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Week In The News: Obamacare Glitches, Drone Strikes And NSA Revelations

Obamacare rollout under scrutiny. NSA snooping angers U.S. allies. Students killing teachers. Our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

Cheryl Campbell, senior vice president of CGI listens at left as Andy Slavitt, representing QSSI's parent company, testifies on Capitol Hill in Washington, Thursday, Oct. 24, 2013, before the House Energy and Commerce Committee hearing with contractors that built the federal government's health care websites. (AP)

Cheryl Campbell, senior vice president of CGI listens at left as Andy Slavitt, representing QSSI’s parent company, testifies on Capitol Hill in Washington, Thursday, Oct. 24, 2013, before the House Energy and Commerce Committee hearing with contractors that built the federal government’s health care websites. (AP)

U.S. allies all over not happy this week as news comes out that the NSA spied on them.  Their top leaders.  Angela Merkel’s cell phone.  And many more.  Acht du lieber!  Spies gone wild.  In Washington, it was all healthcare.gov all the time as hearings geared up on the Obamacare rollout.  And still it’s rocky.  The president says it’s time for immigration reform.  GOP not so sure.  East and West we’ve got dead teachers, killed by students.  And Amnesty International goes after American drone strikes.  Up next On Point: our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

– Tom Ashbrook

Guests

David Sanger, chief Washington correspondent for the New York Times. (@SangerNYT)

Kelly O’Donnell, Capitol Hill correspondent for NBC News. (@KellyO)

Jack Beatty, On Point news analyst.

From Tom’s Reading List

New York Times: Pakistani Premier Meets Obama to Mend Ties – “To symbolize a new beginning, the Obama administration will release more than $1.5 billion in aid to Pakistan, which had been held up because of tensions over the commando raid that killed Osama bin Laden in 2011, as well as the killing of two civilians by a C.I.A. contractor in Lahore and a wayward American airstrike that killed 24 Pakistani soldiers near the Afghan border.”

The Guardian: Angela Merkel’s call to Obama: are you bugging my mobile phone? – “While European leaders have generally been keen to play down the impact of the whistleblowing disclosures in recent months, events in the EU’s two biggest countries this week threatened an upward spiral of lack of trust in transatlantic relations. Merkel’s spokesman, Steffen Seibert, made plain that Merkel upbraided Obama unusually sharply and also voiced exasperation at the slowness of the Americans to respond to detailed questions on the NSA scandal since the Snowden revelations first appeared in the Guardian in June.”

National Journal: Buck Stops With Obama on Rocky Rollout of Health Care Plan — “To be sure, every major rollout of a new or changed social policy, including Medicare itself, is rough and takes weeks or months to resolve. But this rollout is clearly worse, and, as we learn more about its history over the past six months and more, the failures in vision and execution, in the face of clear and blunt warnings of problems ahead, are striking and troubling.”

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  • fun bobby

    how do you say “can you hear me now?” in german?

    • Mike_Card

      This, from an East German where 33% of the population lived on spy income derived from the other 67%. She would know…

  • Matt MC

    I bet Angela Merkel has some pretty freaky, starched shirt skeletons in her closet.

  • Wm_James_from_Missouri

    Hello ?

    • JGC

      This NSA program started in 2006, if not earlier. Thanks, Bush! (It’s never too early in the day to blame Bush.)

      • TFRX

        It’s never too early in the day to remember “who didn’t care when Bush did X”, either.

  • Wm_James_from_Missouri
  • Fiscally_Responsible

    The problems and shortcomings of The Affordable Care Act go
    way beyond the disfunctionality of the website, as is shallowly being reported by the major networks, NPR, and totally ignored by left wing sources such as The Nation. Fortunately, one network, Fox News, is reporting the myriad problems in a fair and balanced way. Hannity had an hour long expose of the false promises that President Obama and others in his administration made over and over again in selling this monstrosity to the American people. We were told that “our premiums would go down by $2500 per person” and “if you like your current plan, you can keep your current plan”. For the small NGO that I work for, both statements are blatantly untrue.
    The total cost of the premiums for our employees will go up by 10% when we enroll. More seriously, the out of
    pocket deductibles/maximums will increase by a whopping $38,000 per year or 152%. Because of the supposed tax
    credits that the federal government will provide (if they can get that part of the computer program to work), IT WOULD BE CHEAPER OVERALL (COST TO EMPLOYER
    AND EMPLOYEE) FOR US TO DROP OUR COVERAGE FOR OUR EMPLOYEES AND INSTEAD INCREASE THEIR
    SALARIES AND LET THEM BUY THEIR OWN INSURANCE ON THE EXCHANGE, WHICH IS WHAT NUMEROUS EMPLOYERS ARE DOING. This certainly was not the original intent of
    the program, but is an unintended consequence of its poor design. In his discussion with the audience, even the
    ardent supporters of Obamacare had to admit that there are major disconnects between what was promised vs. what is being delivered. IT IS TIME TO SCRAP THIS MONSTROSITY AND TAKE A MULLIGAN (START OVER). I am thankful
    for objective news sources such as Fox News that are accurately reporting the true story with depth and facts rather than shallow hyperbole typical of the mainstream news sources that most people get their news from. I am anxious to await how Jack Beatty positively spins the Obamacare fiasco.

    • Wm_James_from_Missouri

      All I can say at this time is ‘I’m feeling a little sick’ about my deductible going up $1500, per year. I am curious, though, how would you solve the healthcare cost crisis? How would you insure the uninsurable? Let’s face it, no working person can afford any of these plans! No “average Joe” can afford to retire, either. Let’s go further, no working family can afford the prices, taxes or upkeep on homes either or the price of these cars, some can‘t afford food !

      My father passed away last year, he started working at age 11, worked until age 70, retired with a small pension from the first real company he worked at and reasonable size pension from the Teamsters. Due to the fact that he became somewhat senile towards the end, he ended up owing back taxes, then his hospital bills and the bills from his stay at the home took everything and then some. ( I am stuck paying his bills ! This will be happening everywhere, very soon.) Between my father and mother, I have lost, thousands of dollars in income, due to lost work, etc..

      This is money that should have been invested, for MY retirement. Like I said, this is, or will be everywhere.

      Mr. Financial, we have been in a downward spiral now for over 35 years! Neither party is fixing anything. We MUST stop this bickering, sit down and try to figure things out. Let’s hear your plan. Show me! Explain it to me! I’m serious. I really want to know. Sell me!

      • John Cedar

        OUR PLAN:
        1.)Don’t make things 10x worse than they already were…
        2.)…

        As you can see, it only took me two seconds to come up with a 10x better plan than Obamacare.

        • Fiscally_Responsible

          You are right! No plan is better than a plan that is sure to bankrupt our country.

          • John Cedar

            “You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”?

      • Fiscally_Responsible

        William,

        I share your pain. As far as “how would I solve the health care crisis”, I am not a public policy or health policy expert. But I’m not the person who lied to and misled the American public in order to get my social agenda passed. It was the current administration. There was an excellent article several weeks ago in Time Magazine that cited countless examples of waste, fraud, abuse, disincentives to efficiency, etc. in our health care system. So there are fixes out there. But throwing hundreds of millions of dollars at a problem and lying to the American people is not part of a real solution. Perhaps if they had tried honesty from the beginning, they would be closer to a real solution and would not have to be wasting doing damage control because they didn’t do it right the first time.

      • JGC

        Sorry for your family and financial difficulties, Wm James. I have to ask, though, why would you be personally liable to pay your father’s bills? Unless you co-signed on a loan for him, or something similar…Anyway, I would think you do not have any legal obligation to pay his bills or back taxes; would any creditors not just be paid out of his “estate”? You should save your own money for yourself, which you will surely need for your own retirement years.

      • Don_B1

        You are correct in saying that the downward spiral has been in evidence since the 1980s.

        President Clinton tried to make a start on change to correct this in 1993-1994, but the midterm election of 1994 where Republicans took the Congress and that ended that.

        But if something like the PPACA had been available for your father when he was still working, your problems would have been greatly lessened.

        While the PPACA will not complete the task, it is a first step, just as turning the wheel of a huge ocean tanker is the first step in turning it to a new direction.

        • John Cedar

          “President Clinton tried to make a start on change to correct this in
          1993-1994, but the midterm election of 1994 where Republicans took the
          Congress and that ended that.”

          You make it sounds like a theft. The voters appointed control of congress to Republicans,

      • olderworker

        Not sure who to direct you to, but you should NOT be stuck with your parents’ bills. I work in a nursing home and I know we can’t bill the adult children.

    • JGC

      Are you sure that employers dropping coverage, then providing a fixed dollar amount to let their employees shop for their own coverage on the exchange , “was not the original intent of the program but is an unintended consequence” ?

      • Fiscally_Responsible

        JGC,

        Your suggestion could certainly have been the real intent (to eventually get us onto single payer), but I have never heard that stated publicly. If so, then that would represent deceit on a massive scale.

        Even if it was the intent, the bottom line is that collectively (including federal tax subsidies), those who already have insurance are being asked to pay more, not less. This is not what was touted. And if by an employer dropping coverage and making employees to go it alone and get taxpayer subsidies, that would then represent spending more money in total and the federal government spending money that it does not have. Again, deceit on a massive scale in order to get a program approved and funded, which would never have happened if we had been leveled with from the beginning.

        Perhaps it is time to appoint a special prosecutor and really get to the bottom of this. And if it leads to a level of misinformation that raises the possibility of impeachment, so be it.

        • Don_B1

          It has always been the case that those with insurance have paid higher premiums to cover the hospital costs of those without insurance.

          The Federal Government has also been contributing to this “hidden” coverage of the uninsured through Medicare payments to hospitals.

          The PPACA is the first step in making the costs for all of healthcare more transparent and, by providing insurance coverage for 30 or more million uninsured, reduce the total cost of healthcare by making treatment available sooner to those who previously avoided getting care until the medical problem had worsened and its treatment was more expensive.

          Further changes will be necessary to provide different models of healthcare delivery to further reduce the costs, but new data,, which the PPACA has provisions to collect, will be required to show what works.

          • Fiscally_Responsible

            Unfortunately, the program was sold to the American public based on statements that “your premium would go down by $2500″ and “if you like your health care plan, you can keep your health plan”. The administration made the promises. Now they have to own up to them and be held accountable for misleading the American public.

          • Ray in VT

            And your talk of Watergate style coverup and impeachment talk is your idea of accountability?

          • Don_B1

            And those kinds of reductions are being observed. Sally Kohn, a liberal blogger on Fox News until this week, found 50 plans for her, her partner and child on the New York exchange which were less than her current policy and picked one that saved some $5,000 over her previous policy in some four hours on the exchange website, compared to spending nearly a week evaluating the different offerings on various company websites where the comparisons were of apples and oranges.

            Her experience will not be unique when the HealthCare.gov website is fixed and is true for many even now.

    • Don_B1

      The Fox News “reporting” is mostly made-up crap, like that Hannity show you reference. The falsity of that show is provided here:

      http://www.salon.com/2013/10/18/inside_the_fox_news_lie_machine_i_fact_checked_sean_hannity_on_obamacare/

      You should check the facts before you try to propagandize the world, but that is what Republicans do, spread false stories and fantasies.

      • Fiscally_Responsible

        Obama quote and video clip after clip after clip. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own set of facts.

        • Don_B1

          But what I showed is that what you refer to as “facts” are actually NOT facts, and it is not just my “opinion” !

    • TFRX

      You referenced Sean Hannity?

      Hahahaha.

      • HonestDebate1

        The operator that took his call was fired. That’s the way Obama rolls. Hannity gave her a years salary and found her a better job.

        • Ray in VT

          So Obama personally fired her. Are you sure that it wasn’t Valerie Jarrett?

          • Fiscally_Responsible

            The buck stops at the top. Except for this administration, where no one is ever held accountable and guitar chords sweetly strum “Kum-ba-ya”.

          • Ray in VT

            Got it. Everything that happens on Obama’s watch is his fault. I bet you held the previous Presidents to the same standard.

          • Fiscally_Responsible

            When your signature achievement that has such a large effect on our economy, people’s lives, and the cost of government turns out so terribly wrong, you need to be held responsible for the results. That’s called “leadership”.

          • Ray in VT

            I know, and it’s been 25 whole days. Things should be totally perfect by now. Rome was built in a day, after all.

          • Fiscally_Responsible

            It will get worse and worse as time unfolds as the true failures and shortcomings of the program emerge. Even if they can fix the website, they can’t fix the underlying failure of this program other than to scrap it and start over.

          • Ray in VT

            I know. We believe that it will fail, and 25 days in, things aren’t perfect, which proves to us that it will fail, so quick, after not being able to defeat it legislatively or via the courts, now we just have to shut the whole thing over and start from scratch. It’s the only logical thing to do.

          • Don_B1

            And what beyond raw ideological opinion makes you think that the PPACA will not be a big improvement over what existed before it?

            The benefits being enjoyed by many middle- and lower-income workers today and in hand for those who are signing up, unfortunately with too much difficulty but with improving access, Search for my post about the case of Sally Kohn and consider her example, where even with the extra time it took to sign up for the PPACA, she found it quicker than the first time she had sought out health insurance under the old system where she had to go from insurance company site to insurance company site, comparing policies that were constructed to make comparison difficult or n early impossible, where the cliché of comparing apples with oranges does not begin to convey the difficulty.

          • HonestDebate1

            It’s 3 years not 25 days.

          • Ray in VT

            The website got rolled out 3 years ago?

          • HonestDebate1

            Thing are typically done, tested and debugged before they are rolled out. They had 3 years.

          • Ray in VT

            Thing typically are. Thing also shouldn’t get scrapped because it doesn’t work exactly as planned 35 days in.

          • olderworker

            But “Romneycare”, which we have here in Massachusetts, was plenty “buggy” the first year. Now it’s reportedly running quite smoothly.

          • HonestDebate1

            Did he get your vote for President?

          • olderworker

            I voted for Obama; is that who you meant?

          • HonestDebate1

            Yes, and I don’t mean to be contentious but my opinion is there is no defense for this debacle. It’s way beyond “buggy”. In my view there is only the effort to justify the mistake that is the Obama Presidency.

          • Don_B1

            It absolutely is working fine, nothing is perfect, but this provides a fine way to determine the available choices, select from them and sign up.

            An even worse ‘roll-out” was that of Medicare Part D, but while Democrats had opposed the law as written because they favored a different approach, the Democrats gathered around and supported efforts to improve the roll-out and improve how it worked. There was no big crying out that the difficulties of the “roll-out” meant it should be scrapped.

            Democrats work to make government work for everyone, Republicans work to stymie government that helps middle- and lower-income people and support government that helps the wealthy.

          • TFRX

            Kumbaya?

            You gotta update your GOP cliches of Democrats.

          • HonestDebate1

            Who is Valerie Jarrett?

          • Ray in VT

            Someone you told me last year was carrying out Obama’s revenge or something.

      • Fiscally_Responsible

        Of course, you totally ignored the facts that I cited in my post and the facts and clips that he featured on his program and sunk to character assassination.

        • TFRX

          Hannity is eminently mockable as a source of “facts” and solid opinion.

          If you’re the proverbial angel who tells the truth about the proverbial devil who always lies, you really gotta stop being a sucker for Hannity.

  • Fiscally_Responsible

    In another story reported last night and buried in the back pages of my local newspaper, a story was reported that the House is trying to pass a bill barring teachers/other employees convicted of sexual offense crimes from being allowed to continue their employment with their school district. It was also reported how the teachers’ unions are fighting the bill. The teachers union would rather protect their deviant, criminal members than the children of our country. Again, Fox News was the only network to cover this story, since it speaks very negatively of the left wing special interests (unions) supported by the biased mainstream media.

    • John Cedar

      Is this law supposed to apply to terrorist Kathy Boudin too, or just sexual offenders?
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathy_Boudin

      Reagan showed us that the best way to do central planning from Washington is to withhold federal funding until they enact state laws dictated by Washington. Then our incompetent corrupt buffoons in the SCOTUS upheld this unconstitutional tactic.

    • TFRX

      Unions keep people from being fired because of accusations.

      Tell us when you figure that out.

      • fun bobby

        “convicted of sexual offense crimes ”
        tell us when you learn to read

        • TFRX

          Uh, let’s see: Trust you saying “I saw something on Fox News”, or anything else. I’ll take “anything else”.

          You have no source, no cite, and we’re supposed to trust your word farther than I can spit?

          • fun bobby

            once again your inability to read is tripping you up. maybe go back and sound out the words above the comments and if you work hard you can figure out the names are different

          • Fiscally_Responsible

            The source that I cited was an AP news story. And if we are really interested in protecting children, someone who has been accused of abusing children should be temporarily moved from the classroom/school until proven innocent. Someone who is guilty should never be allowed back.

  • John Cedar

    “You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glitch

  • Markus6

    I have a little bit of inside information on this web site mess. And though I’m pretty critical of government at all levels, this is not the fault of mid and lower level people. I include contractors in that. However, the naivete and incompetence of the policy makers who defined what this thing will do and when it will do it, is extraordinary. And, best I can tell, their lack of any real world experience in this is only matched by their confidence going in.

    This really seems to be a case where some idiot put highly confident, decisive people in charge who were way in over their head, but were too ignorant to know it.

    • Yar

      We need the field of information technology accounting. Including a certification process with specialties. Medicine, banking, law, all have systems of accountability. IT needs a standards and practices certification and evaluation process.

      • brettearle

        Excellent point.

        • 1Gandydancer

          Nah, Yar is a space cadet. See his comment above about being “positive for a year” instead of reacting with justified outrage (“hate” he calls it) to Obamacare. Or, in this case, what does “standards” for IT certification have to do with the Obama bureaucracy deciding -at the last moment- that the site would have to demand of shoppers, and evaluate, the answers to gobs of questions to try to qualify for subsidies before Healthcare.gov would allow them to see prices? The problem was that the IT pros’ bosses were clueless about the effect of their politically-inspired demands on the resources required.

          • Yar

            You think?
            Kentucky’s site allows you to see prices before you buy. I used to work for the cabinet for health services in Ky in IT.
            I was attempting to appeal to Ed’s better side.
            What is to be gained by being negative? It is a waste of energy. I hope you enjoy your rage, at the very least. Attitude is contagious.

          • fun bobby

            I have heard that in the cases where they give you “estimates” without putting your info in the actual price can be double when you really sign up

          • TFRX

            You “hear” a lot of things.

          • fun bobby

            I am a good listener

          • HonestDebate1

            I saw that too.

          • fun bobby

            bait and switch. its a classic. they do the same with car insurance

          • JGC

            I wonder if bait and switch was used for Florida Blue plan holders of Blue Options 522?

          • fun bobby

            does that refer to their hair color?

          • brettearle

            Doesn’t matter who’s a space cadet and who is not.

            There is no `Nah’ about it–whatsoever.

            Accountability in any system–complex or otherwise–is essential and should be mandatory.

            I–and I’m sure many others–have no idea what you’re talking about.

            You’re simply carping for the sake of carping.

            Save it for your public park soap box. Not for a responsible forum.

      • John Cedar

        Yeah, banking is working out great.
        and those medical error deaths too.

        When I was a little kid I used to dabble in programing. Built a few pieces of microprocessor based test equipment and wrote assembly language programs to run them. It was back in a time when you had to care about program size. It was in a time when Watchdog timers were not a foreign concept.

        I always always always had a written plan/design/flowchart. But the whole software industry is in the habit of just sitting dorky people at the keyboard and telling them to write code until it magically works most of the time. If you want the government to step in (and I don’t) they would be most effective if they simply followed the lead of the construction industry. Require “builders” to submit a plan/design before “building” anything.

        • Don_B1

          Tell us the names of all (or maybe just a few) software development programs that have “dorky people at the keyboard … writ[ing] code until it magically works most of the time.”

          Tell us one college/university where such an approach is taught. Note that there are enough programmers graduated from those schools (though by business’s claims not enough to meet all of industry’s needs) so that any big program has enough well-trained programmers that know that is a foolish approach to writing software.

          It could be that that might be your approach though.

      • MadMarkTheCodeWarrior

        We have the discipline of Integration, verification and test and a rare specialty called performance engineering. The first ends up any the end of the schedule, pressured to absorb all of the slip caused by design and development.

        • Don_B1

          In this case there was an additional hurdle, the government requirement (written in law) that large contracts be split across a lot of companies (52 in this case), which makes the integration of the individual companies’s products just that much harder.

    • Jasoturner

      “This really seems to be a case where some idiot put highly confident,
      decisive people in charge who were way in over their head, but were too
      ignorant to know it.”

      You have no idea how profoundly that resonates for me.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Any idea for the reasons of the massive cost overruns?

  • Ed75

    Even the mainstream media is reporting on the failure of the new healthcare system’s rollout. It promotes abortion, I hope it’s a complete disaster.
    Some people have had their insurance cancelled, and they can’t get to o-care, so they don’t have insurance at all for now.

    • HonestDebate1

      16 million people have had their current plans dropped. Maybe a dozen have signed up. It’s a disaster.

      • JGC

        To date, according to CMS communications director, Julie Bataille, the agency has processed 700,000 applications for health insurance coverage. I don’t know if that means only the federal exchanges, or if it includes the state-run exchanges as well.

        • fun bobby

          39,300,000 to go

        • HonestDebate1

          I don’t know what processed means. There is a long way to go to make up for the 16 million whose plans were dropped.

          • TFRX

            You “honestly don’t know” X, but assert “maybe a dozen have signed up”.

            You pulling numbers out of your hinders?

          • HonestDebate1

            Funny, I thought Hennon would be the only one obtuse enough to take the dozen number literally. I’m enjoying another one of his periodic honest debate boycotts.

            The key number to my comment was 16 million.

          • TFRX

            Ah, “joking on the square”: Enough poeple on the right say “nobody’s signed up” for you to feel like a Kewl Kid saying “a dozen have signed up”.
            Not in this place. Try Fox Nation if you want that schtick to be better received.

          • HonestDebate1

            Okay, maybe it was 20.

    • Yar

      Ed, tell me what you love, I don’t have time to read about hate. There is too much information out there to focus on hate. Try spending a year in the positive.

      • HonestDebate1

        I can’t speak for Ed but I love transparency and promises kept.

        • Fiscally_Responsible

          Accountability and honesty are desirable also!

      • fun bobby

        he loves all the little babies

      • Ed75

        I think hate is appropriate for sin, God hates sin, and God overcame it. But I’m never talking about individuals, the mercy of God is available at all times. But we as a country have made these things our public policy. Wow.
        So what I’ve been expressing is a lament.
        But you’re right, Pope Francis tells us to go out among the wounded and give hope, and we are part of that too.

    • J__o__h__n

      I haven’t heard anyone in the media mention it promoting abortion as one of its failures. Even the Pope says to give it a rest.

      • Ed75

        Well, it’s kind of like the Old Testament prophets, they described the coming disaster, but always ended with a vision of hope and restoration that would eventually also take place.

  • Coastghost

    The next name we have not heard of yet, courtesy of NPR and WBUR, at least (whose programming has not advertised this): Marilyn Tavenner, current Administrator of the Federal Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. SHE has been in charge during the Affordable Care Tax Act rollout.
    Her name will become topical next week, however, once she testifies alongside her supervisor, HHS Sec Sebelius. (Sebelius seemed all prominent and high profile, until the past few weeks rolled around, I’m almost willing to bet they’ll both present stunning testimony next week.)

    • fun bobby

      I was going to bet they would be resigned by next week

  • Coastghost

    Doesn’t the creepiness publicized with NSA practice(s) stick to Obama himself? How does the creepiness of security-and-surveillance state operations NOT stick tight and fast to Obama’s charismatic Presidency? Drones properly should, by most measures: Obama properly deserves credit for Snowden and continuing NSA fallout, too. (And the Germans loved Obama for his JFK impersonation, what a letdown.)

    • fun bobby

      don’t forget we got naked scanners installed on Obama’s watch. the choome gang must be so disappointed in him

  • Don_B1

    I didn’t get to list the consequences of the sequester from Jared Bernstein last week, so here are the last three (#27′s link uses the number 28 for some human error reason):

    http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/sequester-watch-28/

    http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/sequester-watch-26/

    http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/sequester-watch-25/

  • toc1234

    David Sanger, at what point will your newspaper hold Obama accountable for anything? in the last 12m we’ve have; fast n furious, Benghazi, irs scandal(s), Syria, obamacare and NSA. In no way does the NYT hold Obama accountable. Which is weird bc when a couple Army idiots put underwear on a couple prisoners’ heads in Iraq the NYT dropped the whole affair right on W’s head and put in on the front page for 32 straight days.
    why the press in general is allowing Obama to become the Tourist President (“ahh, I just heard about ______ (fill in blank w preferred fiasco) on tv, but I’m mad…. “) is beyond me.

  • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

    FTA:
    The White House today was forced to backtrack on a rumor Obama administration officials started about a Republican House leader who purportedly insulted President Obama to his face, telling the president, “I cannot even stand to look at you.”

    Turns out, it never happened. How do we know?

    bcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/10/white-house-bungles-leak-about-gop-leader-trashing-obama/

  • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

    FTA:

    “I’ve worked in this field for a long time,” says Brooking Institution expert Mike Doran in London’s Telegraph, “and I’ve studied the history. I know of no analogous period. I’ve never seen so many disagreements on so many key fronts all at once. And I’ve never seen such a willingness on the part of the Saudis to publicly express their frustration. Iran is the number one issue — the only issue for Saudi policy makers. When you add up the whole Middle Eastern map — Syria, Iraq, Iran — it looks to the Saudis as if the US is throwing Sunni allies under the bus by trying to cut a deal with Iran and its allies.”

    http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/blogs/michael-j-totten

  • toc1234

    nice of Tom to give moveon.org guy some space (would he do the same for some tea party type?? rhetorical question, of course…). btw – let’s see, former/(current?) progressive operative is now running ‘renewable energy’ company. I wonder how many gov’t ‘loans’ he got for his firm. and how long will it take for it to end up in the Solydra folder…

    • Coastghost

      The journalistic virtue is clear: 1) distracts from the lead story, which remains the abysmal Affordable Care Tax Act rollout, and 2) distracts from the NSA secrecy rollout that Obama himself is overseeing.

      • fun bobby

        Obama: “Verizon? yes I would like to sign up for your share everything plan

    • TFRX

      Don’t worry. If it is, Fox will pee its pants reporting it.

      • toc1234

        Sort of like Chrissy Matthews tinkling down his leg anytime Obama waves?

        • TFRX

          First: Chrissy?

          Wow. Classy stuff, bub.

          So, no, not at all like that.

          Is that’s the same Matthews who fainted at the manlymanness of Mitt’s shoulders and Fred (Fifth Place) Thompson’s imagined Aqua Velva and cigar smoke manly aroma?

          • HonestDebate1

            Is Chrissy a source you trust?

          • TFRX

            When I care about what you ask, I’ll answer it.

            Oh, and please keep referring to a man who goes by “Chris” as “Chrissy”. It looks soooo good on you.

          • HonestDebate1

            I have no respect for Chrissy.

      • HonestDebate1

        CNN and MSNBC should be ashamed.

    • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

      IF he was willing I can make myself available.

      matt@worcesterteaparty.com

    • hennorama

      toc1234 — so nice to see someone take up Senator Rafael Edward Cruz’s mantle, and post wild, evidence-free, speculation.

      Well done.

      • TFRX

        You forgot to call Cruz a toque-wearing hoser.

        Maybe Cruz’ ultimate goal is to replace the Houston Aeros with an NHL team.

        • hennorama

          TFRX – well, it certainly seems that we have a Cuban-Canadian plot to undermine the US government and economy, with Cuban-Canadian Cruz shutting down the government, and the Canadian company CGI Federal involved in the healthcare.gov website.

          Blame Canada.

  • alsordi

    More so lately, I’ve been turning off NPR.

    At one time I could catch an informative program on NPR, albeit slanted in the pseudo-liberal perspective, but lately, as I soon as I hear the words, “republican” and “democrat” I can no longer endure this “whose on first” skit, phony two party charade, any longer.

    I have better things to do with my time and there is much more informative venues streaming on the internet.

  • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

    FTA:

    The Cruz-led fight over the last few weeks has done the same thing for conservatives. Cruz strengthened the fight against Obamacare because he exposed the insider D.C. establishment in a way nobody else has. True, polls show that Americans have a lower opinion of the Republican Party after the fight. But many of those with a lower opinion are regular conservative Americans who saw the establishment members of the GOP turn and bolt in the face of the fight. Over two million signed a petition supporting Cruz. That’s a heck of an email list, generated almost overnight.

    Deal-making and compromise have pushed the country toward fiscal catastrophe. Only Cruz and his supporters stood fast, and Americans noticed.

    http://pjmedia.com/jchristianadams/2013/10/23/ted-cruz-won/?singlepage=true

  • JGC

    Drive, Saudi women, drive!

  • TFRX

    There’s just something funny about Darrell (“Hearing in the morning, hearings in the evening, hearings at suppertime”*) Issa accusing anybody of anything with a straight face.

    *His promise during the 2010 campaign.

    • hennorama

      TFRX — I think I may prefer your new moniker for Rep. Issa over my recent one — Rep. Darrell “no hat, no cattle, all hair dye” Issa, but it’s a close call.

  • MadMarkTheCodeWarrior

    The website debacle ultimately falls to the project management team. To accept or demand a last minute requirement change and not allow for schedule slip was insane!!! No one who knows what they are doing, turns on a new system and expects it to work the fine first time or for som time afterwords. Computer systems are not tinker toys that you can just plug together like a toy and yet I have sat in on meetings with VPs and directors all committed to one priority: meeting the schedule: all other risks combined did not out-way the disaster of late delivery! There is no shortage of stupid and reckless people in government, business and politics who treat the world like a game of Risk!

