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Week In The News: Bad Water, School Shooting, Net Neutrality

Poisoned water in West Virginia. Net neutrality takes a hit. Another school shooting – New Mexico. Our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

Water buffaloes are made available to local residents in South Charleston, W.V. to fill coolers and other containers at the GeStamp Stamping Plant-South Charleston Sunday morning, Jan. 12, 2014. The ban on using water for drinking, washing and cleaning remains in effect following the chemical spill Thursday in the Elk River that has contaminated the public water supply in nine counties. (AP)

Water buffaloes are made available to local residents in South Charleston, W.V. to fill coolers and other containers at the GeStamp Stamping Plant-South Charleston Sunday morning, Jan. 12, 2014. The ban on using water for drinking, washing and cleaning remains in effect following the chemical spill Thursday in the Elk River that has contaminated the public water supply in nine counties. (AP)

Poisoned water in West Virginia this week.  A chemical spill and a crisis on the Elk River and downstream.  Too little water in California.  Fire and drought.  And a trillion-dollar budget deal in Congress, where there haven’t been real budget deals for a long time.  We’ve got Chris Christie squirming.  Blame for Benghazi. A ruling against net neutrality.  And the President on the NSA.  The Supreme Court’s looking at abortion clinic buffer zones.  A school shooting, a supermarket shooting, and scandal in the nuclear missile officer corps.  This hour On Point: Our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

– Tom Ashbrook

Guests

John Heilemann, national affairs editor at New York Magazine and MSNBC political analyst. Co-author with Mark Halperin of “Double Down: Game Change 2012” and “Game Change: Obama and the Clintons, McCain and Palin and the Race of a Lifetime.” (@jheil)

Nancy Cordes, Congressional correspondent for CBS News.  (@nancycordes)

Jack Beatty, On Point news analyst.

From Tom’s Reading List

CNN: ‘Pay to play’ on the Web?: Net neutrality explained — “How would you like to have to pay a fee to be able to stream YouTube videos at full speed? What if you liked downloading music from, say, Last.fm or Soundcloud, but those sites suddenly became infinitely slower than bigger sites like Amazon or iTunes? Those are the kind of major changes to the Internet some folks are envisioning after a federal court ruling this week on what’s come to be called ‘net neutrality.’”

Politico: House approves bipartisan spending bill — “The House approved and sent to the Senate a landmark $1.1 trillion spending bill that fills in the blanks of December’s budget agreement and sets a new template for appropriations for the remainder of President Barack Obama’s second term. Adopted 359-67, the giant measure literally touches every corner of government. And more than any single document to date, it defines the new budget reality that faces the president and his activist agenda.”

Reuters: Pregnant women warned off West Virginia water in cleared areas — “One week after the spill into the Elk River prompted authorities to order some 300,000 people not to drink or wash with their tap water, officials have cleared more than 200,000 of them to start drinking the water again after tests showed levels below the 1 part per million level safety standard set by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. But pregnant women should continue to steer clear of the water in an ‘abundance of caution’ until the chemical is completely undetectable, West Virginia American Water said.”

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  • Yar

    Isn’t it nice to get the all clear to drink the tap water, (unless pregnant, of course) when we know so little about the toxic effects of the chemical. I wonder how MCHM or its reaction products interacts with PVC, rubber and other components of a water system such as the filter in your refrigerator? Do officials even have an idea of what levels of concentration were reached in the worst affected homes? I think it is going to be a long time before this disaster is “under control.”
    Years, maybe!
    Welcome to the West Virginia MCHM exposure experiment. Your health data should be tracked for the next 30 years and only then we will know what 4-methylcyclohexylmethanol does to you, your children and beyond.
    Thank you for your participation in this important study.
    All in the name of science, oh, and what about the environmental impact to the river?
    What is the true cost of coal?

  • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

    FTA:
    Let’s all be very clear: The FBI did not conduct an “investigation” into the IRS scandal.

    Not unless there are new protocols for investigating potential unlawful activities, which discard the quaint notion of speaking to the victims.

    http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/2542177/?no_cache=1&no_edit=1&show_all=1

  • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

    FTA:
    And yet, you know what is also something everybody would find “relatable”? Politicians who sic the tax man on others for political gain. Everybody has to deal with the IRS and fears it. Last year, we learned from the Internal Revenue Service itself that it had targeted ideological opponents of the president for special scrutiny and investigation — because they were ideological opponents.

    http://nypost.com/2014/01/11/why-bridgegate-made-headlines-but-obamas-irs-scandal-didnt/

  • Government_Banking_Serf

    You just can’t make up this stuff any more.

    I thought someone said, “If you like your potatoes you can keep your potatoes.”

    AGRICULTURE DEPARTMENT: NO MORE WHITE POTATOES, NO MORE FRENCH FRIES

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/01/16/Agriculture-Department-No-More-Potatoes-No-More-French-Fries

    • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

      All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.
      -Benito Mussolini

    • TFRX

      You can when you start with Lil’ Breitbarts.

      Source this from someone I’d follow out of a burning building.

      • Government_Banking_Serf

        Shoot the messenger TFRX.

        • TFRX

          Lil Breitbarts!

          Hahahahaha!

          Please, more of that great Libertarian truth-telling politics which left-wingers are so ready to lap up–by quoting hacks from LilBreitbart!

        • Don_B1

          So just because “Breitbart&Co” has a distinguished history of fomenting lies it should be given absolute credibility for every new charge it makes?

      • Government_Banking_Serf
  • Government_Banking_Serf

    If you like your pre-calculus prep level math standards, you can keep them…..NOT

    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304020704579278060483138096

    Common Core Doesn’t Add Up to STEM Success

    The high-school math standards are too weak to give us more engineers or scientists.

    But I guess as long as we are all dumber together, we will have peace and prosperity…..

    • John Cedar

      It is not a realist goal to prepare most students for a college level math course. Common Core is a terrible thing and it is difficult to know which of its faults to point out, but the fact that it doesn’t meet its unrealistic purported goal, should be low on the list.

      • Government_Banking_Serf

        When plenty of other countries can educate their kids to pre-calc levels, which is not that hard, given they start early with a no nonsense attitude, accepting a one-size fits all set of standards from some unaccountable group, which aims lower, seems silly.

        If we are going to accept these centralized plans, lets at least aim above mediocrity.

        I hope its just the “core”, and that schools will still routinely offer capable and motivated students the opportunity to do more. Problems I see are:
        1. If standards start at K for example and are quite rigid, we will likely produce less “advanced” students in the first place, little robots.

        2. Teachers will be so concerned about teaching to new standards and performance on tests, that they won’t have time or energy or latitude to go beyond.

    • Ray in VT

      Isn’t that why it’s called a core? I think that when I was in high school one was required to take two years of math. Most, though, took more than that. I took 5.5 credits worth, and I think that one could get upwards of 7.

  • Government_Banking_Serf

    “America Is Plunging Into Kafka’s Nightmare”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-15/guest-post-america-plunging-kafkas-nightmare

    “When I examine recent U.S. legislation, the exposure of classified documents, and the openly admitted criminality of political leadership, I am consistently reminded of Franz Kafka’s The Trial.
    Kafka was a self-styled socialist back in the days when socialism was thought to be the next revolutionary movement for the downtrodden masses. It was, of course, controlled opposition created by global elitists attempting to exploit the natural rebellious tendencies of the general public within a false paradigm — using the masses to achieve greater power for a select few, while making the people think that they had won. It is ironic that Kafka would write The Trial, one of the greatest condemnations of totalitarian surveillance society, while at the same time supporting the socialist political vehicle that would eventually be used to implement unrelenting bureaucratic despotism……..”

  • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

    FTA:
    In less than 24 hours, the big three networks have devoted 17 times more coverage to a traffic scandal involving Chris Christie than they’ve allowed in the last six months to Barack Obama’s Internal Revenue Service controversy. Since the story broke on Wednesday that aides to the New Jersey governor punished a local mayor’s lack of endorsement with a massive traffic jam, ABC, CBS and NBC have responded with 34 minutes and 28 seconds of coverage. Since July 1, these same networks managed a scant two minutes and eight seconds for the IRS targeting of Tea Party groups.

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/scott-whitlock/2014/01/09/there-s-already-17-times-more-coverage-christie-scandal-last-six-mon#ixzz2qf1UehwU

    • Ray in VT

      Hmmm. Some two months after a story broke the news networks weren’t devoting much attention to it. Is that supposed to be either a shock or an indication of something?

      • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

        You mischaracterize the point of the post, thug politics is a danger to our republic and should be vigorously exposed by a press that is committed to the security of our republic. A press corp that does not report on the sins of all politicians equally is a propaganda engine and a threat to our nation.

        • Ray in VT

          I don’t think so. I think that the post uses a questionable time frame to compare two events. On the one hand one has a story that has just emerged, and on the other is a story that is over two months old. It’s like asking why today ESPN is covering last night’s Rockets game more than the 2013 World Series.

          As for your other point, as is the sort of partisan hacks in the right wing “media” that push only partisan positions, lame conspiracy theories and half truths if not straight up lies, and I disagree with your characterization of the press in general.

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            I would expect you to disagree with my opinion of the press. It is part of the cloth of your political beliefs. I contend that the unscrupulous have blindfolded you with that cloth. I am here to help you unravel it because when you do, and I am certain you will, we will be able to build a better government.

          • Ray in VT

            I think that my eyes are pretty clear on this, and most, issues. Excerpts from the usual list of right-wing sources, which are often riddled with sources that I think are questionable at best aren’t really going to attract my attention or interest.

        • HonestDebate1

          OP did a show about Christie and the tenor was he should be held accountable whether he knew about it or not. He’s the boss and blaming an underling is passing the buck.

          The next day we get a show about Obama’s NSA and the tenor was he can’t be expected to be in charge and is blameless.

          Go figure.

    • jimino

      How much coverage does your “study” indicate for how the scores of right-wing entities that unlawfully tried to pass themselves off as tax exempt never faced any legal consequences for their attempted fraud on us taxpayers? I don’t find any such coverage.

  • Government_Banking_Serf

    Obama just promised NSA won’t keep our phone records anymore! Yay!

    If we want our privacy, we can keep our privacy!

    Rigghhht. (Cosby-style)

  • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

    FTA:
    House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman Darrell E. Issa, California Republican, and regulatory affairs subcommittee Chairman Jim Jordan, Ohio Republican, said they have discovered that the head of the investigation is Barbara Kay Bosserman, a trial lawyer in the Justice Department who donated more than $6,000 to Mr. Obama’s 2008 and 2012 campaigns, as well as several hundred dollars to the national Democratic Party.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/8/feds-pick-obama-supporter-lead-irs-tea-party-probe/#ixzz2qf1y05Z3

  • Government_Banking_Serf

    Now this guy speaks our language!

    “Debt=Serfdom”

    “Let’s be clear about three things:

    1. Too Big to Fail financialization is the metastasizing cancer that has crippled democracy and capitalism.

    2. Financialization feeds on expanding debt and cannot survive without it.

    3. Debt is serfdom. I have covered this in depth for years……”

    he then expounds nicely.

    http://www.oftwominds.com/blogapr13/debt-serfdom4-13.html

    • Government_Banking_Serf

      Can you down voters explain what you disagree with in the points? As opposed to just finding me disagreeable?

  • Ray in VT

    Virginia State Senator and potential 2014 Congressional candidate Richard H. Black didn’t, and maybe still doesn’t, understand how one can get a valid conviction for a spousal rape:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/15/dick-black-rape_n_4602683.html

    • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

      Not worthy of elected office.

      • Ray in VT

        I find it interesting that the Weekly Standard put up a part of that speech. It’s likely a killer to his campaign against a likely female opponent. His comments against homosexuality seem to be pretty standard fare in much of the GOP, though.

        • HonestDebate1

          Why wouldn’t The Weekly Standard report the story?

          • Ray in VT

            Maybe they’re just trying to get the nuts out of the primaries. I wonder if this guy thinks that rape pregnancies are a gift from God.

          • HonestDebate1

            Your view of the GOP is a caricature.

          • Ray in VT

            I think that it’s pretty spot on. Perhaps your definition of caricature, like your definition of decline, differs from the ones of which I am aware.

          • John Cedar

            Or a miscaricatureization

          • J__o__h__n

            How can any view of today’s GOP not be a caricature?

          • HonestDebate1

            Fine, if you please but Ray is spewing some really vile and insensitive trash.

        • James

          Establishment right wing sites are all about getting Republicans elected. And they don’t get much more right wing establishment then the Weekly Standard.

      • John Cedar

        Why would you say that. What the guy said was true. In the situation he described, it would be next to impossible to get a valid conviction without eyewitnesses or hidden cameras.

        Having met three men who were falsely accused by their wives they were divorcing, of sexually abusing their children, it came to light that false accusations during divorce are very common. The credibility of a spouse accuser would be even less than that of the general rape accusing pool, in which 30% or so are false accusations.

        Now you have to question why this man would bother to publicly speak this truth. But you can see, as usual the, Huff Post does not tell us what context it was spoken in and it is just a hit piece.

    • hennorama

      Ray in VT — one might be inclined to give Virginia State Senator Richard (insert VP Cheney’s nickname here) Black something of a pass for statements made prior to Gov. Jindal’s exhortation that Republicans should “stop being the stupid party,” until reading that his campaign had recently emailed a response, stating that “Black was not taking a position for or against marital rape.”

      What? He might be “for … marital rape?”

      If he is chosen to run, one hopes voters are pay attention.

  • HonestDebate1

    President Obama is “chronically incapable” of military strategy and falls far short of his predecessor George W. Bush, according to one of Britain’s most senior military advisors.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/01/15/senior-uk-defense-advisor-obama-is-clueless-about-what-he-wants-to-do-in-the-world.html

    • John Cedar

      That opinion would require an assumption as to whose side Obama is strategizing for.

      • HonestDebate1

        Excellent point.

    • Human2013

      George Bush couldn’t lead a blind man to the bathroom. In the lead up to the Iraqi war – an area he should’ve had some paternal knowledge of – he didn’t know the difference between Sunni or Shiite or that they even existed. Wholly incompetent….

      • HonestDebate1

        “The administration has to have a better understanding of any adverse impact of any delay in provision of support to Iraq,” Ambassador Lukman Faily told The Washington Times in an interview Wednesday. “It cannot afford a whole town or province of Iraq falling to al Qaeda and becoming a safe haven. It’s against the U.S. strategic interest. It’s against the U.S. national security to do that.”

