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Week In The News: Russia, Syria And Colorado Senate Recalls

The President hits pause on Syria.  Colorado gun control champions recalled.  A pause again for 9/11.  Our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, left, and U.N. Special Representative Lakhdar Brahimi, center, greet each other as Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov looks on after they delivered a statement to the media after a meeting discussing Syria at the United Nations offices in Geneva, Switzerland, Friday, Sept. 13, 2013

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, left, and U.N. Special Representative Lakhdar Brahimi, center, greet each other as Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov looks on after they delivered a statement to the media after a meeting discussing Syria at the United Nations offices in Geneva, Switzerland, Friday, Sept. 13, 2013

It’s hard to remember a week like this in American foreign policy.  A president throwing the brakes on a military strike to ask Congress for support – that doesn’t come.  A Russian diplomatic push becoming an overnight American diplomatic push.  Vladimir Putin lecturing Americans on exceptionalism .  It may all turn out great – Syria disarmed of chemical weapons, no US quagmire.  It may be a mess.  We’ve record US inequality, wild floods and a big gun control recall in Colorado, Twitter going public.  Up next On Point:  Our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

- Tom Ashbrook

Guests

David Ignatius, Washington Post columnist and author of “Bloodmoney,” “Body of Lies,” “A Firing Offense,” and “Agents of Innocence.” (@IgnatiusPost)

Kristen Welker, White House correspondent for NBC News. (@KWelkerNBC)

Jack Beatty, On Point news analyst.

From Tom’s Reading List

BloombergNews: Twitter Seeks to Avoid Facebook’s IPO Stumble — “The San Francisco-based company filed confidentially with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission through a process that will keep sales and profit data under wraps until shortly before a road show to market to investors. Twitter may be seeking to avoid the hype that led to Facebook pricing its offering at 107 times trailing 12-month earnings, more expensive than 99 percent of all companies in the Standard & Poor’s 500 Index at the time. Facebook lost half its value following the $16 billion IPO.”

Denver Post: Colorado Senate President John Morse, state Sen. Angela Giron ousted — “Democrats control the Senate, the House and the governor’s office. Even with Morse and Giron leaving, Democrats retain a one-seat majority in the Senate. The National Rifle Association, which donated about $360,000 to support the recalls, hailed Morse’s loss, telling The Denver Post it ‘is proud to have stood with the men and women in Colorado who sent a clear message that their Second Amendment rights are not for sale.’”

Boston Globe: Proposal for Syria’s chemical weapons long in making — “State Department officials quickly issued a statement that Kerry’s remark was not intended as a formal ultimatum. Kerry, they said, was merely making a “rhetorical” answer – and articulating a deal that was so outlandish that it would probably never happen. The effort by the State Department to try to walk back the impact of Kerry’s remark helped create the impression that he had committed a gaffe. But then Obama’s administration publicly embraced the idea. Even though Kerry had not made a formal proposal, his remark was consistent with the early stages of a discussion taking place within the administration, according to a senior State Department official.”

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  • OnPointComments

    It’s telling that “From Tom’s Reading List” notes that the NRA donated about $360,000 to support the Colorado recall election, yet neglects to mention that anti-gun advocate Michael Bloomberg donated $350,000, and progressive gun-control groups raised about $3 million to support Morse and Giron. The omission might lead one to think that the NRA bought the recall election, when the facts show that it was a lot of gun-control money that failed to buy the election.

    • jefe68

      Well it’s NPR and you right wingers love getting your knickers in a twist if Tom even parks his car on the left hand side of the road.

    • StilllHere

      Thanks for the facts.

    • jimino

      I overheard Ed pointing out that no sooner than the election results favoring the NRA were in, God unleashed fatal storms on the State of Colorado. Doesn’t that prove who’s right?

      • Ed75

        Sometimes, as Freud said, a cigar is just a cigar.

        • Ray in VT

          Except when we want something to be the work of God?

        • J__o__h__n

          God only intervenes for abortion and gays.

          • Ed75

            The idea of punishment for sin, personal and corporate, is a very large one in theology. One purpose of these disasters, as seen in Revelation, is to separate us from our attachments to sin and to things of this world and to turn again to God (seen many times in the Old Testament also). But some react by cursing God, when that is not what God wants.
            Also Jesus said ‘Do not fear the first death, fear the second death (the death of the soul)’, that is the death he is trying to save us all from.

  • 2Gary2

    Is kerry really alive? he looks just like a corpse.

    • StilllHere

      Kerry’s twisted. He came to power lying about Vietnam war atrocities supposedly committed by US soldiers, he lied about his service in Vietnam, and now Putin has accused him of lying about Syria.

      • Ray in VT

        He lied about American atrocities in Vietnam, really? He told some brutal truths about the actions that some of our soldiers took against the Vietnamese people, and he’s been hounded by dimwits and deniers about it every since. If you don’t think that we did some terrible things to the Vietnamese people, then you are gravely mistaken.

      • jimino

        Reveling in your ignorance. You must be supremely blissful.

  • Coastghost

    Adapting a Russian joke of the Soviet era:
    Sec. Kerry, Amb. Power, and Pres. Obama find themselves on a cross-country train trip, when out in the middle of the Great Plains the train loses momentum until it finally crawls to a stop.
    Sec. Kerry wants to go have some stern words with the engineer and remonstrate with him on the responsibility to keep the train on time.
    Amb. Power wants to sack the engineer immediately and throw him from the train if necessary.
    Pres. Obama chimes up: “Let’s just pull the shades down and pretend we’re still moving.”

    • Don_B1

      Reminds me more of Rep. Eric Cantor, Sen. Ted Cruz, and Speaker John Boehner in relation to the economy.

  • jefe68

    Wing Nut Tree…

    • William

      He lives rent free in your head.

      • StilllHere

        Well it’s vacant space.

        • HonestDebate1

          Except for the demons.

          • jefe68

            You two remind me of Beavis and Butthead.

      • jefe68

        Ah yes, a grown man responds with the mental acumen of a 10 year old to a bit political satire.

        • HonestDebate1

          Dude, you just quoted Bugs Bunny!

          • jefe68

            Context, buddy, context. You should try it some time.

        • William

          We should have more successful ten year olds like him.

    • keltcrusader

      god i love this!

    • J__o__h__n

      One tree the liberals won’t hug.

  • Unterthurn

    Have not heard anything about Putin using the United States of America’s ‘Freedom of Speech’ form while in his own country this expression in lyrics would put young women in prisons. Think this type of influence could be considered an attempt at brainwashing in Russia.

    This super rich manipulator is running a PR campaign for his monetary gain. Wars have not changed. Countries used to look for expansion to gain gold and spices and colonies, now they go for oil with the appearance of wearing white gloves. There is something going on he doesn’t want us to know about.

    If he really was so interested in peace the article would also have been given to the “LA Times” and The “Wall Street Journal” for simultaneous release. Hope my state representatives in the House and Senate are angry that Russia is using insults and back door methods to try and control the people of the USA. Hopefully this all backfires and brings the two sides together for a united front against war for the country’s own benefit. Right now America needs to take care of itself. It will be okay to be selfish for once.

  • Wm_James_from_Missouri

    Voyager 1 has left the our helio-system ! Eat your heart out Elvis. Yes, cruising at a slumbering speed of 38,000 miles per hour and sporting an 8 track recorder, it’s transmitter, powered by a 23 watt power source, continues to remind us of a time when we dreamed big dreams and had great visions of things to come. But the people cried out, “stop wasting our money on such nonsense, can’t you see we have needs, all of that money you are spending could be put to better use, helping us!” . After all was said and done, the criers won out, our leaders abandoned project after project, to save that “wasted” money. Now, here we stand, awake, without a dream, and broke. Uninspired, drifting, decaying, being led to a global lowest denominator, leaderless. I guess I should be comforted, knowing that Voyager 1, remains steadfast in its’ mission, pushing ever forward into the dream.

    • Wm_James_from_Missouri
    • northeaster17

      But we have these awesome weapon systems to keep us safe. What could go wrong?

    • keltcrusader

      I heard that the Voyager operates on less computing power than an iPhone and yet its still chugging along after 36 yrs and sending back data.

      Just another glaring example of how things were built to last back then and our current “throw-it-away” society

      • J__o__h__n

        Fortunately NASA paid for the equipment upfront and didn’t sign up for a service contract for the signal.

      • sickofthechit

        It has some sort of small nuclear reactor…..did we continue development????

    • MrNutso

      I forget the author, but there’s a great science fiction short story about NASA types and aliens watching years old video of a space lander landing on far away planet. As it turns out the planets inhabitants already had faster than light spacecraft and visited Earth years before the landers video made it back at light speed.

      I’m always reminded of that story when I hear about hear about Voyagers latest exploits.

      • Ray in VT

        I remember reading a story in the first grade about a spaceship landing, and a crowd gathered to see what sort of strange, alien creatures might emerge from another world. The door opened, and humans emerged. It blew my mind at 5 or 6 (I can’t remember when in the year it was).

        • MrNutso

          I think in your story, the crowd was Congressional Republicans and Humans were coming to set them straight.

  • JONBOSTON

    It will be interesting to see how Tom , Jack and David Ignatius spin Obama’s performance of this past week. Any serious minded observer would have to question Obama’s competence and inability to accept the mantle of presidential leadership . As I look back a year ago conventional wisdom was that Obama may have made a mess of domestic economic matters but foreign policy was his strength. What a farce! Today our adversaries are openly mocking our pretend president and our allies are bewildered. The mainstream media ( and Tom and Jack in particular) have propped up this incompetent and accepted any lame excuse given by Obama for his failures. What say you today Tom and Jack?

    • jimino

      How many of our troops or civilians died this week, as we commemorate over 3,000 dying while your peeps were in charge, not to mention the tens of thousands who died due to their incompetent response. What happened the past week that was so so terrible in the real world?

    • Don_B1

      The sequence of events has not played out in a nice coherent way, but much of this type of world events are not “coherent.” And since the end of the Cold War, with a growing multiplicity of actors, it is getting even more incoherent.

      But the “adversaries openly mocking” President Obama have been led not by foreign adversaries but by the hater chorus in the Republican/Tea Party. Is it any wonder that others are imitating them?

      As for whether President “Obama may have made a mess of domestic economic matters” everyone should consider the absolute rejection of most of President Obama’s proposals for economic recovery after the one partially successful American Recovery and Reinvestment Act was passed with no Republican support in the House and only the support of three Republicans in the Senate (led by Sen. Arlen Specter) who evidently defied the Republican decision to deny any and all proposals favored by President Obama.

      Why President Obama did not make clear at the signing (or before) of the ARRA that it might not be large enough to complete the work of recovery may only be known later and it is doubtful that it would have changed things that much as the Republican campaign to oppose and discredit his every action has been thorough if nothing else. The current “Sequester” is having the effect of holding the economy hostage to Republican threats against spending which, if accommodated will only destroy the middle class.

      All one has to see is the growth in inequality demonstrated in the latest Piketty/Saez data as shown here:

      http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/good-times-at-the-top/

      Also read Chrystia Freeland’s article:

      http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/us/23iht-letter23.html?_r=0

  • Coastghost

    Flash flood in Colorado sweeps away two Democratic state senators–details at ten.

    • HonestDebate1
    • JGC

      Where is our resident expert on God’s wrath? I am pretty sure He ordered the flooding because of His displeasure with the Colorado vote to abort state senators Giron and Morse.

      • Ray in VT

        Down below. Not God’s wrath, apparently.

  • AnneDH

    We should stop assuming that the Soviet Union collapse meant the end of the Cold War. It never did, folks.

    • Coastghost

      Should Americans blame the Russians entirely for their suspicions regarding our intentions? Clinton, Albright, Cohen, Blair, et al., launched their humanitarian war in the Balkans (Russia’s sphere of influence) without UNSC authorization and in contravention of the NATO charter itself in 1999, at just the time Russia was still on its heels recovering from the dissolution of the Soviet Union. The Russians, oddly, have remembered that gratuitous slap, based as it was on faulty intelligence and outright lying (Clinton’s “genocide” argument [the graves of Clinton and Cohen's missing 100,000 Albanian Kosovars NEVER were found, since they were never murdered--of the 12,000-odd graves found, 60% of fatalities WERE Albanian, but 40% were Serb: these percentages find their context in the further measure that Kosovo's population at the time was over 1.5 million Albanian vs. fewer than 150,000 Serb, and NATO bombing itself accounted for the deaths of hundreds of the Albanians]). A competent historian can make the case that Clinton’s humanitarian war further enfeebled Yeltsin’s reformers and paved the way for Putin’s ascent.
      And the Russians don’t entirely trust us, hunh?

      • AnneDH

        Fairly put – my comment was not to blame the Russians; it takes two or more to sustain this cold war There is certainly plenty of blame to go around.

        I am speaking in much broader terms, from my study of Russian history and culture. Russia is the first case in recent history (the Arab Spring up-risers being the second) to prove that you just can’t slam Democracy upon a nation that has centuries of strong central government, while average people manage their day to day lives relying on black markets for the goods that matter, plus other cultural characteristics I have no room for here.

        Democracy might have a chance in these countries if introduced from the ground-up over a few years’ time, i.e. at the village/burrough level first, then city & province, then finally representation at the top level.

        • Don_B1

          Tom Friedman reinforced your point on Sunday’s “Meet the Press” on NBC, saying that the Arab countries of the Mideast do not have a Nelson Mandela who can guide a transition to democracy from the dictatorships which have prevailed for their history.

          The United States had democratic government, with onerous “oversight” actions from Great Britain, for over a hundred years, over four generations, to develop an understanding of how democracy works, though it would seem some days that we still don’t really understand our responsibilities to make it work even today.

          • AnneDH

            Interesting. An excellent book about how the Americans created their own democratic culture: The Radicalism of the American Revolution by Gordon S. Wood. I saw parallels in what China has gone through the past 25 years.

    • J__o__h__n

      I miss the cold war. Sane godless opponents are infinitely preferable to the current foes.

    • Jon

      right because it would imply evil doesn’t exist right?

  • Ray in VT

    Former George W. Bush Press Secretary and current Fox News employee Dana Perino is “tired” of atheists, and says that “they don’t have to live here.”

    • Shag_Wevera

      Whadda patriot!

    • HonestDebate1

      True that, no one does.

      • Ray in VT

        True. The bigots could have packed up and left when they lost on civil rights, but they stuck around. Maybe Dana should reconsider her place of residence if she has a problem living with atheists around. I’m sure that there are some countries that have taken steps to insure that non-believers don’t live there anymore.

    • jefe68

      In the words of that great sage Bugs Bunny, what a maroon.

      There it is, a media bigot.

      • Ray in VT

        You mean Cuban Missile Crisis expert Dana Perino?

        • jefe68

          Yes, what an idiot.

          • Ray in VT

            Well, I’m not going to go that far, but come on. That’s a pretty major event. One of my former co-workers was in the Army then, and he said that they were out drinking during the lead up to the showdown, and the MPs rolled up in trucks, rounded them all up, and took them back to base, where they started packing up for a potential deployment in the case of a hot war.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Ray, you get an incomplete.

      She said she was tired of atheists who want to remove “under God” from the pledge of allegiance. This is far different than stating she was tired of ‘atheists’.

      http://www.examiner.com/article/atheists-spew-hate-death-wishes-against-dana-perino-over-pledge-of-allegiance

      • MrNutso

        Correct. By extension, she is tired of atheists who want to return the pledge back to it’s original form.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          Here are some examples of tolerance from the atheist ‘activists’. If this behavior came from the Tea Party it would lead the nightly news for weeks.


          “F**k Dana Perino -that christian bigot c**t- and f**k Fox News,” tweeted “ProphetAtheist.”

          That message was fairly representative of the messages posted by others.

          McCain said the messages are “a recurrent theme with God-haters,”
          referencing our report of liberals who expressed a desire to rape Paul Ryan and his wife during the 2012 election.”

          • Ray in VT

            More from the Examiner. Let’s take a look at some of what gets said about atheists, gays, etc by some on the conservative side of the aisle on platforms such as Twitter. I’m willing to bet that there is some pretty ugly stuff there. Should we judge all conservatives/Republicans, etc based upon those statements?

      • Ray in VT

        I am aware of whom she was speaking. So, should atheists, or anyone else, with whom one does not agree with on any particular issue be invited to leave the country? I dislike such sentiments. There’s plenty of room for all opinions. Even the nutty ones, and I have no problem with the Pledge as originally conceived.

        • jefe68

          As I said, she’s an idiot.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          Did you hear about the atheist group in NYC that sued to prevent a woman from praying for the safety of the children outside a public school in NH?

          Prior to the suit, the school had no issue with the mother of a student praying.

          She is reacting to the activists who have been attempting to purge all religion from society — like all references to Christmas.

          • Ray in VT

            Nope. I hadn’t heard about that. If she’s outside the school, then let her be. I think that things like that are ridiculous.

            Is it time for the War on Christmas again?

            Back when I used to work for a public library we had a fundamentalist Christian who made so much trouble for the library for it’s pagan displays (Halloween decorations), that the library just stopped doing stuff for the kids that time of the year. Stuff like that is just stupid no matter who does it.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Sounds like we agree.

            I find your library example highly analogous.

          • Ray in VT

            It’s just all so stupid, although I personally do not care for the “under God”. I’m fine with public displays of worship, even on public lands, just so long as groups have equal access to put up their decorations or whatever and the public isn’t paying for it.

          • keltcrusader

            She was actually praying on the front steps of the school on school property, with a bible in hand while students entered the building.
            “I stand up, lift my hands to praise the Lord with my Bible holding and sometimes kneeling,” she said.”
            Read more: http://www.wmur.com/news/nh-news/mother-told-she-cant-pray-on-grounds-of-concord-high-school/-/9857858/21362260/-/1v8astz/-/index.html#ixzz2emYjCZXG

          • Ray in VT

            Well, that could get a bit dicey.

          • TFRX

            Jeez, sounds like the ACLU needs to sue for a buffer zone so kids can “escape” into school from her.

            (Any resemblance between the person in your link and Operation Rescue is purely intentional on my part.)

          • jefe68

            That’s because they are stupid small minded people with small insignificant lives.

          • J__o__h__n

            Every year the whining about the “war on Christmas” starts even earlier.

          • TFRX

            Yeah. What happened to the old days when my CVS at least cleared out the Halloween pagan ritual candy and decorations first?

          • jefe68

            And it was a pagan holiday back in the day.

          • Ray in VT

            What? Jesus wasn’t born in conjunction with a Roman pagan holiday? Next thing you’ll be telling me that he wasn’t white.

          • jefe68

            He was not white.

          • Ray in VT

            Are you sure? I’m pretty sure that he was white, had blue eyes, loved the free market and guns and whatever else I want him to.

          • keltcrusader

            lol

          • jefe68

            Good one Ray.

      • HonestDebate1

        Ray takes exception when he perceives atheists are being slighted but feel free to bash Christians all you want.

        Thanks for clearing that up, I think the world of Perino and Ray’s comment wreaked of something fishy.

        • Ray in VT

          Get me out of your head.

          When do I bash Christians? You must be thinking of someone else. I don’t recall telling or suggesting anyone that they should git out for saying or believing something that I do not like or agree with.

          • jefe68

            There it is, and it’s not even noon yet.
            The stench of mendacity.

          • Ray in VT

            I thought that it was the smell of that burger that he’s been trying to serve me all week on other pages.

          • jefe68

            Yep, a mendacity burger (served on a bigot seed bun) with regressive fries and a tea party shake.

          • Ray in VT

            I suggested that it was a turd burger.

          • keltcrusader

            sure it wasn’t served on a liberty muffin?

          • Ray in VT

            With a side of freedom fries and liberty cabbage?

          • HonestDebate1

            And to think now France is taking the lead in Libya and Syria.

          • jefe68

            Oh that’s good, liberty muffin…

          • HonestDebate1

            I can buy a lot of burgers with the money I didn’t have to send to the NAACP as a result of you not being able to back up what you wrote.

          • HonestDebate1

            Straw man alert, neither did Perino.

            I would say maybe ridicule is a better word than bash if I were accusing you of bashing Christians which I decidedly did not.

          • Ray in VT

            How do you interpret “they don’t have to live here”, although I did not say that she said that people should get out. It seems fairly close to me.

            Were you not, or have you not in the past, accusing me of bashing Christians. At the very least you accused me of being fine with bashing Christians. Please provide me with some statements that I have made where I have ridiculed Christians. If you can figure out the search box fuction, that is.

          • HonestDebate1

            No I did not accuse you of bashing Christians, yes I am accusing you of not defending them when that are bashed as you are defending atheist when you perceive they are.

            I’m not going to search, if you say you’ve never ridiculed Christians as unthinking or having a history of destruction then fine. But you know in your heart you have.

          • Ray in VT

            I defend people when I see fit. I will take it that you cannot provide an instance when I have done what you accuse me of doing. Thank you for conceding the point.

          • HonestDebate1

            No I just refuse to because I don’t care. You were the one who tried to railroad Perino by misrepresenting what she said.

          • jefe68

            Then why go on and on, and on and on.

          • Ray in VT

            Or you just can’t figure out the search box or can’t support your argument. You could always try a youtube video or go over to Steve Goddard’s blog. Maybe he has something useful to say about it.

            I gave her words. She did not say “atheists who complain about the pledge can just not live here” or something. From what I read of her words, she did not specify what sort of atheists don’t have to live here.

          • Don_B1

            No, you just like to see your words in print as you try to wreak havoc on the site with ideas that reek of dead fish.

          • HonestDebate1

            Is that a reference to Rahm Emanuel? But I did catch a boatload of fish yesterday, I thought i got it all off of me.

          • Don_B1

            I didn’t think you were that obtuse.

