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Week In The News: VP Debate, Race Tightens, Armstrong Report

The VP debate in Kentucky. Lance Armstrong and doping. U.S. troops head for Jordan, our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

VP debate in Kentucky last night.  Voters waited all week to see who would bring their game.  In the end, everybody did.  Smilin’ Joe Biden, big and combative, making the combative case that President Obama did not.  Determined Paul Ryan, scoring points on Benghazi, being the conservative  Mitt Romney downplayed.

Will it change the race?  It did last night.  We’ve got US troops on Syria’s doorstep now in Jordan.  A heroic girl shot by the Taliban in Pakistan.  Lance Armstrong and a big tale of doping.

This hour, On Point:  our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

-Tom Ashbrook

Guests

Todd Purdum, national editor of Vanity Fair.

Bob Cusack, managing editor of The Hill.

Jack BeattyOn Point news analyst.

From Tom’s Reading List

The New York Times “The United States military has secretly sent a task force of more than 150 planners and other specialists to Jordanto help the armed forces there handle a flood of Syrian refugees, prepare for the possibility that Syria will lose control of its chemical weapons and be positioned should the turmoil in Syria expand into a wider conflict.”

L.A. Times “The evidence, Tygart said, is in excess of 1,000 pages and features sworn testimony from 26 individuals, “including 15 riders with knowledge of the USPS team and its participants’ doping activities.”

USA Today “Vice presidential debates may not mean much in the long run — people vote for presidents, after all — but they tend to produce the most memorable moments.”

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  • WorriedfortheCountry

    What was the story with Biden’s smile?

    Did he just finish a big gulp size serving of Joker Juice?
     

    • NewtonWhale

      He just really enjoyed eating Ryan’s lunch.

      • WorriedfortheCountry

         LOL.

        Heh, CNN had it Ryan 48  Biden 44 for what its worth.

        • sickofthechit

           Nice try.  I guess you missed the CBS sampling of 500 undecided who scored it 50% for Biden, 31% for Ryan and 19% undecided.  Expand your universe.

    • Yar

      I wonder what you would have said if President Obama had shown  teeth at the first debate?  If Obama had gone toe to toe with Romney then he would be portrayed as an angry black man.  I would love to see two actors to read transcripts of the first debate with the race of the candidates reversed.  Then people will understand why Obama did not engage Romney.  Many people have a double standard.  Your personal attack on Joe Biden’s smile is just that, you are saying he is not one of us!  That is how -ism’s work. 

    • sickofthechit

       No, he did not just finish a big gulp of Joker Juice.  He had obviously been into the local Burke’s Bakery “Icing covered Pecan Twists”.  Be glad he didn’t get hold of any Spaulding’s Glazed Donuts in Lexington as he probably would have cuffed Ryan a few times when he lied.

  • Michiganjf

    Ryan was really on his guard… he only lied at about 45-50% capacity.

    It will be tough for Romney in the next couple of debates if he has to guard against lying at full capacity as well.

    Romney for president of SOME states of america 2012!
    ([sic] on the lower case p and a.)

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Someone counted and Biden interrupted Ryan 82 times so I guess there might be something to your theory.

      • StilllHere

        And either Biden was lying about his voting record, or he forgot because he’s so old; either way a heart beat away is too close.

      • sickofthechit

         I think he only interrupted when Ryan was lying.
        Charles A. Bowsher

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    The vice-presidential debate was typical for its kind:  calmer, more balanced, and more on substance.  Biden did show a lot of teeth, but the discussion remained on topic.  Asking who won and who lost this one doesn’t seem to be the right question.

  • Wm_James_from_Missouri

    Did any of you world travelers go to the QuantumComm2012 Conference, co-organized by the Budapest University of Technology and Economics, Oct 8 thru Oct 11, 2012 ? If so please tell us about the REAL and MEANINGFUL news of the world. How far off is that super-mind I have been waiting for ?

    • sickofthechit

      We’re here, we’re just in hiding until “Stinky” is relected.
      Charles A. Bowsher

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    These comments from an undecided voter on the CNN focus group are priceless — especially at the end.

    They are only 27 seconds

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/10/11/cnn_focus_group_member_biden_was_acting_like_a_buffoon-comments.html
     

    • sickofthechit

       I think it would be more accurate to describe the woman as “uninformed”, not “undecided”.

      • MrNutso

        People are really un-decided, they’re wont-decided.

      • Don_B1

        @WorriedfortheCountry:disqus 
        @sickofthechit:disqus 
        @MrNutso:disqus 

        [Trying to tie this comment to the correct point in the thread, after ALL previous attempts, in other places, to make a post stick.

        This is/should be in the thread beginning with Worried... with the sentence, "There are only 27 seconds"

        If it does not appear there, I request EVERYONE who reads this to flag it.]

        It is really fascinating to listen to the comments of “undecided” voters and pick up on their biases which not only show how uninformed they are, but also how emotional biases that they do not even realize are influencing them so that they actually think they are undecided but their decision was probably made previously because they are only sensitive to certain information from the debate and they ignore other information.

        It is the apparent inability of the polling organization to identify this in picking their samples, whether because of the expense or because they either do not know the impact or don’t care.

        I am currently watching the 14 October 2012 “UP with Chris Hayes” where the topic under discussion is polling with commentators including David Moore, professor at the University of New Hampshire, former Managing Editor and Senior Editor at the Gallup Poll and author of “The Opinion Makers,” and Nate Silver, author of the FiveThirtyEight blog (TNYT) and the book, “The Signal and the Noise.” See:

        http://upwithchrishayes.msnbc.com/

        for an introduction to the good and bad, and the strengths and deficiencies of polling.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001048219334 Vic Volpe

    VP debates may be inconsequential and this one may be scored ‘even’ but the main question that needs to asked, since the VP is a heartbeat away from being President, “Who would you want to be President?”.

    • sickofthechit

       Joe B.!

    • StilllHere

      Anybody but the crazy, forgetful old man!

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        Uh, McCain isn’t on the ticket this time.

    • DrewInGeorgia

       Well it certainly wouldn’t be Lyin’ Ryan.

  • Yar

    I have a billion reasons why the Ryan Romney ticket is wrong for this country.
    A billion heart beats is considered a lifetime.  The blue collar worker, who actually works with their hands gets to a billion a lot faster than the button pushing upper class worker.  Medicare and Small Business are conflated in tax cut and tax increases.  On the tax cut side, the Romney Ryan 20 percent definition favors the top 1 percent.  On the tax increase side, specifically Ryan says they intend to make the wealthy pay more for health care while they will get less social security, their definition includes many, many more people than the top 1 percent.  Romney Ryan define wealthy differently when cutting taxes than when paying out Medicare and Social Security.

    REP. RYAN: That’s not what Mitt Romney’s proposing. What we’re saying is no changes for anybody 55 and above.
    VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: What Mitt Romney is proposing —
    REP. RYAN: And then the kinds of the changes we’re talking about for younger people like myself is don’t increase the benefits for wealthy people as fast as everybody else —
    VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: Martha —
    REP. RYAN: — slowly raise the retirement age over time.
    VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: Martha —
    REP. RYAN: It wouldn’t get to the age of 70 until the year 2103, according to the actuaries.
    Now, here’s the issue.
    MS. RADDATZ: Quickly, Vice President.
    VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: Quickly, the bottom line here is that all the studies show that if we went with Social Security proposal made by Mitt Romney, if you’re 40 — in your 40s now, you will pay $2,600 a year — you get $2,600 a year less in Social Security. If you’re in your 20s now, you get $4,700 a year less. The idea of changing — and change being, in this case, to cut the benefits for people without taking other action you could do to make it work — is absolutely the wrong way.
    These — look, these guys haven’t been big on Medicare from the beginning. Their party’s not been big on Medicare from the beginning. And they’ve always been about Social Security as little as you can do. Look, folks, use your common sense. Who do you trust on this? A man who introduced a bill that would raise it $6,400 a year, knowing it and passing it, and Romney saying he’d sign it? Or me and the president?
    REP. RYAN: That statistic was completely misleading. But more importantly —
    VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: That’s — there are the facts, right?
    REP. RYAN: — this is — this is what politicians do when they don’t have a record to run on: try to scare people from voting for you. If you don’t get ahead of this problem, it’s going to — (inaudible) —
    VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: Medicare beneficiaries have more benefits now — (inaudible) —
    REP. RYAN: We are not going to run away — we are not going to run away —
    MS. RADDATZ: OK. We’re going to — we’re going to move on to a very simple question to you both.
    REP. RYAN: Medicare and Social Security did so much for my own family. We are not going to jeopardize this program, but we have to save it for the next generation so it doesn’t go bankrupt.
    VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: You are jeopardizing the program. You’re changing the program from a guaranteed benefit to a premium support. Whatever you call it, the bottom line is people are going to have to pay more money out of their pocket.
    REP. RYAN: The wealthy would.
     

    • Don_B1

      Those are two fantastic reasons with long-term consequences. Two more reasons, the first one with immediate consequences, are:

      1) The Republican approach to job creation has now been proved wrong; see the link to the IMF report in today’s column by Paul Krugman:

      http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/12/opinion/krugman-triumph-of-the-wrong.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

      2) The Republican denial of Anthropomorphic Climate Change, which is like selling tanks to Germany, Japan and Italy in the 1930s.

      • Yar

        Don, when we have to pay for our medicare it will be nice to know that Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan thinks we are wealthy.  
        Notice Ryan used the word actuaries.  Their plan is  to raise retirement age to just past the life expectancy of working people.   Treating everyone the same is seldom fair.

        • Don_B1

          Exactly!

          I am sure that I have said it before, but it really bears repeating and remembering:
          The life expectancy number that is important is not life expectancy at birth, which has been climbing since PUBLIC health measures (sewers, inoculations against disease, food safety, etc.) were implemented throughout the 20th Century, but the CONDITIONAL life expectancy at 65.

          And when you look at that (how much longer you can expect to live once you reach 65) across income levels,

          1) it is ONLY the wealthy who have had big increases in life expectancy (4 to 6 years and more)

          2) whereas for those in the middle and lower income groups, the increase in life expectancy is LESS than TWO (2) years!

          That is why the small shortfall of revenue for Social Security, which is due to the lack of growth in wages and jobs, should not be made up by an increase in the enrollment age, but an increase in the wage cap for the contributions to be based on.

          Unfortunately even some Democrats do not understand this.

          • Yar

            Don,
            I just watched a Need to Know episode about the Fiscal Cliff.
            Read the excerpt from their Transcript below.
            MAYA ROCKEYMOORE: But I’m not– and I– I should tell you that I’m very concerned– about the fact that people are talking about– substantially cutting and dismantling even– Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid– in this nation. Because we have a generation of people coming up– who will absolutely need– we have a retirement crisis in this country. And they will absolutely need those benefits. With that, there are ways that we can actually address that without cutting benefits for those who most need it. And the primary way that you get to solvency under Social Security is actually raising the cap on wages. Most people in America don’t know that high earners, those who earn above $110,000 a year, are not paying Social Security– FICA taxes on that amount above $110,000. By raising that cap, you get 75% of the closure in the long-term solvency issue under Social Security. Under Medicare, Medicare is facing a solvency crisis that is more immediate– than Social Security. But we have an issue in this country and it’s only been partially resolved by the Affordable Care Act. And that is the issue of rising health care costs. That is what’s driving– the– the challenges under Medicare. We’ve gotta get that under control.
            http://www.pbs.org/wnet/need-to-know/transcripts-full-episode/transcript-october-12-2012/15143/

  • Ed75

    Some information on the ring President Obama wears (it’s his wedding ring, but he wore it in college, etc.)

    http://teaparty.org/bombshell-obamas-wedding-ring-has-eye-popping-message-14033/

    • JAIBEEZ

      LMAO…you are truly a bigoted fool

      • sickofthechit

         Thanks for saving me the trip to the other universe.

    • John_in_Amherst

       perhaps the teabaggers who take this seriously can group together to negotiate a discount on their meds?

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      “Peak wingnut” is a boundary state which I always think we’ve reached, and some fool proves me wrong.

  • StilllHere

    Biden is a crazy old man, prone to going off on a moment’s notice.  

  • JAIBEEZ

    the bottom line is, you don’t have to like Obama, but to support Romney is just ridiculous. And Un-American

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       It’s un-American to disagree with your point of view?  That’s not the America that I know.

      • sickofthechit

        I think what he meant by “un-American” is what romney/ryan want to do the country.

        They want to Darwinize (copyright charles a. bowsher 2012) the country. That’s un-American.

      • NewtonWhale

        Romney thinks it would not be his job as president to worry about 47% of Americans.

        That’s pretty much the definition of Un-American.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvqHERTcytI

    • sickofthechit

       I love this country is why I support Obama. It is still going to take us at least 20 more years to clean up the mess left by cheney/bush. Economy, environment, international, societal damage, education, political funding, Scalia, Thomas,…..!

      • Don_B1

        G.W. Bush and Cheney gave voodoo economics and deregulation the hopefully final push that certainly was enough to create the economic chaos of the 2007 Recession which turned into the Great Recession as a result of not enforcing the existing regulations of the Federal Reserve (Alan Greenspan) and the S.E.C. (Christopher Cox).

        But remember that “supply-side” economics got its first large-scale political acceptance starting with President Ronald W. Reagan. That was when the big pushback against Keynesian macroeconomics began, though ONLY, or at least MOSTLY, the spending side, not the tax cutting side.

        Because the spending side does take time to be effective, there were reasons to accept this for recessions that are controllable by monetary (Federal Reserve) policy actions such as most of the recessions since 1950.

        But this Great Recession is a financial crisis as well as just the “normal” business cycle has been called out as being one that will have a slow recovery, and thus the fiscal policy of deficit spending will have traction in shortening that recession (which is now, because of the slow recovery of jobs, a “lesser” depression).

        This Greater Recession (December 2007 to June 2009) was created by the banking crisis (scandal) freezing banking transactions and the collapse of the housing bubble causing millions of people to go underwater on their mortgages and then cutback on spending, which led businesses to lay off workers and delay purchases of capital goods, further growing the unemployment rolls in a vicious circle down toward a great depression (the rate of fall at the end of 2008 and beginning of 2009 was steeper than the 1930 entrance to the Great Depression, halted only by the prompt enactment of the ARRA). This is the ONLY recession with a huge debt load in the PRIVATE sector since the Great Depression, where the debt to be paid down is owed by both individuals (homes, etc.) and the financial sector (investment banks, insurance companies, etc.).

  • RolloMartins

    The media needs to call out the Ryan-Romney tax cut plan. Biden was correct to say that mathematically this 20% reduction in taxes cannot be supported on the credit side. Isn’t possible (and if it was they still wouldn’t do it). The problem isn’t the lie; the problem is that half the country doesn’t seem to care.

    • Gregg Smith

      “I can’t tell exactly how the Obama campaign reached that characterization of my work.  It might be that they assume that Governor Romney wants to keep the taxes from the Affordable Care Act in place, despite the fact that the Governor has called for its complete repeal.  The main conclusion of my study is that  under plausible assumptions, a proposal along the lines suggested by Governor Romney can both be revenue neutral and keep the net tax burden on taxpayers with incomes above $200,000 about the same.  That is, an increase in the tax burden on lower and middle income individuals is not required in order to make the overall plan revenue neutral.”
      http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/princeton-economist-obama-campaign-misrepresenting-my-study-romneys-tax-plan_653917.html

      “Well, okay, stipulated. It won’t be near $5 trillion…” -Stephanie Cutter

      http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/10/04/cutter_concedes_5_trillion_attack_on_romney_is_not_true.html 

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

      The Republicans have the tax cut side down – they just fall down when it comes to paying for it. Like last decade – the only reason we were not seeing trillion dollar deficits after the tax cuts they did then was that the actual damage was masked by a massive real estate and credit bubble.

    • William

       Ryan was correct to say they are providing the frame work for the Congress and them to work on if they get elected. He indicated they want to work with Congress to get a deal so there is nothing set in stone.
       Both sides agree that the tax code needs to be revised so this is a starting point.

  • Ed75

    We had a discussion the other night as to whether President Obama was an anti-Christ. To be an anti-Christ, and there is always at least one in the world, you have to stand for policies directly against the policies of the Church. So he fit that bill.

    But then we asked if he were the anti-Christ. Hard to say. Traditionally we know only a few things about the anti-Christ.

    He will come at the end of time, for one.

    For another, and this is hard to imagine, people ‘will not know where he came from … yet he will come from everywhere’. Hmm.

    Last, he will appear under the guise of doing good. I’m reminded of the Nobel Peace Prize.

    What convinces me, so far, of President Obama’s anti-Christ spirit is that he acts against the Church’s views on every piece of legislation, even the smallest. This consistency is telling. On n major issues, there are five non-negotiable positions a Catholic can not support, and he supports four of them and hasn’t had time to support the fifth.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

      Let me guess Mitt Romney is Mormon and a family guy.
      He is an Angel.

      • sickofthechit

        Actually I think he is one of the “appointed ones” or some such nonsense and is line for a planet!

        • sickofthechit

          What it should have said was,
          “Actually I think he (Romeny) is one of the “appointed ones” or “annointed ones” and is in line for a planet or something.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       Flaws in your reasoning:

      1.  You identify the Church–presumably the Catholic Church–as Christ.  A human institution is not God.

      2.  A president can have policies that don’t agree with the Church without being an anti-Christ.  In a society with people of many different beliefs, one particular one can’t be the official policy of the nation.

      3.  We’re nowhere near the “end of time.”  The Sun has several billion years left, and the Universe can go on for many billions more.

      • sickofthechit

         The sun may burn bright for billions more years, but earth is struggling with all the poisons we are spewing.  It’s future is dire.  Otherwise I liked your comment (not that you care).charles

        • keltcrusader

          maybe it should be “end of man’s time” as humans surely are heading toward the annihilation of our species through our own distructiveness of our habitat and each other. religions bring out the worst of human nature and it will be our downfall. the earth will probably survive, changed but intact, and other species will too that are more capable of adapting, but we will be gone. Klaatu pegged it right – the earth will have a better chance of survival without us on it. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

        According Historical facts God is the Sun.

        Who bring light to earth to create life.

        Jesus Christ was another Martin Luther King of his life time. If MLK was fighting for civil liberty.
        Christ was introducing a new religion, a religion that was better than the existing religions in those days or time – Islam and Judaism.

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

           There’s so much wrong with your comment that I don’t know where to begin.  Are you aware that historical events happen in an order?  Islam didn’t exist when Jesus was alive.  Jesus came before Martin Luther King, Jr., and his message had nothing to do with civil rights.  Mythology is not a fact, nor is it history.  It’s a different system of thought entirely.

          That’ll be enough to be going on with.

      • Ed75

        1.You’re correct, the Catholic Church is not God, of course. But it is not only a human institution. It was estabished by Jesus, and he is the head of the Church in heaven. Also, the Church is animated and directed by the Holy Spirit, whom he sent, the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity. As Jesus promised, ‘the gates of hell shall not stand against it’, and ‘he who hears you (to Peter), hears me’. So it has this charism, given it by God, that it is prevented from doctrinal error in theology and moral teaching. The Church is a mystery, and a Sacrament in itself.
        2. Allowance of other beliefs is understandable, of course, but the president is targeting the Catholic Church and has started to persecute it. That’s different.
        3. The end of the world is not the same as the end of the physical world as we know it. The end of the world precedes the return of Jesus. But we don’t know when that will be, though Jesus gave us certain prophecies about it.

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

          You’re welcome to your beliefs, but from what you’ve said, there are a lot of anti-Christs running around.  I disagree with your position.  Many others do too.  How can you live in a world with that much opposition to what you see as true?

    • jimino

      I appreciate your honesty in making it clear you are an utter fool and that respecting your opinion about anything whatsoever would be a monumental error.  I just wish the rest of the ignorant and crazy people among us, especially those running for office, would be as honest and not flee or disavow their obviously nutty world view, like Akin, Romney, Ryan, etc., when they accidentally let it show in public.  Thanks again.

    • 1Brett1

      Well, this is good news, Ed! With the Rapture and all, you don’t even have to pass “go” with your credentials; you can go straight to heaven!

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      By the way, Ed75, are you aware that in the view of many Protestants, the pope is the anti-Christ?

    • nj_v2

      Ha! “We know” this and “we know” that.

      We being the brainwashed religious cultists.

      I’ll donate a little something for land acquisition if y’all will go away and start your own little country somewhere.

    • John_in_Amherst

      THIS is why the founding fathers sought to put distance between church and state….
      So Revelations is actually a foretelling of current events?  While you are frothing on about the antichrist, do you have any comments about Smith and his Mormon beliefs, and what roll Romney is filling?  How about elucidating how Leviticus can pattern our social policy?  Care to comment on Christ’s teachings regarding the care of the sick, the poor, the stranger in our midst, the incarcerated and how the GOP agenda jives with them?  How about the likelihood of a rich man entering the gates of heaven?  PLEASE!

    • Steve__T

       We have more than you think, how about this one
      ” Thou Shall Not Lie” Apply that to any politician see what you get.

    • J__o__h__n

      It is far too obvious for the devious Satan to choose a Kenyan-born Muslim to be the anti-Christ.  Surely, he is a Roman Catholic anti-choice anti gay zealot who spends time preaching to the NPR heathens.

      Also, socialist Europe just won the Nobel Peace Prize so perhaps all of them are the anti-Christs too. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

    People who are making $100,000 to $250,000 a year are NOT MIDDLE CLASS and they giving them a Tax Break!!!!

    The People who needs tax breaks are the people that makes minimum wage $7.50 or $15,000 to $55,000 a year salary rage.

    We don’t make $45.00 an hour We the 99% do not make $4,000 a week after taxes.

    We Are Struggling

    • Gregg Smith

      Many small businesses pay taxes as individuals. $100 to $250K does not go far with a few employees, overhead and onerous regulations. Minimum wage is fine for entry level burger flippers but anyone who is an adult and has not nurtured the skills and work ethic to be worth more than that is a loser. Big time.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

        A know a restaurant owner that claims his Trucks has tax deductible because he uses truck to deliver food he got 3 of those trucks. I am not against small businesses. that was not the point of my comment. I am aiming the people who makes high hourly rates.

      • Don_B1

        @google-327b60c55221432e499267aebfb70c09:disqus 
        Are you actually trying to tell us that their employee’s wages, healthcare and F.I.C.A., etc., are not deductible?

    • margbi

       Perhaps it was a Freudian slip but it makes sense – why wouldn’t those who earn minimum wage, with which you can’t support a family, show rage at the system which pays those on top about 350 times what the average worker earns? 

    • William

       But people making between 15k-55k do receive tax breaks.

      • Don_B1

        They are minor compared to those the wealthy receive. And for Romney to “pay for” his $5 trillion in tax rate cuts, they will be lost and those in that bracket will end up paying more.

  • Steven Brown

     I would like to hear some perspective on Leon Panetta’s rather dire concerns about a pending-potentially crippling cyber-attack on US infrastructure

    • sickofthechit

      The smart-grid for our electrical system is what is most at risk if you ask me.

      Charlie Rose had a female computer science expert on a few days ago who basically said our banking networks are so insecure that she recommended doing no banking whatsoever over the internet, including debit cards at registers etc.  She said,  so far the banks are quietly covering all the losses, but it isn’t clear how long that will continue.

      • Don_B1

        It will last as long as the banks find it cheaper to absorb the fraud losses than spend what is necessary to build/rent the office space and hire the employees to man them.

  • sickofthechit

    I am proud of Kentucky’s part in bringing a little more truth to the debate at hand.  I am prouder still of Papa Joe’s performance!  Ryan needs to hope he can retain his house seat because employment elsewhere in government in the future is limited for him. charles a. bowsher

    “They may have all the money(88%) but we have all the votes!”

    • StilllHere

      Government has no standards, Senator/VP Biden is the clearest example of that!

      • Don_B1

        V.P. Joseph Biden is a human saint compared to “close the deal” at any price businessmen like Mitt Romney who will say ANYTHING he thinks will convince enough voters to make him president, his only discernable goal.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

    I am A Liberal!!!

    If the Democrats and Republicans will not agree in a form of bipartisanship the recovery of America’s economy will be doom.

    But will you vote again the party that destroyed the American middle class and the poor.

    • StilllHere

      Exactly!  America don’t repeat your mistake of 2008!

      • sickofthechit

         Uh, hate to tell you this, but the economy was destroyed by cheney/bush with $trillions in unpaid for and ineffective tax cuts, $1trillion+ for wars, $1trillion plus in Medicare Prescription Drug benefits and a lack of regulatory oversight so gross we barely escaped a second Great Depression.  Job losses in the millions began long before the 2008 election, and even longer before the 2009 inauguration.charles

        • Gregg Smith

          Do you have any idea how lame that party line is?

          • Ray in VT

            Do you have any idea how lame it is to continually deny how badly the GOP Congress and the Bush administration screwed things up and how that continues to affect us now?

          • Gregg Smith

            No I don’t Ray. 

          • Steve__T

             That is the only honest statement I’ve heard from you, today.
            You have no Idea, that’s the truth.

          • sickofthechit

             What part or parts are you unable to grasp?

          • Gregg Smith

            The numbers do not work. There is no way to connect the dots to present. It’s a total party line talking point with zero credibility. In 2007 after 4 years of raging wars and Tax Cuts the deficit was $162 billion. Medicare Part D is the only bill in the history of the universe to come in under budget. Obamacare’s price has tripled and makes part D look like play school. Bush made a lot of people angry including me but he’s gone. Blame Bush, fine. But blame Omama $5 trillion times more.

          • sickofthechit

            Gregg, we are running out of space, but here goes. The wars were never in the cheney/bush budgets, Nor were the cheney/bush tax cuts, and our skewed for the rich tax system have never “created” the jobs they claim.  Otherwise we would be importing foreign workers since all Americans would have at least one full-time job each by now.  The Part D Medicare was never in the budget so how it came in “under budget” is a phantom.  Actually Obama’s first year included a $1.2 trillion dollar debt for that year alone. The fiscal year runs through October, so Stinky’s budget did not start until November 2009.  For the first time Obama included in his budgets the ongoing cost of cheney/bush wars and the Part D program. It’s called honesty.

