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Texans Talk Secession

Texas talks secession. A big petition is before the White House. We’ll hear the case.

Members of the San Antonio Living History Association take part in a pre-dawn memorial service at Alamo Plaza in San Antonio, Tuesday, March 6, 2007. The 13-day Battle of the Alamo ended March 6, 1836, with a victory by Mexican forces under Gen. Antonio López de Santa Anna. (AP)

Members of the San Antonio Living History Association take part in a pre-dawn memorial service at Alamo Plaza in San Antonio, Tuesday, March 6, 2007. The 13-day Battle of the Alamo ended March 6, 1836, with a victory by Mexican forces under Gen. Antonio López de Santa Anna. (AP)

On November 9th, three days after the re-election of President Barack Obama, Texans made a call to secede from the United States.  A petition went up on the White House web site calling for Texas to be granted secession.  Independence.  As of today, 117,000-plus have signed it.

It didn’t come out of nowhere.  Texas Governor Rick Perry has made sympathetic remarks on secession.  Supporters say it’s a reaction to federal overreach.  Critics say it’s deep fringe, racially-tinged nonsense.  Or treason.

This hour, On Point:  secession talk in Texas.

-Tom Ashbrook

Guests

Wade Goodwyn, NPR National Desk Correspondent covering Texas and the surrounding states.

William McKenzie, Pulitzer Prize-winning editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News.

Daniel Miller, president of Texas Nationalist Movement.

Steve Munisteri, chairman of the Republican Party of Texas.

From Tom’s Reading List

Houston Chronicle “As of 3:40 p.m. ET, more than 25,000 Texans have already signed the petition on The White House website to let Texas peacefully secede from United States of America and “create its own NEW government.””

Ft Worth Star Telegram “One party official from Southeast Texas calls for — not secession — separation. “Why should Vermont and Texas live under the same government?” writes Hardin County Republican treasurer Peter Morrison, a Ron Paul supporter and author of a race-heavy Tea Party newsletter. “Let each go her own way,” he writes, demanding an “amicable divorce” from the U.S. and from the “maggots” who re-elected President Obama.”

New York Times “In the weeks since President Obama’s re-election, Republicans around the country have been wondering how to proceed. Some conservatives in Texas have been asking a far more pointed question: how to secede.”

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  • Mike_Card

    Molly Ivins is gone; there’s no reason to keep Tex-ass now.  Good riddance.

    • nj_v2

      Well, there is Austin, too.

      • Mike_Card

        Nothing to prevent Austin from seceding from Texas.

        • Don_B1

          I believe San Antonio (?) has a group trying to secede from Texas already!

          • sickofthechit

             hooray for San Antonio!

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        Like DC, Austin’s city government has a bunch of input from the Texas Lege (the laboratory of bad government). I don’t know the particulars, but it’s not like my town and your town where the city council are from the town and voted on by the residents.

        Just what Austin needs.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      Lou Dubose?

      • Mike_Card

        Well, OK.  All of Austin, Lou Dubose, and Willie Nelson.  But NO football!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bo-Li/100000299836172 Bo Li

    This talk will devolve into democrats accusing the secessionist as racist and avoid talking about the real problem of expansion of federal powers.

  • BarrytheBully

    Liberals threaten to move to Canada or New Zealand. Conservatives threaten to secede. 

    • nj_v2
      • terjeanderson

        Given their hatred of government, Somalia would be a better choice than Canada for the disgruntled teavangelicals.

        In Canada they would find socialized medicine, gay marriage, no restrictions on abortion, a commitment to multiculturalism, higher taxes, strict gun laws, and robust government involvement in the economy.

        In Somalia the right wing would feel right at home with an unregulated economy, unrestricted guns, virtually no government or taxes, and a strict religious approach to social issues.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bo-Li/100000299836172 Bo Li

    I don’t think is fair to label secessionist as “unpatriotic”. America is great because of the law/constitution that governs the land, allowing individuals to have freedom while protecting the rights of minorities. To be patriotic is also the wish to protect those founding principles stated in the constitution and not just the geographical borders of this country. The secessionist is in a way patriotic enough to point out that the constitution is no longer being practice or protected in their eyes.

    • Mike_Card

      Patriotic?  Really?  Ever hear of the Civil War?

    • coalczar

      I disagree with your definition of patriotism.  Why would we hold allegiance to a document crafted over 200 years ago?  Most federal constitutions last ~ 17 years on average.

      Patriotism must be thought of as allegiance to protecting all the people of our country, not as protecting a document or even some set of Founding Father ideals.

      That being said, I believe it is high time we replace the idea of patriotism with one that extends beyond our borders to protecting not only all of current mankind from itself, but the planet and the rest of its current and future inhabitants from what we might bring upon them.

      • Davesix6

        coalczar, what exactly would you replace our Constitution with?

        Perhaps something crafted by the United Nations designed to set right the evil acts of the US, both real and imagined?

        The citizens of this nation have more freedom than any other nation on the planet and it is due solely to our Constitution and Bill of Rights!

        The more we move away from our Constitution whether by Act of Congress, Executive Order or Judicial activism, the less freedom we will have.

        • ttajtt

          yes whom wants to change it and why, what for, how come, what don’t they have that they can’t take now, but want to via us – globe – mars ???  what are the root gains, what are roots of the losers.   we are not same equal of people…

        • Don_B1

          The story of the United States Constitution has been one of moving toward MORE justice and MORE equality, until the rise of radical conservatism, with the change in taxation from strongly progressive through high marginal rates to lower rates with high growth in wealth by those already rich, and infused into the courts through the Federalist Society which has given predominance in law to the “rights” of corporations over individuals.

          This has been done under the slogan of “Small Government, Low Taxes.” But the founders did not pick “small government,” though their talking points can be twisted to seem like they did: they had to sell the Constitution then, too. The founders were replacing truly small government, the Articles of Confederation, with the Constitution, a document proclaiming a MUCH STRONGER form of government because that was what the country NEEDED if it was to survive in the world of those days.

          Similarly, the conditions of today REQUIRE the Federal Government to take on many tasks that people cannot do by themselves.

          Take just two issues:

          1) Healthcare is an expensive proposition when one is struck by a chronic disease, an injury on the job, or a disease from the environment. Individuals have little power to avoid many of these medical problems and fortunately only a small percentage (about 20%) incur them. But when they do the cost to treat them is devastating for all but the richest in the country. This cost is high because technology and medical science have developed treatments for them that did not exist when the Constitution was written, but it did call for the government to work for the “general welfare.”

          2) Anthropomorphic Climate Change will affect every person that lives on this planet but the decisions that are made by private individuals are made in a setting where the decision makers do not have to suffer, at least immediately, the all the consequences of their decisions. At the same time as the Colonies were seceding from England, Adam Smith was writing his book, “Wealth of Nations,” where he dealt with what economists call “externalities,” those costs not borne by the maker of goods or provider of services, but which are borne by the others living in the vicinity. This calls for government regulation, to prevent that businessman from doing damage to others while making his profits.

          Both of these issues call for government to provide the regulation that keeps some citizens from having THEIR “freedom.” Freedom was not envisioned by the founders to be ONLY for the wealthy, although their initial compromises leaned that way.

          The additional constraints that some citizens are protesting are a direct result of the increasing complexity of life in a technically growing world. The way to fight is to work to ensure that the regulation is implemented in the least egregious way, not to just “throw the baby out with the bath water.” While it is true that some regulations are not deeply thought out, the purpose of the regulation is well-founded.

          But just as some regulations need to be reworked, this “secession talk” is knee-jerk reaction to being “told what to do.” It is the human “over-emotional” response to something that humans do not understand or don’t want to understand.

    • jefe68

      You can’t be serious. We already fought a Civil War over the idea of secessionist states. I suggest you read up on the years leading up Fort Sumter.

      The Constitution is not a document that is set in stone.
      It’s open to amendments and has changed over the course of our history. The secessionist are a lot of things, patriotic is not one of them.

  • Yar

    Below is a list of Petitions that have more then 25,000 Signatures. I have no idea what Disqus will do to the formatting. 
    In order from greatest number of signatures to least.  34 different Petitions have met the Whitehouse requirement of 25,000 signatures.

    Peacefully grant
    the State of Texas to withdraw from the United States of America and create
    its own NEW government.

    Recount the election!

    Remove marijuana from the federal
    Controlled Substance Act and allow the states to decide how they want to
    regulate it.

    Support mandatory labeling of genetically
    engineered foods (GMOs).

    Repeal Obamacare. It is killing jobs in
    this country. Thousands have already lost their jobs because of it.

    Require free access over the Internet to
    scientific journal articles arising from taxpayer-funded research.

    We request that Obama be impeached for
    the following reasons.

    outlaw offending prophets of major
    religions

    Peacefully grant the State of Louisiana
    to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own NEW
    government.

    Support a law protecting states’ rights
    to legalize, regulate and tax marijuana like alcohol.

    Peacefully grant the State of Florida to
    withdraw from the United States of America and create its own NEW government.

    Remove the monument and not to support
    any international harassment related to this issue against the people of
    Japan.

    Not Allow The FDA To Regulate Premium
    Cigars

    Peacefully grant the State of Georgia to
    withdraw from the United States of America and create its own NEW government.

    Finalize Standards for GLUTEN-FREE
    Labeling

    Persuade South Korea (the ROK) to accept
    Japan’s proposal on territorial dispute over islets.

    support the Polish Nation appeal for an
    international investigation of the Smolensk 2010 air crash

    Peacefully grant the State of Tennessee
    to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own NEW
    government.

    Peacefully grant the State of North
    Carolina to withdraw from the United States and create its own NEW government

    Peacefully grant the State of Alabama to
    withdraw from the United States of America and create its own NEW government.

    Federally Legalize Marijuana

    The U.S. Government Must Redress Wrongs
    Against the Chagossians

    Repeal the House of Representatives
    Resolution 121 to stop aggravating int’l harassment by Korean propaganda
    & lies!

    Help Free D. Randall Blythe From Prage,
    Czech Republic. Where he is falsely accused of commiting Manslaughter.

    Repeal the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA)

    vigorously enforce US laws to seek the
    return of US citizens’ properties expropriated by the Vietnamese government.

    Allow Any American To Voluntarily Opt Out
    Of “ObamaCare” [The So Called Affordable Care Act].

    Require all Genetically Modified Foods to
    be labeled as such.

    Light the White House Purple to Celebrate
    75th Anniversary of March of Dimes and as Symbol of Hope to Preemie Families

    End to the War On Coal, end the job
    killing policies of the EPA and require an economic impact analysis of new
    policies

    Enforce the tax code, and strip violating
    Religious institutions of their tax exempt 501(c) status.

    Deport Everyone That Signed A Petition To
    Withdraw Their State From The United States Of America.

    • DrewInGeorgia

      That last one is my favorite!

  • 2Gary2

    Let Texas go.  Texas is mainly full of crazy right wing nuts.  Jim Hightower is the best thing I have seen come out of Texas.  The red states in general mooch of us blue states so again I say–good riddance to all the crazy nutty loons in Texas.

    • jefe68

      Actually Texas is one of the few red states to give more in taxes then it gets back. About 6% or so.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        How steady is that? The oil won’t last forever. The “affordable labor” situation (wink, wink) is up in the air. And the water won’t last forever either.

        • http://www.facebook.com/david.j.brooks David J Brooks

          I’m guessing it’s a damn sight steadier than the American economy. How’s that socialism thing working out for you?

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            Socialism?

            Hi-larious!

          • DrewInGeorgia

            What the hell is up with people that have the last name Brooks? Am I the only one that’s noticed this bizarro phenomenon?

          • Don_B1

            It was the deregulation of the financial sector that led to the development of unregulated derivatives which fueled the subprime mortgage industry through “shadow banks” like Countrywide and thus enlarged the housing bubble before it finally burst.

            How was the transfer of money from the poor and middle class to the wealthy bankers socialism?

    • margbi

       Yeah to Jim Hightower. But don’t forget Ann Richards.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        (We haven’t, bless her heart. But she’s no longer with us.)

      • Don_B1

        Or Cecile Richards, her daughter and president of Planned Parenthood! (I don’t know where Cecile lives now, but she had to have grown up in Texas.)

        • margbi

           I didn’t remember about her daughter. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree, it would appear. Thanks for the info.

    • dhtx

      what blue state provides more to the US gov’t than it receives?? Texas pays for the idiotic laws and regulations that liberal giveaways promise to the 47%. unfortunately, i do believe that the takers have exceeded 50% now and our country will accelerate off the cliff with dems increasing spending and killing business. if you think texas is sooo full of morons, please let us go and don’t come running to us for the excess we currently provide to your handout masses…

      • Don_B1

        Just about ALL the Blue States do: they have better economies because they have better schools (some of NYC schools and other big city inner-city schools being the exceptions) and better workers.

      • Don_B1

        Just about ALL the Blue States do: they have better economies because they have better schools (some of NYC schools and other big city inner-city schools being the exceptions) and better workers.

        • dhtx

          you must be in a state that just legalized pot to believe that blue states have better economies than red states. blue – california, michigan, new york. red – texas oklahoma, the dakotas. matter of fact an article just came out today (non-politically aligned) showing the same. blue states deplete resources not increase. businesses flock to texas because texas provides a climate that allows workers to work and businesses to thrive.

          • DrewInGeorgia

            Texas provides a climate that allows serfs to toil and Massas to thrive? Sounds like paradise if you’re on the right end of the whip.

          • dhtx

            you have proven that you have no clue how to succeed in the world. good luck surviving when the freebies stop coming.

  • Michiganjf

    Good God!

       I live in Austin, Texas… please don’t take the tiny fraction of one percent of Texas secessionist morons seriously!

    Believe me, much of Texas is well worth keeping!

    … just laugh and ignore the idiots… I know we have plenty, but Texas isn’t the only state which has them.

    Let these infantile pea-brains throw their little temper tantrum, and treat them as you would a two year old who really doesn’t even know what they’re fussing about, but just wants attention… pretend you can’t even hear them.

    Take it from a lifelong Texan of 48 years… it’s easy to overlook the worst of Texas when you also well know the best of Texas!

    Look to the future, the past few elections, and the changing demographics… Texas will largely be back in the Democratic column within the decade, and you’ll be glad you kept us!

    • Gregg Smith

      Of course you are right but why miss a chance to bash Republicans and paint them all as crazies? The show must go on.

      Austin is a great town.

  • Blue387

    If Texas left, it would suffer the same fate as the Confederacy.

    Texas received over $40 billion in federal funding in 2010. If Texas became an independent country, it would no longer have access to federal funds or the protection of the federal government. Secessionist might think that’s a good thing but the new republic of Texas would have to spend billions of dollars to raise an army, a navy, an air force, create a new post office, border patrol, health care system, education and tackle wildfires alone. And this doesn’t even factor foreign policies, sending diplomats, free trade agreements or taking on drug trafficking.

    Does an independent Texas use its’ own new currency? And what will prevent inflation to pay off debts?

    To compensate for the loss of US tax dollars, Texas would probably have to raise taxes, which could hurt job growth and make the low-tax crowd unhappy. Texas doesn’t have gold resources so you can’t peg Texas dollars to gold. How can you get people who already don’t like paying taxes to Washington to start paying higher taxes to Austin? How do you get people who don’t like the organs of the federal government in Washington to start supporting a federal government based in Texas?

    Lacking a strong federal government, Texas exports could be easily be embargoed and ports blockaded by the US Navy. Finally, I highly doubt the United States would let Texas secede without a fight as Texas secession would set a dangerous precedent for others states contemplating secession.

    In a complicated and complex world, anyone who supports Texas secession is extremely short-sighted and foolish.

    • jefe68

      How would they defend themselves against the drug cartels let alone other governments, such as Mexico.

      The population of Texas is over 26 million. So far 25,000 have signed this petition of secession. One would think they are a long way off from being granted this on any level whatsoever.

      When they they can get a majority of the population to agree to this, say about 14 million citizens, then lets have a show. This is nonsense and giving voice to right wing extremist.

      • Blue387

        Can I get a cookie?

  • jefe68

    “Why should Vermont and Texas live under the same government?” writes Hardin County Republican treasurer Peter Morrison, a Ron Paul supporter and author of a race-heavy Tea Party newsletter. This man Peter Morrison sounds like a real piece of work. He’s not worth 2 minutes of air time let alone being mentioned.

    You know, for some reason I get the feeling these are the same kind of folks that would tell me to love it or leave it if the election had gone in their favor.

    25,000 people do not make a nation. They barely make up the population of Burlington Vermont. What a bunch of misanthropes.

    The very idea of secession is absurd as is the premise of this show. On Point, there are some serious problems facing this nation that you folks deem this subject worthy of an hour is disappointing.

    So lets say they do secede, then what. How are they going to run their new nation. They will need a standing army to defend themselves. They will have to collect taxes to run their new government, if not it will be chaos.

    Lets call this what it is, sour grapes.

    • northeaster17

      Actually VT and Texas do not live under the same type of Govt. The two are vastly different on the state and local level, as compared to a smaller Federal presence. The guy is plain ignorant.

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

      Texas’ economy is STRONGER than the Federal Government. Texas sends more tax money to the Federal government than it receives back in Federal programs. Texas already has it’s own standing army and navy, answerable to the Governor FIRST (and another portion answerable to the Governor ONLY). Texas has it’s own electric grid, oil refineries, agricultural industries, chemical industries; automobile, semiconductor, and other durable goods factories.

      Who do you think collects Federal taxes? The infrastructure in each individual state – the IRS does not come to each individual and business monthly to collect their ill-gotten gains.

      Who do you think runs state governments now? What are the state, county, and local governments for? Eye candy?

      It’s not sour grapes, its an attempt to preserve and protect the FREEDOMS and RIGHTS guaranteed to individuals by the US and Texas Constitutions.

      Nullification and refusal of Federal grants can only go so far.

      “Jefe”, please educate yourself before running your mouth, as you are only making yourself out to be the misanthrope… 

      PS: You obviously don’t even know what the word means

  • Ed75

    Given what we have just voted for, I can understand why Texas would consider leaving.

    • Shag_Wevera

      Not your best work, Ed version 7.5…

    • Don_B1

      Texas as a whole is NOT considering secession. But it does make a “great” talking point for those who want to distract others from discussing what happened to cause the Republicans to lose widely in this past election.

  • ttajtt

    Money makes kings and queens.  what about the question Who whats to keep it, them?  

  • JustEdith

    This is a minority.  I’m sure there are not many even in Texas who support the secessionists or separatists, whatever they want to call themselves.  It’s an absurd premise and an extreme viewpoint.  I’m not sure that radio time should be dedicated to the airing of such ideas.  Leave it to us liberals to show such  tolerance with the intolerant and give them a voice on public radio when people who were against the wars and military build-up for so many years have basically had no coverage at all. 

    For 8 years I put up with a presidency that I didn’t like or choose.  That president didn’t even win the popular vote, the state whose electoral college votes were in question was governed by his brother and ultimately he was given the office by the Supreme Court with the intervention of Clarence Thomas, someone given that position by that candidate’s father.  Two wars, one of which was supposed to pay for itself with oil revenues but of course, did not.  Much crony capitalism, the disaster of how Katrina was handled.  (New Orleans, an emblematic American city, looked like Haiti, for goodness sake!) Definitely not happy about any of that.  But we are a union and I never thought, ‘oh the elections didn’t go my way, let’s write a secession petition’. 

    There are people who do not play well with others. I think it would be great for them to all go their own way but I doubt that the whole state of Texas or any other state will want to go with them.  Maybe they could find an island somewhere, or an oil platform, and set up there.  I’m sure it wouldn’t be long before their new republic was on human rights watchlists everywhere. 

    What other extreme groups will On Point give a platform to?

    • ttajtt

      be play republication on them selves? anew chain of command and little people?  new class of rich and poor? does it work like that.

    • jefe68

      I agree. Why is BUR is wasting an hour on this nonsense is beyond me. Giving this much air time to right wing extremist who want to secede is a weird idea in my view.
      I thought the same way you did about GW Bush and Cheney. I never thought about making any petitions in my view if one feels this strongly they can always move to another country. The problem is for the right wingers of this ilk where to move? Canada, New Zealand, and Australia all have more social democratic governments and in the case of the New Zealand and Australia pretty left wing ones at that. I guess they could move to Belarus.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        “NPR: Where any crazy right-wing idea can be given the sheen of polite respectability and constitutes half the story.”

    • Prairie_W

      They’re more like sideshow artists than extremists, Edith, aren’t they?  That’s what so, well, pathetic about all this. I’m disappointed in Tom, too, for giving them a circus ring for their little performance today. 

  • Yar

    I have been advocating on the forum for the past year for two years of required public service by youth ages 18 to 24.
    Lets see if the power of petition is real.  I created a petition to do that this morning.  Spread the word.
    Here is the link.
    http://wh.gov/IVp4
    Thanks,
    Ray T

    • Jasoturner

      Good for you, Ray.  As income inequality divides us into different economic classes that need seldom interact, a national public service program would at least promote a modicum of common interest.  It would also eliminate a lot of 18 year old kids wasting tens of thousands of dollars “discovering” themselves in college when they should be getting a little real life under their belts first (first hand experience, that.)

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

      Totally agree! I’ve also said for years a similar thing: When youths graduate High School, and/or turn 18, 2 years of mandatory service is required. This may be satisfied by military service, or service with programs like AmeriCorps, BLM, Forest Service, or other programs recognized by the Federal government: http://www.usa.gov/Citizen/Topics/PublicService.shtml

      In turn, after successful completion of a tour of duty, the participant will received full a full ride for up to 4 years at a public institution of higher learning or trade program recognized by the Department of Labor. 

      This helps the students in multiple ways, helps the schools by providing a ready and eager pool of students and controlling costs, and helps the economy by creating better citizens who are more engaged and have the skills to succeed.

      • http://wh.gov/IVp4 Yar

        Please sign the petition.
        http://wh.gov/IVp4

        It takes 150 signatures before it shows on the Whitehouse website.  

        I have not thought through the publicity side of the petition.  It has until December 27, to get 25,000 people to get a second look by the President.

        I am open to any ideas.

  • brettearle

    This `secession business’ reflects a deeper discontent, throughout some parts of the country:

    More and more people, and groups of people, are likely to take (what they consider to be) drastic matters, into their own hands, via drastic measures.

    It is troubling

    Have we not witnessed States opting out, or threatening to opt out, of the Medicaid part of ObamaCare?

    Secession is simply a more radical form of protest against the Law(s) of the Land.

    What’s more, the Tea Party helps to, destructively, alienate the opportunity and capacity for compromise.

    Because there are so many institutions, currently, that may be fraught with decay or dysfunction, this ‘secession business’ may only be the beginning of what might become worsening civil unrest in the future.  

    This behavior is more than sour grapes.

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

      This behavior may be the only way to SAVE the Union, by forcing the Federal government to stop its wasteful spending. Its not about race, color, creed, “class”, “revenue”, or taxation. Its about graft, greed, corruption, waste, fraud, abuse, and treason by the very people chosen to represent us…

      Before asking the “top 2%” to contribute their “fair share”, how about CUTTING $1 Trillion in wasteful and unnecessary spending…

      That includes ObamaPhones, ObamaCare, “Aid” to foreign dictators and despots, military “expeditions” of dubious need and outcome, “Pork”, salaries and expense accounts for elected officials; lobbyists, corporate welfare, and the now ridiculously complex IRS as well as the fraudulent Fed.

  • ttajtt

    texann’s are a Minority?

  • stephenreal

    Well time to pull all US military bases out of Texas.
    Stop all medicare and medicaid payments.
    Ahh yes and no more social security payments to grandma and and grandpa.

    Did I forget signing any piece paper rejecting your US citizenship means the Feds can pull your gun license to boot?

    How are these dumb, dumbs going to pull this off again?

    • ttajtt

      $timulation income… 

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Chris-Burns/1817648074 Chris Burns

      If we didn’t have to support the rest of you {dumb,dumbs} we could afford to take care of ourselves thank you very much

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

      Hmmm… let’s address your claims, point by point:

      1. Go ahead, take the personnel and the movable equipment, we have plenty of our own. Or maybe you would like us to buy some of the equipment, to help you with your debt? PS: We have Lockheed, Raytheon, Boeing, and other defense contractors already manufacturing materiel in our state.

      2. Medicare is available to ex-pats living all over the world, although they would need to return to the US to use it.

      3. Medicaid is currently distributed by the STATE. With a properly functioning LIMITED government in place, less people will require Medicaid, Food Stamps, WIC, AFDC, and other Federal handout programs – many more people with be earning a living wage, as more jobs will be available and the cost of living will go down.

      4. VA benefits, Social Security, etc are still paid to ex-pats.

      5. I don’t see where anyone is calling for rejecting US citizenship – dual citizenship programs exist now.

      6. There is no such thing as a FEDERAL gun carry license… Concealed Carry permits are issued by the STATE. If you are referring to FFL for sale and manufacture, well duh, that would not apply anymore, would it, inside the Republic. Foreign firearms manufacturers do business inside and with the US now, so how exactly does that change?

      Stephen, please do some research before shooting off your mouth, as you’ve only made yourself out to be the “dumb dumb”.

    • http://www.facebook.com/dallas.keating Dallas Kelly Keating

      pull gun license…only if you have a concealed gun license…which I dont care if they take that or not I will carry a gun whenever I want.  And if the goverment wants to try to take those(guns)…it will be a cold day in hell before they accomplish that task.

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.j.brooks David J Brooks

      Yep, time to pull all your american troops out of Texas, and we’ll pull the Texians out of your military, about a third of your troops at this point. 

      Ah yes and no more social security and medicaid being pulled from my paycheck to fund a collapsing pyramid scheme.

      And yes, by all means go ahead and pull my gun licence. Oh, wait, no, sorry that came from Texas, not Washington City. Guess I get to keep that. And our oil, and beef and corn and cotton and aw hell, we’ll just keep Texas and you can keep your tyranny.

  • Shag_Wevera

    I heard the petition in Texas has reached 150,000 signatures.  In any case, don’t let the door hit you in the lone star on your way out. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Chris-Burns/1817648074 Chris Burns

      You may live to regret those words when we win. Then what are you going to do without us?
       

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000597494222 Kenneth Smith

       See, we have agreement! It’s all good.

  • Shag_Wevera

    I don’t think breaking this country up into some smaller components is absurd.  Unfortunately, constitutional conventions are pretty much impossible.  Those with federal power are also highly unlikely to see it reduced or eliminated.  A Civil War II wouldn’t be good for anyone, and 50 seperate nations would be a tangled, balkanized mess.

    Here are my suggestions for reasonable partition:
    1.  Great Lakes States.  Minn, WI, Ill, In, Mi, Oh
    2.  New England.  East coast down to around Va.
    3.  Pacifica.     Cal, Oregon, Wash, Nevada, Haw, Alaska.
    4.  New Tea-Land.  States not mentioned above

    I’m open to swapping individual states, but I think the basic zones are good.

    • Gary Trees

      Might as well just divide it up by college football divisions.  B1G just absorbed Maryland and New Jersey in anticiptation of these coming changes.

  • Ray in VT

    This isn’t really anything new, is it?  There have been people advocating secession for a long time.  Maybe now the Internet is just magnifying their voice.

    There’s been the Second Republic movement here in Vermont for some time, and one would think that they don’t want to live under the same roof as Texas either.  I wonder if some of this attention is just to fill the void that has been left by the merciful end of the election.

    Conan O’Brien’s joke was that most of the people who had signed the Texas petition weren’t from Texas.

  • 1Brett1

    If secession represents a larger problem of discontent, than discontent represents a larger problem than discontent. Would anyone care to guess the makeup of folks who’ve initiated these petitions? How ’bout those who’ve signed the petitions? 

    How many years of hammering the same rhetoric, the same uncompromising stances, and the same separatist mindsets does it take to gin up armchair mob rule? 

    This “movement” knows it’s not serious about secession, but it also knows the value of the power of socio-political unrest.

    • Ray in VT

      I read this about one of the guys behind the Alabama petition, and it’s pretty funny:

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/16/derrick-belcher-alabama-secession-petition-topless-carwash_n_2143456.html

      Basically the guy has a beef with the Federal government over a state law that shut down his topless car wash.

      • Steve__T

        Whats funny is it was a state law not a federal law that shut down his business. And he blames the feds making laws that shut him down, talk about misdirected anger. Why did he not petition his own state legislature? Or move to another state?

        • Ray in VT

          That was one of the funniest bits of the whole article.  It was the state that shut him down!

    • Gregg Smith

      What is Democracy if it’s not mob rule?

      • stephenreal

        well the Republic of Rome and Alexander the Great didn’t too bad with representative gov’t…

      • Ray in VT

        Democracy as mob rule is more of an 18th century view than a 21st century one.  It may have been seen that way in 1789, which is why Americans don’t actually vote for President.  Such as important decision couldn’t be wholly put in the hands of the great unwashed masses.

        Here is Merriam Webster’s definition:

        a : government by the people; especially : rule of the majority b : a government in which the supreme power is vested
        in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a
        system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections

        • Gregg Smith

          “Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner, liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.” 

          That paraphrased quote is usually attributed to Ben Franklin but I don’t think that’s verified. But it rings true, I’m glad we don’t have a Democracy. However, we do have a situation where the masses who want stuff from government (AKA other taxpayers) out number those who foot the bill. It’s a tipping point.

          • Ray in VT

            “Madison defined a “pure democracy”
            as “a society consisting of a small number of citizens, who assemble
            and administer the government in person,” and a republic as “a
            government in which the scheme of representation takes place.” According
            to Madison, “The two great points of difference between a democracy
            and a republic, are: first, the delegation of the government, in the
            latter, to a small number of citizens elected by the rest; secondly, the
            greater the number of citizens, and greater sphere of country, over
            which the latter may be extended.” In short, for Madison, democracy meant direct democracy, and republic meant representative government.”

            Both democracy and republic at their heart mean government by the people.  One is more direct, the other is representative.  There was some bias against the popular will, which must be constrained in order to protect the rights of the minority, but there was also a bias during that time against women, who were often thought to be mentally incapable of complex thought, and against people of African descent, who were legally discriminated against.

            I disagree with your narrative regarding the whole takers versus the makers.  There are some who ride the system, but the vast majority of Americans are out working hard to provide a better life, and they should not be derided for thinking that they should have fair wages, a secure old age and the sort of access to health care that the citizens of every other developed nation have.  We can do better than working longer hours for less than we did a generation ago.

          • jefe68

            Ray your wasting your time with this guy. He’s so bent out of shape from listening to the likes Limbough and O’Reilly to the point all he does is post their ideology. 

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            Yeah, but at some point one of “us” has to “do the math” rather than figure that everyone knows it.

            To allegorize: A kajillion people will watch The Nutcracker Suite between now and New Year’s. About everyone in the audience will know some of the music, but not everyone knows the plot.

          • Gregg Smith

            We’re talking Ben Franklin and James Madison, not Rush. Ray’s a good guy.

            Do you have a purpose?

          • Gregg Smith

            Thanks, that’s interesting. I think the correlation between Democracy and “mob rule” is valid but it may be semantic. There are certainly reasons the founders gave us a Republic.

            I don’t like the terms “makers” and “takers” because I don’t think it’s that blatant. I agree most people work hard and want a better life. But when the rubber meets the road there are a disproportionate number of people who don’t have skin in the game. I don’t deride them at all for wanting a “fair wage” (whatever that is). I would deride the concept of the government stepping in to say what is fair or put everyone in the same category of merit before any work is done or worth is assessed.

          • Ray in VT

            I think that choice of republic was necessary because, as an indirect system, it was the only way to make popular rule possible given the wide geographical distances and slow travel in the 18th century.

            I also disagree with your “skin in the game” line.  Most people are paying into Medicare and Medicaid, and most pay sales taxes, especially in states that tax things like groceries.

            I deride the concept that just letting things ride and letting the invisible hand take care of things because it has proven that it doesn’t work in the sense that provides equitable outcomes that benefit the society at large.  The beauty of social programs that began to emerge during the late 19th century was that they sought to alleviate the worst abuses of the purest form of capitalism yet seen, and, thereby, to head of massive social discord by improving the lives of the large mass of people, and, largely, it has worked.

            If you want to see laissez-faire at work, then take a look at the late 19th century.  I know that you’ve said that you don’t think that income inequality matters, but I highly disagree.  I also think that much in the “natural” system doesn’t reward merit or worth.  Our current system rewards pro athletes to the tune of millions while the farmers who toil to feed the country scrape to get by.

          • Gregg Smith

            I don’t argue with a safety net. I do think we need to sure up Medicare and Medicaid. That’s not the issue. Food Stamps, WIC, welfare checks, Disability payments, unemployment pay for 99 weeks are some of my issues. And I don’t want to be cruel, I want to help. These programs are abused. Big time. No one wants the elderly to be ignored. 

          • Ray in VT

            I can agree with both of your first sentences, but not after that, except for that some people do abuse some of the programs that you mention.  I think that the idea that you want to help the working poor, and some if not many of them, do work very hard for what they are bringing home and trying to make ends meet with, by cutting programs that provide food assistance to pregnant women, small children, the unemployed, and the disabled is laughable.  I think that many people do not want to be on these programs, and many who are are not on them for horrendeous amounts of time, and I think that society as a whole benefits when those who have the least do not fall too far into poverty.  I think that such talk, as well as your comments from the other day against the minimum wage and OSHA regulations, should largely be relegated to the dust bin of history.  We have seen what society looks like when there are economic hardships, and in the years before the New Deal it was a recession every 10 years and a depression every 20, and there is not a safety net like unemployment insurance, and it isn’t pretty.  I don’t know how we could continue to call ourselves a decent society if we were to turn our collective backs on the poor, the sick and the disabled, because private charity can’t cut it.  There needs to be a governmental response as far as I’m concerned.

          • jefe68

            However, we do have a situation where the masses who want stuff from
            government (AKA other taxpayers) out number those who foot the bill.

            One word describes this idea, nonsense. I and everyone I know voted for President Obama and we all pay taxes. Get it. Millions of people across the nation voted for Obama and they also pay taxes.

            Your meme is getting tired. By the way, Bill O’Reilly called and wants his diatribe back.

      • 1Brett1

        I didn’t say anything about mob rule, and we don’t live in a democracy (albeit both democracy and republic are about power being in the hands of the people, the latter being more representational), but let’s go with your absurd starting point of a conversational exchange (from the apocryphal notion that it was a Ben Franklin idea). If it is true that mob rule is democracy, and if these people calling for secession arm themselves, it then becomes liberty?

        • Gregg Smith

          “How many years of hammering the same rhetoric, the same uncompromising stances, and the same separatist mindsets does it take to gin up armchair mob rule?” 
          “I didn’t say anything about mob rule”

          • 1Brett1

            I meant democracy and mob rule, but yeah, focus on a typo than answering a direct question

          • Gregg Smith

            Your question is as silly as the secession bandwagon.

          • 1Brett1

            Hey, you’re the one who brought up the nonsense about liberty means being well armed and democracy is just a sheep ready to be eaten by wolves. You said it rings true; what am I to ask re: that nonsense?

      • Jian Sun

        Let’s be civilized a little. Democracy is the rule of the stronger not necessarily the more righteous – what’s the reference anyway?

    • Yar

      Petitions have real consequence. Our local library is under siege by small minority of petition gatherers.  The library was created by petition, and the law allows for it to be closed by the same process.  My guess is that the legislature thought the legislation provided symmetry. So if enough signatures are submitted and verified, then our local library system (5 locations) would close, be sold at auction and remaining debts paid by taxpayers, all before a new library taxing district can be formed.  

      See the facebook page at: 
      http://www.facebook.com/savepulaskilibrary

      Here is a new animation created to tell the story.About 2 minutes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ghuhKRY-0c&feature=youtu.be

      • 1Brett1

        My point wasn’t about the general disturbance of petitions, it was about the lack of seriousness of this newest secession movement and yet the mob rule mentality it gins up, which has little to do with your local library.

        • Yar

          There is a secession movement for KY as well.  From the data I pulled from the Whitehouse website, of the 19,263 signers, only 6292 claim they are from Kentucky, and of those it looks like 118 are from my small rural county with a population of 63,000.  
          By looking at the public profile on the Facebook page of one of the organizers of our local library petition, it is very much the same. A vandal under-estimates the damage they are causing.

          http://www.facebook.com/bkflynnsanders1?fref=ts

          • 1Brett1

            I get your point, and it is true that such mentalities do represent more than discontent, which, generally, is what I said. I also said that a specific “movement” can gin up overall problems. I was commenting about a lack of seriousness as it pertains to secession, not other municipal problems. While in the abstract/general sense there are similarities between your local library problem and the secession phenomena, they are not “very much the same.” Similar types of people cause similar types of problems, and it appears as if people who are for secession are similar people to the ones calling for closing your library, which is a kind of belligerent stand for rugged individualism of some sort. 

          • http://wh.gov/IVp4 Yar

            Only in the case of our local library, 6,500 certified signatures will create a legal precedent to close it.  Even the petition collectors say they don’t want that result. I live in a county that spent nearly 500,000 dollars of taxpayer money to fight removal of the ten commandments from the court house.  The ex-judge executive who put up the document in the first place spoke for the close the library petition (they don’t call it that.)  
            All politics is local, 118 vandals can cause a lot of damage.  At least we have a list of who they are. 

          • 1Brett1

            You’re not getting my point about secession itself. Although, I DID include in my point that the mentality that stirs this up also stirs up armchair activism and can cause problems. But, my point was that secession ITSELF is not a serious desire for most of these people but a political one.

          • http://wh.gov/IVp4 Yar

            I agree, and my point is that the vandal doesn’t understand why they do what they do and they feel that what they destroy is not theirs. or they don’t have a constructive outlet for their anger. Political operatives use this anger for their own ends. In the case of my local library it is the same as the secession movement. They don’t want the damage they will cause by filing the petition. They have painted themselves into a corner, where they appear to lose face if they don’t file. The old judge and
            his cronies are exploiting the issue to gain power. The difference is that the library is not protected by a rational political process, the law was written to be followed by adults, not immature radicals looking for attention. If they file the petition we end up in court and real damage and cost occur. The vandal has no means to pay for the damage they inflict. The right to petition is an important right in our country and I hate to see it abused.
            What happens ten years from now when someone is applying for a federal job, and their background check shows that they voted for secession. Should that be considered in the employment decision?
            Signing a petition has consequences.

