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Week In The News: Campaign Heats Up, Bibi’s Red Line, NFL Refs

Obama, Romney slug it out.  Free speech and faith at the U.N.  NFL refs go back to work. Our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel shows an illustration as he describes his concerns over Iran's nuclear ambitions during his address to the 67th session of the United Nations General Assembly at U.N. headquarters Thursday, Sept. 27, 2012.(AP)

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel shows an illustration as he describes his concerns over Iran’s nuclear ambitions during his address to the 67th session of the United Nations General Assembly at U.N. headquarters Thursday, Sept. 27, 2012.(AP)

Slugfest in the swing states now.  Polls show Obama besting Romney this week in Ohio, beyond.  But Romney’s got questions.  About even worse –than-thought economic growth.  About White House backpedalling on what happened in Benghazi.  About how a second Obama term would be different.

At the U.N. this week, talk of free speech and red lines on Iran.  In China, riot where iPhones are made.  In Europe, mayhem in the streets over austerity.  We’ve got refapalooza in the NFL – uproar and the pros are back.

This hour, On Point:  our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

-Tom Ashbrook

Guests

Laura Meckler, White House correspondent for the Wall Street Journal.

David Sanger, chief Washington correspondent for the New York Times

Jack BeattyOn Point news analyst.

From Tom’s Reading List

New York Times “It began with a series of polls from The New York Times, CBS News and Quinnipiac University, released early Wednesday morning, which gave President Obama leads of between 9 and 11 points in Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania. Later in the day, Mr. Romney got polls showing unfavorable numbers for him in Colorado and Iowa.”

The Weekly Standard “Several other data points, however, help us resolve this question.  There is considerable contemporaneous reporting that demonstrates the Obama administration knew long before it said so publicly that the attacks were planned and likely the work of al Qaeda-related terrorists.”

Project Syndicate “The anti-Japan protests that continue to roil China are just another indication of the rise of a potent Chinese nationalism. After a century slowly fomenting among Chinese intellectuals, national sentiment has captured and redefined the consciousness of the Chinese people during the last two decades of China’s economic boom. This mass national consciousness launched the Chinese colossus into global competition to achieve an international status commensurate with the country’s vast capacities and the Chinese people’s conception of their country’s rightful place in the world.”

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  • Mouse_2012

    I’m sure after  Bib E. Coyote antics at the U.N. the U.S. press with be calling his speech 

    “flame-throwing” “rambling” “lambasting ” “truly bizarre”

    Someone actually told him it was a good idea to mimic the looney toons?

    Will Onpoint finally call him a right-wing nut job? Bib E. Coyote did hit the 4 keynotes above

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      All I could think of was protecting myself with Acme’s Little Umbrella, or the evasion ability of their Rocket Powered Rollerskates.

      • DrewInGeorgia

        Beep Beep!

  • Mouse_2012

    Check out what the 972 did for Bib E. Coyote, one even has the angry birds Photoshop in.

    http://972mag.com/bibis-acme-bomb-at-unga-inspires-israeli-meme-artists/56636/

    Can’t believe how dumb he thinks Americans are. 

  • Mouse_2012
  • Mouse_2012
  • Mouse_2012
  • Mouse_2012

    woohoo,

     the NFL getting it’s non footlocker Refs back

  • Michiganjf

    Hey!

    Republicans finally found a way to move voter fraud from fantasy to true life!

    Way to create your own reality yet again, “Pubbies,” through sheer will power!

    http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/27/14126789-rnc-cuts-ties-with-firm-over-voter-fraud-allegations?lite

    • Mouse_2012

      Republican found voter fraud?(just so happens to be other republicans doing it)

      • AF_Whigs

        Hey, proof is proof.

    • John_in_Amherst
    • Don_B1

      The place where voter fraud, with these Republican exceptions, really occurs is with absentee ballots (think people trolling nursing homes for demented patients, etc.) and it turns out they are largely Republican fraudsters.

  • jacob_arnon

    972 are a bunch of far left loonies who empower antisemites like mickey mouse. 

    • Mouse_2012

      sticks and stones dear supremacist

      • jacob_arnon

        Mouse Like David Duke denies being antisemitic, but the truth is in his posting. Anyone who supports Hamas and Hezbollah isn’t a philosemitic. 

        • Mouse_2012

          Yawn….

          Antisemitc card no longer works.It’s play out. besides your slanderous claim I support Hamas or Hezbollah seems you already loss. 

          Speaking of 

          “As far as Zionism is concerned, the founder of Zionism and apostate, Theodor Herzl,  sought to intensify hatred of the Jew in order to enhance the cause of political Zionism. Here are some of his “pearls”:

          “It is essential that the sufferings of Jews. . . become worse. . . this will assist in realization of our plans. . .I have an excellent idea. . . I shall induce anti-semites to liquidate Jewish wealth. . . The anti-semites will assist us thereby in that they will strengthen the persecution and oppression of Jews.  The anti-semites shall be our best friends”. (From his Diary, Part I, pp. 16)”

          http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/zanda.cfm

        • Don_B1

          Since Arabs are Semites, why not?

          • jacob_arnon

            Arabs speak a Semitic language just as Jews do, but antisemitism refers to hatred of Jews not Arabs as the WW2 Mufti of Jerusalem who spent the war years in Berlin knew very well. 

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

          A “David Duke” comparison?

          Hey, can anyone else tell me if that falls into Godwin’s Law territory?

          • jacob_arnon

            You can come up with any foolish “law” you wish but you can’t ignore the fact that some of your views dealing with Jews are similar to those of David Duke.  Live with that.

      • jacob_arnon

        sticks in your craw doesn’t it, mouse pro Islamic supremacist.  

    • Mouse_2012

      Q: How many Zionists does it take to screw in a light bulb?
      A: One to change the bulb and 7.8 million to accuse Edison, GE, tungsten and electricity of being anti-Semitic.
      Q: What is the difference between a Zionist and a professional criminal? A: A professional criminal doesn’t make up excuses for things he denies doing.

  • Mouse_2012

    Bib E. Coyote is seeking the aid of Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, spiritual leader of Shas
    Report: Netanyahu Pressuring Rabbi Yosef to Support Iran Strike
    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israeli-defense-officials-consult-with-rabbi-ovadia-yosef-over-iran-strike-1.459547

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/159099#.UGUqfU1ZWfY

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11127409

    Who calls on Jews to pray for annihilation of Iran

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/shas-spiritual-leader-calls-on-jews-to-pray-for-annihilation-of-iran-1.460765

    who endorsed  (The King’s Torah) in which he writes that it is permissible for Jews to kill non-Jews (including children) who threaten Israel.[1][2]The conditions under which this permission applies include presence of the assumption that a child will grow up to become an enemy of the Jewish people

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovadia_Yosef

    one of jacob’s people no doubt. 

  • jacob_arnon

    http://www.adl.org/main_International_Affairs/ahmadinejad_words.htm 

    “Iran’s President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in his Own Words”

    “”Why is it that world leaders are still sensitive to and emphasize the Holocaust? Politicians normally don’t pay significant attention to history and the past. The reason for the sensitivities is that the Holocaust is the excuse for the establishment of the Zionist regime, and is an active agent [used] in the political environment. The Zionist regime relies on the Holocaust and if it’s take away from the regime, the philosophy of its existence disappears and all politics in the international arena which where were based on it will come undone.”

    Yes, this would include the United Nations.

    • Mouse_2012

      The ADL is no longer reliable source of anything and protects the racist and bigots in Israel 

      The Anti-Defamation League: Covering Up Jewish Racism and Israeli War Crimes For Nearly A Century

      http://thebilzerianreport.com/?p=1134

      When The ADL Gave White Nationalism A Free Pass, Did “Pro-Israel” Politics Play A Role?

      With the Cordoba House controversy, the mainstream press hassuddenly discovered that the Anti-Defamation League is more than willing to give sanction to bigotry. But the ADL has a long history of allowing cynical political calculations to trump its professed concerns about racism.

      http://maxblumenthal.com/2010/08/when-the-adl-gave-white-nationalism-a-free-pass-did-pro-israel-considerations-come-into-play/

      by Peter Beinart

      http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/05/25/silence-revisited.html

       But the ADL’s statement also contained this bizarre equivalency: “We are seriously concerned about the growing tensions in Israel over the issue of African migrants, and reports of lawlessness and violence committed by and directed against the migrants. We call on all parties to work to calm the tensions.” Lawlessness and violence committed by African migrants? Yes, there have been reports of rape by African refugees, and newspaper reports certainly suggest that Jewish demonstrators feel the migrants have made their neighborhood less safe. But reading the ADL statement, one might assume that what happened Wednesday night was a brawl between Jewish and African gangs, not an anti-African riot incited by Knesset members against a largely defenseless population. 

      • jacob_arnon

        I wouldn’t expect antisemites like Mouse to accept the fact that they are Jew haters. 

        Even the vilest of Jew haters always blamed the Jews for their views.  

      • jacob_arnon

        “The ADL is no longer reliable source of anything and protects the racist and bigots in Israel…”

        Jew haters like you have been saying since the ADL was founded but we are still here. 

        As for racists and bigots nothing beats the Arab racists of Hamas and Hezbollah who are pledged to kill all the Jews at least in the middle east. 

        Read their charter slimy Jew hater. 

  • Ed75

    The polls that came out this week apparently are not entirely reliable, they assume the turnout of 2008, which was an anomaly.

    Wow, the Ahmadinejad statement below is nuts.

    We sadly seem to be facing possible war in many areas. Mary told the children at Fatima ‘War is a punishment for sin’. And we’re involved in serious sin in this country, by policy. And we seem to want to go headlong in that direction.

    • NewtonWhale

      Why pollsters don’t ‘weight’ surveys for Dem-GOP mix

      As polls in swing states continue to roll in with mostly negative results for Mitt Romney, some Republicans have declared that the surveys are bogus because they sample too many Democrats.

      Professional pollsters generally have defended the polls and a methodology that frequently “weights” the survey results to make sure they represent the voting population for several factors — such as race, income, gender and educational level — but not for party identification.They say that to lock in party makeup in the 2012 contest based on what it was in 2008 or 2010 could mean missing the shifting sentiments among the electorate about the Republicans and Democrats.

      “Party ID is not a demographic quality like age, sex, income or education. It’s an attitude,” said Andrew Kohut,  president of the Pew Research Center. “And it’s an attitude that varies with preferences, so generally when a Republican wins you will see a boost in Republican identification and when a Democrat wins you will see a boost in Democratic identification. If you try to standardize the party ID number, you standardize out some of that change.”

      “There are more people who want to identify with the Democratic Party right now than the Republican Party,” Schwartz said.

      http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-pollsters-weight-surveys-20120927,0,5276434.story

      • WorriedfortheCountry

         What is interesting about the Fox poll is the turnout model assumes 85% Dem turnout and 78% GOP turnout.

        Anyone believe that — with a President who is worse than Carter?

      • Mouse_2012

        Republicans did the same thing with fact checkers starting showing Republican tend to lie more. One recently denounced the fact checkers than ran a Ad against his opposites quoting the same fact checkers.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           When the fact checkers call out Paul Ryan’s convention speech as “FALSE” when all he did was correctly quote Obama you know they are in the bag.

          btw – The fact checkers parroted the identical argument that appeared almost simultaneously on several liberal blogs a few minutes after his speech — TNR, TPM and Slate.

          • Don_B1

            When everyone is agreeing that someone who said that 2+2=7 is wrong, why would you assume they all followed each other instead of just knowing or looking up the FACT that 2+2=4?

            Denis was right when he said he was worried about your ability to think critically, but this goes well beyond that, to your ability to think beyond your ideology.

    • MrNutso

      Romney can’t possibly be being beat this badly, so the polls must be wrong.  Or, our polls show Romney winning, so Obama must have stolen the election.  Either way, Obama will again not be a legitimate President, so there’s no need to work with him.

      • AF_Whigs

        Wait, Obama stole the election now?  I know W did, but Obama, too?  Wow, someone should tie these elections down!

  • NewtonWhale

    Arithmetic: Romney proves that Obama has 50 times more empathy‏

    “Don’t forget,” Romney said, “I got everybody in my state insured. One hundred percent of the kids in our state had health insurance. I don’t think there’s anything that shows more empathy and care about the people of this country than that kind of record.”

    http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/107827/romney-empathy-health-care-families-usa-gruber-million-uninsured-tax-credit

    • hennorama

      My view is that Mr. Romney’s candidacy and campaign are the embodiment of the Peter Principle.  Romney has simply been promoted one level above his competence.

      The entire Republican primary field was laughably weak, and Mr. Romney emerged as the best of the worst, the “cleanest dirty shirt” if you will.

      The fact that one Republican after another led during the primaries demonstrates how little Republicans actually WANT Romney as their leader.  Polls have been indicating that a Republican vote for Mr. Romney is more of a vote against Pres. Obama than it is FOR Mr. Romney.  Not exactly a great sign or a ringing endorsement.  And we are seeing more and more Republicans criticizing Mr. Romney, and a good deal of CYA behavior in advance of election results.

      The rats are fleeing the sinking ship.

  • NewtonWhale

    Arithmetic: Romney proves that Obama has 50 times more empathy‏

    “Don’t forget,” Romney said, “I got everybody in my state insured. One hundred percent of the kids in our state had health insurance. I don’t think there’s anything that shows more empathy and care about the people of this country than that kind of record.”

    http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/107827/romney-empathy-health-care-families-usa-gruber-million-uninsured-tax-credit

    • John_in_Amherst

      And now Romney is running on a platform that would abolish his gesture of empathy?  What is with this guy?  Amnesia? Alzheimer’s? Severe cognitive dissonance?

      • Don_B1

        I think Romney thought he would be able to “move to the center” after he “won” the primaries, but every time he even HINTED about using the etch-a-sketch, the right wing pushed back strongly. This occurred even as recently as when his spokeswoman said that the man, who’s wife died of cancer after Bain “dissolved” the company where he worked, would have been covered if they had lived in Massachusetts.

        Maybe it is beginning to penetrate that the right-wing message is NOT selling among the broader (and particularly independent) electorate. But maybe not among the conservative trolls on this site, at least not yet. See:

        http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/27/not-the-election-they-were-expecting/

    • Don_B1

      And within an hour or two Romney had reiterated his pledge to undo Obama’s achievement of translating Romneycare to the country where it would do the same for the rest of the country.

      So he again repudiated his “empathy” and said he would consign the country to the diminishing ability of affording healthcare it had been on until Obamacare was passed.

  • JGC

    If I was an advisor on the Romney team, I would tell him to not ask voters if they are better off today than four years ago. First, being Reagan’s original line, it only reminds everyone of what a great campaigner and warm personality was Ronald Reagan, and of the severe deficits that Romney possesses in this area.  And second, people are not wanting to look back four years ago; they want to know where they will be four years forward.  

    • Jasoturner

      Beyond that, four years ago I knew many people who were literally afraid that their companies, and maybe the whole damn economy, was on the brink of going belly up.  At least now there is a feeling of returning stability, if not go-go growth.  I know I sleep better at night now than I did back then…

      • StilllHere

        Really the unemployment rate is higher and so are the number of unemployed.  The Obama recovery is pathetic because he is conducting a war on business.

        • Gregg Smith

          What Obama recovery?

          • jefe68

            More Friday morning trolling by the dynamic duo.

          • Gregg Smith

            They just revised last quarter’s GDP down from a pitiful 1.7% to 1.3%. It was a serious question. Do you ever have anything of substance to offer?

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Don’t exagerate.  It was 1.25%.  CNN rounded it up to 1.3%.
             

          • Gregg Smith

            My bad. 

          • Mouse_2012

            I think Fridays is when Jerry comes on to display rightwing talking points. 

        • Jasoturner

          Government employment is down, private sector employment is up.  If you are a conservative, you are living the dream…

          • JGC

            Just saw your comment.  I agree.

        • JGC

          I think the private sector jobs have more than recovered, overall, since 2008.  It’s the public job sector that is suffering, which should probably give you some comfort.

      • Don_B1

        And well you and everyone else should sleep better now than when the country was marching toward those high unemployment rates at 750,000 more unemployed a month.

        And if Republicans had not waged a total obstructionist war against any action that Obama proposed to improve the economy, there would have been an even stronger recovery.

        To see why the Republican mantra on austerity is wrong (beyond that most of it is just being anti-Obama) see:

        http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/27/same-as-it-ever-was-2/

        and check out the links there.

        For why the Democrats are surging, see:

        http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/27/not-the-election-they-were-expecting/

    • Gregg Smith

      Did you see the 60 minutes interview with Obama? It was all looking back and blaming Bush. He did not offer any vision for the future.

      • JGC

        No, i did not get to see either of the 60 Minute interviews with Obama or Romney.  But if you want to see Obama’s vision for the future, you can go on whitehouse.gov, click on “the Administration” then “President Barack Obama”, and within “Learn More” you will find Policy Snapshots split into two sections: Progress and What’s Next.  And he has a lot of plans for the future.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Wait a second, I remember the liberal media and the left telling me that Reagan was an idiot actor and a cowboy who wanted the nuclear button.

      Now he is the greatest President of all time….LOL

      • Mouse_2012

        Amazing the greatest person to the republicans was an actor from Hollywood. Too bad Clint Eastwood didn’t work out for you guys. 

        You still have the Terminator(Actually meet him multiple times and is a nice guy) 

      • JGC

        Yeah, just like the Republicans are falling all over Bill Clinton, trying to get photo ops with him, and feel his warm, healing embrace…The rehabilitation of George W. Bush is going on right now, even as I type this; he may even be allowed to appear at the 2016 Republican convention…Memory lights the corners of my mind, misty water-colored memories, of the way we voted…

    • Mouse_2012

      Funny Romney has to go back 30 years 

      • Don_B1

        And Romney making comparisons doesn’t do himself any favors, but it is NOT because Reagan was some real great person.

        Reagan, probably from his acting career and his proselytizing for GE (Theater), did know how to relate to the people and sell them things they really did not want and would not help them.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      Slight caveat: “Four years ago” means in the middle of the meltdown, not since Inauguration Day 2009.

      Usually that matters not in an election year, but the last 4 months of 2008 were a very unusual and upheaving time for our economy and society, and should be credited to the president then.

  • JAIBEEZ

    Why is it okay for Israel to have nukes but not Iran? Is there any actual proof their program is for other than peaceful purpose? I personally haven’t heard any and I know I would have were there any proof. Sound familiar?
     Israel is a terrorist state; they got their land through terrorism..yet have painted Palestinians as terrorists. If “a Native American diaspora” was to try and “take over” the U.S., and you fought against the people who were killing your family and friends, burning down your houses and taking your land…would you be a terrorist?
    Israel is always ready to bomb somebody, but when was the last time Iran attacked someone? Israel has proven itself to be a warmonger, so why do we not demand they eliminate their arsenal of weapons?They are looking to start another pre-emptive war.
    I think the State of Israel is absoloutely disgusting and, it really makes me wonder, what is the real reason we have such strong ties to them? I’m not happy with the way Obama has handled the whole Isreali issue but at least he’s pushing back against their attempt to drag us into war…

    I try not to fall prey to the conspiracy theories but something just doesn’t add up

  • JGC

    Uh oh…a Republican congressman, fighting to keep his seat in a hotly contested Pennsylvania swing district, is recorded at a Tea Party gathering last weekend, firing up his base:

    “…we need to support people who have a history and know what it is like to sign the front of a paycheck, not the back of a paycheck…the front of the paycheck also includes you took a risk and you build a business on your own – without the federal government standing next to you as you’re signing a personal guarantee.  It’s just you and your wife and your banker; you know that’s it.”

    Those are the words of Rep. Mike Fitzpatrick, currently serving on the House Banking Committee, a man who is cut from the same piece of far-right, strict social conservative cloth as Rick Santorum, and now is apparently ready to ride Romney’s 47% coattails into oblivion.

    • StilllHere

      Spoken like someone who’s only signed the back of a paycheck; who favors the followers not the leaders; the takers not the makers …

      • jefe68

        So the person who is doing the job of making someones company successful, the worker, is a taker in your view?

        When I read this kind of statement it strikes me that there is something really perverse going on.
        That the contempt you have for other people is so intense that you could see the world in this twisted way. 

        If the GOP keeps up with this kind rhetoric it’s going to become an irrelevant party.