        Asked whether the White House could do more to facilitate a tighter relationship with Iraq, Mr. Faily said, “to a certain extent they can. But we are no longer in a period in which we had President Bush, who took ownership of that relationship.”

        http://pamelageller.com/atlas_shrugs/2014/01/iraqi-ambassador-slams-obama-praises-bush.html/#ixzz2qfhhamft

        • Ray in VT

          After hundreds of billions, and possibly eventually trillions, of dollars spent and thousands of American lives lost in the ill conceived Iraqi boondoggle, how many more dollars and lives should lost to continue to pay for Bush’s mistakes?

          • HonestDebate1

            The Iraq war was not a mistake. It was inevitable.

          • Ray in VT

            Only because Bush had been jonesing to invade since 1999. Nothing in the realm of geopolitics is inevitable. It may look that way to some in hindsight, but that is poor history and reasoning.

      • J__o__h__n

        Mitt Romney led a blind man into a closed door.

        • OnPointComments

          Joe Biden thought he had healing powers and told a man in a wheelchair to stand up and take a bow. President Obama was so impressed with Biden’s feat that he told the story in all 57 states.

          • Ray in VT

            That guy must have been one of the 47% of Americans who won’t do anything for themselves who Romney tried to warn us all about.

          • HonestDebate1

            Perfect example of conventional wisdom that could not be more false. Yet you still post it, go figure.

          • Ray in VT

            I’m just repeating what he said. I thought that you liked how he derided so much of the American public.

    • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

      Mission Accomplished.

  • James

    I would love to see an hour dedicated to Heritage’s economic freedom index. We are down to 12, and have been in decline since 2006.

    http://rt.com/business/america's-dwindling-economic-freedom-620/

    • Government_Banking_Serf

      Who needs so-called “economic freedom” when we have Ben and Janet to print our way to a pretty darn good impression of prosperity?

      You’re just living in the………1700′s!

      It’s the 2000′s man, take the pill and enjoy the illusions!

  • Government_Banking_Serf

    Obama to announce change in NSA holding of data.

    Vote up if you believe this is an honest victory for the 4th amendment.

    Vote down if you think its cover, and the NSA and powers that be don’t give a rip about our bill of rights.

  • Ed75

    Just a few notes on earlier discussions it’s too late to respond to. Is the Ninth Commandment about thought control (Thou shalt not covet)? It seems to be, but I think coveting has a bad external effect, so it’s prohibited. The only thought control the Catholic Church engages in is that one is not allowed to think what is not true.
    Was God wicked when he destroyed people, as in the flood? Yet one ‘knows a tree by its fruit’. I think God has to be seen first as the one who is the lord of life, he can ‘demand one’s soul’ at any time. And death has to be seen in the context of eternal life. Also, God wills the good of people, does not want their destruction, so he allowed it in the past when a people were beyond hope in sin, or to follow a plan of providence. (E.g. Jesus’ suffering was an evil, but allowed for the good it would bring.)
    Defrauding isn’t mentioned explicity in the Ten Commandments, a good case that it’s mentioned elsewhere with other commandments, is it additional to them? I still think it falls under the umbrella of the ten commandments, but perhaps needed to be stated explicitly.

    • lobstahbisque

      Thank GOD for the separation of church and state.

      • J__o__h__n

        No, thank Jefferson and Madison.

    • J__o__h__n

      That is ironic as religion is thinking what is not true. Of course god was wicked when he destroyed people in the flood (as a fictitious character). Wouldn’t defrauding come under bearing false witness? I’ll have to check the Ten Commandments monument when I’m in Oklahoma drawing inspiration from the Satan statue.

  • terry7

    REINING IN THE NSA: If the President’s solution to the phone call metadata storage problem is to transfer its custody from the NSA to the phone companies, are we being asked to believe that the agency which has wormed its way into top secret cyber facilities around the world is incapable of hacking into the phone company’s database? True- they shouldn’t do it, but has that stopped them in the past?

  • Ed75

    The Supreme Court is deciding a case involving recess appointments by President Obama. Apparently the administration is actually arguing that the president is the one who decides when the Senate is in session. This means that if the Senate passes a law the president doesn’t like, he can decide that they weren’t really in session. Or perhaps can disband them. Even the liberal justices are apparently very unhappy with this idea of presidential authority.

    • J__o__h__n

      No it doesn’t. It allows recess appointments when the session is a sham. Wasn’t there another case this week on one of your two favorite subjects?

      • Labropotes

        John, the recess appointment provision is appropriate for a time when it was impossible to consult congress for months at a time. If congress comes into session per its own rules, it demonstrates that it is also available to consult and advise.

        I’m not trying to be rhetorical. I just don’t think the provision would exist if the constitution were written today, and it can be made irrelevant by both a literal and an “original intent” reading.

        • J__o__h__n

          It is more interested in holding up all appointments than advising.

          • Labropotes

            I agree. It’s wrong but it is their right to do it. We should vote them out.

  • William

    Has Obama become the last Socialist standing?

    The French President announced he is pushing for tax cuts, reduction in public spending, reduction in regulations on the business community. He said “We will not be able to reduce unemployment unless there is job creation by companies”.

    • Renee Engine-Bangger

      Buy a clue.

      • William

        Just the facts…take off your blinders….

      • nj_v2

        I’ll take “Clueless Conservative Bots for $1,000, Alex. Can I buy a vowel?”

        • William

          Always look “Forward”, never behind you. Ignore your failure and just look “Forward”!!!!

          • Ray in VT

            We can always try to conserve the failures of the past.

    • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

      Fire departments is socialism.
      Public water supply is socialism.

      • William

        Big, bloated government that has failed to pull us out of a recession is socialism.

    • Kathy

      Socialist. “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”

    • Government_Banking_Serf

      Crony Capitalism, Socialism, Fascism, State Capitalism, Corporatism, whatever. It’s all so fun.

      But don’t worry, the Ends justify the Means.

  • Coastghost

    Applied technology giveth and applied technology taketh away: blessed be the name of applied technology.

  • RolloMartins

    It would be nice if one of the panelists would point out that the 9 counties in W.Virginia were all on the same water source due to previous coal pollution preventing anyone from using well water.

  • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

    The poison chemical that was spilled in West Virginia is flowing downstream – into the Ohio and then the Mississippi rivers. The damage done by a criminally negligent corporation will continue.

    Mountaintop removal is another huge cause of poisoned water.

  • Labropotes

    About a third of US electricity is generated by coal week in and week out, for decades. It’s generated more cleanly today than every before, in part thanks to this chemical that removes pollutants before burning the coal. Less than one tenth of a percent of Americans were affected by this spill, and so far, no evidence of serious harm outside of inconveniences. We need to grow up and face such problems without whining so much.

    • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

      Clean coal = oxymoron

      Burning coal = mercury pollution
      Burning coal = fly ash
      Burning coal = mountaintop removal
      Burning coal = climate change
      Burning coal = air pollution

      • Labropotes

        More expensive electricity means more impoverished people. We should regulate and tax to maximize human welfare. And we should seek that balance unencumbered by puritanical thinking.

        • Yar

          What if the minimum wage is indexed to the cost of energy?

          • Labropotes

            Prices for manufacturers would still go up. If you create costs through inefficient regulation enacted in a fit of emotion, those cost must be paid for by society. I don’t think making “others” pay is a perfect solution.

          • Yar

            Others are already paying for “cheap energy”. Paying the true cost of fossil fuel includes cleaning up the mess created by using it.

        • TFRX

          “Privatize the profits, socialize the costs” is their motto.

          Letting these big corps socialize the costs of doing their business means more poisoned people.

          This is but one of the plethora of examples.

        • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

          Land based wind power is less expensive than even natural gas fired power plants; let alone coal fired power plants.

          What is the true cost of burning fossil fuels?

    • hennorama

      Labropotes — key phrase: “so far, no evidence of serious harm.”

      So far.

      • Labropotes

        In the mean time, let’s live in fear.

        • hennorama

          Labropotes – it’s hardly “living in fear” to be concerned about ingesting and/or absorbing a chemical that is exempt from the 1976 Toxic Substances Control Act, and that according to its manufacturer (Eastman Chemical Co. in Tennessee), is “Harmful if swallowed, causes skin and eye irritation.”

          As reported by David Zucchino on latimes.com:

          “Little is known about the possible health effects of MCHM, a solvent used to wash impurities from coal. For days after the spill, state officials were at a loss to explain to residents just what was in the stuff and just how dangerous it might be. Authorities said it was not lethal, but could cause vomiting, nausea and skin, eye and throat irritation.”

          AND

          “Dr. Vikas Kapil, a senior CDC official, defended the standard as valid. But he added, “There are uncertainties, and there is very little information on this chemical.” He said the agency was reviewing a second MCHM study it had obtained.

          AND

          “As an established chemical at the time of the 1976 Toxic Substances Control Act, MCHM is exempt from its regulations, which applies to new chemicals. A document on the Eastman Chemical website says of MCHM: “Harmful if swallowed, causes skin and eye irritation.”

          See:
          http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-chemical-danger-20140117,0,7792964.story#ixzz2qfqPDEiy

  • TFRX

    Tom, that Mike Enzi says a “line you know” doesn’t make it any more true.

    Enzi’s fascination with “steal the money”, repeated three or four times in fifteen seconds, is telling.

    Watch for all the right wing experts to start spewing it now.

    • Labropotes

      If dept and money printing don’t matter, why do we tax? Why not borrow and monetize all our expenses?

      • TFRX

        Enzi is playing the predictable role in the right’s mischaracterization about debt and the need to make it a crisis whenever a Dem is in the White House.

        The press are suckers for not digging into numbers.

  • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

    Why do we have any nuclear missiles? Decommission them all and cut the military budget proportionally.

    • Human2013

      They’re suppose to serve as a deterrent to the rest of the world, but you see they didn’t deter the 9-11 terrorist. The behemoth, anti-humanity ballistic missles in the US arsenal are archaic and apparently we have to borrow from China just to maintain them.

      • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

        No sane leader would ever order nuclear missiles be fired.

        • Human2013

          Exactly! Why do we make weapons for the insane?

  • MrNutso

    Jack, IRS did not “investigate” conservative groups they did their job in scrutinize all “social welfare” groups looking for tax exempt status.

    • skelly74

      This is a funny statement. Thank you.

  • rich4321

    Regarding the school shooting, the gun lovers will accuse me of a liberal or calling me name about what I have to say, call me whatever you whatI don’t care, I am going to say it anyways.
    Why do we always hear deranged people pick up a gun to kill?
    Whether schools, shopping malls or theaters?

    The fundamental issue is the society has brain washed the deranged people by painting that guns are power. To make matter worse, the NRA proponents argue that it is their constitutional right to bare arms. That is why guns are so easily available to anyone legally or illegally.

    Are there any reasons why a mentally balanced, peaceful civilian to own gun? I think not.

    Just how many more innocent people have to die before anything changes?

    • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

      “Why do we always hear deranged people pick up a gun to kill? Whether schools, shopping malls or theaters?”

      There are two reasons, first being that criminal don’t obey laws, and the second being that we are poorly served by journalists.

    • William

      I agree and the brainwashing comes from Hollywood but yet, they never get any attention or regulations against very violent movies and video games they keep producing.

      • J__o__h__n

        Those Hollywood liberals Schwarzenegger, Stallone, Willis, and Eastwood are to blame!

        • William

          A dirty industry with the political clout to do anything they want with zero accountability.

    • OnPointComments

      The Constitution and the Supreme Court say that people have the right to own a gun. It’s a dangerous world out there and I have the right to protect myself.

      • Renee Engine-Bangger

        You’re right. It is a dangerous world…exactly because of all the freaking guns “out there.” There is a simple solution.

        • OnPointComments

          And what would that simple solution be, Renee? What law could be passed that you think criminals will obey?

      • rich4321

        Criminals are people too, they are just bad, very bad people. Drug lords are people too, very very bad people. So the law allow they to own guns and by your logic, they are entitled to own guns?
        No wonder our society is so F* up

        • OnPointComments

          Criminals are already prohibited from owning guns. How’s that working out?

          • rich4321

            You just don’t get it do you? The problem is gun. Criminal or not one can obtain a gun legally or illegally!

          • Steve__T

            No you don’t get it.

            ‘I do not know with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones’ – Albert Einstein.

            Man has not overcome his propensity for violence. So do we ban sticks and stones too?

  • TFRX

    Jack Beatty and “punish the IRS” (talking about the IRS scandals (sic)): Step away from the Beltway, Jack.

  • Human2013

    The right’s deregulation chants are all good…..then the water goes bad.

    • Government_Banking_Serf

      Throw someone in jail. Sue somebody. Crony capitalism (emphasis on Crony-protect politically connected) doesn’t work.

      • Labropotes

        Of course it does!

        - a Crony

  • Kathy

    One of the guests just said the IRS was receiving a cut because of malfeasance regarding investigations of “conservative” groups. That accusation was proven to be false. The issue was political groups posing as non-profits and the IRS investigated them on both sides of the aisle.

    • Government_Banking_Serf

      With a ratio of like 8:2 or something…..

      Isn’t the “investigator” an Obama donor?

      This is what you get when the Ends justify the Means.

      End- defeat people who don’t agree with your visions.
      Means-any necessary.

      I’m sure the “investigators” feel the same way.

      • WorriedfortheCountry

        Not only a major donor but from the civil rights division instead of the criminal division. Unheard of by professionals in the department of justice for these kind of cases.

        • Government_Banking_Serf

          What difference, at this point, does it make!?!

          Its been, debunked!

    • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

      What you term as an investigation I would refer to as a cover up. Let us have a special prosecutor and let them go where the evidence leads.

      • ghm52

        Let’s have the same level of outrage for the lack of jobs legislation, unemployment insurance extensions, food stamps cuts! C’MON PEOPLE!

        • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

          No.
          There is a clear difference between policy the issues you site and the thuggish use of the power of government to further personal political ends. It is wrong when Christie does, and it is wrong when Obama does it.

    • OnPointComments

      It’s amazing to me the number of liberals who say that the IRS using inappropriate criteria to single out conservative groups didn’t happen.

      The IRS admitted its guilt.
      The Treasury Inspector General’s report said that the IRS used inappropriate criteria.
      The President read the TIG’s report and said the practice was intolerable and inexcusable.

      • Kathy

        It’s been completely and totally debunked. I’m sorry if Faux isn’t reporting that.

        • OnPointComments

          Why don’t you provide us with a link to the government report that debunked the targeting?

          • ghm52

            I don’t care which groups were looked at, if any group does not meet the criteria for 501 c 3 status, they should not get tax savings! There are churches that politically proselytize constantly and receive massive exemptions because they are “not-for-profit”. I applaud the IRS for finding fraud, red or blue or god or food bank!

          • OnPointComments

            Are you saying that you don’t care which groups are looked at, or how they are selected, as long as fraud is found? Suppose the Treasury Inspector General had found that the IRS identified all groups formed by African Americans for further scrutiny? Would that have met with your approval as long as the IRS found fraud in some of the groups inappropriately selected?

