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Obama’s Big Speech

As the President steps up to make his case for a second term, we’re in the hall asking: What does the country need to hear?

Delegates wave the signs during the Democratic National Convention in Charlotte, N.C., on Tuesday, Sept. 4, 2012. (AP)

Delegates wave the signs during the Democratic National Convention in Charlotte, N.C., on Tuesday, Sept. 4, 2012. (AP)

And tonight, it is President Barack Obama’s turn to stand and deliver.  We have heard from Bill Clinton and Sandra Fluke.  From Michelle Obama and Julian Castro.  From Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan and Chris Christie.  But it is President Obama who’s been man on the watch in a very tough time.

When he spoke to this convention crowd four years ago, the economy had not crashed.  Tonight, it is far from full recovery.  Bill Clinton says no president could turn it around in four years.  What will, what should Obama say?

This hour, On Point: we’re in Charlotte as the president prepares to make his case.

-Tom Ashbrook

Guests

James Fallows, national correspondent for The Atlantic.

Major Garrett, White House correspondent for National Journal.

From Tom’s Reading List

Washington Post “Bill Clinton is typically described as the empathetic, feel-your-pain guy. But his greatest political skill may be as a formulator of arguments — the explainer in chief.”

Boston Globe “Obama’s speech at the Democratic National Convention on Thursday will be about promise — the kind he’ll say he has kept, and the kind of feeling he wants to stir once more. He will take people back to the start of his presidency to make a case why their lives are better, but his bigger imperative is to sell himself as better for middle-class America than Republican Mitt Romney.”

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  • VerecundMattoid24
    • ulTRAX2

      Dear Mods… the above is SPAM!!!  It’s a “coded” URL that takes readers to Amazon. Please delete the post!  

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    I’m not sure I’ll awaken from Clinton’s speech in time for Obama.

    • DrewInGeorgia

      Why bother trying to wake up now? You’ve obviously been asleep for the past thirty plus years.

  • Ed75

    The Methodist minister who spoke quoted the Bible ‘What you do to the least of my brothers, you do for me’, and got lots of applause.

    I’d like President Obama to square this with his 100% support and expansion of abortion. And why he is so pro-abortion.

    • J__o__h__n

      That wasn’t a minister.  It was pro-choice Elizabeth Warren, the next senator from Massachusetts. 

    • Acnestes

      To be in favor of allowing a woman the dignity of control over her own body is not to be “pro abortion”.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      As only a man could write it. (And you didn’t even need to give yourself the handle “Ed” for us to figure that out.)

      PS Your use of “100%” shows that some people shouldn’t use the numberpad on their keyboard.

  • StilllHere

    What we don’t need to hear is that we need to be patient?
    Obama’s had enough time, and even the sheep will admit that the progress has been slow, at best.
    Time to let Obama go.

    • ulTRAX2

      And let me guess… I bet you think the Reagan years were a fantastic success even though 6 months AFTER he took office the economy sunk into the deepest recession since the 30′s. Peak unemployment was higher than under Obama… and unemployment was over 7% for FIVE YEARS. And Reagan didn’t even have collapsed banking, housing, or automotive sectors to deal with… nor two shooting wars. Your REAL problem is you don’t think Obama is cleaning up the disaster YOUR policies created fast enough.  

      • modavations

        The Best 

    • Shag_Wevera

      Even Stalin and Mao got 5 year plans…

      • ulTRAX2

        Hey… so did Reagan. It took him FIVE years to get unemployment below 7%.

        • modavations

          Reagan created 23 million jobs.Pres.Obama has produced a Net 400,000

  • ulTRAX2

    Yes, despite what the GOP says, thunderstorms ARE forecast for Charlotte NC tonight…  from the CURRENT weather underground forecast… it might change during the day.

    Thursday
    Mostly cloudy with thunderstorms and rain showers. High of 88F. Winds from the SW at 5 to 10 mph. Chance of rain 40%.Thursday NightPartly cloudy with thunderstorms. Low of 70F. Winds less than 5 mph. Chance of rain 30%.

    • Gregg Smith

      30%? Well, I guess they needed an excuse because they don’t want the empty chair to speak to empty seats.

      • anamaria23

        Actually 65,000 tickets were sold and another 15,000 were waiting for tickets.  this,  according to news report on NPR yesterday.

        • ulTRAX2

          Fanatical political partisans have no principles only party. They live in a world of selective perception. They instinctively feel compelled to warp reality in ways that undermines, damns, or deprives credit to other side… while wearing rose colored glasses to filter out the failures, while over-exaggerating the alleged successes of their side. And this is what we see here in the posts of True Believers on the Right who show NO second thoughts or remorse, nor are they intellectually capable of taking responsibility when their precious ideas FAILED and actually destroyed the economy. That they sweep under the carpet… and they want to do it all over again… only this time on steroids.

      • ulTRAX2

        Perhaps you’d have a point if NO thunderstorms were in the forecast.

        But thanks again for proving that the ONLY opinions you post here 24/7 are either slavishly partisan, or downright Orwellian. For example, perhaps you’d like to explain to the class why you maintain LOWER Bush revenues after his tax cuts = a revenue boom. ROTF

        • modavations

          Bull twangeroo

      • J__o__h__n

        Remember the empty stadium for Romney during the primaries.  That was pathetic. 

      • ulTRAX2

        So Gregggg… do you have ANY proof there were NO thunderstorms in the forecast for tonight at the time the decision was made to cancel the outdoor event?

        Didn’t think so.

        • Gregg Smith

          Huh?

          • ulTRAX2

            You know damn well what I mean.

            Your predictable regurgitation of partisan spin Obama is using the weather as a pretense to avoid the possible embarrassment of unfilled stadium ONLY makes sense if NO storms were forecast. Do you have any credible evidence 1: no storms were forecast when the decision was made or 2: the seats would not be filled?

            If I were running such a show I’d worry even about a 5% chance of thunderstorms turning Obama’s big day into a mess. 

          • Mouse_2012

            Fox news talking point, that greg repeats on a daily basis.

          • ulTRAX2

            In the 1.5-2 years or so that I’ve been reading Gregg’s posts, I’ve yet to see an original thought or much intelectual honesty. It’s all right wing political spin. From Rush’s mouth through his ears to this board.

          • Gregg Smith

            Alrighty then.

          • modavations

            You are blinded by partisanship.I’m the smartest guy in the world and he’s taught me

          • Gregg Smith

            The convention viewership numbers are down from 2004 by 36% @ABC, 24% @ NBC and 45% @ CBS.

          • TinaWrites

            Does anyone have any theories about the NFL games starting last night?  Maybe they are NOT backed by Republicans — I don’t know.  Does anyone have any information? Thanks in advance, in case it takes me a while to get back to any answers.  

  • ulTRAX2

    I think Obama needs to eat some crow… for a Stimulus that was too small, for not moving faster to rid the commodity market of parasitic speculators who are sucking the life out of the economy, but especially for not breaking up the mega-banks and prosecuting the sociopathic predators on Wall Street whose greed actually destroyed our economy… and while he’s at it he can explain why he refused to seek war crimes trials for some members of the last administration.

    • Shag_Wevera

      I think he should puff out his chest and DARE independents to vote for Mitt Romney.

  • Shag_Wevera

    I can’t imagine how conservatives must LOATHE Bill Clinton.  He is the pre-eminent American statesman of the last 50 years or so.  He is also by far the most skilled politician and orator of his generation.  He moves the electorate, whether you like it or not.  Detractors will try to raise the issue of his personal foybles, but he is the Mac-Daddy of American politics.  I heard a conservative talking head on Faux News say that Clinton may have just won the election for Obama.  High praise indeed!

    • William

       WaPo did a fact check on his speech and punched a great deal of holes in what he said.

      • Shag_Wevera

        So?  Romney, Ryan, Bush, Gore, Reagan and others don’t exagerate or even lie?  I stand firmly by my statement.  William Jefferson Clinton is a political Super-Stud.

        • Gregg Smith

          The political super stud is also a proven finger-wagging liar and a serial abuser of women.

          • ulTRAX2

            Gregg has contempt for sexual infidelities yet he embraces a president that committed war crimes in illegally attacking a nation that posed no threat to us… thus proving my point below that political partisans have no principles, only Party.

          • William

             Obama is the guy that attacked a nation, Libya, that was no threat to us. How can you defend that? Bush II got Congressional approval so blame the Congress.

          • ulTRAX2

            We’re drifting further from the topic of this forum. But for the record Congress placed CONDITIONS on the Authorization To Use Force. Bush violated those conditions. He did not work with the UN, but undermined the work of the WMD inspectors, and he lied to Congress when he certified the invasion was necessary because Iraq posed a threat to the US.

          • William

             Bush does not answer to the UN but got Congressional approval. Obama answered to the UN but did not answer to the Congress. Which is the greater threat to the our country?

          • ulTRAX2

            Don’t confuse me with some Obama supporter. And it’s clear you know NOTHING about the conditions Congress placed on Bush.

