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August 10, 2012 at 10:00 AM
Week In The News: Truth Battles, Temple Shooting, Mars Landing

Truth and campaigning. A temple shooting. Cheers for a landing on Mars.

In this image released by NASA on Wednesday, Aug. 8, 2012, an image showing the heat shield of NASA's Curiosity rover, obtained during descent to the surface of Mars. The image was obtained by the Mars Descent Imager instrument known as MARDI and shows the 15-foot diameter heat shield when it was about 50 feet from the spacecraft. (AP/NASA)

In this image released by NASA on Wednesday, Aug. 8, 2012, an image showing the heat shield of NASA’s Curiosity rover, obtained during descent to the surface of Mars. The image was obtained by the Mars Descent Imager instrument known as MARDI and shows the 15-foot diameter heat shield when it was about 50 feet from the spacecraft. (AP/NASA)

Truth and campaigning, front and center this week.  Or maybe, campaigning and lies.  Everybody’s claiming the other guy is doing it.  Americans, stuck in the middle of the mud sling.

In Oak Creek, Wisconsin, another mass murder.  At a Sikh temple.  They’ve taken it with dignity, but the pain is terrible.

On Mars, an American rover lands again.  Mission control goes nuts.  The great show goes on at the Olympics.  Usain Bolt, US women’s soccer, the sprinter on carbon fiber legs.  And the US has its hottest July ever.  Hello?

This hour, On Point:  our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

- Tom Ashbrook

Guests

Laura Meckler, White House correspondent for the Wall Street Journal.

Gideon Rachman, Chief foreign affairs correspondent for the Financial Times.

From Tom’s Reading List

The Washington Post “In the ad, released Tuesday by the super PAC Priorities USA and titled’Understands,’ Soptic makes his most heated claim to date, suggesting a link between his wife’s death five years ago and the Bain takeover. ‘When Mitt Romney and Bain closed the plant, I lost my health care, and my family lost their health care,’ Soptic says in the minute-long spot. ‘And a short time after that, my wife became ill . . . she passed away in 22 days.’

The New York Times “To some who track the movements of white supremacist groups, the violence was not a total surprise. Mr. Page, 40, had long been among the hundreds of names on the radar of organizations monitored by the Southern Poverty Law Center because of his ties to the white supremacist movement and his role as the leader of a white-power band called End Apathy. The authorities have said they are treating the shooting as an act of domestic terrorism.”

The Los Angeles Times “Several high-resolution images from Mars were released by NASA on Wednesday. Black-and-white photos stitched together from  Curiosity’s cameras show gravelly terrain with what looks like well-cut, pyramidal mountains in the background — the kind of terrain found in the Mojave Desert. ‘You’ve been hearing us saying, “Just wait till you see the good stuff.” Well, this is the good stuff,’ said Mike Malin, lead scientist for the rover’s MARDI descent imager.”

 
  • JGC

    Comments change policy:  for sure it is much more difficult to get on to register a  comment.  

  • Ed75

    The Philippines have been fighting during the last few years over the decriminalization of abortion in the first trimester. It looks like it might now pass, and the president is ready to sign it. So what happens? Manilla receives so much rain they’re a ‘waterworld’. Disaster always happens when countries consider decriminalizing abortion.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003176132796 Joe Makela

      get a grip – Mother Nature.

    • sickofthechit

       I’m sure we would all appreciate a little guidance here.  So exactly what kind of behaviors result in what kind of retribution? 

      Label me, hairy palms and dimming eyesight.

    • Ray in VT

      I don’t even know quite how to respond to this, Ed.  When I was growing up I was sure that humanity had moved past the period of time when we attributed natural disasters to the actions of an angry deity.  It was spoken of in the Dark Ages, as the flagellants flogged themselves in an attempt to draw the anger of God away from the community and onto themselves, thereby alleviating the horrors of the Black Death.  It was spoken of in the Greek myths.  But certainly, with the rise of modern science we had advanced beyond that?

      Apparently not.  One need only look at Pat Robertson’s declarations that that Pennsylvania town would be wiped out for taking creationism out of the curriculum, not to mention his blaming the Haitian earthquake on a pact with the Devil.  Tell me, if you would, what great calamity the United States, as well as the rest of the industrial world, suffered from daring to discuss the decriminalization of abortion decades ago?

      • Ed75

        Well, I wouldn’t say it’s the response of an angry deity, but a kind warning, like ‘Please don’t go there. I will have to withdraw my protection from your country.’ It seems clear that God can use the created world, among other ways, to convey messages.

        In the US abortion was decriminalized on Monday, Jan. 22, 1973. The day before, Sunday, ex-President Lyndon Johnson died, taking it off the headlines. On Friday of that week the US signed a cease-fire in Viet Nam, the only surrender the US ever signed.

        NYC was the center of the abortion industry, and we suffered the greatest crime wave we’ve seen (in the 1970s), and almost went bankcrupt. We took the motto ‘The Big Apple’, and, indeed, we had taken on the big sin.

        The president at the time of Roe (Nixon) was forced to resign, the only time in American history.

        In Mexico they decriminalized abortion during the first trimester a few years ago, with much opposition. Since then the drug violence in Mexico has gone completely out of control.

        In Portugal one half of the country supported decriminalization, the other didn’t. The half that supported it – an earthquake struck there.

        And with the HHS mandate we stand to massively increase abortion in our country.

        • J__o__h__n

          This is supposed to be the week in the news not supernatural nonsense.

        • keltcrusader

          Drought maps show devastated areas mostly centered around the bible belt states - what could they possibly be doing wrong I wonder?

          • Ray in VT

            That is interesting.  Vermont generally comes in as the least religious state, yet we have very few natural disasters, dangerous animals or major social problems.

          • keltcrusader

            Ray, Vt is an absolutely beautiful state. We just came back from Mad River Valley and had a wonderful vacation (again)! After a spring of heavy flooding, Irene did quite a lot of damage in VT in 2011. To say that natural weather/climate related disasters is a sign of god’s unhappiness with a particular state or region is ludacris. These thing happen all over and to all manner of people. It is the way of the Earth and sometimes natural disasters happen.

          • Ray in VT

            I think that it’s pretty great here, but, then again, I’m a native with generations invested in the well being of it’s land and people.

            Irene was very bad in places, although there was very little damage where I live.  Many comparisons were made to the 1927 flood, which appears to have been caused by a similar weather system.

            Ultimately natural disasters happen.  They always have and they always will.  Some areas are more prone to them than others, and often one can see the causes and likelihood of them.  For instance, Manila has been plagued with terrible floods for at least the last 60 years, and one does not need to consult the morals of the populace in order to divine their origin.  It’s also not a mystery as to why New Orleans is prone to flooding or why San Francisco is threatened by earthquakes.  It’s simple geography.

        • Ray in VT

          I would have to disagree with your last sentence from your first paragraph.  I don’t believe in supernatural forces shaping or influences natural events.

          I think that most of your examples are weak to say the least when looking at causation not just correlation.  For instance, the Vietnam cease fire.  That had been in the works for a long time.  It had been realized by many, probably since Tet, that we couldn’t “win” that war.  We didn’t understand the nature of the conflict and we supported terrible regimes in the south.  The NYC crime wave?  Certainly that couldn’t be chalked up to the actions of individual humans.  The resignation of Nixon?  Again, certainly that wasn’t due to his own actions.  Same with Mexico.  Certainly the violence isn’t due to drug gangs and the inability of the government to keep it under control.  How would abortion being illegal in Mexico end the drug violence.  Portugal I can’t speak to, but certainly the earthquake couldn’t be due to the plate tectonics, and I assume that you aren’t referring to the horrific earthquake of 1755.

          Which HHS are you referring to, and how do you think that it will create a massive new number of abortions in America?

          • AnitaC1040

            You are a very patient person replying in such detail to this dingbat. ;-)

        • Yar

          Ed, I think you have created god in your image.  You assign acts to God that you would do.  All I can say, is thank God you are not god.

        • AnitaC1040

          I am sure I can find random acts of kindness in those years as well. Does that make “God” on the other side?  Please, stop pretending to speak for God. It really is blasphemy.

    • MrNutso

      I thought this kind of thing happened by tricking Mother Nature into using Chiffon instead of butter?

      • AnitaC1040

        LOL!!!  OMG, funny guy!  :-)

    • keltcrusader

      You know, I was thinking that Climate Change could be your god’s way of telling us to stop polluting the Earth. What do you think?

  • Ed75

    A judge in Denver gave a business (Hercules) run by a devout Catholic family (who couldn’t pay for what the HHS Mandate requires) a temporary injunction against the HHS Mandate, and might make it permanent in a later decision. It’s the first decision where the claim to violation of religious liberty was adjuticated, let’s hope it’s a sign of things to come.

    • sickofthechit

      So then every business that doesn’t want to do right by its employees declares itself religiously affiliated and we have even more uninsured?  Wow! That does seem great, if your greedy and uncaring.  Iis that what a Christian is?

      • Don_B1

        It appears that there are a lot of fundamentalist “Christian” churches that fit that description. They want to be able to force the needy to adopt their approach to religion by being the “providers” when the poor are in need.

    • J__o__h__n

      Why are devout Christians naming their business after a pagan? 

    • Mike_Card

      Never heard of “religious liberty,” only freedom from a government-established religion.  So your solution to climate change is to deny health care and allow adults to rape children–have I got that right?

  • Ed75

    The Administration keeps asking for Governor Romney’s tax returns. Yet more questions have come up about the president’s time at Columbia, since no one seems to remember him. Let’s make a deal – one records for other records.

    • sickofthechit

       Done!

    • Mouse_2012

      I heard President Obama’s real name is actually “Kal-El” along with his father Obama  Jor-El Sr.

      • AnitaC1040

        OMG, Mouse, you are so funny…

    • Don_B1

      Read Mariss’s book on Obama and he had no problem, NONE, finding many people who knew Obama at each stage of his life. Of course ideologues have well known abilities to skip over facts that contradict their ideological  beliefs, so you might need someone less ideological to read those parts to you and get you to acknowledge each fact again and again over the next few months on a daily or more frequent basis.

      • AnitaC1040

        That crappy “shinny keys” excuse for not giving up his tax returns.  Stay on point will you. Romney’s father gave up 12 years and insisted if you run for president you need to disclose your tax returns.  As far as the crap the Right wing is trying to peddle.  You obviously think our intellegence agencies can’t do their job since they are the ones who do background checks.

  • Joseph_Wisconsin

    New details on Ohio Republicans
    attempting to suppress voting by Democrats and minorities for the
    2012 election. Different access to voting in Republican districts
    versus Democratic districts.
    http://leanforward.msnbc.com/_news/2012/08/09/13205961-ohio-lawmaker-on-voting-restrictions-jim-crow-has-been-resurrected?lite
     

    • Mouse_2012

       Ma Republicans are attempting to suppress votes cause they pissed people on welfare can vote.

      http://www.boston.com/news/politics/articles/2012/08/10/massachusetts_the_only_state_that_agreed_to_send_mass_mailings_in_the_wake_of_lawsuits/

      • Don_B1

        Scott Brown admitted that a large voter turnout would not be good for his reelection; then he got really bent (along with his sycophant Boston media right-wing talking heads) about the MA welfare department having to publicize the right of welfare recipients to register to vote at Welfare offices.

        But Ohio allowing Republican districts to have vote casting at early and late times of day while restricting Democratic districts to 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. time periods (and not for anyone the weekend before 6 November) has to be illegal (except in Justice Scalia’s twisted mind, perhaps).

        • Mouse_2012

          Michael Gram was all over it the last two days.

          As in most cases republicans attempt to supress the votes.

          • Don_B1

            The past chairman of the Republican Party in Florida just ADMITTED it! And that Pennsylvania legislator admitted that their voter ID law would keep Democrats from voting this year.

          • Mike_Card

            The Speaker of the PA legislature BRAGGED about it!

  • NewtonWhale

    Mitt Romney Started Bain Capital With Money From Families Tied To Death Squads

    The connection between the families involved with Bain’s founding and those who financed death squads was made by the Boston Globe in 1994 and the Salt Lake Tribune in 1999. This election cycle, Salon first raised the issue in January, and theLos Angeles Times filled out more of the record earlier this month.There is no shortage of unsavory links. Even the Tribune article referred to by the Romney campaign reports that “about $6.5 million of $37 million that established the company came from wealthy El Salvadoran families linked to right-wing death squads.”
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/08/mitt-romney-death-squads-bain_n_1710133.html 

    • William

       One of Obama’s biggest supporters is Bill Ayers. A terrorist from the 1960′s. To this day, Ayers thinks he did nothing wrong and “wished he had done more”.

