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First Presidential Debate

Round one of the presidential debates. We’ll tally the score cards with Gail Collins and Jon Meacham.

Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney, left, and President Barack Obama speak during the first presidential debate at the University of Denver, Wednesday, Oct. 3, 2012, in Denver. (AP)

Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney, left, and President Barack Obama speak during the first presidential debate at the University of Denver, Wednesday, Oct. 3, 2012, in Denver. (AP)

Big to-do over the presidential debate last night.  Romney backers claiming a big win for a candidate who came in fired up and on offense.  Not the arch-conservative of the primaries now, but a smiling free-market man looking to channel Ronald Reagan.

In liberal realms, gnashing of teeth today.  The president made his points, but where was the fight, the passion, the smack-down they were looking for?  It was wonky.  It was polite.  It was lightly moderated.  And at least for today it has changed the tone of the race.

This hour, On Point:  the presidential debates, Round One.

-Tom Ashbrook

Guests

Gail Collins, op-ed columnist for the New York Times.

Jon Meacham, a Pulitzer Prize-winning author and executive editor at Random House. He is a former co-anchor of the public-affairs broadcast “Need to Know on PBS” and  former editor of Newsweek. He’s the author of the forthcoming book Thomas Jefferson: The Art of Power.

Jack BeattyOn Point news analyst.

From Tom’s Reading List

New York Times “A presidential race between an incumbent and a challenger, which has played out for most of the year in biting television commercials and fiery speeches, suddenly narrows to a pair of candidates standing side-by-side starting at 9 p.m. Eastern time. For 90 minutes, the rivals will be essentially equal, creating what Mr. Romney’s advisers believe is a critical opportunity to make a move in the race.”

National Journal “Mitt Romney has billed himself as the turnaround guy, and the first presidential debate presents a major opportunity for him to prove it by reviving his White House bid. The 90-minute forum at the University of Denver is a prime-time chance for both Romney and President Obama to argue the unfiltered case for themselves – and against their opponents – to tens of millions of Americans watching at home. Here are some of the political needs and goals of the two nominees.”

Wall Street Journal “Given the central importance of the economy, this debate—focused on economic and domestic issues—may well be the most important. Here’s a guide to the basic details, plus the issues likely to be raised, an assessment of the candidates’ positions and a look at their vulnerabilities.”

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  • Yar

    I hope someone puts a chess clock to the debate just to see how long each candidate spoke.  The bottom line; it is difficult to interrupt the President of the United States.  Everyone knows which person on that stage has the real power.  Pundits may have been looking for zingers or attacks from the President.  That isn’t his personality, his success is due to his competence.  He came across as the person in control.  He didn’t even have to say that democrats are easier to work with than republicans, Mitt Romney made that point for him. I expect President Obama got at least an extra minute or two into his side of the debate, maybe more.  In the end he was the one in control.  

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Obama spoke about 4:30 longer but if he believe that is because he was in control you are delusional.

      One of the commentators on Charlie Rose used an apt football analogy.  Obama had more time of possession but Romney ran 50 more plays from scrimmage than Obama.

      Obama was rambling and at times not even responsive.  He even begged Lehrer to change subjects at one point.  Never a good sign.
       

      • Yar

        Different realities my friend.
        The President did a good job, he is a skilled surgeon, Romney never even felt the cuts.
        Wow, four and half minutes, I suppose conservatives will blame Jim Lehrer, not accepting that the President skillfully used the power of his position to maintain control. It has to be someone else’s weakness, not Obama’s strength in the presidency. When it comes to holding the nuclear football, possession “is the game”.
        America isn’t ready for an angry black man, even as president. Although they seem to readily accept it from a rich white guy.

      • Don_B1

        Remember it was a debate divided into 15 minute segments for each “question.” When the answers and follow-up to one question have run to 25 minutes and each area has equal importance, the “debate” does need to move on. Romney was just repeating the same (false) talking points, so why not get on so Romney will be on the record for another set of “etch-a-sketch” talking points?

  • Ellen Dibble

    I think it would have been extremely dangerous for the president to have been any more reactive to the Etchasketch positions Romney was taking.  Romney could have made Obama look as if he was playing a very fast game of basketball, sneaking the ball this way and that.  The fact is Romney put out an awful lot of positions that, without context, might otherwise be the magic carpet the Democrats were planning to be flying upon.  Obama could say, great, that’s my position, you made my argument, or a lot of it that I thought was going to be my hill to climb.  But he didn’t.  Obama wasn’t about to be trapped into an etchasketch moment before seeing the whole Polaroid photo come out of the camera, so to speak.  So there are two projects:  (1) how does the latest version of the Romney plan congeal, vis-a-vis all the things touched on (vast, vast lots); and (2) how do Democrats answer that (aren’t these debates kind of important to those who pull the lever for senators and congresspeople for red or blue too?  Those shirt-tail effects might determine the kind of Congress — which might be as important as the presidency.  I did notice Obama saying that the 87 percent Democrats who collaborated on Romneycare in Massachusetts — Obama is just too polite to give lots of credit to Massachusetts Democrats in OUR legislature.  They might have taking the lead in Romneycare — I don’t know.  As to Romney sitting down every Monday for a couple of hours to talk with the legislators here whether or not they needed talking to — I thought the governor talked to the state government 24/7, actually.  And no, it didn’t need to be stated by Romney that the election is not all about him and Obama.  It never occurred to me to think of it that way at all.  … I think it is a trap to snap an answer at any number of opportunities Romney set forth.  A trap.  If you can get Obama to show himself to be as much of a bully and as free-and-loose with the facts as you, then you win.  But to coax him out of his shell you have to be a lot of a bully, to Jim Lehrer, who objected, and to Obama, who had a degree of insulation, to coax Obama out would be to win.  Why?  The cards have not been on the table, and cannot be in a 90-minute format, not when the deck is all new.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Pray tell Ellen, what were the etch-a-sketch positions?

      As you know, I am a Romney supporter and have studied his proposals very carefully and I didn’t hear ANYTHING new from Governor Romney last night.  Everything he said was very consistent with past statements and that was very inconvenient for Mr. Obama, perhaps that is why the President was off his game.

      • Don_B1

        I guess you didn’t try to do the math on Romney’s budget proposals. Romney has called for a 20% cut in all marginal tax rates for about a year, which strongly favors the rich: they get a bigger cut than even a straight reduction of their tax rates by decreasing each rate by some fixed number like 5%. 

        But I believe this was the first time that the public heard Romney speak the words hinting that he will adjust his tax rate cuts so that he can find deductions to eliminate so he does not reduce total revenue and does not increase the tax burden on the middle class. That had only been stated previously by a low-level adviser, so it IS new to Romney’s campaign.

        Then there is the continual re- and re-clarifications of Romney’s approach to Medicare “reform.” They change so frequently that to call them a moving target is a gross understatement.

        What seems clear is that Romney thought he could say anything that was necessary to “close the deal” with the radical right (including you?) and then etch-a-sketch back to more central positions. But he found he had not “closed the deal” until the radical right gave up pushing back as Romney’s poll numbers slumped over the past couple of weeks.

        The question, that Romney could have more difficulty getting the necessary spending to speed up the economy through the House (and the Senate if Republicans take control there) needs to be asked.

        Note that if the Republicans get control of both chambers of Congress they will present Romney with a “mother-of-all reconciliation bills” which will cut spending dramatically IMMEDIATELY and cut taxes mostly on the wealthy. The Senate would likely sustain a Romney veto, unless the Democrats decide to put the country at risk and let it see just what Republican policies would do.

  • Wm_James_from_Missouri

    I found the debate to be worthless in terms of new information. Why would the moderator ask the same questions that he and the rest of the press have been reporting on for the last “x” months ? Why doesn’t the press pull up old sound tracks on candidates and confront them with their own words ? Afraid to offend someone ? Why not ask Romney ( for example: ) . ‘What private, for profit, insurance company will pay for long term care on say, an 80 + year old stroke victim, who had let his health insurance lapse, due to lack of funds and now finds themselves homeless and in need of 24 hour care ? ’ We should ask future moderators to take part in a sample mock debate staring actors acting as Adolf Hitler and Roosevelt as see if the moderators take any answer that is given to them as gospel !

    • Wm_James_from_Missouri

      By the way Mr. Romney, and others, we need MORE organizations like NPR, not less ! I guess you would have us get all our IQ enhancement from Rush and Howard.
      *** Now those are two intellectual forces that will propel our young people to greatness and help defend your wealth with all of their private sector media education ! Even Adam Smith would have kept his mouth shut about that issue. ***

      • WorriedfortheCountry

         Romney said he supports NPR.  NPR can survive on supporters and even some advertisement revenues. That is the correct priority when we are borrowing $.40 out of every $1 from China.

        • Duras

          NPR, PBS, Food Stamps are just a long line of little things that are a tiny fraction of the budgets that republicans like to address, but they rarely address the leading drivers of the deficits.  Romney wants to bloat government where government is already bloated the most: the military and homeland security.  And cut government where it is already lean, such as public employment which is around 15% of the economy. 

          Look where republicans want to direct money: to wars and the already rich.  Those are two avenues that take money out of the economy, reducing consumerism in a demand-crippled economy. 

          • William

             A million here, a million there, before know it you are talking real money.

          • Ray in VT

            Yeah, something has to get cut in order for the House to pass billions in military spending that the Pentagon doesn’t even want.  Like Allen West said, you have to have priorities.

          • William

             Tell that to Leon Pennata.

          • Ray in VT

            Tell him what?  To take billions for projects that the Pentagon has determined as unwanted and unnecessary?  I think that the GOP has done a fine job of that already.

            Great come back, by the way.  Really top notch.

          • Duras

            His reply to me was full of hot nothingness as well. 

            That’s what happens when people cheerlead for political parties instead of having principles.

          • Ray in VT

            Sound and fury signifying nothing?

          • Duras

            Maybe republicans should cut government where it won’t take money out of the economy…?

        • Don_B1

          Romney said he LIKES NPR, and PBS, and even Big Bird and Jim Lehrer! But he doesn’t feel that the federal government should put one nickel to make them available to all children, rich and poor, who benefit from the intellectual stimulation.

          He will NOT be supporting the things that put children in poor families on a path to equal opportunities in life.

          To see that support for poor families works, read Jared Bernstein for links to studies demonstrating this:

          http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/inequality-and-growth/

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    OMG,  the emperor has no cloths.

    • StilllHere

      and no teleprompter.

  • Michiganjf

    Sad, sad, sad…

      Obama could have hammered Romney so mercilessly on so many of Romney’s inconsistencies.

    Apart from that, however, I’m most upset about Romney getting away with saying that, once he repeals Obamacare, people ” will still be able to buy plans that cover pre-existing conditions, or plans that cover your kids up to age 26… insurance companies were already offering those options.”

    Yeah, Romney, right… IN MILLIONAIRE WORLD!!!!

    My company’s health care premiums and deductibles have been going up absurdly every 3 years for the last 15 years… the yearly deductible is now over $5000, and we’re about to have another benefit increase… the last increase was BEFORE OBAMACARE!!!!
    I just had to have some expensive procedures AT THE END OF THE CALENDAR YEAR!!!
    I’m out four grand, and in a couple of months, I’ll have to meet the deductible ALL OVER AGAIN!!!

    Romney’s in La La Land as to how much Americans can actually afford for anything whatsoever, and just how limited the typical American’s options are on a limited income… THANKS TO 30 YEARS OF STUPID REPUBLICAN POLICIES implemented since the “Republican Devolution!!!”

    I fully expect Obamacare to bring these absurd increases in insurance costs under control ONCE OBAMACARE IS FULLY IMPLEMENTED!!!

    If Romney is elected, me and my family will be screwed, as will EVERYONE IN AMERICA except those who can afford to pay a grand or more every month for health insurance!!!

    GOT THAT ROMNEY???!!!!!

    Just because everyone you know is a multi-millionaire, DOESN”T MEAN ALL AMERICANS CAN AFFORD EVERYTHING YOU CAN AFFORD FOR YOUR FAMILY AND YOURSELF!!!!!

    BONEHEAD!

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Wait, Obama promised that premiums would be going down $2500 by now when they passed Obamacare.  They are up $2500/family.

      That has nothing to do with the GOP but the failure of Obamacare.

      Why do you give Obamacare a pass when it is failing on its promises?

      It was supposed to be budget neutral but the most recent CBO scoring shows it will add $2.3T to the deficit.  That is exactly what the critics warned of when it was pushed through in a uni-partisan fashion.

      They also promised that you could keep you insurance and now we find people losing their insurance and further threats because it will be cheaper for companies to pay the fine.

      Even if you want national healthcare, there are tons of problems with this particular plan.

      • Duras

        How can Obamacare reduce premiums if it hasn’t been fully implemented? 

        When Obamacare does become fully implemented, premiums by law have to be reduced.  And the CBO doesn’t show that it increases the deficits.  The CBO shows that it is cheaper than our current system (which is the most expensive system in the industrialized nation and more socialistic than Obamacare), and it reduces the deficits by a $100B over the next 10 years.  Oh, and it will save at least 20,000 lives a year!

        And the fine thing is also a lie.  The Fines are more expensive than the rates.  The only problem is your unwillingness to read independant analyses, let alone the law.

      • Michiganjf

        You have the same relationship with the truth as Romney, which is n relationship at all.

        Obamacare ISN”T EVEN HALF IMPLEMENTED YET, but when it is, it will start driving down healthcare costs significantly by limiting the amount of profit insuarnce companies can make as middle-men.

        Lying liars who lie SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO LEAD AMERICA OVER ANOTHER CLIFF… that’s YOU Republicans!

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Why only liberals on the panel?

    Hmmmm.
     

    • Ray in VT

      All of the conservatives are probably stilll out celebrating, thinking that they just fatally struck a blow to the President’s re-election campaign.

      • Gregg Smith

        That blow was struck 6 trillion dollars ago.

        • Duras

          I love how Bush can completely trash the economy and America, but get a free pass from conservatives because he was a war time president (which the war was also a blunder). 

          But Obama, who inherited a trillion dollar deficit, GDP contracting at 8.9%, a failing auto industry, two wars, and is trashed by the conservatives for not cleaning up fast enough (despite a republican congress who labeled his policies as “failed” on national tv before they took effect). 

          Have some standards for crying out loud.

          • StilllHere

            You conveniently forget that it was a Democratic Congress that threw us into recession, saying no to every Bush effort to avert it.  The blood is all over Democrats’ hands on this one.

          • Duras

            If there was one democrat that had any influence on the crash, it was Bill Clinton with his repeal of Glass-Steagall. 

            An underfunded government that was also engaged in 2 wars, a housing bill that had zero consumer protections, dark markets on Wall Street and a banking industry that was able to merge community banking with investment banking caused this recession.

            Look at the policies!  It is pure republicanism.  We need Glass-Steagal, which is tougher than Dodd-Frank, cut government where it is actually bloated (military and homeland security and fraud in Medicare) and get the effective tax rate on the 1% back to 35%, which is what it was under Clinton. 

            There is nothing wrong with any of that.  It has all worked before.  But what hasn’t worked is an effective tax rate on the 1% below 35%, deregulation, and an arms race with nobody.

          • Don_B1

            Your argument direction is right on; a few quibbles that don’t change the direction, just modify the strength:

            1) The “community banking” is a Republican red herring as it did NOT require changing lending criteria, it just said that there were qualified mortgage recipients that were not receiving mortgages but should.

            2) Not only did Clinton sign the repeal of Glass-Stegal, but he also signed the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 (during the Bush v. Gore debacle) which prevented the regulation of derivatives, the way the financial sector over-leveraged itself.

            3) In 1993, Clinton raised the top marginal income tax rate to 39%, which Bush lowered to 35%.

          • Don_B1

            I laughed so hard I couldn’t get to respond for 5 minutes!

            The financial crisis was in the works, baked in, by late 2007, BEFORE the Democrats took power due to the public’s unease at its approach. The Republicans were taking NO advice from Democrats before then, with the appointment of Christopher Cox to the SEC and no rebuke of Alan Greenspan’s REFUSAL to enforce a Democrat-passed bill to give the fed the power to enforce the law on shadow banks, which were generating a housing bubble and letting the investment banks over-leverage themselves.

            You are living in another set of dimensions.

        • Ray in VT

          At this point, as far as it is possible to tell, the electorate seems unconvinced of that.

  • Duras

    I now know why the republicans and Fox News released that tape of Obama speaking in New Orleans (even though he didn’t say anything wrong, let alone shocking).  In fact, there was zero rationale to release that tape.  But it shows an angry black man that I suppose is threatening to conservatives.  If Obama would have debated aggressively, he would have fallen into the republicans’ imaging strategy.  The secondary affect is that it did what it did: Obama didn’t mention how good Romney himself did under an Obama economy and how he could have easily paid more in taxes to help the economy, he could have hammered Romney on the auto bailout, etc.

    By the way, when Romney mentioned that Dodd-Frank protects the five big Wall Street Banks, then he should have said that he would break up those banks (which he has been asked about before but didn’t have the guts to say he would).  If there is indeed a provision that doesn’t allow other banks to achieve the status of the Big Five but allows the Big Five to maintain the merger of community and investment banking, well that is actually a step in the right direction.  If Romney thinks we should break up the banks, than he should show some of that “leadership” that he talks about and say it and stand for something.  (I think we should break up the banks.)

    • Gregg Smith

      He was race-baiting. I am reminded of Harry Reid commenting that Obama was light-skinned with no Negro dialect unless he wanted to use it. He sure was that night.

      • Duras

        Why did republicans and Fox News air a speach that got lots of press coverage at the time, where Obama says absolutely nothing wrong, and released it a few nights before the first debate?

        • Gregg Smith

          It was the Daily Caller. He was lying about New Orleans and the relief they received.

      • Ray in VT

        Sure he was, like when George W. Bush said that race played a role in the Katrina response.

        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/03/sean-hannity-obama-video-juan-williams_n_1935106.html?utm_hp_ref=media

        Also, I’m sure that former President Bush never, ever turned up or down the drawl based upon what audience to which he was speaking.

        • Gregg Smith

          The idea that Bush did not care about blacks so he let them suffer is hideous. Be careful with what you are accusing Ray. 

          • Ray in VT

            “Williams pointed out that George W. Bush himself had said that Katrina was rooted partially in racial discrimination.”

            Perhaps Mr. Bush should have been more careful regarding what he was accusing someone, perhaps himself, of.

            Be careful of what you are accusing me of accusing someone of, Gregg.

          • Gregg Smith

            Williams unquoted comment says nothing. It’s ambiguous. Don’t hide behind innuendo. What is the implication? Say it.

          • Ray in VT

            The Williams quote does in fact say something.  It says that George Bush said that race played a role in the Katrina response.  That’s not innuendo.  That is his statement.  By all means, if you have issues with Mr. Williams’ statement, then feel free to take the issue up with him.

          • Gregg Smith

            I believe Williams to be credible but what was the context? What was the quote?Was it: “Let’s send twice as much money because they are black”? Was it: “Let’s make the black Mayor keep all those buses parked so blacks will be stranded”? If you want to ignore the disastrous incompetence of Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco and put it all on Bush, I suppose that’s just illogical ideology, fine. But then to imply Bush was less concerned with Americans who were black because they were black takes it to another level. Don’t imply it, if that’s the accusation say it. If not, denounce it. Don’t just throw out innuendo.

          • Ray in VT

            I don’t know which comment by Bush to which Williams referring, but it well may have been the one here just below the picture of Tucker Carlson:

            http://thinkprogress.org/media/2012/10/02/946441/in-new-bombshell-video-obama-criticizes-federal-response-to-hurricane-katrina/

            I’m not accusing anyone of anything, so kindly do not say that I am.  I don’t throw out innuendo, thank you very much, so don’t try to pigeon hole my comments based upon your conception of what you seem to  think, and in this case definitely incorrectly, I am saying.

            I think that your response on this says more about your views on this topic than it does about mine.

          • sickofthechit

             You need to watch last nights Daily Show with Jon Stewart.  They showed tape of Bush saying that New Orleans had been ignored based on racial lines.

      • StilllHere

        So true.  He can turn it on and off at will.  I wonder if the teleprompter offers phonetic guides so he doesn’t stray.

  • Ed75

    Mitt Romney shouldn’t win because he debated better, President Obama shouldn’t lose because he debated worse. President Obama should lose because his policies are bad, Mitt Romney should win because his policies are decent.

    How can there be a debate about domestic policy without the Democrat’s signature issue of abortion?

    • Ray in VT

      I know. right?  I was really hoping to hear Mr. Romney’s view on how doctors can provide abortions to women who aren’t even pregnant or how he plans to shrink the government in order to make it just small enough to get it inside my wife’s uterus.

      • StilllHere

        Like some woman would subject themselves to being linked to you.  Laughable.

        • Ray in VT

          Ah, the personal attacks.  t must be a terrible thing to be so small and petty as one such as you.  But I can go tit for tat, and it isn’t necessarily below me.  I am quite happily married to a fine woman, which is probably more than you can say. 

          What’s the going rate for the companionship that you get?  Do you pay by the hour, and how do you pay for that on what I assume must be your McJob salary?

    • adks12020

      See there’s your problem.  You’ve got it backwards.  Conservative Republicans hold abortion as a signature issue; they are the reason it’s still such an issue.  Most Democrats thought the issue had been decided years ago (rightly so) ….let women choose what they want to do with their body.

      • Ray in VT

        Thinking that it had been decided years ago was a mistake.  Just look at the people who thought that the Evolution vs. Creationism in the schools debate got settled in the 1920s with the Scopes Monkey Trial.  They were also mistaken.

  • LinRP

    Rmoney was rolling out the same lie after lie like he was hopped up on too many Oreos, or else had a fever. Some pundit called him “caffeinated.” The speed and completeness with which Rmoney reversed himself on just about every one of his talking points was amazing.

    I think it was a good night for the pres. He let the rope pay out, until, uninterrupted, Rmoney ran through the script of his lies.

  • StilllHere

    I’m sure this biased panel won’t agree, nor the Obama sheep who lurk here constantly thanks to their DNC paychecks (at least I hope you stooges are getting paid to be so cluelessly irrational,you know who you are) but Romney clearly won the debate.  Obviously Obama’s ideas have little credibility given the pathetic recovery he’s overseen, so he was starting from behind right from the beginning.  

    Romney was confident, measured and presidential in a way we haven’t seen for 4 years.  Obama just kept repeating the lies he has for the last 5 years.  He looked inept tired and defensive.  The weight of a lack of logic are taking a toll on him.  He needs  a vacation, a long one.  Let’s give him what he needs!

    • MadMarkTheCodeWarrior

      Well Romney’s lies clearly weren’t working over the pas t few months so he changed them right on stage. So were you for Mitt before he was against Romneycare or after?

    • jimino

      Hey blowhard, can you identify even ONE loophole/deduction that Romney’s “plan” calls for closing?  Just ONE?

    • JGC

      Baaaaaaaa!

  • AC

    one smiled too much and the other gulped a lot. otherwise, i guessed everything they had to say….

  • rvl1

    It’s amusing to see Romney (and Scott Brown) abruptly shift away from the extreme rhetoric of the Republicans five weeks before the election. In their debates they took great pains to make themselves sound more like Democrats than Republicans with newfound appreciation for the values and goals behind the domestic programs their party aims to eviscerate. Etch-a-Sketch in plain view. They’re counting on the masses to believe any old thing you tell them as long as it’s delivered with enough kindliness, enthusiasm, and a smile. Yes – now it’s all about helping the middle class and caring for the elderly, poor, children, students…etc. and never mind what Romney said behind closed to his cronies. Whereas the Republican agenda all along has been about shrinking or eliminating programs that help average citizens while further enriching big business and the economic elite. Turning back the clock on women’s rights, intolerant of immigrants, the 47%, and any group that doesn’t look white and Christian, deregulating greed and pollution. If Americans are bamboozled by this show of hypocrisy they will get the government they deserve.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1816544 Dan Trindade

    That’s the best you can come up with Republicans? An angry, gesticulating rich white guy who only offers a bunch of wait and see, laissez faire, shell game bs wrapped up in grand platitudes about values and talk of the Real America? What the heck?! This is what’s held us back for the last 12 years? This? Bah! I don’t know who to be angrier at; Republicans for trying to turn America into some Ayn Rand-Objectivist corporate utopia or the Democrats for letting them get away with it for so long. Enough is a cotton picken enough already.

    • Gregg Smith

      He didn’t look angry to me, Obama on the other hand….

      • StilllHere

        Obama was pissed there were no teleprompters.  He was so uncomfortable, it was kind of pitiful really.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1816544 Dan Trindade

          We obviously were watching two different debates. Perception is apparently everything when it comes to opinions on debates.

          • StilllHere

            I don’t think you actually watched it and it’s clear you generally haven’t been paying attention.  Ignorance is bliss for you I guess.

          • Ray in VT

            If it is, then you must be the most blissful person here.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1816544 Dan Trindade

            Wow. That’s pretty insulting. Though coming from you I really shouldn’t be too surprised. You sir, are seeing what you want to see. I’m sure you’ll turn it back on me in your next comment but I for one am done with you. Have a great day.

          • StilllHere

            Whereas you are paragon of neutrality?  Please. 

          • Don_B1

            The Republicans have been succeeding based on theater rather than substance since Reagan and probably Nixon (“I have a plan.”).

            They make whatever claims needed to keep things “simple,” even when they are not a possible not to mention effective solution. But too often the voters buy it. And then the country pays a big price, and that price will be really huge this time.

            The problem here is the press reporting only the theatrics, which are important, but, at least not much yet, the substance of what each party said.

            And of course it is only the theatrics that Gregg and StillHere can talk about, because the substance is all with Obama.

            If you have not read it yet, this gives the reason why that old tape of Obama was revived:

            http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/09/fear-of-a-black-president/309064/

            Republicans ALWAYS play the race card whenever circumstances allow because when called on it, they accuse the caller of playing the race card and “win sympathy” for supposedly being falsely accused by people who are leery of people of the attacked race. Just look at Scott Brown (same campaign adviser as Mitt Romney’s) attacking Elizabeth Warren whose race can’t be part American Indian because she doesn’t look Delaware or Chippewa!?! It just knows no end of devious distraction.

  • JGC

    Oooh! I see Gail Collins is a panelist today. Could Gail comment on the rumors that the Romney Transition Team was seen lurking in the University of Denver parking lot last evening, taking measurements of the roof of the Presidential limousine for a Romney Dog Crate One?

  • Gregg Smith

    It was interesting that Obama embraced the term “Obamacare”.  
    I thought Romney won decisevily.

    • StilllHere

      Obamaphone soon to follow!

    • 1Brett1

      Hehe…yes, Romney put the EVIL back in “decisevily”!

    • Don_B1

      Obama realizes it says that Obama Cares for all the citizens of the country, not just the 1%.

  • Potter

    Win-lose does not cover what happened last night. For some reason Obama did not fight back the way he could have or talk as fast and smoothly as Romney. He seemed tired as a president might be. Obama’s shying away from the fight again disgusted us frankly.  But when we voice our disappointment with Obama for this (once again and maybe critically here) lets  also see the version of Romney that emerged. Let’s see Obama focussing on the few points that he did, looking directly into the camera, talking to the American people about Romney’s (essentially) flim flam sales pitch of no substance,of nothing that adds up. The Kickapoo Joy Juice Romney is trying to sell should be evident unless one is blinded by the Romney shine.

    And let’s not forget, young and old, that Romney would cut NPR and PBS- “Big Bird” and work to dismantle Medicare. This is his vision for America. It was out last night.

    For me, an Obama supporter, a lot more enthusiastic in 2008 than I am now, I also have to wonder if what happened was all about allowing Romney to hang himself, a sort of  ”rope a dope” in other words. Obama picked the few essential points to talk about, slowly and thoughtfully, out of the smoother faster flow of mischaracterizations and sudden position changes coming out of Romney. And there was plenty of Romney material for Obama ads

    Jim Lehrer was simply terrible. He gave very weak performance. This was even predictable. He should have retired from this occupation a few years ago. Where is the cane?  

    If Obama seems tired and off his game, then Romney seemed like a spoiled child, always having to get his way.

    There was more to this than win-lose.

    • Don_B1

      I think (maybe just hope?) Jim Lehrer was reacting to the different rules that were supposed to allow freer discussion and response to the questions, and from his close position could not see where the format was being abused?

  • NewtonWhale

    I thought I saw an etch a sketch. I did! I did! 

  • JGC

    Obama looked a bit subdued to me, although he was careful in making his points. As usual, the fact checking organizations upheld most of his statements. Romney was hyperenergetic, and had the wild grin and movements of a Howdy Doody marionette dressed in a bespoke suit. He did a good job in steamrolling over the facts with confident performance art. Yes, that’s it exactly – Romney, the Ultimate Confidence Man.

  • MrNutso

    Romney did what he needed to do, which get his base energized. He did that by being calm and straightforward in his remarks so as to come off more as your wealthy uncle and less like Greg Marmalard.  It was style over substance.  The Obama Campaign will hit him on his flip flops and the memory of Romney’s style will fade.

    • Gregg Smith

      You could be right but I think the ground is more fertile with Obama flip-flops. We’ll see. I think Romney did more than just sure up his base. I think he won some fence sitters last night.

