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David Denby: The End of Movies?

The New Yorker’s David Denby on the future life – or death – of the movies.

A poster for the upcoming movie Sharknado. (The Asylum)

A poster for the upcoming movie Sharknado. (The Asylum)

Have American movies gone to the dogs?  New Yorker film critic David Denby – one of the biggest voices in the country when it comes to film – says yes.  Not all.  Not always.

But the movies as a vital national touchstone of what matters in human affairs, in human nature, are in deep trouble, he says.  The new economics of cinema bring us empty, big-budget, souped-up spectacle.  “A thundering farrago,” writes Denby, “of verbal and visual gibberish.”

This hour, On Point:  The New Yorker’s David Denby asks – do the movies have a future?

-Tom Ashbrook


David Denby, staff writer and film critic at The New Yorker. He’s the author of Do the Movies Have a Future?

From Tom’s Reading List

IndieWire “There are certainly some valid reasons for pessimism. We just escaped a particularly dreary summer movie season. Actual film — light captured on and then projected through celluloid — is vanishing at an disturbing rate. 3-D is still darkening theater screens and emptying patrons’ pockets. Our children’s notion of “the movies” will look completely different than ours. ”

The Guardian “There’s been a lot of death-of-film talk recently, as there often is when the first leaves of fall bid their first, golden adieus. “I’m made crazy by the way the business structure of movies is now constricting the art of movies,” fumed David Denby in The New Republic after a summer which steamrolled one action blockbuster after another into a single strip of blurry, brazen fury.”

Variety “Its biggest star, George Clooney, is simply a co-producer and its protagonist (Ben Affleck, who also directs) never does anything heroic except negotiate. So “Argo” is clearly not so much a hit as an accident. Or is it?”


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“Hand Covers Bruise” from The Social Network by Trent Reznor & Atticus Ross

“There Will Be Blood” from There Will Be Blood by Jonny Greenwood

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  • Wm_James_from_Missouri

    Too many bang, bang, shoot-em ups and too much unnecessary cursing and just plain dumb plots with far too many holes in the story line. While we are on the subject of movies and the like, I want to know what happened to all the great things that were supposed to happen with DVD’s ?

    Here is a simple suggestion, why not allow the viewers to place their mouse cursor on top of an actor to get their name and maybe a bio, as the film is running ! You could do this type of information loading on anything, including background buildings, artwork, books, cars, etc.. This would allow an interactive in depth look at persons, places and things. This would add multidimensional properties and increase interest.

    _If you were watching a movie about World War 2, for example, in the extras section, a viewer could read an historical synopsis of the war, for example.
    _If you were watching a Sci-Fi thriller about a machine gone wild, the studio could attach a program that you could download to your computer, that did some of the things that the machine did on screen, thereby allowing the film industry to launch new computer programs into the marketplace.
    _My goodness, use some imagination, will you ? I think you will find that, “Somewhere over the rainbow”, that the sky is the limit ! ( Actually the Universe is the limit, but I am trying to ease you into this. Ya know, sometimes I feel like I am talking to an internet firewall . )

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    See TVTropes.org for the full story, but this is an example of a moive that is “Exactly What It Says on the Tin.”  Enough said, indeed, and I won’t be watching it.

    As always, a lot of popular “art” is trash.  Who is surprised?  Give it enough time to ferment, and it’ll become a cult classic.

  • ToyYoda

    Certainly going to movies is not as enjoyable as I remember.  People think because they aren’t talking on their cellphones, it’s perfectly okay to check their cellphones, but don’t realize the shiny screen distracts.

  • AC

    it bothers me that there seems to be so many big-budget remakes or continuation of a specific series. why aren’t we investing in young, new filmakers and ideas? we’re going to lose our lead with such stagnant, safe investments in this industry….

    • Gregg Smith

      I am writing the soundtrack for a small budget short film. The idea is to bundle three 30 minute films together and show them in theaters. The money behind it thinks the format will better suit our short attention spans. The producer owns the rights to the works of French writer Guy Maupassant. The first one (A Bedtime Story) has been shot and is in the editing process. Maupassant is long dead but the vision, youth and passion of the crew are fresh.

