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The Illicit World Of 'Dark Wallet'

Using bitcoins to buy drugs, guns, you name it. We’ll look at Dark Wallet, the new software that will protect your identity.

With guest host Jessica Yellin.

In this April 7, 2014 file photo, a man arrives for the Inside Bitcoins conference and trade show in New York. The February 2014 arrests of Pascal Reid and Michell Espinoza marked the first time any state has brought money laundering charges involving bitcoins, according to Miami-Dade State Attorney Katherine Fernandez Rundle. And it’s likely to be a closely-watched test of whether criminal law can adapt to new digital forms of payment. (AP)

In this April 7, 2014 file photo, a man arrives for the Inside Bitcoins conference and trade show in New York. The February 2014 arrests of Pascal Reid and Michell Espinoza marked the first time any state has brought money laundering charges involving bitcoins, according to Miami-Dade State Attorney Katherine Fernandez Rundle. And it’s likely to be a closely-watched test of whether criminal law can adapt to new digital forms of payment. (AP)

Your keys. Your privacy. Your sovereignty. That’s the slogan for Dark Wallet. It’s a brand  new anti-government software designed to build an online economy, beyond the government’s reach. The software is free. Download it and you can make transactions with digital money — called bitcoins — and they’re all but untraceable. The upside: more privacy from snooping eyes. The downside: secrecy to buy deadly trades of illegal guns and terror funds.  This hour, On Point: Dark Wallet and  the new unregulated world of digital money.

Guests

Andy Greenberg, technology reporter for WIRED Magazine. Author of “This Machine Kills Secrets: How Wikileakers, Cypherpunksa nd Hacktivists Aim To Free the World’s Information.” (@a_greenberg)

Cody Wilson, founder of Defense Distributed. Part of a collective of coders called unSystem which just launched Dark Wallet. (@Radomysisky)

Juan Zarate, senior adviser at the Transnational Threats Project and Homeland Security and Counterterrorism Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. Former assistant secretary of the U.S. Treasury for terrorist financing and financial crimes. Author of “Treasury’s War: The Unleashing of a New Era of Financial Warfare.” (@JCZarate1)

From The Reading List

WIRED: ‘Dark Wallet’ Is About to Make Bitcoin Money Laundering Easier Than Ever –”On Thursday, a collective of politically radical coders that calls itself unSystem plans to release the first version of Dark Wallet: a bitcoin application designed to protect its users’ identities far more strongly than the partial privacy protections bitcoin offers in its current form. If the program works as promised, it could neuter impending bitcoin regulations that seek to tie individuals’ identities to bitcoin ownership. By encrypting and mixing together its users’ payments, Dark Wallet seeks to enable practically untraceable flows of money online that add new fuel to the Web’s burgeoning black markets.”

The New Yorker: Dark Wallet: A Radical Way To Bitcoin — “Wilson and Taaki’s project, tentatively known as Dark Wallet, is a simple wallet designed to be easier to use for people who aren’t tech-savvy; they hope that in turn accelerates the currency’s rate of adoption around the world. The wallet will be open-source and free to use. Eventually, Wilson and Taaki hope to create a vast stable of Bitcoin-related tools. The goal, for Wilson, is similar to what he tried to do with the Liberator: use technology to remove government intervention from his life, and from the lives of like-minded people.”

The Wall Street Journal: ‘Dark Wallet’ for Managing Bitcoin Arrives This Week – “For all the talk of bitcoin being untraceable, it’s actually pretty easy for cops to figure out who is spending what unless suspects take very technical precautions. Wilson seeks to change that by making it easier for non-techies to have an anonymous currency online. Mr. Wilson wants people to buy whatever they want on the Internet, whether it be drugs, guns or an artistically questionable CD. He’s gained fans in libertarian circles — including PayPal founder Peter Thiel.”

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  • Matt MC

    Sign me up!

  • Shag_Wevera

    Privacy is dead. All these “Dark Wallet” types are mafia like protection.

  • Yar

    Sounds like the currency of the CIA! If you can’t beat them, oh, that too.
    Would make a great crime novel.

  • Steve_in_Vermont

    I’m not worried…NSA will have no problem accessing this.

    • Kathy

      No kidding, if they couldn’t crack it, it would be banned.