  • Gregg Smith

    I have not seen any liberals pleased with Obama’s performance. Maybe I miss it. Just wait until they get to foreign policy. 

    • Duras

      I did like that Obama summed up Romney’s unwillingness to reveal his plans on a host of issues and said, “What, are they too good to show the American people…?”

      Couple that with Obama’s statement that actual leaders stand by their principles (don’t flip-flop) and present what they are standing for. 

      The fact-checkers have already come out with a few lies from Romney; wish Obama had called him out on the spot.  And I also wish that Obama had emphazied our American history a little more, and the fact that the economic conditions Romney proposes to move us toward are the farthest to the right since the pre-Depression era (that’s not Romney’s fault per se, it’s just that we’ve had 30 years of republicanism take us to its end).

      • Gregg Smith

        Were you pleased with Obama’s performance?

        • Duras

          I have had the same criticism of the democrats’ politicking style for the last 10 years: they need to politick like the republicans and start punching people in the nuts.  There was nothing really different last night. 

          I thought the only time Romney made him look ‘truly’ weak was on Dodd-Frank.  Although, as an informed citizen, I know that Romney hit on something (the five big banks being too big to fail) that is too complicated to understand for the average viewer and I know that Romney knows that the law he refered to is the best possible outcome unless you want to break up the banks and give stimulus money to the investment banks so they can recover, which is the correct solution but Romney won’t say he will do that, but Huntsman said he would have broken up the banks.  (Sorry for the long sentence.)

      • William

        Where is Obama’s budget? That is step one if you are planning a economic recovery for the nation don’t you think?

        • Duras

          His budget got voted down because it raised revenue on the wealthy and cut medicare to the democrats displeasure.   Republicans, like yourself, have been politicking that he didn’t put out a serious budget propose that got voted down by both parties.  When in fact his budget was too serious for the current political environment and it was more akin to Simpson-Bowles (like Romney was talking about, but Obama actually tried to pass these kinds of budgets throughout his term).  Remember?

          • William

             So you have to compromise and reach across the isle. Even his own party rejected his last budget.

          • Duras

            Get real with yourself.  Do you ever take an overview of your comments and see what an unctious twarp you are? 

            Seriously, you were against compromise yesterday, but today is another story.  I wonder why…. 

            You are such a puppet person.  Did you make head cheerleader in high school? 

        • StilllHere

          It’s the clearest example of his failed leadership.  He cannot even garner the approval of his own party because even they see the failure of his proposals.  Worst president ever!

          • Don_B1

            No Democrat could have done more to win Republican support for his programs; see:

            http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/hendrikhertzberg/2012/05/mann-and-ornstein.html

            where the book, “It’s Even Worse Than It Looks: How the American Constitutional System Collided with the New Politics of Extremism,” is discussed.

            Also read the book for the full documentation of how the Republicans have learned that there seems to be no penalty for them when they lie, even when caught.

    • MadMarkTheCodeWarrior

      He didn’t go for blood. I believe it was a calculated strategy not to look mean. – He could have eviscerated Romney on his real-time shifts in position… I would have loved to see some mocking and incredulity, but I’m not running for re-election. 

      • StilllHere

        Not mean, or not competent and confident, because that’s what he succeeded in doing.

      • Don_B1

        In particular, you are not a Black person running for reelection. See the article in the Atlantic:

        http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/09/fear-of-a-black-president/309064/

        That leads to an appreciation of the daunting, twisting line along the ledge he has to travel and an occasional weakening of his balance can be understood, though at this time in the campaign it is frightening.

        But Obama has gone against pundit’s opinions before, most recently in his attack on “Job Creators,” and been proved correct to have raised the issue.

  • StilllHere

    I think the empty chair would have done a better job.  Obama kept getting caught in his own lies and circular logic.  You’d think a sitting president would have better command of the facts.  I bet you he could tell you his three most recent golf games, hole-by-hole, though.

    • Gregg Smith

      He was stammering and unconfident but all he had were talking points which are never challenged by the press. Romney challenged him in a way he is not used to. I don’t know that any one has confronted him about his promise to cut the deficit in half… until last night.

    • rvl1

      You Still Here?  Your posts are popping up everywhere.

      You must like OnPoint – excellent, informative National Public Radio show. Public television too offers a great service to viewers tired of switching between 200 channels of nothing to watch on cable.

      Too bad your champion Mitt Romney said flat out he wants to kill public funded media. Says he loves Big Bird but Snookie is more to his taste. Then what are you going to do with your time?  Guess you’ll have to get a life.

      • Gregg Smith

        He doesn’t want to kill it just to defund it. They should be able to survive in the marketplace like everybody else.

  • 1Brett1

    …you’d think the usual neocon suspects on here would at least make up their own bad propaganda instead of parroting something they heard last night…nah, that would be a paradigm shift for them…

  • adks12020

    Jim Lehrer lost control of the debate last night.  He let the candidates talk over and past him all night. I hope the next two debates will be more focused and more directed by the moderators to elicit focused, precise answers rather than campaign rhetoric. 

    • Gregg Smith

      I can’t say I disagree but I though it was a good debate. Lehrer did not make himself an issue as some moderators do. 

      • adks12020

        Yeah, it was like he wasn’t even there which I think is a problem.  I think the moderator should let the candidates speak but on several occasions both Romney and Obama basically said “no, listen to what I have to say” and just kept talking. So rather than pressing the candidates to glean some actual insight by asking a leading questions we got campaign crap. It’s not uncommon but it’s a total waste of time. No one that pays attention learned anything new last night.

    • Ellen Dibble

      I thought the debate had Obama dealt by the coin toss to give the first opening, and Romney by the coin toss dealt the last closing.  However, when Romney tried to get an extra re-recross, however you want to put it, explaining that he was going to claim the last word on EACH issue, besides the entire debate, and right then Lehrer let him have it, I thought you know what, he lost the debate there, on the grounds of bullying the moderator.  After that, when Romney did it again, and again, Lehrer rolled his eyes, but Obama was cool.  And it seemed to me Obama made his points, but wasn’t going to get into the weeds with a whole host of new angles designed to get him to do that, go into the weeds.  Romney didn’t earn my respect with his changing the rules in midstream, in my view.  I could certainly put it less diplomatically.

      • Gregg Smith

        It turns out Obama was given more time than Romney when all was said and done. Romney did more with less in my view. He did not get 50% of the time he got… are you ready… wait for it… 47%. It’s true.

        • StilllHere

          In Obama’s defense, I don’t think his incessant stammering should count against him, timewise at least.  It was painful to see him try to grasp at facts and concepts he doesn’t fully comprehend. 

          • Gregg Smith

            Very good point.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

            He didn’t stammer last night.

            Stupid try though. As many know I’m not an Obama fan but you are just making up he stammered.

        • Ellen Dibble

          Five minutes more, but it seemed a lot more, because it left people like me with a whole haystack of new angles, that didn’t necessarily weave into whole cloth — at all. It seemed like he had the whole show.  Obama did say, clearly, what we already know.  Not confusing at all.  So I can collapse that into almost nothing.

      • MrNutso

        He was pulling a Palin.  She didn’t want to stick to the rules and answer questions she wanted to answer, not what the moderator was asking.  He was doing the same thing in a way by trying to run the show rather than conform to the rules.

        • Prairie_W

          Exactly. Well said.  For several years and maybe longer (maybe it just took longer for me tofigure it out) the right has been working on a new strategy: “We don’t have to stick to any rules.”  That applies to lying, to voting, to Congressional Republican behaviors… you name it. 

          You’re right to bring Palin into this:  both candidates, Palin and Romney, have demonstrated during their public forays that they are among the most pernicious narcissists we’ve managed to produce.  “The rules don’t apply to me” fits very nicely into the profile of the narcissist.

          And let’s not forget:  Romney can afford to put his all into campaigning and debating.  Obama is able to be about 50% there at best.  Where’s the rest of him?  Oh, Aleppo and Benghazi and whatever else was in yesterday morning’s briefing, and this morning’s, and tomorrow’s ….

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/3OZN5GBMDBBS3ZCKCOUF62ZOFU chad carlson

    The big elephant in the room was never really addressed—the National debt, which is not surprising given that no one wants their pet government program to be cut. Romney alluded it by threatening Big Bird, and by pointing out that like Spain, which is in financial disaster, the U.S. has 42% of its economy relying on government. I was disappointed, but not surprised, that Jim Lehrer failed to make a distinction between a budget deficit and a national debt; he used them interchangeably as if they were the same thing. (Lehrer’s performance was awful.) Stylistically Obama looked like Nixon in 1960. He did not, and indeed could not, defend the fact that the National debt has ballooned since he has taken office; Romney pointed out that it has increased under Obama more than any previous president in history. Obama continues to exploit the ignorance of the American people by pushing his mantra about “shipping jobs overseas,” which anyone with a basic understanding of how free markets works knows is a dead letter. Incredibly Obama stated that “Social Security is structurally sound.” This is as absurd as Gerald Ford’s assertion in the 1976 debate that Eastern Europe was not then under Soviet domination. I didn’t hear one commentator jump on that after the debate. Missed opportunities: Obama should have stressed Romney’s opposition to Choice, and Romney should have pushed more on the president’s out of control spending and comment on Social Security. It would have been a revelation for the American people to have had the only other person who will be on the ballot, Gary Johnson, participate. It would have cut through the smoke and mirrors and made a lot of people realize that he believes what they believe in—financial responsibility and social acceptance.

    • sickofthechit

       Where is that 42% from?  With something like 1 million government employees I have a hard time understanding how they are 42% of the economy.

      • Don_B1

        Mr. Romney is probably including all state and local taxes as well as federal taxes.

        But as I said above, the percentage of the economy from government operations is not relevant to the deficit or debt level; what is relevant is the amount of that government activity that is FINANCING the debt. Consider Italy, which is fiscally in primary surplus; it is the amount it must spend to finance its debt that puts it in annual deficit, which means that its total debt is climbing, and when that debt is climbing faster than its GDP, it is on the way to Greece.

        The United States is NOT, repeat NOT, anywhere near the status of Spain and Mitt Romney knows that or he is not the businessman he claims he is. But he is confident he can flim-flam enough voters to vote for him through such deceptive tricks.

        Do you really want a president that will not tell you the truth about a most serious issue?

    • Ellen Dibble

      Where were you during the decade of the 2000s?  I was trying to get economists to put 2 and 2 together, and the economy had enough momentum from the 1990s, and the peace dividend to the extent we had it.  We could have been fiscally responsible, and invested in the future both by saving and by taking careful aim at where next.  What did we do?  We had mortgage brokers coming at us with the too-good-to-be-true, must-take-it-now, the better to be churning the housing market (not to stabilize communities) — and a lot of profits would be realized by several layers of people with pricey management graduate degrees.  So now when I hear the same kind of buy-it-now urgency out of someone with a similar background, I think twice — or three times.

    • Don_B1

      You are correct on a few items and terribly misinformed on a number of others:

      1) PBS is about $0.44 billion which is less than chicken feed against a $1.2 trillion deficit, or a $16 trillion debt.

      2) The percentage of the economy that is generated by the government is not relevant to the deficit and debt levels: when the government spending is to provide teachers for the next generation, first responders to protect against emergencies, and physical infrastructure to help manufacturers move goods, people have access to the energy to meet their needs, and do the research that will provide the physical and biological understanding which allows individuals to develop treatments and goods to sell in the marketplace. These are things that the Republicans have been cutting back on so that you have to have more wheel alignments from hitting potholes, etc., and that job in medicine is not there because the idea to combat a disease has not yet been found.

      3) The national debt has increased by a bit over $4 trillion, but the only additional spending, of real significance relative to that number, that Obama has created is the ARRA of about $400 billion a year for TWO years, and the increased spending on Homeland Security. The other increases in spending are in accordance with Social Safety Net provisions, which were last expanded under the G.W. Bush administration. It is true that the “Bush tax cuts” were extended along with an extension of the F.I.C.A. withholding reduction (the reduction is made up from general revenues) and a few other smaller items. See:

      http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/05/the-chart-that-should-accompany-every-discussion-of-deficits/238786/

      and:

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/how-america-went-from-surpluses-to-deficits/2011/04/13/AFJ0ZtaF_blog.html

      4) Since U.S. corporations hold some $6 trillion in cash profits abroad that they will not bring back supposedly because of “high taxation,” they are giving up the ability to make productive investments (at least if you believe in “supply-side” economics) in the U.S. and apparently do not have places to invest it abroad, either. $6 trillion could create quite a few jobs!

      5) Social Security was a pure pay out what comes in (with a little cushion) until President Reagan and Congress studied the problem of the coming “Baby Boom” surge in numbers of retirees that would over-stress the system, which resulted in what Al Gore called the “Lockbox.” The amount of withholding was increased to build up a reserve so that there would be enough money to pay the  Baby Boomers their benefits. But the actuaries assumed that the growth in profits would be shared across the executives and workers in a much more fair way than has turned out for the last 10+ years. This distortion has led to less money being paid into F.I.C.A. that was anticipated, which is the reason that the longevity of the “Trust Fund” is “only” 25 years. The most equitable “fix” for this problem is to raise the “cap,” currently at $110,000, to allow the money that “should” have gone to lower-income workers to be taxed on the income of higher-income workers.

      6) There is a problem in handling elections where there are more than two contestants; the presence of a third person in last night’s debate would have diluted the interaction between the two men. There would have been the possibility of Mr. Johnson’s asking Mr. Romney to back up his outrageous claims, but that was a task that President Obama is quite capable of doing though in this case he didn’t. Some of that was apparently due to a misbegotten strategy that could well have had at least some origins in the problems that a Black man has in occupying a position of power, as well described here:

      http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/09/fear-of-a-black-president/309064/

      A president with a lead in an election is well advised to not be over aggressive, but last night Obama went into a shell of some sort, but a Black man as president has even more treacherous shoals to navigate.

      This does not excuse him from not performing better, but it can at least provide some understanding of how it happened. Some of our best presidents have had worse days.

  • Potter

    I am with Paul Krugman who blogged:

    So enough with the theater criticism; Romney needs to be held accountable for dishonesty on a huge scale.

  • MrNutso

    Tying in with adks12020′s comment, I hope the panel will discuss the debates themselves.  In the information age do we really need to have debates.  Especially “debates” that aren’t really debates (or at least not the way I was taught in high school).  

    I think the electorate we would be better served if each candidate sat before a panel and answered questions.  The Q&A’s could be taped so that neither candidate heard what the other said, and then both recordings played one after the other.

    I would make up the panel by having news networks and print media organizations submit one name and have the names drawn  randomly.

  • 1Brett1

    …Romney likes Big Bird? Yeah, enough to chop off his head and cook him in a frying pan. What’s that cut represent? A tenth of a percentage point or something? That’ll help bring our debt down, oh yeah…

    • Gregg Smith

      Make up your mind Brett. If the money (a 10th of a%) is so insignificant how does taking it away chop off Big Birds head and cook him in a frying pan?

      • sickofthechit

         Because, to the comparatively small size of the NPR budget it is a lot of money.

      • StilllHere

        Nice catch, very much like how Obama kept getting caught in his own deceit last night.  What was America thinking 4 years ago?  Enough with the on-the-job training.  Let’s get somebody who has accomplished something bigger than themselves.  Obama wasn’t a very good community organizer and he’s been a terrible president.

      • Ray in VT

        I think that he meant that the CPB money is 1/10 of 1% of the federal budget deficit.

        • Gregg Smith

          I don’t know how much they get but the defense always seems to be that it’s next to nothing.

          • Ellen Dibble

            The fact Romney singled PBS out as a program to cut to me indicates that he wants PBS to get more funding from the likes of Sheldon Adelson, with corresponding shifts in attitude.

          • Don_B1

            Exactly; just as the conservatives claim that PBS indoctrinates children with liberal ideas (why they want to defund and kill it), they would indoctrinate the children with distorted history (Lynn Cheney) and other right-wing radical ideas on evolution and climate change.

        • Don_B1

          The CPB has a 2012 budget of $440 million, which is less than 1/20th of the 2012 deficit.

      • 1Brett1

        um, I was joking, but I did have a point. The “insignificance” would be to the US debt. Cutting funding to PBS, NPR, etc, would be significant to THEIR budgets, however…

      • 1Brett1

        The significance would be to funding for PBS, NPR, etc.; the insignificance would be to reducing debt, but, hey, Romney can chop off Big Bird’s head, cook him up in a big ole’ frying pan, and between that and cake, the poor can eat for months!

    • OnPointComments

      Romney has it right:  for every dollar spent, we should be asking whether the expenditure is such a vital government program that we should borrow the money from China and burden the next generations with paying it back.  PBS is great, but it is not a vital government program.

      • http://www.facebook.com/bcmcknight77 Ben McKnight

        I saw a image that said cutting PBS to reduce the deficit is like deleting text files to free up space on your 500GB hard drive.

        • OnPointComments

          There’s an old saying:  watch the pennies, and the dollars will take care of themselves.  Most of the time when someone says that an expenditure isn’t big enough to be important, it’s a pretty good indication that it isn’t a vital function of government and should be cut.

  • J__o__h__n

    Jim Leher was awful.  (I usually like him.)  There are other domestic issues besides the economy and they weren’t mentioned.  Romney would poison the Supreme Court for decades if he is elected. 

  • Dab200

    Hard to debate someone like Romney because on every subject it was very clear that Romney had not finished debating with himself. He changes all his positions so often that it is almost impossible to keep track and to really know were he stands.

  • sickofthechit

    I am depressed and will be spending most of the day in bed hoping for dreams which include Obama whupping Romney’s donkey+mule in the next two debates….

    Less than a week for Lyin Ryan to get his comeuppance here in “Ol’ Kentucky” from Joe.

    • Gregg Smith

      Biden is a good debater, I hope Ryan doesn’t underestimate him.

  • http://twitter.com/Astraspider Astraspider

    Did Romney snort a bag of Ritalin before he went on?

  • JGC

    Romney’s line about his 5 sons (insinuating they are liars?! Gee, Thanks Dad!) only reminded me that they are all (at least 4 out of 5 of them are) bankster/real estate/private equity moguls, just like their dad, chips off the old Blockhead.  And that not a one of them served in the armed forces (especially not Dad Mitt, who was even documented protesting in favor of the draft (!!!), not just the Vietnam war, but the draft itself, before skedaddling over to France on a religious deferment. (BTW, I hope everyone got to listen to Senator Jim Webb’s speech in Virginia, last week, touching exactly on the subject of service and the 47%.)  And that even as a President Romney would appoint Supreme Court justices to further restrict reproductive research and access to safe reproductive health care for women, one of his own boys entered into a paid pregnancy surrogate agreement with clauses that provided for selective embryo reduction and abortion in case of genetic abnormalities. Thanks for reminding us about your Family Values, Mitt.

    • Ellen Dibble

      When we think of the service offered to our armed forces and lifelong ramifications for not only the soldiers but their families, I have to say I’m ashamed at the suggestion by Romney that voters over 55 would vote in their own self interest, and ignore the effects of his Medicare/Medicaid policies on those of generations to come.  Specifically, he suggested those over 55 tune out to policies that would not affect them directly.  Well, Obama followed him into those weeds to the extent that he said those 54 and 55 might want to pay attention.  Aren’t we voting in the interests of the best interest of the nation as a whole, knowing that there are times when we are called upon not to be self-interested citizens but “good” citizens?  What happened to that “value”?  Are we just watching for who’s ringing our bells loudest?  Which policy will make us the strongest nation, in a pretty competitive world?  That’s the issue.

  • Shag_Wevera

    That format was insufferable.

    • OnPointComments

      I am glad that they finally had control of the audience and there wasn’t the whooping, hollering, applause, and booing that usually accompanies the debates.

      • J__o__h__n

        The presidential debates audiences are usually quiet.

        • Guest

          I think maybe they were thinking about the Conventions.

  • J__o__h__n

    I can’t believe Obama didn’t mention Mitt’s record as a job destroyer. 

    • StilllHere

      There were only so many lies Obama could spew, especially when he had such a hard time constructing a sentence anyway.  Sad, really.

      • J__o__h__n

        Mitt lied on his tax policy.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

    Mister Romney I like PBS. I learned a lot from them and I learned nothing from you last night. You looked very nervous and I thought you will have a nervous break down.

    You such liar!!! The 60 minutes interview proved that you protected the 1% and your answers last night. you still protecting them by hypocrisy.

    • Don_B1

      Senator Ted Kennedy got it exactly correct back in 1994 when he said, “Mr. Romney does not support just the left position, or the right position; he supports all positions.”

      The problem is that when the issue comes up for a decision, he has to chose one position, and that will hurt someone as well as benefit others. Should the voter have an idea of what direction that decision will go?

  • IsaacWalton

    Mitt “turned around his campaign” last night. Yeah, he’s the turn around guy…let me see. Let me say THIS then turn around and say THAT. Oh please Mitt. Just turn around and walk out. Sorry, no real substance to my comment…just laughing at how the repubs will spin last night as a victory to hopefully convince fence sitters that he’s the right choice after that laugh of a debate. 

  • Davesix6

    The main reason Romney clearly won the debate last night is simple.

    The voters finally had an opportunity to listen to Romney, “unfiltered” by the main stream news media, lay out his policies to the American voters.

    We got to see Romney as he is, not the caricature of Romney that liberals want to portray.

    • J__o__h__n

      We saw him as someone who doesn’t let the facts get in the way of his talking points.  How Reagan like!

      • Davesix6

        As a matter of fact J_o_h-n, the debate last night reminded me of the 1980 debates between Reagan and Carter as well.

        Reagan was able to point out “the facts” of Carters record, unfiltered.

        More evidence that the Obama Presidency has been in fact Jimmy Carters second term!

        • StilllHere

          So true, with America held hostage!

      • RobertLongView

        Take America back, WMR, to the Reagan Trickle Down Austerity agenda and destroy the middle-class for good.  

    • JGC

      Just like we got to see Unfiltered Romney speaking to his Florida donors in May…The Real Romney.

    • StilllHere

      Moreover, we got to see him with the president and the president was weak, ineffectual, unprepared, confused and deceitful.  No wonder Obama has been pushed around by leaders of other countries.  He is completely out of his league. 

      These debates are going to be great for Romney.  They completely counteract the media’s slanted view of him and they shine a harsh light on the president’s lack of competence.

      • Davesix6

        Absolutely correct! Excellent points!

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

       He’s looks deranged. But if you’re good with that, OK.

    • RobertLongView

      I dunno who’s drooling the most between you two.  

  • Michiganjf

    Why has military participation in the election dropped so drastically in 2012 through absentee voting?

    Most military tend to vote Republican, AND THEY SURE AS HELL DON”T WANT  ROMNEY LEADING OUR COUNTRY!!!

    That’s another one we owe you American heroes!!

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

       Uh, they aren’t in Iraq anymore?

  • J__o__h__n

    Keep funding PBS, but retire Jim Leher. 

    • Guest

      I like Jim Leher, I felt bad for him. They should have let Jet Li moderate and when someone tried to step on him he could have stepped back.

  • Davesix6

    It looked for most of the evening as though Romney was talking to an empty chair.

    Clint Eastwood had Obama pegged all along!

  • Ellen Dibble

    I’ve heard good analysis of Romney’s attack that Obama gave 90 billion in tax cuts to green energy, which compares to something like 5 billion a year in breaks to the oil industry.  It went like this:  the 90 billion was part of the stimulus package, and isn’t all spent; it’s spread over something like four years, not one year, and it includes nuclear waste cleanup, new technologies to make coal cleaner (which presumably Romney would favor too), and so on.  It is not all certain new solar energy startups that got scrunched by Chinese policies outsmarting us or whatever it was.  Wily of the Republicans to pull up certain figures that take about a half hour to begin to pull apart.  Could Bill Clinton have done it?  

  • Ellen Dibble

    By the way, good for the Massachusetts Democrats, the 87% of the legislature for getting Romney on board with that health program.  Could they do the same in DC?  Could they?  

  • John_in_Amherst

    A rather dismal performance by all three men on stage in Denver.  Starting with Mr. Lehr, it must be said in his defense that nothing short of a mic cut-off switch would have allowed him to reign in both candidates, but especially Mr. Romney (for whom a cudgel might have at times been apropos).  Lehr also permitted both men, but again especially Mr. Romney, to veer from the topic at hand and get away with assertions, distortions, ellipses and bold misstatements of facts.
     
    Romney, somewhat manic and more than willing to repeatedly talk over both the President and the moderator, attempted to point out failings in the current administration’s policies.  His arguments would have been more persuasive had he stuck to the truth and/or offered details of his own plans.  His platitudes about fixing the economy by freeing the job-creators, allowing the magic of the marketplace to sort out healthcare, and correcting the deficit by “growing the economy” in a world that teeters on the brink of financial and ecological collapse were both vapid and vexing.  This is especially true where his claims of restoring bipartisanship collide with the social policy and economic pledges he has made to his evangelical and tea party base.  “Mr. Romney, how would you deal with a congress where your opposition votes in lockstep against every piece of legislation and every appointment you introduce, threatening to filibuster and shut down government at every turn?” 
      
    President Obama was even more timid than usual in rebutting the opposition.  There were times when he appeared to almost raise his voice when challenging his opponent’s mischaracterizations of his policies, and record.  Good heavens!    Showing just a bit more pique at Romney’s slander and misrepresentation of facts and history would have been not just understandable but appropriate.  Hewing a bit closer to facts would not have hurt in making some points as well.  From day one of his presidency, Mr. Obama has puzzled many in his own party with his non-combative demeanor.  Last night this overly-conciliatory manner was mixed with what appeared to be ennui or fatigue, and it did little to convince anyone his heart is in this.  “Mr. President, the GOP seeks to eviscerate healthcare and the social
    safety net, roll back social policy and women’s rights, and further skew the income distribution in favor of the super-rich.  Show us, sir, how does that make you feel?”

    After the first “debate” it’s back to the spin machine, the PAC-paid barrage of TV soundbites, the pundits’ hype and the pols’ bluster.  The fact-checkers are working overtime while the somnolence envelops the electorate.  Please, BOTH sides!  We are in desperate need of leadership, not bumper sticker slogans.

    • Potter

      Excellent! thank you for this.

  • AC

    gee. i’m not sure i watched the same debates as everyone. i thought both of them were a little odd, boring and predictable in terms of what they would say – how did i miss all this tension everyone is going on about?

    • Ray in VT

      Maybe you hadn’t made up your mind about what you were seeing ahead of time?

    • MrNutso

      I agree with you.  After the first 15 minutes or so, I had to struggle pay attention.

  • SomMom

    As a Mass. resident, I have to warn anyone leaning toward Romney after last’s night debate that he really IS “Mr. Etch-a-Sketch”! 

    He was trying to make himself seem bipartisan and moderate last night, denying the facts of his budget plan, embracing Mass. healthcare and claiming that HE was responsible for the success of Mass. schools, when he was actually cutting our schools’ funds and local aid left and right!

    He was our governor for 2 years, then hit the presidential trail, changed from pro-choice to anti-abortion, dropped his concern about the environment, and generally embraced conservative stances.

    Obama really needs to hit him on his Flip-Flopping. Who is the REAL Mitt Romney who’s running for president???

    • keltcrusader

      SomMom, I also remember this period very well – our property taxes went through the roof while Romney was in office and fees on almost everything had crazy increases as well just so he could say he didn’t raise MA Income Taxes. Loved his comedy routine while he was on the circut too – no joke about MA was too low for him.

      The man is a pathological, pants-on-fire liar. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/jyldyz.djumalieva Jyldyz Djumalieva

    The cultural perceptions are so different! To me (an international student), Romney appeared too wordy and scurry, while many Americans perceived him as assertive and confident. Go figure :)

  • http://www.facebook.com/josh.mcdonald.9889 Josh McDonald

    Romney said he doesn’t believe unelected bureaucratic panels should dictate healthcare. Does he not understand how private health insurance works? Or will he be outlawing HMOs?

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

        Death panels are great when it’s some rich men killing you off for profit.

      • northeaster17

        You’ve made Josh’s point nicely. 

      • Government_Banking_Serf

        Eat meat, veggies, natural fats, low carb., dump the paranoia, and call me in the morning.

    • Government_Banking_Serf

      Hmmm. One unaccountable government-empowered panel, or competing panels in a marketplace where you can support or ditch any panels based on performance.

      The trite demonizations of the market by leftist ideologues is falling on its face.

      • http://www.facebook.com/josh.mcdonald.9889 Josh McDonald

         ”…where you can support or ditch any panels based on performance” is good in theory. But here in the real world, most of us have to take what we can get and be grateful that we’re getting anything at all.

        • Government_Banking_Serf

          With all due respect, that is a horribly cynical and defeatist view of the market and freedom. 

          That is a perfect example of being so defeated you are ready to hand over any last vestige of liberty for your scraps from the elite.

          Is Self-Governance, Democracy, Vigilance, Accountability, Change etc challenging? Yes.

          Do we give it up because it’s hard?

          I hope not.  There is no alternative. Communism and faith in Statist Control will not work.

