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The GOP And Immigration Reform

With Jane Clayson in for Tom Ashbrook.

Immigration reform and the GOP. The big Republican debate of whether the party should go for diversity or go white.

In this April 18, 2013 file photo, Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., center, and others Senators, participate in a news conference on immigration on Capitol Hill in Washington. (AP)

In this April 18, 2013 file photo, Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., center, and others Senators, participate in a news conference on immigration on Capitol Hill in Washington. (AP)

The comprehensive immigration bill died last week in the House.  After the 2012 election, Republicans saw demographic changes were working against them.

Marco Rubio, John McCain, pushed for immigration reform.  For a path to citizenship.  The rest of Republican Party seemed to get on board.  It was a big issue with bipartisan support.  With momentum.  Then the sense of urgency faded.  And some in the GOP started questioning how much of the non-white vote they really needed.

This hour, On Point:  the battle within the Republican Party over how inclusive it needs to be.

Guests

Rachel Smolkin, deputy managing editor for Politico. (@rachelsmolkin)

Sean Trende, senior elections analyst for RealClearPolitics, where he has written a four-part series on demographics and the GOP. Author of “The Lost Majority: Why the Future of Government is up for Grabs and Who Will Take It.” (@seantrende)

Mercedes Viana Schlapp, co-founder of Cove Strategies, a communications and political consulting firm. She served in the White House for President George W. Bush as a spokesperson for Spanish-language media outlets. She writes weekly for US News and World Report.

From Tom’s Reading List

The New York Times: Republicans in House Resist Overhaul for Immigration — “Meeting for the first time as a group to hash out their approach to immigration, House Republicans on Wednesday came down overwhelmingly against a comprehensive overhaul of the nation’s immigration laws, putting in jeopardy the future of sweeping legislation that includes a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants.”

RealClearPolitics: Does GOP Have to Pass Immigration Reform? – “Today I’d like to talk in a little more depth about the immigration debate and the demographic changes facing the country, and ask whether Republicans really do have to pass immigration reform (much less something akin to the Senate’s version of immigration reform) to survive as a party, as too many commentators to cite have suggested.”

Slate: Who Needs Hispanic Votes — “Republicans currently control 234 of the House’s 435 voting districts. In 210 of these districts—eight short of the votes you need to elect a speaker—the Hispanic share of the vote is below 25 percent. Of the other 24 districts where Hispanic voters might be problematic for a Republican who attacks the immigration bill, 12 went for Mitt Romney over Barack Obama. So, if House Republicans held every one of their current seats that only have a tiny fraction of Hispanics, and the dozen with solid Hispanic votes but Republican tendencies, they’d have the majority with four votes to spare.”

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  • 2Gary2

    I will vote for who ever will round up the illegals and send them home.  The only immigration we need are highly skilled.  No unskilled are needed.  We already have too many unskilled barely literate Americans as it is.

    • Shag_Wevera

      You are mostly right, yet it won’t happen and no politician will openly agree with you.

    • Yar

      By the sweat of whose brow is the food on your table?  Don’t eat anything picked by the one you want to deport.  If you knew the truth you would not say what you have said, unless you acknowledge the fact that agriculture labor is a highly skilled profession.

      • MadMarkTheCodeWarrior

        Having worked as a manual laborer on a farm, I have nothing but respect for the folks who harvest our food. Too many Americans could not last a day in the fields, and most of the rest would not even want to try.

    • MadMarkTheCodeWarrior

      We don’t need more highly skilled immigrants… Big business needs them to drive down middle class wages by hiring immigrant 20 something’s with nothing to loose and everything to gain. There are plenty of highly trained, older workers looking for jobs,

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        Don’t forget that H1B hirees can be deported once they lose a job. Nice way to make a workforce docile.

        For every headline from some IT CEO saying “There’s a shortage of skilled Americans to do this” there’s the unwritted coda “at the wages we want to pay”.

  • Yar

    Immigration reform is a generational issue.  Baby boomers don’t realize it but we need the influx of young workers to be able to trade our work over time so we can survive in retirement.  Money has no value if there is no one with whom to trade.  The old Guard GOP has a totally different definition of sustainability than young folks.  They have their power, Mitch Mcconnell is the perfect example,  anything he does will cause him to lose the next election.  The Tea party wing of the party holds hostage any idea that we actually govern our nation.  Other than a strong conservative (activist) Judiciary ( to protect property rights) our polarized politics is that of paralysis.  At 71 years old Mcconnell’s definition of sustainability is simply to win the next election regardless of what it does for the party or the country for that matter past November 2014.  

  • Shag_Wevera

    Both political parties want and endless flow of illegal immigrants.  Business also wants this.  Think anything is really gonna change?

    Put up a wall, put up some machine guns, patrol it w/German Shepherds, and border crossing will fall to an insignificant number.  Deport all illegals that come into incidental contact with the authorities.  Immediately audit food service establishments, hotel employees, landscapers, etc.  Deport illegals who are found and fine those who hired them.  Stop giving any benefits to illegals.  No SS or Medicare or Medicaid.  Children born here to illegals should not be given citizenship.

    There…  These measures are a rock-solid way to solve the problem.  Let’s see which pol from which party will adopt it.

    Don’t hold your breath…

  • Wm_James_from_Missouri

    How Many Immigrants Come To America Each Year?
    Ask.com gives an answer.

    http://www.ask.com/question/how-many-immigrants-come-to-america-each-year

    ————————–
    ChaCha says: one millionhttp://www.chacha.com/question/how-many-immigrants-come-into-america-each-year

    ————————–
    Isn’t this enough ?
    ————————
    This website is loaded with information !
    http://www.migrationinformation.org/USfocus/display.cfm?id=931

    ————————————————————————

    I think our country’s approach is all wrong. The US should be bargaining to acquire new territories and working to create new American States. This country has territories who’s denizen’s populations are being marginalized by allowing all of these “illegals” to effectively, “push ahead in line“!
    We in the US do not need to encourage anymore “baby makers” to continue to have access to our borders. I know this sounds unkind, and xenophobic but we must accept that the US cannot continue down the same old path. We live on a planet with a limited number of resources and need to manage ourselves better. By taking a different approach we may begin to bring economic equilibrium and sustainability for all.

  • Wm_James_from_Missouri

    NPR, I take issue with your sentence, “ Immigration reform and the GOP. The big Republican debate of whether the party should go for diversity or go white.”
    The issue is not about Caucasian versus Non-Caucasian, it is about alarmingly vast numbers of immigrants, most illegal, being granted citizenship, in an increasing crowded and economically challenged America! The problems created by this invasion would be the same if we in the US were bordered by Germanic tribes, invading our borders.

