Election Eve

Mike_Card

What possible information could be added by this collection of 2 journalists and 2 political flacks? This 51 minute segment would be of more benefit to the DONORS to WBUR by playing a good recording of a good symphonic performance.

http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

Wrong program. You’re thinking of Performance Today, available on many stations and on-line. Enjoy.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Joshua-Hendrickson/1652586055 Joshua Hendrickson

So tired of polls. Unless we are actually holding a nationwide election, polls of random citizens don’t mean anything at all. Much rather hear analysis of what Romney or Obama would actually do in the next four years–there’s plenty to say about that, although scarcely anyone discusses it.

Robert Berube

The whole election hinges on one state, Ohio. The electoral college system does great injustice to democracy.

donniethebrasco

I would vote 50 more times if I knew that it counted in Massachusetts. If one state (Illinois) could have more people vote than population, it would be easier to effect the overall election.

Additionally, candidates would never campaign in states like Iowa or New Hampshire. Only NYC, LA, Chicago, Miami, etc would get campaign ads.

Sometimes the swing state is PA, or OH, or FL, or someday it might be NY or CA or none.

The president is the only office that is not from a single state. The president used to be chosen by state legislatures. Now it is chosen by states.

To change the election of the president to popular vote would mistakenly move away from our nations basis as a confederacy of states. Additionally, it would permanently change the electoral process to permanently focus on major media markets. At least, even though today all eyes are on OH and FL, it won’t permanently change the process to be the same every year. Additionally, it will reduce the impact of potential voter fraud in one state, in one county, in one Chicago.

Wm_James_from_Missouri

Plebiscite : a vote by which the people of an entire country or district express an opinion for or against a proposal especially on a choice of government or ruler

_Question: is this one of those moments where you can fool all of the people some of the time ? I am beginning to think that the man should have said, ‘ we can fool all of ourselves all of the time’ !

AC

looking forward to Wednesday….

Gregg Smith

Me too.
MrNutso

For the start of campaign 2016? It will be interesting to see who the talking heads being to speculate about.
- AC
  
  o god.
- JGC
  
  Hillary Clinton 2016!

Jasoturner

One part of me wants to comment that it is irrelevant what a group of flacks have to say about tomorrow’s election. On the other hand, political races are so bereft of substance that may voters probably *do* vote based on the polling numbers, which seems to be all that the mainstream media can bring itself to report on. Perhaps Tom can turn this on it’s head and get these guys to explain why we are more interested in poll numbers and less interested in the actual policy proposals of the candidates. Admittedly, Mitt’s proposals appear to be secret, but none the less…

NewtonWhale

The Party of Lincoln became the party of Lincoln’s assassins

This actually appeared in Politico, in 2012:

“If President Barack Obama wins, he will be the popular choice of Hispanics, African-Americans, single women and highly educated urban whites. That’s what the polling has consistently shown in the final days of the campaign. It looks more likely than not that he will lose independents, and it’s possible he will get a lower percentage of white voters than George W. Bush got of Hispanic voters in 2000.

A broad mandate this is not.”

So Obama’s coalition is broader, but it doesn’t extend to a majority of Real Americans, who are white, so it doesn’t count. Right.

Shorter Politico: Democratic states should get 3/5ths representation in the Electoral College.

This has been the foundation of Republican presidential politics for more than four decades, since Richard Nixon courted and won the votes of Southerners who’d turned against the Democratic Party because of integration and civil rights.

The Party of Lincoln became the party of Lincoln’s assassins, leveraging white anger into a regional advantage and eventually a regional monopoly.

It’s all very basic and old news, but it’s still considered rude to say so, even as Republican strategists talk about winning the white voters and only the white voters.

http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2012/11/white-man-date#.UJawbUNc9tw.twitter

Gregg Smith

That’s sick.
- Steve__T
  
  But true, sad to say.
  - NewtonWhale
    
    If it were not for the South, and racism, this election would not be close:
    
    ObamaRomneyMarginEast5248O+4Midwest5248O+4South3961R+22West5347O+6
    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/10/17/1145957/-About-that-Gallup-poll
    - Steve__T
      
      Yes my Grandmother was a wealth of information about racism in the south, born in Texas in 1898 to black farm workers. Trust me I know.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      It’s 2012 not 1898.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      So all those white people who elected Obama are now racist? Gotcha’.
Don_B1

Read Michael Smerconish in the Philadelphia Inquirer on Sunday:

http://www.philly.com/philly/columnists/michael_smerconish/20121104_The_Pulse__The_smearing_of_a_president__From_start__unrelenting__unfair.html

or as republished in HuffPost:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-smerconish/obama-substance-not-smear_b_2071600.html

Many, or most of, the comments in the Inquirer validate his argument; less so in the Huffington Post.

margbi

The truest thing you can say about Mitt Romney is that he really, REALLY, wants to be president.

Yar

I am not even sure that is true, he wants to win this election, that is for sure. He is like a dog chasing a car, what he does if the car stops is a different issue. �
I think he is motivated to do what his father couldn’t. We could have a full hour on the psychology of Mitt Romney. �
Say anything, flip flop, Romney is a product of the humiliation George Romney got in 1964 at the republican national convention. �
This can be dangerous, for example George W Bush invasion of Iraq looks as if it was triggered by his father’s handling of the 1991 war in Kuwait. The presidency should not be about family honor or to an attempt to rewrite history.
MrNutso

A more accurate description is that Mitt Romney really, really wants to be elected President. I question how much he really wants to do the job.
brettearle

No, he truly wants to be a CEO….in the White House.
- brettearle
  
  [As if being a CEO in the White House would make him a good president. Bull.]

Yar

How does the America degauss political polarization?
A small group in my county is using tea party tactics to close our local library system.�
http://www.pulaskipubliclibrary.org/petition/
https://www.facebook.com/savepulaskilibrary

A story on This American life said that the money behind republican politics has attacked moderate republican candidates with much more force than moderate democratic candidates. Is this true and please discuss how this has increased the polarization of the electorate?

The money-ball economics of politics creates close elections. Next election cycle I recommend one change to our electoral college system. When a state has less than 1 percent of separation between the top two candidates the state would split the electoral college vote from that state. I think this would be fair and would change the economics of elections to win by more than just a few votes.
Please vote. Everyone should vote! It may even save your library.
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/478/red-state-blue-state

AC

after libraries will be schools, i can feel it coming…well, only for HS aged kids, i don’t think you can ask elementary/middle schoolers to have the self-discipliine to learn online….
- AC
  
  yet
- DrewInGeorgia
  
  You’re assuming there is a desire to actually educate High School students and your position regarding elementary and middle school children is extremely optimistic. We seem to have decided that we don’t care if our children learn how to think so long as we make sure they learn what to think.
AC

hey, don’t complain, they’re helping to get rid of more jobs so they can complain about the state of the economy and how there are no jobs�
- keltcrusader
  
  so true AC. They seem to act like public employees don’t have families to support just like private sector workers do. Public & Private sector employees are no different – unemployment affects them both just as harshly and add to the rates.
- ttajtt
  
  this does shows why we need them. AKA drumming up businesss’. round file scuttle butt talk.
  - AC
    
    at first i thought you were an ESL person, but now i begin to wonder.
    in anycase, it is common now to include a wink at the end of a comment to indicate sarcasm –
MrNutso

During the GOP convention, NPR interviewed a Tampa area tea party group that wanted to cut local spending including subsidies for mass transit. Naturally those behind this action did not need to rely on mass transit for their transportation needs.
- Yar
  
  Our largest city (pop 11,000) only ended prohibition, earlier this year. The county is still dry. This may have upset the black market economics. ( Baptists and bootleggers make strange bedfellows.)Anyway, we have a theocracy; at the library meeting our current county judge bragged how his court helped a church to get a lower interest rate on their education center. Church and state is all mixed up here. We were the county that put the ten commandments on the court house wall and taxpayers are still paying for a lost supreme court case. Citizens are madder at the ACLU than the foolish actions of county officials. Political polarization is right and far right. But this library fight may actually tip the balance toward the center. A flaw in state law makes it possible for a small group to close the library when too few people vote. The petition is based on the number of voters in the last general election.

donniethebrasco

I love the answer Obama gave to the question, “President Obama, are you concerned if our economy creates too many wealthy people, then Democrats will lose more elections?”

Obama’s response, “Have you seen my policies? We are going to make more poor people so that more Democrats will be elected.”

brettearle

So what’s wrong with that?

If you actually believe that the President’s comments make him a communist or a socialist, then you do not know the first thing about political science.
anamaria23

Could you please give reference to that comment. I am very much interested.
- hennorama
  
  There is no reference/source. It’s just more donnienonniesense.
NewtonWhale

Seriously, you’re making up quotes that Obama never said so you can attack him?

The President’s critics have created a Bizarro universe version of Obama in which they attack him for being a socialist Kenyan Muslim when all he’s done is propose things they used to support, like individual mandates and economic stimulus.
J__o__h__n

Was that interview with Clint Eastwood’s chair?

RolloMartins

According to the news media this morning the election is too close to call. According to Nate Silver the election is already pretty much over (Obama wins easily). Going to love finding out who was right.

brettearle

Silver keeps his mouth shut–unless he thinks he knows what he’s talking about.

Care to point out when he’s been wrong?
- Ray in VT
  
  I read the piece on his blog last week about the changing demographics and voting patterns in Pennsylvania over the past 20-30 years, and I thought that it was quite interesting.
  - Gregg Smith
    
    Supposedly Romney has a great chance in PA but I don’t believe it.
  - WorriedfortheCountry
    
    I read a piece over the weekend that PA was trending red over the last several election cycles. However, in Presidential elections Philly has been overachieving their turnout despite decline population but enough to offset the R growth in the rest of the state. The key question for PA is there any room for Philly to grow for the Ds?
    - Ray in VT
      
      Here’s the Silver piece:
      
      http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/29/in-pennsylvania-the-democratic-lean-is-slight-but-durable/#more-36634
      
      He argues that a pretty sizable swath of the entire eastern part of the state is (more) reliably blue and the western areas are more red than they were in the 1980s.
    - WorriedfortheCountry
      
      Thanks for the link.
      
      It is interesting that Axelrod is sending Bubba to PA today for 4 events.
      
      From what I hear the key is flipping the Philly suburbs.
    - Ray in VT
      
      That would certainly seem to indicate that the Obama campaign is looking to shore up support there last minute, so it may be closer there than it looked a few weeks ago.
- WorriedfortheCountry
  
  He said at the end of 2011 that there was an 80% chance that Derek Jeter was washed up.
  
  Jeter led MLB in hit sin 2012.
  
  There are many other examples.
  
  This doesn’t mean Silver’s methodology is right or wrong. If the polls aren’t accurately measuring the turnout then Silver’s work is simply Garbage In == Garbage Out.
  
  It is clear that the state polls are bimodal this year and since Nate simply averages the polls he can’t be correct — unless the ultimate result turns out in the middle.
  - brettearle
    
    “There are many other examples”
    
    WHAT ARE THEY?
    
    Using Baseball!, to try to prove your point, only makes your argument weaker.
    
    Can’t believe you used Jeter as an example of Silver’s inaccuracy.
    
    Sabernetics or no, that’s ridiculous.
    - WorriedfortheCountry
      
      Do you know how Silver selects his poll weighting? He always seems to give high weightings to polls that favor Obama (like PPP) that appear to have sketchy internals.
      
      Since the polls are bimodal, maybe he is self selecting the polls he desires. I’m just curious about his algorithm.
      
      For instance, PPP just had a poll in PA with O +6 but the poll also had turnout D+10 and yet 2008 was D+7 and 2010 was D+2.
    - brettearle
      
      I’ll look at what you say….

DrewInGeorgia

Here comes the Florida Nightmare again, I am so sick of this garbage every election cycle. At what point are we going to do something in this country about the Electoral Collage? Florida can get the hell out of the Union as far as I’m concerned and it can take Texas with it.

brettearle

You think, theoretically, that if greater than half the population in the country were heavily Democratic, let’s say–and these voters lived primarily in Texas, California and New York–that the other states shouldn’t have an opportunity to have their votes reflected or represented?
- DrewInGeorgia
  
  I think that our elections should be Democratic. One Citizen equals One Vote, period.
  It seems insane to me to continue having these manufactured dead heats that will eventually lead to Civil War if nothing changes. Yeah, I know, Civil War is crazy talk right? Don’t bet the farm on it.
  - brettearle
    
    Explain “manufactured dead heats.”
    
    Voting infractions aside [on both sides], the country is clearly divided politically.
    
    Civil War is NOT crazy talk. I’m there with you.
    
    HOWEVER, a lot more would have to happen–before the Right Wing starts such a conflict:
    
    Another 9/11 and a near-economic collapse, worse than 2007.
    - DrewInGeorgia
      
      Manufactured dead heats: The division of the general population through use of equally disparate (and dispersed) media outlets and polling to further economic or political gain.
      
      You don’t think it’s odd that we are in perpetual stalemates until after an election is actually decided?
    - brettearle
      
      I think that you are looking at events, too much, as if they are orchestrated and contrived.
      
      The country is divided, regardless of who’s loading things, for or against.
      
      Sure, there’s some `plotting’–but I don’t believe that ulterior motives are determining destiny.
    - DrewInGeorgia
      
      Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying there is one person sitting around in the shadows laughing maniacally while moving the pawns about the board. What I am saying is that fear and division are very powerful and profitable motivators, Capitalism carries a lot of unintended consequences.
- DrewInGeorgia
  
  I understand your concern and desire to avoid Tyranny of The Majority. I fear, however, that what we have now is effectively a Tyranny of The Minority.

Gregg Smith

President Obama says he still has some “fight left” in him. He says voting is the “best revenge”. That’s mighty uniting.

brettearle

What’s the matter, Mr. Smith?

`Fraid that last week’s events put the President over the top?

Get used to it….
- Gregg Smith
  
  What happened last week to help Obama?
  - anamaria23
    
    Last week President Obama without having to go through an obstructionist Congress was able to act quickly and decisivley in a gravely dangerous storm. I shudder to think the consequences if he had to get approval from the House.
    No, all is not near well. No, I do not think he was motivated by political concerns.
    There are leaders, including Gov Christie, who can and do act solely on behalf of the people.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      The military arrived today, finally.
http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

“Don’t boo (Romney’s name). Vote. Voting is the best revenge.”

Wow. So scary.
- WorriedfortheCountry
  
  Revenge for what?
  - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
    
    Crawl back up your Foxhole, bub.

