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Week In The News: Middle East Violence, Plane Crash In Ukraine, Immigration At Home

With guest host Bob Oakes.

Turmoil and violence in Israel and Gaza. New Russia sanctions. Immigration battle.

A woman walks at the site of a crashed Malaysia Airlines passenger plane near the village of Rozsypne, eastern Ukraine Friday, July 18, 2014. (AP)

A woman walks at the site of a crashed Malaysia Airlines passenger plane near the village of Rozsypne, eastern Ukraine Friday, July 18, 2014. (AP)

Shock this week, over another Malaysia Airlines flight: this one down over Eastern Ukraine. Apparently — said Vice President Joe Biden — “not an accident, blown out of the sky.” What comes next is far from certain. In the Middle East, Israeli tanks roll into Gaza, in a ground assault that may expand. At home, the immigration debate keeps heating up around migrant kids and the border. Chris Christie soaks up GOP love in Iowa. GM CEO back in the hot seat. LeBron back to Cleveland. This hour On point: our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

Guests

Tim Grieve, editor-in-chief of the National Journal. (@timgrieve)

Trudy Rubin, Worldview columnist for the Philadelphia Inquirer. (@trudyrubin)

Jack Beatty, On Point news analyst.

From The Reading List

Philadelphia Inquirer: Awful truths about Gaza war –”Israelis have been lulled into believing the status quo can last. In part this is because PA security forces have helped Israel keep the West Bank quiet for the past seven years. They have helped to control Hamas on the West Bank and offered to help patrol the Gaza-Egypt border if a cease-fire with Hamas can be reached.”

National Journal: There’s No Explanation for the Central American Trafficking Law ‘Loophole’ — “The statistics on unaccompanied alien children provide another explanation for the distinction, although it’s a lame one. In 2009, 83 percent of unaccompanied child illegal entrants were Mexican. There were 16,000 of them. It wasn’t logistically possible to give them all the protections that were afforded the roughly 3,000 other kids who crossed the border on their own.”

BBC News: Malaysia airliner crashes in east Ukraine near Russia border – “A Malaysian airliner with 295 people on board has crashed in Ukraine on a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, amid allegations it was shot down. Dozens of bodies are scattered around what is believed to be the wreckage of the jet near the village of Grabovo, a Reuters correspondent reports.Flight MH17 had been due to enter Russian airspace when contact was lost.”

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  • SteveTheTeacher

    “I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan.” – Benjamin Netanyahu (http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-finally-speaks-his-mind/)

    “Anyone with a ceasefire initiative guaranteeing the Palestinian conditions should come and speak to us; Hamas will never accept an initiative that does not address these conditions . . . the [Israeli] occupation only responds under pressure.” Sami Abu Zuhri, Hamas
    (http://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-slams-arab-betrayal-in-rejecting-egyptian-truce-bid/)

    As those in power become more intransigent, the suffering of the people grows.

    The Hamas government deserves condemnation for terrorizing the population of Israel with its campaign of missiles aimed at Israel. One of these rockets murdered of Dror Khenin and, as a result, left his family without a husband and father. This is a war crime.

    The Israeli government deserves condemnation for its unconscionable occupation of Palestine, its expropriation of Palestinian land for Israeli settlements and the separation wall, its arrest of masses of Palestinians on questionable grounds, its demolition of homes of Palestinians, its destruction infrastructure for water and electricity, its diversion of fresh water resources flowing into Gaza, its destruction of Palestinian olive groves, its disruption of the Palestinian fishing industry, its blockade, and its murder of hundreds of Palestinian civilians including approximately 50 children.

    The Israeli government argument that “Hamas left them no choice” regarding the bombing and ground offensive is as specious as that of a wife batterer who claims that its his wife’s fault that he beat her up.

    From the Gaza Health Ministry:

    Tuesday, July 8:
    1. Mohammed Sha’aban, 24, was killed in a bombing of his car in Gaza City.
    2. Ahmad Sha’aban, 30, died in the same bombing.
    3. Khadir al-Bashiliki, 45, died in the same bombing.
    4. Rashad Yaseen, 27, was killed in a bombing of the Nusseirat refugee camp in central Gaza.
    5. Riad Mohammed Kawareh, 50, was killed in a bombing of his family’s home in Khan Younis.
    6. Seraj Ayad Abed al-A’al, 8, was wounded in the same bombing and succumbed to his injuries on Tuesday evening.
    7. Mohammed Ayman Ashour, 15, died in the same bombing.
    8. Bakr Mohammed Joudah, 22, died in the same bombing.
    9. Ammar Mohammed Joudah, 26, died in the same bombing.
    10. Hussein Yousef Kawareh, 13, died in the same bombing.
    11. Mohammed Ibrahim Kawareh, 50, died in the same bombing.
    12. Bassim Salim Kawareh, 10, died in the same bombing.
    13. Mousa Habib, 16, from Gaza City’s al-Shujaiyah neighborhood, was killed along with his 22-year old cousin while the pair were riding a motorcycle.
    14. Mohammed Habib, 22, was killed with Mousa Habib.
    15. Sakr Aysh al-Ajouri, 22, was killed in an attack on Jabalia, in northern Gaza.
    16. Ahmad Na’el Mehdi, 16, from Gaza City’s Sheikh Radwan neighborhood, was killed in a bombing that wounded two of his friends.
    17. Hafiz Mohammed Hamad, 30, an Islamic Jihad commander, was killed in the bombing of his home in Beit Hanoun, along with five of his family members.
    18. Ibrahim Mohammed Hamad, 26, died in the same bombing.
    19. Mehdi Mohammed Hamad, 46, died in the same bombing.
    20. Fawzia Khalil Hamad, 62, died in the same bombing.
    21. Dunia Mehdi Hamad, 16, died in the same bombing.
    22. Suha Hamad, 25, died in the same bombing.
    23. Suleiman Salman Abu Soaween, 22

    Wednesday, July 9:
    24. Abdelhadi Jamaat al-Sufi, 24, was killed in a bombing near the Rafah crossing.
    25. Naifeh Farjallah, 80, was killed in an airstrike on the town of Moghraqa, southwest of Gaza City.
    26. Abdelnasser Abu Kweek, 60, was killed in the bombing of Gaza’s central governorate along with his son.
    27. Khaled Abu Kweek, 31, Abdelnasser Abu Kweek’s son, was killed in the same bombing.
    28. Mohammed Areef, 13, died in a bombing in Sha’af.
    28. Amir Areef, 10, died in the same bombing.
    30. Mohammed Malakiyeh, 18 months old, died in a bombing along with his mother and a young man.
    31. Hana Malakiyeh, 27, Mohammed Malakiyeh’s mother, died in the same bombing.
    32. Hatem Abu Salem, 28, died in the same bombing.
    33. Mohammed Khaled al-Nimri, 22
    34. Sahar Hamdan, 40, died in the bombing of her home in Beit Hanoun.
    35. Ibrahim Masri, 14, Sahar Hamdan’s son, was killed in the same bombing.
    36. Mahmoud Nahid al-Nawasra was killed in a bombing in al-Meghazi.
    37. Mohammed Khalaf al-Nawasra, 4, was killed in the same bombing and arrived at the hospital “in shreds.”
    38. Nidal Khalaf al-Nawasra al-Meghazi, 5, was killed in the same bombing.
    39. Salah Awwad al-Nawasra al-Meghazi, 6, was killed in the same bombing. His body was found under the rubble of the house.
    40. Aisha Nijm al-Meghazi, 20, was killed in the same bombing.
    41. Amal Youssef Abdel Ghafour, 27, was killed in a bombing in Khan Younis.
    42. Ranim Jawde Abdel Ghafour, an 18-month-old girl, was killed in the same bombing.
    43. Rashid al-Kafarneh, 30, was killed when the motorcycle he was riding was bombed.
    44. Ibrahim Daoud al-Balawi, 24
    45. Abdelrahman Jamal al-Zamli, 22
    46. Ibrahim Ahmad Abideen, 42
    47. Mustafa Abu Mar, 20
    48. Khalid Abu Mar, 23
    49. Mazen Farj al-Jarbah, 30, was killed in a bombing in Deir al-Balah.
    50. Marwan Slim, 27, was killed in a bombing in Deir al-Balah.
    51. Hani Saleh Hamad, 57, was killed in a bombing in Beit Hanoun along with his son Ibrahim.
    52. Ibrahim Hamad, 20, was killed in the same bombing.
    53. Salima Hassan Musallim al-Arja, 60, was killed in a bombing in Rafah that wounded five others.
    54. Maryam Atieh Mohammed al-Arja, 11, was killed in the same bombing.
    55. Hamad Shahab, 37
    56. Ibrahim Khalil Qanun, 24, was killed in a bombing of Khan Younis.
    57. Mohammed Khalil Qanun, 26, was killed in the same attack.
    58. Hamdi Badieh Sawali, 33, was killed in the same attack.
    59. Ahmad Sawali, 28, was killed in the same attack.
    60. Suleiman Salim al-Astal, 55, was killed in a bombing of Khan Younis.
    61. Mohammed al-Aqqad, 24
    62. Ra’ed Shalat, 37, was killed in a bombing that wounded 6 others.

    Thursday, July 10:
    63. Asma Mahmoud al-Hajj, 22, was killed in a bombing in Khan Younis that killed eight members of the same family and wounded 16 other people.
    64. Basmah Abdelfattah al-Hajj, 57, was wounded in the bombing and succumbed to her injuries shortly afterwards.
    65. Mahmoud Lutfi al-Hajj, 58, died in the same bombing.
    66. Tarek Mahmoud al-Hajj, 18, died in the same bombing.
    67. Sa’ad Mahmoud al-Hajj, 17, died in the same bombing.
    68. Najla Mahmoud al-Hajj, 29, died in the same bombing.
    69. Fatima Mahmoud al-Hajj, 12, died in the same bombing.
    70. Omar Mahmoud al-Hajj, 20, died in the same bombing.
    71. Ahmad Salim al-Astal, 24, was killed in the bombing of a beach house in Khan Younis that critically wounded more than 15 people.
    72. Mousa Mohammed al-Astal, 50, was killed in the same bombing. The two bodies were recovered four hours after the bombing.
    73. Ra’ed al-Zawareh, 33, succumbed to his wounds and died. The location of his death was unreported.
    74. Baha’ Abu al-Leil, 35, was killed in a bombing.
    75. Salim Qandil, 27, was killed in the same bombing.
    76. Omar al-Fyumi, 30, was killed in the same bombing.
    77. Abdullah Ramadan Abu Ghazzal, 5, was killed in a bombing in Beit Lahiya.
    78. Ismail Hassan Abu Jamah, 19, was killed in a bombing in Khan Younis that injured two children, one critically.
    79. Hassan Awda Abu Jamah, 75, was killed in a bombing in Khan Younis.
    80. Mohammed Ahsan Ferwanah, 27, was killed in a bombing in Khan Younis.
    81. Yasmin Mohammed Mutawwaq, 4 was killed in a bombing in Beit Hanoun.
    82. Mahmoud Wulud, 26, was killed in a bombing of a civilian vehicle in northern Gaza. His remains were taken to Kamal Adwan Hospital in Jabalia.
    83. Hazem Balousha, 30, was killed in the same bombing. His remains are at Kamal Adwan Hospital.
    84. Nour Rafik Adi al-Sultan, 27, was killed in the same bombing. His remains are at Kamal Adwan Hospital.
    85. Ahmad Zaher Hamdan, 24, was killed in a bombing in Beit Hanoun.
    86. Mohammed Kamal al-Kahlout, 25, was killed in a bombing in Jabalia.
    87. Sami Adnan Shaldan, 25, was killed in a bombing in Gaza City.
    88. Jamah Atieh Shalouf, 25, was killed in a bombing in Rafah.
    89. Bassem Abdelrahman Khattab, 6, was killed in a bombing in Deir al-Balah.
    90. Abdullah Mustafa Abu Mahrouk, 22, was killed in a bombing in Deir al-Balah.

    Friday, July 11:
    91. Anas Rizk Abu al-Kas, 33, was killed in a bombing in Gaza City.
    92. Nour Marwan al-Najdi, 10, was killed in a bombing in Rafah.
    93. Mohammed Mounir Ashour, 25, was killed in a bombing on the al-Ghanam family home in Rafah.
    94. Ghalia Deeb Jabr al-Ghanam, 7, was killed in the same bombing.
    95. Wasim Abd al-Rizk Hassan al-Ghanam, 23, was killed in the same bombing.
    96. Mahmoud Abd al-Rizk Hassan al-Ghanam, 26, was killed in the same bombing.
    97. Kifah Shahada Deeb al-Ghanam, 20, was killed in the same bombing.
    98. Ra’ed Hani Abu Hani, 31, was killed in a bombing in Rafah.
    99. Shahraman Ismail Abu al-Kas, 42, was killed in a bombing in a refugee camp in central Gaza.
    100. Mazen Mustafa Aslan, 63, was killed in the same bombing.
    101. Mohammed Rabih Abu Humeidan, 65, was killed in shelling that struck northern Gaza.
    102. Abdel Halim Ashra, 54, was killed in an airstrike on Wednesday in the area of Birka Deir al-Balah, but his body wasn’t discovered until Friday.
    103. Saher Abu Namous, 3, was killed in an airstrike on his home in northern Gaza.
    104. Hussein al-Mamlouk, 47, was killed in an airstrike on Gaza City.
    105. Saber Sukkar, 80, was killed in an airstrike on Gaza City.
    106. Nasser Rabih Mohammed Samamah, 49, was killed in an airstrike on Gaza City.

    Saturday, July 12:
    107. Rami Abu Massaad, 23, was killed in a strike on Deir al-Balah.
    108. Mohammed al-Samiri, 24, was killed in the same attack.
    109. Houssam Deeb al-Razayneh, 39, was killed in an attack on Jabalia.
    110. Anas Youssef Kandil, 17, was killed in the same bombing.
    111. Abdel Rahim Saleh al-Khatib, 38, was killed in the same bombing.
    112. Youssef Mohammed Kandil, 33, was killed in the same bombing.
    113. Mohammed Idriss Abu Saninah, 20, was killed in the same bombing.
    114. Hala Wishahi, 31, was killed in an attack on the Mabarra association for the disabled in Jabalia.
    115. Suha Abu Saade, 38, was killed in the same attack.
    116. Ali Nabil Basal, 32, was killed in a strike on western Gaza City.
    117. Mohammed Bassem al-Halabi, 28, was killed in the same strike.
    118. Mohammed al-Sowayti (Abu Askar), 20, was killed in the same strike.
    119. Ibrahim Nabil Humaide, 30, was killed in a bombing in the Tufah neighborhood in eastern Gaza City.
    120. Hassan Ahmed Abu Ghoush, 24, was killed in the same attack.
    121. Ahmed Mahmoud al-Ballaoui, 26, was killed in the same attack.
    122. Ratib Sabahi al-Sifi, 22, was killed in a bombing in Gaza City along with five others.
    123. Azmi Mahmoud Abid, 51, was killed in the same attack.
    124. Nidal Mahmoud Abu al-Malish, 22, was killed in the same attack.
    125. Suleiman Said Abid, 56, was killed in the same attack.
    126. Ghassan Ahmad al-Masri, 25, was killed in the same attack.
    127. Mustafa Mohammed Anaieh, 58, was killed in the same attack.
    128. Rafa’at Youssef Amer, 36, succumbed to wounds sustained in a bombing in Gaza City.
    129. Ghazi Mustafa Areef, 62, died when his home in Gaza City was bombed. His son sustained serious injuries.
    130. Mohammed Adriss Abu Sulim, 20, was killed in a bombing in Jabaliya.
    131. Fadi Yaqub Sakr, 25, was killed in a bombing in Gaza City.
    132. Qassem Jaber Adwan Awdeh, 16, was killed in a bombing in Khan Younis.
    133. Mohammed Ahmad Bassal, 19, was killed in a bombing in Gaza City.
    134. Muhannad Youssef Dhahir, 23, was killed in a bombing in Rafah.
    135. Mahmoud Abdallah Shratiha, 53, was killed in a bombing in north Gaza.
    136. Shadi Mohammed Zarb, 21, was killed in a bombing in Rafah that wounded three others.
    137. Imad Bassam Zarb, 21, was killed in the same bombing.
    138. Nahid Ta’im al-Batash, 41, was killed in a bombing in Gaza City along with 16 family members. Dozens more were wounded in the same attack.
    139. Baha Majid al-Batash, 28, was killed in the same bombing.
    140. Qassi Isam al-Batash, 12, was killed in the same bombing.
    141. Aziza Youssef al-Batash, 59 was killed in the same bombing.
    142. Mohammed Isam al-Batash, 17 was killed in the same bombing.
    143. Ahmad Naman al-Batash, 27 was killed in the same bombing.
    144. Yahya Alaa al-Batash, 18 was killed in the same bombing.
    145. Jalal Majid al-Batash, 26 was killed in the same bombing.
    146. Mahmoud Majid al-Batash, 22 was killed in the same bombing.
    147. Marwa Majid al-Batash, 25 was killed in the same bombing.
    148. Majid Subhi al-Batash was killed in the same bombing.
    149. Khalid Majid al-Batash, 20 was killed in the same bombing.
    150. Ibrahim Majid al-Batash, 18 was killed in the same bombing.
    151. Manar Majid al-Batash, 14 was killed in the same bombing.
    152. Amal Hassan al-Batash, 49 was killed in the same bombing.
    153. Anas Alaa al-Batash, 10 was killed in the same bombing.
    154. Qassi Alaa al-Batash was killed in the same bombing.

    Sunday, July 13:
    155. Rami Abu Shanab, 25, succumbed to wounds sustained several days ago in Deir al-Balah.
    156. Khawla al-Hawajri, 25, was killed in a bombing in Nusseirat.
    157. Mohammed Ghazi Areef, 35, was killed in a bombing in Gaza City.
    158. Ahmad Youssef Daloul, 47, was killed in a bombing in Gaza City.
    159. Hijaziyah Hamid al-Helou, 80, succumbed to wounds sustained in the bombing of her home in Gaza City on Saturday night.
    160. Fawzia Abdela’el, 73, was killed in a bombing in Gaza City.
    161. Haitham Ashraf Zarb, 21, succumbed to wounds sustained during an attack on Rafah on Saturday that killed two other members of the Zarb family.
    162. Leila Hassan al-Awdat, 41, was killed in an attack on Meghazi that wounded four others.
    163. Hussam Ibrahim al-Najjar, 14, was killed in a bombing in north Gaza. His remains were taken to Beit Hanoun Hospital.
    164. Rawidah Abu Harb al-Zwaida, 31, was killed.
    165. Samer Tallal Hamdan was killed in a bombing in Beit Hanoun.
    166. Hussein Abd al-Qadir Muheisen, 19, succumbed to wounds sustained in Gaza City.
    167. Maher Thabit Abu Mar, 24, was killed in a bombing in Rafah.
    168. Mohammed Salim Abu Bureis, 65, was killed in a bombing in Deir al-Balah.
    169. Saddam Moussa Moamar, 23, was killed in Khan Younis.
    170. Mousa Shehade Moamar, 60, was killed in Khan Younis.
    171. Hanadi Hamadi Moamar, 27, was killed in Khan Younis.
    172. Adham Mohammed Abed el-Fatah Abed el-Al, was killed in Gaza.

    Monday, July 14:
    173. Qassem Tallal Hamdan, 23, was killed in Beit Hanoun.
    174. Hamid Suleiman Abu al-Araj Deir al-Balah, 60.
    175. Abdullah Mahmoud Barakah, 24, was killed in Khan Younis.
    176. Tamer Salem Kodeih, 37, was killed in Khan Younis.
    177. Ziad Maher al-Najjar, 17, was killed in Khan Younis.
    178. Ziad Salem al-Shawi, 25, was killed in Rafah.
    179. Mohammed Yasser Hamdan, 24, was killed in Gaza.
    180. Mohammed Shakib al-Agha, 22, was killed in Khan Younis.
    181. Mohammed Younis Abu Youssif, 25, was killed in Khan Younis.
    182. Sara Omar Sheikh al-Eid, 4, was killed in Rafah.
    183. Omar Ahmad Sheikh al-Eid, 24, was killed in Rafah.
    184. Jihad Ahmad Sheikh al-Eid, 48, was killed in Rafah.
    185. Kamal Ated Youssif Abu Taha, 16, was killed in Khan Younis.
    186. Ismail Nabil Ahmad Abu Hatab, 21, was killed in Khan Younis.

