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Why Come North? A Panel Discussion On U.S. Immigration Policy

With Guest Host John Harwood.

Crisis at the US border. What do Latinos on this side of the border have to say? We’ll ask our special  roundtable.

In this Saturday, July 12, 2014, photo, migrants walk along train tracks and boxcars after getting off a train during their journey toward the US-Mexico border, in Ixtepec, southern Mexico. (AP)

In this Saturday, July 12, 2014, photo, migrants walk along train tracks and boxcars after getting off a train during their journey toward the US-Mexico border, in Ixtepec, southern Mexico. (AP)

With so much conflict elsewhere, the crisis on America’s southern border has been shoved offstage in recent days. But Washington still has no new plan for the surge of unaccompanied children arriving from Central America – much less a new immigration policy overall. Can we find an approach combining order and compassion? We’ll ask a reporter, an immigration lawyer, a former Bush administration official, and community activist in Los Angeles, who was one of those unaccompanied minors 15 years ago. This hour, On Point: seeking answers on immigration.

- John Harwood

Guests

Alan Gomez, immigration reporter for USA Today. (@alangomez)

Fermin Vasquez, communications specialist at Community Coalition. (@fermin101)

José Cárdenas, associate in the consulting firm Visión Américas. Former career US Diplomat. (@JoseCardenasUSA)

Claudia Valenzuela, associate director of litigation for the National Immigrant Justice Center.

From The  Reading List

USA Today: Some cities open arms to children caught on the border — “Federal law requires that children be placed in protective care while their immigration cases are resolved. And while Christie was critical of the Obama administration for failing to secure the border and allowing for that flood of children, he said his office would consider any request from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services to house the children in his state.”

 The Wall Street Journal: Crossings Trigger Anti-Immigration Rallies – “Since October, about 57,000 unaccompanied minors have entered the country illegally, many fleeing poverty and violence or hoping to reunite with family in the U.S. The flow slowed this week, but reports of migrants swarming the border and being transported to towns in the country’s interior have attracted new supporters of grass-roots organizations that fight illegal immigration.”

POLITICO: Mitch McConnell: No ‘throwing money’ at border –”McConnell suggested that in order to calm the chaotic situation that has thousands of adults and unaccompanied minors traveling from Central America and across the U.S.-Mexico border, the border needs to be secured. ‘It’s very, very simple,’ McConnell said. ‘If word got out that you’d be humanely detained and immediately returned, it would stop. It doesn’t require massive amounts of federal assistance that the president has asked for.’”

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  • Eris

    I hope the discussion does not focus only on the immigrant’s from Central America and Mexico. Without doubt there are many other regions of the world where you would find many desperate populations that would gladly risk everything to emigrate to a better life in the US. From Africa, Asia, to Eastern Europe you could expect millions of families that would like nothing better than to start life in a first world country. Our southern neighbour’s have only their proximity to us, a land bridge and a long porous border which explains why these events are unfolding particularly this way. We all can agree if we had a border shared with Africa, Ukraine, etc., we would see a different demographic. Interjecting fairness and charity into the argument is redirecting the debate and mischaracterizing the opponents of an open border. The question boils down to how many we can help, when it is too much and at what point will we become unable to assimilate this new demographic.

    • rfra20

      Yes the problem isn’t unique to the US. I’m in Italy for the summer and a
      day doesn’t go by without a news report of authorities salvaging a
      disabled vessel in the Mediterranean left stranded with hundreds of
      migrants on board (typically with corpses as well). Clearly things have to be pretty bad when
      masses of people are willing to risk their lives to get away from where
      they are. I’m not sure this
      can be solved without addressing the real issue, which is living
      conditions at the origin. Not a simple fix to this problem but maybe at some point we have to stop tolerating regimes that are so corrupt and incompetent that large parts of their population feel the need to flee….

  • Guest

    The illegal aliens are flooding into America because the corrupt and incompetent Obama regime is encouraging them to.

    • AC

      you’re sort of pointless….

      • nj_v2

        Sort of?

      • Fiscally_Responsible

        You may not agree with his point, but he is certainly not pointless. He could have articulated it more forcefully, which I will do. The Obama Administration has taken the skills that it has honed in failing to protect our embassy personnel in Bengazi and applied them to our border, letting tens of thousands of illegal immigrants cross the border. Then it gives away the store in terms of free medical care, food, lodging, education, etc. to entice them to come over. Then people wonder why it is happening. Duh!

        • TFRX

          More forcefully?

          That’s like going from “faking rabies with shaving cream” to real rabies.

          Seriously, I’ve seen rabid animals who know more about this than you do. Please stick to your crap about abortion.

          • Fiscally_Responsible

            It’s unfortunate that you are so intolerant and insulting of viewpoints that don’t agree with yours. And yes, I do find it extremely hypocritical that lefties like you are so ok with the murderous act of abortion but so accommodating of people who are streaming across our border illegally. But then, that’s how liberals are.

          • TFRX

            You really know less about liberals than you do about immigration, Benghazi, and womens’ healthcare.

            Please take your projection and project somewhere else.

          • Ray in VT

            “”Boy, these conservatives are really something, aren’t they? They’re all in favor of the unborn. They will do anything for the unborn. But once you’re born, you’re on your own. Pro-life conservatives are obsessed with the fetus from conception to nine months. After that, they don’t want to know about you. They don’t want to hear from you. No nothing. No neonatal care, no day care, no head start, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothing. If you’re preborn, you’re fine; if you’re preschool, you’re f**ked.” – George Carlin.

          • AC

            i just wrote the same thing!!

          • Ray in VT

            It does seem to be odd how seemingly a fairly large number of those who are against abortion are against efforts to improve the quality of life of those who have been born, or who deride the providing of immigrants, some of whom could be called refugees, with some sort of basic food, shelter or medical care. Perhaps they should be left on the street to suffer because they don’t have papers.

          • Fiscally_Responsible

            We believe in people being responsible for their actions including funding the raising of their own children.

          • Ray in VT

            Just force the people to have kids that they can’t afford and then criticize them for not being able to afford them? Awesome. I guess that if parents are poor then the children should suffer poverty, neglect, a lack of access to health care, etc. Very family values.

          • Don_B1

            It really sets up that “level field” of equal opportunity that they are so adamant about!

            But tell them that they have to accept a random selection of their parents and they change their tune.

          • Ray in VT

            Why don’t kids just take the personal responsibility to choose better off parents?

          • Don_B1

            Like every human, they probably could, but …

            Then there is this interesting take on Paul Ryan’s budgets, a must read:

            http://www.newrepublic.com/article/118726/paul-ryans-budget-would-hurt-low-income-americans-not-reduce-poverty

            They just don’t seem to understand that we are all in this together, not just those that have wealthy parents who are able to ensure they get off on the “right foot.”

          • TFRX

            Gonna go all retroactive on this?

            Cos baby boomers got a lot of stuff from goverment.

            There’s a parallel line on your thought process (sic) with “modern libertarianism”, which states that well-enough-off Americans whose grandparents were able to retire because of SocSec, and whose parents were educated at public univs (often thru the GI Bill), and may be looking forward to a nest egg which exists because of Medicare, magically say “Well, I got here myself”.

          • AC

            this is a tandem, but this is a point on abortion i’ve heard mentioned briefly and i think it fits in right here. there is a diff between ‘pro-life’ and ‘pro-birth’. TFRX as a liberal is actually pro-LIFE, meaning they are respecting the existence of a human minor in need. i think people who espouse ‘abortion is murder’ are actually pro-BIRTH. in fact, quite often the people slashing family services and aid to those most in need. ‘the lord helps him who helps himself’ i guess.
            do you agree or disagree?

          • AC

            i called you ‘pro-life’ in a post below, but dont be mad. i think pro-choice people should take back ‘pro-life’. prolifer’s are really only pro-birth….

          • Ray in VT

            I am not vouching for the absolute accuracy of the claims made in this quote, and it does come from a partisan source, but I think that it generally on the right track:

            “Republicans are definitely pro-birth (they’ll do everything they can to make sure that that baby comes out, regardless of how it got in), but are they pro-life?

            “Can you be pro-life and vote to cut funding that supports the life of a child? Paul Ryan’s cut-at-all-costs budget and philosophy, which 100 percent of the pro-life Republicans voted for, would gut the funding that supports at-risk babies and children: food stamps, temporary assistance to needy families, day care, Head Start, early childhood education, children’s health care.” – former Michigan Governor Jennifer Granholm.

          • William

            Everything I read showed Ryan’s budget only slowed the growth in spending which is a reasonable and necessary idea.

          • Ray in VT

            The question is how would the growth be slowed? By favoring military spending and gutting social spending? Could be. “Right wing social engineering” I think Newt Gingrich called it.

          • TFRX

            Gawd, that’s some weak sauce.

          • StilllHere

            Exactly, and slowing the growth was characterized as a cut by tax ‘n spenders and those who benefit from multigenerational government dependency.

          • TFRX

            I think the term “forced birther” covers those who call themselves pro “life”.

            But then I also think that the “moderate” (sic) position of letting (sic) a woman have an abortion because of “rape or incest” is still a half-assed gambit where people insert themselves between a woman and her doctor, and get treated by the press like they’re doing womenfolk a favor by comfortably telling women “you’re a slut unless you prove otherwise”.

          • John Cedar

            You don’t think, you are just spew emotional contempt for one viewpoint.

            The “forced birth” is not “forced” until after the decision to procreate was made by the womyn.. Even if the womyn wants to commit infanticide, by bringing a doctor and the exchange of money for services into the equation, by librul default and precedent in all matters, commerce and medical care is open to any regulation that the mob rule sees fit.

            The same myopic shallow librul side who believes it is a crime against womyn’s rights to restrict a womyn from hiring a doctor to kill the fetus that she chose to create, has no problem forcing fatherhood and indentured servitude on men, not just for nine months, but until the chil’ren are 21 years old. Not only does a father have no choice in the matter after ejaculation, but he can be imprisoned if he does not work and pay his child support.

            In fact, the male does not even have to have sexual intercourse but can still be forced to be a father:

            http://uptownmagazine.com/2014/02/woman-used-sperm-oral-sex-get-pregnant-get-child-support/

          • Ray in VT

            Some of your funniest stuff yet. Not as good as the Holocaust denial stuff from a while back, but still hilarious.

          • TFRX

            “Infanticide” for an embryo?

            “Kill the fetus”? I thought it was a bayyybeeeee!

            “Indentured servitude on men”?

            Hahahahaha.

            Go away, troll.

          • Don_B1

            So the country needs to pass laws that force a woman to never see a man in private until she is married and then never see any other man except in the presence of her husband?

            Sounds like Sharia Law to me.

            [As to your UpTown link, what was the doctor doing having an affair anyway?]

          • keltcrusader

            You are just a horrible excuse for a male of the human species. I am glad to see that you are the exception rather than the rule – so says this WOMAN!

          • John Cedar

            I know you probably have lots of opinions about politics and abortions…and I think that’s adorable…I really do, but the men are talking here, so please mind your manners and stay out of it.

          • keltcrusader

            You are a “Man”? Really?? Not in my book, bub!

            And don’t tell me to sit this out, my father taught me to stand up and speak for my beliefs and he is a much better man than you could ever hope to be.

          • John Cedar

            It seems your abusive father played a cruel joke on you and you should have listened to your momma instead. He was like the fathers of those American Idol contestants who allow their little darlings to be humiliated on national television, when they actually sing like nails on a chalkboard. Your daddy did a disservice to you, by not emphasizing “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.”.

            Maybe you should reconsider if by speaking “your beliefs” he meant you should simply make irrelevant insults toward the people you disagree with.

          • keltcrusader

            Try re-reading your post and then go look in a mirror. The fool here is the one looking back at you.

          • Fiscally_Responsible

            Actually, the proper term is “pro-personal responsibility” including the birth and financial provision for their children instead of taking the easy ways out through either having an abortion or sloughing off the responsibility of providing for them by putting them on a train bound for the U.S.A.

          • Ray in VT

            It seems to me that not having a kid that one can’t properly provide for is pro personal responsibility.

            If you were in the position of having your children murdered by violent street gangs would you stick it out, or try a hail mary to get them to a better place, even if it is away from you in another country?

          • TFRX

            Hahahahaha.

            Having an abortion is “the easy way out”.

            Really, just keep embarrassing yourself.

  • Yar

    What does it mean to be an American? Is it religion; genetics; a birthright; race? We are a tribal people, our tribes are defined by political party, race, religion, country of origin, even occupation. We are also a country of laws, so I propose a simple blood test on these children to prove they are American. In the news this week the DNA of Clovis child, a 12,600 year old boy found in Montana that has mitochondrial DNA of many native Americans. Tribal courts can apply the Indian Child Welfare Act to accept children into their tribe. This is a little like the law passed in Nebraska in 2008 where any parent could drop off a child in healthcare facility no questions asked. It was intended for infants yet 35 parents of older children and teens showed up in emergency rooms to terminate their parental responsibilities. It takes a desperate parent to throw their child over a wall. We must respond with compassion, or we are not Americans.
    http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2014/07/22/clovis-boy-reburied

    • Human2013

      I tracked a maternal grandfather to a 1700 Bridgewater, MA census and still make no claims about this being my “homeland”. Borders are imaginery lines and I can’t see them being revelant a century from now – good riddens.

  • Guest

    Is the ’roundtable’ that On Point has assembled for this pro-illegal immigration show going to mention that a significant number of the illegal aliens who have come here are MS-13 gang members? Don’t count on it.

    • Ray in VT

      Perhaps you can provide some numbers as to how many MS-13 gang members you think are coming here, or perhaps you can mention how the gang started here and exported violence to the areas from which people are now fleeing.

      Upon what basis do you judge the show to be “pro-illegal immigration”?

      • jefe68

        Perhaps we can look into on how the US has been complicit in the destabilization of El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, and Panama to name a few Central American countries that have been under our sphere of influence for over a century.

        • Don_B1

          Ray in VT

          Willful ignorance is a real downer!

          Anyone can check out the facts* but “Guest” is apparently just here to make false statements and provoke intolerance.