          • HonestDebate1

            Sure you did.

      • northeaster17

        It is not only athiests who would like to see that line removed. And besides, many of us are tired of Dana Perino.

        • Ray in VT

          I just didn’t say that part when I was a kid.

          • TFRX

            Lucky for you your fellow schoolkids didn’t go all “The Crucible” on your butt, screaming “Ray’s a witch Communist! He’s not praying the pledge!”

          • Ray in VT

            Well, I did grow up in Vermont. It was probably just about the least religious state in the 1980s, just like now.

          • Don_B1

            I remember it being introduced when I was in grammar school. I just never understood the need for it.

  • HonestDebate1

    Who has paid a price for the Benghazi debacle? …. Besides the four killed? Have the murderers been apprehended? No. Is Hillary still being considered a Presidential favorite despite the blood on her hands? Yes. Why is the CIA hiding the witnesses if Obama was sincere about getting o the bottom of it? Why was the Benghazi CIA contingent so large and what was that a secret? What were thy up to? Were they supplying arms in violation of UN sanctions?

    • Shag_Wevera

      Not enough people care about this to make a difference. I suggest forgetting it. Move along, nothing to see here…

      • HonestDebate1

        The attempt to kick the can of incompetent atrocity far enough down the road until people don’t care has been successful.

        • J__o__h__n

          Are you referring to the file “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US” dated August 6. 2001?

          • HonestDebate1

            No. After Bin Laden’s failed attempt to bring down the towers in 1993 that was the biggest “duh” PDB of all time. Do you think Bush should have immediately and indefinitely grounded all airlines?

          • J__o__h__n

            Perhaps followed known Islamists who were in the country.

          • northeaster17

            He did not ground all the airlines. He let the Saudi’s out first. Remeber?

          • Don_B1

            The presentation of a false choice only wins an argument when the deciders do not think for themselves.

            Do you really think that many readers of this website are that “easy”?

          • HonestDebate1

            I just think the idea that the PDB was significant, especially in the context of the warnings about Benghazi, is laughable, that’s all.

          • Ray in VT

            I was thinking maybe all of those heads that rolled following the Iraq debacle.

          • HonestDebate1

            Ah yes, according to Shag Benghazi is in the past. Move on. Let’s talk about Bush and Iraq instead. Let’s call it a debacle. Nice.

          • Ray in VT

            All of those complaining about heads needing to roll regarding Benghazi, which was a tragedy, but who pooh-pooh the mistakes regarding Iraq and make apologies for those people make me laugh. It strikes me a bit like the logic behind locking up a black guy for 15 years for stealing $100 while giving 3 years to a white guy that bilks people out of $3 billion.

    • MrNutso

      America: ____, Republicans: Benghazi

      • TFRX

        At least the RW has gotten over their “A noun, a verb and 9/11″ fetish.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      It will take a purge and replacement of the “most transparent regime” in history to find the truth.

    • JONBOSTON

      What’s amazing is that Hillary is considered a leading candidate for 2016 by our pathetic mainstream media.. She accomplished absolutely nothing as Sec of State during her tenure other than rack up frequent flyer miles and promote womens issues at UN sponsored events while serious issues were ignored. She was treated more as a celebrity than someone dealing with serious concerns. In the meantime international problems festered. The smartest thing she ever did was leave the administration before ” the chickens came home to roost”.

      • HonestDebate1

        It maybe a little unfair to say she has done nothing, she has made things worse.

      • StilllHere

        There’s always the what difference do some dead American bodies make line of hers.
        Looks like the Russian reset button works great though.

  • Shag_Wevera

    Just saw on the news that in our current economic “recovery”, the top 5% of earners have garnered 100% of the economic gains. When will the revolution begin? 95% of the people have exactly one advantage over the 5%. They can swarm and overwhelm them, at the ballot box and if need be, in the streets. Stand up and fight, you goddamned sheep!!!

    • MrNutso

      Krugman does an excellent job of parsing the top 10%. Most of the gains actually went to the top 5%, and then most of those gains went to the top 1%, and then most of those gains went to the top 0.1%, and finally most of those gains went to the top 0.01%.

      The top 0.1% of wage earners have an average annual income of 1.9 million dollars.

    • HonestDebate1

      Obama raised taxes on the rich and gave Obamaphones to the poor. He threw a trillion plus at stimulus. He created Obamacare to lower premiums. We’ve had 5 years of his policies to “spread the wealth round”.

      And the gap is bigger? How is this possible?

      • jefe68

        And you wonder why I mock you.

        • HonestDebate1

          I don’t wonder at all. It’s all you can do.

          • jefe68

            Try using your brain. I know it’s hard, but at least try.

          • HonestDebate1

            Thank you.

          • StilllHere

            That guy used to be funny, now he’s just pathetic. It’s funny how you make him dance though.

          • HonestDebate1

            They do an extra jig when I point out they are criticizing Obama’s policy results.

          • jefe68

            One problem there oh regressive one, I’ve not been a fan of President Obama or many of his policies for years. But not for the same reasons as the regressive right wing.

          • HonestDebate1

            Then why are you dancing dutifully on command?

      • Don_B1

        The gap is bigger for a number of reasons:

        1) The stimulus, for all of what sounds like a big number, had to try to replace the LOSS of over $2 TRILLION of GDP in the same period. While it was not necessary that it be equal, being less than half of the loss is like sending a guy with a 18″ reel mower to mow your back 40 acres.

        2) The Republicans, led by their Tea Party members, have opposed any increases in spending that would help put unemployed workers back to work. The public sector has LOST some 800,000 jobs over the recovery period, while the private sector, while adding more jobs is held back by the loss of spending by those now unemployed public sector workers, mostly teachers and first responders. That would lower the unemployment rate by at least 1% to 1.5%.

        3) The power of middle- and lower-income workers to get pay raises is severely constrained by the high unemployment rate, thereby restricting the gains in income by the 99% to next to nothing easily understandable for anyone willing to actually confront reality instead of living in a fantasy world of Republican “themes.”

        4) While the taxes on the “rich” have been raised slightly, the top 0.01% get little of their income from wages and most from rent-seeking opportunities which have not been changed at all in this period. This is because of Republican (and some Democratic) Party opposition, to the extent that President Obama, fighting hard to get other proposals with more immediate impact with little success due to that intransigence, has apparently decided not to pursue at this time.

        But you will continue to cherry pick your arguments and come down on the wrong side of the facts.

        • keltcrusader

          Don_B1 have I told you lately that I love you?

    • fun bobby

      what are you sitting there typing for?

      • StilllHere

        butt stuck to couch, permanently

        • fun bobby

          at this point I am convinced we will never have any sort of revolt or revolution as long as the wi fi still works

        • Shag_Wevera

          EZ chair, actually.

          • StilllHere

            Is it light enough you could carry it in the streets with you?

    • pete18

      Whose names should the revolutionaries be stuffing in the ballot box?

    • StilllHere

      Maybe we’re all in the top 5%!

  • Shag_Wevera

    Vladimir Putin is right. It is arrogant and absurd to claim that the citizens of one nation are “exceptional”. Internationally we are bullies, domestically we are greedy and ignorant pigs. The world doesn’t resent our freedom, they despise our arrogance.

    • northeaster17

      The term American Exceptionalism always makes me feel a bit quesy. We’ve done good and we’ve done bad. Exceptionalism is just an excuse for our screw ups. If we were that exceptional we would own up to our failures.

      • Jon

        Exceptionalism is the derivation from the chosnship

    • SteveTheTeacher

      Agreed.

      Nationality is an artificial, ad-hoc, construct bestowed on most by luck of birth. Some US citizen’s have done exceptionally great things, as have people from all parts of the world.

      Putin’s repression of the Chechen’s, Georgians, Russians who challenge his power, Russians who advocate for greater freedoms, and GBLT Russians demonstrate that the US is not the patent on international bullying and domestic ignorance and plutocratic policy.

      The lessons from history are clear, promoting national exceptionalism is dangerous.

      It is also clear that, with about 70 overt and covert military actions / CIA interventions since World War II (http://williamblum.org/books/killing-hope), the US is not the “anchor of global security” over the last 70 years that President Obama has claimed.

    • TFRX

      I’m just fascinated by those (not you) who have to figure out whether Putin is their new manlyman bro-crush, now that Putin has said this about what was formerly a RW talking point.

    • Don_B1

      northeaster17 SteveTheTeacher TFRX

      One aspect of President Obama’s use of the term “exceptionalism” is that he (back in 2009) said it applied as follows: “we have a core set of values that are enshrined in our Constitution, in our body of law, in our democratic practices, in our belief in free speech and equality, that, though imperfect, are exceptional.

      See:

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/yes-vladimir-america-is-exceptional/2013/09/12/4b234320-1be2-11e3-a628-7e6dde8f889d_story.html

      Note that President Obama was not saying that Americans were exceptional, he was saying that we set out to try to live up to an exceptional set of core values. It was not the time or place for him to say that Americans do not always live up to those ideals.

      I personally could be convinced that other democracies, notably but not exclusively, many in the European community have near equivalent (including the possibility of better or worse) core values, though I could also agree that we support ours differently than they do theirs.

  • Ed75

    It looks like Pope Francis’ worldwide prayer vigil and hour of Adoration for peace, and his letter to President Putin at the G8, produced results – Secretary Kerry’s unintended offer, its acceptance. A delay in the attack. Today we’re supposed to fast for peace. He is opening some of the convents in Rome for Syrian refugees.
    On October 13 Pope Francis will consecrate the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary – the last time this was done was in 1984, Pope John Paul II consecrated Russia and the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Five years later Communism fell without a shot.

    • J__o__h__n

      Pope Francis claims that atheists can go to heaven – it rains in Colorado – wrath of god?

      • Ed75

        According to Raymond Arroyo on The world over the pope was misquoted or misinterpereted. He said that ‘The mercy of God extends even to atheists … if they turn to God’ and that ‘even atheists are called to follow their consciences in that it is there that they have a sense of right and wrong, good and bad’. The media drew it’s own conclusion.

    • fun bobby

      he is the last pope according to prophecy. may you live in interesting times

      • Ed75

        Yes, St. Malachys was the Archbishop of Armagh, I think, around the year 1100. He wrote out a vision of the popes from his time to the end of the world. The two entries are ‘The Fruit of the Olive’ (The olive is the symbol of the Benedictine order), and ‘Peter the Roman’. Pope Francis’ speaking Italian and using simple Roman dress, and calling himself ‘Bishop of Rome’ is suggestive. The prophesy hasn’t been approved or disapproved by the Church, and there could be popes between the last two, but if it is true, Pope Francis is the first pope who could be the last pope.

        • fun bobby

          so it goes

  • Shag_Wevera

    Anyone else waiting for right wing religious zealots in Colorado to attribute the flooding to God’s retribution for the legalization of Marijuana?

    • fun bobby

      I would think it was because they were unable to recall every politician who had voted for gun control. God wants the tree of life to be legal

    • hennorama

      No, but that’s still funny.

  • Ray in VT

    American median income increased for the first time since the onset of the recession:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/22/us/politics/us-median-income-rises-but-is-still-6-below-its-2007-peak.html?_r=0

    • HonestDebate1

      That’s impressive.

    • fun bobby

      because the rich got so much richer it raised the average

      • Ray in VT

        It’s the median, not the average.

        • fun bobby

          median is a type of average. I heard sometime that the median wage is like $333,000

          • Ray in VT

            The median is the spot right in the middle. Half are above. Half are below. What those numbers are on either side don’t skew it.

          • fun bobby

            one needs to arrange all the values and pick the middle for a median. of course what values you input skew it

          • Ray in VT

            It’s the median from a survey. Are you suggesting that those numbers are incorrect, and if so, then upon what basis?

          • fun bobby

            I have not read the survey.

          • TFRX

            “Median is a type of average”?

            That’s the great thing about mathematics, FB: There’s no one right answer!

            Seriously, did you pull that line to your high-school math teacher, and what was the reply?

          • fun bobby

            yes mean median and mode are 3 types of averages

          • TFRX

            And someone said “median”, and you played (I hope) dumb.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          Perhaps with so many leaving the workforce and with labor participation at 1978 levels it has moved the median up a bit.

      • HonestDebate1

        It’s still 6% lower than it was in 2007. Whoopieeeee!

        • Ray in VT

          Huh, and 2007 was still below what it was at the end of the Clinton years. Whoopee.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            The title of your article claims 2007 was the peak.

          • Ray in VT

            I don’t think so.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            I shouldn’t have said ‘title’. Look at the URL.

          • Ray in VT

            True. I read the title, but not the URL, like most probably do.

          • HonestDebate1

            Median income averaged thousands of dollars higher under Bush than Clinton. This is despite the incredible tech bubble and historic improvements brought about by Clinton adopting most of the Contract with America, Bush inherited a recession and had to deal with 9/11 and two wars, median income was still higher.

            What’s your point?

          • Ray in VT

            My point is that Bush’s numbers don’t stack up to the end of Clinton’s term numbers. Why the excuse making for Bush? Shouldn’t a true conservative like him been able to wave his liberty wand and fix everything?

          • HonestDebate1

            As I said, median income was higher under Bush. That’s the way it’s supposed to work when the economy grows as Presidential terms ensue…. Or it used to be.

          • Ray in VT

            It’s a lot easier to have a higher average when one starts out with a higher number. Bush’s number is like bragging about winning a 100 yard dash when you start 10 yards out in front.

          • HonestDebate1

            Bush started with a recession. Clinton ended with a bubble.

            Whatever dude, it’s irrelevant now. The economy sucks and there is no hope for improvement with so many people out of work. The median income does not count the people making nothing and collecting welfare.

          • Ray in VT

            He did not start with a recession. And that recession ended in November of 2001, so why did median incomes continue to fall for 3 years after that?

            You say that Clinton ended with a bubble, yet hype the numbers up to 2007, when Bush was riding a much larger bubble that popped. So, why does Bush get a pass for those poor numbers during a much milder recession and Obama gets slammed for numbers from a much worse recession?

            The economy is doing better than it was. I’ll take that. Median income rose. I think that that is a very good sign, and please provide some evidence to support your claim regarding the methodology for the median income number. I have stated that I do not know how those factors figure in. If you “know”, then please enlighten me with a source.

          • HonestDebate1

            November 2001?! I don’t think so.

            I’ll take Clinton’s word for it.

            http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/chatterbox/2009/05/bill_clintons_classy_moment.html

            This is silly. If you want to judge Presidents in the vacuum of median income to distract form the horrible job Obama has done then have at it.

          • Ray in VT

            I was going by what the NBER said regarding the beginning and ending dates. Feel free to either take it up with them or just choose to not believe it.

            I’ll take Obama’s job over what I think that the GOP candidates would have done. One of the areas where I will get Bush credit is in responding to the recession. He could have sat back like a true boob and let everything go to hell, but he didn’t, and for that I thank him.

          • Ray in VT

            So how is it that for years under Bush the economy grew, as reflected in per capita income, yet median income fell? Wasn’t it supposed to trickle down?

  • Jon

    When all Colbert does is either swearing or screaming into a cooler, you know Putin really got under the Americans skin. Imagine you such up a moral lesson from you moral enemy. The ultimate irony is Putin is just like Constantine converting from Paganism (or Communism) masterfully to Christianity instantly turned the Seven Headed Monster (Roman empire or the Soviet evil empire) into the Global Force for Good. There goes the “Shining City upon the Hill”.

    • fun bobby

      the kremlin is pretty shiney

      • Jon

        admission of this defeat is only good for Americans – give Obama credit

        • fun bobby

          it was funny to hear a former head of the kgb speak of the pope and in such flowery religious terms

          • Jon

            a master who knows what faith and religion is all about, just like non-church-goer Reagan and atheist Lincoln

  • SteveTheTeacher

    I disagree with the negative assessment of pundits regarding President Obama’s decision to ask congress to vote on military action / war.

    Many in the US were opposed to military action / war in Syrian and expressed this opposition in numerous forums. Given the popular disapproval for military action, President Obama’s call for a congressional vote, and his decision to pursue diplomatic solution to the crisis, have strengthened democracy in the US.

    • thequietkid10

      Oh come on now, Secretary of State John Kerry just said that thirty days is too long for for Assad to turn over his stockpile, THIRTY DAYS, to turn over weapons he has had for decades!

      Look, Assad has zero incentive to delay any longer then he has to because if there is another chemical weapons attack (from his regime or a “false flag” style framing from the rebels) then we are going to come in and kick his ass.

      Which leads me to believe that Obama administration is still itching for a fight in Syria.

      At this point, I’m withholding judgement (and credit) to the Obama administration until it is clear we actually aren’t going to war.

      • fun bobby

        of course they are. this was a bs rush to war except this time reality and public outcry actually set in before they got to launch missiles

      • SteveTheTeacher

        And many of us will be out there mobilizing opposition to US military intervention. The next time, however, we’ll at least be able to point to one success.

      • Potter

        There is a legitimate argument and point of view that the threat of force is necessary to get some movement going and hopefully not only with regard to chemical weapons, but diplomatically, to resolve the conflict. The threat, it can be said, has produced this new development. We are threatening Russia too, indirectly. We are also challenging Russia(Putin) to be part of the solution, not the problem… (instead of lecturing us and arming Assad).

        But this game of chicken, though it may be necessary, is dangerous. The UN – a resolution is essential. That would be the first test for Russia (and China)

  • fun bobby

    we have devil Patrick up there on beacon hill today calling for yet more infringements on our already battered rights. what is wrong with that guy? does he even realize that the bear population is growing out of control due to a lack of hunters? we need to be repealing gun control laws in this state not piling more on our already beleaguered gun owners. I wish BUR would actually run a story on this.

    • adks12020

      The rifles and shotguns used by the vast majority of hunters are not affected by gun control legislation. I grew up in upstate New York where a huge number of people are hunters. None of them use weapons affected by gun control for hunting. They may use them for target shooting but not for hunting. Generally they are good enough marksmen that they can actually hit what they are shooting at the first time so having 10+ shots really isn’t necessary.

      • fun bobby

        you don’t know what you are talking about. its currently pistol bear season and its illegal to shoot bears in any season with a shotgun in MA. Pistols require a license in MA that can only be acquired if a unelected local bureaucrat deigns to grant one. that is not only stupid its unconstitutional and makes it more difficult for people to be able to shoot bears, which, as I said, are not being shot in great enough numbers to maintain a stable and healthy population. it has nothing to do with magazine size just like devil Patrick’s laws have nothing to do with magazine size or anything but trying to punish gun owners with stupid rules designed to make it look as if Patrick is “doing something” on gun control. more gun control in MA is beating a dead horse.

        • adks12020

          I can’t think of many places where pistols don’t require a license…although granted, I’m not a pistol guy…they aren’t useful for me. Also, I do know the law…According to the law you can shoot bears with other weapons “Hunting only with rifle .23 caliber or larger, muzzleloader .44–.775 caliber, bows with 40 lb. pull or greater, or revolvers .357 Magnum or .40 caliber or larger”…give one of those a shot… http://www.eregulations.com/massachusetts/huntingandfishing/black-bear/

          • fun bobby

            yes, you can shoot them with other things. we need to encourage more people to shoot them so we need to give them as many options as possible. I do not have any problem with pistols requiring a permit. I have a problem with the illegal, discriminatory, arbitrary way that these licenses are issued in the state of MA. I thought I made myself pretty clear.

  • atakemoto

    When businesses say they’ll have to cut jobs if wages go up, what they’re really saying is they won’t reduce earnings at the top to increase earnings at the bottom.

    • StilllHere

      What they’re saying is that they don’t think the revenues will come to offset the higher costs/prices. Businesses aren’t like the government, they can’t force their customers to pay more.

  • Coastghost

    If Kerry is not playing a game, why does it look as if Putin and Lavrov are playing him like a fiddle?

  • OnPointComments

    When President Obama said on Tuesday night “The situation profoundly changed, though, on August 21st, when Assad’s government gassed to death over a thousand people, including hundreds of children,” it is rumored that former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was heard to say “What difference, at this point, does it make?”

  • Coastghost

    Any guest aware of polling data since Tuesday: did Obama convert the American populace to his views concerning military intervention in Syria?

  • StilllHere

    Where’s the red line this week?

  • recliner70

    It is morally wrong to kill with chemcial weapons but the United State as the country who sells the most weaponry in the world we will keep selling bullets and guns to kill and maim on an individual episode.

    • StilllHere

      Krispy Kreme donuts take too long.

    • fun bobby

      meanwhile Americans here at home are suffering mightily under a ammo shortage and we have no relief in sight as munitions are shipped abroad. the bombs fighter jets and missiles we send abroad are capable of killing many, indiscriminately

  • hennorama

    For those who complain about their taxes going to help finance PBS and other public media – here’s a chance to get your money’s worth – the series EARTHFLIGHT.

    Here’s the Introduction to this truly amazing, jaw-dropping, and breathtaking series:

    “What would it be like to see the world from a bird’s perspective? To experience riding on the backs of bald eagles and snow geese or flying alongside a flock of brown pelicans as they scan and dive for fish in the ocean below. State-of-the-art technology and sophisticated camera techniques have now made it possible to do just that and more as EARTHFLIGHT, A Nature Special Presentation takes viewers on a breathtaking aerial adventure over six continents.

    “It took EARTHFLIGHT series producer John Downer and his team four years to film more than 100 bird species in 40 different countries. Using strategically placed cameras, including tiny HD cameras placed on the backs of trained birds, this six-part series captures amazing viewpoints that have never been seen before.”

    Two episodes have aired thus far – Episode One: North America, and Episode Two: Africa. Both are available for viewing on the PBS website (link below).

    One caveat – if you watch with children present, be aware that there are a number of predator/prey interactions depicted.

    http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/earthflight/introduction/8388/

    Enjoy!

