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Week In The News: Georgia’s Guns, President In Asia, A Big Week At SCOTUS

Guns in Georgia. Obama in Asia. Affirmative Action. And Joe Biden in Ukraine.  Our weekly news roundtable.

President Barack Obama and ASIMO, an acronym for Advanced Step in Innovative MObility, bow to each other during a youth science event at the National Museum of Emerging Science and Innovation, known as the Miraikan, in Tokyo, Thursday, April 24, 2014. (AP)

President Barack Obama and ASIMO, an acronym for Advanced Step in Innovative MObility, bow to each other during a youth science event at the National Museum of Emerging Science and Innovation, known as the Miraikan, in Tokyo, Thursday, April 24, 2014. (AP)

Guns almost anywhere in Georgia as of this week.  Bars, airports, even school and church if you get the nod.  New law signed, and it’s all smiles at the NRA.  In Ukraine, Russian troops revving at the border.  Touch and go.  In the Middle East, John Kerry’s peace talks flame out.  In Asia, President Obama stands by Japan on disputed islands, but no trade deal there.  The Supreme Court upholds state bans on affirmative action, to Justice Sotomoyor’s dismay.  The FCC seems to slide away from “net neutrality.”  This hour On Point:  Our weekly news roundtable.

– Tom Ashbrook

Guests

Indira Lakshmanan, senior correspondent covering foreign policy for Bloomberg News. (@Indira_L)

Robert Barnes, Supreme Court correspondent for the Washington Post. (@scotusreporter)

Jack Beatty, On Point news analyst.

From Tom’s Reading List

Washington Post: Supreme Court upholds Michigan’s ban on racial preferences in university admissions — “The decision further illustrates the court’s skepticism about race-conscious government programs. In effect, the ruling says that universities may still employ the limited consideration of race authorized in previous Supreme Court rulings. But it also said that voters and legislators also have the right to curtail such plans. That it took five separate opinions totaling 102 pages written over six months to reach that result is a sign of how divided the court remains on the issue.”

Atlanta Journal-Constitution: Nathan Deal signs broad gun rights expansion — “Critics have dubbed it the ‘guns everywhere’ bill for its broad scope, and opponents including former Rep. Gabby Giffords have tried to block its passage. Supporters have flooded Deal’s office with pleas to sign the measure, which the National Rifle Association called ‘the most comprehensive pro-gun reform bill in state history.’”

Bloomberg News: Obama Says U.S. Will Defend Japan-Administered Islands – “Standing next to Abe, Obama reiterated that the U.S. views Japan as the sole administrator of the disputed islands, which the president referred to by their Japanese name, Senkaku. China has challenged Japan’s control of the uninhabited islands, called Diaoyu in Chinese, through the positioning of ships and flying of surveillance aircraft.”

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  • SteveTheTeacher

    Much of the US media focused on the Boston marathon a year after the bombings. Bostonians and marathon participants made an overwhelming show of support and spirit. No doubt, OnPoint guests will comment upon the resilience of Boston and the marathon participants.

    Shamefully, as we in Boston were demonstrating our rejection of the Tsarnaev brothers attempt to pursue political aims through killing, the US military took part in a three day killing spree in Yemen. At least 55 human beings were killed. While international media have reported the deaths of 3, to 8, to more innocent bystanders, the little mention that has been made of this incident by the US mainstream media has generally parroted commentary of US or Yemeni government spokespeople.

    I would like to think that Tom Ashbrook, Jack Beatty, and OnPoint guests are the caliber of critical thinkers capable of discussing some of the following questions:

    Why is there no independent investigation into who was actually killed in the Yemeni bombings?

    The Yemeni government has stated that the 50+ people killed were planning attacks against Yemini military targets. Is this an acceptable basis for the US military to engage in killing people?

    Given all our resources, intellectual capacity, human talent, and connections, what does it say about us, as a nation, if the only way we can come up with to mitigate a perceived threat by a handful of “extremists” in a distant land, is to launch a military assault leaving them, and all nearby bystanders, blown to bloody shreds of human confetti?

    Now, almost a year since President Obama declared the global war on terror over, what are the specifics of the new policy of perpetual “targeted efforts to dismantle specific networks of violent extremists that threaten America”?

    Is the lack of oversight and transparency in the US targeted killing programs acceptable?

    Is the use of computer algorithms to designate targets for killing by the US military acceptable?

    The position of the Obama administration is that the President reserves the right to kill all people, including US citizens, who pose an imminent threat to the US. However, according to documents leaked last year, the administration has redefined what constitutes an imminent threat. It appears that an imminent threat to the US includes threats that are not necessarily likely to take place in the near future and may not include specifically developed plans.

    Is this a policy consistent with our values as a nation?

    What are the implications of a policy that grants the President the unquestionable right to decide who lives and who dies?

    • brettearle

      Very well written and edifying.

      I think, however, that you are not fully taking into account that in the 21st century, the United States is involved in covert, asymmetric wars with private, non-nation-state groups.

      That doesn’t mean that the US should be indiscriminate in its objectives–to the point where there is frequent, or even infrequent, collateral damage.

      But you and I do not know what comes across the President’s desk, every morning, regarding Intelligence Reports–in the Middle East, in Central Asia, and around the world.

      9/11 changed a number of things for a long time.

      And the US may have an enemy that is not only patient but is, at times, more prevalent than we might like to think.

      • Fredlinskip

        There was a real short time there where during troop buildup before Iraq occupation that I , with the inability to “know what comes across the President’s desk, every morning, regarding Intelligence Reports” thought, “well maybe W DOES have credible info concerning Sadaam and WMD’s!”

        But then it became quickly evident that it was all a charade for the benefit of a few of W’s corporate buddies at the vast expense of the rest of the nation.

        • harverdphd

          Charade by whom?

          • Fredlinskip

            If you source all the misinformation that the American people were subjected to at the time, it becomes immediately apparent.
            “Follow the $” as the shadowy informant prodded the reporters that broke open the Watergate scandal used to say.
            Look it up yourself- that way you may get beyond your blind nationalism and come to actually learn something.

          • harverdphd

            In other words, you’re afraid to answer my question…got it.

          • Fredlinskip

            In other words you can’t handle the truth and don’t wish to.
            Look it up- it’s not hard to find out who were the leaders of the propaganda campaign of misinformation.
            It’s not difficult to look up who profited the greatest from our War policy.
            It’s not hard to look up who which media sources were the greatest cheerleaders.
            It’s not hard to look up who used 9/11 for political gain.
            Lots of time has passed .
            If you choose blissful ignorance, there’s not much I can do to help inform you.

            It’s a personal choice you have apparently already made.

        • brettearle

          Christie will not necessarily be restrained in his Foreign Policy.

          And, whether we like it or not, he’s our next President.

          • AnneDH

            I assume you’re saying Christie is our next president because of Sanders potentially splitting the Democratic vote? I am from VT and hoping Sanders will stay where he is for that reason.

          • brettearle

            Anne….

            Some pundits (although, admittedly, what’s a Pundit?) believe–and I’m inclined to agree, even though I’m a Democrat–that the country [basically, a Voting Bloc that, as a whole, is center-Right] will want a change of a political party, in the White House….after 8 years.

            And this attitude may have less to do with Misogyny [and all of its milder forms] than you think.

          • AnneDH

            I’m not too keen on Hillary, either, but not because she’s a she. I suspect you’re right, though.

          • brettearle

            And Christie would be the logical choice.

            The Bush name may have too much of a stigma, attached to it, at this point

            And, of course, there would be too many Bushes.

            As far as Presidents are concerned, there was only 1 Kennedy….

          • AnneDH

            I’m tired of voting against rather than voting for a candidate, which I usually end up doing because I’m not happy with either choice.

          • HonestDebate1

            That’s the rub but it is what it is. I like to look at it as voting for the best choice available. Same thing, different perspective.

          • Don_B1

            Any candidate that can get enough votes to win the election is always going to have significant short-comings for each voter. It is the nature of a representative government selected by people with diverse interests.

            But for everyone, it is necessary to decide the most important issues and determine which candidate has the best approach on those issues.

            My choices for the top two issues are:

            1) Climate Change — while President Obama has done a lot in the smaller ways that will have some good-sized impacts in the future (automobile/truck mileage improvement, power-plant CO2 reductions, building standards for efficiency, etc.) they fall short of the carbon tax that would help level the playing field and put the whole world on the track to real CO2 mitigation, which will be the cheapest way to avoid much of the devastation of climate change, some of which is already built in but so much more, that will be much more costly to deal with than it will cost to avoid by cutting CO2 generation from fossil fuels.

            2) Macroeconomics — Republicans talk about being for the middle class, but their policies have basically been in effect for over 12 years (ARRA excepted) with economic growth benefitting mostly the 0.1% and oppressing the bottom 20% and doing next to nothing for the middle. The Republicans still want totally unfettered capitalism, which will let income and wealth inequality continue to grow, and it is at the point where it could really take off. When the wealthy were near reaching similar heights before WWI, the wars and the Great Depression and WWII came along to knock them down. I would not want the world to need that kind of a depression to accomplish their defeat, but the wealthy, in their blind ignorance of real macroeconomics, are actually trying to set up the conditions for exactly that to happen. The equivalent to WWII could be met by the devastation of Climate Change.

            Some necessary reading on macroeconomics:

            First, the relationship between a country’s economy and a household’s finances:

            http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/04/21/the-economy-is-not-like-a-household/?module=BlogPost-Title&version=Blog%20Main&contentCollection=Opinion&action=Click&pgtype=Blogs&region=Body

            and

            http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/does-debt-matter

            But then the current issue, which the above issue is being used to deflect:

            http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2014/may/08/thomas-piketty-new-gilded-age/

            and two discussions of the book with the author and noted economists:

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heOVJM2JZxI

            and

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc-Ixj9OcOw&list=UUs45vMZoT1-uLUwWBqic0oQ

            In addition, I strongly endorse reading Jared Bernstein’s blog, On The Economy, starting with this post on his take on inequality (he has other posts on the subject, also):

            http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/two-things-to-watch-and-one-to-listen-to/

            Good luck and don’t hesitate to ask questions! Take comfort in John Wooden’s statement,“It’s what you learn after you know it all that counts.” [My emphasis.]

          • Don_B1

            Fortunately Gov. Christie has been severely tarnished and the “crazy” radical right will make that clear in the Republican primaries in 2016. But I admit he would have been the leading candidate if his actually taking political “retribution” out on the innocent citizens of New Jersey had not occurred.

          • brettearle

            I think that he is more Teflon than you think.

            And when he knew about it, is still in question.

            [I am not a supporter.]

          • Don_B1

            I totally agree that, today, there is no published information that directly ties Gov. Christie to the scheme to shut down two access lanes to the George Washington Bridge [note the first-letter-abbreviation?].

            But Gov. Christie is between a rock and a hard place: Either he was not closely observing the conduct of his staff and setting a strong moral culture, as he has been reputed to be, or he was a laissez-faire executive, letting his subordinates run wild. And some of his comments are inconsistent with either story as to how he took an interest in what his subordinates did.

          • brettearle

            Thanks for your further comment.

            I take what you say into account.

            However, whether we like it or not, Christie has considerable political charisma.

            And, absent of concrete evidence, I think he will rise above the scandal.

            What we can say is that Christie gave wink-wink, nod-nods to a scorched-earth political policy`and found a way–he had hoped–for plausible deniability.

            The GOP desperately needs a center-Right candidate.

            And, he’s the guy.

            What’s more, whether it’s BS or not, the Public will fall for him coming across as a Straight-Talker.

            Make any sense?

          • HonestDebate1

            Anne, I agree with you but do not share the luxury of being able to claim it’s not because she is a she. My problem is with her record and her policy positions but I will nevertheless be accused of being a sexist just like I am accused of being a racist for opposing President Obama.

            As for Democrats I’d like to see run, I could tolerate Harold Ford Jr., Evan Bayh and a few others but will most likely vote Republican. We’ll see what the field looks like.

          • Don_B1

            Last night’s Charlie Rose Show had one segment (of three) on the new book, HRC: State Secrets and the Rebirth of Hillary Rodham Clinton, by Jonathan Allen and Amie Parnes (of Politico), which might confirm or refute some of your impressions of Ms. Clinton.

          • Don_B1

            Actually, the politics of the country is a lot more confused than those many “pundits” that like to spout off all the time.

            People like to think they are “conservative” because it means they like the status quo, even while they support most of the policies that most would call “liberal,” or “progressive.”

            There are signs, maybe nothing more than false “tea leaves,” indicating a growing revulsion with Republican machinations, from “Moral Mondays” to other signs of protest like the Nebraska farmers taking umbrage with the arrogant way Trans Canada has been taking land for the Keystone XL pipeline.

            Much of what will happen in 2016 may well be foreshadowed this fall. Or if Republicans do achieve their goals this fall, their likely subsequent overreach may reverse their fall win.

          • brettearle

            Don, as always, great to read your work.

            I am going to assume that you could see, from me, a litany of reasons as to why I think the GOP is going to win.

            And if I can find the inclination, maybe I’ll list them.

            I do not believe that the GOP is going to carry on their recent Death Wish legacy.

            The Radical Right will be marginalized to the extent that the moderate Right, Christie (who basically reflects the national Voting Bloc) will win.

            Not by much, but I think he will.

          • Don_B1

            I admit I was unabashedly trying to find the most optimistic viewpoint that I could; I have to have hope because of the real devastation that will occur if Democrats do not win the next few elections.

            There is no way that Democrats will do enough, but they will at least keep much of the worst away.

          • HonestDebate1

            I don’t think Sanders will run but what do I know?

          • nj_v2

            From your posting history, the answer to “what do I know?” is pretty clear.

          • HonestDebate1

            I know, right?

          • Don_B1

            Senator Sanders has basically made that pledge some time ago.

          • HonestDebate1

            Oh please, the election is an eon away.

            Rice/Carson 2016!

          • Don_B1

            LOL !

          • brettearle

            The Caps should be darker [no pun intended] and bigger [no pun intended to Richard Wright].

          • Don_B1

            I should have included:

            Rolling around unrestrainedly!

          • brettearle

            !!

            [not as in Rush supporter]

          • nj_v2

            Rush/Hannity!

          • brettearle

            They’d be a shoo-in.

          • HonestDebate1

            Unfortunately I disagree. Black Conservatives are the scourge of the universe to many. I think Ms. Rice is unmatched in her foreign policy expertise and Dr. Carson is the best qualified to rescue us from Obamacare. But it won’t happen.

          • Ray in VT

            Hahahaha. Carson’s healthcare “plan” is being derided as being pretty useless by quite a few health care policy people.

          • brettearle

            Intriguing, given his credentials.

            I’ll have to have a look.

          • brettearle

            Shoo-in refers to Rush/Hannity–or were you playing wish-fulfillment?

            Feel privileged that you heard from me.

            Maybe you’ve been eating your broccoli.

          • HonestDebate1

            Apologies, I thought you were replying to me. Regarding Rush/Hannity, I’m not much of a Hannity fan and Rush won’t take the pay cut.

            I love broccoli much more than hearing from you which is nothing to write home about.

            Back when Bush 41 was President we wrote a song and made a video. Grandpa Jones was in it. It was a cross between Country and Rap (aka crap). It was silly. It was called “Where’s the Food Y’all”. At the time President Bush was famous for saying he didn’t like broccoli.

            I came up with the line: “I like my shakes, thick, cold and chocality; And if I were the President I’d reinstate broccoli!

            It was my greatest rhyme ever. No point really.

          • Ray in VT

            Has someone actually revived the Know Nothing Party?

          • HonestDebate1

            Nah, I’m not much of a Hannity fan and Rush won’t take the pay cut.

      • SteveTheTeacher

        PAKISTAN

        Noor Aziz | 8 | male
        Abdul Wasit | 17 | male
        Noor Syed | 8 | male
        Wajid Noor | 9 | male
        Syed Wali Shah | 7 | male
        Ayeesha | 3 | female
        Qari Alamzeb | 14| male
        Shoaib | 8 | male
        Hayatullah KhaMohammad | 16 | male
        Tariq Aziz | 16 | male
        Sanaullah Jan | 17 | male
        Maezol Khan | 8 | female
        Nasir Khan | male
        Naeem Khan | male
        Naeemullah | male
        Mohammad Tahir | 16 | male
        Azizul Wahab | 15 | male
        Fazal Wahab | 16 | male
        Ziauddin | 16 | male
        Mohammad Yunus | 16 | male
        Fazal Hakim | 19 | male
        Ilyas | 13 | male
        Sohail | 7 | male
        Asadullah | 9 | male
        khalilullah | 9 | male
        Noor Mohammad | 8 | male
        Khalid | 12 | male
        Saifullah | 9 | male
        Mashooq Jan | 15 | male
        Nawab | 17 | male
        Sultanat Khan | 16 | male
        Ziaur Rahman | 13 | male
        Noor Mohammad | 15 | male
        Mohammad Yaas Khan | 16 | male
        Qari Alamzeb | 14 | male
        Ziaur Rahman | 17 | male
        Abdullah | 18 | male
        Ikramullah Zada | 17 | male
        Inayatur Rehman | 16 | male
        Shahbuddin | 15 | male
        Yahya Khan | 16 |male
        Rahatullah |17 | male
        Mohammad Salim | 11 | male
        Shahjehan | 15 | male
        Gul Sher Khan | 15 | male
        Bakht Muneer | 14 | male
        Numair | 14 | male
        Mashooq Khan | 16 | male
        Ihsanullah | 16 | male
        Luqman | 12 | male
        Jannatullah | 13 | male
        Ismail | 12 | male
        Taseel Khan | 18 | male
        Zaheeruddin | 16 | male
        Qari Ishaq | 19 | male
        Jamshed Khan | 14 | male
        Alam Nabi | 11 | male
        Qari Abdul Karim | 19 | male
        Rahmatullah | 14 | male
        Abdus Samad | 17 | male
        Siraj | 16 | male
        Saeedullah | 17 | male
        Abdul Waris | 16 | male
        Darvesh | 13 | male
        Ameer Said | 15 | male
        Shaukat | 14 | male
        Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male
        Salman | 12 | male
        Fazal Wahab | 18 | male
        Baacha Rahman | 13 | male
        Wali-ur-Rahman | 17 | male
        Iftikhar | 17 | male
        Inayatullah | 15 | male
        Mashooq Khan | 16 | male
        Ihsanullah | 16 | male
        Luqman | 12 | male
        Jannatullah | 13 | male
        Ismail | 12 | male
        Abdul Waris | 16 | male
        Darvesh | 13 | male
        Ameer Said | 15 | male
        Shaukat | 14 | male
        Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male
        Adnan | 16 | male
        Najibullah | 13 | male
        Naeemullah | 17 | male
        Hizbullah | 10 | male
        Kitab Gul | 12 | male
        Wilayat Khan | 11 | male
        Zabihullah | 16 | male
        Shehzad Gul | 11 | male
        Shabir | 15 | male
        Qari Sharifullah | 17 | male
        Shafiullah | 16 | male
        Nimatullah | 14 | male
        Shakirullah | 16 | male
        Talha | 8 | male

        YEMEN

        Afrah Ali Mohammed Nasser | 9 | female
        Zayda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 7 | female
        Hoda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 5 | female
        Sheikha Ali Mohammed Nasser | 4 | female
        Ibrahim Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 13 | male
        Asmaa Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 9 | male
        Salma Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | female
        Fatima Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 3 | female
        Khadije Ali Mokbel Louqye | 1 | female
        Hanaa Ali Mokbel Louqye | 6 | female
        Mohammed Ali Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | male
        Jawass Mokbel Salem Louqye | 15 | female
        Maryam Hussein Abdullah Awad | 2 | female
        Shafiq Hussein Abdullah Awad | 1 | female
        Sheikha Nasser Mahdi Ahmad Bouh | 3 | female
        Maha Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 12 | male
        Soumaya Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 9 | female
        Shafika Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 4 | female
        Shafiq Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 2 | male
        Mabrook Mouqbal Al Qadari | 13 | male
        Daolah Nasser 10 years | 10 | female
        AbedalGhani Mohammed Mabkhout | 12 | male
        Abdel- Rahman Anwar al Awlaki | 16 | male
        Abdel-Rahman al-Awlaki | 17 | male
        Nasser Salim | 19

        A partial list of the over 200 children the US has killed using drones. Are these killing other people’s children “a price we are willing to pay” as Madeline Albright might put it?

        • AnneDH

          What is the source of this data?

          • brettearle

            Thank you for the question.

            The recklessness of the US military, in oversees adventure–while certainly evident–is, PERIODICALLY, overestimated by anti-American zealots.

          • SteveTheTeacher

            Do you dismiss the Bureau of Investigative Journalism’s findings (http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/namingthedead/?lang=en) as overestimated exaggerations by anti-American zealots?

          • nj_v2

            It’s not much “evident” in the corporate media.

            Portraying murder as “recklessness” hardly does the act justice.

            And you claim to a writer?

            http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2014/03/13/civilian-drone-deaths-triple-in-afghanistan-un.html

            Civilian drone deaths triple in Afghanistan: UN

            http://www.drones.pitchinteractive.com/

            Out of Sight, Out of Mind.

            http://web.law.columbia.edu/sites/default/files/microsites/human-rights-institute/CountingDroneDeathsPresserFINAL.pdf

            Drone strike casualty estimates likely understated

          • brettearle

            Every single death would need to be scrutinized and recognized and understood for its reason–to determine the legitimacy from the stand point of rules of war.

            If rules of war are being violated then
            the President ought to stripped of the Nobel Peace Prize and should be tried, in absentia, for War Crimes, at the Hague.

            What’s more MY FRIEND,

            If you think I condone military murder you would be VERY WRONG.

            But I am not speaking from my point of view.

            In a perfect world, I would vote the Dali Llama as President.

            I am speaking from the Point of View of US Foreign Policy–much of which I object to.

            I abhor the death of civilians.

            My definition of recklessness has to do with the basic irresponsible approach to overseas war.

            It is not my fault that you have decided that my observations can’t be separated from my politics.

            I object STRONGLY to you ascribing positions to me that AREN’T TRUE.

            Your self-righteous attitude overreacted to what I had to say.

            What’s more you tried to parse my words to fit your own moralistic agenda.

            People have been killing other people since TIME IMMEMORIAL.

            In the Bible, GOD KILLS PEOPLE, for chrissake.

            Who the Hell do you think are you are saying that to me or to anyone else with similar views?

            Just an hour ago, I alluded to someone else in this Forum, above, that this country was founded on GENOCIDE.

            Wake up and study world history and US
            History.

            And don’t bother commenting on my comments, again–until you discover a more nuanced and careful attitude.

            I’d ask for an apology.

            But I doubt that you carry the Dignity to give me one.

          • brettearle

            I can see that you don’t have the Cojones to respond to, now do you?

          • SteveTheTeacher

            Source for children the US has killed in drone strikes: Bureau of Investigative Journalism (http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/namingthedead/?lang=en)

            Now, how about applying some of your skepticism to the Obama administration’s program of perpetual targeting killing or our enemies worldwide?

            Try taking another look at the previous question that I have raised.

          • AnneDH

            Thank you. I would like postings of data like this to be accompanied by their source as part of the protocol here.

          • brettearle

            Anne,

            I don’t know how i missed the web site’s credentials.

            But I did.

            I take back what I said.

            But only a part of it.

            My rush to judgement might be because the Teacher was paying for the sins, of others, who post from fringe web sites.

            However, I cannot condone the Site’s points and numbers until I research and ask more questions.

            They look like competent journalists to me–ones that I would read.

            Nevertheless, like the Wall Street Journal and the Weekly Standard–who have decidedly conservative points of view–some liberal journalism outlets are capable of exaggerating US misdeeds, out there, in the World.

          • brettearle

            Anne–

            Check out his reference.

            It’s an obscure website that does not explain WHO THEY ARE.

            Any Journalism website, worth its salt, ALWAYS identifies itself and explains credentials.

            Otherwise, such concealment is TYPICAL of fringe political web sites, with a DECISIVE agenda.

            Check it out….

          • AnneDH

            I checked out the bureau’s website- here’s who they are:
            http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/who/

            They seem legit to me although this particular set of data is difficult to verify in SteveTT’s link.

          • SteveTheTeacher

            Interesting. Still no questioning of the US media parroting officials of the US and Yemeni government regarding the recent drone killings.

            Nevertheless, let me try to guide you through using a database of this nature.

            Go to the site (http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/namingthedead/?lang=en)

            Then click on the menu bar that reads: View the complete list of the identified dead

            Then in the menu titled “Filter criteria,” select the option for child.

            Next click: Update list.

            This will give you several paged of sourced names.

            Click on one or more of the sources. Read the article to find the information on the person identified.

            Make a spreadsheet with the following columns: Name Age, gender, location. Enter the data.

          • AnneDH

            Thank you.
            I tend to take my own time with coming to my own opinions when the source is the media. My father taught me this. ‘How to interpret media sources’ should be a required course for American voters.

          • SteveTheTeacher

            Your welcome.

            Thank you for your critical thought. I take a good deal of time processing and analyzing data. While I have to admit to being frustrated by your questions, part of this is a good frustration. I should be challenged like this for the assertions that I make.

            Part of my frustration is the fact that, while I am often vigorously challenged for my critique of the government’s targeted killing policy and practice, very few challenge the government regardless of the government’s lack of transparency.

          • SteveTheTeacher

            Any comments?

            “WASHINGTON — The Senate has quietly stripped a provision from an intelligence bill that would have required President Obama to make public each year the number of people killed or injured in targeted killing operations in Pakistan and other countries where the United States uses lethal force.”

            http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/29/world/senate-drops-plan-to-require-disclosure-on-drone-killings.html?_r=0

          • brettearle

            Anne–

            I mentioned that I checked out the Site.

            There isn’t ONE credible web site, of journalism, who DOESN’T identify who they are.

            Not one.

            If you take them at their word, you might be seduced, politically, without realizing it.

            Happens to any of us–including me.

            I’m perfectly willing to accept their figures–if it can be proven to me WHO THEY ARE.

            But any site that conceals its identity is very very suspect.

            What’s more, neither of us had ever HEARD of this web site.

            Next thing we know, this Teacher is going to tell us that EVERY WEB SITE, in the world, doesn’t have these statistics because they are pro-AMERICAN and are suppressing the Truth.

          • AnneDH

            I’m an easy victim for this as I’m new to the process & don’t know what I don’t know (if you get what I mean). It is so easy to be duped these days.

          • brettearle

            Rumsfeld?

          • SteveTheTeacher

            I can understand your confusion. You have to click the “About Us” button on their website.

            By the way, for all children that the US has killed listed in their database, there are links to the sources for that information from news organizations such as Reuters, AP, etc. Check it out.

            By the way, just because you haven’t heard of an organization, does not imply that it is not reputable.

            Here are some of the awards/recognition won by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism:

            Amnesty International Digital Awards for an investigation into the Iraq War Logs and latterly for work on Deaths in Police Custody. (2011, 2012)

            The Thomson Reuters reporting Europe Award for a BBC Radio 4 program on Europe’s Missing Millions. (2011)

            Shortlisted for the Foreign Press Association Awards for investigation into
            drone warfare. (2011)

            Shortlisted in four categories at the first Press Gazette British Journalism Awards,
            which emphasise journalism in the public interest. (2012)

            Chris Woods, from the Bureau, was up for Investigation of the year for his work on drone wars. (2012)

            Nick Mathiason was short listed for the Business journalist of the year award for his work on the financial lobby. (2012)

            The Bureau as an entity was up for a Press Gazette British Journalism Awards for an Innovation of the year.(2012)

            Emma Slater’s raft of work earned her a place as the New journalist of the year award. (2012)

          • SteveTheTeacher

            The Bureau of Investigative Journalism methodology is outlined in the following URL:http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/namingthedead/naming-the-dead-the-methodology/?lang=en

            You seem to prefer the methodolgy of the US mainstream media:

            - Report the Washington consensus.