        • Mouse_2012

          Great point.  But I think the irrelevance is going to take far longer due to the likes of the Fox News Spin Machine. 

      • JGC

        I do not see how this is a winning issue for a congressman in a swing district, to dismiss employees who earn a paycheck over the relatively few who start small businesses.  To discard the folks who work to earn a living as nurses and police and teachers, as servers in restaurants or stocking shelves at big box stores, as research technicians or assembly line workers at a plant.  Lots of people work hard to earn a paycheck and sign the back of that paycheck, and contribute to our economy.  

        And I haven’t even started yet on the rest of Rep. Mike Fitzpatrick’s statement, so few words, yet so rich in all sorts of xenophobic, neanderthal-like, anti-worker, anti-47% imagery…It is just like four-tier layer cake of tasty sound-bites, and I wish I could be in the Philadelphia area to hear the advertisements that will be crafted by his Democratic opponent, Kathy Boockvar, in response.  

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        Nice to know that’s what you thought of me when I was working their way through college.

        You’re classy!

    • Gregg Smith

      What’s the matter with his statement?

      • JGC

        I truly believe you can’t see anything wrong with Fitzpatrick’s statement, but some questions to your question:   If you employ people to work at your stables and issue them a paycheck, are they to be dismissed as second-class citizens when they sign the back of the check, because they are not the job creators?  (Maybe you don’t need to employ anyone so that may not be a good example.)  And what do you think Fitzpatrick meant by “we need to support people who have a history”? Whose history?  What is the history, and who doesn’t have the right history? And between “just you and your wife and your banker” has a lot of religious imagery; that probably resonates with his Tea Party audience.  Does it? Is this the new religion of the right? The Banker at the head of a new church? And don’t women start businesses, too?  Because Rep. Fitzpatrick is only speaking to his audience as if men are the only job creators and risk takers. The wife just happens to be there to provide support to the man?   Fitzpatrick has got a lot of explaining to do to his constituents.

        • Gregg Smith

          I guess I just disagree with your premise. I do not think any was was dismissed as a second class citizen. Romney has a history of running a business, Obama does not.

          • JGC

            Romney has a history of running a business, and running other businesses into the ground, to pick over their Bain debt-loaded carcasses.  I have a niece who signed the back of paychecks from KB Toys, until the Romney-led Bain got a hold of them. From the Matt Taibbi ‘Greed and Debt’ article in Rolling Stone:  Bain put up $18-million and got big banks to finance the remaining $302-million, and barely past a year later, Bain took a recapitalization dividend, forcing KB to redeem $121-million in stock and take on another $66-million in bank loans – of which $83-million went directly into the pockets of Bain investors and owners, including Mitt Romney’s. Bain helped smooth the following bankruptcy deal in typical fashion by doling out huge bonuses to KB’s top management; Employees, meanwhile, did not get a single day’s severance, not even ones who had worked there for 40 years. 

            The $83-million squeezed out of KB is no doubt resting in the Caymans or in Switzerland;  as for my niece, I remember that Christmas a few years ago where (no doubt using some of her final KB paycheck) she showered gifts of deeply discounted toys on my kids that she had bought in the liquidation sale of KB.

          • William

             What is the difference between that and how Obama took billions from bondholders of GM/Chrysler and told them to beat it? Took billions out of GM and gave it to the UAW. Then doubled down and told the Delphi retired workers, 20,000 “tough luck” and took away their pensions?

          • JGC

            One of the things that connects these two stories (KB Toys and the auto industry bail-out) is Mitt Romney. He was all for letting the bankruptcy process wind through both (with a special assist to KB,  shoving them into bankruptcy in the first place.) 

          • Don_B1

            Obama did NOT “give it to the UAW” the way you imply. The UAW assumed the cost of its healthcare policy and took wage reductions in a reasonable agreement, that was supported by the “money” from GM.

            Another deliberate mischaracterization of the facts of the auto bailout.

    • MrNutso

      I know Mike Fitzpatrick and he is the works kind of politician.  He is really a moderate in a very moderate district (Bucks County, PA).  But if he ran and acted like he did as a County Commissioner, he would be tossed out by a tea party challenger.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        “The works kind…” meaning “the worst kind…”?

        • MrNutso

          Yes worst.

  • StilllHere
    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Which party committed the fraud?

      Inquiring minds need to know.

      • John_in_Amherst

        Actually, it was an individual in this case, not a party.  Unlike the numerous incidents coming to light around the country where the GOP has paid for the services of a company tied to several schemes to commit fraud, and is also trying to pass voter registration laws that selectively disenfranchise likely Democratic voters…  (see my post at approx. 8:45, and numerous posts by others on this topic today)

        The GOP touts itself as the “law and order” party, except when it is not politically expedient, in which case it is perfectly willing to twist or break the law…

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

          John, I’m disappointed in you for not bringing up James O’Keefe. That felon’s name shuts up a lot of people who think they’re onto something about voter fraud.

          • John_in_Amherst

             As pointed out in a couple of the articles cited, Acorn – now defunct – while inept, did step up and fire the shameful perps who O’Keefe exposed.  Maybe if O’Keefe plied his trade in service of truth rather than a given party, his work would be more highly regarded…

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            Ply his trade for the service of truth?

            Nah, he’s not a journo who’s lost the way (like, say, how Mike Barnicle was worth a damn a few decades ago). His trade isn’t “finding things out”, it’s “baiting something and lying his ass off about it”. That’s built-in, not added on.

            Part of me wants to wear that pimp costume for Halloween and not take it off until after I vote.

          • John_in_Amherst

             point well taken.

    • Ray in VT

      I don’t think that that can be called fraud, at least not in the sense that voter ID laws are seeking combat.  She registered to vote in two states as herself, which the article said is illegal in Maryland, but chances are the voter ID laws wouldn’t stop this sort of thing, unless they are checking their lists against other state lists.  Situations like this would certainly be an argument for some sort of national voter ID that would do that.

  • Ed75

    With the first debate coming up, the book:

    Freddoso, David ‘The case against Barack Obama’ Regnery, 2008,

    written during the 2008 campaign, shows the unique kind of challenge politicians who run against Obama face. (For example, that any criticism of him is seen as unfair.) Even Hilary Clinton couldn’t overcome it.

    (I still think Prime Minister Netanyahu looks like the lovable Yogi Bear, no?)

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Yes, the media will attempt to make Obama teflon but there are the last 4 years of failed leadership for all to see.

    • anamaria23

      In my lifetime, I have not seen a US President so criticized, so  maligned, so disrespected , so obstructed, so filibustered, so mocked, so misrepresented, so lied about as President Barack Obama.  
      You are so lost in delusion MrED75.  a pity.   

      • Ed75

        Of course on wants to like any president. But he supports intrinsic evils: abortion, restriction of religious freedom, embryonic stem cell research, same sex marriage. He hasn’t had time to support euthanasia yet.

        So the problem is that his policies are not acceptable and very dangerous. Even his extreme liberalism pales in importance to his promotion of the above items. I don’t understand how any Catholic can vote for him.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      You had lost me at Regnery. It does save time.

      • Ray in VT

        It used to be a pretty well respected publisher back in the day that published on a wide variety of topics, but these days it’s mostly a right wing vanity press.  If one can come up with some outrageous claims about liberals or Democrats, and one can write a somewhat coherent sentence, then Regnery will probably publish you.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

          I don’t know if I go back far enough to when they were respected. I’ll guess that was back when the last two Rockefeller Republicans weren’t in protective captivity somewhere, like passenger pigeons.

          Regnery is the backstop press of wingnut welfare, and their role in having NYT best seller chart add the bulk sales* asterisk cannot be ignored.

          *Or what you and I would call “free with subscription giveaways”.

          • Ray in VT

            Way back in the day they published some philosophy and literary criticism stuff.  There was always some politics, and much of it was conservative, but I don’t think that it was crazy.  I mean they published William F. Buckley’s God and Man at Yale, but that’s a far cry from Ann Coulter or Sean Hannity.

            Good point on the sales numbers.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            Wow. Talk about “ain’t what it used to be”.

            Yeah, it was about time the NYT did something about those “direct to pulp” things. That list really drives what bookstores and libraries stock.

            I guess the Times decided their book page was a prestige place they didn’t want screwed with like that. Now if they could only do something about some of the hacks on their OpEd page.

  • Mouse_2012

    To the Righties, 

    Anyone come up with a better reason why Romney overpaid  2 million in taxes besides the obvious reason that he wanted to keep his tax rate at 13%? Plus if he’s such a free market Capitalist like he’s claims does it make sense he would overpay taxes to the government?

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Why are you complaining?  It reduces the deficit.

      You are very concerned about tax rates. If he donated to charity the same amount as Biden his effective tax rate would have been 19%.

      Also, Romney paid a higher tax rate than 97% of Americans according to the Tax Foundation.

      • Yar

        What are the chances he files an amended return and re-claims those deductions at a later date, say after he loses the election?  He wants the Presidency so bad he will say or do anything.  It is really scary.  Mitt Romney wants whoever he is with at the time to like him.  It looks pathological.  This goes all the way back from cutting hair of his classmate to telling a group of potential donors we won’t have to do anything to get a boost in the economic polls after the election.
        It wouldn’t surprise me to hear him claim he will give away his entire fortune if only the American electorate will just make him president.
        This is an internal challenge he has with himself; maybe it is a competition with his late father, I don’t know what it is, but it is driving him crazy, and it shows! 

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

          It’s like Mitt’s giving someone a big cardboard check, and then months later when the cameras are all gone, the marching band has stopped playing, and the lights are off, revising the dollar amount on that check downwards.

        • Don_B1

          I would bet that the amended return is already filled out and will be submitted within the allowed three-year period, whether he wins or loses.

          Should it unfortunately happen, by the two year mark of his presidency he will know he has no chance of a second term (as he knew as Governor of Massachusetts), with the possible exception being because the voters throw all (or enough to emasculate) of the Republicans out of Congress.

      • John_in_Amherst

         Reason to complain:  Romney just a couple months ago insisted in an interview that anyone paying more than their legally required taxes would be unfit for office.

    • hennorama

      There’s no need to speculate about why the Romneys paid more Federal tax than they owed.  Their financial trustee Brad Malt STATED the reason directly:

      “The Romneys’ generous charitable donations in 2011 would have significantly reduced their tax obligation for the year. The Romneys thus limited their deduction of charitable contributions to conform to the Governor’s statement in August, based upon the January estimate of income, that he paid at least 13% in income taxes in each of the last 10 years”

      Source: Romney’s own website -http://www.mittromney.com/blogs/mitts-view/2012/09/note-trustee-brad-malt

      Blatant manipulation of the return for political purposes, in direct contradiction (surprise!?) of Mr. Romney’s oft-repeated statement that “I pay all the taxes that are legally required and not a dollar more.”

      Just like “the 47%,” who also “pay all the taxes that are legally required and not a dollar more.”

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Hey, nothing about the Libyan coverup in Tom’s headlines.

    Maybe they’ll talk about a Romney tweet for an hour.

    What a surprise.
     

  • John_in_Amherst

    The evidence coming to light in the case(s) of apparent voter fraud by GOP operatives and their paid surrogates demands immediate thorough scrutiny by the press and the justice system.  Similar complaints, some against the same organizations, date to the 2004 election, after which a request for the Justice Department under Ashcroft to investigate fell on deaf ears (imagine!). These people were at it again during 2008, and now reports and videos of activities in several states indicate that the GOP has spent hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, on efforts to change voters’ party affiliations, and the registrations of GOP voters which include forged signatures and errant information.  Coupled with the legislative efforts in numerous states designed to suppress turn-out among likely Democratic voters, there is mounting evidence that the GOP cannot escape culpability.  It is highly unlikely that a complete investigation can be completed before the November election, but enough indisputable facts are on the table to give reasonable people a sound basis to form an opinion, and the media owes it to the public to expose what is known already ASAP.  The integrity of the electoral process hangs in the balance.

    • Mouse_2012

      http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/01/james-okeefe-video-purports-to-show-ease-of-voter-fraud-in-n-h-primary/
      It seems the only voter fraud committed is done by republicans. “A video posted the day after the New Hampshire Primary from conservative gonzo James O’Keefe either exposes why voting laws are too lax or comes close to itself being voter fraud (or both), by obtaining the ballots of dead Granite Staters on primary day.The video has already sparked an investigation in the New Hampshire State Attorney General’s office, both because of the weaknesses of the electoral system it seems to demonstrate and the potential legal violations those making the film might have committed, according to N.H. Associate Attorney General Richard Head.”

  • Gregg Smith

    President Obama knew within 24 hours that the attack in Benghazi was a co-ordinated terrorist attack linked to Al Qaida. He sent his UN ambassador out to lie. He is still lying about it. Why doesn’t he want the American public to know the truth?

    • anamaria23

      You need to support your statement with references.  A complete report on the investigation was aired on NPR this
      A.M    “Sent his U.N. Amb out to  lie”     Please support your accusation.  
       

      • Don_B1

        Unfortunately, Gregg is NOT in the business of supporting his accusations; he just makes them up and throws them out there, hoping some will stick in some ill-informed or biased people that see them.

        And it doesn’t seem to matter how ridiculous the accusation is.

        • Gregg Smith

          I don’t make up squat, you’ll catch up in a day or two. The ridiculous accusation is that the murder of our ambassador was a spontaneous tragedy instigated by a silly movie. 

      • Gregg Smith

        Ambassador Rice knew the attack had nothing to doe with the movie. Blood is on Hilary’s hands so the truth must be hidden. 

        • JGC

          ‘Twas a dark and stormy night when the bloody hands of Hillary Clinton… 

          Vince Foster! Look out! OMG!!!! 

          MWah HAHAHAHA! (Hillary squints her eyes and cackles, throwing her head back and straining her arms up to the sky…)

          oh. excuse me.  we’re getting very close to Halloween now….

          • Mike_Card

            Greggggg is the secret, invisible spirit who lurks in the corridors of the West Wing and reads the minds of all who either enter there or think about communicating with those who do. 

            We at the OnPoint discussion board are truly among the annointed ones, to be privy to his uncanny abilities to divine unspoken thoughts and ascribe motives to anyone.

            He, of course, cannot admit any of this, since he would be obligated to hunt us all down and kill us, lest his superpowers be ripped from his tortured soul.

          • Gregg Smith

            You need better news sources.

          • Gregg Smith

            It’s such a shame about Vince.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Anyone see the ‘free Obama phone’ video?

    Scandalous.  This program has grown from $722M in 2008 to $1.6B in 2011.  The government is actively pushing these phones and we are all paying.

    http://washingtonexaminer.com/where-do-obama-phones-come-from/article/2509203#.UGWXBlH9V8E

    • Gregg Smith

      Here’s a good video from Rep.Tim Griffin  about it.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCqU8yarNpc&feature=player_embedded&list=PLBFB75A4E2BDC6DC7#!

      What is sad is there are many more ignoramuses like this woman. Why on earth should she get a free cell phone?

      • WorriedfortheCountry

        Romney should be running more aggressively on government run amok.

        This should be exhibit A.

        • jefe68

          Well it’s hard for Romney to concentrate due to all the crow he’s been eating lately.

          He seems to be running amok without any help from the government.

        • http://twitter.com/wadedawg25 Matthew Wade

          Mitt Romney’s natural constituency should be about 1% of the population. If you restrict that pool to “likely voters,” he might naturally appeal to 2%. Maybe 3%.  

    • NewtonWhale

      You know, WFTC, you’d be a lot less “worried” if you didn’t fall for every crackpot right-wing scam that feeds into your preconceived biases:

      This specific program, SafeLink, started under President George Bush

      Q: Has the Obama administration started a program to use “taxpayer money” to give free cell phones to welfare recipients?

      A: No. Low-income households have been eligible for discounted telephone service for more than a decade. But the program is funded by telecom companies, not by taxes, and the president has nothing to do with it.

      http://www.factcheck.org/2009/10/the-obama-phone/

      Scam alert: No, Obama won’t pay your cellphone bill

      The cellphone scam has its roots in the rumors circulating about a so-called “Obama Phone,” a program in which, the rumors and right-wing blogs claim, Obama is distributing new cellphones and prepaid minutes to welfare recipients. According to FactCheck , the federal government offers no such program, and, although low-income households have long been eligible for discounted phone service, it is funded by telecommunications companies, not taxes, “and the president has nothing to do with it.” 

      http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/technolog/scam-alert-no-obama-wont-pay-your-cellphone-bill-851592

      • WorriedfortheCountry

        See — you can’t trust the fact checkers.

        It is funded by a tax — the UTC and it was started in 1996.

        That is like saying the sales tax isn’t a tax because Target collects it.

        • Gregg Smith

          A couple of commenters on the “Upward Mobility” board also didn’t believe it could be true. One posted the same factcheck link. While I had a hard time believing the lady was for real, the program sounded entirely Obama like to me. Do you think Mr. Whale will acknowledge the truth?

        • NewtonWhale

          There is absolutely nothing that connects the program to President Obama.

          Your original attempt to do so is a lie and a smear.

          • Gregg Smith

            Obama expanded the program to include cell phones in 2008 dramatically increasing it’s cost to taxpayers.

          • Ray in VT

            So was he able to unilaterally pass that while still in the Senate?

          • Gregg Smith

            My bad, the Dem controlled Congress passed it and Obama has opposed reforms proposed by Clair McCaskell and Tim Griffin. 

          • Ray in VT

            So it was signed into law by a Republican President, and the current President has not taken any action on this legislatively as no measure has come to his desk for a signature?

          • Gregg Smith

            I don’t know the situation,but I’ll check into it. It doesn’t matter to me whose stupid idea it was, Bush had plenty. The woman clearly thinks it came from Obama and I dare say no one is thanking Bush. 

          • NewtonWhale

            Awesome!

            He either invented a time machine or warped the space time continuum!

            http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/08/15/idUS192845+15-Aug-2008+BW20080815

          • Don_B1

            The physicists would like to speak with him!

          • WorriedfortheCountry

             I never tied this to Obama directly — even though they are marketing the phones as “obama phones” in the  inner city.

            This is simply government run amok and it needs to change.

            As Gregg pointed out, even Democrats tried to reform this and were blocked by the Obama White House.  Why?  Are they using this to buy votes with OUR money?

          • jefe68

            Yes, you did.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

             Watch the video.  The person in the video — from Cleveland no less — BELIEVES Obama gave them the phone.

            Someone told them it was an Obama phone.

          • Ray in VT

            So if someone gives me a rock, and they tell me that it is from the moon, then it is?  People believe all sorts of things that are wholly unsupported by facts.  There are plenty of people who believe that the President is some sort of secret Muslim.  They may believe it, but it doesn’t make it true.

          • Thinkin5

             3 guesses how FOX News reported on this video. Doubt that there was any back story, as usual. More life in a cave.

          • Ray in VT

            Now who is “they”.  It looks like there are a number of companies that can provide phones via this program, but which one is doing this?  How is this government run amok?  It looks like this program has roots going back 100 years. 

            Should there be safeguards and checks to make sure that the program is administered correctly if it continues to exist?  Sure.  Of course there should be.

            What was McCaskill’s reform, and did she have any other support from within the Democratic Party?  I did find Griffin’s “reform” here

            http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d112:HR03481:@@@D&summ2=m&

            which is reform by elimination.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            Frankly, I’m not up on the details of the reform history.  I watched the Tim Griffin video that Gregg kindly posted.

            This is an example of a program that had good intentions but has clearly ballooned out of control.  A common theme with the Federal government.

          • Don_B1

            You certainly “inferred” it!

            Where do you get that Obama “blocked it?” Isn’t your credibility discredited enough?

            Just go to your room and reconsider your warped life.

        • Ray in VT

          Do you have a link for that?  I do generally trust the fact checkers, in part due to what I often see as blatant dishonesty from many who criticize their efforts.  Factcheck said that it is funded by a universal service fee that is sustained by the phone companies who often charge customers.  Now, if that is the case, then it is certainly funded by consumers, but I don’t think that it can strictly be called a tax.  I don’t know what would be the correct analogy, perhaps something like the U.K. license fee that they use to fund the BBC, but I don’t think that yours would quite fit it.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

             ‘universal service fee’ is mandated by the government and is therefore a tax on users of the telecom service.

            How is this any different than the gas tax?  The gas tax is used to fund the highway trust fund.  I guess the only difference is who handles the trust fund.

