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50 Years Since The March On Washington

It’s been a half century since the March on Washington.  We take stock of what we have—and have not—overcome.

Crowds are shown in front of the Washington Monument during the March on Washington for civil rights, August 28, 1963. (AP)

Crowds are shown in front of the Washington Monument during the March on Washington for civil rights, August 28, 1963. (AP)

Fifty years ago today on the National Mall in Washington DC, Americans made a powerful break with this country’s long and bitter racial history.  A quarter million people stretched out before the Lincoln Memorial and, by day’s end, heard Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.’s historic “I Have a Dream” speech – a speech and vision so powerful that it helped drive decades of change.

Fifty years later, where have we come on race and race relations in this country?

This hour, On Point:  half a century after the March on Washington, we look again at America and race.

- Tom Ashbrook

Guests

Brandon Terry, fellow in economics, history and politics at Harvard University.

Reniqua Allen, journalist and a fellow at the New America Foundation. (@rnz1)

Eduardo Bonilla-Silva, professor of sociology at Duke University. Author of “Racism Without Racists.”

From Tom’s Reading List

The Washington Post: How the March on Washington shaped the Mall – “On Wednesday, when Barack Obama joins former presidents Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter and members of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.’s family on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, it will mark the 50th anniversary of one of the city’s most iconic moments: a stirring speech, a monumental movement, a march that has since become known simply as the March on Washington, as participants asked the government to do better by African American citizens. It eclipses all other marches with its cast of thousands of activists and supporters.”

ABC News: On Race, Obama Tops Mountain But Blacks See More Peaks – “When Martin Luther King, Jr., shared his dream from the steps of the Lincoln Memorial in 1963, the president of the United States was not there to bear witness. John F. Kennedy was skeptical of the March on Washington, choosing to watch the event on TV from inside the White House several blocks away. He later clashed with King over the urgency for legislation to match the march’s message of ‘jobs and freedom.’”

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  • Ed75

    There has, of course, been a lot of progress. But the African American family today is weaker than it was in 1963, and that’s very bad.

    • HonestDebate1

      As Juan Williams said he other night, Martin Luther King Jr. would cry.

      • Ray in VT

        Considering the devastation that the War on Drugs has caused among the African American Community, where massive racial disparities continue to exist when comparing black/white drug usage and arrest rates:

        http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/06/04/the-blackwhite-marijuana-arrest-gap-in-nine-charts/

        and also considering how black offenders receive sentences somewhere around 10% longer than white offenders for the same crime:

        http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/race/news/2012/03/13/11351/the-top-10-most-startling-facts-about-people-of-color-and-criminal-justice-in-the-united-states/

        then I am sure that he would. Minorities have made a great deal of progress over the past 50 years, massive resistance be damned, but there’s still a ways to go to be sure.

        • HonestDebate1

          That’s an odd way to look at it.

          • Ray in VT

            Why?

          • HonestDebate1

            Because you seem to be conflating correlation and causation to assume institutionalized racism. Because of the astronomical increase in the single parent family percentage since MLK’s time. Because of the race hustlers judging by the color of skin instead of the content of character. Because of the horrendous black on black crime rates. Because of the 12% of the population committing half the violent crimes. Because of the language so many blacks use with impunity. Because Snoop Dog. Chief Keef and JayZee are held up as role models while Clarence Thomas, Condi Rice and Herman Cain are ridiculed. Because of the emphasis on victimization over education. Because of the soft bigotry of low expectations, to name a very few reasons. But we certainly agree that MLK would cry.

            Gotta go put up hay or I would expand on this, maybe later.

          • JobExperience

            Correlation and causation are scientific terms describing otherwise random events under conditions controlled for bias and predisposition. The prison industrial complex is a profit motivated industry based upon pre-existing capitalist patterns of exploitation as well as racial bigotry, and the emotional sadistic need to micromanage the lives of others (war on drugs). HD implies that selective enforcement and harsher sentencing of Blacks for drug offenses is warranted by the assumption that Black offenses are always worse than White offenses. That’s freeze dried racism. I wonder if it’s irradiated too. Herman Cain gives off toxic radiation. He’s a houseboy whose role was to keep fast food wages low. He was never a viable political candidate but only a clown thrown in for favorable comparison to the other idiots.

          • JobExperience

            The moderator likes this veiled racist rant. I can tell because my earlier colorful rebuttal was censored.

            In short, I asserted that Herman Cain and Condi Rice deserved to be ridiculed. Their race made it all the worse that they were in service to repressive institutions. He persecuted fast food labor and she apologized for 9/11 complicity/failures.Their apparent incompetence demeaned Blacks.
            That’s strategic tokenism.

          • J__o__h__n

            Clarence Thomas and Herman Cain should be ridiculed. Rice is smart and accomplished but she dropped the ball as NSA before 9/11.

          • J__o__h__n

            Without regard to the individual, president is a greater achievement than supreme court justice, secretary of state, or CEO. What is the reason so many whites ridicule Obama?

          • JobExperience

            He deceived us (his supporters) to serve Wall Street. Now he might get a new war going to feed the MIC.

          • J__o__h__n

            His critics from the left cite specifics and don’t engage racist language towards him.

          • fun bobby

            there are many reasons

          • Ray in VT

            So, black offenders getting arrested at 3 times the rate as white offenders when offense rate is roughly similar doesn’t have to do with race? I am fascinated to know what might be the answer there aside from race.

            I agree that there are other factors working against the black community from within and without, but issues such as the one that I mentioned are certainly valid.

          • HonestDebate1

            Regarding the pot arrest, I just don’t think the numbers are accurate regarding usage. Most people will lie about that. It’s probably worse on both sides.

            I would certainly think the generational fact that 73% of black kids being raised without fathers has an impact. I think the disproportionate number of dropouts in the black community is another. These dynamics breed trouble. The drug lifestyle is celebrated in the pop culture which affects all races but I think there is more of a reluctance to be straight and narrow in the black community because it’s not cool. It’s too white like. In some places like inner city Chicago there is little future for young blacks and tremendous pressure to join gangs and a life of lawlessness and drugs. I also think there are not enough positive role models demanding excellence. They are shunned. I think some segments may not understand the gravity of the situation and therefore are more reckless without regard to being caught.

            I’ve lived my life on the edge of decadence in the past and I have never been cut any slack from the law because I’m white. I certainly don’t think the answer (not that you suggested it) is to go light on anyone based race.

            I really can think of a whole host of other possibilities. Institutionalized racism is far down on the list. To the extent it exist, and I’m sure there are cases, I think it can go both ways with the white hispanic in Sanford as exhibit #1. Or the NBP voting fraud case. And please, I’m not trying to open a can of worms, I’m just saying the assumption that blacks are targeted unfairly is a bit of a simplistic view.

            Back to my original point I would add, I was quoting Juan Williams and he was referring to, and has written books about, the issues I mention.

          • Ray in VT

            What leads you to not believe those numbers? That you have preconceived notions to the contrary? You say that blacks are not targeted, but the data seem to show that when it comes to arrests and sentencing, they are certainly arrested at higher rates, convicted at higher rates and sentenced for longer periods of time than their white counterparts.

            It’s too white to be “straight and narrow”? I’m pretty sure that drug culture has been pretty prevalent in the white community since at least the hippies.

            Please compare the outcomes for the New Black Panthers with the treatment that the Minutemen got for harassing Latinos in 2006. The Panthers got punished more. Seems in line with the data that I cited earlier.

          • Ray in VT

            Also, I guess that because unintended pregnancies are such a problem in the African American community, then I guess that Dr. King’s praising of Planned Parenthood is more important now then ever.

          • HonestDebate1

            Southern Baptist preachers like King oppose abortion which disproportionately extinguishes blacks so I’m not sure I understand. Did He really ever praise PP? That’s news to me. Margaret Sanger was a flaming racist.

          • Ray in VT

            Yup. He did. He accepted their Margaret Sanger Award in 1966. What is there to not understand? I guess that only people like Strom Thurmond or Jesse Helms get to have a history of being flaming racists yet praised in modern times?

          • hennorama

            Debates Not, He – please define the term “race hustler.”

            Please show the show statistics demonstrating your false claim about “12% of the population [which is over 37 MILLION PEOPLE] committing half the violent crimes.

            That’s a lot of criminals there, pal. Where are they all?

          • Ray in VT

            I’m still waiting for a definition of “cultural decay”. I am also waiting for someone today to cite information from a white nationalist group. That’s always fun.

          • Ray in VT

            Also, you stated “Because of the 12% of the population committing half the violent crimes.” I assume that the 12% is the percentage of the American population that is black. If so, then what is your source for that 12% committing half the violent crimes, as results that I found did not suggest that.

          • HonestDebate1

            I stand corrected it’s closer to 13% and I should have said murders, not violent crimes. The numbers are from the FBI.

            Here’s 2011: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3

            The stats can be twisted 1000 ways but it’s a widely studied issue. There are all kinds of charts and analysis. I don’t intend to get bogged down in the minutia, I stand by it and if you can present evidence, or want to contend otherwise then that’s fine. It’s highly disproportionate any way you look at it. What does your research indicate?

          • Ray in VT

            Just checking, as that is far closer to the numbers that I found for all violent crimes.

          • HonestDebate1

            You are fast, I just added to my comment above for clarity.

          • Ray in VT

            I just happened that scroll down, and when I looked at it again it just didn’t seem right.

          • hennorama

            Debates Not, He – first, let me applaud you for writing “It’s highly disproportionate any way you look at it.”

            That more neutral language (“highly disproportionate”) allows for a reasonable discussion, as it does not make millions of people guilty by association. This is in marked contrast to your erroneous statement “Because of the 12% of the population committing half the violent crimes,” and other statements you’ve often made in the past.

            Similar language from you in the future might encourage a more open discussion, and might go a long way toward reducing the acrimony of the exchanges on these topics..

            Again, well done.

            That said, one must point out that the source you cited, “Expanded Homicide Data Table 3, Murder Offenders, by Age, Sex, and Race, 2011” shows the Percent distribution for “Black” offenders as 37.7%, which is not close to “half.”

            It is however, highly disproportionate, as you said.

        • fun bobby

          the war on drugs is the most obvious and destructive form of institutional racism we currently have

      • JobExperience

        If the FBI shot me in the head I’d cry too.

  • Wahoo_wa

    I think we have overcome the race issue only to be blind to the issue of class. What is truly class difference is blamed on racism and the words “racism” and “racist” get tossed around all too casually even when race is not a factor. The words “racism” and “racist” are used colloquially without regard for their definitions.

    • John Cedar

      Huh? You are correct that racism definition has been broadened to included nonsense and most accusations are often baseless. But class is not class if it is simply a look or behavior you choose.

      It is a big unbelievable assumption to say that Zimmerman would not have been suspicious of a white guy wondering around aimlessly in his neighborhood on a rainy night.

      You see the same type of lame attempts at labeling our justice system as racist using skewed statistics.

      You even hear our own POTUS assume he hears a car door get locked when he approached, not because he is a 6+ foot male but because he is black.

      • JobExperience

        Are you gonna market the new expanded Carowinds to people of color, or keep it as White as possible?

  • Shag_Wevera

    White flight and the death of cities like Detroit and Milwaukee shows that racism is alive and well in America. If people of means don’t want to live in a multicultural environment, they won’t. They’ll move away and take their tax base with them. Racism is a choice, maybe even a freedom, that can’t be taken away.

    • Wahoo_wa

      White flight is not racism or racist. Many ethnic groups, including blacks and gays for example, self segregate. That self segregation may have absolutely nothing to do with 1.a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race or 2. racial prejudice or discrimination. To say that it does is to promote an opinion based on few if any facts. I also think you are conflating class issues and race issue.

      • Shag_Wevera

        Then why do they call it WHITE flight?

        • thequietkid10

          Because for a number of reasons whites can afford to live in the suburbs.

      • Shag_Wevera

        BTW, I agree with you about class. I don’t think you can deny the element of race in white flight though.

  • toc1234

    sadly racism, real or perceived or conjured, is good business for liberals (example #1 would be msnbc). its good for turning out their base (a divisive ‘us vs them’ strategy)and its also good at making liberals themselves feel superior thus improving morale in their ranks. its also a good way to explain away inconvenient events like the implosion of cities like Detroit and Chicago (at least the south side) – i.e. it has nothing to do with the people who actually live in those areas, but rather it has everything to do w the people who don’t live in those areas anymore..
    Real racism should condemned but using racism as a strategy should be also.

    • J__o__h__n

      The Democratic party lost the South when it passed civil rights. How was that good for votes? Old white people vote at higher rates than blacks (even before the new wave of voting restrictions the Republicans are now free to pass). The Republican party has used all sorts of coded language to divide people racially. Racism is not a liberal conspiracy.

    • Fiscally_Responsible

      I hope that Al Sharpton reads your email. He’s the fastest draw in the west when it comes to attributing every problem that has ever plagued mankind to racism.

    • geraldfnord

      Shorter: don’t assume that your opponents are enemies motivated only by venality or will-to-power; they (like you, or I) might just be wrong…and the difference is important.

      Why assume bad faith, even if you are right (as I don’t believe, which is irrelevant) about there not being roughly as much racism as is generally held to be the case by advocates? I am willing to believe that most laissez-fairists actually believe that what they want would be best for the poor as well, even though I think that nonsense—but I start with the assumption that they are persons of good will who just happen to be wrong.

      Quite likely they are convicted in a point-of-view at least partially because it figuratively ‘pays their salaries’ (as Upton Sinclair opined), but not as a conscious attempt to do ill to advance themselves…to believe that classes some of your fellow-creatures with the notional demons, who (at least in the Christian reckoning) all know the True and the Good but work tirelessly to move us away from them. We should make the distinction because neither courtesy nor civility nor decency need be shown a demon, so mistaking another actual person for one is the origin of a multitude of evils, notable among which is ‘never listening to them because they might say something useful, disturbing, or usefully disturbing’.

  • Wahoo_wa

    Henry Lewis Gates Jr was arrested because he was breaking into a home (granted it was his own home) and refused to provide ID. Race-baiting the issue was not an admirable or appropriate reaction.

