Week In The News: Romney Abroad, Penn State Sanctioned, Olympics Gear Up

Mike Card

Well, Willard probably won’t return from Europe claiming that he’s been brainwashed. He has not demonstrated any ability to learn from experience or actual contact with people, only position memoranda.

The possibility of his representing the country to the rest of the world absolutely boggles the mind: I believe the term, “enormity,” is approprite in that case.

Hidan

Willard can even flip flop overseas.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/mitt-romney/9431064/Mitt-Romneys-Olympics-gaffe-overshadows-visit-to-London.html
- DrewInGeorgia
  
  It’s getting to where even seeing a picture of him literally makes me want to regurgitate. He’s not even in office and he provokes a greater sense of revulsion than his previous incarnation did when elected.
  - LinP
    
    So totally agree with you. For most of 8 years I switched the TV or radio stations whenever I heard GWB’s voice. He simply revolted me so much I could not even listen to the man. It’s the same with Romney, already, as my revulsion has built since living lived through a Romney-reign in MA. I cannot imagine that man leading this country.
  - Hidan
    
    Mitt has no Moral basis and it’s even hard for the sheep(Rush lovers and the like) on the right to get behind the guy.
    
    His trip to Israel is really to show the evangelical he loves Israel and Obama(somehow) doesn’t. Sure ads in the near future will show this.
- John in Amherst
  
  Olympic flip-flops might have great marketing potential… Maybe raise some campaign cash?
Newton Whale

After yesterday I doubt that a brainwash will be necessary.

I think a light rinse would suffice.

http://war.blogcarnival.com/archives/2007/06/mitt_romney_all.html

Hidan

No Kidding: The Most Incoherent Tom Friedman Column Ever

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/no-kidding-the-most-incoherent-tom-friedman-column-ever-20120725

And, for me, the lesson of Iraq is quite simple: You can’t go from Saddam to Switzerland without getting stuck in Hobbes — a war of all against all — unless you have a well-armed external midwife, whom everyone on the ground both fears and trusts to manage the transition. In Iraq, that was America.

Got that? Here’s the second passage:

Because of both U.S. incompetence and the nature of Iraq, this U.S. intervention triggered a civil war in which all the parties in Iraq – Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds – tested the new balance of power, inflicting enormous casualties on each other and leading, tragically, to ethnic cleansing that rearranged the country into more homogeneous blocks of Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds.

This pair of passages can be summed up in a Friedman-syllogism:

1. Syria will not become Switzerland unless it has the kind of help America gave to Iraq.

2. When America helped Iraq, it triggered a terrifying four-sided
civil war that left the country reeling in blood-soaked, genocidal
chaos and hopelessly partitioned along ethnic and religious lines – very
much like Switzerland, where a diverse collection of ethnic groups
speaking different languages live peacefully under democratic rule.

3. Therefore, when your wife needs help giving birth, she should hire a midwife who stands outside the door and carries an automatic weapon.

TFRX

“Most incoherent Mustache of Understanding column ever?”

I wouldn’t carve that in stone for another six months.
freedom fries

Isn’t Friedman always incoherent? I usually feel like I fell in the rabbit hole when I read/listen his ravings…..

Hidan

Supposedly Mr. Friedman is an supposed F.P expert/Journalist

http://www.salon.com/2012/07/25/the_value_of_tom_friedman/

http://www.listener.co.nz/commentary/the-internaut/thomas-friedman-sizes-up-new-zealand/

More of Tom Incoherent thinking
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/20111022

45 minutes in he gets pissed that the host question him about how much he makes or how much taxes should be paid by the rich and how much the poor and middle class should pay.

The New York Times op-ed writer’s take on Australasia is full of generalizations. But it’s better than lots of his stuff.

Hidan

Also I hope Tom and Guest could talk about the “Audit the Fed Bill” that passed the House on an actual bi-partisan basis and it was House Dem leadership attempted to use it’s whip to vote against this.

16 Trillion in Guarantees to many of the Bailed out banks and even Foreign Banks.

http://www.salon.com/2012/07/26/protectors_of_wall_street/

Amazing enough it was the Democrat Leadership(not the republicans that are protecting Wall Street)

The first top-to-bottom audit of the Federal Reserve uncovered eye-popping new details about how the U.S. provided a whopping $16 trillion in secret loans to bail out American and foreign banks and businesses during the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. . . . “As a result of this audit, we now know that the Federal Reserve provided more than $16 trillion in total financial assistance to some of the largest financial institutions and corporations in the United States and throughout the world,” said Sanders. “This is a clear case of socialism for the rich and rugged, you’re-on-your-own individualism for everyone else.”

DrewInGeorgia

Check out Mr. Romney’s guest list for his International Relations Campaign when you get a chance. Almost all of the Big Boys participating in Creative Accounting will be represented.

Why does Romney repeatedly receive top billing for Week In The News?

Why do recent Financial Improprieties never make the list?

Take a look at yourself in the mirror On Point:

Week In The News: Romney Abroad, Penn State Sanctioned, Olympics Gear Up

Week In The News: Campaign Barbs, Killer Drought, Syria Blast

Week In The News: Taxes, Romney And The NAACP, Minimum Wage In Scranton

Week In The News: God Particle, Barclays, Health Care Fallout

Week In The News: Health Care, Immigration, Wildfires

Week In The News: Egypt, Clemens, Holder

Week In The News: Syria, Colorado, Sandusky

Week In The News: Wisconsin, Syrian Massacre, Transit of Venus

Week In The News: Syria, Romney, Bad Jobs Report

Week In The News: Elections In Egypt, Europe Limps, Facebook Stock Chaos

What’s wrong with this picture?

DrewInGeorgia

Apologies to all for the bold, it deserves the added attention in my view though.
- J__o__h__n
  
  I’ll forgive it this time although I generally don’t read anything posted here in bold as I find it annoying.
  - DrewInGeorgia
    
    As do I, I just hoped it might help the relevant parties try to take an objective look at themselves. I’m out, have a good one and thanks for not taking offense.
Yar

Drew, you make a valid point. I recommend the book
Too Much Magic: Wishful Thinking, Technology, and the Fate of the Nation
byJames Howard Kunstler�
Maybe Tom read it on vacation. I would love to see a show discussing Kunstler’s book.
What does it mean to win an election as the nation becomes ungovernable?
Nick

Good observation, Drew. Since crimes in the financial sector are often above the understanding of everyday Americans, they are not as easily recognized and frowned upon as, say, the shooting in Aurora.

Kairos

I think the English are a little too sensitive when it comes to their manners. Not that I think Romney is a citizen of the world, but the English need to relax. Obviously, Romney doesn’t understand foreign policy, which is why he can only say that “Obama is weak” without explaining what is strong and what he would do otherwise. Or he criticizes Obama for “apologizing for America,” which is wrong. Obama isn’t apologizing for America; Obama is apologizing for George Bush and the republicans. And it looks like Obama might have to apologize for Romney already.

Whatever. I just wanted to say that I remember when conservatives criticized Michelle Obama for putting her hand on the back of Queen Elizabeth. Doubtful that the conservatives remain consistent with what happened this week….

Newton Whale

The first part of Romney’s statement has gotten a lot of play, and it certainly is rude and thoughtless.

But the rest of what he said is just incomprehensibly insulting:

“…there are three parts that makes Games successful. Number one, of course, are the athletes. That’s what overwhelmingly the Games are about. Number two are the volunteers. And they’ll have great volunteers here. But number three are the people of the country. Do they come together and celebrate the Olympic moment? And that’s something which we only find out once the Games actually begin.”http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/26/mitt-romney-olympics-blunder This is just flat out demeaning the character of the British people. What on earth was he thinking? Any parent of a child past the age of 7 would be mortified if they behaved that way.Which is why Cameron slapped him down. Hard: “We are holding an Olympic Games in one of the busiest, most active, bustling cities in the world. Of course it’s easier if you hold an Olympic Games in the middle of nowhere.” Mitt Romney. Nowhere ManHe’s a real nowhere Man,
Sitting in his Nowhere Land,
Making all his nowhere plans
for nobody.

Doesn’t have a point of view,
Knows not where he’s going to, So, let us summarize:This trip was supposed to show that Romney could represent the US overseas with seriousness, decorum, and respect.Fail. Fail. Megafail.As an added bonus, it was supposed to remind people of his heroic work saving the 2002 Olympics. Instead, his rudeness meant that even that got mocked.And the Magical Mittstery Tour rolls on.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfWEPu0w-7w

DrewInGeorgia

“Number one, of course, are the athletes”

That’s why they receive such a generous portion of generated revenue, right Mr. Romney?
- TFRX
  
  Glad we’ve gotten past the point of “Slavery Brundage” and shamateurism with the IOC.
  
  I did read about professional musicians being asked to play for the “glory” of it at this Olympics, rather than “scale”.
Brett

I can remember teaching myself double backbeats listening to Ringo’s drumming on Rubber Soul! In fact, Ringo was the backbeat king!
Worried for the country(MA)

Rude and thoughtless? Did you even hear it? It was very benign.

Even Piers Morgan said there was nothing wrong with what Mitt said despite the media attempt to create a controversy.
- John in Amherst
  
  Benign, perhaps, in the way that W trying to give Angela Merkle a massage was benign, and TOTALLY inappropriate. Mitt continues to demonstrate his unfamiliarity with social norms, and his inability to resist trying to sound like an authority figure without actually contributing any positive ideas…

Hidan

Racist Dani Dayan says what many Israeli in the government believe.(don’t expert Onpoint to address this) nor the uptick in settler violence, nor the uptick In Israeli violence against both African Jews an Africans immigrants(infiltrators or cancer are what they/Israeli officials who have 52% of the Israeli population support such label calls them)

Since Mitt is going to Israel and all I bet he addresses the below(sarcasm)

52% of Israeli Jews agree: African migrants are ‘a cancer’
http://www.timesofisrael.com/most-israeli-jews-agree-africans-are-a-cancer/

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/israel-can-t-be-a-democracy-with-two-classes-of-citizens-1.328330

Almost all the survey’s findings point to this trend. A majority of the public supports predicating voting rights on a declaration of loyalty to the state; only 17% of the public believes the state’s self-definition as a democracy should take precedence over its self-definition as Jewish; an absolute majority believes that only Jews should be involved in decisions crucial to the state; a majority supports allocating more resources to Jews than Arabs; a third of Jewish citizens support putting Arab citizens in detention camps in wartime; and about two-thirds think Arabs should not become ministers.

One apartheid state, with liberty and justice for Jews only

http://mondoweiss.net/2012/07/one-apartheid-state-with-liberty-and-justice-for-jews-only.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/26/opinion/israels-settlers-are-here-to-stay.html?_r=2&hp

Dayan makes clear: Greater Israel (i.e., what others call the occupied territories) will not allow itself to be overrun by returning Palestinians). That’s out of the question. The bizarre Israeli concept of democracy rests on controlling the demographic threat such that there must never be a Palestinian majority in the one state. So long as Jews are the majority, the thinking goes, they may in good conscience oppress the minority. That is the meaning of majoritarian democracy (also known as ethnocracy) as understood by Israeli Jews; a bill of rights protecting all does not figure in to this system.

Rather, he is the chairman of the settler council in the “Jewish Communities in Judea and Samaria” (to the rest of us aka the occupied Palestinian territories). He speaks truth to (1) the leadership of the Western world, too cowardly ever to challenge the voracious Israeli appetite for Lebensraum; to (2) all those Jewish organizations that supported Israeli aggression and colonialism through thick and thin in the name of a “two-state solution” that was being obviated by the very acts they supported; and to (3) all those individual Jews who have mouthed the two-state lies themselves while also denying the aggression and colonialism to critics. I know plenty of the number 3′s myself, and I know that many of you do, too.

But the mask has been removed, revealing the ugly face of Israeli colonialism for all to see. The time for denial has ended, because this, then, is the dystopian vision of the single state of Greater Israel, in which the Palestinian population will live in its bantustans under the oppressive thumb of the Jewish overlords as Israeli Jewish colonists expand their illegal reach to every corner of Palestine, what the rest of the world considers the OPT (occupied Palestinian territories). The solution (Lebensraum) to the Israeli housing crisis lies on stolen land.

Rights groups: Spike in Israeli settler violence

http://www.aljazeerah.info/News/2012/July/26%20n/Illegal%20Israeli%20Settlers%20Storm%20Al-Aqsa%20Mosque,%20Triggering%20Clashes%20in%20Jerusalem,%20Condemnations,%20July%2026,%202012.htm

http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2012/07/11/rights_groups_spike_in_israeli_settler_violence/

Wm. James from Missouri

Just wanted to shine some light on the problems of the world !

_

… procedure that may allow doctors to perform surgery without ever having to cut through your skin,

_

http://media.caltech.edu/press_releases/13523

_
_

Would you like to see around corners?

Ramesh Raskar: Imaging at a trillion frames per second

_
_
http://www.ted.com/talks/ramesh_raskar_a_camera_that_takes_one_trillion_frames_per_second.html

Brett

Thanks for the links, Wm. James of Missouri; it’s a nice surprise for a poster to actually provide something to positively stimulate me this early in the morning!

Ed

The anti-Catholic health care bill goes into effect in August: large organizations can apply for a year delay, but business people have to start to participate. And there were many, many waivers to the president’s friends, but none to Catholic institutions, of course, and Catholic business people have to act against their conscience. I thought this was America.

Brett

Well, the Church itself is exempt. Only the businesses in which the Church has chosen to participate are not. One might remind you of two things, Ed, which you never seem to mention: 1) those businesses get tax exempt status and 2) Catholic hospitals receive government funds (they take Medicaid, Medicare and other funds). Also, many of their patients who receive governmental assistance such as SSI and SSA, pay bills using those funds (the remainders of bills not covered by Medicaid and Medicare, if you will). So, if you want to talk conscience, maybe those institutions could forego their tax exempt status…eh, we both know that’ll never happen.
- Ed
  
  The government makes a deal with the Church. There are lots of poor people to take care of, and the Church wants to do it and does it well. So, the government contracts with the Church by giving it tax exemption in return for doing a service they can’t do as well or as inexpensively. It’s a good deal for the government, which they themselves are putting in jeopardy.
  And that’s aside from the issue of religious freedom. The businesses who have to comply starting in August don’t get any federal funds at all.
  - J__o__h__n
    
    If you don’t want to follow the same rules as every other service provider, don’t take government money.
    - Gregg
      
      Do they take government money?
    - J__o__h__n
      
      They do and Ed’s post mentions that they do.
    - Brett
      
      Oh yeah, I forgot about the tax exempt deal itself! Thanks, Ed and John. Looks like the Church, as it is so affectionately called, has its hand out to the government in all kinds of ways!
    - Brett
      
      What part of accepting Medicaid/Medicare reimbursements don’t you understand, Gregg, of many Gs?
    - Gregg
      
      Reimbursements? Is that giving them money? Is a tax exempt status giving them money? No. it’s letting them keep what is theirs. Many think it’s belongs to the government and letting them keep it is the same as a subsidy? It’s not. That’s a bugaboo of mine and I see that assumption all the time. That was my point.
      
      However. GWB did start a program to help churches with charity which may actually give money. I’m not sure. Even if so, it does not give government the right to infringe on their religious freedoms. I believe that was Ed’s point.
    - Brett
      
      You’d call a cat a dog if it bolstered your ideological view of the world. Essentially, a Medicaid reimbursement, for example, is like a governmental kickback, what’s worse is the Federal matching funds for every state dollar paid out. Considering your state taxes pay for Medicaid in your state, you’re being taxed twice so that the Catholic hospitals in your state can do business. Make no mistake about it, The Church is in it for the money, which is why they want limits on reproductive services for women; it means the competition might just have a competitive edge in the services THEY offer. Do some Googling, and you’d realize the insane profits Catholic hospitals make. If it were simply a matter of providing needed services in a given area (without those handsome feeds to bankroll the Vatican, etc.), The Church would not be in that business. It’s either naive or disingenuous to think otherwise.
      
      P.S.-W started the whole “faith-based initiative” because he wanted some political cover when he started cutting social programs.
    - Gregg
      
      You can say something is essentially a government kickback but that was not the charge and it’s an opinion. MEdicaid reimbursements are not a license to infringe on religious freedom. Ed’s right.
      
      “You’d call a cat a dog if it bolstered your ideological view of the world.”
      
