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July 25, 2012 at 10:00 AM
The Battle Over Voter ID

With Wade Goodwyn in for Tom Ashbrook.

Pollsters say new voting restrictions could be the difference in some swing states.

A sign concerning today's elections is pictured on a bulletin board in an empty polling place during early voting at the Oklahoma County Board of Elections in Oklahoma City, Monday, Aug 8, 2011. The election for a vacant Senate seat that includes portions of southern Oklahoma County and northern Cleveland County is the first state election since nearly 75 percent of Oklahoma voters approved the voter ID law in November. (AP)

A sign concerning today’s elections is pictured on a bulletin board in an empty polling place during early voting at the Oklahoma County Board of Elections in Oklahoma City, Monday, Aug 8, 2011. The election for a vacant Senate seat that includes portions of southern Oklahoma County and northern Cleveland County is the first state election since nearly 75 percent of Oklahoma voters approved the voter ID law in November. (AP)

Voter ID laws. It’s become a hot battle in the federal courts as we head toward November.  11 state legislatures, nearly all Republican, have passed stricter laws requiring voters to present identification at the polls in the last two years. Republicans say the new laws are necessary to prevent possible voter fraud.

Democrats respond it’s a solution in search of a problem, there’s no evidence of fraud except on the smallest of scales.  The House majority leader in Pennsylvania bragged publicly that new voter ID laws will deliver his state to Romney.   

This hour, On Point: Voter ID, needed authentication or voter suppression?

-Wade Goodwyn

Guests

Ethan Bronner, reporter for the New York Times, his recent article on voter ID laws is here.

Hans von Spakovsky, senior legal fellow and manager of the Civil Justice Reform Initiative at the Heritage Foundation.

Lawrence Norden, deputy director of the Brennan Center’s Democracy Program.

From The Reading List

Philadelphia Inquirer “Today’s protest, sponsored by the Pennsylvania NAACP, almost certainly will fire up racial themes since many charge the voter ID is a GOP plan to surpress African-American votes in a year the nation’s first African-American president seeks reelection.”

Talking Points Memo “Additionally, DOJ requested information on the state’s efforts to educate voters about the new law as well as documents and records supporting a March 14 statement from the office of Gov. Tom Corbett (R) which claimed “99 percent of Pennsylvania’s already have acceptable photo IDs.” (The state’s own data did not support that figure.) Assistant Attorney General Thomas E. Perez requested Pennsylvania send the information to federal authorities within 30 days.”

The New York Times “Four years ago as Viviette Applewhite, now 93, was making her way through her local Acme supermarket, her pocketbook hanging from her shoulder, a thief sliced the bag from its straps.” 

 

 
  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    I’ll be curious to see how many advocates of gun control come on this discussion to tell us why voter I.D. laws are a violation of our rights.

    And before you tell me that voting doesn’t kill anyone, ask yourself whether we’d have gone into Iraq if Gore had become president.

    • Gregg

      I get your point and am on your side on this but I hate you asked the question. I have always maintained Algore would have gone to Iraq based on his statements as veep. At the time, he was more in line with Lieberman whom he chose as running mate.

      • Bob

        I remember Al Gore saying invading Iraq was the wrong thing to do, right after Bush said he was going to do it. Pretty sure on this. Too bad we didn’t do it. Just think of all this country lost. 

        • Gregg

          “We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country”

          “Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Sadaam is in power”.

          -Algore Sept, 23, 2002

          • DrewInGeorgia

            And of course those statements were based on the factual information he was presented with, right?

          • Gregg

            Yes.

    • jefe68

      Are you saying people cannot have a different point of view on gun control than on voting rights?

      Amazing. 

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

         Where did I say that people can’t have a different point of view?  I indicated that it would be interesting to see the numbers.

        I do find it inconsistent to support control in one and freedom in the other.

        • Don_B1

          What does Voter ID “control” other than keeping poor people who do not have birth certificates (there really are thousands!) from voting when it will cost them their jobs (a day spent traveling via bus[?] to a remote government office)?

          When those advocating Voter ID laws also make as part of the bill the funding to get those IDs to everyone that is a citizen, no matter how hard it is to prove, THEN, and ONLY THEN, will I approve that law.

    • John in Amherst

       Yes, Bush being installed by the conservative justices of the SCOTUS in the midst of an election dispute did wind up killing people, and that election is an interesting example to bring up in a discussion of voter fraud and disenfranchisement.  BUT… Do people stick up convenience stores with a voter ID?  Do they kill spouses, rivals, themselves with a voter ID?  If there were tens of thousands of deaths per year directly linked to voter ID, you might have a valid point.

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

         Thousands of American service personnel and tens or perhaps hundreds of thousands of Iraqis aren’t enough for you?  Voting doesn’t cause immediate harm, no, but the long-term consequences are huge.  In the long view, which one is more important?

        • John in Amherst

          The loss of life in Iraq is terrible.  The loss of the right to vote is a very different issue, also terrible if done for partisan advantage, but of a very different nature.  Dragging firearm IDs into a discussion of voter IDs may salve a raw nerve for opponents of FIDs, but the issues differ in consequences, immediacy and implications.  Opposing FIDs springs from the notion that it is a step onto a hypothetical slippery slope that ends with a totalitarian federal government confiscating everyone’s guns and subjugation.  If various governors and state and federal officials were publicly touting their glee that FIDs would deliver citizens into the hands of a given political party, the similarity might be plausible….

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

             The good news is that in most states, there is no firearms I.D.  You have to show a driver’s license or similar to buy a gun and have a quick background check run, but that’s the end of it.  It’s similar to filling out a form to get a voter’s card, but voting doesn’t require a background check.

            My point is that it’s interesting how people who oppose regulation in one often support regulation for the other.  I’m generally against regulation of either.

  • Gregg

    IMO this issue is highly insulting to blacks, at least in so much as the above links suggest. The whole issue stinks. The NAACP says the law is a GOP effort to suppress the black vote. How is it possible to believe such without first believing blacks are too stupid, oppressed, criminally culpable or lazy to obtain a legal ID? Especially compared to whitey, it’s sick. Our system could use some integrity. Requiring voters to show a valid ID is not a lot to ask.

    • Ben

       You don’t fool us. You’re not the least bit concerned about the rights of black people and you know it!

      • Gregg

        That’s sick.

        • DrewInGeorgia

          I agree but I hear no disagreement on your part.

          • Gregg

            I’m not going to dignify racism by getting in the gutter. Ben is welcome to his bigotry.

        • Don_B1

          Yes, you are sick!

    • J__o__h__n

      Wouldn’t blacks be insulted by a white man determining if they should be insulted by something?  You left out poor and without transportation as potential causes but those weren’t inflamatory. 

      • Gregg

        I was referring to the articles linked from the NYT and the Philadelphia inquirer.

        • Don_B1

          Which almost certainly also mentioned poverty and lack of transportation, but which you wouldn’t mention if your life depended on it.

    • Corythatcher

      NEEDLESS impediments to voting are un-American.

      • Pancake Rankin in NC

        …and amount to a poll tax: forced consumption of a government contrived product or privilege.

        • Gregg

          What does privilege (or race or wealth) have to do with a valid ID?

          • Don_B1

            A driver’s license, the most common form of ID, is the exercise of a PRIVILEGE, which is why it costs money to obtain.

            It is EVERY CITIZEN’S RIGHT to vote.

      • Gregg

        Showing ID is not needless and is not an impediment.

  • JGC

    Pennsylvania is one of the states that has changed some aspects of their voter ID requirements, such that Pennsylvania Republicans are crowing that PA’s electoral votes have already essentially been delivered to Romney’s column.

    The official PA state requirements and forms can be found at http://votespa.com

    One U.S. federal law for every U.S. citizen to be aware of is UOCAVA, the Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voting Act, signed into law by President Ronald Reagan in 1986.  This law requires all U.S.states, the District of Columbia and U.S. territories to allow certain U.S. citizens to vote by absentee ballot in U.S. elections.  The people included in UOCAVA are members (and their elible family members) of the seven Uniformed Services and the U.S. Merchant Marine, U.S. citizens employed by the federal government residing outside the U.S. AND OTHER PRIVATE CITIZENS RESIDING OUTSIDE THE U.S.

    People in this category do not need PA issued identification in order to legally vote.  

    • JGC

      An absentee ballot or alternative ballot is still possible to be obtained by aged Pennsylvanians who may or may not have disability problems.  

      Check the above website VotesPA or call their information center at 1-877-VotesPA (1-877-868-3772).
      And call your County Board of Elections to get information on your particular situation. 

    • JGC

      You do not necessarily have to have a PA drivers license in order to vote.  Example: If you are a student at a PA institution of higher learning (community college, seminary, university,etc.) you can use your school ID as long as it has your photo and expiration date on it.

      Another example:  If you are a resident of a PA care facility (assisted living or long term care facility, etc.) you are able to use a document issued by the care facility, which also must include your photo.  (I saw a comment on another forum where someone was upset because they thought they had to transport their invalid mother from her nursing home by ambulance to PA motor vehicles office 40 minutes away to get the non-drivers license.  No.) 

      A current U.S. passport is also acceptable ID.

      • Vasco DeGrabya

        JGC, will you be voting for Romney or Obama?  I thought so.

        • JGC

          I will be voting for Obama by absentee ballot, using my last U.S. address on record, which was in Pennsylvania.

  • AC
  • Kara178

    anyone who doesn’t believe voting fraud is large and routine, especially in democrat cities is a fool or liar.  don’t give me the idiotic bunk that requireing ID is racisty – I’m tired of that silly nonsense.  everyone has ID

  • Hidan

    Yep create a problem that discriminates mainly against minorities and democrats to stop a fake problem.

    The funny this is those same republican are actually trying to court Israeli nationals and asking them to vote in the U.S. election (the whole 700k of them) while trying to pass laws that would block U.S. citizens from voting.

    Why are republicans still so racist in 2012?

    • J__o__h__n

      Because it has worked for them since Nixon. 

  • Hidan

    This is sick,

    GOP Courts Republicans Living In Israel
    http://www.npr.org/2012/07/12/156651962/gop-courts-republicans-living-in-israel

    While denying citizens in the U.S. the right to vote.

    Voter Suppression Efforts Nationwide

    http://99problems.org/2012/05/interactive-map-voter-suppression-efforts-nationwide/

    Suppression tactics can be seen across the nation in places like Indiana, Kansas, and Georgia just to name a few. Recently the Fair Elections Legal Network and Campus Progress, have unveiled their interactive voter suppression map. This map shows us where voters rights are being challenged

    What does this mean for us, you ask?

    Well, the
    Voter ID bill is deigned to disenfranchise the very young and very old
    voters who may not have state IDs, or who have recently moved and do not
    have a current ID with their new address. At first, I didn’t understand
    what the big deal was either, but I learned that in Wisconsin, that
    minorities, and poor and transient people are disproportionately
    effected by this law. If you’re a college student from Milwaukee, living
    in Madison, you may not be able to vote. Or if you are a homeless
    teenager, who wants to exercise your right to vote, you may be denied
    because you have nowhere to receive mail. These may seem like small
    problems, but when you add it all up, many people will lose the right to
    vote.

    Florida GOP Takes Voter Suppression to a Brazen New Extreme
    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/national-affairs/florida-gop-takes-voter-supression-to-a-brazen-new-extreme-20120530
     

  • Hidan

    The GOP, demographics and voter suppression

    We learn from reporter Amy Sherman’s story last week in The Miami
    Herald that this is part of a campaign by Florida Gov. Rick Scott, a
    Republican, to weed non-citizens off the rolls of the state’s voters.
    Initially, Florida claimed roughly 180,000 were possible noncitizens.
    That number was eventually whittled way down to about 2,600 people. In
    Miami-Dade County, where the largest number of them live, 385 have been
    verified as citizens. Ten – 10! – have admitted they are ineligible or asked to be removed from the rolls.
    The
    Herald recently analyzed the list and found it dominated by Democrats,
    independents and Hispanics. Republicans and non-Hispanic whites were
    least likely to have their voting rights challenged

    http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/06/02/2829960/the-gop-demographics-and-voter.html

  • Hidan

    The Pennsylvania Department of State acknowledges that as many as 759,000 residents
    lack the proper ID. That’s 9.2 percent of registered voters, but the
    figure rises to 18 percent in heavily black Philadelphia. The law also
    requires that the photo IDs have expiration dates, which many student IDs do not.The pattern is similar in every state that has enacted these restrictions. Attorney General Eric Holder has said that 8 percent of whites in Texas lack the kind of identification required by that state’s law; the percentage among blacks is three times that.

    If voter suppression goes forward and Romney narrowly prevails, consider the consequences. An overwhelmingly and increasingly white Republican Party, based in the South, will owe its power to discrimination against black and Latino voters, much like the old segregationist Dixiecrats

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/harold-meyerson-gops-voter-id-tactics-could-undermine-a-romney-win/2012/07/24/gJQAKQcZ7W_story.html

  • Hidan

    The GOP War on Voting
    In a campaign supported by the Koch brothers, Republicans are working to prevent millions of Democrats from voting next yearhttp://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-gop-war-on-voting-20110830This text is bold
    As the nation gears up for the 2012 presidential election, Republican officials have launched an unprecedented, centrally coordinated campaign to suppress the elements of the Democratic vote that elected Barack Obama in 2008. Just as Dixiecrats once used poll taxes and literacy tests to bar black Southerners from voting, a new crop of GOP governors and state legislators has passed a series of seemingly disconnected measures that could prevent millions of students, minorities, immigrants, ex-convicts and the elderly from casting ballots. “What has happened this year is the most significant setback to voting rights in this country in a century,” says Judith Browne-Dianis, who monitors barriers to voting as co-director of the Advancement Project, a civil rights organization based in Washington, D.C.

    Republicans have long tried to drive Democratic voters away from the polls. “I don’t want everybody to vote,” the influential conservative activist Paul Weyrich told a gathering of evangelical leaders in 1980. “As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down.” But since the 2010 election, thanks to a conservative advocacy group founded by Weyrich, the GOP’s effort to disrupt voting rights has been more widespread and effective than ever. In a systematic campaign orchestrated by the American Legislative Exchange Council – and funded in part by David and Charles Koch, the billionaire brothers who bankrolled the Tea Party – 38 states introduced legislation this year designed to impede voters at every step of the electoral process.

  • Hidan

    Here are some previous republican efforts to suppress votes amazing enough it targets minorities(shocker right?)

    DECEPTIVE PRACTICES 2.0:
    LEGAL AND POLICY RESPONSES

    http://www.commoncause.org/atf/cf/%7Bfb3c17e2-cdd1-4df6-92be-bd4429893665%7D/DECEPTIVE_PRACTICES_REPORT.PDF

    INTRODUCTION
    In the last several election cycles, “deceptive practices” have been perpetrated in order to suppress voting and skew
    election results. Usually targeted at minorities and in minority neighborhoods, deceptive practices are the intentional
    dissemination of false or misleading information about the voting process with the intent to prevent an eligible voter
    from casting a ballot. It is an insidious form of vote suppression that often goes unaddressed by authorities and the
    perpetrators are virtually never caught. Historically, deceptive practices have taken the form of fl yers distributed in a
    particular neighborhood; more recently, with the advent of new technology “robocalls” have been employed to spread
    misinformation. Now, the fear is deceptive practices 2.0: false information disseminated via the Internet, email and
    other new media.
    In the past, the worst practices involved fl yers distributed in predominantly minority communities. The 2004
    presidential election cycle provides some particularly vivid examples. In Milwaukee, Wisconsin, fl iers purportedly from
    the “Milwaukee Black Voters League” were distributed in minority neighborhoods claiming “If you’ve already voted in
    any election this year, you can’t vote in the presidential election; If anybody in your family has ever been found guilty
    of anything, you can’t vote in the presidential election; If you violate any of these laws, you can get ten years in prison
    and your children will get taken away from you.” In Pennsylvania, a letter with the McCandless Township seal on it
    falsely informed voters that, to cut down on long lines, Republicans would vote on November 2 and Democrats would
    vote on November 3—the day after the election. Similar fl iers were distributed at Ross Park Mall in Allegheny County.
    In Ohio, a so-called “Urgent Advisory” memo on phony Board of Elections letterhead warned voters that if they were
    registered by the NAACP, America Coming Together, the Kerry campaign, or their local Congressional campaign, they
    were disqualifi ed and would not be able to vote until the next election.

