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Juvenile Prisons; Plus, Former Secretary Of State Hillary Clinton

With Guest Host John Harwood.

The cold hard facts about juvenile prisons. And the case for shutting them all down. Plus: former Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton is with us.

Youths seen playing basketball through bars on a window at the Wisconsin Department of Corrections Ethan Allen School in Wales, Wis. (AP file)

Youths seen playing basketball through bars on a window at the Wisconsin Department of Corrections Ethan Allen School in Wales, Wis. (AP)

In her new book, Hillary Rodham Clinton describes four years leading the Obama administration’s foreign policy. But now that she’s considering another presidential race, there’s conflict almost everywhere you look. What does that say about America’s leadership – and hers? We’ll ask her. And also: is the nation’s correctional system for juveniles doing any correcting – or making things worse?  Hear the case that we should scrap juvenile prisons completely. This hour, On Point, two big topics: juvenile justice, and Hillary Rodham Clinton.

– John Harwood

Guests

Nell Bernstein, author of “Burning Down the House: The End of Juvenile Prison” and “All Alone in the World: Children of the Incarcerated.” Winner of the White House Champion of Change award for her work on children of the incarcerated. (@nellbernstein)

Jonathan Caudill, assistant professor of criminal justice at California State University, Chico. Worked as a juvenile correctional officer for Texas Youth Commission. His research includes offender management strategies, patrol strategies, and law enforcement organizational changes. (@Objective_Views)

The Reading List

New York Times: A Model for Juvenile Detention Reform — “Solitary confinement, which can lead to mental problems for adults, is especially damaging for children, who are more fragile emotionally.”

The Week: The tragic, maddening failure of America’s juvenile justice system – When you start reading Nell Bernstein’s haunting book about juvenile justice in America, you’ll surely become heartbroken at the ways in which our nation systematically abuses, neglects, tortures, and otherwise ruins the lives of generations of children.

SFGate: ‘Burning Down the House,’ by Nell Bernstein — “For the worst offenders, there may be no viable alternative to confinement. But we could dramatically reduce the amount of abuse and injustice simply by keeping the number of people imprisoned as small as possible.”

Former Secretary Of State Hillary Clinton

Hillary Clinton, former U.S. Secretary of State, former U.S. Senator from New York, former First Lady of the United States. (@hillaryclinton)

Please follow our community rules when engaging in comment discussion on this site.
  • Expanded_Consciousness

    Get it done.

  • Fiscally_Responsible

    On a related topic, regarding the “botched” execution of Joseph Wood in Arizona, I’m sure that he didn’t worry a whole lot about the pain and suffering that his two point blank murder victims went through when he ruthlessly killed them 25 years ago, laughing in court at family members who had to relive the event during his trial. Whatever suffering he went through was well deserved and just a taste of what he inflicted on his victims. Also, those who oppose the death penalty don’t worry about the “cruel and unusual” pain and suffering that unborn babies endure as they have their skulls crushed during the “medical” procedure known as partial birth abortion. Liberals are so clueless.

    • Human2013

      I think this is about Juveniles.

    • nj_v2

      ^ The right wing, once again arguing that, collectively, our standards should be equivalent to the worst among us.

      And “partial-birth abortion” is not a medical term. And abortion is a completely different issue than capital punishment. And none of this has anything to do with juvenile prisons.

    • Ray in VT

      What must it be like to be conservative and be constantly and perpetually on the losing side of issues, but yet so seemingly pompous and self-righteous? Good luck using your super old book to justify the gub’ment getting all up in my wife’s business.

      • Fiscally_Responsible

        When one knows that despite what society thinks about something, that one is right and will ultimately be proved right and that those who oppose Biblical positions will spend eternity regretting their willful rejection of the truth, I can deal with temporary setbacks in this life.

        • Ray in VT

          Care to provide some proof for the Christian myths?

          • Jack

            Is it really necessary to offhandedly dismiss Christianity as “myth” anytime someone mentions religion?

          • JS

            Not why someone mentions religion, but when someone claims it to be the ultimate truth and if you dont believe you will spend eternity in hell.

          • Don_B1

            Fiscally_Responsible
            ————
            Particularly when it is based on a book written by men and containing contradictory messages on many issues.

            Fiscally_Responsible is cherry-picking the parts of the Bible that match what he wants to believe, though he will surely deny it. But he denies parts of the Bible, so what else is new?

          • Ray in VT

            I think that various definitions of myth fairly accurately describe elements of Christianity, as the historical accuracy of many stories at the heart of the Judeo-Christian tradition cannot be factually verified.