          *See Wikipedia:

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-13

          Mara Salvatrucha (commonly abbreviated as MS, Mara, and MS-13) is a transnational criminal gang that originated in Los Angeles and has spread to other parts of the United States, Canada, Mexico, and Central America.[4] The majority of the gang is ethnically composed of Central Americans and active in urban and suburban areas. In the U.S., the MS-13 has an especially heavy presence in Los Angeles County and theSan Francisco Bay Area in Northern California; the Washington, D.C. metropolitan areas of Fairfax County, Virginia, Montgomery County, Maryland, and Prince George’s County, Maryland; Long Island, New York; the Boston, Massachusetts area; Charlotte, North Carolina; and Houston, Texas. There is also a presence of MS-13 in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

          Originally, the gang’s main purpose was to protect Salvadoran immigrants from other, more established gangs of Los Angeles, who were predominantly composed of Mexicans and African-Americans.[10]

          Many Mara Salvatrucha gang members from the Los Angeles area have been deported after being arrested.[11] Namely, Jose Abrego, a high-ranking member, was deported four times.[12] As a result of these deportations, members of MS have recruited more members in their home countries. TheLos Angeles Times contends that deportation policies have contributed to the size and influence of the gang both in the United States and in Central America.[11] According to the 2009 National Gang Threat Assessment, “The gang is estimated to have 30,000 to 50,000 members and associate members worldwide, 8,000 to 10,000 of whom reside in the United States.”

          • Ray in VT

            That is a lot easier than research and facts.

      • HonestDebate1

        Only 20% are children and pregnant mothers.

        • Ray in VT

          Yet it has been the kids who have provoked the current to do. Supposedly the unaccompanied minors are Obama’s fault, just like everything else.

          • HonestDebate1

            “The buck stops with you” -President Obama

          • Ray in VT

            He probably got the women pregnant too. It’s a part of his revenge. I forget that everything is the President’s fault …. when the President is a Democrat.

          • nj_v2

            “The crap never stops with me.”
            —DisHonestMisDebatorGreggg

          • Ray in VT

            Comment section diarrhea. It just spills out in a constant stream.

  • Markus6

    I’ll pass on this show today. The panel looks like it’s filled with advocates. There’ll be lots of emotion, one-sided arguments, hints about racism and out of date references (“we’re a country of immigrants”).

    Two things that won’t be on the program.

    What are the real costs? Unemployment, health care, schools, environmental damage (per capita we pollute at approx 8X of the source countries). One governor said they won’t cost us anything because the federal government is paying. I’m guessing he’s a democrat.

    How will this increase immigration. It’s a very loud message to the tens of billions who are impoverished across the globe. I don’t blame them, but we’re only seeing a trickle compared to what we will see.

    • Ed75

      Also the number of crimes committed against Texans by illegal aliens – 600,000 I heard? 80% of people indicted for murder in Phoenix are illegal aliens? People in gangs entering the country, people from the Middle East going to Central America and traveling north. Lots of real dangers.

      • TFRX

        Really?, you? heard?

        Nice? Cavutomarking? pretending? you’re? asking? something? while? actually? stating? it?

        • AC

          what’s Cavutomarking?

          • TFRX

            It’s where someone puts a question mark at the end of a statement full of unsupported bullshit and pretends they’re still open-minded and innocently exploring a subject, rather than propagating bullshit.

            It’s a specialty of Neil Cavuto at Fox. (Related: On the internet it’s called JAQing, because the troll says “I’m Just Asking Questions”.)

          • Don_B1

            Notably perpetrated on the On Point site by [Dis]HonestDebate1.

          • Human2013

            Is Cavuto Hispanic?

        • Ed75

          That’s funny. I did hear it on Fox, but one wonders how anyone could make a real estimate. There was a report about six months ago which reported that Middle Eastern people were found coming across the border, though. And the facilities just can’t handle this number of people, it seems to me.

          • TFRX

            So the lack of a real estimate = Pull numbers out yer butt.

            Reliable, indeed.

      • Ray in VT

        This suggests that such an 80% claim can’t be supported by available evidence, but perhaps there is some out there:

        http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/fact-check/2014/07/07/az-fact-check-huppenthal-crimes-illegal-immigrants/12301119/

      • nj_v2

        “Ed75″ demurs “600,000 I heard?”

        Well, if “Ed75″ “heard” it, that’s good enough for me!

        “The overall picture of immigrants and crime remains confused due to a lack of good data and contrary information.…

        This report explores the question of immigration and crime and finds that there is very little conclusive data to inform the well-entrenched views on both sides of the debate. We reviewed the major academic and government reports on the topic and found that these studies lead to contrary conclusions about immigration and crime. Moreover, the crime or incarceration data that do exist often are of limited value because they are unrepresentative in some way. It is also difficult to conclude much about crime associated with legal immigrants versus illegal immigrants.…

        http://cis.org/ImmigrantCrime

      • jefe68

        I heard that the devil was down in Texas by way of Mexico as well. Hide your women folk and children!

        • Ray in VT

          I thought that he went down to Georgia?

          • jefe68

            There as well…

          • Jack

            He also came back to Georgia after ten long years…

          • Ray in VT

            Was that after he cheated Jesus at a game of cards?

          • Jack

            I don’t know about that. I was just keeping the theme going by referencing “Devil Comes Back to Georgia” by Mark O’Connor: http://youtu.be/JZPpO8LNW3I.

        • Ed75

          Wascawy devil.

    • TFRX

      You forgot the Saint Ronnie tough manlyman crackdown amnesty.

      http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128303672

    • AC

      listen; i think you have points here, but i view this not as an immigration issue but a human rights crises. i can’t understand why the countries of origin, and it’s leaders, for these children are not being ridiculed and called to task. what the hell kind of ineffectual leadership is going on in these places? i haven’t heard not one statement from the country of origin!? where is the UN?
      i hazard a guess they themselves are corrupted…the entire world should be shaming the leaders of those countries….

      • jefe68

        You might want to read up on the history of Central America. Start with the late 19th ad early 20th century banana republics and work your way to the present. The US has been knee deep in this regions politics for over a century.

        • TFRX

          To quote Archer, “Guatemala’s democratically elected government isn’t going to overthrow itself!”

          • Ray in VT

            Not as long as we’re around.

          • TFRX

            PS I also know the history of United Fruit. And it has nothing to do with any parade or underground bars.

          • Ray in VT

            Well, we can’t just stand by and let another country compensate an American company for lands that are being redistributed to the people of a country so that they can have a place to live, grow crops and earn a living. How is that good for American bid’ness?

          • jefe68

            Exactly, we can’t wash our hands of the roots of all of this.

          • Ray in VT

            Can’t we just agree to blame Obama and move on?

          • jefe68

            Benghazi! IRS!

          • Ray in VT

            Plus the other 4 or 5 Watergates that he has had.

          • jefe68

            Obama has a lot of gates…

          • Ray in VT

            Which his background as African American has made it easier for him to pass through.

          • podmanic

            Oh lord…this is what we’ve come to. Jesus wept.

          • Ray in VT

            I was joking, just so you know, as some have suggested that Mr. Obama’s race has been an asset in his rise to the White House.

          • podmanic

            There is a term for that kind of humor that escapes me at the moment…but you were too close to the reality for me to pick up the subtlety. It’s a testament to where the discussion has gotten to today. Thanks for clarifying.

          • Ray in VT

            You’re welcome. Satire is one term that comes to mind. I do occasionally run afoul of people who haven’t seen enough comments to get that I’m not being serious. Maybe we can get an emoji for it or something.

          • podmanic

            It’s a subset if satire: using deliberately racist/sexist/whatever language to belittle those who use it seriously. I only learned the term last week, but at my age…say WHA?

          • Ray in VT

            I don’t know if I’ve heard that one. Mocking is probably closer to what my comment was than satire.

          • TFRX

            Ray, I have commanded the social media gods to abstractly convert this pic of “Stephen Colbert pointing at his one black friend” into an emoji.

          • Ray in VT

            I heard someone say once that the only thing worse than having no black friends seems to be having one black friend, as seemingly just about everyone who comes out with some really offensive statement against black people always seems to go to the defense that they can’t be racist because they have a black friend.

          • Human2013

            And they thought Banana Republic was a luxury retailer with a jungle theme

        • AC

          this is odd considering the BRIC club meetings…the rest of south america is trying to grab pres. Jinping’s attention too…

          • jefe68

            Odd? The show is about the huge increase of children, women, and adolescents coming from Central America. Particularly Honduras and Guatemala.
            I’m talking about Central America and how the it’s history has been tied to the US and our sphere of influence and control. Where do think the term Banana Republic comes from?

          • AC

            i think i do need to do some reading on s america. too many gaping holes in my knowledge….

          • Ray in VT

            Many of us do. You are far from alone. There’s a ton of information out there and only so much time.

          • Don_B1

            Include the writing of Isabelle Allende, and her nonfiction work, Paula.

            There is a review of U.S. policy in South America in the current issue of Foreign Affairs, which you can buy at the bookstore or online as a PDF:

            July/August 2014

            Volume 93, Number 4

            What Really Happened in Iran

            Ray TakeyhConventional wisdom about the 1953 coup in Iran rests on the myth that the CIA toppled the country’s democratically elected prime minister. In reality, the coup was primarily a domestic Iranian affair, and the CIA’s impact was ultimately insignificant.

            What Really Happened in Congo

            Stephen R. WeissmanNewly available evidence shows that the CIA engaged in pervasive political meddling and paramilitary action in Congo during the 1960s — and that the local CIA station chief directly influenced the events that led to the death of Patrice Lumumba, the country’s first democratically elected prime minister.

            What Really Happened in Chile

            Jack DevineThe 1973 coup in Chile is often included in indictments of U.S. covert action during the Cold War, during which the United States, at the direction of a number of presidents, sometimes took actions of questionable wisdom to prevent or reverse the rise of leftists who Washington feared might lead their countries into the Soviet orbit. In truth, the CIA did not plot with the Chilean military to overthrow Allende.

            What Really Happened in Bangladesh

            Harold H. Saunders

            In 1971, the Pakistani government orchestrated a brutal military crackdown against the Bengali population in East Pakistan — while the United States stuck by its ally Pakistan. Gary Bass’s new book spotlights the “significant complicity” of U.S. President Richard Nixon and his national security adviser, Henry Kissinger, in this “forgotten genocide.”

            http://www.foreignaffairs.com/issues/2014/93/4

            While none of these directly apply to Guatemala or El Salvador, the policy motives, etc., are not that different, just the actual players. And they will give you an idea of the negative “externalities” of the Cold War.

            There are also reviews of two books on a pair of brothers that created and/or influenced policy during that time, the Dulleses (John Foster and Allen) and the Bundys (McGeorge and William), which can be read free online.

          • jefe68

            Central, not South. There is a huge difference, and South American is a huge continent. For instance, there are some nations with very few indigenous people. Such as Argentina which has a total population of almost 40 million. out of that about 600,000 claim to have indigenous roots. Indigenous peoples in Venezuela represent 2.2% of the national population.
            Compare that with Guatemala’s indigenous population, which is 60% of the country’s total population and you can see how there are huge differences in these regions.

          • AC

            i was thinking about retiring in Argentina someday…i’ve only traveled there for fun, not business so i guess i saw the tourist version….

        • Human2013

          Continue on with the treatment of workers building the Panama Canal

      • Markus6

        No disagreement

      • AnneDH

        Good question: Where is the UN?

        • Human2013

          The UN is only available to protect European interests in Africa

      • Don_B1

        It is basically the kind of leadership that Republicans hope to establish here in the “good ole USA.”

        No support for the safety net, no support for anti-discrimination measures, and police actions by SWAT units, with private militia groups running rampant on their own agendas.

        • AC

          …this scares me…..say it isn’t so!

    • Human2013

      I thought you were passing on today’s show

  • nj_v2

    Former presidential candidate/comic relief agent, Guvnah RIck has the solution: Send in the troops!

    “I will not stand idly by while our citizens are under assault.”

    I wonder if a thousand troops will be enough against the army of little, starving, persecuted kids. And they carry diseases, too, though little rascals. Hope the troops have hazmat masks and stuff.

    http://governor.state.tx.us/news/press-release/19925/

    Gov. Perry Deploys Texas National Guard Troops to Border

    “Gov. Rick Perry today directed Texas Adjutant General John Nichols to immediately begin preparations for the deployment of up to 1,000 National Guard troops to the border. These troops will support the Texas Department of Public Safety’s (DPS) ongoing law enforcement surge, Operation Strong Safety, which is focused on combatting criminal activity in the region resulting from the federal government’s failure to adequately secure the border.”

    (snipped)

    • TFRX

      Assault?

      The axiom is proved again:

      “Texas is a great place for men* and dogs, and hell on women and horses.”

      (*Straight, white, and of some means, please)

    • hennorama

      nj_v2 — the selfsame “Former presidential candidate/comic relief agent,” Texas Gov. Rick Perry, is simply trying to cover up/make up for his prior “sin,” when he said, on the Fox News debate of all places,

      If you say that we should not educate children who come into our state for no other reason than that they’ve been brought there through no fault of their own, I don’t think you have a heart. We need to be educating these children, because they will become a drag on our society.

      Gov. Perry may also be trying to make up for (and also to support his “boots on the ground” position) this exchange with Rick Santorum, from the same debate, in which Gov. Perry says that building a barrier/fence along the entire US-Mexico border “does not make sense”:

      PERRY: I’ve got one question for him.
      Have you ever even been to the border with Mexico?

      SANTORUM: Yes.

      PERRY: I’m surprised if you have, but you weren’t paying attention, because the idea that you –

      SANTORUM: Well, the answer is, yes, I have.

      PERRY: — are going to build a wall, a fence for 1,200 miles, and then go 800 miles more to Tijuana, does not make sense. You put the boots on the ground.

      We know how to make this work. You put the boots on the ground.

      Source:
      http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/22/fox-news-google-gop-2012-presidential-debate/

      • Ray in VT

        There are three things to which Governor Perry is vehemently opposed: illegal immigrants, a powerful federal government and … what was the third one?

        • hennorama

          Ray in VT — those circular firing squad “debates” were nothing if not entertaining. I hope there’s something of a repeat in the 2016 campaign, but Priince Reebus seems determined to avoid a repetition.

          • Ray in VT

            Michele Bachmann says that she hasn’t ruled out another run. It could get really entertaining.

  • nj_v2

    It’s early, but it looks like the right-wing clown posse is going to conflate immigrants and refuges all day.

    • HonestDebate1

      The term is “illegal alien”.

    • jefe68

      Of course, and they will do it with the vigor that reflects their ignorance and intolerance. Nothing new there.

  • Guest

    I’m sure Al Qaida is all in favor of Obama’s ‘open border’ policy.