Gregg Smith

There are several heavyweights predicting a landslide for Romney. I am cautiously optimistic.

brettearle

There are only 2 major poll operations that predict Romney.

ALL of the others predict Obama–or else say that it’s too close to call.
- Gregg Smith
  
  Karl Rove, Dick Morris, George Will, Michael Barone, Larry Kudlow, Joe Scarborough and Vegas odds maker Wayne Allen Root are all predicting a landslide.
  - brettearle
    
    You just displayed, once again, your lack of CREDIBILITY.
    
    Most professional POLL agencies will predict, in any election–according to their results.
    
    EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL, YOU MENTIONED ABOVE, IS NOTORIOUSLY BIASED FOR THE GOP.
    
    In order to prevent your credibility, slipping, even more, if I were you I would either apologize to “On Point” Nation or delete the comment above.
    
    At best, it is a throw-away entry.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      Why did many of the same (if not all) predict Obama’s win in 2008? Shouldn’t that increase their credibility?
    - brettearle
      
      I take your point.
      
      [Although I'd have to check your statement for accuracy.]
      
      But I still believe that these predictions are coming out of biased Talking Heads, who are desperate to get a GOP candidate in the White House.
  - hennorama
    
    Consider the sources. Let’s just say these people are ALL politically biased. Some are less than trustworthy and/or less than reliable.
    Rove: Republican “Bush’s brain”.
    
    Morris: scandalous sleazeball political “gun for hire.”
    
    Will: Conservative pundit.
    
    Barone: Conservative pundit who said (as a joke, according only to him) journalists trashed Sarah Palin because “she did not abort her Down syndrome baby.”
    
    Kudlow: former Democrat turned Conservative “supply side” economist who denied U.S. would go into recession in 2007 or was in recession in mid-2008.
    
    Scarborough: Republican who resigned 5 months into his 4th Congressional term “to spend time with his children.”
    
    Root: Republican/Libertarian Vegas oddsmaker who is spokesman, boardmember, and Senior Economic Adviser to Wealth Masters International (“WMI”), a company that Norway banned as a pyramid scheme.
    
    Since 2008, he has claimed, according to MediaMatters.org, “.. that he never met Obama when they were students at Columbia and that no one Root knew ‘at Columbia ever met him, ever heard of him, or ever saw him.’ FactCheck.org has pointed out that it’s “absolutely untrue” that nobody has stepped forward to claim they knew Obama as a college student.
    
    After making the Trump-esque claim that Obama has spent “millions of dollars” to keep his records sealed, Root went on to demand that Obama release his college transcripts, then speculated that the reason he hasn’t done so is because he was enrolled as a “foreign exchange student.” That claim has its origins in a fake news article sent around as an April Fools’ joke.”
    
    Source:http://mediamatters.org/tags/wayne-allyn-root
    - Gregg Smith
      
      Karl Rove in 2008: O 338 Mc 200�
      George Will in 2008: O 378 Mc 160
      
      I think Dick Morris predicted McCain but I can’t find it.
      
      I think Scarborough predicted Hillary would win.
      
      My point is you have not refuted these peoples opinions you have merely accused them of putting ideology ahead of truth.
      
      Media Matters is an abomination with zero credibility.
    - hennorama
      
      I’m not refuting anything; the election will do that. What I’m saying to you is that you may simply wish to look into the background of those you think are experts.
      
      Any idiot could have predicted the outcome of the 2008 Presidential election after Sen. John McCain said “the fundamentals of our economy are strong,” effectively losing the election on Sept, 15, 2008.
      
      If your criticism is about my source of the facts about Vegas hustler Wayne Allyn Root and his complete lack of credibility, there is no shortage of sources about both his MLM/pyramid scheming and his obvious anti-Obama bias.
      
      Same thing with Kudlow and his hilarious denial of the Great Recession in 2007 and 2008. Great call there, for an economist. Tough to think he’d be a great predictor of election outcomes when he got something in his own area of expertise so spectacularly wrong.
      
      Even you have said Morris is a creep. His record on predictions is “spectacular” (NOT!) Here’s a sample:
      
      In a 2005 book on the 2008 presidential campaign, Morris stated that it was most likely that Hillary Clinton would face Condoleezza Rice for the presidency. FAIL
      
      June 22, 2005, Morris predicted Hillary Clinton would face her “worst nightmare” in her 2006 Senate race against Republican candidate Jeanine Pirro, whose campaign collapsed within two months. FAIL
      
      Sept. 2005: Morris wrote that Hurricane Katrina “has the capacity to shape the second Bush term in the same way September 11 shaped his first term—not only in rebuilding New Orleans but in taking preventative steps around the nation to bolster our defenses against natural and man-made disasters and terror strikes. Responding to disasters is a source of presidential strength and popularity, and Bush is about to show how it is done.” EPIC FAIL
      
      August 2012: On Fox News, Morris claimed that Bill Clinton was going to vote for Mitt Romney, but that he would still speak in favor of Obama because “his wife is hostage.” This was part of the exchange:
      
      “DICK MORRIS: I guarantee you, Sean, based on what I’ve heard from third parties or I’ve spoken to that William Jefferson Clinton is going to cast his ballot for Mitt Romney.
      
      HANNITY: Wow!
      
      MORRIS: However, he’s going to open his mouth for Barack Obama because his wife is hostage. They have her under lock and key as Secretary of State, and he is scared that Obama will lose and blame him if he undermines Obama. So he’ll do everything he asks him to do and then he’ll jab him whenever he can.” LAUGHABLY WRONG
      
      Sources:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Morris
      
      http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2012/07/30/dick-morris-i-guarantee-bill-clinton-going-cast-his-ballot-mitt-romne#ixzz2BN0pSlqs
      
      Rove’s background speaks for itself.
      
      I have no real problem with the opinions of Will or Scarborough. Will’s conservative bias is widely known, and Scarborough is probably more open-minded than all of the others combined.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      I am familiar with all of them. Michael Barone is a God, respected by all not just the right. Rove and Will were objective and right in 2008. I don’t get your point.
      
      All I said was I am causiously optimistic. Throw out Root and Morris if you want but if you think Barone, Rove or Will are partisan lightweights then I can’t help you.
      
      How about the CNN poll that has them tied but the sample is +11 Democrats? Is that objective? In 2008 it was only +7 and no one expects the same Democrat enthusiasm now. You asked what has changed since 2004 and 2008, the answer is 4 years of Obama failure and the rise of the Tea Party. My question for you is what has changed since 2010?
    - hennorama
      
      Ummm … Barone is a god, huh? I wasn’t aware he’d been deified. What’s this new cult called? Lamebrain Echo? (that’s an anagram of “Michael Barone” FYI)
      
      Respected by all, huh? Not exactly. You can see a few articles tagged in the DailyKos here:
      
      http://www.dailykos.com/news/Michael%20Barone
      
      And in MediaMatters.org:
      
      http://mediamatters.org/search/index?qstring=barone
      
      Perhaps you can cite something Barone’s written that is critical of a Republican, or supportive of a Democrat. I doubt it, but good luck.
      
      None of the men you cited are unbiased, and being right in 2008 is not a recommendation for any political pundit, as anyone with a functioning brain knew Sen. McCain was toast after his “the economy is fundamentally sound” remarks.
      
      I have no comments about any national polls – they are completely irrelevant, since we elect the President on a state-by-state basis.
      
      As to the remainder of your post – I believe you’ve mixed my comments up with another’s.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      We’ve hit a dead end if you don’t recognize the genius of Barone. And you come at me with Kos and Media Matters? That’s very lame. Am I to assume you are not familiar with Barone and just googled some hate? That’s not knowledge. The Almanac of American politics is the Bible and it’s not partisan one iota.
    - hennorama
      
      Mr. Barone’s views are neither infallible, nor universally respected, as I demonstrated. He clearly has a viewpoint – conservative all the way. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but he is not unbiased. As I said, please try to find anything positive he’s said about a Democrat, or anything negative he’s said about any Republican.
      
      My entire point is that the people who made the predictions you cited are not unbiased, and several of these people are quite unsavory characters. I can’t believe anyone would take anything Dick Morris says seriously, for example. How he remains on the scene is beyond me.
NewtonWhale

Nate Silver ‏@fivethirtyeight
Dick Morris says Romney will win 325 electoral votes. 538 model puts chances of Romney winning 325+ EVs at 1.1%.
- Gregg Smith
  
  Nate Silver is out on a limb. Most are saying it’s a toss up but Silver is the only one I know that is predicting a big Obama win. There are many predicting a big Romney win. Rove was right in 2008. Morris is probably over the top and is truly creepy but he knows his stuff. The huge advantage Romney holds with independents is consequential.
  - MrNutso
    
    Silver is not so much predicting a big Obama win as much as the probability of the out come being what his numbers are.
    - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
      
      Don’t waste your breath explaining to the uncomprehending. It doesn’t matter what Gregg says.
      
      Unless you and I were to setup a three-card monte table in his office. Then it’s ka-ching for us!
  - jefe68
    
    Nate Silver is dealing with probability’s, not predictions. There is a difference.
    Romney has a chance to win this, but the probability that he will is less than Obama’s.
    
    If Oabam wins Ohio, WI, PA, Iowa, it’s not likely Romney can win.
    
    The interesting thing about this is the popular vote which is only about a 1 to 2% difference between each candidate.
- Ray in VT
  
  325 would mean Romney winning all of the swing states except for Nevada, or some other such scenario.
  - Gregg Smith
    
    That’s what Morris says but he has Obama winning Michigan.
    - Ray in VT
      
      It’s certainly possible that that scenario could play out, but it seems unlikely. Hopefully we’ll know late tomorrow and not sometime thereafter.
    - DrewInGeorgia
      
      It’ll be sometime thereafter and I bet there will be a litigious Hundred Million Dollar Port-a-Pottie involved.
NewtonWhale

“The last three days of polling have brought what is almost certainly Mr. Obama’s strongest run of polling since the first presidential debate in Denver. Mr. Obama led in the vast majority of battleground-state polls over the weekend. And increasingly, it is hard to find leads for Mr. Romney in national surveys — although several of them show a tie.”
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/05/nov-4-did-hurricane-sandy-blow-romney-off-course/
- Gregg Smith
  
  Set aside the fact that my Carolina Panthers beat the Redskins at home. Gleaned from Drudge:
  
  Rasmussan R 49% O 48%
  ABC/Washington Post R 48% O 49%
  Gallup swing R48% O 48%
  CNN is tied with a +11 Democrat sample
  Pew O 48% R 45% with a +6 Dem. sample
  Florida R 52% O 47%
  Michigan R 47% O 46%
  Virginia R 47% O 48%
  - NewtonWhale
    
    Evidently, you believe in Drudge’s choice of data and I believe in Nate Silver’s. The good news is that we’ll know which was right in a couple of days.
    
    So, instead of debating this, why not do the rational thing:
    
    If Drudge is wrong, you’ll stop reading and citing him.
    
    If Silver is wrong, I’ll do the same with him.
    
    Agreed?
    - brettearle
      
      Drudge is a gossip-monger.
      
      Silver is a professional.
      
      Drudge knows he has more latitude to say any number of things and still survive.
      
      Silver wouldn’t risk his reputation, by going out on a limb–unless he knew what he was talking about.
      
      You won’t lose the gentleman’s bet.
      
      [Although I'm not sure whom you're trying to come to an agreement with, is a gentleman.]
    - Gregg Smith
      
      What does Drudge have to do with squat?
    - Gregg Smith
      
      Drudge has nothing to do with it. It’s not his data. I have no idea what you are talking about. He’s reporting, he’s not a pollster. Nate Silver is a pollster whom Drudge also reported on.
    - NewtonWhale
      
      No, Silver is not a pollster. He is a statistician who reports on polls. Drudge also reports on polls, he just doesn’t have Silver’s expertise at statistical analysis.
    - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
      
      Tangent: Doesn’t “Drudge reporting on Silver” sound like that old brainteaser?
      
      Y’know, where I can ask exactly one question of either an angel or an identical demon, each stationed in front of identical doors going to Heaven or Hell, and have to choose a door from the response?
    - Gregg Smith
      
      Again, Drudge is not a pollster, he is not a statistician. He does not offer any analysis. He simply passed on the results of Pew, Rasmussen, Gallup and others including Silver.
      
      Do you seriously see no difference?
    - NewtonWhale
      
      Do you seriously lack even the most rudimentary critical reading skills?
      
      I told you the difference: Silver is a statistician, Drudge is not. What they have in common is that you and I rely on them for our information on the state of the race.
      In doing that they both report on polls taken by others. Drudge selects those polls that conform to his right wing agenda. Silver evaluates ALL the polls.Of course I see a difference. Silver is objective, Drudge is an ideologue. You pass off Drudge’s droppings as reliable. I prefer the reality based world in which Silver exists.
      
      I challenged you to give up your source if he’s wrong and you’re trying to change the subject.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      You are missing the point. Do you seriously not see the difference between Silver doing his analysis and Drudge reporting it? What is not objective about reporting the opinions of pollsters?
      
      Silver may be right, who knows.
  - Ray in VT
    
    I’m sure that Drudge wouldn’t just pick the most favorable polls. I prefer to look at the RCP page. The Florida poll is a bit of an outlier. That doesn’t mean that it’s wrong, but it’s out of the pack. Same with the Michigan poll. Ultimately it’s all educated guess work until the votes get counted.
    - WorriedfortheCountry
      
      Actually, the FL poll is consistent with the TBT-MasonDixon poll from late last week. The NBC/Marist poll appears to be the outlier. Then again, Marist may be correct.
      
      These polls appear bimodal this year.
    - Ray in VT
      
      Yes, it is consistent with the one other poll that shows Romney with a large lead. All of the others from the last week show Obama +2 to Romney +3. Again, who knows, but the further that one gets from the average the more skeptical I get.
    - WorriedfortheCountry
      
      Are there any early bellwethers this year? My sense is if they call VA early either way (Romney or Obama > +3) then we may have an early night.
      
      That said, we’ll probably have to wait for Ohio.
    - Ray in VT
      
      I don’t know if there are any bellwethers. Maybe Virginia and Ohio could be somewhat analogous. Both went for Bush twice (I think), both went for Obama in 2008, and both have a some figures, such as unemployment, that are better than the national average, so we may see a similar result. I did hear them say last week that if the popular vote is within .25% in Ohio then there is a mandatory recount, and it could take upwards of 20 days to certify the count in such a situation.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      Most are using 2008 models. This ain’t 2008.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      No, he wouldn’t as is proven by the several polls showing Obama up. Rasmussan, Gallup and Pew are the big ones and he listed them all.
    - Ray in VT
      
      The only one that I don’t see listed of the national ones is Politico (I don’t know if you want to call them one of the “big ones”, tied by the way). Are those just today’s polls? I ask because the Michigan poll is the only poll in that state showing Romney up since that same group had him up there in August, and I don’t see you listing the one out of New Hampshire with Obama up 3.
    - WorriedfortheCountry
      
      I find that UNH NH poll interesting. They had Obama +8 on Oct. 22, the race tied on Nov. 3 and today O +3.
      