    Tuesday, July 15:
    187. Ahmad Younis Abu Youssif, 28, was killed in Khan Younis.
    188. Bushra Khalil Zoarob, 53, was killed in Rafah.
    189. Atwa Amira al-Maamour, 63, was killed in Khan Younis.
    190. Ismail Salim al-Najjar, 46, was killed in Khan Younis.
    191. Mohammed Ahmad Ibrahim al-Najjar, 49, was killed in Khan Younis.
    192. Suleiman Abu Louli, 33, was killed in Khan Younis.
    193. Sobhi Abed el-Hamid Moussa, 77, was killed in Khan Younis.
    194. Ismail Ftouh, 24, was killed in Gaza.
    195. Saleh Said Dahliz Rafah, 20, was killed in Rafah.
    196. Yasser Abed el-Mahmoun, 18, was killed in Rafah.
    197. Ibrahim Khalil al-Asaafi, 66, was killed in Jiher el-Deek
    198. Mohammed Abdullah al-Zahouk, 23, was killed in Rafah.
    199. Mohammed Ismail Abu Awda, 27, was killed in Rafah.

    Wednesday, July 16:
    200. Mohammed Sabri al-Dibari, 20, was killed in Rafah.
    201. Abdullah Mohammed Abdullah al-Irjani, 19, was killed in Khan Younis.
    202. Ahmad Adel Ahmad al-Niwajha, 23, was killed in Rafah.
    203. Mohammed Tayseer Sharab, 23, was killed in Khan Younis.
    204. Farid Mohammed Abu Daqa, 33, was killed in Khan Younis.
    205. Ashraf Khalil Abu Shanab, 33, was killed in Rafah.
    206. Khadra al-Abd Salama Abu Daqa, 65, was killed in an attack on Khan Younis.
    207. Omar Ramadan Hassan Abu Daqa, 24, was killed in the same attack.
    208. Ibrahim Ramadan Hassan Abu Daqa, 10, was killed in the same attack.
    209. Abdelrahman Ibrahim Khalil al-Sarkhi, 37, was killed in an attack on Gaza City.
    210. Ahed Atef Bakr, 10, was killed on a beach in Gaza.
    211. Zakaria Ahed Bakr, 10, was killed on a beach in Gaza.
    212. Mohammed Ramez Bakr, 11, was killed on a beach in Gaza.
    213. Ismail Mohammed Bakr, 9, was killed on a beach in Gaza.
    214. Hamza Ra’ed Thari, 6, succumbed to wounds sustained “a few days ago” and passed away.
    215. Mohammed Akram Abu Amer, 34, was killed in an attack on Khan Younis.
    216. Kamal Mohammed Abu Amer, 38, Mohammed’s brother, was reported seriously injured and then dead in the same attack.
    217. Raqia al-Astal, 70, was killed in the bombing of a mosque in Khan Younis which killed at least three others and critically wounded several children.
    218. Yasmin al-Astal, 4, was killed in the same attack.
    219. Hussein Abdelnasser al-Astal, 23, was killed in the same attack.
    220. Usama Mahmoud al-Astal, 6, was critically wounded in the same attack and succumbed to his wounds shortly afterwards.
    221. Hossam Shamlakh, 23, succumbed to wounds sustained in an attack on Sheikh Ajlin.
    222. Mohammed Kamal Abdelrahman, 30, was killed in an attack on Sheikh Ajlin.

    Thursday, July 17:
    223. Mohammed Mahmoud al-Qadim, 22, succumbed to wounds sustained in Deir al-Balah.
    224. Zeinab Mohammed Saeed al-Abadleh, 70, died of her wounds in the Gaza European hospital.
    225. Mohammed Abdelrahman Hassouneh, 67, was killed in an attack on Rafah.
    226. Mohammed Ahmad al-Hout, 41, was killed in the same attack while on his way to morning prayers.
    227. Ahmad Rihan, 23, was killed in an attack on North Gaza.
    228. Salam Salah Fayyad, 25, succumbed to his wounds in a hospital in Gaza’s central province.
    229. Abdallah al-Akhras, 27, was killed in an attack on Rafah.
    230. Bashir Abd al-A’el, 20, was killed in the same attack.
    231. Mohammed Ziyad Ghanem, 25, was killed in the same attack.
    232. Fulla Tarek Shaheber, 8, was killed along with two child relatives in an airstrike on their home in Gaza City.
    233. Jihad Issam Shaheber, 10, was killed in the same strike.
    234. Wassim Issam Shaheber, 9, was killed in the same strike.
    235. Yassin al-Humaideh, 4, died of wounds suffered in an earlier attack on Gaza City.
    236. Rahaf Khalil al-Jabbour, 4, was killed in an attack in Khan Younis.
    237. Hamza Houssam al-Abadaleh, 29, was killed in an attack on Khan Younis.
    238. Abed Ali Natiz, 26, was killed in Gaza.
    239. Mohammed Salem Natiz, 4, was killed in Gaza.
    240. Mohammed Shadi Natiz, 15, was killed in Gaza.
    241. Salah Salah al-Shafiai, was killed in Khan Younis.
    242. Majdi Suleiman Salamah Jabarah, 22, was killed in Rafah.
    243. Fares Jomaa al-Mahmoum, 5 months old, was killed in Rafah.

    • JONBOSTON

      Hamas human shields , all of them. Your moral equivalency is nothing short of despicable. I pity the poor students who are exposed to your idiocy…

      • SteveTheTeacher

        ” I pity the poor students who are exposed to your idiocy…” – JONBOSTON

        I suggest that you reserve your pity for yourself JonBoston.

        Ad hominem attacks indicate one’s inability to offer cogent reasoned defense of one’s ideas. This reflects very poorly on you JonBoston.

        “Hamas human shields , all of them.”

        This comment mirrors the dissembling of the Israeli government.

        Of the, now 260, Palestinians murdered by Israel, many were killed when Israeli forces bombed their homes. All reports on their deaths indicate that they were killed when inside their homes. Their bodies had to be removed from the rubble of the houses which collapsed on top of them. Can you site even one report from a reputable journalist that indicates that any of the Palestinians murdered by Israel was on a roof at the time they were killed?

        Can you site even one report from a reputable journalist that would indicate that any of the over 2000 Palestinians that Israeli forces have wounded, were wounded when on a roof?

        • JONBOSTON

          They are all Hamas human shields. Any group that stores weapons and fires rockets near schools, hospitals , mosques and in residential areas deserves our moral outrage and condemnation as grotesque savages and barbarians. The only ones worse are those that defend and enable these outrages. I pity the poor students exposed to your garbage.

          • SteveTheTeacher

            Justifying the mass murder of civilians because one believes that there are military targets nearby is a version of the extremist ideology of followers of Osama Bin Laden who justified the targeting of the World Trade center because some military related planning took place within.

            It as a crime against humanity for the Israeli government, or any entity, to carry out military attacks that they know will murder large numbers of civilians.

            I suggest, JonBoston, that you recognize that you can learn to share ideas with those, with whom you disagree, without dehumanizing them as “savages and barbarians” or “worse”.

          • William

            There is only so much a country can do to safeguard the lives of civilians in war. Israel had done more than a reasonable man would expect so until the Arab terrorists stop attacking Israel the situation will only get worse.

          • JONBOSTON

            Plain spoken common sense and so true. Thank you.

          • SteveTheTeacher

            Those who are honest understand that all people, groups, nations, have room for improvement. On the contrary those who support Israel refuse to accept any critique of the Israeli government.

            Yes, Hamas leaders have committed war crimes and should be held accountable for their crimes.

            Yet, the Israeli government has murdered over 265 Palestinians, approximately 75-80% were civilians. Amnesty International and Human Rights which have criticized Israeli government attacks as crimes against humanity.

            Navay Pillay of the UN has stated:

            “We have received deeply disturbing reports that many of the civilian casualties, including of children, occurred as a result of strikes on homes. Such reports raise serious doubt about whether the Israeli strikes have been in accordance with international humanitarian law and international human rights law,”

          • Human2013

            Do you expect God’s chosen people to admit partial fault?

          • William

            Hamas just has to stop shooting rockets and the civilian deaths come to a end. Until that happens Israel has the right to defend itself.

          • SteveTheTeacher

            Is the Israeli government is beyond reproach for actions such as targeting a hospital with paralyzed patients?
            (http://www.btselem.org/press_release/20140716_al_wafa_hospital)

            “Hamas just has to stop shooting rockets and the civilian deaths come to a end.”

            This meets the definition of terrorism as laid out in the UN Convention against terrorist bombings:

            “Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person unlawfully and intentionally delivers, places, discharges or detonates an explosive or other lethal device in, into or against a place of public use, a State or government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructure facility:

            (a) With the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or

            (b) With the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss.”

            (http://www.un.org/law/cod/terroris.htm)

          • William

            Actually, Israel is entirely correct in their defense of their country. Hama does not have a legal or moral leg to stand on and they know it. Israel is the one that been attacked, for years, and it’s time for some law enforcement action against Hamas.

          • SteveTheTeacher

            Refusal to acknowledge any room for improvement in how the Israeli government treats Palestinians is disingenuous.

            Contradiction and flaws are universal inherent aspect of all human beings and the groups that they form, all have the ability to improve upon their shortcomings and there is always room for growth and improvement in all interpersonal/intergroup relations.

            Are you suggesting that the government of Israel is an exception?

            Are you suggesting that everything the government of Israel does, with respect to the Palestinians in Gaza is perfect and that the Israeli government has no room for improvement?

            I have even heard Israeli military leaders acknowledge room for improvement.

            When peace talks resume, and they will resume, I hope those involved demonstrate a greater ability than you, to be empathetic and self-critical.

          • JONBOSTON

            Answer my questions, do you doubt that Hamas is placing rockets and weapons near or in schools , hospitals , and residential areas? Do you doubt that Hamas firing thousands of rockets into Israel is for the purpose of killing as many Israelis as possible? Why did Hamas reject the cease fire offered by the Egyptians , accepted by Israel, and supported by world leaders including the Arab League? Do you think the savages and barbarians who murdered the three Israeli teens will ever be caught and punished by Hamas?

            For your information , a UN agency serving the Palestinians reported just yesterday that it discovered a weapons cache in a local Gaza school. Your moral equivalency is disgusting and your intellectualizing and excusing savagery and uncivilized conduct is reprehensible. I pity the students exposed to your garbage.

          • SteveTheTeacher

            “Answer my questions,” – JonBoston

            You refuse to answer my questions as the existence of any credible journalistic reporting to specific documentation that a targeted Palestinian home was being used to shield Hamas weapons. Nonetheless, you demand that I answer your questions.

            The arrogance and entitlement of your response suggests immaturity. I encourage you to dialog in a respectful and reflective manner.

            Yes Hamas does place rockets in civilian areas. Hamas leaders should be held accountable for all of their war crimes. However, as Amnesty International has stated:

            “Unless the Israeli authorities can provide specific information to show how a home is being used to make an effective contribution to military actions, deliberately attacking civilian homes constitutes a war crime and also amounts to collective punishment against the families.”

            As to the rejection of the Egyptian peace plan, it is common knowledge that the Egyptian government is opposed to Hamas. The Egyptian government developed the peace plan with the collaboration of Israel and without consultation of Palestinian authorities. Hamas has outlined what it is looking for in a peace plan as part of a 10 year truce with the Israeli government (see below). The final peace plan may not include all of Hamas’ demands, but the demand of the Israeli government and Palestinian’s should be addressed in a manner that both sides find acceptable.

            The terms reportedly proposed by the Hamas terror group are as follows:

            1. Return of IDF tank positions so that farmers can work their lands

            2. Freeing of all prisoners arrested since June 23 (when 3 Israeli teens were killed by Hamas operatives), and improving the conditions of those currently in prison.

            3. Lifting of Israel’s naval blockade around Gaza along with the complete opening of the land border crossings.

            4. Establishment of an international airport and seaport in Gaza.

            5. Expansion of Gaza fishing zone by six miles.

            6. Open the Israel-Gaza Rafah border crossing permanently under UN supervision, instead of under Israel’s watch.

            7. 10 year truce with Israel along with the deployment of an international observer force on the border.

            8. Israel must never enter Gaza under any circumstances and protect Palestinian Muslim worshippers at Al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem.

            9. Israel must refrain from interfering with the newly created unity Palestinian government between Fatah and Hamas.

            10. Rehabilitation of Gaza Industrial Zones and allowance for Gaza to create a border protection force.

          • JONBOSTON

            “The arrogance and entitlement of your response suggests immaturity”. I got a good laugh out of that since I’m 62 with grown accomplished children and been married more years than I can count.

            It’s just that during my lifetime the left has been wrong so many times on so many issue that I’m repulsed by comments like yours . During the cold war Stalin would refer to individuals like yourself as “useful idiots”. I find offensive your equating the moral position of Israel with a terrorist group like Hamas dedicated to the destruction of Israel . I don’t for a minute doubt the comments made by Israeli leaders that Hamas is deliberately placing Palestinians in harm’s way and neither apparently have any world leaders since no one has challenged the accuracy of the Israeli charges. Israel has every right to defend itself against the thousands of rockets aimed at its citizens. On the other hand, earlier this week I heard NPR’s Steve Inskeep interview the Hamas deputy information minister and he sounded like a raving lunatic desperately in need of meds. In case you missed it, over the weekend the UNRWA reported finding 20 rockets stored in one of the schools it operates in Gaza. In another report, Patrick Martin of the Globe and Mail reported seeing 2 R160 long range rockets launched alongside another UNRWA school.

            To repeat, I pity the poor students who are exposed to your garbage.

          • SteveTheTeacher

            “. . . [I've] been married more years than I can count.” – Jonboston

            Clearly, you married a person of exemplary patient, tolerance, restraint, and ability to compromise.

            Any chance that your spouse would be willing to help bring people, in this region, together to work out a just and lasting peace?

          • JONBOSTON

            I bet you have a peace symbol bumper sticker on your Prius and stand outside public squares with Peace Now groups chanting ” Give Peace a Chance” every weekend. Stalin had you pegged right.

          • SteveTheTeacher

            Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. — Martin Luther King, Jr.

            You’re always welcome to join us “idiots” working for peace, Jonboston, my brother.

            L’Amour triomphe de tout

          • Beelzebub

            Obviously, you’ve been exposed to a teacher. So sad.

        • William

          Israel has used a roof knocking warning system before destroying terrorist hideouts. You can’t expect much more than that from a nation that is under attack by the Arab terrorists.

          • SteveTheTeacher

            These “roof knocking warnings” have been reported to kill people.

            “There is no way that firing a missile at a civilian home can constitute an effective ‘warning’,” argues Amnesty’s regional director Philip Luther. “Amnesty International has documented cases of civilians killed or injured by such missiles in previous Israeli military operations on the Gaza Strip”

            There is also no guarantee that all family members have the ability to leave a bombed home before Israel destroys it.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waSPsI9-ge8

            Yes, the international community can expect more from the Israeli government. It can refrain from carrying out crimes against humanity.

            According to Amnesty International:

            “Unless the Israeli authorities can provide specific information to show how a home is being used to make an effective contribution to military actions, deliberately attacking civilian homes constitutes a war crime and also amounts to collective punishment against the families.”

          • William

            There is only so much a nation can do when it is attacked and defends itself. The UN reported today that the Arab terrorists were hiding rockets in one of the UN schools. It is as if the Arab terrorists want to blow up a bunch of kids for political gain and a 15 second byline on CNN.

        • Don_B1

          This is something everyone should read:

          http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/18/opinion/gaza-and-israel-the-road-to-war-paved-by-the-west.html?emc=edit_ty_20140718&nl=opinion&nlid=40714393&_r=0

          This flareup of fighting in Gaza did not come out of the blue.

          My apologies for not posting this earlier (on vacation with limited Internet access).

      • Don_B1

        While I do not support the use of missiles by Hamas (or any other Palestinian group), why would anyone set up their missile sites in open ground where they could be easily destroyed by Israeli forces? That would be contrary to every rule of warfare, and would allow you to call them insane.

    • William

      The security wall Israel built has worked as designed and save lives on both sides of this conflict. The would-be bombers and their potential victims. Certainly you have to admit the Arabs have shot themselves in the foot by not agreeing with the peace deal President Clinton arranged years ago.

  • TFRX

    We’ve lost Elaine Stritch. RIP.

  • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

    Not only is there Hatch Act violations going on in D.C. but they are going on at the Federal Elections Commission? And a friend of Lois Lerner has their hard drive crash and losses the evidence? But we are told there is not a smidgen of corruption.

    FTA:
    April J. Sands resigned her position as an FEC attorney in April 2014 after investigators confronted her with tweets she sent and a video interview she conducted during work hours, advocating for the election of President Barack Obama and other Democratic candidates – and asking people to contribute to their campaigns.

    When the FEC’s Office of Inspector General began the process of filing criminal charges, however, it found that the agency had destroyed her computer’s hard drive before it could be seized.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2692218/Another-recycled-hard-drive-Former-Lois-Lerner-deputy-prosecuted-fundraising-Democrats-job-FEC-destroyed-evidence.html#ixzz37oj9vegZ

  • TFRX

    Adam Kwasman, a Republican jockeying for nomination in AZ-1, refers to YMCA campers on a bus as immigrant children.

    I don’t know why; perhaps there’s just something about buses and right-wingers.

    But the best stupidest part is his being called out by a reporter:

    “Do you know that was a bus with YMCA kids?”

    “They were sad, too.”

    http://www.azcentral.com/story/brahm-resnik/2014/07/15/arizona-politician-mistakes-campers-for-migrant-children/12701279/

  • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

    The VA scandal grows as the guilty administrators take desperate measures to cover up their misdeeds.

    FTA:
    Congressional staffers investigating data falsification and whistleblower retaliation at the Department of Veterans Affairs regional office in Philadelphia were given a workspace there that was wired with activated audio microphones and video cameras, the chairman of the House Committee on Veterans’ Affairs said Monday.

    Committee investigators also glimpsed a notebook used by the agency’s regional director that bore written instructions to ignore their requests for information, Rep. Jeff Miller, R-Fla., said during a late-night hearing.

    http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/2550854#.U8VhMkl_fNc.twitter

    • Human2013

      No, what’s scandalous is to have veterans believe that they can have successful socialized medicine in a larger capitalistic health care industry. The VA is open to all veterans – millions of people – but has to compete for talent in the market. The VA will never have the funds to compete with the “free market” for the best talent. Yet another reason why this country needs social medicine.

      • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

        We are decades past the fall of the USSR and the Warsaw pact but still there are so many that cling to the fantasy that nationalized or socialized industries produce better quality and more abundance than free markets. How many fail economies will it take top convince you?

        • Human2013

          I’ll point you to Scandanavia

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            I’ll point to North Korea.

          • nj_v2

            Don’t forget Hitler, he was “socialist,” too.

        • Ray in VT

          How’s that national health care working out for pretty much every other industrialized nation? I don’t see them clamoring for our much higher prices and millions of uninsured people.

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            Considering the growth of sites like this I would guess there is quite a clamor.

            http://medicaltourism.com/

          • Ray in VT

            That’s some solid research there. How about the American who flew to Belgium to get his hip replacement?

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            Speaking of research, can you tell me how the increase in taxes in Vermont to pay for their single payer healthcare scheme is being revived?

          • Ray in VT

            There are ongoing discussions as to how such a system would be paid for. A number of steps have been taken recently to control hospital costs by promoting efficiencies and cutting waste and unnecessary procedures. One would think that the market would have fixed this, but it took the an action by the elected representatives of the people to make it happen.

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            Good luck with that “rationing/ wage and price controls thing” maybe this time it will really work.

          • Ray in VT

            Good luck with having the market take care of it. It’s working so well with health care, just like it did with acid rain.

          • nj_v2

            Half a useless jet fighter would just about do it.

            Where’s your call to defund useless “defense” hardware and eliminate other waste in the military budget?

            Or do we need all that for your precious “liberty”?

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            I am fully capable of defending my own liberty. It is the liberty of those less fortunate than myself that I am concerned about. It is why I joined the Worcester Tea Party and it is why I comment here.

        • nj_v2

          Yeah, all those poor, suffering Scandinavians! Its so sad.

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            FTA:

            Many leftists often point to the “superiority” of Scandinavian “socialism.” Leftists often use Denmark and Sweden as their examples, since they are the most successful Scandinavian nations. I already covered this issue in an earlier post, but I feel it is important to rehash this topic and to post a refutation of this leftist fallacy. For this post, we shall define Scandinavian countries as Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, and Iceland. Some might dispute whether we should consider Finland and Iceland as Scandinavian, because of cultural differences (Finland) and geographical barriers (Iceland), though we the point of this post is not to argue whether or not these countries are Scandinavian, but to dispute the fact that they are indeed successful socialist states.

            http://archive.freecapitalists.org/forums/t/5616.aspx

          • nj_v2

            Wow, a large, steaming heap of Cato propaganda. You’re in rare form today.

            http://world.std.com/~mhuben/cato.html

            Criticisms of the Cato Institute.

