Week In The News: Obama Reelected, GOP Shaken, Nor’easter

Yar

Please tell me what I missed in the first debate when I thought our President did a good job? What should he have done differently and how would that have changed the electoral map? I think this election was decided by the end of the RNC after Governor Romney came across as Biff Tannen in Back to the Future. �
I have a new picture of our first family on my fridge. I am happy to have them in the Whitehouse for the next 4 years. Maybe, Michelle will take up the idea from Hillary and run for the office herself someday. �
The one question in the first debate we all know Mitt Romney had an answer to was his statement on the 47 percent quote. He surely was fully prepared to address that point. I think it was brilliant political chess for President Obama not to bring it up at all in the first debate, and to address it as his closing in the second after Mitt Romney gave him the perfect setup.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Joshua-Hendrickson/1652586055 Joshua Hendrickson

Good point on “political chess.” Obama, for all his flaws, is one smart cookie, with the kind of brains that Romney, who is not a Dubya-level dope, only wishes he had. Mitt is a CEO type, and frankly it doesn’t take a genius to pay attention to a bottom line. I can’t remember who said this so I’ll just paraphrase the quote: It isn’t hard to become rich; you have to be smart enough to make your millions and dull enough to want them in the first place.
- JAIBEEZ
  
  To be a CEO mainly requires a certain personality type- ENTJ- as defined by the Myers-Briggs assesement. These tendencies are not ideal for a political leader. Obama doesn’t need to run the country like a CEO, in fact, that will only hurt our SOCIETY.
  We are a society not a workforce.
- sickofthechit
  
  He is a terrible poker player, and is especially inept at a game called “Guts” He readily reveals his hole cards and starts out with his compromise position and never asks for the ideal first.
LinRP

Agreed.

And, man, could people stop harping about the first debate? Maureen Dowd in The Times cannot let it go. In the end, the playacting by Romney in the political theater called debates did not hold sway with the electorate. Whatever kind of “performance” Obama delivered on the debate stage, or didn’t, mattered little when the votes were counted.
- Don_B1
  
  @Yar_From_Somerset_Ky:disqus @LinRP:disqus @facebook-1652586055:disqus
  
  The “bump” (and that is ALL it was) was OVER by the second Obama-Romney debate. The “bump” was a combination of Obama’s not attacking Romney in the first debate and the overwhelming blow up by the MSM over the prospect of a narrowing gap in the polls as a result.
  
  All you had to do was note that the press would cite SINGLE poll results as they talked about Romney “momentum” building; it was cherry-picking at its worst.
  
  There were MANY poll aggregators which were showing Obama regaining his lead and pulling away in the state-by-state polls.
  
  But isn’t it fun to watch the Republicans come out with the knives, etc. against each other, worthy of a circular firing squad!
  
  Stephen Colbert got it right that “what changed the election was the nor’easter that hit on this Wednesday and Thursday after the election. And he was waiting for the returns to come in from Switzerland, the Cayman Islands and the invisible state of Whitesylvania.”
  - LinRP
    
    Great point, Don. Pleasure to read.
Roy-in-Boise

Yes indeed, I have been making the contrast between Mitt and Biff since the beginning of this race. The good news is that many other Americans made the connection also.
- Yar
  
  All the way down to the high school dance! He couldn’t help bragging the day after Ann’s convention speech that he had convinced Ann’s date to let him take her home in his car. Was this his first hostile takeover?

Michiganjf

Republicans John Boehner and Mitch McConnell claim “Americans voted for split government, and have returned power in the House to the Republican Party…”
�
The truth, however, is clear:
�
The voters gave Republicans a sound defeat, returned the Senate and the Presidency to the Democratic Party, and there’s ONE AND ONLY ONE REASON Republicans maintained a tenuous hold on The House of Representatives in 2012:
�
REPUBLICANS HAVE PRESIDED OVER THE LAST TWO DECADES OF REDISTRICTING!!!!
�
If Republicans hadn’t been able to GERRYMANDER district maps in their favor for almost 20 years, there’s NO WAY they would have retained control of the House!!!!
This advantage has been HUGE for Republicans!
In fact, it makes the Democratic victories/gains in 2006, 2008, and 2012 all the more IMPRESSIVE, as the victories came DESPITE RIGGED DISTRICT MAPS!!!!
�
If Dems retain power until the next round of redistricting, Republicans will see their influence wane even MORE DRASTICALLY AND MORE RAPIDLY!!!
�
In fact, this is LIKELY to happen!
�
I think America NEEDS a viable second Party, and for better or worse, Republicans ARE that second Party… unfortunately, they have allowed their worst and most obstructive, unproductive elements to hijack the Republican Party.
Losing even more influence will FORCE the Republican Party back to the CENTER and back to a semblance of SENSIBILITY.
�
When Republicans finally re-emerge and dig their heads out of the FAUX NEWS/LIMBAUGH/COULTER dirt, Americans will undoubtedly welcome them back into the political fold, happy to see them resume their role as productive, REALITY-BASED contributors to the American political conversation!
They can begin by FACING THE FACT that taxes WILL go up to a more reasonable level for the wealthiest in our country… PERIOD!
… and give up on the CONTINUED lie that raising taxes on the rich will hurt small businesses.
�
… until then, expect to see the Republican Party continue to lose ground, and lose control of the House as well… most likely in the next mid-term elections two years from now, or at least the election thereafter.

Don_B1

I saw the Congressional District maps for Pennsylvania that applied before 2000 showing about half Blue and half Red; after the all-Republican PA government redistricted in 2001, there were 2 Blue and 17 Purple and Red. This was made even worse with the 2011 redistricting where the number of districts was reduced to 18. This has happened while the voters handily voted for Democrats to win the Presidential and Senatorial offices in 2012.

See:

http://www.censusviewer.com/district-maps/2012/09/Pennsylvania-congressional-districts-comparison-2001-2011/

The Democrats lost a member in the House of Representatives in the 2012 election.

I wish I could find the two maps I saw in the TV program.
- NewtonWhale
  
  Democrats on track to pick up 7 House seats
  
  As of Wednesday morning, the Associated Press had called 192 seats for Democrats, and had them leading in another eight races that remain uncalled. The AP had called 233 seats for Republicans, and had them leading in two uncalled contests.
  
  http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1112/83501.html#ixzz2BjfyRtho
  - Michiganjf
    
    Yep, all Dems will need to do is pick off less than 20 House Republicans to start accomplishing the country’s work, and only 5 Republican Senators to thwart filibusters… can it be done, or are ALL Republicans still utterly intransigent?
  - Don_B1
    
    I realize my haste led to possible misinterpretation, if not by you, by others:
    
    The Pennsylvania delegation went from 6 Democrats to just 5 Democrats while the Republican portion remained at 13. This ratio is not reflective of the ratio of Democrats to Republicans, so by its lopsidedness, it has to be a result of Gerrymandering.
- Ray in VT
  
  The gerrymandering of districts is really quite absurd. Take a look at some of the lines in some states. Some of this is state produced, but I think that some of this has to do with attempts to ensure minority representation in proportion to their proportion in the general population. I think that Iowa’s lines are drawn by a non-partisan commission, and look at them. Clean lines (along county?) and competitive races (no winner had above 56.9%).
  - Don_B1
    
    I agree that Iowa is exemplary in this regard. Both sides have resisted the radicals in their party who have tried to put partisan control into moves to bias future elections.
    
    This is what the electorate must insist on for every state. It could be part of a federal requirement on registration of voters, early voting provisions, where districts with Democratic Party registered voter majorities are denied the voting time for all those who wish to vote.
    
    Anyone want to hazard a guess as to why the long voting lines occurred ONLY in states where the state governorship and legislatures are Republican controlled?
    
    ———–
    
    Obama’s total vote count was just over 60 million, some 3 million more than Romney (before the Florida numbers, I believe) whereas the total vote count for Republican members of the House of Representatives was some seven million LESS than Obama’s total vote count. And the Republicans think they can claim a mandate for themselves for anything?
NewtonWhale

Democrats picked up 2 Senate seats and at least 7 seats in the House, with some races still undecided.
- Ray in VT
  
  I’m surprised about a couple of the Senate races, like Montana and North Dakota, and I thought that the Democrats would pick up another 4-6 House seats. Most of the election outcomes were pretty well in line with what one could reasonably have expected based upon the best available evidence.
  - http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PQT2B4WBUSBIEELZXHDR6WLXFY Brian
    
    “The best available evidence.”
    
    Presumably, you were not listening to Dick Morris
    - Ray in VT
      
      Well, I did say best, so no. I did think that it was very interesting to see that so many of the polls that were maligned by some Romney supporters as being highly biased or inaccurate turned out to be pretty spot on.
Steve__T

North Carolina is a reflection of that, truly it was unbelievable to many how their districts no longer reflected representatives with their views. President Obama won in my county just barely.

1Brett1

I think it’s so beautifully ironic that chairman and chief executive officer of a Las Vegas casino, Sheldon Adelson, gambled $59 million of his own money on Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney and lost it all! It’s more ironic than Newt, Perry and all using Bain against Romney in the Republican primary then later having that used against him after the primary was over.

JGC

How did Rove explain it in the post-election conference call with his mega-donors?
- 1Brett1
  
  Karl Rove has a lot of explaining to do to the Koch Brothers for blowing $400 million of their money, or for blowing Sheldon Adelson’s $59 million…with that and his pathetic ass-covering attempts in the last few days, it looks like his days as the fair haired boy of political strategy are over…
  - MrNutso
    
    Lucy! You got some splainin to do.
  - JGC
    
    It was a very inefficient way to spend their money, and for poor results. Maybe there needs to be a new model devised for these titans of capitalism. Maybe they could hire Mitt Romney to study the spread sheets for the ways to cut the fraud and waste. They will undoubtedly analyze the methodologies of people like David Plouffe, Jim Messina and Nate Silver to adapt in time for 2014.
  - Yar
    
    I would like to see a comparison and contrast of Carl Rove with Jack Abramoff.�
    The house of cards comes tumbling down.
- Don_B1
  
  Rove is trying to blame Romney’s loss on Hurricane Sandy, but that is a real lame argument, even for Rove, the king of lame arguments.
  
  Poll aggregators, like Nate Silver, Sam Wang (Princeton), Drew Linzer, Pollster, etc., ALL showed the First Debate bump (not momentum) ENDED shortly after the second (V.P.) debate or the third (second presidential) debate.
  
  And Rove’s back-up “excuse” that Obama tried to “Suppress the vote” (???) is ludicrous in the extreme.
  
  But it is typical of Republican tactics: Do something despicable and then, either before you do it or simultaneously or whenever you are accused of doing it, say the opposition is doing it, even if they are not doing it, or if they are doing it in even a trivial way.
  
  Most of the time the Republicans are alone in using the despicable tactic. Rarely does the opposition do those things in anywhere near the same way.
- 1Brett1
  
  I can’t say, but if it was anything like the pathetic drivel he was squirmingly trying to sell on tv, it couldn’t have been good!

1Brett1

The election results helped a lot in perhaps making billionaires think twice about blowing their fortunes on trying to buy elections. It also served to show that the whole super pac thing might not be the best investment for the rich.

sickofthechit

When the wealthiest 20% of America owns 88% of our countries wealth a few Billion Dollars here or there is no big deal. They’ll just spend more, earlier next time.
- 1Brett1
  
  Yeah, you’re probably right…I was being hopeful and a behaviorist. Their behavior did not at least get reinforced…Citizens United has got to go…

Wm_James_from_Missouri

I have heard various figures on how much money was spent in this round of elections. Does anyone know the final figures? Does anyone think that the big money donors will be making the same mistakes next time around?
What do you think of this idea. Create a law that says: “ For every dollar given to a political campaign or political pact or political organization, the donor must donate an equal amount to, say, a children’s’ hospital or to a general purpose disaster relief fund ? “ Maybe we can convert all of that manure into food for a beautiful garden. I think I’ll name it, “Eden”.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Joshua-Hendrickson/1652586055 Joshua Hendrickson

That’s a nice idea, much too nice to be acceptable to average Americans.

I doubt if we can know “the final figures,” given that there’s no real pressure to divulge funding and its sources.
- Don_B1
  
  I believe that, in a too much delayed process, the donors, at least of amounts in excess of $200, do have to be reported to the FEC within six months.
  
  The problem is that some of the “donations” are in aggregated form.
Don_B1

@facebook-1652586055:disqus @Wm_James_from_Missouri:disqus

Check out the discussion from yesterday’s Radio Boston on Grassroots Democracy:

http://radioboston.wbur.org/2012/11/08/grassroots-democracy-campaign-finance-reform

This has prospects of fitting in with Lawrence Lessig’s Constitutional Convention approach to getting public finance of electoral campaigns.
- Wm_James_from_Missouri
  
  Thanks Don, I am listening to the show right now.
  I will tap into this station again. I love good talk radio.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Joshua-Hendrickson/1652586055 Joshua Hendrickson

Congrats to those states that voted to legalize pot and same-sex-marriage: welcome to the civilized world! My own state, Oregon, failed to legalize pot this time around, but the split wasn’t too wide, and maybe it will pass next time around. Same goes for same-sex-marriage. Oregon’s blue already; it ought to be a lot greener and a lot more lavender.

Shag_Wevera

I’ll smoke to that!
- Don_B1
  
  I hear, though I have no plans to ever try it, that vaporization is the latest way to get the benefits. It avoids the tar-in-the-lungs downside of breathing in smoke of any kind.
  
  I guess it is not as convenient, but I have never smoked anything.

SteveTheTeacher

Now that the election is over and Obama has been re-elected, its time for progressives to take action.

We need to:

Ensure that the Obama administration ends the practice of extra-judicial killings including Obama’s remote-controlled drone killing program. Further, the Obama administration must provide acceptable reparations to families of innocent civilians who were killed. I suggest civil disobedience Tuesdays –> Tuesday being the day when President Obama takes the decision about who he will have killed.

Ensure war crimes prosecution for all present and former federal, military, and judicial personnel who took leadership roles in the development and implementation of the US policies on torture, extra-judicial assassination, and detention without trial.
Bring about an end to repression against whistleblowers those who government critics like Bradley Manning and Wikileaks Julian Assange. Bring and end to Obama’s repressive use of the
National Defense Authorization Act and the material support for terrorism law against peace activists who criticize government policy.

Ensure that the government to focuses on promoting the well-being of the poor and working class, rather than cutting funding for social programs in the name of a “balanced budget.”

sickofthechit

How about charging Cheney with Cowardice and Treason for outing Valerie Plame then refusing to admit it and instead offering up poor little Scooter Libby? charles a. bowsher

Potter

The effect of so much money in these campaigns seems to have made an otherwise minority view into a much closer race than otherwise. You can see how our growing economic inequality endangers our democracy. A jerk such as Donald Trump yells that we have no democracy because he is a soreloser ( as many Republicans are) but he is clueless as to why this may very well be so… because of people like him ( although I have no idea what he gave) Adelson and the Koch brothers etc.

They may have lost this time…..and this barrage maybe has inured many in the electorate but be concerned.

Little to Show from Cash Flood by Big Donors

Ray in VT

There is a great cause for celebration that I think that we can all agree upon. I haven’t seen a political ad since Tuesday night.

DrewInGeorgia

I haven’t heard anyone complain about having to watch political ads in two days. Now if only Boehner would shut his pie hole and do his job…
- Ray in VT
  
  Pie hole? Is that some sort of cracker slang? — Airheads.
  - sickofthechit
    
    A “Pie-hole” is where you place a bite of pie, a-la-mode or not.
    - Ray in VT
      
      Mmmmm. I wish that my wife had baked that apple pie this week.
    - 1Brett1
      
      Man, I’d like a piece of some homemade apple pie right about now…you had to go there, Ray?
    - Ray in VT
      
      You’re welcome, Brett. Or I’m sorry. Whichever you prefer.
    - DrewInGeorgia
      
      Ya’ll are killin’ me! Mmmmm, pie…
      
      I should have called it for what comes out as opposed to what goes in:
      Poo Hole.
      Problem solved.
      
      Now bring me muh pie!
    - Ray in VT
      
      You probably expect that pie for free, don’t you Drew? Darn you 47%ers. Don’t you ever stop believing that you’re entitled to stuff.
    - 1Brett1
      
      …just had a piece of apple pie; it wasn’t homemade, though….
    - Ray in VT
      
      Well, it’s better than no pie, right?
    - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
      
      You owe it to yourself to try a pumpkin pie with pumpkin roasted from scratch.
    - 1Brett1
      
      right!

Ed75

The culture of death involves not only abortion, but euthanasia, embryonic stem cell research, restriction of religious liberty, and same sex marriage.

Apartheid South Africa couldn’t last because was gravely unjust. Slavery in the U.S. couldn’t last because it was unjust. The Soviet Union with the Gulags couldn’t last because it was unjust.

And we have elected a government that plans to establish the culture of death in our country. And it can not last.

The hurricane in the east, which wiped out Fire Island and downtown New York, which supports many of these things, was a preliminary warning.

I wish we had time to enjoy the election, which is what should happen, but the issues are too serious.

Yar

How much do you get paid to post this crap?
Maybe the fall in membership in your church is God’s wrath for child abuse, or like climate change, it is simply is caused by man. I believe in a loving God, not a god who hates people. If you believe in a vengeful god, you should take it as a warning your faith is on the wrong track.�
Slavery includes not giving a path to citizenship to all persons living in this country. Ed, what is your employer’s position on immigration reform? Do they support a path to citizenship for all?
1Brett1

And toward the norm for what is considered part of the human experience spectrum, religion has established and perpetuated a culture of intolerance and condemnation. Organized religion is on the wane and is unjust on many levels; perhaps some changes must be made in the various religious communities, or they too will not last…
jefe68

Oh woe is me… quick make for the hills!
J__o__h__n

What utter nonsense! Maybe the weather forecast should include the number of abortions, condoms sold, gay marriages performed, and other important atmospheric measures so we know when to take cover.

How is gay marriage part of the “culture of death” whatever that is?

Speaking of unjust institutions that cannot last, Church membership is down and the number of atheists is increasing.
- 1Brett1
  
  Whooda thought condom sales were directly correlated to global warming?
ttajtt

we all sin.

macho men for feminist woman.�
macho women for feminist men.

it is their choice for sex
http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

What the fkc is this about again? Does thiis have anything to do with today’s topic?

If I say “You’re getting into heaven” for spewing your shite, will you stop? Please?

Otherwise, stop pretending every goddamn thing is about abortion. Just fcking stop it.
Don_B1

@Yar_From_Somerset_Ky:disqus @1Brett1:disqus @jefe68:disqus @J__o__h__n:disqus @ttajtt:disqus

This just about says it all in response to Ed75:

http://www.wbur.org/npr/164711265/for-religious-conservatives-election-was-a-disaster

The “religious conservatives” have made their own bed and now must “lie in it.” When they look back to what the Bible actually says instead of some delusional attitudes that do not reflect the realities of modern life in an economy where family finances are deeply involved in choices that women have to make in the best interest of their family’s future.

Ed75′s ideology will never exist again, if it ever did.

Last night’s interview with Rachel Maddow on The Colbert Report was delightful, and an indirect response and put down of Ed75, also. See:

http://www.colbertnation.com/full-episodes/thu-november-8-2012-rachel-maddow
1Brett1

“Culture of death”? …Have you joined a death-metal band as their lyricist? BRUTAL, DUDE!

Gregg Smith

Yesterday I posted about job losses on Wall Street, at Boeing, Hawker Beechcraft, Papa Johns, Lockheed Martin and a few others. Here’s more:

Energizer- The St. Louis-based company said Thursday that it expects to shed about 1,500 employees.
Westinghouse has reduced its workforce by another 50 employees.

Research in Motion Unlimited the maker of BlackBerry smartphones laid off about 200 people at its U.S. headquarters in Irving on Wednesday.

Lightyear Network Solutions - More than one dozen employees at a Pikeville company lost their jobs this week.

The Providence Journal Co. laid off 23 full-time workers Wednesday

CVPH Medical Center has handed pink slips to 17 employees.

980 job cuts at U.S. Cellular

About 150 workers at Sistersville’s Momentive Performance Materials plant will be temporarily laid off later this month

About 100 employees at Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne, most of whom work in the San Fernando Valley, were laid off Wednesday

Brake Parts - The leader of an automotive parts plant in Lincoln County has told state officials that there are plans to lay off 75 workers starting in late December

Vestas Wind Systems A/S (VWS) is seeking to sell a stake of as much as 20 percent and said it’s reducing headcount by 3,000

Husqvarna AB (HUSQB), the world’s biggest maker of powered garden tools, plans to cut about 600 jobs

Bristol-Myers Squibb is following up its lackluster third-quarter results with almost 480 layoffs.

The Center for Hospice and Palliative Care plans to temporarily lay off as many as 40 employees

Darden Restaurants he company, which was among those who had received an Obamacare waiver in the past, is looking to limit workers to 28 hours per week. A full time employee that is required to have health insurance (lest the employer pay a fine) works 30 hours per week, as defined by the Obamacare law.

West Ridge Mine – In its statement, UtahAmerican Energy blames the Obama administration for instituting policies that will close down “204 American coal-fired power plants by 2014″ and for drastically reducing the market for coal.

United Blood Services Gulf South region, the non-profit blood service provider for much of south Louisiana and Mississippi, will lay off approximately 10 percent of its workforce.

jefe68

This is pathetic. What a sophomoric attempt to pin the job losses across a wide spectrum on President Obama.
You right wing regressives lost, get over it.
- Gregg Smith
  
  Caterpillar announced yesterday it is closing the Owatonna plant and moving 100 jobs.
  
  Mount Pleasant’s Albrecht Sentry Foods is closing in early January, a company representative said Thursday, Nov. 8.
  
  The Target store at Manassas Mall will close for good on Feb. 2.
  - jefe68
    
    What’s your point? I can use your stats to point to a sluggish economy and that the Middle Class, who do the lions share of consuming, is what’s at play here.
    You’re attempt is as I said is sophomoric at best and lacking in any real substance other than it backs up your own narrative of your regressive political ideology.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      Sears Holdings Corp. has decided to close a Kmart in Homer Glen in late January, a spokesman for the retailer said. Employees at the store, 15830 Bell Road, were told of the decision Wednesday morning, Chris Brathwaite said.
      
      Weak demand for solar glass has caused AGC Glass North America to permanently close its Blue Ridge Plant in Kingsport.
      The Kingsport Times-News reported company officials told the 70 workers Wednesday morning the plant is being closed and sent most of them home.
      
      Dateline 3:16 PM, Nov 7, 2012
      The Target store at Platte and Academy in Colorado Springs will close in February 2013.
    - jefe68
      
      Sears and Kmart have been in trouble way before Obama became president.
      
      You seem to think that if Mitt Romney had won he would have waved his magic wand and all of these economic problems would have gone away?
    - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
      
      Romney practically promised that. His confidence fairy shtick would be laughable if not covered by the Beltway Inbreds.
      
      And you know what other store’s trouble I blame on Obama’s win? W.T. Grant’s.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      Community Newspaper Holdings Inc. is cutting 21 jobs, or about 5 percent of its workforce, at the Eagle- Tribune in North Andover and several sister papers north of Boston because of the sluggish economy.
      
      EMD Millipore, a division of German pharmaceutical giant Merck, has laid off several staffers in St. Charles.
      
      Groupon is firing some employees today .A source familiar with the situation puts the number at 80.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      BARTON, AL (WAFF) -The SCA plant in Barton will begin reducing staff immediately, and the cuts will continue through 2015.
      
      YAKIMA, Wash. — At least ten Yakima Regional Medical Center employees will soon be looking for a job.
      
      Syracuse (WSYR-TV) — Crouse Hospital announced Thursday another round of cuts as it considers significant challenges down the road due to healthcare reform.
    - http://www.facebook.com/people/Joshua-Hendrickson/1652586055 Joshua Hendrickson
      
      Maybe what Gregg is (unwittingly?) saying is that the CEOs in question are punishing their workers for reelecting Obama, just like one of them was caught saying he would, and are therefore as corrupt and callous and powermad as we’ve always known they were. Doesn’t exactly help his side win the ethics argument, huh?
    - nj_v2
      
      Greggg apparently thinks that cutting and pasting from his brain-dead conservobot Web sites proves something other than Greggg is a droning, partisan hack.
      
      Let’s see the statistical analysis that job layoffs for November 7 are different from the norm.
      
      http://www.dailyjobcuts.com/
    - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
      
      I knew Gregg’s spew was too convenient to be anything but propaganda.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      And which ones did I make up?
    - 1Brett1
      
      Sony has shut down its ENTIRE production of its Beta video cassette recorders! Damn that Obama! Halibutron, on the other hand, has increased its breeding of infantry horses and bayonet production…so it balances out…
    - Gregg Smith
      
      It’s been the “norm” for 4 years.
    - nj_v2
      
      Superhack Greggg’s entire point in raising this bogus layoff thing was to demonstrate that it was all a reaction to the election.
      
      Now, he’s saying (without empirical evidence), no, no, not just on Nov. 7, but for four years, layoffs have been higher than normal.
      
      Any normal person would be embarrassed.
  - StilllHere
    
    You won’t be able to get some to understand, but then they don’t live in reality anyway.
  - JGC
    
    Don’t you need to groom Rafalca or tune your guitar or something?
1Brett1

Do you think these would be happening if Romney had been elected? Have you researched each and every one of these claims to determine why the companies are doing what they are doing, or that these claims are even valid? (Remember there are three questions here to be answered.)
- Gregg Smith
  
  Every announcement was made yesterday, probably a coincidence.
  
  Osceola County’s struggling U.S. 192 corridor took another hit on Wednesday when Target announced it’s closing its Kissimmee store.
  
  The Andover Gift Shop — a long-running popular store for kids and adults with well-priced, eclectic inventory — will close at the end of the year.
  
  Grand Union Family Markets, located at 591 Middle Tpke. in Storrs, is set to close its doors.
  - JGC
    
    Don’t forget about Ameridose LLC. I heard they are closing down, and 650+ workers will be unemployed. Of course, it never helps to kill and maim your customers…
  - nj_v2
    
    Lamely invoking tepid sarcasm, Greggg whimpers, “Every announcement was made yesterday, probably a coincidence.”
    
    Yeah, it’s not like small businesses fail every day.
    - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
      
      Can I like this more than once?
      
      And will someone explain to Greggg what “demand” is?
    - Gregg Smith
      
      Monitor Company Group LP in a Chapter 11 petition filed yesterday in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Wilmington, Delaware, listed assets and debt of $100 million to $500 million each.
      
      After nearly four decades in business, the Elizabeth City Pizza Inn is closed.
      
      WALDOBORO, Maine (AP) — Waldoboro’s only pharmacy is closing and residents say it’s a major inconvenience.
      
      Career Education announced Thursday that it is cutting 900 jobs and closing 23 campuses
      
      Handy Hardware, a Texas-based hardware store cooperative, plans to close its 2-year-old Meridian, Miss., warehouse on Dec. 31, laying off 109 workers.
  - 1Brett1
    
    It would seem, at least, many of these businesses you mention have a strong business sense…With all that is invested in these companies, do you really think they are going to turn tail and run in a decision made in one day over an election without any desire to do any wait-and-see strategy? Did their business acumen teach them to be quite so reactive or put all of their eggs in one basket as you suggest? Did they build these businesses on such whimsical, simplistic, and arbitrary decision-making approaches? Lockhead, for example, had planned some of their cuts/layoffs some time ago based on the Pentagon not wanting to purchase some of their aircraft deemed obsolete or unnecessary. Also, I have a cousin who works for Lockhead in California, and they have not made any decisions based on the election itself, but more on the reduction in their contracts over the last several years.
    