            However, in both cases the government controls how the money is spent.

          • Don_B1

            While we are talking about fees, Romney, as Governor of Massachusetts, raised $750 million a year in fee hikes so he could deny raising taxes. He still left a deficit.

        • StilllHere

          She was under the impression it was an Obama program which is most likely the perception that the program administrators wanted to foster.

          • anamaria23

            You need to reference your assumptions.. Otherwise you just spout a bunch of  “most likelys”  without substance, value, meaning or
            influence.

          • StilllHere

            Watch the video

        • William

           I wonder if those companies that provided these obama phones are taking it as a tax deduction. Which would be illegal since the taxpayers are funding it.

          • Ray in VT

            How so?  Are you alleging that they are engaging in some sort of partisan political activity or something else?

    • MrNutso

      A program whose origins date back to the 1930′s, boosted by Reagan (Lifeline) with cell phones for low income Americans added by GWB.

  • J__o__h__n

    Mike Rowe appears with Romney proving that working with Mitt is a dirty job.

  • AC

    i must admit to feeling a little unintelligent when it comes to the Israel/Iran issue, but the photo above is so..bad, it’s laughable. really, pointing at a little bomb about to go off ? sooo scary – if you’re 5.
    Seriously, i already think Iran’s leader is a little too irrational to hold such a position and now Israel is using posters with drawings grade schoolers wouldn’t respond too.
    it makes me nervous that this ‘combo’ of leaders are upset with one another, the whole thing has a childish temper-tantrum feel but with some very realistic and deadly consequences…..

    • Don_B1

      The Mullahs are apparently working to throw Ahmadinejad out of office, so this may be the last time Bibi can cite him in his rants at the U.N.

  • Ellen Dibble

    A true antidote/tonic to our cultural blinders is the speeches at the General Assembly.  I heard Mongolia, which is booming and is glad to report on it, Cape Verde, whose (I think) chief of police gave a good synopsis of the challenges facing the African continent, and parts of a few others.  I heard all of what President Mahmoud Abbas of Palestine had to say, at high noon, in front of Netanyahu.  He received a long and warm ovation, and was actually embraced as he left the podium, by “protocol,” or whoever it was.  He laid out decades of unrelenting, um, abuses upon the people he represents.  Oh, the tears of things. Soon after, we hear Netanyahu, no translation needed, outlining the abuses upon the people he represents, Israelis, not actual but potential, specifically Iranian.  I think Americans should have a Very Healthy respect for Israel’s intelligence arm.  Compare their record to our Yellow Cake episode and ensuing war in Iraq, or our blase attitude toward Al Qaeda’s threats over our homeland the summer before 9/11.  And I also have a healthy respect for Obama’s restraint.  I don’t think he’d risk our already indebted nation, risk our already hated nation’s low level of respect, in fomenting unrest (further unrest) in the region.  However, I do think if he saw it as necessary and a way to do it, he’d take action.  Case in point:  Abbottabad.

    • Don_B1

      Note that many from the Mosad, etc., have backed Obama’s opinion that the time for negotiations is not yet over.

      It is a shame that the political (election) season has precluded making any progress in negotiations as the opposition would twist any fair deal beyond recognition.

  • jefe68

    Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel looks like a cartoon character with that illustration. How can anyone take this man seriously? Next he’ll have an illustration showing Ahmadinejad as Snidely Whiplash.

    • Steve_the_Repoman

      Still looking for the door to the way-back machine

    • 1Brett1

      He’s just a W from another mother…

  • Ellen Dibble

    It seems to me the offensive video trailer became offensive when it was broadcast — in Egypt.  If the judgment of broadcasters was that people would be offended by it, wouldn’t it be far, far better to protect people’s feelings and NOT broadcast it?  Because it was broadcast, people have lost their lives, and the standard for constructive protest and demonstration has been lowered, it seems to me.  There are ways of protesting that is extremely productive, that brings people together and helps politicians to move their countries forward.  This is not a good precedent for the countries involved.

    • Don_B1

      Actually I don’t think it was broadcast; it was mainly talked about at mosques, on radio, etc., by radicals trying to incite violence for their own political purposes; e.g., the supporters of Ahmed Shafir, a loser in the Egyptian presidential contest.

  • JGC

    OK social conservatives, what do you think about the gestational agreement Tagg Romney and his wife Jen entered into with their paid anonymous birth mother? It contained an abortion clause within the gestational carrier agreement: “In the event the child is determined to be physiologically, genetically or chromosomally abnormal, the decision to abort or not to abort is to be made by the intended parents.”  Life is getting more complicated all the time…

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      I’m not a social conservative but is Tagg or his wife running for President?

      • JGC

        No, they are not.  It is just a thought-provoking situation for granddad Mitt Romney to be in, given the platform of the Republican party.  If his running mate Paul Ryan had his way, this would directly affect future Romney grandchildren (and the lack thereof). 

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

          “Choice for mine, and not for thine” says it all:

          Riffraff like me cannot be trusted to make the proper decision, so no decision-making ability can be granted to me.

          Simply being a Romney makes Tagg a better class of person, and therefore the rules need not apply to him.

      • NewtonWhale

        The story says that Mitt paid for the arrangement.
        http://www.tmz.com/2012/09/20/mitt-romney-son-tagg-abortion-clause-surrogate-birth-agreement-contract-bill-handel/

        Notwithstanding the latest poll results, it appears that Mitt is still running for president.

        Which makes the story news, and is the reason his lawyer passed it off as an oversight.

        • JGC

          Could we also get his lawyer to give us some oversight on the Romneys’ taxes?

    • MrNutso

      What about if the birth mother’s life is in danger?

      • JGC

        I think the agreement had a clause that she had the right to terminate the pregnancy also, if her life was in danger.  There was also a clause for the intended parents, that if there were multiple fetuses, they had the right to selectively abort the extra fetuses.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       How is a private and personal agreement public?

      Aren’t these private people?

      That is the real question here.  What scumbag released private info?

    • hennorama

      I say “hands off spouses and family,” since they’re not candidates.

      They are allowed to be humans and to make mistakes and/or do stuff that directly contradicts their relatives who are running for office.

      Hey, some candidates even do and say things that directly contradict themselves.  These are the much more interesting contradictions and hypocrisy.

  • William

    Is the “big question” “Should Obama continue to “spike the football” about taking out Osama? Did that cause the terrorist attack that killed four Americans? Should Obama tone it down or will he double down during the debates and continue to “spike the football?”. 

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      No, that is not the big question.

      Glad you showed some self restraint, however. One more “spike the football” and I’d have thought you were a bot.

    • Ray in VT

      So he should tone down his comments on perhaps his most significant foreign policy/national security accomplishment in order to not inflame terrorist sympathizers around the world?

    • Steve__T

       You should hope so, instead of asking Mitt about what he thinks about the 47% or airplanes that don’t have windows that open during flight to let smoke out .

    • 1Brett1

      Well, just pull that daisy out and start plucking  petals…”Obama should talk tough; Obama shouldn’t talk tough. Obama should talk tough; Obama shouldn’t…” 

  • durandtodd

    Does Iran have a right of self defense? If yes then would this include the types of defense that Israel enjoys?
    Twice now the call screener has censored this question.
    Are there certain things we don’t talk about on On Point?

  • http://twitter.com/wadedawg25 Matthew Wade

    I tend to agree with Taibbi, this race should never have been close.

    “Romney is an almost perfect amalgam of all the great out-of-touch douchebags of our national cinema: he’s Gregg Marmalaard from Animal House mixed with Billy Zane’s sneering, tux-wearing Cal character in Titanic to pussy-ass Prince Humperdinck to Roy Stalin to Gordon Gekko (he’s literally Gordon Gekko). He’s everything we’ve been trained to despise, the guy who had everything handed to him, doesn’t fight his own battles and insists there’s only room in the lifeboat for himself – and yet the Democrats, for some reason, have had terrible trouble beating him in a popularity contest.
    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/this-presidential-race-should-never-have-been-this-close-20120925

    • MrNutso

      Thanks for the post.  I laughed out loud again as I did when I read the article.

    • Steve__T

       It’s sad that we only have one reporter that will tell it like it is. Instead of spinning every thing out of reality.

  • http://twitter.com/wadedawg25 Matthew Wade

    Separation of church and state, lady from FlyOver country.

  • http://twitter.com/wadedawg25 Matthew Wade

    Romney wants a war with Iran yesterday.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      I’d say Romney really doesn’t want a war with Iran, but it’s not the end of the matter.

      All Romney’s domestic “friends” do, and if there’s one thing he’s incapable of doing it’s standing up to his friends.

  • TomK_in_Boston

    Seeing the real Lord Etchasketch, Duke of Bane, talking about the 47% has really turned this race around. It’s so funny to hear his supporters say he only meant he couldn’t influence them when he said he can’t “worry about them”. That might work if he didn’t ALSO say they thought of themselves as victims, as being entitled, etc….sorry, M’Lud, it doesn’t fly.

    The TeaOP spin doctors are so desperate to have His Lordship look like he gives a s**t about the peasants that they even have him talking about his socialist health care plan. That must be causing some high blood pressure in the “base” :)

    Don’t get me wrong – Rockefeller Republican Obama isn’t my dream candidate, esp when he expresses concern about the deficit and “reforming” (Righty-English translation: reform = screw the middle class) SS and medicare. But the class war RR boys terrify me.

    • William

       It is hard to back a President that goes to Vegas the day after we lost an American Embassy, American Ambassador and 3 other Americans to terrorists. It is hard to back a President that goes on “The View” rather than meet with foreign leaders at the UN. Certainly you can spin these two decisions on Obama’s part as “I’m not needed, Hilliary has it”, but Hilliary is not the President, not officially anyway….

      • Ray in VT

        I know, how dare a guy keep campaigning at a time like this.

        • William

          That terrorist attack is what Obama called “bumps in the road”….

          • TomK_in_Boston

            The terrorist attack while Bush was reading “my pet goat” was no bump in the road, but I bet you supported him.

      • TomK_in_Boston

        But it’s easy to back a candidate who thinks 47% of Americans are scum and made a career out of destroying American jobs, right?

      • 1Brett1

        Yeah, I mean the President can’t possibly do any meaningful work once he steps off the White House grounds…the invention of the telegraph is a good ten to fifteen years away, for chrissake!

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Keyword alert!!!

    • Thinkin5

       When the Repcons say that they’re “going to fix” something in government, it always means a lot of people are going to suffer. “Fixing Medicare” will be ending it. “Fixing” education will mean ending public education. “Fixing” Social Security will mean ending it. They don’t know how to FIX, as in correct and improve, anything! If they did that in business businesses would close all over the place.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        Yeah, their saying “fixing” is scary, but “reforming” is scarier.

        (And I’m not giving Conservadems or Beltway Inbreds a pass on those verbs either.)

        • TomK_in_Boston

          Hey, I answered before I saw this. Exactly :)

          Dam right on the “conservadems”.

      • TomK_in_Boston

        Yeah, “fixing” is bad, but “reform” means the class war shock troops are ready to attack.

    • hennorama

      It’s also comical that Mr. Romney and his supporters say “he was talking about process” and these remarks about “the 47%” were “inelegant” and “off the cuff.”

      In other words, Mr. Romney doesn’t really believe what he said, or if he does, he didn’t quite say it right, or it was just a bunch of stuff he says to rich donors who are so stupid that they’ll BELIEVE what he says, and believe it so much that they’ll give Mr. Romney gobs of their non-47% money.

      Nice try Romney folks, but people who watch and listen to Mr. Romney’s own words can make up their own minds, and they also possess BS-meters that beep like crazy when Mr. Romney and his ilk defend these crass remarks.

      • TomK_in_Boston

        It’s so disappointing, but typical, that the corporate media let him and his “surrogates” get away with this. “‘I can’t worry about them’ was just about the process”.  Sure…why don’t they ask him if saying the 47% see themselves as victims, depend on gvt, think they are ENTITLED (Lord R raises his voice) etc was about the process?

  • BHA_in_Vermont

    The President SHOULD NOT BE BACKING ISRAEL.
    Israel has snubbed it’s nose at the UN for over 40 years. When Israel starts behaving like a world citizen, then we should support them.

    We need another “red line” cartoon:
    Israel bombs Iran and the money bags going from the USA to Israel get a big red circle with a line through them.

    Disclosure: I am neither Israeli nor Jewish. I am neither Arab nor Muslim

    • Ellen Dibble

      If Israel stuck to the Oslo accords and so on and so forth, then the monumental Arab/Persian aggravator of a internationally lawless Zionist state would be gone, and then what excuse would we have for worrying about Persia’s nuclear ambitions?  Well, I suppose they would be glad to cooperate with the IAEA inspectors, and we would be so glad they were moving ahead with nuclear energy, if they’re doing it responsibly.  I mean, I’m one whose view of nuclear energy is very, very dim.  But.

    • Steve__T

       Well first off the red line is in the wrong place, it should be across the burning fuse.

      Oh and that bomb looks like it was made by WB cartoons,
      you can almost hear the Road Runner going Beep beep.

  • Ellen Dibble

    I thought the core of Netanyahu’s argument was that the terrorist groups associated with/sponsored by Iran would be using those nuclear weapons.  Sanger didn’t hear that?  The proliferation of it is the issue.  Not whether Iran would use restraint and would be crazy to use it (as caller Masoud said).

    • Ellen Dibble

      I think our presidents “got religion” about nuclear proliferation when Iraq suggested they hide their weapons in the Northwest frontier area of their country, as I read somewhere.  Our officials say, remind us, that Pakistan’s weapons are secure, not to worry about terrorists coming near to Islamabad.  But I’m thinking that may be what they want us to believe, not exactly the truth.

    • Don_B1

      Obama campaigned in 2007-8 on reducing nuclear weapons and the nuclear stockpiles that could be used by terrorists.

      If Iran did develop nuclear power, it would give it political power that would force other states in the Middle East to feel they need an equivalent capability. With that type of proliferation in inherently unstable countries (at least for the immediate to mid term), the possibility of terrorist use would grow immeasurably.

  • NewtonWhale

    Republicans finally find evidence of voter fraud

    The Republican National Committee has terminated its relationship with Strategic Allied Consulting, a firm run by longtime GOP consultant Nathan Sproul that is currently under investigation for possible voter fraud in three Florida counties.The RNC had paid the firm $2.9 million this year to conduct voter registration drives in five swing states — Colorado, Florida, Nevada, North Carolina and Virginia.

    The move came after the Palm Beach County, Fla., elections supervisor discovered 108 potentially fraudulent registration forms submitted by the GOP consulting firm, including suspected phony signatures and home addresses that matched those of a gas station, a medical building and a Land Rover dealership.

    NBC News has learned that two other Florida counties, Santa Rosa and Okaloosa, have also reported possible fraudulent registration forms submitted by the firm, including apparent dead people being registered as new voters. Prosecutors in two counties are investigating possible voter fraud by the GOP consulting firm, officials said.

    But what could cause trouble are news reports from 2012 linking Sproul to the campaign. An Associated Press report  quoted him in February as “an Arizona political consultant who is working for Romney’s campaign.”This is not the first time Sproul has been linked to voter fraud allegations. He has beenaccused of  tampering  with Democratic voter registration forms over several election cycles across multiple states.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/27/rnc-voter-fraud_n_1921223.html

  • http://twitter.com/wadedawg25 Matthew Wade

    Israel is no better than Iran. The refuse to allow IAEA inspections, refuse confirm or deny if it has nukes, and it refuses to sign the Non-prolilferation treaty. Hypocrites.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A3uqKCsCcAAD1n4.jpg

  • http://twitter.com/wadedawg25 Matthew Wade

    Mitt Romney’s natural constituency should be about 1% of the population. If you restrict that pool to “likely voters,” he might naturally appeal to 2%. Maybe 3%.  

  • Scott B

    Netanyahu, an Israel, reminds me of all of the cartoons where the little dog or cat keeps picking fights with bigger adversaries because it thinks his big friend will back him up, or it goads the big friend into getting into a fight and the big friend gets his ass kicked. One of two things happens: The big refuses to back up his little hanger-on, or the big guy starts being led around by the little guy. 

    The US should have Israel’s back, but that should never be blind loyalty, or letting the tail wag the dog.  Israel could have gone after Iran long ago, but Bibi wants to make sure his ass is covered because he probably knows he’s going to get in it over his head.

  • William

    Obama sounded pretty heartless and out of touch when he told all the business owners in America “you did not build that business” ….

    • Thinkin5

       Especially if you ignore the context of his whole statement. Fortunately, most people are smart enough to see through that game. Mitt has done the “out of context” trick before.

      • Ray in VT

        Yet some promoting the you didn’t build that comment will complain about Romney being taken out of context.  Oh the irony.

        • DrewInGeorgia

          It’s come to seem that it is impossible for anyone to take anything in context anymore. Sad.

          • jefe68

            We are becoming a nation that thrives on de-contextualization and this is the price of a media that has stopped doing it’s job. At least in part.

            Some right wing idiot posted a inane comments about the KKK and democrats as if to say the party is racist on my FB page. Then went on to point out that Martin Luther King was a republican.
            Of course this person took all of this out of the context that all this history was from.

            In the 1920′a and 30′s, which was what this rube was alluding too, a lot of Southern Democrats were in the KKK. In fact Harry Truman was a member as was Calvin Coolidge, who was a Republican. Anyway this was a different time, and a lot of people joined the KKK in those days for various reasons. Truman was never active and eventually distanced himself from these racists. However, people forget that KKK was very active in the politics of the 20′s and 30′s and were allied with the Temperance movement. The were  for Prohibition and used their anti-Catholic bias as one of the main reasons. One needs context to frame issues some of which can be complex in nature. In politics this more likely the case then not, sad to say. 

          • Ray in VT

            Do you mean to tell me that the Democrat (sic) party of Andrew Jackson isn’t the exact same party as the one of Barack Obama?  Try telling that to someone.  I would also like someone to remind a bunch of Stars and Bars flying southern Republicans that their party, then, was the one that burned it’s way through Georgia under Sherman.

    • MrNutso

      Show where the President said the words you have in quotes.

      • William

         He never said that?

        • Steve__T

           NO

      • pete18

        “If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — YOU DIDN’T BUILD THAT. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.”

        http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/07/13/remarks-president-campaign-event-roanoke-virginia

        • MrNutso

          The words are not the same.  It is clear from the original comments that he was not saying “you did not build that business”.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/7PCBO7MOTRVVFJZC4AAAQAKOOU Denise

           For a fuller context, include the subsequent paragraph too:

          “If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some
          help.  There was a great teacher somewhere in your life.  Somebody
          helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that
          allowed you to thrive.  Somebody invested in roads and bridges.  If
          you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that.  Somebody else made that
          happen.  The Internet didn’t get invented on its own.  Government
          research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money
          off the Internet.

          The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our
          individual initiative, but also because we do things together.
          There
          are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own.  I
          mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service.  That would be a
          hard way to organize fighting fires. “

          • pete18

            The real context is to understand what Obama is arguing for. He’s telling business owners (which he is categorizing as the rich) that they should pay an even larger share of taxes than they already do to solve his overspending problem. The problem with this of course is that “the rich” already pay a disproportionate share of the tax burden and no amount of additional taxation he can heap on them will solve the deficit problems. The collective community costs for the services that we all benefit from, the roads, firefighters and internet research has already been paid for in spades by those business owners.  Saying that their risk, initiative, innovation hard work and success should be taxed even more, not only is counterproductive to creating more jobs, it discourages others from making those sacrifices to build new business. It also purposely overlooks
            the additional tax revenue, jobs and social benefits come from those new business. Think Apple and try to calculate how much their existence has added to the economy and the improvement of most people’s daily lives. The government didn’t build Apple, but they can provide an obstacle for the 100s of new Apples that might be out there.

          • TomK_in_Boston

            Nonsense. He’s stating the obvious pre-voodoo truth, that individuals succeed because tax revenues provide a developed society, a public-private partnership. Do you think a hard working smart person has as good chances in Haiti as in the USA?

            Yeah, think about Apple, and all that networking it uses developed with government funding. Think abt the public education funded by taxes that provided them employees from the great Univ of CA. Think about the biotech industry, and all that NIH funding that made it possible. Sheesh, it goes back to when Watson visited Crick’s gvt supported lab on a gvt fellowship.