        • brettearle

          Has the consortium explained how they gathered their information?

          Would you care to concede that you consider the Washington Post and New York Times to be shills for the President–because they haven’t confirmed such figures?

          If both publications have not, nor has CNN nor PBS, why do you suppose they haven’t?

          I certainly haven’t heard about these numbers, anywhere else.

          Major news outlets use other credible sources, every day.

          Do you have the guts to answer these questions?

          • SteveTheTeacher

            I am disappointed in your tone. It is in bad taste, Brettearle.

            Nevertheless, I still wish you an enjoyable weekend. I will also address the good question, within your disparaging jab at me.

            My tongue in cheek use of the term “Washington Consensus” is a reference to the classic economic program, called the Washington Consensus, which sought to funnel money for developing countries, to the developed world, through harsh IMF loan criteria and coerced domination of local production by wealthy corporation powers.

            Remember former Jamaican President Michael Manley’s characterization of the gangster-like practices involved in the Washington consensus in the film “Life and Debt”?

            With the occasional exception, the US mainstream media has never been truly open to investigating opinions differing from those generally agreed upon by a consensus of Democrats and Republicans. Read Noam Chomsky’s Manufacturing of Consent.

            Since 9/11/2001, this has gotten exceedingly worse.

            Remember the treatment of those of us critical of President Bush’s lies and war-mongering?

            What happened to the evidence of misinformation in the “facts”that Colin Powell presented to the UN?

            Well regarded international organizations such has Amnesty International have relied on the data I identified in their critique of the US drone policy.

            Nowadays, to find questioning of generally accepted US policy one is better off viewing international media or finding the few outcasts of the mainstream media – Bill Moyers, Jeremy Scahill, Glen Greenwald, Amy Goodman, etc.

      • SteveTheTeacher

        Leaving aside your failure to address the questions I raised regarding the Obama administration’s assertion that the US President can, on his sole authority, without oversight, in non-transparent manner, and with impunity, decide who is to live and who is to be killed anywhere in the world, I have a thought question for you.

        Suppose Vladamir Putin were to establish such a program.

        Suppose that as part of this program, Russian drones tore your children to chop meat.

        Would you be satisfied with his explanation that, the killings were justified because they were targeting a nearby terrorist?

        Suppose that you attend a forum on the new Ukrainian government and the crisis in eastern Ukraine.

        Would you agree that Putin has the right to drop bombs on the meeting because a person that Russia considers a terrorist is there?

        Would it be right for Putin to target you because you are 2 or 3 degrees of freedom away from an individual at the meeting, that Russia considers a terrorist?

        Look at how the US responded, in 2001, when Cuban agents clandestinely sought information on Miami based terrorist linked to bombings of Cuban hotels. They were given lengthy jail sentences – including a double life sentence w/o chance of parole. Several remain in prison to this day.

        • brettearle

          Your view is undermined because you simply think that the US must strive to a higher moral standard–simply because this is where you live and/or this is where you live.

          But more importantly, you actually think that your US of A ought to be operating on a high moral standard.

          My friend, not only does the world NOT WORK that way but this country was founded on GENOCIDE; and in its first hundred years, a fair chunk of its economic engine was smashed and crashed on the backs of indentured servants without pay whose skin color was different than the wonderfully self-righteous and cruel masters who were lashing them.

          Don’t give me the BS about America’s moral standard.

          WAKE UP and realize how the ugly world WORKS….

          • SteveTheTeacher

            “But more importantly, you actually think that your US of A ought to be operating on a high moral standard.”

            As a matter of fact I do.

            If not, how are we any better than the “terrorists” that we criticize?

            The paradigm you present is one of acceptance of the status quo do to the inability to effect change.

            We, as a world, don’t have to focus on our superficial differences as a rationale for hating and killing one another.

            In spite of the negative perspective that you, and others, embrace, I believe that it is people worldwide should, can, and will all operate on a higher moral ground.

          • brettearle

            Who says we ARE better?

            Where is it written that we are?

            You’re problem is that you need to feel good about yourself….

            RATHER than understanding HOW THE WORLD WORKS.

          • SteveTheTeacher

            Its no more about feeling good than it is about ignoring fundamental truths about human interactions.

            I am suggesting that we can and should make the world a more just, equitable, peaceful, and loving place for our children and future generations worldwide. Some of us live our lives dedicate to this.

            Peace and happiness to you this weekend Brettearle.

          • brettearle

            Of COURSE we SHOULD make the world a better place.

            But until you wake up to the kind of world we live in, you will be at a disadvantage, in your potential to help.

            The US is as bad, or worse, in the Morality
            Department–as anyone else.

            Our country was partially founded on GENOCIDE.

            And very few are willing to concede it…

            Peace and Happiness To You This Weekend
            SteveTheTeacher

          • SteveTheTeacher

            “Our country was partially founded on GENOCIDE.

            And very few are willing to concede it…”

            A reality not easily overlooked by those of us who descend from the survivors of this genocide.

            Just back from chatting with some of my Brazilian brothers and sisters – descendants of the first new world nation to liberate itself (1605) from European rule, Palmares (now in eastern Brazil). They relayed the story of how escaped Black slaves, indigenous people, and whites of Palmares were able to face down the powerful armies of the Spanish, Dutch, and Portuguese.

            One should not let the length and difficulty of the journey one must travel be a reason to refrain from taking a step in the right direction.

          • brettearle

            Thanks for your comment.

            Do you have a book reference for the Palmares.

            Are you full American-Indian ancestry?

          • SteveTheTeacher

            You can try “O quilombo dos Palmares” but its in portuguese. Not too hard if you can read Spanish.

            Sociedades cimarrones (Spanish) isn’t bad either.

            You can also try viewing the 1984 movie Quilombo: ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLZTYINnXIc

            Sorry for the implication of a direct line to indigenous heritages from the US. 100% mix of the indigenous Tainos, Blacks, and whites that somehow made it to the shores of several Caribbean isles and a little more.

            Despite the heat, nice to share ideas. Enjoy your weekend. Got to get back to work.

      • anamaria23

        I wrestle with this a lot and do despise the innocents lost. Then again, I ask what I would do if I were President with the well being of the Amer people my charge. Would I choose the questionably lesser of evils (drones) perchance a more devastating attack than 9/11, even nuclear, by terrorists happen? Would I rather be tried as a war criminal or one who enabled another, worse 9/11? That is why President’s hair turns grey.
        Once asked what kept him up at night, Pres Obama said ” Pakistan”. I do not excuse the killing of innocents, but do ponder it.

        • brettearle

          Study the issues of Hiroshima and you should find some of your answers.

          It could be the greatest [not as in good] and most difficult decision of the 20th century–and possibly, so far, in the 21st century.

  • Alchemical Reaction

    Tom, please, please, please do a show on Binary (& Ecological) Economics! Will be forever grateful! Really love your show!

    • Human2013

      Yes, please. Can we get Thomas Picketty on the show.

      • HonestDebate1

        Here is a good summary of Picketty’s book.

        • Ray in VT

          From noted economist and all around genius Rush Limbaugh? No thanks. I’ll read a review from someone who has a clue.

          • HonestDebate1

            He’s not only a harmless lovable fuzzball, he an economic genius. Can you refute what he wrote in the arena of ideas? Do you endorse the theories posited in Pickettty’s book?

          • Ray in VT

            Hahahaha. Rush is an economic genius. That’s the funniest thing that I’ve read today, but I’m sure that you’re good for more humor.

            Debate his “ideas”? Which ones? Like Picketty is a wuss? What advanced debate tactics. I see where you get yours.

            I have read a bit about the book. It is creating an interesting debate in economic circles, and I think that Mr. Picketty is far more qualified to judge economic history and trends than a pill popping shock jock.

          • HonestDebate1

            I’ll take that as a no and yes respectively.

          • Ray in VT

            I can’t speak as to whether or not he is a wuss. I haven’t read the book, and I highly doubt that Rush has either. A lot of people who are very well informed in the arena of economics are finding it very interesting. I’ll listen to them before some blow hard like Rush.

          • Don_B1

            You can get a glimpse into the book from Paul Krugman’s column today:

            http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/25/opinion/krugman-the-piketty-panic.html?ref=paulkrugman&_r=0

            and then the other references I provided to AnneDH in a post above (oldest first order). Two that are discussions of the book are:

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc-Ixj9OcOw&list=UUs45vMZoT1-uLUwWBqic0oQ

            and

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zytqTSh3oGw

          • Ray in VT

            Can’t we just call him a wuss and a Marxist and move along?

          • Don_B1

            That definitely is what the radical right 0.1% wants to do! They just don’t have any good arguments against the main thesis of Mr. Piketty’s book, so let the ad hominem taunts stream out!

          • Ray in VT

            Oh, but they have great economic geniuses like Rush Limbaugh to assail his arguments.

          • Don_B1

            Absolutely right!

            Here is a link to a slightly different view/aspect of the class warfare that people like Rush Limbaugh are promoting:

            http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2014/04/21/u-s-is-a-world-leader-in-class-conflict-over-government-spending/

          • Ray in VT

            Interesting. Thanks.

          • Don_B1

            Thomas Piketty’s book has theories that are backed up with a plethora of empirical evidence, painstakingly documented and totally untouched by the vapid arguments of the radical right.

          • HonestDebate1

            In my minds eye, I can see you bowing.

          • Human2013

            Please read the book. It’s a book of FACTS — i know that’s foreign for you. If it tuns out that Marx was right about Capitalism, than let us celebrate his visionary work.

          • HonestDebate1

            You are on record.

        • jefe68

          You’re on a troll roll today…

        • Don_B1

          For those who want to know why the right is so scared of Piketty’s book to indulge in ad hominem, strawman, etc., “attacks,” here is the answer:

          http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/25/opinion/krugman-the-piketty-panic.html?ref=paulkrugman&_r=0

          “No, what’s really new about “Capital” is the way it demolishes that most cherished of conservative myths, the insistence that we’re living in a meritocracy in which great wealth is earned and deserved.

          For the past couple of decades, the conservative response to attempts to make soaring incomes at the top into a political issue has involved two lines of defense: first, denial that the rich are actually doing as well and the rest as badly as they are, but when denial fails, claims that those soaring incomes at the top are a justified reward for services rendered. Don’t call them the 1 percent, or the wealthy; call them “job creators.”

          But how do you make that defense if the rich derive much of their income not from the work they do but from the assets they own? And what if great wealth comes increasingly not from enterprise but from inheritance?

          What Mr. Piketty shows is that these are not idle questions. Western societies before World War I were indeed dominated by an oligarchy of inherited wealth — and his book makes a compelling case that we’re well on our way back toward that state.”

          so expect [Dis]HonestDebate1 to adamantly ride the horse he brought here all the way, as far as the money backers keep supporting it.

          But this book really shows that conservatives no longer are in command of “ideas,” as they so often claim.

  • Iboston617

    It is gravely disappointing that America continues to deny the profound effects of race on the matter of continuing social policies or calling them unconstitutional. How many Americans recognize that white women are the largest beneficiaries of affirmative action? Race inequality deserves just as much attention as gender inequality, but there seems to be much more friction when the concept of race-based affirmative action is discussed. Once again, we see how Americans and policymakers react when social policies are shown to benefit the “undeserving black population.”

    Would the War on Poverty have garnered as much support if it weren’t for pictures of poor whites from Appalachia? Put a black face on the news and the war effort crumbles.

    How do we attempt to lift blacks, Latinos, and American Indians out of poverty now? Some will point to class-based affirmative action as a solution. I am a proponent of socioeconomic diversity and believe socioeconomic status should be considered in college and university admissions. However, class-based affirmative action still ignores the uniquely persistent concentrated poverty that blacks must suffer through. It is not a solution for racial inequality.

  • Ed75

    This Sunday is the second Sunday of Easter, Divine Mercy Sunday established by John Paul II on the basis of the Polish sister (now St.) Faustyna Kowalska. Pope John XXIII and Pope John Paul II will be canonized that day in Rome. (There is an indulgence available – confession and Eucharist on that day – complete remission of the punishment of sin.)

    Of peasant stock, John XXIII was papal ambassador to Bulgaria where he worked with the Orthodox, then to Greece and Turkey where he moved many Jewish people during the ’30s and the war to independent Turkey and to safety, then nuncio to France, then the Archbishop of Venice, and then pope. ‘The good pope’, really beloved, he surprised everyone by calling Vatican II, which built on Pope Pius XII’s encyclicals to orient to Church to the changing world.

    John Paul II was probably the most important person in the 20th century. A man of prodigious talent – linguist, actor, poet, dramatist, philosopher (2 doctorates), theologian, sportsman, humanitarian, global politician, man of profound prayer and spirituality – also beloved – he was the third longest reigning pope, correctly applied Vatican II’s teaching, inaugurated World Youth Day, and was instrumental in bringing down Communism. (See Newt Gingrich’s movie ‘Nine days that changed the world’ documentary, wonderful. He asked for a 2-day trip to Poland in May, they gave him a nine-day trip to Poland in June. What a mistake!) And prepared the Church to enter the third millennium.
    The canonization, mobbed, will be shown on EWTN TV.

    • Ray in VT

      “John Paul II was probably the most important person in the 20th century.” I think that relatively few historians would agree with such a statement.

      • Ed75

        We’ll see. Perhaps I should have used the word ‘Greatest’. There was Pope Leo the Great, Pope Gregory the Great, maybe one other, now Pope John Paul II is being called ‘John Paul the Great’.

        • Ray in VT

          I don’t think that that word change really affects anything, unless you are suggesting that he was a better person, but I think that even that argument is questionable. Maybe the Church will take such a position, but I wouldn’t really give much credence to them tooting their own horn. It’s just that other people had a greater impact than him.

          • Ed75

            I guess it’s like the argument about who was the best center fielder. But the Church didn’t make this statement, I came across it in the movie ‘Nine days that changed the world’ by Newt Gingrich and his wife, a powerful film. In it George Weigel suggests that John Paul II’s nine day trip to Poland was in some sense a pivot point for the 20th century. (The Church isn’t so concerned so much about a person’s historical effect but on the person’s holiness.)

        • Acnestes

          Unbelievable. Reminiscent of Stephen Colbert’s perennial, “George Bush – great president or greatest president?”

      • brettearle

        But would agree that he was one of the most?

        [that we know of....]

        • Ray in VT

          One of the most? Perhaps. It depends upon how long the “most” list is. Top ten. I don’t really think so.

          • brettearle

            My estimation is clouded by my personal affinity for him–even though I’m not Christian.

    • Acnestes

      The Church has lowered the bar on sainthood so far it’s a sick joke. Saints, covering up for and enabling child molesters.

  • Ray in VT

    To whom will Obama surrender American interests next? He’s already bowing to the robots? They haven’t even tried to rise up against us yet.

    • nj_v2

      WIth his lobbyist stooge in the FTC, he’s working on handing over the Interwebs to the telecoms.

      • Ray in VT

        Plenty of legitimate criticism there.

        • nj_v2

          Which means you won’t be hearing it from the Teabagger wing of the Republicans. Why wouldn’t they be all over this?

          Once again, Obama is doing exactly the opposite of what he postured. He should just fire Wheeler’s butt, but he’s once again showing he’s just a Company man.

          http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/elements/2014/04/the-end-of-net-neutrality.html

          GOODBYE, NET NEUTRALITY; HELLO, NET DISCRIMINATION

          In 2007, at a public forum at Coe College, in Iowa, Presidential candidate Barack Obama was asked about net neutrality. Specifically, “Would you make it a priority in your first year of office to reinstate net neutrality as the law of the land? And would you pledge to only appoint F.C.C. commissioners that support open Internet principles like net neutrality?”

          “The answer is yes,” Obama replied. “I am a strong supporter of net neutrality.” Explaining, he said, “What you’ve been seeing is some lobbying that says that the servers and the various portals through which you’re getting information over the Internet should be able to be gatekeepers and to charge different rates to different Web sites…. And that I think destroys one of the best things about the Internet—which is that there is this incredible equality there.”

          If reports in the Wall Street Journal are correct, Obama’s chairman of the Federal Communications Commission, Thomas Wheeler, has proposed a new rule that is an explicit and blatant violation of this promise. In fact, it permits and encourages exactly what Obama warned against: broadband carriers acting as gatekeepers and charging Web sites a payola payment to reach customers through a “fast lane.”…

          (snipped)

    • hennorama

      Ray in VT — Bundian bovines?

  • nj_v2

    Weekly roundup of right-wing bigotry, regression, inanity, and general jacka**ery; Part 1…

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/marionville-mayor-daniel-clevinger-resigns-frazier-glenn-miller

    Mayor Who ‘Kind Of Agreed’ With Alleged Jewish Center Shooter Resigns

    The Missouri mayor who spoke kindly of the white supremacist who allegedly went on a deadly shooting rampage at Jewish centers announced his resignation Monday night, the Springfield News-Leader reported.…

    Another woman present at the meeting offered “I personally know and love a Jew. I have a grandson who is Jewish.”

    (excerpts)

    http://www.propublica.org/article/republicans-say-no-to-cdc-gun-violence-research?utm_source=et&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=dailynewsletter

    Republicans Say No to CDC Gun Violence Research

    Giving the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention money for gun violence research is a “request to fund propaganda,” a Georgia congressman says.

    After the Sandy Hook school shooting, Rep. Jack Kingston (R-GA) was one of a few congressional Republicans who expressed a willingness to reconsider the need for gun control laws.…

    More than a year later, as Kingston competes in a crowded Republican primary race for a U.S. Senate seat, the congressman is no longer talking about common ground.

    In a statement to ProPublica, Kingston said he would oppose a proposal from President Obama for $10 million in CDC gun research funding. “The President’s request to fund propaganda for his gun-grabbing initiatives though the CDC will not be included in the FY2015 appropriations bill,” Kingston said.…

    (excerpts)

    http://www.southernstudies.org/2014/04/meet-the-nc-officials-who-promoted-a-far-right-con.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=fs%2004-18-2014

    Meet the NC officials who promoted a far-right conspiracy theory to discredit environmental sustainability

    The state of North Carolina has no shortage of serious environmental problems to worry about, from coal ash contaminating rivers, to massive sewage spills, to rising seas caused by manmade global warming.

    But in recent years, some of the state’s elected officials have devoted time and energy to fighting a fictional problem cooked up by far-right conspiracy theorists aiming to discredit environmental sustainability initiatives.…

    http://www.alternet.org/phyllis-schlafly-and-other-christian-crazies-kick-it-notch?akid=11733.1084699.4Rupvi&rd=1&src=newsletter983505&t=3&paging=off&current_page=1#bookmark

    6 Dastardly Right-Wing Declarations This Week: The Phyllis ‘Expand the Gender Pay Gap’ Schlafly Edition

    1. Phyllis Schlafly: Women need to be paid less so they can find husbands.

    2. Pastor Kevin Swanson compares being gay to being a cannibal or an axe murderer.

    3. Bryan Fischer: The poor should kiss the ground on which rich people walk, just as Jesus said.

    4. Rep. Glenn Gruenhagen: The best way to stop bullying is to beat children.

    5. Brit Hume says Obama and Holder use race as “a shield and a sword,” then is hurt that people are mean to him on Twitter.

    6. Michigan mayor: Freedom of religion does not include freedom from religion.

    ([sub]headlines)

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/04/19/missouri-gop-federal-agents-who-enforce-gun-laws-would-be-denied-future-state-employment/

    Missouri GOP: Federal agents who enforce gun laws would be denied future state employment

    Missouri Republicans are considering a bill that would bar federal law enforcement officials from state jobs if they ever enforced federal gun laws that the legislators consider ‘unconstitutional.’

    According to the Missourian, GOP legislators would like to include a provision, in the so-called ‘Second Amendment Preservation Act,’ barring federal employees who enforce, or aid in a potential enforcement of certain gun-control laws in the course of their careers, from any Missouri state or local law enforcement jobs in the future.

    The latest provision is seen as a compromise by the Republican lawmakers from an earlier version that would have called for possible jail time or allowing civil damages stemming from lawsuits filed by Missourians who think an agent infringed upon their gun rights.…

    (snipped)

    • Ray in VT

      I saw the first one late last week. That’s just kind of scary. One would think that his constituents might have some questions for him.

      How could you neglect to mention Cliven Bundy’s comments on race, which have sent a few of his prominent supporters running for the hills.

    • Charles

      I hadn’t seen the third one before. As a NC native, I’ve watched with moderate alarm as the far-Right attempts to send my state back to the horse-and-buggy days.
      This one’s just funny, though. Good laugh for early on a Friday.

      • HonestDebate1

        Things are looking up here in NC since Republicans took control of the Assembly for the first time in over a century and followed it up by electing the first Republican Governor in over 20 years. Not that Republicans are anything to brag about but the bar is low.

        • Charles

          I’m not sure I agree they’re looking up, but the Republicans were certainly due.
          In any event, I was no fan of the Democrat dynasties that have run roughshod over NC politics for the past century.

          Where do you live?

          • HonestDebate1

            Alexander County, you?

          • Charles

            Ashe

          • HonestDebate1

            We’re neighbors, we may even know each other. I have lot’s of friends there and go there often. I lived in Todd a hundred years ago. A good friend owns a flea market in Deep Gap but they just closed after many many years.

          • Charles

            Well, Todd is doing just fine. Of course, the Florida folks will be up any time now, so I better plan on taking an extra 10 minutes to get to work.

          • HonestDebate1

            We used to call them “Floridiots” but I came from Florida to Boone in 1980. Still I know exactly what you mean.

            I’ve played piano with a really good singer for many a party up there. It’s a great community on the New River.

            There is good trout fishing in that area.

        • Ray in VT

          So, are they responsible for the slower job creation in 2013 than in 2012, as well as the significant declines in the LFPR from the past few months, or is that the fault of the Democrats?

          • HonestDebate1

            “They” took over in 2010 so they own 2012′s numbers. And what would you know? You don’t live here? Google is not knowledge.

            http://www.camharris.us/2014/04/nc-labor-force-shrinking-faster-rest-nation/

          • Ray in VT

            Yeah, but I can read, and I’ll stick to sources that aren’t a college kid. This, for instance:

            http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2014/04/21/new-jobs-data-shows-underwhelming-growth-declining-labor-force/

            There’s plenty out there that isn’t from some anti-Obama frat kid.

          • HonestDebate1

            Can you refute what Mr. Harris says in the arena of ideas?

            Have you looked at Clayton Henkel’s website? She’s a hack around here. Believe who you want. I’ll look with my own eyes.

            Here, check out the numbers:

            http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LASST370000000000003?data_tool=XGtable

          • Ray in VT

            Let’s see, according to the source that I looked at North Carolina’s LFPR has declined 1.7% from December 2012 to present, while the U.S. one declined by 0.5%, and “From July until November (2013), the North Carolina labor force declined by 0.8%, but the U.S. force fell by only 0.3%”, so yeah, it has fallen faster in NC than nationally.

            Oh, so you are declaring Clayton Henkel a hack? Way to address the data cited. Way to engage the ideas. More dishonest debate.

          • Steve__T

            Why do you think I moved to California The Republicans said NUTS to all of you. I’m ashamed to say I voted for one.

          • Ray in VT

            How is California working for you? I’ve never gotten out that far. One of my friends once considered moving to either northern California or Oregon, but then apathy set it and he stayed put.

          • Steve__T

            It’s not bad, little higher gas and property cost. food and utility’s are close in comparison and the weather has been great and so’s the fishin!

    • HonestDebate1

      I’ve looked high and low for any mention of the party affiliation of Clevenger and I can’t find it. That tells me he is undoubtedly a Democrat. If he was a Republican it would be all over the place.

      To be clear, I would never paint the entire party with his anti-Semitic brush but it does not surprise me.

      • jefe68

        Your comment tells me that you’re undoubtedly here to make false claims, which is your MO.

        Ex-mayor Clevenger was an anti-Semite.

        • HonestDebate1

          …and a sick puppy. I have no proof but there is no mention which is tacit proof. It’s the way the media rolls.

          • jefe68

            So I guess all that chest puffing about “honest debate” was really a smoke screen. The right wing clown show continues.

          • HonestDebate1

            It would be in every headline if he were a Republican. It would be dishonest to assume otherwise.

          • jefe68

            Maybe you should take a pill and lie down.

      • nj_v2

        I”ve looked high and low and i can’t find the word “Republican” in anything i posted.

        I also looked high and low and found high and low in this piece:

        http://usbacklash.org/marionville-mo-democrat-mayor-daniel-clevenger-is-friends-with-says-he-kind-of-agreed-with-kc-jewish-center-murderer/

        [[ We searched high and low for the political party affiliation of the Marionville, Mo. Mayor, Daniel Clevenger, but none of the stories we have read tell if Clevenger is a Democrat or Republican. ]]

        I’m surprised DisHonestMisDebatorGreggg didn’t also mention the KKK connection, since he was already appropriating their words as his.

        I’ll be searching high and low for other disingenuous prattle from the conservo clown posse here.

        • HonestDebate1

          What words did I appropriate? It’s no secret that the press acts like this.

          http://newsbusters.org/issues-events-groups/media-bias-debate/name-party

          • Ray in VT

            Like when various major news outlets didn’t identify the disgraced Lt. Governor of Florida by party? Democrat Jennifer Carroll, right?

          • HonestDebate1
          • Ray in VT

            The initial AP report? Not for her resignation. So, how does the article that you linked to square up with your thesis about how Republicans get their party ID splashed prominently when they get in trouble? What is her party again? She’s a Democrat, right?

          • HonestDebate1

            No, she’s a Republican.

            Do you really want to claim Democrat scandals are as prominently identified by party as Republicans? Really? Are you serious?

          • Ray in VT

            I think that the narrative that you advance is flawed, but that won’t stop you from crying foul whenever you get the chance.

          • nj_v2

            Dodge and deflect. Gets called out, changes subject. More “honest debate.”

  • Charles

    I hope Jack will weigh in on the fallout from the Tea Party’s ill-fated embrace of the Bundy Ranch debacle. It’s looking less like Bundy’s an American patriot and more like he’s a racist malcontent.

    I might caution the Tea Party to be a little more judicious with who they champion in the future…there are quite a few TP standard-bearers with egg on their face today.

    On the other hand, it gives some Ted Nugent types a chance to go play dress-up commando, so somebody’s having a good time with this.

    • Human2013

      I’m hoping for some commentary as well. But truth be told, Bundy’s comments reveal the sentiments of so many Americans. They don’t dislike government per se, they dislike government for providing any support to a group of people that had their heritage and economic viability stolen from them. I’m just patiently waiting for others to tell us what they know about the “Negro.”

      • HonestDebate1

        That’s sick.

        • Human2013

          Yes, I do agree. Why is at that so many Conservatives focus on the poverty of African Americans and disregard the poverty of their fellow “white” citizens. Their numbers far outweigh the small fraction of Af. Americans on the government dole. Why didn’t Bundy focus on the meth and crack addicted white parents that sit on their porch all day – surely their numbers are far larger than the former.

          • HonestDebate1

            You made it all up. Your view of Conservatives is a caricature disconnected with reality.

          • jefe68

            Hmmm… Really? Take a look in the mirror…

          • Don_B1

            It is certainly NOT a caricature of conservative politicians and pundits, though I would like to believe, though it is hard considering how they continue to vote for those yahoos that you like to support, that there are a lot of “silent” Republicans out there who are astounded at how wild and crazy the Republican Party politicians have become.

            But it is really hard, and getting harder every time you post.

          • HonestDebate1

            You are entitled to your misguided opinion.

          • Don_B1

            It only appears misguided to someone who lives in a fantasy world, as you seem to.

          • HonestDebate1

            As I said…

        • Human2013

          If you focus on “white” poverty, will it discredit the GOPs elusive economic theories. If you focus on “white” poverty, will it appear that little is done for your own kind. If you focused on “white” poverty, will the GOP lose support. If you focus on “white” poverty, will you reveal the truth about the GOPs worship of the rich. If you focus on “white” poverty in the swath of states across the south, will people soon realize that the GOP doesn’t care about economic mobility, education, healthcare for their citizens. If the GOP turned its attention to “white” poverty, will the hypocrisy diminish their credibility.