          • http://www.facebook.com/josh.mcdonald.9889 Josh McDonald

             I’d say it’s a realistic view. It’s the reality of the health-care system we have in this country. And I’m not saying I know what the answer is. I’ve never much liked Robomneycare as a solution; not as Romeny’s plan in Massachusetts, and no better as Obama’s plan now. But it’s clear something needs to be done, because the current system has been broken for decades now and shows no inclination towards improvement.

          • Government_Banking_Serf

            We just need to be careful what we wish for, and what we give up for it.

            We should try our hardest to enforce the rules of the marketplace and well as we can to allow competition to do the most it can, including all the shenanigans of the financial crisis.

            White collar prosecutions would create a very different background out there, we should try it.

            Any candidate who came out with a Rule of Law, Enforcement of basic, necessary regulations, along with a discussion of why that is essential for a vibrant market and democracy, would get my vote.

            Creating too big to fail institutions and 0 prosecutions to date does not cut the mustard.

  • Michiganjf

    Obama needs new debate advisors!

    Stations like CNN showed the President ONLY from the chest up… no one could see he was writing notes while Romney was speaking.
    Instead, of looking “professorial” while he took notes, he looked sheepish as you could only see him with a bowed head!!!

    What the hell were they thinking??!!!

    … and WHAT was Obama writing???

    … it sure wasn’t rebuttals to Romney’s distortions and inconsistencies, BECAUSE WE RARELY HEARD THE REBUTTALS!!!!

    GOOD GRIEF, Mr. President!!!!!

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

       Obama threw the debate.

      He doesn’t want to go to class war where it should go with Romney who is a billionaire who made his money destroying American companies.

      Why? Because Obama works for the criminal elite too.

      • RobertLongView

        Yeah, Obama as POTUS had to walk a fine line.   Shows to me he is factual and will “get back to electorate” on the Romney lies.  Give WMR enough rope and he will trip up and be twisting in the wind soon enough!

  • gemli

    As I said in a NY Times comment to Gail Collin’s Opinion piece, I almost wish Bill Clinton was on the ticket.  Clinton would not have let Romney catch his breath. With all of the foolish comments, outrageous denials, and rehearsed zingers, Bill would have pointed out that there is more at stake than Romney getting into the White House. He’ll be taking Cheney and Rove and lots other characters that would make Voldemort blanch into the job with him, letting them establish a command center to dismantle democratic rule in the very heart of the democracy. There will be new wars on the horizon, bloated military budgets that even the military was too embarrassed to request, and the end of social safety nets as we know them. Big Bird, unlike the Thanksgiving turkey, will get no presidential pardon. Elderly parents will not have to worry about losing Medicare, but their children will. The middle class will see their taxes rise and their deductions dwindle, and millions of people have less money to spend. Somehow this will cause small businesses to hire scores of people, presumably to handle the lack of demand.How could the president let all of this go unchallenged, or worse, to respond with dry and wordy rebuttals that were lost in the glare of Romney’s plastic smile? Romney looked bright and shiny when it was over, but Obama looked as though he had been strapped to the roof of a car and driven hard. Playing it safe was the most dangerous thing Obama could have done.

  • Rajan Desai

    Pundits were too quick to call a winner… if “looking good and sounding good” was the criteria – sure.

    The “fire” was all bogus and based on a lie. I don’t want to see the president who has style and no substance.

    Romney as usual had no solutions…

    Enough already.  

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Obama sounded tired last night.  Regardless of who told the most lies (they’re both politicians), Obama came off as running out of steam.

    • IsaacWalton

      It’s understandable. He’s had a tough 4 years. Contrast to Romney who hasn’t had it hard—ever.

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

         Understandable, to be sure, but not good for his re-election hopes.

  • Thinkin5

    Romney was like trying to nail jello to the wall. The Takeover Artist at his best, promising everything and lying about what he is really planning to do.

  • working_for_change

    Well, what do you think about the debate? Game-change? I think not. To
    me, The Obama that came through was the one we know. Steady and on
    message and truthful. The Romney that came through was also true to form, hoping
    that by aggressively asserting that his opponent has failed or isn’t being
    factual that such assertions will make it so. They don’t. Also, I think his
    closing message was heavy on code to the Tea Party. I thought he was trying to
    sound like a reincarnation of
    Goldwater-x-Reagan.

    The so-called undecideds
    are kind of a joke. My sense is they are people who don’t like Obama but are
    undecided about why they feel that way, or are uncertain about how to express
    the way they feel in a way that will not be perceived negatively by their
    friends who support Obama or will cause them to be embraced by anti-Obamaites
    with whom they have almost nothing in common.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

    summery of last night: Mitt Romney lied all through the debate. And Obama let him.

  • J__o__h__n

    It was the real Romney only as proof that he will say anything to get elected.  The real Romney isn’t a moderate. 

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/HEWE6BY7YYSNPALXNSXUWKBCJA S. C-ya

    Romney simply lied and was dihonest through the whole night! He said he is not going to lower rates for high income people, but of course …he is! 
    Why and how his constant lies and exagerations are not immediately shot down by members of the press is beyond me! Romney is a walking and talking contradiction which is why he will never be able to speak honestly about policy.
    All he can do is attack the president and blame him for all of the countries problems.
    He has proven himself to be misleading and unreliable on every major issue in this and previous campaigns. Republicans have done NOTHING to help this country out of our economic situation and they blame this president for all of our problems.

  • Michiganjf

    … And CNN, get rid of the idiot-o-meter and show a full-body view of BOTH candidates!!!
     
    Body language of the debaters is more important than what 10 STILL UNDECIDED morons think in your back closet!!!!

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

       I agree. It was pathetic.

      But it showed me how deranged Romney looked throughout the whole thing and how out of it Obama looked.

  • http://www.facebook.com/anita.paul.5680 Anita Paul

    What is different in Romney’s platform than the last 30 years since Reagan.  Cut taxes on the rich.  Deregulate business. Build up the military.  When has that ever worked. 

    • Government_Banking_Serf

      What baloney. So what has worked? The Clinton era mirage of Alan Greenspan’s treasonously low interest rates that fueled the greatest speculative bubble since the Great Depression? Was that mirage you want to bring us back to?

      What dreamland do you live in? What do you folks really want and expect? You really do think that there is a magic pile of money we can access whenever we want, or that if we just took enough away from the “evil rich people” we could then have everything we ever wished for?

  • skeptic150

    What is somewhat troubling to me is people appear to give more significance to these debates than is probably warranted. These men have platforms and opinions that have been clearly spelled out prior to the debates and will be elaborated upon after the debates. How they interact with each other on a stage is, in essence, just a show.
    Good debaters are just that – good debaters. Being a good debater does not necessarily equate to being a good President.

  • Thinkin5

    One debate isn’t going to erase months, years of seeing Romney be Romney. We know who he is and one sales pitch isn’t going to change that. The Pres. didn’t bring his best game but we know that he has one. His policies are the right ones. Mitt’s trickle down; We got the down but not the trickle! ( as Al Sharpton said)

  • Casey Reyner

    Yeah this was the real Mitt.  He spouted lies, and made statements contrary to his previous positions just as he always has.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Name one position he changed.

      I follow his campaign closely and I didn’t hear anything new.

      • Thinkin5

         Mitt now says that he won’t cut education, won’t cut taxes on the rich, would hire more teachers, etc. Recently his said the opposite. “We don’t need more teachers!”

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          On taxes he has been saying he would cut the tax burdon on the rich from the beginning.  Obama and Axelrod have been going around lying about that for months.

          Be careful WHERE you get your information.

  • Yar

    Look folks, it is like this, a debate is a one lane bridge.  Mitt Romney and Barrack Obama meet at the middle and Romney yells I never back up for idiots.  As Barrack steps aside he says, I always do.  The event is past and Obama’s integrity remains intact. And Mitt Romney has to explain why he has a different position than what he has run on the past 7 years.  He was for cutting taxes on the job creators, until last night when he said he will not cut taxes on the wealthy.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

      You know he didn’t mean that.

      He paid a 14% tax rate in 2010. He’s says he’s going to cut taxes across the board by 20%.

      We are going to be paying Romney and his rich friends.

      (Not like we don’t already but soon it will be even more)

    • http://www.facebook.com/beth.nicol Beth Nicol

      My sense exactly. I kept listening to Mr. Romney and hearing in many cases the exact opposite of what I have heard during the campaign mixed with denials of things I have heard him say. On style and energy, yes he was the better of the 2. On content and integrity I’ll take Mr. Obama. On the arguments where Mr. Romney stayed consistent, many seemed to be developed from outright incorrect information. So, please, Mr. President, I know you find it hard to comprehend that people will actually fall for much of the Republican (especially T-party leaning) rhetoric, but they do, and you simply must step up to the plate willing to swing.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    I can understand not knowing which of the two–the Republicrat or the Democan–to vote for, since both of the two major corruptions fail to represent more than narrow special interests.  What I don’t get is why Americans can’t see the alternatives.

  • JGC

    I am afraid Obama’s only anniversary present last night was a big bouquet of pointy-toed butt kicks from Michelle…I am definitely sending a case of Vitameatavegamin to the White House to help Barack prepare for Debate#2 on October 16.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

    People,

    Romney and Obama were standing there telling you you are going to pay for the rich and the debt that was run up to benefit them.

    So who won? Not the middle class and the poor.

    No matter who is elected they are coming after Social Security and Medicare and the rich are not going to pay more in taxes.

  • AB_in_GA

    Good morning. I have to say that I really liked Romney’s performance. His arguments were great, many, if not most, better than the president’s. However, a lot of Romney’s suggestions seem to be relatively new. They seem to be different than what he was saying in the primary debates? For example, in the primaries he made the assertion over and over that he was very conservative. Yesterday he taunted his ability to be moderate and work with Massachusetts’ Democrats. (And you have to be a very moderate Republican to do that in MA.) Is he becoming a presidential candidate for all Americans? Or is he going to change (flip-flop) again once he gets into the White House? Romney seemed to have “won” the last debate but it also gave me the uneasy feeling of Romney being just out for the job, saying whatever it takes to get it.

    • JGC

      And you would be correct.

  • 4jebsgirl

    Susanna in Lunenburg MA -I think Obama won.  He was level headed and concise.  Romney was like a used car sales man, rapid eye blinking, creepy smiles….
    Also, no one has mentioned how Romney mentioned multiple times how much he would value choices in health care….HELLO??  Does he not understand how very ANTI choice his party is???

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       I guess the Dems ARE against choice.

      But not all of them.  Senator Ron Wyden is a liberal Senator from Oregon and is a co-sponsor of Medicare reform.

  • SeaLyons

    As a woman, I found Romney to be too aggressive. I was really put off by his condescending tone and the way he kept speaking over the moderator. It seemed just on the edge of disrespectful–to both Obama and Jim Lehrer.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Axelrod realized that he just wasted $150M in negative ads.

    Romney, unfiltered, isn’t the monster Axelrod painted him.
     

    • StilllHere

      He’s going to have to spend another $150M to convince America that English is his guy’s first language. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/leonard.bast.90 Leonard Bast

    The media is agitated and excited (listen to how fast and excitedly Tom is talking today on the show) because the appearance of a horse race is to the media’s advantage for the next month. Romney as another Reagan? Based on one debate? Good grief. Can you say “wild exaggeration?”

  • wandahendrix

    Looking better in a debate does not a trustworthy President make.  So Romney rehearsed, had a massage and a manicure, and was well rested.  President Obama has been kind of busy dealing with running the country in the midst of a world in turmoil.

  • skiboat

    Romney didn’t say anything new that would make me want to vote for him.  Just because he was agressive and interrupted frequently, that doesn’t make me want to vote for him.  I don’t trust him.  If I were a 1%er, he would be my guy.  I think Obama missed making a couple points.  One debate does not settle an election. 

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    To caller Bonita, is there any way that you’d think Romney won?

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    I’m glad Romney called Obama on Simpson-Bowles.

    • J__o__h__n

      Why did Romney pick Paul Ryan who voted against it?

      • WorriedfortheCountry

        Do we have to go through that again?

        Romney made the point.  Obama could have done what Ryan did — offer his own version of SB and get it through congress.  Obama never tried in his first term but he says he wants to do it in a second term.

        Sorry, it doesn’t work that way.

  • Ellen Dibble

    States taking the lead on reforming health insurance.  As I recall, Obama did say that fishing for insurance across state lines still leaves lots of room for the profit motive to cut out the oldest or sickest or neediest, and he also pointed out that the states can run into trouble, one more than another, for reasons of massive economic displacements or weather catastrophes and even plain mismanagement.  Romney said in case of dire need of course the federal government would help out.  It seems to me that’s like inviting states to go into bankruptcy, and then the Federal government goes into disaster mode, and like a bankruptcy, the person or state in question doesn’t get to vote about what happens.  You have to depend on the mercy of the father figure.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    I’m tired of hearing these talking heads telling me what I can’t understand when I’m watching the debates.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

      They are all like that.

      This charade of a presidential election in this country provides a lot of work for the stupid talking heads.

      No offense stupid talking heads I know it’s a job that China or India hasn’t taken yet.

  • afromoburg

    Want to have a quiet dinner Tom?  Is it my imagination or did Turkey just shell Syria and request an emergency NATO meeting?  Perhaps as Gail Collins pointed out in her column and I have heard on the show, he didn’t want to be there.  HE has responsibilities Mr. Romney does not.

  • Lily Sullivan

    How do you suggest the president debate someone who lies and changes his position on almost every issue discussed? President Obama may not have been aggressive enough during the debate last night, but he has something that Mitt Romney never will-Integrity.

  • tconner57

    As a Pres. Obama supporter I am dismayed by his lack of fire and willingness to call Gov. Romney on his mis statements of the Presidents record.  Ultimately I hope this is a wake up call for the President who I feel has been running thinking he can win by simply having Romney losing. Now the President is going to need to WIN rather than NOT LOSE. 

  • MrNutso

    Good point caller on the differences.  That is what the entire debate boiled down to, we disagree on our vision and direction for the county.  Lehrer even pointed it out at the conclusion of several segments.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/BSQCL636RT2GLSXYOBIS7NO53I a

    As on reporter mentioned last night, Obama is a professor, and Romney is a businessman. He was right. The twain should never meet. Not in a debate that requires stats and selling.
    My problem is that few people understand just how Romney made his money, and how a leveraged buy-out works. Rolling Stone has a great article by Matt Tiabbi, and there’s another piece on line on how Romney’s moves, and leveraged buyouts helped raise healthcare costs by buying out companies like Duane Reade.Leveraged buyouts are evil…and that’s how Romney made his money…by firing by stealing (legally), by seeing vendors not paid but banks paid, business closed, benefits lost. It’s all a disgrace and the media, in general, including NPR, have made no attempt to get to the core of George Romney. He hasn’t a clue what it’s like to either a middle class or a poor person.

  • http://www.facebook.com/anita.paul.5680 Anita Paul

    Reagan blew up the deficit.  He raised taxes. Why do people and the media continue with the whole Reagan myth.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

       Like the old Soviet Union they have a vested interest in rewriting history.

  • DrewInGeorgia

    Jack said “the fund-raiders” a couple minutes in. Freudian Slip?

    The quote from Obama that was played twice earlier in the show was of course one in which The President had a slight hesitation. Play it again Sam!

    Caller Bill is a moderate? Please…

    And a second “independent” on the phone, channeling Reagan?

    Glad to see everyone has their pom poms out.

    Yes Obama should have called him out. Yes Romney managed to avoid putting his foot in it. No this will not determine the outcome of the election. I felt bad for the moderator, talk about being in a tough position.

  • Ellen Dibble

    I do think people actually in power have their hands tied more now due to Citizens United and the power of lobbies and the power of money in Party politics.  We pray that our leader can transcend that, but how?  How?  We are in a new era in terms of what our leaders can do.  They have to answer to Big Money as well as voters who are semi-deluded into voting this way or that.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       There was no money or negative ads on the stage last night. [even though Obama has been outspending Romney 2 to 1 on negative ads]

      On the stage were two men for all to see.  That’s all.

  • MidwestMaryKay

    AMEN! Style (Romney) over substance (Obama). If our American herd of sheep are willing to vote for the superficial and let the cover of Vogue magazine run our country . . . we’ll all see (and live) the downfall of this great country.

  • IsaacWalton

    Thank you caller. My sentiments exactly. Romney came off as as spoiled kid trying to lecture a calm adult. The American people like a fight and that’s why the ’round’ is being called win for Romney.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

    Presidential debates are just more eloquent form of professional wrestlers trying to one-up each other when they are interviewed togther. It’s all posturing. The only real winners are the media. They get something dumped in the their lap for practically free that they can spend endless airtime going over. And over. And over.

  • Michiganjf

    If President Obama loses the election, it will be traced back to last night, when he should have and could have EASILY closed the deal!!!!

    Team Obama didn’t want the Presdient to compromise his “likeability” advantage, while Americans wanted the President to confirm why it is THEY DON”Y LIKE MITT ROMNEY, Romney’s lies, and Romney’s willingness to throw 95% of Americans under the wheels of hisand his buddies’ Rolls Royces!

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Notice how Jim Lehrer bailed out Obama during the tax discussion.

    Obama was bumbling an answer and Lehrer interrupted Obama and said  “Mr. President don’t you mean x, y and z’
     

    • StilllHere

      You wonder if it isn’t how this guy has gotten this far.  Low expectations and even lower standards. 

  • pamino

    My impression of the debate seems to be in the minority.  I thought the President was relaxed, confident and absolutely in command of the facts.  Romney, although less frenzied than usual, seemed hyperactive and, yes, programmed and over-practiced.

  • bsorcs

    In my view, the President would have fared far better had he read, and had with him, the piece from the 01 September Economist.  They, no strong suporter of the President, nailed it.
    http://www.economist.com/node/21561909/print

  • alexdino

    Are we really going to let Romney get away with bringing up death panels again without calling out how blatantly false and craven that was?

  • BBoomer03

    I believe that both candidates did very well, but none of them really focus on the reality “HOW TO FIX THE CURRENT ECONOMIC CRISIS’. It’s not about to get aggressive or defensive it is about how to give American people a solution.
    Romney said “I have my own plan” Okay what’s your plan!!! Bla bla bla. I don’t trust in any of them the reality is that I have to leave day by day and figure out how to meet my needs.

  • tconner57

    As a supporter of President Obama, I was dismayed by his lack of fire and couldn’t believe that he allowed Gov. Romney to mis-represent his record and policies without challenging it.  Hopefully this will be a wakeup call for the President.  He needs to actually work to WIN this election rather than winning because Gov. Romney loses. 

  • StilllHere

    As an American, I was embarrassed for my country last night due to the lame performance of our president, the supposed leader of the free world.  He lied, obscured, hung his head in shame, struggled to make a cogent point, became testy when he didn’t get to have his way, gestured insultingly, and all-around made a complete fool of himself.  This is the best America can do?  This is the guy who’s hitting the reset button all over the world and caving in to foreign interests.  Even the puppet Medvedev has more free will.  You could tell Obama did not want to be there and instead would have preferred sitting at home watching “Homeland.”  Pathetic.

    • pamino

      Obviously you are not a fan of the President and are looking for flaws .  Your comment is extreme and I would have to label it as troll-speak.

  • Naomi_in_VT

    Obama was thrown off balance by Romney’s denial of his intention to cut taxes for the wealthy stance. He’d probably rehearsed rebuttal lines and suddenly Romney was disavowing his own plan. I wonder if Romney intends to create entirely new positions for each debate to keep Obama guessing? Obama needs to be prepared to tie him to specific statements.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Naomi, that isn’t new.  Romney has always been saying that he wasn’t lowering the burden on the weathly.

      I think Obama got bad advise from his team and didn’t research the issue himself.

  • Heidi Mahoney

    I can’t stomach the fact that a debate can reset the campaign. Do we want a tv personality that looks like an aging Ken doll, his pomp and arrogance cannot and should not be forgotten. Does are president have to be a showman? Don’t we want a president with a real plan, with real integrity, and with real life experience. Obama is are only real chance at moving forward.

  • BBoomer03

    I believe that both candidates did ok, but neither one really focus on the reality “HOW TO FIX THE CURRENT ECONOMIC CRISIS’. It’s not about to get aggressive or defensive it is about how to give American people a solution.
    Romney said “I have my own plan” Okay what’s your plan!!! Bla bla bla. I don’t trust in any of them the reality is that I have to leave day by day and figure out how to meet my needs.
     

  • JGC

    Hey caller, how is Romney’s health care plan being successful in one state only a good thing? You said Romney kept circling back to the notion that his plan is made only for one state, and that is why Obamacare is bad for the country. What kind of health care plan do the people of  North Dakota deserve? Or of Mississippi? or Maine?  Do they deserve near 100% coverage of residents like in Massachusetts? Or something tailor-made to be less than that on a state-by-state basis? 

    • gonkers

      The problem with state-based solutions is poor states tend to have poorly funded programs… be they educational or health care… UNLESS there’s a redistribution of wealth from the richer states.

      So will our Right wing friends suddenly be for socialistic redistribution of wealth in the name of Federalism????

      Of COURSE they will!!!

  • donniethebrasco

    Poor Mr. President.  #poormrpresident

  • http://www.facebook.com/mike.klinefelter Mike Klinefelter

    Romney lied:
    When he claimed that “pre-existing conditions are covered under my plan.” They’re not.When he said that President Obama had “cut Medicare by $716 billion to pay for Obamacare.” Obama didn’t.When he denied proposing a $5 trillion tax cut. He did.When he said President Obama had “added almost as much to the federal debt as all the prior presidents combined.” Not even close.When he resurrected “death panels.” That was called ”one of the biggest whoppers of the night.”When he stated that half the green energy companies given stimulus funds had failed. Onlyif three out of nearly three dozen is half.

  • alexdino

    Also, “we are a nation that believes we are all created by the same God” -Romney  Is this really what we are as a nation?

  • http://www.facebook.com/harry.teasley Harry Teasley

    It’s hard hearing the press give Romney credit for details and his “five point plan”. Plan? 12 million jobs? Energy independence? Those are goals, not a plan. Why Obama didn’t smack him down with that, I don’t know. If you can’t tell a mean from an end, you have no business being in charge of anything.

  • Government_Banking_Serf

    At least Obama’s numbers have been adding up, right Gail?

    What’s the debt now?

  • Ellen Dibble

    I thought “power” is about money nowadays, not government.  If the privileged people want to say power is bad, they have to define it as let the corporations have one vote each, max.  The populism of Andrew Jackson and FDR being the other streak, the idea that privilege is the ogre, not power, then Jack Beatty says Romney personifies that.  Privilege plus power and money — awesome.

  • manganbr

    Style, yes, but substance from Romney? 

    I still have no idea what his tax plan is, or how the math adds up. He seemed to completely throw out the tax plan he’s been running on up to this point. But he couldn’t explain how he would get enough revenue from closing loopholes to make up for tax cuts and increased military spending. He never really answered it!

    His claim about medicare cuts is patently misleading. 

    And his healthcare policy is: Massachusetts has a great plan. Every state could imitate it (but they probably won’t, so Mississippi, you’re still screwed). 

  • Thinkin5

    I loved Stephen Colbert’s description of the Mitt/Ryan plan. A big black limo with dark windows pulls up and just says, “Get in!” “No time to explain where we’re going.” Exactly what the GOP is offering.

    • Government_Banking_Serf

      “Yes We Can”

      “You’ll have to pass it to learn what’s in it”

      etc etc

      • Thinkin5

         They should read the bills! Very simple, just do it. That’s their job.

    • StilllHere

      As opposed to we’ll-find-out-what’s-in-it-after-we-pass-it Democrats.

  • Nate Baum

    I’m disappointed in Obama for his performance. I feel that since the 70′s this country’s political compass has swung fairly hard to the right. If liberal / progressives / democrats are going to let themselves be pushed around like Obama, I feel did last night during the debate, then I don’t know how will we stifle this shift despite how much inequity and opportunity we have in America. 

  • donniethebrasco

    I’m so glad Obama wiped the floor with Romney.  He got Romney to say that he would cut PBS, so Lehrer got behind Obama and helped him win.

  • Heidi Mahoney

    I can’t stomach the fact that a debate can reset the campaign. Do we want a tv personality that looks like an aging Ken doll, his pomp and arrogance cannot and should not be forgotten. Does are president have to be a showman? Don’t we want a president with a real plan, with real integrity, and with real life experience. Obama is our only real chance at moving forward.

  • donniethebrasco

    Obama wins!
     

  • DFPeltier

    Mitt won the debate because he knows America loves winners. He was willing to abandon everything he stood for in the primary debates because he knew the right wing will follow a winner even if he flips positions, lies, or just doesn’t answer the question asked. Short term victory, long term–lack of integrity.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Don’t worry, caller.  Little if anything in government ever gets cut.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Don’t worry, caller.  Little if anything in government ever gets cut.

  • bsorcs

    In my view, the President would have been better prepared had he simply read the 01 September piece in the Economist.  This newspaper, not particularly a supporter of the President and his policies, seems to have nailed it.  Unfortunately for the President, his prep staff did not.
    http://www.economist.com/node/21561909/print

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

    Here’s what the Right heard last night from Romney:

    I’m going to lower your taxes and lower the debt.

    Here’s what the Right heard last night from Obama:

    I’m going to raise your taxes and raise the debt.

    No way Romney is going to do that but hey, the Right will vote for him because that’s what he said.

  • donniethebrasco

     Obama wins!

  • gonkers

    Here’s the argument I WISH Obama had made:

    Romney is pretending that economic growth alone will magically create revenue booms even at lower tax rates. It’s the same Orwellian Right rubbish peddled in 1981 and 2001. It’s the Big Lie that never dies.

    There’s another half of the so-called Laffer Curve that the Orwellian Right sweeps under the rug. It’s the prediction that even with GOOD economic growth, if tax rates are too LOW,  those low rates will FAIL to capture much revenue. We saw this in the Bush years where in inflation-corrected dollars total revenues did not exceed Clinton’s last year until 2006 and then barely. During the Bush years total revenues were LOWER for 6 of his 8 years.

    Just looking at ON-budget revenues in constant dollars they only finally exceeded Clinton’s last year for ONE year: 2007… and amounted to a mere $70 billion.

    If one just looks at income tax revenues, in inflation-corrected dollars Bush’s revenues NEVER exceeded Clinton’s last year… EVER

    Now I’m sure many of our right wing friends will claim FALLING revenue is proof of a supply side revenue boom… but then some people will believe black = white and war = peace.

  • dziadzi83

    How can we call this a debate?  It was just a forum for the candidates to state their prepared sound bites.  Why doesn’t the moderator keep them on track – force them to answer a question and call them on lies, mistruths and twists of facts?  Even the questions Lehr posed where just a means for the candidates to make whatever statements they wanted.  What a sham!!!

  • donniethebrasco

    Obama looks extremely presidential and Romney couldn’t respond to Obama’s accusations.

  • Government_Banking_Serf

    “Middle Class Entitlement State”

    What truth!

    And do you bleeding hearts realize that your purported care for the truly needy is sabotaged by your Utopian pursuit of a vast Nanny State that guarantees us all every comfort we can wish for from some magic pot?

  • donniethebrasco

    Has Obama taken his morning after pill yet?

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

       He doesn’t have to, this was all planned.

  • wandahawkins

    Romney impressed me – which surprised me!  The thing that scares me is seeing Mitch McConnell and hearing his words…making this Presidnet a ‘one term’ President is our main concern !! 
    Also I keep seeing the very conservatives, etc. trying to reverse – or prevent – women’s rights !! 

  • afromoburg

    So you think he wants a quiet, romantic dinner Tom?  I have several times this morning heard President Obama looked like he didn’t want to be there.  Is it my imagination or did Turkey just shell Syria and call an emergency NATO meeting?   I haven’t heard that mentioned.   Mr. Romney is not responsible for the US response to actions which may led to war involving all the NATO powers.   President Obama is and may have been torn to where he should be.

  • Bruce94

    Given his infamous 47% comment, Romney needed to demonstrate in the first debate that he could “feel our pain,” not just inflict it.  In addition, he needed to articulate a consistent alternative to Obama’s vision for improving the economic prospects of all Americans.

    If one of his priorities was to show empathy for the vast middle-class and working poor, I’d say he lacked credibility.  Clearly, the 47% gaffe was just the most recent and possibly most egregious example of this opportunistic chameleon’s cynical indifference verging on contempt toward ordinary people struggling in a tough economy.  One passable debate performance does not erase the cumulative effects of all of Etcha’s other fumbles and stumbles including:  “Let Detroit [the auto industry] go bankrupt…Don’t stop the foreclosure process, let it run its course and hit bottom…I like being able to fire people…I’m not concerned about the very poor…The answer [to illegal immigration] is self-deportation…I think it’s fine to talk about [wealth distribution] in quiet rooms and tax policy and the like…Corporations are people, my friend.”

    In spite of Romney’s posturing last night, the public is unlikely to forget the above litany of bogus assertions that culminated in the 47% statement–a statement that simply confirmed what many independents have sensed and Obama’s campaign has charged from the outset, namely, that Romney is a dysfunctional plutocrat unfit for the Presidency because he is incapable of offering a coherent vision that unites the country and appeals to the best in our character.  Last night Romney ranted a lot, but posited nothing new that would change this assessment.