    • Jason Rich

      Agreed. There may have been some questions about who called in to the police in the first place – I would recognize my neighbors if they were coming to their doors. I do not really blame any one person involved in that – the police officer could have been a bit more understanding – but he was doing his job. Mr Gates could have been more polite and shown his ID, but he was tired and cranky after a long trip and not having his keys. The point is that it was an issue that could have been avoided by many ways that didn’t happen.

  • alsordi

    Congratulations America !!! After fifty years, most African-American families are dis-functional and still poor. And non-Africans have not done much better, in fact the American middle class is holding on by a thread. The income gap is greater than ever.

    And after 50 YEARS, the USA has turned into a militarized police state, spending its resources on waging treacherous multiple wars which have caused the rest of the world to hate, fear and distrust.

    CIVIL RIGHTS you say ?? The Federal Government has entrenched itself with comprehensive surveillance and storm-trooper like enforcement agencies.

    The next economic crisis is coming, very soon and it will be worse than the last. But this time, PUBLIC PROTEST and CIVIL UNREST is going to be greeted, not with water cannons, but with hobnail boots, rubber bullets, tazers, and media blackouts. US industry, like its mentor, Israel, is a leader in repression technology, and tens, perhaps hundreds of thousands of activists will be incarcerated.

    And of course the Hamptons are circling their wagons, and the top 5% of the USA, of Bankers, Hedgefunds, Media Execs, Defense Contractor Execs, and politicos with their Federal GS umpteens will protect their bloated wealth.

    • fun bobby

      being in the top 5% is not that great

  • toc1234

    subtle, nuanced, complicated, invisible… these are the ways the guests describe racism today… and it almost like they get defensive that its not so overt these days… as if their raison d’etre is being challenged…

    • StilllHere

      It’s a cottage industry, see Sharpton and Jackson.

      • Ray in VT

        Like the conservative outrage industry?

        • J__o__h__n

          Every year it seems like the War on Christmas starts earlier and earlier.

          • Ray in VT

            I’m pretty sure that it is a year-round event now.

          • JobExperience

            Halloween and Thanksgiving are in their coffins getting a stake through the heart too.
            Is that bad? We can’t be sure. Maybe all rituals are self-suffocating under Capitalism. I’m wearing watermelon teeth as I type and growling like Frankenstein.
            Watermelon is excellent for breakfast, no matter your color. Mine was yellow and seedless.

          • Ray in VT

            I just don’t understand why people need or want Halloween or Thanksgiving cards. Damn you Hallmark!!

          • geraldfnord

            I remember when they _didn’t_ start the War on Christmas just after they took down the rhetorical decorations they used for the War on Hallloween.

        • jefe68

          They seem to be on the forum almost everyday.

          • Ray in VT

            Well, you know, nobody is as oppressed in this country as the white, conservative, Christian male.

      • JobExperience

        So fascists are borrowing concepts from Norman Finkelstein: (cottage industry) Facinating. There’s also an Evangelical Feminism being publicized now. (Concerned Women for America) But these adaptations are dictated from above and can hardly contain their contradictions. Relatively unoppressed people and oppressors claiming victimhood while disrespecting legitimate movements is an old Nazi tactic. Ask these people to draw the ones they hate and you’ll see what I mean. Deformed monstrosities originate in the hateful mind.

        • StilllHere

          You should know.

          • JobExperience

            No mirrors in your house

          • jefe68

            This guy is a troll. We should all ignore him.

  • JobExperience

    Racism’s endurance results from our failure to integrate in housing, church and the workplace. It’s harder to put down someone who’s in the same shoes as yourself financially and socially. People might do better if the 1% were not using minor ethnic and cultural differences to divide and conquer.

  • Yar

    The caller Bob, hit the nail on the head.
    I watched “The Butler” Sunday night. In the opening scene a black man was shot in the middle of a cotton field in front of his child by a white man who had just raped the man’s wife. The story is about the life of that child.Have we come a long way from those days?
    In many ways we have simply pushed economic slavery off shore, we still are not a nation which treats everyone equally. Picking cotton is gruelling hard work, we have equipment that will do the work of hundreds of workers. So, why is most cotton in the world still picked by hand? Look at the clothes you have on right now. Whose labor provided the fiber, and what do you think they were paid? This is only one example, every aspect of our existence is on the blood and sweat of others most often at slave wages. What is the meaning of a fair wage in global economics? Why are we still arguing about healthcare, retirement, education, and the need for living wage?

    • JobExperience

      Yar has demonstrated how instructive it can be to get off on a tangential topic. Staying strictly on point can be crippling.

      • Yar

        Many white people are looking for a return to the Garden of Eden. A willing ignorance of what it takes to have food and unable to see their own nakedness. Many are already there, they don’t know where their food comes from, or who makes their clothes. When we stand before God, what will we hide behind?

        • JobExperience

          You’re right: Food and clothes come from WalMart and Costco. They even take kindergardeners on fieldtrips to demonstrate how well retail corporate capitalism works. Target is like the Big Rock Candy Mountain. Talk about entitled!

          When Ira Glass crucified Mike Daisy I knew he’d sold out. Now he’s all business. “This American Life” is doomed.

          • J__o__h__n

            Mike Daisy lied. He had a compelling story but he wasn’t content to just present facts.

          • JobExperience

            He’s a comedian and performance artist, not a reporter. It was Ira’s fail, and he put the stink on Mike.

          • J__o__h__n

            No, he asked him repeatedly if it was factual before they aired it.

          • jefe68

            Interesting you mention Costco and Walmart. Walmart pays lousy wages with little to no benefits. Costco pays it’s employees living wages with good benefits. Costco he leaving Walmart in the dust in terms of worker job satisfaction and costumer satisfaction with the shopping experience.

            CEO, Craig Jelinek earned $650,000 in 2012, plus a $200,000 bonus and stock options worth about $4 million, based on the company’s performance. By contrast, Walmart CEO Mike Duke’s 2012 base salary was $1.3 million; he was also awarded a $4.4 million cash bonus and $13.6 million in stock grants.

            One can clearly see why the Costco model is working well and in my opinion is the model to help the middle class grow and the Walmart model is not working, especially for it’s workers.

    • geraldfnord

      > we still are not a nation which treats everyone equally
      We have never attempted to be such: we have always been committed to the proposition that those more able, those more industrious, those more lucky, and those more predatory deserve to do better—and, in fact, better to any extent possible, that those not.

      As you should be able to see from my list, which is different from that of many, I am a cheerleader neither for or against these all, taken as a whole and with no amendment or amelioration. If we don’t reward the activities that get things done and help (or at least, could help) everyone, fewer of them will happen; if we say that a new-born Koch or Soros fully deserves all the advantages such will have over J. Random Poor Baby, we are monnstrous—and if we say that that babe and its family deserve to starve in the midst of plenty because they are unable to play our games adequately, we are not only monsters but stupid monsters. (Why ‘stupid’?—as most of us can end up in that state—you are likely one ruinous tort or one bad cerebral vascular accident away from utter poverty and inability to do anything much about it—not seeing to the poorest among us is acting as if you were a member of some Elect who could never descend from that level, and that’s not how it works.)

  • Eric Herot

    Tom, tell your guest not to generalize about what white people think. As a white person I believe systemic racism is indeed alive and well in the United States, and that it goes far beyond overt prejudice public policy. I believe that in terms of who is on what side, this is a conservative/liberal issue. Not a while/black issue.

  • J__o__h__n

    Who watches network television?

  • toc1234

    Good Lord, it obvious this lady can’t give an inch b/c that would challenge the veracity of her job/studies.

  • alsordi

    As Detroit and other US cities deteriorate and shrink, the shining new spacious Israeli settlements expand into Palestinian lands.

    These Israeli settlements, would not be possible without the billions of US aid, and the TRILLION plus $$$$ US tax dollars, diverted from social services and economic improvement in the USA, but spent along with US lives, on defusing Israel’s enemies in the region one after the other.

  • ChevSm

    I would add 2 articles to Tom’s reading list:

    1 – White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack
    by Peggy McIntosh

    2- The Gardener’s Tale

    by Camara Jones

  • rich4321

    Give me a break. This so called “Diversity” is BS. I am a Chinese American, I get craps from all sides, I was call racial epithet at work or in daily life. I have no arguments with anyone- black, white, gay…

  • Wahoo_wa

    Some of this is clearly the politics of victimhood and blame.

    • StilllHere

      Some, the majority.

  • originalname37

    I don’t think it’s entirely fair to say that talking about a neighborhood in terms of crime is code for race. I’m black and there are plenty of neighborhoods in which I would not want to live due to crime, bad schools, noisy streets, etc.

  • Jim

    Do you think I don’t see racism in Boston? Our racism is in the form of GENTRIFICATION.

    • fun bobby

      where as in NYC its just police anti Semitism

      http://news.msn.com/us/nypds-massive-mosque-spying-operations-revealed

    • thequietkid10

      For god’s sake, white people leave the city and Shag_Wevera calls it “white flight” and suggest it’s racially motivated. When white people return to the city, you call it gentrification and suggest it is racism?

      WHAT DO YOU PEOPLE WANT FROM US?

      • Jim

        equality + cash would do.

  • Eric Herot

    If the problem is that proportionally so many black people are poor it logically follows that, all issues of racism aside (for the moment), this problem cannot be solved without fixing the income mobility problem. When fixing this problem, there is no point to making it a race-related issue. We need to fix the income mobility problems across the whole racial spectrum. It stands to reason that, if this problem were solved, blacks would benefit greatly as well as whites, latinos, native americans, etc..

    • OnPointComments

      How much of the income mobility problem would be solved if everyone followed the advice of Juan Williams:

      The road to success is plain as day.

      1. Stay in school and graduate from the highest level of school

      2. Take a job and hold it

      3. Marry after you have finished your education

      4. Don’t have children until you are 21-years-old and married.

      • Eric Herot

        Great idea, except that it’s much easier said than done.

        1. In our country, it’s pretty unlikely that you’ll pass enough classes in order to graduate high school (let alone college) if you have little or no educational support from home, as so many poor folks don’t.

        2. Great idea if you can find one. And even if you can find one, if it doesn’t pay enough to keep you from needing to live off of government subsidies and doesn’t allow you to save any money, what good is it going to do?

        3. Do you really think there are a lot of people out there who have suitable partners that they are choosing not to marry? Relationship stability comes from financial stability (people get along a lot better when they don’t have to worry about money all of the time), not the other way around.

        4. Also a great idea, but for people to follow this advice they need to feel like they have something to hold out for. If someone can’t even manage to graduate from high school it’s a bit hard to see why they’d want to wait to have a kid. Of course it would also help if we made contraception cheap/free and accessible (Obamacare does this).

        • OnPointComments

          Everything is always easier said than done. No one ever said that the road to success is the easiest road.

          • Eric Herot

            But if these things are so hard to do now that very few people in our country can even do them, then something needs to change, and we need to do more than just tell people to “work harder” because clearly that isn’t enough.

          • fun bobby

            they are really not that hard if you try

          • StilllHere

            All 3 and 4 require is inaction, so that energy can be focused on 1 and 2.

          • Eric Herot

            They’re actually quite impossible for many people, as is evidenced by the fact that, in the United States, it is now almost guaranteed that if you are born into poverty, you will live your whole life in poverty.

          • OnPointComments

            The four items that Juan Williams listed are all matters of personal responsibility and self-discipline. None of them can be given to a person or mandated by law.

          • Eric Herot

            There are a LOT of things we can (and need to) do with law that help:

            1. Improve the quality of teaching education; provide free early childhood education to everyone; make state colleges basically free again AND provide stipends for textbooks

            2. Rebuild our roads, bridges, and train systems (this creates jobs!)

            3. Fix the other 3 problems and this will fix itself

            4. Make contraception free, make sex ed classes informative, and take care of #1 and #2 and this problem will also take care of itself to a large extent (people who are gainfully enrolled in school or employed are a lot less likely to get pregnant before they’re ready to raise a child).

        • fun bobby

          did you drop out, quit working, and have kids young out of wedlock?

          • Eric Herot

            No…what does that have to do with anything?

          • fun bobby

            it must not be that hard then

          • Eric Herot

            I come from a household with two college educated parents and a household income of over $150k/year. People with backgrounds like mine don’t need much help and we shouldn’t be getting much (unfortunately, most education spending nationwide is on people like me). If our country is set up to only let people with upbringings like mine succeed then we have a *real* problem.

      • StilllHere

        It would be great if the government wasn’t encouraging the opposite of self-restraint and self-responsibility.

      • geraldfnord

        Shorter: What people _should_ do is a matter of individual responsibility, but what people _will_ do is a matter of a little of that mixed with a lot of pre-existing incentive structures and views of the world that can easily supervene. Expect good behaviour only if you make it at least a little easier than bad.

        The problem is that for centuries African-Americans were either forbidden from taking that course of action or not rewarded for it when they did…in fact, periods in which black Americans did hunker down and begin to do better—most notably the turn of the century and post-WWII—were followed by a quick ramp-up of legal restriction and/or plain old searing violence. As Martin L. King II opined when he came out in favour of what would later be called ‘affirmative action’, when you’ve made the playing-field unequal for a very long time, acting as if it were level is wrong.

        Of course individuals now have a better chance of following the above…but, really, an equal chance? And even if that were the case: though without individual responsibility society falls apart, it’s madness to expect it to override all or even most of the time—in talking about large numbers of people the extant setup may generate most of your mean and median behaviours. There were white men who tried to act decently during Jim Crow, but we couldn’t expect to end Jim Crow by decent individual action…and we made it as hard as possible for a white man to act decently then, so I don’t much fault those who did not, if they were not possessed of any especial viciousness. Similarly, I don’t much fault a young man who wishes to better himself who sees of the choices presented to him the choice of ‘not particularly evil drugs-dealer’ as best, and the odds are higher that he and his girlfriend will not take proper precautions to protect their futures if they don’t really believe they have futures worth protection.

        Mice given bare cages hit the cocaine lever until they’re exhausted; genetically identical mice raised with other mice in an enfriched environment hit it every couple of hours if that…and we can track the hormonal differences between the two Mice are not men—men, for example, seldom get free cocaine*—but we are both beings with bodies and minds that are largely creatures of society…in the main, regardless of those few who are exceptional, since they are by definition exceptions.

        *Women tend to pay a high price for it if it’s free.

        • fun bobby

          legalize cocaine!

  • bethrjacobs

    these people are morons Latino according to the census is an ethnic group not race

    Race Main

    What is Race?