      Seems like a random noise generator.
    - Ray in VT
      
      That October 22nd poll looks to have been a real outlier. If you look at a lot of the states, then you see a few of those and you just have to think “where did that number come from?”
    - Gregg Smith
      
      Here’s the other side.
      
      http://www.theblaze.com/stories/an-obama-landslide-here-are-the-expert-predictions-that-point-to-a-decisive-obama-victory/
    - Ray in VT
      
      That Jim Cramer number is hilarious. I think that he should stick to watching the market and using sound effects.
    - DrewInGeorgia
      
      and recounted.
  - brettearle
    
    The Michigan percentages are off. It’s Obama’s state. Especially because of Romney’s incompetent ads.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      I tend to agree with Dick Morris that Obama will win Michigan. But it’s in play and is not even considered swing state.
Denis

And who are these “heavyweights?” Are you speaking of body weight or are you speaking of proven track record pollsters?
- brettearle
  
  He’s speaking of top-heavy, biased hacks whose brain weight is densely populated, in the jaded emotional center, not the locus for the Intellect.
- agavegirl
  
  He’s talking about Rush!
Yar

Are they the same group that say climate change is not influenced by human activity? Republican science is a interesting paradox.

Alex Kingsbury

test

Flytrap

http://www.alternativeright.com/main/blogs/zeitgeist/election-rhetoric-the-full-on-wank/
Yes, the crucial day of decision is Tuesday, November 6, so remember, please,
to report to your local polling place on that day and cast your vote
for the candidate I’m endorsing, the one who represents purity, goodness
and integrity, the one whose party is striving mightily to put a stop
to the wickedness and skullduggery so prevalent in American politics
today. Unfortunately, the opposing party just keeps on ruthlessly
promoting their own corrupt self-interests and resolutely refuses to do the will of the American people (which of course is always of necessity the right
thing—see the note regarding the “wisdom of the majority,” above). But
this can all change, if with your help we elect the candidate and the
party that I’m endorsing, whose identity should by now be perfectly clear.

ttajtt

it is not going to matter who wins. a huge natural disaster, hunger – thirst – disease – wars: 8b = 4b = 2b. maybe might be possibly time yet. plus what shortage (s) we have now. space travel ? what must change to remain the same? pole said moved closer to tipping point, after japan quake. coa$t will take off whom$ family can afford it. peace stays together clan – tribe – net work heard works. Mormon is a white religion, with rearing to get a planet. scares me too. will the earlier kill offs be made smaller. primitive living skills is the same.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

The biggest happiest crowd will not be the one whose candidate wins tomorrow, it’s going to be the ones that know it’s finally over and they don’t have to listen to an endless stream of fantasy and lies pushed as the truth.

hennorama

The saddest crowd will be the media companies who collected the billions spent on this election cycle. Of course, they’ll be quite happy again in only two years, when the mid-term elections roll around.
Buckle up. This is merely the ending of the beginning of the mediamoneystorm, which will be far worse than SuperStormSandy. This is the first Presidential election in the wake of the wrong-headed Citizens United decision, and it will be far from the most expensive.

DrewInGeorgia

All Presidential Candidates should receive equal air-time in the National Media. Money is not Speech.

There should be a uniform ballot for National Elections agreed upon by all States. All Candidates should be listed.

Polls should be eliminated entirely.

The Electoral College needs to be relegated to the annals of history.

Hey pollsters, you’ll find out who won the election the same time the rest of us do. Isn’t there something more constructive (and less coercive) you could be doing with your time?

http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

How do you feel on adopting the practice, used in some countries, of banning of broadcast ads for X number of weeks before the election?

This cycle seems to have had more of that “firehose aimed at a teacup” effect than ever.
- http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp
  
  I don’t bother with broadcast television, so I’ve missed most of the ads.
  - DrewInGeorgia
    
    I’ve missed all of the ads thankfully with the exception of the DNC and RNC infomercials.
  - Ray in VT
    
    I couldn’t even avoid them in the barn this weekend. They started running ads on the rock station that I listen to when I milk, and it had been ad free up until then. It makes me wonder who they were trying to influence. Maybe they thought that they could swing a point or two in an NY Congressional race.
- DrewInGeorgia
  
  I wouldn’t necessarily support banning ads although I like the idea that it could potentially encourage individuals to independently research the candidates. I think the environment would be completely different if the obscene amounts of money were taken out of the equation and the current saturation likely wouldn’t exist.
  - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
    
    Not “banning ads”.
    
    Stopping them a determined time before election day on broadcast and cable TV.
    
    In the same way that people can’t hold candidates’ signs within 50 or 100 feet of the door of an entrance to a polling place (in many states).
    
    Of course, I may just be harboring a post-Citizen’s United dream.
    - DrewInGeorgia
      
      I understood what you were saying, guess I should have been more specific. The independent research spike I mentioned would only happen as a result of a political ad black out close to the election. I wonder though if even that would motivate us to learn about those we elect.
    - http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
      
      Yeah, if so much of it stopped being blasted at us, there might be more interest about it, paradoxically.
hennorama

We may want to start with something even more basic- a Constitutional Right To Vote Amendment.
This could solve many of the vote denying and other election trickery that happens before, during and after every election.

Find out more:http://www.fairvote.org/right-to-vote-amendment

anamaria23

Though I wish Gov romney a long and happy life wherever he is, the real danger to the country would be the ascendance of Paul Ryan to the Presidency. His limited world view enabled by the drug addled (lifelong addiction to amphetamines) atheistic Ayn Rand. Immature and lacking in real life exposure– never left his home town– Mr. Ryan may be one of the most ill fit persons ever to be next in line to be leader of the free world.

brettearle

If Romney loses, it’s unlikely that Ryan will emerge, anytime soon, as a Presidential candidate.

As has been pointed out to me, VP candidates, who lose, normally don’t run for President.

Ryan knows that he’d be more effective as Speaker of the House.

Christie is the next GOP President, in 2016…..

Pointing out Rand’s drug addiction, however, weakens your argument against Ryan’s ideology.

You’re trying to suggest that Medicare Vouchers would never have crossed Ryan’s mind–if Rand had never popped a pep pill?

Pleeaasse….
- 1Brett1
  
  I accept your point that Rand’s drug addictions didn’t have an influence on Ryan, her novels did. The idea of vouchers isn’t an ideology; what leads a person to see vouchers as part of an overall world view is part and parcel, though, of an ideology. Just the fact that Ryan, up until a few months ago, embraced Randian “philosophy” is troubling (he only really seemed to abandon talking about her because of her atheistic views, which seems more out of political expediency than anything).
  
  Aside from her [Rand] hypocrisy (she accepted government support in old age) and her crass way of discussing serious, complex topics with absolute simplistic certainty, her writing was not something that will endure the test of time. She will never be more embraced with interest than she was by high school and college freshman in the ’60s and ’70s. Interest in her novels and “philosophy” waned within a couple of decades after her popularity. Only a few neo-con, neo-libertarian types have mentioned her as an influence.
  
  I took away from Anna Maria’s worry regarding Ryan’s ascension to mean if Romney is elected, which would mean a longer career on the national stage for Ryan. However, if Romney loses, Ryan might just fade away, that is if the next four years goes well. If it doesn’t, maybe her worry has validity even with a Romney loss…
  - brettearle
    
    If you are going to make a cogent entry–such as your comment above–at least you’ve got the right kind of name to do it with.
    
    [partially translated....I'll get back to you, hopefully]
1Brett1

Ayn Rand was a third-rate novelist with a penchant for junkyard philosopy, who only had some popularity with high schoolers and college freshman trying on such ideas for the first time. Her proteges became third-rate psychologists with junkyard philosopies…she has seemed to only spawn third-rate something-or-others with junkyard philosophies…
- anamaria23
  
  My point.

MadMarkTheCodeWarrior

Polarization is our number one party… it has been a disaster for this country. I put this 95% at the feet of republicans.

In 2010 as the country was still teetering economically from Bush’s mess, Boehner and McConnel publicly stated that there number one agenda was to make Obama fail. They did not mention working together to help pull the country out of the economic ditch they both cheered us towards under Bush.

They got suicidal in 20011 putting party before country, when they steered us towards another economic cliff playing chicken with US debt default. Damn the risks if nobody blinked… political victory at any price. That theatrical crisis created by the Republicans set back our economic recovery by how many months?

Nothing offered by the Democrats is acceptable to them- not even proposals once made by Republicans.

They took the politics of political destruction to a new level. Teachers
are minions of the devil. Unions are all communists. Government workers
are useless. Government is bad. Regulation is evil. The fear mongering
of this cult is tearing this country apart. They systematically promote ignorance, fear and anger.

So how do you work with such a collectively insane party? God only knows. Republicans need to take back their party from the Tea Bagger nutters and Neo-Con Crooks!!!

Maybe then we’ll have a chance for compromise.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

The public effectively nullifies itself and the 1% push what they want forward. It’s just the way they want it.
http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

The elections of 2000 and 2004 were 50% plus a handful. It’s not just the Republicans who are causing polarization. There has to be another pole, since nature abhors a monopole.
- TomK_in_Boston
  
  Not true. Electric charges are ubiquitous and are monopoles. You’re thinking of magnetic monopoles.
  
  The polarization is the TeaOP fault. No false equivalence, please. McConnell said the agenda was to make Obama a 1-term president. We can stop the discussion now, but there’s more.
  
  Obamacare is basically Romney care and had its roots in conservative ideas from the Heritage foundation and Newt Gingrich. But now they hate it! It’s socialism, a “total gvt takeover”, which is a good trick considering that the private hospital corps, drug corps and insurance corps will still be in charge.
  
  Infrastructure used to be the no-brainer bipartisan issue. Now they hate that too!
  
  You want polarization? How about a party that hates its own ideas when they come from a President from the other party. Thanks, TeaOP.
  - http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp
    
    The Tea Party didn’t exist in 2000 or 2004. No retroactive continuity, either.
    - MadMarkTheCodeWarrior
      
      So the Tea Party is the Republican Party now?
      
      TomK and I are referring to non-T-baggers and the hypocrisy that what used to be good as our idea is no longer acceptable as your idea.
      
      That is insane! You can’t reason with terrorists and the T-Baggers have become just that. Look at how they have systematically targetted moderate Republicans. 95% voting records are no longer acceptable… it’s vote 100% with us or we destroy you in the party primaries. How can a local politician stand up to add campaigns against him or her funded by a billionaire?
      
      And these amoral tools don’t realize they are nothing more than the tools of folks like the Koch brothers and Roger Ailes who are laughing all the way to the bank. Manipulating their thinking like marionettes. Behold the birth of the 4th Reich.
    - TomK_in_Boston
      
      Too true.
      
      It’s endless…the ones screaming about negligence in Libya were fine with W spending a long vacation clearin’ brush in crawford while the alarm bells were going off in DC about “bin Laden determined to strike in USA”.
    - TomK_in_Boston
      
      So what? The dems were immensely more cooperative with W than the TeaOP was with BHO. They supported his wars and medicare Part D, to mention two that immediately come to mind, appointments were approved more rapidly and there were far fewer filibusters.
      
      C’mon, Obamacare represents a huge effort at bipartisanship. It abandons the liberal agenda of a national health care plan for the Heritage foundation version, with the conservative “individual mandate” that the righties wanted so no slackers would get a free ride. But all those righty ideas became toxic when Obama offered them. It’s insane, unless you realize that McConnell stated the true agenda.
      
      Do you remember any dem saying “The agenda is to make W a 1 term president”?
ttajtt

the good ol boys, i don’t know.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

When they do election returns does the media charge more to advertisers during close races that will more likely be watched?

It seems the media is always pushing for a close race.

Yar

Polling based on what percentage of voter turnout? The poles are meaningless when they leave the number of expected votes cast. Call the question, make the pollsters tell their expected turnout numbers.

http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

Don’t assume all the polls are accurate.

Rasmussen, this close to election day, has started its “wow, we’d better start putting out results like everyone else’s” act.

Tracy Staedter

How important are polls when betting markets Intrade and Betfair also show the President maintaining a strong lead. Intrade has never been wrong. http://www.intrade.com/v4/home/

WorriedfortheCountry

If intrade was correct then Santorum would be the GOP nominee.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1749902452 Danielle O’Hallisey

So here’s a weird twist. A number of states have pledged to give their electoral votes to the winner of the popular vote. My own state, Vermont, the most blue state in the nation, is one of them. What are the odds that we end up with those few states who made this pledge end up deciding the election (either way?)

http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

That pledge will last one election if the national popular vote doesn’t match the state’s vote–if it isn’t thrown out immediately.
http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

Sounds great in theory.

But then if you look at it will you find:

Texas, the big redstate plum?

The solid south?

All those thinly-populated, EV-overrepresented states between the West Coast and the Mississippi River?

For those reasons, I say (once again): I’ll believe “bipartisanship” is a good idea when Republicans do it first.
J__o__h__n

That isn’t in effect this election. It is only triggered when enough states to provide a majority of electoral votes sign on.

http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

If I don’t recognize the number, I don’t answer the phone. Anyone who needs to talk to me can leave a message.

Steve_the_Repoman

I live in WI and have been inundated by election madness for the past several years.

When the pollsters call you can:

    -refuse to answer
    -answer the call and identify yourself as
     Walker/Barrett (Obama/Romney) campagin
     headquarters  (easily discernible from pollster’s own
     description)
    -ask to be paid for your opinion
    -or my wife’s personal least favorite (insert wife’s
     name, Swedish massage)

Polls, TV, sports, gambling, elections, national pundits…

they are all demanding more time, more resources, more finely tuned crap detectors but are producing less substance and quality.

