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Rape, Abortion And Akin’s Remarks

Furor after Missouri GOP Senate candidate Todd Akin talks of “legitimate rape.”  And the roots of that remark.

In this May 17, 2011 file photo, Rep. Todd Akin, R-Mo., announces his candidacy for U.S. Senate.   On August 19, Akin said in a TV interview that women's bodies can prevent pregnancies in "a legitimate rape" and that conception is rare in such cases. (AP)

In this May 17, 2011 file photo, Rep. Todd Akin, R-Mo., announces his candidacy for U.S. Senate. On August 19, Akin said in a TV interview that women’s bodies can prevent pregnancies in “a legitimate rape” and that conception is rare in such cases. (AP)

And so we’ve got a firestorm over comments on women, rape and pregnancy by Republican U.S. Senate candidate from Missouri, Todd Akin.  His comments made you wonder if you’d heard right.  Akin said that in “legitimate rape” women rarely get pregnant.  That their bodies have “ways to try to shut that whole thing down.”

Now Democrats are in an uproar.  Republicans, too.  They want him out of the race.  Out of sight.  But Congressman Akin is not a space alien.  He’s worked very closely with Paul Ryan on abortion.  His comments didn’t come from nowhere.

This hour, On Point:  Todd Akin, the GOP, and the roots of the “legitimate rape” moment.

-Tom Ashbrook

Guests

Jo Mannies, political reporter for the non-profit news organization the St. Louis Beacon, and writer for the Beacon’s blog “backroom.”

Julie DeCesare,  professor and program director of the OB-GYN residency program at Florida State University.

Mary Kate Cary, contributing editor and blogger for U.S. News and World Report.  Former speechwriter for George H. W. Bush.

Terry O’Neill, president of the National Organization for Women.

From Tom’s Reading List

The New York Times “In an effort to explain his stance on abortion, Representative Todd Akin, the Republican Senate nominee from Missouri, provoked ire across the political spectrum on Sunday by saying that in instances of what he called ‘legitimate rape,’ women’s bodies somehow blocked an unwanted pregnancy.”

CNN “Incendiary remarks by a Republican Senate candidate shifted the political focus Monday to abortion and women’s rights, while certain GOP nominee Mitt Romney and his conservative running mate kept their rhetoric trained on President Barack Obama.”

The Associated Press Since Mitt Romney selected Paul Ryan as his running mate, the presidential campaign’s focus has largely centered on the Wisconsin congressman’s ambitious plan to transform Medicare and slash government spending. But President Barack Obama’s re-election team and its allies have also been highlighting the congressman’s staunchly anti-abortion stance, hoping to buttress its argument that the Republican ticket is hostile to women’s rights.

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  • ElinaProcrastinator

    what is “legitimate rape”? as opposed to “illegitimate rape”?

    Who are these “doctors” advising this imbecile? I want to know the name of the person being cited for dispensing this nonsense, and if that person is an actual doctor with a medical degree, how is he/she/it allowed to practice medicine when this “doctor’s” competence as a rational human being is highly questionable, never mind competence to practice medicine.

    • vito33

      There were no doctors telling him this. He’s a liar as well as a misogynist. 

    • Don_B1

      The hardline anti-abortion and the deficit hawk segments of the Republican Party have a big overlap and they are in TOTAL control of the Republican Party. This attitude IS what the Republican Party leadership STANDS FOR. Note that the denouncements of Akin’s remarks are that he should not have made them, that it was stupid, etc. but not that they are wrong. 

      The anti-abortionists have long held the view that a woman who was “REALLY” raped would not get pregnant so anyone who did MUST have wanted or even solicited the rape. That allows them to “not feel sorry for making a raped woman carry a child resulting from that rape to term.

      See:

      http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#48732520

      Highlight:

      James Leon Holmes (Arkansas) in 1980 that a raped woman got pregnant as often as snowfall in Miami. Appointed to a federal judgeship by GWB.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1205332288 Laurie Beth Brunner

        Who knew that snow fell in Miami between 25,000 and 32,000 times a year?

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Legitimate means legal or according to the laws, rules, or standards for the subject at hand.  Akin could have meant in cases that legally meet the standard of rape, but the word that he probably was searching for was “actual.”

    None of that mitigates the idiocy of his medical opinion, nor does it alter our understanding that as far as he’s concerned, a woman’s decisions about herself require approval from the state.

    • http://ibelieveinbutter.wordpress.com/ Soli

       considering the amount of women who do not report their assaults, and the ones who are coerced, and the ones who are told that they weren’t really raped, combined with the percentage of people convicted of rape (low compared to actual numbers), I’d say any qualifiers of legal/actual/forcible/legitimate are total hogwash.

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        A rape is a rape, whether it is reported or not.  If it meets the legal standard, it’s a rape.  When you say that convictions are lower than actual numbers, I wonder how you know that.

        • http://ibelieveinbutter.wordpress.com/ Soli

          Well, for one, the fact that a lot of assaults do not “qualify” as rape by current federal standards: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/29/us/federal-rules-on-rape-statistics-criticized.html
          And for two, how few arrests are made compared to the amount of rapes reported in the U.S. Which does not take into account the number of people who do not report their attacks.
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_the_United_States as a starting point is not bad.

          And have you forgotten all the stigma around people who report rape? The amount of people who will say the victim asked for it with how they dressed, or where they walked, or that they were drunk? The harassment they can face from their attacker, or the person’s friends or family?

          Or the fact that a commercial like this would have a snowball’s chance in hel of getting on the air in the US?
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGnGPAZcsqE

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

             You’re missing my point.  As far as I’m concerned, when one person forces another to have sex against the second person’s will, it’s rape.  That’s whether it’s done with physical violence or the use of chemicals, and it’s true whether or not it’s reported or a conviction results.

            What I was discussing was the meaning of the words that Akin used.  That’s a separate question from the one that you’re going on about.

          • http://ibelieveinbutter.wordpress.com/ Soli

            My issue comes from the idea that rape somehow needs a qualifying word, and that there are rapes which are not “really” rapes, which pervades our culture.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            It’s a valid question to ask whether a sexual act was a rape or not, but that is answered by asking if both parties consented or not.  

          • Yar

            I would add if there is a large difference in economic or social standing, like an intern and a president, or a maid and a banker, or a secretary and a boss, or a prostitute and a John.  In my mind they are all rape, using economic power to have sex is rape.

            What did Jesus write in the sand where the men were preparing to stone a woman that made them leave her alone?

  • Wm_James_from_Missouri

    I believe Akin was “signaling” to his “ end abortion base” . What he was really saying was, “ Under no circumstances, and irrespective of any contrarian view, we must not allow the other side to “win”. “ This crowd believes that it is acceptable to forfeit women that have been raped to the rapists’ agendas. They believe that stopping abortion is “Gods will” and therefore their warrant that justifies their position. If I am correct, I call on Mr. Akin to “man up” and say what he means and not toy with the American people on this very serious issue.

    • Don_B1

      Good luck in getting ANY Republican to “man up” and say what they REALLY mean, on social issues or economic ones. [Except when they make a "gaff."]

  • http://www.facebook.com/notstevelyon Steve Lyon

    I think this guy Akin is a complete ass hole that has no business in public office, but there was an article in Slate recently that pointed out research that suggests that there may actually be some amount of truth in the notion that impregnation by an unfamiliar partner is more likely to result in miscarriage:

    “Gallup has shown that women are more likely to develop preeclampsia—and
    thus have a higher infant mortality risk—in pregnancies resulting from
    unfamiliar semen. Historically, these would have included rape and
    “dishonest mating strategies” (tactics in which the man lies to the
    woman about his long-term intentions just to get into her pants) as well
    as unplanned conception occurring in a new, still-fragile relationship.”

    http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/07/morning_sickness_can_more_sex_help_.3.html

    • BHA_in_Vermont

      Preeclampsia shows up late in the 2nd or early in the 3rd trimester. It isn’t a “body blocking unwanted pregnancy” thing. It is a late term miscarriage thing. Thus it is not relevent to Mr. Akin’s bizarre belief that the victim of a rape can prevent pregnancy if the rape was “legitimate”.

    • margbi

      Does this imply that if a pregnancy does result, by definition, it couldn’t have been rape? I can’t believe that even Republicans could believe such nonsense.

    • keltcrusader

      This article is total baloney! The pregnancy rate is approximately the same whether it is consensual sex and rape victims: @ 5%. The female body cannot do anything to “shut down” impregnation just because it has been violated. Do people even take basic Biology anymore? 

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Orlando-A-Williams/1601212941 Orlando A. Williams

        keltcrusader: do you have a reference for that? One of my knee-jerk reactions to that jerk’s comments was that pregnancy rate from rape was probably the same as any non-planned pregnancy.

  • Gregg Smith

    Hmm, I figured Joe Biden’s race baiting would have been a  more pertinent show. 

    • Acnestes

       No doubt Fox Nation would agree with you.

  • AC

    what a dumb-dumb

    • Don_B1

      The thing is that he is NOT alone. GWB appointed one of the believers in this disgusting idea to the federal bench. Just think how justice is being dispensed there.

  • LinRP

    -The Blunt Amendment

    -Transvaginal Ultrasound

    -29 bills restricting reproductive rights

    “Rape’ Doesn’t Cause Pregnancy”

    Whoa. Just whoa. Any woman who votes Republican must be out of her mind.

  • Mouse_2012

    Sad people believe crap like that

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      Pile-on time: What’s really sad is that this guy advanced to the point of being Missouri’s GOP’s pick on the ballot for Senate while holding these views.

      This is not something out of left field for him.

  • PaulfromHydeParkMA

    Hi Tom - You just said you’re talking to “top Republican Thinkers” today. Isn’t that an oxymoron at this point? Abominable…it takes something like Akin imploding to get the RNC to distance themselves from the Anti-Woman agenda of the party platform. Astounding, stupid and sad that America has to have this conversation in 2012. I’ll be listening as I do most days because your show is one of the best on air. THanks for being there. All Best, Paul Levinson (your former colleague, from Hyde Park, MA)

    • Prairie_W

      You are exactly right on this.  I’d just add that this is deliberate ignorance, ignorance that’s celebrated and nourished within the Republican party.  Some really don’t know.  Others — smarter and better informed — wallow in professing to know nothing as a kind of rebellion against a) a world that’s changing too fast for them, and b) liberals who always seem to take pride in education and who apparently embrace change.  Religion, in this context, becomes nothing more nor less than a hidy-hole.

      • Mike_Card

        Check the Facebook posting by Rich Collier.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Incredible.  An entire show on this nut job?

    This is like doing an entire show on Anthony Weiner.
     

    • BHA_in_Vermont

       I agree. More of a Friday “week in Review” topic.

      • J__o__h__n

        I don’t.  The Republican war on reproductive rights is an important topic. 

      • Don_B1

        You could be correct but ONLY if they limit the discussion to Akin.

        But he is only a “canary in the coal mine.” The show MUST show that a controlling segment of the Republican Party DOES believe in just this excrement. They use anything to further their cause. But most of them are smart enough to realize that most Americans do not believe it.

        But as pointed out above, 29 bills in the House of Representatives and countless others in Republican controlled state houses over the last two years (since the “Class of 2010 took office) have not generated much opposition, flying under the MSM radar, as is easily done with the incompetent MSM today, has convinced them they can push even more openly for this. All of a sudden America will wake up in a country they don’t recognize.

    • Mike_Card

      And whose body was affected, besides Weiner’s?

  • William

    Ted Kennedy never resigned. Bill Clinton never resigned. JFK, well, the press covered for him for nearly 30 years before his true behavior towards women was revealed. I don’t agree with what  Akin said, but people make mistakes when speaking sometimes and he apologized. Move on.

    • Mike_Card

      Well, don’t stop there–you’ve only gone back 50 years!  What about Truman not apologizing for the A-bomb or Wilson for dying in office without apologizing for The Great War?  If you’re nursing your grudges to protect a whack-doodle from Missouri, use them all!

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

         Why would Truman or Wilson have to apologize for those?

        • Mike_Card

          My point, exactly.  Why would the Kennedys or Clinton resign?

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

             Ted Kennedy was responsible for the death of someone.  Clinton lied, but that’s a lesser offense.

          • Mike_Card

            Clinton…well, show me a politician who doesn’t lie and hasn’t continued to do so.

            Teddy is more of a problem, I’ll agree.  To invoke your assessment elsewhere on this thread, it was really up to his constituency–isn’t that how it works, in the end?

            Akin’s mistake was in speaking his mind, then only apologizing for his word selection, rather than for wandering into an area of science in which he clearly has no cognizance. 

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            In Kennedy’s case, prison would have been the more appropriate answer, likely.

          • Mike_Card

            But neither you nor I were judges.

          • renata2011

            Mitt Romney was also the driver in a fatal car accident in France while he was on LDS mission.  He was driving someone else’s car for the first time on an unfamiliar road.  He claimed the car he hit was driving erratically and that the driver was drunk.  The driver, a priest whose mother was his passenger, was briefly hospitalized.  The police report said neither drugs nor alcohol played a part in the accident.  Romney also said a truck driver who was a witness said it was the other car’s fault.  Neither the police nor the witnesses to the accident spoke to or saw any truck driver.  Romney said he was in a coma for several days following the accident; the newspaper reports for the woman who was killed said Romney was not seriously injured.  

            Both Kennedy and Romney were young men at the time or the accidents.  Kennedy made some bad decisions but never denied his responsibility for the event.  Romney, on the other hand, denied responsibility and tried to blame an innocent person.  Whenever he has been asked about the incident he claims to not recall the details.

    • Don_B1

      I guess you mean the only “mistake” Akin made was in bringing up the fertilization aspect? That is a crucial way the Anti-Abortionists convince themselves that denying the choice of abortion to a raped woman is justified because she must have wanted it.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      “Go along, folks. Nothin to see here.”

      In the face of all the crapstorms foisted on us by the right wing propaganda media, your tone is cute.

  • vito33

    The American Christian Taliban. Don’t like the plutocracy we’re living in right now? Try the medieval theocracy these monsters want to enact.

  • JGC

    The gaffetastic Todd Akin did make an apology for his remarks, saying they were “ill-conceived”.   Bet he wished there was a morning after pill for foot-in-mouth disease… 

    • J__o__h__n

      Akin is a legitimate moron. 

    • BHA_in_Vermont

        Apologized but didn’t retract. He didn’t say “WHOA, who put that
      obviously stupid and factually incorrect ‘fact’ in my mouth?” For all he
      has said, he presumably still believes that a woman can prevent herself
      from getting pregnant if she was “legitimately” raped.

  • Yar

    Joe Biden said  “They will put y’all back in chains.” 
    Todd Akin is only defining the chains in Joe Biden’s gaffe.  Both parties say they want adult conversations, yet those speeches are full of innuendo, euphemism, and truth is avoided at all costs. 
    Todd Akin is being told to take one for the team and step aside.  This is the same team that won’t fund testing thousands of rape kits sitting in evidence rooms across the country. The team that won’t pass an equal rights amendment. The same team that campaigns to take away a woman’s right to chose, if she should decide to end a pregnancy. I am sick of team politics.  I want Representatives and Senators that represent all people.  It is time to clean house, put 50 women in the Senate.  Lisa Murkowski proved it can be done with the stroke of many pens.  Party politics has taken away the power of individuals in congress, we need to get the money out and the people in.It has been reported that 5,000 to 10,000 victims become pregnant from the assaulting rape and about 5 percent of rapes result in pregnancy.  The Big News story is the number of rapes that continue to occur in the USA and how little the men in congress are doing about it. Vote for a change in political power, vote for women.  Yes, they can mess up too, but I doubt they will make a bigger mess than our current crop of legislators.

  • JGC

    There are currently intense back room negotiations going on between Akin and the RYAN/romney team.  Romney, Ryan and Rove are putting pressure on Akin to withdraw from the senate race today; in return, they promise Akin the top job in Health and Human Services in the RYAN/romney/rove administration…

    • vito33

      HA! Wouldn’t surprise me though.

  • vito33

    Women need to turn this vicious speech around on their would-be oppressors.

    Isn’t a vasectomy a brutal assault against god? Every sperm is sacred, isn’t it? A man should have to attend intensive counseling and be subjected to an invasive ultrasound during which he can contemplate the beauty of his god-designed vas deferens before he submits to a procedure like that.

    If a man has to take Viagra, he is shaking his fist in the face of god who has clearly told them that He doesn’t want them having sex anymore! 

  • SKBoston

    CNN is reporting that the Republican Platform contains a Constitutional Amendment to Outlaw Abortion, with no exceptions for rape or incest.

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/report-gop-platform-again-call-abortion-ban-084514837.html

    This whole presidental race is getting so disturbing.

    • vito33

      VP hopeful Paul Ryan tried to include the term “Forcible Rape” in an anti-abortion bill… As if there was any other kind. Ryan and Akin are soul bros.

      • OnpointListener

        They are trying to distinguish forcible rape from statutory rape so that teens will not be able to find a “loophole”.

