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Small Knives And The TSA’s New Strategy

The TSA’s new strategy on airline security: Small knives are OK and so are “trusted” passengers. But who makes that list? And how?

A Transportation Security Administration officer directs a traveler to step through a metal detector at a security checkpoint at Baltimore-Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport in Linthicum, Md., Friday March, 1, 2013. (AP)

A Transportation Security Administration officer directs a traveler to step through a metal detector at a security checkpoint at Baltimore-Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport in Linthicum, Md., Friday March, 1, 2013. (AP)

Latest news from the TSA – the agency that provides airport security for America’s air travelers:  starting next month, knives will be allowed again as carry-on items in passenger airline cabins.  Just small ones.  Pocket knives.

But still, it will be the first time since 9.11 you could do that.  Golf clubs allowed again, too.  And pool cues and lacrosse sticks.  There’s pushback on this, but it’s part of a larger strategic shift from focusing on risky objects to focusing on risky people.  And that’s the bigger deal.

This hour, On Point:  knives on a plane, and which security line will you be put in?

-Tom Ashbrook

Guests

Susan Stellin, reporter covering technology, business, and travel for the New York Times.

Sara Nelson, vice president of the association of flight attendants.

Kip Hawley, head of the TSA from 2005 to 2009. Author of “Permanent Emergency: Inside the TSA and the Fight for the Future of American Security.” (@kiphawley)

Marc Rotenberg, president and executive director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center .

From Tom’s Reading List

The New York Times “Aviation security leaders are moving forward with plans to shift toward a risk-based system of passenger screening — an idea supported by the travel industry and government officials who want screeners to focus on travelers who may present a security threat.”

CNN “The Transportation Security Administration’s announcement last week that pocket knives and other previously prohibited items will be allowed in airline cabins starting in April has sparked an outcry among many concerned travelers, lawmakers and aviation professionals. The new rules won’t ease screening for passengers, some say, while adding an unnecessary threat to the safety of airline crews and passengers.”

Today “‘This cannot stand,’ Nelson told Matt Lauer about the announcement that knives would be allowed on board. ‘This has to change. They’re a deadly weapon, and they’re unnecessary. It is unnecessary to put these on our aircraft. After Sept. 11, the policy changed, and it changed for a reason.’”

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  • Michiganjf

    Small knives are okay, yet boxcutters were all that was needed on 9/11…

    … is there logic of any kind to anything the TSA does?

    I still can’t take an eight ounce bottle of water aboard in my carry-on!

    • Acnestes

      Sort of.  Pre-9/11, passengers and crew were supposed to go along with hijackers demands as that was thought likely to get you home safe eventually, which in fact it generally did.  That’s why they could pull of 9/11 with box cutters.  That wouldn’t happen today.

      • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

        exactly

      • Kathy

        Absolutely agree. Not only couldn’t it happen today, it didn’t even last through the entire day of 9/11 as demonstrated by Flight 93.

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      boxcutters are still banned. the real problem is that on 9/11 we solved the problem when the passangers crashed the 4th plane. no other action by the govt was needed the passengers mearly had to be informed the threat existed. the TSA is a boondoggle designed to make money off of fear for croneys like chertoff and his rapescanners. In the decade of their existance and with over 60,000 employees they have not caught one terrorist. lets end the charade

    • sickofthechit

       They have drinking fountains at airports, can’t you refill your bottle their?

    • Don_B1

      Apparently, they are not set up to test your water bottle’s contents to ensure it does not contain some liquid, which in combination with another liquid becomes explosive. A couple 8-oz bottles could contain a big explosive power.

      They are not set up to test because there are too many different chemicals to test for, and it would take too much time.

      • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

        so what you need to do is fill two one liter bottles with the liquid of your choice and write the words “contact lens solution” on the bottles. they may then be carried aboard any aircraft. if they hassle you as to why you need two one liter bottles of “contact lens solution” just tell em,”two eyes”. if you think the whole exercise is anything besides an experiment in social control known as “security theater” try what I said.

  • Fiscally_Responsible

    It is incomprehensible that anyone would propose allowing passengers to bring any kind of weapon on board an aircraft, given what our nation experienced on on 9/11.  One really has to wonder who comes up with ideas like this.  Did anyone review this proposal to see if it passes the “red face test”? (it doesn’t).  A policy change proposal such as this makes it easy to understand why many people question the wisdom and effectiveness of government and want its size and impact reduced as much as possible.  Will there be a follow up policy change from the Dept of Education that will now allow kids to bring small knives to school, since small knives have been deemed by the TSA to no longer be a threat to safety?

    • http://twitter.com/Dragonsong73 Eric R. Duncan

      Wait a minute proposed changes to expedite TSA process come after sequestration starts and fewer agents are in airports causing backups (IE the smaller govt you are asking for) and now you dont like the reduced service you are getting from an underfunded govt agency?

      Where is my Picard Facepalm picture ohh here it is.

      http://picardfacepalm.com/picard-facepalm-hotlink.jpg

      • Gregg Smith

        The is a result of sequestration? Really?

        • http://twitter.com/Dragonsong73 Eric R. Duncan

          Yup.

          http://www.fiercehomelandsecurity.com/story/sequestration-cuts-595m-cbp-396m-tsa-295m-ice/2013-03-04

          to the tune of 400 million most of which is aviation security.

          http://www.wbur.org/npr/173437507/napolitano-airport-lines-have-seen-150-to-200-percent-increase-since-sequester

          another one for you.

          i have zero doubts this was part of the contingency plan most federal agencies have been developing should sequestration occur.

          • Gregg Smith

            But we are spending more than last year even after the sequester. The TSA just ordered $50 million in new uniforms.

            We should privatize the TSA.

          • http://twitter.com/Dragonsong73 Eric R. Duncan

            Would you mind showing me where you got your numbers that we are spending more?

          • Gregg Smith

            The sequester is a slow down in the rate of growth, not a cut. It was projected we would increase spending by 17% but now will only increase it by 12% (about $15 billion).

            ” Republicans can be forgiven for asking what hardships most Americans can expect to face if sequestration actually allows spending to rise another $15 billion next year. “

            http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/02/opinion/how-obama-overplayed-his-hand-on-the-sequester.html

          • http://twitter.com/Dragonsong73 Eric R. Duncan

            Off the specific topic. Please provide numbers about TheTSA as we are speaking specifically about that one agency.

