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What’s Next For The GOP?

Republicans on what’s next for the GOP.  What stays the same, post-election?  What has to change?  We’ll hear the internal debate.

A supporter reacts to voting results displayed on a television screen during Republican presidential candidate and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney's election night rally, Tuesday, Nov. 6, 2012, in Boston. (AP)

A supporter reacts to voting results displayed on a television screen during Republican presidential candidate and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney’s election night rally, Tuesday, Nov. 6, 2012, in Boston. (AP)

Karl Rove couldn’t believe it. Couldn’t accept it on Election night. After all the billions and bitter critique of President Obama, Republicans had lost in their campaign to take back the White House.

And more than that. Lost ground in the Senate. Lost seats in the House. Lost on gay marriage. Lost the women’s vote. Lost Latinos. Lost the young. Lost nearly all the swing states. Lost touch, it seemed, with a bunch of the country.

Now it’s “what happened?” time in the GOP.

This hour, On Point: Republicans survey the 2012 election outcome and debate their party’s way ahead.

-Tom Ashbrook

Guests

David Frum, contributing editor at Newsweek and The Daily Beast and a CNN contributor. He is the author of eight books, including most recently the e-book Why Romney Lost. You can read an excerpt here.

Brent Bozell, founder and president of the Media Research Center.

Richard Viguerie, chairman of ConservativeHQ.com.

Reihan Salaam, columnist for The Daily, lead writer at The Agenda blog at National Review.

From Tom’s Reading List

National Review “For the party in general, however, the problem is hardly structural. It requires but a single policy change: Border fence plus amnesty. Yes, amnesty. Use the word. Shock and awe — full legal normalization (just short of citizenship) in return for full border enforcement.”

Weekly Standard “Liberal historians of American politics have long held, at least implicitly, a teleological view of our history. The assumption is that America is slowly moving toward a more “progressive” (read: statist) society, and the only thing the right can do is slow the movement. Conservatives cannot stop or reverse it–it is inexorable.”

Daily Beast “The right wing has always considered Obama feckless and incompetent. But looking at their campaigns and without any information about their backgrounds, who would you say is the feckless and incompetent executive? The right wing’s trope does not pass the smell test. It’s obviously wrong. It was obviously wrong immediately after the 2008 election; it’s even more obviously wrong today. If an extremely competent and successful American businessman like Romney could not build a campaign infrastructure anywhere near as modern and efficient as that created by Obama, how could Obama qualify as a feckless and incompetent executive?”

Video

Check out this video from the Heritage Foundation released last week.

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  • Mike_Card

    First step, heed Lindsay Graham:  “We’re running out of angry old white men.”

    I don’t hate conservatives; conservatives serve an essential voice in a capitalist democracy.  However, I think it is really stupid for GOP operatives to think they can build a national-class political party out of religious nuts, closet KKK goof-balls, and neo-luddites.

    These people have managed to drive me out of the GOP, after having been registered since 1968.

    • JGC

      I saw a comment on another forum:

      no MATH + no SCIENCE = you’re HISTORY

      This speaks to our current Republican party on a number of levels – the increasing destruction from weather related disasters as they deny any possibility of climate change;  the totally reprehensible understanding of human biology by the Tea Party candidates, who believe, for example, that women can “shut that thing down” if they are raped by someone for whom they do not have true sexual desire; the people who led the Republican electorate into Fail Mode with their shrill promotion of their false polling data.   

      • Wm_James_from_Missouri

        You are so right ! I think your little equation will soon apply to the Democrats as well.

        • JGC

          I saw the equation on Politico’s Dylan Byers media blog, a comment from Jack Dawson, just to give it its proper attribute. 

      • Gregg Smith

        It’s really not to credible to paint the Republican party as if Aiken represents them. Could he have been thrown under the bus any faster? He was not elected. The Tea Party is about smaller government, more freedom  and less spending. It never has been about social issues. And Aiken is just a nut. We had Hank Johnson worry that Guam might tip over. Sheila Jackson Lee asked if the mars rover could snap a shot of Armstrong’s flag. Does anyone say their idiocy represents all Democrats? And they WERE elected. 

        • JGC

          You are absolutely 100% right that the Republican Party did what they could to distance themselves from Akin. But his is just one voice of many in the far religious right that has little interest in science and data as a way of rationally explaining the world around us.  If Lee and Johnson said things like that about Guam and Armstrong’s flag on Mars, those are dumb things to say, but I don’t see those statements as reflecting a policy, in contrast to the pathway that the Akin/Mourdoch types would like to take us, if they got a hold of the steering wheel. 

          • 1Brett1

            AND, the “distancing themselves” part was political machination than anything…

        • Don_B1

          When Todd Akin and Paul Ryan cosponsor a widely supported bill that would make all abortions a crime with language that captures Akin’s term of “legitimate” rape, and that bill gains significant support from the whole Republican caucus, it DOES represent widespread Republican thinking.

          Mitt Romney selected Ryan as V.P. candidate and DIDN’T know Ryan’s position? That is simply not credible or you are admitting that Romney was unqualified to be president.

          (Romney WAS unqualified as demonstrated in one of many ways by the way he was rolled by the “get out the vote consultants” he hired and listened to.)

          The WHOLE Republican Party, particularly the Tea division, is FULL of nuts and hacks, from Allen West of Florida to Michelle Bachman of Minnesota to Darrel Issa of California.

    • Prairie_W

       Mike:  I think the first, worst mistake we all made was to allow them to call themselves “conservatives.”  There may be a few genuine conservatives held captive by the party, but the GOP has become a radical right party, low in intelligence, high in canniness; low in the moral order, strident in its condemnation of all who don’t agree with them.  The roots of their radicalism have been clear since Goldwater, but they were there all along.

      Real conservatives, as they once were, were more like partners of liberals — willing members of a system that guarantees respect for all opinions.  Neither right nor left radicals are willing to grant that. 

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        Prairie, what do you mean “We”?

        As a liberal, the fight over the meaning of “conservative” is a “they” fight, not a “we” fight.

        They’re having a brawl in a locked room, and I say all we (journos, left-wingers, Democrats, folks who like media crit) should do is listen to the faction that comes out of that room alive.

        (Counter that: Jim Webb, a used-to-be-Republican whom the GOP left, was a guy who looked at the problems with the “American imprisonment industry” and gave a great speech on it. That was not a reaction to something someone else did. It was not a politically safe thing to do. But he saw a problem with how the government was doing something, and at long last couldn’t let it go by unremarked.)

        • Prairie_W

          Nice point about Jim Webb.  But I’m not convinced by your hope for a nice outcome after a brawl.  I tend to think the right has decided that everything depends on its winning — a form of totalitarianism that has no place in a democracy. Brawls just create long-term resentments.

          Also, I don’t think there are simply liberals and conservatives.  Rather, there are many Americans who are a mix of the two.  That’s healthy. We change as we age, as we travel, as we learn new skills or meet new people. Where things get unhealthy is when one faction in either group sees this as apostasy.

          “Either/or” is no way to live a life — no more than it’s a way of having a political system that’s fair to all.

          I love the Federalist Papers. 

  • sk8sonh2o

    What’s next is a leadership vacuum in the GOP. All of the same professional trolls will be vying for the spotlight, egged on by the political entertainment complex and chronic denialism. A split will emerge, like the split among right- and left-leaning Catholics: 50% of Catholics voted for Obama. The GOP will not win the Presidency again until a great leader emerges, and she will probably be a moderate.

    • Don_B1

      I am assuming that by “political entertainment complex” you mean the MainStream Media, which loves the conflict and process over discussion of the real issues; it is truly a major reason for the current condition of this country.

      The ignorance of the public is unavoidable as the immediate cause, but the lack of real discussion of what it would take to get a well-informed electorate falls to the MSM in that it fails to get that information out.

      As an example, in last night’s “60 Minutes” David McCullough told of talking with a young female student after giving a talk at a midwestern college, and hearing her say that she had never realized that the original 13 states of the United States of America were ALL on the East Coast, on the Atlantic Ocean. McCullough was still just reeling from the implications of what that means for American education. McCullough did NOT blame the student, he blamed things from families not eating meals together, where information could pass from one generation to another to the schools not making history (and science, etc.) interesting to young people today.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        I’ll say “political entertainment complex” is two parts.

        One is sorta like one of the ESPN talking head shows, loving the conflict and horseraciness (as you mentioned).

        But let’s not forget the other, the conservative complex, who reminds me of the late Johnny Most providing commentary during Celtics broadcasts: Unreliable narration of the facts at hand designed to make the listeners think that the other team was punching defenseless Celtics with brass knuckles.

  • Andrew_MN

    They can start by actually embracing instead of shunning Libertarians. Having enthusiastic, organized supporters goes a long way. 

  • librarylady123

    I am a white, church-going, college-educated, married-mother-of-two, 43-year-old woman and the GOP has never, ever wanted my vote since I’ve been a voter.  I don’t see any way that they can earn it until they aren’t against my friends, family, and neighbors of all colors, creeds, and sexual orientation.  I don’t think they will have any ideas worth listening to until they honor my dignity as a human being and that of my two girls.

    • Don_B1

      As a male, I have great difficulty imagining HOW ANY woman could vote for a Republican, particularly as the Republican have become a parliamentary party, where they all vote in lockstep in the direction chosen by the most radical rightwing members, Scott Brown the “exception” that proves the rule. I say that because he attempted to because he picked bills where his vote was meaningless to vote with the Democrats but was always on board (because Sen. McConnell could yank his chain) when required.

      The only reason that I can come up with for women voting Republican comes from a misunderstanding of economics, the macroeconomic branch, where it is shown that government economics does not work like the household and, while big deficits are undesirable, they are not more important than jobs for people.

      That real understanding comes from seeing that when your spending is my income and my spending is your income, when a big economic shock hits everyone, such that everyone realizes a need to save or pay down debt, when they ALL (or enough of them) try to save simultaneously, all that happens is that EVERYONE’s income is REDUCED, making saving harder or even impossible (at least for many).

      In the early 1930s, the economist Irving Fisher commented that in an economy, when everyone tries to save simultaneously, all that happens is less saving and the result is debt increases. That is basically what is happening across Europe today and in the U.K. in particular.

      But this is not taught in many places today because the current economic conditions have not existed since the late 1920s into the 1930s. The current 2000s to 2012 period mimics that period in too many ways. The exit is the government spending, which in 1939 to 1941 was justified by preparations for war; the country has not agreed on a justification now, though climate change will turn out to be a deeper, bigger threat than the Axis powers were then.

      • Potter

        This is what Krugman has been saying over and over again– 

  • http://www.facebook.com/wendell.rogers.94 Wendell Rogers

    I also really wish the GOP would move in a libertarian direction. Many “liberals” claim the GOP should drop the “extremists” and just move to the center. But a party can’t just stand for moderation. A coherent political philosophy needs principles, but they must be the right ones! For too long the message of economic freedom has carried the baggage of social conservatism, and empire abroad, but most importantly, it has in realty, only been a veil for corporatism.  

    The GOP does not need to concede the economic freedom argument, they need to actually make it, and implement it. True economic freedom would, at first, be just as if not more bitter a medicine for Wall Street as main street.

    Combine that message with social freedom, and open boarders, and the GOP could really mix things up and enter the 21st century.

    • Michiganjf

      Good luck with that!

      75% of the modern GOP’s platform and legislative record is about butting into peoples’ personal lives.

      Get rid of the evangelicals, all the anti-choice zealots, the homophobes, the racists, the anti-drug hypocrites and fanatics, and various and sundry OTHER “social superiority” mutants in the party, and you might have THE BEGINNINGS of a worthwhile, “reformed” GOP.

      Like I say… Good luck with that!

      … no really… I wish you luck!

      • DrewInGeorgia

        “Get rid of…”

        We both know there would be nobody left to inhabit the party. I too wish Wendell Rogers the best of luck, they’re certainly going to need it.

    • AC

      there happens to be a whole bunch of people that would prefer a thoughtful, moderate philosophy in government.

      • Don_B1

        Certainly, someone to restrain profligate spending, unnecessary wars, etc. has a role to play. It can be demonstrated that the current Republican Party has not done that and is unlikely to ever do it. What parties do is direct the actions of government and its spending to different sectors of the citizenry.

        1) It is not “a thoughtful, moderate philosophy” to ignore existential threats like climate change.

        2) it is not “a thoughtful, moderate philosophy” to ignore the fact that government spending is the quickest way to pull an economy out of a Liquidity Trap, where those with cash refuse to invest/spend that cash, which would create jobs and demand for goods, because they cannot see the return on the investment quick enough to justify doing it.

        3) It is not “a thoughtful, moderate philosophy” to ignore the needs of the general populace for affordable health care with acceptance only of “market forces.” It has been shown (Tobin, 1965?) that free market forces will NOT control health costs, but for ideological reasons (small, limited government). But a healthy workforce is critical to having a strong middle class and a strong economy.

        It can be demonstrated that the Democratic Party comes much closer to that ideal of a thoughtful, moderate philosophy, where the government DOES step in to help the whole population, which generally means those with less income and wealth, obtain together what they cannot do by themselves.

        • 1Brett1

          Sorry, Don, they’ll only let me hit the “like” button for your comment once!

      • Wm_James_from_Missouri

        How are you ac ? I thought someone like you might be interested in this show at Radio Boston. It’s called : “How Synthetic Biology Will Reinvent The World”
        This fits in well with the Singularity Movement. This show could use people like Tom Ashbrooks’ listeners, to log some comments. They have none, today !

        At:

        http://radioboston.wbur.org/2012/11/12/syntheic-biology

        • AC

          sorry but i’m on an emergency job in SC….just seeing this….maybe next time??

  • DrewInGeorgia

    “What’s next for the GOP?”

  • JGC

    There is a whole crop of voters not at all beholden to any religious leanings- who wants to speak for them?  These might be people who tend toward the Libertarian faction.  

  • Wm_James_from_Missouri

    The Republicans need to run a Japanese American woman for President, that is pro Super Technology and that could care less about dogma and false doctrine. If they were really hip they would run a Japanese American Human like Android ! If you want the job done right, you had better get something other than a human !

     
    _http://wordsinjapanese.com/japanese-actroid-robot-latest-human-robots.php

  • northeaster17

    I think GOP should keep doing what they are doing. They’re doing a heck of a job.

    • MadMarkTheCodeWarrior

      Never stand in the way of an enemy when they are busy destroying themselves.

  • jefe68

    If an extremely competent and successful American businessman like Romney could not build a campaign infrastructure anywhere near as modern and efficient as that created by Obama, how could Obama qualify as a feckless and incompetent executive?”

    This is from the the above comment form the Daily Beast.
    It sums up part of what is going wrong with the GOP in terms of narratives. The GOP is making up narratives that are nothing short of being fantasies. Look at any of the comments on this very forum on any given day when the subject is about politics and President Obama in particular, and you get a good sense of how that GOP narrative is being played out. The thing is they are very good at it. I mean I was even believing that Obama might lose at one point. Then I started to pay close attention to Nate Silver’ blog 538 and stopped worrying. 

    In a word, Allen West is a good representation of what’s wrong with the GOP. All the votes are counted and he lost. Yet he still wont concede. Look no further than this kind of behavior to see what’s wrong with the GOP.

    That Heritage Foundation video is also another prime example of the narrative being used by the GOP and the amazing thing is it just failed and yet here they are doubling down on this what jsut lost them the White House. Amazing.

    Rachel Maddow sums it up pretty well:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMLcbTTdBGQ

    • Gregg Smith

      I take it you were appalled by Al Franken or Algore’s refusal to concede.

      Maybe Republicans should turn to blogs like this or Rachel Maddow for guidance. 

      • keltcrusader

        Umm, Greeg, Al Franken won – it was his republican opponent, Norm Coleman, that couldn’t accept defeat, sued, & lost, thus delaying Al’s seating in Congress for months. 

        • 1Brett1

          Wait just a darn-tootin’ minute, there, keltcrusader, Gregg can’t build a tit-for-tat argument on facts, for chrissakes!

          • keltcrusader

            LOL

      • jefe68

        Gregg are you really this obtuse or is it that you can’t parse the nuances of political situations.
        Al Gore did concede when it was clear he lost or as some on the left thing had the election stolen by the SCOTUS. Al Franken won fair and square.

        Allen West has lost, he’s now behind by over 1400 or more votes. The man is a disgrace. By the way you do know he was brought up on article 32 hearing or a  court martial, and somehow was able to get an article 15. Lucky him.

  • jefe68

    I also think as a nation that we are heading for a schism.
    Mitt Romney did get 48% of the popular vote and almost half this nation does support the ideology of the GOP. I do feel that number will go down in the next decade, but for the next 4 years this schism is what the will be the at the center of Congress.
    Again I look at that Heritage Foundation video and rest my case.

    http://robertreich.org/post/35070262414

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joshua-Hendrickson/1652586055 Joshua Hendrickson

      Yeah, that Heritage “war” video (saw it on Moyers) is both scary and stupid in ways I associate with pure mindless nationalism (even fascism).  The reactionaries are ruthless; I hate to imagine what they’ll resort to to wintheir “war.”

  • Gregg Smith

    The base didn’t show up for McCain and Romney got millions less votes than McCain. The base stayed home. That was not because the message wasn’t “moderate” enough.

    • Shag_Wevera

      Here here!  Veer right in 2016!

    • Gary Trees

      You know, the base might just be dying off faster than you realize.  When the next election comes along, the issue might not be that they stayed home, it might be that they just don’t exist anymore.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joshua-Hendrickson/1652586055 Joshua Hendrickson

      The base stayed home because Romney wasn’t conservative enough?  They willingly threw the election to a “muslim socialist” because Mitt wasn’t pure?

      It is to laugh.

  • ToyYoda

    Didn’t we discuss this at lengths last Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday?  Haven’t we had enough of politics?  Are we all gluttons for punishment?  Can’t we talk about other issues?  For instance, what will the looming fiscal problems mean to healthcare, etc.  Or maybe the newly formed opposition in Syria?  Or heck, we can talk about Korean Pop.  Anything, but politics!!!

    • DrewInGeorgia

      I don’t have any problem with Politics being the subject matter, I do enjoy a divergence from political coverage now and then though. If you need a break why not leave the radio off and the web browser closed? That’s what I do when I get that ‘enough is enough’ feeling.

      I’d really like to see a show done on Criminal Identity Theft. I think it’s been well over five years since On Point discussed ID theft and, if memory serves, that show only covered the financial fraud side of the issue.

    • JGC

      There is a program about America’s veterans this morning on Diane Rehm.  Definitely appropriate topic for today.

      • DrewInGeorgia

        I love Diane Rehm, she rocks!

  • MadMarkTheCodeWarrior

    The GOP has become the Party of Hate. The party of anti-science, anti-education, anti-woman’s rights, anti-gay, anti-minorities, anti-unions, anti-teachers, anti-teacher’s unions, anti-non-white-voter became the party of ignorance. They made a lot of friends along the way.

    Republicans tried to blame everyone but their own economic policies for the 2007 economic disaster and slow recovery from it. The GOP even held the country economic hostage in summer of 2011 and further slowed our recovery and cost tax payers billions in their long game to make the Democrats loose in this election.

    Now even conservative pundits are questioning the benefit of employing such vitriolic ignoramuses as Limbaugh, Palin, Hannity and Coulter to systematically promote ignorance, fear, anger and hatred to unite the unaffiliated middle with their party faithful against the evil, socialist, communist, un-American liberal Democratic  party.