    Moreover, the problem that many now see with elevating a political chameleon to the highest office is that the voters can’t determine what he really stands for or against as Obama correctly pointed out during the debate.  Judging from his campaign and VP choice, however, it does seem that Romney is only too comfortable pandering to the national chauvinism, religious orthodoxy and phobic racism of Tea Party extremists.  Hence, is it not reasonable to expect that a Romney/Ryan admin. would instigate not only more “wars” on women, but also more attacks on labor, ethnic and racial minorities, and gays by Right-wing ideologues bent on reversing nearly a century of progress securing equal rights and on obstructing any Federal effort to remedy social or economic injustice?

    And when they are not too busy rolling back the New Deal reforms that re-defined our social contract and saved our economic system in the Depression era, is it not reasonable to conclude from what we heard last night that a Romney/Ryan team would not rest until even more tax relief for the wealthy and deregulation for Wall St. are a fait accompli, not to mention increased military spending and Neo-Con adventurism abroad?

    In short, the only vision that Romney seems capable of mustering to date is a desire to restore a yearned-for (or imaginary) older order that erroneously identifies the American Dream with hyper individualism, rabid consumerism and unregulated, rapacious capitalism.  Hopefully, that will not be a vision that most Americans are willing to sign off on Nov. 6.

  • Dori_TalkNation1

    Doesn’t lying count? What about deception about your own style as a “businessman” and religious man? What about the facts? Your “winner” (I completely disagree, those eyes of Romney staring into the light with what could only be called fear in them) as he lied. I actually think this was a major disaster for the American people first, but Romney and Ryan will also have to back up what the candidate said last night. Romney is unfit for the White House based just on his failure to tell the truth about his policies and how they will impact seniors and others on Medicare. But his feigned ignorance of the problems within the various branches of government was nauseating. The White House and regulatory agencies seeking to protect people, are up against an obstructionist Congress. Clearly it was Romney’s VP Ryan who led the charge to block bills that might have helped to resolve problems for America’s 99%, the Middle Class and the poor. Also, please see this crucial Democracy Now episode. Amy Goodman featured an interview with reporter Ryan Grim about his Huffington Post shocker: “Mitt Romney Started Bain Capital with Money from Families Tied to Death Squads.” Romney got start up money for his business by accepting funds from foreign families with major ties to El Salvador’s death squads. And those ties continue. http://www.democracynow.org/2012/8/10/romneys_death_squad_ties_bain_launched

  • K8te

    My take on Obama’s subdued performance: it’s in keeping with his governing style throughout these past four years. He knows he can’t act angry because there are folks who get scared easily by an angry black man. I applaud him for keeping his cool when Mr. Romney (who came across as a rich know-it-all frat boy) let his lies and vague “ideas” fly…

  • donniethebrasco

    What happened?  Is Lehrer racist?

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Lehrer was helping Obama.

      He even fed Obama a line at one point when Obama was fumbling and he interrupted Romney every time he was exposing a Obama fraud.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

    How is Romney going to create 12 million jobs?

    Notice he didn’t say in America.

    • gonkers

      Are we to be impressed with just 12 million?

      30 years ago Reagan promised 13 million!!! We got about 8.4 million.

      Promises are cheap.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Here is why Obama lost.  The first part of the debate centered around Romney’s plan to reform the tax code and grow the economy.

    The problem for Obama is he’s been believing the lies Axelrod and he’s advisers have been telling him about Romney’s plan instead of actually researching the plan himself.

    The tell was when Obama said ‘you come in with a NEW plan 5 weeks before the election’

    There was NOTHING new.  This is EXACTLY what Romney has been talking about all along.

    Apparently, Obama believes the lies he’s been fed and then parroting on the campaign trail for the last two months.

    Obama then realized he was caught and that put him off his game for the rest of the debate.

    • jimino

      Can you identify even ONE of the loopholes that Romney’s so-called “plan” proposes be closed, without which it makes no sense whatsoever?  Just ONE?

  • Stephen706

    What a complete round by round win by Romney???

  • donniethebrasco

    Don’t confuse me with facts.  Obama looked incredible winning the debate last night.

    The only problem is that Lehrer is racist.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       Lehrer is racist?  Huh?

      • donniethebrasco

         Isn’t that what is said whenever Obama looks bad?

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

           Ah, sarcasm.

          • J__o__h__n

            It is easier to identify when it is witty.

  • TinaWrites

    The MOST galling part for the President must have been when Romney said that HE would work both sides of the aisle!!!  The President tried that over and over, to his detriment and ours, until he finally had to do a few things almost unilaterally (children brought to the U.S. by their parents, for one).  Many liberals have even been angry with the President for “caving in” when he worked across the aisle.  And yet, I thought that Romney was extraordinarily CONDESCENDING in his tone about this, as if President Obama had never even THOUGHT about working with Republicans as well as with Democrats.  

    The President said that he was willing to take good ideas from anywhere, so long as they filled the agenda of helping to strengthen the middle class.  But Romney never backed down. Also, it was appalling for Romney to BRAG that HE would work both sides of the aisle when it is common knowledge that the Republicans REFUSED to cooperate with President Obama, to the point of PURE OBSTRUCTIONISM that I thought almost qualified as mal-practice of Republican responsibility to work on the problems of the nation.

    • William

       Bob Woodward said Obama would not work with the Republicans. Obama only wants to strengthen the middle class and nobody else matters? What about the poor? What about business owners? These groups don’t count? Republicans are not going to sign onto Obama’s failed plans so of course they disagree. Obama needs to work with people not just tell them ‘I won” or call them “hostage takers”. That is not how business is done in Washington.

  • Government_Banking_Serf

    Well it is fun to participate in the political football in the old D-R horserace, but even when its easy to see Obama’s shortfalls, of course GOP Romney is no reformer or critic of the elite power structure.

    Alas, we’ll have to wait another 4 years to get the truly reformist and reality based ideas that folks like Ron Paul bring, by following the money all the way up to the corrupt Central Bankers and Economic Technocrats that work hand in glove with Wall St Frat brothers to cook up bubbles that provide politicians a chance to show “Growth”, while ultimately lining their own pockets and saddling the masses with debt and inflation.

    • J__o__h__n

      The voters have spoken over and over again in rejecting Ron Paul’s libertarian utopia.

      • donniethebrasco

         They reject Ron Paul, the man.

        • Government_Banking_Serf

          Baby, bathwater…

          Cut off nose, spite face….

          Whatever, we’ve been doing it and are paying.

      • Government_Banking_Serf

        maybe, and then they wonder why they end up with same stinking pile cycle after cycle after cycle, with the Bankers and their Political Defenders stronger by the day.

        Too big to Fail. Not tackling that is unconscionable to anybody giving lip service to justice, fairness, liberty or self governance.  

        Of course I guess if you don’t care about that stuff, its easy to ignore Too big to Fail.

        Mitt was actually right when he said you need regulation for the market to work. If you can’t sincerely accept the idea that he thinks the Dodd Frank regulations were not the best way to do it, then you are being paranoid (even if he ultimately does not have the best solution, which I doubt).

        Of course I would have loved to hear them go on for an hour on Banking Regulation and Too Big to Fail, to see where that would all settle, but those ideas are wayyyyyy to radical for a prime-time D-R debate.
        .

      • Steve__T

        No the media rejected RP before he even got started, they wouldn’t even say his name or show his picture.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=720759923 SallyMaria Renata

    Is issue that frightens me most is states rights vs. government standards.  I live in SC.  We have a gov. who seems to be running amuck not even telling her constituents what she’s doing.  By the time you learn, it’s done.   What will happen to education, infrastructure,  health care, etc. in states like ours??  Will we have a polite civil war by having to move to a compatible state?

    And Jim Laher is just unable to moderate a debate.  He lost control and Romney arrogantly ran all over him.

  • MrNutso

    Except Mittens, cutting taxes has never lead to grow anywhere close enough to cover the loss in revenue.

    • donniethebrasco

       There is a difference between cutting tax rates and cutting government revenues.

      • MrNutso

        I don’t know if that’s true or not.  The arguments that tax cutters make are that cutting taxes results in increased economic growth which will increase revenue.

        • donniethebrasco

           Its not just about growth, it is also about letting people pay for personal expenses through the companies books.  A company can lease a Porsche and the owner can use it with pretax dollars.

  • Stephen706

    We saw a CEO last night do what a CEO does. Romney looked all the part of being a leader and not a frickin’ weanie politician!!! Awesome performance…

    Love how everybody the media is trying to spin the performances… 

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

      I watched the debate live and then watched it later with the sound off.

       Romney looked deranged.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

      It’s basically what Reagan did – he acted like the best President ever. Being an actor really helped.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Think progress?  God help us.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

       Yeah, better hurry over to Beitbart or Beck to get the real truth.

  • AC

    no matter who’s health care plan goes through, it’s clear that people with ‘chronic conditions’ will be the next pariah’s on society…..this makes me sad and bitter at the same time

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

      That’s what the elite want.

      People who are old or sick to not get care.

      Believe it.

      • AC

        true, but even if Obamacare covers us, it will still be a ‘stigma’ (like being on a type of welfare-forever) & i already see the shift to people talking about ‘preventative’ measures to not burden the health care cost everyone will be on together. Just like people ‘ogles’ obese people drinking milkshakes, or people in those little moto push cart things….
        Some diseases are only ‘manageable’ and remain expensive to manage for life – no one asks for this. Cancer is high risk, but at least for those that are cured it’s ‘over’. Not all diseases are controllable….

        I trully think sick people will end up being persecuted at some point. Perhaps we’ll go back to leaving children born with disabilities in the woods for the fairies to take……

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

           Just like everything else people point at others who need care and call them moochers.

          But when they need care it’s because they DESERVE IT.

          • AC

            well, some percentage really are just ‘moochers’. there’s always a couple in the bunch, but your sentiment overall is right i think….

  • Ellen Dibble

    Gail Collins is right about “you sort of wanted that punch right there,” and I’m thinking if you multiply me times many millions, you probably have all these counterarguments being actually directed at the TV set, with great vigor.

  • MadMarkTheCodeWarrior

    In what universe do insurance companies give you real choice when it counts? Romney painted a picture of insurance offering us choice not afforded to us by some secret, evil government board. There are countless victims of insurance companies doin this to their customers. It happens every day. And in what universe will insurance companies deliver healthcare more efficiently than Medicare/Medicaid with 2-3% overhead? 

    Romney’s math will bankrupt America in no time, but not to worry, the wealthy will be fine with their offshore investments and Swiss bank accounts. Sacrifices will have to be made… they’ll have to move all of their operations overseas including their offices, homes and vacation homes.

  • donniethebrasco

    Will Obama rise on the 3rd day?

    • JGC

      At least by the third debate.

  • Government_Banking_Serf

    So why did Obama ignore the Blue Ribbon Truth?

    Doesn’t fit the Social Democratic European model.

  • sportygirl0912

    Example of Romney’s lies – he took full credit for the success of Massachusetts school which were stellar before he came in and are still stellar. He had nothing to do with it but took full credit anyway

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Schools improved under Romney  because he pushed for reforms and he had to push for these reforms AGAINST resistance for the teachers unions.

      • sportygirl0912

        School rankings did NOT improve under Romney. Get your facts straight. Oh right. Facts don’t matter to Republicans. And really??? You are going to beat up on teachers now? Just plain ugly.

  • Thinkin5

    I love the way Mitt says that taxing the rich won’t bring in much money.
    “Romney again avoided any specifics on his cuts. Oh, Big Bird and P.B.S., sure, but that’s like saying you’ll tear down a house by chipping a single flake of paint from the garage. Obama didn’t press for specifics. Another missed opportunity.”

    • TomK_in_Boston

      Standard talking point. Total annual income is $14 trillion and the 1% have over 20% of that (!), so a 10% hike = about $300 billion/year. a nice start on fixing the deficit they’re so deeply, deeply concerned about when they’re cutting everything that helps the rest of us.

  • TomK_in_Boston

    I’d guess the Dem strategists wanted Obama to appear “presidential” and play it safe, but it looks like a terrible move to me. No mention of Bane, of the 47%, of the extreme comments from the primaries. No calling him out on a total Etchasketch. No mention of how we’re already in an ultra-low tax environment, and when does it stop? More cozying up to the disastrous Simpson-Bowles and the deficit bogeyman. It looked like he was more interested in finding common ground with Lord R than with attacking him. Yuck. 

  • sportygirl0912

    Example of Romney’s lies – he took full credit for the excellent school system in MA that was excellent for decades before he came and are still excellent but again, he took full credit for the success.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

       Well, he built it, right?

    • Davesix6

      Incorrect, Romney took credit for working together with the democrats in Mass to create the best school system in the Country.

      Another great example of Romney’s leadership skills and Obama’s lack thereof.

      • Thinkin5

        Ever notice how when both sides work together and compromise, the Repcons take credit for it? Always the narcissists point of view. All the TeaCons refuse to “give Obama a legislative victory” but it’s Obama who won’t “work with them”. Too much!

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        The Mass Dems weren’t WATBs throwing tantrums. You can’t see the difference between a lege who cares for actual governance, can you?

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       nice try sportygirl but Romney did put in reforms that IMPROVED MA schools and were adopted by other states after our success.

      But nice try.

      • sportygirl0912

        I SAID – it was a stellar school system before he came in and continues to be so and that Romney canNOT take credit for the school systems being great. I DID NOT say Romney did nothing to support an already great system.  Don’t twist my words like Romney twists Obama’s. 

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           No, you implied he was passive.  Wrong.

          He expanded charter schools and MCAS and against massive resistance.  HIS reforms have been used by many other states.

          But nice try.

          • sportygirl0912

            Look moron. I said the schools were great when he came in. And the schools are still great. He can’t take credit for improvement. Pay attention. It’s interesting whenever anyone posts a response to you that contains facts you respond with some flip aggressive denial of the facts. Excellent Republican, you are.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

    That’s so funny Eugene.

    How is Romney putting 23 million people back to work?

    Silence.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      The only way possible other than a world war — grow the economy.

      You’re welcome.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

        Reality check.

        The whole world is in a deflation.

        And the whole world has a long, long way down to go.

        The America economy will not be growing for years and years.

        In other words, Romney lies.

    • TomK_in_Boston

      He has nothing to say but the same voodoo econ we’ve been hearing since 1980: tax cuts and deregulation. Hasn’t worked yet and we’ve got some of the lowest taxes at the top since 1929 and we’ve taken the depression-era regulations off wall st, but all that means is we need even more tax cuts and deregulation to “grow the economy and create jobs”. 

      Is anyone really that dumb….?

      • TinaWrites

        Sadly, yes.

  • Thinkin5

    Tweet by:Bill Maher ‏@billmaher
    this is the Romney i’ve been waiting for – the windsock of a man who now is suddenly for the low income folks and no tax cuts for rich
    Bill Maher ‏@billmaher
    “clean coal” is not something that exists. Its like “cold fire”

    Bill Maher ‏@billmaher
    ok, this drives me nuts when Mitt says healthcare works at state level but not federal – do people get sick differently by state? NO!!!
     

    • Davesix6

      Wow, your’e quoting Bill Maher. Clearly desperate.

    • TinaWrites

      And, as I always say, were we live, if you lost your job, you could easily go across state lines to look there.  If you lived in the N.W. part of our state, you could look for work in RI, MA, CT — all with different plans?  It’s bad enough for a teacher I know who worked in MA and retired to RI.  She has to go to doctors in MA because her private retirement health insurance won’t cover her in RI!  THAT is nuts!  THAT is lack of choice (most other claims about lack of choice are just Repub shenanigans).

  • MrNutso

    That’s right caller.  If you lie about what you are going to do, people may actually like you.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

       There’s no doubt there was NO TRUTH TOLD last night.

      After all, this is an American presidential race.

  • Mike_Davies

    John Meecham said the next few years will be ones of painful adjustment to SO. Sec., Medicare particularly, and the rest of the budget. The rich and powerful will have their advocates there 24/7 plying congress members with the usual incentives. Who will represent the interests of the common people, the 99%? The professor or the millionaire? I vote for Obama, like TR and FDR, the advocate for the people.

    • Government_Banking_Serf

      Then why can’t he simply outline a specific plan of action to do that? 

      He unfortunately is too beholden to all the financial vampires that he has to get in bed with to “govern” in today’s America.

      He can’t afford to offend them with straight talk to the people about what he would do.

      That was Clintons problem too.

      That is the insanity of Dems getting into bed with Wall St money.

      That is why reform will never come from either party that sucks up to Wall St, and will only come from people who threaten the ruling elite, and that is those like Ron Paul types who are critical of our Monetary Policy and unsound money and use of debt to create the illusion of growth and prosperity.

      Sadly, maybe that is too complicated for most people, and we really can’t handle the truth, and should not be surprised with where we are and will go.

      • TinaWrites

        I admit I don’t listen to Ron Paul about his monetary policy issues, etc., so my liking of your post will just “skip” that part.  Altho it IS true:  Repubs keep talking about how “prosperous” we were during the Reagan years; yet, what I remember from that time was that EVERYTHING was being sold via credit cards.  I think that it’s been a long time now, and what people remember is what they HAD, what they DID that was fun; NOT what DEBT they were building up and living under! 

        Sadly, I absolutely agree with you about the “insanity of Dems getting into bed with Wall St. money”!  It was also insane that when we started trading with China that we didn’t insist that they get out of Tibet and stay out.  We keep not using a moral compass when there is room to do so, and then we wind up under the runaway juggernaut, be it a financial one or a political one (even tho those two categories are often joined, especially if clear boundaries were not crafted during the moral compass phase).  

    • TinaWrites

      Did you see one of the really recent Bill Moyers’ PBS shows about ALEC?  I’d heard the term, but had no idea what ALEC was all about until this show.  The show explained a lot of the “coincidences” that seem to be happening from state to state.  Under current law, ALEC does not have to register as a lobbying group, and yet it is comprised of corporate lobbyists working together with state law makers to craft legislation which is then presented to the state as if it came purely from the state legislator.  Meanwhile, because ALEC is not considered a lobbying group, the public has no means of finding out the identity of the corporate lobbyists who worked on the bill.  THis is why so many bills seem to pop up from one state to another.  The bills are crafted already; any ALEC  legislator just pulls the one that would serve the really big purposes of ALEC as a whole and makes sure it gets passed in his/her state.  The legislator MAY seem to compromise with other legislators in his/her state to change the exact nature of the bill, but basically that is a front to make it appear that the bill arose as if from his head a la some Greek god.  

  • TinaWrites

    President Obama seems incapable of punching back, unless it is thru writing.  I suspect there is something really deep in his childhood that prevents him from even defending himself, and, sadly, from defending his policies, and thus the policy ideas of all of us on the left.  

    I was awkwardly tall — FAR taller than the other kids — until the Eighth grade.  Meanwhile, my parents told us not to ever pick on anyone smaller than we were.  I became the gentle giant who couldn’t even punch back when the little brats were yelling nasty things at me about what I looked like, or even when they were kicking me in the shins just for what my hair looked like.  I never told my parents, so they couldn’t correct my interpretation of their message, and so their admonitions stuck, and I was stuck with no real ability to defend myself.  I would just sort of “watch” the bullying happen.  I really suspect that the President has something similar in his background.  It’s just a psychological hunch of mine.  

    I can punch back on these pages, but that is because it’s thru writing, and even then, it has taken me years to learn that it is okay for me to defend myself and/or my points of view; altho, I’m also always ready to stand corrected.  I think that the President is definitely there:  ready to stand corrected; and THAT is NOT a good debating position.  

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    The last person that you’d want in the White House is someone with a god complex?  The caller just disqualified the vast majority of candidates for the office.

  • Thinkin5

    Tweet by Bill Maher ‏@billmaher
    this is the Romney i’ve been waiting for – the windsock of a man who now is suddenly for the low income folks and no tax cuts for rich

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

      Why is Bill Maher saying Romney said no tax cuts for the rich?

      Romney said last night he’s going to cut taxes by 20% for everyone. He didn’t say that excluded the rich.

      And, he’s cutting corporate taxes which is hilarious considering 2/3s of all corporations in this country PAY NO TAXES.

      • Thinkin5

         Romney is playing a word game. Doesn’t call the tax cuts, tax cuts. Calls it “lowering the tax rate”. Thinks that semantics will fool people.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

    How the hell is Romney going to get incomes up again.

    It’s fantasy talk.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Greg, we can do better — much better — than the course we are on now.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

        You don’t seem to get it.

        The elite want incomes in this country to go down and go down substantially.

        Why? They are invested in the global work force and for them American incomes are WAY TOO HIGH and MUST BE BROUGHT DOWN.

        Romney is in up to his neck in this way of doing business.

        How do you think he made his fortune?

        Every dollar in his fortune was made taking from a worker’s salary or pension.

    • gonkers

      The economy can’t be lukewarm forever. The nation even pulled out of the Reagan Recession where unemployment was over 7% for SIXTY MONTHS. Most of the hard work repairing the damage Bush did has been done. Whoever takes over next year will benefit from that.

      • TinaWrites

        But robotics are getting even more widespread in their use.  The experts say that that is good for productivity and bad for employment (except in the design and engineering end).  That’s ANOTHER point that Obama could have made:  we need to educate students in STEM (I prefer STEAM:  adding Art — and Design) just to stay on the right side of robotics!!  

        • TinaWrites

          Sadly, I meant to add that robotics are the largely unspoken reason why the economy MAY indeed stay “lukewarm for forever”.  The ONLY thing to do about this is to try to get the design and engineering components of robotics to be America’s strong suit, and that means strong schools.  The subjects that teach these areas are known as STEM, as we know.  The president of RI School of Design wants that to be known as STEAM, adding Art and Design (as I said somewhere, above).  That IS essential, because the sense of form and continual interface with creativity that art and design expose us to will only HELP AND BOLSTER our work in the STEM subjects, in school and later in the workplace, and maybe even in the civic space!!!! 

      • TinaWrites

        I read one politifact type piece that said that Romney’s bragging about the 12 million jobs he will create is really just his referring to the expectant number of jobs that would be created even without political intervention.  I’m sorry:  I did NOT explain that well enough, because I don’t really remember how it was phrased, but it was a VERY important point.  Maybe interested listeners will try to find the real version of what I’m trying to say!!!   Sorry!

  • donniethebrasco

     How are we going to save the earth if Romney becomes president?

    • hypocracy1

      Earth?  Moon Base Baby!

      • DrewInGeorgia

        Newt needs to get on that and the RyanMe Crew needs to be on the first flight out.

    • TinaWrites

      What you point out is HUGE!!!!!

      • DrewInGeorgia

        You misread the comment Tina which is entirely understandable. It was meant to imply that the Earth doesn’t need saving and that The President is a moron for thinking it does. Just seemed like you might have missed the snark, it’s not hard to do when there’s no humor behind it.

    • StilllHere

      Maybe Democrats will make good on their promise to leave the country.  That may be enough to change the rotational axis of the planet and counteracting the globalwarming effects of the current axis.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

    People so ignore facts – look at where we were 4 years ago and now. The calls that Obama wrecked the economy, that he did nothing to improve it, just completely ignore where we were and the direction and speed we were heading.

    I’d like to see Obama ask Romney how much his finances were hurt over the past 2 years – his tax returns say otherwise.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       The recession ended in June 2009 — before any Obama action had time to kick in, including the $900B stimulus.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

        And the Dow is up like over 6k points since then? Not bad considering the world economy is doing less than well right now.

        Blame him for doing the wrong things – blame him for not doing enough. But don’t blame him for wrecking an economy which under current circumstances is doing pretty well.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           Obama let an opportunity go to waste.  He could have used the crisis to reform government and fix the bloat.  He left the bloat and then added two huge bureaucracies:  Dodd-Frank and Obamacare.

          That is why the fragile economy isn’t getting better.

      • StilllHere

        This is what $900B gets you?  All I’ve noticed is upgraded limos for the president.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           Where is Obama’s Hoover Dam?  Exactly.

          We got Solyndra instead.

        • Thinkin5

           Tax cuts included in the Stimulus. The Repcons don’t like to mention that.

        • DrewInGeorgia

          900 Billion? Ya’ll just love throwing an extra zero in there every now and then. Since the facts don’t matter I guess decimal places should be inconsequential as well. Oh wait, you’re talking about the Bank Handout that was baked in the cake prior to Obama taking office. I thought when I first read Still Worried’s posts they were in reference to the $90 Billion invested in energy. My bad.

    • TinaWrites

      I wish the President had said what you did and just that clearly!

  • TinaWrites

    The way that Romney bullied the totally ineffective moderator was SO disrespectful!  He didn’t “take the bull by the horns”, he over-stepped HIS role, assuming HE had the RIGHT to do the moderation.  Jim Lehrer just wimped out, ridiculously!!

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Lehrer interrupted Obama when he was stumbling to give him a line.  Did you like that one?

      • TinaWrites

        Missed it.

  • donniethebrasco

    They are shortening this segment as much as they can.  No reason to have an open discussion about last night’s debate when the winner is going to cut funding for NPR.

    • J__o__h__n

      Even liberal Jack and Gail conceded Romney performed better than Obama did.  Once again the facts aren’t fitting the paranoid right wing fantasy of NPR.  Gail didn’t even mention Mitt’s dog on the roof of the car.

    • StilllHere

      Let’s just talk about “Homeland” and forget last night’s unpleasantness.  Hey, who watched Mythbusters last night, wasn’t it great?

  • J__o__h__n

    Tom should host a debate.  He can interrupt the candidates instead and keep it moving to more than one topic.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       I know.  Obama kept spouting answers that weren’t related to the topic.  He must have had some memorized lines he was trying to get in.

      • StilllHere

        I believe four word phrases is his limit.  “Yes we can” and “You didn’t build that.”

        • Thinkin5

           Mitt: I’m for the middle class!! We help the poor in the emergency room!

        • Steve__T

           Learn to count!

    • Thinkin5

       Chris Matthews should be the next moderator. He can shout down Mittens and make him answer the question. No rope a dope moves by Mittens.

      • WorriedfortheCountry

         You’d have to clean Matthews pants.

      • OnPointComments

        Michelle Obama would be a less biased moderator than Chris Matthews, that is, assuming that Chris wasn’t rendered speechless by the tingles going down his leg.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

          That same Matthews is still fetishing over Mitt’s shoulders (land a 737 on them) and getting all splooshy about the whiff of cigar smoke and cologne Fred Thompson gives off (through the TV, somehow).

    • StilllHere

      Heck, Tom would answer the questions for Obama, that would be less painful to watch.

    • TinaWrites

      Excellent idea!!

  • StilllHere

    Obama seems to have taken a 4 year vacation.  The guy was completely unprepared for last night.  It was pathetic.  He didn’t have a fact to stand on.  He stammered incessantly as he tried to come up with something in his losing effort to regain some standing but to no avail.

    Today’s higher jobless claims numbers are another condemnation of this failed presidency. 

  • DrewInGeorgia

    “Easy to promise but hard to deliver” Tom said.

    That should be Romney’s Campaign slogan, it’d be nice to see a little Truth In Advertising .

    • donniethebrasco

      I know, Obama made so many promises.  He couldn’t even get immigration reform passed, even though both parties were motivated to do something.

      He also turned his back on Simpson-Bowles (or Bowles-Simpson).

  • dpeel

    A sociologist might point out that as far as the views of Americans on the debate in polls, people who were able to watch the debate might represent a skewed sample of American voters. I didn’t watch the debates because I’m a nurse and I work shift work, as do a lot of lower income service people, who just weren’t home. Also, even if I had been home I couldn’t have watched the debate because I don’t have TV, like just about all my liberal friends here in Vermont. We just don’t watch it. Sort of like when they took that disastrous poll a long time ago from among people in the telephone book–not a random sample.

  • eastcoastfarmer

    No mention that Massachusetts did not gain jobs under Romney.
    That US lost 740,000 jobs a month under the GOP.  That the rise in people on medicaid and food stamps happened after  the global financial class  created by  deregulation which Romney et al favor. Job losses have slowed down dramatically under Obama. He needs to make the case.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       MA had FULL employment when Romney left office.  4.7% unemployment rate.

      Further, on job growth MA was 50th when he came in and when he left the state was 22nd.

      • Thinkin5

         People left the state to go find work.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

        Please Mayor Manino did everything to create jobs in Massachusetts. he went beyond Boston in creating jobs in Massachusetts. Menino attracted a lot investors in Boston and the Suburbs. Governor Romney did was the to cut budgets of every towns in Massachusetts the reason the unemployment rate went up when he left. 

      • TinaWrites

        The current Mass. governor had nothing good to say about Romney’s time as governor.  I heard him at the DNC but also on a local Mass. PBS show.  He was very clear and detailed in his dismissal of Romney.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/DX3XE4RGFCXAGFIKQ5JGCED2OQ Qing

    Mitt Says that he will lower the tax rate but also reduce the deductions and exemptions. If I calculate this correctly, the richer you are, the more tax deduction you get with his tax policy while the middle class, especially on the lower income side will end up paying more tax because deductions and exemptions take a bigger portion on the lower income than higher income families. 