          • Gregg Smith

            I don’t know the actual budget of the TSA. I just claim we are spending more than last year. If the TSA budget has actual cuts then some other program got an even bigger increase.

            It’s a sham, every problem under the sun will be blamed on the sequester. Resist the urge to buy into it.

            http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/03/05/Napolitano-Misinforms-Public-by-Claiming-Sequester-Caused-Long-Airport-Lines

          • http://twitter.com/Dragonsong73 Eric R. Duncan

             1st i dont think this change is a problem. Second, you don’t seem to have any real support for your position  on this particular topic

          • Gregg Smith

            My position is we are spending more, we are.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

             Breitbart?

            You never learn, do you?

          • http://twitter.com/Dragonsong73 Eric R. Duncan

            We will spend more than we did last year so long as A) the economy grows even anemically B) fed spending is a % of the total economy.

            The two are tied.

            And again a red herring to the topic at hand this specific agency.

          • Gregg Smith

            I don’t have a problem with the change in law but it has nothing to do with the sequester. Obama himself proposed cuts to the TSA before the sequester. I understand we have veered off topic. We will spend more after the sequester. It doesn’t matter what the economy does. Real solutions are not possible if we can’t even freeze spending much less cut it.

          • http://twitter.com/Dragonsong73 Eric R. Duncan

             Thats where we disagree the country is not a micro econimics structure to keep assuming  that cutting /reducing is the only solution or appropriate in a weak economic period is folly.

          • Gregg Smith

            .

          • Don_B1

            Gregg considers it his mission here to insert red herrings and almost always has no support for any data, unless it is a referenceto a site which makes up its data.

          • Gregg Smith

            The entire sequester is a red herring. We will spend $15 billion more than last year.

          • sickofthechit

             I think you mean “Profitize” don’t you?  That’s what cheney/bush did with military/halliburton/blackwater/Qx or whatever they call themselves now.  It costs us hundreds of billions. It’s the same thing Congressional Republicans are trying to do to the Post Office.  If you think the Post Office should be privatized I suggest you take a letter, a small package and a large package to USPS< UPS and Fed Ex and see for yourselves the difference in cost. 

          • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

            lets make the airlines pay for their own security and then the prices will reflect it. why should my tax dollars be spent to touch a mans balls so he can fly somewhere?  he should have to pay for his own ball touching if he wants to fly or be free to choose to fly unmolested and accept whatever rish that poses. we are currently paying 60,000 TSA agents with tax money why should we have any?

          • Gregg Smith

            I didn’t say that. We can’t spend 25% of GDP with a country that is out of work. We haven’t cut anything, we won’t. I can’t even advocate a freeze without being told I want to shrink government. The spending is nuts but there is no way to cut enough spending to matter. It’s beyond that.

      • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

        i think jordy laforge could see that security is a joke and want an update of his visor so he could be a naked scanner. i am all for cutting the tsa 100% i can’t believe anyone who flys would be upset about this

        • http://twitter.com/Dragonsong73 Eric R. Duncan

          Honestly I think the TSA and Homeland security should go. To live in fear and in a Panopticon is to allow those who don’t like us too much power over our national agenda and our individual lives. Didn’t some President around 9/11 say we should continue living our lives as we had before. I’d much rather spend the money on education and infrastructure. However the OP was filled with such a poorly reasoned attempt to push the bathtub drowning government idea. Picard seemed appropriate.

          • sickofthechit

             That same “president” also put us even more at risk with his statement to the terrorists when he told them, “Bring it on”.  That same “president” who wasted hundreds of billlions of $ pursuing a family grudge.  Please don’t tell me the world is better off without Sadam Hussein, try telling that to the parents and families of the soldiers who lost their lives or suffered injuries in Iraq.

          • http://twitter.com/Dragonsong73 Eric R. Duncan

            As someone whose brother did 3 tours in Iraq it was a foolish thing for us to go there it fell into the same bad expectations of most Euro American interactions in that region have been, a waste of lives. So you are talking about me in that last sentence, and I don’t want you speaking for me thank you. I don’t disagree with criticizing that president I did however want to point out that in this case the divide between what he said and what happened.

          • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

            dont tell me the world is better off with chertoffs rapescanners sitting in a warehouse

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      kids are already allowed  to use scissors, scalpels(biology) and small knives(art class) at school.  should we be trusted more or less than children?
      whats the red face test?

      • Fiscally_Responsible

        The rest face test means to propose something that is reasonable in most people’s minds such that you can seriously present it to people without blushing.

        • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

          so you can say a 2in knife is a serious threat to national security with a straight face? wow

      • Fiscally_Responsible

        My point was that since we make such a big deal over kids displaying any sort of potential violence (e.g. forming their hand into a gun and pointing it at someone), why would we allow people to board airplanes with small knives that could serve as a weapon to enact a hijacking?

        • sickofthechit

          Someone watched Bill ORielly last night. Odd how Bill couldn’t or wouldn’t take the time to tell what date each of those incidents happened. He made it seem like it was this year, but I doubt it.

        • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

          and you think making a big deal about kids pointing at people is smart and something we should expand to other aspects of our lives? how is someone going to get into the cockpit with their tiny knife?

  • TrueAdventure

    Nothing to do with today’s show, but highly recommend watching a video about aluminum. It just aired in Europe yesterday and is available online
    http://videos.arte.tv/de/videos/die-akte-alu–7367250.html
    Unfortunately it’s only available in German and French

    • ToyYoda

      Well how are we suppose to understand it?  Can you give us a summary?

  • ToyYoda

    I know people who travel by air so much that they are on a first name / conversational basis with TSA guards and airline staff, at several airports!

    These commuters would tell me that many times they could skip the security check lines and scans.

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      the truth is everyone could skip the TSA and we would all be perfectly safe or just as safe as when we were not flying

  • Coastghost

    With this new and improved ruling from the TSA: will airlines retain the right to prohibit carry-ons of short-bladed weapons? Or will all airlines be compelled to comply with the policy? If any airline’s management declines to accept the TSA ruling, passengers will then make their own determinations about who to entrust with their own cabin safety; similarly, flight attendants can flock towards the airlines that take their safety perhaps more seriously.

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      i would love if there was a choice between being molested and being able to fly free. i would choose to fly free and so would millions of americans. lets let the airlines pay for their own security and the market can decide what level of security the consumer desires. anyone who feels a 2in kinfe is a real danger to their lives should just lock themselves in their homes and never leave just to be safe

  • Shag_Wevera

    What a great idea.  Let’s make things more complicated.  How can anyone be expected to fly without a small knife?