      Please don’t tell me what I think.
  - Brett
    
    So, you’re saying that Catholic hospitals won’t accept Medicaid/Medicare starting in August? Substantiate your claim, please.
  - Brett
    
    What? They’ll no longer be tax exempt?
J__o__h__n

The church is exempt. Then they start whining about service providers should be able to deny the same things to their employees as any other employer. Now they want to expand it to any business owner should be able to deny coverage? The Constitution exempts churches and that’s it.
Chris B

Exactly correct. It is America, not Vatican City. It means you’re free to follow whatever belief system you care to. It does NOT mean that the rest of the population has to bend over backwards to accommodate your idiosyncrasies.
John in Amherst

Once again, this is not anti Catholic legislation, it merely prevents the church from imposing its morality on people who don’t believe a bunch of celibate old men should dictate how women manage their health.
Don’t agree with birth control? don’t use it. Don’t believe in abortion? Don’t have one. Don’t you believe “Judgement Day” is the time people answer for their choices? The Bible advises that judgement if God’s to make – not yours, not the GOP’s.

Brett

Romney has sure put his foot in his mouth with the Brits! Diplomatic acumen? How about the diametric opposite? …Looks as though old Romney has the finesse of our W!

Gregg

It was a little bit of a gaffe but nowhere near on the same level as returning Churchill’s bust or giving their blind PM a set of DVDs.
- J__o__h__n
  
  I thought the problem with the DVDs was that they were for the wrong region.
  - Gregg
    
    That too.
    - J__o__h__n
      
      See, I’m fair and balanced and accurate.
    - nj_v2
      
      You must watch FOX.
    - J__o__h__n
      
      No, I included accurate.
    - Gregg
      
      I don’t agree about Fox but I do believe accuracy without “fair and balanced” can be highly destructive in the hands of biased reporting. It’s so easy to take a kernel of truth, turn it into a false premise and run with it. I’m just wondering if you think NPR is fair and balanced. I sure don’t. They can be accurate at times.
    - J__o__h__n
      
      They aren’t perfect but I think they do a better job than most.
- ana
  
  Why would an American President want a bust of a Brit in his office? We have our own great. Obama opted to bring Lincoln into the office, why not.
  It is trivial in the whole scheme, but you make like it is an act of treason.
  - JGC
    
    I hear Romney is commissioning a bust of Alan Greenspan to place in the Oval Office…
    - J__o__h__n
      
      Romney probably already has a solid gold one of himself.
  - Gregg
    
    It was a thumb is the eye to Britain. At least he didn’t give back the statue of liberty.
    - ana
      
      Yes and soon the Brits are going find a way to retaliate. It is such a profoundly serious issue.
      You need to grow up and quit the petty nonsense.�
      Abraham Lincoln an appropriate bust in the Oval office.�
      The Churchill bust was ON LOAN.
      Sorry to belabor this non issue, but Gregg’s misreprestentation of the truth needs to be challanged.
    - Gregg
      
      I think you missed the point Ana, which was J_O_H_N_’s comment IMO about Romney’s statement was petty. What Romney said is not in the same universe, insult wise, to what Obama did with the bust.
      
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/4623148/Barack-Obama-sends-bust-of-Winston-Churchill-on-its-way-back-to-Britain.html
      
      It has nothing to do with Lincoln.
      
      What truth did I misrepresent? That’s quite a charge, spell it out or apologize… or let your lack of either further define you.
    - J__o__h__n
      
      If something is a loan, doesn’t that imply they want it back? If you would like to loan me $10,000 (to name a Romney like sum) I would be glad to not risk insulting you and keep it.
    - Brett
      
      You’re citing The Telegraph? That conservative rag? Look at the way the article is written. Obama said, “thanks, but no thanks”? To Churchill’s bust? That’s not journalism, that’s sensationalist propaganda! Of course when one of those rags talks about Romney’s Olympic gaffe, you’re all set to dismiss it. You get the partisan hack lifetime achievement award! Oh, and that was cute, telling Anna if she didn’t respond to you, she was proving something undesirable about herself. Frankly, Romney could have said something benignly supportive about the London Olympics; it was ego (i.e., he couldn’t help himself because he knows about running the Olympics).
    - Brett
      
      What are you going to say next, that Obama threw the bust on the stoop at 10 Downing Street and said, ‘Lick two fingers, duckies!”? …A thumb in the eye to Britain? Oh, please; maybe you’re being just a tad hyperbolic?
    - Gregg
      
      Are you serious? Yea, it was a big deal and offense was taken. Certainly more so than the Romney thing. You don’t have to agree., but I’m not alone. Give me a left-wing British paper of record and I’ll google up a report for you.
    - J__o__h__n
      
      I thought the Republicans hate the French. What about Freedom Fries?
    - Brett
      
      If W had wanted to give back the Statue of Liberty after 9/11, I’m sure Gregg of many Gs would have thought that was appropriate.
    - Gregg
      
      Not at all. Please don’t tell me what I think Mr. Strawman.
- Brett
  
  Yes, Gregg of many Gs, it was a gaffe. I was making a bit of a joke; it wasn’t very serious. However, without a script, Romney is a bit of a gaffe-meister. He’s on par with Biden, the difference being Biden has a regular-guy quality that Romney couldn’t buy…But, then, you’d defend a piece of toast if it were running against Obama.
  - Gregg
    
    I not defending anything, I’m saying Obama is worse than a piece of toast. I would gladly prefer the toast to this disaster.

J__o__h__n

Mitt Romney’s pathetic attempt to surround himself with Olympic glory and show off his foreign policy skills is off to a disastrous start. Despite his common Anglo-Saxon heritage, he insulted his hosts and was rebuked by Conservative Prime Minister David Cameron and Conservative Mayor of London Boris Johnson. Cameron even belittled Romney’s Utah Olympics as being easy to manage as Salt Lake City is in the “middle of nowhere.” Then Romney leaked that he met with the head of MI-6.

The only way Mitt can salvage this trip is if he has a photo op with Prince Charles and looks like less of a rich out of touch twit in comparison.

Hidan

Tall order there.

I heard even Prince Charles sees Romney as an out of touch twit.
Worried for the country(MA)

Oh no. Mitt spoke the truth. Terrible.
- Denis
  
  about what?
- John in Amherst
  
  Maybe he could continue in this tradition and tell us the truth about his taxes?

Gregg

President Obama is saying his plan worked. It’s delusional.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0etEmiCL8M&feature=player_embedded

Hidan

Wow straight from Mitt Channel. No spin there(not)

http://www.youtube.com/user/mittromney

People always check Gregg sources(it’s most likely some type of distortion or outright lie)
- Gregg
  
  It’s Mitt’s ad. He’s the source. Of course it’s on his your tube channel. What are you, nuts? Can you refute it?
  - J__o__h__n
    
    or refudiate it?
    - nj_v2
      
      Done.
    - Gregg
      
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfUYuIVbFg0
    - nj_v2
      
      Greggg, the Fox/Rushbot troll.
  - nj_v2
    
    Greggg is one of the most predictable, partisan hacks on the forum. Whatever effluent Limpballs/FOX/Hannity/etc. generate, the next day, Gregg—good little right-wing foot soldier that he is—parrots it.
    
    The Mittens ad took the “…it worked…” line completely out of context. It referred to Clinton-era policy.
    
    http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/07/26/we-tried-our-plan-fox-limbaugh-amp-co-truncate/187344
    
    “OBAMA: I’m running because I believe you can’t reduce the deficit — which is a serious problem, we’ve got to deal with it — but we can’t reduce it without asking folks like me who have been incredibly blessed to give up the tax cuts that we’ve been getting for a decade. (Applause.) I’ll cut out government spending that’s not working, that we can’t afford, but I’m also going to ask anybody making over $250,000 a year to go back to the tax rates they were paying under Bill Clinton, back when our economy created 23 million new jobs — (applause) — the biggest budget surplus in history and everybody did well.
    
    Just like we’ve tried their plan, we tried our plan — and it worked. That’s the difference. (Applause.) That’s the choice in this election. That’s why I’m running for a second term.”
    - Gregg
      
      The notion that returning to the Clinton rates would be anything but a complete disaster is the biggest lie ever because so many sheep believe it. The only thing sillier is the idea, 1)raising only the top rate is a Clinton policy and 2) it would do squat. Obama is a shameless liar and Media Matters is criminal with it’s tax exempt status. But keep on believin’ man.
    - nj_v2
      
      Awww, how cute. Look at what Greggg did there.
      
      Greggg now shifts and squirms, avoiding admitting that he and his sources were lying, disingenuous weasels by now claiming that the reference to “our plan” implied it referred to Obama and not Clinton.
      
      Now he just starts talking about the merits of the Clinton policy as if that’s what he thought the line referred to all along.
    - Gregg
      
      Obama said “We tried our plan and it worked”.
      
      He was not in Congress at the time and Clinton has come out against raising taxes on the top (Obama’s). Obama is no Bill Clinton. Clinton balanced budgets. Obama has trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see. Clinton worked with Republicans and reformed welfare. Obama undid it with an executive order. Clinton’s plan cannot be annexed by Obama.
      
      Do you ever think about things or just drink the kool-aid?
    - TFRX
      
      An anonymous hold has been placed on you comment; 60% of the board must approve before it appears.
      
      Clinton had grownup Republicans to work with*, not WATB tantrum-throwing infants. I’d ask you to learn the difference but it’d be a waste of my time.
      
      *Considering the Hunting of the President he underwent, that’s amazing to realize.
    - Gregg
      
      It went right over your head.
    - TFRX
      
      No point talking facts to yoyu.
    - nj_v2
      
      “We” as is “We Democrats”—it’s obvious from the overall context.
      
      It’s also obvious that you’re either much more of an obtuse dullard than i previously thought, or much more of a dissembling weasel than i previously thought.
  - jefe68
    
    So you believe what campaign ads tell you?
    I guess PT Barnum was right in your case.
    - Gregg
      
      Dude, it was a direct quote, in context, straight from Obama’s mouth. What the hell do you want?
      
      Did you look at Hidan’s ad? Did you note the deceptive wording to imply Romney was responsible for outsourcing when he was not? Meanwhile, Obama IS responsible for outsourcing billions of dollars of taxpayer money. And you want to sling baseless mud at me for an ad you cannot refute? That’s rich.
    - J__o__h__n
      
      He was responible. He might not have run day to day operations but as CEO, he was responsible.
    - Gregg
      
      No outsourcing occurred while he was CEO. That’s the lie.
    - J__o__h__n
      
      Yes it did. He was still on record as being CEO.
    - Gregg
      
      No he was gone. That his name was still on some forms it not significant. That’s what happens when a CEO leaves, it takes a while for the bureaucracy to catch up. The ad was misleading.
    - J__o__h__n
      
      Mitt claims he left in 1999 and it took them three years to not list him as CEO. Not a very efficient business.
    - TFRX
      
      That his name was still on some forms it not significant.
      
      Can I quote you if the IRS ever comes knocking at my door?

J__o__h__n

The biggest news of the week is that Sandy Weill called for breaking up the too big to fail banks he helped create.

MrNutso

Yeah. Now that I got mine, I think so maybe we shouldn’t have repealed Glass-Steagall.
TFRX

Didn’t Eric Cantor follow that up with “Let’s wait until unemployment is 6% before we do anything ‘crazy’ “?

Gregg

Could President Obama’s disdain for the private sector be any more plain?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=llQUrko0Gqw

Brett

Can your disdain for Obama be any more plain?
- Gregg
  
  Let me know if I can make it more clear, I’ll try. It’s rooted in his disdain for the private sector and the Constitution.

Hidan

Speaking of ads.

I was at a Chinese restaurant and the below came on showing Mitt Romney Singing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3oV6JyKnSs

Compare that to Gregg Video

nj_v2

I actually prefer this version of the song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_6L_zpIZUQ

nj_v2

We now interrupt this week’s omni-Romney coverage with news of something that actually may matter: Congress actually does something worthwhile!

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2012/07/senate-considers-tax-cuts-for-middle-income-earners.html

Senate Passes Bill to End Tax Cuts for High Income Earners

“The Senate voted 51 to 48 Wednesday to approve highly contested legislation that would raise taxes on high income earners while lowering taxes on middle income earners.”

Of course, every Republican voted against it.

Voting results:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=112&session=2&vote=00184

House vote next week.

Greyman

Can we expect any mention of WGBH’s acquisition of PRI? Is this an outright “purchase” (how can anyone tell when any “non-profit” entity is making the purchase . . . of some other putatively “non-profit” entity?)? or will CPB merely send WGBH an extra voucher to cover costs? (Would not be so surprising to hear that WGBH could afford the acquisition all by itself: those of us not residing in the Commonwealth have to imagine that untold billions that arrived in Massachusetts as horrendous cost-overruns for Boston’s “Big Dig” still lurk in institutional coffers there.)

Dr. Michael Ward

“Mitt the Twit,” declared The Sun tabloid, condemning Romney as a “wannabe president.”
The Independent headlined their take on Romney’s trip, “Romneyshambles”—accusing him of not only committing a diplomatic gaffe but later “the cardinal sin of U.S. politics, flip-flopping” on his criticism.
The Daily Telegraph suggested Romney’s “Olympic gaffe” had overshadowed his trip to London.
Meanwhile, the conservative Daily Mail slammed Romney as “devoid of charm, offensive and a wazzock.”
Romney’s comments led newscasts on both Sky News and the BBC on Thursday night and early Friday morning, just hours ahead of the Olympic opening ceremonies here.
“Is this guy really prepared to be president?” one Sky News reporter asked in his Thursday night report about Romney’s day in London. The reporter trashed the GOP candidate’s comments as “just daft.”

nj_v2

“Wazzock” Ha!

I love learning new words.

Che’ Riviera

Wilard Romney is looking like a complete boob this week in the U.K. Maybe he should stick to defending the super rich. I’d also like to point out that he is NOT being very supportive of his wife’s horse in the olympics.

MrNutso

I guess will just have to wait until the Olympics are over to see how they turn out.

TFRX

“The story about the private security firm (for the London games) not having enough people”, not fulfulling their contract, is disconcerting to Mitt?

No, it was totally predictable. So, Mitt, aren’t we glad nobody on the right in the US wants to go on a privatization binge?

J__o__h__n

Annoying people in France isn’t a good excuse to dodge the draft.

TFRX

There’s context to be had. Didn’t young Mitt demonstrate in favor of the Vietnam War while not serving in it? (I’m genuinely asking here.)
- J__o__h__n
  
  He supported it but I’m not sure if he advocated for it.
- J__o__h__n
  
  And don’t forget that he backed George Bush’s Iraq war while his five sons served their country by trying to elect Mitt.
- Mike Card
  
  Do not know for sure, but, after his dad’s episode with the generals, it seems unlikely. Nothing stopped Willard from enlisting for 2 years, then serving his missionary duty. He’s a draft dodger, just like Rove and Cheney. It’s laughable to hear him ranting away at the VFW convention.

MICHIGANJF

Jack,

Romney’s Gaffes aren’t “a sign of his sincerity!!!!”

That’s ludicrous!

When a person like Romney has nothing to offer, the ONLY way he can try to make himself look good is by criticizing others.

THAT is what Romney’s gaffes are about!!!

BTW, IS ROMNEY ever EVER GOING TO OFFER AN IDEA, INSTEAD OF ASININE PLATITUDES???

nj_v2

Ouch! Wade made the Obama/Osama slip. Better just to use Bin Laden.

J__o__h__n

Yesterday, All Things Considered had a story on Romney criticizing Obama on China. They had a Romney quote from the Republican debates, “China is stealing our intellectual property — our patents, our designs, our know-how, our brand names. They’re hacking into our computers, stealing information from not only corporate computers, but from government computers. And they’re manipulating their currency.” — The former job exporting CEO of Bain didn’t mention jobs in his list of complaints.

TFRX

Wow. Mitt’s bragging on the invasion of Iraq right up there as something that was, for better or worse, as needed and as important to this country as the Cold War in the 80s/fall of the Berlin Wall, or the Cuban Missile Crisis?

Talk about “commitment to a bit”!

Tony

Oh, Mittens. Stop with the laser focus on Reagan and remember what Teddy Roosevelt said; “Speak softly and carry a big stick”. That’s exactly what Obama’s been doing; ask bin Laden about the “big stick” part. Oh wait, you can’t.

And if your first trip abroad ends up with the *British* mad at you, why should we trust you with China or North Korea or the Middle East? Especially in a first term where you’d be throwing red meat to your base back home who thinks “American strength” means “acting like a swaggering bully”?

Glenn Pollock

Some Romney got out of the draft because he got married. So that means single men are only useful as gun fodder. This is from a person how is single and was drafted. Romney should have served like the rest of us no exceptions.