    P.S.: Even those who don’t complain can watch.

    • Coastghost

      Your sense of topicality is arguably amiss at this hour, h.

      • hennorama

        Blame Canada.

        • jefe68

          Nah he’ll blame Obama.

          • hennorama

            HA! Good one, jefe68.

          • Ray in VT

            That’s what Brian Boytano’d do.

    • HonestDebate1

      If I want to pay to see it then Ill rent the DVD. How do I opt out if I don’t want to see or pay for it on PBS?

      • Ray in VT

        Stop earning money.

        • 1Brett1

          I guess this is part of that “free stuff” poor people get from Obama. Damn you, Obama!!!..I think someone was saying he and Big Bird were spotted getting drunk together in the Oval Office (of course, everybody knows Big Bird also has a coke habit…or is that Pepsi?!?)

          • HonestDebate1

            Nothing’s free. Taxpayers pay for everything the government hands out.

          • Ray in VT

            It’s just a shame that 47% something something, blah blah blah…

          • HonestDebate1

            Do you think it would be better if say 60% paid no income tax?

          • 1Brett1

            Thank you for enlightening us all with your vast knowledge of the inner-workings of government.

          • HonestDebate1

            You are most certainly welcome. It’s amazing how many people don’t realize that simple fact. Just look at how often libs pine for a “single-payer” healthcare system and if the government is a single payer. I do what I can.

          • 1Brett1

            Man, what a stand-up guy, and with such indefatigable energy to spread the word! Those e-cig devotees could learn a thing or two from you.

          • HonestDebate1

            Thank you.

          • 1Brett1

            I’m tellin’ ya, you could be an e-cig messiah. They are ripe for the picking.

          • HonestDebate1

            Wrong thread but I did give them some good advice and told some charming stories over there.

          • 1Brett1

            Oh, yeah, about you almost getting busted for pot? They must’ve really loved that. While they didn’t “like” that story, unlike your 11 “likes” for indirectly bashing people who do yoga, they probably felt a warm fuzzy about how you were also “caught” for smoking a cigarette (they like to commiserate with other smokers being persecuted) and whatnot.

          • HonestDebate1

            No, I wasn’t almost busted for pot… that time. I just thought so.

            Did I get 11 likes for the yoga thing? I love yoga! We have monthly Feldenkrais sessions in the loft too.

            Is the E-cig thing bugging you?

          • 1Brett1

            Do you huff burning incense when you do yoga? You must’ve been really pandering to those nic-heads if you were willing to poke at something you say you love ["I love yoga"].

          • HonestDebate1

            I love yoga and hate incense.

      • hennorama

        Debates Not, He – Renounce your U.S. citizenship, then vacate the country.

        Let me know if you need help packing, OK?

        • HonestDebate1

          That sweet but it’s not America.

          • hennorama

            Debates Not, He – since when is an implied offer of packing help “not America”?

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Do they film near the wind farms?

      Remember the ole Letterman skit “My Dog Bob”?
      Splat!!

      • hennorama

        WftC – wind farms were not depicted in the two episodes that have aired so far.

        If you’re interested in bird/machine interactions, this website depicts a few. The page is titled “A Brief History of Animals and Rocket Launches Not Getting Along.”

        See:
        http://gizmodo.com/a-brief-history-of-animals-and-rocket-launches-not-gett-1301141640

      • HonestDebate1

        Eagles are being slaughtered without fines or consequence of any kind.

    • Steve__T

      Thanks for the link.

      • hennorama

        Steve__T – You’re very welcome. It really is an amazing series.

  • William

    Jack – We still can’t identify the “good guys” and should stay out of this civil war.

    • StilllHere

      Jack knows who they are, all of them, he’s also taking Bama and the points.

  • hennorama

    The resemblance of Lakhdar Brahimi to Henry Kissinger In the photo at the top of the page is uncanny.

    • OnPointComments

      I’ve always thought that John Kerry looks like Frankenstein with a better haircut.

      • StilllHere

        A billion dollars can only do so much.

      • hennorama

        OPC – that’s now new. Many have compared Secretary Kerry’s visage to characters in two American TV shows from the mid-1960s – The Munsters and The Addams Family. See below.

        • J__o__h__n

          It looks like Herman’s botox worked better.

  • CindyC Barnard

    Your caller is missing the overall point – whatever the game, people are being bombed with chemical weapons, what can we do about it, not only as Americans, but as part of the human race?

    Second, it’s about who’s giving us this so-called diplomatic message. Russia has used brute force as its go-to option when it’s in their interest — and that we not strike on Syria is most definitely in Putin’s interest.

    • fun bobby

      send gas masks

  • MrNutso

    Uh oh, unknown knowns.

    • HonestDebate1

      Rumsfeld had a great quote about that.

  • TFRX

    “Pissing match”, says the caller.

    (Nothing to add, just want to know if that’s one of the dirty words in Disqus.)

    • hennorama

      TFRX – I know at least one such word, based on recent personal experience. It’s the one that’s supposed to be in the middle of this common phrase:

      Summa Plum Laude.

      • TFRX

        Heehee.

        (Seriously, I was gonna be Summa Plum Laude once, but a hailstorm ruined the crop.)

        • HonestDebate1

          P00p also gets it unless you use zeros.

          • TFRX

            Tom’s gonna have to cancel that show on new techniques in toilet* training, because according to the moderation wordlist, “Nobody p00ps”.

          • HonestDebate1

            True, I’ve also learned you can’t use the full phrase when describing one as _____ retentive.

          • TFRX

            Really?

            I guess that really cuts down on the psychology show topics available.

          • HonestDebate1

            Especially for a potty mouth like me.

        • hennorama

          Fargin’ iceholes[torm]!

          [EDIT/ADD]: Farging iceh[ailstorm]!

      • 1Brett1

        I laud[e] your comment (and tried the &um experiment; yep, I got an “awaiting moderation” status). What I am not quite getting is when that happens for no apparent reason. I save a copy now and often find nothing controversial. It also seems arbitrary/random that comments are then approved or not approved.

  • TFRX

    Okay, we’re talking about the budget and “defunding a passed law”.

    NPR guests, let’s talk about all the times that’s happened in the past.

    And, wow, doesn’t John Boehner suck at his job?

    • keltcrusader

      yes, yes he does

    • hennorama

      TFRX — Speaker Boehner has been largely overrun by the howling cats he’s trying to herd, so I have some sympathy. It has been entertaining to watch, however. My comment from January of this year still holds true:

      “The real entertainment will be from watching the action in the House. Speaker Boehner will have his hands full trying to herd the mewling cats there. Whether he can prevent them from using their claws to pop the [trial] balloons [currently being floated] remains to be seen.

      “Anyone have some catnip?”

      See:
      http://onpoint.wbur.org/2013/01/29/immigration-reform#comment-782058477

  • MrNutso

    Can anyone say “Blazing Saddles” ?

    • fun bobby

      is obama the sheriff?

    • Ray in VT

      Where the white ladies at?

      • MrNutso

        Would you do it for Randolph Scott?

        • Ray in VT

          Maaaaybe.

  • MrNutso

    Anyone with a 401K should watching carefully and be prepared to move everything to the safest investment possible. The looming government shut down and debt default will tank the stock market.

    • StilllHere

      Thanks, this is where I get all my investment advice.
      What powerball numbers are winners?

      • MrNutso

        What ever the machine spits out, until right after the drawing.

  • TFRX

    Now, a moment of silence for Ray Dolby.

    “I had to convince a lot of people who thought noise-reduction wasn’t possible and only promoted by charlatans.(paraphrase)”

    You know who else reduced noise? E. Howard Armstrong, inventor of FM.

    Glad to see Dolby got his due.

  • MrNutso

    Dolby brings me back to the days of my copying albums unto chrome and then metal cassettes using my trust CTF 1250 cassette deck.

    • fun bobby

      digital model nice!

  • MrNutso

    No Kristen, Benghazi is the number one issue.

  • Coastghost

    Obama focused? Obama? Focused? Do tell.

  • Coastghost

    Almost out of time to discuss the Colorado Senate recalls . . .

    • StilllHere

      The Denver Post quote above says all Tom thinks we need to know.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Hey Jack, were you crying chicken little during the numerous government shutdowns in the ’70s and ’80s?

    http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2011/04/08/6432513-this-would-be-18th-government-shutdown-in-us-history?lite

  • TFRX

    Guest Welkin called this a “divided government”.

    I point her to the record number of anonymous holds and lazy-ass, don’t-have-to-talk filibusters, and the ease at which the mainstream press has adopted without shock “well maybe the government will be shut down” and “passed laws don’t get funded until something else is given up so the USA won’t pay its debts”?

    Can we hear from an economist and someone who’s less in the Beltway about the tantrum-throwing right?

    • Kathy

      You don’t understand the media rules. False equivalence is the absolute number one commandment. This is the “thou shalt not kill” of media.

  • William

    Yes! All Day P-K will solve the wealth gap!!!!

  • OnPointComments

    It still amazes me that some think the solution to income inequality is to make those at the top poorer. I wonder if the next step in Obamacare will be to make the healthy sicker.

    • J__o__h__n

      They won’t be made poorer. They will be made less obscenely rich.

    • hennorama

      OPC – that gets a [Vote up] solely for wit.

    • Kathy

      Yeah, we had a radical experimentation with that and it produced the wealthiest greatest society on the planet in the 50s and 60s. It would be terrible to have to go back to that.

      • StilllHere

        We just need a world war with the rest of the industrialized world decimated. Obama, can ya here me now?

        • Ray in VT

          Some other countries seem to be doing all right without needing a world war. Are you saying that America can’t do it too? Why do you hate America, not thinking that we’re better than others and all.

        • fun bobby

          he is working on it

    • StilllHere

      This is the only way we can all be above average (or the median or mode.)

  • Gordon Green

    Progressive taxation is the cure for income distribution problems. Education might help, but there are plenty of examples of countries that have very highly educated populations but very high unemployment rates. It takes a wide distribution of income like we once had to create a resilient economy.

    • StilllHere

      Yes, the tail wags the dog.

  • nlpnt

    Why do rich conservatives always whine about “class warfare” when they see the remotest possibility that things might not go exactly their way?

    • TFRX

      Oh, if it were only the rich ones.

      Plenty of poor people have a fealty to the rich that would make feudal lords envious.

      • MrNutso

        It’s how Bush framed his tax cuts. You should want lower taxes for the rich, because you too could be fabulously wealthy.

        • StilllHere

          Taxes were cut for everybody. That’s why 50% don’t pay any taxes now.

          • Ray in VT

            50% don’t pay taxes. That’s news to me, and likely news to anyone who’s working.

          • StilllHere

            You must be a 1%er. You just don’t get it.

          • Ray in VT

            There’s plenty that I don’t get, including how people can make a claim like “50% don’t pay taxes” and think that it’s the naysayer that’s the dope.

          • StilllHere

            I didn’t say you were a dope. But your position of privilege affects your perspective in ways you may not appreciate. I’m here to help.

          • Ray in VT

            Please tell me, how do I not get it, and how am I privileged? I’m pretty aware of where I can from, how I got here and how that affects my outlook.

          • jefe68

            Step back, don’t feed the troll.

          • hennorama

            Ray in VT – And to anyone paying sales taxes, gasoline taxes, property taxes (either directly through real estate ownership or indirectly via their landlords), various fees, etc.

          • Ray in VT

            Of course. I was mostly referring to payroll taxes, but there’s plenty of those others too.

          • HonestDebate1

            It should not be called a tax. Paying into a program that pays you back is not taxation. I raked Rush over the coals for trying to make hay over Obama raising the payroll “tax”.

          • Ray in VT

            Well, then feel free to wage a war with the dictionary over the definitions.

          • HonestDebate1

            “I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes.” -candidate Obama 2008

          • Ray in VT

            I’m paying more now that I was in 2008. Damn you Obama!! Of course, I’ve also moved up in the brackets and I’m making about $15k more. Does that count as a broken promise?

          • HonestDebate1

            Your income has nothing to do with his broken promise.

          • Ray in VT

            To whom did he break that promise then?

          • StilllHere

            1%er, seriously, go back to your polo match and let us be.

          • Ray in VT

            I’m taxed too much to afford my polo horse anymore. Now I just pay some poor wretches to carry me about on a divan. It puts me at a disadvantage on the field, but I feel good knowing that those guys really earn their 10 dollars a day.

          • TFRX

            Divan?

            If you weren’t such a poseur, you’d know that you’re referring to a sedan chair!

            (Highly recommended: The race scene in Terry Jones’ “Jabberwockey”.)

          • Ray in VT

            I haven’t seen that, but the term did make me think of Hedonismbot. Damn you Futurama for ending!

          • HonestDebate1

            You’re a job creator, God bless you.

          • Ray in VT

            If only the evil government would let me pay them less. #gottadream.

          • HonestDebate1

            A job’s a job and they are willing. Do you chain them in the basement so they can’t quit?

          • Ray in VT

            Only when they get uppity. #righttowork.

          • HonestDebate1

            Then I take it back, you’re a monster.

          • Ray in VT

            Only because big government has redefined the work laws. There was a time in the good old days when I could treat my workers however I wanted. Damn the government and damn the unions!

          • HonestDebate1

            I never knew the government let you chain people in the basement and thereby chain them to their job. I just thought they used to let you hire anyone who was willing to work for whatever wage they agreed to. It’s crazy, I know.

          • Ray in VT

            Yeah, back in the good old days before it freed our property, tried to make us stop putting dangerous chemicals in our food, provide unsafe working conditions and pay starvation wages. But at least in recent years I’ve been able to save money by paying a minimum wage that’s worth less and less so that I can continue to pocket more and more.

          • HonestDebate1

            Alrighty then.

          • Ray in VT

            Plus they don’t let me fire people any more if I figure out that they’re Jews or part negro. At least I can still get rid of the homersexuals, unless someone wants to rob me of that liberty too.

          • HonestDebate1
          • Ray in VT

            That show did run for another four or five years, you know. Also, I thought that you wanted the freedom to be able to fire someone for being gay? Are you now opposed?

          • HonestDebate1

            Did i ever say that? I have a gay employee. I am sometimes employed by a gay vocalist, she’s a very dear friend as is her partner.

            The closest I recall going there is regarding Romney’s comment about being to be able to fire people. It was quickly bastardized and flipped on it’s head to claim he said he likes to fire people. I commented imagining a world where we were not able to fire people which would be a sick place.

            No, I don’t want to fire people because they are gay. I could see not hiring them in the first place in some settings but even then it’s about competence and behavior not sexuality. If I had a business to help teach men how to woo, bed and satisfy women then I’d probably not hire a gay guy. I oppose the guy who sued Hooters because they wouldn’t hire him. You know, that sort of thing.

          • Ray in VT

            “We have a gay guy working for us feeding horses. We hired him about 6 months ago. He’s great, the moms love him. I won’t say he’s a flamer but he is very festive. If he were to express his sexuality in an overt manner we would fire him”

            http://onpoint.wbur.org/2013/04/30/jason-collins

          • HonestDebate1

            I want the freedom to fire someone for being overtly sexual around kids. I don’t care if they are gay or not.

            When you quote someone and end the quote mid sentence then you should use ellipses. Otherwise it looks like you are being dishonest. Here’s the complete quote:

            “We have a gay guy working for us feeding horses. We hired him about 6 months ago. He’s great, the moms love him. I won’t say he’s a flamer but he is very festive. If he were to express his sexuality in an overt manner we would fire him just like we did the girl who refused to wear a bra or keep her suggestive tattoo covered.

          • Ray in VT

            I think that it is pretty funny that you should think that you have any ground to stand on regarding quoting someone given the tactics that you employ. Is it only right when you do it?

            You did not say “being overtly sexual around kids”. So, is being gay like wearing a bra or having a tatoo?

          • HonestDebate1

            I do honest debate not tactics.

            Here’s the entire paragraph with highlights (speaking of dishonest tactics):

            “We have a gay guy working for us feeding horses. We hired him about 6 months ago. He’s great, the moms love him. I won’t say he’s a flamer but he is very festive. If he were to express his sexuality in an overt manner we would fire him just like we did the girl who refused to wear a bra or keep her suggestive tattoo covered.”

            Obviously that’s not good business and you already know we have lots of kids here. No being gay is not like wearing a bra or having a tattoo. I have no problem with tattoos or gay people. He still works here and his tattoo is just a horseshoe on his shoulder.

          • Ray in VT

            No, you do dishonest debate using tactics.

            What did I get wrong? I quoted you verbatim. I am merely seeking to learn the lessons of history. One cannot hope to win a contest with an opponent who doesn’t play by the rules. I am merely adjusting my tactics to reflect the realities of your “debate” style.

            Would you fire a heterosexual for being “overtly sexual”, and please define what that means.

          • jefe68

            You fired someone for having a tattoo at a horse farm?
            You should go see a proctologist to get that stick removed.

          • HonestDebate1

            No we didn’t fire her because she had a tattoo.

          • jefe68

            Did he really write “he is very festive”?
            Oy vey.

          • Ray in VT

            As long as he isn’t FABULOUS!

          • jefe68

            I don’t know, a gay guy could should those “bros” how to dress smart, and how to treat woman well.

          • jefe68

            So you’re ignorant of the convict leasing schemes in the South after the Civil war well into the 1940′s?

            I have friends who’s grandmother was an orphan and she was chained up to sewing machine in the 40′s. She escaped from that horror show. It was common to use orphans as free labor well into the 50′s.

            How can one be so ignorant of labor history is beyond me.

          • HonestDebate1

            Was that legal?

          • jefe68

            The orphan schemes were common and while illegal there was no enforcement.

            The convict leasing was legal on the state level. Went on for almost a hundred years in some states.

          • fun bobby

            we still use prison labor today in america

          • hennorama

            Ray in VT — shouldn’t that be “gittyuppity,” given the task performed by the “poor wretches”?

          • Ray in VT

            Nay.

          • hennorama

            Hey!

            [EDIT]: Heigh!

          • StilllHere

            I hate it when you use the guy’s own words against. That is unfair!

          • hennorama

            Debates Not, He — allow me to quote you again, and simultaneously inform you about the newest selection in the Gregg Smith Response-O-Matic:

            [Did you have a point?]

          • Ray in VT

            You can’t be serious?

          • hennorama

            Easy there, Mr. McEnroe.

          • Ray in VT

            That’s sick.

          • HonestDebate1

            Yes, Obama is a liar and raised everyone’s taxes. How did you miss it?

          • StilllHere

            Apparently some people need to be reminded.

          • Ray in VT

            When did he raise my taxes?

          • HonestDebate1

            Obamacare for one. Do you use tanning booths?

          • Ray in VT

            Where is that line on my taxes or in my paycheck?

          • hennorama

            Debates Not, He — please allow another quotation:

            “That’s a bunch of malarkey!” – VP Joe Biden.

            You really are getting the hang of comic relief.

            Please present your evidence, and show how “everyone’s taxes” have been raised since “candidate Obama” spoke those words in 2008.

            Please don’t forget to show how “everyone,” including those with zero income, are paying higher taxes today.

            This should be amusing.

          • HonestDebate1

            It’s very confusing, I don’t know what words mean anymore given the comments in this thread. I don’t like the term payroll tax but folks hear swear its a tax. I prefer to call it the acceleration of the bankruptcy of Social Security but you know me. Anywho, it was raised. BTW feel free to say the cut expired or something. The “tax” went up. Obama said they would not when he “spoke those words”. He also said Cap Gains would not go up.

            And then there is the confusion of Obamacare. He got very testy with Stephie for calling it a tax but he argued to the SCOTUS it was. Lo and behold they agreed, a tax on everyone it is.

          • Ray in VT

            So, is my payroll tax rate higher now than it was in 2008?

          • HonestDebate1

            No, but your chance of not seeing a return is.

          • Ray in VT

            So he hasn’t raised my payroll taxes?

          • HonestDebate1

            If we call it a tax then yes he raised them. Are you using the same logic as saying he cut the deficit in half after first quadrupling it?

          • Ray in VT

            How is my payroll tax higher now than it was in 2008?

            Also, take a look at when that deficit boomed. It wasn’t when Obama was President.

          • HonestDebate1

            2008? It’s higher that it was last year.

          • Ray in VT

            My payroll taxes?

          • HonestDebate1

            Yes.

          • Ray in VT

            So allowing my payroll taxes return to the same level that they were when he took office breaks a promise that he made before he took office?

          • HonestDebate1

            Yes, but that was hardly the only tax he raised thereby breaking his promise. Throw it out if you want.

          • Ray in VT

            So he has not raised my payroll taxes? For whom has he raised income taxes?

          • HonestDebate1

            No, I said yes. It’s just that my point does not depend on it. The the top bracket’s are the only ones who got their income taxes raised. Everyone got a hike from Obama care. He pledged he would not raise cap gains, he did. He raised the cigarette tax but he said “not any of your taxes”. He was fighting like hell to raise the Death tax, I’m not sure if he was successful. And on and on. He’s a taxer.

          • Ray in VT

            So he has raised my payroll taxes? Can you please make up your mind?

            How have my taxes gone up from the ACA? Please tell me where I can see that as reflected in my tax bill.

            Alright, at least you found something regarding the tax on cigarettes. Don’t forget the tanning beds too.

            For whom did the capital gains tax go up? I’ve never heard of a tax on dying. Please point to where it is in the tax code so that I can try to find a way to not die.