  • http://www.facebook.com/kyle.rose Kyle Rose

    All this extra security is pointless. The lesson we all learned from 9/11 is for passengers not to be passive against hijackers, but to immediately and forcefully confront them (disabling and/or killing them) with the purpose of not allowing them to gain control of the plane. That kind of attack will never succeed again.

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      and we did not need any legislation or executive orders to solve the problem

  • Jeff_in_Connecticut

    I wonder what the NRA’s opinion would be on any kind of weapon being allowed on an airplane?  Are all the “good guys” now going to feel compelled to bring a knife to defend against the “bad guys”?

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      so now people carry 2 inch knives as weapons? get real, most people carry two inch knives so they can open packages of things.  They are often included as part of a corkscrew (also now unbanned, the horror). i saw a poor flight attendant struggling to open a case of waters with the little plastic wings they give to children pathetically one day she said “this is all we can have”  i don’t know what the NRAs opinion is but i think the whole idea of stripping people of their arms to fly is absurd. without the TSA you would be exactly as safe on an airplane as you are on a bus or a train or just walking down the street or anywhere else in public. explosive decompression from gun shots is a myth and the cockpit doors are bulletproof.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      Somewhere, someone has seriously already posted that “I’ll need my gun on board so I can shoot someone with a penknife.”

      Remember all the crap we heard about arming everyone on planes as a “solution”?

  • Bluejay2fly

    I remember flying first class on numerous occasions where I was give a steel knife and fork to eat with ;and its also located directly in front of the cockpit. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

    how can we focus on the real threat of shampoo? its all bs anyways. its mearly the illusion of security to begin with. the planes were no longer able to be forcably hijacked once they hardened the cockpit doors. more than that we are safe now because american citizens understand the threat and now know to act accordingly. that that took place on 9/11 before the 4th plane could be used as a weapon, it required no legislation or executive orders or any government actions of any kind all it required was informing the american people about what was happening. i cant believe that the american people have been fooled into accepting naked scanners and patdowns in order to travel in their own country. its like something out of a bad science fiction story. I used to joke that they would make us fly naked one day, I never thought it would actually happen.

  • brettearle

    Flying on commercial airlines, these days, is fraught with anxiety and impatience.

    Why ratchet it up, even more–by relaxing restrictions on blades?

    It’s like allowing a town to add bacteria to its water treatment process or permitting meat-packing plants to increase  nitrosamines in the Deli cuts.

    To implement a policy that might, theoretically (even though only slightly), increase the possibility of a  9/11-like incident again, is to, on some level, disparage the legacy of those innocents who lost their lives that day.  

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      i think at least some of those people would have seen how foolish the policy of banning 2 inch knives was. how could it cause another 911?

  • astrom1970

    I don’t want to be made to remove my shoes and those of my 5 year-old daughters every time I want to fly somewhere. The whole world is laughing at this.

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      not to mention the rapid spread of foot fungus

  • northeaster17

    Thru the ages, fighting the last war has always been popular. Successful…Not so much

  • JobExperience

    Trapped on the tarmack waiting for furloughed controllers passengers can now whittle, play mumbly-peg, leave initials and love hearts on flat surfaces, and perform a variety of mechanical and craft activities depending upon implements provided in their particular knife model. All inventions and discoveries become the property of the parent corporation of the carrier in question. Flight attendents will now move up and down the aisles vending a selection from Barlow, Case and Swiss Army. Prices range from $25 to $200, and exact change is always appreciated.

  • JobExperience

    Charlotte NC boasts that TSA finds 4 or 5 guns on passengers or in carry-ons each day at their international airport. This proves they are a Big City. If the NRA headquarters relocates to Charlotte they will get $300 million in perks over a decade. Auctioneers will then fly free on hub airlines to auction off the pile of guns TSA finds. Passengers are free to sell and trade firearms in flight without background checks. Since decompression is a myth, gunports will be provided at premium window seats to allow bird hunting.

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      sounds like fun. that would be a good way to prevent to planes from hitting the birds and crashing

  • Government_Banking_Serf

    Discretion, good old Discretion.

    Works for financial favors and market manipulation by technocrats and Wall St. pals, works for knives.

    Rule of Law is so……  1700′s!

    • J__o__h__n

      Laws have always been tempered by discretion.  Robotically applying laws isn’t a magic solution to all problems.  Discretion needs to be monitored to prevent abuses (like no bankers being sent to jail).  Mandatory minimum sentences have been a failure. 

      • Government_Banking_Serf

        The pendulum is way off.

        • Government_Banking_Serf

          Should I go on a Glen Greenwald, Bill Black, Ron Paul, Mises posting spree again to highlight the notions of Rule of Law and how the lack of it contributed to the Financial Disaster and Zero Accountability except for the Bail Out Tax bill?

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            You seem to be carrying on a conversation all by yourself.

            I do admire your ability to type (or cut ‘n’ paste) sentences in what seems to be your current state hypercaffienation. How many Super Big Gulps of Mountain Dew did you have yesterday?

          • Government_Banking_Serf

            Coffee with heavy cream. No refined flours/sugars for me. Thanks for your concern.

      • Government_Banking_Serf

        Whoa. No bankers sent to jail IS the result of Discretion.  Manipulating our currency to fuel the housing bubble WAS discretion.

        Put discretion in the hands of the powerful and what do you expect?

        Of course we can’t have 0 Discretion, but people need to re-examine what Discretion and Rule of Law mean when it comes to governance and economics and politics.

        I would give more discretion to individuals and less and less as you go up the power structure.

        Rule of Law is the concept that civilized humanity came up with to check the excesses of Discretion.

        Its too bad people demonize anything that a libertarian might say these days, regardless of the empirical truth or value.

      • nj_v2

        That’s Leather Dave from Connecticut and a million other handles you’re talking to. He has fully imbibed the Libertarian-flavored Kool-Aide. “Rule of law” is just one on the many rote, simple-minded, canned responses that can be regurgitated at any issue. Pull the string, the same thing comes out.

        • Government_Banking_Serf

          Come on Wilson, you can provide more substance than that. Give us your take on Discretion vs. Rule of Law, what it means, what the problems are, and how we prevent it…. role in Financial Crises, etc.