    Alas GOP is still holding on tenaciously to their economic  mythology and pedaling the thought that they can lower taxes on the wealthy, increase defense spending and balance the budget without eviscerating ‘America’ and promoting open revolt.

    If you’re not willing to promote solutions based upon facts, then you shouldn’t deign to govern. I think Sandy and Bloomberg’s “It’s Global Warming, Stupid.” headline drove that home.

    • Denis

      It is interesting that in your first paragraph you list all of the anti-things. This is what comes to mind when you mention the Republican Party. Where are the pro themes?

  • Gregg Smith

    The real question for me is will the “ends justify the means by any means necessary” tactics used by Democrats destroy everything.

    • DrewInGeorgia

      lmao

      Good morning General G!

    • William

      Victor Davis Hanson had a good article on the election results. I wish Tom would have him on at some point in the future.

      http://www.victorhanson.com/

    • jefe68

      And yet the majority of Americans are voting them into power while the GOP’s message is losing ground.

      This is comment is a great example of how some folks on the right live in a fantasy world defined by false narratives made up by the GOP and the likes of Rush Limbaugh.

  • Yar

    The GOP, they call themselves the party of Lincoln, they are the party of lies.  The current republican party was and still is a institution of slavery.  Currently we have economic slavery without access to healthcare.  What has changed in 150 years?  The demographics of our country for one. We must address slavery inherent in undocumented immigration.  12 million economic slaves, more than actual slaves before the end of the civil war. 
    Yes, this hour should be about slavery in America today.  Start with the 47 percent, our sweat built industry, brag all you want about engineering, but without someone to plant the crops, gather the harvest, mine the energy, or turn ore into iron, and iron into products, your shining cities on the hill would still be empty.  How many slaves are in the world today?  Who is in control of slavery in America? It is the 1 percent, they call themselves job creators. They are the party of lies.

    • DrewInGeorgia

      I see the economic slavery you mention more as an almost unavoidable by-product of Capitalism than a result of recent GOP exploits. Certainly they deserve their fair share of the blame but then so does the Democratic Party, and so do we for our voluntary submission. Capitalism would work perfectly if we could remove human nature from the equation. I do agree however that the Republican Party has become a party of lies.

  • ttajtt

    ran R. Reagan’s then plan in the ground with the same bad plan over and over.  NO green tea still or OPEN health plan, aim for only the money, no nation of we in the republican the people.   Hollywood style, good looks, love money, flamboyant, war profits.

    Thank Your Veteran, 

    its what make$ the de$k red republican war party happy.         

    third party from where, same people, same founders f-ing with us.  how about six – five – four parties, one of each in the “final” proof of pick.  all equal tv/news time… political correctiveness of course.  

  • Potter

    Frum asks Yet if we know that extremism is dangerous, why do we see so much of it?

    It’s entertainment.. the Republican party can thank Limbaugh, Hannity, and other right wing talk show personalities, for their loss too. It may be entertaining but it’s also revealing. The majority do not want this vision of America.

    • anamaria23

      Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter Fox et al have cheapened the discourse of this nation.  Pathological in their worldview.  If  there were no Obama, no Clinton, no Democrats, they would be hating someone else.  It is what makes their world go round.

      • Gregg Smith

        You have no idea what you’re talking about Anamaria. It’s about love not hate. If you want hate then peruse these comments.

        • anamaria23

          If the right wing media is about love, my whole life has been a delusion and for that matter so was Jesus’. 

          • Gary Trees

            It’s not surprising that Mr. Murdock’s minions represent themselves in such a negative way.  Around the world, Murdock is largely regarded as a tabloid runner and he has found a healthy following in the naive, scandal and sensation hungry of the United States ignorencia.

            Not to seems as if I am promoting foil hat theories, but does anyone else think that it’s strange that a British based news mogul heads an American focused news company and that same news company is the main insturment of descent in today’s media atmosphere? Maybe a little bit of subversive payback to the colonies?

          • DrewInGeorgia

            “Maybe a little bit of subversive payback to the colonies?”

            Nah, I’m pretty sure it’s just business. Gotta do what’s most profitable right?

          • Gary Trees

            Not saying I believe it; just postulating.  You must admit that the irony is palpable.

          • Don_B1

            By Gregg’s view of the world, where everything is upside down from its position in reality, he just agreed with you that Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, and don’t forget Beck (just because he got canned by Fox) have cheapened the discourse. I would actually say they have done more than cheapen the discourse: they have distorted it much as Gantry did religion. But then politics for Gregg and the radical right is a matter of faith in ideology rather than working with empirical data.

            Note that Glenn Beck supposedly made $26 million so far this year with his own “network,” so he has kept a big following.

            Anytime Gregg feels it worthwhile to comment to oppose your statements, it is usually because he feels the need to get an opposing view to something that is a winning argument. Over 90% of the time his argument actually reinforces your point because it is so ridiculous, easily seen through.

        • jefe68

          Please spare the hyperbole.
          By the way President Obama won over 50% of the popular vote as well as a huge margin in the electoral vote. The right, and in particular the extremist conservationism you seem to support, is waning.

          The number is going down and has been since GW Bush won his second term.

          If Rush Limbaugh is about love, and that’s what you’re saying here, then I would be curious what Limbbaugh’ and your version of hate is.

    • Gregg Smith

      No one hates half the country. 

    • JGC

      “Republicans have been fleeced and exploited and lied to by a conservative entertainment complex.”  - David Frum

  • Potter

    Frum writes:  Health care now consumes one quarter of all federal dollars, rapidly rising toward one third—and that’s without considering the costs of Obamacare.

    My understanding is that Obamacare is going to SAVE money.

    • DrJoani

      GOP “figureheads” love to pick out ONE cause: Frum pretends to be open-minded, (writes for defunct Newsqueek after all) but his figures fly in face of reality. This Obamacare, which I support whole-heartedly, will take time to assess but as long as private health insuranc companies have their say and  any controlling influence in it there may not be any savings because their intent is only one : profits.

      Vigary? couldn’t Tom get fewer loonies on the program?
      Those people—and I do dislike generalizing but here it’s appropriate— remain so out of touch if not in denial .

  • Potter

    Frum writes: Those who seem to despise half of Amer­ica will never be trusted to govern any of it. Those who cherish only the country’s past will not be entrusted with its future.  

    Good luck- you have a lot of house cleaning to do.

  • ttajtt

    Yes, 
    Sprite-Ghost-soul catcher act in entrainment, when we want! we do what we see, brain learn from, copy, mimic, taught, society, AKA freedom of speech (sight) seen, in one eye, out the other heard for a lifetime of what its worth.  

  • ChevSm

    I’m with the GOP when it comes to small government & fiscal responsibility but their ridiculous stance on climate change, gay marriage, abortion and immigration makes it very difficult for me to support them. 

    • Fiscally_Responsible

      As unpopular as opposition to abortion and gay marriage may be given the new demographics, people who take a stand against abortion (they see it as murder and don’t believe that two wrongs make a right (e.g. to offset an unwanted out of wedlock pregnancy) and and gay marriage as contrary to Biblical moral teaching as we as our biological design are taking a moral stand.  Just as people were morally right to oppose persecution of Jews/gypsies/others during the Holocaust in spite of its support by the majority of Germans.  Whether or not the majority of the population supports a morally correct stand is not relevant; what’s right is right even if everyone opposes it.  Also opposing illegal immigration (I support legal immigration) is simply upholding our laws.  The Democrats would rather throw the laws out the window in order to get more votes.

      The problem is that we have told God to leave so that we can justify whatever immoral actions that we want to take under the guise of “separation of church and state.” Read Washington’s original proclamation for a national day of Thanksgiving, or Lincoln’s proclamation of 1863 and tell me that they didn’t believe in the Judeo-Christian God and Father and moral law.

      As the Bible says, “woe unto him who calls evil “good”, and good “evil”.”

      In the end, abortion and gay marriage will be judged by our Creator as morally wrong and will be judged for it.  I want to be part of the minority that points out to society that it is morally wrong, regardless of society’s willingness to accept that truth or not.

      • ChevSm

        I have complete respect for your views even if I disagree with them.  I actually found it quite refreshing when Mourdock expressed his views on abortion.  I agree it is quite contradictory to allow exceptions if you truly believe abortion is murder.

        But, I don’t see a “guise of separation of church and state”.  I am Christian but unless we’re going to forcibly baptize all Americans I have a difficult time impose my views on all Americans.

        • Fiscally_Responsible

          I appreciate your positive comments.  Usually someone who expresses a view such as mine is the victim of hate speech by most respondents, even though they consider themselves tolerant and open minded.

          All laws are based on some moral code.  Otherwise people who carried out the Holocaust or other types of actions would be justified if the action or policy had the approval of the majority of a country’s citizens.  Otherwise, who is anyone to tell anyone whether anything is right and wrong?  A society based on that is an anarchy.The real problem is that we as a nation have turned our backs on God and are doing our own thing.  The results that we see in our society such as unwanted pregnancies, cheapening of life, drug abuse, violence, etc. simply reflect that fact.  Certainly abortion and gay marriage would have been considered immoral by virtually everyone in the country 50 years ago.  And in most people’s minds who hold the same position as I do, gay marriage is not a civil rights issue, but a morality issue.

          We are reaping what we have sown.  No getting around that.  And eventually, every thought, word, attitude, and action will be weighed by a holy, objective Judge. The only answer is to have accepted Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord.  Any other choice is unfortunately the wrong choice.  And in that day, everyone will realize that it was the only right choice.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            We are reaping what we have sown.  And
            eventually, every thought, word, attitude, and action will be weighed by
            a holy, objective Judge. The only answer is to have accepted Jesus
            Christ as Savior and Lord.

            We who?

            Clap your yap about representative government. You want a theocracy.

            Is that “hatespeechy” enough for you?

          • Fiscally_Responsible

            Our society is reaping what we have sown.  You have the freedom to make whatever choice you want.  You will be held accountable for the consequences of that choice.   I knew that no one would address the issue that I brought up about the Holocaust and popular opinion because it is true, even if it is morally inconvenient.  And telling some to basically “shut up”, while not hate speech, is certain not open dialogue.  But I am taking the source into consideration.

  • MadMarkTheCodeWarrior

    In this election’s primary the GOP doubled down on the crazy train. Moderates like Dick Lugar were replaced by T-Party-Approved extremists like Richard Mourdock. Other moderates chose to retire growing weary of the mob-like internal politics.

    Is this phenomena the result of Citizen’s United which allowed unlimited amounts of outside money to be brought into local races by folks like the Koch brothers to install their mouth pieces as they build their army of automatons from the ground up?

    Guys like the Koch borothers care about two issues and only two: taxes and regulation. They don’t give a damn about health care, education, abortion, religion. Whatever floats their boat works for them; so now they’ve got an army of incensed ignoramouses decrying the evils of taxes and regulation. The Koch bothers don’t care who gets hurt as long as their empire expands ever faster. Sadly the grass roots members of the T-Party are not capable of grasping that this is not in their personal interests.

  • Gary Trees

    In the face of defeat, it’s easy to look at the demographics of the future and dictate that the GOP is in real trouble.  I think that this is myopic.  Things evolve (even if you don’t believe in evolution); I’m not sure what direction the GOP will take in order to ensure some air of security in their part of our current two-party system, but you can bet they will figure out some way.

    You don’t become this entrenched in the system without having some kind of a contingency plan for when the masses turn against you.

  • JGC

    All those think tanks, so little thinking…

  • Prairie_W

    What’s next for the GOP?

    I think a desert island would be a good idea. Seriously.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/James-Patrick-Dwyer-Jr/100002088204784 James Patrick Dwyer Jr.

    As a liberal democrat, I hope the GOP doesn’t change a thing. I am going to enjoy seeing them whither to being irrelevant.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/QMDZ3LH5U2B4GAT7J2HS4TCP6E Jim

    what next? accept truth, not fiction and fantasy. accept tolerance. accept coexistence. and most importantly accept paying taxes and be part of this society. nothing is free. we need to pay our teachers, firefighters, police officers, street cleaning, federal workers, politicians (not to mention their ridiculous pension which many of them do not deserve), public roads, SS, medicare/medicaid, our military, and much much more… 

    got it?

  • http://twitter.com/Astraspider Astraspider

    Oh, the liberal schadenfreude.

  • Joseph_Wisconsin

     I hope the Republican Party stays just as it now is [was for 2010 election]. Don’t change at thing.  That the Republican Party should be the vessel for those that believe an economic philosophy that only serves the interests of the top few percent is best for all Americans  and for  all the white xenophobes and religious fanatics who envision a return to a Father Knows Best America [They still “want their country back”] suits me just fine.  When Boehner still refuses to consider that income tax increases are a necessary part of deficit reduction and Republican Congressman Paul Broun [member of the House Science, Space and Technology committee] says things like, “All that stuff I was taught about evolution and embryology and the big bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of Hell,” I love it. I want them all to stay on the same foundering vessel.

  • Samuel Walworth

    If three most prominent people (mostly Radio / TV hosts hosts or authors) quit thei jobs, the GoP will become party of common sense and sanity once again.

    1. Rush Limbaugh
    2. Sean Hannity
    3. Ann Coulter

    There are many others, but these  are the one who ride the airwaves.

    These 3 people have held GoP hostage for sometime now and dictate the policy for GoP from using their shows (nothing wrong having a show or earning a buck from that but its not helping the very GoP they tout about.)

    Unless that changes or someone from the GoP grows a spine to stand up for what is really practical and right, the demise continues.

    The Tea Party was sort of a rise against the status quo or incumbunts whom these people willified, but that got infiltrated by the very same people for whom the Tea Party was rallying against, so no luck there.

    OWS was a similar one, but with the Dems leading the way now, it seems OWS may not be needed for sometime now.

    • Bluejay2fly

      You forgot Bill OReilly and All of Fox News.

  • toc1234

    great, David Frum.. the left-leaning media’s favorite former bush speechwriter.   but I got to give it to Frum – he saw the gig (nicest lil’ conservative) David Brooks had going and took it a step further. 

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

    Did the conservativeconservative say “Conservatism never fails; it can only be failed” yet?

    Is Viguere pretending the Tea Party and the Republicans are separate yet?

    And which wing of the GOP brought us the Transvaginal Ultrasound?

  • Stephen Shepard

    As a (registered) Republican, I have been saying that this conversation needs to take place within the GOP for at least the  past decade.  The central stance of the party has become one that is so radicalized and skewed well outside of the realm of acceptability, that the party to which I am registered is no longer the party with which I associate.  By accepting and embracing positions and policies that are increasingly radical and extreme, the Republicans are no longer a political party that represents America at large.  The sooner they reject their narrow-minded platforms and return something based more closely to reality, the better.

  • MrNutso

    Funny, because I was going to suggest that Republicans recognize the need for government and a government that works, and works for the people.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

    Everyone watched the Republicans swing so far to the right to capture the vote in the primaries – and then watched Romney have to swing so far back to the left again to try go after the moderate vote.

    And after all that many Republicans say they lost because they were not far enough to the right. “Out of touch” would be an appropriate diagnosis. Even now so many go on that they just have to “say the right thing” and it will magically cancel out all their actions and everything else they said just weeks ago.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

      I just started listening – “out of touch” was spot on.

  • Wahoo_wa

    In 2012 the Democrats received 7,368,050 FEWER votes than they did in 2008.  In 2012 the Republicans received 1,151,677 FEWER votes than in 2008.  While Obama was reelected, the Democrats lost far more voters in the 2012 election when compared with the 2008 vote.  And again, this is the first time since 1944 that the incumbent President received fewer votes in his second election as compared with the election that brought him into office.

    • fcoli

      Are any of those statistics relevant?  They don’t seem to be.

    • OMA_OPINES

      your point?

    • Wahoo_wa

      I think the point is clear.  Democrats under Obama are proportionally losing far more support than the right.  Perhaps it’s the left that should be concerned about a waning support base and not the right.  It seems like a simple, clear deduction. 

    • jefe68

      And yet he won. The Dems won more seats in the Senate and the House. So the question is not about less votes for the Democrats, it’s that more of the folks who are voting are voting for them.

    • Wahoo_wa

      That’s quite true Jefe68 but, using your criteria to evaluate the election (which I think has limited merit), Congress is essentially unchanged – the Republicans still control the House and the Democrats still control the Senate.  Regardless of political affiliation it is historically significant that the number of voters supporting the incumbent President plummeted notably.  Perhaps I’m the only one who finds this noteworthy but it is the first time since FDR that this has happened.  How can one say “so what he won”?  It seems very narrow minded.

  • jefe68

    The Republicans lost election and with this they lost any chance of gains in the Senate and the Democrats have begun to make headway’s into the House of Representatives. And yet they still act as if they have power. The majority of the American people have spoken and it’s not for drastic cuts in Medicare, Medicaid or SS. A majority of Americans want higher taxes on the upper income brackets. Even Bill Kristal is now saying that higher taxes on the rich wont do a thing in terms of hurting the nation.

    I say Obama and the Democrats should call the Republicans bluff on the fiscal cliff. They created this mess with their platform of saying no to anything. 

    John Boehner has a lot of nerve as does Eric Cantor. They have lost, and are going to continue losing and yet they act as if they have the mandate. The nerve.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QUAYWERJ5BUI4QFICNDDVVZWD4 DefendOurConstitution

    Republicans have based their successes for the last 40 years on pitting one group against the other in order to scare
    voters to vote for them.  The Southern Strategy worked well for Nixon
    and was perfected by Reagan – this brought in most of the racists that
    were upset about the Democrats supporting civil rights for Blacks.  Reagan brought in the evangelicals in a big way and used the wedge issue of abortion to
    create an unholy marriage of the religious fundamentalists and the
    racists (in addition to the traditional fiscal conservatives).  That
    worked well for a while, but George W. Bush (mostly through Karl Rove),
    seeing that those unholy marriages were in danger of falling apart, then
    used anti-gay sentiment in 2002/2004 to make sure the evangelicals
    turned out.  After 2004, the anti-immigrant (specifically anti-Hispanic)
    drums started beating loudly. This was the way to re-energize the
    racists and – especially after the collapse in 2008 – Hispanics were a convenient scapegoat
    for scaring working/middle class people that either lost their jobs or
    feared for their jobs.  This culminated in the primary circus where all
    the Republican candidates tripped over each other to establish that they
    hated Hispanics more than the other.  (Make no mistake, Republicans may
    repeat ad-nauseum that they are not against Hispanics, just against
    illegal immigrants, but Republicans have purposefully – and successfully
    – conflated all Hispanics with illegal immigrants.)  Last but not
    least, the War on Women has always been around, but when Speaker
    Boehner’s first House bill was an anti-abortion bill the signal was
    clear to all Republicans in Congress and across state legislatures: the
    War on Women is on!
     
    The bad news for Republicans just keeps coming.  18-29 year olds were
    supposed to have disappeared and instead they increased their share of
    the total vote to 19% (3% more than the reliable Republican vote of the
    over 65 crowd).
     
    Obama won among women by 55-44% (not as good as the 13% advantage in 2008, but nowhere near the “Obama lost women’s support” that the pundits were all claiming).  Republicans whine about the War on Women, but their deeds (in the House as well as in state legislatures) speak louder than any denial of the War on Women – TM.

      

    Add to that the Latino votes that just keep running away from them
    (gee, I wonder why?  is it just because Republicans have demonized
    Hispanics?).  Nationally, Romney lost the Latino vote by >40% and that will only
    grow (In FL alone, President Obama got to 48-49% of the Cuban-American vote. 
    Amazing when you look at the trend: Obama “captured 35% of that vote
    four years ago. In 2004, Democrat John Kerry received 29% of the state’s
    Cuban-American vote, and in 2000, Democrat Al Gore won 25% of it.” – from
    WSJ).