    • Ray in VT

      I guess that that is why the year with the most border patrol agents was 2011 and was only 40 fewer for fiscal year 2012.

    • TFRX

      Submitted without comment.

  • HonestDebate1

    “Horrifically, they’re cutting off body parts, and they’re sending it back to the families,” he remarked. “And they’re forcing little boys and little girls, they’re putting a gun to the back of their head, and they’re saying cut off the finger, cut off the ear of another child. And if the child refuses, they’re shooting and killing that kid.”

    The Texas Republican said that he had been told that some of the children had been “maimed” and tortured.

    “It’s not humane, it’s not compassionate, and that’s what Harry Reid and the Democrats want to do,” Cruz insisted. “They don’t want to fix the problem, they want to keep having children come in in a situation where they’re brutalized.”

    “That doesn’t’ make any sense, and it’s not consistent with rule of law.”

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/20/fox-host-calls-out-ted-cruzs-false-compassion-on-border-crisis-your-plan-doesnt-help-the-kids/

    • Ray in VT

      Maybe Obama can call the gangs and cartels in Central America and they will immediately stop recruiting and killing kids there.

      • HonestDebate1

        You are not a serious person.

        • jefe68

          Oh please, spare us the self righteous act.

          • TFRX

            Hey, if he wants–every day–to claim “it breaks my heart” upon the brand new rediscovery that politics isn’t high tea, but more like the rough and tumble of the Teabaggers, maybe it’s not a bad thing.

            Cos he’s not getting the help he needs from anywhere else.

          • jefe68

            Maybe he should get an award, say a fruitcake…

        • Ray in VT

          Lame.

          I just thought that seeing as how you claimed that Obama could have brought Yanukovych towards NATO/EU with just a quick ring a ding doo that he could do the same with these folks down south.

    • TFRX

      First, you lost us at “Texas Republican on Fox News said he’d been told”. Not an iota of belief to be given there.

      Second, what’s that story about? Whatever that story is, I guess a Fox Newser didn’t call out Ted Cruz on false compassion and didn’t say Cruz’ plan does nothing for these kids.

      • HonestDebate1

        You must have missed the headline:

        Fox host calls out Ted Cruz’s false compassion on border crisis: Your plan ‘doesn’t help the kids’

        So let me get this straight, are you alleging Cruz made it all up? Are you at all curious at why we have no pictures. Where is the press? Why did Obama stay away from the border while he was in Texas? Why isn’t he bringing attention to the crisis?

        • Ray in VT

          GOP Really Wants Obama To Visit The Border. But They Criticized Him For Doing So In 2011

          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/10/john-cornyn-obama_n_5574572.html

          He’s going to get trashed either way.

          • HonestDebate1

            Yes, obviously a President should only do what any particular Senator says. He shoud base all of his decisions on whether he will be trashed in the press. Brilliant.

          • Ray in VT

            So should he care or not care if Cornyn wants or doesn’t want him to go? I think that he knows that some will try to dump on him no matter what he does, and it likely doesn’t affect him much. Teabagger criticism probably isn’t much on his radar.

          • HonestDebate1

            That’s a stupid question Ray.

          • Ray in VT

            Just a response to your stupid comment. You do tend to drag down the collective IQ when you start spewing your nonsense.

          • HonestDebate1

            No, you’re wrong. First you suggest that Obama will get trashed either way so there is no sense in his doing his job, doing what’s right. Never mind no one is telling him to stay away and many on both sides of the aisle are begging him to come. It’s just a stupid pinball move but you don’t stop there. You ricochet off the pinball and ask if Obama should care about what Cornyn wants. That’s not even the basis of your excuse which is Obama shouldn’t go to the border because once upon a time Cornyn hurt his feelings. It’s just stupid as hell.

            As least have the balls TFRX does not have and say Ted Cruz made it up. Give a basis for why you think he is lying or his tale is not plausible. But this display of yours sweeps atrocity under the rug, you can’t be proud.

            I swear Ray I think you just see honest debate and want to fight. I don’t think you thought this through. I think you are just attempting to sow discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in this online community with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into anemotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion. Why else would you attack me for shining light on this awful situation?

          • Ray in VT

            Hey, whatever combination of name-calling, although I think that bringing up your lame history of blatant lies and distortions is always useful, and your mental case oversimplifications and such help you to bear that cross.

            I think that if you actually engaged in some honest debate I might die of shock.

          • HonestDebate1

            “Horrifically, they’re cutting off body parts, and they’re sending it back to the families,” he remarked. “And they’re forcing little boys and little girls, they’re putting a gun to the back of their head, and they’re saying cut off the finger, cut off the ear of another child. And if the child refuses, they’re shooting and killing that kid.”

            Nothing to see here.

          • Ray in VT

            Care to point out where I have indicated that? I must not care about kids, as you have suggested that TFRX does not.

            I have merely, in part, been commenting on how the TOP dumps on Obama no matter what he does. He goes to the border. Just awful. He doesn’t go to the border. THIS IS TERRIBLE!!!!

          • HonestDebate1

            That’s stupid Ray. Stupid as hell. Have a nice day.

          • Ray in VT

            Oh, so I didn’t take that stance? Good to know. It really is a shame that someone has to go through the bother of pointing out how the TOP and its trolls will dump on Obama no matter what. It is stupid. It’s stupid as hell, but that’s how teabaggers roll.

          • jefe68

            Don’t hold your breath…

          • Ray in VT

            “Give a basis for why you think he (Cruz) is lying”. Don’t tell me what I think. Bam! Oh wait, but it’s probably okay when you do it to others, just not when others do it to you, right?

            Also, what leads you to the bogus conclusion that I am suggesting that Mr. Cruz is lying? This should be good.

          • HonestDebate1

            Hey Einstein, asking your opinion is not telling you what you think.

            And if you believe Cruz then why on earth are you attacking my comments and making excuses for Obama?

          • Ray in VT

            I can’t hold a candle to Einstein, but I compare favorably to the sorts of ignorant trolls who can’t even understand a basic dictionary definition. It is a burden that I must bear when dealing with you.

            Oh, so when you say that I think something, you’re not really telling me that I think something. Good to know.

            Who’s making excuses? I am merely pointing out basic facts that escape the sort of idiots who want to blame President Obama for everything. It’s a shame to see what blind rage can do to people. That darned Obama made it rain yesterday when I wanted to do some yard work yesterday. He should have called the clouds and told them not to rain on me.

          • Ray in VT

            M.O.: “attempting to sow discord on the Internet by starting arguments or
            upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic
            messages in this online community with the deliberate intent of
            provoking readers into anemotional response or of otherwise disrupting
            normal on-topic discussion.” A perfect description of the bulk of your ever-bizarre comments.

          • keltcrusader

            “I think you are just attempting to sow discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in this online community with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion. ” Pot meet kettle

          • HonestDebate1

            I’m all about love.

          • AnneDH

            Pretty much sums up Obama’s presidency.

        • TFRX

          I’m alleging that you’re fluffing Cruz and didn’t read the headline yourself.

          PS Your JAQing off is showing again.

          • HonestDebate1

            Dude, I watched the interview as it happened. Why don’t you care about the kids?

          • TFRX

            Keep JAQing it.

          • Ray in VT

            The New Century Foundation, the source of your black people are 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a white person than vice versa, also paints a pretty bleak picture of Hispanics and crime. Why are you being so soft on all of these potentially super violent brown people?

          • TFRX

            And when President Obama went to the border previosly, the GOP whined there little bitchy heads off.

            I hope you enjoy JAQing it as much as the rest of us scorn it.

  • AC

    what are the leaders of the countries of origin saying about this? why isn’t the whole world shaming them? why does this have to be about immigration at all? this is a human tragedy and i don’t understand how those leaders can hold their head up. who the hell wants to invest in those countries? they obviously can’t lead themselves AT ALL.

  • William

    We cannot ignore the fact that the US Government is encouraging Human Trafficking by not deporting illegals arriving across the border and VISA overstays.

    • Ray in VT

      I’m inclined to think that that has a somewhat negligible affect. At a time when things have gotten quite bad in parts of Central America, people are on the move, and I think that most will still try to make it even if they know that the odds are against them succeeding, because maybe they have nothing left to lose.

      • Davesix6

        Ray, just how far is VT from the southern border?

        • TFRX

          Don’t worry. This situation is being ramped up (thanks, Foxfukkers) to the point that even Boy Scouts, on the Canadian border, aren’t safe.

          http://www.kcci.com/news/officer-points-gun-at-boy-scout-at-canadian-border/27078396?_escaped_fragment_=bkpEr9#!bkpEr9

          • hennorama

            TFRX — gad-freaking-zooks!

            (Of course, everyone knows that Boy Scouts from Iowa, driving from Canada into Alaska, are a national security threat. They are disease-ridden, criminal, job-stealing terrorists, obviously.)

          • TFRX

            I think they mean to steal all the best seats at BC Lions games, displacing native Canadians.

            (The Lions draw anywhere from 23k to 40k in a stadium that seats 54k.)

    • HonestDebate1

      The numbers were mostly unaffected after the Wilberforce Act in 2008…. and 2009, 2010 and 2011. After Obama’s EO the numbers exploded culminating with this. And yet many are willfully led to believe Obama’s action was negligible and that the real problem was Bush.

      • Ray in VT

        Oh yeah, those Central American families just started clamoring to send there kids here after reading about Obama’s EO. That’s why the numbers were climbing before he did it. He probably told them about it before hand. His EO is also to blame for why the numbers of Central American’s fleeing their countries started exploding in 2009.

      • William

        This immigration problem, i.e., encouraging Human Trafficking goes back decades and both sides of the isle are guilty of encouraging it.

        • HonestDebate1

          True, Bush was awful on immigration policy. However, Obama’s EO was the root of this particular crisis.

          • Ray in VT

            Hahahahahaha. Always good for a laugh.

          • HonestDebate1

            Here are the numbers (from a sympathetic source), do you dispute them?

            http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Reality-Check-What-Led-to-Immigration-Crisis-266157771.html

          • Ray in VT

            Why would I do that? Yes, facts are sympathetic to my positions. You? Not so much. It’s just that you equate a cause and effect without evidence. For instance, look at the increase from 2008 to 2009. Was that Obama’s EO? I am wearing a black shirt today and it is cloudy. Ergo it is cloudy because I wore a black shirt. That’s evidence that even the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine and their petition could back.

          • HonestDebate1

            The increase in 2008 may well have been the Wilberforce Act. Duh! That was nothing compared to this. Are you saying the EO had no affect?

          • Ray in VT

            Or it could have been due to conditions in those countries. Duh!

            I think that it likely had little impact. People seeking asylum in various Central American countries has also boomed over the past few years (more than doubling). Our current situation is very likely due to that. So, did Obama issue some EU that caused that boom in asylum seekers in Central America?

          • jefe68

            Clueless is as clueless does… that’s HD for yah.

          • hennorama

            Ray in VT — it’s also a fact that DACA does not apply to any of these recent immigrants.

            Funny how that fact gets left out by conservatives/Republicans/TEA Shindiggers, and others who say “Obama’s EO” caused this.

          • HonestDebate1

            O please.

          • Ray in VT

            What did hennorama get wrong?

          • HonestDebate1

            The same thing she always gets wrong, she looks at the trees and misses the forrest. Assuming theses kids know the details of the law and act accordingly is insane.

          • Ray in VT

            So she got nothing wrong? Thanks for clearing that up.

            So assuming that these kids know the details of the law and act accordingly is insane, yet part of the argument to blame Obama is to argue that they are aware of DACA, but that they are having it misrepresented to them. Ergo potential smugglers are spreading misinformation regarding U.S. policies in order entice people to make the trip north, which is Obama’s fault ultimately, although such misinformation could be easily be spread if the policy was to turn everyone back at the border. So Obama is to blame for other people lying? Awesome.

          • HonestDebate1

            I didn’t say she got anything wrong, I poo pooed her logic. I have always rejected her assumption citing irrelevant facts disproves squat.

            And yea, you got most of the rest right. Although I come down on the side that he knows what he’s doing and you seem to be making the argument (please correct me) he’s a blithering idiot. We may both be right.

          • Ray in VT

            Indeed. The fact that DACA doesn’t apply to new migrants is totally irrelevant when one has a President to smear. Those darned facts just get in the way of so much. It’s better to disregard them when convenient.

            Your inability to understand not only something like the dictionary but the basic tenets and bearing of another’s argument continually astounds me. I bet that he did this DACA knowing that it would drive massive migration in Central America that was already underway.

            I guess that to argue that this, or any, President has to deal with actions and factors that are beyond his control making him an idiot or incompetent or both. I bet that that tune is somewhat different when the person in question has an (R) after his, or her, name. What an idiotic and cartoonish view of Presidential power you have. Why won’t Obama just call Central America and tell it to stop sending kids here? He could stop it today if he just called them. He must be an enemy of ‘Merica.

          • HonestDebate1

            You are free to believe Obama’s EO had nothing to do with this. You are free to believe the massive numbers are merely a correlation. You are free to believe despite being warned repeatedly for nearly two years, Obama was either too stupid or too incompetent to address it. You are free to believe it’s just business as usual for there to be virtually no access for the press. You are free to believe Obama should not be hands on, see it up close and use his bully pulpit to stop atrocities.

            It’s a free country. You are entitled to your misguided opinion.

          • Ray in VT

            And you are free to insanely believe the constant stream of b.s. that you constantly spew. In ‘Merica you are entitled to be as ignorant as you like. No one can take away your right that you choose to exercise so freely.

    • hennorama

      William — FYI, “Human Trafficking” and human smuggling are different things.

      Per ICE:

      Trafficking vs. Smuggling

      Trafficking vs. Smuggling: What’s the Difference?

      Human trafficking and human smuggling are distinct criminal activities, and the terms are not interchangeable. Human trafficking centers on exploitation and is generally defined as:

      Sex trafficking in which a commercial sex act is induced by force, fraud or coercion, or in which the person induced to perform such act has not attained 18 years of age; or

      Recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision or obtaining of a person for labor or services, through the use of force, fraud or coercion for the purpose of subjection to involuntary servitude, peonage, debt bondage or slavery.

      Human smuggling centers on transportation and is generally defined as:

      Importation of people into the United States involving deliberate evasion of immigration laws. This offense includes bringing illegal aliens into the country, as well as the unlawful transportation and harboring of aliens already in the United States.