          Didn’t think so. Life on the island too relaxing for such rigor? 

  • ccbard

    A 250-pound linebacker could harm passengers with hands alone; do the fearful only want to fly with the weak? 

    • JobExperience

      So do you weigh 250 plus and have  deadly hands?

    • DrewInGeorgia

      What makes you think you have to be “A 250-pound linebacker”? Shows how much you know about what as little as twelve pounds of pressure can do to the human body when applied in the proper places.

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      yes but he will have to pay for 2 seats

  • J__o__h__n

    I’m surprised they are ending the ban rather than still banning your own knives but allowing you to purchase more expensive ones in the airport. 

    • JobExperience

      A patdown or a lapdance? A lapdance  or a patdown? I can’t decide. Water or a knife? A knife or water? I can’t make up my mind. Ah! The myriad of choices provided by the free market. Help me choose! Help me choose! Help me choose! (Heard at an airport MacDonalds.)

      • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

        “they said i had too many toothpicks!” overheard at exit of checkpoint

  • JobExperience

    “Big Jim lay covered up, murdered by a penknife in the back.”
    Bob Dylan – Lily, Rosemary and the Jack of Hearts

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      Did you hear Bob Dylan was elected to the American Academy of Arts and Letters?

      NPR segued into the first few bars of “Like A Rolling Stone” during the news, and I thought to myself “Bob Dylan’s dead, isn’t he?”

      Glad to be wrong.

      • JobExperience

        He went to satellite radio which is almost like dying.
        Ask Bob Edwards.

  • DeJay79

    I am fine with it. finding risky people should be the goal. too many times Zero Tolerance policies have gone wrong.

    how many stories have we heard of kids who at this point just have to draw a picture of a gun and they get suspended from school.

    • JobExperience

      “finding risky people is the goal”? I gotta remember that one. And all this  time I was wondering why we were put here on Earth. Now I know a war of all against all was intended. If I were an Oligarch keeping my underlings confused your assessment would warm my heart. Paranoia reigns. (See “discretion” comment by Goverment Banking Serf below.)

  • Government_Banking_Serf

    Did or did not the hijackers use box-cutters?

    • Saul B

      That’s irrelevant. What if they’d used a shorn soda can? Or lens glass? Or drinking glass? Or their own fists?

      Someone armed with a blade is not getting into a cockpit again.

      • Government_Banking_Serf

        That’s a relief. 10 hijackers can kill the whole cabin, but at least the plane lands.

        But lets ban soda!

        • Saul B

          Why is the threat any more severe on a plane than in any other enclosed space where many people get together? The T? Buses? Restaurants? Theaters?

          • Government_Banking_Serf

            I don’t know, it just empirically seems to be.

          • Government_Banking_Serf

            On the other hand, if you push hard enough, I could say, if we are all armed equally, we have a better chance of stopping the accosters, but most folks here don’t like those arguments.

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      boxcutters will remain a prohibited item so you can feel safe still

  • Government_Banking_Serf

    Finally, Benevolent Dictators can run the world through Google!

  • Darryl Pendergrass

    If they thought that a Wiffle ball bat was a dangerous weapon, then they might think that an 8 year-old Cub Scout is a dangerous person.

    Do you feel safe now that someone can travel with those little plastic sticks of death in the cabin now?

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      that bolo tie could be a weapon we are going to have to take it

  • Jonah_in_Virginia

    The system doesn’t make much sense to me.  Knives will be OK on aircraft, but they’ll continue to make incontinent elderly remove their Depends and snatch teddy bears from children.  All this, while Homeland Security doesn’t know, and apparently doesn’t want to know, who has assault weapons in this country. Spying on US citizens seems to be the goal whomever’s in charge has wanted all along.

    • Government_Banking_Serf

      TSA and Homeland Security are political fronts to look like government is doing something, while providing a new agency for all the career politicians to play with.

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      they know where a lot of the AR15s are because they have so many

  • sickofthechit

    Why can’t people with knives simply turn them over at security where they would then be routed to their flight for disbursement on disembarkation?  When I enter my local courthouse I have to turn over my pocket knife where it is logged and bagged then returned to me as I leave.

    • Saul B

      Because a swiss army knife is a tool. It is no more a weapon than any number of everyday items that can be turned into lethal weapons in the right hands.

  • Government_Banking_Serf

    The speed with which we hurtling toward complete abandonment of Constitutional principles is horrifying.

    We really are accepting a model of total centralized control for the purported sake of the greater good.  It sure is going to be ugly when the wrong folks get their hands on the wheel.

    • DrewInGeorgia

      When “the wrong folks get their hands on the wheel.”

      Phew, the past three decades must have been a figment of my imagination. There’s still time…

  • DeJay79

    can we get just a bit more static on her phone line?

    I can almost hear her at some points.

  • sickofthechit

    This “rapid pass” idea is terrible.  Just another chance to separate the classes.  If we are serious about “Safety” then get over yourselves, stand in line and realize the world we created requires that we are inconvenienced every once in a while.

    • http://www.facebook.com/kyle.rose Kyle Rose

      Spoken like a true slaver.

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      sucker

  • sickofthechit

    I personally don’t think we should be allowed any carry-ons whatsoever.  There is nothing more obnoxious than the self important person dragging their bulky carry-ons down the aisle making everyone else clear the way so they can save 10 or 15 minutes at arrival.  Slow down, enjoy the experience of flying.  It can be fun!

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      you must not fly much.

  • ToyYoda

    I read in Israel, that passengers don’t have to take off their shoes, nor do they have fancy  body scanners.  Israel is surrounded by hostile neighbors, yet they have an airport security system that is much less intrusive than in the USA.  Why can’t we model our security after Israel?

    Here’s an interesting article:

    http://www.internationalpolicydigest.org/2012/06/19/what-israeli-airport-security-teaches-the-world/

    • Saul B

      Passengers transiting Tel Aviv airport also face a potentially invasive interrogation about the most intimate aspects of their lives.

      That’s hardly “much less intrusive”.

      Is that what you want here?

      • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

        we already have it

    • JobExperience

       Apartheid has screening value.

  • AC

    what’s the big deal? i carry a 4″ smith & wesson knife all the time; you just put it in your checked bags…..

    • DeJay79

       I frequently fly with no check bag. I just don’t need one and it saves time and headaches. But i still might want a pocket knife.

