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Week In The News: Default, Defiance And The Nobel Prize

Shutdown pain. Default fever. Terror raids and Nobel Prizes. Our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

Yellen001

President Barack Obama stands with Janet Yellen, vice chair of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System, in the State Dining Room of the White House in Washington, Wednesday, Oct. 9, 2013, where he announce he is nominating Yellen to be chair of the Federal Reserve, replacing Ben Bernanke. (AP)

Maybe a breakthrough this week, maybe not, on shutdown pain, default fever and Washington’s wild dance on the razor’s edge.  This country has seen politics of a strange order.  Now the talk is of a six-week time-out to negotiate.  But it’s still not clear exactly how and if that will happen.  Republicans, looking at devastating public opinion polls on their role.  The White House, unmoved and dangerously close to economic crisis.  Now we’ll see.  We’ve got Nobel prizes, US terror raids, Janet Yellen – first woman to helm the Fed.  Up next On Point:  our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

– Tom Ashbrook

Guests

Major Garrett, White House correspondent for CBS News, correspondent-at-large with The National Journal. Author of “The Enduring Revolution: How The Contract With America Continues to Shape the Nation.” (@MajorCBS)

Diane Brady, senior editor at Bloomberg Businessweek. (@DianeBrady)

Jack Beatty, On Point news analyst.

From Tom’s Reading List

National Journal: That Was Then, This Is Now — “To the degree that Obamacare is still part of the GOP’s ad hoc and ever-shifting shutdown strategy, it is prospective—seeking to siphon funds needed to implement the law, repeal it altogether, or equalize exemptions or waivers granted by the Obama administration to employers, unions, and other pleaders. It is a fight against the semi-known and largely feared. And it lacks a full-blown GOP alternative.”

BloombergBusinessweek: Obama Loses Face and Possibly Ground in Asia — “The reality is that Obama could have stayed on top of the congressional standoff and put in a brief but potent appearance at APEC. After making it clear Friday that he wasn’t going to ‘negotiate with a gun held to the head of the American people,’ the president could have immediately boarded Air Force One for a 21-hour flight to Indonesia, stepped off for a few hours to meet key leaders and address the world, then head home to be in Washington by Monday. What better way to prove that the country’s long-term fortunes can’t be subjected to what he considers to be Republican roulette?”

Guardian US: Janet Yellen: tough in her views and tough in her independence – “For Yellen, economics is not a dry subject: it is about real lives, and she believes it is worth risking a little inflation if it results in jobs. She has also analysed single motherhood, denying it is a result of welfare payments and blaming it on a decline in shotgun weddings.”

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  • tbphkm33

    You cannot give into extremism, to do so sets the wrong precedence. The fringe minority elements of an increasingly irrelevant political party is holding the U.S. hostage. The reality is that default is not one event, it is a sliding cascade of events. Many of the negative impacts have now already been set in motion by the Republican’s. The U.S. has in the past eleven day’s lost a lot and seen its future rewritten. This is a pivotal time.

    You cannot appease a cancer, it needs to be rooted out. The majority has spoken through two elections. At this point, there is no deal and no compromise that is good for the Union. The “conservative” “tea party” need to be exposed for what it really is – the smallest fanatical minority who’s views have been given stage presence through brainwashing and propaganda.

    At this point, the majority, The People and the Union are better off digging in and letting this minority fringe element of the Republican party take the full blame for their actions. Anything else, and this political “cancer” will only twist things around to further confuse the populace and raise more havoc.

    It is time to stand firm and rebuild afterwards.

    • Unterthurn

      The republican party and tea party formed a coalition before the last election. Every republican knew that and if the people choose to remain in that party and vote for their representatives that is their own naivety. – They were voting for the tea party. It is not fair to say a “fringe minority” are holding the rest of us hostage. The republican party is a large party and they should embraced their brothers. Or the majority of the republican’s are plain stupid for not kicking them out.

      • Don_B1

        Exactly!

        The Republican Party leaders have been encouraging the base in false beliefs since before President Reagan was elected, but it is no surprise that it was Edwin Meese, the Reagan administration’s Attorney General, who convened the meeting back in January 2013 that intiated this god-forsaken attempt by radical rightwing forces to cripple, underfund and eventually kill the PPACE (Obamacare).

        Another confirmation that “those that sow the wind shall reap the whirlwind.” [Hosea 8:7]

        It couldn’t have happened to a more deserving group, but it is not yet time for celebration as they are a resilient force, having begun in the shambles left after the 1964 Presidential Election and Barry Goldwater’s devastating loss to Lyndon Baines Johnson. They will continue their march until thoroughly defeated.

      • William

        The TP got the voters to come out and take the House in 2010 and put the GOP back into power. The GOP would not have won much, if anything without them. This is why Obama used the IRS to destroy the TP prior to the 2012 election and why he and the media have made it their mission to destroy them.

    • William

      So worse case we cut spending by 300 billion and that will crash the economy? The bond market will implode and our foreign investors will run away because we are not spending ourselves in failure?

      • jefe68

        ni·hil·ism
        noun ˈnī-(h)ə-ˌli-zəm, ˈnē-

        : the belief that traditional morals, ideas, beliefs, etc., have no worth or value.

        : the belief that a society’s political and social institutions are so bad that they should be destroyed.

        • William

          Don’t we owe our grand children something? We are spending their money before they are even born and yet, a small, minor cut in spending just does not seem to be on the table by either party.

          • keltcrusader

            What will money matter if they can’t breath, have no clean water, and are broiling to death because we have polluted the earth so much it is uninhabitable?

          • fun bobby

            are environmental issues being discussed in relation to the shutdown?

          • keltcrusader

            no, but I keep hearing how we are spending our children and children’s children’s future, but no one ever discusses the fact that we are utterly polluting and ruining the only Earth we have and they might not have a future.

          • William

            What could will that do if the Chinese own the water?

          • keltcrusader

            What if there is no potable water left for anyone to own?

            I think you need to look at your post.

          • TFRX

            The “either party” crap again?

            We know you better. Take care of your own when they are in the White House.

          • Don_B1

            We certainly owe our descendants more than just something!

            1) We owe them an economy that is good for all, not just the top 1%. Tax cuts only encourage speculation and rent-seeking by the wealthy as they have more money than they can or wish to spend productively, which creates overleveraging of investments and bubble economies and stymies job creation.

            2) We owe them an environment that is not suffering devastation from Global Warming Climate Change which will reduce crop production, alternately send regular floods and deadly droughts, which in tandem will devastate the soil and make it unproductive.

          • William

            Both parties love tax cuts and love spending. A modest cut in spending is long overdue. The war on terrorism is over so the DoD has been downsize. The Welfare State has failed and needs to be downsized.

      • Don_B1

        Failure to raise the debt ceiling could easily create a 10% drop in GDP (in three to six months or sooner), because the “automatic stabilizers” of the social safety net, which along with the ARRA prevented a much worse Great Recession in 2009, would be incapacitated, allowing the free-fall of the 2008 Fall and 2009 Winter to be recapitulated.

        That would be a $1.5 TRILLION loss to the economy and a huge increase in unemployment, possibly well into double digits, not counting the underemployed, etc.

        • William

          Raising the debt ceiling another 1 trillion dollars does more harm than good. What exactly are we buying with all that money?

          • Don_B1

            We are at a minimum keeping the economy from falling back into recession, providing safety net protection for those who are still without jobs, living below the poverty line with children because there are not the necessary jobs, etc.

            Businesses are still not hiring or buying capital goods at a sufficient rate to build strong economic growth because there is not the level of spending by consumers necessary to generate enough aggregate demand for them to make investments that will provide a decent return.

            As long as that condition applies, it will be better for the economy if the government purchases goods and services to put the unemployed back to work until their purchases create the needed aggregate demand so that businesses will start spending and then they can hire those workers away from the government and a strong economy will continue to gather momentum from the pent up demand of the last five (or more, since the government spending is not likely to start until after enough Tea/Republicans have been thrown out of office) years.

          • Fredlinskip

            Raising debt ceiling does not put America any more “in the red”-
            Do you pay your debts? If not, would not there be there short and long term consequences?
            (see new comment)

    • fun bobby

      I guess for people who believe the whole thing about “sides”

  • Jon

    Faith, defiance, uncompromising is the serial western virtue that drags democracy down to the tube.

  • Fredlinskip

    GOP threats to severely damage our country’s economic future would only be legitimized should Dems agree to make concessions for that extortion.
    Should Dems give in, constitutional process will be forever changed.

    Ah well, founding fathers didn’t know that much anyway.
    Change is good, Aye?

    • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

      Federalist Papers #58

      The House of Representatives cannot only refuse, but they alone can propose, the supplies requisite for the support of government. They, in a word, hold the purse that powerful instrument by which we behold, in the history of the British Constitution, an infant and humble representation of the people gradually enlarging the sphere of its activity and importance, and finally reducing, as far as it seems to have wished, all the overgrown prerogatives of the other branches of the government.

      This power over the purse may, in fact, be regarded as the most complete and effectual weapon with which any constitution can arm the immediate representatives of the people, for obtaining a redress of every grievance, and for carrying into effect every just and salutary measure.

      But will not the House of Representatives be as much interested as the Senate in maintaining the government in its proper functions, and will they not therefore be unwilling to stake its existence or its reputation on the pliancy of the Senate? Or, if such a trial of firmness between the two branches were hazarded, would not the one be as likely first to yield as the other? These questions will create no difficulty with those who reflect that in all cases the smaller the number, and the more permanent and conspicuous the station, of men in power, the stronger must be the interest which they will individually feel in whatever concerns the governmen

      • Don_B1

        President James Madison probably thought better of some of these words as soon as he became President, but he is surely spinning in his grave with the misuse you put them to here.

        The Framers gave the House of Representatives the sole right to INITIATE all spending bills, but they did not say that the word of the House did or even should have the final word, as the Senate still retains the power to modify or even rewrite any spending bill and the President still retains the right to veto any spending bill.

        Even the House could not, repeat could not, override a Presidential veto of its current spending proposals.

        Grow up and leave your temper tantrums behind you.

        • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

          It was only at the end that you lost any credibility with me. Sad, I was hoping for thoughtfulness.

          • Don_B1

            I take it that all but the last paragraph made sense to you.

            So you seize on anything to get past your cognitive dissonance and ignore real facts?

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            I comprehend your last paragraph perfectly. Let me rephrase it: “So I am right and Shut up.”

            Therefore there is no need for further discussion until such time as you change your mind. Perhaps that will be sooner, if not it will be later. I can wait.

          • Don_B1

            There is clearly no “shutting you up” but it would be nice if you brought a better understanding of the issue and dealt with comments opposing your spin more substantively.

            The last paragraph of my post probably did apply better to several other posts you have made today rather than this one, but i let this one be the “last straw.”

            Make a response based in actual facts rather than hyperbolic spin that is easily proved false and we can discuss the issues.

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            This is why the extreme step of a partial government shut down was necessary.

            I am also fatigued by your deliberate blindness to the macro-economic realities of our current state of indebtedness. You compound that the addition of insults. It is very easy to slide down that slope to a place where each side dehumanizes the other. It is not likely to create anything more than
            acrimony.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    We are becoming a nation of 29 hour per week workers — not by choice but resulting from the unintended consequences of a massive government scheme gone terribly wrong.

    • sickofthechit

      I disagree. It is nothing more than greed and selfishness on the part of the employers.

      Don’t you see the silver lining? Lower unemployment!
      charles a. bowsher

      • jimino

        If those who believe this falsehood would go to the link I posted they might be better informed of the facts. If, and that’s a big IF, they want the facts.

      • fun bobby

        greed and selfishness? people are in business to make money. that’s their responsibility for not only their investors but also their employees.

        • John_in_Amherst

          It’s the responsibility of good citizens to work together so the country moves ahead. When the goals of making money and good citizenship conflict, the GOP reliably breaks toward money. Not too surprising.

    • jimino
      • TFRX

        Jimino, there are No Republicans Here. Just True Principled Conservatives or Moderates who can’t think leftwards of John McCain.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          How can you tell what is ‘left’ of McCain? He is clearly senile.

    • John_in_Amherst

      typical GOP. First, force a “market based solution” (i.e.: insurance exchanges, instead of single payer) and minimum employment hours for coverage as part of the law, then have GOP’s allies in Big Business rig employment so the market can’t function (by reducing part-timers hours below the minimum).

      • Don_B1

        Even this “rigging” is being followed by only a few radical employers (in the service industry, e.g., food and retailing) who can only get away with their tactics because of the poor job market with high unemployment (which also contradicts the Republican meme that the unemployed don’t want to work).

  • Wm_James_from_Missouri

    Part 3,

    OK Teacher Steve, I’m listening. Tell me about Nav. S…, Talk slow, I ‘taint that smart’. You can start by telling me what you mean by PDF. Is this “Pressure, Density, Force” or probability density function, or ….?

    • Don_B1

      Partial Differential Equations.

      • Wm_James_from_Missouri

        Don, I know. I was signaling that I don’t like initial-isms. We have forgotten how to talk to each other.

        • Don_B1

          Thank you!

          I had intended to put a question mark after each sentence and, in the rush to get to the next post, dropped it from my mind.

          • Wm_James_from_Missouri

            Although, PDF could mean, “Possibly- Don’t Know -Formula” or maybe, “Please Define Formula“. So when I say, “I know”, I mean I know in the guessing sense. Usually people speak of differential equations as, “DiffEq”. I assumed Steve_T meant to say PDE. When you get right down to it, I am still in the dark.

            Possible (in the ) Dark Forever: PDF !

  • Wm_James_from_Missouri

    Part 2,
    AC, Many years ago, I contacted the NSF to ask a question about a “discovery” ( something I noticed) about the denominators of the Riemann Equation, you know, 1^S, 2^S, 3^S, 4^S, etc., but with “S” as an integer ( not complex). You see, I used to spend a lot of time just fooling around with numbers. So used a “Maple Six” program I had at the time and tested the following relationship with 25 “pair-wise groups” (50 numbers total). I found that

    ( Below, divisible means, without remainder)

    2^s – 1 is divisible by 1for s = 1

    (4^s + 2^s )- (3^s + 1) is divisible by 2 for s = 2

    (6^s + 4^s + 2^s) – (5^s + 3^s + 1) is divisible by 3 for s=3

    (8^s + 6^s + 4^s + 2^s) – (7^s + 5^s + 3^s + 1) is divisible by 4 for s=4

    All the way down to s = 25

    Some pretty big numbers, no?

    Well, NSF sent me a nice note: ‘ …Not Interested.

    The funny part is I faxed it to the people at SETI.

    Within a half hour I got a phone call. It appears that some people are looking for any sign of human intelligence ANYWHERE, they can find it !

    Very Funny !

    PS.

    This diagram using the Ceva Theorem relationship has a strong resemblance to the Star Trek symbol ! Cool !

    • Ed75

      Definitely a discovery, beautiful.

      • Wm_James_from_Missouri

        Thanks Ed,

        Fooling around with numbers and their properties can be frustrating and yet can sometimes lead to euphoria. A sense of quietude and renewal can sometimes follow. Ed, “it’s” almost like a prayer. It is no coincidence that mathematicians often joke about “the math god”. We do have to wonder why so many things in our world are in some type of mathematical relationship. Looking at the relationship I have shown here, I am still asking if there is yet, other values for ‘S” that would produce the same phenomena ?

        • Don_B1

          Carl Friedrich Gauss, the “father” of number theory, spent much of his time playing with numbers and other investigations in mathematics.

          There are all kinds of possibilities for discoveries when playing with numbers and in no better discipline is Edison’s saying that discovery is 90% perspiration and 10% luck more valid. Seeing the way numbers fit together prepares one to see even more interesting relationships.

  • Wm_James_from_Missouri

    Part 1:

    It’s casual Friday ! Hello, AC, Teacher Steve, Jasto.. (where are you Barry?). Wanted to try to convince some of you to collaborate (or as AC calls it, “torture“) on some great math adventure. All of these great minds on this site wasting all of their grey and white matter arguing but never solving or proving anything. ‘Tis a shame! Really, there is no reason you can’t do both, is there?

    First, some old business. Jasto… last Friday you reiterated your argument about,’ imagining aliens as having far more neural connections than we, allowing them to resolve “our” intractable problems, into self-evident propositions.’ This got me to thinking about different but related items. The first was the concept of circuits or constructs, (such as Pascal’s Triangle ) that by virtue of their construction produce some mathematical output. The simple circuit, here, tends toward Phi, the Golden Ratio ( see Fibonacci Numbers). We must consider the possibility that a brain and our brains or not “just” governed by the number of neural connections and Bayesian “updates” but also by some yet unknown, or underappreciated mathematical relationship, that outputs recursively depending on the local environment.

    • sickofthechit

      Outputs are not only dependent on the local environment, but also the uses the brain has been put to in the past and the reactions it has “received”. charles a. bowsher

      P.S.(Aren’t these kinds of discussions better suited to the James Randi site or JREF forums?)cab

      • Wm_James_from_Missouri

        …but also the uses the brain has been put to in the past and the reactions or results it has “received”. “

        You hit upon the reason for my offering.

        Shake up your neural networks, and you just might get some new outputs.

    • fun bobby

      an infant has the most neural connections and from there the number gets reduced

      • Don_B1

        A sign of learning, as the structure of the connections are a major aspect of the way information is stored in the brain.

        But throughout each human’s life, new neurons are created and old connections are torn apart and new connections are formed between new and old neurons as well as between pairs or more of old neurons.

      • Wm_James_from_Missouri

        Demonstrates that more is not always better, Better is better. Different can be better. Of course there must be a range of different values that make something better. But how do we define better? Better get to work ! : )

  • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

    FTA:
    The federal requirement for gas refiners to mix biofuel in with conventional gasoline is a “flop,” according to Rep. Peter Welch (D-Vt.), and should be eliminated.

    Welch said that the renewable fuel standard, administered by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), drives up the cost of corn, which ends up raising prices for dairy farmers in his state as well as other livestock producers.

    http://hotair.com/archives/2013/10/09/liberal-democrat-i-think-we-can-all-agree-that-the-renewable-fuel-standard-has-been-a-flop/

    • John_in_Amherst

      environmentalists realized corn-based ethanol was a bad idea for a long time. (even cellulosic ethanol is iffy, as it takes a lot of energy to distill/refine ethanol from the aqueous slop ethanol producing bacteria grow in). The drive to incorporate ethanol into gasoline has always been a give-away to agribusiness and the red state corn growers.

      • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

        Agreed. So what are you gonna do about it?

        • Don_B1

          That will take “messing with the Farm Bill,” which is really fraught with all kinds of difficulty, so it may not happen until other political differences are settled.

          That wait is not to the environmentalist’s liking, but they are not the power that you like to attribute to them.

        • John_in_Amherst

          I don’t know. What are you gonna do? I’d say the laws need changed. My lobbyist is tied up for the next few weeks. Letters to reps & senators, letters to the editor & places like this, who knows. Congress can’t get its shoes tied these days. Doing away with the corn subsidies and changing fuels standards ia a tall order…

          • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

            Perhaps you sell yourself short. You won’t know how tall you are until you stand up.

  • sickofthechit

    My latest letter to my “Representative” Andy Barr of KY’s 6th District.

    The intent of the Republicans in delaying the enactment of the ACA is to cause its demise, plain and simple. You all know that if you can get it delayed, there will be another election which will result in even more fractured caucuses on both sides which will lead to even more difficulty in reaching compromises on anything. Your parties greatest fear is that The Affordable Health Care Act (ACA) will be successful. That is what you are fighting over. So please don’t try to convince me at this late date that the Republican Party is trying to “compromise”. Unless of course you are using the word “compromise” as
    in “to weaken anothers position” as in “their defenses were compromised by our heavy shelling”. From what I have seen that is more in tune with your parties’ idea of “compromise”.

    You or your staff can quote cherry-picked data from CBO studies til the cows come home and yet you know, or you should, that long prior to the enactment of the ACA, Medical cost inflation was outstripping general inflation at an alarming
    rate. For decades anyone who hasn’t had their head in the sand on this issue knows that in 30-40 years medical expenses and costs were on track to dwarf all other expenditures in the economy. If we had stayed with the status quo we would have barreled into an unsustainable future
    with 40, 50, 60 million or more Americans without any protection and medical costs eating up nearly the entire budget. The ACA is a flawed attempt at best, but it is a start. To go back now would be madness.

    Under President Bush, Republicans had control of the Presidency, the House and the Senate yet your party did essentially nothing about the 40,000,000+uninsured Americans like myself. If you want to be a real leader, to
    eventually fill the shoes of a Henry Clay in truth, might I suggest that you stand up to your caucus or whatever you call it and say;

    “This is the wrong way to run our portion of this Branch of the government. Let’s pass a clean continuing resolution because hostage taking is not our job, let’s raise the Debt limit because while the sequester is reducing spending there is still more work to be done, but we passed the bills this debt will cover and we are not a deadbeat nation. I oppose the ACA because it doesn’t go far enough. It doesn’t do as much with Wellness Care as it could, it doesn’t draw on enough of the American peoples innovative spirit. We have got to improve it so it really delivers Affordable Health Care to All Americans”.