AC

i feel a little sorry for Romney, he’s kind of a nincompoop…
are you sure the Republican’s shouldn’t look for someone else? it’s not too late!!

Hidan

nincompoop(Bugs Bunny)
- JGC
  
  neoconpoop.

MICHIGANJF

Someone needs to call out Mckenzie on his distortion about americans “truly” favoring Romney over Obama on the economy (on nothing else, of course)…

In fact, Romney has NEVER polled better than a few points over Obama on the economy!!!!

… and THAT is due ONLY to Republican distortions and outright lies.

MrNutso

I like to hear from those who favor Romney on the economy what specific things Romney says he will do that they like. I think the slight edge comes from trumpeting that Romney worked in business.

Hidan

Wow a Pact? Not like reports coming out showing Israel’s racism and discrimination on the rise, or Israel racism against African Jews or Africans or laws pass that discriminates against it’s Non-Jewish citizens or the treatment of Palestinian children including hoods, shackles. Nor the Rightwing Likudnite retroactively trying to approve even settlements Israel itself deems illegal, add the 10k uprooted plants and trees, Add in Death to Arabs chanted by Israel’s third largest Party and the Laws that allow Jewish Israeli to legally block Non-Jews from living in there communitity and the list goes on.

Hidan

Jerry the weekly wingnut speaks again.

Americans should be loyal to America first not Israel.

John in Amherst

Oh, come now… I sure Romney puts the USA first, except maybe when trying to score boatloads of cash from Adelson and those who favor expanding Israel’s territory into the West Bank….

Susie_d

as per the discussion of romney evading service legitimately what about his 5 sons? didn’t he say when he ran in ’08 that none of his songs were serving because they were busy helping to get him elected, and that was their service to their country? why is this content not in the news?

JGC

If Romney is elected, I am quite sure in keeping with a long distinguished line of Republican neocon Chickenhawks, we will see him take us into some midEast misadventure, guns blazing and tanks rolling.
JGC

The Nation reported that 70% of Romney’s foreign policy advisors also did the same service for George W. Bush. I think I know where this will be taking us…

nj_v2

Okay, 29+ minutes into the program. Time to stop with the prez. campaign machinations and get to some real news.

Hidan

sorry you gotta wait till the last 2-3 minutes before the real news is talked about.
nj_v2

33+ minutes…

A bright, flashing light and a loud buzzer should go off in the studio at about the 22-minute mark. “Campaign-blather time is up!!!”

Robert

Romney is a tool and a very shady character to boot.

AC

but he does have nice hair
very presidential
- TFRX
  
  And shoulders a strangely mancrushing “liberal” TV yakker * can land a 747 on.
  
  (*Chris Matthews.)
  - AC
    
    i don’t know what that means?
  - AC
    
    o i got it!
Jennifer Linden

This from some keyboard monkey. Whatever.

AC

well, they DO say the mormon’s have excellent international connections from living and working in so many countries during their missions….

JGC

The only international connections Romney has groomed are ones having to do with his financial position.
- AC
  
  Well dahling, it’s been said that the Lord helps them that helps themselves…
  No?
  Wait-where was that said again?

MrNutso

And what would those things be Bill McKenzie. This is no more than what he’s doing now. “I understand business and the President doesn’t.”

AC

is anyone going to mention chick-fil-a ?? or did i miss it?

Worried for the country(MA)

Hopefully they’ll play some Mumbles audio. We may not understand it but it’ll be entertaining.
- J__o__h__n
  
  He wrote a letter so it is less fun.
Hidan

Radio Boston covered it the prior day.

I think it’s a slippy slope what Boston and Chicago is doing and will allow Texas and the likes to do the same in the Opposite direction. Chick-fil-a should be allowed to open and people can then boycott if they wish.
- AC
  
  that is reasonable.
- J__o__h__n
  
  Menino clarified his position on this basically saying that and the letter didn’t say he would block them.
- TFRX
  
  Good Chrisitan chicken, or the devil’s poultry (which I’m assuming is KFC or Popeye’s). ChickFilA can go to hell as far as I care, but the gov’t shouldn’t put them there.
  
  And their half-assed signs about “We had to stop giving out Muppet toys because there’s a safety issue” is hilarious, if it weren’t the 21st century and people knew otherwise.
J__o__h__n

If they open in Boston, I plan to eat there every Sunday.
- Worried for the country(MA)
  
  Good one.
- AC
  
  i will join you. with my brother-in-law and his partner….
- Jennifer Linden
  
  Not your best effort.
Worried for the country(MA)

How about the Boston Globe editorial that trashed Menino’s position? They pointed out the irony of his comments about the Freedom Trail when Menino was the one trashing Freedom.

Good for the Globe on this one.

Worried for the country(MA)

Wow. 10 minutes leading the show with the trumped up Romney Olympics “controversy”. More media bias.

A CNN anchor asked Piers Morgan to comment on the controversy. She was in shock when Piers said Mitt spoke the truth and this was a tempest in a teapot. I guess Piers didn’t get the memo to trash Romney.

J__o__h__n

What media bias? David Cameron is a Conservative. Boris Johnson is a Conservative. I hope Romney doesn’t screw up the Middle East any more than it already is when he veers off script in Israel.
- Worried for the country(MA)
  
  Look at the press treatment of Obama’s European trip in 2008 vs. Romney in 2012 and tell me there is no media bias. Every anchor traveled with Obama in 2008.
  
  Romney’s Olympic gaffe is fairly minor and he recovered quickly but the media is giving it way too much weight.
  
  Obama’s returning of the Churchill bust is much larger slight and insult the the British people.
  - ana
    
    The Churchill bust came to the Oval office aftee 9/11 on loan to George Bush. President Obama opted to replace it with an American- Abraham Lincoln. Makes sense to me.
  - TFRX
    
    According to Pew, through the end of June, there was not a single week in which Mitt Romney had less positive coverage in the press than President Obama.
    
    The deference shown Romney is embarrassing, up until the point one remembers that the media can’t broadcast a blowout and retain their viewership through the final whistle.
  - JGC
    
    Did Obama use his European trip in 2008 as a campaign fundraiser, like Romney is doing in London? I find the $2-million offshore fundraising Romney is doing with London banking buddies more offensive than any of this business about gaffes and busts.
    - Worried for the country(MA)
      
      Yes he did.
  - John in Amherst
    
    Yes, it would be nice if Romney had a huge press entourage along with him as he wines and dines his billionaire doners at exclusive fundraisers abroad. It would be nice if Romney needed media coverage as he addressed a crowd of hundreds of thousands of inspired cheering Europeans, as did Obama.
    I imagine coverage of the olympic and MI6 gaffs are posing a conundrum for Romney’s friends at the Murdock media empire. Do they side with the British public, or try to make Rupert’s chosen one look good?
- Gregg
  
  This Boris Johnson?
  
  http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-06-11/boris-fires-back-in-war-of-words-over-bp/862688
  
  Speaking of Israel and good relations:
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGEn1TZtEmQ

DrewInGeorgia

Way to negate a week’s worth of impressive work in one hour Wade, evidently it took a Friday Free For All for the truth to surface. Don’t let the door hit you in the bottom on your way out.

Have a great weekend everybody.

JGC

There is always the similar Friday panel concept on the Diane Rehm Show…
- DrewInGeorgia
  
  I wasn’t complaining about the Panel Concept, just pointing out the diversion from Wade’s impressive performance this past week. Thanks for the suggestion.

TFRX

Please, Bill McKenzie, no more about what “American entrepreneurs need to hear from a Presidential candidate, so they can do better in this climate” (parfaphrase), giving Mitt Romney an advantage.

They. Need. More. Demand.

Demand which won’t come from more rich people getting richer by government design. Demand which can’t come from the middle class and working class which (statistically speaking) haven’t had a raise since the start of the Bush II recovery.

And can we get someone on this panel to question the mediawide fetish of CEOs as politicians?

For example, Verizon has stopped selling standalone DSL, requiring people who were perfectly happy with it to have to buy a landline phone hookup.

CEOs are bosses of their workers and get the hell out of markets all the time. Presidents are presidents of everyone, even the poor people who they can’t fire.

MrNutso

“For example, Verizon has stopped selling standalone DSL, requiring people who were perfectly happy with it to have to buy a landline phone hookup.”
But you get a puppy with the bundle.
- TFRX
  
  My jealous, possessive, dog in residence will be thrilled!

Worried for the country(MA)

Molly Ball is repeating Democrat talking points that Romney doesn’t have a plan to balance the budget. He does. It takes 5 years and is a responsible plan.

Robert

his plan makes no sense. it is the exact same plan as GW Bush’s economic platform and look where that got us.
- Worried for the country(MA)
  
  How it the same as Bush? That is a talking point that isn’t based in fact.
  
  It has much more in common with Simpson-Bowles. He also adopts the cut, cap and balance principle to limit federal spending to 20% of GDP — the post WWII historic cap.
  - Robert
    
    your repeated use of the term “talking point” is in and of itself a dead giveaway that you are simply spewing more Rush Oxycontin Limbaugh nonsense. Romney’s economic plan lacks one major component. No mention of how to pay for it other than taking away Granny’s healthcare, deregulating like crazy and giving more relief to the likes of Goldman Sachs and ExxonM. It is the exact same plan that got us into this mess in the first place.
  - Hidan
    
    Prove them wrong provide a link to his plan.
    - Robert
      
      he can’t. there isn’t one. It’s a “secret plan” like McCain’s 08 economic plan.
    - Worried for the country(MA)
      
      It is on his web site.
nj_v2

What’s the plan, there Worried One? Tax cuts, trickle down, deregulation…

Yeah, that’s worked out real well before.
- Robert
  
  exactly my point.
Kathy

It’s “responsible” only if you believe cutting off medical care for the elderly and forcing them out into the private market, which he would further deregulate, is “responsible.”
- Mike Card
  
  And buy into the notion that the Paul Ryan budget isn’t every bit as crazy as Batshit Bachman’s lunacy. Those two crazy-eyed goofballs are the Romney plan for the economy and diplomacy.
  - TFRX
    
    Waitaminit, Bachman has a budget?
    
    I mean, Ryan actually has a piece of paper with unworkable fantasy numbers on it, but I didn’t know Minnesota’s Best did too.

Robert

Offshore bank accounts and tax havens account for 21 TRILLION DOLLARS that isn’t invested in the world economy. There is a lot more to Mittens’ refusal to release his tax returns than meets the eye. I simply don’t trust the man.

JGC

Romney is also able to off-shore his fund-raising. His trip to London was not a complete debacle since he got to raise $2-million for his campaign at a fish and chips supper with his London bankster pals.

Or was that a London whale and chips supper…

Worried for the country(MA)

They are still bringing up the tax return issue? Yup, I’m up late at night worrying about that. All my friends looking for work tell me they are worried about Romney’s taxes in 2000 too.

Will there be any discussion of Diane Fienstein and the White House leaks of classified information for political gain? Will that hurt Obama?

How about Obama hiding the Fast and Furious documents and using executive privilege?

It seems there are only questions about Romney on this show. There are never questions about Obama.

Robert

keep regurgitating that Limbaugh nonsense enough times and people will just tune your party out. Fast and Furious was started by Bush. See? More of your um.. “talking points”.
- Worried for the country(MA)
  
  Making stuff up isn’t a good rebuttal for your case.
  
  btw – Does Limbaugh talk about this stuff? I wouldn’t know. I listen to NPR. However, if he does talk about this — good for him. We need transparency in our government. We should all be calling for transparency no matter our political ideology.
  - John in Amherst
    
    Limbaugh contributing to transparency? Doubt it…
  - ana
    
    Looking for transparency. Limbaugh is the last one to reference. He is patheticaly cheap, dishonest and probably has mental health issues.
    - Mike Card
      
      Not to mention illicit drug dependency issues.
John in Amherst

Romney is not yet in office and is revealing his “secret meeting” with MI6, later the subject of “no comment” by both the Romney camp and the British government. ooops.�
Fast and Furious is the subject of ongoing investigation and most likely involves covert agents from the CIA, DEA, and/or ATF. How much do want to release about it?�
And while we’re talking about leaking classified info to the detriment of national security and the personal safety of people an administration has a political grudge against, do you care to comment about Cheney and his role in the Valerie Plame affair?

TFRX

Wade, did you know Sally Ride was a lesbian? She left behind a partner of 27 years, who will now be in probate court because she’s not recognized as a spouse.

Yep. Way to treat someone we call a “hero”.

I’m wondering how soon the Daddies for a Decent America will campaign to have her name ripped off that school.

J__o__h__n

She could have come out during her lifetime and used some of her fame to help advocate for equal marriage rights.
- TFRX
  
  But to what personal risk? is the study question. How can we guarantee she wouldn’t even lose her job teaching?
  
  This resembles the periodically held debate over athletes in bigtime American team sports, coming out. A very few do so after retiring, and none have while playing.
  - J__o__h__n
    
    She lived in CA which has employment protection rights.
    - TFRX
      
      I thought she was in northern New England or such–maybe I’m confusing her with someone else.
      
      My question about the school stands.
    - J__o__h__n
      
      I don’t understand the question about the school. She had employment protection.
    - TFRX
      
      Did McAuliffe have a school renamed for her? Given that case, I may have gotten the two confused.
    - kelty
      
      It is a space museum, not a school. She was a teacher though.
    - TFRX
      
      Yeah, sorry about the whole kerfluffle. I’d erase this thread if I could.
      
      In my defense, I’ve never confused John Glenn and Buzz Aldrin, I swear!
    - kelty
      
      You are thinking about Christa McAuliffe who was from NH. Ride grew up in CA.

MrNutso

You won’t hear anything about gun control, because neither one of the candidates want to lose.

TFRX

Why is the mainstream media more afraid of (even merely talking about) gun control than voters are?

Hidan

The CO. Shooter did everything legally so enhanced background checks wouldn’t have stopped this.

mtwms

Calling sanctions against a football program a “death penalty” perpetuates the problem that needs to be solved. Football is a game, not a matter of life and death. Putting the game ahead of the safety of young boys created this entire issue.

John in Amherst

Bravo. The NCAA weighing in on what is a criminal case indicates how screwy this whole situation is. The central figures in this case (including senior PSU officials) are quite possibly perpetrators of criminal acts – sexual abuse or aiding and abetting the same – and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law to determine innocence or guilt. Punishment should be exacted by the criminal justice system, not sanctioned by an organization that oversees collegiate sports.

Hidan

Also amazing how when acts of terrorism are performed by whites and not muslims it’s a Mental Health issue instead of an terrorism one. Same goes for the U.S. support of a sucide bomber in syria.

Hench the meanless label of Terrorism as Greenwald has explained mutiple times.

Jennifer Linden

I think the hair is a dead giveaway.
- Kairos
  
  There is more fundamental Christian terrorism in the U.S. than Islamic terrorism. Obviously, that guy in Colorado doesn’t have political motivations.
  
  But, that guy who shot Giffords….

nj_v2

Meanwhile, in the Stuff-That-Really-Matters Dept.…

Greenland ice sheet disappears:

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2012-217

Satellites see Unprecedented Greenland Ice Sheet Melt

[[ "This was so extraordinary that at first I questioned the result: was this real or was it due to a data error?" Son Nghiem of NASA's jet propulsion laboratory in Pasadena said in the release. ]]

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/07/26-6http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/

[[ Dr. Jeff Masters writes on WunderBlog: "These are truly historic levels of drought, exceeded only during the great Dust Bowl drought of the 1930s and a severe drought in the mid-1950s."

According to Masters, July 2012 now ranks second on a list of months with the greatest percent area in moderate or greater drought since 1895. ]]

AC

the USGS has been tracking this for awhile…
Worried for the country(MA)

You do understand that this happens every 150 years or so. The last time was 1889 so we are right on time.
- John in Amherst
  
  And you DO understand that many other observations related to the Greenland ice sheet, its rapid melting and the warming of the arctic generally (e.g.: the extent of glacial recession and thinning, the advance of plant life inland, the shrinkage and thinning of arctic sea ice, drastic rising of ambient air and water temperatures, etc.) are totally unprecedented? If you and your fellow GOP climate change deniers won’t believe anyone else, check how various corporations are preparing to alter their shipping and prospecting plans for the arctic area, and how the various countries with a direct interest in the resources and strategic importance of the area are adjusting their claims and plans…
  - Worried for the country(MA)
    
    I have nothing to do with the GOP other than support for their current candidate because I believe his policies are better for the country over the long term.
    