    • Mike K

      The faith in authority is strong with this one.

  • Scott B

    Cody touts anarchy as if it’s a good thing. Anarchists think a lack of government is a good thing until it bites them in the a$$, and they require something that only the government provides.

    • Jill122

      That’s so true I’m sitting here laughing. How many times have people railed against “lawyers” until they need one. It goes on and on, fill in the quotes.

      The question for me is how we all became so judgmental and so “right”? Often wrong, never in doubt.

      • Scott B

        I have friends that say they’re anarchist, but have that problem of keeping two contradictory ideas in their head, and not seeing their hypocrisy when they use the government functions they depend on like voting, street, police, not being gouged on prices, et al

        • Alchemical Reaction

          Left Libertarians are NOT anarchists.
          We believe in
          Personal Liberty.
          Binary Economics.
          Ecological Economics.
          Cooperative Corporations.
          Decentralization.
          Common Sense.
          Logic.

          • Floyd Blandston

            You’re not LEFT- you’re criminal. Don’t appropriate a term you don’t engender or adhere too- given power and/or authority you’d be fascists, very clearly fascists.

          • Alchemical Reaction

            LOL! You’re delusions are so epic they are funny.

            “Criminal! Criminal!” LOL. Do you even know what the word “criminal” means?

            It means one who has committed a crime. Since legislation changes over time, what determines criminality also changes. Only the most serious offenses retain the status of “crime”. With new legislation, some activities are legitimized and legalized, others are outlawed.

            You are so far off base, out of your league, misguided, and ignorant…

          • Floyd Blandston

            ….and I bother to reply because yours are not- they are the sort of plausible fictions that attract the culpably dangerous.

          • Alchemical Reaction

            The only real danger is people who believe anything other than the status quo is dangerous. Those who are afraid of change no matter what form it takes.

            You. YOU are dangerous.

    • Mike K

      Lack of bureaucracies with monopoly power on coercive force is not the same as a complete lack of governance.

  • Jacob

    this changes nothing criminals will always morph with new technology. its the government’s job to keep up.

  • Scott B

    By making it untraceable, they only bring down the wrath of governments who can make it very miserable for anyone, including business, that uses bitcoin. At some point, people and business will have to deal with someone, or something, else that only deals in standard currencies, and all manner of things can be done to make it hard and undesirable to do so.

  • BHA_in_Vermont

    I have no interest in a currency that changes value daily relative to “real” currency. Today product X is worth Y bit coin, tomorrow Y – n the day after Y + z. No thanks.

    And the ease of hiding illegal activity through “bit coin laundering” just doesn’t cut it.

    • Scott B

      Without anything backing it, or controls on it, that oven a bitcoin bought yesterday won’t buy the bread it made today when, as history shows time and time again, people try to corner the market; or it outprices itself when people wise us and just can’t, or don’t want to, pay that much, and it goes into freefall.

  • http://www.google.com Big Brother

    If I have only Bitcoins, do I have to pay back my student loans?

  • ThirdWayForward

    A fool and his money are soon parted.

    Recently many people completely lost their bitcoin investments when the numbers were stolen from a bitcoin repository. If they are so traceable, why can’t they track down and prosecute the bitcoin thieves?

    Dark money on a small scale may be a hedge against totalitarian control, but dark money on a large scale is a bad idea. The world is just now digging out from the rubble created by the financial collapse of 2008, during which the entire world financial system was threatened by the possibility of domino defaults in dark derivatives markets.

    It makes no sense to focus on bit coin and ignore the dark market rogue elephants in the room that are still on the rampage.

  • Scott B

    Bitcoin owners already saw billions go POOF! with the crash of just one site. How many of those people want that money back, or even some of it, and FDIC doesn’t cover that. With darkwallet, they have zero recourse. I ca just see those kind of victims showing up at law enforcement agencies and lawyers offices saying, “You’ll have to take my word for it.” Yeah, that’ll fly.

  • Scott B

    Anarchy only works on paper and in the minds of people that don’t know that. Just like communism, and anything Ayn Rand imagined up.

    • Ray in VT

      Everything looks great on paper.

      • Scott B

        Yes, where the author can control both side of the argument, and “forget” how people and business act in real life.