            I do think that it has often been the case that Christians, as well as believers in other faiths, have used the term myth to denigrate the beliefs of other groups, but why should the unsubstantiated beliefs of Christians get what I think is the higher treatment of religion vs myth?

          • Jack

            If you are using myth in an academic sense, I can certainly be fine with that, although the only mythological portions of the Bible would be Gen 1-11; the rest of the Genesis narrative would more accurately be categorized as “founder legends” rather than “founder myths.” The rest of the Hebrew Bible, such as it describes history, is more or less history, with varying degrees of interpretive emphasis (e.g., the Deuteronomistic History).

            However, the way in which you seemed to use myth implied more ad hoc rejection, dismissing Fiscally_Responsible’s argument, using “myth” less in an academic sense in more in the popular “fairy tale” sense. Though it would seem counter-intuitive, F_R could simply respond that “the humanist myth isn’t really relevant, either” and we’re no further along in the conversation, hence my objection.

            While I will agree with J_o_h_n and JS that is acceptable to disregard F_R’s argument, I don’t think directly responding to it is beneficial because A) it leads us off topic, B) it opens us to a priori dismissal of each other and limits opportunities for mutual understanding and C) it seems to imply that people who have deeply held Christian beliefs are somehow incompetent or backwards. Ergo, I don’t think it was the wisest course of action,and hence my inquiry.

          • Ray in VT

            Oh, I will be more than upfront in acknowledging that I was attempting elicit a response. I have been told by this individual, on a number of occasions, that I am going to burn in ETERNAL FIRE!!!!. I was sort of hoping to get another one of those.

            I also readily acknowledge that there are quite a number of parts of the Bible that are or may be fairly historical, although perhaps with various inaccuracies or embellishments.

          • Jack

            I’ve always taught my (university-level) students to think of the histories in the Bible not as inaccuracies, but as interpretive choices. History, at least not in the sense we normally think of history, doesn’t begin until Herodotus, and even then it takes another half-millennia before his form of history writing becomes widespread in the western world. Of course, historians still interpret history, just not necessarily with the same interests in mind.

            On the other point you make, I accept that you were attempting to elicit a specific response. Personally, I have never understood the motivation to be concerned about other people in that sense. I have enough to worry about with working out my own salvation that I don’t have enough time left over to be concerned, with you, no offense :)

          • Ray in VT

            My father used to tell me that people were free to go to hell any way they chose. I take that as a sort of live and let live philosophy, which is what I attempt in life. I am not a believer myself, but I try not to give people grief for their beliefs. I may take exception with those beliefs that stand in direct opposition to established facts, but I try to keep it civil. However, when people take swings at me I am not inclined to turn the other cheek. That may not be the best approach, but it is either my nature or my habit.

            Indeed one can’t really fault chroniclers of bygone eras with mixing fact with fable and belief, as it doesn’t really seem to have been a distinction that was made in the pre-modern era. I have heard it remarked that it is ironic that the “father of history” wrote down and passed off as true just about any tale that was told to him. Indeed history is, as one of my professors once told me, a trick played upon the dead by the living (or something like that). Some things are certainly more clear cut, while some motivations or conditions must be arrived at by examining various physical and written accounts that may not be so explicit. I have found it very interesting in Robin Lane Fox’s The Classical World he lays out his take on various events, but acknowledges that differing interpretations exist.

          • Jack

            You are correct that Herodotus wrote down as verifiable fact whatever story he heard and didn’t do much in the way of verification; if memory serves, Tom did a show on Herodotus a year or so ago. I might have to look it up in the archive. It’s always amazed me that people venerate Herodotus like that. I do like the quote from your professor, and will have to remember that for later use.

            Certainly, neither of us is perfect, and I have been known to get hot under the collar more than on occasion. Some might say that my preference for nuance and specificity is a negative trait, so I am hardly in a position to judge. Many of my claimed co-religionists do not feel this way, but I am content, as were the early Christians, to worship my god in peace and quiet while the rest of the world goes mad. There is a certain serenity in not feeling like you have to bludgeon everyone you meet with a theology tome.

          • Ray in VT

            Agreed. I do not see the need that some people have to constantly and loudly promote their religion or beliefs to other, often in a way that denigrates the beliefs of others. I include the “new atheists” in there as well, as they can also be quite annoying. I think of myself as irreligious, although I have been accused of being anti-religions when I have had the nerve to question the beliefs of others, as well as whether or not such beliefs should govern elements of my life.

            Another good one for history is that history a set of agreed upon lies.