    Your first sentence indicates potentially that you haven’t really researched or followed why, or how, these companies have specifically come to the decisions they have. Your last sentence, about Grand Union, is interesting. As much as I always liked Grand Union, their stores have been closing for some time; and, they’ve been reporting losses since the late ’70s, when they were a national chain.
    
    But, hey, anything to fit your narrative rather then weigh each situation and give a measured response, right?
    - Gregg Smith
      
      What is so hard to understand? Businesses have been struggling for years. They’re barely holding on. The one ray of hope was Obama’s defeat and the repeal of Obamacare. That hope disappeared by Wednesday. The dominoes are falling.
J__o__h__n

You forgot Staples.
- Gregg Smith
  
  Staples is fine but…
  
  South Kansas City staple Gomer’s Fried Chicken will close at the end of the year.
  
  Movie Scene’s Milford location will be closing at the end of the year.
  
  TE Connectivity will close its Greensboro plant by the end of next year, resulting in 620 layoffs.
JGC

You are a rare ray of sunshine in a cold, cold world.
nj_v2

Greggg is so excited, he cut and pasted companies that aren’t even based in the United States.

How the impeachment effort going? Have you bought a little table yet? I probably have something in the garage you can borrow to get started with.
- Gregg Smith
  
  ALL of them resulted in layoffs or job losses in America.
Don_B1

If these job losses are reflective of anything beyond just normal destructive-creative capitalism, it is the looming “Fiscal Cliff” which may or may not be a “cliff.”

The Cliff was NOT created by President Obama, but was the result of the Tea/Republican Caucus refusing to raise the debt limit without draconian spending cuts, which would have disastrous results for the future of the middle class, or actually, the whole 99%. What the “lobotomized” 1% don’t understand it that the final result would be their loss also.

Admittedly, the 1% think they can continue their income aggrandizement with profits from companies overseas. But even that will end as workers there begin to demand their fair share of economic growth.

But Americans do not need them nearly as much as they think they do and the sooner this is made obvious the better for everyone.
- 1Brett1
  
  I know Lockhead’s (with which my cousin works) decisions were largely based not only on reduced contracts over several years but this so-called “fiscal cliff.”
- Gregg Smith
  
  No, the fiscal cliff is a result of a feckless Congress with no leadership from Obama. He supports the fiscal cliff as he made clear with The Des Moines Register. Raising the debt limit with no plan for fiscal sanity is what got our credit downgraded. The House passed “Cut, Cap and Balance” which would have prevented the downgrade according to S&P.
  - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
    
    More shite from you about how Obama couldn’t “lead” the tantrum-throwing infants of the GOP in Congress.
  - Don_B1
    
    “Cut, Cap and Balance” is justified only in the sense that cutting off your feet because an infection might turn into gangreen is medically justified.
    
    Obama has been and will be willing to work on the deficit, but the first priority has to be stimulating the economy to reduce the current unemployment level, which by itself will reduce the deficit by about a third.
    
    Your deliberate “ignorance” is astounding, all in the service of an ideology that will destroy the country.
hennorama

Keep posting bad news Gregg, regardless of its relevenace. You’ll no doubt soon be asked to come on Fox News or Rush Limbaugh, to voice your opinion on how poorly Pres. Obama’s doing, and how Obamacare is “destroying America.”
Funny thing about good news – it rarely makes “the news.” We sometimes see announcements of mass job openings, such as when a new store opens, but hiring announcements are uncommon. However, there ARE numerous companies with multiple job openings. You can see it for yourself – type “multiple job openings” or “multiple job opportunities” into your favorite search engine to see the results.

Bad news sells more papers, and drives more eyeballs to telecasts and websites, and more ears to the airwaves. “If it bleeds, it leads” is the old newspaper motto. For TV it now seems like “If there’s fire, move it higher.” Fox News is reliably fiery and smoky, running the same video over and over and over even though it no longer has any news value.
And now we have something similar in here – “If employees may need to beg, it will be pointed out by Gregg.”

It appears Gregg’s hypothesis is that all job losses or reductions in workers’ hours are brand new phenomena, and are all as a result of either Pres. Obama’s reelection, or Obamacare or whoknowswhat. What’s next – locusts?
Perhaps some evidence of this connection would be appropriate, rather than simple regurgitation of CDN and/or the other conservative and/or Tea Party echo chamber sources you read. Show us how these things are directly connected to the facts of the President’s reelection or Obamacare, or whatever else is in your hypothesis, if you can.
It’s no longer amusing to refute this stuff, because it’s too easy. For example, citing RIM/Blackberry as an example is hilariously silly on its face. Their market share has been falling precipitously for quite some time, so layoffs are EXPECTED and not surprising. The surprise is that they haven’t laid off the entire company. Just look at the charts in these articles:
http://en.paperblog.com/statistic-market-share-and-blackberry-delivery-globally-254308/
http://www.techieapps.com/windows-may-engulf-blackberrys-us-market-share-by-november-2012/
- Gregg Smith
  
  I exchanged an email or two with Rush 15 years ago but I didn’t get an invite. Fox won’t return my calls. However, NPR’s WFAE in Charlotte did indeed have me on for an hour once.

Gregg Smith

Allen West now leads by 300 votes in the race that has yet to be called.

jefe68

He still loses. You support this rube?
- Gregg Smith
  
  Love him.
  - StilllHere
    
    Is criticism of West racist like it is for other black politicians?
    - Gregg Smith
      
      What else could it be?
    - jefe68
      
      You guys are the Beavis and Butt-Head of inanity.
      I’ll rephrase it, they are the political equivalent of Beavis and Butthead.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      How does it feel?
    - jefe68
      
      You are the one who supports the right wing extremist like Allen West not me. The nation is going to reject this kind of extremism for years to come over the next few decades. You and your ilk were handed a defeat. How does that feel Beavis?
    - 1Brett1
      
      Why, Gregg Smith being vindictive? That is so unlike you…Come on, you’re better than that…Now do your daily affirmation exercises in the mirror…
    - http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=754173237 John Shaughnessy
      
      Aren’t Beavis and Butthead the Beavis and Butthead of inanity?
    - jefe68
      
      That’s my point, these two are inane just like Beavis and Butthead. I should add the that they are the political version of Beavis and Butthead. You get it?
    - 1Brett1
      
      Ah, so criticism of West is “racist” but criticism of Obama is not…okay, then
    - Gregg Smith
      
      Illustrating absurdity with absurdity. It went right over your head.
    - 1Brett1
      
      Ah, I’ve heard that excuse when called out…I guess you were exposing a straw man by building a straw man, too…Man, I gotta say, you’re one slick, quick dude…I can feel everyone everywhere bowing to their computers now…
    - Gregg Smith
      
      You are amazing.
    - 1Brett1
      
      Your reply was to StillHere…are you saying she/he is absurd?
    - Gregg Smith
      
      Stillhere gets it. or maybe I am still here… or Derick mickels.
    - 1Brett1
      
      StillHere might very well have something; it remains to be seen what that is, exactly. One can hope it passes…
    - sickofthechit
      
      No, he’s only black on the outside.
    - StilllHere
      
      Wow, you did not just write that!
    - Ray in VT
      
      I’m pretty sure that that is technically true, unless he’s a life long smoker or something. We’re all pink in the middle.
    - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
      
      He’s another “winner” of the world’s worst reality TV show, “America’s GOP has black people”.
      
      Brought to prominence because the conservatives looked at a twice-elected successful black president and all they could come up with is “folks like black pols we gotta get one”.
      
      And Allan West is what they came up with.
    - StilllHere
      
      OMG, substitute Obama and Democrat in your little diatribe and you’d have the race mongers all over you.
    - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
      
      Gawd, you’re pathetic. Can I sell tickets to you simply for the spit-takes?
  - 1Brett1
    
    Why don’t you put up another one of your videos from a black comedian doing a parody of a black stereotype that makes fun of people like you, but take that video out of context taking all of the satire out of it, “to be funny,” like you have a want to do? That would make your point.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      Happy to.
      
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyCpid1U3tw
    - 1Brett1
      
      You don’t realize that GloZell’s satire is about making fun of people like you who make fun of people she is parodying…
      
      But what is your purpose in putting such subtle satire on here, out of context? That is the question you have never answered. Because you think it’s funny doesn’t address the problem of context. Why don’t you care about providing context? And why did you put one of her videos up the other day but distort the context to mean it had something to do with your comment about your saying Colin Powell supports Obama simply because they are both black?
    - Gregg Smith
      
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT3KeZA-JIU
    - 1Brett1
      
      I guess you don’t know what satire means, do you?…Never mind, you don’t get that she’s making fun of people like you by pretending to be the stereotype you attempt to paint black people as. You are just posting this stuff out of context because you are a racist, ignorant of comedic satire and other comedic devices. Prove that you are not making racist comments on here and that you don’t think racist thoughts…No anecdotes, now.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      You thought she was for real and now you say this?
    - 1Brett1
      
      I’ve always maintained my position through the word “parody.” What you are not recognizing/acknowledging is how you distort that parody (look at my very first entry into this thread between the two of us); it’s not about GloZell….so you are engaging in what you always engage in: a reworking of the facts to distort/inflate the efficacy of your opinions. You are also trying to palm this off on GloZell, which is…dare I say it…….disingenuous….racist…… Anyway, it’s been fun…I guess. Have a good weekend….and I mean that! Play a cool solo on those eighty-eights!
    - Gregg Smith
      
      Larry King asked Colin Powell (in 2009) if he resented being accused of endorsing Obama because he’s black. Mr. Powell made no indication that he did because it was clearly part of his calculus. Why should ones race have an iota of influence in any decision?
      
      “I didn’t endorse him simply because he’s black, I felt this was something you know, something to take in consideration… I cannot say I was totally colorblind… I think he won not just not just because he’s black, although that influenced most African-Americans and a lot of people”
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWRg-aeZ7Q4
    - 1Brett1
      
      No one is totally color blind only those who are racist and say they are. You say you are color blind…BTW, you’ve spelled Colin Powell’s first name “Colon” in your last four comments you’ve mentioned him. Gregg, you can do better…we’re trying to help you overcome your bigotry on this forum, at least put forth some effort we can’t help you unless you help yourself…unless you just want to continue lazily sitting back and letting Rush think for you?
    - Gregg Smith
      
      Thanks for the spelling lesson. It was inadvertent. I reposted this up top for you and I will correct it.
    - 1Brett1
      
      Once might be inadvertent. I ignored it the last three times…but a fourth time?
    - Gregg Smith
      
      up a notch
    - Gregg Smith
      
      O well, it disappeared up top. At least I know you saw it. Maybe it will come back.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      I thought that was how it was spelled. Sue me. WTF are you conjuring up now?
    - 1Brett1
      
      Hey, if it was truly a mistake…forget about it. I did pose my concerns as questions…it’s not much, but it’s something!
Michiganjf

Good God!

You’re STILL living in Faux News Land DESPITE them having you spit out the WRONG NUMBERS for 5 months now!!!

Give it up!!
anamaria23

If you think that’s a good thing, the Repubs are surely doomed.

Fredlinskip

After all the media hype had raised the tension about how close the election was likely to be, it is an enormous relief that the sane party did win dramatically.

What I find still discouraging is the prospect that the last second “compromise” Dems may end up with Cantor & friends in the House, will look like something which only Norquist could approve.
If so our economy may quickly begin to mirror some of those in Europe who have chosen too much austerity too quickly.

I also find it a bit troubling that both parties have agreed that lowering corporate tax rate to 25% is a good thing- which is what was decided just before the Great Depression hit.

Fredlinskip

Then again, since the best possible outcome occurred-
I suppose a bit of optimism might be due.

Woo-hoo!!
Don_B1

While Erskine Bowles may have agreed on something close to 25%, that is NOT a uniform decision across all the Democrats in Washington, thankfully.

Most Democrats believe that the Clinton tax rates, which will be in effect for those earning over $250,000 with the repeal of the Bush tax cuts for that income group, should be in place.

Where some, and maybe even more than half, of the Democrats believe in lowering tax rates is for corporations, with the removal of loopholes. The problem, which I hope they also are cognizant about, is the way those loopholes seem to return without raising the rates again.

They must insist on a PayGo process that, if it is abandoned, the tax rates would immediately go back up across the board. The problem is how to do that.

J__o__h__n

Latinos have self-deported from the Republican party.

StilllHere

On Tuesday, America embraced the divided government they had on Monday and the compromise that will bring us the Fiscal Cliff. We should not disappoint her.

sickofthechit

Uh, you need to recheck the results, the American public said they want Obama’s programs and ideas. That’s what it means when the electoral college is 329 to 203.
- http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
  
  Sicko, check your math.
  
  It’s a well-know mediafact that a mandate is 280EVs for the GOP and 380EVs for the Dems.
http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

If compromise is such a goddamn good idea, let’s let the GOP do it first.

NewtonWhale

Dumbocalypse Now:

Conservatives declare War on the majority of Americans who reelected President Obama.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=p7D0d7ztLY0

NewtonWhale

Dumbocalypse Now:

Conservatives declare War on the majority of Americans who reelected President Obama.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=p7D0d7ztLY0

William

When will the “revenge” start? Who is first on the list?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZHMsivjr04
- NewtonWhale
  
  I suggest Karl Rove.
  
  He should be made to pay back all that money he wasted.
  
  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-08/rove-biggest-super-pac-loser-trump-says-waste-of-money.html
  - sickofthechit
    
    That money was not wasted, it is no longer in the hands of the idiots who think they should be able to buy elections. Well done Karl Ever notice how Karl Rove’s first name is the same as Karl Marx and his last name has four letters in it the same number as in Marx’s last name? Somebody needs to check his papers….
    - 1Brett1
      
      It seems Karl Rove has quite systematically attempted to undermine our democracy…has anyone looked at HIS birth certificate?
- StilllHere
  
  Ask Valerie, she runs the show and probably controls the drones.
- jimino
  
  The “revenge” is over. It was voting. Do you not understand plain English and get the reference? Obama figured people would be familiar with the phrase “living well is the best revenge”. Obviously some aren’t. You can go here to join the informed:
  
  http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/11/todays-ignoramus-nation-moment-best-revenge/264502/
  - William
    
    Yeah right, he was taken out of context. Sure, all political leaders tell people voting is the best sort of revenge. I remember FDR, JFK, Clinton all saying that….
    - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
      
      Hey, the wormhole is open to Williamworld!
    - Ray in VT
      
      Are the Founders in that wormhole?
DrewInGeorgia

Holy Hand Grenades Bat Man! You mean Two Face isn’t dead?
Mike_Card

I couldn’t have provided a better narrative for why they lost, again.

Ed75

Well, the election is over and what’s done is done. I’ve had my say. The results will not be God’s vengeance, nor a warning, but a plea out of love to turn from evil, to repent.

jefe68

Tell that to the tea party extremist.
DrewInGeorgia

Yes, by all means available turn from evil.
Stop worshiping The Almighty Dollar, give up your earthly possessions, help those in need, stop passing judgement, seek only enlightenment, and turn away from the path of regression.

Put your Mary where your Mouth is Ed.
StilllHere

Tell that to liberal extremists now in control of the Democrat party.
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Joshua-Hendrickson/1652586055 Joshua Hendrickson
  
  “liberal extremists now in control of the Democrat(ic) party.”
  LOL
  On what planet are you still there, Stillhere? On a planet where a Heritage Foundation idea of health reform, originally enacted by a Republican governor, is “liberal extremism?” And that’s just one example. Grow up.
Don_B1

It is YOUR definition of “evil” that YOU have to repent from.
1Brett1

WHA?!?! You’ve changed your position? When you talked to God earlier this morning, he said one thing, then when you talked to him two hours ago, he said another? How do you know you weren’t talking to Satan one time and God the next? Or maybe Satan both times and he is intentionally confusing you? …That Satan can be very tricky, Ed, be careful when you dance with the devil…

NewtonWhale

A CNN panel of journalists and other experts on Wednesday called on President Barack Obama to appoint former Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney as the “secretary of business.”
During an interview that aired on MSNBC last week, Obama had floated the idea of “one secretary of business, instead of nine different departments that are dealing with things like giving loans to SBA or helping companies with exports.”

But Romney immediately slammed the idea as just “another bureaucrat.”

“I don’t think adding a new chair in his cabinet will help add millions of jobs on Main Street,” the Republican candidate told a crowd of supporters on Virginia. “His solution to everything is to add another bureaucrat.”

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/david/cnn-panel-obama-appoint-romney-secretary-bus

MrNutso

At least Mona Charen isn’t on again.

Don_B1

All she “contributed” was to trot out repetitions of the debunked “ideas” which amount to Republican talking points only and have NO relation with reality.

John_in_Amherst

A fascinating comparison between the red state/blue state map from this election and the pre- Civil War map of slave and free states can be found by looking at: http://www.learner.org/biographyofamerica/prog10/maps/
There is an eery parity between the two. The
difference in psychology between liberals & conservatives may be on
display. Conservatives react differently to the world, (with its
changes & stress), seeing it as more fear-inducing, and prefer a
strong paternalistic hierarchy in which people are
told what to do, and do it. Liberals tend to view the world &
threats differently, and look for more cooperative, creative nurturing
approaches. People also tend to clump together, with people of like
minds forming something akin to tribes. The conservative strong father
approach that demands hierarchical and obedient society makes people
more comfortable with institutions like slavery, judgmental
fire-and-brimstone evangelical Christianity, and the GOP. In places
where the slavery map no longer mirrors the voting map, like VA (where
the northern urban centers have drawn in cosmopolitan types who work in
DC and have now become more heavily populated than the rest of the state) or
Florida, (where an influx of liberal “snow birds” and liberal retirees has
moderated “cracker values”), the change in society (& voting) is the
product of migration & redistribution, not an evolution of cultural/psychological
identities. We need to find a bridge not between two parties, but between two fundamentally different ways of seeing and reacting to the world.

J__o__h__n

I hope the Republicans take the right lesson from this and insist upon more conservative candidates. Mitt wasn’t severely conservative enough. The next nominee must join senators Todd Aiken, Richard Mourdock, Sharron Angle, and Christine O’Donnell in restoring our Christian values.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PQT2B4WBUSBIEELZXHDR6WLXFY Brian

One can only hope.

Eastwood/Norris 2016!
- jefe68
  
  Eastwood/Chair 2016!
  - 1Brett1
    
    In this coupling, the chair, of course, would be in the presidential role.
JAIBEEZ

Me too; that way they’ll be guaranteed to never win another election
1Brett1

J_o_h_n, your comments are often a thing of beauty. Exemplified in this latest offering.

Ray in VT

I saw this and thought that it was pretty funny:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/08/jeff-brucculeri-traffic-romney-supporters-canada_n_2094572.html?utm_hp_ref=media

In case you don’t want to check the link, it’s directions to Canada from Oklahoma for Romney supporters who said that they’d flee there if Obama won.

DrewInGeorgia

At least they’ll be in good company, all the Democrats that left in 2000 and 2004, and the Republicans who left in 2008 are already there. lol

Maybe they can embrace the spirit of their New Nation and learn how to work together then report back to our leaders on how it’s done.

Dan_in_WashingtonDC

It seems Republicans are the party of voodoo while the Democrats are the party of data. Leading up to the election, Republicans rejected the polls and cited a general feeling of enthusiasm as evidence Romney would win in a landslide. They’v embraced economic policies-tax cuts and austerity- that Paul Krugman says rely on the “confidence fairy” to work. Counter this with the Obama Campaign’s unprecedented use of data to turn their voters out to the polls and a generally more evidence based approach to policy. Can the Republican Party survive while rejecting facts that are staring them in the face?

http://profile.yahoo.com/QMDZ3LH5U2B4GAT7J2HS4TCP6E Jim

they have been rejecting facts since Reagan was inaugurated. they believe in white power.
- JAIBEEZ
  
  and white powder

ttajtt

forgot hes’ half white. republicans must make two parties… to fix and pick from in two years. shake up wrenches, trip ups bugs and whats next a stimulus check be for collage debts. workforce question divides up like a office – dock, of fields. sub-doing outdoors is recycling moving indoors. control, pictures, fingers, voice, eye, health to RFID a leveled life. generation switch over is practicing in classrooms. but talk is good.

Wahoo_wa

Tom have you guys thought of reporting this analysis of the election: This was the first Presidential election since FDR was voted back into office in 1944 that the incumbent President received fewer votes than in the previous election. Obama received nearly 10 million FEWER votes in this election when compared to 2008.

MrNutso

Well stated Major.

MrNutso

Well Karen, as the data nerds were showing, the election went exactly the way the predicted. To say there were tossups is not true.

And we’re not as divided as you think.

http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

“It looked like those swing states could have gone either way”, per Tumulty?

So Beltway Inbred. So predictable. What did Nate Silver say?

manganbr

Why is it easier for Republicans to garner enough public support to maintain control of the House than to win the White House?

JustEdith

It has to do with the way the districts are drawn. Perhaps they will comment on that on the show.
MrNutso

Gerrymandering. In PA, D’s far out number R’s in registration and in voting numbers, but only 4 of 20 seats are D.
J__o__h__n

Gerrymandering (both parties do it).
- http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
  
  But when the GOP does it, the maps get invalidated by courts more. The GOP-led lege in Texas also seems to redistrict more than once a decade; good thing that’s not in the Constitution.
DrewInGeorgia

Redistricting is more easily manipulated than The Electorate?
StilllHere

Representative democracy.

Fiscally_Responsible

The Democrats will play to the new demographics by favoring blanket citizenship and expensive benefits such as free health care and college tuition for illegal immigrants, granting statehood to Washington DC and Puerto Rico in order to gain more votes. Meanwhile, the cost of such actions will simply be added to the deficit.

Jasoturner

I want a pony, too…
- Gregg Smith
  
  I’ll sell you one, what color?
  - Jasoturner
    
    *Sell* me? What are you talking about?
    
    But still, call me (holding thumb and pinkie up to ear) on my Obamaphone.
StilllHere

Very wise.

TinaWrites

If a significant number of members of Congress took a pledge to Grover Norquist to not raise taxes some time after they took oaths to serve the people of their constituencies and the people of the United States, how is that pledge to Norquist not treason?

On top of that, WHO elected Norquist to anything anyway??!!!

Stephen Marshall

Top lessons:�
Elitism fails
Superpacs backfire
The radical right pushed into a corner. Watch out.

Gary Trees

At this point the “radical right” is a paper tiger. The election illustrated this. I voted for Obama, but I recognize that the groundswell of enthusiasm was on the GOP side, even in loss. If enthusiasm + radical right = presidential loss, I don’t think that there is too much to fear from the conservative corner.

Gregg Smith

This is so sad. The announcements came yesterday.

The Roses store on Reynolda Road in Winston-Salem will shut its doors, the Winston-Salem Journal reports.

Meanders Kitchen, the funky and fun restaurant that developed an almost cult like following for its home style cooking is closing its West Seattle location at 6032 California Ave.

Townsend Booksellers in Oakland is closing after 21 years

The Kmart store in Parkway Plaza off University Drive in Durham will close in late January and begin liquidation sales this weekend. The closing will result in 79 layoffs.

Ray in VT

My brother fired one of his milkers too.
- Gregg Smith
  
  Sorry to hear that.
  - Ray in VT
    
    The dude was finding drinking to be more worth his while than milking. He’s an alright guy, but he can’t stay off the sauce.
    - DrewInGeorgia
      
      ba-dump-bump!
      
      Nice.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      Milk will do that to you.
    - Ray in VT
      
      He was drinking all of my brother’s profits.
    - 1Brett1
      
      Wha?!? Obama was drinking your brother’s profits, too? …Gregg, videos?
    - Gregg Smith
      
      http://www.google.com/search?q=obama+drinking&hl=en&client=safari&tbo=d&rls=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=ckWdUIHCC4ai8gSm4oFY&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAA&biw=1280&bih=738
    - Ray in VT
      
      I tried Obama drinking milk but didn’t see any of him.
- 1Brett1
  
  Damn that Obama!
Mike_Card

Inept management will eventually get you every time.
jefe68

You forgot to mention that Kmart is in trouble due to Walmart. Townsend is closing because of Amazon.

I don’t know these other stores, but I bet Roses is closing due to a Walmart in the area. The restaurant, well that could be for a host of issues none of which you mention.

You keep posting these in a lame attempt, and it’s really lame, to paint President Obama as the reason for all of this. The level of your inanity is duly noted.
- Gregg Smith
  
  Central Georgia’s economy has proved unlucky for Shamrock owner Dargan McAfee. He closed the once-popular bar Wednesday after 17 years — 12 of them on Payne City’s Rose Avenue.
  
  Mills Manufacturing A western North Carolina company that makes parachutes and other supplies for the military is laying off 68 workers by the end of the year.
  
  Hazard, KY -TECO laying off workers in 90 coal fields.
  - 1Brett1
    
    Wha?!?! No videos of drunken Irishmen cryin’ in their beers?
    
    The Shamrock was doing so well, too, a booming business…then came the election results on the bar’s tv…Mr. McAfee said, “hold up! I’m shuttin’ down! Everybody get out!” …Damn that Obama!
- anamaria23
  
  Now that wal mart has moved into the area putting the small businesses out, we drive 10 miles two towns over for a spool of thread or facecloth. Any savings from Wal Mart are eaten up in gas.
1Brett1

Darn! And Kmart was doing so well, too…NOT.

http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

Tom, why not keep playing that O’Reilly piece? Don’t sand the bigotry off the Fox Newsers. That’s someone else’s job.

Bill-O went on to whine about the majority in this country being “takers” voting for Obama because they “want things from the government”.

No word on whether his aged relatives have “traditioned up” by going Galt and sacrificing the SocSec and Medicare they paid for.

Potter

It’s not about the white minority. It’s about skin color NOT being what we are about for God’s sake. Plenty of white folks voted for Obama.

DrewInGeorgia

And some were even Southern White Males over forty.

;’)

Markus6

I think the audio was right in that too many republicans have turned nutty. They appear anti-environment, pro-gazillionaires, anti-science. But even if they found the perfect republican candidate (perfect in my mind is fiscally conservative, pro-environment, socially inclusive, with executive experience, practical), hard to see that person winning. Just too many people have become reliant on the government. There are too many people voting themselves the money.

DrewInGeorgia

Tom you asked “What did we hear from the American Electorate this week?”

Come Together, Right Now!

Gary Trees

Mitt Romney: Got to be good lookin’, cause he’s so hard to see.
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Joshua-Hendrickson/1652586055 Joshua Hendrickson
  
  Heh heh heh. Clever.
Gregg Smith

“After we win this election, it’s our turn. Payback time. Everyone not with us is against us and they better be ready because we don’t forget. The ones who helped us will be rewarded, the ones who opposed us will get what they deserve. There is going to be heck to pay. Congress won’t be a problem for us this time. No election to worry about after this is over and we have two judges ready to go.”�
-Valerie Jarrett
- Ray in VT
  
  Has there been any written or recorded evidence for that quote? The last time that I checked it was one person saying that someone else told him/her that she said it.
  - Mike_Card
    
    Probably “Dave” in Vegas.
  - nj_v2
    
    Greggg don’t need no stinkin’ evidence!
    