  • Hidan

    haha the  Heritage Foundation(Made up of rightwing and neo-cons) has an Civil Justice department?
    Hans von Spakovsky no doubt. Good thing he pushed for violating the civil rights act right?

    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Hans_von_Spakovsky

    “Kennedy said von Spakovsky, a Justice Department lawyer who was Republican Party
    chairman in Fulton County, Ga., worked toward requiring Georgia voters
    to have a photo identification – a requirement critics said would harm
    black voters. Kennedy also contended that von Spakovsky was involved in a
    decision that rejected a recommendation of career Justice Department
    lawyers in a Texas redistricting case. Those lawyers had concluded that the redistricting plan violated the Voting Rights Act of 1965 because it eliminated several districts where minorities had substantial voting power and illegally diluted black and Hispanic voting power” ”

    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Federalist_Society

    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Heritage_Foundation

    “In 1997, von Spakovsky wrote an article for the Georgia Public Policy Foundation, a conservative research group, that called for an aggressive campaign to ‘purge’ the election rolls of felons. Within months of that article’s publication, the V.I.P. helped put von Spakovsky’s idea into action. Phillips met with the company that designed the process for the removal of alleged felons from the voting rolls in Florida, a process that led, notoriously, to the mistaken disenfranchisement of thousands of voters, most of them Democratic, before the 2000 election,”

  • Hidan

    Onpoint could take a look at this,

    Hans Von Spakovsky’s False Conclusions About Georgia’s Voter ID Impacts

    http://www.thenation.com/blog/167241/hans-von-spakovskys-false-conclusions-about-georgias-voter-id-impacts
    These are specious conclusions to draw at best because it relies on a non-existent causation or correlation between the implementation of the state’s voter ID law and voter turnout without controlling for other factors such as the growth in voting age population and the growth in the number of people registered to vote during the same period.I spoke with Charles S. Bullock III, the Richard B. Russell Professor of Political Science at the University of Georgia who said that the state’s voter ID law “is not a cause” for the increase in minority voter turnout and “that you can’t build a case for a causal link” between the implementation of the voter ID law and the increase in minority voter turnout. In fact, voter turnout would have increased in Georgia in the 2008 presidential election with or without the voter ID law for a number of other factors, says Lubbock, including a “gradual increase” in the voting-age population of African Americans, and also the excitement around the possible election of the nation’s first black president. But this does not mean that everyone was able to “easily” get an ID card.

    http://www.thenation.com/blog/167241/hans-von-spakovskys-false-conclusions-about-georgias-voter-id-impacts

    open letter against Von
    http://www.missnexus.com/archives/stop-the-senate-from-confirming-hans-von-spakovsky/

     

  • Andrew – MN

    Why hasn’t anyone come forward with a plan to fix this whole mess by switching to a system in which we dip our thumbs in ink after casting a vote? No one would be able to vote more than once and you’d be able to determine if other voter fraud was actually occurring. If it could work in the Middle East it should be able to work here.

    • TFRX

      There’s always a good idea for this to go begging.

      Now you’ll have to find governors and leges in states run by Republicans who want to fix this. Doing this right isn’t the aim.

  • Hidan

    Rep. John Lewis Speaks Out Against GOP Voter Suppression Efforts

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORYcSjJaQt0

    it is hard and difficult and almost unbelievable that any member,
    especially a member from the state of georgia, would come and offer such
    amendment. there’s a long history in our country, especially in the 11
    states that are — of the old confederacy from virginia to texas, a
    discrim — of discrimination based on race. on color. maybe some of us
    need to study a little contemporary history dealing with the question of
    voting rights. just think, before the voting rights act of 1965, it was
    almost impossible for many people in the state of georgia, in alabama
    new york virginia, in texas, to register to vote, to participate in the
    democratic process.  <strong. the state of mississippi, for example, had a black voting aged population of more than 450,000 and only about 16,000 were registered to vote. one county in alabama was more than 80% but not more than — but not a single registered african-american voter, people had to pass a literacy test. one man was asked to count the jelly beans in a jar. it's shameful to come here tonight and say to the department of justice

    <strong people died for the right to vote. friends of mine. colleagues of mine. speak out against this amendment. it doesn't have a place. i yield to the chairman. this is — i agree with the chairman. this is not the place. i will not yield. i urge my colleagues to vote against this amendment.

    • Hidan

      the state of mississippi, for example, had a black voting aged population of more than 450,000 and only about 16,000 were registered to vote. one county in alabama was more than 80% but not more than — but not a single registered african-american voter, people had to pass a literacy test. one man was asked to count the jelly beans in a jar. it’s shameful to come here tonight and say to the department of justice you must not use one penny, one cent, one dime, one dollar to carry out the mandate of section 5 of the voting rights act. we should be opening up the political process and letting all our citizens come in and participate. people died for the right to vote. friends of mine. colleagues of mine. speak out against this amendment. it doesn’t have a place. i yield to the chairman. this is — i agree with the chairman. this is not the place. i will not yield. i urge my colleagues to vote against this amendment.

  • Vasco DeGrabya

    The part of this issue that bothers me most is how obviously partisan it is.  Republicans want to tighten the voter ID laws against the traditional constituency of their opponents.  Who doesn’t see this?  You can try to do this, but please don’t claim some sort righteousness on this issue.

    Suppression ALWAYS favors conservative candidates.  If every citizen were required to vote in every election, do you think ANY conservatives would hold office?  President Obama’s election is a great example.  Obama would have had no chance to win a traditional electorate.  Greatly increased turnout among the young and minorities gave him the election.  That is why conservatives are trying to make it harder for those constituencies to vote this time around.

    Voter fraud?  Puh-lease.  I’d respect it more if you were just honest about your intentions.

    • notafeminista

      “Obama would have had no chance to win a traditional electorate.”

      Are you suggesting that President Obama was not elected on his merits and policy proposals but rather based on the color of his skin?

      • Che’ Riviera

        I’m not sure why the color of his skin would matter to the youth vote.  If any candidate carries and motivates voters age 18-30, you are in great shape.

        • notafeminista

          What then, did you mean by traditional electorate?  How do you define “traditional”?

      • John in Amherst

         I’d say it was DESPITE the color of his skin.  Sometimes good ideas DO hold sway.

    • MrNutso

      And why was this not an issue in 2000, 2004, or 2008?

      • Hidan

        Acorn was the devil dog in 08,

      • John in Amherst

         Voter suppression not an issue in 2000?  One word: Florida.  In 2004?  Ohio.  In 2008, the Dems held a couple trump cards (the Bush II legacy, and the GOP ticket) that made GOP shenanigans futile.

  • Pancake Rankin in NC

    Maybe we need to start paying people to vote like they do in Russia (gas and grocery vouchers). About half American households are in poverty or near the poverty line considering the debt load. My dog comes home because that’s where his dish is. Sound degrading? Well it’s no more degrading than the Oligarch picked candidates, the media barrage of nonsense and the failure to address the most urgent issues. And I continue to suspect most voter fraud occurs systematically by conspiracy and rigged voting machines. Even locally it is impossible to find good biographical histories and associations of candidates, so you never know what’s behind a familiar name. How can the pantomime of ballot casting for unknowns be accepted as democracy? 

    • Hidan

      It’s the same logic for putting camara’s in everyones homes so the police can stop snake thief. What there no widespread problem with people stealing snakes and placing camaras in everyone homes violates there privacy? Well stealing snakes could be a problem so why not fix it so it wouldn’t be in the future?

      Same type of twisted logic with the battle over Voter ID. 

  • Pancake Rankin in NC

    Idea: let’s vote by target shooting. Put up pictures of the contenders, and the one with the most bulls-eyes becomes our next game show host. No crazier than the present system, and it reflects our restive mood.

    • Corythatcher

      Conservatives would win all elections from this day forward.

      • Pancake Rankin in NC

        Stoning could work according to Bob Dylan.

    • notafeminista

      Such civil discourse here at NPR.

  • Lisa

    Are there statistics telling us how many or what percentage of adults (i.e., potential voters) do not have photo ID?

    • Che’ Riviera

      Why?

      • Lisa

        I’m just trying to get a handle on how big a problem the voter ID issue is. It’s hard for me to believe that so many people don’t have identification (I can’t do much of anything without an ID — a library card, a savings account, a grocery discount card). I’m just wondering: if the number of non-ID’d voters is fairly small, couldn’t there be a sort of grassroots effort to get these folks ID’d? During voter registration, for example. Forty years ago, my dad used to go door-to-door registering folks to vote; nowadays, couldn’t someone like him carry some sort of photo-ID device and just print one out? It annoys me that some folks are demanding everyone have a photo ID in order to vote, but, just to get them to shut up, I wonder how difficult the prospect would be of actually doing it.

        • TFRX

          Your dad would have a hard time of it today. States like FL and others have passed vote scrubbing laws that greatly restricts this.

          The prospect of doing this is made difficult. The prospect of doing this correctly was not (say) Gov Scott’s aim in FL.

          It’s a feature, not a bug.

          • Lisa

            States are restricting door-to-door registration? 

          • MrNutso

            In FL, there are restrictions on what organizations can do registration drives and how quickly they must be turned into state officials.

          • TFRX

            Look it up. I won’t do your homework for you.

            States such as FL are restricting third party voter registration efforts which have led to basically zero voter fraud.

        • Che’ Riviera

          I don’t disagree, but these things need to be completed far in advance of an election. 

        • MrNutso

          People most affected by the ID laws do not live and work in the world where they need ID.  They don’t drive, don’t travel abroad, pay with cash, etc.

          If these laws are so important, how come funding was not appropriated to pay people to go door to door and register people using a digital device like you mention.  I think it could be done with an iPad and a card printer.

        • Elizabeth in RI

           The very strict PA law doesn’t allow any of those forms of ID. The law requires a PA DOT issued ID (which means spending a day at a Dept of Motor Vehicle office – something none of enjoy in any state), and original stamped birth certificates. Particularly with older folks from rural areas many births were at home without a birth certificate being issued (rather births were often recorded in a family bible and maybe at the county courthouse – not a stamped certificate). RI’s voter id law provide free IDs, and for this year allows the use of 2 other forms of ID (electric bill, etc.) to prove identification and residency while we work toward getting everyone the correct ID. That should be a model worth looking at – one that endeavors to ensure that everyone who is eligible to vote can vote, and we assure that the voter is who they say they are.

    • MrNutso

      In PA, 9.2% (750,000) registered voters do not have the required ID.  In Philadelphia it’s approximately 18%.  When touting the need for the law, administration officials claimed that less than 1% of registered voters did not have the required ID.

      • Imhenryxvi

        Wow. That’s a crazy big number. (It’s surprising to learn that nearly 20% of Philly folks don’t have a driver’s license.) Okay…so are there demographics that tell us who this 18 percent is? (I’m not challenging you — just using you as a reference librarian.) The poor? Seniors? Convicts? 

        • Pancake Rankin in NC

          Just another danger of pretty good public transportation, I suppose. 

  • MrNutso

    In a hearing that begins today, PA has already stipulated that “… the state says it has never investigated claims of in-person voter fraud and so won’t argue that such fraud has occurred in the past.  As a result, the state says, it has no evidence that the crime has ever been committed.”

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2012/07/25/157327705/pa-wont-use-voter-fraud-argument-at-hearing-over-id-law

    • Vasco DeGrabya

      Well, well, well…

  • notafeminista

    Don’t you still need photo ID to cash a check?

    • MrNutso

      Generally, and for many other things.  Cashing a check is a privilege, voting is a right.

      • notafeminista

        No, actually its not.  Check your constitution.

        • MrNutso

          True, the constitution leaves it to the states to determine qualifications for voting, and amendments and federal prohibit discrimination in qualifications.  We would have to read state constitutions to see what they say.

          On the basis of states determining qualifications, I think we would be better served with voters being required to take a test of what each candidates positions are before they could vote.  While that might result in better elected leaders, it is certainly patently unfair.  We should be able to vote for whomever we want regardless of what we know about the candidates.

    • Che’ Riviera

      The check cashing topic is tomorrow.

      • Pancake Rankin in NC

        You can vote without Driver’s License for a $6 fee?

    • Hidan

      Direct deposit works quite well

      • Guest

        But Federal law requires that you have a valid photo ID such as a driver’s license, state-issued or military ID to open a bank account.  You must also have your social security number and proof of address.

        • Hidan

          So everytime direct deposit happens I must show my valid photo ID?  If I change address does my direct deposit stop? So I go to the bank without by photo ID will the bank turn me down if I tell them my name and SS?

          • notafeminista

            You didn’t answer the question.

          • Hidan

            nadda

          • notafeminista

            Do you not also require photo ID  in order to make withdrawals from said account in to which you are directly depositing?

          • Hidan

            nope

          • Guest

            You must have a photo ID to open a bank account.  If you go to the bank without a photo ID, the bank will turn you down when you try to open an account.

          • DrewInGeorgia

            And a fake ID is impossible to obtain for a strongly motivated criminal, right?

      • notafeminista

        Don’t you need a photo ID to open an account in which to directly deposit?

        • Pancake Rankin in NC

          Ah, but people loose IDs, and DL can be suspended, and they expire.

    • blatt

      Yes, you need an id to cash a check, to open a bank account, etc.  Those requirements are designed to prevent well-documented real fraud and other illegal activities. 

      The difference is that there is no voter impersonation problem threatening the integrity of elections.  But there are real un-American and undemocratic consequences with the resulting voter suppression.

  • http://twitter.com/Astraspider Astraspider

    I’d like to know if these laws have been crafted in one of the bill mills that peddle this kind of pre-fab legislation, like ALEC. That’s the only way I could fathom it’s quick adoption across so many states.

    • Hidan

      Heritage Foundation and none other than Hans von Spakovsky

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=7818019 Matt Wade

    The GOP hates all taxes, except  Poll taxes designed to disenfranchise minorities and the poor. If you can’t sell your ideas, make sure your opponents can’t vote against them!

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    There was a time when people were who they said they were.  These days, we require lots of proof.  I don’t call that progress.

  • Jennifer Linden

    I enjoyed watching the video of the guy posing as Eric Holder in DC and getting a ballot.  He didn’t vote because he didn’t want to commit fraud, but he could have.

    • cambridgeknitter

      James O’Keefe’s videos are always edited for deception. BradBlog.com is one of the go-to places to learn about election integrity, if you’re interested in facts rather than Republican propaganda or other uneducated drivel. See, for example, New James O’Keefe Hoax Video Purports to Detail Fraudulent Cases of ‘Voter Fraud’ in NH ( http://www.bradblog.com/?p=9059 ).

  • TommyP

    Rhode Island’s overwhelming Democratic legislature, I’m ashamed to say, has passed voter ID.

  • Greyman

    Pennsylvania’s General Assembly is majority Republican? Really? in both House and Senate? Really?

    • MrNutso

      Yes.