    • TinaWrites

      R. Giuliani was a Republican guest on Rachel Maddow last night.  He was THRILLED with the idea of the elimination of deductions and exemptions (like mortgage interest, etc.).  He went on to say that after those were all eliminated, he couldn’t wait for a Flat Tax where everyone was taxed at one rate.  THAT also hurts lower income people the most, because that flat rate comes out of their limited income, whereas the tax is just like the cost of a cup of coffee to the wealthy.  I wouldn’t be surprised if Giuliani’s POV were the accepted next level for ALL Republicans.  They sign pledges and think in lock step, and then, I now understand, there is ALEC behind it all. 
      I wonder if eliminating the mortgage interest deduction would make it easier for foreign investors to buy our real estate?  Just a far-flung question; but the Repubs ARE acting globally, not nationally; their allegiance is to making more and more money, not to America, the nation.  They manipulate the laws of our “democracy” to make things go their way under the tenets of Capitalism more than under the tenets of Democracy.  They are not interested that our democratic nation has other interests, as well, that must be considered and/or even protected.  

      • keltcrusader

        Republicans really long for the days that they “owned” and Democrats ‘rented”. Removing the mortgage deduction is key to keeping the middle class from buying homes and having to rent instead. I recently heard a talk Romney gave in Nevada where he said to not stop the home foreclosures, to let them continue until they hit bottom and then let investors buy the proporties and start renting to all the folks who were foreclosed on. And we wonder why banks delay or refuse mortgage modifications to go through, they already know who is in line to buy the homes and rent them out to those who left them.

        • TinaWrites

          Oh my goodness (actually BADness!)  In other words, IT’S ANOTHER WAY OF ‘OPENING UP ANOTHER MARKET’!!!  Just like the Repubs want to “PRIVATIZE” everything, getting rid of all the well-administered governmental programs (and they DO exist!), the Repubs want to eliminate those programs and jobs so that BUSINESS can SWOOP IN and take ownership (didn’t Geo Bush say that the U.S. was “an ownership society”?  perhaps THIS is how far he was willing to push it!); charge fees and service charges; and charge enough extra to make both profits and huge salaries and bonuses and perks for the business CEO’s (having complained about the benefits of federal public service employees, no less!!!  And, all the while “claiming that “competition” will keep prices down!  When?  After ADDED-ON profits?!!!).  

          IF there are too many governmental programs that repeat one another, could it be that that repetition is really necessary to fill all the needs that the various programs need to fill?  If not, if there is excessive repetition, why don’t the politicians get together and figure out how to streamline the programs so that they can efficiently fill their mandates, yet not waste money.  Isn’t THAT the responsible thing to do?  Reinventing the wheel to open up their own markets owned by Republicans is really acting like vultures, rather than fulfilling their civic responsibility as they sit as our Congressmen/women and/or Senators!  Political vultures = Malpractice! Now, you’re pointing out that they will do that with HOUSING, too!  They will turn HOUSING into a BUSINESS for corporate profit and benefit (as if it does not already have several components to it where that is true.  But, they want to squeeze every single ounce of profit-making juice out of the concept of “housing”!!  AND, individual citizens may NEVER be able to finally say that they “own” their own home!!!)I swear it’s this ONE IDEA that underlies All Things Republican:  TURN EVERYTHING INTO A MARKET; incapacitate the public’s ability to DO FOR ITSELF thru the public service employees system, or thru ownership of anything their own, so that people are forced to utilize the services of the corporations to the very last squeeze!You are SO RIGHT about this!  We thought they just “hated unions”, when, in fact, they want to OWN EVERYTHING!  Thank you for making this clear!  I’m depressed.

  • MrNutso

    I think Jonathan Chait summed it up pretty good:

    “Romney won the debate in no small part because he adopted a policy of simply lying about his policies. Probably the best way to understand Obama’s listless performance is that he was prepared to debate the claims Romney has been making for the entire campaign, and Romney switched up and started making different and utterly bogus ones. Obama, perhaps, was not prepared for that, and he certainly didn’t think quickly enough on his feet to adjust to it.”

    http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/10/romneys-successful-debate-plan-lying.html

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Name the lie.

      • MrNutso

        How about my plan covers those with pre-existing conditions.

        • TinaWrites

          As someone with a really big pre-existing condition, I say THANK YOU!!!

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

        Romney has proposed 5 trillion in tax cuts.

        Over and over and over.

        Let’s start with that one.

        The 721 billion that Paul Ryan’s budget cuts from Medicare but doesn’t move to Medicaid like Obama does.

        Ryan give’s the 721 billion taken from Medicare to the rich in tax cuts.

        That the 2 trillion dollars he wants to add to the military is needed. Who the hell is he kidding? We are drowning in debt from the outrageous amount of the military budget now.

        That he won’t add to the debt. That’s the biggest lie of all.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=507593666 Josh DeYoung

         ”First of all, I don’t have a $5 trillion tax cut. I don’t have a tax cut
        of a scale that you’re talking about. My view is that we ought to
        provide tax relief to people in the middle class.”

        If you add up all the Tax cuts He has proposed they come very close to $5T.

        And the “Number four, get to us a balanced budget.” That he wants to accomplish means closing the loopholes of Tax deductions for the middle class (even thou he wont come out and say that) there is no other way. So the tax relief to the middle class is also a lie after they lose the loopholes like mortgage interest deductions and family member deductions.

        “At the same time, gasoline prices have doubled under the president.” 

        In may of 2008 Gas prices topped $3.80 and they are currently around $3.80
        http://gasbuddy.com/gb_retail_price_chart.aspx

        “But I’m not going to reduce the share of taxes paid by high-income people.”

        That is an absolute LIE based on stated tax cuts he has called for.

        “The Romney plan would reduce the six current income tax rates by one-fifth, bringing the top rate down from 35 percent to 28 percent.”

        “Gov. Romney would also permanently repeal the 0.9 percent tax on wages
        and the 3.8 percent tax on investment income of high-income individual
        taxpayers that were imposed by the 2010 health reform legislation and
        are scheduled to take effect in 2013.”

        http://taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/romney-plan.cfm

        and so on and so on …..

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           Wow.  Pretty pathetic.  Where did you cut and paste this from.

          Let’s just take one.

          “At the same time, gasoline prices have doubled under the president.” 

          Then you compare it to May 2008?

          Obama became President in January of 2009.  Gasbuddy has the price of gas at $1.84/gal in Jan of 2009.

          Yes, gas has more than doubled under Obama.

          • StilllHere

            May 08, that’s just funny!  Josh pulled an Obama.  Lies and obfuscation!  Good sheep!

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=507593666 Josh DeYoung

             are you suggesting that May of 2008 did not happen and that the price was not at that level then. Did you look at the graph? you can see a clear and crazy dip in the avg price that quickly corrected itself.

          • Steve__T

            Look at the chart? LOL heck no, just take WFC twist on anything. 

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=507593666 Josh DeYoung

            so there were unrealistic gas price of one month in ’09 and you Expected them to stay that way? supply and demand have you heard of it?

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=507593666 Josh DeYoung

             I wrote it myself thank you very much

        • TinaWrites

          Add:  that Obama took $716 billion out of Medicare

          Great list, congratulations!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000410583550 Jessica Aupperlee

    I was disappointed with Obama’s performance.  I feel that he should have called Romney out on his mistruths and explained the numbers more effectively.  Both of them frequently went off topic and did not let the moderator do his job.  Even to someone who knows the issues and the numbers it was a mess! 

  • TinaWrites

    For those citizens who have barely been paying attention, the President did NOT help frame his side of the argument, including even some of the most fundamental differences with  Republican ideas:  most specifically what PRIVATIZATION would do to every aspect of American life!  We have seen many clear answers to this on these OnPoint pages for several years now!  All he had to do was read some of the wonderful comments that listeners have made here to make his point!

    The biggest trouble is that when he failed to make HIS argument clear, he failed to make the Left’s point clear!!!!  He failed us, perhaps tragically!  The ramifications could descend upon us for many decades.  Of course, one of the most important ones is Supreme Court appointments.  He should have had a list.  It didn’t even seem like he had a simple LIST of what is most meaningful for the Left and what is most threatening to our democracy if the Right wins.  Didn’t he even have a LIST????!!

  • eastcoastfarmer

    This presidency has slowed the loss of jobs by about 200,000 a month – And that has been in the face of cuts by Conservative governors and mayors in public sector jobs – for a 3 yr 10 month period matchup for first term president obama vs bush, its 1.6 m jobs lost vs 2.4 million under bush

  • TinaWrites

    I will say, if you listen to the debate again, the President seems to do somewhat better.  Somewhat.  

    • DFPeltier

      If you listen to the debate on the radio the pres wins hands down…..but the debate was televised

      • Government_Banking_Serf

        not to mention, debates are silly!

      • TinaWrites

        I was just wondering if the substance of policies was better spelled out in the Radio Days (maybe the shows were not debates, but just politicians speaking to the people), when I saw your post!  Good to know!

    • StilllHere

      If you read the transcript and ignore the president’s umms and ahhs and uncomfortably long pauses, he just comes off as a guy who doesn’t know what he’s talking about. 

      • OnPointComments

        Thomas Sowell has it right:  “The role of a confidence man is not to convince skeptics, but to help the gullible believe what they want to believe.  Most of what Barack Obama says sounds very persuasive if you don’t know the facts — and often sounds like sheer nonsense if you do.  But he is not trying to convince skeptics, nor worried about looking ridiculous to informed people who won’t vote for him anyway.”

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    I can’t wait until Obama has to defend skipping 68% of his security briefings this year so he could campaign and attend fund raisers.

    Even the lowly Bush didn’t skip those when he was running for re-election.

    • MrNutso

      Do you plan to publish the official calendar that shows the date and time of all security briefings, and the sign in sheet showing that the President did not attend?

      • WorriedfortheCountry

         The WaPO had a detailed article — with White House confirmation – of Obama’s schedule based on FOIA releases.

        The Obama response — he reads them on his Ipad on the days he skips.

        Imagine going to the Dr. and saying:  Dr. just give the x-rays and take them home and read them later.

        The interactive exchange with the experts is critical.  It is amazing Obama skips it.

        • gonkers

           Yup… here in the 21st century NO technology exists to communicate except person to person speech.

        • StilllHere

          Judging by last night, there’s not much exchange going on when Obama talks to people who know what they’re talking about.  He’s more comfortable with one-way communication so his incompetence isn’t revealed so easily.

    • Thinkin5

       Bush, who ignored the warnings of the threats by Osama Bin Laden leading up to 9/11. Condi: yes, we did receive warnings.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

       Bush didn’t skip his security briefs that we know of.

      He just didn’t do anything about them.

      Bush let the 9/11 attack happen.

      I don’t think you should hold up Bush as someone to emulate.

    • hypocracy1

      That was possibly the only time he wasn’t on vacation..

  • gonkers

    Here’s the answer I WISH Obama had made on the role of government.

    What is a killer idea worth in an impoverished 3ed or 4th world nation without the necessary infrastructure to exploit that idea?

    What infrastructure? How about a nation secure from invasion provided by our military? How about law enforcement provided by various federal, state, and local agencies? How about a literate and educated workforce? A legal system that allows for the existence of limited liability corporations, intellectual patent rights, and contract law? A judicial system to oversee such laws? What about stable monetary and banking systems from which to get credit? What about a system to insure public health… from clean water to vaccination
    programs? What of publicly financed basic research?

    The Constitution has several key goals… one of which is the Common Defense but also to promote and provide for the General Welfare.

    When run well, the public and private sectors bootstrap each other to higher and higher levels of prosperity. It’s this mutual interdependence that is the tide that raises all boats.

    This is ALSO the moral basis for a strongly progressive tax code. Perhaps the income tax should be renamed the Opportunity Tax.

  • StilllHere

    Bill Maher tweets, this is the highest and best use of the internet?

    Have we run out of dancing cat videos?

    • Thinkin5

       Maher sees that Mitt has no clothes.

  • joni32

    Thank you, Tom, your shows keep getting better every day.  All your guests were right on with their comments, especially Mr Meacham.

  • TinaWrites

    Romney’s “delivery” will have incredible sway.  In so many elections, including the one for President, we wind up with the situation where the U.S. might be headed by individuals just because they “styled their delivery” the right way.  Meanwhile, in this case, the implications of Romney’s policies go barely examined by far too many people.  Many of the pundits do NOT help on this matter; the tables of pundits on TV — all stations — talk more about strategy and polling and advantage, rather than about THE RAMIFICATIONS OF POLICIES!  We are so blessed to have the right to vote, and yet we also have money and lobbying and now ALEC corrupting the process and we have this tendency to want to vote for someone who styles themselves to “look like someone who is Presidential and who now also looks like they will create jobs when they get in office because they looked like they really meant it and really had the chops to do so when they went before us”.  Geeeeeeesh!!!

    • RobertLongView

      How did Rove get that Reagan-esque in WMR’s head?  He even had that Reagan head-tilt that i thot made RR look goofy.  Throw a bunch of false facts out to keep the media (liberal) busy while the Faux News talking Heads spin, baby spin.  Pure Rove — he’s back…  .

      • TinaWrites

        And, the next day, some female reporter on NBC Evening News summed up the evening, saying that “Romney was in control of the facts”…….!!!!  

        AS IF they WERE facts!  How does NBC drop the ball like that?  Can’t THEY lose their license?  FOX may play around with shows that are NOT scheduled during true News hours (to the nation’s GREAT disadvantage), but NBC E.N. is a news show during a designated news hour.  Yikes!  I thought Brian Williams was on the liberal side….

        BTW, do you know the name of the Republican policy operative who may have preceded Rove by maybe a decade.  He was scrawnier than Rove, enjoyed being toasted and roasted for the service he did for “his” party, figuring out lots of the tricks that Rove later used or expanded upon.  He died, however, ignored and neglected by the very people he helped achieve great power.  There was a PBS special about him about 5 years ago.  I was not very politically savvy when this man was operating, but I’m sure other people are well aware of him.  I’ve been searching for his name, but I can’t get close enough even for Google’s help.  I turn to the brilliant listeners of OnPoint for help!  Thanks!  

        • RobertLongView

          Republican Lee Atwater from SC, per chance?  died early on of brain cancer.  a modern day Political Machivellian.  The movie “Mr Smith goes to Washington” is a Sentimental fairy tale — just ask Obama… . 

          • TinaWrites

            Yes!!!  Thank you SO very much!!!  I must study more about his Machivellian ways (great term, on your part!), because I fear that a lot of his ways still underlie the Republican modus operandi.  I only saw the documentary once, so I need to learn more.  Thank you!!

  • KenDavis54

    The only thing Romney proved to me is his willingness to say anything to win votes. He lied, he streched the truth, he distorted facts…all of this with the intent to deceive the American public into beleiving that his policies will not significantly degrade thequality of life for most Americans. Today the fact checkers have overwhelmingly confirmed that Romney is deceptive and does not respect the truth or the people to whom he lies…we the people.

  • donniethebrasco

    Poor Mr. President #poormrpresident

  • donniethebrasco

    Mitt, you didn’t build Bain, we all did.

    • RobertLongView

      Did you get your dividend check from Bain?  Guess you’re not in the 1% club, eh.  You can always wait for the second LBO to get yours.  Or how about, as last resort, maybe an IPO stock option?  I’m sure WMR won’t forget the little folks ’cause he told me so on the Campaign Trail.  

  • Lauren Braden

    The things I learned from Romney last night are: 

    He likes a lot of things (he said so many times), but is very willing to cut things that he likes and that are perfectly good if it means not “borrowing from China.” Like Big Bird. OK. But what else? We don’t know because he didn’t say. Scary, huh? Could be your social security, your education, your highway repairs, your national parks. He didn’t say. The only thing we know he WON’T cut is defense. 

    Romney has no intention of putting forth energy policies that will slow global climate change. Clearly off the table. Did you like that drought this summer? There will be many more. That’s the deficit we are passing on to future generations, folks. And that one will soon be irreversible.

    He has met people on the campaign trail who might have to give up their health care because their costs are going up. Gee, ya think?  This has been the case for me and everyone I know for at least the past 10 years! Many have already given up insurance. He reported this as if it were a new finding of his. Out of touch.

    The things I learned from Obama last night are:

    Dude, you need to get some sleep before the next debate.

    • agavegirl

      Not to worry Lauren.  As Romney said, we won’t let you die of a heart attack in your apartment, we will rush you to ER to get care.  Firstly, he assumes people without insurance all live in an apartment and secondly, he is yammering on about providing care to the uninsured in the ER, the cadillac of healthcare in terms of cost.  I really really hope he does not get elected.  Yesterday I lost count of how much he mentioned the middle class.   He sure did not mention the middle class in that videotape where he pontificated about the 47% of the American populace are a bunch of free-loading moochers.  

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Gail Collins and Jack were questioning Romney’s facts but they made no mention of Obama’s lies and deceit.

    He had at least 8 whoppers.

    So much for fair and balanced.

    • StilllHere

      That’s not how Tom rolls. 

    • gonkers

       If all your looking for is validation for your extreme right wing views… perhaps you’d prefer to post at foxnation.com

      • StilllHere

        That explains so much about your motivation for being here. 

        Ok guys, we’re disturbing gonk’s echo-chamber of Obama sheep.  You have been warned.

        • gonkers

          I’m here BECAUSE I LIKE ON POINT!!!! I’ve been listening to NPR news programming since 1973 when I discovered All Things Considered.

          The BIGGER question is if you don’t like the show or NPR generally WHY ARE YOU HERE?????

          • DrewInGeorgia

            Spreading The Disease.

  • gonkers

    Here’s another point I WISH Obama had made:

    Between 1981 and 2008 the rich, corporations, and Wall St. got just about EVERYTHING they wanted… tax cuts for the already rich, big reductions on capital gains taxes, free trade deals to
    exploit cheap and slave labor overseas, corporate welfare, two wars they refused to pay for, deregulation of banks, mass media, and commodities. The Right sabotaged
    government revenue with irresponsible tax cuts and sabotaged the industrial base of America with free trade. They encouraged us to place our life savings in the hands of
    sociopathic predators on Wall Street whose greed and hubris was so great they didn’t just bring down their own banks, they brought down our entire economy… almost the world’s.

    SO WHERE THE HELL IS THAT RIGHT WING NIRVANA???

    The Right has learned NOTHING from the disaster their ideas created. They have shown NO remorse or second thoughts about what happened. All they want is to do it all over again… only this time on steroids.

    • donniethebrasco

       Maybe you can get Hillary to run against Romney.  Obama obviously doesn’t want to run or defend his record.

    • ExcellentNews

        Where is the right wing Nirvana??? You obviously have not flown on the corporate jet, vacationed on the owner private island, or sailed the CEO yacht with a model…

      • gonkers

        Yes, as I’ve written in other forums… the only Right Wing Nirvana IS for the rich.

      • TomK_in_Boston

        It’s the USA, privileged white boy paradise.

        • StilllHere

          Blame everyone else for your sorry plight.  I hope it makes you feel better.

          • TomK_in_Boston

            I’m one of them, you doofus. It would be pretty bizarre to “blame everyone” for my good fortune.  At least I recognize it. Maybe when you grow up you’ll be able to go beyond parroting talking points.

          • Steve__T

             LOL not gonna happen

      • AC

        o you don’t need a corporations for that – just read “The Orphan Master’s Son.”
        it’s fiction so likely some of it may not be true, but wow-can absolute power corrupt absolutely!!!!

    • TomK_in_Boston

      Exactly. And why don’t all the discussions of tax cuts and deregulation start with the recognition that we are already in an ultra low tax and regulation environment. Geez, tax cuts made sense when the top rate was over 90%, to listen to them it’s no different when romney types are paying 13%.

      • gonkers

         Here’s a repost from below on the topic of taxes:

        Here’s the argument I WISH Obama had made:

        Romney is pretending that economic growth alone will magically create revenue booms even at lower tax rates. It’s the same Orwellian Right rubbish peddled in 1981 and 2001. It’s the Big Lie that never dies.

        There’s another half of the so-called Laffer Curve that the Orwellian Right sweeps under the rug. It’s the prediction that even with GOOD economic growth, if tax rates are too LOW,  those low rates will FAIL to capture much revenue. We saw this in the Bush years where in inflation-corrected dollars total revenues did not exceed Clinton’s last year until 2006 and then barely. During the Bush years total revenues were LOWER for 6 of his 8 years.

        Just looking at ON-budget revenues in constant dollars they only finally exceeded Clinton’s last year for ONE year: 2007… and amounted to a mere $70 billion.

        If one just looks at income tax revenues, in inflation-corrected dollars Bush’s revenues NEVER exceeded Clinton’s last year… EVER

        Now I’m sure many of our right wing friends will claim FALLING revenue is proof of a supply side revenue boom… but then some people will believe black = white and war = peace.

        • TomK_in_Boston

          Right, I say this all the time. The “Laffer curve” is a no-brainer. Obviously, 100% taxation kills the economy to produce no revenue and 0% produces no revenue, so there’s a point of maximum revenue somewhere in between. Duh.

          The problem, as you say, is that we NEVER EVER hear the possibility that we might be on the low side of that optimal point, despite 30 years of tax cutting. And, we obviously are, with oligarchs who could pay more and not even notice paying 13%.

          The right isn’t going to mention this because their real agenda is simply to grab more for the rich. So, double shame on us if we don’t say it.

  • hypocracy1

    It’s debate time… shake up the etch-a-sketch…

    • donniethebrasco

       Obama is ready for retirement.  He has already picked out a place for his library.

      • 1Brett1

        It’s just amazing that you are able to use words like “library”!

    • Davesix6

      Yep, looks like Romney has drawn himself a real shot at the White House.

  • KenDavis54

    The only thing Romney proved to me is his willingness to say anything to win votes. As he has throughout his campaign he changed his positions, he lied, he streched the truth, he distorted facts…all of this with the intent to deceive the American public into beleiving that his policies will not significantly degrade the quality of life for most Americans. Today the fact checkers have overwhelmingly confirmed that Romney is deceptive and does not respect the truth or the people to whom he lies…we the people.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

    Remember Mitt Romney balance the budget in Massachusetts but he has TO FIRE thousands of school teachers, Firemen and Police officers etc etc. if he created jobs why is unemployment rate went up again.

    Where are the jobs he created in Massachusetts?

    • Davesix6

      It’s been five years since Mitt Romney was Governor of Mass.
      The last four years are all on Obama, and Mass isn’t the only state that has lost jobs in those four years.
      That’s the point Akilez, no more excuses for Obama.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Lie.

      Last I checked teachers, firemen and police are a local municipality responsibility.

      The unemployment rate under Romney went DOWN — to 4.7%.  That is close to FULL employment.

      I think we’d take 4.7% now.  I would?  How about you?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

        So where does the Municipality get there Budgets. Tell me? From the Governor.

        It went down but it went up when he left. so where those jobs he created if he really created jobs in Massachusetts.

  • donniethebrasco

    I’d rather have a job instead of a hug.

    • 1Brett1

      looks as though you’ve had neither…

    • StilllHere

      What if your job was to give hugs and the government paid you hundreds of thousands of dollars with full benefits and a huge pension until you die?  This is Obama’s plan!

  • Gregg Smith

    Algore is blaming Obama’s dismal performance on the altitude.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       I think Algore is just high.

      LOL

    • StilllHere

      I believe Obama said he had no problem getting high in his book, but I could be wrong.

    • Davesix6

      If anyone is familiar with the effects of being too high it’s the well documented, allegedly former pot head, Little Prince Albert Gore Jr.

  • ExcellentNews

    But of course Romney won the debate. He is the CEO after all, and had months to prepare for it, with the best consultants money can buy. Obama looked beat just from doing his job day after day, just like the rest of us.

    • RobertLongView

      Bet he’d like a vacation w/ Michelle to celebrate the marriage.  How long did WMR practice that little opening line about Obama’s intimate evening debate w/ Mitt on Barack & Michelle’s anniversary?  You can’t call WMR slick but “Shameless Seamus” is so appro… .

    • donniethebrasco

       Its just so hard being President.  You’re right.

      Obama needs a hug, not homework.

      • StilllHere

        That’s also his plan to reduce unemployment.  Hugs for all! 

    • Davesix6

      Yeah Obama has been so busy doing the nations business.
      There was his summit on the View
      Meeting with world leaders like Beyonce and JayZ
      His security inspection of the Hoover Dam, etc.
      Poor guy, no wonder he looked so dazed and confused.

      • StilllHere

        Shoot, the View, I missed that, been watching nothing but Kelly lately!  Is it true he’s going to be on one of Maury’s paternity shows?

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Are the rumors true that Obama has purchased a $38M mansion in Hawaii and it ready for a January 2013 move in?

    It sure looked like it last night.

  • donniethebrasco

    Its not too late for Hillary to take Obama’s place.  #toolateforHillary

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       She has a little problem with embassy security or lack thereof right now.

  • 1Brett1

    I’m still processing the debate. I was disappointed that Obama didn’t call Romney on some of his “facts.” Obama didn’t seem comfortable, didn’t have a lot of glib answers loaded up, and seemed a bit weary. However, it is just propaganda to say it could readily be observed that he lacked confidence.

    Obama spoke for 4 minutes longer than Romney, but Romney got in more words. Romney spoke more rapidly and was slightly louder. While both men went over their time limits on responses and talked a bit over Lehrer, often not responding to  his subtle cues to stop, Romney seemed to talk over Lehrer and Obama more so than the other way around.

    If we are scoring on talking louder, more rapidly, talking over people, ignoring moderator cues, and so on, Romney won. As far as clarifying substantive information, it was a draw; both men lost, so to speak.

    Personally, I don’t want a moderator to tell men of their stature to shut up, or to talk loudly and over candidates, or to verbally bully. I also don’t want a president to have those communication qualities. 

    I can understand why neocons enjoyed Romney’s approach; they are used to watching panel discussions on Fox, for chrissake, where aggressively talking louder than each other or over each other is commonplace. 

    Romney’s problem going into the other debates is that he boxed himself in to certain positions last night and revealed that he would rather skirt other positions. All of these can be capitalized on.  

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Obama told about 8 major whoppers last night.

      Is he boxed in too?

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      Hey, didn’t that old coot who couldn’t control the debate used to be Jim Lehrer?

    • Gregg Smith

      Interesting. I guess one man’s moderator interrupted is another’s interrupting moderator. The difference between their volume and density mirrored the difference between their confidence in their respective arguments.

      Maybe it was perception but it sure seemed that way. 

  • TestyD

    Being religiously sensitive, I noticed that neither  candidate closed with “God bless America”, as I have heard in the past.  But Romney did say “We’re a nation that believes that we’re all children of the same God.”  Even if the nation does actually believe it, which is not true, I am certain that many voters do not consider themselves children of Romney’s God.  This is a gaff.  It splits Romney’s own religious supporters.  It is another unscripted and uncontrolled comment from Romney.  

    This may not be seen as a critical moment in the debate, but it is a definitive one.  When Romney moves outside of a prepared realm, he understands little about the diverse realm of belief and thought, and has very little concern for that diversity.  Still.  

    Romney did win the debate, but I don’t think it was because of any great ability on his part.  It was because Obama was not fighting.  

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Romney did talk about God when he was talking about our founding principles. 

    • RobertLongView

      I heard “moral”, Right-Wing code, thrown in by WMR — Rove is not overly religious is he — that was GWB contribution to the job?  you heard of dumb and dumber — this is the sequel… .  but the evangelicals would appear to be ready to vote for the White Horse prophecy this time around… .

      • StilllHere

        Last election we got the horse’s turd.

        • gonkers

          Watch out… Worried will accuse you of bigotry.

        • RobertLongView

          WMR: “But oh par_don me as my VP Paul would say, Annie: By jove, let them eat Horse Apples.”

  • gonkers

    Maybe Romney’s Magic Underwear has more secret powers that we’ve been led to believe!!!

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Daylight is best disinfectant for bigotry.

      • gonkers

         Daylight is best disinfectant for SUPERSTITION! 

      • gonkers

        I don’t protect from criticism some types of irrationality just because they are branded as religion. That’s not “bigotry”… it’s merely trying to be rational and reality-based.

        Try it some time.

    • StilllHere

      And Obama’s teleprompter is all-powerful!

  • StilllHere

    I get that Obama’s handlers wanted to humanize him, but making him look stupid was not necessary.  Time to vote Axelrod off the island.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Whose fault is Obama’s pathetic performance last night?

    The national media.  They haven’t asked Obama a tough question in 4 years.

    Poetic justice.

    Actually it is quite sad.

    • OnPointComments

      You’re right, it is poetic justice.  Perhaps the main stream media will learn a lesson from this debate:  when you allow your chosen candidate to go unvetted and unchallenged on virtually everything he does, from the economy to Fast & Furious to Benghazi, Libya, don’t be surprised when your sycophantic support lulls him into thinking he is immortal.

  • bsorcs

    Want an objective review of Obama’s performance?  Read this.

    http://www.economist.com/node/21561909/print

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       That isn’t a debate performance.

      Nice deflection.

      • bsorcs

        Deflection?!?  No, just a suggestion to examine some of the facts that most Americans do not have in hand.  While it is apparent that it really does not matter, I must ask.  Did you read it?  Did you understand it?

        • Steve__T

           If it aint Fox news he wont bother, and if he wants your opinion he’ll give it to you

  • Davesix6

    For the record Jim Lehrer did a good job last night.
    Of course libs are now blaming him for Obama’s dismal performance.