          • Mouse_2012

            Greg embraced Newt,

          • Gregg Smith

            I never elevated him from sleazeball to scumbag. He was not a serial abuser, was never sued for sexual harassment or accused of rape. He never wagged his finger and lied to the American people. He had a duty as Speaker not to let Clinton continue his destructive, belligerent, selfish behavior.

          • ulTRAX2

            Quite the turnaround from your previous declarations that Newt was the Messiah of the 90s from whom all good things flowed… including welfare reform and the Clinton Surplus.

          • Gregg Smith

            My position has always been the same and has never been as you describe. Newt certainly was a major force to Clinton’s success.

          • ulTRAX2

            Hardly. Clinton ran on welfare reform back in 1992… and he didn’t need Newt’s spending cuts to get to a Surplus. If Newt had his way there never would have been a Surplus.

          • Gregg Smith

            “if”

          • Mouse_2012

            Like Newt?

            Good thing you don’t support either

        • William

           You find your “Super-Stud” racist comments about Obama “Stud like” or he is a racist coward?

        • Mouse_2012

          Notice William relying on the same “Fact Checkers” that the Republican party eariler debased as untrustworthly

    • Gregg Smith

      He didn’t say much about the crash in March of 2000 that delivered a recession to GWB. He’s taken blame in the past but I guess last night wasn’t the place.

      • ulTRAX2

        We’ve been through this over and over and facts don’t seem to matter to you. There might have been a slowdown, but the recession didn’t start until MARCH 2001

        http://www.nber.org/cycles

        FY2000 was the best revenue year for Clinton and the unemployment rate was 3.9% for the last four months of 2000.

        source: BLS Series Id: LNS14000000Seasonally AdjustedSeries title: (Seas) Unemployment Rate

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           Clinton lowered cap gain rates.

          • Gregg Smith

            … and the revenue flowed.

          • ulTRAX2

            True… BUT NOT BECAUSE OF THE 1997 TAX CUT…. but DESPITE OF IT… see above… then please retract.

          • Gregg Smith

            It was just 4 words. Which one was wrong?

          • ulTRAX2

            More games? What’s wrong is your underlying assumption of causation… stated openly in your past posts, that this 1997 tax cut “unleashed” the economy and brought in so much revenue it was responsible for the Clinton Surplus. The CBO study shows the tax cut provisions would COST about 370 BILLION IN REVENUE over 10 years. You do know how to read a balance sheet, right?
             

          • ulTRAX2

            And it cost revenue. So what’s your point? It’s unfortunate that the capital gains rate didn’t remain the same when the internet Tech Bubble was inflating. We might have gotten to a true on-budget budget surplus in FY98 instead of FY99.  

          • Gregg Smith

            Orwellian. 

          • ulTRAX2

             What’s Orwellian is your Heritage or Cato claim this tax cut “unleashed” the economy and was responsible for the Clinton Surplus.

            From a more reputable source than Heritage or Cato: AN CBO’s ECONOMIC ANALYSIS OF THE TAXPAYER RELIEF ACT OF 1997, April 2000
             

            The two reconciliation acts that President Clinton signed into law on August 5,
            1997_the Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997 (TRA-97) and its companion, the Balanced
            Budget Act of 1997_contained the first major cut in federal taxes since the early
            1980s. When those laws were enacted, the Congressional Budget Office projected
            that their tax provisions would reduce federal revenues by about $240 billion over
            10 years (compared with what revenues would have been between 1997 and 2007
            under previous law). That projection was based on estimates provided by the
            Congress’s Joint Committee on Taxation….
             

            The $240 billion tax cut projected to result over 10 years from TRA-97 comes from
            $370 billion in tax reductions partly offset by $130 billion in tax increases.
             
             
             

            The tax reductions in TRA-97 target particular types of taxpayers and
            economic activity, chief among them families with children. The act’s tax credit for
            children provides the largest amount of tax relief: about $73 billion through 2002
            and $155 billion over 10 years, or nearly 42 percent of the act’s estimated gross
            reduction in tax revenues (see Table 1). That credit will also increase outlays for the
            earned income tax credit (EITC) by making a larger portion of the EITC refundable.
            (The act does not increase the size of the EITC, just makes more of it refundable.)
             
             
            Most of the rest of the act’s gross tax reduction results from new tax
            incentives for higher education; reduced taxes on estates, gifts, and capital gains
            realizations;
            expanded opportunities for saving through individual retirement
            accounts (IRAs); and relaxed rules for businesses subject to the alternative minimum
            tax.
             
             

             

          • Gregg Smith

            You don’t have to look at a 1997 CBO projection (and the 2000 review of it) to see what happened.

          • ulTRAX2

            Yes we do… if we’re trying to separate the revenue effects of the 1993 Clinton tax hikes from the revenue effects of 1997 tax cut. But then you’re not interested in trying to get to the truth. You NEED to believe all tax cuts bring in more revenue than they cost.

        • Gregg Smith

          The tech bubble burst (crash) on March 10, 2000. As I said. Clinton has accepted responsibility:

          http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/chatterbox/2009/05/bill_clintons_classy_moment.html

          As I said.

          • ulTRAX2

            We all know there was a tech bubble crash. That’s NOT the point. Your claim Clinton “delivered a recession to GWB” is in question. But I suppose that’s an improvement over your former Orwellian rewrite of history that the economy was in “freefall” at the end of 2000.

          • Gregg Smith

            Clinton delivered Bush an economy in freefall but he had a little money in the bank.

          • ulTRAX2

            Back to blatant lies? I can only expect better from someone who has respect for reality.

          • Gregg Smith

            As many times as I’ve posted the Slate article you have yet to face the truth of it.

          • ulTRAX2

            How many times do I have to post the NBER, GDP and BLS stats to prove the economy was NOT in “freefall” when Bush2 took over? Actually it doesn’t matter since you’ve never shown much respect for hard facts.  

          • Gregg Smith

            clintontookblame for the freefall.

          • ulTRAX2

            What the hell are you even talking about? 2001 or 2008?

    • TinaWrites

      But, sadly, the Faux News Fans were probably watching football last night!

  • Markus6

    I’m not an Obama supporter. He was given a bad hand to play and played it like someone in way over his head. Given that, what I need to hear to vote for him (assuming he cared to get my vote).

    We’re out of Afghanistan in a year and cutting the military budget by 30% over X years.
    I’ll push for replacing Obamacare with a single payer system.
    I will shrink government spending by X% over the next 4 years. (I don’t know what the percentage should be but should be big).
    I will increase funding to protect our borders by X% and order the justice and other departments to deport all illegal aliens who break our laws after they’ve done their time.
    I will increase taxes on the top 2% and require the 50% that don’t pay fed taxes to do so.
    I’ll order that all citizens be treated the same by the federal government, whether they’re in a union or not.

    And most of all. I will stop blaming others for my mistakes.

    I can dream.

  • David_in_Franklin_MA

    I called yesterday but was not put through, but I have to speak out. I said yesterday that this election was going to be a real test of The Press, because of the need to for The Press to have the courage to boldly confront the blatant lies that are being told by the Republicans. Unfortunately from what I am seeing so far, THE PRESS TODAY ARE WIMPS!! (and this includes NPR), and the Fourth Estate may fail us in this election. The On Point screener told me that he was not putting me through because there “has already been a lot of discussion” on the lies, so the issue I was bringing up was not different. But, there is a real ethical and tangible difference between interpreting disputable data or events in a way that is politically favorable to you, which both sides do too much, and the complete misrepresentation of objectively true facts for political gain, with the hope that people will not be paying close enough attention to catch you in the lie, which seems to be mainly the province of the Republicans and the Romney election campaign. The former can be a topic of the discussion and debate by The Press, but the latter is a lie that requires The Press, if they are doing the duty of the Fourth Estate, to actively shame the liar until they stop, because such political lies are a harm to society. So, it is NOT ENOUGH for The Press to “discuss” these blatant lies and whether they are “resonating” with the voters. Listen to the interview Audie Cornish (sp?) did with Elizabeth Warren on Sept. 4 or 5, before her speech to the convention. Audie basically blamed Elizabeth because people, including the business community, were believing the LIES spread by the Republicans about President Obama’s “You didn’t build that” comment which . Anyone being HONEST knows he meant that businesses do not build the roads and infrastructure that lead to their businesses. DO THEY? How can you blame Elizabeth for people believing the DEMONSTRABLE LIES of others? Stop being wimps and BLAME THE LIARS!!!! And, do it to their faces. Liars do not stop until they are shamed out of doing so.

    • Gregg Smith

      As no lies are cited.

      • David_in_Franklin_MA

        You are being disingenuous or you are not paying attention, and I really don’t have time to waste with you. But, I will say I am sure since you are on this site, that you know when President Obama said that “You didn’t build that”, he was NOT saying business owners do not build their businesses, but was saying that business owners do not build the roads and bridges leading to those businesses, nor do they educate the children or build and maintain the schools that do so. The Republicans took this DEMONSTRABLY TRUE statement and paid millions of dollars to spread the word that “President Obama thinks business owners don’t build businesses.” There are several more, but as I said, I don’t have any more time for you.

        • Gregg Smith

          You don’t have time for the truth.