     

    Counting Blacks, Hispanics and Asians things look even grimmer for
    Republicans.  When you lose a group that represents 30% of the
    electorate by 50-55%, that means you must win the (diminishing) white
    vote by more than about 65% in the next election just to tie the popular
    vote (given that the War on Women is not about to end, that means that among white men they must approach 90% for the Republican nominee).  How’s all that hatred against minorities/women working out for the
    Republicans?
     

  • Jordan Davies

    I don’t think that Mr Viguerie has a grip on reality. The Obama election was a mandate. “Big Government Republicans” include McCain and others? This is not a realistic view.

  • Davesix6

    Polls show again and again show that most Americans believe our government is too big and too intrusive into our daily lives.

    Republicans simply did not show up and vote in this last election and the numbers show it.

    Romney moved more to the center right and Obama moved more to the center left before the election.

    There was no clear choice.

    • OMA_OPINES

      You state a truth in your 3rd sentence. The rest is your personal opinion. Republicans showed up.

  • JustEdith

    I have a problem with all of the government bashing.   We’re a big country.  Anarchy isn’t going to work.  Ronald Reagan said once in a speech that ‘government is the problem’ and from then on they’ve taken that as gospel and run with it.  I would say they’ve made it a self-fulfulling prophecy, underfunding it, bashing all civil servants as incompetents….  It almost makes me think they just don’t have any ideas, except say/do anything to win, and then they are just too lazy to govern. 

    Also, I have to say that I found the way they spoke to minorities, blacks in particular, absolutely unacceptable.  Rick Santorum’s comments about black people (Newt, too, come to think of it) were an embarrassment.  Did anybody else cringe? 

    Continue with the tea party message.  See how far you get. 

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      May I introduce you to the term “Rascalbagger”?

      It’s someone who goes to Tea Party rallies on their Medicare-subsidized electric scooter.

    • Davesix6

      JustEdith, do you consider these guys “government bashers”?

      “My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.”
      ― Thomas Jefferson

      “I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.”
      ― Thomas Jefferson
       
      “Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.”  —  Thomas Paine

  • MadMarkTheCodeWarrior

    If you look at non-political behavior in our society, across the board, doesn’t one have to conclude that America is decidedly not wedded to the hard-core conservative social vision? Snap out of it Richard!

  • ann donovan

    I used to be a Republican, but Grover Norquist’s ‘pledge’ was the last straw.  They have become a bunch of little boys with a treehouse marked ‘no girls’ and a blood oath and secret signs and codes (heard on all their talk radio).  Excuse me, but I have no wish to join.

  • TomK_in_Boston

    I hope the next thing for the current version of the GoP, which I call the TeaOP, is oblivion. History is littered with parties that went off the deep end into extremism, and the TeaOP is ready to join them. Besides, we already have a traditional GoP party, it’s called the Democrats. The real question is, why can’t someone represent traditional progressive values? What happened to the left? I’m concerned that President Obama will sell out the middle class in a “grand bargain” that accepts voodoo tax revenues as real. Who needs a righty party if that happens?

  • http://www.facebook.com/jim.castronovo Jim Castronovo

    Allen West, the outrageous Republican tea partier representing Florida’s 22 Congressional District over the past couple of years had to run in a different geography, the new 18th district that resulted from un-gerrymandering. He lost by some 2,400 votes, more than the critical one half of one percent that triggers a recount. He lost to the young democrat, Patrick Murphy. West’s response was not a concession speech; it was a day in court asking for a recount of votes. For me this hard-headedness in the face of simple facts shows a very unattractive side tea party politics. I don’t like it.

  • http://twitter.com/Astraspider Astraspider

    Mr. Vigurie would lead the party deeper into the weeds, not out of the woods.

  • librarylady123

    Wow, Viguerie, is so out of it.  Does he even know anyone under age 40?  Or women?

  • http://twitter.com/DavidASinger David A. Singer

    Richard Viguerie either wasn’t paying attention or, more likely, doesn’t want to accept that a majority of this country, may actually be center-right — but Viguerie’s vision is so not that.  He’s part of the problem — always has been.

  • TinaWrites

    It is my opinion that the Republicans want small government because they want to sweep in and create “another burgeoning new market” where government used to be.  

    If the small-government Republicans get into power, they will privatize government jobs, which have been good jobs for many people.  Now, with even more digitization, the Republicans will take many of those jobs and automate them.  Worse yet, with privatization will come fees and added interest rates and marketing flyers ad nauseum. 
    We won’t be paying less, we will be paying more!!  And it will not be as transparent or as available to be regulated as government is.  

    They speak with forked tongue! 

  • Unterthurn

    Romney wouldn’t have been a team player. He could not have been capable of representing all Americans Democrats and Republicans alike as a single nation.

    Romney himself plays by one set of standards and applies a separate set of game rules to the American people. 

    And let’s face it. From the beginning he was doomed when we found out he tied his beloved family dog to their car roof. Nobody who is capable of such cruelty can have a decent heart. There is something wrong with the dude.

  • MrNutso

    How hard are you working Rush?

  • Scott B

    Norm Ornstein of the conservative/libertarian think tank The American Enterprise Inst. put it best (paraphrased from the Daily Show): “The Republican party’s problem is that it denies fact, science, history, and experience.”  When you combine that with what Jonathan Haidt’s findings that conservatives make so many things sacred, and loyalty (such as to an ideology), that they can’t move off a position that would make them seem disloyal, so they can’t move to the middle and are ever pushed to the right. 
    Just listen to Viguerie speak. The voters chose Obama, who never changed his position on taxes needing to raise (when 60% of Americans exit-polled said taxes needed to raise on  the wealthiest people), moved left on gay marriage, supported the Dream Act and supported women’s issues regarding healthcare, abortion and equal pay, and Viguerie wants to double down on running an even more conservative candidate. 
    Ornstein and Haidt nail it.

  • mtaylor09

    The tea party scares me!!!  I voted for Romney and only because he moved to the center in the weeks before the election.  If the republican party has a tea party candidate, I will vote democratic EVERY time!!! I hope both parties move closer to the center, but if they don’t I want the moderates and independents to unify together and create a feasible 3rd party, that is able to compete against the GOP and the Democrats in a national election. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/steve.beckwith.7 Steve Beckwith

    The opinons and attitude that Viguerie expressed and displayed this morning is exactly why the electorate whacked the republican party in last Tuesday’s national election.   He is one scary person.   

    • OMA_OPINES

      And, hopefully, that ugly attitude will continue to be “whacked” in the future.

  • JustEdith

    And listen to how mean they sound.  ‘We’re in a war, Americans don’t want to work.’ Give us a break!

  • TinaWrites

    Rush Limbaugh:  the economic bulk of the hard work was done by the slaves.  We lived in a Slave Economy until the Civil War, then we had a Jim Crow Economy which kept wages low while again, that hard work was done by African-Americans whose voting rights were scoffed at. (By “economic hard work”, I mean that scholars including economists have figured all this out. It does not mean that other people did not have jobs that required hard work, it means that the economy was “strong” and “growing” because of the contribution of the slaves. The other hard work existed in the shadow of that unpaid work. What are the corporations doing today? Going to China where the labor was as close to slave labor as possible, at first. As China starts to develop from its own work the parallels with the American past start to break down — because an overarching Chinese government does not allow a complete comparison with the situation of the slaves — they had no government with its own agenda to protect them to protect itself.)   That Slave Economy was the economic situation for the entire country.  And the other value – land value – was created by the Indian Wars and exploitation.  Lots of new work has been done on these economic realities, but most politicians and citizens  still speak about a false American past.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

    One thing not being discussed is the trashing the Repubs did on each other in the primaries. “Anybody but Romney” was a very vocal message during the primaries – and it stuck.

  • http://twitter.com/DavidASinger David A. Singer

    Democrats can only love what Bozell and Virguerie are selling — should be petrified if the GOP starts to listen to David Frum…

    • OMA_OPINES

      Agree. David Frum has a brain and a heart, apparently, unlike the other two.

  • axonneuron

    Viguerie and Bozelle both truly believe that if their candidate had been more conservative they would have captured the Presidency. They are living in their own world.

  • Scott B

    Bozell wants proof that the Republicans are out of touch?

    Look at the meetings that were held about birth control and health care. It was a sausage-fest. Not one woman in the room.

    Reagan tried his trickle-down economics and was forced to admit pretty quickly that it didn’t work and had to raise taxes four times. He also said that a bus driver paying a higher tax rate than some Wall Street banker was “crazy”.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

      Reagan also signed off on a huge unfunded health mandate (the reason an ER can’t turn you away if you’re one of the uninsured).

      Reagan would be dismissed as a liberal in today’s GOP.

      • Scott B

         With the exception of his views on abortion and socialized medicine, he’d have to be a least a conservative Democrat. He even reduced the Defense Dept budget. 

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

    Can we have a policy wonk or fact checker on this panel? Someone besides the host who can gainsay the blahblah of the guests?

    Public radio is not set up to have the host also do the confronting. And looking at the subject today, that’s what’s needed.

    • http://twitter.com/RecentrTheRight Martin Long

      You know, after listening for a while, I’m surprised no-one said “just let them go… give them rope… they’ll be irrelevant (eventually)”.  Richard is pretty artful at avoiding David Frum’s facts.

  • rvl1

    I submit that average Americans want so called “big government” to provide a safety net in personal and national crises in the form of unemployment insurance, Jobs bills, and national health care.  They want the government to support education and training.  The want he government to act as an advocate to protect citizens from corporate greed, fraud, and actions that threaten safety and the environment.  Ask anyone you know.  Lower the debt in other ways: raise revenues, end bloated defense spending, correct inefficiencies in gov’t operations, cut corporate welfare.

  • MuriV

    So Happy we got Obama as president!  And by the way, Obama got more than 1/2 the country’s vote.
    When your commentators talk about conservatives being elected, they need to look at numbers.  Conservatives were elected in smaller states with smaller populations.  A majority of the American people are more progressive on social issues than the Republican party is willing or able to understand.  The people who voted for Obama (more than 50% of the country) accepted his platform: higher taxes on the top earners, no drastic cuts on medicare, medicaid or social security but reforms in these programs that will make them viable for the future, reduction in the defense budget, elimination of tax loopholes and corporate welfare, immigration reform.  This is what I want Obama to accomplish

  • scottmartin49

    As a non-evangelical Christian Democrat I say thank God for people like Richard Viguerie. Once dinosaurs like him and his retarded baby-boomer offspring shuffle off the mortal coil, America has a chance at becoming a grown-up nation.
      
    In the meantime, their irredeemably retrograde views merely produce the new majority. I say this as a 46 year old “child of the Reagan years” who has seen firsthand the hollowing out of the American middle during the reign of idiocy they’ve pursued.

    God bless President Obama and America’s future majority! 

  • http://www.facebook.com/richard.palmer.9028 Richard Palmer

    The problem of the republican party is alway typical of failed ideals.  Either say we are wrong or say the reason we failed was we were not pure enough… They pushed farther to the right after Obama won in 2008, they lost in 2012 and they will push farther to the right thinking that they will succeed if only they are pure enough…  that is why Rove was surprised. He thought they were even purer than 2008. 

    compare that with the Iranian goverment. everytime they have a purge, they get rid of the moderates, not the oppositio (which is already in hiding). 

    Zealots always go after the other zealots that lack enough Zeal.    

  • http://twitter.com/RecentrTheRight Martin Long

    It’s not complicated: The Republican political class (Boehner, e.g.) understood immediately that they had to move.  The angry emotional class (Tea Party, et al) can’t let go of their world view precisely because they are so emotionally invested.

    Give them a few losing election cycles and things will adjust themselves.  The angry emotional Republican class will simply die out through lack of [voting] oxygen.

    I’m writing a book right now in which this is a major theme.

  • 1davidkiroshabteselassie1

    and with Grover Norquist referring to Mitt Romney as a “poopy head” on NBC and calling  low income Americans “peasants” on CNN this morning is not helping their deluded cause.

  • Reverend Rhythms

    Didn’t Bozell start off by saying “we need to take a deep breath”? He hasn’t breathed since he started talking!

  • http://www.facebook.com/richard.palmer.9028 Richard Palmer

    The problem of the republican party is alway typical of failed ideals.  Either say we are wrong or say the reason we failed was we were not pure enough… They pushed farther to the right after Obama won in 2008, they lost in 2012 and they will push farther to the right thinking that they will succeed if only they are pure enough…  that is why Rove was surprised. He thought they were even purer than 2008. 
    compare that with the Iranian goverment. everytime they have a purge, they get rid of the moderates, not the oppositio (which is already in hiding). 
    Zealots always go after the other zealots that lack enough Zeal.  

  • axonneuron

    Mr. Bozelle can’t understand why his party is percieved as obstructionist? How about their pledge to make President Obama a one term president no matter what?

  • GKoenig

    Oh, come on.  Ideological talk is fine, but let’s follow the money.  All this PAC money for the Republicans came from the US Chamber of commerce and other big money big business interests.  This puts the lie to the rhetoric the Republicans put forth on fairness and opportunity to work hard and get ahead in the USA.
    You want smaller government?  What are you going to do about smaller business?  If government gets smaller, big businesses will become our replacement for government and govern us from now on.  I’m sorry, that’s no better than big government and probably a lot worse!!

    • TomK_in_Boston

      All the “crazy” behavior of the TeaOP makes sense once you realize the real agenda is to transfer even more wealth to the top.

  • OMA_OPINES

    Perhaps you should have found guests other than rich white old men. David Frum is truly a good conservative and has a brain. Viguerie is as out of touch with reality as the rest of the “base” especially TP faction. I would venture a guess that the vast majority of Americans are kinder and more thoughtful than he envisions and that the entitlement message of the far right (You are entititled to the American Dram if you are born into a family that has already achieved it) is not what we represent as Americans.

  • http://twitter.com/nikevich nikevich

    I haven’t read most of the comments, so I might be repeating a thought: Last year, the Republicans were so passionately determined to defeat Pres. Obama that they were coming close to terrorism and perhaps even treason — destroying the USA, if necessary. Unfortunately, some goodly number of Americans actually remember such attitudes.

    Who needs syrup of ipecac when listening to a recording of Mitch McConnell in 2011 would accomplish the same thing?

    Charles Sykes wrote a book about 25 years ago called _Dumbing Down Our Kids_. Those kids have become adults…

  • cathyac

    Let’s hope that Richard Viguerie keeps saying what he says as often and as loudly as possible.  He is like a visitor from another planet.  After listening to him, people from this planet can be even clearer about what they don’t like.

    Cathy  

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

    Big issue with Republicans is they are a conglomerate – those driven by money(many) and those driven by social issues (many more). And they are finding less and less common ground between the two.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

    Can someone tell Brent Bozell that Reagan was a gifted politician who had a press corpse on bended knee?

    The memory fails Bozell. Remember all of Reagan’s tax increases. The tariffs against larger-engined Japanese-built motorcycles (to save H-D) and bigger pickups (to protect the Big three’s half-ton truck market). The Iran-Contra scandal.

    Whatever Reagan did it was retconned into FREEDOM11!!1!one!

    But Bozell thinks it’s the slogans and the opposition within and without (poor Democratic opposition, a Soviet Union on its last legs), and he doesn’t want to learn that lesson, I’ll just sit back and sell popcorn.

  • Jordan Davies

    I would suggest that everyone listening to this program read the new book by Nobel-prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz, “The Price of Inequality.” In it the inequality in our country is a product of believers in wealth for its own sake, and a lack of belief in the people, the common man. 

    • TomK_in_Boston

      The income share of the 1% reached 23% twice – 1928 and 2007, before the two biggest crashes and banking crises. Can anyone not see that, over and above the question of fairness, redistributing all those $ to the top fuels the casino economy and the inevitable crash? And the TeaOP thinks this is A-OK.

  • Rex Henry

    So your conservative guests sound just as disillusioned as the rest of the party before the election. How can they seriously not entertain the idea of letting go of a few things and allowing people their [personal] liberties?

  • jim_thompson

    Any political party that has a fear of the future can not and will not survive.  The problems within the GOP are with what remains of the current base.  I was a Reagan New England Republican all my life…until McCain picked Palin.  Yes, I had concerns over the theocratic wing and the nutty Birch crowd, but even Reagan knew how to hold them in check. Now they run the show.  Just look at the GOP Presidential primary candidates…very very far right.  Mitt Romney just came off as so phony and well,…kind of creepy.   I will NEVER vote Republican again.  I was proud to actually serve as a delegate from South Carolina this year to the DNC.  The Democrtas get the real make up of America and the GOP is a shrinking, screaming birther crowd

  • 1davidkiroshabteselassie1

    the GOP needs to purge the racists, birthers, truthers, and stop signing pledges to any single individual as opposed to the people. They need to stop following the edicts of hateful radio jocks and Fox. Retire the racial dog whistles and pseudo-science positions. Lying to win elections (read that Jeep etc) is not exactly a winning strategy.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

      If you keep moving to the right faster than the general population, eventually you have to appeal to the fringe to keep your voting base

      • 1davidkiroshabteselassie1

         and they are still at it!

  • MadMarkTheCodeWarrior

    The GOP proclaims itself the standard bearer of freedom and yet the GOP insists on inserting religion into politics and that alone threatens the personal freedom of the majority of voters!

    • OnpointListener

      Bravo!

  • jefe68

    Rush Limbaugh left out a few crucial facts about Mitt Romney’s economic good fortune. For one he was born into wealth.
    Second he was able to start his equity firm with $35 million.
    No hard work there. He used every insider trading gimmick out there. David Stockman has a good overview of Romney’s work ethic that flies in the face of the narrative Limbaugh was bloviating.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/10/14/david-stockman-mitt-romney-and-the-bain-drain.html

    By comparison President Obama did work hard to get where he is, in the White House. 

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Stockman has zero credibility.  He is just a politician.

      Read this from someone who actually worked with him in the ’80s.

      http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/331128/david-stockman-vs-bain-capital-alan-reynolds

      • jefe68

        I bet you say the same about Frum. Dvaid Stockman’s artcile is in line with many others I’ve read about Mitt Romney.

        This is your response, a fluff piece in the National Review? I witnessed Mitt Romney first hand as a governor. He was awful.

        By the way being a good businessman does not guarantee you know how to run a state let alone a nation.

        Mitt Romney and the GOP had an awful narrative and you sir are part of that narrative. You folks are wrong. Get use to losing.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           How was Romney an awful Gov.?

          He got high marks when he was here and he solved real problems.  Go figure.

          The Dems in the MA started attacking Romney only when they considered his success a threat to their own political future.

          MA is not served by having a one party state government.  How many of the past speakers are Felons?  I think it is something like 5 consecutive speakers.

          • jefe68

            Are you kidding? Lets start with public elevator in the state house that he made into a private one so he would not have to deal or see anyone he did not want to.  Then we can move onto the fact that he gave up on the job to run for president two years into his term. He was awful, period.

            As far as the corrupt house speakers, that only speaks to the fact that corruption is blind to party affiliation.

            Your tit for tat approach is not working by the way.

            The GOP is losing in this state because of it’s regressive platform, period.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Elevator? That’s why he wasn’t a good Gov? I never even heard about that one. I did hear from Tom F. — the speaker at the time — state the Romney was a good working partner and they did get the job done in the their weekly 2 hour meetings.