    • Fred_in_Newton_MA

      Totally agree. Also, having been on many software-intensive projects, you MUST NOT

  • Coastghost

    Tom Ashbrook: your continued use of “glitch” is your continuation of understatement. The incompetence attending the ACTA rollout is something a bit more than a “glitch”.
    And how and why has CMS Administrator Marilyn Tavenner managed to avoid media attention all these many weeks thus far? I’ve not heard NPR, WBUR, or “On Point” mention her by name.

  • AC
  • Fiscally_Responsible

    The liberals seem to be strangely silent this morning in terms of submitting posts in support of Obamacare’s implementation and cost structure for those who currently have insurance. Perhaps it is so bad that even they can’t defend it with a straight face. Perhaps, Obamacare will probably be revealed as more of a cover-up than Watergate. Perhaps the final outcome will be the same as well.

    “What did they know, and when did they know it?”

    • MrNutso

      I’m disappointed in the debut of the federal website, which is one component of the system. Many state websites are functioning better.

      As for costs, you have no basis for raising cost issues, because there is at best only anecdotal evidence that some individuals may pay more.

      Generally, since all we hear from you (collectively) is cover up, conspiracy, and scandale, it’s pointless to try and have a discussion. To conflate anything that has happened since Nixon as worse than Watergate is absurd. I watched the Watergate hearings and know the extent to which the Nixon tried to cover up the affair.

      • fun bobby

        you should check out some of the hearings where the DEA defends cannabis as a schedule 1 drug

        • Don_B1

          Just because the DEA cannot make its case does not in any way lower the towering criminality of the Nixon administration. The next biggest scandal was IranContra.

          If Robert Strauss had not gone to President Reagan and told him, in the Oval Office, that he was risking Impeachment if he did not deal with the scandal in a more honest way. Ronald Reagan threw him out of the office, but two days later he made his “apology” speech to the U.S.’s and the world’s public:

          http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/primary-resources/reagan-iran-contra/

          Note that President Reagan went THREE MONTHS without commenting on a much bigger disaster than the Obamacare rollout is likely to be.

          • fun bobby

            i am not talking about 40 years ago I am talking about last year

          • Don_B1

            Fiscally_Responsible mentioned Watergate and your post was in response to that, comparing that to the DEA’s position.

            Make your posts clear in the scope and what you intend them to mean; don’t blame a responder for not having clairvoyance into your mind.

    • Ray in VT

      Perhaps while they aren’t happy with the site’s rollout, they aren’t go to go all chicken little, like those people who have been rooting for it to fail all along.

  • alsordi

    Being one who is proud to admit and openly discuss the facts supporting that 9-11 was an inside job, I do not have enough supporting data to confirm the existence of FEMA camps for dissidents which are well known in conspiracy circles.

    But if these FEMA camps actually exist for so-called political dissidents and disgruntled veterans, I would say depending on the integrity and fortitude of the American populace, and if these camps do in fact exist, the worm may indeed turn and they would serve nicely to house the REAL conspiracy people, including complicit corrupt politicians, Iraq war media cheerleaders, Larry Silverstein et al, defense corporate exectives, and all others involved in killing 3,000 human beings, covering financial crime investigations, and dropping three buildings at free-fall speed.

    And if there is enough room in these camps, we could house plenty of these eves-dropping perverts at NSA, and drone jockeys who have killed many innocent people.

    • fun bobby

      there is probably room for all the media talking heads and NSA agents in there

  • OnPointComments

    “We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it … “

    Editorial: Now Democrats know what’s in Obamacare
    Obamacare is faltering under its own bureaucratic weight
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-obamacare-1025-jm-20131025,0,3836534.story

    “Massive computer problems are preventing people from signing up for coverage in the new online marketplaces. Worse, many people who finally manage to log in suffer sticker shock at high insurance premium or deductible prices.”

  • TFRX

    Tom, how many hours did NPR dedicate to the horrendous Republican rollout of Medicare Part D?

    I haven’t been counting this week-doing some reallife things. But I’m wondering if NPR isn’t just overplaying.

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/gop-medicare-part-d-obamacare

  • Coastghost

    “If it BECOMES a joke . . .” — risible understatement courtesy of the New York Times, thanks, Mr Sanger!!

  • StilllHere

    Here’s another insight into how the private and public sectors are different. If Sebelius had been in the private sector and so completely muffed a website launch, she would have fallen on her sword. But not in the public sector! She does a terrible job and says she doesn’t work for those criticizing her. BS. She works for the American taxpayer and she blew it. Where does the buck stop in this administration? Who is Obama/Sebeius going to make the scapegoat?

    Why do we have to see the entire Tweet feed? Too much distraction OP.

    • OnPointComments

      No one ever loses a government job, no matter how incompetent they are.

      • WorriedfortheCountry

        The Obamacare phone bank worker was fired for taking Sean Hannity’s call. Maybe she was a ‘contractor’.

      • hennorama

        OPC — reality check:

        Under Obama, public-sector employment has DECLINED from 22.583 M to 21.831M (P) .

        (P): preliminary (Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics)

        • TFRX

          Now Henno, I’m sure that the next True Principled Conservative president will slash gummint spending and employment just like the last one.

          Oh, wait…

          • hennorama

            TFRX — you mean like this?:

            During Bush II’s two terms there was a large expansion in public-sector employment, from 20.835 M to 22.583 M.

          • TFRX

            But it felt like there were fewer, and isn’t that the important part?

            The same way that herding protesters into cages (NYC GOP convention 2004) felt like freedom.

          • HonestDebate1

            And thus the Tea Party was born.

          • Ray in VT

            and I think that it looked a little something like this:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7xkg8lOabs

          • HonestDebate1

            The RINOs were another reason for the Tea Party.

          • Ray in VT

            And it was born from the Rhino’s backside

          • HonestDebate1

            That’s cute. It’s just too bad that the lockstep Democrats don’t have the courage of their convictions to call out massive spending in their party.

          • Ray in VT

            But they’re all supposed to be big spending libs, anyways. Where were all the true conservatives when Bush started blowing up the budget in 2001? It took a Democrat in the White House for the TOP to find a tax cut that they they didn’t like for goodness sake.

          • HonestDebate1

            Let me guess, the tax cuts that made the Clinton recession so shallow, put money in the pockets of the poorest, got us throughout the annihilation of the finical center of the universe on 9/11, produced record revenue that has yet to be matched, Made the rich pay a larger portion of the bill than ever before and took 6 million of the poorest off the tax rolls altogether is what you consider blowing up the budget. Am I right?

          • Don_B1

            You are profoundly wrong, as usual:

            The Clinton recession was “shallow” because the “dotcom bubble” did not in large measure take spending power away from consumers like the housing bubble that was cheered on by the Bush administration as the big banks over-leveraged themselves with derivatives based on near valueless mortgages as their clients sought high-return (speculative) vehicles for all that extra money that the Bush tax cuts had provided, so they did not create jobs as the Bush administration had promised.

            Consumers, encouraged by the Bush administration after 9/11 to “go out and shop” did so with the equity in their homes which led to their mortgages being “underwater” causing a severe drop in consumer spending, which was basically around 70% of the economy.

            When the economy is growing, revenue tends to grow also, even when it’s rate of growth is lowered by unjustified tax cuts. And the crash that resulted from the huge excesses of the wealthy because they were given the extra unearned money to do it, has kept the economy from recovering enough to provide the revenue levels with the additional large tax cuts provided as part of President Obama’s stimulus (ARRA) bill.

            The wealthy are only back to pre-2001 tax rates this year and since those tax cuts did not provide that much stimulus to the economy in the 2001-2007 period, it is highly unlikely that they will be that big a drag on the economy now that they are restored.

            Taking low-income workers off the income tax rolls puts money in the hands of people who need to spend it and will do much less speculation than the wealthy.

          • HonestDebate1

            I disagree. Bush tried to reign in Freddie and Fannie back in 2005. HE was not the cause for the housing bubble. And the tech bubble bursting followed by 9/11 was huge. It was not just a blip as the housing bubble should have been.

            The idea that the tax code can fix this is sophistry.

          • Don_B1

            Yes you can disagree, but your disagreement has as much basis in reality as claiming that Americans never landed on the Moon.

            President Bush did not just try to “reign in Freddie and Fannie back in 2005.” That is how he tried to sell provisions that would have put them out of business and left the housing mortgage market to the “loving arms” of the financial industry which was in the throes of taking control of it and using it to create derivatives that it was selling to pension funds, etc. J.P. Morgan Chase has just agreed to pay the Federal Housing Finance Administration, Freddie Mac, and Fannie Mae some $5.1 BILLION for deceptively selling them toxic mortgages in the 2000-2008 period.

            While 9/11 did close the stock exchange for several days and took a big bite out of some financial companies, it had a relatively small affect on the country compared to even the 2001 recession. Show me your numbers with sources!

            I did not say that changes to the tax code can totally fix this, but it can be an important step if it is done optimally or even near optimally, which will be difficult with the Republican opposition which you always endorse.

          • HonestDebate1
          • Don_B1

            Your link provides a nice list of events that just cover the spin wordings of the Bush administration and other Republicans as they introduced bills to “reform” the GSEs, already blaming them for the growing housing bubble and toxic mortgages being sold by private banks, not the GSEs. What most people would call cherry picking.

            But as always, “reform” is in the eye of the beholder. Your linked article says nothing about how that “reform” would be accomplished and what it would actually do.

            See:

            http://www.dpc.senate.gov/dpcdoc.cfm?doc_name=fs-110-2-171

            The list of actions presented is accompanied by linked sources (unlike your referenced article) which gives its story a strong, full basis in actual facts with justified interpretations. Thus it should not be treated as just a polemic as your reference can be.

            But go to the section headed in bold:

            Bush Administration repeatedly blocked Government Sponsored Enterprises (GSE) reform.

            There you will find a quote from Douglas Holtz-Eakin [a strong Republican supporter] that “They [the Bush Administration] quite frankly put it [GSE reform] on the back burner.”

            The Bush administration was real good at making political speeches and then not following up, on issues from Iraq to the economy.

          • HonestDebate1

            Alrighty then.

          • Ray in VT

            No.

          • HonestDebate1

            Cool, maybe there’s hope for you.

          • Don_B1

            That growth in the size of government was what provided the stimulus to keep the unemployment rate from increasing greatly during those terms. What it could not do, largely due to the structure of the Bush tax cuts was grow wages during that period.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          Are those Federal numbers? I believe that is the ‘context’.

          • hennorama

            WftC – they are from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS).

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Sigh!!! Are these Federal employees or all public sector including state/local?

            You already stated your source.

          • hennorama

            WftC — Thank you for the clarification. Given the history of the claims and criticism surrounding “Federal numbers” in the past, I simply repeated the source.

            The figures given were for ALL public sector civilian employment. The numbers for Federal employees alone show similar trends: UP under Bush II, and DOWN under Obama. Federal employment is lower now that when Bush II came into office.

            Series Id: CES9091000001
            Seasonally Adjusted
            Super Sector: Government
            Industry: Federal
            NAICS Code: -
            Data Type: ALL EMPLOYEES, THOUSANDS

            January 2001: 2753.0
            January 2009: 2789.0

            January 2009: 2789.0
            September 2013: 2723.0(P)

            (P) Preliminary

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Thanks.

            Personally, I find plotting the numbers much more illuminating.

            As seen here:

            http://www.aei-ideas.org/2012/09/has-government-employment-really-increased-under-obama/

          • hennorama

            WftC — those charts are a year out of date, but still illustrate my point.

            And of course, conspiracy theorists would enjoy “plotting.” :-)

        • OnPointComments

          How many people were fired when:
          – SEC employees were looking at p o r n for 8 hours a day;
          – A T F was gun running;
          – there were fraud and bribes at the E P A;
          – someone decided that security wasn’t needed in B e n g h a z i;
          – conservative groups were targeted by the I R S;
          – hundreds of millions were spent on a dysfunctional website;
          – journalists’ phone records were seized

          • OnPointComments

            The reason for the spaces is that I was trying to figure out what Disqus didn’t like about the comment. It’s either p o r n, A T F, E P A, B e n g h a z i, or I R S; my bet is on B e n g h a z i .

  • OnPointComments

    Why should anyone be surprised that the Obamacare website doesn’t work correctly? Has there been anything else about Obamacare that turned out like we were told it would?

    President Obama: “If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period. NO ONE WILL TAKE IT AWAY. NO MATTER WHAT.”

    Weekly Standard: 16 million people are now receiving letters from their carriers saying they are losing their current coverage and must re-enroll in order to avoid a break in coverage and comply with the new health law’s benefit mandates.

    CBO: CBO has estimated that the number of people dislodged from their pre-Obamacare arrangements could reach 20 million, while other independent analyses have concluded that the eventual figure may be significantly higher.

    President Obama: “We will start by reducing premiums by as much as $2,500 per family.”
    President Obama: “Not only are premiums lower than they were, they’re lower than the most optimistic predictions.”
    Nancy Pelosi: “Everybody will have lower rates.”

    Double Down: Obamacare Will Increase Avg. Individual-Market Insurance Premiums By 99% For Men, 62% For Women
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/09/25/double-down-obamacare-will-increase-avg-individual-market-insurance-premiums-by-99-for-men-62-for-women/?partner=yahootix

    • Don_B1

      How much are you betting that the numbers you cite will be anywhere near correct rather than, as is more likely, be at least a factor of 10 lower?

      I don’t bet period, but on such issues I wouldn’t because there is no one that both of us could agree on to decide who won. You would continue to claim the equivalent of “2 + 2 = 5″ until the earth freezes over, or as will actually happen, the earth heats up enough to make life untenable for humans.

  • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

    Get ready for another shutdown…

    FTA:
    Reid rebuked the Nevada Public Radio host when he was asked what Republicans would have to concede to get Medicare and Social Security cuts on the table.

    “You keep talking about Medicare and Social Security. Get something else in your brain. Stop talking about that. That is not going to happen this time. There is not going to be a grand bargain,” Reid said. “What we need to do is have Murray and her counterpart in the House, Ryan, work together to come up with something to get out of this senseless sequestration and start the budgeting process so that we can do normal appropriation bills.”

    http://blogs.rollcall.com/wgdb/reid-theres-not-going-to-be-a-grand-bargain/

    • fun bobby

      I have heard of something called a budget, maybe congress could make one. it might help

      • MrNutso

        Still waiting for the House to name a Conference to work out details of the Senate budget.

        • fun bobby

          my theory is that so much spending is “secret” they can never make a budget

      • Don_B1

        Do tell your Republican Tea Party members of Congress to stop blocking Conference Committees which would actually do what is necessary to resolve the differences between the bills passed in both chambers.

        And then tell your Republican Senators to stop threatening a filibuster of every budget bill so that, as in May 2013, the Senate can pass another budget bill for the next year.

        • fun bobby

          but I haven’t got any of either unless markey has flip flopped more than usual upon joining the senate

    • StilllHere

      Democrat = party of no

      • Don_B1

        You mean you think they might finally have caught on to the Republican game and are echoing it?

  • Fiscally_Responsible

    Actually, regarding Sebellius’s comment that no one was fired over Obamacare, Hannity had a customer service representative in Florida who was fired for politely and efficiently answering questions regarding signing up for Obamacare that Hannity asked her during a radio broadcast of his program. Apparently, being competent and courteous is the only grounds for being fired with this administration. Fortunately, Hannity has been working with employers in the area and has obtained this person a number of other jobs. It will be their gain, and Florida’s loss.

    • OnPointComments

      No one is ever fired in government for incompetence, however a person will be fired quickly for not toeing the party line.

  • Ed75

    It was put out without real testing – that’s funny.

    • http://profiles.google.com/barry.kort Barry Kort

      Most new legislation is put out without testing. Alan Simpson notably looked back on his career in Washington and spoke candidly of the Law of Unintended Consequences, as one piece of legislation after another failed to achieve its vaunted objectives.

    • HonestDebate1

      The bill was passed without reading it. Why would they test it?

  • Coastghost

    “On Point” translation service: Jack Beatty’s “lack of communication” = Obama’s “lack of oversight, lack of administration, lack of management”.

  • MrNutso

    Right on caller. When T-Mobile can get their web site to work all the time, I’ll start piling on Healthcare.gov.

    • OnPointComments

      I bet T-Mobile didn’t spend hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars on its website.

    • fun bobby

      get a real carrier. were they all sold out of boost mobile phones?

      • StilllHere

        he’s a cricket guy i’m sure

        • fun bobby

          my next phone is going to be a jitterbug. I bet the nsa does not even bother with those

          • StilllHere

            Just a bunch of people complaining about the portions at Denny’s and how their metal hip is predicting rain.

          • fun bobby

            that’s true about the rain.

  • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

    The F35 cannot even fly in the rain! And it is many years late, and Billions and Billions over budget. It will cost $1.5 TRILLION at least, and there is no guarantee it will *ever* work…

    • fun bobby

      and nothing for them to dog fight. have the Russians developed any new MIGs?

  • toc1234

    Obama and his handlers will be nostalgic for the ‘glitch’ fiasco once the stats come out next month showing no young healthy people signing up. and then there’s the horror stories to come about people losing their healthcare despite Obama’s sales pitch….
    soon the WH will be leaking their own glitch stories…

  • MrNutso

    Bomb throwing time. How many people were fired when we found there were no WMD’s in Iraq, thus negating the arguments for invading?

    • http://profiles.google.com/barry.kort Barry Kort

      And who was blamed for passing the Unaffordable War Act?

      • TFRX

        Not me. I was simply being Treasonous, at the time.

  • TFRX

    Medicare Part D rolled out harsh, nobody resigned, and was made to later run fine.

    Is this one of those IOKIYAR things?

    http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/24/2828261/hearing-post/

    • MrNutso

      Because a Republican was in the White House. Republican SNAFU’s are part of governing, Democratic SNAFU’s are incompetence.

    • hennorama

      TFRX — two wrongs don’t make a right.

      Point taken otherwise. The beta test-free website is a serious issue, but it will be fixed.

      • TFRX

        Oh, certainly.

        But when it comes to everything except the mediascape, the people deciding inside the Beltway who is and isn’t news, sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

      • Don_B1

        The thing to take from revisiting the rollout of the Medicare Part D program is the difference in response by the opposition parties.

        The Democrats put demagoguery aside and worked to make the Part D program work, while the Republicans are moaning over the problems of implementing a program that would not exist if they had their way and are trying to use the “visuals” of the rollout to ensure it will not exist.

    • HonestDebate1

      It came in under budget. When was the last time that happened?

      • Don_B1

        Since you have tried to make this point in the past, I assume you are referring to the costs of the Medicare Part D program, not implementing its website.

        But it has been shown that the reason that Medicare Part D costs less than it was expected to is because fewer seniors signed up for it than expected. That means that, for whatever reason, many seniors are not getting the benefit that they were expected to, not that the program is overachieving on its goal.

        • HonestDebate1

          Seniors love it. The reason it came in under budget was because of the free market aspects. If you have contrary information then present it.

  • OnPointComments

    Should we expect the website to work because President Obama said it would work?

    Bill Clinton to President Obama: “What are you gonna do on October 1st? Tell ‘em how this has gotta work.”
    President Obama: Purchasing health care will be just like buying “an airline ticket or a flat-screen TV.”

    • OnPointComments

      As Jay Leno said, ‘the government has advised that people can opt to send in the insurance application paperwork via the US Mail if they want faster service.’ Only the government can create a website that’s slower than the US Mail.

  • Rick Evans

    Are the callers who are trivializing the HealthCare.gov website problems totally clueless??? The feds are holding an IRS enforced gun to the heads of uninsured Americans to GET INTO THE POOL OR ELSE. Meanwhile the door to the pool is locked or broken and a bunch of locksmiths are brought in to simultaneously try to fix the lock. No one holds a gun to your head and forces you to buy something from a shopping website as suggested by caller Sarah.

    • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

      I believe the term is “astroturf” when a politician gets seemingly average people to offer social validation to their policy.

    • hennorama

      Quoting the VP: What a bunch of malarkey!

      No one is forcing anyone to buy anything. A partial list of free choices regarding the PPACA:

      - Do nothing.
      - Find a job with employer-sponsored health insurance benefits.
      - Reduce your income to the point where you are not required to file a tax return.
      - Self-deport.

      • fun bobby

        if you do nothing you have to pay a fine

        • hennorama

          fun bobby — not true.

          To being with, some are exempt from the “individual mandate” in the PPACA.

          Next, some who are not exempt are not required to file a tax return, and therefore no “fine” is imposed.

          Finally, even for those who are assessed a “fine,” there are simple means to avoid actually paying it.

          Sorry for your misunderstanding.

          • fun bobby

            that there are loopholes does not mean the fine does not exist, that’s nonsense, what is the simple means to avoid it?

      • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

        You really aren’t seriously arguing that fines imposed by the IRS are not compulsion?
        You can’t be seriously stating that someone should quit their job to get health insurance?
        It may just be an attempt at dark humor but a trully tasteless one.

        • hennorama

          RWB – thank you for you response, and your question?

          The list is valid, is it not? All those free choices are available.

          As as with all laws, one can freely choose to ignore, disobey, or comply with the PPACA. If you believe that a potential fee/penalty/tax is “compulsion,” you are free to enjoy such a belief. If your standard for “compulsion” is a potential penalty for non-compliance, then you must think that virtually all laws are compulsory.

          Here’s a real world example. There are vehicle speed limits in all states. You can choose to obey them or not, but no one is forcing you to do so. Same thing with auto insurance, vehicle registration, etc. Most will obey the laws, but some will not. If they get caught not obeying the law, there are potential penalties.

          It’s the same with the PPACA. Most people will obey the law.

          However, some will not. Some people will refuse to comply for philosophical reasons, will not purchase insurance, and won’t pay the associated fee/penalty/tax. Some will freely weigh the economic choices, and will not purchase health insurance and willingly pay the associated fee/penalty/tax. Some will do nothing, whether out of ignorance or inertia or something else.

          All of which are free choices.

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            “I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.”

            ― Robert A. Heinlein

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            compulsion: the act of using force or pressure to make someone do something.

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            “Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.”
            - George Washington

          • Potter

            context….? The government is ( was then) a collective of representatives of the people- ostensibly for the good of the people… you know, the general welfare.

          • Ray in VT

            The first reference to that “quote” appears to be from 1902, and there does not appear to be any earlier evidence linking those words to our first president:

            http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Washington

            http://www.redstate.com/barrypopik/2009/11/12/dubious-origins-of-a-george-washington-quote-on-government/

            http://politicalirony.com/2011/06/08/misquoting-the-founding-fathers/

            I’m not surprised to see, though, that Glenn Beck and Louis Gohmert both used it.

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            This is illustrative of the exact problem our nation is facing. We disagree not only on policies but on the meaning of the words we use to discuss policies.

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            The list is not valid.
            All those choices are not freely available.

            I had though such disingenuous arguments were beneath you.

          • hennorama

            RWB — thank you for your response.

            Please point out how the listed items are invalid or not freely available.

      • HonestDebate1

        If you don’t buy health insurance you will be fined. If you don’t pay the fine you will ultimately be arrested. If you resist then it will come at the point of a gun. Mr. Evans is correct.

        • fun bobby

          they came for the uninsured….

        • Don_B1

          The PPACA specifically prohibits the I.R.S. from going after the fine, especially if you do not have a refund coming that covers it.

  • fun bobby

    I just watched an ad that the state of MA apparently bought from NYC to demonstrate the dangers of sugar. is that devils next crusade. I don’t drink much soda so if that distracts him from thinking up bizarre new gun control schemes maybe its for the best

    • Don_B1

      Education of the masses on dangers in one’s diet is a “control scheme” now?

      • fun bobby

        they bought the ad from Bloomberg who banned soda in his realm is there any reason to believe devil would not think a soda ban is a good idea as well. I don’t need my tax dollars to be spent to tell people soda has sugar. it says it has sugar and exactly how much right on the label. that being said, if it keeps devil busy and from further abusing gun owners I am all for it.

  • MrNutso

    Spying: Just like many European Nations failure to challenge the invasion of Iraq, so to do they take no extreme measures to punish the US for spying. As long as we can just keep doing what we want on the world stage, and just say we’re sorry if we get caught, we’ll keep doing it.

  • OnPointComments

    Isn’t it ironic that when Republicans suggested delaying the individual mandate, it was called extortion and blackmail; now the President might delay the law’s individual mandate with one of his royal edicts.

    • fun bobby

      thank god for the largesse of dearest leader

      • StilllHere

        benevolent one shall smile upon you this day

    • MrNutso

      Yes. Republicans had the best interests of consumers in mind and wanted to delay the mandate to make sure that when people had to sign up they would not experience any problems.

      The President on the other hand wants to mess with people. Now that they can sign up and get insurance coverage that they were either not eligible for or could not afford he’s going to take it away.

  • toc1234

    gotta love Jack, with Obama’s eff-ups its faulty tech… with W it was him being a cowboy saying its ‘his way or the highway…’

    • Don_B1

      Context makes Jack correct in both instances.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Sanger(NYT): “This administration prides itself on execution”

    Really? You’ve got to be kidding. Sanger mustn’t be a very curious reporter to parrot campaign style rhetoric.

    • StilllHere

      Execution by drone!

      • hennorama

        Credit where due: that’s funny right there.

  • Coastghost

    Germans who remember vividly Obama’s JFK-style address to the German public early in his first term will now vividly think of how untrustworthy Obama is. Similar to the enthusiasm Egyptians have for Obama today, years after his address at Cairo University: a big speech preceding a big letdown, leaving ostensible allies with a keen sense of betrayal.

  • OnPointComments

    I’ve heard and read statements from health insurance executives who say that if the Obamacare individual mandate is delayed, it is likely that the pool of people who enroll will be skewed toward the sick and the elderly, and the premiums won’t be able to support the system. They believe that if there isn’t a mandate and a penalty, young healthy people will opt out until health insurance is required. If the health insurance executives suppositions are correct, it certainly debunks the claim that the young healthy people were yearning for coverage.

    • MrNutso

      I never heard a claim that young people were yearning for coverage even though they should have it. For any kind of insurance system to work, those unlikely to need insurance still must have it to balance the system.

  • Government_Banking_Serf

    Wow. The irony today of these Friday inside-the-beltway Democrat apologists essentially laying out all the ways the government is either inept or frightfully too powerful, just a step away from putting 1 and 1 together, is astounding.

    • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

      They are very comfortable in their bubble.

      • Ray in VT

        Like the one that allows people to think that young people will just be streaming to the Tea Party because they’re disappointed in Obama?

        • fun bobby

          I feel like young people have better things to do than hang out in VFW halls at tea party meetings or spend a week trying to sign up for obamacare

          • TFRX

            Wow, nice false equivalency there.

            Please tell us if young people love the carefree life of not having health insurance, too.

          • fun bobby

            its all fun and games until you get the clap

          • Ray in VT

            He’s got the clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, slap. He’s got the clap.

          • JGC

            Rest easy: Obamacare offers FREE preventive services such as sexually transmitted infection (STI) counseling, available through the exchange or your private insurer. NO co-payment, NO coinsurance, even if you haven’t met your yearly deductible! (must be delivered by a network provider)

          • fun bobby

            if you like Obamacare so much move to america

          • Ray in VT

            True. A lot of the ones that I know will be working most of the weekend.

        • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

          New members are always welcome. Our next meeting is Nov 4th at the Canal 65 Water Street Worcester MA

          http://www.yelp.com/biz/canal-bar-and-grill-worcester-2

  • JGC

    I’m looking through the TV listings for “Monkey Court”. Anyone know which cable channel carries it?

    • MrNutso

      All the C-Span channels.

      • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

        Even c-Span 3???

    • StilllHere

      It’s a radio show, you’re listening to it.

      • Ray in VT

        I thought that Tom sounded a bit strange this morning. Turns out I had Rush on. Thanks for the heads up.

        • fun bobby

          rush is not on for until the afternoon. if it sounds like Yukon Cornelius then that is rush

          • Ray in VT

            Must be a rerun. Something about how the NFL’s support of breast cancer awareness is destroying masculinity or something.

          • fun bobby

            if you need some cranky old man banter head down to dennys or the old folks home

          • TFRX

            All the NFL is doing is selling a lot of things in an unappealing shade of pink. I mean, if you can’t make pink look good on the black and silver of the Raiders (to pick one chromatically compatible team), it’s time to get another pink from the box o’ Crayolas.

    • HonestDebate1

      I thought the testimony was damning and Pallone looked like a jerk. That’s just me.

  • toc1234

    Obviously Obama and his handlers must travel to Cairo and give another ‘citizens of the world’ speech. That should do it. oh wait, Egypt, has totally imploded while he’s been office (with him just kinda watching it unfold on tv…).

    • StilllHere

      He doesn’t get that channel.

      • toc1234

        oh, but Al Gore sold his failure of a progressive tv station to Al jeeezara… I’m sure the WH was the first to subscribe to the station…

    • fun bobby

      I think he was cheering it on. they were all about the arab spring

  • Cindy C Barnard

    Why is it surprising that those who need healthcare most and don’t have it are the first to sign up!? The media sensation over this trend is overblown.

    Yes, the registration system should be working — and if it’s working by
    phone, or in-person, then that’s more than good enough for now while they fix technical glitches
    for online registration.

    The problem is more about the need for healthcare reform, finally getting it, and no less based on a Republican lead plan.

    Then republicans deciding it would be too much of an achievement for a democratic administration.