          • David_in_Franklin_MA

            No, I don’t believe in wasting my time with those who can’t handle the truth.

        • TomK_in_Boston

          You got Gregg right.

          Yes, the press letting the Lies slide is a huge problem. They stood up a little bit on Ryan’s Lie-a-thon and maybe we can hope for more, but they are deeply stuck in false equivalence.

          Clinton went over the Lies very nicely and in clear, simple terms. I love it that someone finally said what I always say: how can you take anyone seriously who screams about the deficit and then proposes tax cuts?! Give me a freaking break.

          The “you didn’t build that” Lie is really disgusting as any 10 yr old English speaker understood the President. 

          Anyway, the Clinton speech is a lot of what the USA needs to hear from Obama. The response to the GoP economic crash should not be more class warfare!

          • William

             WaPo fact checked Clinton’s speech last night and pretty much tore it apart.

          • Mouse_2012

            According to Republicans Wapo “Fact Checkers” can’t be trusted. Or did the Repbulicans change their minds?

          • Gregg Smith

            With all due respect TomK, you just don’t get it. When one says somebody lied then at the very least the accuser should cite the lie in quotes.

            Here is what David attributed to unnamed Republicans and put in quotes: ”President Obama thinks business owners don’t build businesses.”

            Who said that? Google it with the quotes and you get no results. David is quoting a boogie man. He has cited no lie yet feels so confident in the fed talking point he chooses to get contentious. 

            Now to the point, watch it:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKjPI6no5ng

            First, on the merits he did actually say it: “If you’ve got a business… that… you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.”

            So what ya’ll are doing is first making up the premise which is Republicans are taking Obama out of context when they are not. People get what he said. Then you say what Obama meant ignoring what he said. 

            What appalled us is the outright attack on achievement. He belittles it in a way that we have not seen a President do. He scoffs at the notion smarts or hard work are the major factor. It inspires no one.

          • TomK_in_Boston

            Please. He had gone on and on about infrastructure before, then said “if you have a small biz, you didn’t build that”. Any English speaker knows the That was the infrastructure. It’s obvious from the context. The mishearing is entirely ideological, and disgusting.

          • Gregg Smith

            Who cares, that’s not the point. Was he mocking achievement or not? He said what he said, I didn’t need the word “if” to make my point.

          • TomK_in_Boston

            No, he was not mocking anything. What a silly idea. He was stating the obvious truth that individual effort is more likely to succeed with a strong infrastructure, educational system, etc. Why do we have to argue about the obvious?

          • Gregg Smith

            Individual effort is more likely to succeed with a strong infrastructure. Who disagrees with that? Watch the video, he was mocking achievement. I don’t see how you can deny it.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           Are you accusing Mr. Obama of not understanding the English language and not being grammatically incorrect?

          He would have said “you did not build those” if he was referring to ‘roads and bridges’.

          It was one of those off teleprompter moments just like with Joe the Plumber.

          • David_in_Franklin_MA

            Have you seen the entire speech, in context? I am accusing you and the Republican machine of willfully mischaracterizing a straightforward truth that President Obama was stating to suit your political ends. It is obvious, that is, obvious to anyone who is not engaged in trying to defeat President Obama at any cost, what the president meant: That business owners do not build the communities in which they reside and so owe something to those communities. But, I am probably using too many big words for you, because you seem to have problems with complete paragraphs and can only handle language a single sentence at a time, so I’ll stop.

          • Gregg Smith

            “I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.”

            How is that not belittling achievement? No one cares about what he meant by infrastructure.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

             I watched the entire speech.
            Personal attacks are no way to win an argument.

            Obama espoused the classic faculty lounge mindset against business success in that talk.  Throw in a little ‘it takes a village’ nonsense.

            Obama’s policies stand in the way of economic growth in our country.  Yes, I want to see him defeated.

            Further, he has been a horrible leader.  He effectively stopped governing after the mid-terms.  Also, he did a poor job even when he had a Democrat congress.  He ceded too much power to Nancy Pelosi.

            4 years with no budget while running up $5.4T in new debt is reason enough for firing Obama.

          • David_in_Franklin_MA

            In terms of “personal attacks”, what was your nonsense about ’are you accusing President Obama of not understanding English’ and he would have said ‘you did not build those’ nonsense? Don’t insult my intelligence, and I won’t insult yours. You know what President Obama meant, and what he was saying is the truth. You and the Republicans just want to pretend that you are all self-made, rugged individualist cowboys, who owe nothing to no one. All I can say is, you are fooling yourselves or trying to fool us, and that’s no way to run a country.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

             Apparently did a mea culpa yesterday to a local news station admitting he botched the ‘syntax’ of the english language.

            You are the one playing dumb.  Obama was doing two things:
            1) Trying to diminish the value of his opponents business success
            2) Trying to raise the value of government far beyond its true value.

            No one is disputing the value of infrastructure.  However, the left ignores the downside of big government.  Over regulation impedes economic growth and job creation.

          • Gregg Smith

            Well said. I don’t know why it’s so hard to understand. 

          • DrewInGeorgia

            “Have you seen the entire speech, in context?”

            You’re asking Worried to look at something in context? You must be new round’ these parts. Please stick around a bit, I enjoyed reading your posts.

          • Gregg Smith

            All the news outlets and radical right wing radio I frequent played the entire context and/or provided the transcript.

          • jimino

            Using your metric, Romney doesn’t even know he’s the presidential nominee and Ryan the vice presidential one.  Romney introduced him as the next president when announcing Ryan’s selection.

            I can’t believe anyone could support someone so clueless about the election of the head of our country.

    • Mark_in_JP

      I couldn’t agree more.  The press has to step up and check the facts in order to shine a light on which political claims are based on facts and which talking points are a blatant distortion of the truth.  It is fine to have philosophical disagreements about what form of government is best for the union; but it is a disservice to the American electorate to focus on which distortions resonate with the public instead of holding the messengers accountable for their distortions by forcing them to provide the factual evidence or retract their false claims.   President Clinton was able to do this around the claims that “Obamacare” robs $716 Million from Medicare.  If the facts President Clinton presented are sound, then Romney and Ryan cannot be given a pass when those claims are broadcast during news airtime.   Let’s distinguish the public trust of our news broadcasters must uphold with the “free speech” political interest groups can get away with in their PAC funded advertising.   News shows have the responsibility to not only report on what is being said but to go further by questioning the claims that distort the truth or cannot be backed up with facts.    The dominant trend seems to outsource the fact checking to the political pundits (most of whom are paid party advisors or spokespersons) to provide their partisan spin on the speech.   Rather than endeavoring to verify the truth and expose the distortions, by giving equal time to pundits from both parties, the truth is further distorted under a layer of preprogrammed rhetoric.   This lazy approach of outsourcing the analysis to partisan pundits is a shameful abuse of the public trust for truth in reporting.

      • WorriedfortheCountry

         Clinton’s Medicare claims don’t stand up to scrutiny.

        He ignores the Medicare actuary report which warns of cuts in services.

        He also falsely claims that these cuts extend the life of the trust fund because those ‘savings’ are used to pay for Obamacare.  They money can’t be used twice.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Are you referring to the faux fact checkers in the media that lied about Paul Ryan’s speech.

      What was amazing is the pulitzer prize winning politifact gave Paul Ryan a false for simply quoting Obama.  How can that be when he was accurately quoting Obama?

        Then if you read the details of the so called ‘false’ they claim the GM plant closed in December of 2008.  Well, it turns out that they stopped making only SUVs in 2008 but continued to make light trucks until June of 2009.  Further, GMs status on the plant is ‘idle’ and says they could open it in the future.

      However, that isn’t even the point.  The fact checkers had a huge overreach.  The fact checkers had a huge FAIL.

      Also, the original points brought up by politifact and the WaPO fact checkers came from several liberal blog sites that were released immediately after the Paul Ryan speech.  It looked like a coordinated effort from either Axelrod or Media Matters.

    • William

       If was not so hot I’m sure you could go into some details.

    • hennorama

      OK, perhaps we can agree that the truth is being distorted by both presidential campaigns to try to gain political advantage.  I think this is beyond dispute, regardless of whether one calls it lying, quoting out of context, misuse of statistics, cherry picking of data, whatever.  Both sides are doing it.

      This is nothing new, but it has become more obvious and is more easily challenged due to the searchability of digital media.  This is a good thing for those who pay attention.

      The media has pretty widely been on top of this, which is also a good thing.

      While it is fun to wish for campaigns that discuss larger issues than “you lied when you said such-and-such, you bastard!” the reality is that this stuff will continue, because it works on some people.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Notice how the Dems continued their faux war on women last night.

    First they have a video tribute to Teddy Kennedy who by all accounts has the first ‘confirmed kill’ by a sitting congressman in the war on women.

    Then they bring out the ‘big dog’ Bill Clinton.  Clinton is a serial groper, accused rapist and workplace harasser yet swooned over by the Democrat hypocrites.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Almost every Democrat mentioned under Obama they’ve created 4.5M jobs.

    CNN, had a report, using ‘arithmetic’, that this is a patently false claim.  It was hilarious.  They were almost apologetic that they had to call out the false claims of the Democrats.