  • Pjtooher

    actually you do see Dem. lawmakers passing voter ID laws — Rhode Island just did

  • Terry Owen

    I did a paper for a college class last year and while the subject was the passport, I did fnd some research that there is a huge corporate interest in national id – this will be a cash cow for some database companies.  It might be related, behind the scenes.

  • Michael Shapiro

    I can’t believe your guest is pretending not to know the motivation behind these voter ID laws.  The evidence is quite clear.  This is a very dishonest position.  I’m a little tired of letting liars into my home and am turning off the show.  

  • Steve

    Hans says that these new laws would not suppress the vote? Really, how stupid does he think we are? Why else would they be doing it? Because they just live to make the world a fair and just place? Give me a break! I’m so sick of these right wingers acting like we’re all a bunch of stupid children who will swallow their nonsense hook, line, and sinker.

    • DrewInGeorgia

      Unfortunately, for the most part, their assumptions are right.

    • John in Amherst

      We are not ALL a bunch of imbeciles.  But the 40% of the population that gets its news & opinions from the Murdoch media empire, Limbaugh , Beck, etc. are both gullible and obedient where voting is concerned.  Add in a few people who care more about their own finances or judgmental version of morality than the common good, and voila, Obama is in trouble.

      • DrewInGeorgia

        It’s a great recipe for disaster if ever I heard one.

  • MrNutso

    And what’s the reason for the increase in democratic turnout in Indiana?  And is that actual registered democrats or votes for Obama, since IN was somewhat of an upset win for him?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1816544 Dan Trindade

    That this is even an issue is really pretty sickening to me. When there are practically no legitimate instances of voter fraud in the record books how can proponents of Voter ID laws justify the need for them? Not to mention that this all comes up just before a presidential election. I’d like to hear some kind of justification from the proponents as to the timing and actual need for this that does not involve them saying “well every citizen should have an ID anyway”

    • MrNutso

      And if every citizen should have an ID, then governments should get an ID to everyone who wants one.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1816544 Dan Trindade

        Free of charge and mailed to their address.

        • notafeminista

          So who will pay the post office and processing of said IDs?

          Nothing is free.

          • MrNutso

            Everyone.  Everyone should have in interest in making sure that everyone votes, and that everyone who wants to vote can comply with voting requirements.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1816544 Dan Trindade

            Symantics feminista and you know it. Taxes should cover it. Just like roads, EMS, clean air and defense certain things are and should be considered public goods and should be adequately and efficiently funded by our tax dollars. Free and fair elections are just as valuable to our country and democracy and if we are going to spend our money on anything it should be this.

      • notafeminista

        Don’t want to vote?  Don’t get an ID.

  • WaWa

    So if 1% of potential voters don’t have ID, doesn’t that mean that hundreds of thousands of voters would be disenfranchised?  The Heritage guy is talking out of both sides of his mouth. 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

    Voter ID is not just about having an ID – it’s about having your ID accepted at the polls. People can be turned away for as little as the poll officer thinking they don’t look like their photo.  This facet of voter id laws is open to great deal of abuse under the pretence of preventing voter fraud.

  • geezer67

    What about the rigging of the voting machine and its software?  Seems as if the best way to steal an election, that would be the way.  How hard is this to do?  Not a problem.  Ask the CEO of Diebold.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joseph-Rice/100000693874282 Joseph Rice

    Since there is such a fear of voter fraud, as well as of illegal immigration, why isn’t there a bigger call for national, required ID? It would seem hard to argue against it, if you want to require it for voting.
    And while I fully believe it is to suppress democratic voting, I know of elderly who no longer have photo ID, who would likely vote republican.

  • Tom

    So, the debate sounds boils down to voter participation. In essence, either 1) voter turnout decreases, which is bad for democracy or 2) voter turnout does not decrease, which means these laws are a waste of time and money. What about actual evidence of voter fraud. Seems to me, the biggest potential for fraud comes from the computer software used to count votes that comes from the notoriously corrupt Koch Brothers. 

  • DrewInGeorgia

    Why is it that every time I hear mention of altering Voter ID requirements Redistricting immediately comes to mind?

  • blatt

    The argument that these laws are to preserve the election integrity of elections is a smokescreen.  There is virtually no documented problem with individuals illegally voting in person.

    All attempts to manipulate election results occur through absentee voting and voter suppression and there have been no efforts to address those problems.  A recent proposal to make voter suppression efforts illegal was quashed by House Republicans as a free speech issue.

    Republicans in New Hampshire and Pennsylvania have even made statements equating voter id efforts with swaying elections in their favor.

  • Jm8094

    More chicanery from the right – wastes time, wastes $$$.  Another non-issue.  They know they can’t win without suppressing the Democratic vote.  I live in FL, and Gov Wallace Jr. here is doing everything possible to suppress Dem vote. 

    • Guest

      I have never seen a more “anti-American” party than the Republican Party. Period……..Looks to me like the war between the North and South is STILL being fought.

  • Tom Krause, Des Moines

    The ACLU included in its filing a surprising concession from state officials: a written stipulation that the state cannot pinpoint any instance of the kind of voter-impersonation fraud the new law aims to prevent.http://www.philly.com/philly/news/pennsylvania/20120725_The_fight_over_Pennsylvania_s_voter-ID_law_heads_for_court_Wednesday.html 

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

     This sounds like a solution in search of a problem.  All elections have a bit of error–human beings aren’t perfect.  The bigger question is why our elections are so narrowly decided.

  • Sean McCann

    Did Ethan Bronner really raise Tammany Hall as an example of why voter id laws might be legitimate?!  Please, Mr. Bronner and Mr. Goodwin, be serious.  Stop trying to bend yourself into pretzels to defend the indefensible.  This is not a he-said, she-said situation.  As Pennsylvania admits, there is no serious problem of in-person voter fraud.  The motivations for these laws are thus plain and simple–voter suppression.  Pretending otherwise is contributing to the deception of the American public.  As journalists you have a responsibility not to engage in or spread such brazen deceit. 

  • cad80

    I live in Indiana, and the only case of voter fraud I can recall is the case of the Charlie White, the Indiana secretary of state. I think the issue of voter fraud is over blown. I work in computer security, and I am more concerned about someone tampering with electronic voting machines than a handful of people voting more than once. The military has figured out how to prevent multiple votes in democracies we have installed in Iraq and Afghanistan. There, a voter dips his/her fingertip in purple dye. Why not use this approach?

  • DrewInGeorgia

    Wrong place Disqus.

  • DrewInGeorgia

    And of course those statements were based on the factual information he was presented with, right?

    This was supposed to be a reply to Gregg on his quotations of Al Gore, Disqus refuses to put it in it’s proper place.

  • Scott B.

    How are the people that can’t travel to get a photo ID (travel that isn’t free), supposed to be able to travel to get to a lawyer to get the affidavit?  Lawyers don’t come free, either.

  • DrewInGeorgia

    And a good morning to you too Disqus.

  • http://twitter.com/bob_saccamanno Bob Sacamano

    It’s a good idea to modernize elections and have voter IDs. Sure. But it’s a bad idea to treat this as a crisis that has to be done immediately. This is a process to implement over three election cycles – starting in an off-year election. Without strong evidence of widespread fraud one cannot but question the motives of those pressing for this so stridently. Where does real evidence exist of voting problems? Well, that would be voting machines. So what happened to the widespread recognition by experts in computer science and elections that there should be updated voting machines with a paper output to facilitate voter verification and expedite recounts? Current machines demonstrate much too high random error and weak security. That’s where efforts should be paramount.

  • Elihu

    “Voter fraud could swing a close election” – Florida 2000 … close election … thousands of (mostly minority, mostly Democratic) legitimate voters turned away from the polls for a whole range of specious reasons …

    Yup, voter fraud can swing a critical election, all right. But what *kind* of voter fraud?

    • MrNutso

      Perhaps poorly designed ballots resulting in many jewish people voting for Pat Buchannon.

    • Mike Card

      My thought exactly; I’m far more worried about voters being defrauded than I am about voter fraud.  Florida 2000 was a mass disenfranchisement of voters.

  • Kldorfman

    Just a general comment.  Wade Goodwyn is a high quality guest host.  Please have him back!

    • DrewInGeorgia

      Hear Hear!

      Again and again and again and again.
      My vote is for OP to have him back every day.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

    Just watch – thousands of people with valid id will be turned away from the polls this fall. If your polling place doesn’t like the way your id looks, regardless of whether the reason is real or construed, you ain’t votin’. Period.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joseph-Rice/100000693874282 Joseph Rice

      Not if they’re white.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

         I’d be curious if places that have instituted voter id law have had an uptick in new people volunteering to work the polls.

        • TFRX

          But what kind of newly-implemented hoops do people have to jump thru to be genuine, honest poll workers?

          My instinct tells me that’s also been screwed up bhy design in some states.

          • DrewInGeorgia

            My sorry excuse for a State is one of them.

  • Roger

    States have only documented a tiny number of cases of voter “fraud”.  This is a solution to a problem that does not exist.  Many elderly and those without transportation will be disenfranchised.
      There should be far more concern about the integrity of gun ownership than the integrity of voting.  We have huge numbers of of illicit gun sales in this country.  Where is the Republican outrage about that?  I’ll only believe this is not about Democratic voter suppression when every state that has voter ID laws also requires every gun sale in that state (including gun shows and personal sales) to be accompanied by a valid ID and registration of that sale.

  • Anne

    I think this discussion is missing the main point in focusing on Voter ID laws.  What we should be looking at is the spread of the electronic voting devices with their corporate owned proprietary software and lack of verifiabe via paper trails or public review and the chain of custody of these systems before, during, and after our elections.  Voter fraud is MUCH easier to effect when one controls the electronic voting systems which are serviced by private companies without adequate public supervision. 

  • WaWa

    Yikes!  This guy says the number is 10%!  Heritage guy says 1%.   That is a difference between hundreds of thousands and millions of people being disenfranchised.  Please drill down on the assumptions behind these two estimates.

  • Davesix6

    Why does the left, who love regulating everything, have such a problem with attempting to make sure all votes are legal?

    Obvioulsy it is because the Democrats believe they have benifited from voter fraud in the past and wish to continue to do so.

    Anyone who doesn’t believe that there is active voter fraud occuring in this country need look no further than President Obamas home city of Chicago.

    Voter fraud has been a well known reality there for generations!

    • WaWa

       So what does stopping early voting have to do with voter fraud, and why are these conditions being imposed too, if this is not a partisan play?

      • Davesix6

        Don’t believe anyone is talking about stopping early voting.

        • cambridgeknitter

           Well, in fact, that is part of some of these laws, whether or not you choose to believe it.  Early voting is being cut way back, especially the Sunday before election day, which is traditionally a GOTV day in black churches in many of these areas.

          • TFRX

            Yep. FL is one place IIRC. Wouldn’t be surprised if there are others.

            That’s a feature, not a bug.

    • MrNutso

      Being on the left, I’m not against making sure all votes are legal.  I’m against the fact that the laws make no provisions for getting ID’s to people who want them.

      • Davesix6

        The point was made that these people who are supposedly at risk are able to produce a photo ID for occassions where the government requires them elswhere, such as food stamps, welfare, etc.

        The left has not been able to demonstrate above partisan rhetoric that anyone will be harmed.

        • MrNutso

          There are some ID’s such as utility bills that may be accepted for social services that don’t qualify for voting.

    • TFRX

      Because of the half-ass, slipshod nature of all these GOP-passed laws.

      If it scrubbed off middle-aged white men, do you think Fox News and Rush would be so lah-de-dah about it?

    • blatt

       It was not just Chicago, but other old cities like Boston and New York that had political machines to sway elections.  Key word is “had.” You are using 40 – 50 year old history to justify this today.

      There are almost no cases of voter impersonation fraud at polls.  It is too risky, and in almost all elections, it would be for a miniscule gain.

      The proof that these laws are actually a brilliant mechanism for voter suppression is that there has been no effort to address fraud in absentee ballot voting, despite there being well-documented cases.

      As a matter of fact, every example used to justify voter id laws has involved the absentee ballots system, and none of these laws address that.

  • TFRX

    A twenty mile trip over three buses (and, what, an unpaid day off from work)?

    Hey, that citizen just has to want it bad enough, just like all those Columbus voters in 2004 who couldn’t wait several hours.

  • Brad

    Do you have to have a photo ID to purchase a shotgun at a gun show? 

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       Yes, if you’re buying from a licensed dealer.

  • MadMarkTheCodeWarrior

    Welcome to the People’s Republic of the Tea Party.

  • Wendy

    Framing this discussion as a legitimate debate between equally valid points of view is like watching a fight picked by a bully with a smaller kid and analyzing the quality of the blows inflicted without trying to put a stop to it. 

    I am so tired of hearing discussions based solely on what the liberals said, then what the conservatives said.  Please, won’t someone in the Fourth Estate do their job and state the closest to independently verifiable facts that can be found?

    It seems to me that figures such as “.OOO2 % voter fraud” that have been used by opponents of the new voter ID laws can be verified.  If they can, then shouldn’t the debate move on to the deeper issue of WHY NOW and who is behind what is clearly — to even a casual observer — a nationwide Republican-backed trend?

    • Hidan

      Fake “fair and balance” in fear of being called liberal is the problem.

    • Mike Card

      This program sounded, for all the world, like those so-called debates between the evolution side and the intelligent design side of several years ago.  Yes, there were two different points of view:  one was fact-based and the other was based on aspiration.

  • http://twitter.com/Astraspider Astraspider

    Mr. Von Spakovsky just casually dropped the idea that a Pennsylvania Congressman has been convicted of voter fraud. I’m unfamiliar with who that might be, but I’m wondering what kind of fraud it was. Was it being registered at the wrong address? Was it ballot box stuffing? Was it interfering with the elections office? Because there are lots of varieties of voter fraud, but these laws only have one kind in their sights — voter impersonation.

    Impersonation also just happens to be the kind of fraud that carries the most risk and the least reward.

    • MrNutso

      The only case I’m aware of was a state rep. race in Phila. about 20 years ago.  The issue was absentee ballots, which you STILL do not need to show an ID to obtain and vote.  Ultimately the election was thrown out, because the fraud was so obvious.

  • John in Amherst

    For many who need to procure a suitable ID, the up-front fee is just part of the cost.  There are additional costs in terms of travel and time.  A Texas Latino GOP legislator recently made light of how burdensome getting an ID was.  The fee was minimal he said, for voters in his district.  What he neglected to say was that the nearest place to get an ID was more than an hour’s drive away, and even a longer trip if made by public transportation.  For many low income and elderly voters, who lack a copy of a birth certificate, or who never had one, there is an additional hurdle in terms of time, money and know-how.  For elderly voters, making a long bus trip with the necessary connections in the Texas heat is a huge barrier.  Likewise for prospective minimum wage voters who would have to get their employer’s permission and then take at least an unpaid day off work to accomplish the task.  I’d accuse the legislator of “not getting it”, but I’d wager he DOES get it, and is more than happy with the situation.

    The GOP has long billed itself as the “law and order” party.  They certainly are, as long as the laws favor their political order.

  • Suzvt

    Absolutely, Linda is right. Do these republicans really feel this is the best use of their time, when so many things are wrong with our govt.,financial crises, medical system, and social situations. And with almost no voting fraud in our country’s history, they want to try to throw a wrench in the works to impede the efforts of the poor and elderly to cast their vote. Obviously a fair and square election is with one person – one vote is not in their interest.  

  • http://www.facebook.com/john.muccillo John Muccillo

    Please ask Mr. von Spakovsky  to clarify his comment about voter fraud in PA. 