      • BHA_in_Vermont

         Right. $25 to check a bag ONLY because you have a 1.5″ pocket knife is pretty expensive.

        • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

          thats cheap sometimes its $50 or $75

  • http://www.facebook.com/scott.dillman.1 Scott Dillman

    I need something to cut rope and other things for my work. I travel from job site to job site.  It is expensive to check a bag each time I travel.  It is inconvenient to buy a knife each time I reach my destination and then throw it away or give it away.  A small “leatherman” would be good enough.

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      sorry scott they are too afraid of you

  • BHA_in_Vermont

    This would have been helpful 3 months earlier.

    My 20 year old daughter (who still gets mistaken for a 14 year old) almost lost a VERY SMALL pink Swiss Army knife that had been my mother’s (she died 10 years ago). She hadn’t thought about the knife, it was in her computer bag. TSA didn’t find it in San Francisco. They found it in Chicago only because she forgot to take her computer out of the bag so they sent the bag back through and hand searched the bag after removing the computer.

    THANKFULLY we were at an airport with a “mail your goods home” kiosk. Had the TSA officer not told us about the possibility, we would not have known the option of “mail or trash” was available. It cost us $15 to keep the knife and she had plenty of emotional trauma with the original realization that she would lose it. Imagine the trauma if she had lost one of the few things she has from her grandmother. An HONEST mistake by someone who would not be a threat.

    With regard to being “in line” with other countries:
    2 years ago, my younger daughter and I went on a school trip to Greece. We had to take our shoes off at JFK to fly to Greece but not in Athens for the return trip. The “shoe bomber” boarded a flight TO the USA.

  • DeJay79

    Tom’s got many knives!

    Tom I have some one to the TSA also. I hated having to give it up because I might cut somebody. crazy

  • matt p.

    We’re in a confined area 30k feet in the air. I don’t want weapons like a knife on a plane. 2-3 people could take people hostage in the air and force the pilots to open the cabin door. Is it that big of a deal to check for knives? Is it that important to give people the right to have knives? Who’s running the show at TSA, that’s crazy talk.

    • Saul B

      Matt, any number of everyday objects can be turned into weapons.

      Perhaps paranoid passengers shouldn’t be allowed to fly commercial planes.

      • matt p.

        Well, lets eliminate the more deadly ones, yes. I tell you what, you sit next to the guy/gal who is carrying the knife and decides you should go first. Or why don’t we just let people on planes with guns, according to Saul that would be ok, right?

        • Saul B

          So shouldn’t pocketknives be banned too from theaters? From crowded restaurants? From the T? That same crazed person could be sitting next to you in any of those places. Are these items suddenly more dangerous in a plane cabin?

          • matt p.

             Yes, it is. You’re on a plane! Have you heard of 9/11?

          • Saul B

            And no passenger is getting into the cockpit anymore.

            So what’s your point?

          • matt p.

             Says who? Better to be cautious then risk it. Do you NEED a knife on a plane?

          • Saul B

            Do you need a laptop? A camera lens? A heavy book?

            All of those can be used as lethal weapons as well.

            Do you ride the T? Are you petrified that your fellow passengers have blades? If so, shouldn’t pocketknives be banned from the T too?

          • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

            says the people who tested the cockpit doors with .45 pistols. does a human need anything besides food water and warm air? do you need to fly if you are so afraid of tiny knives how can you muster the courage to fly through the air at 35,000 feet at 350 mph? how did need become the standard for what an american may do or have?

          • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

            we need “knife control” and universal background checks permits and mandatory education classes for all those nuts who want knives in their pockets! do it for the children!

        • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

          in that case you would be exactly as safe as you were on the bus or train you took to get to the airport!

        • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

          i’ll take the risk

      • BHA_in_Vermont

        I have wondered about this. You read spy novels, they pull a very thin wire out of their belt and strangle someone.

        Would the TSA screeners be able to find such a thing if it were carefully placed in a leather belt when it was sewn together?

        Could one use a piece of monofilament fishing line for the same purpose? No x-ray machine will pick that up.

        I presume I’m not giving up any “Gee we never thought of THAT!” ideas to terrorists. ;)

        Maybe we need federally mandated “no bag check fees”, food available for sale inside the secure area of the airport at “could make it at home for the same money” prices and “Naked Airlines” (they provide the towels to sit on).  Check EVERYTHING :-)

        • JobExperience

          Airport food workers could put files in our cake.

        • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

          just get a good small of the back holster for your pistol and you can take it right though the naked scanner as they do not detect metal and as long as it is flush to your body it will not be detected. or you could take whatever you want prison style and that will also not be detected by the scanners but i am sure a terrorist intent on blowing himself to bits would never put anything in their bum right?

      • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

        or give people a choice to fly with and without TSA we can let the market decide how strong peoples desire to be felt up is

        • Saul B

          Agreed. Why is the federal government providing security to passengers of private airlines?

          Let the airline execs decide the level of screening their passengers will endure, and let passengers choose which airlines they’ll fly.

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      if someone tries that on a plane i am on i am going to kick their ass. i bet most of the other passengers would as well. the pilots are not going to open that door for anything, thats now our policy which is smart after 911. i hear the TSA has stopped collecting the knives because they were so bad at it it was demonstrating what a sham the whole security theater exercise is when people get caught on their third or fourth trip with the same item or never get caught at all. “give people the right to knives” we are americans we already have that right and it does not come from the govt so they cannot give us that right anyways so thats crazy talk 

    • DrewInGeorgia

      You’d be amazed what a ballpoint pen can do. Or a toothbrush. or a pencil. But don’t let me hinder your patrol, let’s ban those too.

  • BHA_in_Vermont

    Regarding safety on board. Yes, I agree, we all want to be safe on board. But I really don’t think someone will again try to use a small blade on a commercial aircraft as a weapon if they can’t get to the cockpit. 

    • JobExperience

       But maybe if they can’t get to the toilet.

  • http://www.facebook.com/cobb.ed Ed Cobb

     If the policy is reversed, here’s a suggestion to benefit those who forget to leave their pocket knife at home:  When TSA takes your knife, let them give you a token to be used at the destination to select one of the knives collected there.

    • JobExperience

       And if you’re good you get a sucker.

    • ThirdWayForward

      Even better would be a system in which one could put the offending object in a marked envelope that one could pick up at the airport on the way home. More or less like a Lost and Found. Or provide mailing envelopes for mailing the object home. The USPS could have a special envelope with a flat rate.