  • Jacob

    stop hating bitcoin because you enjoy the safety of the dollar that your invested in, that you can touch and feel. The dollar only has as much value as you give it. The same goes for bitcoin and any other currency.

  • New_Clear_Waste

    I’ll bet the first 50 Dark Wallet users will be incognito regulators, IRS agents, FBI, Scotland Yard, etc. You try to do dark business, you’ll be doing it with them.

    • New_Clear_Waste

      I love the guy who called in saying he wants Dark Wallet because he doesn’t think he should have to pay his share of taxes. I hope he ends up with all his accounts frozen.

  • Jacob

    what ever happened to guns don’t kill people, people kill people.

  • Jacob

    don’t worry capitalism is perfect until a bank is just too big to fail…

    • Simon

      Then politicians are happy to give tax money to save them

  • Jacob

    try getting banks and ceos on that one

  • DeJay79

    I found this interesting, As I listened to the points Juan Zarate made I switch the subject from bitcoin to untraceable cash. All the opinions/arguments seem to hold true. Then my question becomes should we stop using cash and gold because they are hard to track and “bad people” might do bad things with them?

    add edit:

    I’m sure that Banks (government owned by banks) and major corporations would love for use to only use easily traceable debt and credit card purchases.

  • Shag_Wevera

    The caller who spoke about his desire to not have the government know how much he makes or how he spends his money… Is this just a home for tax cheats and anti-gummint types? Go live off the grid then. Don’t use police, fire, school, roads, utilities, social security, medicare… Damned cheapskate bastards really annoy me.

    • Ray in VT

      How about the legitimately born cheapskates? ;)

    • Alchemical Reaction

      You are really ignorant.

      Granted, the caller MAY have been a cheapskate. But not wanting the government to know how much you make or how you spend your money doesn’t necessarily correlate with being a cheapskate.

      Some people, granted a small but legitimate subgroup of citizens, want to have the RIGHT to DECIDE how much money they want to give the government in the form of taxes. Some years they may give more. Other years they may give less.

      This won’t work though, until left-libertarianism and binary and ecological economics policies are created.

      That said, I believe the caller has a fair point. If given the choice, I don’t want the government knowing how much money I make or how I spend it, either.

      This doesn’t necessarily mean I am opposed to tax.
      A national sales tax with a slightly higher rate for imports really does make sense.

      The problem becomes that it ALSO makes sense for the wealthy to pay a little bit more. How do you achieve that goal without knowing how much someone makes?

      Therein is the quandary. I believe the simplest way to achieve this is a flat income tax where everyone pays the same, for example, 8%. And a national sales tax.
      The wealthy can CHOOSE to give more than 8%, or not.

      • Shag_Wevera

        You wrote a lot, and I didn’t read a word of it after you began by insulting me.

        • Alchemical Reaction

          Yeah, but I got 7 upvotes. You got 2.

          • Steve__T

            Voting for your self 6 times doesn’t count.

        • Alchemical Reaction

          What hypocrisy. You first insult me, then when I decimate you, you get your feelings hurt.

    • buddhaclown

      Why are people like you so anxious to live in North Korea?

  • Civility

    When asked about how society would fund schools, roads, etc, the guest completely dodged the question and then was quite condescending to the next caller, simply dismissing her along with all the other “liberal NPR listeners who say “Too big to fail.”” Ideologies like anarchy are completely impractical and unrealistic. Politics/laws are a necessary evil to protect us all from each other. Corruption will always be with us no matter the framework.

    • Mike K

      You sound like my dad’s concern trolling: “But who will build the roads?”

      Presumably, highway engineers will design the roads and crews will build them. Teachers will continue to teach the children. We’re working on non-coercive ways to raise funds for this. I don’t see why these groups need a sister organization with guns who will kick down your door if you refuse to fund their projects.

      Just because we haven’t worked out every detail of replacing the state does not mean you can dismiss an ideology of decentralization.

      • Alchemical Reaction

        The only problem I have with decentralization is – in order for it to work, the multi-nationals would also need to be decentralized.

        Who will keep the big corporations from doing whatever they want? Bullying? Granted, not much keeps them from it now either, certainly not the government, which is really a kind of negotiating table between the individual states and anyone with enough money to sway washington.