    What CNN did not report is that the job picture is much worse IF you factor in the massive drop in workforce participation.  Also, they didn’t point out that 60% of the 4.5M jobs are significantly lower paying than the jobs they replaced.

    I wonder if Mr. Obama or Biden will mention the 4.5M number tonight.  I guess that’s all they have.
     

    • Gregg Smith

      No matter how they torture the English language, there are fewer people working today than when Obama was sworn in.

      • ulTRAX2

        More of your Orwellian “facts”?

        The BLS says otherwise… at least up to the latest July 2012 numbers. Gee… so who do I believe?

        BTW, the president inheriting a REAL economic freefall wasn’t Bush2… it was Obama. Ever plan on taking responsibility for the failure of YOUR ideas?

        Didn’t think so.

        • OnPointComments

          I’m looking at a BLS chart and data at http://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet that shows the labor force participation rate has declined from 65.7% in January 2009 to 63.7% in July 2012.  As the WSJ reported on August 3rd, “The lower the number, the more people who have dropped out of the labor force.”  If the rate was at 65.7% now, the unemployment rate would be more than 3 percentage points higher.

    • Mike_Card

      Explain how Willard “creates” 12 million jobs and reduces the national debt by 5 Trillion.

      • WorriedfortheCountry

         mittromney dot com

        • Mike_Card

          How could I ever have doubted?  I’ll  be casting my ballot for him, for sure.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    I’m sick of this politician idolatry.

    Clint said it best:   “We own this country.  Politicians work for us.”

    Now that should be bipartisan.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    How do the Dems get away with wearing campaign buttons:
    “Vote Black”

    Where is the media on this kind of racism?

    • Gregg Smith

      Racism from the left is tolerated.

      • http://twitter.com/Ziljan_Vega Logan

        Are you two from another planet?   Are you honestly trying to paint the left as racist against white people?  Do you realize how nutty that sounds?

        Try saying it aloud in a room full of democrats.  But remember to take off the tinfoil hat first so they take you seriously.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           Are you denying that the campaign button isn’t an example of racism?  Promoting voting based on skin color is the purest form of racism.

          It has no place in our country and needs to be called out not matter which side promotes it.

          • http://twitter.com/Ziljan_Vega Logan

            It’s not a “campaign button,” it’s a button put out by fringe groups of voters.  The DNC is almost entirely white americans, and has been for most of America’s history.  The idea that they would be racist against white people is patently rediculous. 

            I’ll agree that these kinds of fringe-party buttons have as much place in politics as the Mainstream attacks by Republican Presidential Candidates on Obama’s nationality.

        • Gregg Smith

          No, I’m saying the Democrats are racist against all people. They assume if you are born poor and black then you are doomed forever to be poor. Standards must be lowered to allow blacks to have a chance. Harry Reid was impressed by Obama’s light-skinned non-negro dialect. Biden was surprised he was clean and articulate. Clinton said he should be serving him coffee. Democrats said Newt was being racist by referencing food stamps but more whites get them than blacks. It’s Democrats that equate blacks with food stamps and welfare. Democrats are obsessed with the color of skin. The pins scream “Forget content of character, vote for the color of skin”.  

          • http://twitter.com/Ziljan_Vega Logan

            The republican party is ~90% white.  Yet, the country is only 72% white. 
            But go ahead, try to spin the RNC as the party of colorblindness.  You are not fooling anyone though, except maybe yourself.

          • Gregg Smith

            How about we stop requiring any government document (including the census) to ask for your race? What possible reason is there for it if ones color of skin does not matter? There is none. Would Democrats oppose this? I wouldn’t.

          • http://twitter.com/Ziljan_Vega Logan

            How about we take out eye color and and weight and height descriptions off of drivers licenses too?  It’s too easy to tell people’s race by their names, so we should just throw those out the window.  Who needs a name anyway? it’s just more historical baggage.  We’ll just give people numbers, or refer to them by the last four digits of their social security numbers.   Then we’d live in a truly blind society. 

            But damnit we’d still have eyes…  We’d have to squint every time we talked to anyone or turn out the lights.  Or we could just poke those out too…  and get lobotomys.  Then we’d all be good color blind republicans free from the chains of history.

          • Gregg Smith

            Okay, we’ll make an exception for ID…. but they should show it when they vote.

      • WorriedfortheCountry

         Obama even created an “African Americans for Obama” website.

        He could have gone for simply  “Americans for Obama” website?

  • TomK_in_Boston

    Re “you didn’t build that”, Gregg Smith says “Who cares, that’s not the point. Was he mocking achievement or not?”

    No. Silly. Of course not. He said that business depends on the infrastructure, on the whole USA, and individuals “didn’t build that” which is the plain truth.  Are you a native English speaker? I dunno “Gregg Smith” sounds like a pseudonym, maybe you’re really mohammed al-something.

    Why do you think the same smart hard worker is more likely to succeed in the USA than in Haiti? 

    We have a public-private partnership, but the right wants to claim “I did it all myself”. Sheesh, W thought his success was all from his own efforts. Etchasketch has no idea how his success depended on his being a governor and CEO’s son.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Yeah, he had his father take his SATs and get 1600.

      Yeah, he had his father take his courses at BYU and achieve valedictorian.

      Romney gave away his inheritance and started his own business from scratch.

      Your attempt to diminish Romney’s success is reminiscent still trying to blame Bush for Obama’s failures. What is the statute of limitations?

      For every Romney, how many Paris Hiltons are there?

      • jimino

        Paris Hilton has made a lot of her own money so the market says she must be worth it. What’s your point?

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           Is that right?  Famous for being famous?

          You get my point.  There are plenty of scions of wealth that are failures.

          • jimino

            She’s made a lot of money.  In the market.  How can you call her a failure?  How are you judging success? What scions of wealth are you talking about?

          • WorriedfortheCountry

             I guess you don’t get my point. 

            Regarding Paris, I am not privy to her balance sheet.  Maybe she makes more by self promotion than it costs her so she might be a poor example.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      TomK  please name Obama’s ‘infrastructure’ achievement.

      Keystone (it wouldn’t have cost the taxpayers a dime)?

      Hoover Dam II?  Still waiting.

      Solyndra?  $500M done the tubes.  Ooops!!!

      We are still waiting on the Joe Biden stimulus web site that tracks the jobs.

      • ulTRAX2

        Gee… I’ve been seeing those Stimulus signs all over Mass. So because the work’s been spread out over the nation it doesn’t count? Are there ANY intelligent or fair minded right wingers out there?

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           I get some signs?  What was the cost of the signs?  Another waste.

          The truth is very little of the stimulus was spent on infrastructure.

          Even Obama joked “I guess shovel ready wasn’t really shovel ready”.  A rare moment of candor.

          The point is if you spend unprecedented amount of stimulus dollars you might want something permanent to show for it.

          • ulTRAX2

            As I recall just about 110 billion for the entire nation. So why are you demanding to see where those big mega infrastructure projects are? You’re just floating a partisan red herring. Should we ask what We The People got for the $2.9 TRILLION Bush pissed away on interest over his 8 years?

      • jimino

        Most people don’t think it’s a good idea to put on a new addition, like a car garage, while the roof over your bedroom is leaking.  Stupid people with no concept of how to spend money efficiently and prioritize might think it’s the way to go, but nobody intelligent would.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           So idiots created the TVA and the Hoover Dam?  We are still benefiting to this day.

          What will the legacy of the Obama stimulus be 30 years hence?

          • jimino

            Where do we currently need the equivalent of the TVA or Hoover Dam before we fix the stuff we already have built and is crumbling from lack of care and maintenance?

        • Gregg Smith

          … or building an electric car when we need a pipeline.

    • Gregg Smith

      “I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.”Mocking achievement.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       ”Etchasketch has no idea how his success depended on his being a governor and CEO’s son.”

      That is a highly prejudicial statement.

      You would be equally offended if I said:  Obama owes his success to being black because he never would have gotten into Harvard Law if he wasn’t black.

      • http://twitter.com/Ziljan_Vega Logan

        You might want to look up the word “prejudicial” in a dictionary.  It’s pretty logical to assume that anyone with wealthy and politically powerful parents had more advantages than most people in the USA.

        And if you think being black in America is like winning the lottery, then you are living in an alternate universe.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           Ah, you are attributing to me something I didn’t say. However, it is possible that Mr. Obama did have a leg up in getting into Harvard.  I’m sure there are many other Ivy League peers of Obama with equal achievements who didn’t get into Harvard Law.  It is unfortunate that the racial bias of the affirmative action system and quotas creates that doubt.

          My point about Romney is that his achievements were his not his fathers.  Sure he went to a good prep school but he still had to do the hard work to achieve the 1600 on his SAT.  Maybe his famous father helped him get into Stanford?  Sounds like he did it on his own merits.  However, at some point you have to stop giving Daddy credit.  Especially in Romney’s case because his achievements are very clear and self standing.

          It IS prejudicial to assume Mitt’s achievements were because of Daddy.  Fortunately for Mitt, there is no doubt he deserved his achievement (SAT score, valedictorian, top tier of his class in Harvard business/Harvard Law.