          • HonestDebate1

            He made the law and refuses by decree to implement it. How many time must I say it? It’s not on the form yet but here’s a sample:

            http://www.atr.org/irs-tax-form-obamacare-individual-mandate-a7274

            I already asked you if you use tanning booths. He raised your payroll tax because it went up. Even if you make the argument he didn’t, he did by default because your return has to be less. Doesn’t it pay for Medicare too which he gutted? Again, my only ambivalence is calling it a tax at all. Capital gains taxes went up for everyone to the best of my knowledge. Yes, dying is expensive. Give your stuff to your kids before you die.

          • Ray in VT

            So he did raise my payroll tax? But it is the same today as when he told me that he wouldn’t raise my taxes, so how has he raised my taxes?

            Capital gains went up for people in the highest tax bracket (35%) which starts at $388,351 for single filers, so that isn’t quite for everyone.

            Dying is cheap. Inheriting millions just costs you a bit.

          • Steve__T

            I throw the ball to who.
            Whoever it is drops the ball and the guy runs to second. Who picks up
            the ball and throws it to What. What throws it to I Don’t Know. I Don’t
            Know throws it back to Tomorrow, Triple play. Another guy gets up and
            hits a long fly ball to Because. Why? I don’t know! He’s on third and I
            don’t give a darn!

            Oh, that’s our shortstop.

          • Steve__T

            Look, if I throw the ball to first base, somebody’s gotta get it. Now who has it?

            Naturally.

          • Steve__T

            Who’s on first

          • Steve__T

            Now who’s got it?

          • Steve__T

            Third base

          • Ray in VT

            Are you a baseball fan, Steve? Did you actually see where there was a guy named Hu who got on first?

          • Ray in VT

            I still haven’t figured out if Obama raised my payroll taxes.

          • Steve__T

            I don’t know?

          • Steve__T

            What’s on second.

          • Steve__T

            Who’s on first.

          • jefe68

            I know, it hurts to think.
            It’s called the Federal Insurance Contributions Act (FICA) tax.

          • HonestDebate1

            I’m aware of the title. I disagree with you and Rush on that one.

          • jefe68

            One small problem there, it’s still a tax despite what you believe.

            Maybe this will help:
            Tax: a compulsory contribution to state revenue, levied by the government on workers’ income and business profits or added to the cost of some goods, services, and transactions.

          • HonestDebate1

            You are entitled to your opinion.

          • jefe68

            It’s not an opinion, it’s a definition.
            Are you just playing at being this stupid?

          • Steve__T

            No he admits it, he is stupid.

          • J__o__h__n

            You are blaming Obama for raising the payroll tax he wanted to extend for another year? The Republicans wouldn’t extend it. It was first tax cut they ever opposed. Just like intervening in Syria was the first military action they opposed. Don’t forget the Heritage Foundation and Mitt Romney’s health care plan.

          • Ray in VT

            Plus having that widowed lesbian pay the inheritance tax was the only tax that they wanted someone to have to pay.

          • J__o__h__n

            Thanks, I knew I forgot something. But they call it the death tax.

          • HonestDebate1

            Didn’t it go up too?

          • HonestDebate1

            I said it was confusing but to reiterate I raked Rush over the coals for blaming Obama for the hike. Now if you want to talk about the timing of the holiday, the planning of the expiration and the politics surrounding all of it then that’s different.

          • hennorama

            Debates Not, He — please go on about your evidence.

            Oh wait — you haven’t presented a single shred.

            Repeating:

            Please present your evidence, and show how “everyone’s taxes” have been raised since “candidate Obama” spoke those words in 2008.

            Please don’t forget to show how “everyone,” including those with zero income, are paying higher taxes today.

          • HonestDebate1

            I already did and I could expand but my answer was sufficient. Take it up with John Roberts.

          • hennorama

            Debates Not, He — Please withdraw your inaccurate comment – “Obama is a liar and raised everyone’s taxes” – until and unless you can provide any ACTUAL evidence comparing the facts of “everyone’s taxes” in 2008 and the facts of “everyone’s taxes” in 2013.

          • HonestDebate1

            No. Obamacare is a tax on every American.

          • hennorama

            1DishonestPontificator — so much for “honest debate.”

          • Ray in VT

            Where is every American paying that tax. I don’t see it on any form that I have filled out or submitted these past several years.

          • HonestDebate1

            He keeps delaying the implementation by decree but it’s written into law. He did that. But good point, he has no authority to rewrite the law willy nilly so maybe the next President can just say it’s repealed and the taxes he raised will be unraised. I think the tens of thousands of IRS agents to enforce it have been hired.

          • Ray in VT

            Well, it’s a good thing that the administration used a section of the CFR that has been used in other instances in order to delay the implementations of regulations.

          • HonestDebate1

            There have been something like 19 different provisions delayed. Don’t worry, it’s just to keep the economy from totally imploding so he can get the House back. After 2014 it full steam ahead. Kiss your country good-by.

          • Ray in VT

            Kiss the country goodbye? Why? Is that TEA Party take over that you’ve been talking about for years finally going to happen?

          • HonestDebate1

            Actually, it may already be too late. The debt is now impossible to ever pay back for one thing. Obamacare is probably too far entrenched to be reversed unless Obama keeps up his decree thing. We are quickly approaching the point where more people are paying no income tax than those who are. That’s an electoral game-changer. And don’t even get me started on the Islamic Caliphate which is going along quite swimmingly. The House in 2104 would just be the final nail in the coffin.

          • Ray in VT

            Good ones all around. This stuff is way worse then when we faced a major rebellion, the Axis powers or the Communist Bloc during the Cold War. Despair! Despair!

            I hear that Costa Rica is nice if you’re looking for a place to wait out the apocalypse.

          • HonestDebate1

            No way, I have a friend who is doing just that. He bought property and the House is almost done but now he’s rethinking. Costa Rica is a nightmare. I’ve got land, water, guns and horse meat. I’ll be fine.

          • Ray in VT

            That won’t stop the Islamic Caliphate. They’ll light the way past your defenses using our lax guns laws and the lights from their Obamaphones. The end is neigh!

          • jefe68

            He better head for them hills, pronto.

          • Ray in VT

            But there’s 300,000 Russians in them thar hills. They’re there to enforce Obamacare or something.

          • fun bobby

            ray, only vt has lax gun laws

          • jefe68

            You forgot ammo.

          • fun bobby

            you beat me to it

          • fun bobby

            yes, but we faced those things with our rights intact.

          • jefe68

            Lets see according to these last few posts the end is neigh because we have the longest running ammo shortage in memory and the ACA is going to cause the collapse of our nation as we know it. Oh and then there is the Islamic Caliphate.
            Forgot about the Spanish Inquisition though.

          • Ray in VT

            Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

          • fun bobby

            not to mention the longest running most severe ammo shortage in memory

          • hennorama

            1DishonestPontificator — please see (again):

            - Biden, Joe
            - Malarkey, bunch of

          • J__o__h__n

            Roberts should have ruled it constitutional under the commerce clause. He only claimed it was allowed under the power to tax so he could gut it.

          • HonestDebate1

            He ruled what he ruled. The commerce clause regarding the mandate was severely unconstitutional. He did what he had to do.

          • hennorama

            1DishonestPontificator – Consider this yet another Consistency Challenge, and another thrown gauntlet:

            Please address the first three words in the 2nd sentence of the quotation – “Under my plan…” which of course refer to then-Senator Obama’s tax plan as presented and discussed during the 2008 election campaign.

            Please show the elements of THAT plan, and also where THAT plan said anything like “Under no circumstances will a family making less than $250,000 a year EVER see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes,” which is what you have implied by writing “Obama is a liar and raised everyone’s taxes.”

            If you can indeed demonstrate how “everyone’s taxes” have been raised under candidate Obama’s 2008 campaign tax plan, please also conform to your definition of lying, which as you say, requires both intent and knowledge.

            You have repeatedly written “It is impossible to lie if you don’t know you are lying,” have you not?

            I look forward to your response.

          • HonestDebate1

            Are you saying he was lying about his tax plan? I agree.

          • fun bobby

            whatever happened with this plan?

            President Obama responsibly ended the war in Iraq and will end the war in Afghanistan in 2014—now is the time to rebuild America. The President’s plan uses half the money we’re no longer spending on war to put Americans back to work rebuilding road, bridges, runways and schools here at home and uses the other half to help pay down the debt.

          • hennorama

            1DishonestPontificator – No.

            What I have written about your comments can be condensed into yet another quotation, one with which you are no doubt familiar:

            “You lie!”
            –Addison Graves “Joe” Wilson, Sr., Congressional Representative

          • HonestDebate1

            I never lie.

            I’ll try again, let me see if I understand your logic.You seem to be saying candidate Obama’s tax plan never materialized so his pledge is negated. Is that it? Wow.

            First, I gave you the quote. It did not contain the words ever or under no consequences. Is that your loophole? You also put words in my mouth, I did not say everyone’s taxes got raised under the candidates plan. I said Obama raised taxes on everyone. Candidate Obama was swearing Obamacare was not a tax.

            He made a “firm pledge”. I know he didn’t pass a budget, I don’t know if he ever passed a tax plan. Why would he promise a plan that Democrats would not support? He didn’t raise the top bracket either. Why?

            I’m sure you agree it’s impossible to lie without the intent to deceive. So if your argument is he did not lie because he did not know the Democrats would not support his tax plan, I suppose I can’t prove he lied. He could have been just stupid. Point taken.

            However, even if he did not lie then he is still a liar. I documented around 70 the other day.

          • hennorama

            1DishonestPontificator – let’s review.

            You posted a quote from “candidate Obama 2008.”
            I asked if you had a point.
            You wrote “Yes, Obama is a liar and raised everyone’s taxes.”
            I asked you to “Please present your evidence, and show how “everyone’s taxes” have been raised since “candidate Obama” spoke those words in 2008.”
            You indicated your confusion and wrote about payroll tax, Cap Gains, and that SCOTUS “…agreed, a tax on everyone it is.”
            I repeated my polite request that you provide evidence.
            You refused.
            I requested that you withdraw your “Obama is a liar and raised everyone’s taxes” comment until and unless you provided ACTUAL evidence.
            You refused, and claimed without any evidence, that “Obamacare is a tax on every American.”
            I chided you about your refusal, writing “so much for ‘honest debate.’ ”
            I issued you a Consistency Challenge, to address these three words from “candidate Obama 2008” – “Under my plan…” and to “please also conform to your definition of lying, which as you say, requires both intent and knowledge.”
            You asked a question – “Are you saying he [candidate Obama] was lying about his tax plan?”
            I summed up my view of your commentary and claims by quoting Joe “You Lie!” Wilson.

            To be clear:

            You presented a quotation that then-Sen. Obama made in 2008. You then wrote “Obama is a liar and raised everyone’s taxes” but present no evidence. When challenged by myself and others, you deflected. You wrote about Obamacare and tanning booths, which clearly do not impact “everyone’s taxes.” You wrote about payroll taxes which not only do not impact “everyone’s taxes,” but are also not “raised” when compared to 2008, the year of your quotation.

            When challenged to conform to your own standard about lying, you concede that you “can’t prove he [candidate Obama] lied” yet stubbornly refuse to withdraw your comment.

            Here’s the case that by your very own standards, YOU lied, sir:

            You have previously discussed that many U.S. residents pay no Federal Income Tax. This means that you knew already that “everyone’s taxes” have not been and will not be raised.

            Despite this knowledge, you wrote “Obama is a liar and raised everyone’s taxes,” and just now wrote “I said Obama raised taxes on everyone.” Therefore, since you had prior knowledge, by your own standard these are lies.

            Now you concede that you “can’t prove he [candidate Obama] lied.” This makes your claim “Obama is a liar and raised everyone’s taxes” also a lie, by your own standards.

            Realizing this, you now try to squirm out of your lie, by writing “However, even if he did not lie then he is still a liar.”

            Please look up the following word, which you have thrown around:

            disingenuous

            You might also want to address the first sentence in your response – “I never lie.” There is a fine line between honest belief and self-delusion. You may want to get a professional’s opinion as to which side of the line you are on.

            DISCLAIMER: I am not a health care professional and any advice offered or concern expressed should not be interpreted as medical advice.

          • HonestDebate1

            I was there, no need to rehash it.

            “Now you concede that you “can’t prove he [candidate Obama] lied.” This makes your claim “Obama is a liar and raised everyone’s taxes” also a lie, by your own standards.”

            Nosiree, those are your bizarre conflating standards. I understand the difference between noun and a verb. All I admitted is Obama may have been too stupid to realize his tax plan stood no chance. A liar (noun) doesn’t always lie (verb). He certainly has a long enough track record to be labeled a liar.

            BTW, Obamacare is a tax on everyone. How do you not know that? This isn’t some fringe conspiracy theory. Don’t you remember Robert’s ruling?

            “The Affordable Care Act is constitutional in part and unconstitutional in part. The individual mandate cannot be upheld as an exercise of Congress’s power under the Commerce Clause,” Roberts wrote. “That Clause authorizes Congress to regulate interstate commerce, not to order individuals to engage it. In this case, however, it is reasonable to construe what Congress has done as increasing taxes on those who have a certain amount of income, but choose to go without health insurance. Such legislation is within Congress’s power to tax.”

            And then there’s this:

            http://www.atr.org/comprehensive-list-tax-hikes-obamacare-a5758

          • hennorama

            1DishonestPontificator – thank you for your response.

            Thank you also for disproving your own point, and thereby proving your lie.

            Allow me to quote your very own words, and then from the quote you now cited:

            YOU:

            “Obama is a liar and raised everyone’s taxes.”
            “I said Obama raised taxes on everyone.”
            “Obamacare is a tax on every American.”
            “BTW, Obamacare is a tax on everyone.”

            From “Robert’s ruling”:

            “In this case, however, it is reasonable to construe what Congress has done as increasing taxes on those who have a certain amount of income, but choose to go without health insurance.”

            Please point out the words “everyone” or “every American” in what you described as “Robert’s ruling.”

            ALSO:

            From the linked article, with EMPHASIS added:

            “Individual Mandate Excise Tax(Jan 2014) … “EXEMPTIONS FOR religious objectors, undocumented immigrants, prisoners, those earning less than the poverty line, members of Indian tribes, and hardship cases (determined by HHS)”

            “Surtax on Investment Income ($123 billion/Jan. 2013): This increase involves the creation of a new, 3.8 percent surtax on investment income earned in HOUSEHOLDS MAKING AT LEAST $250,000 ($200,000 single)”

            “Raise “Haircut” for Medical Itemized Deduction from 7.5% to 10% of AGI($15.2 bil/Jan 2013): Currently, those facing high medical expenses are allowed a deduction for medical expenses to the extent that those expenses exceed 7.5 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI). The new provision imposes a threshold of 10 percent of AGI; it is WAIVED FOR 65+ taxpayers in 2013-2016 only.”

            “Tax on Health Insurers($60.1 bil/Jan 2014): Annual tax on the industry imposed relative to health insurance premiums collected that year. The stipulation PHASES IN gradually until 2018, and is FULLY-IMPOSED ON FIRMS WITH $50 MILLION IN PROFITS.”

            You can squirm and disingenuously deny that your words “Obama is a liar and raised everyone’s taxes” were not meant to convey “Obama lied about not raising everyone’s taxes” all you want. Your squirming denial merely serves as further proof of the lie of your current moniker, and that you are not in any way concerned about “honest debate.”

            Please allow another polite request. Please confirm or deny the interpretation of your words “Obama is a liar and raised everyone’s taxes” above. If you deny the validity of my interpretation, please then explain exactly what you meant when you wrote those words.

            Thank you again for disproving your own point, and thereby proving your lie.

          • HonestDebate1

            Perhaps I should break it up, pleas read slowly.

            Obama raised taxes on everyone.

            Obama is a liar.

          • hennorama

            Debates Not, He – you needn’t be plaintive. As to your statements:

            1. Laughably false.
            2. Merely opinion.

          • HonestDebate1

            So are you saying those with zero income did not get a tax hike? FAIL, they did. That one is easy, If they have zero income then they obviously cannot afford health insurance so they will be taxed (formerly known as fined).

            Yea, it’s my opinion that when is documented to have lied 70 or so times then they are a liar. That of course is an underestimate, I’ve seen some list over 250 long but to be fair they also included time Obama broke the law which isn’t really a lie…. unless you consider his oath.

            Are you claiming he never lies? Or that it’s occasional enough not to consider him a liar?

          • hennorama

            Debates Not, He – thank you for your commentary.

            Despite the fact that your question is unrelated to my post, please allow me to comment. It is difficult to decide which is more boundless: your breathtaking ignorance or your mewling stubbornness. I’m leaning toward “ your breathtaking ignorance” but it’s a close call.

            You might want to check out the facts about Obamacare and those with zero income. You might start here: https://www.healthcare.gov/ .

            As to your “…opinion that when is documented to have lied 70 or so times then they are a liar.” First, thank you for conceding that your statement “Obama is a liar” is indeed merely your OPINION. As to your reference to the “70 or so times” related to your link to politifact.com, as you have written “not all false statement[s] are lies…There must be an intent to deceive.”

            The majority of the “false facts” on politifact.com are minor misstatements, mistakes, etc. One can also characterize many of them as one of your favorite things – splitting hairs.

            For example, they rate the following as FALSE:

            “If the House of Representatives fails to extend the middle-class tax cuts, 400,000 middle-class Rhode Island families will see their federal income taxes increase.”

            Politifact adds the comment “It’s households, not families.”

            WOW! What a WHOPPER!

            Please.

            And they also rate “”We’ve excluded lobbyists from policymaking jobs” as FALSE, with the comment “We found at least four.”

            OMG, the world is going to spin off its axis!

            Please.

            If that’s your case, you DEFINITELY should stick to foaling ungulates.

            See:
            http://www.politifact.com/personalities/barack-obama/statements/byruling/false/?page=1

          • HonestDebate1

            How many lies must one tell before, in your opinion, the liar label fits. 50? 40? 30? I am not aware of any definition that give s a number. Of course it’s an opinion. Is one big one like Benghazi enough? When a Supreme court justice renders his verdict of a lie, is that enough?

            Obama is a liar.

            If you don’t pay the Obamacare tax, you will ultimately be put in jail. But he raised all kinds of taxes. His pledge was a lie. If you want to just call it a broken promise as Politifact did then do that, but you won’t despite the evidence. You’ll parse and defend. That’t what you do.

          • hennorama

            Debates Not, He – thank you again for your hilarity.

            The issue of your breathtaking ignorance vs. your mewling stubbornness is still too close to call. Maybe your next comment will tip the scale.

          • HonestDebate1

            Agan, I have to ask, why do you write a book quoting me? I know what I said. I know what the link I posted said. I stand by al of it. If you have a point then make it, what is the point of rewriting everything I’ve already written and expecting me to divine said point?

            You are all over the place, it’s like nailing jello to the wall. I gave a link of 67 falsehoods documented by politifact, most of them lies. We know Obama was lying about the video 2 weeks after he knew it was a terrorist attack. We know from Alito Obama lied when he said the SCOTUS overturned 100 years of precedent. We know he was lying when Joe Wilson called him out. He is a liar. That is unarguable.

            And to the particular lie from candidate Obama, what’s so hard to understand? I was throwing you a bone. You were trying to torturously parse his pledge to say he was talking about “THAT” plan and since “THAT” plan was not enacted his pledge was negated. Further since he had no way of knowing “THAT” plan would not be enacted, he was not lying, As you well know, it’s impossible to lie without knowing you are lying. I stretched credulity and held out the possibility that he was just stupid to agree with you. I was being nice but my claim still stood just as strong. In reality he did not say “THAT” plan, he said “my plan”. Here’s a clue, he’s President. Any plan he signs is his plan. It was a broken promise. I say he lied.

            http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/515/no-family-making-less-250000-will-see-any-form-tax/http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/515/no-family-making-less-250000-will-see-any-form-tax/

            He raised cap gains, that affects everyone. You don’t have to be rich to have capital gains. Do you consider the payroll tax to be a tax? If you don’t have health insurance you will be taxed. It is not a fine as the SCOTUS ruled. If you do have health insurance it will be taxed in several areas. Everybody got a tax increase. No doubt about it.

            Who do you claim is not getting a tax hike?

          • hennorama

            DishonestPontificating1 –

            By way of an answer – perhaps you have heard of the term “using your own words to impeach your credibility.” If not, you might want to consult some reference materials.

            Simplifying for the simple:

            Your claims that “Obamacare is a tax on every American” and “BTW, Obamacare is a tax on everyone”

            are disproved by YOUR OWN SOURCE – the so-called “Robert’s ruling,” which says NOTHING AT ALL about “everyone” or “every American.”

            Your claims that “Obama is a liar and raised everyone’s taxes” and “I said Obama raised taxes on everyone” are also completely, utterly, and absolutely false.

            Hope that helps.

            Thank you again for disproving your own point, and thereby proving your lie.

            That you cannot understand facts is your issue, not mine sir.

            You have written “I don’t post anything without verifying.” Please see (again) Biden, Joe and Malarkey, bunch of.

            For starters, you might want to verify your statement “He raised cap gains, that affects everyone.” Then verify your statement “If you don’t have health insurance you will be taxed.” And you DEFINTELY need to verify your statement “Everybody got a tax increase.”

            Wrong, as usual.

            By way of an answer to your question “Who do you claim is not getting a tax hike?” – to name just a few, the answer is implicit in this polite request, which has now been posed to you thrice:

            Please don’t forget to show how “everyone,” including those with zero income, are paying higher taxes today.

          • fun bobby

            he did not say anything about your obomacare tax or fee or penalty? im not sure what it is but its gonna cost plenty

          • pete18

            Yes you’re right, I think it’s 51%. Federal income tax (not counting Social Security and Medicare).

      • pete18

        Oh course the other option is that they have
        an actual understanding of what the word “fairness” means.

  • Coastghost

    I hear Tom Ashbrook steering completely away from the “Tale of Two Colorados”.