        My point still stands, however. Large corporations are every bit as guilty of psychopathic behavior as is the government.

        And the government is the only entity capable of reigning in their power. Granted, HUGE reforms need to be made to government, in the direction of left-libertarianism, binary and ecological economics.

        But just because we haven’t worked out every detail doesn’t mean you can dismiss the ideology of common sense and logic.

        • Mike K

          And the government is the only entity capable of propping up their power.

          ^ Fixed that for you. Government is entirely dependent on large multi-nationals. It is the force that empowers them, not the force that diminishes them. Regulatory capture is alive and well.

          • Guest

            Do we want to live in a world where anyone can purchase anything at any time, regardless of ethical considerations?

          • Mike K

            I certainly don’t. I don’t purchase meat because I believe it’s the product of a hideously oppressive system (Factory farming and/or domestication depending on how vegan I feel on a given day). Yet factory farms have government sanction, so the police will put me in a cage if I try too hard to stop these operations. In this way, my ethical considerations can be safely ignored by the Dominant Culture.

            In my hypothetical anarchist utopia, if I found (for example) that the american south had seceded and was re-instituting slavery against all protests, I would be the first engineer raising a volunteer force to construct the drones to put a stop to it. I’d post on our local militia’s subreddit (or whatever discussion platform) and ask them to reach out to their networks to raise funding and other support. At this point, the slavers would see the success of our crowdfunding campaign to blow up their critical infrastructure, realize that it wasn’t worth it to them to mount a counter-campaign, and give up on their oppressive ways.

            At least, that’s how I imagine the distributed use of force might work in the networked age of the 21st century. My example assumes that the vast majority of humanity is against slavery and would contribute to a campaign to abolish it by force where it flourished. It also assumes that our current ecological, economic, and political crises do not lead us to a new dark age where high technology is no longer widely available.

          • Jim Kelly

            Yes, absolutely.

      • Bill O’Brien

        i can’t say its impossible that a society with roads and goods teachers could exist without any coercive force — i just don’t see how it would work….short of altering the human gene pool

        plato said that if you want a society that has confections, couches and courtesans or something like that you will need a coercive force (the guard dogs). bruce springsteen said as soon as you’ve got something they send someone to try and take it away.

        ….

        • Mike K

          > “a society with roads and goods teachers could exist without any coercive force –I just don’t see how it would work….short of altering the human gene pool”

          Two things on this:

          1. A key thing about the networked age we have entered is that “How it would work” is not a thing to be decided ahead of time and enforced. It is a thing that will evolve rapidly through collaboration and sharing of information and best practices. The main thing that is needed is for spaces to open up where real innovation is allowed, acknowledged, and encouraged.

          For a concrete example of this, check out how Occupy Sandy stepped up when FEMA and other government orgs stumbled. The first pic is Occupiers giving aid to volunteers after FEMA abandoned them: http://www.portlandoccupier.org/2012/11/15/occupysandy-disaster-relief-and-dual-power/

          2. Appeals to human nature are dangerous. They make assumptions about what motivates people. These assumptions are always based on what we see in current and historical systems (empires, monarchies, and states). The human gene pool isn’t the problem (*cough*eugenics*cough*) – the problem is a culture that stifles the better nature of humans and puts them in a situation of scarcity and conflict. I WANT to write code. The best teachers WANT to teach. I won’t stop coding just because the threat of force or financial ruin is removed.

          • Bill O’Brien

            what i meant when i said that the maybe the gene pool would have to be altered to allow for a society with good teachers and roads to exist without a coercive force….is that there will always be someone who would kick in your door and take your stuff, or worse, if there is nothing to deter him. how is that done without coercive force?

            and of course there seems to be a need for a legal system that acts form a power of coercive force that enforces contracts and the like.

          • Mike K

            Probably you’re right about people willing to take from others. What might deter him is that he will be met with force at my house (and hopefully in my neighborhood at large). In a high-tech future, my door might even taze him after the first kick if my house’s cameras don’t recognize his face. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolaser)

            > a legal system that … enforces contracts and the like

            The legacy method of this involves paper and police. Believe it or not, the blockchain, the same public ledger technology that allows consensus within bitcoin, is general enough to allow for arbitrary contracts as well. If someone breaks a contract with me, it will impact their reputation and people will be less likely to do business with that account again (think e-bay). Do you transact with someone with 99.9% positive feedback, or do you take a chance on a new account or one with bad feedback? Trust is now possible without knowledge of real identity.