    • AC

      i agree with you. totally inappropriate, and i’m not even republican…

      • 1Brett1

        Except that that language comes straight from Republicans. Listen to Sean Trende’s language on the show. He has emphasized how Republicans should continue to rely on “white voters” and shouldn’t rely on the “Hispanic vote.” The Republicans see Hispanic voters as needed for part of a strategy to win elections and not as a minority group of people with societal concerns… well, the more modern ones who see a changing demographic. The ones who are reactionary (in the true sense of the word as in holding on to “the good old days”), say over and over that whites are still the majority and Republicans need to support their base and the majority, not minorities. 

        Should NPR have misrepresented the Republican mindset? Should NPR have stated more clearly that they were borrowing Republican language? It seems the latter would have gotten even more ire from most of those complaining this morning (not you). Republicans like to pretend they are something they are not, that is unless they are talking purely to their base. 

        • Wm_James_from_Missouri

          Brett, your retort is a good one, however, I still think NPR might have phrased it differently. My main thrust is, it is not about White versus Non White .

  • AC

    this again?

  • John Cedar

    “…go for diversity or go white?”
    You expect trolling comments like that in the comment section not in the guest section.

    Lets be clear about this misuse of the word “reform”. Out of all the aspects of the senate’s law that actually reforms immigration, the only part the left is interested in passing, is the part making illegal invaders into bona fied line-jumping citizens. (Who can then vote donkey…legally or illegally…doesn’t matter which to them.) That is not reform. Being against that is not anti-diverse or pro-white…it is simply being a good steward of the nation.

  • HonestDebate1

    Please, why not the Democrats and immigration? Go white?! Go diversity? It’s stupid.

  • Expanded_Consciousness

    Bye bye, Republican Party. It wasn’t nice knowing you.

    • IDF_fan

      Then you Democrats can do to the rest of America, what you did to Detroit, run it into the ground.

      • adks12020

        Why is it that people on the right always refer to Detroit when speaking about how horrible Democrats are? Is it because they want to ignore the fact that the most economically productive states are blue and Detroit is one glaring example of the opposite? The only red state that can compete economically with the blue states is Texas and that is mostly based on math. Texas is huge and has a huge population.

      • J__o__h__n

        Which Democratic CEOs send the jobs overseas?  

    • donniethebrasco

      Hello Democrat party.  You will start employing Stalinistic tactics or die.

  • Wahoo_wa

    Didn’t the Obama administration deport a record number of illegal immigrants in his first term?  It seems like he clearly set a tone for this issue.

  • TomK_in_Boston

    The righty agenda is redistribution of wealth to the top. Always follow the money. Cheap labor is good for corporate oligarchs. Very good. Considering that they also need hispanic votes, there can be no doubt that the GoP will get behind immigration “reform”. They’ll find a way to herd the TeaOP sheep if they complain, as usual.

    • https://www.facebook.com/kyle.rose Kyle Rose

      And the lefty agenda is total government control and public dependence on the state. Neither vision is really terribly compelling.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        The Koch Bros and their ALEC handmaidens want to know what they need to do for you to recognize their “total government control”.

        • https://www.facebook.com/kyle.rose Kyle Rose

          Ask someone who cares about the Koch brothers or right-wing think tanks. I have no more interest in the big government right than I have in the big government left.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            Ah, the false equivalency gambit from the True Principled Libertarian.

          • https://www.facebook.com/kyle.rose Kyle Rose

            You repeat that litany like a religious nut. If you say it enough times, maybe you’ll believe it.

            The real divide is between freedom and control, not left and right. Both parties are on the control side. I’m on the freedom side. Support either major party and you contribute to the problem of giving the government more power to do evil. You need look no further than Obama’s wanton drone killing of children in Pakistan and Yemen to understand that putting The Right People™ in charge of government will not achieve justice.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            And you need to look no further than the 2006 all-GOP all-the-time bill that got us into that spot. Where was the might of the “both sides” Libertarian then?

            Absolutely nowhere, because you guys count for crap when the right is in power. You’re just too naive to know you’re being used.

            Lemme guess: You’re a white male in the suburbs somewhere. You’ve never had a pregnancy scare in a red state. You’ve never had to risk being fired from one of your jobs in order to get a “voting card” at the DMV when you don’t even  have a driver’s license.

            Please keep displaying your Libertarian fantasy about “bothsides” taking away your freedom.

          • https://www.facebook.com/kyle.rose Kyle Rose

            Lemme guess: you don’t have an actual argument, so you attack your opponent. Way to raise the level of debate.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            Hilarious. The argument is it’s easy to fall into the idea of “bothsides” when you’re white and male and of means and all the Tea Party racism and misogyny and gaybashing doesn’t touch you.

            Your delusion is complete. Enjoy Galt’s Gulch.

          • https://www.facebook.com/kyle.rose Kyle Rose

            I don’t associate with SoCons. Why are you suggesting I have anything to do with them, or the Tea Party? And furthermore why are you suggesting I should support the slightly-lesser evil in order to avoid the slightly-greater evil of the GOP? I don’t like either party, and want nothing to do with either of them.

            If someone finds me someone I can vote *for* rather than someone to vote *against*, maybe I’ll buy back into the system. Until then, take your sanctimonious attitude and GFY.

      • TomK_in_Boston

        Leaving aside the fact that the left has no power at the moment, we’ve been cutting taxes and deregulating the corps since 1980 and the rich are richer than they have been since 1929, so your observation is not fact-based.

        If you redistribute all the $ to the romneys the rest of the population will look to the gvt for help, but that’s a side effect, not a policy.

        • pete18

           And yet the government revenues still have been averaging 19% of GDP when taxes have been cut. http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2010/11/wsj-hausers-law.html

          Therefore, the idea that tax cuts are hurting government spending on the poor or cutting back spending on colleges, or making poor or middle class poorer is a completely specious argument. I know that won’t keep you from making it but just remember it doesn’t have a factual basis.

          • TomK_in_Boston

            I know you’ll just keep parroting the Party Line. All measures of gvt revenue and contribution by the rich and the corps are at record lows.

          • pete18

             Maybe during the Obama administration, but not over  77 years leading up to that point (1930-2007). At least according to the IRS historical tables (follow the links from the other post to find them), your imagination of course might have a different take.

      • Kathy

        True, but we don’t have a liberal party in the US, much less a lefty one. We only have the Republicans (far right) and Democrats (center right). 

  • donniethebrasco

    As soon as suburban whites figure out what you are doing, the Democratic party is over.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

    I’m sorry, we’re listening to Sean Hannity for what good reason again?

    Is he a “big voice in the GOP”?

    • MrNutso

      As an example of hypocrisy.  I’m against something until I realize that if I’m for it I’ll stay in power.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        I’m just fascinated by the promulagtion that the right’s all-influential advocacy media is considered an asset when they’re winning, and totally ignored when they go to wingnuttia.

        Does anyone on public radio or in the mainstream press ever call these flamethrowers a bad thing for the GOP?