          Look up pre-judge.  By your standard ANYONE born into wealth can’t be successful on their own.  Is that fair?

          • http://twitter.com/Ziljan_Vega Logan

            You make it sound like Romney struck out on his own at the age of 7 and shunned his inheritance, nursed himself, and paid for his own college. But in reality, Romney’s father passed away when Mitt was 48 years old and already the CEO of Bain for 10 years.  Everything about Mitt was formed by that time, including whatever social advantages he had as a result of his parents being wealthy.

            NO ONE is formed in a vacuum. We are all the result of our culture, our upbringing and our family’s resources (or lack there of). How can you be proud to be an American, and say in the same breath that you did it all by yourself?  The roads that you drive on, the city that you live in, the education and culture and the wealth that we all take for granted, the very land that you stand on now, all of this was handed to you by people that came before you. No one is self made. We are a nation of individuals who allow each other to prosper by our collective action, and we pass the sum of this prosperity down to our children.  That is what being an American is all about. 

          • WorriedfortheCountry

             You are still trying to somehow diminish Romney’s achievements with hypotheticals insted of evidence based assertions.  The truth is you have no idea how much political influence Romney’s father provided.

            Let’s pick a prominent Democrat.  Ted Kennedy.  No doubt Teddy rode his brothers coattails into office — with Daddy’s money.  Now do you equally want to diminish any of Ted Kennedy’s ‘so called’ achievements because of every advantage he had.

          • http://twitter.com/Ziljan_Vega Logan

            As Isaac Newton himself once said, “If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants”.  If the inventor of calculus and classical physics can humble himself enough to give credit to his forebearers in then distant and extinct foreign civilizations, I think Romney can give a little credit to the circumstances of more immediate birth. 

            Obama was given much less, and yet still manages to give far more credit to the advantages afforded by his own humble upbringing.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

            You try to introduce facts not yet in evidence.

            You are obsessed.

          • http://twitter.com/Ziljan_Vega Logan

            the last word

          • TomK_in_Boston

            Oh please. His accomplishments are part his own and part based on his advantages. It’s a lot easier to get high SAT and everything else when you’re born to privilege. We work hard, but the fact is that our hard work is more likely to pay off. Our odds are better. The “born on 3′rd base and think they hit a triple” crowd are disgusting.

            Ditto for the USA. Everyone’s hard work and innovation is more likely to succeed with lots of big gub’mint projects making the USA a great place to live and work.

        • Steve__T

           That last sentence truly applies.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    OK, Obama wants to take credit for 4.5M new private sector jobs (despite the 5M jobs lost).  OK, but at what cost. 

    $5.4T in deficit spending.

    Further, don’t forget the $2T the Fed dumped into the economy at a cost of $1M per job created.
     

    • ulTRAX2

      Gee… thanks for admitting that even after ALL THAT MONEY AND EFFORT, the GOP did SO MUCH DAMAGE to the economy… it’s still not enough to fix it.

      BTW, time to start using real BLS numbers. The latest numbers up from July show there are more people working now than in Jan 09 when Obama inherited a GOP economy in utter freefall.

      • WorriedfortheCountry

        I’ve always blamed Bush for overspending but it pales in comparison to Obama’s spending.

        Too bad our children and grandchildren will have to suffer for this huge debt.

        • Gregg Smith

          Me too. I think the Tea party arose from Conservatives loss of confidence under Bush. His massive spending,immigration policy, Harriet Meyers nomination, the Dubai ports deal and most of all TARP were the catalysts. The tea Party has transformed the Republican party and put the focus back on a smaller more effective government.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

             I know.  I almost threw something at the TV when I heard Cheney exclaim “deficits don’t matter”.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            So what?

            You don’t statistically exist.

            You and your ilk have been so overrepresented among the Beltway Inbreds it’s like listening to the 100 million Frenchmen who were in La Resistance during WWII: They all can’t possibly be telling the truth.

          • ulTRAX2

            For the record were you for the Bush tax cuts knowing We The People were already SIX TRILLION in debt and it would sabotage debt paydown?

            Yes or no?

          • WorriedfortheCountry

             No, I was not in favor of ANY of the Bush tax cuts.

            However, I am in favor of major tax simplification a la Romney/Ryan or Simpson-Bowles.

          • ulTRAX2

            Then why do you only blame Bush spending for his deficits when the tax cuts cost us during his 8 years perhaps close to 2 trillion?

          • jimino

            Can you name JUST ONE of the tax “loopholes” R/R suggests be closed, without which it the “plan” is utter nonsense? And Ryan opposed S-B as did virtually every Republican who signed Norquist’s pledge. They can’t even get their lies straight.

          • Gregg Smith

            That’s an Evel Knievel leap built into an irrelevant question.

            It’s Obama vs. Romney and the debt is now $16 trillion. Focus.

          • ulTRAX2

            And by your logic… the way we get out of debt is to do MORE of what helped cause it? Ya, come to think of it… that IS what you’re in favor of.  

          • modavations

            I’m for any tax cuts, any time.Just cut the budget a commensurate amount.I spend my money better then the govt spends my money!!

          • Gregg Smith

            Me too, although I got his larger point. He was beat up a bit unfairly but I guess he had it coming. The irony, of course, is the liberals who decried him then and excuse Obama’s exponentially bigger deficits now.

          • ulTRAX2

            Always deflecting, aren’t you Greggg? Of course this helps you evade the fiscal insanity of the Bush years… policies YOU supported.

          • Gregg Smith

            Evidently you haven’t read my comments concerning Bush’s spending, Dubai ports, immigration and Harriet Meyers. 

          • modavations

            If we forestall the End Of The World,the Deficits don’t matter.That was the gist

          • ulTRAX2

            No, the Tea Party is the rabid edge of Starve The Beast… spoiled rotten Free Lunchers who don’t mind pissing away $15 trillion on themselves the past 30 years yet REFUSE to tax themselves for it.

          • modavations

            Do you believe in Private Property?What would you peg the highest tax rate at?

          • modavations

            General G,commander of the liberated Middle States.They started in Boston many moons ago.We are Adams’ Sons Of Liberty.We fight the tyrants,the totalitarians,the overlords

        • ulTRAX2

          If you were a true fiscal conservative you’d not play the new intellectually dishonest GOP game that revenue plays NO part in a budget. I posted the Bush revenue numbers in another forum. In constant dollars Bush’s revenues were BELOW Clinton’s last year for 6 of the Bush’s 8 years. The net loss of revenue to date has been in the trillions.

        • jimino

          I may have missed it.  Did you name one of the tax “loopholes” the RR plan proposes closing, without which their budget plan is nonexistent?  Can you or anyone name one?

          • jimino

             I didn’t think so. 

      • Gregg Smith

        Cite the numbers.

        • ulTRAX2

          Were you in a coma from mid-08 to Jan 09? Or are you just playing stupid?  

          • Gregg Smith

            You said the July numbers are just in. I have not seen them. I also claimed the language was being tortured and I stand by it. Does “Jobs created” mean Net? Gross? U6, U3, U? Does it mean “created or saved“. How much part time work is replacing full time work? Are underemployed counted? What’s the LFPR?

            I’m a simple man. My take is there are fewer people working today than when Obama took office. If that finally changed a few weeks ago then please cite the numbers.

          • ulTRAX2

            Series Id:           LNS11000000
            Seasonally Adjusted

            Series title:        (Seas) Civilian Labor Force Level

            and

            Series Id:           LNS12000000 Seasonally Adjusted

            Series title:        (Seas) Employment Level

            Labor force status:  Employed

          • Gregg Smith

            I don’t know what that means, gotta link? I’m a simple man.

          • ulTRAX2

            There is no BLS link to the data pages. You have to generate the numbers yourself. Time to get off your butt.

          • Gregg Smith

            Alrighty then.

          • Steve__T

             You forgot minded between simple and man

          • modavations

            Sir,give me a set of figures and I’ll make them say anything you want.Just like the E.Anglia guys

          • modavations

            That’s a dodge and your Bush antipathy will give you Ulcers.Face the future and tell me your prescriptions,your vision.

    • MadMarkTheCodeWarrior

      Please stop lumping Dubya’s IOU for two wars in there.
      It does no one any favors to repeat distorted statistics.

      How much of that money was changed from direct spending into tax cuts for business / wealthy interests at Republican insistence which retargeted funding away from the most efficient means of stimulating economic activity to the least efficient means?

      • WorriedfortheCountry

        Bush’s largest deficits were in his final two years.

        How much of his debt is the responsibility of the Reid/Pelosi congress?

      • modavations

        1 trillion has been spent on the wars(100Bill.per year)…It’s Medicare that’s the problem.We will pay 457 billion interest on the debt this year alone!!

        • jimino

          Medicare and Social Security have NOTHING to do with our country’s current debt on which interest is being paid.

          • ulTRAX2

            Actually we’re paying interest INTO the Social Security trust fund because it’s all been loaned to the on-budget accounts and spent.  