      • Bill O’Brien

        …i do think that self-styled anarchists (and i don’t mean that in a pejorative sense) like cody wilson, are doing good in the world….they are fighting against institutions that ought to be fought against…..

        and like hobbs said, if you’re holding a weak hand (boy howdy for me), you will prefer a new shuffle..

    • Alchemical Reaction

      No amount of evil is necessary.

    • Michael McCuin

      That is not what I heard. He simply stated that there are other ways of governance, probably better ways, if we were to take on some of the care and maintenance of our own society. We’ve all been drinking the collective Kool Aid, happily taken care of by a government that is corrupted and becoming steadily fascist. Could my community build a health center or make a road? absolutely. Oh, and the “evil” they protect us from? They helped to create it to keep the funding rolling in. Your taxes and your fear.

    • Jim Kelly

      It is unfair to expect Mr. Wilson to be able to anticipate exactly how this or that would happen. He is not saying he has this great idea for society, and how it should be run. He is saying that working together, the 7 billion people on this planet WILL figure out a way to solve difficult problems. There is really no way to know what those solutions will look like. Technology is changing fast and enabling new possibilities. Things we cannot even fathom today, but will be second nature in a few years.

  • Civility

    Well said!

  • Scott B

    Cody attributes liberals, progressives, and Democrats to the bank bailouts, when it was a Rebuplican, conservative agenda to deregulate the banking industry (and, yes, Clinton okayed it). It was those Republican, conservative, libertarians under Dubya that bailed out the banks with ZERO repayment plans, and no demands for change to the status quo, and that it was people like Alan Greenspan, a Reagan appointee, that refused to see the warnings, and ignored history, such as the Stockmarket Crash of 1929.

    Cody’s another prime example of the Left’s propensity for denying fact, history, and experience (science gets to stay off the list k this time), and trying to flip the script with blame.

    • Mike K

      Elect Democrats to get to Utopia. Got it.

      • Scott B

        Nope. I wasn’t saying that at all. The Dems have their fair share of issues.

        The point is that the groups on the Right (as Norm Ornstein (R) of the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank said): “Deny fact, science, history, and experience.”

        Their reverence of all things Regan, for a prime example. They ignore that Reagan: Tripled the debt, raised taxes over a dozen times, aided in the illegal sale of weapons (Iran-Contra), wanted to eradicate all nuclear weapons, and thought that a Wall St millionaire shouldn’t be paying a lower tax rate than the guy that drives a bus for living (“That’s crazy”).

        • Mike K

          Participate in the process to get to Utopia?

          Elect Democrats because all we can hope for is the lesser of two evils in charge of an increasingly obsolete system of governance?

          Whatever you do, don’t let the kids try anything fundamentally new?

          • Scott B

            But their ideas aren’t new. They’ve been done before and failed. Doing them yet again would be living the definition of insanity: Doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result.

          • Mike K

            Digital distributed governance and economics using public ledger blockchains has been tried before?

            Collaborative open source development of the means of production has been tried before?

            You must not be familiar with the future we’re currently living in. If digital currency is too abstract, I recommend starting here, with micro-industry: http://opensourceecology.org/

          • Alchemical Reaction

            Now you’ve got my attention.

          • Floyd Blandston

            All the things you describe are simply ‘process improvements’ of tried and/or existing structures. Your REAL complaint is with your own lack of authority over those structures- the cry of the fascist.

          • Alchemical Reaction

            Oh, now I understand. You have a mental aberration.

          • Alchemical Reaction

            Bitcoin was completely new when it was created. No one had ever created anything like it before.

          • Floyd Blandston

            Naive and remarkably shallow perspective.

          • Alchemical Reaction

            Be honest, are you developmentally disabled? I’m only asking because I’m looking for a reason your ignorance is not your fault, so I can pity you instead of seeing you as vermin.

          • Floyd Blandston

            Not worth the keystrokes…

          • Alchemical Reaction

            It seems to have been worth 27 keystrokes.