          • Gregg Smith

            More talking points. The wars were on budget connected to other bills. There just weren’t war spending bills. It was paid for and reflected. Obama’s first year included TARP but he implemented half of it while the debt goes to Bush. ThenObama did it (trillion $ deficits) 4 more times. Bush didn’t make him do that.

          • Don_B1

            @google-327b60c55221432e499267aebfb70c09:disqus 
            The Medicare Part D came in under budget because it was UNDERSUBSCRIBED! ! !

            When you “plan” for 10 guests and only 7 arrive at the restaurant, the bill comes in lower than what it would have if all 10 guests had come.

            Does Gregg think he can remember that this time?!?

          • Gregg Smith

            It came in under budget because of competition.

          • Don_B1

            Prove it with some thingmore  thana Republican link.

          • Don_B1

            @google-327b60c55221432e499267aebfb70c09:disqus 
            @sickofthechit:disqus 
            @Steve__T:disqus 
            @rayinvt:disqus 
            @StilllHere:disqus 

            The numbers you cite for the Bush Administration, 2001-2009, include the boom in housing that occluded what would otherwise have been much higher deficits.Then, when the December 2007 Recession hit, foreshadowed by the housing price decline starting in late 2006, and then the Bear Sterns takeover in March 2008 followed by the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers in September 2008, which was the breaking of the log-jam and the beginning of free-fall in the economy, with massive layoffs and a huge pullback in consumer spending.

            Those last two items were the drivers of the huge spike in federal (and state) deficits due to big drops in revenue from the drop in GDP and the increased spending on the social safety net.

            BEFORE President Obama took office, in January 2009, the CBO had projected a 2009 deficit of $1.1 trillion, which was based on the economics that developed DURING the G.W. Bush administration; this Great Recession, which was a “balance sheet” recession, is not amenable to a “simple” change in monetary policy by the Federal Reserve to restore growth, and every economist will agree with that. See Rogoff and Reinhart.

            In other words there is an EASILY found way to connect the dots from Bush economics to the present, except when you DISREGARD the most important dots.

            Your post is just more Republican misdirection and deception, and TOTALLY dishonest.

            But that seems to be your (paid?) troll business here.

      • Steve__T

         Yeah we should have voted for Mc Cain Palin. LOL

    • Gregg Smith

      That was exactly the point Ryan made last night regarding the tax plan. It is also the reason Obamacare is such an abomination. Ramming through something that transformational with zero input from Republicans was bad for America. Look at what Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich did working together, balanced budgets, welfare reform, etc.

      • Ray in VT

        Yeah, I mean all that they did was negotiate changes with some of big players in the field (insurance companies, hospitals) and fund it using a mechanism that came out of the Heritage Foundation, that Mitt Romney used in Massachusetts, that Newt Gingrich supported for somewhere in the neighborhood of 15 years and that the GOP ran out as a counter to “Hilarycare” during the Clinton administration.

        How dare they do nothing to try to win over the Republicans?

        The mandate was the attempt, as opposed to a Medicare for all approach, and it won over zero votes.  I think that the reason that the Democrats couldn’t win over any GOP votes is that the GOP decided ahead of time that they weren’t going to support anything that they administration rolled out.

        • Gregg Smith

          I’m not going to go there Ray. The mandate argument is flawed and irrelevant. The differences are huge but it doesn’t matter. Not a single Republican voted for Obamacare and it’s impact is sweeping. Don’t tell me that’s good and don’t tell me it’s typical. Akilez Stamatelaky’s point was completely valid.

          • Ray in VT

            It’s not good, and perhaps not typical, but I think that it speaks to the fact that the GOP is largely unwilling to work with the administration.

          • sickofthechit

             Gregg, I am here in Kentucky and from day one of the Obama Presidency Mitch McConnell has done everything in his power, including stalling and thwarting our countries recovery just so he and the Repugnicans (republican politicians) could regain power.  The Repugnicans could have been a part of it all, been at the table, instead they stood on the outside of the tent, urinated inside and kicked out tent poles and cut support lines.  The more Repugnican congressmen who lose this fall, the better chance our country has of recovering from the damage they and their policies have done.

      • jimino

        Remind us what the Republicans’ plan was now, since the ACA was essentially what they proposed in the 90′s, based on their own think tank’s proposals, and actually implemented by their current candidate for president when he was a governor.

        Oh, I remember now.  It was “anything except what Obama proposed”, regardless of what it was, since their avowed agenda had nothing to do with governing and everything to do with making him a one termer. 

      • sickofthechit

         “The “Affordable Health Care Act” is an improvement over existing, but still far short of Medicare for all.  The most efficient health care delivery system in the country, especially when you consider it is serving our most health challenged population (the elderly).

        • Gregg Smith

          The price has tripled, it’s unworkable.

          • Don_B1

            @google-327b60c55221432e499267aebfb70c09:disqus 
            @sickofthechit:disqus 
            @rayinvt:disqus 
            @jimino:disqus 

            You have NO, repeat NO, believable basis for a statement of that kind, except I suppose you can find some ignoramus on the Internet to link to.

            What has changed is the period of evaluation of the cost of healthcare, which has been going up, though for the last two years at a LOWER rate that the previous two decades. But when you include the year 10 years from now and drop the year just past, you get an increase in the sum of the cost over 10 years.

            It is a simple, reasonable concept and its total misuse by Gregg Smith is typical of win-at-any-cost Republicans, attempting to deceive the voters again.

      • Don_B1

        Another GLARING falsehood on acceptance of Republican input to the PPACA:

        The Democrats DID take Republican input in crafting the PPACA:

        1) It was based on the plan Gov. Mitt Romney and the Massachusetts Legislature crafted from the right-wing Heritage Foundation plan developed as an alternative to the Clinton healthcare reform in 1994.

        2) The “gang of six” in the Senate worked through the summer debating Republican proposals for the PPACA, adopting somewhere around 50 or more of them.

  • Gregg Smith

    Biden and Obama both got more time than their opponents… but they did less with it.

  • Gregg Smith

    This lying administration has blood on their hands. It’s heartbreaking.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3ldyGsZ1Io&feature=player_embedded

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

      Oh Please!! Gregg the Obama’s Administration did not killed those Americans. Dying from smoke inhalation wad much better than their Head getting cut off by those terrorists.

      Lying???? Did you forget about the 5,000 American troops that died in Iraq and the 35,000 DISABLED American troops? That u

      • Gregg Smith

        They died from a terrorist attack on the anniversary of 9/11 in a dangerous part of the world. Their repeated requests for security were denied. They knew on day one it had nothing to do with a movie but lied and lied about it.

        No one lied about Iraq.

        • Yar

          The Niger uranium forgeries are forged documents initially revealed bySISMI (Italian military intelligence). These documents seem to depict an attempt made by Saddam Hussein in Iraq to purchase yellowcake uranium powder from Niger during the Iraq disarmament crisis.

          • Gregg Smith
          • Ray in VT

             http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25546334/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/t/secret-us-mission-hauls-uranium-iraq/#.UHgV71G1nTo

            “Israeli warplanes bombed a reactor project at the site in 1981. Later,
            U.N. inspectors documented and safeguarded the yellowcake, which had
            been stored in aging drums and containers since before the 1991 Gulf
            War. There was no evidence of any yellowcake dating from after 1991, the
            official said.”

            It was old stuff, not stuff that they were trying to buy, as the administration suggested.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

            Thanks Ray.
            One of the pilot that destroyed the Iraqi Reactor. “Ilan Ramon died on the last Space Shuttle accident.

          • Ray in VT

            You’re welcome, Akilez.  I didn’t know that tidbit about Ilan Ramon, or even his name until you mentioned it, although I do remember, vividly, both the Challenger and the Columbia disasters.

          • Gregg Smith

            First, the administration suggested no such thing, reread the infamous 16 words. Secondly, Iraq was seeking nukes, who cares where and when the yellowcake came from? And third we were told it did not exist, it did.

            Lastly and most importantly, Iraq is irrelevant. It’s history. We can accept all you say or think about it but excusing bad behavior by citing other bad behavior is not a valid justification. 

            “B-b-but he started it” is juvenile schoolyard stuff.

            I guess you’ve noticed I’ve gotten a bit more testy with you lately, that’s sad but I feel compelled. This episode is hideous, I have no patience for excusing it. I don’t care what side you’re on.

          • Ray in VT

            I think that ultimately the situation could have been resolved without wasting a trillion dollars, 4,000 American lives and maybe 100,000 Iraqi lives.  But, as you say, it is history, so there isn’t need to debate what other options could have been taken.

            There was a lot based upon people who were unreliable (the book Curveball comes to mind).  There were guys like Ritter who screamed about how the intelligence was wrong, and they got ignored.  What really ticks off a lot of critics of the war is not just the faulty intelligence, but that Tenet got the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2004 .  Why give a medal to a guy whose people got stuff so wrong?

            I have noticed the increased testiness.  I also find it increasingly difficult to not be more curt with someone who considers Rush Limbaugh to be a source of good, accurate information or who considers the NAACP to be on par with the KKK.

            I don’t like the schoolyard he started it either, but I merely like to point out the hypocrisy of a guy like Ryan, who is supposedly a budget hawk, yet who voted for all of the budget busting stuff under Bush.  I think that the GOP in general is carries the stink of hypocrisy on these issues, given what they did when they had the ball.  I don’t like deficits any more now than under Bush, although I can see greater justification for them in bad economic times.  At least guys like Bernie Sanders and Ron Paul have been fairly consistent over the years.

            This event is quite heinous, but I don’t see a need to rush to judgement.  The facts will come out, and I think that a proper inquiry is in order, but I don’t have faith in Issa or the GOP to conduct one fairly, especially this close to an election.  I’m not justifying it any more than the Cairo embassy or Obama have been out on an apology tour.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

            WikiLeak exposed that but the million dollar question is Where is Niger Uranium? Did Saddam sold it to the Iranians?

            Why the US troops or UN inspectors never find anything to pin point that Saddam had the Uranium. or had it but disposed of it by selling it

          • Don_B1

            The “Niger uranium” [yellowcake] is still wherever it was, because the whole thing NEVER happened, as was exposed by Joe Wilson. See:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger_uranium_forgeries

            But the Wilson exposure of the V.P. Cheney factor led to the exposure of Valerie Plame as a C.I.A. agent and the subsequent Independent Prosecutor action on those working for V.P. Cheney.

        • Ray in VT

          I think that you are once again jumping to conclusions regarding “facts” that mostly come from your conservative sources when the true details have yet to be definitively established.  I’m not sure on day one that it was clear who was behind the attack and what it was related to.

          I wonder if there would have been more money for embassies and their security if the GOP hadn’t cut $459 million from those areas over the past two years.

          No one lied about Iraq?  Please.  Dissenting voices were silenced, and the neo-cons were focusing in on Iraq early in the Bush administration.  Some of those dopes thought that Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda were in league with Hussien in some sort of cabal.  Well, at least we have a solid ally there now and all of that oil revenue paying off the costs of that boondoggle (sarcasm off).

          • Gregg Smith

            The State Department or the President of Libya are not conservative sources. I’ve read all sides from every angle, I get so sick of the baseless charge, oh well.

            I see no reason to rehash Iraq at this point but I stand by my comment, no one lied. If you want to make that claim then to be consistent you need to say everyone lied. It is impossible to tell a lie and not know it. Did you see Rep. Gowdy on C-span at the hearing?

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUn8TJ6Tyq2aGvhybME_itDQ&feature=player_embedded&v=zSvDkwsFsk8

          • Ray in VT

            So, on day one, when the attack occurred, the administration knew that it was a terrorist group conducting a pre-planned attack and in no way related to the incident in Cairo and the unrest which was then beginning to spread throughout the Muslim world?  Do you have some information regarding the fact that they knew it from the very outset?

            I stand by my position that the lead up to the war and the intelligence was a botched deal, wherein dissenting voices were sidelined or marginalized so that the predetermined outcome could be realized.

            So, no matter how wrong someone is about something, just so long as they believe it, then it’s not a lie?  So, if I convince myself of something, no matter how far-fetched, then just so long as I believe it, then ultimately my conscience is clear?

            I did not see the hearing.  I don’t watch much TV.  2 jobs and 3 kids take up most of my time.

          • Gregg Smith

            Yes they knew on day one. They admitted it the day before the hearing. It’s true. I have no idea how you missed it.

          • Ray in VT

            I’m offline or away from the media for broad stretches of time.  I found a timeline of the events as they happened, but it did not indicate anything that happened stateside.  The attack would have started about 4:00am here I guess.  Do you have a link providing for your statement?  I’ll believe it, certainly, but I would need to see the evidence that that day they knew (and I mean really knew) what went down at the consulate and who was behind it.

          • Gregg Smith

            I’ll sigh up several sources later when I have time and put it up top. By now it’s old news and that’s my problem.The lie has taken hold and those only casually connected have formed an opinion. In other words the lies are believed by sincere but manipulated people.

          • Ray in VT

            Your last sentiment pretty much sums up my opinion of those who listen to talk radio, and that is not meant specifically as a swipe at you.

          • Gregg Smith

            Rush listeners knew the truth first in this case.

          • William

             The Hill.com has a pretty good break down on the spending requests from Obama and what was approved by Congress. No President gets everything they want and must set priorities with what funds are approved. Obama has been providing a full Secret Service detail for his adviser Valerie Jarrett but refused to provide security that requested by American Embassy in Libya. Who was under the bigger threat? Jarrett or the American Embassy in Libya?

             

          • Ray in VT

            Do you have a Hill link?  I looked briefly, but I didn’t see anything that jumped out at me.

            I wonder if this sort of Secret Service protection, if she does have it, is typical for administration advisers.

            Now, you say Obama, as if he is making these security decisions personally, and I am sure that that is not the case.  I’m sure that there’s some office at State that does this, and if the ambassador was that concerned, then why was he in Benghazi without some of that detail that was in Tripoli?

          • William

             http://thehill.com/homenews/house/250237-gop-embassy-security-cuts-draw-democrats-scrutiny

          • Ray in VT

            Thanks.  It says that the Consulate was considered a temporary facility.  It does make me wonder why the Ambassador chose to stay there.  Maybe he felt on good terms with the Libyan people?  It seems an odd choice in retrospect, but hindsight is always 20/20.

          • Gregg Smith

            He requested security. He feared for his life as he wrote in his journal. There’s more security in Paris.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

          oh please Gregg.

          No one lied about Iraq? Powell was pretty good actor don’t you think and Bush was extraordinary calm and sparkling $$$ signs in his eyes when he declared war against the Iraqi people.

          • Steve__T

             Powell quit his position as soon as he realized he had been lied to. He has become a private person wanting nothing to do with government or politics.

          • Don_B1

            @Steve__T:disqus 

            Secretary Powell resigned at the end of George W. Bush’s first term when there was the normal turnover.

            That does not say that he was only then aware of how he had been used a year and a half to two years earlier.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

          That was already out 3 months before the attack. One of the reporter from Al Jazeera broadcast it before 9/11.

          The video and the 9/11 anniversary are the fuel to launch an attack.

          if Biden and Obama had no Clue of the lack security in the Consulate in Libya.

          if I think if they did. they will send more troops to protect the Ambassador.

          I saw an Ambassador before in Manila and he only got 1 security and a driver.

          • Gregg Smith

            The movie had nothing to do with squat. And if Biden and Obama had no clue about the lack of security they are incompetent oafs.

        • Steve__T

           No one lied about Iraq? Did you bump your head?

      • MrNutso

        253 dead Marines in Beirut.

    • John_in_Amherst

       True to the GOP’s MO of trying to turn every tragedy to political advantage, the Republican congressmen who rushed to hold special hearings on the Libya assault managed to accidentally reveal the fact that the Libyan consulate was actually at least in part a CIA compound.  It might be reasonable to assume that there is more to this story yet than meets the eye.  But heaven forbid should Romney and Ryan “rally behind the flag” for a news cycle or two and miss an opportunity to reach a key voting demographic in some swing state.  There is a whiff of 1980 about this affair, when Reagan, Bush I and Cheney cut a deal with the Iranian dissidents to hold embassy personnel hostage until inauguration day, helping to insure Carter’s defeat.

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

         Democrats aren’t free of trying to take advantage of an outrage.  Remember Aurora and Tucson?

        • Gregg Smith

          The Rahm Emanuel Doctrine.

        • John_in_Amherst

           What national security and international relations issues were at stake in Tuscon or Aurora?  I must have missed the presidential debate where those domestic gun-nut tragedies were discussed…

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            You said that the GOP doesn’t miss an opportunity to exploit death for its own ends.  I’m asking you to see that it’s politicians never miss an opportunity, not just one party.

          • John_in_Amherst

             I don’t see how trying to combat the NRA and its power to extort votes by playing on second amendment paranoia equates to a murky account of an attack on a clandestine CIA base associated with a consulate.  But I would have to confess, yes, pols in BOTH parties are capable and guilty of low blows.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

             You mean the NRA’s efforts to defend the gun rights of American citizens?

          • John_in_Amherst

             No.  I mean the NRA’s misreading of the second amendment that leaves Americans vulnerable to rampages of insane killers armed with automatic weapons our founding fathers never dreamed of, even as arms for the “well trained militias” they wrote about and the NRA assiduously avoids referencing in 2nd amendment discussions…

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            How is the NRA misreading the amendment?  “The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”  Not the right of the state or the right of the militia.  The militia clause just tells us why the Founders thought it was important to include the statement, but the right is identified as belonging to all of us.

          • John_in_Amherst

             This thread has become dissociated from the original context, but to forge ahead: THIS is the second amendment: “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free
            state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be
            infringed.”

            The militia is not an afterthought, it is the premise for allowing people to bear arms.  And these were arms that fired subsonic rounds at the rate of 1 every 30-60 seconds.  These were times when a flintlock rifle cost, in “real dollars”, about $30K, what a fancy mid-sized car does today.  These were times when mounting a military response to a threat could take weeks or months, as opposed to hours or minutes, and a citizen militia really did help maintain law and order and didn’t just run around the woods on weekends in full camo playing soldier and fantasize about ZOG attempts to coral guns.  The problem with any “original intent” interpretation of the constitution and bill of rights is that the world has moved on from the technology and understanding of 240 years ago.  When you have a medical problem, do you rely on 18th century medicine?  When you want to travel, do you get in a car or plane, or do you ride a horse or board a schooner?  The idea that the “founding fathers’ ” insights into governance still apply verbatim to the 21st century is ridiculous, and results in tragic consequences.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

             1.  Look at the grammar of the sentence.  The militia clause is dependent, while the keep and bear clause is independent.  The militia is offered as why we need to state the amendment explicitly, rather than leave the matter to the Ninth Amendment.

            2.  You repeat the gun grabbers’ line about how we don’t use eighteenth century technology today.  You repeat that line here on the Internet.  Does the First Amendment have to keep up with the march of time?  If my gun rights are a thing of the past, then so is your right to free expression.

            3.  The Founders set up a nation on the principle that the individual is the fundamental unit of a society.  A government is a mutual agreement between individuals that must be strictly limited in its powers.  That view of a society is necessary today and always.

            4.  American gun owners for the most part aren’t part of some anti-government band looking for a new civil war.  We own guns and legally carry guns for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with seeking out violence.

          • John_in_Amherst

             I’ll stand on MY grammatical analysis. 
            I am a gun owner, not a gun grabber.  I believe in RESPONSIBLE gun ownership, which in my view, does not entitle everyone regardless of their mental stability to own military grade weapons.  I grew up hunting and target shooting, and think it wise to instruct kids in proper gun use.  I still think it is a reasonable idea to require licensing of inherently potentially dangerous equipment and actions, like driving, piloting boats, flying planes, practicing medicine or owning guns. 
            Ideas on free speech have certainly changed as a result of technology.  My right to stand on a soap box or use moveable wood-type printing to disseminate ideas is still in tact, but there are better ways of doing things now.  I am not sure how far you want to limit governmental powers, and I am sure we differ on that, which is what democracy is about – figuring out the give and take, and that balance is always in flux with the conditions of the times, i.e.: there is no perfect solution good in perpetuity.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

             This is why we have a representational republic, not a democracy.  Individual rights aren’t subject to popular vote.

          • John_in_Amherst

             I’d agree: Individual rights shouldn’t be subject to popular votes.  (they are a constitutional thing, and if there is a dispute, there should be a trial before impartial judge(s).  Being a citizen entitles you to enumerated rights, even if it offends some people.  Being a citizen also implies a level of reciprocal responsibility to the state/ your fellow citizens.  Like being registered or licensed for various potentially dangerous activities, and leaving extremely dangerous activities (like shooting a full-auto weapon) to the pros (i.e.:military)

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            Legal fully automatic firearms are heavily regulated already.  Semiautomatic isn’t the same thing.  In most states in this country, a person can own legal firearms without a license, and licenses to carry concealed handguns are given to those who qualify.

      • MrNutso

        And the GOP’s proposed cuts to to the State Departments Worldwide Security Program.  The Secretary of State warned the cuts would be detrimental to national security.

    • Michiganjf

      The lying Republicans have peanut-butter in their brains. It’s hemorrhaging.

      • Gregg Smith

        Did you watch it? I actually cried and I’m a burly manly man. 

        • Michiganjf

          Good grief.
          That has to be the ninth or tenth time you’ve “shared” with all of us about how some Republican website made you gush over their YouTube masterpieces.

          Maybe it’s time you stopped going to right-wing websites designed to manipulate the gullible into teary-eyed submission.

          Glenn Beck 4ever!

          • Gregg Smith

            It was on CNN. It was Anderson Cooper. It was the mother of the SEAL’s own words. It was first hand. What on earth are you even talking about? Watch it.

          • Michiganjf

            Oh yeah… the mother of the SEAL who said she doesn’t trust Mitt Romney.

            Quit yer ballin’.

          • Michiganjf
          • Gregg Smith

            Yes, I saw that too. He’s a good man.

            So the lies don’t bother you. The mother’s pain is no biggee. What kind of monster are you?

          • Michiganjf

            A boogie-woogie MONSTER!
            Watch Out, Rightie!

          • Gregg Smith

            Who’s the one posting right-wing stories from Glenn Beck’s hack website now? And if you think it damns Romney how is it possible Beck would report it?

            You have just outed yourself as being totally uniformed about what you claim to be an expert on.

        • StilllHere

          Very touching, and factual.  Democrats will ignore at their own peril.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          Even Anderson Cooper was getting emotional.

          • Gregg Smith

            And how could he not? It’s a tragedy and the lack of outrage from commenters here is astonishing.

        • BHA_in_Vermont

           ROTFLMAOWPIMP

    • sickofthechit

       Don’t click on this link. It is a danger to your time.

    • sickofthechit

       It was Ryan and his cohorts in the House who blocked over $500 million in State Department Security Spending over the last two years, not Obama/Biden!

    • hennorama

      I’m opposed to using the deaths and injuries of Americans for political purposes.

      However, since you chose “to go there,” then perhaps you could discuss the number of US servicemembers killed or injured in unarmored or inadequately armored vehicles during the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

      Or perhaps you could discuss those killed or injured due to the complete lack of body armor or inadequate body armor.  How many servicemembers and/or their families had to resort to buying their own armor?

      How many US and coalition servicemembers have been killed in these wars?  How many Iraqi and Afghan civilians have been killed?

      Please don’t use the term “blood on their hands” again until you can justify these points.

      • Gregg Smith

        I justified it partially up top but I did not include all the pleas and subsequent denials for security. I focused more on the lies which should outrage you. 

        Don’t talk to me about Iraq and Afghanistan as they are irrelevant and in the case of Afghanistan ongoing. Just say Cheney killed a million Iraqis with his bare hands if you want, it does not excuse this travesty.

        • hennorama

          Wow. “…Iraq and Afghanistan are irrelevant…” Wow.

          Mr. Romney and Mr. Ryan are both using the deaths and injuries to Americans, on foreign soil, for political purposes. This is reprehensible.

          Mr. Romney did not even wait until the status, much less the whereabouts, of Amb. Stevens and the others killed and injured in Benghazi were known before issuing a statement asserting that “… the Obama administration’s first response was…to sympathize with those who waged the attacks.”

          The families of those killed and injured had not yet been notified, yet Mr. Romney decided this was a great time to issue a statement that was false, with a scrambled timeline.

          This was and is disgusting.

          Of course it is horrible that our ambassador and other Americans were killed. Yes, we want to know what happened so that it won’t be repeated. But to use these deaths for political purpose is reprehensible.

  • 1Brett1

    Whew, the usual suspects are at it today…In a way, it is a comfort to know everything is in its place on this Friday morning. 

    • Gregg Smith

      TGIF

  • NewtonWhale

    “The only way you can find $5 trillion in loopholes is to cut the mortgage deduction for middle-class people,” Biden continued.

    When Ryan denied the Romney plan would raise taxes on the middle class, Biden said, “Not mathematically possible.”

    “It is mathematically possible. … Jack Kennedy lowered tax rates, increased growth,” Ryan said.

    “Oh, now you’re Jack Kennedy,” Biden said, rolling his eyes and continuing to evoke memories of the ’88 debate, during which Bentsen told Quayle, “Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy, I knew Jack Kennedy, Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you’re no Jack Kennedy.”
    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/biden-ryan-oh-now-jack-kennedy-015910917–election.html
    That’s when it dawned on me.
    No, Joe, Paul Ryan is not JFK.
    He’s the illegitimate love child of Eddie Haskell and Eddie Munster.

    • Ray in VT

      I think that the Romney-Ryan ticket could solve a lot of the criticism on the tax plan issue if they would be willing to list what loopholes and such they are going to close or eliminate.  I know that their supporters will say that that will be worked out in Congress blah, blah, blah.  Well, if that is the case, then they should be willing to to live with the criticism.  Also, I don’t see a whole lot of validity in that argument, as one can lay out a plan, put it on the table, and then revise or change it later in the negotiation process.

      • Mike_Card

        This has been the R/R approach to everything:

        “Oh, well, everything always gets negotiated anyway, so there’s no sense worrying your empty little heads about it.  Vote for Willard and Eddie cuz they’re good-looking white guys who will keep your best interests at heart.  Cross our hearts and hope to die.”

      • TinaWrites

        And they need to DEFINE what they means by “middle class” when they talk about these “loopholes”.  I’ll bet that the bottom line shifts on that one, and that the mortgage interest deduction might begin as low as $50,000!  Also, people bought their houses based one their knowledge about that deduction amount!  