          • Jack

            Dawkins and his cohort are every bit the fundamentalists as the anti-intellectuals they oppose. The thing that bothers me most about Dawkins in particular is that he has the nerve to tell me (not directly, mind you) what is and is not good theology (with any being too much); I don’t tell him how to do biology, so he should extend me the same professional courtesy and stop pretending that his methods are applicable to my work. Sorry, that’s not really where you wanted me to go, but just it is one of the things that makes my mind seethe (see not perfect).

            Regarding history, another classic is “history was written by the winners.” True not only of the past, when the victors wrote the history, but of today, when interpretations that don’t garner significant attention get ignored, no matter the merits.

          • Ray in VT

            Feel free to rant. We all have our peeves and axes that we like to grind. I certainly have mine. Dawkins is one of the people whom I specifically had in mind.

            Indeed history does get written by the winners. I have seen in recent years some criticism of aspects of Celtic studies, as much that has been said about the Celts in Gaul in the 1st century B.C.(or E. also if one prefers) was written by Romans, and more specifically Caesar, and they/he had an incentive to portray the Celts badly in order to help justify Rome’s conquest of Gaul. One of the benefits of winning is that he who controls the present can also control the past (in some ways).

          • J__o__h__n

            And modern historians are trying to evaluate and fill in as many of the gaps in that knowledge as it possible. They don’t defensively claim that Caesar is infallible or try to interpret new facts to prop up Caesar’s version.

          • Ray in VT

            New things come to light all of the time. A few years back it was discovered in a part of what is now Austria (I think) that Roman legions fought the “barbarians” there some 100-200 years after supposedly they had totally given up and abandoned that area.

          • J__o__h__n

            Dawkins is not a fundamentalist. There is no biological evidence that we were created by a god. If such evidence were proven, he would accept it. Actual fundamentalists twist reality into knots to make it conform to their preconceptions. Dawkins doesn’t need to be a scholar of myths, legends, and fairy tales to debunk religion. If the underlying foundation is untrue, the details that grew out of it are only a matter of cultural importance.

            Proponents of religion make claims based on science and history and then complain when experts in those fields debunk their claims. These claims are dangerous because this fictitious history and science are used to justify their positions on public policy.

          • Jack

            John, it’s been fun, but I really don’t have the time to tell you how you’re wrong here, so I’m just going to say you’re mistaken and be done with it.

          • Ray in VT

            I also do acknowledge that the whole thread is off topic and that it really is more beneficial to the topic at hand to merely ignore such comments.

          • J__o__h__n

            It isn’t more or less history. The Red Sea did not part. There is no historical evidence of Exodus. There wasn’t a global flood. It is myth. Silly claims of people burning in hell need to be responded to.

          • Jack

            I’ll assume you haven’t studied religion at the undergraduate or post-graduate level and so really aren’t in a position to make those kind of pronouncements. In point of fact, the discussion among academics is significantly more nuanced than “the exodus did not happen,” and if you’re only reading sources that make that claim straight up, then you’re not reading enough quality source. F-R’s comments do not need to be responded to, as evidenced by the fact that since we started having this portion of the conversation he has not attempted to redirect them back towards his initial thesis.

          • J__o__h__n

            I have studied history. Legends and myths may have a grain of historical truth but not enough to make them history. And people who cite them as a source tend to equate them with history and make claims based on them. There is no historical evidence for Exodus. “More or less history, with varying degrees of interpretive emphasis” is not history.

          • Jack

            Pretty much everyone studies history as an undergraduate. I’m simply saying you are probably not as up on the advanced literature as you might think.

          • J__o__h__n

            He made supernatural claims based on the Bible. Pointing out that it that it is a myth is relevant.

        • Don_B1

          What do you think motivated the Founding Fathers to include the Eighth Amendment in the Bill of Rights Amendments to the Constitution?

          Hint: It was to ensure that offenders of all types were treated in a way that would reflect honorably on the United States and its people and prevent revenge-taking which only inflames others who feel that someone was treated unfairly and gives them motivation to take the law into their own hands.

          Just where you are in the spectrum of law enforcement is unknown to me, but it does not seem that you are that far from supporting lynchings, etc.

      • Acnestes

        Conservatives are conceptually destined to always be on the losing side. Life, time, and history are all about change, and conservatives (real ones, anyway, as opposed to the bags and their ilk who though they fancy themselves to be conservatives are actually radicals looking to, “return”, to something that has never actually existed except in old episodes of the Donna Reed Show) are all about resisting change. Time always wins.

        • Ray in VT

          That is sort of what I was getting at. I do find the use of the idealized past, or a harkening back to the “good old days”, to be interesting as it is used when promoting a campaign. One tends to find, of course, that that past never really existed.