          • Jim Kelly

            I dunno, the concept of digital currency was not new. Bitcoin is a fairly good implementation of that, and seems to have gained wide adoption, but digital currency is not a new idea.

          • Alchemical Reaction

            It was the first digital currency to gain widespread acceptance and use.

    • Alchemical Reaction

      Scott, I’ve read most of your posts on here. I disagree with most of them but that doesn’t matter. Your comments are irrelevant because the future will be whatever it will be.

      Many people lost money on Mt. Gox but just as many people made millions off of bitcoin, and buy their lattes with bitcoin every day. Don’t try to turn this into a partisan debate,

      Both the democrats and the republicans need an enema.
      You are incredibly ignorant. Go back to school.

    • buddhaclown

      I am not sure Cody was attributing liberals with the bank bailouts. Anarchists don’t fall into any clear political denomination, and if anything they are most associated with Occupy Wall Street which was broadly seen as a liberal movement. I think people like Cody are at odds principally with the mainstream consciousness that believes in hierarchical power. While many, if not most mainstream democrats believe in big government, most mainstream republicans believe in big corporate and banking power.

  • Luke Hansen

    The ignorance and lack of curiosity on this thread is nauseating.

    • Floyd Blandston

      …as are the Gnomic, unregisterable responses.

  • Mike K

    Quoting the a 1500′s philosopher in a discussion about 21st century governance. Making the case for authority by appealing to a long-dead authority. The dystopian “state of nature” Hobbes describes is no less speculative than an anarchist utopia.

    I’m 30, and it looks to me like the “grownups” currently in charge are leading us off a cliff. The 20th century was the apex of the nation state, complete with industrial ecocide and unprecedented global conflict. I’m ready to try something else.

    • Floyd Blandston

      A very immature 30 I would say. Let us know how the world looks once you’re not eating Mom and Dad’s food and sleeping in your little kid bedroom.
      (Just a guess- did I nail it? :D )

      • Mike K

        As a software engineer I make plenty of money. I believe more than either of my parents at this point. I’m considering renting out my old bed room as an office for the corporation I made last year. That said, I don’t think earning potential is a good way to measure the value of a person’s ideas.

        I’d also rather you didn’t use ageism to dismiss my entire generation. It’s pretty typical and disappointing when we’re trying to step up to solve the generational problems we’re inheriting.

        Don’t worry – we’re really not fascists. We don’t want to tell you what to do. We just want transparency and accountability for the decision-making classes. We don’t want the ruling classes consolidating any more power until we get those things.

        • Floyd Blandston

          But you already ARE (or are attempting to..) tell people, indeed, whole societies, exactly what to do. Your blindness to yourself makes you untrustworthy, no matter how earnest and heartfelt you may see your beliefs as being. Stymied, you make threats as individuals, in small groups, you seek to circumvent existing, accepted authorities- can you see the threat you pose? Even ‘anarcho-syndicalist communes’ derive their authority from the masses- NOT from a cadre.

          • Mike K

            For those who missed the Monty Python reference amid the projection of unfounded personal fears: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOOTKA0aGI0

          • Floyd Blandston

            For anyone who missed the obvious attempt to flush out shallowly held understandings; “Congratulations, you have the politico-historical knowledge to cite a comedic gloss- a test. What do you REALLY know; Marx? Proudhon? Any of the 19th century attempts at Utopianism? Study why they failed, fit your goals and beliefs into a coherent framework, then put them forth as a plausible alternative, syncretic addition, or freestanding choice. Advocate, yes. Motivate, absolutely; but sedition and criminal contempt will only lead to failure.”

            That’s not the projection of unfounded fears, that’s experience.

        • Floyd Blandston

          The problems you are inheriting are not ‘generational’, they are ‘species endemic’- inherent to the human condition. They cannot be simply ‘overthrown’, even by systems as ludicrous as Pol Pot, only incrementally improved.

  • MarkO

    If we expect transparency in government and big business, Hidden transactions through Bitcoin is only going to make the shady shadier. Dark wallet fits it’s name. It is part of the Dark side.