        • TinaWrites

          I meant $50,000 in family income.  

    • William

       Yes, Thank God that Paul Ryan is not JFK.

      • StilllHere

        Womanizing, drug addict.  Yeah.

    • StilllHere

      Quayle became VP, Bentsen went back to obscurity.  Biden will be there soon!

      • sickofthechit

        Dreamer!

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        Quayle is still the 10 watt bulb in the hundred watt socket of every advantage his daddy gave him. He’s a punchline. All the right-wing media fluffing and wingnut welfare in the world can’t rehab his reputation.

      • BHA_in_Vermont

         Quayle who? Mr. Potatoe?

    • Gregg Smith

      I posted this below. The Princeton Economist they got the number from is pissed. The math works.

      http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/princeton-economist-obama-campaign-misrepresenting-my-study-romneys-tax-plan_653917.html

      • NewtonWhale

        I’ll see your Princeton economist and raise you my Nobel prize winning Princeton economist:

         And the Romney people respond with deep voodoo, invoking the supposed fabulous growth effects from his tax cuts. And who could argue? Remember how the economy tanked after Clinton raised taxes? Remember how great things were after Bush cut them? Oh, wait.

        More seriously, we have lots of empirical work on the effects of tax changes at the top — and none of it supports the Romney camp’s claims. What we’ve just learned is that they were faking it all along. There is no plan to offset the tax cuts; Romney is just intending to blow up the deficit to lavish favors on the wealthy, then use it as an excuse to savage Social Security and Medicare.

        http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/01/dooh-nibor/

      • WorriedfortheCountry

         Must be some fun times in the Princeton faculty lounge with that nut job Krugman.

    • Roy-in-Boise

       Yes! Many of us have seen the same resemblance between the young Mr. Munster and Rep. Ryan. Scary stuff.

    • TinaWrites

      I don’t know if you saw my comment a few weeks ago,  and ran with it?!!  Or, if you came to your comment independently??!  Just a reminder about my comment  when Tom said that we weren’t in Leave It To Beaver Land anymore when Clockwork Orange Came Along as a Movie:

      I saw Clockwork Orange 5 times in order to write a paper about it for a film class.  As dystopic as it was (and it definitely was!), “Leave It To Beaver” has its OWN dystopic connection that has presented itself to us this many decades later in the form of Paul Ryan.  Paul Ryan is none other than Eddie Haskell, back causing the trouble while pointing his finger of blame elsewhere, all the while smiling his disingenuous smile to the innocent housewife, The Beav’s mom!  

      • NewtonWhale

        I didn’t see your comment, but I suspect that anyone who has seen The Beav would make the connection. The same with Eddie Munster’s widow’s peak. And Romney would be Herman Munster.

        Hey! Google informs me that we are not alone…

        • TinaWrites

          Thanks!!!!!  And, I’m so glad that people everywhere  can recognize supercilious behavior!!!  (Didn’t Ryan seem “cooled down” on that a bit during the VP Debate?  He must have been coached.  That’s the trouble with posting complaints against a candidate: they must have Googlers who find everything that suggests how they need to tweak their candidates to seem more likable or believable, etc.  He DID slip in one place, however:  his voice didn’t peak quite like it often does when he thinks he’s scored one, but it was going that direction, coaching in tow!)  

  • NewtonWhale

    As Bill Clinton said, “it takes some brass to criticize someone for doing what you did”:

    “I love my friend here,” Biden said, noting that Ryan “sent me two letters saying, ‘By the way, can you send me some stimulus money for companies here in the state of Wisconsin?’ ”

    “You did ask for stimulus money?” Raddatz asked.

    “On two occasions, we — we — we advocated for constituents who were applying for grants.”

    “I love that,” Biden pressed, going on to quote from Ryan’s letter saying the stimulus would “create growth and jobs.”

    Biden teased his opponent: “Any letter you send me, I’ll entertain.”

    “I appreciate that, Joe,” the mister replied.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-in-vice-presidential-debate-biden-rattles-ryan/2012/10/12/427cd0c0-1430-11e2-be82-c3411b7680a9_story.html

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

      Paul Ryan is such a Hypocrite. The stimulus package will not help America but he wants some of it to help the State of Wisconsin.

      WOW!!!

      • BHA_in_Vermont

        Find me ANY Senator or Congressman who adamantly claims that they are for smaller government that doesn’t also ask for money from the government for THEIR constituents.

        You see, their constituents are hard working and will make good use of the money to grow the economy, returning more to the government than they took. EVERYONE else is a taker.

  • Joseph_Wisconsin

    Biden brought to the debate with Ryan what Obama should have with Romney.  Pointing out the lies and fairy tales of the Romney/Ryan ticket.

    Romney promises fairy tale economics round three (Round I – Reagan, Round II – GW Bush). So Romney can cut taxes (especially for the rich), increase defense spending, not cut SS or Medicare, and reduce not increase the budget deficit while doing this? Americans seem to love hearing fairy tales and love believing in fairy tales.

    Speaking of Reagan and deception it is worth while to recall something Reagan’s budget director, David Stockman, had to say in a moment of candor in 1981.

    In December 1981, the Atlantic Monthly published an article in which David Stockman made several damaging and embarrassing confessions about the entire supply-side philosophy. He admitted that the 1981 tax cut “was always a Trojan horse to bring down the top [tax] rate” for the wealthy. Cutting taxes for the rich had long ago been coined “trickle down economics” – and it was an unpopular concept with the middle class. “It’s kind of hard to sell ‘trickle down,’” Stockman told the interviewer. “So the supply-side formula was the only way to get a tax policy that was really ‘trickle down.’ Supply-side is ‘trickle-down’ theory.”

    FDR had Romney’s and Ryan’s number before they were even born:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElYNHeL51ZU&feature=player_embedded

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1816544 Dan Trindade

    If you’re frustrated by VP Biden smiling too much during last night’s debate I think you’re just being a sore loser. Good governance is not about being nice its about being effective and getting the best results you can without screwing over the masses too much (Brutal but true). Smiles or no, the man challenged the Republican platform and tore it to pieces while effectively (though admittedly not perfectly) defending the Obama administration’s record. Rep Ryan couldn’t do the same on his end. He lost. Take it on the chin and suck it up already. Bring on the next Presidential debate

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      When the press complains about the tone of a Democrat, that means they’re annoyed that that person is taking their own side in a fight.

      And those complaints typically start with the right’s propaganda press, or the Beltway Inbreds, both of whom consider Joltless Joe Lieberman the kind of Democrat (sic) that Washington needs more of.

    • William

       Tom Brokhaw on VP Biden’s tone “I don’t you should be laughing during a discussion about thermonuclear war with Iran”

      • Steve__T

         When your opponent says something stupid it’s hard not to laugh.

  • TinaWrites

    Regarding Paul Ryan’s story, AT THE VICE PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES, about the family of four whom Romney promised to help by paying their college expenses because a car accident caused two of the children to have spinal cord injuries:  depending on the level of each spinal injury, those college expenses could be absolutely DWARVED by the COST OF LIVING WITH TWO SPINAL CORD INJURIES!!!  

    Additionally, OBAMACARE WOULD NOT ALLOW INSURANCE COMPANIES TO APPLY LIFE-TIME LIMITS to the family’s health insurance.  IF a Romney/Ryan plan ALLOWS LIFE-TIME LIMITS, as they once said they would, the family would have MASSIVE PROBLEMS!!!  

    • DrewInGeorgia

       But it’s okay because Romney will personally pay for their increased costs out of the kindness of his heart…

  • StilllHere

    Exports were down last month, again.  I thought Obama was going to save our economy with exports.  Not realistic or another lie from this criminal administration.  Worst president ever!

    • sickofthechit

       Is your memory so short that you forgot about the cheney/bush admin?

    • jefe68

      You truly are the king of hyperbolic inanity.

    • hennorama

      Hey Mr. Myopic Magoo – let’s look at the big picture:

      Exports (source: http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/international/trade/2012/xls/trad_time_series_0812.xls )

      (figures in millions of dollars)

         Period               Exports      % Change (cumulative)
      2009 Jan – Aug    1,018,992    ——
      2010 Jan – Aug    1,198,648    + 17.6
      2011 Jan – Aug    1,389,532    + 36.4
      2012 Jan – Aug    1,459,551    + 43.2

      Yes “another lie,” if one is looking in the mirror, that is.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/YMV2HJ2TBKMCN2QRAVI3I2OOGM Jim Jim

    Mission Accomplished.

    Biden Killed it. He exposed Ryan/Romney for the serial liars they are. Anyone that missed ‘War Horse’ should check in with last nights debate.

  • StilllHere

    Dems got control of Congress in 06 and the presidency in 08.  What we have witnessed in the ensuing years is a complete failure of leadership.  America do not repeat this mistake that led us to the brink of total demise.

    • MrNutso

      Plenty of leadership, stymied by 60 is the new 51 in the Senate.

      • StilllHere

        If Dems are too dumb to figure out how to lead that’s even more reason to send them home and let the adults do the job.  Your president was woefully unprepared; Hillary warned us.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

          LOL!!! Let the adults do the job!!!

          So let us support the 42 yr old Paul Ryan who is running for class vice president.

        • BHA_in_Vermont

           To lead the way you suggest would mean: “I have the numbers, we do it my way. Shut up and get out of the way”. The GWB way.

          Obama failed to reach his goal of finding common ground with people who, from day one, had a single agenda: “One Term President”. In hindsight, he was naive thinking that the people elected to run the country had any interest in doing so. And that is why the Congress has a 10% positive rating.

          If the Republican definition of “leadership” is bullying, then I guess they all still live in middle and high school.

          Grow up. Government leadership is about getting things done that benefit the most people with the most people possible being happy about the result.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

      LOL!!!

      Yes they are the majority but every time they pass a bill your President Bush vetoed them.

      Beside Democrats do not control the future of the middle class. The President (Bush) controls and DECIDE everything that will happen in the future.

    • jimino

      My family is much better off financially than when Obama took office, as is true of the vast majority of Americans who have saved their money and invested it in the stock market, and rely on a sound dollar and low interest rates to be able to afford a house, car, etc.  Anyone who could conceive of voting in favor of the Republican approach of non-regulation and  low taxation and encouragement of of predatory financial speculation that literally decimated our economy is mind boggling to me.

      What truly disgusts me about what I hear from the “lower taxes on the wealthy” crowd is their expectation that some their fellow citizens, you know, the ones in the “47%” they give lip service to as “heroes”, to literally give their lives to defend their freedom and interests, while openly and brazenly refusing to pay for it.  I truly hate them.  They are like a deadbeat parent who plasters their Porsche with bumper stickers bragging about their kids exploits while refusing to pay child support.

      They are the true “takers” in our country.  I take you for one of them.  I hate them.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

        OMG!!! StillHere you truly CLUELESS with your politics. the 47% are the people who lost their 401k when the Republican Administration didn’t do anything to save the middle class in September of 2008.

        the 47% who gets $60.00 a month for groceries hurt so much for you to help them to buy extra food but you supported 2 Wars.

        I hate them???? You hate the middle class that are struggling from pay check to pay check. I am struggling

        $100 I spent today and it was gone in 30 minutes that took me 8 hours to make. 

        • DrewInGeorgia

           It’s like the people who make $40.00 for a day’s work but have to spend fifteen to twenty dollars in gas to get back and forth. Now here comes The Tin-Foil Hat Brigade to explain that higher gasoline prices are Obama’s Fault while simultaneously telling us that investment in sustainable energy is idiotic.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       The lack of leadership is stunning.

      It is almost like they took the last 2 years off.

      And Obamacare is a disaster.  Even IF you believe in national healthcare I can’t imagine a worse implementation.  It is designed around a house of cards — 10 years of taxes to pay for 6 years of benefits.

  • Yar

    I bet the happiest person in America today is Martha Raddatz.
    Martha you did a great job, thank you for your work.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1816544 Dan Trindade

      Hear hear. Can she just moderate the rest of the debates?

  • StilllHere

    Biden was as crazy as Obama was ignorant.  Who is running the show in the West Wing?  America should be frightened by the dumb nutjobs in the WH.

    • MrNutso

      Americans should be frightened of the snake oil salesmen that want there jobs.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

      Biden was Hillarious. such a real man not like Plastic Paul Ryan. I will never trust a Kid in the White House.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

    Here are some laws that passed by the Obama Administration and These are the laws that Vice President Biden was talking about last night.

    1. The Deficit Reduction Act – You know what means. to reduce cost and reduce the deficit.

    2. Middle Class Tax Relief and Job Creation Act of 2012 –

    These laws are being implemented under Medicare and Medicaid.

  • Bugsyboo

    I found the biggest laugh was Ryan’s claim that the Repubs want bipartisanship.

    Romney/Ryan: Believing the Lies

    • MrNutso

      To them, bipartisanship is “do things our way”.

      • StilllHere

        I believe it was Barrack Hussein who when asked about bipartisanship said, “I won.”  and America has been the loser for 4 years now.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/OJABXDZRZZYGWDY2YV6OZ4U3DU J Z

          What is your problem, dude? You’re clearly a racist idiot! Do you have a problem with people of different faith than you or who have foreign backgrounds? What’s your background so we can demonize your nationality? You’re clearly a backwoods white man who would quickly vote for Hitler if he was still alive.

          You are clearly NOT an American because you clearly don’t understand our history or for what our constitution stands.

        • Bugsyboo

           Yes, it was a smug remark. However, since 2010 the rs have blocked every attempt at cooperation and bipartisanship. They’ve spent the majority of their time voting to repeal healthcare reform and placing limits on women’s rights and voting rights.

          PS it’s Barak, not Barrack.

        • John_in_Amherst

           The GOP, fond of screeching about “the will of the people”, had no problem ignoring the will of the people after the 08 election by requiring a veto-proof majority for nearly every bit of legislation and every appointment put forward by the Obama administration, and using the power of senators to put anonymous holds on approving nominees.  The result was legislative grid-lock, and an enormous backlog of unfilled positions which has hobbled any attempt at progress.  Now, of course, the GOP rant on about the lack of accomplishments.  The strategy of preventing Obama from doing anything and then trying to fault him for not doing anything borders on sedition, yet it was the stated goal of the GOP leadership to do so in the interests of insuring Obama was a one term president. 

      • BHA_in_Vermont

         Yep – GWB, the self proclaimed “uniter” during the 2000 campaign whose tag line after taking office was “my way or the highway”

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

    How can any thinking American believe that Romney will add good paying jobs IN THIS COUNTRY for the middle class?

    Every dollar Romney has in his fortune came from laying off workers and stealing their pensions.

    It defies belief that he is going to be good for the middle class in this country.

    • StilllHere

      Tired and untrue, you should listen to Billy Clinton more on the roll of private equity.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

        Absolutely true.

        Then there’s the backend, stashing his money offshore so he doesn’t have to pay taxes on it.

        Front, back and sideways Romany is ANTI American.

      • DrewInGeorgia

         Calling the man Billy doesn’t make him any less intelligent nor does it make you any more mature.

        • BHA_in_Vermont

           “nor does it make you any more mature”

          We have never seen maturity from this poster.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Do you even believe the BS you write?

      Go talk to the workers at Sports Authority, Staples and many others.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

        Wow, minium wage jobs after mom and pop shops all over the country were put out of business.

        In Romnney’s world ALL THE MONEY GOES TO THE TOP.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           You do understand the Bain typically purchases companies that are in trouble and tries to turn them around.  In many cases they would go under without Bain help.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

            Keep believing the fairy tales you are told by the elite.

          • BHA_in_Vermont

             For the vast majority of Bain purchases the story is:

            Some went under, some were sold off in pieces and some survived with massive cutting of jobs and/or benefits and pay.

            Yep, sounds like a business plan to aid the middle class.

            The execs at Bain personally made big money as compensation for their “management” whether the companies survived or folded. If a company survived, the Bain execs got “deferred interest” from their profits for years afterward, taxed at 15%. THAT is how Romney got rich, not by “creating jobs”. Romney does not know how to create jobs, he knows how to funnel money to people in power.

      • Jasoturner

        You think staples didn’t wipe out local stationers and hire wage slaves do the work instead?  You think the dearth of locally owned sporting goods stores (which were common when I was a kid) is just coincidence?  Wake up man, those jobs just moved down the wage scale as these big corporations moved in.  People didn’t start buying more pens and paper all of a sudden because of staples.  But they had to go to staples when their hometown store got driven out of business.

        A company like EMC is a job creator.  New products and services that others need.  If Staples never existed it would make not a whit of difference in anybody’s life, since locals would serve the market quite ably.  Home Depot and Lowe’s are other cases in point.  They decimated the independent hardware stores as a consequence of their own growth.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/OJABXDZRZZYGWDY2YV6OZ4U3DU J Z

         what’s your point? Last I checked Staples was struggling mightily. I’m sure those minimum wage workers will be the first to get the axe in order to save the millions for their management. I’m sure the executives deserve their million dollar bonuses more than the hourly workers deserve their $0.10 raises.

  • Ray in VT

    Are we going to hear anything about the escalation of violence between Turkey and Syria?

    • StilllHere

      Or how about the news out of Iran’s nuclear program.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

    The whole thing is hard to talk about publicly because rogue CIA is involved. Get a clue.

  • Bugsyboo

     Also, people like to ignore that after Reagan cut taxes, he raised them again.

    • BHA_in_Vermont

       And again, and again, and again.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      When you’re a Republican, you get the title FiscallyResponsibleTaxCutter. It’s a state of being, no matter what actions are taken.

  • NewtonWhale

    Jack Beatty may not be able to imagine that Biden’s demeanor went over well with independents, but actual independents had no such problem:

    Poll: Biden takes debate over Ryan, uncommitted voters say

    Fifty percent of uncommitted voters who tuned into Thursday night’s vice presidential debate in Danville, Ky., said they see Vice President Joe Biden as the winner over Mitt Romney’s GOP running mate Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis., according to an instant poll taken by CBS News.

    Of the 431 polled immediately following the debate, 31 percent deemed Ryan the winner, and 19 percent said they felt it was a tie.

    Party-wise it’s a switch from last week’s presidential debate, which uncommitted voters handed easily to Romney over President Obama.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57531059/poll-biden-takes-debate-over-ryan-uncommitted-voters-say/

    • DrewInGeorgia

      Which is why Biden rolled the way he did in last night’s debate. Everyone was offended that Obama didn’t act the petulant child enough during his debate with Romney, Biden was just giving The People what they asked for.

      • BHA_in_Vermont

         The problem for Obama is if he acts the petulant child, he will be labeled “an angry black man”.

        Screwed if you do, screwed if you don’t.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

          Toles nailed it a year or two ago (like he nails everything): The press has two labels to pin on Obama’s back, and they’re constantly switching the “emotionless Spock” with “angry black man”.

  • TinaWrites

    Paul Ryan’s OWN usual attitude is “supercilious”; he was holding it back, for the most part, last night;  but he does NOT need to be protected, as a frail flower.

  • Bugsyboo

     Magical math.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

    If you are under 55 be very afraid of Romney and Ryan.

    They are going to MAKE SURE YOU GROW OLD IN POVERTY.

    • MrNutso

      This is one of several things that Americans should be thinking about.  Since 2001, my 401k has shown only moderate growth.  In the late nineties I expected to be able to retire at 60-65 years old.  Now it will be at least 70.  Add to that the skyrocketing costs of health care, and the destruction of medicare/medicaid and it makes my future look bleak.

    • StilllHere

      Obama’s criminal debt ensured our nation will be in poverty forever.

      • MrNutso
      • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

        The Rs ran up the debt to benefit the rich.

        I’m no Obama fan but at least he did a stimulus that helped others besides the rich.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

          Now Greg, when Bush II gave loaves to the rich, you and I each got our crumbs, didn’t we?

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

            Never got a thing from the trillions Bush put on the nation’s credit card.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            What about that warm, fuzzy feeling in the mid  ’00s that CNBC sorts gave us telling how the economy was great because corporate profits, the stock market and the well-off were doing well?

            I mean, sure, median income went down during the 5-year Bush II recovery, and all, but wasn’t watching other people act rich on TV worth it?

            (Wow. I can’t believe I typed that wihtout dissolving into laughter.)

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

            You got me there.

            Even the poor live wonderfully on TV.

            And they are my friends because I have no time for friends after a 10-12 hour work day.

            That’s when I have work.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            Actually, I was referring to The Evening News and the cable news’ propensity to think that when the rich are getting richer and Republicans are in power that all is well.

            But that is an intersting tangent about the depiction of the working class on TV fictions. Aside from Bob’s Burgers, there are not many poor families on mainstream network TV.

            Used to be more, such as Roseanne, Malcolm in the Middle, My Name is Earl (just off the top of my head), who had real working class jobs, lifestyles, money issues and plots.

            No way “The Honeymooners” would ever get greenlighted today.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/OJABXDZRZZYGWDY2YV6OZ4U3DU J Z

          Criminal debt? You’re an ignorant fool! Did you forget that war is not free? A billion dollars a day without raising taxes. You’d get thrown in debtors’ prison if you managed your finances that way

        • DrewInGeorgia

           Or made a CEO and given a ridiculous compensation package when the stuff hits the fan.

    • TomK_in_Boston

      The RR agenda is class warfare, that’s for sure.
      Biden did a good job but it still drives me crazy that our current ultra-low tax rates at the top don’t get the attention they deserve. You can’t have a sensible discussion of tax cuts without recognizing that we are starting from a low point. For example, when R mentioned that JFK’s tax cuts stimulated the economy, there was no mention that those were cuts starting from an extremely high rate I agree, cutting very hight ax rates is good, just like cutting very low tax rates is bad. Why does this never come up?

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

        Romney paid just short of 14%. A billionaire paying that rate is criminal.

        Under Romney/Ryan plan Romney won’t pay a dime on capitol gains.

        DO NOT ACCEPT THIS TRANSFER OF WEALTH TO THE TOP AMERICANS.

        • TomK_in_Boston

          Dam right – and Lord R won’t pay much of an estate tax, either. “Starve the beast” is proceeding as planned.

  • JGC

    TRANSVAGINAL ULTRASOUND!  Thank you, now that I have your attention, one brief break from the Ryan/Biden debate analysis.  Have you seen the “Deb Butler for NC Senate” advertisement? (I found it on HuffPost and YouTube.)  She is the Democratic candidate trying to unseat 1st term Republican Thom Goolsby who voted with the majority for one of the most restrictive abortion laws in the country, overriding Democratic Gov. Perdue’s veto of the 2011 law.  Deb Butler is seen in the cable TV ad wielding a pink, 2-foot long transvaginal probe, as she says,

    “I think we need to have a candid conversation about what Thom Goolsby’s policies actually mean to North Carolina women.  He wouldn’t dare show you this, but this is his contribution to women’s health. A medically unnecessary, invasive procedure that is now required by state law.  He promised his first priority would be jobs, but instead he is following you into the doctor’s office.”

    It is a visually powerful message and is as shocking as it was intended to be.  Butler said the transvaginal probe symbolizes interference into intensely personal decisions made by a patient with advice from a doctor.  This is the sort of pathway that Ryan/Romney will take the whole country, if they prevail and appoint Bork-vetted ultraconservative Supreme Court nominees.  Now back to the originally scheduled programming…

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      Tangent: Ryan said “Hey, what’s with the softball questions?” on a road stop with reporters. (I don’t know where, but it was not an ambush. It was friendly, and outside an ice cream shop. But not a Friendly’s.)

      Then someone asked him which abortion policy he and Romney held, and Ryan spit the bit.      

      That’s the danger of someone like Ryan believing his own PR about being a wonk.

    • Bruce94

      Moderator to Ryan:  What role would your religious convictions play in how you would govern?

      Ryan:  I would abolish one of the pillars of our democracy–the separation of Church and State.  In a Romney/Ryan administration you would see this principle disappear.  As for abortion, I want to see abortion prohibited and agree with Todd Akin that either no exception should be made or the exceptions should be drawn even more narrowly.

      Moderator:  How to you square this position with your Church’s anti-contraception stance with which you apparently agree.  In other words, if you’re truly interested in reducing abortion how do explain efforts by you and others to limit a woman’s access to contraception in their health insurance plans?

      Ryan:  I can’t explain it except to say that we will not be bound by the fact-checkers or the facts or common sense in our Far-Right, alternate universe. 

  • MrNutso

    RR’s plan is that the world will magically wake up and respect America if they are elected.

  • BHA_in_Vermont

    Nothing has changed – Romney/Ryan are way off base “getting tough” on Iran. Biden is right, you want to start another disastrous war, go ahead and threaten Iran then attack them if they don’t “come around”.

  • Scott B

    When we hear Romney wanting to increase defense spending, building more ships, more boots, more everything, it should cause deep concern because when someone has that much desire to have a big military, and has said he wants to throw US military leadership around, that’s more than hinting he wants to use it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

    Romney in Massachusetts Bipartisanship. LOL

    He has no choice but to cooperate with the majority of Democrats in Beacon Hill.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/James-Patrick-Dwyer-Jr/100002088204784 James Patrick Dwyer Jr.

    I hope the pres was taking notes, Joe showed him how it’s done.

  • sickofthechit

    Romney’s comments about the 47% were not mistakes in wording. If you look at the video he was speaking from notes on the podium in front of him!

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

      Of course it wasn’t a mistake.

      It’s only a mistake to Romney because now some of the 47% who are extremely uninformed and were going to vote for him might not after being thoroughly insulted by him.

  • BHA_in_Vermont

    If you drop tax rates AND deductions/loopholes THERE IS NO tax cut. Romney and Ryan are liars.

    • Ray in VT

      But you can say that you cut rates.  If there isn’t supposed to be additional revenue, then it would at least be flat, but considering that federal revenues as a share of the GDP are at a 60 year low, I don’t see how more revenue can be off of the table if you want to get us back in the black and work towards paying down the debt.

      • BHA_in_Vermont

         But Romney has said all along that he will CUT TAXES. He recently started saying his tax plan would would not increase the debt/deficit.

        Mathematically impossible by cutting RATES unless you also increase the amount of income that is taxed. You either need to get rid of deductions and loopholes that remove income from the the “taxable income” line

        or have more people pay taxes.