            What really happened is Mitt was too successful and turned things around too quickly. The Dems decided Mitt was getting too powerful and they started blocking his attempt to reform the Turnpike Authority. I suspect their recalcitrance was twofold — protection of patronage havens and blocking Romney from gaining too much political power.

            Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

            Scott Brown is a ‘regressive’? Please.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Also, Deval Patrick has as many ‘partisan’ out of state speeches and trips as Romney while Gov.  The only difference is in how it is covered by the biased media.

            Romney’s mistake was never responding to this things that damaged his image in the state.  Again, this goes to the meme that he isn’t a natural poliitician.  He is interested in results and not atta boys.

    • TomK_in_Boston

      Lord R is the typical privileged boy who was born on 3rd base and thinks he hit a triple. Furthermore his “business” is just a con game, moving money around in accounts until all the wealth of a company ends up in his. He never made a product or did a hard days work in his life. To use the pet righty terminology, he is 100% “taker”.

  • lisafarismcnamara

    The GOP just doesn’t get it; most American’s don’t want what they’re selling and the Tea Party has done nothing but split the Republican party by forcing it into an ultraconservative position that most Americans reject.  They claim they want small government yet they want government to dictate personal moral issues like what a woman does with her body, who can marry, how we die (Terry Shiavo mess), etc.  Obama’s re-election was in my view a majority statement that Americans want the Republicans to stop obstructing Obama’s policies and to give them a chance to work.  Romney supported a health care act in his own state that mirrors “Obama Care” yet he refused to support it when Obama presented it.  We have spent 4 years watching the Republicans fight everything Obama wanted to do regardless of whether it was good for America.  Their goal was to set it up so they could claim in this election that Obama did nothing for us when in reality they are the reason why little was done.  Why would Americans put them back in control when their policies got us here in the first place?  Has everyone forgotten that it was the Republicans who put us here to begin with?  If Romney was the best they could do, they are in huge trouble!   

  • http://www.facebook.com/drpmeade Paul S Meade

    It all comes down to basic definitions. The republican base present the regressive and reactionary policies of the past.The democratic base present the more progressive views.

    Remember the old saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. 

    If the GOP continues to espouse the ideals your speakers continue to promote, the party will be even more marginalized. 

    The demographics continue to change in the US. The tipping point is near.

  • Scott B

    Pres. Clinton points out that when you have an ideology you have to bend facts to fit your “reality”. The current Republican party leadership has had to more than bend, but break with reality. 

  • http://twitter.com/JonoVK Jon Van Kuiken

    The GOP and especially the Tea Party have spent the last four years in a fantasy land.  Many of them spent the first Obama term refusing to accept the legitimacy of the voters’ choice (see Birthers, etc.) Sen McConnell’s remarks that his top priority was to ensure Obama was a one-term president telegraphed how he would refuse to do anything that might benefit the country if it was proposed (or even supported by) the president.
    The problem with all of this is that actually, President Obama has been the most conservative president since Ronald Reagan. The GOP just refuse to believe the evidence because it is in disagreement with their ideology. Same with human-caused climate change, evolution, science, math, etc. If it doesn’t agree with their ideology, then it must be wrong. Until they wake up and accept the evidence, they will continue to become more and more irrelevant.

    • Thinkin5

      And the NRA was stymied because Obama didn’t do anything in the direction of gun control. That made the NRA crazy as they tried to fund raise saying that Obama “wants to take your guns, and will do it in his second term!!”. The GOP can’t do anything unless they can use hyperbolic scare tactics. They have reached the cartoon level.

  • fakeDIY

    Conservatives must recognize and accept that the world is changing. So the goal must not be to resist, but rather to find a way of adapting conservative values to the changing world. But if they continue to push back against the force of a rapidly changing American culture, they will ultimately phase themselves out. Evolving does not have to mean abandoning the old ideals either.

  • JGC

    About the Human Life Amendment guaranteeing rights to all human life from the moment of conception based on the 14th Amendment,  could the Republican Party also show their broad thinking on Immigration Reform by including a statement in the Human Life Amendment that guarantees all embryos conceived on U.S. territory also have full citizenship rights?  For example, if the embryo was conceived by tourists while visiting our nation, then it really doesn’t matter where the child is subsequently born, the embryo is already a U.S. citizen.  Maybe that is the kind of immigration reform that would appeal to a certain segment of the religious right.

  • 1davidkiroshabteselassie1

    Come on! The GOP is so deluded that they even dismissed the polls until the night of Nov 6th! They are so far out of touch with reality that they even dismiss mathematics! It is symptomatic of the larger problem within their party. The GOP has almost become a cult!

    • Thinkin5

      I honestly wonder if Rove and other Republicans were so over confident because they thought that they had thwarted the vote in the swing states. They may have under estimated the will of people to stand in long lines and vote, no matter what it took. They thought that they had it rigged to fall their way!

  • jim_thompson

    The problem with most of the GOP guests today is that they simply do not see the rapaciousness of the far right and that is what has taken over the party.  However, they also are still in denial over Mitt Romney.  Folks, when you go on and on about how you have distain for 47% of the population there is a problem.  It is one thing when 47% of the public/electorate are against you…it is another when you are against 47% of them.  The problem is incresed when the majority of GOP talking heads are doubling down on that.   The numbers and the ideas are just running against the GOP.  The time of Nixon’s “southern stratergy” has run out of the hour glass.

    Jim in Fort Mill,SC

    • Thinkin5

       Mitt was just an empty page for the Repcon extremists to write on it what they wanted to believe. He would just regurgitate it back to each group. Problem is, he was constantly regurgitating it to the broad masses and it wasn’t selling. Romney is not leader of a country material.

  • Scott B

    I like how Mr Frum took Norm Orsteins’s statement about Republicans ” denying fact, history, science, and experience” and made it a catch phrase:”Alternative Information System”. I believe that’s ass “pulling ‘facts’ out of you a$$” where I come from.

    At least I got Ornstein’s quote on the air FINALLY!

    • Bluejay2fly

      I think “Conservative Media Industrial Complex” is an even more accurate label and it fits nicely with the Military Congressional Industrial Complex.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/Z64VOK53WTHAPK2HZ7MHWWAHCU JosephR

    Speaking as a 28 year-old Latino-American male, I can say that Republican positions on immigration isn’t all I vote on. No intelligent American will support a party that claims global warming is a hoax, rejects Darwin, suppresses minority voters, seeks to criminalize abortion, insists President Obama is a Muslim born in Kenya, and talks about gays like they are terrorists. Joesph Rionero, NM

  • keltcrusader

    These guys (except David) just don’t get it. Americans do not feel entitled to anything. Most Americans want jobs and to work for a living. People want to have the opportunity to have decent lives, to have decent homes, to have jobs that make enough for them to be comfortable and not worry about their future. People want their children to be well educated and to able to go to decent colleges and have decent lives for themselves and their future children. They want to live in a strong country that cares for all of it citizens and protects those in need.  

    The Republican party doesn’t seem to want the American people to have these types of lives. They appear to want people to struggle, to constantly worry, for their children to have no way to succeed in life. They want them to rent, not own. They want them to only be educated enough to be drones. They want women and minorities to be quiet, complacent, and accept second-class citizen status. They truly appear to want American people to fail and be beholden to those in power who hold the majority of the money.

      

  • camccook1

    I am a 57 year old white female.  Years ago now, I was a single mom who was fortunate enough to get a job in a Fortune 500 company.  I was able to use student loans to complete my education and because of that gain a promotion.  I have raised 3 daughters who have worked since they were 16 and who all have college degrees.  Two of them are now married to men of minority races.  Needless to say, we have experienced many of the social and economic issues that we deal with in this country today.  The Republican party cannot identify with us.  That was most evident to me when listening to the now infamous talk that Romney gave behind closed doors in FL when he talked about the 47%.  That attitude, along with the extreme conservative right views on women’s rights and immigration is not the representative of our country.  That kind of wealthy white male perspective is out of touch with the country today.  It reminds me of “behind closed door” discussions and decisions that were made in the Fortune 500 company I worked for for 18 years.  I am so proud to live in a country that truly has the ability to elect a President who is representative of this country’s demographics.  And so proud to have been able to raise my daughters to be productive and socially responsible citizens, and yes, Democrats!

    • OnPointComments

      It’s ironic that when Barack Obama adopts a black dialect and tells a predominantly black audience that all white people are racists and out to get you, he’s merely adapting his message for the audience he is addressing; yet when Mitt Romney tells a wealthy audience that 47% of the people won’t vote for him, it’s absolute uncontrovertible evidence of his position.

  • ttajtt

    capitalism is to sub do, no cultivation or conservation, but then recycles.  if J. carter won, we would be dealing with solar energy waste and not nuc waste.   its that thought path that is what trips us up.   

  • http://www.facebook.com/rynkidink Paul Rynkiewicz

    I find it ironic that the party of angry white guys is trying to figure out what went wrong by talking to a bunch of angry white guys.

    • jefe68

      And they are doing it on golf courses…

      • WorriedfortheCountry

        Obama went golfing again this weekend.

        FORE!!!

        He’s only golfed once with members of the opposition : 1 out of 105.

  • Potter

    How often does “hyperbole” cross over into mendacity?….in this election the mendacity was astonishing and the electorate was beginning to get it at the end.

  • BHA_in_Vermont

    OMG Richard Viguerie really thinks that Limbaugh is the face of the ‘real’ GOP. What a delusional twit.

    Romney said the 47% felt entitled? What about Rove? Talk about a guy who feels the GOP is entitled to win the election because he got a lot of too rich people to throw a lot of their money down his rat hole.

    The Tea Party? The “the government can’t spend any money” party? Think again. If you want to win some elections, get the big money out. Put the MODERATE people in the running. Face the FACTS:

    HALF of the electorate is on the right of center, half is on the left. NO party will win with a bunch of far end, or even middle of a side, of the spectrum. And I GUARANTEE you will keep losing your shorts if you think the likes of Limbaugh will win you anything other than derision.

    • jefe68

      Well said. Look at the comments by some of the right wing folks on this forum, delusional comes to mind.

  • Scott B

    The Republicans might do well to get the tax brackets expanded from the single digits, where the highest bracket stops at $380K@yr, so a hedge fund manager is paying the same rate on the $5B he made (and gets to keep more of from his army of tax lawyers, loopholes, and offshore tax shelters) as a couple with 2 kids and pulling down $400K @ yr  in NYC/LA/Chicago… 

    Start the tax increase for $250K @yahoo-JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y:disqus  yer at 1/4%, and end up with the full 4% increase for $1M+. And lets’s call money made, money earned. It all spends the same, and a millionaire doesn’t get to pay less tax on a new car because he made that money from returns on capital investment when someone working way too hard for way too little has to literally count pennies and figure in tax to buy the basics of life.

    • ttajtt

      what if a little hire on multimillionaires… why aim for the low high crowd.

      • Scott B

         That’s find with me, but my point was about increasing taxes at a fair rate.
        Where I am $250K @ yr is pretty high on the hog, but I know from having been elsewhere that same $250K doesn’t go very far.
         I’m not suggesting a what’s often called a “fair tax” (really a flat tax), as that means everyone pays the same rate, and taking a, say, 20% chunk of income from someone making low to mid five figures a year hurts a lot more than 20% from someone that’s still making the better part of $1M even after taxes.
          That being said I don’t think that multimillionaires should be paying some kind of extra tax on top of revamped tax brackets just because they have more money than 99.9% of people.  It’s pretty easy to figure out a few more tax brackets for $250K to $1M and one for, say $5M @ year, and close some loopholes.

        • ttajtt

          yes  fair tax is right, do you think this will led to a flat tax talk, to make the larger people happy.  reaching a tipping point some where and we won’t be able to catch up. equalize.

          • Scott B

             There’s taxes that are fair, and a “fair tax” which is another name for “flat tax”, and that “fair (flat) tax” isn’t fair.  So I hope it doesn’t lead to talk. 

             There are some that think that we should have a national sales tax instead. But someone literally counting pennies to afford the basics of life, let alone extras, is going to be buying less than someone making millions and doesn’t worry about the extra few thousand on that new luxury car.
             ”Fair” is easy to say when you don’t have to worry about what bill doesn’t get paid this month.

          • ttajtt

            money is a germ spreader, cards will take over, plastic will cause cancer, government prints it and wants it back. cars, phone are drone robots, wired tax. its free for them, i do not see each their daily life style shopping list. taxes.  

  • Potter

    I heard a lot of denial of reality on this show. This loss is not going to change overnight or for quite awhile. 

    The GOP’s Denial, Frank Rich, NYMag

  • Michiganjf

    “Worried” and “Gregg Smith,”

      Did you get all that from David Frum about the “alternate information reality” that Fox and Limbaugh dump on hapless Republicans?

    … I think he was speaking directly to you.

     Faux News had BOTH of you spitting out WRONG facts and numbers about the election for the last six months (longer with regards to everything else, of course)…

    … yet even on Friday, Gregg hadn’t learned better, and was still spouting off Faux News MISINFORMATION (*euphemism) about how Allen West was now leading in his race!!!

    Perhaps you can both read David Frum’s e-book, and save us all from having to scroll past gads of your inane posts??

    • TomK_in_Boston

      I always refer to the righty alt universe, and it seems it had an unfortunate collision with the real one. Occasionally reality does assert itself.

      Allen West! The guy who was allowed to retire from the army one step ahead of a dishonorable discharge? Please tell me Gregg wasn’t rooting for such a bozo.

      • jefe68

        Yes he was and still is. West was originally brought up on title 32 charges for putting a gun to a prisoners head firing it as a method of getting information. Real class act. Somehow he was allowed to plead out to a lesser charge and keep his pension.

        • notafeminista

          No more disturbing than women who support a candidate who only sees them for their so-called “lady parts”….don’t you think?

          • 1Brett1

            Nice way to hang with the thread, or (if you wish), provide a tit-for-tat “intellectual” argument. You seem to want to insert “lady parts” into most of your posts today. Having problems?

        • Mike_Card

          West was drummed out of the corps for being unfit for military duty.  It was only after he tried to run for President in 08 and his bout of accusing 81 Democratic House members of being communists that he gave broad demonstrations of his mentally unbalanced state of mind.

          Careful on the Article 32 reference; under the UCMJ, an Article 32 panel is the military equivalent of a grand jury in the civilian system.  Had the Art 32 panel found substantial evidence, West would have been charged with a crime and sent before a court martial to stand trial.

          (And I’ll yield to any JAG officer; I’m not an attorney.)

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Somehow I get the impression David Frum doesn’t listen to Rush or ‘Fox’.

      What I find interesting is if you applied David Frum’s test to the Democrat platform and message they would fail extremist test also.

      Misinformation?  No, I only attempted to correct misinformation on this site.  I despise media bias.

        Romney ran a mostly positive campaign
        Obama ran a deceitful and divisive campaign

      I am saddened that Obama was rewarded for a failed first term and for also running such a small, dirty campaign.

      Romney did run a poor campaign.  Too many issues were not responded to and they played too much defense.  Sure, Romney the candidate, had some problems but he proved in the first debate that he wasn’t the primary problem.

  • jimino

    Both Brent Bozell and Richard Viguerie are professional propagandists, for whom “perception is reality” in the truest sense.  For the rest of us, reality is reality.  And the reality is that Reagan was NOT a small government conservative.  He presided over the greatest growth in a peacetime federal deficit in history.  He RAISED taxes on the vast majority of Americans through the payroll tax increases that made Social Security sustainable through the life expectancy of the baby boomers.  He agreed to raising taxes on capital gains to match those on ordinary income.  None of this would get even one vote from the current Republican party and its tea party backers.  Bozell actually believes what he’s been saying and telling others to say to get elected, so is apparently unable to discern the “real reality” the rest of us recognize.

    As for Viguerie, I heard him on Morning Edition a few days ago and his solution is that his right-wing regressive message just be relayed by superficially better salespeople, that is, more minorities like Rubio and Cruz, but that it remain just as regressive.  In other words, his proposal is to just sell the lie more convincingly.

    Both are clueless about actual policy and governing.

  • djw52

    I think it ridiculous that many of the Republican guests fault the middle class, blacks, hispanics for voting their interests – but neglect to noted that the wealthy, white, older males voted what they perceive to be their interests!  Many people believe that the wealthy are not paying their share (deadbeats?) rather than the 47% who are paying payroll taxes, SS taxes, or are retired, veterans, etc.  They should read the editorial in the business section of the Globe Friday Nov 2 – that the GNP, stock market, etc has done generally twice as well under a Democratic president than Republican since Truman.  If they care about the economy they should vote Democratic and get real about the need to raise revenues and cut gov’t expenses. They are the ones in la-la-land. The Republicans don’t get it – especially the guests calling for a more conservatve agenda…. I am a white middle aged working woman in a “wealthier”" family and I believe in fairness.

  • Michiganjf

    Brent Bozell… what a clueless Bozo!!

     He claims “Mexicans come to America for liberty?!!!!”

    What a goof!

      The Mexican poor have liberty to the point of being utterly ignored by their own country’s government!

    They come here for opportunity, NOT because they’re starving for liberty, you buffoon!

    So NO, Mexicans shouldn’t feel great affinity for Republicans because Republicans are the only people in the world who hand out liberty like candy to children.

    Good grief, get a grip on reality!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000228987262 Tendo Kaluma

    In order for the GOP to win back the hearts of Latino voters, they need to rewrite the current immigration bill and make it similar to the one that was passed during the Ronald Reagan amnesty era. It did not carry many back breaking punitive measures – these folks do not have a lot of money, especially now in these tough financial times. We have already seen that each person in that demographic group, knows at least an individual who is living under the shadows of fear for deportation, one can only imagine the heavy financial burden on these families. Let’s go back to the original Kennedy bill; it carried some humane factors that would go a long way to make new friends for any party with genuine interest. What is being currently proposed is still insulting the intelligence of this volatile voting bloc! President Barack Obama and the Democratic party cannot afford to sit back and watch yet another narrative which lacks their compassion and full acknowledgment of their recent gains.

  • 1Brett1

    …’twould be kind of funny; and, actually, ’tis funny, in that absurdity has elements of truth, humor, and tragedy…Many of the same neocons calling for a need to have GOP’ers move more to the right after the 2008 election, were the same ones calling for a more conservative agenda during this last election. Many of those are also the same neocons calling for a move more to the right after last week’s election and are doubling down on their rhetoric as they make their way across the media spectrum. 

    Many neocons in the media, and even some of those on this forum, are stepping all over themselves in a scramble to parse the best smelling rose for conservatism in their interpretation of what this election means in terms of the way the electorate voted, which is also funny/absurd. With utterances heard during the campaign on the one hand about polls being a true reflection of what the “American people want” and, on the other hand, “polls don’t mean anything (the proverbial Dick Morris “both-sides-of-the-mouth” approach), the drum keeps on beating…It’s a bit like clergy from different religious denominations arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

    In hearing that Mitt Romney wasn’t “severely conservative” enough, or, he didn’t get his message out effectively (and even statements such as David Frum is a “left-leaning RINO”), and to juxtapose this with Obama is a “far-left-progressive-socialist” is also funny…yeah, people really wanted more conservatism yet a “far-left-progressive-socialist” won the election; that makes sense [sarcasm].

    Then, on one foot, some neocons are calling for a more moderate GOP because the demographics of the country are changing, and that a double-speak-tweaking of the message 
    is what’s called for, but while hopping on the other foot, beat the same old loose-headed drum with the same, tired neocon beat, seems rife with absurdity, as well.