    Some of your colleagues may live in a world where they can make interest only payments on their debt, but in our world if we try to pay “interest only” we are met with foreclosure.

    Might I also remind you that Speaker of the House Boehner was unable to bring himself to even say the word “compromise” when interviewed two years ago by Leslie Stohl (sp?) on Sixty Minutes? So please don’t sully the memory and legacy of Henry Clay by claiming the Republicans are willing
    to “compromise”. It is a word the current iteration of your party just doesn’t seem to understand or believe in.

    As for your parties feeble attempts to try to look good in the midst of this debacle by passing bits and pieces of legislation. I still find it insulting.

    Less Optimistically

    Charles A. Bowsher

    • fun bobby

      so how much does you insurance cost on the exchange?

      • sickofthechit

        I haven’t checked yet. I am pro se in a lawsuit that is eating up all my time right now. I’m thinking about $100/month since I don’t make a lot of money.

        • fun bobby

          lawsuits are a drag. you might want to check into it, a lot of people are reporting the premiums are higher than they expected

          • Don_B1

            It depends on what they expected, which has been greatly distorted by Republican attacks on the PPACA.

            For those who have been following the costs of health insurance for the last decade and more, and, if they fully paid their own or have employer provided insurance, seen the growth in their cost or their employer’s contribution plus their paycheck deduction, which has been more than the increases they have seen at the government exchanges where private insurance companies post policies and costs.

            The CBO had been predicting much higher premiums that the insurance companies have posted on the exchanges.

  • Ed75

    I thought that the president wouldn’t negotiate at all, and that the Republicans would slowly give in. (I’m not sure if the president if more attached to insurance for all, or to the expansion of abortion.) But the president might negotiate after all since some Republicans are willing to watch President Obama’s economy go right through the floor.

  • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

    FTA:
    Leonard Downie Jr., a former executive editor of The Washington Post, wrote the 30-page analysis entitled “The Obama Administration and the Press.” The report notes President Barack Obama came into office pledging an open, transparent government after criticizing the Bush administration’s secrecy, “but he has fallen short of his promise.”

    “In the Obama administration’s Washington, government officials are increasingly afraid to talk to the press,” wrote Downie, now a journalism professor at Arizona State University. “The administration’s war on leaks and other efforts to control information are the most aggressive I’ve seen since the Nixon administration, when I was one of the editors involved in The Washington Post’s investigation of Watergate.”

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_OBAMA_PRESS_FREEDOM?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-10-10-10-02-45

  • Ed75

    Also Pope Francis will consecrate the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for peace on October 13. The consecration will take place as part of a pilgrimage that will bring thousands of members of groups promoting Marian piety to the Vatican. Saturday is also a special day of Marian devotion on EWTN. This is a huge event.

    • fun bobby

      and the truckers will be shutting down Washington. should be an interesting weekend

      • Ed75

        Love those truckers!

        • Don_B1

          I guess support for a group of radicals wanting to arrest Congressional legislators and remove President Obama from office, actions that would create more or reinforce the chaos that is already a part of Washington politics fits your radical agenda.

  • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

    FTA:
    Washington Metropolitan Police Chief Cathy L. Lanier seems to think that gun-control laws don’t apply to the liberal elite. The police chief helped Sen. Dianne Feinstein acquire “assault weapons,” which are illegal to possess in the District, for a news conference early this year to promote a ban on these firearms, then tried to cover up the police involvement.

    Now, a response to a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request reveals Chief Lanier’s shocking willingness to bend the rules for partisan and ideological purposes.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/9/miller-how-a-senator-got-her-guns-for-a-dc-show-an/#ixzz2hPnGqKXc

    • John Cedar

      All weapons are “defense weapons”.

    • Don_B1

      You seem so willing to be “shocked” by something that is done fairly routinely for education purposes.

      So interesting that it was the Washington Times that described it as “shocking.”

  • John Cedar

    Now that the lower house has compromised yet again and sent over a new great and completely reasonable budget that the senate should simply pass…The House should take up a larger priority and impeach the president.

    While the president cries about the Republicans attempt to withhold funding from Obamcare, (“the law of the land”) as is their right and duty, he is a big fat hypocrite because he unilaterally and illegally granted numerous waivers to his signature law and enacted a delays as well.Of course this is just icing on the cake, as he did the same thing with the dream act.

    Who knows…maybe their are still some democrats that are not ultra left wing socialist totalitarians. Maybe some blind faith democrat monkey soldiers will come out of their spell if someone throws water on Obama, like when Dorothy threw water on the evil wicked witch.

    • MrNutso

      I surprised impeachment proceedings didn’t start in January 2011.

    • nj_v2

      [[ Who knows...maybe their are still some democrats that are not ultra left wing socialist totalitarians. ]]

      Life is pretty interesting here on Planet Earth.

      You should stop by and visit sometime.

      • keltcrusader

        lol

    • hennorama

      And here we thought the defunders, birthers, and default deniers were the only wacko birds …

    • John_in_Amherst

      The process of giving waivers (not all of which are favorable to the administration’s friends) was written into the law to ease the transition into it. So how is granting waivers a high crime or misdemeanor?

      BTW, ever think about a career in comedy? With minor tweaking, your comments would be hilarious (as opposed to being evidence of your being sadly delusional)

      • John Cedar

        You like comedy? Why don’t you humor me and point out which page of the bazillion page Obamcare law, allowed the administration to unilateraly delay the employer mandate for a year?

        Why don’t you point out how it is legal to use executive order to implement a sort of Dream Act?

        Please contrast those actions with what the majority party in the lower house is doing, and doing in a constitutionally legal way, to defund Obamacare.

        • John_in_Amherst

          The House GOP is violating the law. Check this from the US criminal code:

        • Don_B1

          Actually it might be more instructive for you to search the 2000 pages (about 500 words per page) for the relevant pages; you might just learn something about the rest of the law in doing that. Otherwise, since the law is available on line, you can do a search for “waivers” and other terms you might find relevant.

          The White House has a post on how its features of a stripped down Dream Act are within the bounds of Presidential Authority.

          While what the Tea/Publicans are doing in probably not unconstitutional, it is definitely outside the bounds of “norms” that most citizens accept, like when businessmen agree to a deal with a handshake rather than requiring reams of legal documents to itemize each action that the parties will allow and disallow.

          In general, I would recommend you carefully and try to absorb the book by Norman Ornstein and Thomas Mann, It’s Even Worse Than It Looks; How the American Constitutional System Collided with the New Politics of Extremism.”

    • Don_B1

      With your misuse of “their” for “there’re” are you just imitating Gregg or are you “both” the same person?

  • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

    FTA:
    Scandal: The IRS official in charge of tax-exempt organizations when the unit targeted Tea Party groups now runs the IRS office responsible for enforcing ObamaCare and may have illegally shared confidential tax data.

    It’s bad enough that no one at the Internal Revenue Service has been meaningfully punished for the targeting of conservative groups before the 2012 election. Now we learn that, for some, the unconstitutional and illegal action was a good career move.

    http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-obama-care/101013-674631-tax-data-shared-with-white-house.htm#ixzz2hPtrV6wL

    • MrStang

      Was she in Bengazi! Too?

      • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

        I would not wish that fate on anyone.

    • TFRX

      What did we say about IBD editorials?

      Oh yeah: Not worth the pixels they’re printed on.

      • Ray in VT

        They make for a good laugh sometimes. Take this one for instance:

        http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/080713-666729-jarrett-gave-benghazi-stand-down-order.htm?p=2

        Title: Valerie Jarrett Gave Benghazi Stand-Down Order.

        • OnPointComments

          Maybe the IBD was speculating on who gave the order since nobody knows where President Obama was during the crisis or what he was doing. Perhaps he needed his rest before the fund raising trip to Las Vegas the next day.

          • Ray in VT

            I thought that he was watching it all on a live stream.

          • TFRX

            I thought he was just watching it out of Air Force One, and selling the photos for campaign money.

            Oh, wait…

          • Ray in VT

            I thought that they didn’t give any orders to get any assets moving. Oh, wait…

      • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

        But the Huffington Post is the home of pure unbiased journalism?

    • nj_v2

      That you and your right-wing plutocratic rags keep calling it a “scandal” does not make it so.

      • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

        Nixon was impeached for less.

    • Don_B1

      It is well-documented that the I.R.S. office in Cincinnati improperly used politically loaded words in various groups names as a trigger to request more information about their purpose, but that included liberal groups as well as conservative ones, and, if fact, it was only a few liberal groups whose 503(d) status was denied.

      House Committee Chairman Issa’s request to the I.R.S. Inspector General was worded so that only the examinations of conservative groups would come to light. In other words, this was another Republican-manufactured “scandal.”

      That is why the whole “scandal thing” disappeared from the MSM, because there was basically nothing there, politically.

      • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

        I see it very differently. I am surprised at how hard you work to avoid the truth.

        • Don_B1

          It really is easy to cherry-pick the way you do to promote false conclusions which favor your agenda.

          It is true that it takes a bit of effort to get the whole story and that is what you and others working to promote the same false ideas count on when you assume that a lot (too many) will accept your false version of the story as the truth.

          I am so sorry to disappoint you in not allowing you to get an easy win on false pretenses.

  • Fredlinskip

    Negotiations with a terrorist:
    “Step away from the bomb.”
    “I’m going to blow ‘er, unless you do exactly what I say.”
    “We’ll be happy to talk to negotiate your grievances after you step away from the bomb. Why would you want to harm your fellow Americans?”
    “Those left standing will thank me for it someday. Jefferson said ‘you’ve got to spill some blood once in a while or something like that’”.
    “Ever occur to you Jefferson used to drink like a fish, especially after Presidency? Founding Fathers disagreed vehemently on lots of subjects.”
    “God is good. I’m going to blow ‘er. I‘m just doing what my Mom ,Grover Koch, taught me.”
    “Come down, bring the country off the ledge and we’ll talk like adults”
    Kablooie.

    • hennorama

      The wise negotiator will stand back far enough, and clear a large enough area, to allow the terrorist(s) to harm only the terrorist(s).

      • Don_B1

        And it looks like that is what happened!

        Public approval of Republicans 28% negative between favorable and unfavorable opinions, worse than December 1991, after failed Impeachment of President Clinton.

        • hennorama

          Don_B1 — good to see that someone got the point.

        • Don_B1

          December 1997!

  • http://read-write-blue.blogspot.com/ RWB

    FTA:
    Oxford, MA – Just two days after Albany, NY unanimously passed, 11-0, the strongest Anti-NDAA resolution in the United States, the people of Oxford, MA passed the Oxford Restoring Constitutional Governance Resolution by a near unanimous margin. This resolution blocks the detention provisions under the 2012 NDAA and the law of war, including the indefinite detention and “targeted killing” of any person, in the City of Oxford.

    http://pandaunite.org/ndaa-2-cities-2-days-oxford-ma-passes-anti-ndaa-resolution-prohibits-targeted-killing/#KOBRA0ZL6CkPdQWq.99

    • fun bobby

      they should pass one of those in Yemen

  • Ray in VT

    The Supreme Court declined to hear Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli’s appeal seeking to uphold the state’s sodomy law:

    http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-10-07/local/42786051_1_terry-mcauliffe-child-predators-virginia-s

    • MrNutso

      And Cuccinelli still refuses to answer if he has engaged in sodomy as was defined by Virginia’s law.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZUJhHWL5VY

      • Ray in VT

        I wonder if he believes that supporting this law flies in the face of the slogan that Virginia is for lovers?

  • fun bobby

    Has NPR run a story on the Truckers Ride for the Constitution that will take place this weekend?

    • MrNutso

      You mean the one organized by Zeeda Andrews who thinks the President OBL are the same person?

      • fun bobby

        who knows what Obama would look like with a beard?

    • Jeff

      It doesn’t fit within the NPR worldview…so it will not be covered.

      • stephenreal

        It really should be the Trucking Industry’s Ride for Politics since they are footing the bill. Let’s just keep it real here fellas.

        • Jeff

          Next thing you’ll tell us is that trucking companies have no right to have a political opinion. Talk about violating free speech rights.

          • stephenreal

            Of course they do and so doesn’t Georgia Pacific, AIG, FACEBOOK and Pepsico. Industry does have a right to march for industrial social welfare too.

          • fun bobby

            is industrial social welfare what the truckers are asking for?

          • stephenreal

            I don’t know but when I hear D.C. and march there is always a policy tweak that comes with it and if the industry lobbyist can make a play for the industry then c’est la vie.

          • fun bobby

            I think their stated goal is to impeach Obama. I doubt too many corporations would want to be associated with that

          • stephenreal

            I don’t know. just an observation.
            In my world only a fool would not parley this anger into policy advantage that benefits the industry.

          • fun bobby

            apparently you have not seen the interview with their spokesperson

          • stephenreal

            I could care less. just an observation. spokesman do get paid right?

          • fun bobby

            it was a woman you misogynist!

          • stephenreal

            take it easy Francis. calm yourself.

        • fun bobby

          I don’t know all the details but I think a lot of these guys are owner/operators and they have been taking up collections to purchase fuel so they can get to DC

          • stephenreal

            that’s cool. brothers need to stick together.

      • John_in_Amherst

        did someone beam that idea into your head when your aluminum foil hat was off?

        • fun bobby

          that has been happening a lot lately. we need to get that haarp shut down or whatever the source of the mind control microwaves is.

        • stephenreal

          darn is this tinfoil Tuesday already?

    • Ray in VT

      I like how they claim that we can drive fuel costs down to under $1 per gallon.

      • fun bobby

        they have a plan for that? sounds good. I guess if they block all the roads and no one can go anywhere the price of gas would drop real fast.

        • stephenreal

          refine gas used in Vermont comes from Canada or at least that’s what their ambassador told me once.

          • StilllHere

            Does it smell like backbacon, a dead giveaway?

          • stephenreal

            ha! well played.

        • hennorama

          Yes, that’s what happens during a supply crunch — prices always fall.

          • fun bobby

            no one driving would cause a glut of supply of gasoline.

          • Ray in VT

            And what would that do for prices for good on the store shelves if goods don’t get delivered?

          • fun bobby

            good point. I doubt the stores would even have a chance to do much gouging as everything would sell out very fast and the shelves would be empty without truckers. the same with fuel. I better go see if I can find any more ammo today.

          • StilllHere

            You’re going to have to take several steps back to explain simple macroeconomics to him, and don’t confuse him by using widgets.

          • fun bobby

            they should make everyone take econ 101 in highschool

          • Dataninja

            I would have been happy if they had taught you something when you where in school.

            http://youtu.be/yN2_5jlpMFM

          • Don_B1

            Ray in VT understands macroeconomics so much better than either you or fun bobby could even dream of.

          • hennorama

            fun bobby — if such a scenario occurred and lasted more than 24 hours, law enforcement would step in and the trucks and trailers would soon be moved.

            There would be a temporary disruption of gasoline deliveries, and a huge fuel price spike.

        • Don_B1

          It is about as realistic as the Tea?Republican plans to use a government shutdown or the debt ceiling limit to extort cuts in or elimination of the PPACA!

          And the initial demands by the truckers to imprison Senators and Representatives are lunacy that only Rush Limbaugh in his most fantasy-driven hallucination could inspire.

          • fun bobby
          • Don_B1

            If they want to achieve anything real, they at least need to have realistic goals as their main objective.

          • fun bobby

            peace seems a very improbable goal even today and I think its highly unlikely that a flower could stop a rifle bullet.
            I think these guys have a pretty good chance of creating a traffic jam and getting attention for their cause. in fact since we are here discussing them its already a successful protest

    • TFRX

      You really want to leave it there.

      It looks impressive at first, and with the slightest investigation falls apart.

      That ride is one of those charades that even Public Radio Polite can’t fake into “bothsides” crap.

      • fun bobby
        • TFRX

          It’s already a traffic jam.

          Call me when they get to the promised 100 million drivers. Call me when they get a spokeman whose goal isn’t “Remove Obama from the White House”.

          • fun bobby

            looks like you really only need a half dozen or one for each lane of traffic you want to jam up. why would they change their goal now?

  • stephenreal

    It’s official…the Republican party is split into two separate parties. The regular Republicans and the Tea Party/libertarian wing.

    They have to do the Grand Bargain among themselves first.

    • fun bobby

      both libertarians and Tea Partiers would be offended by you lumping them together

      • stephenreal

        of course you can’t be too literal dude when speaking generalities. The point is the split if true and apparent to all.

        • HonestDebate1

          Meanwhile the Democrats are united, they’re all nuts.

          • stephenreal

            as long they don’t tank the market. I’m cool with it.

          • fun bobby

            the market was headed for a correction either way. the time for profit taking was in the summer

          • stephenreal

            I like to buy when people lose their collective minds. Wise man told me once: “Stevie buy when there’s blood in the streets.”
            It’s a risk off market as long as Bernake keeps the printers rolling.

          • fun bobby

            bernake is gone

          • stephenreal

            not yet.

          • jefe68

            I’ll take that over nihilism, mendacity and inanity.

          • HonestDebate1

            I don’t accept your premise but thanks for accepting mine.

      • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

        Then there are (at least?) 3 major factions within the GOP that are irreconcilable…

        • stephenreal

          That’s good question. To me it looks like two with Libertarians breaking with the Tea Party wing.

        • fun bobby

          its a big tent

          • keltcrusader

            with no “IN” doors

          • hennorama

            So is this, and it seems a perfect fit for the TRC (Three Ring Circus) Party, formerly known as the GOP.

    • TFRX

      Why is their internal fight everyone else’s crisis?

      • stephenreal

        because that’s what we call here in the states Madisonian democracy.

        • TFRX

          I think you’re kidding. But I’m not sure.

          Not coming up with a Democratic equivalent, although I only go back a (cough-undisclosed) number of years.

          • stephenreal

            yeah it’s more cavalier then ‘kidding’ but in truth it would appear at least on the optic level you are right.

  • edrea

    I agree — Obama should have made an appearance at APEC, even if more limited than originally planned. However (so far), he’s doing the right thing by staying firm on not negotiating until the shutdown is stopped and the debt ceiling lifted. Boehner balks at a year’s extension on the debt ceiling because it plays well for Democrats in 2014 elections — yet, he only wants to raise it for six weeks to use as political leverage. Why not meet half way and raise the debt limit for six months? Get some real negotiations done in a realistic timeframe with no gimmicks involved. Wouldn’t that play better with both parties’ constituents? Must this be a zero-sum “epic battle”? When do we get past this kind of “politics”?

    • fun bobby

      so you think the president should “Stay firm on not negotiating” and “get some real negotiations done”. and thus the impasse

      • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

        We live in a democracy, not a pirate ship.

        • stephenreal

          I just rolled off my seat in laughter. Well played sir.

        • fun bobby

          arrrrg what does your statement have to do with my pointing out the posters conflicting demands landlubber?

      • edrea

        No, I think he should stay firm on negotiating with a gun to his head — with the government and the debt ceiling held hostage. Why didn’t House Republicans opt to negotiate with House democrats for an entire year? Why did they wait til the end of the fiscal year? Because they figured they could make Obama do their bidding with a boot on his neck. That’s not negotiation. But you knew that already.

    • Don_B1

      There might be an argument for extending the debt ceiling to a level it would hit around August 2014, when the voters would have a dramatic reminder of just how bad things could be if Republicans get returned to office.

      That President Obama is not putting that forward should be taken as a measure of good faith. Because short-term extensions will just lead to more stalemate and then the country will see the hostage taking right up to November 2013 and have a strong feeling of where to place the blame. Already the difference between favorable and unfavorable ratings of the Republican Party is -28%, a record disavowal of a major American political party.

      The way things could go, the Republicans might not be able to elect a party member as a dog catcher in Alabama.

  • nj_v2

    Rethuglicon jackassery of the year:

    House Teabaggers using threat of government shutdown to try to gain passage of an ever-shifting litany of idiotic “demands.”

    Even the radical, pinko USA Today agrees.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/10/09/government-shutdown-republicans-obamacare-debt-ceiling-editorials-debates/2956249/

    New shutdown day, new GOP demand: Our view

    What exactly do the Republicans want? That’s hard to say, given their constantly shifting messages. Let’s recap the past two weeks.

    As the world knows well, congressional Republicans are refusing to reopen the government and are threatening a default on the U.S. debt unless they get what they want.

    But what, exactly, do they want? That’s hard to say, given their constantly shifting demands.

    As a price for extending the debt limit, House Republicans floated an unrealistic wish list that included tort reform, offshore oil drilling, loosening limits on carbon emissions, building the Keystone XL Pipeline, ending “net neutrality” policies and partially defunding the 2010 Wall Street reform law.