        • vito33

          And that, my friend, is BS. You’ve been watching too much FoxNews.

          • OnpointListener

            Vito, I think you misunderstood me because I did not make my point clearly.  

            The law presumes that persons under a certain age cannot legally consent to sex.  Therefore, when an underage person has sex with an adult, the adult may be charged with “statutory rape”.

            From a legal dictionary:

            “Statutory rape is different from other types of rape in that force and lack of consent are not necessary for conviction”.

            The Republicans want to make sure that exceptions to abortion restrictions must be for “forcible” rape only and that a person who has been statutorily raped will not be able to avail themselves of exceptions for rape victims. 

          • vito33

            Maybe I didn’t read closely enough. You’re absolutely right.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            With the snark-quotes around “loophole”, I thought OPL was relaying the right’s opinion, rather than agreeing with it or stating it as their own.

        • Acnestes

          Yeah, because God knows we need as many unready, unwilling, unwed teenage mothers as we can get, by any possible means.

  • MadMarkTheCodeWarrior

    Akin is yet another example of idiotological blindness,  blinded by ideology, they latch on to anything that supports their position, regardless of its legitimacy or related issues.

    In the same news cycle, our congressional Republican skinny dipping delegation has embarrassed the US and succeeded in reinforcing foreigners’ opinions of Americans: pompous, tactless, corrupt, hypocrites: I guarantee that any rebukes they may receive for their shameless behavior will not temper their holier-than-though attitudes that they will assume delivering their sermons on the stump in this election season.

    The Republican party has lost discipline: it has no shame, no outrage and no ethics: just what it feigns to win the votes of the weary, desperate, fearful souls looking for hope in these hard economic times. They will back almost anyone that they think can win. The Republican party has lost any legitimacy as representatives of THE PEOPLE: They have one imperative: represent the interests of their millionaire, billionaire and corporate stock holders at any cost. No morality, no ethics, just self interest for power and enrichment: what ever it takes to ‘win’.

    • Andy Addleman


      The Republican party has lost discipline: it has no shame, no outrage and no ethics: just what it feigns to win the votes of the weary, desperate, fearful souls looking for hope in these hard economic times.”

      So the Democrats are the saviors of “THE PEOPLE”?  Both parties are worthless patsies for the special interest groups. Republicans simply rely on the christian base for votes. Hence the ignorance with anything science related. 

  • J__o__h__n

    I don’t see what the outrage is about as Rep. Akin’s position on abortion for rape victims differs little from many Republicans.  His distinction of “legitimate rape” was just a poor word choice for “forcible rape’ which many Republicans use to differentiate between rape victims and their right to an abortion.  Even worse are Republicans who don’t allow abortions for any rape victims.  Until yesterday Paul Ryan was one of those.  Now he has flip-flopped on that.  No word on if he still supports fetal personhood.  Mitt Romney claims he supports the rights of rape victims to have an abortion but anyone who expects that he won’t continue drifting to the right is as dumb as Rep. Akin. 

    • BHA_in_Vermont

       I don’t think the outrage is related to the anti abortion stand of Mr. Akin or the Republican party in general.

      It is his claim that women who are raped don’t need access to abortions anyway because their body won’t let them get pregnant if they were ‘legitimately’ (or ‘forcibly’ if that was the intent of his words) raped. Next he’ll tell us that if they DO get pregnant, it is because they wanted, deep in their soul, to have sex with the assailant so it wasn’t a ‘legitimate’ (or ‘forcible’) rape.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      First, I also have no confidence on Mitt’s ability to stand up to his “friends”, on this issue or hardly any other.

      But my fascination is that the GOP would love to tell us what a “forcible rape” is, and base a woman’s healthcare on that. We’re approaching some crazee territory w.r.t. a woman’s agency and consent.

      This is a can of worms he’s opened up. Time to go fishing with it.

      • keltcrusader

        TF says: “First, I also have no confidence on Mitt’s ability to stand up to his “friends”, on this issue or hardly any other.”I seem to remember Grover Norquist saying something to the effect that the Republican party needed a President who would just sign off on the legislation they passed – nothing else, just a hand with a pen in it. Looks like they got their pick with the gutless wonder, panderer extraordinaire Mitt Romney.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

          I forget where, but I’ve read that bit also. Good quote.

          “Just a hand with a pen in it”! Gawd, what self-debasement one would need to crawl up and kiss Grover’s ring.

  • BHA_in_Vermont

    Disqus again didn’t attach to the post to which I replied.

  • BHA_in_Vermont

    And again

  • AC

    hmmmmm…the fertility industry is annually around $2+ billion, but now I know the whole thing must really the woman’s fault for secretly hating her husband and shutting the whole thing down…..thanks, Rep Akin, biology was so confusing before you!!

  • Michiganjf

    Republican Todd Akin is on the House Science Commitee!!!!

     This is the kind of moron Republicans would have making health decisions for women in America (not to mention, FOR ALL OF US)!!!!!!!

     The Republican leadership in the House has put this idiot who thinks women can’t be impregnated by rape ON THE HOUSE COMMITEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE AND TECHNOLOGY????!!!

     … AND WHAT IN THE WORLD IS “LEGITIMATE RAPE?”

      This is the future conservatives would give to America… Clueless morons making decisions about the direction of science in our country!!!!!

    Just look up The Family Research Council!!! They STILL back Akin and have actually TRIED TO DEFEND HIS STATEMENT!!

     People, WAKE UP!!!

     Republicans are turning America into a backward, third world country!!!!

    • vito33

      The American Taliban.

    • John_in_Amherst

       Similar ignorance dominates the GOP views on the science of climate change. 

  • Joseph_Wisconsin

    Yes, Akin also would prohibit the use of the “morning after pill” even in case of rape. Apparently he believes while rape may be bad, and apparently “real rapes” don’t result in pregnancy anyway, if a woman becomes pregnant after being raped she should look on the unwanted child as a wonderful gift. Yes I can see that . . .

    Lucy: “Why Mary what a beautiful child.”
    Mary: “Yes, I did not want a child at the time, I actually was hoping to complete college before even thinking about marriage or children.”
    Lucy: “Oh, so who is the father?”
    Mary: “Oh, just the man that raped me. I was upset at first for sure, but now every time I look at my child I think of the man that raped me and the wonderful gift he gave me. I am also so glad that  the Republicans are so intent on cutting foodstamps and Medicaid.  True these are  really the only way my child and I can get by on my wages from Wal-Mart, but they are right.  I really don’t want to shirk my personal responsibility and allow junior and me to become a burden on society.”

    Where are the Teapublicans coming up with these candidates? It is like they are now running zombies from the 17th Century. Todd Aiken over three-hundred years dead, but now out of the grave to be your new Republican Senator from Missouri. What do you need? “Brains.” How will you get it? “Brains.”

    That and don’t get the idea that Akin is some sort of outlier in the Republican Party.  Due to the current outrage Romney and Ryan are for the moment distancing themselves from Akin, but Ryan was very close to Akin when the two co-authored a House bill that would have redefined rape as “forcible” and the news out today is that the Republican Party platform for 2012 will call for a Constitutional Amendment banning abortions.  

    • BHA_in_Vermont

       “Where are the Teapublicans coming up with these candidates?”

      Akin far predates the Tea Party. If he quits the race today, THEN you can ask the question of the person chosen to replace him.

  • MrNutso

    The use of the word “legitimate” is a play by those including  Vice-Presidential Nominee in waiting Paul Ryan who wish to further restrict abortion rights.  They assert that the  rape exception for abortions will allow women to falsely claim rape as a means of getting an abortion.

    • BHA_in_Vermont

       Which is amazing considering the percentage of legitimate, i.e. actual, rapes that are unreported.

  • TomK_in_Boston

    This is a case of “gaffe” meaning you say what you really think. Akin let us briefly see the far right mind without the smoke and spin. It’s as if Etchasketch said “my economic plan is to grab more for me and my buddies” without the trickle down fig leaf. Shame on us if these bozos get any votes.

  • MrNutso

    BTW, this kind of bullsh!t has been going on a long time.  In 1988 PA Republican House member Stephen Freind made a simlar assertion.  It came back to bite him in the @$$ when he ran against Arlen Specter in 1992.

    • Brandstad

      Please name the party of the only president to be repeatedly accused of rape? 

      How many people in his party distanced themselves from him? 

      While Akin is an idiot, at least he isn’t an accused rapist like one of our beloved presidents!

      • Mouse_2012

        Please explain why you think Akin is an idiot? did you always think so or until now?

      • jefe68

        Are you really this thick?

  • Mike_Card

    I hope we’re not going to have another show like the “debates” between the creationists and the biology scientists.  This moron Akin comes from the land of people with Rice Krispies where their brains ought to be.  (No offense to Rice Krispies.)

  • Brandstad

    Is this really the most important topic NPR can find today?

    OMG that is just another example of how out of touch this group can be.

    • Acnestes

       So go over to Fox Nation.  You’ll fit right in.

    • John_in_Amherst

      Ya, why all the fuss over a topic that combines several key aspects of the campaign 2012, like women’s rights, healthcare and the hard right lurch of the GOP under the influence of the Teabaggers and Bible pounders?

    • jefe68

      It’s important to women. By the way they make up about half of the voting population. Is this still not an important issue?

      This group? Man are you a piece of work.

  • Mouse_2012

    Anyone see Akin’s new Ad?

  • Mouse_2012

    Bran what’s your views on Akin?

  • http://www.facebook.com/kyle.rose Kyle Rose

    I guess I’m happy that more people are beginning to recognize that lawmakers have a special brand of ignorance, but I suspect this is mostly motivated by Team Blue glee at any way to attack Team Red: in other words, the real lesson of this incident that politicians are power-hungry demagogues either disconnected from reality (Biden’s rantings?) or disingenuous (Hillary running from her plane under fire? Elizabeth Warren’s “native American heritage”?) will be lost.

  • Mouse_2012

    Agreed,

    I bet $$ that the media wll find away to spin this. It already started on Fox News(I know I know it’s a shocker)

  • Mouse_2012

    this was to tom from boston disq keeps moving my post

  • TribalGuitars

    The sad thing is that the people that back him will justify his words.  How do you misspeak “legitimate rape”?   Is there a lesser rape?  That’s as bad as Whoopi Goldberg’s “It wasn’t ‘rape’ rape.”

    • Brandstad

      You should ask Bill Clinton.  I hear he is well acquainted with what is and isn’t rape.

      • John_in_Amherst

         getting pretty desperate to divert the conversation, aren’t you?

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

          My grandpa had a nugget of advice for people like Brandstad. “Quit while you’re behind.”

      • jefe68

        Next you’ll be bringing up baseball history.

    • Ludwig_von_Mieseskeit

      My guess is that by ‘legitimate’ rape he meanthe woman isn’t lying’—women are human, so it is certainly possible for them to lie about rape…but to a man of Akin’s cast of mind, women routinely lie about it, I mean if they’re so vile as to actually have sex without his permission, what better can you expect from them?

      Next: how the wiles of altar boys entrap innocent priests.

  • Brandstad

    Isn’t it funny that the democrat party wants freedom of choice unless that choice has anything to do with a medical decisions, AKA Obamacare!

    • Mouse_2012

      Hey Bran what’s your views on Akin?

    • John_in_Amherst

      Before the ACA, the 38-44 million people without insurance coverage had No choices at all.

    • BHA_in_Vermont

       “Obamacare” has nothing to do with directing, controlling or limiting medical choices and decisions.

      The FOR PROFIT insurance model is ALL about directing, controlling or limiting medical choices and decisions by deciding what they will and will not pay for.

    • Ludwig_von_Mieseskeit

      No, we also want to restrict your freedom to pay starvation wages, pressure your workers to work in life-threatening conditions, deceptively market cancer-sticks, rape your wife….

      Sorry to cut in on your pleasures like that, we’re just not permissive enough.

    • jefe68

      How low can a person go to forward their regressive ideology, apparently pretty low.

  • Yar

    Wouldn’t be hypocritical for Todd Akin to abort his Senatorial campaign even if he determines that it will die in defeat on November 6th.  No, Todd, carry your burden to term.

    • Mouse_2012

      lol,

      Seems he wants to shirk his personal responablitity

    • Ellen Dibble

      I guess he needs to apologize to the Republican party for “conceiving” this burden.  They apparently hadn’t intended this particular byproduct of selecting him.  How is it he couldn’t automatically abort this using his own unconscious biological forces?

  • TribalGuitars

     Is there non-forcible rape?  

    • BHA_in_Vermont

       statutory

      • TribalGuitars

         True.  But so much of that is people trying to deny that underage teens aren’t sexual beings, and and underage guy dating an underage girl, who was underage one day and not the next is suddenly a “child molester”.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

          There are states with “Romeo and Juliet” laws which address that to some extent. I’m not saying any of them are perfect laws, but it’s a start.

        • Don_B1

          There are statistics which show that half or more of pregnant single teenagers were impregnated by “older men.”

          Those “older men” are all too often the teenager’s mother’s boyfriend. Who thinks that was not a “forced rape”? Now that the teenager’s emotional stability is on edge, she is going to have to bring a pregnancy to term?

  • Ellen Dibble

    There are statistics that say a vast majority of fertilized ova never implant but are sloughed off, so I don’t understand how that happens when a woman is desperately trying to get pregnant.  Is she subconsciously having doubts?
        Also, if I’m having sex with someone I love but don’t want to get pregnant, can my body switch off the connection of sperm and ovum?  If so, How.  People want to know.

  • OnpointListener

    The only difference between the Akin and Ryan platforms is that Akin thinks a woman can “shut it down”.

    Ryan sponsored “conception” legislation that would give constitutional protections to a fertilized egg.

    Do Ryan and Akin know that somewhere between 60 and 80 percent of fertilized eggs never implant and about 30 percent of those are eventually miscarried.

    By the way, “conception” is a Latin term that refers to the time at which the egg actually attaches to the womb, and not at fertilization.

    Ryan is a hypocrite.

    R & R want Akin OUT, not because his platform is different, only because people understand what a screwball he is and he will probably lose.

  • Matt Wade

    I’m just gonna leave this here:

    “The Republican Party is once again set to enshrine into its official platform support for “a human life amendment” to the Constitution that would outlaw abortion without making explicit exemptions for rape or incest, according to draft language of the platform obtained exclusively by CNN late Monday.”Faithful to the ‘self-evident’ truths enshrined in the Declaration of Independence, we assert the sanctity of human life and affirm that the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed,” the draft platform declares. “We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and endorse legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protections apply to unborn children.”Holy crap.http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/20/first-on-cnn-gop-prepares-tough-anti-abortion-platform/ 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1408098372 Mari McAvenia

    Thanks for asking us women what we think about this, Tom.
    I, for one, think Akin should be run out of town on a rail and deposited in a mean, dark place where he is highly likely to be raped. After he endures the assault (if he can) then & only then will he qualify as an expert on the topic.

  • skeptic150

    IMO, this incident highlights the exact thought process of God’s Oppressive Party regarding reproductive rights and abortion.
    Once again, if their god exists, it is responsible for more spontaneous abortions/miscarriages than any human.  And, the likelihood of death from carrying a pregnancy to term and delivery is still greater than the risk of death from an elective abortion – women should have the right to decide if they want to take the risk of pregnancy, not men guided by religion/Bronze Age mythology and scientific illiteracy. 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

    “misspoke” – the universal etch-a-sketch.

    The only “mispeaking” he did was letting his mouth say what his brain told it to.

  • Ludwig_von_Mieseskeit

    If you really believe a zygote, blastocyst,gastrocyst, fœtus, and all embryos to be full human beings with full human rights, how can you support a rape exception?

    I think the root of the problem is that a large number of the anti-abortion side don’t really believe what they say they do, not fully, and in the face of the barbarity of forcing a woman to either suffer a pregnancy with her victimiser’s child or commit suicide, they recoil from the implications of their beliefs.

    Of course, there are also those who don’t really believe in pre-birth personhood, or basically don’t care, but firmly believe that anyone enjoying themselves more than they must be punished in this so-just world, and that goes double for women ‘on strike against God’ by leavimg the kitchen and being otherwise assertive.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      Yep. They just want it to go away. The ways to stigmatize it are legion, starting with “slut shaming” and addressed at length in many other places.

      But at the end of the progression of making abortion (and also contraception) illegal, things have to be crimes. And when someone asks one of them, “Who would you throw in jail”, all one gets in return are blank stares.

      • keltcrusader

        I saw a video of this – people said abortion should be illegal, and if it was, they didn’t think women should go to jail or be subject to any type of punishment from breaking “the law”. They basically couldn’t answer the question. Someone said ‘ I never thought about that.”