      There are so many ways that the security inspections process could be humanized.

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      we could have one for old lady scissors and shampoo too!

    • DrewInGeorgia

      Sorry, you lost me at token. Anytime I hear coupon, voucher, or token my brain involuntarily shuts down.

  • nj_v2

    Guest, Ms Nelson, i think (paraphrasing): Before 9/11, the threat of using commercial planes as weapons wasn’t known.

    No, no, no, no!!

    This was the lie that Conjobdoleeza (who was shopping for shoes during the attacks) and the other BushCo hacks made after the attacks, trying to cover their butts.

    http://www.justiceblind.com/airplanes.html
    (9/11: THREATS ABOUT AIRPLANES AS WEAPONS PRIOR TO 9/11)

    • ThirdWayForward

      Before 2001, the threat of suicide bombers hijacking planes to use as flying bombs was not widely appreciated by airline crews and the flying public.

      Yes, the Bush administration really completely blew the threat of 911, and we need to keep reminding ourselves of their incompetence and complacency, but it took the events of 911 to demonstrate to the world this terrible type of terrorist threat.

    • JobExperience

       Yep, a Big Lie of Third Reichian proportions.
      Drones could never be used HERE.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

    The primary job of the TSA since it was created is not airport security, we already had that.

    The purpose of the TSA is to train millions of people to submit to authority on command, regardless of any logic behind the request. If someone said 20 years ago that people would willingly take off their shoes, submit to body scans, willingly get their private body part groped, put their shampoo, etc, into special bottles, they would have been dismissed as some paranoid kook. Look at us now.

    Making the criteria even less logical just contributes to this overall policy. You submit because you’re told to, not because it makes any sense.

    • JobExperience

      Simon sez…

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      i thought i was joking when i asked a few years ago “whats next are they going to make us all fly naked” then lo and behold it happens

  • terry7

    In response to the comment that shampoo bottles are innocuous, remember that the content of such a bottle could be an explosive, such as nitroglycerin.

    • Saul B

      So one large bottle’s bad but five smaller bottles are okay?

      And such bottles in the cargo hold are suddenly rendered inert?

      • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

        c’mon saul its for your protection and the govt must know better. i don’t know how anyone ever survived when we could bring liquids aboard

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      unless they write “contact lens solution” on the bottle then you can have 2 one liter bottles

  • http://www.facebook.com/whitebreadier MrSweaters Nelson

    What’s the point to back ground checks , would not have changed anything at Sandy hook…

    • JobExperience

       TSA  at every school?

      • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

        yeah because they are doing such a bang up job catching the terrorists

  • Saul B

    Kip, you were TSA administrator for four years, and the agency only became more bloated during your tenure.

    Your voice has no merit.

  • Government_Banking_Serf

    The point about clean record terrorists demonstrates how ridiculous all this giving up of privacy is. But thats so…. 1700′s.

    “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

    Ben Franklin

    I know, most of you are too hip for that kind of stuff today.

    • J__o__h__n

      Even worse, people are now giving it up for convenience.  I’d rather stand in a long line than be fingerprinted.

      • Government_Banking_Serf

        yep

      • DrewInGeorgia

        Me too, sucks when it’s not optional. Sucks even worse when it’s to find out if you’ve falsely labeled a criminal. And the biggest insult? You get to pay for it with your own money.

    • DrewInGeorgia

      Thanks for quoting it straight, I get sick of seeing paraphrases.

  • Government_Banking_Serf

    al Qaeda laughs as we bankrupt ourselves, fiscally and constitutionally chasing yesterday’s threats.

  • Wahoo_wa

    It’s odd when big government fans protest big government.

  • ToyYoda

    Why doesn’t TSA just trawl facebook and twitter to get safety profiles?  

    We are adamant about not revealing ourselves to TSA guards, but we will gleefully reveal all our personal information, sexual preferences, religious and political affiliations, even risque pictures on social websites and to advertisers for free.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      Heeheehee.

      (I took that as a crack on the ever-changing Facebook “privacy” policy.)

      • ToyYoda

        It is, but it’s also a crack on us; It’s like we are nudist objecting to some people checking us out, but not others.

        • nycXpat

          SOME of “us” do that. Many of the people opposing the TSAs changes probably are also opting out of using much of the social sites out there.

          • ToyYoda

            Well, do you get junk email?  Do you buy stuff on Amazon?  Do you participate in website discussions like onpoint?  Do you use your credit card?  Have you ever used a coupon either electronic or physical?  do you have a discount card from the grocery or your favorite clothing or hardware store? I know the answer to one of these already.

            It doesn’t have to be a social website. I really should have said ‘internet’, but I need to  be topical for a site like this.

            We’ll pay advertisers (in the form or purchases) to know about us.  If the government wants to assess our risk profile, it merely has to examine our purchase history and browsing habits.If we are really paranoid about privacy, we shouldn’t use the internet, we should hire an agent to purchase our stuff, and/or we should pay everything in cash.  And it’s not certain that these precautions will keep you private anymore.  :(

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            I like your long-form answer more than the “punchline” about nudists, once you fleshed it out. Thanks.

          • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

            not with all the fusion centers. getting off the grid would definatly get you flagged

          • DrewInGeorgia

            Getting flagged is what made me get “off the grid”. That’s me, always putting the cart before the horse.

          • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

            lol does not seem like you are that far off the grid right now

          • DrewInGeorgia

            When you said off the grid, I took it to mean dropping out of “The System”.

          • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

            its doesne matter anyways they can just read over your shoulder with the satallites
             lol

          • DrewInGeorgia

            I participate in website discussions…now I’m scared.

            Oh, wait a minute, my identity and everything else has already been stripped from me. Phew, I feel better now. Can’t take what I don’t have.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

          Eh, the analogy doesn’t hold in my opinion.

        • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

          is a facebook page required by the feds yet? maybe you should have to have one to fly. a lot of people think you need apicture ID to fly but that is another myth

      • DrewInGeorgia

         facebook: Never had it, Never will.

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      check my profile

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

    Okay now we’ve escalated with caller Dave to “I feel safer with my weapon if something happens” in a flying tube, talking about Flight 93.

    That was predictable, but it happened faster than I thought.

    • JobExperience

       A quick bullet to the temple would end his terror.
      Wouldn’t a cyanide capsule work as well?