          • sickofthechit

             Being a life-long Kentuckian it rankles me a little that we are apparently so disliked by the rest of the nation that more than twice the secession signatures for my state are from out of staters’. charles

  • Jasoturner

    Highly undemocratic, no?  If your party does not win, you don’t accept the vote of the majority.  Instead, you take your ball and go home.  This inability to accept the legitimacy of contrary thinking appears to be growing in the age of the internet, where building virtual echo chambers is so easy.

    • BHA_in_Vermont

       So if a Republican wins in 2016, will Texas say “nevermiiiind!”

      • Jasoturner

        Dunno.  It seems if people don’t get things 100% their way, anger and outrage are the new normal.  Party in power may not mean much.  Though I don’t remember quite as much gnashing of teeth before Obama got into the big chair…

      • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

         I believe the people who actually support Texas seceding, will always support Texas seceding, regardless of who is in office.  It’s not about who is president, no matter how much you try to make it out to be that way.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000597494222 Kenneth Smith

        BHA — I’m from Alabama, so I’m pleased to make your acquaintance, but I think you slightly miss the point. The issue is not about which party was elected, the problem is the aggrandizement of federal power over individuals’ lives. The Obama Administration has accomplished that with the passage of the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare), and the National Defense Authorization Act. I could name several more examples. Any party which extends federal power in this manner will be opposed. Bush was opposed for the Patriot Act, and these recent enactments represent the tipping point. We firmly believe the federal government cannot be reformed and must be left to its own devices with the support of those who want it this way, and those who wish to leave and prevent federal power intervening in their lives believe now is the time to sever those ties.

  • TomK_in_Boston

    The right misrepresents the Constitution whenever they like. They present it as something supporting “state’s rights”. Actually we tried the powerful states model first with the Articles of Confederation. The FF realized that was a disaster and gave us the Constitution, which established a powerful Federal government. Yea for the FF!

    The righty agenda is going backward in time, revisiting all the bad old practices we thought were ancient history, so what could be more logical than revisiting secession?

    A big part of the secession talk, along with racism, is all the “government is bad” talk and taking for granted all the things we get from OUR government. Sorta like the TeaOP geezers on SS and medicare and disability, or the farmers with their ag subsidies,  complaining about big gub’mint.

    The current yammering is just the sore losers and will pass. I’d be happy to see the red states gone. We should have let them go in 1860. They can have their 3′rd world  theocracy-oligarchy, while we move on with a middle class 21′st century nation. We can use them for cheap labor, if they can compete with vietnam, and as a source of raw materials.

    Maybe they’ll figure out how to base a biotech industry on  “creation science” :)

    • sdlt

      TomK,

      Brilliant comment. I’d also be delighted to see the end of these jerks!!!!  

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000597494222 Kenneth Smith

         We agree, sdlt! The feeling is mutual. You wish to be rid of us; we wish to be rid of you. Perhaps we can be better neighbors from different countries!

    • Acnestes

      Interestingly, one of the reasons the Confederacy lost the Civil War was because the central government established by their constitution was so weak (out of deference to states rights) that they couldn’t effectively coordinate their war effort, the individual states doing pretty much whatever they wanted.

      • Ray in VT

        Apparently the CSA didn’t learn or understand the lessons of the United States under the Articles of Confederation, which exhibited many of the same problems.

        • http://twitter.com/paoligarcy Paolina

          Nonsense. The CSA defeated the Union in many battles, and it’s government form was designed for peacetime to be unoppressive. The CSA lived in peace side by side with the Union for months, but Lincoln conspired to keep federal lands in the South and supplied the bases via the Sea, to provoke the South into attacking. It eventually worked at Fort Sumpter. THAT was the CSA’s real blunder. They should of simply waited out the union, a few more months of peace and nations would of started to recognize the CSA.

          The REAL reason the CSA lost was because the Union had triple the population and land, and blockaded the South.

          CSA soldiers still killed about two Yankees each time they lost a man. It was a valiant effort against a nation vastly larger and with much more population.

          The CSA offered to free their slaves later on to the British if the British joined the war, but then Gettysburg happened. Had Lee won at Gettysburg, the British would of joined the war, the CSA would of issued their own “Emancipation Proclamation”, etc.

          Funny how history can depend so much on one battle.

        • http://twitter.com/paoligarcy Paolina

          As for the Articles of Confederation, Patrick Henry, the famed “Give me Liberty or Give me Death!” founder opposed the Constitution in his famous speech which persuaded Virginia to reject it:

          “The Confederation, this same despised government, merits, in my opinion, the highest encomium: it carried us through a long and dangerous war; it rendered us victorious in that bloody conflict with a powerful nation; it has secured us a territory greater than any European monarch possesses: and shall a government which has been thus strong and vigorous, be accused of imbecility, and abandoned for want of energy?”

          Of course unfortunately the USA ran a scam system where it could be ratified decades later, so basically they just kept trying year after year to force it on the people and eventually they succeeded, except in Rhode Island which was the last to ratify because they wanted paper money and the constitution, to this day, bans that, though apparently the constitution is null and void so paper money is used.

          Though paper money might be a good thing, if the money printed were used to fund the government (in place of taxation the government could just print the same amount of money and avoid the paperwork), but unfortunately any money printed is the property of the private bank called the “Federal Reserve”, which was ruled to not be a federal agency in court but a for-profit private entity.

    • http://www.facebook.com/terrence.lorelei Terrence Lorelei

      Great thinking, Tommy.  You must have been educated in one of those open-minded bastions of higher learning that permeate the Peoples’ Republic of Massachusetts.

      At any rate, I am glad that you have chosen to support the Texas Independence Movement.  Can we count on you for a contribution?

      • TomK_in_Boston

        Yeah, we know about evolution and what happens when you put CO2 into the atmosphere and everythin’.

        I’d be glad to be rid of you guys who whine about the gub’mint while sucking off it to the max, but I feel bad for my 21′st century friends in Austin.

        No contribution, you guys are always looking for a freebie.

  • 1Brett1

    Those poor Austinites…

    • TomK_in_Boston

      That is a problem. An “Austin corridor” to New Mexico perhaps? Unfortunately those arrangements have not worked out well historically.

      • Ray in VT

        Like the Danzig Corridor?

        • Acnestes

          The Free City of Austin!  Has a nice ring to it.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1408098372 Mari McAvenia

          …Or the Wakhan Corridor in Afghanistan?

          • Ray in VT

            I’m not familiar with that one.

        • TomK_in_Boston

          Exactly :)

    • JustEdith

       I understand they have a magnificent library at the university there.  Would it go the way of the one in Alexandria?

  • stephenreal

    .005% of southern rascists from the Great state of Texas want to succeed?

    They better ask mommy and daddy first.

    Some people are just plain retarded.

  • ttajtt

    would not the same actions, be the same of the new  same ruler?   aways a up down side side back forth talk dividing class warfare hats’ & cores’ that is the way cap tail gains works, no equalizium allowed.

    you can keep up with the jones, greens, browns, blacks, whites, smiths.

    but you can’t be equal, same alike, share…    

    • Gary Trees

      WAT?

  • http://www.facebook.com/dan.meraw Dan Meraw

    We hear this same argument every few years from Quebecers (albeit, for different reasons).  We then hear the counter arguement..  Will parts of Texas be able to separate and re-join the US?

    • http://twitter.com/tymcis tymcinnis

      Indeed! The Texas Constitution provides for the right of Secession from the Republic,  for individual Counties. 

  • J__o__h__n

    BYE!

    • sickofthechit

       Best comment of the morn!

  • Acnestes

    What does ZZ Top think?  They’re the only Texans who actually matter.

    • stephenreal

      without ZZ Top support this all just a farce.

  • Wm_James_from_Missouri

    Question: If all of our “ex-es” live in Texas, will succession mean we will no longer have to pay alimony and child support ? Time to give up the locoweed Mr. Cowboy !

    • Ray in VT

      I suppose that it depends if you still hang your hat in Tennessee.

  • http://twitter.com/Astraspider Astraspider

    “We’ll hears the case”? If that’s not a typo, it’s pretty funny.

  • Coastghost

    So whatever did happen to “multiculturalism”? It turns out to have been an appreciably large lie: multiculturalists do not accept authentic cultural differentiation, and never have. Instead “multiculturalism” serves as the monocultural big tent in which cultural conformity is the norm and the expectation, as long as the spotlight gets swung to illumine cultural ghettos one by one every so often. (It’s hard to champion “inclusiveness” once people realize they really don’t want to associate with your political programme.) American multiculturalists are not accepting cultural differentiation when they champion California-style feminism in Russia, Massachusetts-styled conceptions of women’s rights in Afghanistan, New York sensibilities of homosexual rights in sub-Saharan Africa, or Illinois-minded versions of what minority rights should look like in China: “the whole world’s got to be just like us”, as John Kay sang for Steppenwolf in the 1960s. The cultural imperialism that’s been parading for decades under the name “multiculturalism” is no less loathsome than prior efforts at winning hearts and minds abroad: no huge surprise that Americans have little use for or belief in its domestic applications, either.  –Or, as I enjoy saying: “promote multiculturalism–abolish public education.”

  • Prairie_W

    As a Texan living in west central TX, it would be careless not to note that many old timers — descendants of the original settlers, proud farmers and businessmen and community leaders in many cases — have made it clear they find this secession thing embarrassing and ridiculous.  Which it is.  And the current secession talk and support comes in large part from outside the state. It’s what we used to call an attention-getting device.

    Texas is and continues to be a significant beneficiary of goodies from the other 49 states.  Texas’ (awful!) governor ran for the presidency of the federal gubment and was cheered on by many Texans.  Who now want to secede?  No, not really.  Exhibitionists, they unzip their flies like this every few years.  “Embarrassing and ridiculous” only begins to describe them. 

    • http://twitter.com/tymcis tymcinnis

      Please remove yourself from Texas!! You are embarrassing and MOST ridiculous.  You do NOT carry the True Voice of “many old timers — descendants of the original settlers, proud farmers”!   My guess is that you do; however, represent the Greedy and Immoral group of businessmen and community leaders in Texas, that mirror the evolved politics of the present-day U.S.A., and the group of Criminals who are now ruling over it, as a Socialist Dictatorship. You know nothing about the great Republic of Texas, or what it stands for! Remove Yourself from Texas ! 

    • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

       I’ll have you know, I happen to be a descendent of the “original settlers”.  We have always been and always will be Texan.  And there is nothing embarrassing or ridiculous about wanting a better life for our children.  In fact, that’s what brought the original settlers to Texas to begin with, in case you forgot.  And Texas gets (for example, in small terms so you can understand) $4.00 for every $5.00 it sends to Washington. 

      As for Perry, well….every family has an idiot.  He just happens to be ours. 

      • DrewInGeorgia

        Entitled by Birthright ? Good for you. I wish you success in your secession.

        • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

           Entitled?  Who said anything about entitled?  I was commenting to Prairie because he/she said that old timers who descended from “original settlers” were embarrassed.  Just proving that even us “younguns” were descended from them as well, and are for secession.  The only entitlement I have is life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness…hopefully in a free and independent Texas. 

      • Prairie_W

        Speaking of children, the brokers for Texas education have done their best already to excise key parts of American history.  Get lost, Thomas Jefferson! Go away, black history! We never had slavery!  Give Jefferson Davis equal billing with Lincoln!

        In that sense, Texas seceded years ago.  Unfortunately, Texas (given its size and heft) has tended to dictate what kids in the rest of the US read in their history classes.

        “Last year, conservatives on the same board changed the science
        curriculum to downplay the teaching of evolution and the Big Bang
        theory of the creation of the Universe.”

        Concern for Texas’ (and America’s) children’s better lives should probably start with a better education.  Texas, or at least some parts of Texas, was lucky in its original settlers whose first concern was establishing schools for all their children.  That has broken down and is fragmenting with more and more parents opting for breakaway schools with sectarian teaching as in many other parts of the US.

        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/7750458/Biblical-values-and-Confederates-promoted-in-Texas-textbook-revisions.html

        Yes, it’s true.  Many of us would love to see — not Texas seceding from America but the anti-education radicals on the right in TX (and elsewhere) engaging in, um, self-deportation as distinct from secession?

        • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

           So, a guy in New York is writing about education in Texas? ;-)

          Ok, I’ll give you that.  The public school system, AS A WHOLE IN EVERY STATE, is broken. 

          I believe (and this is just my opinion) that all theories should be taught.  Big bang, evolution, as well as religious views being touched on as well….Christian, Native American, Hindu, etc.  How can a child, or an adult for that matter, make an educated decision about anything when only one choice is presented. 

          As for American History….same goes.  It’s never been taught correctly.  The history I was “taught” in college was radically different from the history I was “taught” in grade school.  Historical versions are just that….versions, depending on who is writing them.

          But problems with the education of today’s youth has nothing to do with the right and responsibility to discuss and consider secession when our government is not adhering to the principles of our DoI and the Constitution.  It’s an entirely different debate, one that we would probably find a lot of points to agree on.

          • Prairie_W

            There is a problem of muddied thinking, though, Marissa.  We need to be a lot more careful about what we teach as demonstrable fact (slavery in America) and what popular fiction/belief (Garden of Eden). 

          • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

             Ok.  So you’re ok with teaching your views, just not someone else’s?  And I don’t mean my views, I mean ANYONE else’s.

            You can teach a theory as just that….a theory.  I believe the “popular fiction/belief of the Garden of Eden” would fall under that category, the same as the theory of relativity, evolution, etc. 

          • Prairie_W

             Mud!

          • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

             Mud.  Is that the same thing as pulling the race card? 

          • Ray in VT

            The Garden of Eden is not a theory in the scientific sense, so, therefore, should not be taught in science class.  There is a place for it in a comparative religion class, and such a class is valuable for one to understand history and society, but certainly does not belong in the science curriculum.

          • 1Brett1

            Come on, Prairie, southern slavery is just a fictional story! [sarcasm] Like evolution and relativity!

      • BHA_in_Vermont

         What percent of your blood is “First Nation” American Indian?

        • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

          ???  “First Nation” American Indian? 

          Maybe you need to explain further, because when I googled that, it said First Nation refers to Canadian Indian, not American.

          As for percentage of blood of American Indian, I’m not entirely sure.  My maternal grandfather’s mother was full blood Native American (I’m not sure which tribe, but my mother has the genealogy documentation) and on my maternal grandmother’s side, there were a few Native American’s further back than that (again, the genealogy has been done, but I can’t quote specifics).

          So, if you were trying to “get me” by saying I’m not native to this land mass because the “big, bad white man” took it from the Indians, nice try.  I’m a mutt (that would be a mixture of all kinds of backgrounds)….just like most of the Americans who live in this country. 

          I’m Texan.  Bless your heart for helping me make my point. ;-)

        • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

           Oh, and as for my father’s side….not sure.  He was adopted. 

          How about you?  What percent are you?  Not that it matters….

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1408098372 Mari McAvenia

      “No manners.”, as my late Texan granny put it. She would be disgusted by the lack of civility in this important discussion. OK, we get it, a handful of angry, impolite people who happen to live in Texas want out of the United States of America. Fair enough. The door is open. Let’s not forget to count all the silverware after they’re gone.

  • Expanded_Consciousness

    “United we stand, divided we fall.”

    I guess Texicans wants China to rule the world in the 21st century and conquer us all.

    Off Wiki: The first attributed use in modern times is to John Dickinson in his revolutionary war song The Liberty Song. In the song, first published in the Boston Gazette in July 1768, he wrote: “Then join hand in hand, brave Americans all! By uniting we stand, by dividing we fall!”

    • Jian Sun

      United (i.e. divided in reality) we argue and fight and going nowhere dysfunctional, seceded we’re all in peace so long as we not preaching to each other – that’s the ultimate solution between democrats and republicans, ideologies, religions and the like.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/QMDZ3LH5U2B4GAT7J2HS4TCP6E Jim

    Texas, if you secede… WE WILL COME AFTER YOU. WE WILL MESS WITH TEXAS… and WE WILL NOT FORGET THE ALAMO.

    -Federal Government

    • LibertarianBiker

      ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    • David Roberts

      Bring it.

    • http://twitter.com/tymcis tymcinnis

      You will not like the results!   …. Oh … and be sure, that You are on the front line, of the skirmish. I wouldn’t want you to miss any of the action ! 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nancy-Janzen/100002850437081 Nancy Janzen

    In the end all state or federal sovereignity derives from the consent of the governed. When the governed remove their consent they remove the sovereignity claimed by any government. It is up to the people of Texas who will be given consent to rule them.

  • Henryfromwayland

    In the weeks since President Obama’s re-election….
    It’s spelled reelection. 

  • SuziVt

    Let them, they’ll soon find out, it’s their loss. Just think, no more Texas presidents, senators, or congressmen.

    • sickofthechit

       or governors!  Oh to be rid of that legacy!

  • MadMarkTheCodeWarrior

    What percentage of the general population is certifiably insane? 25,000 out of 25,000,000 sounds about right in line.

    Looks like the extreme right propaganda machine keeping fear alive! 

  • sickofthechit

    My dear departed mother was born in San Antonio and bore that distinction with pride her whole life.  She would be ashamed of her home state’s behavior on this issue.

    Isn’t Texas one of the red states that is a net debtor (receiving more in fed benefits than it pays in federal taxes?). Will they have to pay all that back first?

    • http://www.facebook.com/terrence.lorelei Terrence Lorelei

      No, Texas is NOT a “net debtor”.  By the Federal Government’s own figures, Texas, over the past 20 years, has contributed billions more to the federal treasury than it has received, and that includes interstate highway construction!

  • atticusfinchesq

    A lot of folks talking who have no clue.  First, Texans have wanted to secede long before now.  The out-of-control government is the reason.  And Texans have always been more independent.  Texas was the only state that was its own country before becoming a state.

    And those who keep claiming the USA is a democracy are simply wrong.  The USA is a Republic.  There is a difference.

    And those who say stuff like taking out your military bases, etc. Fine.  We can use the land.  And, by the way, we WILL keep our oil.

    Texas CAN succeed.

    • http://www.facebook.com/doc.gordon Doc Gordon

      Don’t dawdle, then.

  • LibertarianBiker

    Any government that would attack us for nothing more than the peaceful act of walking away isn’t the kind of government that we want to be associated with.

  • http://twitter.com/en_b ian berry

    I love the idea, let California secede too. The country of California will be the richest most productive country in the entire world.

    • Expanded_Consciousness

      So, why are they so broke now?

      • http://twitter.com/en_b ian berry

        so you agree with me.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=9020459 Olia Yelner

    Let them go. They are frequent purveyors of crazy and extreme right wing. Good riddance.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=9020459 Olia Yelner

    Let them go. They are frequent purveyors of crazy and extreme right wing. Good riddance.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/YMV2HJ2TBKMCN2QRAVI3I2OOGM Jim Jim

    Please take Arizona with you

  • BHA_in_Vermont

    We had to put up with 8 years of Reagan, 4 years of Bush I and 8 years of Bush II blowing the debt out the roof and “trickle down” economics moving all the money to the 2%. Texas can put up with a few years of “the other way”. 

  • JustEdith

     Ok.  So put it to referendum and leave us alone already. 

  • Roy-in-Boise

    Let them and their school textbook committee go off to neo-con nirvana. When the next hurricane hits Galveston and the Houston area they can show the world what self reliance is all about. No green cards for Texans. No Visas. No coming back. Good riddance!

  • adks12020

    Let them go. 

  • adks12020

    Let them go. 

  • LibertarianBiker

     Texas pays more to the federal government than it receives in benefits from them.  We lose 6c of each dollar contributed.

    • http://www.facebook.com/doc.gordon Doc Gordon

      Then leave.

    • Scott B

      That’s simply not true. It gets more than a dollar back for every dollar sent in, as do most of the southern states.  

    • Scott B

      Don’t forget that Texas has lots of Defense Dept bases and job, parts of NASA, and other Fed Agencies that bring billions upon billions of dollars into the state. That all goes POOF! If they were to secede they’d owe for their many loans from the Fed gov’t, and they can’t pay for what they’re doing now or they wouldn’t be getting more dollars back for every dollar they pay in.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QVQHNUW23IXBTDMDN4WBS4CMSI Peter

    I see a bunch of people commenting that seem to be OK with not following the Constitution.  Texan’s believe in that document and are willing to go it alone to ensure enduring freedom.  The rest of you are a bunch of pussies.  Let the government take care of you.  Follow blindly.  

    • Scott B

       They believe in the parts they think they see and understandand want to apply to them.

  • Michiganjf

    C’mon Tom!

      These people represent a small fraction of one percent of the population in Texas!!!

      Just how much attention do you need to give their absurd tantrum??!!

    They CERTAINLY don’t merit a full hour on a program as prestigious as ON POINT!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/James-Patrick-Dwyer-Jr/100002088204784 James Patrick Dwyer Jr.

    I live in Tennessee and some folks here has signed the petition also. There are some people in the South that believe that resslin(wrestling) is real, Fox news is fair and balanced and Jesus Christ is coming next Tuesday. You can’t pay too much attention to these folks.

  • Ruth Perkins

    So when George was lying and sending innocents to war I too wanted to become “independent’ and withdraw from the lies, but I had to keep paying for the illegal war and I had to keep fighting to change administrations.
    Texas, go for it, but don’t expect innocents to fight your wars or protect your borders from even more people of color besides my most adored President Obama and Michelle Obama.

  • WeHaveLostOurMinds

    Secessionists apparently cannot find the Mexican border.
    Anyone so unhappy as to want to leave the Union, please fill up your gas tank and drive south.

    Adios!!!

  • BHA_in_Vermont

    How about a petition on the White House web site against the Texas secede petition and see how many sign that one.

  • http://wh.gov/IVp4 Yar

    Your guest wants Texas to get a divorce but doesn’t want to go through divorce court.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=9020459 Olia Yelner

    One less red state and a great buffer between us and Mexico. 

  • OMA_OPINES

    Please leave – and take the rest of your gun-toting, hateful angry white men (and their “little women”) with you.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      What an intelligent post! That is sarcasm in case you’re wondering.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1299754406 Tom Dempsey

    Let them go.  Good riddance. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      Enjoy the gulag.

  • Steve__T

    Remember the Alamo! This time around, Mexico would over run them in less than three months. And Texas would cease to exist.   

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      You do not have the facts on your side.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

    Texas gets eighty cents back for every dollar it send to Washington- the opposite of what one uninformed serf said below. The original intent of the founders was a union of independent states. Ever heard of the Tenth Amendment, part of a little something called the Bill of Rights? The populace has been dumbed down by government schools – history has been sanitized. The Declaration of Independence makes it clear that the people have a right and duty to form a new government if their government becomes oppressive. The Commerce Clause does not justify government controlling every aspect of one’s life.

    And for God’s sake, it is not about Obama, the Texas Nationalist Movement has been working towards independence for 16 years.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/6LLBJRD6KU2FPVUIJ5KQC73TZM yahoo-6LLBJRD6KU2FPVUIJ5KQC73TZM

    Texas could survive on it’s own? Even as part of the United states it’s having trouble at it’s southern borders. Does this guy think they can unilaterally defend themselves?

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      If we were independent we would, unlike the federal government, defend our borders. That is what a country is supposed to do. Today the feds smack down the states who try to enforce their borders, even while the feds abdicate their duty.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1408098372 Mari McAvenia

    The proposal of secession by Texas is absurd. Here’s an equally absurd scenario:  Give the entire state back to Mexico.

    I wonder how these bellicose secessionists would feel when they found themselves completely surrounded by the very people (Mexicans) they fear & resent the most, historically speaking. Who would be the “minority” then? Stick with the Union, Texas, it’s a far safer bet than Lonestar secession.   

    • LibertarianBiker

       Many Texans of Mexican decent support Texas independence.  Search Juan Seguín.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      No one in the Texas independent movement is bellicose or advocating violence. Please tell Catalonia and Scotland they are absurd. Tell the 140 some countries that have emerged since WW II they are absurd and must return to their oppressors.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/QMDZ3LH5U2B4GAT7J2HS4TCP6E Jim

    Texas secession == TREASON

    period

    • David Roberts

      Look up Treason in the Constitution ignoramus. Also, by your definition, Washington, Jefferson & Franklin were treasonous….

      • http://www.facebook.com/x4livin Gina Loyd

         By that definition, so is Obama.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      No, it is not.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/5EBFE2F5M64QTEGG55KXF242WI .

    Baloney
    Y’all want out because you can’t abide a black president. I am against secession but y’all need to be gone. Mexico will welcome you and good riddance.

    • http://www.facebook.com/kris.harmon.73 Kris Harmon

      The Texas Nationalist Movement has been going since the 1990′s…before we had a black president.  Move on.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      Another race card.

  • SuziVt

    Sore losers and unpatriotic racists. Thank God not all Texans are such tea party fools. Disgusting.

    • David Roberts

      The Texas Secession movement is not aligned with any Tea Party.  Also, you may want to learn to spell.

      • http://www.facebook.com/doc.gordon Doc Gordon

        No spelling errors there. You might consider learning how to read.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      I don’t know where to start. This is not about a single politician. This is not racist. This is not the Tea Party. Please read some facts before you post such garbage.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/QPUXZL6VOKXDOZQB4YIVMVOIMY edward

    Look here we all in Texas loves the USA but we stand together as  a state that wishes not to have our grand kids and great grand kids to pay for all the people who will not work. I’m a indenpendent who thinks we should pay our own way and not leave it up to our kids and there kids to pay our way.
    WHAT EVER HAPPEN TO “ASKS NOT WHAT YOUR COUNTRY CAN DO FOR YOU, BUT WHAT CAN YOUR
     DO FOR YOUR COUNTRY” !?!?!?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_VCZ6YOEX4P7YG2MEYBW43IZC6U Tom

    Infantile bitter losers. I say LET THEM SECEDE already,sedition and treason notwithstanding.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      Look up treason in the dictionary. We are proposing a referendum for the people to vote on peaceful secession.

  • http://www.facebook.com/x4livin Gina Loyd

    Why does anyone who is not in Texas, have any kind of input to this? According to the nay-sayers, Texas is not, in fact, financially stable, we take more from the fed than we give. Well, good, we are a burden, drop us like we are hot. According to some, we will all starve if not leeching off the titts of uncle sam….really…where is the oil. Oh wait.,..that’s why we randomly attack tiny third world countries….we want the oil. THAT is why the US is not going to let Texas succeed without a battle. They know Texas has the oil, and is financially gainful. As far as the welfare leeches that make Texas look like takers, they can move to DC or get a job. If we succeed, they will move or starve. Welfare should never be a career choice. As far as the government structure, we already have it, and it can’t be that hard, look at the idiots in Washington. As far as the taxes..we keep them, we have our own version of the IRS with a 40% flat tax, keep the school taxes and property taxes. We use the state tax(our IRS taxes) for the welfare system that will be locally run by churches, who in turn get to keep their tax free status by doing it. They are allowed to hire and train and educate social workers on the funds also. If it is done from the communities, the people who actually need it will get it. We live around those people, we know who the con artists are. We put them to work for the church(working for the elderly, gardening, etc) for the welfare. We train them as they go for trades. They can do this indefinitely, working a trade learned for the church(local workforce situation) or move into the workforce in another business.  Insurance companies and medicine will be regulated, not the consumer, but healthcare will not be reptitive when it is the consumer that is causing the issues(if you are on O2, have lung issues, you shall not smoke, or you ARE a DNR and healthcare will be pallitive home care only. You can and will be turned away from the ER for BS…hangnail…um..no, that is NOT an emergency…etc) You may obtain better healthcare by taking care of yourself. Proper diet and activity. If you don’t care about your health, don’t expect us to care when it fails you. The highways and post office and all offices will continue for a time with the funds coming from the same money that is staying here as opposed to going to the feds. Over time, we filter out and down the departments we don’t need. We design departments that we do. We do this based on logic and good business sense. We keep religious nuts out of office and put self made millionairs in there….let them CEO the state. If they are not successful, they are out. 2 year terms, may be renewed for good work. If you renew terms, you are entitled to retirement. It increased based on how many terms you manage to get reinstated for. We let logic dictate. We vote. We focus on prosperity and ingenuity. We value hard work and honorable values. For military, we bring home all of our Texas boys in the military who want to come home, and we train using current bases and supplies and guard our own borders. We provide funds to keep our branch of NASA open and we focus on science and medicine and health.

    • kaybee63

      Are you meaning to write succeed, when you mean secede?  I suppose if there weren’t numerous other misspellings, I’d give you the benefit of the doubt that it was a witty play on words, but I’m thinking…..not.

      • http://www.facebook.com/x4livin Gina Loyd

         You have no reply other than to critique the spelling? Well, musta been a pretty damn good post, then.

  • ProfessorCook

    Good luck with the pipeline to your oil fields!

    Good luck with the next Hurricane Ike!

    • David Roberts

      Ha! Texas can do better than FEMA.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      Your’e so sweet! Yeah, that FEMA works like a champ!

  • AaronGregory

    Are these the same Texans who boast of their patriotism and tell people that if they do not love America to leave it?  I would like to see them secede, experience a catastrophe, raise taxes to deal with it, and our media will have something to report as the former state tumbles into anarchy.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      Read a little history, start with the founding documents.

  • adks12020

    I think the fact that this guy doesn’t recognize the fact that all states in this country, including Texas, are highly dependent on the federal government immediately discounts his argument.  Those huge companies in Texas rely on American business; millions of people in country depend on federal subsidies for education; they depend on social security; they depend on medicare; they depend on the income of the military. Texas wouldn’t be the same Texas if it wasn’t part of the union.  It would become a much, much different place. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      The point is Texans don’t want to be dependent on the federal government because we do not agree with the oppression and tryanny they practice. We would have one of the top economies in the world and the producers and innovators would move to Texas.

  • ikonoklast44

    They can go as long as they take Alabama and Mississippi with them.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      Nasty remark.

  • http://www.facebook.com/x4livin Gina Loyd

     Yes, let us secede…please.

  • Scott B

    This is just sour grapes over Obama getting elected int he first place,  then re-elected.  It’s amazing what people will read into the Constitution and selectively ignore, such as the right for Texas to secede , which is wholly imagined. 
    For some reason some Texans seem to think they’re above the rest of the country simply for the fact that their from Texas.
    This is more far-right Republican denial of fact, history and experience, and an independent Texas would soon find out what hard is when they lose Federal money, have to set up a government, infrastructure, et al and pay for it.

    • atticusfinchesq

      This is not sour grapes over him getting elected.  It is disgust at what has happened to our Constitution.

      • Scott B

         Like minorities being able to vote? Women having equal rights?

  • http://www.facebook.com/terrence.lorelei Terrence Lorelei

    Thank you, Tom.  We fully intend to go, if it can eventually be worked out rationally and peaceably.  I sincerely hope that you and your family will be very happy under Socialism.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      “Socialism”?

      Those Texas textbooks must be more detached from reality than I thought.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

        Another snarky uninformed attack. Very low level of discourse at this site by those who love an oppressive government.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

          I can’t stop laughing at you. Seriously, should this happen, every other state’s textbooks will be much more factually-based, and HS students in the USA will come out of it smarter.

          (And the worst part is, it won’t really show up on standardized tests.)

  • David Roberts

    Explain where that right is expressly prohibited ignoramus?

  • atticusfinchesq

    Yes…..the southern borders are in trouble because the federal government fails miserably.  Texas, if needed, could take care the problem.

    And this has nothing to do the color of the president.  It has everything to do with the whittling away of the Constitution.  Those who have no clue…and true racists, make this a race issue when it is not.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/QMDZ3LH5U2B4GAT7J2HS4TCP6E Jim

    imagine.. what would you say if everyone in El Paso and Austin do not want to be part of Texas… what would you do? huh… that is right. you texas would start a war against these people who want to leave Texas, right?

    then.. how would you feel if you declare independence? you bet your butt.. the US will COME AFTER YOU!

    i suggest if you do not want to be part of the United States… leave the country. Go to Mexico.. maybe they love you there. or go to the Middle East. I’m sure the iraqis would welcome you.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      You reveal your ignorance. You are talking about violence- no one in the Texas independence movement is doing so. Anyone who doesn’t want to stay in a free Texas is free to leave. The federal gulag will remain, only no one will be there to pay their bills. All the producers will come to Texas.

  • WeHaveLostOurMinds

    Secessionists fill up your cars. Head South to Mexico.

    Adiós!!!

    • David Roberts

      You’re confused. We don’t want to leave Texas. We want Texas as it’s own country. Got it?

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      Just because you said so!

  • atticusfinchesq

    And those who call it treason must, by definition, then say that the Founding Fathers committed treason in wanting out from under British Rule.  

  • David Roberts

    Incorrect, again. We get back between .84 – .87 cents per dollar sent to Washington.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      That much! I guess Texas subsidizes a lot of free stuff.

  • MarkVII88

    What would happen, should Texas acually secede, to all the U.S. federal benefits Texans currently and are scheduled to receive?  I’m talking about Social Security, Medicare, Veterans benefits, Medicaid funding, FEMA and emergency services etc?  What about those living in Texas who wouldn’t want to forfeit their U.S. citizenship?  How many people would be displaced or choose to leave Texas and what would the ramifications of this be on the Texas economy?

    • http://www.facebook.com/kris.harmon.73 Kris Harmon

      The bigger question is, how many people would COME to Texas to be free of the socialist state that the majority of America voted for in this last election?  There would certainly be a two way door.  An exit for those wanting to leave and an entrance for the hundreds of thousands that would want to enter.

      • MarkVII88

        You have a good point.  I’m sure there would be a two-way movement of individuals.  I think it’s probably worth mentioning though that the luxury of choosing whether to move or not (in either direction) will likely be limited to those with the means to do so.  I don’t think the uneducated and impoverished will be able to either escape from or take advantage of a Texas secession. I would be concerned with how the poor are served in the new country of Texas. A mentality that requires those in poverty to either leave, pull themselves up by their bootstraps, or go to hell may result in an economic problem, a healthcare problem, and certainly a crime problem that the U.S. would have no responsibility to help solve.

    • David Roberts

      American citizens live in countries all over the world and still receive their benefits.  Are you saying the Fed would reneg? 

      • MarkVII88

        You said it yourself in your reply…”American Citizens” receiving benefits despite living in other countries.  If Texas secedes, these people would be Texas citizens, and no longer Americans.  You can’t have it both ways.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      We don’t want any federal benefits – they come at too high a cost. Texas is the number one business-friendly state, would have one of the top economies in the WORLD. Those who like free stuff can go to an oppressive federal gulag. I’m sure dynamic, energietic, freedom lovers would  flock to a free Texas. Do  some research.

      • MarkVII88

        I’m glad you feel so strongly and are willing to express your views passionately.  Perhaps you don’t want or need any federal benefits right now, but ask some senior citizens or veterans or low-income single mothers how they feel.

  • DrewInGeorgia

    Secession worked out so well the last time, didn’t it?

    Yes Tom, Daniel Miller is serious. Good. Tell him to STFU and GTFO (of the Union). Here’s an idea to make sure that Texas stays financially solvent during their new found ‘independence’: Privatized Prisons are big business so Texas should become the New Australia. Let’s throw up a wall and dig a mote then send all that business their way.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      Your foul hate-filled post is revelatory of your soul and sorry intellect.

      • DrewInGeorgia

        Thanks for the compliment. Obviously it’s Evil people like me that are ruining this Country.

  • http://www.facebook.com/x4livin Gina Loyd

     It’s not about race….why do you make it about race?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

    It is not about any one politician – it is about the federal government oppressing the independent states and overstepping the boundaries of the Constitution. Anyone every heard of the Enumerated Powers? Where in the Constitution is the authority to control the amount of water in one’s toilet?

    • AaronGregory

      How are your your Constitutional rights being oppressed?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

        Let me count the ways. They are too numerous to mention. Do some research. Most of the legislation the feds pass is not in the enumerated powers that the Constituion grants to the federal government. All other powers are held by the individual states – see the tenth amendment. The founders wanted a union of stated that controlled most of their business and it has turned into an oppressive central government.

    • nj_v2

      Where in the Constitution is the authority to control pollution? To implement labor laws? Civil rights?

      It’s easy to pull up trivial examples of what you may consider overstepping, but larger issues are never addressed by the strident Libertarian types. Without federal intervention, much of the South would still be segregated.

      • terjeanderson

        “Without federal intervention, much of the South would still be segregated.”

        And that, sadly, is exactly what many of those strident types wish had happened.

  • LibertarianBiker

    Being in union with other states should involve little more than mutual treaties.  It has become more expensive and oppressive than it’s worth.

  • http://www.facebook.com/x4livin Gina Loyd

     Texas was free from Mexico thanks to TEXANS. Then decided to treaty with the US. We weren’t taken from Mexico by the US……and why do you care?

  • http://www.facebook.com/jack.freeheart Jack Freeheart

    The difference between states is so broad when so few controls so many it should be obvious that there is taxation without representation. It is not a matter prejudgement it is a matter of so many red states controlled by so few blue ones. It is one of interest. I do not agree with succession; yet i can see the obvious problem and concern of those not represented.

  • http://www.facebook.com/x4livin Gina Loyd

     Because it is part of the US and has to “wait” and rely on the US, it is having problems at it’s southern borders. Without the US, we can take care of our borders.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

    The petitions at whitehouse.gov  were not started by the Texas Nationalist Movement. TNM has a petition to have a referendum for the people of Texas to vote on secession. The correct process is through one’s state government.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

    read it and weep…. Texas Is America’s Top State for Business 2012
    http://www.cnbc.com/id/47818860/Texas_Is_America_s_Top_State_for_Business_2012

  • nj_v2

    Exactly what form of government would these nutcases secessionists put in place in Lonestaristan? 

    They never say and no one seems to ask.

    • LibertarianBiker

      We advocate implementing a constitutional republic with limited and enumerated functions for the Texas national government.  Hope that helps.

      • nj_v2

        Pretty vague, but at least someone tried.

        What would be the essential points where it would differ from the U.S. Constitution?

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      Wow – name-calling!

      • nj_v2

        Wow, avoided the question!

  • Ray in VT

    I have to wonder how far back some of these gripes about federal over reach go.  The federal government certainly has exercised a great deal of power since Eisenhower in the effort to ensure equal access to education, voting rights and civil rights, and that certainly rubbed a lot of states rights supporters the wrong way back then.

    I’m not going to argue that the current secession talk is about race, but when you hear states rights supporters taking “principled” stands against things like the Voting Rights Act, it does make some wonder what might truly be in the hearts of some of those people.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      A sneaky little attempt to play the race card. Learn some facts about the intent of the Founders and the Constiution.