  • NewtonWhale

    Here are some of Akin’s greatest hits.
    Student LoansIn April, Akin cited a law Democrats passed in 2010 that saves billions of dollars by preventing private banks from profiting, risk free, on federally backed student loans as an example of the notion that “America has got the equivalent of stage three cancer of socialism, because the federal government is tampering in all kind of stuff it has no business tampering in.”When offered the chance to clarify, he declined, saying “I called a spade a spade.”Social SecurityDuring a CSPAN appearance on March 2011, Akin raised strong objections to one of the nation’s most popular federal support programs. “Social Security, through the years, for many many people, has been a terrible investment. It’s really a tax is all it is. Social Security is a tax. The government is taking the tax — there’s more money coming in than going out — and we spend it. That’s not responsible. I don’t like it. I didn’t design Social Security. It was — it actually came from Bismark. FDR put it in place.”First AmendmentIn June 2011, Akin told Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, that “the heart of liberalism really is a hatred for God and a belief that government should replace God.”Marital RapeIn 1991, as a state legislator, Akin questioned whether anti-marital rape legislation might be used “in a real messy divorce as a tool and a legal weapon to beat up on the husband.” He ultimately voted for the bill.Civil and Voting RightsAkin recently claimed that elections “historically have always been a state thing.” Without expressing opposition to the Civil Rights Act and other federal protections for ethnic minorities, Akin noted “I think we’ve come a very long way from those days,” adding, “I think we need to make sure that everybody has a right to vote — once,” a transparent nod to the inaccurate notion that voter impersonation fraud is a persistent problem that requires legal restrictions on voting.School LunchesIn 2010, he was one of 13 to vote against expressing support for the goals and ideals of the National School Lunch Program.Missing And Exploited ChildrenIn 2003, he and 13 other Republicans voted against a five year reauthorization of a law that provides support for missing and exploited children.In 2005, he was one of 52 congressmen to oppose legislation to create a national sex offender registry, compel convicted sex offenders to register, and impose mandatory sentences for convicted child molesters.Anti-Abortion ViolenceWhen he first ran for Congress in 2000 he fell under scrutiny for writing a 1995 letter of support to the 1st Missouri Volunteers — a fringe, anti-abortion private militia.http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/todd-akins-greatest-hits.php 

  • Coastghost

    For another US Senate candidate Chappaquiddick was an entirely forgivable (and a repeatably forgivable) faux pas.

    • jefe68

      Ted Kennedy is no longer alive. Petty does not even begin to describe your comment.

      • Coastghost

        Yet, “petty” is exactly where you do begin when characterizing my comment. I fully concede to the accuracy and legitimacy of your characterization, but only as long as you consent to characterize the Akin teapot tempest accordingly.

        • Mike_Card

          Forty-three years ago?  Really?  That’s a real powerful argument you got there, Sparky.  Maybe you’ll drag up FDR’s swing at packing the Supreme Court next?  Get a f**king life and join the 3rd millennium.

  • nwittstruck

    Akin’s comments were not simply mispoken.  Misspeaking is not pronouncing a word properly.  Legitimate rape, forceable rape, all of it is rape.  Period.  I feel that Akin’s comments represent his complete ignorance of rape, complete ignorance of abortion and women’s rights.  It scares me to death that there are people, particularly powerful men, who still feel this way about women.

  • Common_Sense3

    The GOP is actively trying to kick this guy out of the race for his stupid, vile comments.  And they’re right to do it.  But Tom did you do a show when Biden made his many racist remarks?  More importantly, WHY DID THE DEMOCRATS NOMINATE HIM FOR VICE PRESIDENT after making these comments?  He called Obama the first african  american who is bright and clean and
     articulate?  Why the double standard?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgIFV7jXBFQ 

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Politics is the art of the double standard.

    • Don_B1

      Because Obama obviously forgave him.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    He misspoke.  The voters of Missouri are free to decide whether they agree or disagree with his positions, but the matter under question here has been answered.  Move along.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/HEWE6BY7YYSNPALXNSXUWKBCJA S. C-ya

    The mistake he made was in the “words” and not in his “heart”. ???

    He is clearly saying that he simply didnt express himself well but still believes what he said strongly. And i think he is being honest. it is the other republicans who are calling for him to withdraw that are being dishonest. They support the same twisted policies that this mans ignorance has led him too.

    Wake up everyone, Akin is a Tea Party Republican, not some outlier. The Tea party runs the GOP now and this is how they think!!

  • MrsWDarcy

    What Rep. Todd Akins meant was perfectly clear: that some cases of rape are consensual, thereby making the claim of the victim, as well as the status of her offspring, illegitimate. According to Mr. Akins’s logic, “legitimate” rape (where the victim’s claim is true), rarely if ever results in pregnancy.
    For some right-wing Americans, this assumption is  commonplace, and Rep Akin’s “mis-statement” on a Missouri talk-show last Sunday was unremarkable — for him. Now, I don’t think this Tea-Bagger’s ignorance is necessarily representative of the Republican Party, but there is something inherent in Mr. Akin’s misunderstanding about rape that may be instructive to many of us left scratching our heads. This Missourian’s whacky idea about rape appears to underlie American Fundamentalist beliefs: that people, however innocent they may seem, get what they deserve in this just, God-governed world of ours. Therefore, victims of rape must somehow be guilty, and if in the rare case that they are not, God will certainly not allow a baby to be the result.
    After all, a baby that is the result of an unconscionable, violent act poses a difficult paradox for Right-to-Lifers: How can something so sacred as the God-created miracle of life be the outcome of a heinous crime? And, how can it be that what is in the best interest of an unborn innocent not inevitably and without exception be in the best interest of the female who carries the fetus?
    However intolerant we may be about the paradoxes of life, however adamantly we are that this must be the best of all possible worlds, however righteously wrapped in virtue and religion, the primitive male fantasy that some women want to be raped – this notion has no place in the mind-set of any “legitimate” member of the U.S. Congress, regardless of that legislator’s apparent piety and heartfelt sincerity.

  • Ellen Dibble

    Does the Ryan camp consider rape as a weapon of war where one ethnicity perpetrates their ethnic genes upon their enemies to propagate their kind?  I don’t understand it, but we hear about that as a terror tactic.  

  • TribalGuitars

    This guy said he talked to doctors. What doctors? 

    This is just another case of Republicans denying fact and science to advance their agenda and deliberately keep people ignorant.

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Ah.  Now we know why Tom wanted this show.

    He is trying to tie Paul Ryan to Akin.

    It took 18 minutes.
     

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      They’re already tied to each other. See all the stuff they co-authored.

    • adks12020

      Well Ryan and Aiken did co-sponsor legislation related to personhood and abortion.  I’d say they are already tied.

    • MrNutso

      I think they tied themselves together.

      • WorriedfortheCountry

         I was wondering why Tom would waste an hour on this nut job.  Now I know.

        • jefe68

          Don’t like it? Don’t’ listen.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1408098372 Mari McAvenia

      The two ARE bound tightly together in the far-right wing of the Republican Party. Pretending that they are not similar in ideology is just plain cowardly & dumb. Are you a little bit uncomfortable with the truth, “Worried”, or simply worried about safely protecting your own political biases? Hard to tell. I’m leaning towards the latter explanation.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/SVJTN4SYFGRPSACHUINPXGVFUM david

       I had heard that both Akin and Ryan had cosponsored a bill trying to redefine the definition of rape – a topic that is being discussed on the show as I started typing this reply. I think that this link to Ryan is important to be aware of in considering him as part of the Republican ticket.

  • Matt Wade

    He didn’t misspeak, he mistakenly told the truth about the horrible things he believes. Republicans can only win elections if they stick to their lies and obfuscate their true positions. He let the horse out of the barn and will probably lose now, thank jebus.

    • Don_B1

      Democrats can hope (and must work hard to get him defeated) but it is not certain.

  • http://www.facebook.com/peter.newton.3956 Peter Newton

    I really have one question: WHERE did ALL of this contraception debate come from? Where was this issue festering that it irrupted in this election year? I did not realize it was such an issue with so many. What is the root of this ridiculous battle? I am sort of lost as to the complete collapse of common sense in the country for simple political victories at any cost. “The Prince” blushes in mediocrity. 

    • Andy Addleman

      It’s called the christian right. Since the bible is obviously the greatest compendium of scientific knowledge, global warming and contraception HAVE to be wrong. 

      amiright

    • J__o__h__n

      The teabaggers made it a priority.  There was a record number of anti choice legislation after they were elected. 

    • Don_B1

      The social conservatives used the frustration over the slow economic recovery in 2010 to elect legislators at ALL levels who have been pushing their agenda since taking office in 2011.

      House Bill 3 was anti abortion. More than 25 others have been passed even though they knew they would die in the Senate.

      All the states that have Republican governors and both legislative bodies in Republican control have been passing anti-abortion laws that are unconstitutional on their face, but with the hope that judges appointed by Bush during his administration will not overturn them so they will get to the Supreme Court.

      They have also been passing voter suppression bills to keep a lot of Democrats from being able to vote this year. Thus they will be able to maintain their control in spite of some people “waking up.”

  • AC

    it just struck me that maybe he’s been reading 50 shades….

  • AC

    it just struck me that maybe he’s been reading 50 shades….

  • Ellen Dibble

    I think you have to ask the people of Missouri what Todd Akin meant.  Maybe it’s the male ego and its idea of superiority that Akin is representing.  Is there a lot of unemployment in Missouri?

  • http://twitter.com/Buson17 Bruce Pfeiffer, Jr

    “red herring,” “elephant in the room,” whatever you call it, legitimate vs. forcible is hardly the gaff.  “women can just sort of shut that whole thing down.” is the real absurdity

    • Don_B1

      But it is the reason for putting out that kind of statement that is really despicable. The “Pro Life” people want to convince people that the women who got pregnant as a result of a rape to have to bring the pregnancy to term because everyone should think that the woman “wanted” the sex and the pregnancy is God’s punishment.

  • OnpointListener

    Tom asks where does this “forcible” language come from:

    The Republicans want to make sure that exceptions to abortion restrictions must be for “forcible” rape only and that a person who has been statutorily raped will not be able to avail themselves of exceptions for rape victims.  The law presumes that persons under a certain age cannot legally consent to sex.  Therefore, when an underage person has sex with an adult, the adult may be charged with “statutory rape”.From a legal dictionary:”Statutory rape is different from other types of rape in that force and lack of consent are not necessary for conviction”.Sorry for repeating much of a prior post.

    • Don_B1

      Note that the term statutory makes the prosecutors’ job easier but does NOT mean that the rape was not by force.

  • Naomi_in_VT

    TOM: During this conversation, PLEASE put quotations around or use the term “so-called ‘LEGITIMATE’ Rape” otherwise by repeating the term YOU are legitimizing it!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

    The Republican party took no time throwing him under the bus. There would have have been a very different spin if Romney or Ryan had said it.

    • Matt Wade

      Ryan believes the exact same thing as Akin. He’s just smart enough not to say it in public.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/HEWE6BY7YYSNPALXNSXUWKBCJA S. C-ya

    legitimate rape, illegitimate rape, forcible rape, non-forcible rape? Republicans have a lot of classifications for rape!! The outrage on the right is dishonest. Many of them think the same way which is why they are constantly saying and doing things that show their hand. Akin is not the first!

    Limbaugh calling Sandra F. a slut, Romney and Ryan pledging to get rid of Planned parenthood McConnell and others with their forcible vaginal ultrasounds… Republicans want to make policy based on their ignorance. Akin serves on a science committee!!?!

    This is how they think! Wake up!!

    • WorriedfortheCountry

      Romney and Ryan did not make that pledge.  They are against public funding at a time when we are borrowing 40% of everything we spend.

      • Don_B1

        And if elected their economic policies will guarantee that we have to borrow 60% of every dollar spent, however much that is.

  • Yar

    For republicans it seems life begins at conception and support of that life ends at birth.

  • Coastghost

    Yet, a Mother Jones columnist interviewed yesterday on NPR’s ATC confessed that c. 5% of rape victims ever conceive. Is this statistic reliable? I don’t think I misheard the exchange . . .

  • Michiganjf

    To answer your question, Tom, any intercourse, rape or concensual, between two healthy adult has a 5% chance of resulting in pregnancy… there were 30,000 pregnancies resulting from rape in the last year for which we have statistics.

    Republicans want ignorant fools deciding health and science issues for everyone in our country!

    • Coastghost

      Resulting from heterosexual intercourse, I guess we have to say in the interests of requisite specificity.

      • Michiganjf

        Ha! Good!

  • http://twitter.com/areallycc Margaret

    The realization that Men who Govern in the 21st century have so minimized the act of rape as justification for religious beliefs.
    The rape mentality of these men to me is no different then those who use it as a weapon of Ethnic Cleansing.

  • marketmaster

    Tom Akin sits on the US House of Reps Science and Technology committee. It is frightening in so many ways

    • Matt Wade

      I was just overcome with what Hunter S Thompson calls, “the Fear.” My god.

  • http://www.facebook.com/lisa.a.fontes Lisa Aronson Fontes

    As someone who works with refugees, I can say with absolute certainty that women are forcibly raped and become pregnant as a result ALL THE TIME. Unfortunately, this occurs in refugee camps, in situations of war, along with other kinds of torture, etc.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1205332288 Laurie Beth Brunner

    Flat-out LYING from that caller about rape rarely resulting from pregnancy. In fact, tens of thousands of pregnancies result from rape every year in this country.
    https://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2012/08/20/did-todd-akin-get-his-misinformation-on-rape-and-pregnancy-from-physicians-for-life/ 

    “However, a scientific estimate (i.e. from research) is between 25,000 and 32,000 pregnancies from rape a year in the United States (American Journal Obstetrics and Gynecology 1996 and American Journal of Preventative Medicine 2000)…Just to put those numbers into perspective, about 22,000 women a year in the United States develop ovarian cancer. No one thinks that’s rare. About 32,000 American women get melanoma every year (American Cancer Society, 2012). No one thinks that’s rare either.”

  • dt03044

    I remember Strom Thurmond saying something similar about rape years ago.  He was widely dismissed as senile, but maybe there’s a school of thought about this issue that I was not aware of.   Mr. Akin’s comments brought it into the spotlight.

  • J__o__h__n

    The Republican party wants a morning after pill for the Akin nomination. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=810125719 Julie Christensen

    Akin’s beliefs sound like they could have be made by a Taliban member.  I don’t believe that Akins and his supporters are this ignorant about basic biology.  In fact, I think his attitude shows a view of women as lesser beings than men. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1408098372 Mari McAvenia

      I do believe that these men are intellectually deficient as well as being bigoted & arrogant. However, these dubious “qualities” have enormous appeal to equally ignorant voters who are convinced of their own superiority- by virtue of possessing male genitalia-  above all others.

  • jefe68

    This speaks to the real mindset of the GOP and how it views women, period. They want to de-fund Planned Parenthood and a host of other things that will put woman back into the 19th century.

    I can’t believe what I’m hearing about how biology works here on and that the science is in question on this show. That the question of how women reproduce is even coming up in this context is the height of absurdity and stupidity.
    Rape is rape, period.

    Todd Akin represents the anti-education pro-life zealots who would like to take the nation back into the 18th and 19th centuries. His comments speak to how a huge portion of US citizens think. And this is the real issue.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

    The argument that since there are not a lot of you out there that were raped and got pregnant you’re not worth considering is appalling and disgusting.

  • skeptic150

    I guess all those pregnancies in Africa that resulted from rape where, subsequently, the women were denied abortions by the Catholic church were just figments of their imagination.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Has Akin ever waffled about his positions?  Has he ever obfuscated?  He seems to be clear on what he believes.  Now the voters have to decide whether they agree or disagree.

  • Matt Wade

    Akin is a Tea-hadist, and believes that women are second class citizens and evil temptresses that need to be controlled, lest they use their feminine wiles to seduce men and make them weak.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000504390944 Elizabeth Curtiss

    The concept of “forcible” or “legitimate” rape has to be understood in the context of how abstinence-only creates dishonest language between couples in sexually charged situations. Abstinence-only ethics pressures women, and many men as well, to insist verbally — and perhaps to themselves — that they “do not wish” to engage in sexual intercourse, long after the momentum has been established and the deed has been begun. When a couple has no choice of saying an honest “yes,” any use of the word “no” has lost its meaning.

  • RichSPK

    I don’t want to “out” her, but one of my neighbors has a young daughter born from a gang-rape.  If that’s not “legitimate rape,” I don’t know what is.

  • Markus6

    Some fool says something stupid and now according to this crowd, it’s connected to Ryan, Romney and the entire republican party. Just like how Limbaugh and his crowd connect some liberal nit wit to the democrats. We’re trillions in debt, stuck in another long term mid east war, replaced one broken health care system with another and these are the connections we make.

    Nothing wrong with having this as a topic, but you folks really have lost your perspective.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1205332288 Laurie Beth Brunner

      It’s not just this one fool. He represents a sizable wing of the Republican party who would like to use such views to legislate women’s bodies, health, and rights. I am a woman. As such, he and people like him are a danger to MY body, MY health, and MY rights. I don’t believe that worrying about those things is a failure of my perspective. If you can’t see that the rights and bodily integrity of half of humanity are important, I suggest that WE are not the ones who are lacking perspective.

