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Week In The News: Campaign Barbs, Killer Drought, Syria Blast

Romney’s tax storm. Killer drought deepens. Syria “spinning out of control.” Our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

People walk past longnose gars and a catfish on a sand bar at the Platte River near the Louisville state recreation area in Neb., Tuesday, July 17, 2012. Low water flow due to lack of precipitation has exposed large areas of the river bed. (AP)

People walk past longnose gars and a catfish on a sand bar at the Platte River near the Louisville state recreation area in Neb., Tuesday, July 17, 2012. Low water flow due to lack of precipitation has exposed large areas of the river bed. (AP)

Batman and death last night in Colorado.  A dozen dead, fifty wounded in the cinema shooting spree.  A ghoulish, terrible opening night.  In Damascus this week, blows to the heart of the Assad regime.  Fighting goes on.  Across the Midwest and beyond, punishing drought.  Crops hit.  We will pay.

In politics, Mitt Romney says no, no, no to releasing more than two years’ tax returns.  But the pressure’s still on.  Romney’s surrogate says President Obama needs to “learn to be an American.”  The campaigns debate what that means.

This hour, On Point:  our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

-Tom Ashbrook

 

Guests

John Harwood, chief Washington correspondent for CNBC and a columnist at the New York Times.

Diane Brady, senior editor for Bloomberg/Businessweek.

Jack Beatty, On Point news analyst.

From Tom’s Reading List

National Review “ If he releases more returns, Romney will be in a better position to resist the inevitable demands for even more disclosures. More important, he will be in a better position to pivot his campaign to what should be its focus — telling a story, through a series of detailed, substantive speeches, about where he wants to take the country.”

 The Washington Post “The attack seemed to mark a pivotal moment in the revolt, the first time that the regime’s tightly controlled and fiercely loyal inner circle has been punctured since Syrians first took to the streets to demand reforms in March 2011 and, later, took up arms. ”

Reuters “As the drought, rated the worst since 1956, expands to the northern and western Midwest, areas that had previously been spared, analysts were slashing corn yield estimates by the hour. Some were also starting to cut their forecasts on the number of acres that will be harvested as farmers opt to plow under some of their parched fields to claim insurance.”

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  • Wm. James from Missouri

    To “L” with Mitt. I choose MIT !

    Researchers at MIT say they have invented a new kind of filtration method to desalinate water using a filter made of graphene, that is one-atom-thick, it is supposedly more efficient and probably cheaper than existing desalination methods. You may find out more at :

    http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2012/graphene-water-desalination-0702.html

    It seems to me that this story and type of story should be given much, much more air time than these silly politicians and criminal elite robber barons that constantly make the news. Think about it. This ONE idea has the potential to allow anyone, anywhere, anytime , to produce clean drinkable water from seawater or otherwise undrinkable water ! If that wasn’t enough, by using a little common sense anyone should be able to abstract and generalize this simple, yet sophisticated idea, to other filterable resources. Consider the fact that it is generally accepted that the oceans and it’s water content contain 70 times as much gold as has ever been mined in the history of the world ( Note: the Oceans comprise about 70 percent of the surface area of the Earth, this is a no-brainer type of estimate. ). It seems reasonable that you should be able to extract precious metals and other minerals by combining various filters of different porosities in different combinations. THINK, NO MORE SHORTAGES ! Maybe you could care less about economics. Then I suggest that you consider the possibility of using this technology to filter pathogens or unwanted molecules from the blood of the sick ! Or how about the possibility of mining deuterium from the Oceans water to produce cheaper than cheap energy ! Maybe we should put the team of researchers that developed this wonderful invention in charge for a week or two. Who knows, maybe we can actually get something worthwhile done !

     

  • Newton Whale

    John Harwood knows better than anyone that Mitt Romney is lying when he says he left Bain in 1999. That’s because Mr. Harwood asked Romney this question at the CNBC Debate in Michigan on November 9, 2011:
    HARWOOD: What can you say to Republicans to persuade them that the things you say in the campaign are rooted in something deeper than the fact that you are running for office?ROMNEY: John, I think people know me pretty well, particularly in this state, in the state of Massachusetts, New Hampshire that’s close by, Utah, where I served in the Olympics. I think people understand that I’m a man of steadiness and constancy.I don’t think you are going to find somebody who has more of those attributes than I do. I have been married to the same woman for 25 — excuse me, I will get in trouble, for 42 years.(LAUGHTER)ROMNEY: I have been in the same church my entire life. I worked at one company, Bain, for 25 years. http://www.cnbc.com/id/45074943 

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq00QI1cGJk&feature=player_embedded 

    Mitt Romney started at Bain in 1977:

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/680195957/Plenty-of-pitting-preceded-Romneys-profits.html?pg=3 

    1977 + 25 = 2002.

    Which is exactly what the SEC filings say.

    • Guest

      I have known many, many people who were the president, CEO, and sole shareholder of a company but didn’t participate in the day-to-day management of the company for a period of time, sometimes years.  They may have been starting a new business that required all of their time, taken a vacation, or had medical or family problems, and they had competent managers who ran the business for them.  President, CEO, and sole shareholder are not positions that change because someone else is making the decisions.

  • Newton Whale

    Ann Romney on tax returns: ‘We’ve given all you people need to know’

     

    ROBERTS: Why not show that then? Why not release the- because then it’s a moot point and people move on.ANN ROMNEY: Because so many things that will be open, again, to attack. You don’t want to give more material for more attack. That’s just the answer. And we have given all you people need to know and understand about our financial situation and how we live our life. 

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFX7jqUW1-8 

    • John in Amherst

       Mitt is right – he is giving us all we need to know: he would be a president who would prefer to operate without the full knowledge or consent of the voters.

      • notafeminista

        As opposed to those invoking executive privilege?

        • Don_B1

          Apples and oranges!

          • notafeminista

            Oh come now folks, either we’re transparent or we’re not.  What’s it gonna be?

          • John in Amherst

             You folks on the right have continually hounded Obama to provide, verify and reverify official documentation related his life from birth, through college, to the present.  You’d think Mitt could cough up more than a year or two of tax returns.  Hell, even some in the GOP are calling for this.

          • notafeminista

            Right, where’s President Obama’s  transcripts again?

          • John in Amherst

             Maybe check w/ Harvard.  Oh, and maybe the whole editor of the Harvard Law review was a conspiracy, too.  Never know about these liberals…

        • kelty

          Which has absolutely nothing to do with the subject.

        • John in Amherst

           Setting aside the diversionary tactic of your remark, have You checked the number of times President Obama has invoked this and compared it to the last president?

          • notafeminista

            As I recall, this president was marketed and  sold as better than the previous one.  I would certainly hope that his record is better.  A man is only as good as his word.

          • John in Amherst

             I’d admit Bush II set a low bar

          • notafeminista

            And yet President Obama has managed to best him.

          • John in Amherst

             I thought you could count beyond 1

    • margbi

       Move along now. Nothing to see here. (Advice from the thought police.)

  • Newton Whale

    Romney Reaps Riches From Workers Forced To Train Their Chinese Replacements 

    WASHINGTON — Mitt Romney saved himself hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes in 2010 by transferring stock in two companies from his personal account to a nonprofit entity he set up. The stock maneuver included $172,397 in shares of Sensata Technologies, a company now under fire for a high-profile effort to offshore central Illinois jobs to China.Sensata produces sensors, switches and various mechanical controls. The Attleboro, Mass.-based company is owned by Bain Capital, the private equity firm Romney founded, and it already does most of its work in overseas plants. A remaining factory in Freeport, Ill., garnered national attention when remaining workers began pleading with Romney to exercise his influence over Bain Capital to save their jobs.Romney had received the Sensata stock as part of a Bain payout; he listed no cost for it on his tax return. By transferring that stock to his nonprofit Tyler Charitable Foundation, he avoided roughly $25,000 in capital gains taxes he would have owed. He also shaved an additional $50,000 off his tax bill by deducting the charitable contribution from his income.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/19/mitt-romney-stocks-sensata_n_1687777.html Open Letter to Mitt Romney

    Dear Gov. Romney,

    We work at Sensata Technologies in Freeport, Illinois — a company owned by Bain Capital, which you started, ran, and still profit from.

    Our jobs are about to be outsourced to China. More than 150 of us will lose our jobs — and some of us have worked here for over 40 years. The worst indignity is that many of us are being asked to train the Chinese workers who are taking our jobs.

    It’s not right that our good American jobs are being sent to China. It’s not right that you stand to get even richer off of our loss and pain.
    http://rockrivertimes.com/2012/07/18/sensata-employees-in-freeport-reach-out-to-mitt-romney-for-help-in-saving-their-jobs-2/ 

  • Ed

    A better way to desalinate water, wonderful! Maybe it will be practical.

    Catholic Charities of Illinois and Wheaton College have joined the law suit against the Affordable (!) Care Act (Obamacare), making over 50 entities suing, plus the united opposition of the Catholic Bishops’ Conference. President Obama is waging a war not only against the Church (“We at war with the Catholic Church” says Sibelius), but also against the poor.