            A “libertarian” quasi-academic think-tank which acts as a mouthpiece for the globalism, corporatism, and neoliberalism of its corporate and conservative funders. Cato is an astroturf organization: there is no significant participation by the tiny libertarian minority. They do not fund it or affect its goals. It is a creature of corporations and foundations.

            The major purpose of the Cato Institute is to provide propaganda and soundbites for conservative and libertarian politicians and journalists that is conveniently free of reference to funders such as tobacco, fossil fuel, investment, media, medical, and other regulated industries.

            Cato is one of the most blatant examples of “simulated rationality”, as described in Phil Agre’s The Crisis of Public Reason. Arguments need only be plausibly rational to an uninformed listener. Only a tiny percentage will notice that they are being misled. That’s all that’s needed to manage public opinion.

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            Is this from your personal blog? I am not familiar with “world.std.com” please tell me more about it.

          • Don_B1

            One of the major founders were the Koch brothers, but they have distanced themselves somewhat as it has not supported their business interests to the extent they want.

  • HonestDebate1

    So when Obama heard about the downed jet in the news, he promptly headed to a couple of fundraisers. Terrific. As Benghazi showed us, when Americans are murdered in a heinous terrorist attack Obama gets antsy for some more cash. To be fair, he said it only looked like it may be a tragedy. I suppose 295 people presumed dead from a missile attack could feasibly have a happy ending so he wasn’t sure.

    • Ray in VT

      Hey, how’s that beating the Benghazi conspiracies to death going this week? What’s the latest on the supposed stand down order? Obama obviously should have stopped campaigning in the wake of Benghazi. That’s what any true, ‘Merica loving conservative would likely have done.

      • HonestDebate1
        • Ray in VT

          I know. Obama didn’t even mobilize a military response. This is terrible.

          I am wondering, though, why it is somehow wrong for the President of the United States to go to fundraisers in the wake of the crash of an Asian airliner with mostly Dutch passengers, as as of yet it has yet to be confirmed that there were any Americans onboard, although reportedly there were. I bet he even fundraised after the Costa Concordia.

    • nj_v2

      Yeah, he should have just given a go-ahead to invade Russia.

      More flaming, partisan d-baggery from the resident troll king.

      At the time of the announcement, it wasn’t clear what happened.

      As of a couple of hours ago, it still wasn’t clear how many or even if Americans were on the plane.

      Even if it were a missile strike, it’s not clear if the perpetrators knew what plane they were targeting.

      One hopes and prays that DisHonestMisDebatorGreggg has no real responsibilities for anything really important.

      • HonestDebate1

        That’s what I said NJ. He wasn’t sure. A fundraiser was completely appropriate.

        • nj_v2

          Please, please, Disqus, give us an ignore-selected-user function.

      • jefe68

        Well how about some common decency, I would settle for that. He’s really out to lunch this morning. What a complete tool.

        • HonestDebate1

          Common decency dictates the President goes to the situation room not two fundraisers.

          • jefe68

            The situation room?
            Why on earth would any president do that in a case such as this and at this time after such a tragedy?

            You’re ant-Obama act is getting tiresome.
            Stop bottom feeding.

          • HonestDebate1

            Maybe more shoes are about to drop. Maybe WWIII is beginning. Maybe Americans are in danger. Maybe he needs to nuke someone.

          • jefe68

            Maybe you’re a complete idiot.

          • HonestDebate1

            I stipulate that up front.

          • Ray in VT

            The situation room seems to be a place for dealing with and being informed about the situation, not a place to go because of “common decency”.

          • HonestDebate1

            It’s where he talks to leaders offering support and expressing condolences.

          • Ray in VT

            I thought that that’s what the Crawford Ranch is for. It was appropriate when responding to the tens of thousands of deaths from the Indian Ocean tsunami.

          • Beelzebub

            You know “Honest?” I agree with you but in his photos, the Emperor has been looking a little impaired lately.

    • jefe68

      So far I’ve not read that there were any Americans on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.

      There were 173 Dutch nationals on board the plane, along with 44 Malaysians, 27 Australians, 12 Indonesians, nine passengers believed to be from the UK, four each from Germany and Belgium, three from the Philippines, one Canadian and one from New Zealand. The nationalities of 20 passengers have not yet been verified. A group of international HIV/Aids experts flying to Melbourne were among those killed.

      http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/mh17-pressure-on-russia-as-world-demands-answers-over-planes-destruction

      Bottom feeding again I see. Using the loss of peoples lives for your anti-Obama screeds is pretty low buddy.

      • HonestDebate1

        News reports say 23 Americans were killed but had it just best your garden variety commercial airline obliterated out of the sky with a missile without any Americans on board then it’s really no biggee. Right?

        • Ray in VT

          Unconfirmed reports. So, any time an airplane comes down anywhere in the world, a disaster or terrorist attacks occurs should the President of the United States take steps such as cancelling any sort of activities such as fundraising? Any other global incidents that should illicit such a response from the President of the United States? Please feel free to list them as well as why the President should do this.

          • jefe68

            Only if it’s Obama.

          • Human2013

            Leaders I with brown skin

          • HonestDebate1

            That’s sick.

          • jefe68

            Speaking of sick…

        • jefe68

          You really are a piece of work.

          • hennorama

            jefe68 — but, but, but … “It’s not about [him].”

          • HonestDebate1

            It’s not about me.

          • Ray in VT

            Lame.

          • HonestDebate1

            No, just a little gimpy.

          • Ray in VT

            Why? Did a roaming gang of blacks who prey on white people get you? I hear that there is an epidemic of that going around, although I wouldn’t trust the source for such claims.

          • jefe68

            Yeah, it is. It’s all about your BS.

        • nj_v2

          Having lead with, “As Benghazi showed us, when Americans are murdered in a heinous terrorist attack Obama gets antsy for some more cash.” the dissembling little worm now back peddles.

          • HonestDebate1

            Back peddle?

          • nj_v2

            GIve him an award, he caught a typo.

            It’s Lame Deflection Day for the right-wing clown posse.

          • HonestDebate1

            Typo?

          • nj_v2

            You really wanna play that game?

          • HonestDebate1

            I saw your other comment above, I didn’t realize you made a spelling error (you call it a typo) I’m not that smart. I just didn’t understand where I had back … er …
            tracked.

            I don’t play grammar cop.

        • jefe68

          You seem to have comprehension issues. It’s clear you are looking to make a partisan deal out of this. Keep doubling down on your inanity.

        • Human2013

          Please post that news source.

    • jimino

      Maybe we could look to your best President ever for precedent. How did he spend his day after the US shot down a civilian airliner in 1988, killing 290 people on board?

      • Ray in VT

        Probably was in the situation room all day. It would have been the decent thing to do.

      • hennorama

        jimino — well, we all know that President Obama and his staff are clairvoyant, and know in advance when tragic events will occur, so as to not schedule anything that conflicts with them.

        If that actually was the case, there would be nothing on any President’s schedule, as tragic events occur virtually round-the-clock.

        • HonestDebate1

          My point is about what he did after he knew. He is not clairvoyant that’s why he watches the news to keep us safe.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDfmUK833hc

          • Ray in VT

            Yeah, those whistleblowers really ought to let the President know before they go to the press, because that is how they do things.

          • jefe68

            Your point is irrelevant.

      • HonestDebate1

        I don’t believe I’ve ever said who I thought was the best President ever. Do you mean Reagan? He gave us amnesty and Roe v. Wade. No thanks.

        It’s not just that Obama went to a couple of fund raisers, he waited until they were over (some 5 hours!) before he made a call to Ukrainian and Malaysian leaders. That’s piss poor form.

        But Reagan’s speech was much better:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VA4W1wDMAk

        • Ray in VT

          Reagan gave us Roe v. Wade? Please, do tell. Was he secretly Harry Blackmun?

          • HonestDebate1

            He gave us the swing vote, Sandra Day O’Conner.

          • Ray in VT

            Did he appoint her to the Supreme Court? I was unaware that she was on the Court in 1973. Was she also there in disguise?

          • HonestDebate1
          • Ray in VT

            Got it, so the “swing vote” on Roe, which was 7-2, came in 1981, over 8 years after the decision?

          • nj_v2

            Don’t confuse him with facts. He already understands everything.

          • HonestDebate1

            Not exactly. Relax Ray.

          • Ray in VT

            So he didn’t give us Roe?

        • Beelzebub

          Not only did he wait 5 hours to make the call–he had a dark beer in one hand and, well, you know a j……t in the other.

        • TFRX

          Yeah, Reagan talked big blather. Ask

          the conservatives who talked about Saint Ronnie’s wimpiness at the time.

          I guess everything Reagan did (or failed to do) has been RetConned into Tough Macho Manly Leadership status.

  • nj_v2

    Right-wing jacka**ery, regressiveness, fear mongering, and general vile idiocy of the week. Special, Who-would-Jesus-deport? edition

    http://www.commondreams.org/further/2014/07/16-0

    Return to Sender: GOP Pol and Protesters Hilariously Mistake Y Campers For Dreaded (Albeit Short) Brown-Skinned Invaders

    [[ The growing humanitarian crisis that is the influx of thousands of unaccompanied kids stranded at our borders after fleeing poverty and violence in Central America has been met with the usual compassion from right wing racists - including an astonishing, incoherent Michelle Bachmann rant - hysterically screaming about an "invasion" of "illegals forced upon us." There have been, as well, reasonable people who have moved to welcome the no doubt terrified children and insist that "we're better than this" vitriol. Still, when newsspread of the expected arrival of 40 (short) invaders to a shelter near Oracle, Arizona,protesters gathered to yell epithets and Tea Party congressional candidate Adam Kwasman drew himself up to speechify that, "This is not compassion. This is the abrogation of the rule of law." Later, he mournfully told a reporter he'd seen the children on the bus and "the fear in their faces" and the "sad state of affairs." Except, umm, actually, what he saw was a busload of good ole American kids from a local school district going to a YMCA day camp - and reportedly gleefully taking pictures with their iPhones of the media storm - not migrant children. Priceless video of political idiocy in action. ]]

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/15/michele-bachmann-calls-immigrant-children-invaders-and-compares-them-to-rapists/

    Michele Bachmann calls immigrant children ‘invaders’ and compares them to rapists

    Outgoing Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) derailed a CNN discussion on Tuesday about the thousands of undocumented immigrants arriving in the U.S. from Central America by calling them “invaders” and linking them to at least one rape case and an auto accident from six years ago.

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/10/watch-michiganders-panic-over-plan-to-house-immigrant-kids-call-for-border-minefield/

    WATCH: Michiganders panic over plan to house immigrant kids, call for border minefield

    [[ The children that are involved here are only pawns,” said Tamyra Murray, an anti-immigrant activist. “They’re a game to control our nation. It’s an invasion, nothing less than an invasion.”

    Murray claimed the surge of immigrant children had been orchestrated by Central and South American governments to undermine the U.S., and an audience member shouted out that these immigrants would one day provide Democratic votes. ]]

    http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/07/05/militia-groups-border-invasion-video/

    Right Wing Militia Groups Aim To Secure Border, Claim ‘It’s An Invasion’ (VIDEO)

    [[ Ladies and gentlemen, we are being invaded through our southern border. Call it what it is. It’s an invasion. And along with those who are generally seeking a better life, even though they’re doing it illegally, which makes them bad, you have cartels, you have al-Qaeda, and all kinds of s*** coming through this border.

    However, citizen militias are the Constitutional means for dealing with this issue, and this is, in part, why we have the Second Amendment, to preserve a free state. Specifically, Article I, Section 8, Clause 15 of the US Constitution states that the citizen militias are “to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections, and repel Invasions.”

    How? You see an illegal, you point your gun right dead at them, right between the eyes, and say ‘Get back across the border, or you will be shot.’ Simple as that. If you get any flak from sheriffs, city, or feds, Border Patrol, tell them look — this is our birthright. We have a right to secure our own land. This is our land. This is our birthright. ]]

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/gop-congressman-kids-at-border-gang-members-from-culture-of?utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=cheatsheet_morning&cid=newsletter%3Bemail%3Bcheatsheet_morning&utm_term=Cheat%20Sheet

    GOP Congressman: Kids At Border “Gang Members” From Culture Of “Rape”

    [[ A Florida Republican congressman called undocumented immigrant children at the border not children at all but gang-affiliated persons from a culture of thievery, murder, and violence.“A lot of these children … quote-unquote … ya know, the first caller mentioned it, ya know, they’re gang members. They’re gang affiliated,” Florida Republican Rep. Rich Nugent said on WOCA radio Monday.

    Nugent added that the culture the children were coming from was one of violence and there would be a complications in bringing the children into American culture. ]]

    • William

      It is more about why encourage human trafficking than any thing else.

      • TFRX

        Hey, you still lying about that slur about me, child molester?

    • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

      Bad form big footing TFRX!

      • nj_v2

        ^ Word salad. You purport to be a writer?

        Your Teabag compatriots engage in this kind of vileness, and that’s what you’ve got to say?

        • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

          I’m sorry my last comment was lost on you. I wish to point out that I feel it is wrong of you to re-post a comment that TFRX has already posted.

          Thank you for again using a slur that would not pass the censors of this site if it were directed at any group other than members of the Tea Party Movement.

          • nj_v2

            Oh nooooooooo!!! I reposted an item. This is a clear violation of all know civil, forum protocol! I’;m sure this has snever happened before.

            Better e-mail the moderator, or, better yet, lobby Congress to pull NPR’s funding!

            And i didn’t “re-post” it, because i hadn’t even seen it when i compiled the list.

            Your indignation over the term is hilarious since the teabaggers themselves used the term in the nascent area of the movement, when they were too clueless to realize that the term had already an estabished cultural reference (a John Waters film in the 80s).

            (See: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/is-teabagger-an-epithet-rachel-maddow-teaches-a-tea-party-history-lesson/)

            And when your noble leader engages in outright, blatant, repeated racism, where are your principled, righteous protestations?

            http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2010/05/28/teaparty-org-founder-labels-obama-with-racial-terms/

            TeaParty.org Founder Labels Obama With Racial Terms

            [[ Dale Robertson, the vitriolic founder and president of TeaParty.org, blasted out a mass E-mail today that seemed meant to convince doubters that his movement is, after all, racist at its core.

            Attacking President Obama for traveling home to Chicago for the Memorial Day weekend — rather than staying in Washington to lay a wreath in Arlington Cemetery as many presidents have done — Robertson falls into a string of contemptuous and racially charged terms.

            Obama is going home to spend time with “his homies in the Chicago hood,” writes Robertson, who is white. The taxpayers will be footing the bill for the president to “bump and grind in the hood.” While he’s gone, Vice President Joseph Biden and his wife “will step into Obama’s sneakers” to lay a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. Obama, meanwhile, will be “shooting hoops, smoking cigarettes and goofing-off with his homies.” ]]

            And, again, faced with the vile idiocy i presented in my OP on the immigrant kid situation, this is the garbage you decided to post as a response.

            What a sad joke you are.

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            You forgot to add that my mother wears army boots.

          • nj_v2

            Typical RW MO. Get called out on your garbage, and you resort to lame deflections.

            C’mon, show us where you denounced racist rants by people who share your organization’s name.

            Provide some evidence that us the TPers weren’t the first to use the term you so despise.

            Go ahead, i’ll wait.

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            If you wish to continue to use a vulgarism it says a lot about you. That it gives much glee says even more. That the censor here would not publish a comment that included the band named P#$$^ riot (then they did so days later) but will publish your comments contain such terms say something as well.

            “If you can’t be polite, don’t say it. Of course, we don’t want to stifle discussion of controversial issues. Some topics require blunt talk, and we’re not always going to agree with each other. Nonetheless, please try to disagree without being disagreeable. Focus your remarks on positions, not personalities. No personal attacks, name calling, libel, defamation, comments about someone’s mother, hate speech, comparisons to notorious dictators — you get the idea. And under no circumstances should you post anything that could be taken as threatening, harassing, bullying, obscene, pornographic, sexist or racist.”

        • Arkuy The Great

          Since slurs about proclivities are legitimate political discourse…

          • nj_v2

            Which political movement refers to themselves in those terms?

          • Beelzebub

            Proud, card-carrying member are ya?

    • Human2013

      Love it when the Right can’t help but reveal that there is an icebox where their heart is suppose to reside — no compassion, no love, no empathy. Basically, the teachings of Jesus are completely absent….

      • Fiscally_Responsible

        The issue is not a lack of compassion. The issue is secure, controlled borders and orderly reasonable immigration. Taking people in who are illegally entering our country will only encourage more and more people to do so. Of course, the Democrats are all for letting people in who will then drain social services dry because the only thing that the Democrats care about is getting more votes.

        • Ray in VT

          Oh, so are the Democrats getting immigrant children to vote for them now?

          • Fiscally_Responsible

            They certainly will when they are of age. And certainly the majority of Hispanics and other minorities will vote for the Democrats because this group is all for opening the welfare coffers for anyone who wants to reach in and take whatever they want. The Democrats could not care less about how it adds to the budget deficit or the sense of entitlement in this country. They just want votes and power.

          • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

            Why will many immigrants choose to vote for Democrats, instead of Republicans?

          • Fiscally_Responsible

            Minorities vote disproportionately for Democrats as any poll or study will tell you. Part of the reason is that Democrats are much more willing to let just about anybody go on welfare, disability, or in any other way avail themselves of the public checkbook in exchange for their vote.

          • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

            Anything else you can think of?

          • Fiscally_Responsible

            I believe that enough has been said. When my grandparents emigrated to the U.S., they came legally through Ellis Island. They didn’t sneak across the border. Also, when they came, they came in search of opportunity, which they had to work for. They could not simply hold their hand out and expect for the citizenry to start paying their living expenses. they worked like horses day and night in order to scratch a living. So much different than the thinking on the part of many people today.

          • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

            So all immigrants are just gullible?

            What are Republicans “offering”?

          • Human2013

            A trailer home with a side of obesity.

          • Ray in VT

            “Liberty” (laissez-faire, trickle down, bootstrap yourself, opposition to regulations). Pro-life, anti-gay marriage family values. Probably some other stuff too.

          • Ray in VT

            I find it interesting that immigrants can often be portrayed as both being lazy and doing nothing and stealing all the jobs.

          • Human2013

            Wrong, democrats embrace diversity and generally reject the theory of human races.

          • TFRX

            More of that “I hate Republicans as much as Democrats” talk?

          • Ray in VT

            Care to provide some evidence of illegal aliens voting? I’m sure that you have a treasure trove of it. I do love that Democrat policy of welfare for everyone all the time. What disdain for Hispanics and other minorities conservatives seem to have by insinuating that merely handing out welfare to them will make them vote for the Democrats. One wonders why so many poor, white voters go solidly Republican. Are they just too highly principled to have their votes bought?

          • Fiscally_Responsible

            I am not saying that illegal aliens will vote, although the Democrats would be fine with that as well. It is known by everyone (except perhaps you) that minorities vote disproportionately for the Democratic candidates, most of which are much more sympathetic to doling out public services and opposing efforts to get people off of welfare and to make them work. They couldn’t care less how it adds to the budget deficit or the sense of entitlement that so many people in this country have. You can hide your head in the sand, little girl, but that is the way it is.

          • Ray in VT

            I am well aware of how minorities tend to vote. I just take into consideration the long history of statements and positions taken by conservatives that alienate such voters, but perhaps you are unaware of such things or just choose to ignore them. Obviously Democrats just spend and spend and spend and don’t care about deficits. That’s why deficits first ballooned under Reagan and ole W ended up running trillion dollar deficits. Damn those Democrats.

          • Fiscally_Responsible

            As I have said in other posts, I consider the Republicans to be as bad as the Democrats when it comes to spending taxpayer money or cutting taxes irresponsibly. Both parties have their pet spending priorities. I do believe that the Democrats have much less concern about the deficit, although most Republicans’ actions demonstrate that they don’t care too much about it either.

          • Ray in VT

            Also, is calling me a little girl supposed to be some sort of insult to me?

          • Fiscally_Responsible

            It’s from a Beatles song. I didn’t mean it as an insult. I should have put it in quotes. I apologize as I didn’t mean anything by it. The added phrase simply comes to mind whenever I think of hiding one’s head in the sand.