      • Ray in VT

        Kindly try reading my comment closely.  I am not attempting to “play the race card” or paint secessionists as racists, but historically the state’s rights argument has been used to justify the systematic discrimination and denial of rights to some citizens by some states, so I would encourage you to read some history.  I am also fairly well versed in the intent of the Founders as well as how the expectations of the citizenry has changed over time.

        Jefferson envisioned a nation of yeoman farmers, and that is not practical.  The Bill of Rights was also originally intended only to apply to the Federal government, which is why there some states continued to have established churches well into the 19th century.  Times changes, and so does society.

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

      Why do so many Liberals want to play the race card? Is it because it is the only card they have left to play? Induce Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt – because stealing from an educated wealthy “class” won’t work…

      Yes Poll Taxes were wrong, but how is requiring a Valid STATE-issued ID a poll tax? In most, if not all states, a photo ID can be obtained – not just a driver’s license. And there may be reduced fees for those over a certain age or on certain federal and state aid programs…

      A chart of State ID fees:

      http://dmvanswers.com/questions/419/How-much-do-state-ID-cards-cost

      $35 or often less, once every 5 to 10 years, that’s not even a Happy Meal per year.

  • http://www.facebook.com/terrence.lorelei Terrence Lorelei

    Apparently you are not aware that this movement was started in the early 90′s.  The only thing the recent election contributed was the awakening of Texans to the fact that over half of the nation has now officially endorsed socialism.  That’s okay, and that is the choice of a majority of Americans.  However, some of us, including a great number of Texans, choose to seek a free republic instead of a collectivist state.   

  • http://twitter.com/kikinola kiki

    I’m from Louisiana, and a couple of weeks ago I looked at my state’s secession petition and was not too surprised to see that only a third of signers claimed to live in the state. Another third or so stated no address and the rest were from other states, not just Southern ones. I have a feeling that there’s substantial overlap, and that there’s a core group of people who have put their names on all of the petitions.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001824440904 David Dc

    I wonder how many of the 127,000 signatures are from people in other states wishing that Texas would secede.

    • ttajtt

      taking my job away, if i don’t?

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      Another snarky liberal with poor listneing skills and no knowledge of the facts and history.

      • hennorama

        A bit testy, eh?  FYI – when someone makes a comment that begins with “I wonder…” they may actually BE wondering and NOT making a “snarky” comment.  Perhaps you need thicker skin or more experience in forums of this type.

        Not to put too fine a point on it – your comment is a bit of “the pot calling the kettle black” with A) your assumption that the poster is a liberal, B) your assumption that the poster’s intention was negative, and C) making your own clearly negative comment.

        We call that a “threefer” so you get three lumps of coal for your stocking.  Congrats.

        Perhaps next time you criticize someone as having “poor listneing [sic] skills and no knowledge of the facts…” you may want to first check your reading skills and knowledge of the facts (and your assumptions) prior to firing off a comment.

  • http://www.facebook.com/x4livin Gina Loyd

     This is why the US will not let this happen, this and the fact that we sit on the largest oil reserve in the nation.

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

      California and Alaska probably have larger reserves, but Liberals refuse to allow them to be “exploited”

    • BHA_in_Vermont

       Sit on whatever you like, the oil companies own the oil, not the state nor residents of Texas.

  • http://twitter.com/_sequoia Sequoia M.

    Did the guest just characterize Obama as “a dog returning to his own vomit” for continuing to discuss race (as he rarely does)?  Calling the president a disgusting animal… that answers plenty of questions about this fellow’s views for me.

    • jefe68

      He’s real cute, he also called everyone who voted for President Obama maggots. What an ass.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      You have very poor listening skills – that remark was directed to Wade, the NPR who played the race card and mentioned slavery – how intellectually dishonest!

      • http://twitter.com/_sequoia Sequoia M.

        I apologize- I can’t rewind the radio for what it’s worth. He referred to a journalist who dared mention race in regards to the first black president as a “dog returning to its own vomit.” Whoever is mentioning race, they clearly hit a raw nerve with this fellow- he is keen to avoid discussing it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jack.freeheart Jack Freeheart

    remember the alamo:)

  • http://www.facebook.com/x4livin Gina Loyd

     There is two. Multiple for individual cities. They have a few hundred to a few thousand signatures. Secession has 117000 at last check.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jack.freeheart Jack Freeheart

    The difference between states is so broad when so few controls so many it should be obvious that there is taxation without representation. It is not a matter prejudgement it is a matter of so many red states controlled by so few blue ones. It is one of interest. I do not agree with succession; yet i can see the obvious problem and concern of those not represented.

  • ida simmons

    I’m a native of Virginia, and, after reading “The Big Rich,” I’m in favor of Texas session too.
    Ida Simmons

  • JustEdith

    I’m turning this off. What a joke.  Like I say, put it to referendum if it’s a real issue.  And I ask again, why give the air time to this fringe?  

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      That is what the Texas Nationalist Movment is all about – bringing a referendum to the people.

  • http://www.facebook.com/x4livin Gina Loyd

     Considering I OWN this land, I think not. Why would I just leave land that has been in my family for a couple hundred years? So some no working welfare leech like you can HAVE that too?

  • http://www.facebook.com/jack.freeheart Jack Freeheart

    I voted for Obama, and think he is the best president ever:)

  • http://www.facebook.com/david.j.brooks David J Brooks

    Texans are a bunch of right wing whackos. We don’t deserve to be in your Union. You should kick us out!

    • LibertarianBiker

       Yes!  Expel us. Please

      • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

        Hear, Hear!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1129476945 Regina Cowan

    Bless y’alls hearts,  most of the comments I’ve read have been immature, hateful, racists, and down right ignorant. Yet, we, the people that still believe in our Constitutional rights, are willing to get up off of our butts and do something to keep them so that you may sit there and have “your freedom of speech” are the ones being called all of the above and then some.  The Civil War did not settle the idea of secession, White vs Texas did not settle secession nothing ever will.  We will always have the right because of these : 

    ” ARTICLE 1. BILL OF RIGHTS.

    That the general, great and essential principles of liberty and free government may be recognized and established, we declare:
    Sec. 1. FREEDOM AND SOVEREIGNTY OF STATE. Texas is a free and independent State, subject only to the Constitution of the United States, and the maintenance of our free institutions and the perpetuity of the Union depend upon the preservation of the right of local self-government, unimpaired to all the States.Sec. 2. INHERENT POLITICAL POWER; REPUBLICAN FORM OF GOVERNMENT. All political power is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded on their authority, and instituted for their benefit. The faith of the people of Texas stands pledged to the preservation of a republican form of government, and, subject to this limitation only, they have at all times the inalienable right to alter, reform or abolish their government in such manner as they may think expedient.Declaration of Independence :When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”Now if you don’t think that your Constitutional rights have been taken away then you haven’t been paying attention at all! It didn’t just start with Obama, It started way back before some of us were born or when we were too small to understand what was going on, maybe even before that. But it was the re election of Obama that started opening peoples eyes. Now I ask you to “quote” me a LAW, that says we are being treasonous in wanting our Freedom and Independence? 
    I’m sure that there will be some that will sit here and call me childish names, attack my way of thinking, have negative things to say but guess what? It won’t bother me. It’s your “constitutional right”. Just as it is mine to sit here and smile at you while telling you. bless your little heart. We are peacefully demanding our Independence be out on a referendum where the people of Texas can vote. What’s so wrong about that? Funny thing, supposedly the US is big on other countries gaining their Independence, even HELPING them attain it! But its kinda hypocritical of them when their own people want to leave them and they don’t let them go. Don’t you think.

    • http://www.facebook.com/tiny.savage.12 Tiny Savage

      Way to go Regina they cant handle facts very well they don’t know how to deal with truth especially when they are kissing Obama’s feet.

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

      Regina, unfortunately the Liberals won’t read all the way through this, their attention spans aren’t long enough… bless their hearts ;)

  • OldDoug

    As a liberal New Englander, I would want our region to secede if the US took a permanent hard turn to the right.  Conservatism is incompatible with American values and will not work in today’s world.  As for the conservative South, the rest of us would be better off without them.

    • LibertarianBiker

       I agree.  Centralists and decentralists should not be in a political union together.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      Good luck paying your bills.

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

      Have you READ the Constitution of the United States… or your own State’s Constitution? (Since you didn’t indicate what state you live in, apologies if Commonwealth is the appropriate term).

      How is keeping what you work hard to earn INCOMPATIBLE with American values??? Boston Massacre, Tea Act, Stamp Act, etc, etc… Do any of these ring a bell with you New Englander??? 

      • OldDoug

        The US Constitution was and is a radical document … hardly conservative. Conservatives are mainly interested in protecting their wealth and power, which much too often come from depriving the poor and middle class of what little they have, while raping Mother Earth with no concern for future generations.  Consider rich CEOs who get huge bonuses for robbing their employees of benefits, wages, and rights!  As for hard work, don’t tell me the disadvantaged don’t work hard.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

    I am surprised at the level of discourse in the comments below. Rude, flip people. 
    And here is Wade,throwing out the race card  and slavery. How intellectually dishonest and knee-jerk.
    Wade, read the “Real Lincoln’ and try to open your mind to the facts.

  • LibertarianBiker

    If states do not have a right to secede, the 13 colonies leaving the British empire was an illegal and void act. 

    • David Roberts

      Exactly. 

    • ttajtt

      they had a tea party.  what did you think, they’d toked over it.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      As well as the 140 nations that are new since WW II. Better tell Lithuania, Lativa, and Estonia they are back in the USSR!

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.j.brooks David J Brooks

      I’m sure the Brits felt that way, and so did Santa Anna when we threw of the yoke of his tyranny. Let them think so.

  • JGC

    What currency would Texas adopt? Would they adopt the U.S. dollar or the Mexican peso or even their own pegged to the price of oil? 

    • LibertarianBiker

       Probably an oil based currency

    • Hal Scoggins

      How about gold and silver, like the U.S. is supposed to use?

      • BHA_in_Vermont

         There isn’t enough physical gold and silver in the world to back the U.S. treasury.

    • DrewInGeorgia

      How about The Reichsmark? It could be pegged to the price of stupidity.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      To be decided once we are independent.

      • BHA_in_Vermont

         One might want to have a more thought out plan than “out of the frying pan”.

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

      Considering the International Monetary Fund is now considering Canadian, Australian, and Chinese currency as more favorable than the US Dollar as a Reserve currency, there are better options.

      So, Loonies, Roos, or Yuans, not old dead white guys or Pesos.

      A commodity-backed currency would also make sense, as would specie. Just don’t repeat the mistakes of the original Republic, which issued unbacked Demand Notes and Writs… That’s what ultimately lead to Texas deciding to join the Union – crushing debt (sound familiar?)

  • http://www.facebook.com/x4livin Gina Loyd

     Do you people not think there are people of all colors in Texas? Why do you keep throwing race in there. If that’s all you have………

    • http://www.facebook.com/doc.gordon Doc Gordon

      How did the voting break down this last time?

  • http://www.facebook.com/doc.gordon Doc Gordon

    I would humbly suggest that losing Texas would be not much of a loss at all to the Union. All those military bases, oil subsidies, crop subsidies, Federal disaster aid packages, Federal education and infrastructure grants would be better used in states that don’t feel the need to set themselves apart from their nation.

    • ttajtt

      that would claim ocean gold right too.

    • Hal Scoggins

      (So that’s humble, huh?)

      If you really believe that Texas takes more than it contributes to the union, I’d humbly suggest that you may not know what you’re talking about. Texas is the 14th largest economy in the world, coming in just behind Russia.

      But we all appreciate your vote to let us leave.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      I see you have partaken of the federal Kool-Aid and are comfortable with an oppressive regime controlling every aspect of your life. Enjoy!

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

      Thanks Doc, we’ll just keep out minerals and the Tax dollars we send to D.C. and don’t get back…

      FEMA – ha!
      DoAg – bigger joke
      DoEd – please, they’ve only been around since 1979 and only managed to make college MORE expensive in that time.
      DoT – stupid rules, and Texas refuses a lot of that money anyways.
      DoE – Liberal “Aid” programs are really Tax breaks and subsidies: http://www.forbes.com/sites/energysource/2012/04/25/the-surprising-reason-that-oil-subsidies-persist-even-liberals-love-them/

  • David_from_Lowell

    Would Texans seek to secede if Joe Biden (AKA white man) were president? Old white men see their influence (very) slowly waning, so rather than adapt and compete, they dig in their heals and to maintain an arbitrary (skin color) societal advantage. I see all of these dogwhistle racists being flushed out of the woodwork by a black president as a necessary (though ugly) healing crisis.

    • LibertarianBiker

       I started advocating secession during Bush’s illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003.  I still support it during Obama’s illegal drone bombing of Pakistan in 2012.

    • David Roberts

      Leave it to you libs to make this about race. It’s about the Constitution, dummy and Texans’ rights.

      • TomK_in_Boston

        The Constitution set up a strong Federal government so you are out of luck there, and there was that little test in 1860. I think you have confused the Constitution with the Articles of Confederation/

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      Another uniformed post. The Texas Nationalist Movement has been working towards Texas freedom for 16 years. It is aobut an oppressive government, not a politician.

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.j.brooks David J Brooks

      Most of us wanted to secede when Jr. Bush was president. It isn’t about race and it isn’t about political party. It’s about Texans wanting to keep the rights our fathers fought and died for.

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

      If “Laughing Joe” was President, I would dig a hole and kiss my ass good bye… That unstable clown would press the big red button just because it was there… “Did I do That???”

      It is not about race, it is about competency, corruption, treason, and trust.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3OCZJ5KI5R7NMCXVXRIJYNJVYA Peter

    Time to bring back the House UnAmerican Committee (HUAC) and haul these secessionist in to testify in front of a congressional committee.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1129476945 Regina Cowan

      Seriously Peter? I gladly stand up to “testify” that I’m a Texas Nationalist! 

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      Why on earth it that? We are a union of free and independent states according to our founding documents. Please read the Declaration of Independence.

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

      Yes please! The HUAC can start from the top with Barry Hussein, the poster child for UnAmerican…

      Because issuing Executive Orders to circumvent the Constitution and Bill of Rights is soooo American

  • http://www.facebook.com/david.j.brooks David J Brooks

    You do realize that Vermont has it’s own nationalist movement, right? Does that make Vermonteers a bunch of racist red-necks too?

    • http://www.facebook.com/doc.gordon Doc Gordon

      No, that appellation is reserved for actual racist rednecks.

    • BHA_in_Vermont

       Sadly for your point of view, if you walk down any street in Vermont and ask about this movement, you will find that almost no one will have a clue what you are talking about.

      Kind of like the Libertarian “Free state project”. They chose New Hampshire (lucky “winners” that they were) nine years ago but you might notice there is no “Free State of New Hampshire” run by Libertarians. A few people talk a big game but when it comes down to it, it is all bark, no bite.

    • terjeanderson

      If you knew anything about the “Vermont Republic” movement, you would actually know that they have virtually no popular support in the state, and that the people behind it have many ties to extremist and racist movements across the country.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        But since they’re folks from (I’m guessing) the Northeast Kingdom, and Fox News and such aren’t fluffing them, nobody pays attention to them.

        Contrast to Texas, which our national media can’t quit.

  • jeffmill

    i love peter morrison comments !

  • ChicagoMichael

    1/50th of the national debt is $320 billion. Add to that future charges for services like defense and see if 40% of the population still want to succeed.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

       We in Texas want ALL the tax monies we have paid to SSI and Medicare “insurance” paid back to us….in gold…with interests. :)

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        Good thing nobody retires in Texas with SocSec and Medicare. Because not a state in the union is better at the actual governance part of governance, of doling out the benefits that people have paid for with their tax dollars, than Texas. And not an august body in the (current) country is ready to make this work better than the Texas Lege, “The National Laboratory of Bad Government”.

        Oh, wait.

      • ChicagoMichael

        If you think you can get it from us you can try, Since you are a country now, you can try and force the issue militarily, but I would not count on it. You could try and block trade through your Houston Port, but I suspect we will build up ports in Louisiana and redirect to Miami, New York and LA. You don’t have alot of leverage. You are a big Oil Producer, but now Canada and Alaska is too. Oil is drying up as a resouces and your leverage is shrinking.

      • DrewInGeorgia

        Sounds like Entitlement Whining to me.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      That is all negotiable once Texas becomes independent.

    • BHA_in_Vermont

      It is over $1.3 Trillion. The debt is per capita, not per state. About 8% of the U.S. population lives in Texas.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1360413171 Steve Chandler

        If you are trying to stick Texas with 8% of the US Debt, then it would also be entitled to 8% of all US assets.  Bottom line an Independent Texas would be no more liable for US debt than Australia would be.

  • Ray in VT

    I think that in some ways the Civil War did settle a number of things, contrary to what Mr. Miller said earlier.  I think that it is historically accurate to state that prior to the Civil War it was often stated that “the United States are”, whereas after the war it became “the United States is”.  The mental framework became that of one sovereign nation composed of many states, not one nation composed of many sovereign states.  On the other hand, it could be said to have not settled the issue of the right of secession because that is probably only settled just so long as people are willing to accept that.  Should the citizens of a state choose to take up arms against the government, then they can certainly try.  I don’t see anything wrong with discussing the issue.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      No one has talked about taking up arms. This is an outrageous comment and indicative of the dearth of facts about the Constitution and history.

      • Ray in VT

        No, no one has, and that is commendable, but I don’t think that the secession would be practically possible without force of arms should the federal government seek to prevent it.

        Quite frankly I find much of the lack of great historical understanding to come from the extreme right, where I see many self taught and self appointed experts who’ve largely read the same small circle of works by quacks and fail to understand how circumstances and meanings, but not values, have changed over time.

  • http://twitter.com/tymcis tymcinnis

    We have a Black President ?   When did this happen? And has anyone told his mother ? 

    • David_from_Lowell

      no, but they told the cops

    • ttajtt

      cameras are set up. 

    • ida simmons

      good one!

  • http://www.facebook.com/jack.freeheart Jack Freeheart

    we dont have a democracey we have a republic.

    • Ray in VT

      How would you distinguish the two, aside from the method by which the popular will is represented expressed by the voting body?  One is direct, the other is representative, but they are both based upon the will of the people.

      • http://www.facebook.com/david.j.brooks David J Brooks

        A democracy is based on the rule of the fifty-one percent. A republic is based on the rule of law.

        • Ray in VT

          There is nothing the I have read in the definitions of the term that support your definition.  I certainly hear your opinion expressed from many in the Tea Party, but I don’t think that it is factually based.  There is nothing in theory or practice the leads democracies away from protecting minority rights from the tyranny of the majority.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      The founders said they were giving us a republic if we could keep it. Looks like we lost it.

  • Coastghost

    Frankly, why should white Americans not practice racial politics going forward when the election of 2012 shows clearly that black Americans and hispanic Americans have practiced racial and/or cultural politics unambiguously and unapologetically? Obama himself has practiced racial politics when convenient, ditto for the Democratic Party, which gets added benefit from its advertised but undeserved reputation for humanitarianism and philanthropy. Racial politics is only sound practice for which minority, and according to whom? White Americans are fast becoming a minority, we’re told: should we not embrace our minority status the way non-white minorities have been taught and led to believe over the past forty or fifty years?

    • Expanded_Consciousness

      If voting for your own race is practicing racial politics, then white folk have been practicing racial politics for hundreds of years. Maybe white people can all move to Montana and then succeed. Bye!

    • Ray in VT

      The GOP has been practicing racial politics for over 40 years.  It was called the Southern Strategy, and it’s aim was to try to lure in the disaffected Southern white vote in the wake of the Civil Rights Movement in an attempt to win elections.

  • nj_v2

    “leeching off the titts of uncle sam”
    “let Texas succeed”
    “If we succeed”

    That kind of sums it up.

    • nj_v2

      This was supposed to be a response to an earlier “Gina Loyd” post earlier in which they hadn’t even yet figured out how to spell what they were advocating.

      Discus at work again.

  • ttajtt

    AKA human race, ~ nature, ~ competition, ~ action vs reaction. come on be a wo / man about it.   

  • mhleta

    It sounds to me like these are a bunch of Libertarians who haven’t yet figured out that they’re Libertarians. Gary Johnson, the Libertarian candidate during our recent presidential election, was completely marginalized by the election process. He still ended up with 1 or 2% of the vote. If Texans put their wealth and energy behind electing such a candidate, perhaps they could get what they want without seceding. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      Not with illegals and dead people voting. Of course, you need ID to cash a check or ride on an airplane, just not to vote. Of course this makes me a blatant racist. And I will have to add for the NPR audience that my last sentence is sarcasm.

  • jefe68

    Mr Murry is wrong about Scotland. He has the nerve to use the Scot’s as an example. It’s so far off base it’s not funny.
    First off if Murry had done any reading of history he would have known that Scotland was once an independent nation.
    The very idea of Scottish independence is based on history.
    Anyone who says it is not is an idiot.

    Second, the Scots are not completly sure being an independent nation is the way to go. But it does look as if there is a majority, a majority of people willing to give it a go.

    So Murry is not only wrong about Scotland, he’s also proving his knowledge of the subject is lacking in way that one might come to the conclusion that he’s not so bright.

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.j.brooks David J Brooks

      Apparently you are unaware that Texas was also once an independent nation.

    • http://www.facebook.com/terrence.lorelei Terrence Lorelei

      The analogy is valid; Texas was an independent nation before it joined the United States, just as Scotland was before it was annexed by the British.

      The issue of Texas Independence will eventually be brought up for a vote by the people of Texas, just as the people of Scotland will decide their fate at the ballot box.

       

  • jeffmill

    i love peter morrison ‘s comments !

  • http://www.facebook.com/david.j.brooks David J Brooks

    There is no need to ask or answer. That is spelled out quite clearly in the Texas Constitution: “All political power is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded on their authority, and instituted for their benefit. The faith of the people of Texas stands pledged to the preservation of a republican form of government, and, subject to this limitation only, they have at all times the inalienable right to alter, reform or abolish their government in such manner as they may think expedient.”

    • sickofthechit

       My reading of your Texas Const. hinges on the key passage “…inalienable right to alter, reform or abolish their government in such manner as they may think expedient.”  I call your attention to the phrase “…their government…” that means changing the government of  Texas, it is not talking about changing “our government”.

      • http://www.facebook.com/david.j.brooks David J Brooks

        We may certainly change ‘our’ government from one of fealty to Washington City to one of independence  Y’all can keep ‘your’ government however you want it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/sheila.burns.thedford Sheila Burns- Thedford

    Every state in the Union has the right to protect it’s citizens from overreaching Federal Government.  Those who are angry that Texas wishes to do that are simply ignorant of the way our Constitution was written.  EVERY state should put it’s citizens first, before anything else.  We were never intended to be at the mercy of a federal government.  For those who are spewing ignorance and hatred toward the movement of Texas protecting and representing it’s people first and foremost, it would be to your advantage to educate yourselves on states rights.  If after doing that, you still feel the need to show stupidity and hate, then God be with you anyway.  You certainly need Him.  You will be in the prayers of all Texans that support your right to free speech.  We will not only rise from the ashes of a Union gone under, we will inspire others to make a stand for their own independence through our perseverance, dedication to our homeland, and loyalty to freedom.
    GOD BLESS TEXAS!

    • TomK_in_Boston

      Thank you, Jefferson Davis.

      • DrewInGeorgia

        The South’s Gonna Rise Again!

        lmao

      • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

        Bless your heart…

        PS: Paul Revere was from Boston… look it up some time

    • nj_v2

      News flash! The Civil War ended 147 years ago!

  • mairelena

    The comparison Mr Miller keeps making between Texas and Scotland is inapt. Scotland was conquered by England to become part of what is now called United Kingdom.  Texas was taken over by illegal aliens from the U.S. and then seceded from Mexico, obviously with the support of the power structure in the U.S. 

    Also, if Texas wants to secede, just think how much the state owes the Federal Government for all the Interstate highways, military bases, National Parks, border patrol facilities, land grant colleges and on and on. . . 

    • atticusfinchesq

      Actually, most of the people who moved into Texas moved in legally.  They were not illegal aliens.  As to federal holdings, yes, they would pull out and pay rent.  And Texas would charge a pretty penny for oil and the products the USA receives from Texas.  It would not be a one-way street

      • BHA_in_Vermont

         Already with the export tariffs? Texas, the state, owns no oil.

        • atticusfinchesq

          Actually, it does.  And if its own country, it would

        • atticusfinchesq

          If Texas were it owns country, it absolutely own the oil and decide how it is disbursed.

    • Marvintyson

      Inapt? Texas money paid for those Interstate highways, military bases,etc. Please do some research before you post this drivel, Texas recieves approximately 69 cents from the Federal Government for every dollar we send!
       Do you think Texas had any real choice about IT’S takeover after the war of northern aggression? We were occupied by a foreign military, exactly like Scotland!
      Secondly, no one is asking to be “declared” independent! We simply ask for the right to vote on Independence. Why is everyone so afraid of the All-American principle of self-determination via the ballot box?
      I know most of the listeners have made up their minds and don’t want to be confused by the facts, but Texas AND the remaining States would be better off after Texas becomes Independent,Which we will!

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

      Mairelena, please educate your self before running your mouth…

      Anglos were first invited to settle Tejas by the Spanish, who issued land grants in order to attract famers and ranchers. Mexico continued this practice after the 1823 Revolution.

      http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/mpl01

      NO US Federal troops helped Texas in its war of Independence from the Mexican dictator Antonio López de Santa Anna. Texians fought with their personal weapons, materiel seized or captured from Mexican troops, and some materiel sent in from the US.

      http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/mzr02

      • Ray in VT

        I only scanned the page, but I did not happen to notice any mention of the government of Santa Anna being opposed to slavery and what role that played in arousing the hostility of people like Sam Houston, a slave owner.  Interesting.  That seems to be a bit of sanitized history if there is not a mention of that in there.

    • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

       You have no idea about Texas history.  Quit talking before you make yourself look ridiculous. 

      Oh wait….nevermind.  Too late.

    • http://www.facebook.com/terrence.lorelei Terrence Lorelei

      Texas was an independent nation.  Scotland was an independent nation.

      Texas became a part of the US by choice.  Scotland became part of the British Empire, first, by conquest, then by treaty.

      Texas seceded, then was readmitted after Reconstruction.

      Scotland’s citizens will vote on independence.  It is proposed that Texas’ citizens would also vote on independence.

      Miller is absolutely correct in his comparisons. 

      The only difference is that the UK is sanctioning Scotland’s vote;  I don’t think the US would sanction Texas’  vote.

  • deskcreative

    Secession should have occurred from 50 states when the government was rewritten with no state’s consent and no one’s knowledge into a corporation and the Constitution was archived.

  • Thinkin5

    Is Texas wanting to be their own little country? That would be an interesting experiment. Pull out the U.S. military, and federal entities, and let them fend for themselves. I would imagine that millions would want to move to the United States if they did succeed. Who knows? Maybe Mexico would invade and take their land back!

    • atticusfinchesq

      Seriously?  You should put some thought into what you post.  Yes, perhaps millions would move out of Texas, but millions would also move in.  All 50 states have filed petitions to secede.  

      • Thinkin5

        That would clean out all the disgruntled losers. Texas would no longer be the biggest anything. It would be the smallest country with the most guns and least government. Kind of like Somalia.

        • atticusfinchesq

          Do you put any thought into your posts?  Do some real research and you will see how wrong your comments truly are.

          • http://www.facebook.com/terrence.lorelei Terrence Lorelei

            Atticus,

            We would do better to ignore some of these posts from non-thinking pinheads; if you noticed, most of them are not Texans, nor are they at all engaged in a rational discourse.

            We should instead concentrate our efforts on discussion with those who might disagree, but are willing to engage in reasonable debate.  And, of course, with others in the movement. 

          • atticusfinchesq

            Sadly, I agree.  It is a shame that so many people who are uneducated and/or uninformed, would so freely spout worthless opinions.  I had hoped for an intelligent discussion.  These folks have just provided even more reasons to secede.

      • http://www.facebook.com/doc.gordon Doc Gordon

        Yes — there are a lot of spoiled children who cannot abide losing an election. You wold be welcome to every one of them. Don’t dawdle.

        • atticusfinchesq

          Sigh….nothing to do with losing an election.  Everything to do with losing our country.

        • http://www.facebook.com/terrence.lorelei Terrence Lorelei

          Hey, Doc—

          You might benefit from a little research before you post.  The Texas Independence movement has been around since the early 90′s. (Please do not confuse the silly secession petition to the White House with the Independence discussion). 

          What this particular election told us was that over half of the country wants a collectivist nation, and the results validated the concerns that many Texans have harbored over the past 20 years as to the direction the US has decided to take.

          We are okay with our countrymen who want to remain in the all-encompassing nanny-state.  However, many of us would rather live in a free republic. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

      Texas WAS its own “little” country at one time. 

      Bad financial decisions and the printing of unbacked Fiat currency led to its insolvency and annexation by the US…

      Any of that sound familiar???

      Jeez, with “Think” in your sig, I would expect you do do some actual research…

      • http://www.facebook.com/terrence.lorelei Terrence Lorelei

        Dave,

        Also, at that particular time, there was no viable way to transport Texas beef to the Eastern markets, as well as no oil & natural gas industries.

        The US government agreed to make good all of Texas’ debts, which was a “pot sweetener”.

        Things have changed, and greatly!

    • imaginethis91991

      Wow!  Imagine that!  Made me chuckle.

  • Chuck Penn

    Why do these right wing nuts think they can separate from the union, if they are so unhappy with this country why don’t they move to a new one without breaking up the country.  There is plenty of ultra conservative governments they can join.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

       Actually, there would be viable third fourth and fifth party candidates….George Washington warned against the two party system we have now in his farewell address….I don’t see Dem’s even getting a seat at the table with their current policies here in Texas.

    • LibertarianBiker

      Is that your advice to the 13 colonies that seceded from the British empire in 1776?

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

      Not wing-nuts, and why physically relocate, when we can simply remove the unconstitutional yoke being forced upon us…

      Breaking up the COUNTRY is not the point, breaking up the corrupt Federal government is

  • manganbr

    This strikes me as an amusing proposition, given that demographic changes will likely put Texas in the Democrats control in the next ten to twenty years. You better secede quick! 

  • http://www.facebook.com/david.j.brooks David J Brooks

    The oil will last a lot longer if we keep it in Texas, along with our formerly federal tax dollars. Our labor situation is rapidly improving as we continue to receive an influx of economic refugees from the USSA.

    • BHA_in_Vermont

       Exxon Mobil is incorporated in New Jersey. Royal Dutch Shell in the Netherlands. Irving in New Brunswick. You do have Valero though there is a lot more of Valero outside Texas than inside.

      Point being, it doesn’t matter what state or country the oil is pulled from, it belongs to capitalist companies whose only goal is to maximize profits for its shareholders and executives. The oil will be sold to the highest bidder.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        There’s something odd about the attitude that the oil which just exists in the ground is something which will be there forever, and proves something about the business sense or economic well-thinking of people who live near on top of it.

        • http://www.facebook.com/terrence.lorelei Terrence Lorelei

          Yep, TFFFF —-

          Why don’t you send us a detailed schematic of a windmill farm?  I bet you get an incredible amount of mileage with one of those babies duct-taped to the back of your Yugo.

  • jeffmill

    i love peter morrison’s comments ! texas should be its own nation !

  • http://www.facebook.com/terrence.lorelei Terrence Lorelei

    I could not help but notice that most of the uninformed and negative comments are from the New England area.

    We who are attempting to engage in a rational discourse on both the merits and drawbacks of an independence movement for Texas fully appreciate the fact that a typical NPR audience, particularly from a staunchly socialist region, have a problem relating.

    However, if you have a rational argument to make, please make it.  Childish and smarmy comments add nothing to the discussion.

    Also, in answer to those who question Texas’ ability to defend itself (although this is a moot point; are you suggesting that Mexico is a rogue nation?):  Texas has the largest National Guard division in the country, has a huge Air National Guard, is the only state with its own sanctioned militia – the Texas State Militia – which has its own army, navy, and air force! 

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1408098372 Mari McAvenia

      Ooooh, I’m shaking in my boots. Sorry, John Wayne, but you don’t scare me! Take all those guns & armed forces you’re so proud of & shoot one another for sport if you like, just leave ‘em at the door before you come into MY region of the country.

      • http://www.facebook.com/david.j.brooks David J Brooks

        What makes you think Texas has the slightest interest in invading Yanquistan? We have all we need right here.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1408098372 Mari McAvenia

          Never occurred to me that a minority of overwrought Texans might try to invade New England. Might be kind of cool, though. Generally, we don’t like unwelcome “guests” who tote loaded firearms along with them. We have laws against it, actually. Keep them guns very close & your dumbass cronies even closer. That’s the Texas way of bidness as usual, ain’t it?

      • imaginethis91991

        Smarmy? Childish? Uninformed?  Clearly you are not open to reasonable questions.  You seem to be very intolerant to listening or considering other opinions that do not match your own.  What do you want to do?  Just chuck all opinions out the window as not being thought worthy because they don’t match your own?  Quite a democracy Texas would have if all Texans react as you do to diversity of thoughts.

      • http://www.facebook.com/terrence.lorelei Terrence Lorelei

        If you would have been actually reading the full posts, you would have realized that I only mentioned the TX armed forces in reply to the short-sighted blogger who stated that Texas would immediately be overrun by Mexico because it had no means of defending itself.  As I implied, the notion that Mexico would actually attack the US is childish.  This movement has NOTHING to do with violence or armed rebellion.  I’ve found that those who mention and advocate violence are invariably those who are against a discussion on the feasibility of independence.

        Apparently, for some reason, you have a great chip on your shoulder.  That’s truly a shame.

    • http://www.facebook.com/doc.gordon Doc Gordon

      I love the whole “socialist” meme — and the assumption that New Englanders are that, along with the assumption that they are lazy moochers and all the rest of the exceptionalist BS that self-styled conservatives have been draping themselves in for the last 40 years.

      PLEASE prove your point by foregoing all of the Federal business located in your state (my “socialist” state has lost more service people per capita than any other; we’d be happy to take a few military bases off your hands; kiss the Keystone project goodbye; ditto the oil industry subsidies….) and show us exactly how successful you can be.

      We’ll gladly provide a home for those who find the American Taliban unappealing.

      • http://www.facebook.com/terrence.lorelei Terrence Lorelei

        Apparently you WOULDN’T be willing to take a few military bases; Fort Devens was the very first large active Army post to close under the new BRAC system (it is now a tiny National Guard enclave).  By the by, Ted Kennedy led the charge to close military facilities in the 90′s.

        Any state that would kick out a left-to-moderate Senator (Brown) and replace him with a raving lunatic (Lizzie Warren), and that would keep re-electing the leftist gigolo megabuck enigma John Kerry time after time should be looked at askance.

        The Keystone pipeline WAS killed by B. Hussein Obama.  And, given the OK to drill again in the Gulf, and to open up federal lands now in Texas for additional drilling, would more than offset any lost federal “subsidies”.  Ditto the OK to extract shale gas, and to actually build new refineries, which the EPA has prevented for decades.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

          “Left-to-moderate” Senator Brown?  Raving lunatic Elizabeth Warren.

          Nice to know I don’t have to bother with anything else from your pen.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

          “Left-to-moderate” Senator Brown?  Raving lunatic Elizabeth Warren.

          Nice to know I don’t have to bother with anything else from your pen.

    • BHA_in_Vermont

       As usual, someone who does not understand that socialism is an economic system, not a social dogma posts that everyone who isn’t a Republican is a Socialist.

      • http://www.facebook.com/terrence.lorelei Terrence Lorelei

        You are aware, of course, that the move for TX independence is a party-neutral movement.  Also, you might be shocked to learn that the movement, which started in the early 90′s, gained its greatest impetus during the Bush years, as many liberals embraced the idea of an independent Texas.

        If you have a phobia about a particular political party, please deal with it without injecting it into the discussion.

  • http://www.facebook.com/x4livin Gina Loyd

    117000 signatures on s digital petition that only a small percent of the population actually KNOW about. This is a huge percent of the population THAT IS AWARE OF IT. Put it to a vote, expose the whole population to it, and see what your percent of the actual census is.

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

      and to further your point, 100% of the American population cannot even be bothered to vote in National elections, even ones as decisive as the most recent one.

      120 million voters of 207 million eligible voters is not even a quorum under most rules…

  • mhleta

    And what about border security. We wouldn’t want Texans coming in illegally, now would we? 

    • atticusfinchesq

      funny.  If you were all that hot about illegal aliens, you would have done something about the 11 million……

    • LibertarianBiker

       Texas and the U.S. enjoyed their best relationship when they met on the stage of nations as equals.  We advocate returning to that and hope for a positive relationship with the remaining states.

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.j.brooks David J Brooks

      I cant help but laugh at this. Every day thousands of economic refuges pour over the border into Texas, from the United States! You see, we have something down here called ‘jobs’.

      • BHA_in_Vermont

         It does bring up a point doesn’t it? If Texas secedes, everyone there who is currently a U.S. citizen would be an expat U.S. citizen. Every child born to those people will be a U.S. citizen as will their children, etc. With that comes the right to vote in U.S. elections.

        Somehow that just doesn’t seem right.

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

      why would we want to? besides, you have no problem with Canadians…

  • kaybee63

    Texas does indeed pay somewhat more in taxes than it receives,   according to the Economist, which, since it’s based in London, doesn’t really have a dog in this race.  And it would probably be a moderately successful mid-sized nation.  I’m just pretty sure that there may very well be some really undesirable and unexpected consequences, both for Texas and the US.  There’s a reason for the maxim “Better the devil we know than the devil we don’t know.”

    • Coastghost

      But Texas secession would free up the US for admitting Puerto Rico as the new 50th state.

      • BHA_in_Vermont

         Oh, GOOD POINT! We wouldn’t have to change the flag!!

        Sold! to Coastghost

  • Ellen Dibble

    What is the proposed foreign policy of Texas?  Do they want to be a sanctuary for illegal immigrants?  Are they ready to set up embassies in Washington and everywhere else?  It seems to me that “local government” is not the same as “state government,” and that SCOTUS on the national level and state legislatures on the state level are ALWAYS deciding where the authority resides and/or shifts.  I am trying to think how many hundreds of thousands of Americans were offended by the actions of their own government during the Iraq escapade, both what it did to our national “budget” and to our relations overseas.  Perhaps we should have gathered into say the state of Vermont, with its own flag, its own paupers, its own disaster measures.  (I’m trying to think what would happen when their nuclear plant just upstream on the Connecticut River from Massachusetts, the constant sense of incipient what could be international, um, accident.)  Instead we work to create a better self-concept for the nation as a whole.  No, it’s not easy.