          • HonestDebate1

            I don’t associate poverty with skin color.

          • nj_v2

            It’s all about you.

          • HonestDebate1

            No it’s not but it is about honest debate, hence your confusion.

          • Ray in VT

            What does “honest debate” mean in Gregggggggggggspeak?

          • nj_v2

            Translate.com needs to add a Greggg function.

          • HonestDebate1

            You guys are a hoot!

          • hennorama

            nj_v2 — I seem to recall someone in here (1Brett1?) who had compiled a rudimentary Gregg Smith –> English lexicion. It was a supplement to the Gregg Smith Response-O-Matic, as I recall.

          • Ray in VT

            That’s sick.

          • hennorama

            Too long, didn’t read.

          • Ray in VT

            You are not a serious person.

          • hennorama

            Alrighty then.

          • Ray in VT

            APOLOGIZE IMMEDIATELY!

          • hennorama

            Get me out of your head.

          • Ray in VT

            Lame.

          • hennorama

            Your premise is whacked.

          • Ray in VT

            Don’t tell me what I think.

          • hennorama

            I’m not reading all that.

          • Ray in VT

            Yadda yadda.

          • Steve__T

            To hennorama and Ray in VT
            This is for the whole exchange LMAOROF
            Would add but but aHHaHHaHHaaaaaaaa

          • hennorama

            Steve__T — speaking for myself only, I was absolutely seri … ah, who am I kidding — glad you enjoyed it.

          • brettearle

            Don’t tell me what I think–especially when I say, `Alrighty then’!

          • hennorama

            Alighty then.

          • hennorama

            Ray in VT — my recollection about 1Brett1′s authorship was correct, except that there are two volumes of “The HonestDebate1′s glossary of translated Greggspeak phrases.”

            See:
            http://onpoint.wbur.org/2013/07/19/week-in-the-news-zimmerman-abortion-filibuster#comment-971238175

            http://onpoint.wbur.org/2013/07/19/week-in-the-news-zimmerman-abortion-filibuster#comment-971524098

          • brettearle

            No need to point out his Legacy.

            Otherwise, next thing you know, he’ll be handing out his autograph.

          • hennorama

            brettearle — 1Brett1 can hand out all the autographs he wishes to, IMV.

          • brettearle

            i blew that one.

            I thought you were talking about someone else.

            1Brett1 is great.

            You can likely guess whom I thought you were discussing.

            And who gave you permission to joke around with other participants?

            Next thing you know, I’ll be seeing encoded acronyms that will seem Foreign.

          • hennorama

            brettearle — I wasn’t aware that we were “exclusive.” You haven’t even bought me dinner.

          • brettearle

            OK, OK…

            It’s just that I wouldn’t want you to hone your skills.

            I’m having enough troubles as it is, staying on top of the Comic World….

          • hennorama

            brettearle — gotcha. Your concern is about being left in the dust rather than brokenhearted.

          • brettearle

            Leave it to you, to see the difference….

            Some day, I will become a heralded Sleuth.

            You wait and see. You wait and see.

          • hennorama

            brettearle — part of my, to quote [WorriedfortheCountry], “obtuse schtick” [sic], involves reflecting back my understanding of someone’s words. (And to invite correction.)

            So sue me, YRTY.

          • brettearle

            I don’t think that’s your only MO, is it?

            If it were, I’d rather see the World by, “whiffling through the Tulgey wood”.

          • hennorama

            brettearle — you already know the answer to your own question.

          • brettearle

            Do you think the World would be better off, or worse off, without Rhetorical Questions?

            Don’t say both, you must take a stand. Or should I say, `Take the Stand’? [And that wasn't a Rhetorical question.]

            And don’t call me Shirley…

          • hennorama

            brettearle — worse, of course.

          • brettearle

            I actually think we’d be better off, with many more.

            Don’t you think?

            Don’t you think?

            Don’t you think?

          • hennorama

            brettearle — one of my faves, from George Carlin:

            “Isn’t it a bit unnerving that doctors call what they do ‘practice’?”

          • brettearle

            Ouch!

            Remember the scene with the Dentist, in “Marathon Man”?

          • hennorama

            brettearle — Is it safe to discuss that scene “in here”?

          • brettearle

            First, of course we don’t have to discuss it at all.

            After all, it is a free country….

            Secondly–unless you’re practicing one of them there `Rhetorical Flourishes of Obtuse Schtick’, maybe you’re mixing up the actual Flick, with another one.

          • hennorama

            brettearle — are you breathing dust so soon?

          • brettearle

            This one, you will have to explain?

            I know you usually go for the verbal juggler–so I am trying to disassemble, as opposed to dissemble…

          • hennorama

            brettearle — unnerving–>Marathon Man dentist–>”Is it safe?”

            hone–> having enough troubles–>left in the dust–>breathing dust

          • brettearle

            Well, I know you’re connecting prior phrases or words, from our dialogue in recent minutes.

            But I’m not quite getting it…should I call in my Lieblings Madchen as a consultant?

          • hennorama

            brettearle — as you brought up the scene, I assumed you would understand immediately that my question, “Is it safe to discuss that scene “in here”? included the most famous quote from the film, i.e., “Is it safe?”

          • brettearle

            So then you don’t want me to call in Lieblings Madchen!

          • hennorama

            brettearle — that I didn’t answer your now-obviated question does not imply that which you have inferred. A larger audience is always welcome, as are added participants.

          • brettearle

            Stop being diplomatic [you're very good at that].

            I was only teasing….

          • hennorama

            brettearle — enough with the insults already!

          • brettearle

            That was, especially, a good one.

            That was the first time, in a while [like say in a few minutes] that you have clearly demonstrated that I’m a positive influence on you….

          • hennorama

            brettearle — (2nd attempt) please allow a revision:

            Jane, you ignorant slvt ….

          • brettearle

            Aha!

            SNL

          • hennorama

            brettearle — well done, sir. However, departing is such sweet … yadda yadda yadda … canine chow chewing.

          • brettearle

            chow!

            Later….

          • brettearle

            Early Alzheimer’s

          • hennorama

            brettearle — I understand that dust masks and respirators can give symptomatic relief.

          • brettearle

            Should I consult with my Dentist or with my Geriatrician?

          • hennorama

            brettearle — will you recall my response?

            If so: whichever consultation requires the least nerve.

          • brettearle

            If I go to an Elder Doc, he won’t give me Laughing Gas….

          • hennorama

            brettearle — that’s an important consideration, but the key question is, will he tell you to get off his lawn?

          • brettearle

            Your question, I know, is not supposed to be as cryptic as it comes across to me.

            There are times when I think that I am looking for my keys under a street lamp because there’s light there–even though I lost them, 40 yards away…..

          • hennorama

            brettearle — it’s not nearly as much fun when explaining, but …

            Elder doc –> older doc –> crank/codger/Clint cliche —> “get off my lawn!”

          • Steve__T

            Maybe some Elderberry wine?

          • brettearle

            Excellent Pun!

          • jefe68

            That’s sick… You’re on the Trolllllllll Trainnnnnnn.

      • hennorama

        Human2013 — it’s as if Mr. Bundy is stuck in some sort of time warp, in which it’s always the 1950s or earlier.

        As to you “patiently waiting for others to tell us what they know about the “Negro,” at least one member of this forum has been known to “Honest”ly write about things that “Blacks are …”

    • HonestDebate1

      Gotta love Ted Nugent!

    • Government_Banking_Serf

      Lets find some pot smoking racist malcontents so we can discredit that whole swath of people.

      The knee-jerk paintbrush technique is so lazy and tiring.

      Do you need to be a racist to be pro pot?

      Do you need to be a racist to be pro limited government?

      Do you guys really believe your hypocritical and illogical smears, or are they just meant to get a rise on the message boards…..

      • Charles

        My point was not to discredit Bundy, who I’m sure has many fine qualities, rather, the politicos and pundits who seize every opportunity to pander without taking a longer view of the situation.

      • jefe68

        Well, there were plenty of right wingers jumping into his camp and Bundy, despite being a scofflaw, is also a racist. There is such a thing as guilt by association and in this case, guilt by stupidity.

    • AC

      i just heard a highlight on this – what exactly happened?
      it seems like he was belittling ‘welfare users’ while he wanted his cows to eat ‘free govt grass’?
      this confused me – how does this philosophy become rational in his head?

  • HonestDebate1

    So now our President is bowing to a Japanese robot. Terrific.

    • Ray in VT

      I jumped the gun and already posted this ridiculous attack on the President. I was joking.

      • hennorama

        Ray in VT — talking about grasping at robotic strawmen …

        • Ray in VT

          I bet that his apology tour to robots will begin soon. First up Alphie II, then Johnny Five.

    • Charles

      Come on…if the Japanese were going to become our overlords it would have happened by now.

      Seriously though, I’m much more concerned that Chuck Hagel met a live-size humanoid robot this week.
      Let’s remember that good ideas sometimes manifest themselves as evil. After all, it was the Jedi who commissioned the Storm Troopers, later to become the Army of the Republic.

      • HonestDebate1

        Yea, it was just a robot. Bowing to the Saudi King, the Japanese Emperor, the Queen, a few mayors and even Pelosi is pretty creepy though,

        • Charles

          Yes, heaven forbid our nation’s highest representative show respect to his hosts when on foriegn soil.

          We should really go back to being the cavalier America of the last decade.

          • HonestDebate1

            One can be respectful without being subservient.

          • anamaria23

            It is amazing how a simple act of greeting, mutually shared, can be construed as something ugly. Yet, one who cruelly demeans others such as a Ted Nugent is a source of pride and a real “man”.

          • nj_v2

            That’s how DishonestDebate rolls.

          • jefe68

            He’s a caricature of the right wing white male ideologue.

          • Ray in VT

            A very model.

          • HonestDebate1

            I disagree Anamaria with your implication it is just a greeting or that I oppose niceties and civility.

          • anamaria23

            What is it if not a greeting, practiced throughout the Asian world and other places as well. The Japanese PM bowed to our POTUS as well. You can try to make it more if it suits you. Who ever said you oppose niceties? I thought I did see however that you approve Ted Nugent’s nastiness.

          • HonestDebate1

            No it’s a sign of subservience from Biblical times to the present. It’ is also a greeting but doesn’t end there.

            I like Ted Nugent but don’t approve of his nastiness. It’s not the way I roll but that doesn’t take away from his positions.

          • anamaria23

            No true, at least in the Asian world. It is a form of greeting. Google it.

          • HonestDebate1

            I didn’t dispute that. Reread my reply.

          • anamaria23

            Where does it end?

          • Ray in VT

            On the Plains of Armageddon?

          • Steve__T

            You now know what it is to have a Dishonest debate.

        • nj_v2

          Bowing is insufficiently respectful. He should be kissing them.

          • HonestDebate1

            Alrighty then.

          • brettearle

            Basically, what he’s doing, in the picture, is:

            He’s running interference for his younger brother’s 2016 campaign, by giving a photo op to Gay Rights; and therefore luring Democrats who support a liberal social agenda, but a conservative fiscal policy.

        • anamaria23

          We need more “bowing” to each other-
          more Namaste.

  • Government_Banking_Serf

    The gift that keeps on taking. Clinton-Greenspan-Bush-Bernanke-Obama-Yellen Bubblenomics.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-22/david-stockman-blasts-americas-housing-fiasco-you-alan-greenspan

  • Government_Banking_Serf

    So which royal decrees are on the discussion block this week?

    • Ray in VT

      Has QEII being saying things of note of late?

      • Government_Banking_Serf

        I think Yellen is working on QE IV by now….

        • HonestDebate1

          QE umpteen here we come! I really think it’s bad policy… but the politics work to hide the mess we’re in. The day of reckoning is coming but there is no repent in sight.

          • Ray in VT

            We’re doomed! DOOOMMMMED!!!!

          • Government_Banking_Serf

            What’s your current share of the National Debt? Writing a check next week?

            All funny money to you? Waiting for US to have a peaceful and inconsequential Bankruptcy proceeding?

            Of course we aren’t doomed. There are no such things as actions and consequences. Thats so…….. 1700′s!

          • Ray in VT

            Indeed, there are no actions and consequences in Obama’s land of no rule of law, and something else, yadda, yadda, yadda.

          • HonestDebate1

            Well said.

          • Ray in VT

            DOOOOOOOMMMMMMMEEDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • HonestDebate1

            Even better.

          • Ray in VT

            DOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • Ray in VT

          To which royal decrees are you referring if not the Queen of England?

          • Government_Banking_Serf

            You don’t really need to ask do you?

            I like these laws, don’t like these laws, will enforce grass grazing making criminals of ornery ranchers, but will not enforce laws against repeat illegal immigrants, letting massive numbers of people break the law.

            Harry Reid said something about we can’t let Americans go around breaking the law with no consequences.

            I guess he really did mean “Americans”, and not illegal immigrant non-Americans.

          • Ray in VT

            Perhaps you have missed the record number of deportations under Obama. Funny how upset people get when some anti-government nut gets acted against after stealing from the taxpayers for 20 years. What a hero. I loved his philosophizing about “the negro”, by the way.

  • Ed75

    I invite everyone to put aside these unsolvable problems for a day and watch the canonization from Rome on Sunday, it will be wonderful and very beautiful.

    • JS

      Yes, I hope they review which rules were changed to allow these canonizations.

      • Ed75

        It’s interesting, John Paul changed the rules so Mother Teresa’s cause could be started five years after her death (it was 50). And then Pope Benedict allowed John Paul’s cause to begin right after his death. It’s up to the pope, he is the only one who can alter the rules, and he does have that authority. Why changed? Perhaps we don’t have 50 years to wait. And perhaps we need to make strong statements about sanctity now.

        • JS

          Why changed? For good PR.

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    Heard in an Atlanta elementary school:
    Cover me, Billy. I’m going to get a chocolate milk.

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    Aide: President Putin, our grand army is out of ammunition and the soldiers can’t be paid!
    Putin: How could this be? We have the finest fighting force on earth.
    Aide: President Obama canceled our VISA accounts.

  • Jacob Clark

    My wife hates Russia and Putin. Meanwhile I studied the Roman Empire in college. I love the Napoleonic wars. So now I’m sitting here with popcorn in my lap waiting to see what happens next.

    • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

      Check out the Sergei Bondarchuk 1966 film, War and Peace. Hoober Doober

    • hennorama

      Jacob Clark — do you also enjoy spectating at auto accidents?

  • AC

    what happened with russian internal disgruntlement over the money mis-managed for the olympics?

    • hennorama

      AC — Russian President Putin is using the “wag the dog” approach, distracting Russians from legitimate economic and corruption concerns by inflaming public opinion about Ukraine.

  • Coastghost

    War would be politically expedient for the Democrats as Nov 2014 looms? as Nov 2016 looms?

    • anamaria23

      If the Democrats wanted war, they sure passed up some good opportunities lately.

  • Guest

    file:///Users/peterparsons/Pictures/iPhoto%20Library.photolibrary/Masters/2014/04/23/20140423-155329/10150712_793839403960928_7780656186343473865_n.jpg

  • William

    Tom, do you have Carl’s number on your speed dial?

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    Corporations will no longer be required to obey traffic laws and regulations. You know, anything we can do to help.
    –Jon Roberts & His Old Boy Net

  • Coastghost

    Did Justice O’Connor not predict a scant handful of years ago that the days of affirmative action were numbered?

    • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

      And she’s a woman! So much for that special perspective women are supposed to possess.

    • Diane Samples Samples

      O’Connor said it was her party that was ruining the country. The SCOTUS has undone so much of her wonderful “doing”

  • BostonLiberal

    Tom, you ask whether what the White House says is respected these days. The question is whether there has been a time when a US president has ever controlled foreign events by simple giving speeches. If this was the case then all these hot spots would not be an issue right now. This is not an Obama problem, it is Americans who think there was a time when the US controlled events overseas by simply giving speeches, that is not true.

  • OnPointComments

    The caller thinks the 6-2 Supreme Court ruling is about the South? States that ban affirmative action are: Michigan, California, Florida, Washington, Arizona, Nebraska, Oklahoma and New Hampshire. Hardly the Old Confederacy.

    • Salty

      …but wait – aren’t the racists the southern Republicans? I am so confused…..

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    They meant Adolph Gandhi. The younger brother, not such a nice fellow.

  • Ed75

    Of course the issue isn’t about his views on race but on federal rights and overstepping. One Judge feels that the federal government shouldn’t own this land at all.

    • JS

      But they do, and he owes the money, shouldn’t he pay?

      • Ed75

        Yes, probably so. (They should avoid a war if possible, though.)

    • Ray in VT

      “One Judge feels that the federal government shouldn’t own this land at all.” Who cares? The government has and does own it, whether or not Mr. Bundy recognizes that the federal government exists, and he has been using public property, and profiting off of it, in violation of the law.

      • Ed75

        Yes, he does owe the money. But they probably shouldn’t start a war over it. His race comments didn’t help him.

  • AC

    what is the rationale for free govt grass for him and belittling welfare people? i’m confused…

    • hennorama

      AC — logic is obviously not Mr. Bundy’s strong suit.

    • Government_Banking_Serf

      Ok, so finally we are agreed we are opposed to too much welfare. At least for white tea party types. Affirmative action? Reverse?

      I’m confused.

      • John Cedar

        It gets worse…his cattle are also breathing free government air.

        • Steve__T

          He doesn’t believe in the Fed Gov. It doesn’t exist.

    • Salty

      …so send in the SWAT team to deliver the audit request for the IRS and then expect the folks to respect the government. Yep – that’ll work.

  • hennorama

    Scofflaw rancher Cllven Bundy was recorded making several despicable remarks about “the Negro” (yes, that’s the term he used), and supporters of this racist old coot have been scurrying away like proverbial rats from a sinking ship.

    Sean Hannity seems to think he’s a victim of Mr. Bundy, despite Hannity’s shameless promotion and coverage of this lawbreaker. From HuffPo:

    Hannity said he was angry Thursday because people who “for the right reasons saw this case as government overreach now are like branded because of the ignorant, racist, repugnant, despicable comments of Cliven Bundy.”

    Notice the cattle ranching metaphor, “branded”?

    After all, no one could have possibly predicted that someone like Cliven Bundy, who does not recognize Federal authority, ignores multiple court rulings against him, and promotes armed individuals being arrayed against law enforcement, might also hold some other wacko beliefs, right?

    Poor, poor Mr. Hannity.

    Source:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/24/sean-hannity-cliven-bundy-fox-news_n_5206516.html

    • Ray in VT

      Yes, who would have guessed?

      • hennorama

        Ray in VT — I’m guessing that production of all “The World According To Clive”-ish films, books, plays, TV shows, etc., has come to a screeching halt.

        Poor, poor producers, writers and actors. They’re the real victims here.

        OTOH, this is full employment for comedy writers, at least briefly.

    • HonestDebate1

      That is so shallow but typical. You two are fellow racist but that doesn’t mean you endorse his stance on the grazing fiasco. His racism is unrelated to the issue that the country was focused on. That it is being juxtaposed is the sad part of his diatribe. Brettearle even compared him to mass murderer Ted Bundy before this came out. Now the shallow will have a field day as if there is some connection. It’s crazy.

    • pete18

      I will preface my comments with a disclaimer, I haven’t been following the Bundy story too closely, only the headlines and the gestalt of the comments from both sides.

      However, the reality that Bundy seems to be a racist or has broken the law doesn’t mean that he or his supporters are wrong about his position vs the feds or that their actions and responses aren’t something to be worried about in terms of how our government works. People broke the law when they resisted segregation and being a vile person doesn’t mean that your positions are automatically wrong.

      Again, there may be other arguments that would make Bundy and his supporters on the wrong side of the cattle fence, I don’t yet know enough to have a dog in this fight, but the law breaking and racist thing isn’t a valid argument against.

      • HonestDebate1

        Bingo.

        • John Cedar

          If he had just referred to NYC as hymietown, he could still be a martyr and his son could be elected in chicago.

          • OnPointComments

            Or if he had referred to being light-skinned and speaking without a negro dialect, he might be senate majority leader.

      • hennorama

        pete18 – TYFYR.

        Your disclaimer is appreciated for its frank admission that you may not have all the relevant information, which is rather rare “in here.”

        You seem to have inferred that I think that being a vile person and/or a racist means you are automatically wrong about everything. That is not the case.

        You also seem to have inferred that I think being a lawbreaker and a scofflaw means you are automatically wrong about everything. That is not the case.

        Please correct any misinterpretations.

        As a way of increasing mutual understanding, will you expand on what Mr. Bundy and his supporters might be right about?

        Thanks again for your response.

        • pete18

          Yes, I did infer that given your comments but I was mostly using your post to make a general statement about the issue in response to the general “gotcha” attacks here and elsewhere in regards to Bundy’s
          statements and the law issue, which has been raised several times.

          As I already said, I’m not well enough versed in the details or history of this case to make an argument for or against Bundy, only pointing out that the racist and law breaking aspects would not be the definitive points in determining the righteousness of his cause.

          • hennorama

            pete18 – TYAFYR.

            Your candor is appreciated, and I hope you now have a greater understanding as to the points I have made, which are:

            Mr. Bundy is a scofflaw.

            Mr. Bundy’s ongoing activities, specifically, grazing cattle that he and/or his family owns on Federal land without a permit, and without paying for the privilege, and after multiple adverse court rulings, is similar to a tenant not paying their landlord, then continuing to occupy the rental property, and calling in some well-armed friends to “stare down” members of law enforcement when they try to evict the tenant.

            Mr. Bundy has made several despicable remarks about “the Negro.”

            Mr. Bundy is a racist old coot.

            No one should be surprised that Mr. Bundy holds other extreme views, in addition to his lack of recognition of Federal authority.

            Supporters of Mr. Bundy have been scurrying away like proverbial rats from a sinking ship.

            Sean Hannity thinks he is a victim of Mr. Bundy.

            I would invite you to read more about the issues, and then return with your views on what Mr. Bundy and his supporters might be right about, assuming you find anything that would fit that description. You might also delineate exactly what “his cause” might be, as you understand it, and how it might have any “righteousness.”

      • jefe68

        He’s a scofflaw. What about all the ranchers that play by the rules? What about them?
        The rights hubris on this speaks volumes.
        Bundy’s use of language is insulting and is racially charged.

        • pete18

          Ghandi and Martin Luther King were also scofflaws, this whole country was founded by scofflaws, that in itself isn’t
          what makes Bundy right or wrong.

          “Bundy’s use of language is insulting and is racially charged.”

          Evidence of him being a dislikeable jerk or worse but not necessarily wrong.

          “The rights hubris on this speaks volumes.”

          Speaks volumes about what?

      • Government_Banking_Serf

        We don’t walk and chew gum here.

        All the babies are in a pile down in the bathwater puddle.

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    The Battle Hymn of Clive Bundy

    Mine eyes have seen the conclave of the stupid and the sad
    To say they stand for honor is to make them less than bad
    As we wonder why these clunkers can’t find jobs let’s not be glad
    These dinks could be our kin.
    Glory..

  • brettearle

    This caller is obsessed with the issue of Racism.

    Conservative politics does not always include an undercurrent of Racism.

    But it can.

    Racism is a literal obsession, these days–more than ever.

    It is a very serious problem–but if we become obsessed with it, we lose dramatic objectivity and run past issues, generally, that need to be addressed with great and greater scrutiny.

    • Government_Banking_Serf

      Yes. I recall it did in Dem circles for quite a while as well.

      Conflation and broad brush smearing is so fun and easy. We could go on forever and never address anything of substance!

      • brettearle

        On the other hand, there is NO question that the Obama Presidency has brought out untold undercurrents of subtle and even overt racism.

        • Government_Banking_Serf

          I’m sure it has, in a largely dwindling and inconsequential minority, that does NOT define any party or political-economic ideology being explored today.

          • John Cedar

            Racism has come to be such an all encompassing term, that it is virtually meaningless.
            But if you include every nuance that the meaning currently has, I have no doubt in my mind that Obama has benefited more from racism than he has been harmed from it.

    • Human2013

      I’m a “mulatto,” but this term is antiquated. I have European and African heritage and as hard as I have tried, i’ve never been able to determine at what line of long/lattitude where the caucasion race begins and the negroid race ends — maybe there is no such thing. Maybe the sun changes our skin after thousands of years in the sun. I think I’ll go tanning now.

  • Government_Banking_Serf

    Too bad Greenspan under the influence of Clinton and all the Wall St Cronies had to go and abandon his sound money and libertarian roots and become the mother of all Keynesians….

    David Stockman Blasts “America’s Housing Fiasco Is On You, Alan Greenspan”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-22/david-stockman-blasts-americas-housing-fiasco-you-alan-greenspan

    Or are we supposed to have forgotten that old hat news of the biggest financial swindle/disaster of modern times, and the continued Zero Accountability posture of the current administration?

    • Jill122

      You have completely misread Stockman. It may be because you come from the position that our recession was the fault of the borrowers rather than the lenders. I tried working it that way in my head, but I still could not come to the conclusion that libertarian monetary policy would have saved us or that Keynesian policy (which even Stockman said that Greenspan went far beyond) was at fault.

      In fact, Greenspan balleyhooed a policy of cheap and easy money for borrowers which they used for vacations and other non-material purchases coupled with = out and out cheating (called liars loans) by mortgage brokers who bundled the paper, paid S&P to rate it AAA (when in fact they were a very mixed bag) sold it to clients (like big pension funds controlled by states, counties, cities and of course foreign banks) for far more than it was worth and then insured itself against losses with AIG.

      I grant you one point: Glass Steagall should not have been breached and it was overturned under Clinton (thanks to Senator Gramm). It was a horrible move and we should be reversing it now. Please write to your congresscritters and ask them to reinstate it post-haste.

      • John Cedar

        There was plenty of blame to go around.
        There was the gambling lenders
        There was the lying borrowers
        There was the lying loan originators

        There was the bond raters
        There was a government that did not enforce the laws that existed

        and at the same time eliminated laws that should not be eliminated.
        And there was a court system and government that lowered the bar for loans.
        Stockman is a dolt in a golden cage.

        • Government_Banking_Serf

          Can you expand on your Stockman opinion? He seems like a DC creature finding a niche, but what about his thesis don’t you buy? thanks.

          • John Cedar

            I am a harsh judge of the gold standard proponents. I got a kick out
            of him telling us how easy it was to do what Mitt did and then going bankrupt when he tried it and getting indicted to boot.

            There are a lot of huge factors for rising housing prices. Mainly the cost of building them. The Federal funds rate has been lower with Obama, than even Greenspan had it. So wheres the rising housing prices?
            Regardless of the supply of money, housing defaults were mostly an underwriting due diligence problem.

  • Scott B

    The Roberts court clearly has no idea how people and corporations act in the real world. One justice said, when asked about how the Citizens United decision was clearly opened the flood gates to the massive spending by Big Biz, (paraphrased), “We knew that they could do what they did we just didn’t think they’d do it.” Have they cracked a history book? Have they watched the news? Have they met lobbyists?

    “The problem with the Republican party is they deny fact, history, science and experience.” – Norm Ornstein, Republican, member of the American Enterprise Institute (conservative think tank), and co-author of “It’s Even Worse Than It Looks: How the American Constitutional System Collided With the New Politics of Extremism” with Thomas Mann

    • Jill122

      I think the Court is standing on its own “legitimacy” button. It was the one institution that we all respected to one degree or another. We might not agree, but we didn’t take to the streets.

      (Dear Court, just because both sides are complaining doesn’t mean that you’ve found the balance. You’re supposed to be looking for truth through the lens of reality.)

      If inability to tie the results of their cases to the real world (Citizens, McCutcheon) is because they don’t live in the real world, then I’d like to suggest they get out a little more. Hint: $1.00 per one vote is not democracy.