      See:
      http://www.ice.gov/news/library/factsheets/human-trafficking.htm

      • William

        It gets confusing…the UN defines it as follows;

        Article 3, paragraph (a) of the Protocol to Prevent, Suppress and Punish Trafficking in Persons defines Trafficking in Persons as the recruitment, transportation, transfer, harbouring or receipt of persons, by means of the threat or use of force or other forms of coercion, of abduction, of fraud, of deception, of the abuse of power or of a position of vulnerability or of the giving or receiving of payments or benefits to achieve the consent of a person having control over another person, for the purpose of exploitation.

        So when a reasonable man would have to conclude being paid to move people with the intent of breaking various laws is trafficking in humans or human trafficking.

        • hennorama

          William — thank you for your response.

          The UN definition of “Trafficking in Persons” aligns with the ICE definition:

          UN: “…for the purpose of exploitation.”

          ICE: “Human trafficking centers on exploitation…”

          “[A] reasonable man would have to conclude” that trafficking and smuggling are, as ICE says, and in alignment with the UN definitions,

          Human trafficking and human smuggling are distinct criminal activities, and the terms are not interchangeable.

          In addition, the UN uses different terminology, but also has a separate definition for Migrant Smuggling:

          What is Migrant Smuggling?

          The Smuggling of Migrants Protocol supplementing the United Nations Convention against Transnational Organized Crime defines the smuggling of migrants as the

          “procurement, in order to obtain, directly or indirectly, a financial or other material benefit, of the illegal entry of a person into a State Party of which the person is not a national or a permanent resident.” (Article 3, Smuggling of Migrants Protocol).

          See:
          http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/human-trafficking/smuggling-of-migrants.html

          http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/human-trafficking/what-is-human-trafficking.html

  • TFRX

    If On Point is going to pull pieces from Politico*, I expect to hear a full dissection of how much money McConnell thinks we’d be “throwing at border” v. “building the dang fence”.

    *Always a bad idea except if the goal is to propagate the right-most of Beltway Inbred “savviness”, or to reflect today what Matt Drudge was pimping yesterday.

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    Why rot at home when you can do so at a refugee shelter with food, water, bedding, shelter, medical attention, education opportunities, and caring attendants? I’d smuggle myself into the USA if I were in those horrible circumstances.

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB
  • stephenreal

    The Idea of the federal government taking care of kids looks to me like a lawsuit in waiting.

  • stephenreal

    But have a little humanity brother these kids should be reunited with families.

  • stephenreal

    It’s a weather dip. Always happens every year in the brutal heat of Texas

  • AnneDH

    Should they swim to Ellis Island?

  • stephenreal

    They’d have to take the panama canal.

  • stephenreal

    “Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
    With silent lips.

    “Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

    • AnneDH

      5,000+- people PER DAY arriving in the late 1800′s-early 1900′s. After a brutal 3-4 week trip across the ocean from Europe to escape extreme poverty.

  • stephenreal

    As long your white. And they ain’t white.

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    Politician: A species that spends most of its adult life preening, milling around smartly, fawning over members of the order with brighter plumage and access to bug bits, demanding attention from weaker members of the species who have no plumage or bug bits. Mostly the politician spends its days and nights making shrill noises and spinning on its overdeveloped ego. The bite is not toxic but does leave the victim feeling lethargic and apathetic.

    No none contribution to the greater society has ever been observed resulting from the actions of this creature.

    • nj_v2

      “We find that generally speaking, the geographically larger the physical task to be done, the duller the conceptual brain is brought to bear upon the technically realized applications. Finally, we get to international affairs and you know what is happening today.

      The most highly polished of the dullest class, scientifically and intellectually speaking, may wear their striped pants very beautifully, and be charming fellows, but they have not produced any mutually acceptable, constructive world-peace-generating ideas. They traffic successfully only in people’s troubles and emergency compromises.”

      “Politicians are always realistically maneuvering for the next election. They are obsolete as fundamental problem-solvers.”

      —R. Buckminster Fuller

  • stephenreal

    Like dude says: White power!

  • stephenreal

    Is that what the words say on the golden door? White power!

  • stephenreal

    Maybe not. But Let’s send our troops anyways to exterminate with extreme prejudice.

  • stephenreal

    Humanity brother. We are are not all neo-nazis as one would suggest.

  • stephenreal

    It’s always the time bro. When was it ever not the time?

  • stephenreal

    Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
    A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
    Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
    Mother of Exiles.

  • stephenreal

    The mother of exiles?

  • Ray in VT

    So is the speaker being puzzled by how people could be potentially misrepresenting the Bush era law and ascribing blame due to people potentially misrepresenting the Obama EO?

  • stephenreal

    The mother of exiles says exterminate the kids. Of course with extreme prejudice.

  • Human2013

    Can someone PLEASE explain why the Bush law differentiated Central American children from Mexican children…. Did Bush want to appear partly human or was it a gift to Texas

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    A guy* who goes on three-day funders and plays more golf than Sam Sneed isn’t going to MUST DO anything. Sorry, Charlie. That tuna has sailed.

    * Our poofter president.

    • TFRX

      “Poofter”?

      What kind of limp-wristed clockshucker are you?

      • jefe68

        That’s British slang for gay. So this chap seems to be a Brit or maybe from a Commonwealth country.

  • Yar

    So the run-away who ends up as a sex slave is not victim of human trafficking because they initially ran from one bad condition and found their way into a worse one? Smuggling is human trafficking.

  • Human2013

    Someone point me to the Obama speech that welcomed Central American children

    • Ray in VT

      I think that it was on his apology tour.

    • jefe68

      The one thing being left out is they are deporting people at record levels. What the Obama administration is doing, if I’m to under stand this correctly, is they are looking for temporary housing to detain the immigrants. Most of whom will be sent back to their country of origin.

      • hennorama

        jefe68 — yes, but “Obama’s not counting right,” according to his critics, because the data includes those who were not counted in previous statistics.

        Per latimes.com:

        Until recent years, most people caught illegally crossing the southern border were simply bused back into Mexico in what officials called “voluntary returns,” but which critics derisively termed “catch and release.” Those removals, which during the 1990s reached more 1 million a year, were not counted in Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s deportation statistics.

        Now, the vast majority of border crossers who are apprehended get fingerprinted and formally deported. The change began during the George W. Bush administration and accelerated under Obama. The policy stemmed in part from a desire to ensure that people who had crossed into the country illegally would have formal charges on their records.

        See:
        http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-obama-deportations-20140402-story.html#page=1

  • stephenreal

    yeah dark kids with white children.

  • stephenreal

    What kind of malarkey is Artie talking about?

  • Yar

    False equivalency, vets have nothing to do with immigrant children. The caller Artie is fear mongering.

  • stephenreal

    All right… we’ll give some land to the nigg@rs and the chinks. But we don’t want the Irish!

    • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

      I’m Irish on my mother’s side. Let me tell you: you don’t want the Irish! Hoober Doober

  • hennorama

    That didn’t take long. Caller “Artie” promotes the usual unsupported anti-immigrant arguments:

    They’re criminals
    They’re disease-ridden
    They’ll take our jobs

    Take about xenophobic.

    [And of course he says (paraphrasing) "It's not that I hate them, but ..."]

    • Ray in VT

      I think that among some considerations of race or ethnicity likely play some role, but who or how much is probably pretty tough to accurately measure.

      • hennorama

        Ray in VT — TYFYR.

        These same unsupported anti-immigrant arguments are made whenever there’s a wave of immigration, throughout US history.

        This nativist stuff is truly ironic, unless those spouting it are Native American, of course.

        • Ray in VT

          Of course I do think that there are some very legitimate concerns and questions regarding the immigration situation and how it affects the country.

          • hennorama

            Ray in VT — TYFYR.

            Indeed.

            But if those arguments are the first things that come to mind, which is true for many, they don’t allow for any real discussion of the issues and possible solutions.

        • TFRX

          I have, in a Pogo strips collection somewhere*, an image of Mole being blacklisted as “not American” by Simple J. Malarkey.

          Mole responds by donning a blanket and and a one-feather headdress, going “nativer than thou” against his accuser.

          (*I think “The Pogo Papers”.)

          • hennorama

            TFRX — TYFYR.

            Pogo rules.

            On a nearly completely unrelated note, I call the pocket gophers that sometimes aerate some of my landscaping “PoGos.”

        • keltcrusader

          You mean like this video from 2013:

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90U2IqXEvSM

          • hennorama

            keltcrusader — TYFYR.

            The cries of “You’re all illegal!” and “We’re the only Native Americans here!” certainly shut them up.

            “Get on with your bogus arguments!” says it all.

    • HonestDebate1

      Why on earth would those claims need to be supported to be a concern?

      • jefe68

        Um, because they promote xenophobia and other nasty traits.

        I think you get the inane comment of the day award. But the days not over…

        • HonestDebate1

          Such shallow thinking!

  • J__o__h__n

    We need to help the corporate persons renouncing their US citizenship pack their bags.

    • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

      Curious: that’s the op-ed this morning in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette from former US ambassador, Dan Simpson. HD

    • TFRX

      Well, if they’re gonna defend themselves, instead of following my flag, that means an uptick for Xi.

      (They will have to provide their own defense forces, right?)

  • Human2013

    They have tuberculosis ???

    • stephenreal

      tinfoil tuesday already? let me get my hat.

  • Human2013

    The last caller shouldn’t have made it on the air!!!! If Tom were here, he would’ve gave it to him… This moderator is too kind

    • TFRX

      This is public radio. Nobody is ever called wrong. Nobody is ever a liar.

      A great place for right-wing guests and callers to spew bullshit pre-treated for public consumption by the righty advocacy media.

      • Ray in VT

        Well, everyone’s opinion needs to be equally valid, which is how some blogger without a college degree needs to get equal time with masses of research from hundreds, if not thousands, of reputable scientists in order to show the debate about global warming.

        • Human2013

          I’m okay with expressing an opinion, but I can’t handle the malicious lies.

  • stephenreal

    The Lord helps those who help themselves. And every observer of Central American politics understand the politicians do absolutely nothing for their constituents. Let’s keep it real here. They have a responsibility in this too.

  • Yar

    Immigration is stuck in what everyone calls a broken system because it works well for low wage labor. Businesses like undocumented status to hold over a workforce. Our immigration system serves those in power that is why is hasn’t changed.

  • stephenreal

    I want rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, shit-kickers and Methodists.

    • JGC

      That sounds so familiar…Is that Governor Perry’s call for volunteers to guard Texas’ border with Mexico?

  • henrietta11

    If so many trillions of dollars were not bring given out in tax breaks for the wealthy and corporate subsidies, we would have plenty for kids,education,vets,the whole public sector.
    These refufee and migrant kids are not the reason for budget choices that shortshrift kids and vets.

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    Golfer Dude Obamer could run his drone squadrons up and down the US – CAM corridor. “If in trouble, wave your sister at flying Mr. Friendly”. Maybe the US could pay to have that message painted on the roofs of the boxcars and flat cars. Don’t drop her!

    Though what Mr. Friendly would actually do about the problem is anyone’s guess.

  • njcs

    What about hundreds of millions currently living in the war zone in Africa and Middle East. People under imminent death thread of Ebola virus? Maybe we should let them all in? or who should be judged to allow in, only people from central America?

  • jsallen

    First caller claimed that there is a conscious effort to let immigrants in. Oh, really? A Berlin Wall from Port Arthur, Texas to San Diego, with watchtowers and guards ordered to shoot on sight — not to speak of somehow blocking access by sea, is the conscious effort which would be required to keep them out.

    • hennorama

      jsallen — that’s exactly what some conservatives/Republicans/TEA Shidiggers, and others, want — an East German-style militarized border barrier fence.

      As I wrote a few days ago,

      Bill “It’s Not A Traditional America Anymore … The White Establishment Is Now The Minority” O’Reilly wishes the U.S. would militarize the U.S.– Mexican border, and says it’s “Mistake Number One” that the U.S. hasn’t built “a border fence like they did in East Germany.”

      Even his obviously leftist guest, Karl Rove, disagreed.

  • stephenreal

    What did you expect? “Welcome, sonny”? “Make yourself at home”? “Marry my daughter”? You’ve got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know… morons.

  • Ray in VT

    One side here just wants due process with these kids, which just strings things out. Paraphrased from the Dooce.

  • Yar

    Ask your guests if the distraction of border control agents is intentional. Did the cartels encourage children to immigrate as a form of human shields to distract us from following their drug mules?

  • podmanic

    He can’t imagine why anyone is invoking the sex-trafficking law because it’s not sex-trafficking? Is this a joke? The problem is that how the law was written and applied to Central American countries vs Mexico, does not distinguish amongst any of the reasons and methods that children arrive here, but it is still a law that the administration must uphold. Give me a break. This guy is a reaal spin-meister.

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    Ingenuous* never won a battle.
    –Marshall Stalin

    * The friendly protagonist in the perpetual war against evil Disingenuous guy.

  • JR

    Why are we not holding each country responsible for some of the cost? If we all agree that we must treat these children in a humanitarian manner, fine. But the countries of Central America get off free. Why should we not demand money from them and if not money, perhaps some property or real estate for American investment? Instead we are arguing about how WE should pay for this.

    • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

      Good luck taxing the poor. It’d be much easier to get General Electric and Delta Airlines to pay federal income taxes. HD

    • Ray in VT

      A decent idea perhaps, but how would we collect on that?

    • nj_v2

      : : : shaking head : : :

      http://www.zompist.com/latam.h
      U.S. Interventions in Latin America

      http://www.sourcewatch.org/ind
      Imperial terror in South America

      http://www.yachana.org/teachin
      History of U.S. Interventions in Latin America

      http://www.abc-clio.com/produc
      Encyclopedia of U.S. Military Interventions in Latin America

      http://www.alternet.org/story/
      Oliver Stone: The US Has Launched Military Interventions and Political Coups Fifty-Five Times in Latin America

      • Ray in VT

        Yeah. Then there’s all of that. One could see this as payback if one was inclined to do so.

      • stephenreal

        And these colonies were set up by the Spanish not North Americans. Central American politicos’ have a historical legacy of failing their constituents. Let’s just keep it real bro.

        • Ray in VT

          Do you think that they’d be doing any better if the colonies had been set up by Great Britain or the U.S. in the late 18th or 19th centuries? I don’t.

        • jefe68

          You are very much mistaken. Central America historical ties to the US from the late 1800′s right on through the present is very much related to how US government’s past and present, as well as corporations, have controlled the politics and economics of this region.