          • Ray in VT

            Just checking. I am not familiar with that song.

          • Fiscally_Responsible

            It’s on the Rubber Soul album. Certainly one of their best (along with Revolver and Sgt. Pepper). And the rest. Do we have common ground here?

          • Ray in VT

            The Beatles are okay. I don’t think that they’re all that they are made up to be by some of their fans, but I don’t have anything against them.

          • keltcrusader

            yeah, cuz us womenfolk are just so stupid to pay attention to anything that its ok to use us as an insult. You can go stick your head…..

          • nj_v2

            I defy anyone to listen to the song and understand how anyone could take this lame explanation seriously.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3wNopYS8YE

            Honestly, right-wingers minds are just wired differently.

          • AC

            omg. i never heard this song before – and i can guess why! yikes!

          • nj_v2

            It’s intended that way. Likewise The Police’s “I’ll Be Watching You” and “I Will Possess Your Heart” by Death Cab for Cutie. Songs about the Dark Side.

            Right-wingers like F_R typically have an underdeveloped sense of irony.

          • jimino

            Isn’t it the theme song of obsessively jealous, violent and assaultive males?

            “Well I’d rather see you dead, little girl

            Than to be with another man

            You better keep your head, little girl

            Or I won’t know where I am

            You better run for your life if you can, little girl

            Hide your head in the sand little girl

            Catch you with another man

            That’s the end ah little girl”

          • Human2013

            Yes, I do feel entitled to food, water and shelter and If I’m correct, Jesus felt the same way.

          • TFRX

            “Although Democrats would be fine with illegal aliens voting”.

            Whatever thoughts you need to finish your self-pleasuring, bub.

          • Guest

            Why insult little girls? My daughter is a little girl and seems to have more compassion and intelligence tan you.

          • JS

            And the republicans are all for the cheap labor and the lowering of everyone’s else wages, thats why Republicans do nothing about immigration.

        • AC

          i think there are rational and reasonable aspects that make this a valid point, in respect to all resources and strain on them. the problem that makes it invalid is the blatant hypocrisy of of inviting politics into the conversation and not realizing this is a genuine humanitarian problem. everywhere really. it needs to be fixed, which means you can’t approach it subjectively but look at it objectively

        • JS

          ANd what exactly di 6 years of Republican control of the borders give us? Secure borders? Not quite. Too many low wage workers to turn away.

          I am fully for secured borders but blame belongs to both sides.

      • Markus6

        I didn’t hear Bachmann so it’s possible it was a hysterical rant. And I don’t like her much anyway. But I’m against this mass immigration and it bugs me when people think anyone against it is heartless. It’s also too simplistic.

        The tens of thousands of kids that just came over the boarder is one thing. However, there are tens of millions more that are in a similar position. Accepting them says to the world, just find a way to get here and we’ll take you in. We saw this in the 80′s when Regan declared amnesty. We will see tens of millions, maybe higher, when we demonstrate through our actions that this is how to join the US. I would do the same thing if I were in their position.

        But we need to think through the consequences rather than just act on our feelings. And the consequences for our own poor, the unemployed, our environment, well just about everything, are pretty dire. I could give specifics, but this is getting a bit long and most probably know these already.

        So, maybe it looks heartless and I’m not defending Bachmann, but maybe it’s that our concerns are first for our own people.

        • Human2013

          It’s very silly to believe you can stop humans from moving around planet earth. While it may hurt American pride, the world will be without borders.

          • AC

            i would love it if we could all just be ‘earthlings’, but i suspect not in my lifetime….part of the problem is me, i’ve traveled too much.
            there are a lot of cultures that are blatant, i don’t agree with (nor can i barely adapt and pretend i didnt just hear what i did) or i simply don’t trust….these isis idiots come to mind readily…..frankly i AM scared of them…

  • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

    Will White House political adviser David Simas be the next apparatchik to suffer a hard drive crash?

    FTA:
    White House counsel W. Neil Eggleston says Issa has no power to compel Simas to testify at a hearing Wednesday morning about whether the office he runs has been engaged in improper political activity in violation of the Hatch Act, which bars federal employees from such activities as campaign fundraising and explicit political support. Eggleston cited a new opinion from the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel that cited precedents going back to Presidents Harry Truman and Richard Nixon of executive privilege being asserted against testimony by White House aides.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/382872/white-house-refuses-send-witness-congress-so-another-court-battle-looms-john-fund

  • AC

    ha!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2utsjsWOWUA

    the whole thing takes too long, the actual clip is funny!!

    • nj_v2

      Not entirely related, but this came up in the Young Turks’ listing along side the above video:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OopLZ-_dFw8

      Segregated Prom Sees Black Students Escorted Out

      “This seems hard to believe in 2013, but students at Wilcox County High School in Georgia have long held segregated proms — one for blacks and one for whites. This year a group of black and white teens who have been friends for years are fighting for a fully integrated prom. But it hasn’t been easy.”*

      This is surprising, since people in this forum had convinced me that racism was over and done here in Amerika.

    • JGC

      Boy, that baby he was pushing in the stroller also got a real education.

    • Jeff

      Yep…

  • AC

    historically, it seems the turn of every century is radical and unstable. then things calm down in the 20s-30s….i hope this is the case because i am unhappy w the amount of nonsense going on in world.
    i’m ready to start settlements in space, yet it seems like the world wants to go back to beating on their chests and sacrificing animals to appease the gods…..

    • Ray in VT

      Terrible things happen all of the time. Sometimes it is more. Sometimes it is a bit less. Often it may seem like less because people just aren’t paying attention until it hits closer to home. There has been ongoing war in the Congo for the past 15 years, and over 5 million may have been killed, but how many Americans do you think could even find the country on a map of Africa?

      • AC

        i’m very aware of that stupid war too. i guess in some ways, they’re not even pretending it’s not about greed. i’ll give them that…

        • Ray in VT

          I would be very willing to bet, though, that many Americans, or the person on the street in many other developed countries, are not. It just seems that very often the public at large ignores issues for long periods of time until they explode into the mainstream of the news media or somehow suddenly hit close to home.

          • Arkuy The Great

            Well we do have a limited amount of attention and resources to devote to problems around the world. No offense to the people in Congo, most of whom are decent folks who want to live their lives in peace and be left alone, but the struggles there do not impact us very much. Frankly, that is probably true about almost all of the brushfires igniting around the world at any given moment.

          • Ray in VT

            Yup. I’m not sure if we’re any better or worse than others in other countries in this way.

          • AC

            what do you mean? it totally affects us!! it’s all about mining rights and cell phone progression…..

          • keltcrusader

            Unfortunately, things like this, Ray only becomes a problem when it interrupts America’s all encompassing pursuit of banality. I know many people who pay absolutely no attention to world news (or any news for that matter. It is sad that we have come so low as to not be bothered by the real death and mayhem going on around the world because it doesn’t affect us directly and yet flock to watch it with relish in our TV and Movies.

          • Ray in VT

            Many people also don’t pay a lot of attention to history, even our own, which is just sad to me, as I am a lover of history.

    • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

      “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way – in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.”

    • nj_v2

      AC proffers: “i’m ready to start settlements in space”

      One might wonder where she supposes we are.

      • AC

        lol. you got me!!

  • Ed75

    At the time of the First world War W.B. Yeats wrote ‘The center can not hold’, armies marching in different directions. But now it seems like things are just crumbling: borders, laws, governmental authority, rebels in every country. It reminds me of St. Paul’s advice against rebelling even against an unjust ruler if possible: now we see the results of rebellion in many places.
    I assume the Palestinian authority wants a truce and Hamas is the one keeping the fighting going, is that the case?

    • Arkuy The Great

      It is telling that in the West Bank, where Fatah (ex PLO) rules there is relative calm but rockets are flying out of Gaza, a.k.a Hamasistan. The WB PA leadership knows its economy and stability, and thus its own legitimacy, rely on stable relations with Israel. That is going to take a bit of grit-your-teeth-and-bear-it in Ram’Allah but that’s the reality there.

      • Ed75

        Hamasistan, I like that. They keep bombing and Palestinians keep getting killed.

  • Ed75

    Pope Francis celebrated Mass in honor of Pope Celestine, the holy monk who resigned the papacy in the Middle Ages. He also declared it a Celestinian Jubilee Year, and the doors of mercy – all the resources of mercy of the Church – are available for people, and everyone is encouraged to make use of them.

    • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

      Jubilee Year – now there’s a good idea!

  • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

    I had been told that only narrow minded people can’t tolerate satire.

    FTA:
    At approximately 5:50 P.M. EST, it became known that Twitter had shut down @Salondotcom, a hilarious parody of Salon run by The Daily Caller’s opinion editor, Jordan Bloom, and his roommate, Rob Mariani. @Salondotcom constantly tweeted fake headlines that perfectly aped Salon’s everyone-is-racist-and-Republicans-are-worse-than-Hitler shtick.

    http://reason.com/blog/2014/07/16/free-salondotcom-twitter-shuts-down-hila

    • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

      Methinks thou doth protest too much.

      • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

        It does take up a lot of my time. But protesting does get me outside in the sunshine.

    • TFRX

      So much fail:

      “Hilarious parody of Salondotcom”.

      Tucker the Fncker’s Daily Caller and “satire”.

      Pleeeze.

      • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

        The good news is that because of the ban and the inherent nature of the internet there are several accounts that will attempt to fill that satirical gap. I like

        Fake Salon@FakeSalonDotCom

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    Israel invades Palestine. Again.
    Russia proxy shoots down passenger airliner.
    Obama putts around.
    The news never changes!

    What a happy week for the planet.

  • perihelion22

    Let’s not forget the US, Israel, Russia, Libya and Ukraine have all shot down airliners.

    • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

      It may well be the *separatists* in Ukraine that shot it down.

      • Beelzebub

        No, it was Poroshenko’s military.

        • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

          Your psychic told you?

    • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

      Time to abandon the UN charter. With only four or five civilized nations on earth (none you named) it’s time to quit. Hoober Doober

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    Another Ashbrook substitute. Is permanent vacation the solution to what ails public radio?

    • toc1234

      He’s probably at the Liz Warren rally (with pom-poms!) in Michigan today.

  • creaker

    I guess week in review would be hard to do as a repeat.

    • MrNutso

      Benghazi, kids crossing the border, IRS, Obamacare, repeat.

      • Omaha Guy

        These code words do not resonate with me as well as those who have been indoctrinated by Fox News, who’s owner – Rupert Murdoch, lives in Beijing.

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    My very demanding sanctions on Putin’s government this time includes: Prohibiting Russian dressing from being served with salad at official state functions. Yes, I’m doing the job you send me to Washington.. to do.
    –Barack H. Obama {Visionary for All Time}

    • JGC

      Dems wouldn’t do anything that dumb. As I recall, it was a Republican that forced the name change of French Fries to Freedumb Fries on the Congressional cafeteria menues, when France refused to support the US invasion of Iraq in 2003.

      • creaker

        Imagine if we listened to France and we hadn’t invaded – Iraq would be a mess right now.

        • JGC

          And I am glad Chretien kept Canada thoroughly removed from the Bush/Cheney Iraq debacle. Otherwise, I might have been forced to eat my Freedumb Fries with Heinz ketchup instead of with gravy and cheese curds, the way the Good Lord intended.

          • hennorama

            JGC — well, to be fair, the French often call the Russian Prime Minister by the same name as your holy dish, which may confuse some Francophones.

      • Ray in VT

        I like my freedom fries with a side of liberty cabbage.

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    I’ve asked former SecState HRH Hillary to go back to Russia. With a bigger red RESET button. Who knows? Might help. Couldn’t hurt, could it?
    –Barack H. Obama {someone’s idea of a president}

    Gee, Barry. Maybe it was the reset button that launched the missile.

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    No one sounds “almost interested” like Barry Obama delivering a speech at an important moment in history.

  • MrNutso

    That’s right Vlad, it’s a diabolical plot by Ukrainian politicians to create unrest along the Russian Border, so separatists would shoot down a plane, so you would get blamed.

  • creaker

    I’m sure collateral damage will pass 295 deaths in Gaza very shortly, if it hasn’t already, but I doubt there will be much angst over that.

    The takeaway being the issue isn’t lost lives – leaders are much more upset over the effects on the market.

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    The nations of all the dead on flight 17 probably, in the last 20 years, gave aid and comfort to Russia through bailouts, business deals, trade agreements, photo ops, loans, financial grants, reset bs, humanitarian relief. So who’s the real enemy out here?

  • Omaha Guy

    Russia has the same problems we in America have, only on a larger scale.

    Putin and other political leaders are dependent on Gazprom and other odd extreme groups to maintain power. And, in order to help these allies maintain a centralized economy around oil, they have kept conservative radio commentators who stir up talk of secession from Ukraine.

  • MrNutso

    What difference does it make why it was there? I don’t recall anyone saying don’t fly in this area or we’ll shoot you down.

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    There’s nothing stopping Part-time President Obama from expelling the total Russian delegation at the United Nations. All of those nations are only in NYC at our sufferance. We can boot the lot by tomorrow tea time. It only takes the will and determination a person should take with him to the White House.

    • spiral007

      Sorry, By the agreements that USA made with UN it is required to allow legitimate diplomats coming to UN for UN activities. Now, I agree that US can shut down the UN Hqts in NYC and ask the UN to move it, something I suspect the rest of the world will willingly accept. Is that what you are proposing?

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    The problem for the internal situation in the region is: there’s only one person in all of Russia with a set of testicles. It just happens to be the Stalin in charge. There is no possibility of another revolution in Russia. Not until the country produces a nation of hardy, healthy Y chromosomes.

    • Omaha Guy

      This is a horrible comment. We men should not have to be collectively shamed for the actions of one troubled leader.

      Putin is not brave, he reacts in fear.

      He is beholden to the large oil companies and most hateful beta males in Russia in order to stay in power.

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    My next set of “tough” sanctions will include renaming my daughter Sasha, to Kieva.
    –Barack H. Obama

    You can tell ‘ol Barry was raised on the rough and tumble playgrounds of the America school yard. Like the rest of us.

  • MrNutso

    That question presupposes that Obama is part of the problem. Why should it change when he leaves office. Shouldn’t there be an American policy that does not change regardless of who is in the oval office?

    • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

      Not to worry. HRH Hillary has his missing stones. That gives her a spare pair. HD

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    Terrorism?. Is Palestine occupying Israeli territory? Can Palestine back up its bullying with airstrikes and nuclear tipped missiles?

    You D.C. media types need to get out of Oz and go wander the planet. Stop reading each others’ blogs and go do what used to be called: journalism.

  • Omaha Guy

    Hamas still sends the message, they feel Israel does not have the right to exist. They send the message with missiles.

    Israel still sends the message, they feel palestine does not have the right to exist. They send the message with stolen real estate developments. (aka settlements)

    The two state solution is the only one that will work, but both sides have conservative commentators who make their living stirring up hatred and abusing religion.

    • Kathy

      I think both sides prefer the other solution: genocide.

      • Omaha Guy

        people always point to their own mirror…

        war-mongerers on one side, point to their counterpart and say, “see, they want war!”

        peace lovers on the other side, point to their counterpart and say “but most of them want peace”

        these days, big oil has stirred up religion so badly that the war mongerers on both sides have the upper hand.

        • Arkuy The Great

          Does this apply even though there is no oil under Gaza?

          • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

            Who said anything about oil? It is about land and water and … religion is involved. Just a little.

      • Beelzebub

        Obviously at present, Israel is better at genocide–err, ethnic cleansing.

  • Human2013

    It seems we forget that borders are imaginary lines….they’re actually not there, you can’t see them, feel them and they are subject to change. If my history is accurate, Texas is a relatively new asset.

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    The US response to the illegals* at our southern border indicates we’re no longer a “Christian nation.” We can shutter the crystal palaces, kill off the self-important preaching to the “faithful”, and remove God from our coinage. The spiritual revolution that gave birth to our land is dead and buried.
    All hail progress.

    * Yes, that’s what they are. They didn’t leave their documents back home in their other pair of blue jeans.

    • Omaha Guy

      Your posting is not clear. But your thinking is not clear either. Can you remember where you put your keys?

    • Kathy

      Was this meant to be a parody?

  • Rick Evans

    Feel sorry for the Comcast “service person”???

    Hey Oakes, what planet do you live on???

    • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

      Comcast is as bad as Verizon – both are bullying their customers and both should be reined in.

      We must have net neutrality.

      • Rick Evans

        “We must have net neutrality.”

        How would that stop lousy Comcast/Verizon customer service? The two act as they do because they are monopolists. Don’t confuse that with allowing “haul videos” to have the same bandwidth as Netflix.

    • creaker

      To be fair – “this call may be recorded” – I’m sure they make the help well aware of that – and what they expect to hear.

      Not everyone is in a position to stand up and walk out any time their employer expects them to act like an ass.

      • Rick Evans

        To be fairer the customer is not being PAID to put up with Comcast’s nightmare script.

        • tbphkm33

          I agree, you should be able to cancel service right from your online account – with any service provider. Best thing to do is to say right away that you are moving, no one will argue then.

          • Rick Evans

            Well not quite. If you listen closely to the recording the Comcast sock-puppet was trying to frustrate the customer into transferring his account to his new address.

            I did hear on Marketplace Morning report that you should tell the sock puppet you are relocating overseas.

            Too bad our rent-a-Congress lack the public interest to force Comcast to divest itself from terrestrial broadband.

  • 65noname

    Great objective story!!!!!!! it takes as fact israel’s allegation that it is attacking gaza for “security” reasons. not one attempt to present another point of view. the only question discussed is whether israel will be successful in destroying the “security threat”. no palestinian viewpoint; no consideration of whether israel’s real objectives might be to destroy all palestinian resistance to the settlement policies and all palestinian efforts to end the israeli bockade of food and medicine and travel. and then, the claim that hamas is actually trying to create more palestinian casualties for its own political gain. of course, no mnetion that israel might trying to kill as many palestinians as possible in order to scare off any palestinians who are asdvocating for their own country.
    to this program the only question is whether international pressure will prevent israel from achieving its so-called “legitimate security interests” before israel has murdered every person in gaza.
    you go government radio!!!!!!!!!
    don’t forget to demand that listeners send in gobs of money.

    • Arkuy The Great

      The “international community” (really just Europe as Russia is arguably a war criminal itself, China could not care less, India is not terribly sympathetic to Islamicists of any stripe and most everyone else is too weak to matter) is far more concerned about how dangerous travel has just become along one of the most heavily traveled “skyways” in the world in light of MH-17. The plight of Hamasistan is way down the list in terms of global priorities right now. That is something that Khaled Mashaal might want to consider from the safety of his villa in Qatar while he intentionally pushes his own people into the meat grinder.

  • Ray in VT

    The 2016 polls have been coming out for months. Groups started talking about the groundwork for 2016 the day after the election in 2012. This stuff is just so annoying, and who really cares if Christie polls ahead of Rand Paul by 2 points in Iowa in mid 2014?

  • creaker

    Israel won’t stop until the Palestinians only have 2 or 3 small areas big enough for casinos left.

    • tbphkm33

      Yep, or until someone uses a nuclear weapon against them. Even the CIA’s assessments have Tel Aviv as a high potential target.

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    The Muslims will outbreed the Jews in the Middle East. 50 years from now the Palestinians can aim their voices from East Jerusalem towards the western wall and triumphantly sing: Who’s Sorry Now?

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    The US has never and can never be an “honest broker.” And thus, it’s pointless for the US to pretend otherwise. The Muslim world isn’t buying it. Neither do intelligent westerners.

    • Omaha Guy

      I think the US can be an honest broker. You are mistaken.

  • DJJS

    For Trudy who strikes me any time she’s on as a know-it-all: (From the Wolfowitz Doctrine which might still have sway at Dept. of State) “Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere, that poses a threat on the order of that posed formerly by the Soviet Union. This is a dominant consideration underlying the new regional defense strategy and requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power from dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated control, be sufficient to generate global power.” Quote from paulcraigroberts.org.

  • 65noname

    this show only gets worse. does it hire its comentators directly from the israel lobby? or is there an entity that funnels them from the lobby to this show?

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    Don’t send those illegal immigrant kids to Disney World. Not if you care about their health and wellbeing.
    http://nypost.com/2014/07/15/dozens-of-disney-world-workers-arrested-in-child-sex-stings/

    Remember: Florida is a state controlled by Republicans. Some of whom want to be the next president.