      • Mouse_2012

         because we all know Ayers is far worst than actually death squads.

      • Ray in VT

        Can you provide us all with a list of confirmed domestic terrorist acts that Ayers actually participated in and how many people he is directly responsible for killing?

        I agree with mouse on this one.  Comparing any actions of Bill Ayers, or really all domestic terrorist groups from the last 100 years, with the actions of the Central American groups, including the ones that were supported by the U.S. government under Ronald Reagan, that operated in the 1980s is so completely false in terms of scope as to be laughable.

      • Don_B1

        Can you, Wiliam, give any idea of just how many people Ayers could even INFLUENCE? The DONALD (Trump) has more followers than Ayers could in his dreams.

        But little things like that seem so big in your mind, or maybe you hope that throwing the name around might actually scare someone. That person has to be some kind of timid mouse that probably would be scared just to vote.

  • Mouse_2012

    The Mar Landing was pretty sweet

  • Mouse_2012

    “Truth and campaigning”

    Face it Republicans are habitual liars and one can’t really blame since they have a crappy product there selling. Not to say that Democrats don’t lie or distort but republicans are just far better at it.

    With the fake fair and balance going on Republican are allowed to get away with it far to often and cry about it even more. As if the obama ad falls to the level of the girl with flowers.

     

  • Mouse_2012

    Also I noted this on your comment policy change as I will here. I had a certain not only harass me but literally attempted to stalk me with all types of threats and incitement to violence. I have documented this and sent gave the information to the proper authority.

    What’s onpoint policy on protecting personal information or Facebook account information? Or it’s policies on threatening posters?

  • Ray in VT

    Dairy farmers, still recovering from the drop in milk prices a couple of years ago that saw prices just over half of the cost of production, are now being hit with higher grain prices in the wake of the drought.  Prices are up somewhere near 33% over the past few weeks, and this will certainly drive more farms out of business.

    • BHA_in_Vermont

       And let’s not forget a big percentage of the corn being grown is being turned into ethanol.

  • J__o__h__n

    Poor Rafalca didn’t do well at the Olympics so it is going to be shipped home on top of Mitt’s jet instead of being allowed inside.  Don’t worry he likes being in the pastic container as much as Seamus did. 

  • Mouse_2012

    Interesting read for others about the “sic” liberal bias in the media

    GOP voice qouted 44% more than democrats

    Most outlets unbalance in their negative coverage
    http://www.4thestate.net/liberal-media-bias/

    Republicans get more coverage From January 1 until April 10 (the day Santorum dropped out), 37% of
    election coverage came from Republican newsmakers and just 10% came from
    Democratic newsmakers (excluding statements from candidates). Since
    April 11th, Republican VoiceShare has decreased to 28% and Democratic
    VoiceShare has increased to 20%. While the gap has gotten smaller, the
    ratio of coverage is still noticeably skewed toward Republicans.

    http://www.4thestate.net/republicans-getting-more-coverage-than-democrats/

    NPR Amplifies Romney More Than Obama

     

    • Brandstad

      According to an analysis by the Media Research Center, the 21 newscasts of the big three networks between July 25 and July 31 showed that the coverage of Romney’s trip was 86% negative. 

       Coverage in 2008 of Obama’s pre election overseas trip were nearly 100% positive, sycophantic even, despite the few and sundry gaffes he committed at the time all of which went practically ignored.

      • Mouse_2012

        Media Research Center is not only a rightwing org but funded by rightwingers.
        Not only it’s not peer reviewed and omits information that prove it’s wrong while at the same time relying on rightwing sources with little no proof to make it’s claim.
        See below

        http://sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Media_Research_Center

      • BHA_in_Vermont

         Couldn’t POSSIBLY be because Romney stuck his foot in it on several occasions.

  • Shag_Wevera

    The following is a tribute to the bygone humor of Henny Youngman;

    Pick Paul Ryan for your VP candidate, please!

  • Shag_Wevera

    I’d like to know how my fellow posters feel about the new requirements by “Disqus” in order to post in the comments section…

    • keltcrusader

      Don’t like it :(

    • Ray in VT

      It doesn’t bother me.  The way that I am set up was already in line with the new requirements.

    • Brandstad

      What new requirements?

      • MrNutso

        You have to register or use your FB account.

        • Brandstad

          That happend 6 months ago…

          • adks12020

            Not for everyone.  I just had to register for the first time this morning

          • BHA_in_Vermont

             And I yesterday. Been posting as a guest for months.

    • http://freeourfreemarkets.org/ Steve Banicki

      Please explain what you mean. I am having trouble posting with links.

  • http://freeourfreemarkets.org/ Steve Banicki

    We let Goldman Sachs go, but arrest an employee for taking secrets from Goldman. Who owns Justice?
    http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/08/09/ex-goldman-programmer-is-arrested-again/?comments#permid=23

    • Brandstad

      Confused Why Goldman Will Face No Criminal Charges? Here’s Why

      Today we learned courtesy of Goldman’s 10-Q, that the US justice department willnot press criminal charges against Goldman Sachs. This, despite Senator Carl “Shitty Deal” Levin, in one of the most bombastic kangaroo court spectacles on live TV ever, asking for a criminal investigation after the subcommittee he led spent years looking into Goldman, and in which he said Goldman misled Congress and investors (and according to which billions in fraudulent RMBS misrepresentations are all still only Fabrice Tourre’s fault, at that time under 30 years old). And so we pose the same answer, and provide the same anwer, as yesterday, only flipped around: “Confused Why Goldman Will Face No Criminal Charges? Here’s Why.”

      • http://freeourfreemarkets.org/ Steve Banicki

        exactly

  • Brandstad

    Tom,

    Can you talk some today about the following news story out this morning?

    How will this affect Obama’s support in the black community 85% or more blacks voted for Obama last election but about 75% of blacks are against gay marriage. 

    A draft of the Democratic Party’s official party platform includes support for gay marriage for the first time, months after President Barack Obama said he was in favor of same-sex unions.

    • Michiganjf

      Not everyone is a moron who decides the important issues facing our nation by whether or not the candidate sympathisizes with their HOMOPHOBIA.

      • Brandstad

        You are correct,  according to research, about 25% of black voters match your insulting statement.

    • Ray in VT

      It’s an interesting dynamic.  You have much of the African American community that is fairly socially conservative, and I’ve heard a good amount regarding the general hostility from within the community towards homosexuality.

      Ultimately, though, I don’t think that it will do much to either compel African American voters to stay home of vote for Mitt Romney.

  • Michiganjf

    Too bad the Olympics don’t last until November!!

    It’s been AWESOME not having to groan at Romney insulting Americans with idiotic fabrications and wishy-washy, sycophantic toadying.

    Thanks Olympians, for the FANTASTIC performances and the two week break!!

    • MrNutso

      AT least the Olympics could have been scheduled over the 2 weeks of the party conventions.

    • Brandstad

      At least Romney supporters haven’t earned 4 pinocchios in multiple advertisements because of the outright lies.  They also haven’t accused him of killing someone 7 years after the candidate last had any contact or relation to the woman’s husband.

      • Michiganjf

        Go back to Mexican Druglord conspiracies and getting probed by illegal aliens.

        PLAY AGAIN.

      • adks12020

        actually the Romney campaign has earned 4 pinnoccios … both campaigns seem to be quite good at making things up or stretching the truth but if selectively choosing what to hear makes you happy go for it. http://www.npr.org/2012/08/08/158433077/finding-the-truth-in-politics .. Fact Checker from the Washington Post stating exactly that.

    • J__o__h__n

      It was nice when Mitt was insulting the English instead and giving us a break from it.

    • Don_B1

      Note also that 2/3 of the 39 gold medals (as of this morning) were won by WOMEN, who were able to develop their athletic skills (and other educational achievements) through Title IX, which celebrates its 40th anniversary this year.

      GO WOMEN!

  • Brandstad

    HIGH-RANKING MEXICAN DRUG CARTEL MEMBER MAKES EXPLOSIVE ALLEGATION: ‘FAST AND FURIOUS’ IS NOT WHAT YOU THINK IT IS

    A high-ranking Mexican drug cartel operative currently in U.S. custody is making startling allegations that the failed federal gun-walking operation known as “Fast and Furious” isn’t what you think it is.

    It wasn’t about tracking guns, it was about supplying them — all part of an elaborate agreement between the U.S. government and Mexico’s powerful Sinaloa Cartel to take down rival cartels.

    The explosive allegations are being made by Jesus Vicente Zambada-Niebla, known as the Sinaloa Cartel’s “logistics coordinator.” He was extradited to the Chicago last year to face federal drug charges.

    • Mike_Card

      He was talking to you.

  • adks12020

    Harry Reid is an idiot for making that remark.

    • Shag_Wevera

      Or he is a loyal political ally doing the bidding of a sitting president…

      • adks12020

        I really don’t think so.  I think he put his foot in his mouth and I’d imagine Pres. Obama is pissed.

      • Mike_Card

        I don’t know–but it was interesting to read a comment that John McCain’s people had looked at 23 years’ worth of tax returns during the vetting in 2008…and finally chose Palin.

    • adks12020

      If I were President Obama I’d want to slap him in the face. I’m sure he was sitting in the White House shaking his head and saying “what is this guy trying to do to me?”

  • Michiganjf

    Poor Brandstad…

     He spent the last 5 years denying climate change by quoting Richard Muller.

     What are you going to do now, Brandy?

    • Brandstad

      NASA’s James Hansen’s latest claims dismantled: ‘This is nothing but a political ploy from a man who has abandoned any pretext of professionally done science in favor of activism’

      • Don_B1

        Right; James Hansen has been willing to stand on his results and he has yet to be shown in error! There is no “dismantling;” some climate scientists that believe in climate change due to the increased CO2 emissions from burning fossil fuels are reluctant to endorse his findings in full until more scientists provide duplication of his results, but that is just an indication of the basic conservative and caution that most scientists believe in.

        It is actually an even stronger endorsement of the climate change that the average American can see in the current weather extremes and can accept as the truth about the climate changes that are in store for the world in the future if major changes in energy sources are not made at an accelerated speed from that of today. It does not mean that next year will be hotter even than this year, but, if the Pacific Oscillation does move to an El Niño state, there may be some rain relief this fall but next summer may follow the same trend that produced the then record heat of 1998, which so many deniers have misused to create the appearance of temperature decline since then.

        Start insulating your homes and painting your roofs white against the heat of the next years to come!

    • Brandstad

      Warmist scientist sickened by NASA’s Hansen’s latest claims: ‘The damage to the credibility of my profession is huge’

    • Brandstad

      Hansen’s ‘science’ shredded: ‘Instead the actual temperatures have been colder than in any of his three scenarios, including C, which assumed falling CO2 levels!

    • Brandstad

      New paper finds sea level rise has greatly decelerated over past 10 years: ‘Paper published in Coastal Engineering finds ‘[sea level rise] reduction is even more pronounced during last 5 years’The restuls are ‘clearly the opposite of what is being predicted by the models’

  • http://www.facebook.com/blucaller Gary Stewart

    We do not know that Harry Reid is lying.  Why doesn’t the media do it’s job and get some leaks of it’s own, or demand the tax returns.  Journalists ask us to accept their leaks all the time.

  • http://twitter.com/JHWillson John Willson

    You need to discuss the email revelations that the Obama Administration was responsible for the destruction of 20,000 Delphi Salaried Retiree’s pensions.

    For a president who trumpets his auto bailout, transparency and the middle class the actions and silence are shameful.

    • Brandstad

      This is a huge story but the mainstream media including NPR will not touch it.

      • http://www.facebook.com/stewsburntmonkey David Stewart

        A largely fictitious story…  I’m glad you find it entertaining at least.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

    On Romney tax returns, a typical conservative response to the government stomping all over our rights and privacy has been “what’s the big deal if you have nothing to hide…”

    • Brandstad

      Why hasn’t Obama released his college records if there is nothing to hide?

      • jefe68

        Yawn.

      • Joshua Aldrich

        I get sick of hearing this crap and I just paste this
        http://factcheck.org/2012/07/obamas-sealed-records/ every time I see it now.  You’re an idiot and you should feel bad for being such an idiot.  

        • OnPointComments

          Did you even read the page you linked to?  President Obama has refused to release his college records from Occidental, Columbia, and Harvard Law.