    For one thing, neocons need to get their narrative out of conflict with itself…

  • jimino

    Since the Republican leadership has clearly announced that it intends to continue to refuse any cooperation in any effort to raise taxes on the wealthiest Americans, despite overwhelming support for such action by the American people, the first step in deciding their future is to answer this question, which should be put to Boehner and McConnell the next time they appear in front of reporters:

    “Do you oppose the will of your constituents on this matter because you think they are too stupid to understand the issue and you know better or is it because you really do not represent them and owe your true allegiance to your wealthy donors and their interests?”

    • Steve__T

       I would actually watch with glee, if their was a reporter that had a set to ask that question to his face. In a place he could not run away and had to stand and answer.

    • OnPointComments

      I am apparently the only person who is totally unimpressed when a group of people are polled and say “Yeah, raise taxes on that guy over there, but not on me.”  I’d be more surprised if the poll didn’t reach this conclusion.

      • jimino

        So you would go with the “American people are too stupid” answer then?

        • OnPointComments

          No, if we’re going to govern by polls, I’ll wait for the repeal of Obamacare first, then they can move to the poll on taxes.

  • Potter

    Reagan Reagan Reagan. Reagan was an out-to-lunch president but even he was more connected to reality than the current GOP. Reagan raised taxes when he saw that it was needed. 

  • 1Brett1

    Here’s part of what’s wrong with neocons/neolibertarians (LINOs). Potter says, “The majority do not want this vision of America” (meaning they don’t want the Limbaugh, Hannity, and all, version/vision). And Gregg Smith’s response: “no one hates half the country.” Or, how ’bout, “The real question for me is will the “ends justify the means by any means necessary” tactics used by Democrats [to] destroy everything.” -Gregg Smith…so much for “honest” debate. If high-school debating-team tactics and sophomoric baiting is “honest debate”….well…then….

    • Potter

      I was trying to point out that the radio talk entertainers are really shooting the party in the foot all the while they think they are running it.

      • 1Brett1

        I know, and Gregg was trying to twist your point into something ridiculous by putting words in your mouth is my point

  • spokalou

    The GOP has allowed the tail to wag the dog.  Double down with more of the Tea Party and what little is left of the party will crumble.  Perhaps a new, viable fiscally conservative, socially liberal party will rise from the ashes.  The party that wants to be the boss of my uterus will never get my vote.

  • sdpaia

    How does an abortion ban make the government smaller?

  • ttajtt

    bills to be paid still, like commercial free cable, now radio, once paid, repairs, we get commercials.   the government needs to add a cost of living yearly, to care and up keep its bills, a sun raise is needed, endless circle or is it work, a job.  makes the world go round. 

  • sdpaia

    How does an abortion ban make the government smaller?

  • jasonmacalpine

    Mitt Romney lost the 2012 election because his father was right.  Extremism in the defense of liberty, is a vise.
    Because extremism is always a vise.  It may have won Mitt Romney and Barry Goldwater the nomination, but Romney could not run back to the middle fast enough after the RNC, to save the general election.  Goldwater, of course, never tried, because that’s not who he was.  George Romney should be proud that his son moved toward some sense of normacy, among the paranomal that has become the Republican party.

    By the way, a tax increase for those earning above $250.000 does not influence their decision to hire.  Demand for their product does.  If demand rises, they put on another shift.  If demand falls, they lay people off.  It’s that simple.  And guess who their customers are.  The middle class would be a good bet.   As an employer/producer, I really don’t mind paying taxes.
    It means I’m making money, and that feels good.

    What doesn’t feel good is watching our people in uniform sacrificing so much while I’m given a tax break.  The result is 12 years of their blood spilled into the sands of the Middle East, while we at home run up a national debt that noone can fathom.
    For that I feel ashamed and left out.  Don’t remove my  opportunity to at least pay a little more tax to ease my conscience.

    What has happened to this country, where a candidate for President of the United States can no longer dare to express the sentiment behind the words,  “Ask not what your country can do for you.”

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Memo to Jason — there is nothing preventing you from paying more.

      • TomK_in_Boston

        Memo to worried – the USA is a great nation, not a bake sale.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           jason wanted to ease his conscience.  I was trying to help him save on shrink fees.

          • TomK_in_Boston

            Sorry, saying that everyone who wants higher taxes should just pay more is righty script #102, you were trying  to help keep the old talking points coming. Next in #103 you’re supposed to accuse him of “envy”.

          • jefe68

            You know Tom I’ve been reading a fair amount of the right wing rhetoric here today looking for some bit of evidence that some of these folks have any sense of critical thinking skills. I have to say it’s really kind of pathetic.
            I submit as evidence the regressive right wing whinge posted by Mr. Worried.

            What I’ve been reading is a lot of hyperbole that evolves into mendacity.

          • TomK_in_Boston

            Worried thinks the medicare voucher plan is good because it gives seniors the choice of which insurance corporation will take their $ and screw them over, and choice is always good.

      • jimino

        You really are utterly clueless about what makes the real “makers” in our country tick. 

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           Non sequitur

  • 1Brett1

    Yeah, I remember the “Young Republicans.” The ’70s turning into the ’80s was a weird time to be sure…Dylan became a born-again Christian, Reagan was president, Lennon was murdered, and a bunch of obnoxious, young folks walked around in ties and pull-over, sleeveless sweater-vests at parties spouting social conservatism and free-market capitalism while snorting coke…it was a weird time, to be sure.

    • notafeminista

      Funny…I remember a bunch of old folks wandering around in decades old bell bottoms and tie dye spouting free love (AIDS anyone?) and snorting cocaine.  It was a weird time to be sure.

      • 1Brett1

        Yep, there were those folks, too. I guess the difference between you and me is your selective memory.                                 

        The young Republicans, on the other hand, were hypocrisy on steroids, er, coke…

        • notafeminista

          So, do you suppose the capitalists let the hippies have their coke on credit?

          • 1Brett1

            Are you trying to confess you were one of those hypocritical Young Republicans who sold coke to “hippies”? Was there some sort of method to that madness?  

          • notafeminista

            Selling is very capitalistic, very inline with your “Young Republican” – which part did you find hypocritical?

          • 1Brett1

            The feigned “social conservatism” of many of the Young Republicans juxtaposed against their coke use was one of the areas of their hypocrisy.

          • 1Brett1

            Your commitment to embracing the Young Republicans’ ideas of capitalism being in line with coke selling is very telling…

          • notafeminista

            Your commitment to embracing hypocritical Young Republicans period, is very telling.

          • 1Brett1

            nota, you’re better than this; it’s like you’re not even trying…perhaps we’ll have a go again some other day, when you’re not so tired.

        • notafeminista

          We should accept your comment as truth and mine as “selective memory”…because?

          • 1Brett1

            My comment was about “Young Republicans,” which were referenced in the show. Your comment was about how you remember the hippies. I acknowledge both stereotypes; you acknowledge only one, which was my point.

      • http://twitter.com/VidkunQuisling1 Vidkun Quisling

        Personally, I truly enjoy when the tinfoil hat wearing religous mouth breathing nutjob tea”party” supporters come out of the woodwork to share their “wisdom” with us all.  Their demographic:  chickenhawks, angry bigots/racists, chronically under educated and unemployed, religous extremists, violent, financial/fiscal luddites who are barely capable of balancing their checkbooks and treat the demented legacy (yes, he had dementia) of Reagan as if he was jesus. 

        Just because you are still a virgin don’t blame others for your “shortcomings”. Lol

        • notafeminista

          Oh no no, the truly fun ones tell a woman she deserves equal rights, equal pay, equal opportunity just like the men!  And then tell her that despite all that equality, she still..STILL must vote as if her lady parts depend on it. 

          Tsk.. no smart woman buys into that thinking.  I am so much more than my lady parts and certainly don’t need a “sensitive man who supports a woman’s right to choose” to tell me how to vote.  

          Incidentally no reporter or journalistic publication ever referred to President Reagan as “Jesus”. Unfortunately President Obama has been referred to a “sort of a god”. Furthermore, thousands of people in this country have been and will be diagnosed with dementia. Is it your position to demean them all – or just the ones you don’t like?

          • 1Brett1

            I read your first two paragraphs with some sort of similar combination of repulsion and curiosity reserved for Ingraham and Coulter; I guess to be fair to them, at least they make a good living at this sort of tripe.

            As to your “lady parts..” When legislation is talked about by  politicians or they introduce social ideas that would limit a woman’s ability to be more than the sum of her “lady parts,” then one would think that a woman would be familiar with how those ideas would affect her personally, especially regarding equality in the workplace and in social structures…one would think.

          • notafeminista

            Neither of which happened.  Pffffft and the right is delusional? 

            Tell me incidentally, what is it you find so curious and/or repulsive about Ingram and Coulter?  Be specific.

          • jefe68

            Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.
            – Frank Zappa

          • notafeminista

            Love Zappa – one of his finest moments was taking on Tipper Gore.

  • sdpaia

    Since the Republican Party is opposed to raising taxes for the rich, wouldn’t legalizing more immigrants bring in more middle income taxes?

    • hennorama

      Yes, it would.

      Another fact that few may have considered – undocumented workers who are on payrolls are paying Social Security and Medicare taxes via deductions from their paychecks, but won’t receive benefits unless their status changes.  Many also pay Federal, state and local taxes via payroll deductions.  It’s estimated that about half of all undocumented workers are on payrolls, with the other half working “off the books.”  Some but not all undocumented workers file tax returns using an ITIN (individual Taxpayer Identification Number) and either receive refunds or pay additional taxes.

      They also contribute to Federal, state and local revenues by paying sales taxes, gasoline taxes, property taxes, various fees, etc.

      Another factoid many may not be aware of – about 1 in 6 workers in the US are foreign-born.  Nearly half of these foreign-born workers are Hispanic, and about one quarter are Asian.  Median incomes of foreign-born workers is nearly $32K, which is about 78% of the median for native-born workers.  There are a variety of reasons for this, but the main one is that foreign born workers are more likely to be employed in lower-wage service occupations.

      Source:www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/forbrn.pdf

  • Simon_deMontfort

    Bozell and Viguerie seemed surprisingly limited in the scope of their intellect and facts.  They cherry pick data to fit their failed philosophies.  If that is the best  of Republican thinking, they really are screwed.

    All I heard was the real solution was to move harder to the tea party right, and Reaganomics (first known as voodoo economics) was all that would be needed to save the country and win hearts and minds.  Reagan raised the debt $2 trillion and he raised taxes (after the 1981 cut he reduced that cut by half.) Reagan would have no chance.

  • notafeminista

    ’twill be a bright 4 years to come for sure, as he has no one to blame but himself.

    • TomK_in_Boston

      Fine, keep hoping for bad times, but I hate to tell you that the economic low point is usually 3 years after a “systemic banking crisis” and this one seems to be following the usual pattern, so things should be improving.

      • notafeminista

        What bad times, dear?  The Left has spent untold millions telling us just how accomplished President Obama has been – no bad times here, right?

        • TomK_in_Boston

          I understand that it’s hard when a fantasy world disintegrates, hang in there, talk to a friend, it’s OK. 

          • notafeminista

            Come now, what did you mean by pattern…specifically?

          • TomK_in_Boston

            When I wrote “the economic low point is usually 3 years after a “systemic banking crisis” and this one seems to be following the usual pattern”, I meant, specifically, that the economy seems to have bottomed out about 3 years after the bush crash. Comprende? The recovery has started and will continue through the next bright 4 years.

          • notafeminista

            Of course it will, following its usual pattern established over decades..long before anyone made the acquaintances of Messrs. Bush or Obama.    Given that, no credit can be given for saving us from financial ruin, nor can any be places for getting us there.  It’s all just a pattern…no?

          • TomK_in_Boston

            No. You’re more interested in demeaning the President than in understanding the situation, exactly what creates the alt universe you guys lived in where Lord R was a sure winner.

            When these storms hit, there is a pattern in the time course, but the gvt can act to make them less or more severe. BHO’s stimulus and keeping interest rates near zero has mitigated the bush crash. It’s bad, but it’s not 1929.

            Systemic banking crises do not hit at random, either. Tax cuts ‘n deregulation, the core of voodoo economics, promote the casino environment that leads to a bubble and a crash.

            Anyway, unless the TeaOP outdoes themselves in sabotaging the USA, the worst should be over. Sorry. Maybe in the alt universe you can pretend to have no recovery and that will feel better.

          • notafeminista

            Right.  Systemic banking crises only occur when the guy you don’t like is in office.  Otherwise its just “slow recovery”.

        • notafeminista

          To what “usual pattern” do you refer?  I have been assured that it was the President’s economic policies that have saved the US from plummeting to our fiscal death.  Surely you aren’t suggesting that what happened over the last 4-8 years was actually part of some sort of….oh what’s the word?  Cycle, perhaps? A cycle following a predictable and totally foreseeable pattern regardless of who was president?  Oh, that can’t possibly be.

          • jimino

            So you’re saying that it’s actually capitalism itself that is to blame and these economic “disruptions” are just an inevitable consequence of our economic system?  So WTF are you so upset about?  You want us to reject capitalism?

          • notafeminista

            Ask TomK…he described “the usual pattern.”    Trust me, I’ve been assured it was President Barack “kind of a god” Obama who prevented certain economic death.

  • hennorama

    The Great Recession hurt many many people, and the resultant anger emerged in both the Occupy Wall Street movement, and the Tea Party.  These are opposite and extreme representations of the anger over both the causes and the outcomes of the Great Recession.  OWS is generally angry about the causes, and TP is generally angry over the outcomes.

    There are significant commonalities among these 2 groups, however.

    Both are angry at the government.  Both have energy and claim they speak for large segments of American society.  Both have loony
    members who have acted inappropriately.  Both have garnered
    significant media attention and have had public figures –
    entertainers, religious leaders and politicians – express their
    support.  Both are have populist elements and both have anarchist
    elements.

    Some of the ideas of both movements have been adopted by the two major political parties, but to much different extents.  Democrats have promoted and enacted financial reforms, and Republicans have virtually coopted the entirety of the Tea Party agenda.  The difference is that Democrats have only modified their positions slightly, while the Republican Party as a whole has become much more extreme after absorbing the Tea Party.

    I realize both OWS and TP members will protest these statements and will say they aren’t being absorbed and coopted, but it’s difficult
    to argue this point.  No real third party is going to emerge, and
    anarchy is not going to rule.  (Pun intended).

    The vast majority of Americans are somewhere in the middle of the
    political spectrum – they lean toward liberalism or conservatism, but aren’t anywhere near the extremes.  Many favor conservative fiscal policies, and liberal social policies.  Or vice versa.  The point is few Americans favor political extremism.

    Republicans coopted the Tea Party, and this resulted in the election of many TP candidates in the 2010 midterms.  What happened as a result?  No compromise, no solutions, no bi-partisanship.  Instead we get the “party of No!,” a debt ceiling crisis, and the fiscal cliff.

    The 2012 election changed some of this.  Tea Party-endorsed
    candidates for Senate did not do very well, with 12 of 16 losing.  Several of the most prominent TP House members lost, notably Allen
    West and Joe Walsh.  Michelle Bachmann barely eked out reelection.The failure of TP Senate candidates Akin and Mourdock effectively cost Republicans a Senate majority.  The Tea Party Caucus in the House lost several members, too, and fewer Republicans were elected to the House overall.

    However, the TP remains a significant minority of Congressional Republicans, and they seem in no mood for compromise, even with fellow Republicans.  This internal battle will be interesting to watch, and holds the key to the future of the Republican Party.  The more extreme they become, the more losses they will endure.

    During this campaign, Republicans talked about “expanding the base” regarding taxes, when they should have been talking about “expanding the base” of their party.  As Sen. Lindsey Graham said about the Republican Party: “The demographics race we’re losing badly.  We’re not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term.”

    Failure to act on the obvious will result in the Republican Party becoming less and less relevant in the future.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Akin was a 3-for.  His stupidity probably cost Moudock and perhaps Romney.

      The TEA Party has nothing to do with social issues.  Social issues brought Mourdock and Akin down.  Sarah Palin had endorsed a primary opponent of Akin (a woman named Steelman) so you can’t say Akin was THE Tea party candidate.

      I disagree with your characterization of the TEA party caucus.  Everything you say about TEA party obstructionism could also be said of Harry Reid during the last two years.

      • hennorama

        Thank you for your response. I respect your views.

        Regardless of whether the TP has a social issues agenda or not, both Akin and Mourdock were TP candidates, and they lost. This was clearly costly for Republicans, as I said, and as you agreed. Palin has a good endorsement record overall, but as you said, her Senate candidate Steelman lost the Missouri GOP primary, which resulted in Akin’s candidacy, and she endorsed Mourdock in Indiana, who also lost. A Palin endorsement may have helped Romney, but that didn’t happen, unless you consider a lukewarm Facebook post the evening before Election Day as an endorsement.

        “Moderate Mitt” Romney may have won, but he would never have gotten out of the primaries. He had to pretend to be “severely conservative.” It was apparent from the beginning that he was misrepresenting his true nature, and people saw through his pretense in the end.

        I agree there is more than enough stubbornness to go around, and that both parties share the blame for Congressional inaction. But the use and abuse of the filibuster by Senate Republicans has gone to extremes, and sets a terible precedent. Had Romney won and had Republicans gotten a Senate majority, there’s little doubt the filibuster would have been used by Senate Democrats to obstruct. This is not good for our country.

        We need to elect more moderates from both major parties in order to get things done. Extremism is interesting, but governing requires compromise and cooperation. There’s precious little of both in evidence just now, but I am optimistic that this will change in the near future. Various forces are pressuring both sides, notably the looming fiscal crisis. Pres. Obama’s reelection gives him more freedom to compromise, and Republicans have to be reading the same handwriting on the wall, scrawled there by both the electorate and business leaders.

        Thanks again for your response.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          Hello again.

          I agree the GOP primary process was damaging.  Much of it was self-inflicted by Romney’s campaign.  I think it cost them $100M in campaign cash plus huge damage to his image.

          Mourdock did have a 3rd party candidate to deal with as well that may have had an effect. 

          Personally, I don’t want moderates but grown ups.  People willing to solve real problems instead of jockeying for political power and bringing home the bacon.  I didn’t like the Denny Haestert congress for that reason.  The Nancy Pelosi congress was worse than the Haestert congress.

           That said, I think Scott Brown — a proud moderate — was a good Senator.  I didn’t agree with many of his votes but he was doing his job representing MA.   He worked hard and was very transparent and accessible.  He lost to a left wing ideologue by a huge margin.

          • hennorama

            I agree as to the need to elect those who will work to solve problems, regardless of what we call them. We need actions not factions, solutions not elocutions, and doers not booers.

  • notafeminista

    Hum…maybe they’re just being ironic….

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIk1pY7Yg8U

    • 1Brett1

      The bigger question is….always, irrespective of what the video is: what does one mean when one puts a video on this forum? Why would one provide a video with no contextual explanation? 

      • notafeminista

        One picture is worth a thousand words.  You are welcome to create whatever context with which you feel comfortable.

  • http://www.facebook.com/kyle.rose Kyle Rose

    In this neck of the woods, what people don’t like about Republicans are their neanderthal social views: anti-abortion, anti-gay, anti-immigrant. Most of the animus I hear toward the GOP is a result of social conservatives running their mouths. The GOP is thus considered repugnant, even among social progressives who aren’t especially enamored of big government.

    Jettison the social conservatives and deal with the short-term drop in support while rehabilitating your brand for the 21st century: the alternative is a slow demographic death as the social conservative constituency shrinks and becomes more and more marginalized in modern society.