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

      Local is different than state, and almost all states already have the necessary legislative and judicial structure in place to decide these questions.

      And you are right, the preferred result would be to fix the broken Federal government

  • imaginethis91991

    Let’s imagine this.  Texas secedes.  What happens to all those Texans getting aid from the U.S.?  Will Texas plan to pay back what it owes to the U.S. in expenditures on their behalf while Texas was part of the Union?  In regards to the Mexican border problems, shall the U.S. then build a border wall all along the U.S. & Texas border to protect against not only illegal immigrants from  Mexico but also those from the new country of Texas?  It would be interesting to see how Texas would deal with illegal Mexican immigrants without U.S. help.  Will drug cartels have a new stomping ground?  I picture Texans buying lots of guns and a flood of Texans wanting out.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

       Seeing how 9 federal border patrol stations have been shut down….http://articles.cnn.com/2012-07-09/us/us_border-patrol-stations_1_border-patrol-apprehensions-of-illegal-border-interior-stations  and the employed Texans who have paid for SSI/Medicare for decades and not tapped their own money….I would like to see my federal TAX monies that supported these programs that have not benefited me or my family paid back to me in gold…with interest. Now, how does your ramblings work out for you??? The US Constitution is not a suicide pact…you want full socialism …fine…have it…I don’t.

    • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

       We Texians already have a lot of guns.  ;-) 

  • jeffmill

    dumb yankess don’t understand !

  • derekcito

    I’ve often thought, let ‘em go! The United States without Texas and the South would be a progressive country. We’d have the civilized benefits — health care, education and social safety programs — of other advanced nations. There are many good progressives in Texas and the South, but the region, as a whole, represents the backward-looking tendencies that keep the whole country from advancing socially. We in the North aren’t all united around these values, but the region, as a whole, is.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

       Who would pay for your “progress”??? bwwwaaaaaahahahahahaha…..I am sure you could get the Bamaphone Momma to get a job to support your “progress”…. Texas Is America’s Top State for Business 2012
      http://www.cnbc.com/id/47818860/Texas_Is_America_s_Top_State_for_Business_2012  

    • ProfessorCook

      It would be interesting to see how it would play out.

      • http://www.facebook.com/david.j.brooks David J Brooks

        It would play out with the left and right coasts starving under the burden of their own economy. Texans, being the decent folk that we are, would probably set up toll-free hot-lines to collect food and blankets for the poor huddled masses yearring to breath free.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1408098372 Mari McAvenia

      Wait a minute: Don’t lump the South in with Texas!  It makes regressive Texans really mad when they’re called “Southerners”, not to mention the smear on actual Southerners by association.

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

      Progressive = Socialist… how’s that working out for the USSR (oh, my bad), Spain, Greece…

      Why is it so backward to keep what you work hard to earn??? Why do “Progressives” think those less fortunate and less motivated need to be coddled by stealing from those who work hard and are successful?

      Please give directly to ME 90% of your take-home pay, every paycheck, for a year, and then tell me again how “Progressive” is better. Please explain this whole “distribution of wealth”. I’ll continue to sit on my ass watching TV while you work…

  • Expanded_Consciousness

    China wants a balkanized, split-apart, weaker, smaller America.

  • d clark

    I think this is treason, and should be treated as such!

    • atticusfinchesq

      So then, you believe George Washington committed treason when he fought to leave British Union?  Interesting.

      • ProfessorCook

        Of course Washington committed treason!

        • atticusfinchesq

          then why aren’t you demanding that the USA go back to Britain?

      • onceproudamerican

         Since George Washington wasn’t ‘free’ and was a British ‘subject’ his actions were, in fact, treasonous. Since everyone in America was born FREE, their peaceful acts towards democratic self-determination are NOT ‘treasonous’

    • LibertarianBiker

       You must be a British subject since you don’t support state secession.

    • jeffmill

       i think you should move to n korea ! dummy ! viva TEXAS !

    • onceproudamerican

       When folks say such things they put a spotlight on themselves and hold-up the ‘I’m REALLY ignorant’ sign.  Look-up the definition of treason in the Constitution and then come back and apologize like a mature grown-up.

  • http://www.facebook.com/lynne.geary.14 Lynne Geary

    Again, you lead me to thinking of things in a new way.  After hearing that “creature” who just spoke on this program, my opinion has changed from ‘who needs Texas anyway?’ to ‘we cannot let them leave because the rest of the residents of the state need protection from them’. 

    You don’t need to go back to the Civil War to look for guidance on this situation, just look at Nazi Germany.

    Thank you,

    Lynne Geary

    Aiken, SC

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1408098372 Mari McAvenia

      Well said, Lynne.

      • onceproudamerican

         Did she make a point?  I didn’t see anything except for hateful intolerance of diversity.  Help me see what I missed please.

        Or are you saying she projected her hate and intolerance well??

    • atticusfinchesq

      Yes…if you can’t form an intelligent answer, call the guy a “creature”.  Typical.

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.j.brooks David J Brooks

      Godwin’s Law. Thanks for playing.

    • http://www.facebook.com/tiny.savage.12 Tiny Savage

      Lynne who are you going to get to protect you from the communists in Washington? and to d clark why is it treason to want the government of he United States to follow the Constitution? Also if secession is treason what exactly do you call Fast and Furious and the debacle in Benghazi?  

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      Name calling, implied racism (Civil War is liberal-speak for slavery -read some history), and the Nazi card. Lynn, you win for the most ad hominum attacks in one post.

    • http://www.facebook.com/terrence.lorelei Terrence Lorelei

      Lynne,

      Absolutely no one involved in the RATIONAL discussion on the pros and cons of Texas independence is referring to a rebellion or a Civil War.  I truly don’t understand your reference to Nazi Germany, or to another human being as a “creature”.  Do you even know your history regarding the evil Third Reich, and the atrocities the German nation committed under Hitler?

      I can only assume that you are either very young or very uninformed – or possibly your mind is being poisoned by an older mentor.  Whatever the reason, you might want to learn how to contribute to a discourse without name-calling and without completely irrelevant references.

  • terjeanderson

    Mr. Miller keeps bringing up Scotland — yet his movement hasn’t done what the nationalists in places like Scotland, Quebec, Catalonia, etc have done — contested and won elections proving that they have actual popular support.

    Until they do that, their movement is nothing more than a fringe freak show gobbling up media attention without any evidence of actual support.

    • onceproudamerican

       Where do you see the written process for self-determination to compel a certain ‘order of operations’?  Texans can do it any way they wish to…

      • terjeanderson

        Sure, Texans can do it any way they want.

        But they don’t deserve to be taken seriously unless and until the folks advocating secession prove they actually have any degree of popular support.

        The right wing pollster Rasmussen polled the state at the height of tea party frenzy a few years ago, and found that 75% of Texans opposed independence, and only 18% supported it.

        The White House petition site has been signed by folks representing less than 1/3 of 1 percent of the population of Texas (and a great many of those signatures are probably from outside of Texas anyway).

        The secessionists claim to speak for Texas, but there is absolutely no evidence that they do.

  • Scott B

    Rick in Buffalo seems to think that one person of color per thousand makes them truly multiracial, which is does not. He also seems to think we have a Republican Congress, which we do not as the Democrats hold the Senate; and he ignored that the Tea Party is astroturf, not grass roots, as it was co-opted by billionaires like the Koch Brothers looking to maximize profits and keep more of their money while trodding on their workers and the 99% with lower wages, less rights, and less regulation for health and safety.

    • http://www.facebook.com/terrence.lorelei Terrence Lorelei

      Scotty,

      How many Tea Party rallies have you attended?

  • Thinkin5

    The rightwing conservatives want to run your life instead of a democratically elected government. They try to suppress the vote, take away your right to make decisions for your own health, and tell you who to pray to, who you can marry. We have more personal freedom without them in power.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      No, Texans want to run their own lives and seek freedom, not federal control of every aspect of our lives.

    • onceproudamerican

      Where to you come up with that?  It’s the Democrats who want to FORCE you to buy healthcare that some do not want, and they wouldn’t even let folks read the bill they were voting on!!

      Marriage, health, and religion are not part of the federal government’s enumerated powers which, according to the 9th and 10th Amendments mean they are the sole purview of the States and the People.

      The only folks trying to FORCE things on the American People are the liberals…

      • Thinkin5

         You do know that “forcing” people to buy health insurance is an idea born in the Republican think tank as a way to control costs and keep people from using the emergency room for free health care, right? I think of state government as government too. Why does the Teavangelical side of the Republican party want to legislate marriage, right to die, abortion, defining rape, stem cell research, birth control, etc.? They should have the right to decide those issues for themselves. Don’t make others who disagree live by their religious directives. I see little difference in whether the states or the federal govt. take away your rights. Neither should be doing it.

      • http://chrisbachmann.com Chris Bachmann

        Just because a power is not explicitly expressed in the Constitution, does not mean that it is a power that the federal government does not have. Under the Articles of Confederation, that was the case. Powers not expressly permitted are reserved to the states. In the 10th Amendment, the word “expressly” was purposely omitted. Not just in the debate over the 10th amendment (see link), but in that, Madison implies that it was a part of the Constitutional Convention debates. Also implying that that limitation wasn’t a part of the writing of the main part of the Constitution.

        http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendXs6.html

        Your argument is bunk. Go home.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

    Tom – at  last you’re honest, no one on the panel except Daniel Miller takes this seriously. That is a shame. I am so sad that people do not see how the federal governmnet is becoming a tyranny. And nice job cutting off Mr. Miller and telling us the panel is rolling their eyes and swallowing their tongues. Please don’t think you are giving this serious issue a fair hearing with your levity.

    • David Roberts

      250,000 members of The Texas Nationalist movement say otherwise (and growing exponentially).

    • http://www.facebook.com/terrence.lorelei Terrence Lorelei

      Joanne,

      Actually, it’s much better for the movement if those outside of the state, including the pundits, do not take it seriously.  The rest of the country, most particularly those in the northeast, do not understand Texas or Texans, and never will.  The paradigm is completely different, and it is best (as you can tell from some of these posts) to ignore them, unless they have a valid point that can be rationally discussed.

      I have a good friend from PA whose first reaction when he heard about Texas Independence was “Are you going to get a musket and coonskin cap and stand on the roof of the Alamo?”  Typical of Northerners.

      Let them continue to dismiss it, or to name-call and make their smug remarks; all the while our numbers keep growing – almost 300,000 committed, and a myriad more “silent supporters”.  As more folks realize that this is a well-thought-out, rational and peaceful approach, and that we are willing to discuss the cons as well as the pros, it will continue to grow.

      It is much better if the outsiders keep laughing; if they realized how viable the movement is, some of them would mobilize to stop it.  Why, I don’t really know, other than their hatred for - or jealousy of - Texans!

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Carlo-Danese/100002305865604 Carlo Danese

        the reverse is also true – In my experience, Texans often do not understand the northeast, for whatever reason – is it willful ignorance ? Let’s hope not

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

    Where’s Jim Hightower?

  • southernblue

    What would it realistically cost for Texas to pay back all the US owned or paid for assets including roads, schools, and prisons. Could they afford to buy their “Freedom”. Who owes the mineral rights in Texas mostly private companies purchased from the residents maybe. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.j.brooks David J Brooks

      Our taxes paid for those things as much as yours did. You keep the roads in your states, and we’ll keep the roads in ours. An equitable division of the common property.

    • onceproudamerican

       Since Texas was never lawfully annexed with a treaty passed by the Senate, maybe Texas should ask for all their taxes paid back??   Look it up!  Texas was a sovereign nation which means the only way to annex it would be by a treaty.  The Constitution says the the Senate must ratify treaties with foreign nations, and they voted AGAINST said treaty by a large margin.

  • http://www.facebook.com/david.j.brooks David J Brooks

    “Texas received over $40 billion in federal funding in 2010. ” True.. but we paid considerably more than that. So yu keep your $40 and we’ll keep our $50. Sounds like a good deal for Texas.
    “Does an independent Texas use its’ own new currency? And what will prevent inflation to pay off debts?” Of course an independent Texas would have it’s own currency. Since it would be based on gold and silver rather than created by fiat at the Federal Reserve Bank it would hedge itself against inflation, which is really nothing more than the interest on the debt instrument that constitutes the American dollar.

    “To compensate for the loss of US tax dollars, Texas would probably have to raise taxes” Quite the opposite, in fact. Since Texas would no longer be sending its revenue to Washington City, would have an even greater budget surplus than we presently enjoy. We would probably have to lower taxes because we’re taking in too much now as it is.

    “Texas exports could be easily be embargoed and ports blockaded by the US Navy” Embargoes work both ways. Texas can supply all of it’s own energy needs, and all of its own food. If we cannot export our surplus then neither can you import it from us. We’ll see who goes cold and hungry first…

    ” I highly doubt the United States would let Texas secede without a fight” America can’t afford the three wars she has right now. How will you fight another on your own border when a third of your military is comprised of Texans? It would be extremely foolish and short-sided for the USSA to oppose Texian independence. We could be allies and trading partners, or we could be mortal enemies. It’s no question which of those would be better for Texas. Which option do you suppose would be better for Washington City?

    • BHA_in_Vermont

       How do you propose Texas will deal with its $1.34 Trillion share of the National Debt? You don’t get to leave without the baggage.

      And how do you propose Texas buys all that gold and silver that will back their treasury?

      • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

        Why should Texas carry the burden of your failed economic plans… Texians aren’t the ones printing all the worthless paper.

        In fact, I believe the US owes Texas, all things being equal.

        PS: Don’t think for a minute there is actually any realistic amounts of gold or silver in the US Treasury or the Fed, certainly not enough to cover its debts ($20 Trillion worth of gold and silver hasn’t even been mined in the entire history of man). There probably isn’t enough to make Texas whole.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

    I wonder why there were only  about 60 nations after World War and now there are about 200? Did they -gasp- secede from another country? Will the support and encouragement of the US- gasp! Catalonia and Scotland are – gasp- trying to secede today.

    • jefe68

      Amazing. The obnoxious tone you take is duly noted.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

        I find the happy members of the federal gulag who are ignorant of history and the facts about the Texas Independent Movement to be very obnoxious.

      • onceproudamerican

         But not intelligently rebutted….

    • Coastghost

      Indeed: political devolution may well become the norm through the rest of this century. “All politics is local” is becoming a felt phenomenon, but I don’t simply give credit to the internet for fostering it, it has much more to do with a global population that has more than doubled in the past fifty years. Large states (whether they purport to govern large countries or no) are showing their inability to govern at local levels more conspicuously than ever. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/terrence.lorelei Terrence Lorelei

        At last – a rational, non-emotional observation.

        Thank you, Coastghost.

    • Ray in VT

      It certainly didn’t have anything to do with the end of European colonialism.

      • BHA_in_Vermont

         Nah, couldn’t be! ;)

  • http://www.facebook.com/terrence.lorelei Terrence Lorelei

    By your logic, Jimmy, the 48 per cent of Americans who did not vote for Obama (approx. 145 million, if their children are included) should be looking to leave the country.

    Why in the world would you assume that every Texan who would not vote for independence, would want to flee a free and independent Republic of Texas?  Are you saying that they would prefer living under socialism? 

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

      you cannot use that math, since only approximately 120 million of 207 million eligible voters even bothered to vote at all…

      What about the 87 million who apparently don’t give a flip either way?

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

      you cannot use that math, since only approximately 120 million of 207 million eligible voters even bothered to vote at all…

      What about the 87 million who apparently don’t give a flip either way?

      • http://www.facebook.com/terrence.lorelei Terrence Lorelei

        I was pointing out how absurd “Jim’s” notion was that ALL Texans who would vote against independence would leave the state if the majority opted for a Texas Republic. 

        He used numbers in the millions, and I used his same math to emphasize the flaw in his argument.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

    Please learn the definition of treason and then look to Benghazi.

    • jefe68

      Oh please, get a grip.

      • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

        I want to live in jefe68′s world of ambrosia, honey, padded walls, and rose-colored glasses…

        NOT

    • David Roberts

      Amen!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Drago-Z-Kamenov/1013015297 Drago Z Kamenov

    Why would it be treasonous if it is done in accordance with the laws of Texas and the US?

  • http://www.facebook.com/x4livin Gina Loyd

    England thought that the union was fundamentally important too. That didn’t stop the the country from seceding. Invalid argument. 

    • Ellen Dibble

      But colonials didn’t have the vote in that Union Jack, and without representation, the colonies were more like illegal immigrants or slaves (or women and nonlandowners back then, actually) in that they the People were “in” the union but not of the union and by the union.  Something like that.  Had we ourselves voted on the extent to which we were to be taxed the better to expand the British Empire, we’d be having a different conversation today.

  • Thinkin5

    The lady caller sounds like she would like to live in a Theocracy like Iran.

    • nj_v2

      This is one reason we should force Texas to secede. They can take all the people like caller Melissa.

      • Ray in VT

        I just love hearing people talk about “Godless America”.  It makes me glad to live in the least religious state, where I can be a free thinker and not have mega churches blasting me with their message on a daily basis.

        • Ellen Dibble

          Yeah, right, Godless Vermont, where caring for one another has almost old-world charm.  Some people just don’t wear their values on their sleeve, IMHO.

          • BHA_in_Vermont

            He didn’t say Vermont was “Godless” he said it was the least religious state.

            OK, so I know Wikipedia isn’t exactly the most trusted source of information, but according to this:
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_in_the_United_States

            34% of people in Vermont are “Irreligious”. That doesn’t mean none of them believe in a higher power, they just don’t affiliate with an organized religion. My in-laws, for example, are the “Christmas and Easter” type of church goers but say grace at dinner nightly.

          • Ellen Dibble

            The comparative religion/anthropologist in me comes out in discussing religion.  It is designed to bind people together, a ligature, but it evolved when people were not bound into one global entity, interdependent in so many ways.  It’s taking a huge step for our sense of cohesion to incorporate and collaborate together For each other, versus to do so in opposition to some other group, also tied together by values and conviction.  This issue of secession is a bid to keep the divisive aspect of cohesion alive, it seems to me.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            In my house we consider that segment of the 34% “fans of the Idea of God but who just can’t stand ‘His’ self-appointed fan clubs”.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

          I guess you are afraid you wouldn’t be able to resist their holy brainwashing?

          • Ray in VT

            I’m afraid that I wouldn’t be able to keep down my lunch after listening to how much God hates how my family and I live and why we’re going to be visited upon by plagues of locusts and such.

      • LibertarianBiker

         the word you are looking for is expel.

  • adks12020

    Government is supposed to be Godless!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • atticusfinchesq

      says who?  Where?

    • http://www.facebook.com/Cato.Uticensis Matt Dedinas

      read the Declaration of Independence. American government is supposed to be

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      I guess that’s why our fiat currency says “In God We Trust” and there are Prayer Breakfasts for federal officials, and the Supreme Court and other federal buildings have statements about God on their walls?

      • BHA_in_Vermont

         No, our currency says “In god we trust” and the Pledge of Allegiance has the words “under god” because they were added during the McCarthy “red scare” era, to prove that we were NOT godless communists.

        Both should revert to their prior text. Religion has no place in government.

    • onceproudamerican

       So how do you explain this quote from one of the men who helped write our constitution?

      “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. ”  John Adams

  • ryaninvermont

    Lets gives those ignorant racists something to really whine about. Sell the state of Texas to China for the amount of our Federal Debt. Then they can really complain!

    • David Roberts

      So all Texans are racist?  See how ignorant you folks are?

      • Ray in VT

        Not all, but probably more than in some places.  We’re certainly not so ignorant that we need to try to undermine science education with religious garbage like intelligent design.

        • http://www.facebook.com/david.j.brooks David J Brooks

          Why the hell would you want to be in the same country with such rubbish as us? 

          • Ray in VT

            Because I think that some of you are redeemable.  My old, gay great uncle lived in Austin for a long time with his partner, and he didn’t seem to think that it was that bad, and I hear that the music scene is good.  On the other hand, I could deal without the type of sentiment that my brother’s Virginia born milkman expressed to me earlier this year, that being that black people were better off under segregation and that they got taken care of as long as they stayed in their place.

    • LibertarianBiker

       The feds can’t sell something that they don’t own.

  • Paul Chenard

    What makes the Texans think we won’t bomb our way back in and occupy the state? The nation would really punish them. It’s not wise. 

    • LibertarianBiker

      We don’t want to be associated with a government that would be so immoral as to attack us for nothing more than the peaceful act of walking away.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      I am amazed at all the talk about violence from the federalists here.

    • onceproudamerican

       Since the US and the UN have supported every self-determination movement around the globe for the last 50 years, why would you think anything would be different with Texas?

      “Each State, in ratifying
      the Constitution, is considered as a sovereign body, independent of all others,
      and only to be bound by its own voluntary act. In this relation, then, the new
      Constitution will, if established, be a FEDERAL, and not a NATIONAL
      constitution.”
      James Madison, Federalist No. 39, January 1788

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1043384127 Andrew Raymond Keating

    Secessionist Texans should think about the possibility of invasion from Mexico, if they leave the U.S.

    • David Roberts

      Ooooohhhh, we’re really scared now!

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1043384127 Andrew Raymond Keating

        Is that a Jim Bowie quote? or a William Travis sentiment? or maybe a Davy Crockett boast? We could call the invasion Battle of the Alamo II?

    • Expanded_Consciousness

      Then they will be begging on their knees for American aid and troops.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1043384127 Andrew Raymond Keating

        Texans talk tough and then hold hat in hand. I know. I am one, too.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

          Maybe you need to move.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

        Wrong again!

    • LibertarianBiker

      IF that happens, we’ll deal with it.  We did before when we had a much much lower population.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

       The people in Texas are not ruled by fearmongering….we will build the moat and fill it with gators and take care of our own.

    • Willys BW

      U.S. Economy 101… the U.S. would be beholden to protect its trade routes.  Why do you think the U.S. is in the middle east, sweet tea?

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      Don’t worry about us – we’ll be fine!

    • onceproudamerican

       Maybe you haven’t been paying attention, but Texas is ALREADY being invaded by Mexicans and Uncle Sam refuses to do anything about it.  Not only that he forces Texas to educate and medicate those who he illegally allowed into Texas.

      Article 4, Section 4 “The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall
      protect each of them against Invasion;….”

      Uncle Sam refuses to protect the States against invasion, and even SUES those who try to pick-up his slack…

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

      Mexico cannot even control it’s own population… I’d rather have Texas Rangers on the border than CBP agents any day.

  • Expanded_Consciousness

    Caller Melissa, ever hear of the separation of church and state?

    • DrewInGeorgia

      No, histrionics hate history.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        Yep. Just in the way that catatonics hate cats.

        (Cheesy joke, I know.)

  • Bob Hunter

    I think that Wade certainly should have highlighted the economic issues (tariffs favoring manufacturing for one) that were also instrumental in the start of the civil war.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

    When Munisteri runs out of breath can we get a real economist to critique his talking points?

  • Hal Scoggins

    Because we own this one. It’s possible that you don’t advocate private property rights, or maybe you just haven’t really thought this through much, but the people of Texas own the majority of the land here. Why should we have to leave? It’s ours.

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

      It is incredibly obvious how few people on this board have any clue about how Texas was formed, and instead try to impose what they think they know about their state upon the discussion.

      Land in Texas was NEVER under direct control of the Federal Government before or after annexation. All current Federal land claims in Texas are lands purchased or donated by PRIVATE Texans. There is a reason the Federal government controls less than 1% of the land in Texas…

      http://nationalatlas.gov/printable/fedlands.html

  • Thinkin5

    Texas uses cheap immigrant labor to “build” their economy. Then they pat themselves on the back for benefiting!

    • atticusfinchesq

      Yawn.  The WHOLE COUNTRY uses cheap labor….at least, those who can find work in the worst unemployment in years.  There are over 11 million illegals.  Not all are in Texas.  Please put some thought into your posts.

    • Willys BW

      More like immigrant labor comes to Texas to get rich.  You view would suit the current ‘hoodwink and bamboozle’ narrative.

    • onceproudamerican

       How could that happen if the federal government did it’s job and controlled our borders?

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      Texas would like to have thier own citizens working.

  • Hal Scoggins

    Interesting assertion. When was that?

  • MarkVII88

    If Texas secedes, all the rich billionaires like the Koch brothers and companies like Bain Capital etc. could use Texas as the tax shelter for their business dealings instead of truly going offshore.  That will be the new economic driver of a new, free, and independent Texas.  That and the for-profit prisons.

  • fakeDIY

    Why do people so often forget that we are a secular country?

    • onceproudamerican

       “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”  John Adams

      • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

        PS: Religious does NOT equal Christian, BTW. Perhaps Mr. Adams’ quote should be adjusted to read “…moral and spiritual people.”

  • edloveryomtvraps

    Red states and blue states will probably never agree on major issues, so why keep fighting, leaving everyone unhappy?  I’m a leftist, from a blue state, and I welcome the secession movement, because it goes both ways. 

    If a red state like Texas wants to become a theocracy with low taxes and few public services, why should I stand in the way?  If I want universal health care, secularism, and basic science research for my state, why should Alabama get to say no?

    Why not amicably go our separate ways, instead of fighting to maintain a union that no one is or will be happy with?

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      First the race card, now this new charge of forming a theocracy. You are sorely mistaken if you think Texas would sign up for more oppression.

    • DrewInGeorgia

      “Why not amicably go our separate ways, instead of fighting to maintain a union that no one is or will be happy with?”

      Civil War? It wouldn’t stay amicable for long even if it did manage to start that way.

      • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

         Why wouldn’t it stay amicable Drew? 

        • DrewInGeorgia

          Economics. We don’t tolerate other Nations having a negative impact on our Hegemonic Goals, you think it will be any different with The Independent Republic of Texas? I seriously doubt it. Eventually there will be adverse economic impact to one or both parties involved.
          and, drum-roll please…Civil War.
          Don’t get me wrong though, I’m dead serious when I say that if a majority of any State wants to Secede from The Union it is their right. Just don’t expect ‘Happily Ever After’ to be the result.

          • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

             I have to admit, I had to look up the definition of hegemonic.  LOL, learn something new everyday.

            You are probably right about the economics.  Sadly, I don’t think it would stay amicable either, but for a multitude of reasons.  I just happen to believe in the movement enough to be willing to deal with the aftermath of secession, be it peaceful or otherwise. 

  • LibertarianBiker

    A free people should never have any more layers of government around them than is absolutely necessary.  Texas is viable as a sovereign nation and should return to being one.

    • Thinkin5

       Texas would just become a theocracy that would be worse than “big government”.

      • Willys BW

        Religious groups would wind up shooting their own feet first.  That would leave the oil industry to seize control.  And there ain’t no religion in oil.

        • Ellen Dibble

          Someone posted about Texas’s refineries, and I’m thinking if they put a tariff on that, the 49 states would develop refineries of their own, or might become more enlightened and move toward green energy all the faster.  Great idea.

          • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

             Yeah, because the “green energy” companies that the government endorsed did so well….

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

        It is ridiculous to say that Texas would be a theocracy.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dan-Brown/519197994 Dan Brown

    Wouldn’t all this energy be better spent reforming the Federal government? If the problem is an over-reaching Federal government and an abuse of local self-rule, then doesn’t it make more sense, and isn’t it more politically salable among more Americans, to push for political reforms to make Congress more representative, weaken the executive authority, and devolve political power and participation to the locality?

    I’m thinking something along the lines of the political and economic reforms proposed by the Greens or Libertarians. 

    • LibertarianBiker

      The U.S. should be at least two separate nations.  Centralists and decentralists should not be in a political union together.  We would get along much better that way.

    • onceproudamerican

       If we cannot get a budget passed in almost FOUR years, with two of those years where the Democrat party controlled the House, Senate, and Executive branch how reasonable is it to think it is possible to reform the federal government?  There is no need for reform if it obeys the Constitution and only performs it’s 17 LIMITED enumerated powers, and it’s VERY FEW other duties. The problems have arisen because it refuses to confine it’s actions to those delineated in the document which the States ratified to create it…

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      That’s been tried and it’s failed. It’s too late now. The Constitution has been done away with. The two political parties have a stranglehold on the nationn and they are both for massive central government. The republic is lost. We in Texas we like to restore ours.

  • Ion Simbotin

    This is merely a symptom of a more serious problem;  namely, we the people don’t get along.  Some years ago, on the Charlie Rose talk show, I remember this very serious conversation about some big societal issues;  to spell out clearly the troubles stemming from not getting along, Charlie’s guest told a joke, which goes like this:

    “Any family with more than one member is dysfunctional.”

    Very funny;  but oh boy, it does make you wonder.

    We have to work very hard, in general, to agree on how to fix things, etc., precisely because of our natural, basic, tendency to not get along.  But on the other hand, it’s worth considering that maybe we ought to split up in much smaller tribes.  In fact, it’s very surprising that present day societies manage to survive despite the fact that we all diverge in different directions.

    As this election showed — but we already knew — there is a huge amount of resources wasted in the process of trying to converge on some common ground.  There is a horrible inefficiency, especially at the very top layers of the government.  But it isn’t the government that needs to be shrunk, because it ought to be large, proportional to the size of our society.  Instead, it’s the society itself that should get smaller, by splitting up in groups.

    After all, we do sort ourselves, and congregate into neighborhoods that very homogeneous.  A book has been written on the subject;  cannot recall the name of the author.  Anyway, I see this “big sort” as a manifestation (or a solution) of the not getting along conundrum.

  • Ellen Dibble

    Why does Munisteri think the parties would be in an independent Texas?  It sounds as though he thinks it would be the same split, with minorities enfranchised into the Republican party, and maybe three or four other parties.

    • Willys BW

      I think it would be more like the Libertarian Republic of Texas.  We have guns.  People mind their own business.

      • Ellen Dibble

        And Muslims could have their sermons on Friday, and that day off; and Jewish people could have Saturday, and Christians have Sunday, and atheists and others not in those particular groups could work straight through?

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        Eh, when it comes to first-world healthcare for women, Texas has a reputation for minding a lot of people’s business.

    • onceproudamerican

       Current technology eliminates any need for any political parties…  Currently the parties only serve to support oligarchs and plutocrats and do not represent the public.

  • http://twitter.com/tymcis tymcinnis

    Amen, sister !  I’m trying to figure out, why all the anger  and hatred from those outside of Texas, whom are in disagreement of a Texas Secession? Is it, because they enjoy being ‘subjects’ to an Authoritative Government, that they feel we should also relinquish our sovereignty and personal rights, as Natural citizens? … and as for those having beliefs, that Texas is somehow direly dependent on Federal assistance, and that the Republic of Texas could not survive on its own, or be overrun by Mexico, or what would remain of the States of America.. I can only laugh, at their ignorance, and disconnect from reality.  The True question to be asked, is … How would the the rest of the country fare, without the support of Texas ?  

  • Scott B

    Texas attracts business because they’ve deregulated so much that workers have some of the lowest wages in the nation on avg, and less ways for workers to be compensated when wronged by an employer.

    They have very lax environmental regulation, their educational system is ranked in the bottom 10 consistently, and healthcare for women, minorities, and the poor is deplorable. 

    This is great for big biz, bad for the working class and the poor.

    • onceproudamerican

       I wonder where you get your information?  Texas has the SAME EPA regulations as every other state.  The federal government forces Texas to pay for the children of illegal aliens to go to school who do not speak English.  I wonder if that might have anything to do with how they do on tests??  Since Texas is the 15th largest economy on Earth, one must conclude that they attract business with their well-trained workforce who allow firms located there to compete in the world marketplace.  Again, Texas has the same federal regulations that force it to pay for the healthcare of anyone who comes into the emergency room, are you saying that women, poor people, and minorities are not smart enough to get themselves to a hospital?

      • Scott B

         According to the Texas PEER report, it started under Gov Bush, when even at that time Texas was first in ozone emissions, first in toxic chemical releases, in the top 20 for number of counties emitting cancer causing chemicals, first in environmental justice title 6 complaints, and the #1 producer of benzine and vinyl chloride (both carcinogens).
          Texas’ deregulation of their electrical grid has caused further environmental problems.

         Test scores aren’t effected by the education of immigrant.

         
        Texas has a rate almost 2x (25%) as the rest of the country for uninsured people. Many employers in Texas don’t file for insuring their employees. Serious lack of pre-, and post-, natal care for low income mothers.  Texas spend less per person in subsidized health care that 41 other states, and the fewest doctors per capita.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      Then you won’t be moving to a free Texas? I wonder why so many people are moving here?

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

      Explain that to all the Hostess employees now unemployed due to the actions of their Union…

      and for heaven’s sake, why on earth do bakers and grocery store employees need a union anyways???

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        You really should read up on how Hostess’ management took them into bankruptcy, twice, in about a decade, and how their “suits” are getting away with multimillions while the business goes down in flames.

        PS Why is it always the workers whose next raise is cast as “destroying Company X’s balance sheet in 15 years”, while the management can grab everything not nailed down and the business press will applaud “Invisible hand! Creative destruction! Yay!”?

  • David Roberts

    What ever happened to “Freedom-loving” Americans?  If Texas wants it’s Freedom, so be it.

    • onceproudamerican

       Who can argue with being allowed to vote?  What is wrong with self-determination?  The US and the UN have supported such movements for the last 50 years… Sometimes I think some of these folks have ‘Stockholm Syndrome’!

      • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

        so why are you against Texas being allowed self-determination?

    • Ellen Dibble

      As the Revolutionary slogan had it, “Hang together, or we hang apart.”  King George isn’t out there with the noose, but this reminds me of the current European quandary, where Germany and other thriving nations are finding themselves called upon to coordinate with the slackers, so to speak.  What is the value of being able to act together?  Well, for 13 colonies, it was worth it to act together, putting their lives, their sacred honor, all that, on the line.  Since then, others have seen it as advantageous to be part of the union.  Agreed, it’s a tough time, and even Puerto Rico might see it as a mistake to be part of our fiasco.  But there you have it.

  • BHA_in_Vermont

    Obama being re-elected “deeply disappointing” to Texas?

    Pull up your big boy and big girl pants and suck it up because GWB being re-elected was “deeply disappointing” to “the other half” of the population of this country.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

      And yet, the Texas Nationalist Movement has been advocating for a free Texas for sixteen years. Go figure!

      • BHA_in_Vermont

         Hmm, let’s see. Who was President 16 years ago when this “movement” started?

        Saaay, wasn’t that the year Clinton was RE-ELECTED?

        Sounds to me like the “movement” got a kick in the pants for the same reason it was started – Not happy with a 2nd term for a non Republican president.

        And you might want to look at the history of the “movement”. Threatened assassination of government officials, including the President; kidnapping.  Pretty embarrassing I would think.

        • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

           BHA found the google button and hit up Wikipedia.

          He or she then proceeded to pick and choose what to recite to make his/her argument valid. 

          ROTFLMAO!

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1408098372 Mari McAvenia

            BHA is a longtime, regular contributor to the OnPoint forum. I have deep respect for the insight & intelligence of this topical poster from Vermont. Who the heck are you, Marissa, to jump in out of nowhere and put her/him down? Bad manners, young lady.
            I see a small bunch of new commenters here today, all supporting Texas secession & all specifically attacking regular listeners from the New England states, including myself. Yes, the show was a doozy, garnering more comments than any others in recent memory. After spending most of my evening reviewing the melange of responses ( a quiet, snowy night up here) one thing stands out strongly: The both-barrels blazing Texas secessionists are a wee, seething minority adrift in an ocean of common sense. Reminder: Louder is not smarter. insert the acronym of your choice.

          • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

            I’ve made a lot of comments, and had a few intellectual debates with very few people on this site.

            You’re right.  We came to support Daniel, and support secession.  You don’t have to agree with us, and we don’t have to agree with you.  I’m allowed my own opinion and I certainly wouldn’t dare ask “who the hell are you” like I’m running something.  I don’t have to be on this site all day every day to have an opinion, or to voice that opinion, and if you don’t like it, too bad.  I’m not here to make you feel better darlin’. 

            And please, explain to me how  I put BHA down?  All I did was say he/she found the google button and used it to validate his/her argument.  I laughed, because I find it funny…I did the same thing when I discovered TNM.  But I did more research than just one search.  Maybe BHA did too, but that wasn’t obvious from the post. 

            Edit: I did the same thing meaning I googled the secession movement in Texas. Not that I used it to validate any points I have made.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Cato.Uticensis Matt Dedinas

    right and Vermont also talked of secession and still has a vibrant secessionist movement even today

    • Ray in VT

      I wouldn’t call it vibrant.  They’ve been around, and they are heard from now and again, but everyone I know considers them to be a joke.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002099877325 Joanne Kukanza

        I’m sure everyone you know feels that way. You need to get out more.

        • Ray in VT

          Everyone that I know does, as far as I know.  Pretty much no one takes them seriously, and I get out plenty, thank you very much.  I get out, and around, enough to know nonsense and bull when I see, read or hear it.

  • http://www.skeeterbitesreport.com SkeeterVT

    I have no doubt in my mind that the sudden surge in secessionist sentiment in Texas and other states in the wake of President Obama’s re-election is racially motivated.

    If a demographic examination was made of the petition signers to the White House website calling for the secession of Texas and other states — Most of them in the South, I hasten to add — I would not be surprised if the demographers found that nearly all of the signers were white. 

    This election has clearly demonstrated beyond doubt that the era of WASP (white Anglo-Saxon Protestant) domination of our nation’s politics and culture is over, thanks to our changing demographics, and what we’re witnessing is an expression en masse of angst, fear — and, in some cases, outright paranoia — by WASPs. 

    Pat Buchanan — for all intents and purposes — came out of the closet as a white supremacist when giving his reaction to the election in an interview on G. Gordon Liddy’s radio program.

    The movement for Texas to secede from the Ujnion is doomed to fail, if for no other reason that those who favor secession will surely end up getting out-voted.  

    • atticusfinchesq

      If you truly believe it is racially motivated, then you are the worst kind of racist.

    • http://www.facebook.com/Cato.Uticensis Matt Dedinas

      you are completely full of shit. If you think that the only reason people have to oppose Obama is his race, then I dont think they have a measuring stick that can measure the depth of your stupidity.