  • RolloMartins

    So the movies are going the way of Broadway? How ironic.

  • RolloMartins

    Iran, Korea, Israel, Japan, Turkey: these will all have great cinematic efforts in the next ten years. Hollywood? Meh.

  • brettearle

    If any of us had the time to peruse the New York Times movie ads, over the last 1,2,4,7 years, we would find many, many independent films and foreign films and even some American [Hollywood] feature films that would be worth our while.

    I would argue that some Films suffer for lack of advertising and distribution.

    The film reviewers are ignoring this fact–because they, too, don’t have the time nor the inclination to review lesser known flicks.

    The pressure is for them to review cinema that has wider publicity.

    The notion that we are facing a faltering medium is, I think, an overstatement.

    Basically, we’re dealing with a dumbing-down Blockbuster syndrome mentality.

  • ttajtt

    you could make one

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

    Star Wars VII on its way – when people cringed on the last 3. That pretty much sums it up.

  • Rex Henry

    Six movies, Two categories, Two words:
    Star. Wars.

  • ToyYoda

    By the way, Cloud Atlas was a pretty good flick, although the time transcendence things isn’t very convincing and took away from the flick, but it was still enjoyable.

    If films are on the decline, maybe that would force studios to make better written and directed films.  It might also mean that unknown actors and actresses who are just as talented as the big name stars will get a chance on the silver screen.  And big name actors will have to take a paycut just like the rest of us.  This all seems like good news to me.

  • J__o__h__n

    If the theaters want people to go to the movies, throw people out for talking, texting, and phoning.  I also hate sitting through all the ads if I want to get a good seat. 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

    People keep forgetting that Sturgeon’s law applies to movies, as well. A bad movie is a bad movie even in 3d.

    The big issue is the lower cost of technology verses the rising costs of everything else – why spend $20/person to sit in a run down theater on a possibly good movie when you can watch an endless film library on a slightly smaller screen at home?

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      Don’t you mean Preston Sturges?

      Unless “Sturgeon’s Third Law” is “Sometimes you’re the bear, sometimes your the salmon”.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

        The usual presentation of Sturgeon’s Law is “ninety percent of everything is crap.”

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

          (I know; I was trying to deadpan in a joke on an old-time director who’s a particular favorite of mine.)

  • http://www.facebook.com/sailortitan Katherine Isham

    I think it’s unfortunate that movies are dumbed down for foreign and young audiences, because I don’t feel that that’s necessary. I know that I became a fan of anime in the 1990s and early naughts, in my teens, and this is a visual medium that almost always takes place in a foreign locale (Japan) with lots of references to elements of Japanese culture that no westernern is going to get off the bat. Some of these films, particularly those of Miyazaki or Kon, are very complex and “serious” as well. I think that film producers underestimate the reach of foreign films and try to take out their “foreigness” when no such thing is necessary.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

      Foreign audiences? You mean the ones that read and generally speak more than one language?

  • Rex Henry

    So I guess this explains why movies are judged by how much money was made instead of the number of people who actually saw them.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      Another side effect: A big-money star is shoehorned into scenes their character doesn’t belong in, because what’s the point of spending the money when the audience isn’t getting as much as possible of the name above the title?

      (Exceptions exist, but they are few. And the more “middlebrow” and less “artsy” a movie aims to be, the more likely it is to hew to this idea.)

  • Jack Acme

    The odd thing is that the production tools for making movies have never been cheaper or more accessible. “Beasts of the Southern Wild” is a great example of this. P. T. Anderson wants to make hugely expensive movies (historical settings, 70mm film, big stars) but if he used a contemporary setting, digital photography, and less expensive actors he could do it all for a few paltry millions.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    O.K., there are a lot of bad movies.  What’s the cause?

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Julia Roberts?  Myeh.  I was never a fan.