    • StilllHere

      And the altitude, and the lighting, and the podiums, and the mikes, and the phase of the moon, and the White Sox loss, and …

      • Davesix6

        Very true, oh and we can’t forget the lack of a teleprompter!

        • StilllHere

          It is true that Obama performed so poorly last night because there is a rumor that Homeland is going to be cancelled?

  • Michiganjf

    We can’t forget… President Obama has kept this country’s head above water, with the U.S. doing better economically than just about any advanced country in the world, despite what was left to him by Republican stupidity, and despite continuous Republican obstructionism!!!!
     
    WE NEED PRESIDENT OBAMA!!!!
     
    Romney will finish the job of destroying America which his Republican predecessors started 30 years ago… we can’t let Republicans finish America off!!!!

    • Davesix6

      President Obama has us headed in the same direction as those other “advanced” country’s as you put it that are on the verge of failing.

      That’s why, as Governor Romney put it, this nation needs to go in a “new direction”.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      The recession ended in June 2009 — before the vaunted stimulus had time to kick in.

      Trickle down government has never worked and it certainly didn’t work over the last four years.

      • gonkers

         Recession start and end dates don’t tell us much about the depth of a recession. GDP can drop 10% annualized for 4 quarters in a row and if the economy “grows” .05% for two quarters, then that recession is considered over even if the economy is still 9.90% down in economic activity.

  • TJH1974

    I am a former Massahusetts resident who voted for Mitt Romney when he ran for govenor.  As a candidate he seemed to be the perfect mix of a fiscal conservative and a social liberal who supported equal rights – especially women’s rights.  For less than half his term, he was that guy.  However, he gave up after state rep and senate elections and switched his positions drastically.

    He could have been a great govenor.  Instead, he was mediocre at best.  I don’t think the country will be as bad off with him in the white house as President Bush, but I fear the things he might do to secure a second term.  If he could wrangle the republicans and bring them more to the center, that would be one thing.  But he has clearly shown over his campaign the more extreem portions of the party have wrangled him.

    I wish there was a 3rd party contender that could balance the books in Washington like Romney and would support social issues such as gay rights and immigration reform like Obama.  Sadley, I fear this country will never find such a candidate so long as we are either a Repubican or Democrat.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Why was he a mediocre governor?

      When he came into office the State’s finances where in crisis.  There was a $3B shortfall.  All the pundits and politicians said the only way out was raising broad based taxes.

      Romney found another way.  He reformed agencies and made them more efficient.  He did raise fees but none of them were broad based so the were mostly fee for service but he ended up solving the budget problem and left office with a $2B rainy day fund.

      He did all of this without drastic cuts in service.

      As a resident of MA I felt like he was there for me –the taxpayer — looking out for me.  He didn’t engage in the usual patronage that MA politicians are famous for.

      What is not to like?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

        What is not to like? Because He is a Republican the destroyer of the American middle class.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           He’s created more middle class jobs than Obama.  Have you heard of Sports Authority or Staples?

          • keltcrusader

            Um low pay – no benefit jobs do not a middle class make

          • Steve__T

            I know you won’t read this but here are the FACTS on your hero.

             http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/greed-and-debt-the-true-story-of-mitt-romney-and-bain-capital-20120829

            He’s destroyed more jobs and companies than anyone in history!

      • TJH1974

        I felt he started strong with the only mistake was him trying to say the government fees he raised weren’t taxes.  I agreed with what he did mind you – but the spin added a little too much sour to his sweet solutions.

        He fought hard for reforms and established the “rainy day fund” – one of his signature accomplishments – and seemed to move his party more to the center.  However, after the MA GOP failed to make any gains in the state house and senate, he stopped fighting.  He then reversed himself on several social issues and devoted a ton of his attention to blocking gay marriage.  He lost focus on the state and began focusing on national issues – making largely symbolic vetoes to that were overridden.  It seemed to me this was done more to shore up his reversals to a more conservative position to better establish his credentials during the looming GOP primaries at the expense of working with the Democratic controlled legislature to better improve the state. For example: City and town budgets suffered with the cuts to local aid.  He had promised to work with mayors and community leaders to help offset the cuts with reforms – especially to help control rising pension and healthcare costs – so that cuts to education, police and fire – the meat of community government responsibilities – wouldn’t be necessary.  Instead, he assigned the Lieutenant Governor to the task and she lacked the experience and skills (on this front) to do that while he traveled to fund raisers, national GOP events, and Washington private meetings.Furthermore, his cuts lead to the under funding of transportation infrastructure which leads to the situation the state has today with the condition of its roads and bridges.  He was supposed to find ways to reform the system and use the savings to invest in maintaining and upgrading that infrastructure despite all of the Big Did fiascoes (which he inherited and did not cause).  He had a perfect opportunity to do so after Matt Amerello was ousted.  He didn’t.  He was supposed to reform the educational system – especially the state and community colleges.  Again, he had the perfect opportunity when Buldger was forced to resign in disgrace finally.  He didn’t.He did pass health care reform and worked with the legislature on that issue – no small feat.  It lead to MA being a leader in health care reform.  However, that was a huge issue going into the 2008 campaign and it seemed that was why it held his attention.  Now Obama-care was patterned after his plan – one of his greatest accomplishments in the state in my opinion – and instead of embracing it he plans to dismantle it.  Why?  Because Republicans today hate it and he wants to be elected President.  (Though why as many Republicans are opposed to it still baffles me because Romney’s plan was patterned off of the one Newt Gingrich proposed as the Republican answer to Hillary-Care).If he had shown the same attention and determination as his first two years, focused less on the gay marriage issue, remained moderate on social issues, and focused more on reforming the state’s educational and transportation systems (beyond ousting Buldger and Amerello which I was very grateful for) I am convinced he would have been able to keep his promises.  Any future Governor would have been looking at huge shoes to fill and he would have established himself as a leader that can reach across the isle to get things done and prioritize core government responsibilities over any social issues or agenda. Instead – and this is my opinion, not fact – he left the job half finished and left all this to his less qualified Lieutenant Governor while he pursued higher ambitions.  Also, when he left office the budget was billions in  shortfall again – undoing the good he did when he first took office – and to me this appeared to be a direct result of him not fighting enough to entrench his reforms and maintain public support for them.

        This is why I think he was Mediocre and didn’t live up to the potential I thought he had.  MA has certainly had worse Governors (Dukaikis comes immediately to mind), but in the end his elected Republican predecessors did better by the state than he did.

        • TJH1974

          I apologize if the reply was a bit long, but I felt your response deserved the respect of a detailed answer on why my opinions are the way they are. It was well stated and not berating.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

    We all know that the Democrats did not create the Great Recession. The Democrats are not the people who destroyed the American middle class.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       No we don’t. 

      Who signed the repeal of Glas-Steagall — Bill Clinton.

      Which party blocked reforms of FREDDIE and FANNIE to prevent liar loans?  Well it was Barny Frank, last I checked he was  democrat.

      Sure the GOP has culpability but they were not the primary cause.

      • gonkers

         Clinton foolishly bought in to several RIGHT WING IDEAS. That does NOT make them Democratic ideas.

        At least Clinton’s shown some remorse over some of those bills he signed. You NEVER see that coming from the Right… do you?

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          Apparently  you didn’t even read what I wrote.

          Try again.

          • gonkers

            I read what you wrote. It’s just more of your Orwellian Right rewrite of history to blame the BUSH CRASH on Dems. In the end it was RIGHT WING IDEAS that crashed the economy… even if some Dems bought in. Bush had EIGHT YEARS to reverse the repeal of banking deregulation. WHY DIDN’T HE DO IT? What’s next to avoid blaming the GOP? Blaming Carter for CRA?

            Try again!

          • WorriedfortheCountry

             No, I said the GOP contributed as well.

          • gonkers

             Your claim is “Sure the GOP has culpability but they were not the primary cause.”

            Pray tell just what WAS the GOP roll in the Crash?

          • gonkers

             crickets

      • gonkers

        Barney Frank had NO power in the GOP Congress. It was THE GOP who blocked these reforms. And let’s not forget that BUSH pushed Congress to OK no-downpayment subsidies and he pushed Freddie to provide loans to loan to people with bad credit histories.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          Barney Frank — chairman of the house finance committee starting January 1, 2007.

          Try again.
           

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

            As former chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, beginning in 2007, Frank was “at the center of power”.[18] Frank has been a critic of aspects of the Federal Reserve system, partnering with some Republicans in opposition to some policies.[55] Frank says that he and Republican Congressman Ron Paul “first bonded because we were both conspicuous nonworshipers at the Temple of the Fed and of the High Priest Alan Greenspan.”
            Frank has been involved in mortgage foreclosure bailout issues.[ In 2008 Frank supported passage of the American Housing Rescue & Foreclosure Prevention Act, intended to protect thousands of homeowners from foreclosure.[18] This law, H.R. 3221, is considered one of the most important and complex issues on which he worked.

            TRY AGAIN!!!

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

            Barnie working with a Republicans. Give some Republicans politicians working with the Democrats? Yes Bill Clinton already answered that.

            ZERO

          • gonkers

            The proposed reforms came up in 03-04 WHEN THE GOP RAN THAT COMMITTEE.

            YOU try again.

        • gonkers

          Bush on 6-17-02

          “And so by the year 2010, we must increase minority home owners by at least 5.5 million. In order to close the homeownership gap, we’ve got to set a big goal for America, and focus our attention and resources on that goal”

          Bush on 10-15-02:

          “Two-thirds of all Americans own their homes, yet we have a problem here in America because few than half of the Hispanics and half the African Americans own the home. That’s a homeownership gap. It’s a — it’s a gap that we’ve got to work together to close for the good of our country, for the sake of a more hopeful future. We’ve got to work to knock down the barriers that have created a homeownership gap.

          I set an ambitious goal. It’s one that I believe we can achieve. It’s a clear goal, that by the end of this decade we’ll increase the number of minority homeowners by at least 5.5 million families.”

          “Freddie Mae — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — I see the heads who are here; I want to thank you all for coming — (laughter) — have committed to provide more money for lenders. They’ve committed to help meet the shortage of capital available for minority home buyers.

          Fannie Mae recently announced a $50 million program to develop 600 homes for the Cherokee Nation in Oklahoma. Franklin, I appreciate that commitment. They also announced $12.7 million investment in a condominium project in Harlem. It’s the beginnings of a series of initiatives to help meet the goal of 5.5 million families. Franklin told me at the meeting where we kicked this office, he said, I promise you we will help, and he has, like many others in this room have done.

          Freddie Mac recently began 25 initiatives around the country to dismantle barriers and create greater opportunities for homeownership. One of the programs is designed to help deserving families who have bad credit histories to qualify for homeownership loans. Freddie Mac is also working with the Department of Defense to promote construction and financing for housing for men and women in the military.”

        • gonkers

           Bush 10-15-02: “…you don’t have to have a lousy home for first-time home buyers. If you put your mind to it, the first-time home buyer, the low-income home buyer can have just as nice a house as anybody else.”

      • WorriedfortheCountry

        Numerous attempt to reform Freddie and Fannie by the Bush WH.

        Read it and weep.

        http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2008/10/20081009-10.html

        • gonkers

           ROTF… so Bush pushes Fannie and Freddie to make irresponsible loans to people with bad credit. The GOP which controlled Congress refused to reform Fannie and Freddie… and Bush and the GOP are INNOCENT in the collapse of the housing market?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

    Who can fix the economy in 4 years? when it took for the Republicans Party 10 years to destroy the American middle class

    • Gregg Smith

      “Yes we can.”

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

        I know your Party can destroy the American economy and the middle class. Thank you for admitting that.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Mike Barnicle:  “The President had no teleprompter last night”

    OMG.  The left have started the teleprompter jokes.  It is over.
     

  • Gregg Smith
    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Check his leg.  He lost the thrill.
      LOL.

    • StilllHere

      If only Homeland was on MSNBC, then maybe the prez would watch.  Chris Matthews is a joke.

  • StilllHere

    Obama seemed to hang his head in cluelessness so often, trying to draw inspiration from his microphone.  Anyone notice the bulge in his back?  I’m guessing his hearing aide wasn’t working!

    • gonkers

       Hey Einstein, have you never heard of note-taking????? 

      • StilllHere

        Right, he was taking notes and still seemed clueless!  Can’t multi-task at a minimum.  Maybe he was doodling a chart of what’s happened to government debt since he took control.

  • hennorama

    Mitt’s Magic Math (in his own words):

    1.  My plan won’t increase the deficit but I won’t increase revenue

    “I want to underline that — no tax cut that adds to the deficit. But I do want to reduce the burden being paid by middle-income Americans. And I — and to do that that also means that I cannot reduce the burden paid by high-income Americans”

    [PRESIDENT OBAMA: There has to be revenue in addition to cuts. Now, Governor Romney has ruled out revenue. He’s -- he’s ruled out revenue.
    MR. LEHRER: That’s true, right?
    MR. ROMNEY: Absolutely.
    PRESIDENT OBAMA: OK, so --
    MR. LEHRER: Completely?
    MR. ROMNEY: I -- look, the revenue I get is by more people working, getting higher pay, paying more taxes. That’s how we get growth and how we balance the budget."]

    “But in order for us not to lose revenue, have the government run out of money, I also lower deductions and credits and exemptions so that we keep taking in the same money when you also account for growth.”

    2. I won’t give rich people a big tax cut AND I won’t raise taxes on the middle class AND I won’t talk about lower income people and their taxes:

    “My view is that we ought to provide tax relief to people in the middle class. But I’m not going to reduce the share of taxes paid by high- income people.”

    3. Cut all tax rates by 20% but make up for this through cutting loopholes and deductions:

    “I want to bring down rates. I want to bring down the rates down, at the same time lower deductions and exemptions and credits and so forth so we keep getting the revenue we need.”

    “Make up a number — 25,000 (dollars), $50,000. Anybody can have deductions up to that amount. And then that number disappears for high-income people.”
    ================================================
     Mr. Romney’s words simply cannot be logically resolved.

    - Same revenue- High income people pay the same- Middle income people pay less- Lower income people pay … no one knows, since Romney did not discuss them.

    This is what Romney said.

    Mitt’s Magic Math

    “Make up a number…”

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Here is the magic math.

      Let’s take 2011:

      Personal income tax receipts: $1.1T
      Personal income tax loopholes: $1.3T

      The math is simple — even for the challenged.

      There are plenty of loopholes to reduce rates by 20%.

      If you want an example — look at Simpson Bowles.

      • gonkers

        When it comes to taxes, the Right Wing still has problems with math and common sense because it stands in the way of their Free Lunch: stealing from our kids to piss away money on ourselves. 

        If for 12 YEARS revenues have been depressed over FY2000 levels because of the irresponsible Bush tax cuts, and Romney’s claiming his plan is revenue neutral…. then no matter how much growth there is… if the rates are too low, REVENUE WILL STILL BE TOO LOW.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           We need jobs — that is the only way out.

          That is the fastest way to the sustained revenue we need.

          • gonkers

            What kind of reality-resistant rock do you live under? As the Bush years proved Economic growth and jobs WILL NOT CREATE MUCH REVENUE IF TAX RATES ARE TOO LOW.

            Then there’s that little matter of paying down that $16 trillion debt. But then I predict the GOP has NO intention of do this any more now than when Bush2 promised to. The GOP NEEDS growing debt to “starve the beast”. Who cares if in FY11 alone we pissed away some 450 BILLION just on interest. The GOP would rather see that money wasted than spent to benefit the American People.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

             I suggest econ 101.

            It’s all in the guns and butter.

          • gonkers

            Let’s look at some recent history….

            SHOW US ALL where in constant dollars Bush Income Tax revenues were EVER better than Clinton’s last year.

          • gonkers

             crickets….

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=507593666 Josh DeYoung

             Yes we need Jobs. No that is not the only way out, that is your problem is that you think there is Mitt’s way or no way, that type of close-mindedness is exactly what is wrong with the republican party and the “Just Say No!” congress.

            I do really like some of the ideas and ideals that republicans have but the way that they just refuse to give an inch (Mitt said “I wont even take a 1 dollor increase in revuene for a $10 cut in spending”) is not good for America.

      • hennorama

        The following is editted for brevity and to stay on the Simpson-Bowles topic:

        [PRESIDENT OBAMA: ... Now, we all know that we’ve got to do more. And so I’ve put forward a specific $4 trillion deficit-reduction plan.

        It’s on a website. You can look at all the numbers, what cuts we make and what revenue we raise.

        And the way we do it is $2.50 for every cut, we ask for a dollar of additional revenue, paid for, as I indicated earlier, by asking those of us who have done very well in this country to contribute a little bit more to reduce the deficit.

        And Governor Romney earlier mentioned the Bowles-Simpson commission. Well, that’s how the commission -- bipartisan commission that talked about how we should move forward suggested we have to do it -- in a balanced way with some revenue and some spending cuts. And this is a major difference that Governor Romney and I have.

        Let -- let me just finish this point because you’re looking for contrast. You know, when Governor Romney stood on a stage with other Republican candidates for the nomination, and he was asked, would you take $10 of spending cuts for just $1 of revenue, and he said no...

        MR. LEHRER: Governor, what about Simpson-Bowles. Will you support Simpson-Bowles?

        MR. ROMNEY: Simpson-Bowles, the president should have grabbed that.

        MR. LEHRER: No, I mean do you support Simpson-Bowles?

        MR. ROMNEY: I have my own plan. It’s not the same as Simpson- Bowles.]

        So much for Romney and Simpson-Bowles.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           Yes, Romney’s plan is BETTER than Simpson Bowles right now because it will create more JOBS and that is what we need now.

          • hennorama

            HAHAHAHA What’s his plan? Besides “Make up a number…”

            [PRESIDENT OBAMA: …And at some point, I think the American people have to ask themselves, is the reason that Governor Romney is keeping all these plans to replace secret because they’re too good? Is — is it because that somehow middle-class families are going to benefit too much from them?”

          • gonkers

             ”Will Create Jobs”???

            Suddenly you believe in such predictions even after you bash the Obama team’s predictions? What about Reagan’s prediction to create 13 million new jobs by 1986 and only about 8.5 million were?

    • Bruce94

      You’re correct.  Romney’s plan is nonsensical–a reincarnation of “voodoo, trickle-down, smoke-screen” economics that serves as a Trojan horse for the wealthy feeding the Far Right’s appetite for a free lunch, that is, a cost-free, painless path to prosperity.

      Tax cuts that benefited primarily the wealthy were tried in the Reagan and Bush II years, and contributed to record deficits that exploded the national debt.  Under Reagan the debt increased from $800 billion to $3 trillion, and under Bush, the Prodigal Son, from $5 to $10 trillion.  What Etcha-Sketch failed to explain last night was how his plan would produce a different result from the tax-cutting frenzy of previous failed supply-side experiments.

      The middle-class and working poor suffered under both GOP regimes with Clinton providing the only respite from the growing income inequality that Saint Ronald gave us and the declining median family incomes, stagnant wages, middle-class contraction and financial collapse that the Prodigal Son gave us. 

      Unprecedented improvements in the status of the middle-class and working poor proceeded under Clinton AFTER taxes were raised on the wealthy and a new energy tax was levied.  What happened next was record GDP growth of 4% and an unemployment rate at the lowest level in 30 years.  The benefits of this growth were shared broadly in society unlike what occurred in both the Reagan and Bush recoveries. 

      But I have to say, Etcha exceeded my expectations last night.  It was a dazzling display of style over substance befitting an Olympic gymnast performing all kinds of contortions in order to run away from his previously held positions as fast as his feet could propel him. 

      That’s right…  according to his resume, Mitt does have experience with the Olympics. He claims to have single-handedly saved the Salt Lake City Olympics.  But wait!  I seem to remember that this self-proclaimed turn-around artist ended up accepting $342 million in FEDERAL subsidies on behalf of the Salt Lake City games.  Guess he’s not all that opposed to government dependency and earmarks when they benefit his cronies.

      I think last night’s debate will provide the Dems with a whole lot of fodder for not only future debates, but also campaign ads in which Romney’s lack of character, consistency and honesty will be made obvious to anyone who is still undecided or cares to check the facts.

      • William

         Obama could have ended the tax cuts but extended them so he believed they worked too.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    There was a zinger last night.

    Romney: ” I don’t know how the President and could have come into office facing 23 million out of work, rising economic crisis and spent energy and passion for two years fighting for Obama care instead of jobs for the American people.”

    Obama still doesn’t get it.

    • hypocracy1

      The zinger was when Mitt was telling the story about the lady asking Ann if they could help her!

      LOL!!! 

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

      Republicans don’t get because they won’t pass the American Jobs Act. “Some” Democrats are against it but the not the majority.

      If your Republican Party approved the American Jobs Act. Millions of contruction workers, teachers, law enforcement officers could have been hired back to work but instead your destrucrtive party will not support any Acts, Laws or Bills that will help the American people. And your party is complaining that there are no jobs being created by Obama

      Who do you think is the Hypocrite Obama or your Party?

      • WorriedfortheCountry

         Talk to Harry Reid who has blocked 32 common sense jobs bills that have passed the house.

        He won’t allow them to even come to the floor for debate or vote?

        And regarding Obama’s jobs bill, it is laden with poison pills.

        The cornerstone is money for 100K teachers even if they aren’t needed.  Hiring teachers is a local issue.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

          Please you DON’T KNOW WHAT IT IS IN THE JOBS ACTS.. You don’t like it because your Republican Party told you so.

          You rather be against an Act that will help millions of Americans and be worried for the country and your fellow Americans but you don’t want to support because for your beloved Repubican Party.

          You rather listen to them or find the FACTS for yourself.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

             Do you know what are in the 32 jobs bills passed by the house and blocked by Harry Reid?

            I didn’t think so.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

            Oh My God!!! You rather listen to Harry Reid than helping the 25 millions Americans without jobs.

            Does Harry Reid lining up on food stamps or WIC to get his help from the government because he lost his job. Or you rather listen to Harry Reid because you want to listen to him than listening to the American middle class?

        • http://www.facebook.com/hector.carballosa Hector J. Carballosa

           OMG!!!!!!!!!! HOW MANY POISON PILLS DO YOU THINK Reps have put in Bills over the last 65 years? over the last 4 years?!!!!  Worried, with much respect, sir, PLEASE educate yourself.  Goodbye.

      • http://www.facebook.com/hector.carballosa Hector J. Carballosa

         AND the income to those public employees would diffuse throughout the economy…but that’s socialism, right?  OR COMMON SENSE :)  the problem with obama isn’t his politics; it’s his ideology.  he states more people deserve fair treatment.  Reps state more people deserve hardship in order to build “character”, ingenuity, independence…sure.  i guess Dems are lazy.  it’s easy to preach from the mountain if your predecessors made it easy for you (Reps, Romney, et al) to get there. 

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

          Socialism never destroyed my 401k and 403b. American Capitalism did destroyed my retirement plans.

          I rather have Fair treatment than to have HARDSHIP in my life. If the Republicans party want the middle class and poor to do Hardship I guess they will ultimately destroy the United States of America.

          Democrats are not lazy 48% like me needs to be treated like human beings.

          We don’t want to ask for HELP if we make 15 million dollars a year like Romney and paid 14% on his tax. When I paid 30% and only made $35,000 to $45,000 a year.

    • http://www.facebook.com/hector.carballosa Hector J. Carballosa

       how can you blame obama for ANY failure when House AND Senate leaders have PUBLICALLY stated that THEIR number 1 job is to deny obama success this term and stop obama from winning a second term.  too much  blame for one man when a House and Senate full of loathing is against him.  Dems are no angels, but the Reps have blatantly undermined national unity at THE HIGHEST LEVEL of our civilization.  THESE ARE FACTS. not heresay.

    • StilllHere

      So true, he ramrods healthcare through Congress through under-the-table deals to Democrats but makes no effort on jobs at all.  It’s like a complete afterthought.  He is completely out of touch with Americans.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

    Bill Clinton said during NDC. That Obama was trying to cooperate with the Republicans even hired Republicans to work with him in fixing the Economy. He said Democrats don’t like Republicans but we don’t Hate them just like how they HATE the President.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       The Dems spent 8 years trashing W.

      Try again.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

        The meaning of Trashing is different from Hate. Try Again.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           There was plenty of hate for Bush.

          Give me a break.

          I don’t believe many people hate Obama.  They believe his policies are wrong and he is in over his head.  That is how I feel.  No hate from me.

          Also, I have stated on this board for 2 years now that if Obama had pushed for passage of a version of Simpson-Bowles he would have been re-elected, easily.  Obama went in a different direction.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

            Please Obamacare has not been fully implemented and your party is already against it. It has not been fully implemented but thousands Physicians Private Pratices are being reimbursed properly by CMS.

            no i don’t know nothing because I am only a Medicare Reimbursement Specialist.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

             Obamacare is a disaster.

            Most Dr.s support Romney.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

            Please that is another lie. Doctors and Nurses support Obamacare. Why do you think my friends nurses marched last year with 99%. Do not pretend that you know about the Healthcare world.
            And Again Obamacare is not a Disaster because it is not fully implemented yet. Stop being a liar because you are also lying to yourself.

            try again and rethink

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            No group is a monolith but check out this recent poll.

            http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/07/10/obamacare-driving-away-doctors/

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

            To talk to Boston Nurses Association

          • gonkers

             ROTF… the Doctor Patient Medical Association is a RIGHT WING group.

            http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Doctor_Patient_Medical_Association

      • Steve__T

          I’m sure he didn’t deserve it.

      • gonkers

         You mean Bush who promised to be humble and inclusive after losing the election but being installed by the Supreme Court… then did everything he could to jam a radical right wing agenda down our throats?

        At least OBAMA WON THE ELECTION.

    • StilllHere

      First of all, Clinton is a confirmed, admitted liar.

      Second, … I don’t really need a second do I.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

        Oh Please do not be such Hyprocrite all Politicians are liars.

        I am not even a Democrat or Repblican but a Liberal but I am sick and tired of the Republicans controlling the lives of the American people.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

    Democrats wants to work with Republicans like Barnie Frank but Republicans don’t want to work with Democrats to Solve the crisis that they created. Instead they blame the Democrats for the demise of the American middle class.

    Don’t worry the world supports Obama every newspapers in Southeast Asia and Europe support President Obama only here in America that being so Naive about our government can truly see how the world call some Americans stupid.

    How can you vote for the people who destroyed my 401k and my 403b? How can you vote for Romney - 

    WHO DOES NOT HAVE ANY FOREIGN POLICIES.

    • StilllHere

      Since we have no voter id laws, I would suggest like-minded Asians and Europeans come to the US and vote for Obama.  Nothing’s stopping ‘em.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

        A President need the support of the world in order for America to continue it’s foreign policies.

        • StilllHere

          He also needs to pay for them.

  • donrnow

    I would like to comment on one of your callers statements that the way Romney intends to pay for his program is by growing the economy through tax cuts and, as alluded to by Romney in the debate, by  creating jobs through small businesses hiring as a result tax cuts and deregulation.  First, the historical record shows and economists will tell you that revenues created by tax cuts never match the revenue lost by tax cuts, so taxes will have to be eventually raised as was done by Reagan post his tax reform initiative.  Secondly, economists and history also show that small businesses hiring is not what leads to full employment.  Hiring by corporations leads to full employment.  Think about it. To create the 261,600 jobs a month to get back to pre-Great Recession levels would require 5,232 small companies to hire 50 employees every month for a year.  Anyone who thinks this is possible is whistling in the wind.  We live in a corporate world and the employment numbers we must generate require that we become labor competitive globally and to the point where manpower is equally productive and cost efficient compared to use of technology.  Romney’s approach would be a disaster and return us to the same circumstances in which we found ourselves pre-Great Recession compounding the problem.  Lets face the fact that no one person is going to get us out of this mess, and that we all need to come together through both government and business actions in a balanced manner instituting tax reform (involving spending cuts, revenue increases, and loop hole elimination) regulatory tweaking, social security and medicare/medicaid reform, lobbying reform, rational need based military spending reform, etc.  Otherwise, we are doomed to years of the morass in which we find ourselves since the math just does not add up.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Sorry but revenues went up after both of Bush’s tax cuts, Reagan’s tax cuts and JFKs tax cuts.

      We don’t need economists to tell us (which they don’t btw) just look at the data.

      • http://www.facebook.com/hector.carballosa Hector J. Carballosa

         according to what? revenues where? for whom? how long did it last?  you want failure of leadership: Bush did N-O-T-H-I-N-G to gear up the Nation after 911, except for photo-ops on a carrier and sending our troops (unprepared) into war.  Our “Leader” should have gotten ALL Americans on board, not just those who fear foreigners.  In my view, modern terrorism is nearly equal to WWII.  So why no equivalent national mobilization?  Add up the billions spent in Iraq/Afghanistan and we could have already have an alternative energy infrastructure and developed technologies to get us off oil dependence (think of the A-bomb project of WWII).  I am a veteran.

      • gonkers

         Revenue grows NATURALLY. What these tax cuts do is blunt the growth curve for 3-4-6 years.