    I also believe in true science. When ‘science’ is turned into a cult following I become very skeptical.
    - John in Amherst
      
      So, do you mean to imply that climatology is a cult?
      
      The “policy” (what there is of it) that Romney and the GOP – especially the “young guns” who rode the teabag express into congress, espouse in regards to the climate relates primarily to “unfettering” businesses from pesky regulations so they can increase profits and jobs. Right. Industry will be conscientious stewards of the environment. They are essentially looking for a subsidy from future generations in the form of bequeathing them a degraded environment instead of protecting it as we know we can.
- nj_v2
  
  Why of course, polar ice disappears and sea levels go up and downevery 90,000 years or so. The planet used to be really warm when the dinosaurs lived here.
  
  All this fuss about humans pouring billions of tons of carbon into the air for over a hundred years has nothing to do with anything.
- Mike Card
  
  And your point is…?
  
  What possible harm could be done if we were to slow down on trashing the atmosphere, as well as making the earth one big scab of a planet? While using the inhabitants’ own money to encourage this destruction?
  
  Why are you worried for the country, but not the people who live in the country?
Worried for the country(MA)

“Ice cores from Summit show that melting events of this type
occur about once every 150 years on average. With the last one
happening in 1889, this event is right on time,” says Lora Koenig, a Goddard glaciologist and a member of the research team analyzing the satellite data.

Anne

I find it very hypocritical that the Republicans are blaming President Obama for the state of the economy that their policies have been trying to bring about since the days of Ronald Reagan. It took approximately 3 decades to get us into this mess created by their “trickle down” economic philosopy and now that we’re in the ditch, they blame Obama for not being able to miraculously cure the problems in 3 years. I hope that the American people are smart enough to recognize that hiring a creature of Wall Street will NOT fix these problems but merely perpetuate them.

Jennifer Linden

That is a bunch of hooey. Obama has made this country much worse off.
- John in Amherst
  
  How, exactly, are we much worse off now? As with plummeting from a high place, it’s not the fall that kills some one, its the sudden stop at the end. Bush II and his neocon buddies drove us off the cliff, then bailed out and handed the wheel to Obama, and then the GOP congress hand-cuffed him with the requirement that all appointments and laws needed a super majority to pass, expressly so that Obama would be a one term president. And you blame him?
- Kairos
  
  You know, the next bubble to burst will be student loans, and this will be exclusively an American problem. Because most industrialized nations tax the top a little more to lower tuition or have zero tuition. One of the first things Obama did was eliminate banks from being middlemen between students and government loans, saving graduates thousands of dollars. Obviously, the banks and their CEOs are doing just fine without being the middlemen, but Romney recently said that he would replace the banks as the middlemen, costing millions of people thousands of dollars, while a millionaire CEO takes home an extra million or two. And Romney will exacerbate the student loan bubble. That’s just one example why republicans are malignant. (But I bet you want to think that in some backwards way taking money directly out of the middle class and into the pockets of bankers will somehow be best for the middle class in the end.)
  
  But one of the most refreshing thing Obama did was lift the ban on stem cell research, and scientists have already made breakthroughs on heart disease, and they expect heart disease to no longer be America’s top killer in 10 or so years. That is literally our lives Bush was playing with, and Obama has increased.

Robert

Tom. Please come back. We miss you. This guy isn’t very good.

Greg

Robert, you’re not very nice.
J__o__h__n

He wasn’t bad. Don’t bring Jane back!
nj_v2

Everyone has strengths and weaknesses. On the whole, i thought Mr. Goodwyn did a fine job.

Gerrych

None of your “talking heads” had the courage to mention (or are they unaware?) that that Mrs. Romney’s dressage horse is used for Multiple Sclerosis therapy. So easy to be nasty!

JGC

The Romneys also get to claim a $70,000 tax credit on their horse investment. That makes for some very nice wallet therapy as well.

A person can ride a horse and get all the health benefits therein without making it into just another vehicle for an uber-taxdeduction. (BTW, I have a family member with MS.)

Gregg, what is your perspective on horse therapy for illness and 5-figure tax deductions? I would appreciate your uniquely informed perspective. (Serious)

Davesix6

�
Just a few of many past observations from both sides of the isle in Romney’s favor;
“Let us not seek the Republican answer or the Democratic answer, but the right answer. Let us not seek to fix the blame for the past. Let us accept our own responsibility for the future”. John F Kennedy
“are you better off than you were four years ago” Ronald Reagan
“How’s that hopey-changey stuff working out for you?”! Sarah Palin
“It’s the economy, stupid”! James Carville

J__o__h__n

How are Romney’s economic proposals the right answer? It is the same Republican answer we’ve heard for years.
- jimmy
  
  Yep. Boy Reagan was not afraid of “American Power” at all huh? What exactly was his response to the Beirut bombings in 1983 that killed 241 people? **crickets**
  - Davesix6
    
    Is that all you’ve got Jimmy?
    Ronald Reagan brought down the Iron Curtain of Soviet Rule in Eastern Europe.
    Want to compare Reagan to Clinton?
    - jefe68
      
      No, wrong Reagan had nothing to do with bringing down the Iron Curtain.�
      The USSR was broke, the US did help in this endeavor by outspending them. But that’s more of a cumulative effort.
      
      By the way Reagan also raised the deficit a lot, he also raised taxes and during his time in office the debt ceiling was raised 18 times.
- Davesix6
  
  That’s a good question.
  I am voting for Romney in hope that he will return to the proven, successful policies of the past.
  Ronald Reagan took office under much worse conditions than Barrack Obama, and Reagan turned things around.
  During the first two years of Reagan’s Presidency unemployment rose from 7.5 % at the start of 1981 to 11% by the end of 1982. But that was just one of many “crisis” he faced and dealt with.
  1982 Unemployment Rate 11% – 1988 Unemployment Rate 4.08%
  To seek to blame “the failed policies of the past” is to attempt to totally ignore over thirty years of incredible growth and prosperity in this country, all of which can be directly traced back to Ronald Reagan.
  President Obama’s economic policies on the other hand have not worked.
  Obama had two years of Democrat control of the Presidency, the House, and the Senate, remember that when you attempt to once again blame Republicans.
  We’ve not had true Reaganomics since Ronald Reagan, and yet his policies arguably set in motion a period of economic growth and expansion that continued through the Bush H.W, Clinton, and even the Bush H eras.
  No more excuses, it’s time to correct the economic mishandling and failed policies of this administration.
  - J__o__h__n
    
    It takes more than two years to clean up a mess. How were Bush’s tax cuts not pure Reaganomics? Other than the prescription drugs bill, sort of funding no child left behind, and attempting immigration reform, Bush out-Reaganed Reagan. That RINO Reagan even raised taxes and compromised with the Democrats.
  - TFRX
    
    The fingernail marks on the Senate desk belonging to LoserNormColeman expose your lie about “control of the Senate for two years”.
    
    The GOP have put their mind to gobstopping the liviing shit out of the government since before President Obama’s inauguration day. “60 is the new 51.” Mission accomplished.
  - Kairos
    
    Holly cow, you have no idea about economics. First off, the recession of the 1970s was mostly due to an energy crisis. This country would be a lot better off today if we had reelected Carter and continued his energy plan, which was the similar to Germany’s plan at the time, and now Germany’s energy plan is paying off big time right now. Second, in 1980, taxes on the top were 70%, which is above the maximum revenue mark on the Laffer Curve. There would be no reason to raise taxes when taxes are already that high. What worked then would not work now. Mainly, because the problems of the 1970s were on the supply and capital side. Today, it is the opposite. Capital is high, supply is high, but demand in the toilet. Mostly because the top 1% own a much larger percentage of national wealth now then the 1% did in the 70s.�
    �
    This country has moved too far to the right since 1980. And the fact that you think one economic policy works in any economic conditions shows your stupidity. If helping the top, deregulating banks, and starting wars with Muslim countries worked in all economic conditions, we would have high paying jobs with excellent benefits, our public institutions wouldn’t be falling apart, and we would have world peace by now.
    �
    Not to mention, Reagan’s foreign policy caused genocide in Central America, which history wants to forget for some reason. But at least Reagan raised taxes on the top every now and then, showing some pragmatism. P.S., go look at what happened to middle income and top income after the Bush Tax Cuts–I’ll give you a hint: a small amount of people made a lot of money while the majority of the country lost money.
  - HiN Lois
    
    Yes if only we had Reagan back to “set the markets free” so that the really bright criminals at Goldman Sachs and friends could now own everything, and have us in their debt for every.
    
    Oh wait a minute — he did do that.
    Maybe you missed what Regan and Reagan pulled?
    
    How can anyone still be so ignorant about what happened after all the great documentaries that explained it on an idiots level?
    
    Go watch Inside Job and hang you deluded head in shame.

at

The only show better than Breaking Bad is Louie. This includes all the HBO and Showtime generally great if “tryin-too-hard” original programming. Last year that wasn’t true, it was close, but BrB was more interesting, from a multidimensional parrallax.This
year BrB is just as good, maybe better than last year, but Louie has
gotten so much better than the first years that it is like a quantum
event. Last nighty Possey Parker played this bipolar woman that Louie is
out with.You will swear that you were out with this chick (possibly
in the form of a guy) yourself in the past, I know I was — at least a
dozen times.It may be the best half hour show I ever saw.It was socially significant. Louie CK is A Fuke-n’ G-nyess.Only a psychopath could have not been moved by this show, or a member of the uber-class. Not that the two are necessarily exclusive. Much the contrary. One of the major awakenings of human culture will be when the common man in the streets begins to become aware of the influence of psychopaths on our society, and the extent to which, due to a few glitches in the cultural software and genetic hardware of humans, these predatory non-humans in human form, become more concentrated at the top of our institutions that deal in power and wealth. When the average man becomes aware of this and society begins to take prescriptive measure to protect it’s naive and wholesome segments from manipulation and exploitation by these predators of man, despite their charm, amorality, and ruthlessness it will be an evolutionary event for man.IMNSHO

Dee

Romney abroad “NO MAN’S LAND” on The Salt Lake City�
Olympics and visiting “the dirty liars” and “war mongers” �
in Israel …..David Cameron was right to criticize Romney’s record on leading The Salt Lake City Olympic Games and comparing his leadership there as conducting the Olympics Games in “No MAN’S LAND “ In contrast, the 2012 Olympics has been such an imposition for average Londoners turning their city into “a police state” with street after street blocked off to ordinary people and their work and places of business (little wonder cabbies went on strikes); missile capability from roof tops scaring local residents, and foreign soldiers manning many routes–instead of the local London Police and the British Army….Not to mention how the Olympic Games are off limits to most Londoners with the cost of admission (the cheapest tickets ) on sale for 65 English pounds….Shame , Shame!And lastly, I heard through the grapevine many Londoners are wondering “Why is Romney visiting ” the dirty liars “ and “war mongers in Israel–when all they want is war…” DeeP.S They have a point, imagine, the Zionist apologists atthe WSJ calling the NIE Report in 2007 on Iran not having Nuclear capability to build a bomb “a fiasco” How Insane!Intelligence Fiasco Footnote…..The Wall Street Journal http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704471504574447412969599476.htmlAnd Israel’s ongoing efforts (lies) to “change the Facts on the ground” in the Palestinian territories to benefit illegal settlers The Great Middle East Peace Process Sham, Henry Siegman http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n16/henry-siegman/the-great-middle-east-peace-process-scam

Worried for the country(MA)

Dee, you forgot to trash the Poles.
- Greyman
  
  No need to: Obama handled that magisterially a few months ago with his “Polish death camps” slur, a significant diplomatic lapse for a sitting President (N. B., Molly Ball).
  - ana
    
    President Obama did not stroll onto a foreign soil and presume to rewrite their history. He made a serious gaffe unlike Mr. Romney who gave unsolicited major criticism of the city’s readiness
    - Davesix6
      
      Everything Romney “eluded” to had been reported by Brian Williams on the NBC Nightly News
    - Kairos
      
      Nobody is saying Romney was wrong about the English; they are saying that he is not a diplomat. He’s just a joke.
  - TFRX
    
    Keep flogging those Foxpoints.
    
    Your side has given up on pretending to take anything as written for months now.
- JGC
  
  Romney will inadvertently trash the Polish people in his earnest, superpatriotic way; it is just a matter of time…
  - TomK in Boston
    
    But he’ll find some Polish oligarchs to hang out with and have some laughs about the “little people”, maybe raise some funds from his internationalist brotherhood…
Plushkin

weekly love fest between resident jew haters Mikie (Hidan)
http://www.npr.org/templates/community/persona.php?uid=5247058
and notorious Doris Cadigan (Dee)
http://www.npr.org/templates/community/persona.php?uid=8122750

Oy, Vey!

I wonder how obvious Zionist involvement in Colorado shooting managed to escape their ever watchful eyes.
Hidan

More,

- she’s building a Museum of Tolerance over an Indian burial ground.

-she calls all Nazi comparisons anti-Semitic (unless they’re made by a settler)

-she got knocked up by a random IDF soldier during Birthright, just to combat the Demographic Threat
JonS

You’re anti-israel garbage spewed venom sets a new low for the left wing kooks that frequent this site..Congrats on your “achievement”.

Nan

Where was the story about the LA police shooting a young man? The anguish, anger and grief of the mother in the short clip before the moving on to the Olympics et. al. seemed inhuman especially as there was not even a news story. This treatment of one woman’s soul deep pain makes the producer and the show seem callous and indifferent.

Dee

Addendum

Intelligence Fiasco Footnote , WSJ http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704471504574447412969599476.html

The Great Middle East Peace process Sham, Henry Siegman�
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n16/henry-siegman/the-great-middle-east-peace-process-scam

Plushkin

And compulsory Oy-Vey-dum of cause!
Hilarious!
Hidan

Don’t worry about the comment below looks like your getting stalked as well Onpoint take notice.

she’s so zionist so ,

-she thinks giving a neighbor a ride means dropping you off east of the Jordan River

-she thinks giving you water means returning the ‘missing’ parts to the desalination plant

-she thinks ‘youth activities’ means breaking the arms of Palestinians

-she thinks ‘home shopping’ is picking which house you want to force Palestinians from

JGC

The U.S. drought is increasing in its scope and depth of misery. Food prices are projected to increase by 3% to 4% next year as a result. Americans would be prudent to start stockpiling food in their pantries for the hard times ahead.

The Romneys are already stocking up on shares of Kraft, Campbell and Hormel and stashing it in their Cayman Islands pantry.

John in Amherst

It is interesting to hear several GOP sunbelt pols now talking about government relief for drought-stricken farmers, giving aid to dig deeper wells, covering crop & livestock losses, etc. And yet I am sure they will continue harping about shrinking the government and how the recession is all Obama’s fault. (Like this is one more crisis, along with the eurozone melt-down, the slowing of China’s and Japan’s economies, the backlog of housing inventory, etc. that Obama should have fixed already).

BTW, Mormon doctrine advises church members to maintain a one year’s stores of various food stuffs, just in case. So I’m guessing the Romneys are all set.
- Hidan
  
  The Church of Latter Day Saints does to it’s credit help any memeber with food pantry’s.
  - John in Amherst
    
    Forgive my cheap shot at the LDS. If only conservative Christians followed Christ’s admonitions to feed the hungry, welcome the stranger, visit the imprisoned…
    - Hidan
      
      No worries, The LDS is quite nasty if you get involved in any type of leadership but I give them create for helping the poor members.
    - Hidan
      
      “credit”
    - Ron Shirtz
      
      Not only poor LDS members benefit. The LDS church heavily participates in disaster relief efforts at home and abroad—regardless of race, creed, color, or faith or the lack of. It has a very close working relationship with the Red Cross. It also sends health missionaries through-out the world
- TomK in Boston
  
  And don’t forget that all the GOP sunbelt pols say that we can pump all the CO2 we want into the atmosphere with no bad effects. Unfortunately they’re not fans of adjusting their ideology based on facts or science.
Zing

Nonsense…the current crops show just as much promise as past years…you’ve bought into the hysteria.

JKSB

If the Penn State scandal had happened in any other program, swimming and diving, track and field, tennis, volleyball, etc., other than basketball, the NCAA, university president, and athletic director would have cut the program without a second thought. The only reason Penn State was not given the death penalty is because of the all powerful dollar, they should have had their program cut, the administration tried to hide a monster. And if you argue that that would have punished the current players there are plenty of other NCAA athletes who are punished by having the programs they love cut for infinitly less serious reasons.

jimmy

Maybe Bill could run as the VP for Romney, since he sounds like he is on the campaign trail for him while on this show. C’mon, Jack B. how bout some pushback??? Also, I hardly see how Romney’s fortunes relate to how entrepreneurs in this country see the marketplace. “Looking through the lenses” as Bill put it is not not going to help the 99% of us that have no money, Romney will JUST MAKE THE RICH RICHER>

TomK in Boston

Why does the corporate media give Etchasketch a pass on his lies?