      If it’s the voter’s fault that we can’t tell truth from a lie because there are more liars than gullible, I believe the Constitution sides with the gullible.

      • Scott B

        It’s funny that my 6yo kid will look at me, after doing something I should have known she was going to do that ticked me off, and say “Have you met me?”, yet the SCOTUS can’t grasp the same basic concept that my 6yo does.

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    My right to own a handgun ends when the projectile enters your forehead. Unless I was standing on someone’s ground.
    –Jon Roberts & His Old Boy Net

  • Human2013

    Gotta love Lupita! The combination of a beautiful mind, soul and face.

    • hennorama

      Human2013 — … and talent, which is why we now know so much about her.

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    -10 = you
    +10 = Chase Bank
    Sum: -10 + 10 = 0
    That’s net neutrality.
    –Your FCC/You Court System/Your Government

  • Jill122

    I live in Savannah, GA. Please promise yourself

    • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

      Tip: wear body armor. Hoober Doober

      • Jill122

        Hint: don’t spend your money here. the NRA wants to arm everyone all the time. It’s not the america that the majority wants.

        Fear is a trait of the frail of mind and body.

    • hennorama

      Jill122 — Savannah is a wonderful place to visit.

      • Jill122

        It WAS a wonderful place to visit. If you’re looking for by-gone charm, go to Charleston. I know the roads are terrible, they turned down shovel-ready $$$ preferring to pay out millions to those who continue to sue because of auto damage. Nevetheless, at least all of them don’t arm themselves everywhere all the time.

        • hennorama

          Jill122 — Thank you for your response.

          Upon reflection, please allow a revision:

          My visit to Savannah was wonderful.

    • Salty

      …or, they support personal liberty. Don’t like – move or don’t pass through.

  • Joachim110

    I think we need only to look at Libya to see that a country awash with Guns creates a failing country. Militias that kill and take hostages and use Guns to get their way. Our politicians should careful think if the advertising for the NRA and the mindless support for more Guns is creating a society that may at some stage threaten the very existance of these politicians.

    • Government_Banking_Serf

      What nonsense are you talking about? You think we are going to have guns blazing, hostage taking militia madness here?

      Politicians who want to sell off more and more of our liberty and sovereignty for votes and cronyism SHOULD be held accountable at the voting both, and at some point tar and feathering etc.

      Follow the Constitution, Balance the Budget, Live and Let live and no problem.

      The problem with your dystopian view is we actually have a Constitutional Self Governance System and Rule of Law system, even though most citizens don’t even know what it means these days and why it should make us different than Libya (exceptionalism- not people- the system).

      But lets get stoned and knee jerk against “liberty-types”, that’ll end well.

      • Government_Banking_Serf

        What you SHOULD fear, are the precedents being set for IGNORING Rule of Law in this and the Bush administration, such that when a truly ill-intentioned person gets in the White House they simply decree that laws AGAINST militia violence and hostage taking or whatever, are suddenly no longer to be enforced, by decree.

      • nj_v2

        [[ Follow the Constitution, Balance the Budget, Live and Let live and no problem. ]]

        It’s so easy! We can all go home now.

        When do i get my pony?

        • Government_Banking_Serf

          As opposed to……..?

          More Central Banking fiascos, Wars of Adventurism, NSA spying and growing civil division?

          Easy? Get back to me when we try it.

        • jimino

          Aren’t you supposed to capitalize the first letter of Pony?

    • Salty

      …or the country of Switzerland being awash with guns. those Swiss, they are a crazy lot – shooting everything up and killing everyone and all that…

      • Joachim110

        No but in the US you have a range of people that are also not as educated as the swiss. Remember, Guns and Religion but in the south they get this wrong all the time

        • Government_Banking_Serf

          Feel free to share the stats on all the shooting rampages by dumb southerners.

          That is some breathtaking, insulting arrogance, combined with a fact-free implication.

          I dare you to call the people who are the vast majority of gun violence perpetrators “dumb”.

        • Salty

          So, you are assuming the average gun owner in America is less educated than the Swiss? When I was in Switzerland i didn’t see that. How would we know that?

          Do you have a problem with religion? With guns? With Southerners? Probably some deep-seated issue there.

    • twenty_niner

      Guns have been ingrained in American culture since the country’s inception. Not to long ago, kids routinely carried firearms to school as shooting was a popular school and after-school activity.

      • Joachim110

        And you see what it ends up with out children gunned down. We are not more in the civil war and it is time to stop generating revenue for the NRA. The right to bear guns ends where the safety and security of citizens are in jeopardy.

        • twenty_niner

          Gun ownership has actually been declining among households. You wouldn’t know it from listening to the whack pack.

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    I hope one day the Russians invade the other Georgia. That’ll paint their wagons. {with lead}

    • Jill122

      They already did that under GW Bush. Please try to keep up.

    • Ray in VT

      They already have a couple hundred thousands troops in the mountains there.

    • John Cedar

      The other Georgia being the one they didn’t already invade?
      Or being the one that is not the subject of this Week in the News?

  • Dab200

    Georgia will not get my travel money any more, just crossed it off my map!

    • Jill122

      Hooray! That’s the way to change things. The legislators don’t listen to us. They’ll definitely pay attention to your $$$$. They need it to dredge the port that will of course completely destroy the Savannah River and which will still wind up being 4 inches too high for the “Panamanized” ships.

    • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

      Go one better: boycott flights that originate in, terminate in, or pass over Georgia.

      • Jill122

        Say good-bye to Delta — but that’s not a bad thing either. Hartsfield is no picnic unless you love O’Hare and want to repeat the “pleasure.”

    • TyroneJ

      The Georgia law is a stupid political stunt to pander to the Georgia voters of little real impact. But other than illustrating your opposition to Democracy, what is it you want to show?

    • Salty

      I am sure the good folks of GA will be fine with that. You should have the liberty to make that choice.

    • StilllHere

      I’ve resolved to spend double.

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    No end to settlements.
    –Israel

    No recognition of a Jewish state. Ever.
    –Palestine {and the rest of the world}

    Sounds fair to me. Move on.

  • http://hlb-engineering.us/ HLB

    The problem with our media is the continuing echo of Washington tropes that not only aren’t the reality of the situation but are never going to be that reality. Israel and Palestine having two separate sovereign states, one of which will be a recognized Jewish one, is never, ever going to happen. But the media trumpets the wishes of the White House. I suppose until the end of time.

  • Salty

    So much of what we are hearing today reflects on liberty.

    A few thoughts:
    The modern day plantation is the welfare state. Feed the masses so they don’t question and don’t even see the shackles. The light of liberty and self determination can be harsh at times but it points the way. (For those who don’t get the imagery, hiring and admission should be by merit only, race should not be a factor. For those who need more help, I am talking about affirmative action.)

    The “gun thing” — 2nd amendment. Do gooder-elites with armed guards telling me where I can carry my gun? Perhaps I would consider their view if they agreed not to leave their armed protection aside everywhere they don’t want me to carry my gun. States rights – if you don’t like guns, move to a state wit tight restrictions. Want to be around guns – move to a state that allows more freedom. Let’s see how the people vote with their moving vans.
    On a personal note – I don’t have a gun nor do I want one. But I am a proponent of liberty. Also – the problem isn’t mass shootings as tragic as they are, they are extremely rare. I don’t believe the nut cases (they must be “crazy’) would actually look to see a sign that say “no guns allowed” and think – “That’s the place I will shoot up.” The problem is street violence and “normal crime”. A street thug knowing that that car they want to jack may contain and armed driver might think twice. The street thugs aren’t the nuts – the mass killers are.

    When the folks see the relentless march of government growth (IRS, Obamacare, Benghazi silence, Mass public spying, park service blocking the views from non park land of monuments during the shutdown, military style “police” swooping in on a ranch and basically laying siege to collect debt… … … I could go on and on…) it is natural for push back towards liberty.

    • Government_Banking_Serf

      Sadly the knee-jerk response of most “progressives” against “liberty” is making the necessary pendulum swing very difficult and rancorous.

  • Salty

    Liberty is not racism. Subservience to the “Man” is. (Think who is on the receiving end of so much federal “aid”. The welfare sate are the velvet chains of the plantation.) Now try to line that up with the modern political parties… The conclusion is clear.

    • hennorama

      Salty — “The conclusion is clear,” huh?

      Please, tell us more.

      • Salty

        Some of the left push the welfare state to secure a block of voters that won’t deviate from voting for those that support increased welfare paid for by others. — Who would vote against be given “stuff” that others are forced to pay for? Hope that helps.

        • hennorama

          Salty — Thank you for you response.

          Please, tell us more about exactly who these “some on the left” are.

          Please also specify exactly which “block of voters … won’t deviate from voting for those that support increased welfare paid for by others…”

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Do you ever tire of the obtuse schtick?

            On the Salty’s matter, the Obamaphone lady says it all:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dygHDr6vpE

          • HonestDebate1

            That’s a hoot!

            To add: Why do I get the feeling you will be called a racist for posting it?

          • hennorama

            WftC — TYFYR.

            [Salty] indicated “The conclusion is clear.”

            If it is so “clear,” then elucidating said conclusion should be simple. If this “clear” conclusion cannot withstand a request for explanation, perhaps it is not actually “clear.”

            As an aside, you might want to post a profanity warning about the video clip you have selected.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            FYI, I changed the video to one with without profanity.

          • hennorama

            WftC — TYFYR.

          • HonestDebate1

            Once you upload a video (or image) it’s there and cannot be removed. It’s still there. Personally I think the vulgarity of the left should be seen for what it is.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            I could be wrong but I think if you refresh the browser then the video is removed. I changed the Obamaphone video from a ‘remix’ to a Glenn Beck video.

          • HonestDebate1

            It’s still here on my end but you do have to click “see more” to see it.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Hey, you are right. Looks like a disqus bug.

            I re-edited my post — and the ‘remix’ was OUTSIDE the edit window with no reference to the source. I deleted the Beck video and saved it and ‘remix’ was still there — again no source link. I edited again — adding back in Beck and now ‘remix’ is gone. Strange.

          • HonestDebate1

            I once accidentally posted an image of me and could not undo it. I quietly let time erase it.

            Actually Hennorama had a point about a content warning but her schoolmarminess is so annoying that I felt compelled to ask the question. I also assume we are all big boys and girls here so I don’t think it’s really that big of a deal. And again coming from someone who has posted some very vulgar innuendo for all to see it just deserved some pushback.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Wow. Talk about a feeling of helplessness.

            I had actually attempted to replace ‘remix’ with ‘beck’ before hennorama’s admonition but not because of cussing but simply because I thought it was better in the context of this thread.

          • HonestDebate1

            The first video did push the envelop and we must feel comfortable with what we post but again, I think it illustrated the vulgarity of the left well.

          • hennorama

            WftC — please pardon the interjection.

            My apologies if you interpreted my writing “As an aside, you might want to post a profanity warning …” as an “admonition,” at least if you connoted it as having some negative intent. My intent was simply to virtually tap you on the shoulder, and to suggest that you consider a “hey folks, there’s an MF-bomb ahead” disclaimer, in case some might find it offensive.

            Just as a courtesy, and nothing more.

            Again, my apologies for any negative connotation you may have inferred, as none was intended.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Even if President Obama is the one uttering the MF-bomb? :)

            No need for an apology. It was a helpful suggestion — and if I could get disqus to work it wouldn’t have been necessary.

          • hennorama

            WftC — TYFYR.

            The speaker rarely matters to those who might find such language offensive.

            Regardless, that we understand each other was my goal, and it was clearly met.

            Thanks again.

          • HonestDebate1

            Where would this blog be without your telling people what to post and what not to post as if you owned the place?

          • jimino

            No one on this site is prevented by hennorama, or anyone else, from lying and showing their ignorance and stupidity.

          • hennorama

            jimino — thanks for the mention, and the complete spelling of my moniker.

            That said, please don’t discourage the individual to whom you replied from posting further sanctimonious screeds, as I find them to be endlessly amusing.

          • HonestDebate1

            You call my comments sanctimonious?! I’m not the one telling people what to post and what not to post. I’m not the one screaming victory after positing irrelevant questions that go unanswered. I’m not the admitted racist lecturing people on race.

          • Ray in VT

            Correct. You’re the one citing white supremacist “research”, who lectures people on race and who screams victory, even when the facts are clearly against you.

          • hennorama

            Ray in VT — please, don’t discourage him from posting. I need to get my laughter from a “reliable source,” yanno.

          • HonestDebate1

            You can keep saying that but it doesn’t make it true. Read the awesomely resourced book “White Girl Bleed A Lot” for all the evidence you want. Calling the author a white supremacist is shallow, untrue and sick. Get a clue and while you’re at it, a sense of shame for your despicable tactics. Let it go, why do you keep injecting irrelevancies? I made the case regarding her sanctimonious self, address that before you pin ball back to your fantasy filled freak show.

            All you are doing is giving Henny the vehicle to bravely and obliquely reply to me with some kind of silly reverse psychology thing. I don’t care about any of that. I will continue to call’um as I see’um. I’m happy to let my comments speak for themselves. And I truly enjoy not having to follow the henpecker’s henpecking because of her total and complete surrender to honest debate.

          • Ray in VT

            Yeah, “awesomely resourced”. Putting together every instance that one can dig up of black people attacking white people makes for great anecdotal “evidence”, and one can dupe a fair number of dopes that way, but anyone who knows enough to read the research done by scholars who don’t push their views on racist radio programs isn’t so easily fooled. Of course, for people like you, who have problems even understanding the explanatory notes in DOJ tables, it’s “awesome”.

            Any time you want to stop pushing the racist “research” that you like to read feel free. It is sick, shameful and despicable, but that, along with lies, is just Honestdebate1′s approach #1 for “honest debate”.

          • HonestDebate1

            Yadda yadda.

          • Ray in VT

            That’s sick.

          • HonestDebate1

            It was just a question. She is free to be the schoolmarm.

          • JS

            What’s an Obamaphone? Did this program exist prior to Obama? If so, why are you bearing false witness?

          • HonestDebate1

            The program did not exist as it is now before Obama.

            “The Federal Communications Commission oversees the so-called Lifeline program, created in 1984 to make sure impoverished Americans had telephone service available to call their moms, bosses, and 911. In 2008, the FCC expanded the program to offer subsidized cell-phone service, and since then, the expenses of running the program have soared. In 2012, the program’s costs had risen to $2.189 billion, up from $822 million before wireless carriers were included. As of June, there were 13.8 million active Lifeline subscriptions.”

            http://www.nationalreview.com/article/354867/me-and-my-obamaphones-jillian-kay-melchior

          • jimino

            Good point, I pay a lot more for my cell phone than I do for my land line. Is that what you’re figures are intended to show? I wonder how many of those subscribers are veterans?

          • HonestDebate1

            No.

          • Ray in VT

            Damn Woodrow Wilson for his program and damn George Bush for expanding it to cover cell phones. But we can just go and hate on Obama for it all.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Obama supporters first started calling them Obamaphones.

            And yes, Bush made mistakes.

          • Ray in VT

            And who has been beating it like the Benghazi conspiracy dead horses that it is ever since? I also don’t see you rejecting either of my points.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Sigh. Just because I don’t ‘argue’ doesn’t mean an endorsement. Woodrow Wilson? Really?

            No, the real question is what was done to reign in Obamaphone fraud and waste once it was uncovered. Forget conspiracies — where is the leadership?

          • HonestDebate1

            I would assume that when we finally get some answers regarding Benghazi we will quit beating the horse which is alive and well. Where was Obama that night? Who changed the talking points to insist it was a video when the preponderance of evidence said it was a terrorist attack? Did Hillary really get drunk and bump her noggin so she could delay testimony? Inquiring minds want to know.

          • Ray in VT

            Not being able to “prove” the plethora of idiotic right-wing conspiracy theories and such is not not getting answers. It’s not getting the answers that you want. I have little proof that those pushing such nonsense have much in the way of minds.

          • HonestDebate1

            You should be ashamed of yourself.

          • Ray in VT

            Why? For not being some knuckle dragging dupe who will believe Rush’s lies but not the dictionary? Any day.

          • HonestDebate1

            No, for idiocy like what you just wrote.

          • Ray in VT

            No, just the idiocy that you write that I point out. I am ashamed for your amazing lack of both knowledge and sense. It is sad really, but perhaps to be expected.

          • jefe68

            It’s a comprehension issue, and I dare say it’s getting worse.

          • hennorama

            Ray in VT — “I don’t know and I don’t care what the dictionary says.”
            – GS R-O-M.

          • HonestDebate1

            You forgot to add that if Salty doesn’t answer your silly questions then you will read that as a sign of surrender and scream victory from the mountain tops.

          • jefe68

            Oh, you mean as you do and did to Ray from Vermont.

          • Ray in VT

            Of course, that is honest debate. Just rail against and ignore the dictionary and declare victory. It’s a debate tactic championed by all of the top debate clubs in the country.

          • HonestDebate1

            Au contraire. I think I know what you are referring to and it did not include an unanswered question as is with Hen’s tired worn out MO.

            It was his requested for but ignored evidence which refuted the relevant topic in the arena of ideas. You guys have the nuance of jackhammers.

            And he took the bait and ended up looking silly. VICTORY!!!!!!

          • Ray in VT

            I’m sorry that I can’t refute whether or not the economist Thomas Piketty is a wuss. The arena of ideas indeed.

          • HonestDebate1

            I don’t think you read the summary I provided.

          • Ray in VT

            Why? Was there some other name calling that I missed? I’m sure that ole Rushbo really dug through that historical data so as to be conversant on the matter.

          • jefe68

            Victory of what? That in your warped small mindedness you won something?

          • Salty

            I may have given too much credit to the readership here so let me be even more explicit.

            The Democratic party has a lock on the voters that receive welfare. The welfare I am referring to consists of foodstamps, rental assistance (section 8 housing), medical care (medicaid), free pones, free health insurance… This includes legals and illegals. This is not about race – I have experiences with people of all races live on government support paid for by others. I will stop there but could go on and on…

            Now, I said some, because there are probably some on the left who believe that the aid should be temporary and limited.

            Are there some types of aid that the “rich” get? Probably. (Crop subsidies, crazy tax breaks…) I would stop those as well.

          • hennorama

            Salty – Thank you for your responses. I will consolidate my replies to both of them here.

            Your phrasing, “voters that receive welfare,” and “those who receive welfare type support,” implies the qualifier “currently,” i.e., “voters that [currently] receive welfare.” This would be in contrast to “voters that [have ever] receive[d] welfare.”

            Please correct any misinterpretation.

            Thank you also for anticipating the question as to your definition of “welfare,” as that term has been redefined by heritage.org and others, to include job training, child care, various veterans programs, energy assistance, student aid, community development, etc., etc.

            You commanded me to “Look it up.” Using the search term (without quotation marks) “Most of those who receive welfare type support vote Democrat,” one finds the following, none of which are “On Point”:

            DECEMBER 18, 2012 A Bipartisan Nation of Beneficiaries. FTA:

            The survey also finds that most Democrats (60%) and Republicans (52%) say they have benefited from a major entitlement program at some point in their lives. So have nearly equal shares of self-identifying conservatives (57%), liberals (53%) and moderates (53%).

            AND

            The Demographics of Entitlements

            The beneficiaries of entitlements span the social, political and economic spectrum. But some group differences do emerge. Women are more likely than men to have received an entitlement benefit (61% vs. 49%). Blacks (64%) are somewhat more likely than whites (56%) or Hispanics (50%) to have gotten federal help of this kind.

            Rural residents also have disproportionately benefited from these entitlements (62%), compared with urban (54%) or suburban (53%) dwellers.

            While the two parties are sharply divided over entitlement spending, the differences in the proportions of Republicans and Democrats who have received entitlements is fairly modest: 60% of Democrats, 52% of Republicans and 53% of independents have benefited from one of these six major classes of federal entitlement programs.

            And when the lens shifts to political ideology, the survey finds virtually no difference in the share of conservatives (57%), liberals (53%) or political moderates (53%) who have been assisted by at least one entitlement program.

            Taken together, the last two findings help explain another result. In the recent presidential election, about six-in-ten (59%) of those who say they voted for President Obama had received entitlement benefits—and so had 53% of those who supported Republican challenger Mitt Romney.

            See:

            http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2012/12/18/a-bipartisan-nation-of-beneficiaries/

            And this, also from the Pew Research Center:

            JULY 12, 2013 The politics and demographics of food stamp recipients FTA:

            Democrats are about twice as likely as Republicans to have received food stamps at some point in their lives—a participation gap that echoes the deep partisan divide in the U.S. House of Representatives, which on Thursday produced a farm bill that did not include funding for the food stamp program.

            AND

            But when the political lens shifts from partisanship to ideology, the participation gap vanishes. Self-described political conservatives were no more likely than liberals or moderates to have received food stamps (17% for each group), according to the survey.

            See:
            http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/07/12/the-politics-and-demographics-of-food-stamp-recipients/

            As this search was not successful in demonstrating the validity of your claims, that “Most of those who receive welfare type support vote Democrat” and “The Democratic party has a lock on the voters that receive welfare,” please point me to the evidence that supports your claims.

            Assuming any such evidence exists, and that you can locate it, of course.

            Thanks again for your response.

        • Jill122

          People accept food stamps because they don’t have enough money to eat. Why? Because they aren’t being paid a livable wage. There are a variety of reasons that contribute to that fact including mediocre education.

          Certainly racism was and is at the core of an unequal system of education. Now, of course, it’s not just racism. The war is between the wealthy and the poor and middle class. The black and brown poor are at the bottom of the rung. NEXT — poor whites.

          Freebies in our society go to the wealthy, both in actual dollars and percentage of the give-aways.

          What the poor actually get is a very small percentage of all the money that the government gives away, starting with the billions given each year to the fossil fuel developers. Pls do your homework on these issues. You insult yourself bringing such childish arguments to this board.

          • jefe68

            I think it’s telling how many likes that inane comment received.

          • Salty

            There are far more welfare recipients voting than CEOs of petrochemical companies. Don’t worry – I always do my homework. Thanks for your concern though.

          • Jill122

            Money spent in politics has great returns, particularly with people of your persuasion. Plenty of studies prove it. Occasionally a rich person will lose but that’s because they are personally so disgusting that they couldn’t win the race with only one entrant.

            Clearly you don’t believe a word of what progressives and/or democrats have to say. So we know how you’re going to vote. The big money folks have convinced you and many others to vote against your own economic interests, and frankly that’s all they want. The rest — abortion, big gubmint, cheers for a scofflaw, etc. — is just to keep the slurry moving. The Kulture Klashes get folks up out of their basements and into the voting lines.

            Your point is that democrats are keeping the poor coming back for freebies. That may be true in some cases. I suspect they’d say they vote democratic because that’s where they have gotten the fairest shake. But then I don’t believe that people want to be poor, I don’t believe they want to be on the receiving end of food stamps and other help. I believe they share the american dream — that same dream that motivates others to get up go out, get a good job and raise a good family.

            You on the other hand, believe that’s not true. The poor simply don’t share those american values and don’t share the american dream. They grow up wanting freebies and will take as long as someone gives and if you just stop feeding them they’ll find a job. Do you know that welfare is capped after 5 years? Do you know that food stamp eligibility is determined at the state level? So is Medicaid, so is heating assistance? Telephones too determined at the state level. People fill out a form and the STATE determines who is eligible. Of course, blue states are pretty good — red states (most of them are) are stingy to a fault. In GA one cannot earn over $3500 or they are not eligible for Medicaid. Did you even know that?

            BTW, that old canard that 47% don’t pay taxes was a lie when Mittens said it and it’s still a lie today. Everyone pays SS, Medicare. Everyone pays for property taxes whether you’re an owner or a renter (you don’t think the owner accepts the bill and doesn’t pass it along do you??????). Everyone pays sales tax — THE most regressive tax ever imagined by the wealthy. And poor people pay a much larger percentage of their take-home pay in taxes than the wealthy will ever pay.

          • Salty

            So many issues, so little time…

            A few points:
            1. How do you know what I “clearly” believe or not?
            2. There are far more voters who are dependent on welfare than rich who give large amounts to politicians. (Remember the “1%”?
            3. I know of many people who are fine to not work so long as the money keeps freebies keep coming in…
            4. I didn’t say all Democrats – I just think some on the left…
            5. I realize there are other taxes that folks pay other than income taxes. So do most people I am aware of.
            6. What “persuasion” am I?
            7. If property taxes are passed on as a cost of doing business is that not a support of the idea that businesses don’t pay tax, people do?
            8. What’s a Mitten?
            9. I am not aware of all of the laws in GA. Should I be?
            10. You know my economic interests? Perhaps I am on foodstamps, medicaid and Section 8. Perhaps I am a trust fund child whose grandfather has set them up.. Perhaps I am a child of a single mom who never made more than $25,000 a year and I worked multiple jobs to get through school, and have become very successful – on my own. How do you know?
            … … …

        • nj_v2

          You’re right! All that money the government gives to corporations and rich suckers in the form of tax breaks, nearly free land leases, and other subsidies really secures their support!

          • Salty

            Let’s see… I could garner the support of 300 rich land owners who vote or 300,000 additional welfare recipients who vote. Yeah, who needs the 300,000 votes. I will stick with my 300 votes. That will get me elected.

          • StilllHere

            Caution, you are dealing with the math-challenged.

          • Salty

            Yeah, good point…

        • jimino

          In your world, 47% are mind-controlled by the $100/month that gets paid to food retailers on their behalf but politicians are in no way swayed to kowtow to the whims, no matter how perverted, of those who give them millions. Do I have that right?

          • jefe68

            Amazing, is it not?

          • jimino

            Pathetic is more like it. Along with stupid, ignorant, and a total repudiation of everything that made this country great, while it lasted.

          • Salty

            Yes – who would vote against getting stuff paid for by others? Who would vote for less free stuff and being told that they had to actually contribute more to their subsistence?

            I also believe I should be able to give however much I want to whomever I want. It’s my money, don’t tell me how to spend it. I also think we should know who is contributing to our politicians. That way I can make an informed decision as to who to vote for.

          • Government_Banking_Serf

            As I interpret them, jimino and jefe think most people are too dumb to make their own decisions, and thus instead of advocating for liberty, transparency and accountability, they have more faith in centralized elites who will surely do the smart and right things for us and certainly never be corrupted.

            Scary.

          • jefe68

            What’s scary is the level of idiocy one sees on the right. How the mindless and historically inaccurate screeds of Clive Bundy can be given even an ounce of credence is beyond the pale.

            The right loves to throw around words like “liberty” ”transparency” ”accountability” and yet one sees little or no evidence of the right having any real belief in these ideas. Other than as filler for some screed.

            The scary thing is the intolerance and ignorance one sees in comments such as the one above.

          • jimino

            So who do you think people like Cliven Bundy are voting for in return for their free stuff?

          • Salty

            How many Bundys are there compared to those shackled by the soft chains of dependency of the modern welfare state? (Just in case – those on food stamps, section 8 housing, medicaid, free phones…)

          • jimino

            How about farmers and other ag produces? For example, our US Senator/rancher, who is certainly not unique in her level of rural freeloading, gets more dollar-wise every year in federal grazing privileges than a welfare recipient would get in direct payments over 25 years, so comparing the number of recipients doesn’t really tell an accurate story. Does your equation account for large families getting free public education? Are my examples also “those shackled by the soft chains of dependency of the modern welfare state”in your thinking?

          • Salty

            I’m talking about the number of voters. An entire neighborhood if federal housing has a lot more votes than one large ranch.

          • hennorama

            jimino — it is indeed curious to see the argument that politics are purely transactional for some people, but not for others.

            Apparently, the idea is that, quoting [Salty], “vot[ing] against be[ing] given ‘stuff’ that others are forced to pay for” would never occur in the “block [sic] of voters” described as “those who receive welfare type support,” but “be[ing] given ‘stuff’ that others are forced to pay for’ has no impact on others.

        • Ray in VT

          Sure. That’s what it’s all about. Buying votes.