I believe that polls and politics allow our elected officials to slice and dice the electorate and divide us into easily manipulated pieces.

http://www.facebook.com/jbfox3 Jane B Fox

Then we have a popular vote and not an electoral vote.

ttajtt

its programeding we do. how else does progresses work, whose sarcastic –

J__o__h__n

People at Romney rallies appearing to be supporting Romney is much more predictive than polls. Who is this expert?

http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

Extry! Extry! Romney campaign refuses to let frostbite victims leave rally!

http://americablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Screen-Shot-2012-11-04-at-7.25.46-PM.jpg

http://americablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Screen-Shot-2012-11-04-at-7.12.00-PM.jpg

I don’t get it. What can they threaten these kids with? I mean it’s not like they can be fired, like those miners forced by their bosses to appear for Romney on the days off.

JGC

LOL

jefe68

Romney on the economy? He’s hedged his bet in the auto restructuring and made an estimated $100 million plus.
He has off shore accounts. Romney’ Massachusetts record as governor is awful. He failed at the economy.
If people want to vote for a guy who has no interest in the middle class so be it, but they are in for a huge surprise.

OnpointListener

UAW and others are filing an ethics complaint in Washington today due to Romney non-disclosure of Anne’s blind trust investments in the hedge fund that took control of Delphi automotive. Delphi threatened to then shut down without a big bailout. If the US had not given Delphi a bailout, the auto industry would have collapsed. The US was held hostage.

Delphi then proceeded to close factories and ship jobs overseas.

Google – the nation and delphi or go to UAW website.

Bain did the same thing with FDIC….Romney is a vulture.

http://www.facebook.com/jbfox3 Jane B Fox

I’m an older white voter with a university degree who voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004. I learned my lesson and will never vote Republican again, even if Obama ran the party.

Yar

Do your partisan pollsters expect longer lines in the rich white districts or in poor black districts? What does that mean for democracy?

http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

Now Yar, some people just want to have to vote bad enough to do it.

Funny how working class folks of color in swing states with GOP Secretaries of State are the ones who have to “want it more”.

Erica Gilmore

I am nervous. Do think it will be a squeaker for President Obama. Never the less, he has been a great President. I want him to have another 4 years. The economy is coming back. He needs the opportunity to complete what he has started.

Steve__T

If the congress stops trying to kill everything, maybe.

http://twitter.com/aardee aardee

I have been watching this election from the sidelines as an independent – someone whose opinion didn’t matter (so far). I wasn’t eligible to vote. That allowed me to look at both the candidates with a very open mind. Somehow I was scheduled for my oath of Allegiance to the United States of America on Friday (11/02) and that allowed me to register to vote.So now I am voting for the “lesser of two evils” – Obama. I just cannot vote for the candidate who can say (call it lie/flip-flop) anything to get elected.

JGC

Romney has told some whoppers, one of the most recent egregious examples is when he was campaigning in Ohio on Oct. 25 and falsely told voters there that Chrysler Jeep division “is thinking of moving all production to China.”

WorriedfortheCountry

LAST NIGHT CBS/60 minutes releases full Obama interview on Benghaizi taped on September 12th without fanfare.

The interview raises questions and muddles Obama’s second debate comments.

WHY did CBS hold this interview until now?

http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2012/11/05/what-president-obama-really-said-60-minutes-interview-about-benghazi/

Steve__T

What makes you think that Faux News would print anything truthful, Its opinion news not factual, but supposition.

Nice try
- http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
  
  “By his links one becomes known.”
- WorriedfortheCountry
  
  Clearly you didn’t read it since it is simply a transcript of various events — no opinion involved.
  
  However, IF they had released the full interview after the second debate it would have changed the post debate analysis on a key moment in the debate.
  - Steve__T
    
    Yes I read it, and I am still shaking my head to get around how well twisted they can twist, somebody been taking notes from you.

http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

The better question to be asking right now is how we block these organizations from gathering that much information about us.

ttajtt

pull the plug & try to go on.

Gr8artLvr

I’m an Independent, middle class, religious, retired, white woman. The polls don’t apply to me. My husband and I will vote for Obama tomorrow. The problem is we live in Alabama and our vote really doesn’t count.

DrewInGeorgia

How do you and your husband feel about the proposition to amend the Alabama State Constitution to specify that Public Education is not a Right?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/ala-constitution-vote-looms-amending-history-17578296#.UJfe53qgWuM
- http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
  
  Direct referenda on the wording in a state’s constitution?
  
  Talk about designed to fail. And that link shows a prime example.
Thinkin5

Your vote does count. It will register with the national vote count because people will see the support you gave to Obama in Alabama. Please do vote. Your fellow Obama supporters thank you!!
Human898

I’m an independent too, I was a Republican before the “neo” influence moved in and turned a once Grander Old Party into the party of Greed. Things like a stated “Top Priorty” of making sure a president is not re-elected rather than working with the president to lift the nation out of the worst financial crisis since the worst that took place under a republican president. That president was the first in the history of this nation to posess a Masters degree in Business Administration so I’m not sure how a “business background, suddenly became a “good thing”. In addition, the republican party chose GWB over McCain in 2000, then chose John McCain over Mitt Romney in 2008. McCain lost to Mr. Obama. Why is Mitt Romney suddenly the best republicans can do?

I sure hope you can get out and vote tomorrow and thanks!

Your vote does count, everyone’s does. Some are hoping some people will believe as you have and they won’t vote because they think, not living in a swing state, their vote won’t make a difference.   It does make a difference. No election, even in non-swing states is “in the bag” for any candidate.

TyroneJ

I was only able to listen to part of the show, so maybe Sam Wang (Princeton) was on, but if not, he should have been. His meta-anaysis on the Princeton Electoral College website has a great track record. “In 2004, the median decided-voter calculation captured the exact final outcome. In 2008, the final-week decided-voter calculation was within 1 electoral vote.” At this point, his anaysis has Obama: 305 Romney: 233.

OnpointListener

Undecided?

Please listen to President Clinton urging support for President Obama… a great summary of why Obama is the best candidate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=P2UF13Kvd0Q

jim_thompson

Tom,

I love politics like a sport, but I will be so glad to breathe a bit on Nov. 7th. I live in Sout Carolina, but will be at the polls tomorrow at 7am to vote for the President’s re-election. As a Massachusetts transplant I just hope the antion doesn’t make the mistake Massachusetts made by electing Mitt Romney. As I review all the polls I’m going inot tomorrow with a VERY optimistic outlook. It is possible Romney could win, but not looking probable. I like Nate Silver’s forecast today!

Jim in Fort Mill,SC

http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

“He’s a Real American!” says Joseph, on why Romney will win.

Tom, is there something in the public radio handbook about not calling out a birther?

DrewInGeorgia

Caller JoSeph…C’MON SCREENERS!!!

Mike_Card

And southerners wonder why yankees think they’re just ignorant, gun-toting, bible-thumpers. Actually, I think the caller was just an actor with an ear for accents; he probably lives in Gloucester.

distractedriver

Can we get a picture of this man talking “Adam and Steve?” I imagine he looks like a caricature.

IsaacWalton

Dear caller, you have to realize that MITT has been more MODERATE in his political life than NOW. He took Ryan only as his mate (pun intended) to LOOK more conservative. Mitt courted the Gay Republican arm (Log Cabin Republicans) to get their votes in Massachusetts. Wake up!

Thinkin5

Mitt wants votes and will say anything liberal now to get them. Then he will side with the people who put up the money to make him their candidate. Grover has control over Mitt and the Repcons.

J__o__h__n

Caller, god didn’t create Adam and Eve either.

ttajtt

Green Tea, health or partie$?

larsrisd

I think people are enthusiastic for Obama – but I’ve had friends physically threatened for displaying pro-Obama bumper stickers, for example. The repubs have been riled up for years by guys like Limbaugh. I suspect that if it weren’t for the intentional fostering of fury we’d see much more apathy on the part of the Republican party voters…but then I think we’d also see more people willing to talk civilly about -issues- rather than rant and rave about red herrings and intentional misrepresentation of the events.

Thinkin5

People are stealing Obama and Warren lawn signs here in Mass. As if that will change our minds!!!
- larsrisd
  
  I’ve heard the same thing in CT. It’s sad and more than a little pathetic.
- WorriedfortheCountry
  
  What town?
  
  I know the Dems were stealing signs in Wellesly for Brown and Romney.

Scott B

Romney wasn’t a successful Gov. Mass was about the lowest in job creation and education when he was in office. How does that translate to success? The only thing he was successful at was what is now known as “Obamacare”, which he vows repeal, but somehow keep all the parts people like, but only if they already are insured… That’s one dizzy rooster on that weather vane Romney uses to pick a position.

WorriedfortheCountry

Public education was number #1 in the country under Romney -after his reforms.

Also, Romney improved the states job creation ranking from 50th to 22nd. He left office with a 4.7% unemployment rate — every economist will tell you that is full employment.

He also turned a $3B budget deficit into a $2B rainy day fund by implementing common sense reforms. He did this without massive cuts in services and without raising broad based fees or taxes.

His record was successful by any objective measure.
- larsrisd
  
  That’s all true, if you listen to Romney. According to the Boston Globe, he cut k-12 by $181 million, and Higher ed by $100 million. Looks like he wants to cut Pell grants too. Those grants are a huge help to middle class people trying to educate their kids. Romney can’t take credit for Mass. education. It was great when he came into office.
  
  He dramatically increased state (government jobs) in mass during his time in office. How does that jive with him saying he wants to cut government?
  
  Romney’s first budget as Mass Governor included -$240 MILLION- in fee increases.
  
  As president, it looks like he’d do the same thing. He’d give us a tax break, but remove deductions that primarily benefit the middle class – so as he did in Mass, he’d might not raise taxes, but he’d slam the middle class from another angle.
  
  The words he speaks might be true, but they are completely misdirecting, and muddy his true intent, which seems to be to keep the flow of money towards the 1%.
  - WorriedfortheCountry
    
    The debt (now at $51K/man woman and child) dwarfs every other issue.
    
    We are at the tipping point of a debt crisis and the only way out is economic growth.
    
    http://www.usdebtclock.org/
    - larsrisd
      
      I’m not sure where you’re going, but if it’s justifying the increase in government jobs…well, I just don’t see how you can want smaller government on one side, but increasing the number of government jobs because the need for gainful employment suddenly negates the need for smaller government. I’d say first of all, we can try to avoid getting into another stupid war and increasing military spending. Public works jobs maybe to help fix failing infrastructure from the 50′s. Some of it makes sense.
      
      I hear you on the debt clock, but Obama didn’t dig that particular hole – tax breaks did and two wars did.
    - TomK_in_Boston
      
      The debt is being used to scare Americans into accepting the class warfare agenda. The media constantly tell us “If we don’t make medicare a Groupon, the big bad debt will get you”. However, we rarely hear “If the romney types and the corporations don’t pay more taxes, the big bad debt will get you”. Gee, I wonder why
    - WorriedfortheCountry
      
      We need more private jobs not more government jobs. The stimulus was squandered. Very little of it was spent on ‘multiplier’ projects like the TVA or Hoover dam what will spur economic growth over the long term.
      
      75% of the tax cuts went to the middle and lower income levels. Revenue actually went up for the 2 years after the tax cuts. The wars only account for $1T of the $10T debt added by Bush + Obama.
      I agree that we should avoid wars and even cut military spending.
      
      The problem with the debt is duration of under 8 years. When the debt comes due in a few years the $16T will have to be re-upped at a much higher interest rate and interest payments will dominate the entire budget.
      
      The Federal reserve policies to help prop up the economy have already had an effect on the middle class. The high cost of food and gas are a direct result of Federal Reserve policies.
  - keltcrusader
    
    Romney was an absolute disaster for MA, but you wouldn’t know it if you listen to WorriedforRomney. He slashed state aid to cities&towns who in turn had to raise property taxes an average of 22% over his term in office. He slashed state funding of the MA University system which caused increases in tuition & fees. He raised the cost of state fees to the tune of $500 million dollars in just his 1st year in office just so he could say he didn’t increase the state imcome tax. He also oversaw the largest state population out-migration of any other state during the period he was governor. Sure unemployment was down because working-age people were fleeing the state in droves. Education in MA was already wonderful before he came onto the scene, but his cuts in education, while not impacting wealthier communities, hit towns & cities with less financial abilities very hard. Then he disappeared to run for president and used the state as the butt of his jokes while he traversed the country. Great Governor…. NOT!
TomK_in_Boston

Romney was a mediocre, no-show gov, except for one thing – Obamacare. We now have the crazy situation of Lord R denouncing his one significant accomplishment as gov, while the normal thing would be bragging about it. Of course the etchasketch is shaking so violently now that he’s mellowed on his own plan, but he sure hated it when he was a “severe conservative”

http://twitter.com/setaspellmedia setaspell media

Why do the 3rd party candidates do not even get mentioned in the polls? Perhaps if Gary Johnson ( also a 2 term governor and successful business man) was even mentioned, he might could pull 5 maybe 10%

Steve__T

The powers that be do not want people to know their are more than two choices.
Steve__T

The powers that be do not want people to know their are more than two choices.

terry7

I am most worried about the inability of displaced
victims of Hurricane Sandy to get to the polls. People whose homes have
been flooded, blown away, or otherwise destroyed and others who have
been dealing with the consequences of power outages will be too
distraught and distracted to get to the polls. Some of these people
may be sheltered some distance from their voting districts and will not
be able to cast their votes. Just providing generators to all polling
stations does not address this problem. These people are effectively
being disenfranchised. What can be done to address this problem? This is going to disproportionately affect blue states and could well change the results of the election.

http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

Don’t worry, I’m sure the “Bizarro World Justice League” (Ken Blackwell, John Husted, Rick Scott, and Scott Walker) will be flying in on Katherine Harris’ invisble jet to make sure these people can vote.
Steve__T

Mobil voter booths, the type used in Louisiana after Katrina.
hennorama

Virtually every effort is being made, as others have indicated. There will be some election disruptions, obviously, but it’s highly unlikely this will have any impact on the outcome of the Presidential race. The states most heavily impacted (NY, NJ, MD, DE, CT, RI, MA and WV) are not in doubt.