First they showed Obama saying “If I talk about the economy I’ll lose” without the part that he was quoting McCain. Now Obama says, correctly, that anyone who built a business did not build the infrastructure upon which it depends, and they have him saying the owner didn’t build the business itself.

Let’s call a spade a spade, this is LYING!!! Where’s the outrage? Why aren’t the media all over these lying ads? This is over the line even for hardball politics. The media have decided there is no such thing as truth so, whatever. They have abdicated their responsibility as a key element of the democracy we once had.

Greyman

Why did no enterprising journalist (prior to David Maraniss) examine Obama’s partly-fictional “autobiography” prior to the 2008 election? The inaccuracies and misrepresentations in Obama’s account that Maraniss has uncovered have hardly gained widespread attention.
- John in Amherst
  
  Suggest you check this op ed by Maraniss. He is deploring the way his biography is being twisted by those who hate Obama. He makes it clear that, although some of Obama’s autobiographical writings straddle fact and fiction, he is the victim of right wing character assasination.
  http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/what-drives-the-obama-doubters-and-haters/2012/07/27/gJQAIbImDX_story.html?hpid=z3&socialreader_check=0&denied=1
  - TFRX
    
    B-b-b-but I was watching Fox News all that day and I didn’t hear a thing about Maraniss’ column, or Obama saying in his autobio that there were any composite characters!
    
    Low-information voters are often so by choice nowadays.
    - Gregg
      
      Maraniss’ criticism has been all over Fox. You’re lying.
    - TFRX
      
      My slight joke escaped you. Again. (Seriously, what sane person says, “I watched Fox News all day”?)
      
      The pukefunnel narrative has been set, in the perfected Fox manner, and their bobbleheads all line up.
      
      They prodded, pulled, and distorted the shit out of Maraniss’ work, and are using it to their own ends, no matter how slipshod their act is, to the point that the author said “WTF, you idiots?”
      
      It’s their M.O. And it plays well to people who want to think they’re being informed with something that has all the trappings of journalism. Look! Chyrons! Desks and monitors behind them! Graphics! It looks just like news!
Guest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=llQUrko0Gqw
- TomK in Boston
  
  Sorry, I heard the original and it’s obvious to any non-brainwashed native English speaker that our President was referring to the infrastructure.
  
  Habla Ingles?
Bigleyjoshua

because the media is part of the fascist machine masquerading as a democracy–and we are the enemy.

Dee

Re: Hidan

I am very familiar with the Zionist fear mongers and how�
they twist truth to the absurdity to preserve the evil state�
of Israel in Palestine today.

( i use the word evil here in Saint Augustine “s sense–in�
the sense all human wrongs are evil but what places into�
the evil category is the magnitude & the scope of their reach. As you know 7 million Palestinian have been displaced from�
their historic homeland in Palestine and millions more are denied their sovereign and human rights in the Palestinian territories daily and across the greater Middle East all be-
cause of this Jewish theocracy in Palestine…)

I find this totally immoral and unacceptable today and as Bernie Sanders advises in the video below people have�
to challenge GOP hypocrisy on tax cuts that cut social pro-
grams and safety nets to the poor while the robber barrons
on Wall street make off with the hundreds and thousands
of dollars and even billions in profits and no one calls their�
coming back to the US Treasury for more into account.

I feel the Israeli settlers do the same everyday in Palestine�
and they must go..(The people who came before 1967 can�
apply for a Palestinian citizenship ( can accept this) but not�
the carpet baggers who came after 1967 have to go…) Dee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0aV_NSCUi4

P. S. Yesterday, I was listening to the Diane Rehm Show and�
her guests on The House’s proposed cuts to the Food Stamp program that required people who are living on the edge to document their situation…How callous and insulting can peo-
ple get? . All the while giving the green light to the robber barrons on Wall Street to come back and take more US tax monies from the US Tresury with no restrictions. It’s criminal�
and so is what Israeli officials are doing to the Palestinians�
and US tax payers today…(Obama signed another arms deal�
to the Zionist Land thieves and War Mongers instead of calling�
to disarm them today.) Thus it is up to Americans to take on�
their politicians &Zionist organization in the US and stop this)

Kairos

Don’t you remember Jesus saying, “Help the rich, cut healthcare away from the poor, and let the moneychangers do whatever they want.”

I certainly do!

I just don’t understand why the liberals can’t see that the rich are really poor and the poor are actually rich, that tax cuts actually raise revenue while tax hikes actually decrease revenue, white people are the real victims of racism, corporations police themselves better than government can, every body is greedy but the rich, entities and cells have more personhood than breathing human beings, real patriotism is waving the flag with a cross, and everybody is greedy except the top 1%.
- Zing
  
  I remember Jesus saying, “I did not come to bring peace to this world.”
  - Kairos
    
    My favorite is when he suggests that divorced men should cut their nads off.
- Bigleyjoshua
  
  Well said.

Alloren

I’m intrigued by the fact that Romney is not a draft dodger(according to Bill)since he copped a religious deferment and got married young. That is dodging or was dodging it became the motif of a generation and the rich and powerful were the best at it.

Jennifer Linden

Yawn, tiresome whining.
- J__o__h__n
  
  I thought you were backing Jill Stein or was that just a ruse to help her Naderize the election.
- ClemTone
  
  Yawn, inane whining.
  - Bigleyjoshua
    
    yur comments astound us. So much thought. Did you yawn and sleep a lot in class too? Im sorry but if you dont understand big people talk, run along and play with your toy guns in the shed–your annie will be along later to milk you and stroke you–now doesnt that sound nice. Now scoot!
- Mike Card
  
  You really think Romney is a serious presidential candidate, don’t you? Wow! The only one who can actually log onto the internet and type on a keyboard. Your parents must be SO proud!
- Bigleyjoshua
  
  what is your IQ–70, 69…
TomK in Boston

It’s important to be clear that Etchasketch is not a normal loyal American. He’s an international oligarch who has more in common with Carlos Slim or Vladimir Putin, or any financial con artist, than with ordinary Americans. When the Birchers were hunting communists like the right is hunting muslims now, “Internationalist” was a dirty word, but now it seems fine on the righty fringe. Oligarchs don’t serve, or even buy groceries for that matter. None of that enters their bubble.
- Bigleyjoshua
  
  well said. tards like jennifer linden below are probably one of these daughters of pycho fascists–thats why it bores her to think about it–massacre is part of her life.
  
  However, if she is not of the killer rich class she is simply tarded.
Kairos

Yeah, and Romney, while at Stanford held a counterprotest against students holding a protest against the draft.
- Bigleyjoshua
  
  it in the nature of the rich
  - Bigleyjoshua
    
    you dont get that rich without being evil–fact.
harverd phd

Dunno fer shure…ask Bill Clinton…
- Alloren
  
  same generation. slick and cunning trumps responsiblity.
  - Bigleyjoshua
    
    fighting an illegal war to murder people is not your responsibility. thats crazy. BUt–it was and is the war of the rich so if they want to kill people why do we do it for them and let them dodge–they are bloody cowards and pycho killers.
  - TFRX
    
    Let me introduce you to the concept of supporting a war one avoids serving in while of draft age. Such a person is called a chickenhawk.

Dcadigan01

Here’s an eye witness account of Zionist terrorism in Pale-
stine in 1948 with the author redrawing the events of the�
1967 occupation of the Palestinian territories…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJrW-BhgMx0

(Note the author says “They destroyed my life…” )

George The 15467th

Hey, lets all pretend like we have a choice and Goldman Sacks and friends don’t own the entire sham.�
Then we can have all the inane fun of thinking we are biting our adversary in the butt while in fact it is our own tails we are chasing in our compulsive foaming-at-the-mouth frenzy to teach sense to the other side.
Here’s a clue for you brilliant deluded dupes of the nervous systems inherent dualism.
You don’t have a choice.
Unless you consider the distinction between urine and feces a meaningful pursuit.

ClemTone

It can be a meaningful pursuit. Unfortunately it is a necessary pursuit, in the absence of a stand-up candidate who is a real person and not some false image produced by the professional political industry.
- Bigleyjoshua
  
  why is playing their stupid game necessary. Dont give them power. Take it away.
Bigleyjoshua

well said. Shouldn’t we do something about it?

Guest

Did anyone notice Wade’s slip-up (10:00)? “he (the president) sent Navy Seals into Pakistan to kill Obama…”

Bigleyjoshua

um no sorry. did you ever notice well, you are little off…what would you do i the theater, i wonder?
- Ronald Johnson
  
  Yes, he did say that and nobody corrected him, or he himself. What a moron.
  - Ronald Johnson
    
    …and so’s Bigleyjoshua

Hugh

Can we bring the Green party candidate into the Friday conversation? What are the chances for this seemingly promising candidate? Does she have a chance?

Zing

A chance for what?

HiramDubec

Simple truth: every time the antigun people raise this issue they make the gun dealers rich as profits soar. I can only wonder how many antigun people actually profit form these scares.
Every time you raise the fear of depriving people of their ability to protect themselves, you cause a windfall for the arms dealers.

The fact that it is better to have a gun and not need one than to need one and not have one could not have been better illustrated than it was by the tragedy in CO.

Another blinding flash of the obvious.

F Shure Delmont

Quite so. It would only take one such incident were some nut started shooting innocents and some person carrying a concealed weapon blows his brains out to change the whole issue in the minds of the muddle class.
- TomK in Boston
  
  Excellent adolescent fantasy. It’s never happened, while the number of spouses, family members and other innocents killed by the flood of guns continues to skyrocket, but I know that only matters in the real world.
  - harverd phd
    
    But it doesn’t matter to Democrats in an election year.
    - HiramDubec
      
      Perhaps you hadn’t noticed that it has been Republicans that passed the previous bans.
  - MagicPencil
    
    You prove his point. It didn’t happen because not enough responsible citizens go about armed, however there are many incidents that were stopped cold because of an armed individual on the spot. In his study Gary Glick found that for every crime committed with a firearm, three crimes were prevented by firearms, and as a participant in an unreported event were a firearm saved my life I believe my experience is worth more than your fantasy.
    Now try using your imagination for something more realistic and imagine yourself cowering behind a theater seat unarmed waiting to be murdered with not a thing you can do about it. Now try imagining yourself hiding with a Glock in you fist and about to put an end to the insanity.
    If you can’t understand this you have lead a very sheltered and lucky life.
    - TomK in Boston
      
      Hey, I used my imagination like that all the time, when I was 12 years old.
    - HiramDubec
      
      In that theater you would be alive only by luck. I would be alive and so would the others because I would slay the fool.
    - Bigleyjoshua
      
      hahahahahahah! ok now here’s some bubble gum, go play in the street little boy
    - TFRX
      
      Life ain’t World of Warcraft.
    - Bigleyjoshua
      
      you really live in a delusional world–you are not a hero starring in your own shoot-em up guun flick–you are not batman.
      
      aimagine you get cocky and rise to shoot and the pych oputs a bullet in your head or you miss and he deosnt.
      
      Imagine you rise to shooot and he takes a hostage and blows some little fgirl away because you got cocky and then he shoots you too and a few more children for good measure.
      
      Imagine, you think your clever and angle under the seat or take cover behind my girlfriend and she gets shot or you miss or one of a thousand events occur and you ange rthe pyscho and he kills a few more people, possibly a dozen indiscrimintely because you got cocky hero–
      
      vigilantes are criminals and fools–we do not live in a vigilante society. batman is a vigilante. law and order eventually came to teh wild west with good reson–it was full of vigilant jackasses that killed people. You are not wild bill hickock or billy the kid–pychos by the way–worshiped by amricans.
- Bigleyjoshua
  
  nah, nothing wilol change in the mind of the muddled gun nuts
  - Bigleyjoshua
    
    I wonder if you gun nuts even care about the victims–you dont seem to show any sympathy whastoever-why do you politicize massacre? It reflects very poorly on you. It just proves how nutty you really are–and dangerous!
Kairos

Are you saying that if everybody in the movie theater had a gun, things would have turned out better?
- HiramDubec
  
  It would only take one, responsible, armed individual, who was willing to tote several pounds around all day, out of his love for his fellow man, to insure at least the safety of those around him.
  - Kairos
    
    Yep. They’re called police officers. Support the police by making guns harder to own.
    - HiramDubec
      
      The police cannot protect you, and they do not have the resources to do so. If I had to rely on the police and your inane theories I would be dead now.
    - Bigleyjoshua
      
      they don’t have the resources-!!? Are your really that smart?
      
      You know nothing about the police. Police are encouraged–ordered–to protect rich neighborhoods and while patrolling rich neighborhoods–never to harass them or monitor them–but in fact are encouraged to patrol poor neighborhoods and harass them incessantly with strike forces and racial profiling.
      
      Moreover, the police are stockpiling weapons of mass destruction–pain rays, sonic blasters, riot control gear, tanks–tanks–sold to them by military contractors and weapons manufacturers–the same ones selling guns to crazies–and the war machine
      
      also, many police officers do moonlighting work for many rich people and businesses–making pretty good money–they would be happy to stand guard in public places and do often–especially community events, fairs, concerts, etc…
      
      if they the police were less racist and less the puppets of the rich employed to harass the poor–they could easily be re-organized to patrol the community in ways that assist people–more like the old days–put cops on the beat-walking among us, getting know us—as members of the community rather than soldiers pitted against us.
      
      I know from experience. You are so ignorant, your brain undernourished that you really should leave community organizing up to those of us who are qualified and just respect our superior qualifications.
    - Kairos
      
      There was a time when there were no police officers and every human being had weapons. But one day, people came out of their caves and started building universities and felt the need for policing. It’s called a society, not an inane theory.
      
      I’m not saying you can’t own a gun; I’m saying that assault weapons shouldn’t be legal. You seem to want to argue the former, however. But the real argument is the latter, which you ignore because you have no argument.
  - Bigleyjoshua
    
    yeah, im sure thats what it s–love for your fellow man.
- NativeSun
  
  You do realize that Switzerland has a real militia, and the citizens serving in it have real assault rifles (not to be confused with semi automatic rifles that look like one)
  That is to say they have machine guns in their homes, and what? No slaughter in the streets.
  
  Also in Kennesaw you must own a gun by law and have ammo in your house for it.
  Guess what: when that law was passed, crime plummeted, but don’t take my word for it, here is the NY Times article:
  
  http://www.nytimes.com/1987/04/11/us/georgia-town-to-celebrate-mandatory-firearms.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm
  - Kairos
    
    I don’t see a logical connection between crime levels dropping and automatic weapons, assault rifles becoming legal. There doesn’t seem to be enough correlation to suggest causation.
    
    But if you want to straw man it up: look at what happened to Harlem. There used to be tons of guns in Harlem, but there was also a lot of crime. Crime didn’t stop until the City of New York decided to police the streets more and do more community organizing.
    
    I’m not saying hand guns should be legal–but there is no need to have a machine gun. Every home in America resides a potential gun owner, but that doesn’t stop criminals.
    
    What you are basically arguing for is a cold war between each citizen–he has a gun, and I have a gun, so no one will shoot. I not only think that that is an ugly vision of society, I think it is potentially dangerous in high volume areas. Perhaps, we should check out guns to everyone who steps on an airplane…that way, nobody would hijack a plane knowing that he would get shot…then the passengers can check them in at the next airport….?
    
    They are called the “Police”; the actual protectors of crime and violence.
    - HiramDubec
      
      The police cannot and will not protect you. I hope you are never in such a situation but if you are perhaps you will have the same feeling as the Doctor who was powerless to stop her father from being shot to death in Texas, after deciding to leave her gun in the car.
      
      All your rhetoric tells me is that the natives of harlem are not civilized enough to be trusted with firearms but those of Kennesaw and Switzerland are. I can buy that. That’s why if I go to Harlem I will be packing. And if you go, Oh, maybe you better not.
      
      The fact remains, there is no substitute. Were were your protecting police in CO? No where that did any of the dead any good, that’s for sure.
    - Bigleyjoshua
      
      wow!–you really are a racist shit aren’t you. i would not pity your demise in harlem if sb had the correctness of mind to end your misery.
      