    Catholic Charities of Illinois serves 1.3 million people a year. If they have to close who will provide them meals and clothing and shelter and basic health care? The government can’t afford it.

    • John in Amherst

       The war is not against The Church, it is against the church’s imposition of its dogma against reproductive choice.  The Church is free to preach its beliefs, the faithful are free to practice morality however they chose.  The administration is trying to make sure that people who do not share the Church’s position are also free to practice as  they see fit without breaking the law or endangering their health.

      • notafeminista

        If you don’t like the Church’s dogma, then pick a different church. 

        • Denis

          That is exactly the point isn’t it?  If I choose a differant church I should not be required to follow the dogma of the church I left!

        • John in Amherst

           I did, and I want to be able to follow its tenets unimpeded by the morality of the Right

          • notafeminista

            If you left the Church then you have no problem.

            Pretty funny to hear a lefty talking about being unimpeded though.

          • TFRX

            Yep. The “midnight cab ride” to a real hospital for a rape victim is just another thing we’re just making up.

          • notafeminista

            Emotionally manipulative.  Nice try though.

          • John in Amherst

             I DO have a problem: a right wing political agenda that seeks to eliminate my freedom to practice my beliefs.

          • notafeminista

            It doesn’t eliminate anything.  Birth control (as it was stated and proven repeatedly) is readily and cheaply available.  The Left wants the Catholic church to bend and/or break thousands of years of church policy (which apparently is well understood by TRFX above) for a carnal whim.  

          • TFRX

            In the name of religious freedom, don’t misquote me about how the Church wants to infest a state, to the detriment of non-believers.

            That religious fist has long since threatened to hit my proverbial nose.

          • notafeminista

            You’ll need to point to a specific source where any Church claimed to want to infest the state.

        • TFRX

          Awfully pat advice.

          You weren’t raised in any sort of faith that involved “guilt” and “heaven” and “hell”, were you?

          For many people, changing faith isn’t like changing socks. That’s why it’s called faith. That’s why stopping going to any church is a wrenching, agonizing personal decision for many folks.

          • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

            Yeah, it’s hard to trade in our security blankie for reality. What’s necessary is never easy.

          • TFRX

            Especially given the Church’s wish to impose in non-Church settings on certain followers (and non-followers) who don’t hold the power its leaders do, and never can because of their gender, yours is a much more nuanced statement on the situation.

            Good stuff.

          • notafeminista

            It is pat.  Sounds remarkably like “If you don’t want an abortion, don’t get one.”

          • TFRX

            And yet you have no clue about the Church butting into non-Church politicking (while still miraculously being tax exempt) and wanting to discriminate in insurance for employees where it cannot discriminate in hiring those same people.

            And let’s stop pretending that the Church, capital C, is the same as the hospitals and other things it runs which competes in the marketplace, not a church proper.

            I’ll just stop with “yet you have no clue”. It saves me a lot of time.

          • notafeminista

            Make up your mind,  either it’s an agonizing, horrible awful ,gut-wrenching decision with long term real and imagined consequences that has the potential to affect generations to come…..or its not. 

            You choose.

            And remember your “pat” comment the next time you’re slinging barbs at those who are not pro-choice.

          • TFRX

            I’ll remember that when I say “Let’s force anti-choicers to have abortions because my god says so”.

          • notafeminista

            Tut tut there TRFX.  You put up an eloquent and heartfelt post about how strongly people feel about their faith.   Were you perhaps less than sincere?

          • TFRX

            No point talking sense to you, is there?

          • TFRX

            No point talking sense to you about anything, is there?

        • kelty

          The Church does not have the right to enforce its views on those who are NOT members who work for businesses that are affiliated with the church, but not an actual church, like universities or hospitals.     

          • notafeminista

            Why on earth would someone who deliberately left the Catholic church because of its dogma, go to work for the same entity? 

            This is nothing but an attempt to get the Catholic church to change thousands of years of policy just to suit someone’s carnal whims.

          • kelty

            People who are not Catholic, or even Christian for that matter, work for Catholic organizations. Do you actually think all the doctors, nurses, orderlies, janitors, CNA/LNA/LPN, etc working at Catholic Hospitals are ALL Catholic? Your employer cannot force you to adhere to their religious tenets which is exactly what these businesses are trying to do.  

          • notafeminista

            You didn’t answer the question.

          • kelty

            Your question had nothing to do with my statements – you were the one who interposed it – didn’t mean I had to answer anything. 

          • notafeminista

            So why would someone who left the Catholic faith go to work for an employer founded and funded by the Catholic faith?

          • Don_B1

            For many people, the job with a church-afilitated entity may be the only one available. Just because you have followed a life path that affords you choices in jobs does NOT mean that everyone is that fortunate.

          • notafeminista

            Well of course its not the only one available.  There are jobs all over the place.   It depends largely on what the potential employee is willing to do.   If a potential employee left the Catholic church because he/or she disagreed with it in principle, then going to work for the Catholic church seems like a cop-out at the very least.  Principles anyone?

          • John in Amherst

             I believe in feeding the poor, and caring for the sick and dying.  If I live in a community or society where the only institution that provides a framework for doing charitable acts also seeks to impose its moral strictures on its employees or citizens, I would be faced with an intractable problem.  To take a quote from a bumpersticker: Opposed to abortion?  Don’t have one.  I believe life begins at first breath, not coitus.

          • notafeminista

            Well good that you live in a society that provides for care of the sick and dying through coercion of the healthy.  Heaven forbid there be a framework other than taxation to provide for others.  And as for not having an abortion, I will refer you to TRFX’s heartrending argument about how difficult it is to leave one’s faith.  The principles of the Left smack of something warm and brown.

    • JGC

      Speaking of waging war, is this a war to see who can provide the One and Only True Charity to those in need?  If people need help, why not have all willing hands on deck, rather than just the right hands or the left hands? 

      In the end most would prefer to provide for themselves, so the U.S. needs policy and law that will give everyone a fair chance.  Obamacare and the Consumer Protection Act are just two new laws that are helping address major deficiencies in financial justice, and not just for the poor, but for everyone.

    • ana

      There is no war against the Catholic Church. Most people do not give it a second thought except when a new abuse issue is exposed.
        The Catholic Bishop’s conference is just another arm of the far right-reveling in the victim status.  Let them keep their nose out of politics.  If Catholics do not wish to use contraception they are free not to.   The majority of Americans are not opposed to it.  
         

      • John in Amherst

         Bravo.  If only the Church spent as much time policing its own ranks as it does meddling in politics…

  • Ed

    The Nuba in the area between Northern and Southern Sudan are being killed by the northern government in a genocide. NGOs can’t go in because it is a war zone.

  • John in Amherst

    It seems like no world event or act of nature is beyond politics now.  As the drought deals yet another blow to the economy (which like the eurocrisis, the slowing of China’s economy, etc, is beyond the president’s control), it will be interesting to see if (or more likely how) the GOP and their media surrogates try to blame Obama – if not for the actual drought, then for some aspect of the crisis’ management. 

    • notafeminista

      Aren’t all presidents responsible for acts of nature?

      • John in Amherst

         I suppose it depends on the party of the president and the party of the blamers.

        • Emily Littela

          Where is this presidential party and why are they in bloomers? – Oh, never mind

      • Cixelsyxd

        More applicable – are all presidents are responsible for the nature of their acts?

    • notafeminista

      This is more interesting anyway….

      http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0712/78637.html

      • Gregg

        It’s just like the debt commission, a meaningless sideshow the President has no intention of heeding.

        • John in Amherst

          Meaningless sideshow?  Like the repeated votes to repeal the ACA??

          • Gregg

            That’s legislation passed for the will of the people. And the commissions do what?

          • John in Amherst

            Right.  Will of the people.  38 times, to no effect other than political.  Where was your argument during the first 2 years of Obama’s term, when the GOP was able to thwart the “will of the people” as expressed in the 2008 election, by requiring a supermajority to pass virtually every bill and approve every appointee?

      • John in Amherst

        nice attempt at diversion, nota.  Good to see you working off the GOP playbook.

        • notafeminista

          Sorry, I was carried away by 8.2% unemployment and what…? 190,000 jobs last month?  Unexepectedly low for a record-breaking 38 months in a row. 

    • Gregg

      George Bush blew up the levies.

  • Ed

    Mitt Romney’s tax returns aren’t an issue: many businesses at that time were outsourcing.

    • Vasco DeGrabya

      Why not release them, if they are not an issue.  He is not required to release them, just as he is not required to run for president.  Disclosure is part of the deal, bud.

      Oh shoot.  I commented on a post by Ed.  I forgot that Ed doesn’t do discourse.

    • JGC

      If Mitt and Ann Romney’s tax returns are not an issue, could the Bain/Romney investment holdings in Stericycle, a medical waste disposal company that also treated abortion waste, and one of Bain’s strongest profit generators ($49.5-million) be an issue for some voters?

      Maybe it will be an issue for Romney to reflect upon publicly, but only after sufficient spiritual consultation with his church, political and tax advisors.