    • jefe68

      No sir, it is you who blinded by ideology has lost perspective.

  • Ellen Dibble

    What religion is Todd Akin?  What religion is Paul Ryan?  What religion is Mitt Romney?  Just curious.

    • BHA_in_Vermont

      - Ryan is Catholic.
      - I think you know that Romney is Mormon.
      - Wikipedia (yeah, I know the ultimate fact based web site) says Akin is Presbyterian Church of America. Defined (again by wiki) as “an evangelical Protestant Christian denomination in the Reformed tradition”

      • Ellen Dibble

        Well, then those religions should keep those women on the straight and narrow.  Religion has its purviews, in family planning and propagation, in education, in caring for the poor, the deserving poor, and creating a safety net of its own for its adherents.  As for those without that kind of faith community?  As little guidance as possible.  The minimum of regulation and protection.  If they were upstanding, they would “find” religion.  But certain aspects of religion?  Like in what manner you express your love?  They get involved even when it is supposedly extremely private.  Separation of church and state — it reaches new lows.

    • skeptic150

      Why Christian, of course.  And, imo, this is not insignificant.  All the legislation based, ultimately, on theocracy and scientific illiteracy (anti-abortion, In God We Trust, Under God, creationism as science, school vouchers paying for Christian education, abstinence only education, the nonexistent “evolution debate,” etc., etc. stem from a Christian agenda to impose their beliefs on non-Christians and nontheists.  Think about it, and look at the laws being proposed, and occasionally passed, on state and federal levels.

    • DrJoani

      LIP SERVICE religion, all of them!

  • TribalGuitars

    Pregnancy from rape, according to one study, shows that it happens in 5% of rape, which is still 32,000 a year!  Anyone want to ask any of those women who was “legitimately raped”?

    The male guest (dont see his name listed) said that it was “insignificant”. Would he think that his mother, wife, daughter, sister, was “insignificant” if they were pregnant from rape? Would he ask,”Was it legitimate rape?”

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/SVJTN4SYFGRPSACHUINPXGVFUM david

    Does this ‘protective god juice’ only apply to white women (not that there is proof that it does)?
    I ask this because it seems that it may not have been effective for so many others as evidenced by Vietnamese women raped by US soldiers, many descendents of the salves brought to the US and raped by slave owners,… I realize that I am not backing this up with statistical information/studies – but I think my point is made.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000504390944 Elizabeth Curtiss

     Thank you, Lisa. I remember years ago seeing a Vietnamese mother raped by pirates as she fled across the South China Sea. While pregnant, she looked at us with vacant eyes. After giving birth, she held the child as if it was already dead.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000504390944 Elizabeth Curtiss

     He must be the to stamp it out.

  • J__o__h__n

    This isn’t the first time a Republican didn’t let science get in the way of his opinion. 

  • TinaWrites

    So, in Akin’s view, a 15-year-old girl who thinks she is in love with a 44-year-old predator is not eligible for an abortion because their situation is considered “statutory rape”?  

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1408098372 Mari McAvenia

      Something like that. I have interviewed dozens of American women over several decades. All have reported some sort of sexual assault in their histories. I’ve also spoken with many American men. None have ever admitted to acts of sexual aggression against a woman.
      Is one solitary & invisible time-travelling guy running around raping ALL the women who fall prey to sexual assaults? The Republicans would have you believe this fantasy & that all abused women are liars, too.

    • Stephen706

      Not true at all…There is nothing saying she cannot get one if pregnant… unless of course she is looking for Uncle Sam to foot the bill… that is where the parties disagree…

    • TinaWrites

      By the way, I meant to add this to my comment: At the risk of sounding no different than Akin when he said, “a doctor told me”, an M.D./PhD. psychiatrist told me that a significant proportion of young girls/young women with Asperger’s Syndrome tend to be the victims of sexual predators.  I don’t think he was referring to anything like a majority of young females with A.S., just some proportion that tends to remain somewhat constant and therefore is “remarkable”, meaning it should be looked at, attended to.  Another expert, a male with A.S. who has studied A.S. scientifically and who speaks to school groups/community groups about A.S., agreed.  So, enter into this context the people who feel they have the moral high ground on all matters.  

  • JeanBruce

    Akin represents 13th century medical speculation perpetuated in the absence of scientific knowledge. 

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

       Akin is on the Science committee.

      • TinaWrites

        Help us!

    • TinaWrites

      And our young people are dying and suffering major, life-long injuries in the Middle East, fighting to help establish (or impose, depending on your POV) the makings of democracy, underpinned by the Rule of Law rather than by religious belief set into law.  Ought our laws have ethical underpinnings?  Yes!  Ought they be tied to specific religious underpinnings?  I know my answer to that.  

      Many in our armed forces have seen the acid attacks, etc., on women that are punishments for alleged violation of these specific religious beliefs which have become religious law.  Thruout that region, practiced by several completely different religious groups, young brides are ostracized by their husband’s families for bringing shame on his family because she was raped.  I fear that making a distinction between “forcible” and “statutory” rape may run parallel to this.  

  • MadMarkTheCodeWarrior

    Oh my God… you have a professor and director of OBGYN stating the scientific facts and these ideologues refuse to accept the facts. At what point do we call them LIARS and or idiots?

    If they were interviewing for jobs in a corporation, they would be deemed incompetent or ethical liabilities.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       Pay attention.

      I think Akin is a nut job but he admitted he was wrong on the science.

      I don’t believe this show has put forward anyone who disputes the science.

      • jefe68

        Yeah, they just want to control woman’s health.
        This is about regressive ideology that is designed to demean women, period. If you’re going to support this agenda, then you support this mindset.

         

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

    “I think mainstream R’s do not agree with Akins’ comments”, says one of the guests.

    Hey, mainstream Republicans had a chance to disagree with Akins’ comments before he became their standard-bearer for a Senate seat in a swing state.

    They made their bed. Now they get to lie in it from now until Election Day.

    This is Dick Lugar redux. I’m getting tired of hearing, after yet another proverbial car crash, how the backseat drivers of the moderate GOP were saying “Slow down!” to the wingnuts at the wheel.

    • TomK_in_Boston

      They don’t agree because they think he’ll lose. You’re not supposed to say what they really think. Might as well say that their econ plan is to make the rich richer.

    • J__o__h__n

      How come we never hear from the mainstream ones?  Weren’t they passing Ryan off as one?  Other than the two senators from Maine and Scott Brown in his campaign adds, name one. 

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        They’re the “Invisible Boy moderates”.

        He’s the superhero whose power of invisibility worked as long as nobody looked at him. By and large, these R’s are only “bi-curious” when their vote won’t make a difference.

        My original comment was more about voters, taste-makers, money-suppliers, and the RNC than elected officials from other states.

        Oh, and there’s always some scorn earned by the mainstream media who keeps sanding the splinters off the crazee of the GOP.

    • Mouse_2012

      “Now they get to lie ”

      Is what the republicans will do

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

    Would anyone want someone who thinks there is “forcible rape” and other kinds of rape dating their daughter?

  • J__o__h__n

    Does Akin judge rape victims by what they were wearing too in his hierarchy of rape victims? 

    • Ellen Dibble

      Sometimes I wonder if people like Akin ever met a woman who actually really wanted to be intimate.  It does exist. It isn’t all that hard to determine.  Really and truly.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=837687071 Helen Horowitz

    A main source of the belief that a woman raped cannot get pregnant is folk wisdom best expressed in Aristotle’s Masterpiece, available in America since 1741. The belief was that expelling the “egg” was like male ejaculation: thus reaching orgasm is necessary to conception. As a result a woman raped against her will cannot conceive. 

  • JeanBruce

    This rarity is 13th century medical speculation/rationale from a time when the king and the nobility took what they wanted and no one dare object.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      Thirteenth century?

      I’d like to see a doctor say “Mr. Akin, I have to open you up to balance out your humours” simply to see what happens. I bet Akin gets real sciency, real fast.

    • phdesmond

      jeanbruce,

      you got the century exactly right:  http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/the-h-word/2012/aug/20/legitimate-rape-medieval-medical-concept?CMP=twt_gu

  • Victoria72

    Public servants (e.g. Congressmen and women) are entrusted
    by their constituents to vet all perspectives and be thoroughly informed in
    order to vote on important issues such as this.   It is shameful, in my opinion, for any elected
    official to be so willfully ignorant and misinformed regarding information
    widely accepted by the medical community. 
    I can’t think of a more fitting end for Todd Aiken than to be a victim of
    the system he perpetuates with his own wordsmithing and politicking.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Orlando-A-Williams/1601212941 Orlando A. Williams

    Why is it that these folks do not think of women as people?

  • sustobey

    I’d like to suggest a constitutional amendment disallowing men to vote on issues that pertain to a woman’s body!

  • Matt Wade
  • perihelion22

    The Reductio Absurdum argument is that many fertilized ova never successfully attach to the uterine wall and get discharged with the menses. The woman is generally never aware of this.
    So would the Republicans support having the coroner examine menses? Who know how many dead “Persons” are contained therein?

  • J__o__h__n

    Are Republicans still blocking the Defense of Women act?

  • MrNutso

    Right on caller.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      (I missed that. A bit of context?)

      • MrNutso

        Caller saying that Akin spoke what Republicans believe.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

          Thanks.

  • Kalaimugilan

    1) He should run for office, let the people decide; that is what democracy is.
    2) Any political party that relies heavily on Judeo religions for their philosophies have simply relied on the old testament that renders women as one to be subservient to man in all situations.
     

  • DrJoani

     If Aiken’s wife (if he has one)were raped by anyone but HIM and became pregnant would that be OK with him?He’d be the proud daddy?
    Are there no Republican (GOPig) women who have had abortions?

  • jim_thompson

    Tom,

    Why would anyon be surprized?  Since the GOP took control this time in the House they have voted to use language like “forcible” to define rape, have voted for these “personhood” laws, voted to take away choice when it comes to instances on rape and incest and also have attacked the notion of a woman’s access to birth control.  Come on folks, they would go back to the 1900s when it comes to womens’ rights(Anne Coulter said the right to vote for women should be repealed last week).  Now they talk about some sort of medical fairytale about a woman’s secretions.

    I say keep Akin in…he IS the voice of this GOP crowd.

    Jim in Fort Mill,SC

    • TinaWrites

      And yet, they talk about “choice, choice, choice” when it comes to taking apart our public schools, Medicare, Social Security, etc.  Such hypocrites!  

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

    A side argument is if a women gets pregnant when she has “powers” to prevent a pregnancy if it’s rape, then it really wasn’t rape regardless of what the women says.

  • Chip Hedler

    Well, I may have missed an on-the-air medical explanation of Akin’s theory, but leaving his absurd “legitimate/forcible” hairsplitting aside for the moment, unless Akin has some high-level medical intel about the mechanism by which a women’s body would “shut that whole thing [pregnancy] down” he has to consider the implication that, by his lights, a woman whose body successfully did so would be just as guilty of murder as the woman who uses post-rape pregnancy prevention.  If such a bodily mechanism existed, it would just one more form of control women have over their bodies to label sinful and criminal.

    • BHA_in_Vermont

       There you go! That would be a fun debate to watch him squirm on.

      - “A woman SHOULDN’T have the right to decide to take a ‘morning after’ drug” to keep a pregnancy from happening if she is forcibly/legitimately raped.”

      - “A woman SHOULD have the right to tell her body to keep a pregnancy from happening if she is forcibly/legitimately raped.” “Oh, wait, she is DECIDING to keep a pregnancy from happening?” “Well we can’t have that, all rapes should result in pregnancy.” 

      Maybe they want to put that in as a Constitutional Amendment.
      ;)

    • TinaWrites

      Brilliant comment!  

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/K65FK42WZV7FZHMOAALZRQOMPA G D

    So why is it immoral for for humans to end a pregnancy If god made it possible for women to end a pregnancy from rape?

    Same goes for for miscarriage. If this is “god’s will” this means that what’s moral for god is different than what is moral for humans.

  • philswenson83

    I feel like this focus on “forcible rape” vs. “soft rape” (aka date rape) is Republican rhetoric that condemns what the GOP would see as promiscuous women. It’s the same type of vernacular that invented the “food-stamp president” to imply that the Obama presidency focuses on black people. This whole divisive debate is set up to alienate women who would possibly be put in a situation to be raped. It’s laying blame on the women for “asking for it,” which is sick.

  • sumner7

    And a man can’t get an erection unless he wants one.  Right?

  • MrNutso

    Finally found a way to make this all Obama’s fault.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      Cary is really threading the needle with this stuff.

  • Matt Wade

    Tom, 

    Thank you for presenting the GOP platform on the personhood amendment. Let’s all watch Mary Kate pivot!

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

     http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:H.R.212:
    H.R.212 — Sanctity of Human Life Act
    To provide that human life shall be deemed to begin with fertilization.
    January 7, 2011

    Mr. BROUN of Georgia (for himself, Mr. AKIN, Mr. ALEXANDER, Mr.
    BARTLETT, Mr. BISHOP of Utah, Mr. CARTER, Mr. CHAFFETZ, Mr. COLE, Mr.
    CONAWAY, Mr. FLEMING, Mr. FORBES, Ms. FOXX, Mr. FRANKS of Arizona, Mr.
    GARRETT, Mr. GINGREY of Georgia, Mr. GOHMERT, Mr. JONES, Mr. KING of
    Iowa, Mr. KINGSTON, Mr. KLINE, Mr. LAMBORN, Mr. LATTA, Mr. MANZULLO, Mr.
    MARCHANT, Mr. MCHENRY, Mr. MCKINLEY, Mr. MILLER of Florida, Mrs.
    MYRICK, Mr. NEUGEBAUER, Mr. OLSON, Mr. ROE of Tennessee, Mr. ROGERS of
    Kentucky, Mr. ROGERS of Alabama, Mr. ROONEY, Mr. SCALISE, Mr. SCHOCK,
    Mr. TERRY, Mr. THOMPSON of Pennsylvania, Mr. WESTMORELAND, Mr. SAM
    JOHNSON of Texas, Mr. HERGER, Mr. BURTON of Indiana, Mr. RYAN of
    Wisconsin, Mr. GARY G. MILLER of California, Mr. ADERHOLT, Mr. BACHUS,
    Mr. CRAWFORD, Mr. LONG, Mr. PEARCE, Mrs. BLACK, Mr. GIBBS, Mr.
    HUELSKAMP, Mr. LUETKEMEYER, Mr. ROKITA, and Mr. WITTMAN) introduced the
    following bill

  • WorriedfortheCountry

    Is this the same Terry O’Neill that attacked Ann Romney for lacking an appropriate ‘life experience’?

    Is this the same Terry O’Neill that won’t condemn misogynist attacks on conservative women?

    • Mouse_2012

      What’s your views on women being raped? what’s your views of Akin before this and now?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1408098372 Mari McAvenia

        “Worried” only posts here to get attention. Been dong it for years. No use trying to get intelligent answers from a knee-jerk narcissist like this. Ignore the fool & move on.

        • WorriedfortheCountry

          I didn’t see your comment when I responded to mouse.

          You have an interesting view of my comments. I can assure you that I have no interest in ‘attention’ but I probably disagree with you on many issues.

           Have a nice day.

      • WorriedfortheCountry

         Akin sounded like a nut job to me  — at least in the interview in question.  I’ve never heard of him before yesterday.  However, his apology did sound sincere.  He is clearly strongly pro-life and won’t apologize for that position.

        Rape is rape — a violent crime.
        That is why falsely accusing rape is so horrible — like the Duke lax case.  It makes it harder to prosecute rapists.

    • jefe68

      Desperate. So sad.

  • http://www.facebook.com/anita.paul.5680 Anita Paul

    Why have soon as the took the house they voted on 30 abortion bills?

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

    Women who have abortions are committing murder.

    Murder is punished in this country with prison for life.

    Republicans want women to be charged with murder when they have an abortion.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

      I disagree with your conclusion.

      The right-wing moralizers seem to want everything about contraception and abortion and “down there” to be so icky that it goes away because nobody likes talking about it in public.

      They want abortion and contraception to go away. They want to panty-sniff (see the Kansas DA’s fishing expedition into womens’ clinics records) and shame women who have sex into not having sex, not using contraception, and not having abortions. (And many of them believe the levers of persuasion can work that way.)

      When abortion is criminalized, that means charging people with crimes. But when one asks a public figure on the right “Who should be sent to jail for this crime”, all one gets in return is a blank stare.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

         Yes, they do want it. That’s how they will control women.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

          I think they’re doing a good job (along with a compliant press, natch) of controlling women by making empty threats of criminalization which they have no intention of carrying out, and hiding behind vague ideas of “morals” and religion to suppress womens’ healthcare.

          After all, the JobsJobsJobs Congress, full of no-nonsense Teabaggers, has filed a record number of OhNoesTheWimminz! bills.