      Hey smart guy–we are not talking about Harlem–we are talking about red state america–and mostly white people–white people massacre. Some minorities sell drugs–but they get them from white poeople a the top–and maybe some people get shot in drug wars–but these people ar enot concerend with your butt–unless you plan on standing on one of their corners.
      
      but even drug dealers would have less guns if republicans like oliver north, cheney, bush, and romeny weren’t supplying them in illegal arms trade and legal manufacturinng
    - Kairos
      
      Dude, there is one correlation that shows causation to crime, and that is poverty. If the Swiss became impoverished, their desperation will cause them to use those guns in bad ways. This is true of all races across history (if you’ve ever read a history book or traveled at all). Poverty is the chief cause of crime.
      
      I didn’t grow up in poverty. My family and I never had to lock our doors, let alone own a gun. But perhaps you should first reconsider your racism, and then once you start to think more clearly, you can see that there is zero reason to own an assault rifle.
    - HiramDubec
      
      You would obviously rather die than allow anyone in the theater the ability to protect you. Forget the police, they will arrive too late to prevent this kind of thing every time. I would bet that you have no familiarity with firearms at all other than hollywood and crime reports.
    - Kairos
      
      No I would rather that the shooter didn’t have the ability to buy an assault rifle and extended clips to kill more people. If only hand guns with normal magazines were legal, more people would have escaped. During the Giffords shooting, the shooter was stopped by the crowd once he had to reload–more people meanlessly died because of a meaningless and tradgic right to own extended clips.
      
      You are a serious idiot. Anyone in that theater could have been carrying a gun, but it didn’t matter. What matter is that a psycho shot people and more people died because of loose gun laws.
      
      The gunman knew beforehand that anyone in that theater could have been carrying a weapon, but that did not curb him. Where’s your logic? Then you say that people should have been carrying guns in the theater as if untrained civilians are going to shoot in a dark theater without any mishaps, as if more bullets in the air would have solved anything.
      
      There is nothing anyone could have done to stop that guy, but the damage could have been mitigated if there were stronger gun laws.
      
      So go to hell. As far as I’m concern, you contribute to every death that happened after the tenth or so shot from a single magazine.
    - Bigleyjoshua
      
      and community organizing needs to be emphasized here–it made all the difference.
  - Bigleyjoshua
    
    the swiss are not pycho americans–its not the same climate or culture or conditioned ignorance and vileness.
    
    If everyone had guns murder and mayhem would sky-rocket in america. There are just too many republicans and tea-baggers.
    - QuaddruttersMcfee
      
      Not that your rampant stupidity is even deserving of any illumination, but for any humans who may read this, it is quite not so. The largest ethnic group in America is Germanic, and most of them are descendents of the Almanni tribe which overran the Roman Empire and took possession of the territory that extends from the Rhine valley, much of eastern central France and Switzerland. In later days they were included in the Franks, thus Rhenish or Franco-Rhenish, but also French, and Swiz — it’s all the same tribe. A good place to move away from because the enlightened peace loving and gun hating Euopeans kept having their unfortunate wars there.
Bigleyjoshua

not so blinding–nope. in fact, even your writing is twisted.

if you dont need one, you dont need one. Would pychos be able to shoot people, or massacre people if they had no guns–NO. And we would not have to worry about elected officials getting shot in the head by republicans, or children for that matter–in the spray. We would not have to worry about going to the movies. We would not have to wrorry about sitting in class. We would not have to wroory about ourc hildren sitting in kindegarten and wondering if daddy’s gu is on th eway to blow us all to hell.

Youre damn right–people kill people–so would you gve them chemicals weapons, weapons opf mass destruction, bombs…pain rays….and say oh hey you know what–use at your discretion–just be careful and maye–maybe–get this licence.

You are so blinded by your so not obvious blinding nonsense that you are blinded.

To all gun buts–dont worry–your right to kill is safe and always will be–america was founded on murder and like to protect that right–because a majority of americans are psyco murderers. So even though some few normal people want to take away your WMD–we are considered the crazies–so not to worry crazy people. Your guns are safe–ALWAYS! So when I use logic and reason and empathy to make my point–i know you wont understand and there really is no need to run out and buy a bunch of guns because nobody will ever take them away from you in AMerica–but remember if you ever travel outside your isolation–civilized nations do forbid it and you couold be locked up for your pychoness if concealing a weapon.
- JJJimmmanyC
  
  Foaming at the mouth a little? Only an idiot would think that the people in that theater were better off because none of them were armed. But I bet we have such idiots among us. If psychopaths want a firearm they will get one. If they can’t get one they will use a truck and run it into a fea-market or something. However, if someone in the crowd had a gun with them, it can sometimes be controlled, like it was when a man went berserk in Israel and started squashing people in cars with a giant front end loader. It was a good idea, then someone jumped up on the cab and shot him dead before he could kill anyone else.

Mike Card

OnPoint gets all pissy about my posts, but allows this “Jerry” to get on the phone and act out about the President, Israel, and pretty much any wingnut crap he wants to spout? Whatup with that sh1t??

Mike Card

Plus, this “Bill” guy seems to have won a Pulitzer for something–Texas “reporting?”–but still talks about “the global economy?” For god’s sake, there has been a “global economy” for about 40 years!! Are Pulitzer winners the last people on earth to realize that?

Zing

Do the raids this week mean that Michael Phelps will lose the Spice endorsement?

Bigleyjoshua

romney is most certainly a draft dodger–all the rich are draft dodgers and cowards–how many rich children are in the military–NONE!

Zing

(snicker)

Bigeyjoshua

the rich are happy to sentence your children to death in foreign lands–and love to do so.

Zing

(snort)

Bigleyjoshua

the rich speak all nobly about war and heroism and democracy–and yet–dismantle democracy at every turn, never sign up to fight in actual wars–but happy to send the poor.

When will people see this glaring truth and wake up.

to all soldiers–you are being used and manipulated. The cause you fight for is not your own. Your enemy is not your enemy. Your enemy is closer to home.

Zing

Soldiers of the world, unite!

Bigleyjoshua

the NRA is synonymous with KKK and I suspect harbors NAzi sympathies–its horrifying to know that they control our so-called elected officials.

Gregg

Nah, the NRA is full of Democrats. The KKK is more like the NAACP. Wouldn’t it be fair to say the KKK is the National Association for the Advancement of White people?
- Hidan
  
  No that’s the Tea Party.
  - Gregg
    
    The branding of the Tea Party as racist is a sick travesty.
- J__o__h__n
  
  “The KKK is more like the NAACP.” — I think you lost any credibility to comment on any racial issues with that statement.
  - Gregg
    
    So the KKK is not the National Association for the Advancement of White people? BTW, I don’t think I have any credibility around here to begin with. I’m only interested in honest debate.
Zing

Elected…you got it right for once.

Bigleyjoshua

the think about romney is even if he loses the election he will go back to manipulating presidents with his criminal fortune. Democracy is held hostage by the rich-criminal class

Greyman

Are you arguing that the wealthy are evil, or that the evil
are wealthy? If the former, then take comfort in relative poverty, knowing that
this economic circumstance makes you intrinsically good (you can then flaunt your
moral ostentation with even more vigor); if the latter, then rejoice that you
are not afflicted with envy and greed (you can then parade your poverty and
proudly refuse all offers of employment and charitable contribution). –but if the
wealthy are evil: how can the poor aspire to the circumstance of wealth? –and if
the evil are wealthy: how can the poor resent morality by complaining of their
poverty?
- GodAlmighty
  
  I hope for your sake that this is an attempt at philosophical farce, which is very well done and very funny, by the way: if however this is an actual example of what you take for reason — you may want to reconsider the whole approach on a very basic level.
  - Gregg
    
    It made impeccable sense to me.
- Gyges
  
  most every wealthy people have embraced evil–yes! One compromise after another, one fraud after another, one lie after another, one trick after another, one laborer sqwuashed after another, one ilegal murderous war after another–one more poor person–one more person incernated!
  
  I dont think porr perol resent wealth–they resent people who lord wealth over them and kill people and defraud the sytem–dismantle democracy!
  
  You simplfy your argmeunt and color it purple with seemingly nice rhetoric but you still evade the issues as if to once again–applaud the wealthy and deprived wile victimizing the poor.-well done!
  
  i din’t say I was poor.
  
  And whys should anyone, any of us, buy into this sytem of money equals success or intelligence or morality or heroism? Our system is broken and sick–very very sick–supported by delusional wealth worshiping undereducated cheating maniacs and religious zealots–either worshiping an antiquated propaganda system in the BIble or free trade economics and the priests of this fraud.
  
  Why would anyone want to work for a fraudulent war mongering anti-human industry anyways–I don’t–does that make me more moral or ethical than you–you bet it does! I will rest easy and regret nothing because I know I am better than those who choose to support an inherently deranged system that encourages evil rather than seeks to vanquish it. Do I offend? I should hope so! People never like the truth–even even less–evil prefers the darkness!
  
  Al great thinkers, all great minds, all great innovators live in the margins. keep following the herd. I brave the wolves! because I do not fear them.
  
  Poor people do not complain about ther poverty –what a j…
  
  Poor people seldom complain. But they know the sytem is evil–much of the time. what can a poor person do against trillions of dollars and millions of fools brainwashed to despise them and use them as cannon fodder?
  
  The wealthy are evil. Evil is wealthy. But not all wealth is evil and not all evil is wealthy.
  
  But the fact remains–and you beautifully throw up logical fallacies–our system is inherently evil–because it allows, encourages and institutionalizes the power of the hateful, the decietful, the murderous–and they all happen to be rich. Money and power controls your vote, your nominees, your laws, everything–democracy cannot exist in free market or corporate aristocracy. The supreme court is a stage of puppets stuffed with money–all their decisions then being fraudulent and unconstitutional. The president is whipped by his corporate masters. The senatecongress exists in a revolving door of corporate shills and ceos. All one has to do is look at cheney’s sneering face to see how the rich perceive democracy, humanity, and Americans–none of them are even american–they serve only international corporations and corporate aristocracies–the evidence is in your crumbing america–a third world nation–because of the evil rich.
  
  now, ‘rich’ and ‘wealthy’ must be defined–but any reasonable person knows what I mean.
  
  I dont need you to like me. I You can flag me. YOu can call me stupid. I will sleep well tonight. I am simply right. And billions will agree with me–now, in the future or in their heart. YOu even agree with me–you are just too cowardly to admit it openly surounded by so many fools and EVIL.
  
  There is nothing wrong with having money. But what do you do for your community? A few well-placed charities to soothe your guilt does not correct your apathy, your indifference, your support and involvement in illegal activity, murderous war, corrpution, and destruction of society.
  
  We live in a community. Act like it, or be penalized and removed.
  
  The criminal elite shoudl be incarcerated–made to pay taxes–high high taxes–because we are a society that they liv ein, and evolved in–and owe! If you wont pay taxes we will slap you in the head–hard–incarcertarte you, and confiscate yopur land deeds and property. Just as YOU do with the poor and so-called middle classes. Your loop holes will be actively destroyed–instead of bombing innocent countries for their ethnicity and oil we will give tax havens like the cayman islands on week to respond–if they fail to do so–they will be crushed–bombed. New peace ships–carries built for refugees, medical–fast response ships to humanitarian criss and natuiral disater–will be deployed to serve the innocent–whil we vanquish the institurins in said havens with smart bombs and tomahawk missiles.
  
  In this fair and balanced democracy–a utopian dream–the WMD industries can continue to profit and produce machines designed to aid and ssist–no more ordance, no mre cluster bombs, no more WMD–but they can continue to build science vessels, humanitarian ships with search and rescue capabilites–helicopters, drones, etc–the mission changes. Fewer jobs lost. BOmb makers, gun makers–they will just have to adapt abnd be flexibnale–as the working class poor have been told to do over and over agian.
  
  Dont give me your twisted purple rhetoric–it doesnt effect me. YOu know Im right. But cowards wil never stand up. Cravens like the the system. Vampires. Arrogance. Power mad tyrants. They think they are special. They are nothing. Nothing. And to not stand up to not speak out against such vileness is ‘evil’
  - Gyges
    
    that should say–’very’ wealthy…not every. i should hire some third world-er of dusky skin to type for me–i hear the wages are so low as to be nothing–slaves. So wow what a great deal–might corporations pay no taxes and pay no labor–produce junk for nothing and sell it to you for 10, 000 times its value. Meanwhile the infrastructure crumbles, and the earth convulses with smokers cough and the people die of cancer. not my problem tho–im so rich i can afford isolate myself from humanity in self-contained police monitored havens of materiel pleasure–underpinned by my slaves.

JGC

Am just watching the opening ceremony for the London Olympics. Is it my imagination, or did the Romneys really applaud harder for the contingencies from the Cayman Islands and Switzerland than that for the U.S. during the parade of nations…

Bush’s fault

Your imagination….of course

Gregg

Not that anyone around here would know about it but kudos to Glenn Beck and his “Restoring Love” Rally at Dallas Stadium. Millions of homeless are being fed. Love is a good thing.

Gyges

damage control

Gregg

President Obama is initiating a program just like the one that gave us the housing crisis. Terrific.

http://spectator.org/archives/2012/07/27/and-you-thought-the-housing-cr

JonS

Pathetic that the program would spend any time discussing Romney’s tax returns, his Olympics comments, Ann Romney’s horse, etc and absolutely nothing about the Obama administration’s outrageous disclosure of classified information that has harmed US national security. Romney correctly called it a contemptible situation before the VFW convention. It’s a situation potentially so damaging to our national security that even Sen. Diane Feinstein , Chairman of the Senate Intelligence committee spoke about this earlier this week before she was ” Corey Bookered”. And then mid-week the US admiral who led the Bin Ladin raid said these continued disclosures could cost American lives. If the media did their job, they’d investigate these disclosures and try to determine whether these disclosures were made to advance the Obama campaign. NPR’s failure to even address this issue but instead focus discussion on such trivial issues that most of the public (other than Democratic party hacks) couldn’t care less about , such as Romney’s tax returns, Swiss bank accounts , etc., just reinforces the notion amongst many on the right that NPR ( and sadly On-Point) and the mainstream media are totally in the tank for Obama.

Gregg

The press sure was up in arms about Valerie Plame and it had no consequence as it was a non-issue.
- TFRX
  
  Yep. Jes outin’ a covert operative cos of her husband’s remarks.
  
  Nothing to see here.
  
  If a Dem president did it, the excrement fallout would still be reverberating in the rightwing propaganda press today.
  - Gregg
    
    She wasn’t covert, her husband was determined to be a liar and Richard Armitage (the “outer”) wasn’t even charged, no one was. Why didn’t a year long investigation that cost millions yield an indictment for outing a covert operative? Because it didn’t happen.
    
    There is no comparison to the leaks we are seeing now. Where’s your outrage?
    - TFRX
      
      Pfft.
      
      Just one of Shrub’s (or is it Cheney’s) toadies outing a covert op. Nothing to fuss about?
    - Gregg
      
      That’s the point, there was a fuss. A multi-million dollar prolonged fuss. It yielded zip. You were right the first time: “Nothing to see here”.
    - TFRX
      
      A political toadie of Cheney’s outed a covert op, for purely political purposes, and you try to explain it away.
      
      You gotta lotta noive, knave.
    - Gregg
      
      You’re either ignorant, stupid or lying. It did not happen.
    - Alloren
      
      you should goggle scooter libby
    - Gregg
      
      Please do, he was not charged with outing anyone.
Worried for the country(MA)

The media bias is disgusting. Obama sycophants in the press are really getting desperate. The word must be out that Obama is in serious danger of losing.
- TFRX
  
  Pew has studied your “bias” and says that Romney has not enjoyed a single less-favorable week of coverage than Obama all year through the end of June.
  
  Once again, the mainstream press seems determined to handicap the popularity of every Democrat downwards by about a dozen to fifteen points.
  
  Obama is getting the bad narratives from our “unaligned” press that George W. Bush barely ever got when the latter was bouncing along at 30% favorability.
  
  With a Republican subject, unpopularity might be a fact but is never the story.
  
  *The next study is not out yet.
  - notafeminista
    
    The mainstream press doesn’t need to handicap the Dems, they’re doing just fine by themselves.
    
    Your narrative is false.

potter

It’s not Romney’s positions only, but more and more the kind of person he is revealing himself to be.

Worried for the country(MA)

Like someone who truly cares about the country and exemplifies selflessness with public service for no pay?

JonS

TomK in Boston–
Yesterday you accused Romney of lies and distortions that were ignored by the “corporate media”. Your examples were quite benign and frankly debatable, especially Romney’s challenging Obama’s statement that entrepreneurs ” didn’t build it by yourself”. Frankly , I believe if you read all of Obama’s comments, it supports Romney’s interpretation.