          • Mike_Card

            That’s the silliest thing I’ve ever read on this discussion board.  Take a bow.

        • Don_B1

          Both of them are basically shameless, going from one false claim to the next or just repeating it over and over.

    • Brandstad

      Why hasn’t Obama released the Fast & Furious documents if there isn’t anything to hide?

  • J__o__h__n

    Harry Reid is grandstanding but that doesn’t mean Mitt shouldn’t release his tax returns.  The Republicans have been doing sleazy things for decades and we are supposed to be outraged when the Democrats join them?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

    Politicians lying – and during an election year – who would have thought this could ever happen? I’m shocked.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/MN2U7WJRLKFZBADS2REU45PFCI John

    if NASA only show those pictures to the world like the face on mars, glass tubes on mars or pyramids on mars.

  • Davesix6

    Let’s see if the Press, our so called 4th Estate holds Obama and his campaign responsibile for the Priorities USA ad that falsly accuses Romney of being responsible for the death of a former Steel Workers wife?
    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/08/pro-obama-super-pac-defends-controversial-ad/

    The campaign and White House spokespersons have claimed no ties to the Super PAC yet Soptic had already appeared in an Obama campaign ad.
    http://www.businessinsider.com/joe-soptic-romney-obama-ad-campaign-priorities-usa-2012-8

    After all Priorities USA is run by two former Obama White House Aids, so how could there possibly be any connection or coordination.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/priorities-usa-action-reserves-30-million-in-fall-ad-time/2012/08/01/gJQAhlNrPX_blog.html

    Looks like another case of “What did this President know and when did he know it”.

    • BHA_in_Vermont

       And those supporting Romney are no different. The Supreme Court erred big time with Citizen’s United.

    • jimino

      So you advocate overturn of Citizens’ United?  Or are you just opposed to free speech as guaranteed by the first amendment?

  • BHA_in_Vermont

    Should Romney give up his taxes – sure.

    If Reid is claiming “someone told me” as a FACT, he is an idiot and is doing no one any favors. Listen up Reid: “Romney paid taxes”. OK, done. You have another source just as reliable as the first and probably a lot more accurate.

    Romney opened his offshore blind trust so he could run for president in 2008. The ONLY way to look ‘clean’ is to have your investments out of your direct control. I’m pretty sure he isn’t cheating on his taxes. Not paying his “fair share”? Yep, I would agree with that.

  • dwolk

    So many lies in the political campaigns. Companies buying elections. I don’t think this is what our founders had in mind.
    It seems to me that politicians and their backers are so far out of touch with reality that none of them can be trusted. 

  • AnitaC1040

    Yes, this Harry Reid comment may be over the line, but FOX news/Republicans have been saying, “Some people say…” about Dems for years. They have been lying and planting lies for years.  How can you explain all the crap and hate speach that come out of the Tea Party and far right wing?  Where do they get this stuff. Now you are saying, Dems have to play fair, after years of Republicans playing fast and loose with the truth.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1816544 Dan Trindade

    I would personally just like to hear exactly how a Romney Presidency would go about fixing welfare, bringing down the debt, revitilizing the economy, and getting people back to work. I’m not talking about the generalities that have been tossed out and continously repeated by the Romney campaign, I’m talking about specifics. Everytime the Romney campaign has been pressed about what specific policy changes should be made they have reverted to fluff and posturing. What are his actual plans to tackle these issues and why hasn’t he gone into any detail about them? All that I can conclude from their silence is that either the Romney campaign really doesn’t have these answers or they don’t want to take a hard policy stance on any of their principles as it could cost them the election. What do you think Tom, Jack, Laura and Gideon?

    • MrNutso

      That won’t happen, because Romney himself has said that if he gives specifics, people won’t vote for him.  Even when he doesn’t give specifics such as his tax plan, it still bites him on the @$$ as the Tax Policy Center has shown.

    • BHA_in_Vermont

       He will cut taxes for the rich and they will then create millions upon millions of jobs with the money they aren’t sending to D.C. to support the nation. There won’t be a need for social safety nets anymore because we will have 100% employment with health benefits.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1816544 Dan Trindade

        That’s a nice generality.

        • Don_B1

          The ONLY way I can make BHA_in_Vermont’s comment reflect reality is to consider it SARCASM.

    • Jasoturner

      Hanging curveball.

      Reduce taxes and regulation on job creators

      Job creators suddenly unburdened, create thousands of jobs they wanted to create all along, but the taxes made it not worthwhile.

      All the unemployed people get these great jobs that the job creators wanted to create sooner but couldn’t because we have a socialist running the country.

      Full employment and economy roars back to robust health.  Happy days are here again.  China drinks it’s own bitter tears.

      Every citizen also gets a free pony.

    • Mike_Card

      It really is the Willard’s conundrum.  His trump card is his “business acumen,” ergo, his qualification to be President.  But he insists that he hasn’t actually run the business, only signed official statements on behalf of his company–which he had no hand in managing, by the way.  We should just take his word for it that he’s really, really rich…because, well, because he says so.  (And probably because The Donald told him it works.)

      He COULD have mentioned that he had been governor–except that he & his gang either destroyed or bought all the records of his tenure, not to mention disowning the success of Mass’s health-care revolution.

      Or he could talk about how he saved the winter olympics (even though they WERE being conducted in the middle of nowhere) by his ownself.  As long as nobody brings up the $500 million grant from the federal government.

      But Willard doesn’t talk about any of those things, let alone what he would do differently from what the President is attempting to do over a rabble of rabid ideologues in congress.

      What Willard does is encourage his super PAC’s to run TV ads that are outright lies, avoid the press, and insist that he is the best candidate.  Because–gosh darn it to heck–he really deserves to be President of the United States!

  • Mike_Card

    Well, since the new commentary policy, all I have to say is that Tom and his guests are just swell.  They remain on topic and are never snarky or partisan.  This is just the best radio show ever.  Gee whiz, I love On Point!  (Is that OK, Alex?)

  • Matt Wade

    Politicians slandering each other is old hat. The mudslinging and slander between Andrew Jackson and John Q Adams in the election of 1828 was much worse.

  • Mouse_2012

    The media Condemnation of Reid and Obama’s ads as mccarthyism is quite funny because such claims of obama being a muslim or from Kenya was instead talked about and invesigated by the media instead of labeling it mccarthyism.

    • Davesix6

      Did you ever hear any Republican leader talking about Obamas citizenship on the floor of the House or the Senate? NO!

      • adks12020

        No, it was just talked about EVERYWHERE ELSE for 3 years!

      • Mouse_2012

        In November 2009, then-Representative Nathan Deal replied to a question about whether he believed that Obama “is a native-born American citizen who is eligible to serve as president” with a statement that “I am joining several of my colleagues in the House in writing a letter to the President asking that he release a copy of his birth certificate so we can have an answer to this question.

        Instead, it’s Republican members of Congress, elected officials and state party organizations — in Arizona, Iowa and Florida — that are responsible for the latest round of conspiracy-mongering. And the loose talk could cause a headache for Mitt Romney this election season.
        The issue flared this week in Iowa, a closely watched electoral battleground, where the state GOP wrote a passage into its proposed party platform calling on presidential candidates to “show proof of being a natural-born citizen,” beginning with the 2012

        http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/23/politics/birthers-arizona-iowa/index.html

      • Mouse_2012

        Rep. Cliff Stearns (R-Fla.), already under fire for allegations he bribed his primary opponent to drop out of the race, questioned the legitimacy of President Obama’s birth certificate at a town-hall meeting.
        Meeting with constituents in Belleview, Fla., on Feb. 25, Stearns was asked about Obama’s citizenship and whether a grand jury was looking into the issue. Stearns said the “general consensus” was that Obama had produced a birth certificate.

        http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/house-races/215545-rep-stearns-questions-legitimacy-of-obama-birth-certificate

      • Ray in VT

        You’re right, they don’t talk about it on the floor of Congress.  Republican officeholders and candidates save that for the campaign trail.  I do recall one calling the President a liar from the floor of Congress.

      • jefe68

        Great, another right wing tit for tat argument based on childishness.

  • Brandstad

    You know the US Government is out of control when: Last Friday, US Congressman Dennis Kucinich introduced HR 6357, a bill which aims to ‘prohibit the extrajudicial killing of United States citizens’ by the federal government.

    • MrNutso

      How is that out of control?

      • Brandstad

        You should read the constitution and our founding documents.

        Our government doesn’t have the right to kill Americans without charges, a trial, and a conviction.

        Drone killing of Americans is the 20th century of public lynching.
         

        • http://www.facebook.com/stewsburntmonkey David Stewart

          The Constitution tasks the government with providing for the common defense among other things.

          It has never been the case that the government has to always hold a trial.  If a criminal is acting violently, threatening the lives of police officers or civilians, deadly force has always been permissible.

          Lynchings were generally done my mobs of citizens.  The drone killings are done in a warzone by the military or CIA.  I don’t really see the similarity at all.

        • jimino

          You appear to be unaware of the concept of the “unitary executive” pioneered by Bush/Cheney.  Or you may have been cheering it on when advanced but now having second thoughts.  Which is it?

    • jefe68

      You have a real warped view of the US government.
      On the one hand you think it’s out of control when a Congressman introduces a bill that is trying to pull the government back from using it’s power to kill people.
      And yet on the other hand you go on and on about the US government having to much control on other aspects of our society. Two faced is what comes to mind.

    • JGC

      We must never submit to extrajudicial killing of U.S. citizens by the federal government, when it it a well established fact that extrajudicial killing of U.S. citizens can only be done by fellow U.S. citizens under the Stand your Ground laws…

  • BHA_in_Vermont

    Romney was born in Mexico. He should be required to produce both his parents’ birth certificates to prove he is “natural born” American citizen according to U.S. law and is eligible to become president.

    Romney Birther Movement!!!!   :)   :)   ;)  

    • Mike_Card

      Wasn’t that George who was born in Mexico?

  • Mouse_2012

    It’s funny when the female guest was shocked someone like Reid would say something like that with no proof and the media should take it seriously.

    Was this not the case with the lead up to Iraq? the Promotion of war with Iran? Iran’s Nukes? Claims by Syrian rebels? The TNC claims during the Libyan war? Susan Rice claims on Human rights and U.S. support of democracy? and on and on when Politicans openly lie about things and the media takes it as if it somehow or must be true.

  • Michiganjf

    Romney wants to give the rich more tax breaks and put more burden on the middle class and poor.

    THAT IS THE POINT OF ROMNEY’S TAX RETURNS!!!!!

    If Romney wants to push his tax agenda on America, then he SHOULD DEFINTELY let Americans see what kind of taxes HE HIMSELF HAS PAID!!!!

    • BHA_in_Vermont

       And the loopholes he used to cut taxes as much as possible. “real” people might be surprised at what they don’t know about the U.S. tax system. I count myself in that crowd!

      • Michiganjf

        YES!

          … and Romney truly CAN”T show Americans his tax returns, because Americans will be disgusted by what crooks like Romney get away with, and just how much they’ve rigged the system in their favor.

        If Romney shows America his tax returns, HE WILL LOSE… NO DOUBT ABOUT IT!!!

        • Brandstad

          no, he can’t show them because it would distract the idiots in the mainstream media away from the real issue.  THE ECONOMY!

          • Ray in VT

            I think that he could show them, end the talk on the issue and then talk about the economy if he likes.

          • jimino

            I agree the ever-increasing inequality between the richest Americans and the rest of the country is by far the most important issue facing our country and would welcome it if the candidates would focus on this.

    • Davesix6

      Romney wants to keep tax increases off everyone by extending the current tax rates. Even a lot of left wing Keynesian economist agree with that.

  • MrNutso

    Interesting article on the Reid tax claim.

    http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/08/was-harry-reid-right.html 

  • Davesix6

    President Obama and the dems are trying to come up with every distraction they can to keep voters attention off Obama’s horrible record as President.

    It’s the economy stupid!

    • Brandstad

      Obama is the welfare presadent!
      He has expanded the program to gain votes

      • jefe68

        Yeah I guess all those people who lost their jobs, due to the Bush years, are not a factor in this.
        What’s that smell? It’s the stench of mendacity. 

        • Davesix6

          Must be the mendacity surrounding all those Obama campaign promises jefe

          • jefe68

            Yeah more tit for tat rhetoric from the right.
            Grow up.