    In Viviette Applewhite’s lawsuit The state signed a stipulation agreement with lawyers for the plaintiffs which acknowledges there “have been no investigations or prosecutions of in-person voter fraud in Pennsylvania; and the parties do not have direct personal knowledge of any such investigations or prosecutions in other states.”
    Additionally, the agreement states Pennsylvania “will not offer any evidence in this action that in-person voter fraud has in fact occurred in Pennsylvania and elsewhere” or even argue “that in person voter fraud is likely to occur in November 2012 in the absense of the Photo ID law.”
    Where does his information about fraud in PA come from.

  • Scott B.

    Zero people committing voter fraud somehow trumps tens of thousands?  That’s the reverse of tyranny of the majority and all based on fear of threat that doesn’t exist.

  • EncourageALL2Vote

    The caller’s suggestion that states should spend resources to get to 100% participation on state and national elections is an excellent one.  It isn’t enough to say they CAN vote as much as it is to encourage and create incentives to vote.  What government official or citizen could effectively talk against this concept.  

    Additionally, with technology, persons should be able to participate from anywhere on election day (or better..election week) with methods to route the vote to the correct precinct.

    • TFRX

      If these GOP govs and leges wanted to do that, they’d have done that.

  • TFRX

    The Heritage guy says “one witness took this long trip” to appear in court, and other cases had no witnesses.

    And each example proves his point?

    Pick. One.

  • Hidan

    Good thing Spakovsky doesn’t sound smug or anything.

  • Brad

    What are republicans doing to get more people to vote? On the other hand, why do conservatives protect and support policies that make it very very easy to get a firearm? 

    • Pancake Rankin in NC

      Bullet box t-shirts at gun shows.
      Sarah Palin can vote for grizzlies at 200 yards.
      Maybe she should vote for Putin since she can see his house.
      There is strong circumstantial evidence Romney may be Batman.

  • Robert

    this guy is so disingenuous. the Republican voter suppression strategy is being openly discussed by Republican leaders as exactly what it is. 

  • WaWa

    “Scoured the state of Texas to find a witness” who could be flown to Washington to testify AND could believably testify that they could not get a voter id card.  Of course that was impossible!

  • NoelTheOne

    Mr von Spakovsky is deliberately conflating _voter fraud_ with _election fraud_.  There is essentially no evidence of voter fraud (a person voting illegally because they are ineligible or under a false name or more than once).  The cases he is citing as an excuse for these restrictions are cases of _election fraud_ (tampering with the process) which is a real hazard, and voter ID laws do nothing to prevent this.

    There is no incentive for individual voters to commit voter fraud, since swinging an election this way is nearly impossible, one vote at a time.  On the contrary, existing penalties for this kind of fraud are quite severe, including large fines and prison time.

    Also, _voter registration_ fraud is *not* voter fraud, and doesn’t lead to voter fraud.  And again, voter ID laws do nothing to stop voter registration fraud.

  • Greyman

    Let’s not neglect to look at Dillon County, South Carolina, either, where the local Democratic Party machine is STILL suppressing voting: the County’s putatively public schools are all managed and overseen only by appointed, unelected school boards. All appointments come at the hands of the County’s three (elected) Democratic state legislators (two state senators and one state representative, himself an employee of one of the County’s school districts). Twice in the past twenty-odd years, voters have called for elected school boards; both referenda have been ignored by the elected legislators and the unelected, appointed school boards. The management of the County’s “public” schools is subject to no accountability and no public oversight as long as all the unelected, appointed school board members are exempt from elective office. (Dillon County is the ONLY County in SC without one single solitary elected school board member.) 

    • MrNutso

      How is this a voter fraud issue?

      • Greyman

        Concern was raised throughout the hour about the suppression of voting, I simply did not want to fail to point out how Democrats handle suppression of voting. (In point of fact, though, I neglected to note that Dillon Co., SC, was the scene of a vote-buying scandal as recently as 1980: the same Democratic Party machine remains in charge, with many of the same party hacks occupying positions they’ve held for years or decades.)  

        • blatt

           What does any of this have to do with voter id laws?  I think you are just looking to insert a rant against Democrats since the voter id discussion is largely negative towards Republicans.  Way to contribute to a discussion of the issues!

          • Greyman

            I’m hardly enamored of Democratic sanctimoniousness on this issue, true, especially when in the case I cite I see a clear example of a Democratic Party welfare plantation thriving this late in the 21st century.

          • blatt

             Then you should fight such fraud, not use it to justify fraud on the other side that you see as somehow balancing things out. 

            I am neither Democrat nor Republican, and have high levels of disgust for both parties and their politicians.

            But this issue is a crystal clear example of voter suppression. Or at least attempted voter suppression: I am not convinced these laws will block many from voting, I am convinced they will do nothing to improve election integrity, nor are intended to.

          • Greyman

            I addressed the state convention of the SC chapter of the League of Women Voters on this matter in April 2010, wrote a handful of op-eds for local consumption, made numerous phone calls to local, state, and Federal officials: nothing changed. NPR itself failed to address the issue when ATC’s Melissa Block interviewed the local superintendent in 2009, following in the footsteps of the Chicago Tribune, Salon, McClatchy, et al. No one from outside the County cares enough about the situation to make an issue of it.

          • Pancake Rankin in NC

            It’s such a poor county I could buy politics there with pocket change.
            Those in charge are kings of a dung heap. Did Obama ever build them a new school building like he promised? The one they had you could count the train cars through the wall.

          • Greyman

            Personally, I was not prepared to equate Democratic Party officialdom with a colony of dung beetles, but I see your point. Yes, Obama has dispatched over $35 million in “stimulus” funds, a sum now being “administered” by the selfsame appointed, unelected officials who were in charge when Obama visited the County back in 2007. (The selfsame appointed, unelected officials, of course, are the same ones who’ve left the execrable 1896 annex standing at least since 1990, when the current generation of Democrats took charge.)

    • Asisis

      Most independent research shows very little fraud occurring.

      Further, there are people who have a hard time locating documentation. For example, older people may not have had birth certificates.
      ID also only proves who you are, not if you are a valid citizen to vote. Therefore, if an ID is insisted on many types should be accepted: state, school and military etc.  No person should be disenfranchised from voting, period.   If this passes as the case, I think this a much bigger crime than “possible” fraud.
      Finally, given our history as a country of voter suppression shame on us. 

  • Jerry Buchheit

    This whole discussion of voter ID laws ignores the absentee voting method.  No restrictions apply for this, so how about proposing that people vote an absentee ballot if they can’t afford to get an ID 

    • Chris

      Right on.  In fact, most voter fraud is committed using absentee ballots and most voter fraud is committed by people in power.  The fact that the laws do not affect absentee voting is more evidence that these laws have nothing to do with voter fraud.  They are about exciting a white, conservative base and confusing others.

    • cambridgeknitter

       Not every state allows absentee voting for all.  In Massachusetts, for example, you may vote absentee only if you state that you will be away from the area for the entire day of the election.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    The problem I see here is that our government wants more and more ability to track us everywhere we go.  We have to have I.D. for too many things.  I want a less-aware government.

  • MrNutso

    How does he know there are no problems?  Does he know for a fact that there is no one who has decided to just not vote because they can’t get the required ID?

  • TFRX

    “Hans you had your chance to talk.”

    Nuf ced.

  • joe

    If Dems live in any of these states which are suppressing our votes, vote by mail.  If you have to go to polling place & don’t have photo id, fill-out a provisional ballot. The R’s are trying to disenfranchise us. 

    • cambridgeknitter

       You know, of course, that very few provisional ballots ever get counted, right?  That’s an inadequate answer to intentional disenfranchisement.

  • AndyF

    “If it quacks like a duck… its a duck!!!”  Why is everyone trying to play this up as some real “issue”???

    The Republicans CANNOT win with Mitt Romney.  The Republicans HATE Mr. Obama because God-forbid a black man might be a good President – Lord help us!  That might lead to more black Americans being President!!!

    So – as has been for many years, the Republicans lie, cheat and steal to get what they want.  Does anyone recall the WMD that never was in Iraq???  Hello???  Did the Republicans get their war???  Sure did…

    So whats this voter ID crud?  Same old same old.  Republicans, so damn self-assured that only they have the answers, feel as though this is some honorable quest to save America.  And save it from what?  The poor, the disenfranchised, and those damn ‘lowlifes’ who have gone broke (largely because the Republicans on Wall Street robbed them…)

    Adolf Hitler used the very same basic idea.  Screw most of society to have a ” better” society.  We all know how that worked out.

    Amazing that they call Mr. Obama a Socialist, when its their own behavior that is vastly similar to Mr. Hitlers.

    • Pancake Rankin in NC

      Mitt Romney is Batman (clue: car elevator).
      Joker may be a euphemism for Socialist?
      He most fears the Riddler (asks tough questions about business). To the Batpolls!

  • BHA in Vermont

    What the heck does politically corrupt Mexico have to do with the USA which has a proven illegal voting history that is not statistically significant?

    • Pancake Rankin in NC

      Druglords there= Banksters here.

  • Michiganjf

    Republicans are the ones who have PROVEN they’ll lie and cheat to win elections, likely because they REALLY CAN’T win on the facts and/or honestly.

    I say BRING ON the election scrutiny!!

    I’m more afraid of Republicans stealing elections than I’m afraid Dems will be disenfranchised from voting.

    Enhanced election scrutiny will likely hurt Republicans more in the long run, as they’re a dwindling party anyway, and enhanced scrutiny may prevent them from STEALING elections in the future.

    WITHOUT A DOUBT, however, idiot Republicans are indeed trying to rig the game in the short term.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Exactly so–a fundamental distrust of government.  A frontier mentality.  That’s part of what makes us great.

  • Scott B.

    The onus of proof that someone can’t vote should be on the states.  If they’re going to require an ID then set a date in, say, 2015 that says something to the effect that a state photo ID will be issued free of charge to anyone turning 18. It wouldn’t be any different than when males have to sign up for the draft.   This could be done at post offices, much like passport IDs. 

    • MrNutso

      When they were talking about the law and PA, I felt that they should have required a new and separate voter only ID that everyone in the state would have to obtain

      • Scott B.

         The Dems, League of Women Voters, et al, should make a concerted effort to find disenfranchised Republican voters that lost records in national disasters, like Katrina, or the tornadoes that devastated many red states, and get them in front of the cameras and committees. Let some Nth generation farmer in Alabama or Illinois make a mad-as-hell speech about not having any IS because his house and the courthouse were blown to the four corners of the earth. 

  • David in Lowell

    This is how an Apartheid government behaves. Those with entrenched power (whose demographics skew rural, southern, white) want to prevent the majority of people in this country from representation. Those who favor restricting representation need to be honest with themselves: they do not believe in democracy. It’s like an election in Iran.

  • Guest

    If voter fraud really existed it would affect all political parties equally and be of no concern.

    Is self-indicting that the Republicans feel that the issue of voter fraud can be focused on one party.

    • Pancake Rankin in NC

      Suppression goes beyond the vote count.
      It is a form of threatened enforcement on the law abiding which makes voting a psychic risk.

  • Craig from Omaha

    Voter surpression  look at the GOP record with suppression and computerized voter fraud in the 2004 election in Ohio while some  rural and suburban precincts (for instance, the “Loaves and Fishes Precinct” that voted at a church recorded more votes than its population.  For Republicans who carp about President Obama, think how much better this country would be now if we were finishing John Kerry’s 2nd term in the White House.  Follow this link for more info about Buckeye State voter suppression in 2004.
    http://globalresearch.ca/articles/SOL411A.html 

  • Davesix6

    Excuse me caller from Nashville. The Jim Crow laws and other laws passed to restrict voter participation, were all passed by the Democrat Party.

    • TFRX

      Hilarious. Anytime you want to discuss the Southern Strategy, we’re here.

      And my Jew lawyer friend wants to know if you’ll stop saying “Democrat party”.

      • DrewInGeorgia

        No he won’t stop saying “Democrat Party”, he’s a Republican’t.

      • Davesix6

        Now why would you mention the fact that your lawyer friend is Jewish?
        Think maybe it’s because your prejudice and bigotry assumes me to be anti-Semitic?

        • TFRX

          So you can say “Jewish lawyer” but can’t figure out the fun in using a noun as an adjective a la “Democrat party”.

          You’re projecting an awful lot, bub.

          • Davesix6

            You didn’t answer my question.

          • TFRX

            Pfft. Not worth the bother.

    • MrNutso

      How many congressmen and senators from the south are now from the DEMOCRATIC party?  See: Southern Strategy.

      • Davesix6

        This so called “Southern Strategy” is political fiction created by the far left who have no argument other than false accusations and lies.
        The most racist cities I have ever personally visited are all on the eastern seaboard.

    • Che’ Riviera

      Don’t you mean the “Democratic” party, Rush?

      • Davesix6

        There is nothing Democratic about the Democrat Party.
        Democrats only truely believe in Democracy when the majority agree with them.
        When the majority does not agree with Democrats, they load the courts with activist judges who over turn laws they disagree with by calling them unconstitutional.

  • DrewInGeorgia

    All voters have a valid Social Security Number right?
    Full Name + Valid SSN + Biometric verification = An End To This Discussion.

    I hate the idea of a Federal Biometric Database but we’ve demonstrated beyond any doubt that Privacy is no longer a primary concern with most of us (myself excluded). It would, however, immediately solve a majority of the problems we currently face including this one.

    • Matt

      I assume you are “all for” having comp. chips sewn under our skin also?

      • DrewInGeorgia

        No RFID is the Devil.

        I’m really big on Privacy but so many of us share our very lives and our every move through Social Media, “smart phone” use, and a general dismissing of atrocities like The Patriot Acts and Military Commissions Acts that I don’t really see how it could do much more harm than we’ve already done to ourselves.

        And like I said, it sure would solve a lot of problems.

        • Matt

          well good luck to you, I’ve never opened a facebook account and don’t have a “wicked smart phone”…

          • DrewInGeorgia

            Me either, we’re quickly becoming a minority though.

        • TFRX

          Smart phone?

          I’m concerned about my privacy, and I’m ready to go back to a spark gap transmitter.

          (I don’t even know if I’m kidding any more.)

          http://www.astrosurf.com/luxorion/Radio/spark-gap-transmitter.jpg

          • DrewInGeorgia

            Wish I could like this multiple times.

          • TFRX

            I figgered someone who knows the difference between “hacker” and “cracker” would know what a spark gap was.

            Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m off to ruin AM radio reception in a two-mile radius.

          • DrewInGeorgia

            You’re my Hero! Give em’ He11 my friend.

          • DrewInGeorgia

            Heeeeeeeey, wait a minute! What makes you think I know the difference between a hacker and a cracker? I thought Crackers were the things you put in soup.

            Move along, nothing to see here…

  • AC

    this has been going on for centuries, no? i thought i read once you used to have to go to vote armed, because ballots were mailed out in advance and opponents would mug eachother on the way to the voting booths….

    also, if a person has no id and commits a crime, how do they get a positive ID before convicting?

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Look into the death of Edgar Allen Poe.  There’s evidence that he was killed by gangs that got people drunk and marched them in to vote.  What you said about being attacked on the way to polls is correct as well.

      • AC

        can you vote drunk? i nevr thought about it before…!!

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

           In days of auld lang syne, yup.

          • Pancake Rankin in NC

            Now your smart phone can vote for you proxy based on your consumption habits and surfing patterns…. I invented that APP.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            1.  I don’t have a smart phone.

            2.  I’d be alarmed if such a dingus could predict how I wish to vote.

  • Nick

    In my opinion, I believe that the Obama Administration will refuse to allow such voter registration manipulations to influence the outcome of the election.  If we currently had a Republican administration, and we were having this discussion, I would believe that they would take internal action against such voter identification manipulations just as I think the White House will do in November.  I believe that the White House has a strong internal influence on the outcome of the election that voters and even those in Congress are unable to see.   