        More people paying taxes comes in 2 forms:
        1) Tax those who are not now paying taxes: the entitled 47% who see themselves as victims.
        2) People get jobs.
        Though Romney repeats it ad nauseum, giving the so called “job creators” a tax rate cut (whether or not you cut loopholes and deductions) is not going to incentivize them to create jobs if there is no demand for the goods and services they would create. If they still have a going concern after the economic collapse, it is because they are smart enough to know you don’t stay in business making things you can’t sell. If they aren’t that smart, they went out of business years ago.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/OJABXDZRZZYGWDY2YV6OZ4U3DU J Z

    Interesting differences in age and birthplace between Ryan and Biden. Ryan is younger and from the Midwest where people are cordial and don’t talk out loud about issues. Biden is older and from back east where people speak more passionately and openly about issues.

    I’m not sure why people feel “offended” by Biden’s style. Similarly people can also be “offended” by Ryan’s lack of passion or details.

    I appreciated Biden’s passion and attention to details, while I was disappointed with Ryan’s lack of details and pure towing the party line while claiming that EVERYTHING the Obama administration has done is wrong. What would Romney/Ryan do differently? No answer! I just have trouble voting for a team that has no answers, no details, and changes their positions on issues on a whim. I’d rather here Romney/Ryan give specifics so I can decide on one set of plans versus another.

    At this point, I’m still for Obama/Biden.

  • MrNutso

    Libya:  The news and campaign cycle dictates and immediate statement of what happened.  It would have been better to just say they don’t know what happened and will figure it out.  Unfortunately, Americans needs instant gratification. 

    • StilllHere

      The Administration needed an instant CYA explanation then deflection then plausible deniability then Friday night walk-back then photop with Beyonce.

      • sickofthechit

         Perhaps it was more important to spend resources trying to track down the perpetrators, and perhaps the best way to do that is to make them think you don’t know they did it. Have none of you  Bengazi critics ever played poker?

  • Scott B

    Ryan said that Romney wanted to reduce the number of servicemen, yet Romney said at VMI he wants to increase the size of the military. Those extra ships, including the 3 subs a year, cost billions to operate and crew, and the Pentagon hasn’t asked for them. 

    Romney and Ryan better start reading from the same script.

     Einstein said:”You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war.”

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/OJABXDZRZZYGWDY2YV6OZ4U3DU J Z

    hjgj

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=682885670 Gretchen Lynch Gallagher

    As an NPR listener, I listened to the debate last night. Doing so allowed me to hear what the men were saying without getting all involved with how they were saying it or what they looked like while doing so. 

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/X5J5RKNLGS5D4CLTMJRETQMWBU Andrea

    Military spending has got to be curtailed. We will soon be perceived as a bully. You do not build a military like ours unless you plan to use it.

    • Bugsyboo

       We ARE perceived as a bully.

  • MrNutso

    Romney thinks he’s wrong, because he got caught speaking the truth.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

    Romney is wrong, on everything.

    Obama is wrong, on most everything.

    There’s your choice America.

    Good luck.

    But Biden won the debate by a long shot.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       That’s why we have Jill Stein and Gary Johnson to vote for.  If we continue voting for the two major corruptions, we get what we deserve.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

        I’m with you Bro.

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

           I would love to see the Greens and the Libertarians working out their ideas toward a compromise in Congress and the Presidency.  They’re the only parties talking about what would be good for all people, not just for special interests.

          • J__o__h__n

            This is simplistic.  Other than foreign policy and civil liberties, these parties have nothing in common.  95% of the Libertarian agenda is not good for all of the people.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/OJABXDZRZZYGWDY2YV6OZ4U3DU J Z

         Best comment on this blog, period! We should abolish all the parties and have everyone run as an independent so that they would be forced to lay out their plans for what they would do.

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

           That was the original intent of the Constitution.  The Founders didn’t want a Parliamentary system.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=507593666 Josh DeYoung

         Greg C, I have seen a lot of the things you post here and I’ll admit that most of it I disagree with you. But on this point I could not agree more! I just wish Jill and Gary would take the best of each others ideas and work together.

  • Bruce94

    Moderator to Ryan:  Do you or do you not advocate a $5 trillion tax cut that will have to be be paid for by middle-class tax hikes or by exploding the national debt as they were under Reagan and Bush?

    Ryan:  I believe Romney clarified that in the first debate. Do you have the transcript?

    Moderator:  Here it is.  Paraphrasing now he said, “Of course not.”  And after being pressed by Obama to own his own plan, Romney added, “You don’t expect me to be bound by the fact checkers or the facts for that matter, do you?  I’m running for President for Pete’s sake.”

  • Scott B

    I can’t cut my income and still pay for the basics of life, never mind my debts. So how is it that Romney and Ryan think they can?  It reminds me of the SNL skit where Reagan is talking about cutting taxes and paying for his higher spending budget with the  “THREE HALVES” of the reduced income. 

  • Yar

    Jack, you got it wrong on the president bringing up the 47 percent.  Mitt Romney was prepared to stamp it down.  Had he brought it up then, you would not still be talking about 47 percent.  Some cards have more value in your hand than on the table.

  • s …

    I think Martha won the debate… makes Lehrer look like a spineless jellyfish… it’s ridiculous it’s been 20 years since a female moderator.

  • Scott B

    That Romney and Ryan are mum on details either says they have no plan, or they’re going to spring something very bad on the majority of people that can least afford to pay more and loose what little they have.

  • NewtonWhale

    Yes, Jack. Leadership is all about bullying and lying.

    How did that work out when Bush and Cheney lied us into Iraq?

    Pundits like you regularly insult the intelligence of voters by elevating style over substance. I suspect you were all picked on in high school by bullies like Bush and Romney and envied their ability to get their way.

    It’s one of the reasons we cannot have a meaningful discussion of actual policy differences.

    Former Classmates Recall Romney Attack on Gay Student

    “He can’t look like that. That’s wrong. Just look at him!” an incensed Romney told Matthew Friedemann, his close friend in the Stevens Hall dorm, according to Friedemann’s recollection. Mitt, the teenaged son of Michigan Gov. George Romney, kept complaining about Lauber’s look, Friedemann recalled.A few days later, Friedemann entered Stevens Hall off the school’s collegiate quad to find Romney marching out of his own room ahead of a prep school posse shouting about their plan to cut Lauber’s hair. Friedemann followed them to a nearby room where they came upon Lauber, tackled him and pinned him to the ground. As Lauber, his eyes filling with tears, screamed for help, Romney repeatedly clipped his hair with a pair of scissors.

    http://crooksandliars.com/diane-sweet/former-classmates-recall-romney-attack

    • sickofthechit

       I clicked “Like” on this, but I was sickened by the description.  What a coward Romney is, just like cheney/bush.

  • LinRP

    Jack and other pundits– STOP IT! STOP IT! STOP IT!!!!! You think that Romney displayed more LEADERSHIP because of a theatrical performance in one debate??? A performance filled with lies and obfuscation???

    Meanwhile, the President is was made to look weak? The same President who got Osama Bin Laden, brought us back from the brink of economic collapse, is doing his best to try and provide health insurance to our population??? YOU CALL THAT WEAK????

    That’s what is the matter with journalism today. That you create the sense that one performance is now the bellweather by which the most important presidential election in generations should be measured. It’s nonsensical and completely irresponsible. Shame on you.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Name a lie please.  I have a list of 8 whoppers Obama told.

      Listen.  Obama was the same Obama we see in the rare press conferences he does.

      Romney was the same Romney I have seen in town halls.

      btw – the ‘big lie’ accusation made by Obama that Romney has been touting his tax plan for 18 months and then Mitt shows up with a NEW plan.

      NO! Romney came out with his tax plan on Feb. 21, 2012.  That was 5 months ago, not 18 months ago.  Also, EVERYTHING Romney talked about in the debate on his tax plan was identical to the plan he released on Feb. 21.  So the charge that Obama is making is just plain wrong.

      I think Obama supporters (and even Obama) are having difficulty because what Romney talked about doesn’t match what they loaded into Obama’s teleprompter.

      • LinRP

        The lies and obfuscations have been detailed for you by any number of people in this discussion over many months. People, unlike me, who are far more patient and kindly willing to engage with your trolling for reaction or your deliberate deafness.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           So are you saying the Romney tax reform plan he described at the debate is DIFFERENT than the plan he released on February 21, 2012?

          It is a simple question.

          The fact is that it IS the same plan.

          Obama and Axelrod want you to believe it is different because they are deceitfully attacking their opponents character.

          This is sleazy politics 101.

          It disgusts me and I will call it out with no regrets.

  • sickofthechit

    What will he do differently? Get more Dems elected to Congress!

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Hey Jack,
    Under the Obama plan the interest on the debt is the largest expenditure in a few years.

    Poof — nothing left for domestic spending and the middle class are hosed.
     

    • sickofthechit

      Borrowing costs for America are at an incredibly low historical rate. Means it is time to invest in ourselves.  Rebuild infrastructure, massive jobs programs. As they say in “Guts” never cheaper!

      Give the wealthy with overseas accounts the opportunity to bring their wealth home into zero interest Treasuries or be taxed at 35% for any overseas assets.

      • WorriedfortheCountry

         The duration on the debt is under 8 years.

        Imagine rolling over all the $16-$20T of ‘free debt’ at 5% or 8% over the next few years.

    • Davesix6

      Not only that, but as Ryan pointed out last night, the tax bill is comming due and there is not enough money to tax among the wealth to pay.
      When this tax bill comes due the burden is going to fall, as it always does, on the middle class to pay.

      • Bugsyboo

         There’s not enough revenue because of the tax cuts and two wars that were not paid for.

        End the tax cuts and end the wars.

        • Gregg Smith

          Bogus.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

      TAX THE RICH.
      END THE WARS.Even a simpleton can say it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/luke.held.9 Luke Held

    Owning a house is the “american” dream.  Maybe it’s time to reconsider.  Many other countries throughout Europe are happy with rental.  Not owning a house also saves lots of money in property taxes.  Something to consider.

    • sickofthechit

       Somebody has to pay the taxes which then get passed through to the renter.

    • ThirdWayForward

      It doesn’t save any money in property taxes. The owners of buildings pay the taxes and simply pass them on to renters.

      Home ownership is a Good Thing for two main reasons:
      1) It promotes stable communities where people feel that they have a longer term stake in things.
      2) It provides a way for families to save money, to build up their savings, which they would not otherwise do. When the house is paid off, then that is a major need that is taken care of if one loses one’s job or retires.

      There is also no advantage to renting, unless you plan to move within about 5-6 years.

      3) Here in the Boston area, rents are as high or higher as taking on a mortgage. The rentier class takes heavy profits from renting out buildings. Renting is no bargain.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

    Someone did the math on R/Rs adding 12 million job claim and their tax cuts for the rich not adding toward the deficit.

    To plug the hole the R/Rs are going to shoot through the budget the jobs would have to pay about $450,000 EACH.

    We’ll be lucky they pay $30-40 thousand. IF we even add half that many jobs.

    It’s all a crock.

    • William

      Where are those 5 million green jobs?

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

        “Green job growth has increased during the Obama Administration, and green jobs have grown faster than jobs in all sectors,” said Jonathan Rothwell, one of the Brookings researchers who wrote the report.

        I’d rather have money go to green jobs then to Exxon destroying our Gulf.

        • sickofthechit

           It was BP that destroyed the Gulf.  Exxon is busy Fracturing the mainland.  Damage to be determined and realized at a late enough date that they will be on to the next boondoggle before those chickens come home to roost!

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

            Right, forgot.

             BP CEO Tony Hayward hung for that didn’t he?

        • William

          Take away that 90 billion dollars in tax subsidies to the green energy would it still be “growing”? Will green energy survive without billions in tax subsidies? Did it create the 5 million jobs as promised?
          I would rather back an proven energy source than energy sources that don’t produce reliable, cheap, 24/7 power.

          • DrewInGeorgia

             You’d rather continue to repeatedly shoot yourself in the foot? Why am I not surprised?

          • Ray in VT

            I would rather push for green, or even greener, energy, than build more coal plants, or expand current ones without compelling them to clean up their act, in the Midwest that will continue to drop acid rain on my region.  We can get cheap on the front end, but it has other costs down the road.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            I always wondered, does cleaning up after the BP oil spill count as hiring “green workers”, or are those “more good jobs from our extractive energy overlords”?

          • Ray in VT

            There was a great line on 30 Rock about how BP heroically lubed the gulf or something.  It was nice.  They also have a story line about Paul Ryan having been born in Kenya which made my wife and I laugh.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            “Lubed the gulf”?

            Heehee. That’s right up there with image ads from oil companies touting court-mandated cleanup efforts.

            In our hose that’s called The Clapping Dolphin Ad, as it invariably features a cavorting dolphin thanking its petrochemical overlords.

          • William

             Electric power has lifted millions of people out of poverty. I’m not against green power but I don’t see why it is more expensive to produce power than coal, gas or oil. Why is it so expensive? Additionally, I’m more worried about people being able to afford to pay their electric bill. Unless green power gets it’s cost down  and becomes a 24/7 power source it will never be a serious source of electric power.

          • Ray in VT

            It has, but it has also had some unfortunate consequences when that power has come from sources like coal.  The acid rain problem has been somewhat reduced due to government action, but there are still lakes dying in the Adirondacks because of it.  There are still warnings against eating some fish in the Northeast due to Mercury contamination.  There are still people who are having their forest resources dying due to acid rain.  It’s great for the Midwest to burn coal, but what about those of us downwind?

            I think that we can do a lot through some easy and smart conservation and though better building design.

            The problem with green is that it can’t provide base load, 24/7 power, but it can help.  As to why it’s more expensive.  Uncertain production, poor ability to store, etc.  Those are real too, and I think that anyone with an ounce of sense will admit it, but I think that part of our problem is that we’ve had it cheap (although maybe not when long term impacts are also figured in), and it has made us wasteful.

            I think that some of the costs will come down over time with technology advances, but it is likely to be expensive more some time.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

            There is no choice really.

            Unless you want to burn up on earth.

            Hear that’s not what it’s cracked up to be.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            Someone want to take a crack at getting through  WilliamWorld’s thick skull that the “natural” cost of coal and other extractive fuels doesn’t show up in the electricity rates thanks to my tax dollars?

          • William

             You seem pretty cold towards people that have problems paying their electric bill.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            So, “subsidizing green energy” is bad because it costs taxpayers, but “subsidizing brown energy” tons more is something we need to keep doing because people can’t afford it.

            Good luck getting a seat at the adult table this Thanksgiving. Pick one loser meme and stick to it, dumbass.

            I just hope you’re not as much a bore in real life as you are here.

          • Bugsyboo

             Take away those tax subsidies for oil and gas companies that make 100% in profits.

          • William

             Take them away and watch the smaller oil and gas drillers go out of business.

          • Ray in VT

            Isn’t that just the free market working?  I’m not being glib.

          • Bugsyboo

             The subsidies go to the corps, not the small businesses. I doubt the corps pass on the profits to the small businesses.

          • Steve__T
    • MrNutso

      And BTW, if there is no governmental action, we are on target to create 12,000,000 jobs in the next four years.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

    I encountered a Mormon in the Philippines.
    They always visited my house to convince my mother to convert.

    My mother is a well educated person from a Private Catholic school.
    She welcomed the Mormons with open arms and fed them.

    My mother’s experienced was actually funny with those Mormons.

    After a month of my mother’s experienced with the Mormons.
    One day she asked me if those white dude came back tell them we are broke and we have no food to feed them.

    My mother noticed that they were just their to lunch and nothing more.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      I hesitate to ask but is there a relevant point to your story?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

        Remember what Biden said last night?

        Where is your common sense?

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

         The relevant point is Mormons are moochers.

        They take and take and take and take care of only their own.

      • s …

        If elected, Romney will take all of our dried fish and rice and give them to the one percent obviously.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

        Common sense.
         
        If Romney a Mormon who pretend to be a family man I think his religion should not be fleecing the people from the Third World Country.
         
        if the majority of Mormons are Rich.

        They should help the poor not the poor helping or feeding them.
         
        This is the relevant point of my story.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

      My neighbor got the same visits but different dish

      Even my poorest neighbor had to feed those Mormons dried fish and rice and guess what? they actually ate those dried fish.

  • Kimalamb

    In order to win this election, Obama will not only need to demonstrate some level of interest in the next debates, he may actually have to participate.  He needs to challenge Romney’s ever changing positions and stop trying to remain calm.  The ship is sinking.  Yes, it’s okay to show a bit of concern now.

  • Davesix6

    Speaking of specifics, what is President Obama’s plan for the future, and why isn’t anyone asking him about it?

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       It is amazing.

    • StilllHere

      Socialist, Muslim paradise?

      • Bugsyboo

         Obama is not a Muslim, he’s some Christian branch. Socialism would be a great thing for this country, but Obama believes in capitalism.

        You’re either greatly misinformed or just an ass.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

          I’ll go with “his racist friends chortled with him and now he thinks it’s a laugh line”.

          Of course, it’s amazing that nobody on the right is a racist, nor are any of their friends, but we still get this horsecrap and the inevitable NotARepublican’s excuse, “I see by how everyone’s reacting poorly to it that I was joking”.

        • StilllHere

          a)  he doesn’t go to church and studied the Koran
          b)  he believes the government is the solution to everything, partly because it’s all he knows

          • Bugsyboo

            By your logic, studying a religious text would then make you a follower of that religion. If a Christian studies the Old Testament that would mean he’s Jewish.

            Socialism is not a belief in government, it’s a system of communal benefit. In countries where there is a socialist gov’t there is more equality.

            Government is part of the solution to social problems. Social problems are resolved with three legs of a stool: government, private, and non profit orgs working together.

          • Bugsyboo

             From http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/socialism?s=t: a theory or system of social organization  that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

          • JAIBEEZ

            I don’t go to church and I have studied the Quran. I’m not Muslim. But, if I was, it wouldn’t make me less of an American, or qualified candidate for any job. That is discrmination.

            Obama doesn’t think that and has never made any comments, OR ACTIONS, suggesting he does.

            But the government is more apt to help the people than corporations. We can either let the people run this company- I mean country- via our elected officials, or we can let corporations do it.

            There’s a fine line between capitalism and letting a small group accumulate all the wealth and dominate the people and the govt.
            Do you want corporations in control of the country (more than they already are) or the govt? The right wing agenda will allow them to run wild to the point where they ARE the govt, where we are all slaves to corporations. Our only hope is to fight for MAN…which means the Dems are our only hope.

            It amazes me how the corporate drones like Romney (didnt even look like a human in that debate) actually get some people to believe ANYTHING they do is in the interest of you or the country they “love” so much.

            You really, really, REALLY are in for a rude awakening if you think so. Hey, it may be to late, and if it is, so be it – LET IT REIGN- because we created this monster. But, if there is a chance, it’s definitely with Obama. He hasn’t been everything we HOPED for, but reality says that was unrealistic. Yet and still he has the ability to go down as our greatest president ever.

          • TinaWrites

            Thank you for expressing your thoughts so well!  The only thing I would differ with, is I would hope that our greatest president would lean definitely toward being a democratic-socialist, as I say so often here.  In those moments when I know I need to be more realistic, I’d wish I could say things as well as you did.  Thank you!  

        • DrewInGeorgia

          It’s not an either/or proposition with this one.

        • John_in_Amherst

           or both

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

        Obama IS A CORPORATIST.

        I would think a Right Winger like you would LOVE THAT.

        • DrewInGeorgia

           All the nut-jobs would love Obama if he weren’t an African-American Kenyan Born Muslim Socialist…lmao

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            You forgot the baggage he carries around…of being a Democrat.

            The wingnuts would carve out a lot of acceptability for a black centrist with something not-far-removed from Obama’s policy proposals (aka many of the GOP’s proposals from 20 years ago) if only Obama were a Republican.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

    What is a $100.00 today in American Economy.
     
    1. Gas $30.00 – full tank
    2 Food $25.00 -  i went to Stop and Shop on the discount aisle and got some $1.00 or $2.00 products that’s worth 25 bucks.
     
    3. Hair Cut $15.00 – the cheapest I can get.
     
    4. $30.00 bucks for myself still holding on to it dearly
     
    total $100.00
     
    It took me 8 hours to make $100.00 but spent it in 3 hours or less.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

      And that gas money went straight to some Arab sheik in the Middle East.

      Notice that R/R keep saying NORTH AMERICAN ENERGY INDEPENDENCE.

      Why?

      Because the U.S. used our oil up. Really, truly deniers, it’s pretty much gone. So they mean Canada and Mexico.

      Time to move on to clean energy unless you want to spend the rest of your life making the Arab sheiks billionaires and waste trillions fighting in the Middle East 

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      $30 for a full tank?

      You haven’t filled up lately unless you have a motorcycle?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

        Very Funny!!!

        I drive a 4 cylinder 2001 Ford ZX2. I think the tank is 8 to 9 gallons full.

        Try to argue with me when you got no clue with my real life.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           Chill bro.  I just want to know where I can get a good deal.

          I have a Camry and it cost me $55 to fill up yesterday.  Fortunately it is a hybrid so I can go a little longer between fill ups.

    • sickofthechit

       I bought a $25 pair of hair clippers and have spent nothing on haircuts for seven years now. It is short, but comfortable, and I am told I have a great looking head!

      • Ray in VT

        I haven’t paid for a haircut in years either.  My last two barbers were both old WWII vets, and there’s not many of them left.  There aren’t a whole lot of barber shops either, and I do not want to go to a salon.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/OJABXDZRZZYGWDY2YV6OZ4U3DU J Z

       I feel for you and personally feel incredibly lucky to not have to live on such an edge. I think it’s important for all of us to understand how many people live on the financial edge like you.

      It seems like the Republican party thinks it’s your fault that you don’t make much more. America is the land of opportunity, right? How come everyone doesn’t get an elite college degree and make a six-figure income right out of college? Probably because they are lazy and want to live on government handouts.

      Many elite think they have earned their wealth while many of them just inherited it. They claim to be true Americans yet pay their illegal alien house cleaners under the table and love to shop at places like Wal-Mart, Amazon.com, and Target – where you can get ultra-cheap prices on items made for pennies in foreign countries, rather than buying American-made products. We don’t want to pay higher prices or pay Americans the wages they NEED to survive in our economy.

      Capitalism is fine when you’re at the top, but eventually we all lose out. Who is going to pick the strawberries, clean our houses, build our neighborhoods, etc. when we kick out all of the illegal aliens. Who can afford strawberries for $10 a quart if we paid American wages?

      I don’t know the answer to our economic problems, but it sure seems like we’re gaining speed as we spiral down the drain.

      • William

         There is no other economic system that has uplifted more people out of poverty than capitalism.

        • Ray in VT

          That is true.  To paraphrase Churchill, it’s the worst form of economic organization, except for all of the others.  That having been said, though, I think that it needs to be regulated in such a way so as to curb the worst sorts of excesses that the system creates while still providing the most benefits.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

          I’ll remember that should any socialists show up on this turf.

          Really, your habit of knocking down strawmen isn’t the training you think it is.

        • Bugsyboo

           Then why are there 47 million people in the US who are living in poverty?

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Obamanomics!!

          • Ray in VT

            Yup, it was totally “Obamanomics” that caused the loss of 6.745 million jobs from July 2008 to June 2009.

          • StilllHere

            Have you been asleep the last 4 years Rip?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

        Actually I have a College degree.

        My problems started when my Employeer did not give me a salary raise for 3 years. They only gave me a raise this year 2012.

        Prices are going up Except my pay check one big reason i am struggling but at least I still have a job.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=507593666 Josh DeYoung

    If you feel like Romney and Ryan just might be too two-faced for you here is some good evidence you are right.  roboromney.com/

  • barbbash

    The physical setup of last night’s debate was, I think, an important factor in helping the moderator to keep things under control. Rather than being seated below the stage, far away from two candidates who were standing far above, the moderator was seated at the same table with them, on an equal footing with the candidates and thus able to exert control. Which she did it, most effectively. That should become the standard physical arrangement for TV debates. The additional advantage of her being a woman made it impossible for either candidate to defy her, because he would be seen to be bullying her. So let’s also have more moderators who are women!

    • s …

       I agree 100%, I think it made for a more productive debate, and I loved how she was able to shut them down and move on to the next topic when each tried to jam more of their own rhetoric in.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

        It was the setup for the VP debate in 2004 also.

  • libraryshortcake

    Way to go, Joe! Ryan looked phony and childish, but more important than appearance was his lack of details or coherent plans. Just like Romney, he criticizes foreign policy, but what do they want? To start ANOTHER unilateral occupation/war that we can’t afford in the Middle East? They suddenly claim to be champions of small business and the middle class yet lay out NO plan that makes mathematical sense, and still cling to the idea that Romney, billionaires, and corporations should pay absurdly low taxes. Phony baloney, or as Joe would say, “malarkey.”

  • libraryshortcake

    Oh, and I literally LOL’ed at the Romney-as-benefactor story. Someone from his church whom he NEVER MET (sounds like a tight knit community) suffered a family tragedy, and Romney offered to pay for college. Generous indeed, but what is the moral of the story? If you suffer a tragedy, you’d better hope that a millionaire stranger magically appears to help out, especially if you have no (or sub-par) healthcare? What the?

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

      I know. Really.

      Moral of the story, Romney paid for tuition for two kids while he wants to cut aid for millions of kids?

    • DrewInGeorgia

       I was thinking the same thing in regards to Romney not knowing his fellow church-goers. I don’t think “Where two or more are gathered in my name” equates to the Fort God that many think of as church. So far as I can tell most “successful” churches have become nothing more than big business.

    • William

       I think the interesting part of this story is we never hear anything similar about Obama. Nothing…zero…it is like he has no compassion to help anyone unless it involves other people’s money.

  • ThirdWayForward

    If we are not mistaken, we are getting a conservative woman moderator for Tuesday’s presidential town hall “debate”. Judging from her comments on CNN after the last debate, we do not expect her to be neutral.

    More women moderators would be fine, but we felt that the last questions last night on personal feelings of religion and abortion and on how the candidates feel “as men” were way off topic.

    She was better than Jim Lehrer by any measure.

    David Gregory by far has been the worst moderator of any of the political debates we have watched. We now have a gut reaction whenever we see his face on TV. This shallow scoundrel has no business being in journalism, and it is people like him who debase politics.

    • jimino

      I was hoping that finally someone would ask those who take Ryan’s position how much time in prison would a woman or her doctor serve when they make abortion illegal.  Maybe they can ask Romney next week.