    Meanwhile, to prevent a government shutdown, their central demand was killing the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare. That non-starter morphed into a call to delay the law for one year (with the goal of killing it) and repeal its tax on medical devices. Which was followed by an effort to postpone just the law’s requirement that people buy insurance (another tool for gutting it), coupled with grandstanding on whether members of Congress and staffers should have to get their coverage on the Obamacare exchanges.

    Once the shutdown kicked in, along with a wave of public disgust, the emphasisswitched to piecemeal funding of important or popular government functions — without touching Obamacare — and paying furloughed federal workers not to work. Wait a second: Isn’t that what Republicans don’t like about welfare?

    If this weren’t enough of a moving target, the overall Republican strategy now seems to have shifted away from Obamacare and toward broader fiscal issues. The new priorities are entitlement cuts and tax reform, to be hashed out by some reconstituted version of a failed bipartisan supercommittee.…

    (snipped)

    • MrNutso

      This seems fair.

      • sickofthechit

        It seems typical to me. charles a. bowsher

  • J__o__h__n

    I wish Malala won the Nobel Prize. Religious extremists are more of a threat to peace than chemical weapons.

    • Don_B1

      At least chemical weapons can, in theory, be kept contained, whereas religious fanaticism can be viral.

      However, as far as Syria is concerned it might well be the exception, where the claims that renegade military units were the source of the commands to use a chemical attack.

  • nj_v2

    Shutdown, shmutdown. No big deal.

    Who cares if nobody finds out about big oil spills for a week or so?

    http://www.desmogblog.com/2013/10/10/20600-barrels-fracked-oil-spill-north-dakota-publicity-halted-due-government-shutdown

    Over 865,200 Gallons of Fracked Oil Spill in ND, Public In Dark For Days Due to Government Shutdown

    Over 20,600 barrels of oil fracked from the Bakken Shale has spilled from aTesoro Logistics pipeline in Tioga, North Dakota in one of the biggest onshore oil spills in recent U.S. history.

    Though the spill occurred on September 29, the U.S. National Response Center – tasked with responding to chemical and oil spills – did not make the report available until October 8 due to the ongoing government shutdown.

    “The center generally makes such reports available on its website within 24 hours of their filing, but services were interrupted last week because of the U.S. government shutdown,” explained Reuters.

    The “Incident Summaries” portion of the National Response Center’s website is currently down, and the homepage notes, “Due to [the] government shutdown, some services may not be available.”

    At more than 20,600 barrels – equivalent to 865,200 gallons – the spill was bigger than the April 2013 ExxonMobil Pegasus pipeline spill, which spewed 5,000-7,000 barrels of tar sands into a residential neighborhood in Mayflower, Arkansas.…

    (snipped)

    • fun bobby

      I wish I knew sooner now I am going to have to cancel my vacation to North Dakota

      • nj_v2

        It’s all about you.

        • fun bobby

          am I supposed to feel bad for the north Dakotans who have turned their state in to a pincushion of oil and gas wells?

      • HonestDebate1

        Starting pay at Walmart is $17/hour.

        • fun bobby

          in that case I probably could not afford to go there anyways

          • Ray in VT

            It’s relative, of course, but they’ve also seen a pretty big spike in crime over the past few years.

          • fun bobby

            I am sure that happens whenever there are boom towns and mineral rushes

          • Ray in VT

            Yeah, that is what I’ve seen it linked to. A large influx of youngish single men.

        • Don_B1

          At the Vice-Presidential level?

    • hennorama

      Hucking fell.

      • TFRX

        The oil is in western ND, isn’t it? That’s upriver of a lot of farming folk in ND. Are we talking the Red River that flows N into Manitoba, and how long before this becomes an international crisis?

        Or is it “just” going to flow to the Mississippi River watershed.

        • fun bobby

          maybe its just a plot to destroy the Manitoba hemp crop!

        • hennorama

          TFRX – yes, the Bakken formation covers most of the western third of North Dakota, and extends into northeastern Montana and southern Saskatchewan. It is a deep (about two miles) part of the HUGE Williston basin.

          Here’s a good report from the Federal Reserve of Minneapolis:
          http://www.minneapolisfed.org/publications_papers/fedgazette/oil/

          The spill occurred about nine miles northeast of Tioga, North Dakota, and fortunately is far removed from any surface lakes, rivers, or streams. Tioga is about 40 miles south of the Canadian border.

          Here’s more from Reuters (edited for space considerations):

          “The leak did not pose an immediate threat to groundwater sources, Kris Roberts, who leads the environmental response team at the state Department of Health told Reuters.

          “At an estimated 20,600 barrels, it … is the biggest oil leak on U.S. land since March, when the rupture of an Exxon Mobil pipeline in Mayflower, Arkansas spilled 5,000 to 7,000 barrels of heavy Canadian crude.

          “While authorities said no lakes, streams or rivers were within five miles of the spill, the incident could provide ammunition to activists who contend water supplies could be endangered by construction of the proposed Keystone XL pipeline from Canada to Oklahoma.

          “The pipeline was shut immediately and the leak is now contained,” said Tina Barbee, a Tesoro spokeswoman.

          “A day after [farmer Steven Jensen discovered the leak on Sept. 29 while harvesting wheat on his 1,800-acre farm,] Jensen reported the leak to an 811 line, the company sent its response team and burned oil that had accumulated on the spot.

          “Tesoro also dug containment ditches 14 feet deep around the area to limit the effects of the leak, which occurred below ground, North Dakota State Representative David Rust said.

          “Three excavators were scooping up contaminated soil and dumping it into yellow shipping containers late on Thursday. Security personnel kept trespassers at bay while men in hard hats worked on the site.”

          See:
          http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/10/tesoro-spill-northdakota-idUSL1N0I019120131010

    • William

      The energy business is a dirty business.
      There has been more discussion on the killing of eagles around the world due to wind turbines.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/9978864/Are-wind-turbines-killing-eagles.html

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/13/wind-farms-eagle-deaths_n_3915629.html

  • William

    Jack, could you comment on the prison sentence handed down this week in Detroit to former Democratic Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick. Was 28 years too severe, too light or just right? The former Democratic Mayor limited his response to “I messed up”. Not to be confused with Obama’s comment “people messing with me” a few weeks ago. Is this going to harm Mayor Cory Booker’s run for the Senate? Can the Democratic Party recover from the loss of one of their brightest rising super stars?

    • J__o__h__n

      What does Cory Booker have in common with Kwame Kilpatrick (besides the obvious racist link)?

      • William

        Both are Mayor’s of failed big cities and Democratic super stars. Booker has been taking “confidential” annual payouts while in office from his former employer. And that former employer took in 2 million in payments from the city during the same time. Now Booker might have been entitled to this payout, but the appearance of corruption is there and should be exposed. Especially, given the Obama administration desire for transparency in government.

    • TFRX

      Keep JAQing it. Keep dragging Obama’s name in something that has nothing to do with him. Keep dragging Booker’s name into this too.

      This ain’t Neil Cavuto’s show, you troll.

      • William

        Obama is the leader of the Democratic Party. I would have seen a comment by Jay Carney on this important case which locked up a Mayor from a major city, well, Detroit, but still, a huge victory for the justice system in fight corruption in our political system. You should embrace this fight instead of defending people like that.

        • TFRX

          I’m not defending anyone, you troll.

          Keep JAQing it.

          And I love your idea of “rising stars” for the left. Maybe it’s been too corrupted by “rising star” from the right: A married pol who’s under 50 and not yet been caught with a live cabana boy or a dead girl.

          • William

            So, a troll is a person that reports the news that you find “uncomfortable” …how narrow minded are you?

          • TFRX

            I’m done trying to talk sense to you, troll.

          • William

            You need to talk some sense into yourself.

          • Don_B1

            From Wikipedia:

            “In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2]extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally[3][4] or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[5] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[6]”

            From Urban Dictionary:

            1) “A person whose sole purpose in life is to seek out people to argue with on the internet over extremely trivial issues. Such arguments can happen on blogs, Facebook, Myspace and a host of others.”

            2) “An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.”

            You, William, [Dis]HonestDebate (particularly), StillHere, and RWB are my candidates for “Troll” designation, although there are a few others that might fit one of the above designations.

        • MrNutso

          Obama is the leader of the country. Debbie Wasserman Schultz as Chairwoman of the DNC is the head of the Democratic party.

    • StilllHere

      Excellent questions, Jack & Tom likely want to put this behind them.

  • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

    The way a democracy is *supposed* to work is by voting. Not extortion.

    What *exactly* do the Republicans want, anyway? Tell me why the government is shut down?

    • HonestDebate1

      It is shut down because Obama wants it shut down.

    • John_in_Amherst

      they want it because they couldn’t win at the polls

  • nj_v2

    Recons against the EPA and shutdown, except when it benefits them and their own corporate interests.

    http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/10/10/2761311/republicans-celebrate-shutdown-epa/

    Republicans Downplay The EPA’s Closure During The Shutdown — Except When It Hurts Their Districts

    The U.S. government has been shut down for more than a week now, and some congressional Republicans are cheering the fact that their refusal to pass a clean continuing resolution or budget is preventing agencies like the EPA from protecting public health and welfare.

    But only, it seems, when the agency isn’t working on issues important to their districts.

    Rep. Steve King (R-IA) said on Wednesday that he didn’t see why EPA couldn’t just continue writing a biofuels standard that the Congressman supports. “I don’t know that a month delay, perhaps, at EPA is something that is going to push us back that far.”

    King is a big proponent of biofuels, and Iowa leads the nation in corn-based ethanol production. The industry that has given most to Rep. King over his career is the crop production and processing sector — $373,890.

    If the renewable fuels standard requires staff time at the expense of working on carbon rules for power plants, King said, “I’m willing to stall off an EPA rule just to let those coal producers stay in the marketplace.”

    However, conservative media and other prominent House Republicans thought the country would be better off without the EPA.

    Rep. Marsha Blackburn (R-TN) cheered the fact the agency can’t protect air, water, and public welfare during the shutdown:…

    (snipped)

    • TFRX

      Steve King. Marsha Blackburn.

      Talk about yer “usual suspects”, Captain renault.

  • MrNutso

    Right on Diane. The whole concept of a debt ceiling is ludicrous. We should be obligated to pay all debts including borrowing additional money with no cap.

  • stephenreal

    I stand with Speaker Boehner. The options are all bad if he goes down.

    • lobstahbisque

      Sounds dirty….

  • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

    The votes don’t exist to keep the government closed.

    • Ray in VT

      But perhaps there is the will.

      The suggestion is that there are enough votes to reopen the government via a clean CR, given the statements of a number of GOP Congressmen, although the will or the desire does not seem to be there for the House leadership to allow such a measure to come to the floor.

      • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

        You said it much better than I did.

        • TFRX

          Al Madrigal said it even better.

  • nj_v2

    Buh byeTea Party.

    • jefe68

      Not so sure about that.

  • hennorama

    On October 9, 2012, Malala Yousafzai was shot in the head and neck by Taliban gunmen while returning home on a school bus.

    One year and one day later, this brave activist for girls’ education won the Sakharov Prize for Freedom of Thought.

    Her story gives one continued hope for the world. We need more like her.

    See:
    http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/10/world/malala-wins-sakharov-prize/index.html

    • fun bobby

      the nobel committee really dropped the ball

    • sickofthechit

      You really want to see her shine, check out her interview on the Daily show with Jon Stewart. Her bravery brought tears to the eyes of this old curmudgeon.

      • hennorama

        sickofthechit — TY for your response.

        I’ve been following Malala’s story since she first came to international attention, and I watched the Daily Show interview, as well as the extended interview..

        She is truly amazing. BTW, her hometown of Mingola, is in northwest Pakistan, roughly halfway (about 50 miles) between the border and Abbottabad, where Osama bin Laden’s compound was located.

        You can watch the three part interview starting here:
        http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-october-8-2013/exclusive—malala-yousafzai-extended-interview-pt–1

  • OnPointComments

    I was not at all surprised to read that Eric Holder and the DOJ had a hand in denying the death benefits to the families of soldiers that had been killed. Holder frequently does President Obama’s dirty work.

  • Casey Reyner

    The biggest reason the republicans what to stop the ACA is that if it is a success they will lose a lot of elections next year.

    • OnPointComments

      If the healthcare website is any indication, success is a long way off.

  • StilllHere

    Lessons so far:
    Sequester, no big deal.
    Shutdown, what shutdown.
    Default, bring it.
    Every day is another proof that government is too big.

    And before the usual losers start whining using 3-syllable words you don’t understand the meaning of, I wrote too big, not that it shouldn’t exist. Commence a whining.

    • jefe68

      This is the logic of a nihilist.

    • MrNutso

      Let me wave my magic wand and turn you into a single mother working a minimum wage job, or an 80 year old on social security and medicare and see how well it works for you.

      • TFRX

        We call that “Rod Serlingesque”.

        • MrNutso

          The Sequesterzone.

      • stephenreal

        there’s no place like home. there’s no place like home. there’s no place like home.

    • stephenreal

      That’s what we call “magical thinking” in the business. I prefer the scientific method myself especially when you have skin in the game.

    • TFRX

      You were better off being just a troll, not some nihilist.

      Why is this nihilsm crap so popular now that a Democrat’s inthe White House?

      • jefe68

        It’s all they have left. It’s not a good thing.

      • fun bobby

        anarchy seems preferable to a totalitarian nanny state?

    • OnPointComments

      I watched Senator Tom Coburn speak on the Senate floor yesterday about the government’s “Use it or lose it” spending policy. Waste on an epic scale.

      • fun bobby

        that’s what I have been saying is the root of our problem for a while. its the first thing you are taught when you go for a public administration degree. your job as a bureaucrat is to spend every penny in your budget and to ask for more the next year.

        • fun bobby

          I wish the person who downvoted this could explain why it upset them. its a simple statement of fact

  • Fred_in_Newton_MA

    Fighting words, Cruz.
    You want to TAKE AWAY affordable health insurance from MY KIDS?
    Say that to my face, pal, & I’ll tell you what I think of you and your screwball fellow travelers.

    • fun bobby

      are you guys still voting for that david linksy idiot over there? how old are your kids? we have romneycare here in MA

      • Fred_in_Newton_MA

        My kids are in their 20s, thanks, & on their own.

        As to Linsky, not my district, but you got me looking at what he’s sponsored – this one looks sensible:

        State Rep. David P. Linsky announced today that he has filed “An Act
        to Reduce Gun Violence and to Protect the Citizens of the
        Commonwealth,” comprehensive gun violence prevention legislation aimed
        at closing loopholes in existing state laws, requiring mental health
        background checks, strengthening gun storage requirements, and
        requiring liability insurance for gun owners.

        • fun bobby

          the details of that insane bill are far from sensible. we have the most foolish gun control scheme and the highest “gun crime” of all the new England states

          • Dataninja

            The good news is the Chief of Worcester will never give a nutcase like you a concealed carry license. Especially after seeing this.
            http://youtu.be/yN2_5jlpMFM

    • JGC

      Ssshhhh! Senator Cruz is trying to concentrate on his next dramatic soliloquy for the American people, excerpts from “Hop on Pop”.

      • TFRX

        Hey, that’s an insult…to Ted Geisel.

        “Quick Henry, the Flit!”

        • JGC

          (Senator Cruz furrows brow, places hand over heart and begins in a low, determined voice:) Up. Pup. Pup is UP!

          …(Continues dramatic rendition, then builds to the conclusion, raising voice, sonorous, proud, stabbing air with index finger:) SAY! SAY! WHAT DOES THIS SAY?!

          (Drops voice. low with gravitas:) Ask me tomorrow, but not…today…

          • stephenreal

            these Ivy leaguers.

  • LostInSight

    The reason for this lock down, and the reason we will see real damage done, is very simple. The super rich of this country don’t want to pay for the entitlements the American people give to themselves. The danger to the super-rich increases as wealth shifts to them from the working classes. They have the power to stop the government and they are unharmed. The real problem is wealth disparity. We must institute mechanisms to limit wealth, and to force wealth back down the economic ladder so that the American people will have the money to pay for what they want.

    • OnPointComments

      Is that you, Chairman Mao?

      • LostInSight

        Democracy and wealth are incompatible. Mao was a dictator and not a democrat. You’re in the wrong rhetorical stadium.

        • OnPointComments

          No, it’s communism and socialism that are incompatible with wealth.

          • stephenreal

            Britain and it’s industrial age economic theory. some of it is still true today

          • LostInSight

            Socialism uses wealth to benefit more people, so it is true that it is incompatible with private wealth. But Socialism and Democracy are compatible. Private wealth, when you look at the effect of wealth on elections, undermines the ability of the people to collectively manage their society.

            I’m guessing you equate democracy with personal freedom. But personal freedom that results in high personal wealth results in freedom for the few who are wealthy and serfdom for the rest. Thus the freedom you want destroys democracy for the rest of us.

            Democracy is a political system whose purpose is to distribute power. If you want to concentrate power, you are fighting democracy.

            I get your intent. Let’s just try to agree on the language.

      • stephenreal

        I think I can turn him on to a hundred flowers blooming when we take the Appalachian mountains.

  • atakemoto

    The non tea party republicans are too afraid of the wealth of the Koch brothers to stand their ground. It’s all about the money.

    • MrNutso

      I think it’s actually about power. Republicans will have no power in government without welcoming tea partiers.

      • atakemoto

        Because the tea partiers have the backing of people like the Koch brothers, they can buy new seats in the house and senate and force out more
        traditional republicans. Again, it’s still about the money.

  • Lars Grant-West

    It seems to me that the Tea Party, who arguably is at the root of this – is ironically going to benefit if the shutdown continues or we default. The tide to “kick the bums out” – ALL of them – is likely to grow. Aren’t the red states then likely to just elect more Tea Party candidates as people crave a fresh face instead of the same old politicians?

    • stephenreal

      what will happen is eventually the Republicans will lose the house over time and they’ll have their districts redrawn by the Democrats. shear demographics

      • fun bobby

        do you really think their base is blaming the tea part for this?

        • TFRX

          I don’t care.

          This is like being in a bar with a loudmouth blowhard: Let’s you (the Tea Party) and them (the moderate R’s) fight.

        • stephenreal

          It’s wrapped up in this evangelical world view and this historical narrative thing

      • MrNutso

        I think that will be more difficult than you think. Democrats will have to gain more control in state legislatures to be able to draw fairer congressional district lines. And they will have to maintain control since redistricting between decennial census are becoming for frequent.

        • stephenreal

          biology is a wonderful thing isn’t it. takes care of a lot of political problems

  • MrNutso

    Diane, why should Republican save face?

    • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

      Nobody forced them to act stupidly.

      Poor l’il Johnny Boehner might lose his job…

    • Jeff

      Republicans are already getting the blame, so honestly they might as well get something out of this. The president has a lot more to lose with a shutdown under his administration or even an economic collapse.

      • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

        The Republicans are just as responsible for the future of the country as the President is. They also swore to uphold the Constitution, too.

        • Jeff

          The US Constitution gives the power of spending to Congress…even Madison (father of the Constitution) said that was the purpose of the US Constitution to allow the president wide powers but to go back to Congress to pay for those expenditures.

      • jefe68

        They created this problem.

      • TFRX

        Yeah, let’s not worry about what Republicans do when they’re losing. It’s been described that it’s not much different than when they’re winning.

        I’m just curious how little the flip idea “Dems are getting blamed, so they should get their pound of flesh” ever gets said in the press.

      • sickofthechit

        You sound like the confused senator who when asked what they want he said something like. “I don’t know, but we should get something for this….” charles a. bowsher

  • J__o__h__n

    It should be a total defeat. The Republicans disgraced themselves and have no one else to blame for looking childish, unreasonable, and incompetent.

  • TFRX

    The Democratic President needs to rise Above Partisan Politics, per Brady.

    Okay, that’s hilarious.

    I ask yet another mainstream media figure:

    Why is bipartisanship always “The Democrats Have To Start the Process By Giving In?

    Bipartisanship? Sure! The Right can go first!

    • jefe68

      She’s showing her colors here.

    • MrNutso

      Bipartisanship is Democrats doing what Republicans want.

    • David Stewart

      The thing is the Democrats already made concessions. They passed the continue resolution at the funding levels the Republicans wanted. It was a done deal until the House GOP decided to renege on their agreements.

  • http://www.judydunn.net/ Judy D

    I have never been more turned off by politics. As someone who is a news junkie, I am starting to change the channel. I am tired of the same old, same old.
    I am 56 y.o. and I have never seen such crazy in Washington. We thought sequestration was going to be a line no one wanted to cross. Now we have passed that line, and shut down the government. This is a death by a thousand cuts. I am in despair. I question my long term desire to live in this country.

    • Mari McAvenia

      Ditto.

    • TFRX

      Mission Accomplished.

      (At least for one side.)

    • fun bobby

      where will you go?

      • http://www.judydunn.net/ Judy D

        Who knows. Odds are I won’t leave. But the fact that I am even considering it is saddening to me.