          • Acnestes

            Yep. Every society to ever come along has a myth about a Golden Age and it’s always just that. An idealized fantasy.

        • Fiscally_Responsible

          It depends upon whether the change improves a situation or makes it worse. Change, simply for the sake of change, is pointless if it does not improve the situation. And if one finds oneself going down the wrong road, it is better to back up to where one made the wrong turn and then make the correct turn rather than to simply continue on with a foolish decision. History is filled with people such as Hitler, Lenin, etc. who brought radical change to their society, which ended up in destruction.

    • AnneDH

      What does this have to do with juveniles?

      • Fiscally_Responsible

        It had to do with the carrying out of justice, albeit on someone older than a juvenile. It was just in the news yesterday/today.

        • Don_B1

          Your definition, as far as I can determine, of “justice” is really warped beyond recognition in a just society.

    • anamaria23

      It is about who WE are and is our response to heinous crime to be dictated by the criminal or can we and must we respond to a higher calling that the accused did.

    • TFRX

      “Related”?

      Hahahahahaha.

    • StilllHere

      I’m assuming this is related to Hillary and the Vince Foster affair.

  • Human2013

    I recall a judge in Ohio taking kickbacks to give unwarranted sentences to children to enrich himself, but according to FR I’m clueless.

    • Ray in VT

      Why? Are you some sort of librul?

      • John Cedar

        No, I’m a moderate.
        AKA a centrist.
        You are a librul*.

        *It is important to know and note that a librul has nothing to do with being a liberal.

        • Ray in VT

          I do not think that a comparison of many of your stated opinions would stack up well with the established moderates.

          Please inform me as to what a librul is and how I am one.

        • Don_B1

          Anyone who has to use derogatory spellings of words to make them slanderous is a disgrace and not in anyway a “centrist.”

          • John Cedar

            I don’t have to use the feminist spelling. I just do it as a favor for you humorless twits..

        • jefe68

          You consider yourself a moderate?
          That’s pretty funny. But I guess if you were standing next to Ted Cruz one could come to that conclusion.

          • John Cedar

            Shouldn’t you be over at dkos copy, pasting and typing away right now?

            Of course I am a moderate. For instance on the issue of SSM, I support civil unions. That is the exact middle ground between allowing it and not allowing it. AKA moderate.

            On the issue of abortions, I support the right to an abortion up until 12 or 15 weeks. Again a moderate position between extremes.

            I could go on and on…

    • John Cedar

      I recall the kids for cash scandal in PA.
      But you are clueless for bringing up something that is so rare and when it was discovered it was fixed.

      • Human2013

        So rare? Not rare, just undiscovered

        • John Cedar

          If you were talking about voter fraud then you would be 100% correct.
          But in this case you are talking about your own imagination, which has nothing to do with reality.

          • TFRX

            Voter fraud?

            Really, just go away.

          • John Cedar

            Request denied.
            Seems like you ask a lot of people to go away.
            I request that you stay. Every party needs a drunk to entertain us and for us to laugh at and you fill that position well.

          • TFRX

            Keep fellating that “voter fraud” thing. Your efforts are futile, but you seem to enjoy it.

      • fun bobby

        Ohio PA and the one in Texas, starting to sound like a trend

  • John Cedar

    I took in a stray teenager a few years ago who was in the process of being tried for assault against an adult who had picked a fight with him. The kid ended up serving 60 of 90 days and its sad to say but it was the only thing that finally got him to straighten up. He met some NICE friends in there, just like he would at a drug rehab.

    This kid had a lot of heartbreaking stories from his childhood, with two parents who had served time for drug use and petty thievery on several occasions.

    I put him and some of his derelict friends to work on some construction projects and they loved it and kicked butt. But all of them seemed to “think a little differently” about a lot of things.

    • hennorama

      John Cedar — well done, sir.

    • Don_B1

      Unfortunately most juvenile delinquents such as the one you describe do not get the treatment he got.

      It does seem interesting that you can do what you claimed and yet spout such attitudes as you do here on this website.

      • jefe68

        Interesting, and one wonders what is behind all this weirdness that this guy posts.

      • John Cedar

        It is not as if I decry carbon emissions and then fly around on a private jet. Or advocate for taxing others more so that I can spend that money on the poor while I enjoy an opulent lifestyle and pay less taxes than most.

    • StilllHere

      Nice story.
      I’m taking it for what it is, but those inclined to spread mendacity will castigate you as is their plight in life.

  • J__o__h__n

    Hillary Clinton’s new book was a chore to read. She finally admitted her vote authorizing Bush’s Iraq blunder was a mistake, but her consistently hawkish approach to all foreign problems makes this appear to not be an isolated event and that she has not learned from it. She is reckless internationally and too cautious on domestic issues.