    It has been an uphill battle w the conservatives shouting that “all” Americans are against it, when they are not – why would Obama get elected twice running on healthcare reform at the top of his agenda – that is what republicans can’t accept.

    • William

      What about reports of 300,000 people getting the boot off their medical insurance in FL, another 250,000 getting the boot in CA? Don’t those people matter?

      • OnPointComments

        CBO has estimated that the number of people dislodged from their pre-Obamacare arrangements could reach 20 million, while other independent analyses have concluded that the eventual figure may be significantly higher.

        • William

          There are few things in life today that really scare people…losing medical insurance is one of the biggest fears people have and now it is hitting millions.

      • Cindy C Barnard

        Agreed there. We will see as the reality of these reports roll out. Good, affordable insurance (and either way it is from private industry) is what matters whether from the employer or by an exchange.

        The other side of this coin is the responsibility of the employer to the worker. And how often do larger companies look after their employees as they should?

        • TFRX

          Many employers’ insurance will not be able to compete with the exchange policies. WOrkers won’t be tied to their crap job at the risk of not getting insurance at the next job.

          But all you will hear from some people is “some employers aren’t giving( sic) insurance away to employees any more”.

        • William

          The people in Florida are mostly individuals and not covered in employer plans and the reason for getting the boot is their current policy does not meet the new government standards. People are getting taxed because they have “Cadillac plans” but now the government is forcing people to buy more coverage than they need or want.

      • MrNutso

        The question is moving from an existing plan to a new plan a benefit? I know it’s an inconvenience, since I have had to do it myself on a company plan.

        Unfortunately I suspect that saying you can keep your currently plan was painted with too broad a brush, since it’s unlikely anyone knew how new plans would differ from existing plans.

        • TFRX

          Everyone, even before this year, had to play health-care roulette each October, even if they’re in the same job forever.

          The typical worker got to wonder which company was going to be picked by their HR department, and how much worse the coverage and copays would be.

          Funny how that fact gets disappeared from wingnuts.

        • William

          Can you imagine a woman with cancer getting a cancel notice? A mother expecting children? This is amazing how this is allowed to happen with little concern from the MSM. If this was happening to illegals we would receive non-stop coverage but since it is happening to everyday Americans…tough luck…

  • StilllHere

    It’s a Democrat-apologist free-for-all today. Pitiful.

    • fun bobby

      see below

      • StilllHere

        see above, just wait

  • Government_Banking_Serf

    Obamacare supporters justifying the Obamacare failures as the inability of Government to manage effectively. We are truly doomed, as an incredible era of Big Brother and Orwellian coercion of the willfully ignorant masses is blossoming.

    Priceless.

    • brettearle

      Your feeling is that anything’s better than this?

      Do you actually believe–I mean actually believe–that any such complex program–fraught with a myriad of indices, infected with inevitable bugs, plagued with bitter political controversy, and gouged with radical change for private citizens–would actually run, in a streamlined fashion, in the beginning?

      The ACA is one of the most revolutionary ideas to be implemented in American society, EVER.

      Indeed, if the first few months would be going uncommonly well and smoothly, then I might, in fact, become very very suspicious that something was, ironically, remiss with the ultimate credibility and effectiveness of the system.

      • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

        “The ACA is one of the most revolutionary ideas to be implemented in American society, EVER.”

        LoL please tell me you are being ironic.

        • brettearle

          When I say ‘revolutionary’, I didn’t necessarily refer to ultimate success or failure.

          That’s the way you took it.

          I was referring to the degree of change and transformation that would be required for society and for citizens; and for the administrative and political system, themselves.

      • WorriedfortheCountry

        Central planning intersecting with incompetence and politics — and on 18% of the economy no less.
        What could possibly go wrong?

        Couldn’t they have started small? The fist NASA mission wasn’t man landing on the moon.

        Better yet, this is a perfect time to practice federalism. There is always better accountability at the local level.

        • TFRX

          Accountability?

          In practice, all that gives us is a bunch of red states saying “You need to carry that rapist’s baby to term because the fake Christians who run things round here don’t like contraception, emergency contraception, or abortion”.

          So yeah, more True Principled Conservative small governemnt. That’s what the female half of this country’s populace deserves.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            So now the central planning scheme is some sort of social justice program in your mind? Or you were just being intentionally non-responsive.

            The locals vote for the government they want. That level of accountability is certainly better than accountability at the Federal level.

          • TFRX

            Bullspit.

            When the spit hits the fan , your fancy Randian fantasy becomes red state after red state saying women can’t have contraception, emergency contraception, and abortion.

            The screwed up fake Christianing putting that crap into place is the social “justice”.

            And please don’t bother with “they can always move to a state where they’re treated like more of a human being”.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            There is no evidence that anyone is denied contraception or abortions for that matter. Talk about conspiracy theories.

            And the purpose of the ACA is now to enable contraception and abortion in red states (where last I checked it already exists)? I never heard that as the motivation when they tried to pass the bill. It was about bending the cost curve down and insuring more folks.

          • Ray in VT

            How are those new abortion laws working out in places like Texas, Virginia and the rest? I’m sure that those measures are not at all going to affect access. I keep getting told that no one is trying to get rid of or limit abortion, but news from the state level really begs to differ.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            I honestly don’t no but I did read up a bit on the Texas law and they were imposing minimum medical standards for abortion clinics. After Gosnell that seems wise for the woman’s safety.

          • Ray in VT

            Minimum standards deemed unnecessary by the medical community, but that would result in shutting down many facilities. Plus there’s measures like requiring doctors to have admitting privileges to hospitals, and then having hospitals refusing to do so. There’s also unnecessary and invasive ultrasounds, and the moves to restrict the time period further and further. No matter whether one is for or against it, the fact is that in many places the access to abortion services is under pretty heavy attack here in the U.S.

          • TFRX

            Bullsh]t.

            Those laws are specific to harass womens’ clinics out of business, and none of them would have kept Gosnell from happening.

            Gosnells’ situation is what occurs when the fake Christians make women desparate for real health care services. Don’t let that fact dissuade you, hack.

          • TFRX

            Hilarious. Another white guy in a blue state telling us how easy women have this fantasy equality in a red state.

          • HonestDebate1

            Having to pay for your own rubber is not being denied contraception.

          • TFRX

            Bullsht. Quit while you’re behind.

            And please talk to women about how mucbh they want to depend on a man having condoms or making them wear them.

            Especially when a woman is getting raped.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Even if what you say is true — is spending $2.6T the remedy?

          • HonestDebate1

            Bizzarre.

      • HonestDebate1

        You have just nailed the dynamic. We have Obamacare because many were convinced, anything is better than this.

      • Government_Banking_Serf

        Competition, pricing and freedom of information, along with a Safety net for the truly needy.

        People paying doctors for primary care and broken bones etc, and having insurance for catastrophic, would keep primary care costs much lower, and quality and access higher.

  • MrNutso

    The President should know what’s going on. This is also endemic of US governing since we began spying and interfering in other nations affairs since the end of WW II. All administrations and Congress collectively are to blame.

    • Ray in VT

      It sort of surprises me that people would be surprised by this, given that nations, including ours, have a pretty long history of spying on other nations, including their allies.

      • TFRX

        I think my “sniff test” of people who worried about the spying a decade ago would reveal the left-wing sorts (where is NJ-V2 today?) honestly, and millions upon millions on the right ret-conning their latent Libertarianism.

        • Ray in VT

          It is interesting how coalitions can form on the left and right on certain issues, and this seems to be one of them. Some of the more libertarian members of Congress and some of the more liberal members seem to really get along on this. My professional organization is doing some work on this front, and it has been against measures like the PATRIOT Act from the beginning due to concerns regarding privacy and domestic surveillance.

          • TFRX

            But have you found Libetarians trust the same gathering of information from John Q. Webuser at the hands of Google, simply because the gatherers are private entities? Or do they simply say, in honest conversation, that it’s “every man for himself” and “go off the grid” when it comes to keeping that stuff to yourself?

          • Ray in VT

            It is rather amusing how much information people voluntarily provide on the web these days.

          • Government_Banking_Serf

            So irrelevant, when for better or worse, you agree to terms of service when you choose to use.

            Funny, when you would likely enjoy having the Government run Google. Then the supreme court can uphold that we must use Google, at least 3 times daily.

          • TFRX

            Please, say more crap about how those EULAs are written so people can read them and understand them.

            This ain’t Galt’s Gulch. This ain’t your fantasy world.

          • HonestDebate1

            They aren’t that tough to understand and you don’t have to agree to the terms.

          • TFRX

            They are tough to understand. They’re not written to be undertsood.

            Please, no more crap from you about “I read all of mine so everyone can everywhere”.

          • HonestDebate1

            Yea I know, reading is hard.

          • Ray in VT

            Yet some struggle with the plain language of the dictionary….

          • HonestDebate1

            Yes you do.

          • Ray in VT

            I can read it just fine. I don’t need to lie about the only supposed definition of to lie. Can you please share your hilarious only definition again? I need a laugh on a rainy day life this.

          • HonestDebate1

            Not until you tell me the difference between a lie and being wrong that does not include intent. You can’t, you haven’t and you won’t. You just look silly clinging to the notion that you can lie without knowing you are lying. It’s stupid.

          • Ray in VT

            I have, you just refuse to accept it. Stupid is adding words and meaning to the clear definitions provided by dictionaries in order to attempt to make those definitions fit one’s own opinions and beliefs. I find no reason to let it go as long as someone insists upon blatantly lying to my virtual face and then self-righteously defending that lie, despite evidence to the contrary. It doesn’t surprise me, though.

          • HonestDebate1

            You have not because you can’t. Quit lying, it’s stupid. I added no words ever. I changed nothing.

          • Ray in VT

            I have and did. Where have I lied? I have merely cited the clear language of the dictionaries, which you are apparently unable to do. I agree, though, that is stupid. I wonder why you continue to do so?

          • HonestDebate1

            You are lying by saying I added words. I know what you are referring to, it is the 2nd Merriam definition:

            1 : to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive
            2 : to create a false or misleading impression
            transitive verb: to bring about by telling lies

            Just because you can’t understand plain english doesn’t mean I added words. Name the word smarty pants! It doesn’t exist. You are the one changing words.

            You are also lying when you say you have ever explained the difference between a lie and being wrong without intent being the difference. You never have, you can’t and you won’t. Never ever ever and it’s a blatant lie to keep saying you already have so don’t need to repeat yourself. I hardly think you would pass on the golden opportunity to put me in my place but you do… over and over again. It can’t be done. I think I even offered to send $100 to the NAACP if you could cite the time you did but I may be confusing that with another one of your lies. But I renew the offer.

            You are lying when you say you “cited the clear language of the dictionaries, which you are apparently unable to do”. Actually it’s two lies. The first is the plural word dictionaries. No, you cited one and didn’t understand it. You cling to it. The other lie is your accusation about me. I am the one who cited about 10 dictionaries that were clear. I could not find a dictionary that did not cite intent. You can’t either. They ALL cite intent.

            I’m done with this, you can keep bringing it back up if you want. I’m embarrassed for you.

          • Ray in VT

            You have added implies to the dictionary differences that do not claim intent. In this way, apparently, you think that you can merely add a word to the dictionary, create an alternate definition to what is written there, and then think yourself an honest man, despite being a blatant liar who is either unwilling or unable to accept reality when it run counter to your worldview.

            If you with to see my previously cited definitions and reasoning, then please see here:

            http://onpoint.wbur.org/search?q=ray+in+vt+lie&sa.x=0&sa.y=0

            or

            http://onpoint.wbur.org/search?q=ray+in+vt+define&sa.x=0&sa.y=0

            It’s in there. It is just adorable that you think that because I cite the clear and plain language of the dictionary, as opposed to what you are doing, that I am a liar. That sort of tactic might fly with Rush or at Teabagger rallies, but such dishonest and intellectually bankrupt deceptions are sure to not go over well with anyone who has a clue. It’s sort of like claiming some sort of great difference in meaning between inalienable and unalienable. Totally ahistorical and unsupportable, regarding differences in meanings circa 1776, but I’m sure that you’ll stick by that particular bit of nonsense until the horses come home.

          • fun bobby

            yeah but how could we log in 3 times a day when it no longer works? maybe they will have google up in 30 days

  • Coastghost

    Barack Obama, Floating Apex.

  • http://profiles.google.com/barry.kort Barry Kort

    The “endemic failure of public administration” is an inevitable consequence of trying to manage a large complex system by means of an anachronistic method known as the Rule of Law.

    There are functional ways to manage large complex systems, based on concepts developed by 20th Century advances in STEM research.

    At some point, humankind will need to upgrade its management model to a 21st Century Operating System grounded in 20th Century breakthroughs in the theory and practice of systems management.

    • Government_Banking_Serf

      Finally! We can get back to Rule of Men, and put this Rule of Law nonsense behind us. We’ll pick “good” people and never look back. Pity we had to wait this long to fulfill the until now fanciful dream of Benevolent Dictatorship. Take the Obamacare good intentions, mix it with the NSA’s capabilities (heck they dumped rule of law a while back it seems) and we will have Utopia at last!

      • http://profiles.google.com/barry.kort Barry Kort

        Sad to say, most males are not smart enough to wrap their brains around advanced system models that can be solved for ethical best practices. That’s why women are the new superstars of technocratic methods found in the annals of operations research and cybernetic systems theory.

  • Government_Banking_Serf

    Remember the days when motivated kids had aspirations for becoming doctors, engineers, business owners etc, because an honest investment in ones future that provides key services for the society would be rewarded?

    Now we will have people wanting to be government bureaucrats, as that is where the money will be.

    USSA

    • TFRX

      Time to post the info about government workers being fewer during Obama’s term, even with the recession.

    • StilllHere

      It’s already there!

    • jimino

      You mean so they can play their role in a “captured” regulatory system before getting hired for 10 times as much by those who they were supposed to regulate? That’s the only way I know of for a bureaucrat to make real money.

  • SteveTheTeacher

    No doubt members of the Bush and Obama administrations and those in other branches of government who have taken leadership roles in mass Drone killings, Guantanamo, and the like feel entitled to act with impunity.

    I am reassured by Spanish Judge Baltasar Garzon who helped bring war crimes charges against former Chilean President Pinochet, and Guatemalan Judge Yasmin Barrios who helped bring former Guatemalan President Rios Montt to justice, that these US officials and former officials will eventually be brought to face charges for their crimes against humanity.

    No doubt the NSA targets those of us who push for such charges against US officials. Hope I get to see the day when some of these people face charges before I’m droned.

  • toc1234

    Sanger is such an Obama apologist… “well, sure, Obama nuked a granny in her garden, but well, remember it could have been worse”.

    • Coastghost

      “Yeah, he could’ve mussed up her daffodils and pansies, too!”

    • StilllHere

      I think I might have done it when I logged into healthcare.gov. I hit the Execute button several times.

  • TFRX

    Where was all this drone concern in the mainstream press in 2006?

    • fun bobby

      the MSM is notoriously unreliable.

      • TFRX

        No, it’s pretty damned predictable: Compulsory militarism and patrioticking were the rage during Bush II’s term, therefore when the GOP congress and prez got the laws leading to drones in place, it wasn’t any problem except for the “fringe left”.

        The Diane Sawyers, Politicos and Sunday gasbags didn’t care, because the “Daddy party”, the GOP, was running things.

        • fun bobby

          the MSM works for the MIC. it does not matter who the president it

          • TFRX

            Wow, you got some catching up to do.

  • OnPointComments

    I wonder if those who expressed concern yesterday about “Big Money And The GOP” are as concerned that billionaire George Soros has signed on for Hillary For President.

    • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

      He’s a “good” Billionaire. Not like those “evil” Koch brothers. LOL the hypocrisy is so thick you have to cut it with a knife.

      • Ray in VT

        What’s the record on Soros stealing oil from Indian tribes or fighting to keep carcinogens in our everyday products?

        • TFRX

          Or vote-scrubbing? Destroying Medicaid, state by state?

        • toc1234

          its probably pretty bad considering he had no problem sending the whole Thai economy into recession (thus igniting the Asian contagion of 1997-1998) by shorting the baht. greedy speculator that he is.

          • Ray in VT

            He did that? I suppose that you have a good source for that? The Encyclopedia Britannica certainly doesn’t seem to put any special blame on him.

            Did Soros also make his way in life by heading a company that did work for Stalin and has he/is he being investigated for allegations of secret dealings with Iran?

          • toc1234

            worked in the business back then and watched the trading floor go haywire w people yelling that soros was crushing the baht. carry on.

          • Ray in VT

            Oh, so people yelling on the floor is a good source and Britannica is not? Good info.

          • toc1234

            How about HuffPo quoting komrade krugman? that’s pretty much gospel for your ilk…

            ‘He was known as “the man who broke the Bank of England” for selling short the British pound in 1992 and helping force the United Kingdom to withdraw from the European Exchange Rate Mechanism, which devalued the pound and earned Soros more than $1 billion.
            And his Soros Fund Management was widely blamed for helping trigger the Asian financial crisis of 1997, by selling short the Thai baht and Malaysian ringgit.
            “Subsequently, Prime Minister Mahatir of Malaysia accused me of causing the crisis, a wholly unfounded accusation,” Soros wrote in The Crisis of Global Capitalism: Open Society Endangered,” in 1998.
            “We were not sellers of the currency during or several months before the crisis; on the contrary … we were purchasing ringgits to realize profits on our earlier speculation.”
            Still, economist Paul Krugman was one of many observers who accused Soros of helping trigger the crisis.
            In 1999, Krugman wrote that “nobody who has read a business magazine in the last few years can be unaware that these days there really are investors who not only move money in anticipation of a currency crisis, but actually do their best to trigger that crisis for fund and profit.”

          • Ray in VT

            What is my “ilk”, and why should I consider anything to be gospel? There doesn’t seem to be much agreement on who is to blame. Some blame the IMF, some blame lack of domestic good governance. But maybe I should just take the word of a couple of people and go with that. Thanks for the pointer.

          • toc1234

            I realize that denial is the first step, but you really should just accept that your idol Soros was a greedy speculator who ruined peoples’ lives in the chase for fast profits… its better than flailing around quoting an encyclopedia in the 21st century…

          • Ray in VT

            Yup, I guess that I should just accept your word for, plus the people screaming on the floor, as well as Paul Krugman’s, who I am supposed to worship for some reason, rather than highly respected and established reference sources. Have any other research advice for me, because, lord knows after doing a BA, an MS and being (in part) a professional researcher, I really need to take your advice on this matter.

          • toc1234

            holy crap, you’re a part-time looker-upper pro. my bad. and you know what, since you’re here… I was wondering today what’s the population of Mongolia. if you could look that up and get back to me, it would be much appreciated. thanks!

          • Ray in VT

            Well, I did go further than people shouting and probably what, a simple Google search? I’d expect any college freshman to do better. Maybe I can just direct my company’s clients to you, as you seem to think that you have all of the answers, which often seems to be the case when one doesn’t produce much in the way of solid sources. You think that you have the answers, so go ahead and look that up. Wait, some people were just shouting numbers outside of my office. One of those is probably the population of Mongolia.

          • HonestDebate1

            97% of climate scientist agree.

          • Ray in VT

            How can that be? Anyone who is everyone knows that man can’t destroy what God has made. Obviously those scientists haven’t consulted the crack team behind the climate petition.

          • fun bobby

            if looking up things pays well I will take some of your clients

          • Ray in VT

            Our clients pay for information and research. It’s a lot more than googling something.

          • fun bobby

            that sounds easy what does it pay?

          • Ray in VT

            As long as one looks at valid sources and eschews conspiracy theories in favor of facts, then it becomes considerably easier.

          • fun bobby

            sure, what fields do you research?

          • Ray in VT

            Most any, although history is the area where I am most comfortable. Another big part of my job is identifying and acquiring access to information that may be of interest or use to our clients and then providing a way to make it easily searchable.

          • fun bobby

            i used to have a set of Britannica, it was pretty great.

          • StilllHere

            He’s still working on his PhD. Give him a break.

          • StilllHere

            You’re quoting his g-d, now you’ve got him squirming.

          • fun bobby

            yes primary sources are better than secondary sources

          • Ray in VT

            It depends upon the source. My dad lived through the Great Depression, but I’d take David M. Kennedy’s Freedom From Fear as a better source for the history of the time.

          • fun bobby

            i have not read it but history books are inevitably revisionist. better to ask your dad what it was really like. I did a school project where we had to ask our elders about the depression and their experience was much different that what I had had portrayed for me from secondary sources.

          • Ray in VT

            If one puts much stock in questionable sources and materials, then one is likely to find even the best researched and written books to be objectionable.

            First hand accounts are often limited to the scope and experience of the person. My dad knew a pretty fair amount about Depression/World War II era Milton, Vermont, but even that was limited to what he saw and heard, which was far from all that was going on even in that one small town in one small state.

          • fun bobby

            that’s why I like to ask several people

          • HonestDebate1

            Crashing economies is a hobby of his.

    • MrNutso

      I’m concerned about big money involvement in both parties, whether it’s Soro’s or the Kochs.

    • brettearle

      You mean because Soros’s money will go into exposing Christie’s ties to Mafia, like what T. Boone Pickens’s money did for the malignant Swift Boat Campaign against Kerry?

    • hennorama

      OPC — the topic yesterday was Big Money And The GOP ‘Civil War.’

      There’s no significant “civil war” within the Democratic Party at present.

      • brettearle

        Thanks for your long reply, a few days ago, about Part-Time Employment. I’m still digesting it…..

        Can I still go on with the clues–or do I have to spill the Beans?

        • hennorama

          Bean, eggs, and spam?

          • brettearle

            OK,

            One mother hen asked a second mother hen to lay her eggs for her. The first time, it didn’t work.

            So she asked her a second time.

            And, again, it was for naught.

            And so the moral of the story is:

            Class, Fill in the Blank….

            Fool me once the _____ on you.
            Fool me twice, the _____on me.

          • brettearle

            Mona! They’re at it again!:

            The serious-minded Forum surfers–who need to eliminate humor, because we’re……not…….sticking…..to….the….script.

            They’ve given us, yet another “dislike” for our, quote, `extraneous’ exchanges….

            Just think:

            The Petty Crusader hung around to strike again–all because he’s not yet ready to go back to re-runs of Greta Van Sustern or the 700 Club, waiting for him, on his VCR…..

          • hennorama

            brettearle — linking your comment to mine, directly above it, and your topic:

            The Simpsons, Season 1, Episode 6: Moaning Lisa

            Lisa meets “Bleeding Gums Murphy” in this episode.

            Bleedin’ Gums Murphy: The blues isn’t about feeling better. It’s about making other people feel WORSE, and making a few bucks while you’re at it.

            See:
            http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0701178/

            Further proof that, like South Park and Seinfeld, there seems to be a Simpsons episode for just about everything.

          • fun bobby

            thus the south park episode “simpsons did it”

          • hennorama

            fun bobby — Indeed. (except the episode is titled “[The] simpsons [Already] did it”

            The South Park guys are very, very talented.

            http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s06e07-the-simpsons-already-did-it

          • fun bobby

            how do you have so much free time?

          • hennorama

            fun bobby – my time is not “free.”

            Without detail, I will say that I long ago left behind my modest upbringing and have been both fortunate and smart in my personal, educational, and economic activities. At present, I am fortunate enough to have both the time and resources to be able to indulge my varied interests and tastes, with little concern about the amount of time involved.

          • fun bobby

            it does not seem to have much value but as long as ranting on the internet makes you happy that’s what counts

          • hennorama

            fun bobby — your disparagement is noted.

            Out of curiosity, as I am mildly interested in how others perceive my posts, please give some examples of my “ranting on the internet.”

            Thanks for your response.

          • fun bobby

            just click on your avitar

          • hennorama

            fun bobby — Gotcha. You can’t engage on a constructive basis. No problem.

          • brettearle

            Ode To an Emerald Soul

            by brettearle

            There are those who Rant because they Can’t

            There are those who Rant not, because they Can;

            “Futo Buddy”, by far, the Former;

            His, erstwhile Name, I am the [gleeful] Informer…..

            Recall now, patrons our dear Salieri–
            of whose esteem we were quite wary;

            Would his muse, find Wolf-gang’s Pan-o-rama?

            Alas, `tis that with FB and Henn-orama….

          • hennorama

            Yachtmusik-loving
            OddOdeOriginating
            Lieblings-Mädchen Lebenspartner
            Kraken-taming
            Softie

          • hennorama

            D’oh!

            You
            Old
            Lunatic
            Knucklehead
            Sumbitch

          • fun bobby

            fool me fool me fool me we can’t get fooled again?

        • hennorama

          Spill away. I can always use another chuckle.

          (but perhaps as a reply to an older post — prying eyes and all ;-))

          • brettearle

            Somethin’ happenin’ here;
            what it is ain’t exactly clear….

            I just got deleted…right here…[on this show].

          • HonestDebate1

            Stop children, what’s that sound?

          • brettearle

            I’m not talking to you….

          • brettearle

            What I mean is, I’m, in general, not talking to you…..

            I’m not referring to any particular, or specific, exchange.

          • HonestDebate1

            Everybody look, what’s going down? There’s battle lines being drawn. Nobody’s right if everybody’s wrong.

          • hennorama

            brettearle — deletion/moderation/censorship … whatever you call it, wear it proudly.

      • pete18

        That’s because there’s no diversity in the Democratic party.

        • Ray in VT

          Good one. How’s the diversity campaign in the GOP and the Tea Party going?

          • TFRX

            It’s the “Ninotchka Gambit”: Seems like they’re on a drive to have “Fewer, yet better, Republicans”.

            (Yes, I said Republicans, and I recognize that there are NoRepublicansHere. But I’m not gotta ruin the sleekness of the phrase by adding the Tea Party in there. The Tea Party had their putsch four and a half years ago.)

          • pete18

            So diverse we have a civil war.

          • Ray in VT

            The Tea Party’s demographics don’t look real diverse either.

          • HonestDebate1

            Compare the number of pro-lifers in the Obama administration to the pro-choicers in Bush’s. Bush’s Secretaries of State were all black, Obama’s are white. None of that really attars to me I would just like a little diversity of thought instead of yes men. No one will stand up to Obama.

          • Ray in VT

            75 African Americans and Latinos in Congress. 8 of them are Republicans. 11 Asian Pacific Islanders. 0 Republicans.

          • HonestDebate1

            So?

          • Ray in VT

            It says something about the ability of Republicans to elect minorities. All 3 Buddhists in Congress are Democrats, as is the only Hindu, both Muslims, 31 of 33 Jews and all 10 unspecified:

            http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2960366/posts

          • Ray in VT

            Obama also doesn’t appear to have the diversity of opinion regarding contraception and STD transmission. For instance, I am not aware of attempts by the Obama administration to push abstinence in international family planning as a alternative to condoms in the developing world. How dare they be so closed minded?

          • jefe68

            Tea party = diversity, that’s is an oxymoron.

        • hennorama

          Credit where due redux: that’s funny right there.

          • jefe68

            Wow, these clowns really do live in an alternative universe.

      • WorriedfortheCountry

        “no significant “civil war” within the Democratic Party”

        That’s usually how it rolls with the party holding the WH.

      • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

        Really do tell…

  • MrNutso

    The rollout difficulties of Healthcare.gov underscore the obvious conclusion about heath insurance in this country. A single payer system is the only way to go.

    • StilllHere

      Yes, the lesson is give the government more control!

      • OnPointComments

        It’s always the government answer. If the problem is that hundreds of millions of dollars are spent on a website that is dysfunctional, the solution is to spend hundreds of millions more. If the problem is that the government botches a partial takeover of healthcare, give it responsibility for all of healthcare.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Central planning 18% of the economy destroyed by the combination of politics and incompetence.

      Of course, let’s go all in. What could go wrong?

  • NotEasyBeingGreen

    Please, David Sanger, realize that when you use the words “collateral damage” to describe the killing of innocent civilians by U.S. drones, you lose your credibility as a journalist. That sanitized doublespeak is EXACTLY what those who benefit from the killing (the military-industrial complex) want you to say. Three pieces of advice: Read your Orwell, stand up for those who have no voice, and don’t be a lap-dog for the powers that be.

  • JGC

    Mr. Snowden, could you please release the NSA tapped conversations from Berlusconi’s personal phone?

    Thank you.

    • fun bobby

      its mostly a lot of heavy breathing

    • hennorama

      Is ‘bunga bunga’ the Italian equivalent of ‘hubba hubba’?

    • StilllHere

      I think I’d prefer the photos, but I’m not sure.

  • dawoada

    Relative to the collateral damage from drone strikes by the US: What about the collateral damage by the “enemy,” the terrorists? They TARGET civilians; 100% collateral damage. We only kill civilians by mistake. Other wars (and lets face it, this is a war), civilians were regularly targeted. During WW II the Germans targeted London and we targeted German cities. Lets compare apples with apples.

    • fun bobby

      during this war our own elected officials have attempted to disarm the people. whose side are the on?

  • OnPointComments

    I’m beginning to think that it must be Michelle who moderates the comments on Disqus.

  • StilllHere

    I thought Matzzie’s avatar made him look fat, then I saw his Tweeted picture. It’s not the avatar’s fault.

  • tim

    Ancient Rocks:
    Maybe a suitable punishment for the Boyscout knuckleheads that toppled the ancient rock would be to force them to video themselves putting it back…and posting it to YouTube?

    Merkel’s cell phone:
    Anyone who still thinks that their cell phone conversations are private is dreaming. We are moving into an era where snarky high school kids can do what the NSA does. In the future, a new Edward Snowden will appear every day.