        • Brandstad

          Bush had about the same average unemployment rate as Clinton. which was on par with the avg pres.

      • http://freeourfreemarkets.org/ Steve Banicki

        Actually Obama passed no new welfare laws. Entitlement spending increased because the economy collapsed just before he took office and the result was an increase in entitlement spending based on the existing law.

        • Davesix6

          Obama has been in office three years now. when are you whiny dems gonna start taking some responsibility for something? Anything?

          • http://freeourfreemarkets.org/ Steve Banicki

            LOL! Good dodge and good point. Obama has been around for three years and the last entitlement change was by Bush regarding drugs about 10 years ago.

          • Don_B1

            Beyond the ARRA (stimulus), Obama has tried to pass a lot of legislation that would have lowered the unemployment rate, the latest being the American Jobs Act, proposed in October of 2011. If that had passed then, instead of just last month, the unemployment rate would have been at least one point lower, or in the low 7.x%. But Republicans find a high unemployment rate helpful in their campaigns this year.

  • BHA_in_Vermont

    Yeah, I can believe that Romney has a lot of “reduce taxable income” years and paid very low taxes. Might make the 2011 15% tax rate look huge. Done all the time by the rich and powerful. Done by businesses. Regular folk don’t have ‘access’ to those loopholes.

    I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that Romney wants that to not come out. He wouldn’t feel embarrassed, I don’t think he has a clue how the “other 99%” live. He just knows it would not be good politically.

    • jimino

      The one comment I have not heard from those so apoplectic about Reids’ comments is that someone with the Romneys’ income couldn’t possibly pay nothing in  income tax. 

      The IRS reports that in 2009 over 35,000 people making more than $200,000 paid zero federal taxes, so it’s really not that uncommon.

  • J__o__h__n

    Romney ceded any right to complain about misleading ads when he defended manufacturing a quote from Obama quoting a McCain aide.  And the fact that people die when they get laid off and lose their health care wasn’t unforeseeable when Bain was gutting companies.

    • Mike_Card

      “gutting?”

      • J__o__h__n

        fixed, thanks.

  • DrJoani

    I regret to say I’m not unhappy that the Obama invisible pacs are
    adding their own half-truths to the mix since the GOP money seems to get their blatant lies out everywhere and constantly, on NPR of all places!
    WELFARE? Romney’s family and Romney have been on welfare all their lives and we’re paying for it.,
    Have to laugh about Anne, the poor maligned stay-at-home mom (kids are grown, of course) who takes care of…her horses, which somehow allows Romney a tremendous tax deduction of many thousands of dollars— more than most of us will see in our lifetimes. And Mitten claims that the horses are not his concern; nor is dressage, yet he takes a huge tax deduction?

    There’s more to say about this but since I don’t have TV and get my FUXNEWS from The Daily Show I’ll stop here.

    • sickofthechit

       Actually, that should be spelled FAUX News.

      As for the horse.  What does it say about a multimillionaire who is so greedy he deducts $67,000 or $78,000 for horse expenses so he can save less than 15% of that on his taxes?  He is definitely not from this planet.

  • MrNutso

    I don’t recall a near depression occurring before or during the Reagan administration.

    • adks12020

      Reagan is diefied by Republicans now but if he tried to do many of things he did back then today he would be crucified. He raised taxes numerous times, he raised the debt ceiling numerous times, he spent a ridiculous amount of money..all things conservatives would pounce on today.  He would never be so popular in today’s political climate.

      • Ray in VT

        I really liked a bit that the Daily Show did a while back where they played clips of things that Reagan said, followed by a clip of Obama saying basically the same thing, and then a clip of conservatives and Fox News tearing into Obama for his statement.

        • Duras

          Yeah, I was going to say that.  It’s pretty funny that republicans cheif argument against Washington gridlock is Obama’s lack of leadership–but Obama at times in that one speech quoted Reagan verbatim without mentioning Reagan’s name and republicans argued directly against those statements.

          It’s too bad that most republicans are too ignorant to see that and that they really don’t have any principles and views.  They are nothing more than puppet-people, cheerleading for a political party simply because they are not democrats.

    • Brandstad

      Exactly, because Reagan turned the worst recession since the great depression into prosparity through conservative principals!

      • adks12020

        Actually he didn’t do that at all.  He tried to implement so called “conservative principals” and the economy started to tank.  So he raised taxes several times, increased the debt ceiling numerous times, AND reduced spending.  We still had a small recession in the late 80s forcing George Bush to also raise taxes during his term.  Revisionist history isn’t good for anyone.

      • Ray in VT

        It may have been the worst up to that point, although when I’ve looked at some of the numbers from that period, it didn’t too bad, but it was certainly milder than 2008-2009.  And what conservative principles were those?  Deregulation of banking such as what contributed to the S&L crisis?  Tax cuts and spending increases resulting in large deficits?  Supplying weapons to sponsors of terrorism in order to fund right wing paramilitary organizations in Central America?

      • jimino

        So raising middle class taxes and running deficits are conservative principles? 

      • Don_B1

        Here we go again! The Brandstad regular lie has to be displayed as a lie yet again.

        The “Reagan Recession” was due to Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker’s raising interest rates to dampen inflation, which slowed the economy (recession). The Recession ended when Paul Volcker determined that inflation was low enough and he cut the Fed’s interest rate, which stimulated the economy and the Recession ended.

        The Reagan Recession and the Bush 2007-9 Recession were quite different things. The latter was caused when the big investment banks bought mortgages from mortgage brokers willy-nilly to “securitize” (package into huge bundles and then sell “tranches” of supposedly different quality “derivatives” as financial instruments to other banks, pension funds, and investors. The original values of the mortgages were so removed from the claimed value of the derivatives that when Lehman Brothers collapsed, the values of all such derivatives “suddenly” became suspect and the banks refused to lend to one another because they could not determine if a loan would/could be paid back. The trigger for all this was the “unexpected” fall in the price of housing, where the availability of mortgages for inflated house values had created a financial bubble. This left a lot of homeowners with houses worth less than the mortgage, particularly those who had borrowed (refinanced) to increase their spending when the average wages did not increase in the 200xs as they had since the end of WWII. Thus consumer spending growth came to a halt and the economy dropped off a cliff, with newly unemployed also cutting spending drastically.

        In an economy that was 70% driven by consumer spending, it will take some time (up to at least a decade) before it recovers unless the government temporarily replaces that consumer spending by spending on infrastructure as the ARRA did, but not sufficiently.

        No business that expects to stay in business will invest in new or increased production of goods or services without a customer willing and able to buy them.

  • Matt Wade

    To quote Herm Edwards: “You play to win the game!” All tactics are fair to keep Romney out of the White House considering what Obama has had to endure from the Birthers and the Racists for the past 4.5 years. Finally the Democrats are playing hardball and its fun to see the GOP whining about it.

    • Brandstad

      What are Obama’s top 5 accomplishments in your oppionion?  What would you like him to achieve if he was reelected?

      • Duras

        Healthcare.  Getting rid of banks as middle men between government loans and students.  Getting out of Iraq.  Getting Stem Cell research going, which has already made break throughs in heart disease.  Saving an economy from a contracting GDP of 8.9% with stimulus.  Actually going after terrorists.  And, although republicans have blocked him, Obama actually tries to remedy our leading drivers of the deficits (instead of talking about food stamps). 

        You didn’t ask me but this stuff needs to be said.   I would like to see him fight for an amendment in the next term that would only allow breathing individuals to donate money to politicians up to $2,500.  I would like to see him make student loans and grants apply to only public universities and community colleges–that would put useless for-profit colleges out of business and lessen the student loan bubble.  Then I would like to see him tax the rich, of course, to push down the deficit, push down tuition costs, and increase public employment to 20% of the economy for the much needed demand.  I would like to see him re-apply Glass-Steagal regulations, which are far tougher than Dodd-Frank and they held this country together for nearly 70 years. 

        Is that the communism that the right wing is so scared of? 

        • Michiganjf

          Nice!

        • Jasoturner

          Well done sir.  I think some auto workers could add another bullet point or two as well!

          • Brandstad

            As long as they are union members because the non-union auto members lost big

            The news site The Daily Caller has obtained internal government emails that show the U.S. Treasury Department, led by Timothy Geithner, pushed in 2009 to end the pensionsof 20,000 non-union employees of GM’s Delphi…

        • Brandstad

          What has Obama tried to do to remedy our leading drivers of the deficits? I seem to remember Paul Ryan being the only person to propose a budget that addressed our deficit even though it didn’t come close to stopping the growth of government.

          I seem to remember Obama followed the plan bush put in writing for the exit of Iraq even though he promised to get out earlier.

          Obama got Osama thanks to bush policies that he opposed.  If Obama had his way earlier, he wouldn’t have had the Intel to find Osama!  Obama also reportedly called off the raid three times before he maned up and OK’ed the operation.

          Getting rid of banks as middle men between government loans and students.  That sounds great, but when I was in college, I got cheaper student loans through banks than I was offered from the federal government.  I am sure I am not alone in this and thanks to Obama making private loans illegal, I would have to pay more for student loans after his change than I did before.  I am offended that I lost my freedom to get student loans from anyone willing to lend me money.
           

          • Duras

            The leading drivers of the deficits according to the CBO are: (1) the Bush Tax Cuts, (2) the Wars, (3) Medicare Part D.

            Medicare Part D is the one with the massive fraud on the supplier side.  Obamacare restructures it in 2014, eliminating the Fraud.  The Ryan plan doesn’t touch the supplier side and the fraud, and cuts the consumer side.  And then republicans run an ad saying that “Obama is cutting your medicare.”

            When I was in college, all there were were federal loans that had its own interest rate but the banks had to “manage” them and provided another interest rate as well.  Obama’s move saved me thousands of dollars, and Romney already said he would put the banks back as middlemen, which would obviously cost millions of people thousands of dollars and exacrebate the student loan bubble.  Not to mention, Romney supports for-profit schools, which are the real culprits taking advantage of the system and exacrebating the bubble. 

            Second, don’t give me that Bush got Bin Laden crap.  There is a major hypocracy with the “War on Terrorism” and it is that most of them are in Pakistan.  Obama got a lot of heat from republicans and Fox News when he said that he would go to Pakistan to kill them. 

            Say what you want about Obama’s methods of killing terrorist, but he has done it with more relish and more efficiently than the republicans.  Obama has been one of the best foriegn policy presidents America has had.

            Obama pushed out 3 dictators with zero American lives and less than 44 billion dollars.  Bush ousted 1 dictator with thousands of American lives and a trillion dollars. 

            Republicans only criticism of Obama on foreign policy is that he apologizes, but he’s not apologizing for America, he’s apologizing for republicans. 

          • Duras

            By the way, you can get student loans from the banks still.  It’s not illegal.  The interest rates are significantly lower with federal loans.  

            But it’s all crap anyway–markets dictated that our citizenship needs to have a college education and our government should work to make it affordable and drive down the tuition to zero (for at least flagship state schools).  You know how nice it would be if people didn’t have to pay off student debt while saving for their kids rising tuition at the same time?  The economy would be much better if we returned to higher tax rates on the top to make the majority of the country economically healthy.

          • Don_B1

            State government support of state colleges and universities has declined steeply over the last 30 years as Reagan policies spread and businesses demanded lower taxes to “stay in or move to” a state. This push to the bottom has meant the states have less money for all levels of schools.

  • http://twitter.com/JHWillson John Willson

    Why will the mainstream media not cover the plight of the Delphi Salaried Retirees?

    Emails showing administration collusion in destoying 20,000 earned pensions. Bipartison call for Congressional investigation. On going Federal District Court lawsuit costing millions. Obama favoritism to politically powerful organizations. The list goes on and on.

    Background and information here: http://www.delphisalariedretirees.org/delphi/

    • Brandstad

      Because if every american knew about this, Obama would not be reelected.

      The media is owned and controlled by the democrats.

    • http://www.facebook.com/stewsburntmonkey David Stewart

      Probably because there doesn’t appear to be any real story there.  It’s based off willfully misinterpreting emails and simply fabricating a storyline.

      But it would allow Democrats to attack Romney’s record on employee pensions which isn’t good.

  • Mouse_2012

    Politican says Iran is in pursuit of Nukes. CIA says Iran is not pursuring such.

    Media reports? Iran is pursuring Nukes therefore we must santion them more.

    Politican says Syria should be Sanction because of it’s failure to allow freedom and democracy and holding people without charge or killing civilians is wrong.  Bahrain does just that, Saudi Arabia does the same.