    If it shows up on some righwingadoodle hack Web site, it’s good enough for Greggg.
    - nj_v2
      
      Here’s the best back-tracing i can find on this.
      
      http://radicalthugs.wordpress.com/2012/11/06/unraveling-the-story-behind-valerie-jarretts-bogus-payback-quote/
      
      Upshot:
      
      “Let’s get this straight: an anonymous source supposedly within the Obama campaign supposedly overheard a representative from Jarrett’s office make this statement and attribute it to Jarrett herself; it was then passed along to some pseudonymous source named “Wall Street Insider” who then forwarded it to The Ulsterman Report … and it eventually ended up on Glenn Beck’s radio program where the quote was treated as entirely legitimate and a sign that America deserves to be destroyed.”
    - Ray in VT
      
      I liked this summary:
      
      “Let’s get this straight: an anonymous source supposedly within the
      Obama campaign supposedly overheard a representative from Jarrett’s
      office make this statement and attribute it to Jarrett herself; it was
      then passed along to some pseudonymous source named “Wall Street
      Insider” who then forwarded it to The Ulsterman Report … and it
      eventually ended up on Glenn Beck’s radio program where the quote was
      treated as entirely legitimate and a sign that America deserves to be
      destroyed.”
- StilllHere
  
  Has Valerie denied saying this? It certainly sounds like something she would say.
  - Gregg Smith
    
    No, she hasn’t.

Scott B

Mitch McConnell isn’t going to acknowledge anything, and has already said so. In true Republican fashion he’s denying fact, history, and experience (and science since he’s ignoring math and polls) and still whipping the horse of not raising taxes on anyone.

Many Republicans are saying they didn’t win because they weren’t conservative enough, doubling down on ignoring facts that people went for the guy that championed the Dream Act, women’s rights to an abortion, and Obamacare.

TomK_in_Boston

Well, we escaped the hostile takeover of the USA by Bane Capital, with the associated layoffs, offshoring, cuts in wages and benefits, looting of the pension fund, redistribution of all the wealth to Bane and their investors, and ultimate bankruptcy. I wonder if the new CEO of the USA would have offshored the WH switchboard to a call center in india?

However, we’re still at risk. The current danger is that Rockefeller republican Obama and the conservadems will make a deal with the GoP, in the name of bipartisan compromise, that attacks SS and medicare, and prolongs the bush recession with spending cuts. Like Nixon (a socialist by TeaOP standards) could go to China, Obama can sell us out. If Bane proposed to cut SS and Medicare, the dems would be on red alert. Obama can do it before we know what hit us.

No “grand bargains” that sell out the middle class! Compromise with terrorists is not a virtue! If the TeaOP wants compromise, they can agree to raise taxes on the rich.

Shag_Wevera

Unfortunately, rich folks are laying off people out of spite. They will eventually give us no choice other than to flip over their Mercedes and start it on fire.
- Steve__T
  
  lets hope it dose not come to that.

Yar

Major Garret mentioned my state’s senator’s commitment to make Obama a one term president. Did that statement cost the republicans seats this election? �
What do you think Elizabeth Warren will do with the bully pulpit of floor speeches from the senate? Makes me want to get cspan.
She may be on a path to the first female president.

WorriedfortheCountry

OMG

She couldn’t even handle a press conference yesterday. Deval Patrick had to bail her out.

Then again, she could be our first Native American President.
- StilllHere
  
  Beautiful.
- http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
  
  Every time a loser like you whines, an angel gets its wings.
  
  I’d say “Get over it”, but part of me wants you to keep pretending this was always Scott Brown’s eleciton to lose, that his victory over Coakley was a fluke of timing and low turnout and a very poor opposition.
  
  So whatever you do, don’t learn that lesson.
  - WorriedfortheCountry
    
    Who is whining now? LOL
    - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
      
      Hilariouis. I can smell your desperation and denial from here. Across the internet.
Shag_Wevera

She’d have my vote. She seems principled. That is rare today.
- WorriedfortheCountry
  
  Principled?
  
  Research her record.
  
  She sold her BMW a week before filing papers and bought a Ford.
  
  She only did legal work for big companies (against the little guy) and was rewarded handsomely.
  
  She did ZERO pro-bono work — unlike her other Harvard colleagues.
  
  She is a fraud.

Scott B

McConnell and Boehner would do well to look at the exit polls that show 60% – 70% of all voters, regardless of party, say that taxes should be raised. About 45% -50% on the wealthiest, and 15% – 20% saying on everyone. But the Republicans in Congress seem to think that the pledge they signed is on display above the Constitution and have Grover Norquist painted into the “Signing of the Constitution.

StilllHere

America hopes that our divided government will get spending under control by finally going after entitlement programs. We can’t afford this social welfare state.

http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

Stop saying “America” when you mean “me and my wing”.

I’d say “party”, but as demonstrated previously, there are NoRepublicansHere. They’re all TruePrincipledConservatives.
Shag_Wevera

You must be high. Are you from Colorado?
Shag_Wevera

If America “Hopes” this, why didn’t they elect Mitt Romney?
- StilllHere
  
  Because they are satisfied with the status quo, no doubt. I can’t explain it, but there you have it.
OnPointComments

The government spent approximately $1.03 trillion on 83 means-tested federal welfare programs in fiscal year 2011 alone — a price tag that makes welfare that year the government’s largest expenditure, according to new data released by the Republican side of the Senate Budget Committee.
�
http://www.scribd.com/doc/110366590/Spending-for-Federal-Benefits-and-Services-for-People-With-Low-Income-FY08-FY11
- StilllHere
  
  Thanks for the sourced material, impossible to refute.
- Ray in VT
  
  Was that $1.03 trillion number in the report? I saw a $745 million number at the bottom of the table, and it didn’t jump out at me from the textual paragraphs.
nj_v2

Wow, StilllllHere got something right. We can’t afford to keep giving huge, established corporations tax breaks, handouts, subsidies, etc. End corporate welfare!
TomK_in_Boston

I don’t hope that.

What we can’t afford is plutocrats paying 13% tax rates.
- 1Brett1
  
  Wait just a minute TomK, that’s not fair! Romney has three years to file those charity deductions he didn’t claim so he could bring his rate back up to 13%! His taxes for last year will go back down to the 9% rate he was going to get…He may be a plutocrat, but he’s no 13 percenter!
  - TomK_in_Boston
    
    Right, sorry, I apologize to the board for exaggerating Lord R’s contributions to the USA. I bet his accountants are correcting those deductions as we speak.

Matt Wade

The GOP either has to learn its lesson from the election or be doomed to a permanent minority status. Hannity and SourKrauthammer are already moderating towards immgrants. I’ll bet my 401k that they won’t learn anything and will nominate a “true conservative” in 2016 and we’ll be repeating this cycle all over again.

Matt Wade

Regarding taxes, the CRS’s study is pretty insightful:

“But regression analysis does not find the correlations to be statistically significant (see Table A-1 in the appendix) suggesting that the top tax rates do not necessarily have a demonstrably significant relationship with investment.”

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/news/business/0915taxesandeconomy.pdf

http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

Can we get someone on here who isn’t as scared of the fiscal cliff as everyone inside the Beltway? Can we get a geek, an economist?

BlueNH

Tom,

Two reasons why the Republicans lost: Religion and science. Republicans seemed to think Americans want a Christian-based government when in fact there are more atheists than ever. And re: science, the Republican Party continues to deny climate change, and Americans have witnessed the climate changing before their eyes.

Time for the Republican party to change or wither away.

WorriedfortheCountry

Did Obama listen when he was repudiated in 2010?

NO

Shag_Wevera

Do you mean President Barrack Hussein Obama? I was’nt sure.
- WorriedfortheCountry
  
  Huh?
  
  I was responding to the liberal caller who stated that the GOP doesn’t get the message from the voters. Well, it was clear that Obama didn’t get the message in 2010. It appears we are in a cycle of flipping power back and forth.
  
  Obama only won because he was successful in depressing turnout and dividing the electorate.
  
  It is too bad such divisive tactics were rewarded.
  - Shag_Wevera
    
    It is so disrespecful to refer to the sitting president by his last name alone. It makes you a cad, and someting less than a patriot.
  - anamaria23
    
    Depressing turnout? You mean the convoluted nonsense articulated by Karl Rove? Depressed the turnout by campaigning? �
    The Repub primaries did more harm to Gov Romney’s positions than any Democratic initiative. Look to Gingrich, Perry, dt al.
    - WorriedfortheCountry
      
      I’m looking that the numbers. Obama received 9 million less votes than 2008. Romney received fewer votes than McCain.
      
      Romney did not run a good primary campaign and it cost him capital AND at least $100M in cash. He also didn’t run a good general campaign. Ultimately he is responsible but his team of ‘experts’ really let him down. GOP problems did drag down Romney. You could argue that Akin cost the GOP two Senate seats and maybe the Presidency.
      
      He also had to fight against a hostile media. It started with George Stephanopolous asking about contraception in the first debate. They had a 24/7 gaffe police that amplified every one of the Romney gaffes. For instance, his foreign trip wasn’t covered fairly. None of the positive events were covered but they played up the minor London gaffe. Also, the faux fact checkers were brutal. However, Romney’s team didn’t fight back effectively. They played way too much defense when there was plenty of fodder to go on offense.
    - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
      
      Hostile media?
      
      Akin dragged down Romney, not Paul (Witness Protection Program), who held the same policies about womens’ healthcare, and was hardly seen in a swing state after Labor Day?
      
      George Snuffleupagus as a Democratic mole?
      
      Faux fact checkers?
      
      Wow. You haven’t learned anything. Please, don’t have an epiphany, ever.

Matt Wade

But here’s the fact: Romney lost because he was never ahead in the election. Unlike McCain in 2008, Romney was always losing the 2012 election.This election was no spectacular loss. It was the ordinary loss of a candidate who was always behind. Period.
The aggregate polling data pegged Tuesday night’s outcome almost to the decimal point, and it never, ever, ever showed Mitt Romney with a lead. Not once. Republicans can blame Romney’s defeat on Superstorm Sandy and Hurricane Christie all they want, but he was already well on his way to defeat.

Matt Wade

Krugman is on point:

“One thing that caught my eye, in particular, has been the wailing that Americans have turned socialist. (Conservatives haven’t failed America — America has failed conservatives!) Thus John Hinderaker of Bush is a genius fame declares,”‘To me, the most telling incident of the campaign season was a poll that found that among young Americans, socialism enjoys a higher favorability rating than free enterprise. How can this possibly be, given the catastrophic failure of socialism, and the corresponding success of free enterprise, throughout history? The answer is that conservatives have entirely lost control over the culture.’Oddly, he doesn’t even seem to consider the more obvious possibility: after decades in which right-wingers have attacked long-established institutions — Social Security, progressive taxation, unemployment insurance — as “socialism”, a lot of young people now believe them, and think that this “socialism” thing really isn’t so bad.Socialism now means: The bare bones, the basic components for any society to function.

Steve__T

Don’t forget how many of them supported Own Wall Street. And those who saw their parents loose all their savings, retirement, college funds and houses and watched people like Romney get richer.

burroak

Just about to mention the GOP gerrymandering of house districts in the 2010 election when one of your guests spoke about this. If this did not accur, then, it might have been a democratic sweep in 2012.
Three subjects for continued research, study, and discussion: first, the gerrymandering, second, the voter supression; there were many news footage of minorities waiting for hours and hours, and false, misleading billboards in Pennsylvania for example; and thirdly, the denial, and refusal of newsstations like Fox to not execpt the realites and move forward. If you listened to the last part of that O’Reily clip, he says that blacks, hispanics, women, asians, like stuff. What kind of thinking and rhetoric is that to strengthen our nation.
John Boener, I am hopeful, will stand up to his tea party constituents.
American eyes on Mitch McConnell.

libraryshortcake

Tom introduced the show mentioning Romney’s “gracious” concession. A good Slate article points out that it really wasn’t all that gracious… http://www.salon.com/2012/11/07/romneys_concession_speech_was_not_gracious/

Matt Wade

I watched it was astounded by his his lack of class and grace. When someone says they will “pray for you” they really mean “eff you!”
Mike_Card

He wouldn’t even deign to say President Obama’s name.
1Brett1

Oh, and he sounded so sincere, toooo……………..

bridget_in_wisdom

Why did Obama win? Because the election of a President Romney would be like buying a “pig in a poke”…in other words we never knew where he stood, whereas Obama was ‘steady as she goes…”

Scott B

It all boiled down to what Norm Ornstein, of the conservative/libertarian think tank the American Enterprise Institute, said of the problem in his own party: They deny fact, history, science, and experience.

The Republican leaders just don’t get it. They’re stuck in the day of Reagan and the 1950′s. They “forget” that Reagan had to raise taxes several times when he and Stockman came to the conclusion that trickle-down economics don’t work, and that he called the fact that a bus driver pays a higher tax rate than a Wall Street bigshot “crazy”.

http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

I dunno, Ornstein hasn’t been on TV for six months, which makes me not trust his ideas. Did aliens kidnap him?
- Scott B
  
  He was on The Daily Show a few weeks back, and Fresh Air just the other day. The Republican leadership is probably wondering if there’s a pod with the real David Ornstein in it?

Matt Wade

Obama and the Senate Democrats need to call the GOP’s bluff on the fiscal cliff. Let the agreement expire and then put forth a new plan with middle class tax cuts and the GOP fight against that. The GOP will be pilloried as tools of the 1% (which they are) and Obama can leverage another domestic policy win.

MrNutso

It’s in the GOP’s interest to wait until Jan. 1st. The Bush cuts finally expire and all rates return to what they should be. Then they can say the are cutting taxes for middle and low income groups.

TinaWrites

I could not stand all the news focus on polling rather than on policy differences between the candidates and parties and their consequences over both the near and far futures.

http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

Yet it was an improvement over 2000, when the fight was “who do I, the reporter want to have a beer with” and they fell all over themselves in the media to tell us there wasn’t a dime’s worth of difference between Gore and Bush policywise.

In 2000, though, the media was practically chanting “Give it up, Al”. Not in mid-November, but starting about Columbus Day.
- TinaWrites
  
  TF, You’re so right about the beer business! Thanks for the reminder!
  
  As per Gore v. Bush, I didn’t have the internet at home yet; didn’t know my state had its own NPR, and the adjacent state, at that time, only had classical music thruout the day except for All Things Considered, then news about THEIR state; I was still working; and, at “home”, I was at the center of the ‘sandwich generation’ in my family who lived 13 states apart, so my sense of that election was not as well understood as yours. The hanging chards (sp?) sure got my attention, tho.
  
  I DO have to remember how hard it is for people in similar situations today to what I experienced then to try to stay informed! It’s easier to check up on terms and concepts that you don’t understand with an internet connection; yet, not everyone can afford that! I couldn’t, and it’s marginal affordable now. The next hour will be talking about on-line shopping with Amazon: even more small stores might go down…… Will this bring more people who can only afford to watch TV if they can afford cable? More and more magazines are going on-line only. This all affects our elections! That’s why I like the news to be really, really informative!
  
  Thanks for your great input!
  - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
    
    NPR from “the adjacent state, at that time, only had classical music thruout the day except for All Things Considered”.
    
    Is that WFCR? I know they luvs the symphonies and opera.

gregorclark

Count me among the millions of liberals who felt disillusioned by Obama’s first term, yet worked fervently for his re-election.

I was severely disappointed that Obamacare forces us all (through the mandate) to pad the wallets of big insurance.

I was dismayed when Obama failed to stand up to the Republicans on ending the Bush tax cuts in December 2010.

And yes, Obama let us down on countless other occasions by failing to call the Republicans on their unprecedented recalcitrance.

But Obama remains an inspiring leader who has done a lot of good for the country, and the Republican opposition is hopelessly benighted and downright scary.

I sincerely hope that Obama will grab the bully pulpit much more in his second term and fight for all of us who helped put him back in the White House.

Steve__T

Here here much agreed!
- TomK_in_Boston
  
  Ditto. I want a liberal president, not a Rockefeller republican. Tax the rich and spend to invest in the future.
  
  “Deficits don’t matter.”—Vice President Dick Cheney

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000611481153 Justin Gatebuke

There are two points that I have not heard about among reasons for defeat of Romney. He lost not because of the campaign, but as a punishment of the Republican Party.
1) Obstructionism at the capital. This obstructionism has been seen as opposing the improvement of economic conditions while many people were hurting. This energized people to go to vote against the candidate who was seen as associate to obstructionism. Many of those who went to polls wouldn’t go in the economic climate prevailing at the time of elections.
2) Republicans are seen as not being truthful. For example, they say in public that they are against abortion, but some of those elected official have history of pressuring their mistresses into getting abortion when they become pregnant. They say their pro-family, but their ignore women as family members. They claim to be Christians, but the Christ teaching about helping those in needs does not come out in their speeches. Etc.
These are some of the things they should work on also.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1741643803 Charlie McNamee

“I suggest that one read “The Miracle of Dialogue”
by Ruell Howe, in order to understand what President Obama is trying to do both
nationally and internationally. The world appreciates his effort, but I only
wonder at the ability of Obama’s critics to understand.
Many mistakenly consider dialogue to be a weak behavior, and instead view the
Cheney-Bush philosophy as the “shoot first cowboy” approach,
popularized by that roughneck R.Reagan. In this approach, threaten first, then shoot, and
then bury the mistakes; then take all the credit for solving the problem.

Dialogue considers the other as a possible friend, monologue
assigns him to Hell.”

The above is the content of a letter sent to On Point on October
14, 2009. Now, I send it again to ALL members of Congress as
required reading with a test to be given and the results published to the
public. The childish sniping and door slamming must stop unless we lose what America should
cherish most.

The $6,000,000,000 (six billion) dollars wasted on public
ads is a “cancer” growing on the United States. Fear which appeals
only to wealth and not to principles continues to drive the country into an
idiotic downspin. Give us more genuine truth-seeking dialogue which costs much
less and put the money into jobs and necessary programs.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000611481153 Justin Gatebuke

There are two points that I have not heard about among reasons for defeat of Romney. He lost not because of the campaign, but as a punishment of the Republican Party.
1) Obstructionism at the capital. This obstructionism has been seen as opposing the improvement of economic conditions while many people were hurting. This energized people to go to vote against the candidate who was seen as associate to obstructionism. Many of those who went to polls wouldn’t go in the economic climate prevailing at the time of elections.
2) Republicans are seen as not being truthful. For example, they say in public that they are against abortion, but some of those elected official have history of pressuring their mistresses into getting abortion when they become pregnant. They say their pro-family, but their ignore women as family members. They claim to be Christians, but the Christ teaching about helping those in needs does not come out in their speeches. Etc.
These are some of the things they should work on also.

Fred_in_Newton_MA

Totally agree with Jack – Pres Obama has done VERY poorly in communicating the benefits of both stimulus and Obamacare. We live in Mass, but our kids (in their 20s) have insurance because of his program – my employer is a Calif company which forced them off once they were out of college. But how much more important is the GUARANTEE of insurance to people regardless of previous health issues, not being shut down in the middle of cancer treatment, more money from premiums going to actual health care, etc, etc! And stimulus – how many jobs were created by government spending on infrastructure repair.
Take the campaign forward – we ARE in this together, and not spending more now on roads, bridges, seawalls, with interest rates low, will mean $mega billions in emergency spending in coming decades. WE BUILT IT, WE OWN IT, WE HAVE TO MAINTAIN IT – private buisiness will not and can not.

http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

Another Saint Ronald acolyte?

Someone should give the slightest bit of a history lesson to Sen-elect Cruz .

Shag_Wevera

I have an important question for the folks at On Point. If the situation in this country approaches a point where some people begin to advocate revolution and attacks upon property, will On Point delte these comments in a matter of fact manner?

Ray in VT

I think that there was a guy calling for revolution on Twitter on Tuesday night.
- StilllHere
  
  I wouldn’t have to leave my couch for a Twitter revolution, right?
  - Ray in VT
    
    Nope, it will be tweeted. You can participate while watching Real Housewives and eating popcorn.
    - StilllHere
      
      Hope it goes better than the MySpace revolution.
    - Steve__T
      
      I don’t think IF there is one that it will be as small as that, the poem by Gil Scott comes to mind.
WorriedfortheCountry

Let the censorship begin.

geraldfnord

It’s funny to hear Bill O’Reilly mourn the death of the ‘traditional’ American power structure when his own ancestors—in living memory or nearly—would have been excluded from it as being fundamentally un-American (for being ‘Papists’) and barely ‘white’ at best.

Perhaps I will live long enough to see married, gay, dope-smoking, Hispanic, Republicans on Faux News deriding whichever group _they_ decide aren’t American enough.

Scott B

Thanks to Brian Williams for calling “Bull$h!t!” on Trump! It;s about time someone in the media leadership stopped dealing with crackpots like they’re legitimate. Does anyone think that Cronkite would have been giving any credence to the likes of Palin, Trump, Cain, et al?

nostoppingprogress

Could this be the tipping point for a three- or even four-party system? The Republican party seems to be shrinking, yet there are a lot of Dems who are less than happy with Obama. Could we see four parties spanning the spectrum with the two largest on either side of the center but able to work together?

StilllHere

That would be great for gridlock.

libraryshortcake

The Latino vote made a huge difference in this election, and now the Republican party is trying to figure out how to send a different “message” to Latinos. I keep hearing this and wondering why they don’t realize that it’s not the “message” that has to change… it is actual policy that needs to change. As long as a candidate rejects the Dream Act, supports laws like Arizona’s SB 1070, and suggests self-deportation, why would Latinos in general vote for that candidate?

Ray in VT

CNN ran a graphic on exit poll numbers:

Gay, lesbian, bisexual: 76%-22% for Obama
Straight: 49%-49%

My thought was “22% voted for Romney?”
- http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
  
  I wonder if anyone’s polled “in the closet gay / lesbian / bisexual / transgender”. I really do, this is not snark.
  
  And I do want LGBT broken out geographically by state, too.
WorriedfortheCountry

Actually, there was segment last night from Latino activists from both sides and they claimed it was all about the messaging and tone. Most Latinos are not for amnesty. They just want to be treated like everyone else.

Also, self deportation only sounds harsh. It is much better than rounding people up and throwing them out. Enforce the laws on employers, enforce the borders and remove the magnets. Voila!!

The term ‘Self deportation’ is like marketing sushi as ‘cold, dead fish’.
- Steve__T
  
  Still twisting I see.
  - WorriedfortheCountry
    
    So you prefer rounding people up?

wsjevons

Republicans have won one popular vote in the last six elections.

libraryshortcake

Not the most recent election. Things have changed.

Jordan Davies

Why a constant emphasis on entitlements when discussing cutting the deficit? Entitlements are taxpayer funded. Change them perhaps, but certainly not Social Security. What about defense spending?

WorriedfortheCountry

Entitlements are the largest debt driver. The math is daunting.

Check out the unfunded entitlement liabilities. This is a measure of false promises by a politicians and generational theft.

Look at this website. It is a killer — > $1M/taxpayer unfunded.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
StilllHere

Everything is taxpayer funded. Entitlements are killing us. They were designed for a population that would die before they collected anything so that the surplus could support other social welfare programs. Now the numbers don’t work and the social welfare programs are debt funded.
libraryshortcake

I hate the negative connotation placed on the word entitlements as of late. Yes, I believe that humans are “entitled” to food, shelter, and healthcare! In most of the civilized world this is accepted as rather reasonable. One is especially entitled to Social Security after paying into it over the years. And I would rather see my tax dollars go toward the human rights people are indeed entitled to, than to wars, weapons, killing and torture.

Bruce94

On Nov. 4 we turned our clocks back when daylight savings time ended (Republicans’ favorite time of the year?). On Nov. 6 the transformative candidate won and denied the Party that wanted to re-litigate the 60′s a chance to turn the clock back once again.

This election was not only about demographics, but also economics & ideology…a huge victory for progressive values and economic policies that make sense moving forward in the 21st century.

IsaacWalton

Dear Shenandoah Valley caller…stop judging people. Yes, people take advantage of all kinds of systems. Take a good look at Wall Street millionaires that take advantage of the system!

http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

But millionaires are better than us, and moral hazard isn’t a problem to them. I mean, if they weren’t better than you and I, why would they have all that money?
- burroak
  
  better in what way? Do they have more stamina then you? More courageous than you? play the guitar better?
  - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
    
    [May I introduce you to my full-on deadpan? ]
  - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
    
    Courage and stamina? Not sure.
    
    Guitar playing skills? That is not my strongest suit, I’ll admit. My ears are incredible but my hands are not so good.
    
    PS See my below.
libraryshortcake

Thank you Isaac- good point about Wall St. “working the system!” Before judging and stereotyping, I wish people would learn the facts- that it’s actually a very small percentage of public assistance recipients that are “welfare dependent,” and an even lower percentage that are committing welfare fraud. It’s a typical racist phenomenon, to take one sensational “welfare queen” story and suggest it applies to the bulk of a population. I am SO grateful that when my (middle class manual laborer) family members needed temporary assistance they had safety nets to help until they got back on their feet. One also needs to question why African Americans and Hispanics have proportionally higher rates of public assistance usage, incarceration, single motherhood etc. Clearly it’s not because they are inherently more shady than whites of have low morals… it is due to the legacy of disenfranchisement and racism which is still keeping them down in this country.

sheryltr

Jack, There are people like the people Romney referred to at that fundraiser. It’s not 47%, but those people exist, and I just had one walk off the job yesterday because she couldn’t have the day off she wanted!

wsjevons

So, what benefits exactly will she be eligible to receive? Certainly not UI.
- http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
  
  So? Someone left a job. That makes them “one of the 47%”, a taker, a moocher, some jagoff not (in the words of Archie Bunker) not pulling their weight.
  
  We’ve determined what kind of person that woman is. Isn’t that the important thing, so we can keep looking down on the poor?
tess013

She won’t be able to get Food Stamps or Cash Assistance either for three months.
Yar

Were you trying to use work to keep her from voting? If you tried that with me, I would have quit as well.
- http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
  
  Maybe sheryltr was trying to make her show up at a Romney rally on their day off.
  
  We’ll never know both sides of the story, will we?
jefe68

What a load of bunk.
StilllHere

Thanks Sheryl, valuable input. We need the reminders.
- http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
  
  Reminders of what, dipshit?
burroak

do not agree with walking of the job.
- StilllHere
  
  One would only do that if one knew there was a hammock waiting for them.
  - burroak
    
    I worked since I was 15 and never walked off a job.
    - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
      
      Burroak, that’s not Stillhere’s point.
      
      His point is that someone did it somewhere, and he doesn’t know you, so he’s projecting all the moral failings that other person represents onto you because you’re not automatically throwing stones at this person (real or imagined).
      
      To some people, your saying “don’t agree with walking off a job” isn’t condemnation enough. Stillhere’s scolding you for not immediately scolding them for all those lazy moocher bennies he imagines they’re getting the next morning after what they did.
      
      And Stillhere’s belief in the moocher takers working the system is stronger than any reality could ever be.
      
      You’re helping kill freedom, dontcha see?
      
      (Somehow I think you’re aware of that already, but thought I’d just put it out there.)
    - burroak
      
      O.k., And, thank you, always appreciate feedback, and discussion.
    - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
      
      (No prob. The internet doesn’t do vocal tone and non-verbal communication the way I intend it sometimes. If someone would write an app for that.)
    - OnPointComments
      
      For more than a decade, I volunteered with a nonprofit. Each year at Christmas, the nonprofit would provide needy families with food and Christmas gifts. Although there were several nonprofit organizations that did the same thing, resources were limited, and it was difficult to help all families in the area that needed help. Someone came up with the idea to have a database linked among all of the nonprofits to coordinate the Christmas support. Although it wasn’t the purpose of the database, guess what they discovered? There was a significant percentage of people (not most, not half, but not inconsequential) who were going from nonprofit to nonprofit getting as much as they could get, essentially depriving other families, because these people were taking the Christmas support multiple times. My point is that it’s wrong to assume that everyone in the safety net is gaming the system, but it’s just as naïve to assume that there aren’t a lot of people who are.
    - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
      
      I’m not naive. I’m not projecting. I’m not passing moral judgement on people who had IRAs and good jobs 10 years ago and are waiting for demand to pick up so they can return to their typical employment.
      