    • firstpandora

      I agree.  The Republican party cannot sell a schizophrenic message:  arguing for smaller government except when it comes to interfering in the personal lives of citizens, where it argues we should have more government of our reproductive and marital rights.  It also cannot solve it’s “latino” problem by getting warm and fuzzy on immigration.  It can start by respecting “latinos” who have many views and don’t conveniently fit into a box.  The best start would be to recognize “latino” voters are American citizens, not illegal migrant workers, drug dealers, and inherently “unAmerican.”  Then the Republican party can start extending that respect to the rest of the citizens of this diverse nation:  treating women as if they have the good sense to make their own decisions, respecting the achievements of African Americans instead of dumping them in the “welfare” box, discussing economic policy in China without making Asian-Americans feel they are one piano note away from shouting “yellow peril.”  A legitimate argument can be made for smaller government and it might well attract a constituency but not by people who want to control your personal life, disrespect any kind of diversity, and, when last in power, took us into two unfunded wars while lowering taxes.  Some fiscal conservatives!

  • anamaria23

    Selection of Paul Ryan as a running mate should diminish any fears that Mitt Romney was too moderate.   Thought of any chance of him ascending to the Presidency swayed a number of voters.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Really?  Why do you believe Paul Ryan was extreme?  There are many on the right that think Ryan is a moderate.

      His budget was not a hardcore extreme budget.  It grew government at 3% instead of Obama’s 4.5%.  It took 20 years for Ryan’s budget to come into balance.  Obama’s never came into balance.  IF Harry Reid had allowed a negotiation on budgets we probably could have gotten something reasonable.

      Many people argue that Ryan’s Medicare reform proposal was extreme.  What did he do do AFTER he received this criticism?  He teamed up with a few Democrats (eg- Senator Ron Wyden) and modified the proposal.  Instead of working with Ryan, many Democrats simply attacked him.  His latest proposal is NOT radical.   Personally, I’d like to find out more about this new bipartisan solution.  I haven’t seen any other solution proposed from the left so it is hard to compare and contrast.  One thing is clear.  The status quo is unacceptable.

      • jefe68

        So are one of those who think Paul Ryan is a moderate?  That would explain a lot.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          I generally do not like labels but Ryan isn’t an extremist like Ron Paul or Gary Johnson.  There were many TEA party freshman congressmen that didn’t think Ryan’s budget cut spending fast enough — thus the 20 years to balance.

          How do you define moderate?  Taking 40 years to balance the budget instead of 20?

          Give me a break.

          • TomK_in_Boston

            Turning a bedrock retirement program into a Groupon that won’t buy a whole insurance policy from the predatory corporations and sticking seniors with the cost shortfall is extreme class warfare. Ryan belongs in jail.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

             Ryan’s modified plan maintains Medicare.  It gives seniors a choice.  Are you against choice?

            Without modification traditional Medicare is gone — poof.  It is under water by about $100T.  What is your solution?

          • TomK_in_Boston

            Worried, do you really swallow every talking point? You really believe everything the righty spin machine spins out?

      • Michele

         Um, how about an amendment regulating abortion (also known as the right of women to have sovereignty over their own biology) and defining rape?  We received the right to vote via the 20th amendment but would have the right to full person-hood removed through another?  If that’s not radical I don’t know what is.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           I don’t agree with Ryan on that one.

          However, Ryan didn’t vote on allowing Dr.s to kill babies that survive botched abortions.  Obama did twice. He also supports partial birth abortion.

          I find that much more radical than the personhood amendment.

          • Michele

             I don’t want to get into a long drawn out debate.  But I would assert that personhood should be attributed to the person who already exists.  Women are not walking wombs who should lose their right to self-determination if they become pregnant.

      • jimino

        Why don’t you spend tomorrow pricing health insurance for someone age 65 or greater on the free market the get back to us on what a brilliant idea Ryan had on Medicare vouchers one could spend in that “market”? 

        (Don’t tell him but this is a trick question.  There is no such product or market.  It would literally have to be invented for this harebrained idea to even be tested)

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           You clearly don’t understand the modified proposal.

          btw – have you heard of medicare advantage?  There is a market already.

  • http://www.facebook.com/bronwyn.fryer.37 Bronwyn Fryer

    The haters don’t get it. Most of don’t like people who spend all their time hating everyone who doesn’t look like them. And we don’t vote for stupid people who can’t read maps, argue with science, hate people who aren’t old and white, and think that fact-checking is for losers. 

  • libraryshortcake

    Caller Steve says “we can appear reasonable.” This is representative of a lot of Republican reaction I’m observing- asking how do we APPEAR reasonable, change the MESSAGE people are getting? If they want to be accepted in current day America, they need to BE reasonable and change policy stances, not just use smoke and mirrors and spin messaging to try to sway voters.

    • 1Brett1

      Yes, as if “reasonable” were a strategy. I’ve also been hearing that it was the “messenger” this time; so, as if they can just change messengers and keep the same message, everything will hunky dory…

      • Michele

         You don’t actually expect Republicans to change their beliefs or compromise their “values”, do you?

  • ttajtt

    Capitalism is the republican way, maximize out put, growth.  its all push now.   i think R. Nixon lost his job because he pulled out of the war.   i liked him, his and reagan way still strong? yes.   market of the earth and going new-world moons way.   they need to spread out the strengths, white – blue – red neck classified-nation workers.   act like it at lest.  republican and tea are to close to call two parties.

    i’m for one of each next election day.  plus VP 

                                Democrat
                                Republican
                                Independent
                                wigs
                                 ?

    and maybe a five partys’ to vote from.   whom’s the perfect ones.        

  • libraryshortcake

    Bill O’Reilly actually sounds like a white supremacist bemoaning the demise of the “white establishment,” and suggesting that Hispanics, Blacks, and women feel “entitled.” It shocks me that in this day and age he still has a following beyond the KKK and extreme racists.

    • Derick_Mickles

      92% of Black People voted for Obama solely because he’s half black. Anti-Semitism in Mexico is rampant. Do you feel that Blacks and Hispanics have racist components to their groups or is just White People? I’m curious.  I wonder if I could go to Mexico and get free health care and schooling after breaking into their nation illegally? Could I go to an African country and win as a white political candidate? Hmmm. America is a very racist place, and nowhere else will you find this kind of racism. Remember when Zimbabwe fought a civil war to stop the attacks on white farmers? That was very egalitarian. We could learn something from them.

      • libraryshortcake

        Yes I agree that racism exists among Blacks, Hispanics, and other groups- African Americans toward Haitians, Puerto Ricans vs. Dominicans, Africans from one country or tribe against Africans from other countries or tribes. Costa Ricans against Nicaraguans. There’s no shortage of racism (and yet I’m generalizing- none of this is across the board).

        I’ve actually gotten free or nearly free health care in Mexico, Nicaragua, Mali, and other countries, but that’s another tangent.The thing is, it is historical fact that the “white establishment” O’Reilly speaks of has oppressed other racial groups for hundreds of years- through colonialism, slavery, Jim Crow, racism, support of dictators, supporting coups of democratically elected leaders, and so on.It’s not that demographics have changed and now it’s time for “revenge.” It’s just that this history of “white power” has created a legacy of “white [male] establishment” leaders, in politics, in business and in decision making. It has left so-called minorities per capita less educated, underpaid, with less access to capital and finance, with poorer health care and schools, and this is changing VERY slowly over generations.
        Just because we have a President who is a man of color doesn’t mean the legacy of the past is erased and the playing field is equal.Oh, and I agree you probably couldn’t go to most other countries and become president because you wouldn’t be a native of the country or culture. The US is unique in that we are a melting pot of so many different people. I’ve noticed in Latin America though, that by and large the elite class with privilege and power have much lighter skin color (European blood) than the darker skinned natives that are often treated as inferior.

        • Derick_Mickles

          Thank you for your kind reply. I disagree with you on some points but it’s of little matter. All folks in power dominate and used dirty tricks. It’s the nature of power. The difference is, this nation could have wiped out all minorities but didn’t. It pulled out a place at the table–even if through a long struggle. Minorities have the power now. The world is watching. Prove the racists wrong. Good Luck. 

      • jefe68

        Why is that right wingers on this forum are so prone to hyperbolic inanity?

        What the hell does what happened in Zimabawe have to do with our country? Are you equating White rule there with what happened in this country?  Bill O’Reilly is a rube of the first order, period. He’s a blow hard, has a big mouth and thinks he knows better. He does not. Antisemitism alive and well right here in the US, always has been. That you don’t see it or witness it is neither here nor there.

        • Derick_Mickles

          Why is it you tend to call anyone you don’t agree with “insane?” No, I’m not making a direct equation. I’m pointing out that in spite of this nations short comings and history of racism, we’re far more egalitarian than any other nation in history. It’s always the good guys who take the hardest beating. 

          I would like to thank you for your caustic and mean spirited reply. Another example for others in this nation of how a Conservative speaks his mind, and a Liberal beats him over the head. And somehow conservatives have the reputation for being cruel. Amazing. 

          • 1Brett1

            So, your “point” in your reply to libraryshortcake was that “the US is far more egalitarian than any other nation in history”? 

            Do you expect anyone to believe this? 

            If a reasonable person were wanting to make that point, he/she would say so. Instead, you started out with, “92% of Black People voted for Obama solely because he’s half black.” You ended with quite a crescendo: “America is a very racist place, and nowhere else will you find this kind of racism. Remember when Zimbabwe fought a civil war to stop the attacks on white farmers? That was very egalitarian. We could learn something from them.”

            It seems, that if you were trying to make the point you say you were making, you had quite an unusual way of making it.  Let’s face it, Derick, you weren’t trying to make that point, and when jefe called you out on the point you were making you pretended you were making a point you really weren’t making, and you went back into your one-trick-pony of how mean everybody is toward. At least Gregg feigns persecution better than you do…

          • Derick_Mickles

            This is the way people in my culture communicate. Maybe you should educate yourself on the way a large part of this nation speaks. It’s 2012. Don’t be a bigot. 

          • 1Brett1

            “This is the way people in my culture communicate.” This explains a lot, Derick. 

          • jefe68

            This is the way people in my culture communicate.

            You don’t say…

          • Derick_Mickles

            “You can’t stop what’s coming. Anything else is vanity.”

          • 1Brett1

            Derick, you also said this, “It’s always the good guys who take the hardest beating.” This also doesn’t make sense within the context of your reply to both jefe and libraryshortcake. If by    ”the good guys,” you mean the US, then you beat on the US pretty hard in your reply to libraryshortcake. I’m not sure what you mean by “hardest beating”? But if you mean more generally that we tend to criticize our own country more than we do other countries? So? If you mean other countries don’t criticize us or themselves like we criticize ourselves? So, what? In fact, no matter how I think of your replies, I fail to see what your point is beyond some kind of provocative vitriol designed to bully the other commenters.

          • Mike_Card

            Meet Mr. Dictionary.  He can point out the difference between “inane” and “insane.”  It will be valuable for you to know that when you reach high school and begin to prepare for the SAT.

          • Derick_Mickles

            I didn’t graduate High School. I had to quit to support my family. Thanks for treating me as a sub-human because you were more lucky than I. 

          • jefe68

            I have a good mind to join a club and beat you over the head with it…

            Well you do seem a bit off color and out of sorts. Speaking of history, well lets not… as you seem to have little need of it.

            By the way your comments are inane, not insane. Which means they are vacuous, foolish, and senseless.
            If you want to fain insane I’m OK with that.

  • Ryno

    Geesh… I hope the GOP follows Richard Viguerie’s advice.  The Democratic party is so disorganized our only hope is that the GOP destroys itself.  :-)

  • http://www.facebook.com/bronwyn.fryer.37 Bronwyn Fryer

    Also interesting that when Mitt Romney started sounding like a moderate he did much better in the polls, but by then he’d twisted himself into such a pretzel nobody believed a word he said. 

    • TomK_in_Boston

      They told us what they were going to do, “shake the etchasketch” after the primaries. They were shocked to find that some Americans have memories.

  • http://twitter.com/BocaRatso Boca Ratso

    This video is the death rattle of a numb, misguided and irrelevant political party.  Shame, really.

    • Derick_Mickles

      Obama got 2 million more votes in a nation of over 300 million, and it’s a “death rattle?” That’s not realistic at all in my opinion. The Democrats are doing a fine job of overestimating the results of the election and for that I’m very grateful. I’m crossing my fingers they do such a good job of angering half the nation, and overstepping their mandate that a measily 3 million switch sides next cycle. 2 million fewer votes means death of an entire party. LOL! That’s funny.

  • Derick_Mickles

    Had Ron Paul been the candidate I honestly believe the Republicans would have won by a landslide. Ron Paul made Mitt Romney look like a radical Left Wing Liberal. 

    • TomK_in_Boston

      Hahaha….that reality distortion field is even stronger than I thought :)

      • Derick_Mickles

        Hahaha…ditto! 

    • hennorama

      Trying to be gently polite and forthright here, and not snarky, OK?  There is a fine line between honest belief and self-delusion.  You may want to get a professional’s opinion as to which side of the line you are on.

      • Derick_Mickles

        You live in a bubble. What would you know? Not trying to be mean. It’s just that you’ve not been in the nation long enough to understand where real power resides. You watch too much media is my guess. There’s a type you don’t believe exists, but it does, and in legion. It’s not a joke, but you go on believing that it is. 

        http://youtu.be/Ia0HUBWdDkU

  • 1Brett1

    “The people who twisted Mitt Romney into a pretzel and put cement shoes on his feet are now blaming him for drowning.” 
    -David Frum

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    10.5M fewer voters in 2012 vs. 2008

    1.3M  fewer voters for Romney than McCain.  Hard to believe.

    Negative campaigning can work to suppress vote.

    • 1Brett1

      So, in response to this show’s topic, this show’s leading question of, “What’s next for the GOP?” Your answer is this? 

      • WorriedfortheCountry

        Yes it was apropos.

        Understanding why you lost is relevant, eh?

        The GOP has problems. So do the Dems.

        • 1Brett1

          While understanding why you lost is relevant, understanding why you posted your comment is NOT. If there were 10.5 million fewer voters and 1.3 million fewer voters voted for Romney than McCain then, of those fewer voters, 9.2 million were fewer voters for Obama. So, what’s your point? Based on these numbers, your accusation is that these numbers reveal why your side lost, so to speak, and that these numbers have a direct causal relationship to negative campaigning. You provide no causal relationship between these numbers of yours and negative campaigning…It might take you some time to figure out why you lost, particularly in the way you are going about analyzing the election.  

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Typically an incumbent President grows his vote.

            I felt the Romney campaign was inept — starting in the primaries.  And yes, there are many other self inflicted wounds created by the GOP.  The high point in the campaign was the 1st debate which was 100% on Romney.  No filters.  No campaign spin.

            The Obama campaign was built around destroying Romney’s character.  They’ve admitted as much and they appeared to pay no penalty in the vote.  Maybe they will in governing.

            btw – a good campaign can flip negativing campaigning against their opponent.  Romney’s campaign never did that.

            What is your explanation for the reduced turnout?

      • TomK_in_Boston

        C’mon, 1Brett1, our resident righties have done a fine job of responding to the topic. Clearly, the answer is, “More denial and self deception”.

        Hey nota, this will make you feel better. Take a deep breath and repeat at least ten times

        SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN

      • Derick_Mickles

        The only real solution at this point is to turn all control over to the Democrats and let them make a mess of things. It’s like catching a kid smoking a cigarette. Make them smoke a whole pack, and they’ll never do it again. With this economy it won’t be hard to show old TV Shows and Movies and then have people look around them at the crumbling infrastructure and society around them to convince them they made the wrong decision. Thank God for photographs and moving pictures. Proof, that it used to be better, forevermore. One day kids will ask: Why don’t we have that now Daddy? And those kids will grow up and make it so. 

        • jimino

          Do you even live in the USA?  One does not need old movie and TV shows to see the crumbling infrastructure we have as a legacy of the “government-is-the-problem” crowd. 

          • Derick_Mickles

            My family has been here since 1763. We built this nation. 

          • jimino

            Wow!  All by yourselves? 

            If you don’t see the poor infrastructure the “starve-the-beast” mentality has left us I seriously challenge your powers of observation.  Or maybe you just don’t get out much.

          • Derick_Mickles

            Most of the roads I drive on are gravel or dirt.  And yes, we’ve suffered greatly for this nation; fought in all wars.

          • Steve__T

             NAME THE WAR YOU FOUGHT IN NAME IT, NAME IT NOW!

          • Derick_Mickles

            Vietnam, 11th Cav. ACR, LRRP’s. 3rd Squadron. 68′-69

          • Steve__T

            No such think as 4th troop

          • Derick_Mickles

            Yes, there was. You don’t have the security clearance to check it out, obviously. How much do you really think is out there on the operations out of Blackhorse or the 44th Operation Area? Does your DD214 read N/A in the Security Clearance box? I’m willing to bet it doesn’t. Maybe go look up the history of Patton and his 11th Cav. LRRPs. There’s not much out there on it, because the only ones you’ll know about are the ones who were compromised. I’m not talking about the Ranger LRRPs. I’m talking about the originals, under Project Delta. Blackhorse Commo Bunker was the nerve center for CIA SOG and LRRPs in the late 60′s. It was a tiny center compromising two Magic 7 Commo Vans surrounded by 55 Gallon Dums. 43 years is a long time, but this much is verifiable. 

          • Derick_Mickles

            If you want to even try and understand some of the things I’ve been talking about, then take the time to watch this http://youtu.be/5gnpCqsXE8g

            Now you ask yourself: “Where did Obama’s Grandparents get the MONEY?” 

            I’m pretty sure you won’t, but at least I can say I tried. 

          • Derick_Mickles

            Any other questions, Princess? 

          • Steve__T

             Troop and HQ name

          • Derick_Mickles

            4th, Blackhorse. Now, where did you serve? 

          • Steve__T

            That’s USCGC Minnitonka

          • hennorama

            Must…control…fingers…replies…too…obvious…and…numerous…must…ignore…we…built…this…straight…line…

          • Derick_Mickles

            My family has done more than it’s fair share. Are you dishonoring all that we have done to bring this nation to this day? 

          • Derick_Mickles

            I’d like an answer, especially on this Veterans Day! How long has your family been here? My family builds this nation and yours comes here accepting the gratuitous invitation to enjoy all that we’ve laid out for you–to join with us and continue the building–and this is how we get repayed? Are you kidding me? Who do you think you are? I can’t remember the time another person slapped me in the face and I was happy about it!

          • hennorama

            A breathtaking display of attacks without the facts. As your question indicates, you have no idea about my background, nor when those I have descended from entered either North America or what is now the USA. Yet you lash out about “all we’ve laid out for you.”

            It would be laughable if it weren’t so pathetic. I’m not sure if you deserve pity or ridicule, frankly. Perhaps both in equal measure.

            I’m left longing for an [Ignore] button.

          • Derick_Mickles

            WHEN!!!??? WHEN DID THEY COME? ANSWER!

            NOW!

          • jefe68

            Well now we poor immigrant folk are mighty grateful to you and your kin folk for felling all those trees and killing a whole load of indigenous people making it easy for us to farm. As well as building all those roads, and schools and towns, cities and ports, the airports, shipyards, and factories. Why if it wasn’t for your family I doubt America would exist. I say we get your mug up on Mount Rushmore or at least a statue in Central Park.

          • Derick_Mickles

            You’re a spoiled child, playing with fire. Nothing more. No sense of history. No sense of human decency. You really believe it won’t amount to anything I’m sure. Have fun kid. 