    • Ray in VT

      Couldn’t this wait until tomorrow?

      • J__o__h__n

        She is on the show today.

        • Ray in VT

          I see. I just looked at the Juvenile Prisons show title and missed the Plus:. My apologies.

          • J__o__h__n

            I think she didn’t want to wait until Tom gets back. If she couldn’t handle Terry Gross . . .

          • Ray in VT

            Could be. It would seem that a full show would be better suited for her as a guest and topic. Any bets that her presence on the show will garner about 90% of the comments (largely negative)?

          • TFRX

            I think half of that segment will be Nicle Polite Republicanism “giving her the chance to correct herself” (sic) about the crap the mainstream media made up about type of taxes the Clintons paid (after leaving the White House).

            Remember

            Because we pay ordinary income tax, unlike a lot of people who are truly
            well off, not to name names; and we’ve done it through dint of hard
            work

            ?

            She could not have made the difference between people who get a paycheck and those who live off capital gains and “the interest of the interest” any starker.

            And our “mainstream press” just went all Foxfukker on it.

          • nj_v2

            She thought Ms. Gross would be a soft target to use to demonstrate her “toughness.”

          • TFRX

            “She couldn’t handle Terry Gross”?

            I dunno, Gross sorta rolled over for Karl Rove.

            And the problem is that Terry Gross is about the best interviewer NPR has.

  • Steve_in_Vermont

    The complexity of this issue is overwhelming and I don’t believe more resources would make much of a difference. We are focused on “reactive” responses to these young offenders, not the root cause. Society is, again, asking the government to provide the “solution” to this problem. I suggest this “problem” results primarily from a breakdown in society in which, rather than dealing with it personally, we pass this on to the judicial system…….and then complain and blame them when it fails. To paraphrase, “We have met the problem, and it is us”.

    • John Cedar

      The problem must be you. Its not me. I dinnit raise no juvies.

  • Matt MC

    I find it interesting that our view of the relative maturity of a child changes so dramatically based on which crimes or actions we find most offensive individually. For instance, when high school football players rape a young girl at age 17, they are too young to have their lives destroyed by being convicted in adult court, but when the tween girls in Wisconsin commit a more heinous and arguably more reckless and immature (likely, insane) crime (they were trying to impress an imaginary Internet meme), suddenly, they should be tried as adults.

    • John Cedar

      Perhaps if you were a bit brighter you would not try to equate murder with rape. Look at rapes committed by womyn and compare them to those committed by men and you will see that womyn offenders fair better.

      • Matt MC

        Oh, man. I wish I were “bryter,” then I could understand the difference between the very crimes I brought up.

      • TFRX

        I was wondering how many seconds it would take for some asswipe to bring up women and make up crap when it came to rape.

        You win.

        • jefe68

          Speaking of juvenile behavior, this guy has it in spades.

        • John Cedar

          I win
          You lose
          Story of our lives…get used to it.

          Nice potty mouth BTW…

          • TFRX

            I was wondering if you could let it go.

            Apparently not.

          • John Cedar

            Apparently.

    • jefe68

      Philip D. Chism, allegedly raped Danvers High School teacher Colleen Ritzer before murdering her, he was 14 at the time and is being tried as an adult.

  • Guest
    • hennorama

      Go away, Jay/(Un)InformedAmerican/X Y & Z/U.S.S.A./Obamunism 2.0/FYI/”Guest.”

  • Rick Evans

    The juvenile justice system clearly needs major change. However Neil Bernstein’s use of brain science to excuse away vicious behavior by poorly socialized use is pure nonsense.

    If we really knew the relationship between brain physical development and social development we wouldn’t need an Obama brain initiative. What brain science exists, as it relates to behavior, is primitive and largely applies to fairly primitive elements of behavior.

    Think the startled reaction you have to a curly stick in the grass. And, if you think Supreme Court justices are equipped to judge science then you should agree with their decision on Bush v. Gore no matter what side you were on.

    • hennorama

      Rick Evans — Ms. Bernstein’s given name is Nell.

      Is your error explained by brain science?

      • Rick Evans

        It’s a typo. Is your response explained by poor socialization?

        • hennorama

          Rick Evans — thank you for your response.

          A typo is an error.

          My comment is self-explanatory.

          • HonestDebate1

            Schoolmarm.

        • StilllHere

          He/she/it’s all about the insult.

          • hennorama

            Stilllhere — please point out “the insult” in my comment.