    • Don_B1

      No presidential candidate has released as few tax returns as Romney; his refusal to release more is itself an indicator that HE thinks they would be an issue. The only question is why he thinks that.

      But even more to the point, he thinks he shouldn’t have to release them; “just trust me!” Remember Reagan’s comment, “Trust, but verify!”

      The American public deserves to know the facts and not have to speculate that Romney was more than just a “good businessman.” Businessmen who became President of the United States have generally been among the worst rated presidents in the country’s history.

      • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

        “I am not a crook!”

        Why does that sound familiar? lol

  • http://twitter.com/drewyoutoo Interloper

    Romney stuck his tongue out Obama! Obama thumbed his nose at Romney! Romney told Obama to go suck an egg! Obama called Romney a bully! And on, and on, and on, and on…

    Thank goodness the world isn’t literally tearing itself apart at the seams. Thank goodness the Global Financial Sector’s blatant malfeasance hasn’t introduced millions of new people to starvation and homelessness. Thank goodness the most important news we have to worry about is two five year old children fighting on the playground over a Tonka truck. Sad On Point, very sad.

    Spews would be more accurate than News. And behind the headlines? pft.

  • http://grabida.com/ Doug in Virginia

    Romney’s campaign would do well to listen to even the Conservative media–http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/07/16/mitt-romney-only-has-himself-to-blame-for-team-obama-bain-trap/. The message: you should have seen this coming, so stop stonewalling and provide the proof. The Romney compaign’s strategy just highlights the lack of creativity on their part. One of Romney’s responses has been that Obama wants Americans to be ashamed of success. Really? With record campaign contributions, that’s the best Mitt’s advisors can come up with? No surprise. During a victory speech after one of the 2008 primaries, Romney said he finally found his voice. Sound familiar? Hillary Clinton said those same words after winning the New Hampshire primary.

    To be fair, I can’t say the Democrats are much better. At the age of 60, Hillary Clinton, a successful, educated, strong woman, finally finds her voice? Like a new instrument, tool, or weapon, wouldn’t she rather spend some time perfecting her skill before becoming the President of the United States of America? “Found my voice” was obviouly no more than a politial soundbyte, but where do the political marketing people come up with these? They can’t be spending much thought on public statements. Otherwise, Obama’s staff would have something better to say about Romney’s denials than “stay tuned.” If they had more information, the Obama campaign would have released it after FactCheck.org shot down the accusations.

    More proof that little thought goes into rhetoric is seen in John Sununu’s recent bovine scatology that Obama needs to learn how to be a better American. Really? I guess continuing with Bush’s policy of cross-border drone attacks in Pakistan, giving the go ahead on taking down Bin Laden and other high level terrorist targets, and keeping Guantanamo open are not American enough.

    • TFRX

      Oh, John Sununu!

      Born in Cuba, parents from…where, saying what our President needs to learn?

      Is he a random (R) on teevee, or does he work for the GOP in any direct sense?

  • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

    Everyone seems to be getting tied up in whether or not Romney actively made decisions during his tenure at Bain that resulted in outsourcing. Talk about missing the point.

    It’s really simple. Was he receiving pay? Yes.
    How can anybody want a President that will say: “I was just the POTUS, you can’t possibly hold me responsible for anything that occurred during my time in office.”

    Go ahead voters, vote against your own interest. You’ve certainly had plenty of practice.

    • Guest

      Thanks for my laugh of the morning.  “I was just the POTUS, you can’t possibly hold me responsible for anything that occurred during my time in office.”  Isn’t that exactly what President Obama has been saying for three and a half years?

      • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

        Name a president since Carter that hasn’t said just that. Nothing more anti-American than accountability is there?

      • John in Amherst

         No

      • Don_B1

        Definitely not! He has taken credit for stopping the plunging of the economy which was underway when he took office. He correctly has pointed out that the economy he inherited was much worse than any in the last 70 years and that it takes a lot to recover from that deep a recession due to overleveraging, not just a FED forced one where the FED raises interest rates to slow the economy and then lowers them to create the recovery. This time the FED had to lower interest rates to keep the economy from further tanking and has run out of room to lower interest rates any further as they are already just barely above zero. [Economists call that reaching the Zero Lower Bound.]

        What he did do was let the subject be detoured to deficit spending, which played into the hands of the Republicans, and the delay allowed the Republicans to further delay the spending, particularly on infrastructure, that could have created a stronger economy that would have guaranteed him reelection.

  • Gregg

    After this last outburst by President Obama, expect him to be back on prompter. He’s up there telling folks their hard work means nothing and at the same time telling others they are entitled. It’s crazy.

    This piece obliterates Obama premise:

    http://pjmedia.com/zombie/2012/07/18/the-ultimate-takedown-of-obamas-you-didnt-build-that-speech/

    • Vasco DeGrabya

      I missed that one.  When did he say THAT?

    • Guest

      I agree with Rich Lowry who wrote that “Behind its smiley we’re-all-in-it-together façade is a frank demand: You owe us.” 

      • TFRX

        Who is Lowry getting starbursts about this time around?

    • TFRX

      Linking PajamaMedia says more about you than about President Obama.

    • JGC

      “Obama” and “outburst” seem like a non sequitur.

    • Suzvt

      You’re turning his words around to support your prejudices.Of course he doesn’t believe their hard work means nothing. He’s just understanding even though we’re working hard, but the rewards are shrinking. It’s hard to pay for high medical costs and put food on the table, or buy a house with simply the pride and high work ethics of a full time job that doesn’t pay a decent living wage or benefits.Can you actually make an intelligent argument without taking statements out of context, exaggerating, and do you EVER take a critical look at “your side”? 

      • Gregg

        I disagree. He may not be speaking literally but his message is clear. Government is not the answer and he’s running ads to sign people up for more handouts. Meanwhile, he’s demonizing hard work and belittling the concept of personal achievement. It’s the exact opposite of what we need right now. More divisiveness. It’s hideous.

        • Suzvt

          You are so wrong, but I’m afraid you’ve come to the table with predetermined opinions and there’s no hope of you taking an unbiased look at the issues. It’s another “anybody but Obama” mind set. I don’t believe in too many govt. handouts and don’t always agree with Obama, but the absurd notion that Romney has what it takes to help this country to succeed or cares one bit about the lower and middle classes would be laughable if people’s lives weren’t at stake. 

          • Gregg

            Please. Is he running ads for handouts or not? He’s certainly belittling hard work, how can you interpret otherwise? I’m not speaking in a vacuum, you are.

            If Obama drastically reduced the size of government, made draconian cuts to spending, lifted the drilling moratorium and made all the tax cuts  permanent then I’d not only vote for him, I’d tattoo his name on my forehead.

          • notafeminista
      • Don_B1

        Gregg doesn’t post on this site to make “intelligent” arguments that would contribute to real understanding of the issues. He makes comments designed to confuse the issue and divert the conversation to non-productive ones, which I suppose is “intelligent” if that is what you want to achieve.

        He doesn’t want those who read the linked article to realize that those dubious assertions made there are a diversion from the main truth that keeps this economy from recovery: the lack of demand for the products the “job creators” want tax relief for. That way they continue to make their previous income without increasing sales or doing any “job creation.”

        The rest of the population just has to struggle on with declining income and no extra money to buy the products that the “job creators” are making, so the “job creators” do not create those extra jobs.

        See:

        http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/11/opinion/our-gardenbrain-economy.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

        Nick Hanauer is a Venture Capitalist, making an eight-figure income, who recognizes that no entrepreneur will successfully build a company without a populace desiring and able to buy the product the entrepreneur wants to sell.

        • Gregg

          Supply comes first.

          • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

            Said the Dealer to the Junkie.

  • AC

    do the republicans have to continue standing behind Romney? has any party ever changed their nominee late in the game or is that not allowed? (sorry to seem ignorant, but i really don’t know….)

    • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

      Nothing ignorant about seeking knowledge.

      It’s allowed but there’s no way in he11 the Republican’ts are going to trade in their Cash Cow at this point.

  • Vasco DeGrabya

    No involvement in Syria beyond humanitarian aid.

  • http://grabida.com/ Doug in Virginia

    Tom,
    I’d love to hear your guests’ take on the GOP block of the Bring Jobs Home Act. The Republicans say Obama isn’t doing enough to create jobs, yet all but four GOP senators vote against the bill. Can they have it both ways?

    • http://grabida.com/ Doug in Virginia

      Small correction–the vote was to move it forward to debate. Only four Republicans voted in favor of the bill.

    • http://grabida.com/ Doug in Virginia

      Small correction–the vote was to move it forward to debate. Only four Republicans voted in favor of the bill.

    • notafeminista

      They probably realize the President isn’t serious about it anyway….

      http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0712/78637.html

      • Ray in VT

        I doubt that that has anything to do with it.  I think that it has more to do with the GOP’s willingness to oppose just about anything that the President is for.  Why else would the GOP oppose a tax cut?  Isn’t that generally their magical cure for just about everything?

        • notafeminista

          You may be right.  What other solution might there be for the commission not having met in six months?