        • StilllHere

          Sorry vote buying apparently doesn’t work that way according to some.

      • Salty

        See if this helps: Most of those who receive welfare type support vote Democrat. Look it up. (To help you a bit, remember we are talking people, not states. States don’t vote – people do.)

        • hennorama

          Salty — please note my consolidated reply, farther below.

    • Government_Banking_Serf

      Similar point behind my moniker. When we complain about “the man”, often done by good progressives, its a feeling of Serfdom. “Needing” crappy jobs, working to pay a mortgage just before you die, etc. We can do it with a smile, and we can freely choose these things to an extent, but that nagging feeling of being held down by “the man” is essentially the Serfdom. I just think many progressives are misguided in thinking we only need personal behavior liberty, but fear economic liberty. “The Man” starts with the Fed/Wall St/Washington nexus and comes down from there.

      Empowering them with hope of good intentions and wisdom is not working.

  • StilllHere

    Which one is the robot?
    I don’t care about bowing a greeting, it’s the bowing during negotiation that is worrisome. The bowing gave Putin and Assad the wrong message, no?
    6-2 decision sounds like bipartisan will, good on them.

    • Jill122

      Not really. The nuances matter and will be used for years to come. Two were for – two were against (on racial grounds alone). The other three voted against but for entirely different reasons. And one recused herself.

      In some ways it’s like the Bush decision. What they did cannot be used in the future. It was simply for that case at that time and they wrote that conclusion in their decision.

      This one will be the same because they left their other rulings on racial prejudice and the remedies unchanged. Nice to know that Roberts didn’t mean what he said when he promised stare decisis. But we knew that at the time, right?

      • StilllHere

        Wow, that’s a lot of meaningless nuance and it’s already having an impact so it will be used in the future. Again 6 to 2 so pretty strong decision, Roberts or no.

        • Jill122

          It’s only meaningless to someone who doesn’t understand the implications. You shouldread the opinions. I wrote in shorthand believing somehow that you would understand. My mistake. I’ll not explicate here — their opinions go to hundreds of pages.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Is that Obama bowing at the robot or is he just suffering from the effects of some bad sushi?

  • OnPointComments

    Perhaps Cliven Bundy is simply taking to extreme Attorney General Holder’s advice to state attorneys general that it’s okay to ignore the laws you don’t like. After all, hasn’t the Obama administration and the DOJ decided that they’ll ignore the Supreme Court decision invalidating parts of the 1965 Voting Rights Act, ignore drug laws they don’t like, and ignore immigration laws?

    Or maybe Bundy and his supporters observed the nearly universal liberal approval of the Occupy Wall Street movement and thought their occupation would be greeted similarly.

    • John Cedar

      He waived parts of Obamacare too.

    • HonestDebate1

      Not to mention he has missed 44 Obamacare deadlines. We have to enact the law which is already law before we know what’s in it.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      And keeping it closer to Nevada, Obama and Harry Reid tag teamed to violate the Yucca Mountain law.

      http://articles.latimes.com/2013/aug/13/nation/la-na-nn-yucca-mountain-nuclear-waste-20130813

    • JS

      Not sure that the Occupy Movement had unpaid bills, like the free-loader welfare king Bundy

      • WorriedfortheCountry

        “‘Occupy’ Protests Cost Nation’s Cities At Least $13 Million: Survey”

        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/23/occupy-protests-cost_n_1109695.html

        • JS

          Did they owe money they didn’t pay, which lead to these new charges being levied? The govenerment’s outsized response not withstanding, those cost are the same as the cost of getting Bundy to pay, not comparable to what he originally owed.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Just because cowardly hack politicians didn’t press charges and ultimately fine them for trespassing doesn’t remove the parallels.

          • JS

            Sure, there are some parables.

            But everything you say about the Occupy Movement occurred after it started.

            Bundy didn’t pay to begin with. Shouldn’t he have? and if he did the whole mess would have been avoided.

      • StilllHere

        We’ll be paying for the public defenders in all the rape cases.

    • JGC

      About ignoring immigration laws, your antihero Cliven Bundy had some surprisingly interesting reflections, shortly after wrapping up his comments on the Negroes who may have been happier “picking cotton” and “growing turnips” during the halcyon days of slavery:

      “Now, let me talk about the Spanish people…” I thought, uh-oh, here we go. But Mr. Bundy goes on to say although he knows they are breaking the law under our Constitution by coming illegally over our border, they are a hard working people who pay their taxes and fully deserve to stay here, and we should just let them be. There was absolutely no irony in how he spoke about them being good taxpayers, or in his advocating that immigration law should be suspended in their cases.

  • HonestDebate1

    The deplorable things happening to our veterans is unacceptable but a sign of what government controlled healthcare will mean for all of America. It deserves a show.

    http://hotair.com/archives/2014/04/24/must-see-phoenix-va-maintains-secret-waiting-list-while-sick-veterans-languish-and-die/

    • anamaria23

      That certainly is deplorable. Thankfully, it is being investigated by the Veterans Administration and thus far only documented in the Phoenix VA. The government has been implementing veteran’s healthcare for generations.
      The ACA is not government controlled health care.

      • HonestDebate1

        I think the VA is indeed a bellwether for the Obamacare which certainly is government controlled healthcare.

        • JS

          Yes, it would be much better if veterans didn’t have the VA, and healthcare, as opposed to a sometimes flawed system. (sarcasm)

          • HonestDebate1

            Criminally flouting the law that requires Veterans to be seen within 14 days by creating a secret waiting list for the waiting list is despicable. That is not a flaw and framing it as such is not honest debate.

          • anamaria23

            It is deplorable, but, it seems only documented at Phoenix VA and VA administration is investigating and demanding all the records from that institution. It is not representative of the VA health care system over all, but hopefully an isolated practice. Certainly, I hope veterans are reporting such malpractice if or when it occurs,

          • HonestDebate1

            I don’t know, I’ve been critical of the VA’s record for a very long time and this latest incident does not surprise me. Maybe I’m being unfair but I don’t think so.

            And I hope it was just Phoenix but we were told the IRS thing was just a couple of rogues in Cincinnati so I’m dubious.

          • anamaria23

            Good grief! How does the VA health care system equate with the “IRS thing?”
            Do YOU use the system? I know people who have been in it for fifty years and are doing okay. Yes, it is not perfect, but corrections are being implemented, however slowly. Why is your glass always half empty?

          • HonestDebate1

            It relates because they are government bureaucracies and as such there will always be defenders who try to frame it a an isolated incident which I hope this was. I had also hoped the IRS thing was just a few rogues in one office but it wasn’t.

            But thanks, I do try to look at the glass is half full, I just don’t understand why we need such a big glass.

            I’m really not trying to argue or be contentious. I agree with much of what you are saying.

          • Ray in VT

            Hey, have you guys managed to tie the IRS issue to the White House? That was supposed to be one of the main memes. How has that worked out?

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            The “most transparent” regime in history isn’t helping.

          • HonestDebate1

            I don’t recall making that claim although it would not surprise me. I love it how you invent memes. Have you guys managed to isolate the scandal to a couple of rogues in Cincinnati?

          • HonestDebate1

            I see you changed your comment to read “empty”.

          • JS

            So, congress imposes a law that all veterans must be seen within 14 days, how much of a percentage decrease would that be than before? Was the VA given the increased funding to meet this requirement? Again, a flawed system: they hid the fact that the couldn’t make the 14 day limit, while still trying to help veterans.

            And as proven previously, you know the definition of neither honest nor debate.

          • HonestDebate1

            I was under the impression the 14 day requirement was as old as the VA itself. I’ll have to dig into it. I certainly don’t think it was anything new.

            40 people died waiting. One grieving family finally received notice 2 weeks after the Veteran died. I can’t view that as helping veterans is any way, shape or form and maintain it is honest debate. You are entitled to your opinion.

          • JS

            Yes, thats deplorable. So are you saying, because of that, the VA doesn’t help veterans in any way. Because if you are (and it seems that you are implying that), then that is not honest debate.

          • HonestDebate1

            I am not sayng, implying or hinting at anything of the sort. I wrote the opposite to Anamaria earlier.

            They do a lot of good things but have had a lot of bad issues too.”

          • JS

            “The deplorable things happening to our veterans is unacceptable but a sign of what government controlled healthcare will mean for all of America.”

            I apologize if I took this wrongly as a blanket criticism of the VA. I glad you see that Obamacare will do a lot of good things also.

          • Steve__T

            He see.s no such thing.

        • Ray in VT

          Do I need to get clearance from the IRS to go to my doctor, or can I just cut out the middle man and go to the local IRS office for my annual checkup?

          • HonestDebate1

            The IRS does not offer clearance if you don’t comply. And yes, by all means head to the local IRS office for a checkup. Brilliant.

        • anamaria23

          You are using this incident to condemn the entire VA health care system, then go on to speculate the worst case scenario as a “bellwether” for the ACA. Mere conjecture.

          • HonestDebate1

            Not really, I’m not condemning the entire VA. They do a lot of good things but have had a lot of bad issues too. That much is not conjecture. It certainly got a lot more press under Bush which was fine and deserved. The analogy with Obamacare may be conjecture but still, I think it’s true.

    • jimino

      Well they could always utilize the free market and get their high-quality affordable health care that way. Kind of like all those Canadians who come to the USA for their care. Is there something about veterans that makes them incapable of doing that?

      • HonestDebate1

        Hero’s are dying while they wait. They believed the promises would be kept. They trusted the government. If you are saying they should not have expected what they were promised then you may be right but I don’t blame the victims. You however seem to be implying it’s their fault.

        • jimino

          I did not blame anybody. Think of it as running government like a business, in which case they should be ecstatic they still get their pension benefits and some level of health care benefits. Don’t you know their former employer is broke?

          Since you brought up the issue of blame, who do you blame for all those private sector workers with similar expectations who lost their pensions and benefits while others walked away with millions of dollars for their brilliant business acumen for cutting labor costs?

          But my question remains: If they are not satisfied why not just go and do what they can on the free market, like millions of others have to do?

          • HonestDebate1

            No, but you seemed to imply it. Not a penny is spent that is not debt. It’s a matter of priorities. The veterans who secure our freedom should be at the top of the list. That’s just my opinion.

            I blame a broken system and Barney Frank.

            I thought I made clear they trusted the promises would be kept. By the time they lost that trust they were dead.

          • jimino

            “It’s a matter of priorities. The veterans who secure our freedom should be at the top of the list.”

            Like all the other troop-supporting tax cutters. Or, to put it another way, bullshit.

          • HonestDebate1

            Alrighty then.

          • pete18

            Tax revenues did not go down after tax cuts.

          • HonestDebate1

            In fact they went up by over a half trillion dollars in 4 years after the rates were lowered. 2007 still holds the record but I’m not sure where 2013 came in.

          • anamaria23

            The VA health care system is generally well regarded with amazing doctors and staff. The unfortunate backlogs of the last few years are terrible, but news of late is that it is catching up. It is an overwhelming situation. So many wounded, but so many thankfully saved that may not have been in previous wars. We need to do all we can as citizens to support wounded warrior facilities and support for families.

      • hennorama

        jimino — this is an interesting argument that may not be coming across as you intended.

        I interpret as a combination comment on “access to health care,” as well as one of the arguments from a particular supporter of voter ID laws.

        Please correct any misinterpretation.

    • hypocracy1

      hotair.com… from HonestDebate1..

      priceless..

      • HonestDebate1

        I’m not sure I follow but if it a shallow attempt to shoot the messenger then you know nothing about Hot Air. It is a very reputable, fair and reliable blog. Allahpundit is one of the best. I’d invite you to address the issue raised.

        • StilllHere

          Don’t hold your breath. He’d rather just be nasty.

          • jefe68

            Troll alert.

      • Steve__T

        VA provides world-class health coverage to eligible Veterans. The Veterans Health Administration (VHA) is America’s largest integrated health care system, with more than 1,700 sites of care, and it is consistently ranked among the top health care providers in the country.

        The Affordable Care Act (ACA) is designed to expand access to health coverage, control health care costs, improve health care quality, and coordinate care. Learn more about Veterans and ACA at VA’s ACA website.
        Explore VA Health Care Today

        VA Removes Annual Income Reporting Requirement

        Eliminates Burden on Veterans, Improves Customer Service

        March 24, 2014

        WASHINGTON –The Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) is eliminating the annual requirement for most Veterans enrolled in VA’s health care system to report income information beginning in March 2014. Instead, VA will automatically match income information obtained from the Internal Revenue Service and Social Security Administration.

        “Eliminating the requirement for annual income reporting makes our health care benefits easier for Veterans to obtain,” said Secretary of Veterans Affairs Eric K. Shinseki. “This change will reduce the burden on Veterans, improve customer service and make it much easier for Veterans to keep their health care eligibility up-to-date.”

        Some Veterans applying for enrollment for the first time are still required to submit income information. There is no change in VA’s long-standing policy to provide no-cost care to indigent Veterans, Veterans with catastrophic medical conditions, Veterans with a disability rating of 50 percent or higher, or for conditions that are officially rated as “service-connected.”

        VA encourages Veterans to continue to use the health benefits renewal form to report changes in their personal information, such as address, phone numbers, dependents, next of kin, income and health insurance.

        http://www.va.gov/healthbenefits/

  • Ray in VT

    There’s a new Birther conspiracy theory out there. Apparently Obama’s mother wasn’t really his mother or something. Don’t worry, though, World Nut Daily has Corsi on it, so he’ll get to the bottom of it.

    • StilllHere

      Thanks, can always count on you for the nut perspective.

      • Ray in VT

        And I can always count on you to provide the TBI perspective.

        • jefe68

          It’s the Friday troll roll.

          • StilllHere

            Don’t sell yourself short, you’re here everyday, got nowhere else to be apparently. f/eu

          • jefe68

            What’s that sound? Why it’s faint insipid cry of the right wing bottom feeder as he spews out his daily dose of maliciousness.

          • StilllHere

            Look in the mirror shorty.

          • jefe68

            Ahh, so cute. The troll tries to be funny.

        • StilllHere

          Nice, really some of your better stuff. You’re just one TBI short of being intelligent, assuming it goes in that direction as well..

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Are you curious how Obama has a CT SSN?

      • Ray in VT

        Not really. One of my friends was born up here but never got one until he went into the army, which is why he ended up with one common, in terms of the leading numbers, to the deep south.

    • hennorama

      Ray in VT — once again, paraphrasing a quote often attributed to P.T. Barnum:

      “There’s a [conspiracy theorist] born every minute.”

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      I thought the conspiracy was that his ‘real’ father was Franklin Marshall Davis so he has ‘real’ commie genes; not those fake Kenyan commie genes.

      • Ray in VT

        It’s hard to keep up with all of the conspiracies. One wonders if the guy was manufactured in a Twins type scenario. Maybe that’s the next conspiracy.

    • brettearle

      Corsi has already gotten to the bottom, all right.

      His own.

    • OnPointComments

      I thought the newest birther conspiracy was about Ted Cruz.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Now that Bundy has made racist comments (it could have been comments on “illegitimate” rape) the left is jumping up and down with glee.

    Here is an excellent essay on the subject that is sure to go over the head of those looking for simplistic reasons to attack the right.

    ““Cliven Bundy may very well be a nut job, but one thing is for sure: The federal government wouldn’t treat a tortoise the way it has treated him.””

    “Critics on the left, being an ignorant bunch, may be unaware of the fact, but the example of Mohandas Gandhi is here particularly apt, given that the great man had some pretty creepy ideas about everything from race to homosexuality, for example writing that blacks aspired to nothing more than passing their time in “indolence and nakedness,” objecting to blacks’ being housed in Indian neighborhoods, etc. ”

    “Mr. Bundy’s remarks reflect poorly on the man, not on the issue with which the man is associated.”

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/376488/bundys-racial-rhetoric-kevin-d-williamson

    • StilllHere

      And yet he’s got Obama’s rspcet.

    • hypocracy1

      I thought the issue was that he is a racist freeloader that was hailed as a hero by the rightwingers? It isn’t obvious by now that everyone that far to the right is a racist?

      • WorriedfortheCountry

        No and no.

      • HonestDebate1

        That’s sick.

      • JGC

        The original issue with which the man is associated is he is a moocher who squatted on federal land for twenty years. One thing my good friend Cliven Bundy and I can agree on is it certainly is easier to afford to raise a family of 14 children when you avoid paying the rent for two decades.

        • StilllHere

          First, I’m sure you’re not capable of having children and second you’re not capable of having friends. Why must you liberal democraps always deal in fantasy?

          • JGC

            I think I missed you the most of all, Scarecrow…

      • hennorama

        hypocracy1 — No, of course not, and that sort of scurrilous rhetoric has no place in a reasoned discussion.

    • Steve__T

      Right-Wing Backers Criticize Rancher Cliven Bundy After Racist Remarks

      A Nevada rancher whose stand against the federal government became a right-wing cause célèbre has been caught on tape making racist comments. Cliven Bundy refused to pay decades’ worth of fees for grazing his cattle on federal land, prompting a standoff with federal rangers during which an armed militia of supporters flocked to his aid. In comments quoted by The New York Times, Bundy discussed what he termed “the Negro.”

      Cliven Bundy: “So now what do they do? They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy?”

      Right-wing figures, including Fox News host Sean Hannity and Republican Senators Dean Heller, Rand Paul and Ted Cruz, have all condemned Bundy’s remarks after they publicly supported his case.

      http://www.democracynow.org/2014/4/25/headlines#4259

      • WorriedfortheCountry

        I’m not really sure how that is response to my post but I would say it is NOT an example of the left “jumping up and down with glee”.

        • Steve__T

          No its the right runnin way yonder.
          To use Mahatma Gandhi as an example? that comparison by By Kevin D. Williamson author of the colum, to this is as disingenuous as you can get, forget context, history and location.

      • JGC

        Some have publicly condemned Bundy’s remarks, and some others have quietly scrubbed their public support, like the Koch financed Americans for Prosperity Nevada.

        • Steve__T

          Well he did say some stupid sh!t. “I don’t believe in the federal government I don’t believe that it exist,” Then seen riding a horse waving and carrying a U.S. Flag.

          Total nutbutter

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    How does the Democrat party continually elect Harry Reid as their leader? An excellent essay by historian Victor Davis Hanson.

    “Reid Has Become a McCarthy for Our Time”

    “McCarthy in the 1950s became infamous for smearing his opponents with lurid allegations that he could not prove, while questioning their patriotism. Reid has brought back to the Senate that exact same McCarthy style of six decades ago — and trumped it.”

    “So how does Reid’s reckless career continue with the Senate leader avoiding the sort of congressional censure that finally did in McCarthy? Why is there is no progressive muckraker to take on Reid the way that Edward R. Murrow once exposed McCarthy?”

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2014/04/24/reid_has_become_a_mccarthy_for_our_time_122402.html

    • HonestDebate1

      He was quick to come out and say Republicans should all denounce Bundy (which they already did) thereby tacitly issuing marching orders to the press to hound every Republican interviewed which they certainly will do. Now the underlying issue will be ignored and a circus will ensue. That will clear the way for the feds to do a massive land grab on the Red River. Reid knows exactly what he is doing.

      • JS

        So the feds are going to grab federal land?

        • HonestDebate1

          Yes, but ever since Kelo that’s nothing new. I was referring to the 90,000 acres along the Oklahoma/Texas border. I think Kansas is affected too. Hopefully it will be thwarted before it gains momentum.

          • JS

            If it’s federal land, how are they “grabbing” it?

          • HonestDebate1

            Just to be clear, I didn’t say they were grabbing it so I don’t understand the quotation marks. I said they are clearing the way, I also expressed hope it would be thwarted before it gained momentum.

            They BLM has already held field hearings about revising regulations that determine what is and isn’t federal land. So no, as it stands now the 90.000 acres is not Federal land. As I understand it has to do with redefining wetlands and what constitutes the river’s edge which fluctuates wildly.

            I own some land on a river. It is only 16 acres but since it is in a big loop there is a 1/2 mile of frontage. The river is the boundary but on one section we own both sides because 150 years ago when the boundary was set the river was in a different place. It’s the same kind of principal.

          • Steve__T

            See how clear and HONEST he is as, he doesn’t understand when he types:” That will clear the way for the feds to do a massive land grab on the Red River. Reid knows exactly what he is doing.”
            Just more of the usual Dishonest debater.

          • JS

            Ah ha, don’t you see: He said “clearing the way” for a land grab, never did he say the Feds were DOING a land grab.

            And you flatter him by calling him a debater.

          • JGC

            I wonder if the Oaf Keepers will show up to defend the ranchers and farmers in Nebraska and Texas, to protect them from the TransCanada/Koch Brothers land grab being attempted under eminent domain.

          • HonestDebate1

            Good question.

  • Government_Banking_Serf

    “The important premise we all should remember is these are people who have their fingerprints taken, their backgrounds checked and they have been licensed to carry a weapon. It’s not just someone walking out of the clear blue with none of those background checks. They’ve been subjected to scrutiny of the state.”

    -Deal

    If so, what’s the problem? Since when did we have a gun violence problem with law abiding citizens?

    Do people really think law abiding gun owners are a problem, aside from them voting for a different party?

    When will we focus on targeting criminal gun possession?

    Of course that would be enforcing Rule of Law, as opposed to just throwing liberties out the window for feel good illusions and easy votes and avoiding offending anyone. We can’t have that now.

    Warrantless Search and Seizure.
    Keep and Bear Arms.
    Law made by Legislature, Executed by Executive (Separation of Powers)
    Sovereignty
    etc, etc.

    At this point I wouldn’t be surprised to see an executive order allowing illegal immigrants the right to carry unregistered guns from botched gun-running sting operations, so they can stand their ground against those violent racist Tea Partiers, along with tips from the NSA on where Tea Partiers live, all funded by extra IRS tax revenue from politically targeted Tea partiers, while the rights of ordinary law abiding citizens continue to be sold off by spineless pandering politicians.

    • OnPointComments

      If getting guns off the street is the goal, then enact harsh laws with long prison terms for possession of an unlawful firearm, and even longer prison terms for possession of a firearm during the commission of a crime.

      • hypocracy1

        Pretty sure they tried that with illegal drugs and I don’t think it worked out so well..

        • OnPointComments

          Do you expect the criminals will obey a law mandating background checks?

      • jimino

        Gun possession and use crimes carry mandatory minimum sentences more frequently than any other category of crimes, and typically must be consecutive to any other sentence.

    • hypocracy1

      Might as well throw in white slavery while you’re on that roll..

    • jimino

      Now that’s some genuine frontier gibberish (with apologies to Mel Brooks), with a dollop of paranoia thrown in. Is your surname Johnson by any chance?

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    The ‘settled science’ crowd should read this posting. You can’t go wrong with Freeman Dyson.

    jc:”With regards to climate science, the biggest concern that I have is the insistence on ‘the facts.’ This came up during my recent ‘debate’ with Kevin Trenberth. I argued that there are very few facts in all this, and that most of what passes for facts in the public debate on climate change is: inference from incomplete, inadequate and ambiguous observations; climate models that have been demonstrated not to be useful for most of the applications that they are used for; and theories and hypotheses that are competing with alternative theories and hypotheses.”

    “The loose use of ‘the facts’ in the public discussion of climate change (scientists, the media, politicians) is enormously misleading, damaging to science, and misleading to policy deliberations.”

    “The case for blunders”
    http://judithcurry.com/2014/04/21/the-case-for-blunders/#more-14825

    • OnPointComments

      Some facts and the first question from an article I found interesting that has five questions for billionaire Tom Steyer:

      • There has been no temperature trend over the last 15 years; the actual record has belied the predictions of the models.
      • The past two years have set a record for the fewest tornadoes ever for a similar period, and there has been no trend in the frequency of strong (F3 to F5) tornadoes in the United States since 1950.
      • The number of wildfires is in a long-term decline.
      • It has been eight years since a Category 3 or higher hurricane landed on a U.S. coast; that long a period devoid of an intense hurricane landfall has not been observed since 1900.
      • The 2013 Atlantic hurricane season was the least active in 40 years, with zero major hurricanes.
      • There has been no trend in the frequency or intensity of tropical cyclones, and tropical cyclone energy is near its lowest level since reliable measurements began by satellite in the 1970s.
      • There has been no change in the long-term trend in sea level.
      • The record of changes in the size of the Arctic ice cover is far more ambiguous than often asserted, because the satellite measurements began at the outset of the warming period from roughly 1980 through 1998.
      • The Palmer Drought Severity Index shows no trend since 1895.
      • Flooding in the United States over the last century has not been correlated with increases in greenhouse-gas concentrations.

      What systematic evidence supports the assertion that increasing atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases (GHG) are causing significant adverse effects?

      FIVE QUESTIONS FOR MR. TOM STEYER
      An Earth Day conversation about global warming.

      • HonestDebate1

        More good news. I’m uncorking.

        • nj_v2

          You’ve been uncorked for quite a while.

          • HonestDebate1

            Only on steak night.

      • nj_v2

        Cherry-picked, incomplete, misleading crap from a corporate free-marketeer hack.

        Just what we expect from the after-hours conservo clown-posse party.

        Zycher’s employer:

        http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Pacific_Research_Institute

        The Pacific Research Institute (PRI) or officially the “Pacific Research Institute for Public Policy,” is athink tank founded in 1979 whose stated vision is the promotion of “the principles of individual freedom and personal responsibility. The Institute believes these principles are best encouraged through policies that emphasize a free economy, private initiative, and limited government.” The institute is a501(c)3 non-profit corporation, and had $4.9M in revenue in 2005. [1] The Pacific Research Institute has associated with other think-tanks like theAmerican Enterprise Institute and the Cato Institute.

        (excerpt)

        “No warming for 15 years” is bullcrap.

        http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2013/01/14/no_global_warming_for_16_years_debunking_climate_change_denial.html

        Case in point: The claim that there’s been no global warming for the past 16 years. This is blatantly untrue, a ridiculous and obviously false statement. But I see it over and again online, in Op Eds, and in comments to climate change posts.

        The good news is, John Cook Kevin C. from Skeptical Science has created a nice, short video showing just why this claim is such a whopper.

        I like this: clear, to the point, and easy to understand. The bottom line is that temperatures continue to rise, and that human-caused greenhouse gas forcing of the climate has not even slowed, let alone stopped.

        http://www.livescience.com/39250-global-warming-pacific-cooling.html

        Cooling sea-surface temperatures in the tropical Pacific Ocean — a phase that is part of a natural warm and cold cycle — may explain why global average temperatures have stabilized in recent years, even as greenhouse gas emissions have been warming the planet, according to new research.

        The findings suggest that the flattening in the rise of global temperatures recorded over the past 15 years are not signs of a “hiatus” in global warming, but are tied to cooling temperatures in the tropical or equatorial Pacific Ocean. When the tropical Pacific naturally switches back into a warm phase, the long-term trends in global warming, including more steeply rising global temperatures, will likely increase, said study co-author Shang-Ping Xie, a climate scientist at the University of California, San Diego.

        “The engine driving atmospheric circulation on global scales resides in the tropical Pacific,” Xie told LiveScience. “When the natural cycle shifts the next time to a warmer state, we’re going to see more extreme warming on the global scale.” [The Reality of Climate Change: 10 Myths Busted]

        And hurricane incidence isn’t yet clearly tied to climate change, so that’s a bogus point.

        • HonestDebate1

          “And hurricane incidence isn’t yet clearly tied to climate change, so that’s a bogus point.”

          That’s funny!

          And for a real kick g back a year and read what some were writing.

          http://onpoint.wbur.org/2012/10/30/the-wrath-of-sandy

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          “… no global warming for the past 16 years. This is blatantly untrue, a ridiculous and obviously false statement….”

          Why turn to the paid propagandists at skeptical science when the IPCC has the answer:

          “IPCC vice chair Francis Zwiers, director of the Pacific Climate Impacts Consortium at the University of Victoria in Canada, co-wrote a paper published in this month’s Nature Climate Change that said climate models had “significantly” overestimated global warming over the last 20 years — and especially for the last 15 years, which coincides with the onset of the hiatus.