    • modavations

      Net jobs created are 400,000

    • hennorama

      The NFL season’s started again, so we can again say “Come ONNNN, man!”

      Sorry, but attributing the the entirety of the 2009 deficit of $1.413 trillion to Pres. Obama’s policies is like saying Pres. Bush II was responsible for the 2001 surplus of $128 billion.  It’s nonsense.  Pres. Obama’s policies perhaps added $200 billion to the 2009 deficit. 

  • Gregg Smith
    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Is there time to wheel out the greek columns to Bank of America stadium?

      • Gregg Smith

        I’m sure there is.

    • ulTRAX2

      Which is why I asked you what was the forecast WHEN THEY MADE THE DECISION TO MOVE INDOORS. Do you seriously think putting on a convention with all its security, logistics, media coverage etc can be just changed in a couple of hours?

      • Gregg Smith

        No one knew the forecast when they made the decision last month.

        • ulTRAX2

          source?

        • ulTRAX2

          Never mind… it’s just another of your right wing lies. The decision was made YESTERDAY:

          http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/09/06/3506956/faithful-make-backup-plans-after.html

          • Gregg Smith

            They made it weeks ago.

          • ulTRAX2

            NOT THE DECISION TO MOVE THE EVENT INDOORS. Please stop being an ultra-maroon. You KNOW that’s the only issue.

          • Gregg Smith

            In fairness they probably didn’t make the final call until Clint did his empty chair thing but the writing has been on the wall for months now.

          • Gregg Smith

            BTW, “ultra-maroon”, I love that color!

      • modavations

        Bull Twangeroo.He was afraid of empty seats

    • jimino
      • Gregg Smith

        I don’t lie but I am ignorant of many things even though I’m smart as hell. When I posted the 10PM slot said 0%. Your update says 20%. Now it says 10%. It won’t rain.

        Compared to filling seats rain is the least of their worries.

  • Gregg Smith

    This is such a good observation, Last night Clinton turned “Yes we can” into “No one could have”. Rich.

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/09/06/Bill-Clinton-Bait-and-Switch-Yes-We-Can-No-One-Could-Have

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Imagine FDR going to the American people after Pearl Harbor and saying “No one can defeat the Japanese and Nazis”.

      So much for American exceptionalism.

      • jimino

        Imagine every member of the opposing party agreeing to vote against anything FDR proposed and you might be in the range of equivalency.  And it took more than one term to accomplish it with the joint effort and money of ALL Americans as well as the lives of those from every walk of life.

        And America is not exceptional when an entire party decides that its only mission is to defeat the other party’s candidate, despite that candidate having implemented policies that the opposing party supported until that candidate did. 

        • Gregg Smith

          He had the majorities for to years and gat what he wanted. It failed.

          • ulTRAX2

            Failed by what standard?  Did Obama stop the Bush economy from plunging into the abyss? Yup. Was the Stimulus big enough to undo all the damage YOUR nutty right wing policies created. Nope.

            Maybe you’re right.

          • modavations

            Why must you always post a question then answer it.How much should we have spent.?Are you aware we will spend 457Billion this year alone in interest.

          • Gregg Smith

            No, he does not but he knows to the penny what Bush spent on interest.

          • ulTRAX2

            Are you somewho comforted when you mispresent what I write?

            I’m the deficit hawk here not you and I’ve frequently gone on record that interest is the BIGGEST waste of money in the federal budget. All you do is post your nonsense that pathetic revenues under Bush = a revenue boom. But then what can we expect from a Free Lunch right winger.   

          • Gregg Smith

            You know in your heart I’m right.

        • William

           So when Senator Harry Reid (D) stood up in the Senate and said “This war is lost” that was an example of supporting President Bush and the troops in the field?

  • ulTRAX2

    Getting back to the actual topic of this forum… I wrote earlier:

    I think Obama needs to eat some crow… for a Stimulus that was too small, for not moving faster to rid the commodity markets of parasitic speculators who are sucking the life out of the economy, for not reshaping Wall Street to move it away from speculation into productive activities… but especially for not breaking up the mega-banks and prosecuting the sociopathic predators on Wall Street whose greed actually destroyed our economy… and perhaps he can explain why he refused to seek war crimes trials for some members of the last administration.

    To which I should add I hope Obama tries to inoculate the public against the vast amount of right wing super PAC lies and distortions that are coming our way. Perhaps he can turn that onslaught to his advantage if he gets the public to concentrate on why someone feels the need to spend money on lies and distortions, instead of falling for the lies. After all, the point of such political lies is to con a citizen out of their vote… to vote in a way they would not if they knew the truth.

    • modavations

      I didn’t read this the first time

      • Gregg Smith

        Just read the first and last sentences and skip the rest, especially if it’s in bold. 

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Eating crow is not in Obama’s DNA.

      Do you expect him to suddenly embrace Simpson-Bowles?

      Plan to be disappointed.

      • modavations

        Simpson Bowles didn’t address Medicare.This is what’s the driving the Debt

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          Very true.

    • Gregg Smith

      “I should have spent even more” is not a platform Obama can sell.

      • ulTRAX2

        Perhaps the BIGGER lesson here is don’t risk the entire economy with reckless deregulation then complain when someone can’t clean your mess up fast enough.

        • modavations

          The EPA just got it’s head handed to it over the Clean Air Legislation.Had the Fed Judge not interceeded another 50 Zillion companies would have fled these shores.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Tonight, Biden will claim this is another big f’n deal and cede his time to Scarlett Johanson.

  • ulTRAX2

    When Reagan won reelection the unemployment rate was 7.4%

    It was 7% or above for FIVE YEARS.

    • modavations

      Reagan walked into a wicked recession.When Reagan took office unemployement was 11%,the interest rate was 17% inflation was 12%..Pres.Obama was not impressed,shanghied,or conscripted.He volunteered.Reagan didn’t wring his hand,blame tsunamis,sunspots….He fixed it

      • ulTRAX2

        Will the mods PLEASE nuke the above post. It contains deliberate falsehoods. The economy was NOT in recession in Jan 81… that started in July 81. http://www.nber.org/cycles/

        And the unemployment rate was NOT 11%. It was 7.5%… though it did get to 10.8% in Dec 1982.  source: BLS Series Id: LNS14000000

        • modavations

          Reactionaries always want to thwart Free Speech.The 1st ammendent is Free Political Speech.Do you accept the Constsitutiion?

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Its all about the trend my friend.  How many jobs were being added per month in  1984?  Close to 350K.

    • modavations

      23 million jobs were created young man

    • Joseph_Wisconsin

       Reagan had an easy time with Republicans back then.  They loved his spending and his deficits.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Someone was selling “jounalists for Obama” tee shirts at the DNC as a gag.

    The lame stream media didn’t get the joke and bought them up. They sold out.

  • Michiganjf
  • vdeniston

    Does anyone know the approximate time Obama is starting his speech tonight? I can’t find a concrete timeline anywhere!

    • Gregg Smith

      10ish.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Anyone see Lizzy Warren last night?

    The system is rigged?

    She forgot to mention that the system is rigged in favor of fake Indians and house flippers.
     

    • Mouse_2012

      What % does it take to be Indian? How about black?

    • OnPointComments

      Elizabeth Warren is the most stereotypical, lunatic, shrieking harpy of a hypocritical limousine liberal I’ve ever seen.  Surely there are enough sane people left in Massachusetts that they won’t subject the rest of the nation to seeing her for the next four years.

  • donniethebrasco

    If you give Clinton enough money (like Marc Rich), he will give you a pardon (or good speech).

    Clinton does do a great job as a speaker.

  • donniethebrasco

    The economy was Bush’s fault, now it is Romney’s fault.

    The buck stops somewhere else.

  • donniethebrasco

    I’ve met Teddy Roosevelt, Barack Obama is no Teddy Roosevelt.

    • Steve__T

      Wow you must be what 125 years old

  • ulTRAX2

    I’d also like to see Obama say that Starve The Beast is akin to treason.

    Just what is Grover Norquist’s strategy of “Starve The Beast”? It was once a fringe far Right wing strategy to use fiscal irresponsibility as a political weapon. The GOP would rack up debt with irresponsible tax cuts and reckless spending to benefit their wealthy and corporate constituency. And and when the political pendulum shifted and the Democrats took power, that new debt would restrain them. Eventually this fiscal irresponsibility would create a financial crisis where the GOP could go in for the kill and go after Democratic programs they knew could never get voters to weaken or kill through the ballot box.

    Starve The Beast is now the mainstream in the GOP with the vast majority of GOP representatives and senators having signed Grover Norquist’s pledge to pursue this strategy.

    Given Starve The Beast calls for the willful sabotaging of government revenues and the creation of massive debt, it is a deliberate attack on the fiscal health of government and affects government’s ability deal with emergencies.At what point does this strategy cross the line into treason? Perhaps it already has with the GOP

    • modavations

      Do you believe in Private Property.Please telllme how you would fix the economy.Please keep it to one paragraph.Now,do you believe in Private Property

    • modavations

      If by Starving The Beast,you mean reducing govt.to a manageable level,I’m for “That Diet”.The Wars cost 1 trillion over 10 years.The Bush tax cuts cost the Treasury 370Billionish a year.Welfare costs us a bit under 1 trillion per annum,that doesn’t include Medicare,or S.Security.
                Tax cuts are not a sin.I spend my money far more efficiently then the Govt.Cut the taxes and cut a commensurate amount of spending.
                  Communists believe Govt.owns everything.How do you stand?