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      yep with dave there we would not have had an attack that has since been used to justify stripping the american people of their rights and spending billions of our dollars on wars and contracts. explosive decompression is a myth

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        First, I said nothing about explosive decompression.

        Second, every “guy with a weapon stops everything” to you, don’t they? Keep on cherishing your myth.

        • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

          it does seem like all these things happen only in places where people may not legally carry. is that just a conicidence?

  • sickofthechit

    Posted by Nj_v2
    “Guest, Ms Nelson, i think (paraphrasing): Before 9/11, the threat of using commercial planes as weapons wasn’t known.

    No, no, no, no!!

    This was the lie that Conjobdoleeza (who was shopping for shoes during the attacks) and the other BushCo hacks made after the attacks, trying to cover their butts.

    http://www.justiceblind.com/ai
    (9/11: THREATS ABOUT AIRPLANES AS WEAPONS PRIOR TO 9/11)”

    • JobExperience

      Security exercises with an airliner as weapon scenario had previously been conducted by government agencies.
      “Unthinkable” can have ironic and coercive meanings.

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      i was reading about JE hoover the other day and i guess he was afraid of planes being used as weapons back in the 60s and 70s not to mention “BIN LADEN DETERMINED TO ATTACK USING AIRLINERS” memo

  • sickofthechit

     May we never forget the utter failure of the cheney/bush administration in this regard.

  • sickofthechit

     May we never forget the utter failure of the cheney/bush administration in this regard.

  • BHA_in_Vermont

    Who is to say that someone in a military uniform is actually the OWNER of that uniform?  Or that the uniform is authentic and the person is actually active duty military?

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      what common sense? that has no place in this debate

  • sophialyonfahs

    Training people is a big job. It’s big enough to train them to accurately and consistently spot knives, as is obvious. Can they be adequately trained to truly spot (not profile) questionable people?

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      nope

  • sickofthechit

    DISQUS SUCKS TODAY.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      Today is like any day, isn’t it?

    • DeJay79

       Check for User software update.

  • M A

    When Homeland Security assigns risk factor for cargo containers, has a study been done about how effective their rankings are?  Do the high risk containers actually contain more risks than the ones that have been rated safer?  In other words how do they assess how accurate their rankings are?  Since out of the millions or more of people what is the likelihood of finding the tiny fraction of terrorists.

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      after a decade of trying the TSA has found exactly 0 terrorists so i would say the likely hood is somewhere around zero. NYC pushcart vendors have a much better record for catching terrorists with one on the books

  • Government_Banking_Serf

    “Be sure they are actually effective”?

    Why? The illusions of safety and the new government programs allow so much for the politicians to play with, and we love it!

  • Wool

    I have a loved one that is a flight attendant (international). I want her to be as safe as possible, as she would want her passengers to be. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      maybe she can carry a tiny knife since its such a devistating weapon

  • BHA_in_Vermont

    Do people in the GOES program get to bring knives, shampoo and toothpaste in their carry-on bags? Or do are they just trusted to not bring ‘banned’ items on the plane?

  • Wool

    Is that TSA person at the gate really effective when paid minimum wage?

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      they supplement it by stealing things. and then there are those who just do it for the love of feeling children up and viewing naked scanners

  • nycXpat

    1) Why not fly naked and completely sedated. That would be much safer.

    2) Like the SSN. Once the profiling is in place how long do you think it will take for the usage scope to grow. Could Security Score  become as widely used as our Credit Score?

    3) Will this at all move us to more tiered society? Vetted, secure vs not. Alive vs bland? By what ruler? Who get to decide? Will the vetted no longer care what happens to the unvetted?

    • Government_Banking_Serf

      People will accept that as readily as they do the notion of paying to see their own credit scores so they can participate in the Financial house of mirrors.

      Just be sure to be on the right side of the discretionary ruling class.

    • JobExperience

       Renditionees fly perfectly safeguarded in hoods, jumpsuits, manacles and diapers, often sedated. That is the future of commercial air travel. Tiered society is here. Most of my affluent friends fly only in private and corporate planes (at least domestically) and never degrade themselves in security lines. My final airline trip was to Albuquerque in 2002. I plan to never ever fly commercially again.

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      1. we have naked scanners now
      as far as being sedated i do my best to do that already not for the flight but to get through my federally mandated homosexual molestation.
      2. yup i already get hasseled at the airport every time i go i can only guess they have targeted me for some reason. i was once selected for extra screening 3 times on one trip in addition to the 2 normal screenings for international passengers.

      3. if you are not a member of the party…..
      the elites who fly charter flights already do not care and thats why this nonsense goes on at the airport.

  • BHA_in_Vermont

    With regard to liquids
    I doubt someone would drink something toxic. Why can’t we take a swig out of our water bottle for the TSA officers to prove we don’t have bomb making liquids in it?

    The current option is expensive and environmentally unfriendly bottled water bought inside the secure area or potentially nasty tasting water from the drinking fountains with who knows what bacteria and viruses on it.

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      i fly a lot and think the restrictions are absurd. however to cope with them i carry a nalgene bottle then dump it at the checkpoint then after the checkpoint i refill it. in some cities the water does taste bad so a good tactic is to take it to a restaurant inside the termanal and get filtered water from there or a lemon slice.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

    Tom, it was a “Brave New World” that a pre-interview flight clearance company which went under counted among its assets the data it collected, and a massive lawsuit was the only thing that kept it from being sold like so much office furniture?

    Nah, it was also utterly predictable. But let’s not have that stop the further “profitiziation” (h/t Bowsher) of air travel security.

  • ThirdWayForward

     Before September, 2001 planes had never been used as flying bombs, and the entire strategy re: possible hijacking was to not resist forcibly so as to avoid bloodshed of passengers and crew. On that terrible day, the entire psychology and strategy for dealing with hijackers changed dramatically because now we faced ruthless, suicide bombers for the first time. Now hijackers face being torn limb from limb by the people in the plane: crew, passengers, marshalls, whether they have knives or not, because we now assume that they are suicide bombers and it is our lives or theirs. It’s a completely different world.

    The obsession with knives is a bit misplaced given this context.
    Small pocket knives are much, much less effective in the new climate, and we are persuaded that this emphasis on small stuff distracts from the detection of real threats. It sounds like the TSA is correctly focused on real threats, and not on show procedures that make passengers feel safer, but have no real effect on safety.

    Americans are such a fearful people, which is odd given our unrivalled military might, and extremely susceptible to fear-mongering.