Google has a great interactive map about SuperStorm Sandy:

http://google.org/crisismap/2012-sandy

And anyone with web access can find out where to vote, simply by checking here:

http://www.vote411.org/enter-your-address

wandahendrix

I firmly believe that the fervent anti-Obama movement is nothing but straight up racism, plain and simple. Combine these anti-Obama voters with the pro-Romney’s, and I am afraid Romney will win.

http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

It just couldn’t be that those who oppose Obama disagree with his policies–that’s what you mean?
- larsrisd
  
  I’d have to agree with Wanda, but only in part. I think there’s a lot of anti-Obama rhetoric in play, but I do know a number of people who are strongly anti-Obama, with no good reason. When asked, some even agree with most his the policies, and disagree with Romeny’s – until you attach the name Obama to them. I wouldn’t say racism is the only reason for anti Obama sentiment, but to say it’s nonexistent is naive.
  - Thinkin5
    
    I wonder why Republicans voted against and filibustered legislation that they themselves previously agreed with and even helped write!! How do you explain that kind of obstruction??
    - Steve__T
      
      Un-American nonpartisan stupidity.
notafeminista

Are you saying the only thing a president has to offer is his race?
- http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF
  
  Hey, twisting crap out of nothing is fun! Let me try:
  
  Nota, are you saying you’re not a child molester?
http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

I don’t think it’s all racism. A great deal is; those are the ones who are driving the bus.

It’s a polite fiction, enabled by the mainstream press, that the “revved up base” are strictly “good government budget cutters afraid of overreaching government”.

Because that sort was nowhere to be found, statistically speaking, when the GOP was in the White House. And today they exist only on TV panel shows and right here.
Gregg Smith

That’s sick.
brettearle

I don’t agree.

I’m a strong Obama supporter–but I think that you demonstrate a bias of your own to believe that racism is the only motive that drives the anti-Obama campaign.

I agree, it’s a chunk of it–and more than the GOP wishes to admit.

But there are many other policy reasons and personal reasons, for why Obama is so disliked.

Examples?

–Reverend Wright
–Having lived part of his early life out of the United
   States–especially in the largest Islamic country in the
   world �
–His economic policies are on a DIRECT COLLISION
   COURSE with GOP policies, REGARDLESS of the Tea
   Party.
–His Pro-choice position.

There are other non-racist reasons as well.

When you ascribe racism as a gigantic motive, you destroy the GOP from listening to us, on the other side.

http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

What happened to a secret ballot? Yes, I realize that refers to my specific votes, not the fact that I voted, but there should be no record that I voted last time.

OnpointListener

My understanding is that all counties keep records as to who voted and those records are open to the public.

I think it helps keep the system more honest.
- http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp
  
  Enjoy being monitored.
- ttajtt
  
  big brother, uncle sam, whose the family
WorriedfortheCountry

There seemed to be a bit too much Big Brother in the tactics described by the elderly woman from NH.

So much for Live Free or Die.

JGC

I don’t understand why the Romney campaign did not use more of their billionaire billions to build a better ground game, instead of wasting it on relentless spamming of the television airwaves. What a waste of money. Look to him to waste your money, too, if he wins the presidency.

Thinkin5

I stood in line in Concord, NH yesterday with 14,000 people! Not only are they “pro Obama” but there are plenty who are very anti-Romney and the Tea Party/Repcons. We know that all Mitt’s talk about “compromise” is just campaign pandering. Mitt is even copying Obama’s words now!! “I’ll be the president of all the people!!” So is Scott Brown! NOT FOOLED by this campaign desperation.

tn_amygdala

if Obama wins, it will be the hand of God at play: he sent Sandy to convert Christie and Bloomberg and to make the president look more presidential

Human898

A few things:

Romney lost to John McCain in 2008, what’s changed since then?

At the end of the Bush years, this nation was left with the second worst financial meltdown since the first, are we now undergoing something worse?

How does anyone, especially Republicans after the results of the Bush years, suddenly know enough to determine where a recovery from the second worst financial crisis this nation has experienced should be and at what strength? Have they suddenly become financial genuises? If they have/had been good fiscal and financial stewards, why the “Great Recession” under a Republican administration and what’s going to change from that same sort of leadership?

McCain lost to Bush in 2000, Romney lost to McCain in 2008, why is Romney suddenly the “hero” of Republicans when he wasn’t before?

What exactly is it that Obama has not done relative to where the state of the economy was when he took office? I don’t see any headlines like “Worst Crisis Since 30′s, No End Yet in Sight” http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122169431617549947.html Do others? Why wouldn’t it take a long time to recover from such a meltdown? Is patience a virtue or a sin? How about greed and gluttony?

Why do we bother holding elections? Why not just choose presidents by polls?

Do pollsters make money? Why so many polls in this election? Can money influence polls and the wording in them?

How are polling companies income doing this year versus other years?

Can political campaigns use polls to affect voting?

Why don’t polls ask the same set of people at each interval? �
Wouldn’t that show how people really change?

I’ve done some polling myself and know the answers to many of the above questions, but want to see what others think or believe.

brettearle

I agree with you, fully, about how the 2007 Collapse will take a long time, from which the country will need to recover.

The GOP ignores this, in order to further their candidate and their agenda.

However, Trickle-down Economics vs Trickle-Down Government still remain unproven as to which plan would ever work, under any conditions and circumstances.

It seems to me that there are so many factors beyond domestic-policy control that neither party may have a viable solution.

With regard to polls, I believe that if you did a study of all the major poll companies, you would find that their findings are accurate, often enough, in the last 20 years.

Otherwise, they’d be out of business. And major ones aren’t.
- Human898
  
  Yes, some bookies are accurate too and while there are others in the race, the polls are focused generally on a winner/loser contest and the two that most people could guess, if they paid minimal attention, were going to be involved in that contest. It’s also interesting to learn about the stats and the odds of coin flipping, how that relates to polls and why people get into the polling business.
  
  While hundreds of polls are taken in the run up to an election and the positions change (due to calling random sets of people each time), only one poll has any proof of being accurate, the final one before the election. What are the odds one of two will win? What are the odds if one knows the winners of previous elections that could guess the subsequent ones? Where a candidate is an obvious favorite, predictions aren’t difficult at all.

Jasoturner

Romney’s last, greatest chance at statesmanship will occur tomorrow during his concession speech. Does he have the backbone to call out his own party on it’s litany of litmus tests, policy rigidity and anti-science/anti-intellectual populism?

I have my doubts. But it’s a stand his father would probably actually be proud of. Maybe as he faces the end of his political ambition, he’ll choose to be honest and direct.

Markus6

Mostly, I just want this endless election over with so that there’s a chance the kids on either side will find something else to do. On this site, the republicans are the source of all evil. My guess is that the other side says the same thing about democrats. Regardless who wins, it’d be nice if adults could be heard from again.

Human898

I’ll be glad when it is over too. I imagine real kids, (not the “kids” you are referring to like you and I that post to this site and others like it) of an age they are capable of looking deeper than the talking points are wondering about adults who don’t seem to care about the truth, the whole truth and nothing, but the truth, the thing this kid, was taught to care about as a kid. The biggest problem I have is how to best establish where the truth may actually be in a society where it seems so many have forsaken truth for “winning”. What have they really “won” except a hollow “victory” based on cheating and lies?

People might be interested in a gentleman named Charles-Louis de Secondat, baron de La Brède et de Montesquieu and if they are not familiar with him, look into his role and influence to the founders of and founding of this nation’s government. More importantly look into his discussion of the importance of “virtue” amongst other societal characteristics in a republic versus monarchies and despotic governments. I’m not sure virtue can be described as making up one’s own truths or telling only partial truths when the whole truth totally changes the scene, perception, consideration and deduction taken from a partial truth.

It will be nice to get past all this.

Very best to you.
- Steve__T
  
  Well said and timely. Truth used to be something that was accepted that all of us would always ascribe to, and shun lies and liar’s. One of the most difficult aspects today of interpersonal relationships is dealing with deception in others.
  
  But to see it and call it out for what it is has gone, and now seems acceptable that “you want the truth, you can’t handle the truth” as the norm, or others being apologetic as oh he didn’t mean it that way.
  
  Parents don’t realize that when they get caught in lying to their children they learn that in all that teaching them not to lie was just that.
  
  I remember a time that you could not pay a man of conscious to tell a lie. Now not so much.
  Or is it that its harder to find a man of conscious, who would rather tell the truth, than to lie for any reason.
TomK_in_Boston

You do realize that the attack ads will be over just in time for the holiday shopping ads to begin, right?

“Angels we have heard on high
Sweetly singing buy, buy, buy.”
- hennorama
  
  Don’t forget the ridiculous “War On Christmas” nonsense that Fox et all will begin spewing, if they haven’t already started.
  - 1Brett1
    
    I think the NRA should team with the ‘War On Christmas’ lunatics, with a tag line like, “they’ll have to pry Christmas from our cold, dead hands.”
    - hennorama
      
      Perhaps updating that NRA line from Charlton Heston using Clint Eastwood’s voice?

myblusky

I wish we could bring back all the moderates we’ve lost over the years. The last one being Richard Lugar. The real threat to this country is the extreme division that has taken over the last decade.

The Buddhist have it right – everything in moderation leads to a healthier and happier life and that applies to politics as well.

Why are we punishing the politicians who can compromise and work together by voting them out of office? Don’t we all win when everyone gets something they want?

WorriedfortheCountry

Like Scott Brown?
- J__o__h__n
  
  Scott Brown has gotten concessions from the Democrats on a few votes. Most of the time his votes didn’t matter. If the Republicans gain control the Senate, he will be useless. He has shown no ability to be a moderating influence on the Republican party. His call for the “legitimate rape” candidate to drop out of the race was ignored. His letter to request that the Republican party platform to ban abortion include an exception for rape victims was ignored.
  - WorriedfortheCountry
    
    I am reminded by EJ Dionne’s recent book bemoaning the loss of moderate Senators on both sides of the aisle. Scott Brown is a prototype for the kind of Senator EJ praised in his book.
    
    Then, as this election approaches, EJ endorses the left wing ideologue Elizabeth Warren.
    
    EJ has earned a special place at Hypocrites R US .
    - myblusky
      
      This is ending up just like the fights I think the Senate and Congress need to avoid. The Tea Party grew out of the great divide. They wouldn’t exist if we could find compromise and not punish those who compromise. Secondly – I brought up Richard Lugar and everyone is arguing about Scott Brown! Lugar was a moderate who worked with both parties. I don’t know his stance on abortion – from what I could tell he didn’t get involved in that mess. He was old school – just stick to the major problems and work together.
      
      Anyway – this is a prime example of what I was talking about. I point out the loss of moderation and everyone responding to the posts only confirms it.
    - StilllHere
      
      He didn’t live in Indiana anymore and the voters felt he was out of touch with their issues.
    - myblusky
      
      Most Senators don’t live in their states because they spend all their time in DC where their job is located – plus he was working on a lot of foreign policy. I’m originally from Indiana and I’m pretty sure Lugar was punished for working with Obama and focusing on foreign affairs – of which most Americans can’t seem to grasp the importance.
    - WorriedfortheCountry
      
      Lugar is pro-life. Olympia Snowe quit the Senate this year because of the partisan divide.
      
      60 minutes had a boring piece on the gridlock in the Senate. Watching Reid and McConnell side by side was painful.
      
      I think both sides are trying to exploit wedge issues to keep power. Unfortunately, now tax reform is a wedge issue.
      
      Simpson-Bowles was a missed opportunity of some real reform (although I think it locked in too high a tax rate at 21% of GDP) and it didn’t address our biggest debt driver — health care.
      
      Also, the Tea Party has gotten bad rap in the media. They are painted as extreme. I think that is because they often back budget hawks.
      
      However, the true Tea Party platform — balanced budget, limiting the Federal government to 18%-20% of GDP is not extreme at all.
  - TomK_in_Boston
    
    Scott “nasty Ken doll” Brown showed his true colors in his nasty, no-ideas campaign. I will be very glad to be rid of Nasty Ken. I do not want a Senator who finds common ground with the TeaOP and signs the Norquist “starve the beast” pledge. I want a senator who knows that the #1 priority is fighting back against the righty-oligarch class warfare.
    
    “Vote for me, I’ll negotiate with the terrorists” does not resonate.
  - TomK_in_Boston
    
    Scott “nasty Ken doll” Brown showed his true colors in his nasty, no-ideas campaign. I will be very glad to be rid of Nasty Ken. I do not want a Senator who finds common ground with the TeaOP and signs the Norquist “starve the beast” pledge. I want a senator who knows that the #1 priority is fighting back against the righty-oligarch class warfare.
    
    “Vote for me, I’ll negotiate with the terrorists” does not resonate.

Gregg Smith

“After we win this election, it’s our turn. Payback time. Everyone not with us is against us and they better be ready because we don’t forget. The ones who helped us will be rewarded, the ones who opposed us will get what they deserve. There is going to be hell to pay. �
Congress won’t be a problem for us this time. No election to worry about after this is over and we have two judges ready to go. -Valerie Jarret

Mighty uniting.

1Brett1

Kind of like the attitudes of Republican obstructionists in the last four years?
- Gregg Smith
  
  Yep, this is all their fault. Obama is helpless and feckless. I guess that’s your argument.
TomK_in_Boston

That from some advisor of unknown influence, this from the senate minority leader:

“The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.”

Which do you find more substantive?
- Gregg Smith
  
  So what? The key word is “minority”. It’s not like Harry “this war is lost” Reid. I’m sure Bush would not have been re-elected if not for Democrats in Congress working so hard to help him. Right?
  
  Valerie Jarret has more influence than McConnell.
JGC

That’s from a far right wingnut blog, that advocates everyone “ammo up” in preparation. I doubt Valerie Jarrett said those words.
William

I wonder why she is so angry?
- Gregg Smith
  
  They all are. It’s the most divisive administration in my lifetime. Obama says vote for revenge. He has been yelling so much he has no voice left.
  - William
    
    It is a sad day in American history. The President is calling for “revenge”. How much lower can this guy go?
jefe68

Yes Gregg Smith, and they will coming for you! And your little dog too…Bruhahaha…..

So hide your guns and ammo, or maybe set up road blocks or take to the hills…

JGC

The Miami Dade Florida voting situation is discouraging, after all these years to correct the problems. When do Florida voters get their next chance to throw out the ineffectual Gov. Scott?

TomK_in_Boston

I wouldn’t call him ineffectual, he’s being very effective at trying to steal the election. Reminds me of the civil rights fights in the 60s. With the TeaOP, all the bad things we thought were in the past are back.
- JGC

http://profile.yahoo.com/FSRHPBXUTWE77J62CTPCQTJ6ZI Jill Forman

The gentleman from Tennessee said that Ronmey is “a real American.” So what then is Obama???

1Brett1

Yeah, that caller also said he will vote for Romney instead of Obama because Romney is a “godly man.” I guess he thinks Obama is an ungodly man?
- Mike_Card
  
  He thinks President Obama is a godly woman.
Human898

I never could figure out that notion some Americans have of other Americans, that some of us are real, others are what, fakes? I like to think of it as all of us being American, just we have different views on how best to sustain America as the founders best intended.