    • TomK_in_Boston

      Starve the beast = class warfare, and it sums up the RR budget. The howling and chicken little stuff about the deficit is designed to scare voters into agreeing to starve the beast. Eff them. The beast is the best friend the middle class ever had.

  • TomK_in_Boston

    Obama says: “…roads, bridges, list of infrastructure…if you have a small biz, you didn’t build THAT”, and righties like “Gregg Smith” parrot the Official Party Line that the “THAT” referred to the business, not the infrastructure. They run a whole campaign based on that Lie and the Party Members go, uh-huh. ROTFL. They’re such slaves to ideology that they pretend not to understand English, or….maybe they really don’t! Better watch out, Gregg, your friends want to make English the official language of the USA. Do I see a GED in your future?

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Obama, himself, just admitted that he muffed the syntax.

      • TomK_in_Boston

        So what? He didn’t speak with perfect precision. I have no problem understanding imperfect English. I hear it every day. I was born in the USA, I’m a native English speaker. 

    • Michiganjf

      Ha! Nice!

    • jimino

      Romney didn’t even know that he himself had selected Paul Ryan as VICE President instead of President until someone corrected him.  Oh I suppose some may claim he just misspoke, but he did say it in plain English, so he must have meant it.

    • OnPointComments

      I read an opinion that summed up the speech very well: 

      The problem for Obama and his supporters is that his argument is deeply flawed. We do succeed with help, but many people have the exact same access to all these various supports…yet some succeed and some fail.  Also, a simple point of fact: government is the people, not something outside and above the people. Without successful people paying taxes, there would be no way for government to do anything. Government depends on us, not the other way around; the president has this backwards. Yet the president and his supporters imagine that being smart and working hard are only loosely associated with success. His attitude implies that success is more about luck and good fortune than hard work. That’s an erroneous assumption.

      • ulTRAX2

        Nonsense. The public and private sectors need each other. When working well they bootstrap each other to higher and higher levels of prosperity. THIS is JFK’s tide that raises all boats not irresponsible tax cuts for the rich.

        When the Right sabotages the public sector, they destroy that synergy.

      • sickofthechit

         They want the 99% of us to play in a poker game with 100 chips and 100 cards.  They and the wealthiest 20% get 88 of the chips and 88 of the cards.  How can you say the rest of us have equal access to resources with that kind of split?!

        • OnPointComments

          How do you explain two people, with exactly the same access to exactly the same resources, yet one fails and one succeeds?

      • OnPointComments

        What is the primary factor that determines a person’s success or failure in life?

  • modavations

    God said(insert Deity of choice)”behold the Cosmos I have created in 6 days…Pres.Obama chimed,”not so fast Lord,we provided the infrastructure”

    • MordecaiCarroll

      Just curious: How does a successful business person such as yourself have the time to post dozens of comments on OnPoint discussion forums on a daily basis?  I would think that your important rewarding job  would demand more of your time than that. 

      • Michiganjf

        Ha! Nice again!

        … and under a dozen names, no less!

        • MordecaiCarroll

          Thanks!  Although this is my first post of the day and MordecaiCarroll is the only name I ever post under on this site

      • DrewInGeorgia

        It’s The Do Little Principle. You know, the principle in which the less someone actually does the more they think they deserve.

        • MordecaiCarroll

          I suspect that this might be the case with regard to some commenters on this forum

          • DrewInGeorgia

            That’s not a suspicion, it’s called rational thought.

        • Gregg Smith

          That, DrewInGeorgia, was brilliant! You’ve described the occupiers to a tee. You have encapsulated Obama’s “didn’t build that” mentality perfectly. Bravo!

      • modavations

        The current economic malaise leaves all of us with time on their hands.

  • ulTRAX2

    Anyone else want to take the No MODA Pledge? Of all people banned from this forum… his banning was the most justified since he was most disruptive to this forum. Now he’s back. If nothing else I won’t lose my temper if I don’t respond to the resident Village I****.   

    • Gregg Smith

      Who said he was banned?

      • ulTRAX2

        How about you Gregg? You in too?

        • Gregg Smith

          No way. Who is more disruptive than you? 

          • ulTRAX2

            I’m hardly disruptive. You just don’t like getting your butt kicked.

          • Gregg Smith

            Dude, you vomit the same tired, decades old crap all over everybody. You’re disruptive.

          • jefe68

            Funny, I was thinking the dame thing about all the BS you post.

          • Gregg Smith

            Funny. Have you read your own post?

            “Funny, I was thinking the dame thing about all the BS you post.”

            “It’s amazing how inane they are.”

            “Are you wearing clown shoes when you post?”

            “I’m the kind of person who thinks people who are obsessed about guns, such as yourself, are the ones who are messed up….”

            “Stop whining already”

            “This has to be the height of legal hogwash…:

            I don’t post vitriol.

    • hennorama

      Already in.

  • ulTRAX2

    AGAIN the Orwellian Right here is rewriting the Reagan record… claiming there were 23 million new jobs created during his 8 years.
     
    According to the BLS
     
    Series Id:           LNS12000000
    Seasonally Adjusted
    Series title:        (Seas) Employment Level
    Labor force status:  Employed
    Age:                 16 years and over in millions
     
     
     
     116.708  Jan 89  
    -99.955   Jan 81
    ————————–
    16.753 million new net jobs
     
    What the Orwellian Right routinely does is steal employment and revenue data from Carter and Bush2 to make Reagan’s pathetic record look better. True believers here reguritate those lies.

    • modavations

      23 million jobs were produced 

  • hennorama

    I posted this earlier as a repsonse, but I want to put it here up front, in an effort to reduce the back and forth regarding, let’s just say “liberal interpretations of reality.”

    Maybe we could all agree that discussing the “he lied!” stuff is counter-productive and a pretty significant time waste, since it ain’t gonna stop.

    “OK, perhaps we can agree that the truth is being distorted by both presidential campaigns to try to gain political advantage.  I think this is beyond dispute, regardless of whether one calls it lying, quoting out of context, misuse of statistics, cherry picking of data, whatever.  Both sides are doing it.

    This is nothing new, but it has become more obvious and is more easily challenged due to the searchability of digital media.  This is a good thing for those who pay attention.

    The media has pretty widely been on top of this, which is also a good thing.

    While it is fun to wish for campaigns that discuss larger issues than “you lied when you said such-and-such, you bastard!” the reality is that this stuff will continue, because it works on some people.”

    I know I’m dreaming, but it’s worth a try at least.

    • sickofthechit

       My brother and brother-in-law were both runners in high school and beyond.  Neither of them has ever claimed somebody else’s time.  When Ryan claimed he ran a 2 hour and 50 minute marathon as his personal best instead of the actual 4 hours and a few minutes he either proved  himself seriously delusional or a shameless liar.  You run a marathon you don’t miss remember your time.  Especially not by more than an hour.

      • hennorama

        Yes, that’s a pretty major one, and very hard to overlook, since it’s very personal to boot.

        My point was that the media has been covering this pretty well, and discussing these things in here is both pointless and takes away from more important topics.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Did we believe Clinton last time he wagged his finger at us?

    Only if we were naive.

    • ulTRAX2

      Thanks for that thoughtful critique of his speech. NOT!

      So sad what you and Greggg have been reduced to that that’s what you both focus on. Nothing about Michell’s dress? Warren’s hair?

      Sometimes I think you need to post just to see your name on the board.

      • WorriedfortheCountry

         Actually I was reminded of the blue dress.

      • WorriedfortheCountry

         And I don’t focus on those items. Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else.

        I don’t mind poking fun or pointing out hypocrisy on occasion.

      • jefe68

        It’s amazing how inane they are.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    “I vs. We”

    JFK is turning over in his grave.

    “Ask not what your country can do for you….. “

    • ulTRAX2

      Thanks for proving my point!

      • Joseph_Wisconsin

          Yes excellent.  The Republican Party and Romney/Ryan is all about  an “I,” “Me,” “Mine,” “I’ve got mine Jack, screw everyone else!” view of America.   The idea that JFK would support the current Republican Part is ridiculous, he even ran in opposition to Nixon, a leftie socialist compared to Republicans today.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           Obama says the word “I” more than any President in our history.

          • jefe68

            Are you wearing clown shoes when you post?

        • WorriedfortheCountry

           JFK understood that tax cuts would stimulate the economy.  That concept is foreign to Obama.  There is no evidence he ever took an economics course.

          • sickofthechit

            If tax cuts are such a magic elixir why hasn’t eleven years of them stimulated the economy? 

  • NC_Annie

    Rugged individualism only gets you so far- cooperation lifts everyone to a better place. Obama can convince us to help him  move our country forward. I want him to do that tonight-

    • notafeminista

      You’ve never been on a committee have you.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    At least the Obama campaign understands that Obama is like Carter.  The thing they don’t understand is Obama is much worse than Carter.
     