      • BHA_in_Vermont

         “And many of them believe the levers of persuasion can work that way.”

        Yeah, worked REAL well in the Palin family.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

          Hey, maybe some right-wingers are too busy making everyone else into better parents to do the parenting themselves.

    • TomK_in_Boston

      That’s right, and its ridiculous. St Thomas Aquinas thought a fetus wasn’t a human being till it could move around, maybe 3 ms. With their love of medieval thinking, why can’t they just listen to him?   I think it’s crazy to say that a sperm and an egg that have hooked up for a nanosecond is a human being. 

    • TinaWrites

      Not according to the Supreme Court ruling that applies.  Yes, I agree with the Court sometimes, and disagree with them vehemently at other times, but right now, abortions that fit within the Court’s guidelines are not illegal and they are not defined as “murder”.  

      This is why it is so important that all people who disagree with the Republicans on this matter, and others, actually vote.  We all know this, but too many people do not exercise their vote, and now, once again, there are major moves to disenfranchise people who HAVE been voting for decades!  Many elderly, rural (or previously rural) people were born at home and do not have birth certificates.  They have, in many cases, been able to exercise their vote thanks to the V.R. Act, 1965.  Now, they turn around, and find, that in the middle of a life which might have many, many challenges thanks to advanced age and poverty that they have to once again prove their right to vote.  

  • Jason mccormick

    A study done in 1996 regarding the chance of pregnancy due to rape(1). The “CONCLUSIONS: 
    Rape-related pregnancy occurs with significant frequency. It is a cause of many unwanted pregnancies and is closely linked with family and domestic violence”.

    I consider myself a fiscally conservative independent. I support our military budget, our second amendment, and the reduction in the size of government. I have a masters degree in biomolecular sciences, and Akin’s remarks dumbfound me. It’s things like this that push me away from the GOP. This psuedo-science and posturing blows my mind.
    -Jason, CT(1) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8765248 

  • 26SueB2

    Please tell me what kind of rape is not “forced”.

    • WorriedfortheCountry

       In some states, a 16 year old with a 18 year old boyfriend would be considered rape.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    The abortion debate shows the conflict of two values:  human life and privacy.  When does “human” life begin?  What rights do people have to control themselves?  How we answer those questions affects the conclusion that we come to on the subject of abortion.  But someone who believes that “human” life begins at conception isn’t necessarily being anti-women by opposing abortion.

    I support the right to abortion, but I would like to see more respect between people who honestly disagree.

    • Duras

      I think the abortion debate is also about what has more personhood: living, breathing human beings, or zygotes.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

         The Republicans have a bill to
        To provide that human life shall be deemed to begin with fertilization.
        H.R.212 — Sanctity of Human Life Act

        http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:H.R.212:

        • Duras

          Wow.  Even St. Augustine can’t decide if a zygote has personhood or not in the Confessions, but our republican politicians think they know more than the mother…. 

          I serioursly became sick to my stomach when I read that bill. 

          These people are psychotic.

  • Ellen Dibble

    Isn’t there a difference between what is wrong and what is illegal?  Doesn’t the difference have to do with the cost to society?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Orlando-A-Williams/1601212941 Orlando A. Williams

    The not so secret party line: “Vice presidential hopeful Paul Ryan can try to backpedal away from Akin as fast as he can, but his name is still on the record in support of that bill, with that language. He can say he’s in line with Mitt Romney and would not ban abortions in the case of rape, but it’s his name attached to House Resolution 212: Sanctity of Human Life Act, which would have done just that.
    No wonder Romney chose Ryan as his running mate; he admires the speed with which the congressman from Wisconsin flip-flops.” http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/21/opinion/granderson-gop-rape-abortion/index.html

  • http://twitter.com/CivicCom Julie Hussey

    I don’t care what he says after the fact, no one who recognizes that rape is rape would ever even consider saying what Aikin said.   

  • philswenson83

    sorry, i posted a repeat. great conversation.

  • Matt Wade

    Todd Akin’s views REPRESENT THE MAINSTREAM OF THE CURRENT GOP. There can be no debate on this.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

      THE MAINSTREAM OF THE CURRENT GOP wants to send women to prison for having abortions.

      That way they can support the private private industry they love so much as well as punish women.

      • WorriedfortheCountry

         Why make things up?

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

           Not making anything up.

          • WorriedfortheCountry

             Name one GOP that want to send women to prison.  One.

            You can’t because there are none.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

            There are 64  in the House who want to define a fetus as a human being from conception.

            If a human being kills another human being in this country they are charged with murder.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

            Sorry, the stupid comment system doesn’t let me link so…

            H.R.212

            Latest Title: Sanctity of Human Life Act

            Sponsor: Rep Broun, Paul C. [GA-10]
            (introduced 1/7/2011)
                 Cosponsors (64)

            Latest Major Action: 1/24/2011
            Referred to House subcommittee. Status: Referred to the Subcommittee on the Constitution.

            COSPONSORS(64), ALPHABETICAL [followed by Cosponsors withdrawn]:     (Sort:

            by date)Rep Aderholt, Robert B. [AL-4]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Akin, W. Todd [MO-2]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Alexander, Rodney [LA-5]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Bachus, Spencer [AL-6]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Bartlett, Roscoe G. [MD-6]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Bishop, Rob [UT-1]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Black, Diane [TN-6]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Burton, Dan [IN-5]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Canseco, Francisco “Quico” [TX-23]
            – 3/28/2012

            Rep Carter, John R. [TX-31]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Chaffetz, Jason [UT-3]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Cole, Tom [OK-4]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Conaway, K. Michael [TX-11]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Crawford, Eric A. “Rick” [AR-1]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Duncan, Jeff [SC-3]
            – 1/20/2011

            Rep Ellmers, Renee L. [NC-2]
            – 1/12/2011

            Rep Farenthold, Blake [TX-27]
            – 1/20/2011

            Rep Fleming, John [LA-4]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Forbes, J. Randy [VA-4]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Foxx, Virginia [NC-5]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Franks, Trent [AZ-2]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Garrett, Scott [NJ-5]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Gibbs, Bob [OH-18]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Gingrey, Phil [GA-11]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Gohmert, Louie [TX-1]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Herger, Wally [CA-2]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Huelskamp, Tim [KS-1]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Johnson, Sam [TX-3]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Jones, Walter B., Jr. [NC-3]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep King, Steve [IA-5]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Kingston, Jack [GA-1]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Kline, John [MN-2]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Lamborn, Doug [CO-5]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Lankford, James [OK-5]
            – 1/12/2011

            Rep Latta, Robert E. [OH-5]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Long, Billy [MO-7]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Luetkemeyer, Blaine [MO-9]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Manzullo, Donald A. [IL-16]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Marchant, Kenny [TX-24]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep McCotter, Thaddeus G. [MI-11]
            – 1/20/2011

            Rep McHenry, Patrick T. [NC-10]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep McKinley, David B. [WV-1]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Miller, Gary G. [CA-42]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Miller, Jeff [FL-1]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Myrick, Sue Wilkins [NC-9]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Neugebauer, Randy [TX-19]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Olson, Pete [TX-22]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Pearce, Stevan [NM-2]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Pompeo, Mike [KS-4]
            – 1/25/2011

            Rep Roby, Martha [AL-2]
            – 11/2/2011

            Rep Roe, David P. [TN-1]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Rogers, Harold [KY-5]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Rogers, Mike D. [AL-3]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Rokita, Todd [IN-4]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Rooney, Thomas J. [FL-16]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Ross, Dennis [FL-12]
            – 1/12/2011

            Rep Ryan, Paul [WI-1]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Scalise, Steve [LA-1]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Schock, Aaron [IL-18]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Stutzman, Marlin A. [IN-3]
            – 1/20/2011

            Rep Terry, Lee [NE-2]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Thompson, Glenn [PA-5]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Westmoreland, Lynn A. [GA-3]
            – 1/7/2011

            Rep Wittman, Robert J. [VA-1]
            – 1/7/2011

          • Duras

            If republicans made abortions illegal, where would they send the scores of women who would have back-alley abortions?

            Republicans generally say abortion is murder…do they not?  Then what would be the punishment for abortion?

            You really need to start thinking about the consequences of your ideology.

  • Ellen Dibble

    Did anyone ever think the offspring should be the responsibility of the man, if it is not aborted?  Of course not, women are not usually so cold-hearted.  But it makes a lot of sense.  The man wanted the child, not the woman.

    • Yar

      DNA has gotten cheap enough to prove responsibility.  I am for castration of convicted rapists proven through clear and convincing  DNA evidence.  None of this solves the problem of rape or of abortion.  
      Every child needs love and support, that requires both family and community.  Why don’t we have a conversation on how to promote this support.  Family leave for parents of young children, a strong social safety net and investing in education.For the 25 percent (as one guest claimed) that believe abortion is immoral in all cases, don’t they also believe an immoral act lead to that desire for the abortion in the first place?  Which immoral act deserves punishment and which needs grace?
      I believe we are called to love the mother in need more than the fetus in her.  Safe legal abortion is better than having no legal option to end a pregnancy. 

  • Rex Henry

    What about date rape and when a woman is passed out? Does the female body still secret those hormones to kill the sperm or is the body too relaxed?

  • Stephen706

    This is becoming just another beat up on the GOP hour… really, how wide can these guests stretch the second, third, fourth order effects of Akins’ idiotic statement…

    This is not the main issues of the election, but guess it is coming back…

    And if everyone doesn’t want Men making medical decisions for women why is this OUT of BOUNDS but not the ACA as a whole (remember, mammograms and cervical screening, prenantal care–big women’s issues are being down emphasized for screening to the USPSTF which is what ACA is looking at for deciding what to pay for or force insurers to pay for…!!!)

    Rape is wrong.. all agree on that… where the GOP is trying to parse is what to allow federal dollars to pay for and what not…

    Me personally, Plan B for all YES… and available elective termination with public dollars within the first 16 weeks and with criminal complaint made and filed… no exceptions… silence only allows perps to continue to prey on others… private dollars, private organizations can do anything they want or choose to within current laws

    • MrNutso

      If it’s not the main issue of the election, how come Republicans nationally and on the state level keep bringing them up?  And why do Republicans keep fighting each other to see who is the most extreme on these issues?

    • J__o__h__n

      This is a legitimate issue.  Romney will appoint Supreme Court justices who will be restricting rights for decades.  Bork is his campaign’s judicial advisor.

  • John Drinane

    What really grinds my gears is this notion that the republican party promotes this notion of “Gov. is the problem, just get government out of the way and everything will work fine.” Unless it goes against their specific moral imperative. I’m not saying Dems don’t push their own moral views, but at least they don’t claim they want to get gov. out of the way and then do the oposite. I can’t think of a more invasive regulation than one that effects  family planning.

    • John_in_Amherst

       GOP: get the gov’t out of the boardroom and into the bedroom….

      • Olivier Francis

        Well said, John.

        They want to force unwanted children upon wemen. All the while lipserving personal freedom and liberty. 

        Then  they cut the legs by defunding any sort 
        of financial help for bringing up that child.

        I dont even understand that this is a national party and it periodically wins seats and elections
        in one way or the other. I dont care about Aiken 
        because this is the platform I have heard from this party.

        If a grown up adult is killed by a gun this same stupid party does not have the guts to ban powerful weapons.

        This is the same party that is trigger happy and rains death and people living elsewhere.

        They even run on a religious platform bringing unfathomable disrepute to Jesus Christ and a great religion.

        Stop watching brain dead shows may be just may be reason will return to the population.

  • Coastghost

    We would not call the (female) Texas teacher convicted last week of engaging in sex with up to four of her students a “rapist”, though, would we? What WOULD we call it? Has all the hallmarks of sexual predation.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1205332288 Laurie Beth Brunner

      I would.

    • Gabor Nagy

      who is “we”? rapist is defined by the definition of rape.

    • Mike_Card

      Seems like the topic under discussion today was pregnancy.  Do you have a point?

  • http://twitter.com/Buson17 Bruce Pfeiffer, Jr

    This man serves on the House Science, Space, and Technology Committee!

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

       Take a look at who else is:

      Mostly global warming deniers.

      Republican Members (23)

      Ralph M. Hall, TexasF. James Sensenbrenner, WisconsinLamar S. Smith, TexasDana Rohrabacher, CaliforniaRoscoe G. Bartlett, MarylandFrank D. Lucas, OklahomaJudy Biggert, IllinoisW. Todd Akin, MissouriRandy Neugebauer, TexasMichael T. McCaul, TexasPaul Broun, GeorgiaSandy Adams, FloridaBenjamin Quayle, ArizonaCharles J. “Chuck” Fleischmann, TennesseeScott Rigell, VirginiaSteven Palazzo, MississippiMo Brooks, AlabamaAndy Harris, M.D., MarylandRandy Hultgren, IllinoisChip Cravaack, MinnesotaLarry Bucshon, IndianaDan Benishek, Michigan
      VACANCY

      • Call_Me_Missouri

        Nothing like putting unqualified people on a committee together, eh?

        Andy Harris is a Physician…  How does that qualify you to be on the Science, Space, and Technology Committee???  He shouldn’t even be in Politics.  

        Makes my skin crawl reading that list.

  • Duras

    Akin appologized and said he used the wrong words, etc., but why would anybody come close to saying something like he said?  How does the line “legitimate rape” enter the realm of thought? 

    What kind of ideology has in its scope a condition where rape can be legitimate or illegitimate?

    • phdesmond

      duras,

      turns out it’s a 13th century idea:  http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/the-h-word/2012/aug/20/legitimate-rape-medieval-medical-concept?CMP=twt_gu

      at least it’s not shown to be biblical!

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/LXNK66OTAYO5XWOWGK4MSGOT3M Calliope

        Did you see the “apology”? He acts constipated in it…he says he has 2 daughters….he’s only apologizing because he knows he has to to get elected and try to win some women’s votes back. I don’t understand at all why women would ever vote for this guy and his ilk, much less marry one of them.

      • Duras

        In the Old Testament, if the rape victim wasn’t married, then she had to marry her attacker. 

        It seems that the streem of conservative/right wing ideology derives its roots from the power/oppression side of the Bible instead of the “Be your brother’s keeper/Love thy neighbor” side. 

        In my opinion, I think people are “pro-life” because it gives them a false sense of power over other people’s bodies than a care for potential human life.  I know conservative will strongly disagree, but I remain unconvinced by their arguments because they are often hung up on a woman’s sexual lifestyle.  And that, again, is part of the power/oppression stream of the Bible.

  • GEEBUGGS

    Akin’s comments were uttered as he recalled them good ol’ days when a slave master could legitimately rape his slaves.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

       Or just the good old days when women didn’t report men for rape.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

    How ironic – just found out Akin sits on the House Committee on Science, Space, and Technology.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/LXNK66OTAYO5XWOWGK4MSGOT3M Calliope

       I found that interesting too…someone who is completely science illiterate…doesn’t understand basic biology…on the science, space and technology committee. I think he’s only on there because he has a degree in engineering.

    • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

      Yes, he also denies the facts related to climate change:

      http://climatecrocks.com/2012/08/20/rep-akins-tea-party-science-rape-does-not-cause-pregnancy-climate-might-be-cooling-soon-we-just-dont-know/

      You can have your own opinions and beliefs — but you cannot have your own facts.

      Neil

      • John_in_Amherst

         Unfortunately for us all, the GOP does have it’s own set of facts, bolstered by non-stop propaganda from FOX, Limbaugh, the Religious Right, etc.  It’s just that their “facts” are not reality-based…

  • DrewInGeorgia

    For those who so vehemently oppose abortion at all levels, question: If your opposition to abortion is based on religious beliefs, doesn’t your chosen deity bare the responsibility of judgement?

    There’s no defense for what Todd Akin said. The implication was that the majority of alleged sexual assaults are either consensual or, even more abhorrent, actually enjoyed by the victim. I would say I am flabbergasted that someone in Todd Akin’s position would be foolish enough to make such a hateful statement but I’m not. Who was that Representative from Alabama that was on OP recently? I bet he and Mr. Akin would get along famously. Paul Ryan would probably have fun at their Tea Party as well.

    • Gregg Smith

      He implied no such thing. You inferred it. 

      Abortion isn’t a religious issue.

      • Mike_Card

        Correct.  He didn’t imply it, he stated it as fact, with supporting statistics.

        • Gregg Smith

          Take it up with Drew who called it an implication.

          • Mike_Card

            We aren’t talking about Drew; we’re talking about Todd Akin.

          • DrewInGeorgia

            I’m wondering if I missed something yesterday because three or four other comments I made were removed from the board. Only thing I could figure is that the comments they were replies to must have been deleted. I certainly didn’t say anything worth editing.

          • Gregg Smith

            That happened to me as well.