    Ancient Rocks:
    I’d love to have Donald Fagan over for Thanksgiving.

    • fun bobby

      there won’t be many secrets left at that pace

  • pete18
    • StilllHere

      Extortionists!

      • Government_Banking_Serf

        Anarchists! Oh my!

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Obamacare call center employee fired after answering questions when Sean Hannity called the phone bank.

    From listening to the call it isn’t clear what she did wrong and why she was fired. Will the media hold the regime accountable? Ask them to explain?

    It took them one day to fire this woman. Louis Lerner was never fired. Hmmm.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/10/25/hannity_has_fired_obamacare_operator_earline_davis_on_his_fox_news_show.html

    • hennorama

      WftC — many employment policies put some limitations on employee contact with the media. That could be the reason this person was terminated.

      • HonestDebate1

        She said it was never addressed during her extensive training. What she did was told the truth to millions. That’s the part that got her fired.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          The most ‘transparent’ administration in history. Oops!!!

          Louis Lerner refused to testify and thus be transparent. She was not fired.

          • fun bobby

            i’m sure its just that the president gets opaque and transparent mixed up

      • WorriedfortheCountry

        Hannity called the phone bank. She was randomly selected to take his call. He asked her if they restricted her talking to the media during her training. She claimed — no, it was never mentioned..

        • hennorama

          WftC — I did not hear any such thing on the audio of the call. Please provide a time reference. (I listened here:
          http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/10/21/hannity_calls_obamacare_call_center_operator_says_no_one_likes_it_so_far.html )

          Regardless, even assuming what you wrote is accurate, it doesn’t mean that such media contact restrictions are not in the policies. Quite often, such policies are included in a handbook, and are not specifically mentioned in training, or are mentioned only briefly. However, the employee will generally be required to sign a document that they have read and understand all the policies.

          In addition, one could view the 10 minute interview as clear evidence that she was not performing her duties as required.

          And regardless, she indicated she was in Florida. Florida is an employment-at-will jurisdiction. At-will employers can terminate their employees with or without cause.

          • HonestDebate1

            There were two calls. Why are you speculating so much?

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            She isn’t an ‘Edward Snowden’ releasing ‘state’ secrets. She is a public servant working for the American people paid with taxpayer money.

          • hennorama

            WftC — it was implied that she worked for a private company. Do you have other info indicating she was ” a public servant working for the American people paid with taxpayer money”?

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            I have no idea if she was employed by a private contractor or directly by the Federal government. Either way the contract was paid for by tax dollars and her function was that of a public servant.

          • HonestDebate1

            I will go out on a limb and speculate that if she had sang the praises and told Hannity’s very rage audience that everyone was thrilled, she would not have been fired.

          • OnPointComments

            I will go out on a limb and speculate that if the Obama administration had sent in Navy seals to assassinate the woman’s family for her transgression of talking with Sean Hannity, many Obama sycophants on here would be okay with it.

          • HonestDebate1

            I don’t know whether to laugh or cry at that.

          • Ray in VT

            and if the administration ran out some bogus claims saying that she was operating with Al Qaeda would conservatives be okay with invading her and her family?

          • HonestDebate1

            You can sign up for jihad on Al Qaeda’s website. No problems.

          • Ray in VT

            Maybe, considering the President’s supposed support of Islamic radicals, Issa should look into why they didn’t get to place a bid.

          • HonestDebate1

            Yea, that’s troubling.

          • Ray in VT

            We’ll there’s not not evidence that this has gone on.

          • HonestDebate1

            Sure there is is.

          • fun bobby

            they did not make a big enough campaign contribution, without bin laden they cant throw money around like they used to

          • fun bobby

            that’s funny. I always wonder why we don’t just shut down all their websites and/or nab everyone involved in putting them up. do people in caves really have superior IT?

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Absolutely.

            I wonder if any pressure was applied to get her fired or if the contractor acted preemptively to preserve ‘their contract’.

          • HonestDebate1

            That’s a good question. Either way I’m sure the company had marching orders and knew their role. It certainly was not to sign people up because it doesn’t work. It was to explain away the difficulties. She said they had scripts for everything.

          • hennorama

            WftC — doing your homework for you:

            “On Monday, Hannity called an Obamacare hotline and a conversation with the woman, Erling Davis, in which he pressed her for details about the lackluster rollout of Obamacare.

            “That phone call led to her termination from the private contractor where she worked, Davis said when Hannity interviewed her Thursday. Hannity then promised to give her a year’s salary.”

            So much for your claim.

            See:
            http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/24/obamacare-operator-fired-after-hannity-radio-call/#ixzz2ikrfKaAG

          • HonestDebate1

            Was the half billion or so paid to CGI (a private company) taxpayer money?

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            What did I get wrong?

            Are you disputing that a federal contractor paid for by the taxpayers doing work on the behalf of the American people isn’t a public servant?

          • hennorama

            WftC — please allow me to quote and replace:

            YOU: “She is a public servant working for the American people paid with taxpayer money.”

            ACCURATE: “She [was] a [private employee] working [at a private company] paid with taxpayer money.”

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Wow!! I’m speachless.

          • hennorama

            WftC — BTW, you can also substitute “Edward Snowden” for “She,” as Mr. Snowden was also a private employee working at a private company paid with taxpayer money.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            I had already compared her to Snowden. The difference is she wasn’t not releasing state secrets. However she was telling the truth that happened to be embarrassing to the regime.

          • hennorama

            WftC — that is your conclusion.

            It is accurate that the sequence of events was:

            1. 10 minute interview with Mr. Hannity
            2. termination of private employment

            I keep doing your homework. From the same source to which you linked, realclearpolitics.com :

            HANNITY: Okay, so it’s a fairly new job for you. Did they—I assume they put you through some training, right?

            DAVIS: Yes sir, they did.

            HANNITY: And did they ever tell you that you’re not allowed to take a call from a radio show? Your job was to answer phones.

            DAVIS: I did not hear anything about that. There were so many of us in a big group, you can only talk so loud.

            HANNITY: Right, and one of the things that struck me. I was really impressed, and I said that to you on Monday. You are patient, you are kind, you answered all our questions. You were totally honest. Wasn’t that what you were hired to do?

            DAVIS: Yeah, I’m just out here tryin’ to help everybody. And I know, like, some people have been making bad comments about me. Some people have been making good comments about me. But, some people are like, “Oh, you knew you shouldn’t have said that!” And I’m just like, okay… I kinda felt bad about it. My gosh, I got fired.

            HANNITY: And what was the specific reason? When they sat you down, did they give you a specific reason?

            DAVIS: They said that no contact with the media. No type of media whatsoever. We’re not allowed to do that at that company.

            HANNITY: Meaning, in other words, they didn’t tell you before you were hired, they didn’t tell you during your training, but then they told you after the fact that you aren’t allowed to be on the media if somebody called in. It’s not your fault I called.

            Comment: Ms. Davis indicated on the original call that she had one week of training. She did not indicate that the training did not cover media contact restrictions, but only that she (emphasis added) “did not HEAR anything about that. There were so many of us in a big group, YOU CAN ONLY TALK SO LOUD.”

            Hannity ignored that, and instead inserted his interpretation that “…in other words, they didn’t tell you before you were hired, they didn’t tell you during your training, but then they told you after the fact…”

            Of course, this helps his narrative. But he put words into her mouth that she did not say.

            See:
            http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/10/24/obamacare_operator_fired_after_taking_call_from_hannity_hannity_to_give_her_a_years_salary.html

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            If only you were so concerned with Louis Lerner’s non-firing.

            It is fairly clear that this woman is a victim of circumstance. There is no reason for her to be fired simply because of the Hannity call. Maybe there are other performance issues but I doubt it. Where is your compassion?

            Snowden sought employment at an NSA contractor with the sole motivation of exposing state secrets per his admissions.

          • hennorama

            WftC – Avocados and olives as to Ms. Davis vs. Ms Lerner. A private employer vs. a public employer, with different policies, to name the most pertinent difference.

            Ms. Davis clearly will be just fine, and needs no compassion from me. Based on the interview, she’s very good on the phone. If I had an appropriate employment opportunity available in her area, she’d certainly get an interview. Plus, Hannity is giving her $25 K.

            If Ms. Davis violated the terms of her employment, then her employer is free to terminate her. Simple. Anyone who believes in free enterprise should support the employer’s rights, don’t you agree?

            Her termination is convenient and useful for Mr. Hannity et al, but he put words into her mouth, and has spun this for his own purposes – ratings and money.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            You conflate the employers ‘right’ to proper and ethical behavior.

            I wonder if you would show similar lack of compassion to a Haliburton employee fired for exposing wasteful spending in Iraq.

          • hennorama

            WftC – Thank you for your response.

            This molehill of an issue is being made into a mountain. An employee violated company policy and was terminated. Big deal.

            The implication is that Ms. Davis was terminated for the CONTENT of her communication with Mr. Hannity, rather than the FACT that she communicated with him, which was against company policy.

            There’s no conflation of anything coming from me.

          • HonestDebate1

            It is wildly speculative to think she violated anything without proof or even a shred of evidence, Building your argument on a whacked premise is disingenuous.

          • fun bobby

            so the government has less liability just like the contractors we hire to fight our wars for us?

          • hennorama

            fun bobby — Ms. Davis worked for a private company and was not employed by any government.

            As your post implies, a great deal of what used to be done by government employees has been privatized, for better and worse.

          • fun bobby

            that’s what I said

          • HonestDebate1

            Your comment is completely accurate as Hennon confirms below by refusing to point out any inaccuracies. Instead you got a cutsie copout.

    • hennorama

      WftC — neither “the regime” nor “them” terminated Ms. Davis’ private employment. Rather, it was her private employer that terminated her.

      As it turns out, my first instinct, that an employment policy limiting employee contact with the media was a possible reason for Ms. Davis’ termination, was spot on.

      There’s no mountain here, just a molehill.

    • StilllHere

      Another in a long line of Obama scandals that the media will ignore …

  • tbphkm33

    The Tea Baggers are out enforce today – oh how much glee they take in the difficulties of the ACA website. If they only would care an ounce about the people who are depending upon the Affordable Care Act for the health of themselves and their children. It must be nice to have blinders on and just stand up on that soap box.

    One Tea Bagger even quoted the venerable Fox “Entertainment” News channel – asserting the immense journalistic integrity of that propaganda “news” outlet. Hmm, guess if you stick your head in the sand long enough, you get so light headed that even Fox “Entertainment” News starts to seem less alter reality and more “real.”

    Above all, lets remind the Nopublican’s and the fringe Tea Baggers of that increasingly irrelevant political party that The People, namely the voters, are not going to forget the shut down and the negative impacts of the debt debacle anytime soon. Distract as much as you like, reality is still that the Nopublican Party is hell bent on riding into obscurity.

    • pete18

      They can’t be irrelevant if they are causing you so much angst. Seems like a lot of arrogance and a limited scope of compassion coming from high up on your soapbox. The people who are hurt by Obamacare don’t seem to get into the framework of your blinders.

    • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB
      • HonestDebate1

        My guess is there are many Tea Partiers that don’t realize they are Tea Partiers.

        • tbphkm33

          I agree, I have been saying for years that the Tea Baggers have no clue as to what they are. Many of them just need to get back on their meds.

          • fun bobby

            speak for yourself

          • the anti-Emily

            Well, they’re older and financially well off. The last thing they want is changes to the current healthcare system that would force them to pay more money or have their access to medical care be rationed by a third party. They may be the ones who fantasize about living for 200 years using modern technology under our current healthcare system because it works so well for them–and they really only care about themselves.

    • jefe68

      They sure are. It’s the Friday regressive right rodeo clown show.

      • fun bobby

        have you picked a word for today yet?

        • StilllHere

          I think he’s been mailing it in lately. The passion is just not there.

          • fun bobby

            poor little guy he tries so hard

          • StilllHere

            We should chip in and get him a thesaurus. Maybe the one of the other patients has taken his.

          • jefe68

            The smell on this forum is awful today. You guys really should wash your regressive dogma more often.

          • pete18

            15!

        • jefe68

          Asinine seems appropriate.
          But I could also go for brainless, mindless, senseless, idiotic, imbecilic, ridiculous, ludicrous, absurd, nonsensical, fatuous, silly, inane, witless, empty-headed also come to mind when describing the your tired act.

          • pete18

            That’s 14 shots, this Friday is off to a great start.

          • lobstahbisque

            Jefe you forgot vapid and jejune.

          • jefe68

            as well as uninspired, colorless, uninteresting, feeble, flat, dull, boring,tedious, tired, unexciting, uninspiring, unimaginative, vacuous, bland, trite,

          • fun bobby

            for that you have to finish your drink

    • fun bobby

      yeah right, voters will remember something in a year. its funny to see these bizarre thoughts of yours

    • 228929292AABBB

      The truth is the conceptual opposition to government health care was that when government gets involved with a problem the original problem becomes more expensive and worse at the hands of a bloated and expensive beaurocracy. The problem with the website woes is they seem to verify that view, and it is legitimate to be concerned they form an example and prediction of the ‘competence’ with which the whole enterprise will be handled. Surely anyone objective, even an Obama voter such as myself must admit that much.

      • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

        We could have (and did) see this coming. During the 2008 campaign Sen Obama said:

        Well, you know, my understanding is that, uh, Governor Palin’s town of Wasilly [sic] has, uh, 50 employees, uh, uh, we’ve got 2500, uh, in this campaign. I think their budget is maybe $12 million a year. Uh, uh, we have a budget of about three times that just for the month. Uh, so I think that, uh, our ability to manage large systems, uh, and to, uh, execute, uh, I think has been made clear over the last couple of years. Uh, and certainly, in terms of, uh, the legislation that I’ve passed just dealing with this issue post-Katrina, uh, of how we handle emergency management. The fact that, uh, many of my recommendations were adopted and are being put in place, uh, as we speak indicates to extent to which we can provide the kinds of support and good service that the American people expect.

        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2072909/posts

  • HonestDebate1

    It’s much worse to say the consequence of Sarah Palin’s harmless rhetoric is a bullet to the brain of Gabby. That’s what Tom said.

  • Kristen Maharian

    When you shine a light in the dark hole known as the NSA, cockroaches come out. Thank you Snowden for showing us what our “Orwellian” government is doing in the name of security.

    • tbphkm33

      I agree, the current episode of the scandal has the potential of casting a dark shadow over U.S. diplomatic initiatives with European countries for the next ten to twenty years. Moreover, it will cause other countries to develop secure communications within their own nations, which will push technology forward, but moves innovation out of the United States. The activities of the NSA is forcing other countries to out innovate the U.S., thus placing the U.S. in an unnecessary economic disadvantage within the tech industry.

      • fun bobby

        yeah right the NSA wont infiltrate those as well. do you really think France has it in them to create a encryption the NSA can’t crack? do you think the NSA is going to stop doing what they are doing any time soon?

  • OnPointComments

    A LIBERAL’S PERSPECTIVE:
    ● Hundred and hundreds of millions of dollars are spent on Obamacare websites that don’t work? Don’t worry. It’s only been four weeks. There’s no rush. Kick back and relax.
    ● 15% of nonessential government is temporarily shutdown for 16 days? OMG! THE WORLD IS ENDING! WOE IS ME! WHAT WILL WE DO, WHAT WILL WE DO!

    • HonestDebate1

      Bingo!

    • tbphkm33

      Yep, at a direct cost of $24 billion + yet to be tallied negative economic impact. Lets also remind you that due to the Nopublican stunt, the U.S. Treasury is going to be paying higher interest rates on Bonds, which will tally into the hundreds of billions (if not a trillion+) over the next twenty years – billions that could have been spent on economic activity within the United States.

      • StilllHere

        Yeah, those S&P guys never get anything wrong. What a stooge!

      • OnPointComments

        S&P’s “estimate” of $24 billion is totally unsupported by any details.

        • hennorama

          OPC – have you tried contacting the S&P analyst, as suggested?

          • OnPointComments

            No.

      • HonestDebate1
        • OnPointComments

          Here’s my guess on how S&P came up with its number: it was widely reported that 15% of government nonessential services were shutdown. 15% of average daily government spending for 16 days is approximately $24 billion dollars. S&P’s estimate of $24 billion dollars assumes that what wasn’t spent during those 16 days will never, ever be spent, which is a foolish assumption. Jeffrey Dorfman is correct: there will be no $24b economic loss from the government shutdown.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            If S&P hadn’t stepped up Mark Zandi reported that he was available to provide the necessary talking point.

          • StilllHere

            He’s had to kiss a lot of azzes and still hasn’t managed to get into this administration. :-(

          • HonestDebate1

            I’d guess you are right but the sad part is the number has been repeated so much that many believe it.

          • fun bobby

            like that bogus post newton gun control poll

          • StilllHere

            Instead of being chained to their desks, those nonessentials, who knew they’d be paid anyway, were out at the mall spending money like bandits. It was a net benefit to the economy according to the boys at Moody’s.

          • hennorama

            StilllHere — more malarkey.

            “The boys at Moody’s” estimate the negative economic impact at $23 Billion.

            Perhaps you missed it. It has been widely reported:

            http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2013/10/18/how-much-did-the-shutdown-cost-the-economy/

            http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/10/the-costs-of-the-government-shutdown/

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Mark Zandi? He’s always good for malarkey.

          • StilllHere

            I didn’t see any reference to Moody’s, I think you’re losing it.

            The gals at Fitch say it was also a net positive.

          • hennorama

            OPC — good to see an admission of your guesswork.

            Please point out exactly where “S&P’s estimate of $24 billion dollars assumes that what wasn’t spent during those 16 days will never, ever be spent…”

          • HonestDebate1

            Please give evidence of how we allegedly lost $24 billion.

          • fun bobby

            I would like to know where it went

          • HonestDebate1

            It went to barricading the WWII memorial, blocking scenic overlooks and covering Mt. Rushmore with a tarp.

          • OnPointComments

            All of us have to make assumptions about S&P’s estimate, because S&P provided no details on how it arrived at the number. My assumption is that S&P foolishly took 15% of 16 days of government spending, and didn’t account for subsequent spending. You are absolutely free to provide your own guess of how S&P calculated its amount.

          • hennorama

            OPC – as stated previously, I am not an economist.

            It’s true that your guess works out about right. Projected Federal FY 2014 spending is about $3.6 T, so 15 percent of 16 days worth is about $23.7 B. Of course, this assumes that the 15 percent figure is accurate, which is far from certain, as is discussed here:
            http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/oct/04/rand-paul/rand-paul-says-only-15-percent-federal-spending-be/

            It’s also true that S&P’s estimate that “the shutdown has shaved at least 0.6% off of annualized fourth-quarter 2013 GDP growth, or taken $24 billion out of the economy” works out to be a similar figure. FY 2013 GDP is projected as a bit over $16.0 T, so 0.6 percent of one quarter’s worth of that is north of $24.2 B.

            I make no assumptions about S&P’s estimate, and have personally have been careful from the very start to describe the figure of $24 B as an estimate, and not a definitive number. That others have seized on this estimated figure and have discussed it without saying it is only an estimate is not surprising, but is unwise in my view.

            Other estimates range from 0.2 to 0.8 percent of GDP for the quarter, implying a range of about $8 B to $34 B.

            Of course, it’s not simply direct Federal spending that’s at issue. Quoting S&P:

            “…the current chatter coming out of Washington suggests that any continuing resolution will be a temporary one, with an early 2014 timeframe for the next set of Washington deadlines. The short turnaround for politicians to negotiate some sort of lasting deal will likely weigh on consumer confidence, especially among government workers that were furloughed. If people are afraid that the government policy brinkmanship will resurface again, and with it the risk of another shutdown or worse, they’ll remain afraid to open up their checkbooks. That points to another Humbug holiday season.”

            See:
            http://www.standardandpoors.com/ratings/articles/en/us/?assetID=1245358642459#ContactInfo

            Quoting wsj.com:

            “Consumer confidence has generally proven to be a fairly strong predictor of actual spending behavior. So the decline in consumer sentiment to a nine-month low earlier this month—a drop echoed by other measures, such as Gallup’s daily tracker of economic confidence—is cause for concern.”

            See:
            http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2013/10/19/number-of-the-week-economic-impact-of-shutdown-was-likely-small/

            The point is that these events do have a negative impact. How much of an impact is uncertain, but no one says the economic impact of the shutdown will be either zero or positive.

          • HonestDebate1

            How do you factor in the certain knowledge that the administration wants to make it sound worse the it really is?

            I say the impact was positive.

          • fun bobby

            the dow is doing awesome. consumer confidence will be fine and consumers will have forgotten all about the shutdown by black Friday and no one will worry about the next shutdown because its not until after the holiday. what great timing.

          • hennorama

            fun bobby – you may be right, but a few recent headlines give pause:

            “Government Shutdown Fallout: Two out of Five Consumers Curb Spending”
            http://www.cnbc.com/id/101114279

            “Government shutdown slams consumer confidence”
            http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_162-57609325/government-shutdown-slams-consumer-confidence/

            “Consumer confidence tumbles as government shutdown sows pessimism”
            http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-consumer-confidence-shutdown-michigan-reuters-economy-20131025,0,4742908.story#axzz2iq4pY21z

            “U.S. consumer sentiment slides in October on government shutdown”
            http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/25/us-usa-economy-sentiment-idUSBRE99O0LU20131025

            “Orders Drop Shows U.S. Business Confidence Wanes: Economy”
            http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-25/capital-goods-orders-in-u-s-unexpectedly-declined-in-september.html

            “Orders for Durable Goods Rise, but Report Shows Sliding Consumer Sentiment”
            http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/26/business/economy/orders-for-durable-goods-rise-but-report-shows-sliding-consumer-sentiment.html?_r=0

            “Shutdown drags down Financial Security Index”
            http://www.bankrate.com/finance/consumer-index/financial-security-poll-1013.aspx

            “Consumer-sentiment gauge lowest in almost a year”
            http://www.marketwatch.com/story/consumer-sentiment-gauge-lowest-in-almost-a-year-2013-10-25

            “Government Shutdown Cuts Retail Shopping And Spending”
            http://news.investors.com/business/101513-675143-government-shutdown-prompts-spending-curb.htm

          • fun bobby

            i am obviously not going to click on those links but just looking at the titles they do not seem all that recent. seems like they were from during or right after the shut down. that was almost 2 weeks ago. the American public has a memory of about 24 hours. we don’t even know what the must have toy for the season is

          • hennorama

            fun bobby – wrong.

            In sequence, the linked articles are dated:

            October 15, 2013
            October 25, 2013
            October 25, 2013
            October 25, 2013
            October 25, 2013
            October 22, 2013
            October 25, 2013
            October 15, 2013

            The shutdown ended less than 10 days ago, in the very early morning of Thursday October 17, 2013, when President Obama signed the bill.

            These very same issues are going to be in the public eye again very, very soon, in the middle of the holiday shopping season. Congressional leaders committed themselves to finding a budget compromise, and set their deadline for December 13, 2013.

            I’m sure it’s merely a coincidence that the deadline is Friday the 13th of December, and no one will pay any attention to that fact.

          • fun bobby

            yup, any of those that are past 24 hours old are expired. now a Friday the 13 deadline? that could be a great fodder for the 24 hour news mill. oh political theater is fun

      • OnPointComments

        Funny how liberals’ concern about higher US Treasury interest rates evaporates when the discussion is the debt and deficit, which were given as the reason for the downgrade of the US credit rating.

        • TFRX

          Funny how you forgot the right’s WATB tantrums. S&P didn’t.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Just in, from the Ministry of Truth:

    “Carney to Jon Karl: “Good Reporters” Have Been Reporting On Obamacare Success Stories”"

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/10/24/jay_carney_vs_jon_karl_good_reporters_have_been_reporting_on_obamacare_success_stories-comments.html

    • StilllHere

      They will be allowed to ask questions at press conferences. Pre-screened that is…

      As for the others, “No soup for you!”

    • OnPointComments

      I heard someone say that you can tell when Jay Carney is lying because his lips are moving. It’s an old joke but it’s true.

      • WorriedfortheCountry

        I’ve heard him referred to as the “Bagdad Bob” of the regime. Very apt.

  • fun bobby

    when are we going to let teachers be able to defend themselves?

    • HonestDebate1
      • fun bobby

        I don’t put much stock in signs but that second one might make a loonie think twice

        • HonestDebate1

          The second one is appearing at schools in Texas. The first one is a magnet for murder.

          • fun bobby

            awesome. although I am surprised the “don’t mess with texas” signs everywhere are not enough

    • lobstahbisque

      I know. When will Republicans stop busting those teacher’s unions in the name of improving education?

      • fun bobby

        are the unions pushing for their members to be able to defend themselves and the republicans blocking it?

      • harverdphd

        When did they start?

      • tbphkm33

        As soon as they have succeeded in dumbing down the population to their level. Nothing worse for a Nopublican than an educated populace.

        • harverdphd

          too late, crybaby

    • lobstahbisque

      Oh hi. I see the devils are out in force today.

      • fun bobby

        devil Patrick?

        • lobstahbisque

          Non. The Cruellas de Vil.

          • fun bobby

            I cant say that a Dalmatian coat would not be stunning

          • StilllHere

            but murder … to clean

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          Deval? I’m still waiting for my property tax cut that he promised.

          • fun bobby

            you say potato

  • hennorama

    There’s no accounting for taste, or tastelessness.

  • OnPointComments

    Medicaid enrollment spike a threat to Obamacare structure?
    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505267_162-57609254/medicaid-enrollment-spike-a-threat-to-obamacare-structure/

    “A CBS News analysis shows that in many of the 15 state-based health insurance exchanges more people are enrolling in Medicaid rather than buying private health insurance. And if that trend continues, there’s concern there won’t be enough healthy people buying health insurance for the system to work.

    Washington state – 87 percent signed up for Medicaid
    Kentucky – 82 percent are in Medicaid
    New York – Medicaid accounts for 64 percent

    “And there are similar stories across the country in nearly half of the states that run their own exchanges.”

    • OnPointComments

      The hits just keep on coming…

      ABOUT THAT TAX CREDIT … WASHINGTON EXCHANGE MISCALCULATES SUBSIDIES FOR 8,000 PEOPLE
      http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/blog/health-care-inc/2013/10/about-that-tax-credit-washington.html

      “A system error in Washington state’s Healthplanfinder miscalculated tax credits for about 8,000 people who enrolled for health insurance through the online marketplace.

      “People were told that they were getting bigger tax credits than they were actually eligible for based on their income. The problem affected about 10 percent of customers enrolled, state officials indicated.”

    • HonestDebate1

      Are they claiming them to be successful Obamacare enrollments thereby inflating he numbers?

    • TFRX

      CBS is concern-trolling this. It’s predictable you’d latch onto their view of it.

  • OnPointComments

    Can you hear me now?

    President Obama: “So just think about that. Knowing you can offer your family the security of health care – that’s priceless. And now you can do it for less than your cell phone bill. That’s what change looks like.”

    $328: Average Monthly Health Insurance Cost Under the Affordable Care Act
    http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/health/NATL-ACA-328-Average-Monthly-Health-Insurance-Cost-Under-the-Affordable-Care-Act–225324422.html

    Oops. Either President Obama was wrong, or he doesn’t know what the average cell phone bill is.

    • fun bobby

      phone bill about 2 gs flat but no need to worry my accountant handles that

  • lobstahbisque

    And now, a little right wing hilarity for a change…..

    • jefe68

      Wow. Did she really say this? It’s as if this woman has the mental age of a 6 year old.
      I guess the King James bible (1611) does not count.

      • fun bobby

        i was reading some fringe website and they had dozens of articles about how the KJV is the one true bible and the received word of God and no other bibles are the word of God. I don’t know if that is an evangelical thing or not

      • HonestDebate1

        And Sarah Palin said she could see Russia from her front porch.

        • lobstahbisque

          Perfect segue. Michelle Bachmann also said, “Lady Liberty and Sarah Palin are lit by the same torch.”

          • HonestDebate1

            How true.

    • OnPointComments

      I’m sure most people with even a modicum of intelligence know that lobstahbisque’s comment is passing along a totally fabricated quote.

  • OnPointComments

    Which are there more of:

    1) people on some sort of means-tested government benefit program (programs such as Social Security, unemployment insurance, workers compensation, and veterans benefits are not considered to be “means tested”),

    or

    2) people employed full-time for the entire year?

    The answer is 1).

    GREAT: MORE AMERICANS ON WELFARE THAN WORKING FULL TIME
    http://townhall.com/tipsheet/christinerousselle/2013/10/25/great-more-americans-on-welfare-than-working-full-time-n1731984

    • hennorama

      OPC — interesting but misleading, and with a false headline.

      Misleading term: “people on”

      The Census figures include ANYONE residing in a household in which one or more people received benefits from the program. Here’s the Census definition of Household:

      “A household consists of all the people who occupy a housing unit. A house, an apartment or other group of rooms, or a single room, is regarded as a housing unit when it is occupied or intended for occupancy as separate living quarters; that is, when the occupants do not live with any other persons in the structure and there is direct access from the outside or through a common hall.

      “A household includes the related family members and all the unrelated people, if any, such as lodgers, foster children, wards, or employees who share the housing unit. A person living alone in a housing unit, or a group of unrelated people sharing a housing unit such as partners or roomers, is also counted as a household. The count of households excludes group quarters. There are two major categories of households, “family” and “nonfamily”.

      See:
      http://www.census.gov/cps/about/cpsdef.html

      Misleading term: Welfare (see below)

      These are the categories of means-tested programs in the Census data:

      Public or subsidized rental housing

      Federal Supplemental Security Income (SSI is for people who have low income and few resources and are Age 65 or older; Blind; or Disabled.)
      Food Stamps (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program)
      Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF)
      Other Cash Assistance
      Women, Infants, and Children (WIC) Food and Nutrition Service
      Medicaid

      False headline: More Americans on Welfare Than Working Full Time.