          • Derick_Mickles

            How dare you! Our blood is in this soil! 

          • 1Brett1

            How dare you make me laugh so hard! My humorous comments are built on the blood of replies! WHEN DID YOU TYPE THIS? WHEN? I WANT ANSWERS! NOW! –Wait, it was about an hour ago, sorry… You’re playing right into my hands as someone who wants to expose you as clever and occasionally humorous! Keep it up! ;-)

          • hennorama

            (Cleaning off screen post-spit take) Damn you for causing me to waste even a drop of fine Tennessee sour mash whisky! How dare you? Oh the humanity … (or rather “Oh the profanity …!”)

          • Derick_Mickles

            You still haven’t answeredthe question.Coward. 

          • 1Brett1

            Why, whereisthegloveslap?

          • jefe68

            Wow…..

          • Derick_Mickles

            You’re insulting and not an American. You just spit on the grave of everyone who made this nation what it is. Scum. 

          • 1Brett1

            No, just the graves of your ancestors! Please, enough hyperbolic chest beating, Mickles.

          • jefe68

            Derick are you really fore real here?  If so you are one very sick puppy.

          • Derick_Mickles

            Buddy-boy, when it comes to insulting the men and women who’ve gone through combat to protect and build this nation, no. I’m not. You’re one sick puppy to assume as much as you seem to, and to dishonor the folks you do. Be careful watching your pop-culture as you seem to. It’s not reality.

          • jefe68

            Oh the humanity!
             

          • 1Brett1

            However, you provide no proof. All sorts of people came to this country; some were scoundrels, some were ne’er-do-wells…

          • jefe68

            Ahh, inbreeding. That explains a lot. You should get out more. Maybe a nice stroll in the woods or something. Or, better yet you could build something… such as a notion, or a sand castle.

            Well my family has been here since 1923, and they built pastrami sandwiches!

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            “Not everyone can beeee as American as weeee…

            (After all, we came over on the Mayflower!)

            Take an Indian to lunch!”

            h/t Stan Freberg

          • Steve__T

             My family was here to greet you, in friendship. You killed them and took their land. Go away, my family’s blood cries out Murderer!  You have no place here.

            Rahtentyes Kenra:ken Ron:kwe.

            Translation: Leave white man.

        • 1Brett1

          You’ll get yourself into a nonsensical rant pretty quickly, there, Derick. Aside from that, you seem to answer every comment with some variation of “anarchy is the way to a better society.” 

          I know, I know, I’m “playing right into your hand” and plot to “expose to the world just how mean liberals are.” 

          Thanks for being the new resident lunatic here, and I’m sure notafeminista, Gregg, ‘Worried’, StillHere, etc., thank you, as well; you make them seem like reasonable adults interested in fair discourse. 

        • jefe68

          Wow. You need professional help.

          • Derick_Mickles

            Professionals are on the way. Quiet ones, but not for me Red. 

          • jefe68

            So, where do you usually go to be insulted?

          • Derick_Mickles

            You really think being insulted bothers me? LMAO! 

      • jefe68

        They need to go through the denial first. Then it’s going to be anger. I doubt the right will get to bargaining, depression or acceptance, that’s to much like the Democrats.

    • hennorama

      Worried, would you mind posting your source?  I ask only because the vote totals reported range pretty widely.  For example,  Nate Silver has the total count at 122.769 million, which is down 8.884 million from 2008.  Also, there are still several MILLION votes that haven’t yet been counted in California, Oregon, Washington, Arizona and other states.  This is mostly due to the large numbers of mail-in ballots in CA, OR and WA.

      I wouldn’t draw too many conclusions yet from these preliminary totals.

      Source:http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/12/turnout-steady-in-swing-states-and-down-in-others-but-many-votes-remain-uncounted/

      • WorriedfortheCountry

         I heard these numbers on the radio this afternoon and they were up to date as of 9am today according to the source.  I think he got the numbers from AP but I’m not certain.

        • hennorama

          OK, thanks.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

             It was a guy who goes on TV a lot during election season and likes putting #s on a small white board.

          • hennorama

            I will refrain from calling him by the nickname the most recent former President hung on him, tempting though it may be. I also will refrain from laughing out loud at his recent tantrum, but I am smiling widely. I will however simply say “Consider the source.”

          • WorriedfortheCountry

             I can appreciate the dough boy being a punching bag.  However, I didn’t think he threw a tantrum on election night.  We was simply raising a concern.  What was the downside?

            btw – we got a TV bonus of cameras following the talented Megyn Kelly down a long corridor out of it.

          • hennorama

            I hear ya. One person’s tantrum is another’s concern. Tomato, Clamato. And he’s a “dough boy” in more ways than one – how much money did he squander?

          • WorriedfortheCountry

             $300M?

            Apparently he took no fees.  All pro bono work.

          • JGC

            Megyn Kelly…I read she has holographic lips.. is that true, or even just  truthy?

          • Derick_Mickles

            When did your family arrive here? Did they build this nation from nothing? Answer! Stop dodging the question. 

          • Ray in VT

            This is the second time that I’ve seen you post something like this to this person?  Who cares when someone’s family got here?

      • WorriedfortheCountry

         Also, I take your point that all the vote isn’t in.  Maybe Romney will get close to McCain?

        However,  independent of Obama’s # I would have predicted Romney blowing out McCain #s.

    • JGC

      I went on the CDC site Fast Facts, and generally, 2.5-million Americans die each year (2009: 2.4 million, and in 2011: projected 2.5 million).  Most of the people dying will be of voting age, and lets split it 50:50 for who votes Republican and who votes Democratic. But the trend is for the youth vote to go Democratic with their huge turnouts in recent years, while the Republican Party is trending older, and presumably more of their stalwarts are on life-support. It is not just negative campaigning; otherwise how can a more enthusiastic Democratic turnout be explained, when the Romney campaign and minions had access to more negative advertising purchase power?  I have no difficulty in seeing where the missing 1- to 3- million voters went over the past four years: to their Just Reward.  The problem with the Republican Party is they haven’t quite figured out how to hit the Refresh button again.

      • JGC

        P.S. But they will.

        • DrewInGeorgia

          God I hope not.

      • WorriedfortheCountry

         Well, Reagan won the youth vote by 45 points in 1984.

        Something is broken.

        Romney did win the 30+ vote this year.

        • JGC

          This is exactly what David Frum was saying: the Reagan youth vote won in 1984, but hey, we are now 30 years on. Those Reagan youth are entering their Medicare years. And it is not a happy confrontation for me;  my mom (is) and my dad (was) were two Republican voters (and both veterans: Army, and Army Nurse Corps.  Thank you for your service, on Veteran’s Day…)   She is still voting loyally, but insists on making it to the polls herself, she doesn’t want to deal with absentee voting. But it is hard, really hard, to change your patterns when you are in your 9th decade. I don’t mean just who you vote for, but the whole process of how you vote. That is another reason why it was so disconcerting for Pennsylvania to change their voter proof law. Something is definitely broken.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

             What is wrong with the PA voting changes (they didn’t take effect this year btw)?

            You know the UN monitors issued a report and are in disbelief that photo ID is mandatory and universal.  The rest of the civilized world requires photo ID.

            I can’t believe I agree with the UN.

          • JGC

            It was only declared late in the process- and do you know any old people? – they really hate change.  So much for Obama’s message from 2008!  I don’t mind photo I.D.   You don’t mind photo I.D.  But there is a whole faction of elders who have trouble processing the whole ball of wax; it has to be phased in. But the more pertinent point to this topic is that it affects the Republican voter share, more than the Democratic, at least in states like Pennsylvania.  

  • WorriedfortheCountry

     2012 electorate  53% female  47% male

    Identical to 2008.

    Interesting.

  • Derick_Mickles

    White, Male, Rural folks are now the minority, and the “protected class.” It’s well past time that this nation understand the struggles of these people and stop using the “R” word.  

    • jefe68

      Poor white males. You know what I’m crying crocodile tears here.

      • Derick_Mickles

        I know. That’s why I’m here. :) It’s comin’. 

        • jefe68

          So wait, your a white male who lives in some rural area who is Jewish and I think you also mentioned that you don’t have a college education or something to that effect.

          Right….

          What’s comin’? The ides of March…

  • http://twitter.com/NSegar Nichelle Segar

    Republican politicians need to start offering better solutions to how they’ll grow the manufacturing sector. Tax cuts are nice but if you give them to companies that both offshore and don’t offshore, where’s the incentive to keep the jobs in America? If you cut individual tax rates, how do you ensure demand grows for American made products and not those made in China?

    How about backing these polices:

    1) No corporate tax for companies that only manufacture in the US.

    2) From now on, high tech devices, vehicles and other durable goods that get sold to Americans must be made by Americans. (And if Apple doesn’t like this, it can deport itself)

    3) Raise tariffs on imports so that trade is fair.

    Under Obama, manufacturing is coming back so Republicans are going to have to rebrand themselves as protectionists if they want to win my vote.

    • hennorama

      U.S. Manufacturing as a percentage of GDP is also rebounding.  In fact, it broke a 25 year downtrend in 2009.  Here’s a chart:
      DataSource:http://www.bea.gov/iTable/index_industry.cfm

    • DrewInGeorgia

      “how do you ensure demand grows for American made products and not those made in China?”

      Hi Nichelle great question, I wish someone had a feasible answer. Please allow me to introduce you to my ol’ friend Catch 22. The most direct way to grow demand for American Made Products is to reduce prices. Americans buy so many goods manufactured overseas because they are generally cheaper. Stagnant (if not regressive) wages for the average worker the past several decades in combination with financial incentives to businesses who offshore have killed the Made In The USA brand. So where does the Catch 22 come in? Initially the price of American made goods would have to be substantially higher. In order to purchase more expensive goods American Workers would have to be paid a higher wage. Paying a higher wage would increase prices which would decrease demand. It’s one heck of a small box we’ve placed ourselves in and its going to take some serious work and sacrifice by all Americans to climb out.

      In response to your three propositions:

      1) Many companies with overseas manufacturing currently manage to achieve nil or close to nil effective corporate tax rates through the miracle of creative accounting. First we’d need to address that.

      2) Haven’t you heard? Corporations can’t afford to train the workers they would require to achieve this goal. The Big Bad Government is supposed to take care of educating the serfs, err, I mean workers, so that the Corporate Profit Margin can continue on its limitless growth curve. Ditto for benefits.

      3) Try telling Americans they can no longer get those supposed ‘rollbacks’ on prices they like so much from their beloved Walmart. Good luck with that, no sarcasm implied.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Spencer-Doidge/1223386779 Spencer Doidge

    28 minutes in, I have to leave. So far Frum gets it. The rest are so immersed in their mentality that new information has no way to get in. They are not only not listening, they *can’t* listen. I’m saying this as a 68 year old white male veteran who has worked his tail off to feed himself and his family for 50 years.

    • Derick_Mickles

      • 1Brett1

        This is perhaps the most coherent comment you’ve made on this forum…maybe there’s hope yet. Who knows, maybe your ellipses will become no comments at all?

        • Derick_Mickles

          I’ll be here. I always have been Brett. 

  • Joseph_Wisconsin

    I wonder if the photograph NPR selected for this story was selected with irony?  I mean the ethnic makeup is spot on with the current demographic of Republican support at this time, the age is all off.   Anyway .  . .

    Richard Viguerie and Brent Bozell were both real hoots.  I do hope the Republicans fall in step behind those Pied Pipers. March their party off into oblivion.  The more rational two voices on this program were trying to get the message out, but these two persist with a fetish about Ronald Reagan that so many Republicans have, but it is an imaginary Ronald Reagan that they have built up in their minds.  The Tea Party Republicans that both Viguerie and Bozell think will be the saviors of the Republican Party were, when it comes to economic issues, driven by a number one by a cry of, “The Deficit Sky is Falling.” That was, besides “don’t you hate Obama,” the primary economic message of Romney’s campaign.  The trouble is Reagan never ran as a deficit cutter.  Quite the opposite.  Reagan told people that the government could spend, spend, spend, primarily on military direct and in the private sector, but in general across the board, and also cut taxes so much that deficits exploded.  Talk about running as Santa Claus.   I won’t even get into how Viguerie and Bozell seemed trapped into the fantasy that on social issues the Republican positions that were “Morning in America” in 1980 are not now evening in America among voters under 40.

    I actually enjoyed the discourse during the latter half of the show among the two guests who are at least rooted in reality. They actually talked seriously about what has happened over the last thirty years with respect to income distribution, wealth accumulation at the top, and how America has become less an economically mobile society than those social democratic countries that Republicans (boo! hiss!) hate so much.  These are  the real driver for the resulting problems with deficits and taxes that people are arguing over.  I know that some of the high volume right wing posters here will probably dispute that there problems are real, but all I ask is that they step out of the “alternate reality facts” universe that David Frum warned about and they will see the truth.  The thing is neither the Republicans nor the Democrats have really come up with solutions to these problems, but at least the Democrats are trying.  I do not see how lower taxes on the wealthy and cutting spending and social programs will do anything to allow low to middle income families to have health care, see their children able to have a quality education including college, and retire with a decent standard of living including health care.  It will not lead to improved wages for people who work for others, and this will always be the vast majority of working adults.

  • NewtonWhale

    “What’s Next For The GOP?”

    My first thought was “who cares”?

    On deeper reflection, I’m going with “oblivion”.

    How does that work for you?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joshua-Hendrickson/1652586055 Joshua Hendrickson

    I can’t imagine a less relevant topic.  It’s a fact that Republicans lost every Presidential election since 1992 with the exception of 2004 (2000 was infamously stolen from Gore by the reactionaries on the Supreme Court; even 2004 could be disputed, considering the scandals in Ohio), and redistricting/gerrymandering is largely responsible for their hold on the House.  Republicans remain the party of choice for the aging, terrified and largely bigoted white male constituency, but their days are literally numbered.  Gradually, progressivism is growing and the demographics of the future promise a long period of ascendancy for the liberal attitude to both social issues and the economy.  So, with the thriving little mammals enjoying the fireworks of the meteor strike, why worry about what the dinosaurs plan to do in their dying days?  Let’s have a show about the progressive possibilities for the 2nd Obama term, the greening (or otherwise) of the Democratic party, and other forward-looking subjects, rather than studying fossils that haven’t yet had the decency to bury themselves.

    • Major914

      No. Democrats remain the party of clueless homoerotic whimps who live in a psychic bubble of impoverished materialism–and can thus never rise above such pathetic vistas as are limited to race, class, gender, and, oh but of course, ‘sexual orientation’.
      What a terribly, terribly cheap and stultified perspective! Instead of delusionally dreaming that everything is ‘evolving’ or ‘progressing’, try simply growing up.

      • DrewInGeorgia

        wow.

        I doubt anyone reading your comment needs a belligerent bully with the mentality of a six year old to tell them to grow up.

        • Major914

          I have to doubt that someone who bothers to write such infantile twaddle as you’ve written has the reading comprehension of a six-year-old to begin with.

          But keep trying.

      • jefe68

        Interesting diatribe. So in your narrow dystopian world view people who are Democrats are impoverished clueless homoerotic wimps.

        Wow, there are words that I could use here, but you’re not worth it.

        • Major914

          Yes, at least a significant plurality of today’s Democrats are apparently …whimps, and mentally, spiritually impoverished materialists and post-modernists unable to move beyond a horridly shrunken outlook on life and the meaning of life–race, class, gender, race, class, gender, sex per se is ‘transcendent’ and baby killing is no crime.
                                                                           Stultified, fragmented, reductionistic, cheap. Unselfcritical Jacobins who can’t articulate a sufficient and coherent ultimate basis for their beliefs.

          • jefe68

            Again, nothing here but a hyperbolic diatribe.

          • Major914

            Even if that were so, it would obviously be quite substantially more than you’ve got…

            But you knew that already…

          • http://www.facebook.com/misterflak Mike Flak

            Major914—troll?

    • http://twitter.com/mis4mike Mike K

      I laughed more during this program than I can recall laughing at anything in the recent past. Good bye 1950s. Hello Internet culture. The future is not the rugged individual. It is the resilient network with no central control and no single points of failure. Beyond “small government” to “almost no government” and more voluntary mutual aid than welfare could ever provide. Just look at OccupySandy to see what happens when people work together to solve problems.

      The beginning is near.

  • Derick_Mickles

    Dedicated to those Americans following this Communist Administration. 

    “You’re moving through a different space 
    Where I don’t belong
    Elegance gold and silver 
    Superficial grace
    They’ll pervert you 
    Masquerade you 
    Pass evil as good taste
    They’ll chew you up and spit you out 
    And put you in your place”

    • Derick_Mickles

      God save the Republic. When they come, I’ll stand my ground. 

      • 1Brett1

        See, now, this is a troubling pattern you’re acquiring: replying to your own rather mentally unstable comments…you know sometimes medication can be warranted; no one would be ashamed of you if that were something you needed.

        • Derick_Mickles

          I love how worried about my opinions you boys are. You’re obsessed. Sick lads, the both of ya’. 

          • 1Brett1

            Good; you’re now playing the game we all want you to play. Keep loving how pathetic you think we are and saying how sick we are; this is precisely what we want you to say. We couldn’t have done a better job if you were a marionette and we were puppet masters!

          • jefe68

            No, I’m not worried about you.
            I’m finding you to be a huge joke.

      • jefe68

        Ah the true voice of the despotic patriot.
        Stand your ground for what exactly?
        When who comes?

        Buddy you sound like a nutter or your winding people up.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joshua-Hendrickson/1652586055 Joshua Hendrickson

    Interesting sidenote:

    Older white males voted mostly for Romney, just as they did for McCain, Bush, etc.  However, I belong to a local writer’s group.  At age 42, I’m definitely the baby of the group.  No one else in it is under 65, and several of them are in their 80s.  I can proudly claim that not one of these senior citizens voted for Romney.

  • hennorama

    The answer consists of 3 words – adapt or die.

    • Derick_Mickles

      Better be sure.

      • 1Brett1

        Now you’re answering yourself…you do know those voices inside your head are your own, don’t you? 

      • jefe68

        Better be sure or what?

    • Derick_Mickles

      How long as your family been in the US?

  • skeptic150

    As an independent, I read both platforms.  Too much Christian theocracy in the Republican’s for me to stomach.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      I think you were the only one to read both platforms.  No one ever reads those things unless they want to score political points.  Rarely do they translate into governing policy.  They are used to work up the partisans.

      For instance, the Dems removed the recognition of Jerusalem as the capitol of Israel  or  they rammed the God reference back into the platform despite most of the delegates didn’t want to.  Few votes changed.

      • jefe68

        So? I’m Jewish and this does not bother me one bit.

        • Derick_Mickles

          So am I.

          • jefe68

            Oh really? So how is it that you are spouting forth all this Christan Right rhetoric?

    • Major914

      Even if true, which it certainly is not, it would be light years better than the Democrat platform. The Democrat platform has too much institutionalized baby killing in it.

      • DrewInGeorgia

        Democratic platform herr fuhrer.

        • Major914

          They’re Democrats, but not all that democratic…

          Did you see the sham ‘vote’ at the Democrat National Convention?

          • Steve__T

              The sham ‘vote’ occurred at the RNC they almost rioted when they threw out the Ron Paul supporters.
            Their was no one running against President Obama in the DNC.
            You’ve got your conventions wrong.  

          • Major914

            No. Dems had 3 or 4 voice votes to add mention of God back into the official platform–angry rank and file were shown yelling ’No’, while leadership awkwardly steamrolled them.