  • Shannon Mullen

    Could David expound more on the Tentpole  business model that’s driving Hollywood, and whether he sees the rise of Ticket prices and the smartphone as among The biggest threats to theaters and the movies as we’ve known them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/stephen.reynolds.1650 Stephen Reynolds

    The Avengers was excellent. Just because nobody had cancer or spoke French doesn’t make dumb or for the masses. What elitist dreck.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Master and Commander is an excellent film.  Part of that is because of the placement in a time and location, as Denby said.

  • sam

    I just saw “win win” and I really liked it.
    I do generally prefer indie comedy/drama flicks.

    I saw “skin” and that was really good.
    But I didn’t care much for “hugo” or “the informant”

    I also liked “hanna” and that is a fighting kicking kind of flick.
    The “better life” was really really good too.
    And “little miss sunshine” – it was hilarious.

    I don’t think movies are dead or going to be dying any time soon.
    There are still a lot of really good indie movies are making made.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

    Mindless drivel plays well for people constantly on their phones or texting – you can start and stop watching wherever you want and really doesn’t make any difference.

  • donny_t

     Wait, he’s talking about movies for “grown ups” but “grown up” movies are just movies with older protagonists; something that the guest can relate to. The same is true when you have big budget movies that teens and kids can relate to. The point is: we all like things we can relate to. Look at the Academy Awards. Most of the winners are movies for older audiences (the bulk of the Academy ARE older audiences) Why are there no more “grown up” movies? He said himself earlier, most grown ups don’t even Go to the movies unless it had a good review or a friend suggested it. So there’s no money in “grown up” movies because grown ups don’t go to the movies. If you want more grown up movies, get grown ups to go to the movies more.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Whatever happened to the dollar theaters?  In the nineties, I’d watch a lot of films in those several months after the release.

  • http://www.facebook.com/emily.h.lacroix Emily Harvey Lacroix

    Transformers, and new Star Wars, want to sell toys, not just tickets, which makes it worse.

    Yes, please give 15-25 year-olds a little more credit.

  • sam

    I really enjoyed “crazy heart” and that was an oscar winner for best male role and i think it had a big budget?

    what about “winter’s bone” and “true grit”? SO SO good!

  • http://www.facebook.com/emily.h.lacroix Emily Harvey Lacroix

    The Avengers is about building a team. A team on which people with diverse talents, which some even see as curses, make misfits into heros.

  • Unterthurn

    Could not agree more with your guest. 

    It seems that one has to watch foreign films to get the intelligential entertainment that I desire. I no longer go to movie theaters because it is just too expensive to be into a film and leave in the middle due to boredom. Also renting movies has been getting to be a big downer, too. 

    Don’t know if you have it right with big industry, but creativity is poorer then ever in the main stream movie and music industry. There have been so many good PBS and BBC documentaries that are just a story waiting for the making. France and India are fighting about who will come out with the story about the Spy Princess from WWII. I can’t wait to see that.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

    12 Angry Men – can you imagine a movie shot today in basically a single room that would hold anyone’s attention?

  • http://www.facebook.com/jim.castronovo Jim Castronovo

    Super-delux expresso maker at home instead of a local cafe experience…

    A wonderuful leather-interior automobile taking you from one place to another, ignoring the public realm in between…

    A flat-screen, thin-screen, wide-screen TV allowing you full theatre experience in the comfort of your couch.

    In the 21st century many of us have the ‘things’ but a lot of us are missing the ambience, the journey, and the social fabric from which those things orginated.

  • sam

    “inception” was good.
    and so was “district 19″ and “moon”

    There are a lot less good sci-fi movies being made.

  • Jason Vicente

    It appears to me that the area of film making suffering most in our generation is the comedy.  I can only think of a handful of good funny films in the last decade (Crazy Stupid Love).  Instead we are fed films focused on being shocking rather than truly funny – like Hangover or any Shandler or Ferrell movie.