  • John_in_Amherst

    Many in the U.S. blow the horn loud and long to the effect that we are #1. Tragically, this includes our incarceration rates. A life-long pattern of recidivism and/or disengagement with civil society at large begins with juvy prison. We owe it to kids in “the system”, indeed, the country in its entirety, to do a thorough review and realignment of our policies and proclivities. More guns and jails are part of the problem, not the solution.

    That we as a nation jail and subsequently disenfranchise a sizable portion of our population is prima fascie evidence of the moral corruption of our society. Together with measures of child welfare, educational achievement, income inequality, obesity, etc., etc., we may well earn the right to claim #1 status – in hubris and hypocrisy.

  • TFRX

    Wow, that’s not a distorted question at all, John Harwood.

  • J__o__h__n

    Hillary Clinton didn’t “inherit two wars” she voted for the Iraq mess.

  • J__o__h__n

    The reset worked until Putin reset it. What an accomplishment.

  • hennorama

    Secretary Clinton — please explain why President Obama and you have not used the magic wands that many seem to believe you possess.

    Many conservatives/Republicans/TEA Shindiggers, and others, point to issues around the world and say “It’s Obama’s fault!” and/or “Clinton failed!,” as if the U.S. has magical powers to change all world events.

    Madame Secretary, why did you and President Obama not use these magical powers?

    • StilllHere

      Obama may call his choom-gang pipe a magic wand, I don’t know. But Hillary’s got a button that she seemed to believe set US foreign policy for her.

  • J__o__h__n

    During the ceasefire that Hillary Clinton achieved, what was accomplished? Why should Hamas not insist on conditions before the ceasefire. (Not that I’m defending Hamas – both sides are to blame.)

  • Ellen Dibble

    I missed some. Did she say how one addresses the Hamas insistence on an end to the state of Israel? Whether through Abbas or Qatar or anyone? It seems like a nonstarter.

  • Guest

    Teen Unemployment in Major U.S. Cities Tops 50 Percent

    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/penny-starr/summertime-blues-teen-unemployment-major-us-cities-tops-50-percent

    Whether or not juvenile prisons close, juvenile crime will go up due to the fact that many young Americans can’t find work, due to the failed policies of Obamanomics.

    • hennorama

      Go away, FYI/”Guest”/(Un)InformedAmerican/X Y & Z/U.S.S.A./Obamunism 2.0/Jay.

    • Ray in VT

      Teens without a high school diploma in 2 cities.

      It seems that it has been the case that people without even a high school diploma have been having an increasingly difficult time finding employment in the United States for some time. How is it that “Obamanomics” is to blame?

      • hennorama

        Ray in VT — as usual, this entity uses specious sources.

        The “analysis” mentioned in the linked article is from an entity called the Employment Policies Institute, which is an arm of Berman and Co., a PR company owned by Richard Berman.

        The first internal link in the “article” goes to the website minimumwage.com, which says this on its “About” page (emphasis added):

        About MinimumWage.com

        MinimumWage.com is a project of the Employment Policies Institute (EPI). Founded in 1991, EPI is a non-profit research organization dedicated to studying public policy issues surrounding employment growth. In particular, EPI focuses on issues that affect entry-level employment.

        In truth, the site is 100% “about” opposing raising the minimum wage.

        Sources:
        http://www.salon.com/2013/11/13/corporate_americas_new_scam_industry_p_r_firm_poses_as_think_tank/

        http://www.minimumwage.com/about/

        • Ray in VT

          I conservative think tank criticizing raising the minimum wage on a conservative site. That doesn’t exactly seem like fair and balanced reporting.

          I did find it interesting that so far this year employment has grown faster in states that have this year raised the minimum wage than in states that have not. Of course this does not prove that raising the minimum wage created that outcomes, but it would seem to counter the argument that raising the minimum wage will produce catastrophic employment outcomes.

          • hennorama

            Ray in VT — TYFYR.

            In contrast to [Debates?NotHe] above, you provide a factual comment, and do not fall into the definitive cause/effect trap.

            For anyone who is unaware of what you wrote about, this site provides a graphic, using data from the BLS:

            http://www.cepr.net/index.php/blogs/cepr-blog/2014-job-creation-in-states-that-raised-the-minimum-wage

          • HonestDebate1

            O jeez, get me out of your head.

          • warryer

            Employment may have already been growing in those states regardless of minimum wage status.

            I would be interested in seeing what the inflation rates in those states who have artificially raised minimum wage looks like.

            Raising the minimum wage doesn’t mean the market all of a sudden more highly values minimum wage work. It’s artificial.

          • Ray in VT

            I think that I readily acknowledged that I was not suggesting, nor have the pieces that I have read on the subject, that the greater job growth was connected to increases in the minimum wage.