          • ghm52

            Fraud is fraud. Period.

      • hennorama

        OPC – The phrase “singled out” is pejorative and not what the IG found. No “singling out” was found. The IG report found only that “Inappropriate Criteria Were Used to IDENTIFY Tax-Exempt Applications for Review.”

        The word “targeting” is also pejorative.

        The word “target” was used only to describe the ALLEGATIONS that had been made. The IG did not find any “targeting”. Again, the IG report found only that “Inappropriate Criteria Were Used to IDENTIFY Tax-Exempt Applications for Review.”

        In fact, Appendix VII of the report (“Comprehensive Timeline of Events”) indicates in the “Additional Details” section (with EMPHASIS added) that:

        “Determinations Unit personnel indicated that they used the description Tea Party AS A SHORTHAND way of REFERRING TO the group of CASES INVOLVING POLITICAL CAMPAIGN INTERVENTION RATHER THAN TO TARGET ANY particular GROUP. The specialist used Tea Party, Patriots, and 9/12 as part of the criteria for these searches.”

        Please note that applications from all sorts of organizations were identified using inappropriate criteria, not just “Tea Party” or “conservative” group applications.

        The TIGTA report indicated this was the “Breakdown of Potential Political Cases by Organization Name”

        Other: 202

        Tea Party: 72

        Patriots: 13

        9/12: 12

        Also, there’s not much dispute that the vast majority of the 298 applications identified using “inappropriate criteria” had “potential significant political campaign intervention” in IRS-speak. The TIGTA indicated that of the 298 applications “that had been identified as potential political cases as of May 31, 2012”, at least 205 (about 69 percent) had been appropriately selected as “potential political cases”, requiring additional information and review (page 10 of the report).

        Furthermore, the TIGTA projected that the IRS missed as many as 185 applications that SHOULD have been identified for further review, but were not. (page 9 of the report)

        The problem was by no means limited to “Tea Party” or “conservative” groups. The entire process of selecting applications for review was fouled up from the start.

        See:

        http://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditreports/2013reports/201310053fr.pdf

        • OnPointComments

          Do you believe that President Obama was incapable of understanding the TIG’s report?

          “I have now had the opportunity to review the Treasury Department watchdog’s report on its investigation of IRS personnel who improperly targeted conservative groups applying for tax-exempt status. And the report’s findings are intolerable and inexcusable. The federal government must conduct itself in a way that’s worthy of the public’s trust, and that’s especially true for the IRS. The IRS must apply the law in a fair and impartial way, and its employees must act with utmost integrity. This report shows that some of its employees failed that test. I’ve directed Secretary Lew to hold those responsible for these failures accountable, and to make sure that each of the Inspector General’s recommendations are implemented quickly, so that such conduct never happens again. But regardless of how this conduct was allowed to take place, the bottom line is, it was wrong.”

          • hennorama

            OPC – No, I do not.

          • OnPointComments

            President Obama said that IRS personnel improperly targeted conservative groups. Perhaps President Obama was using a synonym for “identify,” as I was when I used “single out.”

          • hennorama

            OPC — the quote you provided indicates only that President Obama stated that he “had the opportunity to review the Treasury Department watchdog’s report on its investigation of IRS personnel who improperly targeted conservative groups applying for tax-exempt status.”

            This was simply a description of the investigation. The President concluded that “the report’s findings are intolerable and inexcusable.”

            Again, the TIGTA report’s findings found neither “singling out” nor “targeting.”

          • OnPointComments

            According to my thesaurus, ‘target’ and ‘single out’ are synonyms for ‘identify.’

          • hennorama

            OPC – if you prefer to utilize synonyms, then “According to my thesaurus,” your moniker is TouchingPrickCracks.

          • HonestDebate1

            Your path around the point is long, twisted and nasty.

          • OnPointComments

            If these words are so different, and not synonyms, what message do you think President Obama was sending with his use of the word “targeted?” It was President Obama who said the IRS “targeted.”
            I think you are missing the point.

  • MrNutso

    Congress are cowards. As long as the potential exists that we could be attacked (which it always will), they will vote for anything they think will prevent an attack, rather than face the voters on this issue.

    • Government_Banking_Serf

      People who violate Constitutional Rule of Law should be impeached and jailed.

  • nj_v2
  • TFRX

    When we get to the buffer zone issue, remember what’s really at stake and why those zones are there:

    “We see a lot of protesters actually threatening,
    intimidating women, doctors, administrative staff
    as they’re trying to get into the building,” Ilyse Hogue, president of NARAL Pro-Choice America.

    (http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01/15/22314874-supreme-court-skeptical-of-buffer-zone-outside-clinics-providing-abortions?lite)

    • MrNutso

      I have yet to determine if these zones, or at least at the one clinic in question are on private or public property. If the 35′ line from the door is still on private property, I don’t see how this is an issue.

      • OnPointComments

        On the ABC Nightly News last night, they showed the zone extending onto the public sidewalk and public road.

  • MrNutso

    Good think the new spending plan cuts money for the state department.

  • nj_v2

    Deee-fense! Deee-fence! Deeee-fence!

    http://www.commondreams.org/further/2014/01/16-1

    Where $300 Million Of Our Money Went Wednesday – Hint: Not Education – Which Was Still Way Cheaper Than Tuesday

    • Kathy

      The worst part about this is that the military should also include veteran’s benefits. So it’s actually an even larger slice of the pie.

      • Government_Banking_Serf

        Veteran’s benefits are the worst part?

        • Kathy

          Not the benefits themselves, but that they are counted as a non-military expense.

        • Kathy

          I’ll also add that I think cutting anyone’s retirement after the fact, whether it’s the military retiree cuts that are currently up or the Detroit retirees getting robbed is an abominable and disgusting practice.

          • Government_Banking_Serf

            I would like to agree, but I fear the Detroit scenario is the tip of the iceberg of our mathematically-impossible promises. Printing money to pay it all off will not work. A lot of honest Americans will be screwed by the decades of irresponsibility and pandering of politicians and reckless monetary policy. Not many of us will be immune.

        • TFRX

          You really got that from that sentence?

    • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

      You do understand that the Discretionary spending is only a part of the Federal budget? In 2013 that was $1.264 Trillion out of a total of $3.803 Trillion in total spending. Total military spending was $672.9 Billion or 17.7% of Federal Spending.

      • nj_v2

        Got it; the current amount of spending is fine with you.

  • William

    Jack, don’t blame the dead guy. Senator Feinstein did not buy the NYTimes article or the youtube video story.

    http://thehill.com/blogs/global-affairs/middle-east-north-africa/195327-feinstein-rejects-nyt-on-benghazi

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    When do we get a Benghazi report that holds a person accountable? Instead they keep blaming a building.

    There is a huge open question about the source of the ‘youtube’ video meme when we now know Obama was told otherwise within 90 minutes of the start of hostilities. Why was Hillary unavailable for the “sunday shows” when they sent out Susan Rice to mislead the American people?

    • OnPointComments

      Rep. Brad Wenstrup, R-Ohio
      Gen. Carter Ham, who at the time was head of AFRICOM, the Defense Department combatant command with jurisdiction over Libya

      WENSTRUP: “As a military person, I am concerned that someone in the military would be advising that this was a demonstration. I would hope that our military leadership would be advising that this was a terrorist attack.”

      HAM: “Again, sir, I think, you know, there was some preliminary discussion about, you know, maybe there was a demonstration. But I think at the command, I personally and I think the command very quickly got to the point that this was not a demonstration, this was a terrorist attack.”

      WENSTRUP: “And you would have advised as such if asked. Would that be correct?”

      HAM: “Well, and with General Dempsey and Secretary Panetta, that is the nature of the conversation we had, yes, sir.”

    • Ray in VT

      Interesting that despite how much comes out that indicates uncertainty and some initial reports of a protest similar to those occurring in Cairo some want to spin that as some sort of an administration conspiracy to mislead the public.

      • Government_Banking_Serf

        Ray, 9 days. They DID mislead the public.

        The defense of these kinds of things is getting ridiculous!

        Why defend Christie, why defend this?

        How can people not be choking on their hypocrisy these days?

        Its getting surreal.

        • Ray in VT

          I think that I give plenty of slack to those caught up in ongoing events where actions and events are unclear or unknown.

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            “Give plenty of slack”
            =
            “Turn a blind eye to”

            I would love to see a commenter who would be an equal opportunity condemner of evil who ever commits it.

          • Ray in VT

            “Give plenty of slack” = “not willing to hang people over that which is not known”. Look no further. I might be your man. I’m certainly far better than some.

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            You are absolutely better than many. And I hope to see you improve.

          • Ray in VT

            Improvement is always a good goal, but I certainly feel that using many of your sources would be a move in the opposite direction.

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            Why is it that a Tea Party member such as myself is unafraid to listen to NPR but one as great as your self is afraid of my sources?

          • Ray in VT

            Perhaps because you are seeking some real news and journalism to balance your partisan sources. When I have viewed many of the sources that you have cited, I have merely just repeatedly found the same group of people citing the same right wing think tanks or pushing the same distorted or untrue statements, so what you label as fear of some sources I consider just having given up trying to find anything meaningful in the words of people repeating Cato, Heritage and Heartland “research”.

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            Glad to know, Thanks for the comment.

          • Ray in VT

            I obviously realize the tone and at least perceived partisanship of my comment, however I think that it is largely justified. I’m sure that you feel the same regarding your position.

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            Sir, I appreciate your steadfast defense of your beliefs. I respect all those that struggle to advance their ideas through perpetuation and honest debate. It is the only way we can advance as a society. But reactionary close-mindedness can only lead to stagnation and decay. (Maybe I shouldn’t share that with you. If you exercise your talent for debate would you not use it to defeat me and destroy that which I try to advance? Why would I seek to strengthen and empower my enemies? How stupid must the Tea Party be to trust me here?) Is the goal to find out what is right or only who is right?

          • Ray in VT

            I think that the goal is to find out both who and what is right, and I think that the truth is that no one person or side is always, or perhaps even often, right on issues. There is also the compounded difficulty that on many issues what is right depends in part upon one’s beliefs, as well as the fact that even when one is attempting to base one’s ideas or conclusions on facts or the best available evidence, then those facts may not be clear, and sometimes even when they appear clear, they sometimes end up being incorrect when put into practice.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            If the regime was open, transparent and honest about mistakes made then I would agree with you. They would have been much better off not pushing the youtube video nonsense. Yes, they would get dinged for incompetence but it would have died away much faster.

            I suspect it was driven by concern about losing a close election.

          • Ray in VT

            Yes, they would have been far better only having known what intelligence was correct. Do you have some sort of 20-20 hindsight machine that you can sell to people in such situations?

            Not having a hostile, partisan media element continually pushes out falsehoods to the the public would also have caused some of this to die away much faster.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Really? You blame it on the conservative media?

          • Ray in VT

            I blame the pushing of false and misleading “scandals” regarding Benghazi on conservative media.

          • Government_Banking_Serf

            Your skirting the main point. It WAS know, within an hour.

            The Rice thing is simply inexplainable by anything but a propaganda attempt, for whatever reason.

            Maybe we should look into the reasons, and then we debate whether such non-transparacy is defensible.

          • Ray in VT

            I would certainly argue that it was not, given that some reports from the ground indicated that there was. Once can say that it was known, but I would like to know how people in Washington really knew, and I do mean knew, the facts at that point.

      • WorriedfortheCountry

        Did you actually hear Susan Rice’s statements to the American people? There was no equivocating — a spontaneous protest caused by a youtube video. Yet NONE of the released FBI interviews of survivors indicated a ‘protest’.

        I don’t get why partisans defend the regime on this deceit.

        • Ray in VT

          Yup, unequivocal statements are a bad idea. I think that I’ve been clear on that. Now, I also find it interesting how many comments focus on what Susan Rice said on Fox that day, while ignoring the equivocating that she did on the other shows.

          I don’t know if I would expect some survivors to have known about any sort of protest if one had transpired. I don’t get why partisans attack this regime with the sort of deceit that they peddle, such as a “stand down” order, supposed actionable intelligence prior to the attack, or no intelligence initially of a protest or some sort of demonstration.

          • skelly74

            I heard a unequivocal statement: “what difference does it make”.

          • Ray in VT

            Yes, that is the whole of it. Bravo.

        • skelly74

          ‘What difference does it make”

        • hennorama

          WftC – if you are referring to Amb. Rice’s Sunday talk show remarks, please provide a quote of her saying that the Benghazi attacks were “a spontaneous protest caused by a youtube video,” rather than what Amb. Rice ACTUALLY SAID:

          ABC – “…this began as, it was a spontaneous — not a premeditated — response to what had transpired in Cairo.”

          CBS – “…what began spontaneously in Benghazi as a reaction to what had transpired some hours earlier in Cairo …”

          CNN – “ what we saw in that horrific incident where some mob was hijacked ultimately by a handful of extremists …”

          FOX – “…what happened initially was that it was a spontaneous reaction to what had just transpired in Cairo …”

          NBC – “…what happened in Benghazi was in fact initially a spontaneous reaction to what had just transpired hours before in Cairo, almost a copycat of– of the demonstrations against our facility in Cairo…”

          For your convenience, here are the 5 transcripts:

          http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/week-transcript-us-ambassador-united-nations-susan-rice/story?id=17240933#.UYuoBaLUnDl

          http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-3460_162-57513819/face-the-nation-transcripts-september-16-2012-libyan-pres-magariaf-amb-rice-and-sen-mccain/

          http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1209/16/sotu.01.html

          http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/fox-news-sunday-chris-wallace/2012/09/16/amb-susan-rice-rep-mike-rogers-discuss-violence-against-americans-middle-east#p//v/1843960658001

          • HonestDebate1

            How is it possible to be this misinformed this late in the game? How lame is it to make the case you are trying to make for the sake of ideology? How ridiculous can you get with your parsing? Your homework assignment to WftC is whacked.

            … please provide a quote of her saying that the Benghazi attacks were “a spontaneous protest caused by a youtube video,”

            That’s what she said, WftC did not put it in quotes but you did. Do you honestly believe the point is invalid if those words don’t appear in that order? And she did say it:

            JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This is not a case of protests directed at the United States writ large or at U.S. policy. This is in response to a video that is offensive.

            (END VIDEO CLIP)

            WALLACE: You don’t really believe that?

            RICE: Chris, absolutely I believe that. In fact, it is the case. We had the evolution of the Arab spring over the last many months. But what sparked the recent violence was the airing on the Internet of a very hateful very offensive video that has offended many people around the world.

            Where is the wiggle room? Or:

            “But let’s remember what has transpired over the last several days. This is a response to a hateful and offensive video that was widely disseminated throughout the Arab and Muslim world.”