    • HonestDebate1

      He’s no Rush.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        Yeah, Rush was too much of a gasbag to keep a TV show.

        • HonestDebate1

          He’s a radio guy. Any TV network would do anything to draw him back. He could even singlehandedly revive MSNBC.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            He a hothead and blowhard who can’t survive on TV because he doesn’t have the skills as a broadcaster.

            He doesn’t do very well when up against people whose mics he can’t shut off. And that’s a lot easier to do on radio than on TV.

          • HonestDebate1

            He had huge ratings, he quit, he wasn’t fired. where do you get this stuff?

        • J__o__h__n

          I loved the set on his show.  He had bookcases filled with just copies of his book.

          • jefe68

            Those were only covers with blank pages.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            Seriously?

            I mean, I didn’t expect to hear that Rush gave out copies of his book to all attendees (a la an Oprah giveaway), but that’s a bit…cheap.

          • J__o__h__n

            The more informative version.  

          • 1Brett1

            In all fairness, don’t forget that he had Crayons to go along with those blank pages!

  • donniethebrasco

    All the people rioting in LA live on government assistance.  They will continue to vote Democratic (if they can reed the bollaot)

    • hellokitty0580

      You, sir, are offensive. Exactly what substantive thoughts and ideas do you think you are contributing to this conversation?

      Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I can respect opinions different from my own, but when your contribution is nothing but mindless, inflammatory chatter what good does it do? Do you even want to contribute in a positive, thoughtful way? Or do you just prefer to provoke and generalize to the maximum offense?

  • hellokitty0580

    I tend to think that while thoughts on immigration reform in the republican party and greater diversity within the republican party are related issues, they are not one in the same. Either way, if the republican party doesn’t become more immigration reform friendly or encourage greater diversity within their ranks, they’ll become extinct. Forget emotional or moral perspectives on this issue; the numbers speak for themselves. In 50 years whites will be the minority in many states. If they republican party only wants to cater to American whites they won’t last as any type of major voice in this country, and I can’t say I’d be super torn up over that.

  • donniethebrasco

    If illegal immigrants stop voting, the Democrats have no chance.

    • tbphkm33

      LOL – oh yes, those illegal immigrants who are worried about being pulled over by a traffic cop are lining up in droves to swing all elections toward the Democrats.  

  • Wahoo_wa

    “Hispanic” refers to ethnic decent from the Iberian Peninsula.  Hispanics are therefore European in decent and can be considered ethnically white.

    • donniethebrasco

      Which means that they don’t riot and loot when they don’t get their way.

      • J__o__h__n

        Gregg, doesn’t this call for a “that’s sick”?

        • 1Brett1

          Naw, that only comes out when a liberal talks about white racism.

        • J__o__h__n

          Don’t censor.  Readers should be able to decide for themselves if content is racist. 

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

    Hey, where’s the liberal to talk about the GOP?

    Why does it seem there’s always reasons to have more Republicans on public radio?

    And can we talk about voter suppression and the right’s role in making the RCP guy’s strategy work?

  • MrNutso

    I can’t believe they are even entertaining Sean Trende.  His example is fatally flawed, because it assumes that white voters who did not vote in 2012 will return, but minority voters who did not vote in 2012 will not return.

  • Frank Forkl

    I’m young and white and normally vote with the democrats. If the “libertarians” of the right got somewhat of a hold on the party’s direction, then maybe they could win me. Failing that, I really can’t see how they’d ever get me to vote with them, I just don’t agree with their stances.

  • OnpointListener

    An excellent article about the reaction of a few “legal” immigrants stuck in the backlog of visa applications:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/16/us/legal-immigrants-seek-reward-for-years-of-following-the-rules.html?hp

  • Jasoturner

    What’s Obamacare?  Does she mean the Affordable Care Act?

    • MrNutso

      From one P.E. to another, that’s your description of Romneycare ;).

    • HonestDebate1

      No, there is nothing affordable about it, not even close. During the debates Obama embraced the name. He owns it.

    • TomK_in_Boston

      Yeah, the plan Romney got using ideas from Gingrich and the Heritage Foundation. The one that works great in MA. The conservatives were afraid of a lot of freeloaders, so they introduced an “individual mandate” to make everyone contribute. Seems like one of the better Conservative ideas.

      I wish we had a liberal president. All we get is Conservative, righty legislation.

      • WorriedfortheCountry

         You are so funny.

        The truth is we keep getting big government expansion — a Statist’s dream.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

          And all the True Principled Conservatives who care about it when a Republican is in power can fit in a corner booth at a Denny’s. But seem to number in the tens of millions when a Dem is in the White House.

          • pete18

             These statistics he got from one his trusted news sources.

        • TomK_in_Boston

          Why are you blind to 33 yrs of tax cuts and deregulation? It’s a mystery.

          • jefe68

            He drinks a lot of kool-aid.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

             Washington DC is the most affluent region of the country.  Again, a Statist’s dream.

            Follow the money$$.

      • pete18

        Those unions that you love so much who have helped the workingman fight the plutocrats that you imagine to be taking over the world, and stealing what “we’ve fought so hard to get over the last century,” wrote a letter to the Obama administration condemning Obama Care as hurting the working class by helping to ““destroy the foundation of the 40 hour work week that is the backbone of the American middle class.”

        http://blogs.wsj.com/corporate-intelligence/2013/07/12/union-letter-obamacare-will-destroy-the-very-health-and-wellbeing-of-workers/

        So I’m curious, does that mean ACA is the tool of the plutocrats, or is it a good thing that you support?

  • M S

    Lindsey is funny. He is saying you have to appease and reward lawbreakers with citizenship in order to get their vote. Wow.

    • donniethebrasco

      They already get votes from illegal immigrants.

  • Michiganjf

    Immigration is only one of a hundred issues for which modern Republicans are on the wrong side.

    Let your “brilliant” guest keep recommending the GOP rely only on old, white voters… they’re losing women, youth, minorities, etc… good luck with that formula!

    Want to know what Republicans would do if they ever get a majority (doubtful) again?
    Just look at what they’re doing in states where they control state legislatures… the American Taliban and their extremist agenda on the rise.

  • Kathy

    The GOP is the party of racism and hate. Supporting a single immigration bill isn’t going to change that, particularly when attempts to do so stir up the people who can’t be bothered to hide their bigotry behind dogwhistles.

    • pete18

       Examples, please?

    • donniethebrasco

      Rejection of cultural norms that support redistribution and dependence is not racism.

      Looking at the riots in LA in response to the acquittal of George Zimmerman, it shows the cultural deficiency of the predominant black culture.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

    How can one “take the emotion out” of the GOP base? The idea of getting working-class whites in New Bedfid* and simultaneously appeal to the Latino voters (of all stripes) without enraging the former is, well, counterindicated.