      Per BLS:

      Full-time workers for Sept. 2013: 116,899,000
      Full-time workers for Dec. 2011: 114,320,000.

      Both are higher than the narrower Census numbers (“Worked Full-Time, YEAR-ROUND”)

      ==========
      The reader is free to decide if the following are “WELFARE,” as redefined by the Heritage Foundation:

      Earned Income Tax Credit (refundable portion)
      Refundable Child Tax Credit

      Making Work Pay Tax Credit (remember that one? In 2009 and 2010, the Making Work Pay provision of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 provided a refundable tax credit of up to $400 for working individuals and up to $800 for married taxpayers filing joint returns.)

      Foster Care Title IVE (The Federal Foster Care Program helps to provide safe and stable out-of-home care for children until the children are safely returned home, placed permanently with adoptive families or placed in other planned arrangements for permanency.)

      Refugee Assistance

      MEDICAL:

      Indian Health Services
      Consolidated Health Centers/Community Health Centers
      Maternal and Child Health
      Medical Assistance to Refugees

      NUTRITION:

      School Breakfast and Lunch

      Commodity Supplemental Food Programs (works to improve the health of low-income pregnant and breastfeeding women, other new mothers up to one year postpartum, infants, children up to age six, and elderly people at least 60 years of age by supplementing their diets with nutritious USDA foods.)

      HOUSING:

      Low Income Housing Tax Credit for Developers

      Home Investment Partnership Program (HOME provides formula grants to States and localities that communities use-often in partnership with local nonprofit groups-to fund a wide range of activities that build, buy, and/or rehabilitate affordable housing for rent or homeownership or provide direct rental assistance to low-income people.)

      Homeless Assistance Grants (programs designed to prevent and end homelessness)

      Rural Housing Insurance Fund (Funds to insure or guarantee rural housing loans for single-family homes, rental and cooperative housing, and rural housing sites)

      Rural Housing Service (provides funding for single family homes, apartments for low-income persons or the elderly, housing for farm laborers, childcare centers, fire and police stations, hospitals, libraries, nursing homes, schools, etc. in rural areas)

      Housing for the Elderly (provides very low-income elderly with options that allow them to live independently but in an environment that provides support activities such as cleaning, cooking, transportation, etc. The program is similar to Supportive Housing for Persons with Disabilities)

      Native American Housing Block Grants (similar to Housing for the Elderly)

      Other Assisted Housing Programs (similar to Housing for the Elderly)

      Housing for Persons with Disabilities (similar to Housing for the Elderly)

      ENERGY AND UTILITIES:

      Low Income Home Energy Assistance
      Universal Service Fund Subsidized Phone Service
      Weatherization

      EDUCATION:

      Pell Grants

      Title One Grants to Local Education Authorities

      21st Century Learning Centers (supports the creation of community learning centers that provide academic enrichment opportunities during non-school hours for children, particularly students who attend high-poverty and low-performing schools.)

      Supplemental Education Opportunity Grants (grants to help low-income undergraduate students)

      Adult Basic Education Grants
      Migrant education
      LEAP Formerly State Student Incentive Grant Program
      Education for Homeless Children and Youth

      Even Start (supports local family literacy projects that integrate early childhood education, adult literacy, parenting education, and interactive parent and child literacy activities )

      Aid for Graduate and Professional Study for Disadvantaged and Minorities

      TRAINING:

      TANF Work Activities and Training
      Job Corps
      Youth Opportunity Grants Formerly Summer Youth Employment

      Senior Community Service Employment
      WIA Adult Employment and Training formerly JTPA IIA Training for Disadvantaged Adults & Youth

      Food Stamp Employment and Training Program
      Foster Grandparents
      YouthBuild
      Migrant Training
      Native American Training

      SERVICES:

      Title XX Social Services Block Grant (the largest expenditures for services under the SSBG were for child care, foster care, and special services for the disabled)

      Community Service Block Grant (provides funds to alleviate the causes and conditions of poverty)

      Social Services for Refugees Asylees and Humanitarian Cases

      Safe and Stable Families (primary goals are to prevent the unnecessary separation of children from their families, improve the quality of care and services to children and their families, and ensure permanency for children by reuniting them with their parents, by adoption or by another permanent living arrangement.)

      CHILD CARE AND CHILD DEVELOPMENT:

      Maternal, Infants and Children Home Visitation (home visiting programs to improve health and development outcomes for at-risk children)

      Headstart
      Child Care and Development
      Childcare and Child Development Block Grant
      Childcare Entitlement to the States
      TANF Block Grant Child Care

      COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT:

      Community Development Block Grant and Related Development Funds

      Economic Development Administration (Dept of Commerce)

      Appalachian Regional Development

      Empowerment Zones, Enterprise Communities, Renewal Communities

      See:
      http://thf_media.s3.amazonaws.com/2012/pdf/ExaminingtheMeanstestedWelfareState.pdf

      http://www.heritage.org/research/testimony/2012/06/welfare-state-69-means-tested-programs-and-940-billion-in-annual-spending

      • HonestDebate1

        It sure takes a lot of words to explain away and defend our new welfare state.

        • the anti-Emily

          What’s the alternative to the welfare state–all those old and disabled people working at McDonalds or shining your shoes–or offering to wipe your butt for you? Or maybe they can raise your kids for you for 1.00 an hour.

          • fun bobby

            that all sounds pretty great and much better than paying them to sit at home and complain they are not getting big enough handouts

          • the anti-Emily

            I thought it would. Instead for advocating for self sufficiency you are advocating that they make you even fatter and lazier by doing more things that you really should be doing yourself.

          • fun bobby

            but then where would I find time for internet postings? if someone can do something for you cheaper than you could do it for yourself (and if you make $50 an hour it does not make sense to clean your house for an hour when you could work and pay someone else $20 an hour to do a better job) it makes sense to pay them to and benefits both parties.

          • HonestDebate1

            A safety net is fine, moral and just. A welfare state is un-American.

          • the anti-Emily

            If Americans can’t employ the majority of working age Americans due to demographics or labor-saving gains productivity gains, then, maybe, the American experiment is over.

          • HonestDebate1

            Do you seriously believe half of America cannot provide for themselves?

          • the anti-Emily

            Where’s your evidence to support your assertion that are enough living wage jobs for the current working age population? Try not to use teaching jobs, clerical jobs, and retail in your rebuttal.

          • HonestDebate1

            I don’t accept your premise. I did not say the jobs were there. Obama killed them but new one can be created. Jobs come from someone putting their money at risk for a future profit. This administration discourages that. A living wage is a meaningless phrase and a minimum wage hike hurts the poor.

            There is a world of opportunity out there in the global marketplace. It’s pretty fatalistic to assume half of America has no choice but to live off of the other half.

          • the anti-Emily

            The is a world of opportunity for the smart and talented–which never make up the majority of a work force anywhere. I hope you really aren’t delusional enough to think everyone realistically has a chance to become affluent in the global economy.

            Most of America is at the mercy of the top 20%. It’s not like they can go back to the family farm if getting a fancy white collar job in the city doesn’t work out.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            “affluent”?
            Depends on your definition. But most can be self sufficient.

            May I recommend “The Richest Man in Babylon” It is timeless.

            http://www.amazon.com/Richest-Man-Babylon-Success-Ancients/dp/1607960664

          • HonestDebate1

            I said self sufficient, not affluent. There is opportunity for everyone. There are plenty of dumb untalented people that can pay their own bills, I’m one.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            “demographics or labor-saving gains productivity gains”

            Hmmm. You left off 8 million working illegal immigrants in the US (source Pew).

      • OnPointComments

        As the linked article clearly states in the second paragraph, an individual is counted as a beneficiary of a means-tested program if they reside in a household where someone receives benefits.

        • hennorama

          OPC – indeed the linked article stated that, AFTER the false “Welfare” headline, and just before quoting the Heritage Foundation’s redefined “welfare” list.

          And of course, no comparative information whatsoever is presented, to give the reader perspective, or to determine if this is a new phenomenon. The author merely states her opinion that “Clearly, this is a huge problem.”

          As I said, interesting but misleading, and with a false headline.

  • OnPointComments

    CBS “60 Minutes” this Sunday night: Lara Logan interviews a British citizen who witnessed the attack on the U.S. Special Mission in Benghazi that killed Ambassador Christopher Stevens and three others — the first Western eyewitness to speak of the incident. Morgan Jones, the pseudonym used by the security man hired to train guards at the embassy, tells his story for the first time to Logan for a 60 Minutes report on the attack to be broadcast on Sunday, Oct. 27 at 7 p.m. ET/PT.

    “First Western eyewitness to Benghazi terror attack”
    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57609235/first-western-eyewitness-to-benghazi-terror-attack/

    Hmmm. A non-US government employee. I guess our government couldn’t keep him quiet like they have the others. Since he’s not CIA, the post-Benghazi nondisclosure agreements won’t work.

    • OnPointComments

      What difference, at this point, does it make? Someone exhibited terrible judgment when they decided on the security for the Benghazi facility. There has never been an adequate explanation why the people in Benghazi were abandoned and help wasn’t sent. No one has paid any price for these mistakes, other than those who were killed. It matters.

  • pete18
    • harverdphd

      Ray in vt still suffers from the depression that many losers suffered after Bush’s second win

    • OnPointComments

      With the pervasive epidemic of Koch Derangement Syndrome, especially on here, you’d think that some of the commenters would confess to us “I was going to vote for X, but all that Koch money tricked me into voting for Y,” yet no one makes this confession, nor can they identify anyone else whose vote was changed. Odd. I guess that’s where the ‘derangement’ part comes in.

      • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

        In the music world they call it:
        “Who bought all those Spice Girls records?”

  • fun bobby

    I bet that fat guy has all sorts of tweets about people he sees on the train

  • Don_B1

    They are largely blinded by hate of President Obama and a huge fear of what the PPACA’s success will mean for their election prospects in the future, unless they drop their “No On Taxes” and “No On Sex” or “Keep Women Barefoot and Pregnant in the Home” election issues.

  • Joachim110

    This week i watched the documentary on the Antibiotics problem which is a serious and growing problem for this country and the world. The inability to produce working Antibiotics and being in a war against bacteria which we cannot win without is neglected by the administration. They asked Sibelius to comment and she refused which shows to me that this Secretary of Health and Human services is incompetent and does lack the understanding and skills to deals with our health issues. The website is a rather minor problem that can be fixed, the antibiotics problem which is grave and life threatening to everybody cannot be fixed easily. Where is the administration to address this and to have competent MInisters that are able to deal with this?

    • OnPointComments

      Nobody has ever claimed that Kathleen Sebelius is competent.

      “In most great U.S. corporations, if an executive had three years to roll out the product on which the company’s future might depend, and delivered this debacle, he would be gone. Panic would ensue. Emergency meetings of the board would be held to determine if more heads should roll and who should be brought in to save the company.

      “Outside of government, people routinely pay for their mistakes. Inside, there is often no penalty, no price, no punishment for failure. To Obama, a mess that has members of his own party calling for suspending Obamacare for a year is just the result of “glitches.” Still good enough for government work.

      “Sebelius remains at her post despite manifest incompetence for reasons both ideological and political. She is a pro-choice Catholic, a feminist, an early Obamaite, a crony of the president, an apparatchik of the Party of Government. She is a queen in Obamaland.”

      http://www.humanevents.com/2013/10/25/a-queen-in-obamaland/

      • HonestDebate1

        There’s something about the oxymoronic phrase “pro-choice Catholic” that seems a bit off.

      • JGC

        What is wrong with being a feminist?

    • HonestDebate1

      She is arrogant and clueless enough to say she doesn’t work for the people calling for her to be fired. Yes she does. I think the final straw should have been when she was shaking down businesses that she could affect from her perch for money.

      • fun bobby

        her nick name should be brownie

        • JGC

          or maybe fun kathy

          • fun bobby

            perhaps she has been drunk the last three years. she has been spending our money like a drunken sailor

          • JGC

            No, a drunken sailor would be in the Department of Defense, not HHS.

          • fun bobby

            its a simile. perhaps you don’t have that phrase in Canada. when does you seal clubbing season start up there?

    • JGC

      If you want to be totally honest, this problem (antibiotics resistance and development of new antibiotics) has almost nothing to do with Ms. Sebelius. It is a construct of the perceived reliance on the private sector to recognize opportunities (gaps) in the health care system and assume they are always willing actors to fill those gaps. As was explained in the documentary, antibiotics have been very effective in quickly controlling and eliminating short-term medical emergencies (at least until fairly recently). But drug companies make their bread and butter from developing compounds that can be administered for longterm, chronic diseases that need drugs to be refilled every month from your local pharmacy, for years, for forever. And when those drugs eventually go “off patent”, the original drug company must find a better drug, or more likely, a slightly different delivery system that results in a new patent without actually providing a truly better drug. And at the same time, there are many, many small drug companies whose only raison d’être is to manufacture copycats of the recent off-patent drugs. They do not do any basic research and development duties at all.

      It all then falls on to the government research entities to perform this task. But there have been no increases to government healthcare research for years. In fact, there have only been cuts to their budget, due to the sequester. Maybe Sebelius could request the NIH move more of their restricted budget to antibiotic research. But that would be at the expense of cancer research or multiple sclerosis research or name any disease – they each have a constituency.

  • TFRX

    “Relying on The Wall Street Journal edit page and Red Alert Politics for facts is a really bad idea.”

    CNBC’s Maria Baritomo: Just another example of someone whose career as a “journalist” somehow turned into making an audition reel for Fox News.

    http://www.cjr.org/the_audit/audit_notes_zombie_lies_and_re.php

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/oct/22/maria-bartiromo/bartiromo-says-obamacare-turning-us-part-time-empl/

    • HonestDebate1

      Bogus. I understand the difference between correlation and causation and the danger of conflating them but it’s ridiculous to say Obamacare is not turning us into a part time economy. The Politifact piece suggest the reason is a lackluster economy. Obama care is a huge reason for the lackluster economy.

      Relying on Politifact for facts is a really bad idea. They even had to admit their lie of the year, their lie of the year (!), was not lie.

      • TFRX

        Obamacare, in advance, a reason?

        You really gotta give everyone else that time machine you’re using.

        • HonestDebate1

          I’m too dumb to understand your question.

  • davecm

    “Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity”

    When the Govt. hangs out another Govt. teet, massive lies are told and thus follows ignorance and stupidity.

    The Affordable Care Act is a prime example!!!
    Obama “promised” “Let me be exactly clear about what health care reform means to you,” Obama said at one rally in July 2009. “First of all, if you’ve got health insurance, you like your doctors, you like your plan, you can keep your doctor, you can keep your plan. Nobody is talking about taking that away from you.”

    The truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    * estimated 16 Million to lose coverage due to Obamacare
    * 300,000 to lose present coverage in Florida.
    * 279,000 to lose present coverage in California.
    * In Philadelphia, BCBS is dropping 45% of its people.

    How many people are signing up???????
    * Huff Post states that white house states 467,000 have applied for Obamacare as of 7 days ago! Great! people are finally going to be paying for their own healthcare expenses.
    * CBS News reports, 80% of Healthcare enrollees are signing up for Medicaid, or!!! going to get it free!

    SO! Obamacare looks to be just another Democratic screwup!
    But!!!!! guess who is getting the blame?????
    My guess is, this is all a plot by someone? who is herding all the masses into the single payer, socialist direction.
    We shall see!!!

    • HonestDebate1

      Obama is on record saying he wants a single-payer system but we can’t get there all at once, hence his dastardly plan.

      • JGC

        I will give you an upvote, because I always like it when someone can use the word “dastardly”.

        • HonestDebate1

          Hat tip Snidely Whiplash.

    • hennorama

      davecm – thank you as always for your enthusiastic punctuation.

      Please tell everyone how these number compare to what usually happens at this time of year, when employers notify their employees of changes being made to their health insurance plans, such as changing providers, and/or reducing the number and scope of the benefit plans offered.

      Please come back early next year with an update on how many of those “losing coverage” simply switched to another plan, and how many actually wound up with no health insurance whatsoever.

      I’m sure the conservative media will be keeping track and reporting on that, right?

      • HonestDebate1

        16 million people do not lose their coverage every year.

        • JGC

          And almost 50 million never had their coverage to begin with.

          • HonestDebate1

            But that number includes illegals, those who were already covered by other entitlements (Medicaid, disability, etc) and those who made plenty enough money to afford insurance but chose not to have it.

      • davecm

        Example

        I have talked to several of my friends and saw one actual letter from BCBS that stated, due to the requirements set by Obamacare, as of Jan. 1, if you want the same policy it will cost you 2X more in cost with 2-3X increase in out-of-pocket expense.
        Another person I talked to, stated his company just informed them they are dropping employer sponsored insurance for them.
        The Affordable Care Act requires a minimum standard of benefits for employer-sponsored health plans. Many of these do not meet the minimum standard, so they drop you and tell you to go get your own insurance!My place of work has informed us that in 2014, the BCBS that I have payed into for 35 yrs. may be history. Going to another plan, cheaper for single coverage, higher than what I pay now for family coverage. This is not just yearly changes in my existing plan, but!!! a whole new, more expensive, different insurance company all together. I am not in sincere ignorance or conscientious stupidity, only the reality of Obamacare and a dependent minded society who wants Govt. to care for them from cradle to grave!

        • hennorama

          davecm – Thank you for your response.

          This sort of thing happens every year.

          Your anecdotal information is interesting, and one hopes you resolve your health insurance issues soon. As you of course realize, the length of time you have been a BCBS customer has no bearing whatsoever on whether they will or will not renew your policy.

          Returning to what you described as “The truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!” in your original post:

          Assuming the 16 million figure is accurate, this means that of the Census-estimated 263,165,000 people covered by private and/or government health insurance, 247,165,000 are unaffected by policy cancellation issues. This is nearly 94 percent of those already covered by health insurance.

          That leaves about 6 percent who are affected.

          As a recent article on businessinsider.com explains, the likely reason for health insurance policy cancellations are:

          1. Some old plans don’t meet new requirements under the ACA.
          2. Some existing plans have especially sick participant pools, so insurers want to end them.

          Some insurers deny reason 2. above. However, according to kaiserhealthnews.org, “They may be “doing this as an opportunity to push their populations into the exchange and purge their systems” of policyholders they no longer want, said Jerry Flanagan, an attorney with the advocacy group Consumer Watchdog in California.”

          Sources:
          http://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/p60-245.pdf
          http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-why-so-many-americans-are-getting-letters-saying-their-health-insurance-is-canceled-2013-10#ixzz2irDfCByV
          http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2013/October/21/cancellation-notices-health-insurance.aspx

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            “due to the requirements set by Obamacare”

            This happens every year? Hmmm, must of missed that.

          • hennorama

            WftC — TY for your response.

            I wrote “This sort of thing happens every year,” echoing my earlier comment about “what usually happens at this time of year, when employers notify their employees of changes being made to their health insurance plans, such as changing providers, and/or reducing the number and scope of the benefit plans offered,” from my original post.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Understood. But this time the President made what turns out to be several ‘inconvenient’ promises, including:
            -”if you like your health insurance, you can keep it”
            -”no one will lose their doctor”
            -”the typical family will pay $2500 less every year”

            Was it an intentional ‘bait and switch”? Even if it was unintentional shouldn’t these broken promises that were used to pass this monstrosity be addressed?

          • hennorama

            WftC – TY again for your response.

            You were SOOOO close to being impartial in your questions, until “this monstrosity.”

            Perhaps we can say these “promises” were simply “inelegantly stated.” They have also been misquoted.

            A bit of background on “if you like your health insurance, you can keep it.”

            On August 11th, 2009, President Obama said “If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan,” which is quoted here, in politifact.com:

            http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/aug/11/barack-obama/barack-obama-promises-you-can-keep-your-health-ins/

            As the article above points out, President Obama had discussed this concept earlier, at a press conference on June 23, 2009. This is part of an exchange with Jake Tapper, FTA (in brackets, due to the internal quotes):

            [Jake Tapper's hypothetical

            [Back to Tapper's question: If the public option is cheapest, Tapper said, "then lots of employers will want to have their employees covered by that cheaper plan, which will not have to be for-profit, unlike private plans, and may, possibly, benefit from some government subsidies, who knows. And then their employees would be signed up for this public plan, which would violate what you're promising the American people, that they will not have to change health care plans if they like the plan they have."

            [So Tapper is suggesting that many employers will be allowed onto the exchange and will pick the public option, which would clearly change some people's health plans.

            [Here is the core of Obama's somewhat lengthy answer: "When I say if you have your plan and you like it, or you have a doctor and you like your doctor, that you don't have to change plans, what I'm saying is the government is not going to make you change plans under health reform. ... Let's say that we take the advice of some folks who are out there and say, 'Oh, this is not the time to do health care. We can't afford it. It's too complicated. Let's take our time,' et cetera. So let's assume that nothing happened. I can guarantee you that there's the possibility for a whole lot of Americans out there that they're not going to end up having the same health care they have. Because what's going to happen is, as costs keep on going up, employers are going to start making decisions: 'We've got to raise premiums on our employees. In some cases, we can't provide health insurance at all.' And so there are going to be a whole set of changes out there. That's exactly why health reform is so important."]

            The President was pointing out how employers and insurers had been adapting over time, by choosing different insurers and health care providers/doctors, and putting more costs onto the employee, and dropping health insurance benefits altogether.

            That’s the context of the issue, and what is happening now is similar to what happened every year prior to passage of the PPACA.

            As to the final “promise” from your post, here are the actual quotes, with emphasis added:

            Senator Barack Obama, June 23, 2007: “I will sign a universal health care bill into law by the end of my first term as president that will cover every American and cut the cost of a typical family’s premium BY UP TO $2,500 a year.”

            Senator Barack Obama, June 5, 2008: “In an Obama administration, we’ll lower premiums BY UP TO $2,500 for a typical family per year.”

            President Obama, May 13, 2009: “Coupled with comprehensive reform, this could result in our nation saving over $2 trillion over the next 10 years, and that COULD save families $2,500 in the coming years — $2,500 per family.”

            One thing is clear, however – the cost curve is bending. Health care spending has been increasing at much lower rates, which is a good thing. Whether or not this is due to the PPACA is far from certain, as the Great Recession certainly had some impact, and the trend has been in place for some time. Per a recent (OCT. 11 2013) slate.com article,

            “Since 2006, real per capita spending growth has averaged 1.9 percent per year, compared with an average of 4.9 percent per year between 1960 and 2006. If this trend is sustained, total savings will be substantial; recent estimates suggest that if current lower growth rates continue, total U.S. spending will be $770 billion lower between 2011 and 2021 compared with the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid’s previous forecasts.”

            Sources:
            http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/521/cut-cost-typical-familys-health-insurance-premium-/
            http://www.factcheck.org/2013/09/factchecking-pernicious-obamacare-claims/
            http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Statement-by-the-President-after-meeting-with-House-Democratic-leadership/
            http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/american_prosperity_consensus/2013/10/american_prosperity_consensus_are_health_care_costs_the_most_important_challenge.html

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Monstrosity? Well, you know how I feel about ‘pages’ and the volumes of ancillary regulations created by faceless, nameless bureaucrats.

          • hennorama

            WftC — I certainly hope those “monstrous” people you described have faces, and I’m confident that they have names.

            As I said, you were close, and that was in fact appreciated. I mean … we are discussing government work after all, so “close” is expected, right?

    • hennorama

      davecm — as pointed out below, 94 percent of people covered by private and/or government health insurance (247,165,000 people) seem to be unaffected by policy cancellation issues.

      That’s a solid A grade on that issue.

    • JGC

      Did you lose your coverage this month due to Obamacare?

  • tbphkm33

    Why not…

    • fun bobby

      when did we get a right to a car? when did the feds start mandating any of those things? are you saying we need a federal DMV?
      you know that we basically have all those things in MA and if you want them in your state you can have them there too? do you wait 9 months and have to kiss some bureaucrats behind to get a drivers license if they feel like giving you one?

    • hennorama

      tbphkm33 — If guns were as regulated as cars:

      Blind people in Iowa wouldn’t be able to get gun permits, to name just the most recent nonsensical fact.

      “Iowa granting gun permits to the blind”

      See:
      http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/08/iowa-granting-gun-permits-to-blind/

      • WorriedfortheCountry

        See SNL toy maker Irving Mainway

        “invisible pedestrian” .. disclaimer “not for blind kids”

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3dq9dxEf2c

        • hennorama

          WftC — I had nearly forgotten about those hilarious SNL skits. I particularly enjoyed “Bag O’Glass,” about which Mainway says “We’re just packaging what the kids want. It’s a creative toy.”

          Label: Kid – Be careful – Broken Glass

      • HonestDebate1

        Just as long as they don’t let them drive cars, I’m fine with it.

        • fun bobby

          I doubt they could pass the road test. half the people driving in fla are blind

        • JGC

          Once Google gets finished with the approval process of their self-driving cars, it won’t matter who is behind the wheel.

          • HonestDebate1

            Touche.

      • OnPointComments

        Personally, I don’t have a problem with blind people having guns. I’m sure that if I heard someone trying to break down my bedroom door in the middle of the night, in the pitch-black dark, I could use my gun to dissuade them even if I couldn’t see them.

        • hennorama

          OPC — FYI: these permits are for concealed public carrying of a firearm, not simply home defense.

          Just a teeny bit different, don’t you agree?

          • HonestDebate1

            No difference.

      • fun bobby

        what other disabled people are you prejudice against? is it just the blind?
        why not link to the bur article? there are some great comments from blind iowans

        • hennorama

          fun bobby — to begin with, I do not characterize blind people as “disabled.” Sorry to read that you do.

          Secondly, I have no prejudice against the blind.

          However, issuing firearms permits to blind people gives a whole new meaning to “firing blind.” These are concealed carry permits, not simply to keep a firearm at home, for home defense, or for hunting purposes.

          As you seem to be informed on the topic — are there any permit restrictions in Iowa if you are both blind and deaf?

          And you can post any link you wish to, sir. Please feel free.

          • fun bobby

            ask one of the blind Iowans who weighed in. I am sure they would be happy to inform you. I am not from there. in MA there are no such restrictions besides the ones that can be used to prevent anyone from exercising their rights if they live in the wrong town.I believe differently abled people have the same rights as all adults to bear arms for individual personal defense outside the home I am sorry you think you are qualified to tell them what they cannot do.

    • HonestDebate1

      Where in the Constitution does it say the right of the people to keep and drive a car shall not be infringed?

      • WorriedfortheCountry

        I’m waiting for the chart that compares gun rights to voting rights — like photo ID required.

        • HonestDebate1

          Perfect!

          • John Cedar

            BAZINGA!
            /^ /^/ ^/^ /^

        • John Cedar

          Obviously you are a racist.

  • OnPointComments

    Nothing in this story surprises me. It doesn’t surprise me that the White House Deputy Chief of Staff lied, and that there are no consequences that he has to face for telling the lie. It doesn’t surprise me that senior Democrats then repeated the lie without verifying it.

    WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF TOLD DURBIN, OTHERS ABOUT ERRONEOUS RUDE GOP COMMENT
    http://thelead.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/24/white-house-deputy-chief-of-staff-told-durbin-others-about-erroneous-rude-gop-comment/

    “…[the story that a] senior House Republican leader during negotiations over the debt ceiling and partial government shutdown told President Obama, “I cannot even stand to look at you,” made its way from the White House to the Senate via White House deputy chief of staff Rob Nabors, sources tell CNN.

    “Nabors told the story to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada, Durbin, and the two other Senate Democratic leaders, Sen. Chuck Schumer of New York and Sen. Patty Murray of Washington, on Tuesday October 15, sources tell CNN. Reid then told the story to the entire Senate Democratic caucus, sources in the room at the time tell CNN, identifying the House Republican leader as Rep. Pete Sessions, R-Texas, who denies the story. Durbin posted it on his campaign Facebook page without mentioning Sessions’ name.

    “Sessions isn’t the only one who denies it; on Wednesday White House press secretary Jay Carney was asked about it at his daily briefing and said, “I looked into it and spoke with somebody who was in the meeting and it did not happen.”

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Harry Reid on the Senate floor regarding Mitt Romney’s taxes:

      “So the word is out that he has not paid any taxes for 10 years.”

      • OnPointComments

        Harry Reid should have been subpoenaed, put under oath, and forced to say where he got the confidential information on Mitt Romney’s tax returns, disclosure of which is a felony if it came from the IRS, or more likely, that he knew he was lying when he made the statement.

      • HonestDebate1

        But no, he paid no price at all.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Journalism is dead during the Obama regime.

    Another no-bid contract?
    “Company behind Obamacare website in charge of nearly $2 billion in Sandy relief”

    Don’t worry their management of Sandy relief funds has been equally stellar.

    “The Associated Press revealed Tuesday that a mere $700 million of the $60 billion federal aid package – 1.2 percent of the total funds – has been given to victims of super storm Sandy.”

    Time to follow the money.

    http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/26/company-behind-obamacare-website-in-charge-of-nearly-2-billion-in-sandy-relief/

  • HonestDebate1

    “If You Like Your Health Plan, You Can Keep It Act.”

    http://www.ronjohnson.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=dac03716-ba8c-4997-b1ea-58c3ffca84ef

    This is brilliant, will Obama veto it?

    • OnPointComments

      But if the health plans aren’t canceled, how will the elderly get maternity and pediatric coverage?