      • DrJoani

        Wake up, Matt. PeeParty et al…the central reason is race.

    • Ray in VT

      I’m also willing to bet that most of the signers of the petitions are white, but I’m not comfortable assigning a racial motive, although there’s probably a bit (or more) of it in there.

      • DrewInGeorgia

        If someone begins a statement with “Believe me, I’m not a racist…”, well, you get the idea.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

       but giving your sacred vote and voice to a man based on his skin color is NOT racists???? You betray the very work of MLK….”I want to see a world where a man is judged not on the color of his skin but on the content of his character” Well done. I am sure Dr. King is proud of your debasement of his ideals and beliefs.

    • LibertarianBiker

       People like this can look at the moon and see racism.

    • onceproudamerican

       Folks who are racists and bigots see everything in ‘racial’ terms.  Anyone who grew-up in the United States understands that it now has no resemblance to the country we grew-up in.  If I am being towed by a ship that is about to SINK, I am going to run for my ax and cut the line keeping me tied to that ship so I am not drug into the briny deep with it as it sinks.  You can learn about economics at www. mises dot org

    • Willys BW

      “I have no doubt in my mind that the sudden surge in secessionist sentiment in Texas and other states in the wake of President Obama’s re-election is racially motivated.”
      Apparently you haven’t been paying attention.  Texans are raised with the notion of secession.  It’s like drinking iced tea, just a part of our lives.  Put on yer thinkin drawers, there’s more to come.

    • http://www.facebook.com/shane.tilley.906 Shane Tilley

      Stick to what you know – which isn’t much – since you have that knee jerk reaction that secessionists are Southern racists. We are constitutionalists that desire the form of government set up by our founding fathers. You have been drinking the opium of the masses for too long – Liberalism.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

    Part of me wonders if the only reason the Teabaggers aren’t calling for their kind to secede is that they would no longer be able to call themselves Americans. If they leave, they don’t get to take my flag with them.

    • Ray in VT

      They would be the “real Americans” of course.

    • http://www.facebook.com/Cato.Uticensis Matt Dedinas

      the flag that cockbiting assholes like you love to burn?

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        Way to class up the place, bub.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        Seriously, dipshite: Way to fight that stereotype.

    • onceproudamerican

       Actually, everyone who has command of the English language understands that everyone who lives in EITHER of the ‘Americas’ IS an ‘American’. 

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        Yeah, it’s a bit of an either/or thing.

        As a regular Jeopardy! viewer, I have no problem with dictionary definitions.

        But nobody in the USA says “Americans” when speaking to Americans without meaning “people in the USA”. Because we don’t have a proper noun which gets the point across. A term like “UnitedStatesians” doesn’t do.

        Other, particular, language terms are used when there’s a conference of the OAS or the CONCACAF tournament is being played.

        “Germans, Italians, Portugese, Ghanians, Filipinos” all roll off the tongue naturally, which is I guess why those words have found wide usage. Heck, even “Vladivostokians” has a ring to it.

        • http://www.facebook.com/jd.kinman JD Kinman

          When traveling and people as where I’m from, I reply, “Texas.” I haven’t called myself an American for a long time. I did while serving in the military, but the last four election cycles have shown that we are a hopelessly divided nation. Nothing “United” about it.

    • LibertarianBiker

      Don’t worry about that.  We have the Lone Star flag.  We don’t need yours.

  • Jeff Weideman

    Montana Tea Party called for secession from the Union.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/X2W3QRITCKIRQFSBTV3MUKTBM4 How Now

    I live in Tennessee, several of my states heros died defending Texas. I’ve been there. Let them go, we wont be losing much, they couldnt stand on their own then and probably cant do it now. They gave us G.W. Bush, for that we should kick them out.

    • http://www.facebook.com/Cato.Uticensis Matt Dedinas

      W was a far better president than your tin god messiah Obaaaaaama. Texas is the 15th largest economy in the world, and its growing, unlike say, California, which had the 4th largest economy in the world under Conservative governance, but since Liberal takeover has dropped to number 9 and is still in free fall.

    • LibertarianBiker

       Yes, by all means expel us please!

    • Willys BW

      George W Bush was born a yankee.  You can thank Geo HW Bush for that.  Now you can just kick your own butt.

    • http://www.facebook.com/shane.tilley.906 Shane Tilley

      Those Tennessee heroes died supporting the ideals of liberty and freedom. Are those concepts passe’ in todays society? We don’t think so. But if you want a government that controls everything you do, violates your constitutional rights and you are willing to bend over and take it; then no, Texas is not the place for you. 

  • conpk

    Love this spoof letter, especially because it raises some important points: What about giving up passports, social security benefits, funding for highways and schools, closing military bases…. I wonder what proponents of secession have to say about losing these benefits?

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

       We working Texan’s want ALL our monies collected from us via TAXATION for our “investment” in SSI and Medicare that we haven’t tapped….in gold…with interests….we will take care of our own from there….nice try.

    • onceproudamerican

      What do they say about folks who ‘assume’…?  People who live in foreign countries are collecting their social security and other payments they are entitled to. Remember Texas is one of the largest economies on earth and they can afford to pay for whatever roads or schools that they want, Uncle Sam’s rules increase the cost of everything he touches by over 20% and with no IRS that means there is over 300 BILLION staying in Texas! Uncle Sam rents space in other countries for their bases as well, so there is no reason to assume the Republic of Texas and Uncle Sam couldn’t work something our to their mutual benefit.

      • Ellen Dibble

        I want a ticket to the coliseum, after the fiscal cliff standoffs, to the next great standoff:  the terms of divorce.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Cato.Uticensis Matt Dedinas

    weve tried it Dan, its a lost cause

  • SomMom

    I didn’t have time to listen to the whole show, but wondered if anyone discussed the fact that Texas Governor George W Bush was president of the US for 8 years … ?? 

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/X2W3QRITCKIRQFSBTV3MUKTBM4 How Now

    and if somone wants to live in a country ruled by religon move to Iran!

    • http://www.facebook.com/Cato.Uticensis Matt Dedinas

      How Now, if you want a country based in Secularism, move to North Korea! They also got a nice Cult of Personality, which, you being an Obama supporter, should be comfortable with!

      • Ray in VT

        We are a country based in secularism, and we always have been.  Our people are religious, but our government is not, and hopefully it never will be.

        • DrewInGeorgia

          I admire your optimism Ray, I honestly wish I shared it. I’ll believe we will never devolve into a Theocracy when NO religious institution is given ANY incentive or leeway by the Federal Government. Currently there are a myriad of ‘Laws’ and ‘Loopholes’ that solely benefit the self-proclaimed ‘Holy’ that walk among us.

          • imaginethis91991

            Fortunately, the U.S. is a democracy.  You have a voice and a way to change things.  How much energy have you put into fighting those loopholes?  How many representatives have you contacted to fight them?  I find that working within the democracy through the channels we have available to us, does have influence.  It may take time and you may not win all issues, but that is part of democracy.  Vermont did not talk of secession with 8 years of George W. Bush, who gave tax breaks to the wealthiest Americans and allowed the Bin Laden family to fly out of the U.S. before interrogation while banning U.S. citizens the right to fly.     You had your representative in the top set of the U.S., stop griping and work within the system as those who did not vote for George did.

          • DrewInGeorgia

            Democratic Republic.

            Have you ever actually had to work within the System you espouse? I have. And my ‘Representative’ has never truly represented me. I am confused by your response, you seem to think that my ‘Elected Representatives’ having a seat in Government had something to do with my Individual Vote.

          • imaginethis91991

            Actually I have written to my representatives and let them know what I think is important.  I usually get a reply that shows that they are working on the very concerns I have.  I am lucky to live in Vermont.  Sorry that you do not get such good responses in your own state.  

            A while back when relatives were having trouble with the VA I called Harry Reid in Nevada and even though I was not one of his constituents, he was able to help.  No one said democracy would be easy, but I believe that if we strive we can make changes.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/X2W3QRITCKIRQFSBTV3MUKTBM4 How Now

        This country wasnt found as a christian nation, want proof? Whats the first commandment in the 10 commandments? Thou shall have no other gods before me for I am a jealous god. What is the first ammendment to our Constitution (which is the highest law of this country)? The freedom of religon. So if this is a christian nation why does the first thing our founding fathers added to our highest law cancel the first commandment? Because we are not a christian nation. We have a fundamental belief in a higher power, but thats as far as it goes.

        • Jeff Weideman

           Correct. It doesn’t even name a deity other than “creator”. No reference to any religious at all. Christians live in a fantasy America where Jesus came across the Atlantic and founded the United States. Of course that’s fantasy, but they believe it.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            Our FFs were very concerned about the Divine Right of Kings which England had. But to listen to many folk now, it’s almost as if those guys in the 18th century just wanted to replace the wrong religion (C of E) with the proper one.

        • Willys BW

          Tell these guys…

          A painting that features President Obama posed as Jesus Christ
          crucified on  is on display at a community college art gallery in
          Boston.
          The painting by Michael D’Antuono is part of a larger exhibit called “Artists on the Stump – the Road to the White House 2012.” It’s on display at the Bunker Hill Community College Art Gallery until Dec. 15th.

        • Steve__T

           Sorry that’s a twist, you need a history lesson, People were coming to America to escape religious persecution. And if not Christian What?  Definitely Religious, all you have to do is look at a 1 dollar bill. Then wonder why you have to swear on the Holly Bible to take office.

          • Jeff Weideman

             “Sorry that’s a twist, you need a history lesson, People were coming to
            America to escape religious persecution. And if not Christian What? ”

            Christianity does not have a claim to Religious Percussion nor is Christianity EVER spelled out in ANY document pertaining to the founding of our Country. When you or others can find any evidence supporting your claim then show it, otherwise I just write it up to you and others being ignorant.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            One doesn’t have to swear on a Bible to take office.

            And if you want to granulize this, that means that One True Version of the Bible is the only one that counts. So either everyone else isn’t really in office (Congress, etc), or they’re forced to pledge to someone else’s religion.

            Want to try again?

          • Steve__T

             No you don’t have to but it is traditional.

            The Bible

            The tradition of the President taking his oath of office with his hand
            on a Bible was first begun by George Washington during his first
            inauguration. Some Presidents have opened the Bible to a random page
            (like George Washington in 1789 and Abraham Lincoln in 1861) while most
            others have opened the Bible to a specific page because of a meaningful
            verse. Of course, there is always the option to keep the Bible closed
            like Harry Truman did in 1945 and John F. Kennedy in 1961. Some
            Presidents even had two Bibles (with either both opened to the same
            verse or two different verses), while only one President refrained from
            using a Bible at all (Theodore Roosevelt in 1901).

      • Jeff Weideman

         North Korea is not based on Secularism. Where the heck did you get the idea it was?

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        Keep reinforcing that stereotype about many Texans being people who love mixing religion and government, as long as theirs isn’t the “losing” religion.

    • onceproudamerican

       Who said anything about being run by religion?  I’ve never read that anywhere…

    • Ellen Dibble

      A factoid that grabbed me in the last few days has been that Iran has 25% who are entrenched in power because they keep all the profits, and control everything, more like our plutocracy than a religious state.  Religion is more an implement of coordination and control in the interests of concentrating the wealth.
           So.  25% in the top concentration of wealth and power is a lot better than what we have achieved in the United States, but still, it looks bad.

      • Coastghost

        Well, be sure to add this factoid to the mix: Iran has the world’s leading rate of opium use. (Some religions express no interest at all in coordinating power or concentrating wealth.) New Opium War, anyone?

        • Ellen Dibble

          Does that take into account all the oxycodone and so on and so forth that this country uses, legally and illegally, chemical partners of opium?

          • Coastghost

            Apparently so, at least so far as the UN is concerned (oxycodone, as you imply, is synthetic). Almost 3% of Iran’s population over age 15 is addicted to opium, Shi’a Islamic Republic or not.

  • jeffmill

    any illegals trying to get in we will shoot em dead !

  • Emil322

    This is the same state that gave the union George W.
    Bush.  Texans seemed to be quite happy
    with the union when he was screwing-up the country.  I say let Texas go. GOOD RIDDANCE!!!

    • Willys BW

      Bush was born in Connecticut.  You can thank George HW Bush for that.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        But GHWB’s rich Texan friends staked GWB to one “successful” business after another, and bought him that ranch pig farm, and magically got his tiny bit of the Texas Rangers expanded into an exponentially-larger stake.

        Texans of power had quite a role in the self-creation myth of Bush the Younger as a walkin’ talkin’ RealTexan.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1043384127 Andrew Raymond Keating

    Tough talkin’ Texans will be holdin’ hats in hand…

  • Hal Scoggins

    Well, this forum seems to sporatically stop showing replies as such, and showing them as individual posts. That’s what happened here.

    • DrewInGeorgia

      Welcome to The World Of Disqus.

  • Ellen Dibble

    I think the caller — the last one, I believe? — who said that if Texas secedes they take their share of the national debt with them, adding that Texas has had a great deal to do with creating that debt (does he mean George W? or what?), I think that caller nailed it.  Steve Munisteri said of course, just as in a divorce, you divide the spoils and divide the costs/debt — something like that.  But it seems to me, they were planning on cutting and running.  Hit and run.  Something like that.  Down the road, when they have their own fiscal catastrophe, passed by North Dakota and Nebraska, and colliding with maybe Mexico, will they want to come back?  Tail between the legs, like a bad dog?

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      “Divide the spoils and divide the costs” style of divorce.

      If I find myself sharing a bar tab with Munisteri, I’d better keep up with his drinking. He seems like one to insist the bill be split down the middle.

      • Ellen Dibble

        At least his own private Pew-type research arm for creating very impressive fiscal graphics.  We know all about that.  Thumb on the scale, without even knowing you’re doing it.  It’s a matter of faith.

    • Willys BW

      George W was Prez of the U.S.  Your implied debt question would be U.S. debt, not Texas debt.

      • Ellen Dibble

        If Texas left, they take their fair share, right?

        • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

           Do some research Ellen.  Of course Texas would be responsible for their portion of the debt.  Issues such as that would be negotiable between the U.S. and Texas.

          • Ellen Dibble

            I can’t wait to see that negotiation.  I’ll buy a ticket.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

           what is a fair share??? I think the feds have taken more than their fair share from me and mine. You want this kind of government …..fine….pay for it yourself and I will support the kind of governance I want….which is one that doesn’t go to bed while its Ambassador is under siege and about to be brutally murdered in the streets of Benghazi :)

        • http://www.facebook.com/x4livin Gina Loyd

           We get back our social security and medicare that has come out of my check in the 25 years I have been in the work force?

        • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

          Ellen must be a Liberal, because all they seem to be able to say anymore is “fair share” and “racist”…

      • DrJoani

        W was Gov of Texas before the Supremes elected him President

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

       It is the US debt…this is one of the major reasons people want out of the union..the out of control DEBT spending……the US Constitution is not a suicide pact……why would we shoulder your problem???? The government you support is asking you and your family to pay it….it is your problem…not Texas problem :)

      • TomK_in_Boston

        The debt is a scare tactic used by the class warriors on the right to dupe folks with no scam alarms into giving up what the great USA has built up since 1929.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ed.lentz.5 Ed Lentz

    Fiscal issues are being kicked around.  I believe Texas owes nothing to Washington, no more than any other state.  If an independent Texas were not the best ally of Washington, then Washington should borrow even more money from China and hand it over to Texas just as they do to Egypt, China, and almost every hostile country on the planet.  Secondly, Texas better prepare for immigration because if this secession comes to fruition, I am moving to Texas, along with every other person who desires freedom and is willing to work for it.

    • Jeff Weideman

       Start by leaving now. Don’t wait. I am sure wherever you live would be better off without a traitor amongst them.

      • http://www.facebook.com/david.j.brooks David J Brooks

        Quite right. Better get here before we start enforcing our immigration policy.

        • Jeff Weideman

           I’d prefer all slope-brows to move to Texass soon as they can crawl off the couch to the pickup. :)

          • http://www.facebook.com/ed.lentz.5 Ed Lentz

            Typical liberal response: You disagree with me so you are a _____ insert insulting name here.

          • Jeff Weideman

            You’re a traitor, that’s not an insult, that’s a fact.

            BTW you obviously missed the hypocrisy in your post. Do read what you wrote and let me know if you figured it out. :)

          • http://www.facebook.com/david.j.brooks David J Brooks

            That’s an opinion. You would do well to learn and understand the difference.

          • http://www.facebook.com/ed.lentz.5 Ed Lentz

            You should be offended when someone calls you a liberal, I would be.

          • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

            Can you define traitor Jeff?  Just curious….

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

    Nobody’s mentioned this yet: Does the GOP (of the United for now States) want to lose the electoral votes of Texas every quadrennium?

    I say this should be a fight between Texans and the rest of the right wing. We can stage it in a coliseum. I call dibs on the popcorn and beer concession.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

    Nobody’s mentioned this yet: Does the GOP (of the United for now States) want to lose the electoral votes of Texas every quadrennium?

    I say this should be a fight between Texans and the rest of the right wing. We can stage it in a coliseum. I call dibs on the popcorn and beer concession.

    • Emil322

      Great Point.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ed.lentz.5 Ed Lentz

    Washington should pay Texas for their share of social security and medicare which has been paid to and invested by Washington.  What makes Texas liable for debt Obama gave to foreign countries without even a congressionally approved budget?

    • Jeff Weideman

       So all of Texas’s problems started when Obama was elected?

      Gotcha. :)

      • http://www.facebook.com/ed.lentz.5 Ed Lentz

        That is a query, not a statement.  Your response seems ignorant of this so please research and learn the difference.

        • Jeff Weideman

           Sounds like you’re blaming Obama for everything. I am only observing the obvious. :)

          • http://www.facebook.com/cm2dude Connor McCuan

            Obama is just the current figure in a long line of politicians who have taken more than their fair share from Texas. It pretty much consists of every American president since the Mexican-American War.

      • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

        No, everyone’s problems started with unfunded mandates, fiat money, and executive orders as an end-around of the Constitution… we can go back to the Democrats of 1913 and 1933 in particular for the start of this particular slippery slope… old white guys from the East, BTW

  • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

     Who exactly was planning on “cutting and running”? 

    Not Texas.  If you did some research, you would know this. 

  • Brett Rudman

    The secessionist movement along with the obviously heartfelt disappointment felt by conservatives is a reaction caused by divisive rhetorical politics.  We have become so polarized in the nation that we live in our own opinion bubbles.  When we self-deceive in terms of the transcendence of our own opinion, reality comes as a shock to the system; a sort of cosmic-two-by-four if you will.  

    We have long since abandoned the notion of pluralism: that it is at the core of our nation to have differing and competing views.    Here is the heart of the matter!  When our individual religious views shape our politics at the expense of religious tolerance and the protection of the minority opinion, then we corrupt our democratic foundations.  We are not Americans because we agree on all things, nor because we are religiously homogeneous; rather we are Americans because our constitution binds us together in a struggle to form a more perfect union, capable of withstanding differences of opinion and opposing world views.  

    We must live outside of our individual world view bubbles, examine opposing views and at least consider the idea that another’s deeply held views are a viable choice for that individual.  

  • http://www.facebook.com/terrence.lorelei Terrence Lorelei

    Sorry to burst your bubble, Tommy-Boy, but I’m not from Texas.  I’m actually from your neck of the woods.

    Please make your case that: redistribution of  existing wealth is not Socialist; seizure of control of viable corporations without adherence to federal law is not socialist; creation of 30 non-accountable cabinet-like postitions is not socialist; natiionalization of the health care industry (15 per cent of GDP) is not socialist, etc. etc.

    You mentioned textbooks; apparently you should have opened a few and got a grownup to explain their contents to you.  

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Palmetto-Patriot/1248758243 Palmetto Patriot

    The USA is actively replacing Texans with Third World immigrants. If Texans want to remain a majority in their State and want to live under a conservative government (rather than a government dominated by New England-Upper Midwest-West Coast Leftists) they will have to secede. That goes for all the ‘Red States.’ The USA is a failure for us.

  • Brett Rudman

    Freedom means democratic elections, and accepting the outcome like big boys and girls.  You don’t pick up your ball and go home because you don’t agree with the ref’s call.  Or put another way: “America, right or wrong!”  “America, love it or leave it!”  “America, Hell Yeah!”  You can’t scratch these bumper stickers off of your car just because your guy didn’t get elected. . .

    • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

       The secession movement has been going on for much longer than the last month or so.  It’s not a result of “my guy didn’t get elected”.  It’s a result of realizing that the country is divided, and Texas can do better on it’s own.  And THAT realization has been in the works for at least the last 20 years.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Palmetto-Patriot/1248758243 Palmetto Patriot

      No ‘freedom’ does not necessarily mean democratic elections and accepting the outcome. The Founders warned against democracy. In my view democracy is one of the major problems plaguing our society today. It’s a cancer eating away at our freedoms and decency. There are many alternatives to democracy. The Founders were right on this question – democracy is a bad thing.

      • Thinkin5

         Now we’re getting somewhere. “democracy is a bad thing”!!! Better  succeed and get that dictator/theocracy going.

        • onceproudamerican

           Are you really so ignorant that you don’t know the founding fathers thought a democracy to be the WORST kind of government, and created the US to be a republic?

          • Thinkin5

            So, Mr/Ms Ignorant democracy isn’t the “worst kind of government”. Founding fathers did the best they knew how for their era. I wouldn’t give away my right to vote. They obviously didn’t get everything right. We have the right to determine our lives in this time in history.

    • John H.

      You said love it or leave it so why don’t you let us then?

      • Brett Rudman

        As a Soldier myself, I do have to support the CINC, regardless if I do agree with him or not.  

    • John H.

      Patriotism isn’t a blind allegiance to a president who disregards the constitution.

      • Thinkin5

         W.???

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1278733122 James Botti

      Secession is a constitutional right. Never forget the states were states FIRST. We just want a return to normalcy and be removed from this failed experiment.

      And oh hey Brett, your showing of LINCOLN is starting soon..go get your popcorn!

      • Brett Rudman

        Where in the constitution does it ever mention secession?  Please, enlighten me?  Article and/or Amendment please.

  • http://www.facebook.com/terrence.lorelei Terrence Lorelei

    Sorry to burst your world-view bubble, Mari, but the Texas Independence Movement is a huge umbrella that embraces all races.  Unlike the racist United States under the Great Divider, Obama, a Republic of Texas, should it ever come to be, will be a color-blind, free republic.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1408098372 Mari McAvenia

      Well, that would be a totally different sort of Texas than the one my grandmother grew up in. She was a teacher (graduated from Sam Houston Teacher’s College circa 1920) who regaled us with stories of her early childhood including those which involved the family’s black “mammy” & hiding from Pancho Villa’s Mexican raiding parties.

       A multi-cultural, multi-racial Texas has always existed, but not in GOOD way for Blacks, Latinos or – more recently- Asians. It’s still very much a “white man on top” area of this country. Just because there’s lots of heavily armed “might behind the white” doesn’t & won’t make Texas any fairer for those of a different color or racial background after a sucessful secession from the Union.

      • http://www.facebook.com/david.j.brooks David J Brooks

        Yes Mari, Texas in 2012 is quite a bit different than Texas in circa 1920. Amazing what a difference a century can make!

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1408098372 Mari McAvenia

          Listening to the pro-secessionist arguments, today, I think White Texas has changed very little over the past century. The world around them has changed, significantly & irrevocably, however. Clinging to a fictional past &/or an improbable future won’t help anybody deal with the problems we ALL have to face today. Why can’t we all just get along? : )

          • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

            “White Texas”???? 

            Shame on you for making this a racial issue.  Secession has nothing to do with skin color.

          • John H.

            The ignorant and uneducated always make it about race.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1278733122 James Botti

            White Texas comment = you do not have an argument educated enough to make. Go back to sleep!

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1408098372 Mari McAvenia

            Clearly, you are all offensively defensive & very lily white folks, indeed. Why so defensive, Texas? Got a dirty little secret you don’t want aired in public or something? Oh yeah,  you folks still kill more Black Americans -”legally”- than any other state with draconian capital punishment laws on the books. I stand corrected: Shame on RACIST Texans!   

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1191958455 Joel Schmitz

            You are the one that spoke intolerantly of white men Mari.  Too late to back pedal now.

      • John H.

        So 1920 is similar to now how? Your blanket statements of racism are a tool of the feeble minded sheep that ruin this country and don’t know how to have a educated argument.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1408098372 Mari McAvenia

          Pots calling the kettle black, as usual. Can’t you be more creative than the Fox propagandists you try to imitate, at least? “Mama, she called me a racist!” “Well, son, you just call her a racist right back.” Done. Still doesn’t change the facts: Intolerance is ugly in any color.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1191958455 Joel Schmitz

        Really?  Because in my neighborhood, a middle class one, I am a minority.  San Antonio is approximately two thirds hispanic.  It’s one of the largest cities in the US.  
        San Antonio GDP
        The economic output of the San Antonio metropolitan statistical area (MSA) was $80,896 million in 2008.   
        How is this a “white man on top area”?  Are you referring to sexual positions?  Please clairify.

  • Markus6

    Secession will never happen, but it leads to the question of whether this country would be better off as a loose collection of countries. I’m sure the transition would be a disaster as there are all the thorny problems of regulations, sharing the debt, defense, etc. And it would certainly diminish the confidence other countries have in us and therefore decrease their interest in investing in the US, though bonds and other instruments. 

    But what about the long term? Reducing the control of this massive, inefficient federal government is a very attractive option. Of course, there would be greater control by local governments and that would vary more from state to state than today. But given how inept governments have turned out to be, is it better to keep it more local. 

  • 1Brett1

    I disagree with Daniel Miller. While he may have been part of an organization that has maintained a desire for a secessionist’s privilege for the last 16 years, the whole petition signing thing in various Red states has been a reaction to the election. Those petitions were generated just after the election.

    • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

       The TNM definitely got a boost after the election.  No one is arguing that.  But Texians have been discussing and advocating secession for years. 

      The White house petitions are a joke.  The actual secession movement in Texas, by Texans, for Texas is not.

      • jefe68

        Then get a ratification and sign up a majority of the population. Even if you had 10 million people signed up it’s not enough given the population of Texas is 26 million plus.

        I’m all for Texas seceding if that’s the will of the population. It will present a host of problems.
        I use to live in Scotland and I supported there right to having a Scottish nation. Miller was wrong about William Wallace by the way. He’s never met a member of the Pict party.

  • http://www.facebook.com/joe.hagan.391 Joe Hagan

    In my openion, Obama was re-elected by “hopefulls and the media”. For those who want to keep a (good job) ie Union or “Blue Collar”, good luck. People who wear blinders usually cant see to well! In the 60`s and 70~s a person could purchase a car for a reasonable amount of money! Today the cars are built with the same materials, the same “Blue Collar” workers with cars and homes that the wealthy had in the past! Between the Federal Government, the Unions,the greedy bankers and the Politions,America hasen`t a chance of a snowball in hell for a future! Texas might make it on its own if the Federal Government would just let us do our own thing!

    • http://www.facebook.com/x4livin Gina Loyd

       Not to mention a lot of dead voters, who somehow managed to bump Florida up to 144% voter turnout.

      • Thinkin5

         I thought that they arrested those Republican operatives who were throwing out voter registrations?

        • onceproudamerican

           I don’t know of anyone who would defend vote fraud and I for one would like to see a 10 year mandatory sentence for anyone convicted of it.  It is interesting that Obama lost every state that had voter ID laws is it not?

  • http://www.facebook.com/joe.hagan.391 Joe Hagan

    My post is below!

  • http://www.facebook.com/shane.tilley.906 Shane Tilley

    Like those traitors, Jefferson,Franklin,Washington,Adams…?

  • Emil322

    If Texas becomes an independent nation, it will still
    need a government and all of the citizen of Texas will have to abide by the
    rules and regulations of that government. 
    Texans will simply change one federal government for another.  There is nothing special about being born in
    or simply living in Texas that prevents Texans from creating/electing an authoritarian
    government.  Wake-up Texas! You’re living
    in a John Wayne movie.  Texas, I hope you
    leave the union…soon.  YOU WON’T BE
    MISSED!!

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.j.brooks David J Brooks

      News flash! Texas has had it’s own government since 1836.

    • John H.

      A government based in Texas who fully understands texans’ wants and needs. I’ll take that rather than Obama’s sinking ship any day. Their is a reason Texas is doing better than all the other states.

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

      Since Texas will be a single entity, it would NOT be a Federation…

      It would be a Republic, as originally designed.

      Reading, education, and an engaged population prevent authoritarian governments. You may go back to your movie now…

      • jefe68

        Actually the US is a federal republic.
        If Texas was granted the right to secede it would be something kind of similar.

        I say go for it, get 14 million people ratify your petition and then you have something. Right now 150,000 or even a million is a minority.

    • http://www.facebook.com/terrence.lorelei Terrence Lorelei

      Thanks, Emil.  We certainly hope to leave; unfortunately, it won’t be soon, as any great event takes time.

      However, we appreciate your well-wishes.  Would you like to contribute to the cause?

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1191958455 Joel Schmitz

      Texas it seems is not welcome in the union anyway.  What’s stopping Texas from leaving the sinking ship?

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1191958455 Joel Schmitz

      Where do you live Emil?

  • DrJoani

    This is the first time that I felt Tom was uninformed and/or wilfully ignorant. Nor did I appreciate his attempts to put words into the mouths of those who expressed their opinions.
    I was truly surprised by…was her name Melissa? and hope she is not representative of women her age, race, class in Texas WHO HAVE THE MONEY TO COVER ALL THEIR HEALTH  AND WELFARE NEEDS

  • DrJoani

    This is the first time that I felt Tom was uninformed and/or wilfully ignorant. Nor did I appreciate his attempts to put words into the mouths of those who expressed their opinions.
    I was truly surprised by…was her name Melissa? and hope she is not representative of women her age, race, class in Texas WHO HAVE THE MONEY TO COVER ALL THEIR HEALTH  AND WELFARE NEEDS

  • http://www.texasnationalist.com/index.php/the-petition Julie

    Washington has been trashing the constitution for a long time now. Elections and diplomacy has not worked. Calls and pleading to corrupt elected officials have not worked. They are weak, cowardly, greedy, self-serving, corrupt, godless and amoral. It’s time to cut the ties that bind and go our own way, critics be damned.

    • DrewInGeorgia

      We, The People, have been trashing The Constitution for a long time now. Legislation and Deregulation have not worked. We are weak, cowardly, greedy, self-serving, corrupt, and amoral. It’s time to open our eyes and work together, failings be damned.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

        Actually, there is truth in your statement….freedom and liberty require constant vigilance on the part of the people who wish to retain these gifts bought with the blood, sweat and tears who passed it to us. The days of trusting our politicians are done. I do not believe there are those who are willing to compromise on their core beliefs…as I will not compromise on mine….where is there room for compromise between slavery to the state or freedom???

        • Ellen Dibble

          But maybe Texas wants the freedom and liberty to be the task-masters of the least well-connected of their population.  Remind you of anything?

      • http://www.texasnationalist.com/index.php/the-petition Julie

        Speak for yourself. Maybe you have allowed the Constitution to be trashed. Certainly, the majority of Americans have, and with that I agree with you. But your missing the greater point, I believe.

        The blame game can be played all day long without accomplishing a thing. The fact is, doing the same thing over and over and over again, expecting different results is the very definition of insanity. Staying with a government that – for whatever reason and certainly “we the people” have allowed it to go on, because without the people, the government fails to exist in the first place – but staying with and trying to work with a government that has trashed the Constitution and DOES NOT CARE is insanity.

        Furthermore, a people declaring their independence from a tyrannical government is nothing new in this world. Texas is no different. Whoever they may be and wherever they may live, when an oppressed people rise up to the government and say, “NO MORE!” therein lies freedom. It’s how America was formed. It’s how other nations around the world have been formed. It hasn’t happened on American soil since the Revolution, so people get a bit freaked over the concept. But it’s not a new concept.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1191958455 Joel Schmitz

        Speak for yourself.

    • Ellen Dibble

      You don’t think Texas has greedy, godless, corrupt, amoral people among the governing class?  Hah!

      • http://www.texasnationalist.com/index.php/the-petition Julie

        Is that a rhetorical question?

        • Ellen Dibble

          I refer everyone to news and news of Texas from the last couple of decades, anyway.  

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

         It is easier to weed out the godless, corrupt, amoral people in positions of leadership from a local level than at the federal level…

        • Ellen Dibble

          Do you consider state government “local”?  Or does “local” mean the school board, the zoning board, that kind of thing?  Actually, have you tried dealing with dysfunction at that level?  Speaking of easy to do?

          • onceproudamerican

            I understand your point, but federal dollars and ‘one size fits all’ regulations and policies effectively shut-out true local rule.

        • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

          God is specifically excluded from our government by the US Constitution.

          • onceproudamerican

            Not according to those responsible for it! 

            “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” John Adams

  • DrJoani

    Gee Terrance, I feel for you.That huge umbrella of your movement must give you some great protection. Funny that  my friends that the entire attempt is wacky, as is the one in Vwermont where I live

    • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

       If you live in Vermont, why do you care what we do in Texas? 

      • 1Brett1

        Yep, there it is!

    • onceproudamerican

       So… the founders were ‘wacky’?  Interesting perspective; bless your little heart…

  • http://www.facebook.com/imyer.huckleberry.3 ImYer Huckleberry

    A country in a country with it’s own unique government by the people for the people, sounds good to me.

    Lets see how well the Socialist States of AmeriKa fairs without us. Texas now accounts for 8.7 percent of the nation’s economy. We refine 35% of the nations gasoline. We lead the nation in exports. According to a 2011 Economist ranking, Texas’s $1.224 trillion GDP makes it the economic equivalent of Russia—and the fourteenth-largest economy in the world. Employment is growing at 3.1 percent annually; its manufacturing and export figures are trending up; its unemployment rate currently stands at 6.8 percent, and that’s having to add jobs faster than any state due to a 1000 people a day flocking here…still a full point below the national average. Housing starts are up 17.2 percent over the past year. Texas is the only state in the continental U.S. with its own independent power grid. Texas is also a self-sustaining player in agriculture, aeronautics, computers, energy, high-tech research and manufacturing, telecommunications, transportation and just about any other economic category to which you care to attach a dollar value. It’s home to six of the top 50 Fortune 500 companies, including ExxonMobil, ConocoPhilips and AT&T, not to mention Southwest Airlines, American Airlines and Dr Pepper….You’re gonna miss us when we’re gone.

    • http://www.facebook.com/x4livin Gina Loyd

       With you permission, I would like to copy your info here.

    • Ellen Dibble

      I’m thinking that campaign financing would be a whole other ballgame without ExxonMobil, ConocoPhilips, and AT&T, not to mention K Street.  I’m beginning to like the prospect of losing them.

    • Bruce94

      Your portrayal of the Texas miracle sounds like a Chamber of Commerce commercial, well constructed but omitting certain salient points like how Texas has among the highest rates of the following:  illiteracy, H.S. drop-outs, persons without health insurance, teen pregnancy, low-wage (i.e. min. wage) jobs, and families living at or below the poverty level, not to mention one of the largest (and growing) gaps between rich and poor as well as the poorest air quality in the country.  One study ranks Texas 44th in overall children’s health and well-being.

      Texas politicians of the GOP stripe who pander to the secessionists tend to campaign based on the notion that our population still resides in vast empty spaces, that is to say, they campaign as village idiots who have not awakened to the reality of contemporary society where most of the pop. is found in metropolitan areas containing most of the businesses, entrepreneurs, jobs, schools, research facilities, etc. that drive the real economy.  Like Ron Paul or Paul Ryan, these libertarian ideologues are often returned to Congress year after year from gerrymandered, predominantly rural or white districts that don’t resemble anything like America demographically;  they may or may not attempt to govern the same way they campaign depending on their level of hypocrisy.   

      When they try to elevate themselves on the national stage as we witnessed in the past election, these politicians usually (and fortunately for the rest of us) fail because their positions are dictated by an outdated, Right-wing ideology that alienates huge swaths of a national electorate.

      Interestingly, while these elements within the GOP decry Big Government, they are among the first to hold their hands out for federal assistance or intervention when a hurricane, tornado, earthquake or wildfire strikes.  And, of course, they are quick to praise the free market and competition until these laissez-faire principles get in the way of all the Big Oil and Agriculture subsidies and earmarks for their cronies’ benefit.   

      • http://www.facebook.com/imyer.huckleberry.3 ImYer Huckleberry

        Nobody invited you to our state. Stay where you are redistbiute your wealth..IF you have any. Your post is filled with lies…we don’t like liars. Be gone. 

  • John H.

    “When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.”

    Benjamin Franklin

    • DrewInGeorgia

      Right you are. It ended a long time ago, it’s just finally starting to sink in.

  • spirit17of76

    Though I don’t think 100,000 on a petition is significant, if there were a viable movement I’d say “Let ‘em go,” just as I think Vermont should have the right to secede if it wants to.  (Now there is a state with some good policies!)  

    I agree will the female caller from Texas who says our values are very different.  She want a more “Christian” public policy.  I however do NOT want other people’s religion ruling my life.  I go to church once a week or more, but I strongly suspect that her values are not my own and I do not want my liberties taken away because of it – or, for example, a woman’s right to make choices about her own health, life course and body.  Or a woman’s right to receive family planning services in her insurance package.  (Surely family planning is more important than getting Viagra to every man who wants it.)

    Texas values – the highest execution rate in the nation (so much for “right to life”) are certainly NOT my values.  The denial of planning and policies to prevent global warming are causing our nation billions and her private citizens billions more, in order to line the pockets of energy titans while causing harm and financial losses to others.  These are not my values

    Our most recent Texas president was instrumental in sending our nation into the biggest economic tailspin since the Great Depression – for much the same reasons that caused the Great Depression:  Robber Barons run amok.  These are not my values.  The misplaced emphasis on “freedom” – the freedom to pass on the costs of their actions to others while the profits go to themselves – this is not helping us.  We might be better off without them.

    • onceproudamerican

       The economic tailspin you attribute to the ‘Texas’ President, and the current  conversation both would be impossible if the federal government simply obeyed it’s charter, the Constitution.

      Obey it and there is no debt, no deficit, none of the current ‘wars, and the US would be insanely prosperous.