  • ThirdWayForward

    We have a far, far better picture of what Obama is about and what he will do than we do for Romney, who has evaded giving specifics ON EVERY SINGLE ISSUE.

    Romney is running as a stealth candidate.
    Trust me, and we’ll figure it out and let you know what we will do after the election.

    The Republicans did this in Wisconsin and Ohio and won the governorships and legislatures. Once they got power, they tried to ram through their radical right agenda of smashing the unions. You cannot trust the right. They have no scruples and will say anything to get elected. There is little direct connection to what they say they will do and what they will actually do.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1454502239 Richard Cary Horner IV

    In the state of Tennessee, if you’re suspected of drunk driving, law enforcement give you a field sobriety test. It was ruled that breathalyzers were inconclusive so they don’t administer that anymore. If you fail the field sobriety test, they give you the option of taking a blood test. If you deny the blood test, it is automatic “implied consent” and you will get the mandatory minimum, license revocation of 11 months, 59 days, in front of a judge.

    In this country, we are innocent until proven guilty, PROVEN GUILTY. Despite all the mounting evidence against him, Lance Armstrong still has not been proven guilty and as such, does not deserve to lose a single metal. The fact that he denied to pursue this case implies NOTHING except potential guilt in the minds of many. This is egregious, circuitous logic designed to prosecute at will, put money in the coffers of the legal system, strip otherwise deserving honors from great people, and further whittle away at our rights. Reasonable suspicion, no matter how great, with no official proof of evidence is no means to a sentencing end.

    • sickofthechit

       I think you will find that the DUI law in TN is tied into your consent to be governed by it when you get your license or drive on their roads. I have no sympathy for someone who drinks, then drives and want to finagle their way out it with legal representation.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FSTN5453LFVPU44EFDT4H5G33U Domenico

    Joe Biden did a superb job at exposing the RyanRomney snake oil. However he failed to bring up a key issue.

    On the Oct. 4, 2012 PBS NewsHour, an economist stated that corporations are sitting on TWO trillion dollars in cash. Quite frankly, I cannot believe that both Obama and Biden have been completely silent about these scandalous, irresponsible corporate actions that have so undermined the economic recovery. Every time that the poor economy comes up, Obama, Biden and others should look squarely into the camera and state emphatically: “Everyone who is looking for a job should ask himself or herself, ‘Why are corporations sitting on more than $1 trillion in cash–part of which is Federal bailout money?’”

    • StilllHere

      Where in the public sector or academia do you work?

      A)  None of it is bailout money
      B)  Part of it is bank reserves due to new regulations
      C)  Most of it was generated abroad through the foreign subsidiaries of US multinational companies who made and sold goods and services in foreign lands.  Bringing it to the US would incur huge taxes

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        Yep, the all purpose zinger of “you work in the Public Sector or Academia” strikes (sic) again.

        You need a new coach for zingers.

        • StilllHere

          No one except someone who works where merit doesn’t matter nor reality’s shadow ever falls would not know this stuff, even you fact free TF consumer of lowest common denominator media.

      • TomK_in_Boston

        OMG! “Public sector” again, ROTFL.

        You sure do have a lot of free time, StillHere. Somehow I don’t think you’re holding down a high end job of any kind while also working full time at regurgitating righty talking points to On Point. 

        • StilllHere

          I live off the noise in my portfolio, just like you do, right, mr. bunt ‘n miss. 
          Shoot down my points troll.  I’m not impressed by your continual drooling for Barry.

          • TomK_in_Boston

            I’m happy that there is such good internet access in the nursing home.

          • StilllHere

            Probably not as good as what you’ve got in the pedophile wing of your prison.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

            Stillhere you made me laugh today but Tomk in Boston is not what you think he is

    • Bugsyboo

       They’re saving it so they can pay the fines when they finally get caught for their scams.

    • TomK_in_Boston

      He did a good job. He also failed to mention that we are already in an ultra low tax environment for the oligarchs. 

      Just like Cato included “carthage must be destroyed”  in every speech, “tax rates at the top are at or near post-1929 lows and income at the top is at a post-1929 high” should be included in every discussion of tax policy. You can’t appreciate the absurdity of the RR proposal unless you’re very clear on the fact that the 1% are already paying VERY low rates and doing VERY well.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FSTN5453LFVPU44EFDT4H5G33U Domenico

        Yes, Biden failed to point out the utter absurdity of comparing Romney’s proposed 20% reduction in the tax rate, when the marginal rate for multimillionaires is 15%, to the Kennedy and Reagan tax cuts when the highest marginal tax rate was 70% or higher.
        According tohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Recovery_Tax_Act_of_1981#Summary_of_provisionsunder Reagan’s 1981 tax cut, the “top rate dropped from 70% to 50%.”

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Nobel prize committee officially committing satire. Who knew?

    The give the Peace Prize to the European Union?

    4 years years after they give the same prize to Obama — ‘for not being Bush”?

    Wow!!!

    • TinaWrites

      Yes, for not being Bush.  Public transportation is a wonderful thing.  Using it, I had occasion to meet people from the Middle East and Europe:  They all were thrilled with the somewhat reduced hawkishness of President Obama.  Please don’t turn this around as if these strangers are “the bad guys”; nor that I am naive.  They were people whose families were “back home” while the Arab Spring was happening, supporting it; any more, they could not say.  

  • Gregg Smith

    “By the way, they talk about this great recession like it fell out of the sky–like, ‘Oh my goodness, where did it come from?’” Biden said. “It came from this man voting to put two wars on a credit card, at the same time, put a prescription drug plan on the credit card, a trillion dollar tax cut for the very wealthy.”
    “I was there, I voted against them,” Biden continued. “I said, no, we can’t afford that.”
     

    That was Joe Biden last night. He voted for both wars so he lied. Does anyone care?

    “What we have here, I argue, as the rationale for going after Saddam, is that he signed a cease-fire agreement. The condition for his continuing in power was the elimination of his weapons of mass destruction, and the permission to have inspectors in to make sure he had eliminated them. He expelled those inspectors.”  Joe Biden 10/10/02 (video available on request) 

    “If we wait for the danger to become clear, it could be too late.” -Sen. Joseph Biden D-Del., September 4, 2002

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       It was stunning.  I was surprised no one called him this blatant lie directly after the debate.  I guess they were still fixated on the Joker.

      • Gregg Smith

        I agree, however Ryan should have called him on it because the MSM never will. I guess he can’t know everything and didn’t expect such brazenness. That is what made the Romney/Obama debate so good. Obama has never had his points challenged and Romney was unfiltered. 

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           It was tough for Ryan because Biden was using a blitz tactic — blurt out loads of crap all at once.  So it was hard for Ryan to counter everything.

            Also, the moderator kept interrupting Ryan when he was making points. Someone counted 32 times.  Ryan was too polite.  He adjusted but not until the last 1/2 hour.

          • hypocracy1

            Wasn’t that the same tactic Romney used in his debate?  Blurt out loads of crap?

            And you ate that crap right up.. he didn’t even have to sprinkle sugar on it..

            She kept interrupting Ryan because he we trying to pivot off the question and give some non-answer..

          • Gregg Smith

            Biden and Obama both got more air time than Ryan and Romney.

          • anamaria23

            Biden got 1 minute and a few seconds more.

          • Gregg Smith

            Thanks, Obama got about 3 1/2 minutes more. 

          • Gregg Smith

            Do you have a comment on Biden’s lie?

    • StilllHere

      He gets a crazy old man pass!  Who knows what he might do if you pissed him off.  He is completely unstable.

  • JGC

    Romney blinks back crocodile tears while telling an Iowa audience about his chance encounter with former Navy SEAL Glen Doherty:

    “You can imagine how I felt when I found out that he was one of the two former Navy SEALS killed in Benghazi on Sept. 11.  They went there, they didn’t hunker down where they were in safety.  They rushed there to go help. This is the American way – to go where there’s trouble. We go where we’re needed. And right now we’re needed.”

    Ouch!  Nice slick segue from the true heroism of an American to the faux heroism of the Romney/Ryan ticket: “And right now we’re (meaning Romney/Ryan) needed.”  This is the kind of neocon chickenhawk heroism that resulted in a false war in Iraq and will lead us into Iran. 

    • hennorama

      Yes, notice how both Mr. Romney and Mr. Ryan, who have absolutely no military service record, praise those brave servicemembers.

      “We go where we’re needed.”  What a joke.  Mr Romney received 4 draft deferments during the Vietnam War.  He bravely put his church above his country.  HE hunkered down where he was, in France, in safety.

      In 2007, Mr. Romney said that he had “longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam.”  Yes, he proved the exact opposite with his actions.  Instead of going to Vietnam, he went to France.  Instead of serving his country, he protested against anti-war protesters.

      Mr. Ryan also has ZERO military service.

      Hypocritical chicken hawk sabre rattlers.

      • Gregg Smith

        Your point? What is Obama’s military service? Biden’s? Obama is killing Muslims at a pretty good clip, he’s responsible for more military deaths than all former Nobel Peace Prize winners combined. Do you think you’re being a little one sided in your criticism?

        • hennorama

          My criticism is indeed one-sided, as Mr. Romney and Mr. Ryan are the ones using the deaths of Americans for political gain.

          My point is that Mr. Romney and Mr. Ryan are using the deaths of Americans for political gain, in a crass, hypocritical and disgusting fashion. Mr Romney’s comments regarding the Navy SEAL he had met, Glen Doherty, who was killed in Benghazi, was a crass use of the death of this brave man for political gain. Notice the reaction of Glen Doherty’s mother:

          “He shouldn’t make my son’s death part of his political agenda. It’s wrong to use these brave young men, who wanted freedom for all, to degrade Obama,” said Barbara Doherty, the mother of the slain Navy SEAL Glen Doherty.”

          Again, this is part of a pattern, as it is similar to how Mr. Romney used the Benghazi attack for politcal gain, releasing an erroneous statement criticizing the Obama administration on Sept. 11th, before anyone knew Amb. Stevens had died, before anyone knew the status of the other Americans who were wounded and killed, before anyone knew their whereabouts, and before the families of those killed and wounded had even been notified.

          Crass, disgusting, unsympathetic, and hypocritical, especially in light of the fact that neither Mr. Romney nor Mr. Ryan have ever had a single moment of military service.

          Now, they continue their sabre rattling about Syria, Iran, Egypt, Libya, etc., with zero regard for how it impacts those who serve, and their families, especially the families of those who have made the ultimate sacrifice in service to their country.

          Crass, revolting, unsympathetic and disgusting. CRUD.

          • Gregg Smith

            No, you are not being consistent. Romney was honoring the SEAL. Obama sent a freaking form letter. And of course when asked, he stopped and apologized. Jane Horton is the other side of the coin.

            If you want to see an example of using death (Bin Laden aside) for political gain, this is it:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TU3aT6P1bew

            Crass, revolting, unsympathetic and disgusting. CRUD.

          • hennorama

            Gregg, the YouTube video you linked to was not an ad from the President’s campaign but instead was “Paid for by Priorities USA Action and not authorized by any candidate or candidate’s committee.”

            As you very well know.

            I don’t approve of that video either.

            Mr. Romney and Mr. Ryan are using the deaths in Benghazi for political gain. All in their own words, not from any PAC. This is undeniable.

            And I guess you don’t realize the example of Mr. Romney using dead servicemember Greg Horton in his stump speech, again, as is Mr. Romney’s habit, WITHOUT FIRST TALKING TO HIS WIFE, is also using the story of a dead servicemember for political gain.

            Quoting the article you referenced:

            “Horton said nobody from the campaign reached out to her to ask if it was OK for Romney to use her story in his speech, but she is “deeply humbled” by the news.”

          • Gregg Smith

            Again, not consistent. If you don’t think Obama’s silence and tacit approval of that ad was damning then what about Travon Martin? Are you really going to say Obama didn’t use that for political gain. But that’s not the best example. HE USED HIS OWN MOTHER’S DEATH TO HELP PASS OBAMACARE!!!!!!! He lied about it.

          • hennorama

            Pres. Obama commented on the Travon Martin case, back in March, 2012. Ummm… how did this benefit the President politically? Do you think the President was concerned about the Democratic primaries?

            First, Pres. Obama said he had to be careful about his comments due to ongoing investigation, in stark contrast with Mr. Romney’s recklessly popping off about Benghazi when no one even knew that Amb. Stevens had died.

            Here are some of Pres. Obama’s remarks on the matter:

            “I can only imagine what these parents are going through,” he said, “and when I think about this boy, I think about my own kids,” Obama told reporters when asked about the case during a Rose Garden press conference.

            “I think every parent in America should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative to investigate every aspect of this and that everybody pulls together – federal, state and local – to figure out exactly how this tragedy happened,”

            “I think all of us have to do some soul searching to figure out how does something like this happen,” Obama said. “And that means we examine the laws, the context for what happened, as well as the specifics of the incident.

            “But my main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin: If I had a son he’d look like Trayvon. And I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are gonna take this with the seriousness it deserves and that we’re going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened.”

            In summary:

            -took care due to ongoing investigation
            -expressed empathy and sympathy
            -talked about every parent’s concerns and that everybody should pull together
            -discussed the fact that a complete investigation was needed
            -again expressed empathy

            Wow – yes that’s super-political and controversial.

            Regarding Pres. Obama’s mother’s death, he discussed her struggles with insurance companies, said she had “…pretty much drained all of her resources…” paying her bills. He talked about how she was denied insurance coverage, in this case disability insurance, due to her pre-existing condition of undiagnosed cancer.

            “I will never forget my own mother, as she fought cancer in her final months, having to worry about whether her insurance would refuse to pay for her treatment. And by the way, this was because the insurance company was arguing that somehow she should have known that she had cancer, when she took her new job, even though it hadn’t been diagnosed yet,”

            While I agree that this is somewhat misleading, since it does not distinguish between Ms. Dunham’s medical insurance and her disability insurance, it is not a lie.

            But I do agree with you – it’s not good to use someone’s death for any political purposes, especially a family member’s death.

          • Gregg Smith

            Obama used the Martin case to help paint the narrative that: a) The South is inherently racist, b) Racist are murderous stalkers and C) Black youths are not safe. It was disgusting. There was nothing noble about it. It was divisive. How often does Obama insert himself in the numerous incidents of black kids being killed by other blacks or whites? And many of the latter are for purely racist reasons. Tons of example available upon request.

            Obama’s mother was covered. He was not by her side during the last days as he said.

            We’re getting into the weeds. Romney’s are not in the same universe.It is not credible to criticize him and give Obama a pass.

          • hennorama

            Thanks for your response.

            Wow. Pres. Obama’s comments did all that, huh? Please point out how, specifically, Pres. Obama’s remarks said any of THAT. Please point out how it was divisive, when Pres. Obama said “…it is absolutely imperative to investigate every aspect of this and that everybody pulls together… all of us have to do some soul searching…all of us as Americans are gonna take this with the seriousness it deserves and that we’re going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened.”

            Do you interpret the words “every,” “everybody” and “all” as meaning something other than every, everybody and ALL?

            Not only were Pres. Obama’s words not divisive, they were chosen carefully to not disrupt the ongoing investigation.

            Is that what Mr. Romney did? Did Mr. Romney insert politics into the deaths of Americans, that occurred overseas, contrary to the accepted custom that “politics end at the water’s edge?” Did Mr. Romney even wait until families were notified or at least until we knew the status and whereabouts of all American personnel in Benghazi? Did Mr. Romney respect the accepted political custom that political attacks are off limits on 9/11?

            Did Mr. Romney even talk to the families of the dead Americans before using them in his speeches?

            I didn’t give Pres. Obama a pass. I said “… it’s not good to use someone’s death for any political purposes, especially a family member’s death.”

            Sheesh. Get down off the ledge.

          • Gregg Smith

            He inserted himself in the one case out of hundreds that fit a narrative he wanted to perpetuate. His ratings went up BTW. Did Obama talk to Martins mother before he spoke? You see it your way, I see it mine. I think it was hideous, it certainly divided us further. He exploited the death for politics which should bother you.

      • William

        What was Clinton’s military record? Does it matter since few if any political leaders have served in the military.

        • hennorama

          It matters when one has no military record, yet uses the deaths of brave American veterans for political gain.

          It matters when one has no military record yet is sabre rattling for political gain.

          Yes, it matters.

          Hypocrisy matters. Use of the death of a Navy SEAL, Glen Doherty, without consulting his family, for political gain, matters.

          Using the attack in Benghazi for political gain, releasing a statement critical of the administration before anyone knew the fate of or whereabouts of all American personnel, before the families of those killed and wounded were even notified, matters.

          Yes, it matters. Ask Glen Doherty’s mother how much it matters. Ask the families of the others killed and wounded how much it matters.

          Yes, it matters.

          • William

             It does not matter. Obama did not serve and he went to war against Libya. Clinton did not serve and he was dropping bombs too.
            The administration has been lying about the terrorist attack from the start so Romney was correct to speak up.
            Romney was just talking about meeting Mr. Doherty at a party. Nothing dishonest about that.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            Your Chickenhawk Bumper Sticker doesn’t impress anyone in 2012.

    • hennorama

      Apologies to the board for the drawn out comments below due to DISQUS’s format.  I keep forgetting that when one replies directly using the “Dashboard” feature on disqus.com, the comments continue to trail down in this forum.

      With that in mind, this is my FINAL post on this topic, in reply to Gregg:

      On March 23, 2012, Pres. Obama was in the Rose Garden, announcing his nomination of Dartmouth College President Dr. Jim Yong Kim to head the World Bank.  After the announcement, the President was asked a question about the Travon Martin case, and he responded in a measured, thoughtful, cautious and vitually neutral manner.

      Here’s the clip of the Word Bank nomination announcement and the Travon Martin question from the press, with Pres. Obama’s response.  It seems pretty clear that he spoke extemporaneously, when one sees his pauses and “ums” etc.

      The Travon Martin question is asked at 4:18 into this clip: http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2012/03/23/president-obama-nominates-dartmouth-college-president-lead-world-bank

      The President answered a reporter’s question.  The President did not call a press conference or release a statement on this topic.  Keep in mind that this case was nearly a month old by this time, and the Justice Dept. had announced the launch of an investigation 4 days earlier.  There had been protests all over the country, so it had become a national issue.

      This is in stark contrast to Mr. Romney recklessly spouting off about Benghazi only hours after the attack, when the facts were not known, and the fact of Amb. Steven’s death was not known.

      Pres. Obama did not “… insert[ed] himself in the one case out of hundreds that fit a narrative he wanted to perpetuate.”  Please demonstrate the basis for this assertion, if you can.

      Here’s a timeline of the case: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/trayvon-martin-case-timeline-events-224404994–abc-news.html

      It seems from his remarks that the President did not talk to Travon Martin’s family prior to this, but I don’t know the facts, so I won’t make any definitive claims.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    New report out today that Martha Radatz attended a social event at Biden’s private residence this past March.  Would a judge have to recuse themselves if they were social with someone on trial?  Of course. 

    No wonder she interrupted Ryan 32 times and Biden — not so much.

    btw – why were there no questions on Obamacare or Obama’s second term agenda (or lack thereof)?

    We also know that she invited Obama to her wedding. And Obama appointed her ex-husband to the head of the FCC.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      Because when I want to get in good with someone, I do a favor for their ex-spouse.

      Go back to Fox Nation or wherever it is that politeness is a suitable substitute for moderate informed opinion.

      • WorriedfortheCountry

         Election committee just announce that Pat Buchanan will moderate the next debate to level the playing field.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

          Way to internalize that patented right-wing victimhood. White males are truly the last oppressed class.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Herman Cain will moderate the next debate.

            Or even Condie Rice.

            Is that better?

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            Uh, the whiny oppressed white male I’m referring to is the one you see inthe mirror.

            And it’s pretty obvious that any moderator you approve of is a hack.

    • Michiganjf

      Poor Poor “worried…”

        Nothing ever goes your way.

      • Michiganjf

        … and everyone’s against you.

        • Gregg Smith

          I’ve never seen Worried ignore a link, trash the source (which actually wasn’t the source) as invalid and then in the very next comment use the very same source to make his point that shows the site he trashed going against their perceived bias to report a story. My head hurts.

          Have you got anymore Glenn Beck Links?

      • WorriedfortheCountry

         Woe is me.  LOL

    • sickofthechit

       Obama was invited by the ex-husband. Expand your universe.

    • anamaria23

      The social event had to do with women’s History Month,
      a reception put on by the Biden’s and attended by large number.  I suspect you already know this.

    • J__o__h__n

      Justices like Scalia who went hunting with Cheney or Thomas who has a wife that works for a right wing organization?

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

    Am I remembering properly that Ryan tried to elicit warmfuzzyhumanness for Romney with a story of benefaction, after someone else’s car crash tragedy?

    During a debate. In front of Joe Biden.

    Who lost his first wife in a car crash? Who, exactly, is “prepping” him with this stuff?

    (Flip this: For how many miles could we hear the howls if a Democrat said “People feel imprisoned and poked with bamboo shards” in front of John McCain?)

    What kind of ignoramus or sociopath does Ryan need to be to do that?

    • StilllHere

      Are you sure about that story?  Biden’s got a history of making up his history; in fact, stealing someone else’s.  There’s an ignorant sociopath for you!

      • anamaria23

        Joe Biden’s wife and daughter were killed in a car accident when he was age 29.

      • hennorama

        Please go back to whatever rock you creeped out from.

        • StilllHere

          Great, now all the Obama apologists are here!  

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        That you, who post here every day on politics, claim to know that fact about Biden, speaks volumes about your media bubble or the depths you’ll sink to.

        Tone deaf, tin ear, nothing’s off limit when it comes to a Democrat. You’re a piece of shite.

        Cmon, say something good about that racist armed wingnut who shot up the Obama campaign office in Colorado. Don’t be so polite about it on our account.

        Because it’s a little too late for the likes of you to worry about good taste now.

    • William

      I have yet to hear a similar story about Obama. 

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        Wow, dipshite.

        I can’t make it any plainer for you: Joe Biden lost his wife in a car crash some 30 years ago. Paul Ryan blew right past that to tell an anecdote about someone who was maimed in a car crash, right in front of him.

        I can’t dumb it down any more for you. Remember Basil Fawlty entertaining the Germans he wanted to impress, in Fawlty Towers? “Whatever you do, don’t mention the war!”

        Paul Ryan makes Basil Fawlty look like David Niven.

  • Gregg Smith

    We were warned about the attack:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/10/08/exclusive-libya-cable-detailed-threats.html

    We knew within hours it was a terrorist attack:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/02/usa-libya-intelligence-idUSL1E8L1PZR20121002

    The President of Libya said the movie had nothing to do with the attack:

    http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/26/14105135-libyan-president-to-nbc-anti-islam-film-had-nothing-to-do-with-us-consulate-attack?lite

    “The State Department now says it never believed the Sept. 11 attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Libya, was a film protest gone awry…”

    http://www.sj-r.com/breaking/x684456860/Attack-in-Libya-no-protest-State-Department-says

    There was no protest:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/10/libya-attack-protest-state-department_n_1953263.html

    I want to know why they lied to America. They made up the story about the protest, if not who told them? What intelligence was there of a protest? Why shoot before aiming with the claim it was a spontaneous result of organic protest about a stupid video if the information was so wrong?

    • TinaWrites

      The President and VP have to keep National Security secrets.  What secrets?  Perhaps something New; and/or  something Behind what actually did happen.  The Republican challengers do not have to keep any such secrets.  Holding secrets can be very bad, or it can save the country or something else valuable to our country or citizens.  There is NOT an even playing field when it comes to some of these questions in a debate format.  But that is how it has to be.  Even when a President – any President – tells the country “how it is”, there is a huge chance that tons of Other Information is behind that statement. 

      • Gregg Smith

        Fair enough but they lied. IMO the “secret” they are trying to keep is the terrorist are not decimated and they are intent on killing us. Lara Logan has a great perspective and is throwing the flag.

        http://www.christianpost.com/news/lara-logan-accuses-government-of-propagating-major-lie-about-terrorism-83064/#V7UMvciIZVs820BA.99

        So, you make a valid point but that’s not what’s happening here.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

          Please count how many terrorist attack since Obama took office?

          President Bush embedded the FEAR OF ISLAM IN OUR MINDS FOR 10 YEARS. And everything he said against the muslim people created fear amongst us.

          Terror Alert was a false ideology that the Republicans and Media forced them to us.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

          Please count how many terrorist attack since Obama took office?

          President Bush embedded the FEAR OF ISLAM IN OUR MINDS FOR 10 YEARS. And everything he said against the muslim people created fear amongst us.

          Terror Alert was a false ideology that the Republicans and Media forced them to us.

          • Gregg Smith

            Not all have been successful, some were stopped by pure luck or someone else. The underwear bomber and the times square attempts come to mind. The Ft. Hood massacre was certainly a devastating terrorist attack.

          • William

             Well…there is a lot to be afraid of from Islam.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            Especially when a dim bulb like Shrub ignored warnings. Good thing Cheney, Rumstud, Rice et al were on top of “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in United States”.

            Oh, wait…

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    RCP update.

    Obama has a lock on only 9 states. *edited to 9 states +DC

    • Ray in VT

      Things are certainly not going the President’s way, but RCP has 10 solid for Obama (142 electoral votes) and 13 for Romney (76 electoral votes).  5 states have moved back to toss up in the past week, but the locked in votes are heavily in Obama’s favor.

      • Gregg Smith

        California’s gap narrowed 8 points which is telling although Obama is still up by 14.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          I think that poll had Obama at 53%.  The key metric for any incumbent is 50% line because most undecided break for the challenger.

          • Gregg Smith

            I would be stunned beyond belief if Romney won CA but it is interesting.

      • WorriedfortheCountry

        We’ll see.

        The U of Colo model upped their prediction (based on economic data in each state) to Romney taking 330 electoral votes. +10 from August.

        This was pre-debate –they don’t factor external events like debates.

        This really smells like 1980 to me. 