      • HonestDebate1

        Someone needs to introduce a bill that states if your premium does not go down then you pay no fine.

      • JGC

        And did you lose your healthcare provider this month?

    • JGC

      Did you lose your healthcare provider this month?

      • HonestDebate1

        No, not my provider but I lost my plan and my post menopausal wife will now have maternity coverage. Our cost will go up considerably.

  • davecm

    U.S. Marines turn up noses at Obama’s new ‘girly’ hats; some fear it looks too French
    We don’t even have enough funding to buy bullets and the DoD [Department of Defense] is pushing to spend $8 million on covers that look like women’s hats,” one senior marine said to The New York Post. “The Marines deserve better. It makes them look ridiculous.”

    And they stopped the $100,000 death benefit during the shutdown for our fallen, a political move?
    Yet! we can spend tons of money tapping into EVERYBODY”S phone all OVER the world!
    For convenience, let us blame it on BUSH!

    • OnPointComments

      The hats are just more government foolishness. News reports stated that no one wants them. WSJ reported “In 2002, the Female Uniform Symposium decided the current women’s cap needed redesign because it was expensive and many complained it was not as spiffy as the male version.” So the hat has been discussed for a decade. A DECADE. Is it any wonder that people question the sanity of government?

    • TFRX

      Girly hats?

      You really have nothin better than regurgiate the vomit from Foxholers and the NYP?

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    “vacuous cipher”

    “Delamaide believes the term “vacuous cipher” that was applied to Jarrett stung so much because it could be used as a metaphor for the administration in general.”

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/362203/obamas-valerie-jarrett-often-whispered-about-never-challenged-john-fund

    • OnPointComments

      A person is known by the company he keeps. I don’t remember ever reading a favorable article about Valerie Jarrett, or for that matter, David Plouffe. Yet these two seem to hold much sway with President Obama.

  • jefe68

    The regressive right clown show is really giving it all this weekend. They do have some hard acts to follow though…

    • HonestDebate1

      Then rebut them on the merits and put them in their place.

      • Mike_Card

        Their arguments have no merit!

        • HonestDebate1

          Then it should be easy.

          • Mike_Card

            You can’t argue with stupid–the rules won’t apply.

      • jefe68

        Nah, they make huge fools of themselves all on their own. Especially Bachman.

        • fun bobby

          bachman must be a tragic victim of that hpv vaccine

    • pete18

      Six more drinks, I’m getting dizzy.

      • jefe68

        Well, it is the regressive clown party…
        Down the hatch.

        • pete18

          For the love of god, buy yourself a thesaurus before I end up in AA.

          • jefe68

            Grow up frat boy. You’re act is tired, lame and juvenile.

          • pete18

            I can only yearn for the day that I reach the level of sophistication, maturity, originality and word play that you display in your daily name calling and non-arguments. Maybe if I can find some clown noses to paste on pictures of Obama, Pelosi, Biden and Reed.

          • HonestDebate1

            It’s funny as hell. I just uncorked a bottle of cabernet in Pete’s honor.

          • pete18

            Cheers!

    • fun bobby

      drink! I am right you decided on regressive right wing for today?

  • OnPointComments

    President Obama: “The American people are going to make a judgment on who’s going to bring the country together and who’s dividing it…Who reflects the core values that helped create this country…and who is tapping in to some of our worst instincts.”

    Has President Obama brought more unity to the US? I think the answer is clearly “no.” He divides the country at every opportunity, and uses nearly every speech to vilify and demonize one group or another. His own Deputy Chief of Staff spreads lies designed to deepen the partisan divide. And perhaps one result of dividing the country is the subject of Thomas Sowell’s column.

    Race-Hustling Results: Part III
    http://www.creators.com/opinion/thomas-sowell.html

    “More dangerous than these highly publicized episodes [of reactions to trial verdicts] over the years are innumerable organized and unprovoked physical attacks on whites by young black gangs in shopping malls, on beaches and in other public places all across the country today.

    “Even when these attacks are accompanied by shouts of anti-white rhetoric and exultant laughter at the carnage, the racial makeup of the attackers and their victims is usually ignored by the media, and public officials often deny that race has anything to do with what happened.”

    • hennorama

      OPC — this excrement, AGAIN? Seriously?

      • OnPointComments

        Which is it you don’t like this time, the website again? The font?

        • hennorama

          OPC – I find every single execrable word in Mr. Sowell’s “race war” screed to be objectionable.

          One supposes that sales of the self-published book, by an author who makes the rounds of the white nationalist/separatist/supremacist groups, have fallen, and this is an attempt by Sowell to increase them.

          As you have quoted Mr. Sowell, please be so kind as to define the term “Race-Hustling.“ It does not appear in any standard dictionary, so your assistance is politely requested.

          As to your quote of President Obama, from an interview with Diane Sawyer from Jan. 26, 2012, in response to her questioning about Newt Gingrich’s remarks describing President Obama as the “food stamp President,” let’s review what the President said:

          “First of all, I don’t put people on food stamps,” Obama said. “People become eligible for food stamps. Second of all, the initial expansion of food-stamp eligibility happened under my Republican predecessor, not under me. Number 3, when you have a disastrous economic crash that results in 8 million people losing their jobs, more people are going to need more support from government.”

          AND

          “What the American people are going be interested in is not these kinds of rhetorical flourishes What they’re going to be interested in is – ‘Who actually has a plan that makes my life better.’ “

          AND

          “I think the American people are going to make a judgment about who’s trying to bring the country together and who’s dividing it, who reflects the core values that helped create this country. Values of hard work and responsibility but also looking out for one another and who is tapping into some of our worst instincts. And you know that’s ultimately going to be a judgment for the American people.”

          We know what the ultimate judgment was.

          You can view the exchange in the video (from about 2:45 to 4:30) here:
          http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/president-obama-exclusive-interview-term-badly/story?id=15451734

          • pete18

            I think it must be the Font.

          • OnPointComments

            From the Urban Dictionary: A term coined to describe those individuals of a particular race who project themselves into the media spotlight as spokespersons whenever there is an alleged racial incident which involves their race. The use of the word “Hustler”, included as a part of the term, also implies that these individuals exploit a racial situation to serve their own interests. Think Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

            Luckily, Thomas Sowell has written an article about race-hustling: The Bad Fruits of Race Hustling http://www.nationalreview.com/article/361818/bad-fruits-race-hustling-thomas-sowell

            My bet is that if the races in Dr. Sowell’s article were reversed, you’d find the article less objectionable.

          • hennorama

            OPC – thank you for the attempt, and your losing bet.

            Mr. Sowell’s “race war” screed is complete an utter bunkum.

          • OnPointComments

            At least now you know what a race hustler is. I presume that you persist in calling Dr. Sowell “Mr. Sowell” to show your disrespect for him. Liberals always attack any African American who dares to not parrot the liberal line.

          • hennorama

            OPC — more nonsense, and another mountain being made of a molehill.

            I was not actively aware that Thomas Sowell is a Doctor, and now that I am, I will in future refer to him as such.

            In addition, I am not a liberal, unless of course you define the term to mean “anyone who disagrees with me.”

          • OnPointComments

            I heard a presidential speech writer say that we should always pay attention to the words. He said that when the Obama administration said that thousands had signed up for the ACA, they would have said “tens of thousands” if they could have. Watch the words.

            Were you passively aware that Thomas Sowell is a doctor?

          • hennorama

            OPC – thank you for your response.

            I certainly meant no disrespect toward Dr. Sowell by referring to him as “Mr.,” which in itself is far more respectful than simply using his last name.

            Upon further review, prior to this series of comments, I have referred to this individual as both Mr. Sowell (four times), and Dr. Sowell (once). Clearly the “Dr.” title did not sink in.

            I am fairly habitual in using proper titles, and you will find that I routinely use the common Mr./Mrs./Ms. titles, as well as President, Senator, Representative, Governor, etc.

            Unfortunately, Dr. Sowell’s title escaped me.

            Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

          • HonestDebate1

            You do realize Sowell was born a poor black kid who didn’t believe blond hair existed because he never saw white people don’t you?

            Your baseless accusation that he frequents white nationalist/separatist/supremacist groups is obscene. Apologize immediately.

  • OnPointComments

    I think Senator Paul’s proposals make a lot of sense.

    SENATOR RAND PAUL: A LONG-NEEDED CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT
    Congress must live by the same rules they impose on the nation
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/24/paul-no-one-is-above-the-law-but-congress/

    ● “Congress shall make no law applicable to a citizen of the United States that is not equally applicable to Congress.”
    ● “Read the Bills” resolution would forbid voting on legislation until each bill is posted online and the Senate has been in session for at least one day for each 20 pages.
    ● The time for term limits has come, and in fact, is long overdue.

  • tbphkm33

    As the Tea Baggers spend their weekend attacking the On Point discussion board… lets pause and reflect back to October 26, 2008 – the waning days of the impostor “Presidents” GW’s administration.

    GW and his band of rightwing nut jobs had engaged in two wars adventurism, Iraq alone was costing the U.S. Treasury over $1 billion a month… but most importantly, they had managed to tank the entire economy. It turned out to be a rightwing sponsored Great Recession, but could as easily have become another Great Depression… and may yet develop into a depression as the economy drags on like a half dead horse.

    The Nopublican “Party” (increasingly more irrelevant) has in the past five years only proven than they are less-and-less capable of leading the United States. You have to be one step away from the nut house to think that this band of extremists has the best interests of the country in mind.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Wow….someone is having a tough week.

      Could this finally be the “blame Bush” death rattle? After 5 long years?

      • HonestDebate1

        When all else fails (and it has), blame Bush.

      • fun bobby

        why stop now. I am sure the robot apocalypse will be bush’s fault somehow

  • pete18

    The evil Fox news, doing the job that the other mainstream outlets reuse to.Megyn Kelly grilling Ezekiel Emanuel on the lies of Obamacare:

    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/10/lies-of-obamacare-4.php

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Boy, he was incredibly rude. Hard to believe he was raised in the same household as Rahm…..

      Oh… never mind.

  • HonestDebate1

    I know y’all don’t care but I’m going to tell you about my day anyway, indulge me.

    We have a intercollegiate dressage competition here at the farm tomorrow. There will be 5 or 6 universities competing. As the host team, the Appalachian State girls were here all day riding the horses (every team will use our horses) and generally spiffing things up and getting ready.

    This morphed into a halloween party for the barn kids and their families. Even the horses wore costumes. We bobbed for apples. We had a scavenger hunt. We had a haunted trail through the woods down to the creek complete with tombstones, writhing hands coming out of the ground, blood, bats, skeletons and a horse skull. We grilled hot dogs, burgers and veggie burgers. The night ended with a huge bonfire, huge. It’s still burning and I’ll check on it through the night. I also made a smaller fire for roasting marshmallows and making smores. We told ghost stories. I did a dramatic reading of “Hotel California” which with a few evil belly laughs translates to horror better than you might think. The kids were scared and the parents thought it was funny.

    There were probably 60 or 70 people here. There were 7 or 8 dogs frolicking and vacuuming up every scrap of food dropped. There is nothing like the sound of kids laughing uncontrollably. There is nothing like the fellowship of community. This is America.

    No point really.

    • JGC

      My son is going to his Halloween horse competition tomorrow. He is not doing the costume contest, but in addition to the regular jumping competitions, he will participate in a version of “Simon Says”, all on horseback. It is amazing to see twenty kids on twenty horses all responding to the Simon commands. After the ribbons are awarded, there will be a potluck supper. I know he would like the ghost story and haunted woods aspect, if it were possible.

      • HonestDebate1

        That’s a great idea, thanks for the tip. We have an instructor whose horse is named Simon, maybe she could call the game from his back.

        • JGC

          Yes, the caller makes requests like “Touch the left hind quarters”, “Simon says pat the withers” “Simon says trot” “Touch the right ear” “Walk”. It apparently also teaches balance and agility as the kids have to stretch to reach the horse parts, even while the horse is still moving.

    • TFRX

      Good on ya to do this.

      (Do the fans paint their faces like at football games? Cos that’d be so cool.)

      • HonestDebate1

        Thanks TF. No, no face paint for the fans but maybe next year.

  • OnPointComments

    Apparently the truth does set you free, in a sense…

    WHITE HOUSE DECLARES OBAMACARE TRUTH TELLING A FIRING OFFENSE
    http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/102513-676780-white-house-fires-obamacare-phone-operator-for-telling-truth.htm

    “Accountability: To date, no one in the Obama administration has been fired for the Hindenburg-like Affordable Care Act. Oh, wait, there is one: The lowly telephone operator who told the truth about it to Fox News’ Sean Hannity.

    “One can be forgiven for wondering if this White House has some wimpy aversion to firing anyone, given the scale of unpunished blundering seen in the Benghazi attack, the IRS suppression of political dissent, the Fast and Furious gunrunning scandal and now the incompetence of the ObamaCare rollout.

    “But there does seem to be one offense where a red line has been drawn: telling the truth. That’s what cost ObamaCare telephone operator Earline Davis her job.”

    • hennorama

      OPC – what a bunch of nonsense.

      As Ms. Davis herself said, she was terminated from her private, non-governmental employment, for violating her employer’s policy prohibiting contact with the media:

      HANNITY: And what was the specific reason? When they sat you down, did they give you a specific reason?

      DAVIS: They said that no contact with the media. No type of media whatsoever. We’re not allowed to do that at that company.

      See:
      http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/10/24/obamacare_operator_fired_after_taking_call_from_hannity_hannity_to_give_her_a_years_salary.html

      Any other molehills you want to try to make into mountains?

      • fun bobby

        is that your exclusive domain?

      • OnPointComments

        Do you think President Obama called the company and asked that Earline Davis be allowed to keep her job? I mean, he took the time to telephone Sandra Fluke to console her, so surely making a call so that a single mother of two could keep her job wouldn’t be asking too much.

        • hennorama

          OPC — wow. You’re really reaching.

          An employee violated company policy and was terminated. Big deal.

          • OnPointComments

            I thought it would have been a compassionate gesture. After all, President Obama suggested that anyone who has questions should phone the call centers. Would you have criticized President Obama if he had made the call?

          • hennorama

            OPC — your opinion is noted.

            Had Ms, Davis spoken with President Obama, she would not have been in violation of the media contact restriction, as the President is not a member of the media.

            Sort of a silly question, wouldn’t you agree?

            This is a complete non-issue.

          • OnPointComments

            My point was that President Obama suggested that anyone with questions should call. He didn’t say “anyone, but not you Sean Hannity.” And my last sentence referred to President Obama making the call to the company to get Ms. Davis her job back.

          • hennorama

            OPC — thank you for your clarification.

            I don’t think it’s appropriate for any President to get involved in personnel matters at a private company, and would have expressed that opinion had the hypothetical circumstance you described occurred.

            I have no criticism of Mr. Hannity making the call or conducting the interview, as that is certainly within his purview.

            My sole criticism is with those, including Mr. Hannity, who are making this into something it clearly is not. Ms. Davis said she was terminated because her employer has a policy prohibiting any contact with the media. She clearly violated that policy. Case closed.

            Except in the conservative media, of course.

          • HonestDebate1

            Do you object to his targeting EIB (a private company) for criticism on a semi-regular basis?

          • HonestDebate1

            …or so you speculate.

      • HonestDebate1

        Bogus. That was after the incident when they realized they had let down dear leader. Ms. Davis told Hannity to call back after 42 hours and he did. This time (before it was known Ms. Davis was fired) the person gave Hannity the runaround. She said she’d transfer him to the supervisor, she said a bunch of stuff but she did not say it was against company policy. If you have evidence of their policy regarding this then present it but until then you are speculating wildly to defend the indefensible.

        You also keep reiterating it was a private company as if that is relevant. It’s not. What is relevant is that she was being paid with taxpayers money and therefore was working for the government.

    • TFRX

      IBD editorials?

      Hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!

  • JGC

    Who in the world would have thought that companies like UPS would throw their employees’ families under the Big Brown Bus, or stalwart healthcare insurance companies like Florida Blue would do likewise to their customers, and use the ACA as their welcome excuse?

    In times of distress, I turn to that compendium of wisdom, Gone with the Wind: (Rhett) …”What most people don’t seem to realize is that there is just as much money to be made out of the wreckage of a civilization as the upbuilding of one.”

    (Scarlett) “And what does all that mean?”

    (Rhett) “Your family and my family and everyone here tonight made their money out of changing a wilderness into civilization. That’s empire building. There’s good money to be made in empire building. But there is more money to be made in empire wrecking.”

    (Scarlett) “And what does all that mean?”

    (Rhett) “This empire we are living in – the South – the Confederacy – the Cotton Kingdom- is breaking upright under our feet…I’m making my fortune out of the wreckage.”

    • HonestDebate1

      Who would have thought it? Me, for one but it’s not rocket science. A lot of people predicted stuff like this but it was written off as hateful, racist Republican rhetoric.

    • fun bobby

      companies making decisions that make them money? who could have thunk it?

    • hennorama

      JGC – UPS is excluding spouses who can get health insurance coverage elsewhere, such as through their own employer..

      This is simply another example of what has been happening for years, as employers struggle with rising costs for health insurance/care benefits for their employees. Here’s are relevant excerpts from NPR’s Morning Edition, just after UPS announced the change (September 19, 2013):

      BEGIN EXCERPTS:

      So many employers are trying to cut back on health coverage for spouses that it has become a trend. The practice began well before the Affordable Care Act passed, and the connection to the law, in some cases, isn’t that direct.

      “About 12 percent of employers have this provision in their policies, says Tracy Watts, who heads the health care reform team at Mercer, a benefits consulting firm.

      Mercer surveyed employers who have some sort of restriction on health coverage of spouses, and found that about half of those employers, or 6 percent, have imposed a surcharge for spouses who could get coverage at their own jobs.

      “The other 6 percent exclude spouses who have coverage elsewhere,” Watts says. That’s the approach UPS is taking.

      So is the University of Virginia. Susan Carkeek, the university’s head of human resources, says the decision was mostly about simple arithmetic.

      “When medical expenses go up, which they have for us, then we have two choices: We can either increase premiums, or we can reduce what we pay out in the way of benefits,” Carkeek says.

      Carkeek says the decision was tangentially related to the health law, because every company’s health plan is going to pay some extra costs associated with new fees and other requirements next year. But the connection to the Affordable Care Act is slight.

      “The tendency has been to attribute all these changes to the ACA, but we would have been facing all of these changes anyway,” she says.

      AND

      “A decade ago a number of employers were looking at spouse surcharges for employee spouses who declined coverage with their employer,” she says.

      Stone says the idea lost popularity for a while, but now it’s making a comeback. She says there’s actually a quirk in the health law that allows for it.

      “Employers are not required to offer spouses coverage at all,” Stone says. “They’re required to offer dependent children, but not spouses.”

      But she says a wholesale dropping of coverage for spouses — even if those spouses could now get coverage through the new health care exchanges — isn’t what seems to be happening.

      “We’re not seeing employers saying, ‘I’m not going to change my plan rules, and I’m not going to cover spouses,’ ” she says. “The surcharge and the concept of a penalty for spouses who choose to opt out of their own employer coverage — that’s not related to the health care reform law at all.”

      The bottom line, say benefit experts, is that with health costs continuing to rise, employers are trying to make sure they’re running their health benefits programs as leanly as possible. And, for some, that means, not paying the claims of other employers’ workers.”

      END EXCERPTS

      Source:
      http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/09/19/223786934/employers-trim-health-costs-by-cutting-coverage-for-spouses

      • HonestDebate1
      • JGC

        It is a trend, and some companies are trying to use the ACA upheaval in the insurance industry as camouflage for what they were going to do anyway. And some of the insurers are closing plans to get rid of their higher risk pools or to bait and switch them to a more lucrative plan, under the guise of better coverage as per ACA guidelines. This even though there is the provision in the ACA that plans in place as of 23 March 2010 are grandfathered in under their existing coverage. As long as the plan has no changes made to it, the insurers can even sign up new enrollees AFTER the 23 March 2010 date.

        I don’t know why Florida Blue is closing their existing plan 522 on 1 Jan 2014, and switching those people to their new plan 1419P. Maybe 522 was a plan that was implemented after the 23 March 2010 deadline. Maybe I could send an e-mail to Charles Sartiano, VP, Consumer Membershio at Florida Blue and ask. But I have a feeling it could be a long wait for his answer, since there are probably around 300,000 e-mails in his in-box ahead of me.

        One thing is pretty clear: the insurance companies don’t want the poor and the (perceived to be) at risk populations, the employers don’t want them (and in fact would be very happy to get out of the insurance business altogether), and the Republican governors don’t want them.
        But we can’t leave 50-million or more people without access to affordable healthcare, and if the insurance industry cannot be incentivized to provide the coverage, that leaves the government to find the way to do it.

        • hennorama

          JGC — thank you for your thoughtful and well-informed response. I completely agree.

  • fun bobby

    say what you will about fox news but they employ more ex beauty queens than any other news station

    • OnPointComments

      Someone at Fox does seem to have a thing for attractive blondes.

      • fun bobby

        its not just leggy busty blonds on fox they also have some leggy busty brunettes. its part of their credo of fair and balanced

        • JGC

          How does Greta van Susteren fit in?

          • fun bobby

            they not only have busty blonds they have busted blonds as well

    • JGC
      • HonestDebate1

        They are so much more than pretty faces.

        • jefe68

          Yeah, their empty heads as well.

          • HonestDebate1

            Can you be more sexist?

      • fun bobby

        I was hoping that would be a pictorial

  • HonestDebate1

    I did a little searching and found this interview of a call representative (Maria) broadcast on CNN. Maria painted a rosy picture of the process, she said nothing negative about it. She was not fired. I hope this puts an end to the spurious wildly speculative claims about the policies of the hotline regarding on air interviews.

    Relevant exchange @ 1:40

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vVmvTkajhU

  • HonestDebate1

    For those who are clinging to the fantasy that Obamacare is not shifting America into a part-time economy:

    http://news.investors.com/politics-obamacare/101713-669013-obamacare-employer-mandate-a-list-of-cuts-to-work-hours-jobs.htm?fromcampaign=1

    • TFRX

      You really lead a rich fantasy life of your own.

      Please go back to when all jobs were 40 hours. You’ll need to time travel.

      • hennorama

        TFRX — a couple points of amplification:

        1. The vast majority of those who work part-time do so voluntarily. The most recent data (Sept. 2013) from the BLS shows that over 70 percent (18.967 Million workers) are working “Part time for noneconomic reasons*” and less than 30 percent (7.926 Million) are working “Part time for economic reasons*”

        2. The average annual hours worked (AAHW) by U.S. workers fell by about 200 hours between 1950 and 1980, a decline of more than 10 percent. From 1980 until the Great Recession hit, the AAHW was in a narrow range of 1710 to 1750. AAHW fell to about 1680 in 2009, and has recovered to more than 1700, just below the low end of the prior range.

        See:
        http://www.businessinsider.com/average-annual-hours-worked-for-americans-vs-the-rest-of-the-world-2013-8

        * Part time for noneconomic reasons “Refers to persons who usually work part time for noneconomic reasons such as childcare problems, family or personal obligations, school or training, retirement or Social Security limits on earnings, and other reasons. This excludes persons who usually work full time but worked only 1 to 34 hours during the reference week for reasons such as vacations, holidays, illness, and bad weather.”

        * Part time for economic reasons “Refers to those who worked 1 to 34 hours during the reference week for an economic reason such as slack work or unfavorable business conditions, inability to find full-time work, or seasonal declines in demand.”

        Source:
        http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t08.htm

      • jefe68

        You have to admit, he’s a source of amusement on one level.

      • HonestDebate1

        Who said that? There was never a time when part time work didn’t exist.

        • TFRX

          Keep JAQing it about how people didn’t have real jobs made part-time over the last quarter century.

          • HonestDebate1

            I didn’t say that either.

          • TFRX

            No, you never say anything.

            You just point to things that like-minded righties say (but never have to fess up to knowing any of them are racist, gay-bashing, bigoted and fake Christians).

            You keep JAQing it, and keep looking for your six or seven non-jackass Teabagger compadres. There’s a corner booth in a Friendly’s where you can all meet.

          • HonestDebate1

            Correction, NOBODY HAS SAID THAT!!!

          • pete18

            Straw men are he core of Obama’s debate tactics. It’s no surprise that his acolytes employ the same methods.

      • hennorama

        TFRX – another factor: more workers may choose to move from full-time to part-time work, as they will have greater access to health insurance coverage that is usually offered only to full-timers. It may also reduce the number of people who work at Starbucks just to get health insurance.

        In other words, this will give them greatly increased freedom.

        They may also do better financially, with reduced employment-related costs for child care, commuting, etc.

        Not to mention the possible benefits of greater available time for family activities, educational, cultural, recreational, and other pursuits.

    • JGC

      Wal-Mart announced that 35,000 part-time employees will soon be moved to full-time status, enabling them to the full healthcare benefits that were scheduled to be denied them as a result of Wal-Mart’s initial efforts to avoid the requirements of Obamacare.

      • HonestDebate1

        That’s good news. God bless Walmart.

        • TFRX

          Bless them for getting some of their workers off govt-supplied HC for the indigent?

          You’re a bigger sucker than I thought.

          • HonestDebate1

            Geesh, I can’t win for losing.

          • fun bobby

            is that a bad thing?

  • OnPointComments

    Do you want to mandate that health insurance policies cover pre-existing conditions? Should it be in the law that all insurance policies cover maternity care? Mental health care? Drug abuse care? Should the law require that gender not be a factor in calculating the cost of a premium? Should children be able to stay on their parents’ insurance policies until age 26?

    Supporters of the ACA and President Obama point to approval of these policies as proof that the public likes the ACA. The question might as well have been: Q: Do you want something for nothing? A: Yes, I’d like that! That would be great!

    The reality is that ‘something for nothing’ rarely occurs. This quote from an LA Times article is reality: “I was all for Obamacare until I found out I was paying for it.” How naïve was it to think that you wouldn’t be paying for it?

    SOME HEALTH INSURANCE GETS PRICIER AS OBAMACARE ROLLS OUT
    Many middle-class Californians with individual health plans are surprised they need policies that cover more — and cost more.
    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-health-sticker-shock-20131027,0,2756077.story#axzz2iupB65YY

    Excerpt:

    Thousands of Californians are discovering what Obamacare will cost them — and many don’t like what they see.

    These middle-class consumers are staring at hefty increases on their insurance bills as the overhaul remakes the healthcare market. Their rates are rising in large part to help offset the higher costs of covering sicker, poorer people who have been shut out of the system for years. But middle-income consumers face an estimated 30% rate increase, on average, in California due to several factors tied to the healthcare law.

    • hennorama

      OPC — keyword in the headline: SOME.

      • OnPointComments

        You’re right — it’s only pricier for the middle class.

        • hennorama

          OPC — it’s hilarious to see the pretense involved in this stuff, as if health insurance premiums have never ever ever risen before, especially for those unfortunate consumers unable to get into a group plan.

          This is more of the same, and is only being covered due to the proximity to the beginning of PPACA enrollment provisions.

          ANY increase will be perceived as being due to the PPACA, whether it is true or not.

          It’s similar to when some retailers have poor results, and they blame the weather, or that there was one fewer weekend in the calendar quarter.

          The PPACA is a very convenient scapegoat for a variety of issues.

          • OnPointComments

            Is it your contention that the PPACA has not caused a rise in the cost of insurance premiums?

          • hennorama

            OPC — of course not. However, there will be and are both increases and decreases, as in any market.

          • OnPointComments

            If you had to guess whether the PPACA has caused the premiums on existing private individual health care policies to mostly increase or mostly decrease, what would be your guess? My guess is that it has caused these premiums to mostly increase.

          • hennorama

            OPC — I’m not a fan of guesswork.

            PPACA provisions are likely to increase UNSUBSIDIZED premiums in this small market subset for young, healthy males and are likely to decrease UNSUBSIDIZED premiums for older, less healthy individuals.

            Regardless, it’s a small subset of the overall market and population.

          • OnPointComments

            I’ve read this statement numerous times in various articles, this time in Forbes:

            Based on a Manhattan Institute analysis of the HHS numbers, Obamacare will increase underlying insurance rates for younger men by an average of 97 to 99 percent, and for younger women by an average of 55 to 62 percent. Worst off is North Carolina, which will see individual-market rates triple for women, and quadruple for men.

            But hey, those people are a small subset, so screw ‘em.

          • hennorama

            OPC — as with any market, various segments are affected differently by change.

            In the non-group (individual) marketplace, the new rules will generally lower premiums for older people and many women, while generally raising premiums for young people, and young men in particular.

            This is not a surprise.

            However, many people will be getting better insurance.

            “Essential health benefits must include items and services within at least the following 10 categories: ambulatory patient services; emergency services; hospitalization; maternity and newborn care; mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment; prescription drugs; rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices; laboratory services; preventive and wellness services and chronic disease management; and pediatric services, including oral and vision care.”

            See:
            https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/essential-health-benefits/

            In addition, everyone’s out-of-pocket costs will be capped, which is not always the case today.

            The horror!

          • OnPointComments

            “Better insurance” is in the eye of the insured. There are many, many people who do not consider it “better insurance” to get a policy with higher premiums and deductibles that covers services they will never, ever use.

          • hennorama

            OPC — that’s true, as implied in the sentence “However, many people will be getting better insurance.”

          • pete18

            However, “many people” wasn’t the promise made in selling the program.

          • OnPointComments

            President Obama: “If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period. NO ONE WILL TAKE IT AWAY. NO MATTER WHAT.”
            It didn’t quite turn out the way he promised.

          • HonestDebate1

            And he said it over and over and over again.