            That is certainty. Why did you omit the transcript from “Meet The Press”?

            http://www.nbcnews.com/id/49051097/ns/meet_the_press-transcripts/t/september-benjamin-netanyahu-susan-rice-keith-ellison-peter-king-bob-woodward-jeffrey-goldberg-andrea-mitchell/#.UtqE9Dn0DUQ

            You should be ashamed of yourself.

          • HonestDebate1

            Yes, the NBC link that contains Susan Rice saying, “This is a response to a hateful and offensive video”.

    • Kathy

      When is the far right going to stop dancing on the corpses of some very good people who died over there.

    • OnPointComments

      “The previously classified testimony reveals that, minutes after the American compound in Benghazi came under assault, top defense officials were informed that it was a “terrorist attack” and not a spontaneous strike that started as a protest over a U.S.-made anti-Islam video as the Obama administration has said. General Carter Ham, who headed the Pentagon’s combat command (AFRICOM) with jurisdiction over Libya, testified that he broke the news about the unfolding attack to then Defense Secretary Leon Panetta and the chairman of the Joints Chiefs of Staff. Shortly afterwards the two senior officials left the Pentagon to meet with the president.”
      http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2014/01/outrage-over-republican-leadership-compels-release-of-benghazi-docs/

    • HonestDebate1

      Yes those are huge questions but no one seems to be asking them and that fact is astonishing. Think about it, the President should be beyond outraged.

      • jimino

        A monstrously more serious form of those “huge questions” has occured EVERY DAY FOR 12 YEARS in Afghanistan and Iraq with nary a notice by your ilk. Your sense of proportion is skewed in the most profoundly flawed and ignorant way imaginable.

        • HonestDebate1

          You didn’t know me 12 years ago and Bush was asked every question in to universe.

          No one has even asked where Obama was that night. No one knows and no one has asked. I find that amazing.

    • jimino

      I predict it will be about 11 years after some person gets held responsible for 9-11, the fraud-based Iraq invasion and incompetent occupation of that country, the faliure to capture bin Laden when he was literally in our sights. You can tell me when to start counting.

    • Human2013

      Really? Please put this issue into a deep Coma. So many courageous Americans have lost their lives and they are all equally important, equally relevant.
      There is no singular reason the embassy was attacked. People around the world deeply disturst, deeply abhore the United States and lets leave it there.

    • skelly74

      “What difference does it make”

  • William
  • TFRX

    Brookline clinic real-life experience caller at :42 nails it. “Loving counsel” is what these wingnut brigades say, yet screams, threats and intimidation is what these “protestors” provide. Until someone gets shot, and then nobody knows nuttin.

    Why does someone with his real-world experience have to call NPR? Why isn’t NPR calling him?

    • keltcrusader

      This is more like what really happens:

      “For every McCullen who wants to talk kindly and respectfully, there are more who harass and don’t respect the boundaries of personal space like the guy in the video who blocks the woman’s car door until escorts come to help her get out of her car. He then chases after the women.” porkchopexpress

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?…

  • JGC

    Mr. Ashbrook, could you please book the author Sherman to talk about his research and new book on Roger Ailes, “The Loudest Voice in the Room”, and how Ailes has brainwashed a quarter of the American public into robotically following his ultraconservative agenda?

    • Human2013

      I do concur.

      Emerson warned of conformity:

      “…THIS CONFORMITY MAKES THEM NOT FALSE IN A FEW PARTICULARS,
      AUTHORS OF A FEW LIES, BUT FALSE IN ALL PARTICULARS. THEIR EVERY TRUTH IS NOT
      QUITE TRUE. THEIR TWO IS NOT THE REAL TWO, THEIR FOUR NOT THE REAL FOUR: SO THAT
      EVERY WORD THEY SAY CHAGRINS US AND WE KNOW NOT WHERE TO BEGIN TO SET THEM
      RIGHT.”

    • Human2013

      Nice Summary of Fox News…

      “…THIS CONFORMITY MAKES THEM NOT FALSE IN A FEW PARTICULARS,
      AUTHORS OF A FEW LIES, BUT FALSE IN ALL PARTICULARS. THEIR EVERY TRUTH IS NOT
      QUITE TRUE. THEIR TWO IS NOT THE REAL TWO, THEIR FOUR NOT THE REAL FOUR: SO THAT
      EVERY WORD THEY SAY CHAGRINS US AND WE KNOW NOT WHERE TO BEGIN TO SET THEM
      RIGHT.”

      Emerson

      • Government_Banking_Serf

        “If you like your plan, you can keep your plan. Period.”

        “No, not knowingly, does the NSA collect info on millions of Americans”.

        So you prefer the more bald-faced lies.

        After all, (all together now):

        “What difference, at this point, does it make!?!”

    • JGC

      The NSA traced the source of these three downvotes to Ailes, O’Reilly and Hannity, all hiding out in Ailes’ underground panic room. (Secret meeting on Megyn Kelly’s new lipstick shade to be introduced during the spring sweeps.)

  • Kathy

    The right wing guest has convinced me. Let the buffer zones come down and instead have everyone get arrested and prosecuted to the maximum extent of the law when they get violent. Which for the fundamentalists is pretty much every time they show up.

    • William

      Would you have the protestors arrested in WI a few years ago too? They destroyed public property and tried their best to intimidate legislators.

      • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

        What about those at the Texas Legislature? How much jail time should they receive?

      • Government_Banking_Serf

        Will you guys cut it out! Why should we all be held to the same standards? Some people’s protests and views are just better than others.

        What do you think this is, a Rule of Law, Not Men society or something?

        This is 2014, stop trying to have us live by 20th century standards.

        Those in power know best. I mean come on, why else are they in power? What they say, goes.

        The Fed has propped up our economy on the backs of our children, isn’t that enough? What else do you expect, equality under the law?

        Be grateful for what they give us.

    • MrNutso

      2 people were already killed at this clinic in the 1990′s.

  • Yar

    We have buffer zones around the court!

  • MrNutso

    All we are saying is give war a chance.

  • nj_v2

    Barbarism 2014, U.S.A. style.

    http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01/16/22325194-ohio-killer-executed-with-untested-two-drug-cocktail?lite

    Ohio killer executed with untested two-drug cocktail

    [[…An Associated Press reporter who witnessed the execution wrote that McGuire, 53, appeared to gasp several times and made several loud snorting or snoring sounds during a "prolonged" execution. Nearly 25 minutes passed between the time the lethal drugs began flowing and McGuire was pronounced dead.

    His stomach rose and fell several times as he repeatedly opened and shut his mouth — his adult children sobbing from a few feet away as they watched, the AP reported.

    Another witness, Columbus Dispatch writer Alan Johnson,reported McGuire "gasped loudly for air for about 13 minutes prior to his death," his chest heaving and his fist clenched. "Deep, rattling sounds emanated from his chest." ]]

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      “McGuire was convicted of raping, sodomizing and slashing the throat of 22-year-old Stewart, who was eight months pregnant at the time of her murder in 1989.”

      So much for swift justice. Regarding the issue you raise perhaps they should bring back “Old Sparky”. And btw – how do they ‘test’ the two drug cocktail?

      • nj_v2

        So there you have it.

        The lofty goals of the regressive, TeaBagger, America-hating forum trolls…

        The U.S. should be only just as good as the worst among us.

    • OnPointComments

      from http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/local/ohio-executes-mcguire-killer-of-preble-county-woma/ncqgR/

      Stewart’s family’s statement [Joy Stewart was the victim] noted the lives McGuire took nearly 25 years ago.

      “The last time I saw her, she was beaming with happiness and couldn’t wait to meet her baby,” it said. “This has been a long time coming.”

      It addressed concerns that McGuire would suffer, saying, “he is being treated far more humanely than he treated her.”

  • TFRX

    “American citizens understandably confused (over the Iran sanctions working and more sanctions being proposed),” says Tom.

    Somewhere a neocon is unfurling the “Mission Accomplished” banner.

    • Human2013

      Their party is based on confusion, misinformation and a lack or transparency. Sadly, it works.

  • M S

    The U.S. government is under the thumb of the “Israel” lobby? Who is this lobby? What a joke of a government we have; it’s legitimacy is questionable at best.

  • ghm52

    The Right to Lifers have proven that they will KILL women and clinic staff and doctors, )one in church!), because they do not believe in abortion. Their actions are to be buffered because they have proven they cannot be trusted with our freedom of speech. If there is no buffer, what is to prevent a “gentle” (but unsolicited) intrusion into the personal space of a clinic patient from pulling out a knife or a gun if they are told to back off? The Republican War on Women continues despite the majority view, as if it doesn’t matter! Give them an inch, they will lie, cheat, steal, kill…thus taking a mile!

    • warryer

      how is there a war on women?

      • ghm52

        Google it, the term was used yesterday by Rep. Eleanor Holmes Norton yesterday, she added a II (2) to it.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          Ted Kennedy fired the first shot in the war on women. Google it.

          • ghm52

            Out of 1,230,000,000 choices, that’s what you got?

          • Ray in VT

            I would have thought that those who opposed women’s suffrage would have preceded that attempt, but maybe Ted was older than I thought.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            I’ll raise you one waitress sandwich.

            The phony GOP ‘war-on-women’ meme deserves mock and ridicule. The double standard is out of control.

            Who gave the keynote at the DNC where the ‘war on women’ was a major theme? A serial groper, accused rapist and workplace harasser of an intern. You really can’t make it up.

          • Ray in VT

            How’s that getting government out of your life and into my wife’s uterus thing going? Which party was it that had a guy running for their nomination at this time last year that criticized the Supreme Court decision that allowed people to obtain contraception?

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Who’s being denied access to contraception?

            Are you auditioning for George Stephanopolous’s job?

          • Ray in VT

            How did that opposition to the Violence Against Women Act (138 House Republicans voting against it) or attempting to redefine rape for the purpose of getting an abortion exemption stuff work out?

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Don’t ask me to defend every vote or view.
            I have little love for the GOP — they are mostly politicians after all. :)

            But I will continue to call out hypocrisy and the double standard.

            Most of the ads by Elizabeth Warren in 2012 were painting a false impression that Scott Brown was a General on the “war on women’. He happens to be pro-choice. It was the worst part of politics. But I guess it works with the low-information crowd.

          • Ray in VT

            I think that to call the two parties sort of equally hypocritical on this issue is not valid, considering what issues and votes on side pushes/takes.

            If one looks rather wholly at what is called the “war on women”, then one can easily be pro-choice and still support just about every other aspect. Low information? Not necessarily.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            It is all about proportion.

            Abortion is not going to be prohibited. The Dems pretend that eliminating abortion is at the top of agenda.

            Personally, I’m more of a libertarian on social issues and can’t stand candidates like Huckabee and Santorum.

            However, many Dems have a real weakness on late term abortions which most people find abhorrent. Most GOP candidates have no idea how to capitalize on this weakness.

            Romney is a perfect case study. He had no interest in pushing a pro-life policy agenda but he has to ‘check the box’ with the religious right voters. He ended up losing voters on both ends on an issue that he would have little impact. A skilled politician could thread the needle.

          • Ray in VT

            I wonder if the GOP party platform plank seeking a “human life amendment to the Constitution” what would overturn Roe v. Wade or the plethora of laws seeking to further and further limit abortion rights across a great number of states gives people that impression.

            I don’t know how weak the Democratic party is on the topic of late term abortions. There are some pretty tight limits on such procedures, and the only pressure seems to be further and further restrictions on something that is relatively pretty rare.

          • ghm52

            And no one else’s business~

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Most people disagree with you. Once the fetus is medically viable then that person also should have a voice. That is the hard core Dem blind spot.

          • ghm52

            A fetus with no brain should have a voice? Are you willing to keep such a fetus alive once delivered? To be there? To pay for it? To feel the grief of the family?
            Buck stops there, right?

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            A medically viable fetus has a brain. Many mothers play music to their fetus while in utero . There is a strong demand for adoptions in the US.

          • ghm52

            adopting brain-dead fetuses? Can you answer the original questions?

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Brain dead? I don’t understand your question. We were discussing late term abortions and the rights of the fetus.

          • ghm52

            Of course you don’t.

          • warryer

            Children of 3 don’t have a voice in government either. And parents choose to be there and pay for it. What is your point?

            Should mothers be allowed to kill their 3 year olds because of the inconvenience to *their* lives?

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            I don’t agree with those planks and they aren’t going to happen. That is the proportion argument I was making. And when nonsense like ‘vaginal probes’ get proposed they get appropriately squashed. My sense it is a small minority in the party pushing nonsense.

            I will confess that Bush’s stem cell research restrictions was one of my top three negative actions by Bush. It ended up working out because the research happened with state and private money and Bush’s restrictions forced some good research that might not have happened.

          • J__o__h__n

            He cited Scalia as his ideal Justice. I don’t know how people got the idea that he wasn’t pro-choice.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Really? Is that all you got.

            My recollection is he listed 4 justices in answering the question including Kennedy and Sotomayor.

          • Ray in VT

            One could always go with, perhaps among other things on this issue, coauthoring a bill that would require women seeking an abortion to wait for 24 hours and to have to view images of the fetus. I think that such moves are merely attempts to push women towards not having an abortion.

          • ghm52

            over 1 Billion Google hits for the “phony” War on Women…

          • OnPointComments

            You need to be more specific in your search. If you specify ‘democratic party war on women,’ it cuts the number of results to 106,000,000.

          • ghm52

            SRSLY? It’s The Republican War on Women…

          • warryer

            What exactly is the war on women?

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            So a billion people agree it is a phony war?

        • OnPointComments

          Rumor has it that Eleanor Holmes Norton suggested that women could escape the ‘war on women’ by relocating to Guam, but Representative Hank Johnson warned her that the island could tip over if too many people went there.

    • TFRX

      Lost in much of the press:

      The Massachusetts law does not prevent free speech. It does keep some protestors from continually making arguments on their own terms to a private individual who has already demonstrated herself an unwilling audience.

      How many times do these patients have to tell someone “I’m not interested”?

    • hdesignr

      “War on drugs.”
      “War on terrorism”
      “War on women”
      .
      Did you fall for the first two as well?

      As someone else questioned, what exactly is the ‘war on women’? And please don’t respond towing a party line.

  • OnPointComments

    BAY: THE ANTI-ISLAM VIDEO DIDN’T CAUSE BENGHAZI ATTACK
    http://www.statesmanjournal.com/article/20140116/OPINION/301160028/Bay-anti-Islam-video-didn-t-cause-Benghazi-attack

    Excerpt:
    Scanning the transcripts of the 9/11/2012 Benghazi terror attack testimony released this week by congressional committee investigators makes this point quite clear: The video definitely didn’t do it.