          • Ray in VT

            I don’t know.  Maybe they think that they’ve got it sorted out.  Maybe they know that they’ll get stonewalled by the GOP no matter what they put forward.  That’s a bit tongue in cheek, but only a bit.  My response was more of a response to the bill vote, though, not your link, which I did see below earlier.

        • Don_B1

          Since Romney is for taxing ONLY the profit made by corporations WITHIN the U.S., which would give a bonanza to U.S. companies to create jobs overseas, the Bring Jobs Home Act is against Republican policy.

  • WINSTON SMITH

    The Boy Scount’s decision to not allow GLBT persons to serve as scountmasters is a good decision.  First of all, the Boy Scouts desire to stand for what is morally right and decent in America, not to push an agenda of moral peverrsion.  Secondly, in this day and age when we read about Jerry Sanduskys and other sexual deviants and perverts, why would we want to leave the fox guarding the henhouse?  Groups like the Man Boy Love Association prey on innocent minors (“try it, you might like it”)  It will only be a matter of time before some gay guy or lesbian woman seeking a thrill will violate a youngster with aresulting ruined life and multi-million dollar lawsuit against the boy scouts.  With this decision, the boy scouts are one of the few groups showing some common sense in the U.S.  Politically incorrect and non-tolerant, but totally logical and reasonable.  That is why GLBT groups want to force this issue and shut them down as well as anything else that is decent in this country.

    • Ray in VT

      Congratulations on continuing to push the absurd notion that all homosexuals are child molesters and all child molesters are homosexuals.  Last I checked, Jerry Sandusky has been married to a woman for 45 years.  How would you suggest filtering out pedophiles like him?  By their looks?  If it was that simple, then it would have been done already.  There’s a difference between a gay man and a child molester.  Some will be both, but there are plenty of child molesters who are straight.

      • WINSTON SMITH

        The risk is of course higher that a gay person will attempt a sexual encounter with someone of the same sex, regardless of their age, than a person that is heterosexual.  No guarantees, but certainly lower percentage of risk.  Secondly, homosexuality is a moral perversion that should be discouraged.  Our society’s march toward the abyss in treating it as a normal lifestyle choice doesn’t change that.  The boy scouts are simply upholding that eternal truth by not allowing GLBT individuals to be involved.  

        • Ray in VT

          I don’t know about your first point.  Your assumption seems to be that everyone is a potential child molester, which is true as an abstract point.  Will people have same sex attraction occasionally molest a child?  Sure.  Will heterosexuals do that?  Sure.  I think that it comes down to vetting a person as an individual, and not discriminating against them based upon one particular characteristic.

          Secondly, I totally disagree with your assertion that homosexuality is a “moral perversion”.  It exists now, as it always has, and I think that it is a normal variation in the human condition.  You may see denial of this and the outright advocacy of discrimination as a virtuous “eternal truth”, but I certainly do not.

        • Don_B1

          First homosexuality is definitely NOT a choice! It is a combination of genetic and environmental factors that create that “orientation” usually in early childhood, when the child “knows” it is “different” from others but not why. This confusion causes great distress to that child and leads to “acting out” that a more caring society could lessen.

          The statistics show that few child molesters are homosexuals, possibly because they have more compassion for children knowing the difficulties they had in their childhood and how children can be abused and thus have no desire to inflict harm on innocents.

      • getthefactsstraight

        Most, in fact, most child molesters are straight.

    • get the facts straight

      This is so insulting. Sexual orientation and pedophilia are different. LGBT people as a group are no more likely to molest children than heterosexuals. In fact, Sandusky was NOT homosexual. In fact, most male molesters of boys and girls are heterosexual. Most are KNOWN to the children who are violated — and are their FATHERS, stepfathers, uncles, etc. So to truly protect the henhouse shouldn’t we keep those most likely to harm children away from them?

  • AC

    i hope we don’t have to go to movie theaters shoeless now….

    • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

      Would you like a mandatory strip-search with your pop corn miss? lol

      • AC

        only if the popcorn price comes w/o the 600% mark-up thank you….

        • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

          lol

          Without the 600% mark-up? That’s how they make their money silly rabbit. Hey! Wait a minute! Did you just say that a mandatory strip search would be acceptable if your pop-corn didn’t cost twenty bucks? Hmmmmmmm…

          I’m just picking at you, thanks for the laugh!

          :’)

  • JJJimmmanyC

    HSBC — abetting terrorist, and drug lords, not to mention Barclays bringing about the instability that helped produce the perfect storm in 08 in order to profit from clearly illegal manipulations.
    A bunch of pompous privileged British as*holes and their American cronies in NY, screwing over everyone, diverting the interest you should have been making on savings and money-markets into their own pockets — for decades, and the Republican sycophants on this blog want to talk about Obama making excuses because Bush handed him a bag of burning sh%t and he didn’t turn it into shinola in three years. Does the expression “compulsive personality disorder” mean anything to you?  Or are the details of just how the one percent are screw&ng the pooch too boring or too complex?  Or perhaps they are just not on the menu of “what to think about” that you are programmed with by your corporate puppet-masters?

    It is indeed a Banksta’s Paradise. 

    ComptonValuer wrote:
    “Here is the time line of the modern corruption of our republic.

    Before WW ONE:
    The German’s decide to build a railroad into the oil fields of the middle east, and are granted massive mineral rights along the right of way.

    The British Empire goes to war against Germany, as it has against any country in the past that dared to compete against it’s millitarized corporations. This is couched in some nonsense about an arch duke and other disinformation, but they had already made the first moves in northern Africa against German competition.

    Germany and her allies fight the British and French and Russians to a standstill in Europe.

    The Russian Revolution takes place and Russia pulls out of the war.

    Over a hundred and twenty German divisions are freed up to be sent to the western front.

    JP Morgan and friend realize they are about to loose the fortune they have invested in the British and French war effort.

    The newly invented means of influencing the public subconsiously are utilized by the bankers and gov via Freuds nephew Edward Bernaise to manipulate the antiwar public into a war that they want no part of.

    The Lusitania is loaded with millions of round of ammunition by JP Morgan, and it is allowed to sit and wait inside the waters the
    Germans declaired as a free fire zone, by Churchill, for an escort that never arrives, so that it will be sunk and Churchill can gain the aid of America to keep Britian from the karma due to it from it’s rape of the earth unarmed peoples.

    Realizing what a great job they did, the gov and one percent turn the power of subconsious propaganda first on the European population to make Wilson a hero, then on the American public to eventually create the Bankster paradise we now suffer.

    The British and French are unable to repay the war debts to American banks.  The debt is loaded onto the backs of the German people.  Whole industries are dismantled and moved into France.  The war reparations ruin Germany financially and because of this Hitler is able to rise to power.  Twenty years later the war continues, as Keynes said it would at the peace conference.

    This is how the destiny of America was diverted by the one percent and their toadys.  Only the begining, but the begining determines the course.  Keep the public distracted: striving after happiness through possessions, and dumb, gain total control of the mass media and create a zeitgeist from which few are able to catch a glimpse of reality.
    Call up down and associate it with primal urges and you have the right wing idiots who will stand and fight against their own best interests because nothing is going to get between them and their vision of nirvanna, which is: blindness to the dissonance between their stated beliefs and their feelings, a new car, mac-mansion, and if they ever make it, the privilege of indulging righteously in all the things that they publicly condemn.

    • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

      Wow, you just provided more information about the financial terrorism that has surfaced recently than On Point has provided in the past two weeks. Nice comment.

  • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

    The caller just said to ask the NRA what they’re going to do about it. I lmao

  • Guest

    Since these guys seem to do it for fame, one step toward reducing them might be to never make the name public.  Hard to do, but just name this guy “Jerk071912″ so that the fame is never his.

  • Raylaf

    My son and his wife are driving cross country to San Francisco from New York.  Six years in NY without incident and last night they decided to see the midnight show of Batman in Aurora and experienced a nightmare.  They were in the next theater at the 12:10 showing and were evacuated safely.

    • kelty

      Thank goodness they are alright!!!

  • SL

    Gun control for the masses is the same cure as shoeless travelers in airports and individual rights lost with phone and internet monitoring. We’ve got to stop killing outselves to protect ourselves. I refuse to be afraid of terrorists and I refuse to be afraid of crazy individuals hell bent on distruction.

  • jim

    The comedian Elaine Boosler(spelling?) use to tell a joke that’s appropriate here…..”These are the same people who use to be ax murderers, but at least the ax slowed them down.”

  • http://twitter.com/Astraspider Astraspider

    You last caller is emblematic of the hysteria going on *right now* in the right wing blogosphere, pre-fabricating an argument that “liberals” will use this episode to call for 2nd amendment roll-backs. It really short circuits any kind of of sober discussion.

  • spikethedog

    Here come the gun-grabbers out of the woodwork again. More people are killed in Afghanistan by explosive devices than by guns.
    But that won’t stop all the hand-wringing and moaning about guns in the USA.
    And now Obama wants to politicize it.
    Typical.

    • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

      And more people die in the US from accidents involving household furniture than they do from acts of terrorism.

      Blame Obama, right?

      Typical.

      • notafeminista

        Oh no no,  common knowledge tells us its President Bush’s fault, no?

        He crashed the economy, destroyed the levees, left Walter Reed Hospital in the dust, singlehandedly destroyed whatever confidence the Arabs/Middle East had in the US, imprisoned innocents without due process interminably, and is probably responsible for the heartbreak of psoriasis, and managed alllllllll of that while also being the stupidest man alive.

        Laughable.

        • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

          Wow, way to take a non-existent ball and run with it. Who said anything about W?

          The wicked flee when none pursue…

          • notafeminista

            *chuckle*

    • Brandstad

      More people die from gun violence in Chicago than soldiers in Iraq every week and Chicago isn’t gun friendly, so pretty much criminals are armed and the citizens are not!

  • counterpoint

    Dr. Paul Batalden said: “Every system is perfectly designed to get the results it gets.” So while horrified by this or any week’s news, I am not surprised. These things are facilitated. 

    This is true of the droughts — global climate change and industrial farming. 

    This is true of the mass shooting in Colorado — a violence-loving culture (case in point: the movie’s content), the easy availability of guns (legal and illegal). 

    This is true of the “campaign barbs” — the US American legacy of racism and xenophobia, and the predictable right/left polarization which includes challenging one another’s patriotism (particularly the right’s of the left’s).

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_HUHWX4TIAZRFNFYCWUE43OZDUQ 7LeagueBoots

    People are the issue, not the guns.  Without people guns don’t do anything.  We need better education, better vetting of purchasers, and enforcement of existing regulations.

    The focus on the firearms is a convent target, but completely fails to address the fact that there are bad and unbalanced people out there.  You don’t punish everyone for the actions of a few, that’s just ignorance and fear speaking.

    • JamesTKirk

       It’s not people OR guns, it’s bullets.  To be more precise it’s bullets that decelerate too rapidly in inconvenient locations.  Other than that — no problem.

  • SL

    The
    second amendment does not protect hunting. We can regulate and actually stop
    hunting if we choose to. There is no limit against banning hunting weapons.
    There is a constitutional protection for the individual right to own
    militaristic style weapons.

     

    The
    argument, “Why does someone need an automatic weapon to hunt”, holds absolutely
    no value.

  • Elizabeth in RI

    Exactly how does the 2nd amendment allow for ASSAULT weapons in the community?? You have the right to bear arms, but who needs an assault weapon if they aren’t in the military – the slippery slope argument takes away all application of common sense. The Right wants “common sense” to drive environmental and business regulation (as allowed under the Constitution), but why won’t they even consider it when it comes to guns??

    • Brandstad

      Would the lack of an assault weapon changed the colorado shooting?

      Probably not.  The shooter would have just used a different gun with a cllip. 

      The gun isn’t the problem, the crazy guy is the problem!  His own mother wasn’t surprised he did it!

      • notafeminista

        There was probably one of those “no gun” signs posted at every entrance.

    • notafeminista

      1)The “Right” knows what the “Left” means when it says have common sense about guns.  The “Left’s” definition of common sense about guns means no guns.  Because….

      2)No one can define what an “assault” weapon is.  Therefore the “Left” in its liberal and wise application of common sense for the rest of us, would remove all guns period.

  • TribalGuitars

    I’m all for the 2nd Amendment, but the Police Chiefs of America , and anyone that supports the 2nd Amendment but doesn’t think that it should be applied to any weapon and related items, need to start a concerted effort to press back against the NRA for some reasonable gun laws.  Does the avg citizen gun owner need ammo clips that hold that many rounds?    Can the gun show loophole be closed?  Can real background checks be done? 

  • Mike Card

    Guns don’t kill people, bullets kill people.  Regulate the sale of bullets!

    • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

      People kill People.

      Regarding bullets: Many make/pack their own.

  • JCC

    Although this is absolutely a tragedy, solely blaming guns will never stop this sort of thing from happening.

    We get rid of guns and then we get this:

    Mass stabbings in Tokyo -recently 17 stabbings in 3 minutes, 7 killed

    Osaka, Japan – janitor loses grip and kills 8 children and seriously wounds 17 others and 2 teachers.

    Look up recent mass killings in China, primarily hammers and knives.

    And lets not forget mis-diagnosed pharma deaths estimated at over 10,000 /yr, auto deaths at 30k/yr, etc. in this country alone.

    Get some perspective. Enforce the multiple laws we already have on the books. Stop the Banks from robbing thousands and causing mass depression across the world. Gun laws are the least of our problems when we are allowing the gutting of the entire Constitution on multiple levels.

    • BHA in Vermont

       It is a lot easier to kill a lot of people with a gun than with a knife. First and foremost, you have to get REALLY CLOSE to some to kill them with a knife, even if you are an expert knife throwing assassin.

      That distance gives people a bit more “guts” to take an action.  Would the guy in Colorado have gone into the theater armed only with a knife?

      I’m not saying people should not be allowed to own guns but there is a reasonable separation between hunting or home protection and assault weapons or long clips. No hunter should be out in the woods with a 33 round clip. If it takes more than 1 or 2 bullets, you need to get help learning HOW to hunt.

      As far as I am concerned:
      - Assault weapons should be illegal to sell or own.
      - Clips that hold more than the ‘standard’ 9 rounds should be illegal to sell or own.

      • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

        I don’t know if I’d go so far as to say they should be illegal to own but they should certainly be damn near impossible to obtain. That’s the real problem.

        As for the Knife Wielding maniac scenario he would be meat in a theater full of people, especially if I happened to be among them. You’re right, a false sense of security due to the weapon you’re wielding does not equate to courage.

  • neilinbrooklyn

    Does the gun nut who called earlier really think that someone with a hatchet could have killed 12 and injured 38 others?  2 or 3 at most in a comparable amount of time.  He would have been stopped or people would have had more of a chance to escape.

    • Brandstad

      The point is the fact that the gunman used a semi auto doesn’t change the fact that he would have done the same with a revolver.

      • Ray in VT

        Not necessarily.  He may have tried to do the same with a revolver, but even if he had had multiple revolvers and speed loaders, then there’s still that changing weapon and/or reloading time that could have caused a delay and allowed someone to act.

  • Julia

    From personal experience–One person does not build a business; it takes a TEAM of people and good timing. One person or possibly two lead the team, but don’t mistake the headlights for the entire car.

  • Tony

    Romney’s being properly vetted for the first time in national politics – in 2008, he missed it because McCain became the frontrunner fairly early on, and he didn’t get vetted in the primary season this year because his 2008 run meant he was treated as a known commodity alongside the flavor-of-the-month.

    • JGC

      Ah, memories of the 2008 Romney campaign… 
      My favorite Romney quotes of that time (from the Ask Mitt Anything event at Bettendorf, Iowa in response to a question about being possible Commander-in-Chief while  none of his five sons chose military service):”My sons are all adults and they’ve made their decisions about their careers and they have chosen not to serve in the military and active duty…I respect their decision in that regard. I also respect and value very highly those who make a decision to serve in the military.  I think we ought to show an outpouring of support (for them)…and one of the ways my sons are showing support for our nation is helping me get elected, because they think I’d be a great president.” 

  • pkyzivat

    The NRA is always blathering on about how the ability to carry handguns means citizens can protect themselves.

    So why didn’t a bunch of NRA people with guns take out this guy in the theater?

    • Brandstad

      Good point. 

      There are not enough NRA members with concealed carry permits in Colorado.

      Please everyone, join the NRA and get your concealed carry permit!

      • John in Amherst

         Asinine comment, Brandstad.  Had there been people pulling out there weapons and trying to return fire in a dark, smoke filled and crowded theater, do you think the body count would be lower??  First rule in hunting: have a clear and unambiguous view of your target.

        • TFRX

          I’m not going to claim much familiarity with the rules of hunting.

          But if you say one thing, and if Dick Cheney does another…

          • John in Amherst

             Actually, the first rule of hunting: never point a gun at another person, especially if you think it isn’t loaded.  other rules include don’t mix guns and alcohol, and don’t go hunting with assholes who don’t know & follow the rules, which pretty much insures I will never go on a hunting trip with Cheney (or his buddy Scalia)

          • TFRX

            I thought the first rule in hunting was “every gun is loaded and every safety is off” until one verifies otherwise.

            So many “first among equal” rules, sorta like when my radio crowd goes tower climbing.

  • SL

    President Obama did not say that individuals did not build their own businesses. He said that they did not build the infrastructure that enables their business to work. Romney is taking him out of context again.

    • Imran Nasrullah

      Exactly right. The infrastructure we build with public dollars serves as a platform which de-risks barriers to entry, for which private enterprise capitalizes on.  This type non-contextual rhetoric obfuscates the truth and is a disservice to democracy.  

  • Irene Moore

    Come on, Romney was born into it.

  • Michiganjf

    Mit Romney is the one who is insulting… lying and twisting words that couldn’t be more true when taken in their proper context.