  • http://www.facebook.com/michele.corkery Michele Corkery

    I think the issue is that Americans don’t go to see independent films. I think of The Road and Blue Valentine or even Man on a Wire. Amazing films. And how about the Miyazaki movies for kids. They all give Pixar a run for their money.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Isn’t there a bias of perspective here?  Look at all the movies ever made.  We watch only the older movies that are worth saving these days, whereas current films haven’t had time to get sorted.

  • http://www.facebook.com/michele.corkery Michele Corkery

     Never understood the appeal of Hangover! I just put Crazy Stupid Love on my “movies to see” list.

  • Scott B

    I want a plot and continuity.  “Red Tails” is true and has action, and the laws of physics stayed real, and yet George Lucas with his money couldn’t get it made for years.  The the 2nd Transformers movie, and worse – the 3rd, there were plot holes and continuity problems, not to mention a script that was written by high school boys on too much Red Bull. If I woke up tomorrow as the head of a studio, anyone approaching me for a movie involving robots or explosions every 8 minutes would be beaten with the script for “Citizen Kane” and left adhered to the sticky floor of the nearest cineplex covered in ants.

    • Roy-in-Boise


  • sam

    i think it’s important to remember that everyone has different tastes, and just like pop music, there are movies directed at mass population.

    in order to please the majority of the people, you have to sacrifice some things.

    Not everyone is going to grok indie films or seek the movies with a story line.

    People watch movies to escape their reality. and if watching an action flick relieves people’s stress and watching a stupid comedy helps people get through their day, then so be it.

    there is a market and a demand for those kinds of movies.

  • donny_t

     You can’t really blame big budget movies for the way they are. I think most writers and directors know how to make a good movie, but there’s the small matter of profits. People need to make narratives and subject matter that the most amount of people can grasp and therefor appreciate thus netting the highest profits. The notion of “saving the world” is something told from the beginning of time and that everyone can relate to. So no wonder it’s the biggest seller.

  • MBoston

    I remember getting re-introduced to “Gone with the Wind” in school.  We would watch 10 minutes of it as a treat at the end of history class.  I think that’s when I began to value “old” movies -in school.

  • RPMcFadden

    Music is in the same hole. Dubstep is trying to create non-stop stimulation without any narrative or human element. Then it is enjoyed on ipod docs instead of the hi-fi systems of the past. 

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    There was the same level of censorship decades ago.  In the supposed Golden Age, minorities, gays, leftists, and so forth had to be disguised or expressed in allegory.

  • AK7666

    Ok..but I kinda like a bit of silliness in the movies. what if all films where like Ben Hur? How boring would that be. I appreciate the CGI because I have seen dinosaurs and amazing things. We need a good mix and I believe there has always been a good mix. The bad enhances the good kinda sorta.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Brokeback Mountain can’t get made today?  Here are my crocodile tears.  I don’t need to see two hours of men grunting with no character development and no development of the love story.

    • JColquitt

       What?  Are you sure we were watching the same movie, bro?  The shots were beautiful.  The characters were well written and well acted.  You trolling or something?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

    One thing that never gets mentioned is instead of only having access to the newest releases in the theatre – we have easy access to most movies that were ever made. We have a wider perspective of movies, endless material to satisfy niche tastes.

    The biggest and best will prevail – what’s really dying is the “B” movie market. Why waste money and time watching crap?

    • Steve__T

       When I was a kid going to the movies was a treat that could last all day watching one great movie and a couple of B movies. Cost to get in $1.75. Today you have to almost take out a loan and you get one show and your put out.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/UMN33B7IKVWNBX5G2S37KRVCOM John

    I hear the sirens of nostalgia. What about the Warchowski bros.? Cloud Atlas? Cosmic in scope yet will be dismissed by many just because of that. This ain’t the 40′s fellas. The reason for so many dystopia scenarios is because we’re living in one! I smell a sort of reverse snobbishness going on here to some degree. Sure, crap is omnipresent but the guys who take great risks to go beyond get slammed if they dare mess around with science fiction.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       And the Coen brothers.  True Grit was beautiful.