      “The people will be crushed under the burden of taxes, loan after loan will be floated; after having drained the present, the State will devour the future.”    Fredric Bastiat

  • Jeff Weideman

    Honest folks. I could care less if all you traitors want to move to Texass and leave the Union. I am all for it. The sooner we get rid of Texass and the Traitors the better.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Palmetto-Patriot/1248758243 Palmetto Patriot

      Those who don’t want to be part of a government which abuses them and actively replaces them are ‘traitors’ huh? lol That’s some logic!

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1278733122 James Botti

      I would classify the US government of treason. Crushing the peaceful Southern secession in 1860 plus the massive debt and endless wars it has placed upon the people today. Maybe you need to re-learn the definition of a ‘traitor’.

      • jefe68

        Wow, did I just read what I thought I read.
        …Peaceful Southern secession in 1860?

        Talk about hyperbolic with a side of mendacity.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1191958455 Joel Schmitz

      Jeff you seem a  a wee bit bitter with the idea that the people of the 2nd largest state in the union disagree with the socialist path the rest of the nation has chosen.  By the way California is going bankrupt and Texas…not so much. :)

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000117305762 Jeff Weideman

      z

  • 1Brett1

    It’s interesting that we have a lot of Texans here today who don’t normally come to this forum to discuss pertinent political topics day in and day out…it kind of undermines their claims that they are concerned about our country, and that this secessionist approach is not political but purely out of concern for the country. So, you’ve been silent since this show first aired over a decade ago but you just couldn’t hold your tongues any longer? (I know, you probably think I’m a “Yankee.” I’m not.) 

    BTW, there has been a little “damn Yankees” mentality floating around here today…but noooo, this is not related to the Civil War/the White southern supremacy mentality…noooo…

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

       What is your point, Brent?? If the majority of the country wants to sell you and yours as slaves to the state and your happy in your chains…may they rest lightly upon you and yours and lets forget that I ever called you my fellow countryman. What is this group think crap of either calling or insinuating the people in Texas who still believe in self governance and freedom are racists?? Are you really that intellectually vapid???

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1408098372 Mari McAvenia

        Wow, Laurie, barks like a dog, growls like a dog…must be the old Texas bitch coming out. Oh, I hope that’s not construed as a “doggist” statement.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

           Since
          the general civilization of mankind, I believe there are more instances
          of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent
          encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations
          James Madison, Speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention on Control of
          the Military, June 16, 1788 in: History of the Virginia Federal
          Convention of 1788, vol. 1, p. 130 (H.B. Grigsby ed. 1890)

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

             May your chains rest lightly on you and your children and when your children look at you and ask why they have these shackles on them, Mari, tell them it is the result of your choice of slavery over freedom.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

             Bark up that tree, Mari :)>

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1408098372 Mari McAvenia

            Keep on howling at the moon, Laurie : )

          • 1Brett1

            “Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the lord..” Come on, sing it with us, Lucy.

          • jefe68

            Your are very hyperbolic.
            The amount of drama in your comments is duly noted.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1408098372 Mari McAvenia

            You’re nuts Laurie. “May your chains rest lightly” & the cursing of my children. You must be very desperate for attention to resort to such random inflictions of ill-will. Tsk, tsk. Not a good start for your poorly conceived new pseudo-republic now, is it? You’ll catch more files with honey, hon : )

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1191958455 Joel Schmitz

          Sticks and stones Mari.

      • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

         Because when those against secession have nothing left to say, they fall back on the “you just don’t like the president because he’s black” or the “all you white people are racist”.  (Note the hypocrisy)

        It’s the fallback debate point for MOST liberals that I’ve had the “pleasure” of talking to. 

        • Thinkin5

           Looks like most people here would like Texas to succeed. They have a lot to work out before doing it though. I doubt that flat, hot as hell, stormy, drought land will be much of a sacrifice to the greater country. I do know some people who live there who prefer to stay a part of the great United States of America. They don’t feel like victims of the federal government at all.

          • jefe68

            You do mean secede. As in, most people here would like Texas to secede. If they succeed in secession then that’s the desired result.

          • Thinkin5

             You are correct. I shouldn’t try to do two things at once and should read before posting.

        • 1Brett1

          You’ve never been here before either Marissa. How long have you been a secessionist? Lisa’s comments and yours are nothing more than neocon default talking points, too. Are you saying you are no better than I am?

          • 1Brett1

            I’m not against Texas seceding, at all; in fact, I’m for it 100%!

          • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

             ;-)  Good to know.

          • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

             Brett, I don’t know who exactly you are talking to or about.  “Lana”, “Libby” and “Lisa”?  Friends of yours?

            I can’t comment on “Lisa’s” points, because I haven’t read them.  Yes, today is my first day here.  I haven’t decided if it will be my last or not.  There have been a few intellectual posts…but very few.

            Neocon….nope.  That’s not me at all.  You must have me confused with someone else.

            And no, I never said I was better than you.  I don’t even know you.

            As for how long I’ve been a secessionist….since before GB was in office.  What are your views?

          • 1Brett1

            You started out by saying non-secessionists and “liberals” just spout off talking points, which was your passive-aggressive criticism of my comment (passive-aggressive because you condemned it to someone else). I was asking if yo thought you were NO better than me, NOT if you are better than then me…

            I’m a liberal. If you aren’t a neocon, what are you then? Why have you been a secessionist for over a decade?

      • 1Brett1

        I had two distinct points, Lana. But, given your histrionic, alarmist ideas painting some extreme image of being enslaved or having your freedoms taken away, ‘twould be difficult to have a real discussion with you. 

        My second point is that I live in the south; I know first-hand that the “south’s gonna rise again!” And, “I’m White, Christian, and Southern, and I want to keep it that way!” Are two mentalities that do actually exist. If that shoe doesn’t fit you, you don’t have to wear it.

        Libby, my first point was this: you have never been here before. What brings you here today if you care so much about our country’s issues? (By the way, I noticed your four likes are by others who also have never been here before.) Was it an arbitrary or a random decision to pick today to voice your concerns on here about our country?

    • http://www.facebook.com/Cato.Uticensis Matt Dedinas

      dude, nobody listens to NPR. were just here to support daniel, then when thats done, you can go on collecting cobwebs without us

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Klaatu-Fabrice-Aquinas/100000870589756 Klaatu Fabrice Aquinas

    I think everyone here needs to read this article by Walter Williams. Pay special attention to the quotes from Unionist politicians and Yankee newspapers from 1860 onward. Particularly the justifications they make based on republican liberty and the Spirit of 1776. The North was not as monolithic in  thought as most would presume:

    http://www.creators.com/conservative/walter-williams/parting-company-12-11-28.html

    There is no doubt that secession of any state from the Union is both Constitutional and moral. That the right of secession is the bedrock principle of republican liberty and self-determination of free individuals under the conscience of their natural given human being. Anyone (or any thing) think themselves of a power  or authority to deny that right, is a tyrant, or a party to tyrants. The Declaration of Independence has something to say about tyrants. So did Jefferson et al.

    For me, I am a sixth generation Texan on my mom’s side, going back to 1836. (the founding of the Republic). To those who say Texans, who decide in concert, via legal means to secede from the Union, cannot, I then say “Come and take it!” Understand, this person is also a Marine veteran.

    • http://www.texasnationalist.com/index.php/the-petition Julie

      Well said.

      Declaring our independence from England was how this country was formed in the first place! People seem to forget that – or they skim over it, preferring instead to cite, for example, a pledge of allegiance to a flag, as if that is proof that we are “undivided.” I’ve got news for those folks. Just because you continue to repeat the same lie over and over (Communism 101), does not make it true. We already are a divided nation. Secession is just a natural result of that division.

      • http://www.facebook.com/Cato.Uticensis Matt Dedinas

        yes, Julie, I think Liberals would love to submit to some European country today

        • http://www.texasnationalist.com/index.php/the-petition Julie

          I KNOW you are right: they are already submitting to the UN!

  • http://twitter.com/BocaRatso Boca Ratso

    Door’s open, boys…

    • http://www.facebook.com/southern.swamp.fox Francis Marion

      Thank you for your support.  Please let your elected officials know how you feel too.

  • http://twitter.com/BocaRatso Boca Ratso

    After LBJ, GW Bush and Perry, I’m kinda surprised the rest of the country doesn’t wanna secede from TX!

    • atticusfinchesq

      Do it then

    • http://www.facebook.com/southern.swamp.fox Francis Marion

      godspeed

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

       Go ahead and pull that trigger, Sparky. :)

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1191958455 Joel Schmitz

      Don’t let the door hit you in the arse on your way out.

    • http://www.facebook.com/Cato.Uticensis Matt Dedinas

      yeah piss off

  • BobWilkins

    Most of the secession movement states take more from the Federal government than they give in taxes — so let ‘em go, we’ll balance our budget faster!

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1278733122 James Botti

      and your facts are where? Texas has a jobless rate of 5% compered to 8% of the empire. Their economy is booming and holding the US economy on its shoulders. Next time you speak try not to confuse California with an honourable republic like Texas!

      • BobWilkins

        The following states currently have the most signatures on their secession petitions: Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, North Carolina, Tennessee, Texas.  All but Texas take more from the federal government than they pay in taxes.  You’re correct about Texas.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1299750782 Hollis Jæmes Brown IV

       Only in the heavily blue areas in those states. Like Atlanta and memphis. The rest of the red would end that if they seceded.

    • http://www.facebook.com/southern.swamp.fox Francis Marion

      Bob Wilkins,

      Thank you for your post–this is not the case for Texas.

      http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/08/americas-fiscal-union

      Sincerely,
      Francis Marion

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.iwanicki David Iwanicki

      That’s actually backwards, Bob.

      Lib-math at work again, I see…

    • http://www.facebook.com/Cato.Uticensis Matt Dedinas

      Bob facts without context are as bad as falsehood. Most of those little red states have atomic weapons and expensive air force assets like B-1 and B-2 bombers in them. OF COURSE the budget for the US Air Force presence in South Dakota is going to exceed the budget for the entire state of SoDak.

    • onceproudamerican

       http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/11/states-federal-taxes-spending-charts-maps

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1278733122 James Botti

    People fail to realise that the US imperial government has failed the American people. For over 200 years it has become a global outreach program forcing its will on other sovreign nations and much of it by the use of firearms.

    Their irresponsible actions have led many to continue to wish for states to return to their original sovreign form and be independent.

    The US government is to blame here NOT the people. The people are the victims and the government is the aggressor.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1408098372 Mari McAvenia

      The government IS people, my friend. People like you & me, just greedier

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Spencer-Doidge/1223386779 Spencer Doidge

    Signing a secession petition is tantamount to throwing a tantrum and about as useful. It certainly involves no thought of myriad unintended consequences.

    Does an out of state bank own your mortgage now, and if they do, would they accept your seceded state’s currency as payment, or would they simply seize all your assets? You assume that you would use dollars? Who would print them for you? Can products made in your seceded state be sold or even shipped anywhere else? How friendly do you think anyone outside of your state would be to your interests?

    Take Texas, please. Within weeks Texans would be groveling to any government, probably in Latin America, who would throw them a dime. What would the sugar daddy demand in return for that dime? Free oil? Your shipping will almost certainly be blockaded, so what kind of deals will you be making with Mexico to get goods in and out of your glorious little country?

    It wouldn’t be long til Texas came back on its knees begging to be taken in as a territory of the USA. And good luck to anyone who tries to emigrate to the USA–a whole new look of illegal immigration, I expect.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1191958455 Joel Schmitz

      Sorry Spencer.  The federal government takes more money from Texas than it gives back.  Also, a massive oil boom is getting underway as well.  Which will be sold to whomever will buy.  Conservative estimates are 30 years of oil from this discovery.  
      Texas also has massive solar and wind farms.  A diverse geography and the nicest people. 
      Texas has it’s own local banks and credit unions.  Many international banks do business in the US.  Currency exchanges are common around the nation.
      There is a sense of freedom here that I haven’t experienced in other parts of the country.  I’ve lived in the midwest, northwest, the south and mid-atlantic.  So far Texas is my favorite. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Spencer-Doidge/1223386779 Spencer Doidge

        You are taking a lot for granted. The devil is in the details. For example, banks need credit every day, even Texas banks. Do Texas banks need this kind of disruption? I suggest that you ask a few bankers about that.

        There are lots of examples in history of independence seekers: the Caucasus nations, America itself in 1776 and the South in 1860, Tibet, Ireland, the Kurdish lands to name a few off the top of my head. None of them have had an easy time of it, and these are not necessarily poor countries.

        Texas isn’t so big and powerful that it would have an easy time seceding. That’s why only a tiny part of its population would ever be silly enough to entertain the thought of secession over matters so trivial as ideology.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

           “trivial as ideology” ??? more blood has been spilled over ideology in history than has been spilled for gold….wow….who are you that your ideology is is trivial????

        • onceproudamerican

           Like the less than 9% of those in the colonies who seceded from England?

      • onceproudamerican
    • http://www.facebook.com/Cato.Uticensis Matt Dedinas

      Spencer, Texas is the 15th largest economy in the world and growing. Why would it beg to have a bunch of Liberal parasites like you back to sucking on its marrow?

  • http://twitter.com/magsiniowa Millitant Mom

    By all means Mr. Miller, take your teabagging, racist, sexist bunch of hypocritical white men and LEAVE! You in Texas and the rest of the south add absolutely NOTHING to the rest of this great USA! All you do is suck off the federal government and give nothing back but hatred and racism. Your supposed “great state” and the rest of the south are last in everything that matters, like education, and first in the most socially destructive measures - the highest teen pregnancy rates, the highest rate of STDs, highest abortion rates, (thanks to your obsession with abstinence education and ignorance and repression of women’s rights) not to mention the highest poverty and illiteracy rates! I say, go ahead and prove you can survive without us supporting you – we in the reality and science based NORTH will be laughing at the disaster that would become you when you try to make it in a global economy. However we will take all your scientists and rational people of any race, creed or religion who want to live and contribute in a productive way to our notion of progressive society – since you probably don’t want them around in your new Country of Ignorance.
     
    Of course this fantasy of secessionists (and mine!) will never come true despite how reasonably they try to make their request sound. Obviously there’s no comparison between the historical context of oppression in Scotland and what nutjobs like Miller would like you to see they are suffering by being apart of the USA. The real reason people like Miller and ilk want to leave is because of the landslide re-election of our GREAT BLACK president – yes he won fair and square – if you don’t like it, then you are free to leave this country! And isn’t that what it really comes down to – re-election of President Obama? When there was that last infamous Texan who was president, amidst the disaster that he heaped on the rest of us innocents which occured in the form of 2 wars, historical and unprecedented economic downturns, tax breaks for his big biz buddies in oil and companies like Halliburton, and warnings of terrorist attacks that he ignored, which resulted in thousands and thousands dea, the silence of these teabaggers was deafening.

    Shame on you On Point for even giving these whackos a forum to spew this worthless garbage!!  

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1299750782 Hollis Jæmes Brown IV

      That is quite possibly the most bigoted thing I’ve ever heard anyone say.

      • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

         I agree Hollis.  That’s about all you can say to something so hateful and biased.

      • sickofthechit

         What exactly was bigoted about it?  Looked like mostly facts to me.

        • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

           You need to look up the definition of fact.  And the definition of bigot. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

      Since the general civilization of mankind, I believe there are more instances
      of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent
      encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations
      James Madison, Speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention on Control of
      the Military, June 16, 1788 in: History of the Virginia Federal
      Convention of 1788, vol. 1, p. 130 (H.B. Grigsby ed. 1890)

      • 1Brett1

        Linda, did you know that Madison drafted the Bill of Rights to appease the states so that the Constitution could be ratified? The votes from southern states just weren’t there without some appeasement; they just didn’t want to agree to the Constitution.

        What freedoms have you personally, specifically  lost since Obama has been on office? What specific “encroachments” have you suffered?

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

           Freedom of religion by being instructed that under the obamadon’tcare TAX plan I have to pay for abortions and makes me morally responsible for with holding life saving medication and or treatments per the order of the IPAB….Freedom of Speech…every time I am told that my beliefs on freedom and self governance are not worthy topics of discussion or I am ridiculed for holding onto the tenants of freedom and liberty that is an abridgement of my freedoms. My freedom to choose my own light bulbs…(thanks GWB) the freedom to use my land in the way I deem proper for my own prosperity. I could go on about the 2,000 page health care thing but it would be lost on you and redundant.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            You really have a comprehension problem with the words “pay” and “abortions”.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1191958455 Joel Schmitz

      Have you ever been to Texas milli?

    • http://www.facebook.com/southern.swamp.fox Francis Marion

      Shame on WHO for spewing worthless garbage?

    • http://www.facebook.com/Cato.Uticensis Matt Dedinas

      it’s “Militant”, ass. And the South adds more than the North these days. That wasnt always so, like in Detroit, where I was born. As a Conservative community, Detroit was the engine of the world. But Liberal policies that you support have turned it into the toilet it is today.

      And under the last president we had historic economic HIGHS. The lows began when Liberals took over congress and neutralized him. And they really began under your messiah.

      He did not win fair and square and even with all the dead people votes ACORN cast for him, it still wasnt a landslide.

      This is why we are doing what we are doing. you are a perfect example. We do not want someone as ignorant as you to do for Texas what you’ve done for Detroit. Or California. Or New York back when it was New Jack City.

      • jefe68

        No you are wrong. The South takes more federal dollars than it gives in taxes. The North East gets the worst deal in this. Texas and other Red states such as Mississippi have the worst education systems in the nation as well as health care.

        The ignorance you’re pointing to is really a reflection of yourself. You’re comment, instead of being informed and based on some facts is fiction.
        I would love to see Texas leave the Union.
        Why, because I think you folks would fail big time.
        It’s not 1916 anymore. Pancho Villa will not be the foe you face, it will be very well armed paramilitary groups funded by drug cartels. One scenario is you end up looking a lot like Northern Mexico which is in control of these cartels. They are already in Texas.

        How would you afford to defend your small nation?

        • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

           Jefe…your “the south gets more federal dollars” has been addressed elsewhere.  Texas does not fit that generalization.  Get some real facts on that point.

          Northern Mexico….that would be the country that can’t regulate itself, let alone invade another country right?  Eh, not really worried about them.

          As for who would defend our small nation??? 

          :-)  Every Texan.  That’s who.

        • http://www.facebook.com/Cato.Uticensis Matt Dedinas

          No, the South does not take more than it puts in. Look up Texas, it gives way more than it takes. Considering also that it has massive Army, Navy and Air Force assets, it gives WAY more than it takes. As does the South as whole. You are the one who is so ignorant, and condescending at the same time.

          • jefe68

            Technically Texas is in the South West and I am aware that they send more tax dollars than they get back.
            So does my state, Massachusetts. 
            So you’re going to count heads here in terms of how more Southerners are in the military? That’s a hyperbolic argument at best. I could say the lions share of military R&D is done at MIT and other Northern Universities. This idea of fighting the Civil War over again is stupid and that’s ignorant.

            How am I ignorant, and condescending the facts are there.
            The Southern states have the worst schools, the highest rates of teen pregnancies, the worst health in terms of obesity and other health issues. That’s not condescending, it’s a fact. They also have the lions share of child poverty and poverty over all.
            That you choose to ignore the social issues of states such as Texas speaks volumes about the way you think.

            Also I’m not the one calling people assholes, you are.

        • onceproudamerican
        • onceproudamerican
    • Marvintyson

      Hey, why so bitter, Milli? Methinks you may not be as happy in your socialist Utopia as you say!
       You don’t want us here, we don’t want to be here, what’s the problem? We are all rowing in the same direction, the only difference being, Texans have both oars in the water!
      And, as for the race card you so ably played, Mr. miller and myself have been working for Texas independence for decades. I can assure you, neither he nor I, knew Mr. Obama existed at the time we started down this road.

      • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

         Both oars and a boat!

        LOL…great comment Marvin!

    • onceproudamerican

       You don’t sound very tolerant of diversity…

  • blake_gillespie

    while secession is likely to go nowhere, it might be a nice excuse to stop and think about the benefits the states derive from being part of the union… i’m thinking highways, national defense, national institutes of health, etc… maybe we could spend some time enumerating why those are good, since most of the recent election saw us hearing about dismantling those institutions from within the union (a less ridiculous cause with similar outcomes).

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

       The national defense that leaves our borders porous and prosecutes border agents for doing the job we pay them to do??? The highways that eat tires and destroy the alignment of my vehicle every time I venture onto them??? The national institute of health that says we have to pay for abortions against our religious convictions??? The EPA that tells the citizens they are supposed to be working for that they can not use the land they purchased cause of bird or fish??? Nice try, Blake. 

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        The border thing sounds like a fight between you and all those multinationals who love the way that people of unknown origin lower the cost of labor and make Texas “goodforbidness”, if you’re willing to admit it.

        The rest of your stuff is beyond reach.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

           Nothing is beyond my reach. I am a freewoman. The only reason the multinationals are here without the proper documentation can be laid directly at the feet of DC….it is one of its few constitutional duties and it does a poor job of defending its citizenry.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            Hilarious. May you continue to think yourself free from your corporate uberlords who don’t want anything to change on immigration, and pretend that Texas’ innate businessgoodsensefreedom! is the cause of that low-cost labor.

            And what you don’t know about the birth control provisions nobody can teach you. Suffice to say I hope you never end up a poor woman with a pregnancy scare who wants real birth control from a “non-Christian” pharmacy in a one-pharmacy town.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

             Go lick your masters boots some more and beg for your life saving medical procedure/ medications….if the state believes you are a worthy investment :)>

          • jefe68

            More hyperbolic BS.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

             You might want to lick the boots of the IPAB…they are the ones with holding the meds and procedures that would make logical though possible instead of just asserting hyperbolic bs…which is the height of hubris on your part :) jef68 Oh, and forget all the 22 TAXES and FINES built into the massive, bloated, bureaucratic nightmare that statists luuuuvvvv…till they are the victims of the system they built.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            I take it you’ve never been to the healthcare disaster which is McAllen, Texas.

            Project much?

          • http://www.facebook.com/Cato.Uticensis Matt Dedinas

            Please! Like you arent a tool of George Soros!

          • jefe68

            Hyperbolic BS.

          • sickofthechit

             Who is giving them jobs?  Greedy Texans who want to get by on the cheap.

        • http://www.facebook.com/Cato.Uticensis Matt Dedinas

          yeah TF, and the Unions I assume you support have done such a great job for Northern cities. Since a new worker who knows nothing has to start at $30/hr, do you really wonder why companies look elsewhere? Why dont you go live in downtown Detroit, Cleveland or Milwaukee? And I dont mean in a cushy suburb, I mean in the urine smelling city centers. Go live with what your Liberal policies have done.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            I look up and down my street and I see cops and firefighters. I venture further out in my town and I see retirees getting the pensions they paid for.

            I see what the unions have done.

        • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

           So-called ‘illegal aliens’ are the new version of slavery – in Texas and everywhere else in the USA.

          We need to acknowledge that we need them and we need to admit any and all people who want to immigrate.  We have been enriched by immigrants since we formed this country; and we have always seen resistance and animosity toward new immigrants by the older immigrants and their descendants.

          Neil

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000597494222 Kenneth Smith

            Why should we acknowledge that we need them when we have laws prohibiting their entry? We already have a 1965 Immigration Act which encourages the replacement of the very people who established this nation separately from Great Britain.  This acknowledgement you are hoping for should take the form of lobbying legislators for a change in the law.  Further, many are more than frustrated with a government that refuses to enforce the law and prevents states from enforcing laws to protect the border. A government that is defying its own laws meets one of those definitions for illegitimacy.

          • TheDailyBuzzherd

            You acknowledge it every day by the cheap food and cheap stuff you buy at Wal•Marts. LoL

          • onceproudamerican

            Which does nothing to change the fact the the federal government is negligent in their duty Art. 4, Sec. 4 to protect the States from invasion!

      • blake_gillespie

        Hm. I’m pretty sure dirt would wreck my tires faster that bumpy asphalt on highway 101 that ARRA just paid for resurfacing; I don’t think the NIH has a stance on abortion; and I think the EPA’s mandate is to Protect the Environment, not landowners’ interests.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

          What makes you think the roads here would be dirt??? Texas has its own oil and refineries :) that is the chemical basis for the asphalt :) Don’t think they have a stance…you might want to check your homework there, Sparky. If you get a paycheck from by and of the people….you work for them…not them work for you…..it is the kind of thinking and lack of logic that produced the mire and bilge we have in DC today, well done :)

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

          Actually, Texas’ mottos include the following:

          “Like Mississippi but with good roads.”

          “Thank god for (Alabama, Arkansas, whichever state is keeping Texas from ranking 50th in some unwanted category).”

          That much of Texas is described as suitable for roads to last a long time is a big part of it. Think of a Montana winter, by comparison.

    • http://www.facebook.com/Cato.Uticensis Matt Dedinas

      and who mans our national defenses? Texans are over 1/10th of the military, all southerners make up over 40%. Throw in people from Mountain states, plain states and flyover midwesterners and that’s the lion’s share of our troops. What would you Liberal metrosexuals do if we stopped defending you?

      • Mike_Card

        What happens to the Texas economy when all those bases close and their activities move to the USA?  Texans refuse to pay enough taxes to support a Texas Ranger defense force.

        • http://www.facebook.com/Cato.Uticensis Matt Dedinas

          Texas pays more into the Federal government than it gets out. And considering that much of what it gets out are for those military bases, itll do just fine. What will YOU do without those facilities, and without those troops, most of whom are flyover country people?

          • Mike_Card

            Just keep believin’ that, cracker.

          • onceproudamerican

             Then you can easily post facts to prove his assertion to be incorrect…?

          • onceproudamerican

             http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/11/states-federal-taxes-spending-charts-maps

      • jefe68

        This comment is so repugnant and off base one does not know where to start.
        My state, Massachusetts has done plenty to defend our nation. People who make comments like you do are immature and need to take a long look in the mirror and make an attempt to grow up.

        • http://www.facebook.com/Cato.Uticensis Matt Dedinas

          you referring to Lexington and Concord? The descendants of those people live in places like Utah, Montana and Nebraska today. The current inhabitants of Massachusetts dont do crap to defend this nation. They are more likely to pick up a sign and protst the military on behalf of a Castro, Chavez or Ho Chi Minh as take up arms to fight him.

        • http://www.facebook.com/Cato.Uticensis Matt Dedinas
        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000597494222 Kenneth Smith

           Why don’t you address the numbers presented? Where are the men and women from Massachusetts in the military? Are they there? Alabama and Texas are well represented. Oh yes, Senator Kerry said they were stupid for joining…..

      • 1Brett1

        “liberal metrosexuals”…if at don’t beat all, well shut my mouth! What we have here is a genuine, tobacco-stained, sleeveless-shirt-wearin’ redneck jerkwad. You see, you people who have come here today have proven the stereotype.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Carlo-Danese/100002305865604 Carlo Danese

        Your phony machismo struts pretty good on paper – As a Northerner I’ve lost friends in many wars – A few facts: Texas and some southern states receive approx $1.70 for every $1 of taxes you pay.  New York receives less than $1. I paid taxes for many wars I didn’t believe in … Texas has among the lowest proportion of college graduates, some of the worst air and water pollution, highest medical costs, a large proportion of the morbidly obese — Look behind the numbers when you talk about growth … You are becoming an ideal Koch brothers state.  Maybe they can be your prez and vp.  Go ahead, secede.  We don’t need you, you are a fat stupid drag on us.

    • http://www.facebook.com/southern.swamp.fox Francis Marion

      Secession will happen; it’s just a matter of time.

      • jefe68

        No, it wont.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

           The republic is in its death throws….you will not be able to tell others what their “fair share” is simply by voting and will have to find out what kind of shared sacrifice is required from you and your family to maintain the current power structure. You can not sacrifice justice to mercy and expect either one to survive.

      • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

        Texas has already tried secession twice before – how did that work out?

        If I recall correctly, both were essentially over slavery – what exactly is the reason(s) for wanting to secede this time?  Obviously, slavery is a morally repugnant thing – if that was the reason before, are you sure you have good moral reasons now?

        Neil

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

          Since
          the general civilization of mankind, I believe there are more instances
          of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent
          encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations
          James Madison, Speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention on Control of
          the Military, June 16, 1788 in: History of the Virginia Federal
          Convention of 1788, vol. 1, p. 130 (H.B. Grigsby ed. 1890)

        • http://www.facebook.com/Cato.Uticensis Matt Dedinas

          neither time was over slavery. Santa Anna proclaimed himself Dictator and the Americans who had settled in Texas swoire allegiance to the Mexican Republican Constitution. Now I know a Liberal such as yourself would love to chap his lips on the behind of any Dictator, but Texans tend to resist such things.

          • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

            What are the specific reasons for secession now?

            Neil

          • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

             You obviously haven’t been paying attention.

          • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

             Yeah, I must have missed the specific reasons – I heard a lot of vagaries, no specifics.

            Neil

          • onceproudamerican

            Texans want to assert their right of self-determination.  What more reason is needed?  The US and the UN both support self-determination already as a matter of policy.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000597494222 Kenneth Smith

          If you look around, slavery is not part of our experience these days, so it is irrelevant to any consideration for modern secession. Why don’t you ask your neighbors what makes them upset so much with the federal government?

        • Marvintyson

          Better to be silent and have people think you a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt!
          Both times Texas sought Independence was because of despotic Governments. While no logical argument can be made in defence of the dispicable institution of slavery, more than a dozen other nations did away with slavery within a few years of the war, and not one had a military conflict to see it done. Lincoln himself said the war was never about slavery, but about saving the Union. This was in 1862, almost two years into the war.
          Our moral reasons for wanting Independence are, simply, the usurpations of powers reserved to the States, by the Federal Government. That is the reason for the staggering, crippling debt that will have American children living in conditions of a third world country within 50 years. I’m sorry, but I will do everything in my power to see that my children don’t go down with that ship!

      • Samuel Walworth

         As far as I know, it TX cannot secede from the Union.
         

        • http://www.facebook.com/marissa.wright.35 Marissa Wright

           You don’t know much then, do you?

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000597494222 Kenneth Smith

       It is far too early to say that secession is going nowhere. The petitions will have no effect other than garnering an annoyed response from the President. The people, however, are taking measures already to ensure their states are severing their ties with the DCregime, and it begins with nullifying Obamacare. In 1861 several states did the honorable thing in assessing the will of the people, appointing delegates to “Secession Conventions” and taking a vote, then withdrawing their national representatives from Congress. We may do similar measures again. Then wait for the provocation from DC, just as with the Fox Expedition to Ft. Sumter. But we have cameras this time, and an international press.

    • C_Alan_C

      As if Texans have not paid dearly for those “benefits.” Your silent dismissal of the immense federal regulatory and tax burdens is telling. What reader here seriously thinks that Texans could not maintain and build our own roads as efficiently as the federal govt? Whom here thinks that federal intrusion into healthcare has been a net improvement over once free market system? Not to mention the enormous debt burden, and constant threat of blowback from our overseas military adventures.

  • 1Brett1

    I hope the Texans visiting here today are not representative of other Texans. Although, I’ve been through East Texas and the southern part of Texas…God forsaken places those are, for sure.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

       God forsaken???? You haven’t been to Texas then at all….you just drove through.

      • 1Brett1

        I didn’t mean you haven’t forgotten God, Luana, if you catch my drift.

        P.S.-I think you forgot a question mark, there, after forsaken. ☺

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

           whatever, why would I care what a snot nosed, low down, non able to read piece of crap, like Brat obviously is,  thinks and if Brat thinks at all?? As long as you feel good, Brad :)>

    • http://www.facebook.com/Cato.Uticensis Matt Dedinas

      then why is it so important for you if Texas remains loyal to your Federal Oligarchy? What the Hell do you care?

      • 1Brett1

        Matt, this is a forum I come to almost everyday and make comments on. It’s what we regular listeners to On Point do. I can only make comments of I like all parts of Texas or live in Texas? That sounds a little too much like a “you’re not from around here” mentality. 

        • http://www.facebook.com/Cato.Uticensis Matt Dedinas

          Fine, but what gets me is, you Liberals have such a disdain for Texas. You look down your royal noses at it. Why do you want it to adhere? If its so hateful to you, you should support letting it go.

          • 1Brett1

            I do support letting it go, whole heartedly.

          • TomK_in_Boston

            Are you really surprised that American patriots would like to keep our great nation together, even if some parts seem to be full of citizens who are disloyal? What I’d really prefer is to see the texans who are loyal to the USA assert themselves. If you are really a majority and not a lunatic fringe, don’t let the door hit you…

            RE your “Federal Oligarchy”, the USA is indeed changing into an oligarchy, but it is run by corporations and ultra-rich like romney. United Health is a lot more likely to ruin your day than the Feds.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000597494222 Kenneth Smith

         Money, I think. That’s about it. If they could stipulate one condition for granting secession, if Texas or other Southern state would agree to it, would be to leave the IRS fully staffed in the seceded states & collecting taxes.

        • onceproudamerican

          That would be taxation without representation!   If the federal government obeyed the Constitution there wouldn’t be a defict, a national debt, and we wouldn’t be having this conversation…

    • Derick_Mickles

      Buddy, you just have no clue. Yes, this is the way we really are. Deal with it. 

    • Derick_Mickles

      East Texas is beautiful. It doesn’t matter if this guy doesn’t like it. He doesn’t count. We do! 

    • Marvintyson

      You mean the ones that openly say they love freedom and want the God given right to self-determination promised in our Constitution? (You remember the Constitution, the one that the Federal Government whizzes on each day). I can assure you, That’s the way most Texans feel!
      By the way, feel free to stay away! We won’t miss you I promise!
      I’m sorry, that sounded harsh. If you decide to stay away, fine, if you decide to visit again, you’ll find Texans to be some of the nicest people on earth, but we can get snotty if we feel our beloved State is being dissrespected!

      • 1Brett1

        Exactly my point: many Texans don’t want anyone around them who has a different viewpoint, and many can get threatening when others do. Now, to give you credit, you modified your point. Thank you. 

        I actually have a great fondness for parts of Texas and various people from Texas, but when people disagree, even vehemently, is it really the best thing for people to draw their proverbial guns and say some kind of modern equivalent to, “you take that back mister”? It doesn’t matter whether someone else shows verbal respect for the state, and it’s okay to not like them if they do, but to be hateful or threatening back?

        I’m sure if I went to parts of Texas and said in a public forum that I hated Texas, a mob would form and try to physically harm me…and that’s bullshit.

  • http://www.facebook.com/michael.hill.501 Michael Hill

    Texas and the entire South should separate themselves from the current regime. Texans and other Southerners are a distinct people and are different from those who live elsewhere. We would be better off without them and they without us. As a proud Southern nationalist from Alabama, I wish all you Texans well. Check out The League of the South at http://www.dixienet.org

    • Marvintyson

      While I think each State should be independent in it’s own right. I believe others will join Texas in Independence. The South as well as the Heartland States, will seek their own freedom!
      I’m a lifelong Texan, but I will say without hesitation, “I do love me some Alabama!” I just returned from a trip to ‘Bama and I love Her still!

  • hennorama

    Secession is simply not going to happen.  While it’s interesting to see some frustrated individuals speak out, it is ultimately simply going to be a footnote to Pres. Obama’s post-reelection period.  It’s similar to (as many have noted) the silly “I’m moving to Canada” nonsense some spouted post-reelection of Pres. Bush II.

    Interesting, but moot.  Those who want to secede may be better served organizing politically, since they will soon be co-opted by the Republican Party in exactly the same way the Tea Party-ers have been co-opted.  The Republican Party needs their energy, just as they needed the energy of the TPers.

    No doubt the names on those petitions have already been gathered as leads for fundraising and other efforts by various political parties and other groups. Enjoy the barrage of snail mail, email and phone contacts you’ll soon be receiving!

    • Derick_Mickles

      Large things have small beginnings. 

    • Marvintyson

      It’s a list I’m proud to put my name on! That’s the reason I put my real name as my “user name” I’m not afraid and I don’t hide.
      A determined people WILL be free, it may take time but they will be free! Georgia, Ukrain, Estonia, Latvia,and more than 30 others have all fought this battle and won. They will soon be joined by Scotland, Catalonia, and one day soon,Texas!
      By the way, I just got off the phone with the Chairman of the Republican Party in Texas and promised him the loss of 90% of Independence minded Texans in the next election cycle if they don’t publicaly support the right of Texans to vote. We are many and we are conservative voters! They cannot win without us!

      • hennorama

        Your pride is noble and noted. While it’s certainly true that a proud and determined few can make a difference, your quest is quixotic and will ultimately be fruitless. Interesting, but fruitless nonetheless.

        And I doubt that the Republican Party in Texas will much miss 90% of however many Texans have already signed the secession petition or petitions currently in circulation, assuming you could convince them turn away from the Republican Party.

        At least not during the next election cycle. In 2012, 4,555,799 Texans voted for Mr. Romney. This was 57.2% of Texans who voted. In 2010, 55.2% of Texan voters went for Gov. Perry (2,733,784 votes). To switch to a Republican minority, and assuming there will be over 5 million Texans voting in 2014, there would need to be a switch of at least 250,000 votes from Republicans to candidates from other parties.

        Have fun tilting at THAT windmill.

        • Marvintyson

          You, like most folks outside of Texas seriously underestimate our numbers, Sir. The Texas Nationalist Movement is growing quickly and we already have between Three and four hundred thousand members. The best independent estimates of “influence” is closer to 1.5 million. Think of us as a small group of redneck knuckle draggers if you wish, but we are a formidable political force in Texas.

          • hennorama

            Thank you for your response. BTW – I do not answer to “Sir” as I do not identify my sex/gender in a public forum. I do appreciate your formality, however.

            I have also made no comment as to the merits of your quest, nor about those who support Texas secession. I’ve merely described secession as a futile effort. It is interesting that you assume that I would characterize you and/or your group as “redneck knuckle draggers,” especially as the only descriptive terms I’ve used in my posts are “passionate,” “noble” and “proud and determined.” Curious.

            Even if your maximum numbers are accurate, getting 90% of them (or anywhere near that portion) to NOT vote Republican is highly unlikely, especially if they have been voting Republican. “Influence” is an amorphous term, and translating “influence,” however one defines it, into voting is no simple task.

            I suppose you might also try to convince them to simply not vote, but that would be unlikely to help your cause. Presumably you have some Democrats and members of other political parties in your group, but that is no doubt a fairly small number. The remaining option is voting for a 3rd party, but this is also highly unlikely. Those are the political realities.

            Thank you again for your response.