    Media reporting? It’s shocking that a government like syria would do this to it’s people. The Saudi have place a motion in the U.N. to comdemn of Syria’s opression of it’s own people.

    U.S., Saudi Arabia and Qatar supply arms to the rebels in Syria.

    Media reporting? Activist have taken up arms against there opressive regime the Syria governemnt says the’re being supported by foreign outsiders but there’s no proof to this claim………10 minute later.Media reporting… Saudi Arabia has stepped up it’s supplies of arms to the Free Syrian Army.

  • Davesix6

    Priorities USA is run by two former Obama White House Aids!
    Does anymore need be said concerninig White House involvement in this disgrace?

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/priorities-usa-action-reserves-30-million-in-fall-ad-time/2012/08/01/gJQAhlNrPX_blog.html

  • Julian12
  • J__o__h__n

    What does Laura Meckler expect Obama to do about gun violence other than talk about it?  There is no way that Congress is going to do anything on that issue.

  • GinnieJP

    Although I have been disappointed in Obama, I would never vote for Romney.  The add about Obama gutting welfare’s work requirment is so disengenuous! What jobs are these people suppose to get?  And although I agree that the Romney killed my wife” could have been an add for the Affordable Care Act, Obama throughout his presidency has tried to reach out and has been kicked in the teeth by rightwingers.

    • jefe68

      The Obama administration is not gutting anything.
      IF people would take the time to read what the provision on the welfare laws, as they apply to states, has been amended to let states deal with special cases. By the way the request for these changes were made by GOP governors. What Romney is going on about is an out right lie. Period.

  • AnitaC1040

    One last comment. I remember the lying “Swift Boat” ads against Presidential candidate John Kerry. Every bit of those ads were lies. And yet they had the desired effect of swinging the election to Bush. (that and stopping the Florida count) So you are now asking the Dems to disarm and allow only the far Right wingers to lie. I say fight fire with fire and let’s see who wins. It was the far right wing Supreme court that has allowed citizens United and the Congress who voted down transparency.

    • Mouse_2012

      You forget that far right-wing lying should be repeated and presented in a he said she said manner otherwise people might not think that both sides are the same.

      Clearly the “Swift Boat” ads were clearly Freedom of Corp speech. And you should know that Corporations are people by friend. While the Reid comment is clearly to the level of Joe Mccarthy and must by rountinely condemned by all media outlets.

      How could someone say something wth no proof to back it up other than their supposed sources(Dina Temple Raston..opps) and expect the media to repeat it as true(U.S. citizens paying too much in taxes, illegals cutting off peoples americans heads, and on and on)

      • jefe68

        Talk about hyperbole. 

      • AnitaC1040

        LOL!!!!  Wow, are you kidding. So you are saying that Mitch McConnell and John Boehner never use hyperbole or bait the other side.  Get real.  All’s fair in love and war. And the Dems need to do what they can to fight the Right wing lies and idiocy. Even using their tactics.  Saints don’t win elections in this day and age. I say go for it Harry Reid and about time, create doubt in the public’s mind, use every card in your deck that is available.  It makes me laugh when the far Right wing starts whining over hardball politics.

  • AnitaC1040

    Sorry, I mis spoke, the Florida miscount was for Presidential candidate Al Gore, who actually won the election. But again. The wealthy far right wing will stop at nothing to win elections. I have been reading comments about Dems on the internet and they are some of the vilest, ugliest comments I have ever read about Dems.  The names that Dems are called are beyond the pale. Who starts this? I hear it and I see it from the leaders of the Republican Party every day. I walk into book stores and I see Ann Coulter’s hateful book titles, as well as other right wing books.  I mean, come on.  How are you suppose to fight back to all that.

    • Davesix6

      From Wikipedia;
      Media based

      Following the election, recounts conducted by various United States news media organizations indicated that Bush would have won if certain recounting methods had been used (including the one favored by Gore at the time of the Supreme Court decision).

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_Florida,_2000#Florida_Ballot_Project_recounts

      • AnitaC1040

        I don’t think so, there has been more updated data stating Gore would have won in Florida.

        • Davesix6

          So all the ballots were counted right after the election by numerous media organizations.
          There were only a certain number of ballots.
          So I guess this “updated data” reflects a kind of “voter fraud” after the fact?

      • sickofthechit

         They forgot about the butterfly ballots and the precinct that was 80-90% Jewish that voted for Pat Roberts of all people because of the confusion in how the names bush Roberts and Gore were stacked and staggered on the ballot.

  • J__o__h__n
  • lemlar

    There has been much talk about the drought and its effect on food prices, farmers, and agriculture, but not enough criticism of the industry’s move to monoculture and the focus on corn and soybean production, and their attendant subsidies.  If we didn’t use corn in thousands of products it has no need or real use to be in–not to mention feeding it to animals not meant to eat it–maybe a corn shortage would have much less impact.  I confess I find it hard to feel sorry for farmers in particular and consumers generally.  People want food that is cheaper than what it truly should cost.   

    • OnPointComments

      More than 40% of this year’s US corn harvest will be diverted to be used for ethanol production, up from 20% in 2006. The sharp increase was due to government mandates on ethanol use.  Extreme radical environmentalism and congressional cronyism turns corn into alcohol while millions are starving.

      • Don_B1

        T. Boone Pickens tells of his remarks to Bob Dole that the mandate for ethanol in gasoline was the biggest ripoff of the American taxpayer ever and Dole’s response that there were 44 Senators from big agricultural states and that there was no way that ethanol would not be mandated.

        The fact that a few environmentalists (not even a lot of them) initially backed ethanol did not matter one bit in the money-dominated Congress.

  • Sidnie Feit

    I object to your closing comments today that implied (with no disclaimers) that Obama was incompetent and was responsible for our economic problems.  I consider our situation to be far too serious for such offhand remarks.
    1) A reminder: Obama inherited a massive debt, a broken tax system, a housing crisis, and two wars.
    2) From Obama’s first day in office, the Republicans publicly stated that their ONLY goal was to “make him a one term President”. They have acted exclusively toward this goal.
    3) The Republicans WANTED a bad economy in order to win the election, and have blocked every action that might improve the numbers.
    4) This is not a “normal” business cycle. The world economy has changed. The Internet allows for efficient supply chains that reach around the world with cheap remote workforces that labor for long hours with no benefits or health protection.
    5) Think of the jobs that have disappeared and are melting away – the thousands who used to work for insurance companies and banks who have been replaced by computers – the manufacturing assembly lines that are largely robotic – the disappearing supermarket checkout, shop and department store assistants – the vanishing Video and electronics stores…the workers who used to make clothing, shoes, sporting goods, kitchen equipment, furniture, etc replaced by overseas workers… THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT OUR SAFE, STABLE, LONG-TERM JOBS ARE MELTING AWAY AND YOU CANNOT HAVE A STABLE ECONOMY WITHOUT A BACKBONE OF STABLE JOBS.
    6) Obama is not a fool and knows that health care services would be a powerful economic engine, with jobs that are very hard to displace. Money would pump through the economy. The dollar that you spend is a dollar that I can earn.
    7) Obama has pushed and pushed for a massive infrastructure program. (Today, the Gov’t can borrow money at essentially 0% interest and such a program also would inject money into the cash stream that flows through the economy.) Without it we will become a third world country.  Is it his fault that he cannot get the Republicans to pass it? Do you think that President == God?

    A strong message from the country in this election could put us on the right track.

    PS. We are at the end of a long period in which economies have worked in a fairly predictable manner. Our era is just the beginning of the end of the old model. Great advances are being made in robotics at places like Carnegie-Mellon University. How do you structure an economy in a world where what we now view as productivity is 25% or 50% or 75% performed roboticly? Do not expect rigid minds to cope with  the challenges that this will create.

    • Brandstad

      Obama had control of all branches of government and didn’t require a single repulican vote for his first two years!  Durring this time they couldn’t block anything that democrats wanted to do.

      Why didn’t he pass a massive infrastructure program? because he didn’t want to I guess.

      • Michiganjf

        Laughable.

           Get a clue! 

      • Duras

        First off, Government was extremely productive in those two years passing necessary legistlation that stopped GDP from contracting at 8.9%. 

        Second, your comment unconsciously admits that Obama’s policies are right for the country, that you have no argument against these correct policies and that you root against the correct policies simply because it helps the party you root for even though they are in the wrong.  So you rather root for the wrong policies because it helps your political party…?  Do you like self-torture?  Can you wake up from your dogmatic slumber?  Can you stop repeating the stock answer to liberal argument and find yourself an individual brain?

        • Brandstad

          You earned a Gold medal in mental gymnastics.

          My comment consciously admits that Obama thinks his policies are good for the country, but Obama consciously admits he wants to transformatively change America too.

          No one that loves America would want to transformatively change America.  Did you ever hear what Obama wanted to transformatively change America into?  Any American that loves our great country would resist any effort to transformatively change America!

          Let’s review the results from 4 years of Obama’s transformative change.  

          Record numbers of Americans on food stamps

          Record numbers of Americans on unemployment

          Gas prices are 2X what they were the day he entered office

          Job growth to slow to even make up for population growth

          Record low percentage of Americans in the workforce, the government assumes people leave the workforce in order to reduce the unemployment rate.

          Healthcare costs rising at increasing rates



           

          • Duras

            As far as I can tell Obama argues for regulations that are weaker than Glass-Steagall, tax rates on the rich that are far lower than the rates during much of the American history when America rised as a superpower, and an energy initiative that is similar to the one that Germany is doing.  You know, if Reagan hadn’t repealed Carter’s energy initiative which was modeled after the Germans’, this country would be a lot better off today.

            Moreover, republicans have no room to argue about jobs since they blocked a jobs bill.  Public employment is around 15% of the economy, and about 800,000 public sector employees have been fired.  If we would have kept up with population in publice employment like the Bush did, we would have a net gain of 1.6 million employees.  I wonder what kind of multiplier effect 1.6 million employees would have on the private markets….  And just to put things in perspective: Greece’s publice employment is 60% of the economy, which is no where near what Obama is proposing.  We are like Greece, but not in the way republicans say we are–the excess is on the top. 

          • Brandstad

            Was that the jobs bill that paid 75% of the outgoing money to foreign companies that included car companies in Finland, battery companies in China, Green energy companies in Mexico, Solar panel companies in China?  Oh wait, that was the Stimulus bill that passed! LOL

          • Duras

            Yeah, great argument.  Good job ignoring the fact that we can hire construction works on infrastructure projects until the housing market picks up.  That we don’t have to have 30 to 40 per classroom, we don’t have to cut our police departments, and fire departments, nor do we need to cut public employee wages which also affect the private markets, especially during a demand-crippled economy. 

            Let me guess, what your rebuttle will be: “Why didn’t Obama do that during the first 2 years?” 

          • Don_B1

            ALL your “claims” are false! But that is nothing new for you! You are the disinformer-in-chief.

            But as usual, you hide behind not giving sources for your claims because they are totally untrustworthy and you make so many that people will not spend the time tracking each down.

            But in your world, repetition counts more than accuracy (which counts for zero, so I guess that doesn’t say much for repetition, either). It is a shame that so many people do not have the time to do their homework.

            As an example the money claimed to go to Finland went to build a factory HERE that will make batteries HERE. So you continue to spread that lie after many times being shown the TRUTH.

            Anyone who believes your crap should think about whether they are being taken for fools.

          • Duras

            By the way, there are two forms of patriotism: the one that wraps itself in a flag and clutches the cross; and, the other one is what Jefferson said, “Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.”

            The former obviously applies to you.  But go ahead and think that America is the best of all possible worlds, wave your flag and ignore rationality.

            Samuel Johnson: “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.”  So go cloak yourself behind an American flag and think you are a real American, but you are an under-educated idiot who needs to travel a little more and read more books.

          • Brandstad

            Another person that wants to ignore the facts and insult and belittle others.  You are a very small intellect and I pity your family.

            I hope someone can some day explain to you some of this.

          • Don_B1

            Do you mean Duras should ignore the facts like you do?

            Someone has to bring real facts to the table here, and you have been greatly deficient in doing that.

          • Duras

            Sorry, but you are just so stupid that I feel like I have to help you: every time you lose an argument (or republicans in general) you say, “Well, why didn’t Obama do that when he had Congress?”  Well, why don’t we do the right thing now.  You obviously ran out of logic and data (which is not hard because republican dogma is so shallow).  What’s wrong with doing the right thing now?  Everytime a liberal brings you to the end of your logic, instead of saying, “Why didn’t Obama do it earlier?” say instead, you are right and I’m going to write to my congressman because I’m out of argument…your logic and data trumps mine, so I’ll vote for the party who has the logic and data on their side. 