    (*I’ve got relatives in Eastern MA, and appreciated the pronunciation of “New Bedford”.)

  • Wahoo_wa

    It looks like “white voting” because it is white voting!  Hispanics ARE white!

  • http://www.facebook.com/anita.paul.5680 Anita Paul

    That is a myth that hispanics are conservatively republican.  The polls do not show that.  The hispanice populations is relatively young. 

    • Jasoturner

      More like a stereotype.  Which republicans are comfortable manipulating…

  • donniethebrasco

    Obama’s world has been funded by debt and the Fed mortgaging our future.

    If interest rates go above 5%, there will be government blood in the streets.  The fed will have to choke us with higher and higher interest rates or the dollar will be worth 10% of what it is today.

  • J__o__h__n

    Is Bush’s Spanish as good as his English?

  • http://www.facebook.com/anita.paul.5680 Anita Paul

    Also Mr. Trende college grads went for the Democrats.

  • donniethebrasco

    Obama is pure populist Robin Hood.

    Also, by making more people poor, jobless, and reliant on the government, Obama is making more Democrats.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      “We secretly switched Donnie’s regular Pepsi Cola with Jolt Cola with a red-eye of Monster Energy Drink. Let’s see if he can tell the difference.”

      • donniethebrasco

        It makes you mad when I am correct.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

          Mad? I’m just amazed you can post so quickly and spell so accurately with the high rate of Gish Galloping you do. And I chalk it up to caffeine and guarnine.

          I mean, your sentence construction is not always incredible, but ya can’t have everything.

      • donniethebrasco

        I actually prefer Drank, Cough medicine, Skittles, and Snapple Ice Tea.

        • J__o__h__n

          Be careful where you buy your Skittles.  

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            I’d recommend a “White Like Me” makeup job, a la Eddie Murphy.

            (It’s on Hulu somewhere, I can’t get a good link.)

  • MrNutso

    Sean, how about this:

    Romney did poorly with Hispanics, because they did not like the policies he was advocating.

  • M S

    Yes, George, when people break the law, just change the law…poof, no more crime. Makes sense to me.

  • MrNutso

    So Ted, why do you keep standing in the way of jobs initiatives?

  • donniethebrasco

    more EBT creates more votes.

    When the government inevitably has to cut EBT, then the suburban wives will realize the destruction wrought by the Democrats.

  • Michiganjf

    Why are you ignoring the fact that the non-partisan CBO estimates the immigration reform bill, as drafted, would result in a trillion dollar savings in terms of the deficit?

    This proves that Republican opposition is about politics, not their so called “principles!”

    • John Cedar

      Non-partisan CBO?
      First assume you have a can opener.
      Then assume it came free with your Obamacare

  • Wahoo_wa

    I think it’s much more of an economic issue than a trumped up “race” issue.

    • hellokitty0580

      You’re right. It’s an economic issue, but that in and of itself makes it a race issue just because the two are so deeply intertwined. I think it’s hard to have one conversation without the other.

      • Wahoo_wa

        As I have pointed out in previous comments, Hispanics are white.

    • donniethebrasco

      EBT, section 8, SSI, etc.

      You can make more money not working than working.

      It is the new form of slavery.

      The government gives you food, clothing, shelter, and phones.  But, you are better off if you don’t save, if you avoid the banking system, and have children without a husband.  Teacher unions are encouraged to reduce school performance to keep school populations up because 21 year olds go to high school for breakfast and lunch.

      Eroding families, education, and motivation creates an underclass reliant on political leaders to feed, clothe, house, and provide communications to them.  But they lose the freedom to pursue the American dream and teach their children to not strive as well.  All thanks to get out the vote, poverty encouraging democratic great society programs.

      • Wahoo_wa

        That has not been my experience.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

    Wait, Sean Trende said “Democrat party”?

    There’s just something our host has to correct him on. Or the liberal.

    Oh, wait….

    And can we get a public radio host to say something about the WASPiness of George W. Bush v. Al Gore?

    • J__o__h__n

      That would require an attentive and knowledgeable host.  Tune in next week.  

    • 1Brett1

      And, Trende has used the very language throughout the show that conservatives on this forum are so up in arms about On Point using…I guess if a conservative uses the language it’s okay, it’s not racially divisive. The hypocrisy and double standards are amazing. Any hint of anything remotely derogatory toward Republicans on this show and the neocons on this forum cry foul and cry inappropriate for a public radio station, but have conservatives on who say derogatory phrases about the other side and they are fine with that. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/James-Patrick-Dwyer-Jr/100002088204784 James Patrick Dwyer Jr.

    If there is any quesstio0n about the GOP being for the rich, just look at how the politicians vote on issues dealing with the poor. There can be absolutely no doubt in your mind after that.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       A cynical view is the Democrats depend on poor voters for their existence and therefore have  little interest in truly ‘fixing’ the problem.  Inner cities are almost exclusively controlled by Democrats and the $16T spend on social welfare since the ‘great society’ hasn’t changed the poverty rate one iota.

      • John Cedar

        Actually, poverty has been eradicated.
        So they changed the definition of poverty to mean “your kids’ cellphones are smartphones”.

    • Steve__T

      North Carolina just changed the tax code. A married couple filing jointly with two children who make $40,000 a year will pay $80 less under this tax plan. The same couple filing jointly with two children who make $250,000 will pay $2,434 less.

  • Jasoturner

    “… free trade helps us all…”

    The ongoing embrace of this ideology amazes me.  Countries like India allow their people to wallow in polluted villages and live in near poverty, and we’re supposed to compete with their textile industry, for instance?  It may be free trade, but it sure ain’t a level playing field.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       … or is it ‘free trade’ when the Chinese continue to steal our intellectual property and then sell it back to us.

      • Jasoturner

        Good point.  Though once it comes to making products out of said intellectual property, they’re going to get the manufacturing jobs anyway.

  • David Whitlock

    No one has mentioned the Elephant in the room, the SCOTUS just gutted the Voting Rights Act, and predictably, GOP legislators in states are instituting onerous voting changes, ID, voting times, voting requirements, specifically to disenfranchise groups likely to vote Democratic. 

    This is why the GOP doesn’t feel they need immigration reform.  They will just disenfranchise enough voters to keep “winning” elections.

    • donniethebrasco

      It is onerous to stop voting by illegal immigrants.

      • David Whitlock

         The new voting regulations are not designed to stop voting by illegal immigrants which does not happen (there is no evidence that illegal immigrants have voted).  They are designed to make voting more difficult for legal voters who happen to be of color, poor, or tend to not vote Republican.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           How could you possible know if illegal immigrants are voting?  There is no way in the current system to verify the voting rolls so your claim is specious.

          • Steve__T

             What do you need to register to vote? ans: Id, birth certificate, and answer the question under oath that you are an American citizen. Why do I need an ID card to vote?