        You’re also being dishonest about JFK and Reagan. In BOTH cases what’s being counted as revenue IS ALSO FROM TAX HIKES. Even then in constant dollars after EIGHT years, Reagan revenues were only up about 13%.

        In Bush’s case in constant dollars income tax revenues NEVER exceeded Clinton’s last year. On-budget revenues only exceeded Clinton’s last year once for a pathetic 70 billion… that’s it… with the other 7 years LOWER revenues.

        Please get your facts straight for once.

      • gonkers

        The right wing logic on revenue after irresponsible tax cuts goes something like this. Little Johny has stayed back in 8th grade for 6 years. But he FINALLY got into 9th grade when he was 18… so there’s NOTHING wrong with Little Johny.

      • donrnow

        I have looked at the data.  I suggest you look at all of the historical data on this point, not just what you want to select to buttress your viewpoint.  Yes, revenues went up which I do not dispute.  But why were taxes increased contrary to the conservative philosophy?  The tax cuts in themselves could not generate enough income to meet the government expenditures, which is my point!.  Also, the implication of previous need to raise taxes to cover the shortfalls in revenue is that Romney will have to raise taxes contrary to his statements to the contrary, so he is being disingenuous.

        • Mike_Card

          Worried and the rest of that gang are too busy bothering the grown-ups to actually look for daya; they just make up whatever sounds good for their snark.

      • gonkers

        Income tax revenue in constant dollars only went up a pathetic 8% during Reagan’s 8 years.

        Much of what the Orwellian Right dishonestly counts as revenue from the tax cuts actually came from two massive tax hikes… in 82 and 83. 

  • libraryshortcake

    I woke up this morning and was so shocked to see all the headlines saying Romney won the debate… I thought he came across as so phony and unlikable, and that the President was right to criticize him for having vague ideas with no plan for putting them in place. He also sounded like he was hijacking a lot of OBAMA’S ideas, contrary to all of his rhetoric leading up to the debate.

    • http://www.facebook.com/hector.carballosa Hector J. Carballosa

       that’s my bottom line: Romney seems a poster-boy for Insincerity and Selfishness (have you seen the vids of Rom saying how much he likes fame, money?  but no surprise videos showing him actually caring for any human being).

      • libraryshortcake

        I suppose that the President could have attacked harder and threw in jabs about Romney’s 47% comments, his wealth and tax rates and so on, but I’ve always respected Mr. Obama for his civility. I only wish that attention was drawn to the fact that a platform that calls for less regulation and smaller government, wants 50 separate governments controlling health care, and wants the federal government to regulate social issues like marriage, and women’s health. Other than that, I thought Obama did a decent job of exposing the lack of substance behind Romney’s words.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Liberal journOlist Joe Klein:
     ”One of the most inept performances by a President”

  • SomMom

    I was hoping Jim Lehrer would ask Romney where he stood on abortion and gun control last night — Since Romney had shaken the Etch-a-Sketch yet again last night, I wondered if he’s also returned to his being pro-choice, as he was when he ran for Mass. governor.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       We all know how both Romney and Obama stand on those issues — there is NO debate.

      Give Lehrer credit to direct the debate to the most important issues for most voters.

      • SomMom

         My point is that who really knows where Romney stands on any issue? Romney misrepresented himself last night: he misrepresented his tax plan, he embraced Massachusetts’ healthcare plan, and he called himself bipartisan. When he ran for governor (and senator) in Mass., he misrepresented himself too.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           Romney has been very steady on issues over the last 6 years.

          In fact, Obama has changed far more positions than Romney during just the last 5 years.

          Obama hammered Hillary hard on insurance mandates and then gets elected and changes his mind and implements them.

          • http://www.facebook.com/hector.carballosa Hector J. Carballosa

             were they the same mandates, verbatim?  were their timelines the same as obama’s? were they equally extensive, deep?  no. no. no. no.

          • SomMom

             Romney ran as one type of person for Mass. senate and governor, and within 2 years of being elected governor, he totally changed his positions. As a moderate he was able to work with Dems. But the Etch a Sketch metaphor was his own advisor’s words! You can’t tell what you’ll get with him next.

            Insurance mandates are the only way everyone can get health insurance, other than a single-payer plan.

            It’s true that Obama has been much more concerned with reaching across the aisle than he should have been! And I think that’s why he didn’t go on the attack last night. It’s not in his character.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Obama concerned with reaching across the aisle?  What reality do you live in?

            In his first meeting with the GOP he interrupted and blurted out: “We won”.  He refuses to meet with the other side.  Tip O’Neil and Reagan worked together just fine.

            Regarding Romney, he only changed his position as governor on one position and that was when the embryonic stem cell bill came to his desk.  He went out of his way to explain WHY he changed his position.  He wrote a long op-ed piece in the Globe.

            I still thought he was a great Governor on the economic and fiscal stuff.

            Anyhow, I’m sure we can agree to disagree and I appreciate your thoughts.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           Romney did NOT misrepresent his tax plan last night.  I’ve been following Romney closely and there was no change.

          You are confusing a change in plan vs. Axelrod lies about Romney’s plan.  You need to broaden your source of information.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           Romney did work with Democrats as Governor.  He talked about the Monday meeting with leaders of the legislature.

          Tom Fineran, Democrat speaker of the house, talked about those meetings with Romney when he had a local radio show.  He said Romney was a hard worker and they had a good working relationship.

          The last time Obama met Boehner it was on the golf course in Ohio about two years ago. 

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

            How can Obama speak to Boehner when is always against Obama’s policies just like Ryan.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            How could Reagan meet with Tip O’Neil?  Or Clinton with Newt?

            It is called leaderhip.

            Ooops!

        • StilllHere

          Well if you could figure out he “misrepresented” himself, how come a genius like Obama who lives in politics couldn’t.  Or maybe Obama didn’t because he couldn’t because there were no “misrepresentations.”

          • MordecaiCarroll

             http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2012/10/03/162263539/romney-goes-on-offense-pays-for-it-in-first-wave-of-fact-checks?ft=1&f=1014&sc=tw

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          Romney has been consistent defending the MA healthcare program.  He got a lot of heat for it in  the primaries.

          He has consistently stated it should not be a federal program — where costs explode.

          There are many differences between RC and Obamacare.  Obamacare is 2500 pages long and RC is only 60.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

            Who needs a 2500 pages Healthcare reform in a small state like Massachusetts? LOL

            25000 pages are for the 50 States or for the entire USA dude!

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

            Who needs a 2500 pages Healthcare reform in a small state like Massachusetts? LOL

            25000 pages are for the 50 States or for the entire USA dude!

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            No, it is bloat and a disaster.

            Keep government local whenever possible.  You will always have more accountability.

          • gonkers

            You mean like poor schools in poor states? Jim Crow laws?

            There IS a downside to  federalism.

        • hennorama

          Here’s what Mr. Romney says, and then what he says that’s the opposite of what he said:

          http://www.mittvmitt.com/

          and also:

          http://mittromneyflipflops.com/

          I’ve remarked before about Mr. Romney’s real job creation plans:

          1.  Say a bunch of stupid, crass stuff, giving endless new opportunities to unemployed joke writers, standup comics and satirists, and

          2.  Continue to say things, then say something else completely contradictory, giving new research opportunities to anatomists and biological researchers to try to discover how many sides Mr. Romney’s mouth actually has.

          Mr. Romney is like the weather – if you don’t like what he says, just wait 5 minutes – it’ll change.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Lehrer let Obama run the clock and fed Obama an answer when he was fumbling. 

    • StilllHere

      He only fed him an answer some of the times he was fumbling, there were plenty of times he was just fumbling on his own.  Very sad to watch.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    The National Journal had a poll of likely voters the day before the debate.
    Romney -47
    Obama  -47

    However, Romney was up +8 with independents.

    Hmmm.

  • pe0m

    I found the debate very hard to follow, even by reading the transcript. The key point was that it was never stated clearly that the $5 trillion figure came from the Tax Policy Center. What would Romney do if he became president, put his policies into operation, and discovered that tax revenue would indeed be reduced by some amount? He should be able to tell us whether he would increase taxes to make up the shortfall, build the national debt even higher, or get out of the problem by some other means.

  • Steve__T

    Thanks Disqus

    • gonkers

      Something I posted on yesterday:

      DISQUS BUG NOTE: I can tell when a response to another post will become a
      new post because the text no longer flows as I write. It just stops
      displaying any new text and I can’t see what else I’m typing.

      • Steve__T

         Thanks I watch for that,

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

    Ladies and Gentlemen don’t sweat it out. because last night was only the first debate, there will be 2 more to come and let us see Obama might be just warming up from last night.

    Remember He was taking notes and might use those against Romney

  • AC

    holy smokes! so many on-going comments!! How do people find the time? i’ve been so busy lately i’m lucky if i can even peripherally listen to a whole show!!
    seriously, are most of you retired?

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1550427523 Akilez Stamatelaky

      We are the 47%. wink

      • Gregg Smith

        Man I sure wished Obama had gone there. Maybe next time.

    • TomK_in_Boston

      The TeaOP anti-gvt characters on SS and Medicare don’t have much else to do in their nursing homes.

    • gonkers

       Or they are paid to post.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Obama’s reelection case rests on 5 phony claims.  Everyone who bought into Bill Clinton’s convention speech needs to read this and keep their mind open. 

    http://news.investors.com/100312-627990-presidents-case-for-re-election-rests-on-five-claims-all-phony.aspx?p=full

  • 1Brett1
    • MordecaiCarroll

      I saw that.  Pretty damning.  Romney’s ability to sound confident while knowingly telling lies  is rivaled only by Dick Cheney. He’s that accomplished a liar.

      Here’s another very informative piece about the dizzying number of factually challenged assertions Romney made last night.

      http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/10/04/958801/at-last-nights-debate-romney-told-27-myths-in-38-minutes/

    • Gregg Smith

      I guess it’s good that you posted the logic. I wonder how many fall for it? Part of the $5T is said to come from extending Bush’s tax cuts. The idea they are somehow sitting back there where we left them as a revenue stream more than a decade out after all that has happened is just nuts to me. And then when the claim becomes the alleged lost revenue actually costs us money when no money is even exchanged, a little trickle of blood runs out of my ear. It’s all based on what would have been constant growth with no tech bubble, no housing bubble, no bursting of said bubbles, no banking crisis, no 9/11 and no double dip threat. It’s also belied by the very same CBO who now predicts doom if the tax cuts expire as scheduled on Jan.1. The economy is what it is and we are where we are, there is no “would have been and is still there” number. The rest of the $5T comes from his plan to lower rates but once again it’s all in a vacuum. And you would think Romney’s overhaul would trump everything as is anyway but they just add up all the numbers to get to their $5T in their land of “butterfies and zebras… and moonbeams… and fairy tales”. It’s all monopoly money. It’s numbers on a piece of paper. It’s not real. The idea is growth.

      As I understand, his plan is like Simpson/Bowles in that it lowers rates and offsets that with eliminating most deductions. Sure Romney could be a bit more forthcoming on the details but he made his promise on the record. S/B got there whether the fact checkers believe it or not. Romney will too.

      • hennorama

        Mr. Romney’s plan is “…like Simpson/Bowles…” in that is is NOT like Simpson-Bowles.  Here’s exactly what Mr. Romney said when asked directly:

        “LEHRER: Governor, what about Simpson-Bowles? Do you support Simpson-Bowles?

        ROMNEY: Simpson-Bowles, the president should have grabbed that.

        LEHRER: No, I mean, do you support Simpson-Bowles?

        ROMNEY: I have my own plan. It’s not the same as Simpson- Bowles.”

        “Romney could be a bit more forthcoming …”

        Actually, Mr. Romney’s words were very telling:

        “Those are my principles … Make up a number — 25,000 (dollars), $50,000. Anybody can have deductions up to that amount. And then that number disappears …”

        Disappears, like magic.

        Mitt’s Magic Math.

        • Gregg Smith

          The part that I said was similar is similar.

      • gonkers

        The above is Gregg’s way of “explaining” how irresponsible tax cuts are always a free lunch.

        He just sweeps under the carpet revenue that COULD have been collected under the old rates claiming if we can never know precisely what it might have been it can never have been said to be lost. He even rejects the simple static projection of PROVEN revenues, say from Clinton’s last year into the Bush years.

        The Orwellian Right has spent 30 years and hundreds of millions sabotaging the collective IQ of today’s conservatives so they accept such nonsense… and as we see here everyday… it’s paid off.

  • Gregg Smith
    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Wow.  That is awesome and sad at the same time.

      Thanks Gregg.

    • StilllHere

      At times he’s smirking, especially at the unemployed and foodstamps stats, and at other times he looks completely shell-shocked and dejected like the jig is up. 

    • gonkers

      As opposed to Romney looking like a child molester with those beady eyes and that creepy half grin?

      • StilllHere

        You know what a child molester looks like, how?  Forget it, I don’t want to know.

  • gonkers

    Since so few have ever heard of Voodoo Economics… the original Orwellian Right Free Lunch fairytale Reagan told…. Romney recycled it for the new generation of Braindead Dittoheads out there dying to be duped!

    Yup Tax Cuts = Revenue Booms!!! 

    • StilllHere

      Obama trickle down is based on growing deficits and government borrowing to fund unnecessary, wasteful and fraudulent government programs to employ and benefit his constituency thereby improving his re-election chances.

      • gonkers

        And where was that massive revenue boom in the BUSH’S eight years? In constant dollars income tax revenues NEVER exceeded Clinton’s last year.  That’s a WORST record than even Reagan where income tax revenues at least went up a pitiful 8% in 8 years.

      • hennorama

        Please O Mighty One share your vast knowledge and enlighten us as to the facts behind your claims about all of these “…unnecessary, wasteful and fraudulent programs…”

        Please be specific, O Mighty One.

        Please.

        Please share your exceptional command of the facts as to how these programs “…employ and benefit his constituency thereby improving his re-election chances.”

        Please demonstrate your superb skill in explaining your position.

        Please be specific, O Mighty One.

        Please.

    • William

       Obama endorsed it, extended it, and tacked on his own tax cut.

      • gonkers

        And where are the revenues? One MIGHT think that after TWELVE YEARS of low revenues even the dumbest Right winger might finally catch on that tax cuts REDUCE REVENUE.

        • hypocracy1

          The revenues went into the personal bank accounts of the ‘Job Creators’

  • William

     The best comment was when Chris was crying that Robert Kennedy was not in the Green Room. The Kennedy family really needs to adopt Chris.

  • William

     That is not what Bob Woodward said in his latest book.

  • MordecaiCarroll

    I’ll hand it to Romney: he lies convincingly.  It almost sounds as if he believes his b.s. about his proposals. He must have woodshedded those lies the last several weeks. Congratulations are in order to Willard for lying so successfully!

    Here’s a rundown of the dizzying number of lies / misleading statements Romney made:

    http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/10/04/958801/at-last-nights-debate-romney-told-27-myths-in-38-minutes/

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Why are you getting your info from a propaganda factory like think progress?

      • MordecaiCarroll

         Nice attempt at dodging the point. 

        I’ll give you two examples of Romney misleading.

        Right after the debate, Romney’s campaign aide Eric Fehrnstron admitted that it wasn’t entirely true that Romney’s health plan would cover people with preexisting conditions.  It’s only true for people who are continuously insured.  Others could be tossed off the insurer’s rolls.

        Romney on green initiatives: “I think about half of [the green firms Obama invested in], of
        the ones have been invested in have gone out of business. A number of
        them happened to be owned by people who were contributors to your
        campaigns.”

        Actually 3 out of 26 filed for bankruptcy.  Romney’s people admitted today he was wrong to say 50%. 

        That’s to say nothing about Romney’s boogie man claim about the 716 Billion from Medicare (Ryan uses the same 716 billion in savings in his plan, but Romney conveniently forgets that), or his ludicrous claim that his 5 Trillion dollar tax cut can be paid for by some loopholes that he’s going to specify later. 

        Romney’s whole m.o. is to be willfully vague on details of his various “plans”, and then just say “trust me, it’s all gonna work out.”  To actually provide specifics would open him up to criticism and he can’t have that.  He’s running for President, for Pete’s sake!

        • Bruce94

          Great unpacking of some of Romney’s whoppers that appear on the surface and should smack the undecided voter right between the eyes. 

          I also liked the exchange involving the correct assertion by Obama that companies can take a tax deduction for moving a plant overseas.  This was a classic example of Romney’s neurons misfiring reminiscent of the blustering, blathering Rick Perry. 

          Notice, Obama didn’t say that the deduction was a special break, but Romney responded as if he did once again making stuff up–a Romney trait which might make for good theater, but is definitely unseemly and unpresidential.

          Here’s the substance of Romney’s assertion:  “You said you get a deduction for getting a plant overseas…I have no idea what you’re talking about.  I maybe need to get a new accountant.” 

          Then with real conviction he doubled-down insisting “The idea that you get a break for shipping jobs overseas is simply not the case.”  LOL

          Under present law deductions are permitted for all necessary expenses incurred in carrying on trade or business including relocating.  And to think, Romney was ignorant of this common practice AND is vying for the position of Outsourcer-in-Chief.

          I imagine after last night the fact checkers will be pulling extra shifts and collecting overtime exposing all of Romney’s false and  misleading statements.

          So, instead of defunding Big Bird, maybe it would make better sense if the Bird Brain attacking Obama last night were defunded by the eccentric billionaires backing his campaign after sifting through all his lies and distortions. 

  • Joseph_Wisconsin

     
    So I did not even watch the debate.  Work has been intense lately and I have better things to do with my time.  I already have a clear picture of both candidates, the direction they would like to take the country in, the policies that they would like to implement, and what all that will mean for various segments of the American population.

    Honestly my opinion is that the debates themselves will not matter that much, not if they all go in any similar fashion to what I have read so far about last night.  I’ve not seen much talk in the media about any moments that will make much in the way of positive or negative television ads for either candidates.  That and I think that more voters will view and be potentially be swayed by what the various media analysts and spinmeisters have to say about who won or lost than the number that actually watched the debates.  Perception is reality.  So in that Romney won. 

    There are really so few undecided voters at this point, and I am with what Bill Maher said recently about a big majority of those.  The undecided are not a lot of Hamlets seeking out every possible piece of information before agonizing over their choice.  Most of them are just people who don’t know that much and aren’t that interested.  

    It will be interesting to see what the polls show after enough time to let the initial hype dissipate, especially in the states where it really matters like Ohio, Florida, Virginia, and Colorado. Probably polls conducted next week will provide a picture. 

  • hypocracy1

    The Party of ‘No’ is running a candidate that says we need a President that has to be able to reach across the aisle!!??

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      “I won”  – Barack Obama — January 23, 2009 when talking to GOP leaders.

      Obama gave the finger to bipartisanship 3 days into office and he was rooted on by proven hacks like Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.

      • gonkers

        AGAIN no link so we can see for ourselves what your source actually said? Or is it that blatantly far Right?

  • Potter

    Here is Obama today:

    “Now, last night, we had our first debate. And when I got on stage, I met a very spirited fellow who claimed to be Mitt Romney. But it couldn’t have been Mitt Romney — because the real Mitt Romney has been running around the country for the last year promising $5 trillion in tax cuts that favor the wealthy. But the fellow on stage last night said he didn’t know anything about that.

    “The real Mitt Romney said we don’t need any more teachers in our classrooms. But the fellow on stage last night said he loves teachers — can’t get enough of ‘em.

    “The Mitt Romney we all know invested in companies that were called “pioneers” of outsourcing jobs to other countries. But the guy on stage last night, he said he’s never heard of tax breaks for companies that ship jobs overseas. He said if that’s true, he must need a new accountant. Now we know for sure it wasn’t the real Mitt Romney — because he seems to be doing just fine with the accountant he has.

    “You see, the man on stage last night – he doesn’t want to be held accountable for what the real Mitt Romney’s been saying for the last year. And that’s because he knows full well that we don’t want what he’s been selling for the last year. Governor Romney may dance around his positions, but if you want to be President, you owe the American people the truth.

    “So here’s the truth: Governor Romney cannot pay for his $5 trillion tax plan without blowing up the deficit or sticking it to the middle class. And we can’t afford to go down that road again. We can’t afford another round of budget-busting tax cuts for the wealthy. We can’t afford to gut our investments in education or clean energy or research and technology. We can’t afford to rollback regulations on Wall Street banks or big oil companies or insurance companies. We cannot afford to double down on the same top-down economic policies that got us into this mess. That’s not a plan to create jobs. That’s not a plan to grow the economy. That’s not a change — that is a relapse.

    “Denver, we’ve been there, we’ve tried it, and we are not going back. We are going forward.”

    • StilllHere

      Good ole teleprompter where were you last night?  I had to lie on my own and forgot most of what I wanted to say and what I did say didn’t make any sense.  Oh, teleprompter don’t ever leave me again, without you I’m not presidential just pitiful.

      • Potter

        There should be a limit on how many posts people like you can make. StillHere is an apt name for yourself. 

        Fact is the president was tired from working as President, handling urgent matters in addition to campaigning, unlike his opponent on the trail 24/7.  Obama took it slow and from what I understand purposely held back- smart perhaps because today he has a lot of material. Fact checkers have had a party with Romney lies. At least Obama was thinking as he was talking. Mitt Romney behaved like a spoiled child  and was rehearsed talking points all the way. What will people believe about the kickapoo joy juice, the solutions, the positions that he claims will fix us  that he was selling last night?

        Enjoy this superficial win while you can.

        • StilllHere

          There’s no quota apparently on excuse-making on the president’s behalf.  He was tired.  Oh, well, sorry for keeping him up.
          He was thinking while talking.  Ha, so that’s why he couldn’t put two words together and made no sense whatsoever.  

          You Obama sheep are too funny!

          • MordecaiCarroll

            Unlike Romney, whose “job” the last 7 years has been running for President, Obama doesn’t have the luxury of spending weeks preparing for a single debate. 

          • Potter

            And from what I understand he had just landed in Denver from a heavy schedule. StillHere, who is still here should have a quota-it should apply to all incessant posters who have nothing else to do apparently.

          • StilllHere

            Just landed in Denver on Air Force One.  Such hardship!  If being president is too tough, he should definitely go back to being a community organizer.

          • MordecaiCarroll

             yes, some people do post a whole lot on a daily basis.  I agree there should be a quota.

          • StilllHere

            Please, what’s the president up to?  Meeting with Beyonce and JZ, going on the View for hard-hitting questions about his diet.  This president is a joke and so are you sheep!!

          • MordecaiCarroll

            yeah,  Obama should do the important stuff – like picking out music for Ann Romney’s fancy dancing horse Rafalca’s next “dressage” competition.  That takes leadership

          • anamaria23

            Please tell us about  the “couldn’t   put two  words together.”

      • anamaria23

        Please reference what President Obama lied about in the debate.

    • OnPointComments

      I’m surprised that President Obama didn’t use his fallback excuse as blame for his poor debate performance:  it was Bush’s fault.

      • http://www.facebook.com/steve.collins.712161 Steve Collins

        Mitt’s team  already is walking back some of his statements.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000233551222 Michael McHone

      So right. Reagan sold the lie, and both Bush’s did, to the detriment of our country.  Too bad the republicans didn’t care more about their country and less about their jobs, and spent their energies trying to work with the President, instead of stonewalling and doing everything they could to block his plans.  Obama underestimate the evil of their hearts, assumed they would support their own former policies and ideas and get the country back on its feet, instead of focusing their powers on dethroning the president.

  • hennorama

    Romney the Omnipotent Omniscient Oligarch (in his own words):

    “So there’s no economist that can say Mitt Romney’s tax plan adds $5 trillion if I say I will not add to the deficit with my tax plan.”

    Because Romney says so.  Of course. So there.

    IF you have Mitt’s Magic Math.

    “Make up a number …”

  • StilllHere

    America won the debate last night.  We saw before our own eyes that our president is a lying and cheating airhead who can’t manage a cogent thought or a reasonable sentence. His dismal performance has many Democrats rethinking their poor choice from four years ago.  Proven to be an intellectual lightweight and incapable of leading this country, the question is who’s pulling the strings?  

    • anamaria23

      Obviously you would be enchanted by one such as Mitt Romney, a cruel man who does not mind lying repeatedly to the American people.   Your above comment is viscous and cheap not unlike your candidate’s frequent personal  insults to the POTUS
      And, how do you reconcile the Mitt Romney who has been campaining to the far right until last night.  Now he is the great moderate who is in love with the  47% who he accused of victimhood and lacking responsibility.
      Do you really think he is going to sweep into office and find them all lucrative employment so they can pay their “own way”?

  • burroak

    Romney went into the debate knowing about the 47% comment, he knew he could not persuade the 47%. However his goal last night was to win that 5 to 10% middle voting block. He was assertive, aggresive, and determined to sell his product….whether it was stylish flipflops, or a flashy etchesketch.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Romney has always been for the 100%

      Obama is killing the golden goose but the leftists and hacks don’t realize it yet.

      • burroak

        I am an independent, elaborate, thank you.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          So am I.

            Romney understands the only way out of this mess is growing the economy and the resulting jobs.  This will eventually raise tax revenue and increase the ranks of the middle class and lessen the burdens on the poor.

          Obama does not understand.

          In 2010, Obama said we can’t raise taxes during a weak economy and he pushed to extend the Bush tax cuts.  The economy was growing at 2.5% at that point.  Tepid and weak.  Great.

          In 2012, during an election, Obama now says we need to hike taxes on the rich.
          However, the economy is only growing at 1.25% — half the rate of 2010. 

          Obama’s tax hike will cost 700,000 jobs according to the CBO but yet only pay for one day of federal spending.  A horrible tradeoff.

          Romney has also said the following: “whenever we pass government regulation we need to measure both the benefit and cost”.  He was getting to that a bit with his criticism of Dodd-Frank which actually perpetuates too big to fail and has unintended consequences.

          Thanks for listening.

          • gonkers

            ROTF… let me guess… you’re saying the GOP opposed Dodd Frank because it was too weak???

            I certainly think it is. But the GOP was against it because they didn’t want to place ANY meaningful restrictions on their buddies on Wall Street.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

             How many bankers have been prosecuted by Obama?

            Is Jon Corzine in the witness protection program?

            Seriously, I believe in common sense regulation like Glass-Steagall (30 pages and 70 years) instead of beasts like Dodd-Frank (2800 pages) and SarBox which grow and grow over the years.  Also, these kinds of regulation favor large companies and banks.

          • gonkers

            Hey… unlike you I’m not a fanatical partisan. I’m NOT a Dem. I didn’t vote for Obama. And I’m on record in these forums that Obama has been  a utter failure when it comes to reforming Wall St.

            So where us YOUR ever noble GOP in calling for Wall Street prosecutions?

            Where are YOU???

            BTW… letting banks merge and get bigger and bigger back in the 90′s was a RIGHT WING idea.

             

             

          • WorriedfortheCountry

             I’m not part of the GOP.

            I’ve been critical of Bush and the Tom Delay types too.

            However, Obama is in charge now and we need to hold HIM accountable.

          • gonkers

             Obviously we can’ know if you’re a registered GOPer. What we all DO know is your a slavish GOP propaganda spewer.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          Another point.  Romney’s energy policy is a four-for.

          1) It will create jobs, good jobs
          2) It will lower energy costs – which always leads to middle class prosperity
          3)It will create massive direct federal revenues due to new royalties and leases
          4) It will allow us to reduce our footprint in the Middle east by removing our nation security interest
           

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           Obama’s plan will lead to continued tepid economic growth and job growth will continue to hurt the middle class and create a new normal. The massive rise in debt will hurt the poor and middle class most of all.

          Ultimately, the safety net will have to be reduced at an ever increasing rate. 

          Thing Weimar Republic in the ’20s.

          • burroak

            Any relevant books worth reading.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Perhaps:

            Basic Economics — A common sense guide to the economy

            by Dr. Thomas Sowell

            But that one is 654 pages.

            It might be more instructive to check out the following website and check out the growing debt and unfunded entitlement liabilities. It is eyeopening.

            Pay particular attention to the share of debt per person (man women and child) and share of entitlement responsibility per taxpayer.

            Every voter — and citizen — of all stripes needs to study this single page.

            http://www.usdebtclock.org/

          • burroak

            Thanks

          • bsorcs

            A more cogent observation would be the review of the President’s performance in the 01 September edition of The Economist.

            http://www.economist.com/node/21561909/print

          • gonkers

            PLEASE W, please stop jamming your Orwellian Right propaganda down poor B’s throat.

            So in your latest alternate universe it’s OBAMA who poses a threat to safety net programs like SS and Medicare?

            The GOP has spent THIRTY YEARS trying to create more debt… even in good economic times,  all hoping the day would come where they could say with a straight face… we must cut those programs because we can’t afford them. BTW, we will NOT touch any GOP priorities… tax cuts for the rich, defense, corporate welfare etc.

            See how it works B?

      • MordecaiCarroll

        “Romney has always been for the 100%”

        Is this snark?  If so, I approve.

        Romney has been for the 100% since the day after the 47% video was made public. 

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/LSBI47KK6DGIIOAGLVURBSKPBU Damon

    people are essentially fear-based, and its just too scary for them to accept the fact that presidents have very little control the world in which we live.

    so since the real world as a runaway train is too scary to consider, they gladly gobble up false promises of security.

    most of the situations that the country finds itself are a result of complex dynamics that have been evolving for decades, and short term changes take years to play out in full.

    one term of a presidency affects change like a row boat pushing on an air craft carrier: it’ll move the carrier, but you’ll have to wait a long time to see the change in course.