    The data on race were derived from answers to the question on race that was asked of individuals in the United States. The Census Bureau collects racial data in accordance with guidelines provided by the U.S. Office of Management and Budget (OMB), and these data are based on self-identification.

    The racial categories included in the census questionnaire generally reflect a social definition of race recognized in this country and not an attempt to define race biologically, anthropologically, or genetically. In addition, it is recognized that the categories of the race item include racial and national origin or sociocultural groups. People may choose to report more than one race to indicate their racial mixture, such as “American Indian” and “White.” People who identify their origin as Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish may be of any race.

    OMB requires five minimum categories: White, Black or African American, American Indian or Alaska Native, Asian, and Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander.

    For the OMB definitions of these categories, please click on the “About Race” tab above

  • Barbara Moore

    I”m a white person who feels that our contemporary polarized politics maps perfectly onto issues of racism, hidden under discussions about “government programs”, “urban” problems, “crime”, “increasing income inequality” etc. How come poor and blue-collar white people tend to vote against their economic self-interest and with conservatives and to be enthusiastic about “smaller government”? How come the only past and present US presidents taking part in today’s anniversary commemoration are Democrats?

    • fun bobby

      because Kennebunkport is awesome in the late summer?

    • StilllHere

      Both have health issues, but feel free to go ahead with some baseless conspiracy theory.

      • JobExperience

        And I thought those private asylums were an artifact of the 19th Century.

        • StilllHere

          You’ve made clear that the state ones have internet access.

  • Coastghost

    I am not animated with the same implicit trust in self-evidences that animated Jefferson or King, so it is neither too early nor too late to ask plainly, specifically, and explicitly: what is “equality”? is it an actually attainable goal or is it as vacuous and empty a notion as “progress”?

    • JobExperience

      equality under the law,, not penis length

    • OnPointComments

      One person’s opinion, with which I agree.

      “HOW DO YOU PROMOTE EQUALITY WHEN WE’RE NOT ALL EQUAL?”

      http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/how-do-you-promote-equality-when-were-not-all-equal/

      Excerpt (emphasis added):

      Some people make good choices, some make poor choices. If a meritocracy is what we want, we will have to accept some inequality, because not everybody is going to merit the same outcomes.

      Here’s a simple truth: The government cannot create equality of outcome. The government can, and should, protect equality of opportunity, but policies aimed at equality of outcome do not create equality. They redistribute inequality.

      Unless the government restricts our ability to make choices for ourselves – and believe you me, there are people pushing for this approach all the time – we’re going to have to accept that some people will make bad choices, and those bad choices will result in inequality.

      The best we can do is allow free people to make free choices, and ensure that those making the choices feel the consequences both good and bad.

  • fun bobby

    in NYC seems like they have regressed to an totalitarian racist regime between stop and frisk and this:

    http://news.msn.com/us/nypds-massive-mosque-spying-operations-revealed

    • JobExperience

      Some are closet homophobes who like to grope.

      • fun bobby

        What about the TSA? they are not all in the closet, some have come out

  • Casey Reyner

    During the time of slavery, and the years after it ended, one thing poor whites clung to was the idea that they were better than blacks. This current increasing economic inequality is causing a resurgence in this sort of sentiment. I agree racism still exists, but I feel that the economic inequality causes people to cling more tightly to what they have and look for any reason to differ themselves from others and race is the easiest thing to grab and manipulate people with.

  • tgafal73

    You really need to screen callers better. When a caller start ranting about FBI conspiracies / assassinations, it’s really hard to take the rest of the program seriously.

    • StilllHere

      The same screens should be applied to the guests.

      • J__o__h__n

        No more nuts from the Heritage Foundation!

        • StilllHere

          You can lead a horse to water…

          • J__o__h__n

            You like their ideas like Romneycare?

          • JobExperience

            Chock Full O’nuts Coffee is a misnomer.
            There’s some coffee in there.
            Add cream and sugar and you have the two party system. The Navajo call it muddy water.

          • Ray in VT

            and Heritage can probably convince that horse that the Kool-Aid is water.

          • StilllHere

            Kool-Aid is mostly water and comes in lots of flavors.

          • Ray in VT

            People are also mostly water and come in lots of flavors, at least if the good people at Soylent Cola are to be believed on the latter point.

          • JobExperience

            So what is that? Octogenarian urine?
            Sundrop? Crystal Light in heavy water?
            Carleton Heston’s vital essence?

          • Ray in VT

            That Heritage is trying to pass off? Maybe. There’s also some good stuff coming out of Pat Robertson these days. Did you see his recent AIDS comments?

          • fun bobby

            what did Dr Robertson say now? god bless him

          • Ray in VT

            If there is a God, I sure hope that it is not individuals who preach things of his nature that get blessed. Here is what he said:

            “You know what they do in San Francisco? Some in the gay community
            there, they want to get people. So if they got the stuff they’ll have a
            ring, you shake hands and the ring’s got a little thing where you cut
            your finger,” he said. “Really. It’s that kind of vicious stuff, which
            would be the equivalent of murder.”

            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/27/pat-robertson-aids-rings_n_3824401.html

          • JobExperience

            Then he held up his pinkie to the camera, with a bandaid.

          • fun bobby

            if? God blesses everyone who asks him to.

            “Although we trust in the Lord to save us we kindly request the finder of this letter to light three fires on the beach and stand guard at these behind the dunes, should the ship run aground, so that the slaves may not become aware that this is a Christian country. They will certainly kill us if they establish that we made them believe that this is their country”

            Olof Leij

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meermin
            say what you will about Dr Robertson but at least he has not been afraid to speak out against the evils of drug prohibition

          • JobExperience

            Conspiracy Version:

            He said Jack Van Impe is going to shoot Ted Nugent for giving Rexella HIV.

            (Nugent and Van Impe are next door neighbors, like Ozzie and Corny.)

            Nugent and an FBI informant are approaching
            Virginia Beach in a semi as we speak, locked and loaded, like BJ and the Bear.
            Nugent is singing the pre-emption song.

          • J__o__h__n

            I love watching them. Their interpretation of the news is great.

          • JobExperience

            Harriet’s cigarette kept setting the newsprint on fire so Oz had to go get Corny to help. Rick and Dave did the “o-o-oh Jack!” part in falsetto. It’s all over YouTube. Viral as Hell.

          • fun bobby

            sorry I asked

          • JobExperience

            Did she say yes?

          • JobExperience

            Heritage markets a carbonater machine to fizz lies. It contributes to Climate Change.

          • JobExperience

            You can totally hose them.

          • Ray in VT

            Big government stole people’s freedom to fire hose them years ago.

      • jefe68

        Don’t listen to the show. If you don’t like it turn it off. You come on this forum spewing your garbage and making inane comments, you’re not interested in the topic at all. That’s clear to see.

        • JobExperience

          Pennsylvania closed their dumps to him and he lacks the gas to get to India,, so he comes here.

        • fun bobby

          if he pays taxes for it he should listen. like how my taxes go to subsidize walmart so I shop there

          • JobExperience

            You’re joking that he pledges NPR?
            Less than 10% Fed supported, with sequestration, even less.

          • fun bobby

            not all of walmarts profit is from employing subsidized workers. perhaps he only listens 10% of the time

          • JobExperience

            One ear cocked… hearing aide off.
            Walmart profits from many government tax breaks and incentives that dwarf all of CPB. Look for the screen names Pat Robertson and Jack Van Impe later this week. I got dibs on Rexella.

          • fun bobby

            that’s why its more important for people to shop at walmart than listen to NPR

    • JobExperience

      Some theories about cover-ups have recently been proven true by whistleblowers. Maybe that causes your panic. More stuff is gonna come out. On Point can’t stop it.

    • jefe68

      That happens with both the right and the left. The conspiracy theorist are out there. That said the FBI did do some pretty weird things in the 50′s and 60′s in terms of spying on the Civil Rights leaders such as MLK.
      It’s well known that J Edgar Hoover was obsessed with bringing down Martin Luther King.

      • Ray in VT

        I find belief in what can broadly termed to be conspiracy theories to be really fascinating. True, some turn out to have a basis, but some are just plain nuts. Then there is the persistence of belief in things like the Earth being flat or it being at the center of the solar system. Those aren’t really conspiracy theories, but they are another sort of weird belief.

      • JobExperience

        What is the FBI up to… right this minute?

        • jefe68

          Who knows. The Hoover FBI was a different animal than it is today, but I’m sure they are snooping on a lot of Americans deemed subversive by them.

          • JobExperience

            Remember in the Sopranos and The Wire when the Bureau lost interest in gangstas, to go and chase Muslims? Now they lost interest in terrorism to chase dissidents and leakers. It resembles the Stazi more each decade. Expect more Palmer raids, this time at the League of Women Voters and the Sierra Club.

            The groundstanders won’t get a shot off at Trayvon before they drone him.

          • StilllHere

            Same for Chris and Shorty.

        • fun bobby

          they know what you are up to

          • JobExperience

            I’m flattered

    • fun bobby
      • Ray in VT

        I was thinking more along the lines of “the FBI killed MLK” or “the moon landing was faked”.

        • JobExperience

          The FBI is implicated, but the Moon is not cheese.

        • fun bobby

          how are we supposed to know which are real when they always lie either way?

          • JobExperience

            Ah, very good. Noam Chosky uncovered (FOA) a CIA directive that “they” leak a little more about the JFK assassination every year to keep speculation going. Maybe it was to boost their street creds, or maybe it was to divert attention from ghastly current misdeeds. Anyway, in the show “Lone Gunman” they predicted 9/11. Didn’t faze the spooks. They just kept wiring the towers. Most all skyscrapers are now built with thermite and plastique embedded to lower the costs of demolishing white elephants. White elephants and RINOs don’t care.

  • OMA_OPINES

    Perhaps there is not enough discussion of “content of character”. How is a person’s character formed? This has been studied and talked about for centuries but the role of the home environment almost always comes out as having a huge influence. Role-modeling, limit setting, good conversation, how to make good choices – LOVE. Yet for many, being a single mom is a badge of honor even though that good mom may be working two jobs, etc. to provide for her kids which leaves children kind of “on their own” a lot of the time. This can make them more vulnerable to the negative role modeling predators that, all too often, hang out in their neighborhoods.
    The STATE can and must insure justice to all of its citizens and there is a long way to go, BUT when every judgment against a person of color is blamed on racism, we take ten steps back. Cannot a person of color be a BAD PERSON? Assuming that no person of color is actually guilty of anything is just as racist as anything coming from Fox News.
    Thank God for the programs (faith-based and other) that ARE working to support growing GOOD people. Much more needed

    • JobExperience

      Stress shrinks the brain and cultural enrichment induces brain development and growth. There are theories that endorphin trauma impairments reappear in subsequent alternating human generations. Add this to handicaps imposed by economic injustice and discrimination and you have the large pizza the 1% ordered.

    • anamaria23

      Very well said. Where are the men who fathered these children who end up on the streets of any color.? They are invisible and not held to account by the government, the churches or society at large.
      There are way, way too many single mothers who cannot possibly do it all.
      The desertion by fathers contributes greatly to any child’s deprivation when the mother must be absent also to support.

      • JobExperience

        Artificial insemination. Hunt down them turkey basters, and garnish they wages.

  • Ray in VT

    What do people make of this statement:

    “Placing undue emphasis on our ‘separateness’ is a step backward. Bring back the melting pot. There is nothing wrong with people being proud of their different heritages. We have a long tradition of folks from all different backgrounds incorporating their traditions into the American experience, but we must resist the politically correct trend of changing the melting pot into a salad bowl.”

    I can see both positive and negative elements to such a vision and what such a vision would seem to expect from some people. Does anyone know who said it without looking it up? Just curious.

    • hennorama

      Ray in VT – my guess would be a Republican trying to analyze recent election outcomes, and probably someone who is not a white male.

      I’m certain it was not Pat Buchanan.

      I’m also certain it wasn’t the head of the RNC, whose name is a struggle for me to both pronounce and type.

      Definitely not anyone born in Canada, or a former Alaskan governor.

      Probably not anyone employed by Fox News.

      Senator Cruz? Governor Jindal?

      • Ray in VT

        Good guesses, although “definitely not anyone born in Canada” does rule out Ted Cruz.

        • hennorama

          ACK! I meant “Senator Rubio,” not Senator Cruz. Sheesh. I guess thinking about the name of the head of the RNC scrambled the synapses a bit more than usual.

          I shall edit forthwith.

          • fun bobby

            you’re fired

          • Ray in VT

            It wasn’t The Donald.

          • hennorama

            settle down there, Mr. Trump. ;-)

          • Ray in VT

            Does Senator Rubio also claim to be born in the United States? ;) I wonder what those who were claiming that Obama is not a natural born citizen because his father was from Kenya have to say about these two gentlemen. Perhaps we will continue to be entertained by that select group of nut jobs for another few years.

          • hennorama

            And don’t forget Sen. John McCain, who was born in Panama. That nonsense that he was not a “natural-born citizen” was entertaining to watch in the lead up to the 2008 elections as well.

  • fun bobby

    lets end the racist war on drugs that tears apart poor families in America every day

    • StilllHere

      It’s not racist. Drugs of all colors are treated equally.

      • Ray in VT

        The darker ones get stiffer sentences. Excedrin almost always just gets community service.

        • fun bobby

          and everyone always forgets about the nuprin

          • JobExperience

            CVS bought the brand, and now only they can sell it. It’s ibuprofen, pretty available under other names.

          • fun bobby

            it was a euphamism

        • JobExperience

          Wall Street is eaten up with Adderall, says DWTV.

      • fun bobby

        nonsense.

    • JobExperience

      Holder is giving lip service.

      • fun bobby

        he should put his money where his lips are

        • JobExperience

          or put the rolled Franklin up his nose.

          This guy lied bout spying.
          He don’t care.

          • fun bobby

            if he is anything like his buddy Obama then he has had plenty of rolled up currency in contact with his nose

          • JobExperience

            Mean Mister Mustard!

  • Coastghost

    “On Point” moderators no longer manage discourse: they inhibit discourse. Privileging “tolerance” to the exclusion of “candor” is hardly a tolerant practice, you odious censors.

    • JobExperience

      It’s an etiquette problem.
      Pretensious people cut meat right handed and then switch the fork and knife between hands before skewering a bite.