            That’s called coming to reasonable conclusions, not trying to find some mental loophole to evade the truth that your political party wants to do the wrong things. 

            Wake up.

          • Brandstad

            Obvously stupid is as stupid does because while you do a good job of throwing insults, you don’t do a very good job of addressing the facts that I laid out. 

            I will just chalk that up as a win.

            Thanks!

          • Duras

            Okay…before the stimulus GDP was contracting at 8.9%.  What would unemployment look like if we would have let that go without a stimulus? 

          • Don_B1

            Brandstad won’t answer you, but it would have been over 12% and a President McCain would have found that out and shown it to the world.

          • Don_B1

            Well Brandstad, you are proof that creating stupid arguments to trap unsuspecting people into “buying the Brooklyn Bridge” takes at least some intelligence, just shamefully misused intelligence.

          • jefe68

            So in your world, the fantasy world of Branstad’ America, it’s a place that never changes and is regressive.

    • Brandstad

      Blaming Republicans for Obama’s failures only highlight Obama’s weaknesses.

      A great president can work in a bipartisan fashion to make America better since republicans and democrats both want to better our country.
       

      • Duras

        I guess you ignored that comment when Obama quoted Reagan verbatim, yet republicans still attacked Obama and unawaringly attacked the God of Modern Republicanism, Ronald Reagan. 

        Republicans are ideological freaks who are only lead by a malignant power that is beyond themselves.

      • brettearle

        Your comment is one of the most blind, biased, subjective non-comments that I have read, in recent weeks.

        To ignore how recalcitrant Congress has been is like denying the impending arrival of an asteroid, the size of the moon, bearing down on the planet.

        In 2010, around the time of the mid-term elections, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell came out with one of the most telling and inane comments yet, by a Washington Republican….about how it will be Republicans’ singular goal, in DC, to defeat the President…..AS IF THE SINGULAR GOAL WOULD NOT BE TO SERVICE THE PUBLIC.

        If Brandstad cannot understand the implications of such a comment, then he may be a candidate for emergency ophthalmological surgery.

        • Don_B1

          Brandstad fully understands the implications of McConnell’s remarks; he just will not acknowledge that he does. It meddles with the false “story” he keeps trying to peddle here.

          But I liked Ezra Klein’s observation that it is worth following McConnell’s statements because they often illuminate the true underlying thrusts of Republican actions.

          • brettearle

            Oh, I agree…..

            McConnell’s comments are clearly a good litmus test, for what’s going on with Republican thinking.

            But the real problem is the distorted GOP  propaganda, coming from the “Right Wing Attack Machine”.

            The other problem, now, is Ryan.

            You may think that he’ll turn out to be a liability–because he is such a strong Conservative.

            But he’s got a strong intellect–and people will listen to him.

            Obama may readily win the debates.

            But Biden is going to have his hands full. 

            As far as a guy like Brandstad is concerned, all we have to do is to continue to expose him for his radically misguided views.

      • RobertLongView

        Every effort at bipartisanship by Obama was rejected by Republicans.  You need to turn off the television set.  Go out in the yard and play… .

      • Don_B1

        It takes two to “tango,” as they say. The Republicans made sure that, with the exception of Arlen Specter’s defection on the stimulus (with the “cover” provided by Maine’s Senators), no Obama-backed legislation to grow the economy got Republican support.

        Obama really raised dissension among Democrats by his repeated attempts to work in a bipartisan way from the start of his administration and was slow to realize that the Republicans were operating as if the government was a parliamentary form rather than a bicameral legislature with a separate executive.

        Most of Obama’s legislative proposals already contained strong Republican-supported features, from the excessive tax-cut proportion of the stimulus to not imposing restrictive regulations on the banks in aspects of TARP when he could have.

    • brettearle

      The problem with your impressive analysis–and I am being sincere, here–is that you are NOT taking into account the mentality and behavior of the Electorate.

      The economy–and other endemic cultural and societal problems–are creating enormous pressures on American citizens.

      They have neither the time nor the motivation to wrestle with critical issues–much less to anticipate the future.

      They only thing they care about, for the most part, are knee-jerk reactions to how “my problems can be solved.”

      The, “what have you done for me lately”, syndrome could very much be in play, come November.

      That’s why–whether we like it or not–the Democrats need to fight back with negative campaigning…..AND THIS IS HAPPENING.

      I hate to win, via negativity and half-Truths–but the fact is that Senator Kerry was Swift-Boated.  And Kerry lost partially because of it (and because he did not fight back soon  enough and hard enough).

      And the “Republican Attack Machine”–that includes Obama being a socialist, an illegal alien, child murderer, among other outrageous inferences–needs to be CHALLENGED.

      If you are going to swim with the sharks than you better know how to behave like a shark’s natural predator.

      Regardless of how unseemly it is, if propaganda is the only way to win, THEN SO BE IT:

      –Reid’s comment about Romney’s tax returns

      –Obama’s campaign accusing Romney of a felony,
         because of the SEC documents

      –Recent AD blaming an ex-employee’s wife’s death,
      on the effects of being laid off from a Bain
      leveraged investment.

    • Davesix6

      Sindie,
      Let me spell it out for you.

      Obama is incompetent and he is responsible for our economic problems.

      The answer to each of your points is this, for the first two years Obama and the dems had control of the Presidency the House of Representatives and the Senate.

      Once again to be clear;
      Obama is incompetent and he is responsible for our economic problems.

      • jimino

        “Obama is incompetent and he is responsible for our economic problems.”

        What should he and/or Congress done, accepting as fact that not one Republican would vote in favor of whatever it was, which means that a majority Senate vote was also not possible given the filibuster rule?   I’m not defending Obama.  I’m just really curious about what you believe should and could have been done.  So please spell it out in detail.  Thanks.

      • DrJoani

        Where have you been? Interpreting reality from the now of yesteryear?
        The inherited MESSES are and do exists and did, some no longer, however. Hey,pal, if you have a great health plan, a decent well-paying job and great purchase power? bravo!
        Bush began the BAILOUTS. If we had nationalized the banks Obama would truly have been and would be a “socialist”—but we gave them a pass, alas.

    • Don_B1

      I agree with all your points, but number 4 needs a bit more point to it. The “Great Recession” was even bigger in proportion to the economy than the 1930 Recession which triggered the Great Depression. The difference is that there was a safety net in place (Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, Medicare, etc.) and the Federal Reserve had a chairman who had studied the causes of the lack of recovery from the 1930 Recession.

      What went wrong in not getting a stronger recovery was that the size of the Great Recession (2007-8) was underestimated, leading to justifying a too weak stimulus and the use of “moral hazard” arguments to not require the banks to rewrite the principle of homeowners with good credit histories but with mortgages under or near underwater.

      And, while Obama had a “filibuster-proof” Senate for only 14 weeks in the first 2 years (not the full two years as Brandstad likes to falsely claim, repeatedly — someone should count the number of times he keeps repeating that one in the face of counterproof) between the swearing-in of Senator Franken and the death and then replacement of Senator Kennedy by Scott Brown, there were a lot of “Blue Dog” Democratic Senators who were unlikely to vote for further stimulus after the first one and the flare up of Tea/Republican Party opposition to the health insurance reform act, PPACA in the summer of 2009, which made their weak knees wobble like jello.

      See my earlier comment on the ways that recessions can differ, as between a “monetary” recession like that of 1982 and the “balance sheet” Great Recession of 2007-9. Brandstad doesn’t want anyone to realize that those differences make big differences in how and with what speed recovery takes place.

  • Davesix6

    Bravo to CNN for finally having the guts to do some honest reporting;

     http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/

    No doubt their audience would increase if their objectivity continued to increase.

  • Brandstad

    I Love It When People Say I Can’t Understand Romney Because I’ve ‘Never Started Or Run A Business’…Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com#ixzz239xYa1uK

  • Duras

    It was nice to see that Romney employee mention that national healthcare saves lives.  It looks like there is some space for reason and humanity inside republicanism somewhere.  But, my god, those other republicans who blew up with anger at the accidental mentioning of the inconvenient truth that this policy has worked and saved lives.  Wow, the core of republicanism is filled with hatred of one’s neighbor.  Is that not malignant or what?   In truth, if one knows that a policy will save lives but denies it anyway, that person is a murderer.  Republicans have become twisted ideological freaks.

    Obama passed a version of health care that was the republican answer to Hilliarycare.  What has changed besides republicans’ massive shift away from reason to pure ideology?  It’s like republican politicians put manicles on the republican voters’ brains and have been tightening the screws over the last 20 or so years.

    • RobertLongView

      TEApublicans starting with the Evangelicals have hijacked the Party formerly known as GOP.  It goes back to the HollyWoodLand democratic actor turned corporate plutocrat turned republican politician.  It has taken 30 years, a thirty year war, for the change to become evident.  Trickle down or voodoo economics played out.  A lot of the apathetic voters today do not know about our 1950′s American economics.   They think Jim Crow South or Reagan’s Welfare Queen, i guess… .

      • Duras

        For sure.  This country would have been far better off today if Carter had won reelection.  Everything that FDR and unions have done to build the middle class has been slowly eaten away be republicanism.  I onced watch the 1980 republican primary debates on youtube, and Bush argued against Reagan that his tax cuts wouldn’t work and that they didn’t work when Kennedy tried it.   At least back then the tax debate on the rich centered around maximizing revenue.  Now it’s a religion. 

        If Carter had been reelected we would probably have taxes on the top at around 50%-60% and no body would think anything of it (just like no body cared how much the rich were getting taxed before Reagan).  Our public institutions wouldn’t be falling apart, while tuition would be much lower, and most importantly, we would be where Germany is with renewable energy.  By far, the Reagan revolution has caused America to devolve to the pre-Depression era. 

  • JGC

    I don’t see any mention yet in the comments about the Sikh temple shooting.  It’s official: mass murder by a domestic terrorist is now as everyday American as eating a slice of apple pie or taking a trip to WalMart.  Yawn…someone pass me a diet Coke…

    • http://www.ecoevolution.org/ Ian G

      I loved how Tom did his patented 

      “Well -insert guest here- what about -let me completely reword/change the question so we aren’t talking about what the caller asked-” 

      move that he is famous for when he either doesn’t understand the position or doesn’t want to talk about a caller’s point when the caller asked why American media has such a hard time dealing with right-wing domestic terrorism. He made the caller’s point right in his handling of the question. Classic.

      The caller asked about right-wing domestic terrorist threats like the one’s being committed all over the nation and Tom tried to change the subject back to Muslim extremism… which apparently is far less of threat these days in terms of numbers of actors involved.

      Our journalists are uncomfortable labeling right-wing terrorism as terrorism because of the closeness of the political ideology that motivates it to our social norms and public figures. They almost reflexively run away from this issue… sad they can’t do straight reporting.

  • William

     So just because Bill and his fellow terrorists  did not kill as many people as they wanted too that is ok? Did Obama’s support to overthrow the government of Libya compare to Reagan’s attempt to toss out the Commies in Central America?

    • jefe68

      So lets recap: It’s OK to back the overthrow of a government if they are left wing but if they are despotic and dictators it’s hands off. I think you should lay of the Chick-Fil-A happy meals.

      • RobertLongView

        yeah, their “kool-aid” there is bad for your bro-thee-lee love

    • Duras

      Reagan caused a genocide in Central America, not “toss out the Commies.”  You can read the international court case. 

      “Reagan’s attempt to through out Commies” … is that what right wing propaganda tells you?  The guy tried to get Pepsi or whatever to open a plant and the locals didn’t want it.  Classic colonization. 

  • JGC

    In Olympic news, the U.S. Equestrian Team Foundation reported on their website that “Rich Fellers and (his horse) Flexible put in a valiant effort in the Individual Show Jumping final at the Olympic Games, and came up with a top ten finish with just five faults.”

    When asked to comment, U.S. Presidential candidate and dressage aficianado Mitt Romney said “I still throw my total support behind Rich Fellers.”

    • OnPointComments

      In Olympic news, the US Track & Field team has won 24 medals.
       