        The debate audience was the largest since 1980. This tells me that many voters are WILLING to fire Obama. Based on his record, I can see why.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

    http://www.kolotv.com/news/headlines/Voter-Register-Caught-On-Video-I-Dont-Get-Credit-For-Democrats-173618921.html

    “Non partisan” voting registration in Nevada: “I still (register people who mark as) Democrats if I have to, but I’m working for the
    Republican Party. I have to get two an hour and I don’t get credit for
    Democrats.”Let’s see what Nevada Sec State Ross Miller does about this. I’m sure action will be forthcoming, as Miller had a real stiffy about taking down ACORN.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

    My 9 year old daughter will be competing against Paul Ryan for class vice presidency.

    • StilllHere

      you’ve hit the schnapps a little early today mein fuhrer

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

        No i drunk to0 much “water” last night.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

    Please Here we again 2 dead people a border patrol agent and an Ambassador.

    Did we ever blame the Republicans for killing almost 5,000 US soldiers in Iraq.

    If you seen Documentary films about the war. Every US Soldiers are asking “Why am I here” and “What am I fighting for”

  • TomK_in_Boston

    The corporate media are falling all over themselves to rescue Ryan’s performance. He gets destroyed by Biden and the headline in the Globe is “Ryan shows electorate he’s no pushover”. Geez, it’s not easy to find the truth when the corporate media moguls blow this smoke every day. No wonder so many voters are fooled into voting against their own interests.

    • Brandstad

      Exacltly how did Ryan get destroyed by Biden?  I watched it but must have missed something since I thought the debate was quite even.  Biden didn’t have many plans for the future, but did well to defend the past and Ryan Gave some details on his plans without looking angry or hatefull.

      • TomK_in_Boston

        It’s funny to hear the righties attack the ACA in perfect lockstep, and then attack the President for “having no plan”. Hello, you can’t have both. Controlling health care costs without pure class warfare like vouchercare is a huge challenge, and the ACA is a very significant plan for the future.

        Combine the ACA with tax increases at the top, infrastructure spending, cuts to the weapons budget and getting the hell out of “the graveyard of empires” and you have the beginning of the most important planning we need to do. OTOH, the only plan coming from RR is “we plan to wage class warfare”.

        • William

           Obama has no budget so he has no plan.

          • TomK_in_Boston

            ….this script will repeat. He has no plan….this script will repeat..

          • William

             Facts are hard to hide from…

          • StilllHere

            He knows even Democrats won’t vote for it so why put up a budget.  Hillary would’ve had a budget.  Next time, let’s get somebody who’s accomplished something in their lives.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

    The greatest thing that Biden said last night that his son served in Iraq for a year.

    Did Romney’s sons ever serve for US Armed Forces? Nope

    They were too busy making their religion great and making money in the expense of the middle class.

    • TomK_in_Boston

      As Cheney said re his 4-5 deferments, “I had other priorities.”

      • William

         What was Clinton’s excuse?

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

          Wow, that’s so cute, trying to equivocate someone who didn’t support the war with every Chickenhawk Republican who supported Vietnam without, yknow, having to fight in it.

          Chump, here in the real world, Chickenhawk Republicans are not sucked up to as ManlyMen who’ll protect us simply by having now escaped every opportunity to fight in it when they were of service age.

          Deferments. Religous carve-outs. “Other priorities”. Daddy getting them into Air National Guards. But none of that makes them less manly.

          I’d love to see your son die in one of their places. Maybe that’s what’d take–actually affecting William–to get through your thick skull.

          Romney longed to be in Vietnam, he says. Hey, I longed to be an astronaut. But he didn’t, and I didn’t. The difference is that nobody’s giving me credit for supporting the space program.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

    I hope after the election. I wish all of us will be helping each other to make America a great nation again.

    God Speed!!!

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Sounds good.

    • Steve__T

       I’ve been praying for that for 40yrs.

  • osullivan11

    I was in london this week and it was interesting to listen to what David Cameron, PM and leader of the Tories said during their convention.

    To paraphrase: 

    ” Things were alot worse than we thought when we came into office” ” The recovery will take longer than we thought given the magnitude of the disaster which the previous government left us”

    ” We care for 100% of people and are not concerned with the cheap political tactics of class warfare of the (labor party) opposition”

    Interesting the dichotomy with the conservative party in the US. Just food for thought I think.

  • Brandstad

    Libya Timeline and Describes ‘Massive Cover-Up…Bigger Than Watergate’

    A chronology of crucial moments leading up to and in the aftermath of the attacks is provided below courtesy of the Heritage Foundation:

    April 6: IED thrown over the fence of the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi.
    April 11: Gun battle erupts between armed groups two-and-a-half miles from the U.S. Consulate, including rocket-propelled grenades.
    April 27: Two South African contractors are kidnapped by armed men, released unharmed.
    May 1: Deputy Commander of U.S. Embassy Tripoli’s Local Guard Force is carjacked, beaten, and detained by armed youth.
    May 1: British Embassy in Tripoli is attacked by a violent mob and set on fire. Other NATO embassies attacked as well.
    May 3: The State Department declines a request from personnel concerned about security at the U.S. Embassy in Libya for a DC-3 plane to take them around the country.
    May 22: Two rocket-propelled grenades are fired at the Benghazi office of the International Committee of the Red Cross, less than 1 mile from the U.S. Consulate.
    June 6: A large IED destroys part of the security perimeter of the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi. Creates hole “big enough for 40 men to go through.”
    June 10: A car carrying the British ambassador is attacked in Tripoli. Two bodyguards injured.Late June: The building of the International Red Cross attacked again and closed down, leaving the U.S. flag as the only international one still flying in Benghazi, an obvious target.
    August 6: Armed assailants carjack a vehicle with diplomatic plates operated by U.S. personnel.September 8: A local security officer in Benghazi warns American officials about deteriorating security.
    September 11: Protesters attack the U.S. Cairo embassy. U.S. Embassy releases statement and tweets sympathizing with Muslim protesters/attackers.
    September 11: U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya is attacked, Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans are killed.
    September 12: Secretary Clinton and President Obama issue statements condemning both the video and the attacks.
    September 12: U.S. intelligence agencies have enough evidence to conclude a terrorist attack was involved.
    September 13: Press Secretary Jay Carney condemns video and violence at a news conference.
    September 14: Carney denies Administration had “actionable intelligence indicating that an attack on the U.S. mission in Benghazi was planned or imminent.”
    September 14: The bodies of slain Americans return to Andrews Air Force Base. President Obama again blames the YouTube video.
    September 16: U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice appears on Sunday talk shows and says the attacks were provoked by the video, exclusively.
    September 16: Libyan President Mohamed Magarief says, “no doubt that this [attack] was preplanned, predetermined.”
    September 17: State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland refuses to call attacks an act of terror.
    September 19: CNN reports having found Ambassador Stevens’s diary, which indicates concern about security threats in Benghazi.
    September 19: Director of the National Counterterrorism Center Matthew Olsen tells Congress the attack in Libya was “terrorism.”
    September 20: Carney tries to back up Olsen, says it was “self-evident that what happened in Benghazi was a terrorist attack.”
    September 20: Obama refuses to call attack terrorism, citing insufficient information.
    September 21: Secretary of State Clinton, at meeting with Pakistani Foreign Minister, says, “What happened in Benghazi was a terrorist attack.”
    September 25: On ABC’s “The View,” Obama says, “we don’t have all of the information yet so we are still gathering.”
    September 25: To the U.N. assembly, Obama blames “A crude and disgusting video sparked outrage throughout the Muslim world.”
    September 26: Libya’s Magarief on the “Today” show says, “It was a preplanned act of terrorism directed against American citizens.”
    September 26: Published reports show U.S. Intel agencies and the Obama Administration knew within 24 hours that al-Qaeda affiliated terrorist were involved.
    September 27: Innocence of Muslims filmmaker Mark Basseley Youseff (aka Nakoula Basseley Nakoula) is arrested and denied bail on the charges of “probation violation.”
    September 28: Director of National Intelligence James R. Clapper, Jr., issues a statement backingthe Obama Administration’s changing story about the Libyan attack. Says facts are evolving.
    October 2: Carney declines to comment on reported requests from diplomats in Libya for additional security, citing the State Department’s internal investigation.

    • hypocracy1

      Cover-up Bigger than watergate!  This guy! LOL

      • Gregg Smith

        Nobody died in Watergate.

        • hypocracy1

          It’s a cover up bigger than Fast & Furious!

          Bigger than 9/11!

          • Gregg Smith

            Don’t get me started on “Fast and Furious”. A lot of people died. There was blatant disregard for the law, the Mexican Government and life. It’s awful.

            And as far as 9/11 goes “truthers” (who outnumber “birthers”) are insane.

          • Steve__T

             So is the war on drugs that caused it all.

          • Gregg Smith

            No.

          • Steve__T

             If you don’t think that Fast N’ Furious is related to the war on Drugs you are dimmer than I though or you are on Drugs.

          • Gregg Smith

            Who said it wasn’t related to the war on drugs smarty pants? It was caused by the Justice Department’s reckless disregard for life and the law. It was caused by neglecting to even attempt to track the guns. It was caused by not informing the Mexican Government. 

          • Steve__T

            You did. I am going by your answer of NO when I stated it , what are you now etch a-sketch jr.
             Go back down and look at your answer, as for smarty pants maybe you should put yours on.

          • Steve__T

             Remember this; ”
            Don’t
            get me started on “Fast and Furious”. A lot of people died. There was
            blatant disregard for the law, the Mexican Government and life. It’s
            awful.

            And as far as 9/11 goes “truthers” (who outnumber “birthers”) are insane.

          • Steve__T

             You do remember this,
            Don’t
            get me started on “Fast and Furious”. A lot of people died. There was
            blatant disregard for the law, the Mexican Government and life. It’s
            awful.

            And as far as 9/11 goes “truthers” (who outnumber “birthers”) are insane.

          • Steve__T

             So is the war on drugs that caused it all.

          • Gregg Smith

            Note you said “caused” and then switched to “related”. They are different words with different meanings. The war on drugs is stupid.

        • JGC

          Wasn’t G. Gordon Liddy ready and willing to take somebody out if the Boss gave the nod? I think I remember something like that.  You know, he was always a good company man…

          • Gregg Smith

            I don’t know. I used to get Liddy on the radio here but no more. I liked his show.

  • bfryer

    I hate to say this….I am very concerned about one of the factors in the Romney vs. Obama debate beyond the latter’s dead-man-walking performance last time. Romney ‘looks’ like a made-for TV white man president, while Obama still ‘looks’ to many people, particularly closet and not-so-closet racists, like an uppity black man who has to prove himself. This means Obama will have to work twice-as-twice as hard to ‘prove’ his American male manliness, just as Hillary did against the male who is now her boss.  

    • Gregg Smith

      Does he look more like an “uppity black man” now than he did in 2008 when he won by a landslide? Maybe just maybe he’s an awful awful President… even his white half.

      • Steve__T

         That’s Sick

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

          Funny how now Gregg says “Obama won in a landslide in 2008. Someone must have poured that into right wing puke funnel Greggg eats from.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/NAQ3DAWTSNDWDUON7H2ZEBWLFA Robert

    Ryan got stomped….. And please no more folly rhetoric that the media is  liberally biased. For the last 10 years the media is conservative cheer-leading and during President Obama’s first term they talked about his birth certificate and tried to put all the bull Bush/Cheney left…  on him. But it doesn’t work. Ryan looked deer in the “head lightish” when Biden fired back with FACTS!. The President inherited  a broken economic system that caused a crisis. He dealt with the crisis so we wouldn’t go into a depression. Now the results are 7.8%unemployment down from as MUCH AS 11-15% by some economic experts, more private sector jobs than Bush created,Universal healthcare, stock market up 5000 pts, ending the dumb Iraq war,mortgage relief,education loan gouging relief, corporations and financial institutions reporting record profits and $2 trillion cash on hand. While the these Repub guys say 47% of people are waiting for handouts (lie),dont pay taxes (lie) and insult us by Only provide two years of tax returns while everyone else running providing 8-10 years worth. Its amazing

    • Gregg Smith

      Thanks for the belly laugh!

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Biden was neither clean or articulate.

    • William

       Rep. Ryan looked more the mature adult of the two and was well prepared to debate issues. Biden acted like a used car salesman. The stock market is up because there is no place for investors to put their money with nearly zero interest rates. It is becoming just another bubble waiting to burst. The 47 percent number is sound. You can break it apart based on retired people, military overseas, poor, welfare people etc..but it is a fact.

      • http://twitter.com/ihrtelectronica iheartelectronica

        Ryan sounded like a wind-up toy – gonna get the same song and dance every time. Even his personal anecdotes sounded completely scripted. And their “five-point plan” – what plan? There’s nothing in there of substance. Not a single detail delivered but man is the Romney / Ryan ticket all bout promisin’ whatever to whomever will listen.

        • William

           Didn’t you find Biden’s behavior distracting?

      • hypocracy1

        So it’s a fact that 47% of the country will vote for Obama because they owe their very existance to the government and Romeny wants to be President and  admits these people aren’t his concern… I like your logic.

      • hennorama

        What a load of nonsense.

        You asserted “The stock market is up because there is no place for investors to put their money with nearly zero interest rates. It is becoming just another bubble waiting to burst.”

        Have you ever heard of corporate profits, and how they relate to stock prices?

        If not, here are some facts, using the S&P as a proxy for “the stock market”:

        S&P 500 Great Recession Low: closing low 676.53 on March 9, 2009

        S&P 500 Current (10/12/2012) close 1,428.59 up 111.2% from the low

        US Corporate Profits After-tax (source: http://ycharts.com/indicators/corporate_profits )
        (This is not just the S&P 500, but you get the idea).

        Great Recession Low: Dec. 31, 2008 $643.70 Billion
        Most Recent: June 30, 2012 $1.665 Trillion up 158.7% from the low.

        Here’s an article from July 24, 2012, discussing this topic, with some nice charts:
        http://seekingalpha.com/article/742811-s-p-500-valuation-and-outlook

        As far as this being a bubble, you’re wrong again:

        S&P 500 P/E ratio (price divided by earnings):

        Great Recession extreme: June 30, 2009 PE  122.41 Most Recent data:           March 31, 2012 PE    15.91
        (Source: http://ycharts.com/indicators/sp_500_pe_ratio )

        I’d look for more recent data, but it’s Friday night.

        As far as “the 47%” (actually 46% but regardless – they too are paying every dollar that they owe in tax, and not a dollar more, just like Mr. Romney.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Did anyone notice that Biden changed Obama’s tax policy to only raise taxes on those making more the $1M, instead of $250K?

    I was surprised that none of the post-game talking heads picked up on this.  I guess they were too focused on “The Joker”.

    • StilllHere

      I just assumed that was another thing he was lying about.

    • hennorama

      Vice President Biden did not “change Obama’s tax policy to only raise taxes on those making more the (sic) $1M, instead of $250K.”

      VP Biden made several comments about the taxes of those with high income:

      “BIDEN: The middle class will pay less and people making $1 million or more will begin to contribute slightly more….Of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, $800 million — billion of that goes to people making a minimum of $1 million….120,000 families by continuing that tax cut will get an additional $500 billion in tax relief in the next 10 years and their income is an average of $8 million….The last people who need help are 120,000 families for another — another $500 billion tax cut over the next 10 years.”

      “BIDEN: Number two, 97 percent of the small businesses in America pay less — make less than $250,000.”

      “BIDEN: Just let the taxes expire like they’re supposed to on those millionaires. We don’t — we can’t afford $800 billion going to people making a minimum of $1 million.”

      ‘BIDEN: Ninety-seven percent of the small businesses make less than $250,000 a year, would not be affected.’

      Yes, VP Biden referenced those with $1 million or more in income, saying they should pay more, and he also referenced people making less than $250,000, saying they wouldn’t be affected.

      Where is the so-called policy change?

  • ML Reese

    What about the smirk on Paul Ryan’s face? None of the talking heads has mentionned it.  And your guest today said that Ryan’s answer about abortion was “heartfelt.”  Who are you kidding? He went on a rant.

    • StilllHere

      You’re the only one who saw it.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1601914388 Elli Mussolino Canterbury

        No, StilllHere, there was a smirk there on Ryan’s face…the entire night. He’s about as sincere as Jimmy Swaggert’s apology for getting caught with a hooker.

  • William

     Poverty here is not like poverty in many countries around the world.

    • http://twitter.com/ihrtelectronica iheartelectronica

      Meaning what?

      • TomK_in_Boston

        Translating Righty-newspeak into English can be difficult. He’s saying that the peasants in the USA should smile and thank Lord Romney et al because their lives are still better then those of Hatians.

      • William

         This was a response to a lower post. This disqus program does not always work too well.

  • http://twitter.com/ihrtelectronica iheartelectronica

    Lot of the media seems to be calling this a tie – I find that hard to believe after watching Ryan squirm his way out of providing any sort of details on his platform the whole night. The administration can point to real things they’ve done – Ryan can’t even point to plans and his own voting record is against him. All I hear from his is – “it’s not working, but trust us we’ll fix the country … no, we won’t tell you how but it will be great … we promise.” Comeon! What are you gonna freakin’ do!!

    • Gregg Smith

      The polls I’ve seen have Ryan the winner. I think ABC, CNN and NBC all showed that with CBS showing Biden won. I could be wrong. It doesn’t mean much. I thought Dr. Krauthammer summed it up well. He said if you read the transcript it was a tie. If you listened on the radio Biden won. If you watched it on TV Ryan won.

      BTW, “It’s not working” is a good argument.

      • http://twitter.com/ihrtelectronica iheartelectronica

        “It’s not working” is only a good argument if you have an alternative and that’s my point … they don’t have any alternative – just a bunch of pretty catchphrases with no meat on the bones.

        • hypocracy1

          Romney doesn’t give any details because he hasn’t been programmed with them yet.

        • Gregg Smith

          They have an alternative. Repeal Obamacare, lower tax rates, eliminate deductions and loopholes, don’t raise taxes on the middle class, don’t lower what the rich pay, save medicare, etc.

          All I’ve heard from Obama is raise the top rate and build a bridge… or something.

          • ACIMSB

            You are 4 years behind and very confused. You can’t even distinguish between Sarah Palin and Obama. 

          • Gregg Smith

            I love Sarah Palin. Obama is no Sarah Palin.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkaKwJ9eOUU

          • TomK_in_Boston

            Then you haven’t been listening. How about implement the ACA, raise taxes at the top (tho not by nearly enough!), cut the weapons budget, get us out of Afghanistan, invest in infrastructure, education, R&D, etc. Sounds good to me.

            Meanwhile all I hear from RR is the same old tax cuts and deregulation, that worked so great during the bush debacle culminating in the 2007 crash, and the same old class warfare like voucherizing medicare and privatizing SS. Yuck. Who knows, maybe they’ll even throw in a war with Iran, too.

            If you really believe vouchercare is saving medicare, you probably thought the vietnam-era “We had to destroy the village in order to save it” made a lot of sense.

          • Gregg Smith

            I think what you describe would be disaster. And you do realize Obama forced 2 million of the most vulnerable  Medicare recipients into a voucher program, don’t you? RR would never do that.

          • TomK_in_Boston

            I know what you think, but you can’t say the President’s plan would be a disaster and also say he has no plan. The ACA was a massive effort, including bipartisan incorporation of righty policies and consultation with health care corporations – way too much IMO.

            Ryan vouchercare is pure class warfare. We have this great medicare program and the RR approach to controlling costs, in short, is “We’ll give you a voucher for whatever amount we want and you pay the rest”. Some “save”.

            It’s so great to know that the far right “has a plan”. I mean, if someone told me he was planning to stick bamboo splinters under my fingernails, that would be a plan, too.

          • Gregg Smith

            Ryan’s voucher is voluntary. Obama’s already done it against the will of the elderly. Please square that with your criticism.

            http://nationaljournal.com/healthcare/obama-more-flexible-on-medicare-than-rhetoric-suggests-20120908?page=1

    • William

       What are Obama’s plans? Other than raising taxes, higher spending, what is the plan? Could he at least promise to get a budget passed?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1601914388 Elli Mussolino Canterbury

        Maybe the President could get a budget passed if the Republicans were willing to do their part instead of making Mr. Obama a one-term President their most important priority.

        • William

           Even the Democrats voted against Obama’s last attempt at a budget. His own party is not doing their part?

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            Hey, how are things in Williamworld?

            Your idea of “Obama’s budget” as submitted by a Republican doesn’t pass the “laugh myself ill” test.f

            Anyone else can look it up. Any source William would have isn’t worth spit.

          • William

             When faced with defeat you should just surrender and admit you have lost.

          • Steve__T

             You should take your own advice

  • gslouch

    I am so tired of hearing Republicans call president Obama’s healthcare bill a “government takeover “of healthcare and Ryan, of course, repeated it last night.  The president’s bill will cover another 33 million Americans and, perhaps most dramatically, will not allow insurance companies to deny those with preexisting disease.  This in itself is mindblowing.  Were any republicans listening to the Democratic convention when the family with the little girl with extensive cardiac issues was presented.   That is what America is about!   What would this family do without this healthcare coverage.  Romney claims to cover preexisting conditions, but if you read up on his policy plans it really doesnt provide for these situations.     And by the way,great job last night Vice President Biden!!

    • Gregg Smith

      If you like it and think it’s a sustainable improvement, fine. It still remains a government takeover of health care.

    • TomK_in_Boston

      Me too. It’s a joke. Under the ACA the private insurance corporations still provide the insurance, the private hospital corporations still provide the care, the docs still work for the hospital corps, and the private drug corporations still provide the drugs. You have to be incredibly stupid to call that a “government takeover”.

      • Gregg Smith

        16,500 additional IRS agents will enforce the government takeover.

  • ACIMSB

    There are several bloopers in yesterday’s debate.
    1. Ryan addressed President as simply Barack Obama , first time when he named him in his answers. This shows his arrogance and disdain for the President.
    2. Ryan stressed that Iran is on verge of acquiring nuclear weapons. Same strategy that President George Bush used – WMD to invade Iraq. After losing several thousand American and Iraqi lives, and running a huge bill on American Treasury, we are yet to find the elusive WMD in Iraq.
    3. Ryan’s Christian faith for pro-life does not extend to my faith of owning my body. Republicans have made an issue of contraceptives for women. What about condoms sold without prescription, over the counter , and covered under health insurance? Is any one tracking that? No one questions that. We women are not men’s property. Most certainly not politician’s or religion’s.
    4. Raising taxes on rich will cripple job growth. After 12 years of tax rebates, how come these rich people not created jobs for us yet? Why is the economy still struggling?
    5. Ryan accuses Democrats of reducing American military, thus reducing jobs. We know that American military is getting more sophisticated by the day. It relies more on robots and computers to fight. It is the new future, and it is here.

    Americans please wake up and question Republicans strategy not because you Republican but because you are American and you have a questioning mind. Don’t take their hand outs. Question why Corporations are supporting Republicans? Because they get free ticket to pillage our nation and at the end we are left holding the debt bags. Remember Enron, Wall Street crash.

    I question Democratic candidates and don’t vote for them just because they are democrats.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       “4. Raising taxes on rich will cripple job growth. After 12 years of tax
      rebates, how come these rich people not created jobs for us yet? Why is
      the economy still struggling?”

      This one is easy.  President Obama’s plan is increase the top tax rate to 39.6%.  The CBO claims this will COST the economy 700,000 jobs yet is will pay for less than one day of government spending.  Hardly a good tradeoff in a weak economy.

      We do need comprehensive tax reform for several reasons.  Our tax code is bloated and inefficient.  The tax  code is over 74,000 pages.  It needs to be shredded.

      Our tax system is not competitive with the rest of the world.  This is costing us economic growth and jobs.

      Over regulation is also killing economic growth and jobs.  In fact it is driving jobs overseas.  There was a recent study that measured the cost of recent regulations and they are costing the economy an estimated $1.8T in size.

      The problem is these bad tax and regulatory policies are magnified in a weak economy.  In good times (like in the ’90s) you don’t notice but now, in our weak economy, they make a huge difference.

      The only way out of this mess is to grow the economy and allow more people to find work in good paying private sector jobs.

      • Gregg Smith

        Not to mention, no money is exchanged when people keep a little more of what is theirs. It can hardly be called a “rebate”.

    • Gregg Smith

      Do you have a problem with Biden saying he opposed the wars when he voted for them? I mean, it’s a flat out lie isn’t it? And since you mentioned WMD, here’s what Biden said in 2002:
       
      “By the way, they talk about this great recession like it fell out of the sky–like, ‘Oh my goodness, where did it come from?’” Biden said. “It came from this man voting to put two wars on a credit card, at the same time, put a prescription drug plan on the credit card, a trillion dollar tax cut for the very wealthy.”
      “I was there, I voted against them,” Biden continued. “I said, no, we can’t afford that.” 
      That was Joe Biden last night. He voted for both wars so he lied. Does anyone care?
      “What we have here, I argue, as the rationale for going after Saddam, is that he signed a cease-fire agreement. The condition for his continuing in power was the elimination of his weapons of mass destruction, and the permission to have inspectors in to make sure he had eliminated them. He expelled those inspectors.”
       Joe Biden 10/10/02 (video available on request) 
      And here he is to Tim Russert years later:

      MR. RUSSERT: Where are they?
      SEN. BIDEN: Well, the point is, it turned out they didn’t, but everyone in the world thought he had them.
      The weapons inspectors said he had them. He catalogued—they catalogued them. This was not some, some Cheney, you know, pipe dream. This was, in fact, catalogued. They looked at them and catalogued. What he did with them, who knows? The real mystery is, if he, if he didn’t have any of them left, why didn’t he say so? Well, a lot of people say if he had said that, he would’ve, you know, emboldened Iran and so on and so forth.

      Republicans have no “issue” with contraception. The issue was forcing others to pay for it. A rubber cost 75 cents. When Catholics who morally oppse it are forced to pay for it their religious freedoms are unconstitutionally infringed upon. That’s the issue. It was hideous of Democrats to tell women Republicans want to take away their contraception. Just hideous.

      • ACIMSB

        My point is Ryan’s/Republican’s reliance on ‘fear strategy ‘ that was deployed using WMD to invade Iraq.

        Contraceptives are contraceptives. But of course trust men/religion/corporations use cost as the reason to deny women access to contraceptives but men would be allowed. And I have read in detail that ‘ birth control to female employees does not apply to
        churches, houses of worship, or other institutions directly involved in
        propagating a religious faith. It does apply to church-affiliated
        institutions such as hospitals and charities that serve the general
        public’.