    • Wahoo_wa

      Voter ID requirements were deemed Constitutional YEARS ago.  It’s not a new thing.

      • WorriedfortheCountry

         The UN voting panel monitoring voting in the US were aghast that the US didn’t require photo ID.  Most of the civilized world require photo IDs when voting.

    • alsordi

      Voting is such a waste of time.  The whole campaign/election/two party system is a scam. 

      Why would immigrants want to vote?  They have enough to worry about finding work, food and place to live.
      Vote??  what a joke. 

  • donniethebrasco

    It would have been great to have Mitt Romney run against John Kerry.

    Who could tell the difference?

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Nate Silver now says the Senate is in play for the GOP in 2014.  This has nothing to do with immigration reform.

  • donniethebrasco

    It would be nice to put in some protectionist policies favored by Pat Buchanan.

  • M S

    Why do people ask why we do not want to build a wall to the north? Do we have a lot of illegal Canadians in the country?

    • Wahoo_wa

      They’re too polite to do that.

    • jefe68

      Actually the Northern border is a a very different problem. For one, the Mohawk Nation’s land is on both sides of the border. Also in the Northeast Kingdom there are border towns that have no Custom officials and are only patrolled by Vermont state police. I think since 9/11 that’s changed somewhat, but that Northern border from New York to Maine is huge. Not suggesting a wall however.   

      This is an interesting article from 1996:
      http://www.nytimes.com/1996/10/14/nyregion/smuggled-aliens-now-cross-mohawk-land.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        When everybody else is backed up at the Swanton crossing, I go to my secret crossing someplace else where the border building looks like a Foto Hut.

        • jefe68

          I lived in a border town in Vermont for about a 6 months. Use to make beer runs in Quebec all the time. Better beer that for some reason was not sold in the US. Use to claim one case and had two. We new the border guard. 

  • alsordi

    You want to understand immigration better, go to a large supermarket in an urban area and check out the grocery carts.

    You will find that latinos typically have the emptiest cart and are just buying the basics.  They are mostly traditional families with kids and both father and mother working their butts off in a hot restaurant, fields or mopping floors in office parks. 

    The few people in the supermarkets that have their carts overflowing with all of the worst food and drink known to mankind, are another minority that have been in the US for quite a while…and that food is very likely subsidized as is their housing and health care.

    Without immigration from south of the border, the USA would be in a very bad situation. 

    • William

       Not really and a huge problem has been too many poor, uneducated people coming across the border rather than people with marketable skills and better education. The wages in this nation have been flat for years and part of that problem is being caused by cheap imported illegal labor.

    • tbphkm33

      You can’t generalize “…Latinos typically have the emptiest cart…”  I come from northern Europe and do the exact same thing.  Often you find that people from other countries know more about cooking and tend to buy the basics to make fantastic meals.  As opposed to to buying processed food that goes in a microwave.  People will say I have nothing in my fridge, but yet I will serve them the best meal they have had in years. 

    • jefe68

      “latinos typically have the emptiest cart”. Then there’s this chestnut: “The few people in the supermarkets that have their carts overflowing with all of the worst food and drink known to mankind, are another minority that have been in the US for quite a while.”
      Oh boy. talk about loaded comments. 

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

    To Kyle Rose:

    You live your life free from SoCons, do you?

    You really should wake up one morning an d need an abortion, and maybe you’ll learn the first lesson about your “bothparties” delusion.

    • donniethebrasco

      Needed abortions are different than wanted abortions.

      If you’d like to change the law from wanted and needed abortions to simply needed abortions, the whole issue would change.

      • 1Brett1

        Way to make a distinction without a difference/espouse one’s views by oblique suggestion and by pretending to make some distinction. Whether a woman either “wants” or “needs” an abortion it should be a private matter between her and her doctor, and any circumstances in which she finds herself regarding abortion or clinical advice on abortion, as an option, should be kept legal. None of those scenarios should be dictated by any legislature. 

        No, the issues stay the same on either side of the debate.

        • pete18

           It should also be a private matter as to whether parents want or need to abuse their children. Keep out of it legislators.

          • Ray in VT

            I thought that we were talking about fetuses, zygotes and the lot, but if you want to take a stand for people beating their kids, then by all means do so.  Let the market decide.

          • pete18

             People who support abortion
            use euphemisms like “zygotes” and “fetuses,” people who don’t support abortion use terms like “child,” “baby,” “potential life.”  When one sees the pregnancy as a life, the privacy argument holds no weight, just as it doesn’t when a parent decides to abuse a child.

          • Ray in VT

            “People who support abortion use terms like “zygotes” and “fetuses””.  I believe that those are medical terms, unlike, for instance, a term like “partial-birth abortion”, which was made up by the pro-life movement in order to sway opinion.

            I have issues with abortion after viability, but largely not prior to that.  A pregnancy is a potential life, but I do not think that when a woman becomes pregnant she should lose her right to decide what to do with her body.  A child, living and breathing outside of the womb, is far different from a developing fetus that lacks the ability to do so.

            I think that it is true that if one argues that any fertilized egg or implanted embryo is a full human life or a person, then arguments for abortion would be difficult.  However, many people reject that.  They couldn’t even get that passed in Mississippi, and I hope that so long as there are women in my life and my family that they have the liberty to make decisions about their reproductive lives and their bodies.

          • pete18

            Yes, people have all sorts of different ideas about when life starts. When a baby is considered viable outside the womb has changed based on medical technology. It used to be 24 weeks, now it’s possible at 21 weeks although nothing has changed about the reality of the soul or life of that baby between those three weeks, only the technology.
            I’m not sure we want the moral position of when life begins determined by technology, do we?
            As I have mentioned in other posts, if you look at a sonogram of an embryo at 20 weeks, still a legal month for an abortion,
            it’s a stretch to argue against that being a formed life. Drawing such arbitrary lines as to when the mother or the state gets to play god
            about a life based on privacy or the ownership of their body is troubling. My only point on this is that although I believe people have honest differences of opinion as to when life starts, it is a
            quite a reasonable assumption to view the embryo
            as a life well before the state has determined it to be so. People who do see it as a life are drawn to protect it and that is  an understandable moral position, given almost everyone’s inclination to do so whenever they see life as beginning. It also isn’t a position  motivated by a desire to deprive women of their rights or to invade their privacy anymore than your stand would be to prevent abortions after
            the 24th week.

          • John Cedar

            Pete18, you run circles round them logically.

            I’m pro abortion but not pro-choice, however, like you, i  have no problem understanding the  simple plausible logic of those who are pro-life.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            Lolgically? You’re a male who’s deciding hom much the Catholics and Fundies should insert their religion (cloaked in government) into an eam room with a woman and her doctor.