        • fun bobby

          the sad fact is there in not any place better to go to

      • jimino

        Maybe it’s the same place all those “makers” who refuse to pay any more taxes and say they’re leaving go. At least she has a good chance of finding what she’s looking for.

        They don’t.

  • jefe68

    You know Major Garret hit the nail on the head. The GOP has won the day by making government so dysfunctional that more Americans are becoming so cynical and dissatisfied that they will wash their hands of it all. There by letting more of the extremist win more seats and governorships state houses.
    In some way this has been their object all along. They want to President Obama to fail. That was the agenda all along.

    By the way this woman, Diane Brady is wrong. I can’t believe that she has the nerve to say the President should give into extortion. It will not stop there. This will keep happening over and over again.

  • William

    Wow…that caller is mad!

    • jefe68

      She’s an idiot.

  • TFRX

    Tom, can you have caller Beth back up what she “hears”?

  • jefe68

    This woman caller is an example of how misinformation breeds contempt.

  • OnPointComments

    Nothing about the Obama Shutdown Theater and the storm troopers that enforced it. Don’t look at Mount Rushmore. Don’t walk in the open air WWII memorial. Don’t go in the ocean. Don’t pay the soldiers’ families. Close those private businesses.

    • jimino

      Now we got the so-called small government gang demanding the government run tourist sites. Is that really what you think is an essential government service?

  • nj_v2

    More Recon jackassery: thirteen idiot debt-ceiling-is-no-big–deal Cons:

    RAND PAUL, MO BROOKS, TED YOHO, RICHARD BURR, STEVE KING, TOM COBURN, RON JOHNSON, DAVID SCHWEIKERT, JEB HENSARLING, ORRIN HATCH, PAT TOOMEY, JOE BARTON

    http://www.salon.com/2013/10/09/13_debt_ceiling_truthers/?source=newsletter

    Meet 13 debt ceiling truthers

    The 13 Republicans who say hitting the debt ceiling is no big whoop

    Rep. Mo Brooks

    “We have 10 times as much tax revenue as we’ve got annual interest on the debt obligations. So if the president does not want us to default on our credit or obligations, we won’t.”

    Rep. Ted Yoho

    “I think, personally, it would bring stability to the world markets.”

    Sen. Richard Burr

    “We always have enough money to pay our debt service.”

    Sen. Rand Paul

    “It really is irresponsible of the president to try to scare the markets. If you don’t raise your debt ceiling, all you’re saying is, ‘We’re going to be balancing our budget.’ So if you put it in those terms, all these scary terms of, ‘Oh my goodness, the world’s going to end’ — if we balance the budget, the world’s going to end? Why don’t we spend what comes in?”

    Rep. Steve King

    “I don’t think the credit of the United states is going to be collapsed. I think that all this talk about a default has been a lot of demagoguery, false demagoguery. We have plenty of money coming in to service the debt.”

    Sen. Tom Coburn

    “I would dispel the rumor that is going around that you hear on every newscast that if we don’t raise the debt ceiling we will default on our debt. We won’t.”

    Sen. Ron Johnson

    “I believe [breaching the debt ceiling] can be managed responsibly without creating some kind of crisis or some kind of economic calamity. Again, I just – I cannot emphasize enough how irresponsible I think it is that the Treasury secretary or the president of the United States is talking that way. They should be trying to calm the markets.”

    Rep. David Schweikert

    “I will hear language like, ‘Well, we are heading toward the debt ceiling and you are going to default.’ Anyone that says that is looking you in the eyes and lying to you, either that or they don’t own a calculator.”

    Rep. Jeb Hensarling

    “The bottom line is, Treasury has the ability to manage that…”

    Sen. Orrin Hatch

    “It is irresponsible for high-ranking government officials to stoke fear into the marketplace and sentiments of the American people based on personal conjectures…”

    Sen. Roy Blunt

    “Prioritize the order in which you pay your bills? That’s no definition of default I’ve ever heard used in any way. Default is when you don’t pay your loan. Prioritizing how you pay your bills is prioritizing how you pay your bills.”

    Sen. Pat Toomey

    “First of all, there is zero chance that the U.S. government is going to default on its debt. It’s unfortunate that people have conflated this idea of not raising the debt ceiling immediately on October 17 with somehow defaulting on our debt. We bring in in tax revenue about 12 times as much money as it takes to pay our interest on our debt. There is no way that any Treasury secretary or administration would willfully choose to have the catastrophic results that would occur if we actually defaulted on our debt when it’s not necessary.”

    Rep. Joe Barton

    “We have in my household budget some bills that have to be paid and some bills that only paid partially … This talk about default by the U.S. Treasury is nonsense.”

    • stephenreal

      and don’t call me Francis or I’ll kill ya!

  • HLB

    What a hoot is how delusional THE GUESTS are on this show. America is telling them what’s going on OUT HERE and they reject it; don’t listen to it; don’t get it; then they don’t believe it. Even the host of the show is having trouble understanding REAL WORLD AMERICA.

    I love it. Shut it OFF. All of it.* And the send the foreign college students home, too.

    Thanks much. HLB

    * Except for the VA. {yep, everyone has an ox to protect}

    • jefe68

      OK, lets let nihilism win. Then what genus.

  • Jeff

    Where’s the discussion about 40%+ of the US population not noticing a single difference in their daily life with the federal government shutdown? Most of the shutdown effects are self imposed…like closing national parks (like they’d be destroyed if they were left open) and putting up fences and signs to prevent people from entering national monuments/memorials.

    • jefe68

      What about the 50%+ that are?

    • nj_v2

      A little fuzzy on what comprises a functional society, are we?

    • StilllHere

      That sounds low.
      There are also those affected who support the fight.
      Let’s hear about them as well.
      Instead it’s 24/7 whiners who are delaying purchases of new GPS watches. I’m gonna start crying…

      • nj_v2

        ^ Troll

        • Mari McAvenia

          Desperate troll. There are a few of ‘em here who hit the down-vote button as soon as they see a familiar avatar they don’t like. Kneejerk reactive nihilists, nothing more.

          • nj_v2

            Pathetic, vacuous, useless, desperate troll.

    • stephenreal

      where are you guys making up your statistics from?

    • TFRX
    • sickofthechit

      They are poaching game and ginseng here in KY. It is our nation’s most valuable asset (after people) and I for one don’t want it pillaged by a bunch of out of control greedy, maniacs.

    • lobstahbisque

      40% of the population is brain dead.

  • HLB

    Why we’re at it let’s just KILL OFF Article I. In the 1800s it had a function. No longer.

    Evolution: it’s about killing off what doesn’t work. And Congress.. doesn’t work. Cap it w. Walter White effectiveness.

    Thanks much. HLB

  • Yar

    It seems like their is a bad batch of antipsychotics out there. Beth check your meds, with the FDA and CDC shut down how will she get the help she needs. Who knows she may be charging the barriers at the White house next week.

  • Roy-in-Boise

    As Thomas Freedman stated in an earlier show. If the POTUS caves on the GOP demands democracy as we know it is over. The President simply cannot budge on this one.

    • StilllHere

      Then he can accept blame for the consequences. Is he man enough? Doubtful.

  • mother_ness

    Americans love military metaphors. Why can’t some see one when it’s so obvious? What the Republicans are doing is holding our government services and fiscal reputation HOSTAGE. Obama is taking the position that any president should take – he’s not negotiating with hostage takers. Stand firm Obama.

    • StilllHere

      Then he can accept blame for the consequences. Is he man enough? Doubtful

    • stephenreal

      I hate that hostage metaphor personally it comes across as a party chat point

  • OnPointComments

    Unsubstantiated quote from President Obama: I spent $634 million and three years, and all I got was this lousy healthcare website that doesn’t work.

    • TFRX

      Unsubstantiated? Nice to know you’re keeping to your standards.

      • jefe68

        This guy has no standards.

    • StilllHere

      That sounds like him, I’ll look for a citation.

  • coyotejazz

    Just so special to hear your guest talk about what we can be done for the Republicans so that they can save face. Here’s an idea… they ALREADY have won their big prize… they have damaged the government, damaged millions of people, frightened people abroad and set the stage for even more insanity. Just the ticket for our banana republicans! Has to be a big win in their book! Who needs face saving? They are no doubt winners by their measure…

  • jefe68

    Cut to the chase? Tom you let Beth rave on an on forever and you cut this woman off. Then you cut off this other one who made a valid and intelligent point. Do your job sir.

  • Steve_the_Repoman

    I was enjoying the change of seasons this past week while hiking at Lapham Peak – an area in the Southern Kettle Moraine in Wisconsin.

    The area contained a small memorial to Increase Lapham dedicated in 1916.

    A very short sentence described him as a “useful citizen”.

    How many of us would describe ourselves thus?

  • sickofthechit

    My apologies to current guests, but the shaky roll out of the Affordable Health Care Act is due in part to to many idiot reporters and others with Health Care coverage already calling up and tying up the limited resources on useless calls! While legitimate enrollees are blocked from registering. charles a. bowsher

    • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

      It also shows how many people WANT to have health insurance!

    • TFRX

      Still waiting for Public Radio to cheer about how I’m not stuck to my crappy job by my crappy, but enrolled, job-based health plan.

      (Not describing myself. All pronouns are proverbial.)

    • fun bobby

      yeah there are so many reporters they are crashing the system.

  • StilllHere

    Thank you caller!

  • AC
  • Bob_in_RI

    Best case scenario for the GOP: Worldwide recession, Yuan becomes the reserve currency, and President Hillary Clinton presides over an overwhelmingly Democratic Congress. Go for it!

  • sickofthechit

    Has anyone mentioned the fact that most of these federal workers have not had a raise in three or more years! To top it all off they are talking of paying them for lost wages. So how fiscally responsible is this on the part of the Repugnicans (copyright 2009 charles a. bowsher).

  • sickofthechit

    The Democrats can’t blink because they are being asked to pay off kidnappers.

  • bethrjacobs

    I am talking about just an everyday Federal worker complaining that his “kid” couldn’t stay in private collage out of state if the furlough continued

    • stephenreal

      I’d love to work at club Fed.

      • StilllHere

        Could try applying but you’ll have to wait until Tuesday. They’ve got Monday off. Nice.

      • jimino

        Enlist.

    • bethrjacobs

      complaining on NPR no less

    • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

      What about the millions of children who are losing their food? Or the veterans who are not getting the help they deserve? What about the oil spills and food safety, and the housing payments of the thousands of government workers?

      • bethrjacobs

        so you would compare them I can’t afford food and would prefer to not fund animal research or nuclear weapons and work at an outreach program that feed the poor or any one who shows up what do you do?

        • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

          I’m with you on nuclear weapons, and let’s throw in the F35 $1.5 TRILLION that can’t even fly in the rain.

          Closing the government is just dumb. And what is the reason are the Republicans saying today?

    • TFRX

      Yes, what about the veterans’ meals on wheels getting cut off? Michele Bachman and a posse of Fox News cameras can’t make that go away.

      Please, talk about data which isn’t “anec”.

      • bethrjacobs

        please use proper English what is “anec” my computer doesn’t know how to reference it

        • StilllHere

          Anecdotal, he doesn’t like your’s, only his.
          Ignore him, you’ll be happier.

          • bethrjacobs

            Thank you StillHere I thought as much

    • nlpnt

      So you expect professionals – doctors, lawyers, engineers and the like who work for the Feds to work for McDonalds wages and be treated as political punching bags. O-kay.

      • bethrjacobs

        Yup or prove thier job is necessary can you afford medical school or law school ?

  • TFRX

    Caller Jim at :48 asks “Why can’t the President blink”, while the other side is actually saying “let’s blow it up, let’s break up the Union, Texas can flirt with secession, let’s let the country default.

    That’s just ill-informed by the caller.

  • MrNutso

    So caller, wanting to maintain a program that will provide health insurance for those who can’t afford or even get it is bad for the country?

    • OnPointComments

      I’m still waiting on my health insurance premiums to go down by $2,500 as President Obama promised numerous times. So far it’s gone up 50%.

      • jefe68

        Then don’t buy any and pay the fine.

      • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

        The system was already broken, and the problems will not be solved overnight. Sorry.

      • pete18

        Don’t forget these other lies:

        Deception #1: universal
        coverage

        Obama’s promise: “I will sign a universal
        health care bill into law by the end of my first term as president that will
        cover every American” (June 23, 2007).

        Deception #2: no new
        taxes on the middle class

        Obama’s promise: “I can make a firm pledge
        under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of
        tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains
        taxes, not any of your taxes” (September 12, 2008).

        Deception #3: annual
        premium savings of $2,500

        Obama’s promise: “We’ll lower premiums by up to
        $2,500 for a typical family per year. .  .  .
        We’ll do it by the end of my first term as president of the United States”
        (June 5, 2008).

        Deception #4: no
        increase in the deficit

        Obama’s promise: “I will not sign a plan that
        adds one dime to our deficits” (September 9, 2009).

        Deception #5: you can
        keep your plan if you like it

        Obama’s promise: “If you like your doctor, you
        will be able to keep your doctor, period. If you like your health care plan,
        you’ll be able to keep your health care plan, period. No one will take it away,
        no matter what” (June 15, 2009).

        http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/health-reform-breaks-bad_762272.html?nopager=1

  • sickofthechit

    Major Garrett rocks the facts!

    • MrNutso

      I wish he was on every week.

  • jefe68

    Meanwhile the Trans Pacific Partnership is being negotiated behind closed doors and which is NAFTA on steroids.

    • nj_v2

      Damn that socialist Obama!

      • jefe68

        Have you been reading about this deal?
        It’s not good. You and I both know Obama has always been a centrist and I would go so far as to say a conservative Democrat. Which shows you how far the right has moved to the extreme.

        • fun bobby

          oboma is a neocon

  • svolante

    It is important to be civil in this kind of forum and in civil discourse in general But Beth is the voice of self-pitying victimhood that drives me up the wall. She is oblivious to the fact that she and people like her benefit from government policies such as tax cuts, the mortgage interest deduction, Medicare, Social Security, government support for education, the military, and yes, medical research. The next time she gets sick and goes to the doctor, she can refuse any treatment or medication that was developed thanks to federal, taxpayer funded research. As the Economist’s Democracy in America blogger wrote in January:

    “Most [Americans] are still in denial over their role in
    America’s fiscal drama. And as long as they are able to find convenient scapegoats for the country’s fiscal challenges they will oppose the infliction of pain on themselves. Someone needs to tell these people, it’s not them, it’s you.”

    • StilllHere

      Only Democrats could think that a benefit to people from government is keeping more of their hard-earned wages. So sad.

      • nj_v2

        ^ Troll

    • Swashbucklr

      Beth is a perfect example of the whiny spite that infects the US. They shout to the world that if they don’t get to have something, no one else should, and are willing to burn down the country they claim to love to keep someone else from getting something. Especially if it’s some “Other” who makes for the convenient scapegoat.
      These people fail to see that we are all part of the system that made this country great, and that they have a responsibility to that system. But on a personal level, she also failed to see that the people she was complaining about are human beings with jobs and families, and that all she succeeded in doing with her call is telling her fellow citizens that she doesn’t give a damn about them.

  • Jeff

    Why aren’t federal workers simply going back to work since they will be repaid in the end? Seriously, these people don’t have enough savings to live for a week or two without pay? I’m sorry but these people will be paid back and should be at work right now!

    • jefe68

      Seriously? What is it with the nihilism on the right?
      It’s as if there is this virus infecting the right.

      • Jeff

        Name one thing I said that isn’t true.

        • jefe68

          Name one thing that was.
          Most Federal employees make an average of 40 to 50K a year.

          • fun bobby

            that’s hardly poor

          • jefe68

            Never said it was. After taxes $78,500 is about $50K a year give or take.

            That’s not the point now is it. The longer these folks go without a pay check the more there savings are depleted.

            I read a story about a border patrol officer, who makes less than 78K a year, is really hurting because of this. This guy is putting his life on the line every day. You think this is a joke?

          • fun bobby

            no the war on drugs is very sad

          • StilllHere

            There’s a drug for that.

          • fun bobby

            perhaps it should be renamed the war on some drugs or even better the “war on drugs that are natural effective and can be made easily and would replace most of the products we currently rely on big pharma for, with the benefit/goal of dramatically increasing the amount of crime and social disarray”
            but that’s too long for an acronym

          • keltcrusader

            lol

          • jefe68

            Yes indeed it is.

          • Jeff

            The figure commonly cited as the “average” federal employee salary now stands at nearly $78,500, an amount that has risen by about $1,800 in the last two years despite a general freeze on salary rates during that time, according to data released Monday.

            http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2013/04/09/despite-salary-rate-freeze-average-federal-salary-rises/

        • StilllHere

          Now you got him. He’s pathetic.

      • fun bobby

        is nihilism your word of the day jefe? are we supposed to drink every time or does pee-wees play house just go nuts?

        • jefe68

          Well it’s ever so present in so many of you regressive right wingers. It fits the narrative.

          • fun bobby

            i am a registered Democrat jefe

        • StilllHere

          Soros gives him $5 per use, though he still doesn’t know what it means. $10 for regressive right winger.

    • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

      Like most of us, they have to pay their bills now.

    • TFRX

      You really need to brush up on “paperwork for middle-schoolers”.

      Would you show up at a job without signing a contract and trust to be paid?

      • Jeff

        Yes, I’ve had many jobs where I work for a few weeks without pay and then I get a check.

        • jefe68

          So?

        • TFRX

          And I’ve had jobs where I’ve worked beforehand, and been promised and those promises weren’t worth the paper they were printed on.

          Going to work before all the i’s are dotted? That’s great when your boss is Ayn Rand.

          • Jeff

            It’s called a legal system, use it if you feel you’ve been cheated.

          • TFRX

            Another fantasy: John Doe, workingman, suing Big Corporation. And John Doe’s future not getting ruined as “that guy who’s bad for business”.

            Give up trying to apply your fantasy anecdote to the real world.

          • Steve__T

            Lawyers don’t work for free and wont except that you have not been paid. Yes some will do it Quid pro quo but not unless it does something for them to do so. That is the meaning of it.

          • StilllHere

            Here’s some more Latin for ya, pro bono.

          • jefe68

            Here’s some Latin for you: Spucatum tauri.

          • jefe68

            I think he thinks he’s Ayn Rand.

          • Jeff

            Actually that’s a picture of Ron Swanson…I could see how you’d be confused if you were a liberal though.

          • TFRX

            I don’t know that Ron Swanson would keep with a fellow like you.

            Ron doesn’t seem like the guy to tell someone “hey, be a sucker and trust a corporation to do the right thing later”.

          • jefe68

            I was not alluding to the picture…

          • Ray in VT

            I don’t know. Ayn Rand looked rather like many men that I see. There has to be an image of her out there somewhere with an awesome ‘stache.

    • nj_v2

      “These people”

      I’m not sure, but i think they might even be a different species.

    • LostInSight

      Are their buildings open? How are they paying for transportation? Do you think they’re so well paid they can afford to absorb the costs of working while being unpaid? How long will the shut down last? do you think its a good risk?

      • Jeff

        These people keep their buildings open, they can open them up themselves. Just like someone with a new job, just do the work and you will get your pay check in a few weeks. Time to live in the real world.

        • TFRX

          Sounds like a Galt’s Gulch fantasy.

  • StilllHere

    Why are Democrats the obstructionist party of “no”?
    Why do they hate America?

    • nj_v2

      ^ Troll

      • Mari McAvenia

        Like a flatulent kid, giggling about the nasty smell he’s just made while pointing the finger at the person closest to him. So juvenile.

        • RoninNY

          Talking about the teapuglickers again?

    • MrNutso

      Because there are too many Republicans.

    • jefe68

      Get a life and grow up already.

    • RoninNY

      They have medication for you. Those delusions can be serious.

  • MrStang

    Yes. The TeaPublican Koch/Petersen Virus christo-oil Zombies must be eradicated.

    • stephenreal

      The Khmer Rouge needs a man like you.

      • MrStang

        The Koch/Petersen Teapublican virus cult has a man like you.

        • stephenreal

          take it easy Francis.

          • MrStang

            The members of the Koch/Petersen Teapublican Zombie cult have not “taken it easy” [see the intransigient and stupid Lee, Cruz, Bachman, Palin, King, Goehmert] yet their authoritarian mindset impels them to Tell others to “take it easy” as if they should be obeyed…these ‘Freedom Lovers’ love to tell others what to do.

          • stephenreal

            this is where I get off the crazy train as I see my stop is coming up.

    • StilllHere

      This is the typical Democrat mindset. It’s a wonder you won’t negotiate.

      • RoninNY

        Negotiate WHAT? If I hold your family hostage, would YOU negotiate a choice of killing your wife or raping your daughter?

        • fun bobby

          so both is better?

    • fun bobby

      but the only people currently equipped for zombie apocalypse , as advised by the CDC, seem to be lunatic conservatives

  • OMA_OPINES

    The game of “Chicken” being played in Washington, one side whose poster bay is Ted Cruz, is a game played by arrogant adolescents who think they will live forever. Perhaps his and his gang’s insistence to delay/defund/destroy the ACA is the unsettling feeling that it may actually work, thus sealing the well-deserved fate of the Tea Party and its hateful members.