  • Steve_in_Vermont

    And to deal with the dysfunction of our highways congress is implementing “pension smoothing”. What could go wrong with that? We, as a society, can’t even raise gas rates by 5 cents a gallon to fix our highways, let alone the larger issues. We’ve become a truly dysfunctional society which will only get worse.

  • creaker

    One thing that surprised me was how vehement the protests have been directing such nastiness at children. But you never see a protest at places employing illegals. Which implies that these folks do not want to pay to help children survive, but they still want cheap labor to pick their crops, grow and process their meat, clean their offices and mow their lawns.

    • JS

      Amen brother. I hear people complaining about illegals congregating in front of Home Depot etc looking for work, but no action taken against the contractors hiring them.

  • DJJS

    For Jack B. I believe that Russian expert Steve Cohen stated on this show in the spring that the treaty that Ukraine did not sign in the fall WAS NOT just a trade agreeement. Cohen stated that buried in it was wording that would have made Ukraine a de facto member of NATO. Here’s the show archive link, Jack http://onpoint.wbur.org/2014/03/03/ukraine-kiev-crimea-putin

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    Why doesn’t Obama take a lot of those illegal immigrant kids with him to Martha’s Vineyard when he goes on vacation? That’s in Massachusetts!

    • anamaria23

      Gov. Patrick has approved 2000 of these “illegal immigrant kids” coming our way to MA for up to four months.

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    Pittsburgh loved Loren Maazel.

  • Ray in VT

    Some strange goings on regarding some materials being used as teaching materials at an Arizona charter school:

    http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/mesa/2014/07/14/mesa-charter-school-religion/12615041/

    At issue are books by Cleon Skousen which advance some sort of view of a sort of religious angle regarding the American Revolution and our founding documents. One of the books also seems to portray slavery as not being that bad and in some ways more harmful to the slave owners. Shock jock Glenn Beck pushes these books, and apparently he has been defending the contents. Some of these views fit with that sort of Christian nation stuff pushed by David Barton, who has advised Beck for some of his events. I think that it is quite historically inaccurate, but that line has support among some groups.

  • hennorama

    Bill “It’s Not A Traditional America Anymore … The White Establishment Is Now The Minority” O’Reilly wishes the U.S. would militarize the U.S.-Mexican border, and says it’s “Mistake Number One” that the U.S. hasn’t built “a border fence like they did in East Germany.”

    Even his obviously leftist guest, Karl Rove, disagreed.

    • brettearle

      A border fence is a direct assault against the credo of, “Give Me Your Tired Huddled Masses”.

      But sending children into the unknown, without plans–regardless of how bad conditions were in the location of origin–is foolhardy, irresponsible, prickly, unfair, a perilous gamble, etc…..

      • JS

        A credo is not a law

        • brettearle

          And?

          • JS

            And we shouldn’t base our immigration law and policies on something a french poet wrote.

          • brettearle

            Ain’t many who disagreed with the quote, for a long, long time….

            ….and who also didn’t accept the quote as incorporated into the US credo for higher quality Values of the American Way.

          • JS

            I doubt most who agreed with the quote saw it as an open immigration policy where we would accept anyone, anywhere, at any time.

        • jimino

          You mean like:

          “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,
          that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,
          that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That
          to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving
          their just powers from the consent of the governed.”

          • JS

            Exactly, a credo, not a law. Law in the US in the Constitution, which, when written, violated any number of the tenets expressed in the Declaration of Independence.

    • JS

      I would be considered “leftist” on most issues, except for Immigration. I agree with building a fence. We have a regulated system of immigration and people need to come in legally.

      That being said, I also call for extreme measures to be taken against employees who hire illegal aliens, including jail time, extreme fines, and revocation of US Citizenship.

      Lets start with locking up and revoking contractor licenses for all those contractors who hire illegals in front of Home Depot.

      • jimino

        If jobs is your main concern, vastly more US jobs have been lost to allowing the global deployment of capital to locations where it can find the cheapest labor costs, while at the same time having unfettered access to the US consumer market.

        What would you do about that? Deport those businesses that do so as the foreigners they really are?

        • JS

          I believe that more than one problem can be addressed at a time. Tackling the problem of US jobs being given away by employers hiring illegals, doesn’t preclude working on other problems.

          The problem you mention is off topic and quite diverse and far reaching, but to be brief, I would change certain aspects of the tax code to address these issues.

      • nj_v2

        Building a fence works fine until someone comes along with a ladder that’s a foot taller than the fence.

        The real problem is that desperate people are trying to escape from countries whose history has been riddled with violence, depression, oppression, and other ills—many of them fomented, exasperated, or contributed to by U.S. foreign policy.

        Taking in some of these people is the least we could do.

        • JS

          I know a fence isnt the solution to the problem, but its something thats necessary. And I am not of the Republican mind that nothing else can be done unitl the border is “secured”.

          I feel we can work on more than one facet of the problem at the same time. As such, we should take care of thses people.

          • hennorama

            JS — I understand the idea of a fence, but like any fixed position, it can be defeated or avoided.

            The idea of “secure the border first” is, as you imply, simply a tactic to delay and avoid a more comprehensive policy solution.

            Building “a border fence like they [built] in East Germany,” did not prevent people crossing the border, despite Mr. O’Reilly’s claim to the contrary.

          • tbphkm33

            Does the giant 1,000+ mile fence not go against the Nopublican mantra of small government? Typical GOP hypocrisy, small government when it does not benefit me – major government expenditures when it is something close to my own interests.

          • JS

            Anything can be defeated or avoided, but thats no excuse for doing nothing. Cops don’t catch any criminal, but thats no reason to do away with police.

            The wall in Germany did prevent almost everyone who wanted to cross from crossing. Only a few got through. But I am not advocating a similar wall with the associated lethal defenses.

          • hennorama

            JS – thank you for your responses. I am consolidating my replies here.

            It’s not as if the Border Patrol and Homeland Security is “doing nothing.” As I wrote in reply to [Salty]:

            About one-third (~650 Mi.) of the US – Mexico border, which is 1,954 miles long, are fenced at present. There are UAVs already in service there, and various other detection methods, such as cameras, motion sensors, infrared detection, hundreds of watchtowers, etc., etc. There are also mobile surveillance systems already deployed. The geography, property owner objections, environmental and cost concerns, have prevented a full-length continuous border barrier fence. However, there are also more than 18,000 Border Patrol employees assigned to that border, which is about 90 percent of all BP employees. In contrast, there are fewer than 500 BP employees assigned to the US – Canadian border. In other words, significant resources have been committed to our southern border already. It’s difficult to determine any added benefit to committing more time, money, and personnel.

            W. Ralph Basham, who served as commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Protection, director of the U.S. Secret Service, and chief of staff of the U.S. Transportation Security Administration wrote this in 2011:

            Building a physical fence along the entire border with Mexico was one of the dumbest ideas I heard when I was commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Protection. It is critical to recognize that fencing (even with barbed wire, electrification, and possibly a moat filled with alligators) is not a solution, it is only a tool. There’s a fundamental misunderstanding about what a physical barrier—even the triple-layer fencing in San Diego–actually does or doesn’t do for the agency charged with building fencing and securing the border. All it really does is buy you time where a crosser could otherwise quickly escape or assimilate. None of the fencing is impenetrable. People will eventually dig under it or cut through it or go over it, but it gives you enough time to respond and apprehend them. Some fencing makes sense tactically in areas selected by the Border Patrol, as where we deployed some 700 miles of it under my tenure, and in many of those areas it has been a tool to provide permanent impedance to deter and slow illegal entries on foot or by vehicle.

            As we learned, fencing in poor soil, flood plains or sand dunes can also be more expensive than effective, in some places because of terrain challenges we decided spending more than $6 million per mile for specialized fence was not the most effective use of resources to better secure that area of border and opted for more agents and technology there instead. In areas dozens of miles from paved roads where we have time to respond to incursions or where we have natural obstacles of mountains and water that already slow, deter or reroute traffic we don’t need fence at all. Any successful strategy must rely more heavily on highly trained, dedicated law enforcement officers and better technology tools, key components of the approach we began in the last administration. Since 2001, we have more than doubled the Border Patrol, deployed highly capable manned aircraft and Unmanned Aerial Systems including the Predator aircraft, and installed fixed and mobile surveillance systems. And, the Department of Homeland Security is in the process of developing its plans to deploy additional technology capabilities along key areas of the border to enhance the effectiveness of these agents.

            Source:
            http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/should-the-united-states-build-a-fence-on-its-southern-border/why-a-border-fence-wouldnt-work

            As to “Coyotes, AND employers,” I don’t think there’s any reluctance to prosecute human traffickers, but finding witnesses willing to testify can be a problem.

            Penalties for illegal employers are monetary only, and cases are often settled before going to court. Changing this would require legislative action, which seems unlikely anytime soon.

          • JS

            “It is critical to recognize that fencing… is not a solution, it is only a tool. ”

            I agree 100%, and a tools that should be used.

            “All it really does is buy you time where a crosser could otherwise quickly escape or assimilate.”

            Exactly, it buys time, while no fence does not.

            As to illegal employers, I no action seems unlikely, but it IS necessary, and the problem will NOT be resloved until this is addressed.

            I have no beef with people seeking a better life, I do not fault them for trying to enter the USA illegally. They are not “taking jobs” but the employers are giving those jobs away. A severe crack down on employers (and gov’t benefits to illegals) is the onlt thing that will stop the problem: No jobs, no illegals

        • CSNIronclad

          Maybe if you shot the coyotes that smuggle the kids in the head you might deter some of this activity. They are being paid – it would be part of the risk

          • hennorama

            CSNIronclad — yes, murder is a great solution.

            Judge, jury and executioner much?

          • CSNIronclad

            Murder is premeditation. Stating that if you cross a zone, lethal force will be used is not. I assume you have a smarter solution then? Ask them in for tea and cakes? You do realize that the coyotes charge $5 – 10 K per kid, and a lot of that goes for bribes to the drug gangs and Mexican police. It’s a business with them – so let’s make it more challenging.

          • hennorama

            CSNIronclad – thank you for your response.

            No, “Murder is not premeditation” whatever it was that you meant by that sentence. Only first degree murder requires premeditation.

            Your suggestion of lethal force being applied indiscriminately at the US border is ludicrous, and requires no further response.

            Your claim that “the coyotes charge $5 – 10 K per kid,” is without any definitive support, and anecdotal information such as that is not terribly useful.

          • CSNIronclad

            You said murder. That is unsanctioned, lethal use of force. I certainly would not suggest that, , but stating that lethal force would be used to defend the border is not ludicrous. Not against children, but against the people that are trafficking them, the coyotes. Otherwise you are just playing catch and release with them, and lining their pockets.

            The price i quoted is the one used on many NPR reports, and of course varies with the person being escorted and the quality of the journey. I don’t think my figures are incorrect. If this money is being sent by relatives in the states, it is certainly a criminal conspiracy to bring people into the USA. That’s called trafficking , but it won’t be punished by the current justice department.

            Rewarding bad behavior makes more bad behavior.

          • hennorama

            As previously stated, your suggestion of lethal force being applied indiscriminately at the US border is ludicrous, and requires no further response.

          • CSNIronclad

            I did not say indiscriscimately. You said that. I said target the human traffickers – the coyotes. If lethal force is ok at a prison or secure facility, why not the border? If you make entry risky, you lower the flow.

            I never suggested targeting the kids, but I would return them immediately by changing the 2008 law. I would also seek to find who funds the transfers and prosecute.

          • hennorama

            CSNIronclad — clearly you have no idea how deadly force is applied by law enforcement or corrections officers.

            There are no circumstances under which deadly force is legally applied without necessity and justification.

            You wrote, “Maybe if you shot the coyotes who smuggle the kids in the head …”

            Shoot them for doing what, exactly? Without any necessity or justification, that’s murder, plain and simple.

            Discriminate between “the kids” and the “coyotes,” to “target the human traffickers” how, exactly?

            Who are you going to recruit to simultaneously be judge, jury, and executioner, exactly?

            And FYI — “human trafficking” is not the same as “human smuggling.

          • CSNIronclad

            The law that is being misused to give this human flood asylum is specifically aimed at protecting people from human or sex trafficking. So if that is the case – the coyotes are nothing but slavers – and should be shot. If they are not, and this is a “refugee” crisis, then the law is being grossly misused.

            If you think that protecting the border does not fall under “necessary and proper”, then it’s no use to talk. The reason that we have 11 million plus criminals in the US (undocumented immigrants to put it in Democrat speech) is because we do not even get half serious about protection on the border. I guess you think that the military would not use lethal force if you tried to jump the fence at a base as “implausible” – I beg to differ.

          • JS

            How about arrest them and charge them with human trafficking? I hold no grudge against the poepl trying to come to the US. But those who exploit them, including Coyotes, AND employers, should be dealt with to the full extent of the law.

      • hennorama

        JS — thank you for your response.

        Which style of fence do you prefer, and how many armed watchtowers are needed (assuming you feel they are needed)?:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_German_border#mediaviewer/File:System_of_gdr_border_fortification.jpg

        http://37.media.tumblr.com/b3pVOZ1PqdyxedprLIlfkeKWo1_500.jpg

    • Salty

      My background: My wife is not American. She applied for the proper visa, received it and then we moved back to America. We did it the legal way. Now…

      1. Secure the border… in a fashion appropriate for the location, fence (they can work if they are built correctly), motion detectors, drones, people…
      2. Crack down hard on employers who hire illegal immigrant, not just fines but jail time.
      3. Speed up the process for applying and being granted work permits and other forms of visas.
      4. After 1 – 3 pursue a bipartisan plan to allow legal status for the illegal immigrants who will go through the process.
      5. Don’t allow those granted legal status to vote. That would take away a huge wedge from this issue. Republicans won’t fear that the Dems are just trying to create a block of Dem voters. Dems get their way and the illegals “come out of the shadows.”

      • JS

        I agree with most of what you say, except “After 1-3″ because there are Teabaggers and Republicans who will never admit to #1 being completed so as to avoid doing #’s 2-5

        And anyone who becomes a citizen votes, no exceptions.

        • Salty

          I agree. …a plan for legal status, not citizenship. My wife is “legal” – green card and all – but can never vote unless she becomes a citizen.

          I would also create some type of bipartisan commission and have non politicians on the commisiom to certify the security of the broader.

          A huge issue now is trust. Many folks don’t trust the current regime. They would fear that with a pen and a phone call the “tough parts” of any deal could be ignored via executive order. I would think many also fear the influence of those that proffit and prosper from cheap illegal labor.

          • JS

            How can you trust a party who’s main goal was thwarting this president at every turn?

          • Salty

            I wouldn’t say they are trying to thwart “him”. I would say they are trying to slow or stop his agenda and policies. When so few things the current regime have advocated have turned out to be correct or even helpful, there needs to be a strong opposition.

          • JS

            Actually, there #1 goal was “No second term” for Obama. HIs health care plan was a Republican, conservative plan (Heritage foundation, Romneycare, where was the single payer?) His immigration policy id indistinguishable form Bush and Reagan’s, except Obama has deported WAY MORE illegals.

            They are trying to slow or stop everything he proposes, just because he proposes it.

          • HonestDebate1

            That is the goal of every opposition party. Democrats did all they could to limit GWB to one term. Republicans did all they could to limit Bill Clinton to one term. This is a game for big boys.

          • JS

            And yet Dems joined with Bush on Afganistan, Iraq, Medicare expansion, Tax cuts, etc.

          • HonestDebate1

            It sure wasn’t out of the goodness of their hearts in the name of compromise. It was in the best interest of the Country. Bush led.

          • JS

            Right, they did what was best, despite it helping a Republican. Thank you for making my point.

          • HonestDebate1

            I did not make your point. The Democrats helped Republicans help the country. You don’t see Obama letting Republicans write major legislation the way Bush allowed democrats to do. Republicans are helping the country by opposing Obama. Just like democrats helped America by opposing closing Gitmo, letting the Bush tax cuts expire, opposing single payer and not voting for his budgets.

          • JS

            Sorry, but just because the Republicans say they are “helping the country” doesn’t make it so. Iraq did not help the country.

          • HonestDebate1

            I disagree and as you just explained, democrats did too.

          • Ray in VT

            The best interest of our country was not to buy into Bush’s lies as he led us down the road to ruin in Iraq or the idiotic idea that we can tax cut our way to getting rid of the deficit and debt. He sure did lead us, just in the wrong direction, and yet he seems to not harbor doubts about the things that his administration did, despite how things have turned out. That is the sort of blind leadership that will lead people off of a cliff, and it did.

          • Salty

            Seems like there are a few issues there for you. I won’t convince but …

            “Romney care” is significantly from O care and you don’t have to live in Mass.

            I didn’t say I liked Bush’s immigration plan. Reagan’s plan never happened. The border was never secured. Amnesty and then lock down the border. Well, we got the first but not the second.

            A “no second term” plan would be fine and justified if one thought the country would be damaged greatly by a continuation of the the first term agenda. Well, it seems objectively obvious who’s predications were correct. In all my years I have never seen the country in the shaped wa are in now. I don’t think we have ever been this divided and this insignificant on the world stage.

          • Salty

            In my personal opinion, we are living through a te

          • JS

            Reagan got exactly what he wanted: cheap labor through Amnesty, and continued cheap labor through a non-secured border.

            If Romneycare is so different (it’s not), they why was Romneys only gripe with Obamacare was that it should be a start decision, not federal?

            The “No Second term” mantra started before Obama even took office, so there was no first term agenda enacted as yet.

            Considering the shape we where in when Obama took office (collapsing economy, millions of jobs lost in months, etc) I think we have come back, not far enough, not fast enough, but slow and steady, despite obstructionism from Congress.

            As to being divided, surely the Right has a hand in that?

            As for the world stage, surely the Iraq fiasco limited Americas options to act anywhere else, and lead to many of the problems we are seeing now (i.e. advancement of Al Queda groups).

            If Romney had been president and had killed as many Al Queda as Obama has (or deported as many illegals) the Right would be in the streets praising him.

          • Salty

            So, objections are only due to the fact that PO proposed something and not because of a disagreement on principal?

          • JS

            There has always been disagreements on principal, always will be.

            Clinton and Gingrich had plenty, yet still worked together. “Compromise” was not such a dirty word then.

          • Salty

            I agree, compromise is not a bad word.

            But we seem to have an executive that has forgotten that the role of an executive is to execute, not legislate or adjudicate. The separation of powers creates three co-equal branches. It seems to me that the current executive branch acts as if the legislative branch’s role is to approve rather than legislate.

            The executive is not doing it’s job if it can’t generate ideas that could ever pass through the legislative process. The legislative body isn’t doing their’s if they pass bills that the executive will never sign.

            The idea of the “phone and pen” just poisons the process.

          • JS

            “The executive is not doing it’s job if it can’t generate ideas that could ever pass through the legislative process”

            But if the legislature sees every idea, even ideas previously endorsed by the right, from the executive as the worst idea ever, how is that the executives fault? Should he only put forth their ideas? If Obama proposed a border fence, the right would not agree with it and would demand a border wall, If Obama proposed a wall, they would want a moat, etc.

            The Congress has let the process breakdown to the point that there is no process. The executive has a deal of sway in how laws are enacted and enforced, always has, and other presidents have used it, some more than Obama, but they were Republican, so its was not seem as treasonous, as some have claimed about Obama.

      • hennorama

        Salty – thank you for your response.

        Congratulations on successfully navigating the US immigration system. Did you get married overseas first, or did your spouse apply for a 90 day Fiancé(e) Visa? Is your spouse now a US citizen?

        As to your points:

        First of all, I see nothing at all about paying for your ideas. Where would the funds come from, and how would any increased funding get through the current Congress?

        1. About one-third (~650 Mi.) of the US – Mexico border, which is 1,954 miles long, are fenced at present. There are UAVs already in service there, and various other detection methods, such as cameras, motion sensors, infrared detection, hundreds of watchtowers, etc., etc. There are also mobile surveillance systems already deployed. The geography, property owner objections, environmental and cost concerns, have prevented a full-length continuous border barrier fence. However, there are also more than 18,000 Border Patrol employees assigned to that border, which is about 90 percent of all BP employees. In contrast, there are fewer than 500 BP employees assigned to the US – Canadian border. In other words, significant resources have been committed to our southern border already. It’s difficult to determine any added benefit to committing more time, money, and personnel.

        Fences are simply a tool that buys time to apprehend a border crosser who would otherwise escape and/or blend in very quickly. All fences can be penetrated, and all can be dug under, cut, or gone over, eventually. They do have some deterrent value, but they also can push crossers into other alternatives, such as the ocean.