            Doubt if you can hear it, tho, considering your bizarre remark about the rich having some heavy burden when they are paying some of the lowest, if not the lowest, tax rates in our history.

          • pete18

            I’m afraid the partisan wax is in your ears my friend. I said the rich pay the largest PERCENTAGE of the tax burden, not the highest rates in history. And even though the rate the higher brackets pay has been going down to some of the lowest amounts in history the percentage of the tax revenue that they pay (meaning what the government collects in tax dollars), compared to the other income groups, has actually been going up. In the 80s the top 5% paid something like 29 % of the taxes, in the 90s it was 34% and in the 2000s they averaged about 40%. That bizarre remark is completely factual, look it up.

          • TomK_in_Boston

            So what? The rich are paying more of the tax because they have more of the income. If 100 romney types had all the income, they would pay all the income tax, but I wouldn’t use the word “burden” in that context :)

            The only thing that matters is the rate, and, far from being “burdened”, our romney types are living in rich white boy paradise.

          • pete18

            No, rates do not reflect what people ultimately pay or what the government collects.
            The rich are paying a larger burden now, relative to the income they make, then they did in 1979.
            The top 1% earned 8.9% of the nation’s income in ’79 and paid
            14.2% of all federal taxes. In 2009 they earned
            13.4% of the income and paid
            22.3% of
            all federal taxes.

          • TomK_in_Boston

            The top rate is now second lowest since 1929 and con artists like romney who can claim all their income as cap gains have the lowest rate, 15%. The estate tax has been gutted. Stop spinning. We are in an ultra low tax environment at the top. The only burden on the rich is the weight of their money.

            The endless regurgitation of talking points from 1980, with no reference to the current situations, is nonsense. Sure, if the rich were struggling, job creation might suffer and it would make sense to cut taxes at the top. That is not our situation! The rich are richer than ever, wealth is being rapidly redistributed to the top, and the public sector is getting crushed. The policy has to respond to the current reality, my friend. We need much higher taxes at the top. The only reason for more tax cuts is simply to let the rich grab more. 

        • TomK_in_Boston

          Anyone who doesn’t know that THAT in the above refers to the teacher, the infrastructure, etc is not a native English speaker and probably will be deported if the TeaOP has anything to say about it.

    • jefe68

      The level of inanity in this post says it all.

      • William

         You often find difficulty dealing with the truth. I understand it is difficult to constantly defend what Obama says, but he said it, he means it. So just “man up” and take it.

        • Steve__T

           ” You often find difficulty dealing with the truth”

          Go to a mirror and re-pete that over and over.

        • jefe68

          The level of the inanity of this post says it all, and more. 

          • William

            Did you hear about the new party slogan? “Economic Patriotism”?…this is going to turn things around…well..at least better than “Recovery Summer”….

    • StilllHere

      Not enough of them to matter; entitlement check recipients, now there’s a constituency worth pandering to.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Hey Jack, they had the video since May.  It didn’t drop into their lap last week. I have a bridge to sell you.

    • Ray in VT

      Are you talking about the 47% video?  If so, then whether or not Mother Jones had it since then seems rather irrelevant to me, and it certainly landed in the lap of the public last week (or was it the week before now?).

    • Steve__T

       Better yet sell Romney that plane with the windows that roll down.

      • DrewInGeorgia

        Plane hell, my vote is for a submarine with said windows.

      • jefe68

        That was a hoot of a comment by Romney.
        Some on the right are saying he was joking.
        OK then he’s now putting the other foot in his mouth, as he was commenting on his wife’s plane having an electrical fire.

        Next Mitt Romney will want sliding doors and a balcony for first class.

        • Steve__T

           When I heard it It sounded  very sincere  “I don’t know why the don’t have them?”

      • gonkers

        Next Romney will be insisting on open-air observation decks on the wings… with railings for safety. Decks reserved for First Class passengers only… of course!

  • DrewInGeorgia

    To the caller who said Romney does not want a war: Get a clue.
    Of course he wants a war.

    We need to responsibly determine who is accountable for the assault and hold them to task. Period. And there’s no discussion of Military Action against Libya, does invading Iran in retaliation for an Embassy attack in Libya sound eerily familiar? And Unilateral Support for Israel regardless of their actions and practices? Yeah, that’s a great idea…

  • sickofthechit

    Register, double-check your registration, get your friends and family to do the same, help transport voters to the polls.  Then on November 6th turn out in record numbers to defeat Republican Politicians (Repugnicans) and give Obama a true “Super Majority” and we may just be able to begin to
    “heal the planet” and “slow the rise of the waters”.  A vote for the republican candidate straight out of the 1950′s is a vote against mankind.

    Remember,
    “They may have all the money, but we have all the votes”  Charles A. Bowsher

  • Ray in VT

    I saw this yesterday, and I’m sure that some of you will dislike the source, but give it a read.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/27/mitt-romney-sensata-tax-break_n_1920396.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

    I think that this story is a prime example of what is wrong with our system and how skewed some things have gotten in recent decades.  I think that this all comes down to money, and some people wanting to not just make a decent amount of money, but maybe astronomical amounts of money no matter what the consequences may be for those who are affected by the moves of executives and financiers.

    • DrewInGeorgia

      Didn’t read the linked article but I wholeheartedly agree that Unmitigated Greed is always the underlying motivator. The more money that stands to be made the more easily atrocities are rationalized. Money may not be the root of all evil but the love of it certainly is.

      • Ray in VT

        I may not follow that book, but it does have some nice wisdom in it.

        • DrewInGeorgia

          All of the Religious Texts hold wisdom, The Bible holds no monopoly in that respect. I believe in the underlying principle of Christianity which in my view is to simply treat the one next to you better than yourself. That’s  about as far as it goes with me. Every time I hear anyone picking and choosing Old Testament bile to justify acts contrary to Christianity’s fundamental tenant I think: Gee. miss the forest for the trees much?

          • Ray in VT

            You mean that we shouldn’t be stoning people for the abomination of wearing a shirt made from two fabrics as Leviticus says?

          • Thinkin5

             Ah, the wisdom of the ages. Just like our founding fathers’ mistake of excluding women and blacks from voting, we, who live in the ‘here and now’, have a duty to amend and update our wisdom.

    • Steve__T

       I posted a similar link a week ago no body noticed but our friends, that said, He does not own Baine bla bla bla.

      • Ray in VT

        And I don’t think that one could or should lay this one on Romney if he’s not currently involved in running the company, but it is very illustrative of how business has been done by some in recent decades.

        • Steve__T

           If I were in his shoes at this time I would want to at least talk to them, to be able to say, well least I tried. It would have been better than ignoring them, and he would at least look like he cared about Americans loosing their jobs to China.

           But they are part of the 47% you know beggars, who just want a hand out.

          • Ray in VT

            If I were Mitt Romney, then boy would I be ticked off at Bain for rolling this one out in the run up to the election.  I think that it is a bit of a no win situation for him, because even if he does express some sympathy for the situation, then he will still get hammered for other times when Bain did similar things.

    • hennorama

      HuffPo is a bit late to the party – I noted the Sensata/Bain issue 6 days ago, on the day after the Romneys’ 2011 return was released:

      “Of the deductions claimed, some of the non-cash contributions were of shares of stock in Sensata Technologies. Sensata is owned by Bain Capital, the private equity firm founded by Mitt Romney, and is currently in the process of outsoucing 170 jobs to China.  Workers at their Illinois plant have to train their Chinese replacements.”

  • Thinkin5

    I love how Mitt gets all worked up over the prospect of coal miners or military jobs being lost but it’s “tough for you” if it’s auto workers, or teachers, or anyone else who gets the pink slip. Isn’t that “selecting winners”?

  • NewtonWhale
  • TinaWrites

    I am SO exasperated!!!  Why doesn’t the WHOLE WORLD imitate WHAT WORKS???!!!  The Scandinavian countries have the right mix:  strong economies, and high enough taxes to pay for much needed services thruout the LifeSpan. 

    Even if it is something that countries have to move TOWARD, why can’t the Scandinavian formulae be the GOAL of each and every country?  

    • gonkers

      Most democratic nations do not have an anti-democratic,
      dysfunctional and braindead political system as we do in the US. In the US a
      mere 18% of the population gets 52% of the seats in the Senate and a mere 4.5%
      of the population can block any amendment. Presidents can be imposed on the
      nation even after being rejected by the People. Toss in our nutty belief in our
      own exceptionalism… and it’s a toxic mix.

       

       

      It comes as no surprise other nations can devise more
      functional societies.

       

      • TinaWrites

        Great reply!  Thanks for the facts and figures!  I’m trying to compile a compendium of such things!

    • DrewInGeorgia

      And look what happens when one of those ‘enlightened’ Nations you mention decides to let the door swing the other way. Iceland decided to give American creative financing and deregulation practices a try and Generations of gain were eradicated in just a few years. But America just knows that the rest of The World should follow the leader, never mind the fact that the self-designated head lemming is in the process of stepping off the cliff edge.

      • TinaWrites

        Thanks so much for the reminder about Iceland, for the overall tone of your post!!  Excellent!

        Did you get to hear the MarketPlace show when it joined up with the BBC to ask the question, Did We Get The Banks that We Deserve (it was aired the weekend of Sept. 29 and 30).  A banker whose bank is owned by a bank in Canada (perhaps The Bank of Canada?  I’m not sure), reminded everyone that Canada did NOT get rid of that protective dividing line between regular retail banks (that give out mortgages responsibly and then RETAIN the mortgages), and banks that started fooling around with risky investment schemes.  Canada did NOT suffer from this horrid mishap.  They may be affected by having to deal with troubled institutions around the world, but their banks did NOT need bailouts because they never engaged in the shenanigans.  (I’m sorry:  I always forget the name of the FDR-era bill that Clinton signed into oblivion that made the preventive barrier go away; hence my long explanation here.)

        The show was pretty interesting, but I would have preferred it if they had explained, or reminded us, what a lot of the terms they used meant up front, like a glossary.  Terms like “trenching”.  Sometimes the economic terms came on four deep!  One speaker thought that the politicians should stop demonizing one economic scheme versus another and instead explain to the American public how various economic factors work.  Maybe OnPoint could do a show like this!!  One could go back and listen to the podcast and then google all the terms, then listen to the podcast again, and I have sometimes had some time for a little of this.  I try to be as informed as I can be to feel there is some legitimacy to my opinions, but I still have work to do to feel at ease with the terms; I expect most Americans who did not study economics do.  To provide real public information, why not assume we don’t know very much, would like to know more, and are ready to listen; then don’t speak so fast that we can barely keep up (Eliot Spitzer was a guest on this show and he speaks spitfire fast.)

        I was surprised to hear that something I’ve been asking lately — why do we have to go for growth instead of going for sustainability, especially if or when going for growth involves too much risk — was actually a topic that was raised!  Again, wouldn’t it be interesting to learn how a term that can be as generic as “growth” is used when it is used in the context of economics?!!  

        • DrewInGeorgia

          I did catch the BBC/Marketplace show Saturday and I really enjoyed it. As for your question regarding growth versus sustainability, the explanation is pretty straight forward: Incessant Growth carries large short term gains as an inherent effect while sustainability invariably requires short term gains to be decreased in favor of long term viability. Greed is never good, you’d think we would have figured that out by now.

          • TinaWrites

            Thanks so much for the reply and for the clear explanation about growth/sustainability!  

  • John_in_Amherst

    Any sane compassionate person must empathize with the plight of Jews following the holocaust.  However, Israel’s hard-liners rely on the premise that God gave the title to the Holy Land to the Jews.  For those of us who do not include “real estate broker” in God’s job description, at least some of the Israeli tactics toward the Palestinians are offensive.  “An eye for an eye will leave the whole world blind” 

  • Thinkin5

    The problem with the Ryan plan is that after you get the numbers worked out and the cuts to the poor and people who depend on the meager support that they get, what happens to those people after the cuts? Where do you get the money to pay for balance of your health care premium? Maybe they can offer real life suggestions for those people.

  • Steve_the_Repoman

    In the US we have the FED to cover for us….?

    Jack Beatty did you listen to yourself, did you inadvertantly speak the truth?

    QE 5…6…7…8…who is going to call in US debt?

    • StilllHere

      Free money, like government spending. What’s to worry?

  • http://twitter.com/wadedawg25 Matthew Wade

    Stop giving Ryan credit for anything! He’s a fraud and con-artist!

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       How so?

      • http://twitter.com/wadedawg25 Matthew Wade

        His proposed budget cuts taxes for the wealthy but doesn’t show how he’ll pay for them. The CBO laughed him outta the room when she had them score it.

      • http://twitter.com/wadedawg25 Matthew Wade

        Also, he wants to turn medicare into a voucher program, but not for 10 years. If its such a great idea, why wait? Oh right, because its a terrible idea and will bankrupt medicare by 2017 and will get 0 votes from senior citizens. kicking the can down the road.

      • Mike_Card

        ryan.com

  • http://twitter.com/wadedawg25 Matthew Wade

    “The problem with the Romney campaign is not the alleged ideological incoherence of his political resume. The problem is that he’s trying to appeal to a party full of moral monsters.”

    Read more: http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/mitt-romney-health-care-reaction-13166210#ixzz27mBq62q7

  • Thinkin5

    Can’t Iran attack Israel without a nuclear bomb?
     

  • Steve__T

    Deleted

  • StilllHere

    Another downward revision to GDP!  Time to raise taxes!  At least according to Obama.

    Durable goods orders down 13.2% in August! Enjoy the Obama recovery!  

    Pending home sales down 2.6% in August!  Please four more years of this!

    • Thinkin5

      I thought those W. tax cuts, especially to the wealthy, gave the economy a boost? Didn’t tax cuts kick up the hiring and create new jobs??!! That’s the Repcon prescription so where’s the results?

      • StilllHere

        They did but they can’t offset the crushing regulation and threat of huge increases in taxes that now hang over the whole economy like cloud of doom brought to us by the Democrat party and Obama.

        • Thinkin5

          The “crushing regulation” and “threat of huge increase in taxes” are the propaganda of the right. Basically, they are the enemy and are hurting the country for their political gain. Just like the NRA’s threat of “Obama wants to take away your guns!!” “Quick! Buy more!!” No new laws or proposed laws from Obama but the rightwing “threats”. I have yet to hear anyone actually give an example of the “crushing regulations” that they speak of. I’ve even asked business owners and they say they don’t have any.

          • Steve__T

             Something else for though, Ask if any small to mid level business owner could get a lone to start or increase their business. You may find this to be more crushing than any invisible regulation.

          • Ray in VT

            That is part of the irony of our current situation.  We in part got into our financial mess due to the easy access to credit by people who shouldn’t have been able to get it, and now, as a response, lending standards have tightened up so that that hopefully doesn’t happen again, which causes issues for some.  I got my home loan in 2007 under the more lax standards, but I probably couldn’t now.

        • gonkers

          You mean the tax cuts could not inoculate the economy from
          crashing from BUSH’S over-regulation?

           

           

          Like those silly prophets who are always wrong about the end
          of the world they predicted, True Believers in irresponsible tax cuts ALWAYS
          find some excuse to salvage the myth they are magic bullets for all that ails us.

           

          The lesson for the more rational amongst us is just because
          something is plausible doesn’t make it true.

          • StilllHere

            There is no such thing as an irrational tax cut, only irrational spending.

          • gonkers

            THANKS for proving my point.

            The Orwellian Right has sabotaged the collective IQ of the nation on fiscal matters by spreading such nonsense.

            Of COURSE there are irresponsible tax cuts… like when in 2001 we were on the verge of paying down debt… and Bush SABOTAGED that effort with round after round of massive tax cuts.

          • StilllHere

            On the verge of … too funny! Except the tax revenue bubble was bursting …

          • Mike_Card

            Really?

          • StilllHere

            Yes.  Individuals and enterprises should keep the maximum amount of their production as possible that sustains the smallest amount of government necessary.

          • Steve__T

             You’re irrational why not ?

        • http://www.facebook.com/kent.rinne.7 Kent Rinne

          Once upon a time “job creators” and “entrepreners” were synonymous with creativity, inovation and hard work. Today, according to conservatives when a business fails it’s because of “over regulation and high taxes”, in other words “It’s the governments fault”. The GOP are making “entrepreners” and “job creators” synonymous with bailouts, welfare and whining. Republicans need to take some responsibility for their own actions.

        • gonkers

          You mean those “job creators” are VICTIMS????   ROTF

          • StilllHere

            The victims are those whom the job creators would have hired, the US economy and freedom.

          • gonkers

            The Right is a secular religion of half-truths. In reality NO one group… workers or business owners… gets all the credit for an economy. But once you accept either narrative, then it automatically leads towards towards certain policy directions.

          • StilllHere

            The Left is a secular religion of lies focused on victimization and dependency on the nanny state run by Leftist, self-preserving bureaucrats.  Their state is a vampire squid sucking the life out of productive endeavor of any kind.

          • Thinkin5

             Judging by the ever expanding, huge income disparity, it’s the  top 2% or so that are the “vampires sucking the life out of productive endeavor” and the incomes of the middle class.

          • hennorama

            Please please please explain how lower tax rates can magically result in more jobs.

            Is this the logic?:

            Let’s say an employer will earn a profit of $10,000 by hiring a new employee.  Let’s assume the employer’s Fed. tax rate (FTR) is currently 35%.  So the after-tax amount the employer gets from hiring someone is $6500.

            Now let’s assume Romney’s proposed rates are enacted.  Now the employer’s FTR is 28%, and after tax the employer keeps $7200, which is  $700 more that right now.

            Do you really expect people to believe that the employer would NOT hire right now, give up $6500 in profits, and instead will wait for a mere $700 more after tax?

            What idiot would do that?

            Do you expect any sane businessperson would give up profits of $6500 year after year, in the hope of being able to keep another $700 sometime in the future?  This is why you think hiring is slow?

            Absurd.

          • OnPointComments

            The flaw in the logic is that hiring a new employee doesn’t usually result in immediate profit.  It’s more of a sales & income ‘rise-plateau-fall, rise-plateau-fall’ scenario:  current employees are at max production (the plateau); there aren’t enough sales to cover the cost of an additional employee, but the employer hires the new employee anyway forecasting that sales will evenually increase (income falls for a while); sales rise, and the employer hits the production plateau again, starting the cycle over.
             
            It may be that for 6 months or more, the new employee will cost the business and not result in more profit.  If the employer has to bear all of that cost, the hiring decision may be delayed until the employer is fairly certain that the additional sales will materialize.  If the economy is poor, the decision may be delayed for a longer period.  If the government in effect subsidizes the cost of the new employee through lower tax rates, the hiring decision can happen sooner.

          • hennorama

            Thank you for your response. I’m glad to see someone step up to try to explain Mr. Romney’s ideas, as he seems to be struggling to do so.

            My post does make an assumption, in effect “new employee = $10K in profits.” Clearly, this is overly simplistic, as your comment indicates. This was for illustrative purpose rather than as an economic concept, but your comment is appreciated, as it presents more information to the reader.

            Your comment supports my overall thesis that demand is the key to hiring and economic growth. As you indicate, it makes little sense for employers to hire without higher anticipated demand. Without increased demand resulting in higher sales, profits can only be maintained or increased through cost-cutting and higher efficiency.

            Additionally, this argues for targeted tax incentives for hiring, which would be another way that “…the government in effect subsidizes the cost of the new employee …”

            However, my point is that Mr. Romney’s supposition/argument of “cut taxes = many more jobs” assumes in effect that employers are NOT hiring simply because their taxes are too high. I find this position to be unsupportable, ergo my “What idiot would do this?” argument.

            Thanks again for your reply.

      • William

         Obama embraced them and enacted his own tax cuts too boot.

        • gonkers

          Obama foolishly extended these irresponsible tax cuts. But his own proposals are little better. If we never could afford ANY of the irresponsible Bush tax cuts, then favoring some is still irresponsible.

        • Thinkin5

           So, as Obama says, “We tried that and it didn’t work.” Now the Repcons want us to do the same failed strategy again! No thanks! Even people who hardly pay attention to the details of economic policy get that. They also see that the top income brackets have made record profits the last 3.5 yrs. and they are the biggest whiners and Obama haters!

    • gonkers

      While I’m not happy about the economy… or Obama for that matter… I’ll GLADLY take this month… Sept 2012, to Sept 2008 even if you wouldn’t.