    • DrewInGeorgia

      In the SCOTUS you trust?

  • Davesix6

    Off subject however, the Democrats have been using PAC money and anonymous donations for years.
    They are only angry now that the Republicans are doing it as well.

    • ST

      Mirror opposite of fact. You can make things up but that doesn’t make them true.

      • Pancake Rankin in NC

        Parallel universe.
        Bizarro planet.
        When Romnocon wants your vote (input) he’ll give it to you.
        Once you go “cape” there’s no going back.
        Holy Trustfund, Batman.

  • Suzvt

    The guest is absolutely right. First, come up with a system that insures everyone a vote that doesn’t put hurdles in their path that are often insurmountable, but still insures there will be no voting fraud. Then, when you have it all worked out in a fair and easy way for ALL citizens, you can implement the new system. The republicans are ready to jump on this before working out the kinks, but as far as fair healthcare reform goes, they want to work out every single detail beyond reasonable before they’ll begin to even consider it. 

    • miro

      You are giving the Republicans way too much credit. They know exactly what they are doing. They really don’t want every eligible voter to vote, and they could care less if every American could obtain health care. Their opposition to health care reform is not a matter of getting some details right. Their clients are the ultra-rich, and they will do whatever they can to please that class and maintain their power.

      Modern Republicans are the spiritual descendants of the Confederacy, and their voter ID laws are a latter day attempt to reinstate poll taxes.They are evil at the core. 

      • DrewInGeorgia

        That recent SCOTUS decision on the ACA has them worried. A repeat of 2000 is looking less likely in their eyes. Good.

        • notafeminista

          Actually, I’m thinking it won’t be close at all.  There will be no question.

  • http://twitter.com/Astraspider Astraspider

    Mr. von Sparkovsky is ignoring anonymous donations to 501c(4) groups, of which Karl Rove is taking great advantage for CrossRoads GPS. Mr. von Sparkovsky please stop being such an embarrassing hack.

  • Scott B.

    The illegals the Republicans are worried about voting are smart enough to stay under the radar so they won’t be deported, aren’t they smart enough to stay out of the voting booth?

  • Matt

    The dems fight for unregistered voters the way rep. fight for gun rights

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       So how do you characterize me, since I want freedom in both?

    • ST

      I’m a Democrat and fight for gun rights. The true issue is one group is fighting for what is right, the other group is fighting to win.

    • miro

      If state legislatures tried to enact gun licensing and registration laws that require the same effort on the part of registrants as some of these voter ID laws, the NRA would be all over them in a second. 

      Conservative mouthpieces would be yelling about the loss of Second Amendment rights.

      It’s crazy that in some parts of our country it is easier  to obtain assault weapons and obscene amounts of ammunition than it is to register to vote.

      Maybe gun purchasers should prove they are US citizens in order to buy a lethal weapon.

  • BHA in Vermont

    SUPER PACS, not PACS. Anyone or any company can anonymously give to a Super PAC. They have no problem targeting their ads in such a way that the viewer is channeled to vote for a specific candidate.

  • BS

    If defensible data and information can be presented that clearly support the need for the types of statues only enacted in, admittedly, Republican-controlled states, then I find it difficult to argue against such laws.  Show me the data.

    • Che’ Riviera

      YES!!!  The elephant in the room!

    • Mike Card

      Good idea:  More Republican statues and fewer Republican statutes!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

    The issue has not been brought up – what happens if the polling officer decides, for whatever reason, they don’t like your id?

    • TFRX

      If it were only polling officers.

      Plenty of “concerned citizens groups” have taken on the cause of stopping people at the voting booth.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

        That’s a good point – I wonder if any precinct vote returns will get challenged by accusations polling officers didn’t check id properly.

        • TFRX

          I hadn’t worried about that.

          Of course, I’m white, Northern, and suburban enough that nobody with mirrored sunglasses wearing an official-looking uniform ever stood with his arms crossed, in front of me, at my local firehouse, and asked “Just where do you think you’re going?”

      • Davesix6

        When you say “concerned citizens groups” are you referring to the New Black Panther Party” led by Minister King Samir Shabazz,  and their video documented voter intimidation in Philadelphia back in 2008?
        You know the case that the Obama Justice Department refused to pursue.

  • TFRX

    And the other shoe drops. The last-gasp canard is heard from Hans, who said he couldn’t get into the studio without a govt ID.

    Maybe a pickpocketer will take care of this problem the morning that von Spakovsky is invited on next time.

    Please stop asking Hans von Spakovsky what he thinks. Don’t invite him back.

  • DrewInGeorgia

    Thank you so much for a very lively discussion our host says.
    Now that’s self-control personified right there.

    You continue to impress Mr. Goodwyn, please don’t leave us.

  • Dr. Steve

    If everyone wants to be serious about prevention of voter fraud, the problem could be solved relatively easily at the time of voter registration at which time it can be established whether the voter applicant has a valid photo ID that would suffice, e.g. driver’s license.  If they do not have such an ID, the registration location should have the capacity to produce a valid photo ID for the purposes of voting.  It’s potential uses for other purposes would have to be restricted.  The photo ID for voting should be completely free of charge.  That would solve the problem at the place it should be solved; at the voter registration process.

    • ST

      I live in a small town. You expect my town to purchase photo ID equipment and also start paying someone to handle photo ID’s and find the money to pay for it without charging the customer? I can tell you right now, it’s not going to happen in my town.

      The whole idea needs to be thown out.

      • TFRX

        At some point, you’re both right.

        And at the same point, it’s an illustration of how the top-down “solutions” to this “problem” are bunk.

        Nobody’s brought up the funding to do any of this properly, which leads me to think it hasn’t been addressed in any of these laws.

        The result? Towns like yours won’t do everything possible, due to real world budget constraints, fewer people will be able to vote. (Hans von Spakovsky’s grandma doesn’t live in your town, I guess.)

        And (as I always say) that’s a feature of the legislation, not a bug.

  • ST

    A little old man cannot vote if he has no photo ID yet a rich individual can donate to a super pac, huge sums of money to swing the election in his favor and his name will not be needed or made public. The Republicans are playing the role of super villian.

    How anyone can vote Republican with a clear conscience is beyond me.

    • Kairos

      Republicans have worked very hard to destroy our republic for an oligarcy.  And the stupid republican voters think that by letting the moneychangers do whatever they want, we will have freedom.  Stay in school, republicans. 

      • DrewInGeorgia

        And please avoid any major related to Finance or Economics.

        • Kairos

          Economics is a good major, but business majors (who have to take just a few economic classes), as I remember them, were mostly fraternity girls and sorority boys who generally cared more about partying than academics. 

          • DrewInGeorgia

            My intention (and hope) was only that those who have been working so hard “to destroy our Republic” as you so aptly put it would avoid any higher education that would further accelerate the problem.

            Maybe some Basket Weaving would do them (and the rest of us) some good.

  • Vcieri

    Mr. Ashbrook, I’ve heard several segments on voter fraud over the last few months. Please do a segment on why/why not state governments to allow citizens to get photo ids the same day the vote in the same location. Politicos like to write legislation for every problem when the problem can be solved in other ways. I would like to hear the pros and cons of solving this citizen services issue. Thanks for a great show.

    • Che’ Riviera

      You are correct.  There are reasonable ways to do this if we must, but conservatives aren’t interested in any of them other than “Shuddup and get a frickin’ ID”.

    • DrewInGeorgia

      Ummmmmm, Mr. Ashbrook isn’t here.

  • Leah

    Yes, it is important for voters to be properly identified.  What is disingenuous about the current  push to for voter registration is the timing.  The gentleman from Pennsylvania hit the nail on the head when he said that voter registration will allow Romney to take the state.  That is the real reason for the sudden interest in “voter fraud.” 

  • Carrossi30

    I  would like to scream! To vote here is a joke. No one ask an ID that it should be a requirement, period. I have to listen the most demagogic reasons for not showing an ID. We are in 21st century, if people are so lazy, retarded and so on to get an ID, so they don’t deserve to vote. 

    • Che’ Riviera

      “I don’t care what your reasons are, just do what I tell you” doesn’t really rise to the level of an arguement unless you are my Mom or Dad.

      Are you my Daddy?

    • DrewInGeorgia

      “We are in 21st century, if people are so lazy, retarded and so on to get an ID, so they don’t deserve to vote.”

      Wow.

  • Bill G

    A tainted DOJ trying to thwart states’ legitimate interest in ensuring that everyone who votes has a right to vote is outrageous. The Heritage fellow had it all over the Times “reporter”, who is obviously pleading a weak case with an agenda. To say that Democrats don’t use PAC money is to deny the influence of union leadership in pushing money to Democrats regardless of where members might want their contributions to go. 

  • Ryan_hennings

    Why is this even a debate?  Get a freakin’ ID.

    • MrNutso

      If you’ve seen my drivers license photo you’ll see I have a freakin’ ID.

    • Che’ Riviera

      That doesn’t even rise to the level of a thoughtless one-liner.

    • Guest

      I find it incredulous that there are hordes of people who don’t have an ID and want to vote.  If these people exist, it likely means they– don’t have a social security number– have never worked since you must have a SSN to get a job– have never filed a tax return — have never received any form of federal education assistance– have never received any form of government benefit– have never been married– have never registered to vote– have never purchased alcohol, had a bank account, cashed a check, had public utility service, and on and on.
       

      Wouldn’t the efforts of the League of Women Voters, NAACP, Acorn, etc., be well spent getting these people an ID to make their lives easier and better?  They could register them to vote at the same time.

      • TFRX

        You don’t know about vote scrubbing laws aimed at keeping the LOWV, etc, from doing that, do you?

        • Guest

          For over a decade I volunteered at the Salvation Army.  Besides all of the services that everyone knows about (soup kitchen, clothing, homeless shelter, medical clinic, substance abuse treatment), guess what service the clients rated as very important:  the Salvation Army provided them with an ID, a lockable mailbox, and an address.  For me and many other volunteers, it was difficult to imagine the hardships these clients encountered when an ID was required and they didn’t have one.  It would really be an excellent and valuable benefit if other organizations added getting people an ID to the services they provide.

          • TFRX

            That leads to today’s study question: Why have so many right-wing governors signed so many laws making things like that so difficult by the LoWV, Sally Army and such?

  • http://www.facebook.com/stewsburntmonkey David Stewart

    In defending Texas disallowing student IDs Mr. von Spakovsky said this was because non-citizens can get student IDs in Texas.  Why does that matter?  The point of the ID is not that it allows you to vote by itself, but that it proves your identity.  A non-citizen still couldn’t vote because they couldn’t legally register to vote.  Whether the have a valid ID or not doesn’t make any difference in this case.

  • John Cane

     The GOP is scared stiff of the demographic shift in the USA
    because it has nothing to offer new immigrants, people of color, the 99% in
    general.  So, here’s my suggestion
    for a strategy to step the GOP campaign of voter suppressio. Use the First and
    Fourteenth Amendments. The right to vote should be seen as the ultimate
    First Amendment right and, coupled with the “equal protection of the
    laws” clause of the Fourteenth, should be leveraged to declare all these
    obstructionist voter registration laws unconstitutional. 

     

    So, find some “Rosa Parks” in Pennsylvania or other voter
    suppressing state who has been thrown off a voter check list or denied access
    to one because she have failed to meet the obstructionist standards imposed by a
    GOP dominated legislature.  Have
    her sue in Federal Court on the basis that voting is a First Amendment right
    (really the ultimate act of free expression) and that GOP obstructionist laws
    deny them “equal protection” guaranteed by the Fourteenth.   In
    determining a  constitutional national
    standard for voting regulations
    governing elections for Federal offices a Federal judge should use those
    based on the election laws adopted in the states (read the Blue ones) that have
    the least restrictive, most inclusive regulations. The lowest hurdle to voter
    participation  should become the
    national standard.  Let’s have a
    race to the top for voter participation instead of a race to the bottom!

    • Gregg

      Let’s judge everyone by the color of their skin. Terrific.

  • Kairos

    When republicans believe that the “DEM” on a voter registration card means “socialist, communist-”-of course this is about preventing democrats from voting.

    These measures will prevent more legitimate people from voting than illegitimate people.  And that is wrong. 

    The paranoid right wing is worried about the “slippery road to socialism” and the overthrow of the American government without using the word “democracy” or “republic,” which ought to tell you something.

    • Gregg

       Just show an ID, that’s all.

      • Che’ Riviera

        Doesn’t really address his point, Greg of many G’s. 

        • Denis

          I like that – Gregg of many G’s.  Well done!

          • Gregg

            It’s not as good as Modavation’s “General G liberator of the great middle states” but it does have a ring to it.

        • Gregg

          I don’t accept his premise.

          • Kairos

            I don’t like being demonized as a socialist, communist.  Tell the right wing to change their language, and I’ll change my premise.

          • Gregg

            No need to bargain your beliefs away. You’re welcome to your premise.

          • Kairos

            Language shapes the way we see the world–we translate the world through language.  When people speak in certain ways, they are revealing they way they see the world. 

            This is why politicians choose their words very carefully, use metaphors, metonymic shifts because they are trying to create a certain reality where their political vision is righteous.

            That’s why I wrote what I wrote.  Republicans use a language that suggest democrats aren’t real Americans, that we are communist, or socialists.  The for us or against us narrative is giving republicans an ethic to suppress the vote. 

            This is probably why you are willing to prevent a lot of legitimate voters from voting to prevent a few cases of illegitamate voters. 

            Can you at least, at the top, write a paragraph or two on what are democracy and oligarcy?  Is it democracy to pay to vote?  Is it democracy for a few dozen rich guys to pay for the majority of advertizing for which ever politician they like?   Why can’t you see what is happening?  Have you ever read about societies that have lost and won their democracy?
             

          • DrewInGeorgia

            Please also add “Is a Democratic Republic a Democracy?” to that list of questions.

            Thanks for your consideration.

      • Ray in VT

        and if my elderly father, who’s been voting since Eisenhower, doesn’t have one that just means that he can’t continue to vote as he has for the past 60 years?

        • Gregg

          Exactly. He can easily obtain an ID, it’s his choice.

          • Ray in VT

            As you are fond of saying, that’s sick.  So my 82 year old father, who is largely home bound, should just up and make the choice to travel a couple of hours to get such an ID, at a time when a 10 minute trip to the store in town is a big day out, so that he may continue to exercise his rights or be denied his right to vote. 

            It must be a terrible thing to labor for decades to feed one’s family and the people of this country and get shafted in one’s later years.

          • Gregg

            You’re just getting all emotional with your example.    They could do it online. 

            The thesis posited in the articles on the top of the page was the proposed voter ID laws are racist. The Times article got out the violins and told the heartbreaking story of a poor woman whose purse (with ID) was stolen. It’s an emotional smokescreen. Kairos was saying it was a delusional communist plot… or something. I just think those are the racist and paranoid views. I believe requiring ID is needed and prudent. We can work out the bugs. If you want to make the case that it’s not a good idea weighed against the need then that’s one thing but I totally reject the notion that it’s about anything but legitimizing our elections. It’s certainly not racism or ageism or any other “ism”. And it’s a baby step.

          • Ray in VT

            Of course I’m getting emotional about this.  That’s because it’s gotten personal with members of my immediate family.  It is easy to hold something at arms length as long as it’s not screwing over someone that one cares about, but it is difficult for people to be objective when something starts to negatively affect them or their loved ones.

            I wouldn’t go so far as to say that the proposed laws are racist, however when it appears that they are more likely to impact members of a certain ethnic group, perhaps more due to economics rather than outright skin color, then people are going to start yelling and playing the race card, and can you blame minorities in the South if they do when the party pushing these measures took in the old segregationists just a generation or two ago.