      • John_in_Amherst

         The question of when life begins is based on an arbitrary definition.  For some, conception is it.  For others, life begins at birth, or when the fetus is no longer dependent on a woman’s body and is capable of an independent existence. 
        Again, we -everyone including the Pope – celebrate birthdays, NOT conception days).  When someone asks how old you are on your Xth birthday do you respond with X, or X plus 9 months? 
        Religion is not relevant to believing one definition or another, unless one Believes that it is.  I know of no one who maintains life begins at conception who bases that belief on something other than religion.  We agree on one thing here: that God and religion should be left out of this discussion, meaning the decision should be left to the woman whose body is involved. 

  • sean kinsella

    How rape could become an expression of ideological policy is beyond me. 

    How these folks on the right can fly so far askew of legitimate science and enlist their own version of the climate or female biology toward their own political goals frightens me. I worry about the future of my three young children with these people running the nation. 

  • tamsyn9

    One of the things I find so disturbing — and absent from this discussion — is how all of these issues related to women’s reproductive rights — abortion, birth control, notions of rape, etc. — as well as the debate about when human life begins overwhelmingly have roots in extremist religious ideology. That laws are being made in this country outlawing and proscribing women’s rights, defining rape, delimiting health care funding and rules, on the basis of religious ideology is so antithetical to the framework of our nation’s democracy.

    Religion has absolutely NO place in the political sphere. Of course, politicians who are religious are certainly allowed to hold office — but they should not be creating legislation that impacts the entire nation based on their “religious” notions of morality. They are free to make personal choices based on their religious beliefs — but they should not be allowed to make laws that force their religious views on the rest of us.

    That is what so deeply troubles me about how extremist — or even moderate — religious views have infiltrated our political system, and are setting the terms of the debate. Many of these same religious ideologues are among those very same who like to talk about holding true to the visions of our “Founding Fathers” — yet they like to conveniently skirt the fact that separation of church and state were among the most core, the most central tenets of our democracy.

    Why is this insidious religious infiltration of our secular democracy never spoken of? Are we too afraid of offending religious people? Are we worried about being too PC?

    Until we can bluntly unveil and discuss the degree to which our democracy is being undermined by calculated efforts of religiously motivated politicians to create a democracy based on religious beliefs — a theocracy — we will continue to regress in our progress on abortion rights, contraception and other women’s freedoms — including why extremist right-wing religious zealots like Akins, Ryan and others of their ilk mince words about rape (which I would imagine has roots in their views on women’s roles, men’s superiority over women, as dictated by religious texts written centuries ago by men who in their time believed women to be inferior to men … the reverberations of those misogynist philosophies continue to resonate today).

    • Coastghost

      Women do not HAVE “reproductive rights”. Women would have reproductive rights could they generate their own pregnancies. Absent that capability, they have no more reproductive rights than men possess.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/LXNK66OTAYO5XWOWGK4MSGOT3M Calliope

        Women do have reproductive rights. We do have a choice not to have children and not to be forcefully impregnated. Just like you have the right not to be sodomized.

        • Coastghost

          Then tell me what “reproductive rights” men are permitted to enjoy.

          • phdesmond

            ghost,

            they could always go f* themselves. :-)

          • Emily Loveless

            Sorry Coastghost, but as you pointed out, it’s biology. Women have a far more biologically taxing role in reproduction than men do, and there is recent history of women not being permitted to have the same reproductive rights that you are protesting that men do not have. I’ve never heard of a man being sodomized against his will and then forced to have a child with the person that sodomized them. That is the context in which we are speaking here, rape and the option to have an abortion afterwards. Akin said that women who are legitimately raped do not get pregnant as a
            result of that rape, as if a woman could shift around her insides to
            block sperm if she was being raped, or allow the sperm access if she really wanted
            to have sex. Do you not see the danger in such a mindset? So you don’t like the sounds of that, having a child with someone who sodomizes you? Well it does happen to women all over the world, not men.Think about others for a change.

      • jefe68

        This is all about controlling women, period.
        Your comment speaks to that ideology.

        • Coastghost

          Ideology, or biology?

          • Duras

            So the man takes ownership of a woman’s body if he impregnated her…?

    • Gregg Smith

      “… but they should not be allowed to make laws that force their religious views on the rest of us.”

      I agree, that’s why I find Obama’s war on religion so offensive.

      • tamsyn9

        I don’t see how President Obama is waging a war on religion … could you point to some specific examples?

        In contrast to religiously-motivated conservatives, who are seeking to use politics to re-create a nation in which religious tenets are the basis of universal laws governing the nation, moderates and others, like President Obama, are not obsessively pursuing an agenda to proscribe people’s ability to freely practice their religions or religious beliefs.

        Rather, they want to prevent others’ religious views from being legislatively foisted carte blanche on everyone else … i.e., they are upholding the core principle of separation of church and state upon which our democracy was founded.

        Abortion rights are about a woman’s right to govern her own body — and her freedom to choose should not be governed by someone else’s subjective notion of when life begins. Scientifically speaking, a newly fertilized egg is nothing but a complex chemical reaction… taken outside the body, it would cease to exist. The people seeking to legislate that life beings at conception do so on the religious notion that a soul is created at the time of conception — not on the basis of any biological or scientific data or definitions.

        • Gregg Smith

          Requiring Catholics to provide (pay for) insurance that covers contraception chokes their ability to practice their religious freedom. I call that a war on religion. It certainly is not a war on contraception which is readily available and cheap.

          Please tell me of any specific Republican effort to bring religious tenets into government. Or is it just your opinion?

          As far as abortion goes, I think you are arguing semantics. I don’t think the question is about souls. When else but conception can life begin? Newt says not until implantation, fine… I guess. But a life is a life. Taking it is a heavy deal for both parents even if they are atheist.

          • Mike_Card

            You’re advocating for a la carte taxation?  You might be comfortable with that, but it usually doesn’t wash.  A pretty dicey proposition.

          • J__o__h__n

            What about the war on atheists?  Why should I have to subsidize people’s contributions to their churches by making them tax dedictible?  Why aren’t churches taxed?  Doesn’t that violate my freedom of religion? 

          • Gregg Smith

            A tax deduction is not a subsidy unless you consider peoples earnings to be property of the government. So no, your religious freedom is not infringed.

          • J__o__h__n

            Of course it is.  The revenue is made up by others.

          • tamsyn9

            Hello Gregg — I thought you might be thinking about that recent controversy over that provision of the Affordable Care Act, where faith-based organizations were not exempted from a law change that would have required that they pay for contraception through their health plans…. from what I recall, the terms were softened.

            In the case of private religious organizations, non-profits, colleges, etc.. I think it’s fair to give religious exemption. As private organizations — so long as they’re not receiving federal dollars, and their health care policies treat both men & women equally — it should be up to them to decide. What worries me is creating a fuzzy line where, for instance, pharmacy employees can refuse to dispense contraception because it goes against their moral code — to me, that is a crossing of the line.

            But to get back to your point, the Democrats erred, and were hasty, in drafting that original provision — and certainly, the Left lapses as well — but I would hardly call that a “war on religion.”

            Also, I think it’s important to note that President Obama’s proposed birth control rule was almost the same as one that existed under the administration of former President George W. Bush — but no one complained about it at the time. Here’s an excerpt from a February 2012 Mother Jones article about the issue:

            “In December 2000, the Equal Employment Opportunity
            Commission ruled that companies that provided prescription drugs
            to their employees but didn’t provide birth control were in violation of Title
            VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, which prevents discrimination on the basis of
            sex. That opinion, which the George W. Bush administration did nothing to alter
            or withdraw when it took office the next month, is still in effect today—and
            because it relies on Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, it applies to all
            employers with 15 or more employees. Employers that don’t offer prescription coverage
            or don’t offer insurance at all are exempt, because they treat men and women
            equally—but under the EEOC’s interpretation of the law, you can’t offer other
            preventative care coverage without offering birth control coverage, too.”

            In contrast, over the years, many conservative Republicans have sought to chip away at or overturn Roe v Wade (for instance) on religious moral grounds, to fight for permitting prayer in schools, to require that biblical creationism be taught in public schools, of course, other efforts to restrict abortions. Former President Bush also, through his faith-based initiatives, blurred that line more between church and state — first, by creating the Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives, and also by removing prior requirements that a faith-based organization’s charitable and religious functions be separated.

            To your comment about when life begins: I disagree with the logic of saying it begins at conception for purposes of legislating things like “personhood,” abortion rights, etc., because if you were to remove a newly fertilized eggs that’s minutes, hours, days or even weeks old, it is at those early stages nothing but a complex chemical reaction that cannot function or survive outside the womb.

            I also disagree with how so many in our culture have no problems arguing life begins at conception for humans — but have no objections to performing contraceptive measures on other animals … to me, it’s profoundly hypocritical…. but the reasoning seems to be of religious origin — that humans are somehow better than other living creatures.

            And I don’t think my view on abortion is a matter of semantics… I realize one’s opinion on it likely hinges on one’s notion of when life begins. For me, my view is that until a fetus has developed enough to have some of the rudimentary functions of “life” — rather than just being a perfunctory chemical reaction increasing in complexity — I don’t feel a “life” is being taken. I can begin to understand more abortion opponents’ views once a fetus has reached the critical stage where it could feasibly survive on its own outside the womb… but because the idea of when *human* life begins is really subjective, I object to legislation that codifies the religious subjective stance.

          • Gregg Smith

            I was being a bit hyperbolic by saying “War on religion” but less so than the phrase “War on contraception”. I felt it appropriate. The mandate did survive and I don’t believe the Constitution mentions businesses, churches or organizations. An individual walking in the park is just as protected as a church. 

            I should point out, I support parental consent and a ban on partial-birth abortion. I oppose taxpayer funded abortions for the reason above. Beyond that, I am pro-choice. I am not a Christian. I think the debate of over legislating where life begins should be based on when life begins. If we then want to legislate a time frame when the life is not as significant and can be taken, fine. I have the guts to say, it is acceptable to me to take a life in the first trimester. Not many want to face the harsh reality of their rhetoric.

          • Bruce94

            Thanks for your thoughtful reply to the “war on religion” B.S.  Your unpacking of the issues and perspective are greatly appreciated. 

            I haven’t had the time to look it up, but in the final resolution, didn’t the Obama Admin. wind up granting an exemption to actual Churches (keeping intact the legal requirment on Catholic universities, social service agencies and the like that have a charter/mission to accept, serve or employ anyone without regard to their religion?

            Furthermore, didn’t the compromise stipulate that the insurance companies would pick up the cost of contraception if an institution had an objection?

            Also, Gregg’s comment assumes that Catholics are of one mind on contraception in general and the insurance mandate in particular.  Didn’t Associated Catholic Charities and the Leadership Conference of Women Religious (the largest Catholic Nun organization in the U.S.) as well as most Catholic university administrators approve the compromise?

      • TomK_in_Boston

        Geez, talking points again? “War on religion”? You gotta be kidding. The religious are waging a war on everyone else, dictating their opinion of when life begins and everything else.

        I understand, the Big Lie approach is white is black. So when the religious go on a jihad against the USA, SOP is to gin up a “war on religion”. When the right proposes to turn medicare into a Groupon, SOP is to accuse the President of attacking medicare. With the 1% taking more of the income than at any time since 1929 due to thermonuclear class warfare, SOP is to accuse anyone who notices they’re being screwed of practicing class warfare. I get it, but I don’t like it.

        • notafeminista

          So.  From conception to birth (commonly referred to as gestation) is the entity a life or not? 

          • John_in_Amherst

             living tissue and a human life are not the same things. 

      • John_in_Amherst

         “war” on religion?  Taking a page from the FOX playbook, eh? 
        For those of us who believe life begins with the first breath (we DO celebrate birthdays, not conception days, right?), or that God has NOT appointed infallible spokesmen to tell us all what is spiritually and morally right, it is offensive for politicians to insert themselves into our religious or reproductive lives. 
        It is not oppression for government to prevent a religion or group from imposing its morality on society at large.  And preserving freedom does come at a cost.  I do not believe in the death penalty, but the government makes me pay to put people to death.  I assume you want “less government”.  Exactly how does that work if laws and paying for their enforcement is an a la carte venture?

        • Gregg Smith

          “It is not oppression for government to prevent a religion or group from imposing its morality on society at large.”

          Who is imposing their morality? What does God have to do with it? Why should the government force people to ignore their religion? I disagree with your premise.

          • skeptic150

            We have the protected right to practice our religion in your church, home, or whatever private (legal) venue we choose.  Freedom of religion is protected by the Constitution.  Imposing religious views on society at large, however, is not, period.  This is something too many politicians have ignored and continue to ignore. 

          • http://www.facebook.com/john.bonomolo.5 John Bonomolo

             I *wish* Obama was waging a war on religion.

            Don’t worry though. That wont happen for a few hundred years.

  • phdesmond

    interestingly, the beliefs that Akin holds date back to the thirteenth century:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/the-h-word/2012/aug/20/legitimate-rape-medieval-medical-concept?CMP=twt_gu 

    • buffonelder101

      no need to fix what isn’t broken. oh wait, i forget that we are much smarter than in the past… that explains carter, reagan, bush, clinton, bush, obama… (i think i am arguing against myself now)

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg
    • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

      Call and ask these Congressmen if they are going to send women to prison if they have an abortion.

      • buffonelder101

        and applaud them if they say yes

    • Call_Me_Missouri

      Thanks for providing this.  I am so glad none of my representatives are on that list.

  • J__o__h__n

    Where is Ed today?

    • Mike_Card

      Mr Disqus tossed my extremely witty riposte from a couple of hours ago.  In the spirit of total sharing, I repeat it:  Ed is the other guy at the Akin For Senate rally.

      • J__o__h__n

        I wouldn’t blame the usually blame-worthy Disqus for that.  Several posts were censored yesterday.  They were marked as being reviewed and now they are gone without a trace – not even a note saying they were deleted.  Mine complaining about the censorship is also no longer posted. 

        • DrewInGeorgia

          Thanks for that clarification, I wondered what happened.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/LXNK66OTAYO5XWOWGK4MSGOT3M Calliope

    And…then there’s Roe v. Wade, Coastghost.

    This was supposed to post under Tamsyn9′s post, but for some reason it posted here.

  • John_in_Amherst

    It is almost amusing to watch the “Big Money” behind the GOP (like Crossroads America) falling over themselves to get distance between them and this “outing” of the moral agenda of the republicans.  To think that tax cuts for the rich and corporations might be jeopardized by religious right!   

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/GYOKNNUKGSRTSA4RNFMUJRO5WE Greg

       Yeah, the big money sometimes finds the crazies can’t be controlled.

      • libsbite

        like obama and buffet two crazies out for america’s throat

    • MrNutso

      Republicans sell themselves to Big Money to get elected so they can focus on values, morals, you name it.

      • libsbite

        so that is why the abortion industry is backing obama because the like rape? Because its good for business. The biggest corps and billionaires back obama. Do your home work first engage mouth second 

        • John_in_Amherst

           hey, neoconssuck, oh, I mean libsbite, abortion is always a tragedy, there is no industrial abortion complex, and you might want do YOUR homework and take a look at the finances behind the various superpacs and the total raised on both sides…  Between the Koch boys, Adelman and Rove’s band of anonymous donors, hundreds of millions have poured into the Romney/Ryan slush fund, and the total raised by Big Oil, Big Casino, Big Coal, and Big Bellicose Pro-West Bank settlement Republicans is far in excess of Obama’s total

    • Bruce94

      Faith-based economics (i.e supply-side tax cuts) derailed by faith-based intolerance–I like it.

  • Rudolfensus

     “Forcibly raped” … that’s like saying “lethally killed”. Definitely need to work on education in this country.

    • buffonelder101

      unless you realize how many cry rape when they regret their choice. sadly this exists too. whoops, i forgot… women never lie.

      • Rudolfensus

         unless ? Please don’t invent words. There is a clear definition of the word ‘rape’. Whether rape took place or not may be an issue, but you can’t call it ‘cry rape’ or ‘legitimate rape’ – that’s just as stupid as ‘non-lethal killing’.

  • Gregg Smith

    Who was the victim in the Duke Lacrosse case? Was that a “legitimate” rape?

    • Mike_Card

      Wrong deflection.  Today’s topics are pregnancy and pseudo-science.

      • Gregg Smith

        No deflection just context. 

        • Mike_Card

          Can’t recall any allegation or suggestion of pregnancy in that one.  Maybe your question is better directed to the Rev Akin.

        • Gabor Nagy

          how is this relevant? Are you some ape?

        • jefe68

          You sir are a cad.

    • Gregg Smith

      That’s cool how nobody will answer the question but everybody calls me silly names.

  • Call_Me_Missouri

    Does anyone other than me find all of Todd Akin’s apologies a  little pointless?

    There is no doubt in my mind that he said exactly what he meant to say, because that is what he believes to be the truth.  Why bother apologizing?  No one is buying the whole “I chose the wrong words” apology, are they?  What words could you possibly parse into that sentence that would actually change it’s meaning in any meaningful way?  He didn’t misspeak.  He’s just stupid.  And to quote famous comedian Ron White…  “You can’t fix stupid.”  So why apologize for it?