Here’s an example of how one signer of the Declaration of Independence put it with regard to the influence of money in government or perhaps society in general as well:

“I cannot help commending the zeal that appears in my countrymen against the power of a King or a House of Lords. I concur with them in all their prejudices against hereditary titles, honour and power. History is little else than a recital of the follies and vices of kings and noblemen, and it is because I dread so much from them, that I wish to exclude them for ever from Pennsylvania, for notwithstanding our government has been called a simple democracy, I maintain, that a foundation is laid in it for the most complete aristocracy that ever existed in the world.”

“In order to prove this assertion, I shall premise two propositions, which have never been controverted: First, where there is wealth, there will be power; and, secondly, the rich have always been an over-match for the poor in all contests for power.”

“These truths being admitted, I desire to know what can prevent our single representation being filled, in the course of a few years, with a majority of rich men? Say not, the people will not choose such men to represent them. The influence of wealth at elections is irresistible. It has been seen and felt in Pennsylvania, and I am obliged in justice to my subject to say, that there are poor men among us as prepared to be influenced, as the rich are prepared to influence them. The fault must be laid in both cases upon human nature. The consequence of a majority of rich men getting into the legislature is plain. Their wealth will administer fuel to the love of arbitrary power that is common to all men. The present Assembly have furnished them with precedents for breaking the Constitution. Farewell now to annual elections! Public emergencies will sanctify the most daring measures. The clamours of their constituents will be silenced with offices, bribes or punishments. An aristocracy will be established, and Pennsylvania will be inhabited like most of the countries in Europe, with only two sorts of animals, tyrants and slaves.”

-Benjamin Rush – 1777 – Bicameralism

NewtonWhale

I used to think The Colbert Report was a parody of right wing blowhards. Romney thinks it’s an instruction manual.
He just said this:

“Tomorrow we begin a new tomorrow!”

hennorama

Colbert’s SuperPac is drolly named “Americans for a Better Tomorrow, Tomorrow.”

It’s an obvious parody of the nonsensical “Americans for a Better Tomorrow, Today.”
SuperPac names can be hilarious. Romney’s absurdly Orwellian temporally challenged “Restore Our Future” is one example, but there are numerous others:

Joe Six PAC

Citizens Against Super PACs Inc.

I Ride Inside – The Pets Against Romney Committee

Why Not ZoidPAC?

Americans for More Rhombus

Patriotic Americans for a More Patriotic and American America

Conservatives for Truth

Sources:

http://theweek.com/article/index/227049/41-annoyingly-ridiculous-super-pac-names

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/76797.html#ixzz2BNUtgu8u

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/awesomely-unusual-super-pac-names/story?id=16857462#

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/elections/campaign-trail/play-super-pac-name-game

Human898

I’m an independent, a former Republican who left when the “neo” influence began to predominate what used to be a Grander Old Party, for all the faults any political party has.

Who is Mitt Romney?

In the 2000 presidential election, Republicans chose George W. Bush, the first president in the history of this nation to hold a Master’s degree in business administration over a guy named John McCain. After 8 years of the George W. Bush MBA leadership and economic policies a projected surplus of (look it up) was turned into a projected deficit of (look it up). For those of you that know your math, while a deficit is a negative number, there is a larger total to a total deficit if on takes into account the total negative is not from zero, but from the positive number above zero. If one starts out with the number 6 and ends up with a -5, the deficit is not -5, but -11.

About as close to the end of 8 years of a Republican administration as any presidential administration could come, on September 18, 2008, the Wall Street Journal headline was “Worst Crisis Since 30′s, No End Yet in Sight” http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122169431617549947.html
Was there no “business experience” (or monkey business) involved in that the worst financial crisis since the first and worst?

So what was the Republican Party solution to that? Mitt Romney? Yes, for those with should memories, he ran for president in 2008, yet for some reason his “successful business experience” was not needed to solve the problems resulting from the “Worst Crisis Since the 30′s” (the worst), the guy who lost the election to the guy in the White House overseeing the “Worst Crisis Since the 30′s” was deemed the better solution than Mitt Romney and all his “success”. What happened to John McCain? Beat again, this time by Barack Obama.

In the four years since Barack Obama took office, the “Worst Crisis Since (the) 30′s (when the worst occurred) continued its nose dive while the Obama administration tried to sort out causes and how to stop the nose dive, even before they could work on solutions for turning things around without heading back into doing all the things that caused the nose dive in the first place. Yes, they did use an opportunity to pass a much needed health care reform bill, one that has been on the minds of Americans for decades. With some concessions to get Republicans to vote or it, it was passed.

Since that time, while sluggish and with setbacks and facing an opposition party that made their “top priority” of business to oust the president they left the worst financial crisis since the first worst, the economy has been stablized with improvement over the worst depths.

Suddenly the political party that handed off the worst financial crisis since the first and worst to the current president says we should be recovered from that by now, it’s not and we’re going to put forth guess who, but the guy that lost to the guy that lost and suddenly his “success” and “business experience” is going to do what the party of the first president with an MBA didn’t do?

Is there something in the drinking water of some Americans?

No, there have been no “Worst Crisis Since 30′s, No End Yet in Sight” headlines as the first four years of this adminstration wind down.

Why on earth would anyone want to choose the party and a candidate that lost to the candidate that lost to the candidate that ended up after 8 years with the second worst financial crisis in the history of this nation on his and his political party’s record?

Bruce94

I agree. You’ve captured the irony better than anyone I’ve read recently. You might want to submit it to The Onion.

I’ve often wondered how it benefited our economy, stature in the world, and civil liberties at home, the last time we had an ex-Governor with lots of private-sector business credentials in the White House.

The critique of Obama as lacking the necessary business & executive experience to function well as President seems superficial when you consider the job performance of the previous occupant of the White House. Judging from George W.’s (the Prodigal Son’s) record, we could just as easily view that alleged flaw in Obama’s resume as an asset.

I still remember Rudy Giuliani strutting to the 2008 GOP Convention podium and mocking Obama’s background as a community organizer. IMHO after being brought to the brink by financial con artists, we could use more community organizers and fewer investment bankers dealing in toxic derivatives or private-equity managers shipping jobs overseas.

workingmandan

We’re hoping that the majority of voting Americans have worked in or know someone that has worked in manufacturing over the past 30 years. They will realize through experience what Romney and others like him have as their agenda — pillaging successful American businesses; i.e. their investor groups buy them up, squeeze a greedy percentage off (Romney calls this “harvesting”), and then either sell off the rest of the assets (the icing on the cake) or abandon them to see if they’re strong enough to rebuild so they can “process” the companies again at a future date.
We began to lose hope regarding this typical wealthy investor strategy in the early 1980′s when an 18% return wasn’t good enough — they had to have 25% or they would begin their “harvesting” (aka pillaging) process.
When will they learn that the myriad of opportunities available with the globalization process could be beneficial to the investors as well as the respective economies IF they moderate their endeavours and move from “pillaging” to “mutually benefitting” by advancing in a moderate and methodical fashion while assessing the risk on socio-economics as effectively as they assess the risks on their portfolios.
A win by Romney will signal that “Greed Rules”.

Bruce94

Despite significant head winds from various sources, the latest jobs report showed considerable headway has been made under Obama & the economy is continuing to improve. The net increase of 171,000 jobs announced last week represented the biggest monthly job gain in 8 months.

Some head winds that were unavoidable & beyond any President’s control:

–increasing globalization & interdependence of the banking system combined with European debt crisis & austerity measures undertaken which have aggravated the decline & contributed to double-dip recession in those countries that adopted austerity (are you Ryan budget deficit chicken hawks paying attention?).

–a recession Obama inherited made worse by collapse of the financial services sector where it began after years of conservative-driven deregulation & tax policy that enabled an insidious financialization of the U.S. economy combined with unprecedented private & public debt overhang that was bound to make recovery slower than any other in most of our lifetimes.

–for those suffering acute Romnesia, when Obama took office an economy that was bleeding 800,000 jobs per month & GDP contracting at 9%. At the time, experts advised Obama that the rate of GDP decline was only 3%, so Obama’s original estimates of recovery rate & size of deficits were understandably over-optimistic.

Some head winds that were inflicted by GOP for perversely partisan gains:

–The American Jobs Act containing proven, bipartisan strategies for creating jobs blocked by the GOP. Experts estimate that unemployment could now be below 7% if the Jobs Act had been passed last year.

–John Boehner succumbing to Tea Party extortion & rejecting the “Grand Bargain”–a bipartisan approach to deficit reduction which put entitlement & discretionary spending cuts on the table in exchange for tax hikes on the wealthiest 2%. A 3-to-1 ratio of spending cuts to tax increases was deemed unacceptable by this extremist iteration of the GOP who feel greater fidelity to Grover Norquist than they do to their Oath of Office or constituents.

–GOP obsession with defending tax breaks for millionaires & special interest loopholes that led to the debt ceiling debacle & U.S. credit downgrade which substantially reduced the rate of recovery and job creation.

Yet, despite these head winds steady progress has been made:

–37 consec. months of GDP growth & 32 consec. months of private-sector job growth resulting in 5 million new jobs.

–532,000 manufacturing jobs created since Feb. 2010.

–1 million jobs saved by auto industry rescue with an est. 190,000 new jobs expected by end of this year marking the first time since 1997 manufacturing jobs were added to economy.

–est. 400,000 teachers kept in classroom & 4,700 police officers hired or kept on the job.

–4 new trade deals est. to increase U.S. exports by $12 billion & create 72,000 new domestic jobs.

The choice tomorrow is between four more years of steady improvement & the possibility of accelerated economic recovery once the radical Tea Party agenda of undercutting the President at any cost is repudiated OR four more years of recycled Bush trickle-down economics & the same policies that crashed the economy four years ago–tax cuts for the wealthy, deregulation for Wall St., and free trade deals that sacrifice U.S. jobs & benefit the multinational corporate elite.

WorriedfortheCountry

Look behind the curtain.

Full time jobs are down 300K and part time jobs are up 1.5M under Obama.

This is a very tepid recovery.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/2512622#.UJgP84b9V8F

Derick_Mickles

Obama and his crew of Communists have got to go. The Polls are so skewed it’s unbelievable. Romney will trounce this KGB Sleeper Cell Plant in less than two days. America is NOT on board with Obama.

jefe68

KGB sleeper cell? Is this an attempt at parody?
- TomK_in_Boston
  
  …a parody or a troll.
  - Derick_Mickles
    
    Ahh, the liberal bigots arrive. Some people don’t share your views, and yet have the protected right to express what they believe. Why don’t you call me a racist or a conspiracy nut, or some other old tired cliche? Liberals have become what they once railed against, and your comment is proof positive.
    
    Now, as for my Sleeper Cell comment, it’s based upon this: Kansas Farmers had enough money to send their daughter to college in Hawaii, to study RUSSIAN? In the early 1960′s? Are you kidding me? Then they also had the money to allow their daughter to Jet Set around the globe while they raised her mulatto baby in the best schools money could buy? None of that fits the history of the time. Yeah, that all passes the smell test.
    
    If you don’t think other governments, including our own engage in spying and sleeper cells then you are woefully ignorant of reality. Kansas dirt farmers in the early 60′s didn’t have a lot of money. Nor were they socially progressive. You must be the sort that studies history while judging it outside of the context of it’s time, and that is why you learn nothing. Good day sir.
    - http://www.facebook.com/people/Renoir-Gaither/615760671 Renoir Gaither
      
      Sleeper cells in the 60′s linked to Obama before he was born? Geez, give us a break, go back to school, read, learn how to form a logical argument, keep quiet and contemplative, stay mentally fit by working on crossword puzzles, take ample naps, go back and read a book, write, learn the difference between communism and capitalism, read Foucault, read critical race theorists, take daily walks, try to stay mentally focused. Good day sir.
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      You’ve resorted to name calling. Are you grasping because you are scared I might be right? You should study Spy Craft. Lord knows I have. His Grandparents were KGB agents. That’s how they got the money.
    - hennorama
      
      What the …? “mulatto?” When was the last time anyone used this derogatory, offensive and unacceptably insulting term? Is your name Gordon W. Epperly, the genius who filed the lawsuit claiming Pres. Obama’s name shouldn’t be on the Alaska 2012 ballot because Pres. Obama “has the race status of being a “mulatto”?
      
      Source:http://thegrio.com/2012/02/23/lawsuit-claims-obama-cant-be-president-because-hes-mulatto/
      
      Please spew your Constitutionally protected fact-free speculative [expletive deleted] screed elsewhere, [expletive deleted].
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      Mulatto is not offensive. In fact it’s the only term to describe someone who is half European and half African by decent. If I don’t use that term what should I use? I’m surely not going to use the term “Oreo Cookie Kid.” That is offensive.
    - hennorama
      
      I am simply going to refer you to today’s On Point topic – “Internet Trolls” – and suggest you go there as Exhibit A.
    - OMA_OPINES
      
      You are truly a bad person.
  - 1Brett1
    
    How ’bout cliched parody of a troll?
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      So anyone with an opinion, based upon legitimate questions is a troll? It is you sir who are trolling here, not I. You can’t tell me that my viewpoint is not legitimate. I am an adult, American, speaking my own mind. My viewpoint is shared by many as well. Instead of insulting me why don’t you address the questions I’ve posed in an adult and civil manner?
    - Ray in VT
      
      Do you have legitimate concerns that the President is a KGB sleeper agent? I would say that your opinion is legitimate in the sense that you may honestly hold it, but I wouldn’t call it valid from the perspective that it is based upon facts if your answer to my question is yes. Having said that, it is great that we live in a country where we are all free to express our opinions as we see fit.
    - 1Brett1
      
      If the answer to your question is “no,” than he is joking; if the answer is “yes,” than, as you say, it is invalid in that it is not based in any facts, but I do hand it to you to even take the trouble to point out the obvious to him.
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      Thank you for your polite reply. Yes, I do have concerns about it and always have. There is plenty of supporting backstory to warrant such a hypothesis. It’s nice to engage with an actual adult here. Thank you.
    - Ray in VT
      
      And thank you for your polite reply. I, like many here, can get snippy or short with people at times, but I do try to avoid doing that as much as possible.
    - 1Brett1
      
      You didn’t pose any questions, for one thing. And, secondly, I wasn’t addressing you.
      
      Besides, when you start out by saying “Obama and his crew of communists…” and then go on to characterize the man as a KGB sleeper cell, you can’t expect to be taken seriously. I would be showing respect if I remarked that you were joking or using some form of satire.
      