    • hennorama

      Yes, the economy is not doing as well as we all wish, but it is GROWING.

      Let’s talk about housing a bit more, and add what you omitted:

      “New Home Prices Rise to 5-Year High

      The median price of a new home increased a record 11.2 percent to $256,900 – this is the highest median price for a new home since March 2007, adding to signs of a slow recovery in the housing market.

      Compared with August last year, the median sales price jumped 17 percent, the largest year-over-year rise since December 2004.”

      Source: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2012/09/new-home-prices-rise-to-5-five-year-high/

      And let’s see how stock markets reacted when the durable goods orders report came out.  After all, the market is always right, isn’t it?

      “Markets are trading slightly higher early on Thursday despite a much larger than expected drop in Durable Goods orders in August. The report from the U.S. Census Bureau showed a decline of 30.1 billion or 13.2% versus an expected drop of 5%. The decrease was the first drop in three months and the largest drop since January of 2009. The contraction was triggered by a large decline in transportation equipment, which fell 34.9 percent. Excluding transportation, new orders decreased 1.6 percent.The report showed shipments of equipment fell 3 percent. Unfilled orders declined by 1.7 percent. And inventories of manufactured goods rose again by 0.60 percent to $371.6 billion. This is the highest level since the series was first published in 1992.”

      Oh, so orders declined, but inventories are at record levels.  Hmmm … what could this mean?  Do manufacturers anticipate higher demand and build inventory?  Could be.

      Source:  http://www.streetinsider.com/Economic+Data/Durable+Goods+Orders+Choked+by+Decline+in+Transportation+Equipment/7754297.html

      • StilllHere

        Orders are future inventory, numbnuts.
        Where in the public sector do you work?

        • hennorama

          Egad! I’m wounded by your scintillating repartee! Please stop!

          Please.

          Interesting how your reply omits commenting about the RECENT state of affairs, which was the topic of the report.

          Also interesting that you do not counter the fact the GDP is GROWING, or that new home prices are up at a RECORD pace.

          Your ONLY response is to resort to an insult. Very nice. Very classy.

          Congratulations on your ever so self-humiliating response.

          • StilllHere

            It’s obvious that you have little understanding of the economic variables you are attempting to discuss.  Trying to educate you would be a futile and wasted effort. 

          • hennorama

            Congratulations once again!  Your skill in debate is exceptional and apparent! 

            Please, take a bow!

            Please.

            Absent an argument, you resort once again to the tried-and-failed “attack the messenger” tactic.  Well done!

          • Ray in VT

            That’s pretty much how the guy rolls.  I especially love how he(?) asks “what part of the public sector do you work in?”

  • gonkers

    A bit off topic:

    Paul Ryan’s admiration for Ayn Rand is well known. Yet there’s a psychopathology at the heart of Rand that often goes overlooked. For instance, Rand is fanatical about individualism, free will, and private property rights…. but…

    In her ham-handed novel The Fountainhead, protagonist architect Roark is the hero of the novel for dynamiting the new housing project he does not own all because those who hired him broke their word to him. Roark COULD have remained consistent with Rand’s respect private property and voluntary market interactions by simply walking away from the project if he believed those who hired him had no integrity.

    Rand always had a penchant for sociopaths who make their own rules… even if they violate her highest claimed values. What Ryan’s admiration for Rand’s underlying sociopathy says about him is another matter.

  • Dee

    Someone should show Netanyahu and his war mongers 
    the door today….They are like the vulture Capitalist class today…They will devour their victims and still come back 
    and ask for more…Sometimes , I feel they have no souls.

    As Salman Abu Sitta says in his eye witness award video 
    on the events of 1948 & 1967 notes this “Zionist policies 
    have always been…we want the land …we don’t want the people…http://www.plands.org/videos/005.html

    What soulless racist & fascism that is and someone said 
    the way they have the Palestinian people caged in the Palestinian Territories (over 400 checkpoints alone in the 
    West Bank) and blocked off in Gaza Strip -forcing Gazans
    to use underground tunnels to move their goods in and out…one can begin to sense what an evil entity they re-
    present today and why the world hates Israel’s guts today.

    I am totally convinced this evil Zionist Regime and its 
    apologists in the US and around the world will see their 
    state abandoned and unfortunately I will be glad….

    Yet it is not what I want for the Israeli people. Still, no 
    people –can promote their tribe on the backs of an-
    other peoples’ homeland & their natural resources. They
    will eventually , invalidated themselves as people pull 
    back and away from them. It’s self inflicting kind of de-
    struction in the end… 

    The Former Attorney of Israel warned of this in his 2003
    Haaretz Op-ed but Israeli leaders haven’t a damned thing
    to turn back the tide on this but keep upping the ante for 
    a war anywhere…this time on Iran… (They have been re-
    sponsible for 6-8 regional wars against their neighbors sin-
    ce the state was created. Yet the next global war against t
    them will not entail weapons but outright abandonment.) 
    Still, it doesn’t have to end this way…not at all. Dee

    http://www.seruv.org.il/english/article.asp?msgid=77&type=article

    Disgusted , Dee.

    P.S. I couldn’t get over one day I saw a picture of 
    people building settlerments and guess who the 
    workers were– Palestinians forced into this kind of 
    immoral and illegal labor to put bread on their own 
    family’s table…This is how ugly and wrong the US/
    Zionist entity has gotten today-and why I imagine 
    it shames Jews all over the world today…….

    • mtalebzadeh

       I totally agree with you. At this point in time Israeal have a chance to have an independent country accepted by moslem world, but no they want the whole thing. As long as they have capitalist Zionist of united staes backing them, it will be difficult to bring them on the peace talk.

    • jacob_arnon

      Dee, you have been reading too much Stalin, haven’t you.

      The so called “land you are talking about is about the size of Long Island.

      The Arabs have twenty some countries and Jews inhabit a country the size of a postage stamp yet this antisemite begrudges them even that.

      You are not for peace, you are for the elimination of Jewish sovereignty.

       

  • Dee

    addendum;

    Inventing an Iranian Threat , Stephen Lendman
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/inventing-an-iranian-threat/

    (Check out other investigative reports by this author too.
    Especially, The Austerity Hoax (By the Banks & Governments)

  • gonkers

    At InTrade, Romney has plummeted from about a 35% chance of winning a week ago to 21.1% chance today.

    http://www.intrade.com/v4/home/

    • gonkers

      Like the bad opinion polls, InTrade has joined the vast
      liberal conspiracy to suppress the GOP vote. ROTF

       

      That being said I might “buy” Romney when he falls
      to 10%. At this rate that should be next Wednesday. One can never underestimate the REAL conspiracy to BUY the election with Koch Brother ads and to suppress the
      Democratic vote with bogus voter ID laws.

    • hennorama

      Hmmm … if this holds, and Mr. Romney loses, how quickly do you think we’ll hear “Well, I guess the market IS always right …” from his Mr Romney and his cohort?

      And if the opposite occurs, will we hear “Well … the market’s always right, until it isn’t.” ?

      Just asking.

  • Dee

    Here is the South Africa Research Group on Israel’s 
    Occupation, Colonialism and Apartheid in the Pale-
    stinian Territory….

    http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_55932.shtml

  • jason belcher
  • jason belcher

    Hi Tom, I was a caller on your show yesterday discussing Iran; we ran out of time but I continued the discussion and what I wanted to say on my blog; the title of the post is “Would You Vote to Authorize the Use of Force Against Iran?”  http://theruraldemocrat.typepad.com/the_rural_democrat/2012/09/would-you-vote-to-authorize-the-use-of-force-against-iran.html

    • John B

      No more war in the middle east! Enough already!

  • Michiganjf

    Poor, Poor Republicans…

    ALL of the media is against them, ALL of the pollsters have it in for them, ALL of the educated and elite have it in for them, ALL of Hollywood is against them, ALL of the debate moderators will have it in for them (even BEFORE the debates)…

    Where do the POOR, POOR, ‘Pubbies find any support at all?

    How convenient for them!

    • Ray in VT

      Man, talk about a victim mentality.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      I am not a Republican but I will feel sorry for the media on November 6th when they have their jaws agape at the disbelief that we will be welcoming President Romney next January.

      Actually, I won’t feel sorry for them.

      • gonkers

        Of course you’re not a Republican. No one here ever would accuse you of being partisan.

        • Thinkin5

           Since the crash of 2008 many Republicans changed their label to “Independent”. That gives them cover while they support the same policies that they did before. Well, at least THEY think it does.

      • hennorama

        Worried I’m a tad concerned about you.  You keep leaving out “mainstream” when discussing “the media.”  Not to put words into your mouth, but you aren’t including Fox News and Rush Limbaugh et al in your use of “the media,” right?

        Just checking.

      • 1Brett1

        Yeah, you’re not a Republican, but you play one on NPR forums…

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           I support Romney but no because he is a Republican.  He is the only electable politician in the race with the balls to address our debt and fiscal woes.  Also, I believe he will try and get the government out of the way of economic growth.

          I could go on and on about Mr. Obama’s failures in leadership but this crowd isn’t really interested.

          So yes, I am starting with the bias that Mr. Obama should be fired but it is based solely on his actions and inactions.

          If, Mr. Obama had pushed for something serious like Simpson-Bowles then he would be worthy of consideration.

          • 1Brett1

            Well, you’ve commented enough for any reasonable person to draw a reasonable conclusion about your “bias.” …by Obama’s “actions and inactions,” you mean things he’s done that you don’t like (actions) and things he hasn’t done you would like (inactions). Unfortunately, we are all familiar with your likes and dislikes, but I digress. If you think that Romney wishes to take up residence in the White House to do anything more than manipulate tax codes and business regulations to favor himself and his ilk, and to build his rolodex, as it were, for when he gets out of office, then you are naive. 

          • WorriedfortheCountry

             Gee Brett, you have a very cynical take on Romney’s motives.  That’s OK.  I’m sure in your view Obama’s motives are self less and he is the next incarnation of Gandhi.

            If Mr. Romney had not left business and gone into public service he would surely be a billionaire by now just as his ex-business partners are now.

            Romney is set for life and he is self made.  He is probably the least corruptible politician to run in decades.

            Now let’s look at Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi.  Harry Reid is a multimillionaire but is a life long bureaucrat.  Nancy Pelosi’s net worth increased 62% in 2011 to $48 million — just before the congressional insider trading laws go into effect.

          • 1Brett1

            No, you’re not sure of anything, although you may think so. No, I don’t think any politician’s motives are pure, that’s much too one-dimensional thinking. 

            Romney is not self made. Again, you’re either being disingenuous or naive. 

            The wealthy will never miss an opportunity to become more wealthy.  And, while you may see Romney as moral, I don’t. I think he’s amoral. He’s interested in power not just money.

            Why bring up Pelosi or Reid? Their behaviors don’t change the value of Romney’s behaviors either way. Everything is some sort of perceived tit-fro-tat to you guys, the very epitome of pseudo-logic.

          • Gregg Smith

            Wow.

          • 1Brett1

            Bow.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

          No, Worried is not a Republcan. He’s a TruePrincipledConservative.

          The amazing thing is that, to hear everyone tell it, nobody now was a Republican then when GWB was wrecking this nation and (for example) having his minions tell me that I was a traitor for saying “let the inspectors do their jobs”.

          Statistically speaking, WFTC is one of what must be 400 million people who were always TPCs, but yet somehow never were able to exert their superior numbers to keep Bush from ruining things.

          It’s like listening to the stories of the 3 million people who now claim they saw Wilt Chamberlain score 100 points in that NBA game in Hershey PA a half century ago: Many of them are lying, and it can’t statistically be true.

          WFTC is not lying, per se, but he has this feeling that there are a great number of people with his viewpoint, and those people don’t statistically exist.

          • 1Brett1

            Statistics? Don’t you mean inconvenient data used by pesky fact checkers? Why, facts should be either manipulated or out and out dismissed! [sarcasm]

            How can Republicans rid society of such problems as women’s access to reproductive choices, true religious freedom, and honest elections when the electorate is exposed to facts?

  • John B

    Listening to this show in the car this morning I can’t help but be reminded of the massive cheer-leading by the free press in this country in the run-up to the war in Iraq. SHAME on the reporters on this show for doing so once again. This nation has more important things to worry about at the moment than to have “journalists” like the ones present on this mornings show going on and on and on about Libya and Iran.  We’ve had ENOUGH war in the middle east.

    How many of the guests on this show have family in the armed services?

    Again, shame on you all – enough cheer-leading for war. This is about nothing for you people but ratings and I can only hope that the majority of the people listening to this show can see it for what it really is.

  • John B

    Even the two callers on the middle east were pathetically transparent – a lady saying Obama should be more “American” and support Israel followed by an Iranian American critical of Israel?

    I cannot believe this garbage is being put forth by NPR, it’s a travesty. The American people have had enough of our decade of war in the middle east, how many more American men and women need to die fighting useless wars before they finally understand? Let Israel fight it’s own damned wars.

  • gonkers

    Ann Romney’s idea of “living on the edge” as told in 1994;

    “Mitt was still in school and we had no income except the stock we were chipping away at. We were living on the edge, not entertaining. No, I did not work. Mitt thought it was important for me to stay home with the children, and I was delighted.”

    Ann Romney 2012 on NBC:

    “Well, I think the– the thing that I want to communicate to people, and that it’s so important that people understand, is that Mitt and I do recognize that we have not had a financial struggle in our lives. But I want people to believe in their hearts that we know what it is like to struggle.

    I bet she does!

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Did typing that make you feel good?

      • gonkers

        Given your only response is a pathetic attempt to divert attention from what I wrote and make me the issue, I have assume you’re admitting Ann’s phony “living on the edge” story is laughable but just can’t admit it.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           It was a gratuitous attack.

          DO you really think she enjoys talking about her personal life?  Actually, I feel for most of these spouses on both sides.

          • gonkers

            You’re still predictably ignoring her disingenuous tale of woe. For the Romney’s “living on the edge” is not having an elevator for Ann’s Cadillacs. But then the Right is really into the phony “pity the poor millionaire” pseudo drama.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

             Do you get upset when Michelle lectures us on what we can eat and then is caught stuffing her face with cheeseburgers and ice cream?

            Please.

          • gonkers

            You just wrote three posts and in each on evaded the issue I wrote about.

          • gonkers

            BTW I know three people with MS. My neighbor across the street contracted it when he was in highschool. He’s been in a wheelchair for the past 25 years. My friend’s wife contracted it 30 years ago. She’s home-bound and needs a cane. My best friend got it when he was about 50 and he can barely walk now even with a walker. Two of them are on SSI disability.

            Ann Romney is fortunate she’s is in remission and will have the best care money can buy.

            I have to wonder what’s in store for the people I know in Romney/Ryan’s Brave New World.

          • Steve__T

             ” You feel for most of these spouses on both sides”.
            Do you know who one sided that is?

            Of course you do.

    • OnPointComments

      Fact-Checking Michelle Obama’s DNC Speech: Nearly Entire Speech False Except Her NameMichelle Obama Was Never Poor.  Barack Obama Was Never Poor Either.
      http://www.theconservativereview.com/2012/09/05/fact-checking-michelle-obamas-dnc-speech-nearly-entire-speech-false-except-her-name/

      • gonkers

        Hey, I’m not a Dem. I didn’t vote for Obama nor do I like him. I’ve been quite clear about that in numerous posts. So your lame attempt to turn the tables on me will get you nowhere. Once you deal with the pathetic fairytale the Romney’s are peddling then you can rant and rave about the Obamas all you want. Maybe I’ll join you.  

  • 1Brett1

    Mitt’s narrowly clinging neocon base will most likely stick with him until his bitter end…and a bitter end ‘t’will be for him and you poor ideologues, as this will not be enough for him to win…

  • gonkers

    Rush and others on the Orwellian Right are claiming that Romney’s poor poll numbers reflect some vast liberal conspiracy to suppress GOP voter turnout. Is there any real evidence of a conspiracy? Of course not. True Believers on the Right are to believe what they’re told… “Don’t doubt be on this” is one of Rush’s favorite sayings.

    While I can understand the political need to keep up the spirits of the Right as Romney seems to be in crash & burn mode,  there’s a downside to this tactic. Should Obama win, the True Believers aren’t going to look at the likes of Rush and blame him for lying. They’re more likely to believe the election was stolen and the results are illegitimate. The irony will be all the more amusing since it’s the GOP that’s trying to steal the election through voter suppression.  

  • William

    Thomas Edsall suggests that Obama has written off white, non-college graduate, voters. (The Politics of Anything that Goes)

  • OnPointComments

    The Senate Foreign Relations Committee, chaired by Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., is asking for an “accounting of the attacks against U.S. missions in Egypt, Libya and Yemen.” The story that the Obama Administration told for a week has unraveled and proven false.  It’s beginning to smell like a coverup.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-RZEg-lJV8&feature=player_embedded

  • hennorama

    Mr. Romney says his tax and economic proposals will result in enormous economic growth, and lots of jobs.  That would be great, right?  We all want this.

    This theory has never been definitively proven, so why don’t we “trust but verify,” like Pres. Reagan was so fond of saying. Let’s test the confidence of those who believe Mr. Romney’s proposed tax cuts and policies will result in job creation and rapid economic growth.

    What if we made Mr. Romney’s proposed tax changes conditional?  In other words,  we change the code so that your taxes will go down if you, personally, add jobs, and/or make investments that lead directly to new jobs.

    We could also make it so that if the economy improves at a
    significantly higher rate than it is growing at the moment, EVERYONE
    gets a tax cut.  If individuals, businesses and governments change prospectively, resulting in what Mr. Romney says will happen, then you can have the tax cuts.

    Why not make the cuts conditioned on a series of measurements?  Let’s say GDP.  We measure the current rate, and if Romney’s changes work and GDP goes up by a much higher rate, then everyone gets a tax cut.

    Or we could use unemployment, and link it to federal support programs.  If, as a result of you hiring someone who has been receiving UI, SNAP, TANF, AFDC, housing, or other Federal support program, the new worker then no longer needs the support, you get a tax cut, and a bonus.  The longer the new worker’s been on these programs, the bigger your bonus.

    We could also link this to the deficit and debt.  If the defict and/or
    debt declines by a certain amount as a result of the economic growth, everyone gets a tax cut.

    One recent article might interest those who believe the “tax cuts =
    economic growth” theory:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/study-tax-cuts-dont-lead-to-growth-2012-9

    Comments anyone?

    • OnPointComments

      Measurements and conditional changes all sound reasonable to me.  I wish we had done that $6 trillion dollars ago.

      • hennorama

        Thank you again for your direct response.

        We could argue that conditional changes would have been good $16 trillion of debt ago, rather than limiting it to $6 trillion, but let’s focus on my concept instead.

        Making tax cuts conditional would perhaps be an effective way to counter the argument that the true motive behind Mr. Romney’s proposals is simply to further benefit “the 1%.” Cutting taxes only AFTER America receives a benefit, such as increased hiring of the long-term unemployed, or more rapid economic growth, removes the potential risk of new tax cuts simply widening the deficit and increasing the debt.

        I just find the idea intriguing, and wonder what others think.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Ask Blodget about the internet bubble.

      It is not just tax cuts.  It is tax REFORM.

      74,000 pages of tax law into the shredder type reform.

      • OnPointComments

        I couldn’t agree more.  The current tax code is a journal of congressional corruption over the past 25 years and should be scrapped.

      • hennorama

        Thank you for your response.

        I hear your point about Mr. Blodget’s past, but his credibility is not at issue, as he was not the author of the studies he cited. The Congressional research Service reports are generally viewed as being objective, comprehensive and accurate.

        Tax reform and “74,000 pages of tax law into the shredder…” is a laudable goal. Unlikely to occur, but laudable.

        And (tongue firmly in cheek here) Mr. Romney is threatening the jobs of tens of thousands of accountants and tax preparers, and the viability of tax preparation and tax software firms!

        Mr. Romney also seems to be muddling his arguments. Just 3 days ago, Mr. Romney said “Don’t be expecting a huge cut in taxes, because I’m also going to be closing loopholes on deductions.”

        If this is true, why bother?