    Mitt thinks voters are REALLY stupid, yet Republicans TRULY live up to his expectations and buy every fabrication and distortion, HOOK, LIE, AND STINKER!!

  • RolloMartins

    Steve Jobs built Apple? Where would Apple be without Steven Wozniak, I wonder? 

    • notafeminista

      No no…not where would Jobs have been without Wozniak, where would Jobs have been without I-35.  (Or the interstate highway of your choosing)

    • Mike Card

      Jobs got run out of Apple in the 80′s and nearly bankrupted the company before it finally got turned around–and the turn-around was hardly done single-handedly.

  • Ellen Dibble

    Remember Nanny-gate?  Yes, we care what our public servants do with their private money — or don’t do.

  • TFRX

    Glad that On Point played the whole clip of Obama’s speech.

    Diane Brady, what part of Mitt Romney lying his ass off part of “Romney jumping on that effectively”?

    Tom, it was very clear what the President meant. Don’t be such a public radio weenie. Jack is on this crap–42 times on Fox News with a full of shit edit job.

    • notafeminista

      It was very clear what the President meant.  That’s why the subsequent “clarification” is so laughable.

      • TFRX

        Yep. Spend your whole day with your head up your Foxhole and you won’t know what air smells like any longer.

        • notafeminista

          Hey its out there…you tell me why.   Not because FoxNews told them to, that’s for sure.

          Be snarky all you like dear, it doesn’t change anything

          • TFRX

            Your exact words, edited Fox style:

            “FoxNews” “is” “laughable”.

            Funny how editing works. Funny how Fox is so good at turning something clear into shit.

          • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

            Nice!

            The only Framers I admire are the ones who drafted the most important document in our nation’s history.

          • notafeminista

            You didn’t answer the question.  If the President’s statement was so clear, so transparent, so truthful so as not to be misunderstood by anyone, why is his staff out there “clarifying” it?

            PS:  I don’t know a television, thusly I do not watch FoxNews.  Nice dogwhistle though.

          • notafeminista

            “own”.   Editor at the beach today.

          • TFRX

            Because of yet another rightwing media shitstorm.

            Because a Dem has learned that the Beltway Inbreds are half in the bag to not be “too liberal” when Rush, Fox et al create a tornado of shit out of nothing.

            Because they’re fighting back rather than waiting for the media to get to the bottom of things.

          • notafeminista

            Lie.

          • TFRX

            Fox News is laughable. Thanks for admitting it.

          • notafeminista

            Quote me.  With a citation.

    • Guest

      If you accept the interpretation that President Obama was referring to infrastructure (an interpretation that is a stretch in my opinion) when he said “If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that.  Somebody else made that happen,” then what was the point?  Everything he mentioned is available to everyone; he might as well have said that you have the sky, oceans, and air that helped you along the way.  The primary thrust and overall point of both Obama’s opening sentences and Elizabeth Warren’s speech is:  if you’re successful, you owe us, and we want higher taxes.  In this same speech President Obama wants “the wealthy to pay a little bit more,” and Warren wants successful people to “take a hunk of that and pay forward.”  It’s as if they’ve forgotten that only successful people have paid the income taxes that support the infrastructure; nearly half of the country doesn’t pay any federal income tax at all.

      • TFRX

        It is not a stretch. That has a lot to do with how willing you are to be a purposeful ignorant.

        To quote someone who diagrams sentences for a living:

        “Antecedents can co-refer across sentence boundaries in English. They
        just can. (See what I did there?) Moreover, the nearest potential
        antecedent to a pronoun isn’t necessarily the actual antecedent.”

        • Guest

          Since so many people misunderstood President Obama’s speech, maybe he should begin his next speech with “The antecedents in this speech can co-refer across sentence boundaries.  Moreover, the nearest potential antecedent to a pronoun isn’t necessarily the actual antecedent.  I will provide you with a written copy of my speech so that you diagram the sentences to fully understand my meaning.”  I’m sure that will clear it up.

          • TFRX

            Nope. They’ve already fought back hard against the shitstorm of “journalism” from the right.

            And I won’t do your homework for you, purposeful ignorant.

      • John in Amherst

        I suggest you check the full news clip of the president’s remarks, and then compare that to FOX’s propaganda.
        Nearly half the country pays no federal taxes because they are in or near poverty (or, for a very few, they have accountants and tax shelters).  The top earners now control a larger percentage of wealth than at any time since the gilded age, and they are using their wealth to influence the political process to make sure it stays that way.  Maybe you have hopes of becoming a billionaire.  Maybe you are a billionaire.  I am not.  And my stock in trade is providing medical care to people the vast majority of whom are having a more and more difficult time affording it, because real wages have stagnated and the impoverished earn a lower real-dollar minimum wage than at any time since the 1950′s, and more and more companies choose not to provide coverage, and all while the rich keep getting richer.  Spare me the tears over taxing the only segment of the population that has money…      

        • Guest

          The tax system is broken and corrupt, and any attempt to equitably raise tax revenue without devising a fair tax system will likely prove futile.  In 2008, the IRS reported more than 1.5 million tax returns with income over $50,000 paid zero federal income tax, including more than 20,000 returns with income more than $100,000.  The total amount of income on these returns that paid zero tax?  A conservative estimate is $125 billion.  If these returns were subjected to a 15% tax rate, it would raise far more than the current proposal to raise the tax rate by 3% on the top 1% of tax returns.

          • Guest

            A real life example:  I know a man who sold his business for $50 million dollars.  A high-powered accountant came to him and said that for a fee of $1 million, he could structure the sale to save him the $10-$15 million dollars he would owe in income tax, all perfectly legal and legitimate.  He paid the fee and didn’t pay any income tax on the sale; the IRS audited the transaction and it passed their review.  Was it legal?  Yes.  Was it fair?  Not in my opinion.  As long as we have a tax system that abounds with special interest schemes and loopholes, changing tax rates doesn’t solve the problem.

      • TFRX

        Everyone not swalling from the rightwing pukefunnel knows what President Obama said.

        And stop flogging that meaningless crap about “skin in the game” for people who don’t pay Fed Inc Tax because they haven’t had a raise, statistically speaking, since the beginning of the Bush recovery.

        Tax rates for the rich are awfully low, historically speaking. They got a ten year break that will never pay for itself. Now we want things back to normal and not have the rich and their apologists whine about it.

        In other places with this kind of growing imbalance, the rich have to ride in armored limosines. Not that a couple percent of the top marginal tax rate can put a price on that kind of safety.

      • JGC

        Some folks have made a point today about the success of certain people from non-U.S. parentage who came of age in the U.S., and how that possibly contributed to their achievements. One of the main contributing factors could possibly be due to the benefits of existing U.S. infrastructure.  ”Infrastructure” means paved highways, and also clean water and proper sewage treatment, reliable electricity sources, better school systems, ample food at reasonable prices and the like all promoting education and health. 

        There are many types of taxes, and if someone is not in the tax bracket to pay federal taxes, they are probably paying state taxes or occupation taxes or property taxes or sales taxes or social security taxes or…anyway, there are many ways that citizens (and non-citizens) contribute to pay for the infrastructure that helps everyone. 

  • jim

    Hey Mr. Romney,
    Steve Jobs did NOT made Apple… he was the heart and soul… but it was Steve Wozniak.

    Ray Kroc did NOT made McDonalds… he was the heart and soul of the company… it was the McDonald’s brothers.

    You got it? stop being a crook of this great nation and reveal your tax returns. we want to know what you hid, especially your swiss account. 

    btw. this nation was built on taxes paid by our faithful citizens. We are not Greeks who prefer to constantly commit tax evasions.

    • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

      “We are not Greeks who prefer to constantly commit tax evasions.”

      That’s going a bit far, recent history says otherwise.

  • AC

    off the subject, but – isn’t steve jobs getting sued for stealing tech?
    (well, apple…)
    http://seekingalpha.com/article/624041-did-steve-jobs-steal-the-iphone-from-this-potential-30-stock

    • Mike Card

      There is an entire cottage industry of law firms whose sole reason for existing is to pursue lawsuits against technology companies–largely patent infringement or poaching employees possessing proprietary knowledge.

      These suits are rarely adjudicated.  The main purposes of the suits is to pay off lawyers’ student loans, finance their suburban homes, and to make them more attractive to potential trophy spouses.

      So the short answer to your question is, Yes.  However, so is every other tech company.

  • Carrie

    The state motto in Vermont is “Freedom and Unity” — we believe up here that you need BOTH — the freedom to do your own thing, and the unity that comes from working with each other and for each other. This motto is on our state flag — and in our bones. It should be the American motto!
    Carrie from Montpelier

  • Suzvt

    OMG!!! Bill and others are going to run to the phone so they can call in and defend and protect our “constitutional” rights? You people are so nauseating I want to scream! I would give up so much to save innocent lives. There’s no threat that no one can own a gun, but you selfish short sighted fools can’t even consider giving up your right to owning a whole arsenal of automatic weapons! A three month old child was injured, hopefully not mortally.Stop thinking about your own personal freedoms and give some thought to contributing some logical solutions to making this a better world. The NRA and tea party need to be exposed for the hypocritical, self absorbed paranoids that they are. We cannot tolerate their lies and propaganda that they perpetuate for their own personal selfishness, even if it costs the lives of innocent people, three months or whatever. Give me a break!   