          The models had predicted that the average global surface temperature would increase by 0.21 of a degree Celsius over this period, but they turned out to be off by a factor of four, Zwiers and his colleagues wrote. In reality, the average temperature has edged up only 0.05 of a degree Celsius over that time — which in a statistical sense is not significantly different from zero.”

          And btw, OPC original post referenced temperature ‘trends’.

          Maybe you could tell the guys at skepticalscience to get right on the IPCCs case. Right away, before the planet burns up.

          http://articles.latimes.com/2013/sep/22/science/la-sci-climate-change-uncertainty-20130923

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    How did this one get by Tom and company?

    “State Department gets second chance to list Hillary Clinton accomplishments; it doesn’t go well”

    http://washingtonexaminer.com/state-department-gets-second-chance-to-list-hillary-clinton-accomplishments.-it-doesnt-go-well./article/2547639

    • OnPointComments

      How did the latest Treasury Inspector General report get by Tom and company:

      “…However, between October 1, 2010 and December 31, 2012, more than 2,800 employees with recent substantiated conduct issues resulting in disciplinary action received more than $2.8 million in monetary awards, more than 27,000 hours in time-off awards, and 175 quality step increases. Among these, more than 1,100 IRS employees with substantiated Federal tax compliance problems received more than $1 million in cash awards, more than 10,000 hours in time-off awards, and 69 quality step increases within a year after the IRS substantiated their tax compliance problem.”
      http://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditreports/2014reports/201410007fr.pdf

      The agency that won’t hesitate to garnish your wages, seize your bank account, and put you in jail rewards its own employees with bonuses and vacation when they don’t pay their taxes or are guilty of misconduct. I wonder if Lois Lerner got one of those bonuses.

  • OnPointComments

    Good news, but not for everyone…

    THE PACIFIC’S SALMON ARE BACK — THANK HUMAN INGENUITY
    Geoengineering could turn our long-barren oceans into a bounty.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/376258/pacifics-salmon-are-back-thank-human-ingenuity-robert-zubrin

    Excerpt:

    In 2012, the British Columbia–based Native American Haida tribe launched an effort to restore the salmon fishery…[and] to demonstrate the feasibility of open-sea mariculture…It worked. In fact it has been a stunningly over-the-top success. This year, the number of salmon caught in the northeast Pacific more than quadrupled, going from 50 million to 226 million. In the Fraser River, which only once before in history had a salmon run greater than 25 million fish (about 45 million in 2010), the number of salmon increased to 72 million.

    Native Americans bringing back the salmon and preserving their way of life, while combating global warming: One would think that environmentalists would be very pleased.

    One would be very wrong. Far from receiving applause for their initiative, the Haida and Mr. George have become the target of rage aimed from every corner of the community seeking to use global warming as a pretext for curtailing human freedom.

    The article goes on to cite criticism of the success from numerous sources, because “They hate it because it solves a problem they need unsolved,” i.e., global warming. If the cult of ecodictators can’t scare you, they can’t control you. The ecodictators aren’t interested in facts, or even results.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Amazing. And phytoplankton a natural source of carbon sequestration too. They’ll only be happy with carbon sequestration IF it doubles the price of coal power.

      The “nature knows best” crowd doesn’t realize that CO2 levels were dangerously low at the start of the industrial revolution. 286ppm. Plant life shuts down at 150ppm. Yes, shuts down — game over. We are still at only 400ppm which is low by geological time scale standards.

      “The flowering plants we rely upon in our diet evolved 100 million years ago when the carbon dioxide level was four times the current concentration. ”

      http://www.humanevents.com/2014/03/24/the-carbon-dioxide-level-is-dangerously-low/

    • hennorama

      OPC — this is an intriguing result, and one that warrants further study, both of the data collected, and the long-term implications.

      However, it is difficult to encourage what seems to have been a large-scale operation that may have violated multiple international conventions, despite the results. Willy-nilly, ad hoc geoengineering is justifiably controversial.

      • OnPointComments

        Let’s see, one person criticized the success because it might have commercial application. How terrible. Another because it might provide an excuse to avoid reducing fossil-fuel emissions. A third was thrilled until she considered that nature might have been manipulated.

        I think I’ll go with the conclusions of Timothy Parsons, professor emeritus of fisheries science at the University of British Columbia, that “the purpose of enhancing salmon returns by increasing plankton production has considerable justification.” I’m sure the ecodictators would love to put the study of this geoengineering success on the same fast track as the Keystone pipeline.

        I agree with the author that the ecodictators hate it because it usurps the power they seek for themselves. Willy-nilly, ad hoc geoengineering is justifiably controversial, unless it’s something worthless like using ethanol for fuel, then anything goes.

        • hennorama

          OPC — TYFYR.

          I infer from the tone of your response that you feel I am in complete disagreement with the idea involved in what was reported. That is not the case.

          It certainly has considerable potential, based on the outcome, and assuming there was a direct cause-effect relationship.

          My point is that a measured and cautious approach is warranted. Controlled conditions, data collection and interpretation, long-term impacts, etc. You know, the use of the scientific method.

          As stated, it is an intriguing result.

          Thanks again for your response, and for bringing the topic to our attention.

          • OnPointComments

            YW.

            I get the impression that some of the ecodictators aren’t interested in any solution that doesn’t involve personal sacrifice and banning fossil fuels, regardless of how great and successful the solution is.

          • hennorama

            OPC — I think it’s fair to say that there are some on both sides of the various issues surrounding the environment, climate, fossil fuels, etc., who are not interested in either compromise or soutions.

            Again, thanks for putting the spotlight on this topic.

    • HonestDebate1

      That’s good news. What’s not to like?

  • OnPointComments

    A good editorial about a bipartisan bill, signed by the President, that President Obama says he is free to ignore. If President Obama disagreed with the bill, why would he sign it? Politics, which guides his every decision.

    CONSTITUTION DISREGARDED, CREDIBILITY LOST
    http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20140425/PC1002/140429600/1021/constitution-disregarded-credibility-lost

    Excerpt:
    Two weeks ago, Congress passed a bill barring anyone, including diplomats, from entering the United States who had participated in espionage or terrorist activity against this country. In a rare burst of bipartisanship, the bill was passed unanimously by both the Republican House and the Democratic Senate.

    Though President Obama signed the bill in question here, he did so while declaring it unconstitutional, in that it impinged on his authority to approve or disapprove applications for visas to enter the United States. He said he accepted the bill as “advisory” only, and not as law he felt obliged to enforce. The Constitution, which is silent on the question of “signing statements,” gives the president three options when presented with legislation passed by Congress. He may 1) do nothing, permitting the bill to become law without his approval; 2) sign the bill, making it law; 3) veto the bill, sending it back to the House in which it originated, along with his written objections. A two-thirds vote in both the Senate and the House of Representatives is required to override his veto.

    Few possess President Obama’s extraordinary talent for distancing himself from his own words and actions in the public arena. It’s not, I think, that hypocrisy no longer resonates the way it once did. It’s more that a strong sector of the electorate no longer seems to care or is ignorant of what happened in even the most recent past.

    • Jill122

      That’s why presidents use signing statements. They sign a bill passed by congress and then write an opinion about which parts of the bill they consider unconstitutional.

      Did you pout 700 times during the Bush administration when he did the same thing??? Oh! and was he a constitutional scholar? I recall something about “Gentlemen’s Cs” regarding his scholastic achievements.

      • OnPointComments

        Barack Obama is the president of the United States, not George Bush.

        Let’s see what Candidate Obama said before he became President Obama (emphasis added):
        Reporter: “When Congress offers you a bill, do you promise not to use presidential signage to get your way?
        Candidate Obama: Yes. Let me just explain for those who are unfamiliar with this issue. You know, we’ve got a government designed by the founders so that there’d be checks and balances. You don’t want a President who’s too powerful or a Congress who’s too powerful or courts that are too powerful. Everybody’s got their own role. Congress’ job is to pass legislation. The President can veto it, or he can sign it. But what George Bush has been trying to do is part of his effort to accumulate more power in the Presidency, is, he’s been saying, “Well, I can basically change what Congress passed by attaching a letter sayin’ ‘I don’t agree with this part’ or ‘I don’t agree with that part.’ I’m going to choose to interpret it this way or that way.” Uh, that’s not part of his power. But this is part of the whole theory of George Bush that he can make laws as he’s going along. I disagree with that. I taught the Constitution for ten years, I believe in the Constitution, and I will obey the Constitution of the United States. We’re not going to use signing statements as a way of doing an end run around Congress.” (Sen. Barack Obama, Campaign Event At Billings West High School, Billings, MT, 5/19/08)
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seAR1S1Mjkc#t=29

  • Steve__T

    I agree, I can’t count the times I would love to shoot at someone driving like a maniac, but also have the good sense not to.
    I had a Ford 350 1 Ton with lifters most cars could only see the hubcaps when I was next to them, but from the back you could see that I had a gun rack with three riffles. Never had a problem with anybody. I get int my 4D HB Hyundai and every bad driver on the road acts as if I have a target on the back of my car or I’m invisible. I also have a gun in the car but not visible.
    So all it takes is Do not drive while angry, and remember there are fools out their, that would love to give you a bad day. And drive safe, watching for fools and plain bad drivers. NO one wins an argument with a car unless your racing on a race tract. Guns we know what happens, and is still a loss for all concerned

  • JGC

    With all the focus on international and national events, it may have escaped your notice about two important news stories that were recently reported in my area of Pennsylvania:

    Headline from the Daily Press – “Kersey woman charged in GameCube assault” According to a police report, Ashley Himes of 118 Lovers Lane, Kersey, struck Exper J. Fox III in the head with a GameCube during an argument at their shared apartment…

    and from the Courier-Express – “Pepperoni missing” – Punxsutawney-based Pennsylvania state police are investigating the theft of an $8 stick of pepperoni from a Summerville residence. Police say Susan Carol Hummel, 57, said she bought the $8 stick of pepperoni April 10 and it turned up missing several days later from 567 Water St. Anyone with information on the missing pepperoni is asked to contact the police at 938-0510…

    • hennorama

      JGC — thanks for the police blotter update. I love this frequent feature of small town newspapers.

      On a related note, I’ve recently found some of the segments on the Fox News Channel to be a sort of video police blotter. There has always been some of this, but it seems to have increased of late.

      Thanks again for inducing a smile.

      • JGC

        On the other hand, I am sad to have to report the news about the recent death of Donald Lee “Rooster” Himes: (again, from the Courier-Express) – Donald Lee “Rooster” Himes. 69, Brookville, died Wednesday, April 16, 2014, at home…he was the son of the late Stewart Vincent and Esther Jane Sprankle Himes… He enjoyed hunting, fishing and watching sports…”

        Not known if he was any relation to GameCube assault suspect Ashley Himes… Also, I recall my dad saying that if the person’s nickname was not mentioned within the obituary, if only their formal Christian name was reported in the obit, no one would know who had died and no one would know to show up at the viewing.

        • hennorama

          JGC — PA has such an amazing diversity of both geography and culture that one can experience great contrasts over very short distances on the pike.

          There are so many headline possibilities in the items you’ve pointed out:

          Rooster Crows No More
          Love Is A Battlefield on Lovers Lane
          Pepperoni Missing, Cheese Again Left Standing Alone

          Whether readers would appreciate them is of course another matter.

          • JONBOSTON

            very funny. Nice injection of humor in this blog. Got me laughing this morning along with Greg’s post of the Dr Phil couch discussion with Vladdie and Barry.

          • hennorama

            JONBOSTON — Thank you for your very kind words.

            JGC is the real star, however, as my post would never have been written without such a wry catalyst.

    • HonestDebate1

      I love the phase “turned up missing” almost as much as I love playing hide the pepperoni.

      • JGC

        That is a word-for-word transcription from those local news reports. I didn’t even make up the domestic disturbance on Lovers Lane. As for the missing pepperoni, if i were the Punxsutawney investigating officer, my first question would be, “Ms. Hummel, do you perhaps have a Corgi or a German short-haired pointer in residence?”

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Unreported in the original story was that Ms. Hummel has been suffering from some memory issues of late and was overheard complaining to neighbors about a mysterious case of severe heartburn.

      Thanks for some Friday evening humor.

      • JGC

        Come to northwestern PA and you can enjoy this humor every day of the week! It’s like Vermont, but without all those pesky liberals.

      • hennorama

        WftC — also unreported is whether police have searched all of Ms. Hummel’s figurines.

        Frankly, I was disappointed that Mr. Fox’s middle initial is not T., an abbreviation of Teese.

    • calaiscowboy

      Curious as to your opinion of this exchange I had with LarryRowe on this topic:
      http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/02/17/278491491/pennsylvania-woman-claims-to-have-killed-at-least-22-people
      Select comments by “oldest” and scroll down a bit…

  • HonestDebate1
    • WorriedfortheCountry

      A few more of these and Obama will call up his billionaire golfing buddies over at Comcast and demand Leno’s return.

  • gslouch

    Changing the topic here,but so disappointing and sad to hear that our Japanese friends are still relegated to the primitive behavior of whale hunting. You would think humankind would have learned by now about the beauty of this breathtaking mammal. So,so sad. Don’t know what or who would have influence over this tragic, ill-thought-out decision, but hope we can end this soon.

    • Steve__T

      Check the more indigent people their history and customs you may come away with another feeling other than sad. It’s more about not going hungry, they eat what they kill. They don’t go out to kill a whale just to kill it, and then hang it on a wall.
      When it comes down to large fleets of whalers that is a problem.

  • hennorama

    nj_v2 — thanks for the update on the IRS examination of various groups, and the reality of the wide variety of applicants for tax-exempt status that were specifically mentioned on the 22 “Be On the Look Out” lists that IRS staffers were given.

    It seems that the bureaucrats were interested in many organizations, despite the claims of those who believe the added scrutiny was limited to one particular type of organization.

    Well done.

  • HonestDebate1

    I am struck by the seeming outrage at Bundy’s use of the word “negro”. It seems to me his comment is what was insulting, not his choice of noun. I don’t use the word because it’s not worth the hassle but it is the anthropologically correct word. I don’t get upset when being labeled Caucasian. We are all Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Negroid or some combination thereof.

    The sad part is the left’s inability to separate the issue from the personality. I still am not sure about the merits of Bundy’s argument regarding grazing rights but I know the BLM is suspect in their methods and has been for quite some time. That is the issue. Bundy’s sick comments have nothing to do with the issue yet the press is having a field day.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Yeah, the big story isn’t Bundy’s racism or his being a Fed scofflaw. It is the unbridled power of the Feds and how they can wield it at will, against ANYONE. However, the media has a narrative they want to play up and use it to change the subject.

      Apparently there was some shoddy journalism in reporting on Bundy. An ‘unedited’ video tape showing didn’t have racist intent. His misguided comments were probably just his ignorance coming through.

      http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/unedited-tape-bundy-emerges-sheds-light-racist-remarks

      And then there is his African American employee who claims Bundy has no racist bones and has always treated him as family. The NYTimes missed that one too.

      http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/04/25/black_bundy_bodyguard_hes_not_a_racist_id_take_a_bullet_for_that_man.html

      • HonestDebate1

        Nobody on the left cares about context but thanks for providing some.

        • jefe68

          Here’s some context. How about I use your land to graze some cattle and then refuse to pay you for the land use. I then bring some armed men and we stand our ground.

          • hennorama

            jefe68 — the hilarity of the statement to which you replied is rather sizable, given the repeated comments that explain the context of Mr. Bundy’s wrongdoings.

            We have a case of an old ignorant fool attracting other fools, who got fooled into supporting an old ignorant fool, whose reprehensible and ignorant remarks have left the other fools scurrying away.

            Because: freedom, or something.

            Speaking of not caring about context — the individual to whom you replied has often quoted the completely out-of-context remark “You didn’t build that,” recently praising the famous quitter, Mrs. Palin, for her use of the same outof-context remark.

            What’s does one call it when someone does something, then inaccurately criticizes someone else for [supposedly] doing the same thing?

          • HonestDebate1

            As you casually slander the most awesome Mrs. Palin by calling her a quitter when it was impossible for her to govern because of a gazillion lawsuits by ignorant zealots, you let Obama skate for serving 2 of 6 years and quitting the Senate with no such justification. So there’s that.

          • HonestDebate1

            Speaking of not caring about context — the individual to whom you replied has often quoted the completely out-of-context remark “You didn’t build that,” recently praising the famous quitter, Mrs. Palin, for her use of the same out of-context remark.

            What’s does one call it when someone does something, then inaccurately criticizes someone else for [supposedly] doing the same thing?

            I just realized you were talking about me. What on earth are you referring to? I think you are confused. And what context makes Obama’s idiotic remark seem reasonable? It was stupid in any context.

          • jefe68

            An idiot.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Poor analogy. Let’s try this.

            1,146 IRS employees who each owe back Federal taxes were paid of total of $1.1M in bonus payments. Scofflaws, just like Bundy, right?

            How would you feel if the US government sent in 200 SWAT officers to the home each and every one of the 1,146 scofflaws to collect by intimidation? And while they are there they randomly destroyed some of the private property of the employees.

            Should we start on Monday? It is the next business day and I’m sure there are plenty of SWAT officials sitting around waiting for orders. And who gives those orders? Who decides who gets the SWAT overreach and who doesn’t? Equal treatment under the law?

            http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-irs-bonuses-20140424,0,7198534.story#axzz302E3r2vv

          • hennorama

            WftC — to improve your analogy, have the Federal government file and win multiple legal actions against each of the persons in question, and wait at least 15 years before attempting any enforcement actions.

          • jefe68

            Interesting. You think my analogy is bad and then post one of your own. Smart move there. SWAT teams are not used against scofflaws unless they instigate violence. For the record, I’m not a big fan of the militarization of the police.

            Scofflaws are dealt with by the courts and Bundy has lost every court case.

          • HonestDebate1

            It must be frustrating for hennorama to relegate herself to liking comments like your’s in lieu of honest debate but I write that just for fun.

            Your analogy is laughably flawed beginning with the fact that I have not claimed Bundy was in the right, I just am not that certain that he is in the wrong. I am certain about what is mine but not so certain about what is the government’s. You are certainly correct in the assumption that if you set foot on my land you will be met with armed resistance. But I will not slaughter your herd.

          • jefe68

            The analogy is not flawed. How is it that land owned by a town, state or the federal government is different than what you or I own? The only difference is that eminent domain is a law that local, state and federal governments can use that trumps citizens.

            You can try to be obtuse, but your comments on the Bundy debacle is clear for all the see.

            So if someone walks on your land you shoot first and ask questions later.
            That’s a good summation of the real you you, a real SOB with a gun.

          • HonestDebate1

            As I understand it, Mr. Bundy happily paid all fees to the city and State. And regarding imminent domain, I think Kelo was a travesty.

            “So if someone walks on your land you shoot first and ask questions later?

            Or are you publicly threatening me on this forum with violence?”

            That is beyond stupid, I did not say anything of the sort. Don’t be a wuss, nobody threatened you.

      • hennorama

        WftC — Mr. Bundy is wrong on all counts, and his words speak for themselves.

        The facts of his case have been adjudicated multiple times over two decades, and he has lost every time. His refusal to pay, and to remove his cattle from public land is wrong.

        This is a landlord-tenant dispute, with a tenant that refuses to pay, and refuses to leave, and who has his armed cohorts aim firearms at, and stare down law enforcement when they attempt to enforce multiple court orders against him.

        If the Federal Bureau of Land Management has “unbridled power,” why are Mr. Bundy’s cattle still grazing for free on public land? If anything, the BLM has been both patient and restrained in dealing with Mr. Bundy and his armed supporters.

        No amount of added context can put Mr. Bundy’s words into a positive light in any way.

        If you feel otherwise, please explain how any other words he uttered makes what he said into some sort of innocent, pastoral remarks.

        Finally, the opinion of one man, who is committed to Mr. Bundy’s cause, and who has known him for a total of one month, also does not change Mr. Bundy’s words, which speak quite loudly for themselves.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          Apparently words don’t speak for themselves, especially when only partial videos are reported on and the omitted passage would shed light on Mr. Bundy’s intention. Isn’t that exactly why Andrew Breitbart was hammered by the MSM for months with the Shirley Sherrod video? I’m sure the MSM will be coming after the NYTimes any time now. Oh wait, everyone in the MSM did it so there won’t be a mea culpa.

          And if Mr. Bundy’s words are sufficient why do we have a post above (Brettearle) which invents attributions to Mr. Bundy that didn’t exist in Mr. Bundy’s words (like he believes freedom for negros and his cattle are one in the same). Really?

          Or we could go to a black civil rights activist who had a lengthy interview with Mr. Bundy:

          “Innis said he does not believe Bundy to be inherently racist but said that he “clumsily” used a bad metaphor to try and make an important point……”

          http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/cliven-bundy-niger-innis-racism/2014/04/25/id/567836/

          • hennorama

            WftC — TY for your response.

            Contrary to popular belief, I do not control the actions of others. I speak for myself and no one else. I represent only myself, and no one else.

            Therefore, if you want an explanation for the actions and words of others, you should direct your questions to said others.

            I had already watched the entirety of these so-called “unedited remarks” yesterday, and found nothing inconsistent in them. They are all of a piece. (Apologies, but I do not recall the source just now, and shan’t guess.)

            Please allow a renewal of my prior polite request of you:

            If you feel that the “omitted passage” puts Mr. Bundy’s words into a positive light, please explain. Perhaps you might paraphrase Mr. Bundy’s words, to reflect your understanding of them.

            Thanks again for your response.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            I’d prefer to stick with analysis of media inconsistency. Parsing Bundy and psychoanalyzing Bundy doesn’t really interest me. But thanks for asking.

          • hennorama

            WftC — TYFYR.

            No problem.

            I simply thought you might want to support your original statements that:

            “Apparently there was some shoddy journalism in reporting on Bundy. An ‘unedited’ video tape showing didn’t have racist intent.”

            AND

            “Apparently words don’t speak for themselves, especially when only partial videos are reported on and the omitted passage would shed light on Mr. Bundy’s intention.”

            If not, fine by me.

            Thanks again for your response.

        • HonestDebate1

          If the Federal Bureau of Land Management has “unbridled power,” why are Mr. Bundy’s cattle still grazing for free on public land?

          They killed many of his cows. The ones they didn’t kill were refused entry into Utah but the Governor. Maybe you missed it. There are procedures such a putting a lean on his land or even a warrant for his arrest but they came in with guns. This should have gone to the Supreme Court to decide what you seem certain of.

          No amount of words (a concept which you are quite familiar with) can make his remarks the slightest bit relevant to the issue.

        • OnPointComments

          I have a difficult time agreeing that SWAT teams, vehicles, helicopters, attack dogs, snipers, tasers, and a free-speech zone represent restraint. “Unbridled power” must be a description only applicable to nuclear weapons.

          • hennorama

            OPC — Thank you for your response.

            This dispute has been going on for two decades. Mr. Bundy has had numerous opportunities to settle and comply with various court orders, but has refused each and every time. All along, the BLM and Federal courts have given him added opportunities, yet he has refused and ignored all orders to comply.

            Two years ago, the BLM offered to remove, transport, and sell the cattle, with Mr. Bundy getting all proceeds. He refused.

            In 2013, BLM indicated their concern over escalation, and did not impound the cattle.

            Later, in July 2013, Mr. Bundy lost again in Federal Court, and was given 45 days to remove his cattle. He did not.

            In September 2013, after the 45 days had elapsed, BLM observed and counted Mr. Bundy’s cattle on the public land, and sent him a bill for more than $300K. He did not pay.

            In October 2013, the Federal Court found Mr. Bundy to be noncompliant, and authorized enforcement of the July order.

            In March 2014, BLM gave public notice of their intent to remove “unauthorized livestock” in Clark County. They also sent Mr. Bundy a letter informing him of their intentions.

            All of this seems rather patient and restrained, without any “unbridled power.”

            Then in April 2014, when the roundup began, a number of armed individuals gathered in support of Mr. Bundy. A number of well-equipped Federal personnel were also there, and there were some confrontations and arrests.

            Given the volatile circumstances, and the presence of many firearms, the BLM decided that discretion was the better part of valor, and suspended the roundup.

            Again, no “unbridled power” was on display, as Mr. Bundy and his cattle are still in noncompliance status.

            There is a nice timeline available here:

            http://www.mynews3.com/content/news/story/TIMELINE-History-of-land-dispute-between-Cliven/PNXsX3XL3UuTzi7_oHdqKA.cspx

            and some other reporting, here:

            http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/04/15/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-long-fight-between-cliven-bundy-and-the-federal-government/

          • OnPointComments

            I’m not defending Cliven Bundy, but I don’t know of any other landlords that show restraint by bringing in helicopters and swat teams to collect the rent.

          • hennorama

            OPC — TY for your response.

            Given that the Federal authorities are not only “collecting the rent,” but also enforcing court orders to ensure that ongoing illegal activity ceases, they are not like “any other landlords.”

            And given the presence of a number of armed individuals who were in support of Mr. Bundy, it is only prudent to be well-equipped to deal with potential armed opposition to enforcement of the Federal Court orders.

            TY again for your response.

          • OnPointComments

            TY for your comment.

            Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Did Cliven Bundy supporters show up to defend Bundy against the government’s show of unbridled power, or did the government show up with unbridled power to defend itself against the Bundy supporters? It’s a mystery.

          • TFRX

            Pfft.

            Putting women in front of an army, like Ranchy McRuggedo is doing, is for pusies.

  • brettearle

    Anyone who supports Bundy’s personal views, based on his comments quoted below, does not simply need to have his head examined.

    He needs to have a Lobotomy.

    April 24, 2014// “New Yorker”

    Cliven Bundy’s Slavery Delusion

    “I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,” Cliven
    Bundy, the rancher who has spent the past few weeks telling us the many things he claims to know about American freedom, said the other day, at a press conference in Bunkerville, Nevada. The event “drew one reporter and one photographer,” said Adam Nagourney, of the Times, reported,

    “So Mr. Bundy used the time to officiate at what was in effect a town
    meeting with supporters, discussing, in a long, loping discourse, the
    prevalence of abortion, the abuses of welfare and his views on race.”

    The supporters were there because they liked the way that Bundy drove
    agents from the Bureau of Land Management, who had tried to enforce a court order to seize his cattle, off public property. And here are some
    of those views on race, inspired, he said, by the sight of a public-housing project in Nevada, where,

    “there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch—they didn’t have nothing to do”:

    [And he went on to say,]

    “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”

    One of the most delusional parts of Bundy’s musing was the phrase
    “having a family life.” A great moral crime of slavery was depriving
    people of family. There was family love, because that can’t be defeated,
    but it was often violated. Slaves were denied the sovereignty of family
    ties. Your children might be sold, and you’d never see them again. You
    might be raped, and not choose who the father of your children would be.

    Sexual violence had a broad brutality. The pattern of your life was set
    by the rhythm of someone else’s family—a death that broke up an estate
    or a marriage that turned your daughter into someone else’s wedding
    gift. And the great moral delusion of slave owners was that these
    transactions and acts of brutality built one big family household,
    simply by calling an old slave Auntie or Uncle.

    It is bizarre that a man who has ranted about his own freedom for weeks
    can speak so contemptuously about the freedom of others. Given his grand claims regarding what American freedom means, it is inadequate to call him historically illiterate or misinformed about the conditions of
    slavery—the constant, brutal violence that reinforced it and the way it
    robbed people of the ability to make the most basic choices about their
    lives. At the very least, he must know that slaves could not move where
    they wanted to, and could not vote. For him to muse about black
    Americans having less freedom now is to find their voices and their
    volition valueless—to not equate their participation in the democratic
    process as contributing to everyone’s freedom. The other alternative is
    that he has such a degraded view of the souls of black people that he
    doesn’t think these freedoms express anything in them. It suggests that
    his idea of “more freedom” for black people is similar to his notion of
    freedom for his cattle: productive, but under private control and
    private guns, with the absent acquiescence of the federal government.