    • StilllHere

      It doesn’t comport with his static worldview.

  • OnPointComments

    If Debbie Wasserman-Schultz wasn’t in the Congress, she’d be in an insane asylum, not that there’s much difference between the two places.

    DWS: COLORADO SENATORS WERE ONLY RECALLED BECAUSE OF VOTER SUPPRESSION, OR SOMETHING

    http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2013/09/11/dws-colorado-senators-were-only-recalled-because-of-voter-suppression-or-something-n1697513

    I wonder how long it will be before Democratic voters rebel over Democratic leaders constantly saying that Democratic voters are too stupid to figure out how to vote.

    • StilllHere

      It’d be easier if the government voted for them.

    • HonestDebate1

      That’s a great point. It’s hard to believe they wear it as a badge of honor. They also seem to believe blacks are particularly stupid in regards to voting.

  • MrNutso

    The takeaway from the Colorado recall is that we need to change from representative government to direct democracy. Let the people vote on every issue.

    • J__o__h__n

      Recalls should only be to eject people who are unfit to serve.

      • TFRX

        But if we’ve learned anything from the Hunting of the Clenis, “unfit to serve” for one wing of govt means “we have the votes”.

        See Gray Davis, too.

      • MrNutso

        That’s true, but in the minds of those that start the recalls, the person in question is unfit to serve, because they do not hew to the petitioners ideology.

      • fun bobby

        like the ones in colorado

  • thequietkid10

    The 1% pay 33 percent of all taxes, the top 50% pay almost all taxes. Putting aside the ethical question of asking these people to pay more. Is raising taxes on wealthy even going to work?

    • StilllHere

      Work? If the goal is to make more dependent on the government, then yes. [Only those dependent on the government would vote this down.]

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Of course it won’t work. The only solution is to grow the economy — which means removing the over-regulation impediments to growth

      • StilllHere

        That’s radical. It’d be easier to have the government shrink the economy.

    • TomK_in_Boston

      It’s a dishonest debate tactic to talk about how much tax the oligarchs pay with no mention of how much of the income they have. Their tax RATE is what matters and it is near a historic low. Anyone who doesn’t realize that the rich are massively UNDER taxed is ignorant or brainwashed.

      http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/US_high-income_effective_tax_rates.png

      corporate taxes are also way down but the class warriors still want more cuts

      http://nationalpriorities.org/media/uploads/historical_charts_-_individual_and_corporate_taxes_line_1934_to_2014_big.png

      The income share of the 1% is at roaring 20s levels. They can pay more with absolutely no strain.

      http://www.cbpp.org/images/cms//10-21-10inc-f2.jpg

      • pete18

        Still working on the “envy” economy, aren’t you?

        • TomK_in_Boston

          Yup, me and Warren Buffet and Bill Gates are envious of losers like you when we advocate for a middle class society.

          • jefe68

            The are pathetic, that’s for sure.

          • pete18

            No, you’re driven by envy, and possibly some kind of beating by a rich person when you were young. Those guys are driven by liberal billionaire guilt.

        • StilllHere

          It’s all he’s got.

    • TomK_in_Boston

      Here’s more on the poor overtaxed romney types. It’s so hard, having your tax rate go down so much:

      http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/tax.png

      And if anyone is so dense as to not see that undertaxing the rich is the #1 source of our horrible inequality, look at this and change your mind

      http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2013/05/28/opinion/052813krugman1/052813krugman1-blog480.jpg

    • HonestDebate1

      I hate to correct you but the top 1% do not pay 33%, they pay 39%.

      • StilllHere

        They pay sales tax, property tax, gasoline/jet fuel tax, various fees including but not limited to boat mooring fees, luxury taxes, gate fees for private aircraft …. etc Probably more like 73%.

        • Ray in VT

          And yet as persecuted as they are, they continue to rake in larger and larger percentages of the income in this country and control more and more of the wealth. That must be tough.

          • TFRX

            Yeah, that’s the unspoken part of everyone who pretends they grew up like Monty Python’s “Four Yorkshiremen”: At the end of the day, rich people complaining about their plight are still rich. And poor people who “rabblerouse”, if they don’t get rich, they’re still poor.

          • StilllHere

            But in the end we all get to complain, and that should bring us together.

          • Ray in VT

            There’s nothing quite like a good bit of grousing.

          • StilllHere

            I appreciate you conceding on the facts.
            It’s only because everyone else prefers to get free government handouts. Obama’s made it just too easy.

          • Ray in VT

            Sure. That’s it.

          • StilllHere

            Another concession.
            Your Rolls must be gassed and ready to go.

          • Ray in VT

            I’ve had to retire that in favor of the Bentley. The rolls got stuck in the garage when my car elevator broke. I could fix it, but I just had to get that 5th house. Priorities, you know.

          • pete18

            They still pay a larger percentage of taxes relative to their “share”of the income. Wealth is available for everyone to “control.” One person having a large share of wealth does not prevent another person from acquiring a large share of wealth. The economy is not a zero-sum game.

          • Ray in VT

            And yet their share continues to go up and up. You say that it is not a zero sum game, but for many working Americans the stagnation or outright decline in earning power has corresponded pretty neatly with the concentration of wealth at the top.

          • HonestDebate1

            It’s not their share, it’s their earnings. Income is not divvied, it’s earned.

          • Ray in VT

            Share: “a part or portion of a larger amount that is divided among a number of people, or to which a number of people contribute.” Source: the dictionary. No invention of invisible words needed.

          • HonestDebate1

            A share is divided (or divvied up) among a number of people. The noun is not applicable to the situation because the verb doesn’t happen. My problem was with the verb.

            And I don’t invent invisible words.

          • Ray in VT

            Well, feel free to continue your war on the dictionary and meaning. Correct. You don’t invent invisible words. You just see them in definitions were others can’t. A true superpower.

          • StilllHere

            Except when it comes from the government.

          • pete18

            But as you know, correlation does not mean causation. Maybe you have a working theory how one cases the other?

          • Ray in VT

            I am aware of that, like how the decline in global piracy does not cause increased global temperatures. However, the example that I gave, plus the decline in union membership or the percentage of corporate income going to wages vs. profits all correlate pretty well to some of the less than stellar labor outcomes that we’ve seen for some time. I think that Joseph Stiglitz has quite a bit to say about it.

            In this case, though, I certainly do think that the correlation is highly related to the causation. For instance, when you have a highly profitable company keeping down wages and benefits while lavishing high salaries and perks upon top executives, it is certainly the actions of the company keeping one group’s benefits down while enriching the other.

          • pete18

            Except that supply and demand set the value of labor much more than the greed of
            owners does.

  • http://www.CayerComputing.com/ Melissa A. Cayer

    A lot of pundits are learning how to wield the heart wrench. I mean, the heart wrenching emphasis on certain ideas they voice. Who started slogging the heart wrench?

    • StilllHere

      Think of the children…

  • TomK_in_Boston

    Nice contrast developing between President Obama’s thoughtful handling of the Syria mess vs W’s ignorant, arrogant disaster in Iraq.

    • OnPointComments

      President Obama’s thoughtful handling of Syria? I drew a red line, I didn’t draw a red line. I need the approval of Congress, I don’t need the approval of Congress. I will address the American people to explain the urgency to pause before doing what the American people don’t want me do.

      “A Democratic strategist who works closely with the White House, and who requested anonymity to avoid political retribution, told me, ‘This has been one of the most humiliating episodes in presidential history.’ ”

      http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2013/09/11/this-has-been-one-of-the-most-humiliating-episodes-in-presidential-history-n1697567

      • StilllHere

        Classic contrast. Obummer.

      • Markus6

        I agree with you. We all need the ability to identify when our guy did the right thing by pure dumb luck. I also agree with what one pundit said (I’m paraphrasing), Obama did a stupid thing by saying there was a red line. And he’s been trying to weasel out of it ever since. It’s a shame he can’t just say I change my mind or I said something stupid, but if he did that, he’d be ridiculed.

        I think Obama is an incompetent president, maybe even worse than the second Bush (if that’s possible). But that we’re not bombing Syria is a good thing, no matter how we got there.

        That his followers can’t see his flaws is not surprising.

        • J__o__h__n

          The progressives constantly criticize him: No public option. Wasted lots of time trying to be bipartisan. Stimulus wasn’t big enough. Hasn’t left Afghanistan soon enough. Appointed Timothy Geithner. Took too long to evolve on gay marriage. Shouldn’t have made the red line comment. He isn’t perfect, but he is hardly incompetent and certainly better than Bush.

      • TomK_in_Boston

        Try to stick to what matters. Are we about to have 50,000 WIA, 5,000 KIA, hundreds of thousands of iraqi casualties, >$1 trillion in debt? Yes or no.

        And for what? Well, we have converted iraq into an ally of iran, Yea!, but otherwise iraq is a disaster and getting worse. Worth it, huh?

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          1,700 KIA in Afghanistan since 2001.
          1,300+ of the KIA have been under Obama.

          It is striking how the media coverage has changed.

          • Ray in VT

            Yeah, the media pretty much started ignoring Afghanistan when the the drum beat of war in Iraq started thumping.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            It was a tale of two surges.

          • Ray in VT

            It helped that Iraq was much bloodier. Afghanistan pretty much always got looked at as “the other” war. I don’t see how the government there can hold up without us propping it up in the long run.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Yeah, there aren’t many reasons to be optimistic. It doesn’t help that Karsai is corrupt.

          • Ray in VT

            That’s for sure. The sad part is that maybe he is/was our best option there. Maybe the Russians would like to have another go of it there.

          • hennorama

            WftC — one might also say

            “It’s a tale of more than two hundred thousand dirges.”

            According to a now more than two-years old report by scholars with the Eisenhower Research Project at Brown University’s Watson Institute for International Studies,

            “The cost of wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Pakistan are estimated at 225,000 lives …”

            See:
            http://news.brown.edu/pressreleases/2011/06/warcosts#.UX0r8rcK-Z8.aolmail

    • William

      Oh yes, least not forget the Iraq Liberation Act crafted by your buddy, Bill Clinton And then of course, the “smartest woman in the world” voted to invade Iraq, Hillary Clinton. So give “W”, Bill, and Hillary credit for the Iraq War. They all wanted it and got it.

  • Gordon Green

    There’s a very insightful post about income inequality and the roles of progressive taxation and redistributive government spending among comparable contries here:

    http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2011/03/what-nation-has-most-progressive-tax.html

  • TomK_in_Boston

    Hey, did you see that righty pols are dishonoring the memory of 9/11 by turning it into Benghazi day? Puke level off the charts:

    http://assholeoftheday.us/post/60935867190/9-11-is-about-the-3-000-people-who-died-at-ground-zero

    Meanwhile they have no problem with W being briefed “bin Laden Determined to Strike in USA” and responding by taking vacation clearin’ brush in Crawford during summer 2001 while the alarm bells were going off. Unbelievable.

    • hennorama

      TomK_in_Boston — unfortunately, the previously universal agreement to avoid political attacks on the anniversary of the attacks of Sept. 11th, 2001 was obliterated during the most recent Presidential election campaign, when the Romney campaign first embargoed a statement about Benghazi until after midnight on Sept. 11, 2012, then released a very messy, confused and controversial statement at about 10:30 PM

      And by by “universal agreement” I mean that U.S. politicians and virtually every single American previously agreed that political attacks on the anniversary of the Sept. 11th, 2001 attacks were inappropriate.

      What was most shocking was that the Romney campaign released a statement attacking Pres. Obama, not with the benefit of having all the facts or having even a modicum of hindsight, but instead barely 2 hours after reports came out of Libya that 1 American was shot and killed in the attack.

      Keep in mind that at that point, the total number of casualties was not confirmed, some US personnel were still unaccounted for, and the attack had just been stopped. It was not clear at that point that Ambassador Stevens was dead.

      The Romney campaign issued their statement just minutes after Secretary of State Clinton had confirmed that a US official had been killed in Libya. Again, note that the full extent of the casualties was not confirmed at that point.

      In a crass move, the Romney campaign requested that the press embargo their statement until midnight, so they wouldn’t appear to be criticizing the President on Sept. 11th. They lifted this embargo about 10:30 PM.

      Mr. Romney and his campaign made a critical statement, essentially in the heat of battle, and without complete information, for political purposes.

      This latest stuff is just more of the same.

      • TomK_in_Boston

        Thanks, hennorama, I’d forgotten the Romney nonsense.

        9/11 will never be anything for me but 9/11/01

        It’s even worse how they celebrate any hint of administration negligence, while they think W going on vacation after being warned is OK. If President Obama had been briefed “al Queda Determined to Strike in Benghazi” and did nothing, we would be in the midst of impeachment.

        • OnPointComments

          President Obama was briefed “We’re under attack!” and did nothing, then someone in his administration told the rescuers to stand down, yet we’re not in the midst of impeachment. Go figure.

      • OnPointComments

        I find it incredible that you have a problem with Romney’s statement, yet don’t voice any outrage over the statements and antics of President Obama and Secretary of State Clinton. Does the fiction of the Internet video, concocted for political purposes, bother you? Or is it okay because they waited a day until September 12 to first tell the lie?

        • hennorama

          OPC – Thank you for your response.

          “…the fiction of the Internet video, concocted for political purposes …” is indeed a fiction, but not in the way you mean.

          My position on the Benghazi attacks have been made clear over the past year.

          I have no problem whatsoever with Mr. Romney et al criticizing the President and his policies. What I objected to is the complete lack of propriety and respect for loss of life, and the complete lack of perspective in the timing of the release of their statement.

          I have no doubt that Mr. Romney was waiting for an opportunity to show his foreign policy chops, especially after the criticism over omitting any mention of Afghanistan in his acceptance speech. No doubt he saw the Cairo embassy statement and tweets, and the protests and breach there, as a way to contrast with and criticize Pres. Obama. No doubt his campaign was preparing to make a critical statement, but probably not until after Sept. 11th.

          Then something else happened. The US diplomatic facility in Benghazi is attacked, and a US official is killed. No one knows who is dead, and it is not known that Amb. Stevens is dead.

          THAT was when Romney decided it was appropriate to release a statement.

          Say what you will about the Obama administration’s handling of the attacks and their aftermath, nothing compares to the complete lack of propriety and respect for loss of life, and the complete lack of perspective in the timing of the release of Romney’s statement.

          And of course, the fact that his second sentence was a complete fabrication.

          This was Romney’s statement:

          “I’m outraged by the attacks on American diplomatic missions in Libya and Egypt and by the death of an American consulate worker in Benghazi. It’s disgraceful that the Obama administration’s first response was not to condemn attacks on our diplomatic missions, but to sympathize with those who waged the attacks.”

          If he’d stopped after the first sentence, which was the traditional response to such events, no criticism would be made.

          See:
          http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/09/12/us/politics/libya-statements.html

          http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/09/12/remarks-president-deaths-us-embassy-staff-libya

          • HonestDebate1

            With apologies to OPC who can certainly address your post better than I, what BS! The complete lack of propriety and disrespect for the loss of life was Hillary looking the slain heroes parents in the eye and vowing revenge on the videographer when she knew it was a terrorist attack.

          • hennorama

            Debates Not, He – as you have not disputed my prior interpretation of your acronym BS, your Brain Strain is noted.

            Just out of curiosity, and not to indicate any disbelief of the words of a distraught grieving father, has Charles Woods’ account been independently confirmed?

            And one notes your hyperbolic reinterpretation of Mr. Woods account of what then-Secretary Clinton said to him, as “vowing revenge on the videographer.” Mr. Woods has been quoted as saying that Sec. Clinton indicated to him that she/the U.S. would “make sure that the person who made that film is arrested and prosecuted.”

            BTW, that quote is from one of your favorite sources – TheDimness.com.

            See:
            http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/10/25/joe-biden-to-father-of-former-navy-seal-killed-in-benghazi-did-your-son-always-have-balls-the-size-of-cue-balls/

          • OnPointComments

            “…nothing compares to the complete lack of propriety and respect for loss of life…” Oh, I think there are some things that compare.

            Hillary Clinton to the father of Tyrone Woods, at the ceremony returning the bodies: the filmmaker of the Internet video will be arrested and prosecuted.

            Joe Biden to the father of Tyrone Woods, at the ceremony returning the bodies: “Did your son always have balls the size of cue balls?”

            President Obama about the killing of four Americans: “If four Americans get killed, it’s not optimal.”

            Lies, a vulgar disrespectful joke, trivialization of the deaths. I think that compares to the impropriety of the timing of Romney’s statement.

          • hennorama

            OPC – the favor of your reply is appreciated.

            As I asked of another forum member, and not to indicate any disbelief of the words of a distraught grieving father, has Charles Woods’ account been independently confirmed?

            Certainly his account of his interaction with VP Biden. if true, could easily be interpreted negatively. There is of course an underlying respect present in the words attributed to Biden.

            And Mr. Woods’ account of his interaction with Sec. Clinton could also be interpreted in a negative way were one so inclined. Again, there is an underlying sympathy present in the words attributed to Clinton.

            As to President Obama’s unfortunate words, here’s what I wrote at the time:

            “When I watched The Daily Show last night, I winced at the use of that phrase. It was a very bad choice of words. One could even say it was “inelegantly stated.”

            “If you watch the clip you will see that the phrase “not optimal” was used earlier, and that Pres. Obama’s remark was a direct response to Jon Stewart’s use of the “not the optimal response” phrasing in his comments.

            “Here’s the clip from the Daily Show:

            http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-october-18-2012/exclusive—barack-obama-extended-interview-pt–2

            “About 1:10 in, Pres. Obama was discussing his decision making process and said “… sometimes there are bad folks somewhere on the other side of the world, and you’ve gotta make a call and sometimes it’s not optimal …” which introduced the phrase.

            “About 4:50 into the clip, when discussing the way the Obama admin. has been sending mixed messages on Benghazi, Stewart said “I would say even you would admit it was not the optimal response …” and then the President made the “…if 4 Americans get killed, it’s not optimal” remark.

            “So there’s the context. Still, a very bad choice of words.”

            See:
            http://onpoint.wbur.org/2012/10/19/week-in-the-news-218#comment-687296687

          • OnPointComments

            Have the words of Charles Woods been denied by either Clinton or Biden?

          • hennorama

            Dunno.

            [EDIT/ADD]: There’s zero upside to disputing the words of a distraught grieving father, making it highly unlikely.

        • hennorama

          OPC – as a followup, my remarks to [pete18] from May 13, 2013, in the linked post below, are a good summary of my views on the Benghazi attacks and their aftermath.

          http://onpoint.wbur.org/2013/05/10/week-cleveland-sexual-sanford#comment-896423835

      • HonestDebate1

        Of course Romney happened to be exactly right, so there’s that.

        The full extent of the casualties could not have been known when Hillary issued her statement because there were still more that died hours later while Obama did what? Hillary was already mentioning the video, following the lead of the disgraceful statement from the Embassy in Cairo, in her statement. Her message was essentially, I don’t blame you for being mad at the silly video and I am too.

        There was nothing confusing or controversial about what Romney said. It was needed clarity.

        I’m outraged by the attacks on American diplomatic missions in Libya and Egypt and by the death of an American consulate worker in Benghazi. It’s disgraceful that the Obama administration’s first response was not to condemn attacks on our diplomatic missions, but to sympathize with those who waged the attacks.

        I liked Allen West’ suggestion for the statement that should have been made. I’ll see if I can find it.

        [edit] Here it is:

        ‘The future does not belong to those who attack our Embassies and Consulates and kill our Ambassadors. The Angel of Death in the form of an American Bald Eagle will visit you and wreak havoc and destruction upon your existence’

        • hennorama

          Debates Not, He — how unfortunate that you did not take West’s example to heart. He at least knows how to use the word “wreak” properly.

          As to your other comments — Romney’s second sentence is a complete fabrication, and therefore the exact opposite of “exactly right.”

          So there’s that.

          • StilllHere

            Who needs spell check when you’re aroudn.

          • hennorama

            StilllHere – anyone can make a misteak, but it takes a truly “exceptional” person to neither acknowledge nor correct an error that is repeatedly pointed out, and then to quote someone who properly uses the word in question.

            In that regard, 1DishonestPontificatior is indeed “exceptional.” Some might call him “special.”

            I of course couldn’t possibly comment.

          • HonestDebate1

            Now that’s rich. I make mistakes all the time. What’s disingenuous is pointing to a grammatical error instead of dealing with the devastating truth of the comment. It stinks, smarty pants.

          • hennorama

            1DishonestPontificatior — perhaps you missed the third sentence in my reply to you.

            Is that the old RC thing again?

          • HonestDebate1

            What comment? You reply to many of my comments, I may not have read it. What’s RC?

          • hennorama

            Debates Not, He – it’s now clear from your comments that when you wrote “What’s disingenuous is pointing to a grammatical error …” you were referencing comments about the prior topic “President Obama’s Case On Syria” from Sept. 11, 2013.

            As you did not make specific reference to those comments, I interpreted your above-referenced comment as referring to comments about THIS topic.

            As to your questions:

            1. This comment: http://onpoint.wbur.org/2013/09/13/week-in-the-news-russia-syria-colorado#comment-1043169763
            2. RC = Reading Comprehension

            As it is now clear that you were not referring to THIS thread, allow me to respond, by repeating an earlier response:

            “My view of your nonsense about “gangs … reeking [sic] havoc” is well documented, rendering comment on your current nonsense unnecessary.

            “That you compare the debate over a potential U.S. military strike in Syria with “the gun control debate,” and fail to recognize the implications inherent in the use of chemical weapons, combined with the fact that you equate “Conventional or biological weapons” requires no further comment, as it speaks for itself.”