  • NAV from Sutton, MA

    Lets be clear.  I didn’t hear the president vilify entrepreneurs.  He simply said that no one builds a business by themselves.  That they had help.  And the reward for that is the profits.  And a responsibility back to the community at large when you were fortunate enough have this opportunity.  And I do know about this, as I graduated from Babson College, MBA, which is the number one Entrepreneurial program in the nation (per US News).  Its the first thing you learn in an entrepreneurial class.  You succeed on ideas, effort, planning and luck!

    • notafeminista

      Let’s be clear.  Whose ideas, effort, planning and luck?

      • John in Amherst

         Luck favors those who are prepared – like with a society that provides infrastructure and an educated workforce.

        • notafeminista

          No, luck is just luck.  That’s why it’s called “luck”.  Otherwise it’s preparation.

          • John in Amherst

             So if the creative genius of Gates or Jobs had been endowed on a kid in the slums of Mumbai…….

          • notafeminista

            He’d be Dr. Alfredo Quinones.  (h/t jefe68)

          • JGC

            Not if President Mitt Romney had anything to do about that. 

          • notafeminista

            Ok, demonstrate how so.

          • JGC

            I am going to reply to this slightly above in your post beginning”Let’s be clear…” cuz I am under the Disqus squeeze and it is getting to be very difficult to breathe right now..

      • JGC

        (In reply to Dr. Alfredo Quinones comment):  I had to look up who Dr. Quinones is to see the connection to the “What if Gates or Jobs had been born in Mumbai” question. But I didn’t get quite enough information before I made my first reply to your comment. I implied President Romney would be the one to kick Alfredo Quinones (and any future Alfredo Quinones) out of the country, assuming he came to the U.S. illegally as a youngster and therefore could be a beneficiary of Obama’s “Dream-Act-Lite”, which would not be recognized under a Romney administration directive.  But Quinones jumped the fence when he was 19 years old, so now he is in adult mode; there are no provisions I see for a fence jumper older than 18 for a clear path to naturalization and citizenship under current INS. So both “President” Romney and President Obama would  have given the 19-year-old Alfredo Quinones the boot back to Mexico if he jumped the fence in recent times.

        But of course I recognize that Dr. Alfredo Quinones is a person contributing far more to humanity than just about any person on this site (self included).  So how does one recognize this potential at the young age when it is critical to be afforded opportunity for personal growth? 

        My thinking at the moment is Alfredo Quinones succeeded because he jumped the fence from Mexico to the U.S. at the right moment (1987) and completed his transition into adulthood, learning English and gaining admittance to great California schools of the day.  And what if Gates or Jobs had been born in Mumbai?  If it was in 1955 (their true birth years?) they perhaps would have been garbage sorters, because in many ways their futures would have been short-circuited (potentially brilliant minds trapped in slum conditions).  However, if they were to be born in Mumbai in 2055, they may be destined to be giants…  

        • notafeminista

          The point was…he did it himself.  He had teachers and employers and roads and bridges all along the way…none of which would have taken his tests for him, none of which would have completed his residency or his research for them and none of which brought him to the US in the first place.  He did it. 

          • JGC

            Yes, he made it all happen for himself while gratefully acknowledging all the help he found along the way to reach his goals, and now he is paying it forward through his hard work and inspiring story.  I agree he is an amazing U.S. citizen…now.

            But he wasn’t always a U.S. citizen, and something was missing in Mexico at the time, and lucky for all of us he found “it” in the United States. (Did Bush I or Clinton have an amnesty program? I don’t see how Quinones was able to apply for citizenship from inside the U.S. as an illegal alien…) Even though he was the same ambitious, striving person in Mexicali, he did not perceive his success formula to be found in Mexico  pre-1987. All of which did bring him to the U.S. in the first place. 

            But if he tried his journey north from Mexico today, he might be greeted by someone like Sheriff Arpaio and a 20-foot fence (a different sort of infrastructure expenditure).

             

  • Suzie in Newport

    Obama’s comment about the public support system that makes the accomplishments (and profits) of individual entrepreneurs possible was brilliant, dispelling the myth that we act as absolute individuals, and pulling the veil of invisibility off of the res publica, the public “thing,” the commons. Leave it to the pundits on the show (except Jack Beattie) not to see the significance of Obama’s analysis, and instead to focus the conversation on how it plays “politically.” Sure, the political football game is important, but even more important is the fate of our country and the need for efficacious government involvement in saving our crumbling country.

  • CAGW

    Perhaps it’s time to revive this quote from one of the settlers as we filter thru the mire that has become politics…John Winthrop’s founding vision for Massachusetts as expressed in his speech to his fellow colonists as they sailed toward a new beginning: “We must,” he said, “be knit together in this work as one man [and] be willing to abridge ourselves of superfluities, for the supply of others’necessities. We must delight in each other, make others’ condition our own, rejoice together, mourn together, labor together … as members of the same body. So shall we keep the unity of spirit in the bond of peace…. For we must consider that we shall be as a city upon a hill. The eyes of all people are upon us.”

    • Bluejay2fly

      His speech was to people of the same race, same religion, same sexual preference, and same mentality. It’s much more difficult in today’s diverse Massachusetts but that ideal is great and still stands as something worth striving towards. 

  • Ellen Dibble

    The caller who said skip the semi-automatic weapons; we have a Second Amendment right.  What about pipe bombs?

    What indeed?  I didn’t realize pipe bombs are legal.  I think to myself of the guys I know who fool around with creating explosives, and I’m thinking it’s tough to explain to a young man, things might get out of hand, what about your friend with the wild streak, etc.  I’d rather just cite a law to him.

    As to semi-automatics, I’ll tell you why I’d want one.  What if I were in a movie theater and there were a Whole Row of people wielding semiautomatics and shooting down the audience?

    I’d want my handy semiautomatic to take down the whole row of maniacs, before I could call the police.

    • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

      You know guys who fool around with creating explosives? Just my opinion but it’s probably not wise to disclose such information publicly these days.

      • Ellen Dibble

        There are a number of these that I read about in the newspapers, and I try to put myself in the position of their parents, for instance.  And I am old enough to be able to refer back half a century, after which time…

        • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

          Nice save, I thought you were saying that you personally knew explosive creators (like you hung out with them or something). Unfortunately we have to watch what we say these days. It’s sad really.

    • Brandstad

      Also, if we dream of a world that had no Semi automatic weapons, would the shooter have still shot a lot of people in the theater?

      I would suspect the answer is yes. He would have had two pistils with a dozen clips and the result wouldn’t have been much different.

      This tragedy is no excuse for good people to loose freedoms.

      • John in Amherst

         The “freedom” to own weapons designed for military use, i.e.: for killing as many people as quickly as possible?  There is a point where the “freedom to bear arms” becomes the “freedom” to rain terror down on the innocent.  And please spare the rhetoric about right-to-carry.  If others in the theater were armed and had begun shooting back in the dark and smoke, the casualty count would only have gone up.  Where DO you draw the line?  Grenades?  artillery? WMDs?

        • Peter

          People like myself appreciate the weapon as a work of art. It is designed and therefore has an aesthetic. Furthermore, if 1,200 drunk drivers kill people do we ban alcohol? Countries with seriously restrictive gun laws still have shootings, Norway.

          • John in Amherst

             I hunt.  I have an aesthetic appreciation for the engineering and machining that goes into a fine gun.  I also realize that there are a lot of weapons that don’t belong in the public domain where any nut job can get them and commit atrocities.

      • Bluejay2fly

        So true, there were no guns in Oklahoma City. Also, look at Norway you practically need a permit to walk outside.

      • Ellen Dibble

        From the Washington Post a half hour ago, article by Horwitz and Wilgoren:  ”Investigators said they believe the gunman acted alone and was armed with a shotgun, an assault rifle and two handguns. He offered no resistance when he was arrested, police said. Investigators recovered one rifle, a handgun and the gas mask. Federal authorities are trying to trace the guns to figure out where they came from.”  
             Is a rifle an assault rifle?  I don’t know.  See:  
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/colorado-shooter-identified-as-james-holmes-24/2012/07/20/gJQAWkdrxW_story.html 

  • Thinkin15

    Romney (10-16-12) touting money from the government and the help it can give: “I am big believer in getting money where the money is,” Romney says on the video, “The money is in Washington.” “I want to go after every grant, every project, every department in Washington to assure that we are taking advantage of economic development opportunities,” Romney tells the group. And on his Olympic success: “We actually received over $410 million from the federal government for the Olympic games. That is a huge increase over anything ever done before and we did that by going after every agency of government,” he says.

    • BHA in Vermont

       I read that earlier today. Pretty funny isn’t it? The govt shouldn’t collect taxes and spend money … unless it is for something “I” want. The problem is all the “I”s want different things.  Lobby the heck out of the federal representatives to get money for “YOUR” project because above all others, “YOURS” is IMPORTANT and deserves the support of tax money.