      You? I can’t say. And I almost don’t care.
    - StilllHere
      
      Sorry, no offense intended.
  - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
    
    You really like assuming crap about other individuals, don’t you?
    
    Keep making an ass out of you and…you.
jimino

I know an entrepreneur who is a child rapist. So I can only logically conclude there are entrepreneurs who are child rapists. Now I’m not saying like half of them are, but there must be a lot. So be careful. Be VERY careful.
Steve__T

That’s not something I would do, but I think that if that day was important enough to leave a job, I can only think that there is more to it than not just getting what she wanted. Was there a family situation, medical? Did she understand when hired the expatiation of hours that must be worked? That also would imply that you hired the wrong person for the job.

I also don’t see the equality of “those people exist” as a comparison of the statement Romney made and your post.
- http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
  
  Now, we heard the manager’s side of the story. Quidcherbidchen about extraneous circumstances!

Steve__T

The six different republican front runners were the one who actually outed Romney during their debates. Every last one of them had nothing to say good, only that he was a horrible CEO who killed jobs and broke corporations. Until he won the republican nomination.

Ray in VT

Jon Stewart did a nice mash up of all of the terrible things that other GOP candidates said about Romney during the primaries, including an anti-Romney piece backed by Adelson money.
WorriedfortheCountry

How is that any different from what Biden and Hillary said about Obama before he won his 2008 primary?
- Steve__T
  
  Its 1012
- StilllHere
  
  It’s not, just that the media doesn’t want to bring attention to it.
- jimino
  
  Like what? Did they call him a Kenyan? Muslim? Anti-American? White race hater? Socialist? Communist?
  
  Really, what are you talking about?
Mike_Card

The real teabagger miracle is that Willard got as many votes as he did. This guy never had more than a 34% plurality in his own party’s primaries; it’s a frigging miracle that he got nearly 49% of the popular vote in the general election.

Unless, of course, there really WERE that many right-wingers behind the vitriolic hatred spewed upon President Obama.
jimino

The fact that Adleson financed Romney’s most vocal opponent in the primary (Gingrich), using much worse attacks than anything Obama leveled, THEN became his chief financial supporter in the general election, tells any intelligent person that this had absolutely nothing to do with any principle except getting power.

http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

I’m glad Tom brought up how folks complained about the “Coach-bag-wielding foodstamp recipient”.

I mean, the righties’ standard (“young bucks driving their Cadillacs to the welfare office”) wasn’t going to last forever, and the rest of us need to train our ears to the new bigotry.

Were it to happen to me, I hope I’m self-sufficient enough to sell (say) my grandmother’s pearls, or even the fillings in my teeth, before getting foodstamps, thereby demonstrating that I’m not one of “those” people.

(Edited at the end to say what I meant and what everyone has figured already.)

Gregg Smith

Exide Technologies announced Thursday that it will be idling its lead-recycling operations in Laureldale and laying off 150 workers, effective no later than March 31.

NEW HACKENSACK — A company based here, Southeastern Container, has notified the state that it plans to lay off 15 employees as the first of three phases toward what the state called a “plant closing.”

EAST CARBON, Carbon County — A Utah coal company owned by a vocal critic of President Barack Obama has laid off 102 miners.

Shag_Wevera

Their employees should destroy essential equipment on their last day on the job.
jefe68

The lead-recycling is due to a falling exports of these all recycled materials to China, which is slowing down.

East Carbon,West Ridge Mine is also dealing with a downturn in coal due to cheaper natural gas prices.
You left that fact out. I have no problem with environmental laws being enforced in this sector.
Romney wanted to gut the EPA, he lost this is the new reality for coal. They have to deal with a shifting reality in the energy busniess.

Also you left out all the legal problems West Ridge Mine has also had to deal with. They had a $1M settlement for fines from a mine disaster.

The Cherry picking you are engaging in is duly noted.
- Ray in VT
  
  I also noted the Energizer layoffs. One plant is relatively close to me, and the company says that this move is due to less demand for lithium batteries, as many people have moved to rechargeable devices.
  - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
    
    Now, don’t confuse Greggg with facts.
- http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
  
  Miners are getting to be expendable (as if Massey et al have never treated them another way.)
  
  The next big thing is mountaintop removal, which provides next to nothing in jobs compared to union mining.
  
  And the bonus is they get to rewrite that John Denver song. “Almost level, West Virginia…”
- Gregg Smith
  
  Cherry picking? I must have listed 30 or 40 all tolled. Obama promised to put the coal industry out of business.
- hennorama
  
  Buen trabajo, jefe!
jimino

Don’t you free marketers call this “creative destruction”, an inherent and to-be-worshiped feature of capitalism?
- hennorama
  
  Oh no, don’t you know? Every time a job is lost or workers’ hours are cut, it’s Obama’s fault. This is so obvious, and is a completely new phenomenon, as no jobs have ever been cut, nor have any workers’ hours been reduced ever never ever never before.
  
  It doesn’t matter what the ACTUAL reason may be. Correlation is the same as causation now, according to this line of “thought.”
  I mean, it’s so obvious. Haven’t you been paying attention?
  Sheesh.
StilllHere

It’s amazing that so many companies waited until after Tuesday to announce this bad news, probably will avoid a costly audit or trumped up regulatory review.

What do you make of the timing of the Pentagon’s release about the Iranian drone shooting?
- Gregg Smith
  
  The drone shooting is a huge deal. It was certainly covered up until after the election. Iran does not fear Obama.
Steve__T

My roommate just called, hes getting a new position with a $15 per hour raise. Seems every business isn’t going down.
- Gregg Smith
  
  I’m glad for him/her.

TinaWrites

AMY! YOUR CALL was fantastic, and you presented your ideas for what the President should do to better communicate with such clarity!

I absolutely agree, and, yet, I have only one fear. I wrote to the President at his Whitehouse.gov website at least once a month since he took office. I said much the same thing that you said, and yet, my small, yet firm, voice did not get thru to him in terms of his behavior. I frequently wondered whether my POV was completely discounted because I live in a very tiny state that almost always votes Democratic. Were my POVs of of no consequence?

In any case, we MUST demand that he communicate the reasons and consequences and contexts of decisions he makes! A guest on Tavis Smiley last night said that she thought that President Obama wanted us to TELL HIM WHAT WE WANTED HIM TO DO. He wanted the ELECTORATE TO PARTICIPATE! THEN HELP MAKE THAT HAPPEN! You add a very important part: he MUST communicate the Obstruction he is up against!

Thanks for your great call to the show!

geraldfnord

Uhhhh… Jack: a trampoline must be much stronger than an hammock.

AB_in_GA

What is the problem with the Republican party and especially the Tea Party fraction? Hypocrisy; advocating so often the freedom liberty of the people and the pulling all levers to make voting as hard as possible. Can you imagine the Tea Party actually standing behind the original tea party slogan of “no taxation without representation”?

Vanessa Deniston

“It’s a mean world down there” – Jack Beatty

THANK YOU JACK! I see things the way you do too!! It baffles me that people think those at the bottom want to stay there. Who would want that for themselves?… NO ONE! Some people have no compassion. It doesn’t help that most people making these observations don’t actually know anyone at the bottom, don’t even speak to them… don’t bump shoulders with them. This hinders empathy and compassion. I’m so glad you came out and said that. I couldn’t agree more.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Joshua-Hendrickson/1652586055 Joshua Hendrickson

“Culture of death,” huh, Ed75? I suppose I can understand why you would include abortion, but seriously, what about the rest? Euthanasia is anti-suffering, stem-cell-research is anti-suffering, same-sex-marriage is no more pro-death than is marriage for childless couples, and just because I disagree with your religious fundamentalism doesn’t imply that I want to kill you. The problem with people like you is you want a god who’s absolutely white in a black-and-white world (no, I’m not talking about race, either, so don’t go there). But if there is a god who created the world, then that god is responsible for all of it, all of the time, without exceptions, which means that god is both good and evil, just like the world god created. Really, it’s first-grade logic. But that threatens your certainty. Sorry, but reality is on our side, not yours.

tess013

The person who called about Section 8 subsidized housing is misinformed. Over 80% of the households who get Section 8 subsidies are headed by adults who either work, are disabled, or are over 65. Most of the rest are looking for work. Section 8 subsidies help people who need them, they are not just supporting slackers! He should go and talk to the people living there, not make assumptions or repeat what he has heard on talk radio.

hennorama

It’s not a real surprise that someone would think this. There has been a deliberate campaign of misinformation and distortion, and an undermining of the credibility of non-conservative media. Examples abound:

“Over $60,000 in Welfare Spent Per Household in Poverty” which broadly defines “welfare” in a ways that most people do not, and deliberately misleads.

And

“Food Stamp Participation Doubled Among Able-Bodied Adults After Obama Suspended Work Requirement.” The headline itself contains a distortion of the facts, but his seems not to matter.

And, of course the most infamous:

“there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe that government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you name it.”

Facts don’t matter, and deliberate misinformation rules the day in this crowd. Ignorance is still ignorance, and facts are still facts. Lies are still lies, regardless of how often one repeats them.
- http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
  
  Low-information voters and their self-selected low-information media go together.
  
  That the former never learn anything from the latter is a feature, not a bug.
  
  What’s changed is the elite media, who’ve largely gone in ~40 years from “comfort the afflicted, afflict the comfortable” to “don’t piss off their big name sources and don’t get uninvited to cocktail parties inside the Beltway”.
  - hennorama
    
    Well said, and too true, to the detriment of the country.
    
    Journalism has been largely outsourced to bloggers, and the media, in all its iterations, has been largely reduced to infotainment.
    
    All in the name of profits, profits and more profits for the media companies.

GreyTreed

Donald Trump said that if President Obama’s Reelected there would be hell TOUPEE!

http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

Hell toupee.

Sounds like it should have been a meme, a punchline, since the first time that blowhard said “birth certificate”. But I literally have never heard this before. Kudos.
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Joshua-Hendrickson/1652586055 Joshua Hendrickson
  
  “Hell Toupee” was the title of a Simpsons Treehouse of Horror segment about a possessed wig.
  - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
    
    Aw geez, I forgot that title. Remember the episode quite well, but still, my memory about The Simpsons is typically better than that.
    
    But I stand by my upthread comment: For satire’s sake, someone should have been tattooing this on Donald Trump’s face all this calendar year.

http://twitter.com/mofycbsj Brian

People tend to overstate these things. Yes, Obama won a
narrow popular victory. But Republican still control the House, 60% of the
governorships and almost 65% of the state legislative chambers. So we’re hardly
on the verge of a one-party dictatorship.

jefe68

That will change in the next decade if the GOP does not act to change with the growth of the minority voters.
Not to mention that the Millenniums are a larger group of potential voters than Baby Boomers.

This is going to shift, and it will do so quicker than the right thinks. The GOP is a fossil.
- Derick_Mickles
  
  If we deported every illegal alien and their descendants it wouldn’t be necessary. The large Hispanic vote that went for Obama shouldn’t even be here. That said, we have entered the era of following the law of the land only if you want to, so there’s not really much that is truly illegal anymore.
  
  P.S. The Millennials are not a larger group than the Baby Boomers.
  - Steve__T
    
    You sir are a bigot, but you know that, you are also uneducated. That you don’t know.
  - 1Brett1
    
    How would you see the deportation of EVERY “illegal alien” and their descendant being implemented? How long would it take, do you think? How much would that cost in terms of man-hours, etc., do you think? What would happen to our economy if ALL “illegal aliens and their descendants” were removed from our country? People are curious to hear your answers to these questions.
  - JGC
    
    Wait a minute, aren’t their descendants American citizens? 14th amendment and all that? What about their Constitutional rights?
GreyTreed

Gosh I hate to use this quote again but it has been so fitting during this election cycle… “people are using stats like a drunk guy uses a lamp post… for support rather than illumination!” It’s so much easier to just go out and find figures that fit your belief as opposed to the ones that are actually relevant! (State Legislators are relevant im not saying that, but you kind of cherry picked the few positives. ie left out the senate and electoral blow out)

You are right on when you said that people tend to overstate these things, There are so many intricacies and wonky policy parsing that go into determining the election process before the voting even starts! The fact of the matter is 2010 was not only a wave election for the GOP it was also a census year so districts were redrawn, as usual republicans are a lot more organized when it comes to these intricate local political procedures (aka Gerrymandering!) This helps to explain the crazy fact that Republicans will hold more than half the seats in the House while receiving less than half of overall votes. Not only less than half but they were actually beaten in the total vote count as well…WOW Dems 53,952,240 – GOP 53,402,643!! Pennsylvania is a perfect example! A relatively consistent blue state, President Obama won 52-46 yet with redistricting Dems only won 5 of the 18 Seats where they traditionally had between 9-12! This has happened in quite a few states! So overstating the significance of those numbers is something people should also be leery of! We dont live in a one party dictatorship but no matter how you slice it the country spoke as one in affirming a more Democratic path forward!
- hennorama
  
  You’re right about the use of stats, and how they can either be used to overstate or deliberately mislead. It’s further proof of both your quote, and Mark Twain famous “There are three types of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.”
  
  Allow me to give an non-election example, using fun chart I created using Federal Reserve data. It shows that GDP per 1,000 unemployed workers has been rising. Here’s a possible headline crafted from this info:
  
  “U.S. GDP Rises to $1.1 Billion per Thousand Unemployed”
  
  Reading this, one might erroneously conclude “Wow! Let’s get some more unemployed workers! We’ll get $1.1 Billion of GDP for every thousand! C’mon big business – lay off some more people!” This is hilariously untrue, but one can see how using this data could mislead, right?
  
  (BTW, data geeks – you can do this yourself. The St. Louis Fed’s research site allows one to “Create Your Own Data Transformation” using their data and interactive charts. See:http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?id=GDPC1 “Create Your Own Data Transformation” is down below the chart. Have fun!)
  
  Here’s the chart I created:

StilllHere

Join me and the voters of America in supporting entitlement reform. Our budget demands it. Contact your Congressional representatives today!

GreyTreed

and New Revenue/Defense cuts too right?
http://www.facebook.com/people/Joshua-Hendrickson/1652586055 Joshua Hendrickson

We agree. Entitlements should be reformed to be much much larger, including universal single-payer health care and a guarantee of subsistence food and shelter and free higher education; our budget demands to be increased vastly by taxing the rich and destroying bloated defense spending.
Or is that not what you meant…? *blink blink*
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Joshua-Hendrickson/1652586055 Joshua Hendrickson
  
  All kidding aside, at the very least, Stillhere, stop saying “the voters of America” when all you mean is “Americans who agree with me … but who still lost the presidential election.” You do yourself no favors by pretending that there are real and unreal Americans, although I’m sure it makes you feel warm and fuzzy about your own righteousness.
  - StilllHere
    
    I’m looking at the results of all the elections and reaching the only rational conclusion. Unreal and righteousness is what you use to hide from the facts. Good luck with that.
OnPointComments

Regardless of how anyone feels about entitlements, it’s hard to believe that 83 different programs administering over a trillion dollars in means-tested benefits (this does not include Social Security and Medicare) is the most efficient way to handle the entitlements safety net. The GAO periodically publishes lists of duplicate programs in all areas that do the same or similar work (e.g., http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2012-02-27/GAO-report-duplicate-spending/53275924/1, “GAO report: Billions spent on duplicate federal programs”), with recommendations for consolidation and efficiencies, but the reports are ignored and nothing changes.

StilllHere

Interesting stuff.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2012/11/08/the_case_of_the_missing_white_voters_116106.html

StilllHere

Hillary getting out before ruining her chances in 16 by being associated with the disaster that’s coming.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2230160/Hillary-Clinton-step-Secretary-State-days-start-Barack-Obamas-second-term.html

hennorama

Most encouraging fact of the election to me – young people (under age 30) made up an even larger share of the vote in 2012 (19%) than in 2008 (18%).

Second most encouraging fact – Florida’s election fiasco was completely irrelevant.

Third most encouraging fact – the “the ends justifices the means, we’ll say anything to get elected” crowd paid the price for their cynicism, and lost.

Fourth most encouraging fact – a few billionaires and mega-millionaires couldn’t buy the election.

Fifth most encouraging fact – math and science won. See Nate Silver and his virtual running of the table.

WorriedfortheCountry

Young people? It appears that young women were duped by the the faux war on women. Apparently they believe that Obama’s re-election somehow protected their ‘lady parts’.

They will be in for a rude awakening when they graduate and start looking for a job and in a few years when the bill comes due for the debt crisis. Who will they blame then?
- sickofthechit
  
  The Repugnicans that gave us $11 trillion of our $16 trillion in debt.
- LinRP
  
  Another man commenting on women’s inability to discern the truth about this election and their fate if the Republicans took over. If that doesn’t say it all…

TomK_in_Boston

Karl Rove says God wanted Obama to win!!!

“The president was also lucky. This time, the October surprise was not a dirty trick but an act of God. Hurricane Sandy interrupted Mr. Romney’s momentum and allowed Mr. Obama to look presidential and bipartisan.”—Karl Rove WSJ Op-Ed

Does this mean the evangelicals will be coming around?

1Brett1

Damn that Satan!!!!
- 1Brett1
  
  ….and the storm he rode in on
WorriedfortheCountry

Actually, that was Savanna Guthrie.

Gregg Smith

Since collapse in now inevitable and only a matter of time this approach has some appeal to me.

http://clashdaily.com/2012/11/dear-republican-congress-give-the-obama-everything-he-wants/

Scott B

Jack nailed it on the 2nd hand Coach bag. Saw one at a used clothing store for $20.

StilllHere

I bet it went great with your dress.
- Scott B
  
  I didn’t get it. They would have clashed. BTW, we of Scottish ancestry call them “kilts”.
  - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
    
    Kilt-wearing and a guitar avatar?
    
    Mind if I ask, Who is your favorite Scottish guitar payer?
    - Scott B
      
      I don’t have a face Scot playing guitars, but Gary Allen’s guitar player Jaime Hanna wears one on stage, and that guy rocks!

Derick_Mickles

I am ashamed to say that I shed a few tears when our nation finally fell to these Communists Tuesday Night. That said, I’m letting that sadness turn to something else, and will feed off that hatred to fight to free my people. Conservatives should do the same. Do anything and everything to stymie, harass, interdict, and break the Liberals agenda. We now enter the Resistance phase. Say little, do things in the shadows. Agree with them on the surface, and stab them in the back. We will return in 2016. “WE SHALL OVERCOME!” Fight for your freedom!

1Brett1

“Free your people”? Who are “your” people and substantiate that they are in bondage. Also, you don’t seem to know the definition of a communist. Maybe you could give us a definition just so we can be assured that you do know, please.
- Derick_Mickles
  
  Every Conservative minded, Constitutally dedicated American is apart of “my people.”
  - 1Brett1
    
    “apart”? I don’t think you know what that word means…
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      You’re a mean person. Keep it up. I need others to see what you represent.
    - 1Brett1
      
      You ignore my questions to get clarification in other comments, yet you gravitate toward this one where I jokingly question why you would use the word “apart”? (Obviously it was a typo.) You then call me mean and that you need to expose me?
      
      When one has the kind of lack of awareness you ostensibly display by posting absurd comments about communism on this forum (your lack of awareness is in not realizing how this is a move that is provocative), and when another commenter asks you to define communism but you ignore that, then it’s pretty safe to assume you are just being a provocateur. You wish to gravitate away from legitimate discussion and toward the other comments, intentionally. No one is making you reply.
      
      If you can’t handle commenting on here in the way that you do, inspiring people to take aim at your comments, then you DO have options. A) ignore others’ comments, or B) don’t comment, or C) comment and take your lumps. Pick one…
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      I know exactly what I’m doing by commenting here. I’m one of a very few Constitutonally minded Conservatives allowing myself to be beat over the head by a bunch of Liberal Bullies. I’m doing it because someone has to stand up, and this forum has a lot of lurkers, and I need them to see you beating the heck out of me, so I can motivate them to oppose your kind at the ballot box. Thanks for the lecture. Please keep them coming. Your paternal, bigoted attitude is what I must have out of you.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      I agree with you, I would never flag anyone (unless violent threats are made) and want the hate on display.
      
      Here’s what he wrote about me earlier, “…you are a racist, ignorant of comedic satire and other comedic devices.”
    - StilllHere
      
      The favorite device of the ignorant, the racist label.
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      We must draw it out of them. The more they do that stuff the better. It discreditsthem with the wider public. Good man!
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      Fire back, but never name call or be overtly mean. Try and get them to be as mean as possible, and uncivil at all times. We will rob the liberals of their greatest weapon. The weapon of “victimhood” and use it for ourselves. When you fight a Communist, you get out Mao’s little red book, and do exactly the same things they do to defeat them. Only for a alternative outcome.It’s the path to victory. Remember to be polite and level headed, and seek their abuse. Draw it out of them anyway you can, and WIN!
    - 1Brett1
      
      Ah, another one on a crusade…alrighty, then. Have at that “inquisition ” of yours…
    - Gregg Smith
      
      Not that I own the language, I don’t but we have Steve T regularly saying “That’s sick” and now an “alrighty then” from you. Imitation is the highest form of flattery. Thanks.
    - 1Brett1
      
      That’s sick!
    - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
      
      There’s a fight over what “Conservative” means.
      
      Fortunately, that’s not my fight. I’m a lefty who cares about journalism and media criticism.
      
      So, let’s let Derick and “them” (righties, Beltway Inbreds, Teabaggers, the Republican establishment) fight.
1Brett1

Derick_Mickles (in a Charleton Heston voice): “Let my people go!”

1Brett1 (in an Edward G. Robinson voice): “where’s your messiah, now?”
- http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
  
  While we’re namechecking movies: Edward G. Robinson?
  
  I’m getting more of a “Double Indemnity” vibe, with Sheldon Adelson as Barbara Stanwyck, Mittster as the feckless Fred MacMurray, and Nate Silver as EGR, the guy who figures it all out.
  - 1Brett1
    
    Yeah, Edward G. Robinson…The Ten Commandments. He was a slave master…(In an old gangster’s voice): “summon Pharaoh’s, oxen, NOW, see!
    - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
      
      He had a flair for comedy that goes unappreciated today too. See The Whole Town’s Talking.
Ray in VT

I don’t mean to be impolite, but I actually laughed out loud when I read your post.
- Derick_Mickles
  
  People laughed at the Civil Rights Movement in the 1930′s. They weren’t laughing 40 years later. So laugh it up.
  - Ray in VT
    
    I’m sure that some were laughing at the Civil Rights Movement in the 1930s, I mean who would have thought that black folks would stand up to the racist establishment and demand their rights?
    
    On the other hand, there have been varying predictions about the road to socialism or communism since at least the New Deal, and those dire predictions have yet to come to fruition, so I think that the current ones are overblown and misguided as well.
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      I’m not so sure. The frog on a hotplate effect has been in play for a very, very long time. There is a video series called “Infiltration was my job” on Youtube. You might want to seek it out if you are interested.
    - Ray in VT
      
      I’m not familiar with the video series or the frog on a hotplate reference.
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      I typoed that. I’m sorry. I’m not an educated man, and I know I’m hated for that. Here is the actual title if you’d like to view it:
      
      Yuri Bezmenov: Deception Was My Job
      
      It’s several hours worth of time, but I found it fascinating.
      
      P.S. Frog on a Hotplate, may have other colloqual variations. It means turning up the heat slowly will cook a live frog, while throwing into a hot frying pan will cause it to jump out.
    - http://www.facebook.com/bronwyn.fryer.37 Bronwyn Fryer
      
      yes, you are obviously not an educated man. It shows.
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      Most folks are not educated. I’m glad you outed yourself as the bigot you are. Will you help me become educated? No, of course you won’t. You just like kicking people when they’re down. You’re not a very nice person are you.
  - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
    
    Looks like we got us another Rosa Parks wannabee on board!
    
    Hey, I’m too white to have an opinion here. Someone of color want to chime in?
    - Ray in VT
      
      White’s a color too! Just remember, the KKK is just a benign civil rights organization for white people.
      
      Breaking news just out of Moscow:
      
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbOrt1grRrI
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      Actually, the original KKK was a Guerllia Warfare outfit. Forrest is considered the father of all Special Forces to this day. Honest! His military tactics are required reading to this day. The KKK that came later had little to do with it’s original purpose. If you’re interested in history, you can’t apply a lens of modern moral outlook if you intend to learn from it. And no, I’m not speaking about anything race based in my belief that Obama is a Communist.
    - Ray in VT
      
      It would not surprise me if Forrest’s tactics were still read. My reference was mostly a response to a text book (possibly put out by Bob Jones University Press) that essentially paints the Klan as a group dedicated to “upholding community moral standards” or some such nonsense. Regardless of what it might have been very early on, it was a racist, domestic terrorist (modern terminology) organization that engaged in intimidation and murder throughout much of the 20th century. We can certainly assign a modern moral standards to their current beliefs and their actions throughout the 1960s.
      
      It was not my intention to assign any race based allegation to your position that the President is a communist.
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      Understood. What you are referring to is the second incarnation of the KKK. That’s where they twisted the original intent and became totally evil.
  - StilllHere
    
    As long as the takers’ votes are paid for with social welfare programs, I’m not sure how this movement gains any traction. You’re asking the takers to vote against their self-interest to slack.
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      What I’m doing is taking a turn of phrase and re-appropriating it. It will infuriate them, and that’s a good thing. It puts them off balance. “WE SHALL OVERCOME” – We’re taking it back.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      If you advocate judging someone by the content of their character as opposed to the color of their skin , the libs go nuts… as they judge by the color of skin.
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      I know. It’s all they’ve got. It would be the ruin of the Liberal Agenda if people of color enjoyed the freedoms and responsibilities of liberated, adult, human beings. The Democrats never changed. They just changed tactics. “Old Black Joe’s still pickin’ cotton.”
      
      It was the Republicans that freed the slaves, passed the Civil Rights Act, etc. etc. The Democrats must have people of color dependent upon them, or they cease to exist.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      Their guy won, why do you suppose they’re so angry?
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      The best question asked today my friend.
    - StilllHere
      
      They’re already disappointed with him again.
    - anamaria23
      
      It is the takers who make the world go round- caring for your grandmas, emptying your trash, fighting your wars, mowing your lawns, day caring your children. Stuff like that . They just can make ends meet so that the givers can have it all.
Steve__T

ROTFLMAO that has got to be the funnest thing I have read and what makes it so funny is that you are serious. I can’t stop LOL oh the humanity.
- Ray in VT
  
  Wolverines!!!
hennorama

I’ve posted this opinion before, but feel the need to re-post it, for some reason …

Let’s get as many viewpoints as possible on important topics. The asshats out themselves, and do provide some entertainment value, to boot.

“Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants.” – Justice Louis D. Brandeis
- StilllHere
  
  Why are you calling yourself an asshat? Moreover, you’ve never been entertaining.
  - hennorama
    
    Egad! I’m wounded by your scintillating repartee! Please stop!
    
    Please.
    
    Your indignant disdain is understandable, especially in light of having been proved completely, spectacularly and entertainingly wrong yesterday. I can practically see you stomping your foot as you typed.
    
    As a reminder, yesterday on “The Fiscal Cliff” thread, StilllHere posted:
    
    “GM announced that it would take a $2.9B pretax charge forQ4. Had to wait for the election –is this a means to rectify politically crafted earnings?”
    