    This relates to one of the absurdities of the Bundy story. He talks
    about freedom and “ancestral” rights, but grazes his cattle on public
    land—our land, not his homestead—without paying his share. (It
    reminds one of the Confederates who went on about how slavery was a
    matter of states’ rights while insisting on a Fugitive Slave Act, which
    would put federal resources at the disposal of slave catchers, even in
    the streets of New York or Philadelphia.) And yet, Bundy is not just a
    fringe character: he has had the support of Greg Abbott, the Republican
    nominee for governor in Texas, and Senator Rand Paul, of Kentucky.

    Too many conservatives have been charmed by the notion of a cowboy singing the anthem on horseback and threatening to turn guns on bureaucrats.

    They can’t just proclaim themselves stunned here. (Paul, in the wake of
    Nagourney’s report, said that Bundy’s “remarks on race are offensive andI wholeheartedly disagree with him,” according to the Post.)

    The other delusion in Bundy’s comments is that Africans who became
    slaves were lucky to be brought into the shelter of this country’s
    wealth, as if they had arrived in a mansion already built. They made the
    South rich. Lincoln, in his Second Inaugural, rightly argued that what
    the Confederates lost on the battlefield was “all the wealth piled by
    the bondsman’s two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil.” They
    weren’t here to play music on porches until someone was kind enough to
    show them “how to pick cotton.” The astounding conflation that Bundy
    makes is black people working with black people enslaved. Does no other alternative, such as a decently paid job, occur to him? Could someone who claims that the federal government can’t constrain his unbridled spirit have so limited an imagination?

    This is where Bundy exposes more broadly held, and corrosive,
    assumptions: that poverty is a matter of laziness, or, as it is put in
    polite society, “a certain culture.” This, again, is where one cannot
    reassure oneself that Bundy is simply on the fringe. Just get off that
    porch, stretch out your arms and legs, inquire politely about cotton,
    and all will be well. It doesn’t work that way. In America, it never
    has.

    • HonestDebate1

      That’s quite a bit of projection you’ve got going there.

  • John Cedar

    I’m not sure which is sadder. That the MSN latches on to Bundy’s quote and broadcasts it every chance they get, in an attempt to paint the entire right as racist, or that they feel the need to explain in detail what the answer to the question is that Bundy professed to often wonder. I mean…because before the New Yorker explained it to me, I didn’t know the answer to Bundy’s question…”was the negro better off..”

    On second thought, I guess I do know which is sadder. We are used to knowing that the left wing loons (or is it lune’s?), are not bright enough to see the obvious, so it is only natural they would feel the need to explain the obvious. That’s definitely the lessor of the sadders.

    Much sadder is the fact that that they gloss over things like Trayvon saying, “creepy a$$ cracker” and they gloss over the lying prosecutor and lying stripper in the Duke lacrosse case (who is now in prison for murder). They do not use those instances to try to paint the entire left as racists, even though that shoe would fit much more comfortable than the racist shoe they keep trying to squeeze on to the wrong foot of the Tea Party and the GOP.

    • Fredlinskip

      Perhaps you ought to stick to more main Stream media outlets, instead of the fringes?

    • TFRX

      What’s sadder is that that old coot doesn’t recognize my country, but wants to fly my flag.

      One or the other, Ranchy McRuggedo.

  • hennorama

    Another racist old coot?

    “NBA investigates alleged racist remarks by Clippers’ Donald Sterling”

    The NBA said it is conducting an investigation following a report by TMZ late Friday of an audio recording that allegedly captures Los Angeles Clippers owner Donald Sterling making racist statements in the course of an argument with a friend.

    A person identified by TMZ as Sterling can be heard in the recording, said to be made made earlier this month, telling a female friend, identified as V. Stiviano, that he was upset she posted a picture on her Instagram account of herself next to Lakers legend Magic Johnson.

    “It bothers me a lot that you want to broadcast that you’re associating with black people,” Sterling allegedly says, later adding, “I’m just saying, in your … Instagrams, you don’t have to have yourself with, walking with black people.”

    “Don’t put him on an Instagram for the world to have to see so they have to call me. And don’t bring him to my games.”

    http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-nba-donald-sterling-racist-remarks-magic-johnson-20140426,0,7037903.story#ixzz301gtDq7I

    • pete18

      That makes for a very awkward moment if the Clippers win the championship and Sterling tries to join in the celebration on the floor as the Trophy is passed around. Yikes.

    • brettearle

      Go Figure.

      I find it difficult to believe that Sterling could have gone, this long, without being found out.

      Nobody, like Doc Rivers, would ever think of working for a Racist. Much less would Chris Paul, ever think of playing for a club–whose owner is a Racist.

      Maybe there’s more to the story?

      However, one can, I suppose, hide one’s dark side from view. But, after so many years? It should have already come out–in one way or another.

      There, apparently were, in fact, some race discrimination suits, against him.

      Didn’t take long for Schott to be booted out as owner, way back when, in Cincinatti….as I recall.

      The Clippers’ Franchise, these days, is stronger than ever.

      • hennorama

        brettearle — TYFYR (That Yappity-Flappity Yelling Reeks).

        If Mr. Sterling is the person whose words were on the recording, there will be significant sanctions. Given Mr. Sterling’s prior business practices, for which he paid millions of dollars in legal settlement, and which are the subject of current legal proceedings, it would not be any great surprise if he spoke those words.

        Let’s see what the investigation uncovers, and what else might be out there before drawing conclusions. But it doesn’t look good on the face of it.

        • brettearle

          Rivers and Paul have the utmost in Integrity.

          Why would they have joined? For them, money’s everywhere.

          [TYFYR, with explanation, is not necessary: Even with my disastrous showing, last night on the Thread--for Encoded Acronyms and the Like--One must at least try to stretch one's mind.]

        • HonestDebate1

          It’s all well and good for you to say wait and see after you posted propaganda but it hardly rings true.

          As an aside, are you prepared to say Bill Clinton settling out of court with Paula Jones is proof of his guilt?

        • brettearle

          Henn, the comment above, directed at you, is pathetic and outrageous.

          I strongly object to it.

          And it is designed as provocation more than anything else.

          I just hope Chris Anderson sees it.

          And, if it’s erased, out of cowardice, it doesn’t matter.

          I, and a number of others, can vouch for its existence.

          This kind of crap needs to be booted out of here.

          • HonestDebate1

            I am very concerned about the preponderance of left-wing nut jobs attempting to take over this blog. However, I would never suggest censoring them. Let their comments define them as I am happy to let mine define me in the arena of honest debate.

          • hennorama

            brettearle — I defer to your judgment, and will merely observe a fisherman frustrated that his bait is not being risen to.

            And isn’t it Nik?

          • brettearle

            Yes, I just changed it to Web Manager–because I couldn’t remember his first name.

            I know a CA in my personal life.

            I’m tellin’ ya; it’s early Alzheimer’s.

          • HonestDebate1

            Dream on.

          • HonestDebate1

            I think you meant Nick not Chris. There is nothing at all about my comment that is out of line. I am not the one throwing around the word “racist’ with astonishing ease. I don’t roll that way. I think it’s sick and say so often.

        • brettearle

          Yeah, I was mistaking the suspensions, for loss of ownership.

    • HonestDebate1

      Brettearle is right. The one second hand out of context quote is not enough to conclude squat.

      Who knows the back story? Who knows the nexus of the bad blood between Sterling and Magic? Could it be a basketball related rivalry between two teams in the same city? Who knows? How do we know Ms. Stiviano isn’t the racist (I’m not saying she is, I’m making a point) trying to give the impression she has black friends to counter the charge much to the disgust of Sterling? Who knows? Who knows if it was a tasteless joke? There are a thousand scenarios. Nobody knows what is in his heart, if there is an issue let it be handled internally.

      Who knows how many gazillions of dollars he has paid black players and how many millions have subsequently been transferred in to causes to benefit the black community? This is a non story.

      Or maybe he is a racist old coot. Who cares? The world is full of them but we should not go around assuming the worst about people without more than is offered here.

      You are a racist which incidentally does not surprise me because of your repeated and outrageous efforts to explain away the dramatic disparity between black on white violent crime and white on black violent crime given the population ratio. Or your ludicrous and vigorous effort to dismiss 37,000 black on white rapes when the same methods could not find any white on black rapes. Is your racism front page news? No, it’s just disgusting, that’s all.

    • Steve__T

      Magic Johnson was deeply hurt by this, he thought that Sterling was a friend.

      • hennorama

        Steve__T — Thank you for your response.

        Magic Johnson has every right to be upset, as he was specifically mentioned on the recording.

        If Mr. Sterling is the person whose words were on the recording, there will be significant sanctions against him, from all quarters, and justifiably so, IMO.

        CNN and various others have reported that President Obama was asked about this issue, and responded:

        “When ignorant folks want to advertise their ignorance, you don’t really have to do anything, you just let them talk. That’s what happened here,” the President said.

        Obama also said Sterling’s alleged comments are an example of how “the United States continues to wrestle with the legacy of race and slavery and segregation.”

        “That’s still there, the vestiges of discrimination. We’ve made enormous strides, but you’re going to continue to see this percolate up every so often,” Obama said in Malaysia.

        There’s really nothing further to add, pending the results of the NBA’s investigation.

        Source:
        http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/27/us/nba-team-owner-alleged-racist-remarks/

        • Steve__T

          Hennorama – TYFYR.

          Regardless of the investigation by the NBA. Their may be a sudden loss of players that could ruin a lot of things.

          • hennorama

            Steve__T — perhaps.

            It’s certainly an unwelcome distraction for the Clippers players and coaches, who are sort of busy just now, and need no further impositions on their time and focus.

            I expect that we’ll see quick response from the NBA, as this might affect their entire league’s business. It will be interesting to see the ratings of the Clippers games, which I suspect will go up due to increased interest, especially among casual fans and non-fans.

          • Steve__T

            I totally agree.

          • HonestDebate1

            Do you think we should at least wait until we have verification it is actually Sterling on the tape before we lynch him?

            Do you remember how NBC edited the 911 call to make Zimmerman appear to say something he never did? Do you remember when Rush Limbaugh was accused by Media Matters of saying things he never uttered to knock him out of how NFL bid?

            Let’s just chill a bit. Is that too much to ask?

          • hennorama

            Steve__T — an update:

            All of the Clippers players came out to warm up prior to their playoff game, tossed their jackets onto the center circle of the court, exposing the fact that they wore their warmup jerseys inside-out, so that the Clippers name and logo were not visible.

            No comment as yet as to their intended purpose.

  • OnPointComments

    Columnist Adriana Cohen feels like I do: I’m tired of being lectured about capitalism and income inequality by those limousine liberals who have profited immensely and live in extravagant luxury provided by the system they condemn.

    COHEN: ONE-PERCENTER LIZ WARREN MILKS SYSTEM THEN SLAMS IT IN PHONY SOUNDBITES
    http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/columnists/adriana_cohen/2014/04/cohen_one_percenter_liz_warren_milks_system_then_slams

    Excerpt:

    While U.S. Sen. Elizabeth Warren sleeps in her $5 million mansion in Cambridge, and got paid $350,000 to teach just one class at Harvard, she had the audacity to say in an interview with Jon Stewart this week that “the system is rigged to benefit the rich.”

    Yes, Sen. Warren, that would be you.

    Yet liberal hypocrites, like Warren and countless fellow phonies in Hollywood, want to denigrate a capitalist system…once Warren and Hollywood hypocrites are living lavishly in their ivory towers, they preach about “income inequality” and the “little guys.”

  • HonestDebate1

    I am so sick of accusations of racism as a distraction to honest debate. It’s making e cranky.

    • Fredlinskip

      Clive Bundy may have charisma enough for a GOP Prezidential run. No?

      • HonestDebate1

        Just curious Mr. Kettle, do you consider your comment to be circular or absurd? Is this your idea of serious engagement?

        • Fredlinskip

          It was an attempt at humor; with a touch perhaps of reference to the absurdity of anyone actually trying to defend this guy’s views.

          • HonestDebate1

            I know, I was just being a jerk. I’m not above it.

        • nj_v2

          Oh, look…

          “Mr. Kettle”

          “It is also easy to change the subject (assuming it is even addressed), call names,…”

          Greggg needs a bigger clown suit.

          • HonestDebate1

            What’s the matter wit Mr. Kettle? You’re so funny!

    • John Cedar

      You need to grow some thicker skin.
      I am happy that the left has lost on the issues and they are so desperate that this is all they have left to run on.

      If its any consolation, I am 100% sure that you make them much sicker with your honest debate than they are making you with false accusations of racism.

      • HonestDebate1

        Meh, I don’t take it personally but Obama is the worst thing to happen to race relations since slavery. That makes me sick. I can’t help it.

        And I appreciate your observation, I am certainly in the heads of more than one of the liberals around here. I suspect my belligerent refusal to lay down over fear of being labeled a racist makes even some of my friends on the right uncomfortable. If so, thats cool too.

        • Fredlinskip

          You the man.

          “Obama is the worst thing to happen to race relations since slavery”
          Get a grip.
          How about a just a TINY bit of HONESTY now and again?
          Obama is worse for race relations then Jim Crow laws, Ku Klux Klan, segregation, discriminatory labor practices, O. J Simpson trial, Martin Luther King’s murder??

          Or maybe you ARE being honest?! Perhaps like Bundy, the subject we should be discussing here is ignorance.

          The only way you “get in people’s heads” is that when people do make “honest’ attempt to engage you, you’re arguments become increasingly more circular until they progress into absurdity.

          • HonestDebate1

            I think you are confusing race relations with injustice towards blacks. For instance the MLK murder outrage just as many whites, it was a turning point of sorts led in part by Robert Kennedy. It signaled a moment when we as a nation joined hands to denounce the senseless and tragic act. Compare that to the murder of Trayvon Martin when the meme led by the President was divisive.

            It would be interesting to know what you meant by citing the OJ trial.

            My comment was purposefully bombastic and provocative. Can you at least agree that Obama has been a disaster for race relations?

            And yes, I am in the heads of a some liberals here. Some can’t even ignore me by ignoring me which I find hilarious.

            You are entitled to your own definition of absurdity but absurdity is easy to ignore. Honest Debate is not. It is also easy to change the subject (assuming it is even addressed? call names, evoke past comments inaccurately and tell others what they think. I get a lot of that. Lately you are an exception but give it time.

      • hennorama

        John Cedar — if you had stopped after your first sentence, I would have agreed with you.

        Unfortunately, you did not.

    • jefe68

      To bad.

  • HonestDebate1

    Bill Maher thought he was making a joke. He said Republicans are trying to suppress the black vote by posting billboards with a picture of a voting booth and the caption, “Don’t vote, there’s ghost in there”. Aside from the bad grammar, how could he be more insulting to blacks? I have made the point that the only way anyone can have their right to vote suppressed is if they are stupid as hell. Why do so many liberals imply blacks are stupid as hell and pay no price for their outrageous condescension?

    • Alchemical Reaction

      There are morons of every race, class and creed.

      • HonestDebate1

        Absolutely.

      • John Cedar

        It is a statistical fact that the democrats depend on more morons to win elections than the republicans do.

        • jimino

          I would never have guessed you to be a Democrat. Crazy world.

          • John Cedar

            You shouldn’t have to guess. My numerous moderate comments here, should be enough for anyone to conclude I am a democrat, beyond a reasonable doubt.

  • hennorama

    To those interested in further reporting on Cliven Bundy’s deep thoughts, and especially to those who think he might have been taken out of context, there’s this, from the WaPo ‘Post Politics’ blog, a piece by Aaron Blake and Natalie Jennings titled Prior to slavery comments, Bundy said minority groups are ‘against us’ :

    In video of the entire speech, which was obtained first by the Washington Post and shot by someone who describes himself as a Bundy supporter, Bundy said that he “hardly ever” saw a black person until he was almost a teenager and also noted that he is surrounded today by white faces.

    “Where is our colored brother? Where is our Mexican brother? Where is our Chinese — where are they?” Bundy said. “They’re just as much American as we are, and they’re not with us. If they’re not with us, they’re going to be against us.”

    Bundy then recalled the time he worked on the east side of Los Angeles during the Watts riots of 1965. He said he sought refuge in a hotel when things got particularly dicey.

    “About two blocks south of Harbor Freeway, they were setting the world on fire,” Bundy said. “And who was setting it on fire? It wasn’t We the People. It was the Negro groups — people theirself were setting their own city on fire and raping their own city and stealing from their own city.”

    Bundy recalled that, as he was leaving the city, two cars full of what he called “black boys” pulled up alongside him. He said he later took an exit and got off the freeway.

    Before making the comments that made news Thursday, Bundy tied up his point, saying the riots resulted from people not having their freedoms. He said the country needs to avoid returning to those days.

    “We’ve progressed quite a bit from that day until now, and we sure don’t want to go back,” Bundy said. “We sure don’t want these colored people to have to go back to that point. We sure don’t want these Mexican people to go back to that point. And we can make a difference right now by taking care of some of these bureaucracies and do it in a peaceful way.”

    Source:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/04/24/prior-to-slavery-comments-bundy-said-minority-groups-are-against-us/

    Anyone care to explain how the remarks that have previously made the rounds might somehow be improved by Mr. Bundy having first said all of the quoted remarks above?

    (Aside to WorriedfortheCountry: this is the source where I first viewed the more complete video of Mr. Bundy’s controversial remarks, and which I had previously posted on Fri. April 25, 2014 at 6:21 PM (GMT): http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/04/24/cliven_bundy_now_let_me_talk_about_the_spanish_people.html In the same post, I linked to an article by Ezra Klein on vox.com [link below], which itself linked to the WaPo piece quoted above. I had read both the vox.com piece and the WaPo piece prior to posting the afore-mentioned links. )

    http://www.vox.com/2014/4/25/5651432/cliven-bundy-spanish-people

    • HonestDebate1

      Why are you so invested in this? What possible relevance does it have the the grazing issue? It is not even tangentially related.

      And what did he get wrong about the Watts riots? Where is the racism in his description? And why are you reading Vox? What on earth is your purpose?

      • jefe68

        Why are you so invested in this?

        • HonestDebate1

          I am invested in honest debate and Hennorama is the antithesis of that notion. I must point out that OPC is keeping the focus where it should be brilliantly. I am guilty of getting on my soapbox to counter irrelevant tangents which is probably a waste of time.

          • jefe68

            Sorry to bust your bubble, but what you are invested in is not what one would call “honest debate”. You might think you are, but you’re not.

          • HonestDebate1

            You are entitled to your opinion.

          • hennorama

            jefe68 — again please pardon the interjection.

            The individual to whom you replied might actually believe he is engaged in so-called “honest debate,” as he defines it.

          • HonestDebate1
    • OnPointComments

      The words of Cliven Bundy are a distraction from the real issue: an out-of-control federal government, of which the BLM is a small part. Before the Bundy affair, who heard the words “Bureau of Land Management” and thought helicopters and swat teams at a cost of over $3 million dollars to collect a $1 million dollar debt? Right off the top of my head, we’ve witnessed: the IRS used as a political weapon, and nearly 70% of its employees rewarded with bonuses and time off (including employees who purposely understated their own taxes); the NSA collecting data on every US citizen and on the leaders of our allies in foreign governments; the DOJ choosing which laws to enforce, and seizing records of journalists; the EPA declaring that the ditch in your yard is a navigable waterway; the VA negligently allowing veterans to die, with the person in charge receiving a bonus for doing so; a $100 million dollar political contributor buying a veto of a pipeline; the Department of Education imposing discipline quotas; the country in debt more than $150,000 for every taxpayer.

      Please forgive me if I don’t concern myself with the musings of Cliven Bundy; I’ve got bigger things to worry about.

      • HonestDebate1

        Bingo.

      • hennorama

        OPC – Thank you for your response

        Let me see if I have this right:

        You believe that enforcing the multiple Federal Court orders against Mr. Bundy, which he has ignored since November 1998, and are related to both his failure to pay, and failure to remove his cattle from public land as ordered, is part of “an out-of-control federal government.”

        You also previously posited some sort of conspiracy, that “The BLM wanted Cliven Bundy out of the 600,000-acre Gold Butte area so the agency could use the land for future solar projects, including one represented by Reid’s son, and de facto buffer zones surrounding the solar farms, an energy source favored by the Obama administration.”

        You also seem to believe that enforcing the multiple Federal Court orders against Mr. Bundy is an example of “unbridled power,” as WorriedfortheCountry has described it, despite what seems more fairly described as patient, incremental efforts to enforce Federal Court orders, as which has not yet had any discernible effect, as the subject cattle are still grazing on the subject public land.

        Please correct any misinterpretations.

        Please excuse that the balance of your interesting comment will be allowed to pass unremarked upon, as it is rather far afield, IMO.

        Mr. Bundy’s words on “these colored people” and “these Mexican people,” and “the Negro,” and “the Spanish people,” are not related directly to the enforcement of the Federal Court orders against him.

        However, Mr. Bundy has been given a national platform to express his various views, and has been supported by a number of politicians, pundits, and members of the public, many of whom are now, à la Captain Renault in Casablanca, “shocked, shocked to find that …” Mr. Bundy holds other rather extreme views, in addition to his non-recognition of Federal authority and jurisdiction.

        This should be no surprise to anyone.

        That you are unconcerned and unworried about Mr. Bundy’s deep thoughts is not unreasonable, and had he not been given a national platform to air his various views, he would be left to stew in his own juices. However, his comments and attitudes have led others to physically and virtually join him, which is indeed worrisome.

        Thanks again for your response.

        • OnPointComments

          Do I think it is foolish to spend over $3 million dollars to collect a $1 million dollar debt? Absolutely. Do I think court orders against Bundy can be enforced without a full-scale armed assault force, and that the mobilization of armed personnel, SWAT teams, vehicles, helicopters, attack dogs, snipers, tasers, and a free-speech zone represents “unbridled power”? Absolutely. Do I think it’s possible, or perhaps likely, that there is something else going on besides the deep, abiding concern of the federal government over a couple of hundred cattle grazing for free on government land? Yes, I do. Do I care about Mr. Bundy’s extreme views on race, or any other subject for that matter? Not a whit.

          • hennorama

            OPC — Thank you again for your response.

            Was it an attempt at correcting any misinterpretations that may be present in my preceding comment, or was it something else?

            A few questions, in an effort to promote mutual understanding:

            What enforcement measures do you think would be effective, given that Mr. Bundy has ignored all prior efforts for more than 15 years?

            What enforcement efforts do you think would get Mr. Bundy to stop grazing his cattle on the subject public land, given that he has not done so for more than 20 years?

            What enforcement efforts do you think should be employed if there are a number of armed individuals arrayed against such efforts, and given that Mr. Bundy has expressed a “by whatever means necessary” opposition to enforcement?

            What amount of money do you think is appropriate to be expended to enforce Federal Court rulings? Would you answer differently if the Federal government was not a party to the case?

            Do you have anything other than innuendo and refuted conspiracy theories to support your suspicions that “there is something else going on”?

            Thanks again for your response.

          • HonestDebate1

            If OPC does not answer your silly questions then you should take that as a sure sign that you have won whatever game it is your are playing which certainly has nothing to do with mutual understanding.

            You certainly understand the concept of putting a lean on property or even a warrant for arrest preceding a defacto military invasion.

          • OnPointComments

            My previous comment was to remove any doubts you might have about my position.

            With the stipulation that federal land management laws are not my forte, it would be more reasonable to either subpoena Cliven Bundy into a court of law and arrest and imprison him; or send officers to his home, unannounced, to arrest and imprison him; or catch him on the street, unannounced, and arrest and imprison him. Depriving Mr. Bundy of his freedom might defuse the situation and motivate Mr. Bundy. If the government has not already done so, file liens against all of his property, depriving him of the ability to sell the property without the government getting its share. Notify local and regional livestock auctions and commodity markets of the liens. Sell his ranch at auction. Garnish his social security and any other sources of income.

            I imagine Hennorama in a civics class, taking a test, and faced with the question: What are reasonable steps the government can take against a private citizen to collect a debt owed to the government? My imagination isn’t so vivid that I believe you’d answer “Snipers! SWAT teams!”

            Let’s compare two situations. First, we have Mr. Bundy who is reneging on $50,000 a year or so of grazing fees, and we know the resources the federal government has marshaled to collect this money. Second, we have a TIGTA report on erroneous EITC payments of up to $15 billion dollars in a single year and over $110 billion dollars in ten years, that states the IRS is not in compliance with an Executive Order for reducing improper payments and hasn’t been in compliance for years, and what plan do they come up with to correct the situation? Communication and outreach. In summary: $1,000,000 debt – send in the SWAT team; $110 billion in erroneous payments – talk about it.

            As the saying goes, I may have been born at night, but it wasn’t last night. Do I have anything other than a thinking, critical mind that makes me suspect that there must be something else driving the government in its pursuit of Mr. Bundy and his debt? No.

          • hennorama

            OPC – TYFYR, and so stipulated.

            With a similar caveat, a question:

            Has Mr. Bundy done anything that would make him subject to arrest and imprisonment?

            As a comment, I find it interesting that you would suggest that Mr. Bundy might be locked up, but that efforts to round up his cattle might be off limits or excessive.

            Liens might be an eventually effective means to collect any payments of money owed, but they do not impact the basic problem, which is that Mr. Bundy’s cattle are still grazing on public land, in violation of multiple Federal Court orders. In addition, transferals of ownership and other methods can be employed to make liens to collect sums Mr. Bundy owes an impossibility.

            Similarly, subpoenas for what, exactly? The Federal Court has already decided the cases and issued order and authorization to enforce said orders. Why might Mr. Bundy be subpoenaed?

            There are two separate issues involved here; it’s not simply a matter of debt collection:

            cattle grazing on public land without a permit and in violation of multiple Federal Court orders

            fees and penalties owed

            Your suggested remedies do nothing to address the first issue.

            Please again excuse the lack of response to the balance of your rhetoric.

            Thanks again for your response, and for the clarification of your views. That has aided in my understanding of them, which has been one of my goals throughout.

      • jefe68

        No, they are not a distraction. This mans character and moral compass are part of the story. The mans a scofflaw, period.

        • OnPointComments

          Has there been anyone of note who has agreed with or supported Cliven Bundy’s statements?

          • jefe68

            Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) , Dana Loesch, Rep. Paul Gosar (R-AZ), Sean Hannity up until a few days ago.

          • HonestDebate1

            Does someone need to explain to you how far you missed the point? Try again but first apologize immediately.

          • jefe68

            The point is Bundy is out to lunch and a scofflaw.

            Do you really think you have the right to demand anything of anybody? Let alone comments made on this forum. I could find some real choice words to describe people of your ilk, but it’s not worth it.

            The self-righteous and indignation act is also tiresome.

            I guess it’s time for Bugs…

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxGgnI6kCrs

          • HonestDebate1

            OPC asked for examples of anyone who supports Bundy’s comments. The people you mentioned did not. They supported the notion there was overreach, they didn’t even necessarily support his issue. Yet you imply they are racist supporting his comments. You should be ashamed of your implication… or maybe you’re just a shade of purple… or something. Either way, now that I’ve had to explain it to you, apologize immediately.

          • jefe68

            Yeah, they did. And have not yet attempted to distance themselves from him. Again you have a comprehension problem. The list of right wingers I posted support Bundy and have yet to distance themselves from this lowlife since he has made his racist remarks.

            Ive not implied anything. You assumed, as you do all the time. Then you get on get all self righteous and make demands. Which makes you look like a donkey’s nether region.

          • HonestDebate1

            Yea yea whatever, if you cannot distinguish between distancing oneself from the person and the issue then I cannot help you. I think the VW bug is cool that doesn’t mean I like Hitler.

          • jefe68

            Wow, right back to the lack of comprehension problem.