      • DrewInGeorgia

        No Country For Old Men still blows my mind every time I watch it.

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

          Exactly.  That’s an example of how to say a lot with only a few words and much scenery.

  • ThisDudeAbides

    I agree…movies, like many other aspects of our society, have been cheapened and watered down to serve the interests of large corporate profits.

    The question is: What now? Will audiences leave movie theaters in disgust and movie-makers will be forced to go back to producing quality films in order to bring us back? Or will we continue to patronize junky films and thereby degrade our appetite (or even capacity) to watch thought-provoking films?

  • RolloMartins

    One of the most depressing things to do is to walk into a BlockBuster (do they still have them?). Row after row of crap.

  • ttajtt

    what about the big bang. SEX

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1320500415 Tasha McRae Burton

    The answer to this problem is local movie houses.  My husband and I run a nonprofit movie house (Park Circle Film Society) in Charleston, SC.  We are able to provide community events, educational films, and help local film director’s raise money for their upcoming projects.  It is another aspect of the local movement.  People want to be a part of something and have a shared experiences within their community.    

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    I love movies, but I watch a lot of them through Netflix.  Going to the theater costs far too much.  That’s the central problem.  Movies cost more and more because the studios think they have to make a bigger splash to draw in audiences, but the higher cost and the greater greed results in fewer eyeballs.

    • Steve__T

       Agreed. A bag of popcorn a medium drink and candy $20 bucks, NO thanks.

  • Pat Bonner

    This argument of lack of substance but always going for the home run flashy project is mirrored in the video game industry as well.  Production companies are funding more sequels and less on new IP titles and thus less originality and creativity, unless you can make it fit the blockbuster model.

  • IsaacWalton

    I don’t think we can compare HBO original series to movies. Those tv shows NEED weeks to develop character. Movies are encapsulated (small by comparison) experiences. Movies survive because of the EVENT and then the merchandising. That won’t go away. Come on FLIGHT, LTOR series, HUNGER games, AVATAR, ARGO…some of the best movies have come out in the last 10 years. And yes there is a LOT of crap out there. 

    • Derick_Mickles

      The films you listed are the ones people who know anything about good cinema list as the vapid crud that killed movies. Not to be mean, but this is the reason things have gotten so bad. The people who think they know films are comparing turds to poop and patting themselves on the back for preferring one over the other. 

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Here’s a suggestion:  Theaters that enforce a no talking and no cellphone policy.  I don’t want to pay the big bucks to listen to some schmo’s conversation about last night’s party.

    • Tyranipocrit

       we have agreement.  how to enforce.  100 dollar deposit.  If you use phone, if phone is on–you dont get the deposit back.  I hate these people–so rude.

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

         Just a simple jamming device–and changing the law to make it legal.

  • http://twitter.com/nprnewsjunkie Freddie

    I watch Hulu+ and Amazon Prime, I don’t sub to satellite TV or cable. And I don’t get local channels with the antenna that I have and its not that important for me to purchase a new one. We get DVD’s through Netflix. We chose exactly what we want to watch and don’t play a dime extra for unneeded channels. 

    • Steve__T

       Freddie you are not alone, I have taken the  same stance I don’t even do Hulu+ due to commercials. I have done this for more than five years and have saved about $350.00 a year.

  • osullivan11

    Best movies I’ve seen in the last decade: Zodiac, There will be Blood, Social Network.

    Do they compare with and will they stand the test of time like The Sting, On the Waterfront, Cat on Hot Tin Roof, High Noon, 12 Angry Men, Dr. Strangelove, Cuckoos Nest, Raging Bull etc….??

  • SamEw

    Whenever I’ve heard these sort of commentaries what is amazing to me is how movies are essentially using the same distribution model they were in the 50′s and succeeding. Think about it what other consumer entertainment medium is doing this: television, music, radio, video games even books? The ‘death of movies’ is not based on their failure but a reflexive reaction to their paradoxical success in an age when all other entertainment products are being massively reshaped by the internet and digital technologies even if the success isn’t quite as large(and I’m not sure for the record it is).