      We posters cram the sandwich in and hold the iced cup of coke at the ready, chewing with mouths open.

      Old ladies tweet the f-word while

      Moderators still use the style books colleges recommended in the 80s.
      Diane Rehm has it all wrong: You can be crude but still listen and respond logically. Tom just talks over and censors the embarrassing (to him) stuff. We’ll never produce Shakespeare the way moderation is going.

      • Coastghost

        All I did was question the self-evident understanding of “equality” and that got tossed out rudely: so much for the practice of intellectual honesty in the self-regarding “intellectual capital of the US”. (Looking afresh, I see my earlier post has been restored: but for how long? until when?)

        • JobExperience

          If you don’t lower your inside voice….
          maybe try Truthdig.

          I took your point.

        • fun bobby

          once we are all treated badly all the time then we will have equality.

          • JobExperience

            Then we’ll have Treblinka.

  • hennorama

    As President Obama said in part, on July 19th, 2013

    “The African-American community is also knowledgeable that there is a history of racial disparities in the application of our criminal laws, everything from the death penalty to enforcement of our drug laws. And that ends up having an impact in terms of how people interpret the case.

    “Now, this isn’t to say that the African-American community is naive about the fact that African-American young men are disproportionately involved in the criminal justice system, that they’re disproportionately both victims and perpetrators of violence. It’s not to make excuses for that fact.

    “Although, black folks do interpret the reasons for that in a historical context. They understand that, some of the violence that takes place in poor black neighborhoods around the country is born out of a very violent past in this country. And that the poverty and dysfunction that we see in those communities can be traced to a very difficult history.

    “And so, the fact that sometimes that’s unacknowledged adds to the frustration. And the fact that a lot of African-American boys are painted with a broad brush and the excuse is given, “Well, there are these statistics out there that show that African-American boys are more violent,” using that as an excuse to then see sons treated differently causes pain.

    AND, in closing, the President said,

    “And then, finally, I think it’s going to be important for all of us to do some soul-searching. You know, there’s been talk about, should we convene a conversation on race? I haven’t seen that be particularly productive when, you know, politicians try to organize conversations. They end up being stilted and politicized, and folks are locked into the positions they already have.

    “On the other hand, in families and churches and workplaces, there’s a possibility that people are a little bit more honest and at least you ask yourself your own questions about, am I wringing as much bias out of myself as I can? Am I judging people as much as I can based on not the color of their skin, but the content of their character? That would, I think, be an appropriate exercise in the wake of this tragedy.

    “And let me just leave you with – with the final thought that, as difficult and challenging as this whole episode has been for a lot of people, I don’t want us to lose sight that things are getting better. Each successive generation seems to be making progress in changing attitudes when it comes to race. It doesn’t mean we’re in a post-racial society. It doesn’t mean that racism is eliminated.

    “But, you know, when I talk to Malia and Sasha and I listen to their friends and I see them interact, they’re better than we are. They’re better than we were on these issues. And that’s true in every community that I’ve visited all across the country. And so, you know, we have to be vigilant. And we have to work on these issues. And those of us in authority should be doing everything we can to encourage the better angels of our – nature as opposed to using these episodes to heighten divisions.

    “But we should also have confidence that kids these days, I think, have more sense than we did back then and certainly more than our parents did or our grandparents did, and that along this long and difficult journey, you know, we’re becoming a more perfect union, not a perfect union, but a more perfect union.

    Source:

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/07/19/full-remarks-obama-speaks-on-race/

    I personally am left with these words echoing in my mind:

    “… we have to work on these issues … and … should be doing everything we can to encourage the better angels of our nature, as opposed to using these episodes to heighten divisions.

    “… we should also have confidence that kids these days … have more sense than we did back then and certainly more than our parents did or our grandparents did, and that along this long and difficult journey, you know, we’re becoming a more perfect union, not a perfect union, but a more perfect union.”

    Please allow a smaller idea for our “a little bit more honest” forum:

    Practice some Otherly Love.

    Everyone can step outside their routine and their comfort zone when they feel safe. My suggestion to everyone is to extend yourself a tiny bit while you’re in a safe environment. Reach out to “the other.” Greet and meet someone new, someone who doesn’t look like you, act like you, talk like you, dress like you.

    Turn “the other” into “the teeny bit more familiar.” Turn “them” into “kinda like me.”

    Practice some Otherly Love.

    President Obama’s last words still echo in my mind – “…along this long, difficult journey, we’re becoming a more perfect union — not a perfect union, but a more perfect union.”

    Contribute to a more perfect union, one union at a time.

    • Ray in VT

      But why must the President make excuses for black people and race-bait, which is all that I can take from those comments. ;)

      • JobExperience

        He’s stalling. He’s soliciting library money.
        He ain’t no Jimmuh Carter. The Palestinians are a test he can’t pass. Empire is imploding.

  • TomK_in_Boston

    Ironic to have all this 50′th anniversary stuff while the red states are gearing up for voter suppression following the gutting of the VRA by the activist far right supreme court. It follows the general trend of the oligarchs dragging us back in time so all the old battles will have to be re-fought by our kids and grandkids.

    • JobExperience

      Insightful. It’s a diversion.

  • RonShirtz

    I listen to one guest mention the great economic inequality of those born in Black households versus others, and is attributed to racism that hold them down from opportunities in society.

    What was not said was that 72 percent of black women have children out of wedlock, a dramatic increase since the days of MLK, who would have been appalled at such statistics.

    It is obvious that single parent families, regardless of race, are going to have a significant handicap in the job market or having financial equality due to that situation, regardless of any covert racism.

    • JobExperience

      All out of wedlock births are up. Wages are too low and unemployment too high for marriage. The nuke Family is a unit of extraction these days.

      • TomK_in_Boston

        A basic class warfare tactic is to bust the poor and the middle class, and then blame them for the results. Recent example, wall st crashed the economy, offshored the jobs and redistributed all the income to the top, and now they’re up in arms over increased use of food stamps.

    • hennorama

      RonShirtz – One needs to be careful about statistics.

      It’s not that “72 percent of black women have children out of wedlock,” but rather, per the CDC and for 2010, “The proportion of nonmarital births was 72 percent for non-Hispanic black women.” That’s far different than what you wrote.

      BTW, it was 53 percent for Hispanic women, and 66 percent for AIAN [American Indian or Alaska Native] women.

      “In 2011, 40.7 percent of all births were to unmarried women. This level compares with 33.2 percent in 2000 and 18.4 percent in 1980 (Table C). Within age groups, 89 percent of births to teenagers and 64 percent of births to women aged 20-24 were nonmarital. More than one in five births to women aged 30 and older were to unmarried women. The proportions of nonmarital births vary widely among population groups. In 2011, these proportions were 17 percent for Asian/Pacific Islander, 29 percent for non-Hispanic white, 53 percent for Hispanic, 66 percent for American Indian/Alaska native, and 72 percent for non-Hispanic black births. These proportions were essentially unchanged from 2010.A recent analysis of data from the 2006-2010 National Survey of Family Growth documented steady increases in the proportions of nonmarital births that were to women in cohabiting relationships [27]. Nearly three in five (58 percent) nonmarital births in 2006-2010 were to cohabiting women, double the proportion in 1980-84 (29 percent) [27,28].“

      The National Vital Statistics Reports “Births: Final Data for 2010” indicated that there is trend is toward unmarried parents who are in “cohabiting relationships,” which implies greater involvement of fathers.

      “A recent analysis of data from the 2006–2010 NSFG documented steady increases in the proportions of nonmarital births to women in cohabiting relationships, rising from 29 percent of births in 1980–1984, to

      40 percent in 1998–2002, and 58 percent in 2006–2010.

      See:

      http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_01.pdf (page 8)

      http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr62/nvsr62_01.pdf (pages 11 & 12)

      There is also a trend toward a greater percentage of women in the U.S. who go through their childbearing years without ever giving birth. This trend has been observed in multiple racial and ethnic groups of women.

      “By race and ethnic group, white women are most likely not to have borne a child. But during the past decade, childless rates have risen more rapidly for black, Hispanic and Asian women, so the racial gap has narrowed.

      “One in five (20%) white women ages 40-44 was childless in 2008, the highest rate among racial and ethnic groups. By comparison, 17% of black and Hispanic women were childless in 2008, and 16% of Asian women were childless. Between 1994 and 2008, the childlessness rates for black women and for Hispanic women grew by more than 30%. The rate for white women increased only 11%.”

      See:

      http://www.marketingcharts.com/wp/topics/behavioral-marketing/18-of-us-women-do-not-give-birth-13378/

  • fun bobby

    we need some way to differentiate African americans who come from families who have been oppressed in America for generations from those whose families came here recently to benefit from our freedom and equality. Obama pretends like he is the former but he is the latter.

    • JobExperience

      Michelle (Robinson) is the former, so his kids must be transformers.
      Can Transformers climb a ladder (later)?
      Some say Obama’s Mommy was a Commie.
      That’s an impediment?

      Obama began his training as an organ grinder’s helper way before Harvard. Now that’s a first class conspiracy theory, no foil hat.

  • JobExperience

    Education debt does not improve life.
    You say Black people should give up.
    Should Whites in South Africa give up?
    Get outta the exceptionalist (USA) bubble.
    You can work ’til you drop in this country and wind up drowning in debt. Where’s the ethic?

  • Bruce94

    One reason that the promise of the March on Washington remains unfulfilled in many respects is that at least one of the lynchpins of the movement, the emerging coalition of organized labor and civil rights advocacy, has been undercut. Beginning with Reagan Revolution, we’ve witnessed the decline of unions, the ascendancy of global capital, the stagnation of wages even as productivity and profits continue to rise and the fed. min. wage founders, the unprecedented concentration of wealth and growing income inequality even as social mobility continues to wane AND a political party (i.e. GOP) hijacked by extremists dedicated to shrinking govt. to where it can no longer effectively respond to these problems to the same degree it could back in the 60′s.

    With the rise of the Tea Party, we’ve seen mostly older, white folks organized against their own economic interests in much the same way that Reagan Democrats were propelled by appeals to fear and racial resentment to the cause of eliminating the types of public investment indispensable to the economic growth and middle-class expansion in the post-WWII period. And the new Republican Southern Strategy still in effect today as articulated by one of Reagan’s confidants, Lee Atwater, uses the same code: “States’ Rights,” “cutting taxes,” and “cutting budgets,” the implementation of which hurts ethnic and racial minorities disproportionately.

    MLK recognized that economic opportunity and social justice are inexorably linked just as class and race. It was this recognition that clarified his Dream and led him to Memphis where he was killed working in solidarity with public employees represented by the AFSMCE.

    • JobExperience

      True that.

      But was King a Commie?

    • TomK_in_Boston

      Exactly right. The bad old things I once thought were ancient history like voter suppression, union busting, gilded age plutocrats, sweatshops, etc, the whole stinking sewer of unregulated capitalism are Baaaack! Time to fight the old battles again.

  • JMcElroy

    At my job, and many other employers, there is an entrance examination. Ours consist of a physical ability test, written exam, and so on. Everything is the same except the written exam. The exam is based on a 100 point grading scale with a 60 to pass. Basically, my employer forms a list of prospects. The top three black scores automatically jump ahead to the top of the list. So you may have a white person that scored a 98 on the test, but if you have three black people who score an 88, 86, and 85, they jump to the top of the list and will get hired before the 98 score. Is our society not fueling the racism problem in this country by trying to enforce diversity over competency?

    • OnPointComments

      The soft bigotry of low expectations.

      The practice you describe bestows a benefit on someone who personally may have never been the object of discrimination to the detriment of someone who personally may have never discriminated against anyone.

      The sins of the father should not be visited upon the son.

  • 1Brett1

    When preparing the proceedings and the list of participants, the organizers of today’s activities on the Mall, commemorating the 50th anniversary of King’s speech, had asked a number of high-profile Republicans to either speak or simply be a part of the ceremonies. Each and EVERY Republican turned down the invitation to join the celebration…that speaks volumes.

    The Party has dug in its heels in its modern definition/interpretation of itself, through its actions. It has decided to pander to a very narrow base of Americans at the exclusion of all others, has rejected moderation in favor of a kind of extremism. They simply will not win elections this way. Period. It seems the advisors to the Republican Party recommend more of a move to the Right after each election; many of these experts have been flat out wrong in previous elections, yet they are not only still listened to but their advice is doubled down on.

    • HonestDebate1

      Speaks volumes how? Are they racist? Is that what you are implying?

      You’ve got it backwards. I suspect Obama’s speech will be all about him as well pandering to blacks. Any Republican worth their salt would speak the truth and that would not be received well. Out of respect to Dr. King, I don’t think this is the forum for such truth. Imagine someone pointing out 73% of black children are raised in single parent families. Imagine someone pointing out the dropout rate for blacks in NY is 50%. Imagine someone pointing out 12% of the population commits half the murders. No, it’s not the place for that.

      And regarding moving right, are you really contending the McCain and Romney were a move to the right? They lost. Reagan won. GWB won. The Tea Party won big time in 2010. What possible evidence supports your claim?

      • 1Brett1

        Machine gun Gregg (or is it Gnat Smith?), I was making a point that it would behoove Republicans to show a presence at some of these functions if they wish to be an inclusive Party. Your rat-tat-tat of laundry-list issues is a bit of an over-ammunition reply.

        McCain and Romney abandoned any moderate leanings they had to get their nominations, then they had the impossible task of going from convincing people they were “severely” conservative to being moderate in the general election. While people might have a short memory, their memories aren’t that short.

        As far as your taking the complexities of what is happening within the black community and trying to distill it down/making some sort of an excuse for Republicans being exclusionary/not attending events that commemorate an important moment in our history, I’ll not take the bait.

        What I will say, briefly, is that 30% of white children are born out of wedlock (by the way, those against Civil Rights legislation in the ’60s would cite a 25% out of wedlock rate as being the problem with the black community back then, so one gets the impression that opposition to blacks is mounted no matter what statistics are cited in a vacuum), yet one never hears Republicans stand at events celebrating a historical event that primarily involved white people, saying, “the problem with the white community is that 30% of white children are born out of wedlock.” Your excuse that high-profile Republicans refused invitation to this celebration because they couldn’t stand up and admonish black people is absurd.