    • tamsyn9

      He’s apologizing, I would imagine, not because he sincerely regrets his words or their implicit and explicit meanings, but because it’s the PC thing to do — and might appease some of the people who were aggravated or angered by it, and thus woo some of them back.

      Back that’s probably because those people are generally as or just about as far to the right as he is…

      Sadly, I doubt his gaffe — (and who was it who said something to the effect that gaffes are about the only times politicians speak the truth?) — will have much impact on the race in Missouri. Having lived there for several years, and having in-laws who are from and still live in rural parts of Missouri, I think most people whose general philosophies are aligned with his will feel sympathetic towards him, and probably the handful of those swayed enough to shift their votes probably won’t be enough to turn the tide.

      Missouri, from what I recall, is a very conservative state — and from afar, it seems it’s only gotten more so since the time I lived there.

      • Call_Me_Missouri

        I pretty much agree with your analysis.

        I tend to think that the extra press and the repetition of the statement over and over again will insight a larger number of conservative voters to the polls than liberals voters to vote against him.
        I’m really not a fan of transparently disingenuous apologies.

    • OBKAUKA

      Irrespective of Mr. Akin’s language, he doesn’t even have
      the science right.  When I was a graduate
      student in reproductive biology in the mid-1970s, I remember reading two
      studies that found that the pregnancy rate following rapes was higher than the
      theoretical pregnancy rate expected (given time of menstrual cycle, etc.).  These studies were cited as evidence that
      although women are primarily spontaneous ovulators (species that release eggs
      at a regular phase of their menstrual cycle), under certain circumstances
      induced ovulation may also occur (female rabbits, for example, are induced
      ovulators and release eggs when they have sex, accounting for this species’
      high fertility rate).  Teleologic
      discussions aside, these studies suggest that women not only lack a physiologic
      mechanism to prevent pregnancies but are in fact at a higher risk of
      conceiving.

      • Call_Me_Missouri

        Thanks for sharing this.  I’ll have to do some research about this.

        To be honest, I was most offended by his lack of understanding of basic anatomy.  The fact that the Missouri education system didn’t teach him better than this statement would indicate is what is most offensive.  I guess they don’t have fact based sex education in Missouri.

    • TomK_in_Boston

      I agree. His only mistake was to say what the far right really thinks and their the real agenda. The apology he owes is to his fellow wingnuts, for blowing their cover.

      • Bruce94

        Yep, the politician’s worst gaffe—telling the truth or what he truly believes.  All Akin did was to expose the rotting core of the GOP which has grown increasingly misogynist, chauvinist, homophobic, racist, anti-science and irrational.  Maybe Akin’s gaffe will be the gift that keeps on giving…giving the public yet another insight into the extremist ideology that has taken over the GOP base and moved it to the periphery of the political spectrum.

        • TomK_in_Boston

          nice summary :)

        • Call_Me_Missouri

          “All Akin did was to expose the rotting core of the GOP which has grown increasingly misogynist, chauvinist, homophobic, racist, anti-science and irrational.”

          ROFLMAO!  You are my hero for the next 5 minutes!  That was terrific.

    • Unterthurn

      It really does not matter if he is stupid or not. 
      He is part of the group.
      He represents the republican party.

  • Gregg Smith

    The deadline has come and gone, Akin is still in.

  • Edward Silha

    Todd Akin: another example of a Republican politician that has no grasp of science and makes false claims (about many things such as climate change and CFC’s) gleaned from web sites that support the views he holds but he neglects to find reliable resources to determine the real facts. If he agrees with the claims, the claims “must be valid” (;->).

    Libsbite/Mike_Card:
    Was he correct in his claim? NO!
    Does he disagree with 97.5% of climate and earth scientists? YES!
    Was he wrong about CFC’s? Yes

    Even Jon Huntsman ( http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/jon-huntsman-swinging-gop-rivals/story?id=14349989#.UDQwXN1lQvo ) worried that the Republican party would be cast as the anti-science party.

    • libsbite

      democrats have no idea what science is. You are always human, never are you less. Go ahead knock off all your children the world will be much better off.

      • Mike_Card

        Better yet, go get help.  Cuz you definitely need help.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/V6EAFRSBIBLOBN5UFHV2VI3DIM Paul

    By a large margin, American support legal abortions.  http://www.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

    This is a choice that should be left to the woman. 

    Stay out of it, Rob, unless you grow a vagina.

    • notafeminista

      Fun to watch guys support the pro-choice women.   Takes all the pressure off.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

        Yep. You nailed ‘em: Pro choice guys just don’t bother with anything in the “family planning” aisle and depend on a woman driving herself to a quick, easy and painless trip to the In’n’Out Abortionarium.

        Just when I think you said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talking.

        (h/t Hank Hill)

        • notafeminista

          We know from the women that men don’t stick around to help her during and after the pregnancy.  Why, that comment was made at least once right here on this very board.

          Men don’t just depend women demanding abortions, they celebrate and encourage it.  After all, women have demanded their reproductive rights, who are the men not to give it to them and thus perpetuate the stereotype of them created by pro-choice women.  Heavens dear, pro-choice men just want out from under.  It’s not rocket science.

          • notafeminista

            Why, just look at Paul’s comment a few posts above (assuming Disqus hasn’t re-arranged things).  He rather snarkily demands another poster keeps his opinions to himself unless “he grows a vagina.”  As if men have no resposibility in the process.  Of course men want women to have choices and they are going to make sure each and every time that choice doesn’t involve men.

            I can’t believe women haven’t held men to a higher standard.

          • Gregg Smith

            That is such a good point.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            This is hilarious. Tell us more about what you imagine about men, especially the pro-choice sort.

          • notafeminista

            You agree that a discussion that leads to a decision to abort should include men?

          • Bill_GKD

            Maybe.  It depends on the situation.  If push came to shove, though, I wouldn’t want to give a man the veto right prior to viability.  After viability I have real issues with abortion.

          • notafeminista

            So prior to viability men are not part of the process?

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            You’re having a rough reading comprehension day. Again.

          • notafeminista

            Are men part of the process or not? 

  • Alex Zsoldos

    The root of the problem is lack of education. As the reporter mentioned, Akin already wants to get rid of emergency contraception, even though the medical professionals tell us it does not cause an abortion. It’s total disregard of expert opinions and the “fair and balanced” media is promoting fiction to the majority of Americans. UGH! Is this 2012???? 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=692337150 Greg Finger

    Tom, you guest who says that Akin has support from Republicans is absolutely right.  The problem is, these are the same people that in my home state (NC) are writing into law that scientists need to ignore science in researching global warming, the same people who believe that humans and dinosaurs lived together 3000 years ago, and that are ok with justifying killing somebody because he provides a legal service that they don’t agree with (Dr. George Tiller).

    • RobertLongView

      This is Chrititan Charity, eh?  http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/08/22/3469364/rev-benham-to-get-new-trial-on.html“What I do isn’t stalking,” Benham told the Observer Tuesday. “I’m exercising my First Amendment rights as a Christian to expose what is evil. This stalking law is devastatingly dangerous to free speech.
      “They’ve gutted the First Amendment. We go all around the country and do this. We go to the abortionists’ homes, their practices and the abortion mills … . They want to censure the Gospel’s message. They want to get us off the streets. They want to silence our message.”
      Benham, in appealing his stalking conviction, had also accused the judge of making a mistake when he allowed the prosecution to introduce evidence about a case that involved a “wanted” poster for a doctor who performed abortions in Wichita, Kan. That doctor, George Tiller, was shot to death in his church by an anti-abortion activist in 2009.
      Benham argued that the evidence about Tiller was irrelevant and unduly inflammatory.
      The appeals court judges disagreed. The “wanted” poster was relevant, they ruled, and its probative value outweighed any prejudicial effect.

  • molly levine

    His apology is almost more disturbing than the original comment, it just reaffirms what get me so upset in the first place. Clearly he equates “legitimate rape” with “forcible rape”, meaning that he does not consider date rape and the like real rape.
    The scariest part of this is that he doesn’t even have any idea that there is anything wrong with saying that only forcible rape is “legitimate”. He thinks the controversy is over him saying that there was a legitimate reason to rape someone.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001019955062 La Zonga

    No rape is legitimate.  

  • Suiye

    One of the speakers mentioned that the GOP won the women’s vote in 2010 and it is the Obama administration that’s making this election about women’s health issues.  I beg to differ – Since the House has been under Republican leadership, they have voluntarily ducked their “jobs, jobs, jobs” mantra in favor over 200 bills that deal with women’s health issues in this very difficult economy. They brought this on themselves. This is warped focus. Period.

  • JGC

    For the people of Missouri, it is truly a long intellectual fall from Mark Twain to Todd Akin. 

    • DrewInGeorgia

      Twain has always been the exception, not the rule.

  • Unterthurn

    Shocking! That such a thought could even come into existence in someone’s head leaves me dumbfounded. And further that the sicko could even share this with anyone yet alone on a public forum is truly scary.

    The republican party is for the misfits of society.

    • Gregg Smith

      There was a concerted effort yesterday to paint the entire Republican party with Akin’s silly comment. It seems to have worked on you.

      • Bill_GKD

        Hopefully there aren’t as many Republicans as stupid as Todd Akin when it comes to basic biology, but his position opposing abortion seems pretty in line with the whole party:

        http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-08-20/republican-platform-won-t-protect-mortgage-tax-deduction

        “Republican drafters of their party’s
        2012 platform reaffirmed support for a constitutional amendment
        banning abortion that would allow no exception for terminating
        pregnancies caused by rape.”

        • Gregg Smith

          Thank you for making the distinction everyone else in conflating. Is it really news that Republicans oppose abortion?

      • Joseph_Wisconsin

         Republican party platform to include call for Constitutional Amendment to ban all abortions, even in cases of rape and incest.

        http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/20/first-on-cnn-gop-prepares-tough-anti-abortion-platform/

        • Gregg Smith

          Does Ryan believe rape does not cause pregnancy?

      • Joseph_Wisconsin
      • Joseph_Wisconsin
      • jefe68

        The GOP just published this: The stance on abortion is: no-exceptions Constitutional amendment outlawing abortion, even in cases of rape, incest and threat to the life of the mother. 

        You were saying. Akin told the truth about his convictions, and he’s sticking to them.
        One has to admire that on one level. Even though I find them appalling. Go ahead, throw the man under a bus and support the same agenda at the same time. What’s that called again? Hypocrisy.

        • Gregg Smith

          Roe v. Wade is not going anywhere. You’re so funny!

          • jefe68

            You are really very misinformed about what is going on in each state in this regard. It’s amazing how you make these comments and you really know nothing about this subject at all.

          • Gregg Smith

            I know enough to understand Roe v. Wade is federal precedent confirmed by the SCOTUS and is not a State matter. Stare decisis dictates the law will not be overturned. Even Scalia says so. Smarty pants.

          • Bill_GKD

            But opponents have figured out other ways to restrict access.  Check out what has gone in recently in states like Mississippi and Virginia.  They can’t outlaw the procedure, but they can put up obstacles that make it difficult for providers to operate.

          • Gregg Smith

            And in other States the opposite is happening. When Obama was in the Illinois State Legislature he voted for a law that would allow doctors to kill the infant after delivery. He was the only one voting that way, fortuneately. Either way Roe v Wade is the law of the land.

          • Bill_GKD

            Is this what you’re talking about?

            http://www.factcheck.org/2008/08/obama-and-infanticide/

          • Gregg Smith

            Yes.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

            That “infanticide” meme is bullflop.

            No wonder you believe it.

            You seem polite, you write in complete sentences making a paragraph.

            And you peddle absolute fekking lies.

          • Gregg Smith

            Dude, the vote is a matter of record.

      • Unterthurn

        Silly?
        You obviously are a paid blogger…

        • Gregg Smith

          Do you think his comment was not silly?

      • jimino

        Gregg, since you seem to be well versed in what members of the Republican party really mean, perhaps you can address these two matters that logically and necessarily flow from the “life begins at fertilization” position, which is the stated position of Aiken, Ryan, and scores of other Republican Congressional members:

        1. Is it envisioned that women getting an abortion and those who aid and abet them in doing so get the death penalty or life imprisonment for murder, or is some other penalty contemplated?

        2. Since probably millions of fertilized eggs (“people” under the Republican definition) spontaneously abort every year, what obligation will doctors, or for that matter, everyone, have in tracking and reporting whether a woman is carrying a fertilized egg, and is it contemplated that there will be a special law enforcement unit assigned to investigate whether the woman or someone else played a role in causing these deaths or will the regular homicide unit be assigned that task?

        And do not dismiss my questions as ridiculous as they address practical legal matters that “life begins at fertilization” requires. 

        • Gregg Smith

          I will answer, even though I have not yet read the questions. I must first reply to your first paragraph. It has little to do with the Akin controversy. The debate over where life begins is age old. Personally I can’t see where else it can begin unless you redefine “life”. The viable fetus is certainly not dead. Trying to argue it is alive but not a live get a bit confusing.

          • Gregg Smith

            1. The death penalty is damn near impossible to execute (pun intended). Abortion is legal. I think you are being a bit alarmist to suggest ay such thing. If there are actually people who advocate executing those who have a legal procedure then they are the kook fringe. 

            2. An egg is not “people”. But after fertilization it is alive. Spontaneous abortion is not the same as premeditated abortion any more than a heart attack is the same as suicide.

            And yes, I do think the questions are absurd.

          • notafeminista

            Extraordinarily well said!

          • jimino

            So you agree that the words “life begins at fertilization” have nothing to do with the real world or our legal system. 

          • Gregg Smith

            Is that your position? I inferred the opposite.

          • jimino

            It has EVERYTHING to do with Aiken, whose position is that any abortion is the killing of a person and therefore the rules that apply to when killing another is justified should be applied to fertilized eggs.  If you don’t understand this you really are clueless about the issues surrounding this matter.

          • TomK_in_Boston

            It amazes me that anyone can think an egg that has been fertilized for a nanosecond is a human being. OTOH, it amazes me that deniers of Darwin and man-made climate change are taken seriously, so what do I know?

            IMO an egg that has been fertilized for a nanosecond is obviously not a human being, and an 8 mo fetus obviously is a human being, so we just have to draw the line somewhere and stick with it. St Thomas Aquinas said a fetus got a soul in about 3 ms, that’s good enough for me.

          • Gregg Smith

            That about where I am except I don’t know of anyone saying  it’s anything but alive.

          • Bill_GKD

            Actually, there are plenty of people who are saying that a fertilized egg is a full legal person, including Akin and Paul Ryan:

            http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/08/20/712501/paul-ryan-and-todd-akin-partnered-on-radical-personhood-bill-outlawing-abortion-and-many-birth-control-pills/

            There’s this whole personhood movement, which I think that Rand Paul tried to attach to the highway bill in the Senate.

          • Gregg Smith

            I understand but those are legal matters not definitions. TomK did not say “full legal person”, he said “human being”. It’s all hooey, it’s a life.

            If someone kills a pregnant woman they can be charged for two murders depending on the States and period of gestation. The law has played God and arbitrarily drawn a line in the sand. That’s prudent and necessary.

          • Bill_GKD

            I agree that it’s both prudent and necessary, and my concern is that some of the laws proposed,and mostly backed by teh GOP would remove that line and take away the ability of women to control their reproductive lives.

             

          • TomK_in_Boston

            An amoeba is alive, too. I didn’t say anything about “alive”, I said “human being”.

            We don’t lock people up for taking life, we lock them up for taking human life.

          • Gregg Smith

            My point stands either way but I meant to write “a life”.

          • notafeminista

            Like Scot Peterson – convicted of taking 2 lives.

    • jefe68

      I would think that it’s quite obvious that the GOP has been taken over by fanatics.

      • Gregg Smith

        Judging by their legislative votes and proposals, when it comes down to it, the Democrat position is a 15 year old girl can get a taxpayer funded abortion in the eighth month without the consent of her parents. You have a warped view of what a fanatic is.

        • jefe68

          I thought you don’t like having people put words in your mouth. Well one would think you should practice what you preach.
          First off I’m not a democrat. Second trust a fanatic to pull this kind of stunt. Each state has different laws in this regard.

          Not sure where you get 8 months from, more hyperbolic crap from the extremist regressive.
          The GOP party platform is regressive and the party is now run by fanatics, not unlike yourself.

          • Gregg Smith

            What words did I put in who’s mouth? My description of the Democrat position is correct and there are the legislative votes to prove it. I never said you were a Democrat. I simply criticized your definition of “fanatic”. 

            The 8 months represents the 3rd trimester and Democrats have repeatedly voted against the ban on Partial-birth abortion. I think that is a fanatical position. 

          • jefe68

            How convenient that you left out the reason why the Democrats voted this way.
            It’s in extreme cases that this would be used and that would be in the case of a woman’s health at risk in this stage of a pregnancy. You are a real piece of work, just like the nasty republicans you support.