But what about Obama’s lies, distortions, etc? Are you troubled by Obama’s outrageous and blatant lies ? Such as: Bain capital was an “outsourcer”. About the only people who still believe there’s any truth to this lie after it was debunked by Factcheck.org and WaPo are Obama hard core supporters. Or that Romney worked at Bain Cap after 1999. Bain capital categorically denies this and several years ago Globe reporters backed Romney’s claim in an article about Romney’s involvement at the Salt Lake City Olympics. What about Obama’s lies about the ACA and that “we’re bending the cost curve, people will keep the insurance they have , and that it will reduce the deficit “, etc. Only the most uninformed still believe this crap. What about Obama’s mentioning in Dec 2010 that expiration of all the Bush tax cuts ( including the top 1%) would have a ruinous effect on the economy when GDP was then 3.2% but now insists that taxes be raised on the 1% with GDP declining and now at 1.5%? I guess the economy be damned when the only job Obama wants to preserve is his own.
What about Obama’s recent claim that he’s seeking to raise taxes to the 39.6 marginal rate experienced during Clinton’s administration? Obama either doesn’t know or he’s lying. The top rate is now 35%. Obama wants it to increase to 39.6% plus the 3.8% Medicare insurance tax that’s part and parcel of Obamacare. That’s a marginal rate of 43.4% for ordinary income , or nearly 10% higher than Clinton’s rate. What about being the great uniter who when asked by McCain about the lack of transparency surrounding the health care negotiations in 2010 Obama said ” the campaign is over , John”.

His entire campaign sadly is centered around doling out benefits to identity groups rather than appeal more broadly to all Americans. He has become as Newt Gingrich said, the Food Stamp president. Unless you’re an illegal immigrant , single woman who can’t afford contraceptives , on the welfare dole, public sector employee, college student with significant loans, or green sector parasite , you feel ignored by Obama. Obama’s incompetence, failure at leadership, failed policies , and unparalleled arrogance deserves no one’s vote come November.

Gregg

Well said JonS. The thing that gets me in general (I don’t know about TomK) is commenters here cannot understand how anyone could legitimately criticize the President on his performance. Your examples are quite clear and really just scratch the surface. But so many go straight to, “it must be racism”, “it’s just a hate of all things Democrat”, or “it’s Fox news”. Why would any reasonable person say such when Obama is such an empirically documented disaster?
- JonS
  
  Thanks Greg. So many of the left wing bloggers who are found on this site rarely offer any substantive criticism (rare exception is TomK). Rather they offer mindless emotional criticism with their racism charges ” being the last refuge for scoundrels.” When they have nothing to say, they use the Rush Limbaugh, Fox News or WSJ argument. What they don’t realize is that these media outlets would not have the popularity and impact they have if the mainstream media did their job. If they want to shut down these outlets , they should demand more from the mainstream media.Regrettably, the NYT, CBS and NBC long ago abandoned their journalistic integrity.
  - Gyges
    
    What? The extremely right-wing radical propaganda of the media isn’t right-wing enough for you? You are scary.
    
    how can you say, non-racist people are scoundrels, or that citing your racism is a refuge of scoundrels–a scoundrel–what does that even mean?
    
    I give up–i will start having conversations with the wall–it has more incite than neo-cons (and democrat disciples).
    
    Oh but, this internet chatting–it is talking to the wall.
- Alloren
  
  Gregg I’m sorry for the post apocalyptic shell crater you find yourself in. What is it you need that you don’t have?
  - Gregg
    
    Plenty but mainly an Obama free white House.
    - Alloren
      
      wants and needs, there’s a fundamental difference. I have to applaud your grit, despite all you lack you still have a computer and and the time to sit in front of it shining a light into the abyss.
    - Gregg
      
      I need an Obama free White House but I don’t want much. I’m a simple man.
    - Alloren
      
      The day after the election you will probably wake up and go about your business.Unfulfilled needs pretty much result in death.But the point is after 3+ years of Obama your needs are met and your wants are few and you think this will change if high earners are taxed at a higher rate and loopholes and special provisions are eliminated. The way our country can best sustain itself is with a well fed, well housed, well educated citizenry who have necessary work to do. Promoting the general welfare is the what for and why we have a government.If the wealthiest 10% of the population controls 89% of the country’s wealth they need to pay that percent of the cost of running and maintaining our country. Thats my liberal, pro-union, pro choice, pro-veteran view.
    - Gregg
      
      I’m setting my sights a little higher than mere survival.
    - Alloren
      
      That would be what? Apotheosis? There’s nothing mere about survival it’s wise not to disparage it.
- Gyges
  
  in what ways?
  
  Yes, I agree he is basically a corporate shill–but one must consider he is not a king and must work with other corporate representatives in the house–majority republican–who resist democracy and doing the business of government at every turn–so if you want to blame sb–blame republicans.
  
  Obama does not act alone–in fact he is paralyzed by republican congress.
  
  Obama is a rightist–he is a republican in heart. As most democrats are. We have republicans and extremists on the right. There is no left in America–at least not covered by propaganda news. The left is obfuscated and criminalized (left equals humanity).
  
  Obama–trying to create a United America–baaad!
  Obam–trying to improve your water quality—baaad!
  Obama trying to create jobs at home rather than china–baaaad!
  Obama trying to upgrade our third world infrastructure–with such things as internet and 21c transportation, fast trains, Eco-friendly cars, fuel efficiency—baaaad!
  Obama–trying to make education more affordable, preserve jobs, and bring health care to millions–baaad!
  
  We hate each other so why would want to help each other–let them bleed in the street–wow what a sense of community–makes me want to wave my flag in love of country because we love each other so much–gag!
  
  Barrack has been a failure in almost every respect–a corporate shill–yes. But more importantly–he was blocked by other corporate shills on the republican and teabag side in the house–
  
  the country is in its death throes because of republicans.
  
  So why do you want barrack out so bad?
  You still haven’t cited any reasons (especially that make sense)–
  
  this is what leads people to call you racist.
  
  When people wanted mini-me and his lap dog bush out of the ‘white’ house it was glaringly obvious that they were criminals orchestrating the destruction of America, and the world–they are ‘evil’ yes–but white–wow a relief–they were white and talked really funny like–so that made them not scoundrels.
  
  I do not follow Obama but i do not necessarily want him out of office–i want corporations and money out of democracy and politics. Take that out and Obama would be the best president this country has ever seen–probably.
  
  But Nader would be better, stein would better, Dennis Kucinich would be better…
  
  we need cumulative voting…and a national election day holiday…
  - Paul Bunyan
    
    I would be very proud and supportive of Stein. First woman. And one that inspires and people can admire–not some barbie doll gun lover chewing bubble gum and singing Brittany.
    
    Stein commands respect. She would have a hard road against corporate-republican controlled democracy but her victory would rally millions–to democratically overthrow corporate aristocracy.
    
    but we must elect other third parties, and greens to state governments, and local governments, to congress–in order to give her support.
    
    or else she beats her head against a wall like obama has done.
  - Gregg
    
    Obama is dividing America not uniting it. He pits the rich against the poor, blacks against whites, the religious against the secular, the private sector against the public sector, the old against the young and on and on. The debt is hideous. The added regulations are stifling. He’s a serial liar. He can’t even pass a budget, his proposals have gone down 97-0 in the Senate and 414-0 in the House. He is a disaster.
    
    If you think it has anything to do with race then you are sick.
Alloren

Romney stopped working at Bain in 1999, he devoted himself to the Salt Lake olympics 12 hrs. a day 6 days a week for 3 years . In addition to many millions of dollars from private backers he was able to conjure 1.3 billion dollars from the US government, some of which was federal grant money for infrastructure that was in the pipeline for SLC but jumped up for the Olympics, somewhere around $800m was just extra taxpayer money for the games. over $800,000 per participant was spent. All of this was for 16 days of athletic competition. Can you fiscal conservatives explain how this was an act of fiscal conservativism. You can find out yourself what the oft quoted John McCain had to say about it all. Is it also your contention that the Medicare insurance tax is no longer capped, as is Social Security? You have new information that I at least haven’t heard of, thanks for the information. I’ll pass it along as gospel. Can you tell me where that information is so I can verify? I’m not an illegal immigrant nor a single mother, not on the dole, not a public sector employee or a sudent and yet it just doesn’t matter to me that I am not the object of the President’s attention. I’ll do okay on my own.
- Gregg
  
  I don’t see how anyone would claim Romney’s work with the Olympics was an act of fiscal conservatism. Nor have I heard that claim. He took a failing process and made it successful. That’s business acumen, it’s working with and inspiring people and it’s management skills but the object of the Olympics is not make money.
  - Alloren
    
    I thought Romney claims to be a fiscal conservative, so why doesn’t it apply to his admittedly able saving of the Salt Lake Olympics? Does it mean that fiscal conservatism is a mantle that can be assumed or discarded as required? Open the spigots for the “inspirational spectacle” but don’t feed the hungry, clothe the naked or heal the sick at the public expense.
    - Gregg
      
      It’s apples and oranges, the Olympics have nothing to do with fiscal sanity.
    - Alloren
      
      So Romney was an able administrator of something that has nothing to do with fiscal sanity. By all means make him President.
    - Gregg
      
      Exactly. BTW, Bain was all about fiscal sanity, both their own and their clients.
    - Alloren
      
      yeah but he had to quit that in 1999, think he can still bring it?
    - Gregg
      
      I hope so, I have no confidence in Obama.
- JonS
  
  The reason you haven’t seen any negative ads or articles about Romney’s stewardship of the SLC Olympics is, quite frankly, there’s really nothing to criticize , or in the case of Obama , lie about. You may have forgotten but the SLC Olympics occurred shortly after 9-11 and much of the Feds $ was used for security, which if you recall ,was a big concern then.
  
  The 3.8% surtax applies to interest, dividends, and cap gains income for households making at least $250K (or indiv. making $200K). It also applies rental income,, royalties, interest and some annuity income.There is no $ limit as with Social security w/h.As an additional penalty, these same “high earners” will see an increase on Medicare Part A tax rates of 0.9%. There is no $cap on these contributions.
  
  If you’re not one of the enumerated takers that I’ve identified above , then you may fall in the general category of uninformed brain dead idiots often referred to as Obama zombies. They’re generally found standing behind Obama when he gives another speech filled with cliches , straw man arguments, or outright lies before a high school, college , or GM car factory.
  - Alloren
    
    The surtax sounds like a good idea. Don’t call names Jon, it gives iinsight into the quailty of your character.
    - JonS
      
      Frankly I can’t believe anyone with half a brain and is not dependent on the government for handouts, subsidies, or favors would vote for Obama. In my lifetime , he is simply the absolutely worst president ever and the greatest thing to ever happen to Jimmy Carter. His presidency is an unmitigated failure.
    - Kairos
      
      You know that Food Stamps increased under Bush more than anyone esle…?
      
      But hey, lets cut the food stamps and all social welfare and get on with the revolution. God knows the Occupy numbers will grow. Seriously, read a little history. The French Revolution proves inequality doesn’t work–the poor will rise, just not in the way your imagination thinks it will.
      
      By the way, go read the SNAP’s website: food stamps amount to around $2 to $8 a day, depending on family size.
    - JonS
      
      You can have your own set of conclusions but not facts . Please don’t engage in reductio ad absurdum like so many on the left. I take exception to your assinine statement that those seeking to reduce social benefits to sustainable levels (or just slow the growth in spending) desire all social welfare should be cut. It make make you feel morally superior but take it from me –it’s all in your head.
      
      Also –get your facts straight. According to the USDA, there are now 44.7 million people on food stamps, an increase of 93.8% from Bush’s first year in 2001 compared to Obama’s first year in 2009. In 2001, there were 17.3 million people on food stamps and in Bush’s last year (2008) there were 28.2million, an increase of 10.9 million or 63% over EIGHT (8)years. But in Obama’s 3 years , the number of food stamp recipients increased 16.5million–going from 28.2 m to 44.7m–an increase of 59% in just THREE years. If you compare average increase per year then food stamp recipients increased 1.5m/yr under Bush versus 5.5m/yr under Obama. If you compare just the first 3 years under Bush and Obama, food stamp recipients have increased by 111% , from 21.2 million to 44.7m. Finally , in Bush’s last year, we spent $15.5 billion on food stamps versus $71.81million in 2011.
    - JonS
      
      Also –don’t forget Obama’s effort to coordinate with the Mexican government that promotion of food stamps to Mexican illegals. Or the TV ads that the Dept of agriculture wanted to broadcast about the availability of food stamps.
    - Kairos
      
      And yet you neglect to account for the food stamps during Obama’s first year that can hardly be called his fault since he was given a GDP that was contracting at 8%.
      
      Do yourself a favor and go to the CBO and look up the leading drivers of the deficits. Tell me where on the list are food stamps a driver because I didn’t see it listed. Now the actual drivers of the deficits I did see like the Bush Tax Cuts (1), the war (2), Medicare Part D (3), which by the way is the one riddled with fraud, which Obamacare reforms in 2014 eliminating the fraud on the supplier side.
      
      Personally, I like my president to try to solve actual problems instead of trying to cut food for the poor. By the way, Germany’s social safety net is a lot more robust than ours, but they don’t seem to have budget problems. Probably because they focus on serious issues.
    - JonS
      
      supposedly the recession ended in 2009 and after a $1.0 trillion stimulus all would be well. So don’t exclude foood stamp recip[ients in 20009. Anyway, the principal reason for the foood stamp increase is that the eligibilityrules were relaxed. And don’t tell me about Germany. I happen to work for one of the largest German companies in the world and am very familiar with the social safety net in Germany. Germanyjust increased its retirement age.

Richard Bucksar

I read and listen to all this B/S, and wonder what “they” / our government / corporate have done to us as a people? There are 50 million Americans without adequate health care, 20 million people un or under employed, many college students are under tons of debt, and Social Security and MediCARE is under threat. Where is the outrage? Why haven’t students, seniors, the former middle-class, or the poor, marched on Washington and shut it down? Voting is no longer enough. I consider myself to be an “Independent” voter, but I am restricted to voting for Republicans or Democrats. George Carlin said it best. “Democracy thrives on the illusion of choice”.

Gregg

JGC, you wrote in a reply to Gerrych:

“Gregg, what is your perspective on horse therapy for illness and
5-figure tax deductions? I would appreciate your uniquely informed
perspective. (Serious)”

It’s legit. We have been involved with this for 15 years or so. It’s called Hippotherapy. We work mostly with children. I have seen some amazing things. We had a little girl who had to wear inflatable pads on her arms because she would beat her head uncontrollably, I think she was about 5. Once on the horse she was all smiles. We had a 7 year old boy who was paralyzed from the waist down win a blue ribbon in a lead line class and the judge did not know he was handicapped. There is no price that can be paid to give him that self-assurance. We’ve had autistic children who were uncommunicative suddenly come alive with animated glee. It has a lasting effect beyond the time on the horse and parents are absolutely stunned and grateful. Hope is priceless. One problem people that can’t walk or have trouble walking have is their internal organs settle and don’t get the movement they need. Sitting on a horse that’s walking does that for them. It’s hard to quantify all the benefits but it encompasses much more than the physical heath. The physical therapist who is here every Monday and Wednesday tells me it’s actually a problem because she has to move kids along who have shown so much improvement that they no longer qualify for the program. I wish you could see it and talk to the parents, it’s amazing and I’ve barely touched on it.

Forgive me for being reluctant to link our farm’s website but I don’t want to publish my particulars on this site. I will, however, make an effort to take and post some pictures at some point.

I can’t speak much to the tax situation. I am not aware of a tax credit but do know there are deductions. We have had many horses donated. The donator gets a tax deduction when that happens. So a horse that may be hard to sell can be useful and the deduction is better than nothing. We determine the worth of the horse and provide the paperwork. It’s never 5 figures but the price of horses varies dramatically.

Gregg

The practice requires many volunteers, special tack, wheel chair ramps and training both for the horses and volunteers. We have a covered riding arena or we could not do it in the summer heat. We have 3 licensed physical therapist. There’s also insurance. It’s not really a situation where anyone can just go ride a horse.
JGC

Thank you for your follow-up information on this subject.(I have been away with family on summer vacation so it took me a while to discover your return post.) I can definitely see the benefits of a program like Hippotherapy for those people with mobility and/or communication difficulties. I am going to mull this over for a bit, then maybe continue on during this week’s Friday forum (August 10, 2012).