        We all know you eject any discussion about race that isn’t critical of the black community/critical of black leaders, and you also reject any criticism of conservative leaders being tone deaf in their actions/words. So, your reply is not surprising.

        • HonestDebate1

          Yea, whatever. 30% is horrific, 73% is a tragedy. And don’t expect me to take your word for anything. I have no idea who was invited and no idea who declined, if any. I was just speculating. Did they invite any high profile black conservatives?

          And you’re last paragraph has no basis in reality. Why do you ALWAYS tell me what I think? I sing the praises of many black leaders. Clarence Thomas is a hero of mine. I love Condi Rice and have said so many times. I think the far left lib Bill Cosby is heroic in his efforts to speak the truth. Dr. Ben Carson wrote a wonderful piece in the Washington Times today on the issue. Doneen Boreli is another black leader that I highly admire. My Carolina Senator to the South Tim Scott is a great man. I never miss Walter E. Williams when he subs for Rush. And on and on.

          Conversely, I was called a racist for touting the comments of Larry Elder. I was told by a lib that another of my heroes, Thomas Sowell was no better than a white separatist.

          Who do you consider the black leaders to be? I sure don’t put Jess Jackson, Al Sharpton, or Obama on that list. They have reeked havoc on the black community.

          No, I think you just like to make stuff up.

          • 1Brett1

            Your first paragraph essentially calls me a liar. If you can cite any Republicans who did speak today, or if you can cite any republicans who did not refuse their invitation to speak, please provide those which refute what I said.

            Oh yeah, I forgot, your partisanship trumps your criticism of blacks. Blacks who mouth the Party line/express conservative ideas are okay, I suppose.

            You turned my comment into something that you feel you can comfortably argue. My comment was about the exclusionary nature of the Republican Party (the ones who actually have some political power, not the ones such as Thomas, Rice, Carson, etc.), and how they refused invitations to speak. You have, again, turned it into something else and made it a pissing contest. That is really about all you can do, I guess.

            Did any of these conservative black leaders you mention ask to speak today? Were any of them prevented from speaking?

          • HonestDebate1

            I don’t know who was asked and who declined besides Boehner who honored MLK at another event. If you have a list, post it. You did not. I didn’t accuse you of lying but you’ll believe anything the lib media tell you and I don’t trust your judgement. Are you a decline means racism? Just say it if that’s what you mean.

          • 1Brett1

            As I said (to put it another way, since you didn’t pick up on my other comments), my point was that the Republicans have a kind of tone deafness and would be wise to participate in some of these events/show some face time/say a few nonpartisan words/show some ability to get along and embrace a broader base rather than narrowing their base, etc. They won’t win elections at the rate their going. That’s all I was saying.

            You argued about Republicans moving toward being more conservative, so I believe you understood what I meant to begin with. It seems you keep trying to put words in my mouth.

            Since my initial comment had nothing to do with you or your disbelief in Republicans declining invitations to speak, nor was my comment directed toward you or was challenging anything you have said, I don’t really care what you believe or don’t believe. In my reply to you, I just thought your pelting me with your usual laundry list gripes about black people over my initial comment was uncalled for. My only desire in interacting with you regarding my comment was to make clear you understood that. Otherwise, my initial comment was directed toward the forum in general.

            But, whatever…

          • HonestDebate1

            So they should pander according to the color of skin? No thanks.

            Here’s a clue, women, blacks, hispanics and the rest all like a booming economy, cheap gas and jobs. They don’t like Obamacare. It’s not about the color of skin.

          • 1Brett1

            Ah, so now you are the spokesperson for “women, blacks, etc., and what they like (in a statement that is so general that no one can criticize it but is really just a platform on which to set up a little ObamaCare bashing). Okay, then, I can see you are commenting at the top of your intelligence.

            Also, you see participating in this week’s celebration of MLK’s speech 50 years ago as pandering? Welp, that says a lot about your views.

          • Ray in VT

            Like how the GOP has been pandering to white southerners at least since Reagan went to Philadelphia, MS to talk about state’s rats?

          • HonestDebate1

            If I accept your premises (I don’t) can you please stop trying to excuse one bad behavior by citing another bad behavior? It’s getting old and it’s shallow.

            This is the 3rd comment where you have written “State’s rats”. I thought it was a typo and you meant States rights, please clarify. Are you just trying to be cute?

          • Ray in VT

            So supporting one groups attempt to attain equal rights is pandering, akin to attempting to garner votes from segregationists? I don’t see how advancing an agenda that supports equality for minority groups is pandering, unless, of course, one’s agenda, conversely, is to prevent that attainment of that equality.

            Also, “state’s rats” is intentional. I take it from a scene in Gettysburg where C. Thomas Howell’s character cannot understand who a captured Confederate is fighting for his “rats”.

          • HonestDebate1

            We have equal rights (rats) under the law. It’s over. The battle has been won. Now the efforts are all about swinging the pendulum to the opposite extreme (revenge) by making and upholding laws that judge by the color of skin. I personally thing it’s despicable.

          • Ray in VT

            The battle is never won so long as some will try to take rights away. There’s still plenty of groups facing discrimination aside from African Americans. The anti-gay rights movement is alive and kicking.

          • Ray in VT

            Ah yes, Walter “NAACP is the Klan with a tan” Williams. I wonder how the leaders of the Civil Rights movement 50 years ago would have viewed one of their own speaking out in such a way. Not well I am guessing.

          • HonestDebate1

            Dude, it’s 2013. Get over it already. The NAACP was noble and needed 50 years ago, now they are just a racist tax-exempt arm of the democrat party. The NAACP is horrible for blacks.

          • 1Brett1

            The NAACP: “…they are just a racist tax-exempt arm of the democrat party.”

            Submitted without comment.

          • HonestDebate1

            Exactly, there’s nothing else to say.

          • Ray in VT

            Please provide examples of how the NAACP is racist. Do they preach any sort of racial superiority? Are non-blacks forbidden from joining?

          • Ray in VT

            It’s kindof funny how you throw around terms like liar and racist pretty freely when it comes to people that you don’t like (a lot of whom seem to be black), yet bristle at the idea that people, predominantly white, conservative, state’s rats folks with “principled” opposition to aspects of the major elements of civil rights law, pushing measures throughout the heart of Dixie that really do hurt black people might have a hood hidden in their closets. Yet another amazing double standard.

          • HonestDebate1

            No dude, I use those terms with extreme caution and only for liars and racists. I will say what I think and don’t just hide behind innuendo.

          • Ray in VT

            Except for when the liars and racists are conservatives, Republicans or Teabaggers. Then hoops of dizzying proportion must be jumped through in order to keep them honest and upright.

          • HonestDebate1

            Never.

          • Ray in VT

            Yeah, right. I’ve read way too many of your comments to believe that.

          • HonestDebate1

            Alrighty then.

          • Ray in VT

            Just calling it like I see it. Your comment history speaks pretty well for itself.

          • HonestDebate1

            Yes they do, I proudly stand by what I write.

          • Ray in VT

            I wouldn’t be proud of such a history filled with distortions, bad sources and misquotes. Maybe that is just the academic in me.

      • Ray in VT

        Reagan’s been dead for years, and Bush only won the Electoral vote by one state, whereas the supposed most extreme liberal President ever still managed 332 with all of the headwinds facing his reelection campaign (and he didn’t even have to stir up the masses with anything akin to the wave of anti-gay ballot measures that conservatives pushed in 2004).

        How did that TEA Party do in 2012? The GOP only has the House due to gerrymandering, which is why, I guess, conservatives feel the need to do both that and attempt to keep Democratically aligned groups away from the polls. They’ll likely do well again in 2014 (I hear that Christine O’Donnell is considering another run), but good luck to them winning nationally with a movement that has been surveyed to older, whiter, more conservative and more opposed to gay marriage than the general population. Those don’t seem like great trend lines.

        • William

          Obama was against gay marriage, for years.

          • Ray in VT

            Yup. He, like increasing numbers of the American public, have come to a different conclusion in recent years, though.

          • HonestDebate1

            But as far as racism goes it’s still 50 years ago? Your consistency os impeccable.

          • Ray in VT

            Nah. 50 years ago they could get away with burning crosses and turning dogs on people. Now one has to be sneakier when trying to keep people from voting or moving kids away from integrated schools.

          • HonestDebate1

            Black people are capable of voting all by themselves. Only idiots and the weak can be intimidated into not voting. There are no KKK operatives standing at polls with billy clubs. Black people are not all felons incapable of obtaining valid ID. Black people are smart, they are not pawns. It’s a sick notion you have.

          • Ray in VT

            Unless conservatives can stop them.

            I guess that white conservatives pushing measures that make it expensive and difficult for some groups, including, disproportionately, African Americans, is just a coincidence. I’m totally willing to buy that.

          • HonestDebate1

            Add to my list that being black does not make you poor. Dropping out of school at alarming rates does. Astonishing rates of single parent homes does. Creating victims instead of demanding excellence does.

            BTW newsflash, voting is free. Here in NC valid ID’s are free too. Is your opinion of blacks really that low? I’m serious, I don’t think you are a racist but I also don’t think you realize what your words mean.

          • Ray in VT

            Considering that people born poor makes one likely to stay or end up poor and that some have tried to keep minority groups poor, weak and uneducated for generations, it does not surprise me that poverty is more prevalent in some communities. Maybe if we just sprinkle a little magic liberty dust on them then everyone will be rich and prosper.

            What documents does one need to get those documents? How much do those cost? How far does one have to travel to get one? What hours are those facilities open?

            No, but based upon a lot of your comments, I tend to think that yours might be, except for the few token ones that tow the conservative line.

          • HonestDebate1

            In America you are not chained to the station in life to which you were born. But at least you didn’t say black this time.

            Jobs would be good.

          • Ray in VT

            Indeed one is not, but it does have an effect upon many factors that contribute to how one ends up. There’s plenty of groups that the GOP and their allies would like to keep away from the polls. African Americans just seem to make the most noise about people trying to put them back at the back of the bus.

        • HonestDebate1

          Sorry, don’t buy it. The Tea Party was beaten down into submission by 2012. The IRS had a lot to do with that, donations were not forthcoming. They were vilified relentlessly until the lies took hold. They’re racist you know. The rallies stopped, people stayed home from the town halls and the conservatives stayed home on election day. Don’t expect me to explain 2012 regarding Obama. But that wasn’t my point anyway.

          And no, gerrymandering cannot explain 2010. Not even close. I live in NC the home of the Democrat gerrymander. I’m not saying it has no affect but it doesn’t make a revolution. 2010 was historic by any standard and it was not because of a move to the middle.

          McCain and Romney were not a move to the right by any stretch of the imagination.

          • Ray in VT

            Off year elections often are not well attended by elements of the Democratic base. Good luck running some guy out with “principled” opposition to elements of civil rights law in 2016, though. I’m sure that that will really draw in the minority voters.

          • HonestDebate1

            Some people actually consider showing an ID to vote, or lowering standards for college admissions for blacks and such things as that to be civil rights issues. That’s how bad it’s gotten.

          • Ray in VT

            Well, people who fought those voting battles 50 years ago seem to think that some of these voter ID measures, pushed by same old State’s Rats white conservatives, are the new poll taxes, and at least one GOP leader has acknowledged that their voter initiatives were meant to target and discourage Democratic-leaning groups.

          • Ray in VT

            Passion, with a sometimes shocking lack of facts, certainly in part explains 2010. How did guys like Walsh and West do the second time around, and how is it that a party can retain a 30-40 vote majority while also losing the popular vote, when the general popular vote has fairly well predicted House composition in the past? That, with attempts to keep people away, will only work for so long.

          • HonestDebate1

            Okay I get it, gerrymandering gave Republicans the House in 2012 but had zero affect on West in 2012. That’s consistent.

          • Ray in VT

            Plus Allen West didn’t have to wait that long to vote, so long voting lines isn’t a problem, and it was cold today, so there is no global warming. It is a good thing that one case totally disproves the whole national picture.

            Check out the voting history for the areas where West won in 2010. He lost handily in that same district in 2008, and he won in 2010 with fewer votes than he garnered in that loss. Maybe the outlandish rhetoric and dickish behavior that drove his 2012 GOP primary opponent to support the Democrat had something to do with the electorate souring on him, which is why they liberated him from the slavery of being a public employee.

          • HonestDebate1

            Now you’re just getting weird. Can you work in unalienable, Bush and the definition of lie too?

          • Ray in VT

            I could, but I would have to go over to gemworld.com to do that. Could you please repeat your lie about the definition of lie. I forget what it is.

          • HonestDebate1

            Nice work.

          • Ray in VT

            You’re welcome. Then I can look up some cherry picked stats that come out of white nationalist groups in order to paint minorities in the worst possible light.

          • HonestDebate1

            I would not know anything about white nationalist sites or cherry picking. Talk to Hennorama.

          • Ray in VT

            Again, yeah, right. So you don’t know anything about them, you just repeat their numbers that other elements of the right-wing media spread around?

          • hennorama

            HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

            “The Tea Party was beaten down into submission by 2012. The IRS had a lot to do with that, donations were not forthcoming.”

            Let me understand – passionate and principled “Tea Party” donors, who likely espoused anti-government/anti-IRS views, and were all about freedom, kept their money in their pockets because of some bureaucratic actions?

            That would be one fine demonstration of firmly held beliefs.

            What a joke.

          • HonestDebate1

            You got it except for the anti government part. The Tea Party is not anti government, they advocate smaller government.

            I didn’t see nearly as many Tea Party events as 2010, did you? I can tell you I am sick and tired of being called a racist so, except for here, I don’t even bother to go there. And can you honestly say the IRS harassment of the Tea Party organizations had no affect on contributions? Or are you saying they had it coming because they are anti-IRS (that’s a stretch too)? Well you’re entitled to that but it’s insane. No, the fact is the politics of personal destruction and the nasty Alinski tactics had an effect. BTW, Romney won the independents, you do realize that don’t you? So while us Conservative appreciate your trying to help, no thanks.

          • hennorama

            Debates Not, He – TYFYR.

            My point was not about the number of TEA shindigs, or even the exact level of contributions to “Tea Party” groups.

            Rather, my intent was two-fold, to point out that:

            1. Your statement that “The IRS had a lot to do with [your claim that “The Tea Party was beaten down into submission ...”] is laughable.