            What would an “artificially raised minimum wage” be, considering that the minimum wage is itself an artificial construct, as would be things such as legally mandated safety or non-discrimination policies.

            Despite years of warnings regarding runaway inflation due to Fed policy, those predictions of doom and gloom have yet to materialize. One would think that in places where there have been often small increases in the minimum wage ($7.80 to $7.90 in Arizona for instance) that inflation there would not be more affected.

            Just about everything that takes place in what one might call “civilization” is artificial.

        • HonestDebate1

          Study after study shows that minimum wage hikes hurt the poor and kill entry level jobs. Any advocate for young entry level employment should oppose a minimum wage hike. If EPI supported such a hike they would not be credible.

          • Ray in VT

            Study after study also shows that raising the minimum wage helps many poor people, and a variety of studies also have reported that it can actually be a benefit to employment. But feel free to ignore those, as they do not conform to the narrative that you want to push.

          • HonestDebate1

            Sure they do Ray, sure they do.

          • Ray in VT

            Yes they do, but if it serves your willful ignorance to pretend that such things do not exist, then that is your right to be as ignorant as is humanly possible. Don’t let facts and research trouble your feeble mind.

    • hennorama

      The entity FYI/”Guest”/(Un)InformedAmerican/X Y & Z/U.S.S.A./Obamunism 2.0/Jay flees again.

      Good riddance.

  • Guest

    Hillary says she won’t turn over Benghazi notes

    http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/10/hillary-says-she-wont-turn-over-benghazi-notes/

    “The only people who don’t want to disclose the truth are those with something to hide.”
    Barack Obama

    • hennorama

      FYI/”Guest”/InformedAmerican/X Y & Z/U.S.S.A./Obamunism 2.0/Jay — please “disclose the truth” that you use/have used all of the aforementioned monikers.

    • StilllHere

      Sorry, we’re going to ignore Hillary and her comments and focus on you.

      • Ray in VT

        How can we just stand by while she continues to coverup for the massive scandal/conspiracy that is Benghazi and the administration’s coverup?

    • TFRX

      A day doesn’t go by wihtout someone trying to fluff the limpness that’s Tucker the Fncker.

  • time2wakeup

    Clinton: ‘I think the Russian Reset worked.’
    Yeah, it really worked well, but only for Russia.

    • hennorama

      time2wakeup — how’d this comment work for you?:

      time2wakeup [-->]Georgia Devinshire • 6 days ago

      23 dead AMERICANS.

      Source:
      http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/18/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/index.html#comment-1491351655

      • Ray in VT

        I think that it is a disgrace that your president is out a fundraising in the wake of that plane that went down in Taiwan, not to mention the Algerian jet that disappeared. I mean Reagan would have gotten back to the Oval Office so fast you’d have thought that he teleported. I mean he went back to D.C. and addressed the nation immediately* after the Korean plane went down in 1983.

        *Immediately: an amount of time roughly equivalent to 4 days.

        • hennorama

          Ray in VT — TYFYR.

          Yes, I know.

          MyPresident Obama of course must halt all other activity whenever there is a downed aircraft, and “23 dead Americans” must be avenged. Of course, since the downing of the Malaysian airliner is (my) President Obama’s fault, that implies seppuku, or whatever is native Kenyan ritualized suicide is called.

          President-Saint Reagan was heartbroken over the downing of the Korean airliner cutting his vacation short:

          Reagan wrote this in his diary that evening: “We were due to return to Wash. on Labor Day but realized we couldn’t wait so we left on Fri. It was heartbreaking. I had really looked forward to those last three days. When we got in Fri, I went directly to a NSC (National Security Council) meeting re the Soviet affair.”

          See:
          http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/jul/21/kate-obenshain/did-reagan-really-rush-back-dc-after-korean-plane-/

        • HonestDebate1

          If you want to compare Obama favorably to Reagan you will come out looking like a fool.

          • StilllHere

            A bigger one …

          • TFRX

            Ronald “Don’t wanna interrupt my vacay during a crisis” Reagan?

    • StilllHere

      Sorry, talking about her record is not allowed, let’s talk about you.

  • HerculesLoadmaster

    I don’t understand how Americans can register as a Democrat anymore and say they are concerned about our country.

  • Guest

    Hillary called Obama ‘incompetent and feckless’ in boozy rant

    http://nypost.com/2014/06/27/hillary-called-obama-a-joke-at-lunch-with-pals-book/

    • hennorama

      “Guest” called “completely clueless and cowardly” in accurate description.

      Source: the preceding.