          By the way, Spain ceased being a world power after the Spanish American war of 1898.

      • JR

        No doubt we share some of the blame but this could be opportunity to turn some of it around.

  • stephenreal

    Now if that don’t beat all. Here we take the good time and trouble to slaughter every last Indian in the West, and for what? So we can appoint a sheriff that’s blacker than any Indian. I am depressed.

    • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

      America’s problem is he doesn’t ride tall in the saddle. HD

  • Claire Barker

    We have a large responsibility for the crisis in Central America that has led to the violence that drive people to flee their homeland: the US is the major market for the cocaine and other illegal drugs shipped through Central America, and the guns bought with drug money are bought in the US. Drug rehabilitation programs and sane gun sale laws would do a lot to address these issues.

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    Illegals likely don’t pay federal and state income taxes or social security taxes (though not called that). Unless they managed to get a SS card somehow and are diligent about obeying every aspect of the law.. except for being here illegally.

    • rich4321

      People like you can only think with your money centric, myopic mind. These are children!

    • hennorama

      HLB — actually, multiple studies indicate that one-third to two-thirds of all undocumented workers are on payrolls, and thus contribute to the Social Security and Medicare trust funds, and pay other income-related taxes as well.

      This is a net positive for the viability of the trust funds, since these undocumented workers are not eligible for benefits.

      Here’s what the Social Security Administration (SSA) said on the topic (emphasis added):

      Conclusion

      While unauthorized immigrants worked and contributed as much as $13 billion in payroll taxes to the OASDI program in 2010, only about $1 billion in benefit payments during 2010 are attributable to unauthorized work. Thus, we estimate that earnings by unauthorized immigrants result in a net positive effect on Social Security financial status generally, and that this effect contributed roughly $12 billion to the cash flow of the program for 2010. We estimate that future years will experience a continuation of this positive impact on the trust funds.

      See:
      http://www.socialsecurity.gov/oact/NOTES/pdf_notes/note151.pdf

  • camille napier bernstein

    Americans will send plenty of money overseas after viewing televised close-ups of pitiful, starving children in far-off Africa, but God forbid some needy kids show up on our actual doorstep — real, not televised, close-ups who need substantive help.

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    The Chinese export their “human capital” and they make huge returns on it. Why don’t we do the same here in the USA? I can think of 535 folks in the greater Washington, D.C. area we could well do without.

  • Yar

    How inclusive is our economy? If you are poor, not very!

  • Ray in VT

    I don’t think that we can talk about vested interests and such in these countries without getting into U.S. involvement in that region.

    • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

      Does the U.S. Dept. of Agriculture have a “vested interest” in Costa Rica? If so, why? HD

  • stephenreal

    1980′s was thirty years ago. We could barely take down Iraq. They wanted to kill their own people. That is total malarkey.

  • stephenreal

    Nobody kills better then their own Central Americans neighbors. Please with the unmitigated malarkey.

  • stephenreal

    They have a responsibility for their own neighborhood.

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    Good luck fighting that Global Heating thing with a higher population base in the USA. Remember: the carbon footprint of Lil’ Abner goes way, way up when he moves from Dogpatch to the Big Apple.

  • stephenreal

    Victimization? Just does not cut it with me.

  • stephenreal

    When their people ordered the murders and wanted the weapons.

  • stephenreal

    They did a large portion of this to themselves.

    • Chris Green

      Can you provide evidence proving that the children did this to themselves?

      • Beelzebub

        Well, then, I guess the parents brought them into this wonderful existence. It’s funny that you don’t get to vote on being born, but you can make plans about “checking out” and actually follow through. I’d say there is a little bit of justice in this world.

  • DeJay79

    “Drugs are bad M’kay” -José Cárdenas
    are you kidding me this is all the fault of those evil drug do-ers!

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    Long term sound common sense policies”. Goodness, how many contradictions are in that cliché?

  • stephenreal

    Oh wait was it blame on banana farms before?

  • Bob_in_RI

    I don’t know if this was intentional or not but the issue voiced by caller who made reference to the border being “intentionally open” and “tuberculosis in the schools” et al was not talking about the economy. He was making reference to this bizarre and idiotic thread running through and undermining our democracy that the Obama administration is engaged in a conspiracy to destroy our country by infecting us with disease and crashing our economy and corrupting our sovereignty. On Point needs to start talking about this issue. The conservative movement (IE: the 1%`ers) in this country have undertaken a thoughtfully orchestrated and well funded effort to target less intelligent or otherwise more gullible voters with this crazy political fantasy in an effort to defraud them of their political support and cause them to vote directly in their disinterest. They have created from whole cloth an entire subculture for this fiction. InfoWars.com, Stansberry, and the rest. It’s time to take this on!

    • podmanic

      Hence the 2nd amendment fundamentalism. It keeps the base hyper-sensitized against any governmental action and thus allows the oil-igarchy freer rein. (See: Koch funding of NRA intransigence.)

      • Bob_in_RI

        I know! If another righty friend of mine starts sending email about FEMA concentration camps I’m gonna lose it!

        • Ray in VT

          Is that still going around?

          • jefe68

            You know that Obama is destroying this nation as we know it….
            It breaks some peoples hearts…

          • Bob_in_RI

            It’s Obama? I though it was Barney! Yuh yuh!

          • Ray in VT

            Barney the dinosaur? I knew that dinosaurs and people lived at the same time.

          • Bob_in_RI

            It’s true, Ray. They walk among us. And Jefe? Relax boss-man, you and your broken-hearted amigos can rest easy. All that “destroying the nation” business is simply made up. You see, there are some extremely wealthy people in our country who have some items on their political agenda that benefit only themselves and cost you dearly. They can’t describe their goals to you honestly because you would never support them and their numbers are too few to influence elections. So, they cooked up this end-of-America story and are selling it hard. The outcomes of the remedies they are proposing for their fictional crisis are same outcomes they desire for themselves and the very ones you would never support if you knew better.

          • jefe68

            I was joking and being sarcastic. There are some right wingers who post here all the time who blame everything on Obama, including bad hair days and flat tires. That’s if they have any hair.

          • Bob_in_RI

            Good to hear! Sorry for the lecture.

          • Ray in VT

            Yes indeed. I really want to make money making x, but it creates pollution that harms people, so I have begun a campaign for liberty, because people need freedom from regulations. They need the freedom to have me pollute their air, water, land or consumer products.

    • Obamunism 2.0

      - Negative GDP of 3% for Q1 2014
      - $7 trillion added to the national deficit

      None of that is imagined, Obama ‘built that’.

  • stephenreal

    When the Spanish set up these huge land grabs.

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    Move all the immigrants, legal and otherwise, to Florida. Teach them how to build boats and how to fish.*

    * Ahead of global sea level rise. The good thing is we’ll lose a pile of Congress dead wood (we won’t have to pay for).

  • DJJS

    Just checking the website, and the panel looks a little lopsided (“to lefty” in Tom A’s words). If John Harwood (sp?) is the guest host, I’m not surprised as what I heard of yesterday’s show on the Gaza crisis was skewed. John’s interview of the Israeli ambassador was borderline rude. If I were the ambassador, I would not agree to be interviewed by John ever again. Disclaimer – I think Israel should have ceased settlement building on the West Bank a long time ago.

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    The dumbest thing ever said: “You would think…”

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    “No action in Congress.” If your car didn’t run wouldn’t you junk it?

    • nj_v2

      7% approval rating

    • StilllHere

      I love my Congressperson, but yours is nuts.

  • rich4321

    Why is this even an immigration issue? This is a humanitarian issue, these are children we are talking about, they come to this world on no fault of their own. Are we the Americans low ourselves to such low standard? Here in the U.S. people spend hundreds and thousands on things they don’t need, but when it comes to save a soul, people argue about money. Shame on you people!

    • streetglide

      No one is stopping you from sending your money anywhere you wish. Just don’t demand to spend mine.

      • rich4321

        Very well, keep your money all you want. God forbids one day you find yourself in a bad situation, I beat you will be whining like a cry baby.
        What goes around comes around. As karma has it.

        • streetglide

          You have no idea how many bad situations I have encountered in my life. I have cried like a baby and laughed like a hyena; the later of which I am doing right now at you. Karma does come around and bites the ignorant on the ass more often times than not. Hope your underwear is up to it amigo.

          • rich4321

            Very mature, resort to name calling.

          • streetglide

            LMAO…because calling someone a cry baby is SO mature.

          • Chris Green

            Everyone has encountered bad situations in their lives streetglide.

            If you understand adversity, then it sort of suggests high confusion as to why you would ignore helping children who have experienced the same level of adversity as you have encountered.

    • William

      Why encourage people to use children to break the law(s)? Is it worth the risk? Why not just return all those children via a free plane ride and that will discourage and hopefully greatly reduce the practice.

      • Chris Green

        Many families around the world will break the law if it means providing food, clothing, and shelter, and safety for their children.

        Many American parents have broken the law so their children could eat and not starve.

        These parents are sending their children so they have a better chance at life and to escape crime ridden environment, a corrupt government who will not do much of anything. So yeah, they are going to break to law if it means securing better life chances for their children and happily take the risk.

        The reason they are not being packed like wild animals into a plane and shipped back is because it would be a death sentence to those children.

        Children William. No convicted adult criminals, children.

    • Markus6

      A fair point. It is a humanitarian issue. And if I were them, I’d do the same thing.

      But, and there’s always a but, how many should we take in? We have problems with unemployment, overcrowded schools, CO2, sprawl, lots more. There are tens of millions, at least, in a similar state as these kids. When you take them in, you’ve just said to anyone who can get here, just get here and we’ll take care of you. And by the way, the one’s you’re hurting are probably not the rich in this country.

      So, maybe it’s that people are greedy and lacking in compassion. Or maybe it’s that some of us think in the long term and of helping those that are here now. Don’t jump to the negative.

    • notafeminista

      Where can we get a list of what we do or do not “need”? And just how is that list determined?

  • http://stephensonstrategies.com W. David Stephenson

    Quaint concept from my youth: the US used to send “foreign aid” to help develop economies in these countries. Yes, a lot was hoarded by tin-horn dictators, but doesn’t that deserve another look, especially if there were tight regulations on use?

    • JS

      It possible, and probably likely, that such “foreign aid” was not to help develop economies in these countries, but to prop up those tin-horn dictators.

      • http://stephensonstrategies.com W. David Stephenson

        Of course, along with some of our other tools, like CIA-backed coups in Latin America.

  • Davesix6

    The backlash that is finally boiling over is not about race. I have seen many Latinos speaking out and protesting the flood of illegal crossings.
    This is a matter of US sovereignty and our right to expect, no to demand, our government secure our borders.

    • hennorama

      Davesix6 — the vast majority of this influx of migrant children are not trying to evade detection, which is itself an indication of border security rather than a lack of security.

      • Davesix6

        The children should be taken care of as well as possible with whatever care they may require.

        The thing is, these poor children are only one component of the absolute ciaos that many of us now associate with our border to the south.

        While our immigration laws may indeed be in need of reform, they are the “law of the land”, and simply put, have not been enforced by our Federal government.

        • hennorama

          Davesix6 — first let me thank you for your contribution to the list of Typos/Freudian Slips/Autocorrections That Make Me Smile:

          “absolute ciaos” vs. “absolute chaos”

          Absolute Alohas to you, too, sir.

          I agree that our laws should be enforced, which is exactly what the Border Patrol and other Federal authorities are doing, regarding this recent influx.

          • IHateFatChicks

            No, the laws are not being enforced. Otherwise they’d stop them at the border. They’re not “refugees”. They’re not fleeing armed conflict, ethnic cleansing, a horrific natural disaster or some other similar event. Their dear parents have abandoned them and sent them to the US to obtain residency and citizenship. It’s that simple. They are not our problem. Send them back.

          • jefe68

            I’d like to send you back…

          • hennorama

            LoathsomeLoatherOfLargeYoungPoultry — nonsense, as usual.

          • pete18

            “LoathsomeLoatherOfLargeYoungPoultry -”

            Although IHFC is right and you are wrong on this, you win for funniest response. LOL

          • hennorama

            pete18 — TYFYR.

            Glad you enjoyed my apt description.

            As you no doubt expect, I disagree with the first part of your comment.

          • IHateFatChicks

            Sure. Right. Whatever. OK. My fat, uneducated friend. :)

      • IHateFatChicks

        Stay classy. And, yet again, you demonstrate how you’re logically, factually and intellectually inconsistent and, quite frankly, wrong on nearly every issue. Leave it to an uneducated, SAHM woman to open her hole and spew meaningless, ignorant bile. :)

        • hennorama

          LoathsomeLoatherOfLargeYoungPoultry — your comment is rejected in its entirety, with the exception of your observation of my classiness.

          • IHateFatChicks

            I always find it ironic that a fat, uneducated, trailer park dweller like you considers yourself “classy”. You keep saying that and it doesn’t mean what you think it means. :) You vacuous, vapid, irrational, bitter, angry fat woman.

  • sjw81

    are we a nation and of laws or not? nations have borders, and have laws. we have unsecured borders, and mass illegal immigration and now third world children-with out parent supervision without immunizations, without money and we are expected to just let them in and shelter and feed and take care of…this is insane . we taxpayers will have to pay for their schooling, their medical, their crimes when committed?? whose communities will they be going to? anyone listening to this show today? whose kids will there be sitting next to in class?? any one listening today?

    • podmanic

      Is this a letter from Turkey’s southern border? Jordan? The USA should be the only country in the world exempt from taking in refugees? I’m sure your answer will be that Obama invited them. Everything is always his fault, never mind that the situation in central America is not much different from war zones around the world.

      • notafeminista

        Oh heavens no. We know that everything is always President Bush’s fault. Even 5 1/2 years after leaving office it’s his fault. 25 1/2 years after leaving office it will be his fault.

        • jefe68

          He never mentioned GW Bush.
          It’s the right that is constantly blaming Obama for everything, so stop with the high and mighty act. It’s looking more like sad parody.

          • pete18

            Given that Obama is the current president he is a more likely candidate for blame.

          • jefe68

            And your point is what?

          • pete18

            It is appropriate to lay a lot of the blame for this at the current president’s door.

        • StilllHere

          Exactly.

      • Jack

        I don’t understand the talk about the US taking in refugees like it is some kind of new thing. During the 1990s, thousands of Kurdish refugees wound up all over the country, including in the deep south; in the ’70s, it was refugees from Viet Nam and Cambodia; and, has everyone forgotten about Miami. Why is everyone acting like this is a new or amazing thing? More to the point, if we don’t want refugees from Central America coming to the US, why don’t we do something about improving the conditions in Central America? That would be far less expensive than “securing the borders.”