            If you align yourself to Bundy’s cause and use it to make talking points on news programs, then you are supporting the man, and his ideology. In the case of Hannity, well he was using Bundy for show fodder up until a few days ago.
            The issue is until Bundy made his absurd remarks some segments on the right were supporting him.

            Some food for thought: The grazing fees for BLM owned land is $1.35 per head per month, on private land in Nevada it is $16.50. Seems to me Mr. Bundy was getting a pretty good deal.

            You are aware this guy refused to recognize the Federal government and that’s why he has landed in the mess he’s in. Funny how he wraps himself in the Stars and Stripes while despairing the very government it represents.

          • HonestDebate1

            “If you align yourself to Bundy’s cause and use it to make talking points on news programs, then you are supporting the man, and his ideology.”

            Incredibly vacuous on many fronts, just unbelievably ignorant and shallow. And again I never even said Bundy was in the right, neither did Hannity for that matter. Please don’t talk to me about comprehension.

          • jefe68

            And here I thought is was not about you.
            The only ignorance and vacuousness I see is in the lions share of the nonsense you post. The above which is a good example.

          • HonestDebate1

            If you can read my comments and conclude they are about me then God bless your unthinking self.

  • HonestDebate1

    And now Obama has weighed in on the comments allegedly made by the LA Clippers owner. Terrific. Why is the President of the United States of America commenting on what is in a private citizens heart?

  • John Cedar

    “Race hate spewing Clippers owner only gave to Democrats”
    http://dailycaller.com/2014/04/26/race-hate-spewing-clippers-owner-is-democratic-donor/

    • HonestDebate1

      Naturally.

    • TFRX

      Tucker the Fncker’s spot leads the stupidity sweepstakes on Donald Sterling.

      For those who don’t bother with Tucker Carlson (always a good idea), Donald Sterling’s allegiance totals $6000, none since over 20 years ago. http://basketball.realgm.com/article/216307

      Try better. Actually–this is your best, isn’t it?

      • HonestDebate1

        You are hilarious! Save yourself some embarrassment and at least look at the link Mr. Cedar provided which details the when and where the money was donated in the second paragraph.

        Tucker Carlson was completely transparent and accurate. This is just too funny!

        • jefe68

          Which is what TFRX pointed out.
          The headline in the Dailycaller is nothing short of junk sensationalism.

          Comprehension issues, yet again.

          • HonestDebate1

            Junk journalism that accurately, without misleading anyone, wrote exactly what TRFX wrote. And you say I can’t comprehend? My belly hurts from laughing so hard!

          • jefe68

            You think the dailycaller is real journalism?
            That sound you’re hearing is the world laughing at you and that has-been Tucker Carlson.

          • HonestDebate1

            Yes I do, I think Tucker Carlson is fine. I have no problem with him and evidently he even passes muster for TRFX’s criteria.

          • TFRX

            Hahahaha.

          • hennorama

            jefe68 — please pardon the interjection, but one can’t help but notice the concepts of relevance and distraction here, which seem to be of some great import in other cases to the individual to whom you replied, but perhaps not here.

            Please carry on, and again, pardon the interjection.

          • HonestDebate1

            Dude, it’s not bait, it’s debate. Quit rising to it. Get me out of your head.

        • TFRX

          Haul the junk of the Daily Caller away with your trash.

      • John Cedar

        Here’s a game recap for you:
        1. The crackpots pointed out a rich white guy that said racist remarks.
        2. I pointed out that the rich white guy only donates to democrats.
        3. You insulted Tucker.

        I don’t want to put in any more effort than your game requires.
        Maybe you should be honest about things instead of playing a game.

        • TFRX

          Tucker the Fncker’s word is not worth the spit on the ground.

          Take it away.

        • TFRX

          ‘Gives’ v. ‘gave 20+ years ago’?

          You can fix your verb tense anytime you want, bub.

  • HonestDebate1

    Is it time to revisit the notion that Malaysian flight 370 landed safely somewhere? Could there be a weapon and a dastardly plan in waiting?

    • Fredlinskip

      Maybe they found the island Elvis, Marilyn Monroe, and King Kong have been living on!

      • HonestDebate1

        Nah, but Amelia Earhart is a different story.

    • tbphkm33

      Nope – it would require some technical/mechanical skills to service the plane at this point, especially if it was sitting at an old abandoned jungle/island strip for the past month. These planes are almost like living organisms. Does not take much downtime before they require maintenance to get back up in the air. The longer an advanced plane like the 777 sits, the more complex the service equipment it requires.

      • HonestDebate1

        Sure but that doesn’t preclude the notion that it landed somewhere. If it did then that in itself would indicate a sophistication far beyond what anyone thought possible.

        However, I am not suggested it happened and doubt it did. I just find it amazing there has been no sign of it by now. I also find it impossible to imagine it is at the bottom of the sea intact. I suppose it’s possible that there was a Sully type landing on the water but it seems doubtful. Whatever happened, it is a complex mystery. What do you think?

  • HonestDebate1

    I was reminded earlier of President Obama’s statement, “You didn’t build that”. It was implied the context was missing as if the tired, worn out message isn’t old as the hills predating Obama’s Presidency if not birth. I am happy to address the silly notion. The theory goes that anyone who has succeeded in life did so with the help of a government that provided infrastructure of one kind or another. The premise is whacked and backwards. The government could not have done squat without we the people. It was our money and our labor. Another implication is that somehow the infrastructure is not just as available to the poor as it s the rich. The only difference is the rich paid more for it.

    Nope, Obama’s statement was just another example of his divisive politics. It is nothing more that a rhetorical tool to divide the rich and the poor just like he used Trayvon Martin, Skip Gates and others to divide us between races. Or saving Medicare as a tool to pit the old against the young. Or the phony war on women to divide us regarding sex. This is awful.

  • HonestDebate1

    In my town, I don’t get Friday’s show until Sundays. Good Lord! I had to turn it off. Hopefully the segment I heard was not indicative of the entire show. The main theme I heard was Bundy is a racist therefore the right is racist. Mr. Beaty said the Roberts court was increasingly giving blacks the message they don’t belong here. An unbelievably unthinking caller named Carl said the SCOTUS decision meant they think racism no longer exist. The irrelevant and edited Bundy comments were played and the same conflation that’s happening on this blog was made. It was absolutely incredible and well below the standard we should expect. To be fair Mr. Ashbrook did give the appropriate pushback and even seemed to show a bit outrage at the ludicrous accusations but the buck stops with him.

  • hennorama

    The Los Angeles Clippers issued a statement yesterday, in response to a widely-publicized recording that some claim is of the voice of Donald Sterling, owner of the team, and which contains some, to be more than polite, controversial remarks.

    Notably absent from the statement: any denial that Mr. Sterling is the person speaking on the recording.

    The statement makes it clear that team President Andy Roeser has spoken to Mr. Sterling about this recording, prior to the release of the statement.

    Here’s the non-denial denial, in one sentence from the statement:

    “Mr. Sterling is emphatic that what is reflected on that recording is not consistent with, nor does it reflect his views, beliefs or feelings.”

    The complete statement is contained in this piece on latimes.com:

    http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-donald-sterling-clippers-statement-20140426,0,2737396.story#ixzz308Rzxycs

    • brettearle

      I still can’t reconcile how a Racist Owner could have gone on, this long–for decades–without being found out.

      Although Elgin Baylor, I believe, did file a Discrimination suit, he was employed as general manager for many years.

      Why would one of the greatest players, who had ever played the game–presumably well off, even though in his day, Baylor would not have commanded a large salary by comparison to today–stay with such Reprobate.

      If Sterling were an out and out Racist, wouldn’t have Baylor discovered by 2010–or whenever he left.

      What’s more Former NBA stars, and current NBA stars, know each other and often `hang out’ together.

      And even in the following case, they did not, why wouldn’t Baylor have given Doc Rivers and Chris Paul a heads-up–if by some unusual chance, they had not found out about Sterling through other means.

      With regard to NBA prospects, opposition research is done exhaustively on possile draft picks.

      I would imagine that the `personal record’ of existing individuals–who are already part of the NBA for many years–would be much more accessible and attainable.

      I am not saying Sterling is a good guy, but something about this story doesn’t add up.

      • HonestDebate1

        “I admit I am a racist, but I’ve been in recovery for decades.” -Hennorama

        What is worse being a racist or clinging to it for decades?

        Look Brettearle, if the remarks came from Sterling they look bad but you are correct to judge the man by his actions. Those actions convinced the NAACP to award him. Those actions included giving gazillions to black players and by extension black communities. I have zero tolerance for racists but the question is who determines what is in a man’s heart. IMHO it’s not the press and it’s not admitted racists opting on a stupid blog.

        • Don_B1

          Humans have been shown to have “reptilian” portions [developed in the reptilian life forms from which we evolved] of their brains which embody emotional responses to external events, which most humans learn to deny with frontal lobe decisions that overrule those responses.

          It should prove a point that white or black children who grow up in mixed-race family do not have those “reptilian” responses to outsiders of the different race. But while this shows that the response can be prevented from developing, it may be difficult to unlearn once learned, though it can be effectively suppressed.

          Without a fuller context to Hennorama’s comment [no link again], I suspect that it was that reptilian response that Hennorama was alluding to, not an full blown racist opinion as evinced from comments attributed to Mr. Sterling, or those made by Mr. Bundy.

          Note that Mr. Sterling had accepted multimillion dollar judgements against him for racial discriminations in the past.

          What signs of remorse Mr. Sterling did or did not make to win the advocacy of the LA unit of the NCAAP, I have no idea, but it has now been withdrawn.

          As to the great player, Elgin Baylor, he might not have seen the wide-open job opportunities for Black coaches in his day that exists today, but wanted to try to open some doors by demonstrating his ability to play that role.

          • HonestDebate1

            I’ll link it yet again. You can call her a reptile if you want but it’s not an excuse. It’s sick.

            http://onpoint.wbur.org/2014/04/23/aereo-cord-cutting-tv-scotus#comment-1351880245

          • Don_B1

            You have that part of the brain structure too, you know!

          • jefe68

            Which he proves day in and day out…

          • HonestDebate1

            I do not give a whit about the color of skin.

          • hennorama

            Don_B1 — now that you’ve had time to review the context of my remarks, do you have any comment?

      • hennorama

        brettearle — thank you for your response.

        You make some fair points, but as you wrote, Elgin Baylor made some pretty hair-raising allegations in his wrongful termination lawsuit against Mr. Sterling and others, a lawsuit he ultimately lost.

        I certainly do not know what’s in Mr. Sterling’s heart, but he has yet to deny that the recording is of his words and voice. If it was not his words and voice, one would expect an immediate and vehement denial, but thus far — zippo.

        OTOH, Mr. Sterling’s girlfriend is being sued by “the Sterling family” (read: Mrs. Sterling) over $1.8 million in gifts she was given by Mr. Sterling. Here’s the part of the Clippers’ statement that discusses this:

        “We do know that the woman on the tape — who we believe released it to TMZ — is the defendant in a lawsuit brought by the Sterling family alleging that she embezzled more than $1.8 million, who told Mr. Sterling that she would “get even.”

        This seems more like an episode of The Real Housewives of Orange County than real life.

        Perhaps there will be a new daytime drama series coming soon: “As The Stomach Churns.”

        TYAFYR.

        • brettearle

          “Or The Guiding Blight”

          Well said and informative.

          I believe that Sterling has come out, through a team spokesman, and has denied that what came out is representative of his views.

          He also, I believe, claimed that the tape was excised or edited…something to that effect.

          I realize that i could look them up, but if you care to, in a short precis, what did Baylor claim.

          I hate to say this, but, frankly, we often judge people by the features on their face–no metaphorical pun here to skin color–and Sterling `looks’ like a Sleaze Ball.

          Doesn’t mean he is, though.

          • hennorama

            brettearle — [insert the usual pleasantries] + [g.]

            The LA Times article linked to in my OP contains the entire Clippers statement. It pretty much the epitome of the artful non-denial denial.

            More from the LAT (I had the article “up”):

            In the original lawsuit, Baylor said that Sterling had a “vision of a Southern plantation-type structure” for the Clippers and accused the owner of a “pervasive and ongoing racist attitude” during long-ago contract negotiations with Danny Manning. The lawsuit also quoted Sterling as telling Manning’s agent, “I’m offering you a lot of money for a poor black kid.”

            Baylor alleged Sterling said he wanted the Clippers to be “composed of ‘poor black boys from the South’ and a white head coach.”

            Baylor also claimed that his salary had been frozen at $350,000 a year since 2003 while “the Caucasian head coach was given a four-year, $22-million contract.”

            See:
            http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-elgin-baylor-donald-sterling-20140426,0,877251.story

            Oh, and before I forget, again from the LA Times website today:

            “NAACP drops plan to honor Donald Sterling amid recording controversy”

            See:
            http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-naacp-donald-sterling-award-racist-tape-controversy-20140427,0,2263229.story#ixzz307awVB69

          • HonestDebate1

            My Hornets wanted Danny Manning and he wanted them but Shinn blew it. Then we lost a shot at Horace Grant who signed with Orlando. We ended up with Robert Parish.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Hey, The Chief had a pretty good run here in Boston. He came in one of the most lopsided trades in history — it also brought in Kevin McHale and three championships — all for legendary Joe Barry Carroll.

            Did you stay with the Hornet(Pelicans) or did you move on with the Bobcats?

            Speaking of The Bobcats, do you think Robert Johnson or Michael Jordan would get the same kind of treatment if they were caught on tape making overtly racist comments?

          • brettearle

            Are you as PO’d at Ainge, as I am?

            Posey
            T. Allen
            Perk
            R. Allen

            And what do we have to show for it?

            Jeff Green

            Pathetic.

          • Ray in VT

            Perkins hasn’t exactly paid great dividends for OKC, but Boston has missed having a guy in the middle. I know with Ray Allen that he took less money to play in Miami. Those teams that are built to win big can lure in those guys who want to get some hardware.

          • brettearle

            I think players fit in differently with different teams.

            I would argue that, among many things, Perkins was more valuable to Boston than he is to OKC.

            Perkins, among many things, ran interference for RA, and augmented KG’s inside defense, noticeably.

            What’s more, he has been used consistently, at least 20 minutes a game, average. Maybe more.

            That means that 3 years out, a very competitive team still needs him in there, close to half the game.

            RA left because Ainge couldn’t find a way to keep others’ mouths shut about trades.

            He also left because Rivers wouldn’t sit him down with Rondo, to discuss their differences.

            What’s more, Rivers was not straight with RA about his playing time.

            RA would have taken a home-town discount. No question.

            But in the end, he was PO’d at Ainge, Rondo, and even Rivers.

            That’s why he bolted.

            Ainge could have done something about it.

            But he didn’t.

            And guess who won the Heat championship in 2013?

            Nobody will even discuss it in Boston sports media.

          • Ray in VT

            I think, though, that Ray Allen may have also seen the writing on the wall. The Celtics were getting old, and they were going to have a hard time competing against younger, more athletic teams, like the Heat. I’m not absolving Rivers or Ainge of any guilt for anything that went down in Boston, but the clock was running out on the Celtics fast.

          • brettearle

            Your point’s partially valid.

            But I think he would have stayed, 2 years ago. He knew that the other TWO were returning.

            But, I admit that I simply have a huge, visceral dislike for Ainge’s reign in office.

            He is protected and very much overrated, in my view about RA and the rest.

            My attitude, of course, influences my view.

          • Ray in VT

            I’ve liked some of what I’ve seen from the young guys (Sullinger and Olynyk, although the former is undersized at PF and the latter I sort of feel is more like a finesse center than a banger like Perkins). If Rondo is back and they get a good pick in the draft, then a good team may only be a year or two away.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Jeff Green — work in progress — the next Paul Pierce. Or he’s on the table for another trade. Just ask Danny one day or the next or the next.

            Actually, I’ve tuned out to the Cs. Full Bruins mode now.

          • brettearle

            Wise man.

          • HonestDebate1

            I used to be a huge fan and went to many Hornets games in the hey day. Mugsey Bogues was great, we had Larry Johnson and drafted Alonzo Mourning. The Hornets were the team that drafted Kobe but he was traded. I got to see many greats in person like Jordan, Bird and Magic.

            It got real messy when they left and I never warmed to the Bobcats. I quit following the NBA altogether. I didn’t even know they changed their name to the Pelicans until just now.

            IMO a channel called the “Black Entertainment Network” is overtly racist before you even get passed the name. I cannot imagine a “White Entertainment Network” being tolerated. So no.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Oh boy, Kobe Bryant for Vlade Divac? Ouch. That one stings.

          • brettearle

            Individually, the examples, above, are Right on the Edge.

            Or slightly over.

            Collectively, they’re definitely Racist.

            Thank you.

            Still, why would so many put up with it?

            Simply because of the Money?

            Looks more and more likely.

          • hennorama

            brettearle — again, the usual here.

            Speculation: there are a very limited number of positions in the NBA, especially in the front offices.

            Speculation, backed up by Charles Barkley’s words today: the players play for each other and their coach, not for the owner, meaning that the owner’s identity, personality, character, etc. are low down the list of considerations for players who have some choice of which team they might play for.

          • brettearle

            Puts it in stronger context.

          • hennorama

            Thanks. I do what I can.

          • brettearle

            I remember it well.

            What about,

            “Is this Heaven?”

            “No, it’s Iowa.”

            Is it safe to write this?

  • HonestDebate1

    Harry Reid was impressed with Obama because he was “light-skinned” with “no negro dialect unless he wanted to have one”. No problem.

    Bill Clinton told Ted Kennedy Obama should be serving them coffee.

    “You cannot go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I’m not joking!” – Joe Biden, Vice President

    Joe Biden said Obama was unique because he was clean, articulate and black.

    Hillary Clinton called political operative Paul Fray a f*cking Jew b@stard.

    LBJ said the Negros were getting uppity.

    And don’t get me started on Robert “sheets” Byrd.

    This list goes on and on and they came not from ranchers or basketball owners. They came for leaders of the Democrat party.

    • Ray in VT

      Remind me again which party has members taking the brave stand that businesses should be able to discriminate against customers on the basis of race? Where is this “principled” opposition to the Civil Rights Act coming from? Which party had a top leader say that America would have been better off if a segregationist had won the 1948 presidential election?

      • HonestDebate1

        “I do not think it is an exaggeration at all to say to my friend from West Virginia that he would have been a great senator at any moment,… He would have been right at the founding of this country. He would have been in the leadership crafting this Constitution. He would have been right during the great conflict of Civil War in this nation.” -Chris Dodd

        Keep in mind my point here, I never said racism was limited to one party. Ask Trent Lott. I am talking about the way they are treated by the press who tells the sheep what to think. And the shallow inferences of racism are invented as you seem to be doing with Rand Paul. If you think he’s a racist then just say it.

        • Ray in VT

          That’s what you get from a North Carolina states-rights conservative, but at least he saw the light later in his life, unlike, say, Jesse Helms, who continued his race-baiting tactics long after others had largely abandoned such tactics.

          • HonestDebate1

            Who are you talking about? Dodd is from Connecticut, Paul is from Kentucky, Lott was from Mississippi and “Sheets” Byrd was from WV.

            Helms was criticized for an accurate ad against Harvey Gantt, I remember it well. When he told Carole Mousley Braun he was going to whistle “Dixie” until she cried, it was funny. They worked well together and accomplished much. But his greatest moment IMO was when Democrats demanded a hearing on why the nomination of William Weld as Ambassador to Mexico was denied. I disagreed with Helms on that but he was in the right and the hearing was a classic. He was a good man, ask Bono.

            Check it out, it’s awesome. Richard Lugar forced the hearing. Helms praised Biden and bipartisanship before the fireworks.

            http://www.c-span.org/video/?90869-1/william-weld-nomination

          • Ray in VT

            That shows your knowledge of the facts beyond your talking points.

            Oh yes, the oppressed white person getting denied a job because they gave your job to a minority. Very accurate. I also love his opposition to making Martin Luther King Day a federal holiday, as well as his denigration of gays and lesbians. After all, that was where AIDS was coming from, so we didn’t really need to research it. Maybe that’s why Ted Cruz thinks that we need 100 more Jesse Helms. Such views have some currency in parts of the GOP.

          • HonestDebate1

            I agree with Cruz. Aside from GWB, who did more for AIDS than Helms? You don’t know what you are taking about. Quit while you’re behind.

          • Ray in VT

            Did more for AIDS, you mean like opposing funding that ended up costing people their lives? Just keep on believing in whatever alternate view or reality you believe it. It doesn’t make it factually accurate, but who needs facts when one has beliefs?

          • TFRX

            Shrub did have that sub-Saharan Africa program about AIDS. Unalloyed good.

            However, it’s cute to hear HD try to play that “one hit wonder” of a policy success into a four-hour concert.

          • HonestDebate1

            Yadda yadda.

          • Ray in VT

            That’s sick.

          • TFRX

            You say you’re a musician who plays on stage. You’re not the kind who knows when the audience has had enough of your act.

          • HonestDebate1

            This is a platform not a stage. I go to where the sinners are without regard to who objects.

            I don’t mix politics and music.

          • Ray in VT

            I think that former President Bush should be praised for his AIDS effort, although I think that pushing money towards abstinence programs, which have generally shown to be not very effective, was misguided.

          • HonestDebate1
          • Ray in VT
          • HonestDebate1

            Exactly, Helms didn’t stop squat but certainly did much good after his epiphany. What kind of monster doesn’t recognize and forgive a repented heart? Let the poor man rest in peace. You’re tactics are despicable.

            Look at the video and the mutual lovefest with Biden around the 15 minute mark.

          • Ray in VT

            Took him long enough, and how does that help the Americans who died because of people like Helms who didn’t see the need to fight a disease that was just a problem for the “degenerate” gays, because heterosexuals in America don’t get it of course.

            Funny that you defend Helms and condemn me for doing exactly what you are doing to that native son of North Carolina, Robert Byrd. What was that about despicable tactics?

            Byrd greatly changed his tune on civil rights and got very favorable ratings for his work later on. Helms not so much.

          • HonestDebate1

            No, actually the answer was “a Godless Northerner from a lily white State”.

            And do you really want to compare “Sheets” Byrd with Jesse Helms? Seriously?

            Helms wasn’t a member of the KKK. He didn’t rise to the level of Exalted Cyclops. Byrd was elected unanimously because of his work as Kleagle, in other words he recruited young minds vociferously, leaving a legacy of hate spread far and wide.

            You have to conflate opposition with racist laws like affirmative action with racism and other despicable tactics to scream your obscenity about Helms. Helms never said anything approaching words like this quote from Byrd:

            “I shall never fight in the armed forces with a negro by my side … Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds.”

            And remember what Dodd said, specifying “at any moment”.

            I do believe in forgiveness for those who repent but I do not believe Byrd did. I do not know of any legislation he championed to atone for his past. I am happy t look at t if you can provide it. Helms did have such a record. Even late in life Byrd was using the N word on National television.

            Sorry, racism disgust me. I can’t help it.

          • Ray in VT

            So now you have something against non-believers? Vermont isn’t lily white. The snow has melted, but if you’re referring to the state’s ethnic composition, there are a large number of people here who didn’t used to be considered “white” by the National Association for the Advancement of White People, which was, I do believe, very active and powerful in your neck of the woods.

            That you claim affirmative action is racist while soft-peddling on the record of Southern conservatives, mostly later Republicans, who fought tooth and nail against desegregation and civil rights, except for that North Carolina-born Democrat what’s his name, is quite telling, I think. It’s like claiming to not be prejudiced but pushing stats from racists on the topic of crime, because blacks are scary don’t cha know.

            Dodd should certainly not have said at any point, like how Lott shouldn’t have said that America would have been better with ole segregation forever Thurmond had been President. It’s a good thing that the Democratic Party finally got rid of people like that. It’s just too bad that the other major party saw some gain by taking such people in.

            Believe what you want. Byrd apologized for his past, and he gained the support of the NAACP for his voting record, which Helms most certainly did not. This article addresses his change http://thegrio.com/2010/06/28/the-evolution-of-robert-byrds-racial-politics/. When did Helms apologize for trying to block MLK day, his race baiting in campaigning or his terrible comments about gays and lesbians?

            “Racism disgust me”. Just not when it shows how scary and dangerous black people are or when a Republican or TEA bagger engages in it I guess.

        • JS

          “Keep in mind my point here, I never said racism was limited to one party.”

          Yet you only give examples from one party, imagine that

  • hennorama

    Here’s something that will no doubt cause some consternation, and perhaps a chorus of “I told you so”s:

    From the latimes.com website:

    “Healthcare options for undocumented immigrants

    Undocumented immigrants have limited access to health insurance, a fact the Affordable Care Act does little to change. But there are some options.”

    FTA (details of each “option” omitted due to space considerations, with one exception):

    Despite the barriers, there are options for immigrants in Lozano’s position to find health insurance and medical treatment. Here are some suggestions.

    Student health plans.

    Employer-based health insurance.

    Private health insurance.

    Medi-Cal coverage. The state provides a full range of low-cost healthcare options for poor Californians, and some of those Medi-Cal benefits are available regardless of a person’s immigration status. For instance, emergency care, pregnancy-related services and, when needed, state-funded long-term care can be obtained.

    In addition, a 2012 federal law provides temporary work authorization and relief from deportation to undocumented children and young adults who arrived in the U.S. before turning 16. It’s part of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals law, known as DACA. Undocumented immigrants who qualify — mostly people younger than 31 who attend school — are eligible.

    The Affordable Care Act bars undocumented immigrants from access to Medicaid, but California allows those with DACA status to sign up for Medi-Cal.

    Community health centers.

    State-based health programs.

    Healthy Way L.A. Unmatched.

    See:
    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-healthcare-watch-20140420,0,3023888.story?page=2

  • OnPointComments

    The remarks, which have been denounced and condemned in unequivocal terms, expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country. But a man should not be judged by those snippets that have run in an endless loop on television. While not justifying or excusing the comments, it would be a mistake to denounce the speaker as a crank or a demagogue. If we condemn the statement without understanding its roots, we will widen the chasm of misunderstanding that exists between the races. These resentments are rooted in legitimate concerns — dismissing them as misguided or racist only widens the racial divide and increases misunderstanding.

    Cliven Bundy? Donald Sterling? No. Candidate Obama speaking about the racist and anti-Semitic rants of his long-time pastor, Reverend Jeremiah Wright. One important difference between the remarks of Bundy, Sterling, and Wright is that no one sat and listened to Bundy and Sterling make their remarks on a weekly basis for twenty years.

    Let the double standard commence.

    • ExcellentNews

      Really? The corporate media gave plenty of coverage of Obama’s views on race and other issues. I think that our President speaks very well for himself, and comes across as a highly intelligent moderate with good ideas on how to reverse the our corporate-sponsored race to the bottom with banana republics and slave-labor dictatorships.

      Now, Bundy deserves his press coverage, because he is a perfect spokesman for the “Conservative Movement”. And no, I don’t mean his comments on race, to which most conservatives said “Amen”. I mean his views on (1) using public property for free for fat private gains, and (2) the hell with women and children – put them on the firing line. THAT is what YOU and your oligarchy pals stand for.

  • ExcellentNews

    Wow. Let’s see… A) 25,000,000 high-wage US jobs exported to slave-labor dictatorships, B) $17 trillion in federal debt, C) $10 trillion in consumer debt, D) $500 billion yearly trade deficit with Islamic kingdoms and again, slave-labor dictatorships, and F) inheritance tax cuts for the predatory bankers, smarmy CEOs and assorted cronies who led us there.

    I jumped from D to F because F is for “FAIL”. And our Republican leadership has nothing better to talk about than “a gun in every lunchbox”??? But then again, you know who pays for their lunchboxes…

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      “Republican leadership”

      A classic oxymoron. All I see is mush.

  • Antisthenes

    What a bunch of crappie callers this show has. Carl, the proto typical leftist, again and again is brought to the front of the call in list and given cart blanc to disseminate his biased view. Is Ashbrook a tottering old fart or what?

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