  • RolloMartins

    It’s not a debate unless the other two major candidates show up. This was a farce and just shows the corruption in our system.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Maybe the other major parties could build coalitions by winning house and Senate races first.

      It is  impossible for a 3rd party to gain any traction when you have a choice election like this year.

  • ExcellentNews

    It’s neither privilege nor government that are inherently evil – its the combination of privilege and government that makes a country into a Banana Republic. 

  • Mike_Card

    After 3 months of hopping up & down on his d!ck, Willard finally puts on a performance.  The mass media–who stand to benefit substantially, if there actually is a contest–go into orgasm mode.  Think of the internal anguish if the media had to contemplate another month of Romney self-destruction: decreasing ad revenue.

    It’s the same reason they don’t play the World Series over the 4th of July weekend–the press and TV are too invested, even though everyone else knows the end of this movie.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Axelrod:  Oh crap! Poof! $250M invested in negative character assignation ads undone in a mere 90 minutes.

      • StilllHere

        Gonna have to hit up Soros again!
        Expect a call from Katzenberg!

        • http://www.facebook.com/steve.collins.712161 Steve Collins

          Mitty’s numbers don’t add up.

          • StilllHere

            Gee, if only a genius like Obama could have done some math to show us that, but alas he couldn’t.  Wonder why.  Because Obama has figured out the math does work.  I think I’ll go with Obama’s view as opposed to yours.

      • http://www.facebook.com/steve.collins.712161 Steve Collins

        WFTC- ask all of Mitty’s primary opponents about negative ads. He’s the master.

    • StilllHere

      Wow, look where your “mind” goes, you are definitely not getting enough.  Hard to figure the ladies don’t go for you?!

    • Mike_Card

      Willard has continued his march toward becoming someone important.  He denies whatever he has said previously, unless it forwards his agenda.  Willard wants to have President on his resume and will do anything, anything, to obtain that.  A classic empty suit.

      The scary part is the number of morons who are actually allowed to vote, and they will–based on his monumental  lies and blatant untruths–cast their votes for him.

  • brettearle

    Obama has the potential to defend his policies and has the potential to refute Romney’s claims.

    But whether he does it is another matter. 

    Obama needs the right debate-format to do so; the right motivation to do so.

    And the right MODERATOR to do so.

    • JGC

      Well, we have Candy Crowley moderating a town hall style debate on Oct. 16.  The audience will be comprised of undecided, independent fence-sitters chosen by one of the polling firms.  I wonder how that will go. I bet Crowley is as concerned about blowback as is Obama right now.

      • brettearle

        Thanks for the reply.

        I responded above.

      • RobertLongView

        TEApublicans will be an easy mark for Romneyhood!  If Romney can’t hoodwink ‘em then Friar Ryan will escort the undecideds up to the alter for communion, i believe he calls the ceremony now days.  

  • http://www.facebook.com/steve.collins.712161 Steve Collins

    Mitt looked like an over eager puppy wetting the carpet. 
    He appeared to be on speed, with those crazy eyes.
    Obama looked much more restrained & in control.

    I’ll be voting for a president, not a debater.

    • StilllHere

      Obama was a zombie or punch drunk.  He couldn’t defend his presidency and it’s completely understandable.

  • brettearle

    It takes an especially savvy and courageous moderator.

    He/She must:

    Know when/how/why to interrupt

    He/She must:

    Either challenge a debater himself; or literally ask the opponent to respond.

    Neither candidate should throw out claims–WITHOUT FORCING THAT CANDIDATE TO BACK THEM UP.

    Indeed, Mr. Romney STEAMROLLED EVERYONE.

    AND BOTH OBAMA AND LEHRER LET HIM GET AWAY WITH IT.

    BOTH OBAMA AND LEHRER WERE BLINDSIDED; BOTH OF THEM DID NOT EXPECT THE AGGRESSIVE BARRAGE.

    I SAY ROMNEY IS, PARTIALLY, A BARKER, WHO IS SELLING THE AMERICAN PEOPLE A BILL OF GOODS THAT, IN CERTAIN PLACES, HAS A STENCH TO THE MERCHANDISE.

    LAST NIGHT THEY LET MR. ROMNEY GET AWAY WITH IDEOLOGICAL MURDER.

    MR. ROMNEY WAS NOT CHALLENGED ENOUGH ABOUT HEALTH CARE, ABOUT HIS ENERGY POLICY, ABOUT HIS TAX POLICIES, ABOUT HIS DEFICIT POLICIES, AND ABOUT HIS JOB-CREATION STRATEGY.

    I SAY THAT SOME OF HIS CLAIMS MAY NOT ADD UP–ESPECIALLY WITH REGARD TO TAX STRATEGY FOR BUSINESS AS WELL AS INDIVIDUALS.

    MR. ROMNEY CAME OUT WITH MORE GUNS–BUT SOME OF THE FIREARMS SHOT BLANKS.

    HOWEVER, THE SHEER RANGE OF ROMNEY’S BRAVADO CAUGHT BOTH OBAMA AND LEHRER OFF GUARD–SO THAT OBAMA DID NOT GIVE HIMSELF ENOUGH OF A CHANCE TO HAVE CHALLENGED ROMNEY EFFECTIVELY.

    AND LEHRER WAS A DEER CAUGHT IN THE HEADLIGHTS–WHICH ALSO ENABLED OBAMA’S LOSS.

    • StilllHere

      Blame the moderator, how pathetic.

      Obama couldn’t muster a cogent point because he is a complete idiot and all America now understands that.  Without a teleprompter feeding him lines, he is incapable of putting two sensible words together.

      Your president is a disaster.

  • http://www.facebook.com/steve.collins.712161 Steve Collins

    So now that Mitt “won” the debate, he shouldn’t be concerned about releasing those tax returns.

  • JGC

    I am not going to blame anyone for the perception of Obama after this debate except for Obama.  He was no doubt presented with several ways to conduct himself in the first debate, and to prepare for that. He was the one who made the strategic decision to have a subdued demeanor and not aggressively attack Romney on points. He was the guy who was proud to have made all the high stakes gambles on things like bailing out the auto industry and bailing out the TBTF banks. That being said, it is time to dredge up the carcass of Osama bin Laden off the ocean floor and kill him all over again. 

    • StilllHere

      I think it was more likely the drugs he took that or incompetence.  In any case, the guy has shown himself to be an empty suit, or chair, that has been out of his league for 4 years.

  • http://hammernews.com/ hammermann

    COMING OUT SLEEPING

    Oct 3 11pm EST

    Astoundingly weak performance by Obama-
    he acted relaxed, conciliatory, and never challenged one Romney lie
    directly. This is the hazard of believing polls that say you’re
    ahead. Again and again Obama returned to his appeaser consensus
    persona that won him so much scorn from Congress and sank much of his
    agenda during his honeymoon and Dem majority, due to I think, his upbringing in the violent racist world of Hawaii, where making peace is a survival skill (spent 3 years there). When he said Romney +
    him believe the same thing on Social Security, I about hit the floor.
    HOW ABOUT RYAN? He didn’t even mention the extremist Veep candidate
    and his vision of a pay as you go Darwinian world where people will
    die like flies. He allowed the Mittwitt to say 10 times “$700 bill
    cut to Medicare” without saying SAVINGS AREN’T CUTS- they are
    SAVINGS!!! THEY ARE THE OPPOSITE. Or say “Nonsense” when
    Romney said he wouldn’t raise taxes one bit because his tax cuts
    would be made up in magic savings, or at least imply Romney really
    only cares about the rich, which his every proposal benefits. They
    acted like respectful college debaters, and Obama took constant
    attacks (on green energy, Medicare “cuts”, on vast increase in
    unemployed and food stamp recipients) without leveling any solid
    counterpunches. Nothing about the 1%, 99%, Mitt’s silver spoon
    origin, cold heartless policies, Mitt’s terrible record in Mass,
    Romney plan same stupidity as Reagan plan: “cut taxes, boost
    defense, and balance the budget”.

    If he does as poorly in future debates,
    he could lose.  For over a year Romney’s been calling BO a failure
    whose every move is a disaster, and Obama never called him or
    punished him for it; didn’t even enumerate his successes.

    But Romney couldn’t restrain the
    self-satisfied pained smile-smirk (smilk) that looked creepy +
    adolescent. 

    Oct 4 11am EST Obama’s lame
    performance was typified by his laughing agreeable reaction to
    Romoney’s calling him a liar, when in fact Romney’s
    blatant outrageous lies went unchallenged: that Obama doubled the
    national deficit (actually less than when he took office- $1.1 tril
    now), that he gave $90 bil to green energy (actually ~$25 bil), that
    ACA is a government takeover of Medicare, that capping deductions at
    $17,000 will magically pay for his $5 tril tax cut, which he
    repeatedly dishonestly denied was $5 tril.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/04/us/politics/a-closer-look-at-what-the-presidential-candidates-said-in-the-debate.html?

    I will not reduce the share paid by
    high-income individuals,” Mr. Romney said to Mr. Obama, describing
    his plan to cut tax rates by 20 percent. “I know that you and your
    running mate keep saying that, .. but it’s just not the case. Look,
    I’ve got five boys. I’m used to people saying something that’s
    not always true, but just keep on repeating it, and ultimately hoping
    I’ll believe it.” SHARE, no, but of course 70% of the
    benefits of a flat tax cut will accrue to the top 2%, income is so
    unequal now.

    Romney is simply the most smooth and professional liar I’ve ever seen.
    http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/10/04/958801/at-last-nights-debate-romney-told-27-myths-in-38-minutes/#more-958801

    Obama, as I said before, had to simply
    nail down one egregious lie and pound Romney on it until he conceded
    or broke down into some nasty jn. high snide comeback. Man, his
    advisers on this were pitiful- if he played this right, he could have put Romney away. Kerry kicked ass in
    his debates, but didn’t help enough- the Swift Boat scumbags had
    done their work. (Obama has these too- Special Forces Crossroads
    guys that probably will launch big attack this month). For Obama, he
    should have attacked Romney’s HYSTERICAL response to the Libyan
    attack- a word that has great power, making Romney seems weak and
    womanly, and makes it hard for him to attack too intensely, lest he
    reinforce it.

    5 questions that should have been
    asked:

    http://thinkprogress.org/election/2012/10/03/939921/5-questions-that-should-be-asked-at-the-presidential-debate-but-probably-wont-be/

     http://hammernews.com

  • gonkers

    The GOP’s crazed war on fiscal common sense continues with Romney.

    With revenues in constant dollars being BELOW Clinton’s last year now for 10 of the past 12 years… and with 10 TRILLION more debt than we had in 2001… the GOP is actually telling the nation there is no revenue problem… everything’s a spending problem. 

    • gonkers

      I believe the US two-party political system is rather braindead. Viewpoints that don’t make it through the ideological filters of the two parties just are not discussed.

      But I fear there’s a bigger problem here: it’s that one of the two parties has gone insane.

      Some 30 years ago the far Right began a strategy of Starve the Beast: an attempt to undermine the New Deal and Great Society safety net programs by creating massive debt. This REQUIRED that the True Believers in the GOP give up on old fashioned fiscal responsibility. It’s taken 30 years but the propaganda of the Orwellian Right has paid off.

      The GOP is not just in denial about the fiscal mess they’ve made with irresponsible tax cuts and spending. They are also in denial about the second box they’ve let themselves be trapped in: the no new tax pledge.

      The Constitution has few purposes… and they are spelled out in the Preamble. One is to promote the General Welfare. Article 1 gives Congress the power to TAX to provide for the general welfare.

      What the no new tax pledge does is place Republicans in a bind between two pledges… one to the Constitution, the other to Grover Norquist.

      These Republicans have chosen Norquist over the Constitution.

      To rationalize away the fiscal irresponsibility inherent in Starve The Beast… as well as the treasonous neglect of their responsibilities under the Constitution, the Republicans have warped reality to the point they deny revenues play ANY part in a balanced budget. Even with depressed revenues since 2001 they deny that poses ANY problem. It’s all spending, they say… and with those massive deficits and debt… they are going in for the kill. 

      With Romney we see culmination of Starve the Beast and the No New Tax trap: the GOP has sabotaged its own intellect as well as that of their True Believers to the point the party has become functionally insane. They are to the point Orwell talked about… they can actually believe two opposite ideas are true. In this case it’s LESS revenue = a revenue boom.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/GQPTYQWQ6TS3LBWCEBYBLBYH44 susanne

    When I listened to Mr. Romney during the debate, I experienced words that were meaningless and empty, no matter what he said for the words were not true. I don’t know why it was not obvious to all!?

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Pray tell susanne what wasn’t true in Romney’s presentation?  I heard passion and belief in a course for the nation.  You may disagree with that direction but there was nothing dishonest. 

      I believe that is why the President had so much difficulty last night.

      I have a list of 8 whoppers that the President told.  Are you interested?

      • gonkers

        Romney was blatantly dishonest when he claimed he’d cover all those pre-existing conditions. He neglected to say those with pre-existing condition who do NOT now have health insurance would be be left WITHOUT coverage.

        What an ass. While governor he KNEW that universal coverage was the ONLY way to cover those with pre-existing conditions. That’s the way RomneyCare is set up.

        He also pretended on 60 Minutes that everyone had medical coverage because they could just go into the ER and be treated. Leaving aside the matter of there being NO free follow-up care… this is the most expensive treatment out there… something Romney wanted to avoid with RomneyCare.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          No, I don’t think your giving the Governor a fair shake. He has plans for risk pools and other ways for folks to get coverage.  You can read about it on his website for what it is worth.

          Also,  Obamacare promised ‘universal’ coverage of the 47 million American’s uninsured and now we find out that 10 years after the law is implemented 30 million Americans will still have no coverage under Obamacare.  So why are we spending $trillions?

          • gonkers

            How many of those alleged 30 million are being deprived of coverage because GOP states are refusing to cooperate with the Feds in implementing ObamaCare?

            BTW I’m a Single Payer guy. I consider both RomneyCare and ObamaCare to be corporate welfare for parasitic health insurance companies.

    • StilllHere

      I didn’t get that at all.  But I did get the impression that Obama doesn’t care about America or its citizens especially those in most need like the unemployed.  He doesn’t care how many people his policies have put on food stamps.  He’s more concerned about meeting with celebrities and playing golf.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/GQPTYQWQ6TS3LBWCEBYBLBYH44 susanne

    The whole US election process is embarrassing!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000233551222 Michael McHone

    Obama got thrown, because for 18 mos Romney has been preaching Reaganomics give the rich a bigger tax cut, and they will feel so happy they will give back in the form of  jobs.
    Then at the debate he did a 180 and said he would not cut their taxes, only lower the rate but offset this by closing loopholes, thus they would pay the same tax, now that doesn’t make sense, but he ran with it.  Obama did not seem to have a comeback, because he was expecting the same Romney rhetoric. When Romney changed his wording, it seemd Obama’s statements about his plan were now null and void because out of one side his mouth he said, no tax cuts for the rich, and out of the other side of his mouth he said we will grow the economy but giving tax cuts to the rich. 

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Memo to Michael:

      I don’t know where you get your information but Romney released the details of his tax plan 2/23/2012. Last I checked that wasn’t 18 months ago.

      Everything he said last night was in his original plan and what he has been telling voters since that day.  Mr. Romney has been very consistent.

      You (and apparently President Obama) are having difficulty reconciling Romney’s plan vs. the spin about his plan put out by both Axelrod and left wing sites like Think Progress.

      Obama needs new advisers or needs to his own research because he was put off guard because he was given faulty information going into the debate.

    • StilllHere

      Obama didn’t do his homework.  He was unprepared and frankly seemed on something, what with the constant smirk then dejected then aloof then sleepy then angry looks.  I think whatever he took was some bad stuff.  He needs a new supplier.

  • OnPointComments

    I’ve heard a myriad of excuses for President Obama’s poor performance on the news shows tonight, from climate change (it was altitude) to being too concerned about Syria.  The most interesting reason I’ve read is “Report: National magazine preparing “blockbuster” scandal story on Obama campaign donations:  According to knowlegable sources, a national magazine and a national web site are preparing a blockbuster donor scandal story.  Sources told Secrets that the Obama campaign has been trying to block the story. But a key source said it plans to publish the story Friday or, more likely, Monday.  According to the sources, a taxpayer watchdog group conducted a nine-month investigation into presidential and congressional fundraising and has uncovered thousands of cases of credit card solicitations and donations to Obama and Capitol Hill, allegedly from unsecure accounts, and many from overseas. That might be a violation of federal election laws.”
     
    http://hotair.com/archives/2012/10/04/report-national-magazine-preparing-blockbuster-scandal-story-on-obama-campaign-donations/?fb_action_ids=3765542184953&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582

  • SpunkyTeacher

    Unfortunately, much of the American public pays more attention to the sizzle than the steak.  I agree that Mitt Romney was the more fluid, energized speaker in the debate–but was anyone listening to WHAT he was saying, rather than HOW he was saying it?  He wants to hand over health care administration to the states???  Really???  That might work in Massachusetts or New York, or even Virginia–due to Northern Virginia and Tidewater–but what about Louisiana and Mississippi?  Without federal oversight, the people of many states would be without health care entirely and vulnerable to corruption.  Today’s news about medicare fraud in Texas and other states is an example of how well the states handle health care!  I’m sure Romney did prepare well for the debate–while the President was busy doing more important things like running the country.  I’d still like to hear some Republicans take responsibility for the mess our country was in when Obama took office; our current President took the brunt of the abuse for a CRISIS situation that he did not create.  Incidentally, the latest figures I hear on NPR about the economy state that there are modest gains in both the housing market and business; my house tax assessment shows that the value of our home is higher now than in 2008– so Obama must be doing something right.  Mitt Romney is good at manipulating and over-simplifying complex issues–campaign fodder–but is the American public smart enough to see the truth?

    • StilllHere

      Sizzle than steak, this is exactly how Obama got elected.  But 4 years of dismal economic performance combined with Wednesday night’s embarrassing disaster have the country focused on the steak finally again.

      Meeting with Beyonce & JZ and appearing on The View, this is what your president has been so “busy” doing.

    • Government_Banking_Serf

      Yeah those stupid Loiuisianan’s and Misssisspians.  

      Instead of demanding Rule of Law to allow functioning markets they prefer to be taken care of by Daddy Washington.  

      Funny that back room insurance company deals are ok for Washingtonians like Obama, but used as an excuse against states.

      You do realize once the corruption has set in at the Federal level, and we have spurned the State’s right, experimental laboratory concept, we have nowhere else to turn?

      We have to take the good with the bad, the fast with the slow. Not everybody can be the omniscient elites that New Yorkers and Californians pretend to be.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000233551222 Michael McHone

    Good thing Romney isn’t president yet, we still have funding for PBS, to make this venue possible!

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Memo to Michael — PBS will be just fine.

      Do you ever have to make tradeoffs in your life and budgets?  Yes, we all do.  The Feds have not.

      Check out YOUR share of the current debt and unfunded entitlement liabilities and then get back to us.

      http://www.usdebtclock.org/

      • gonkers

         Yup… the GOP gets hysterical about PBS and NPR which together cost… perhaps 1-2 billion a year. But they are utterly SILENT about pissing away 450 BILLION on interest in FY11 alone… money that buys the American People NOTHING.

        This proves the GOP has NO fiscal common sense and all their complaints about spending are as POLITICAL as they are hypocritical.

        • StilllHere

          It’s Obama’s budget and lack of leadership.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

     There are some dirty secrets of Obamacare.

    Like:
    • Americans know that ObamaCare requires insurance companies to allow
    families to keep adult children up to age 26 on their parents’ policy.
    They are less likely to know that the provision increased the average
    family premium—even for families that didn’t add adult dependents—by
    $150-$450 in 2011.

    • Young workers who buy their own insurance will see a 19%-30% increase in premiums as a result of ObamaCare.

    Read more at:

    http://healthreformquestions.com/

    • gonkers

       Do you ever have ANY sources that are not far right front groups?

      • WorriedfortheCountry

         Attack the messenger when the facts are inconvenient.

        • gonkers

          Mt point is your sources usually have no facts… they are bogus front groups that… say, put out a phony health care poll which then is reported by the right wing echo machine as a real poll… and then you post it here as a credible story when it’s just propaganda.

          Your bogus Health Care Coalition is nothing but a front for a Repeal ObamaCare group:

          http://therepealpledge.com/

          So I ask AGAIN… so you have ANY sources that are not right wing wacko groups?

          Didn’t think so.

          • StilllHere

            Then produce your own facts from your own bogus front groups.  If you can’t, and in this case it appears you can’t, then his facts stand.

          • MordecaiCarroll

            Wow – that is a seriously weak rebuttal, StillHere

          • Steve__T

             That made absolutely no sense.

          • StilllHere

            You’ve shown the English language is a challenge for you, I’m not surprised.

          • gonkers

             I wasn’t making any points about health care… was I Einstein? In that case I DO have the right to point out that W has a long history of giving us far right propaganda and presenting it as objective news.

          • StilllHere

            You never have any point, nor facts.

        • bsorcs

          Remember Ben Franklin.  “Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.”  Get the facts; verify that they are correct; decide and live with the decision. 

          You are, indeed, a remarkable poster.  Are you perhaps paid by a superpac?

    • jefe68

      I think you get the award for posting the most, but with the least to say.

      • Gregg Smith

        I encourage folks to expand your profile and read your activity. Nothing but hate, no substance at all as you chide on.

  • JONBOSTON

    Jon Meacham should have asked , “Was that the real Obama”, rather than “Was that the real Romney”. For those of us who post here and don’t drink the Kool-aid , the answer is a resounding “Yes”. Obama was finally exposed as an utter incompetent and complete failure as President. Once you get beyond his lies, distortions and misrepresentations, class warfare, pandering ,demagoguery,character assassinations, and incoherent and misguided policies, the man is nothing more than an empty suit that the pathetic mainstream media has shielded these past 4 years. Now that he’s been exposed , I can just imagine what his Chicago slime machine will be drumming up next.

  • StilllHere

    We saw two visions of America at the debate.  One of leadership and one of stammering, smirking and ignorance.

    • MordecaiCarroll

      What I saw in the debate was Romney smiling as he lied dozens of times.  He seems very comfortable lying to the American public.  I find that disturbing.

      During the debate, Etch a Sketch acted as if the 4.8 trillion dollar tax cut plan he had been campaigning on for months and months never never existed.  He disowned it and said that’s not my plan. Just like that, lessthan 40 days before the election. What is his plan now?  Do we know?   Does he even know what it is?  Romney forever has his finger in the air, testing the winds of political expedience, and saying whatever he thinks will gain him an advantage with the audience in front of him.

      Electing Romney would be like electing a cipher. The man has no core.

      • Government_Banking_Serf

        Frustrated? That’s what happens when you start to actually believe the knee-jerk oversimplifications and mischaracterizations based on your own partisan projections, and then are forced to realize their is another angle.

        • MordecaiCarroll

          Unsurprisingly, you didn’t address the Romney’s flipflop on his 4.8 trillion dollar tax cut.  Numerous factcheckers have agreed with Obama’s characterization of Romney’s plan as 4.8 trillion dollar tax cut, but now that Etch a Sketch is in a general election, he’s seen fit to switch courses yet again, flipping and flopping in a way that he can’t be pinned down on any details at all.

          Romney also lied/misled during the debate about green jobs (his campaign admitted the next day that Romney’s claim that 50% of the firms that Obama invested in went bankrupt was wrong – it was 3 out of 26).  Romney campaign aide Eric Fehrnstrom also admitted that Romney’s claim during the debate about the Romney health plan  covering people with preexisting conditions wasn’t entirely true.  People without continuous coverage could be left to fend for themselves if they had a preexisting condition.

          There are numerous other documented lies/misleadiing statements that Romney made during the debate.  If you want to bask in the glory of a debate win by a guy who lied/misled the American public convincingly, be my guest.  I’m not impressed by flim flam artists like Romney.

  • Inquirer7

    Who remember the amazing speech given by U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders on Dec. 2, 2010 and who can find a connection with our present economic situation and Mitt Romney? Watch it again and try to think: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq1zpHF0J04

  • SouthernPhD

    When will Romney stop lying about Obama’s supposed slashing of MEDICARE?  Enormous numbers of fact-checks have proven that Obama has proposed ways of saving the money through stopping waste and fraud, not reducing benefits.  Stopping waste and fraud is something that Romney himself often proposes–reducing payments to doctors and hospitals who gouge the system really could reduce costs enormously.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       The true answer is somewhere in the middle.

      Romney made good points that if you squeeze the hospitals then services WILL be cut. Will services be cut $700B?  No but it will be a significant cut.

      The other point that is in Romney’s favor is Obama uses half of these ‘savings’ to fund Obamacare.  That is a fact.

    • TinaWrites

      And yet, so many of the pundits, even on the liberal stations, kept talking about how Presidential Romney looked and sounded.  In my opinion, every other sentence out of the mouths of the pundits should have been “that Romney looked Presidential even tho he lied, even lying about issues that have been fact-checked repeatedly by several different organizations!”  

      What kind of monstrously superficial nation have we become?  This is, in large measure, the legacy of our television culture.  But shouldn’t we be prepared to be alert to the pitfalls of such a culture, including judging people and policies by the wrong set of values??!!!

      It was weird that Romney chided the President for supposedly doing what his five sons do when they repeat the same lie over and over, hoping that their dad will soon find the lie to be true.  It is Romney and the Republicans who have been shamelessly practicing this thruout the entire campaign!  And, for Romney to propose that the adult President of the United States is like his sons was insultingly infanticizing/infantalizing (can’t find the exact word in the dictionary)!

      I do love this show and these comment pages because there is everyday more wisdom and thoughtfulness  than I find in the rest of the media! 

  • Danyail Hayko

    Obama also did a lovely job smiling while he lied through his teeth about cutting the coal industry. He has closed several mines in west Virginia that has put a dent in many rock businesses with workers that need to bring their family home the bacon. If you really think Obama was the right choice think again. Some one please illustrate to me how its OK for a working class man to pay for his health care and some one elses. They also did a fact check on Obama during the debate and this not being bias at all he lied on more subjects then Romney and Obama has a record to prove it

ONPOINT
TODAY
Apr 18, 2014
Russian President Vladimir Putin speaks during a nationally televised question-and-answer session in Moscow on Thursday, April 17, 2014. President Vladimir Putin has urged an end to the blockade of Moldova’s separatist province of Trans-Dniester. Trans-Dniester, located in eastern part of Moldova on border with Ukraine, has run its own affairs without international recognition since a 1992 war. Russian troops are stationed there.  (AP)

Deadly clashes in Eastern Ukraine. A white supremacist rocks Kansas City. The Marathon bombing anniversary. And Bloomberg on guns. Our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

Apr 18, 2014
This undated photo provided by NASA on April 2, 2014 shows Saturn's moon Enceladus. The "tiger stripes" are long fractures from which water vapor jets are emitted. Scientists have uncovered a vast ocean beneath the icy surface of the moon, they announced Thursday, April 3, 2014. Italian and American researchers made the discovery using Cassini, a NASA-European spacecraft still exploring Saturn and its rings 17 years after its launch from Cape Canaveral. (AP)

Oceans in Space. The new discovery on a moon of Saturn, and the possibility of life there.

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Apr 18, 2014
This undated photo provided by NASA on April 2, 2014 shows Saturn's moon Enceladus. The "tiger stripes" are long fractures from which water vapor jets are emitted. Scientists have uncovered a vast ocean beneath the icy surface of the moon, they announced Thursday, April 3, 2014. Italian and American researchers made the discovery using Cassini, a NASA-European spacecraft still exploring Saturn and its rings 17 years after its launch from Cape Canaveral. (AP)

Oceans in Space. The new discovery on a moon of Saturn, and the possibility of life there.

 
Apr 18, 2014
Russian President Vladimir Putin speaks during a nationally televised question-and-answer session in Moscow on Thursday, April 17, 2014. President Vladimir Putin has urged an end to the blockade of Moldova’s separatist province of Trans-Dniester. Trans-Dniester, located in eastern part of Moldova on border with Ukraine, has run its own affairs without international recognition since a 1992 war. Russian troops are stationed there.  (AP)

Deadly clashes in Eastern Ukraine. A white supremacist rocks Kansas City. The Marathon bombing anniversary. And Bloomberg on guns. Our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

On Point Blog
On Point Blog
The Week In Seven Soundbites: April 18, 2014
Friday, Apr 18, 2014

Holy week with an unholy shooter. South Koreans scramble to save hundreds. Putin plays to the crowd in questioning. Seven days gave us seven sounds.

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Our Week In The Web: April 18, 2014
Friday, Apr 18, 2014

Space moon oceans, Gabriel García Márquez and the problems with depressing weeks in the news. Also: important / unnecessary infographics that help explain everyone’s favorite 1980′s power ballad.

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Some Tools And Tricks For College Financial Aid
Thursday, Apr 17, 2014

Some helpful links and tools for navigating FAFSA and other college financial aid tools.

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