        2. Changing employer penalties would require some Congressional action. Good luck with that. FYI – monetary penalties against employers are up about 30-fold under the Obama administration compared to the prior administration. Of course, they were virtually nonexistent under Pres. Bush II, so that’s an easy comparison.

        3. Speeding up visa processing has its pros and cons. One negative would be if important information about the applicant was somehow missed in any effort to go faster. Letting potential national security threats into the country may result. Another negative is having immigrants replacing qualified, employable US residents.

        4. Your first three items are unlikely to occur anytime soon, how do you justify effectively ignoring the issues of 11 million or so undocumented immigrants who are already here?

        5. Not allowing “those granted legal status to vote” implies they could never become US citizens. Why do you want to create another permanent underclass?

  • HonestDebate1

    I’d like to give a shout out to Dr. Joe “Medicine” Crow!

  • Ray in VT

    “The demonization of carbon dioxide is just like the demonization of the poor Jews under Hitler,” says Princeton Physics Professor, and longtime climate skeptic William Happer. Dr. Happer apparently also is the Chairman of the Board of the George C. Marshall Institute, which has received substantial fossil fuel industry money, and which was once headed by Frederick Seitz, the originator of the hilarious Oregon Petition.

    • brettearle

      If I’m not mistaken, the Marshall Institute has championed the causes of the cancer-denier Tobacconists.

      If there’s one thing [among many of course] that sticks in my craw is a spokesman who throws around the Nazi analogy for inflamed and pandering purposes.

      • Ray in VT

        Seitz appears to have taken tobacco money and denied its role in causing cancer long after it was entirely apparent that smoking was causing cancer. Why a physicist would have been a member of R.J. Reynold’s science advisory team seems strange, except that perhaps his name had clout, based upon previous work, that was beneficial to the company.

        • brettearle

          Strange bedfellows.

          Once again, those who cling to intractable and obstinate beliefs and values always wind up wreaking havoc around, and about Institutes, Firms, Think Tanks, and Lobbying Groups–so as to influence political action and public opinion.

          • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

            They are being paid to ignore reality and deny science.

    • TFRX

      Who will be CO2′s Oskar Schindler?

  • HonestDebate1

    Glenn Beck has raised $1.9 million for food, water, clothing and toys for the kids at the boarder. Ted Cruz is joining his efforts. They both staunchly oppose Obama’s policies on illegal immigration but there is a human tragedy in our face. When OP did a show I commented to say, “somebody hug them, please”.

    What has the compassionate left done to help the children?

    • Ray in VT

      The President has been trying to act, but there seems to be a lack of willingness to deal with this legal situation by his political opponents in Congress. I think that this situation requires a government response, but this page lists a number of groups recommended by a human rights campaigner:

      http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2014/07/how-help-unaccompanied-border-kids-without-donate-glenn-beck

      • HonestDebate1

        That is one disgusting article.

        • Ray in VT

          I know. All of those do-gooders. Disgusting.

          • jefe68

            He’s is such a charmer.

        • Steve__T

          Yea and you, are one disgusting commenter.

      • hennorama

        Ray in VT — it’s so bizarre to politicize charity and simple humanitarian aid, as [Debates?NotHe] does by writing “What has the compassionate left done to help the children?”.

        As usual, good news and good deeds seldom get much media coverage.

        There’s also a much larger list of What you can do to help the US’ 52,000 child migrants on vox.com (which was also linked to in the article in your post):

        http://www.vox.com/2014/7/14/5895277/children-border-how-help-donate-volunteer-foster-immigrants-refugees

        • Ray in VT

          Generally I’m not one who is much for tooting my own horn or for those who do.

          • hennorama

            Ray in VT — TYFYR.

            Yeah, I’m the same way.

            Oh, before I forget, there are these, too, from latimes.com:

            L.A. to help shelter detained immigrant children, Mayor Garcetti says

            See:
            http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-mayor-garcetti-immigrant-children-20140715-story.html

            On Texas border, volunteers get to work to help flood of immigrants

            The estimated 800 volunteers at the hastily organized immigrant relief center are retirees and businessmen, stay-at-home moms and students from nearby University of Texas-Pan American. Organizers from Catholic Charities have been joined by the Salvation Army, by Baptists, Methodists and Episcopalians. Teachers have brought their classes. An evangelical radio host summoned followers. In a region where many residents live in shacks and trailers without electricity, the center has received so much donated food that much of it is being stored offsite.

            See:
            http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-border-welcome-20140711-story.html#page=1

          • Ray in VT

            Certainly those in the public eye can do a great deal to raise the profile of an issue and draw in money, but the work of so many small and local groups or individuals go unnoticed, unrecognized and unheralded. All who contribute, though, deserve praise for their work.

          • hennorama

            Ray in VT — yes, but those who are “unnoticed, unrecognized and unheralded” aren’t in it for the praise, or for the attention.

            They simply do what’s right, then go on to the next thing.

        • HonestDebate1

          #Bringbackourgirls

    • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

      Where are they boarding on the border?

      • nj_v2

        But he knows the difference between peddle and pedal.

        Maybe someday he’ll learn the plural of words ending in st.

    • anamaria23

      Many of us are donating to charitable groups helping the children. The archdiocese of Fort Worth is caring for 600 under 13, Massachusetts is preparing to take 2000 in two locations for up to 4 months.
      Kudos to Glenn Beck, but many from the left and right are working quietly to help.

      • HonestDebate1

        I know they are. Americans are that way. I was really referring to the liberal punditry that paints Beck as a monster. I’m glad (but not surprised) to know you are doing what you can.

        • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

          The jokers who blocked the buses (in Arizona?) need to take notice of their fellow Americans. They should be ashamed of themselves. And all the ranters on Fox should be ashamed, as well.

        • TFRX

          Hey, how’s that slut, prostitute wife of yours?

          Now that’s what a monster says.

          Thanks, Rush!

          • HonestDebate1

            Your logic is impeccable

      • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

        The Mayor of Dallas is arranging to take 2,000 children, as well.

    • TFRX

      Keep JAQing it, bub.

    • jefe68

      Bottom feeding again. Using a crisis as an excuse to post lame screeds, what a maroon.

    • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

      FTA:
      Before the sun rose on Saturday, Glenn Beck, Dana Loesch, Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas), and Rep. Randy Weber (R-Texas) went to the border in McAllen, Texas as part of Mercury One’s border relief effort.

      http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/07/19/photos-glenn-beck-dana-loesch-and-louie-gohmert-visit-the-border-before-sunrise/

  • nj_v2

    http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/israeli-palestinian-children.html

    Israeli strike kills four Palestinian children playing soccer on Gaza beach

    Four Palestinian children from the same family were killed today by an Israeli attack, a deadly, harrowing event witnessed by many Western journalists. Above is footage from NBC of a mother searching for her son, who was killed in the attack.

    Initial reports were that the children were slain because of Israeli naval shelling, though Israeli journalists are reporting that it was an air strike.

    The Agence France Presse reports their names and ages as: Ismail Mahmoud Bakir, 9, Ahed Atef Bakir, 10, Zakariya Ahed Bakir, 10, and Mohammad Ramiz Bakir, 11. The four kids from the Bakir family were playing soccer on a Gaza beach. The news outlet Media 24 posted this photo purportedly showing the before and after of the attack:…

    (snipped)

  • pm05

    The Israelis targeted TARGETED children playing on the beach. When are we going to stop supporting Israelis murdering Palestinians! When?

    • tbphkm33

      When we break the strangle hold U.S. pro-Israel special interests have over Washington, D.C. The day Israel is no longer a de-facto American colony, Tel-Aviv will have to start considering the human rights of the Palestinian’s they have enslaved into ever smaller reservations.

    • Salty

      pmo5, This may help…

      Perhaps the Israelis will stop their attack when they are convinced the rockets will cease to be fired against them on a regular basis and when the Hammas terrorists will stop using the Palestinian areas as a base for operations. (The rockets fall daily and the terrorists have built a series of tunnels to support their operations…) What about the missiles being hid in UN operated areas, in schools and civilian areas? The Israelis use weapons to protect civilians while Hammas is using civilians to shield their rockets.

      Thanks,

  • nj_v2

    Late-breaking jacka**ery update! Too good to hold until next week…

    http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/minnesota-goper-fossil-record-proves-humans-lived-alongside-dinosaurs

    Minnesota GOPer: Fossil Record Proves Humans Lived Alongside Dinosaurs

    Bob Frey, a Michele Bachmann ally and Republican candidate for the Minnesota House of Representatives, wants public schools to teach students that humans and dinosaurs lived together.

    Frey, who also has his own bizarre theory about HIV/AIDS, alleged in a 2004 appearance before the Minnesota State Senate Education Committee that the fossil record proves that “dinosaurs have always lived with man,” and such “real science” should be taught in public schools.

    Bluestem Prairie dug up the video:…

    Bluestem Prairie also reports that Frey used to run a group called Creation Science Seminars, which claimed that teaching Creationism would reduce the rate of violence that the theory of evolution had apparently brought upon communities.

    • Ray in VT

      Awesome. Can we get Intelligent Falling taught in physics too?

      • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

        Its a conspiracy!! All atoms KNOW which way to fall! The Intelligent Designer must have taught them!

  • nj_v2

    Wait, there’s more…

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/17/limbaugh-eerie-crash-of-malaysian-flight-is-an-opportunity-to-save-obama-from-border-crisis/

    Limbaugh: ‘Eerie’ crash of Malaysian flight is an ‘opportunity’ to save Obama from border crisis

    Radio host Rush Limbaugh on Thursday said that the news media was covering the crash of a Malaysian flight that went down in the Ukraine because it was an “opportunity” to save President Barack Obama from the crisis of refugee women and children coming to the U.S. border.

    “It’s a Malaysian Airlines jet,” Limbaugh explained to his listeners. “I’ve got the British Open [golf tournament] on the top monitor. I haven’t had CNN on all day. What do you want to bet they have broomed everything, and are covering wall-to-wall the Malaysian Airlines flight shot down by a missile?”

    “I don’t want to appear to be callous here, folks,” he continued. “But you talk about an opportunity to abandon the bad Obama news at the border!”

    Limbaugh insisted that he wasn’t “suggesting anything other than how the media operates.”

    “It’s really eerie, why would it be shot down?” he asked. “Over Ukraine, it was shot down by a missile. This would lead one to believe that it is not an accident.”

    In fact, CNN wasn’t the only network that devoted major airtime to the downed jet. Fox News also began wall-to-wall coverage immediately after the crash.

  • CSNIronclad

    To Trudy Rubin, who called a US representative “disgusting”. Lady – you are the one that should be called that – supporting the rights of criminals invading the USA – these kids are paying for the trip!

  • Arkuy The Great

    In other news The Honourable Senator From Massachusetts Elizabeth Warren, that valiant warrior for the 99% and the Middle Class, turns out to be a supporter of that crony-capitalist facilitator of Big Corporatism, the Export-Import Bank.

    https://twitter.com/JonahNRO/status/490200397923885056

    http://townhall.com/tipsheet/conncarroll/2014/07/18/elizabeth-warren-backs-corporate-welfare-bank-n1863643

    No, I am not getting tired of pointing out her serial hypocrisy.

    • TFRX

      Clownhall. Hahahaha.

      • Arkuy The Great

        No worse than Mother Goose, CommunistDreams, PuffHost or any of the other VLWC rags that get linked in here.

        Mutual recriminations aside, would you care to comment on the substance of my posting?

        • nj_v2

          “Substance”?

          Hahahaha!!

          • TFRX

            PS I noted that someone slagged you for “bigfooting” me re the Worst YMCA Summer Camp Bus Trip Ever.

            Like that bothers me. Actually, when something I post makes your “Worst of the Week” list, I consider it a bit of a feather in cap.

            (And i’d like someone who has the chops to rewrite “Hello Muddah Hello Faddah” for these kids on the YMCA bus.)

          • nj_v2

            Yeah, that was the resident, admitted TPer. As intellectually dishonest as they come. Pure deflection; he never responded to any of the substantive points.

            I honestly hadn’t seen that you posted it already, it wouldn’t have mattered if i had, and i knew you likely wouldn’t care.

            Yeah, where’s Allan Sherman when you need him?

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            Part of the problem in modern politics is that people like you talk AT not WITH people you disagree with. But it is a problem that shall correct itself.

          • nj_v2

            I asked you a number of clear, straightforward questions earlier. You dodged them, posted nonsense deflection, and are now playing holier-than-thou. Tiresome schtick. If you can’t deal with some sparks, politics isn’t your field.

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            If you can’t take the heat stay out of the kitchen eh? Good policy.

            I can take the heat just fine,
            I have a tall glass of Iced Tea!

            I am sorry you are not satisfied with my responses. I am not satisfied with what you post in response either.

          • nj_v2

            Oh, i see. “Iced Tea.” An attempt at a joke. Ha ha. Is “Iced Tea” a brand name? Part of a fundraising effort?

            Once again, you get called on your posing and deflect with lame humor. Starting to see the pattern here. Nobody home.

          • jefe68

            What do you think you do pal?

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            Noted will remember that in future.

          • brettearle

            “Straight Talkin’”

            Hello Kwasman,
            Hello Brewer…

            Here I am in….AZ’s Sewer

            You remember…pol McCain
            He…has…spun…it…thus….and…. said,

            “We’re on his Train.”

          • hennorama

            brettearle — regarding McCain, and the nitwit who mistook the YMCA bus, perhaps you could work in:

            Straight Talk Express

            - and -

            Hate Squawk/Stalk/Gawk/Walk Excess

            (Just spitballin’)

          • brettearle

            [g] sometime from Henn?

          • brettearle

            Can you get Guy Fawkes in there, somehow?

          • HonestDebate1

            As Sarah Palin and Rush remain right.

        • TFRX

          The substance?

          If Clownhall and Tucker the Fuukker get something accurate, eveyr one has it.

          If they get are the only ones saying something, it’s wrong.

          Hey, I don’t care that you’re ignorant of the Wingut Welfare Gravy Train and what you like to pretend is “left wing” and how conservatives used to give a damn about journalism.

          This isn’t about you. It’s just a note to public radio to retain the smarts to ignore the Clownhallers.

          • HonestDebate1

            What sources do you trust?

          • TFRX

            Normally I’d say “You propose. I’ll dispose.”

            But at some point, your track record of bullshit means: Anyone you trust isn’t trustworthy.

          • HonestDebate1

            But I listen to Rush and read Sarah Palin’s Facebook posts, you can’t get any more trustworthy than that.

          • TFRX

            Yawn. Tired of your bullshit.

          • HonestDebate1

            Then leave me alone.

          • jefe68

            If you don’t want people to comment, don’t post rubbish.
            If you post and you are fair game as is anyone else.

            You don’t like it you could just stop posting. It’s that simple.

          • HonestDebate1

            I don’t care if they comment or not, I’m not the one complaining.

          • jefe68

            You did above, or was that just whining.

          • nj_v2

            ^ The trolling devolves

          • Steve__T

            Trustworthy. HAHAHHHaaaa ha ha ha haaaa

          • HonestDebate1

            Yes, I’ll give you examples. When NPR was touting Obama’s pledge to close Gitmo Rush said this:

            “Don’t deal in things that aren’t real. Don’t get yourself worked up about something that isn’t going to happen. We got real things to get worked up about here. But closing Gitmo isn’t going to happen. It’s not going to happen. It is not going to happen. He’s not going to close Gitmo.” -Jan. 16, 2009

            Here’s Sarah on Oct. 21, 2008:

            “After the Russian army invaded the nation of Georgia, Senator Obama’s reaction was one of indecision and moral equivalence, the kind of response that would only encourage Russia’s Putin to invade Ukraine next.”

            Take it to the bank.

          • jefe68

            Wow, delusional thinking and you’re endorsing it. No one takes anything that Palin says with any seriousness except fools and likeminded ideologues.

          • HonestDebate1

            She was right, how is that delusional?

          • Arkuy The Great

            Since you avoid addressing it despite my invitation I must assume your answer is “no”. TYFYR. [drops mike]

    • nj_v2
      • Arkuy The Great

        Yes, all of the sudden Lizzie finds it “complicated”. Just as much as she finds it “complicated” to bring justice to the Big Banksters who brought our country to the brink of fiscal ruin a few years back, searing campaign rhetoric notwithstanding.

        Apparently this is her meaning when she says “I’ll fight for you!” in a breathy voice with piercing eyes.

        • JGC

          I think that because the big firms (GE, Boeing, Caterpillar, etc) are getting benefit from Ex-Im Bank, the fact that the small businesses are also getting life support is overlooked in the discussion. The US is not providing the loan money directly; they provide the loan guarantee which permits the banksters to sign loans to small businesses at an affordable rate. I read the default rate on Ex-Im Bank loans is around 0.2% – Maybe to keep the default rate this low, and to keep the interest on the loans affordable, it is necessary to enlist the big companies in eligiblity for Ex/Im Bank loans. I personally would prefer they use their own offshore holdings to finance their new contracts, but maybe this is the tradeoff to provide a backstop to the small US exporting companies.

          • Arkuy The Great

            Finally, a substantive comment on the matter aside from the talking-point laced, head burying dismissals my comment elicited.

            Yes, the principal beneficiaries of ExIm are Boeing, Caterpillar, GE and United Technologies. That smaller companies benefit, quite frankly, seems more of an afterthought than anything else. I remain convinced that ExIm is more a show of political favoritism for a limited number of legacy, large companies who, it should be noted, count for a huge sum of US exports. Admittedly the aerospace industry globally is marbled with political considerations and not just on our side. There is a good reason, after all, why European airlines are almost all exclusively Airbus equipped and it is not because those planes are that much better than Boeing’s. FWIW, I accept ExIm as an unfortunate aspect of the politics of global trade and merely serves as a counterbalance to the “launch aid” and other such government supports available to competitors overseas. Still, I also find it rich that a self-appointed crusader for the “little guy” like Warren either cannot see the inconsistency with that message or just does not care.

      • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

        The definition of self parody:

        “A complicated issue turned into a glib, simplistic smear by the tireless forum conservoclown posse.”

        Big government programs must be good! Big Government ueber alles!!

        • nj_v2

          More simplistic prattle.

          “Big government” “Small government”

          Meaningless slogans.

          There are programs that perform certain functions, serve certain segments of the population, have certain consequences.

          “Bigness/smallness” is generalized nonsense.

          What programs work and for whom? Which ones need modification/expansion/elimination?

          These are questions serious people address.

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            These Are questions serious people address. I am not in favor of corporate welfare. But i am willing to give a fair hearing to those that support it.

          • nj_v2

            ^ Poser

    • JGC

      It is not hypocrisy. Elizabeth Warren is a champion of small business and the middle class. She is in favor of providing credit backstops to small businesses, thereby protecting US employment attributed to foreign purchasing. Domestic insurers have zero interest in providing an affordable insurance product to small U.S. exporting companies during this time when we are emerging from an economic downturn.

      There are no insurance companies demanding free market access for providing small US exporting firms with a product that protects them from currency risk, political risk, transportation risk, and all the other risks entailed in a global market as a small company.

      (As an aside, the global re-insurance industry has spoken on its view about climate change, and it is not favorable toward “clean coal” advocates and climate-change deniers.)

      • Arkuy The Great

        ExIm primarily benefits a narrow slice of big US corporations. It does little to nothing for small businesses. It is the poster child for “corporate welfare”. For that reason alone Warren should be at least somewhat critical of it, even if politically it needs to be kept. Her unflinching support is completely off her message. Yes, hypocrisy!

    • JONBOSTON

      She’s also claims to be an American Indian, one-one thousand of her heritage. It’s helped her win coveted jobs at various law schools who seek diversityof all thigs other than opinions. what a joke. what a farce.

  • marygrav

    Obama has become as big a hypocrite as Bush was as president. He is moaning about the Russians arming the Russian-Ukraine, whose goverment was overthrown in an illegal coup, while it arms the Israelis to murder the Palestinians with weapons supplied by the United States.
    John J. Mearsheimer in “Why Leaders Lie” helps US to understand the pressures that leaders are under to lie. But I am not a child. I don’t need lies to make me not be afraid of the dark.

    He criticises Russia for protecting its Black Sea Navy by commandeering the port in Crimea. But he does not understand that this is what the US has done with Gutanamo City. The Cubans have no say in the matter even though this is a foreign country.

    We at this date should understand that the American people lost control of its Congress throgh the organized efforts of various Lobbys. The House that Eric built gives an outside power the right to wag US. As the caller says “nobody can tell the truth,” or no politician can tell the truth and keep his or her job, T-Party or not. The only glimmer of hope is the fact that Eric Cantor was not reelected. But the poison is already in the House as he choose his successor: The Young Gun from California. He will shoot down any chance of the Obama administration cutting of funds for weapons.