    • Simon

      “we expect transparency in government and big business”

      “expect” is the good word, because we don’t have it, and never will. Do you have already forgotten Snowden ? Aka government agency going rogue, lying to congress, and when a whistleblower reveals the truth the response is threatening his life …

      Transparency doesn’t happen thanks of the powerful, we have to empower ourselves.

  • Simon

    Sad old man who is too afraid to consider a freer world…
    Place him in nazi Germany, in Stalin’s USSR, or under the Pharaoh and he would have the same discourse : “we don’t need more freedom, it would be the chaos…”.
    A better world is possible, only people like him are preventing it.

    • Floyd Blandston

      Fascist- you are a fascist.

      • Simon

        Wanting freedom for people is the opposite of fascism. Wanting a central entity to control everything is fascism.

        • Floyd Blandston

          The process by which you seek to achieve that freedom (for others, who did not request it, I might add) is only achievable via fascistic means. If it was democratic, you would pursue it thusly.

          • Simon

            How proposing a market place online could be fascist ? Forcing people to use it would be, but proposing …

          • Floyd Blandston

            …the difference between sedition and criminality. I can call for a parallel currency and the ‘freedom of ideas’- if the medium I develop to do so coincidentally or fundamentally becomes a foundation for the undermining of civil state laws and majority interests, it is criminal. To continue it, or continue to press for it against majoritarian interests according to the beliefs of a few is fascism. They go hand-in-hand.

          • Simon

            If the medium you develop actually “undermines” the current establishment, isn’t it a sign that it is good ?
            If it takes traction with people, why would you want to end it by force ?
            For instance, if the Zimbabwe people had the opportunity of another currency (like bitcoin) while their own was collapsing, would you ask the local government to punish by force the usage of the alternative currency ?

          • Floyd Blandston

            Good point, but we’re getting into economic semantics. What ‘people’ want is stable, transparent systems, non-manipulable by specific interests. Non-state instruments will never meet this standard, while the adoption of alternate (i.e.,foreign) state instruments may. Bitcoin became a criminal subterfuge precisely because such a state is endemic to its creation.

          • Simon

            Isn’t government a specific interest, manipulable by other specific interests ?

          • Floyd Blandston

            In a representative democracy, non-specific except in pursuing majority interests. The manipulability by specific interests is your right and proper enemy, but the homeopathic ‘cure’ of un-accountable parallel structures is a murrain. Think ‘Narco-state’, or southern Italy. (…bit of a joke, there)

          • Jim Kelly

            “What ‘people’ want is stable, transparent systems, non-manipulable by specific interests.”

            Instead of insisting you know what people want, why not let them choose what they want? If some people want a government backed currency, no one is stopping them from using that. The only people I see trying to force their will on others are the ones saying bitcoin is criminal and should be shut down. If you do not like bitcoin, then don’t use it. If enough people agree with you, it will not take off as a currency. If enough people think it is a good idea and it does take off, then your argument is sort of irrelevant.

            Also, bitcoin is a stable transparent system that is not able to be manipulated by specific interests…

  • Alchemical Reaction

    Do we want to live in a world where anyone can purchase anything at any time, regardless of ethical considerations?

    And if not, who decides who gets to purchase what, when, and which code of ethics is applicable, to whom, when, where, and why?

    Perhaps this can help

    • Jim Kelly

      “Do we want to live in a world where anyone can purchase or sell anything at any time, regardless of ethical considerations?”

      Yes, I do, but that does not matter. Like it or not, this is here.

      • Alchemical Reaction

        Which also means the ability to hack Dark Wallet is also “here”, if one either (A) has the skills or (B) can PAY.

  • Guest

    “Co-mingling your assets”… Nice play…

  • Alchemical Reaction

    If the world was egalitarian, Bitcoin wouldn’t HAVE TO exist.

  • Floyd Blandston

    People like Cody Wilson are the reason governments are formed- to protect us from them. He calls himself an ‘anarchist’- I know anarchism- but he is nothing but a criminal, looking for an opportunity to ply his trade. Every border war bandit flies a banner, appealing to people’s innocent belief in a just cause, while searching every avenue for self-aggrandizement and gain. They are ‘The Lord’s Resistance Army’, they are ‘Boko Haram’, they are the ‘Cheney wing of the GOP’, preying on the innocent and the stupid. There are no morals here beyond (at best) the self delusional. Lock them up.