    • TomK_in_Boston

      They have no interest in facts, they just regurgitate the same scripts over and over. Tax cuts good when the top rate is 91% and we have a strong middle class, tax cuts just as good with Lord Romney paying 13% and 3′rd world inequality. The “job creators” always need more wealth and income to create jobs, even when they have more than at any time since 1929. Actually there’s no correlation between the cap gains tax rate and GDP growth. Strip away the smoke and it’s very simple – the agenda is the Romney types grabbing more for themselves.

      • JONBOSTON

        When the marginal rates were set at 91%  there were so many more tax loopholes, deductions, exclusions from income,etc that brought the effective tax rate down considerably to something closer to 35-40%. Moreover when income tax rates are that high , corporations in the 50′s and 60′s would provide shareholders and employees non-taxable compensation in the form of more generous benefits ,etc  (like club memberships) rather than distribute earnings as taxable dividends.  Your focus on Romney’s effective tax rate misrepresents his situation.  Realize that dividends distributed to Romney have already been taxed at the corporate rate of 35% and then are subject to his cap gains tax of 15%, thus effectively splitting corporate earnings with the FEDS. At some point , when govt. reaps more of what you earn, economic growth will begin to contract. Just today France raised the income tax on the very wealthy to 75% . If you don’t think this will have a very significant negative impact on economic growth in France , you’re deluding yourself.

         Etch-a-liar’s ( D-welfare state) class warfare campaign against the wealthy sickens me. It’s divisive , breeds resentment and envy, and totally disgusting. And it’s misguided. People who enjoy personal success are not doing so at the expense of others unless you think the economic pie never expands. And based on your comments and the many on this board and the latest polls , Etch-a liar’s campaign appears to be having some success. It removes the focus from decreased family income, 45 months of 8% unemployment, real unemployment levels closer to 15%, 1.3% GDP growth, expanding welfare rolls and increased dependency, etc.  Do you really believe that increasing an already significant tax burden on those making over $250K will (a) create jobs for those who are now unemployed (b) expand the middle class (c) create economic growth or (d) increase income tax revenues?  It may satisfy Obama’s voters who resent those more fortunate than them, but it will do nothing to make their life better. If you think so, good luck escaping your predicament.

        Finally , you can’t possibly be satisfied with the current state of things.  Do you ever wonder why Obama never runs on his record? You’d think he was the challenger if you heard his ads. Have you ever asked yourself (since the mainstream media never does) what Obama proposes to do differently in the next 4 years to make things better for everyone? I’m still waiting to hear.

        • gonkers

          How can anyone claim capital gains have already been taxed at the corporate level when so many corporations ARE NOT PAYING TAXES????

          It’s one thing to give tax breaks for a few years to those investing in risky ventures that may benefit us all. It’s quite another to just give special tax breaks to Wall Street speculators who may be damaging the economy. 

          • TomK_in_Boston

            It’s nonsense, but it’s the Official Party Line so they all have to say it.

          • gonkers

            Those on the Orwellian Right who come up with these lies and distortions surely know the truth. They have to have utter contempt for those they seek to mislead. 

            I suspect the True Believers here actually just believe those lies and distortions.

          • JONBOSTON

            According to some studies I’ve seen , maybe 30 of the Fortune 500 have paid no taxes over the period  reviewed. These tend to be telecommunications companies and energy companies who benefited from accelerated depreciation, investment and R&D tax credits, or “no profit ” pass through companies like Sub-S companies ,etc.
            Our complicated tax code and high rates encourages this type of abuse. Better we have a flat corporate tax so no need for lobbyists. Depending on the business sector, the average effective corp tax is anywhere from 17-32%. 

            Case in point for abuse–GM is Obama’s darling. Normally when a company emerges from bankruptcy , you cannot carry over pre-filing tax losses. Not so with GM. As a sop to the unions, GM can carry over its pre-petition losses and thereby shield its profits from taxes for years to come. Considering the billions given GM by taxpayers, it would have been nice if they started paying corporate taxes.

        • hennorama

          Thank you for your indirect response to my post.  I realize that your comments were not directed to me, but I feel a response is warranted.

          Clearly, the current economic situation is far from ideal.  We all agree on this.  My initial concept of making Mr. Romney’s proposals
          conditional on measurable direct benefits is an idea I find intriguing.

          However, my overarching premise is that the economy won’t change substantially or quickly, regardless of who is in the Oval Office.  My conclusion is that the recovery will continue to feel like a recession, as it will continue to exhibit weak growth and high unemployment until demand improves significantly.

          I’ve dubbed this “The BBQ Recovery” – low and slow, or Boring But Quantifiable, if you prefer.

          Just a few other comments:

          1.  You may find that readers will be less likely to immediately dismiss your comments and stop reading them if you refrain from insulting, disrespectful and disdainful references to Pres. Obama.

          2.  One can argue that both sides of the current presidential campaign have engaged in tactics that are divisive, resentful, and disgusting.  Witness Mr. Romney’s “the 47%” comments.

          3.  Your contention of “…an already significant tax burden on those making over $250K…” begs a definition of “significant.”  Here’s an article about who pays what, and fairness.  Note the chart, which shows the share of TOTAL (Fed, State & Local) taxes paid compared to the share of the total income of various income groups.  The differences are fairly small.

          http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304356604577338122267919032.html

          4.  Your comment about “…decreased family income, 45 months of 8% unemployment, real unemployment levels closer to 15%, 1.3% GDP growth, expanding welfare rolls and increased dependency, etc.” seems to imply
          that you think this a permanent rather than a temporary condition.  As I said, the economy is far from ideal, but these are unusual and not permanent conditions.  Here’s an article on the topic:

          http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3505

          Thanks again for your comments.

          • JONBOSTON

            I looked at the chart and it supports the point that we have a steeply progressive income tax burden with top 20 paying 70% of all federal income taxes. Yes everyone pays social security but you do get it back with social security benefits.

            Hard to have any respect for Obama unless you disregard Stephanie Cutter’s falsely accusing Romney of being a felon , or the Obama PAC ( headed by an Obama staffer) disgustingly accusing Romney of indirectly causing the cancer death of Joe Stopic’s wealth, or Dirty Harry’s  blatantly false lies that Romney paid no fed income taxes. Or if you disregard Obama’s blatant lies about Romney increasing taxes on the middle class (Romney called for a 20% cut for everyone, including middle class ) or Obama’s lying about Ryan’s medicare proposal (disregarding Ryan’s second Medicare plan worked out with Sen Ron Wyden (D-Oregon)). Or Obama’s blatant lying about Bain Capital that was toned down somewhat after Corey Booker and Bill Clinton came to Romney’s support.

            Last but not least , Etch-a-liar (D-Gutter) has spent the better part of the last 2 weeks lying to the American public over the Bengazi terrorist attack . Better he lie to the American people than tarnish the false narrative that “I killed Bin Laden” and the terrorist threat is no longer. For the most narcisstic of all presidents , his re-election is more important than concern for America. Sorry, but I have no respect for Obama and even less so for the morons who would vote for him. 

          • hennorama

            Thank you for your response.

            Actually, the chart indicates the following, regarding the share of TOTAL taxes paid (Fed + State + Local) compared to the share of TOTAL income:

            Lowest 20%: TOTAL Taxes: 2.1% TOTAL Income 3.4%
            Second 20%: TOTAL Taxes: 5.3% TOTAL Income 7.0%
            Middle 20%: TOTAL Taxes: 10.3% TOTAL Income 11.4%
            Fourth 20%: TOTAL Taxes: 19.0% TOTAL Income 18.7%
            Top 20%: TOTAL Taxes: 63.1% TOTAL Income 59.6%

            As I’ve repeatedly stated, discussing ONLY Federal Income Tax (FIT) distorts the overall “taxes vs. income” picture. When you focus solely on FIT, you are only looking at the single tree, rather than the entire forest.

            There is some progressivity to the overall picture, but it is not enormous. This is due to the fact that State & Local taxes tend to be regressive, which counters much of the progressivity of FIT.

            Remember too that Federal Income Tax is not the only source of Federal revenue. There are also payroll taxes, corporate taxes, excise taxes, estate & gifts taxes, etc.

            Again, a focus only on FIT leaves a distorted picture.

          • JONBOSTON

            I would guess that all or nearly all of the taxes paid by the lower 20% are either FICA, medicare and  state taxes , which I earlier noted tend to be regressive. My point is that FIT are steeply progressive.  
            Finally , any comments on the smear campaign by Obama, whose campaign has done more to lower respect for the presidency since of Nixon?

          • hennorama

            Yes, FIT are progressive, which explains why those with high income tend to discuss ONLY FIT, and omit discussing the regressive payroll taxes, sales taxes, excise taxes on fuel, state taxes, etc.

            Their goal is to lower FIT, which lowers the TOTAL tax burden of those with high income. The goal is to ELIMINATE or even reverse the overall progressivity of total taxation on those with high income.

            That is why they scream so loudly when anyone proposes that their FIT be increased, and why they are drawn like flies to Republican candidates, who have never seen a tax cut they didn’t like.

            Those with lower income, by contrast, tend to pay taxes that are the most regressive. Their income tends to be from wages subject to payroll taxes, and their expenditures tend to be for items subject to sales and excise taxes. These taxes consume a much higher percentage of their income compared to those with higher incomes.

            My view of the Presidential campaign is as follows:

            Pres. Obama’s campaign is using every tool at their disposal to identify Mr. Romney as rich, uncaring, out of touch, and only looking out for other rich, uncaring, out of touch people. Given the weak and slow economy, they of course won’t be touting that very much.

            Mr. Romney’s campaign appears to be run by the Keystone Kops, with one pratfall after another. Mr. Romney has done little to counter the Obama campaign’s narrative of Romney being rich, uncaring, out of touch, etc. and has in fact reinforced it at virtually every turn. I view Mr. Romney’s main problem as Mr. Romney trying to be someone he’s not. He’s actually a moderate Chamber of Commerce Republican, but he’s pretending to be conservative. He had to go so far right to win the primaries that he can’t get back to what he actually is.

            I’ve previously posited that Mr. Romney is the embodiment of the Peter Principle – he’s simply trying to get promoted one level above his competence.

            I do not support much of what the Super PACs and other so-called “social welfare” organizations have done and continue to do in this campaign. The pervasive influence of money continues to be one of if not the worst problems in American politics today.

          • gonkers

            Paying a bigger percentage of a smaller tax pie after a tax cut is not the same as paying more taxes. This is a deceptive game the Orwellian Right plays.

            We see that with the Bush income tax revenues which show that in constant dollars those revenues NEVER exceeded Clinton’s last year throughout all of Bush’s eight years.

            The rich aren’t being “soaked”. They, like everyone else, have enjoyed a $15 trillion free lunch these past 30 years. That’s what we spent on ourselves and refused to to pay for. Yet the Right, and to a lesser extent some Dems, try to convince us that we’re “overtaxed”. 

          • JONBOSTON

            PS–I use “Etch-a-liar” as a counter to TOM K from Boston ( whose post I was responding to) who routinely calls Romney “Etchasketch”.

          • hennorama

            Thanks for your comment. I understand your reasoning for using the term you use. That doesn’t make it right, but I understand. You know what they say about two wrongs …

            Also, while I don’t condone the “Etch-A-Sketch” characterization either, the use of that term is much more fair game, as Mr. Romney’s own spokesman used it when describing the shift from the Republican primary fights to the fall Presidential campaign:

            “Well, I think you hit a reset button for the fall campaign,” followed by the Etch-A-Sketch remark.

            Regardless, I feel we should at least TRY to treat each other with respect in here. And certainly the Office of President of the United States deserves your respect, regardless of your opinion of the person holding said office.

      • hennorama

        Thank you for your passionate response.

        My comments were not intended to question or impugn the motives of Mr. Romney or “they,” but rather were an attempt to expand the discussion of Mr. Romney’s proposals, and also to see if anyone would a) defend/explain/demonstrate the logic of Mr. Romney’s proposals; b) argue against conditional tax changes; or c) agree with my ideas.

        As you may have noticed, I sometimes throw out ideas to prompt discussion, rather than simply arguing for or against proposals, groups or individuals.

        Thank you again for your response.

    • gonkers

      Selling irresponsible tax cuts as benefiting us all through trickle down prosperity or creating “revenue booms” are the only way to implement Starve The Beast without generating real opposition from 50% of the population… the braindead True Believers who SHOULD know basic math, but have willingly sabotaged that part of their intellect.

    • gonkers

      During Bush’s eight years income tax rates were cut so irresponsibly those income
      tax revenues in constant dollars NEVER AGAIN EXCEEDED CLINTON’S LAST YEAR. I’m sure some
      readers will see 8 years of declining income tax revenues as “proof” tax
      cuts create revenue booms. But then some people will believe anything.

      Here are the numbers:

      http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/2012/09/where-oh-where-is-bushs-revenue-boom.html

      • hennorama

        Thank you for your response.

        The info in the linked article is interesting, and yet another argument against further income tax cuts, and/or that current federal income tax rates are too high.

        • OnPointComments

          You do realize that the link provided by gonkers is to a blog, and it may be his own blog, i.e., to numbers he calculated himself.  A better source is the White House website. 
          http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2012/assets/hist01z3.xls
          The White House website shows that 2001-2008 revenues exceeded 2000 revenues in 2 of 8 years in constant FY2005 dollars.

          • hennorama

            Of course I realize it is a blog. I didn’t bother to do the arithmetic, nor did I research the Federal INCOME tax figures provided. For some reason, it’s not terribly easy to find charting of inflation-adjusted figures for Federal INCOME taxes alone.

            This is the raw data source referenced:

            http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2013/assets/hist02z1.xls

            Your link was to TOTAL Federal Receipts, Outlays, Surpluses and Deficits, rather than only INCOME taxes, which is what Gonkers and the linked blog were discussing.

            An important distinction.

          • gonkers

            The problem with using numbers from the “unified budget” is it hides internal borrowing from the off-budget side of the ledger.

            Only the ON-budget numbers give us a more accurate idea of our fiscal condition which is why neither Dems nor GOPers uses them.

            For example, the TRUE Clinton surplus only amounted to about 90 billion in FY99 and FY00 before Bush recklessly pushed through round after round of irresponsible tax cuts which sabotaged debt paydown.

          • gonkers

            If we’re to look for some revenue feedback from cuts in income tax rates… then why look to other taxes… such as corporate taxes or OFF-BUDGET borrowing from Social Security to see the effects? I was quite clear that the analysis was only looking at INCOME TAX revenue.

            Otherwise Bush revenue in constant 2005 dollars, after SIX YEARS of lower revenue, finally exceeded Clinton’s last year in 06. Between 06 and 07 the total revenue above Clinton’s last year totaled a paltry 140 billion or so. (What revenues would be with Clinton’s old tax rates for the same years… they might easily be hundreds of billions higher.)

            I’m sure you’ll ignore all that LOST revenue… and claim to be impressed with those pathetic Bush numbers. But then I’ve yet to see much fiscal common sense in ANY right winger’s posts.

          • gonkers

            As documented in the 9-7 forum, if we just look at Bush’s ON-budget revenues in constant 2005 dollars, then Bush’s revenues only exceed Clinton’s last year in ONE year… and then only by a measly 70 billion. 

            Bottom line is these massive irresponsible tax cuts do one thing… DEPRESS REVENUES! That SHOULD come as no surprise. Will revenues stay down forever… depends on severely the taxes were cut. Bush’s tax cuts come pretty close.

            Why so many on the Right believe these tax cuts create revenue booms or even pay for themselves is is a testament to their gullibility.

  • OnPointComments

    Fast and Furious whistleblower and ATF Special Agent John Dodson has sent a letter to Fortune Magazine asking it to retract the June 2012 story “The Truth About Fast and Furious” by Katherine Eban.   From the letter:
     
    “As you are likely aware, the Justice Department Inspector General has now issued his exhaustive report about Operation Fast and Furious (the “IG Report”). Given its findings, it is clear that Ms. Eban’s purported finding of “the truth” was far from it, and in fact is demonstrably false in many respects. A retraction is in order to correct the record.”
     
    http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2012/09/28/fast_and_furious_to_fortune_magazine_take_back_your_smears

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       The media apologizing for covering Obama’s butt?  Never.

      Maybe he can sue them and then they’ll pay attention.

      • Thinkin5

        They never did in depth questioning and reporting on the Bush/Cheney weapons of mass destruction fantasy until many years later. Never heard the right complaining about the media then.

    • StilllHere

      Of course, On Point was only too happy to believe Eban’s story and leave it at that.

  • OnPointComments

    Ben Stein: Hillary Clinton should resign
     

    “She’s in charge of the ambassadors, she’s in charge of the foreign service. She absolutely should not have let those people go to Benghazi, which she knew was in a state of extreme unrest, without having adequate protections. That was a very serious mistake that cost several people their lives, and she’s responsible.”
     
    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0912/81330.html

    • OnPointComments

      I don’t think that Ben Stein is an oracle whose every word should be heeded, but I agree with him on this.  It’s obvious that someone in the Obama Administration made a terrible mistake, and there should be a substantial penalty for that person.

  • StilllHere

    No surprise, more lies and broken promises from this administration, the worst in the history of our great country.  I am no longer proud of my country.  

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-28/obama-cabinet-flunks-disclosure-test-with-19-in-20-ignoring-law.html
    On his first full day in office, President Barack Obama ordered federal officials to “usher in a new era of open government” and “act promptly” to make information public.
    As Obama nears the end of his term, his administration hasn’t met those goals, failing to follow the requirements of the Freedom of Information Act, according to an analysis of open-government requests filed by Bloomberg News.

    • Thinkin5

       Can’t win with logical, sound, arguments so let’s make up an alternate biography for the president. And, while we’re at it, let’s send out a whacko world view from the right wing extremists that rivals the terrorist extremists world view. The two factions should fight it out and leave the rational world out of it.

    • gonkers

      Ya we know… you were only proud of our nation when Bush sabotaged debt pay down with irresponsible tax cuts even though he PROMISED to pay down debt in the campaign and his first state of the unions.

      And you were only proud of our nation when Bush sabotaged the fiscal health of the nation hoping to Starve The Beast.

      And you were only proud of our nation when Bush’s incompetence let us get hit on 911.

      And you were only proud of our nation when Bush let Bin Ladin escape at Tora Bora then said he didn’t care where he was.

      And you were only proud of our nation when Bush used 911 as a an excuse to illegally invade Iraq… a nation that played NO roll in 911 while depriving the war in Afghanistan of resources.

      And you were only proud of our nation when Bush’s focus on some Axis Of Evil forced the two he didn’t invade into developing nuclear weapons.

      And you were only proud of our nation when Bush reckless policies destroyed the economy.

      Ya I, too, wish for the good ole days!  

  • gonkers

    Anyone else getting spam the past few days to watch that anti-Muslim crap video “Innocence Of Muslims” at YouTube? 

    Someone surely is looking to instigate more trouble.

  • DrewInGeorgia

    I am so sick of every verbal exchange being labeled an ‘attack’. I can’t possibly be the only one who has noticed that every critique, critical observation, or disagreeable question on all sides has become an ‘attack’ in our rabid media. I wish it would stop, it’s beyond ridiculous and it desensitizes us to the true nature of the word.

  • OnPointComments

    http://unskewedpolls.com/

    In the link, click on any of the polls in the left column for a discussion of the bias/over sampling of that poll.

  • Dee

    Here are the Zionist war mongers attempting to justify the 
    unjustifiable on Iran and trying to rope US officials into their schemes and falsehoods…..See the URL below.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/israeli-prime-minister-lays-out-path-to-war-with-iran/

    We need a Declaration From Israel today as Chris Hedges 
    outlined in 2007…..

    http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20070702_a_declaration_of_independence_from_israel/

    Netanyahu and his Zionist Regime and settlers are I believe 
    a soulless body of people who show little or no regard for the rule of law or international law… 

    Or indeed the sovereign and human rights of non-Jews in 
    their midst… I have seen more regard from gypsies park-
    ed along country roads towards local land owners and in-
    digenous people.  

  • Steve__T

    Thanks dysfunctional disqus

  • Dee

    Here is the Zionist Regime in action reacting towards 
    liberal Jews in Israel responding to The Goldstone UN
    Report which documented the war crimes and human 
    rights violations of the Zionist Regime (the IAF & IDF)
    during their 22 day air & ground assault on Gaza in 
    2008-2009.

    http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/israel_crackdown_puts_liberal_jews_on_the_spot_20100315

    I can’t recall the Zionist apologists in the US Senate 
    (John Mc Cain, Joe Lieberman, Lindsey Graham and 
    indeed Orin Hatch) calling for a coalition of the will-
    ing to stop the Zionist Regime horrendous assault 
    and war crimes against the defenseless and civilian 
    population of Gaza (with over 50 % percent of the 
    population under 18 years of age ) as they had done
    in Libya. 