    I am referring to the bizarre blame-tale spun by the Obama administration and repeated in the days following the terror attack.

    For those with dim memories, here’s the plot sketch: A crude anti-Islam Internet video produced by California crank Nakoula Basseley Nakoula incited peaceful Libyan demonstrators. Provoked by an egregious but First Amendment-protected sacrilege virally defiling the World Wide Web, the inflamed citizens of Benghazi spontaneously grabbed weapons and impulsively launched coordinated attacks on a conveniently accessible American diplomatic outpost.

    From the get-go, many of us didn’t buy this crock.

    Yet Obama administration officials continued to peddle the “video did it” canard for almost two weeks after the assault. Why peddle a blatant falsehood? Because “the video did it” narrative advanced a propaganda campaign supporting central Obama re-election political themes. Obama claimed his presidency would dramatically change Arab Muslim perceptions of America…he implied al-Qaida was fading fast. The Benghazi disaster countered these touts. Obama had to leave the American public with the definite impression that the Benghazi assault was spontaneous.

    • jimino

      So the nefarious plot was foiled by crack right-wingers well BEFORE the election and, despite the “obvious” (to those who REALLY know the truth, like you) incompetence and deceit of Obama administration, repeated incessantly on radio and TV shows, Obama won the Presidency.

      Do you really think the election was decided or in any way affected because so many people watched some Sunday morning BS talk show and what they think they heard on it? Really?

    • Salvor Hardin

      I have provided ample evidence that the video was the motivation for the attack and the timing of the attack.

      But your only concern has nothing to do with the attack or the report. Your only concern is for what the Obama administration said after the attack. Why should anyone continue to listen to your obsessions with what the administration said afterward. It apparently has totally shattered your world as you can hardly talk about anything else. You don’t really care about Benghazi as anything other than a political tool you can use in your vendetta against the Obama administration.

      • WorriedfortheCountry

        Right. It had nothing to do with the anniversary of 9/11 and revenge for Bin Laden’s death. Just a coincidence.

        • northeaster17

          If it did what is your point.

        • Salvor Hardin

          I agree with Northeaster. That is always part of the motivation as well. But there are many 9/11 anniversaries but only one with the video that they used as the cover for this attack:

          From the Associated Press story done a month after the attack:

          http://bigstory.ap.org/article/libyan-witnesses-recount-organized-benghazi-attack

          There was no sign of a spontaneous protest against an American-made movie denigrating Islam’s Prophet Muhammad. But a lawyer passing by the scene said he saw the militants gathering around 20 youths from nearby to chant against the film. Within an hour or so, the assault began, guns blazing as the militants blasted into the compound.

          One of the consulate’s private Libyan guards said masked militants grabbed him and beat him, one of them calling him “an infidel protecting infidels who insulted the prophet.”

          The witness accounts gathered by The Associated Press give a from-the-ground perspective for the sharply partisan debate in the U.S. over the attack that left U.S. ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans dead. They corroborate the conclusion largely reached by American officials that it was a planned militant assault. But they also suggest the militants may have used the film controversy as a cover for the attack.

          You have not given any evidence that refutes the AP’s reporting or the SSCI report.

      • OnPointComments

        I am going to rely on the recollection of General Carter Ham, who at the time was head of AFRICOM, the Defense Department combatant command with jurisdiction over Libya, instead of your fabricated evidence.

        • Salvor Hardin

          Yes, AP and Times reporters are fabricating evidence. Of course reporters shouldn’t be trusted and only politicians.

          From the January 15 SSCI report on Benghazi that you have said supports your statements:

          Individuals affiliated with terrorist groups, including AQIM, Ansar alSharia,134 AQAP, and the Mohammad Jamal Network, participated in the September 11, 2012, attacks. Intelligence suggests that the attack was not a highly coordinated plot, but was opportunistic; however, well-armed attackers easily overwhelmed the Libyan security guards and the five U.S. Diplomatic Security agents present at the Temporary Mission Facility. It remains unclear if any group or person exercised overall command and control of the attacks or whether extremist group leaders directed their members to participate. Some intelligence suggests the attacks were likely put together in short order, following that day’s violent protests in Cairo against an inflammatory video, suggesting that these and other terrorist groups could conduct similar attacks with little advance warning.

          This is from the actual report that you have just praised and said debunks any association with the video and the attack.

          You again continue to ignore evidence that doesn’t fit into your little political vendetta.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Yup, that right wing partisan, Senator Diane Fienstein (D-CA) has weighed in.

            “Feinstein rejects NYT on Benghazi”

            ““I believe that groups loosely associated with al Qaeda were” involved in the attack, she told The Hill last week. “That’s my understanding.”

            She also disputed the notion that the Sept. 11, 2012, assault evolved from a protest against the video, which was widely disseminated by Islamic clerics shortly before the attack.

            “It doesn’t jibe with me,” she said.”

            http://thehill.com/blogs/global-affairs/middle-east-north-africa/195327-feinstein-rejects-nyt-on-benghazi

          • Ray in VT

            and Feinstein’s rep said about that title that “to say she ‘rejected’ the conclusion of The New York Times is an overstatement” because ““When Senator Feinstein said ‘loosely affiliated’ she clearly was
            referring to groups not directly connected to (or taking orders from)
            core AQ in Pakistan — which was essentially the conclusion of The New
            York Times as well,”

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Did she backtrack from her comments about the video?

          • Salvor Hardin

            Why are you so concerned about Diane Feinstein’s position in the first place? Do you think the Senate Committee’s report was also lying? Do you think the AP reporters and Times reporters were also lying?

            Yours and others with the same mindset here have claimed that the video had absolutely nothing to do with the attack in any way. And you have continued to rely on stuff people make up in their head in an attempt to support your position. All actual reporting, intelligence and otherwise says that the video had a good deal to do with the attack. No one is claiming it has to do with a peaceful protest other than Rice the next day and which they quickly backtracked on.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Susan Rice went on the Sunday shows 5 days after the attack. (9/11/2012 was a Tuesday). Jay Carney also pushed the spontaneous protest meme.

          • Ray in VT

            Days later the President of Libya seemed to think that the video played a role.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Like this interview on 9/26.

            “Libyan president: Benghazi attack was a ‘preplanned act of terrorism’”

            http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/libya-president-benghazi-attack-terrorism-133154516.html

          • Ray in VT

            I was thinking of this statement from this 9/16 article:

            “The attackers used the protesters outside the consulate as a cover, he says.”

            http://www.npr.org/2012/09/16/161228170/consulate-attack-preplanned-libya-s-president-says

            That would be in line with Ambassador Rice’s comments, time wise. Was the Libyan President also :sent out to lie” by the Obama administration.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Since none of the released FBI interview of survivors indicate any observation of a protest I wonder where Susan Rice got here theory of a spontaneous protest? Don’t you think we deserve an answer? Let’s put her under oath.

          • Ray in VT

            Gee, I bet that talking points that came out of the CIA’s anti terror people and initial reports in the media had nothing to do with such statements.

          • Salvor Hardin

            I have zero interest in what Susan Rice said since she wasn’t there either. Why would you put her under oath – she has nothing to offer since I’m sure she would agree with the Senate report as well. That is for political hacks to argue over. I am only interested in what happened in Benghazi and attempting to counter the misrepresentations that extremists are using to exploit what should be a serious issue.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            ‘Don’t care what Susan Rice had to say?’

            She was the appointed by the regime to communicate to the American people. Since she mislead the American people shouldn’t we find out who directed her to mislead and why? Outrage over misleading the people by the regime is only for hacks? Wow.

            Talk about kneeling at the altar of the Ministry of Truth.

          • Salvor Hardin

            I think there has been a lot of detail about negotiations between State and the CIA about how to come up with talking points about the attack. She was simply echoing those talking points. Shortly afterward they said that some of those talking points were wrong. They have corrected their error or lie if you would like. What else can they do?

            Nothing will come of this but I’m sure the Benghazi Truthers will be on the job.

          • HonestDebate1

            That’s a cool trick where you put a quote that is not his quote in quotes because you’re quoting some NPR beat writer. Look at what he actually said from your link. Note where there are no quotes.

            I ask if this attack was over an anti-Muslim film that sparked violent protests across the Muslim world. He shakes his head.

            “The idea that this criminal and cowardly act was a spontaneous protest that just spun out of control is completely unfounded and preposterous,” he says. “We firmly believe that this was a precalculated, preplanned attack that was carried out specifically to attack the U.S. Consulate.”

            The attackers used the protesters outside the consulate as a cover, he says.

            “The intention was there from the beginning, for it to take this ugly barbaric, criminal form,” he says.

          • Ray in VT

            I quoted the article, you know, where I wrote “I was thinking of this statement from this 9/16 article”. Perhaps you should try reading something more closely before making yourself look the fool, but that certainly hasn’t stopped you in the past.

            So are you claiming that he did not make that statement because it was not directly quoted?

          • HonestDebate1

            I know, it was a good trick, as I said.

            I am saying he was quoted as saying the notion of the spontaneous protest was completely unfounded and preposterous.

          • Ray in VT

            It is no trick, unless reading is a trick. So, are you claiming that he did not say that there was an initial protest?

          • HonestDebate1

            If he did it was not quoted. We also know there was no protest according to the State Department.

            http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/10/09/state_department_no_video_protest_at_the_benghazi_consulate

            I have no idea what the NPR beat writer was referring to. Susan Rice’s claim was not at all in line with the Libyan President. She said with certainty it was the video and he said, “”We firmly believe that this was a precalculated, preplanned attack that was carried out specifically to attack the U.S. Consulate.” That does not jive in the least yet you said it does by omitting the actual quote.

          • Salvor Hardin

            While I realize that “it was the video” has become a simple minded way for you to refer to the the whole incident it actually conveys no meaning since it is much more complicated than that.

            The video was certainly the motivation for and the timing of the attack. But it was also an attack by heavily armed militia groups. So in the context you keep framing it everyone seems to be somewhat correct and everyone seems to be somewhat incorrect as well since there is no nuance in just picking out statements out of the air.

            Saying it is a “preplanned, precalculated attack” is correct in that the planning occurred sometime before the attack but it was also motivated by the video.

          • Salvor Hardin

            So as I said in my original post, you really only care what was said about Benghazi after the attack, not Benghazi itself. Some in the administration said that and they backtracked shortly afterward and said it was not a peaceful protest turned into an attack.

            So why are we continuing to talk about what politicians said after the attack? They haven’t said such a thing for months yet you are continuing to discuss it. The debate has always been what was said about Benghazi shortly after the attack, the debate has never really been about Benghazi itself. It was always just a political tool that Republicans hoped to exploit to their advantage.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            So Democrats misleading the American people is all about the “GOP exploiting their advantage”?

            How about the American people and media holding their elected representatives accountable for their actions and words? btw – I am not affiliated with the GOP and am skeptical of all politicians.

            For me, there is no statute of limitations until those responsible are held accountable. They should not be allowed to ‘run out the clock’ because that will just encourage others to use the same tactic.

          • Salvor Hardin

            So you want to hold those responsible accountable? But not actually accountable for actions but for what they said a couple of weeks after the attack? Again you are only arguing about what was said afterwards. Nothing will or should ever happen about that. They themselves have already said that the statements are incorrect. What more can be done – put them in a torture chamber? Invent a time machine to retroactively undo what they said. Throw them in jail because you don’t like what they said a year and a half ago?

            What you want is a witchhunt to be conducted about what was said after Benghazi – not Benghazi. The American people have already spoken. They have heard what was said and rejected this idea. It is going nowhere and it never should go anywhere.

            If you want to talk about the poor security at Benghazi which would actually be an action, then the Senate report discusses that in detail.

            If you actually want to be constructive for a change you could look at this article about improvements that have been made from lessons learned at Benghazi:

            http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/01/15/five-changes-at-state-since-benghazi/4494921/

            I’m sure more needs to be done but I’m sure this will help prevent or at least be able to handle similar threats in the future. Although my opinion has always been that we should not have been in Benghazi in the first place which is the primary mistake that was made.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            There are three parts to the Benghazi story – before, during and after. All three deserve scrutiny and accountability. Just because I ask questions about one doesn’t mean I don’t believe the other parts need scrutiny too. I might even agree with you that they are more important.

            However, I’m not eager to dismiss misleading by the regime especially in the midst of an election. You ask for the remedy? How about an apology to the people. How about firing those responsible like Christie did within 24 hours on his bridge issue.

            When have the American people spoken on Benghazi? Many people aren’t even aware of the issues due to the lack of transparency by the regime and poor performance by some of the media. Sorry, just because you run out the clock until after the election it doesn’t mean the issue goes away — see Watergate.

          • Salvor Hardin

            The American people only real voice that they have is through elections. Everything that you have stated about statements made after Benghazi by Obama administration officials were known to the American people at the time. They elected Obama and said that was not important.

            As for the actual details of the attack at Benghazi those are becoming clearer with the current investigations. And it is certainly valid to continue to investigate. People are certainly free to evaluate the information from the Senate investigation, but I suspect that the only people that will make any decisions based on this are so hopelessly filled with hate for Obama and the administration that it doesn’t really matter what anyone says.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Nixon was reelected after Watergate.

            You thesis doesn’t hold water.

          • Salvor Hardin

            Now you are being purposely misleading. Almost nothing was known about the extent of Watergate before the 1972 election. Certainly nothing was known at all about Nixon’s involvement since his primary involvement was the coverup afterward.

            And the Republican’s certainly suffered from Watergate incident in the 1976 election and that is what got a weak candidate like Jimmy Carter elected.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Exactly my point. Benghazi is not over if the media does it job.

            I’m not saying it will lead impeachment but hopefully those responsible will still be held accountable.

          • Salvor Hardin

            Accountable for what post Benghazi? Even if they are lying in public that is not a crime. If it was then every member of Congress would be in prison right now. They corrected their error or lie. Nothing new has been revealed in a year and a half of the post Benghazi “crimes” that you say that are there.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Hillary and Obama told the families of the dead at the memorial service in the hangar (9/14) that the video was the cause and they will bring the maker of the video to justice.

            http://hotair.com/archives/2013/05/09/mother-of-benghazi-victim-hillary-and-susan-rice-told-me-nose-to-nose-that-the-mohammed-video-was-to-blame/comment-page-1/

          • Ray in VT

            You mean “it doesn’t jibe with me”? I would like to know if she said more than that and what prompted that comment. I looked at about a dozen sites, and they only use that short phrase.