            2. If “Tea Party” donors actually were true to their supposed convictions, and if their convictions were anti-IRS/pro-”smaller government,” it would be hilariously ironic if they failed to donate because of some perceived “harassment” by the very agencies and entities they oppose, or if they would let some bureaucratic action or inaction bother them.

            Were they only going to donate if they could get a tax deduction from a 501(c)(3) group? Did they only want to donate to 501(c)(4) groups, which aren’t required to disclose their donors? And why would principled donors to these groups worry about tax-exempt status anyway? Wouldn’t they give first and ask questions later?

            Rehashing the issues surrounding the tax-exempt organizations issue is pointless.

            You indicating that the “The IRS had a lot to do with” some perceived decline of the “Tea Party” is laughable.

            I do appreciate the comic relief, though, which you’ve increased with the balance of your post about “the politics of personal destruction and the nasty Alinski tactics…”

            Thanks again for your response, and the laughs.

          • HonestDebate1

            What do convictions have to do with donating to a candidate they swore they would never support? Romney was the Tea Partiers last choice.

            The IRS is the #1 intimidator in America. And now they control your health care. Terrific.

            Think what you want.

          • hennorama

            Debates Not, He – TYFYR.

            In the original comment to which I replied, you wrote “The Tea Party was beaten down into submission by 2012. The IRS had a lot to do with that, donations were not forthcoming.” My interpretation of “donations were not forthcoming” was “donations [to “Tea Party” groups that “the IRS had a lot to do with” and/or were “harassing”] were not forthcoming.”

            If that is not what you meant, please advise.

            If that is what you meant, my comments stand. I’d be happy to explain them to you if you still have questions.

            Thank you for even more laughs, prompted by reading your comment that “IRS is the #1 intimidator in America. And now they control your health care.”

            Good one.

          • StilllHere

            The facts are clearly on your side. Somehow the IRS issue has been whitewashed. The media seemed to have moved on to Obama’s tie color.

      • Roy Merritt

        I saw Obama’s speech and it was in no way about him. And yes both McCain and Romney were a move to the right, but McCain lost because he wasn’t blatantly ugly enough for you people, Recall if you will the creepy old lady who said Obama a Muslim and thus she didn’t trust him. McCain set her straight about it saying he was just a decent man whom he had fundamental disagreements with him and I suspect a lot of those GOP voters didn’t bother to even vote convinced that McCain was a traitor to his kind. Romney made it plain he was as far right as any of you when he made his 47% comment in Boca Raton. And they both also lost because they were lousy candidates. The Tea Party won because people don’t usually vote in these midterm elections and were convinced by fools like Rick Santelli that they were being taken for a ride. The truth of it however is the people who were taking them for a ride are the criminals on Wall Street like Santelli and the banksters who want to fleece everyone acting like they are investment firms rather than banks. I suspect from now on every Democrat will vote in every election knowing that from the most humble of political offices to the highest offices in the land the GOP is determined to grab power and do their utmost to turn America is a plutocracy.

        • HonestDebate1

          I’m glad to hear that, I will check the speech out.

          Yea, maybe if McCain had accused Obama of murder and outsourcing (as if Obama had ever run squat) and other such lies he would have been nasty enough to win. If he could have gotten the help of a lying moderator it would gave been gravy.

          Romney was right about the 47%, BTW. Absolutely right.

    • StilllHere

      No Congressional Democrat leaders are speaking.

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/08/28/at-march-on-washington-congressional-leaders-absent/
      Maybe it’s Democrats who’ve decided the black vote is so in their pocket they don’t even have to bother paying lip service to some PR event. Maybe they figure we’re too far from an election to have to worry about pandering to this constituency with more empty platitudes.

      • jefe68

        “O villain, villain, smiling, damned villain!
        –Hamlet (I, v, 106)”

      • 1Brett1

        You must have a reading comprehension problem. NO Republican leaders spoke; not one. In this blog/opinion piece you linked to, it references one, I repeat, ONE Democrat not able to speak. Now, that is opposed to NONE (as in NO Republicans spoke today, and ALL refused their invitations) on the Republican side. Eventually, that will seep in and you will understand my comment. Wait, I forgot it is you…nah, you can’t grasp a very simple concept difference between ALL refused their invitation to speak vs. one couldn’t speak.

        • StilllHere

          Please provide the invitee list and those who indicated they couldn’t make it, then tally up the Democrats versus Republicans. Maybe then you’ll have a point, otherwise, as usual, you’re grasping at straws to support your tired narrative.

          • 1Brett1

            You’re the one trying to make a point about Democrats not attending. You’re the one making the false claims. You replied to my initial comment with a rebuttal of, “No Congressional Democrat leaders are speaking.” You didn’t provide proper evidence of your claim. Instead you are demanding criticism of your erroneous claim be supported with citation.

          • StilllHere

            Please, Reed and Pelosi won’t be there and Scott got stiffed. No Democrat leaders are bothering to show up because it’s not worth their time. Name one Congressional Democrat leader that’s speaking or attending this political event.

          • jefe68

            Troll once more.

          • 1Brett1

            Pelosi spoke on Saturday.

          • StilllHere

            Thanks for admitting your wrong. I’m sure your flexible enough to admit then that Republicans spoke at events held at other times as well.

          • HonestDebate1

            Harry Reid was happy Obama is light skinned with no Negro dialect unless he needs it (AKA pandering). Is that what MLK stood for?

          • HonestDebate1

            I’m glad to see 3 dislikes for Reid’s racism.

          • Ray in VT

            Are you suggesting that it is not a fact that lighter-skinner African Americans have long been able to achieve higher status than darker African Americans or that minorities who speak in dialects are not roundly ridiculed in some circles?

          • HonestDebate1

            I am saying I despise judging people by the color of their skin.

            Clarence Thomas is very dark skinned, so is Oprah. Snoop Dog speaks ebonics. They did alright. Obama and Hillary turn up the dialect to pander. It’s all sick.

          • Ray in VT

            So, again, if one or two people succeed, then the problem doesn’t exist. It seems like your sample size (ranging from 1-3) pretty well skews your results.

            What was Dubya’s accent again? It was totally consistent regardless of the audience, right? Changing dialect, word choice and speech patterns is just something that people do based upon the situation. I speak differently here at the office versus in the barn. Is that sick?

          • HonestDebate1

            Do you use proper grammar?

          • Ray in VT

            At the office, almost always. In the barn I have found it more comfortable to speak more closely like the others there. I can turn what would be my “natural” accent on and off. I have found that many around the barn are a bit put off by highfalutin talk.

          • jefe68

            Nancey Pelosi was there and she gave a speech.
            What this guy is trying to is to demean this day with his nasty comments. He wants to diminish MLK’s legacy, period.

            He calls John Lewis a political hack, that tells what this troll is about.

          • jefe68

            Troll again.

          • HonestDebate1

            But Julian Bond said so!

          • Ray in VT

            Well, at least Cantor, Boehner, Michael Steele, John McCain, George and Jeb Bush.

            http://blogs.rollcall.com/goppers/boehner-cantor-turned-down-chance-to-speak-at-march-anniversary/

            I guess that they all had other priorities.

        • jefe68

          There are plenty of Democrats speaking at this event. The right wing regressive ideologues (as witnessed on this very page) are out to use this day as an excuse to put forward nothing more than more of their puerile inanity.

      • hennorama

        StilllHere – yeah, except no.

        Senior Chief Deputy Whip, Rep. John Lewis, gave a rousing speech. He is a Congressional Democratic leader.

        Maybe you missed his speech. If so, here is his closing:

        (the full video and full transcript can be accessed using the link below, from the same source you cited):

        “And the dean of the civil rights movement once said, we may have come here on different ships, but we all are in the same boat now. So it doesn’t matter whether they’re black or white, Latino, Asian- American or Native American, whether we [are] gay or straight — we are one people, we are one family, we are all living in the same house — not just the American house, but the the world house.

        “And when we finally accept these truths, then we will be able to fulfill Dr. King’s dream to build a beloved community, a nation, and a world at peace with itself.”

        http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/transcript-rep-john-lewiss-speech-on-50th-anniversary-of-the-march-on-washington/2013/08/28/fc2d538a-100d-11e3-8cdd-bcdc09410972_story.html

        • StilllHere

          Yeah, except no, he’s not a leader.
          Rousing, I doubt as well. I’ve heard him interviewed several times the last couple of days, seems like a political hack. Too many years in DC perhaps.

          • jefe68

            Troll.

          • hennorama

            StilllHere – TY for your response.

            It’s unfortunate that you denigrate Rep. John Lewis, one of the “Big Six” of the Civil Rights Movement, on today of all days. Perhaps next time you will opt for a more courteous and respectful path.

          • HonestDebate1

            He lost me when he didn’t fire the aide who accused Tea Partiers of slinging the “n” word at him. The Tea Partiers must be defeated by any means necessary, that’s the way they play. It’s nasty.

            I still respect his struggle and intellect but he’s living in the past.

          • Ray in VT

            Like the conservatives still working diligently to pass measures that will keep black people away from the polls or re-segregate school districts? I guess that no one told them that they are living in the past.

          • HonestDebate1

            No, like when he didn’t fire the aide that screamed racism.

          • Ray in VT

            http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/03/20/90774/tea-party-protesters-call-georgias.html#.Uh9CYj-mW1w

            What’s wrong with calling it like you see it? Isn’t this still a country where you can say what you want? Why do you hate free speech?

          • StilllHere

            Not black people, fraudulent voters of all colors. You’re the one bringing race into the equation.
            School districts should be geographically based not gerrymandered like Democrat Congressional districts.

          • StilllHere

            It’s about voter fraud and it applies to all colors.
            Democrats are gerrymandering school districts like they do Congressional ones.

          • Ray in VT

            Yeah, and to fix the supposed problem of dead people voting and such they’re just going to crack down on the old, the poor and minorities to do it. Acceptable losses when you’re trying to win an election with unpopular positions.

            So should I chalk you up for supporting school segregation? That wouldn’t surprise me. Take a look at the districts drawn up in the Republican state houses. They’re pretty screwy looking, but that doesn’t fit into your moronic “Democrat bad” narrative I guess.

          • StilllHere

            He might have been, but he’s been a politician even longer. That’s clear from his present rhetoric.

          • hennorama

            StilllHere – TY for modulating the tone of your response.

          • StilllHere

            I calls em like I sees em.

          • hennorama

            StilllHere – TYFYR.

            To be clear, my prior post was sincere and intended as a compliment. Thank you again.

          • HonestDebate1

            These guys are saying Republicans refused invitations as if it means they did not honor Dr. King. That’s not true, they held their own event.

          • Ray in VT

            Was that the bi-partisan meeting in Statuary Hall? Maybe Boehner and McConnell were just too busy planning another vote to defund the ACA or ACORN.

    • hennorama

      1Brett1 – the conspicuous absence of Republicans was indeed conspicuous, but I hadn’t realized they ALL “had prior commitments” until your post.

      At least former Pres. George W. Bush had good reason – he’s still recovering from heart surgery. Get well soon, Mr. Bush!

      http://swampland.time.com/2013/08/23/partisan-politics-creep-into-i-have-a-dream-anniversary/

      http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/08/28/at-50th-anniversary-of-march-no-gop-speakers/

    • Roy Merritt

      That’s because they are afraid the lunatic fringe in the Tea Party will challenge them in the gerrymandered districts that the GOP has created for themselves wherein they don’t feel compelled to listen to anyone but themselves. If any member of the GOP should act the least bit reasonable and perhaps might compromise with any Democrat on anything some right winger will crawl from under some rock or the baseboard where creatures like them linger waiting for some opportunity to manifest themselves and challenge them for not having ideological purity. Look at what they are now doing to Jeff Flake in AZ. or what I imagine they are going to do to James Sensenbrenner who has vowed to bring back the voting rights act. You are certain to hear them excoriate him for having such audacity. I can’t help but hear the echoes of George Wallace, Ross Barnett, Orvel Faubus, and Lester Maddox and any of the strident voices I heard when I was coming of age whenever i hear these right wingers spout their divisive rhetoric.

      • harverdphd

        no one compromises with a weak opponent

        • StilllHere

          Democrats have shown they do not know how to govern.

      • 1Brett1

        Between pandering to the Tea Party (I’m sure many Republicans are now seeing this as a miscalculation and short-sided maneuver) and fencing themselves in with gerrymandering/redistricting, the Republicans have painted themselves into a corner, and their “big tent” is getting smaller and smaller.

  • thequietkid10

    Am I wrong to be disappointment about this whole thing? It has been as much (if not more so) about promoting liberal economic policies as it has been the actually march on Washington. (as if free market advocates don’t believe in fairness and equal opportunity) I know Martin Luther King was a progressive, but I’m pretty sure his dream was bigger then this. I was hoping President Obama would do better then this.

    • J__o__h__n

      His dream included economic justice: “I am convinced that if we
      are to get on the right side of the world revolution,
      we as a nation must undergo a radical revolution of values. We must rapidly begin the shift from a
      “thing-oriented” society to a “person-oriented” society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important
      than people,
      the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and
      militarism are incapable of being conquered.”

      and

      “True compassion is
      more than flinging a coin to a beggar. It comes to see that an edifice which
      produces beggars needs restructuring.”

    • TomK_in_Boston

      I was hoping that Obama would be the new FDR, but instead we got a conservadem to the right of Reagan. I was hoping for national health care and and we got the Heritage foundation’s Romneycare. I was hoping for help for Unions on life support and we got nothing. I was hoping for big progressive tax increases on the rich and the corporations and we got a tiny change. I was hoping for strong re-regulation of wall st and jail for the fin-crim class and we got nothing but very weak changes and no jail. Geez, buffoon Summers s the favorite for the Fed! I was hoping for transparency and we got the NSA. Now we have the right re-instituting voter suppression 50 yrs after King and the response has been very weak. Yes, I was hoping for a lot better than this.

      • fun bobby

        plus one would hope a member of the choome gang would have made progress in ending the racist drug war but instead he has doubled down on it

        http://www.obamachoomgang.com/index.html

        • TomK_in_Boston

          Amen.

      • harverdphd

        Rush tried to warn you

    • hennorama

      thequietkid – there’s no way President Obama’s speech could have been “bigger then [sic] this,” but certainly President Obama personifies Dr. King’s ‘Dream.’