    • OnPointComments

      And the other side whose poster boy is President Obama and his lackey Sourpuss Reid. Why wouldn’t Reid and Obama fund the government and stop the shutdown? Because, as President Obama said, “if there’s no political heat, if there’s no television story on it, then nothing happens.” He wanted it to be as painful as possible.

      • lobstahbisque

        Context

        • OnPointComments

          A press conference where President Obama was asked about signing the funding bill passed by the House to keep the government going.

          • stephenreal

            cite your reference. you know like a foot note

        • jefe68

          You want context? You’re asking for way to much.

      • David Stewart

        The Senate has passed a continuing resolution to fund the government at the levels agreed to by the GOP. The President will sign that bill as soon as the House votes on it (and there are votes in the House to pass it, but Boehner won’t bring it up for a vote).

        • hennorama

          David Stewart — eventually the cooler heads will declare victory and go home and then begin to plan their retribution for the fools who led them down this destructive path.

      • RoninNY

        garbage…taking things out of context, just like a good little Pox Nooz sheep.

      • OMA_OPINES

        A least our poster boy has a brain and a conscience/soul/heart.

        • StilllHere

          Are you sure grandma? Seems like he still on the yellow brick road.

          • OMA_OPINES

            There are worse roads to be on. Remember, courage, a heart and a brain were found there. Blessings and peace to you.

          • StilllHere

            Apparently it’s a very long road.
            Right back atcha.

          • jefe68

            Troll.

  • rich4321

    Don’t blink! From my own personal life experience, be that at work
    or at home, if you make a concession, the bullies will just think of you as weak. As the saying goes “give him an inch and he’ll take a mile”, president Obama, don’t give them an iota!

  • John Cedar

    The president doesn’t necessarily need to cave on this.
    The senate and the house should just pass the latest house bill with two thirds and be done with it.
    I would like to thank the GOP for trying to make the president give the same waivers to individuals and unions that he gave to businesses like mine. I saved about a million dollars in fines this/next year thanks to Obama’s waiver he gave me in the 11th hour. Thanks Obama! I knew I could count on you just like Wall Street counted on you with your paper tiger financial reforms.

    • LostInSight

      I like your ironic/sarcastic appraisal which leaves us wondering whether you fit into any particular polemic.

    • RoninNY

      Nice fictional account…what business do you run, manure spreading?

      • Ray in VT

        If so, then I think that my brother is looking to sell his old one.

      • TFRX

        Comparing some people’s blather to manure spreading dishonors the agricultural history and still useful function of actual manure spreading.

      • jefe68

        Home wrecking…

  • RoninNY

    Any news on the truck driver convoy to DC? Saw clips of the organizers saying they’re going to force Obama to step down. What are they carrying in those trucks? manure and LSD?

    • MrNutso

      It’s a rally organized by and avowed Obama hater.

    • TFRX

      Manure and LSD is a regular payload for many trucks.

      Oh, you mean today especially?

    • fun bobby

      seems as thought the lsd shipments to Washington have been right on schedule

    • hennorama

      RoninNY – it was a non-event.

      According to overdriveonline.com (a trucker website):

      “…about 30 trucks showed up Friday, Oct. 11, to the Capital Beltway this morning as part of the planned convoy around Washington’s I-495. A much larger number of trucks was intended to overtake all three lanes and cause a traffic jam to get the attention of lawmakers.

      “Organizers had also talked of shutdowns or other trucker-related activity in other cities, but there appears to be no such reports corroborating anything happened.

      “The convoy and concurrent shutdown — also billed as a buy-nothing protest — had received much in the way of national attention from the likes of cable networks like Fox News and national print and online media like USA Today, CNN, Gawker, Politico and The Washington Post.

      “In a conversation with Fox News this week, one of the coordinators told Fox News 10,000 trucks would be involved in the protest.

      “However, as reported Thursday by Overdrive, the protest, convoy and shutdown had been losing support due to a lack of organization and lack of credibility of its organizers.”

      Two days ago, the same website reported, in an article titled “Ride spokesperson says main goal: Impeach Obama””

      “Ride for the Constitution spokesperson Zeeda Andrews, interviewed Tuesday on Fox News’ “On the Record with Greta Van Susteren,” mentioned trucking “regulations” broadly in describing the convoy’s mission, but also pointed to the effort’s main purpose: “We want the president of the United States removed from office. He is a threat to our national security. He is a threat to our way of life.”

      Truckers aren’t stupid, and they “voted with their wheels” today.

      Source:
      http://www.overdriveonline.com/convoy-shutdown-effort-dubbed-bust-by-national-press/

  • David Stewart

    It is amazing to me that that caller would support the shutdown simply because someone else’s kid is going to a good university. She is supporting a shutdown out of pure spite, willing to harm the future generations of the nation just because they may have a better life than she does. I can’t think of anything less patriot.

    • Jeff

      She was paying for that kid to go to an out of state private school with her taxes.

      • David Stewart

        No she wasn’t. She was paying taxes which provide for services. The person who works in the job providing those services is paying for the education. I don’t get to dictate what hard working people do with the money they earn, whether they are public employees or private employees (my money goes into both).

      • jefe68

        That’s pretty inane logic.
        So what you and that woman, Beth, are saying that employees of the government should not get to send their children to the college of their choice?

        Is this what you so called freedom loving tea party rubes are saying here?

        Boy oh boy, what a maroon.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxGgnI6kCrs

      • TFRX

        Caller’s input is just like the jerk who gets pulled over for speeding and starts immediately ranting “I pay your salary!”

        • jefe68

          Exactly, and they are over the limit as well.
          As this guy is with his memes.

      • http://www.judydunn.net/ Judy D

        Her taxes are to pay for someone to do their job. She seemed to think medical research was a waste of her taxes as well. If someone is trying to save from their salary to afford college for their kids; whether they work in the public or the private sector, that more likely saves her money in her taxes. They are less in need of loans or grants from the government. This is the kind of simplistic and shortsighted thinking that has gotten us into this mire.

  • RoninNY

    Sick of hearing people say ‘the President needs to compromise, give the GOP something.” For WHAT? Are they children that need to be bribed to do their job? Trusting them to be happy with some small concession is like trusting a zombie to just nibble your neck.

  • Yar

    Jack, you hit the nail on the head, we are still fighting the war of northern aggression. Remember, it was never about race. It is about the right to exploit others for our own personal gain. Try to take that away and we will hate. Race, class, gender, orientation, all of these are simply proxies for challenging our privileged status. The caller Beth was today’s spokesperson for the party of hate. We can’t in good faith negotiate with hate? Malala Yousafzai said it best when she said “You must not treat others with cruelty…You must fight others through peace and through dialogue and through education.”

    • Mari McAvenia

      Malala was robbed of the Nobel Peace Prize because she is a REAL peace activist!

      • Yar

        I agree she is qualified to win it, it is their prize to give, so she wasn’t robbed. In a discussion with a friend, she commented that Malala was Christ like. It got me thinking, where do we see Christ. Better yet are ‘self proclaimed Christians’ willing to recognize or accept Christ in the personality of a young Muslim girl? I agree she is very Christ like. She has a lot to say about a faith of exclusion, Christian or otherwise.

    • Bruce94

      To your point, I ran across these two articles that provide quite a bit of historical context for the current shutdown and threatened debt ceiling breach:

      http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/19798-how-racism-caused-the-shutdown

      http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/19738-focus-the-white-mans-last-tantrum

      IMO these pieces provide a plausible explanation for the current hostage taking by a tiny (neoconfederate?) minority within a minority based on the realignment of the two major political parties following the Civil Rights movement in the 1950-60′s and after the GOP successfully implemented its Southern Strategy. Looks like today we could be witnessing the Southern Strategy backfiring or, depending on how this all shakes out, the last vestiges of a moderate, rational and inclusive GOP disappearing from the political landscape.

  • jefe68

    Danger, danger, tea party nihilist approaching!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REvmhBO99I4

    • HonestDebate1

      Is that Grady Lee Howard?

      • Mari McAvenia

        Grady Lee Howard is dead. Long live Grady Lee Howard!

  • Steve__T

    “Reader, suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member ofCongress. But I repeat myself.” –Mark Twain

    “There is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress.” –Mark Twain

    • jefe68

      One wonders what Mark Twain would make of the GOP if he was around today.

      • thequietkid10

        “Don’t go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first.”

        “Loyalty to the country always. Loyalty to the government when it deserves it.”

        “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”

        “Only one thing is impossible for God: To find any sense in any copyright law on the planet.”

        http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mark_twain.html#YH2Ks7UVkYF4KByf.99

        If Mark Twain were around today, he would be a Ron Paul/Rand Paul Republican

        • jefe68

          I doubt that. He had little patience for fools, bullies or the right.

          It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt.
          –– Mark Twain

          He was pretty progressive, was an early advocate of the women’s suffrage and he was against imperialism and war.

          Mark Twain was sympathetic with workers’ efforts to unionize and told the Knights of Labor union in 1886: “Who are the oppressors? The few: the king, the capitalist, and a handful of other overseers and superintendents. Who are the oppressed? The many: the nations of the earth; the valuable personages; the workers; they that Make the bread that the soft-handed and idle eat.” Months before his death in 1910, Twain told his good friend William Dean Howells that the unions were the “sole present help of the weak against the strong.” –

          http://hnn.us/article/147643#sthash.WTEBCRU0.dpuf

  • Alex

    As we have passed every major event related to the government in the last 6 years, It has become painfully obvious that the GOP is composed of people who are utterly incapable of extrapolating into the future with any clarity or reasonable expectation. They have been wrong about literally every prediction that they have made, and have made decisions based on strategies that any one with half an ability to think would be able to see would play out disastrously for them and for us. I can’t understand how these people can continue to convince anyone that they know what they are doing. Simple observation running up to the government shutdown would have allowed you to see that this was destined to play out horribly for the GOP, it seems that they are only able to see that now that it is happening. Simple observation running up to the moment Mitt Romney chose Paul Ryan as his running mate would have told you that he lost the campaign that day. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised, but that doesn’t make me less depressed.

    • jefe68

      I disagree. They do have a strategy. To make government so dysfunctional that we all become cynics and stop voting. If the moderates leave in disgust the extremist will prevail.

      • Alex

        I think you give them too much credit. I honestly believe they really are incapable. Maybe not Ted Cruz, but the majority of them. I’m thinking about things like them not knowing how obvious it was that Mitt had no chance in that election, gloating up until the moment it became official. That doesn’t help them with your supposed strategy. They actually are just incapable of extrapolating from evidence that differs from the way they want the world to be. I think it actually scares me more.

        • fun bobby

          it was not exactly a landslide

        • jefe68

          That’s true up to a point. The thing is the GOP has been moving their agenda forward without winning a general election. One only has to look at all the states that have Republican governors and legislators.
          Interesting thing though, some of them are starting to see that the tea party extremist for what they are, nihilist.

          26 states, all under Republican rule, have decided to not take the expansion on Medicaid, thus making the ACA harder to implement in their states. You could hardly say this is being done without some form of strategy, even if it’s being guided by spite.

  • Stephen706

    If the answer is that nothing will change, then why bother re-opening and continuing the insanity…

  • anamaria23

    Just turned on the TV to hear Congressman Cruz telling his audience that “God loves us all”. Does that mean that God loves President Obama, too? But no one else should?
    His God is too small.

    • TFRX

      (Cruz is a Senator. But that’s the tiniest quibble.)

      I’m not a religious sort to begin with, but I detect something off about too many public figures who boast about being His fanclub.

      And Cruz’ words vis-a-vis other actions ain’t helping.

    • fun bobby

      God can love Obama without agreeing his healthcare scheme is a good idea.

      • anamaria23

        Why would a loving God not want people to have access to health insurance and care?
        What is Senator Cruz’s health care scheme?

        • fun bobby

          I can’t speak for either of those entities

  • lobstahbisque

    The tea party is being Cruzified.

  • fun bobby

    Detroit beats its own murder rate record!

  • Mattyster

    OBAMA needs to stop pressing for total victory????? This is ridiculous. The Democrats have already compromised. The budget on the table is what the Republicans wanted. They won’t take ‘Yes’ for an answer. And now the problem is that the President isn’t presidential enough? He’s putting too much blame on the Republican, who created this situation? Give me a break.

    • tbphkm33

      I agree, time to force the tea baggers to face the wrath of their own creation.

  • hennorama

    Lawrence O’Donnell put forward an interesting idea the other evening.

    While many/most pundits and the public seem to be asking “Why are Republicans shooting themselves in the foot over the shutdown and Normal Borrowing Authority (aka “debt ceiling”)?,” O’Donnell instead asked a series of different questions:

    “What if John Boehner and the House Republican leadership and Senator Ted Cruz know exactly what they’re doing and exactly why they’re doing it? What if they are playing a much longer and bigger game than anyone has noticed? What if their concern is the Presidency and nothing but the Presidency? And what if the Republican Party, the party that created the modern imperial Presidency has looked at the Romney electoral results? What if they looked at the changing demographics and what if the Republican Party realizes the Presidency is an increasingly long shot for the Republican Party and they have decided it’s time to end the imperial Presidency, it is time to deny the President wherever possible…unilateral war-making powers that the President has been deploying since the 1960s?? What if the Republicans have decided it is time to shut down the Presidency?”

    [EDIT/ADD:] “Now they are building the imperial Speakership.”

    Watch and listen here:

    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/45755883/ns/msnbc-the_last_word/vp/53213073#53213073

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Just what we need. More crazy conspiracy theories from a lifelong Democrat hack who plays journOlist on MSNBC.

      No, this is only about Obama and his media puppets attempting to damage the Tea Party and GOP brand to gain advantage in 2014.

      Evidence: the GOP capitulated within days of the shutdown and weakened their ‘demands’ to two popular and minor modifications to the ACA but the Dems and Obama held their ground AND continued to inflict as much pain on the people as possible in the shutdown — going out of your way to shut down viewing areas of Mt. Rushmore on the side of the highway? Please!!!

      • anamaria23

        Then, you must agree that now and in the future any small faction of the House that does not like, however vehemently, a LAW, should have the option to shut down the government or default to
        repeal or change that LAW. Is governance and legislating just too boring and old fashioned any more?
        The Tea Party does need the President to damage their brand. They are doing it very well themselves and have been for years.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          You are now asking a hypothetical since that is NOT what is happening despite the best efforts of the media and the Dems.

          The second falsehood in your ‘premise’ is that a ‘small’ minority can block anything in the House. Wrong. What has happened is they built a coalition to build a MAJORITY in the House — at least for the time being.

          But back to your hypothetical. What if the majority in the House feels they are right on an important issue and the other party controls the Executive and Senate — should they fight? Sure if they feel it is important. The counter weight against their ‘overreach’ is facing election every two years.

          Should abolitionists in 1850 brought the government to the brink to try and defeat the fugitive slave act? Of course.

        • tbphkm33

          “Tea Party” signifies some sort of credence, what they really should be known as is “Tea Baggers.” After all, a tea bag is a crusty brown old bag discarded in the trash. Which is where these extremists are heading.

          What should bother them is that in 20 or 30 years, their own children and grand children will be embarrassed to acknowledge what their ideology was. Who today is proud to acknowledge that their grandfather was a KKK member in the ’40s and ’50s? Opps, guess some of these tea baggers might be proud to acknowledge that family background.

      • hennorama

        WftC – Thank you for the favor of your reply.

        Whether you agree or disagree with Mr. O’Donnell, his idea is different and warrants further exploration, in my view.

        As to Mt. Rushmore – I’ve visited the area three times in the past 15 years and can attest that while the road past the National Memorial is well-improved, it also has significant twists and turns and some short sight line distances. These are the Black Hills after all.

        In addition, there is a great alternative – Custer State Park, which has great scenic drives, including the famous Iron Mountain Road. The Iron Mountain Road has three tunnels that frame awesome views of Mount Rushmore.

        According to the state’s website:

        “The Iron Mountain Road is a work of art in itself. The highway connects Custer State Park and Mount Rushmore National Memorial. The highway passes through some of the most beautiful scenery in the Black Hills and including three tunnels that frame Mount Rushmore in the distance. The road is famous for the “Pigtail Bridges” that allows travelers to drop or gain altitude quickly.”

        The Pigtail Bridges alone are worth a visit, as is Needles Highway and Needle’s Eye.

        Thanks again for your response.

        See:
        http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g60865-d504749-i55067199-Iron_Mountain_Road-Custer_South_Dakota.html
        http://gfp.sd.gov/state-parks/directory/custer/activities/drives.aspx

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          Well, if the GOP wants to tamp down the imperial Executive have at it. We will be better for it no matter which party wins the Presidency.

          Thanks for the travel tips. I’d love to get out there some day.

          • hennorama

            WftC – thanks again for your response.

            O’Donnell’s idea seems like a reasonable insurgent/minority strategy – maximize what your side controls, and minimize what the opponent controls.

            In the segment, he goes on to say (to his guests)

            “I don’t like stupidity or evil or incompetence as explanations for why people in Washington do what they do. I think in your experience and mine, most of them are pretty smart about how they’re making their choices, most of the time, and when I try to find the reason in what I’m looking at here, it seems to me that this new Republican Party no longer wants an imperial Presidency. They want the power to be in whatever part of that government they can control.”

            As I said, that seems like a reasonable insurgent/minority strategy, and an explanation that doesn’t require one to view the opposition as stupid evil incompetent fools.

            ======
            The Black Hills area is quite scenic, and there are several major attractions relatively near each other – Mount Rushmore, Badlands National Park, Devils Tower National Monument, U.S. National Grassland, Wall Drug, etc., and on the eastern side of SD you can see one of the oddest man-made creations – the Mitchell Corn Palace. The exterior is decorated each year with scenes made from corn cobs, stalks, grains and grasses, and is not to be missed if you’re in that area. (see link below)

            I often find there are amazing things that most people miss, and often discover them by simply turning around from the standard view. At Mt. Rushmore, there are amazing wide open vistas to behold. At Devils Tower, there are incredible red rock formations. On one highway, to the right are the Badlands, and to the left is part of the National Grassland.

            It’s all about perspective.

            http://www.cornpalace.com/photo_gallery.php#leaf

      • TFRX

        Hahahaha.

        Seriously. The right made this shutdown. If they were only manly enough to own it.

    • William

      The President is the one ruling by executive order bypassing the Congress so what power if any does the speaker have?

      • hennorama

        William – thank you for your response.

        The Speaker has significant power to control the legislative and budgetary agendas, and much of what President Obama has wanted to do has been thwarted. This makes the Executive Order an attractive option.

        These are part of the normal push pull of our government and are not themselves terribly unusual. What has been unusual is the EXTENT of these phenomena, on both sides.

    • brettearle

      Intriguing idea, Henn.

      But why isn’t it, indeed, a part of the conspiracy theory syndrome that is plaguing our Public Dialogue. [And I'd be hard pressed to believe that you don't believe otherwise, as well.]

      Don’t get me wrong: Using the imagination will bring up unintended consequences, so to speak:

      to wit, a part of the Truth can be uncovered–even as the result of `archetypes rising from the unconscious of a politically fertile, but, nevertheless, porous or vulnerable mind.’

      In a culture rife with Schism, is it any wonder that this sort of suspicion burbles up?

      All the best….

      • brettearle

        Disqus

      • hennorama

        brettearle – TY for your response and your question.

        The answer you seek is in my 2nd reply to [WorriedfortheCountry]:

        The reason Mr. O’Donnell’s idea is not, as you wrote “a part of the conspiracy theory syndrome that is plaguing our Public Dialogue” is that it is an explanation that doesn’t require one to view the opposition as stupid evil incompetent fools.

        As you know, it’s far more popular to demonize the opposition than to treat them with respect, and the newsfotainment units of the media conglomerates, and other entities, derive far more revenue from being outrageous than from being thoughtful.

        As to Truth, Consequences, and Schism – I do enjoy New Mexico when I visit, but really am not in any mood to discuss the Avignon Popes. Speaking of Avignon – the song is cute, and I have personally danced on what’s left of the bridge, on a lovelywarm moonlit evening.

        Thanks again for your response, and backatcha.

  • Yar

    On Point I think you are infected by a “vote down bot”. I expect you can figure out what if anything should be done. Maybe ignoring it is best. Anyone else notice the speed in which their comments receive a down vote?

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Persecution complex?

      No. Seriously, I’ve notice some ‘quick’ down votes but assumed they were simply reflexive votes. Did you notice a pattern to the ‘bot’ or is it just random?

      • Yar

        This post had a down vote that appeared and went away several times, over the first three minutes of the post. Looked like a bot to me.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          Gotcha. I was playing with you in response. No bot. Just a mouse click.

          • Yar

            I figured it was you, I was hoping to give you enough space to admit guilt. Can you explain the -1^ and the -2

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            LOL. I only played with your one post above because of the context. It seemed appropriate.