  • Kenneth Rubenstein

    Secession didn’t work out real well the first time, and guess what would happen again. Signed, a ‘maggot’ who voted for Obama. As a maggot, I can look forward to a tasty meal.

    • http://www.facebook.com/Cato.Uticensis Matt Dedinas

      yes, parasite, you cant have Texas after youve devoured Detroit, Cleveland, San Francisco, Los Angeles and New Jack City

      • 1Brett1

        You mean he can’t have TexASS? 

        (Remember you started it with “New Jack City”!)

      • Kenneth Rubenstein

        I believe it was the Bush Jr. administration locusts that managed to break the bank for the rest of the country.

        • onceproudamerican

           Some folks refuse to understand that Bush wasn’t a conservative, and conservatives didn’t support him!

          • TheDailyBuzzherd

            Did you actually type that?

            That view isn’t even revisionist … it’s delusional … just as secession … but, whatever.

      • jefe68

        Hyperbolic BS alert.

    • Marvintyson

      This is not 1860 and the age of holding people by force of arms is no more. It is history, like the rest of the “Empire Building”period.
      More than 30 Nations have declared their Independence from other Nations in the last two decades and the U.S. and the U.N. have recognized every one of them as Nations of the world community. It would be very hard to convince the world of the “justice” of subjugating a people by force of arms once they vote to be free.
      I don’t take any offence at your vote for Obama, you shouldn’t take offence at my desire for freedom. It would not harm you in any way.

      • Kenneth Rubenstein

        It was the Ft. Worth newspaper that called out us maggots who had the temerity to vote for Obama instead of Texas’ son, Willard ‘Mitt’ Romney. If this is the kind of thing a lot of Texans feel, they’re crusin’ for a bruisin’.

      • jefe68

        Have you ever been to Northen Ireland?
        How about the former Yugoslavia?

        But I do think you have the right to voice your ideas of freedom. I do doubt that you will prevail as the Civil War put the idea of secession to an end.
        You should write a letter to Justice Scalia and ask him about this. I think you might be surprised by his answer.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/BY4HHK7Y2FGJVCPV4FIGV7QBM4 scottwar

    Although Secession is a good gesture and message to send to washington, I’m quite sure that it won’t happen now. Perhaps in a couple of more years under the Obama dictatorship will push us to the point of a more viable Secession movement. I pray God that we will Seceed. If those of you on this blog who are against secession don’t like it, then move north into the socialist oligharchy that is still being called the United States of America.

    • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

       President Obama is a dictator – really?  What has he done to make you think that?

      Neil

      • Kenneth Rubenstein

        Don’t matter. The Fox Gospel says it.

      • onceproudamerican

         He signed the NDAA, and has killed American Citizens without charges or a trial.

  • TheDailyBuzzherd

    Pffft … where was Tejas from 2002 on? We were warned well in advance that tax cuts during wartime would lead to crippling deficits … and who are these types who “represent” secession? According to my files, a GOOD CHUNK of Texans had been on the dole due to lost oil jobs before the newest “Black Gold” rush of fracking became widespread.

    Cut the cord, fine, but Good Luck defending your own border.

    • http://www.facebook.com/Cato.Uticensis Matt Dedinas

      what does the Federal Oligarchy do now except launch its asinine lawsuits?

      • TheDailyBuzzherd

        WHY keep blaming The Fed for this problem, when it’s obvious it’s the Conagra cartel and donors to Texan politics are the root of the problem? You can’t have cheap food and drugs otherwise …

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

           BECAUSE IT is THEIR FAULT!!!! This is not rocket surgery, Buzz, we pay for a service (secure borders) that we don’t get!!! Now, sit and spin….I don’t care how noble the intent….the outcome is what matters when it comes to the matter of security!!!

          • TheDailyBuzzherd

             Hmmm … last I looked, I hadn’t a need for surgery on my rocket, but I digress.

            OK, what is your personal experience. Are you in a border town? Are guns freely exchanging hands? Do you hear gunfire?

            The problem of border control, as I’ve recognized it, is coordination of a consistent plan with achievable results. I’m unconvinced building a Pink Floyd Wall is going to keep people from freely passing. Many border agents have a problem with shooting people outright. In the end, the only solution that makes sense is to kill the incentives people up north to hire them, or that Mexico becomes a viable economy herself again. Only one or both those scenarios offer any real permanent change. Oh … we also have to reduce our appetite on recreational drug use or legalize it. That too would help, as distasteful as that sounds.

          • TheDailyBuzzherd

            … and, by the way, would you be as adament about “border control” if the invaders were white? Kinda curious.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

           You got proof of your allegations,Buzzhead???other than a blog site??? WE pay for a service (secure borders) that are not secure….I bet, Buzz, if you got a happy meal and they forgot the fries you would pitch a fit…but the borders wide open, which you pay as a service and don’t get…..fine????

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

       Luck on the border we don’t need….we need the feds to either do the job of securing the border or get out the line of fire.

      • jefe68

        So you’re into shooting people who cross the border? Are you kidding?

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

           If that is what it takes to secure Texas…yes. It should be the priority of the people who supposedly represent us to protect us….which they have FAILED to do for over 40 years.

          • TheDailyBuzzherd

            Well, then you might as well shoot the bald-headed schmucks at WallyMart who hire ‘em. They’re the reason, if there is any reason, for the illegals to rush that border. Them and the vast corporate agriculture market.

    • Marvintyson

      A lot of us were where we are today, working hard for Texas freedom! While Obama’s re-election may have served as a catalyst for an increased focus in mainstream Texans and around the country, the Texas Nationalist Movement has been a viable entity for decades.
      We could see the loss of freedom and the drift toward socialism through many Presidential terms and we simply want the God given right of self-determination promised in our Constitution.
      No one is asking any government entity to “declare” us free and Independent, we simply want a non-binding referendum placed before the people of Texas to vote on. What could be more American, or more Texan, than letting people vote?

      • TheDailyBuzzherd

        God won’t hear your calls … you’re on your own … YOU are the master of your own destiny … I say, go for it, but you’ll fail. You’re a minority, just as the guy the majority voted back into The Big Chair. But soon, his kind will be the majority, in your state as well, I wonder how that will go down? Secession one county at a time?

        • onceproudamerican

           Obviously you are unaware of the fact that less than 9% of the inhabitants of America were involved in any way with the American Revolution…

          • TheDailyBuzzherd

            How does that fit here, only in that you’ll “employ” Mexicans to fight invading Mexicans?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000597494222 Kenneth Smith

    @hennorama – true enough, the Republican party does indeed need my energy, since the Republican party is irrelevant as a national party without Southerners, oddly enough, and I am a Southerner. But the Republican party is working diligently to disenfranchise me by encouraging illegal immigration and legal immigration from the third world by means of the 1965 Immigration Act, just as it did with the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. I don’t need a national party with those plans. It can go the way of the dodo bird.

    • jefe68

      So, you’re against the premise of the 14th Amendment?
      Really? And you’re a secessionist and you want to be taken seriously in the 21st century?

    • hennorama

      Thank you for your response.

      Even assuming your comment to be true, which is certainly disputable, how exactly is anyone taking away your power, any of your legal rights, or your right to vote?

      Even Texas finally ratified the 14th Amendment, albeit about 18 months after it was certified as part of the Constitution.  What’s YOUR beef with Due Process, Equal Protection and the definition of Citizenship?

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/BY4HHK7Y2FGJVCPV4FIGV7QBM4 scottwar

    For all of you people out there who think that it’s unpatriotic to talk of Texas secession, remeber that the United States Republic ceased to exist more than two weeks ago and furthermore, there is no hope of returning to a viable republic. That ship has sailed. I love the U.S. Flag and what it symbolizes and am saddened at what the nation who still flies this flag has become. I’ve come to the conclusion after much deep thought that It’s over. We must face the fact that the United States of America is no more.

    • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

       Can you please explain specifically why you think that the country has failed and “is no more”?

      Neil

      • 1Brett1

        Notice the “ceased to exist more than two weeks ago” line?

        • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

           I did – President Obama was reelected for another four years; but I want to hear the specific reasons.  Why is now different from the previous four years?

          Neil

          • onceproudamerican

             The United States ceased to exist when the federal government stopped confining it’s actions to the enumerated powers in Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution and refused to perform it’s constitutional duties, such as Article 4, Section 4 for instance; and the States became powerless to repel it’s violations of their sovereign jurisdictions.  In reality Lincoln destroyed the US when he forced the southern States to ‘ratify’ constitutional amendments under the duress of military occupation.

          • TheDailyBuzzherd

            Are you too proud to admit you’re not really bothering will all this strictly on Constitutional grounds?

        • jefe68

          That is an interesting line, says it all. Read the link I posted that has Justice Scalia’ take on this.

          What I found interesting about this program today was the complete lack of the legal issues and that for Texas to succeed in seceding, (say that 5 times fast) they would have to sue the US which would mean it would end up in the Supreme Court.
          If Justice Scalia does not see this as a legal reality one would think this has a snowball in hells chance of even being heard in the SCOTUS.

    • jefe68

      Oh for the love of peanut butter. What is it with you people today and all these hyperbolic diatribes?

      Name one freedom you have lost. Name one.
      Oh wait you’ll have to have health insurance.
      Oh gee great. That means I wont have to pay for your sorry ass every time you go to the ER.

      • onceproudamerican

         Are you so uninformed that you are unaware of the: Patriot Act, warrant-less wire-tapping, the NDAA, indefinite detention without charges, hearing or counsel, and President Obama’s KILL LISTS?

        • jefe68

          Well you got me there. I did think of those and I’m as against those as you are. 
          But they are already law and have been since GW Bush.

          By the way all of this was started by a Republican President. Both parties have signed off on these laws. In my mind Obama is more like a moderate Republican than a liberal Democrat.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

       noticed the  hubrisitic response of the statists/leftists/”progressive” crowd….unless we all give in to their opinion we are just backwater hicks who don’t math, history, science (which is what I have my degree in :) language….they all assume which makes them look like the  animal that represents their party :)>

  • Eliza_Bee

    I’ve lived in Texas most of my adult life and think session is a joke.  Proponents of secession don’t address a huge problem we’d face after secession, which would be how to prevent becoming a northern outpost of the drug cartels.  Without the weight of the United States behind us, we’d be terribly vulnerable on that front.

    • http://www.facebook.com/Cato.Uticensis Matt Dedinas

      some parts of Texas are ALREADY northern outposts of the cartels and the Federal Oligarchy has done NOTHING

      • TheDailyBuzzherd

        Right, so tell our coke-idled brothers up here to stop feeding the cartels and THAT will end all that.

      • Eliza_Bee

        Matt, on what basis do you say the federal government has done nothing to curtail cartel activities in Texas?  

        There may be cartel activity here, but they’re not influential in our state government and don’t effect daily life for the average citizen.  However, if Texas were independent, the cartels would be pounding down the doors in every way possible.  This thought never seems to occur to secessionists.

      • jefe68

        You did not answer the question. Being hyperbolic is not an answer.

        It’s a good question, how will the fictional independent Texas defend itself from an invasion from Mexico?

        By the way you might want to look up the legality of this, the Civil War settled the secession issue.
        You folks lost, remember.

        • onceproudamerican

          If it is ‘settled’ which constitutional amendment says States cannot leave the Union? The Constitution is the supreme law of the land after all…

          • jefe68

            OK take it to the Supreme Court and see how far you get.

            I am afraid I cannot be of much help with your problem, principally because I cannot imagine that such a question could ever reach the Supreme Court. To begin with, the answer is clear. If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no
            right to secede. (Hence, in the Pledge of Allegiance, “one Nation,
            indivisible.”) Secondly, I find it difficult to envision who the parties to this lawsuit might be. Is the State suing the United States for a declaratory judgment? But the United States cannot be sued without its consent, and it has not consented to this sort of suit.

            Anthony Scalia

          • jefe68

            OK take it to the Supreme Court and see how far you get.

            I am afraid I cannot be of much help with your problem, principally because I cannot imagine that such a question could ever reach the Supreme Court. To begin with, the answer is clear. If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no
            right to secede. (Hence, in the Pledge of Allegiance, “one Nation,
            indivisible.”) Secondly, I find it difficult to envision who the parties to this lawsuit might be. Is the State suing the United States for a declaratory judgment? But the United States cannot be sued without its consent, and it has not consented to this sort of suit.

            Anthony Scalia

      • onceproudamerican

         In violation of it’s duty to the States:

        Article 4 Section 4

        The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall
        protect each of them against Invasion;

    • http://www.facebook.com/Cato.Uticensis Matt Dedinas

      except, of course, sue Texas and Arizona when they try to defend themselves because the Federal Oligarchs wont lift a finger

    • TheDailyBuzzherd

      Exactly.

  • Derick_Mickles

    What’s most telling is that a liberal leaning show like OnPoint is taking an obvious protest and fanning the flames. Secession will not happen, now, but the myth is being grown by the very side that is loudest about it. Then again, there’s an old saying about Texans: “So long as they are vocal, you’ve got nothing to worry about. It’s when they get real quiet that you’ve got trouble on your hands.” Northerners rant and rave before a fight. Southerners get real quiet, because talking time is over. If this did go down, it would be the caustic words of the left that turned a protest into a reality. Way to drive the wedge Liberals, it’s what you’re best at! 

    • TheDailyBuzzherd

      Dear Mr Rickles, I appreciate your deprecating wit, but talk of secession will go nowhere. We all know that. What Tom and Company are really doing is getting the root of the angst, rather than the baseless hyperbole with which you take issue.

    • TomK_in_Boston

      Liberal, LOL. On Point is part and parcel of the righty media.

    • jefe68

      Hyperbolic alert.

  • Brandstad

    What a dumb  conversation. 

    Succession is not legal and can only happen through an all out war. 

    People should concentrate on educating those around them of the dangers to our liberty and society that so many Americans choose to not think about or discuss.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

      Succession is legal. Wow….better to be though of as an idiot than to get on to your keyboard and prove it to the world :)

      • TheDailyBuzzherd

        Yuh mean its leegull ta be sucksessfil? I dirn’t no dat!111!!

      • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

        The US Constitution is pretty clear on this – when a territory asks to become a State, they accept the duties along with the benefits.  Once a state is admitted to the union, that is it.

        If we all backed out when we didn’t like something, then the country would not be worth anything.

        Do tell – what is the problem with the country right now that only secession will solve?

        There are lots of things I’d like to improve; starting with rejecting all anonymous and corporate money from our elections.  Money is not free speech – it is an action.

        Neil

        • onceproudamerican

           Where do you find those words?  There is nothing in the Constitution that says the States are bound in perpetuity, or that they cannot leave the Union; the Constitution would have never been ratified with such language.

          Since there is no language preventing a State from reasserting it’s independence in the Constitution, the 9th and 10th Amendments memorialize their right to do so.

          • jefe68

            And yet the matter was resolved in 1865.

          • http://www.facebook.com/meir.kahane.1 Meir Kahane

            So what if we “resolve” it again?

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Pat-Hines/555238048 Pat Hines

             No, actually, it was not resolved.

            Further, unlike 1865, while the south still has men living in it, the north has become effete, Sodomite, and feminized.

            The populations have become almost the same, numerically of course, so there won’t be 28 million people invading a country of nine million.

        • http://www.facebook.com/meir.kahane.1 Meir Kahane

          The country under the communists is not worth anything now.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Pat-Hines/555238048 Pat Hines

           Well, no, that’s not how the Constitution works.  It is an envelope within which the government it created must remain.  There are no exceptions.

          Secession is lawful because it is a power reserved to the states under the Ninth and Tenth Amendments thereof.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Pat-Hines/555238048 Pat Hines

         Secession is lawful.  In order to not be lawful, secession would have to be a power prohibited to the states by the Constitution.  The Tenth Amendment guarantees that secession is lawful.

        If you disagree with this, amend the Constitution.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Palmetto-Patriot/1248758243 Palmetto Patriot

      Secession was not ‘legal’ in 1776 either. But it worked. It can work again.

      • TheDailyBuzzherd

        The modern definition of the American Patriot is synonymous with “cockroach”, yes, I agree.

      • onceproudamerican

         It wasn’t legal for them because they were ‘subjects’, Americans are free and have the right to self-determination.

        “Each State, in ratifying
        the Constitution, is considered as a sovereign body, independent of all others,
        and only to be bound by its own voluntary act. In this relation, then, the new
        Constitution will, if established, be a FEDERAL, and not a NATIONAL
        constitution.”

        James Madison, Federalist No. 39, January 1788

    • jefe68

      You mean secession, not succession. One does relate to the other however.

      It is legal, but I doubt it will come to pass. The problem here is there are 26 plus million people living in Texas.

      One would think that more than few million will have to agree with this for it to be ratified on a state level.
      Then there is all the legal issues and the idea of suing the US in the Supreme Court. Which will most likely not even be heard by the court.

    • onceproudamerican

       Can you please share the documents you relied on to make that determination, and highlight the applicable portions thereof?

      “Each State, in ratifying
      the Constitution, is considered as a sovereign body, independent of all others,
      and only to be bound by its own voluntary act. In this relation, then, the new
      Constitution will, if established, be a FEDERAL, and not a NATIONAL
      constitution.”

      James Madison, Federalist No. 39, January 1788

    • http://www.facebook.com/meir.kahane.1 Meir Kahane

      Then let the war come.

  • jlynnor

    I do believe it can happen and I hope it does.  I am disgusted to know that tax money I have to send to the feds get wasted on so many programs that we don’t need. I also know a neighbor in our upper middle class neighborhood who applied for disability through social security and got it.  It’s disgusting, really.  She is only 55, has a bad back and bad knees but still can shop, travel, cook, do whatever she wants.  They have THREE cars, including a Jag and a Cadillac, a 3,000 squ. foot home, a pool, and travel all over the place.  She got a retro payout of $40,000 initially and now will get @facebook-100003086129269:disqus 2,000 for the rest of her life because she “can’t work” at her desk job. She hired a good lawyer.  I don’t want to support crap like that.  Texas has natural resources that we will actually use (unlike California), a good school system, plenty of good medical systems, and universities, a coast, a good shipping industry, plenty of land for ranching and farming, a fishing industry, factories and businesses that have their headquarters in Texas, millionaires to back businesses and invest, 3 of the top 15 largest cities in the U.S., and good infrastructure.  We don’t want to be socialist, and we shouldn’t have to be.  And yes, Texas can secede.  I believe that other states can, too, or they could separate as someone else suggested.  It has nothing to with stupid things that other are mentioning, such as slavery. How ridiculous.  That wasn’t the only issue with the War Between the States anyway.  It was mainly about state’s rights then, and it is now, too.  This needs to happen. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Justin-James/1415104594 Justin James

      Nobody like people who take advantage of the system and there are efforts to weed these people out.  What I fail to understand is what changed four years ago.  These programs have existed for 40 years through at least five Republican administrations.

      • jefe68

        You know what changed.

        • TheDailyBuzzherd

          The complexion? Thought so.

    • TheDailyBuzzherd

      Lessee … I tapped into my anger over this and wrote a term paper about gov’t waste 30+ years ago in high school. The rot from within will not be cured by running away from the problem as some small minority in Texas wants to do.

      As far as non-financial beefs this lot has with The Fed, that’s an entirely different matter. AGAiN, we’re back to the issue of separation of Church and state. Go back, I mean waaay back, to the first document we ever drafted: John Robinson’s Mayflower Compact. The reason this agreement was drafted with secular rather than religious visions in mind was because the collective people aboard the ship were of varying religious backgrounds and Robinson, himself a Christian, knew that any government established based on overt religious considerations would be doomed, and failing any agreement, would doom the colony and all those aboard.

      So, note to Texans: The Mayflower Compact was a document written by a Christian man who knew that rationality not divisive dogma was the tact to hold the company together. Just another lesson from history to be heeded.

  • C_Alan_C

    Sorry, but Matt is right. Texans’ efforts to secure our border have been hindered by federal interference, red tape.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Pat-Hines/555238048 Pat Hines

    Secession is a process and it is well underway all across the south.

    Here, in South Carolina, we’ll have a number of bills proposed at the start of the new legislative session that nullify several US government laws and court edicts.  As those are considered, we will have additional bills introduced to move the process still further along the path.

    Texas could, rather easily too, secede and go it entirely alone.  It is self sufficient in food, industry, petroleum, and it’s power grid is already separate from the rest of the United States.

    Secession is happening and there’s nothing that can stop it.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=32606540 Brian Belgard

      Nothing will stop it… Except the constitution and a complete lack of popular support.

      But yeah, other than those. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Pat-Hines/555238048 Pat Hines

         We already have the same level of popular support the Freedom Fighters has when they defended the state’s secession from the United Kingdom, most will follow our lead.

        A majority is not required, perhaps not even desired.

    • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

      How’s the drought going – would you need to import water?  What food would the country of Texas need to import?

      Neil

    • jefe68

      Yeah there is, it’s called the Supreme Court.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Pat-Hines/555238048 Pat Hines

         The US Supreme court is commanded by the Tenth Amendment not to interfere with state powers.

        So, no, the US Supreme court has no jurisdiction of any kind in this matter.

        • jefe68

          Well it will end up the courts if you get anywhere with this. Which you wont.
          Really? So the Citizens United had no effect on how states conduct elections? If this is the case then why did Montana go to court about it?

          If this ever gets into a Federal Court it’s going to be settled in the SCOTUS.

  • hypocracy1

    Texas…  LOL

    • hypocracy1

      You know the best part about Texas??

      It’s the Mexicans!

      • jefe68

        I disagree. Texas has a deep rich history in music.
        In fact they are major players in the rich musical history of our nation.

        Some notable Texans are: Scott Joplin, Blind Lemon Jefferson, Lightnin’ Hopkins, Johnny Winter, King Curtis, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Janus Joplin, Roy Orbison, Freddie King, Charlie Christian, Arnett Cobb, Redd Garland, Teddy Wilson, Kenny Durham, Ornet Coleman, T-Bone Burnett, Lyle Lovett, Roy Hargrove, to name a few.

        • TheDailyBuzzherd

          You forgot one: Kinky Friedman.

    • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

      I certainly want to get rid of Texas’ control over school textbooks – they try to deny scientific facts like evolution and replace it with flawed religious beliefs.

      Neil

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000597494222 Kenneth Smith

         See! We have agreement here. This is a win-win situation. We go, you win. It’s all good!

    • http://www.facebook.com/Cato.Uticensis Matt Dedinas

      end your suffering, your liberal majesty, let Texas go so you dont have to look down your royal nose at it anymore

  • TomK_in_Boston

    It’s interesting to see such disloyalty to the USA.

    We were very magnanimous in 1865. While I’d be happy to be rid of the red states now, and think we should have let them go in 1860, who knows what would happen?  Trials for treason? The CSA leaders were traitors who could easily have been executed in a different scenario.

    However if they can pull it off peacefully they’ll be fine:

    “Treason doth never prosper: what’s the reason? Why if it prosper, none dare call it treason.” 

    • atticusfinchesq

      Hmmm….funny a guy in Boston accusing others of treason…..Guess you thought the Boston Tea Party was a social gathering with cookies and tea……

      • TomK_in_Boston

        Funny anyone would think the American revolution means that treason against the USA is OK, but I’m beginning to see that counts for logic on the righty fringe.

        • atticusfinchesq

          Then I will type slowly JUST for you……What the Americans did against Britain was TREASON…because they felt their country was being oppressive.  You seem ok with that.  Now, when Texas wishes to do the same thing, you are NOT ok.  Hypocrite much?

          • TomK_in_Boston

            Got it. Since the USA was created in a revolution, our government has no right to hold itself together. Treason is A-OK. Better get back to your creation science lessons now.

          • atticusfinchesq

            Just as England had its right to hold itself together and the USA fought to leave?  Again, you seem all ok with leaving the mother country as long as it suits YOU.  And sorry, I am not in school.  I got my doctorate long ago.  Nice try.  Thanks for playing.   See Vanna for you nice parting gift……

          • TheDailyBuzzherd

            The Beatles were cool.

          • jefe68

            The treason was against the King who as sovereign of the British Empire, as it was then known, was the last word treason after parliament. 

            The act of treason, according to English law of that time was against the king.

            You are not getting this right at all.

              

          • atticusfinchesq

            no, you are just not bright enough to understand the nuances.

          • jefe68

            Oh but I am. That’s the whole point. You folk think your clever. But the reality is your not. You lost the Civil War. Even a very conservative Supreme Court judge thinks people of your ilk are idiots.

          • atticusfinchesq

            lol.  The Supreme Court also one said that blacks were not whole people.  Let me guess….you take everything they say as Gospel?

          • atticusfinchesq

            ah…the Supreme Court also said blacks were not people. I guess you accept everything the Supreme Court says?

          • TheDailyBuzzherd

            Then, does that nullify GW and GHW Bush’s presidencies?

          • jefe68

            You’re kidding, right?
            Are you saying that the act of treason that was spelled out by King George III is the same as way it is written in the Constitution?

            Because it’s not. Better read up on Article Three, Section 3.

          • atticusfinchesq

            lol….even typing slowly did not work for you.  Let me speak more to your level.  See Dick and Jane.  See Jane want to leave Dick.  Jane fights and leaves Dick.  Jane then has Sally.  Sally wants to leave Jane.  Jane gets all mad and says she is a traitor because you just can’t leave whenever you want to.  Sally says, “but you left Dick”.  Jane acts all stupid and says that does not matter.  

            Either way, neither Sally or Jane got Dick.

          • jefe68

            Using the Declaration of Independence as an excuse to secede from the Union is lame, real lame.

            Trying to come down to your level of intelligence is a waste of time as one has to dig a very, very deep hole.

            The sooner your lot secede is not quick enough for me. I wish your lot God speed in this endeavor.

          • atticusfinchesq

            I am not using the D of I as an excuse.  That comment by itself shows you are totally lost in this conversation.  So, the digging you are doing is to find your brain.  Keep digging.

        • onceproudamerican

           Actually, as British SUBJECTS their acts were treasonous, but as FREE people Americans have the right of self-determination, and both the US and the UN have supported such movements for the last 50 years.  If you care to extinguish your ignorance, just look in the Constitution for the definition of treason so you may use the term correctly in the future.

          • TomK_in_Boston

            If your mind is racing from obsessing about this stuff, maybe not working and with too much free time to spend compulsively reading wingnut blogs, you might find this helpful: just repeat

            SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN

            SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN

            SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN

            SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN

            …..

            I find it very soothing, HaHaHaHa

            Gotta go now, sorry, I do work, and pay taxes to support our great nation.

          • TheDailyBuzzherd

            If Lizzie were only 25 years younger, heh heh.

          • atticusfinchesq

            and why should that bother me?  Oh.  I get it.  You support liars.  I expected that

          • http://www.facebook.com/meir.kahane.1 Meir Kahane

            What a moron.  Typical communist.

        • jefe68

          It is amazing how parsing nuance seems to be beyond the pale in some circles.
           

          • TomK_in_Boston

            Thing is, we’re getting a look into a strange and unfamiliar alt universe. I would guess that the “sesesh” crawling out of the anthill spent lots of time on sesesh blogs (probably lots of gub’mint haters retired on SS, medicare and disability with not a lot more to do:)) where this idea that since the USA was born in a revolution, you’re a hypocrite if you don’t think sesesh is OK, is taken as gospel. “Federal Oligarchy” has been popping up too and I bet that’s as common as “how ya doin” in some circles. Whew…

        • Coastghost

          Just as downright peculiar as anyone arguing that the US government is constitutionally incapable of perpetrating tyranny. (Not all of us are enamored of Abraham Lincoln, for instance, whether the profile is provided by Ken Burns or Steven Spielberg. Lincoln is still justly derided in many parts of the US as “the tyrant of Springfield”. Abe Lincoln, Civil Libertarian:

          Initiated a war that was totally avoidable as late as April
          1861.

          Suspended habeas corpus without Congressional sanction (and
          without procedural safeguards that Congress instituted in March 1863).

          Imprisoned at least 14,000 civilians through the course
          of the war, including “mere” political opponents (Lincoln himself even wrote
          standing orders for the arrest of Chief Justice Roger Taney, although these
          orders were never served).

          Tried civilians in military courts.

          Monitored and censored postal and telegraph communications.

          Suppressed newspapers and caused over three hundred to cease
          publication for varying periods.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Pat-Hines/555238048 Pat Hines

       Disloyalty?  Magnanimous?

      The United States invaded the lawfully seceded states, murdered nearly one million people and then established a reign of terror that lasted for the 12 years it took us to wear out the US army and the thugs that came with it.

      Today, the US government is an empty shirt, the army full of Sodomites and lesbians and God knows what else.  It’s weak, and getting weaker by the day as it squanders its best talent in fruitless foreign wars.

      So, no, there will be no repeat of the invasion of 1861.

      Further, since treason is defined in Article III, Section III of the US Constitution, and nowhere else, it’s quite clear that it was Lincoln and every general officer of the United States military that committed treason by making war against the seceded states.

      The Confederate States did not start the war, the United States did so, from beginning to end, that was treason.

  • http://twitter.com/geniepoolsfl Genie Pools

    I have to say, thank you for all the amazing comments here, I needed a good laugh, and all this Secession talk hit the spot. Specially the comments for all those in favor of seceding. LMAO thank you, ;-)

    • atticusfinchesq

      You got no bigger than we did reading comments like yours…..

    • TomK_in_Boston

      Maybe the real reason they want to teach “intelligent design” is that biology is too hard :)

    • onceproudamerican

       I’m sure it was much like VP Biden’s uncomfortable laughter in the debate – inexplicable and out of place…

  • TheDailyBuzzherd

    All this yap reminds me of a Willy Nelson song, who was profiled on NPR last week as he’s marketing a new autobio …

    “Come on back Jesus and pick up John Wayne on the way …” Lulz …

  • doug

    A New Mexican writer wrote …”Poor New Mexico, so far from Heaven, so close to Texas.”

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000597494222 Kenneth Smith

     @1Brett1 – as delightfully acerbic as your reply was, I don’t think you took the time to address Matt’s poignant observation: Southerners constitute the single largest population group in the military. Losing that group will create a serious manpower crisis in the US Military.

    • TheDailyBuzzherd

      Possibly. It might mean the average IQ in the service will go up, too.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Pat-Hines/555238048 Pat Hines

         Unlikely, what will be left will be the few Yankee scum that enlist, and Mexicans and the other foreigners that the US government is enlisting by the thousands with promises of “citizenship”.

        All mentally challenged.

        • jefe68

          Cute, real cute.

    • jefe68

      Good, I’m all for a smaller military.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000597494222 Kenneth Smith

    You go man! Don’t let the facts get in your way!

  • jefe68

    I was looking up information and legal guidelines in terms of the legality of secession. In doing so I found this very interesting letter that Justice Scalia wrote to this very question.

    This is an excerpt from the letter:
    I am afraid I cannot be of much help with your problem, principally because I cannot imagine that such a question could ever reach the Supreme Court. To begin with, the answer is clear. If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede. (Hence, in the Pledge of Allegiance, “one Nation, indivisible.”) Secondly, I find it difficult to envision who the parties to this lawsuit might be. Is the State suing the United States for a declaratory judgment? But the United States cannot be sued without its consent, and it has not consented to this sort of suit.

    http://www.newyorkpersonalinjuryattorneyblog.com/2010/02/scalia-there-is-no-right-to-secede.html

    OK Texas, go ahead and good luck with the Supreme Court.

    • onceproudamerican

       I thought the only way the Constitution could be changed was by amendment or treaty, where do you find that a ‘war’ is a legal way to change our constitution?  Please share a link so I can read about this previously unknown method that isn’t specified in the Constitution.  Thanks in advance!

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Justin-James/1415104594 Justin James

        onceproudamerican, this wasn’t his words.  It was the words of our most conservative justice. 

        The legality of secession has been debated almost since the beginning of our country.  The constitution does not make it absolutely clear.  One thing that is clear is that major wars such as the civil war tend to change the way we view such things.  Whether you like it or not is irrelevant.  It is what it is.

        Taking a larger look at the question, it really makes little sense to talk about legality of secession.  A question such as this does not come down to what is written in laws but instead comes down to political will and military power.   

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Pat-Hines/555238048 Pat Hines

           Yes, your most conservative justice, keep that in mind.

          Scalia isn’t OUR justice at all.  We actually don’t need a justice, the SCOTUS has no jurisdiction over secession at all.

          To have jurisdiction over it, control of secession would have to be an enumerated power, or a power prohibited to the states.  Since neither of those two things are true, the SCOTUS can’t legitimately rule.

          • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

            What country do you live in?

      • jefe68

        The Constitution does not say that war is a legal way to change it. Can you at least try to be a little more knowledgeable in this subject?

        The Civil War did end the idea of secession did it not? It was the brought on by an exhaustion of legal means and Constitutional battles in both houses of Congress. You are aware of what went on before the Civil War started? This goes back to the original Founders who had these arguments about slavery. Adams was against it, and his wife Abigail was an abolitionist.

        Again, you do know why the Civil War was fought?

        Do you deny that there would be a huge legal hurdle for any state to secede? 

        • http://www.facebook.com/meir.kahane.1 Meir Kahane

          What makes you think we care if it is legal or not?  It was not legal to declare independence from Great Britain.

          • jefe68

            Really. Pretty extremist view point.

        • Marvintyson

          I have done a great deal of research on the causes of what you call the civil war and it definitely was not slavery! I am writing a book that has a history chapter in it dealing with this very issue. Lincoln himself said as much in 1862 (almost 2 years into the war). In a letter to Horace Greely dated 22August, He said that he was waging war “to save the Union, it was never about slavery. If I could save the Union by leaving every slave in bondage, I would do it. If I could save the Union by freeing every one I will do that!”
          The cause of the war was money! Cotton drove the world economy then as oil does now, and the south had the cotton. Secondly, the primary source of income for the Federal Government at the time was tarriifs on international trade. The Southern ports contributed more than 75% of this revenue. But, the North was far from solid in it’s support for a war to bind people to it who wished to be free, so Lincoln had to find a moral issue to “fire up the masses”, as it were, hence the Emancipation Procamation!

          • jefe68

            Interesting perspective and I do agree the Civil War was about economics. Was it also about states rights and the states, in this case the Southern states thinking that their rights superseded the Union as a whole. At least this is my take on one of the main reasons the war was fought. The North was hardly the place of purity in terms of slavery.
            Most of the slave ships were from New England. A lot of money was being made by people North and South of the Mason Dixon line.

            Then there were the draft riots in New York City.

            I do think the slavery issue was not in the fore front of Lincoln’s mind in 1862 and I’ve read he was even in favor of blacks returning to Africa as a solution. He did however come to the conclusion it was wrong, and that became pretty clear as the war dragged on.

            The South had the cotton, but the North had the mills, and the money.

          • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

            The north also had slaves – and many of the slave traders; including the biggest one based in Bristol, RI.  (see below)  The north had rum distilleries, factories to make machines used by slaves, fishermen to provide cheap protein to feed the slaves, ship builders to build the ships, bankers and insurance companies to finance and insure the “property”; etc.  The whole country was complicit in slavery.

            In the midst of all this proverbial screaming and yelling – please seek out and watch the film called “Traces of the Trade”.  It is quite illuminating.

            http://www.tracesofthetrade.org/

            Neil

          • Thinkin5

            Free labor makes big money. That’s a great basis for capitalism. For a handful of people.

    • TheDailyBuzzherd

      Dunno if I trust anything coming from a guy who thinks corporations are people …

      • jefe68

        It’s not a matter of trusting him.
        It’s a matter that he’s the most libertarian judge on the bench and if he thinks this matter is settled, that is there is no legal way for a state to secede, then one would think it’s going to be a bit of an up hill battle.

    • Marvintyson

      We’ll take our chances with the SC and Judge Scalia. I have heard other Federal judges say that nothing in law or the Constitution prevents a State from declaring it’s Independence.
      Here, I believe, is the more pertinent question; is it in any way morally defencible to forcibly hold a people who have freely expressed a desire for freedom at the ballot box?
      Keep in mind that more than 30 nations have declared Independence from other nations in the last2 decades, and the U.S and the U.N. have recognized every one of them. They will soon be joined by Catalonia (from Spain) and Scotland (from G.B.). The U.S. has already promised “speedy recognition” to both as soon as the votes are counted!

      • jefe68

        What other nations do has nothing to do with this at all. You folks are really out on limb here.
        I spent 8 years in Scotland and that’s a completly different situation as it pertains to Texas. It’s a different situation as it pertains to Northern Ireland for that matter.

        That said, it’s Justice Scalia, not Judge, is pretty clear on the matter from what I’ve read.

        Be my guest, take this court.

        Let ask this. Say you folks get this on a state wide ballet. Which is what you will have to do is it not?
        Lets say 9 million people vote for it and 12 million vote against it. Then what?

        • Thinkin5

          Put the 9 million in a fenced off section of scrub brush and call it Redneckville. They can fight it out with each other and make each other miserable.

        • Marvintyson

          I don’t believe Independence will lose, but if it were to fail I would walk away and say the people of Texas have spoken! I don’t speak for anyone else, but all I have ever sought is the freedom of Texans to voice their opinion at the ballot. Whatever their decision will be good enough for me.

        • Marvintyson

          I don’t believe Independence will lose, but if it were to fail I would walk away and say the people of Texas have spoken! I don’t speak for anyone else, but all I have ever sought is the freedom of Texans to voice their opinion at the ballot. Whatever their decision will be good enough for me.

  • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

    Wade Goodwyn speaks my mind.  Daniel Miller is only speaking in vagaries.  Those supporting secession need to make cogent and convincing arguments – so far it is merely “nudge, nudge, wink, wink – say no more!” How’s that saying go – “All hat and no cattle”?

    Neil

    • TheDailyBuzzherd

      I like Wade too. Dunno his feelings on this, but he delivers objectively, the way news is supposed to be presented.

  • TheDailyBuzzherd

    I’ll take a Freedom McRib with some Freedom Fries, thanks.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Justin-James/1415104594 Justin James

    It would be funny watching the brain drain that would result during the process of secession.  I’d bet the capitol of Texas (if not Houston, Dallas, etc.) would also quickly secede from Texas.

    • TheDailyBuzzherd

      As I typed earlier … county by county.

      BTW, this is a fun thread. Don’t take wisecracks too seriously. Serious topic, yes, but have some fun too. Wanna see some Yank jokes. I can take it.