          • OnPointComments

            Excerpt from the testimony of General Ham before the Armed Services Committee, answering questions from Rep. Brad Wenstrup:

            General Ham. Sir, initially it was somewhat uncertain to me. But as the events unfolded, when we saw a rocket-propelled grenade attack, what appeared to be pretty well aimed small arms fire — again, this is all coming second and third hand through unclassified, you know, commercial cell phones for the most part initially. To me, it started to become clear pretty quickly that this was certainly a terrorist attack and not just not something sporadic.

            Dr. Wenstrup. Thank you. But going back to the timeline that Chairman McKeon was asking you about, I wouldn’t expect that our leadership would be informed 9 or 18 days later that this was a terrorist attack as opposed to a demonstration. I wouldn’t expect that the time frame would take 9 or 18 days. Would you expect it to be that long, General?

            General Ham. Yes, sir. But I am not privy to those conversations. Mine were with the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and with the Secretary. And I think we were pretty clear on, you know, pretty shortly thereafter kind of the nature of the attack.

            Dr. Wenstrup. Because as a military person I am concerned that someone in the military would be advising that this was a demonstration. I would hope that our military leadership would be advising this was a terrorist attack.

            General Ham. Again, sir, I think, you know, there was some preliminary discussion about, you know, maybe there was a demonstration. But I think at the command, I personally and I think the command very quickly got to the point this was not a demonstration, this was a terrorist attack.

            Dr. Wenstrup. And you would have advised as such if asked. Would that be correct?

            General Ham. Well, and with General Dempsey and Secretary Panetta, that is the nature of the conversation we had, yes, sir.

          • Salvor Hardin

            General Ham said it was not related to a peaceful demonstration turned into an attack. That is absolutely correct. It was an attack planned earlier that day by militant Jihadists motivated by the video. So General Ham is correct. The SSCI report is also correct.

            You are again conflating two separate things. Again you are only talking about what Ambassador Rice said the next day, not what actually happened in Benghazi.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            “It was an attack planned earlier that day by militant Jihadists motivated by the video.”

            Source? We now know the leader of the attack was a released Gitmo detainee.

            I don’t believe a coordinated attack of this nature could have been planned in one day. Also, there is evidence that there was some inside coordination of hired staff. Did that also come together within 24 hours?

          • Salvor Hardin

            So did you actually read the summary I posted? There is no intelligence received that suggests that when it was planned. So all that is known is that it was done at least earlier that day from the evidence that they have.

            Again you bring up inconsequential side issues again. Why does it matter that their may have been staff that was colluding with the militants in a city full of militants. An attack like that required little in the way of coordination – they completely overwhelmed the defenders almost immediately including some of the Libyans as well. They staked out the consulate earlier in the day which is known from the surveillance videos.

            Why does it matter that the leader was a Gitmo detainee? Many of those released from Gitmo went back into the Jihad business. And they went from country to country wherever the need was to continue the Jihad. But they needed dozens of others and the video was the motivation for the attack that day.

            None of this is a known quantity but this is the best analysis from intelligence and research done in Libya. Again you keep attempting to refute facts with nothing of substance.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            All you offer is conjecture based on what?

            You stated as a fact that the attack was planned earlier in the day and yet you offer no evidence. You just made it up out of whole cloth. You have no idea how long the attack was in the planning. Just admit it.

          • Salvor Hardin

            I personally don’t care when it was planned, only what happened. So you feel that the Senate Intelligence Committee report was wrong then?

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            I’m having difficulty following you.

            I never said the report was ‘wrong’. I was just disputing your assertion of fact.

            They concluded that the attack could have been prevented. Yet they blamed a ‘building’ — the State Department. Great — that’s a start. Now how about assigning blame to people and holding them accountable. How about taking corrective action so it doesn’t happen again.

          • Salvor Hardin

            I just posted this on another reply but there was a USA Today report on some actions taken from the lessons learned at Benghazi:

            http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/01/15/five-changes-at-state-since-benghazi/4494921/

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            It is good to see corrective actions.

            Who was fired?

          • hennorama

            OPC – FYI, zeroes are displaying as eights in your cut and paste.

            Is there a reason that you didn’t include Rep. Wenstrup’s initial, leading question to General Ham?:

            ‘[Representative] Dr. Wenstrup: Thank you, Madam Chair. General, again, thank you for your service and being willing to step up and serve your country for so many years. I don’t want to reiterate too many of the things that were asked before, but as someone who has served in theater, I think it is pretty evident from time to time to tell what type of security breach is taking place or how we can actually describe the events that were taking place

            “I mean certainly you wouldn’t call what happened on September 11th in Benghazi a sniper attack or just a few people acting on their own. Would you say that this was a coordinated attack, or at least appeared

            to be a coordinated attack on our people?”

            You also left out this part of General Ham’s testimony:

            “Mr. Wittman: Do you feel that your concerns were actioned upon in the proper way, maybe in a sense to where it could have prevented the incident there on September 11th?

            “General Ham: I don’t know that I would go so far as to say that it would have prevented the attacks that occurred on September 11th, sir.”

            See:
            http://armedservices.house.gov/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id=AAEBCAA5-4C8F-4820-BACD-2DB9B53C3424 (pgs. 48 & 56)

          • OnPointComments

            I have no idea what “zeroes are displaying as eights in your cut and paste” means. It looks like this on my screen:

          • hennorama

            OPC — it’s a minor point, but the original transcript of Dr. Wenstrup’s question reads “I wouldn’t expect … 9 or 10 days later … ”

            IOW, the original “10″ is displaying as “18″ in your posts.

            Just one of those instances where proofreading helps. No biggie.

  • pete18
    • Ray in VT

      You might want to check that cut and paste.

      • pete18

        Thanks for the heads-up.

        • Ray in VT

          Yeah, I’ve had that sort of stuff accidentally end up in stuff that I’ve been trying to copy too.

    • Government_Banking_Serf

      Don’t worry. The lobbyists and staffers who will really write the law after the fact, and the Executive who will execute the good parts and dump the bad with discretions, all have pure hearts.

  • marygrav

    Why do you post with no sound?

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      You seem to have daily problems. Have you tried the itunes podcast?

    • JGC

      marygrav, we have an internet radio alarm clock with built-in wifi from Aluratek. I think we got it with loyalty points but it retails for about $100, and picks up all stations off the internet with no subscription fees to pay. Just an idea to explore… aluratek.com (there are other makers but don’t have any first-hand experience with them.)

    • TFRX

      Do you mean live streaming or downloadable?

      I prefer CPBN.org over WBUR for listening to the live show, but maybe that’s my Linux laptop.

  • Cacimo

    Listening to Heilemann completely explains MSNBC’s low low ratings.

  • hennorama

    From the “What Took Them So Long?” file:

    “Freedom Industries, Inc., the company connected to a chemical spill that tainted water supplies in West Virginia, on Friday filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.”

    See:
    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304419104579326840913801408?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702304419104579326840913801408.html

    • JGC

      Rupert puts almost all his Wall Street Journal articles behind a paywall (something about having to retire the debt on the recent leather sofa upgrade on “Fox & Friends”, as per Steve Doocy’s contract) but if I put the reporter’s name and a few words from the title of the article (peg brickley freedom industries files) into the search, I can usually get past the pay wall.

      This story is painful, reminiscent of the recent train derailment in Lac Mégantic in Quebec, The owner of that railroad also had to declare bankruptcy. He was not fully aware of the possible liability of the product he was transporting.

      • hennorama

        JGC — thanks for using a workaround.

        Here’s the story on bloomberg.com:

        http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-17/freedom-industries-files-for-bankruptcy-in-west-virginia.html

        Now, get this perverse twist, reported on wvgazette.com:

        “Chemstream Holdings Inc. is the sole owner of Freedom Industries, according to the filing. Gary Southern, who is identified as Freedom’s president, signed all of the bankruptcy documents.

        “On Thursday, a source close to Freedom Industries, who asked to remain anonymous because of pending lawsuits, told The Charleston Gazette that Chemstream Holdings is owned by J. Clifford Forrest of Kittanning, Pa.

        “Forrest is listed as “manager” of Freedom affiliates Etowah River Terminal and Poca Blending in a merger filing from Dec. 31, 2013.

        “About an hour after its bankruptcy filing, Freedom filed an emergency motion for what’s called “debtor-in-possession,” or DIP, financing, which would allow it to secure up to a $5 million loan to continue to function in some capacity. The loan would, according to the filing, “provide additional liquidity to [Freedom] in order to allow it to continue as a going concern.”

        “The lender in “debtor-in-possession” cases generally get first priority when it comes time for the debtor, in this case Freedom, to pay money back.

        “Under the bankruptcy code, when there is DIP financing from a DIP lender, 99 percent of the time they get priority over all the other creditors,” said Bob Simon, a prominent bankruptcy lawyer with the Pittsburgh firm Reed Smith. “You’re putting your money in at risk and the debtor is not going to have a lot of options, so the bankruptcy clerk permits the DIP lender to get priority over all the other lenders.”

        “Freedom’s proposed lender is a company called WV Funding LLC. That company does not exist in West Virginia, according to business records on file with the West Virginia secretary of state. Pennsylvania’s secretary of state also has no records online for it.

        “The DIP agreement has places to sign for Freedom Industries and for WV Funding “by Mountaineer Funding LLC.”

        “Mountaineer Funding was incorporated with the West Virginia secretary of state on Friday. Its one listed member is J. Clifford Forrest, Freedom Industries’ owner.

        “The DIP agreement states that the terms “were negotiated by the parties in good faith and at arm’s length.”

        See:
        http://www.wvgazette.com/News/201401170030#license-201401170030

        What does this mean? If all of the above is accurate, then,

        J. Clifford Forrest = Chemstream Holdings = Freedom Industries

        WV Funding LLC = Mountaineer Funding LLC (a brand new entity that was INCORPORATED TODAY!!) = J. Clifford Forrest

        Therefore, if Freedom Industries goes belly up, then Mountaineer Funding LLC would get “first dibs” on any assets that Freedom Industries has. In other words, Freedom Industries, owned by J. Clifford Forrest, could wipe out any liabilities that exceed its assets, and pay out its assets to WV Funding LLC/Mountaineer Funding LLC, also owned by … J. Clifford Forrest.

        Told ya it was perverse.

        • JGC

          I wonder if they are getting some lawyerly advice from Koch Industries.

          Kittanning is not far away from my area in Pennsylvania. A little google here and there, and guess what? J. Clifford Forrest is somehow related to George Romero, the director of the original great zombie movie “Night of the Living Dead”, filmed in a mall in Monroeville PA. Years later Romero filmed another movie “Dawn of the Dead” (?), while married to Christine Forrest Romero and with a bit part played by J.Clifford Forrest Jr., the father of Chemstream Holdings J. Clifford Forrest III, (part of “elderly zombie”). This has nothing to do with anything… but how did the Forrest family go from playing zombies to making them?

          • hennorama

            JGC — from the perverse to the sublime to the ridiculous …

            The things we find along the way are often more interesting than what we started off looking for.

          • JGC

            americansforprosperityfoundation.com/help-us-on-the-ground-in-west-virginia

            This is the genius of the Koch Brothers: they have a hand in their private company benefitting from no regulations on chemical storage in WV, then when there is an industrial accident, they pitch to the public to donate to their foundation to help the orphaned and the elderly, and since it is a tax deductible organization, the federal government has to also match the donation through tax relief, causing further erosion in the deficit, to which the Kochs demand more decreases in government spending on SNAP benefits and the like.

        • OnPointComments

          Are you really surprised that when an accident like this happens that it results in bankruptcy? And further astonished that if J. Clifford Forrest is going to invest more of his separate funds in the bankrupt enterprise, that he would demand priority over other creditors?

          Were you equally incredulous when the DOE allowed private investors in Solyndra (who coincidentally were Obama campaign donors) to have priority over the $535 taxpayer loan if they made further investments in troubled Solyndra, which was already in default on the government loan?

          • hennorama

            OPC – thank you for your response.

            I am not surprised in the least that Freedom Industries and its ownership took these actions, as indicated by the lead of my post, ‘From the “What Took Them So Long?” file:’

            It’s just business. And (again, assuming all the reporting is accurate) for J. Clifford Forrest, it’s simply a matter of protecting his ASSets.

            Same thing with Solyndra. It stinks, but it’s just business.

            Thanks again for your response.

          • HonestDebate1

            Solyndra threw OUR money down a rat hole. That’s not the same thing in any shape, matter or form.

    • TFRX

      Remember that whenever someone says “corporations are people”. I understand the concept of limited liabilty, without which we’d still be in the (what?) 16th century financially.

      But the idea of bankruptcy is a smart move for a savvy corporation, whose leaders will go on to make other moves for other well-run corporations.

      But for individuals? I point us all back to the “bankruptcy reform” debate of last decade. For riffraff like you and I (proverbially) it’s a shameful dodge for lazy people, mochers, and overspenders who shouldn’t have gotten into debt.

      • hennorama

        TFRX — thanks for your thoughtful response.

        These actions by Freedom Industries and its ownership are exactly as you describe them, and are not surprising in the least. Utilizing the corporate shield to protect oneself from personal liability is a very useful and attractive feature of this type of legal entity, and it allows economic risk-taking, which is generally a positive for society.

        The odious aspect is that the same ownership may be able to not only absolve itself from liability, but also to resume operations, with barely a hiccup.

        Thanks again for your response.

    • JGC

      Here is a bedtime snack for everyone to chew on, including OnPointComments and TFRX (something for everyone!) From the Charleston Gazette, wvgazette.com by David Gutman, “Freedom executive had felonies, benefited from stimulus”

      ” …In 2008, Freedom Industries secured a contract to distribute a line of products called Talon that are used as a binder in coal processing…”We are excited to offer our customers inventive products like Talon that push past the status quo in coal recovery to bring profit and productivity benefits to mining preparation plants,” said a Freedom executive in the press release. Talon is made by Georgia-Pacific Chemicals LLC, owned by the billionaire industrialists Charles and David Koch. The Koch Brothers have, through a conservative group called Americans for Prosperity, spent millions of dollars campaigning against a wide array of environmental regulations.

      In 2009 Freedom Industries was at risk of either going out of business or leaving its location on the Elk River…Sand, silt and mud had built up in the river, making it difficult for barges to travel the 2.5 miles from the company’s river terminal to the Elk’s confluence with the Kanawha. But the river was dredged in 2009 by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, thanks to $400K from the federal stimulus. “It could’ve put us out of business,” Farrell told the Daily Mail about the undredged river…

      (Following the chemical spill that contaminated the water of 300,000 Kanawha Valley residents) Americans for Prosperity set up a water distribution site at Columbia Gas in Charleston…”

      • hennorama

        JGC — the more one reads about the interconnectivity of these organizations, the more one perceives a sort of incestousness.

        This is not limited to the corporations and artificial entities. In the linked article, we learn that Kathy Stover-Kennedy, the fianceé of “Dennis P. Farrell …listed as the president of Freedom Industries on the company’s website,” is Carl Kennedy’s ex-wife.