            I think that we can do something about this issue, although I don’t see the evidence that it is a widespread problem.  However, as I said, I think that we can do something about this, but I think that it should be on the state and local governments to be proactive in terms of getting out there and making sure that people who have been legally able to vote in elections for decades are not unduly burdened for wanting to continue to exercise this most previous right.

            I’ll be totally up front with you on this, Gregg, I just don’t trust the GOP and the Tea Party.  I would have more faith in this process if there were more Democrats and liberals on board with these measures, but, like so many issues that we face in this country, the parties aren’t likely to work together and are mistrustful of each other’s motives.

          • DrewInGeorgia

            Economic disparity is the new racism.

      • Kairos

        The best supreme court America ever had was the Warren Court. (Look at the records.)  Anyway, the Warren Court’s motto was: “Better to let ten guilty people free than to convict one innocent person.”  What this new law does is attack a problem that exists within the .001 percentage of the American population–to which to solve that problem, republicans are willing to prevent a much greater share of Americans from voting.  That is the true fraud!  And that is anti-democracy. 

        In a lot of states, to get a ID takes a SS card and a Birth Certificate–I know the Birth Certificate cost around $60, the SS card is usually free, and the drivers’ ID cost around $60–that is potentually a $120ish bill just to vote.  People in poverty are less likely to have those forms of IDs and are less likely to afford them. 

        Face it: we live in an backwards country where a few rich guys can decide which politicians get the most advertising money, while 20% of the population can barely afford to vote.  Why should anybody have to pay money to vote?

        • Gregg

          I do not think it’s possible to say how many votes are cast illegally in the name of others. The data does not exist. The “.001 percentage” is more aptly applied to those legal voters who don’t have an ID to begin with.

          • Kairos

            When does absence of evidence equal evidence?

            You are assuming that something exists without evidence, yet at the same time there is a lot of evidence to believe that these new voter laws will keep a lot of poor people from voting.   You are evading reason and reality again.  If you think that 99% of the U.S. population has an government ID, you need to get out of the house. 

            How can you not see that this law will prevent more legitmate voters than illegitamet voters from voting? 

            Gregg, you don’t have to be for this law because democrats are against it.  You can think rationally like a lot of republicans who still hold democracy before party.  This is obviously a bad law, and you know that nobody should have to pay even one penny to vote.  

          • Gregg

            I’m not a Republican and could not care less about ideology. How can you not see the problems with voter fraud. We have a difference of opinion but you guys always want to make it personal. Feel free, just pointing out the nastiness and where it comes from. 

            There’s bookoos of evidence. Heck there are active ACORN trials going on in most states. Indictments galore. Someone voted using Eric Holder’s ballot (or it was give to him) And on and on ad naseum.

          • Kairos

            If you are not a republican, then a bear doesn’t deficate in the woods.

            We once had a conversation about case study and quantitative data–you like to straw man and ignore quantitative data.  The quantitative data doesn’t suggest that voter fraud is a problem, yet preventing legitimate voters from voting for the sake of a few case studies is the right thing to do according to you.  You always turn to straw man when you’ve lost an argument.  Sorry about being personal, but you know that people should not have to pay one penny to vote, and you refuse to acknowledge that, turning a blind eye to democracy for the promotion of your political leanings.

          • Guest

            Fine, then give Photo IDs FREE to all who can prove they cannot afford to pay but require Photo IDs to vote. I’m a Democrat!!

          • Kairos

            If free government IDs can be had, then there shouldn’t be an issue.  But you should be against these laws until that happens.

          • Denis

            Gregg, once again get away from Beck, Limbaugh and Fox News…. Where is the documented Bookoos of evidence.  Specifically where are the ACORN rials going on and what are they about?  When was Holder’s ballot given to someone else?

          • Gregg

            Seriously? The ACORN thing was big around 2008. How’d you miss it?

            http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-complete-guide-to-acorn-voter-fraud/

            http://www.rottenacorn.com/activityMap.html

            Holder’s ballot.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM1F92uPHG0

            BTW, who has fed more homeless than Beck?

          • TFRX

            Just another knave who thinks the shitstorm over ACORN was about a real threat to democracy.

            Keep linking to Pajamas media.

          • cambridgeknitter

            How’d you miss the fact that it was all a hoax?  Those videos were edited to deceive, and the so-called “liberal” media can’t stop repeating the rightwing lies.  No one tried to vote using those fake names, and, unlike Republican organizations like Sproul, ACORN followed the law and turned in all of the registration cards it collected, after verifying the information on them and notifying  the election officials about the ones that didn’t seem kosher.  Spend some time at http://www.bradblog.com and educate yourself.

  • Joan

    People will never accept Mitt Romney as President…
    No court order will make him acceptable either….The GOP should be charged with federal election laws fraud by denying the vote of minorities in the 2012election. 

    • JGC

      Just like the way some voters could not accept George W. Bush and some cannot accept Barack Obama…

      • Bigleyjoshua

         Most people couldn’t accept GB–in the world by the way–because he is a cruel fascist who murders people and starts crazy nazi wars, and tortures people for fun in his basement.

        The world loves, likes, or tolerates OBama.  Some Americans hate him because he is black.

        HMMM.  Nazi dictator without an education who cant spell or read nor find new york city on a map, that murders babies rampaging armies–incinerating flesh, cancelling all your bill of rights–accept one–the falsely interpreted 2nd amendment–fascist kkk white guy who would sooner put six bullets in your head with his trusty six-shooter than let you vote.

        or…

        smart black guy–(smart man…period), a professor, a democracy activist and community organizer. 

        HMM..no, no, i really don’t think its the same thing, but nice try on thinking, better luck next time.  better go see the wonderful wizard of OZ–doo-doo-dooo–OH mY!

    • Kairos

      If they bent over for Bush, they will bend over for anyone.

    • Davesix6

      What fraud? The 2012 election hasn’t even happened yet. What are you talking about?
      If the majority of legal voters choose Mitt Romney then that means the majority of “people” will have accepted him.

      • Zing

         See?  The liberal brain at work.

  • Denis

    Isn’t it interesting that places like the Heritage Foundation constantly refers negatively to the Obama Administration and federal justices if they refer to anything European – yet your Heritage guest wants to refer to the “rest of the world’s” voting laws as a standard we should look to?

    • Zing

       no

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/MKYVSA5DN6XM57MZV52JCM6B54 Alsand Pine

    i am as far from being a republican as anyone i know but i fail to see the reason for this argument. everyone should be happy to ensure the integrity of the election. what is the point of having a law limiting voting to citizens without having a way to enforce it? instead of wasting time to fight against doing the right thing, we must work to ensure that all the people who have difficulty obtaining ID will be able to do so. we have a lot of non-citizens in this country and we should have a way to make sure people vote that can. the argument that there is no proof that there is a major problem in this area is as moot as the argument that there was not proof that tobacco caused cancer. this is a fundamentally valid need. we just have to make sure other garbage is not attached to this law. the best way to deal with it is to have a federal law and have ways to get IDs to those who are disabled, old, low income, etc. so that we are not limiting votes. God knows we don’t want to lower participation. 

    • JK in WI

      Citizens have to register to vote. This is a means to ensure the integrity of the election.  A voter ID is not necessary.

      The idea of people having to present a photo ID doesn’t bother me so much as the fact that it’s a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist. State governments and now federal courts are wasting an awful lot of time and taxpayer money trying to prevent a nearly non-existent fraud problem. These resources should be applied to more significant issues.
      The one instance in which I’d support a voter ID card is if you needed to pass a citizenship test to obtain one. I recently read that only a third of Americans can name all three branches of government. If people don’t know grade school civics, how could they possibly understand complex issues like the root causes of the economic crisis, which economic theory is more likely to be successful in dealing the weak economy, the pros and cons of the affordable care act, and a plethora of others. As far as I’m concerned, the quantity of voters is not a problem. it’s the quality of them. 

    • Lindyo

      Alsand – The Republicans will not lift one finger to ensure legal voters have photo ID’s that’s the problem.  They say they want photo ID’s but have no plans ( and never did) to implement a solution leaving it up to the Democrats it’s kind of like cooking dinner and then leaving the dishes for someone else.

  • A Rose

    Great program. For once On Point has presented a balanced program. It was refreshing to hear both sides of the issue as opposed to the usual liberal slanted programs presented by Tom Ashbrooke. Perhaps Wade can take over PERMANENTLY for the love to hear the sound of my voice, interrupting, and the never-ending insidious question ranting Tom.

    • DrewInGeorgia

      “Perhaps Wade can take over PERMANENTLY for the love to hear the sound of my voice, interrupting, and the never-ending insidious question ranting Tom.” would have been sufficient without the inclusion of your first three sentences.

      Just my opinion…

      • Bigleyjoshua

         Tom isnt that bad–you guys are way too harsh–i actually enjoy most of his comments tho i have wished time to time that he would not say anything abut more often than not–Tom is asking appropriate questions–perhaps not in depth enough, not aggressive and challenging enough–he lets a lto republican propaganda slide when it is clearly the most ridiculous absurdit ever spoken by man–but that is republican and fascist to behave this way–Tome would lose his job if he challenged these fascists. 

        Overall–I enjoy TOm on this show and if they changed the host I would be skeptical and if it was Texas I would never listen again.  Why is a TEaxas accent considered acceptable to the mainstream, but not say Boston accent or New York or NEw England–its always this mid-west hackneyed hoakie sound that is supposed to represent america.

        NPR soudl be–should be LEft–afterll all-_ALL the corporate networks are right-wing propaganda!

        To not challenge republic-fasicst ideas more aggressively on NPR is simply cowardly, unfair, and unjust.

        • DrewInGeorgia

          I also found A Rose’s comment harsh but there have been several times when Tom has demonstrated bias that I swear would have contradicted his fundamental efforts to stay on an even keel in the past. I’m not going to say whether I felt he leaned more to the right or the left because it doesn’t matter. What does matter is that I feel the host of the show should try to remain balanced and call out BS when appropriate. In my opinion Wade has managed to do a better job than has Tom as of late, that’s just my opinion though. As for the accent, who cares? I don’t. I care less about how something is said than what is actually said.

          Your last statement is right on the money.

    • Kairos

      Reality isn’t fair nor balanced.  A good journalist if looking for reality objectively, and if asking reasonable but hard questions is considered slanted, perhaps you don’t want to know what reality looks like. 

      He ask questions.  He doesn’t say: “Barack Obama…a puppy eating Muslim from Kenya, or a European social Marxist…you decide.”

      • DrewInGeorgia

        I lol’d at that last statement. Nice.

      • A Rose

        I’ve yet to hear a negative thing said about Obama or the Democrats by Tom or any other NPR commentator. I guess that’s your reality. And if you don’t hear a mocking tone and innuendo when they discuss Romney or the Republicans, you’re not listening carefully. NPR, just be fair with both sides when you infrequently present an opposing view.

        • Kairos

          Really, I heard that Obama decided to kill an American Citizen without due process in a cafe in Yemen killing 12 innocent people with him. 

          That is pretty hard criticism.  Much harder than saying, “where are the jobs Mr. President” while ignoring the fact that republicans blocked his jobs bill.  Perhaps, I can show you much harder criticism with harder evidence on Obama from liberals than republicans. 

          Sorry, but Romney needs to take a position on immigration, he needs to show his tax returns (like republicans use to say during the primaries).   And he should be treated harshly until he answers questions.  That is journalism 101.  But now we have a propaganda arm that says, “fair and balance” to dilute an empirical reality.  These journalists aren’t debating politicians, they are asking them questions that they don’t want to answer.  Romney said that the president has been weak with Iran.  But what would be Romney’s position?  What would be considered strong?  But Romney doesn’t answer. 

          • DrewInGeorgia

            Romney does answer but only to those he already knows want to hear what he has to say.

            Take a gander at Mr. Romney’s guest list for impending travels abroad that are supposed to demonstrate his Statesmanship and competence for International relations (if you haven’t already). It’s like the Who’s Who list of some of the biggest contributors to financial fraud on The Planet.

          • Bigleyjoshua

             assassinating people and killing civilians doesnt seem like criticism to republicans because they support tyranny and murder abroad–always

        • Bigleyjoshua

           but they never said anything about bush either–not until after his illegal criminal presidency…

          • Bigleyjoshua

             however, i would disagree–tom criticizes obama often enough and fairly but maybe not enough–clue:: dems and repubs are not the only candidates–if any of our journalists were good journalists they would take up the torch of representing ALL candidates–third party.  And often. 

  • Traveller

    Where is the evidence that we have had extensive voter fraud?  These bills are intended to limit voters to those with means, not prevent fraud.

    • Lindyo

      Totally agree!!!

    • Jennifer Linden

      How much voter fraud are you willing to tolerate?

      • JK in WI

        No voter fraud is “tolerable”. But there are currently hundreds, if not thousands of issues of greater importance than voter fraud. It’s only near the top of legislative agendas because Republican legislatures have put it there.  

        When we run out of issues that are more urgent / important than voter fraud, then we can deal with it. 

        • DrewInGeorgia

          Right on. They’re soooooo concerned about fraud at the individual voter level but there’s never any mention of Registration Fraud, Absentee Ballot Fraud, Tally Fraud, etc..

          Nice comment.

          • notafeminista

            How come you are willing to believe there is fraud rampant within the voting system except at the individual level?

            Oh right.  Because sometimes your guys lose.

          • DrewInGeorgia

            I’d love to come out and play but I can’t. Momma says you and your friends never play nice and that it sometimes causes me to lose my temper so I’ve been grounded.

            Have a nice life.

          • cambridgeknitter

            Well, let’s start with the fact that there have been actual cases of machines that don’t count the votes correctly and pollworkers changing people’s votes.  Also, what’s easier if you want to game an election, finding people to impersonate other people who won’t have already shown up to vote and who won’t be known to any of the pollworkers, one vote at a time, or changing the results at the central office?  Wholesale versus retail.  Read up at http://www.bradblog.com .

        • Still Here

          Every fraudulent vote cancels a legitimate one.  It’s a core threat to democracy.  Only someone who thinks they’re benefiting from the fraud would be against trying to end it.

  • JGC

    Now is the time to become familiar with your state voting laws and where you will be voting.  Vote early, if possible.  Do not wait until mid-October to start sorting this out.

  • Jay Hayes

    Show is liberal garbage! yesterday’s gun control was so unreal, could have been written by Ann Ryn! Guest host need to learn some simple etiquette!Show will npo longer be heard over my radio! Enloy yourself

    • Lindyo

      Good!  One less wing nut listening.

      • notafeminista

        Right…opposing points of view are scary and bad.

  • Lindyo

    It is absolutely an attempt by the Republicans to supress voters. The GOP knows many CITIZENS don’t have access to photo IDS so they’re counting on that as a way to cheat themselves into the white house.  The good thing is many older people vote Republican and have long since given up thier Licenses and vehicles. 

    • harverd

       I quote:

      If you lack an ID too bad. Go buy one. They are inexpensive and all
      responsible people have one. If you are not responsible enough to carry
      an ID then you are not allowed to vote. Only responsible people should
      be able to vote. I don’t want to hear the argument that poor people will
      be unfairly affected. They have enough money to eat out, buy North Face
      jackets, expensives sneakers and clothes, fancy cars, drugs, alcohol,
      and lottery. Let them not buy cigarettes for a week and go buy an ID.

  • GeorgeG64

    I keep hearing the Republicans saying they want to have more people voting and that voting was up in the last two elections…..then why would they shorten early voting.  Making voting easier brings more voters to the polls.  