    My response, which was met with deafening, brave silence:
    
    “Once again, you’re “Still” wrong again “Here.” GM discussed this charge on Oct. 31, 2012 when they reported Q3 earnings. By my calendar, this was 6 days BEFORE Election Day.
    
    Sources:
    
    http://www.gm.com/content/gmcom/home/company/investors/earning-releases.content_pages_news_emergency_news_1031_q3_earnings.~content~gmcom~home~company~investors.html
    
    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/general-motors-good-today-not-tomorrow-2012-10-31 ”
    
    Thanks for the response, in any event.
jefe68

Wow, scary.
You really do define what Samuel Johnson meant when he said patriotism is the last vestige of a scoundrel.

Zenplatypus

Obama won because his campaign invested hundreds of millions of dollars in a spring advertising blitz to smear Romney and demagogue affluence generally. It was pure gutter politics and character assassination in their most divisive and invidious forms. Tactically shrewd to be sure, but hardly becoming of someone we’d been told repeatedly is far above such methods.

This for me is the rub: Obama won ugly. This after we’d been subjected to four-plus years of self-serving happy talk about his being some kind of highly evolved light walker who would visit spiritual enlightenment on a benighted world. At least now we can finally be done with such prattle.

In essence, Obama is just another morally stunted machine politician driven to win by whatever means necessary — an all-too-common species. His narcissism and the cult of personality that he continues to inspire, though, are uniquely frightening.

1Brett1

One would think you’d be meditating in the outback somewhere…
http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

Can’t stop laughing at these delusions.

PS You forgot the figleaf of “both sides do it” and “bipartisan” craptalk.
StilllHere

You can take the politician out of Chicago, but you can’t take Chicago out of the politician…
Bruce94

Obama won because the GOP’s philosophy & policies were rejected by the majority…And why is that? Because the majority voted in their own long-term interest.

The Party of Karl Rove and Lee Atwater, who invented the politics of personal destruction & demonization, failed miserably to win the argument this time.

That Party is not only too white, too old and too male,
it’s also too wrong on too many levels including social policy, fiscal policy and esp. tax policy.

When I read posts like yours, I think I can detect not only pathological denial, but also Far Right rigor mortis setting in.
- Zenplatypus
  
  And when I read posts like yours I detect the rank stupidity of a knee-jerk liberal.
  
  If you bothered to read newspapers you’d know that my take on Obama’s advertising strategy isn’t terribly original. Kinda like the slogans you clearly cherish.
  
  Please respond with some more.
T. Bolles

Romney did a pretty good job of assassinating his own character…is it gutter politics to point that out?
anamaria23

Actually it was Gingrich, Perry et al, who wrote the book on how to smear Gov Romney. �
There was plenty of smearing from the Romney camp
including that visited upon the 47%, a comment that will go down in the history books on how to lose an election.
What is morally stunted about bringing our sons and daughters home from war (actually DOING it) or health care for all (not it’s okay to use the ER as your health care provider) or honoring the rights of our gay and lesbian citizens. Or turning the country around from near depression or saving the auto industry. None of these initiatives are perfect, but hardly the work of a “morally stunted” “narcissist”
- WorriedfortheCountry
  
  Do we know who made the 47% tape and gave it to the media 5 months after the taping?
- Zenplatypus
  
  No doubt about it, Gingrich and company contributed significantly to Romney’s troubles.
  
  The rest of your post is marred by inaccuracies: Bush negotiated the withdrawal from Iraq; it would have happened had Obama never been born. The irony, of course, is that Obama tried to negotiate a status-of-forces agreement providing for the continued presence of U.S. troops, but upon badly bungling the talks turned around told everyone it had been his intention all along to remove our. forces in their entirety. How brilliant.
  
  And the auto industry bailout proves my point. An orderly bankruptcy reorganization would have achieved the same end, but without giving the UAW preference over secured creditors. Surprise, the same UAW figured prominently in The One’s re-election …
  
  Your take on the health care overhaul is naive and simplistic in the extreme.
- Bruce94
  
  Disqus error.
- Bruce94
  
  You’re right. The albatrosses around Romney’s neck that doomed his campaign were largely self-imposed. What Zenplaty and his ilk fail to recognize is that those early ads defining Romney’s character as that of a detached, dysfunctional plutocrat were proven accurate after the dissemination of the video featuring the 47% comment.
  
  Another character flaw was revealed by the seven-ring circus otherwise known as the GOP primary debates during which Romney went to great lengths to portray himself as “severely conservative.” Then after his nomination and beginning with the first presidential debate, Romney attempted to pivot to the middle in the unseemly style of etch-a-sketch. By the third debate, Romney could be seen channeling George McGovern (i.e. advocating world peace) in a futile effort to erase his previous bellicose, Neo-con statements & posturing.
  
  The third albatross was Romney’s selection of Paul Ryan whose notorious budget proposals would privatize Social Security, voucherize Medicare and eviscerate Medicaid. Many of us with children & grandchildren under age 55 viewed assurances from Romney et al that their proposals would apply only to those under 55 as a cynical ploy pitting one generation against another. Such divide-and-conquer tactics were also used to pit unionized workers against non-union workers, public-sector against private-sector employees, and the middle-class against the working poor.
  
  Thankfully, on Nov. 6 the electorate recognized this stratagem and rejected it in no uncertain terms.
hypocracy1

The best part was that Obama got his best material from the Republican Primary.. Thanks Newt, Perry, and Santorum!
- WorriedfortheCountry
  
  Not even close.
  
  Axelrod started on character attacks on Romney as soon as he announced in 2011.
  
  Axelrod: “Romney has no core”
  Complete BS attack on an honorable and giving man. Romney’s problem was he isn’t a natural politician — (he doesn’t spread BS very well like the rest of them).
  - Steve__T
    
    You mean like your self
hennorama

OMG! You mean (gasp!) President Obama and his campaign used well-established political tactics to win? Whatever will happen now? Is the world going to spin off its axis? Are plagues around the corner? Will dogs suddenly stop chasing cats?

It’s especially ironic and hypocritical for someone to type “It was pure gutter politics and character assassination…” and then go on to assassinate Pres. Obama’s character. Well done. I suspect you are taking lessons from some of Mr. Romney’s fellow Republicans.

Let’s sample a few choice quotes, OK?:

“They (voters) want to know what’s the truth. They’re not interested in a chameleon.” ~ Michele Bachmann, criticizing Mitt Romney’s flip flopping, speech in Florida, December 2011.

“There are a lot of other people out there that some of us wish had run for President, but they didn’t. I think Mitt Romney would be a fine President, and he’d be way better than the guy who’s there right now.” ~ Republican Senator Marco Rubio, wishing there were another candidate to pick from, The Daily Caller, March 2012

“He may not be Mr. Personality, uh, you know, this is a guy who gives a fireside chat and the fire goes out.” ~ Former GOP Virginia Rep. Tom Davis, endorsing Romney and then announcing how bland and boring Mitt is, News Channel 8 interview, March 2012

“Pick any other Republican in the country. He is the worst Republican in the country to put up against Barack Obama.” ~ Rick Santorum, calling Mitt Romney the worst Republican anyone can possibly pick to be the nominee, Racine, Wisconsin, March 2012

“Gov. Romney has claimed to have created 100,000 jobs at Bain and people are wanting to know, is there proof of that claim? And was it U.S. jobs created for United States citizens?” ~ Sarah Palin, Hannity, January 2012

“I’ve never seen a guy change his position so many times, so fast, on a dime.” ~ Rudy Giuliani, MSNBC, December 2011

“.. all those changes give me pause.” ~ Rudy Giuliani, February 2012

“Those of us who believe in free markets and those of us who believe that in fact the whole goal of investment is entrepreneurship and job creation, we find it pretty hard to justify rich people figuring out clever legal ways to loot a company, leaving behind 1,700 families without a job.” ~ Newt Gingrich, January 8, 2012

Gosh darn it – the pesky ol’ truth came out, didn’t it?

(Source:http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/07/16/56-
republican-quotes-against-mitt-romney-every-american-should-take-seriously/)
- Zenplatypus
  
  Aww, there there now. Clearly I’ve touched a nerve. I make no bones about my disdain for Obama. I believe he’s an unctuous little turd, and will tell anyone as much. The point isn’t that he resorted to gutter politics. It’s that those tactics are in direct conflict with the messiah figure you and other simpletons insist on hyping.
  - hennorama
    
    Yet another angry, hypocritical sore loser. Breathtakingly well-demonstrated, that.
    
    “The point isn’t that he resorted to gutter politics.” Hmmm … methinks you need to get your story straight and perhaps re-read your own screed.
    
    The first two sentences of your post, the traditional place one posits one’s main points:
    
    “Obama won because his campaign invested hundreds of millions of dollars in a spring advertising blitz to smear Romney and demagogue affluence generally. It was pure gutter politics and character assassination in their most divisive and invidious forms.”
    
    You go on to acknowlege the efficacy of Pres. Obama’s campaign, in a sentence you now say is where your main point was hiding:
    
    “Tactically shrewd to be sure, but hardly becoming of someone we’d been told repeatedly is far above such methods.”
    
    So your point is that Pres. Obama’s campaign tactics are in conflict with his public image? Or that he shouldn’t have used such effective tactics? Or that his tactics were distasteful and “unbecoming”? Well, you certainly made that clear.
    
    Okie dokie then.
    
    I’m sure Pres. Obama’s victory had nothing at all to do with Pres. Obama’s opponent being not terribly well-loved by his fellow Republicans, and such a political shape-shifter that most voters had stopped keeping track of the number of times he changed his views on numerous important topics. And nothing at all to do with the fact that Mr. Romney and his campaign kept self-destructing at every turn, in such spectacular ways that they failed to defeat an obviously vulnerable incumbent President.
    
    Are you similarly offended by those Mr. Romney’s fellow Republicans who could be said to have engaged in “character assasignation” when they said the things I quoted? Just curious.
    - Zenplatypus
      
      Well good, you’ve completed Composition 101 and mastered the concept of the thesis statement. Let’s move on to reading comprehension, shall we?
      
      Here’s my original second paragraph in its entirety:
      
      This for me is the rub: Obama won ugly. This after we’d been subjected
      to four-plus years of self-serving happy talk about his being some kind
      of highly evolved light walker who would visit spiritual enlightenment
      on a benighted world. At least now we can finally be done with such
      prattle.
      
      I’m sorry that you feel this was “hiding” or presented without regard for your “traditional” posting practices. Perhaps if you read more you wouldn’t have such difficulties.
      
      Now off you go to your mommy’s basement. Type me something else clever!
    - hennorama
      
      Au contraire, mon frère. J’ai tout compris.
      
      You were indeed Zen, except you wasted all but the 4 most important words in your post:
      
      Tactically shrewd Obama won.
    - Zenplatypus
      
      Touche
    - hennorama
      
      Notre échange, en bref:
      
      Sans le Salut, une poussée.
      
      Attaque au Fer.
      
      Prise de Fer, Parry.
      
      Remise.
      
      Reprise.
      
      Poussée rapière, Touché!
      
      Salut, Monsieur. À votre santé.
- Gregg Smith
  
  I don’t see anything out of line or gratuitously nasty in any of that. And none of it came from Romney anyway.
  
  What compares to the implication from Biden?
  
  “They’re gonna put ya’ll back in chains”
Gregg Smith

It’s sad because he’s a good and decent man.

spatzdavis

The Republicans lost the presidential election not just due to demographics. They tried to sell lies to a dimimishing proportion of the electorate that is white and gullible enough to believe that trickle down economics will be good for them. They lost despite the handful of billionaires spending obscene amounts of money to subvert our economy for their own greedy interests.

Derick_Mickles

I wanted Ron Paul. I decided to vote for Romney solely because he wasn’t the Communist Infiltrator Obama. I was hoping that Romney would also be a one term President, and then real change, back to strict adherence to the Constitution of the United States of America. I will never vote Democrat or Republican ever again. It’s unfortunate that we’ll have to start from scratch, but it’s been done before. God Save the Republic.
- http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
  
  “I will never vote Democrat (sic) or Republican ever again.”
  
  I’d ask you to promise that, but then I figured:
  
  I have no idea what it’ll take to get through your thick skull how wrong you and your “Communist Infiltrator” shite is. But whatever that is, it’s not worth the price.
  - Derick_Mickles
    
    Pay attention to this persons comment. This is what you should fight against. This attitude shown above. These people are not compassionate people. They are incredibly nasty little cuss’s. Remember this everytime you get down Conservatives. These folks will show us no quarter. They are an oppressive presence. Fight them.
    - Steve__T
      
      Take a Xanax and some Donepezil.
      you’ll fell better.
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      How about some Soma? Brave New World.
    - Steve__T
      
      I think that may be your problem.
      
      Soma should never be given to another
      person, especially someone who has a history of drug abuse or addiction. Soma can cause side effects that may
      impair your thinking or reactions. Be careful if you drive or do
      anything that requires you to be awake and alert.
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      Soma was a fix-all drug from the book “Brave New World.” It was an evil device of control.
      
      I’m sorry. I forgot they actually named a modern drug after it. LOL!
    - hypocracy1
      
      Your head is really going to explode when Hillary wins in 2016 and Conservatives don’t have a chance at the White House until 2024..
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      Oh boy! You bet it would. I’m resided to the fact that this will be a fight lasting several generations. My family has been here since before the beginning, and this is my home. I’m in it for the long haul, so if that were to happen, I’d just readjust and continue applying resistance, and raising another generation to take my place after I’m gone. My non-compliance with these people will never end until they are defeated. I don’t know when victory will come, but as sure as the sun rises, one day it will come.
    - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
      
      Nasty? Hahahahaha.
      
      The slightest bit of counter-opinion, and you’re all “Help! Help! I’m being repressed!”
      
      I’ll show you compassion when you merit it.
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      A gross misrepresentation of my reserve. Don’t mistake my kindness for weakness, or delude yourself that I seek your compassion. That’s more telling of your than I sir. I’m not here to fit in. I’m here to dominate.
  - sickofthechit
    
    Uh, I have a key chain that might be a good reponse to Derick_Mickles it reads
    “I’m trying to see your point of view, but I can’t get my head that far up my ass.
- Steve__T
  
  I wanted Ron Paul too, so why didn’t you do a wright in?
  You really need to chill out, your rants do no good service to anything that you want, you come off as someone that needs to be in an institution.
  You are scarey, and I hope you get treatment, before you do something stupid.
  - Derick_Mickles
    
    I’ve advocated Political Resistance to a growing Social and Political trend that I do not agree with, and you call me “insane.” Wonderful! Your outlook on life is something I can not abide. As a totally sane, Adult American, I will speak my mind, as is my right to do so. Your attack is appreciated, if only to show other silent viewers exactly what kind of mentality we are really up against. Thank you for that at the very least.
    
    I didn’t do a write in, because I knew it would be a wasted effort.
    - Steve__T
      
      You really need help.
    - 1Brett1
      
      I’d bet “Derick” is one of the usual suspects posing as some newcomer.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      “I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together” – The Beatles
    - Duras
      
      B.S., Gregg. Did you hear that Newt paid off all his debts and moved to the moon. By the time he got there, he had lost whatever wealth he had. But, even though he was all alone, he became rich and built several mansions and drove nice cars.
      
      Whoever says we are interdependent is an idiot. After that story it is obvious we are all independent.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      I have no idea what you are talking about.
    - StilllHere
      
      .
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      Don’tattackhim please. Thank you.
    - 1Brett1
      
      Kookookajoob!
    - Steve__T
      
      Just hope he doesn’t hurt someone or himself.
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      I hope you don’t lock me up in an institution for not seeing things your way. I’m afraid of you now.
    - StilllHere
      
      I wouldn’t put it past them.
    - 1Brett1
      
      You do have a flare for the dramatic….I don’t think you are handling your initiation very well. It’s concerning…
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      Thank you for the Character Assassination via a tired old cliche that has no traction with the wider public anymore. You’re a person others should be listened to indeed. Good Grief!
    - TomK_in_Boston
      
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b5aW08ivHU
    - jefe68
      
      Wow again.
    - StilllHere
      
      These things have to be said.
- http://www.facebook.com/bronwyn.fryer.37 Bronwyn Fryer
  
  what is it with you people and your cold-war ‘Communist’ thing? do you know what century you’re in?
- jefe68
  
  Wow.
- StilllHere
  
  The media wouldn’t give him any attention.

StilllHere

Obama’s speech today shows he’s entrenched and not interested in compromise. Congress should respond in the same manner.

Derick_Mickles

Agreed. This is a fight to the death politically. Conservative focus should be on pushing more support to the Tea Party, and putting all Republicans on notice that if they do not push harder against Obama and his Communist Agenda, they will be replaced. That word must be re-enforced at all levels. Federal, State, and Local. Everyone really focus on you local Sheriff. It’s a powerful position, and the right place to start if you want to run for office.

!!!!!!!!!!!!! We also need a push to get as many Combat Veterans into Political Positions over the next four years as possible. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Gregg Smith
  
  I’m starting to think Republicans should follow Obama’s style and vote “present”. Let him have everything he wants. Let’s get the inevitable collapse out of the way.
  - Derick_Mickles
    
    I’d like that too, but the reality is that if a collapse occurred, we’d probably lose our Documents in the process (shredded as they may be now) and that just can’t be allowed to happen. It will have to be a stand-up fight IMO.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      You’re probably right.
    - jefe68
      
      Man you guys sounds like a bunch of looney tunes.
    - Duras
      
      Can you even believe what they are writing? If they hadn’t been on this board for so long, I would think that it’s just liberal satire.
      
      They’ve lost their marbles. And it’s hilarious.
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      That’s what people say to every movement that later becomes reality. Ben Franklin, Gandhi, and Dr. King come to mind.
      
      I do hope you realize that you’ve become a victim of compartmentalization, due to modern techno-isolation and a society that forces others to hold their tounge to keep their jobs. You walk amongst people like us everyday. Scary to think how serious and resolute we are isn’t it?
      
      You just can’t bury your head in the sand, unless you want to be disappointed. We are here, and our views count, because we hold them to be self evident. Everytime you say mean things to us, it only strengthens us.
    - Duras
      
      Who’s trying to silence your voice? You are awesome. I can’t wait to see what you’ll write next.
      
      I think the Jefferson held some truths to be self-evident. But your views are hard to find–if I look up my own rear, do you think I’ll see what you are seeing?
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      Excellent!:))))))
    - StilllHere
      
      At least now we know where your head is.
    - DrewInGeorgia
      
      Movement you say? I had one of those this morning. Please remove Benjamin Franklin, Gandhi, and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr’s names from your trolling. Call people Communists, Nazis, and Socialists all you like but please leave truly decent human beings out of it.
      
      Ironic having an Ostrich tell us not to bury our heads in the sand…
    - Duras
      
      Is it a matter of probability or plausibility?
    - StilllHere
      
      Agreed.
    - StilllHere
      
      Makes sense.
    - Duras
      
      Does it? Does it really make sense? Or did you forget your meds?
    - Gregg Smith
      
      I would love an answer, seriously. Would you be happy if Obama got everything he wanted without opposition? Would it be good for America?
    - Duras
      
      You mean: 44% tax rates on top income, renewable energy program, public employment as a percentage of all employment around 20%, infrastructure projects, what else is it that he wants that would be considered right wing in Germany…?
      
      Oh yeah, break up the banks like they use to be, Glass-Steagall tough regulations, get rid of right to work, and a more liberal supreme court like the one America had in the 60s.
      
      Yes. I would like for America to move out of the Reagan political economy and back to the FDR/JFK political economy.
      
      You and conservatives like yourself need to get their heads out of their rears and drop the socialism crap. Because it is delusional.
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      We don’t think it’s delusional, and because we are here, it’s a force to be reckonedwith. Your insulting talk doesn’t sway us much. Just FYI. Please continue being mean. It’s helping us make allies.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      Those are your ideas not his. I mean his. No pipeline , higher taxes on the rich, higher corporate taxes, raise the debt limit, Obamacare penalties to kick in next year, higher cap gains rate, a more secular society, money to fight global warming etc.
- http://www.facebook.com/bronwyn.fryer.37 Bronwyn Fryer
  
  Delusional.
- Duras
  
  Finally, something sensible! I think republicans should forget all about college graduates and pull their politicians right of the Evangelical Churches–the more Southern and backwooded as possible.
  
  I am so sick of living under Communism. I’m lucky I still own a private journal. Where’s the spirit of capitalism? Where’s the protestant ethic? Oh, how I pine for the good old days of American Capitalism. Where did she go?
- StilllHere
  
  Good ideas.
  - Derick_Mickles
    
    Combat Veterans should be asked to run for every office available. Those people know the meaning of logistics and freedom. A big big push should be made ASAP to get our 20 something Combat Veterans into the Political Arena. All levels from local to federal. The Democrats can’t touch them. They have immunity from many attacks because of who and what they are. And most are life long Conservatives.
    - nj_v2
      
      ^ Such a cute, little wingnut circle jerk, reinforcing each others delusions.
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      Reality changes. What is considered normal at one point in time is considered radical in another. One day, you’ll be on the losing end of your nasty comments. Everything changes. Just remember that when you’re in a state of disbelief and despair. It’s guaranteed that that day will come and find you.
TomK_in_Boston

I can only hope so. No deal without tax hikes at the top and hands off SS and medicare. No negotiations with terrorists.

Obama today proposed a good approach, extend middle class tax cuts now. Maybe the TeaOP will find that a compelling vote, and then it will be easy to let the tax cuts at the top expire. I’d prefer to have them raised above clinton era levels, but I doubt we can get that from a Rockefeller republican. OTOH, the TeaOP can see the obvious strategy, so they’ll probably claim they want a “grand bargain” or nothing.
WorriedfortheCountry

Can’t fix clueless. He keeps using props too.
- StilllHere
  
  His prop this speech seemed to be that goofball Biden throwing up some Amen’s, hand-clapping, and plenty of over-the-top facial expressions.
- hypocracy1
  
  Pretty sure most of the Republican Party has already pledged not to…
  - WorriedfortheCountry
    
    Maybe he’ll take some advice from his new secretary of business.
Steve__T

They did, yesterday

JGC

Gasoline shortages in New York and New Jersey; Doritos and Cheetos shortages in Colorado and Washington states…

WorriedfortheCountry

Call FEMA

Gregg Smith

The latinos and blacks who have been calling into Rush the last two days have been outstanding. The eloquence and passion is inspiring.

Steve__T

I never listen to him after hearing him a few hours years ago I ‘ll have to check it out.
Derick_Mickles

That link below was interesting. I’m not sure how the numbers were verified, but taken at face value every black person in the nation voted for Obama, plus 300,000 more than are recognized to exist in the nation. So over 100% of the black population of the United States of America voted for Obama? I know of a black man who voted for Romney in my neighborhood. Was his vote counted as a white person or latino vote? It had to be by the article’s numbers.
- hypocracy1
  
  /meltdown
  - Derick_Mickles
    
    I didn’t write the article. What are you talking about?
- Duras
  
  In reality, 7% of the black electorate voted for Romney. But don’t let reality get in your way.
  - Derick_Mickles
    
    Could you link the official count, and try not to be mean when you do? Thank you.
    - OnPointComments
      
      CNN has parsed the voting based on exit polls. Of the African Americans who voted, 93% voted for Obama.
      
      http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/results/race/president?hpt=hp_inthenews#exit-polls
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      So where do you reckon that article got it’s numbers? Who’s numbers are correct? Thank you for not insulting me this time. I appreciate it.
      
      Edit: Oops! I though the guy I asked had posted this. Thank you OnPointComments! The question does still stand about who’s numbers are more credible.
    - Duras
      
      I saw it on CNN, but I dug this up for you: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/Decoder-Wire/2012/1107/Election-results-2012-Who-won-it-for-Obama-video
      
      And I am mean to people who are just being stupid with this communism, socialism crap. Get Real. The only response to such crazy talk is derision. Learn about politics, political history, economics. People who say Obama is a socialist pretty much reveal that they don’t know what socialism is, nor do they know what capitalism is.
      
      Get real, if you want a real conversation.
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      I could say the same to you. In my worldview you’re the one that is off kilter. You have no authority over me. My viewpoint is just as valid as yours is. I’m not intimidated or swayed by the way you’re talking to me. I’m certainly not alone in my viewpoints, not by a long shot. You think you have a monopoly over what’s considered real conversation. That’s telling. Very Control Freaky.

JGC

Did the Florida timeshare King of Versailles follow through and fire his employees yet?

WorriedfortheCountry

David Patraeus just resigned as CIA director.

Interesting given the lack of transparency on Benghazi.

UPDATE: Now blaming it on an ‘extra-marital’ affair. However, it is right before some important CIA hearings on Libya.

Derick_Mickles

WOW! I didn’t see that coming!
JGC

Well, that is sad for his family and our country.
- Gregg Smith
  
  Yes. Diane Feinstein doesn’t think his resignation should be accepted. I’m not sure.
  - JGC
    
    Maybe his soldier’s values won’t let him continue. Or maybe as head of the CIA there is added complication (blackmail). Could Obama have refused to accept Petraeus’s resignation?
    - Gregg Smith
      
      I wonder if it explains any of the strange actions involving Benghazi. I hope not.
    - JGC
      
      You know, you may be on to something there. I don’t want to think that a distraction like this let Benghazi get out of hand. The whole episode is strange, and an outlier. The flesh is weak, I guess. One reporter on NPR tonight was saying something about the stresses of the 10-year deployment to Iraq, but I don’t know if that is based on particular fact to the Petraeus situation or just general musing about anyone in the military at that time.
      
      Of course, one of my sadnesses about this is that both Holly and David Petraeus were together active in promoting veteran’s issues, with Holly holding a position in the new Consumer Bureau. providing guidance to vets and their families, who had been cheated and taken advantage of during the housing foreclosure crisis and more recently with education loans. Together they were doing a lot of good to protect our veterans (and the American taxpayer) from unscrupulous lenders.
Steve__T

The spin doctor at work. You left out, that he, without any one accusing him, admitted to the affair and was his reason for leaving, as being a poor decision on his part.

Has nothing to do with Benghazi.
- Derick_Mickles
  
  Obama smoked weed and did cocaine. Why should Patraeus quit over having a gal on the side?
  - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
    
    Ask anyone, and I mean anyone, who has worked for an intelligence agency, about coverups and “blackmailiability”.
    
    Are you that dense?
StilllHere

If only Clinton had been as honorable.
anamaria23

The hearings will go on. General Patraeus can be called before Congress from wherever he is.�

Gregg Smith

I don’t think I’ve posted these yet. Companies plan massive layoffs as Obamacare becomes reality

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2012/nov/8/picket-companies-plan-massive-layoffs-obamacare-be/

Derick_Mickles

So many Doctors are cashing in their chips over this as well. God Help Us!

Duras

CNN just reported that Obama is taxing American Wealth 100%, started up government manufacturing, balled up the Constitution, threw it in the trashcan, and then proceeded to scat in the trashcan. All white people are to report to the newly established camp sites, while their daughters are to marry at least two black convicts. The American flag has only one color now: red.

Don’t blame me, I’m just relaying info.

Derick_Mickles

Lordy! That’s not very nice.
- Duras
  
  What did you expect from his communist agenda?
  - Derick_Mickles
    
    I think you’re being a bit silly, but if this is what you believe then that’s your right.
    - Duras
      
      I guess Obama is a more subtle communist….
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      Do you think he’s a Communist?
    - Steve__T
      
      HAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAAHAHAHAHAH!!!
    - Duras
      
      Do you even know what communism is?
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      You’re the one that said you though he was a Communist here in this thread.