      When asked to comment, President Obama said “You didn’t earn those medals on your own.  I’m always struck by athletes who think, well, it must be because I was just so fast.  There are a lot of fast people out there.  It must be because I worked harder than everybody else.  Let me tell you something – there are a whole bunch of hardworking athletes out there.”  President Obama then proposed that if a Track & Field team is successful, it should have to compete while wearing weights so that the distribution of medals can be more equal.

      • Jasoturner

        Cunningly wrought. 

        Two points, though.

        First, it is tolerable to have 24 athletes who stand alone in American Sports.  24 out of 300+ million.  It is arguably not tolerable that a similar micro-minority should be able to amass great wealth without supporting the country that helped provide the conditions, infrastructure and customers allowing such wealth.  This is not an ironclad argument, and obviously I don’t literally mean a micro-minority of 24 controlling a huge chunk of our national wealth (but you get the idea), but it is a moral consideration.

        Secondly, I think there are very few (only the preposterously egocentric) top tier athletes who would claim they mastered their sport without the support of youth leagues, high school coaching and access to training, the support they receive in college, and the consultants and coaches most pros drag around with them in the modern era.

        Actually, the point about a lot of hard working athletes out there not winning medals is an excellent one.  I know several hard working, honest blue collar workers who were financially destroyed by layoffs and/or family health matters.  I don’t believe we are just the employees of USA, Inc, so this kind of bothers me.

      • brettearle

         Your satire is a sarcastic failure.

        When businesses make it, it is not simply the result of the owner having expertise and pluck.

        Obama was right. 

        What’s more, in no way did he intend to demean big business, small business or anything in between.

      • JGC

        From the U.S. Olympic Committee website on their Ways to Give page
        http://support.teamusa.org  “No athlete becomes an Olympian or Paralympian on their own.” and on their How Giving Helps page, the USOC lists how athletes are given support in housing, sports nutrition and psychology, physiology,library services, strength and conditioning coaching, and life skills training. 

        • RobertLongView

          Thank you!  So much for the Teapublican revisionist’s history of America.  In a Dog eat dog world your on your own.  “The man” with the biggest pile of money is the winner. 

      • sickofthechit

         Actually it was Romney who during the Salt Lake Olympics brought up the fact that the Olympians competing there did not do it on their own, it was also due to the efforts of their parents, families, coaches etc. who helped them achieve their success.

      • http://tfrx.livejournal.com/ TFRX

        Do we have to link to Romney’s speech at Salt Lake telling cheering throngs, “And the athletes here know, they didn’t get here alone.”

        Lame right-wing talking points that were smacked down a week ago don’t get better with repetition.

  • William

     Don’t you find it strange that those bomb throwers like Ayers got off?  Did his bomb throwing influence current day radicals like the

    • Ray in VT

      I am directing this reply to both this current comment as well as your one below.

      Can you please list for me specific terrorist acts that Bill Ayers has been proven to have been connected with?  I asked it earlier this morning, but I did not see a reply.  Perhaps charges are still forthcoming.  It has taken the government decades to bring to justice some of the Klansmen connected with the white supremacist violence from the Civil Rights Era.

      As to your second point below, are you seeking to compare American support for an attempt to throw off a decades long dictatorship for American support for propping up decades long dictatorships and the paramilitary forces of a former dictatorial regime?

      Are you seeking to justify the selling of arms to Iran and the financing of groups like the Contras?  The basic fact of the matter is that we were willing to support murder and repression in the Third World in order to support friendly regimes.

      I would not compare Obama’s support for a popular uprising in one country with Reagan’s support of military dictatorships in Central America.  I would more closely link Libya with Reagan’s support of Solidarity in Poland.

      • RobertLongView

        Solidarity is that the “U-U, U-U,
        Union” word?  Heaven forbid!  It is sacrilegious to even mention Reagan and Solidarity in the same
        breath.

    • Mike_Card

      Bomb throwers?  Newt is still running around free, too.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1155042916 Mike Hanson

        Ayer’s physically threw bombs and his wife, current Northwestern law professor, planted a bomb killing one Oakland police officer and crippling another. 

        • Mike_Card

          You were there?

        • DrJoani

          Is this another Fuxnews tidbit? not true, pal.

    • JGC

      The Ayers link is so…2008.  Is there anything fresh we can mull over before the 2012 vote?

  • J__o__h__n

    I can’t believe the Republicans aren’t going after the Obama administration’s faked Mars landing.

    • DrJoani

      WHAT?
      I think Romney and Co. landed on Mars.

      • TomK_in_Boston

        I think they landed on earth!

  • http://freeourfreemarkets.org/ Steve Banicki
  • http://freeourfreemarkets.org/ Steve Banicki

    This is a disgrace and justice needs to be sought.

    1. How is it that Goldman Sachs convinced the Justice Department that it was feasible to combine thousands…
    http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/08/09/goldman-says-sec-has-ended-mortgage-investigation/?comments#permid=43

  • http://freeourfreemarkets.org/ Steve Banicki

    The system must find ways for the parents to do their job. Many parents do not know how to help and/or do not have time because of working two or three jobs.One thing to do, probably funded by a private grant, is to develop an online program that would help students with homework. The Twin Cities was able to get $13-million from corporations, so why can’t we. (This program would be similar to one that is online for a student studying for his/her GED.) It would allow the student to work on his homework online and get instant feedback to measure their comprehension and progress. It gives the parent a vehicle to see the progress on a daily basis and see how much time and effort their child is putting forth.http://banicki.blogspot.com/2010/08/system-must-find-ways-for-parents-to-do.html#more

  • J__o__h__n

    I’m really hoping Mitt picks Herman Cain for vice president.

    • TomK_in_Boston

      I’m rooting for class war General Paul Ryan. I don’t think we’ve had nearly enough discussion of his plan, endorsed by Etchasketch, to turn medicare into a Groupon to “save” it while cutting taxes on the oligarchs.

      • RobertLongView

        Ryan is such a hippocrite.  He lived off social security in college.  His dad’s family built the Interstate system in Wisconson.  Ryan has never had a real job or at least a real job that paid him more than $1800.  I wonde if he has even paid any federal taxes?

        • OnPointComments

          Ryan’s father died when Ryan was 16, and he received social security benefits.  If Ryan hadn’t made something of himself and had instead dropped out of school, gone on welfare, had out of wedlock children, didn’t have a job, and been arrested, you’d be screaming that his benefits weren’t enough.

          • JGC

            I don’t know enough yet about the circumstances of Ryan senior’s death, but  will try to look into it.  Were Social Security benefits a stabilizing force in their family permitting them to continue onward? Were they inconsequential?    I doubt Social Security was a destabilizing force. 

      • JGC

        You, sir, are the winner in the Romney Veepstakes!  Choose from this lovely selection of valuable prizes:  25% cut in your social security benefits (only if you are a member of Generation Screwed), 100% cut in your Obamacare benefit, or a roundtrip (one way?) ticket to Iran as part of our fabulous fighting forces…

        • TomK_in_Boston

          Well, the choice is clear now, as Etchasketch doubles down on the hard right Party Line: Total Thermonuclear Class Warfare vs the timid center-right Obama administration.

          I actually thought he’d try to soften his image. The combination of a greedy oligarch and a leading class warrior looks rather toxic. Obviously, they think, as they have said, they make their own reality. They can endorse turning medicare into a Groupon and turn around and tell seniors they are the champions of medicare.

          This election will be an IQ test.

  • Jeff Ewener

    I really can’t see what the hysteria is about, regarding the Obama-allied PAC’s so-called “Romney killed my wife” ad. As far I can see — and I’ve heard the ad about 5 times now, on various news shows — every logical step is filled in, from beginning to end. Don’t people know that this is what happens? Lose your job and you lose your health insurance. Without health insurance, most parents of (now-struggling) families will delay getting healthcare. Delayed healthcare results in missed and delayed diagnoses. And with cancer, when you delay the diagnosis long enough, what do you think happens? So is this Romney’s fault? Well, his actions started the chain of events that ended so tragically. I’m no ethicist, but I think one would have to twist himself into some pretty wild knots in order to absolve Romney completely. And this is far from a unique occurrance. Something like half of all bankruptcies in the USA are a result of healthcare costs. Most of those are the result of inadequate or non-existent insurance — and in a country where employers provide millions of people’s healthcare, a lot of that non-existent insurance is the result of boardroom decisions, to close factories, to re-write contracts, to lay people off, etc. So thousands and thousands of bankruptcies result from executive decisions every year. Do you really think disease and death do not? Bankruptcy is actually one of the more benign catastrophes that result — and I would say, DIRECTLY result — from the loss of health insurance. Did Romney kill his wife? You could argue the point, but to claim that the argument is somehow wildly off-the-board, out-of-bounds, out-of-this-world, that’s just specious. Actions have consequences, and money doesn’t come out of nothing, even in the private equity business.

    • keltcrusader

      Excellent post!

    • TomK_in_Boston

      Yes, there is nothing false in the ad, and it highlights what happens to those victimized by the financial con gamers in the only developed nation that lets predatory insurance corporations run its health care system.

      Re another question, my model for a country with a successful economic system is……the USA, in the 50s and 60s, when we had high taxes at the top and strong regulation of the corporations, and corporate execs who didn’t feel demeaned by collecting “only” 50x a worker’s salary.

      • http://tfrx.livejournal.com/ TFRX

        I guess the kicker for me is that uberlords who fire little people all the time, for any reason, and say “It’s nothing personal. Only bidness.”

        Of course, this leads into my wonderment of the CEO fetish. It’s predictable to some, amazing to others, how gobsmacked that same class is when something done impersonally can ruin lives.

    • RobertLongView

      Just goes to show how out of touch Romney and his shameless plutocrats are with the rest of America.  The buzzards have come home to roost in the Ivory Tower where our Blue Collar blood drips from the gargoyle fangs…. .

    • Duras

      I think it is nice that liberals finally got a national conversation about people dying because they don’t have healthcare.  Republicans took the bait, so to say. 

      I don’t see how people can be against a policy that saves lives. 

      As for the other issue: it is pragmatic in business to be without empathy most of the time.  But government’s supreme goal is to protect the lives of the citizens.  The reason why humans came out of the wilderness and developed societies was to protect one and another.  But sometimes, the primeavel ape-man wants to turn society back into a jungle.  I think we are all culpable to some extent: in a republic, government is nothing more than the people’s will and we could have had national healthcare along time ago but there are people who deny progress and are ignorant that people’s lives can be prolonged. 

      I think it mostly has to do with religion.  In Foucault’s Discipline & Punish, he talks about the death penalty across Western history.  When society relished the death penalty the most, was when society was ardently religious.  In the dialogues that he cites, there is almost a complete denial of the human body and an emphasis on the soul.  The more seculur society became, the more human beings started to see the body.  Eventually, the death penalty became a private affair because it was too horrible for modern sensibility to see in public.  (This is why conservatives are talking out of their butt when they say that the death penalty will curtail crime.  If that is so, why don’t we have public executions?  If we did have public executions, the death penalty would be abolished in America within a year.  Only a minority of blood-lust republicans would argue for it.) 

      Anyway, I think America does its best to deny mortality.  And we need to be reminded of it–that life is precious.  And that guy in the Obama ad, shaking with anger that his wife is gone and could have been saved either by compassion from CEOs or the public’s will to pass national healthcare is saying something far more damaging about the right wing at large than Romney alone.   They need to stop being insensitive to life and aloof of the interconnectedness of society.

  • Duras

    Branstand,

    Okay, name one country that is successful both with economics and human rights that is likened to your political vision?  What period in American History does your political vision exist?

    I can name several countries and am prepared to talk about the economic conditions in America during our most successful periods.  Just give me an model that you are shooting for!

    I’ll give you mine: Germany.  Germany works hard and pays their taxes, they have zero college tuition, free healthcare, the strongest renewable energy initiative in the world and nowhere near the amount of brown outs America endures, and a robust infrastructure.  That’s just one.  I can talk about Canada, South Korea, Brazil, Japan, the Nordic countries, and America during the 20th Century. 

    Where’s your economic model?  Name one.

  • Potter

    Tom feeds Jack the McCarthy comparison, Jack the
    guy I depend on for moral rectitude, and Jack goes for it. It’s an outrageous
    comparison between what Joe McCarthy did and what Harry Reid is attempting
    to  do. No way does this match McCarthy’s
    committee on un-American Activities except in the most superficial way.

     

    Harry Reid’s attempt to pry information from
    Romney about his tax returns is information for us voters for President.  And then it’s more legitimate than “birther”
    allegations that Obama was not born in the US for that matter, which forced
    Obama to prove where he was born. What is Romney hiding?