    Netanyhu has overplayed his hand in trying to disrupt the Two-State Solution. The death of the 3 Israeli students was gold for his purposes. He used it as an excuse to “Mow the Grass” in Gaza. But this becomes problematic when he shouts: Never Again, while allowing the IDF to act like the SS.
    Jews are in a delicate position in the world. They want to be White; but they do not want to take the criticism that goes with whiteness, or for that matter blackness. Any criticism is chalked up to Anti-Semitism or like Daniel Jonah Goldhagen writes, The Devil That Never Dies.

    The more people see the Netanyahus or “Little Eichmann, ruling Israel and acting out while wagging the Americans, the more the Holocaust, as a moral crime fades. They behave in a way that lets you understand that “Your Blues Ain’t Like Mine.”
    There is a episod from the original Star Trek in which a young man, or orphan human that was raised in an alien culture that gave him supper powers by using his mind. When he decided he wanted to go back to Earth aboard the Enterprise, he causes havoc when he cannot have his own way. Finally, the aliens had to board the Enterprise and take him back because he was too evil and powerful to live with other humans. Perhaps this is what the United States has done in its relationship with Israel.

    I doubt that this missive will be published without being blocked because Americans cannot stand too much truth.

    • tbphkm33

      Overall, American’s are masters of living in a fantasy world.

    • brettearle

      What you have written is both sickening and sick.

    • Beelzebub

      You are absolutely right marygrav and “brettearle” is usually the one who is “sickening and sick.” Just read his comments. He (or she, maybe) never plays with a “full deck”.

      • brettearle

        Oh, sure…

        Israel is Evil and

        Hamas and Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad…..they’re just about as kind-spirited as one can get.

        Yesirrreee…..

        There is NO question that it’s all of Israel’s fault.

        No question.

        We should drive them to the sea–now, shouldn’t we, Beelzie, baby?

  • Agnostic58

    Is Trudy Rubin a journalist or a State Department spokesperson? I can’t tell.

    • Ivan Gelfman

      Neither. Trudy Rubin is a Julie Kavner impersonator.

  • brettearle

    PBS’s “NewsHour” reports, today, that the Obama Administration has approved the use of `Sonic Cannons’ to detect Oil/Gas Deposits off the East Coast of the United States.

    At the same time, the Administration concedes that this procedure could, potentially, put `thousands of sea creatures’ in peril….

    • JS

      Obama, that damn environmentalist.

  • http://hammernews.com/ hammermann

    KIEV: Live UKR Blog fm US journo here http://HAMMERNEWS.blogspot.com
    UPDATED July 19 1am (GMT+2) EASTERN PUTINVASION! HAMMERNEWS.com

    DEADLY SKYS, 3 UKR PLANES DOWN, SLOVYANSK TAKEN!!! UKR WINNING!, UKR STARTS ATTACKS, SEPS TAKE 2 BASES- KILL 40?, DREAMWEAVER, TRANSPORT LOST- 49k, DEMOs at RUS EMBASSY, LUGANSK BORDER OPEN, 3 BASES, 3 Border crossings CAPTURED!, AIRPORT WIPEOUT, PORONATION, 17 SOLD. KILLED 27 w in AMBUSH, AHMETOV STEEL PATROLS- “DONBASS FUTURE is UKR!”, EU-OSCE-RU RADA CONF NAT. UNITY, 6d Ukr-9w CHARACTERISTICS OF FASCISM TWIT: @mkham11

    MIKE ON NPR US radio network on tragedy- Jul 18 @42:10 min

    In an act
    of incredible carelessness, cruelty, and criminality; Seps blasted a
    Malaysian airliner out of the sky over Donetsk with an advanced BUK
    truck launched 4 rocket missile system (SA-11 Gadfly), bragging to
    Russians that they had bagged another Ukr military plane. Although
    there are reports of a BUK at an Eastern Ukr base taken over by Seps,
    the belief is that separatist morons were given a Buk rocket system by
    their Russian
    sponsors- 298 dead. NEW audio calls
    released by Ukr SBU have Seps (Gurkin Deputy + GRU officer Sergei
    Petrovsky) discussing with his Russian GRU handler the disposition and siting of the BUK, Grad multi-missile systems, and 3 self-propelled artillery guns – Gvozdikas. It ends “We are waiting, it is likely Russia is to strike at their positions from their side”!!! Flying at 33,000ft, 10,000M on the regular airline
    transit corridor, the criminal fools just fired at anything
    they thought was a Ukr plane. AUDIO of Seps
    reporting to some Russian colonel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnuHxAR01Jo
    Report at crash site- burning parts, bodies strewn around
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZFAFTI8ORQ (graphic)

    My friend, intrepid Aussie fearless photog Demjin Roshed, spent the night at
    the crash site (with only 4 other journos- 3 fm Al Jazeera), and has
    many pics of Separatists looting the possessions of the victims. He
    counted 65 bodies in the mile square he explored, and said it was a
    charnal house, with pieces of children strewn about, “I saw things I
    never want to think about again.” His pics should imminently be on
    Aussie TV/Websites + here. Reuters has the incredible story:
    —- First came the loud explosion
    that made buildings rattle: then it started raining bodies.One of the
    corpses fell through the rickety roof of Irina Tipunova’s
    house in this sleepy village, just after Malaysia Airlines flight MH17
    exploded high over eastern Ukraine, where pro-Russian separatists are
    fighting government forces.

    “And then I heard a roar and she landed in the kitchen, the roof was
    broken,” she said, showing the gaping hole made by the body when it came
    through the ceiling of the kitchen in an extension to the house.”—

    This is what happens when you give advanced missile systems to
    criminal rabble. Of course it was an “accident” – nobody except maybe Al Qaida or Taliban
    would knowingly shoot down an airliner- but an accident created,
    enabled, and eminently foreseeable by Mr Putin. These missiles reach 72,000 ft, 14
    miles,
    and those imbeciles just saw a contrail in an established
    airroute and pressed the launch trigger. This is after Russia flooded
    Ukr with
    hundreds of IGLA Stinger-like shoulder-launched missiles, and the
    Strella vehicle-mount system (3 miles range). American UN Ambassador
    Samantha Power claimed that the systems were too advanced to be used
    without Russian advisors on-scene.

    According to my sources in the East, where I was about
    to go, Ukraine has been hamstrung by all these anti-aircraft systems,
    which almost all came from Russia: Ukr didn’t even use aircraft against
    the rebels fleeing Slovyansk (though they wiped out one column of 3 with
    tanks and/or artillery). Had they annihilated all of them, and started
    to move on Donetsk from the West, I think they could have panicked the
    Seps into fleeing to Lugansk, where they could have been slowly
    pushed into Russia.

    Ukraine was close to
    winning in the East, which Putin can’t allow- so Russian green men and
    weapons have been flooding across the still-porous border in the last 3
    days. With the vast missile hazards to Ukr, the scales are again more
    even.

    Ukr devastation from mass Grad rocket attack-

    Ukr has suffered grievously from these anti-aircraft missiles- 6-8
    helicopters lost, 2 large cargo planes (one with 49 soldiers), inc one
    in the last 4 days-2 pilots dead, and 2 recent SU-25 attack jets, one by
    missile (perhaps BUK), one by an air-to-air missile from a Russian jet
    (Ukr military claims it was infrared, actually produced in Ukr, so not
    pointing towards Russia), which may have actually been on the Ukr side
    of the border. As well 20-30 Ukr soldiers were killed by a Grad multiple
    missile attack- (“we are launching them nonstop”- Petrovsky) a
    wide field terror weapon that can hit everything in maybe a 3 football
    field zone- both sides have these, but Demjin says they aren’t the
    wildly inaccurate systems of yesteryear- that they now have laser
    targeting.

    The
    entire 108 person contingent of Dutch anti-AIDs experts was wiped out
    going to a Sunday Sydney AIDs conference, and there is great sorrow in
    Holland at the 200-odd nationals killed. From my rudimentary calcs, if
    the plane was 8 miles from the Buk, flight time to impact would have
    been 15 seconds- wonder if some sharp-eyed passenger sounded the alarm,
    only to be restrained as a terrorist threat. This may provoke
    further sanctions on Russia, who furiously started lying about the
    cause, but the weight of evidence has ensured the massive approbation of
    the world. The Napoleon of the North rubbed salt in the wounds-
    incredibly venally blaming Ukr for the fighting in the East in a
    conflict he single-handedly created out of nothing.

  • Cacimo

    I hope “On Point” will remove Ms. Rubin from the guest list. Referring to one of our elected representatives as a “right wing crack pot” is insulting to a large segment of the population. It is hard to respect or take seriously the opinion of someone who is incapable of polite discourse for even an hour.

    • TFRX

      Really?

      Tell us who the “rightwing crackpot” referred to is. There’s quite a number to choose from.

      (And don’t start the Bothsides Bullshit.)

    • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

      I would be refreshing if there were a broader panel. Different opinions and perspectives can lead to a more interesting program.

  • davecm

    Handing out pink slips to our troops on the battle field due to no MONEY, budget cuts they claim.
    Yet!!!! we can find 15M lying around to train the Mexican “do nothing” military. Shame!!!!!!!!!!

    We have 17M hungry kids here in USA who do not know where their next meal will come from.
    Yet!!! Obama wants 3.7M to feed, clothe and shelter illegal kids so they WIILL KNOW where their next meal will come from.

    Govt. having a hard time finding states to take the illegal kids.
    So!!! In a paper ad in Ca. seeking foster parents for the pooooor illegal refugees kids, will pay $6054/month for each kid, TAX FREE, healthcare paid by the taxpayer!!!!! That is over $72,000/yr.
    I bet they will find places for these kids to go now!!!!!

    When LBJ declared war on poverty over 50 yrs.ago, many praised the end of poverty, the Govt. will solve this problem.
    Yet!!!!!! some 50 yrs. later and some 20 Trillion spent, guess what??? the poverty problem is greater now than then!!!!!

    Wake UP America!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • HonestDebate1

    Let Putin have Crimea, what could go wrong?

    • TFRX

      Another warmonger heard from.

      Go away. little boy. The grownups are talking.

      • HonestDebate1

        See there, that’s a perfect example of the kind of shallow, condescending groupthink that goes on here. No one said anything about war. We had one commenter who said give Putin all of Ukraine to save the world. The absence of leadership creates a vacuum that will be filled by tyrants.

        • TFRX

          Bullshit.

          “No one said anything about war.”

          I gotcher Shallow Groupthink right here: John McCain. Everyone on right-wing radio. Everyone on Fox News. All saying “President Obama and Crimea is like Chamberlain and 1938.”

          And there was supposed to be something Obama could do that was “tougher”. We all know what that means.

          And it took your side’s fukkers about 10 minutes to blame this on Obama.

          Your polite bullshit isn’t fooling anyone.

          • HonestDebate1

            There is a world of tougher between Obama’s surrenders and war.

          • TFRX

            Ooh, you said “surrenders”.

            Mission accomplished.

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            Your are seeming to adopt the characteristics that you hate in others. Why?

          • TFRX

            I dunno. JAQ off much?

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            I am noticing a trend towards anger in your posts.

          • HonestDebate1

            He (or she) has a sweet side. I haven’t seen it in a while but these are hard times for liberals.

          • TFRX

            You get about half the scorn you deserve.

            And please, more dime-store diagnosis from those who’ve taken the Cracke Jack

            psychology course.

          • HonestDebate1

            Maybe if you dialed it back just a tad I could figure out what you are talking about.

          • TFRX

            Why is every right-wing crackpot here offering psychiatry through pixels, and how did ithey all get that magic app which does it?

            You really need to stop that “every liberal apologized like Alan Colmes” crap and join the real world.

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            It is confusing that some claim to be supporting tolerance and understanding by using profanity laced screeds. To point that contradiction out is not to offer psychiatry through pixels.

  • HonestDebate1

    Kudos to UN ambassador Powers for stepping up to the plate.

    • anamaria23

      Is Samantha Powers 100% certain that Putin can be blamed? Is John McCain 100% certain? It looks that way, but an independent investigation is the only way forward before falling into a trap and inciting Putin without proof.
      There are rumors, perhaps incited by the Russians, that Ukraine may have had a hand in it all. They need to be disproven absolutely.

      • TFRX

        John McCain?

        Yeah, lets do whatever he says! That’ll never go wrong!

        Funny how every righty here is jumping on the knee-jerk reaction and the need to be chest-beatingly quick and loud. (Note that that’s the right’s hammer–the only tool they have.)

        That didn’t fail us a decade ago

      • HonestDebate1

        I suppose it depends on how you define “blamed”. I have a hard time believing Putin just shot down a commercial airliner willy nilly but he is certainly to blame for letting bad guys play with his big toys. Most likely his trained loyalists made a grave error and did not realize it was a passenger jet. That’s my guess but it couldn’t have happened without his aggression.

  • Fredlinskip

    To have slightest hope of understanding the current Israel/ Palestinian conflict, it is necessary to clearly understand how it began:

    Did it start when Hamas killed 3 Israeli teens??- Hamas certainly did not take responsibility for the deed.
    So what then do we actually know?

    Teens were killed- nobody knows by whom.

    And because nobody knows by whom, Israel decided to first arrest hundreds of Palestinians and 1 Palestinian teen was burned alive.

    Netanyahu then announced “…there will be grave consequences”.

    These are the facts that precipitated the escalation.

    .Surely if Israel had ANY interest in actually finding out who was responsible for the killings, they would have at VERY LEAST ATTEMPTED to reach out to Palestinian Authority (who had shown complete cooperation in the search for the teens) in order to conduct an investigation, before ratcheting up the rhetoric and the missiles.

    So it would be logical to ask, “Why did Israel, who could reign Hell down on Palestinians at any moment they chose, wish not to at least ATTEMPT to establish facts first?

    One can only conclude that Israel awaits an excuse every few years to “mow the grass” and has absolutely zero interest in the well being of the Palestinians, or of peace, or “two-state” solution.

    Arbitrary murders will happen now and again especially in such a pressurized situation, where hatred is renewed every time the cycle of death is renewed. This is an obvious unfortunate fact of life.

    It would be a step forward if Israel actually pretended that it wished for a resolution when such incidents occur.

    Israel’s intent is abundantly clear-
    death, destruction and renewal of hate.

  • HonestDebate1

    So Obama skips out of Benghazi to go to a fundraiser. He didn’t call Malaysian or Ukrainian leaders until after his fundraisers. He was is Texas but didn’t go to the border to address the crisis, he was at a fundraiser.

    I see a lot of belly-aching around here about special interest and too much money in politics. You guys must be really mad.

    • jefe68

      Bottom feeding, yet again.
      This act as wannabe right wing shock jock is pretty pathetic.

      • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

        It’s not an act. I ‘m politically to the right of NPR. I enjoy shocking people because it makes them think for themselves (a habit many have gotten out of). And since the Worcester Tea Party won the Wiffle Ball Classic I have an immense trophy that proves I am a jock!

        • nj_v2

          Ha ha! Defensive much? He was responding to DisHonestGreggg.

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            I know that but it gave me a chance to mention my immense trophy. I hope that gives you a laugh.

        • jefe68

          You’re comment speaks more about your ego and mendacious nature than anything else. If you think you’re making people, such as myself think about your viewpoints with even an ounce of positive light, you are very much mistaken.

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            I am well aware that I am unable to make people such as yourself think.

    • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

      I am so very impressed that Sen Warren Spoke at a Common Cause $100 a plate dinner.

      What was the topic? Why the need to get money out of politics of course.

      • JGC

        There have been no lack of fundraising appeals by Rand Paul and Michele Bachman over the past couple of years sent to my mother’s home address. If Tea Party stalwarts like Paul and Bachman opt to fundraise for their PACs, I guess Elizabeth Warren has a right to raise a few bucks as well. In fact, the Republican-led Roberts Court guaranteed that fundraising expansion in Citizens United.

        Part of the Roberts Court fundraising freak-out had to do with the explosion of small donations by ordinary voters in the Obama 2008 campaign, which overwhelmed those advantages previously enjoyed by wealthy private and corporate donors. Citizens United attempts to restore the “natural order” of political fundraising life.

        • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

          Please expand on this and explain why you feel it is not hypocritical to claim to be against this practice while reaping in buckets of money in this way. I must remind you that neither Bachmann nor Paul is soliciting campaign donations based on the need to get money out of politics.

    • jimino

      When self-proclaimed fiscal conservatives cut off the corporate welfare, parochial spending in their home districts, and make those who primarily benefit from their enactments pay for them, you know, act like they talk, then maybe liberals can stop raising money to fight political battles.

      Until then, comments like yours are simplistic and childish calls for surrender in the face of right-wing aggression.

      • HonestDebate1

        So some special interests or okay, the end justifies the means. Gotcha’.

        It reminds me of when some Conservative is caught diddling and the libs scream hypocricy. “How can the party of family values do such a thing?!” That of course implies that no one expects libs to be moral because they don’t claim to be. I think that’s funny.

        You are making the same argument. No one expects libs to be fiscally responsible.

        • jimino

          I don’t think acting in the best interest of our country is just another “special interest”, as you apparently do. As long as money is speech, this is how anyone who wants to advance their cause, regardless of its obvious benefit to “we the people”, will have to act.

          • HonestDebate1

            I would advocate increased military spending, repealing Obamacare and opening up public land for fracking, all in the best interest of the country.

  • HonestDebate1

    “You said Russia. Not Al Qaida. You said Russia,” Obama said regarding biggest threats. “The 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because…the cold war’s been over for 20 years.” -President Obama

    “Russia, I indicated, is a geopolitical foe…and I said in the same paragraph I said and Iran is the greatest national security threat we face. Russia does continue to battle us in the U.N. time and time again. I have clear eyes on this. I’m not going to wear rose-colored glasses when it comes to Russia or Mr. Putin…” -Mitt Romney

    • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

      Hyper partisanship trumps what is in America’s best interest.

  • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

    Didn’t all the smart people make fun of Gov Romney for saying something like this when he was running for president? Now even David Frum will say it.

    FTA:
    Vladimir Putin’s ascent to power crushed those hopes. For a long time, however, Europeans—and Americans too—hesitated to acknowledge what was happening in Russia. There were some good reasons for this hesitation: Putin did sometimes cooperate with the Western world—in Afghanistan, for example. There were bad reasons too. As energy prices rose after 2000, the Russian economy recovered. Russia had more of value to sell to the rest of the world, and more money to buy things that the West had to sell—more money, too, to buy Western politicians.

  • davecm

    Someone please!!!! tell me what is the importance of allowing all these illegals into the USA?????????????????
    Are they Doctors, educators, miracle workers, inventors????
    All you lefties, liberals, progressives, whatever you are calling yourselves these days, please tell me your reasons????

    • anamaria23

      How about an attitude that says we wish we could take them in and make their lives whole, but we cannot. Meanwhile, let them be treated with respect, perhaps for the first time in their lives, then go through due process and send them back.

    • tbphkm33

      Delusional, do you somehow think there is a spigot that can be turned off and human migration will stop? Of course, it has to the be liberals who control this.

      No, the only thing wrong here is that in the past they did not prevent the ancestors of “davecm” to enter the country.

      • pete18

        Whew, talk about “delusional.” Davecm’s ancestors entered the country the same way Mexican immigrants are allowed to enter the country today. There is a legal process to get here, which any foreign citizen is welcome to go through to get here.

        A country has a right and responsibility to control its borders. Unless you believe in open borders, then you should be in favor of controlling the flow of immigrants that come here illegally. If you believe in open borders then you are sanctioning the end of a functioning country. Fences work, so do enforcing current laws.

    • hennorama

      davecm — are you a “Doctor, educator, miracle worker, inventor????”

      If not, why are you “allow[ed] … [to stay in] the USA?????????????????”

      Just curious.

      • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

        Who gets to decide what American immigration policy should be? I think it should be decided by American citizens.

        • hennorama

          RWB — we already have legislative and executive branches of government. Are you suggesting using polls or other methodology to change policy?

          • nj_v2

            Don’t expect a straight answer from him on any straightforward question. Seems to be part of the TP playbook to talk in nebulous generalities (Freedom! Liberty! Small government!).

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            No I am suggesting that our immigration system is not working in major part because we have ignored the rule of law. It is a foreseeable consequence of our decades of failure to live up to our laws.

      • davecm

        I was born here, I follow all the rules, I served my country for 6 years in the military, I work, I pay taxes, 17 years as a volunteer EMT, I don’t mind showing my papers when ask to and I know the difference between legal and illegal!