WorriedfortheCountry

Are these results from Chicago 2012 or North Korea?

http://www.chicagoelections.com/pctlevel3.asp?Ward=21&elec_code=19&race_number=11

Derick_Mickles

HOLY COW!!! There is no way this is correct. .58%? That’s impossible!
- WorriedfortheCountry
  
  Directly from the 21st ward of Chicago.
  
  What is the murder rate there?

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000180124240 Gabby Oliver

How did Realtor Bill get through the call screeners? Bravo Jack Beatty for his response.�
It is not just veterans, the disabled, and the super poor in public housing in our nation’s “47%” that do not pay federal income taxes.

It also comprises millions of retired seniors on social security.

AND it includes millions of working class people just like my sister. She doesn’t receive any benefits from the federal government, no food stamps or medicaid – nothing. Nor does she pay federal income tax. Why? Because she is paid minimum wage! She works one 40-hour job plus one 16-hour job, and working 56 hours per week she does not make enough money to pay federal income taxes.

Again, how did this caller even get through the screener? On Point should not be a place to spew outright falsehoods.

JGC

My favorite Canadian conservative David Frum said today:

“Republicans have been fleeced and exploited and lied to by a conservative entertainment complex.”

WorriedfortheCountry

Frum conservative? Now that is funny.
- JGC
  
  But which is more of a threat to the security of our country: the military industrial complex or the conservative entertainment complex?
  - WorriedfortheCountry
    
    Hollywood!!
    
    I do think Frum is an honest and honorable fellow but he is often delusional and misguided — maybe not this time however

Derick_Mickles

Mr. Gregg Smith posed the best question of the day below: “Their guy won, why do you think they’re all so angry? (I.e. Liberals)”

That’s a very, very good question. Do you see how they all can’t stop calling anyone who doesn’t agree with them names? Do you see all the foul language and personal insults here? There is something else going on within their ranks. Something sinister. Something almost akin to totalitarian oppression. Hurdy Gurdy Man.

Steve__T

Maybe you should go watch a movie and relax you’ve had a hard day.
- Derick_Mickles
  
  Stay on topic please, or don’t post. Thanks.
  - Steve__T
    
    Why do my posts offend you? You made the reference to Hurdy Gurdy Man.
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      Your just kind of a mean guy, and you seem to be smarmy. I just wish you’d stop being such a jerk, but I can’t stop you.
      
      Everyone look at this guy. Yeah. This guy is a Liberal. Pretty childish isn’t he. They’re in control right now. Spank them and send them home next election cycle. We can’t have children in adult bodies running this nation.
TomK_in_Boston

I’m so angry, hahahahaha

SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN

hahahahahah
- WorriedfortheCountry
  
  The first Native American Senator from MA.
  - TomK_in_Boston
    
    Please keep up the approach that helped us get rid of the nasty Ken doll. Thanks.
    - WorriedfortheCountry
      
      Nasty Ken doll?
      
      Warren won so you can lose the pretense. Brown was a hard working public servant. He clearly had the best interests of his constituents in mind at all times. You should have liked him because he was a constant thorn in the side of the GOP leadership.
    - TomK_in_Boston
      
      Oh, I was so pleased to have a senator that only voted 50% of the time with the far right. Yahoo! How wonderful! Somehow I think SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN will be a tad more thorny to the tools of the plutocrats.
      
      I call him nasty Ken because he campaigned like a high school boy. His whole campaign was sneers, except for endless repetition of his bipartisanship and an endorsement by his wife.
      
      Seriously, Worried, I think a big part of Ken’s loss is that he lost his nice guy image with all the sneering and snarking about the native american thing, “professor warren”, responding to a question about student loan debt with cracks about her salary….nasty Ken. You guys don’t help yourself with this stuff. So, please keep it up
  - Gregg Smith
    
    Did you see her press conference? Yikes.
    - WorriedfortheCountry
      
      Yes, that is what drove me to comment originally when someone said she was Presidential material.
      
      She’s unqualified to be chief of her tribe, let alone President.
- WorriedfortheCountry
  
  Also, inquiring minds want to know if Senator-elect Warren celebrates Thanksgiving and Columbus Day. Touchy subjects in some quarters.
Duras

You know Hitler ran around calling everybody a communist and when Parliment burned down, he said it was the commies and established a 1 party state.

My voter registration card reads, “DEM,” and it doesn’t connote socialist, communist.

What is more socialistic: our current health care system or Obamacare?

I’ll just say the answer: our current health care system where people go to the ER and the cost are spread across society is socialism. Obamacare is a private market system, heavily regulated and taxed, but private market.

Personally, I find the socialist tag a little dehumanizing. And I don’t know if you’ve read comments on yahoo.news but conseratives on there have gotten genocidal. I just wish you guys would learn how to argue economics instead of resorting to calling liberals names like socialist when you start to lose an argument.
- Derick_Mickles
  
  I don’t agree with the Personal Mandate, and deem it Unconstitutional. I am not really concerned with what the Supreme Court says. I’ll go along with it–I don’t want to go to jail–but I’ll fight it, and find ways to undermine it legally if I can. Then I’ll work to get the people I want in office and have it over-turned.
  
  As far as your take on Republicans, well, they want to win. So does your side, and for now you have. But do you honestly think we’re not out to take your side down? We’re going to use any tactic we need to, just as you would. We’ll wear you down, and pull every trick in the book, and someday we’ll win. Then it will be your turn to come from the bottom, and you’ll use any means you can find as well.
  
  I’m not here to persuade you of anything. It’s obvious that’s never going to happen. I am here to destroy your positions if I can. All’s fair in love and war. Good Luck, and I’ll do everything I can to fight you politically. So will you. Cheers!
  - Duras
    
    It is obvious that republicans don’t like democracy very much. They have fought for as much money to be apart of politics as possible and they have unabashedly tried to suppress the vote.
    
    Republicans actually have more in common with communist societies. For example, China hates unions, hates the humanities, is indifferent to financial inequality, uses religion to keep the masses docile, has a terrible social safety net, loves corrupting influences in politics, and is indifferent to exploited labor.
    
    You may call me a name caller, but you are the one drumming up a war beat. You comments are ambiguous and suggest a call for violence.
    
    And I’m not fighting you. I want you to talk more because it is your type of voice that is bringing the republican party down. The hubris is with you my man.
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      I disagree. Then again, we’re a Republic, not a Democracy. I don’t hate unions. You assume I’m in lock-step with the Republican Party, and I’m just not. As far as a call for violence; NEVER! That’s something inside of you that’s seeing that in my words. I’m not a head shrinker, so I can’t say why you see that. As far as hubris, well, I got you to go from posting your silly comments to talking like an adult. “Keep Comin’ Mav!”
  - Mike_Card
    
    You may deem the personal mandate oatmeal, if you like. The Supreme Court of the United States ruled it constitutional. Take it up with the judge(s). Get lost, troll.

TomK_in_Boston

The tax part seems easy. Faghetaboutit! President Obama should simply ignore the expiring tax cuts. If the TeaOP brings them up, he should pretend he didn’t hear and talk about something else.

Immediately after they expire, introduce a bill cutting taxes on the middle class, but not at the top. I’d prefer a further increase to 50% at the top, but I don’t dare hope. If the TeaOP refuses to support the Obama middle class tax cuts, keep introducing them and keep making them vote against tax cuts. The more the better

Why not?

Mike_Card

THIS JUST IN! Houston TX police report that a badly mutilated body–apparently a balding, middle-aged white male–has been retrieved from Galveston Bay. According to police spokesman Tex Kock, the body was found with its feet embedded in a tub of what appeared to be hardened concrete, although the legs were visibly broken at the knees. According to officer Kock, preliminary investigation suggests either accidental death or suicide. Stay tuned to BMN for updates.

Steve__T

LOL
sickofthechit

Did his head looked like a Canned Ham?

JGC

From multiple news blogs: Romney campaign staffers, shocked by the loss of their boss that no one (NO ONE) saw coming, were shocked once again as they left the convention center following Governor Romney’s concession speech, taking cab rides home and then finding out their campaign credit cards had already been cancelled.

WorriedfortheCountry

Fiscal conservative!!!!
- Steve__T
  
  Sorry that’s called CHEEP a guy works his a## off for you and you won’t pay his cab ride home after spending a billion on a campaign.
  - WorriedfortheCountry
    
    Oh I forgot, Romney is an evil cretin.
    - Steve__T
      
      Your words not mine.
- JGC
  
  Governor Romney would make an excellent Secretary of Business…
  - TomK_in_Boston
    
    I’d prefer someone who had actually made a product to a financial con man.
  - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
    
    From a panel of CNN’s Inbreds lips to your ears.
    
    (Your entry is snark, right? If so, well played.)
sickofthechit

That is hilarious. Oh so poetic!

1Brett1

It’s kind of a shame that neocons have doubled down on their spin of what the election means or why Romney lost, especially the parts where they say the American people want to support sponging off the government…

WorriedfortheCountry

But our ‘lady parts’ are still OK. Thank God.

Am I allowed to say God?
Derick_Mickles

I think a lot of them want Civil War. It’s not required to have a majority to win a war, and wars come in many forms (I.e. not all wars are with guns and bombs, et al.) It’s the most tenacious side that wins, and always the role of chaos in the mix.

I know. I know. “that’s insane/hahaha/take your meds” ad nauseum, but the truth of this world is: “The man who wills it most generally gets his way.” The reality of what America is has flipped for a lot of people, and it can be flipped again. If someone told a Republican we’d be where we are now 20 years ago, they’d say you were nuts. The same will be true for Democrats today. It’s endless. All that counts is the control at the end of the day. And you do that by any means needful. WE SHALL OVERCOME!
- Duras
  
  Did you know that FDR raised taxes on the rich by around 60%, broke up the banks, regulated them, made government programs, the New Deal, helped labor unions become strong, and what emerged after 3 terms of the most liberal-progressive president America ever had was a huge middle class and an economic super-power.
  
  They called FDR a “traitor to his own class,” but in the end, while a lot of the world slipped into despotism, he saved capitalism, saved American wealth, and perhaps saved democracy. And you think Obama is a socialist….
  - Derick_Mickles
    
    I do agree that Trust Busting should have been used after the 2008 crash. As far as FDR, well, some of what you say is true, but most of it is an over simplification. He didn’t save anyone. The American People saved themselves. That’s political spin; what you mostly just laid down.
    
    I don’t think Obama is a Socialist. I think his grandparents were KGB Sleeper Agents and that he’s a Communist. I know you think that’s nuts, and it doesn’t bother me one bit.
    - Steve__T
      
      It bothers me you have thoughts like that. I don’t know where you get your information. But its not based in the real world on real facts.
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      It’s irrelivent that it bothers you. “%89 of statistics are made up on the spot.” I am civil, nonviolent, and have every right to believe as I choose. I am not alone either. Maybe that’s what really bothers you. Night.
    - anamaria23
      
      Nice comment without rancor. Do not let them bring you down to their level. they are baiting us.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      Anamaria, I will happily join the faction you refer to as “they” and tell you, you are correct. We are trying to bait you. It’s too easy. I applaud your effort to make it harder. It can only lead to a more honest debate. Ironically, that is the motive for the “baiting”.
      
      I guess I should make clear I do not speak for Mr. Mickles, he may disagree.
      
      I appreciate your recognition of the advantage of the lack of rancor. I welcome the hard questions, tough choices and gut wrenching realizations. Let’s move the discourse. That means a starting point where we don’t automatically assume the “other side” is evil.
    - sickofthechit
      
      It’s not nuts, its insane.
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      Your handle; just look at it. Why did you do that? Do you really expect others to take you seriously as an adult with a name like that?
Gregg Smith

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nKZ-JqDh_A&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpAOwJvTOio
- Steve__T
  
  Did you actually re-post this crap? you are as clueless as the people in the vids. There are a lot of stupid people in the world thanks.
  - Gregg Smith
    
    Clearly Brett is wrong about the sponging thing so I posted. BTW, Steve_T (and Brett too) these are not parodies.
- Mike_Card
  
  Those are sick; way below you, Gregg.
  - Gregg Smith
    
    Why? Seriously, why?
    - Mike_Card
      
      2 old clips that might have influenced votes several months ago? They don’t add anything to the current conversation–and even tho I usually am on the other side, you nearly always demonstrate that you’ve considered what you’re writing.
      
      I’ll admit, everyone here (including me) sometimes can’t control our urges to be snarky, but still…
    - Gregg Smith
      
      I posted those in response to Brett who poo pooed the notion that people “supported sponging off the government”. The videos rebut that notion.
    - jimino
      
      Please take the opportunity to send your complaints to the newly elected REPUBLICAN Senator from Nebraska whose family business gets over $100,000 in federal bennies every year. That’s a real pro at “sponging off the government”. And it’s right out there in the open for anyone willing or able to honestly look. It takes one of the “moochers” your ilk complains about 25 years to rack up that level of freebies. You really have no idea where our tax dollars go?
    - Gregg Smith
      
      You (I think you) brought this up before and I responded. I am not familiar with the Nebraska Senator but I replied I would probably call him a “taker”. I asked you (and forgive me if I’m confusing you with someone else) if he received a check? I’ll ask again, did he receive a check or did he get a tax break which means he did not get a dime?

StilllHere

I am resigned to tax rates going up; payroll taxes, income tax rates from 25% to 28% for income above $70K … for married filing jointly and dividend and capital gains tax rates plus the Medicare 3.8% hit on top of it all.

I would suggest that those who can, pull as much income forward as possible to this year, realize gains if you’ve got ‘em and save as much of it as possible. Start cutting back on luxuries, shop cheap, reduce debt; prepare for a long, long winter.

Duras

Stage 4, acceptance…?
- Derick_Mickles
  
  Yeah, but there is a deep hate burning deep down inside, ceaselessly looking for a political opportunity for revenge. One thing is for sure: Someday it will present itself. We really are balkanizing.
  - Steve__T
    
    So you want to fracture and break apart what? where is you revenge aimed. You call your self a patriot but all I hear from you is anger at our rights as Americans to exorcise our freedoms to vote how we want to vote and whom we vote for. And that is as un-American as you can get. So the Republicans lost, I’m not a Democrat, but that’s who won. We need no further division in this country we need to come to gather as Americans for the good of all.
    The most factual thing I can tell you is the old saying “United we stand Divided we Fall”
    We need to try to get along if not……you may get what you wish for but not the way you want it. And if that happens we can all kiss America good bye.
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      Why do you enjoy putting words in other peoples mouth? You do realize that that’s a tactic that is waning in effectiveness right?
      
      No, I don’t want anything to break apart. I just see it happening. We’re past the point of respecting one another’s opinions and viewpoints in this nation, and once that happens the cracks begin to turn into crevasses, and the walls come tumbling down. Don’t mistake my observations with my desires please.
      
      Do review today’s debate, and look at your own comments. You’ve been rude, off-putting, and insulting. You’ve done a great deal to continue widening the gap between Americans yourself today. You say these things to me now, and yet you’ve worked very hard at doing the opposite all day long. You’ve got some self-actualization to do my friend.
    - Steve__T
      
      Balkanize or Balkanise (ˈbɔːlkəˌnaɪz)
      �
      — vb
      1. ( tr ) to divide (a territory) into small warring states
      2. to divide (a group or organization) into small factions
    - Steve__T
      
      If you don’t know what a word means don’t use it and accuse me of putting words in your mouth.
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      You’re down to this? Grammar Nazi? Stop doing this to yourself. You’re better than this, surely.
    - Steve__T
      
      Wow I’m a Nazi now There your words you choke on them.
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      Grammar Nazi is a populartermforthose whoignore substance and nitpickonspellingmistakesbecause theyhavenothingelse toadd tothe conversation.
Derick_Mickles

I wouldn’t worry too much. The level of criminal activity just to stay alive will increase so much the entire tax system will likely fall apart. The Fed doesn’t have the manpower to stop it. People will just stop paying their taxes en-mass eventually and the IRS will have to just sit and suck on it. They can’t go after everyone. Sad prediction on my part, but I think there is some real truth in it. We shall see, won’t we.
TomK_in_Boston

Don’t worry, you’ll be fine, food stamps, disability etc won’t be touched. Leave the worrying about taxes to those of us who actually pay them.
- StilllHere
  
  LOL, from a parasite no less.

WorriedfortheCountry

Eric Holder to CIA or new Sec. of Business?

hypocracy1

The conservative /meltdowns are even more glorious than I anticipated!

The sky IS falling Derick_Mickles! It looks like your Y 2K shelter will be useful after all!

Derick_Mickles

I know. I’m using it to harness that sadness and anger into a force that will trounce the Democrats in the future. You’ve helped me a great deal by posting this comment. Now all can see what a cruel person you are, and what side people such as yourself support, so that they can get as far away from it as possible.

Derick_Mickles

Thank you all for a wonderful, and spirited debate on the topics addressed in this On Point show. Almost to a person, the liberal faction of his discussion has acted exactly as I said they would, even as I told them what they were going to do, as they did it. Very mean guys!

The few Conservatives here: This is how you defeat these people. They can’t seem to help it. Use their nastyness against them. Goodnight all, and God Save the Republic!

Mike_Card

There you have it, trolls: Napolean reveals how he defeated Russia.
- Derick_Mickles
  
  I don’t recall you adding anything but snippy comments all day long. No substance. No opinion. No serious adult discourse of any kind. Not all day, and you’ve been here all day with us.
  - Mike_Card
    
    Back atcha.
    - StilllHere
      
      Your best stuff.

WorriedfortheCountry

Messina admits that Obama won on the small stuff.

Now that is a mandate for you.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rubycramer/messina-obama-won-on-the-small-stuff-4xvn

Mike_Card

More of a mandate than Willard got. Read the numbers, or ask vice-president-elect Ryan.
- WorriedfortheCountry
  
  Enough with the snark.
  
  But Obama got an equal mandate to the house of representatives.

TomK_in_Boston

Can’t we do something about florida? The state is incapable of running an election. It’s a national disgrace. Can’t the feds take over like they did with the NOPD?

hennorama

Second on my list of “Most encouraging facts of the election to me” - Florida’s election fiasco was completely irrelevant
- TomK_in_Boston
  
  Thank god for that! But who knows what happens next time? Florida needs to fix its system, or have it fixed for them.
  - hennorama
    
    A Right To Vote Amendment would solve a great deal of the pre-election nonsense from both major parties, but this is a long shot. If we didn’t get it after the 2000 Florida Fiasco, it’s unlikely now.
    
    There’s a crazy quilt of something like 13,000 different voting districts nationwide, each with its own set of rules. This makes it much easier to make mischief.
    
    See:http://www.fairvote.org/four-reasons-to-support-a-right-to-vote-amendment
    
    Gerrymandering can be solved, though. Look at California, which has both the California Citizens Redistricting Commission, and a Top 2 primary system.
    
    Now 14 people – nearly all non-politicians (currently 5 Dem, 5 Rep, 4 Decline To State) – draw the district boundaries. This is one way to avoid the entrenchment of incumbents and may lead to more moderates being elected,
    and fewer political extremists.
    
    The Top 2 primary system, where the top two vote-getters for each office in the primaries then go on to the general election, regardless their party preference. This may result in more moderate candidates, since they will need to appeal to voters of both major parties, as well as independents.
    
    In sum, there are solutions available. It takes a bit of work to advance them, but there’s some hope. Pres. Obama said in his victory speech “By the way, we have to fix that,” so there may be movement soon.
    - Steve__T
      
      I doubt that we will see anything thing form President Obama on this, but if the states individually do what California did, there may be a chance that other candidates may have their voices heard. We then can progress forward without this two party system that has choked the system and left others out of the race. With people just saying they voted for the lesser of two evils, because they had no other choice.

Joseph_Wisconsin

LOL All the gloom and doom here. The forecasts of economic disintegration, chaos, and civil war. I can only attribute it to all this coming from the very young, Those too young to even have experienced the Clinton years. That’s what we are talking about at most. Income tax rates returning to those during the Clinton administration. Somehow baclk then the country survived and even prospered. Some people have just became too totally isolated in the FOX News, Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh fantasy world and have become to believe that that is reality. The shock at discovering that it is not will take some time I am sure, but in the mean time just try and go about your lives as best as possible. You’ll survive, truly you will survive.

hennorama

Today, on NPR’s “All Things Considered,” NYT columnist David Brooks and Washington Post columnist E.J. Dionne (along with host Melissa Block), discussed this isolated echo chamber phenomenon. Brooks called it “epistemic closure,” “information cocoons,” and “confirmation bias.”

Food for thought. Here’s part of their exchange:

BROOKS: Yeah, you know, partisanship barbarizes and it creates this epistemic closure where people get in information cocoons.

BLOCK: Epistemic closure.

BROOKS: That’s a very useful phrase these days, believe me.

BLOCK: Translate.

BROOKS: Epistemology is the study of what we know, and epistemic closure is being in an information cocoon where you just believe what you want to believe. Confirmation bias is another phrase. And there’s a lot of that going around, not only on Fox News but apparently with Mitt Romney, who we now know was totally shocked. Well, doesn’t he read the newspaper?

And so I think people get in their cocoons, and they believe what they want to believe, and it’s a challenge for all of us.

BLOCK: E.J.?

DIONNE: I appreciate Professor Brooks’ point on epistemic closure. I think something’s happened to conservatism that’s different – it’s different than it was before. Conservatives weren’t fact deniers in the past, on the whole. And I – they’ve really lived in alternative factual universe, and Nate Silver and the pollsters were only looking at data. Conservatives said they’re just making propaganda here.

Well no, they weren’t making propaganda. They were looking at data. And I hope conservatives draw some lessons from this on global warming and other questions where they can give up their epistemic closure.

BROOKS: I should say there are liberal cocoons too, get that in there.

(LAUGHTER)

(Source:http://www.npr.org/2012/11/09/164819157/week-in-politics-fiscal-cliff-gop-soul-searching)
- WorriedfortheCountry
  
  That is hilarious. A bunch of beltway elites accusing ‘others’ of living in a bubble.
  - Gregg Smith
    
    I thought the same thing when I heard it on the radio. Brooks is completely out of touch with the pulse of fly-over country. And don’t even get me started on Dionne.
    - WorriedfortheCountry
      
      EJ deserves a special place in the hall of shame. He wrote a book bemoaning the loss of moderate Senators that was released in MAY 2012.
      
      Scott Brown was the prototype for the kind of Senator that EJ praised in his book.
      EJ then gives a full throated endorsement of Lizzy Warren — a left wing ideologue.
      
      I always knew EJ was a hypocrite but didn’t know he would go this far.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      He jumped the shark a long time ago.
  - hennorama
    
    Yes it is a bit ironic, but the fact is, Mr. Romney, his campaign, Karl Rove, Michael Barone, Dick Morris, et al were SURPRISED by the outcome. They believed their internal polling and their “experts,” who were flat wrong. The were in denial right up to and even after Fox News finally called Ohio for Pres. Obama.
    
    While I’ll admit to a few pre-election butterflies, it seemed pretty clear from virtually all the public polls, especially in the swing states, that Pres. Obama was going to be reeelected. RCP had the final national poll average as Obama + 0.7%. Only Rasmussen and Gallup had Romney +1.0% nationally.
    
    RCP’s pre-election swing state averages had Pres. Obama up in OH, VA, NH, IA, CO, NV and WI, and Romney up only in FL & NC. Pres. Obama nearly had a complete sweep, winning 8 of these 9 states, losing only NC.
    
    And of course Nate Silver’s FiveThirtyEightBlog was nearly perfect in forecasting.
    
    All Mr. Romney et al had to do was open their eyes to see this coming.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      You say “… finally called Ohio for Pres. Obama” when FOX was the one of the first if not the first to call it. Your bias is showing. I was watching and Romney was well ahead when they called it for Obama. That makes people scratch their heads. It was totally appropriate for Rove to ask why. The anchors did not ask why, they just reported the results. It was helpful to the viewers and good TV. So were Megan Kelly’s legs (forgive me). The answer from the decision room satisfied me and they body slammed Rove at the same time. What’s not to like? I do not understand what the fuss is about.
      
      Polls are wrong all the time. Dewy defeats Truman. Gore wins Florida. Kerry wins according to exit polls. When the stakes are so high transparency and explanation is good. If they were always right we wouldn’t have to bother voting at all.
    - hennorama
      
      Not bias, fact. Fox News was almost dead last among the news networks. NBC/MSNBC were first at 11:12 PM, then CBS, CNN, Fox News at 11:18 PM, with ABC last bringing up the rear at 11:23 PM.
      
      After all the news networks had called it, Rove questioned the Ohio call by Fox News. Several awkward minutes later, Ms. Kelly teetered on her high heels down a long hall until she found the Fox News election nerds huddled around their computers. The Fox News nerds said they were “quite comfortable” and “there just aren’t enough votes left” for Romney. They said they were “99.95%” certain, when asked by Ms. Kelly.
      
      It was indeed “good TV” but not in the way you mean. Rove was so wrong it was laughable.
      
      Ms. Kelly was indeed quite good in rebutting vaunted political expert “turd blossom” Rove’s rather desperate denials in the face of the facts. This particular question by Ms. Kelly to Rove may live forever:
      
      “Is this just math that you do as a Republican to make yourself feel better, or is this real?”
      
      Jon Stewart, on The Daily Show the next evening, captured the entire absurd episode, which you can watch here:
      http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-november-7-2012/post-democalypse-2012—america-takes-a-shower—karl-rove-s-math
      Individual polls are indeed wrong with some frequency, as the national polls by Gallup and Rasmussen demonstrated. But when an overwhelming number of polls, in keystates, all point the same way, one can be pretty confident in the overall accuracy.
      Thinking that these polling experts were ALL wrong is imprudent at best, and foolhardy at worst.
      
      After all, isn’t the private sector always right?
    - Gregg Smith
      
      “Almost dead last among the networks”.
      
      Beautiful, narrow the field and use a qualifier (almost). That’s hilarious! So they were second (among the networks). Wouldn’t that be one of the first? Are ABC, AP, Reuters and others biased for not calling Ohio before FOX. Alrighty then. BTW, I’m taking your unsourced word for it. What’s with the nerd talk? Why do you equate Rove with Fox. He’s just a contributor not a host.
      
      I have no idea what your beef is other than pre-conceived notions about Fox.
      
      Regarding the polls you seem to be saying any duffs should knowObama was going to win. That’s crazy. Many polls in swing states showed Romney ahead. Even the ones that showed Obama ahead showed the incumbent under 50% which has historically been fatal. You are not making sense at all.
      
      Rove was wrong, what’s your point? So what? With Romney up and 23 million votes left to count the race was called. They were right but the question was legit. Rove is not Fox. Do you think a contributor like Toure for MSNBC represents MSNBC when he talks about the “Niggarization of Obama” by Romney? On second thought….
    - hennorama
      
      Wow. Take a breath, OK? I understand that you’re disappointed. The experts you thought were right were completely wrong. That sucks. I get it.
      
      I’m not making any judgment about Fox News not being first, nor last for that matter. But they weren’t first, and were nearly last. They came in 5th out of 6, which you can confirm if you wish. I was clearly discussing TV news networks and not AP or Reuters or even McClatchey.
      
      But it’s not worth arguing over, because they ALL GOT IT RIGHT!
      
      Then Rove became the story. Rove’s denial is understandable, as he had directed abd influenced the spending of hundreds of millions of dollars in this election, and squandered them all. I didn’t equate Rove with Fox News at all – I said he questioned the call by Fox News.
      