     

    Jack redeems himself when he says that Romney’s
    accusation regarding work and welfare is “wreckless mendacity”. Romney lies
    blatantly attacking Obama then he whines when he is attacked and cries for a time out.

  • nudistguy2

    How is it possible for Romney to have contributed 100 million dollars to an IRA when the annual, maximum contribution is $6000.00?  Clearly Romney is NOT paying his fair share of taxes when he is able to do this.  Do the math: he would have to be close to 2000 years of age to have contributed this amount, or he has managed to find some loophole that the rest of us are not privy to.  Small wonder that he does not want the rest of us to see his tax returns.  Sounds like robbery to me.  And we wonder why we are running at a deficit if he and others are able to do this.  I would love an explanantion to this!

    • OnPointComments

      If you had invested $1,000 with Romney’s firm Bain Capial at the start of his tenure with the firm, it would have been worth more than $39 million when Romney left 14 years later.  When you have that kind of return on investment, you can get to $100 million.  He’s just what the country needs.  We gave President Obama the $800 billion he wanted, and he spent it and lost $5 trillion in less than four years.

      • JGC

        Dag nab it!  If only we had given the $800 billion to Gov. Bane Romney to invest, we could have stashed it in an offshore account, earnings at 15% nontaxable with a double deduction pike and a 1 and 1/2% currency twist! 

        Instead, we sadly invested it in our own country and workers, and we are still only treading water until the hopeful day the rest of the Republican-lead congress gets on board…  

      • http://tfrx.livejournal.com/ TFRX

        If only I’d invested in that organized crime loansharking rather than pay the bills my wastrel relatives ran up.

    • JGC

      It is even more remarkable when you consider that for the greater part of the contribution time (the 1980s and well into the 1990s), the maximum annual contribution for the Little People was only $2000 (plus an additional $250 for the non-employed spouse).  This maximum contribution was gradually raised from $2000 upward to (now?) $6000 over the next 15 or 20 years, as our congressional leaders saw fit and were able to negotiate TOGETHER.    Except there apparently is an Offshore Accountants Only “special annual contribution” amount of $30,000.00, which Romney would have qualified for; so in addition to this much higher annual amount, they (Mitt and Ann, for example) were also able to put their money in a down-valued Bain offshore hidey-hole stock, which will only miraculously gain its true, full multi-million-$ value when cashed out (under the right circumstances, of course) during the Romney Golden Years.  Of course, in the intervening 20 or 30 years or so, the Little People have been contributing their earnings  to a 401K which has probably been skimming close to 2% off the top before any additional earnings have been realized in their favor.      To be clear, is any of this illegal? No. (Basic information found at the Wall Street Journal).

      Welcome to the Romney Golden Years!     

    • TomK_in_Boston

      I suspect in part it is another con by a financial con man.  They simply put a Bane scam which nobody but them can evaluate in the IRA and say it’s worth $6,000 when it’s really worth $600,000. Then as the real value emerges, you have a great “return on investment”, LOL. 

      There’s not a penny of wealth creation in the Bane con game, just redistribution of wealth from the victims to the romney types.

      IRAs were created by law as a vehicle for retirement savings, not as tax shelters for financial snake oil salesmen. 

      The financial manipulators are a cancer on the economy. We should be considering how to get rid of them, not proposing them for high office.

      • nudistguy2

        OK; I get the whole wealth evaluation scam.  My confusion stems from what I thought could actually be deposited into an IRA, i.e. “money,” “dollars,” “dinero,” and not real estate, not real property, not anything other than actual dollars.  I mean, most people I know have “money” transferred from their bank or credit union accounts that then goes into their IRA account, or they have “money” set aside out of their paycheck through an employer-sponsored plan.  So, again, I have to ask, just how does one go about contributing anything other than actual “money” into an IRA???

        • Mike_Card

          Securities could be contributed to IRA accounts, including securities that were not publically-traded.  The only restriction was $2000 per individual or $2250 on a one-earner joint income tax return.  Most people simply contributed cash, since that was what they had and the value was obvious.  Willard owned privately-held securities which he very likely valued–since nobody was going to challenge him–at close to zero.

      • OnPointComments

        Do you think the 125,000 employees of the companies in which Bain invested and which grew under Bain ownership would agree that there wasn’t any wealth created?

        • Mike_Card

          There are surely many employees in India, Mexico, the Philippines, China, Malaysia, etc. who are quite pleased with Bain’s efforts in wealth creation.

  • RobertLongView

    MCCain has looked at 23 years of Romney tax returns — so he (or others in the MCCain-Palin 2008 campaign?) is the mostly Reid’s sources.  

    What goes around comes around in 2012 for the Birthers and Swift Boaters.   

  • Mike_Card

    Are you listening DISQUS?  Or is your shift over?

  • JGC

    Gregg wrote a recent well-considered reply to my question about his perspective on horse therapy and 5-figure tax deductions, from two weeks ago in Week in the News: Romney Abroad, Penn State Sanctioned, Olympics Gear Up.  He has a farm with stables, and said they have been involved with Hippotherapy for the past 15 years, and has seen many amazing outcomes for the children who are autistic and/or have physical disabilities.  “Hope is priceless,” he wrote, and well it is, although he was careful to note that hippotherapy is a specialty requiring many, many volunteers, special tack and wheelchair ramps, licensed physical therapists and other requirements (not without cost, of course). Gregg also said he could not speak to the tax situation, although he does know there are some deductions and horses have been donated to his farm for this purpose.  

    It is a great post and worth looking up to read in its entirety. I have a relative with Multiple Sclerosis (just like Ann Romney), and I know a local family with an autistic child who has been assigned a therapy dog, and my own son enjoys riding and caring for a horse when he can; so I can connect the dots and see that hippotherapy is extremely beneficial to those clients who have communication, physical and confidence challenges.

    As to the tax part, I made an error in assuming the Romney $70,000 tax deduction was for therapeutic benefit.  Although therapeutic riding  is what initially engaged Ann Romney in her interest in horses, she is actually claiming the $70,000 as a business deduction in the event there are any future business profits as a co-owner of Rafalco.  

  • JGC

    Romney/Ryan 2012!  Let’s get energizzzzzzzzzz….

    • JGC

      zzzzzzzzzzzz…

  • http://tfrx.livejournal.com/ TFRX

    Please keep putting real words up about Ryan’s imaginary numbers.

  • http://tfrx.livejournal.com/ TFRX

    “The news site The Daily Caller”

    Submitted without comment.

  • http://freeourfreemarkets.org/ Steve Banicki
  • http://freeourfreemarkets.org/ Steve Banicki
  • JGC

    Did I just hear Gov. Romney introduce new running mate Rep. Ryan as “the next President of the United States”?   Quick, we need the NPR in-house psychologist to explain this Freudian slip, pronto…

  • Duras

    Remember when Ryan introduced his first budget, and Obama decided to address it to the press.  Obama invited Ryan and he sat in the front row as Obama tore it apart.  When the press asked Ryan for comment, he said, “Um, um, I didn’t appreciate Mr. Obama’s rhetoric.”

    Seriously, Ryan is nothing more than a cocksure ideologue.  He’s not smart.  I can do his job.  Watch:

    Cut social security, cut medicad, cut medicare (on the consumer side) cut education, cut scholarships, and cut taxes on the top, but don’t touch the military. 

    There’s the Ryan Budget.  Vote for me; I’m a serious and technical politician.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000464095829 Ann Greaney-Williams
    • Mouse_2012

       That’s how the republicans roll.

    • jefe68

      It’s called trying to fix the vote. As old as the hills.
      The GOP is going to use every dirty tactic in the book and them some to win this election. It’s pretty serious and every Democrat and independent who leans more towards the center/left and progressives had beteter get out there in droves in November. You want regressive inanity it’s there in the guise of the Romney/Ryan ticket.

  • TomK_in_Boston
  • http://freeourfreemarkets.org/ steve banicki

    Eight Questions To Romney/Ryan

    1. Are many banks too big to fail and should we consider breaking them up??2. Do free markets need an umpire as ascribed by Milton Friedman: “But we cannot rely on custom or conscious alone to interpret and enforce the rules; we need an umpire. These then are the basic role of government in a free society; to provide a means where we can modify rules, to mediate differences among us on the meaning of rules, and to enforce compliance with the rules on the part of those few who otherwise would not play the game.”3. Is the Supreme Court decision in Citizens United OK, or should it be repealed?4. Should anti-trust legislation be implemented to break up monopolies and oligopolies?5. Should we get out of Afghanistan?6. Should the health care law be amended to bust up the oligopolies in the insurance industry?7. What is more important to our long term survival; education or military?8. Should there be no tax increases on the super wealthy?

    • Mike_Card

      The questions are certainly pertinent, but we all know they won’t be answered.  We could just as sincerely ask whether the sky is blue or the sun rises in the east.  The answers from any elected officeholder will be equivocations.

    • JGC

      Question #9 for Romney/Ryan:  What do you have to say about reports Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu is planning to attack Iran this autumn, before the November U.S. election? What would this timing of an Israeli attack have on the Presidential election?  Would you support the Netanyahu government in this attack on Iran; if so, what support should the U.S. provide? 

  • http://freeourfreemarkets.org/ steve banicki

    The entry of Paul Ryan in the mix hopefully will bring out the details of just how each side proposes to get the debt under control. On April 13, 2011 President Obama said the following regarding his fiscal policy.
    ” So this is my approach to reduce the deficit by $4 trillion over the next 12 years. It’s an approach that achieves about $2 trillion in spending cuts across the budget. It will lower our interest payments on the debt by $1 trillion. It calls for tax reform to cut about $1 trillion in tax expenditures — spending in the tax code. And it achieves these goals while protecting the middle class, protecting our commitment to seniors, and protecting our investments in the future.”http://www.freeourfreemarkets.org/2012/08/campaign-2012-issues.html#more

    • Gregg Smith

      I’m not sure what baseline President Obama is referring to she he says he will “reduce the deficit by $4 trillion over the next 12 years”. It sounds to me like he is purposely conflating debt and deficit to cloud the issue. 

      We already know we can’t believe him so it doesn’t matter much what he says now.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaQUU2ZL6D8

    • Mike_Card

      If there is to be any conversation among adults concerning these issues–that seems to be the popular characterization–the first thing that needs to happen is that all elected and appointed and hired (i.e., lobbies) politicians and operatives need to be run out of the room, preferably into paddy wagons.

  • http://freeourfreemarkets.org/ steve banicki

    Paul Ryan said they will be releasing two years of tax returns to the public. As the man who may be one step away from being President I trust the person who vetted him has looked at more than two years of returns.

    This is true of anyone running for President. The ones who are vetting those who are running for the highest office in the land have a right to review at least five years of tax returns. It is the citizens of this country who are vetting Presidential candidates. 

    Mr. Romney, where are your tax returns?
    http://www.freeourfreemarkets.org/2012/07/is-romney-trustworthy.html

  • Gregg Smith
  • LoganEcholls

    Often times, when you are applying for a mortgage you have to provide several years of tax returns.  That is only for a ~$200,000 loan.  Romney wants to the leader of the richest nation on the planet, and he expects to get there without disclosing his complete financial history?  Why isn’t this a requirement for all elected politicians?

  • Michele

    McCarthyism when asking for tax returns but Birthers are not McCarthyesque?  Really?  Oh, I forgot no one is allowed to question or insult the Republicans. However Republicans can besmirch anyone they choose.  BTW if you disagree with me you are unpatriotic. All Hail McCarthy!!

    • Gregg Smith

      I don’t think tax returns are required beyond two years and even there it’s not a matter of law. 

      Obama is the only one I’ve heard use the word “unpatriotic” when referring to Bush’s $4 trillion debt over 8 years. Obama added $5 trillion in 3 years. Go figure.

      • Michele

         Are you kidding?  You miss the entire point of my post.  We had 8 years under Bush where questioning of policies of any kind was painted as unpatriotic.  Republicans continue to wrap themselves in the flag and they are the “deciders” of what is American and un-American.

        • Gregg Smith

          I realize it’s a talking point but it did not happen. Obama is the only one to use the term.

          • Michele

            Do you mean in the last month or ever? Because if you are suggesting “ever” than you are sadly mistaken. The unpatriotic trope has been trotted out for years by the Right.

        • RobertLongView

          “Yer fer us, er yer agin us,”  i believe paraphased here.  Any ways, gits the point across in the low hill country.  Code.  

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