          • Ray in VT

            Absolutely technology has changed things on this issue.  Women could only once prove that they were pregnant when they felt the fetus kick, and the lines have indeed moved when it comes to viability, but I, and many others, do not want decisions regarding our bodies and lives made based upon subjective religious standards, such as the soul, which, if you can provide some for the “reality of the soul” then you will certainly win some sort of prize, is a belief and not a fact.  We play god everyday with people’s lives.  A broken bone and subsequent infection should probably kill me, just as it would have done to people in centuries past.  I am far more concerned with people who want to enforce the supposed will of god upon people who disagree.  I realize that there are many believers who support abortion rights, and there are many nonbelievers who do not support abortion rights.

            I understand the passion and commitment of those who are committed to the position that a developing fetus is a person and a life, but I just don’t have to agree with it, and I do not have to accept those beliefs as ruling my wife’s uterus.  Ultimately, abortion will continue one way or the other.  It existed prior to Roe, but it was just more dangerous.  My wife told me last night that one of her mom’s cousins was rendered infertile by a back alley abortion.  Criminalizing it will only bring those days back.

            I am also doubtful of your contention that restricting abortion rights isn’t at least somewhat about controlling women’s lives and bodies, given the long history of the relegation to second class citizenship that women have faced in the Christian tradition and the western world.  The fact is that women have been in a position of being less powerful throughout much of history, and I do not think that men would submit to such an intrusion into their bodies.

            My position regarding not liking late term abortions, though, does not seek to intervene in people’s lives, as I think that people are responsible enough, generally, to make such reproductive decisions on their own.  I guess that I am in the position of not liking such laws against late term abortions, but I am not against such laws so long as they have reasonable exceptions.  For instance, my sister had a late term abortion because her doctors concluded that the fetus was so deformed that it would not survive.  I am sure that it was a difficult decision, but it is one that she, her husband and her doctors made.  Not you.  Not me.  Not Congress, and that is the way that I think that it should be.  In an ideal world I would like to see abortions become unnecessary, which is why I am so dismayed by the abstinence only sec education movement.

          • pete18

            Ray, my reply to your post at the bottom:
             

            Don’t over read into my use of the term “soul,” I’m not
            arguing from a religious perspective (I’m an agnostic). I use it only as a
            general term to describe whatever it is that people recognize as the
            consciousness or life force that begins a life. 
            Although the pro-life cause is very strong in religious circles, the
            idea of protecting

            the life that forms in a pregnancy is no more dependent on
            religious guidelines and thinking than protecting a child from abuse is.  All people, whether religious, agnostic or
            atheist make determinations and draw lines around moral codes and the sanctity
            of human life. One doesn’t need religion to see the fetus as a life deserving
            of protection, nor is it forcing the “will of god” on people to lobby to change
            abortion laws. There is much similarity found in the ending of slavery. Religious
            groups mostly drove the abolitionist movement, but freeing slaves did not
            amount to imposing the “will of god” on people. It amounted to doing something
            that was morally right.

             

            You are right that the history of “abortion rights” is
            intertwined, in part by its overlapping with the sexual revolution and women’s
            rights in the workplace, to women’s rights as a whole and therefore many people
            still cling its preservation as a keystone to women’s rights but I think you
            are wrong in assuming that reversing women’s rights is what drives most
            pro-lifers. I think their concern is much more transparent. They believe what’s
            in the womb after conception is a life and they don’t want to see that life
            murdered. Also note that about ½ of US women polled on abortion consider
            themselves pro-life, which also puts to rest the fallacy that the pro-life
            movement is an attempt by males to regulate something they don’t understand or
            are unaffected by. http://www.gallup.com/poll/162548/americans-misjudge-abortion-views.aspx

             

             

            I agree with you that abortions would still happen if
            abortion was outlawed and there would be many difficult problems including how
            the law would approach enforcement (as mentioned by Jimino above) an increase
            in teenage moms and the “back alley” abortion. All of these would be very
            trying issues. However, that doesn’t change the moral equation, anymore than
            the difficulties of war, reconstruction, and continued racism could have been
            reasons not to end slavery.

             

            As to late term abortions, if accept laws preventing them
            (with the certain exceptions) then you are still “getting between a woman and
            her doctor,” and “ruling somebody’s uterus,” at that point. Holding your nose
            while allowing those laws doesn’t change anything.  The “privacy, controlling the uterus” critique
            can’t only be applied against people who draw a different line in the sand than
            you as to where life starts.  As long as
            the baby is still in the womb, if it applies to them it applies to you.

             

            That certainly sounds like it was a difficult situation for
            your sister and sounds to me like it would be a reasonable exception for a late
            term abortion.

          • jimino

            So you would require homicide detectives to investigate so-called miscarriages like they would the unexpected  death of a 3-year old?  And of course all doctors (if not all persons) would be required to report conceptions just like we currently do births to make sure all of those pre-birth lives are protected, right?  If not, why not? 

          • RobertLongView

            Good luck buying life insurance for that unborn fetus.  

          • HonestDebate1

            You can be charged with two murders for killing a pregnant woman.

          • jefe68

            What? So if father wants to abuse his daughter that’s his business?

            I think you might want to rethink that idea.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        Call me when you’re pregnant.

        You’ve already identified yourself as a male who has no problem inserting yourself between a woman and her doctor, dumbas.

        • pete18

          Then using your logic you must be in favor of revoking Roe vs Wade since that was ruled on by an all male court and the legal pronouncements of a uterus-free judiciary cannot possibly hold any legal weight on such a matter.

    • https://www.facebook.com/kyle.rose Kyle Rose

      I live in Massachusetts. SoCons don’t exist here. And abortions would be legal and readily available here even if Roe vs. Wade were overturned.

      But even if that weren’t true, I still wouldn’t vote for Democrats just to maintain one freedom at the cost of 100 more. Neither party represents me, and I refuse to vote for the lesser of two evils, if it’s even possible to choose which one is less bad nowadays. I opt out, and I wish more people would, instead of choosing a team and rah-rah-rah!ing all the way to hell.

      People like you are the worst part of democratic politics because you demand nothing of your own team in return for your vote other than that they be slightly better than the other team. That dynamic is precisely why we’ve had a race to the bottom.

      • J__o__h__n

        Opting out instead of voting for the lesser of two evils is not a good choice.  Was Bush only a marginally worse president than Gore would have been? 

        • https://www.facebook.com/kyle.rose Kyle Rose

          Probably. As we’ve seen with Obama’s prosecution of Bush’s wars, there is no reason to believe Gore wouldn’t have also gone full-retard on the War on Terror following 9/11.

          Regardless, what you are advocating with the lesser of two evils is a no-win situation with perpetual decline as the only possible outcome. Nothing I do in the voting booth will change that, so the US political system will have to go there without my help. I’m not asking you to adopt my approach, but stop telling me how I should vote, as if it’s the most important thing in the world. It’s really annoying, especially the implication that I’m just too dumb to figure out that you’re right after all and that the Democrats would be the savior of the US if only they would have uncontested power over those ebil, ebil Rethuglicans. I really hope you don’t do this with your friends.