    • Ray in VT

      I heard the former GOP state party chair argue against early voting on the premise of “well, what if people change their minds”.

      • notafeminista

        Well I heard “anec is not a sufficient prefix for data.”

        • TFRX

          *yawn*

          “You know nothing of my work.” -McLuhan.

          Stop using it as if you have any idea what it means.

        • Ray in VT

          I’ve never heard that.

    • Gregg

      I never vote early and think it should all be done in a day like it used to be. I thought it was a Constitutional requirement but I must be wrong. 

      • GeorgeG64

         Gregg…..do you know why voting is done on a Tuesday in November?  During the time the Constitution was written most people voters had to be property owners (mostly farmers) so the harvest would be finished.  They usually lived a long horse ride from their county seat where voting took place.  So, they were given a day to get there and they didn’t want them traveling on Sunday.  Therefore, the “constitutionally” reason for our voting system is to make it easier for a man (not woman), who owned property (including slaves), to ride his horse (not drive his car) for a day (not 30 minutes), to a county seat (not the school around the block), so he wouldn’t miss Church on Sunday (but not temple on Saturday or Mosque on Friday, or….well, you get the idea.

        Don’t you just love “strict originalsts”?

        • notafeminista

          I love big leaps even better.

          Most county seats are no more than a day’s ride from anywhere in the county.  That was the point.  They were a(comparatively) easy travel.

        • Gregg

          I’ve always liked the idea of restricting voting to those who own land.

          • Ray in VT

            Now there’s an outdated position, and one which I am guessing that you did not hold when you didn’t own land.  It would sure make it easy to keep the poor in their place by just making wealth a qualification to vote.  We could always keep the ladies and the illiterate away too.

          • Gregg

            No, let the ladies vote. The illiterate need to read the ballot. When I started paying taxes I started becoming politically active. When I bought land I became more active in my community. I think having skin in the game promotes more responsible decisions. It’s a real problem when a majority elects an agenda that rewards themselves at the expense of others. “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb taking a vote on what to have for dinner”.

            It’ll never happen and I’m not advocating it. I just like the notion. BTW, I and 5 friends bought 2 lots on a mountain in ’86. It was owner financed and our payment was $60/month ($10 a piece). We made our living playing in a band. We were dirt poor. I was homeless at the time. I bought more land in ’90 (20 acres). I struggled mightily to pay for it. I lived in a shack, was skinny, I didn’t have children and I drove junk cars. It was about decisions and sacrifice not wealth.

          • Ray in VT

            I don’t think that the illiterate necessarily need to be able to read to vote (leaving aside the whole issue that literacy tests were merely used as a device to keep minorities from voting).  We have accommodations for the physically disabled who cannot get into the Town Hall as well as for the visually impaired.  At least the former here requires that multiple poll workers hand deliver a ballot to the person and then return it to the voting box.  My former plow guy is illiterate, so I should ask him if or how he has voted.  I’m guessing that his wife assisted him.

            I was pretty politically aware beginning in high school, and I became politically active when I could vote (which I did just days after turning 18).  I reject your notion that mere property ownership in and of itself makes one more connected to the political process or gives one more “skin in the game”.  So, with your $10 per month investment yet homeless nature give you a greater stake in your community than my paying rent in my town for years?  I would certainly argue that it would not in and of itself.  I think that such a policy, which you yourself have acknowledged that you’re not advocating, would only serve to disenfranchise many younger, poorer or older voters.  Given that many senior citizens in modern America now live in retirement communities, where they probably do not own but rent or lease, they would largely be removed from the rolls.

            Your example of how cheaply property was available to you is also problematic, as a quick search of properties for sale near me turned up the lowest cost lot at $20k.  Now, if one is just making rent, and for some people renting is the far better option, the option of just tossing out a chunk of cash to get a bit of land in order to get onto the voting rolls would be a significant imposition to voting, unless one wanted to live in their car.  But hey, that’s a choice that they can make, right?  There are plenty of people who are working, making sacrifices and could not make it onto the property ladder in many places, so I think that your just do it philosophy is a bit of a fairy tale to many who are struggling to get by.

            “It’s a real problem when a majority elects an agenda that rewards themselves at the expense of others.”

            I can agree with that.  My problem is that the wealthiest people in this country have been doing fabulously well these past 30 years while many at the bottom have not.  I hear so much concern about those lazy people get food stamps but can afford the luxury of a car and a fridge coming from the right, but I hear little concern about the pro athletes who can avoid paying federal income taxes.  A very great many people in this country have been working harder and harder to scratch out a living in recent decades while being vilified because they aren’t getting rich.  Companies ship decent jobs overseas to boost corporate profits and the big stockholders complain about those former workers getting public assistance after being laid off.

            There are real problems with our system, and one of the biggest, at least in my opinion, is that if you have connections or if you have enough money, then you can get certain tax breaks and you can work the code in a way that gets you out of paying taxes, and, beautifully, and perhaps only in America, you’ll get lionized while some stiff who doesn’t make enough to pay federal income taxes, but who certainly pays plenty of local, state, and payroll taxes, gets marked at the bad guy.

            Well, that sort of rambled out of control, but at least I got it out before I headed out for the weekend.  I’m going to take my kids to the fair and then deal with a bunch of drunken rednecks at my brother’s place all weekend.  Have a good one, Gregg.  I hope that you enjoy your fishing or whatever else you may have on your agenda.

          • DrewInGeorgia

            Good reading, thank you.

            When I got to the part about buying your way out of paying taxes I immediately thought about about the fact that when it comes to getting needed healthcare only the financially solvent will survive. I’m glad there are still people in this country who haven’t abandoned common sense in favor of what they think is Patriotism (but is actually Nationalism).

            Thanks again Ray.

      • Ray in VT

        I like going down to the Town Hall on Election Day.  We take the whole family, and we make a point of marking it’s significance to our children.  That having been said, though, that doesn’t work for some people, so I think that early voting is a good option for some people.

        The Constitution says that Congress may choose the day of the election, but the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November apparently dates from an 1845 act.

        • Gregg

          That’s cool, voting should be a significant event. I wear the “I Voted” sticker too.

  • Josey

    Voter ID should be mandatory. If you lack an ID too bad. Go buy one. They are inexpensive and all responsible people have one. If you are not responsible enough to carry an ID then you are not allowed to vote. Only responsible people should be able to vote. I don’t want to hear the argument that poor people will be unfairly affected. They have enough money to eat out, buy North Face jackets, expensives sneakers and clothes, fancy cars, drugs, alcohol, and lottery. Let them not buy cigarettes for a week and go buy an ID. I bet they already have the money in their pocket but don’t think an ID is necessary. These are the useless consumers who should have no rights because they don’t help themselves! Go Republicans!!

    • Ray in VT

      So, if you don’t have some sort of approved ID then you’re just useless and shouldn’t be entitled to have a say in our political process?  Go ahead and run that out as the party platform then.  Good luck to you.  You probably think that there’s a bunch of poor women out there popping out kids so that they can buy a Cadillac with their welfare checks.  Some of your sentiments, especially the last two, are just the sort of statements that many will use to lampoon the GOP and the right.

      • notafeminista

        Let’s ask the guy in Tennessee who has 30 children by 11 women and wants a reduction in his child support.

        • Ray in VT

          Are you arguing that this hypothetical guy doesn’t have a photo ID and that the presence or absence of such would somehow affect his goal that you have proposed, or are you arguing that such a hypothetical person is a useless consumer and it doesn’t matter if he can’t vote?

    • DrewInGeorgia

      Capitalism said to tell you it thinks there is no such thing as a useless consumer.

      Confused?

    • Come On Now…

      So yeah… um I think your sentiments kind of prove the fact that this is not just about voter ID but about much much more…. Go Republicans??? Isn’t the right to vote an American ideal?
      “useless”? If you’ve been paying attention to any of the coverage there are people being affected that would not fit into your racially charged and classist views of those without ID.  But if the point is only for a certain group of people to be able to vote, then yes the Republicans are becoming more and more successful in those attempts.  SMH

    • har

       Since 2008 was racist and corrupt; vter ID should be mandatory

    • blatt

       Wow, congratulations on the most repulsive view in more than 300 comments to this story.

      I responded here so I can easily link back to it and show others the underlying attitudes of those supporting voter id laws.  Thanks!

    • jefe68

      I’m hoping this is a satirical comment.

      • notafeminista

        Satirical doesn’t make it incorrect.

  • Travis Schuster

    They spoke of the Mexican election and the P.A.N Party beating the long time entrenched P.R.I Party after these tougher registration laws were passed. Well while the center-right P.R.I Party was the entrenched party for sure, the  P.A.N Party IS NOT THE PARTY OF THE POOR actually they are a far right wing party of the elites. The party of the poor in Mexico is the P.R.D. Party and there’s in fact a case to be made not so much with the last election though P.R.I did have a media advantage, but the next to last election where P.A.N.’s Calderoun’s victory by only a fraction of a percent over the leftist’ Party, the P.R.D.’s Manuel Lopez Obrador. In other words, its totally the opposite result how many poor voters were kept from that election whom could have swung it to Obrador but were kept from that by this law. Once again. using P.A.N being the P.R.I years ago is not a good example cause P.A.N maybe have been outside but it was a pro-rich party, the P.R.D has been a victim of this law.

  • arydberg

    Questions about 911 unanswered… never mind.
    The food we eat… Illegal in Europe…   never mind.
    Constitutional  rights to privacy lost… never mind.
    We can be jailed indefinitely with no recourse … never mind.  

    But a voter ID card.   That is a real issue.    We are fiddling while Rome burns.  

    • har

       arydberg…never mind

  • Guest

    This is easy to do. Let us make sure this can be done on line or at your local library but as a Democrat I fully SUPPORT a Photo ID to vote. Get REAL people.. a voter’s id should be a requirement, to say the least. An exception for this election: expired DL or Passport should be allowed for all and maybe for all people over 80 years for the rest of their lives.

    This should solve any problems and those who are yelling can STOP sounding ridiculous.

    • Gregg

      That makes too much sense.

      • Bigleyjoshua

         then why do these voting stations not have photo id equipped onsite–snap the pic–log it–and bobs ur uncle–but they don’t–simply because they do NOT want to facilitate voting–they send you back with a billy club–why do so many swing county polling stations have legions of police and no photo id booth?  HMMM…

        What was not mentioned in this show-was the fact that voting stations are always on obscure hard to reach places that make absolutely no sense and always require an automobile to reach–hmmm. 

        If Republicans (and for that matter dems) were serious about voter turnout–they are not because they have their corporate paymasters–then they would institute a Voting National Holiday NOW! 

        DEMOCRACY DAY!  Democracy IS COMING, TO THE usa!  NO work for three days–block parties, fireworks, polling booths everywhere.  During theSE three days great debates would take place, lectures, speeches, conversations…the community votes together. 

        This is not the case, will not be discussed, is ignored because–rich people, corporations, the 1%, aristocrats, fascist– do not want us to vote.  Every effort has been aggressively pursued to stop democracy in this country by the rich, by the corporations

        I think it is DISGUSTING that no serious conversation has taken place about this very real issue of corporate spending and international corporate spending, soft money, bribes, corruption, bank frauds–criminals–our government is now a criminal institution that gallivants around the world committing acts of treason and genocide in the name of GOD and democracy–we don’t even have democracy at home.

        Why did Texas boy dismiss this argument so quickly?  It should have grabbed up and wielded like Beowulf!!!

        • Kairos

          There should be a national holiday for voting. 

  • Mkham6

    There is almost no voter fraud- it’s a red herring (last one I remember was Mayor of Miami Suarez, whi then was an election counter in 2000!). It is about Republicans winning because it disenfranchises Dems. It worked before in 2000- Al Gore actually won Florida by min. 40,000 votes. http://hammernews.com/duval.jpg

  • Craptastic2010

    What a load of crap. Taos is the equivalent of having the entire police force of New York City guarding a single 7 Eleven to deter shoplifters.

  • Greyman

    Planning not to listen to the show again, but I don’t recall hearing any mention of compulsory voting, which would obviate all concerns over voter ID. Wikipedia reports troubling news on this score, however: of the two dozen-odd states on the planet mandating “compulsory voting”, the mandate is enforced in just under half of them!

  • Asulyman1

    So as to Tx and Georgia, he says there is difference because “only legal residents” can get a gun permit, whereas illegals can go to school in GA. How is that a difference, when a “legal resident” also can’t vote? Also, they want to protect the integrity of the vote system, how does a process that disanfranchisez those who are clearly citizens. Also a lot of these las said would be free to get Birth certificate for example, yet whenimplemented they do reqiire a fee.

  • Addresslogics

    I wonder if people really know how common voter “fraud” really is?  I’ve seen the FIA data from voter data in Michigan and it was around 3.8%.  This included people above 100 years of age, younger than 18, etc.  Fraud is VERY common.

    • blatt

       You are claiming that 3.8% of votes cast in Michigan are fraudulent?  Please back this up with a link to a legitimate news story or analysis, as I look forward to reading more about this problem.

      But if you can’t back up that allegation, are we going to see you retract such a dramatic claim?

    • jefe68

      If you can’t back this up with hard data one has to assume you are just making up a fairy tale. I’ve been looking at these allegations and I can’t find anything to back up your claims.

      http://www.truthaboutfraud.org/

  • Bigleyjoshua

     If Republicans (and for that matter dems) were serious about voter
    turnout–they are not because they have their corporate paymasters–then
    they would institute a Voting National Holiday NOW! 

    DEMOCRACY DAY!  Democracy IS COMING, TO THE usa!  NO work for three
    days–block parties, fireworks, polling booths everywhere.  During theSE
    three days great debates would take place, lectures, speeches,
    conversations…the community votes together. 

    This is not the case, will not be discussed, is ignored because–rich
    people, corporations, the 1%, aristocrats, fascist– do not want us to
    vote.  Every effort has been aggressively pursued to stop democracy in
    this country by the rich, by the corporations

    I think it is DISGUSTING that no serious conversation has taken place
    about this very real issue of corporate spending and international
    corporate spending, soft money, bribes, corruption, bank
    frauds–criminals–our government is now a criminal institution that
    gallivants around the world committing acts of treason and genocide in
    the name of GOD and democracy–we don’t even have democracy at home.

    Why did Texas boy dismiss this argument so quickly?  It should have grabbed up and wielded like Beowulf!!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/walter.wooer Walter Wooer

    If the law is struck down, it will certainly be upheld on appeal to the US Supreme Court.  That being the case, the strike-down will be a call to arms to all hard working, honest voters in Pennsylvania.  The result will be a huge Romney win, and when it’s over, the 1965 voter rights act of 1965 will be allowed to finally retire.

  • Bigleyjoshua

    it’s time for cumulative voting–no law or constitutional clause prevents it–just do it!  Everyone gets three votes–place those votes for who you want–all on Green Stein, two on Stein, one on Obama, one for 3 different candidates–whatever, three points, three votes, three choices–triple sticks!

    Winner take all politics disenfranchises hundreds of millions.  Winner take all politics is retarded and fascist.

    Cumulative voting and direct democracy NOW!  I don’t need no corporate puppet telling me how to think, or voting on laws for me.  (My poor grammar was deliberate, grammar police).  We need a natinal democracy website NOW–with user ID–comments, votes, etc binged back to your email.  Democracy terminals would be set up in all public spaces like vending machines–rest stops, malls, bars (well maybe not bars), casinos–no pun intended–libraries,schools, , airports, BUS stations, TRAIN stations, clubs, churches, workcenters, VFWs, community centers, DEMOCRCY CEnters, 7/11, Quickymart, shopping centers,  internet cafes–would have easy access to the site for free–FREE by law–and accessed at home as well.  Gov should then spend some tax-payers money on upgrading internet capabilities, and cafes and public terminals.