      • HonestDebate1

        Ed Klein’s book is credible IMO and has not been refuted. It’s a best seller. Hillary’s book tanked. We know she likes her booze and we know she is no fan of Obama.

  • Guest

    Hillary Clinton: ‘Most Important Thing I Did Was to Help Restore America’s Leadership Around the World’

    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/penny-starr/hillary-clinton-most-important-thing-i-did-was-help-restore-america-s

    Chinese General Says U.S. Foreign Policy Has ‘Erectile Dysfunction’ Problems

    http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2014/06/02/chinese-general-says-u-s-foreign-policy-has-erectile-dysfunction-problems/

    • hennorama

      “Guest”: ‘Most Important Thing I Did Was to [Troll] Around the World’

      http://www.trollcentral.org/completely-clueless-cowardly-fool

      ["Guest"] Says [He] Has ‘Erectile Dysfunction’ Problems

      http://blogs.guesttroll.com/true-confessions

    • StilllHere

      On behalf of this board, I would like to apologize to you for how you have been targeted by pointless attacks for your worthwhile contributions. This is the burden that comes with free speech but, unfortunately, there will be those who will abuse it and resort to unsolicited name-calling.

      • TFRX

        “On behalf of this board”?

        Who died and left you in charge of anything?

  • Pleiades

    Former Secretary of State Clinton’s assessment of the Russian/US relations re-set is correct in being applied to events while she was in the office of Secretary of State. Much has taken place since her departure that is out of her control and has led to the events we see today.

    She needs to exercise caution in how she communicates events. One would think she would have learned that lesson with the press in the 2008 election.

    • J__o__h__n

      She said during the first term during the interview. Of course covering your ass and saying that it isn’t your fault for events shortly after your tenure doesn’t speak much for any accomplishments. Reset button – gone. Gaza ceasefire – gone.

      • Pleiades

        The situation in Gaza is directly related the killing of three Israeli teenagers and the revenege killing of a Palestinian teenager moreso than anything President Clinton did or did not do during her time in office. She has been out of office since 2013, and the speed of current events moves quickly.

    • TFRX

      “She needs to exercise caution in how she communicates”?

      I would submit that this warning applies to all Democrats.

      I remember 2000 and 2004, where the unaligned press couldn’t stop making shit up about Al Gore and John Kerry, at which point several “savvy” people said “Why does Al Gore (or Kerry) continue to say things which Fox and Drudge spin and excrete out? Why don’t the Dems handle the press better?”

      It got to the point where there was no winning with these Dems and the media. That any utterance was ready to be molded into some bullshit “gaffe”.

      • HonestDebate1

        You crack me up!

        • Pleiades

          I’m here to help!

  • J__o__h__n
  • Guest

    ‘Obama’s allowed his hatred for his enemies to screw him the way Nixon did.’ – Hillary Clinton

    http://nypost.com/2014/06/27/hillary-called-obama-a-joke-at-lunch-with-pals-book/

    • hennorama

      ‘['Guest"]‘s allowed his hatred for [Obama] to screw him the way Nixon did.’ – Vast Majority

    • StilllHere

      It’s interesting to get Hillary’s perspective of him.

      Meanwhile, Obamapologists will target you.

  • Joshua Evans

    Why didn’t you give the whole show to Juvenile Prisons?

  • crtum

    John Harwood is awful. If you bother to ask a guest on a show, why not let him talk.

  • Christopher Durgin

    The real problem is a historic one. The continuous dumbing down and pacification of the American family. 40-50 years ago no one batted an eye when a parent physically disciplined their children. Spare the rod, spoil the child ring a bell? I wasn’t “beaten”, but I sure KNEW when I had crossed the line. If we weren’t so damn PC these days and actually stood up to the idle (I’m gonna call DHS) threats from our children the world would be a much better place when they’re adults.

  • HonestDebate1

    Why on earth is Hillary even being considered for 2016? We know from the Rose Law Firm billing records debacle she is corrupt. We know she is nasty as hell, just look at Billy Dale. We know she is a horrible role model for women by her being Bill’s doormat. She actually attacked Bill’s victims (libs usually don’t like that) and stood by him. We know she is a liar from her tall tales of snipers, Mt. Everest and the stupid video. We know she was failure at Secretary of State, the Russian reset was a joke and our Ambassador was murdered after begging her for security. She should not be celebrated. She is a corrupt, nasty, lying, incompetent doormat.

  • TFRX

    Liked for the whole take on Cahill, and also that these two subjects really shouldn’t be shoehorned into on e hour combined.

  • fun bobby

    if we end the prohibition of drugs this problem and many others goes away

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