  • Longduree

    (Double post)

  • Longduree

    Sounded like an interesting topic. Then I remembered all those terrible movie reviews the new york times does. Seriously, i will grant that movies could be better, but David Denby is not the guy to follow. If he had it his way, we would be watching unwatcheable movies about Palestinian lemon trees. He doesn’t want good movies, he wants pretentious ones.

  • Michele

    I agree with Denby.  In my neighborhood a movie costs $10-12 as a result my criteria to watch a movie in a theater is much more discerning.  I will not spend my precious time and money on junk.  I rarely see advertisements for movies that make me think: “I’d like to see that in a theater”.  The last movies I watched in the theater were Your Sister’s Sister, the 50th Anniversary release of Singin’ in the Rain and the re-release of Lawrence of Arabia. I would love to have more options, as I enjoy the movie going experience but not the boredom and inevitable disappointment with so many latter day releases.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/236EPW3QEODRFKJW7SUAZQIN3U Billy

    The main problem with the movies is cost. It’s just WAY too much money. I’m not paying $15 plus a ticket to see a mediocre movie so that Johnny Depp or whatever other 1%er movie star can make $25 million dollars a movie.

  • Mosagra

    I sure agree about the “end of the world”.  I’ve got three teenagers, so they’ve been dragging me to these movies for a while now.  I’m so tired of the the end of the world.

  • SamEw

    Why is it assumed that spectacle movies are of lesser quality? LOTR, E.T.  and Back to the Future were all excellent movies that involved ‘flying’ to some extent. There’s also plenty of mediocre films made every year that are more or less realistic.   

  • hoselayer

    i tried calling into your show tom but didnt realize it was an east cost broadcast and i was calling you at 9pm california time. So here is my two cents. I try to go to the movies with the willingness to imagine. I have always loved seeing a movie and being able to imagine myself being a main character or being so involved in the plots and side stories that it keeps you wanting more. A good movie is one that you can watch over and over and never lose an ounce of intrest. So with that being said i do believe we have lost that ability to get involved into movies.

    i dont beilve this disconnect from the audience can be attributed to one reason such as the loss of artistic value for a more buisness approach to movie making. i think we as people have lost the ability to really let ourselfs be fully emersed in a story. It seems more and more to me that the younger generations have lost thier inossence. With that being said kids are forced to grow up and using your imagination and letting yourself be taken away by a movie is looked at as childish. Take a look at “Lord of the Rings” i love it and love the story. i wish i could be frodo or a wizard and set out on a quest to save the world. However The people who watch these types of movies can easily be labled a nerd all because it involves using your imagination. Therefor people dont want to go see them or cant enjoy seeing them without fear of having to be labled. The typical movie you watch today is filled with quick fixes and gratuitous sex and violence. there is no depth or meaning to them. Unfortunantly the companies who make these movies know thats what society is wanting and will shovel it down our throats and call it a blockbuster. I long for another “Shawshank Redemption” but for now i guess i will have to put up with Tyler Parry dressing in drag.

     I never stated i was an expert in grammer or what have you. So sorry for any mistakes or mis-spelling.   

  • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.a.thompson Benjamin Thompson

    I don’t understand his thesis. On this program, he named 20 or so recent films that he likes, recommends or looks forward to. Callers named other recent titles to which he gave his full endorsement. Seems to me like there is a little something out there for everyone. So what if the movies he likes show at the end of the year?

    Denby and I both love going to the darkened theater to be transformed. But who are we to tell everyone else that our preferred, 100 year old exhibition method is superior?

  • Pingback: Bottom’s Up: This Year’s Worst Best Films | Cognoscenti

  • http://thewarmastersrevenge.blogspot.com GreatGunz

    Let the man talk, Tom. Don’t interrupt all the time. 

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