          • hennorama

            pete18 – I always find the use of the word “selling” to be curious when it comes to politics.

            It implies that politics are purely transactional, and that voters will only be swayed by money, or “stuff” as Bill O’Reilly bloviated, or “generous gifts” as Mitt Romney said after his electoral loss.

            This is a load of cynical, fact-free, delusional nonsense on the part of these speakers, but it seems to be what they truly believe.

            Sad really.

          • HonestDebate1

            You sure didn’t mind incorrectly guessing the call center’s policies.

        • HonestDebate1

          I think “most” would have been a better word than “some” but it’s the LA Times so….

          • HonestDebate1

            Better yet, “vast majority”.

    • hennorama

      OPC — taking your “we should always pay attention to the words” advice:

      From your Excerpt: “Thousands of Californians are discovering…” must mean less than “tens of thousands,” so we are talking about a max of 19,999.

      This works out to less than fifty-three thousandths of one percent (0.053%) of the Census-estimated Population of California: 38,041,430.

      Put another way, at most, we’re talking about 1 out of every 1,902 people in the state.

      • OnPointComments

        You have the denominator wrong . The denominator isn’t all Californians, it’s Californians with private individual health insurance policies.

        • hennorama

          OPC — that is another way to make the comparison. Feel free to provide the equivalent percentages.

          • OnPointComments

            When the federal government mandates that private individual health care policies must cover pre-existing conditions, maternity, pediatric, drug abuse, mental health, and the other “10 essentials,” there’s only one way the price of premiums can go, and that’s up.

          • hennorama

            OPC — provisions of the PPACA will both increase and decrease premiums for various demographic segments. In general, the direction for younger, healthier people is up, and down for older, less healthy individuals.

          • OnPointComments

            One of the greatest transfers of wealth in history, from the demographic with less wealth to the demographic with more wealth.

  • OnPointComments

    If you’re looking for an amusing way to pass the time, go on to the Facebook page for HealthCare.gov at https://www.facebook.com/Healthcare.gov
    and read the comments.

    This was my favorite I saw today:

    “As you sign up today folks don’t forget your free Obamaphone and to request a copy of Michelle Obama’s Healthy food choices book series. “How to survive on twigs and bark” … It will come in handy after you sell your first born to pay for the mandatory premiums!”

    • TFRX

      What, the birthers have given up?

      Really, troll better or go home.

      • jefe68

        This guy sure does post a lot. Most of it reminds one of bovine dung.

  • OnPointComments

    Further down this page somewhere I said that I had heard a presidential speech writer say that we should always pay close attention to the words, and he gave the example of an Obama administration spokesperson saying that thousands had enrolled in the ACA; the speech writer said that if the administration could have truthfully said ‘tens of thousands,’ they would have. “Watch the words” is good advice.

    When Jay Carney said that the US is not monitoring and will not monitor the personal calls of German Chancellor Angela Merkel, some pundits pointed out that Carney didn’t say “has not monitored.”

    BARACK OBAMA ‘APPROVED TAPPING ANGELA MERKEL’S PHONE 3 YEARS AGO’
    President Barack Obama was told about monitoring of German Chancellor in 2010 and allowed it to continue, says German newspaper
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/10407282/Barack-Obama-approved-tapping-Angela-Merkels-phone-3-years-ago.html

    Excerpt:

    “President Barack Obama was personally informed about secret US monitoring of Angela Merkel three years ago, according to latest reports on the eavesdropping affair. ‘Obama did not stop the action at that time but allowed it to continue,’ a US intelligence source close to the NSA operation told the Sunday newspaper.”

    • hennorama

      NEWS FLASH: every government spies on other governments, and on everyone else they possibly can, as they see fit.

      The US seems to simply be the champion of this arena.

      • HonestDebate1

        Ah, the ol’ everybody does it excuse.

        • OnPointComments

          Democrats love to point to bad behavior to justify their bad behavior.

          • Steve__T

            I’m not a Democrat but…. I still don’t mind showing bad behavior, and not to justify any other type of behavior.

            “What Ted Cruz Doesn’t Want You to Know”

            By now it seems pretty clear that Senator Ted Cruz has a plan to occupy
            the White House. But he doesn’t want people to know too much about it.

            And he definitely doesn’t want you to know about the special interests that
            have already begun to bankroll his political ambitions.

            That’s why the Texas senator’s latest crusade targets the Federal Communications Commission — and its efforts to better identify the funders of political ads.

            http://billmoyers.com/2013/10/25/what-ted-cruz-doesnt-want-you-to-know/

          • hennorama

            Steve__T — Senator Raphael Edward Cruz has already visited the early Presidential primary/caucus states of Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Florida, while claiming ‘100 percent of my focus is on US Senate,’ and saying ‘I was elected to do a job, and that is to represent 26 million Texans.’

            Do Texans live in any of those states? Just curious.

          • OnPointComments

            I think I’ll try to guess what Bill Moyers’ take on this is without clicking on the link. I bet I’m right.

          • HonestDebate1

            Steve_T, you are not a Democrat and I am not a Republican. As I recall, you supported Ron Paul, please correct me I may be mistaken. I am closer to the libertarian view than either party but I think their foreign policy is whacked. My impression is that you supported Paul in large part because of his foreign policy. Despite that, it seems to me we should largely agree on the other issues. But no.

            When the rubber hits the road I am a Conservative and you are a liberal. Like it or not, we have a two party system. I don’t like siding with Republicans, it’s too broad. There is a world of difference between John McCain and Ted Cruz. But Republicans are my only viable option. Democrats are yours. Go ahead and admit it.

          • Steve__T

            Sorry, I don’t fit into your box. When the rubber hits the road I am an American. I vote for individuals that I believe can do a good job not there party affiliation I believe that after an election, the winner of that election has responsibility’s to all of his representative area, not just those who voted for them. At this point I find so few that actually do this, put their whole State or representative area first equally, and I find it sad. We are no longer The United States Of America, we are fractured. broken and splintered into parts that don’t like the others.

            The only option is to be one of all. But as we know that won’t happen across the board. We have lost the rules of “contest” that say after win loose or draw, we are the same and must be gracious and accommodating,

            Not superior and condescending, for wining, not bitter and hateful, for loss.

            I am an individual, part of the whole.

            If America is ever united again. I will just be part of the whole.

          • HonestDebate1

            I’m not putting you in a box, our two party system does that. Sometimes compromise is destructive, futile and senseless. We are at a turning point and need to decide which fork to take.

          • jefe68

            Do you really think Ted Cruz has a chance of even getting near the Oval office on anything other than a White House tour?

          • jefe68

            More right wing whinging.

      • OnPointComments

        Do you think Jay Carney’s wording, “Is not monitoring” and “will not monitor,” but not “has not monitored,” is indicative of what the President meant when he said this would be the most transparent administration in history?

        • hennorama

          OPC — I’m confident that “the most transparent” remark was not made in the context of surveillance activities.

          BTW — I’m not saying this monitoring is good or bad, just stating the obvious, that all governments engage in these activities.

          What hasn’t been discussed is why German Chancellor Angela Merkel was using a device that COULD be monitored? Seems fairly irresponsible for a head of state.

          Reports indicate that she had both an official phone as well as a second phone that was not classified as tamper-proof, making it a relatively easy target.

  • hennorama

    Edna Krabappel, R.I.P.

    Fans of The Simpsons are in mourning, as Marcia Wallace, the voice of Edna Krabappel, passed away Friday at age 70. Marcia Wallace was also a co-star of “The Bob Newhart Show,” playing the role of Newhart’s loopy receptionist.

    For a montage of her work, highlighting Krabappel’s signature “HA!,” go to:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WLNkbRvraho

  • TFRX

    Because everybody writing “Why isn’t it perfect and solved all our problems in three weeks” pretty much already has healthcare, a useful and ignored perspective:

    Obamacare is more than a website. More than half of the people I worked with on the Obama campaign in 2008 said health care reform was their reason for joining the campaign and working to elect a Democrat. Forty-seven million Americans, including me, were uninsured until now. When I finally was able to log into the site–after a few days and a few false starts–I was floored by the number of affordable options. When I scrolled through my list of choices–124 different plans to be exact–I realized that this is the reason Republicans hate the program so much: it will fundamentally change lives, including my own.

    There are a few glaring omissions in the coverage of Obamacare’s shaky rollout. For the most part, those covering the problems are insured themselves and consequently greatly underestimate the patience of a chronically uninsured person who has been counting down the days until Obamacare began so they could have a little peace of mind that if they got sick they wouldn’t be staring down bankruptcy.

    http://feministing.com/2013/10/24/dear-journalists-your-privilege-is-clouding-your-perspective-on-obamacare-website-glitches/

    • OnPointComments

      What an absurd pretense for a column: if you have insurance, you have no right to complain about how the PPACA affects you.

      • TFRX

        No, it’s “everybody who is either actually complaining for reals, or making half-assed jokes, already has insurance and the press corps really isn’t interested in the experiences of people without coverage”.

        Because covering that means getting their hands dirty and examining what poverty does to people in this country.

        The framing is a perfectly predictable extension of life inside the Beltway Bubble. I wish I’d seen it coming.

    • hennorama

      TFRX – an excellent point, and one that is true about other issues as well, notably poverty and nutrition.

      Those who are not poor or who have never been poor or hungry have no idea how poverty and hunger can take over one’s life, and alter one’s entire perspective. It’s no accident that humankind’s cultural evolution took off once humans figured out how to produce enough nutrition so that some individuals could devote their time and energy and brainpower to topics other than simple survival.

      Researchers based at Princeton University recently published a study on this issue. From the Abstract, published in the journal Science:

      “… it appears that poverty itself reduces cognitive capacity. We suggest that this is because poverty-related concerns consume mental resources, leaving less for other tasks. These data provide a previously unexamined perspective and help explain a spectrum of behaviors among the poor.”

      See:
      http://www.sciencemag.org/content/341/6149/976

      From the Princeton University Office of Communications, about the research:

      “Poor concentration: Poverty reduces brainpower needed for navigating other areas of life

      “Poverty and all its related concerns require so much mental energy that the poor have less remaining brainpower to devote to other areas of life, according to research based at Princeton University. As a result, people of limited means are more likely to make mistakes and bad decisions that may be amplified by — and perpetuate — their financial woes.

      “Published in the journal Science, the study presents a unique perspective regarding the causes of persistent poverty. The researchers suggest that being poor may keep a person from concentrating on the very avenues that would lead them out of poverty. A person’s cognitive function is diminished by the constant and all-consuming effort of coping with the immediate effects of having little money, such as scrounging to pay bills and cut costs. Thusly, a person is left with fewer “mental resources” to focus on complicated, indirectly related matters such as education, job training and even managing their time.

      “In a series of experiments, the researchers found that pressing financial concerns had an immediate impact on the ability of low-income individuals to perform on common cognitive and logic tests. On average, a person preoccupied with money problems exhibited a drop in cognitive function similar to a 13-point dip in IQ, or the loss of an entire night’s sleep.”

      See:
      http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S37/75/69M50/index.xml?section=topstories

      This seems completely intuitive to anyone who has experienced circumstances of poverty and concerns over where their next meal will come from, as I have at times. But those who have not had such experiences have difficulty understanding these phenomena.

    • HonestDebate1

      Who on earth has asked why isn’t it perfect or hasn’t solved all our problems in three weeks?

      And yes, Obamacare is more than a website. It’s a job killer, it’s an imposition on business, it’s a doctor early retirement machine, it’s a tax on every American, it’s a government takeover of 18% of the economy passed without reading it, it’s the most sweeping bill ever to be passed on a 100% partisan basis, it’s premium hike for the vast majority of people, it’s a bureaucratic nightmare, it’s a big fat lie.

      • TFRX

        Keep JAQing it, bub.

        Someone wanna introduce HD to the narrative being flogged relentlessly by the right-wing advocacy media? Cos I got better things to do with my time.

        • jefe68

          It’s not worth the effort. Let him steep in his own inadequacy.

          • HonestDebate1

            I’m adequate.

          • jefe68

            Really? Do tell?

        • HonestDebate1

          Everything I wrote is true, you know it in your heart.

        • pete18

          Oh please, “Obama care isn’t just a web site” is the mandatory talking point from Democratic headquarters.

          • fun bobby

            its not just a web site, its a feeling, deep down in your heart

          • pete18

            Intentions and feelings are all that matter for some. Results and accountability? That’s for suckers.

          • fun bobby

            it is when you have hope AND change

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    This really nails it.

    “The Democratic Party seems less interested in helping blue collar Americans than replacing them with with illegal aliens.” — Unnamed source

    • lobstahbisque

      “WftC is really scraping the bottom of the proverbial barrel” –
      Unnamed source

      • WorriedfortheCountry

        The truth will set you free.

        • lobstahbisque

          Your truthiness will not. And this is one blue collar American who HAS been set free by SSDI Medicare and SNAP.

          • HonestDebate1

            I got some government cheese once.

          • lobstahbisque

            It’s the color of Boehner….

          • jefe68

            Really, good for you.

          • HonestDebate1

            Nah, it made me soft. Hunger was the cure for my woes. It’s a great motivator.

  • OnPointComments

    Having watched Lara Logan’s “60 Minutes” segment on Benghazi tonight, I bet Christopher Stevens & the other 3 Americans would still be alive had we not been in the midst of a presidential election where “Al Qaeda is on the run” was being shouted and touted. The primary person being interviewed was wise to use a pseudonym — if I were him, I wouldn’t want the Hillary for President campaign to know who I am either.

    I wonder if the person on here who regularly quotes that George Bush didn’t act on the vague “Al Qaeda intent on attacking US” memo cares that the US was warned that Al Qaeda would attack the Red Cross in Benghazi, then the British in Benghazi, then the US in Benghazi, and that Al Qaeda had already completed steps 1 & 2 prior to September 11, 2012.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Didn’t that 60 minutes piece seem grossly incomplete?
      Was it just part one of a series?

      They did the setup with Hicks. But where was the follow up — 60 minutes style? Chasing officials down corridors asking for answers?

      Mike Wallace is turning over in his grave.

    • HonestDebate1

      By the time I got in last night the show was over but I just watched the segment. It made me sick, literally sick. I noticed the piece did not mention the video.

  • HonestDebate1

    I’ve been hesitant to use the $634 million number when describing the Obamacare web costs, you just never can be sure. I should know better than to underestimate this administration’s ability to over spend. It turns out the cost is at least a billion.

    http://about.bgov.com/2013-10-24/late-it-cash-surge-foreshadowed-health-law-woes/

    But that doesn’t include the HHS related internal cost so it’s probably closer to $1.5 billion.

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/2013/10/27/healthcaregov-s-mounting-costs-part-2-dont-forget-hhss-internal-costs

  • lobstahbisque

    I thought only dictators ruled by fear. Ya mean ’cause we stopped torturin’ people? [a wonderful recruitment tool for Al Qaeda incidentally]

    • HonestDebate1

      ..

      • lobstahbisque

        Very funny. [no irony intended]

        • HonestDebate1

          It was actually a mistake but it works.

  • fun bobby

    he should take them hunting

  • JGC

    Why do comments get flipped into moderation? I am pretty squeaky clean in my commentary. What is the trigger? (oh oh, what if it is using the word “trigger”?)

    • JGC

      As best as I can deduce, I got flagged for using the words ickDay eneyChay.

      • lobstahbisque

        Dibick or Pebenibis anyone?

      • HonestDebate1

        Wow, you are correct! I just replied to you and was moderated. My reply merely pointed out my comment below was also moderated before it appeared. It has the name you mentioned. As soon as that happened I made another comment with only the name and nothing else. You guessed it, it’s awaiting moderation. I hope your liberal self, I say that with all affection, appreciates my conspiracy minded conclusions.

        • HonestDebate1

          Do you suppose it’s just because of the first name and not political? I am going to try again, after this, by citing the former Democrat Senator from Missouri.

          • HonestDebate1

            I tried and it’s awaiting moderation. On one hand I’m relieved it’s not a liberal bias thing. On the other hand it’s stupid as hell and that disappoints me. I wonder if I can write tallywacker?

          • HonestDebate1

            I am so tempted to use two p words. One describing the accepted medical term for male anatomy and the other to describe the slang for female anatomy. But I don’t want to come across as a perv.

          • lobstahbisque

            Penis is ok but not short for Richard.

          • HonestDebate1

            Thanks for that pussycat.

          • JGC

            Mystery solved! I am kind of disappointed that it is just Dicksus being stupid, and I am not in fact seen as a potential security threat worthy of moderation by the NSA.

            Now I feel like pouting.

          • HonestDebate1

            I’m with you.

        • JGC

          I tried the same two word test, and it was flagged for moderation. Disqus gives only 3 reasons for moderation: contains a link, contains an attachment (image or video), or user has not verified their e-mail. I checked my verification, and that was not the problem. So all I can guess is that there is now a 4th reason to get flagged, and that is for the NSA to reroute all messages mentioning the name eneyChay.

          You know, we’re really not paranoid if we have a reason to be paranoid…(Cue up Twilight Zone music)

          • HonestDebate1

            Cheney.

            [edit] That was not moderated.

      • HonestDebate1

        BTW, nice pig latin!

      • hennorama

        Yep that’ll do it. See below.

      • fun bobby

        that’s actually at mr cheneys request. just like how his house is blurred out in all the satellite photos

    • hennorama

      JGC — I can personally attest that the moderation algorithm allows the word “cock,” but not the nickname for “Richard.”

      If you switch the H and C in the following, the first word gets you into moderation. (note this definition of the resultant first word: “ “H”UM: along with being : and”)

      Here we go: “Hum A Cero To You”

      Another post about Oliver Hazard Perry was auto-moderated due to the presence of the plural of the word “a-double-ess-e-ess.” I subsequently switched to “buttocks” and had zero moderation issues.

      Someone also once flagged a post I wrote about the German system of Dual Vocational Training. Weird. I put double brackets around it, then re-posted without difficulty. It’s possible that I shamed the moderator into quick action by writing, “C’mon moderator … even the NFL replacement refs were faster than this. Make a decision already, then put my post back up.”

      Different sites that use DISQUS also seem to have different auto-moderation standards.

      Each time I figure out what happened, I inform the forum.

      If you figure it out, please do the same.

      • JGC

        You are correct! That has to be it. How bizarre. No wonder no one uses that as their nickname for Richard anymore.

      • brettearle

        NOTES OF A
        BASKETBALL CLUB IN DIRE

        TRANSFORMATION

        Mr. Ainge, You No Longer Can Handle “THE TRUTH”.

        Nothing lasts forever.

        We pretty much all know this, right?
        Even when we try to be in denial about it, we know it.

        Ok, so even if the prelim warm-ups have begun for the new season–without the 17th Banner Stars being in green uniforms–I still ask the question:

        Why shouldn’t the Boston Celtics feel obligated to protect the following vaunted tradition?:

        All-time great players ending their career with a
        professional sports club that is one of the top four of the greatest dynasty franchises, in the history of American professional sports.

        It couldn’t possibly be that the President of Basketball Operations has never forgotten when, he, himself–one of the better Celtics of
        all time–was traded.

        Yes, it couldn’t be that the President–in some symbolic way–is going to compensate for the misplayed transaction, in 1989, that brought Joe Klein and Ed Pinckney to Boston in exchange for His Truly?

        It couldn’t possibly be that times have changed to such a degree that Loyalty and Commitment are looked upon as a diseased warp of
        values–ones that are archaic and almost laughable.

        It couldn’t be that the, “What Have You Done for Me, Lately?” syndrome is front and center, with a Management that—just like in the
        Pitino days—needs to win at all costs….and needs to do it soon [or at least
        sooner than the Big 2 were to completely deteriorate.].

        Did the Celtics hold on to the Big 3 longer than they should have, back in the late 80s?

        Maybe. But a Class Act, Celtics style, deserves a prolonged showcase. The Celtics club with Parish, Bird, and McHale showed most of the
        NBA—including, sometimes, the Lakers–what old-school and old-style Basketball
        was all about.

        And, just think:

        If we had found a way to hang on to Ray Allen, would we now have to erase that
        image, in our heads, of Mr. Beyond-the-Arc bagging one of the all-time great
        clutch shots in an NBA finals, in June 2013—a timely play that led to the Shamrock arch rival’s second straight crown?

        Celtics Nation, now hear this:

        The Truth was, arguably, the 5th, or 6th, greatest Celtic of all time, after
        Russell, Havlicek, Bird, and maybe Cousy or McHale (with Heinsohn, Parish, and
        Cowens as honorable mentions; Garnett’s stay, I think, was too short-lived to be officially considered).

        Paul Pierce–after an apprenticeship period of childlike
        adolescence and endless carping, and during a time that almost recklessly ended
        his life—turned into a high-octane scorer who shredded his heart and soul for
        the Boston Celtics, game in and game out.

        Sure it wasn’t always pretty. But The Truth WAS The Truth, the Whole Truth, and Nothing But the
        Truth, so help us God—until we lost him.

        And now God truly help us:

        The joy and the delight of watching THE Warrior get into his sweet spot and get the desperately needed basket: It is no more—because of the many `ping-pong balls’ that Mr. Ainge thinks will supercede the one-time only tragic table-tennis volley, when Duncan was lost (as well as ultimately redeem the tragic deaths of Reggie Lewis and Len Bias), in the fiasco of the Pitino Era.

        We couldn’t learn the first time–so, now, we’re comin’ back for more?

        How many special players can Ainge pluck from future drafts–from another team who has given them up to Boston, but is not going to
        implode, any time soon?

        How many picks will turn into slimmer pickins’, than the bereft Celtics might want or need?

        I just hope that Mr. Ainge has something up his special sleeve, if Kelly Olynyk and Chris Humphries fall flat on their respective
        faces.

        **********************

        Who Are the Inmates and Who Is the Asylum?

        Well, it’s nice to know that we are all concerned about how Savant Extraordinaire, Rajon Hondo will respond and react to the Head Coach….

        Excuse Me??

        What is the lowest dysfunctional level that we must absolutely reach, before we can say,

        “Hey, this is too bad to be true!”

        The players shall engineer a wildcat strike and walk out on the coach, during the game?

        The players shall take out a collective ad in the city newspaper, giving notice of their declared mutiny?

        And so shall we actually think that—at the very least—a player(s) should tell the coach what to do and how to behave?

        Or, in the case of popularity contests, a player(s) shall make or break his coach, based on whether he likes the helmsman or not; or
        whether he approves of his kind of basketball?

        Is this how culturally decayed the NBA has become?

        I don’t know about you, but I heard Rondo comment once, in a post game interview at the press table, “sometimes, you [Rondo] think you know more than the Coach.”

        And, trust me, Rajon was not saying this in the context of self-reproach. It was a mindset of his own, to which he was pointing, generally; it was not from a situation where he was expressing
        humility—wherein, he, Rondo, thought that he was right but he realized that he was wrong.

        No sir.

        And now, we read in the local papers recently (as we did when the New Coach was first hired) about how such a quote, `delicate’ unquote,
        relationship—between mercurial superstar and virgin coach will mix, interact, survive, or even Thrive!

        We start to read the Ins and the Outs, the intricacies, and the demonstrations of mutual respect for the Duo Core, that might very well
        dictate the future harmony for the Boston Celtics.

        Well, that’s just Great!

        We all know how brilliant Rondo is.

        That’s clear.

        We all know how fascinating and charismatic Rondo is.

        That’s also clear.

        And, regardless of his still-sometimes inconsistent and erratic play, we all know what a talented periodic superstar Rajon Rondo can
        be!

        And we also heard Wyck Grousbeck predict, last year, that Rondo will likely coach someday.

        All of that is well and good.

        BUT RONDO WASN’T THE COACH WHEN WYCK PREDICTED THIS AND RONDO ISN’T THE COACH NOW.

        I would argue that Rondo is one of those great players who needs—very aggressively– mandated discipline, as to what his role will be.

        If Rajon tries to take over the team, Failure will take over the team instead!

        We don’t care, ultimately, if Rajon curries favor with Brad Stevens, successfully or not. It would
        be nice, if he did. But are we going to accede to Rondo’s whims or demands—and therefore pamper and appease him?

        For, if we do, there could be Hell to pay to the gods of Roundball.

        Rondo DEFERS to Brad Stevens. NOT the other way around.

        ******************

        What’s This? CSNE stands for

        Celtics Sports NEpotism?

        The local network has caved on objectivity and has enabled reciprocity that is mindful of Lobbyists, Special Interests and Washington
        politicians?

        The PRESIDENT of the Boston Celtics Basketball Operations is going to be a color man for the very media organization that has a detailed and intricate financial relationship with the Club?.

        Wherefore art thou Objectivity?

        Last time I checked, those of us who watch TV analysis, expect fair coverage—where the Fix Isn’t In.

        Danny Ainge—the very man who shops for the groceries is also going to tell us how we should DIGEST those groceries?

        Wither TomFoolery?

        Why should we put up with this kind of schewed coverage?

        President Ainge is going to be fair in his analysis, of those players he has hand picked recently, as well as, those to whom he
        professes fealty, such as with his,
        “I-stand-by-Jeff-Green-no-matter what”, pledge?

        [I am still waiting for a good explanation about just how `efficient’ Jeff Green is as a player, as Ainge has claimed, according Roundball Sabermetrics. Does the efficiency include his mediocre defender skills? Or his periodic front-runner tendencies?]

        It feels as if the broadcast could fall to the level of ardor that might come out of watching the Obama-Romney debates, where the media
        analysts might be Michelle and Ann, respectively.

        The last thing we need is an ultimate Home-r who is forced to be a Home-r, by the nature of his position. And if he ISN’T a Home-r, as
        an analyst, then we’d be hard pressed to know when he is simply bending over backwards NOT to be subjective, instead of giving us realistic evaluation.

        This maneuver and gesture—of the Club President doing color–is highly, highly suspect, unprofessional, even kitsch.

        An almost `remorseful kind of corruption’ might be a phrase that is deserved here.

        Not to mention the very credible Mssrs. Donny Marshall and Greg Dickerson who have apparently been let go.

        They will be missed—and judging by the fiasco that I am expecting with this kind of predetermined bias of broadcast analysis, from the President of Basketball Operations who is responsible for putting players on the court that we will be watching–we will miss M & D, even more, once the tea leaves become unsettled.

        This is terribly incestuous. There oughta be a Law!

        Respectfully Submitted,

        BrettEarle

        • hennorama

          brettearle – thanks for that. I enjoyed it.

          A few ‘off the top of my head’s:

          The NBA is a players’ league. The Celtics and Ainge are in denial about that. They’re also in denial about the quality of their players.

          Brad Stevens did well with college players, but the NBA ain’t college, yo. Why the Celtics are willing to try another college coach after Pitino’s failures is a mystery. One supposes Jim O’Brien’s skill and success convinced them to try again.

          Doc Rivers got out while the gettin’ was good. Smart guy that he is, he went to a talented team whose players may actually be willing to listen. Plus he’s got Chris Paul, in what’s now a guard’s league.

          Apologies that I forgot that Kelly Olynyk is also a Canuckian. Also forgot, without ever knowing, that Kelly Olynyk is a Celtic, and even that he, in fact, existed. Who knows, if all the players from the Summer League get promoted to the NBA, Olynyk might do OK.

          Thanks again for the honor.

          • brettearle

            Very much obliged.

            Thanks for taking the time to read it….

            I read your comments. If I have time, I’ll respond to them.

            Thanks, again.

          • hennorama

            brettearle — the pleasure and honor were all mine.

    • fun bobby

      its because the NSA screens out your foreign posts

  • lobstahbisque

    cock and balls

  • JGC

    Arcade Fire has a new album coming out on Tuesday, “Reflektor”. The Montreal Gazette reviewer said “It is the best thing the group has done since its game-changing 2004 debut “Funeral”. Maybe better.”

    • Ray in VT

      I listen to CHOM out of Montreal quite a bit, and Arcade Fire gets a lot of play. The title track to the new album is the only one that I have heard from Reflektor, but I like it.

      • fun bobby

        tabernac!

  • OnPointComments

    One Canadian opinion writer is as impressed with Obamacare as I am.

    HEALTH CARE AND A FREE SET OF STEAK KNIVES
    http://www.torontosun.com/2013/10/25/health-care-and-a-free-set-of-steak-knives

    Excerpt:
    Barack Obama took half a billion dollars worth of taxpayer money to start a website to deliver better health care options and then told people to ignore it. Just amazing.

    All that political capital spent, all that whining tone of presidential complaint, all that pouting from the man who leads the most powerful nation on earth; all he can do with his signature piece of legislation is tell people to go elsewhere. What a tone-deaf leader Barack Obama has become and what a dangerous legacy he promises to leave.

    Forget cash for clunkers and the millions splashed on California-based solar panel manufacturer Solyndra that went spectacularly bust, socializing medicine in the U.S. was a key part of Obama’s re-election platform. Now it is failing. Big time and very publicly. As for the website problems themselves, it’s fair to say they confirm that success has a thousand fathers — and presumably mothers — but failure is an orphan.

    • nj_v2

      Toronto Sun. Haha!

      Racist, useless rag. Bird cage lining is too good a use for it.

      Who was the Sunshine Girl in that issue?

      It’s hilarious to watch the forum conservoclown posse fall over each other to see who can dredge the stuff from the deepest part of the lake.

      • HonestDebate1

        The stuff isn’t at the bottom, it’s bubbling over. The stench is awful. This administration is disgusting. I don’t like saying that but it’s true. This is awful.

        • jefe68

          Yawn.

          • HonestDebate1

            And you and your apathy are the problem.

          • jefe68

            My apathy towards your inanity is not the problem.