    We don’t think that the TSA should allow large knives or machetes — implements that can easily be used as weapons to intimidate or injure or kill, but if small swiss-army-knife type pocket knives pose minimal risk, then we need to suppress our petty fears and paranoias and get ourselves back to normalcy wherever that is possible.

    Whatever the process, everyone should be screened, and there should
    be no express lines for first class passengers (we hate this catering to
    moneyed passengers — the airlines can do it, but the government should
    not). Maybe there could be express lines for those who do not bring
    bags larger than a purse or satchel.

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      passengers with real money fly charter and have no screenings at all. you know, people like bloomberg and the rest of the elites who make the rules for the commoners

    • http://profiles.google.com/sustain.spaces Christina Snyder

       I have a suspicion that our national paranoia has to do with our national TV addiction. The TV shows dramatically more violence than ever happens in real life, thus people who habitually watch unconsciously start to feel that danger is frequent and all around them. I think this is partly what happened to George Zimmerman when he encountered Trayvon Martin. I am a much less anxious person than most people I know because I choose to not have a TV, and thus my psyche remains at peace even while I keep my mind informed with radio & internet news.

      • DrewInGeorgia

        Fear is biggest consumption motivator. Think Red Scare. I applaud your decision not to participate in the feeding frenzy.

      • ThirdWayForward

        I think that’s very perceptive. 

        We want an America that doesn’t live fearfully, either from reality or from our imaginations. Acting on fear is irrational — it rarely leads to a good solution for what is causing the fear.

  • JobExperience

     Waterboarding was pre-empted!

  • JobExperience

     Mike Blumberg is watching you.

  • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

    we should switch our focus from risky objects to risky people for all our laws

  • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

    i usually refill my nalgene after the security. in san fran they even have a little water bottile filling kiosk

  • Gabor Nagy

    it would be bizarre if a bottle of water or my toothpaste is prohibited but a knife isn’t.

  • DrewInGeorgia

    A small knife would be the least of my problems f I tried to board a plane with one. My false criminal background insures I’ll receive “The White Glove Treatment” whether I’m toting or not.

  • http://profiles.google.com/sustain.spaces Christina Snyder

    Both TSA & Customs are treating people as guilty until proven innocent, and that is not going to change. I was held by customs officers for several hours, subjected to every kind of search, they weren’t able to find anything because there wasn’t anything to find, I was questioned without being told what they suspected me of (what the charges were), and nearly missed my flight even though they didn’t have any reason to hold me. Every right I was told I had as a suspect in my high school civics class was not respected. They were searching me based on hearsay from another passenger, and never told me until they finally released me and we had to run for our plane that was ready to close the door and roll away.
    I will still avoid riding a plane and take a train or bus that has no TSA presence, where I can be treated with dignity.

    • DrewInGeorgia

      “Both TSA & Customs are treating people as guilty until proven innocent, and that is not going to change.”

      Guilty until proven innocent is a truth I know too well. You can go ahead and add the Department of Justice, National Criminal Information Center, State Criminal Data Agencies, Municipal Law Enforcement, County, State, and Federal Courts, Employers, Creditors, Background Providers, and District Attorneys to the list when it comes to unjustifiable discrimination.

      You may want to have a Criminal Background Check run on yourself through your local law enforcement agency. At the state level an even easier way to find out if you are toting someone else’s criminal background is to do an alias search using your full name through your State’s Department of Corrections (most if not all have websites). You may be sitting in jail according to your criminal record and not even realize it.

      The “other passenger” thing was possibly a smokescreen to get you to move along without causing a scene. I’m just telling you all of this because I have been there and done that. I will never enter an airport again if I can help it.

      Sorry to hear of your experience, believe me when I say it could have been a whole lot worse.

      https://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs17g-CrimIdTheft.htm

    • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

      you do not really have the same rights on the border.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=780598291 Donovan Pyle

    Conversations about security are proving to be pointless. It’s been 33 years since the first terrorist attack was waged against the US and we rarely ask the most important question: “What is their motive?”. Acknowledging that they have a motive (like 95% of murderers do) does not mean it is just. It does not mean that you are “soft” on terrorism. It means that you are addressing the actual disease, not the symptoms. 

    • DrewInGeorgia

      Anyone who asks “But why do they hate us???” is never going to acknowledge the reasons. If someone has made it through a majority of their life without ever examining actual United States History it’s because they prefer not to know the truth, don’t care, or both.

  • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

    perhaps they can start issuing “totin chit” like the cub scouts have so they can carry thier little knives

  • http://www.facebook.com/futo.buddy Futo Buddy

    he must like being able to open things like packages, what a wierdo

ONPOINT
TODAY
Sep 1, 2014
This Friday, Aug. 22, 2014 photo shows a mural in in the Pullman neighborhood of Chicago dedicated to the history of the Pullman railcar company and the significance for its place in revolutionizing the railroad industry and its contributions to the African-American labor movement. (AP)

On Labor Day, we’ll check in on the American labor force, with labor activist Van Jones, and more.

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Aug 29, 2014
Beyoncé performs at the 2014 MTV Music Video Awards on Sunday, August 24, 2014 in Inglewood, California. (Getty)

Sex, power and Beyoncé’s feminism. The message to young women.

 
Aug 29, 2014
Ukrainian forces guard a checkpoint in the town of Mariupol, eastern Ukraine, Thursday, Aug. 28, 2014. Ukraine's president Petro Poroshenko called an emergency meeting of the nation's security council and canceled a foreign trip Thursday, declaring that "Russian forces have entered Ukraine," as concerns grew about the opening of a new front in the conflict.  (AP)

War moves over Syria, Ukraine. Burger King moves to Canada. Nine-year-olds and Uzis. Our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

On Point Blog
On Point Blog
Our Week In The Web: August 29, 2014
Friday, Aug 29, 2014

On hypothetical questions, Beyoncé and the unending flow of social media.

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Drew Bledsoe Is Scoring Touchdowns (In The Vineyards)
Thursday, Aug 28, 2014

Football great — and vineyard owner — Drew Bledsoe talks wine, onions and the weird way they intersect sometimes in Walla Walla, Washington.

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Poutine Whoppers? Why Burger King Is Bailing Out For Canada
Tuesday, Aug 26, 2014

Why is Burger King buying a Canadian coffee and doughnut chain? (We’ll give you a hint: tax rates).

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