    And to add insult to injury there was this excuse 
    for a US senator from Massachusettts and  chair 
    of The  Foreign Relations John Kerry (ar Zionist 
    apologist ) who went to Gaza to investigate the 
    use of sulfur containing bombs on this defense-
    less population with a message from the US/Zion-
    ist Regime this was what you get when you sup-
    pport and elect a terrorist group (Hamas) for  
    your government leaders…

    All the while ignoring the fact that it was Zion-
    ist terrorism in the Palestinian Territories 
    against this defenseless population by the Zion-
    ist land thieves and the Israeli Army which was 
    the root of their rebellion to save their sovereign 
    home land and rights. (see URL following…. 
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2006/02/07/why-hamas-won/

    (I should add here for the record Senator John 
    Kerry’s other mission to Gaza in 2009 was to 
    okay the restocking of the Zionist arsenal after 
    its 22 air assault on Gaza to the  tune of billions 
    of US tax payers dollars by the State Dept and 
    The Pentagon ).

    This is how evil and corrupt to the bone this US/
    Israeli relationship is and why Americans needs 
    A Declaration of independence from Israel today 
    as Chris Hedges has outline or suspend the state 
    from the UN until its lts eaders show they can be 
    a law abiding nation and show respect for their 
    neighbors rights in the region…..

    The former Attorney Genral of Israel, Michael Ben 
    Yair warned of this in his 2003 Haaretz’ Op-Ed. 
    Please note his reference to their continued law-
    lessness & cruel/violent oppression in the territories 
    http://www.seruv.org.il/english/article.asp?msgid=77&type=article

    Dee
    Dee

  • Dee

    Addendum

    Hence , in the large scheme of things is it any wonder this 
    corrupt and criminal assault on the People of Gaza by this 
    violent/lawlessness Regime was essentially retraumatizing
    an already traumatized people (with over 50% percent of 
    population under the age of 18 years ) who grew up under 
    his brutal and fascism Regime on their land daily…… 

    Here is  the psychiatrist at the Gaza Mental Hospital Dr. 
    Eyal el Sarraj speaking about this to Alice Rothchild , an American psychiatrist on her visit to Gaza in 2004 …

    “At the Gaza Community Mental Health Program, Dr. Eyad el Sarraj 
    spoke of an entire population suffering from the symptoms of post-
    traumatic stress disorder, anxiety and depression, a consequence of 
    high unemployment, extreme poverty and massive exposure to violence”

    “A recent study by the program of 10- to 19-year-olds in Gaza found
     that two-thirds have seen a friend or neighbor killed or wounded, more
     than one-third have been tear-gassed and 82 percent suffer from mod-
    erate to severe PTSD. We know that the more trauma and violence 
    occur in a child’s youth, the more risk-taking and violence happen in 
    later life.” 

    http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2005-08-19/news/0508190176_1_jewish-settlers-palestinian-life-gaza-community-mental

    So, the Zionist Regime has not only dished out this horrendous 
    violence to this fragile and defenseless population but in the pro-
    cess it has made this population and their society more violent 
    as a result.   How shocking!  ( Just as the US illegal invasion of 
    Iraq and Afghanstan and North Africa today are doing today..)

    Dee

    PS. People should take note –there was no suicide bombing in 
    Palestine until  the Israelis invaded the Palestinian territories 
    in 1967 and  began populating the territories with Jews from
     foreign land to the illegal settlements–and further expelled 
    Palestinians from their homes and land to accommodate this 
    illegal and unlawful population.. So now they must get out.
    That’s the right of this great wrong….All colonial powers had 
     to this and the carpet baggers in the territories should be 
    treated no different http://www.plands.org/videos/005.html   

    http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2005-08-19/news/0508190176_1_jewish-settlers-palestinian-life-gaza-community-mental

  • 1Brett1

    Mitt Romney’s campaign is 11 million dollars in debt (this after borrowing 20 million in August)…and you neocon fools think he’s going to fix our economy’s debt and spending practices? 

    This would be funny if it weren’t so sad…

    • harverdphd

       What’s sad is you think 11 mil means a thing to Mitt

      • Steve__T

         Trust that he won’t pay it out of his own pocket.

    • Gregg Smith

      We have trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see, Obamacare’s price has tripled, our credit rating has been lowered, the anemic 1.7% GDP has been revised down to a pitiful 1.3%, we’re printing money out the wazoo and the only plan he has going forward is a tax hike on the top rate which won’t fix squat.

      I’ll go with Romney.

      • 1Brett1

        My point being Romney can’t even keep control of his campaign, from his message, his staff, his running mate upstaging him…on and on, to his finances…We all suspect you are for anyone who is against Obama, doesn’t matter who, for obvious ideological reasons, and, potentially, for reasons you will never own up to. But hey, at least your own personal chorus section has “liked” your comment

        • Gregg Smith

          I will vote for a can of Alpo over Obama, you are right about that. But you could not be more wrong about ideology, I don’t care a wit about it. He is a horrible horrible President, that’s the problem.

          • gonkers

            General comment: Those consumed by extreme ideologies never seem them as anything other than the ONLY way to see the world.

      • gonkers

        Yup, Obama hasn’t fixed fast enough the mess created by the disastrous right wing policies YOU support.

  • TomK_in_Boston

    The rich are richer than ever and paying ultra-low tax rates, but the right’s Official Party Line is that they are “burdened” and can’t be asked to pay “even more”. I can’t imagine anyone being stupid enough to believe that, but they do. I might SAY it, if I was an oligarch myself and was so greedy I wanted even more, but I doubt there are many romney types on this forum. So it is a question of being duped and used.

    The right is as disciplined as the old Communist Party, they really stick to the Party Line regardless of the facts. You constantly hear about how wonderful low cap gains taxes are for “job creators”, but the FACT is that there is no correlation between the cap gains rate and GDP.

    http://static8.businessinsider.com/image/4f75c9ef6bb3f72265000013-454-382/capital-gains-rates-gdp.jpg

    That won’t stop them from repeating the script, however.

    The bottom line is that trickle down is camouflage for redistribution upward.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       The top three things that will help the poor and middle class are jobs, jobs and more jobs.

      It is the only thing that will solve the deficit and debt problems.

      • gonkers

        Sorry… as 2007 proved, if tax rates are too LOW, even in a “boom” period, revenues will be not be sufficient. After SIX YEARS of lower than FY00 revenues in constant dollars, Bush’s BEST revenue year was 2007 where on-budget revenues finally exceeded FY00 levels. That is pathetic.

        There’s another part of the the Laffer Curve that the Right sweeps under the carpet. If tax rates are too LOW, they won’t capture enough revenue. Bush did nothing but pass tax cut after tax cut during his 8 years. Even Reagan wasn’t that irresponsible. But then Bush WANTED to created more debt… to create a budget crisis which would then be used as a pretense to go after the New Deal and Great Society safety net programs. This is why the GOP refuses to look at revenue and pretends only spending is the problem.

    • Gregg Smith

      That’s not the party line. Don’t raise taxes on anyone in this economy. In the best case, it’s a smidgeon of revenue. This isn’t the climate for a best case scenario. Has Obama offered anything else? I mean, besides printing yet more money.

      And enough with the “Redistribution upward” thing until you can articulate how someone keeping more of what they earned is taking it from the poor. Where is money exchanged?

      • gonkers

         Gregg hopes his “not in this economy” line will make his slavishly parroting the right wing line seem less irresponsible. Of course to the far Right the solution to every problem is another tax cut. Economy’s good? Tax cut. Economy’s bad? tax cut. 

        • William

          If raising taxes in a bad economy was a good idea why did Obama/Pelosi/Reid not raise taxes when they had the chance? Obama even endorsed the fact that it is a bad idea to raise taxes in a bad economy and extended the Bush tax rates and put forth his own tax cuts with Social Security money.

          • gonkers

            I’ve had mixed feelings about the 2 year extension of the irresponsible Bush tax cuts. Leaving aside the matter if Obama’s policies have slowed recovery… I think they have, just not in the manner the GOP claims:

            1: Obama could have gotten a better deal if he didn’t give in to GOP tantrums.

            2: Obama has done NOTHING to educate the public on the nation’s finances.

            3: Obama should have pushed for ONE year extension at most. Obama wanted to use this as an election issue in 2012.

            4: If there’s a return to a saner rate of taxation, there may need to be a phase in of the higher rates over a 2-3 year period.

        • pete18

           I’m curious as to why you think that when people on the right consistently call for tax cuts it’s “slavishly parroting” but when people on the left regularly call for raising taxes on the rich and increasing government sending as a solution to every problem it’s considered “smart and new policy”?

          • gonkers

            You assume I’m a Dem who supports the Obama plan. I’m not.

            In 2001 We The People were 6 TRILLION in debt and Bush PROMISED to pay down debt. Now, with 10 trillion more in debt, the Obama plan to keep most of the irresponsible Bush tax cuts is, itself, irresponsible.

            I’m for returning to the Clinton rates with surcharges for the rich… perhaps a 50% top rate for 10-15 years to recoup revenues that never should have been lost.

             

          • pete18

            Still doesn’t doesn’t answer my question, since you are actually suggesting even higher taxes on everybody as a solution to our problems. That is still an old Pavlovic  response from the democrat playbook, doesn’t really make you any less a parrot. I never assumed you were a Democrat but I did assume you supported liberal policies, which you have confirmed in your post.

            As to the Bush tax cuts, it was not the reduction in tax rates that gave us higher  deficits during the Bush years it was higher spending. The reduction in the tax rates actually increased that government revenues that were collected from taxes. Raising rates on the rich now will only add to
            the drag on the economy expanding and raise the unemployment rate.

            I would join you if you suggested the government needs to spend less over the next four years, no matter who was in office.

          • gonkers

            Sure the government needs to spend less. There are TWO key variables in a budget… revenue and spending. That’s Budgeting 101. The question here is why does the GOP pretend there’s only one variable?

            The problem here is not just spending… but actual REVENUE numbers prove the Bush tax cuts were irresponsible. They not only sabotaged debt paydown but also were so severe real revenue growth in constant dollars has largely been  BELOW FY2000 levels now for 12 YEARS.

            There IS a revenue problem even if the GOP dishonestly claims otherwise. That SHOULD raise the obvious question why a political party has taken fiscal common sense OFF the table.

        • Gregg Smith

          Please don’t tell me what I think. I’m with Clinton and Pelosi on this one.

          • gonkers

            I have no idea what either said.

            But citing a Dem or two does NOT prove you’re not for irresponsible tax cuts.

            Supporting irresponsible tax cuts has been your consistent position here in these forums for as long as I’ve been reading your posts… and that goes back to spring of 2011. 

          • gonkers

            You like to play the game that the 2001 tax cuts were justified because the economy was “in freefall”… and now we can’t restore saner tax rates because of the weak recovery.

            But after debating this issue with you now for 18 months I know it’s a smokescreen for your general approval of ALL such irresponsible tax cuts. Which is why you REFUSE to ever say whether you favored a tax hike in 06-07 when you claimed the Bush economy was doing well.

  • Gregg Smith

    I can’t believe Obama supporters have the nerve to say a word. It really takes willful ignorance and blinded ideology. It amazes me.

    • 1Brett1

      Wow.

      • Gregg Smith

        I know, right?

    • Steve__T

       You are so willfully ignorant and blind I don’t know if you use a braille keyboard.

  • Gregg Smith

    Univision is airing an investigative report tomorrow (Sun.) @ 7PM on “Fast and Furious”. It seems the slaughter was a tad understated. It is interesting seeing the left (all of the sudden) saying it’s not the gun it’s the person pulling the trigger. I suppose the inverse is true of the right but I think the outrage is more about the reckless disregard for Mexico, the law and life. One would think that to be a bi-partisan issue. The dismissal from the left is stunning. No biggee.

    http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/video/untold-story-fast-furious-scandal-17341773

    • gonkers

      If there was wrong-doing or stupidity in the FBI or ATF, then heads should roll. Sadly, your standard for justice is dependent not on the crime or the atrocity but the political party one belongs to. You’ll rail on this issue but when it comes to Bush’s illegal invasion of a nation that posed no threat to us… where civilian deaths might reach into the hundreds of thousands… that you applaud.

      • William

         The Congress approved the war against Iraq. Obama’s illegal war against Libya was never approved by Congress. Obama’s  intervention into the civil war in Yemen cannot be justified.

        • gonkers

          The 2002 AUMF was CONDITIONAL. Try reading it. Bush willfully VIOLATED those conditions.

        • gonkers

           From the 2002 AUMF

          SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.

              (a) Authorization.–The President is authorized to use the Armed
          Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and
          appropriate in order to–
                      (1) defend the national security of the United States
                  against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and
                      (2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council
                  resolutions regarding Iraq.

          There was NO threat from Iraq and there were NO active UNSC resolutions authorizing force. Even with 1441 the UNSC left did NOT make a final decision how to deal with Saddam should he violate 1441.

      • Gregg Smith

        He didn’t even inform the Mexican Government. And please, enough with the “illegal invasion” thing. There are no grounds to base that on. the iraq war was legal in every way.

        • gonkers

          Thanks for proving my point that your partisanship interferes with your judgement.

          The Iraq war was illegal because, as PROVEN to you over and over, the AUMF was CONDITIONAL. Bush violated the two key conditions of the AUMF to work to enforce UNSC resolutions and to certify force was needed because Iraq was a real threat to the US.

          There were NO active UNSC resolutions that authorized force, and Iraq posed NO threat to the US. Bush lied.

          • Gregg Smith

            Yadda yadda.

            “Fast and Furious”

          • gonkers

            A concession by any other name is still a concession.

  • 1Brett1

    Above photograph caption should be: Natasha says: “Boris, look out, Bullvinkle has lit the fuse!”

  • JGC

    The whole Obama phony phone story strikes me as being a Republican dirty trick, sort of Breitbartian (RIP) or O’Keefian.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       The Obama phone program has exploded in Ohio to 1 million users.

      Hmmmm.

      http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/subsidized-cell-phone-program-nearly-doubles-in-oh/nRDqC/

      • gonkers

        As PROVEN before, there is NO such thing as an “Obama Phone” program. That term is from a PRIVATE website the owners of which registered in in a way to remain anonymous. For all we know it could be a site created by Republicans to create the “buzz” you are giving it.

        • Gregg Smith

          You’re funny!

          • gonkers

             Rewriting history again? In the social mobility forum just a few days back I PROVED to you with a link to the official registry of domain names that the Obama Phone site was NOT a government site but a PRIVATE site registered anonymously. To which you said… “who cares”.

            Who cares?

            Only those interested in facts. When you decide to join that club, let us know.

          • Gregg Smith

            I said who cares who started the program. You can’t say the Obama phone program doesn’t exist and simultaneously write about the website hawking them. Who cares if it’s a private website? It’s government funded dependency.

          • gonkers

            There are two separate issues.

            The first is redistribution. Large sections of the rural states might NEVER have interstate highways, electric, phone, or hi-speed internet service without federal redistribution of “wealth” simply because the market would not see any profit in serving these people. Maybe as a urban dweller I should resent subsidizing these programs. I don’t since I believe such redistribution is the rising tide that lifts all boats.

            The other issue is whether there’s waste/fraud or abuse in this program on the part of the phone companies and applicants to this program. If there is… it must be corrected and if prosecutions are warranted: sic ‘em.

          • gonkers

             So Gregg you live in North Carolina. Do you complain about government  dependency when you or people in your state get below market-priced power from the TVA?

            Didn’t think so!

    • OnPointComments

      The “Obama Phone” program is a misnomer, so let’s call it the “Government Phone” program.  The cost of the Government Phone program escalated in 2008 when it added cell phones to the land lines that it originally funded, and the cost of the program more than doubled in four years.  A simple solution is to go back to providing land lines only, and scrap the cell phones.

      • Gregg Smith

        That makes too much sense.

    • OnPointComments

      A screen shot from FreeGovernmentCellPhones.net.  The website has been changed since the controversy over free cell phones got stirred up.

  • 1Brett1

    On Romney: you’re only allowed a certain amount of flips before everyone sees you as a flop. When conservatives abandon support the way they have in the last couple of weeks, it is telling. But, the usual suspects on here will continue to be Romney apologists, crossing their fingers and wishing Republicans from the battleground states could come up with even more voter suppression strategies.    

    • Gregg Smith

      Ideology does wonders for the memory. I would say the flip-flop thing is a wash as they both are guilty but that would be giving Obama a pass. You didn’t cite anything so right off the bat let’s say Obama’s flip-flop on gay marriage and Romney on abortion cancel each other out. I’ll tell you what, for every one flip-flop you cite about Romney, I’ll give you two from Obama. Check that, too easy, I’ll give you three. Sure it’s pointless but I’m trying to help here cause your partisan petticoat is showing.

      • 1Brett1

        Haha! “Partisan petticoat;” we musicians always have such a penchant for alliteration…

        Anyway, Romney is what I would call a ‘rapid cycler’ with regard to HIS flippity flops. 

        My views on Romney have much more to do with his being a poor choice as an alternative. Hey, if a better choice were in the running, I’d shift my vote from Obama; unfortunately, Romney ain’t it! I will say he’s painted himself into a corner by aligning himself (a moderate) with the far-right part of the Republican Party; which, in the last few years has become the mainstream of the Republican Party. This political miscalculation will cost him the election.

        • Steve__T

           I’m with you on that.

      • jefe68

         At this point what your going on about is meaningless. All politicians change course or flip/flop. The bottom line here is Mitt Romney is a lousy candidate, and he’s just not connecting.
        If the the GOP had someone akin to Reagen the polls would opposite to what they are now.

        Mitt Romney just can’t connect and that 47% crack sealed the deal with a lot of folks on him being a jerk.

    • hennorama
      • Steve__T

         Nice, your since of humor was unexpected.

  • hennorama

    The Supremes reunite tomorrow.  With four Justices aged 74 or higher, the next President will likely be appointing 2 or more new Justices, yet there is virtually no mention of this in the campaign.

    With the Roberts court’s decisions splitting 5 to 4 about 1/4 of the time, even ONE appointment could be critical.

    It just strikes me as odd that an issue with such long-lasting potential influence as Supreme Court appointments, there has been little mention of it in this campaign.

  • OnPointComments

    As Good As It Gets?
    Growth of 1.7% isn’t what Team Obama promised four years ago.
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444813104578016873186217796.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_AboveLEFTTop

    • gonkers

      When the predictions for the Stimulus were made the authors made clear there were too many unknowns AND the bill had not yet been written.

      That being said Obama COULD have done more to improve the economy… but all of those moves would have met with hysterical opposition from the GOP… a WPA/CETA style work program until unemployment dropped below… say 6-7…  getting speculators out of the commodity markets where they suck the life out of economic growth…. insuring Wall Street made PRODUCTIVE investments instead of speculation… and making sure free money from the FED to the banks was lent out not just reinvested in US securities.  

      • Gregg Smith

        Not so, I predicted it would be a failure. That much was known.

        • gonkers

          You can claim anything you want.

          It was a “failure” by what standard? Along with TARP the Stimulus reversed the economic freefall Bush left Obama. If it “failed” it’s only that the Stimulus wasn’t big enough to repair all the damage those Right wing policies YOU support did to the economy. THAT is the true lesson we should be learning from recent history… but some here are determined to repeat that disaster.

          • Gregg Smith

            TARP maybe, “stimulus” no.

          • gonkers

            AGAIN, you have no standard. For instance are you claiming the GDP freefall was NOT reversed? 

          • Gregg Smith

            Not by the “stimulus”.

          • gonkers

            Just another of your empty claims.

          • Gregg Smith

            GDP is 1.3%. 

          • gonkers

             A concession by another name…

        • gonkers

          Bet you also “predicted” the irresponsible Bush tax cuts and reckless right-wing deregulation would benefit the economy. Ya, that worked out real well by 2008.. so much so you want to do it all over again.

          I suspect your criteria for judging predictive success is fatally flawed.