          • HonestDebate1

            I agree, you are obsessed with my inanity. You are apathetic to Obama’s destruction of America.

          • Ray in VT

            America will be just fine. I think that it is ‘Merica that feels threatened.

          • jefe68

            You flatter yourself.

      • jefe68

        I would say it’s more of a small pound than a lake.
        Who knew the regressive rights diatribe tentacles spread that far north.

        • Ray in VT

          Like the sort of body of water that is so limited in size and connectivity that small populations survive through inbreeding?

          • jefe68

            Yeah, pretty much.

        • fun bobby

          drink!

          • jefe68

            Dolt!

        • HonestDebate1

          A pound is a pound, there is no such thing as a small pound.

          • Ray in VT

            He was clearly talking about volume, not mass.

          • HonestDebate1

            Which weighs more, a pound of feathers or a pound of lead?

          • Ray in VT

            That would depend in part upon the relative gravitational fields in effect for each.

          • jefe68

            A pound of common sense.

          • jefe68

            In your case it’s more like a morass.

        • pete18

          Would you knock it off, I’ve barely recovered from the weekend.

          • jefe68

            Who asked you frat boy.

          • pete18

            All those obscurantists on the left.

          • jefe68

            Your such a vapid bore.

          • pete18

            Drink!

      • pete18

        “gracious madam, I that do bring the news made not the match”

    • fun bobby

      it does raise the question: who cares what Canadians think?

      • WorriedfortheCountry

        Could it be a little Canadian guilt that it was a Canadian company that took the $500M to lay this turd?

        • fun bobby

          that’s aboot the worst eh?

        • JGC

          I know I am feeling guilty, all the way to the bank. What is that exchange rate again, US$ to CAN$ to bitcoins?

  • pete18

    This is “bending the cost curve down?”

    “On balance, many Americans will benefit from the healthcare
    expansion. They are guaranteed coverage regardless of their medical history. And lower-income families will gain access to comprehensive coverage at little or no cost.

    The federal government picks up much of the tab through an expansion of Medicaid and subsidies to people
    earning up to four times the federal poverty level. That’s up to
    $46,000 for an individual or $94,000 for a family of four.

    But middle-income consumers face an estimated 30% rate increase, on average, in California due to several factors tied to the healthcare law.

    Some may elect to go without coverage if they feel prices are too high. Penalties for opting out are very small initially. Defections could cause rates to skyrocket if a diverse mix of people don’t sign up for health insurance.

    Pam Kehaly, president of Anthem Blue Cross in
    California, said she received a recent letter from a young woman complaining about a 50% rate hike related to the healthcare law.

    “She said, ‘I was all for Obamacare until I found out I was paying for it,’” Kehaly said.”

    From the LA Times: http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-77942344/

  • ExcellentNews

    Obamacare is a perfect excuse for insurance companies to hike the premiums so that the CEOs and their cronies can give themselves another $55,000,000 “performance bonus”. Do you think they will tell you “we are hiking the premium so that Mr. So and So can purchase a longer yacht” ???

    We used to be a country where our business elites worked hand in hand with Government to make a better country for everyone. Now, after three generations of tax cuts, that same business elite is at WAR with our country and the middle class, betraying us to slave-labor communist dictatorships in Asia.

    • HonestDebate1

      And you don’t think being prohibited from charging more for pre-existing conditions or being forced to have arbitrary minimum requirements had anything to do with the hikes?

    • ExcellentNews

      No “HonestDebate”, I do not think so. BTW, insurance industry overhead accounts for 1/3 of our healthcare costs, and you can bet these massive cashflows do not go to the peons answering the phones.

      I have yet to see a shred of data showing that prohibiting insurance companies for charging an arm and a leg to an individual with the preexisting condition of “being alive” has resulted in a 30% increase of their payments to doctors and hospitals (who, expensive as they may be, actually DO something related to healthcare).

      No, knowing all too well how corporate America works, I am 99% certain the hikes are pure opportunistic for-profit play by the executives.

      • jefe68

        He dose not get it. Never will.

        • HonestDebate1

          A pound is a big dose.

          • jefe68

            It’s called a typo. Oh regressive naive of trite.

          • HonestDebate1

            That makes no sense. Did you mean knave?

          • fun bobby

            drink!

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    “Obama knew nothing”…

    headline in today’s WSJ regarding the NSA but it appears that “Obama knew nothing” could be a standing headline.

    5 scandals Obama “knew nothing” about and counting…

    http://freebeacon.com/five-more-scandals-obama-knew-nothing-about/

    • OnPointComments

      I bet the President and First Lady knew about the contract for the Obamacare website:

      “Michelle Obama’s relationship with Princeton classmate Toni McCall Townes-Whitley, whose company earned the no-bid contract to design the disastrous Healthcare.Gov Obamacare website, continued after the Obamas moved into the White House.

      “Townes-Whitley and her husband even enjoyed “Christmas with the Obamas” at the White House in December 2010, according to a Facebook album created by Townes-Whitley.”

      http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/28/cgi-federal-executive-spent-christmas-with-the-obamas/#ixzz2j3Ot0YEC

      • WorriedfortheCountry

        Imagine Bush giving a no-bid contract to campaign contributor who employed a close personal friend of Mrs. Bush as a senior executive. Further, what if the contract was for $94M and quickly ballooned to $600M+ (and growing) and still laid a turd.

        • Rob07

          Yes, all the talk about Halliburton back then. But, at least they are competent at what they do.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Competent,– yes. Especially that hurricane machine.

        • JGC

          Hi WftC,

          I just want to add a couple of thoughts to mull over, as regards CGI: as I mentioned before, CGI Federal had an initial federal contract for around $90-million to get the federally administered exchanges up and running ( $90-milllion, although IT contracts in general are known to be notoriously open-ended). Compare that price ($90-million) to the contract signed by the state of Vermont which was around $80-million to start up their state-administered healthcare exchange: $80-million for one single state exchange vs. $90- to $600-million for 25 state exchanges within the federal program.

          The other thought is that, believe it or not, CGI is so big and entrenched in the world IT contracting business, that this Obamacare debacle only accounts for 3% of this year’s revenue for them. They can easily have their front person Cheryl Campbell stonewall and deflect any insight into their portion of the rollout difficulties, knowing that 97% of their 2013 income will be flowing from other streams.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Thanks for the data on VT. Was the VT exchange also done by CGI? Again, it seems like an outrageous amount of money. What is the cost per customer?

            I’d love to see the reasons given for the federal exchange costs escalating so much. I’ve seen almost no reporting on the details.

            I heard an anecdote today about work CGI did for Canada’s national gun registry. The original budget was $119M and they ended up spending $2B before it was scrapped. Their cost was $300/gun registered.

            These contractors seem to quite a racket going here at taxpayer expense.

            http://www.nationalreview.com/article/362255/obamacares-magical-thinkers-mark-steyn

          • JGC

            Yes, CGI Federal handled both. Vermont is not a populous state, so the cost per individual must be fairly high. Part of my point was that a small state like VT is paying $80-million, and a much larger swath of the U.S. is paying proportionately much, much less than Vermont. I don’t know if $600-million is fair to set up federal healthcare exchanges. It is certainly a bargain if you compare that to the billion$ Homeland Security contracts that CGI has also signed.

          • fun bobby

            $2 per person seems a little high for a website that most people ought to need not use if they are going to keep the healthcare they have. you don’t even get unlimited episodes of futurama to download

          • JGC

            About the long gun registry, it was actually started under the government of Kim Campbell (Conservative) in the 1990s. I can barely remember her, blink my eyes and she is gone. It was finally dismantled under another Conservative Prime Minister, Stephen Harper, a few years ago. There is now no collection of any new information.

            The remaining vestige is the destruction of the existing documentation of the long guns. Quebec is so far successfully holding up their destruction.

            I don’t know anything about CGI’s role in the long gun registry.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            “although IT contracts in general are known to be notoriously open-ended”

            Rephrase that to “no bid” and “poorly written” IT contracts are known to be notoriously open-ended.

    • lobstahbisque

      From Iran-Contra, to Bill’s BJ to the disastrous Shrub Junta, it’s true, plausible deniability has been on the rise. The problem is that the Repubs have been apoplectic over nothing—- now there’s a ‘something’ but they’ve overplayed their rhetoric already: Turning the amp up to 11 is the only possible option. [warning: Spinal Tap reference ].

      • pete18

        Puppet Show and Obama.

        • jefe68

          This from a card carrying member of the regressive right wing clown show.

          • pete18

            You’ve obviously never seen Spinal Tap.

    • HonestDebate1

      I feel sure he must be so mad about being kept in the dark that he’s spitting nails.

    • OnPointComments

      One thing you can say about the Obama administration: everyone in it enthusiastically embraces incompetence and ignorance as an excuse.

  • pete18

    When will the acolytes stop defending the indefensible:

    Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, “40 to 67 percent” of customers will not be able to keep their policy. And because many policies will have been changed since the key date, “the percentage of individual market policies losing grandfather status in a given year exceeds the 40 to 67 percent range.”

    That means the administration knew that more than 40 to 67 percent of those in the individual market would not be able to keep their plans, even if they liked them.

    Yet President Obama, who had promised in 2009, “if
    you like your health plan, you will be able to keep your health plan,” was still saying in 2012, “If [you] already have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance.”

    George Schwab, 62, of North Carolina, said he was “perfectly happy” with his plan from Blue Cross Blue Shield, which also insured his wife for a $228 monthly premium. But this past September, he was surprised to receive a letter saying his policy was no longer available. The “comparable” plan the insurance company offered him carried a $1,208 monthly premium and a $5,500 deductible.

    And the best option he’s found on the exchange so far offered a 415 percent jump in premium, to $948 a month.
    “The deductible is less,” he said, “But the plan doesn’t meet my needs. Its unaffordable.”"I’m sitting here looking at this, thinking we ought to just pay the fine and just get insurance when we’re sick,” Schwab added. “Everybody’s worried about whether the website works or not, but that’s fixable.
    That’s just the tip of the iceberg. This stuff isn’t fixable.”

    http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/28/21213547-obama-admin-knew-millions-could-not-keep-their-health-insurance?lite

    • HonestDebate1

      Anyone with half a brain knew that what he was saying could not be true and now we know that includes him. Of course we knew he knew too. I don’t know how anyone can say he wasn’t lying. Evidently there are a lot of gullible people out there because his lies worked.

      Here’s a few more:

      “No matter how we reform health care, we will keep this promise: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period. No one will take it away. No matter what. My view is that health care reform should be guided by a simple principle: fix what’s broken and build on what works.”

      “There’s no doubt that we have to preserve what’s best in the health care system, and that means allowing Americans who like their doctor and like their health care plan to keep their plan. And that’s going to be a priority for us.”

      “I know a lot of Americans who are satisfied with their health care right now are wondering what reform would mean for them, so let me be clear: If you like your doctor or health care provider, you can keep them. If you like your health care plan, you can keep that too.”

      “Those who oppose reform will also tell you that under our plan, you won’t get to choose your doctor, that some bureaucrat will choose for you. That’s also not true. Michelle and I don’t want anyone telling us who our family’s doctor should be, and no one should decide that for you either. Under our proposals, if you like your doctor, you keep your doctor. If you like your current insurance, you keep that insurance. Period. End of story.”

      “If you like your doctor, you’re going to be able to keep your doctor. If you like your plan, keep your plan. I don’t believe we should give government or the insurance companies more control over health care in America. I think it’s time to give you, the American people, more control over your health.”

      “If you already have health insurance through your job — and because many of you are members of unions, you do — nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change your coverage or your doctor. Let me repeat: Nothing in this plan will require you to change your coverage or your doctor.”

      • pete18

        And yet we will hear endless excuses and rationals for this, a rewriting of what the goals and promises for this law was, then a redefinition for what the word “lying” means, and ultimately, more ongoing attacks on all the people and groups who knew this law was a load of crap that could never work and tried to stop it. There you have it, “Hope and Change.”

    • OnPointComments

      Yeah, but George Schwab, 62, and his wife now have maternity coverage, pediatric care, drug abuse rehab, and mental health care; in the liberals’ world, that is a better policy. If you scroll further down the comments, there’s a crowd that believes if you have insurance, you shouldn’t complain: 500% increase? Sit back and relax. Your deductible goes from $500 to $5,500? Count your blessings. Liberals’ naïveté is exceeded only by their stupidity. They thought they could mandate the “10 essentials” for health insurance, whether you need them or not, and cover pre-existing conditions, and that health insurance rates wouldn’t rise and policies wouldn’t be cancelled.

      • pete18

        It wasn’t that they “wouldn’t rise” it was that they would be less expensive and the program would help lower the debt. The free lunch crowd bought into this fantasy hook, line, sinker and teleprompter.

        • fun bobby

          if I remember correctly it was the seas that would cease to rise

      • JGC

        Mr. and Mrs. Schwab also now also have PRESCRIPTION DRUG COVERAGE, which was typically offered only as an option at extra cost for most policies. Under the new ACA law, ALL individual and small group plans must offer at least one drug in EVERY category and class of the U.S. Pharmacopeia, and those costs will also be counted toward the “out of pocket” caps on medical expenses. (I don’t know about the Schwabs, but the prescription drugs for our family can sometimes add hundreds of dollars a month to our bill).

        They also get EMERGENCY CARE that does not require pre-authorization before they present at the emergency during a crisis, and they cannot be charged extra for an out-of-network visit (this is new coverage).

        They get EXTRA HOSPITALIZATION COVERAGE, which under the ACA, the insurer MUST cover hospitalization. Although the Schwabs may need to pay 20% of the bill or more, up until they reach their out-of-pocket limit of around $6000, there is now FINALLY a cap. Some hospitals charge $2000/day just for room and board, and with medical services it can be $20,000. THIS YEAR medical costs will bankrupt 650,000 HOUSEHOLDS – including many who thought they had decent insurance coverage until they were diagnosed with a serious illness.

        The Schwabs get mandated PREVENTION SERVICES, which will be FREE (no out-of-pocket expenses). This includes annual screening for: diabetes, colonorectal cancer, high blood pressure, depression, HIV, cholesterol, mammograms, cervical cancer, and others (important note: these services are free only if billed as part of an office visit, and must be provided by a doctor or professional who is part of the plan provider network.) They also get FREE VACCINES, appropriate to their age and population.

        • OnPointComments

          I doubt that anyone would disagree that a person is safer in a car that can sense when a collision might be imminent and prepare for it, apply the brakes if you’re going to rear end another car, monitor the driver’s attention to the road, and check blind spots. It would save lives and prevent injuries if all cars had night vision and 14 air bags, and notified an emergency center if an air bag deployed. These safety features would always work properly if all maintenance for several years was included in the cost.

          All of this would be better, and save lives, but it would mean that you have to buy a Mercedes or comparable car. But, because it’s better and safer, let’s mandate that everyone own a Mercedes. And no, you can’t keep your old car, you have to get new one. While we’re at it, if you don’t need a car, you’ve got to buy one of these safer models anyway. Just in case.

          Or, perhaps, people living in a free society should be able to decide for themselves.

          • fun bobby

            I used to think what would be best would be to eliminate all speed laws and traffic cops and just require everyone to drive Volvo 870s which if memory serves has never had a fatality. I would make that trade off

          • JGC

            If your purpose is to save lives, then everyone should permanently park their cars on their front lawns, and take public transit instead. Public transport has a factor of 10 less traffic fatalities than driving a car.

            Your analogy is not working for me.

          • fun bobby

            do that in Canada first

          • pete18

            No, what should happen is that everyone should be forced to buy and be passengers in Google robot cars: http://www.technologyreview.com/news/520746/data-shows-googles-robot-cars-are-smoother-safer-drivers-than-you-or-i/

          • pete18

            Here’s a car analogy that I think you’ll understand:

            “A better deal according to whom? Say I like my current car. The
            government says under some new policy I will be able to keep it and
            maybe even lower my car payments. But once the policy is imposed, I’m
            told my car now isn’t street-legal. Worse, I will have to buy a much
            more expensive car or be fined by the IRS. But, hey, it’ll be a much
            better car! Why, even though you live in Death Valley, your new car will
            have great snow tires and heated seats.

            This is what the
            government is saying to millions of Americans who don’t want or need
            certain coverage, including, for instance, older women — and men — who
            are being forced to pay for maternity care. Such overcharging is
            necessary to pay for the poor and the sick signing up for Obamacare or
            for the newly expanded Medicaid.

            At least Darth Vader was honest
            about his bait-and-switch: “I am altering the deal. Pray I don’t alter
            it any further.” Obama won’t even admit he lied.

            At the 2008
            Democratic National Convention, Obama talked at great length about the
            middle class and not once about the poor. His critics on the right said
            he was lying, that he was really more interested in income distribution.
            Such charges were dismissed as paranoid and even racist. But the
            critics were right.
            Obama was lying either to himself or to the rest of
            us — because he was playing the game to win.”

            http://www.nationalreview.com/article/362506/obamas-big-lie-jonah-goldberg

        • fun bobby

          that should be really great for big pharma

          • JGC

            And good for big Limbaugh,too, since Rush Limbaugh is still a few years away from the Medicare oasis. Now he can rest assured that his meds will be covered in his private health policy, and all the costs for his OxyContin will aggregate toward the out-of-pocket cap on his annual policy.

          • fun bobby

            we’ll be bankrupt in a week if we have to pay for all of Limbaugh’s pills. that’s a good example of the problem we have created right there. how are you getting by since health Canada raised the prices on weed because they can’t even afford to subsidize that which is cheap relative to the overpriced pharmaceuticals we pay for here?

      • pete18

        In other words, Obamacare has made cheap health insurance illegal. http://www.cnbc.com/id/101153188

    • JGC

      For me, the question goes to those insurance companies that decided to “cancel” the insurance for their individual policies to try to move those people to the new ACA-compliant plans, even though they could have also taken advantage of the grandfather clause built into the ACA.

      • HonestDebate1

        The grandfather clause was eviscerated after the law was passed. There is no grandfather clause.

        • pete18

          I would add that it isn’t that I trust business more, it’s that in most situations I am more confident in the outcomes that are created by businesses that have to compete with each other for customers who freely choose where to spend their own money, as opposed to the outcomes created by one entity, government, that operates without any competition and spends other people’s money, which is not always freely given.

          • HonestDebate1

            I agree, that’s a better way to put it than I did.

          • pete18

            Thanks, I just don’t want people to have the impression that people who promote the free market aren’t aware that there are bastards, and greedy people in business as well as people with skill and good intentions in government. That isn’t the issue, it is the different structures of both systems that makes for the differences in the results.

        • JGC

          I agree to your point in your edit. I think this particular topic (cancellation of individual’s healthcare policies) especially lends itself to the business-driven versus government driven part of the healthcare policy debate. And I appreciate and am distressed by the information that you and your wife have gotten one of these cancellation notices.

          I disagree that the there is no grandfather clause. There is a grandfather clause. But there is no mandate to force insurance companies to continue their policies, even though they can continue these older policies. Just on the surface of things, if I was the CEO of one of these insurance organizations, I would not want to distress my valued customers by cancelling their healthcare policy. If I did so, it would be because I either thought that I could “capture” that customer in a more lucrative policy within my company, OR because at the end of the day, I never really valued that customer.

  • JGC

    This is an interesting website for all sorts of behind-the-scenes information on healthcare delivery:

    http://www.beckershospitalreview.com

  • HonestDebate1
  • pete18

    Although it is a given that these comments are somewhat anecdotal (I’m sure we will continue to see more of this from doctors) this was also completely predictable: http://nypost.com/2013/10/29/docs-resisting-obamacare/

  • OnPointComments

    An item of curiosity for me: do any of the Obama supporters on here care that the promises President Obama made about the ACA are untrue? Does it matter to you that the promises were a bait and switch tactic?

    As Rich Lowry says on the National Review webpage:

    “To say that President Barack Obama is on the record telling Americans they can keep their current health insurance is an understatement. He repeated the assurance so many times during the health-care debate that it was almost a verbal tic. Rarely has a major domestic program been sold on the basis of a premise so patently untrue.

    “President Obama could always go with the Huey Long defense. In one of his gubernatorial campaigns in Louisiana, Long promised a state senator a bridge project in exchange for an endorsement. Upon getting elected, he reneged on his pledge. Asked by the jilted state senator what he should tell his disappointed constituents, Long advised: “Tell them I lied.”

    • HonestDebate1

      Good questions. I don’t think it does matter to most here. All of this was totally predictable and indeed was predicted. I am sure you knew, as did I, that you could not keep your plan or doctor if you liked them. We also knew the plan all along was to force a single payer “solution”. This was not supposed to work. IMO the libs here are fine with whatever means necessary to get to the end. Lies are no biggee, they are on board.

  • HonestDebate1

    I, as OPC below, am also curious. Can anyone make the case that Obama was not lying when he repeated ad nauseam that you could keep your doctor and plan?

    • HonestDebate1

      Ditto that premiums would go down by an average of $2500 per family?

      • HonestDebate1

        Ditto that he would not have the despicable mandate Hillary’s plan had?

        • HonestDebate1

          Ditto that the suddenly embraced mandate was not a tax?

          • HonestDebate1

            Ditto that the cost would be under a trillion over 10 years and deficit neutral?

    • pete18

      As I mentioned below, the response from the left will be to create new euphemisms for what things mean to avoid calling lies, “lies,” such as using “transition” for “cancellation.”

      http://washingtonexaminer.com/top-democrat-says-those-arent-cancellation-notices-theyre-transitions-into-obamacare/article/2538122

    • Ray in VT

      Care to hold him up to the GOP standard, also perhaps here known as the Gregg Definition, which requires one to know that one is lying in order to be lying and intent must be proved? Or does he get the Democratic treatment, which seems to be Obama bad, enemy of ‘Merica.

      • HonestDebate1

        I’ll take that as a no.

        • Ray in VT

          I’ll take that as a yes. He gets the much lower Democratic treatment.

          • HonestDebate1

            Alrighty then.

          • Ray in VT

            I just want to know if he is getting held to your “only” definition of lying. That is all.

          • HonestDebate1

            Wipe the hate out of your eyes and reread my comment. I am consistent. If he believed what he was saying then he was not lying. I am asking the question.

            It seems to me if you believe it is not necessary for him to believe what he is saying to be lying then he lied either way but you will not admit it.

          • Ray in VT

            Consistent in the double standard to which you apply your definition? I would agree with that.

            That one can believe something that they say and still be lying is not my belief. It is a position based upon accepted and valid dictionary definitions, not belief.

            Also, don’t tell me what I feel.

          • HonestDebate1

            So was he lying or not? And the double standard accusation is just bizarre. I am giving Obama the same benefit of doubt as I gave Bush. You are the one saying Bush lied but refusing to say Obama lied. There’s you double standard. I have explained why I (and Oxford, Merriam, Webster, dictionary dot com, one look, Cambridge, etc.,etc. and on and on) believe Bush was not lying. You don’t accept it, fine but please reciprocate.

            Use any definition you want. Use secondary definitions over the primary ones. Make one up. Stretch credulity. Give every benefit of doubt. Assume, project, conflate, confused and leap to conclusions. But please, I’m begging, either admit Obama lied or explain how it is that he didn’t.

            I’ve already explained what I believe is the only way he was not lying. If you don’t accept that as you’ve made plain, then give me some other rational.

          • Ray in VT

            So can you prove intent, which you claim must exist in order for it to be a lie? You have certainly cited a definition that you have used, but you claim that it is the only definition, and you claim that a standard exists that contradicts many valid dictionary definitions. That is what I do not accept, and if you choose to take a stand based upon that unsupportable belief, then I cannot accept that outcome, as it flies in the face of other valid definitions.

            What is your belief regarding the only way that he was not lying. I can think of at least 2 based upon your “only” standard, if you are going to indeed apply the same one to Obama as you do to Bush.

          • HonestDebate1

            I can prove intent with the documentation that shows he knew millions of people would loose their insurance while he said the opposite. That is an intent to deceive. I do not believe that he honestly thought what he said was true. If I thought he believed it I would say he did not lie. Beyond that I’m not going to continue to argue semantics.

            So if you are going to belligerently refuse to explain how it is that he wasn’t lying, I’ll lower the bar. Don’t explain it, just proclaim it. In your opinion was he lying or not?

            You are not helping yourself here by refusing over and over to acknowledge the obvious.

            [edit] And to be clear, I never said what you claim I said. I never said it was the only definition. I said every dictionary I could find listed intent or something analogous in it’s primary definition. Every single one. Lie has other definitions. I can lie down and take a nap. I can leave myself a good lie with a good drive.

          • Ray in VT

            So, but when there is documentation that the intelligence community said that Al Qaeda was not working with the Iraqis, and then, months later, Bush went out and said that they were, then that is still not a lie according to you. Please explain the difference between the two, except for that you think that Obama is an enemy of America and Bush is a true conservative.

            Also, can you prove that he believed what you claim, as you would have to according to your standard, because he would have to know that he was lying for it to be a lie, based upon previous statements by you.

            I am thinking that I am going to apply two different and highly disparate standards, based upon how I feel about the person in question. Somehow that will still be honest debate.

          • pete18

            It was in Obama’s own bill. Wouldn’t we assume that he would know what’s in his own bill?

          • Zenplatypus

            What a fascinating and revealing exchange. Say what you will about Bush Derangement sufferers, they are consistently entertaining!

          • HonestDebate1

            Bush was a snake in the grass, he lied and lied and lied. Cheney is the devil. The Bush administration makes Obama look like Mother Teresa. The Iraq war was all about revenge for daddy and lining the pockets of Cheney’s Haliburton friends… that and their sadistic penchant for torture.

            Did Obama lie or not?

          • Ray in VT

            Thanks for the hyperbole. Why resort to such statements? They seem overly simplistic and entirely disingenuous, so why bother. It just makes you look like a joke.

            So Bush did lie in the lead up to Iraq and his administration did engage in warrantless wiretapping?

          • HonestDebate1

            No Ray, if you want to believe Bush should have given one bit of intel over all else then fine. He believe the threat that ws WMD like everyone else, I didn’t think he lied. And he did not spy on Americans without a warrant as the meme goes. No one was damaged with the Patriot Act under Bush.

            Believe what you want but don’t ever accuse me of being a shill, being dishonest or having a double standard again. I’ve explained myself but you won’t. You can’t. Obama lied and your shilling, dishonest double standard self will die before you will admit it. That is sad because it’s a big offing deal.

          • Ray in VT

            Except that the intel wasn’t there to support his statement, and he did spy on Americans without a warrant. That quote from Gonzales says that they did it and that they didn’t need no stinkin’ court oversight, but yet you deny it. Interesting. So, how do you feel about the Obama administration’s use of incorrect intelligence in the wake of Benghazi. I’m sure that it is totally in line with your treatment of Bush. This should be entertaining.

            As I have said, I now honestly believe in two standards for people, depending upon how I feel about them, and because I honestly believe it, then I’m totally free and clear, even if I have to attempt to distort reality by attempting to tell people that the dictionaries don’t say things that they clearly do. It is a magical ability that I have acquired via Internet osmosis. It is really quite handy, as it allows me to never lose an argument or position, even when I have a clearly non-factual or bogus position that I am attempting to push.

          • HonestDebate1

            You’re just over the top weird Ray and Obama is a liar. I’m really sorry that your ideology trumps truth.

          • Ray in VT

            How is it weird. My second paragraph is entirely in line with positions that you promote, so are your positions just weird? I would argue yes in stances such as “the NAACP is the Klan with a tan”, your use of numbers that, as far as I can tell, trace back to white nationalist groups, and your steadfast determination to lie about the clear definitions in the dictionary to name a few.

            How does my ideology trump the truth? It’s not like I am excuses the lies of a former President that led to the deaths of some 4,500 Americans, the wounding of another 30,000 and maybe more than 100,000 Iraqis. That was a pretty big effing deal, yet ideology seems to blind some to the fact that the American public was dishonestly dealt with. Although, I guess that because he was a true conservative that, plus the warrantless wiretapping of Americans, must be defended at all costs.

  • HonestDebate1
  • HonestDebate1

    6 people signed up for Obamacare the first day. Six. I thought it was a dozen. My bad.

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Apr 18, 2014
Russian President Vladimir Putin speaks during a nationally televised question-and-answer session in Moscow on Thursday, April 17, 2014. President Vladimir Putin has urged an end to the blockade of Moldova’s separatist province of Trans-Dniester. Trans-Dniester, located in eastern part of Moldova on border with Ukraine, has run its own affairs without international recognition since a 1992 war. Russian troops are stationed there.  (AP)

Deadly clashes in Eastern Ukraine. A white supremacist rocks Kansas City. The Marathon bombing anniversary. And Bloomberg on guns. Our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

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Apr 18, 2014
This undated photo provided by NASA on April 2, 2014 shows Saturn's moon Enceladus. The "tiger stripes" are long fractures from which water vapor jets are emitted. Scientists have uncovered a vast ocean beneath the icy surface of the moon, they announced Thursday, April 3, 2014. Italian and American researchers made the discovery using Cassini, a NASA-European spacecraft still exploring Saturn and its rings 17 years after its launch from Cape Canaveral. (AP)

Oceans in Space. The new discovery on a moon of Saturn, and the possibility of life there.

 
Apr 18, 2014
Russian President Vladimir Putin speaks during a nationally televised question-and-answer session in Moscow on Thursday, April 17, 2014. President Vladimir Putin has urged an end to the blockade of Moldova’s separatist province of Trans-Dniester. Trans-Dniester, located in eastern part of Moldova on border with Ukraine, has run its own affairs without international recognition since a 1992 war. Russian troops are stationed there.  (AP)

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