  • sickofthechit

    I had better hear that they will be reaching out to all people in all states.  Not just the blue ones.   I am stuck in a red state (because I love it), but dammit, it’s really frustrating to send dozens of ideas (really good ones) to the Whitehouse and have no response.

    My favorite was when he had that PR visit in his first visit to the RV capital of the world (Elkhardt, IN) because they had the nation’s highest unemployment rates (25%+). My idea that day, was, “Why not reactivate the shuttered plants to build stripped down mobile classrooms to travel the country and educate us for the new “Green Jobs” of the future?”.  They could have rolled from community to community holding nationwide demo events.

    I had others to stem the rising tide of foreclosures, etc., etc., etc.
     No response on any…..

    He still has my vote.

    Charles A. Bowsher

  • BetterThanItWas4YearsAgo

    I for one am much better off than I was four years ago.

    Four years ago I was working for a company that was hemorrhaging jobs in the wake of the financial crisis because there just wasn’t enough work. Everyday my co-workers and I lived with the fear that today was our last day of employment.

    Now I am working for a company with growing revenues and a growing labor force. I don’t worry that there will be to little work, I worry that there will be to much.

    To answer the question are we better off just look at the planned layoffs. Four it was in the hundreds of thousands currently it is in the tens of thousands.

    If you think it was worse four years ago, you have forgotten how much worse it truly was four years ago.

  • jason keedy

    I am writing to say that, first off, I have been very pleased and inspired by the convention thus far. Speeches by Booker, Warren, and Kamala Harris (AG fof California) served to lift my spirit and sharpen my resolve. I believe Clinton’s speech completely knocked all of Romney/Ryan’s flimsy rhetoric out of their respective orbits. He knows how little substance there is to the Republican plan to turn the economy around, and he successfully portrayed how Romney/Ryan would like to take this country back to the 1800′s. It was sort of like playing softball… Ryan lobs up a complete lie about Obama gutting Medicare and Clinton rips it out of the park (all while saying Ryan had brass balls…Hilarious!).
    Also…The whole Carter thing is just sad and ridiculous. Democrats should not have to apologize for Obama’s record. He has righted the ship and set us up for future prosperity (all of us, not just millionaires). Republicans are once again grasping at straws…or as Clinton said last night “Their they go again…”
    Anyone who is not as excited about this election than the last one is not paying attention.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB0k21sGT_A&feature=related Phaerisee

    I do like Romney’s business experience, but his Gordon Gecko-esque tenure at Bain Capital concerns me. I also have a problem with him calling himself pro-life. In fact, Romneycare provided for taxpayer funded abortifacients (Pharmaceuticals that cause spontaneous abortion) How many evangelicals and catholics know this? He also is continually calling himself a christian to gain votes, when most of us learned in Sunday school that this is not the case.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGFAph3lWqw

  • Gregg Smith

    What is with the outsourcing theme? Elizabeth Warren used it and now Kerry has too. They aren’t the only ones. Romney did not outsource any jobs while at Bain. Obama has outsourced tons. How do they get away with the lie?

  • burroak

    Too many ideas to list for the economy, but here are a couple:
        All those 19th century, dirty, dangling, outdated, stained telephone poles, why cant we put them underground?
        Two things that accomplishes; one we do not have to hear in the news every year about the tens and hundreds of thousands of Americans who are without electricity because of ice, and wind storms, hurricanes and tornadoes. Second, it boosts the economy. How: this new infrastructure needs the following: engineers to design all the components, builders to build all the components, maintanence crews to maintain all the components and managers and police to supervise all the components.  And the components…they are all made in the United States of America.
       Second, the Centurian project: as we have welcomed the auto industry, airline industry, why not invest in 21st century rapid transit. First, a commission to study where are the most congested roads in the nation.  Most likely the large metropolitan areas. And then study the major traveled corridors in the country: Chicago to Los Angelas, New York to Miami, whereever.
        One can this do: employ millions of Americans. How think of all the different parts and components this new infrastructure involves. Nowadays, many Americans spend hours a day, and days a month in traffic. You can never get that time back. Time that you could spend with you children, spouse, friends, neighbors, and hobbies.  People can look back and realize they have wasted hundreds, if not thousands of hours sitting on a oily-stained, hot surface.
        What better way to welcome the 21st century and demonstrating  America’s awesome talents, ingeniuty, and entrepreneurship.
         And what better to travel to Chicago at night, Denver at Dawn, Minneoapolis in the morning in a 21st American made product that goes 160 mile per hour, while you sip your coffee or tea, write poetry, study music, learn on the computer, or just have an interesting, engaging conversation with a fellow American.

  • Gregg Smith

    Joe Biden is talking. He just told the lie about Obama’s mother and the insurance company. Unbelievable. 

    I have projects and deadlines, I should go burn some midnight oil in my studio. But Obama’s speech is coming up… I’ll tape it and ignore it later. See ya’.

  • hennorama

    While I was trying to determine how many people Mr. Romney managed at Bain Capital, I got interested in how he saved his original employer, Bain & Co.

    I found a pretty shocking article, which essentially says that Mr. Romney saved that firm in part by using some pretty dodgy tactics.  In essence, he got the FDIC to agree to take 30 cents on the dollar in repayment of part of a loan Bain & Co. owed to a bank that had been taken over by the FDIC.

    I disagree with the author’s characterization of this as a “federal bailout,” which implies the Federal government was left on the hook. While the FDIC is a Federal agency, it is funded by member financial institutions and not directly by taxpayers.

    Regardless, it’s pretty shocking.

    Read it for yourself here: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-federal-bailout-that-saved-mitt-romney-20120829

    Guess I missed this back in July, when Stephanie Cutter referenced it.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Gee no mention how he found time for 104 5 hour rounds of golf while 23 million are out of work while 54 million are on food stamps.

    I really want to know Obama’s secret.

    • massachusettensis

      You do know that Obama has taken less time off than both Reagan and G.W. Bush at the same point in their first terms, right?  I mean you must be trying to be intentionally provocative rather than just regurgitating some asinine statistic you picked up somewhere without applying any scrutiny to it in order to determine whether its at all a valid or relevant point, right?

      • notafeminista

        You do know that by claiming it’s okay because the other guy did it only more pretty much removes all credibility for the argument.

        The Left carried on night and day about President Bush not being behind his desk 24/7 – but now that “we won – get over it” wants to take a day off, well then by all means.

        • massachusettensis

           No, that’s not right.  Comparing things that are similar is the perfect way to determine if one’s behavior is outside the norm.  In this case by comparing how much “off time” the presidents take show that Obama has taken substantially less time off than his predecessors thereby letting facts disarm a spurious charge against him.

          Whats not credible is an argument predicated on the assumption that  a human being can work 24/7/365 for over three years without taking time off or relaxing, which is what @WorriedfortheCountry:disquswas alluding President Obama should be doing.

          I am not criticizing how much time President Bush took off during his time in office, but its factually accurate to say he took the most of any previous president.  Now the job of president is probably more stressful than anyone who hasn’t been president can know, so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt that he needed it.  However, it is also factually accurate to say that Obama has not even taken the second most time off.

          So please don’t assume that I’m one of the faceless minions you demonize and dismiss as “the left” and don’t come at me talking about “credibility” because you have none.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      “Now watch this drive.”

ONPOINT
TODAY
Apr 25, 2014
President Barack Obama and ASIMO, an acronym for Advanced Step in Innovative MObility, bow to each other during a youth science event at the National Museum of Emerging Science and Innovation, known as the Miraikan, in Tokyo, Thursday, April 24, 2014. (AP)

Guns in Georgia. Obama in Asia. Affirmative Action. And Joe Biden in Ukraine. Our weekly news roundtable.

Apr 25, 2014
In this Saturday, Aug. 11, 2012 file photo, employees of the New Hampshire state health department set up a temporary clinic at the the middle school in Stratham, N.H., to test hundreds of people for hepatitis C related to an outbreak at nearby Exeter Hospital. A new drug, Sovaldi, is said to successful treat more than 90 percent of Hepatitis C patients. (AP)

Super expensive miracle drugs. How much can we afford to pay?

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Apr 24, 2014
A Buddhist monk lights the funeral pyre of Nepalese mountaineer Ang Kaji Sherpa, killed in an avalanche on Mount Everest, during his funeral ceremony in Katmandu, Nepal, Monday, April 21, 2014.  (AP)

A Sherpa boycott on Everest after a deadly avalanche. We’ll look at climbing, culture, life, death and money at the top of the world.

 
Apr 24, 2014
Senate President Pro Tem Darrell Steinberg, D-Sacramento, left, talks with Sen. Ed Hernandez, D-Covina at the Capitol in Sacramento, Calif., Monday, April 21, 2014. Hernandez proposed a constitutional amendment that would ask voters to again allow public colleges to use race and ethnicity when considering college applicants. The proposal stalled this year after backlash from Asian Americans. (AP)

California as Exhibit A for what happens when a state bans affirmative action in college admissions. We’ll look at race, college and California.

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