      • JONBOSTON

        LOL when you mention CETA–one of the biggest joke programs ever advanced by the Feds. So who decides that Wall street invests wisely–the same idiots who gave us Solyndra and all the other failed green energy federal investments.

        The stimulus failed because the money went to Dem-favored constituencies and pet-projects rather than more worthwhile investments. It never made any sense to me why stimulus money went to poorly managed states operating with large structural deficits, like Calif , Illinois, NY , etc. All it did was delay the day of reckoning. Sure if you spend a trillion dollars there will be a short term positive effect. But because the stimulus did nothing to incentivize the private sector, we are now experiencing our anemic economic growth.

        • gonkers

          Like I said… there’d be hysterical opposition to such suggestions from the Right. Yet THEIR ideas crashed the economy.

          • StilllHere

            Proof… Community Reinvestment Act, Fannie & Freddie sub-prime loans, passage of NAFTA, repeal of Glass-Stegall, …

          • gonkers

            No idea what you’re getting at. The original CRA had nothing to do with the Bush crash. If there were problems Bush had SEVEN years to correct them. Bush did push Fannie to give credit to those with poor credit histories. NAFTA and the repeal of Glass-Steagall were right wing ideas even if Clinton accepted them.

            But that has NOTHING to do with what we’re talking about.
             

    • gonkers

      Where were there any promises in the “Job Impact” report written 1-9-09? Here’s what it said:

      “It should be understood that all of the estimates presented in this memo are subject to significant
      margins of error. There is the obvious uncertainty that comes from modeling a hypothetical
      package rather than the final legislation passed by the Congress. But, there is the more fundamental
      uncertainty that comes with any estimate of the effects of a program. Our estimates of economic
      relationships and rules of thumb are derived from historical experience and so will not apply exactly
      in any given episode. Furthermore, the uncertainty is surely higher than normal now because the
      current recession is unusual both in its fundamental causes and its severity.”

      Of course if the GOP were in the least honest about a report written while the Bush economy was imploding, they’d not be able to play politics with it.

      Care to compare this report to that Reagan predicted in 1981?

      http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/2011/06/proof-reagans-tax-cuts-failed-as.html

  • gonkers

    I’m all for ending the any abuse by the phone companies or applicants for this program. The expansion of the program started under BUSH.

    • TinaWrites

      Yes!  Disqus keeps posting replies as new posts!  Something is wrong.  But, IF you do switch, PLEASE don’t make us go via Facebook or Twitter ONLY (as some NPR shows do, unfortunately, in my opinion).  I’ll never fit within Twitter, and I do NOT TRUST Facebook.  WHY is NPR tying itself to a corporation that could violate certain privacy issues at any point from now into the future?  

      I think that ALL THE NPR AND PBS STATIONS AND SHOWS SHOULD HAVE THEIR OWN POSTING SYSTEM!  I really do NOT want to interface with a For-Profit corporation when I wish to write to Non-Profit NPR and PBS, both of which I SUBSCRIBE TO!  Also, if you had your down NPR posting system, people could choose (if they wished) to have the same user name and password for all NPR, PBS shows.  Right now, I can’t easily write to some shows because … I’ve forgotten my user name again.  One NPR show asks you for your user name, and then it displays your email name (quel violation of privacy!  I’m not the only person who got tripped up by that)!  Thanks!

      • gonkers

        Just got a letter from NPR that they’re switching to Disqus. I wrote them to say they’re making a HUGE mistake.

        And I second what you said about Facebook. It’s an insidious invasion of privacy!

        • TinaWrites

          Thanks for the info and confirmation!

  • gonkers

    I’m all for ending any abuse by the phone companies AND fraudulent applicants to this program. But the expansion of this program started under BUSH.

  • Gregg Smith

    We have an event here at the farm today. There are several universities (App. State, Wake Forest, Virginia Tech to name a few) competing. They go to different farm in the region every week, the host farm supplies the horses. This is our week. It’s an IDA sanctioned event. Intercollegiate Dressage Association, I’m watching dressage today. I just thought ya’ld get a kick out of that.

    • gonkers

      This isn’t Facebook pal. Please take your personal status updates eleswhere. 

      • Gregg Smith

        I’m not your pal.

        • JGC

          I may not politically agree with you, and we usually don’t, but I like your infrequent postings about your farm, and your techie nephew; it is something that connects with folks. I appreciate it.

          • Gregg Smith

            Thanks JGC. BTW, Virginia Tech won, we coach the App team. They did well too. A good time was had by all.

          • JGC

            I have a niece (or is she a  cousin 3 times removed?) who graduated from Virginia Tech…  

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            I also am at loggerheads with you often, but, yeah, a little intercollegiate dressage update is no more “uncalled for” than blog commenters who this Saturday threw in a  “Hook ‘em horns” or “Boomer Sooner”.

          • Gregg Smith

            Thanks, we can oppose each other vehemently and not be jerks. 

    • OnPointComments

      Have a good time.  I’m sure you’ve probably already seen this clip from “The Big Bang Theory,” but it’s still funny even when viewing for the 2nd time.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbRWD-9rIk0

      • Gregg Smith

        Boone’s a great town, I lived there in the early eighties. It is liberal as hell though.

  • Outside_of_the_Box

    What bothers me is we discuss political issues like Iran based on what is said in the MSM, at speeches like the UN, etc But we don’t know what they are saying behind closed doors. What if Obama is putting up a public face that says “we’re not willing to draw a red line”, and in private has already promised Bibi they would help when the time comes? Then we the people, look like a bunch of jackasses. I just don’t trust these guys anymore. Did it matter in Iraq? Do we support drone strikes in Pakistan that kill far more civilians than intended targets? Guantanamo? Executive kill order on American civilians?

    So why should we think:
    a) They are rational, reasonable, law abiding, peace loving players?
    b) They tell the public their true intentions?

    I was against Afghanistan, or at least the approach they went with. I would have started by targeting the heart of the Al Qaeda operation in Saud.
    I was against Iraq completely.
    I’m against drone strikes in Pakistan.
    And I’m against military intervention in Iran. Remove the sanctions completely. They are hurting the people far worse than the regime. Take them at their word, but follow them very closely via covert operations, intelligence, etc; The moment there is verifiable evidence of a bomb, go in and take out the program.

    When Ahmadinejad talks about Israel, in that aggressive way, he is referring to what he calls the Zionist regime in Israel. Not the Israeli people. I really believe that. He wants to remove the Zionist element, not destroy the Israeli people. Big difference! And he would not be the one to initiate or attack preemptively. In spite of what they said, which is that IF there was verifiable evidence that ISrael/US were initiating an attack, they would not hesitate to begin their defensive strategy. That’s different from simply attacking Israel with zero provocation. There is no reason, in my opinion, to believe that Iran would be any more likely of using the bomb, than any other nation with a bomb currently. Everyone knows, with MAD, there is no winner if anyone initiates a bomb attack. It’s a tool, a deterrent, a statement. Not a pre-emptive option. The logic only works if we think he and the Iranian regime are crazy, suicidal, irrational. That is what the Israeli/US propganda machine has been pumping out for years. But I seriously do not believe this is the case. Israel just wants to maintain it’s sole nuclear status in the region.

  • Steve__T

    Disqus is discussing

  • gonkers

    Far Right talk show host Bill Cunningham… who dubs himself as “the Great American”, is at this moment spewing the “Obama Phone” myth.

    And of course the all those national opinion polls lie when they show Romney behind, and Obama is in “deep trouble” in Ohio, Wisconsin, and Penn.

    • JGC

      I agree with you on this 100%.  I am late coming into the loop, but from what I saw today on websites that covered Verizon and AT&T and the FCC and CBO, all I can conclude is this is a right-wing manufactured “crisis”, and with racial overtones to boot, on a program that goes back to the Roosevelt administration, with adjustments made through each successive admin. from Reagan through Clinton and then W. Bush. , as our country’s communications have evolved from landlines to the Internet to VoIP.   There are no free government phones. The FCC requires the companies that provide communications to kick back a portion of their revenue on a quarterly basis to fund access to public schools, libraries, Native American reservations, rural communities, nursing homes and yes, low income people that may otherwise not have access to phone and Internet services.  In fact, the greatest proportion of the monies collected go to servicing the school and library systems,etc and just a small percentage to the indigent.  The FCC does not mandate that the service companies collect a tax from their customers, but that is how most of the communications firms like Verizon and ATT chose to package it and offload it to their customers.  

      • Ray in VT

        Damned those free loading schools and libraries.  The nerve of some people.  When I was in grad school I worked with this guy who absolutely loved Michael Savage and Glenn Beck, and he seemed to regard public libraries as some sort of creeping socialism.  It was just sad.

        • Gregg Smith

          With all due respect that is another emotional reframing of the issue. Are you suggesting opposition to the giveaway means opposition to public libraries? Are you suggesting Beck or Savage (or their listeners) oppose public libraries? It’s simply not true and in the case of Beck, plum ridiculous. Why interject all of this? All Beck does is feed millions of homeless.

          To me what is sad is the idiocy of the woman in the video and her total sense of entitlement. There is nothing sad about opposing that… unless you weave a yarn about libraries, talk radio, socialism and those creepy Republicans.

          • Ray in VT

            Kindly do not tell me what I mean or what I am saying.

            I think that my anecdote is funny, sad, and relevant, as I feel that many who listen to cranks like Beck, Savage and Limbaugh, among others, are totally out to lunch.  I feel that my former co-worker’s whacky world view is somewhat typical of many on the right who seem to oppose anything done by the scary “public”, because someone else might be getting something with their dime.

            I think that this is another issue that the right is people worked up over where there is little fire behind the smoke.  This program, in one form or another, has been a part of the deal for telecommunications companies for 100 years, but somehow it’s only just now become outrageous?  Please.  Spare me the outrage.

            Also, Beck, like most of right wing talk radio, is a nut who plays upon the ignorance of his audience while picking their willing pockets.  I’ll commend his charitable works, but he’s a loon.  I wonder how he escaped from that FEMA concentration camp that he warned us all about back in 2009?

          • Gregg Smith

            I just asked the questions, the only accusation I made was that you reframed the issue in emotional terms as you often do. You clearly did that. Beck, Savage and libraries have nothing to do with squat.

            The program is outrageous now because the price went through the roof. The expansion has created monsters like the woman in the video. The dependence class is the ruin of our nation and these people vote. Beck is not what’s wrong with this country.

          • Ray in VT

            Okay then.

            Are you suggesting opposition to the giveaway means opposition to public libraries?

            No.  Although some cranks whom I have known who support the people pushing this have such a warped world view that they undoubtedly would.

            Are you suggesting Beck or Savage (or their listeners) oppose public libraries?

            Not necessarily, although I think that their general world view is that the public and its institutions are bad.

            Why interject all of this?

            Because it is what is called a real life experience, and while you may call it making something emotional, I call it an example.  In case you haven’t noticed, the world is emotional.  When someone gets screwed by a person or a policy, then that’s real, and that causes real hurt to real people, and they tend to have emotions regarding that.

            I was responding to JGC’s statement regarding how much of the money raised through the law in question goes to schools and libraries.  Do you have a problem with that element of this 100 year old measure?

            The ruin of our nation will be our home grown religious fanatics who deny science and reason, which will be the basis of our 21st century economy.  I wrote of the danger of the combination of politics and religion in my college entrance exam in 1996, and I believe in it just as strongly today.  When one has a party that will lift up lunatics like Michele Bachmann, then one is in trouble.

            Beck is a symptom of part of what is wrong with our country.  Ignorant fools getting worked up by a charlatan who makes millions selling them half truths and outright lies.  And they will applaud him for it.

          • Gregg Smith

            I applaud Beck and have never sent him a dime. Beck loves libraries. I am not aware of a single lie he has told. This is all silly. You may feel you have a beef which is fine but your rant has nothing to do with the Obamaphone.

          • Ray in VT

            So there are FEMA concentration camps and the Arab Spring was a global cabal involving Muslim fundamentalists and international communists?

            I think that it is silly.  I think that “Obama phone” is a tempest in a tea pot cooked up by people desperate to inflame people and fill airtime.

          • Gregg Smith

            You are entitled to your opinion. And I admitted Beck scares me. He has been  proven right about the Islamic caliphate.

          • Gregg Smith

            BTW, I don’t give others the power to offend me so we’re cool. I must point out I’ve listened to Rush since ’91, I’ve followed Beck since before his CNN show and have only listened on occasion to Savage (who is a bit over the top). Rush is by far the most fair, insightful and accurate of the three and a much better source of information than The MSM or NPR. Beck scares me but I can’t argue with his logic. His message of fellowship and compassion is inspiring and consistent. Many listeners of these (especially Rush) do not embrace them publicly because the caricatures are so set in public opinion. The thing is, the nastiness is so often directed at the listeners. Judgements are made about them. I refuse to be intimidated by such, you may have noticed. The notion that hate and lies can garner the audience he has is crazy. The idea that so many are mind-numbed brainwashed sycophants is really shallow and illogical. I’ll confess my confidence in humanity has been shaken but it is much higher than your very low opinion of the masses.

            My point is, dismiss me as a loon if you want but I am anything but. I am not ignorant. And don’t split hairs, I squarely fall into the category you described.

            Rush got beat out by Algore the year he was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize but I think he was more deserving than Gore and certainly more than Obama.

          • Ray in VT

            You must really have a low opinion of the news media if you think that Limbaugh and Beck are good sources of information.  I think that they’re a sick joke.  I think of them more like the old image of the raving loon on the corner with a sign than as a real source.  Now, I have heard them make reasonable arguments when not on their shows, so my general thought is that they know how to push people’s buttons and they know that ratings=money, so they crank it up to rake in the cash.

            I have a great deal of faith in people, actually, although some are easily misled and confused.  Take, for instance, those here who would say that Hitler was a liberal.  That is not a difference of opinion.  That is a delusion.  There is opinion, and there is objective fact, and I think that many people will deny fact and deride expert opinion out of ignorance or ideology.  In either case, I don’t like it.  I try to stick to facts as much as possible, and I find the reliance on conspiracy theories, like how the polls are being skewed by the liberal media to discourage GOP voters, and the victim mentality of much of the right to be disturbing and pathetic.

            Sometimes I think that you are reasonable, but sometimes you take up some stuff that I think is just crazy.  That’s fine, though.  More power to you.  I will say again, though, that if you think that Rush is a fair and accurate source of information, then I would question your judgement on the matter.  I say that respectfully, Gregg.

          • Gregg Smith

            Yes, I have a very low opinion of the news media, very very low. I honestly believe they are doing to you exactly what you accuse Rush of doing to me. I understand you think what you think. I certainly do believe what I wrote. I think I know just as much about the MSM, NPR and the rest as you do. I’ve been studying it for years. I also believe I know far more than you do about Rush. Your opinions hare the exact same as has beed stated for years from the beginning. They don’t hold up IMO. I think you have probably heard a few minutes here and there but have formed your opinions based largely what others (who have never listened) have said. It’s called “The Raspberry effect”.

            http://newsbusters.org/blogs/pj-gladnick/2012/07/17/william-raspberry-obituaries-fail-note-famous-change-mind-about-rush-li

          • Ray in VT

            Your opinion of the news media can’t be any lower than my opinion of many of your sources.  Well, it could, but it would be difficult I think.

            I’m sure that you do know more about Rush than I do, as I can’t force myself to listen to his bull.

            I also listened in the early 1990s.  They used to televise the show, and I watched it because there was nothing else on as I got ready for school.  I’ve also occasionally tuned in over the years since, and nothing has changed my opinion.

            For instance, regarding the India blackout.  Rush:  this is what liberals want, for us to live in the dark (paraphrasing).  Caller:  Rush you’re totally right.  I can’t believe that they want to do this to us.

            That’s just moronic in my opinion, and I regard it as rather representative of his schtick.

            http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2012/07/31/cautionary_tale_india_goes_dark

          • Gregg Smith

            The context is we have the President telling usRepublican’swant dirty air and autistickidsto suffer. We want to throw grandma overcliff.It was a brilliant response. Obama said he’d bankrupt the coal industry.

        • JGC

          Part of the collection of this money from the carriers is supposed to go to the Connect America Fund, with “a focus on supporting and expanding fixed broadband availability plus voice services as well as increasing efficiency and accountability” in unserved and high cost areas, to make rates and accessibility comparable to urban areas.  From what I remember of my holidays in Vermont, your state could certainly use a boost in connectivity! There is a comparable moral situation in the U.S. Postal Service, having as one of its mandates to serve all citizens, even the most remotely located persons who are not profitable for private carriers. The U.S. certainly needs to widen its mobile broad band and voice services to all areas, as both a matter of fairness and competitiveness.  I wonder if somehow the Postal Service and broadband/voice could be put together into an overall National Communications strategy…

          • Ray in VT

            We do have some connectivity issues here, and we have some public and private groups working in tandem to address the problem.  We have a lot of small tows, like Victory (population 79 if I recall correctly), as well as a few towns with no people.  Parts of the state have such low population density that they aren’t commercially profitable, like some areas weren’t prior to Rural Electrification.  Cell service is a problem here too.  So many hills and valleys that it’s tough to really blanket the place.

            Interesting suggestion on having the USPS work with broadening digital access.

      • Gregg Smith

        The Obamaphones are free to the recipients.

        • gonkers

          AGAIN, Gregg… this is NO such official program called “Obama Phone”. But I fully understand that as one who slavishly parrots right wing spin here, you’ll keep using that term. 

          • Gregg Smith

            There is no official program called “Obamacare” either. But it damn sure exist.

          • gonkers

            AGAIN, Gregg… this is NO such official program called “Obama Phone”.

            But I fully understand that as one who slavishly parrots right wing spin
            here, you’ll keep using that term. 

          • Gregg Smith

            Who used the word “official” Mr. hair splitter? 16 million people have Obamaphones… just ask them.

          • gonkers

             Being ACCURATE isn’t “hair splitting”. You only use the term because as you admitted before… you like the narrative… which means you think it serves a political purpose.

  • JGC

    The Republican War on Women continues! “GOP Staffer charged in Lindsay Lohan hotel dustup in Manhattan late Sunday evening…”

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Ted Kennedy had the first “confirmed kill” in the so called War on Women.

      • Gregg Smith

        Ouch.

        • JGC

          Ouch!

  • gonkers

    As a fiscal conservative who hates ANY waste , fraud, and abuse…  I certainly want the government to crack down on any abuses of the free cell phone program by both the companies hawking these phone or those applying for them.

    As a fiscal conservative, as opposed to one who just uses the language, I also know that budgets are made of TWO variables… spending AND revenue.

    That being said, I KNOW what passes for fiscal conservatism these days is a bastardization of the term. It’s just justification to sabotage the US Treasury of revenue hoping to “starve the beast” with massive debt.

    So I find it telling that the Right can manage so much outrage about a small program like the free cell phone program yet it sweeps under the rug the biggest waste of money in the budget: interest on the debt.

    According to the critics, this cell phone program has gone from about 800 million a year to perhaps 1200-1500 million. Sure, 500-800 million a year is NOT chump change.

    But the interest on the national debt for FY11 was $454 BILLION.

    http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/ir/ir_expense.htm

    About 2.9 TRILLION was pissed away on interest just in the Bush years.

    Yet we never here a peep about this any more than the neocon dementia that drives us to piss away more and more on the military each year.

    I’m not going to excuse the Dems in this area. Neither party in our braindead political system wants to be honest about fiscal matters. It’s shameful.

  • gonkers

    A favorite ploy of the far Right… used often by the likes of Beck and Limbaugh… is to put some nutty partisan spin on a story to the point it has little connection with reality… then accuse the main stream media of covering up that story. We see this in their efforts to discredit opinion polls that show Romney’s campaign falling behind.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       What I notice is media outlets like CNN playing up every poll that has Obama up big and then ignore any poll that shows the race tight. Then they imply that the race is over or almost over.  Then they spend time finding some critic — from the right — of the Romney campaign or of Romney himself.

      It is a clear attempt to paint Romney as a loser.

      Further, it is coordinated after the media generated negative story of a Romney tweet and then the media obsession on Romney’s comments from a private fundraiser from back in May.

      Let’s see how CNN covers the race tightening over the next few days.  There are two new polls today showing the race tightening and Gallup has Obama’s approval down 4 points in the last week to 46%.  Will you hear that on CNN?

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Jul 30, 2014
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