        Kennedy, who co-founded Freedom Industries but is no longer part of the company, is a convicted tax evader and drug dealer, according to the linked article.

        It appears that not paying taxes is part of the normal business practices for Freedom Industries. Per wvgazette.com,

        “The company also owes more than $2.4 million in unpaid taxes to the Internal Revenue Service, and the IRS has placed at least three liens on Freedom’s property, demanding payment.

        “The unpaid taxes date back to at least 2000, according to a lien filed in 2010.”

        See:
        http://www.wvgazette.com/News/201401170030

  • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

    Has anyone else noticed the new “community rules” ? Perhaps I am just overly sensitive to some words, and I did have a comment removed for naming a band that was in prison in Russia, and I do feel unwelcome here. But the first rule seems to me to be often ignored.
    How is it that so many people pay lip service to “politeness” and “civility” and feel comfortable being mean?

    • jefe68

      It’s their lemonade stand.

      • nj_v2

        Well, it being “public” radio (at least marginally), it’s kind of our lemonade stand.

        • jefe68

          The percentage of our taxes that pay for public radio is minuscule. BUR and it’s members are picking up the lions share of the costs. In my opinion they call the shots.

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            So the members don’t loose any of their First Amendment rights to free speech just because they choose to express themselves with dollars and not shouts? Be careful or you may just start agreeing with Citizens United.

          • jefe68

            Nope, that’s not what I was implying.
            The rules governing forums such as this are pretty straight forward. If you or I don’t like them we don’t have to post. One could start their own blog and so on.
            You and I do not own this forum and we don’t make the rules that govern it.
            Even if I was a member I would not have the right to break the rules set up by BUR regarding this comment page.
            My point is using the ruse of being a tax payer does not mean you get to have a voice in how the rules are set.
            It’s interesting that someone on the right would go on about their taxes in terms of fairness or having more control over the content of BUR. What’s interesting it’s usually the right who want to cut the funding for NPR. You can’t have it both ways.

          • HonestDebate1

            “My point is using the ruse of being a tax payer does not mean you get to have a voice in how the rules are set.”

            Oy.

          • jefe68

            How is that you or I as a tax payer get to decide what the rules are on WBUR’s On Point forum? They are the ones running it.
            If you don’t like the new rules write a letter of protest, that’s your First Amendment right. It’s not your right to dictate to the shows producers what the rules are just because .00005% of the few tax dollars go into the funding of NPR.

          • HonestDebate1

            I wouldn’t be bitchin’ if I didn’t have to pay for it.

          • jefe68

            Given that the amount of federal and state taxes is 4.6% of the total for NPR finances, it would seem to me you have used up that “bitchin” chip.

            But you keep on posting whatever turns your fancy. After all it is your First Amendment Right, even if the content is misguided by right wing propaganda.

            http://www.npr.org/about-npr/178660742/public-radio-finances

          • HonestDebate1

            Let’s give Rush one tenth of one percent of what we give NPR.

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            We may be talking across each other here. So I wish to express my concern be more clearly.
            WBUR, On-Point, and Tom Ashbrook all have the right to express an opinion and report any story they wish to, as they wish to. I will defend there right as vigorously as I would defend my own.
            They are the unquestioned owners of this site and as such should be the ones that decide the standards of this community.
            I assert that they have special duties in community service. (Please read my comment in reply to nj_v2.)

            I question if they will apply the rules fairly. (Please read the example I provided to hennorama.)
            These concerns are not because I am a tax payer or a WBUR member. Or whether or not I wish to de-fund Big Bird. It is because I believe we are all poorly served by the “press” and wish to remind journalists of their constitutional obligations.

          • jefe68

            I agree, the do have a duty to the community. However they are still allowed to set the rules of a public forum as they see fit. You or I can protest them if we have a disagreement with them. One could write to NPR’s Ombudsman

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            What they can do and what they should do are different things. I argue for a uniform application of the rules, Blind Justice, to coin a phrase. Developments since the start of this thread give me cause for some hope.

        • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

          I would say that any “News” organization is kinda our lemonade stand because of the special place they hold in our Constitution.

          • nj_v2

            Surely you’re kidding. Or delusional. Or drunk. Or some combination. Or maybe i misunderstand your point.

            The various “small-government” advocates of which your organization is one, yell and scream for reductions for nearly any program or agency that doesn’t involve defense, including public broadcasting.

            Corporate media is universally beholden to their corporate interests and not to “our Constitution.” In the worst cases—Fox so-called News, for example—the entire operation is, functionally, a conservative political propaganda agency that happens to employ a few journalists.

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            Assuming you are from NJ perhaps the effluence from the refineries has obscured your vision or impaired your thinking process. So I can understand your confusion on my point.
            1) The Press is a non-governmental entity vest with a specific duty by our Constitution.
            2) We the citizens of the USA have a duty to hold the press accountable.
            3) Therefore “News” organization should feel obligated to share the criticism of the community they seek to serve.
            I hope that makes my assertion more understandable to you.
            Further more:
            There is no such thing as non-corporate media. (http://www.cpb.org/)
            It is very easy to demonstrate that the vast majority of journalists are members of the leftist extreme of the Democratic party and vacillate between working in the news room and in appointed positions in government.

            You should keep your straw men in your garden, they will not help you here as distractions from the issues we are discussing.

          • jefe68

            Well, yes and no. The owners of the news organizations and the board of directors, if they have them, call the shots.
            The reporters are protected by the 1st amendment and I dare say most peoples comments would be, but that does not mean a news organization is bound by the 1st Amendment to write bylaws for a comment forum.

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            First off the First Amendment applies to everyone.
            Secondly I am speaking more about societal action than about governmental regulation. As in the phrase: “there are some things you just don’t do.”

          • JGC

            Just musing over this- I would hope that news is reported objectively. But it does tend to get filtered through the lens of the owner of the news organization. I was struck this past week about the high quality of the reporting that has been coming from the small local news organizations like the Bergen County (NJ) Record and the Charleston (WV)Gazette, and what happens when a polarizing figure like Roger Ailes takes over the local newspaper (Philipstown, NY).

            Likewise, are gun and ammunition manufacturers selling their products from our lemonaid stand because of the special place they hold in our Constitution?

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            No to draw an exact parallel from the First to the Second, we need to remind all those in the uniformed services that the highest rank is not general or admiral but Citizen.

      • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

        Agreed, and I wish to play by the rules. But I do have concerns about the impartiality of the umpires, as well as the quality of the lemons

    • JGC

      Yes, I saw it, too. There are a lot of sites now that are cracking down on the code- I think I read that Popular Mechanics is totally doing away with a comments section, because they are tired of patrolling it (who would have thought Popular Mechanics would have a troll/obscenity/dictator problem?) – and other sites are employing word searches to flag possible language issues (HonestDebate and I had a heckuva a time trying to post to each other about Richard Cheney, because no one calls him Richard, they call him D__k), etc.

      You certainly don’t have anything to worry about in that regard, but I am sorry you don’t feel welcome. I am no fan of the Tea Party, but I do appreciate your posts which are always thoughtful and sometimes make me pause and think “hmmmm…”

      • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

        Thank you for your kind words. Frankly that is the reason I post here. I refuse to believe that you and I can not talk with each other about the serious issues facing our Republic, our country and our culture. To disengage from people because they disagree with this our that issue would lead to a cold and lonely place for us all.

    • vito33

      You had a comment removed for “naming a band that was in prison in Russia”?? Who do you think you are?
      Every news organization on the planet has named them both on the air and in print. Including NPR.
      I have some news for you: You have the right not to be assaulted, slandered, libeled, robbed from, or extorted.
      However, you do not have the right ‘not to be offended’.
      Grow up.

      • JGC

        I am really not getting your comment. If every news organization has named them in print and on air, including NPR and WBUR, then why are we consistently screened out for printing the same in context?

        And according to WBUR’s new “community rules”, people do in fact have the right to be offended, and some are going to act on that.

        • vito33

          What don’t you get?
          “If every news organization has named them in print and on air, including NPR and WBUR, then why are we consistently screened out for printing the same in context?”
          Well, that’s exactly what I’m saying.
          As to your second point, I’ll say it again: People don’t have the right “not to be offended”. If that’s what the ‘new rules’ say, that’s way out of line.

          I

      • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

        “This comment awaiting moderation”

        QED

    • Salvor Hardin

      I doubt NPR is censoring your comments after reading them. This is probably just an automated process looking for the standard naughty words so it probably doesn’t know the context they are used in.

      The censored comments should get flagged for moderation and a human should be able to look at the context and allow the comment. I don’t know if they have this review process in place. So these comments probably just getting tossed into digital oblivion.

      So I wouldn’t take it too personally but perhaps they can explain their censoring policy. Some words do have a non-swearing context that they can be used in. The P word that you mentioned would definitely fall into that category – although I’m sure the band name was not referring to cats :)

      • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

        I’m sure you are correct. I am sure that they have their own problems with scammers and it is prudent for them to display the rules prominently.

    • hennorama

      RWB — a few days ago, there was a discussion about the increased public presence of the Moderator in the forum. The Moderator identified himself as

      [nick andersen
      web producer | on point radio]

      and stated “I’ll work on a ‘rules’ sheet and post it soon. Thanks for your thoughts!”

      The [community rules] link was a result of this discussion.

      You can see the original exchanges beginning with a post that was “Off Point,” here:

      http://onpoint.wbur.org/2014/01/07/iraq-syria-al-qaeda-civil-war-sunni-shiite#comment-1190423140

      I for one certainly hope you continue to post, and to hang in on the discussions, despite what you perceive as meanness.

      And you might consider an alternate nickname for that band, e.g. “Kittycat Melee.”

      • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

        Hennorama, Thank you for you kind words. They are like a cool spring bubbling up in the desert. Thank also for your suggestion on how to refer to the Russian all girl punk band that Putin is so affair of he put them in a gulag. You can be certain that while I draw breath I will post here. The alternative is unconscionable…

        “But conscience ask the question, is it right? And there comes a time when we must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular, but one must take it because it is right.”

        -Dr. Martin Luther King

        I would ask your opinion on the second part of my comment. Many people here seem to be genuinely baffled that I take exception to their use of the John Waters idiom to describe me and my friends. “Haters gotta Hate.” indeed, but why do some that claim to act out of compassion for their fellow man exhibit such vivid passion in insulting and attacking others. The Worcester Telegram has a similar policy about the letters that they publish. It includes:

        We do not publish letters that we believe come under the libel laws. Material may be libelous if it holds a private person or organization up to hatred, contempt, suspicion or wrongdoing, scorn or ridicule. We review letters about active court cases carefully.
        We do not publish hate mail or letters that are obviously offensive to good taste.

        That not withstanding, they published a letter that described the members of the Tea Party movement as old men that wished to force poor women to have babies so they can molest them. Think about the depravity of a person that would compose such letter for publication and but their name to it. Further more imagine that the newspaper of record in your city published such a letter and claimed that it did not violate their own printed standards. (I would link to it but it is now behind a pay wall.)

        Dr. Kings words ring in my ears. So I will continue to post comments here, but I do not expect it to be safe or popular.

        • hennorama

          RWB — in general, the relative anonymity aspect of forums such as this can lead to a lack of civility and a significant level of indecorous remarks. This anonymity allows one to make comments without the fear of a fist/face interaction, and to engage in “mean” behavior that would be unlikely to occur in real, public life.

          In addition, the simple fact of anyone taking the time to post a comment indicates a level of passion in the writer, and a willingness to engage in what at times is adversarial discourse.

          It is not always easy to disagree without being disagreeable, but that should be the standard to which we aspire.

          And of course, it’s not always easy to “do as I say, not as I do,” as your comment above clearly demonstrates.

          Finally, please allow me to repeat my paraphrasing of the late Sen. Barry Goldwater:

          “Ignoring the ignorant in the defense of sanity is no vice.”

          • brettearle

            Disqus

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            TY you for your response but I must have been unclear in my earlier post. I do not expect much of those that I disagree with. The part I play is to make them defended the unexamined assumptions they hold. (Some what successfully in this broader exchange.) As a mosquito pricking their conscience I can not expect any mercy. I freely volunteered for this knowing the costs and risks. (Do you know about Brett: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/05/25/readymeet-soros-funded-domestic-terrorist-brett-kimberlin-whose-job-is-terrorizing-bloggers-into-silence/) I am advocating the radical notion that there should be one set of rules for everyone. And that those that write and enforce the rules must live up to them. I believe that either you want a small d democratic society or you want an aristocracy. The members of the Tea Party movement are fighting for equal rights for every one not special privileges for special interests.

          • hennorama

            RWB – it is perfectly reasonable to have high expectations of those with whom you disagree, and to expect that they conduct themselves in a manner consistent with the rules of this forum, and polite society in general. That does not mean that they (or you, or I) will meet such expectations at all times, as passions do tend to run a bit higher “in here” than in the real, public, world of daily life.

            Your membership in the TPM makes you an attractive target for many, and your sensitivity to what might fairly be described as insults and attacks, only serves as positive feedback to those seeking a target.

            Taking the high road is the clear path forward. Ignore the ignorant, in defense of your sanity.

            As Eleanor Roosevelt said, “No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”

            See:
            http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/e/eleanorroo161321.html#xgmGFgF8XDCXoDDg.99

            As to what you described earlier as “the John Waters idiom,” the issue of the derivation of the term, in relation to the TPM and its origins, is one explanation as to why this term is being used freely and mockingly by some. Those users seem to believe it’s OK, since “you guys used it first.”

            See:
            http://theweek.com/article/index/202620/the-evolution-of-the-word-tea-bagger

            Thanks for your response.

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            Ty for your kind suggestions I am sorry I was unable to respond before now. It seems you are missing the core of my argument. The point I feel I must make is two fold.
            1) People that claim to be motivated by kindness and love are prove they are not when they use mean and hateful rhetoric.
            2) NPR will be selective in the application of their own new rules.
            On the second point I have some hope to be proven wrong so I will wait more evidence to accumulate.

            I must respond to some of what you have offered. I am little moved by flattery or insult, in the old school it was a transgression of the unwritten law to be so malleable.

            If you can keep your head when all about you
            Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
            If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
            But make allowance for their doubting too;
            If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
            Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
            Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
            And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:

            I would think that you of all people would understand that claims of “…well he did it first!” are best left at the doors of kindergartens and that responsible adults must know that wrong is still wrong if everybody does it and right is still write even when only one person does it.

          • hennorama

            RWB — you’re welcome, and no worries.

            I understood your points about hypocrisy on both counts, and realize that you are of the “old school.” And certainly I have no issues whatsoever with someone holding firm to their principles and views, especially, if they are a minority of one.