          I’d rather spend my time and energy advocating for change, and being a good friend, neighbor, and family man. To paraphrase Wargames, the only way to win a game like this is not to play.

          • jefe68

            Less than 50% of the people eligible to vote in most elections. So in some ways I understand your sentiment. But if more and more people do not vote then the special interest wins and democracy loses.

            We are heading for a, I’ll rephrase that we are fast becoming a plutocracy ruled by special interest.

            The tea party GOP wing has proven they are unfit to govern, as doing nothing other than making government useless and ineffective serves no purpose other than letting powerful interest prevail, such as the Koch Brothers.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            It’s so easy to pretend the parties are the same when the person opting out is a straight white male living in a state like MA.

            Somewhere, a Koch brother is laughing at you.

          • https://www.facebook.com/kyle.rose Kyle Rose

            When you’re done with the name calling, please rejoin us at the adults’ table.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            Hilarious stuff. Keep earning that “Libertarians are going to save us all” badge.

          • https://www.facebook.com/kyle.rose Kyle Rose

            Well, you’ve already got the “attack reflexive leftist bogeyman” achievement locked up, so what am I to do?

        • kagaby

          we will never know. but chances are Gore would have read a PDF titled “Bin Laden determined to strike within US” instead of ignoring it and demoting Richard A. Clarke. 

          • pete18

             And then what would he have done after reading it?

      • jefe68

        You don’t know if this guy demands of his party, that’s if he’s a Democrat.

        By the way, in my view if you don’t vote complaining about stuff is a bit much. Go ahead, opt out but don’t come on a forum and act all high and mighty. Because you sir are the problem, not the solution.

        • https://www.facebook.com/kyle.rose Kyle Rose

          I could write something long in rebuttal, but George Carlin put it much better than I could:

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk

          Start concentrating around the 1:45 mark.

          • Steve__T

            I still vote, but I have had a bumper sticker “Don’t blame me I didn’t vote for HIM”

          • hennorama

            Giving this a ‘Like’ solely on the basis of reminding us of the absolute comic genius of the late, lamented George Carlin.

          • jefe68

            I love Carlin and he’s right on some levels and wrong on others. 
            I vote. I think it’s important and if more people think like you do, and Carlin, then don’t complain when you wake up one day and you have lost more rights than you have already.

          • https://www.facebook.com/kyle.rose Kyle Rose

            Advocacy is far more important than voting. Voting is almost entirely pointless with the choices we have.

            Tell me, which candidate should I vote for if I’m against civil forfeiture? eminent domain? the surveillance state? confiscatory tax rates? border controls? the banking cartel? the drug war? militarization of police? foreign wars? foreign military bases? tariffs on imports?

          • jefe68

            Advocacy is a good thing. But so is voting.
            You make a lot of good points and I find myself agreeing with some of them.

            Case in point. I voted for Obama, and did so with some reluctance but John McCain and Sarah Palin were so abhorrent as is the GOP, that I voted for him. 

            I knew he was centrist and was a not surprised that he kept all the Bush era post 9/11 security measures  in place.

            I had hoped some of them would be thrown out, but the opposite has happened. 

            So on one level you are correct that it does not matter who is elected into office as the security apparatus seems to be an entity in and of itself.

            I too am concerned about the militarization of the police. Which was really scary to watch when the city of Boston and surrounding towns were shut down by them. 

            As to the banking cartel, well how other than government can break them up? As was done by FDR’s administration. 

            You do make some very valid points.
            But I still vote.
            Mind you the way the mayor race is going for Boston I’m not seeing much of a choice.       

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        You don’t vote?

        Nuf ced.

        Except for you imagining I’ve never had a bad thing to say about Democrats like Joe Lieberman, Manchin, and others. But I’ll leave you to your delusion.

        • https://www.facebook.com/kyle.rose Kyle Rose

          Unlike you, I don’t just give away my vote to the lesser of two evils. If they want my vote, they have to earn it.

          I’m in the large and growing block of people who are up for grabs if only someone would actually appeal to liberty and federalism and small government.

          Make them earn your vote. Don’t just give it away.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            Again: You can’t imagine I’ve never had a bad thing to say about Lieberman, Manchin, Landreiu, military-industrial complex and farm-bill Dems.

            Nuf ced.

          • https://www.facebook.com/kyle.rose Kyle Rose

            And yet I’m willing to bet in a race between Lieberman, Manchin, Landrieu, or farm-bill Democrats versus any Republican, you would vote for the Democrat. Thus proving my point that the Dems don’t need to earn your vote. Of course I have no way of proving it, but… we all know.

      • John Cedar

        I live in New York. SoCons don’t exist here. And abortions would be
        legal and readily available here even if Roe vs. Wade were overturned. New York voters are not dumb enough to put Teddy in power for years on end but they are the next dumbest lot.

        I never started voting until a few years ago. Always assuming that in my home state, my vote would be canceled by the freestuff crowd, times ten. But then I saw the primary outcome in my determined by less than 1000 votes. On top of that, I was motivated by seeing Obama do even worse than I imagined he would do, with his scammulus and healthcare deform.

        But I never held my breath and stomped my feet, as you are doing. It was simply the misguided thought that my one vote was irrelevant, which kept me from voting. You cannot have a custom representative tailored to your liking but you can still participate in tailoring them.

        • https://www.facebook.com/kyle.rose Kyle Rose

          One vote will never make the difference in a general election: if it’s that close, the courts will decide.

          But that’s not even my main reason for not voting. (For the record, I do typically vote, just not for either major party candidate: I voted for Gary Johnson in 2012, for instance.) I don’t vote for major party candidates because I generally don’t want either of them. If I felt like a candidate was worth voting *for*, I’d give them my vote. But if my only reason to vote for one candidate is to avoid the greater evil of the other, then I’m just going to sit on my hands and demand that someone start producing better candidates.

          My vote is there for the taking: someone just needs to offer an acceptable candidate. I have a higher standard for my vote than you all evidently do.

    • Steve__T

       That statement reminded me of the song “What it’s Like by Everlast” a potent reminder of passing judgement on others.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMYz5SteBBY

      • Brailleyard

        Wow. That takes me back.

  • tbphkm33

    I hate to point this out, but if you want to see the real colors of the Republican Party – just read some of the comments here today.  Paranoia, xenophobia, racism and protectionism (etc.) all coming out of the woodwork.  

    One would hate to think this is the “real” America.  

    Congratulations on so colorfully representing the “Not So Grand Old Party.”  Once again, showing that the rightwing’s worse enemy is themselves.  Embracing finger pointing and extremism instead of a constructive ideas forward.  No wonder the U.S. Congress is in such ill repute.  