  • Eliza_Bee

    Many Texans have never been out of the state.  They would not move out of state for a job, for example–even many college-educated people.  These people tend to regard Texas in the way the rest of the country regards the United States.  They love Texas and have a rightwing/libertarian contempt for federal government.  IMHO, this is what fuels the secession movement.  

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000597494222 Kenneth Smith

    Dateline to NPR:  Slavery and its constitutionality is not part of our experience now. We are not facing an impending Morrill Tariff. We are, however, facing the “Affordable” Care Act, the National Defense Authorization Act, the administration’s support of the United Nation’s personal firearms confiscation acts, to name but a few, all as a result of this administration’s actions. But beyond this administration, the national culture has declared orthodox, traditional Christianity to be at odds with the mainstream accepted culture

    • TheDailyBuzzherd

      Right, the current trends in Christianity probably ARE the problem.

    • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

       Kenneth,

      The Affordable Care Act is going to save trillions of dollars and lower the national debt.  It will lower the cost of doing business because it will help lower the cost of healthcare overall.

      I agree that we need to spend a lot less on the military industrial complex – that spending is a very poor investment.  And we have a lot more important things to do.  We have been throwing lots of money at the Pentagon, and I think it may actually hurt us more than help us.

      What gun confiscation acts do you refer to?  What do you need a gun for?  What “well organized militia” are you a member of?

      The US Constitution specifically protects your right to have your own religion, and for the government to not back any religion over another.  This country is specifically *not* based on any particular religion – so as to allow all religions freedom to practice their beliefs.

      Neil

      • http://www.facebook.com/meir.kahane.1 Meir Kahane

        What do I need a gun for?  To defend myself against the Communist Federal government.

        • Thinkin5

           Name for the new capital of TexASS, Crazy Town.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1408098372 Mari McAvenia

            It’s all that fatty, sugary food they gulp down by the whole hog. I really don’t see the average middle-aged, obese Texan as an agile, mobile fighting unit. Certainly not without a pickup truck & a shotgun to do the work they are not physically capable of doing themselves. Perhaps this sheds light on their fondness for cheap, illegal Mexican domestic laborers & their palpable fear of young, athletic African Americans. The intellectual vacuum in which they live is something else altogether. “Pride in Ignorance” ought to be the state’s motto.

        • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

          There are a lot of things wrong with *our* federal government, but being communist ain’t one of ‘em.  Heck, the USSR was not actually communist, and neither is China.  They are one-party oligarchies, I think?

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Pat-Hines/555238048 Pat Hines

         No it isn’t.  Further, many states have already passed, and many others are proposing nullification bills to keep Obamacare out until we secede.

        Then it will be moot.

      • http://www.facebook.com/michael.hill.501 Michael Hill

         “What do you need a gun for?” Dude, you can’t be that stupid, can you?

      • http://www.facebook.com/michael.hill.501 Michael Hill

         “What do you need a gun for?” Dude, you can’t be that stupid, can you?

        • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

           No Michael, I am not stupid; and my question was a serious one.  What do you need a gun for in this (supposedly) civil society?  Do you hunt for food?  I buy my food at a store, so I don’t need a gun.

          Are you a member of a well organized militia?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000597494222 Kenneth Smith

    @Wade Goodwin – do you not think the current move to secede was precipitated by the Affordable Care Act with its mandates affecting religious liberty, the National Defense Authorization Act and the chief executive’s prerogative for “indefinite detention”? This is a case of the modern day US government impinging our liberties, not the despotic government of 1860.

    • Thinkin5

      I would think that the “right to life” supporters would support the Affordable Care Act since it supports LIFE. Strange……very strange.

    • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

      The Patriot Act was terrible when it was enacted by President Bush, and it is still terrible now; I’ll grant you that.

      But what religious liberty is infringed by the Affordable Care Act?  Does a boss/business owner get to enforce his/her morals on an employee in a personal matter?

  • sickofthechit

    Let the secessionists have an amount of land equivalent to the proportion their numbers represent to the whole population of Texas.  They’ll be lucky to garner one corner of the smallest county. charles

  • http://www.facebook.com/TXRVer Wanda Gray

    The
    government ignores the Constitution and chooses to forgets it specifically
    says, “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution,
    nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or
    to the people.” 

    We have God given rights but God is no longer permitted in
    the US. We no longer have even freedom of religion.

     

    Texas
    Constitution Article 1, Section 2: 

    “INHERENT
    POLITICAL POWER; REPUBLICAN FORM OF GOVERNMENT.

    All
    political power is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded
    on their authority, and instituted for their benefit. The faith of the people
    of Texas stands pledged to the preservation of a republican form of government,
    and, subject to this limitation only, they have at all times the inalienable
    right to alter, reform or abolish their government in such manner as they may
    think expedient.”

    Our rights have been infringed in hundreds of ways but the gravest is for politicians to ignore the will of the people who, by virtue of the Constitution, are to be answerable to the people. We no longer have a republican form of government. 

    It is a shame people refuse to hear that Texas Nationalist Movement is 16 years old. That alone proves this is not a reaction to the 2012 election but no one wants to hear the truth. Texas has the legal and moral right to put a vote to the people that can decide independence or not just as the people would decide who will lead the new Republic of Texas after a new Constitution is written.

    • TheDailyBuzzherd

      OK, so when the nuts finally make Texas a dry state, OOOPS!!! country, will you guys import weed from us, Mexico or will you grow your own?

    • jefe68

      If I’m correct in understanding what you posted is the Texas Constitution and does not have any baring on the federal government. How have your rights been infringed?

      Good luck with this when you attempt to take this to a Federal court.

  • marygrav

    Texas sounds like it is part of the Third World when elections are settled by violence.  On the map, Texas is the size of the Congo.  And everyone should remember what occured in the Congo.  I thought that in America when we lose, we go on and wait until the next election, not threaten to withdraw from the Union.

    Third World America is here and doing well.

    • TheDailyBuzzherd

      No, “Third World America” is growing only. Not good. Meanwhile, my neighbors keep buying bigger houses …

    • http://www.facebook.com/michael.hill.501 Michael Hill

       In reality, Texas is trying to escape from the Third World otherwise known as Obamaland.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Pat-Hines/555238048 Pat Hines

       The Third World in North America is in the northern part of the country.  See Chicago, Detroit, and New York City for examples.

      I don’t think there’s a single southern state that won’t be better off separated from the United States.

      I’ve done an economic analysis for South Carolina and we’d be far wealthier than we are now as a sovereign republic.

  • http://www.facebook.com/gary.kay.7777 Gary Kay

    The source of the human race’s problems has always been human nature. While it is possible for human beings to conduct themselves in a noble manner, and indeed many have done so, it is also possible for human beings to behave in a base manner, and also to do things that are just plain stupid.

    The problem with human nature is that there is no solution to it. Unless the human race just decides to destroy itself, of course. Then the rest of the natural world would probably get along just fine without us.

    When I hear the latest crack-brained idea for solutions to our problems, such as this secession business, I can only assume that the human race’s ultimate goal is self-extinction.

    • http://www.facebook.com/michael.hill.501 Michael Hill

       Tell that to the first group of American secessionists–Washington, Jefferson, Henry, et al

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Pat-Hines/555238048 Pat Hines

       Southern secession is about nationhood and culture.  The United States is not a nation and has never been a nation.

      The south is a nation and always has been.

      That so many of you don’t know that is yet further proof of our uniqueness and your lack of understanding.

      Thing is, we don’t require or need anyone’s understanding.

      We are seceding, and the United States government is powerless to stop us.

      • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

         Have fun!

  • DeWayne_Jones

    I believe that it’s possible, with the couple hundred billion the state sends in taxes. Just because Texas becomes its own republic does not mean Mexico would suddenly attack; especially if peaceful secession is achieved, meaning America would be an ally. This nation would be more strict on immigration and illegals, as well as having a more concentrated area to fight their “war on drugs.” A lot of the secessionists include veterans and (as someone stated before) a majority of the US military is based in the south. Texas would not be sending troops overseas to fight in wars unless it was required to do so. If this all happened then the United States would pretty much instantly have a Democratic majority, and be able to begin their higher taxes on all the upper income as well as corporations. I personally believe that a lot of business would move to be based in Texas in order to escape having to pay so much money to the Fed. I don’t see much of Texas wanting to stay with the Union county by county or whatever, but I do see a mass exodus of democrats/progressives as well as immigrants who realize that they would be labeled as illegal by this new government. If anything I would worry about the neighboring red states wanting to join them if it did actually happen. I don’t believe this is possible within the next couple of years, but maybe eventually. Definitely not with Perry. The thing to keep in mind here is that the Texas Nationalist Movement has been attempting this for decades, just not the last few weeks (but they are definitely being fueled now by those who believe their country is changing). 

  • DeWayne_Jones

    I believe that it’s possible, with the couple hundred billion the state sends in taxes. Just because Texas becomes its own republic does not mean Mexico would suddenly attack; especially if peaceful secession is achieved, meaning America would be an ally. This nation would be more strict on immigration and illegals, as well as having a more concentrated area to fight their “war on drugs.” A lot of the secessionists include veterans and (as someone stated before) a majority of the US military is based in the south. Texas would not be sending troops overseas to fight in wars unless it was required to do so. If this all happened then the United States would pretty much instantly have a Democratic majority, and be able to begin their higher taxes on all the upper income as well as corporations. I personally believe that a lot of business would move to be based in Texas in order to escape having to pay so much money to the Fed. I don’t see much of Texas wanting to stay with the Union county by county or whatever, but I do see a mass exodus of democrats/progressives as well as immigrants who realize that they would be labeled as illegal by this new government. If anything I would worry about the neighboring red states wanting to join them if it did actually happen. I don’t believe this is possible within the next couple of years, but maybe eventually. Definitely not with Perry. The thing to keep in mind here is that the Texas Nationalist Movement has been attempting this for decades, just not the last few weeks (but they are definitely being fueled now by those who believe their country is changing). 

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Pat-Hines/555238048 Pat Hines

       A mass exodus of progressive/fascists.  Now that’s a vision that would be great when it happens.

      • jefe68

        progressive/fascists? Wow. Your command of ideologies is astonishing.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Pat-Hines/555238048 Pat Hines

           Progressives are the logical heirs to the fascists of the 1920s and 1930s.  If you didn’t receive that knowledge in what passed for your education, that’s not my fault.  Ask for a refund.

          • jefe68

            Really? So all those progressive folks who joined up to fight Franco in the 30′s were on the wrong side.

            Who would have known.   

          • Ray in VT

            The progressives are most certainly not “the logical heir to the fascists of the 1920s and 1930s”.  Fascism was a socially conservative ideology that closely aligned political and business interests, and the progressive movement is certainly not that.  I shudder to think what you have received as education, as I would call it poor if it lead you to that conclusion.

          • Coastghost

            As I’ve commended to jefe’s attention at least once, so I commend to your attention Hayek’s oft-cited/little read ROAD TO SERFDOM, esp. as key a chapter as number XII, “The Socialist Roots of Naziism”. (Hayek is much more expansive on the intellectual history of German socialism than on that of, say, Italian socialism, but Mussolini, it doesn’t take much investigating to discover, was a staunch socialist whose “conversion” to fascism hardly required a wholesale ideological makeover. Fascism and socialism were antagonists not because they were so different ideologically, but because they were so much alike, sharing much of the same history and having many of the same political goals (totalitarian), vying for the mantle of history. The same story, mutatis mutandis, is told in Orwell’s HOMAGE TO CATALONIA: socialists with ties to Stalin’s Russia were actively killing Spanish Trotskyites, which is exactly what led to Orwell’s reappraisal of socialism through the 1940s. (and to respond to jefe’s comment just below: no, not all “progressives” fighting Franco were on “the right side”: socialists busy killing other socialists could not all be on the side of the angels, hunh?) 

          • Ray in VT

            I assume that you are Greyman, correct?  If so, then I did read that chapter of the Road to Serfdom this summer, and I found it quick lacking when it came to historical interpretation.  Socialists and Fascists were both what one might call “statist” ideologies, as opposed to a libertarian, laissez-faire approach, but I, and I think that the historical community, can firmly and accurately state that these two ideologies were not fundamentally the same.  One sought state ownership of property, while the other left it in private hands, and fascism used the power of the state to advance conservative social policies and goals.  A switch from one extreme ideology is not uncommon in my experience, but I think that that often speaks more to the mindset of the individual rather than the compatability of the ideologies.  Also, if you are attempting to equate the American Progressive tradition with Soviet Marxism, then that is, I think, also highly historically inaccurate.  I also don’t think that’s it all historically uncommon for different branches of groups to war with each other over ideological points.  Sunni and shiite, Protestant and Catholic, the French Revolution executing some of it’s own.  I don’t think that it says anything particular about Spanish socialists that could not be said about just about any other radical group.

          • Coastghost

            (Yes, Ray, Disqus required me to change my name to stay in the game.) Glad to hear you read Hayek, sorry to hear you made no more of his sound analysis. The only thing I might fault you for in your reply is your assertion that fascism championed “conservative social policies and goals” (I would have gone along with “nationalist social policies and goals”: conservatives are no more obliged to be practicing nationalists than progressives are obliged to be practicing Marxists). I’m perhaps less interested in discovering American progressives’ ideological links to Soviet or Marxist socialism than you seem to be in trying to tie “conservatism” to “fascism”: fascism clearly has/had socialist ideological roots.

          • Ray in VT

            I’m not attempting to make a connection between American conservatives and fascism.  There have been fascists here, and they were quite active in the 1930s, but real fascism doesn’t really exist any more, at least not in it’s early 20th century manifestation.

            I found Hayek to be interesting, if way off base.  For instance, he basically said that England and France allowed fascism to rise in Germnay because they themselves were basically the same.  That’s just plain wrong.

            I would also defend my statement regarding fascism promoting conservative social policies and goals.  Let’s not confuse conservative and liberatarian here.  The fascist nations by and large sought to uphold conservative social practices, gender norms and social roles.  It was revolutionary in the sense that it sought to redefine the role of the state, but it was a state that promoted traditional norms.  Hayek distinguished between socialism, which he did not equate in that chapter with Marxism.  Marxism was sort of the liberal subset of totalitarianism, and fascism he labelled “conservative socialism”.  He didn’t say that fascism was liberal, and he was right.  Socially they weren’t. Fascism, like Marxism, was socialist in the sense that it was statist, not in the sense that it was liberal. One could certainly make the case that fascism was the modern outgrowth of the old absolutist monarchs, which long preceded modern socialism.

          • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

             Logical?  You sir, were mis-under-educated… or something like that.

        • 1Brett1

          This is the guy who is responsible for the Obama as the devil vs. Jesus photo…what did you expect?

    • jefe68

      The question remains how many of those military personal would be willing to leave the US. You sir are making some broad assumptions about a lot of service men and women.

      It’s not only your country by the way.

    • Thinkin5

       
      Excerpted from Alaska Dispatch: “To be sure, there are big problems to contend with. Yes, Texas
      taxpayers send $198 billion in income tax to Washington while the state
      receives only $33 billion in payments from Washington. But imagine the
      real consequences of an independent Texas: 15 major Army bases,
      including Fort Hood, gone. As part of a deal, won’t Washington want to
      be repaid for its massive infrastructure investments in Texas, such as
      the $250 million a year that Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport
      receives. The end of federal research dollars would shrink the Lone Star
      Republic’s edifices of higher education to a fraction of their current
      size and capability. And Texas could probably kiss goodbye any chance to
      land NASA’s next major rocket launch pad – not to mention the $3
      billion that NASA invests in Texas annually.”

  • TomK_in_Boston

    Suddenly, Worried and StillHere and maybe even Brandstead look like marvels of mental health :)

    • jefe68

      I like the one that is against the 14th Amendment as his basis for secession.

      • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

         But, that’s not racist…

    • Derick_Mickles

      Psychology is a pseudoscience. No, I’m serious. It is. It doesn’t meet the criteria to be considered a legitimate science. 

    • Derick_Mickles

      Psychology is a pseudoscience. No, I’m serious. It is. It doesn’t meet the criteria to be considered a legitimate science. 

    • Bruce94

      Yes, their paranoid, anti-government, conspiracy-theory rhetoric pales in comparison to the alternate reality embraced by some of the more delusional secessionists below.

  • hypocracy1

    Secession? Lets see how many signatures a petition receives to kick Texas out of the Union…

    • Derick_Mickles

      Hey bright bulb, one was put up. It failed, and a lot of Texans are sorry it did. Keep up! 

    • atticusfinchesq

      please do….don’t just talk the talk…..

  • Derick_Mickles

    If Texas Succession occurred a large part of the Military would immigrate to Texas and bring their Rifles, Tanks, Planes, and Boats with them. I’m sure all the “you can’t take that with you” talk would stop them. LOL! “Watch me! SIR!” 

    • Ray in VT

      I highly doubt that, but some might choose to cross the Rubicon and help end the Republic if they like.

      • Derick_Mickles

        Still it’s something to ponder isn’t it. Maybe Liberals and Northerners could start doing more of the heavy lifting in the defense of this nation. Make sure to sign up and request a Combat MOS. The military needs the manpower. 

        • Ray in VT

          Vermont has and will continue to give it’s last full measure in order to defend our nation.  Much of my grandfather’s generation died fighting fascism in Europe, and during these recent wars many of our sons and daughters have served in Iraq and Afghanistan.  If called upon I would do my duty, but as it is, I don’t think that Uncle Sam would like my balky knees and poor vision.  I’m not as young as I used to be.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

         I think the bridge over the Rubicon is papered with executive orders….which the “progressives” don’t seem to have an issue with unless it is GWB making the EOs….hypocrisy much???

        • Ray in VT

          Kind of like how we heard all through Clinton’s years about a balanced budget, and then a Republican was in the White House for 8 years, and the deficits didn’t matter.  Lo and behold, in 2009 deficits started to matter again, sometime right around the end of January of that year.

          There’s plenty of hypocrisy to go around, and I think that there is some solid ground for criticizing the current President regarding civil liberties and the War on Terror (that’s still going on, right?).

          You have a point on executive orders, and there’s certainly something to be concerned about regarding what has often been called “the Imperial Presidency”, and I think that conservatives were largely just as silent about it under President Bush as liberals are now under President Obama.

    • jefe68

      Except they don’t own those rifles, tanks, planes or ships.
      What you are advocating is treason. It’s also a military coup of sorts. You sound like someone who is playing way to many video games.

      • Derick_Mickles

        I think a Military Coup could happen in this nation, if it was deemed that the sitting government had abandoned the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Don’t worry, they won’t, and Texas isn’t leaving the Union. It would be devastating for the United States if that happened and all measures will be taken to ensure it doesn’t happen. This is why liberals yapping about Secession are like insignificant nats in the ear of Conservatives. We know where real power lay. In the oaths. Not the gum flapping. 

  • Derick_Mickles

    There’s Service, and then there is a Combat MOS, and those are the guys who are in actual possession of the equipment and expertise on how to use them. It’s OVERWHELMINGLY Southern, VERY Conservative, and not at all happy with the Obama Administration. 

    • jefe68

      Sounds like a threat. Sounds like a threat against the office of the Presidency.

      • Derick_Mickles

        Since it’s all a hypothetical discussion, it’s just another hypothesis isn’t it bright bulb! 

  • http://www.facebook.com/kyle.rose Kyle Rose

    This is not a conservative vs. liberal issue; it’s closer to being libertarian vs. statist, or local vs. central. But Tom of course kept trying to tie it back to conservatives and GOP supporters, who generally speaking are among the biggest supporters of a strong central government with a military that can bomb as many brown people as possible.

  • http://www.facebook.com/DrRobWilliams Rob Williams

    Don’t mess with…Vermont. We’re working on a Second Vermont Republic up here in New England – http://www.2vr.org. Free Vermont, and long live the UNtied States.

  • TheDailyBuzzherd

    Pffft … evidently this board can’t handle a response two pages hence.

    • http://www.facebook.com/gary.kay.7777 Gary Kay

      Your mistake was in assuming that the minds you were trying to change were rational.

  • JGC

    Remember the Alamo, and remember the wise words of our former President (and loyal Texan) George W. Bush:  “I am a  Uniter; not a Divider.”

  • JGC

    Remember the Alamo, and remember the wise words of our former President (and loyal Texan) George W. Bush:  “I am a  Uniter; not a Divider.”

  • TheDailyBuzzherd

    LoL … wrong place, Disqus.

  • TheDailyBuzzherd

    Wrong place. Again. Do I have to say this repeatedly? Geez …

  • 1Brett1

    Anybody seen some of these folks’ FaceBook pages? Here are some photos…Oh yeah, it’s not about White southern supremacy, bigotry, racism, religious intolerance…noooo 

    • Derick_Mickles

      Not one racist image there. 

      • Ray in VT

        Hmmm, the Stars and Bars, the flag of the Rebellion that sought to uphold slavery and the depiction the President as the devil.  I would say that the first clearly represents racism and the second could certainly fall under the label of religious intolerance.

        • Derick_Mickles

          That’s not a racist flag you goof! It does not represent racism, except to those who want it to represent racism, and nobody cares what they think! Good lord! 

          • Ray in VT

            The Stars and Bars is a symbol of a failed rebellion against the United States, and one that sought to uphold racial slavery.  I don’t care what people who fly it have to say about it.  That’s what it is.  If flew over armies which sought to maintain the institution of human bondage, and the League of the South is little, if at all, better than the Klan as far as I’m concerned.

          • imaginethis91991

            Hurrah for Vermont!  Tell it like it is!

            Sue in VT

          • Derick_Mickles

            States Rights vs. Slavery. You’re going there huh? It’s all one sided, and history isn’t written by the victors. LMAO! You’re about as obtuse as they come my friend. 

          • Ray in VT

            I will indeed, because we’ve pussyfooted around it for over a hundred years.

            You mean like the right of a state to decide which people are and are not human beings with rights?  That was a state right that they were fighting for.  They weren’t going to abide some Illinois liberal threatening their states rights and traditional culture.

          • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

            The KKK is domestic racist terrorists, pure and simple.  Guess what flag they used?

            Neil

        • Derick_Mickles

          The Flag of the Confederacy is a historical flag that many cherish because their families spilled blood for it. Guess what, they’re not all white people either! If you’re offended by it then fine, be offended. That’s on you buddy! 

          • Ray in VT

            I’m disgusted by it.  My ancestors fought for the Union, and that it is still flown in the great nation is a disgrace.  I would be ashamed if my ancestors had fought under it.

          • Derick_Mickles

            Mine rode with Hood, and owned no slaves. I’m VERY proud of them. They had conviction, and duty, and honor. 

          • Ray in VT

            Again, I wouldn’t be, but, then again, my ancestors fought for the Union and possibly to free the slaves.  Where is the honor in promoting, supporting or seeking to uphold this:

            “Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its
            foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that
            the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to
            the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.”

          • 1Brett1

            I’m disgusted by it too! It represents too much that is bad, yet a lot of southerners pretend they wave it to be patriotic or to celebrate heritage! (It’s not much different than waving a swastika and claiming it’s a native-American sun sign that means good luck…)

          • Derick_Mickles

            Well, you know what opinions are like! Now that nothing is settled, move along now person with an opinion that has no baring on anything at all! LOL! 

          • 1Brett1

            No, Mr. Rickles, it’s a Rebel flag, the war flag adopted by the Rebels because the Confederate flag looked too much like the Union flag and Confederate soldiers wanted something distinctly different. What it represents is purely a war against the Union. You are an ignorant pig, in my opinion.

          • Derick_Mickles

            You are a pseudo-intellectual jackass (the animal) in my opinion. 

          • TomK_in_Boston

            The flag of treason and oathbreaking.

          • http://www.facebook.com/david.a.mitchell.39 David A. Mitchell

            Sorry folks but the texas flag is red,white and blue with one star to the left,I would never consider flying any flag othe than the texas flag.

      • 1Brett1

        That’s because you’re a racist pig, in my opinion.

    • Derick_Mickles

      You don’t really know what racism is do you? You’r just soiling your pants to find out that the echo chamber you live in isn’t the real world. 

      • 1Brett1

        I live in the south…it’s not my echo chamber; it’s yours

        • Derick_Mickles

          Better move up north then. 

    • Thinkin5

       Sounds like they are so inbred with racism that they can’t see it. “Everybody thinks like we do here!” Not sure why they don’t like being called racists, since they defend that kind of thinking with great passion.

      • Derick_Mickles

        Not one racist image posted thus-far. Your mind is askew IMO. Then again, Democrats enacted Jim Crow laws and opposed the 1968 Civil Rights Bill, and now claim Republicans are “racist.” LMAO!!!

  • TheDailyBuzzherd

    “The United States is not a nation and has never been a nation.

    “The south is a nation and always has been.”

    Books. Ever read one.

     

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Palmetto-Patriot/1248758243 Palmetto Patriot

      Southerners are a unique ethnic/cultural group with a shared identity and history. US citizens as a whole do not have this. The US is a motley collection of people from all over the planet – not a real nation. It’s a disaster. We want to secede from the failure that is the USA. Then the Northeast, West Coast and Upper Mid-west can have all the socialism and Third World immigration they want.

  • http://www.facebook.com/gary.kay.7777 Gary Kay

    As I suggested earlier, a lot of people are really losing it. I suppose if Texas does secede, they will elect George Bush to be President (unless he decides to turn traitor) and declare war on Mexico. ROFL

  • 1Brett1

    Here are some more photos from the FaceBook pages of our guests:

    (the caption to the one with the gun pointed at the camera said, “tea bag this!”)

    • Derick_Mickles

      What part of a very large swath of the US Population has absolutely no problem with these images? They are not racist, threatening or anything other than free speech? Good LORD you’re grasping. You are just TOTALLY disconnected from the reality others live in. You’re beating your brains out to find things that nobody has any problem with! What’s the matter with you? 

      • 1Brett1

        They are free speech. They are also threatening. 

        You don’t have a problem with these images because you’re a racist, southern white supremacist pig, in my opinion.

      • 1Brett1

        They are free speech. They are also threatening. 

        You don’t have a problem with these images because you’re a racist, southern white supremacist pig, in my opinion.

        • Derick_Mickles

          They are threatening only in YOUR mind. I’m not responsible for that. I’m none of those things you say I am. You’re ridiculous and live in a dream world in my opinion. 

          The guy from Texas was right. The Civil War settled nothing. One side won, and one side lost, but there was no change of heart. That’s the thing about warfare. It only decides who’s left, not who was right or wrong. 

          • 1Brett1

            So, you’re saying the slave-owning white men from the south during the  mid-19th century were right?

          • Derick_Mickles

            Nope!

          • jefe68

            Coward. Man up already.

          • jefe68

            That’s the thing about warfare. It only decides who’s left, not who was right or wrong.

            You sound like some character from a crappy war movie.

  • 1Brett1

    This FaceBook image from one of today’s commenters on this forum had this caption: 

    “Feminists- this is the future of the European women you admire so much. This is your future without real men to defend you.”

    All of the photos I’ve displayed today are from the FB pages of today’s pro-secessionist forum quests.

    • Derick_Mickles

      You are aware than unprovoked attacks on Europeans by Muslim’s in Europe have happened right? Why wouldn’t someone who’s worried about that post something like that? Also, this is EUROPE! Your wacko in my opinion. 

    • Derick_Mickles

      You are aware than unprovoked attacks on Europeans by Muslim’s in Europe have happened right? Why wouldn’t someone who’s worried about that post something like that? Also, this is EUROPE! Your wacko in my opinion. 

      • 1Brett1

        Figures the sexist, anti-feminist sentiments wouldn’t register to you; you’re a sexist pig in my opinion. 

        • Derick_Mickles

          Pretty obvious neither of us really care about one another’s opinions. LOL! 

          • 1Brett1

            Hey, you didn’t have to respond to my initial comment, which wasn’t related to you, but you made it about you…that’s on you, buddy

          • Derick_Mickles

            Maybe you secretly wanted it to be about me. I see how you are! I know what you’re REALLY thinking Brett! Bigot! :) 

  • 1Brett1

    “Southerners are a unique ethnic/cultural group with a shared identity and history. US citizens as a whole do not have this. The US is a motley collection of people from all over the planet – not a real nation.” -On Point forum commenter

    The people who generate such nonsense that is replete with separatist, segregationist, bigoted junkyard philosophy are idiots.

    • Derick_Mickles

      The only people here I see being openly bigoted here today is YOU and your Liberal troll buddies. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

         I would say 1brat1 is also a misogynist and horrible with names as a show of his disrespect for a woman’s opinion.

        • 1Brett1

          You’ve been making fun of my name all day long. I don’t dislike your opinion because you’re a woman; I dislike your opinion because you’re an ignoramous

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

             BWWWAAAAAhahahahahaha you don’t like my opinion because it is not YOUR opinion….cause your feelings based, pseudo intellectualism has been challenged and found flawed and historically unsupportable, as socialism always FAILS. 

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

             1brat got spanked :)> You can dish it…but like every other snot nosed, pointy headed, pseudo intellectual you can’t handle your beliefs being challenged and defend your beliefs with logic and history.

  • Derick_Mickles

    Liberals judge a man by his words. Southerners by his actions. One is impossible to really understand. The other is crystal clear. That’s why you’re supposed to be innocent until proven guilty in the United States, but the Liberals posting here don’t like America it would seem. Utter tripe being posted by them today. 

    • 1Brett1

      It is impossible for you to understand words? Yeah, your actions bear that out…

      • Derick_Mickles

        I’m sorry Brett, the big kids are talking speaking about the nature of linguistics. Run along now, boy! :) 

        • 1Brett1

          If you are thinking your comment pertained to the nature of linguistics, then you should probably continue with that GED you never got! ;-)

    • PithHelmut

      Many of the actions of Southerners are not exactly exemplary. Please don’t use that tired old snipe that your opponents in this argument mustn’t like America. Try staying onpoint!

    • jefe68

      Hyperbole alert!

  • http://www.facebook.com/DIANE.L.COLLINS Diane Collins

    Let ‘em go…and if they want their almight Dallas Cowboys to play in the NFL, tax them in a big way.

  • 1Brett1

    “Southern secession is about nationhood and culture.  The United States is not a nation and has never been a nation.The south is a nation and always has been.
    That so many of you don’t know that is yet further proof of our uniqueness and your lack of understanding.
    Thing is, we don’t require or need anyone’s understanding.
    We are seceding, and the United States government is powerless to stop us.”

    Ah, another comment from one of our secessionists…Sounds like they don’t want to “mix” with other cultures, and they see non-southern people as foreigners.

  • Patrick_Healey

    Why doesn’t the US just allow Puerto Rico in as a State and let Texas go. I am sure the Feds won’t like it so they can’t tax the hell out of the oil, but the Texans would easily survive. They won’t have to change the flag too!

    • Derick_Mickles

      The loss of Houston Sea Port would devastate the US and Texas could jack oil prices through the roof. The US would come crawling to Texas asking to join the Republic of Texas within just a few years. 

      • Patrick_Healey

        Market forces would not allow that. The purchases of oil would just go elsewhere. Texas is big on oil, but not that big and it is certainly not dominating.

      • Ray in VT

        I’d rather join Canada than an independent Texas.

  • Derick_Mickles

    One thing is for sure! It’s not 1860 anymore. In fact almost every factor that allowed the Yankees to win is in Southern Land and control now. Washington must be quaking in it’s boots right now. LOL! 

    • Derick_Mickles

      What do you get from “Civil War II?” The capital moved to Waco, and a name change from The United States of America to The United States of Texas. That’s honestly about it. Economic POWERHOUSE comin’ through! Toot-Toot! :) 

  • hennorama

    Lots of new posters in here, many of whom have made literally dozens of comments.  This leads one to suppose 2 possibilities:

    1.  Many regular listeners who haven’t previously posted any comments are quite passionate about Texas secession, or

    2.  This topic was spread in advance via other websites and social media, and drew in lots of first-timers who are passionate about Texas secession.

    My money’s on #2.

    Interestingly, this is similar to how “the video” sparked such strong reactions in North Africa and the Middle East – being spread via social media, websites, smartphone (and broadcast on TV).  Now who knew people could get so riled up about something they feel strongly about?

    Advice to secession proponents – don’t try to breach any Federal buildings, as you might not care for the outcome.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

       So because we haven’t been here before and are passionate about defending freedom and liberty are you telling the good taxpayers who fund this radio program we have no say??? Texas isn’t Benghazi, we don’t kill innocent government employee’s for sport and it isn’t like the current leadership will send any back up to help them….

      • hennorama

        OK, well that didn’t take long.

        Out of curiosity – was my #2. supposition correct? Did you find your way here via some other site?

        Please post as much as you wish, and be as “passionate about defending freedom and liberty” as you see fit. My point is not about your posting, your right to post, or whatever, just that it seems that there are many ‘newbies” concerned about this topic. I merely am curious as to why and posited 2 suppositions.

        I also was NOT referring to Benghazi, but rather the breach of the U.S. Embassy in Cairo. Nice assumption there, though. I also made no references to the killing of anyone, in any way shape or form. Interesting how you went THERE so quickly.

        BTW – “the good taxpayers who fund this radio program” is quite a misnomer. NPR receives no direct Federal funding. “NPR competes for and receives grants from CPB and federal agencies, which total roughly $2-3 million annually.” This indirect grant funding amounts to less than 2% of NPR’s total revenue. Nice try, though.

        Sources:http://www.npr.org/about/aboutnpr/publicradiofinances.html#npr

        http://www.npr.org/about/aboutnpr/statements/fy2011/PIC%20NPR%20Inc%20990.pdf

        • 1Brett1

          I have to hand it to you, hennorama, you have more patience than I!

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1312294619 Laurie Hoover

           Where does the “no direct” grant monies come from??? Sheesh…you would try to slice a genome six ways if you thought it would make your point. I went there so quickly because it is one of the many FAILURES of the current administration….the Embassy in Cairo is breached??? What is your master doing about it??? Nothing….just like he did nothing to help his own appointed ambassadors….

          • hennorama

            Thank you for your response. Your use of punctuation is notable.

            To repeat my question, which you did not answer – Did you find your way here via some other site?

            As the topic is not Benghazi, I will politely withhold comment on the balance of your post.

            In an effort to better understand – is the point of your nearly 4 dozen posts over 12 hours that you think Texas secession is a good idea, and that it’s a good idea due to “the many FAILURES of the current administration”? Or some other reason(s)?

            Thank you again for your response.

        • Coastghost

          hennorama: your writing and/or thinking are as sloppy as ever. Up above, you alluded blankly to “the video” that “sparked such strong reactions in North Africa and the Middle East”. If in fact you were referring strictly to events in Cairo, you might have limited your comment to whatever strong reactions were elicited specifically in Egypt–but of course, you didn’t, you spread your semantic web across the Middle East and North Africa, so Laurie was fully justified in taking you to also mean Benghazi, Libya being a prominent North African nation (unless our State Dept. has a different take on this, too). When your writing is so poor that a reader can draw a plausible conclusion based on your imprecise prose, you can hardly fault her for the mistake YOU made in poorly expressing your view, but this gives you your chance to then backpedal and insist that wasn’t what you meant in the first place, which is what you did here, as you have done elsewhere. Someone could simply call your practice intellectual dishonesty. –as you repaired to straightaway with your misinformation concerning NPR and its relations to the CPB. Granted, these relations are not at all clear to the American public, since NPR studiously avoids dealing with the subject, and no other media outlets treat it regularly. It remains the case that the CPB IS funded at least in part directly by the Federal govt. (not terribly surprising, given that the CPB remains a non-profit corporation created by an act of Congress). In point of fact, for FY 2005, 17.3% of NPR funding came directly from the Federal govt. through the CPB, and 22% of NPR funding came through state and local tax sources. No idea where your “only $2-3 million” annual figure came from: your source certainly fails to account for the $69 million in direct annual grants to public radio stations, the $22.85 million in annual public radio programming grants, or the annual $7 million just for the Radio Program Fund. If the NPR sites you cite are also lying, well, all the more reason for CPB and NPR to face severe questioning regarding their funding. (Somehow, we NEVER hear NPR begging for complete independence from the CPB.)

          • hennorama

            Thank you for your response. I understand and respect your views. Your points are well taken.

            My comments were intended to compare the way this now-infamous video was indeed shared widely across the region prior to the Cairo Embassy breach, resulting in various strong reactions, with my statement of the possibility that the topic of Texas secession was also shared in advance, resulting in strong reactions “in here.”

            My use of the word “breach” was also a direct reference to Cairo.

            As to Public Radio (PR) financing (not NPR, specifically) your data is rather outdated. Citing the same sources using FY 2010 data, PR funding from the CPB was 11.4%, and 4.6% from Fed, State & Local government (16.0% total).

            NPR’s UNRESTRICTED funding from PR station programming fees and distribution services averaged 49% during FYs 2009-2011. One could then say that less than 8% of NPR’s unrestricted funding comes from CPB and FED/ST/LOC funding (49% of 16% = 7.84%). Again, from the NPR.org site:

            “Revenue Sources

            A large portion of NPR’s revenue comes from program fees and dues paid by our Member Stations and underwriting from corporate sponsors. Institutional foundation grants, gifts from major donors, and fees paid by users of the Public Radio Satellite System are also sources of revenue.

            A portion of the CPB’s annual grants to public radio stations flow to NPR through station programming fees (the loss of which would harm stations and weaken NPR). In addition, NPR competes for and receives grants from CPB and federal agencies, which total roughly $2-3 million annually. These funds may only be used for the purposes of the grant, and do not fund NPR’s general operations.”

            Source:http://www.npr.org/about/aboutnpr/publicradiofinances.html#npr

            Regardless, it’s clear that NPR does NOT receive all of its funding from governemnt sources, either directly or indirectly. So “the good taxpayers” do not “fund this radio program” making the other post a misnomer, as stated.

            Thank you again for your response.

    • Derick_Mickles

      Maybe there’s just a lot of people out there that have been silent for a long time while folks such as yourself fat-back slapped one another, and they’re just finally sick of your ____! Nah! Couldn’t be! It must be a conspiracy! 

    • 1Brett1

      Yeah, I raised this point earlier, and one of the new commenters said he was just here to support Miller. I suggested that their presence today doesn’t have anything to do with being fed up with the issues of our country. They’ve, ostensibly, been into secessionism for a decade, but we haven’t heard a peep out of them on here, ever. 

      This forum has been here for a decade, yet they come here today. They say they’ve been worried about the country and have wanted to secede for over a decade, but they’ve been quiet?! Just like the petitions to secede coincidentally occurred just after the election…I see a pattern and lots of disingenuousness.

      • Coastghost