    • Alchemical Reaction

      Unless you are completely insane and he is a visionary pioneer… That is a very real possibility.

      • Floyd Blandston

        Visionary pioneer is an epitaph. Applied to a living, unproven, flawed human being by someone like yourself, it is either idiocy or naivety.

        • Alchemical Reaction

          Considering you don’t even know how to spell naiveté, it’s painfully obvious how pathetic you are.

          You really HAVE NO IDEA what you are talking about. You have made so many assumptions in your statements, it’s nauseating.

          I’m going to encourage you to engage in dangerous, high risk behaviors without adequate training, preparation, or equipment, and discourage you from breeding…

          • Floyd Blandston

            Brilliant reply…

          • Alchemical Reaction

            Your hypocrisy is amusing.

    • Mike K

      “Lock them up [because of their ideology].” cries the man who accuses others of being fascists.

      • Floyd Blandston

        Not because of their ideology, but their acts. Not simple sedition, but criminality.

    • buddhaclown

      I wish the government would protect us from people like you.

  • emma852

    my Aunty Sienna recently got a year old
    Jaguar only from working off a home computer… Recommended Reading C­a­s­h­D­u­t­i­e­s­.­ℂ­o­m

  • Floyd Blandston

    Good, go with that! An important issue which calls for address.

  • buddhaclown

    I agree . . . but in all fairness, the show was much better than I expected from the opening FUD, and Mr. Wilson was very impressive. Thanks to On Point for doing such a great job with this one.

  • cuvtixo

    You may not be able to do free work alone, but programming can be done by very many people, around the world across the internet. You should research Open Source software and Linux. Linux is free but used by many Fortune 500 companies and accepted to be a secure system. I stopped reading your post which is incredibly long-winded for someone scoffing the idea. If it’s so useless, why the heck are you spending so much time and effort writing about it- and you’re offering you’re comments for free here- I thought you were too busy to do things for free!

  • cuvtixo

    the price of Bitcoin fluctuates too much to be used as a tax haven. Bitcoin is very much for disposable income only.

  • coinosphere

    LOL! If you truly think the 1% is going to move it’s trillions of dollars worth of value into bitcoin, which would necessarily raise the price of each bitcoin up to well over a million dollars each; You would probably own quite a few yourself and be hoping they hurry up and do so.

ONPOINT
TODAY
Jul 29, 2014
The U.S. Senate is seen on Capitol Hill in Washington, Wednesday, July 16, 2014. (AP)

The “Do-Nothing” Congress just days before August recess. We’ll look at the causes and costs to the country of D.C. paralysis.

Jul 29, 2014
This April 28, 2010 file photo, shows the Colstrip Steam Electric Station, a coal-fired power plant in Colstrip, Mont. Colstrip figures to be a target in recently released draft rules from the Environmental Protection Agency that call for reducing Montana emissions 21 percent from recent levels by 2030. (AP)

A new sci-fi history looks back on climate change from the year 2393.

RECENT
SHOWS
Jul 28, 2014
U.S. Secretary of War Newton D. Baker watches as wounded American soldiers arrive at an American hospital near the front during World War I. (AP Photo)

Marking the one hundredth anniversary of the start of World War One. We’ll look at lessons learned and our uneasy peace right now.

 
Jul 28, 2014
This June 4, 2014 photo shows a Walgreens retail store in Boston. Walgreen Co. _ which bills itself as “America’s premier pharmacy” _ is among many companies considering combining operations with foreign businesses to trim their tax bills. (AP)

American companies bailing out on America. They call it inversion. Is it desertion?

On Point Blog
On Point Blog
This 15-Year-Old Caller Is Really Disappointed With Congress
Tuesday, Jul 29, 2014

In which a 15-year-old caller from Nashville expertly and elegantly analyzes our bickering, mostly ineffective 113th Congress.

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Our Week In The Web: July 25, 2014
Friday, Jul 25, 2014

Why the key to web victory is often taking a break and looking around, and more pie for your viewing (not eating) pleasure.

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The Art Of The American Pie: Recipes
Friday, Jul 25, 2014

In the odd chance that our pie hour this week made you hungry — how could it not, right? — we asked our piemaking guests for some of their favorite pie recipes. Enjoy!

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