    Imagine what this country can become once the old white male Tea Party membership departs this world.   

    — LOL, that should get a few of the trolls fired up :)  Sorry for pointing out the “old sick and decrepit elephant” in the room :)

  • kenrubenstein

    I am so awfully tired of hearing politicians talk about strategies for staying in power, branding, and other memes of what I think of as corporate politics. I think of Lyndon Johnson and his very politically risky push for civil rights legislation because he knew it was the right thing to do, even though he knew it would push the South into the Republican camp. Whatever became of the idealistic pragmatists who could support what’s right and and actually get the job done?

  • jefe68

    Reduce the power of government. I could say that’s also a false dichotomy. 

    How is it that a smaller government is going make corporations less powerful? Were is the historical context for your argument?

    Was it not sever decades of doing away with baking rules that lead to the huge financial melt down in 2008? 

    Government was pretty small during the Gilded Age/Robber Baron era. It was politicians such as Teddy Roosevelt who took on the special interest of the day.

    Good government is transparent and should work to make society better. It should work for the common good of society. 

    In your screed you go on about less regulation. So lets do away with all of them. No air, water or other pollution controls, no regulations on banking. No regulation on labor, including child labor laws. 

    Lets do away with all the health and safety regulations. Get rid of the NOAA and NASA while we are at it. 

    In fact lets undo every major government regulation going back to 1880.

    • https://www.facebook.com/kyle.rose Kyle Rose

      Sorry, is your contention that the banking industry was *unregulated* prior to the financial crisis? LOL.

      Government regulation is like an onion: when something goes wrong, just add another layer to the onion, and watch the unintended consequences fly. The onion-equivalent of the ending of Glass-Steagall was removing a single layer from the onion: all the other things that distort the banking industry, the most important of them the low interest rates and easy money that fuel bubbles, were still there.

      As for government transparency, could you tell me if the drone-striking, whistleblower-prosecuting, hyper-classifying, justice-obstructing Obama Adminstration is still claiming to be the “most transparent administration in history”? Orwell himself would be stunned at the newspeak.

      Tell me, are you even in favor of requiring Obama administration officials to testify before this Congress, you know, the one led by the ebil, ebil Rethuglicans? If not them, then who is going to question them adversarially?

      • jefe68

        It’s my contention that since the demise of the Glass Steagall act and other softening of government regulations in the banking and wall street sector that the 2008 financial collapse was bound to happen.

        You seem to think that a totally free market, which is the opposite of a regulated market will work. The problem is, history has proven this does not work so well.

        Are you in favor of the gold standard?

        • https://www.facebook.com/kyle.rose Kyle Rose

          In modern times there hasn’t been anything close to a free market in anything that matters: once some commodity or service becomes important to enough people, it is regulated to the point at which it is all but given to an oligopoly of politically well-connected providers. At this point, corruption and abuse are unavoidable.

          And I am very suspicious of the lessons learned from the simplistic 7th grade social studies approach to Standard Oil and the robber barons around the turn of the 20th century. As a result, I consider most accusations that a free market can’t work to be straw men.

          The closest thing the world has had to a free market in modern times was Hong Kong prior to 1997, when it was one of the most dynamic and high-growth places on earth. Low regulation, low taxes, and unobstrusive government made it that way.

          I believe in free banking: I think government should stay out of the money business, but as long as they don’t give their own currency any particular favors (e.g., through legal tender laws, taxation of other currencies in terms of their own, etc.), then they should feel free to print up whatever scrip they want. I don’t believe in a gold standard mainly because governments always screw it up: I’d rather the market for money just be open, so the market can itself choose the most useful money.

  • Regular_Listener

    It was interesting listening to Trende push aside concerns that the GOP might be in trouble because of its inability to do well with minority voters.  They don’t need to do better with Asians, Latinos, and Blacks, he maintained, they just need to do better with working class white folks.  Once again I see the delusional GOP beliefs shaping up – the problem is with the candidates, with the messaging.  They need another Reagan, another guy who can make a connection with low-income people.  None of them seem willing to even look at the possibility that the problem is not in their candidates – both Romney and Ryan are attractive, intelligent, well-spoken individuals – but in their policies, which are almost always contrary to the interests of anyone who is not financially well-off.

    • pete18

       Yeah, how are the poor and middle class doing with those Democratic policies?

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

    Keep making an ass out of you and you.

    I’m tired of hearing Libertarians tell us that fighting the Koch Bros is a non-partisan effort.

    • pete18

       Fighting the Koch brothers is in invented boogie straw man to raise money for the democratic party.

  • Brailleyard

    20 billion points to the caller at 40:00 minutes, while idyllic, your belief that our political discussions have devolved to a series of talking points designed to drive votes instead of records of action/plans for action to make this country a better place – was well recieved. At least here it was.

    I’m a proud black American, 1st generation immigrant, who believes American jobs have more to fear from app development and automated robots than they do undocumented immigrants.

    The Hispanic is community wants the same opportunity that every American does- if you can show them, not promise -alone- few will contend that you’d lose this demographic.

    P.s.- they’re American. Treat them like it…it may have interesting results.

  • ExcellentNews

    Go for diversity? Go white? You fools … the Republican Party has made their choice long ago and has chosen to stand for the 0.01% OLIGARCHY. Anything else is just words to fool the peons into voting inheritance tax cuts for their owners.

  • superpage

    From the point of view of a Democratic Party strategist, Sean Trende is a dream come true.  If the GOP follows his advice they will continue their downward demographic spiral.  He represents the refusal of a faction of the GOP to come to terms of a changing country.  He reinforces my view that the GOP stands for rich white men and parts of it refuse to change.  Keep on going Sean, your political advice will only serve to help the Democrats.  

ONPOINT
TODAY
Jul 29, 2014
The U.S. Senate is seen on Capitol Hill in Washington, Wednesday, July 16, 2014. (AP)

The “Do-Nothing” Congress just days before August recess. We’ll look at the causes and costs to the country of D.C. paralysis.

Jul 29, 2014
This April 28, 2010 file photo, shows the Colstrip Steam Electric Station, a coal-fired power plant in Colstrip, Mont. Colstrip figures to be a target in recently released draft rules from the Environmental Protection Agency that call for reducing Montana emissions 21 percent from recent levels by 2030. (AP)

A new sci-fi history looks back on climate change from the year 2393.

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Jul 28, 2014
U.S. Secretary of War Newton D. Baker watches as wounded American soldiers arrive at an American hospital near the front during World War I. (AP Photo)

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Jul 28, 2014
This June 4, 2014 photo shows a Walgreens retail store in Boston. Walgreen Co. _ which bills itself as “America’s premier pharmacy” _ is among many companies considering combining operations with foreign businesses to trim their tax bills. (AP)

American companies bailing out on America. They call it inversion. Is it desertion?

On Point Blog
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