            See:
            http://onpoint.wbur.org/2013/09/11/obama-speech-syria#comment-1038894811

          • HonestDebate1

            Dangit Hennon, can you just stop with the games and pop quizzes? If you have a question about a comment don’t give me all this stuff about the next three words in the 17th sentence of some comment thing. I still have no idea what you are even talking about.

            You were trashing me as dishonest with some BS about not owning up to a grammar thing to Stillhere. Why are you injecting it? On that thread my point was right on. Gangs are reeking havoc with or without guns. Who but you even cares if I write wreak or reek?

            That all stemmed from the topic of gang violence. It’s a big deal. The President is silent. It became clear his focus was misguided after Sandy Hook and his push for meaningless gun control while he had emotions running high. Meanwhile we just had a guy beaten braindead in NY, no gun. Gangs are destroying neighborhoods, schools, communities and lives. And all you can say about it is I smell bad because I didn’t write wreaks!!! As I recall, you claimed you had already commented on the topic but all you meant is you wrote the word gang somewhere while debating something else. Your comment was unrelated to TomK’s thread and just a dig at me. Why do you reply at all? It’s beyond disingenuous and I said so in my reply here after you brought it up.

            And you still won’t say. You give title tests. So the 3rd sentence you referred to is this:

            “As to your other comments — Romney’s second sentence is a complete fabrication, and therefore the exact opposite of “exactly right.”

            And you said maybe I missed it so I’m supposed to figure out what the hell your already long irrelevant point is about that sentence. So now I am to guess what you are trying to say is my accusation of your avoiding the truth of my comment is unfair because you did accuse Romney of complete fabrication, lying.

            So with all that unnecessary irrelevant BS out of the way we finally get to the point of your pitiful response to my devastating rebuttal. Hillary was most certainly sympathizing with the attackers. Why would she bring up the video at all if her message was not, I don’t blame you for being mad at the silly video, I am too. It was despicable.

          • hennorama

            Debates Not, He – as suspected, it is the old RC thing again.

            Allow me to address your points in sequence.

            1. The irony of you writing “If you have a question about a comment don’t give me all this stuff about the next three words in the 17th sentence of some comment thing” IMMEDIATELY AFTER writing “…can you just stop with the…pop quizzes?” is no doubt lost on you.

            Please make up your mind as to whether or not you deem questions (which you variously describe as “pop quizzes” and “homework”) to be part of “honest debate.”

            2. I was not “trashing [you] as dishonest…about not owning up to a grammar thing to Stillhere.” Rather, I was mocking your habit of “neither acknowledg[ing] nor correct[ing] an error that is repeatedly pointed out…” as well as pointing out the irony of you having “… then quote[d] someone who properly uses the word in question.”

            3. You asked “Who but you even cares if I write wreak or reek?” Answer: among others, [TomK_in_Boston] (who first pointed to your odiferous error, which you hilariously repeated a mere 3 minutes later), [jefe68], and [Ray in VT], each of whom pointed out your reek/wreak error in one way or another, BEFORE I made my comment that “…your stubborn repetition of a misused homophone reminds one of your stubbornly repetitive use of “forrest.” My comment was intended to both give you a “head’s up” (as it appeared that the comments from others had sailed far over your head), as well as to needle you.

            4. You wrote “That all stemmed from the topic of gang violence.” Well, no, it didn’t actually. It “stemmed from” your conflation of “the gun control debate” and “gangs are reeking [sic] havoc” with “What difference does it make if chemical weapons are used” and “Conventional or biological weapons…” YOUR topic was WEAPONS, not “gang violence,” sir. You had a lengthy exchange with [TELew] in which “gang violence” was not mentioned. [TomK_in_Boston] brought up “Gangs in MA us[ing] guns bought in the gun friendly red states…” which YOU dismissed as a “Non-sequitur.” You later complained about “all the dodging and gratuitous nastiness” and claimed that “TElew is the only one to actually comment on the [chemical vs. conventional weapons, etc.] thread.” You’re all over the map, sir.

            5. Again, you write about “the topic of gang violence,” then point to “Sandy Hook” and “…a guy beaten braindead in NY…,” neither of which were “gang violence.” You then write “Gangs are destroying neighborhoods, schools, communities and lives,” but offer no examples. Clearly consistency is not your forte.

            6. I never wrote “[you] smell bad.” Rather, I have politely requested that you “address your use of the word ‘reek,’ as it stinks,” and when you asked “Do you smell something?,” replied that “any odor you detect is either self-generated, or from the equine excrement you are so expert at both wearing and spreading,” as you have noted in the past. In addition, I have repeatedly commended your comic relief skills and have awarded you gold stars when you correct a prior error. So there’s that.

            7. As to your recollection, first let me preface my comment my pointing to my frequently expressed concerns about your memory. You are incorrect about your recollection that “you [hennorama] claimed you had already commented on the topic but all you meant is you [hennorama] wrote the word gang somewhere while debating something else.” This is complete fantasy. For months you have pointed to anecdotal evidence of “the epidemic of black mobs preying on whites,” “black flash mobs,” etc., all of which I have commented on. You are obviously aware of my comments on the topic, which are far too numerous to list.

            8. You wrote “Your comment was unrelated to TomK’s thread and just a dig at me.” As explained above, my comment about “…your stubborn repetition of a misused homophone…” was intended to both give you a “head’s up,” as it appeared that the comments from others had sailed far over your head, and to needle you. This needling, BTW, is also part of an admittedly quixotic quest for behavioral change.

            9. You asked “Why do you reply at all?” Again, your question is answered in points 3. and 8. above.

            10. Again, Romney’s statement was very messy, confused and controversial, and the 2nd sentence was a complete fabrication. To be clear, the word “fabrication” in my comment means “something made up for the purpose of deception.” You called that “lying,” which is not an unreasonable interpretation. As a reminder, this is the sentence in question – “It’s disgraceful that the Obama administration’s first response was not to condemn attacks on our diplomatic missions, but to sympathize with those who waged the attacks.” This sentence contains two inaccuracies:

            A. the Obama administration did not “sympathize with those who waged the attacks,” and
            B. the “Obama administration’s first response” to “attacks on our diplomatic missions” (please note the plural “attacks,” referencing both the U.S. Embassy in Cairo and the diplomatic facility in Benghazi) was NEITHER “to condemn the attacks” nor “to sympathize with those who waged the attacks.”

            11. There is no truth in Romney’s statement to be avoided, nor is there truth in your words that “Hillary was most certainly sympathizing with the attackers….” Here is a quote (aka a verbatim repetition, FYI) of the Statement on the Attack in Benghazi:

            “I condemn in the strongest terms the attack on our mission in Benghazi today. As we work to secure our personnel and facilities, we have confirmed that one of our State Department officers was killed. We are heartbroken by this terrible loss. Our thoughts and prayers are with his family and those who have suffered in this attack.

            “This evening, I called Libyan President Magariaf to coordinate additional support to protect Americans in Libya. President Magariaf expressed his condemnation and condolences and pledged his government’s full cooperation.

            “Some have sought to justify this vicious behavior as a response to inflammatory material posted on the Internet. The United States deplores any intentional effort to denigrate the religious beliefs of others. Our commitment to religious tolerance goes back to the very beginning of our nation. But let me be clear: There is never any justification for violent acts of this kind.

            “In light of the events of today, the United States government is working with partner countries around the world to protect our personnel, our missions, and American citizens worldwide.”

            See:
            http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2012/09/197628.htm

            Please note the second word in the statement – condemn. This alone shows the falseness of Romney’s statement.

            There is no “sympathizing with the attackers” anywhere. The statement “condemn[s] in the strongest terms ….this vicious behavior,” and says there “…is never any justification for violent acts of this kind.”

            Please point out the “sympathizing with the attackers” ANYWHERE in the statement above.

            ==========

            Thank you for your attention. I look forward to your response.

          • HonestDebate1

            TLDR

          • hennorama

            Debates Not, He – thank you for your very kind words in your acronym – Top Level Discussion Response (TLDR).

            If that was not your intended meaning then please define your acronym.

          • 1Brett1

            Maybe his view was obscured by the forrest.

          • HonestDebate1

            It’s “forest”

          • hennorama
          • hennorama

            1Brett1 — for some reason, two lines from a certain film suddenly spring to mind:

            Stupid is as stupid does.

            That’s all I have to say about that.

          • StilllHere

            I’m sorry I couldn’t get past misteak (sic), now I’m hungary.

          • hennorama

            StilllHere — might I suggest some Freedom Fires to go with some Hungarian ghoulash?

          • hennorama

            BTW — in grade school I had a huge pink pencil eraser like this one:

            http://kookykitsch.com/Portals/0/productimages/7658_0e6b4.jpg

          • OnPointComments

            I bought this regular-sized eraser at least 15 years ago and have had it ever since. I chose it very carefully because I knew there wasn’t much of a chance that I’d make enough mistakes to use up a whole eraser in my lifetime. :)

          • hennorama

            OPC – I see that you do indeed believe in magic.

            Interesting.

      • WorriedfortheCountry

        Romney’s tweet was only controversial with the Obama media acolytes. Sure let’s blame Romney for freezing the media and preventing ANY investigative journalism. Why? So they could protect Obama during the election.

        Remember, Hillary’s State Department quickly endorsed the sentiments in the Romney comment and retracted the nonsense they originally put out.

        • hennorama

          WftC — As I am not a member of what you describe as “the Obama media (whatever entities that is supposed to refer to) acolytes,” your initial statement is false. I criticized Romney’s politicization of the Benghazi attacks, beginning exactly one year ago, on Sept. 13, 2012:

          “Here we are, 2 days after the demonstrations at and subsequent breach of the US Embassy in Cairo, and about a day and a half after protests and subsequent deadly attacks at the US Consulate in Benghazi, Libya. At this point, not all the facts are known, and investigations are ongoing.

          “We have lost a US Ambassador, and 3 other foreign service workers in the attack in Libya.

          “This is horrible and reprehensible and indefensible.

          “Unfortunately, this attack in Libya, and the protest and embassy breach in Egypt and newer attacks in Yemen and elsewhere are being used as fodder for political attacks in the US Presidential race.

          “This is disgraceful.”

          See:
          http://onpoint.wbur.org/2012/09/13/u-s-ambassador-killed-in-libya#comment-649343446

          Mr. Romney did not express a single word of condolence for “the death of an American consulate worker in Benghazi.” Not one word. The second sentence in his mishmash mush of a statement is a complete fabrication. This was pointed out almost immediately by myriad entities.

          As to the statement out the the U.S. Embassy in Cairo, please note that the original statement was issued BEFORE the demonstration and breach there, and long before the attacks in Benghazi. This fact alone makes Romney’s statement false.

          The tenor and timing of the Embassy statement leads one to conclude that it was issued to try to calm things down. The diplomats in Cairo saw the uproar over what was viewed by “the street” as blasphemy and were trying to distance the U.S. from the actions of a few provocative fools.

          If Romney’s statement passes muster with you, so be it.

          Thank you for taking the time to respond.

    • OnPointComments

      Meanwhile the liberals have no problem with O being briefed that a terror attack was in progress and responding by going AWOL for the rest of the night, only to show up in the morning to jet off to Las Vegas for another fund raiser. Unbelievable. Did You Know He’s Friends With Jay-Z?

      • TomK_in_Boston

        Are you aware of the relative magnitude of the two events?

        • OnPointComments

          Why don’t you provide us with the cutoff point where the number of deaths don’t matter and the president is allowed to make up a fictitious story to save political face and continue fund raising. Obviously it’s a number greater than 4.

          • StilllHere

            I believe he’s drawn a red line at 5.

          • pete18

            The rules of math always changes when there is a “D”in the equation line.

          • StilllHere

            Sorry, it’s 6 now.

        • HonestDebate1

          There is a difference between 9/11 and the anniversary of 9/11 in the hottest of hot spots.

        • JONBOSTON

          Your point makes no sense. Bush was visiting a children’s classroom BEFORE the events of 9/11. Our pretend president jetted off to Vegas AFTER Benghazi.

          BTW–do you have a problem with our staggeringly incompetent president outsourcing his foreign policy to Putin?

          • StilllHere

            Outsourcing.
            That’s beautiful!

  • marygrav

    When are you going to turn on the sound. Your ways to listen never work for me at the Center where we have MACs. My way to listen is to point and click.

    Get on the stick!

  • Ray in VT

    TEA Party and GOP endorsed state education board member seeks to ban Toni Morrison book from state Common Core reading materials list:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/13/ohio-ban-bluest-eye-toni-morrison-school-board_n_3921001.html?utm_hp_ref=books

    • jefe68

      What’s next, removing the Thomas Jefferson from the history books? Oh wait they already did that.
      What’s amazing about these rubes, and rubes is to polite a word to describe the regressive tea party/GOP conservatives who wish to rewrite history. Including removing any the word slavery.

      What’s next, book burnings?

      • Ray in VT

        Well, that does happen sometimes, but not, I think, under the auspices of a school or state agency. Every once in a while a church has a good ole fashioned book burning. Harry Potter was all the rage a few years ago.

    • TFRX

      You forgot to say this was in Ohio.

      A “swing state”.

      Not a rockribbed “Values” state.

      • StilllHere

        Your a fan of the subject matter, why am I not surprised?

        • TFRX

          Troll.

          Actually, you have a few steps up to hit trolldom.

      • Ray in VT

        Well, those sort of people tend to send up nut jobs no matter where they’re doing it. I think that Toni Morison did say something like “this isn’t Texas or Alabama”.

    • StilllHere

      Rape, incest and pedophilia: what’s not to like? Maybe the kindergarteners could perform a play about it.

      • jefe68

        So i guess you would ban Charles Dickens(child abuse, poverty, pointing out the hypocrisy of the wealthy).

        Suetonius/Robert Graves The Twelve Caesar’s (plenty of violence and pedophilia in this book.)

        While your at it Shakespeare (rape, murder, patricide, child murders, madness).

        • Ray in VT

          Then there’s the Bible. Plenty of horribleness in there.

      • Ray in VT

        It’s a piece of quality literature, and if you have evidence of kindergarteners reading it, then please do tell. Perhaps we can get rid of any book that portrays bad things that actually happen in the world and make the kids just read Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys.

  • Dee

    We need another Revolution….

    I am convinced we need another revolution and will no
    doubt have one soon as the fat cats on Wall Street con-
    tinue to fill their pockets and leave those in the real econ-
    omy to suffer the consequences of their acquired wealth.

    How unconscionable that 47% percent of New Yorkers are
    near or at the poverty level as Tom mentioned today while those crooks on Wall St don’t givem a damn. It is immoral!
    -
    I recall picking up a local New York paper (?Reporter ) in
    2010…with the shocking findings from a Pew study that
    found between 1/3 to 2/3 of the residens in all of New
    Yorks 5 Boroughs experienced food insecurity and relied
    on the Food stamp program to get by. (The same group
    of respondants also reported they could have used housing
    assistance to help keep the roof over their heads…)

    Now, today I read in the Huffington Post and New York
    Times that Eric Cantor in the Hse had vicious plans to
    slash the food stamp program just as he and his pals
    cut housing assistance to Americans in the process of
    becoming homeless following the market crash of 2008.

    He is unfit to lead “We the people..” in my book and
    should be kicked out of office …(See the latest update
    on the GOP disastrous domestic politics against poor
    and working Americans (They don’t give a sh*t about
    real people.) http://robertreich.org/post/60487209429

    As the African American man who called Tom Ash-
    brook this week on poverty in America and the New
    Jim Crow predicted …”History will be very harsh on
    on the GOP…” How right he is. ( .I know I won’t vote
    for them again and neither will young Americans..)

    Dee

    • fun bobby

      are handouts compassionate?

    • William

      How is it the GOP’s problem or legacy that many people in NYC can’t afford to live there? The GOP has not pushed for more welfare to keep people living in expensive areas and that idea falls back to the Democrats. History is being written right now and it is being very harsh on the failed welfare programs pushed by the Democrats for the last 50 years.

    • hennorama

      Are there any publicly traded companies specializing in pitchforks and torches that you would recommend?

  • hennorama

    Sunday Sept. 15, 2013 will mark the 5-year anniversary of the day John McCain lost the 2008 Presidential election.

    On Sept, 15, 2008 McCain said “Our economy, I think still, the fundamentals of our economy are strong,” on the very same day Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy. The very next day, McCain said “We are in a total crisis.”

    McCain never again led in any major poll started after Sept. 15, 2008.

    See:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwide_opinion_polling_for_the_United_States_presidential_election,_2008#Two-way_contest:_Barack_Obama_vs_John_McCain

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/17/world/americas/17iht-mccain.4.16251777.html?_r=0

    • TFRX

      I thought that 5th anniversary was about two weeks ago, when he plucked the Alaskan Quitbull into obscurity (no sic).

      • hennorama

        TFRX – indeed Aug. 29, 2008, when Sen. McCain named Sarah Palin as his running mate, made his desperation clear, but McCain actually led in some polls after his ill-fated choice of “the Alaskan Quitbull.”

        The final nail in the coffin of his Presidential hopes was his statement on Sept. 15, 2008, when McCain’s weakness about the most pressing and important issue – the economy – was made loudly and clearly enough for all voters to hear.

        • TFRX

          True, but of course picking the Wasilla Hillbilly wasn’t reflected in the polls in a week or even two.

          Nobody knew how awful she was on Sept. 7th. People had a lot of questions. Rich Lowry and the rightwing morons had a lot of starbursts.

          But to have a major party nominate a total “mystery box”, who looked passably like a professional pol and had an actual office (Governor of a state!), well, let’s just say that there is a certain level of professionalism any non-interested person would imagine someone put in Palin’s position to have.

          And it took her a few weeks to show herself as not having any of it.

          If only the GOP could have lauched that particular product on Halloween, mere days before the election, instead of Labor Day,

          • hennorama

            TFRX – good points, all.

            Now perhaps we should call it a day on one perfectly pitched member of the choir preaching to another such member. After all, I still have the Six Sigma Conundrum to deal with, and you no doubt have similar choices to confront.

            Thanks as always for your thoughtful and droll response.

  • myblusky

    I can’t imagine why anyone would want to live in NY when almost half the population is near poverty. Aren’t we creating a third world country environment in the US with these huge divides? I don’t have any of the answers, but I am pretty certain the rich aren’t going to find life very pleasant outside their gates when they are surrounded by impoverished people.

    • StilllHere

      The envious create the divides. The people love each other. That’s why there’s not going to be a revolution. People are happy.

      • anamaria23

        It is not about envy. It is about survival.

        • StilllHere

          It’s about love, love yourself, don’t envy.

      • fun bobby

        the people love wifi as long as it is on they are happy

      • StilllHere

        Wow, so many haters, must be progressive. to hate. Count me a lover.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Yeah, but you can still buy a big gulp.

      • disqus_fw2Bu1dEsd

        Yes, that keeps the Proletariat happy and diabetic, hooray!!!!!!!!!

        • fun bobby

          should they have no joy?

    • fun bobby

      that’s what the gates are for. why would you need to leave if your home theater is big enough?

  • Dee

    It is shocking to hear the war mongering Zionist Apologist Kerry
    and Obama threaten Syria on such sketchy evidence as the use of siren gas and patched up videos of gased Syrian children…See the URL below …It sounds like Iraq all over again….and again no one questions the evidence…….no one and it all seemed so mani-pulated for a US military response…..See the URLs below…

    America’s Blinders, Howard Zinn. (look up URL)
    http://www.zcommunications.org/america-s-blinders-by-howard-zinn

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/syrian-rebels-admit-to-being-behind-chemical-weapons-attack/5347424

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/washingtons-inquisition-u-s-sponsored-al-qaeda-terrorists-committing-atrocities-against-syrian-christians/5349713

    • JONBOSTON

      Haven’t seen you post lately. Away on a jihad?

    • disqus_fw2Bu1dEsd

      There can be no Iraq all over again, because as Dubya clearly stated, “Fool me once, shame……..shame on you…..[spluttering noises]… so you can’t fool me again!”

    • JONBOSTON

      I miss your beheading ,Christian church burning, female rape and female mutilation updates!

  • OnPointComments

    “Guess who’s at the White House today? The AFL-CIO of course. And who are they meeting with? President Obama himself. Why? They’re trying to secure a sweetheart Obamacare waiver and they want you to pay for it.”

    HASHING OUT A SWEETHEART OBAMACARE DEAL: OBAMA MEETING WITH AFL-CIO
    http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2013/09/13/hashing-out-a-sweetheart-obamacare-deal-obama-meeting-with-aflcio-n1699679

    • StilllHere

      Well everybody who’s greased his palms is getting waivers so why not the guys who bought the last two elections.

  • AC

    it’s my mission to make onpoint have a futurists ‘news minute’ every friday:
    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-204_162-57602303/3d-printer-makes-robohand-prosthetics/

    • Coastghost

      AC: I don’t want to make a mission of disagreeing with your key assumption but would be pleased to pose an initial concern, namely:
      the future does not exist.
      I think you’ve said you have an engineering background. Good: then you appreciate everything that sciences like astronomy and arts like photography are alike in telling us: that every phenomenon capable of observation, whether in far-flung trans-galactic reaches or as close up as a freshly blooming flower, is a past event. All phenomena emerge from the past: the future itself never arrives and remains incapable of observation, nor are we in any position to “participate” in it: all we can do, and all we ever do, is extrapolate from the past.
      (This view is known elsewhere as “the growing block universe” hypothesis or theory, though I could not say how it’s regarded by philosophers of science.)
      If there’s anything to this, and if you are willing to acquit me of a baseless appeal to semantics, then: what exactly does “futurism” consist of? Is it anything other than a notation for teleology and “preferred outcomes”?
      I’m making as much of this as I am because a lot of our contemporaries seem so enamored of “the future” as a spatio-temporal region capable of occupancy as to veer into a false or lulled sense of what contemporaneity and the present actually consist of.
      3-D printing and design and the prosthetics they permit are capabilities that did not emerge from the 22nd century: these capabilities were built squarely upon capabilities that emerged only in the 20th century.
      So what would you say “futurism” consists of?