      The simple fact of “a skinny kid with a funny name” being elected and reelected to the office of President Of The United States speaks far more about Dr. King’s ‘Dream’ than just about anything else ever could.

      “I stand here today, grateful for the diversity of my heritage, aware that my parents’ dreams live on in my precious daughters. I stand here knowing that my story is part of the larger American story, that I owe a debt to all of those who came before me, and that, in no other country on earth, is my story even possible. Tonight, we gather to affirm the greatness of our nation, not because of the height of our skyscrapers, or the power of our military, or the size of our economy. Our pride is based on a very simple premise, summed up in a declaration made over two hundred years ago, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal. That they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights. That among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.”

      - from Barack Obama’s Keynote Address at the 2004 Democratic National Convention.

      See:
      http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec04/obama-keynote-dnc.html

      • William

        Somehow I can’t see MLK attending Rev. Wright’s “church” for 20 years.

        • hennorama

          William – TY for your response.

          I agree, as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was a co-pastor of Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta until he was assassinated in 1968. Had he not been killed by an assassin’s bullet, Dr. King would likely still be pastor there today, with need to worship elsewhere.

          See:
          http://www.nps.gov/malu/planyourvisit/ebenezer_baptist_church.htm

          That was your point, right?

          • fun bobby

            I think he would probably be retired by now

          • hennorama

            f b – a very good point.

          • StilllHere

            He certainly left a vacuum that has yet to be filled. Sharpton, Bond and Jackson are race hustlers by comparison.

        • HonestDebate1

          MLK was a content of character guy, he would have probably voted for Romney. Obama’s skin color means nothing.

          Even Oprah had the good sense to distance herself from that church.

          • jefe68

            Somehow I doubt it.
            Have you ever read anything by MLK on economics?
            If you had you would find that Mitt Romney’s economic ideology is the antithesis of Martin Luther King’s.

            But you don’t care about that, all you want to do here is use his name to forward your regressive agenda.

            Two conditions are indispensable if we are to ensure that the guaranteed income operates as a consistently progressive measure. First, it must be pegged to the median income of society, not the lowest levels of income. To guarantee an income at the floor would simply perpetuate welfare standards and freeze into the society poverty conditions. Second, the guaranteed income must be dynamic; it must automatically increase as the total social income grows. Were it permitted to remain static under growth conditions, the recipients would suffer a relative decline. If periodic reviews disclose that the whole national income has risen, then the guaranteed income would have to be adjusted upward by the same percentage. Without these safeguards a creeping retrogression would occur, nullifying the gains of security and stability.

            http://www.progress.org/dividend/cdking.html

          • StilllHere

            Probably because they wouldn’t put her on the cover of the church’s weekly bulletin.

      • HonestDebate1

        Obama is a disaster who was elected because people judged him by the color of his skin over the content of his character. Don’t think for a minute he is honoring Dr. King. He is spitting on the grave.

        • hennorama

          What a bunch of malarkey.

        • jefe68

          What a load of BS.

          • HonestDebate1

            Do you seriously think he was judged by the content of his character/ Really?

          • jefe68

            Who are you to talk of character?

          • HonestDebate1

            I am a man of high character, at least that’s what people tell me.

          • StilllHere

            It’s clear. Plus you appear to have infinite patience with those of little character and a nasty disposition to boot.

          • jefe68

            Well, perhaps the “emperor” is naked in this regard.

        • StilllHere

          That is clear, at least for a segment of his support.

    • StilllHere

      You are correct and that will be clear as Obama’s speech will be fade away leaving no trace like pixels on a teleprompter.

  • fun bobby

    to what degree have white Hispanics been preyed upon by the rich?

  • Roy Merritt

    If only black people would go back to where our white ancestors drug their ancestors from in chains and perhaps while they’re at it take all the poor white folk that are inclined to act like them for daring to ask for a little consideration in the economic war being waged against them then surely this would be a far better country. How dare they expect to receive any food assistance to feed their hungry children or any kind of assistance when we need this money to hand out to the 1% and Wall Street whenever they have the opportunity or feel inclined to steal all the money we have invested with them. Any poor white person who listens to all this right wing divisiveness and thinks they give one iota about them they are sadly mistaken or at best deluded. God help us all if this country should tolerate these right wingers much longer. They are nothing but greedy elitist determined to destroy us all except for those they want to use as cannon fodder in wars they are determined to lead us into.

    • harverdphd

      The 1% is a myth

    • fun bobby

      yeah what those people need is handouts. That’s the best in the long term right?

  • hennorama

    There’s no EQUALITY without U and I.

    (brazenly stolen from somewhere)

    • fun bobby

      where exactly? the attribution of quotes is very important for some reason

      • hennorama

        f b – if I recalled the source of my stolen phrase, I would cite it. I was reminded of it yesterday by a tweet/comment that scrolled on the screen of one of the TV networks covering the “Dream” anniversary events. It went something like this:

        “EQ_AL_TY doesn’t work without U and I”

        I don’t recall which network, as I was flipping amongst 3 of them, and it was a quick scroll.

        This is not a new idea, and I admitted my theft.

        This is completely different from an unattributed quote .

        • fun bobby

          very suspicious

          • hennorama

            f b – perhaps, but 100% honest and accurate.

  • 1Brett1

    In 1963, conservatives were in opposition to MLK’s speech. They generally viewed the man himself as a trouble maker, as well. Many viewed the activity on the Mall as a mob. In fact, the public in general were neither favorable toward the speech nor the man. The speech also didn’t gain in popularity until after his assassination. King wasn’t viewed popularly until the last year of his life. Until that point, around 2/3 of people saw him as causing trouble, at least into late ’66/early ’67.

    It’s interesting to hear some of the rhetoric coming from neocons in this day and age and to compare that rhetoric to people like Strom Thurmond (a Dixiecrat Democrat who left the Party in 1964 to join Republicans in opposition of the Civil Rights Act) and even to Republican senator and 1964 presidential candidate Barry Goldwater.

    • jefe68

      And as we can see by some of today’s comments, not much has changed.

  • HonestDebate1

    Not only that but blacks aren’t that smart, right? The need a leg up and a little sympathy. Merit takes a back seat in hiring. Color of skin has a place in the equation that is just as meaningful. Diversity is not about diversity of talent, experience and thought. It’s about the color of skin.

    What in your comment conflicts with the above?

    • 1Brett1

      What utter nonsense, and your characterization has nothing to do with what I said. Besides, I was talking to someone else. Go to your room or something, the adults are talking…You’ve been interfering with my comments to others all day…You’ve become like a puss-filled boil.

  • HonestDebate1

    America’s only black Senator, Tim Scott, was NOT invited to speak at the event today. Evidently he was not on the alleged (and not produced) “long list” that the race hustler Julian Bond spoke of. Why?

    • Bill_GKD

      Maybe it has something to do with his praise for the gutting of the voting Rights Act.

      • StilllHere

        It wasn’t gutted, in fact, they didn’t go far enough.

        • 1Brett1

          How far, pray tell, should they have gone?

          • StilllHere

            All the way.

          • Ray in VT

            Yeah, we don’t need no stinking minorities voting.

          • StilllHere

            No voter fraud is the goal.

          • Ray in VT

            Making it hard for legitimate voters to exercise their rights so that some will stay away if just a happy side effect that the GOP will take. I hear that it’s a double bonus that some of the voters are both Democrats and minorities.

          • StilllHere

            It would be harder for voter fraud to occur and improve our confidence in the results. Win-win.

          • Ray in VT

            Harder for the massive amounts of voter fraud that is alleged but never proved? Surely it can be done without unduly infringing of the rights of voters, but that doesn’t seem to be a priority. I’m plenty confident in the election process, just so long as the guy running the voting machine company doesn’t guarantee that one candidate will win months in advance. That concerns me far more than the supposed fraud that is going on.

    • jefe68

      Junior (interim) Senator Tim Scott, (who has been a senator for how many months now?) was not invited to speak, but all the senior republican leaders in fact were. They all, however, declined.

      • HonestDebate1

        How many months was the junior Senator from IL in office before he started running for President?

        • jefe68

          Has anyone ever told you that you have all the personality of a paper cup.

          • HonestDebate1

            No. Do you have an answer?

          • jefe68

            The answer is anyone who is a natural born citizen (born on US soil) of the US can run for the office of president. Even a junior Senator from Illinois or South Carolina.

            Your’s is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
            – With apologies to Shakespeare.

          • HonestDebate1

            It went right over your head.

          • TFRX

            No, bub.

            I just want the Next Republican Savior’s citizenship to be given all the scrutiny that President Obama’s was.

          • StilllHere

            He’s avoiding it because he doesn’t have an answer and even trying to find one forces him to face his ignorance.

          • TFRX

            Even saying “No point answering a troll” is too much ink.

            Why not troll you way back to whatever right-wing cesspit your schtick plays in?

          • StilllHere

            Forced to insults, truly pathetic, even for you.

          • jefe68

            The stench of this rabid regressive is a bit much.

          • jefe68

            Be gone troll.

          • jefe68

            No it did not. Get a life already.

          • TFRX

            I don’t accept that answer yet.

            The left deserves its pound of flesh: Let’s have our librulmedia bury Ted Cruz in a pile of “people are saying you’re not a citizen” turds first.

            Then have NPR look at “both sides” of the issue.

            And then show me that 35% of left-wingers still don’t believe Cruz is an American citizen, three years later.

            After that, I’ll concede Cruz is a citizen.

          • jefe68

            I was not talking about Cruz.
            But his mother was born on US soil, which makes Cruz a citizen by law.

          • TFRX

            I wasn’t talking about him, strictly, either. I was tangenting to the crapsandwich job our media (and NPR) did Obama’s fake “scandal” about “not being a citizen”.

            One can still find polls where Americans in a non-negligible number think Obama is not a citizen, wasn’t born in Hawaii.

            This whole thing wasn’t about “finding out the truth” by our press corps. It was about being pssies who couldn’t stand up to the right-wing racists.

            And I just dream of a world where the shoe is on the other foot, and part of me just wants our media to take four years to conclude Cruz is a citizen, to wimp out on their roles as actual, informed agents who know things which idiot news consumers don’t, rather than get played like chumps.

            Carry on, good sir. Now I have some fake birth certificates to emboss at home.

          • StilllHere

            He doesn’t. He’s afraid of confronting the question.

          • jefe68

            Pathetic.

        • StilllHere

          Obviously he’s shown he wasn’t ready to govern and Syrian civilians are dying because of it.

          • HonestDebate1

            So are blacks in inner city Chicago as he injects himself into the Trayvon Martin tragedy. Has he ever addressed gang violence? Or any black on black crime?

          • StilllHere

            Or black on white crime?
            Both of which are more prevalent and statistically significant.
            No, he interjects himself in issues designed to increase his popularity with a constituency he hopes will prop up his legacy in the face of no tangible accomplishments.

    • StilllHere

      This event wasn’t about MLK or about recognizing how much of his dream has been frittered away by people making poor choices of their own freewill. It was about grandstanding for the political debates of the present, bigger government and more handouts to those same people who let MLK down by making terrible choices.

      • 1Brett1

        You left out it is about “lazy people wanting free stuff.”

        • HonestDebate1

          As big of a problem as that is (it’s huge), the more conceding issue is politicians with the power to make it happen. But what dos that have to do with blacks or MLK?

        • StilllHere

          You took care of it for me. Thanks.

      • J__o__h__n

        The event was not just MLK but the entire march’s 50th anniversary and economic justice was a part of the march’s and MLK’s message.

        • StilllHere

          Economic justice equals handouts?

  • JGC

    Right now… right now… I am watching the analysis of the 50th anniversary MLK speech, and I am disgusted that Rev. Dr. Bernice King is not afforded a featured spot in these recaps. There are all the usual suspects in an event such as this: I see most of the former presidents and the current president, the talking heads on cable, all the King family members, except for Rev. Dr. Bernice King. Her words were maybe too true, maybe too inflammatory to be acknowledged by milquetoast media. Merlie Evers is giving her the recognition that is deserved. Truly, it was the only speech today to get people up on their feet and applauding, and moving in as the people on that dais embraced her message. I think I know the line that got her blacklisted from the remembrance of her father’s speech. Do you?

    • HonestDebate1

      I don’t know the line from Ms. King. What was it JGC?

      • JGC

        “We are still crippled by practices and policies, steeped in racial pride, hatred and hostility, some of which have us standing our ground instead of finding common ground…let freedom ring everywhere we go. If freedom is going to ring in Libya, in Egypt , in Syria, in Florida, then we must reach across the table, feed each other, and let freedom ring.”

        She also, in her opening remarks, managed to take a swipe at the sitting president in 1963 being MIA as a presence at the March, which must have had Caroline Kennedy churning on the inside. Rev. Bernice King said many provocative, uncomfortable and truthful things in her speech.

    • hennorama

      JGC – the entire King family were impressive in their remarks, but indeed, the Reverend Dr. Bernice King was thunderous and electrifying in her oratory.

      The line you refer to is at about 4:55 into her fiery speech, which can be viewed here:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PQWbIlur17s

  • StilllHere

    Would MLK have identified a red line and then move it twice? Doubt it.

    • Ray in VT

      Given his staunch anti-war positions, I think that it’s pretty unlikely that he’d be any more for getting us into Syria today than he was for keeping us in Vietnam then.

      • TomK_in_Boston

        “John Kenneth Galbraith said that a guaranteed annual income could be done for about $20bn a year. And I say to you today, that if our nation can spend $35bn a year to fight an unjust, evil war in Vietnam, and $20bn to put a man on the moon, it can spend billions of dollars to put God’s children on their own two feet right here on earth.” MLK 1967

        It’s funny that rightys say MLK was for civil rights but didn’t speak on other issues. Sorry, but he was an across-the-board progressive. The 1967 speech is very apt for today.

  • HonestDebate1

    This is the message that was missing yesterday:

    Even if it falls your lot to be a street sweeper, go out and sweep streets like Michelangelo painted pictures! Sweep streets like Handel and Beethoven composed music. Sweep streets like Shakespeare wrote poetry. Sweep streets so well that all the host of heaven and earth will have to pause and say, “Here lived a great street sweeper who swept his job well!” If you can’t be a pine on the top of a hill, be a scrub in the valley, but be the best little scrub on the side of the rill. Be a bush if you can’t be a tree. If you can’t be a highway, just be a trail. If you can’t be a sun, be a star. It isn’t by size that you win or you fail; be the best at whatever that you are!