        • podmanic
        • podmanic

          Look. Nature abhors a vacuum. You got rich countries and poor countries. In the old days the barriers were too great for much equalization of pressure, but in the 21st century, technology, trade and ease of movement have pretty much broken those barriers down. To think that we can go back to status quo ante are delusional. the WILL be equalization, which, while not zero sum, is closer to that than win win. If we are not proactive in making it more win-win and less zero sum, we will be sorely disappointed…never mind probably art war. As extreme as your suggestion is, going directly to Central America and doing what we can to ameliorate the misery down there so as to relieve the migratory pressure is the kind of action we will need to more and more consider. With the ascendency of extreme GOP, this is unlikely, so even with a republican president, this will only get worse. First step???? Stop the bloody war on drugs. Cut the legs out from under the cartels and their related gangs with legalization, regulation and taxation of drugs. (It will be a lot cheaper, and more successful to spend a little money on therapy for addiction.) Once that’s in place, real, targeted foreign aid to lift up central American states…money well spent to reduce the pressure on our borders.

    • Human2013

      American children are living in third world standards

      We need to legalize cocaine, heroin, MJ

    • Chris Green

      What about the children who have experienced their family members, friends, and even their parents be brutally murdered, and make the wise decision to risk their lives coming into the U.S for a better chance at life? If a child has their parents murdered due to gang violence, then obviously the child will now have no supervision.

      There are American parents who don’t agree with immunizations, thus refuse to have their children immunized.

      Giving those who seriously need humane support and help does not hurt us as tax payers. It’s exactly what humane financial support was created to do.

      I respect your right to your view, but it sounds like a “US vs THEM” thesis.

    • Elizabeth_in_RI

      Actually these nations have a much higher immunization rate than the US does thanks to free vaccinations and the lack of celebrity-driven anti-vaccine efforts. Measles hasn’t been seen in most of Central America since the 1990′s – unlike the US which is seeing a resurgence of measles, whooping cough and other illnesses for which there are vaccines but which well-meaning but misguided parents are avoiding. So you can use other arguments but the “these kids are bringing diseases” argument is pretty insulting and largely inaccurate.

      • TFRX

        There’s “immunization rates of US citizens at large”.

        But to compare apples to apples, for some reason (childhood poverty in rural and red states) we can try to suss out immunization rates for the rural red-staters in the places these immigrants are crossing.

        • hennorama

          TFRX — do you mean, such as this, from NPR.org:

          Texas Megachurch At Center Of Measles Outbreak

          Measles was declared eliminated in the U.S. more than a decade ago. But in recent years, the highly infectious disease has cropped up in communities with low vaccination rates, most recently in North Texas.

          There, 21 people — the majority of whom have not been immunized — have gotten the disease, which began at a vaccine-skeptical megachurch.

          The outbreak began when a man who contracted the virus on a recent trip to Indonesia visited the Eagle Mountain International Church in Newark, about an hour and a half northwest of Dallas.

          Earlier this week, crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand and said she’s not worried “because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he’s covered us with the blood…There’s no place for fear.”

          See:
          http://www.npr.org/2013/09/01/217746942/texas-megachurch-at-center-of-measles-outbreak

          • TFRX

            I didn’t mean that in particular, as I hadn’t heard.

            I was just hypothesizing on the intersection of “immunization” and “rural children” and “childhood poverty”.

            That it came up all bars (i.e. a winning draw on a slot machine) didn’t require a lot of magical wizardry on my part.

          • notafeminista

            Ohhh you got a “two-fer” with that one. Well done!

          • hennorama

            notafeminista — TYFYR.

            I have no idea what you mean by “…you got a ‘twofer’ with that one.” Please explain.

            The article is about a recent measles outbreak in Texas, the primary state where the recent influx of unaccompanied minor migrants has occurred, in direct response to [TFRX]‘s comment regarding “…immunization rates for the rural red-staters in the places these immigrants are crossing.”

      • VASR

        One, there are many
        of countries without regulated borders and they are doing fine. And the fact
        that you are more worried about money than these kids safety says a lot about
        who you are. If you think its inhumane that they have to deal with ‘Coyotes’
        and go through terrifying situations, its because you know nothing of where
        they come from.It would be inhumane to send them back.

        Two, “their
        crimes when committed?” is Latino a synonym of criminal to you? This is a
        ridiculous comment. How about actually discriminating against those politicians
        who are creating irrelevant laws to raise those taxes that you hate so much.

        I’ve met some of
        these ‘third world children-with out parent supervision”, and let me tell
        you, they have come to love this country more than anyone I know, and also,
        they are the most courageous and impressive children that I’ve met in my life.

  • hypocracy1

    I say we find a way to sneak them into Canada..

    • StilllHere

      Pull a Mexico?

  • yera123

    This conversation, regrettably, is full of unjustified incendiary commentaries. Since the start of the arrival of these Central American children at our southern border i have vacillated in my opinion of a resolution of the issue. But I am now in a more compassionate frame of mind. I am reminded that we are a nation of immigrants. Even my family immigrated from Monterrey, Mexico in 1915 (more or less) in the middle of a war when Pancho Villa was raiding homes to get all young men to join his ranks. My family fled over the US/Mexican border to safety and a better economic future. We have been contributors to the US economy ever since. I wonder how many of the persons wishing for these recent arrivals to be immediately returned to their home countries have seen the 1983 movie by Gregory Nava, “El Norte.” If they would they would better understand the plight of the recent arrivals on our border, and I wonder if they would then hesitate before convulsing in these discussions.

    We should also remember that our US government has supported ill advised national governments in these Central American countries as well as deported the initial gang members that started the security problems there as well. Our government has facilitated American agricultural giants to flood these Central American economies with cheap agricultural products, thereby preventing small plot farmers from supporting themselves from their farms. They have had to leave to the cities or to the US. This has happened in Mexico as well. Finally, if there wouldn’t be a market for illegal drugs in the US, there wouldn’t be any drug cartel activities in these countries. I suggest that the less interested in a humane approach to this issue become better informed before sharing more choleric words. As the greatest nation in the world, surely we can lend an ear and a hand to these nations/people that are asking for our help. I am an offspring of an immigrant, and so is everybody else sharing in this conversation.

    • gossipy

      Did your family arrive here in 1915 legally or not? Most previous immigrants came here legally. That’s the difference and where the controversy lies.

      • Duras

        The laws were different too.

    • april

      These “children” are coming to join the parents who abandoned them in the ‘dangerous conditions’ in the first place. Find the parents, reunite them, send them home.

      If we have empty beds in a military
      installation, they belong to the Veterans! “On any given night, more than
      300,000 veterans are living on the streets or in shelters in the U.S.http://www.veteransinc.org/about-us/statistics/

      If we have extra resources, they belong to our own homeless: ”

      As of May 22, 2014, there were approximately 4,600
      families with children and pregnant women in Massachusetts’ Emergency Assistance (EA) shelter program. 1,889 of these families with children were being sheltered in motels. This number does not count those families who are doubled up, living in unsafe conditions, or sleeping in their cars– or many of the 5,400 families who have or will time out of the state’s HomeBASE rental assistance program during fiscal year 2014. Click here for nightly data on the EA program from the Massachusetts Department of Housing and Community Development, and here for data on the reasons families needed to enter the shelter system.

      During state fiscal year 2013, 4,272 families were
      assisted with emergency shelter, with additional families receiving HomeBASE household assistance. More data on the EA and HomeBASE programs can be found here.

      2011 data from the Massachusetts Department of Elementary and Secondary Education (ESE), released in August 2012, estimates that 13,157 high school-aged students in public schools are experiencing homelessness on any given day in Massachusetts. This number includes an estimated 5,853 unaccompanied high school students who are experiencing homelessness and not in the custody of their parent or legal guardian. To see more data from ESE, click here.

      ESE estimates that there are over 44,000 students
      of all ages experiencing homelessness who are enrolled in Massachusetts public schools. In the 2012-2013 academic year, public schools across Massachusetts were able to identify and serve 15,812 students who were experiencing homelessness.”

      http://www.mahomeless.org/advocacy/basic-facts

  • JGC

    It is also past time to phase out the archaic Cuban Adjustment Act. Around 35,000 to 40,000 Cubans emigrate to the U.S. each year, and predominantly for economic and family reasons rather than political persecution, as was the case when the act was passed in 1966. They get permanent residency one year after arrival, and are eligible for Medicaid, supplemental social security income and disability, benefits that are not available to any other group of foreign nationals, except for the few who are granted political asylum. (from a Reuters article by David Adams and Tom Brown)

    Senator Rubio has pointed out the inequity of the situation as it now exists, with Cubans “…a year and a half after they arrive (having secured their U.S. permanent residency status and benefits) they’re going back to Cuba 18 times a year. And I’m telling you that’s a problem.”

    • hennorama

      JGC — perhaps when Republicans read some of the recent findings from Pew Research, they’ll get on a repeal kick toward the Cuban Adjustment Act:

      Less than half (47%) of Cuban registered voters nationwide now say they identify with or lean toward the Republican Party—down from the 64% who said the same about the GOP a decade ago, according to 2013 survey data. Meanwhile, the share of Cubans who identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party has doubled from 22% to 44% over the same time period, according to the survey of Hispanics.

      See:
      http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/06/24/after-decades-of-gop-support-cubans-shifting-toward-the-democratic-party/

  • Gato Pardo

    Corporate American has used the US foreign policy so they can grab what they want and leave those countries in ruins…There is a historic pattern of abuse here, it didn’t have to be this way but it is.
    A read a story once about a butcher who while trying to save himself a penny, helped himself from the city morgue to provide the town with fresh meat…The story ends with zombies chasing everyone in town, looking for what rightfully belonged to them….Ha, ha, ha What a funny analogy

  • StilllHere

    Seems like we should enforce the law, enough said.

    • harverdphd

      All we need is a pen and a phone.

    • Duras

      The law is the law. And if look at history, that attitude is always the best.

  • Beelzebub

    I encourage anyone who has money to burn to send it to any country you want to help out. If you feel you are still not doing enough to save the world, then take a few, oh maybe more than a few, say like many families into your home and take care of their every need. The rest of us, who are mostly in the lower end of the “wealth pool” will continue to eke out enough of an existence to care for OUR families. Sounds fair to me.

    • harverdphd

      And maybe all you caring folks in Vermont could relieve upstate New York of all the poor who come here from The City by inviting them to your state for care sustenance and The Good Life.

      • Duras

        Send them to the Red South. Poor is the new middle class down here.

  • jipengipe

    So the US taxpayer is responsible for taking care of anyone who shows up at the door?

    • rich4321

      Would you rather spend your tax money on building destructive killing weapons?

      • jipengipe

        You mean a weapon to secure our interests abroad and thereby helping actual US citizens? Or keeping an American soldier safer? Yes. Absolutely.

        • harverdphd

          Seconded…all in favor?

      • Fredlinskip

        Why yes- then we can supply these weapons as part of strategy to support Wars in Central America as Reagan did.
        Swell idea.

  • Cacimo

    You say Fermin Vasquez is in the process of applying for citizenship, yet he is living in this country. So I guess he is actually an illegal immigrant hoping to get legalized under the so called “dream act”.

  • rich4321

    It really makes me sad when reading some of these comments. It makes me sad because so many of these comments always leads to money. These are the desperate parents looking for a way to a better future for their children. Any good parents would have done the same. Hypothetically speaking, if you were in a sinking ship with your children, wouldn’t you do everything in you might to put your children in the life boat? This is only natural human response.

    These are children in need. If we can provide them with a decent home, a good education, god knows what they can do for our society when they grow up.

    So please look at this crisis not in term of dollar and cent, but look into your heart. Are you willing to send these children back to face a violent death? What does it do to your conscience knowing that the blood is on your hand?

    So far we are still the richest country in the world, why are we turning into such a non-compassionate, cold-hearted society?

    Let’s not forget nearly a century ago, the jewish people escaped from the Nazi Germany to seek refuge in our nation, many of them turned out to be the very productive member of our society.

    • jipengipe

      Where exactly is the responsibility of the parents to care for their own?

    • jipengipe

      And to clarify, Rich seems to think that it’s good parenting to simply leave your children on your wealthier neighbor’s doorstep and abandon him/her.

    • harverdphd

      Who’s god. And what does he/she know anyway?

    • jefe68

      Actually the US turned away Jewish immigrants fleeing nazi Germany. The irony is that a lot of Jews ended up in Guatemala and Mexico and other Central and South American countries.

    • VinceD2

      Can’t feed ‘em? Don’t breed ‘em!

      How about some sympathy for America’s poor who are being decimated in the workplace by this flood of illegal labor.

      • hennorama

        VinceD2 — two questions, and a challenge:

        1. What “flood of illegal labor” are you referring to?

        2. Don’t you actually mean “flood of illegal employment“?

        Challenge: provide some evidence that “America’s poor … are being decimated in the workplace by this flood of illegal labor.” While doing so, please define the following terms:

        - America’s poor
        - decimated in the workplace
        - flood of illegal labor

        • VinceD2

          There are an estimated 7-8 million illegal aliens here taking jobs that Americans would do for a fair wage, and that number does not include farm workers.

          Those illegals displace American workers, mostly the less well off. Wages are depressed for millions more. Jobs that used to pay decent wages now pay minimum, or simply aren’t available to legal workers.

          Illegal employment? ABSOLUTELY! Illegal employers should be in jail.

          And these “kids” that we are seeing in this surge are largely the family of illegals already here illegally.

          • hennorama

            VinceD2 — thank you for your response. Too bad you didn’t define your terms or provide any evidence.

            Your response implies no “flood of illegal labor,” but instead a lack of “fair wages,” and a surfeit of illegal employers.

            If there is displacement of “American workers, mostly the less well off,” as you claim, and/or if “Wages are depressed for millions more,” one would expect that there would be significant evidence that you could provide.

            In addition, if Americans are so raring to go to work, how do you explain the 4.6 million job openings at the end of May 20i4, as reported by the BLS?

          • VinceD2

            I’m not your research department, do you gave access to Google?

          • hennorama

            VinceD2 — Thank you for your unresponsive response.

            I infer it to mean “I, VinceD2, am too lazy and/or am unable to support my claims.”