      “Nerds” is not a derogatory term in my lexicon. And c’mon – those Fox News guys are election nerds, just like Nate Silver. In fact, I think Silver is the nerdiest election nerd of all. The nerds also ALL GOT IT RIGHT. Nerds rule! I suppose I could/should have called them “election geeks” but why quibble? I’m no nerd vs. geek expert by any means. However, these sites claim there are ways to tell the difference, and are pretty funny:
      
      http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2012/01/04/geek-vs-nerd-the-infographic/
      
      http://www.wikihow.com/Tell-the-Difference-Between-Nerds-and-Geeks
      
      I wouldn’t expect Fox News to call an Obama win first, given their obvious bias. Similarly, I wouldn’t expect MSNBC to call a Romney win first. I’m not in any way saying Fox was trying to hide any results. They were just a teeny bit slower than NBC, MSNBC, CBS and CNN, for whatever reason.
      
      I don’t have any beef with Fox News. They make their biases crystal clear, and I find it interesting and often amusing to watch their entertaining shows. It’s a bit like “opposition research.” Fox News called the election correctly, and refuted Rove’s denial well, all to their credit.
    - WorriedfortheCountry
      
      However, there somewhat of a bimodal distribution in the polling. Also, there was a ‘argument’ that early voting led to larger errors in the survey. Finally, there appeared to be a ‘wave’ of support for Romney given the large crowds, etc.
      
      Gallup had Romney up by 5-6 before Sandy. Maybe that big Chris Christie kiss had an effect.
      
      Polls have been wrong before (famously in Carter vs. Reagan). The untold story here is why was Romney’s raw vote total lower than McCain’s. Romney was a much more compelling candidate than McCain. If Romney had exceed McCain’s vote total by a few points he would have won easily.
      
      I’m still amazed that so many voters were willing to reward Obama’s deceitful and divisive campaign. However, I’m also surprised that so many voters rewarded Obama with a second term simply based on his record. I’ve always thought Obama was a poor leader — before and after the midterms so you can’t blame an obstructionist congress. After the midterms, almost every action (executive orders and legislative proposals) were based on cynical politics of division. Again, no apparent penalty by the voters.
    - Steve__T
      
      If it weren’t for the redistricting and subterfuge by the republicans he may have done better in NC.
    - WorriedfortheCountry
      
      Doesn’t NC have a Dem gov?
      
      What subterfuge?
    - Gregg Smith
      
      I hate to sound selfish but we have the first Republican Governor in over 20 years. In 2010 Republicans took control of congress for the first time in 100 years. My State will fare better than most. Certainly California.
Gregg Smith

Obama is no Clinton.
StilllHere

Where will the bubble come from? Nobody cares what tax rates are when there’s a bubble; but if there’s not, watch out.

http://profile.yahoo.com/NAQ3DAWTSNDWDUON7H2ZEBWLFA Robert

Some of the right wing wackos on here continue to spew the same nonsense that contributed to Romneys loss. They have to let race hating go. Stop being waspy and in denial. The caller for example trying to back Romney ‘s 47% comment talking about he sees complexes of people living on section 8 housing.Probably a code word for his racial perceptions. Now for me the truth is the only people I know living like that unfortunately are my mother in law and her boyfriend ,both white, living on disability somehow without a solid work history,food stamps constantly trying scam to live off the gov’t and they both voted for Romney and called President a muslim. Just part of the race problem and disillusionment of a lot of people.

Gregg Smith

“Probably a code word for his racial perceptions.”�
That’s sick. There are more whites on food stamps and welfare than blacks. Why does the left equate poor with black?
- Steve__T
  
  Most don’t, You are one of the people I think would appreciate this interview, It has a lot of what we both believe to be the problems facing us all, and call out President Obama’s short coming’s and where he needs to be pushed. I found it to be a very interesting discussion, I hope you take a look.
  
  http://www.democracynow.org/2012/11/9/tavis_smiley_cornel_west_on_the
  - Gregg Smith
    
    I didn’t hear that show but I’ve heard a few interviews (NPR, Hannity) with them when they were promoting their book.
    
    I like them both but can’t say I agree with much. I do indeed appreciate their opinions and the way they present them. Maybe it’s semantics but I can’t buy into the notion Obama is not a progressive. He even talked about it before he was elected regarding health care. He said he was a proponent of single payer but it might not happen at once. Getting something in place was the most important thing. Single payer is coming. That’s a progressive strategy. He said the same thing about gas prices, he favors high prices but would have preferred a slower (progressive) escalation.
    
    I do agree with much of their criticism of Obama but would take Obama’s side on some of it. They are trying to move discourse through honest and civil debate. I respect that.
    - Steve__T
      
      Thank’s for your reply and taking a look the the link.

hennorama

This election was another in a long line of victories resulting from the passage of the Voting Rights Act in 1965, which outlawed discriminatory voting practices.

Who elected Pres. Obama? Probably the most racially, ethnically and culturally diverse electorate in U.S. history:

93% of African-Americans.
71% of Latinos.
73% of Asians.
60% of Young voters.
53% of Women.
39% of White voters.

After almost 200 years of virtally unchallenged electoral dominance, white men are in denial, and are kicking and screaming over the outcome. Witness Karl Rove’s ridiculously stubborn denial of reality after Fox News called Ohio for Pres. Obama, and Bill O’Reilly’s lament:

“The white establishment is now the minority,” O’Reilly said. “And the voters, many of them, feel that the economic system is stacked against them and they want stuff. You are going to see a tremendous Hispanic vote for President Obama. Overwhelming black vote for President Obama. And women will probably break President Obama’s way. People feel that they are entitled to things and which candidate, between the two, is going to give them things?”

“The demographics are changing,” he said. “It’s not a traditional America anymore.”

Bill O’Reilly – just a more politically correct Pat Buchanan?

For those unfamiliar with Mr. Buchanan, here’s one of his pearls of wisdom from his book, “Suicide Of A Superpower.” Speaking of the era of segregation, he wrote,

“Back then, black and white lived apart, went to different schools and churches, played on different playgrounds, and went to different restaurants, bars, theaters, and soda fountains. But we shared a country and a culture. We were one nation. We were Americans.”

Those were the days, according to Mr. Buchanan – the good old days of “separate but equal.”

Republicans got a cold splash of water in their faces on Election Day, and they have a great deal of work to do if they want to reverse the outcome.

Here’s a breakdown of Mr. Romney’s voters:

59% of Whites
6% of African-Americans.
27% of Latinos.
26% of Asians.
44% of Women.
37% of Young voters.

Sources:

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/11/types-people-who-voted-obama/58794/

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2012-exit-poll

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/10/twelve_pretty_racist_or_just_crazy_quotes_from_pat_buchanans_new_book.php

Gregg Smith

I hate racial politics. I hate pandering.

Republicans have more hispanics in Congress than Democrats. The convention featured Mia Love, Condi Rice, Marco Rubio and other minorities. We had Herman Cain but Democrats called him a “Monkey in a window”. Who is hated by the left more than Clarence Thomas? Colin Powell was called “uncle Tom” and much worse until he endorsed Obama.

It makes no difference. Republicans talk about debt and GDP while Obama makes the illegal legal with the stroke of a pen. Republicans talk about personal responsibility and Obama runs ads in Mexico explaining ways for illegals to get food stamps. Republicans talk about saving entitlements and Obama passes out free phones. Which resonates more?
- astrom1970
  
  Key word “talk.” Republicans TALK about debt and GDP, but lack record to back that talk up. Same on other issues. Lots of talk, but when they get power they leave the country in shambles, which usually results in a Democrat being elected to fix things. (e.g. 1929, 1992, 2008)
  - Gregg Smith
    
    GDP was humming at a much higher clip during the Bush years than now. In 2007 after four years of raging wars and tax cuts the deficit was $162 billion. So there’s that.
    
    But you missed the point. I was talking about the campaign. Campaigns don’t legislate, they talk.
    - astrom1970
      
      It is easier to sell your “talk” if you have actual goods to back it up. Republicans have little to offer. All they need to do to get back national majority is:
      
      1. Get off their high horse on social issues;
      2. Get real on the economy and budget. Their “deeply held beliefs” are hurting the country.�
      3. On foreign policy… well, too late. The events over the past ten years have already proven them wrong. Cost us all dearly, but we can move on now.
    - TomK_in_Boston
      
      Sure GDP was humming. Do you remember that we had a housing bubble financed by wall st insanity? That contributes to GDP, as does military spending. Voodoo econ and neocon wars absolutely can fire up a great party. Unfortunately the hangover follows, and the bigger the bubble, the longer the downer. That’s why it’s so sick for the right to blame the President for the current situation. For stable long term growth, we need taxes and regulation.
- William
  
  Will the Republicans try to “out Santa” the Democrats? Citizenship for illegals will happen within a year, but that won’t do much for the Republicans in the long run and most likely will cause some of their base to stay home the next election.
  
  The Republicans need to come up with their own “Santa wish list”.
  �
  - Compensation for legal U.S. citizens that have suffered discrimination, crime, loss of wages, job etc…from an illegal immigrants.
  -Voucher for legal U.S. Citizens to cover the cost of putting their children into private schools due to failing public schools.
  
  The burden of proof can be the same as required under the recent Dept. of Ag. discrimination suit with black farmers.
  - The amount of compensation should be determined by a new government agency (Dept of Fairness).
- hennorama
  
  Wow. “Republicans have more hispanics in Congress than Democrats.” NOT EVEN CLOSE, my good friend. As Pres. Clinton said “It’s Arithmetic.”
  
  30 Hispanics/Latinos are currently in the 112th Congress – 22 Democrats and 8 Republicans. There will be a record-setting 31 Hispanics/Latinos in the next Congress – 23 Democrats and 8 Republicans.
  
  (Source:http://www.infoplease.com/us/government/112-congress-hispanics.html)
  
  There will also be a record number of women in Congress next year, with at least 101 women, up from 90 in the 112th Congress. There are still races that are too close to call, so there may actually be a larger total. There’s another significant change as a result – there will now be more women than men in the House Democratic Caucus.
  
  My point was not about racial politics, but rather about the increased diversity of the electorate, in large part due to the Voting Rights Act. White males’ electoral dominance is waning. The fact is that the Democratic Party has built a diverse coalition, whereas Republicans have not. Demographic factors are working against the Republican Party, and they need to figure out how to respond.
  
  As to the rest of your post:
  
  Pres. Obama discussed the deficit, debt and GDP, and made significant proposals to address them, but was thwarted by Republican obstinance. Something will have to give soon, with the “fiscal cliff” looming.
  
  Ignoring undocumented young people who entered the U.S. before they were adults will simply result in another generation living in the shadowy world of the underground economy, and will deny them virtually any chance of economic advancement. We clearly need immigration reform, and the outcome of the election makes it more likely Republicans will see the light on this issue.
  
  Obamacare is all about personal responsibility, and is mostly a gift to private insurance companies and medical providers.
  
  The “controvery” over outreach to Hispanics about SNAP, WIC and Child Nutrition Programs, and the partnership with the Mexican government (started in 2004 under Pres. Bush II) is not controversial. It’s merely informing people about their potential eligibility. What’s wrong with that?
  
  (Source:http://www.fns.usda.gov/cga/factsheets/reaching.htm)
  
  Pres. Obama has discussed reforming “entitlements” and directly addressed Medicare and Medicaid through Obamacare. You may not like the reforms, but they are reforms nonetheless.
  
  This “Obama passed out free phones” nonsense has been debunked so often that it has become silly to discuss. I’ll do so in an effort to enlighten you. Perhaps you’re referring to yet another program started under Pres. Bush II, which provides low-income people with free or cheap phones. The idea for subsidized phone services originated during the breakup of AT&T under Pres. Reagan, and finally began after the passage of the Telecommunications Act of 1996. It’s paid for by telecom companies via the nonprofit Universal Service Administrative Company, and not by taxpayer funds.
  
  Sources:
  
  http://www.fcc.gov/guides/lifeline-and-link-affordable-telephone-service-income-eligible-consumers
  
  http://www.usac.org/about/about/universal-service/default.aspx
  
  http://www.freegovernmentcellphones.net/basics/qualify
  - Gregg Smith
    
    Apologies for my error, “Congress” was not the word I should have used. I heard it wrong and I’m not sure where. I had a feeling I should have checked better before posting. What I was referring to is the Senate and Governorships where Republicans have more hispanics than Democrats. I believe there are more female Republican Governors as well.
    
    As I said, it makes no difference to the populous. Republicans could have 435 House Hispanics and 50 Senate Hispanics and they would all be hated by Democrats. It would not sway votes. That’s my point. I don’t think Republicans should choose candidates based on race. I don’t think race should be a consideration is any decision.
    
    Obamacare guts Medicare and does not address Social Security. He said he would reform SS in 2008.
    
    I know the phone thing but you are missing the point. First of all quit with the Bush thing. The program (by design) exploded under Obama. Big time. People do the same with “Fast and Furious” by saying Bush started it. He did not. The voters in question believe Obama gave them phones, that’s the point. That is not an accident. The term “Obamaphone” was made up for a reason. I am talking about the appeal to voters. It’s the same with Food Stamps, use has exploded. The thing that is wrong with the ads is they appeal to illegals. Obamacare covers illegals. Free stuff gets votes, Advocating personal responsibility does not.
    - Steve__T
      
      Just when I think you can be reasoned with you become unreasonable
    - Gregg Smith
      
      You never thought I was reasonable.
      
      Are there less people on Food Stamps? Should race be a factor in electing leaders? Does free stuff not get votes?
    - hennorama
      
      Thank you for your response. No worries – we all make mistakes, even so-called experts like Rove, Barone and Morris. (Sorry – I’m still unable to avoid using them as examples of failure).
      
      One day, race and gender will not be electoral factors, but that is simply not the case in the real world right now, unfortunately.
      
      We have come a loooooooong way toward that ideal, however. The 2008 Presidential election was destined to be historic, either by having the first female, or the first black President. This is great for our country, and was something many doubted they would ever see in their lifetime. This is true progress.
      
      Democrats don’t really hate Republicans. They hate the policies they espouse and enact, and the many stupid things that come out of their mouths. “Legitimate rape” and “47%” fairly leap to mind.
      
      I find it truly odd that many Republicans and others perceive politics as purely transactional, that voters will only be swayed by money, or “stuff” as Bill O’Reilly bloviated “…there are 50% of the voting public who want “stuff.” They want things, and who is going to give them things – President Obama.” Same thing with Mr. Romney’s “there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe that government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you name it.”
      
      This is a load of cynical, fact-free, delusional nonsense. This is a belief that ideas don’t matter, that character doesn’t matter, that aspiration doesn’t matter, that inspiration doesn’t matter, that priciple doesn’t matter … that nothing matters but money and “stuff.” If money and “stuff” were the only things that mattered to voters, why would any of “the 47%” have voted for Mr. Romney, or any of “the 1%” have voted for Pres. Obama?
      
      O’Reilly’s bloviations can be viewed here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nj9e3JLGkA
      
      I’d research the Hispanics/Latinos elected at all levels of state and Federal government, but I find this a bit tiresome just now.
      
      And it’s just amusing to point out that programs many Republicans and others are critical of have their origins in Republican administrations, or in Conservative think tanks. Good ideas can come from both sides, no? I find a great deal of the Heritage Foundation’s ideas intriguing, including on reforming Social Security, for example.
      
      BTW, I’m not in the “Blame Bush” camp. I blame Canada.
      
      I find it increasingly tiresome to rebut all these claims, Gregg. “Obamacare covers illegals” ?? No, it doesn’t.
      
      Undocumented immigrants will not be allowed to buy health insurance in the health exchanges, even if they pay completely with their own money.
      
      And, according to the Hastings Center, “With the exception of emergency medical care, undocumented immigrants are not eligible for federally funded public health insurance programs, including Medicare, Medicaid and the Child Health Insurance Program (CHIP).”
      
      Source:http://www.undocumentedpatients.org/issuebrief/health-policy-and-access-to-care/
      
      Check the facts before you post, please.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      Generalize much?
    - Gregg Smith
      
      There is no requirement to show legal status in Obamacare. There are something like 22million illegals in America. You tell me how that is not covering them. Of course Obama has made many illegals legal as shown in the devastating comment you will not touch.
      
      I’m talking Obamacare not Medicare, Medicaid and CHIP.
      
      I guess I need to turn up the snark a bit because you’re getting pretty full of yourself. Google is not knowledge. Not even close. You are the one who needs to check your facts but don’t stop there, think. Don’t assume a little googling does that. Pay attention as events unfold, remember and and draw on that. And for God’s sake get out of the echo chamber.
    - hennorama
      
      Please enlighten us all by proving your assertion “Obamacare covers illegals.”
    - Gregg Smith
      
      I’ll reply up a bit (above the comment I wish you would reply to).
  - Gregg Smith
    
    Often times my larger point gets lost in the weeds or misdirected. Your comment on immigration is quite troubling. It is also irrelevant, especially to my point.
    
    You say we need immigration reform, who disagrees with that? Candidate Obama said he would introduce immigration reform. President Obama did not even try. King Obama sidestepped the legislative process and did it with an ink pen. No debate, no public discourse, no vote. That is NOT Democracy. That is pandering. That got him votes. That is my point.
    
    You reminded me of another of Obama’s huge colossal flip flops. He already took a position and even suggested it was illegal. I agree with this Obama 110%. (skip to 1:07 if you’re pushed for time).
    
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfZ3kaKZoIw
    - hennorama
      
      Well, first of all, Pres. Obama was asked a specific question about Temporary Protective Status:
      
      “What if, at least, you grant Temporary Protective Status (TPS) to undocumented students?”
      
      The President responded by defining TPS, and said it was not appropriate to use TPS for a particular large group, rather than the narrower way TPS has been traditionally used – a country-by-country designation, based on temporary adverse conditions (war, for example) existing in certain foreign countries.
      
      DACA (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals) is not the same as TPS. It is more of a recognition of how immigration enforcement is being much more narrowly focused on the issues of public safety and national security rather than wasting resources on low-risk individuals. Each administration uses prosecutorial discretion differently and Pres. Obama has made it clear how he wants DHS to use its discretion in this way.
      
      DACA is quite similar in many respects to the DREAM Act, which was originally a bipartisan proposal by Sens. Dick Durbin and Orrin Hatch (during the admin. of the President whose name one dare not speak). Why it has repeatedly failed is a mystery to many, including me. Several states have not waited for Congressional action, and 11 now having some version of the DREAM Act.
      
      I suspect most of this will be made moot soon, as Republicans in Congress slowly come around to the idea of the need for real action on immigration, and not just “Self-deportation.”
    - Gregg Smith
      
      You are amazing. You’re splitting hairs big time. Granting status is granting status. It not “more of a recognition” of squat. We don’t have a King. It is not done with a stroke of the pen. There is a legislative process and the people have a say. Your “end justifies the means by whatever means necessary” position scares the hell out of me and your guy is in charge.
    - hennorama
      
      If one is granted a deferral under DACA, one does not receive lawful immigration status. That’s no different than TPS, which also does not confer a lawful immigration status when granted. Both are temporary benefits.
      
      Quoting directly from the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) site, which handles the “Consideration of Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals Process”:
      
      “Deferred action is a discretionary determination to defer removal action of an individual as an act of prosecutorial discretion. Deferred action does not provide an individual with lawful status.”
      
      It’s not splitting hairs, it’s a legal difference with significance. It’s not the ends justifying the means, but rather a legitimate Presidential power. It’s called “prosecutorial discretion” just as it says in the quote.
      
      Better luck next time.
      
      Source:http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=f2ef2f19470f7310VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=f2ef2f19470f7310VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD
      
      And:http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=848f7f2ef0745210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=848f7f2ef0745210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD
    - Gregg Smith
      
      Okay, I just went through and deleted all kinds of nasty stuff that I should say. I’ll be patient but it’s hard. I’ll just stick to the facts, leave the above (now also deleted) paragraph and add: You are taking gobilty-gook.
      
      Watch the video again, closely this time. You are confused. There were 2 questions. One from the host and one from “J. Tamar”. Obama answers them separately and in inverse order (J.Tamar’s first and the host’s last). The Host asked about the EO and the blogger asked about TPS. Why are you googling TPS? Obama’s answer to the host’s question began: “With respect to the notion that I could just suspend deportations through executive order, that’s just not the case.” but please listen (again) to his most excellent reasoning.
      
      That’s exactly what he did. WE DON”T HAVE A KING!!!!!
      
      Graciously biting my tongue on your last sentence.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      You have zero credibility if you don’t answer this one Mr. better luck next time.
  - Gregg Smith
    
    I’ll try not to be too long but this gives me a chance to elaborate on my admonition to you: “Google is not knowledge… Pay attention as events unfold, remember draw on that.” I should clarify Google is a great tool to flesh out details when you know the context and remember the debate.
    
    Let’s go back to the Joe Wilson “You lie ” episode at the SOTU address. The outburst occurred when President Obama said illegals were not covered. The narrative was set for those not paying attention that Wilson was just a a$$hole Republican from SC (probably racist). That was as far as it went with most. The other side is he is a very concerned citizen appalled that Obama was lying to the nation. Sam Alito did the same thing but was much quieter. He mouthed the words “Not true” (AKA You Lie) when Obama said the SCOTUS rolled back a 100 years of jurist diction.
    
    The lie began before that during the Obamacare debate when it was pounded into our heads that we had 47 million uninsured. That number was dishonest on a few levels. I’m happy to expand on that at your request but I’m trying to stay focused here. The one level of dishonesty that applies here is that to get to 47 million he had to add 17 million illegals. The 47 million number was cited over and over and over by Obama, his surrogates and the media. I trust you remember. So there’s that.
    
    Just before the SOTU address us right-wing nuts on radio figured this out and there was a bubbling up of dissent. Obviously the MSM were not going to report it widely but it did get some traction. For that reason when Obama stepped up to the podium he all of the sudden and for the very first time said we had 30 million uninsured. It was such a shameless flip Joe Wilson exploded. Of course it did not reflect the dastardly agenda it just covered his butt.
    
    Republicans were very concerned with the issue and proposed measures to make sure illegals were not covered. They were rejected. There are zero, zip, nada protections. There is no oversite. Illegals can easily get SS numbers and various documents that really are not needed either.
    
    So, I don’t claim Obamacare has a line somewhere that says “cover illegals” but there is no way to stop it. They’re covered.
    - hennorama
      
      Alrighty then. So as I understand it, your proof of your assertion that “Obamacare covers illegals” is:
      
      [There are zero, zip, nada protections. There is no oversite. Illegals can easily get SS numbers and various documents that really are not needed either.
      
      So, I don't claim Obamacare has a line somewhere that says "cover illegals" but there is no way to stop it. They're covered.]
      
      I’m pretty sure saying you’ve proved your assertion by repeating your assertion would be laughed out of any court, debate hall, or high school classroom. It has the ring of “Because I say so.”
      
      This reminds one of Mr. Romney’s remark during the first debate:
      
      “So there’s no economist that can say Mitt Romney’s tax plan adds $5 trillion if I say I will not add to the deficit with my tax plan.”
      
      If you say so, chief.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      Maybe you weren’t paying attention or maybe you don’t remember the “47 million uninsured’” drumbeat. The health care speech to the joint session (it wasn’t a SOTU address) was 9/9/2009. Google it (you like google) with a custom date range and you’ll see. The number included illegals. Why? Because Obama always intended they be covered. Why would he include them? It’s not a rhetorical question. It’s not irrelevant. Obama (the progressive) has always intended Obamacare to cover illegals. Why would he reject safegards? Why? You gloss over context, fine. What does contexts matter? Did you listen to Obama’s rhetoric early on about immigration? Does it not matter that illegals are not prohibited?
      
      Okay smarty pants, it kicks in in 2014. Here is the proposed (not the actual not been made yet form) IRS form:
      
      http://s3.amazonaws.com/atrfiles/files/files/wolf_final.pdf
      
      See line 10. Illegals are exempted from the personal mandate.
      
      Partisanship makes you blind. Ideology is a bitch. Keep your head in the sand.
    - hennorama
      
      I must admit I laughed out loud when I viewed that BS form. It was well-done, but completely fake.
      
      Yes, I recall the ACA arguments and controversies, but all that is long over. ACA is now the law, and there is significant work to be done to implement it, including the IRS going through the process of proposing REAL ACA-related Draft Forms for 2014. The IRS is going to have enough to do for 2013 very soon, as it seems quite likely that significant tax law changes are coming, due to the impending fiscal cliff.
      
      The Census Bureau reported about 50 million uninsured in 2010, then about two months ago reported a lower number for 2011 – 48.6 million. The drop was attributed primarily to the ACA provision allowing kids under 26 to be covered under their parents’ health plans. Obamacare is already working.
      
      The ACA doesn’t cover everyone, notably undocumented immigrants. There will also be some who are eligible for Medicaid who will fall through the cracks, and some will be unable to afford coverage.
      
      Why were 47 million uninsured discussed first, then changed to 30 million American citizens? Simple. In negotiations, one asks for as much as possible at the start, then one pares back as negotiations progress toward agreement. This isn’t surprising or controversial – it’s an everyday practice.
      
      If you can demonstrate some way undocumented immigrants will be covered under the ACA (Obamacare), with the exception of emergency medical care, please do so. Simply saying it doesn’t make it true.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      Now you are insulting my intelligence. They didn’t negotiate down to 30 million. They (Obama) said there were 47 million uninsured they did not say , “hey we’d like to start the bidding at 47 million”. At the time there were 17 million illegals, when he was called he changed the number for his big speech. That’s pretty pathetic Hennorama.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      Oh, and regarding the IRS form, it’s just a mock up but it’s real.
      
      http://www.atr.org/irs-tax-form-obamacare-individual-mandate-a7274
    - hennorama
      
      I guess all this vitriol is understandable, but arguing over these details is just perpetuating the disagreement over settled issues. Pres. Obama won. ACA is law. DACA is in effect.
      
      I’d prefer to discuss how we can work together to solve real problems rather that continuing to engage in these exchanges.
      
      If you wish to continue to argue, that is perfectly fine. However, you will need to get a new opponent, as I am disengaging on these topics. I believe both of our positions are clear, and further time spent on these topics adds little to the discussion and does nothing to solve the problems we face.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      Vitriol? Get offyourhig horse. You lost the argument.

http://twitter.com/Jinx1338 Jinx1338

heyall

Gregg Smith

I would never cheat, ever. Nor have I ever. I travel and in my line of work there are opportunities. I wouldn’t think of it. However, I try not to be judgmental about these things. I don’t know individual factors or “arrangements” or extenuating circumstances. It’s none of my business. This thing with Petrayus is. He had to go.

http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

You’re right, but even more:

I’ve been a reference for friends applying to the NSA, and the first thing was “Do they have anything to hide? A drinking / drugs problem?” (I’m paraphrasing heavily here; the language used was much more circumspect and delicate and lawyeriffic.) And this was first-level, in-the-door jobs.

The simple thing is we can’t have someone with something to hide like that in an agency for intelligence. The exposure to blackmail is too great.
- DrewInGeorgia
  
  I am extremely conflicted about the Petraeus situation because:
  
  On the one hand I strongly believe that there is no such thing as a little lie. This has nothing to do with morality or religion, but rather the fact that nobody can make good decisions based on crap intel. This is the hang em’ out to dry side.
  
  On the other hand, I firmly believe that any consensual activity of a sexual nature between adults should be solely the business of those involved. This is the none-o-my-business side.
  
  Ultimately I think Petrayus did the right thing in stepping down, there really wasn’t any alternative given his position.
  - WorriedfortheCountry
    
    The top spy should never be exposed to a ‘honey trap’ blackmail risk. He must have known this and he knows it can’t be tolerated. However, he only resigned after he was caught.
  - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
    
    Normally I’d agree with the consensual privacy branch of thought, except I very much see how it doesn’t apply here.
    
    Some privacy is something one agrees to give up when taking certain positions. Public service some, military, some more, intelligence even more than that.
    