        • hennorama

          davecm — thank you for your response.

          That seems suspicious, in that you didn’t answer the first question. Your silence leads to the conclsuion that you are not a “Doctor, educator, miracle worker, inventor????,” so you might not pass your own standard for being “allow[ed] … [to stay in] the USA?????????????????”

          As a followup, please demonstrate that you are not a “taker,” in that when you “pay taxes,” those payments are in excess of the benefits you receive from the government.

          Thanks again for your response.

          • davecm

            Response is reflective of a true follower on the Democratic plantation!
            For your answer:
            A doctor, in a sense that a EMT saves the savable in the field.
            A educator, my life experiences inspire others to do the same, a Scoutmaster.
            A miracle worker, only God is a miracle worker; but I have saved the lives of many people, including a small child that had gone into cardiac arrest, she is alive today due to CPR and EMT training.

          • hennorama

            davecm — TYFYR.

            Congrats on the saves. No doubt they made all those other routine and terrifying calls worthwhile.

            I hope you realize that I was only half-serious in my comments in this thread, and was using the rhetorical political language of conservatives/Republicans/TEA Shindiggers, as well as your own words, against you, in an effort to poke some humorous holes in your comments.

            (However, being 100 percent serious, there is no ad that fits your description in another of your comments.)

            Thanks again for your response.

          • davecm

            The only ad I mentioned was the one in Ca. for foster parents..
            http://www.inquisitr.com/1355664/foster-immigrant-children-ad-offers-6000-per-month-to-guardians/

          • hennorama

            davecm — TYFYR.

            Indeed. You described the ad as follows; your link above shows this description is false (emphasis added):

            “… ad in Ca. seeking foster parents for the pooooor illegal refugees kids, will pay $6054/month for each kid, TAX FREE, healthcare paid by the taxpayer!!!!!!”

            As I wrote, no such ad exists.

    • jimino

      What laws have our authorities violated in the methods with which they have handled this influx of refugees?

      • davecm

        It is not that they are violating laws, they refuse to enforce the laws we already have concerning immigration. Does a state trooper violate any state laws when he ignores speeders going over the state speed limit?
        My post ask, why are these illegals treated better than the rest of us.
        My problem is that it is all politically motivated, This program, earlier, stated that this was the purpose of the Dems. to change the demographics in their favor, other words more dependents on the democratic plantation!

    • jefe68

      You are aware that it was GW Bush how changed the law about children, William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008.

      The rest of your screed is not worth the digital ether it’s written on.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/08/us/immigrant-surge-rooted-in-law-to-curb-child-trafficking.html?_r=0

      • HonestDebate1
        • jefe68

          A right wing rag with some right wing theories about the current immigration problem. Of course you would link to that.

          By the way the article does point to the law being Wilberforce law in congress to children crossing the border.

          • HonestDebate1

            Gee wiz, you guys need a new tune. The National Review is a respected rag. I can;t believe you are just swallowing the party line, actually I can. Look up the numbers Jeffe, Obama caused this crisis.

          • jefe68

            That article was a hit job. speaking of new tunes you keep on sing the ant-Obama screed song every day on this forum not matter what the show is about.
            I’m not in any party, and I never said anything about weather Obama had any blame in this crisis or not. You make assumptions because I call out the inanity of what you post.

            I dislike Obama, and I was never a huge supporter if him from the get go. He’s a centrist Wall Street Democrat who is part of our dysfunctional government. But the idiocy here is how the far right, of which you are clearly in congress with, keeps on spewing the most absurd and outlandish BS. Which what you’re doing in the above post. Instead of trying to understand the problem with some rational thought you just use the GOP and extreme right wing rhetoric.

            Of course I suspect you will poo poo Think Progress’ reporting on this issue.
            But it seems to line up with everything I’ve read about this.

            http://thinkprogress.org/immigration/2014/06/20/3450988/republicans-unaccompanied-children-crisis/

          • nj_v2

            That’s the thing with the right-wing bots on here.

            I can’t stand much of what Obama stands for, but my reasons for my opinions are entirely different from most of the stuff the right-wing pulls out their butts. There might be some overlap, but the rightwingers here seem to operate in some parallel, fact-distorted universe.

            Their solutions would be as bad or worse, since their opposition is based less on principal and more on fantasy and ignorance.

          • jefe68

            I hear that.

      • hennorama

        jefe68 — part of the irony is that many conservatives/Republicans/TEA Shindiggers (and others) are saying that President Obama should take unilateral action to speed up processing these unaccompanied minors from Central America, while simultaneously criticizing and suing the President over his unilateral actions.

        Meanwhile, Congress has done nothing about what they have called “a crisis at the border,” while President Obama has put a significant proposal forward.

  • tbphkm33

    Sad, with 80%+ civilian causalities in Gaza (now over 300 innocents), the military aggressors in Tel Aviv still claim they “do everything in their power to avoid killing civilians.”

    Hmm, a bit hard to look out for civilians when you herd 1.8 million people into a reservation the twice size of the District of Columbia – yes, not the DC metro area, just the District – then allow your U.S. financed military to to use the reservation as their private shooting gallery.

    It is a bit like walling off Manhattan Island, then forcing the rest of the NYC metro area population into the confines of the resulting slum of Manhattan. Then, utilizing F-16 and other highly advanced lethal military gear to indiscriminately hunt for a few thousand individuals amongst the millions.

    Can’t see their “god” wanting to have much to do with the “chosen people” of Israel.

    • Arkuy The Great

      This is more immoral:

      • tbphkm33

        So, after decades of confinement to a reservation – a prisoner on your own land, you are saying YOU would not fight back?

        Furthermore, are you that naive to accept Israel’s assertion that there is equivalency between simplistic Palestinian rockets (none of which have killed anyone) and highly sophisticated, the most modern, US financed military hardware targeting the occupied territories and having killed over 300?

        Problem is that a large percentage of American’s are so dumb that they think there is some sort of equivalency.

        • Arkuy The Great

          “Fight back” all you want. Just don’t assume your target won’t “fight back” back with superior firepower. And when that ultimately happens, as is the case now in Gaza, you might want to reconsider the prudence of such a move. That is, if you are capable of setting aside your death-wish fantasies.

    • pete18

      Here’s the conflict clearly described, “One side wants to live in peace, one side wants the other side dead.”

      https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152299543033717

  • Ahmad Alhassan

    Every time a non-state actor rises to resist the denial of Palestinian rights critics quicly band together to attack resistance:

    What is wrong with the moderate critique of resistance against Israeli imperialism?

    I speak as a self-declared moderate Arab who regards as
    counterproductive and self-defeating many, of the slogans raised by
    people on the side of the resistance, and many of the actions taken by
    them. Some advocates of resistance have sank as far as their tormentors
    have in deforming their own souls.

    http://theoriginalamed.blogspot.com/2014/07/resisting-israeli-imperialism.html

    اصلااح البيت العربي يبدء في فلسطين

    http://mudawwanatarabiyyah.blogspot.com/2014/07/blog-post.html

  • nj_v2

    Check out how part of the “liberal media” is handling the current Mideast crisis:

    http://www.fair.org/blog/2014/07/15/cbs-host-feels-for-israeli-victims/

    CBS Host Feels for Frightened Israelis–But Not Dead Palestinians

    Watching US coverage of the Israeli attacks on Gaza, you might get the sense that some outlets feel more sympathy for Israelis frightened by rockets fired from Gaza than for the hundreds of Palestinians in Gaza who have actually been killed by Israeli airstrikes. But some journalists don’t suggest they have more sympathy for Israel–they just come out and pretty much say so.

    That’s what CBS host Bob Schieffer did on the July 13 episode of Face the Nation. For starters, the program thought it needed to spend more time talking to Israelis. It featured interviews with two Israeli guests–Prime MinisterBenjamin Netanyahu and Ambassador Ron Dermer–and a shorter conversation with Palestinian Ambassador Maen Rashid Areikat.

    But it wasn’t just the disparity in the time allotted to the different sides; Schieffer made it plainly clear that the threat to Israel was more important to him. He began his conversation with Netanyahu by saying, “I understand as we begin this interview, Tel Aviv is again under an alert, that the sirens have just gone off.” He closed it by saying, “We’ll let you get back to work now, and keep your head down.”…

    (snipped)

  • Arkuy The Great

    In other news the process of cleansing Muslim-dominated areas of the infidel continues apace:

    “Christian families streamed out of the northern Iraqi city of Mosul on Saturday after Islamist fighters said they would be killed if they did not pay a protection tax or convert to Islam.

    “For the first time in the history of Iraq, Mosul is now empty of Christians,” Patriarch Louis Sako lamented as hundreds of families fled ahead of a noon deadline set by Islamic State for them to submit or leave.

    The warning was read out in Mosul’s mosques on Friday afternoon, and broadcast throughout the city on loudspeakers.

    “We offer [Christians] three choices: Islam; the dhimma contract – involving payment… if they refuse this they will have nothing but the sword,” the announcement read.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/10977698/Christians-flee-Iraqs-Mosul-after-Islamists-tell-them-convert-pay-or-die.html

  • HonestDebate1

    The world’s tyrants know who Obama is. They have measured his metal. Obama drew a red line in Syria when he warned there would be a price to pay if Assad started moving around and/or using WMD. So Assad waited about 4 months and started moving around (14 times) and using WMD. Obama did nothing. Kerry made a big threat of a military strike that would be “unbelievably small”. Putin stepped in to save Obama’s face. Syria promptly declared victory.

    Does anyone think Putin takes Obama’s threat of “costs” seriously?

    • nj_v2

      Did they measure his zinc? Lead? Aluminum?

      • HonestDebate1

        Allofum,

    • anamaria23

      AS long as folks like you keep Putin on a pedestal, what reason does he have to become part of the international community.
      Putin “saved Obama’s face” after he enabled the gassing in the first place while the rest of the world yawned. It was only the POTUS who spoke out. And Congress said “NO”

      • HonestDebate1

        I am not putting him on a pedestal, Obama is.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          “Tell Vlad I’ll have more flexibility after the election”

      • hennorama

        anamaria23 — [Debates?NotHe] has something of a Putin fetish, and has been known to post semi-nude images of him in this very forum, so perhaps that plays into his PPP (Putin Pedestal Putting).

        • HonestDebate1

          Yea that’s it, I’m hot for Putin. As Romney said, Russia is our number one geo-political threat. Yuk it up all you want, this s serious business and Obama isn’t up to the task.

  • hennorama

    One reason to watch the show Fareed Zakaria GPS is that he and his guests often discuss things that garner little attention in most US media.

    Today’s example: the five BRICS nations (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa) held a summit this week, and they agrred to form a development bank, and a currency exchange reserve, as alternatives to the World Bank and the IMF, which are run by the US and Europe.

    From bloomberg.com:

    Leaders of the five BRICS nations agreed on the structure of a $50 billion development bank by granting China its headquarters and India its first rotating presidency. Brazil, Russia and South Africa were given posts or units in the new bank.

    The leaders also formalized the creation of a $100 billion currency exchange reserve, which member states can tap in case of balance of payment crises, according to a statement issued at a summit in Fortaleza, Brazil.

    Both initiatives, which require legislative approval, are designed to provide an alternative to financing from the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank, where BRICS countries have been seeking more say. The measures coincide with a slowing of economic growth in the five countries to about 5.4 percent this year from 10.7 percent in 2007, according to economists surveyed by Bloomberg.

    Another nugget from the show was from guest Stephen Cohen, who pointed out that prior to the downing of the Malaysian airliner, the Ukrainian military had been bombing (and shelling) cities in eastern Ukraine that are controlled by pro-Russian separatists, prompting the separatists to try to shoot down aircraft flying in the area.

    Global Public Square (GPS), indeed.

    Source:
    http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-16/brics-to-form-50-billion-lender-in-challenge-to-world-bank-imf.html

    • tbphkm33

      LOL – I tend to only listen to and read foreign press, so I assumed this was covered by the U.S. media.

    • brettearle

      [1] Have there been any analyses that point to a threat to the US dollar and currency exchange–as the result of this new consortium?

      [2] Can we therefore assume–as the result of recent reports pointing to military action by Ukraine upon territories, occupied by pro-Russian insurgents–that you are suggesting that it looks, more and more, like this surface-to-air strike was mistaken identity for a Ukrainian supply transport or military plane?

      Otherwise, to me–and, i believe, to many others– knocking down a commercial jet made no sense.

      • hennorama

        brettearle — TYFYR.

        1. No doubt there have been analyses in the financial press, but I haven’t read any. My take is that the currency reserve is largely symbolic. The $100 Billion total value is less than 2 percent of the estimated daily turnover of more than $5 Trillion in worldwide foreign currency exchange markets. Of course, this does come on the heels of the recent Russia-China energy deal that was notable in that it does not use the USD as the exchange currency.

        The BRICS just want to be taken more seriously in international institutions, so they are doing something that says “Hey! We’re serious about wanting more influence” and are actually putting some money where their mouths are.

        2. Yes, I think the airliner shootdown was a case of mistaken identity, by poorly trained operators of a sophisticated missile system. There has also been reporting that the airliner was rerouted north due to a storm, to a flightpath that it hadn’t taken in some time.

        Pointing out the Ukrainian military action was to add perspective. This is an active war, with heavy weapons being used. The separatists don’t have airpower, so they are using anti-aircraft weapons. The flight being way above 10,000 ft. rules out simpler shoulder-fired missiles, pointing to the high likelihood of a Russian-supplied missile system. This shootdown came after the downing of a Ukrainian military plane flying above 20,000 ft., which effectively announced the presence of Russian SAMs.

  • nj_v2

    Most recent addition to my “Creeping fascism” file (though i may at some point need to change the name to “Galloping fascism.”) Someday, i’ll post a wider sampling.

    Too many jingoistic types want to wave flags and delude themselves over the imaged superiority of the U.S.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3ZOu__nVHg

    NYPD Kills Man For Selling Untaxed Cigarettes

    “A Staten Island man died Thursday after police placed him in a chokehold as they attempted to arrest him for selling untaxed cigarettes.

    According to authorities, Eric Garner, 43, went into cardiac arrest and died at Richmond University Medical Center following the arrest that was filmed by several witnesses, the New York Daily News reported.

    In the video, Garner can be seen telling police that he had not been selling cigarettes, repeatedly saying, ” I didn’t sell anything,” before insisting, “I’m minding my own business, please leave me alone.”

    After a standoff, five officers tackled the 400-pound Garner — with one placing him in a chokehold — and wrestled him to the ground as they attempted to put handcuffs on him.

    As Garner lay on the ground, with one officer pushing his head into the pavement, he can be heard saying, “I can’t breath. I can’t breath,” over and over.”

    • Arkuy The Great

      That does give fodder to the idea of “the power to tax is the power to destroy.”

      • nj_v2

        Cops have the power to tax?

        • Arkuy The Great

          Governments have the power to tax. Cops, as agents of the government, have the power to make sure laws are enforced, including tax collection. If you fail to file your 1040 accurately and ignore summonses from the IRS you can expect a knock from your friendly neighborhood police SWAT team at 4 AM.

          Yes, what happened here was excessive. Unfortunately, law enforcement agencies in general have the reputation of using a battering ram to get through an open door. Case in point.

    • jefe68

      All of this for a guy who was selling cigarettes at 50 cents a pop on a street corner. Something is seriously wrong with this story. Lets be clear, he broke a law, but come one, it’s not as if this man was dealing crack. The police action in this case is clearly one of over zealousness and one wonders if this was about arrest quotas and pressure from the top brass to make them.

      http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/22/justice/new-york-stop-and-frisk-trial/

      http://www.salon.com/2013/03/21/second_cop_confirms_nypd_arrest_quotas/

      http://www.alternet.org/story/152727/former_detective%3A_nypd_planted_drugs_on_people_to_meet_drug_arrest_quotas

      • brettearle

        As you likely know, with some Cops, if you give them even a mild bit of lip–even if it’s only raising your own voice with a mild impatience–that can be sick grounds for violent `retaliation’, as the result of perceived insubordination.

        • jefe68

          This is indeed a sad story.

    • HonestDebate1

      You should start supporting those advocating smaller government and more freedom instead of radicals who want to mandate your insurance and infringe on your religious liberties.

      • nj_v2

        You have me confused for someone who thinks your opinion is worth more than a can of warm spit.

      • jefe68

        The hogwash king pontificates more mindless memes.

      • ExcellentNews

        Hey HonestDebate1, did you know that man walked with dinosaurs !?!? It’s true, I saw it on The Flintstones. I can’t believe the liberals are trying to keep the nation from learning this TRUTH.

        • HonestDebate1

          They aren’t as wholesome as they appear. Barney’s a crackhead and Wilma got to Bedrock on her back. I don’t trust them.

  • pete18

    The Israel-Arab conflict – on one foot

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152299543033717

  • nj_v2

    It doesn’t matter how many times it’s been proven to fail, but the Rethuglicon, all-we-need-to-do-is-lower-taxes-and-everything-will-be-fine meme seems to live on, like an insecticide-resistant cockroach.

    Kansas Recon gov. Brownback supported tax cuts which were going to create an economy that would be a model and example for the country.

    Well, that’s working out real well…

    http://www.kansas.com/2012/05/02/2319282/kansas-tax-cut-plan-could-cause.html

    Kansas tax-cut plan could cause $712 million deficit by 2018, researchers now say

    TOPEKA — A miscalculation of the projected impact of Republicans sweeping tax cut plan has dramatically increased the potential deficit the plan would create for Kansas.

    New numbers show a deficit of $712 million once nonwage income taxes for businesses are eliminated, individual income rates are dropped and a variety of other adjustments go into effect, according to new projections by the Department of Legislative Research.…

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/14/opinion/kansas-ruinous-tax-cuts.html?_r=0

    Kansas’ Ruinous Tax Cuts

    There was a windstorm of hasty excuses in recent weeks after Kansas reported that it took in $338 million less than expected in the 2014 fiscal year and would have to dip heavily into a reserve fund. Spending wasn’t cut enough, said conservatives. Too many rich people sold off stock in the previous year, state officials said. It’s the price of creating jobs, said Gov. Sam Brownback.

    None of those reasons were correct. There was only one reason for the state’s plummeting revenues, and that was the spectacularly ill-advised income tax cuts that Mr. Brownback and his fellow Republicans engineered in 2012 and 2013. The cuts, which largely benefited the wealthy, cost the state 8 percent of the revenue it needs for schools and other government services. As the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities noted, that’s about the same as the effect of a midsize recession. Moody’s cut the state’s debt rating in April for the first time in at least 13 years, citing the cuts and a lack of confidence in the state’s fiscal management.…

    • hennorama

      nj_v2 — on a related note, as reported by the Kansas City Star:

      100 Kansas GOP endorse Democrat for governor

      Democratic challenger Paul Davis sought Tuesday to give his campaign for Kansas governor a bipartisan boost by announcing endorsements from more than 100 moderate Republicans who’ve split with conservative GOP Gov. Sam Brownback over education and tax policy.

      The disaffected Republicans include outgoing Insurance Commissioner Sandy Praeger, three former Kansas Senate presidents and three former Kansas House speakers. More than half are former legislators, and the list includes former U.S. Rep. Jan Meyers, who represented the Kansas City-area 3rd District from 1985 to 1997.

      They announced that they formed Republicans for Kansas Values because of their concerns about the aggressive personal income tax cuts enacted at Brownback’s urging. They called the reductions a reckless fiscal experiment and suggested Brownback’s administration has been hostile to public education.

      Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/news/state/kansas/article731973.html#storylink=cpy

  • ExcellentNews

    I wonder whether the Republican support for Putin in the wake of the shooting of MH17 is based on the same logical and spiritual grounds as their “LEGITIMATE RAPE” discussions….

    • hennorama

      ExcellentNews — I dunno about that, but there is no shortage of conservatives/Republicans/TEA Shindiggers who use the intentionally inflammatory charge that “children are being raped” as both a rhetorical and fundraising tool.

    • HonestDebate1

      Who the hell is supporting Putin?! And “legitimate rape” is now a Republican platform?! That’s lame.

  • HonestDebate1

    So now we learn yet more IRS hard drives have crashed. That’s convenient. They say it’s less than 20 hard drives. Terrific. Are they really going to get away with this? Sandy Berger got caught smuggling documents out of the national archives and got off scott free. There is no telling what he destroyed. This is awful.

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After a summer of deadly clashes between Gaza and Israel, we talk to Jews on the left and right about the future of liberal Zionism. Some say it’s over.

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