Kairos

Did anybody here Bob Coastos say that Finland gives speeding tickets according to income…? Wow, and republicans in America think that a 3% tax hike is the first step to Stalinism.

Gregg

Who determines how much income people have?
- Kairos
  
  Did you seriously just ask that? Come on, Gregg. I’m sure the Fins have a data bases with tax returns, etc., on all its citizens.
  
  But you see how it is nice to get a global perspective on things. Perhaps, now, you see how radical it is to have such a religious stance against the modest proposal of a 3% tax hike. It’s not like the rich can go anywhere else, the rest of the G20 nations are relatively harder on the rich (except China).
  - Gregg
    
    Well, since you didn’t answer let me give you a wild crazy theory: The vast majority people determine for themselves how much money they earn. I understand that if true it changes everything.
    
    I seriously would appreciate an answer though. I may not have asked properly. Who decides how hard you study in school? Who decides whether you have children before you have a job? Who decides whether you do drugs or drink? Who decides how dependable you are? Who decides how ethical you are? Who decides how much it bothers you to be kept up by others?
    - Gregg
      
      BTW Kairos, I did not comment on the 3% tax hike. I’m not even sure what you mean, I assume you are talking about the coming tax hikes across the board when the Bush tax cuts expire. The bottom rate will rise 5% while the top will rise less (4.6%). All the rates in between will rise 3%. Raising any rate in this economy is opposed by Bill Clinton, Nancy Pelosi and all the Democrats who would not support is when they had the majorities. Oh yea, ad the former Obama. It’s opposed because it would not raise revenue and would stifle growth.
    - Kairos
      
      Yeah Yeah Yeah: raising taxes decreases revenue, cutting taxes increases revenue, the poor our rich and the rich our poor, banks are more benevolent than a democratically elected government, Jesus loves the rich, teacher wages are the real problem, and so on.
    - Gregg
      
      I didn’t say any of that.
    - Kairos
      
      I think we know what rich is. I see a lot of conservatives pretend to think that rich is an ambigous state. They usually do this to avoid arguments. I don’t know if you have ever been around hot-shot CEOs, but they act like a million bucks is nothing yet they are fiercely against modest tax hikes. They are rich. Middle income is around $48T, while the top bracket is $250T, which is also a lot of money that provides a secure future even with a tax rate of 39%, even with a tax rate of 50% which American history has proven. Instead of wallowing in ambiguity, Gregg, you should just face the fact that our public intitutions are falling apart while top grows in income. If I have to I can look up the line where Adam Smith says that the wealthy have a responsiblity to maintain public institutions. This is the social contract, and republicans seem to want to burn. If the reverse were true–public institutions were thriving while the top 1% has less than 5% of national wealth–I would be a republican.
      
      You can pretend all you want what is rich or not rich, but people in the top tax bracket don’t have to worry about anything (unless they live like an NBA player).
      
      If you took a global view at things: Obama’s tax proposals are kinder on the rich than almost all G20 nations. From a broader perspective: the republicans are the radicals. If it were my choice, $250T to $1M would pay 44% tax rate; $1M and up would pay 49%. To which you say would kill growth, but where would these people go? Would they quit their jobs and not make anything? Would they still lay off people even while demand for more product increases? Face it: Demand is the number one reason why businesses hire. Once you see that the economy is made of supply and demand (not just supply), you will see that the rich have to adhere to the social contract. What I propose is not radical–it is in fact right wing compared to the rest of the G20 nations, and in fact quite conservative if you look at the tax rates during the golden age of the American middle class.
      
      I want the Glass-Steagall regulations that kept America safe for almost 70 years, and a tax rate on the top that is significantly less than America’s most productive periods. That is reasonable. What is unreasonable is to deregulate, lower taxes, and break labor unions to the levels of the pre-Depression era. That is republican hubris, and why they are in serious need of a history lesson.
    - Gregg
      
      I give up, I don’t know what the definition of rich has to do with anything. I don’t know why you believe raising taxes in this economy wouldn’t be economic disaster. You seem to be saying individual choices have no bearing on income. I disagree. Income is a choice.
      
      Do you realize revenue as a percentage of GDP was less when the top rate was 90% ?
    - Kairos
      
      I’m not saying that individual choices doesn’t influence outcomes–I’m saying that there is a balance between individual will and the environment.
      
      I have never said that we should tax the rich 90%! I recognize the Laffer Curve. And raising taxes on the consumer class would cause a recession because the economy is currently hurting on the demand side–because the supply and capital side has all the wealth. This is as simple as it can get: supply and demand needs to be as balanced as possible right…?…the consumer class can’t really buy products if their wages our being cut, tuition is going up, and people are under water on their mortgages. This isn’t rocket science–but you need to stop worring out this robust individualistic ideology you have. It’s okay to preach individualism when a society adheres to the social contract and provides equal opportunity. But the range of unequal opportunity–from Romney to the kid who grows up on food stamps–is far too wide. And I know that you will straw man a few cases of people beating the odds in order to turn a blind eye to the inequality, but the odds shouldn’t be so great. And anyone can understand that.
    - Gregg
      
      But you originally brought up Finland’s practice of traffic fines being determined by income. To be fair you did not advocate it but seemed to not reject it either. I think it’s a terrible idea unless one considers their income to be something they are a victim of.
      
      I have a fundamental disagreement with your notion of demand. I also don’t see how raising taxes increases it unless you redistribute it. I believe redistribution is not stimulative. It’s dipping water out of the deep end of the pool and pouring it into the shallow end.
      
      Requiring business to pay employees more than the market dictates is destructive and even if it increased demand it’s bad advise to tell people not to save or pay down debt but instead to go out and spend. That’s what got us in to this mess.
      
      Supply comes first.
    - Kairos
      
      And seriously, take a look at that paragraph I wrote and tell me that anything is unreasonable and unpresidented. Everybody talks about getting back to the America we once were. It’s not socialism, it’s not far left, it’s rational, it’s been tried, and it worked.
    - J__o__h__n
      
      I requested to be born rich but that didn’t happen.
    - Gregg
      
      It means more if you earn it yourself. Or is it your position that you have no say in the matter whatsoever?
    - J__o__h__n
      
      You have some say but there are plenty of other factors.
    - Gregg
      
      Thank you. No one seems to want to admit you have any say or that “other factors” are not an automatic poverty sentence. Many can be overcome. Life isn’t fair. Nothing is easy except complaining.

Guest

I have been following discussions on numerous websites about the Executive Order “White House Initiative On Educational Excellence For African Americans” that President Obama signed on July 26, 2012. I have been looking for an explanation of this objective contained in the order:

“(vi) reducing the dropout rate of African American students and helping African American students graduate from high school prepared for college and a career, in part by promoting a positive school climate that does not rely on methods that result in disparate use of disciplinary tools…”

The website discussions conclude that “promoting a positive school climate that does not rely on methods that result in disparate use of disciplinary tools” means that members of major racial and ethnic groups must be penalized at equal rates, regardless of individuals’ behavior. It requires, in effect, a quota system for discipline and assumes an equal infraction rate among all groups. A Google search on the phrase “disparate use of disciplinary tools” doesn’t find any favorable interpretations. Has anyone seen an alternative interpretation? It’s puzzling that a previous Executive Order on Hispanic education (10/19/2010) didn’t include the “disparate use” disciplinary rule.

Kairos

Jon S, I would trade America’s current economic policies for Germany’s without blinking across the board. By the way, I would be on the right in Germany. I think there safety net is too strong, seriously.

I actually prefer Japan’s policies even with their low taxes on the rich. They get away with flatter taxes because unions are very strong: making their CEO to average income 10:1. That’s more of the Adam Smith way of doing capitalism. When that happens, most of use can pay around 30% taxes and fund our public institutions. But in America, CEO to average income is around 385:1, and we have a similar tax code to Japan, and do you understand what that means for America?

We can either work hard and pay our taxes like the Germans, or let unions close the wage gap and have flat taxes like the Japanese. One or the other–we don’t need both. Liberals and conservatives should agree on one or the other, but it will never happen. That’s the real issue with our shrinking middle class and the reason why more and more people need social welfare. America’s safety net is where only the extremely uneducated want to be. People with college degrees don’t want to be on food stamps. In Sweeden where everybody makes $40T, I can see how nobody would get off their butts to produce anything, but America is on the opposite end of that spectrum. We didn’t just have 30 years of republicanism to turn into Greece. The rich ain’t poor and the poor ain’t rich in America. Food stamps and welfare ain’t driving budget deficits. It’s a stupid argument on the republicans part that entices the social Darwinism on the right wing, but it’s not budget problem, @337b9f05b0958dbf624107282ffa8eed:disqus 2 a day can’t sustain a livelihood, and it ain’t hurting top income because top income is increasing.

Guest

Mark Twain: “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.”�

from Scott Winship, Brookings Institution, 1/17/2012: “I was surprised to realize that the Administration had defined “upward mobility into the middle class” in such a way that it did not count “upward mobility into higher-than-the-middle-class.” This unusual definition had the effect of understating how many poor people become at least middle class, which is certainly the relevant figure. Krueger’s claim of a shrinking middle class relies on the same peculiar definition. Specifically, “middle class” is defined as having a household income at least half of median income but no more than 1.5 times the median. I re-ran the numbers using the same definition and data source as Krueger and found that the entire reason the middle class has “shrunk” is that more households today have incomes that put them above middle class. That’s right, the share of households with income that puts them in the middle class or higher was 76 percent in 1970 and 75 percent in 2010—two figures that are statistically indistinguishable. For that matter, I am not discovering fire here; Third Way made the same point in early 2007. A shrinking middle class is only a problem if it reflects fewer people reaching the middle class.”
- Kairos
  
  I don’t know what you are arguing against. You didn’t address anything I said, but you replied to me.
  
  But here you go: http://money.cnn.com/2011/11/08/news/economy/global_income_inequality/index.htm
  
  I especially laughed at this nugget of yours:
  
  “I re-ran the numbers using the same definition and data source as Krueger and found that the entire reason the middle class has “shrunk” is that more households today have incomes that put them above middle class”
  
  The gap between the 1% and the rest of the country has gotten wider, and it seems you don’t know how percentages work. But you keep thinking that your winner and loser polictical vision makes room for a middle class. In reality, unions and the New Deal created the American middle class, and republicanism is doing all it can to bring us back to the pre-Depression era. Read Wealth of Nations: unions are necessary to keep bartering power in the hands of the majority (the very thing that ended serfdom) and, one of my favorite passages, “The sovereign has only three duties to attend to: first, the duty of protecting the society from the violence and invasion of other independent societies; secondly, the duty of protecting, as far as possible, every member of society from the injustice or oppression of every member of it, or the duty of establishing an exact administration of justice; and, thirdly, the duty of erecting and maintaining certain public works and certain public institutions, which it can never be for the interest of any individual, or small number of individuals, to erect and maintain; because the profit could never repay the expense to any individual or small number of individuals, though it may frequently do much more than repay it to great society.”
  
  And I love that you quoted Mark Twain, a world famous liberal who didn’t take kindly to the wealthy. All the more reason to read books, and actually read Twain instead of quoting the same quotation everybody else uses.

Kairos

Gregg, up here.

First, I’m not saying that we should do what Finland does. I mentioned it to give our conservative friends the global perspective they lack. One you see what the rest of the world does and what America has done in the past, all of the sudden what liberals say pretty rational and even. That was my lone objective with the Finland comment.

Second, unions pushing up wages is apart of the natural market. (Again, you guys really need to read Adam Smith.) Unions and competition with public employment wages push up private market labor wages–that’s about it.

You also don’t seem to understand that the lack of funding to drive down tuition rates is killing demand. People are paying off student debt and saving for their kids tuition at the same time, and this is driving down demand and causing a bubble. This is one of the reasons why Smith says that we have a duty to maintain our public institutions. That’s one of the way taxes on the top will help the situation. Another reason to tax the wealthy besides drive down the deficits is to increase public employment to around 20% of the economy to increase demand and quit reducing wages to public employment to help demand.

And it is not whether supply or demand comes first or not–to say otherwise, you have shown that you really don’t understand that it’s about balance more than anything. In the 1970s, labor outweighed capital, thus we needed a dose of suppy side policy. There is no argument about that other than to what degree. Today, 30 years after the Reagan revolution, capital outweighs labor, and so we now need to help demand to create balance between supply and demand. This is really simple and obvious. This isn’t about individualism or the social contract–on the most fundamental level, we have to balance supply and demand.

And it is far more likely that the top can give up owning a second home than the middle class will give up sending their kids to college. That is a reality that republicans have to face. And everything that I talk about has been done. It’s not crazy to spend on infrastructure since the Labor Department says the multiplier effect for the last 30 years has been 1:1.8. Everything that I say and everything that Obama says is a brand of American capitalism that has been done before. And I’m not being ideological: I grew up republican and I voted for Bush, and I thought about voting for McCain, but I have become a solid Obama supporter who criticizes him from the left. But I can easily return to the right depending upon any given economic condition. I’m like this now because there is no excuss to not try to do what Germany is doing. If there was opportunity more equal, like there it is in Germany, I would be preaching individual effort, but until then I’ll be on the left. George Romney achieved social mobility in economic conditions that were to the left of the ones I talk about, his son went to college and became a venture capitalist in a time when economic conditions were far left of now, and now Mitt is 65, far more richer than his father, and pays far less taxes than his father. What happened? At least Obama and Clinton were self-made men who used intellectual labor instead of a face for acting and their fathers’ wealth to get where they are. Kind of ironic, huh. It makes sense to that the people who actually achieve social mobility think they should pay back to the society that makes their wealth possible.

Gregg

Many of us look at Europe and are horrified at what some consider “rational and even”. Our global perspective is fine, thank you very much.
- Kairos
  
  Then quit calling Obama a far leftist since he took the republican solution of healthcare that was a response to Hilarycare. The Europeans are to the left, no doubt about it. But we can take Europe out of the abstract and look at Germany for example. If you are “horrified” by what Germany is doing, there’s no help for you. You would be a complete ideologue. Surely there is something Germany is doing that is right…. I think you should just face the fact that this country has moved too far to the right, economically.
  - Gregg
    
    I disagree completely. The country has moved too far to the left economically. Keynesian economics does not work.
    - Kairos
      
      Corporate profit to wage ratio is the same as it was right before the great depression. CEO income to average income is 385:1. These are do to the weakening of unions over the last thirty years.
      �
      Individual taxes on the rich are some of the lowest amongst G20 nations–far lower than the taxes of the post-depression era and even the majority of the Reagan presidency. But the Reagan revolution has transformed America and has weakened unions and the New Deal, the very things that created the middle class.
      
      I think you are deluded to think that supply side economics works in all economic conditions, which proves my point more so that you are just an ideologue.
    - Gregg
      
      I don’t care one iota how much any CEO makes. It’s none of my business. If you want to become a number instead of an individual then by all means join a union. As long as it’s in the private sector I have no problem. I also don’t care what other nations tax rates are. Europe ain’t exactly kicking ass. Merkel told Obama to pound sand with his advise and they are doing better than most over there.
      
      It’s funny that you call me an ideologue when you are the one wanting to hurt the economy just so you can feel better about soaking the rich. I’d rather see a robust economy with opportunities everywhere for those willing to seize them. Ideology be damned. You also mentioned a history lesson, how about looking at the present and the utter failures of this administration.
    - Kairos
      
      I should just copy and paste this paragraph because you can’t seem to argue against it and you refuse to see its practicality:
      
      I want the Glass-Steagall regulations that kept America safe for almost 70 years, and a tax rate on the top that is significantly less than America’s most productive periods. That is reasonable. What is unreasonable is to deregulate, lower taxes, and break labor unions to the levels of the pre-Depression era. That is republican hubris, and why they are in serious need of a history lesson.
    - Gregg
      
      I’m fine with Glass/Steagal, certainly Dodd/ Frank is a fiasco. Your talk of the top rate gives too much credence to it’s influence. When the rate was higher there were more loopholes and deductions. It was a different time with different problems and a different economy. Raising the top rate in this economy and expecting things to be analogous is, with all due respect, crazy. It is nothing but getevenwithumism. It will not improve the lives of anyone. “Regulations” is meaningless until you put some meat on the bone. They can be awesome or awful ($46B/year increase on business since Obama). Saying we need more regulations (or less deregulation) means nothing.
      
      Look Kairos, we disagree. I (and Bill Clinton and Nancy Pelosi) believe raising anyone’s taxes in this economy is suicide. It is not reasonable at all. That people think their probllems have anything to do with the wealth gap is so sad. The snake oil peddlers that convinced them are hideous.

Guests

From The Reading List