        • Gregg Smith

          I’ll take that as a, “No, I don’t have a problem with Biden lying”. 

          No one was denied contraception. No one proposed anyone be denied contraception.

    • TomK_in_Boston

      It’s voodoo. Cutting taxes is a good idea if taxes are high and it’s a horrible idea when tax rates are at or near record lows.

      But let’s be clear – the real agenda is redistributing more $ to the top, so tax cuts are always good.

      • Gregg Smith

        How is letting people keep a little more of what they’ve earned redistributing wealth to the top? No money is exchanged. I’ve asked 1000 times and no one answers.

        • Gregg Smith

          God, I wish someone would answer this question.

        • J__o__h__n

          The people at the top would are not keeping only a little more.  The Bush tax cuts disproportunately reward the rich. 

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    It was interesting that Mr. Biden claimed no worries about Iran getting a nuke because our intelligence community will know with pinpoint precision when they will get a bomb.  Of course this is complete bunk.

    However, Biden claims the same intelligence community bungled the Libya crisis so badly that they confused a terrorist attack with a fifteen minute internet trailer for at least a week.

    The incongruenty of these two arguments within the same debate was stunning.

    We know now that the Biden claim on Libya contradicts testimony given by state department official to congress — under oath.

    • Gregg Smith

      Evidently Biden has never heard of a suitcase.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Biden was the Ted Knight  Judge character in Caddyshack last night in the debate.

    Just heard that analogy on the radio and it is perfect.  A pompous ass.

  • Michiganjf

    Easy.

    Elect President Obama to a second term, and Repugnicans can STOP focusing their every minute on making him “a one term President.”

    Then, as the effort to thwart Obama will be moot, Republicans can actually start to help getting things done for Americans by cooperating with the President and Dems!

    • Gregg Smith

      Do you pine for the days when Democrats tried so hard to help Bush? Harry Reid saying “this war is lost” was awesome support. When Dick Durbin compared him to Pol Pot on the Senate floor, ditto. The examples are legion, it must have been nice for GW. And didn’t you get sick of Bush constantly complaining, bitchin’ and moanin’ about the “previous administration”? It seemed like all he did was gripe about the Democrat Congress. Presidential, right?

  • IndependentThinker1981

    Romney & Ryan are such fakes… they will say whatever pleases their audience… after all Romney is a business man and it’s about the bottom line which in this case is to get the votes! Here is what Romney will do – he will look at the country from a business point of view. He will look at it as an investment portfolio… Cut down everything that is not making money or isn’t profitable. This includes medicare, social security, other government plans/aids for the underprivileged, foreign aid and so on. He will put money into everything that is already making money such as large corporations and businesses including oil companies! Give tax cuts to high income earners! Who cares about the 47%. It’s downright “business”. It is also a popular theme in that party! The truth is that the GOP hates government programs and loves supporting the wealthy! 
    Ryan pointing out two towns where unemployment is higher than before is pointless considering what the statistics indicate just the opposite. It was a lie as the unemployment rate in his home town has in fact gone down since 2009. The unemployment rate nationwide has dropped in the last four years. The economy IS recovering. Stock prices ARE up… Home sales ARE high. There ARE more jobs for the educated and skilled workers. Personally, my salary has gone up well over 30% in past four years. States like Massachusetts are doing really well because of highly educated and skilled workforce. There are a lot of technology, medical, research jobs out here. This is why President Obama wants to spend money on education so people can have equal opportunity. He wants less educated people to gain job related skills so they can be competitive in today’s market. He wants everyone to have a clear shot regardless of his/her socioeconomic status. Why would Romney want to cut down on federal aid such as Pell Grants? Clearly, to him, its pure business. Why bother!?! Let’s not worry about the 47%! 

    Why should Catholic teaching have anything to do with women making choices about their health and personal lives? Not everyone shares your belief Mr. Ryan and no one cares what you call your kid – bean or peas or potatoes… Also, sometimes it is better to not have a baby than bring one into this world just to abandon it. What is the sense in that!?! Women should have the CHOICE! 

    I will also strongly support gay marriage and equal rights for same sex couples.  

    When asked about specifics of the tax plan, the Republicans have no answer… I don’t understand why middle class has to pay 33% in taxes when Romney only pays 14%! Biden is right – majority of the small businesses make less than 0.25M. Republicans must keep the rich happy because that is how they get their endorsements. Romney raised most of his money from a handful of lobbyists that fall in the 1% they are trying to please. This is unlike President Obama who has a lot of supporters outside the 1%. 

    I do not think we need to engage in any more wars. I do believe that a troop withdrawal is an absolute must. I also can guarantee that Romney will not fair well when it comes to foreign policies. He will not build relationships with other nations. In fact, I don’t really know what he will do. He has proved himself to be pretty incompetent in that area! 

    The whole closing statement by Ryan yesterday was soooo FAKE! I couldn’t stand it. It just didn’t sound genuine… 

    So – those people making comments of Biden’s laughter and Ryan’s looks were missing the subject – my guess is that they aren’t the smartest Americans!!! They aren’t ‘Independent Thinkers’! Yes, Biden’s laughter was overkill but hey – he was right on most counts! 

    OBAMA for 2012!!! 

  • IndependentThinker1981

    Romney & Ryan are such fakes… they will say whatever pleases their audience… after all Romney is a business man and it’s about the bottom line which in this case is to get the votes! Here is what Romney will do – he will look at the country from a business point of view. He will look at it as an investment portfolio… Cut down everything that is not making money or isn’t profitable. This includes medicare, social security, other government plans/aids for the underprivileged, foreign aid and so on. He will put money into everything that is already making money such as large corporations and businesses including oil companies! Give tax cuts to high income earners! Who cares about the 47%. It’s downright “business”. It is also a popular theme in that party! The truth is that the GOP hates government programs and loves supporting the wealthy! 
    Ryan pointing out two towns where unemployment is higher than before is pointless considering what the statistics indicate just the opposite. It was a lie as the unemployment rate in his home town has in fact gone down since 2009. The unemployment rate nationwide has dropped in the last four years. The economy IS recovering. Stock prices ARE up… Home sales ARE high. There ARE more jobs for the educated and skilled workers. Personally, my salary has gone up well over 30% in past four years. States like Massachusetts are doing really well because of highly educated and skilled workforce. There are a lot of technology, medical, research jobs out here. This is why President Obama wants to spend money on education so people can have equal opportunity. He wants less educated people to gain job related skills so they can be competitive in today’s market. He wants everyone to have a clear shot regardless of his/her socioeconomic status. Why would Romney want to cut down on federal aid such as Pell Grants? Clearly, to him, its pure business. Why bother!?! Let’s not worry about the 47%! 

    Why should Catholic teaching have anything to do with women making choices about their health and personal lives? Not everyone shares your belief Mr. Ryan and no one cares what you call your kid – bean or peas or potatoes… Also, sometimes it is better to not have a baby than bring one into this world just to abandon it. What is the sense in that!?! Women should have the CHOICE! 

    I will also strongly support gay marriage and equal rights for same sex couples.  

    When asked about specifics of the tax plan, the Republicans have no answer… I don’t understand why middle class has to pay 33% in taxes when Romney only pays 14%! Biden is right – majority of the small businesses make less than 0.25M. Republicans must keep the rich happy because that is how they get their endorsements. Romney raised most of his money from a handful of lobbyists that fall in the 1% they are trying to please. This is unlike President Obama who has a lot of supporters outside the 1%. 

    I do not think we need to engage in any more wars. I do believe that a troop withdrawal is an absolute must. I also can guarantee that Romney will not fair well when it comes to foreign policies. He will not build relationships with other nations. In fact, I don’t really know what he will do. He has proved himself to be pretty incompetent in that area! 

    The whole closing statement by Ryan yesterday was soooo FAKE! I couldn’t stand it. It just didn’t sound genuine… 

    So – those people making comments of Biden’s laughter and Ryan’s looks were missing the subject – my guess is that they aren’t the smartest Americans!!! They aren’t ‘Independent Thinkers’! Yes, Biden’s laughter was overkill but hey – he was right on most counts! 

    OBAMA for 2012!!! 

  • Gregg Smith

    I’m not a big Hannity fan but he made an interesting point today that I’ve been trying to dismiss but can’t. Biden is unstable. His laughter was uncontrollable. And then his mood changed completely. He got very subdued. It was a manic display out of his control. The guy ain’t right.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Perhaps.  But I disagree.  This was an intentional tactic to talk over Ryan to prevent the facts from getting out — bully tactics.

      If you look at his debate performance with Sarah Palin – he didn’t interrupt or make faces, sneer, giggle, guffaw , etc.

      • Gregg Smith

        I tend to agree with you but it’s nagging me. It really did seem out of his control. Maybe it was a result of the aneurism… or maybe he’s just a first class jerk.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        Oh noes, a Democrat isn’t going all Alan “Coma” Colmes on a Republican!

        Fire up the waaaahmbulance!

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           Interesting that you mention Colmes.  The Hannity-Colmes show was riddled with the same tactic — they would just talk over each other nonstop– not that either had much to say.

          The show was unwatchable.

  • Gregg Smith

    So within a day Biden and Carney both said the White House had no idea security was asked for in Libya. They put it on the State Department. Are they throwing Hilary under the bus? Will Bill take kindly to that? Panic time.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Where is Hillary?  Could be.  She could be getting out of Dodge ASAP.

  • TomK_in_Boston

    “Sen. Scott Brown (R-MA) plans to give away $10,000 in campaign funds he received from the owners and executives of a compounding pharmacy linked to the national meningitis outbreak that has sickened 185 people and killed 14.”

    It will be so nice to get rid of this phony. His nice guy image is history after basing a whole campaign on cheap shot attacks.

    • Gregg Smith

      “Phoney”? That’s rich. Did he claim to be a native American too?

      • TomK_in_Boston

        Good to see you’re focused on significant issues.

        • Gregg Smith

          I consider integrity a significant issue but I can’t vote in MA.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Brown is a regular guy.  He reminds me of several guys I grew up with.

      Warren has some major phony issues that we should ‘hammer’ her on:

      - Represented Travelers Insurance against the little guy
      - Represented coal companies against the little guy
      - Represented Dow Corning against women victims
      - Used the fake Indian claims to advance her career
      - Traded in her BMW for a Ford right before she ran
      - Lives in a $2M mansion in Cambridge
      - Did law work without a MA license
      - Did no pro-bono work as a Harvard prof. — unlike many of her Harvard colleagues like Alan Dershowitz

      Yeah, she is for the middle class ONLY when it advances her career.

      The amazing thing is many of the trite policies she promotes actually hurts the middle class but she appears so devoid of basic economic knowledge she doesn’t realize it.

      For instance, her energy policies would raise the cost of energy and therefore be a regressive burden on the middle class and would also cost jobs.
       

      • TomK_in_Boston

        C’mon, you can think for yourself. There’s no point to just copy/paste talking points into On Point.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           No copy and paste.  All from memory.

          Sorry Tom.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           Also,there is a Cornell law prof. who is all over her case.  I’ve heard him interviewed on the radio twice and that is source for much of the info I posted above.

          Both the Globe and Herald have been on top of this.

          The question for the Dems is why didn’t they vet Warren?  They had another qualified primary candidate but they blocked her in the Dem convention.

        • StilllHere

          Pot meet kettle.

  • TinaWrites

    Has anyone been watching the PBS/(maybe BBC) show called something like, Meet the Midwives.  If you could make your way to the end of the first episode, you are truly a brave seeker of Truth as expressed thru Fiction (where it is often far more forthrightly and honestly expressed, as you know!).  (Note:  the second episode was more traditionally the stuff of tragedy and beauty and even humor; so if the first episode scared you off, please know that the second episode is not so graphic; yet it still has deep sadness knit right into it).  Anyway, I’m not writing this to write TV reviews, but to suggest that this series does tell us a lot about what could have happened to American women if Rick Santorum, who, apparently, does not believe in birth control, had been the Republican candidate for President.  Even tho Paul Ryan is saying that he is more moderate than this, this series does show some of the situations that could make American women descend from one tragic and/or hard decision to another tragic situation.  I’d have to have a better memory for all aspects of a TV series to be clearer, but I am curious to know if others saw contemporary possibilities in this series, which is set in 1957:  a few years, I believe, before the birth control pill came to be dispensed to American women for the first time.  Even if birth control is not the next option on the chopping block for U.S. women and their families, even if the discussion remains at the level of abortion rights, there are consequences of not having those rights that can either be seen directly in this series, or imagined by anyone able to hook into the brilliant precision of the series’ social vision of life — for both men and women — young and sexy, or otherwise.  

    • Gregg Smith

      I just don’t understand the fear. Roe v Wade is going nowhere. There is no war on contraception. Santorum is on record legislatively supporting it’s funding. Joe Biden doesn’t believe in abortion or contraception, so what?

      • JGC

        When you potentially have somebody at the top of the federal government -meaning a Vice President Ryan- who believes there is absolutely no abortion  exception to be made to women who have suffered rape, incest or life-threatening illness- there is plenty to be fearful about.  

        • Gregg Smith

          Joe Biden said he accepts his church’s (Catholic) position on abortion.

          Before abortion is made illegal for cases of rape and incest it would need to be made illegal for all. And even that won’t happen. It can’t happen. Roe v Wade is going nowhere.

          • J__o__h__n

            Roe v. Wade is one Republican Supreme Court nomination away from being overturned.  The Roberts Court has shown no respect for precedent.  Other than Romney depending on what day it is, the Republican party is determined to make it illegal.  Look at the record number of anti abortion bills introduced by the Teabaggers.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

          What does Ryan say about abortion? When did he last change his mind?

          • JGC

            My understanding is that Congressman -Mr.?- Ryan’s personal position is “no exception”.  His political position is to defer to the head of the ticket  Romney’s position which is very limited exceptions to be made in these areas (health of the mother, rape, incest).  In practicality, whatever they believe, they would nominate only “severely” social conservative activist Supreme Court nominees.  And from there it is “game over” to Roe v. Wade. 

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            Ah, but that’s what he said yesterday. I’m sure he has another story for us today.

            Of course, I live in a state where science dictates this kind of law, so I’m only poking fun at the idea of Ryan’s “dependability” on this because his mendacity won’t kill someone in my family with a dead fetus in their vajayjay, six months along, unconscious and driven by ambulance to a Catholic hospital at 3 am.

            And there’s always the privilege carveout: Whatever Romney or Ryan say, if their kid finds themselves in a pregnancy scare, there’s always a semester abroad in Norway.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        I don’t want to change your mind.

        I’ll just sit here and accept the support of everyone who, for some reason, doesn’t buy Rick Santorum’s word on this subject. Or those who don’t take your word on Santorum’s word.

        • Gregg Smith

          I’m pro-choice.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            So what?

            You’re the kind of “pro choice” I wouldn’t trust to defend my right to buy OTC condoms from a “Christian teller” in a “pharmacy that doesn’t discriminate against Christians”.

            It doesn’t matter what you think. You’re the walking, talking epitome of “unreliable narrator”.

          • Gregg Smith

            Alrighty then.

  • JONBOSTON

    Joe Biden’s offensive and disgraceful behavior was disrespectful not only to Paul Ryan but to the American people. This country is facing some very serious challenges. We have severe problems that includes structural unemployment , growing dependency, increased poverty, an America borrowing 40% of what it spends from China, failing schools,  fewer percentage of Americans working , an increasingly chaotic world with diminishing American influence, and I could go on. Instead the American public had to endure for 90 minutes a loudmouth ,interrupting , snarling blowhard with few if any accomplishments to show for his 45 years on the public dole. Biden’s act may have energized the left wing MSNBC ideologues but hopefully it did nothing for everyone else. His arrogance and condescension  was a complete turn-off. Better if he could articulate a program and vision for the next 4 years other than taxing “millionaires and billionaires” ,free contraceptives and green “energy jobs”. Biden and Obama may talk endlessly about the middle class pain , but they offer nothing as to how they would end it.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      Sorry, too busy laughing at the crocodile tears from the right wing puke funnel (and therefore Politico, therefore The Evening News’ Beltway Inbreds) to care what happens when right-wingers cry about a Democrat’s “tone”.

      When your side worry about a Democrat’s demeanor, I know a Democrat is winning.

      • WorriedfortheCountry

        To quote Algore:

        “SIGH”

      • JONBOSTON

        When you’ve stopped laughing , can you please tell me what Obama’s plan is for growing the economy and improving the lot of the middle class?

        • Gregg Smith

          He/she must still be laughing.

  • JGC

    Here is another Main Stream Media controversy for you:  as per the ground rules for the VP debate, Paul Ryan requested Martha Raddatz refer to him as “Mr. Ryan”during the debate, rather than as “Congressman Ryan”.  Did Ryan really think we would all be fooled into forgetting he is a front-and-center part of this most historically low-rated Congress?  And if Raddatz did agree to this designation in the honorific, it didn’t take her very long to forget and fall back into the more normally fluent “Congressman Ryan”.  Passive-aggressive left wing media sabotage? Innocent frontal lobe malfunction?  MSM conspiracy?  Only Sean Hannity knows the truth…  

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Oh no.

      Did Biden really think we’d forget that he voted to authorize the wars in both Afghanistan and Iraq?

      • JGC

        Biden, like most of the people in the U.S., initially based their support for Iraq II on Dark Overlord Cheney’s misinformation campaign on weapons of mass destruction being hidden by Saddam Hussein.  Yes, business was very good for Halliburton back in those good ole days.  

        • Gregg Smith

          Sorry JGC, not true. Here’s Biden in 1998:

          “An asymmetric capability of nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons gives an otherwise weak country the power to intimidate and blackmail. We risk sending a dangerous signal to other would-be proliferators if we do not respond decisively to Iraq’s transgressions. Conversely, a firm response would enhance deterrence and go a long way toward protecting our citizens from the pernicious threat of proliferation. . . . Fateful decisions will be made in the days and weeks ahead. At issue is nothing less than the fundamental question of whether or not we can keep the most lethal weapons known to mankind out of the hands of an unreconstructed tyrant and aggressor who is in the same league as the most brutal dictators of this century” [Congressional Record, 2/12/98].

          • Gregg Smith

            BTW, I think this is the third time I’ve posted Biden WMD quotes on this board. If I’m not mistaken, I have not repeated any. He was very outspoken as was nearly everyone. 

            Why do you suppose he lied about his vote in the debate?

          • StilllHere

            Why do Democrats lie?  This is an eternal question.

          • Gregg Smith

            They lie because ideology trumps truth to a liberal. 

  • Steve__T

    Disqus

    • Gregg Smith

      Drupal.

  • Dee

    US Military is sent to Jordan on Syria Crisis…..http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/10/world/middleeast/us-military-sent-to-jordan-on-syria-crisis.html?_r=0 Tom, I am very upset and indeed outtraged by how the war -mongers in the US back /Zionist entity in Washington/Israel have exploited the Syrian peoples’ peaceful and non violent call for democratic reforms from their leaders into a war on them and a regime change.Now they have caused so much suffering and war crimes against this defenseless and peaceful population and have thrown their lives and country into utter chaos. I can’t ,believe this escalation of the conflict is being endorsedby people in our government. It is adding insult to injury)  And this is beyond criminal is my book and I will no doubt be joining other peace activists and anti -war groups in the streets protesting this shocking abuse of US power and US tax monies to destabilize another Arab country.it is time to call for a Declaration of Independence from Israel.(Israeli leaders and their US apologists have been such a corrupting force in our country. ….See URL..)  I imagine , people like Henry Cabot Lodge ar turning over in their grave. Please see his letter to President Woodrow Wilson below… His point is so well made…DeeHands off Syria, Chris Marsden, WSW http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/jul2012/pers-j20.shtmlSyria, The Next Humanitarian War , Global Research    http://www.globalresearch.ca/syria-nato-s-next-humanitarian-war/A Declaration of Independence from Israel< Chris Hedges http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20070702_a_declaration_of_independence_from_israel/Henry Cabot's Lodgess letter to President Woodrow Wilson http://www.firstworldwar.com/source/lodge_leagueofnations.htmNote the Zionist apologists warning "next" to the Syrian leadership,http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/john-mearsheimer/the-isra

    • JONBOSTON

      Sad state of affairs in this world when you and others like you can’t distinguish between good and evil.  For all your distorted and warped view of Israel, it remains the most open, democratic and decent country in the middle east.  It’s no accident that more Israelis have won the Nobel prize in such areas as chemistry, literature, and peace than probably all Arab states combined. Not to mention the numerous accomplishments made by Israelis in medicine , mathematics, pharmaceuticals, computers and software, etc. 

  • Dee
  • Dee

    We all have to reject this corruption of our government
    forces on behalf of Israel with US tax payers revenue

    War on the Syrian People, Chris Marsden
    http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/may2012/pers-m31.shtml

    US Coordinates with Turkey In Proxy Syria War
    http://www.countercurrents.org/marsden160812.htm

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Uh oh!!

    Romney now leading Obama in ME poll 48% to 44%.

    ME splits the electoral vote by congressional district so this result is in just one district.
     

  • Dee

    Re:  Jon Boston My outraged is not with the Israeli people but with the land thieves and war mongers who run its government-and havedone so for the last 60 yrs…preferring escalation and war over doing what’s rights and lawful and honest….Still, to suggest Israel is a beacon of democracy and the only one in the Middle East indicates to me how brainwashed you are with its propaganda. A country that has unlawfully ex-ceed its borders since the 1967 war to promote its clan is a country in violation of international law and the sovereign and human rights of the Palestinian people esp in territories (see the URL http://archive.org/details/Salman_Abu_Sitta  )In addition, a democracy for Jews only is no democracy at all in my book but a Jim Crow system of racism & religious inequality. This alone should shame all Jews given their own narrative history. Yet like so many people in the US and around the world today…I am beyond accepting Israel’s horrendous violat-ions in international law and Human Rights and Israeli officials side stepping their efforts to be lawful and just.Thus I say suspend the state from the UN or shut it down as a member state and as a beacon of human injustice in the Middle East–we can no longer accept…….DeeThe ongoing violent occupation , http://imeu.net/news/article005970.shtmlThe Great Middle East Peace Scam, Henry Siegmanhttp://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n16/henry-siegman/the-great-middle-east-peace-process-scam

    • JONBOSTON

      Arab Israelis have more rights in Israel than Arabs in all other middle eastern countries . Jews in Arab countries have no rights. How do you explain that?

    • JONBOSTON

      Advertisement in the NY subway.

      “In any war between civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man. Support Israel. Defeat jihad.”

  • Dee
  • Dee

    RE: JonBoston 

    Some upside down concept of democracy you have swollowed

    The ongoing violent occupation http://imeu.net/news/article005970.shtml

  • Dee

    And the war crimes of Israel go on daily while its officials
    have access to our government officials and claim “rights”
    But really what rights do land thieves have instead of being
    kicked out themselves? This is so long overdue…Dee
    http://uprootedpalestinian.wordpress.com/category/arab-48/page/35/Tell me again, who made the desert bloom ?http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/2010/03/palestinians-made-the-desert-bloom.htmlNote the inventory of produce by the British and the photographic history of the Palestinian of people at the end of this column….

    • JONBOSTON

      Advertisement in the NY subway.

      “In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man. Support Israel. Defeat jihad.”

  • Dee

    addendum: Oops the URLs 

    The Uprooting of Palestinians …..

    http://uprootedpalestinian.wordpress.com/category/arab-48/page/35/

    Tell me again, who made the desert bloom ? 

    http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/2010/03/palestinians-made-the-desert-bloom.html

    • JONBOSTON

      Advertisement in the the NY subway system.

      “In any war between civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man. Support Israel. Defeat jihad.”.

  • TomK_in_Boston

    Short version:

    With the income and wealth of the 1% at post-1929 highs and tax rates at the top at or near post-1929 lows, the RR “plan” is to scream about the deficit and propose more tax cuts at the top!

    How stupid are you, America?

    • JONBOSTON

      Please explain…..What is Obama’s plan for growing the economy and helping the middle class?

      • DrewInGeorgia

        Please explain…..What is the Romney plan for growing the economy and helping the middle class? Turning the bulls loose, Drill Baby Drill, and playing Duck, Duck, Goose is NOT a plan. The Five Point Plan is a Joke.

    • Gregg Smith

      No one is proposing tax cuts. The Romney plan is not a tax cut for the rich.

      • JONBOSTON

        Left wing ideologues can’t understand the idea that lowering marginal tax rates and eliminating deductions and exemptions typically used by high earners exposes more adjusted gross income to tax, ergo you pay more federal income tax. 

        • DrewInGeorgia

          Which deductions and exemptions will be eliminated? A vague outline of approved talking points is NOT a plan. Where’s the detailed list of loopholes to be closed?

          • Gregg Smith

            Likely President Romney will have majorities but to reform the entire tax code bi-partisan support is crucial to the Country. I doubt he would pull a reconciliation Obamacare stunt on an issue of that magnitude. So they’ll hash it out. Simpson/Bowels did. Romney laid out the parameters: no hike on the middle class and no cut on the top. BTW, regarding medicare the rich will pay more and the poor less. 

            The author of the study that showed the plan to be a $5T tax hike is pissed that Obama is lying about it. The math can work.

            http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/princeton-economist-math-behind-romneys-tax-plan-adds_653618.html

          • JONBOSTON

            I liked Romney’s idea of capping the total $ amount of itemized deductions so the taxpayer is free to choose which deductions they wanted to deduct. It also ends the irrelevant questions of identifying which deductions and exemptions. 

      • DrewInGeorgia

        Horsecrap

        • Gregg Smith

          I know a little something about horsecrap. My comment exposes it.

      • TomK_in_Boston

        Hahahaha. The plan is a real, huge tax cut,  supposedly compensated by unspecified loophole closings, and you believe it? Give me a break. If, gawd help us, Lord R is actually elected, he will make the tax cuts, pocket plenty for himself, and then “discover” that oops, everyone who said there really weren’t enough loopholes to close were right. Sorry about that.

        Besides, so what if his plan could magically work? With the 1% paying the lowest or second-lowest rates since 1929 and the right supposedly all in a tizzy about the deficit, why would anyone propose to keep the amount they pay the same? Obviously, it must increase.

        Total income of the USA is $13-14 trillion and the 1% have around 20% of it – peak was 23% in 2007. A modest increase of 10% in the rate would bring in close to $300 billion/yr, a nice start on the deficit.