    On the web site all representative votes would be disclosed and tallied and discussed–all contributions would be disclosed by law to be represented on site–research undertaken and exposed on site–voters would be empowered with the VOTE of NO CONFIDENCE!

    Media time must be free for all candidates with equal time–mandated by citizen power–we the people–by law!! 

    And all candidates should be allocated equal campaign finances by the people–no auxiliary contributions accepted!! 

  • Bigleyjoshua

    irony:  republicans want more bureaucracy and totalitarianism—big big government–these same methods are used in China-not to vote, but to exist!  Hmmm.

  • JGC

    You are not allowed to see my money! I have flipped on every other principle in my life, but now…NOW!… I make my moral stand.  No tax returns for your prying eyes.

    Vote for me.    If you can vote.

    Mitt 2012

  • Bigleyjoshua

    The point is if international elites–rich people can vote for in American elections–by using the right to corporate humanity bulljunk–speech and soft money and campaign contributions–then undocumented poor immigrants should be able to vote in America as well.  America houses a good range of world cultures and citizens and impacts the entire world.

    Abolish corporate citizenship, corporate financing in our elections, give us tax-payer financed elections and equal media time for ALL candidates–and I will retract my statement on undocumented immigrants voting–and accept Voter IDs–implemented during incumbency and not an election year–vans go house to house with cameras–and work places gathering documents–offer free shuttles to transport people to and from gov buildings and provide the documents without admin fees.  America is just too damn hard to get around in.  We are a third world!  Third world transportation—worse than 3rd world transport, 3rd world health care–worse, deteriorating education, 3rd world mentality, and mid-evil humanity–guns and war.

  • Gene

    Whenever this topic is discussed, I hear the same old argument every time. “People have to show IDs to get on planes. I had to show ID to get into the NPR studio.” I heard a guy on MSNBC drag out this tired argument, “I had to show an ID to get into the NBC studios to appear on your show.”

    This is the silliest of arguments and the easiest to knock down. There is no constitutional protection to the right to fly or the right to enter the NBC, NPR or any other studio. You don’t have to be a constitutional scholar to see that these are false equivalencies to the issue of voting. Yet, I still have not heard a single interviewer challenge this canard. Do interviewers not think to challenge it? Is it journalistic laziness? There may be compelling arguments for voter ID, but to compare showing an ID to buy a beer and having to show one to exercise a right is not one of them.  

    • Worried for the country(MA)

       Try again because you failed to make your case.

      • Gene

        It was not a case. It was merely an observation. Calling it a case is like calling your reply to it a refutation.

  • potter

    Bronner found his topic.

    Voter ID’s would be okay ONLY if the same energy that went into forming these laws also went into making sure that ALL people had very easy access to those ID’s. One caller talked about getting such an ID right there at the poll. ( Never mind that voter ID’s don’t seem to be necessary)

    Barring that easy access- these drives towards voter ID’s are a transparent campaign by Republicans who have proved themselves the greater cheaters, liars and definitely sore losers.

  • TomK in Boston

    The righty agenda is a time machine going full speed in reverse. Everything that I thought was part of the bad old days is coming back. So, what could be more natural than poll taxes and barriers to voting? Nobody should be surprised. If you want everything that seems crazy to make sense, just see it through the framework of a return to a 1900-ish era of superrich and sweatshops, and upper class and a lower class with no middle class.

  • Jennifer Linden

    It’s interesting that those who think they would benefit from fraudulent votes are the ones who deny its importance.  I have a right to leave the country and assume I can get back in, try doing that without an id.  I have a right to keep and bear arms…

    • TomK in Boston

      Actually there’s so little evidence of fraudulent votes that the interesting thing is an obsession over a non-existent problem. It’s a lot like the constant wailing about non-existent “redistribution” of income from the top, when the most important force in the USA right now is the redistribution TO the top. 

      The truth is that the right hopes to suppress legitimate votes to benefit themselves. As Holder said, it’s the return of the poll tax.

  • Worried for the country(MA)

     What is the reason for the Democrats vehement opposition to reasonable voter ID laws?

    We observe there is no outcry when id is required for access to airlines, beer at the ballpark, welfare benefits, check cashing, access to government buildings, access to federal landmarks, and many other every day occurrences.

    The only logical conclusion is they are concerned that these laws will prevent a long standing practice of voter fraud.  I wasn’t certain that voter fraud was a regular occurrence until I observed their reaction.

    • Gene

      So you think it is logical to conclude that because you have observed Democrats’ opposition to voter ID laws that it is certain that voter fraud is a regular occurrence? You have an interesting take on what is logical.

      I wasn’t certain that Iraq had wmd’s in the wake of 911 but after seeing the Republican’s reaction, I have concluded that wmd’s are rampant in Iraq. Beautiful logic!

      • Ray in VT

        I was sure that there was no such thing as class war until I heard the GOP denounce it’s existence so vehemently.

      • Worried for the country(MA)

         WMD existence was a bipartisan and international TRUTH — until we found out otherwise.

        • cambridgeknitter

          Actually, it wasn’t.  It’s just that the loudest voices were the ones catapulting the propaganda and denouncing anyone who dared speak the truth as traitors.

          • Gregg
          • TFRX

            Yep. I was called traitor for it, too.

            And let’s here Worried give us more crap about how everyone had all the intelligence.

          • DrewInGeorgia

            I knew what was coming the moment they threw Bin Lauden’s name up while the attacks were still taking place. I tried to lay it out but like always no one wants to be told something they don’t want to hear. And I’m the traitor…lol

          • cambridgeknitter

            “Wrong on Iraq?  Not Everyone”  http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2847

    • Ray in VT

      I think that there is very strong skepticism from many Democrats as to the motives of the groups pushing these measures.  Photo IDs are not essential to many, despite the list of activities which you have provided.  I could probably get through a year without using one more than half a dozen times, and some certainly don’t even do that.

      I think that your logical conclusion is logically flawed.  So you are now sure that there is voter fraud because some are vehemently opposed to some of these ID measures.  Can we also conclude, then, that those who are opposed to various gun tracking measures only do so because they must logically be engaging in sort sort of illegal gun running activities.  There has certainly been evidence of significant voter fraud especially during the 19th century, but there has been very little verified evidence of it in modern America.

      • Worried for the country(MA)

         I take your point about motives.  However, I still believe photo ID is a reasonable requirement for voting.  Most of the laws don’t have crazy or onerous restrictions.  In fact, they bend over backwards by offering free IDs to voters.

        It doesn’t take much fraud to swing an election.  Think about FL in 2000 or the Al Franken election in MN.  A few hundred stolen votes would swing the difference.  Also, look at Cleveland.  They famously return their vote very late.  The mayor even ‘joked’ that we can’t turn in the vote until we  find out how many we need.

        I wouldn’t be skeptical of the Democrats IF they agreed to the photo ID but insisted instead on fair access to photo IDs.  I would be with them on that argument.

        btw – When I visited the USS Constitution in Boston earlier this year, they required a driver’s license with photo or a passport with photo.  It was run by the US Navy.

        • cambridgeknitter

          The fraud in Florida was the government keeping people from voting and then the Supreme Court keeping the votes from being counted because W would suffer irreparable harm if they were counted and it turned out that Gore won (which he did, by the way, no matter what standard was used to count the punchcard votes).  How does photo ID affect that?  Try thinking about what the problem is (and it isn’t people impersonating other people at the polls; the Bush Administration spent millions and millions of dollars trying to find it and fired lots of US Attorneys for refusing to prosecute without evidence, and they still couldn’t find more than a very, very few instances) and then see if you can come up with a solution that actually bears some relation to the problem.  People aren’t impersonating other people at the polls.  They just aren’t.

          • Gregg

            So they didn’t count the votes that the government kept voters from casting? Huh?

            Bush won. The votes have been counted by every radical left wing group out there 1000 times. Bush won. Judge Sanders Saul had the whole thing wrapped up nicely until the rogue Florida Supreme court inserted itself.

          • DrewInGeorgia

            No mention of the FAUX News premature declaration of “VICTORY!!!” and the subsequent slap in the face of the American People by the SCOTUS? What about Diebold? What is wrong with you?

          • Gregg

            I was just commenting with JonS on another board about the obsession with Fox, I don’t get it. NBC was the first to call the election for Bush but they all did… correctly as it turns out.

            “We don’t just have egg on our face,” NBC’s Tom Brokaw said. “We have an omelette.”

            http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20001108/aponline183922_000.htm

            Any voter registration fraud can be blamed on Democrats who controlled the process. What about the military ballots? The only slapping was done by the Florida Supreme Court and the SCOTUS confirmed that 7-2. Bush won and your comment makes no sense.

          • cambridgeknitter

            OK, I’ll try to use simple words.  At the order of Gov. Jeb Bush and Secretary of State Katherine Harris, DBT/ChoicePoint made a list of alleged felons they knew to be wildly inaccurate so that the voting rolls could be scrubbed of thousands upon thousands of African-American voters and others who might commit the crime of voting for Democrats ( http://rangevoting.org/PalastFlaFelons.html ).  Then bad punchcards were used in Palm Beach County over the objections of Sequoia Voting Systems employees responsible for quality control (see, e.g., http://www.bradblog.com/?p=4960 ).  Then there were other anomalies, like the infamous butterfly ballots and the machines that gave Al Gore negative 16,000 votes in Volusia County ( http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7061 ).  A consortium of news sources actually counted ballots that were read by the machines as undervotes (i.e., no vote for president) and concluded that, had all of them been counted under any standard, Gore would have won (see citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.187 ).So, in summary, thousands of eligible voters were purged from the voting rolls, and then the votes of the people who did get to vote were miscounted.  OK?

          • Gregg

            Please. Democrat were in charge and made all the rules. Do you want to look at absentee military ballots? Do you want to count illegal votes? Do you assume any and all anomalies go to Gore? They counted the votes, Bush won.

          • James

            Nope, they didn’t count the votes, Bush won.  Read the above links again.  Bush’s campaign fought to EXCLUDE late military ballots returning to Democratic leaning precincts, Gore lifted his objections to late military ballots statewide.  No principles, just win, baby.  

        • DrewInGeorgia

          “I take your point about motives”

          I take your point about motives, I just refuse to acknowledge it’s validity would have been sufficient.

    • Gregg

      It was troubling when Eric Holder dropped the clear case of voter intimidation against the New Black Panthers. Democrats don’t mind when the right voters are intimidated. If voter fraud benefits them, they’re cool with that too. So, a very reasonable step is vilified.

      • James

        One of the problems with the case was finding any intimidated voters.  This is very weak sauce.

      • xboxershorts

        Another problem with the case is that the dude was a registered poll watcher. He had a right to be there. he just shouldn’t have had the stick.

    • TFRX

      What the right calls “reasonable”, and the half-assed, slipshod way this shit has to be done thisverysecondohmygod!!!Crisis!!11one!

      Your polite manner isn’t fooling anyone.

    • TomK in Boton

      What is the reason for your total lack of suspicion when some faction goes after a non-existent problem? Are you really that naive?

      Look at this statement by the state of PA in response to a lawsuit against their voter suppression law:

      “There have been no investigations or prosecutions of in-person voter fraud in Pennsylvania; and the parties do not have direct personal knowledge of any such investigations or prosecutions in other states,” the statement reads.

          According to the agreement, the state “will not offer any evidence in this action that in-person voter fraud has in fact occurred in Pennsylvania and elsewhere,” nor will it “offer argument or evidence that in-person voter fraud is likely to occur in November 2012 in the absense of the Photo ID law.””


      As I said earlier, it’s exactly like worrying about redistribution of wealth FROM the top when the oligarchs are richer than ever.

      In a logical rule, we take steps to fix a problem. We don’t make a big production over fixing what ain’t broke. When that happens, a 10 year old would know to look for the real agenda. And nothing could be more obvious. The right knows that many poor and old people, who primarily vote democratic, will be deterred from voting by their new laws. End of story.

    • Joel Barry

      There were zero cases of voter fraud found in Pennsylvania in recent years. It doesn’t happen. What person in their right mind would enter a polling pl. and try to vote as another person? If he was an illegal, he be deported.

    • Suzvt

      Flying,purchasing beer at the ball park,welfare benefits,cashing checks,entering govt. bdgs.,and access to landmarks are not at the heart of what makes this a democratic country. We are guaranteed the right to vote in the elections.  Do you not get that there are some people in this country with limited access, if any, to transportation, as well as funds, and many other things that could make a trip to get an I.D. very difficult if not impossible? My 86 yr. old mother is in poor health,(lives 11 hrs. away from me) and finds it a real challenge to get to her drs. appts. or anywhere else. She’s suppose to now run around and get a photo I.D.?She’s on very limited funds and every time I try to help her with groceries she finds that humiliating. She’s a proud person that worked hard all her life. It’s not merely a matter of getting “off her behind.” Any unusual exertion takes a toll on her health. By the way she never had a license, she always walked to work. It is not as easy to get an I.D. as you seem to think. If you bothered to listen to other sides with an open mind you would already know that.      

    • xboxershorts

      This is not a reasonable voter ID law. THAT is why all the hubub about PA.

  • huevetas

    Oh my… we have so many problems.  From corporations who can donate oodles amount and thereby manipulate democracy (making a mockery of it) to the people who don’t want to get an ID.  

    Get off your behind… if you want to drive, you get an ID.  If you want to vote, get an ID!  What’s so hard!  Now, the government should make it easy to get said IDs, maybe by working with states through their RMVs?  We’re talking jobs here!

  • xboxershorts

    Ignorant fools. This law was never about protecting election integrity. It’s about disenfranchising a subset of voters.

    Read this, look at the maps of those who would likely be affected, and tell me this isn’t intended to target a very specific demographic:

    http://www.azavea.com/blogs/atlas/2012/08/does-pas-new-voter-id-law-impact-groups-differently-by-ethnicity/ 

    The data for this map was drawn directly from the PA Department of state.

    Go ahead, implement a voter ID law that fairly allows voters to obtain ID. Write that law and pass it. But THIS law that PA adopted SUCKS

  • Mittens Romoney

    You people just don’t get it! Pox News reported that there are tunnels from Kenya to Texas, Alabama and Florida. Millions of illegal Kenyans will pour from these tunnels on election day to steal the vote so that a big tax can be put on our job creators…

  • Michael Clifford

    Never mind tunnels from Kenya, how about the graveyards in Chicago?  Kennedy won in Illinois in ’60 because of the crooked vote n Cook County.

    You cannot cash a check without proper ID. Why do you think that is?  Maybe it’s because there are people who will claim to be someone who they are not in order to steal. I do not want someone to steal my vote by claiming that they are someone who they are not and voting.

    Most states provide non-driving ID for individuals who do not drive.  If the left was so concerned that people cannot obtain proper ID why don’t they help folks register to vote and get the proof that they need to obtain an ID.  Everyone who casts a vote should be able to prove that they are qualified to do so. 

  • Atkinsopht

    There is an elephant in this room that not a single one of the previous 400-odd responders have so far identified:
    False Equivalence- It has been my understanding that NPR had renounced the use of false equivalency in its content. Not so, evidently.
    There is no moral or importance equivalency whatsoever between the defense of witch-hunting for nonexistent voter fraud (one side of the falsity) and the stark reality of GOP, third-world style, election rigging (the other).
    I feel that it was indefensible for NPR to have given the views of a Republican hack from the Heritage Foundation equal moral footing with those who understand (but were too timid to admit it on air) the criminality of the fact of voter suppression by the GOP.
     

  • http://buysteroidsuk.co/ Buy Steroids

    it amazes me that u can vote without proper id in some states.

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