    To contrast, sex scandals happen to private nobodies and corporate somebodies all the time. But if the president of Coca-Cola gets caught out like this, it matters not to Pepsico.
    
    And we are talking about an extramarital affair. This isn’t something like in the old movie “Advise and Consent” (spoiler alert) where a political sort is followed to a gay bar.
    
    What was scandalous 50 (?) years ago, when that movie was made, is a non-threat, accepted (or well on the way to being accepted) in 2012.

jimino

What with all this talk of takers and makers and who they vote for, the biggest takers by far are those that sent our citizens (of course, none of their loved ones) to fight and die for their “way of life” while refusing to pay for it at the time AND continuing to refuse to pay for the lifelong repercussions for those damaged in the process. They are the truly despicable takers in our society. What portion of them do you think voted Republican?

TomK_in_Boston

Amen. Furthermore financial manipulators who never made a product or strained their back doing a day’s work but suck the life out a company for their own profit are the next worst “takers”.
StilllHere

You must mean you and your permanent slacking.

asuka langley sohryu

Props to Karen for using “homogeneous” correctly. (Even in the NYT, you see “homogenous” for “homogeneous”.)
But Tom, Mitch McConnell is a “Democrat leader”? Shame on you!

Roy-in-Boise

Q: Grover Norquist … Who actually voted for him?

A: Not me!

TomK_in_Boston

Some on this forum have said that pols were signing the no-tax pledge on the behalf of their constituents. Well, sorry, this voter wants higher taxes. Please don’t do things on my behalf that I don’t want.
- StilllHere
  
  Feel free to send in an extra check anytime.

Gregg Smith

It’s still early but it now seems clear Obama knew about the Petraeus affair for quite some time. Petraeus was not playing ball regarding the administration’s line about the video and Benghazi.

Was the President holding the affair over his head to get the testimony he wanted in the upcoming hearings? Did Petraeus resign so he could testify freely? It will be interesting.

Gregg Smith

Will people be more interested in Benghazi now that sex under the desk is part of the story?

TomK_in_Boston

I’ve said it before, but this is very important. With the tools of the oligarchs still clinging to the house, the ONLY way to get a necessary tax increase at the top is to let the bush tax cuts expire. It is a unique opportunity and the President must not sell us out.

It’s pretty amazing to hear the righties bow down to the great god DEFICIT and then talk about lowering tax rates. Can anyone not see their real agenda?

Gregg Smith

I don’t understand the reason for the hike on the top rate. President Obama insists on “revenue” which is entirely appropriate but he means raising the top tax rate. How that equates to more revenue in this economy, I don’t know. If we assume the best case scenario raising the top rate would bring $80 billion/year. Yippee, we can run the government about 12 seconds on that. Boehner advocates eliminating some loopholes and deductions. That could bring in revenue in the $750 billion range. If GDP were humming at 4 to 5% we start getting to trillion(s). There’s your revenue.

Who thinks we can tax our way out of this mess? Who thinks raising the top rate stimulates the economy?
- TomK_in_Boston
  
  But you do understand lowering the top rate? I sure don’t get that.
  
  You’re following the standard script of belittling a rate increase for not doing everything, while the right advocates endless cuts which are even smaller. Romney didn’t say “Killing Big Bird will run the government for 20 microseconds, yippee!” What we need is a bit of everything, and with historically low rates at the top, an increase is one part.
  
  Here we go again: The 1% have about 20% of the about $14 trillion in total income. An additional 10% of that is $280 billion/yr. That is a lot, and it’s the sort of thing I’d like to see. I understand that the baby step of simply letting the bush tax cuts at the top expire won’t bring in that much. That’s why I’d like to go further, including having dividends and cap gains (of which I have a lot) taxes as ordinary income, and reviving the estate tax.
  
  You’re right that the real revenue comes from a strong economy. Why is it so hard to take the next step, basic multiplication, and realize that a strong economy with more typical tax rates brings in more revenue than a strong economy with ultra low rates?
  
  Regarding your final question: The “mess” is the STANDARD scenario for the aftermath of a major bubble collapse, the result of the policies you favor.
  
  Tax policy has to depend on the circumstances. When the wealthy are strapped and taxes at the top are high, raising the top rate would be bad. When the wealthy are richer than ever and their rates are at historic lows, like now, raising their rate will simply bring in more revenue, which I would think would be a big deal to those howling about the deficit, if I didn’t know their real agenda was to make their rich owners richer.
  - Gregg Smith
    
    Cutting spending sits spending. Cutting the top rate may or may not bring increased revenue. If the objectives revenue then why not close loophole and do whatever we can to stimulate the economy?
    
    You asked: “Why is it so hard to take the next step, basic multiplication, and realize that a strong economy with more typical tax rates brings in more revenue than a strong economy with ultra low rates?”
    
    I agree with that, well said. The key phase being, “the next step”. You are advocating it as the first step. We don’t have a strong economy.
    
    This mess is Obama’s, the bubble collapse is long gone.
    - TomK_in_Boston
      
      I understand the politics of saying the mess is Obama’s, but the evidence from other violent bubble collapses is that recovery takes more than 4 years.
      
      Cutting spending decreases economic activity and decreases revenue. It’s funny that the right argues that cutting rates increases revenue because of increased activity (despite the evidence) but denies that more spending can increase revenue by stimulating the economy. They are the same type of argument!
      
      Another funny thing is that the right suddenly acknowledges the good effects of government spending when military spending is on the table . Sorry, if that stimulates the economy, so does other spending that actually amounts to investment in the USA.
      
      I advocate raising rates because “loophole closing” etc is always so vague that IMO is it smoke for not raising revenue at all. I’m very suspicious of pols. When someone comes to me with angst about the deficit and proposes lowering rates my alarm bells go off. Also, I remember how well the economy worked for the middle class when rates were MUCH higher, and I think why not go back to what worked?
    - Gregg Smith
      
      When the tech bubble crashed it was devastating and that was followed by 9/11. The recovery was much quicker. Which bubble are you referring to? Which recovery has taken longer than this one?
      
      I don’t agree that cutting spending decreases economic activity. Keep in mind the government has no money. To spend more they must first remove it from the private sector. Tax cuts keep more money in the private sector. That’s the difference, they are not the same at all.
      
      The military is a different matter. That is a constitutional duty. I get your point but it’s apples and oranges in my view. But you mention investing in the USA. Our credit was downgraded when we raised the debt ceiling without cutting spending. Why would anyone invest in America. Another downgrade looms.
      
      When the rates were higher there were more loopholes. Not only that but revenue as a percentage of GDP was higher on average during the Bush years than Eisenhower’s.

partisanship_is_naive

beat big money?! did he see the campaign costs? Big money was the biggest driver in this and the last election.

Derick_Mickles

It may be advantageous for Republicans to give up all seats to the Democrats. Let our entire government become a one party system. Of course human nature being what it is, they will soon become so oppressive that the majority will begin to resent them. Let all of that fester and then at the right moment ride in with a second option, and bam, you’ve got your Political Revolution in our (conservatives) favor.

In military terms this is called a Salient. You fall back, letting your enemy move deep into your territory, gaining confidence and all that goes with over-confidence. Then when they have over extended themselves, you rush in from three sides and annihilate them.

The best path to victory against the Liberals may be to lay down and let them win without even fielding candidates, or fielding candidates that have no hope of winning. Several Election Cycles later they will be the most hated group in the nation, and average citizens will clamor for ANYTHING besides them.

Lets take the fall Republicans. Lets throw the fight, in order to win the title.

sickofthechit

Please do that, but my guess is is that the Repugnicans in Congress are too selfish to take one for the team, just as they were too selfish to give Obama’s Agenda any chance of succeeding for fear it might be a success and hence the undoing of their power.
- Derick_Mickles
  
  I highly doubt it would be a success, but what you’re missing is that over a long enough timeline Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Patience is a virtue. You do realize that nothing lasts forever, and since your chosen side is up, there is nowhere to go but down for them. That’s where we’ll be waiting for ya.

ExcellentNews

Yes, we need a STRONG ECONOMY. The experience of the last 12 years shows that you cannot achieve that with deregulation and trickle-down (despite the rhetoric on Pox, in fact Obama continued Bush’ economic policies).

We cannot have a strong economy when those who export American jobs or live off con jobs on the middle class (such as lenders of all stripes) pay next to nothing in taxes. Romney was a great example of such “success”, “built” on the back of working Americans. Good thing we voted him down.

Those who profited from the destruction of the American middle class DESERVE to pay for its rebuilding. They sit on over 10 TRILLION stashed in offshore accounts and hedge funds. The only penny America has seen from this money is for political ads with a single goal – shelter ill-deserved gains from income and inheritance taxes.

We need COMPREHENSIVE tax reform that should reflect simple justice. Reward those who contribute. Do not reward those who extract. We are very FAR from that status today. Working people – rich or poor – bear the lion share of the load. Non-working speculators, outsources, and financiers pay almost nothing. No wonder the economy has been going down the drain, and the middle class has been gutted. Policies have consequences – and we better make sure that our President-Elect is focused on policies that are JUST and EFFECTIVE.

TomK_in_Boston

Dam right. It’s shocking that a con man like romney, who has done no real work in his life, can pass himself off as a “maker”, and as a candidate for POTUS. All he ever did was shuffle funds around till he owned a company, and then direct the funds from the company to his own accounts. Like Woody Guthrie said, some men rob you with a six gun, some use a fountain pen.
- WorriedfortheCountry
  
  No real work? You can stop the BS now. The election is over.
  - jimino
    
    That day he rode around on the back his wife’s jet ski he made about $50,000,as he does every day, even if he stays in bed. Now that’s tough work but someone has to do it.
jimino

Because almost all the gains from our economy’s growth over the last 3 decades has gone to a tiny portion of the population, THAT is where taxes have to be targeted. Why is that so hard to understand?

TomK_in_Boston

Gregg, I’m talking about a SYSTEMIC BANKING crisis. The investment banks were not going under and people were not worrying about their accounts in 2000. The bush crash was the closest thing to 1929. Looks like the bottom is typically in year 3.

BTW, the only times the income of the 1% hit 23% were 1928 and 2007. Inequality is a great warning of a coming banking crash.

Don’t have time for a detailed response to the rest, but I repeat, after 30 years of tax cutting and redistribution of wealth and income to the top, raising top rates will not harm economic activity and will increase revenue. If you’ve been walking into the woods for 30 years and don’t like the results, common sense is to start walking out. With the house in the hands of the agents of the plutocrats, the only chance to raise the top rates is to let the cuts expire. It may be a bit early given the weakness of the economy, as you say, but if we wait it won’t happen at all.http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/full-width/images/2012/10/blogs/free-exchange/reinhart_rogoff_us_gdp.png

Gregg Smith

This is not the great depression. Which crisis got a $700 Billion TARP bailout and a $814 billion “stimulus”? The economy did rebound early on but retanked. This should all be over by now.
- WorriedfortheCountry
  
  You are dead right. The recession officially ended in June 2009. $6T in deficit spending and little to show for it. It is a myth that financial recessions are somehow special.
  
  Also, two external events propped up the economy. The first is the boom in natural gas supplies. Even though it had nothing to do with Obama, it helped manufacturing return and took some of the sting out of the downturn and the Obama war on coal.
  
  The second is the Federal Reserve. With the Fed action to prop up the economy unemployment was probably be at least a point higher. The Feds action also propped up the stock market — for now.
  - sickofthechit
    
    It doesn’t help your argument to distort or misstate figures. We have a $16 trillion deficit. $11 tr is from Repubs, and at most $5tr is from Dems. Lucky us we have a Dem Pres again.
    - StilllHere
      
      It doesn’t help that you distort the figures and that you don’t know the difference between deficits and debt.
- sickofthechit
  
  I guess it doesn’t help your argument to point out that the $814 billion in stimulus was actually 1/3 aid to states (whose budgets were hemoraging), 1/3 to continue the Temporary Bush Tax Cuts, and 1/3 to stimulus. Maybe in the light of reality the “stimulus” is not really as large and daunting as you lead yourself to believe. charles a. bowsher
  - Gregg Smith
    
    A third for tax cuts? That’s Twilight Zone stuff.
    - jimino
      
      $218 million in tax cuts, which is what was in the bill, is a little less than one third but your comment indicates you are the one operating outside of reality.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      No, A tax credit is not a tax cut. Money is exchanged with a tax credit but not a tax cut.

Derick_Mickles

REPOSTED from another discussion: (But I feel it’s also of value to this one)”The number one goal of all Governments these days is to collect tax revenue. Conservatives, please, stop working! These Liberals are gloating at destroying the nation with this administration. They say we’re “outdated.” Teach them a lesson they’ll never forget. Starve the beast. STOP WORKING!
Yes, you will be poor, but that was going to happen anyway. Use the financial power that you possess right now. Scorched Earth. Leave nothing of value standing. Get on welfare or become an Illegal (but stay here flipping the bird at the government and demanding your rights) NOW! See how funny they think that is!”

jimino

The next person who refuses to make more money because an additional 3% of a portion of it will be paid in taxes will be the the first one EVER. Of course that doesn’t account for deluded fools, so you may be able to recruit a few to your cause.
- Derick_Mickles
  
  It’s more than 3% that’s for sure, and it’s just the tip of the iceburg. The point here is to slash and burn so that there is nothing to steal. It would send a message. “Back off, or we’ll proverbially torch the entire thing.” We have the power right now to do it.
  - jimino
    
    Well, it would be the logical extension of your belief: I want all the benefit of government but refuse to pay my fair share for it.
    
    As for your suggestion that “conservatives” stop working (hey, just like John Galt!), it’s a book you fool. A work of fiction written by a mentally unstable megalomaniac.

Gregg Smith

Can anyone say FEMA has performed better now than during Katrina? It’s heartbreaking. They are closing down FEMA hurricane assistance centers “due to weather”. Unbelievable. No one cares because Obama is Democrat. Notice liberals, as bad as this tragedy is conservatives are not claiming Obama’s horrific performance is because he hates whites. The inverse claim was certainly made by Dems about Bush during Katrina.

Derick_Mickles

One Democrat I like is Robert Reich. The post I will link below is on the money in my opinion, but it’s too little too late. The powers that be played with fire, but didn’t seem to know it. They mistook our silence for compliance.

http://robertreich.org/post/35070262414
JGC

That is just silly.
- Derick_Mickles
  
  “I don’t deserve this!” “Deserve’s got nothing to do with it.” BOOM!
- Gregg Smith
  
  I realize we don’t have a media frenzy but there is real suffering and real incompetence going on. It’s awful.

hypocracy1

HAHAHAHAHA

/Melt

Derick_Mickles

)))))))))))))))))))))))) 49.1, more than enough.
Derick_Mickles

Remember: always a 3% margin of error, and this 49.1 constitutes over 80% of the tax payers, and 90% of the armed. “Keep Comin’ Mav!”

http://youtu.be/fC976fuQm4E

hypocracy1

Move to that Moon Base!

(R) 2024!

Derick_Mickles

Smell blood in the water do ya? Shark? Excellent! Allow me to introduce myself: I’m a deep sea fisherman. Try your luck. Thank you for showing yourself to me.

Gregg Smith

The more I learn about Benghazi the sicker I feel and Obama went to bed. The Petraeus testimony will be devastating. Hiilary will not take the fall and is free to cover her ass now that the election is over. She can and will.

hypocracy1

MOON BASE
Derick_Mickles

We’ve had to wait for this moment Mr. Smith. Hold steady. This is going to be hard, but we will soon be finally released from our yoke. These people have no idea. They set the precedent of not having to follow the law. It’s a God Send. We are released from our oath. No one in living memory remembers what that means.

http://youtu.be/-c2OM7HEfrs
- Gregg Smith
  
  Do people care anymore?
  - Derick_Mickles
    
    It’s not like there’s anywhere left to pull back to Mr. Smith. This is it. So, yes, people still care. They just haven’t suffered enough yet, but that will change.
Derick_Mickles

De oppresso liber
Mike_Card

I know you’ve been beating this drum for a while, but I’m still wondering: to what end? Yes, everyone thinks the result was calamitous. Surely there aren’t serious people who believe malicious intent on the part of the administration beyond clamping down on leaks till an investigation can reveal facts. Every administration does this, and it is to be expected, or at least ought to be.

How can we, in this discussion forum, have a productive conversation about this? It’s all fog-sculpting until people with substantive knowledge can present conclusions for us to quibble about.
- Gregg Smith
  
  Your last sentence rings true. I guess the above post was more of a bubbling over from all the breaking news. It really didn’t have an end as not much gets settled around here anyway.
  
  I sincerely believe it’s possible that politics trumped National security. It also looks like we were purposely lied to about the video. I fear the Arab Spring is spiraling out of control and we’re being told the war on terror is over.
  
  There are so many layers to this it’s crazy and it keeps coming. The hearings are next week and I hope Obama pushes hard for the truth.
  - Mike_Card
    
    Thanks, Gregg. I’m pretty much agreeing with you, with that one minor caveat; as a 2-time voter for Nixon, I’m loathe to denigrate anyone who questions official assertions of “national security considerations.”
    - Gregg Smith
      
      We lived in Miami when I was a kid. I think I was 8 when my folks went to Nixon’s Convention.
    - Mike_Card
      
      Old memories. My betrothed served as a page at that convention.
- hennorama
  
  “fog-sculpting” Nice turn of phrase, that. Be warned – I intent to shamelessly steal it and use it without attribution.
  
  The simple fact of the exposure of a CIA operations center in the Benghazi attack makes it virtually certain we will never know the complete truth of these terrible events.
  
  No doubt minor members of Congress will try to use the hearings to enhance their standing, and no doubt Fox News will continue to run the same smoky, fiery videos over and over and over in an effort to hold their audience’s attention.
  
  In the end, the most important thing that will change will be an enhancement of security at U.S. Embassies and Consulates, using more reliable U.S. personnel and fewer local forces.
  - Mike_Card
    
    We can hope that better solutions for protecting embassies and consulates will be forthcoming, yet I despair of any sort of agreement among our clown busload of co-conspirators in the US Congress. IMO, being a member of congress is just far too lucrative to justify altruistic actions such as–oh, say–protecting US government servants.
    
    I agree further: we should expect right-wing talk radio and Faux Noise indignation; no-cost media time being much harder to find in this post-electoral, holiday-shopping season.
    
    “Fog-sculpting?” I wish I could claim authorship, but I’ve forgotten my own purloined source. Use it in good health!
  - Gregg Smith
    
    You’re probably right, security denied people died and the administration lied for two weeks. The President said at the debate he called it a terrorist attack right away and Candy Crowley jumped in to confirm it… except he didn’t. So 60 minutes waited a couple of months to release the rest of their interview where Obama refused to called it a terrorist attack. A complicit press, no biggee. The FBI investigated the CIA for weeks and doesn’t inform the President, it happens everyday. Bin Laden is dead, Al Qaida is no longer an issue, all is well in the Middle East. It’s much ado over nothing. No doubt it’s all just something trumped up by Fox… or racism.

http://twitter.com/seylulleyl Ahmad Alhassan

The Presidential Election went well. The Two-Party System, like it or not, will survive for quite some time. The concession speech and the expressions of good will from both sides were traditional but yet comforting and even heart-warming. The system will survive but it is evolvimng. There are disturbing trends.
http://theoriginalamed.blogspot.com/2012/11/election-by-ballot-not-bullet.html

hennorama

Here’s to all Veterans, current military servicemembers, their families and loved ones, and to all those who made the ultimate sacrifice in service to our great country. We owe you all a debt that can never be repaid in full.

DrewInGeorgia

Hear, hear! Happy Veteran’s Day to our Heroes!

hennorama

The reality that Republicans need to deal with is - they were unable to defeat an obviously vulnerable President. The opportunity was there, but Republicans in general and Romney in particular, simply frittered it away.

There were a great number of reasons for this, beginning with the Republicans’ self-destruction. The wide-open field of weak candidates was entertaining, but horrible for the party. The primaries and the endless “debates” became circular firing squads, exposing the true weaknesses of each candidate, one after another.

There’s no way there will be a repeat of this divine comedy next time. The primary debates seemed to never end. Mr. Romney participated in 20-plus “debates,” and in order to emerge as the final candidate, he had to pretend to be more and more “severely conservative.” This circumstance, combined with his “No Apology” book, meant he couldn’t turn back to the middle until it was far too late.

Republican primary voters showed no great love for Mr. Romney, pushing one weak candidate after another to the lead in the polls – first Perry, then Cain, Gingrich and Santorum, until Romney’s vast money and organizational advantages finally won out.

Source:http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/republican_presidential_nomination-1452.html

This long primary season made Mr. Romney spend an enormous amount of his money, leaving him in the vulnerable position of being unable to respond well to the Obama campaign’s relentless portrayal of Romney as an out-of-touch, uncaring, Wall Street-loving, job outsourcing plutocrat who favored only the wealthy. Romney was unable to define himself to the general electorate during the post-primary, pre-convention period, and the Obama campaign was only to happy to fill in the blanks. This refuted and neutralized Romney’s main argument that he was the best guy to fix the economy due to his business acumen.

The list of the ways Romney and his campaign shot themselves in the foot is almost endless:

The London Olympics security “diss” and the trip to Israel.

The secretive tax returns. Then when the issue seemed to be dying, Romney volunteers, out of the blue, “I never paid less than 13%.” Then Romney needed his accountants to reverse-engineer his 2011 Fed. return to comply with that remark.

The complete lack of detail about his tax proposals.

The convention debacle, with no mention of the troops in Romney’s speech, and Clint Eastwood’s embarrassing ramble, which became the most memorable moment.

The “47%” remarks.

The exploitation of the deaths of Americans in Libya starting with his statement on 9/11.

I could go on, but time and space are limited.

In the end, voters saw through Mr. Romney’s pretense, and put him out of his misery. When Mr. Romney conceded, he looked both shell-shocked and greatly relieved. He’s now free to return to what he really is – a moderate Chamber of Commerce Republican.

For an analysis of how Romney blew his chance:http://www.nationaljournal.com/magazine/mitt-romney-had-every-chance-to-win-but-he-blew-it-20121108?mrefid=mostViewed

http://twitter.com/willowstumps WillowStumps

The problem was that nobody knew what ”Romney really is.” We certainly didn’t in Massachusetts. Romney is a salesman and actor. To be a good salesman you take on the values and personality of the customer and then poke them in a direction to serve your purpose. You’re not committed to any ”value” just to making the sale. Actors can play any part, just hand them the script and good ones can deliver the words written by another convincingly. (He was probably weaker on the acting.) But a “moderate Chamber of Commerce Republican?” No. The man stands for nothing other than making the sale and he’s been doing that now for so long and so relentlessly that I would worry for his mental health now that it’s done. Who am I? For what do I actually stand? On abortion, such an emotional issue, he flipped and flopped according to the needs of the moment. I don’t know if Romney knows how he feels on it. Probably against it because that was his most recent role. Or, and this is probably right, such questions are of no interest to him. He’s probably thinking, what badge of success can I go after now?
- hennorama
  
  Thank you for your response. I agree with your general premise that Mr. Romney’s true nature was almost impossible to discern, as his views seemed to depend on the audience he was addressing at any particular moment. While we do expect some of this “adaptability” from politicians, Mr. Romney’s changes were breathtaking both in their frequency and their variety.
  
  As I said, I view him as a moderate Chamber of Commerce Republican, but given that that political species is widely and roundly rejected in Republican circles, Mr. Romney had to pretend to be someone he is not. This was his ultimate undoing, IMO, but his loss now allows him to revert to his true nature.
  
  It will be interesting to see what he does next, and if he works toward some repartation of the political divisions currently extant.
JGC

“GOP Shaken” – not stirred? Sorry, our family just went to see the new James Bond movie, Skyfall. BTW, thanks for the links you provide.
- hennorama
  
  Thanks for the reply. I hope you enjoyed the film. The reviews have certainly been positive, and the box office results have been impressive. I guess James is in fine fettle at 50.
  
  You’re welcome for the links, of course. My use of them is both as evidence to support positions, and to share the info I come across.
  
  Thanks again for the tip of the hat.

DrewInGeorgia

Anyone else disgusted with the latest attempt to keep Tesla Motors down? This a prime example of what is wrong with Corporate America, Free Market my behind.

The very same people who profess to be Free Market proponents are the first ones scrambling for any unfair advantage they can get when their business model is threatened.

JGC

I never really thought about the automobile dealership arrangement before. If Apple can sell their iPads and Macs in a store in a mall, why can’t Tesla do the same thing with their products?
- DrewInGeorgia
  
  In a Free Market Economy they could. Elon Musk is one of my heroes, he is a testament to American Innovation. The obstructionist tactics employed by the oil, battery, and auto industries to prevent him from helping make the world a better place are a clear demonstration of everything that is wrong with our current ideas of a Free Market.
  - JGC
    
    I also have a lot of faith in Elon Musk; instead of playing the lottery with 10 bucks here and there, I have bought a few shares in Tesla, and I’ll see where that takes me. Maybe in a decade or two, I’ll even be able to afford to buy a Tesla! Maybe I’ll even be making posts in favor of the investor class, from my little beachfront condo in the Cayman Islands…
Mike_Card

A lot of entertainment value, if it weren’t so pathetic. Let’s get Eddie Munster Ryan and Ayn Rand Paul in on this discussion.
- Derick_Mickles
  
  Atta Boy! More like that. You’re my favorite one so far Mr. Card.
  - Mike_Card
    
    I’ve never heard of you. But when it occurs to me that I need your encouragement, I’ll scrape it off the bottom of my shoe.
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      Brilliant! I can play you like a fiddle.

Derick_Mickles

I’d like to ask the Liberal participants of this discussion a favor. If you don’t mind, could you please up your level of vitriol and haughty insults towards the Conservative people of the United States please? Really chew them up. I need to point them to this area of the web so that you enrage them, and pump them up so that that rage can be harnessed into a incredibly motivated group. Thank you for your help.

astrom1970

Why are the power lines in this country still above ground in the XXI century? Anyone?

Yar

Actually that is where they should be. Underground power has much greater loss. Lower voltage in subdivisions works pretty well, and short distance high population centers like in Manhattan the cost benefit can work out, but for less dense populations the cost of installation and the AC inductive losses are just too high. Trees simply should not be in falling distance of transmission lines. This is the difficult position electric companies must negotiate.

A better solution is for close generation; where clean power plants are located near their customers. Low grade heat can be sold along with the electricity. Natural gas can generate power just down the block. Thermal energy can be used for both heating and cooling. Although I don’t think this will provide a long term solution and I hate the idea of building power plants on the basis of energy spot markets. I expect natural gas to get much more expensive once our electric grid invests in new power plants based on it. If there were simple solutions they would have already been implemented.

JGC

There is a commenter in our midst- no names mentioned, and I won’t flag because of free speech issues, which I know many here hold dear, even more so than me- but this commenter is an agent provocateur, perhaps attracted by the “Troll” segment on Tuesday, much as a moth to the light or a fly to the whatever. Reply back to this entity at your own risk; a fool’s errand to be sure. And if it is not the action of a provocateur, then I am even more worried that this person is unstable, and probably needs to get medical assistance as soon as possible. The delusional rantings are getting more intense by the day…Especially in light of the sentencing this week of the mentally besieged person who shot, killed and harmed people at a Meet Your Congresswoman event not so long ago, you may need to seek medical attention for your own good and that of your family. There is humor, there is parody, and then there is this stuff. Some are irritated about you, and some others are really worried about you and where this will lead you. I will answer no one about this post. And please do not even hit the “like” button, if you think you are inclined to agree.

JGC

General Petraeus should have known better than to let Paula Broadwell “embed” in Afghanistan.

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