            Dems are now Statists–the State is god, we have no god but the State… 

          • Steve__T

             Do you understand separation of church and state? Do you also understand that having “In God We Trust” on money is blasphemous?

          • Major914

            You’re perhaps an authority on blasphemy,…let’s hear it, what’s the scoop?

          • Steve__T

            Read  Tim 6:3-12

            “The demon in money is greed. Nothing can destroy human beings like the passion to possess.”

              Richard Foster

            Do understand that worship is usually understood
            to be any action a person is directed to do towards God,
            such as praying. However, there are additional meanings
            to the word worship. 

            extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object
            of esteem *worship of the dollar*
            Mat 6:24 (NIV) “No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the
            one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the
            other. You cannot serve both God and Money.”

      • jefe68

        Oh the inanity. Are you for real?
        A few facts, where good sex education and birth control is available abortions are going down. In the red states, such as Mississippi they are going up. Oh one more thing, your comments are repugnant. 

        • Major914

          Are you really that utterly senseless, or are you intentionally obtuse?

          Abortion is the unjustifiable taking of an innocent human life. No other factor, real or imagined–no other data, accurate or inaccurate–has anything at all to do with that very simple and profound fact.

          Your inalienable rights come from God, not your mother, and not any government–otherwise you don’t have any real rights at all. Wake up!

          • jefe68

            My rights come from God?
            Silly me I should have known.

            So then we can bring back stoning and burning people at the stake then.
            How about trials for blasphemy?
            Drawing and quartering and while we are at it…  the Spanish Inquisition.No one expects the Spanish Inquisition! http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&NR=1&v=Tym0MObFpTI

          • Major914

            Actually, if your rights come from God, as they in fact must, then what you have is the United States of America as established by the founding fathers.

            If you imagine that it is instead the State which conveys rights, and thus necessarily can remove those so-called rights on a whim, then you have the French Revolution, the guillotine and the terror.

          • Major914

            PS: Flagrant and shameless baby-killing via legalized abortion–now virtually or actually celebrated by the Democrats–is even worse than the historical crimes you mention.

          • randomhookup

             Call it what you want, but it’s legal.

          • Steve__T

             You forgot the witch hunts.

  • Gregg Smith

    I hear a lot of naval gazing over the Hispanic vote. How do Republicans compete with a party who is willing to get what they want by any means necessary? President Obama suspended deportation for 800,000 illegals with an Executive Order. There was no debate, no vote and no law passed. He was asked directly about it on this show:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfZ3kaKZoIw

    If President Obama thinks “it can’t happen” then why did he do it? Answer: The end justifies the means… no matter what.

    I wish someone would justify the action of King Obama but one commenter on Friday’s thread failed miserably. It’s all there, a page down for everyone to see. I firmly believe ideology should never trump truth. I want the truth, Ideology be damned. For me that is not an empty plea. For others, not so much. That’s a problem, we will never solve squat until the debate is honest. But it’s worse than that, those who decry the very tactics they themselves employ are the most partisan of ideologues.

    • Derick_Mickles

      25 years of Federal Law breakers. Nobody has to follow the law anymore. 

    • jimino

      Weren’t you complaining when Obama did it that by doing so unilaterally he was stealing Rubio’s ideas and thunder.  So you’re FOR the idea, but AGAINST Obama implementing it?  Doesn’t sound like a principled position to me.

      • Gregg Smith

        No, I’m quite sure I made no comments on Rubio’s plan. It was someone else. 

        I happen to think the legislative process has a place. One of the Obamas thinks so too. I agree with that one.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Obama increased his African American voters by 200,000 in 2012.  How?  btw — this exceeded is victory margin by about 90K.  In other words, if he didn’t do that he loses.

    Here is an interesting deep dive into Ohio.  Lot’s of number — no real answers.

     http://washingtonexaminer.com/in-ohio-the-gop-puzzles-over-missing-white-voters/article/2513293#.UKGl8Ib4LqC

    • Gregg Smith

      Romney got zero votes in nine Ohio Precincts. Not one.

      • WorriedfortheCountry

         There were 59 in Philly.  19,605 to 0 in those wards.

        • hennorama

          One would expect, if one cared to look, one might find some precincts in Utah and elsewhere where Pres. Obama received zero votes.  No doubt someone will find a few, but they will no doubt get much less attention that the fraud/conspiracy theorists of the moment.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

             In the other thread I asked about Idaho. 

            Fraud is one explanation.  However, anyone cooking the books would have a few votes for the other guy.  Otherwise any Romney voter would instantly know about the fraud.  Could they be that stupid?

            Assuming it isn’t fraud what does this tell us about the homogeneity of  the voting population in that voting ward.  Are they ALL voting for status quo?  At <$20K median income?  Really?

          • hennorama

            Oh yes, Idaho – hadn’t considered that area.

            One would expect the demographics of these precincts are quite homogenous, so electoral homogeneity would not be very surprising. Drilling down in the election data will turn up all manner of anomalies. Nothing really new in any of this.

    • Derick_Mickles

      We’re just waiting on the Flashpoint. 

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  • http://www.facebook.com/Tony1954 Anthony Padilla

    I listened to your show this afternoon with guest Republican Richard Viguerie. He pontificated on the need for the party to embrace more Tea Partiers. Didn’t they do that during the primaries with Rick Perry, Rick Samtorum, Herman Caine to mention a few. That didn’t work out to well did it! Also, nobody on today’s show mentioned the fact that Reagan, and I heard his name bandied about allot, raised taxes 7 times during his 8 years. Why not?

  • hennorama

    One could argue the Republican Party’s 2012 results could have been predicted when they ousted Michael Steele from the RNC chairmanship in January 2011.

    He was cryptically prescient when he remarked to CNN “I think the people in the party, particularly the establishment, are breathing a sigh of relief.  They have control of the RNC now; let’s see what they do with it.”  When discussing how Karl Rove had attacked him in the Wall Street Journal prior to his ouster, Steele said “Karl’s been attacking me for years,” Steele said. “I think the reality of it is Karl doesn’t know what he’s talking about…”

    In the video in the linked clip, Steele goes on to discuss his approach and how it was different:

    “The other thing that we did, that a lot of the establishment folks like Karl and others don’t get, is that we not only took our volunteers and got them out there and engaged again, but they actually began to donate to the Party.  So a lot of small dollar donors came to the table as well.”

    Hmmm … engaged volunteers out in the community, small dollar donors … does this remind you of another political organization, one that was a tad more successful in 2012?

    Steele was right, and Rove and the other Republicans got it wrong.

    Source:http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/19/steele-gop-relieved-im-gone/

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      I went to college with Mr. Steele.   A very nice fellow. He means well but was a failure as GOP chairman (massive debt).  Now he is is gloating.  Gloating is never becoming.

      • hennorama

        It’s truly a small world, no? BTW – the remarks I quoted in my post were made by Mr. Steele way back in January 2011, not post-election 2012.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           Understood.  He took his lumps back then.

          I saw his ‘semi-gloating’ elsewhere today.  Probably  eager media hounds playing it up their own gloating than Steele.

    • Derick_Mickles

      You insulted all American Service People on Veteran’s Day. Your credibility is in the gutter. 

      • 1Brett1

        No glove slap? No, “pistols at dawn”? Will the new  ”you’re mean” meme of yours become, “you insult all Americans”? It seems so, or is this gem just for Veteran’s Day? 

      • Steve__T

        As a Vet I was not insulted, just you. You talk of creditability, but have none.

        • Derick_Mickles

          You’re not a veteran. You’re a REMF.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    A college student who gets it.

    Dems are smoke and mirrors.  GOP has work to do.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324439804578107410973408952.html?mod=rss_opinion_main#articleTabs%3Darticle
     

    • hennorama

      Yep, she gets it.  Adapt or die.  Deal with the reality of demographics, and get rid of the religious fundamentalists and the restrictive social agenda zealots.
      “Expand the base” is not just a tax topic.  It’s a basic political tenet that Republicans ignore at their peril.

    • jefe68

      The entire Romney campaign was smoke and mirrors.
      The Ryan budget plan is the very definition of smoke and mirrors.

      So one could say that most of the body politic of our nation is really only smoke and mirrors.

      George Carlin was saying that for years.

      • WorriedfortheCountry

         First time I’ve ever heard the Ryan budget referred to as smoke and mirrors.  Usually, the attack line is draconian and extreme.

        Get your talking points straight if you want to play team ball.

        btw – the Ryan budget was scored by the CBO and didn’t require CBO accounting tricks to make the math work.  That isn’t ‘smoke and mirrors’.

        • Steve__T

           It is when the game is OVER. You can argue all you want, about if my quarter back had played a button hook pattern and thrown a down and out, he didn’t so give it up.

        • Mike_Card

          You haven’t been listening.  The Ryan “budget” was never more than Ayn Rand fiction.

  • http://www.facebook.com/barb.loy.71 Barb Loy

    GOP is out of touch with the average Joe on the street. Minorities are the majority.  I feel these people want peace.  They are sick of politics, war, and want national health care. Plus they don’t want to think deeply about anything because they are too busy. 
     
    The new morality is “Be Nice.”  They don’t care about the specifics of religion or morality.
     
    They may not believe in homosexuality or abortion personally, but don’t necessarily care to impose those values on others. 

    Plus, the critical thinking skills of Americans are not improving, they vote on emotions.  Romney himself had little to do with losing the election. 

     Also, Republicans identifying with talk radio hosts who are rude, loud, obnoxious and not careful thinkers has really turned the young generation off.  They want no part of that.

    I’m Republican and I called this election correctly.  I said it is very much like the re-election of Clinton.  With all the facts that came out about the Clintons we didn’t think he could be re-elected, but he was.  It is not about facts, it is about having a modern compassionate image appealing to emotion, and being nice.

    The entitlements and taxes will increase and the middle and upper middle classes will adjust to a lower standard of living.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       The American Idolization of Presidential politics?

      “Be Nice”?

       But Mr. Axelrod and Mr. Obama were not nice and they were not punished by the voters.  Some random talk meisters must play nice but the campaign can smear?  Oh the paradox.

      • http://www.facebook.com/barb.loy.71 Barb Loy

        No, the campaign was not nice at all, but the President still kept the image of being the “compassionate, smart, nice guy.”  I don’t think it would have mattered who the Republicans chose to run against the President because he/she would have lost.  The Republicans are seen as racist, anti-women, homophobic, bigoted, hateful, lovers of everything rich and powerful, war-mongers, obnoxious, stupid, anti-progress, anti-environment, anti-civil rights, anti-union who want to impose their outdated morals/religion on the rest of society.  Since we already have that image, nobody has to prove we are this way, but just reinforce the fact that we are this way.  And unfortunately, we help them out.             

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          Thanks for your reply.  However, I disagree.  The Romney campaign made numerous errors and didn’t respond to viscous lies and attacks the entire summer.  They didn’t even respond to the lies and fantasies that Bill Clinton laid out in his convention speech.

          In the end, Romney only lost by 400,000 votes in 4 states.  It was much closer than it appears.

          I suspect that if the Akin debacle didn’t exist that would have been more than enough for Romney to defeat Obama.

          • jimino

            It could have been worse.  The Dems could have used the much more hyperbolic stuff used against Romney in the Rep primary, paid for by the same guy that was Romney’s biggest supporter in the general election (how’s that for intellectual honesty!?).

            As for Akin, getting recorded saying what he believed, like the Romney 47% talk, was bad, but that really IS what they think is true.  But again, it could have been much worse if more people actually had read the Rep platform.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

             Hi there.  Of course the 47% remark was baked in.  Obama hit on it pretty hard with a heavy MSM assist.

            However, you MUST know the 47% comments were taken out of context.  He was stupidly talking campaign tactics.

            It says much more about his campaign tactics than anything else.  He recognized that Obama was trying had to divide voters.  He should have been fighting for 100% of the vote given that he had a winning message.  His campaign mindset was too defensive.  Given he made the remark in May it isn’t clear when and if the campaign adjusted.

            Akin had a narrow win in a 5 way primary race.  Given the timing of his stupid remarks he should have just dropped out.  However, he was just another selfish politician.

          • Steve__T

             Would you stop making excuses for him, its gotten old and very stale. The election is over.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472204536 Joe Hart

    Richard Viguerie showed how the ultra right wing is out of touch with reality.  He argued that “moderates” like McCain and Romney lost because they weren’t right wing enough.  But they were certainly more right wing than the candidate they ran against.  How does his conclusion make sense?

    • Major914

      It does make sense. A majority of Americans are not quite enthusiastic, at the very least, about an ever-expanding regulatory State, an overtaxing-and-overspending entitlement State. But when conservatives fail to adequately articulate arguments as well as policies that thoroughly address our real problems–which do include growing income inequality, for example, as well as the vicious cycle of declining of morality with its widespread economic consequences–a portion of voters stay home, or slouch toward status quo Statism.

      The America of the founding fathers became the greatest, most free and prosperous nation in the history of the world in a brief 150 years. Does anyone believe that, on its current Statist trajectory, America will be a great nation 150 years from now?
       

      When Conservatives don’t adequately distinguish their foundational arguments, as well as their clear policy prescriptions, from that of Leftist-Statists, voters shrug…

  • http://www.facebook.com/sam.fuchs.7 Sam Fuchs

    The GOP should NOT make hasty decision at this point:
    It very hard to beat an incumbent president, when Bush won 2nd term, Dems didnt go out and change their agenda to appeal to conservatives.
    Immigration is not the reason they lost, but it doesnt help to have extreme conservatives insulting illegal immigrants. The key states were not controlled by Latino votes.
    The wealth of Mit during these hard time may have put off voters plus 47% statement that he never really apologized for.
    Get the crazies out of personal agendas
    The extreme conservatives like Orielly who say 50% of people want free stuff are only looking towards their own ratings and piss off many others.

     

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  • RobertME

    Paraphrasing Brent Bozell, [The only victory in 2008 that
    registered for Republicans was the marriage amendment].  Mr. Bozell then goes on to state in the next
    breath that an appeal to the Latin voters could be made in talking about “liberty”.
     This illustrates the essence of the
    confused Republican party platform.  They
    want to be small government champions of liberty… but reserve the right to tell
    citizens whom they can and cannot marry, and deny a woman control over her own
    decisions about her health and body… This is why Republicans are losing
    elections.  They cannot have it both ways!  … And the majority voters are not
    interested in hard- line, unidirectional policies!  

  • RobertME

    The Heritage Foundation propaganda piece is truly maniacal.  It also reflects the “strain” of rabid- right- wing delusional thinking that is driving the GOP toward obsolescence.  There is no acknowledgment of Obama’s clear victory, of majority rule, of the premise of compromise as a guiding principle in American Democracy.  It’s madness.  The ad (or whatever you call it) in essence states outright that they are at “war” with the President.  A group so certain of it’s ideological superiority is on it’s way toward fascism.

  • nlpnt

    The last three Republican presidents each almost doubled the deficit over their time in office. When and if they get another chance at the White House, they need to walk the walk instead of just talking the talk in opposition.

  • http://twitter.com/mis4mike Mike K

    LOL old people.

    Hey Anarcho-Libertarians! Let’s take over the Republican party. It should be easy if we start in New England. 

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  • henrietta11

    Why should we be trying to find ways for Repubs to have a comeback?
    Why not make sure that those we elected as Dems actually do what they were elected to do-to protect seniors,middle class ,students etc from mean-spirited and misguided policies of Repubs.
    The people have spoken and want Dems to represent us.Repubs DO NOT represent us.
    The time has long passed for false equivalancies and disproportionate pressure on Dems to “compromise”.
    It’s time to see Democracy in action.

  • http://www.facebook.com/matthew.quinn.794 Matthew Quinn

    The stream/download of this episode is not working, FWIW. Download is only the first 12:00.

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  • ExcellentNews

    A great discussion. Mr. Frum is right on the mark as to what sank the republican party, and his suggestions on how to fix it sound correct too. There is only one problem with it – if the republican party adopts these, it will become identical to what the Obama DEMOCRATIC party already does. Obama is not about welfare and crackpot left-wing policies (notwithstanding the corporate propaganda from the right). Obama and the Democrats are about opportunity, responsibility, hard work, education, investment, by Americans for Americans, EQUALLY for ALL.

    Welcome to the new Democratic party, Mr. Frum. Leave your former colleagues to hang out with that republican strategist who, at 23:58 said “we just need to sound as if we are reasonable…”, and who added women and minorities to the 47% of dependent victims…

  • ExcellentNews

    Romney a successful businessman? LOL… He inherited a huge lump of money and all the insider contacts of his father.  He then used them to gut and flip a string of declining businesses, dumping their retirees and employees on the taxpayer rolls and pocketing the resulting profit.

    THAT IS SUCCESS? Maybe America would be better off if such “successful businessmen” were treated under the provisions of the RICO or Patriot Acts, rather than glorified and put on the national stage. Because that is exactly the type of “successful businessman” that prospered under Bush, while our competitors abroad made real progress in real research, real industry and real investment.

  • Not So Young Democrat

     Jut listened to this podcast today and it’s so frustrating to hear all these people ignoring David Frum. 

ONPOINT
TODAY
Apr 17, 2014
Students cheer and wave as President Barack Obama, not pictured, exits the podium after speaking at the University at Buffalo, in Buffalo, N.Y., Thursday, Aug. 22, 2013, beginning his two day bus tour speaking about college financial aid.  (AP)

The inside dope on college financial aid. The way it really works, who gets what, and how.

Apr 17, 2014
Ultra-Orthodox Jewish men burn leavened items in final preparation for the Passover holiday in the ultra-Orthodox Jewish town of Bnei Brak, near Tel Aviv, Israel, Monday, April 14, 2014. Jews are forbidden to eat leavened foodstuffs during the Passover holiday that celebrates the biblical story of the Israelites' escape from slavery and exodus from Egypt. (AP)

In the week of Passover and anti-Semitic gunfire, we look at the history of the Jews with acclaimed historian Simon Schama. Plus, Pope Francis and the Catholic Church today.

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Apr 16, 2014
Harvard Business School is one of the top-ranked MBA programs in the country. Our guest today suggests those kinds of degrees aren't necessary for business success. (HBS / Facebook)

Humorist and longtime Fortune columnist Stanley Bing says, “forget the MBA.” He’s got the low-down on what you really need to master in business. Plus: the sky-high state of executive salaries.

 
Apr 16, 2014
A woman walks past a CVS store window in Foxborough, Mass., Tuesday, Feb. 7, 2012. The nation’s major drugstore chains are opening more in-store clinics in response to the massive U.S. health care overhaul, which is expected to add about 25 million newly insured people who will need medical care and prescriptions, as well as offering more services as a way to boost revenue in the face of competition from stores like Safeway and Wal-Mart. (AP)

Retailers from Walgreens to Wal-Mart to CVS are looking to turn into health care outlets. It’s convenient. Is it good medicine? Plus: using tech to disrupt the healthcare market.

On Point Blog
On Point Blog
Some Tools And Tricks For College Financial Aid
Thursday, Apr 17, 2014

Some helpful links and tools for navigating FAFSA and other college financial aid tools.

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How Boston Is Getting Ready For the 2014 Boston Marathon
Tuesday, Apr 15, 2014

Boston Globe metro reporter Maria Cramer explains how the 2014 Boston Marathon will be different than races in the past.

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WBUR’s David Boeri: ‘There’s Still Much We Don’t Know’
Tuesday, Apr 15, 2014

WBUR’s senior reporter David Boeri details the ongoing investigation into the alleged Boston Marathon Bombing perpetrators.

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