      • hennorama

        Yet.

        Before Now Later.

        • Coastghost

          At least until soon.

      • fun bobby

        actually, the only thing that can be observed is the present.

      • HonestDebate1

        That was a really good read Coastghost. It’s truth with a thud, thanks.

        Understanding the future doesn’t exist makes it easier to realize the fantasy of “if only…”.

      • pete18
        • Coastghost

          No need to hurry, but I suspect we’ll all be dust well before we receive any visitation from “the future”.
          Fermi’s Paradox speaks to the silence of “the future” just as well as it speaks to the silence of “the universe”.
          The future continues never to arrive.

          • pete18

            I don’t know, I just saw a guy in my mirror this morning that looked like a much older version of me.

      • AC

        well the straight def seems to say someone who studies the future by observing present trends. i would take it a step further and say, we steer or reject trends based on their possible consequences….or at least, i try….and also, be prepared. the rest of what you said is too philosophical and over my head!

  • anamaria23

    G-20 summit 2012 President Obama, in the presence of Ben Rhodes assistant security advisor, approaches President Putin about persuading Assad to give up chemical weapons with no response, as were follow ups to that conversation ignored.
    President Obama has the guts to issue red line statement while the rest of the world yawns. At UN Putin vetoes all attempts at diplomatic resolution. The world yawns.
    Assad uses chemical weapons, proven by UN investigation, gassing civilians in their sleep toward ghastly deaths.
    President Obama threatens strike.
    Suddenly Mr. Putin comes up with a solution-the same one presented by POTUS that he rejected. President changes course seeing an opening for diplomacy.
    American President regarded as weak for adjusting to situation as it changes using reason and caution. Putin regarded as hero.

    • hennorama

      Up is down and down is up
      Dogs love cats and nope is yup

      Putin’s put out still is stir up

      Left is right and night is day
      Peace thru war via Obamay

    • fun bobby

      …a lot of noise and not much wool

  • Gordon Green

    Symbiosis and cooperation abound in nature. We seem to focus on competition to justify our social systems for cultural and personal reasons. Even our own bodies are evidence of the power of symbiosis and cooperation down to the cellular level.

    Describing a dog-eat-dog model of human interaction as if it somehow is more “real” than a cooperative model is not justified by the parallels in nature that people like caller Jack in Alexander NY try to suggest when invoking Darwin.

    • fun bobby

      I agree and what’s great about evolution is symbiosis and cooperation in nature still always follow the rule of survival of the fittest. for example it is advantageous to help ones nephew because if he is able to reproduce he will pass on a portion of DNA 25% similar to yours which is half as good as reproducing yourself.

      • Gordon Green

        Yes, but maybe not *always*. As I understand it, organisms do not always act in their own genetic self-interest, but often in the genetic interest of the group. An interesting link is here:

        http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/altruism-biological/

        Over the long term, it seems like this group and individual self interest is tempered by ecosystem and biosphere interests, where overly disruptive species tend not to last. Is there not an element of the interests of other species and the planet as a whole in our individual and group self-interest, over the long term?

        • fun bobby

          my example illustrates how what appears to be altruistic is not. I did not read that whole article but it ought to have come to the same conclusion.
          the smartest thing would be for a small group of humans to figure out how to kill off the rest of us. like when lions take over a pride and eat all the cubs of the former lion

  • HonestDebate1

    Despite my enthusiastic vote in 2008 (I’m not stupid), no one can legitimately call me a John McCain fan. It is also true that despite my criticism, fizzed up from frequent abuse of my last nerve, I have the utmost respect for him and his service. I would say that part is Godlike if I were a Christian… even if I wasn’t. God bless you Strunk and White… joking!

    Having said that, this time I’m with him. If Pravda is game, as they claim to be, I am confident McCain’s op-ed will put Putin in his place.

    • hennorama

      Debates Not, He — while Sen. McCain’s op-ed will no doubt be entertaining, pray tell when the last time Russian President Putin was “put…in his place” by mere words?

      BTW – you missed an opportunity to write “McCain’s rootin’ tootin’ straight-shootin’ op-ed will wind up with Putin put-in his place, durn tootin’!”

      • TFRX

        You missed the opportunity to add “…rip-snortinest, Edward Everett Hortonest…”

        (h/t Yosemite Sam. Genuinely.)

        • hennorama

          TFRX —

          opportunity
          once knocked rang bell unheard left
          lost cost mystery

          Yosemite Sam
          bunny bugged rough tough hombre
          says whoa means whoa Yo

    • ExcellentNews

      The difference between Russia and America is that an editorial in the NY Times can change our policy, while an editorial in the Pravda … well, Putin has brought Russia almost back to the USSR days. The oligarchy there now enjoys the best capitalism can offer, with the total control over the masses that communism provided…

      The reality is that Putin is protecting a regional crony. The regimes of Syria and Iran have always been strong allies of Russia. He will do or say anything to keep it this way, including a deal with Al-Qaeda if that was workable. Do you think Putin cares for the principles we in America take for granted? He was in KGB officer school when Obama was writing Constitutional papers.

      Are we going to just sit down and let Putin tell the world that American exceptionalism is dead? That it is ok for any local dictator to exterminate his people? Especially when we can STAND UP and deliver a clear NO at a small cost and risk to our military?

  • jefe68

    The Republicans are defunding, not defending, America.

    • pete18

      How so? We’re spending more money now than when Obama came into office.

      • jefe68

        Gee I guess the CBC is wrong.

        According to the latest CBO report,

        “Compared to the size of the economy, the deficit in 2013 is much lower than in 2009, when Obama took office. The deficit will be 5.3 percent of gross domestic product this year, nearly half the 10.1 percent of GDP in 2009.”

        The improvement in the deficit as measured against GDP is the direct result of the deficit falling to $845 billion for fiscal year 2013—a $300 billion improvement over the previous year. And the positive trend is projected to continue though the next fiscal year where the the annual budgetary deficit will fall again to $430 billion.

        • HonestDebate1

          $845 billion is over twice as much as Bush’s last deficit. As a percentage of GDP the deficit in 2008 was 3.2%. In 2007 after 4 years of raging wars and tax cuts it was 1.2%; 1.9% in 2006. Bush’s biggest deficit to GDP ratio was 3.5% in 2004. He never got close to 5.3%.

          Also, the deficit is not coming down because of cuts to spending.

          • StilllHere

            Don’t confuse him with facts, it hurts his head.

          • jefe68

            Troll.

          • hennorama

            1DishonestPontificator — Wrong, as usual.

            When it comes to matters involving numbers, you might want to STFU (Stick To Foaling Ungulates).

            Your use of FY 2008 indicates that you think Pres. Bush II’s administration somehow ended on September 30, 2008, the last day of FY 2008, and that his administration and the rest of the U.S. government and agencies had no hand in later Fiscal Years. This (of course) conveniently overlooks virtually all of the budgetary impacts of the Great Recession.

            Have you looked up the word “disingenuous” yet, as previously suggested?

            FY 2009, which began on October 1, 2008 and ended September 30, 2009, had a Federal Deficit of $1.4127 Trillion (in then-Current Dollars) and $1.2758 Trillion (In Constant (FY 2005) Dollars).

            Please tell everyone who was President of the United States on October 1, 2008, and who also served until President Obama’s first inauguration, on January 20, 2009 ,if you would be so kind, sir.

            Source:

            http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2014/assets/hist01z3.xls

            (For those who don’t already know, the Federal government’s fiscal year begins on October 1st of the previous calendar year and ends on September 30th of the year with which it is numbered.)

          • pete18

            And despite those three-months that Bush could be held accountable for in 2009, every single full-year that Obama has been in office, US outlays have been more in CONSTANT dollars than for any full-year under Bush. Yes, there has been a small dip in spending between 2010 and 2012 (still much higher than Bush’s last year) but if you look at the White House’s projections in constant dollar spending from 2013 to 2018 it is a straight line up, up, up, up to $3, 535 trillion! So the idea that anyone is “defunding America” is absurd and without a factual basis. I wish that were not the case, we could use a lot of “defunding.”

          • HonestDebate1

            The 2006 midterms had a lot to do with the down turn as well. Barney Frank and Chris Dodd certainly tried hard to kick the Freddie/Fannie can down the road, they swore it was no biggee. Bush was pushing hard for reform but they wouldn’t have it.

          • hennorama

            pete18 – thank you for your reply.

            As I’ve been writing for over a year in this forum, Federal programs and policies do not all suddenly begin or end on the day a President is inaugurated or leaves office. There is overlap and underlap, for a variety of reasons.
            If the above is true, it makes it almost impossible to accurately measure and attribute every single item of Federal revenue or outlay to any individual President. (see more on “The Budget Process and Presidential Terms” a bit below)

            For some perspective, here’s an excerpt from a NY Times article published on February 4, 2008 and titled “Bush Seeks Budget of $3.1 Trillion”

            “WASHINGTON — President Bush submitted a federal budget of $3.1 trillion on Monday, declaring that the spending plan would keep the United States safe and prosperous and, despite its record size, would adhere to his principle of letting Americans keep as much of their own money as possible.”

            “Thanks to the hard work of the American people and spending discipline in Washington, we are now on a path to balance the budget by 2012,” the president said in an introductory message. “Our formula for achieving a balanced budget is simple: Create the conditions for economic growth, keep taxes low and spend taxpayer dollars wisely or not at all.”

            See:
            http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/04/washington/04cnd-budget.html?_r=0

            For some hilarity, here’s a link to the “Fact Sheet: The President’s FY09 Budget” put out by the Bush II White House, and which NEVER MENTIONS the FACT of the total proposed Federal spending of $3.107 T for FY 2009:

            http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2008/02/20080204.html

            For further perspective, here’s an excerpt from the Cato Institute, published on Nov. 19, 2009, and titled “Don’t Blame Obama for Bush’s 2009 Deficit”:

            “The budget for the entire fiscal year was largely set in place while Bush was in the White House. So is we update the chart to show the Bush fiscal years in green, we can see that Obama is partly right in claiming that he inherited a mess (though Obama actually deserves a small share of the blame for Bush’s last deficit since earlier this year he pushed through both an “omnibus” spending bill and the so-called stimulus bill that increased FY2009 spending).”

            And more recently, from that bastion of liberalism (tongue firmly in cheek) the Ludwig von Mises Institute, an excerpt of an article titled “Bush’s Huge Budget Numbers Blamed on Obama” published March 21, 2011:

            “The Budget Process and Presidential Terms

            “The federal fiscal year lasts from October 1 to September 30 (It ended on June 30 prior to 1976). So, the 2009 fiscal year ended in September of 2009, eight months after Bush left office. When Obama was sworn into office, Bush had already submitted his 3.1 trillion dollar 2009 budget almost a year earlier. He then signed the stack of resulting appropriations bills submitted to him by Congress throughout 2008 which authorized the federal spending that would take place once the 2009 FY actually began in October. Then, in the fall of 2008, Bush supported and signed additional spending bills providing for various bailouts and stimulus programs that marked the end of his presidency, and which would show up as spending in 2009. Needless to say, the already-enormous 2009 budget that Bush had submitted in early 2008 was not totally reflective of the full impact of the huge spending increases that would eventually be authorized by Bush. Bush’s original budget was $3.1 trillion, but once one adds in all the bailouts and stimulus spending also supported by Bush, the number is actually much larger, and this is the number that shows up in the spending figures now being attributed to Obama for FY2009.

            “This framework for calculating presidential spending should be applied generally to all presidential terms of office. It would be inaccurate and dishonest to attribute most 2001 federal spending to Bush, just as it would be wrong to attribute most 1993 spending to Clinton. Presidents can and do add to the budgets passed by their predecessors by signing supplemental appropriations bills early in their terms, but this can only account for a small portion of total spending that might occur during a president’s first year in office.

            “The 2009 Omnibus Appropriations Bill, for example, was signed by Obama six months before the end of the fiscal year, and coming in at less than half a trillion dollars, this spending was only a fraction of the 3.5 trillion or so in spending already signed into law by Bush earlier that fiscal year.

            “It is also important to note that just because spending is authorized in a certain fiscal year doesn’t mean it’s actually spent in that same year. This is especially true when we’re talking about new stimulus programs and discretionary spending. In all likelihood, only a portion of the money authorized in the spending bills signed by Obama in 2009 would actually show up as spending that occurred before September 30.”

            See:
            http://archive.mises.org/16107/bushs-huge-budget-numbers-blamed-on-obama/

            ==========

            As to Federal spending – what did you think would happen after the Great Recession? FY 2009 has thus far been the peak in Federal Spending (FS). These are the figures in Trillions of Constant (FY 2005) Dollars:

            FY 2009 3.1768 FY 2014* 3.0976
            FY 2010 3.0836 FY 2015* 3.1371
            FY 2011 3.1498 FY 2016* 3.2143
            FY 2012 3.0222 FY 2017* 3.2690
            FY 2013* 3.0862 FY 2018* 3.3536

            * estimated

            BTW, the FY 2018 estimate is about 24.0% higher than the FY 2008 FS of $2.7038 T, ten years after Pres. Bush II last FULL FY, and about 19.1% higher than Pres. Bush II’s FY 2009 proposed budget (in Constant FY 2005 Dollars)

            Thanks again for your response.

          • pete18

            “BTW, the FY 2018 estimate is about 24.0% higher than the FY 2008 FS of $2.7038 T, ten years after Pres. Bush II last FULL FY, and about 19.1% higher than Pres. Bush II’s FY 2009 proposed budget (in Constant FY 2005 Dollars)”

            Exactly, thanks for making my point. We are not defunding anything, we continue to spend MORE.

          • hennorama

            pete18 – you’re welcome. Facts are facts, even when comparing estimates. ;-)

            More info for your consideration:

            Federal Spending in the first FULL FY under Bush II, FY 2002, was $ 2.2006 T (in constant 2005 dollars). Only six years later, in FY 2008, it was $2.7038 T, an increase of nearly 22.9%. In only SIX years.

            Do you expect Federal Spending to decline, and if so, why?

            What would you “defund” if you could, and why?

            Thanks for your response.

          • pete18

            No, sadly, government seem incapable of ever making any real cuts in spending. I just wanted to make sure Jefe68 found a more factual critique for Republicans. Much to my dismay, the Grand Ol’ Party has been rather ineffectual at getting Obama to defund anything.

            At this point, If they could just keep future increases in spending limited to the rate of inflation I’d be happy.

          • hennorama

            pete18 – TY for your response.

            More noggin fodder:

            Federal FY 2018 estimated spending versus FY 2005 spending is 35.66% higher (in constant 2005 dollars).

            The Composite Deflator for 2005 is of course 1.0000, and the current Composite Deflator for 2018 is 1.3267, an increase of 32.67%.

            Pretty close, no? Perhaps even “close enough for government work.”

            Source:
            http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2014/assets/hist01z3.xls

          • HonestDebate1

            The numbers came from OMB. I was replying to Jeffe who already cited 2009. Did you miss it? Why are you being smug and telling me what I think? That’s disingenuous. Are you suggesting Bush caused the banking crises?

            Despite Obama spending half of TARP and throwing another $814B down the rat hole stimulus coupled with sucking confidence out of the market by threatening not to extend the tax cuts and ignoring jobs for Obamacare in FY2009, I did not blame him. I was pointing out the 5.3% deficit to GDP ratio that Jeffe pined for is awful.

            BTW cutsie, we no longer breed horses here at the farm. If you want to be nasty with obscene acronyms then just have the balls to say it without being disingenuous. There’s no need to be cute.

          • hennorama

            Debates Not, He – your comedy is appreciated.

            First of all, you may wish to check your spelling of [jefe68].

            Second, the use of the word “indicates” in my post meant “shows or suggests.” Paraphrasing – “Your use of FY 2008 [shows or suggests] that you think Pres. Bush II’s administration somehow ended on September 30, 2008…” Hope that helps with your reading comprehension.

            Third, to answer your question – no, I am not “suggesting Bush caused the banking crises.” I am suggesting “…that you think Pres. Bush II’s administration somehow ended on September 30, 2008…” Again, hope that helps.

            Fourth, you wrote, in the post to which I replied, “$845 billion is over twice as much as Bush’s last deficit” AND “Bush’s biggest deficit to GDP ratio was 3.5% in 2004. He never got close to 5.3%.” These are both FALSE. (aka “Wrong, as usual.”)

            Pres. Bush II’s proposed FY 2009 budget included Federal Spending (FS) of $3.107 T. Actual FS for FY 2009 was much higher, due to TARP, as you helpfully pointed out, and partly due to the 2009 Omnibus Appropriations Bill signed into law by Pres. Obama in March 2009, which added a bit over $400 billion to the actual FY 2009 FS of $3.5177 T (in then-current dollars). (Your screed about “throwing another $814B down the rat hole stimulus…” blahblahblah “…ignoring jobs for Obamacare…” will be allowed to pass without further comment, as it has zero value.)

            Even if FY 2009 spending had been limited to Bush II’s $3.107 T, the resulting deficit would have been $1.002 Trillion, or about 7 percent of GDP.

            So there’s that.

            Fifth, horses are “Foaling Ungulates” are they not? (“Did you miss it?”) Again, hope that helps with your RC.

            Your self-righteous comments are amusing, and will pass without further comment, especially the hilarious “If you want to be nasty with obscene acronyms then just have the balls to say it without being disingenuous.” Just out of curiosity – is the word “balls” considered to be “obscene” in this context?

            Suggestion: look up the word “hypocrisy.”

          • HonestDebate1

            Dude, I know when the term ends, you’re being silly. Do you know when Obama’s began?

            What I wrote was consistent. What was the deficit to GDP ratio for the 3 months left after the fiscal year? It wasn’t 5.3%. During that period Bush was freeing up the other half of TARP so Obama could use it immediately.

            Foaling is a verb. STFU cutsie.

          • jefe68

            Well now, there you go. STFU cuties.
            The prince of pontificating inanity is also a hypocrite.

          • HonestDebate1

            I wrote cutsie. What’s hypocritical about that?

          • hennorama

            TheBeatenSod1 – please define “cutsie” as it appears in no standard dictionary, and you’ve now used it twice in replies to [hennorama]. Please also define your acronym STFU, as “Stick To Foaling Ungulates” does not seem to fit the context.

            As always, my requests are an effort to avoid misinterpretation and misunderstanding.

            As to all your questions and comments about Presidential terms, please see my post to [pete18], below, and here:

            http://onpoint.wbur.org/2013/09/13/week-in-the-news-russia-syria-colorado#comment-1045581100

            “Schoolmarm Says” – In the context of Stick To Foaling Ungulates, “Foaling” is an adjective. For some reason, the following example sentence comes to mind:

            “You are a babbling fool.”

            This is merely an example and intended for no other purpose, of course.

            For more on the topic, and to help with the old RC, please see:

            http://www.englishgrammarsecrets.com/ingform/menu.php
            http://www.ecenglish.com/learnenglish/lessons/learn-english-noun-and-adjective-endings

          • HonestDebate1

            I have no idea what you are talking about. Why do refuse to answer my simple questions? Foaling fails as an adjective as well none. We get our PMU foals from Canada. None of our horses foal or are foaling, ever. It’s not possible.

            STFU, if you can’t stick to the topic.

          • hennorama

            TheBeatenSod1 – My prior requests for your definitions of “cutsie” and “STFU” are hereby renewed.

            Simplifying for the simple (again):

            1. I have answered your questions both directly and by reference.
            2 Stick To Foaling Ungulates (STFU), explained: “You are best served by writing about the things with which you are most familiar. In your case, one of those things is horses (aka Foaling Ungulates, aka hoofed, herbivorous, quadruped, placental mammals whose offspring are called “foals”).

            The larger point, which was explicitly expressed in the referenced post, to [pete18] is

            “As I’ve been writing for over a year in this forum, Federal programs and policies do not all suddenly begin or end on the day a President is inaugurated or leaves office. There is overlap and underlap, for a variety of reasons.

            “If the above is true, it makes it almost impossible to accurately measure and attribute every single item of Federal revenue or outlay to any individual President.”

            That said, you conveniently omitted FY 2009 from your statements about “Bush’s last deficit” and “Bush’s biggest deficit to GDP ratio…” President George W. Bush was still POTUS in 2009, was he not?

            This is at best misleading. Based on the fact that you have done this before, one could fairly say that you were “intentionally deceptive” with your omission. I of course couldn’t possibly comment.

            After you define “cutsie” and “STFU” as again requested, please Stick To Foaling Ungulates and tell us more about “PMU foals.”

          • HonestDebate1

            You’re out of your league cutsie. Jeffe gave 2009 as I said. I was replying to him. I didn’t conveniently leave out squat. If you know how to calculate the last 3 months of deficit to GDP ratio and factor in the TARP money that Obama spent then have at it. Also factor in the indirect consequences of businesses knowing trouble was coming the minute Obama was elected and planning accordingly before he was seven sworn in.

            And I don’t need a civics lesson thank you very much. You’re just dodging. Go back and read Jeffe’s comment and my reply then start over. You’ve strayed. Try to focus on the forrest.

            And give it up, our horses are hoofed, eat grass and have four legs. all of them. Not a single one is foaling which is a verb. If it was an adjective it would apply only to the mares of breedable age and stock. We don’t even own any mares. They’re pissy.

          • hennorama

            Debates Not, He – you use so many undefined terms.

            What is a “league cutsie,” how do you know I had one/more than one, and that I am “out of” it/them? As a point of fact, I am not a member of any league, unless one considers the informal WAPLL (Well Above Poverty Line League), and everyone knows the first and second rules of WAPLL.