            I have no clue about the negative totals. I think I’ve seen them but I can’t recall where.

    • thequietkid10

      That would explain some of the down votes. I’ve seen some fairly reasonable post that have more down votes then up votes. That or someone is just trolling and/or certain people get down votes just because of who they are.

      • Ray in VT

        I think that your latter point probably is fairly close to the mark on some of them.

    • fun bobby

      the obvious solution is to remove anonymous downvotes. I usually just assume at least one of mine comes from jefe

      • StilllHere

        That guy’s good for three at least.

        • fun bobby

          this forum would be more fun if you could vote as many times as you wanted.

          • jefe68

            And there should prizes.

          • fun bobby

            YES! just then I would have given you several upvotes. lets compose a strongly worded letter to whoever at NPR is in charge of this racket

      • jefe68

        Grow up already.

        • fun bobby

          jefe I am a Democrat and whenever you are reasonable I give you upvotes

          • jefe68

            You could have fooled me. Sorry for the mistake. I guess that’s egg on my face.
            I’m neither. I have to say for a Democrat you have some pretty interesting points of view.

          • fun bobby

            for some reason a long time ago I thought you had to be a party member to vote in that parties primary and I have not bothered to go downtown and change it. I kinda like that I get all their propaganda and visits so I can keep an eye on them and mess with them. I figure if I lived in texas I would register as a R just to keep and eye on/ disrupt them. in either state who ever the dominate party selects in the primary is most likely to win most of the time so that’s the vote that really counts. I keep meaning to go down and fix it but it seems pretty irrelevant for all intents and purposes and I would not get to be amused by the propaganda distributed to the party faithful.

          • jefe68

            So then you identify with Conservatives for the most part, or so it would seem.

            Me I’m a Social Democrat with progressive leanings that goes way back in my family. Both grandfathers were union men, my mother is still in the teachers union. One worked in the Brooklyn Navy Yard. There is even a Communist in the family, mind you he lived in Poland.

          • fun bobby

            on some issues some views that I hold are often called conservative. all the labels are so crazy these days. I would say that I favor liberal firearms laws, for example. I am a utilitarian at the end of the day and I don’t think there is a party for that. I think, like Washington, that we would be better off without political parties.

      • tbphkm33

        I always try to give you a down vote – this way at least you get a vote and know someone saw your post :)

        • fun bobby

          thanks, nice to know someone reads it.

    • keltcrusader

      yes, I’ve noticed my posts are barely up and I already have down vote(s) = not humanly possible

      I think discus should make “down-voters” visible like the “up-voters”

  • hennorama

    JesHolcombe — cut off their food (read: money) supply and take away their microphones. They eventually shrivel up and turn to dust.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Nate Silver is less impressed with the latest polls than Jack Beatty.

    Oh, my!

    http://www.grantland.com/fivethirtyeight/story/_/id/9802433/nate-silver-us-government-shutdown

  • tbphkm33

    This arrived via e-mail, author unknown (but smarter than a tea bagger):

    Hostage Takers Call Comparisons to Tea Party ‘Hurtful’

    WASHINGTON – A group representing America’s hostage takers today blasted President Obama for his repeated comparisons between them and Tea Party Republicans, calling his remarks “degrading and hurtful.” According to the official statement of the National Alliance of Hostage Takers and Blackmailers, “As professional extortionists, we never take hostages unless we have a well thought-out plan, realistic demands, and a clear exit strategy. Any comparison between what we do and these inane Tea Party antics are derogatory and unacceptable.”
    Joe Paul

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Your spam filter needs adjusting.

    • ExcellentNews

      LOL, and ignore the paid or deluded right-wing spammers below. WorriedfortheCountry is one of the regulars, and a trace of his IP resolves to Hyderabad, India – meaning his real name is probably Rajesh and he gets paid 15 cents/hour by GPS Crossroads or another billionaire-funded PAC to sow confusion in our public debate.

    • JGC

      (It was from the Borowitz Report, found at the New Yorker.)

  • ExcellentNews

    If it appears that our government has gone crazy, it is not a coincidence. It is part of the class war strategy, waged by the global oligarchy on the middle class. Since 2000, wealth generation in the US has mostly come from job outsourcing and predatory lending. The people behind this trend rightly see a functioning democratic government as the ENEMY.

    Hence, the billions behind right-wing politicians, starting with Tom DeLay and Newt Gingrich, and ending with Ted Cruz. The politicians are disposable, and the methods the same (confuse, misrepresent, distort). Do you think the Tea Party backers really care about default and shutdown??? They already have prepared for it, stashing nearly 20 TRILLION in offshore accounts, or purchasing vast land holdings. Guess who is going to come ahead if the US economy collapses after a default?

    • fun bobby

      they would be in rough shape if their 20 trillion is in USD

    • OnPointComments

      Is that you, George Soros?

  • Sy2502

    The government is like a drug addict, and its drug is public money. No matter how much we give it, it will never be enough. Just like a drug, it needs more and more but the “high” (read: results) is less and less. Just as with a drug addict, the only way to go is to cut the supply. Yes it will be painful. Yes it will be hard. The addict will appeal to your pity and will curse you. He will beg and cajole and try to manipulate you into giving him his drug back. Hold firm and don’t budge, and it will be better for both of you on the long run.

    • OnPointComments

      I’ve thought to myself that the debt crisis has made the government sound like a crack addict being cut off from her dealer. Meanwhile, Senator Tom Coburn told us yesterday about the government’s “Use it or lose it” mentality on budgeting that encourages wasteful spending. The Air Force spent $567 million on planes that were immediately mothballed, flown from the factory to the boneyard in Arizona, because if the USAF didn’t spend the money this year it wouldn’t get as much next year. Business as usual at the government.

      • fun bobby

        that’s way less than the giant military base we built in Afghanistan and then paid to demolish when it turned out none of the branches of the military wanted it

        • OnPointComments

          There’s tens of millions of dollars of aircraft in Afghanistan that the US bought for the Afghans, but, surprise surprise, the Afghans don’t know how to fly airplanes, so the plans are to cut up the planes for scrap metal.

          • fun bobby

            meanwhile millions of American crys for some help with this ammo shortage fall on deaf ears

    • fun bobby

      that’s quite correct. the first thing you learn in public administration is that you must spend every dollar and ask for more the next year. if you don’t it could cost you your job. imagine if you gave a child (or anyone) a check and told them they could have a bigger check the next month as long as they spent it all. we should charge every bureaucrat with finding a way to make themselves unnecessary. that would make their pensions worthwhile.

    • TFRX

      The right is like an alcoholic, who, when they’re on the wagon (out of power), insist that nobody in 10 miles have a drop of alcohol.

      But once they promise they’ve reformed (back in power), they forget their promises, and it’s bar the door time.

      The only difference is that bystanders don’t pretend a problem drinker isn’t an alcoholic, whereas every right-winger is anointed “fiscally conservative” at political birth.

    • anamaria23

      While I get your point, you seem to know little about drug addiction. Cutting off the supply and leaving the person to beg and cajole without humane withdrawal, without professional intervention is cruel and usually leads to the demise of the person. Drug addiction is a disease. of he brain. Hopefully, one day we will understand and cure it.
      Sudden shutdown of the government or default is equally cruel and can lead to unprecedented consequences.
      That does not mean that we should not work to reduce spending, but let’s do it with a certain compassion and outlook for the common good. Do we really need to demonize government workers as useless? Can we not affirm them as fellow human beings also?
      There is much in the world that is “non essential”.

      • Sy2502

        The fact any analogy is inherently faulty doesn’t give you license to patronize me. Spend decades taking care of addicted family member like I did, then you can feel free to come teach me something on the subject.
        One thing you don’t do to an addict is give them MORE of their drug. Which is what raising the debt ceiling amounts to.
        As for government workers, I am one of those eccentrics who thinks taxpayers deserve respect, and that respect is shown by not squandering their hard earned money. Keeping useless jobs around just to give some folks something to do is an insult to tax payers.

  • TK_Texas

    Ask your Bloomberg lady if she seriously believes that if the roles were reversed, that the Rs would do the face-saving stuff that she is insisting the President “must” do? If the answer is no, then she shouldn’t let herself be snookered that way by R self pity.

    • OnPointComments

      I wonder if the roles were reversed if Nancy Pelosi would say again, as she said in 2004, that the President shouldn’t be given a blank check over and over by raising the debt limit.

      • Mike_Card

        JHC! How many times do you need to learn that the President doesn’t spend the money, he just pays the bills! You really ARE a low-information voter, aren’t you? Turn off Fox Noise and pay attention!

        • OnPointComments

          Don’t tell me, tell the Wicked Witch of the West, Nancy Pelosi.

      • TFRX

        Yep. And she brought the gummint to a halt over it 9 years ago.

        oh, wait…

  • OnPointComments

    Some of the things we’ve learned this week . . .

    ● Insurance premiums aren’t falling by $2,500 for average families, as President Obama promised, they’re skyrocketing
    ● For many, many people, if you liked your plan before Obamacare, you won’t be able to keep it as President Obama promised
    ● The Obamacare website is a disaster. $634 million dollars and three years to get it ready, and the website is an absolute failure.
    ● President Obama has a vindictive streak. His plan all along was to make the government shutdown as painful as possible, from spending to close open air memorials and highways, to denying death benefits to military families.
    ● The main stream media didn’t ask President Obama a single question about his signature achievement, Obamacare, during his news conference, abandoning any semblance of objectivity.
    ● The Obama administration has refused to say how many Americans have signed up for Obamacare, probably because the number is embarassingly low.

  • OnPointComments

    This columnist sums it up accurately and succinctly:

    BARACK OBAMA, OUR DOGMATIC AMATEUR
    http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2013/10/11/barack-obama-our-dogmatic-amateur/

    “…[concerning] the disastrous rollout of the ObamaCare exchanges. It’s not simply that it’s failed; it’s that the failure has been so complete, so total, and it has occurred despite the Obama administration having had so much time to prepare for this moment.

    “Here’s what’s important to realize. We can now judge the president’s promises against his results, what he said he would do versus what he has actually done. The president is being assessed not by his rhetoric but by his performance. And his performance is, in almost every respect, SIMPLY DREADFUL. He combines two problematic qualities: dogmatism and ineptitude.

    “As for the Affordable Care Act: It is, in conception and execution, emblematic of modern liberalism. This is what progressives wanted. It was what they fought for. And now they own it. It’s beginning to dawn on a few of them that it may well haunt them for years to come.”

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      In the private sector this litany of broken promises would be grounds for fraud action.

      In today’s Statist America if you challenge anything regarding the scheme you are told it is ‘settled law’ — move along.

      • OnPointComments

        I’m pretty sure that if Kathleen Sebelius was in the private sector, had been given a three year project with a $634 million dollar budget, and failed totally and miserably, she’d be out pounding the pavement for a new job.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          Her budget for the project was $94M — an outrageous sum in and of itself.

          If she was in the private sector she would be out and also facing a civil suit for fraud.

    • TFRX

      You forgot to italicize that stuff, dude.

      Seriouisly, we’re at the “just posting shyt from right-wing crap sources” time of the thread.

  • orwelllutz

    All this hysteria over Obamacare and fiscal irresponsibility is the raving of a lunatic or of a propagandist. Why should I care if this country bellies up after W bankrupted it with war, and all you conservatives deregulated everything so Wall Street could finish the job !

    Don’t pretend that you have any answer other than to continue the feeding on the corpse of the working man.

    Fact is friends, “conservative” policy over last 43 years has successfully stripped the middle class of the gains earned because of the new deal — a goal of the oligarchs whose wealth was reduced with the Fair Labor Standards Act.

    Any criticism of the affordable care act, and refusal to raise taxes on corporations is clear evidence of one of two things: good old fashioned bigotry, or bald evidence of wishing to impoverish one’s neighbor.

    and to those who look forward to voting again for the Tea Party, here, let me lend you a knife so you can slit your own wrists.

    Wake up Neo !

    • William

      Clinton was big on deregulation and “free trade” with his NAFTA agreement. Of course the tax code is a mess but both parties refuse to do little if anything to fix it. I would love to see a flat tax with a baseline of 5 percent and max of 22 percent but that will never happen.

  • orwelllutz

    And for those who claim that costs are rising as a result of the Affordable Care Act, one can only expect that since the private sector is not yet subject to the single source payor. Let all the doctors pull out. Then, how will they pay for the luxury cars?

    • fun bobby

      and student loans

  • HonestDebate1

    81% of the Department of Interior is deemed non-essential
    87% of the Department of Commerce is deemed non-essential
    91% of the IRS…
    93% of the EPA…
    96% of HUD…
    94% of the Department of Education…
    91% of the SEC…
    95% of the EEOC…
    98% of the FCC…
    99% of the NLRB…
    97% of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission…
    96% of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission…
    88% of the Corporation for National and Community Service…
    96% of the Consumer Product Safety Commission…
    97% of the Export Import Bank…
    96% of the National Endowment of the Humanities…
    96% of the National Endowment of the Arts…
    90% of the Defense Nuclear Facilities Safety Board….

    I know for a fact that in my business(es) I can’t afford anything that’s non-essential. That’s the way the real world works. Say what you will about Ted Cruz but we would not know this if not for him. We need to know it.

    • fun bobby

      some of those numbers seem low.

    • jefe68

      Governments are not businesses.

      • HonestDebate1

        It’s not a good paradigm Jefe. Surely you agree.

        • jefe68

          No I do not. How can 93% of the EPA be non-essential? Or 91% of the IRS?
          That’s absurd.

          • HonestDebate1

            Don’t blame me, it’s the government who deems the non-essential. I’m curious, do you believe government is too small?

            Personally, I would like to see government small enough so that it could drown in the combined waters of all the planet’s oceans… but that’s just me.

          • jefe68

            This whole small government thing is idiotic in my view. That’s my answer to all questions about that lame subject.

            I’m more interested in government being efficient and less wasteful. Small is a right wing euphemism for that old state rights argument that was decided in the 1860′s and then again in the 60′s.

          • fun bobby

            paper pushers

          • William

            Not really. IBM has laid off thousands of people, shed entire divisions, and remade itself over the last 25 years. Why not the federal government?

          • jefe68

            Again, government is not a business.

          • fun bobby

            drinking water testing it done at the municipal level. The FAA should be paid for by those who own airplanes. As far as the FAA keeping you safe you should watch the Frontline on the topic of MROs. without the NIH grants how will we ever find out why lesbians are fat? Have the courts closed jefe? I am pretty sure companies are still liable for any damages they may do

          • jefe68

            Are you a lawyer who has to deal with the court system on the local or federal level?
            If not then you should be more mindful of what’s going on the courts due to a lack of funding, legal aid and so on.

            The grants is a false equivalency.
            Again you right wingers are really out to lunch.

          • fun bobby

            when I spoke to the superior court clerk on Wednesday everything seemed fine. I believe the courts are an essential element in our republic and would never support closing them. maybe if they are all backed up with criminal cases we should just cease prosecuting drug cases.

          • JGC

            If the drinking water is a municipal supply, it is done at the local (municipal) level. If it is a private well, you are on your own for frequency of testing (at least until it is time to try to sell your property.) If it is not municipally-suppled water but is open to the public, then there may be state rules applied as to frequency of testing and levels of “permissable” fecal bacteria allowed before the closing of the source.

            I worked for a few years for a small water quality company that had some contracts with state parks and public pools and country restaurants on private well water. If we found one colony of fecal bacteria in a test, we had 24 hours to go back and take another sample, and if it was positive the second time, the site had to immediately shut down and shock the source. (The pool closures were invariably on the hottest days of the summer, and many people would have preferred to take their chances swimming in a “toilet” instead of having to fume pool-side, all sweaty and staring at the closed pool.)

            I imagine, but do not know, that the reason why the water sources in (some of the) national parks were shut down was because of the potability testing laws, and the requirements at both national and state levels.

          • fun bobby

            turning off the water and removing the handles seem like different things. one is meant as a political statement

    • OnPointComments

      I wish they’d fire at least half of them, if not all of them.

    • William

      It is an amazing event to watch these last weeks. The outright panic by the media over the idea of shutting down useless agencies and people that work in them and little if any discussion about “do we really need these agencies and people?”

  • HonestDebate1

    Ted Cruz’ approval rating is going up. It’s not widely reported. Obama’s approval rating is 37% which is 1 point aver GWB’s low. It was not widely reported. Why?

    And then a sham poll comes out from NBC and it’s all over the place. Go figure.

    • jefe68

      Only 28 percent of Americans have a favorable impression of the Republican Party, according to the latest Gallup poll, taken after Sen. Ted Cruz’s 21-hour speech and the subsequent government shutdown.

      I hope he runs for the GOP nomination for president and wins. I could put my dog up against him and he would lose.

      • fun bobby

        I don’t know much about him but he did handle the heckling today pretty well

        • jefe68

          Cruz is a smart opportunist, nothing more nor less.
          The uncanny thing about him though, he looks like Joe McCarthy.

          • fun bobby

            i always like a snappy comeback

          • hennorama

            jefe68 — my impression of Senator Rafael Edward Cruz is that he seems like the Greg Stillson character (an ambitious politician) played by Martin Sheen in the movie ‘The Dead Zone.’

            Eventually, Sen. Cruz will be figuratively caught using a small child as a human shield.

          • jefe68

            He already is having an effect on children.
            This shut down is effecting a lot of children, so in a way, he is using them for his own political gain.

          • hennorama

            A very good point.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            You have a rich imagination hennorama.

            I always thought Greg Stillson was a populist Democrat phony. He had the union thug like henchmen after all.

          • hennorama

            WftC — it’s an impression and not an analysis, and I have never heard of the other comparisons to which you referred.

      • HonestDebate1

        He couldn’t do any worse than McCain and Romney. But we sure appreciate your advice.

        • jefe68

          My dog is better behaved than Cruz, that’s for sure.

          But in all seriousness, if he gets the GOP nomination the Democrats could run against him with FDR’s ghost and win.

          • HonestDebate1

            I do understand that Cruz is your enemy and the dog reference is a joke. But it is curious that you look at the issue through the lens of “well behaved”. What do you mean? Cruz spoke for 21 hours and managed to avoid attacking anyone. He never interrupts in interviews. He is always polite. He is very well behaved as I understand the term.

            Or do you mean disobedient?

          • jefe68

            Cruz is not my enemy, he represents the polar opposite of what I believe in.
            If we end up having another Civil War, which one hopes does not happen, then I suppose he would be.

    • JGC

      My approval rating is also going up, and yet, strangely, is not widely reported. I also wonder, why?

      • HonestDebate1

        Who has an interest in furthering the notion you are not liked? Or maybe your approval rating is being buried because it’s not news. When one stands for truth where else can it go but up?

        I’m just glad you’re back for a while.

        • JGC

          Awww, that’s real nice, and thanks for that! A tip of the fretboard to you… And be sure to stream Joel Najman on My Place at Vermont Public Radio tomorrow evening at 8:00 pm, if you are able…

          I wonder if I could have a simple human connection with Ted Cruz if I knew he was a Doc Watson fan, or he had ever danced to Rock Lobster in his dorm room, or was devastated when he learned Amy Winehouse died….

          • fun bobby

            you should write him a letter

          • JGC

            That is a very good idea. Maybe I will… but it will also involve having my letter photographed front and back by Homeland Security, as well as having it tested for possible biological/radiological contaminants. So it could take a while to get a reply, especially in the midst of this government shutdown when all the inspectors are furloughed or working with no pay. But I’ll let you know if Senator Cruz reveals his true heart!

          • fun bobby

            yes the NSA does photograph all first class mail. on the other hand, they already know how you feel about ted cruz and they have not picked you up yet. Its pretty awful to live in a country where the idiot citizenry does not even know what the chilling effect is much less understand the danger it poses

          • TFRX

            Ted “Obama’s Gonna Quarter Soldiers in Your Homes Soon” Cruz?

            I know that every human connection requires a little giving in, but I think the bulk of that work is his, not yours.

  • fun bobby

    I got in an argument with my representative once and he was rude and dismissive. its not fun

  • JGC

    The person that is working in Cruz’s office is cranky because he has to work Ted’s Senate office phone lines, yet cannot get paid because of the government pay freeze. He has anxiety over how he is supposed to find the money to pay his $1500 per month mortgage/rent and his $400 per month car payment and his $200 per month student loan and still have enough left over to make the lay away payment on a pair of those really cool boots like his boss Ted wears. Have some compassion, dammit!

  • HonestDebate1

    Yea, that would suck and I don’t blame you for being ticked. Did you sign up?

  • HonestDebate1

    “Obamacare is really, I think, the worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery”.

    http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/10/11/dr-carson-obamacare-the-worst-thing-that-has-happened-since-slavery/

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      yeah, but what does that guy know about medicine …

  • OnPointComments

    Bill Whittle nails it: Democrats and liberals FEAR the government shutdown. The fear is that if the government shuts down its nonessential personnel, no one will really notice. Jackboot tactics are used to MAKE the shutdown hurt. It’s desperate. Don’t dare question the king on the need for the nonessential personnel.