          • VinceD2

            he proper interpretation is ‘ I am not going to waste my time spoon feeding a troll who is too lazy to do his/her own research and is unwilling to acknowledge basic simple facts.” Have a good day…

          • hennorama

            VinceD2 — TY for yet another response that does not support any of your claims, and demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the term “troll.”

            If your claims were actually “basic simple facts,” as you claim, you would have no problem supporting them with evidence.

            Your arguments are weak and you cannot, or are too lazy to, support them.

            Those are the “basic simple facts.”

          • april

            LOLOLOL…seriously? First, have you taken a look at the H1b visa issue lately? Those job openings are rarely advertised here, and when they are, Americans need not apply. You won’t receive a response.
            Next, when the middle class needs a min of $36K/year to pay for shelter,, food, clothes, and basic bills, it’s hard to accept a job at $24K/year. How many people do you know that are working multiple jobs? I know a LOT.

          • hennorama

            april — thank you for your response.

            H-1B visa holders and their employers are not part of the cohorts of undocumented workers and illegal employers.

            “$24K/year” (which implies a bit over $11.53/hr. for fifty-two 40-hour workweeks) is far above minimum wage, and is only a bit lower than the median wage ($12.54) for the nearly 4 million US workers in Healthcare Support Occupations, per recent BLS data.

            Many people find these wages to be acceptable.

            As to your claim that you “know a LOT [of people] that are working multiple jobs” — that’s interesting anecdotal information, but not terribly useful for formulating national immigration policy.

            Source:
            http://www.bls.gov/oes/2013/may/oes310000.htm

          • april

            Seriously? So my ‘anecdotal information’ is garbage, but you can get away with “Many people find these wages to be acceptable”.
            Hmm… yep, that would be hypocritical.
            Every single person that I know, who makes minimum wage, has to work at least a part time job and a full time job just to barely make ends meet. That’s just not right.

          • hennorama

            april — thank you for your response.

            You seem to have misunderstood.

            I wrote that your anecdotal information is interesting, not “garbage.” But it is not useful for formulating national immigration policy, because it is only anecdotal.

            It is also not hypocritical, if nearly 4 million people in Healthcare Support Occupations have a median wage of $12.54/hr., meaning half work for less, to write that “Many people find these wages to be acceptable.”

            If the wages weren’t “acceptable,” then they wouldn’t accept the job and the wages.

            Hope that helps clear things up.

            Thanks again for your response.

          • april

            So you contend that if someone works for a wage, it must be acceptable.
            Read The Grapes of Wrath
            You are either a troll, simply looking to make conversation with anyone who will respond to you or you have your head up your sixth point of contact.
            Either way, don’t bother.

          • hennorama

            april — TYFYR.

            J-1 visa holders and their employers are not part of the cohorts of undocumented workers and illegal employers.

            rt.com is a website that is a mouthpiece of the Russian government, and is not the best source.

            Your “definitions” seem to be about poverty in the US, which is not the topic.

            That someone accepts a job at a wage means they find the wage acceptable. It does not mean that the employee does not want to be paid more, as virtually every worker wants to be paid more.

            The Grapes of Wrath is about exploited agricultural labor, which is also not the topic. There definitely are issues with ag labor. Their median wages in 2012 were lower than of HC Support Occupations, at $18,910 per year ($9.09/hour), according to the BLS.

            Thanks again for your response.

            Source:
            http://www.bls.gov/ooh/farming-fishing-and-forestry/agricultural-workers.htm

          • april

            Who brought up J1 visas? I’m not a supporter of work visas in a time of high unemployment and depressed wages but I’m also not against anyone who comes here legally.
            Russia’s press is probably just as slanted through their government as ours is. I read from many sources. Most of what I quoted was actually from our own .gov sites.
            If this topic isn’t about poverty and the exploitation of workers, what IS it about?
            Certainly not a few thousand children crossing the borders to join their parents. *ahem*
            People do not take a job because they accept, or are comfortable with, the wages. They take it because if they don’t, someone else will. That was just one of the lessons in Grapes. They take that job and another one to scrape by.
            Grapes was about so much more than ag labor – it was about wealth and power being concentrated into the hands of the few. Those few never got their own hands dirty. It was about greed hiding behind the mask of ubiquity of corporations and banks.
            On another note, I also don’t like a sect of people who believe they have the right to break laws that I have to obey.
            I believe that I stood in our military to protect my country – starting and stopping at the borders.
            I know that there is a LOT more coming across the southern border than a few thousand children.
            I believe I have the right to expect my elected leaders to uphold the law, change it if they can, and accept it if they can’t. Otherwise, it’s simply a benign dictatorship.

          • hennorama

            april — TYFYR.

            As your question seems to indicate that you have not read or understood your own post (“The State Department’s J-1 Summer Work Travel Program …”), it is increasingly difficult to treat you in a serious manner.

            Please excuse the lack of further comment.

          • april

            Thank goodness. I know what it is, bonehead…. it’s another smoke screen way to exploit foreign workers instead of using American workers who have labor laws and OSHA to protect them. J1 is particularly heinous in that it targets very young people.
            You really need to try thinking for yourself instead of towing a line handed to you.
            Baaaaaaa

    • april

      Wow…ok… lets take this point by point… first – either you let everyone who ‘wants a better life’ in, or you choose to keep someone out. How do YOU choose? next, instead of looking for a better life by illegally crossing a border, getting illegal ID, working illegally, etc…. why not work to make YOUR own country better for everyone there? Oooohhh….wait…. citizens have been disarmed in these countries so the only people to have weapons are…the Bad Guys…. (want more gun control now?)
      Next, if everyone on a sinking ship tried to get in to the one life boat, the life boat would sink.
      Next, we can’t give our own poor a “decent home, a good education” – charity begins at home.
      Next, we are no longer the ‘richest country in the world’..keep up on your public affairs. We are in debt. Our infrastructure is crumbling. We have major issues with overcrowded prisons, schools, and medical facilities.
      Finally – we were wrong to turn the people away hiding from the Nazis…. the difference is, THEIR parents stayed to FIGHT THE WAR there. THEIR parents wanted them to return. THEIR parents didn’t come here first to live and work illegally, leaving the children behind.

  • jefe68

    If has proof of this, concrete proof, Cruz should show it. If does not, he should stop making up porky pies.

  • hennorama

    Bob James — don’t expect any evidence from Sen. Cruz, or from Rep. Steve King, who claimed last year, per abcnews.go.com:

    “For everyone who’s a valedictorian, there’s another 100 out there that weigh 130 pounds and they’ve got calves the size of cantaloupes because they’re hauling 75 pounds of marijuana across the desert.”

    Today, King did not relent, saying that “80 to 90 percent of illegal drugs come from or through Mexico.”

    He added that the Drug Enforcement Agency told him that in every distribution chain of illegal drugs in the United States, “at least one link in that chain is an illegal immigrant.”

    See:
    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/steve-king-defends-controversial-cantaloupes-comments-about-drug-hauling-dreamers/blogEntry?id=19776667

  • VinceD2

    This whole thing has been engineered to turn liberal brains to mush. Consider:

    1) This “surge” has been going on for some time, but kept silent until the story finally broke a few weeks ago.

    2) Obama/DHS knew and was planning to accommodate this surge instead of doing anything to stop it. Obama has been shuttling these 50k people around the country, and telling us that the border is secure.

    3) These kids are not being trafficked, they are coming to meet their illegal alien parents who came here and sent for them hoping to cash in on Obama’s amnesty promises.

    4) Our Dear Amigos in Mexico have been helping these folks come invade our country. Could Mexico have taken them in as “refugees”? Of course! But they are not refugees,m and that was not the plan.

    The solution is simple:

    1) Find the parents that sent money to get these folks here, re-unite them, charge them with child endangerment, and deport them to Mexico.

    2) Tell Mexico to get these families home. They came through Mexico, Mexico must bear the cost of this.

    3) Mandate E-Verify, end birthright citizenship and make it impossible for illegal aliens to make a living here. No amnesty, this invasion must end.

    • Duras

      So practical!

  • harverdphd

    This time in our history calls for out-of-the-box action. Announce to Mexico and the rest of Central America (all failed states) that they are annexed to the US and will eventually become states. Meet resistance with stunning military force and as we inevitably gain converts exploit the local resources and put the populace to work, displacing Asian sources for goods in this hemisphere. Not only will this stem the need for them to sneak into the US… but will also reduce income inequality on a global measure.

    Sure, the UN will piss and moan for a while, but feckless as they are, will retreat to “getting our girls back” or some other hopeless proposition as we give oppressed people in our hemisphere what they want and need.

    • hennorama

      Looks like we have a new leader for “Inane Comment Of The Day.”

      • tbphkm33

        He is good for an idiotic comment at times.

      • jefe68

        I’m not sure if this guys trying to be sarcastic or not. But either way, he gets the inane comment of the day award. Seems he has a phd in idiocy.

    • VinceD2

      No way! If we take those failed states over, they will be our responsibility to fix. We cannot do that, especially with the religious convictions that every sperm is sacred.

      Mexico/CA needs to fix itself. We might be able to help, but if we try too hard we will be seen as nothing more than meddling gringos. We are not liked, justified or not.

  • Christopher Durgin

    “Legal” the host just stated. There is nothing “legal” about these “kids” until they touch US soil. Then they can have a hot meal and get a plane ticket. They’re often sent here after paying a coyote thousands of dollars. Where does this money come from? Why aren’t they using it to better their own situations in their home countries. If we can’t raise the deficit to pay for AMERICAN veterans returning from the middle east, then we certainly don’t have the money to resettle these illegal aliens. Its beyond the time to fix the USA first, then if there’s any money left over then we “fix” the rest of the planet!

  • Obamunism 2.0

    The United States is not projecting an image of strength to the rest of the world when it can’t even secure its own borders. You can bet that America’s enemies are taking note.

    • hennorama

      FYI/(Un)InformedAmerican/X Y & Z/Jay/U.S.S.A/”Guest,” is that you?

      The vast majority of the recent influx of unaccompanied minor migrants do not try to evade detection and detention by the Border Patrol, which is a sign of a secure border, not a lack of security.

      • april

        They aren’t afraid of the consequences of their actions – believing they must be accepted and get a paid trip to the parents that already live here illegally, abandoning their children in horrible conditions to do so. That IS a sign of lack of security

        • Duras

          Security from what? Working people who get exploited by the rich in this country, exploited so much that the tax paper picks up the rest of their living wages….

        • hennorama

          april –thank you for your response.

          Your comment contains a number of questionable premises:

          “They aren’t afraid of the consequences …”

          [Unaccompanied minor immigrants] “…believ[e] they must be accepted…”

          [Unaccompanied minor immigrants have] “parents that already live here illegally…”

          [These alleged parents] “abandon[ed] their children in horrible conditions to ["live here illegally"]

          Putting aside your apparent mind-reading ability (“They aren’t afraid…”), and the fact that none of your premises are universally accurate, the simple fact that these immigrants are not trying to avoid detection, and are being apprehended and detained is a sign of border security.

          If the border was not secure, why would they not simply enter, and then continue on to meet all of the parents who you claim “already live here illegally”?

          • april

            The news channels are all reporting that the few unaccompanied minors coming across are joining their parents. Not my opinion.

            The footage shown by the news reports shows many adults with these children.

            None of them belong here. The are all breaking the law.

            You should do some research and put your thesaurus away.

            Using the biggest words you know, with a lot of brackets, does not make you seem intelligent.

          • hennorama

            april — thank you for your response.

            My apologies if my vocabulary and use of brackets (to distinguish your words from those inside the brackets) is objectionable. No offense was intended or implied. It’s simply a common technique to show that something has been added.

            Perhaps you are misunderstanding some of the “news channels” and “news reports” that you’ve seen, heard, and read.

            Some of the unaccompanied minors are being placed with family members, not all of whom are their parents. In fact, one complaint that has been made is that there is no verification process to determine if the adults these minors are being placed with are actually related to them.

            This reunification is in accordance with US law.

            The remaining unaccompanied minors are being detained until they can be placed in foster care, if possible, or until a relative can be found in the US.

            Again, this is in accordance with US law.

            You have no way of knowing whether the adults these minors are being placed with are legal US residents, US citizens, or otherwise.

            It is true that these child migrants are here in the US without authorization, and that crossing the border without authorization is, as you wrote, “breaking the law.”

            Whether or not they “belong here” seems to be more of a value judgment than a matter of law.

            Thanks again for your response.

  • Stefano F

    Kids get hired by the maras in El Salvador. Maras infiltrated the Salvadoran schools. If they refuse to join the maras kill them. I know of kids who dropped out of school because of the maras’ threats. Some of those kids who got hired by the maras are sent to the US. Note that the maras control the drug trade and narco menudeo together with the drug mafia. The Maras have their tentacles deep into the US territory and they want to have more people on the ground to ply their trade. As long as the demand for illicit drugs in the US persists, this phenomenon is going to continue.
    Sanchez Ceren who used to be Education Minister in the previous government failed to clean the school system from the maras (together with law enforcement). Maras continue to kidnap, extort business people. So investment in the country is close to none. The present government is weak and unable to solve the problem with the maras. Corrupt policemen, which once they get caught, are dismissed only to join the maras. Crime is institutionalized there. The people who invest in El Salvador are mostly Colombians whitewashing their illegal proceeds.

  • HonestDebate1

    Children crossing the border illegally from Central America numbered just under 4000 in 2011. After his lawless EO it exploded to nearly 21,000 by 2013. The White House was warned about the brewing problem long ago. They did nothing. This is what he wants.

    • Lawrence

      This not what he wanted. Obama wanted to win the Latino vote. That’s why he awarded special status to illegal children during his campaign. He made this mess to the cost of $3 BILLION. It’s a result of a very unfortunate consequence of his decision to grant amnesty to children under 16.

      Obama may be one of the best presidents but I lost respect for him on this one.

  • Karen

    It’s insane that our government is allowing this to happen. The immigration laws should be straight forward. If we are going to allow children from other countries to come to our country, we must say how they will be cared for (food, school, medical, etc) and what the process is to become citizens. And of course that costs money. Where will this money come from? Yes, we must talk about money. When the government votes to cut back on food stamps and other entitlement programs, where is money going to come from to help illegal immigrants?

    We’ve allowed this to happen. Now what? SOme will go back. Some will go to relatives or friends. (Do these people have to be citizens?) Are they up for adoption? What is going to happen to them?