      If you are serous in this so-called opinion, then, yes, one might find some nut who also believes such nonsense, but you can’t expect to engage in any serious discussion with such absurd lines of reasoning. Your 7:20pm comment in particular makes leaps of logic (as in governments engage in spying, therefore Obama is a KGB sleeper cell plant) that are laughable at best, pathetically delusional at worst.
hennorama

Derick_Mickles = Irks Me. [Clicked]

(Sorry, I’m on an anagram kick again.)
http://www.facebook.com/people/Renoir-Gaither/615760671 Renoir Gaither

Stop the conservative, racist claptrap. Obama is not a communist, dummy. I really, really, really want to tell you the same thing you told another blogger: Move on with the racism or move out. You’ll do yourself a favor–and the rest of us.
- Derick_Mickles
  
  Racist? That’s really grasping. Nothing I said was racist but you brought that up for seemingly no reason. Tell the truth, you’re a racist aren’t you, and that’s why you project it. Also, calling someone a racist is played out. The Liberal Left has used it so much nobody takes the claims seriously anymore. Welcome to 2012. How are things in 1968? You might want to update your rhetoric.

TomK_in_Boston

I wonder what “Nasty Ken doll” Brown has for future plans? He’s a career pol so it will be hard for him to face getting a real job. I doubt that his ego would allow running for state rep again. Maybe some plutocrat can throw him a few bones, but that’s unlikely since he won’t be able to deliver any nice juicy tax cuts or deregulation or subsidies. Maybe a little modeling for “senior” publications? “Ken”, we hardly knew ye.

jefe68

The man has a law degree. I’m sure there are a lot of doors that will be open to him if he loses tomorrow.

ttajtt

see the papers tv radio are for romney. protect the family money wealthy cuz people of the HUD money.

hennorama

Bill Clinton could get elected again in a heartbeat, if it were legal.

Here’s the “Secretary Of Explaining Stuff’s” speech yesterday, in front of 20,000+ in Bristow, Virginia:

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/Brist

Bubba 2016 – Eight More Years!*
*(Constitutional Amendment Required)

J__o__h__n

If I have to suffer through another interview with an undecided voter, I’m going to scream. I can’t wait until tomorrow so no one will care what these dopes think for three years and nine months.

JGC

Uh oh…Paul Ryan has said his role as vice president would look like Dick Cheney’s under President George W. Bush.

TomK_in_Boston

Does that mean he’ll say “deficits don’t matter”
Ray in VT

I wonder if he views it as within the executive branch of government.
Gregg Smith

Has there ever been a better vice President than Cheney?
- JGC
  
  Gee, now that you mention it…Spiro Agnew? Dan Quayle? I guess if I had to be serious, Lyndon Johnson, Gerald Ford, George H.W. Bush and Al Gore all brought a lot of great qualities to the office of the VP.

TomK_in_Boston

Anyone really want this man to have a nuclear capability?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG4FMOtjwhk

hennorama

I don’t hold anyone’s seemingly goofy religious beliefs against them. One seldom choses one’s religion, after all. And no officeholder can impose their religion on everyone, regardless of how much they may wish to do so. Yes, religious beliefs do influence officeholders, but they are not automatic dealbreakers, IMO.

Just as an example of goofy religious beliefs, the teachers at the religious school I attended as a child once lined everyone up in the parking lot, and asked each of us, in the event of a Soviet invasion, would we renounce our religion to save ourselves, or acclaim our religion and become martyrs. (This was during the Cold War). I knew this was wacko even then, but I still valued them as teachers.

I do however hold a political candidate’s goofy proposed POLICIES against them, since those CAN be imposed on everyone.
- TomK_in_Boston
  
  I hear you, but it’s not so much the belief as the fanatical gleam in the eye of Lord R. Oh well, I suppose he gets just as excited at the prospect of taking over a company, shipping the jobs to China, and looting the pension fund.
  - hennorama
    
    (Ahem) no comment as to looting pensions, nor Mr. Romney’s myriad facial expressions, especially the beatific “I’m just a l’il ol’ angel” expression that his face is so often frozen in.
    
    OK, I guess that really IS a comment.
- Mike_Card
  
  Including a suicide bomber who believes an act of suicide bombing guaratees an eternity in Paradise? I think I’ll continue hold to that goofy religious belief against anyone who espouses it, thank you very much.
  - hennorama
    
    You have a point, albeit a troubling one. How odd that you’d go right to a suicide bomber whereas I was discussing Mr. Romney in particular, and political candidates and officeholders in general. Perhaps that may simply be reflective of your particular worldview – I dunno. Do you see enemies and threats everywhere? Just curious.
- JGC
  
  Wow! Great story!
  - hennorama
    
    Thanks for your response. It was an unusual time, and I doubt my story is unique.
JGC

There is a bit of a back story to this, which I read earlier in the day, but I don’t remember the source. I think Romney was being interviewed in the midwest, and took umbrage to a question about his religion. Now he says that this was secretly recorded on camera, but the radio station says that is not so; there clearly was a camera in place and Romney knew about it. I really don’t understand any of the motivation for or against this little dust-up.
- hennorama
  
  There’s a much longer video of Mr. Romney haraunging the interviewer about some other tenets of Mormonism, even after the interviewer says (paraphrasing here) “Hey I agree with you, Gov’nuh!”
  
  Mr. Romney’s hackles were definitely up. It was simply another example of what Mr. Romney does when he thinks he’s not being recorded, in the same manner as in the infamous “47%” video.
WorriedfortheCountry

YES

JGC

This just in:

Governor Rick Scott has just authorized the Florida National Guard to make an emergency airlift of “excess” voting stations and equipment from Miami Dade, to be sent to the Superstorm Sandy ravaged areas of central New Jersey. “Bless you, Governor Scott,” said Mindy Hornbeck, as she paused from the grooming of her horse at the Somerset County Stables. “All my attention must be rightly focussed on our upcoming Peapack Thanksgiving Fox Hunt; I was quite frightened I might be delayed several minutes waiting in line so as to cast my vote tomorrow. This will assist us greatly as we strive to return to our accustomed way of life.”

Steve__T

I’m not going to reply to that because it sickens me and I find the attitude reprehensible. take a look at this. You’ll know why.

http://www.democracynow.org/2012/11/5/we_need_help_battered_by_sandy

Steve__T

This just in:

A nor’easter taking shape Monday in the Gulf of Mexico is expected to
begin its march up the coast, eventually passing within 50 to 100 miles of the wounded New Jersey coastline on Wednesday. The storm was expected to bring winds of up to 55 mph, coastal flooding, up to 2 inches of rain along the shore, and several inches of snow to Pennsylvania and New York.

But this is the part that kills me;
Mayor Bloomberg:
“When Sandy was coming in, all the signs said that we were going to have a very dangerous, damaging storm, and I ordered a mandatory evacuation of low-lying areas, something that a lot of people don’t like to hear,”
he said. “In this case, we don’t think that it merits that. It is a different kind of storm; the wind is coming from a different direction.”

Hes a weather expert now.

But the real weather experts say nor’easter’s are no joke.

1Brett1

Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago? How’s your 401K doing?

http://www.facebook.com/diepiriye Diepiriye Sungumote Kuku-Siemo

I guess that Romney does have a lot of white solidarity voters. While Mr. Obama has huge Black support, his party had that anyway, and his ascension only catapulted that support. But the real danger is white solidarity which has always meant the annihilation of others historically, and the hate mongering against Obama is frightening. Conversely, Black solidarity has always implied mass empowerment. So when I hear the coded langage of white supremacy, I am really scared. Take their country back from who?

pete18

Does that mean that you think the white voters who pulled the lever for Obama in 2008 have become racists in four years time? Or do you think, just maybe, given the fact that unemployment is higher now than when Obama took office, that it’s more likely that they don’t like the job he’s doing?

Crazy thought I know, but have you considered that?
- Steve__T
  
  You ever heard a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch? Did you even read his post? Why are you putting words in to what he said by saying does that mean you think.
  
  Crazy thought I know, but have you considered that that may be taken as offensive?
  - pete18
    
    I didn’t read his comments as referring to a few bad apples. I took it as a broad brush assessment of two groups of people, which I found offensive and not very thoughtful.
Derick_Mickles

The United States has done more to address it’s past of slavery than any other nation in history. It puchased a nation, Liberia, fought the bloodiest war in it’s history, fought for Civil Rights, and elected a minority President. By your logic the Egyptians should still be paying Jewish People for enslaving them. Perhaps you’d like to move to another nation, perhaps Russia, and see if you get a more accommodating society there? The Debt of Slaver in the USA has been payed many times over. It’s over, and done. Move on, or move out is my best advice.
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Renoir-Gaither/615760671 Renoir Gaither
  
  No, the slavery debt in the US has never been paid. Sorry. It’s not over and done. And don’t tell anyone to move on or move out. That in itself is a racist comment. I don’t have time to explain it to a racist like you, but you’ll need to read more to find out. Begin with Critical Race Theory. Your logic ignores years of disenfranchisement–and any gains were and are being chipped away. The slave history of the U.S. did NOT end with the Civil War. We’re not in a post-racial moment. Stop the racist, move on or move out denigration. White supremacist views and structural racism are alive and well.
  - Derick_Mickles
    
    Half a million dead, an entire NATION bought and paid for, untold numbers in lock-step and action with black people, billions and billions in race-based grants and social programs, a majority white nation electing a minority as their Commander & Chief. Buddy, it’s payed. It’s done. Ask for more, but it’s not going to happen. I don’t see many nations doing this anywhere else, and yet the only reply to this issue is “more, more, more.” Well, you not going to get anymore. Show me one other nation that’s done this much. Just ONE! The types that do this sort of ranting about how “this nation hasn’t done enough” are just interested in supremacy for themselves, not equality. The debt is payed with a cherry on top my friend. It’s time for you and others who advocate what you do to start saying “thank you” instead of “give me more.” Ungrateful.
    - libraryshortcake
      
      Whoa, you seriously need a lesson in race, class, and gender privilege. So, why do you think that African-Americans are disproportionately filling our prisons, dropping out of school, becoming single moms, and turning to crime or the lowest paying jobs or turning to social services for help?
      
      Do you honestly think they are just meaner or stupider or morally inferior or lazy?
      Or do you think this has ANYTHING to do with the legacy of slavery, Jim Crow, and hundreds of years of disenfranchisement and racism?
- Steve__T
  
  You are the worst at hiding your racism. It aint over not by a long shot when people like yourself have the nerve to call the President a Communist and tell someone to move out. And you think that a few years has made hundreds of years of oppression anger and desperation all good? Not when there are still people like you, full of hate and bitter anger. And don’t get me wrong hate goes both ways, and until you stop neither will they.
  - Derick_Mickles
    
    It’s not hate. It’s fact. The only anger I feel is at people like you who think the President is some kind of King. Well, he’s not. He’s just a SERVANT of the people, and I find your “nerve” at portending that he’s above scrutiny frightening. Personally, I think Obama is lower than shark _ _ _ _ and it’s my protected right to say so. You must not be an American, because you sure don’t understand the attitude that built this great nation. Russia or China may be more to you liking as well.
    - 1Brett1
      
      You confuse your opinion with fact, and you just called Steve T not an American for his views. You have expressed that it is your right to post your drivel, which is true, but then you call to have others’ comments deleted because they express their opinion….You seem to be the new troll in town, or a recycled old one.
    - Derick_Mickles
      
      He used an internet term involving the F-word to address another person here. He broke the rules. Plain and simple.
    - 1Brett1
      
      You just used “F-word.” Did you also break the rules? You have issues beyond this forum…what’s disappointing is that just about the time one gets used to the trolls on here, another one (you) comes along. How would you like to be a good American and go “express” yourself and exercise your rights somewhere else? I’d appreciate it.
    - Steve__T
      
      You have no Idea of who I am.
      I am a Veteran who enlisted not drafted, during the Viet Nam war to protect this country and to give you the rights you enjoy so freely.
      Have you served this country?
      I received an Honorable Discharge for my services, I guarded the western WH I did not agree with the policies of President Nixon but would have taken a bullet for him out of respect for his office and title, and as my duty to my country as our elected leader, your capitalization of servant, or as you put it just a servant, says a lot, and holds more than distain for his policy’s. I personalty don’t think hes doing a great job but I wont disrespect his position as the leader of our country why, because I am always first an AMERICAN. And no matter who wins this election, will be My president and I will defend them with all I have because I am first, an AMERICAN and will always love this country and what it stands for. I have been to Japan, Viet Nam the China sea and all over the Pacific Ocean. Where have you been to protect the freedoms that you enjoy? You who question if I am American.
      You want to hate me fine, I fought for your right to do so, but just so you know, you hate an American.
William

So you are proud of Obama’s “Revenge” comment? This is what the President of the USA should be saying? No hate there huh?
- Steve__T
  
  No hate calling President Obama a communist? Is that the way you respect The highest office in America? STFU
  - Derick_Mickles
    
    Obama has Communist ties, and an undisclosed past. Remember his comment to the Russian President? “I’ll have more leeway…” There is a factual evidence to support such a theory. Obama’s “Revenge” comment was not only unpresidential but it begs the question: “Revenge for what?” Providing you a life your African Communist Father who ran out on you couldn’t? Respect is earned, not given, and the President is a public servant, not a king. Your name calling is telling, and against the rules of this forum. Your post should be deleted.
    - libraryshortcake
      
      You are so misinformed that it’s hard to even take this seriously. Obama supporters were booing Romney and Obama stopped them! He said voting is the best revenge meaning don’t boo, if you are against Romney, just vote against him. You’re grasping at straws here to blow that out of proportion. And clearly you’re grasping at other conspiracy theorist, disproven, absurd straws in other ways… a communist? An undisclosed past? LOL! He’s a capitalist democrat who was born in the good old U. S. of A. Are you actually Donald Trump using a fake name?
    - J__o__h__n
      
      Russia is still Communist? I thought Reagan single-handedly won the Cold War for us.
- NewtonWhale
  
  OMG! I don’t think I’ve ever heard a more hate filled, vicious remark! Obama must be some kind of fiend to think of using “revenge” like that!
  