    • fun bobby

      wow a lot of people were offended by that.

      • HonestDebate1

        Isn’t it amazing? People around here love to say they respect Dr. King until his words conflict with their ideology. They are exploiting his memory for political gain.

        • StilllHere

          They denigrate his memory. It’s sad.

          • HonestDebate1

            It really is. Some may read this and think we are being contentious but my heart truly breaks.

          • StilllHere

            They are just afraid of confronting their own failures.

          • jefe68

            You denigrate humanity.

        • fun bobby

          they do the same to the Dalai Lama. that seemed like a pretty inspirational quote I wonder why it upsets them.

        • jefe68

          No, you have it all wrong. It is not the author of the message in so much as the messenger that people objected too. You sir, and all the right wingers on this forum have used this event to forward regressive right wing ideologies an have perverted the ideas of the March on Washington and the words of Martin Luther King Jr.

          • HonestDebate1

            BS, MLK was right. It’s about the message. If you want to reject his message then have the balls to say it. But I guess you’ve made it clear enough.

        • StilllHere

          They are afraid of his ideas and will turn it by insulting you. They tarnish his memory.

          Their minds are as twisted as their logic.

          • jefe68

            Troll.

        • Ray in VT

          Yeah, just look at all of the true, principled conservatives around here praising his message on economic justice. People are really loving that on the right.

          • HonestDebate1

            We praise him for judging by the content of character as opposed to the color of skin. That’s a concept he libs around here hate.

            Are you on the DNC talking point rolodex? The bastardized reframing with the malleable phrase “economic justice” is the spoon fed talking point and you are right on cue. It’s so shallow.

          • Ray in VT

            It’s a good thing that we have you here to tell us what the “libs” think.

            King and the March did indeed have goals that included what might be broadly phrased “economic justice”, unless you also think that they were only about integration.

          • HonestDebate1

            It’s quite clear libs around here look at skin color before content of character. Vividly clear.

            I understand but to imply MLK would embrace Obama’s failed policies or that MLK would oppose Conservative economic principles or that Republicans don’t want justice with mealy mouthed innuendo is not honest debate.

          • Ray in VT

            Such a conclusion may be clear to you, but considering some of the other things that you consider to be clear and true, I don’t think that such an assessment holds much water.

            If you would like to provide some evidence of King’s laissez-faire economic thinking, then I would gladly read it. I don’t find much that is honest Republicans and their allies these days. One must only look at the lies that get propagated here to see that.

        • jefe68

          What’s amazing is the level you stoop to in debasing the legacy of MLK.

          • HonestDebate1

            MLK Jr. was in no way a race hustler. Please don’t tell me what I think.

            There are 4 dislikes on the comment with his quote, are you one of them?

  • Ray in VT

    I didn’t realize that today is the 8th anniversary of Hurricane Katrina. So I guess that Saturday will be the 8th anniversary of when FEMA started doing something. Let us contrast that with the Sandy response.

    • fun bobby

      I have not personally been to either place. are you saying the sandy area is in worse shape than the Katrina area?

    • HonestDebate1

      It’s a little unfair to compare the actions of a Democrat Governor with a Republican Governor.

      • StilllHere

        Instant classic!

      • TFRX

        Heckuva job, Brownie.

        ^That’s a punchline, for the humor-impaired among us.

        Once more, for the slow people: FEMA was crap under the GOP. And it worked under Clinton and obama.

        President Obama did the whole governance thing. President Bush did what Bush did best: An all-hands-on-deck PR push before Gov. Landrieu (D) and Mayor Nagin (D) knew what happened on the airwaves

        They couldn’t fight the PR onslaught because the Democrats were actually doing the government things Shrub was photo-opping for. While Shrub was pep-rallying in front of his “cheer squad”.

        Amazing and pathetic what passes for a punchline among the right-wingers.

        • StilllHere

          Blanco and Nagin both paid for their incredible mistakes during Katrina by eventually losing their jobs. Nagin was also indicted on multiple charges of corruption.

          • TFRX

            Heckuva job, Brownie

            Look, Mr. “Instant classic”: That’s a punchline.

            Once more, with no feeling: Bush played politics while the Democrats were governing. They wanted FEMA to do what it was supposed to, and all they got was some hack Bush appointee in over his head.

            Days afterwards, Bush had that “thoughtful looking out of window” photo for sale to raise money for the Republicans’ coffers. It topped anything he did to actual, yknow, govern.

            I’d ask you to not pretend otherwise, but your memory is a lost cause.

          • StilllHere

            The Democrats closest to the issue muffed it completely and the voters judged them harshly. Blanco to obscurity and Nagin to a penitentiary.

          • TFRX

            Bush, Brownie, and FEMA botched the job because it required real governance, the stuff that Bush didn’t sign on for.

            Really, just stop pretending things matter from your world, troll

            Heckuva Job, Brownie

            That’s a punchline, you twerp.

            And Shrub is still the worst-ranked (historians say) and lowest-rated Prez in a century.

          • StilllHere

            History, and the sufferers of their incompetence, has already laid the blame on local Democrats as is appropriate.

          • TFRX

            Wow, you really want to whitewash Katrina from Bush’s resume?

            What, are you camping out in the Bush II library?

          • fun bobby

            don’t they have to wait till obama is done to rank him?

          • Ray in VT

            It’s too bad that the dopes behind the Iraq debacle got re-elected, promoted and given medals.

          • StilllHere

            You mean Hillary?

          • Ray in VT

            Did she preside over the intelligence, make the final decision to invade in March of 2013 or manage the occupation? If so, then I must have missed that.

          • StilllHere

            She was a powerful force in the Senate at the time, so yes. You remember when Congress was asked to vote on war resolutions. That’s back when we were a democracy. Now we just beg the UN for cover.

          • Ray in VT

            Wow. I never knew that she was so powerful. It would probably be news to Bush & Co. too.

          • TFRX

            Did you see that some GOPers in Louisiana are not sure (sic) if Obama was responsible for the FEMA Katrina debacle?

            Heckuva a job, Brownie.

          • Ray in VT

            Yup. That’s good one. Sort of like how one time I heard one blame Ruby Ridge on Clinton.

          • Ray in VT

            Or how about “Republican Voters Pretty Sure 2012 Election Was Stolen By Non-Existent Organization”

            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/04/acorn-republican-voters_n_2239298.html

            Maybe that’s why they keep trying to defund it.

          • StilllHere

            The IRS certainly exists and we know they were used as a club by the president in his re-election bid.

          • Ray in VT

            “We know they were used as a club by the president”. I didn’t know that we know that. Is there some sort of secret evidence that has been kept from the public regarding the IRS targeting groups, including “likely ACORN successors” (which must have been TEA Party groups or else they wouldn’t have been targeted), that links it to political motivations from the White House. Certainly Darryl Issa has tried to present this in as highly partisan a light as possible by seeking a report that purposefully ignored any similar targeting of liberal groups. I guess that such tactics can fool fools most of the time. Sad really.

          • pete18

            She voted for it, along with John Kerry, Joe Biden, Chris Dodd, Harry Reid and Chuck Schumer.

          • HonestDebate1

            Obama let Texas burn and refused the Republican State aide. That’s politics.

          • Ray in VT

            Like holding up Sandy aid for 2 months?

            Maybe Texas would be better able to respond if it was not cutting the budget for fire fighting agencies:

            http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/05/21/168091/tx-gop-obama-fires/

          • HonestDebate1

            Maybe politics and revenge shouldn’t be a factor when the fires rage. Ya’ think? You’re changing the subject.

            BTW, I don’t read Think progress, there is nothing to be gained by doing so,

          • Ray in VT

            Oh, so you are shooting the messenger. That’s not honest debate. Who was it that first changed the subject here away from the Katrina response? It was not I.

          • Ray in VT

            And that stopped Bush and Brownie from getting FEMA faster. That dude must have been powerful.

          • HonestDebate1

            Blanco and Nagin bear much responsibility, do you agree?

          • Ray in VT

            They definitely do bear some, but does that excuse a slow response from the Bush administration?

          • HonestDebate1

            Not entirely but definitely to a degree. I fault them for not taking action without the request. I fault them for not assuming the Democrat run State would be a mess and incompetent. In cases like that they should have just broken the law, covered for the incompetence and acted to save lives. Look to the Republican run Mississippi to see how it should have been done.

          • Ray in VT

            I would fault them for not having the foresight to get things in motion in anticipation of the event, as was done with Sandy. I guess that one only needs to look at how crises get handled in the North with a Democrat in the White House to see how things get handled right in such a situation. The Deep South has proven for generations that it can’t get its act together no matter who is in charge. How did the governor of Mississippi handle having a major hurricane hit a major city that is in many places below sea level?

        • jefe68

          They are a sad and indifferent tribe.

      • Ray in VT

        So FEMA was taking orders from the governors in those situations? Who knew.

        • HonestDebate1

          Yes, FEMA cannot act unless the a governor requests them. So now you know.

          Governors can enlist the school busses to evacuate citizens before they are under water. Governors can keep up the levees.

          • Ray in VT

            Blanco declared a state of emergency and requested Federal aid before the storm hit, so now you know. Heckuva job Brownie.

            Governors can indeed do what they can, and the Army Corps of Engineers can also live up to their responsibilities.

          • HonestDebate1

            Make up your mind Ray. First you act surprised that FEMA doesn’t take orders from governors the next second you do a 180.

            “There’s no question the federal government plays a major role in disaster relief. But federal officials say in order to get involved, they must first be asked to do so by state officials.

            “As one FEMA official told ABC News, Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco failed to submit a request for help in a timely manner.”

            Shortly before Katrina hit, she sent President Bush a request asking for shelter and provisions, but didn’t specifically ask for help with evacuations. One aide to the governor told ABC News today Blanco thought city officials were taking care of the evacuation.”

            http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/HurricaneKatrina/blame-delayed-response-katrina/story?id=1102467

          • Ray in VT

            I see no inconsistencies with my statement. FEMA is a Federal agency. They are not run or directed by a or any state governor. You said that they need to be requested by the governor, and Blanco did. The response was just slow. She declared a state of emergency about the same amount of time before the storm hit that Christie did. One major difference was that last year FEMA didn’t sit on its haunches. They were on the ground around NYC in force the next day.

          • HonestDebate1

            Alrighty then. And declaring a State of emergency is not a request for FEMA. You are conflating to cover your flip flop, whatever.

            There is plenty of blame to go around but all you see is hate for Bush, Wipe the ideology out of your eyes.

          • Ray in VT

            True, but when it says this:

            Pursuant to 44 CFR § 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of

            such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the

            capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that

            supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect

            property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a

            disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures,

            direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP)

            assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal.

            then it can be. Again, you attempt to create conflict and inconsistency where there is none. Perhaps you should follow your own advice and set you own house in order before casting stones at others.

    • TFRX

      The right-wing fluffers and their media have progressed from

      “(Imagined non-crisis) is Obama’s Katrina”

      to

      Katrina isn’t even Katrina*

      .

      Katrina used to be the codeword for how a President should not to respond in a crisis. Guess it’s been disappeared now.

      • Ray in VT

        Well, maybe after shattering the record for “Watergate’s” by a President, they decided to move on to something else. I’m waiting for something to be Obama’s XYZ affair.

        • TFRX

          You’re misunderestimating the history-ignorant of the low-information wingnuts.

          Personally, I’m waiting for Euguene Debs to be revealed as the man behind Teapot Dome.

          • Ray in VT

            I thought that he manufactured the Zimmermann Telegram.

      • Ray in VT

        I think that the only large, slow moving natural disaster that’s ever struck Obama has been the GOP and it’s allies.

      • Ray in VT

        What does TFRX mean? If you don’t mind me asking of course.

        • Ray in VT

          Hahaha. I wonder which one of our resident brainiacs is bothering to go through and down vote even comments like this.

        • TFRX

          No problem.

          Like all supervillains, I have an origin story which makes me the most fascinating character in a tentpole movie. And I’m petting an albino cat as we speak.

          But I can’t give that story away right now. You’ll have to spend your $12 ($15 in 3D) like everyone else. :-)

      • hennorama

        TFRX – as the unelected, unappointed, and unofficial greeter, please allow me to type:

        Welcome to the forum.

        • TFRX

          Henno, it’s me, “TF”. I had a strange malfunction with the non-Disqus service I’d been using to sign into Disqus with, and after a couple hours of pixelating, just gave up and created a new Disqus ID.

          In other words, I finally got my own personal “Disqus stinks” moment.

          • hennorama

            TF – I suspeceted as much, but as you know, I’m not a fan of assumptions.

            Please allow the following amendment:

            TFRX – as the unelected, unappointed, and unofficial greeter, please allow me to type:

            Where the frak have you been, and with whom have you been frakking (besides DISQUS, of course)?

          • TFRX

            I’ve been away doing other, fun things, like learning traffic shortcuts thru New Jersey, and mastering WMATA to some tourist spots in DC.

            My personal frakkage? That’s sort of an offline kind of subject, I figure.

          • hennorama

            TF – my sympathies as to NJ driving, but enjoy the sights in D.C. The Metro is right up there on my list of subway systems.

            Personally, I prefer the variety of the Paris Metro, especially the several wonderful Art Nouveau style entrances. But the London Underground, despite the somewhat dizzying escalators one can encounter (see photo below), and the DC Metro come in close seconds. The Montréal Métro is right up there as well, especially given the Underground City aspect of it, where one needn’t take notice of the weather even in the middle of winter.

            For a few examples of wonderful Paris Metro stations, see:

            http://www.parislogue.com/featured-articles/the-most-beautiful-metro-stations-in-paris.html

            http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Lifeandhealth/Pix/pictures/2006/12/04/8MartinGodwin.jpg

            And of course, that “offline subject” was merely an extension of the intended good-natured humor in my post.

          • HonestDebate1

            You’ve used TFRX before, haven’t you?

  • fun bobby

    interns, that’s a good one

  • jefe68

    Who mentioned Cruz? Not I.

    • TFRX

      I tangented to Cruz on my own. Just sorta throwing it in there.

  • jefe68

    He wont. It’s all about smear tactics with this lot at an 8th grade level, if that.

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