    I understand that people will do anything for their kids but smuggling kids over the border into another country is dangerous and illegal. The parents are probably struggling and afraid. There are parents in this country who are struggling and afraid too. We have kids in this country who live in poor communities with crime and who don’t have enough to eat.
    We need to work on our issues first before adding to our problems.

    • Duras

      I am so sick and tired of my middle class money going to food stamps to feed lazy people. (Even though, all the losses of middle income have been exactly translated into upper class income.) I don’t care. Better to destroy my middle class life, my pensions, my health care, my social security, my medicare, my schools, my universities, and humanity, than raise one tax dollar on someone light years richer than me.

  • dorothaswilliams

    My Uncle
    Riley got an almost new red GMC Canyon just by some parttime working online
    with a laptop. visit their website C­a­s­h­f­i­g­.­C­O­M­

    • HonestDebate1

      Could he not find a blue one?

  • Jack

    Considering that the fiscal policy of the last few decades has been “revenue averse” in the form of unwillingness to consider tax increases or tax loophole closures, I would agree we don’t have enough money to send around the world to spread influence. On the other hand, we might be in a better position if we hadn’t cut taxes and then used the credit card to fight a war that didn’t need to be started in the first place.

  • Godzilla the Intellectual

    Legalize ALL drugs. Establish a national sales tax on drugs. use the national sales tax to fix domestic education and border and immigration policy.

  • hennorama

    Charlyn — thank you for your response.

    Two points:

    1. Your anecdote is about illegal employment and illegal employers..

    2. Legal employment is not limited to “American citizens who live here legal” [sic].

  • april

    I just heard Gov. Patrick say we “are a land of laws” while talking about ILLEGAL immigration…… how hypocritical can you get?

  • april

    These
    “children” are coming to join the parents who abandoned them in the
    ‘dangerous conditions’ in the first place. Find the parents, reunite
    them, send them home.

    If we have empty beds in a military
    installation, they belong to the Veterans! “On any given night, more than
    300,000 veterans are living on the streets or in shelters in the U.S.http://www.veteransinc.org/about-us/statistics/

    If we have extra resources, they
    belong to our own homeless: ”

    As of May 22, 2014, there were approximately 4,600
    families with children and pregnant women in Massachusetts’ Emergency
    Assistance (EA) shelter program. 1,889 of these families with children
    were being sheltered in motels. This number does not count those families
    who are doubled up, living in unsafe conditions, or sleeping in their
    cars– or many of the 5,400 families who have or will time out of the
    state’s HomeBASE rental assistance program during fiscal year 2014. Click here for nightly data on the EA
    program from the Massachusetts Department of Housing and Community
    Development, and here for data on the reasons
    families needed to enter the shelter system.

    During state fiscal year 2013, 4,272 families were
    assisted with emergency shelter, with additional families receiving
    HomeBASE household assistance. More data on the EA and HomeBASE programs
    can be found here.

    2011 data from the Massachusetts Department of Elementary
    and Secondary Education (ESE), released in August 2012, estimates that
    13,157 high school-aged students in public schools are experiencing
    homelessness on any given day in Massachusetts. This number includes an
    estimated 5,853 unaccompanied high school students who are
    experiencing homelessness and not in the custody of their parent or legal
    guardian. To see more data from ESE, click here.

    ESE estimates that there are over 44,000 students
    of all ages experiencing homelessness who are enrolled
    in Massachusetts public schools. In the 2012-2013 academic year,
    public schools across Massachusetts were able to identify and serve 15,812 students who were experiencing homelessness.”

    http://www.mahomeless.org/advocacy/basic-facts

  • Duras

    I saw Jesus at the boarder. He was protesting: “Get these diseased parasites away from our schools. They are lazy. They will be a drag on the economy. And they are causing VA cuts, so that our veterans will die. Send these aliens back to their own land. What do they think they’re entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness or something.”

    Of course, Jesus did sprinkle in lines like, “I’m not racist.” and “I care about children.” Jesus also told me that he’s going to New York harbor next to tear down the Statue of Liberty because it says, “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

    Jesus sounded like that one caller. Boy is that guy walking in the way of Jesus.

    • Karen

      Also Jesus might tell the rich people in this country to give more of their money to feed the lazy single moms and drug addicts and homeless vets. And of course to provide services for the illegal immigrants.

    • pete18

      Jesus, “Sure, abortion’s cool, kill that baby.”

      The “you’re not as compassionate or moral as Jesus” arguments are lame, juvenile and can be used to trash policy on either side of the aisle. Particularly when you invent and caricature the other side’s position.

      Do you believe in open borders?

      • Duras

        You know, Jesus actually doesn’t talk about poor kids whatsoever. In fact, the entire Bible doesn’t talk about poor kids whatsoever. But line after line, Jesus rampages against abortion.

        • pete18

          He doesn’t talk about immigration either but he does ask that you don’t murder.

          Do you believe in open borders?

          • jimino

            “Do you believe in open borders?”

            You mean should companies who move US jobs to low wage foreign countries be able to have access to US markets to sell and profit from those sales? Aren’t they really foreign companies?

            Or maybe you oppose foreign investors being able to control hiring practices at companies located in the USA? Shouldn’t our borders stop that from happening?

            Just what does your question mean?

          • pete18

            You know what it means. Are you willing to answer it?

          • jimino

            When you ask it I know it means people and labor are highly regulated and money and capital, regardless of its impact on people, isn’t. From my comments it’s obvious I don’t believe in them – for either. I think it’s one issue that, properly phrased and presented, unifies many on the left and right.

            The more important question is why your view of what “open borders” means should be the case.

          • pete18

            You are conflating trade and immigration policy, seemingly to avoid the tough questions on immigration. I’m happy to debate trade and money polices with you but those are different questions, despite some philosophic overlap at the edges. Are you telling me that you believe that there are no limits to the number of people that we should let into the country each year?

          • jimino

            Of course not. I’m not a libertarian.

          • pete18

            Then obviously you think it’s reasonable to place limits on people coming across the border and enforcing those limits via border security and the enforcement of current laws.

          • Duras

            I remember abortion coming up several times in the Bible, but it is God who commands people to dash babies on the rocks and rip women’s wombs open.
            In the end, republicans carry the cross on everything that Jesus did not talk about, while they fight against what Jesus fought for. In fact, Jesus gets on the ground with the “sexual deviances,” signaling to leave this stuff to God. And he also didn’t say, “Cut health care from poor families, help the rich, and let the moneychangers do as they please.” He said just the opposite. He was a champion of the poor.

            Republicans follow a more paleolithic form of religion where “might is right,” and the strong and rich are in the favor of God. Religion transformed just after Homer and became more inclined to social justice. The Jews lost a lot of wars and it is no secret as to why the thrust of the Bible concerns social justice. The early Christians in Rome were against wealth and state. They were revolutionaries, but the state caught up, and most people became Constantine Christians. Today, republicans have hijacked Christianity, and they are, more or less, Constantine Christians. Whereas, the real progressive, liberal types are the pre-Church Christians.

          • pete18

            All irrelevant gibberish, related to nothing but the left’s arrogant
            self-image of being more compassionate than the right because it hasn’t a clue about what motivates conservative philosophy.

            There are limits to how many people you can let across the borders. That’s just a fact. One can try to put
            together a sane immigration policy that is enforced, which deals with that
            reality and tries to treat the people that want to come in fairly, or one
            can pretend that we have unlimited resources and agitate that anyone who
            has the gall to point this out isn’t as compassionate as Jesus and therefore
            can’t really be a true Christian.

            If we keep encouraging and letting in large numbers of undocumented workers and their children, outside of the ceiling we set for yearly immigration numbers, there are negative consequences for our own workers, schools and assets. Even
            the most “liberal” immigration policy will have negative outcomes for someone on either side of the border and will create a situation less than pleasing for your version of Jesus.

            Governing is always about choices. You can have an honest and realistic debate about what a good
            immigration policy should look like, or you can stick your head in the sand and get your palms all hairy, by dragging out tired and nasty cliché’s about how uncaring and racist Republicans are.

          • Duras

            Well, tell that to the CBO.
            Most of your reply is a disregard to my argument, and a disregard of history. Obviously, I don’t expect you to get into an anthropology debate. You can take it or leave it. I do think republicans drift between indifference of humanity to hatred of humanity. The party definitely is not filled with human rights nuts. In terms of racism, I think rich republicans are not racist, the just use racism to get working class republicans to vote against their own economic interests. When I argue with rich conservatives, food stamps and welfare never come up. We argue about innovation, investments, and social security. When I argue with working class republicans, investments, innovation, and social security almost never come up, but they rail against food stamps and boarder security. Now that’s antidotal evidence, but I’ve seen it my entire life. I grew up in the South, and I was taught the coded, racist language–the dog whistle politics of the right.

            Not to mention, the same language used today, was used in the 1950s and 1960s with the n-word attached. After Civil Rights, those dixicrats became republicans, and dropped the n-word from the rhetoric, but the rest of the sentences are exactly the same.

            Second, there is a sociology study showing that white people are moving around more white people with the increase of minority-majority, creating very conservative white-topias. The evidence is pretty convincing. Racism begins at the inability to see the other in the self, yet empathy is slowly becoming a bad word in conservative circles.

          • Duras

            By the way, I’ve read Hobbs and Burke, the only two conservative philosophers. Buckley and Rand and all others live in their shadows. There are many philosophers, yet only two are conservative.

      • Duras

        I read history. And I trust the CBO, and they say immigration would benefit the economy. In fact, adding young people would bolster social security and medicare. And that’s the real reason why republican politicians don’t want immigration. That reason, and that it is a powerful tool to create xenophobia in order to get morons to vote against their own economic interests.

        • pete18

          You didn’t answer my question.

          • Duras

            Well, you are putting it in a stupid term – “open boarders” – made to serve your purpose, which is to make liberals look like – to borrow a Bill O’Reilly word – loons.

            I think we should let anybody without a criminal record and under the age of 40 in.

            And I don’t see republicans protesting about Swiss doctors taking all are doctor jobs, by the way. And I’ve heard the rationale, over and over: Asians are alright to come in, but the Hispanics are lazy and don’t work … they are parasites and they will drain our economy. You know, the same kind of stuff the Nazis were saying about the Jews. Not that the consequences are the same, but in effect, sending these children back is signing a death sentence for a sizable number. In the end, everybody works–it’s just that some are exploited by rich people who refuse to pay living wages, let alone middle class wages, so the taxpayer picks up the rest of the wages so families can survive. Oh, racial scapegoating, thou art a so powerful. Why can’t people see that the rich are using it as a weapon against white working class republicans…?

            Not saying that’s necessarily you, but that is the gist of the republican party.

          • pete18

            Good, you found a way to compare Republicans to Nazis in the second paragraph, nicely done.

            So, no limit in the overall number? No specific requirements to work here, or become a citizen? No restrictions based on health, viruses or diseases? As many people as can come over that are under 40? No preferred status for workers who can provide needed skills?

          • Duras

            See, the problem you have is that you don’t understand that all human beings are basically the same. We want to work, we want to be creative, we all want to live.

            Yes, there are a few outliers.
            And how can a republican begin to bring up restrictions on health when they oppose nationalized healthcare so vigorously? I see everyday stories about Americans not vaccinating their children.

            Second, numbers of people don’t matter. Anyone who understands the laws of supply and demand; i.e., how an economy works, knows this.

        • HonestDebate1

          Immigration is fine, no one has a problem with it.

          • Duras

            Except for brown immigrant. Then you’ll make the laws impossible to follow, and repeat like a fascist, “The law is the law.”

          • HonestDebate1

            BS Duras.

          • april

            This has nothing to do with skin color. Trying to hide behind the finger-pointing, open mouth screaming racist xenophobe doesn’t cut it. The people protesting illegal immigration come from all walks of life, all races, all belief systems. Find a real argument.
            This is about large corporations depressing wages by bringing workers in from around the world, legally and illegally.
            I don’t give a damn where you’re from, as long as you’re here legally and weren’t brought in on an H1b visa.

          • M. J. DeMenna

            Large corporations keep wages down by stepping on unions and corrupting our elected officials to sign free trade agreements. Immigration doesn’t matter when corporations can move to countries that allow their citizens to be exploited.
            And it is xenophobia. There are studies showing white people migrating to whiter communities at the same frequency as the growing minority population. And it’s not like the whole “browning of America” rhetoric doesn’t give the right wing away.

          • april

            sorry M… that old sad label doesn’t work… I have a family of many skin colors, and I see nothing but love when I look at them.
            I don’t care if someone is from Europe, Canada, Africa, or Asia… if you come here illegally, leave.

      • jimino

        For money and capital? Or just for human beings and agricultural products?

        • pete18

          Human beings and agricultural products.

          • jimino

            How about corporations? They’re people too aren’t they?

    • april

      ” What do they think they’re entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness or something.””
      People are ‘entitled’ to work to make things better in their own country.
      People are NOT ‘entitled’ to anything in a country they broke the laws to enter/stay.

      • M. J. DeMenna

        When an argument rests upon “the law is the law” attitude, the argument is lost. There are unjust laws. There’s no shame in putting humanity before profit–in fact, the other ways is shameful.

        • april

          soooo…..if I think a law is unjust, I get to ignore it?

  • april

    Agree with the sentiment, not the solution. Look at your candidate- not just the sound bites and what the spin doctor speech writers tell them to say.

    Find out what corporation they work(ed) at and how they ran it. Did they hire a lot of H1b visas? Fire older workers so they could hire cheaper, younger ones? Do they get paid millions of dollars and want more?

    Watch for the revolving door of politics to corporate – check out who’s running the FDA and Monsanto.

    Vote for a person, not a party. THIS is the only way out of this mess.

  • Another U.S. Latino

    Seriously? On Point had this guy on this show who had the nerve to imply correlations drawn between U.S. involvement during Central American civil wars and today’s emigration from the region is made up by people with political agendas? His Twitter account screams ideologue. As a Central American who migrated here during the period U.S. backed forces prolonged brutal conflict in Central America (who is also no fan of the “headliner” leftist leaders in Latin America), I find his argument hubris. No wonder he’s a Bush era “official” . https://twitter.com/JoseCardenasUSA

  • Regular_Listener

    It is truly painful what is happening with some of these young people, and the USA should be willing to lend a hand and to treat them compassionately, but they should still be sent home. They are not Americans and are not the responsibility of the USA. What we should be doing is offering support to Guatemala and other Central American nations for help with family planning, birth control, education, and employment.

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