    NON-ESSENTIAL
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjrnmBKwuf8

    • StilllHere

      We’re there.
      Sequester, shutdown, … whatever.
      We’ve tested the thesis for a smaller government and it worked. Let’s learn the lesson from this experience and move forward in a positive way.

      Note to knee-jerk jack-boots, I wrote smaller government, not no government.

    • HonestDebate1

      Whittle is great. I hope everybody watches.

      • JONBOSTON

        I had never heard of Whittle and took your advice and watched. The guy is dead on with his commentary, especially his mentioning that the only thing non-essentional is our hard earned money.

        BTW Greg–I meant to respond to the question you asked me last week regarding tort reform. First , yes I’m senior counsel with a major international company and I’ve also worked in Washington (35+ yrs experience). By and large product liability litigation and malpractice claims are not the problem they used to be. SCOTUS decisions have limited punitive damages and the testimony of plaintiffs experts promoting quack science theories . States (like Mass.) have also reined in medical malpractice claims by creating higher levels of proof and capping awards.

        The remaining problem deals with consumer class action suits. Most of these suits are nothing more than legalized extortion claims that are filed to benefit the lawyers who file them and not the consumers they purport to represent.

        • HonestDebate1

          Thanks Jon. That’s good to know.

          I might be splitting hairs here but I think looking at product liability litigation and malpractice claims doesn’t really tell us how many test, prescriptions and procedures are performed purely to give cover for anything and everything. I think those numbers are impossible to calculate.

          I think sometimes doctors feel inhibited to just exhibit common sense based on expertise and patient history. I think they feel compelled to go overboard. The level to which they feel compelled to take some kind of action translates exponentially to big bucks. But again, I have no idea how to measure that.

          Your encouraging report about the facts on the ground may change the dynamic. Maybe doctors will eventually feel more relaxed about not ordering an MRI for a hangnail. Maybe malpractice insurance rates will go down. Maybe they have. I’m dubious.

          • JONBOSTON

            You’re probably right. It just so happens one of my closest friends is a gastroenterologist. He’s an extremely competent and accomplished doc yet practices defensive medicine.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Turns out that the NBC poll Beatty was slobbering over and the media has been trumpeting all day has a sampling problem. Not only does it over sample Dems but 20% of the respondents work for the government vs. 8% of the general population. Could that possibly skew the results?

    Weak kneed beltway GOP lifers will probably capitulate because of a faulty poll. No principles. So sad.

  • Unterthurn

    Republican and not in agreement with the tea party coalition? Then make the effort and go change your voting registration.

  • Alex

    That lady who wants the government to stay shutdown. I know Somalia government is shutdown forever. Go live there and you won’t have to worry about government being open. You get the benefit of what we have here because we have government. Please go crazy in Somalia, not here.

    • fun bobby

      has America turned into Somalia the last week or so?

    • William

      It is hard to argue if Detroit’s government had shut down 20 years ago and a private company took over that city’s management it would be worse off than today.

      • Alex

        No government, then it becomes wild-wild-west. You’ll have to pay tax to private entity to keep things and get to not argue.

  • JGC

    Vermont Public Radio had a piece on how the essential federal workers in that state are having to go to work while not being paid by the federal government, and yet are not eligible for state unemployment benefits, because they are not “available” for new employment.

    I guess the advantage goes to the banksters once again, since these folks will need to move their expenses on to their credit cards and take out a line of credit on their home equity (if they have any accrued since 2008)…

  • buddhaclown

    What is with all the Right Wing Nazi nutcases who comment on this site? Get your community under control Tom.

    • brettearle

      Show me where, please….

      I might believe you. But I want to look for myself.

    • tbphkm33

      Some are zealots who are hyped up on the rightwing propaganda and brainwashing mythology (or altered reality). A few are probably paid to inundate this and other mainstream sites. Part of the Nopublican/Tea Bagger campaign to misinform the public and sow doubt. Reality is that they come across as nut cases, showing their true colors.

      • OnPointComments

        Pot, meet kettle.

      • fun bobby

        who pays them? who is paying you?

    • jefe68

      The answer, the right to free speech.

    • Steve__T

      You don’t have to stay. Grown folks are having a discussion. Clowns and trolls are useless here.

  • OnPointComments

    What do you think of the following provision of Michigan’s Constitution:

    No public university, college or school district may “discriminate against, or grant preferential treatment to, any individual or group on the basis of race, sex, color, ethnicity, or national origin in the operation of public employment, public education, or public contracting.”

    Could anyone be against this provision? Sure they can; liberals are against it.

    Issue before the Supreme Court: Schuette v. Coalition to Defend Affirmative Action – Whether a state violates the Equal Protection Clause by amending its constitution to prohibit race- and sex-based discrimination or preferential treatment in public-university admissions decisions.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/george-f-will-a-wonderland-moment-for-the-court/2013/10/11/2f8dd95c-31f1-11e3-8627-c5d7de0a046b_story.html

    Imagine what it would be like if we brought the theory behind affirmative action to other areas of the law, say burglary, for example. If a white burglar was recorded on video robbing a black family’s house, but was never caught, the courts would require that a different innocent white person pay restitution to a different black person who may have never been a burglary victim, you know, to even things out. It makes a lot of sense, doesn’t it?

  • hennorama

    Ken MacFarlane — one imagines that the Austin American-Statesman and other Texas newspapers might be interested in your story. You can contact the AA-S here:

    http://www.statesman.com/mailfriend/300/1934/d2c37d129f/ (Contact AAS News Tips)

    http://www.statesman.com/s/services/contacts/

  • OnPointComments

    I doubt that any of these Park Service storm troopers will be fired, but they should be. A good argument for privatizing the National Park Service or give the lands to the states.

    PARK SERVICE PARAMILITARIES
    The government has King John’s idea of public lands.
    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/361057/park-service-paramilitaries-mark-steyn

    “But perhaps the most extraordinary story to emerge from the NPS is that of the tour group of foreign seniors whose bus was trapped in Yellowstone Park on the day the shutdown began.

    “They were pulled over photographing a herd of bison when an armed ranger informed them, with the insouciant ad-hoc unilateral lawmaking to which the armed bureaucrat is distressingly prone, that taking photographs counts as illegal “recreation.” “Sir, you are recreating,” the ranger informed the tour guide. And we can’t have that, can we?

    “They were ordered back to the Old Faithful Inn, next to the geyser of the same name, but forbidden to leave said inn to look at said geyser. Armed rangers were posted at the doors, and, just in case one of the wily Japanese or Aussies managed to outwit his captors by escaping through one of the inn’s air ducts and down to the geyser, a fleet of NPS SUVs showed up every hour and a half throughout the day, ten minutes before Old Faithful was due to blow, to surround the geyser and additionally ensure that any of America’s foreign visitors trying to photograph the impressive natural phenomenon from a second-floor hotel window would still wind up with a picture full of government officials.

    “The following morning the bus made the two-and-a-half-hour journey to the park boundary but was prevented from using any of the bathrooms en route, including at a private dude ranch whose owner was threatened with the loss of his license if he allowed any tourist to use the facilities.

    “Is this for real? It’s not King Barack’s land; it’s supposed to be the people’s land, and his most groveling and unworthy subjects shouldn’t require a dispensation by His Benign Majesty to set foot on it.”

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Hostage taking?

      But their excuse was they were just following orders. Where have I heard that before?

    • tbphkm33

      Nut cases – privatize or give away a national treasure. Only the Tea Baggers could even come up with that one. Next thing you know, they will want to allow Walmart to put a store in at the edge of the Grand Canyon.

      • JONBOSTON

        Yes Walmart is evil. They give jobs to those that want them, buy goods and services from companies around the world who in turn give jobs to people and provide goods and services at affordable prices to those with limited budgets.

    • hennorama

      OPC — more of Mr. Mark Steyn’s hyperbolic huffing, and much ado about very little.

      • pete18

        One of Steyn’s hyperbolic huffings makes more sense than five years of speechifying and broken promises from the “we are the change we’ve been waiting for-in-chief.”

        • hennorama

          pete18 — TY for your response, and your opinion.

          I disagree with every word, except for your acknowledgment of “Steyn’s hyperbolic huffings,” which is appreciated.

        • HonestDebate1

          We have never heard such rhetoric from a President before. Obama makes Steyn sound like Shirley Temple with his hyperbole.

      • OnPointComments

        Maybe you’d rather read about it in the less hyperbolic North Andover, Massachusetts Eagle Tribune:
        ‘Gestapo’ tactics meet senior citizens at Yellowstone
        http://www.eagletribune.com/local/x1442580353/Gestapo-tactics-meet-senior-citizens-at-Yellowstone

        I’ve also yet to find a good explanation for the National Park Service taking the time and expense to remove the handles from all sources of drinking water along biking and jogging paths from Pittsburgh to Washington, DC. Oops, a minor correction: the only good explanation is vindictiveness and spite, as some journalists have noted.

        • hennorama

          OPC – Thank you for your response.

          The Eagle Tribune article is an entertaining story from a single source, making a big deal out of the fact that the non-furloughed National Park Service employees are only those “essential to respond to emergencies involving the safety of human life or the protection of property” and therefore are quite likely to be armed. Of the 3,266 non-furloughed National Park Service employees, nearly two-thirds (2,139) are involved in Law Enforcement, Emergency Medical Services, Fire Management, and/or the U.S. Park Police.

          In addition, the planned closure and securing of all National Park facilities and grounds was known well in advance of the partial Federal shutdown, and should have been no surprise to this tour group whatsoever. The tour guide certainly had the responsibility to be informed of the publicly available plan, making his wolf cries fairly self-serving.

          Mr. Steyn’s hyperbolic huffing included all of the following:

          “The NPS has spent the last two weeks behaving as the paramilitary wing of the DNC”
          “the NPS shock troops”
          “Park Service sent armed agents”
          “the NPS storm troopers”
          “the armed bureaucrat”
          “Armed rangers were posted at the doors”
          “the National Park Service was holding legal foreign visitors under house arrest”
          “The geyser stasi of the National Park Service”
          “the Park Service are merely the janitorial staff “

          And the Massachusetts Eagle Tribune article quoted exactly one person, and quoted a secondary news source, which was the source of their inflammatory ‘Gestapo’ tactics headline.

          Again, much ado about very little.

          Source:
          http://www.doi.gov/shutdown/fy2014/upload/NPS-contingency-plan.pdf

          [PS] I am unaware of the other circumstances you described, and therefore make no comment.

        • Steve__T

          vindictiveness and spite brought to you by. “The Republican Party” the party that can’t say no enough to everything, including National Park Service.

        • JGC

          See comment on drinking water in national parks, well above.

      • WorriedfortheCountry

        I detect a theme here.

        You just don’t like people born in Canada, do you.

        • hennorama

          WftC — très drôle, monsieur.

          That said, I have nothing whatsoever against “people born in Canada.” My objections are registered only against the words and actions of individuals, regardless of their birthplace.

  • OnPointComments

    Exactly what I was hoping would happen.

    Oversight, Natural Resources to Examine National Park Service’s Closing of Memorials
    http://oversight.house.gov/release/oversight-natural-resources-to-examine-national-park-services-closing-of-memorials/

    WASHINGTON, D.C. – On Wednesday, October 16th, House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman Darrell Issa, R-Calif., and House Natural Resources Committee Chairman Doc Hastings, R-Wash., will convene a joint hearing entitled, “As Difficult As Possible: The National Park Service’s Implementation of the Government Shutdown.”

    The hearing will examine the National Park Service’s decision to barricade open-air memorials on the National Mall, which are normally open to the public 24 hours a day, during the current lapse in appropriations. The decision prohibited access to veterans and visitors and is unprecedented in previous shutdowns.

    I hope the committee keeps asking questions until it finds the highest ranking Obama administration official who has orchestrated the antics of the National Park Service.

    • jefe68

      And yet this was caused by the GOP. Now they are making this into something else as a distraction.
      Which seems to be working as you sure are into it.
      THE GOP CAUSED THIS.

      • OnPointComments

        Someone gave the orders for the National Park Service to act as it has. I hope the committee finds this person.

        • jefe68

          I’m no apologist for the Obama administration. This is still on the GOP.

          The Republican Party now viewed favorably by only 28% of Americans, down from 38% in September. That’s the lowest favorable rating measured for either party since Gallup began asking this question in 1992. The Democratic Party is viewed favorably by 43%, down four percentage points from last month.

        • HonestDebate1

          I hate to think the Veteran’s family debt benefits were held because of a conscience decision but when we hear things like this with the Park Service you have to wonder.

        • Steve__T

          It’s in my reply to you above.

    • John Cedar

      Issa for V.P.
      Cruz for Prez!

      • jefe68

        Yeah, I think those guys should run!
        The GOP should nominate even more extremist for a national election to alienate even more Americans.

        • pete18

          Yeah, they should try nominating a guy like Barack Obama, because look what a good job he’s done uniting the country.

          • John Cedar

            Well…
            I can always dream…
            Wouldn’t it be nice to elect to the highest office, a constitutional expert who has argued and won more cases in front of the supreme court than any other congressman or president . Rather than elect a faculty lounge amateur Constitution dabbler, as the donkeys did.

            Cruz is a lawyer God! Obama is not qualified to clerk for him.

          • tbphkm33

            Amazing how Tea Baggers will get right out there in public and demonstrate their ignorance.

          • pete18

            Another lawyer pounding the desk.

          • pete18

            I like Cruz, and I agree he’s certainly a hell of lot sharper than Obama, but of course that’s damning with faint praise. However, I’m not sure he’s presidential timber or not.
            He doesn’t have any executive experience and he hasn’t been in the senate very long. I think Barak Obama proved how dangerous an inexperienced senator is in the White House. I’d be more inclined to give Cruz a serious look in 2020 after he’s had some more time under his belt.

          • John Cedar

            Don’t be silly. Obama is proof of how dangerous it is to elect a president who is on the wrong side of virtually every issue and who lacks the intellect to be a good executive. There are countless Americans who could walk into the white House and perform the executive job splendidly, by drawing on innate ability, acumen and life experience. Cruz would be at the top of that list, but you judge his experience too flippantly in saying it is non executive in nature.

            At any rate…he is unelectable on a national scale.

          • pete18

            I totally agree with you on your first point, but Obama’s problems are compounded by his lack of executive experience. Life experience could be a counter balance to a lack of executive experience but I’m not sure just being a sharp lawyer is enough.

          • John Cedar

            I meant to say, I think if you looked at the details of Cruz’s experience, it is more executive in nature than you might think.

            The only position close to being POTUS is being governor. But that gives the opposition too much ammunition. Look at Mitt. A perfect record of bipartisan brilliant governing came back to bite him in the a$$ by the MSN and attack commercials along with late night donkey television disguised as comedy.

            It couldn’t of hurt his performance from the standpoint of his communist supporters, if Obama had some experience before he took the office. But for all true, real, Americans, it is lucky he did not have experience so that he did such a poor job of getting his crap passed during the two years he had “all three branches”. OTOH…his intellectual deficit would have rendered any hypothetical executive experience you wish he had, as about as useful as singing lessons for Rosanne.

          • pete18

            Maybe, but someone with some executive experience may not have passed such a horrid health bill because they would have had a better chance seeing the folly of making such a massive change without both public and bipartisan congressional support. The current bill is so destructive and is going to be very difficult to get rid of.

          • John Cedar

            I never thought of that.
            I just assumed he wanted to redistribute existing healthcare services in the name of “social justice” and destroy the country in the process.

          • TFRX

            Gawd, that’s a pathetic gambit.

    • hennorama

      OPC — Yet more time and money to be wasted by Rep. Darrell “no hat, no cattle, all hair dye” Issa and other minor politicians trying to “make their bones.”

      • OnPointComments

        What is your opinion of the National Park Service erecting barricades and blocking off open-air memorials? Does this tactic meet with your approval?

        • hennorama

          OPC — TY for your response and your question.

          As a property owner, I understand the impetus to secure property against damage, and to reduce potential liability for any potential personal injury.

          • OnPointComments

            I’m sure most property owners would share your concerns. But even the most reasonable property owner would question why an unmanned open-air memorial, available to the public 24/7 when the government is operating, is barricaded when the government is shut down. If there’s a reason other than spite and vindictiveness, and to make sure the shutdown inconveniences as many people as possible, I can’t imagine what it is.

          • Steve__T

            Admitting you have no imagination…..LOL
            You don’t …LOL

          • hennorama

            OPC – TY again for your response.

            Three points:

            1. The Federal government is not operating as usual
            2. Recent vandalism incidents at the Lincoln Memorial, the National Cathedral, and elsewhere occurred under “normal” operating conditions, making it even more prudent to secure all premises under these extraordinary circumstances
            3. The National Park Service announced in advance that they would “take all necessary steps to close and secure national park facilities and grounds in order to suspend all activities except for those that are essential to respond to emergencies involving the safety of human life or the protection of property. Day use visitors will be instructed to leave the park immediately as part of Phase 1 closures. Visitors utilizing overnight concession accommodations and campgrounds will be notified to make alternate arrangements and depart the park as part of Phase 2. Wherever possible, park roads will be closed and access will be denied. National and regional offices and support centers will be closed and secured, except where they are needed to support excepted personnel. These steps will be enacted as quickly as possible while still ensuring visitor and employee safety as well as the integrity of park resources.”

            You may disagree with their actions, but they simply did exactly what they said they would. Only those not paying attention were surprised.

            See:
            http://www.doi.gov/shutdown/fy2014/upload/NPS-contingency-plan.pdf (NPS Contingency Plan)
            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/29/vandals-green-paint-dc_n_3672217.html (Vandalism incidents)
            http://www.doi.gov/shutdown/fy2014/upload/NPS-Fact-Sheet.pdf (DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
            CONTINGENCY PLAN ONE PAGER SUMMARY)

          • OnPointComments

            Can you honestly say that you believe the actions of the NPS are innocent and not orchestrated? What do you think the NPS Ranger meant when he said “We’ve been told to make life as difficult for people as we can. It’s disgusting.”

            I doubt that the DOI’s plan mandated the placing of cones along the public highway to make sure no one pulled over to look at Mount Rushmore, or the closing of the parking lot at privately-owned Mount Vernon. It’s the actions of a petty administration. When the shutdown is over, we’ll see if the National Park Service’s concern about vandalism still requires it to barricade open-air memorials to protect them. After all, the vandalism took place before the shutdown. And isn’t it odd that the President’s golf course remained open; the Imperial Presidency must have deemed it essential.

          • hennorama

            OPC – TY again for your thoughtful response, and your question.

            Obviously, the partial Federal shutdown is going to be somewhat randomly disruptive, and has caused some inconveniences. There’s no avoiding that fact.

            As no one knows how long this shutdown is going to last, it’s prudent to secure the properties. The NPS simply did what they said they were going to do. Again, you may or may not agree with them, but no one should be surprised.

            Basing one’s conclusions on a single unnamed source, such as “the NPS Ranger” you cited, is seldom advisable. I’ve already discussed the Mt. Rushmore circumstances, and according to one online publication that has reporters nearer to the site:

            “The cones first went up Oct. 1, said Dusty Johnson, Gov. Dennis Daugaard’s chief of staff. The state asked that they be taken down, and federal officials did so with some of them. The state was told the cones were a safety precaution to help channel cars into viewing areas rather than to bar their entrance.

            “I think reasonable people can disagree about that,” Johnson said.”

            See:
            http://siouxfallsbusinessjournal.argusleader.com/article/20131004/UPDATES/310040047/Rushmore-blockage-stirs-anger-S-D-

            As to what will happen when this nonsense finally ends – who knows? Certainly a return to normal NPS operations will be welcome to most people.

            As to “the President’s golf course” – if you’re referring to the course at Andrews AFB – all military installations remain open during this partial shutdown, as everyone knows. This falls under the category of another random part of the nonsense.

            This is a bit like paraphrasing a Hugh Grant movie title – ‘The Conservatives Who Went Up A Mole Hill And Came Down A Mountain.’

            It’s all part of the clown show, and is well-ignored.

          • HonestDebate1

            We own it.

          • Steve__T

            And you closed it! So shut up.

    • Steve__T

      Since you and some congresspersons, are too lazy to look up the information here ya go. now I ask you who is really responsible? because all are grandstanding, please read the links in entirely so you get the real deal.

      http://www.doi.gov/whoweare/jonjarvis.cfm

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Park_Service

      http://lakefronthistorian.com/2013/10/09/four-views-on-the-shutdown-and-the-national-park-service/

      http://cwmemory.com/2013/10/06/i-stand-with-the-national-park-service/

      • OnPointComments

        The government shutdown, regardless of who gets the blame for it, did not require the NPS to barricade the memorial, set up cones on highways, or remove handles from water faucets. “We’ve been told to make life as difficult for people as we can,” an angry National Park Service ranger told Washington Times columnist Wesley Pruden. “It’s disgusting” The park ranger indicated that there is a political motive behind the closure of the open-air memorials.