          • Gregg Smith

            Regarding partial-birth abortion the phrase “women’s health at risk” is a complete farce. A total emotional manipulation aimed at the gullible blinded by ideology.

            If you disagree then please answer the following. A partial-birth abortion is turning the fetus around in the womb, delivering it feet first all the way to the head, jamming scissors up through the back of the neck into the skull and sucking the brains out with a vacuum. How can that possibly benefit the health of the mother?

            You probably won’t answer any more than you answered who the victim was in the Duke Lacrosse case. My guess is you’ll just call me a name or two and say I don’t care about women.

  • Pingback: Akin, Ryan, Romney and Women’s Healthcare « FortLeft

  • TomK_in_Boston

    Is Romney an Etchasketch, or is he an Etchasketch? Remember, he’s the nominee of the party that blasted Kerry as a “flipflopper”. I can’t find a word that does justice to this financial con man. “Has no core” is the best I’ve heard.

    See below. Ted K accuses him of being “multiple choice” – no change in that since 1994 – and he passionately promises that he won’t waver or be a multiple choice.

    What he is is a pathological, serial liar.

    1994 – Debate with Sen. Ted Kennedy

    “I believe that abortion should be safe and legal in this country,”Romney said at the time. “I have since the time my mom took that position since she ran in 1970 as a U.S. Senate candidate. I believe that since Roe vs. Wade has been the law for 20 years that we should sustain and support it and I sustain and support that law and the right of a woman to make that choice. And my personal beliefs, like the personal beliefs of other people, should not be brought into a political campaign.”

    Kennedy responded, “I am pro-choice, my opponent is multiple choice.”

    Romney asked for rebuttal time and said, “I have my own beliefs and those beliefs are very dear to me. One of them is that I do not impose my beliefs on other people. Many, many years ago I had a dear, close family relative that was very close to me that passed away from an illegal abortion. It is since that time that my mother and my family have committed to the belief that we can believe as we want but we will not force our beliefs on others on that matter and you will not see me wavering on that or be a multiple choice.”

  • RobertLongView

    How about Swift Boaters Money Man mouthpiece for the 3-Card Monty financial lobby and Ryan, medicine man, snake oil show.  in my humble opinion… .  o yeah, the birther/muslim fanatic fringes…. .

  • estengel

    There seems to be considerable confidence here that Roe v Wade will stand.  Since Jan 22nd, 1973 , when that decision came down, we’ve lost Medicaid funding of abortions, funds for US international agencies that might provide abortions (or even contraception), funding for women in the military who need abortions, and several more heinous federal provisions. Many states have passed restrictive provisions affecting minors, language requiring waiting periods, instruction about abortion, etc., etc.  While many state (and higher courts) continue to strike down these laws, some have not.  Many medical schools do not provide  rotations with instruction on safe abortion procedures.So is Roe v Wade secure?  Maybe….but while abortion may still be legal, it is for many women not available without considerable trauma, red tape and expense.  All women face enough stress with an unexpected or unwanted pregnancy, and it’s tragic that all these restrictions are now part of our health care system.

    • Bill_GKD

      Legislators will continue to try to undermine access since they can’t outlaw the procedure itself.  Mississippi has tried to shut down the 1 place in the state that provides access by placing a new requirement on the doctors, and Virginia changed the standards at the facilities and got many to close.

  • Gregg Smith

    Democrats have added 9 women speakers to their convention. They smell blood and are pandering to the hysteria. Typical. Meanwhile, they say Condi shouldn’t have been ahead of Hillary in being admitted to Augusta. Maybe its racism. They have no problem demonizing women from Ann Romney to Ann Coulter. They were happy to see the entire weight of the federal government being used in an attempt to make Linda Tripp perjure herself in Federal Court. They weren’t all that upset over James Carville’s statement about dragging a $100 bill through a trailer park, regarding Paula Jones. No one cared when Kathleen Wiley’s cat was killed. The rape of Juanita Broderick was excused because Bill is pro-choice. Bill Maher calls Sarah Palin a cunt, no problem. Where is the compassion for young single mothers like Bristol Palin? Democrats don’t care about women they care about ideology.

    • notafeminista

      The first black woman was accepted at Augusta National late last week, hardly a blip on the radar.

      • Bill_GKD

        As a casual golf fan, Augusta changing it’s tune on women took me by surprise.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/JXSANCUDPIKQSPID5KT2U4XK5Y TF

          I thought it was a “natural” response to having their hand forced on the IBM situation.

          IBM has a new CEO, who’s a woman. IBM’s CEO has always been extended an invite to join Augusta.

          These two facts cannot have continued, as they are in direct contradiction with each other.

          They found an elegant enough way out, seeing as they invited Rice. They also accepted a high-powered businesswoman from SC, who seems like the kind of person who has a lot of business cards from golfers. All in all, a good fit, methinks.

      • Mike_Card

        Yes, Condi was the first black woman, but she was one of the two first women; the invitations to women was far more notable than their races.  I suppose it was hardly a blip if you’re totally unaware of the day’s news.

      • J__o__h__n

        It is great that they are no longer sixty years behind the times but admission to elite golf clubs does nothing for the majority of women.

      • Regular_Listener

         Who cares?  Golf should not be a major spectator sport any more than ping pong or checkers.  How could anybody sit around watching golf?  Yawn. 

    • Bill_GKD

      I don’t think that the Democrats are pandering to hysteria.  Theyy’re pandering to women, and they’ve got a real point.  There’s a pretty clear difference between where the two parties stand abortion.  If one is pro-choice, and if that’s a major factor in one’s vote choice, then there’s more than enough ammo for the Democrats to use against the Republicans.  The former is generally more friendly towards the position that a woman and her doctor should make that choice, while the latter is generally in favor of the government making that choice for her.

      • Gregg Smith

        They did not add the speaker until Akin’s debacle. Who in the GOP has not condemned Akin? Or pundits not in the GOP? Even Rush and Ann Coulter. Yet all we will hear from Dems is the GOP all think like Akin. It’s not honest.

        • Bill_GKD

          It’s not totally honest, but neither is a lot of rhetoric coming out of the GOP.  On the other hand, Akin’s support for abortion in few or no instances is held by quite a few in the GOP, and the party is calling for a Constitutional amendment in it’s national party platform.  His “legitimate rape” comments have been condemned, but has the party of it’s pundits been condemning his view that the government should be making that decision for a woman and/or her doctor or partner.  I don’t think so.  It may not be all Republicans, but many do hold this view.

        • Pietro Di Zanno

           Sir, the way you speak, you are probably being paid by the republican party in some way. people do not normally have such thoughts, without an agenda. good luck, you are confused.

  • Mike_Card

    How much is Akin holding out for?  5 million?  20?  He has all but conceded that he won’t win the election, he’s just holding out for his payday, which the Rove faction will easily cough up.  The only question to be resolved is the settling price.

    This has nothing to do with religious beliefs or ethical considerations or even politics; this is what Romney understands:  deals.

  • Pingback: JO MANNIES PROVIDES AKIN ANALYSIS FOR NPR’S ON POINT | Beyond November

  • JohnGraff

    “There is no doubt that former Gov. Mitt Romney is anti-choice.

    In 2007, former Gov. Romney said, ‘I will be a pro-life president.’
    He has spoken out against Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court case that recognized a woman’s Constitutional right to legal abortion.
    In discussing how he would address the country’s debt, former Gov. Romney responded, ‘Of course you get rid of Obamacare, that’s the easy one, but there are others,’ he said. ‘Planned Parenthood, we’re going to get rid of that.’

    Rep. Paul Ryan has a long anti-choice record from his years in Congress and has never voted pro-choice.

    During his time in the House, Rep. Ryan has cast 59 votes on abortion and other reproductive-rights issues. All of these votes were anti-choice.

    In 2009, Rep. Ryan voted for the notorious Stupak abortion-coverage ban.” 

    http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/elections/2012/gop-presidential-candidates/

  • Gregg Smith

    When do we get a show on a serial abuser of women giving the keynote speech at the Democrat Convention?

    • jimino

      Maybe they can couple it with one that covers who will be addressing the Republican Convention and giving the speech that fleshes out their “life begins at fertilization” platform by informing the world just how long they intend to put women who get abortions and those health care professionals who aid them in prison (or maybe it will be the death penalty they seem so fond of), and how they intend to investigate the millions of “deaths” that occur every year by those suspicious so-called spontaneous abortions.  I would look forward to such a program.

      • Gregg Smith

        I already addressed those points. Seriously set it aside for a moment, with all the talk about Republican’s so called “war on women” don’t you find it ironic that a serial abuser of women is so loved by Democrats? I do. 

        • Ray in VT

          What Democrat serially abuses women?

          • Gregg Smith

            Bill Clinton. He is giving the keynote address at the convention. Ray, you may disagree but the list and testimony is very long. The history is clear. I am not trying to exaggerate and think it’s a legitimate question given the political climate.

            http://www.alamo-girl.com/0262.htm

          • Ray in VT

            I’m not familiar with Alamo-girl.com, but those are some pretty serious charges.  Three allegations (?) of rape right at the top of the page.  And exactly how many times has former President Clinton been convicted, or even charged?  Exactly what evidence has ever been brought against him for these alleged crimes in a court of law, not in the court of right wing opinion?

            I notice that most of the citations are from places like Newsmax, which has about as much credibility as the door on a bathroom stall.

            Now, I think that if you want to bring up allegations against the former President, then fine.  Although I think that you are purposefully attempting to change the subject away from the fact the a sitting GOP member of Congress, who sits on the Committee and Space, Science, and Technology, is apparently ignorant of basic human reproductive biology.  I also wonder how people who believe that the GOP is the party of small government and getting government out of our lives square the circle of the GOP pushing legislation that will limit the ability of women and or their partners or doctors from making the reproductive choices that are best for them.  How do you square that with your libertarian values?

          • Gregg Smith

            I figured the link would get your attention. I can’t vouch for a lot of it. I have not seen any analogous list with any other President. It can’t all be false and I suspect much is true. But I have seen interviews with one of the rape victims, Juanita Broderick. she is very credible and much was co-oberated. I do know Geniffer Flowers was real but the only abuse there was against Hillary. He groped Kathleen Wiley when she came to him for help after her husbands death. When she threatened to blow the whistle her cat was killed. He settled the Paula Jones case for big money and there is plenty of evidence he told her to “kiss it”. As a matter of fact a Clinton appointed Federal judge allowed the Monica Lewinski evidence to be admissible in the Paula Jones trial because he had such a track record. He certainly abused Linda Tripp and  Betty Curie although it wasn’t sexual. He lied to his entire cabinet before lying to us. All of it showed an appalling lack of respect for women.

            There have been books written and movies made. There is secret service testimony. And we know the Monica Lewinski saga happened. And yes, I call that abuse. He was a dirty old man in a position of extreme power preying on an intern. 

            Akin made a stupid comment and the entire GOP is being painted with it despite universal condemnation. Look at the outrage (valid) over Sandra Fluke. How many times in recent history have you heard that Republicans are waging a war against women? I find it offensive. Honestly Ray, if you can’t admit there is a double standard and rampant hypocrisy then at least acknowledge the irony.

            My libertarian values are why I am pro-choice. But I draw the line at partial birth abortion, not requiring parental consent and taxpayer funding.

          • jimino

            Akin’s “mistake” was letting the proverbial hem of the slip to be seen by the general public.  He and most elected republicans have taken the public position that women who get an abortion under any circumstances, should be  treated as a murderer.  Yet they are never called to task for the practical ramifications of their dog whistle utterances. They are the true Big Brother in our midst as anyone who is a real libertarian would recognize.

          • Gregg Smith

            I hear you but I don’t buy it. It won’t happen, it can’t happen and few want the extreme you describe.This is faux outrage. If Biden had said it no one would notice. I don’t think this election is about abortion and there sure isn’t a war against women. It’s Jobs and the economy.

          • Ray in VT

            You say that you suspect that it is true, but do you have evidence that our former President is a rapist?

            I can recognize the irony of having someone with a record or serial philandering on the ticket when women’s issues are being raised, however, I think that there’s little enough evidence to suggest that he is a serial rapist, or that he had a body farm, or most of the litany of other things that the right tried to smear him with during his Presidency.  You said that he was a dirty old man for his conduct regarding Ms. Lewinsky, but how do you feel about Mr. Gingrich’s affairs, including one with a much younger staffer, during the 1990s?  I always found it ironic that the GOP was trying to nail Clinton to the wall while their top guy was screwing around with a staffer.

            In the grand scheme of things, I don’t think that their behavior is altogether uncommon.  There’s a very long history of men, and especially powerful men, and women as well of course, messing around.  It’s not right, but a lot have and will continue to do it.

            Even I don’t think that most Republicans are ignorant of basic biology as Akin, but if this views regarding abortion are so uncommon in the GOP, then why is it a party platform plank that we should have a Constitutional amendment to ban it?  Why have some members in Congress, including Mr. Akin and Mr. Ryan co sponsored legislation stating the a fertilized egg is a legal person from the moment of conception, and what is the logical conclusion if one then takes a step to end a legal person?  This view seems to hardly be extreme in the GOP.

          • Gregg Smith

            I called him a serial abuser of women not a serial rapist. Watch the interview with Broderick.

            Sorry man, I played music on the road and stayed monogamous for the last 30 years, I don’t accept that most men are like this. Any man (or woman) who cheats is a sleaze ball. Any man who preys on vulnerable women is a scumbag.Any man that does it with reckless disregard and leaves a path of emotional destruction over and over is a serial abuser of
             women.
             

          • Gregg Smith

            Here is the interview I saw with Juanita Broderick (mentioned below). It was on Dateline. She was referred to as “Jane Doe #5″ which speaks volumes to my point.

            http://www.veoh.com/watch/e140608AFtR5P3Q?h1=Victim+of+Clinton+rape

            I could not find a video but here are excerpts from the 60 minutes interview with Kathleen Wiley.

            http://www.coffeeshoptimes.com/willey60.html

  • StilllHere

    This is much ado about nothing.

    • Duras

      I hope you realize that the word “nothing” in Skakespeare often punningly refers to a woman’s vagina, including the tittle you referenced. 

      I have not known you to be a cleaver one, but if you meant the pun like Shakespeare does, then good one.  But knowing your ideological background and the nature of this article, you probably wrote that line mindlessly like everything else you write. 

      Nonetheless, Bravo!

  • Regular_Listener

    Actually, the conservatives do have a point here.  Not that I agree with their positions on abortion, but the definition of rape has been steadily expanding in recent years.  The president is wrong on this.  There is child rape, statutory rape… there are clearly some who would like to see the definition of it grow and grow.  I think the word gets used a little too freely.  But the views of Akin and other anti-abortion crusaders are pretty far out there, and as the doctor pointed out, do not seem to be backed up by any serious studies.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1205332288 Laurie Beth Brunner

      The official definition has expanded because SOME of us, at least, have evolved to realize that there is a lot more unwanted sexual contact forced on people than society has previously been willing to admit exists.

      In the end, the people who have experienced it get to define what happened to them.

    • jefe68

      Anytime a woman says no and the other person forces themselves on them it’s an assault. If it goes into forcible sex it’s rape, period.

      I’m not talking about someone making a pass here, so lets get real with this subject and stop with the hair splitting. 

      Having known women who have been attacked I can assure you it’s no picnic.

      • Gregg Smith

        No one disagrees but I don’t think that was Regular Listeners point. Rape is horrendous. Awful. That is why falsely accusing a a man of rape is also horrendous yet it happens. Remember Tawana Brawley? 

      • http://www.facebook.com/glenn.monson Glenn Monson

        i dont think anyone is disputing that jefe, but there is a distinction these days in what they legally call rape, i know a 18 year old boy that got his 17 year old girlfriend pregnant, it was consensual, they want to keep the baby, but the parents are trying to get the boy convicted of statutory rape and want the baby aborted and make medicare pay for it, the ,main point for all this is should we as a society be paying for it? and second i find it morally objectionable to destroy this boys and the babies life because someone in congress decided the cut off age should be 18, and even though its not politically correct to mention it lets not forget there are women who cry rape when it isnt
         

    • Duras

      Was Akin talking abut statutory rape?  Is statutory rape not “legitimate rape”?   Yes, there are degrees of “rape offenses” to what one can be convicted of, but was that what Akin was talking about.  And do those laws relate to the conversation on abortion?
       
      I don’t see woman whose body has been sexual coerced and conceaved a child not willingly or unawaringly but against her will can be precieved as illegitimate rape? 

      The legitmacy of a body being coerced is not in question by Akin.  Akin is saying that even though a body is being forced to submit, it is somehow an illegitimate rape if the body accepts the sperm.  And that is why we shouldn’t let rape victims take control of their own body afterwards.
       
       

  • http://twitter.com/MiaisAwesome Mia Bostic

    The views the republicans hold are so outdated and ridiculous, how can people who are so misinformed and uneducated be creating the laws we live by?! This is absurd.

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    nice bateau neck formal dress,discount now http://queen-dresses.com/neckline/bateau-neck-dress

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