        • Gregg Smith

          The top 1% are paying a higher percentage of the overall bill after the tax cuts. 

        • agavegirl

          Business is booming, in estate planning for rich.  My company is seeing record business.  The rich are getting richer and that will only escalate under Romney.

          • Gregg Smith

            Thank Governor Walker for your booming business not Obama.

    • DrewInGeorgia

      Pretty stupid evidently.

    • agavegirl

      Pretty stupid.  And watching the debate w/Mittens and Obama just made me ill, I lost count of the number of Mittens’ lies 20 minutes into the debate.  The middle class has been suffering for years now.  In fact, my federal tax burden went down under Obama.  My neighborhood is filled with Romney/Ryan signs (Ryan is my congressional rep) and now we might have to endure Tommy Thompson as a US Senator representing Wisconsin.  It’s an absolute nightmare.

  • Don_B1

    You have NO, repeat NO, believable basis for a statement of that kind, except I suppose you can find some ignoramus on the Internet to link to.

  • Don_B1

    There are indications that low-level State Department types had reports of a militia attack but what the C.I.A. may have known is so far unknown.

    Why the information about both the requests for security and the attack did not rise up the chain as quickly as it should is currently under investigation.

    But the Bush administration was correctly condemned for “stove-piping” raw information without proper vetting. But why it took so long when known will probably be deplorable.

    But Ryan’s call for Marine security shows his lack of understanding (probably a source of why that $300 million or more over two years was cut from the State Department foreign location security request) as Marine detachments are to protect encryption electronics and data, not personnel. It would have taken the insertion of a large body of troops to protect personnel, which would have been a much bigger deal that a detail of Marines.

    Gregg needs to qualify who he means and what the source at the hearing implied when he says “they knew.”

    • Gregg Smith

      They sent a marine contingent to Barbados for security for Pete’s sake! In the last 5 years the State Department’s budget has increased 118%, it’s a matter of priorities. On Sept.1 the Libyan interior minister issued the highest alert for the upcoming anniversary and Chris Stevens sent the memo to Washington. And we were told the BS about a movie. It’s hideous incompetence or willful disregard. We shouldn’t even have an ambassador in Libya much less a sitting duck with no protection. How does this happen? Scroll down a page and a half and you can see a comment I made with 4 or 5 links that should suffice. If you are still this much in the dark then I suggest better news sources.

    • Gregg Smith

      So did you edit away the post I replied to because you finally realized the truth? 

      • Don_B1

        My post was not appearing, at least on my computer, under your post that I was responding to. It was appearing at the end of the set of threads as a new thread, unrelated to what I was responding to.

        Why should I not suppose that was the case for everyone?

        I do intend to find the original post of yours and resubmit the post, as I have been able to submit two more posts (found as I searched for the posts to re-respond to), but it does take time and I have not had that much today.

        But you demonstrate you willingness to leap to (false) conclusions, you demean yourself and your case for all your comments.

        Hopefully this will appear in the right place.

        Note: your post did not appear attached to anything, so “going to the link” did not help me in my search.

        • Gregg Smith

          All my post are right where I put them. Why would you have to look for them? They’re right here. The links are still there. The only thing different I see is your comments (that I replied to) have been edited so your claims about possible low level State official maybe knowing something are now gone and replaced by your disqus gripe. Twice. I didn’t leap to any conclusions, that was you. You were the one who jumped to conclusion the State Department had no idea it was a terrorist attack and thought it was a protest to a silly video. You were the one who thought I made up the AP story saying the State department admitted they never thought it was the movie. You were the one who jumped to the conclusion I was lying. You are the woefully uninformed one who is just now catching on to the lie.

  • Gregg Smith

    James Clapper the Director of National Intelligence is being set up as the fall guy. Either he knew and didn’t tell or we have a scandal that dwarfs anything in recent history. I suspect the latter or he would certainly be fired by now. Maybe it’s coming.

    I can’t remember what it is about Clapper but I remember something about a hearing when he testified he did not know something. His boss stepped in and overrode his answer. I’m sure the Fox monster crowd around here missed it because they aren’t curious enough to seek truth. But maybe one of my conservative friends can remember the incident. I can’t quite get there but I remember it was alarming and Clapper looked like a fool.

  • Don_B1

    Secretary Powell resigned at the end of George W. Bush’s first term when there was the normal turnover. That is not to say that he was only then aware of how he had been used a year and a half to two years earlier.

    • DrewInGeorgia

      My condolences.

  • Steve__T

    Disqus

  • hennorama

    How is Mr. Romney’s economic plan, which is essentially the basis of his entire campaign, supposed to work?

    He says his tax cutting plan will be combined with sufficent slashing of deductions, exemptions and credits so that it will be revenue-neutral.  In other words, it will add NO fiscal stimulus to the economy.

    Mr. Romney says he will cut individual and corporate tax rates, cut deductions, exemptions and credits, eliminate the estate tax, eliminate the Alternative Minimum Tax, and otherwise reform the tax code.  He says he will cut regulations; drill, baby, drill; sign more trade agreements; improve job training, skills matching, and schools.

    Oh, and don’t forget his plan to anger China:  He has an entire section of his economic plan titled: “CONFRONTING CHINA.”

    This is supposed to somehow create 12 million new jobs, and GDP growth of 4% per year.  But if his tax cuts are revenue-neutral, what is the incentive to employers or consumers?  He says his plan won’t change the revenue coming in, so it doesn’t put any money into taxpayers’ hands.  Where is the demand to support these 12 million jobs and 4% GDP growth supposed to come from?

    Mr. Romney says he “Immediately cuts non-security discretionary spending by 5 percent.”  He says he will limit Federal spending to 20% of GDP, and that this “Requires spending cuts of approximately $500 billion per year in 2016 assuming robust economic recovery with 4% annual growth, and reversal of irresponsible Obama-era defense cuts”

    These figures are all from Mr. Romney’s website.

    Spending cuts of $500 billion per year.  Here’s an analysis of Mr. Romney’s proposed budget, and how it might affect various programs:

    http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3658

    Here’s a quote from this analysis:

    “For the most part, Governor Romney has not outlined cuts in specific programs.  But if policy­makers repealed health reform (the Affordable Care Act, or ACA) and exempted Social Security from cuts, as Romney has suggested, and cut Medicare, Medicaid, and all other entitlement and discretionary programs by the same percentage to meet Romney’s overall spending cap and defense spending target, then they would have to cut non-defense programs other than Social Security by 22 percent in 2016 and 34 percent in 2022.”

    Spending cuts do not stimulate the economy; they do the exact opposite.

    Mr. Romney also wants defense spending to be at least 4% of GDP.  If GDP grows at the 4% pace he predicts, a level of 4 percent of GDP for defense in 2016 would cost about $400 billion more than Pres. Obama currently plans.  That’s just for one year.

    Further, he says he will be “capping non-security discretionary spending below 2008 levels.”

    Essentially, he’s proposing austerity for the United States AND a military expansion – No revenue increases coupled with massive spending cuts to non-security programs, coupled with increased defense spending.

    Here’s what the latest IMF World Economic Outlook says about austerity:

    “Activity over the past few years has disappointed more in economies with more aggressive fiscal consolidation plans.”  In other words, countries with austerity programs are doing even worse than expected.

    Mr. Romney says this will all magically result in 12 million jobs, and 4% GDP growth.

    Tax code changes that result in no new revenue.Massive increase in defense spending.Big spending cuts that will most impact those who have the least.

    Is this what you want, America?  Do you think it will work?

    • Gregg Smith

      Forgive me but you are a bit long-winded for a comprehensive response. IMO you are using false premises. Please correct me. You seem to be saying we can tax our way out and are looking for extra revenue through those taxes. That will not and cannot work. when you write, “In other words, it will add NO fiscal stimulus to the economy”, that’s not a logical conclusion. The idea is to grow the economy and make more taxpayers. It is not to milk more revenue out of existing taxpayers. Another false premise is that anyone is proposing anything near what could be described as austerity. We do not need trillion dollar deficit after trillion dollar deficit to avoid austerity.

      • hennorama

        I realize my post was long, but we are talking about the economy, after all. Since Mr. Ryan doesn’t have the time to explain it, I thought I’d at least lay out the framework of Mr. Romney’s proposals.

        Fiscal stimulus is defined as increased public spending or a reduction in taxation. Mr. Romney says his plans do NEITHER, therefore, they have no fiscal stimulus, by definition.

        It’s not my logical conclusion, it’s simply and exactly what Mr. Romney says:

        No net reduction in taxation. No revenue increases. Massive spending cuts. Massive defense spending increases. All simultaneously.

        His own website says his plan “Requires spending cuts of approximately $500 billion per year …”

        This is austerity, by definition:

        “In economics, austerity refers to a policy of deficit-cutting by lowering spending via a reduction in the amount of benefits and public services provided”

        source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austerity

        If it’s not austerity, what is it?

        You assert “The idea is to grow the economy and make more taxpayers.” How does this happen, exactly? If, as Mr. Romney’s says, his plan is revenue-neutral, it adds no money to the economy. How does this “grow the economy and make more taxpayers?” If the plan cuts Federal spending, it REMOVES money from the economy. How does this “grow the economy and make more taxpayers?”

        Is it magic? Can you explain it? Can Anyone?

        • Gregg Smith

          We have a basic disagreement about Keynesian economics. Fiscal stimulus is not defined as increased spending or tax reduction. For spending to increase that money has to come from somewhere, the government has no money. Taking money out of the private sector only to put it back in other areas by way of the public sector is merely dipping water out of the deep end of the pool and pouring it in the shallow end… with a leaky bucket (AKA government waste). The only other options are printing or borrowing, either of which is fraught with their own perils. I do not believe you can create demand by passing around other peoples money. I do not believe demand comes first, I’m a supply sider.

          Revenue neutral refers to the existing pie. The revenue comes from a rising GDP and a growing pie. The rising GDP comes from people in the private sector putting money at risk in hopes of a return. It’s a gamble and onerous regulation makes for bad odds. So does a lack of confidence that the payoff won’t be confiscated through taxation or further regulatory compliance… or lawsuits. 

          • hennorama

            If you are unable to define “fiscal stimulus” for yourself, here are definitions from The Financial Times, and Cambridge Dictionaries:

            “fiscal stimulus

            Government measures, normally involving increased public spending and lower taxation, aimed at giving a positive jolt to economic activity”

            source: http://lexicon.ft.com/Term?term=fiscal-stimulus

            “fiscal stimulus

            › ECONOMICS, GOVERNMENT an attempt by a government to increase economic activity by reducing taxes, increasing government spending, or both”

            source: http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/business-english/fiscal-stimulus

            Supply siders believe that supply creates demand. They also believe that lower taxes and reduced regulations will create more supply of goods and services, and that greater supply leads to lower prices.

            There’s a huge supply of coal in the US right now. Is there some resulting increased demand for it? What about natural gas, aluminum, lumber, etc.?

            What about the supply of money in corporate coffers? It’s thought to be at least $1.7 TRILLION and perhaps as high as $5 TRILLION of liquid assets.

            Source: http://blogs.reuters.com/david-cay-johnston/2012/07/16/idle-corporate-cash-piles-up/

            Why are they sitting on this cash? This is a pretty big supply, so where’s the resulting demand? Why aren’t they already producing more and increasing the supply of goods and services, and the resultant jobs, if this would work so well?

            Could it be that business people are instead not seeing any demand for their products and services, so they are not investing in more equipment and jobs? Do they see unmet demand, and therefore unrealized profits? Are they just sitting on their hands, foregoing those profits, until they can get lower tax rates?

            Have you built more stalls, creating more supply, then have demand pick up? Or did you see increased demand for stalls, then build more?

          • Gregg Smith

            The dot com bubble was fiscal stimulus. The housing bubble was fiscal stimulus. Lower taxes can be fiscal stimulus. They all are a result of more taxpayers in a growing economy. That is why your definition says “normally” or “an attempt”.

            You made my point with the coal comment. The demand is certainly there with the high energy cost but the government is inserting themselves and mucking it up.

            http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09/19/romney-pro-business-groups-blame-obama-polices-on-recent-mine-closings/

            And regarding natural gas, there is a HUGE boon in the Dakotas. Unemployment is around 3% and they are considering abolishing property taxes because there is so much revenue. It’s all happening on private land in the private sector. If Obama doesn’t kill it, and the cost remains so low someone can make a mint by supplying natural gas powered cars.

            The money in the private sector is not the government’s  but they (and evidently you) want it. The best way is to give the private sector confidence the risk of investment will be worth their while. Obama demonizes achievement 24/7. Money isn’t supplied, I don’t get that one. How much demand was there for iPads 10 years ago? Or cars 150 years ago? It’s not so much that the demand doesn’t exist it’s that there is no supply for it. The private sector with their own money on the line is much much much (yes 3 much’s) better equipped to identify the demand and supply it through risk and innovation than the government is with other people’s money and no risk. Look at the Chevy Volt. 

            Thank you for the question about stalls. We risked $55K (1986) and built a barn with 34 stalls. Many stayed empty for a while. Now they are full and there is still only 34. Three years ago we built an indoor riding arena. Two colleges approached us to teach classes in it. Physical Therapist involved in Hippotherapy approached us and now work with handicapped kids twice a week. The girl scouts want us to do summer camps. Ditto 4H. None of that would have happen if we could not supply an indoor arena. The risk we took by expanding when the economy was tanking has paid off.

          • Gregg Smith

            One last thing, you’ll love this. I already have a bridge. The NCDOT gave it to me when I read about it in the paper in 2005. It’s a long story but I persisted and was the last man standing. It was delivered in Sept. of 2010. I plan to erect it next year. Here it is.

            http://www.gribblenation.com/nclost/bridges/228.html

          • hennorama

            Please explain your assertion that “The dot com bubble was fiscal stimulus. The housing bubble was fiscal stimulus.” What do you mean?

            The article you linked to discussed one coal mining company’s difficulties due to “… a difficult market in which power plants are switching to abundant, less-expensive natural gas and “a regulatory environment that’s aggressively aimed at constraining the use of coal.”

            Neither of those factors has anything to do with the supply of coal. The supply is there, but the demand is not. They can take it out of the ground, but they can’t sell it profitably. I thought supply was supposed to create demand. Guess not in this case.

            What about China? Do they have “a regulatory environment that’s aggressively aimed at constraining the use of coal?” Is that why coal prices are dropping in China? The following article says prices there are dropping “amid a global supply glut.” Not a local supply glut, a GLOBAL supply glut. It also says “We expect to see strong exports from the United States due to the shale gas boom.”

            http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/04/china-coal-idUSL4E8K41QB20120904

            If there’s so much available coal supply, why is US demand falling?

            Right. Because of lower natural gas prices.

            So it’s a bit of a zero sum game – power companies switch from coal to natural gas. Coal producers lose, nat gas extractors win. Not a recipe for growth.

            There’s been all sorts of talk of building systems to export nat gas, or use it to run more cars, but that would take years. And that would need to assume that nat gas prices will STAY low, which is far from certain.

            My example of the supply of available corporate cash was to demonstrate how “supply side” theory was not working. Corporations have an abundant supply of cheap cash, yet they are not employing it productively. Why not? If supply creates demand, and corporations have a ready supply of retained earnings to finance growth, why aren’t they supplying more to the economy? Again, I thought supply is supposed to create demand, especially cheap supply.

            I’m glad you’re operating your business at or near capacity. Congratulations.

            However, you again prove my point. You said “If we don’t have a stall building one is not an option when there are many other farms supplying them.” So there is significant additional supply available, but not enough additional demand to allow you to expand? Again, isn’t supply supposed to create demand?

            As far as your contention that “…the government has no money until it takes it out of the private sector…” – this is not exactly true, since the US Treasury actually prints and mints currency.

            Regardless, I understand your point to mean that the government gets its revenues from the private sector, which is not 100% true.

            The US government gets money from debt, taxes, inflation, fees and fines, and income-producing activities. But more to your point – yes, private interests fund most government activity. This is how societies work, with individuals contributing toward the common interests of society.

            I’m not proposing anything here. I’m still trying to understand how Mr. Romney’s plans are supposed to work.

            You aren’t proposing some “survival of the fittest” or some Lord Of The Flies scenario, right?

            Cool bridge, BTW.

          • Gregg Smith

            I mean when the tech and housing bubbles inflated it stimulated the economy big time. I’m not saying it was on purpose or good or bad. It’s what happened. There is no magic formula but if money is put at risk and jobs are created  (as with both bubbles) revenue increases. Taxing, not so much because it does not stimulate the economy. No one makes that claim.

            Obama has been brutal to the coal industry as promised. The demand is there and government is standing in the way. The quote from the article is dead on. Regulations are a killer to business. And no, I don’t favor anarchy, regulations have exploded. There is demand out the wazoo for coal but it’s not worth the risk for investors because of regulations. And please don’t tell me my position means I favor mountain top removal. Supply and demand works until government gets in the way. I still don’t get the money thing but I’ll try. If you are talking about lenders of money, interest rates are low because supply is high. The last thing my life needs right now is more stalls. There is a point of diminishing returns. We can choose the demand we want to supply, it’s not the other way around. Yes, supply creates demand as with IPhones and cars but the demand for communication and transportation is already there. The point is who can identify the demand and supply it best.

            The government   doesn’t have a dime unless it confiscates, prints or borrows it. All three ultimately take it out of the private sector through inflation, the devaluing of the dollar or taxation. That’s not arguable. It’s not theirs.

      • hennorama

        My aversion to DISQUS stringing out my direct response leads me to put it here. Sorry for any confusion. I’ll respond to your other points a bit later.

        My main goal in my original post was to get someone to explain Mr. Romney’s plans, and how exactly it is supposed to work. Your explanation seems to be supply-side theory. You have not discussed his proposed $500 billion in spending cuts, nor his increased defense spending, and how these can all happen simultaneously with either revenue-neutral or deficit-neutral changes to tax rates, deductions, exemptions, credits, and the overall tax code.

        Mr. Romney says his plans are either “revenue-neutral” or “deficit neutral” or some other term to be named later.

        If it’s deficit-neutral, then what’s the point? It neither decreases nor decreases the deficit. If it’s revenue-neutral, then we get neither additional nor reduced revenue, which increases the deficit, absent further spending cuts.

        Unless one takes into account some other factor. Let’s look at economic growth. Mr. Romney says, we’ll get 4% GDP growth from his plans.

        A 4% GDP increase, compounded over 4 years, gives a cumulative 17% growth thru 2016. Using the most recent GDP figures ($15.5856 trillion in current dollars), adding 17% gives us $18.235 trillion GDP for 2016.

        Assuming a 20% GDP max. for Fed. spending, per Mr. Romney, this gives us a maximum of $3.6470 trillion of spending, including $729.4 billion for defense (4% of GDP).

        Federal spending for 2011: $3.6031 trillion
        Defense spending for 2011: $ 768.2 billion (estimated)

        If we assume that Federal revenue under Mr. Romney grows at the same rate as GDP (4% per Mr. Romney) then we get (using the 2012 estimate of $2.4686 trillion in revenue) $2.8883 trillion in 2016 revenue. That would give us a maximum deficit of about $714 billion in 2016, 3.9% of GDP.

        $420 billion of added revenue. Is this what Mr. Romney means? He has said “no new revenue” multiple times.

        Estimated expenses for 2016:

        (http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BUDGET-2012-TAB/xls/BUDGET-2012-TAB-3-1.xls)

        Social Security $952 billion
        Medicare 638 billion
        Net interest 562 billion
        Income Security 530 billion

        Subtotal $2.682 trillion

        If you add defense @ 4% of GDP = $ 729 billion, we get

        Subtotal $3.411 trillion

        This leaves a net max. of $236 billion for EVERYTHING ELSE.

        Here are some other projected 2016 figures, not included above:

        Health 595 billion
        Physical resources 164 B
        Veterans Benefits 164 B
        Education, Training, Employment, Social Services 115 B
        Other functions 178 B

        What will get cut under Mr. Romney’s plans?

  • Steve__T

    This thing with disqus is so AAAAagggggravating I can’t edit my post they keep jumping from the second page to the top back to the middle, in and unreadable string of letters. I don’t think Ive ever seen any other forum so dysfunctional anywhere.

  • JONBOSTON

    I will keep asking until I get my question answered:

    For the Obama posters who post here, please identify for me Obama’s plan for growing the economy and improving the lot of the middle class. Other than taxing “millionaires, billionaires and trillionaires” (ie. anyone earning more than $250K), green energy jobs , and free contraceptives, I’m at a loss. Maybe Obama believes helping the middle class is hiring someone to handout coupons for free contraceptives to laid off green energy workers who previously earned over $250K.

    • Mike_Card

      You must be an incredibly important person; do you have a real name?

  • hennorama

    Headline from Bloomberg:  “Repealing Deductions Pays for 4% Tax Cuts, Study Says”

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/print/2012-10-12/repealing-deductions-pays-for-4-tax-cuts-study-says.html

    Throws a bit of cold water on Mr. Romney’s plans, perhaps?  This isn’t proof, but it does raise further questions, especially in light of the complete lack of detail in Mr. Romney’s plans.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      CNN did a report on Erin Burnett’s show that claimed the math could work. One of the reasons they were able to poke a hole in the TPC analysis was TPC ignored many categories of loopholes like muni bond interest. In their analysis they used IRS data from 2011 and income tax revenue was $1.1T and loopholes were $1.3T.

      One thing I have noticed is Mayor Bloomberg is spreading a lot of money around in activist causes. I suspect he is setting up fo run in 2016 and is therefore rooting for Romney loss. Also the Bloomberg network have had an anti-Romney turn of late.

      • hennorama

        I’m not saying it can’t work, but it seems doubtful. I’ve read some of the “6 studdies” Mr. Ryan talked about during the VP debate. You can see them here:

        http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/10/the-6-studies-paul-ryan-cited-prove-mitt-romneys-tax-plan-is-impossible/263541/

        The Bloomberg article was quoting a letter from from Joint Committee on Taxation, discussing its analysis. This wasn’t a Bloomberg study, but a Congressional
        study.

        And the Bloomberg article also said “Still, there are some important distinctions between Romney’s approach and the JCT analysis that make it difficult to compare…”

        Again, as I said, not conclusive, but raising more questions.

  • Gregg Smith

    I just caught the last line of a new Romney ad that focuses on the point the government has no money. People like to say we need more spending without realizing that central fact. Paraphrasing the ad, it says: Obama doesn’t just waste money, he borrows it from China and then wastes it.

    Bravo.

  • Gregg Smith
    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Why isn’t this causing more headlines in the US?

      Maybe Tom will do a story on it since he seems to be obsessed with AGW and should want to set the record straight.

      • Gregg Smith

        He’ll never do it. I knew Phil Jones at East Anglia admitted there has been no significant warming since 1998 after he was busted but, if my math is correct, 16 years puts it at 1996.

        To be honest, and I feel sure you’d agree, this is peanuts as is Romney’s tax plan or medicare or any of it. If Tom want’s to set the record straight, tomorrow’s show will be on the Benghazi cover up. President Obama went to bed when he learned the news of Stevens murder. I think it was late and he was drunk but that may be unfair. He went to Vegas the next morning without meeting with his security team. They lied about the video. It’s astonishing. Al Qaida is alive and well but that doesn’t fit the narrative that because Bin Laden is dead, it’s over. It’s not.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          You are 100% correct.

          Did you see Laura Ingraham on FNS? She called out the ineptness (or worse) of the media in not covering Libyagate directly pointing to the NYTimes reporter sitting next to her.
          Good for her and Brit Hume.

          • Gregg Smith

            Yes, I did see it. She and Hume were dead on. Why do I get the feeling tomorrow’s show will be on the mating season of the tsetse fly? 

  • https://me.yahoo.com/a/Yoxx_jY91O6DPDzI9ElomODqRSt_#87939 virginia stone

    I thought Romney’s incessant blinking on the first presidential debaTE WAS A sign THAT HE HAD BEEN coached how to avoid looking to the left when lying. It is technique that I have not seen anyone in the news mention at all.  If you watch the interview and are aware of it you want to run get some eyedrops for him.  When you speak from memory you look in one direction and in the other when speaking imaginatively.. Lying falls into the imagination category.  I would love to hear a speech coach talk about this.  

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      How do explain that Mr. Obama blinked 1000 times more than Mr.Romney?

      Btw- what were Mr. Romney’s lies?
      Just because Mr. Romney contradicted Axelrod’s 30 second ads doesn’t mean he was lying.

      USA Today did an article on this.

    • JONBOSTON

      This is one of the more insane posts that I’ve read in a long time. This being the On Point blog , that’s saying alot.

  • http://twitter.com/areallycc Margaret

    Court filing #GOP in Wisconsin… does this say like 2000 is this going to be chad counting Florida and Supreme Court deciding?

  • Dee

    Re” Palestinians have more rights in Israel than in other 
    arab country…..

    While it maybe true Palestinians have more rights in Israel 
    than in other Arab countries–it still doesn’t vindicate israeli officials from claiming they have the right to dictate to the 
    Palestinian people in their homeland and throw their weight around and bar them from certain areas and holy sites, etc

    In addition, claiming deeds to their land and homes are “invalid” and they have a right to confiscate such property
    and populate them with Jews from foreign land….That’s 
    ethnic cleansing and a war crime in my book and others. 

    Not to mention Israeli government efforts to degrade and demoralize the Palestinian people & treat them as second 
    class people at every turn… You can go to the B”Tselem’s website for the Human Rights abuses or read the following
    on counterpunch http://www.btselem.org/photos 

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2002/07/13/raping-the-palestinians/

    Still, if you wish to take a step back and return to the 
    root cause of this injustice you can return to Salman abu
    Sitta eye witness account in Geography of Occuaption
    in which he clearly states” “Zionist policy has always 
    been —we want the land we don’t want the people”

    http://www.alternatefocus.org/SittaShow.html

    Thus you can see the ugly face of Israel today and how 
    the state represents an ongoing war crime against the Palestinian people in their homeland – upheld by AIPAC
    and US and world Zionist Apologists. Is it any wonder ,
    many are looking to end this corrupt & unjust relation=
    ship today. I imagine, it must shame Jews everywhere. 

    http://windowintopalestine.blogspot.com/2008/12/palestinian-statelessness-is-american.html 

    http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20070702_a_declaration_of_independence_from_israe

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