        • Steve__T

          Thanks for responding but I guess you still don’t get it.

          Congressman Castigates Park Ranger For The Memorial Closure He Voted For.

          Rep. Randy Neugebauer’s (R-Tex.) Wednesday’s confrontation of a poor park ranger on the scene — who was doing nothing more than her job — blaming her for the closure he voted for and telling her that she should be ashamed of herself. I love what the veteran said to him,

          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/03/congressman-park-ranger-memorial_n_4037524.html

          • OnPointComments

            We’re fortunate to have the congressional hearing to get to the bottom of it, unless of course we end up with another claim of executive privilege to stop the investigation.

          • Steve__T

            A hearing on what? A congressman should understand cause and effect. This is just more wasted time and money to try to place blame on someone else, kicking over a bucket of paint and pointing your finger at your little brother wont cut it. They need to grow up and take responsibility for their own actions and the effect of those actions, whether intended or not.

      • hennorama

        Steve__T — thanks for the links, especially the last two.

        • Steve__T

          hennorama, you are very welcome. I do not know if you watch Bill Moyer, but he had two of the most intelligent, well read women on his show and thought of you.

          http://billmoyers.com/episode/full-show-citizens-united-the-sequel/

          • hennorama

            Steve__T — thanks for thinking of me, and for the link. Bill Moyers has had an amazing career, and I catch his show as often as possible.

  • John Cedar

    A short while ago, I was delighted to hear that US Fish and Wildlife had “shut down”.

    While seeking a commercial site plan approval, part of the process involves getting them to sign off that they agree the town would be lead agency for the environmental review. (Normally those global warming alarmist, tree hugging bureaucratic, “D” students, at fish and wildlife, drag their feet on giving the answer. But in this case they immediately sent a letter saying they were closed. In what was in all probability an attempt to make the “shut down” hurt the public. But the town planning board simply took the letter to mean that they can’t be lead agency because they are closed. Yay government shutdown!!!

    • fun bobby

      well done town!

    • jefe68

      You tea party folks are pathetic.

      • John Cedar

        and we are racist.
        At the close of any day on wall Street, after manipulating the market and screwing Main Street, we celebrate the easy taking of our spoils by lifting our cups and drinking the blood of impoverished minority babies.

        Did you go to the mall and get your 5s yet?
        We’re counting on you and Chinese kids are counting on you so they can eat.

        • hennorama

          John Cedar =

        • jefe68

          I’ll defer to Marx:
          “He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don’t let that fool you. He really is an idiot.”

          • pete18

            No surprise that you would have that quote at your fingertips.

          • jefe68

            Well if the quote fits…
            Hey two with one quip… What Marxmenship.

          • fun bobby

            I was expecting Karl and not Groucho

    • HonestDebate1

      The localer the better.

      I am actually a big fan of the NC Fish and Wildlife. They do a great job managing our resources and the $20 I spend annually on a fishing license is money well spent. I’ll even obey all the limit and size rules while they are shut down because I’ve bought in.

      I don’t see why the feds need to be involved at all, especially regarding matters of construction. That’s not what they do.

      • JGC

        Why do feds need to be involved at all: I grew up near a national forest with a century-old stand of very rare and extremely valuable hardwood trees (to remain as vague as possible). If there are no parkland rangers on hand, what is to stop a band of rustlers from making a pass through and taking what belongs to the American people? They know we are in a shutdown, and surveillance is reduced, and American patrimony resources are now vulnerable.

        Folks may think, haha, tree rustlers, get real, but it happens. This forest, by the way, is truly a working forest; permits are given to do sustained harvests, and while it probably goes mainly to the contracting vendors, some is retained for the benefit of American citizens. (Including for the making of guitars with awesome sound.)

        • HonestDebate1

          The forestry department is a different entity but I would think the same thing applies. The states can do it.

        • fun bobby

          I would think those who actually pay for logging concessions the locals who live there and the public in general would have the will and ability to prevent tree poaching. perhaps declare an open season on tree poachers.

          • Steve__T

            No they would not. Remember taking the law into your own hands is against the law.

          • fun bobby

            that’s why an open season would need to be declared, then it would be lawful. everything in due course my good man. for now there is quite a bit concerned citizens could do like observe and report any violations. I bet illegal loggers would not like to be on youtube or have their activities streamed live.

  • bethrjacobs

    you would be wrong it was on NPR my local station WAMC many federal workers make extremely good money congressional aides make around 80K

    In fact I was referred by a child’s occupational therapist to work with them and their father was a Federal forestry worker lived in a250k plus home in a gated community and they couldn’t even keep their appointments with me very rich irresponsible people it was a real eye opener

  • bethrjacobs

    Yup and thank the Democrats for making them ‘discretionary and thus affected by this shut down (Bill Clinton) and Obama is about to cut more “entitlement programs”

  • OnPointComments

    The US government has been shut down several times. What makes this shutdown different is that Barack Obama spent taxpayer dollars to erect barricades at national monuments to keep the American public out. He wants Americans to know who the boss is. Today several hundred Americans stormed the barricades at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington DC.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOZKAl2V5uA#t=12

    • Mike_Card

      Get a grip.

    • StilllHere

      Are White House tours still limited to campaign contributors?

      • fun bobby

        the last lady who tried to take the white house tour by force got shot in the face in front of her child

        • StilllHere

          And she couldn’t find parking!

  • OnPointComments

    OBAMA’S SO-CALLED NEWS CONFERENCE: WHAT THE MEDIA FAILED TO ASK
    http://news.investors.com/politics-andrew-malcolm/100913-674341-obama-news-conference-shutdown-boehner-house.htm?p=full

    The entire article is interesting, and notes the questions that weren’t asked of the President, but here’s an especially interesting excerpt:

    But then the president made a telling slip. A reporter, apparently not in on the approved script, started to ask a question. However, the president called on someone else. And when the first reporter looked surprised, Obama said, “I’m just going through my list, guys. Talk to Jay.”

    Jay, of course, is Jay Carney, the press secretary. And what this reveals is that the press secretary had given the president a list of approved media names to call on for questions.

    It would be totally cynical of us to suggest that Obama’s press secretary had advance notice of reporters’ questions. And that he had approved those queries that would enable his boss to avoid messy distractions such as the Park Service and stay on rhetorical track about those irresponsible GOP guys who threaten an unprecedented national default.

    But we will anyway.

    • StilllHere

      Hmmm, a pact between the liberal MSM and Democrats. Nothing to see here, move along.

  • JGC

    Special message to OPC and other National Parks Conspiracy Theory addicts:

    Why would handles be removed from drinking water fountains in the national parks during the government shutdown? “Turbidity (in drinking water) has no health effects but can interfere with the disinfection processes at the Grand Canyon National Park and may provide a medium for microbrial growth. For those reasons, we routinely increase the chlorine residual of the drinking water and increase our microbiological water sampling and testing throughout periods of increased turbidity to insure that the drinking water is adequately disinfected.”

    We are in a shutdown of government services, people, and that includes monitoring health and safety of drinking water in National Parks.

    If Tea Partiers are so incensed over the lack of government inspected and disinfected water at the National Parks, pack in your own damn water! Don’t expect to turn on the taps and potable water will be flowing out at no taxpayer expense.

    • OnPointComments

      The faucet handles were removed from biking and jogging paths from Pittsburgh to Washington, DC.

      • JGC

        Yes, because they cannot be monitored for health reasons.

        OMG, not the biking and jogging paths! This is truly a nightmare….Really, I am so confused by a comment like this from an ardent supporter of the Right and Libertarian values such as yourself. Can’t bikers and joggers just carry in their own purchased Nestlé PureLife or VitaminWater? Why do my tax dollars have to support the hydration requirements of Ted Cruz as he jogs through Rock Creek Park, especially during a government wide shutdown that he demanded?

        And why are you so keen to first protect the government sanctioned freebies of Nike-clad joggers when poor young children are going without access to HeadStart and WIC?

        • fun bobby

          great idea we could lease out space for vending machines or have coin operated fountains. it does seem like more work to remove the handles than other options

    • fun bobby

      it makes one think of John Snow removing the pump handles during the cholera epidemic but this is more of an epidemic of stupidity and I don’t know that water is the source

  • OnPointComments

    Do you think Chuck Hagel traveled to Dover Air Force Base on Wednesday for the arrival of the remains of US soldiers, for the first time since he became Secretary of Defense over 7 months ago, to make up for not making the payments to the families of the deceased soldiers? Too little too late, Chuck.

    • JGC

      No, I think Hagel did it as a source of respect to the families of the four U.S. soldiers, and perhaps to offer gratitude to the Fisher House Foundation, which is overseeing the expenses associated with deceased solldiers’ families since the government is in Republican-demanded shutdown.

      Contrast that with the response made by Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld, who let hundreds and hundreds of dead soldiers surreptiously slip through Dover, so as not to bring public attention to the dead and wounded in the NeoCon-promoted Iraq War II.

      • OnPointComments

        Maybe Chuck at least learned a valuable lesson: don’t screw the families of dead soldiers on the advice of Eric Holder.

    • JONBOSTON

      Hagel is a buffoon. And our adversaries know it. An empty suit who most likely commands no respect from Putin, the Iranians, North Koreans , Islamic terrorists , and I venture to say most Americans ( at least those with functioning brains) . In other words, he and our affirmative action pretend president are cut from the same cloth.

      • tbphkm33

        WARNING: above, another prime example of a Tea Bagger making a buffoon comment.

        • jefe68

          He does come up with some real clinkers.
          It’s amazing that this regressive sits around thinking about this stuff.

          • JONBOSTON

            Show everyone how smart you are by putting forth a cogent persuasive argument in support of Hagel’s role as SecDef.

          • tbphkm33

            Nope, it is your responsibility to put forward a persuasive argument for why you do not like Mr. Hagel – instead of name calling Mr. Hagel and President Obama.

          • JONBOSTON

            Hagel is a buffoon. His confirmation hearing was a tour de force display of incompetence rarely seen in a washington hearing for a position as important as Secreatry of defense.His answers to questions were unfocused, unprepared , and unable to demonstrate any level of understanding of any of the difficult issues facing the country.Combine that with his out-of-the mainstream views on Iran, Israel, Hamas,and Hezbollah and the man should never have been nominated , let alone approved.
            It’s telling that during the Syrian fiasco, Hagel was nowhere to be seen. It’s obvious that Obama relied more on kerry than Hagel. Indeed, in testimony before Congress, Hagel mistakenly claimed that Russia supplied chemical weapons to Syria–the Pentagon was forced to clarify Hagel’s mistakes.Hagel piles confusion atop incompetence.
            What say you , genius.

          • Isernia

            Isn’t it wiser to first use the Sec. of State to try diplomatic solutions as in the Syrian situation than to immediately call in the Defense Dept.?
            No matter what he does, Hagel who spoke the truth about the Israel-Palestinian situation, will never be acceptable to you and others who believe Israel can do no wrong.

          • JONBOSTON

            Hagel is not acceptable to me because he’s incompetent. He’s an idiot masquerading as Secretary of Defense , just like Obama pretends to be president. Never has our country been more poorly served by a president.

          • JONBOSTON

            It’s been several days and I’ve yet to receive a response from you. Like most on the left , especially those that post here, you are incapable of making any rational logical persuasive argument IN SUPPORT of your position. Rather you prefer to attack the person than challenge the merits of my argument. I guess it’s better to be thought a fool than open your mouth ( or in your case by writing something) and removing all doubt.

  • JGC

    One of the big corporate losers in the Ted Cruz-inspired government shutdown is anti-gay-rights activist Philip Anschutz, owner of the Xanterra Parks and Resorts, a privately held company. Mr. Anschutz’s company has the concession rights to operate almost 10,000 hotel rooms and campsites, the best properties being in Yellowstone and the Grand Canyon.

    Thank goodness with state taxpayer backing, many of these properties will be briefly reopened, and the bottom line of Xanterra may yet be resurrected for the fiscal year.

    • HonestDebate1

      You are right and thank goodness for the jobs he creates. I’m sure the maids, clerks, maintenance men, groundskeepers and the rest of the staff is happy.

      • JGC

        Not to mention all the small supporting businesses that are on the outskirts of the parklands.

        The Chamber of Commerce groups throughout the country must not be pleased with their return on investment in the Republican Party.

  • anamaria23

    The global economy is in peril, millions of lives have been disrupted by the government shutdown, our soldiers are still dying in Afghanistan, our fellow citizens are digging out from flood ravaged communities, unemployment is still too high but commentators on this site are dreaming up a conspiracy at the Presidential press conference, are hoping that government workers lose their job, casting dispersion at Sec Hagel for greeting the dead soldiers and families. Rep Issa is conducting an investigation into who ordered what even though 90% of the country and the world already knows who is responsible for this national travesty, and, of course spending their days collecting grievances to fuel their contempt for the POTUS.
    The Tea Party has brought this on with their cruelty and hatred for the government and the POTUS. And their sycophants are thrilled even as they, in twisted logic, try to blame the Democrats for it all. Pathetic.
    Christine La Garde, head of IMF is speaking on Meet The Press today to convey the great peril to the world that looms..

    • hennorama

      No doubt some will dismiss the astute and accomplished Ms. Lagarde out of hand, as she is French.

      Her words of warning are ignored at one’s peril.

      • TFRX

        Hey, didn’t we learn from the French after their experience at Dien Bien Phu?

        Oh, wait…

        • hennorama

          TFRX — it seems like we learned to not divide a warring country along an exact line of latitude, but not much else.

          Although to be fair, we have been able to maintain a significant latitudinal dividing line with those repeat aggressors from the north — the Canuckians — despite the fact that one of their native-born is trying to crash our economy, in the form of Senator Rafael Edward Cruz.

          I’m craving some pastis, crusty bread, and warm brie just now, for some reason.

  • Fredlinskip

    Raising debt ceiling does not put America any more “in the red”-
    Do you pay your debts? If not, would not there be there short and long term consequences?
    If you would like to see America more in debt (due to higher interest), higher unemployment, lose credibility and influence around the world, and damage our and World economy- there’s a simple way to do it.
    Don’t raise debt ceiling.
    Ideological differences can be saved for actual budget negotiations, which GOP refused to participate in FOR PAST 6 MONTHS and for what?
    Silly theatrics that are damaging Americans.

    • HonestDebate1

      Raising the debt ceiling enables more insanity.

      • Fredlinskip

        Insanity is GOP in House refusing to sit down with Dems for past 6 months to negotiate differences concerning the budget.
        Why is that?

        • jefe68

          Because they want government to fail.

          • fun bobby

            what’s the rest of their plan?
            step one: make government fail
            step 2:?

        • HonestDebate1

          What budget?

          • Fredlinskip

            .

  • HonestDebate1

    We have been operating without a budget from Cr to CR since day one. Romney told us we would be here but it’s not rocket science.

    “You know that if the president is re-elected, he will still be unable to work with the people in Congress. I mean, he’s ignored them, he’s attacked them, he’s blamed them. The debt ceiling will come up again, and shutdown and default will be threatened, chilling the economy.”

    And remember S&P said “Cut, Cap and Balance” would have prevented the downgrade. It didn’t even get a vote in the Senate. Same ol’, same ol’.

    • Fredlinskip

      On 19 separate occassions GOP refused to participate in budget negotiations over past 6 months.

      • HonestDebate1

        That’s not a very accurate way to put it. When a Senator blocks the effort to cede duty and relegate decisions to a smoke filled few that’s not exactly refusing to negotiate. President Obama has never negotiated budgets. He has submitted budgets that can’t muster a vote from either party. Goose eggs. He won’t budge so we pass another CR… over and over. It’s on him.

        • Fredlinskip

          Senate efforts to enter into budget negotiations have been blocked by GOP for 6 months.
          It is only after GOP went on their whirlwind “let’s see how much we can hurt our own country” strategy, closing government, and threatening default, did GOP finally decide it was “time to negotiate”..

  • OnPointComments

    From the Obamacare enrollment website:

    “Choose a user name that is 6-74 characters long and must contain a lowercase or capital letter, a number, or one of these symbols _.@/-”.

    What do you think the chances are that someone would choose a user name that didn’t contain a lowercase or capital letter, a number, or one of these symbols _.@/- ?

    Maybe those instructions were written by President Obama’s chief technology advisor, Todd Park, who blamed the website problems on large volume. “Take away the volume and it works,” he told USA TODAY’s Tim Mullaney. As USAToday noted, “That’s like saying that except for the torrential rain, it’s a really nice day.”

    USAToday further noted:

    “Park said the administration expected 50,000 to 60,000 simultaneous users. It got 250,000. Compare that with the similarly rocky debut seven years ago of exchanges to obtain Medicare drug coverage. The Bush administration projected 20,000 simultaneous users and built capacity for 150,000.

    “That’s the difference between competence and incompetence.”

    • fun bobby

      no one will ever guess my 74 character obamacare password

      • hennorama

        fun bobby — some of the strongest passwords consist of sentences that make sense only to you, and the longer the better.

        • fun bobby

          if everyone has to buy their own obamacare or be fined then there wont be any advantage to stealing mine

          • hennorama

            fun bobby — you completely miss the point of the password.

          • fun bobby

            that particular one does not seem too useful to crack but I am sure some scammer somewhere could figure out a way to profit off it

      • OnPointComments

        I hope you made sure that your 74 character obamacare password contains a lowercase or capital letter, a number, or one of these symbols _.@/-

        If you chose
        !#$%^&*()_+={}|[]?/~`!#$%^&*()_+={}|[]?/~`!#$%^&*()_+={}|[]?/~`,!
        it won’t be valid.

        • fun bobby

          I wish I had noticed that before I memorized that 74 integer password I had come up with

  • hennorama

    No disrespect to any veterans, current members of the armed services, their families, friends, and loved ones, but the “Million Vet March” seems to have been misnamed by a factor of at least one thousand.

    It seems that veterans wisely understood the political stunt nature of this protest, and much like the truckers who voted with their wheels to stay away from the so-called “Ride for the Constitution,” veterans largely voted with their feet and stayed away from this so-called “March.”

    See:
    http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Vets-Plan-Rally-at-World-War-II-Memorial-227574101.html

    • tbphkm33

      The truck stunt was idiotic from the get-go. Diesel is expensive enough – not like a trucker is going to waste money driving any great distance for a demonstration, especially at 4 to 8 mpg.

      • TFRX

        I’m beginning to wonder if its actual mission was to get incredible amounts of slobbery friendly coverageon the air at over by Fox News

        • fun bobby

          I think its actual mission was to upset liberals. mission accomplished

    • pete18

      It was a powerful protest summed up beautifully by this photo.

      • jefe68

        Well you small government types want this.
        This is what small government looks like.
        The sad thing is this chap is being used by the tea party GOP caucus, the ones who started this crisis.

        You can keep posting all the propaganda you want. The bottom line if small government is what you want then things will be shut down.

        • fun bobby

          a small government uses public resources to keep the public out of public areas?

          • jefe68

            You seem to be either willfully or woefully ignorant of the what I’m on about.
            I’m not sure it’s even worth it anymore trying to even respond ot the level of idiocy I’m seeing here. It’s pathetic, really pathetic.

          • pete18

            We can see that you are impressed with your own arguments.

          • fun bobby

            jefe a small govt does not mean we can not have parks and such. that’s silly

        • pete18

          It costs more to put up those barriers than to do nothing.

          • jefe68

            Yawn, again.

      • hennorama

        pete18 — the photo proves my point, that attendance was, to be polite, sparse.

    • OnPointComments

      Perhaps the counters were the same people who announced that the California health insurance exchange had 5 million hits during its first day of enrollment, when the actual number was 645,000.

      • hennorama

        OPC — I have seen no photo or video showing more than a few hundred people in attendance, which was my point.

        • OnPointComments

          I was in a restaurant the other night and had a slice of its “Million Dollar Pie.” It cost $6.95. Perhaps they didn’t mean it literally.

          • hennorama

            OPC — perhaps that’s the cumulative revenue generated from that particular recipe. Maybe that’s what the stunt protest organizers meant, that eventually, a cumulative million veterans will “march.”

          • fun bobby

            maybe the whole pie was a million and that was just a tiny slice of it

  • tbphkm33

    To end government shutdowns, end partisan gerrymandering
    by Sanford Levinson October 13, 2013

    Commentary: The current impasse is exactly how our system is expected to function. We need to change it.
    http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/10/13/government-shutdowngerrymanderingdistricts.html

  • JGC

    Speaking of the Republican Party, don’t forget tonight is the season premiere of “The Walking Dead” at 9:00 PM (EST).

  • nytw

    The reason there is a crisis is Obama refuses to consider compromise. His arrogance and incompetence is staggering,

  • fun bobby

    anyone protesting the lack of IRS audits yet?

  • Stochast

    I can’t help but think that the people speaking at the “Values Voters Summit” have pretty terrible values.

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