            By now you must realize that I view the “John Waters idiom” as disrespectful and inappropriate, in much the same way as I view various and sundry other terms that are used quite freely “in here” and elsewhere. And no doubt you have observed my ignoring of various baited posts, despite the difficulty in doing so.

            We both agree — disagree with others as much as you wish, just avoid being disagreeable.

            Thanks for your thoughtful response.

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            I am here in search of those I can disagree with agreeably.

          • hennorama

            RWB — best of luck in your quest, and en garde!

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            Sabre or Epee?

          • hennorama

            RWB — words only, but as sharp as necessary.

    • Government_Banking_Serf

      Community Rules vs. Free Speech.

      We just can’t get away from the crux of our debates here.

      Pure spam or obscenity seems very rare here. If we can’t have tolerance to wade through viewpoints we don’t agree with, whats the point?

      Liberty, Tolerance and Diversity are good bed fellows, but struggles with tolerance often come from the most self-righteous quarters (Religious Right and modern liberals).

      Live and let live, vote with your ballot, dollars, and feet, and try to take the longer view of peaceful coexistence and how too much coercion undermines it.

      On Point seems to be doing a good job so far, hope more active moderation doesn’t change things in the name of oversensitivity, political correctness, or worse. I have faith it won’t.

  • OnPointComments

    I think the people from the Obamacare ad agency must surely be availing themselves of the legal marijuana being sold in some states. It’s the only reason I can come up with for the totally bizarre promotions.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJQXkIEqMMA#t=18

    • HonestDebate1

      It’s bizarre. And this on the heels of insinuating women are floozies and making insulting stereotypes about gay men.

    • JGC

      Here are some from Bill Maher –

      TEXAS – because we all get shot sooner or later. GET COVERED.

      NEVADA- because what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas…if you’ve got the right antibiotics. GET COVERED.

      IOWA – I have no idea how that corn cob got up there, but Obamacare’s gonna get it out. GET COVERED.

      • hennorama

        JGC — two others are obvious:

        OKLAHOMA — for when everything is not OK, GET COVERED.

        WEST VIRGINIA — because you never know what’s gonna be in the water. GET COVERED.

  • TFRX

    If only it weren’t so predictable, but it looks (again) like the GOP in many a red state has basically given up on governance, becauseObamacare.

    From an insurance co healthcare attorney.

    I wanted to share our experience with the
    implementation of the ACA. I know the idea is that state legislators have been working to subvert the ACA, but it actually goes deeper.

    We are in a few states. One is Kentucky, a state based exchange, and the other states have conservative governors who opted to be part of the federal exchange. Even though states opt to be part of the federal exchange, the states are still responsible, in some cases, for day to day insurance activities (approval of forms, rates, etc). In the process of undergoing all of these changes and trying to make sense of all the new requirements between the federal and state
    exchanges, Kentucky has been excellent. The Kentucky Department of Insurance has helpful staff that answers the phone and gets back to us if we have questions or issues. The other departments of insurance in states with conservative governors have basically ignored our calls.

    It’s taken me no less than three weeks to get returned phone calls when I leave messages. No one outside of Kentucky
    has ever actually answered their phone directly. I’ve had to run the gamut all the way up as far as possible in the phone chain to get basic questions answered. Some states have created email addresses where questions can be submitted, but those have gone completely unanswered. The departments of insurance in those states were completely, and I mean
    COMPLETELY unprepared and the amount of time wasted running basic information to ground is colossal.

    I don’t know what was up. Maybe in those other states the Tea Party sorts all sat on their bottoms figuring the ACA would be struck down, and there wasn’t a plan to actually, yknow, do the governance bit.

  • HonestDebate1

    “The danger to majority rule — to him sort of thinking, well, the majority voted for me, now I’m the majority, I can do whatever I want, and that there are no rules that restrain me — that’s what gave us Jim Crow,” Paul said. “That’s what gave us the internment of the Japanese — that the majority said you don’t have individual rights, and individual rights don’t come from your creator, and they’re not guaranteed by the Constitution. It’s just whatever the majority wants.”

    Paul added: “There’s a real danger to that viewpoint, but it’s consistent with the progressive viewpoint. … Progressives believe in majority rule, not constitutional rule.”

    Bingo.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/01/17/rand-paul-obamas-concept-of-majority-rule-is-what-led-to-jim-crow/

    • jefe68

      “I earned capital in this campaign, political capital, and now I intend to spend it”

      “When you win, there is … a feeling that the people have spoken and embraced your point of view”

      I guess one former president would beg to differ on Paul’s ideas.

      • HonestDebate1

        “… and that’s what I intend to tell the Congress,”

        The legislative process driven by the will of the people, what a novel concept.

        • jefe68

          Which is what Obama has said as well.
          I can cherry pick too. That was one of my points. The other, all presidents have their agendas and what you’re trying to do here is a joke. Now if you wanted to discuss how Obama has been pulling the wool over Congress’s eyes with Trans Pacific partnership deal then you would be on to something.

      • Government_Banking_Serf

        Two wrongs make a right. Classic downfall (for the rest of us) of two party apologists, and fertilizer for the status quo.

        • jefe68

          Never said they did.

    • TFRX

      That fool compared breaking the abusive filibuster practice of the GOP minority senate to Jim Crow.

      You deserve the idiots you proverbially lie down with.

      • hennorama

        TFRX — perhaps there should be some sort of slavery-related corollary to Godwin’s Law.

      • Labropotes

        You know what’s a drag? That that guy didn’t compare Jim Crow to the filibuster. He said that pure majority rule leads to unfortunate outcomes. It’s a real drag that you have to make up reasons to call other people fools.

        Imagine we were congress. We’d be worse than the real thing, thanks to junk like your comment.

        • Salvor Hardin

          I believe he purposely used those two “examples” because they were both tied to Democrats. Southern Democrats for Jim Crow and FDR for the Japanese. So those were not just “examples”. Not because these were Progressive examples.

          Rand Paul seems particularly fond of this type of demagoguery. I don’t even know how this majority dictatorship that Progressives resort to is supposed to work. I see Republicans just as anxious to claim that they are implementing the will of the people when they get elected to office.

    • Labropotes

      HD, there is a passage in the 18-page New Yorker piece that goes to your point. But Obama seems to understand the limits, if his supporters don’t.

      “Then it happened again: another heckler broke into Obama’s speech. A man in the balcony repeatedly shouted out, ‘Executive order!,’ demanding that the President bypass Congress with more unilateral actions. Obama listened with odd indulgence. Finally, he said, ‘I’m going to actually pause on this issue, because a lot of people have been saying this lately on every problem, which is just, “Sign an executive order and we can pretty much do anything and basically nullify Congress.” ‘

      Many in the crowd applauded their approval. Yes! Nullify it! Although Obama has infuriated the right with relatively modest executive orders on gun control and some stronger ones on climate change, he has issued the fewest of any modern President, except George H. W. Bush.

      ‘Wait, wait, wait,’ Obama said. ‘Before everybody starts clapping, that’s not how it works. We’ve got this Constitution, we’ve got this whole thing about separation of powers. So there is no shortcut to politics, and there’s no shortcut to democracy.’ The applause was hardly ecstatic. Everyone knew what he meant. The promises in the second inaugural could be a long time coming.”

      • HonestDebate1

        I am more cynical. The SCOTUS is considering the issue of his recess appointments as we speak. And he has certainly disregarded the law of the land with several Obamacare delays. I don’t even know if he bothered to issue an EO, so I do think he meant what he said about using the pen. I think he said he’d use the telephone too which scares me… another day.

        Regarding his authority, here is what he said about his authority to end certain deportations by executive order. It sounds just like the quote you provided. He ended up doing it anyway.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfZ3kaKZoIw

  • OnPointComments

    From the Senate Intelligence Committee’s report on the Benghazi (emphasis added):

    In the last analysis, however, it is the State Department that must bear most of the blame for failing to provide adequate security and not preventing the preventable. This leaves the department on the same hook that an investigation by former Ambassador Thomas Pickering and Adm. Mike Mullen, the retired chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, put it on last year when it faulted the department’s “systemic failures and leadership and management deficiencies.”

    I wonder if liberals can bring themselves to answer the question “Who was at the head of leadership and management in the State Department when the attack occurred in Benghazi?”

    • Government_Banking_Serf

      “Leadership” “Management”

      What’s with you guys and this accountability crap?

      This is all fun and games, relax, join the beltway. You don’t think the lives and views of the electorate really matter, do you?

      What difference, at this point, does it make!?!

      Just forget this stuff so we can have an exciting Hillary/Christie party for the next 2 years. If you keep pushing, they’ll both be done.

  • Government_Banking_Serf

    RE: Community rules

    “comparisons to notorious dictators — you get the idea.”

    As long as we are still “allowed” to mention them in conversations about socio-economic-political theories and history. Such explorations and comparisons to our modern day issues is very fair, as we find the country debating very foundational issues today.

    While of course personal attacks are counterproductive and juvenile, honestly questioning sympathies etc seems fair conversational game.

  • OnPointComments

    Here is unsurprising information: the vast majority of the enrollees under Obamacare are people whose plans were cancelled by Obamacare.

    COVERAGE EXPANSION FAIL: LESS THAN ONE-THIRD OF OBAMACARE EXCHANGE ENROLLEES WERE PREVIOUSLY UNINSURED
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/01/18/coverage-expansion-fail-less-than-one-third-of-obamacare-exchange-enrollees-were-previously-uninsured/

    McKinsey & Co., indicates that “only 11 percent of consumers who bought new coverage under the law were previously uninsured.”

    HealthMarkets, a insurance holding company based in Texas, conducted its own survey based on the 7,500-or-so people that the company enrolled in exchange-based plans. Based on their survey, obtained by Wilde and Mathews, only 35 percent of enrollees were previously uninsured.

    Priority Health, a non-profit health insurer in Michigan, surveyed 1,000 “enrollees…in plans that comply with the law,” and found that only a quarter were previously uninsured.

    If we assume that around one-third of exchange enrollees were previously uninsured, and that 90 percent of those who have “selected a marketplace plan” will eventually enroll in coverage, the Obamacare exchanges have thus far only expanded coverage to 660,000 people, far less than the 7 million projected by the Congressional Budget Office.

    …the Obama administration is wildly exaggerating the number of people who have signed up for the law’s expansion of the Medicaid program for low-income Americans. The administration claims that more than 4 million Americans have signed up for Medicaid coverage under the law. But Sean Trende of RealClearPolitics figures that only 5 to 7.5 percent of those enrollees were due to Obamacare.

  • HonestDebate1

    What are Canadians going to do when they can no longer flee to America for quality health care?

    http://dailycaller.com/2014/01/16/report-tens-of-thousands-fled-socialized-canadian-medicine-in-2013/

    • JGC

      As I once pointed out to my good friend funbobby, Canadians have a life expectancy of 82 years compared to Americans who only get a paltry 79 years. That gives me a full three extra years to spend waiting in the healthcare line while you are prematurely enjoying your just reward. : )

      The Fraser Institute is a Canadian conservative libertarian think tank with their own ax to grind against the social insurance policy in Canada. Almost 42,000 Canadians were medical tourists in 2012 (according to Fraser), but this is out of a population of 35-million Canadians. The CDC estimates that 750,000 U.S. residents travel abroad for care each year, doing so because it is much cheaper in another country, even with the travel expenses.

    • jefe68

      JGC posted what I was going to post, so all I have to add is as usual you cherry pick things to skew your ideology.
      A 7th grade child with decent math skills could see that our system is economically flawed when compared with any other health care system in the developed world.
      And we don’t even come close to being able to provide health care for the majority of our population.

      Linking to the Daily Caller shows me that you’re not really interested in “honest debate” but only posting right wing screeds.

    • TFRX

      More crap from Tucker the Fncker. What a surprise.

  • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

    Your comment appeared so I checked and my original comment has come out of moderation as appears in the thread for December 20, 2013.
    I see this as a hopeful sign. Thank you for the part you played.

  • hennorama

    On a positive note:

    “35 Pictures That Prove The World Isn’t Such A Bad Place

    Everything is NOT terrible.”

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/the-world-isnt-such-a-bad-place

    • Labropotes

      Clearly a series of false-flag operations intended to trick Americans into believing that there is hope.

      • hennorama

        Labropotes — thank you for the comic relief.

  • JGC

    Here’s another opinion on public versus private ownership (from “The Loudest Voice in the Room”) -

    At his (Roger Ailes’) window, he pointed at an outdoor sculpture exhibit at Boscobel House and Gardens, a half-mile in the distance. “Do you think they have the right to block my view?” Roger asked.

    “Isn’t it their property?” Foley (a local Philpstown, NY journalist asked.

    “It’s not their property! It’s a nonprofit! They get tax breaks!” Roger replied.

  • TFRX

    What does it take for a right-winger-suggested judicial nominee to suddenly not be fit?

    (Trick question: We all know the answer is Obama has to nominate the choice the Republican loves.)

    In 2009, Sen. Richard Burr (R-NC) wrote a letter to
    President Obama recommending that he nominate Jennifer May-Parker, a federal prosecutor from his state, to a judicial vacancy on a federal trial court. Last June, the president agreed with Burr’s recommendation, and nominated Ms. May-Parker to be a federal district judge.

    And now Burr is blocking May-Parker’s nomination, invoking an arcane Senate tradition that allows senators to unilaterally veto judicial nominees from their own state. In an interview with the Huffington Post’s Jennifer Bendery, Burr refused to explain why the woman he once said has “the requisite qualifications to serve with distinction” as a federal district judge is suddenly unfit to be a federal district judge.

    Today’s right wing: They must think we’re stupid.

    • JGC

      I wonder if Leahy will suspend the blue slip on this nomination, as is his right to do so.

  • hennorama

    The Mythbusters have been researching solutions for any recurrences of the GWB traffic issues. They foound one, which can be seen about 2:00 into this clip:

    http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/videos/car-crash-cliches-aftershow.htm

  • JGC

    I hope Hillary and Company are more circumspect in the use of their “loyalty” list than Christie and Company were in the deployment of theirs.

    • HonestDebate1

      Well, there’s Susan McDouglal and who could forget Webb Hubbell? They were as loyal as they come but still couldn’t hold a candle to poor poor Vince.

      • JGC

        They were and are loyal to the end, inspite of the overzealous Starr inquiries. Webb Hubbell has a nice inspirational site, thehubbellpew.com

        Prime Minister Harper also had a “friend and enemy stakeholder” list (that was the name of it in his office). One of his staff misguidely used it to generate robocalls to misdirect “enemy stakeholders” to the wrong voting precincts. One has to be very careful in the use of these lists, because it seems too easy for staff to devolve them into instruments of revenge.

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