  Oh, wait…
  - Ray in VT
    
    Yeah, that revenge comment was pretty terrible. Just like when he put out that map with the gun sight over people they were targeting. Oh, wait…
    - Gregg Smith
      
      Don’t be silly Ray.
      
      http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/palin-target-graphic-in-perspective/
    - Ray in VT
      
      So it’s not bad because everybody’s been doing it? Now that’s just as silly as the whole revenge thing or calling the President an apologist for saying things like how America has and continues to struggle with the legacies or slavery, segregation or the treatment of Native Americans.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      It’s a non-issue. Giffords was shot by an insane apolitical nut.
    - Ray in VT
      
      Who said anything about Gabrielle Giffords? As a responsible and safety minded gun owner, I think that it is extremely inappropriate to put crosshairs over people and to talk about targeting them. It’s still more of an issue than Obama’s “voting is the best form of revenge” quote.
  - Gregg Smith
    
    Which President has used it in reference to Americans getting revenge on other Americans?
    - Ray in VT
      
      I know, the guy is calling for blood. To make matters worse, he told people not to boo and to vote right before that.
      
      You don’t scare hardworking Americans just to scare up some votes.
    - NewtonWhale
      
      Don’t clutch those pearls too tightly, Gregg, they just might break.
      
      So are you a birther, too, like Romney?
      
      “Now I love being home, in this place where Ann and I were raised, where both of us were born,” Mitt Romney said a campaign event in Michigan.
      
      “Ann was born in Henry Ford Hospital, I was born in Harper Hospital. No one’s ever asked to see my birth certificate; they know that this is the place where both of us were born and raised,” Romney said.
      http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/08/24/romney_no_ones_ever_asked_to_see_my_birth_certificate.html

Gregg Smith

President Obama said this today:

“We tried our ideas. They worked. The economy grew. We created jobs. Deficits went down. We tried their ideas. They didn’t work. The economy didn’t grow, not as many jobs, and the deficit went up. But here’s the thing. Governor Romney’s a very talented salesman, and in this campaign he’s tried as hard as he can to repackage the same old bad ideas and make ‘em out to be new ideas and try to convince you that he’s all about change. Listen, we know what change looks like, Madison.”

Will someone please spin this for me? He said “deficits went down”. That’s a bald faced lie. Where am I wrong?

pete18

I think it’s very difficult to argue against this op-ed, which sums up the complete failure of Obama’s first term, no matter how you measure it:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2012/11/05/barack-obama-benghazi-libya-election/1680697/
kristineBosmke

He’s using the “We” as in “Democrats” as in “Under Bill Clinton”. For Democrat like me, when he’s talking about “same old bad ideas” that’s code for Bush economic policies, deficit hikes, and trickle down math. I do agree with the President and the GOA that Romney/Ryan’s numbers for tax breaks do not add up and that we as a society – across all economic levels – are just going to have to deal with some hard realities.
hennorama

Right here:

Federal Deficits in CONSTANT (FY 2005) DOLLARS, AND AS PERCENTAGES OF GDP: [in Billions of Dollars]

YEAR DEFICIT % of GDP

2009 -$1,274.4 -10.1%2010 -$1,153.0 – 9.0%2011 -$1,127.6 – 8.7%2012 -$1,123.1 – 8.5%(estimated)

This assumes that all of the deficit for 2009 would be attributed to Pres. Obama, which is far from accurate.

Source: http://www.whitehouse.gov/site…or http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/… Table 1.3
- Gregg Smith
  
  I gotta hand it to you, you spun it. If I first triple my caloric intake and then replace one soda a day with a diet soda, am I on a diet?
  
  2009 is Obama’s, all of it. He was in charge the whole year with Democrat majorities. He passed Obamacare and “Stimulus”. He also implemented half of TARP. A little context:
  
  2004 – 427.9 (Bush’s highest deficit a bit over a third of Obama’s lowest)
  2005- 318.3
  2006 – 239.7
  2007 – 151.0 (the last Republican controlled budget)
  2008 -415.7
  2009 -1274.4
  
  Obama said his way worked and the “same ol policies” failed. In that context he did not lower deficits.
  - hennorama
    
    Deficits have indeed come now during the Obama administration. This is factual, but really not worth wasting much time on.
    
    As I’ve said repeatedly, it’s absurd to attribute everything that occurs during a particular time period to one President or another, or one political party or another. Obviously, there is overlap, since policies and laws do not simply all end on the day a President leaves office, and new ones do not all suddenly start on Inauguration Day for the next President. Same thing for any Congressional term.
    
    Therefore, one cannot attribute the entire 2009 Federal deficit to Pres. Obama and his policies. In the same way, the 2001 Federal surplus cannot be attributed to Pres. Bush II. Remember, policies and circumstances during Pres. Bush II’s admin. resulted in 8 straight deficits, which he also promised wouldn’t happen.
    
    As a reminder, the following is from a prior response to you:
    
    “Not speaking for Pres. Obama here, but I believe that when he referred to previous things that “weren’t paid for” (wars, tax cuts, Med. Pt. D) he refers to the PAY/GO concept that used to be law. It expired at the end of 2002. In 2003, as you said, there were tax cuts, and Med. Pt. D was enacted. These did not comply with PAY/GO, but the Bush White House said they would “ensure fiscal discipline” and get back to a balanced budget. This never happened. There were deficits every year from 2002 thru 2008.”
    
    And this, too, responding to you previously:
    
    “Can we agree that Federal programs and policies do not all suddenly begin or end on the day a President is inaugurated or leaves office? There is overlap and underlap, for a variety of reasons.
    
    If the above is true, it makes it almost impossible to accurately measure and attribute every single item of Federal revenue or outlay to any individual President.
    
    And if this is true, then why waste time on the whole argument of “Such and such occured during Pres. (insert your choice here)’s time in office, so he did all of this, and it did this to the deficit and debt and he’s 100% to blame for the mess we’re in now!” ?”
    
    OK? Let’s just let this comparison thing go.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      I’m not comparing so much as I am accusing Obama of lying. He tripled the deficit the first year and has topped a trillion in each of his other 3. That’s up not down.
      
      The wars WERE paid for.
      
      Obama owns this so no, we can’t agree.
    - Ray in VT
      
      Except that he didn’t triple it, as the debt and deficit began to balloon in the months prior to his election and between the election and the inauguration. It has also decreased during the past 3 years, and, while still uncomfortably high, it has still gone down from that shock in 2008-2009.
      
      The wars were not paid for, unless you call deficit spending paying for it. In that case it was paid for by borrowing money, but it was not paid for by adding the revenue that the wars were costing us.

Gregg Smith

Polls in several key states close at 7, 7:30 and 8PM. If Ohio Florida, Pennsylvania and a few others are called early (for either side) it’s over.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Renoir-Gaither/615760671 Renoir Gaither

There are people on this blog who really want to make this race a “racial thing.” Was it ever really different over the course of the last four years? The U.S. will never slough off its racist past, and the longer the race conversation is stepped around and placed in the solitary cell called “post-racial” the more this social problem will persist. Many social institutions perpetuate it (church, included); political parties capitalize on it; individuals use it as an excuse for intellectual laziness. Racism, like all superstitions, feeds at the trough of ignorance, generation after generation. Anyway, we’ll see plenty expressions of it tomorrow. Maybe we can collectively construct a straw man effigy for racism and burn it once a year?

libraryshortcake

Yesterday in Boston there were two men (one black, one white, incidentally) out in a touristy area holding a sign with a picture of Obama as Hitler (moustache) and holding a petition to impeach Obama. If this goes down in Boston I can only imagine the hate speech in the red states…
- StilllHere
  
  Which one was the racist?
  - Ray in VT
    
    Probably or possibly neither. Hilariously un/misinformed: probably both. And who would be the most angered by such a display? Likely Adolf Hitler for being compared to someone whom he would consider to be sub-human.
  - libraryshortcake
    
    Good question… I was responding more generally to Renoir’s mention of “ignorance, generation after generation.” I just found it to be baffling and extreme- SO disgustingly offensive especially to Jews, inaccurate in that Obama is a rather centrist capitalist democrat and nowhere near a fascist genocidal dictator. I was surprised that an African American man, aware of the legacy of racism in this country would flagrantly brandish something so offensive, but hey, I don’t know either of the guys and can’t imagine where they were coming from.
    - Gregg Smith
      
      http://www.google.com/search?q=bush+hitler&hl=en&client=safari&tbo=u&rls=en&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=OpSZUNuKIsig0gGTvYCwBA&ved=0CC4QsAQ&biw=1280&bih=738
    - libraryshortcake
      
      That’s appalling and offensive too. Does anyone think that it’s okay to depict Obama as Hitler just because some other bozos depicted Bush that way in the past?
    - Steve__T
      
      Gregg Smith and several others. I personally don’t like some of Pres Obama’s
      actions but I do blame the greater mess on the whole congress and senate on the position we are in today.

1Brett1

This is what Romney supporters look like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY0M7IdNl7U

Ray in VT

That image makes her look a bit like a female Doc Brown. Great scot!
ttajtt

the free hand outs, like over weight people and they still don’t lose the weight. he’s not better off white side showing.

Derick_Mickles

Once Obama is out of office, he should be thrown in jail for not making a budget for 4 years. It’s a criminal act under federal law.

NewtonWhale

He has submitted a budget each February.
You can see them all here:

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/browse/collection.action?collectionCode=BUDGET&browsePath=Fiscal+Year+2012&isCollapsed=false&leafLevelBrowse=false&isDocumentResults=true&ycord=499

No budget? No problem! The strange politics behind a budgetless America.

President Obama has proposed a federal budget. Congress looks sure to ignore it, and Senate Democrats show no desire to pass any budget. It would be the fourth straight budgetless year.

“Congress is legally required to consider a budget resolution every year, but there’s no penalty for not doing it, and no one has any standing to sue,” says Stan Collender, a longtime congressional budget analyst with Qorvis Communications in Washington.

The lack of a budget plan for the past three years has exacerbated America’s fiscal problems because, for three years, Congress has not passed a roadmap to bring spiraling deficits under control. Mr. Obama has made proposals that have been ignored.”

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2012/0214/No-budget-No-problem!-The-strange-politics-behind-a-budgetless-America
Steve__T

Yes lets lock up the republican congress who blocked the budgets that were sent to them, in good faith for the American public that the swore an oath to. To do their jobs and take care of there constituency to the best of their ability.

Which IMO doesn’t mean say NO to everything. There is a thing called compromise.

ttajtt

I do like bushes budget of bottomless charge it. bills in the mail homeless charger. dam guy

DrewInGeorgia

“Tomorrow, we begin a new tomorrow. Tomorrow, we begin a better tomorrow. This nation is going to begin to change for the better tomorrow,” he told the crowd of over 3,000 people. “Your work is making a difference. The people of the world are watching. The people of America are watching. We can begin a better tomorrow tomorrow, and with the help of the people in Florida, that’s exactly what’s going to happen.”

We can begin a better tomorrow tomorrow, to hell with today.

Tomorrow, tomorrow, I love you, tomorrow. You’re always a day away.

Ray in VT

Did that also make you think of Stephen Colbert?
- DrewInGeorgia
  
  YES! That was the first thing that popped into my head! A Better Tomorrow Tomorrow. I lol’d
  - Ray in VT
    
    Colbert played a clip last night and looked pretty happy about it.
nj_v2

Just beat me to it. This is what i was going to post:

Max/Mitt Headroom/Romney confirms attainment of full, self-parody status:”Tomorrow, we begin a better tomorrow”http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/wp/2012/11/05/romney-tomorrow-we-begin-a-better-tomorrow/Inadvertent channelling of—or clueless theft of—tagline (a la “Clear eyes, full hearts…” from Friday Night Lights creator [http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/friday-night-lights-creator-accuses-378606]), in this case, from Colbert’s Americans for a Better Tomorrow, Tomorrow”?Can’t make this s**t up.What a tool.
Gregg Smith

Hear hear.

Gregg Smith

For what it’s worth, turnout was low when I voted this morning here in NC.

J__o__h__n

I had a bit of a wait at 7:25 in Boston. Four years ago the line went down the street, but they were better organized this year and divided us into wards outside, so I couldn’t really compare turnout (and the line moved faster). People at work were complaining about long waits.
- Gregg Smith
  
  I’m not sure what it all means. Both sides say turnout is everything.
JGC

Early voting in NC, so people didn’t have to wait until today?
Steve__T

I voted on Friday no long lines and was done quickly, less than 30 min, the big pulse I walked the four blocks and got my morning exercise.

libraryshortcake

Oh yes indeed- I agree with the caller that Romney believes god created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve (euphemism for anti-gay rights) and that he’s against killing babies (euphemism for aiming to overturn Roe v. Wade). Hopefully a majority of Americans respect the separation between church and state, and are not homophobic and misogynistic.

228929292AABBB

Interesting that you are the poster who wanted to see the level of debate elevated above the offensive in your comment below. To imply, as you unquestionably have, that one must be homophobic and misogynistic to vote for Romney is offensive. To imply that a person who is troubled by abortion must be a misogynist is to dismiss compassion as a form of hate. It’s a pity, because the idea is that liberals are more open-minded but as we see here many of them just subscribe to a different flavor of hatred.
- libraryshortcake
  
  Clarification: the caller in question said he thought Romney would win because he (Romney) believes god created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve, and that he (Romney) is against killing babies. The former comment is an oft recycled homophobic saying, offensive not only to gays but to those who support gay rights. The latter is clearly pointing to a pro-life stance and belief that life begins at conception- clearly neither candidate is okay with literally killing babies, after the baby emerges from the womb. BOTH points were stated in incendiary way by the caller, and both are rooted in religious beliefs, in a country that has a separation of church and state.
  
  I meant what I said in my last sentence: “Hopefully a majority of Americans respect the separation between church and state, and are not homophobic and misogynistic.” I do hope that’s true.I did not say that a Romney voter is by default homophobic or misogynistic. I respect that some voters have religious beliefs that inform their voting choices. Fine. I do too, in fact!To be less offensive, the caller could have said he believes Romney will win because he does not support gay marriage and he takes a pro-life stance, and the majority of Americans will vote for him because they are in agreement. Instead he chose to use the language he did, which was indeed homophobic, and seems to imply that Obama voters are “baby killers” which is also offensive.

J__o__h__n

I think the vote will be 291 to 247. For the swing states, I’m calling NH, FL, NC, and CO for Mitt and VA and OH for Obama. I don’t see MI, PA, NV, and WI as swing states.

J__o__h__n

It looks like I was overly pessimistic about a few states. I’m ok with being slightly wrong in that direction.

libraryshortcake

and an afterthought… someone may not support gay rights and may be “troubled by abortion” for totally non-religious reasons. Still, they must decide whether their stance on these issues informs their voting decision, and also whether they believe the government should have a role in restricting the rights of other citizens who may have differing beliefs and viewpoints, in our diverse country.

Steve__T

dumb disqus,

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