            As previously stated, it’s almost impossible to accurately measure and attribute every single item of Federal revenue or outlay to any individual President. Presidential transitions and Federal fiscal years do not coincide. This means it is beyond silly to argue over transitional years.

            However, it is completely false to not recognize the transitional year’s implications, and to attribute all or none of the fiscal impacts to one administration or the other, as you do WITHOUT FAIL. This is just the most recent example.

            Sorry about your stray pissy arboreal gumpy/gimpy/grumpy horses, or whatever you blahblahblahhed about.

            Sorry too that you cannot understand a clear explanation. Again, it’s the old RC thing. My final attempt: horses, generically and not your specific animals, are ungulates (look it up) and their offspring are known as “foals.” This means horses are (using an adjective + a noun, again, look it up) FOALING UNGULATES.

            FYI, Foaling Ungulates anagrams (that’s a transitive verb, BTW) to “Nuts Foil Language,” which seems perfectly appropriate.

          • HonestDebate1

            You are the one going to the weeds to deflect from the point as you always do. I left the overlap alone and made my case to jeffe without blaming Obama or Bush for FY2009, you’re confused. I have beat the drum for much longer than you about other factors including overlap.

            The fact is the effort to paint this economy as one that is recovering in any significant way is ludicrous. You and jeffe were trying to give credit to Obama, that’s disingenuous. Any improvement is either despite Obama (fracking in the private sector, etc) or because of accounting gimmicks and propaganda.

          • HonestDebate1

            Dude, I know what an ungulate is. I know what a foal is. I know what foaling is. Evidently you don’t, which is fine. I have nothing to do with foaling ungulates and your suggestion is made to me. ME! And now you say it’s generic. That’s stupid. A mare in the process of giving birth is foaling. That’s what the word means.

            And again, grow a pair. That’s not what you mean. It’s not what you have ever meant. You got your panties in a twist because I used the acronym on you and now you’re trying to be cute. It’s not, it’s dumb. It’s transparent. You will move heaven and earth to keep from engaging in honest debate.

          • hennorama

            Debates Not, He – as previously stated:

            “You can lead a G D Smith to logic, but you can’t make him think.”

            Please, tell me again about what I mean, or what I “have ever meant” after my repeated, patient, explicit, specific explanations of EXACTLY what I mean and meant.

            Please.

            Please also reconcile these two statements, both written by you:

            “Please don’t tell me what I think.” (A G S R-O-M classic)

            “That’s not what you mean. It’s not what you have ever meant.”

            The balance of your words are non-responsive drivel, and as such will pass otherwise unremarked upon.

          • HonestDebate1

            You know in your heart I’m right. I know what you think.

          • hennorama

            1DihonestPontificator — now THAT’S funny.

            Do you take your comedy show on the road? If so, please point one to the scheduled appearances.

          • HonestDebate1

            Also keep in mind Bush gets blamed for all of TARP but spent only half of it. Tarp was paid back to Obama and he did not return it, he spent it. It was like Bush gave Obama $700B to spend and still got the blame for the deficit.

            TARP should have been a wash. We made $32B off the banking bailout. We lost our ass with the auto bailout.

          • hennorama

            Debates Not, He – please allow me to translate your comment:

            “Blah blah blah Bush gets blamed for all of TARP blah blah blah. Tarp was paid back to Obama blah blah blah he spent it. Blah blah blah Bush gave Obama $700B to spend and still got the blame blah blah blah.
            TARP blah blah blah. Blah blah blah $32B blah blah blah. Blah blah blah ass blah blah blah auto bailout.

            Well said.

            BTW, was President Obama supposed to get in a time machine, and then go back in time to “return it”? Another question – is “ass” in this context an obscenity, a profanity, or simply coarse inanity?

          • HonestDebate1

            It was supposed to be returned to the treasury, it was a loan. It did not have to cost taxpayers a dime. The money was paid back to the government by the banks with interest.

            You get weird when you’re cornered. Why not just debate honestly?

          • hennorama

            Debates Not, He – please allow me to again translate your comment:

            “Blah blah blah. Blah blah blah. Blah blah blah.
            Weird Blah blah blah. [Dishonest nonsensical question].”

            Well said.

        • hennorama

          jefe68 – actually, the most recent CBO updates are even better:

          “Updated Budget Projections: Fiscal Years 2013 to 2023

          “Updated: In July 2013, the Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA) revised upward the historical values for gross domestic product (GDP); CBO extrapolated from those revisions so that its baseline projections of GDP reflect them. Although CBO’s projections of revenues, outlays, deficits, and debt over the 2013-2023 period have not changed since they were issued in May, those amounts measured as a percentage of GDP are now lower as a result of BEA’s revisions. An updated version of Table 1 of this report shows those percentages of GDP taking into account BEA’s revisions.

          “If the current laws that govern federal taxes and spending do not change, the budget deficit will shrink this year to $642 billion, CBO estimates, the smallest shortfall since 2008. Relative to the size of the economy, the deficit this year—at 4.0 percent of gross domestic product (GDP)—will be less than half as large as the shortfall in 2009, which was 10.1 percent of GDP.”

          See:

          http://www.cbo.gov/publication/44172

          http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/Table_1-revised_GDP_projections.pdf (This table updates Table 1 in CBO’s Updated Budget Projections: Fiscal Years 2013 to 2023 (May 2013).)

          • HonestDebate1

            CBO projections are just slightly better than nothing. They projected $200B deficits as far as the eye could see for Clinton in 1993. They did not factor in the 94 revolution and the Contract with America, not to mention the tech bubble. They project what is handed to them in a vacuum. For example, do you know what GDP was assumed?

          • hennorama

            Dishonest1 – indeed CBO estimates are often inaccurate. I have never said otherwise.

            What is odd is that you demonstrate that CBO projections are often inaccurate, yet in prior posts you cite CBO projections as evidence that “Obamacare is killing jobs”.

            Curious.

            A less charitable observer might call someone who both cites and accepts CBO estimates on one topic, and later criticizes CBO estimates as “just slightly better than nothing” on another topic, “disngenuous.”

            I of course couldn’t possibly comment.

          • HonestDebate1

            You don’t need to project to say obamacare is killing jobs. CBO does fine at analyzing what happened. If they projected jobs lost in the future because of it they probably underestimated.

            Again, what GDP growth did Obama give them to base their projection on?

          • hennorama

            Debates Not, He – indeed, any idiot can “say obamacare is killing jobs,” as you just wrote. See below for your reward.

            I do not know the answer to your question. Perhaps you should try this newfangled thing called “Search.”

          • HonestDebate1

            Why should I search? You are the one citing the numbers. Didn’t you verify them or did you just like them?

            I’ll take your answer as “some fantasy number”. And dude there is no one on the planet Obama included who doesn’t believe Obamacare is killing jobs. Why do you think he’s delaying by decree until after the midterms. Why do the unions want out? Why are part-time jobs at record levels. What is the LFPR so pitiful?

            It must be lonely on that island.

          • hennorama

            Debates Not, He – your response is appreciated.

            Your question “Why should I search?” can only be answered by you, sir. Perhaps you are merely intellectually uncurious. Perhaps you are merely lazy. I of course couldn’t possibly comment.

            I quoted (aka repeated verbatim, FYI) a CBO webpage. As explicitly stated, I do not know the answer to your question. If you are curious as to the CBO’s methodology, you might start at http://www.cbo.gov . I believe this is called “doing your own homework.”

            Feel free to enjoy your fantasy about numbers not supplied by [hennorama]. As Mitt Romney said in the first Presidential debate last year, “Make up a number…”

            As to your other questions:

            1. I haven’t given it a moment’s thought. Perhaps you should ask President Obama, as I am not a mind reader.
            2. Ask “the unions.” Ask each and every one, please.
            3. No answer is required as you have made a strangely worded statement. If that was intended as a question, perhaps you should ask employers. Again, I’m not a mind reader.
            4. Please rephrase your gobbledygook, again. On second thought, never mind.

            I am not currently on an island. The island I was on most recently, Oahu, is pretty densely populated, and I was far from alone. Sorry for your misimpression.

          • HonestDebate1

            It’s not the CBO’s methodology, it’s the methodology given to them by whomever requests the information. This is why the numbers are merely a political tool in regards to projections. If you are going to sing the praises of the alleged recovery then you should realize what you are basing it on. It’s disingenuous not to give the caveat if you are going to post the numbers and imply they are meaningful.

            There is a lot of misunderstanding as to how the CBO works and what it does. You really should look into it.

            1) Maybe you should because the politics wreaks. He doesn’t even have the authority.

            2) I don’t have to ask the unions they have been clear. Trumka is not happy, The Teamsters say it will destroy the health and well being of it’s members.

            3) read it again

            4) ditto to 3

            Why are you so uncurious? Are you lazy? People are hurting and hurting bad because of this debacle. We need more jobs not less.

            You are on the ideological island of willful blindness as evidenced by your astonishing incuriousness, There are very few people who say claim Obamacare is not killing jobs. It’s a lonely place.

          • hennorama

            Debates Not, He – Glad to see that you’re making progress. You now write that it’s “very few people” rather than “no one on the planet” who, according to your opinion, “claim Obamacare is not killing jobs.” See below for your reward.

            I see. You know all about the CBO methodology, but want ME to answer your question. The GS R-O-M says:

            [Alrighty then].

            I am not responsible for the CBO’s numbers. I just quoted them. Feel free to give a detailed disputation.

            Not everything rises to the level where I think about it.

            Please list all of the unions that you say “want out,” and provide a comparison of that number to the total number of unions in the U.S.

            Gobbledygook. No response required.

            Same as above,

            My intellectual curiosity is clearly not in dispute, nor is my work ethic.

            The three most important things the US economy needs are 1. jobs, 2. Jobs, and 3. JOBS. You were only one-third correct, so no reward.

            My views are not based on ideology. I am neither blind, nor lonely, but I can’t speak about willfulness.

          • HonestDebate1

            It went right over your head.

          • jefe68

            There it is. The right wing denial of the CBO if it contradicts their narrative.

          • HonestDebate1

            Do you deny that the CBO projected $200B Clinton deficits or do you deny Clinton had surpluses?

  • HonestDebate1

    “Hey, can you tell I’ve lost some weight? I’m on that new Obama diet. Every day I let Vladimir Putin eat my lunch. That’s how it works.” -Jay Leno

    • anamaria23

      Actually, President Obama carefully prepared Mr. Putin’s lunch for him. It is called crow. If you and Mr. Leno carefully followed the unfolding of events you would both get it.

      • StilllHere

        Pathetic.

    • OnPointComments

      When even David Letterman, who spent all of Obama’s first term still telling Bush jokes, knows that President Obama is a bulls—tter, then you know the tide of public opinion may have turned.

      DAVID LETTERMAN: Well, it looks like we’re getting ready to teach Syria a lesson. And President Obama is now saying that he never used the term “red line.” Remember when he was talking about if we find out that they used chemical weapons in Syria that that would be crossing a red line, and if they crossed that red line, by God, we had to go in there and get them? If they crossed the red line, that would be a violation of the red line. He drew a red line. Had a red line everywhere.

      Well now the president is saying he never used the term “red line.” He’s saying that the world used the term “red line.” So, it’s taken him five years, but finally the guy has learned how to bulls—t (bleeped).

      • fun bobby

        he has been practicing for a while.

    • fun bobby

      wow what makes it funnier is that jay leno actually said something funny

  • JGC

    If we put two trained ophthalmologists, Rand Paul and Bashar Al-Assad, in a negociating room, do you think they could see the Syrian crisis eye-to-eye?

    • ExcellentNews

      Good one, but I doubt it. Rand Paul used his training to save people’s eyes. Assad probably used his for devising better eye-gouging techniques for his torture teams…

    • brettearle

      Which one would blink?

      • HonestDebate1

        That was good.

        • brettearle

          Thanks.

          I haven’t forgotten about your work.

  • OnPointComments

    Last week, California Gov. Jerry Brown was sent a bill by the Assembly which would allow illegal immigrants to receive driver’s licenses in the state, joining ten other states that license illegal immigrants.

    Isn’t it odd that illegal immigrants can figure out how to get a state-issued ID, but Democratic party voters can’t.

    Hmmm, I wonder which party will get those illegal immigrant votes.

    • hennorama

      OPC – did your source include the following information?

      “The bill requires a special mark and notation on the licenses, the initials DP (driver’s privilege) instead of DL (driver’s license). The notation would say the document “does not establish eligibility for employment or public benefit.”

      See:

      http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-legislature-20130913,0,4343595.story

      Also, California does not currently issue state IDs to anyone who does not have a valid Social Security Number (SSN). The SSN of all applicants is “verified with the Social Security Administration while [the applicant] is in the office.” These IDs are only issued after an in-person visit to a DMV office.

      See:

      http://dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm#idrenew

  • ExcellentNews

    American “exceptionalism” is real. We were the first country in the world to build a working social democracy, with freedom, justice, and opportunity for most people. Who the f.ck is Putin to speak against it? He was learning torture techniques at the KGB officer school, at the time when we were bringing the promised freedom to millions, and giving hope to billions (including his own citizens in communist Russia).

    No, the problem is that we betrayed our exceptionalism ourselves. We let our budding oligarchy drag us down in a race to the bottom with Russia, China, and all the other slave-labor countries. Instead of bringing fair wages and labor standards to the rest of the world, we let our CEOs and bankers become just like the Russian oligarchs by exporting American jobs and using the American middle class as a piggy bank. Instead of responding to 9/11 with dignity and principle, we let the crony contractors behind Bush turn us into a nation of cowards, torturers and profiteers. “The alert level is red”… while Guantanamo is full of sheep herders grabbed for blood money and handed over to us. And there is so much more if you care to learn about it.

    So here we are. Winking at a dictator who gasses his own people. Applauding the leader of a gang of few hundred oligarchs who OWN Russia. Are we going to sit down and watch the new season of “American Idol”, or stand up for the principles that made America into a “shining city on a hill” for the rest of the world??? Because that is not just rhetoric – it was real, it is still largely real, and it is still OURS TO LOSE.

    • brettearle

      While you make some provocative points, Putin’s real emphasis, I think, had to do with Russia’s `exception’ with what they view as our Imperialism.

      Putin sees Obama’s “Exceptionalism” as synonymous with his (Putin’s) view of the US’s Global Political Arrogance.

      The more the US realizes and understands–how more and more of the World views us–the better off we, and the World, are going to be.

      Forget about our great history (or our so-called great history).

      Like many men and women, in the United States–from the “Me” generation onward, who seek Instant Gratification–many in the world are saying to the US,

      What have you done for me lately?

      and….

      What are you doing TO US, lately? [That, of course, is from their perception; not necessarily from ours.]….

      The US, in the eyes of Russia, has lost a great deal of political capital because of our war with the Serbs (a traditional ally of Russia) and our invasion of Iraq.

      For Putin these things have LIVE and active memory.

      The more complex the Middle East continues to become, the more likely we will be tempted to intervene–ESPECIALLY, when it comes to IRAN.

      If we do not anticipate the potential dangers in the future, we will be on the brink of a regional war or WWIII.

      And many people regard that as unthinkable.

      The more we regard such a possibility as only an abstract anxiety–and nothing more–the more it will be at our own specific, and very clear, peril.

    • fun bobby

      we still gas people here in America. it has been a while but its still a legal option in a few places

    • pete18

      ” Instead of bringing fair wages and labor standards to the rest of the world”

      And your suggestions for accomplishing this would be…..?

    • jimino

      Someone like William Buckley, an intellectually honest conservative, would be shocked by his self-identified progeny praising the former KGB member at the helm of the former Soviet union at the expense of their own country for purely partisan political reasons.

  • HonestDebate1

    Wow, it’s a shame most of you would rather eat a bowling ball than watch Foxnews. Huckabee just had a very touching interview with Charles Woods the father of Tyrone. He was very gracious but distraught and confused. He told of Hilary promising to go after the videographer. He talked about the known available assets that were not sent. He related that the body of his son was on the tarmac for 3 hours. He rightfully pointed out that there was a time when we left no troop behind. He lamented the fact Obama was disengaged and resting up for his fundraiser the next morning. He still has no answers. Obama is still keeping the witnesses under wraps. It’s disgraceful and heartbreaking.

  • HonestDebate1

    It occurs to me, there have been many excuses made for Obama’s Benghazi video lie by saying the facts were unclear for days and weeks. Obviously that is untrue as it was pretty certain within 24 hours it was a terrorist attack. But I’ll play, let’s assume the President, State and his entire intelligence team were clueless for days and weeks. Why? Could it be because we had no access to the site for those days and weeks? And why is that?

    We had a new leader in Libya who was on our side for the first time in a half century. He pledged his support. He denounced terrorism. He was a Muslim who could make a difference… IN LIBYA!!! He was just what the doctor ordered. He was just what the world needed. He was weight on the good side of the uncertainty scale the Arab spring set in motion. He did not allow us on site because he was so insulted by the video meme after he personally went out on a limb to name names and side with America against Islamic terrorist. That took incredible courage and a deep desire for peace. Obama had none of it.

    I’ve written about this a few times before but its’s worth repeating because the libs never address it when I do. I mean really, don’t you ideologues understand how huge this snub was? At the very least, if you are going to stretch credulity so far as to suggest we didn’t know the facts weeks out then at least condemn the action that kept us from investigating the facts on the ground. But you can’t do that because that action was a lie you must defend. It’s surreal.

    • Steve__T

      OK enough of foreign policy. Something closer to home and effecting the living, in the State of North Carolina. We are in deep due to decisions of the ruling party of the State. The Republicans. I’m sure I have your attention, and hope you can put some light on this situation in our State. Please watch or read the following and give me your honest opinion. Please refrain from placing any blame on anyone other than our State legislators, Thanks

      http://www.wral.com/news/local/documentaries/video/12879768/#/vid12879768
      http://www.wral.com/wral-tv/video/12866777/#/vid12866777
      http://www.wral.com/wral-tv/video/12866748/#/vid12866748
      http://www.wral.com/wral-tv/video/12866768/#/vid12866768
      And please tell me what we are going to do about this
      http://www.wral.com/news/state/page/12551019/

      I am truly looking for an honest debate about this problem that is affecting OUR State, what can we do or say to effectively change this problem. Or do you even see it as one?

      • HonestDebate1

        Well I wish you would have started another thread or at least made an attempt to address the very important point but no one ever does and probably won’t this time so I guess it’s irrelevant.

        I’ve got horses to feed and I’m running late. I’ll address this later.

        • Steve__T

          I wish that you would have answered.

      • HonestDebate1

        I watched some of that and found the tactic of telling selective sob stories sleazy. Ditto the implied victimization by whining about being called deadbeats. Nobody says anyone who receives aid is a deadbeat but there are definitely deadbeats out there and the problem must be addressed. Paying people not to work is highly destructive.

        I want to know how long those being cut off have been collecting. I want to verify they have made every effort to find work. I want to know how many still get benefits.

        I see the unemployment rate as a problem but it is being addressed in NC. I do not see a problem with trimming the rolls. Do you remember when Clinton and Newt took 6 million people off of welfare? The predictions were dire. The accusations of imposed poverty were rampant. It didn’t happen. Instead we got 6 million more tax payers and surpluses ensued.

        • Steve__T

          Thanks for responding.

          • HonestDebate1

            You’re welcome, it’s a dicey situation. I have a neighbor who was out of work for two years but he could have gotten work. He did not want to take a $8 or $9/hour job because after expenses there was no advantage over signing up as he calls it. He said he would wait until his benefits run out before he did what he had to do.

            This dynamic happens a lot as an unintended consequence of compassion but it’s not compassionate. There has to be a better way.

  • fun bobby

    perhaps as a sign of good faith America and Russia should give all their chemical weapons to the UN by the end of the month

  • HonestDebate1
  • Coastghost

    Alternative headlines:
    Obama Sternly Warns Iran Not to Misinterpret His Seeming Ineptitude
    and/or:
    Obama Channels Nixon: “Your President is not a stooge”.
    Is Obama’s head really in such a bubble now that he doesn’t see that MANY people around the world view his latest performance as four- or five-star bumbling? Owning up to grand miscalculation (which he’s dismissing as “style”) seems an impossible feat for him. VERY defensive posture our President affects. I wish him and his insecurities well.

    • brettearle

      Alternative Headline:

      Radical Right Blinks [that is, if they have the foresight and the hindsight, to actually blink]:

      Obama Earns Nobel Peace Prize

      • Coastghost

        Odd: I don’t hear either celebratory or congratulatory applause just now. (No doubt, audience members are still busy scratching their heads over hearing US foreign policy orchestrated by the Russian government.)

        • brettearle

          One man’s “Foreign Policy orchestrated by a [foreign] government is another man’s, “Opportunity for Two Opposing Sides to come together for negotiation.”

          • 228929292AABBB

            Is another man’s “As the world wonders whether America is still on top, Russia seizes on the opportunity provided by America’s confused, weak President in order to take over and displace the USA as top cop – disturbing ramifications to follow”

          • brettearle

            The above comment, by 2289, is a very serious misreading of the Diplomacy

  • 228929292AABBB

    What David Ignatius is missing, in my opinion, is this: He says that to give people the skills they need in this economy which is changing structurally they need education and training. The truth is for people to have the skills they need in this economy which is changing structurally they need to be smart and raised by functional, motivated families in order to take advantage of the education and training. Not everyone is smart and raised by those families, and the only place our economy has for them is fast food. You can take all the money you want from the rich, it won’t make the bottom 25% (50%?) of this country fit to work in a knowledge economy. Time to stop pretending and either create some decent jobs for dumb people or give up on them.

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