      • Thinkin15

         I hope that Obama uses those Romney quotes in an ad. Romney will whine and say “that’s not fair to use my words in context against me!”

  • Imran Nasrullah

    Exactly right. The infrastructure we build with public dollars serves as a platform which de-risks barriers to entry, for which private enterprise capitalizes on.  This type non-contextual rhetoric obfuscates the truth and is a disservice to democracy. 
    Also, successful people have rarely done things entirely on their own; they have been pulled along by financiers, mentors, school/universities, networks of people.  Romney ignores the fact that all businesses thrive in networks that create pull.  The disenfranchised are on the low end of the network – question is how do we pull people with potential through the network to the strong side.

  • Spirit17of76

    I am so tired of business people bragging about their own genius and importance instead of crediting the hard work, and creative contributions of their employees.  That is what I find really insulting.

    • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

      Wasn’t pride one of the biggies in the List-O-Sins?

  • Morgan

    This is a joke.  We have a one-party political system in this country.  They are all the rich elite, Obama included.  Its all politics, and they are all snakes.

  • Stacey

    but if Romney is saying that hard work is the answer, then isnt he saying that most Americans arent working very hard? I mean, if success is earned then hard times are earned. Why does Mitt Romney hate Americans?

    • CAGW

      I don’t think he hates Americans (he is one), but he does care about money and his own accomplishments more. 

    • http://grabida.com/ Doug in Virginia

      Awesome! What a way to twist it around. Ever thought of becoming a political puindit?

  • Robert

    the colorado shooting suspect is confirmed by FBI as being 24 year James Holmes. His mother in San Diego contacted  the press to state that it sounded like something he would do. 

    • Brandstad

      I saw a report that James Holmes was a member of Occupy Wall Street and he picked this movie because its vilan is an Occupy Wall Street member.

      • Ray in VT

         What was the source of that report?  So far the details that I’ve seen are pretty basic: name, age, ethnicity, weight, height.

        • Robert

           the police and the FBI announced it.

          • Ray in VT

            Where?  I searched some news articles, but I didn’t see any announcements about that in the articles that I found.

  • Jemimah

    This is such a great example of all of us hearing what we want to hear.  To me, what Obama said is that none of us is an island and we all have to work together.  The anti-Obama crowd apparently heard something else. Personal initiative doesn’t mean that that one person carries out his/her goals in a vacuum.  This is impossibly frustrating!

    • John in Amherst

       ”A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest”  – from “the boxer” by simon & garfunkle

      • notafeminista

        “I am a rock, I am an island, for a rock feels no pain and and island never cries”

        Simon and Garfunkel

        Gotta love interpretation hm?

        • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

          Evidently, based on the discussion thus far today, the most beneficial thing you could provide the rest of us here with would be The Sound Of Silence.

          • notafeminista

            Signs signs everywhere a sign  do this don’t do that, don’t you read the signs?

            Only want to talk to people with whom you agree?

          • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

            No, I want to talk to everyone, especially those I don’t agree with. It frequently gets me into trouble though.

          • notafeminista

            Maybe so, but silence makes it difficult…

          • JGC

            Oh my, notafeminista, “you’re my favorite waste of time” (Marshall Crenshaw)

  • Robert

     http://www.washingtonpost.com/colorado-shooter-identified-as-james-holmes-24/2012/07/20/gJQAWkdrxW_story.html

  • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

    What if Jonas Salk and Marie Curie had thought their primary drive and ambition should be a desire to pile up a mountain of cash and proclaim themselves as Job Creator Supreme?

  • MK

    This is a joke.  We have a one-party political system in this country.  They are all the rich elite, Obama included.  Its all politics, and they are all snakes.

    • Thinkin15

       Oligarchy= The New Republican Party

  • CAGW

    Ann Romney, “He’s given you all the information YOU PEOPLE need to know. The election won’t depend on that (the tax history).” Oh, really. You think? Who’s YOU PEOPLE?…the American citizens who are going to vote him in? Trust…is a sticky wicket….remember that.

    • BHA in Vermont

       Entitlement doesn’t understand that concept.

    • Ellen Dibble

      Maybe the idea is that if you say something is so enough times, maybe it’ll come true.  It’s not exactly a commitment to exactness or transparency, and probably nobody is 100 percent exact and transparent.  But apparently the Romney tax returns are not the kind of thin thing that — maybe it reveals all the ways the rich do find loopholes.  Which is what the Congress keeps saying, Republican and Democrat, is what needs to be “fixed.”

      So I’d ask this Republican candidate — who has specifically said that why wouldn’t he take advantage of everything that is out there to take advantage of — which of these loopholes that you have used would you favor eradicating? That would be the beginning of a really useful discussion.

      • Guest

        If I were Romney I’d release the returns, but I can understand his reticence.  Romney is a successful and wealthy man, and his tax returns are too complicated for the average person to understand.  I’ve read ridiculous conspiracy theories that he has hundreds of worldwide trusts when in fact he doesn’t; that he is engaged in a scheme to not report foreign income when it’s clearly reported in his return; that he’s making tax decisions based on being elected president and changing the tax rates; that there surely must have been some dark nefarious contrivance to achieve the balance in his IRA account, and on and on.  The speculations have been absurd, and releasing more returns will likely spawn more preposterous conjecture.

        • JGC

          Sure, I can understand his reticence because he and Ann (joint return) have something to hide.  I would say these speculations are far less preposterous than any of the continuing speculations about Obama’s birth certificate 4 years on.

          “Too complicated for the average person to understand”  The IRS does not care if their tax code is too complicated for me to understand.  They expect me to understand it, or hire someone to understand it for me.   The Romneys have access to the best tax accountants and lawyers our money can buy.  

          Show us the tax returns.     
            

          • JGC

            And if you think there is not some dark contrivance to achieve the balance of $20-million to $100-million in the Romney IRAs, well folks out there in the NPR diaspora, you tell us HOW MANY OF YOU have 8 or 9 figure balances in your IRAs assuming you were able to contribute the $2250 sum each year like those could in the 1980′s and !990′s  ($2000 per working person plus $250 for “non-working” spouse).   Really, NPR diaspora, take a look at your most recent IRA statement and see if you have done so well over the past 10 to 30 years that your contributions have increase in value by 10-fold or 100-fold. Or more, in the case of the Romneys.

            I am not saying whatever the Romney tax posse did was not legal; for sure it is legal. It is legal because even though the Individual Retirement Accounts were formulated in the 1970s as a way of promoting the concept of the Little People saving for their own retirement, as usual it got taken over by the lobbyist upper-echelon  who tweaked the IRA contribution scheme over the decades to favor themselves at the expense of the middle class.

            Don’t believe me?  Let’s ask Mitt.

          • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

            Legality separated itself from Ethical in the realm of finances a while back. Nice comment.

          • Guest

            Try to pay closer attention.  For many people, the balance in an IRA account comes from rollovers of other pension plans, not yearly $2,250 contributions.  Those blue collar workers I mentioned who have IRA accounts of a million dollars or more never made a $2,250 annual contribution; they rolled over the balance from their company pension plan into an IRA account.  I think it’s likely that Romney did the same thing.
             

            I have no doubt that Romney completely understands his tax return.  When I wrote “too complicated for the average person to understand” I was referring to people like you, and you have proven that my statement is true.

          • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

            I don’t desire or need to see the Tax Returns, anyone who’s been trying to objectively pay attention to Romney since he Single-Handedly “Saved The Olympics” already knows the deal.

  • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

    Almost three quarters of the way through the show and no mention of LIBOR or HSBC. You continue to impress On Point.

    I’m shocked, shocked I tell you!

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

      HSBC was definitely a big issue this week – if someone help fund terrorists, they would be implicated as terrorists – and isn’t this exactly what HSBC has done? But all they’ve had to do is say “oh – we’re sorry” and it’s old news.

    • random

      For what its worth, there was a whole On Point show on LIBOR/HSBC, just 2 days back. Too many issues to cover in 1 hour. Perhaps “This week in News” should be a 2 hour segment.

      • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

        That show primarily revolved around the HSBC atrocities and I was underwhelmed to say the least. Financial impropriety is the reason that globally we are literally on the brink of self-destruction. My point was only that in the past three Week In News discussions here at On Point, the most relevant issues receive the least coverage. Thanks for pointing out the show though.

  • http://twitter.com/Astraspider Astraspider

    Harwood, you’re full of it. To the GOP elites, we’re *all* “you people”.

    • JGC

      So true!  This brings to mind Leona Helmsley’s statement to her maid, “We don’t pay taxes.  Only the little people pay taxes.”

      Ann and Mitt, are you trying to hide something from “the little people” by refusing to release your tax returns?

  • Jim

    Let’s hope some reporter looks up the biographies of all the successful men Romney named and sees whether any of them failed to credit a teacher or a family member or a mentor or America itself for major contribution to their success. 

    The idea that Obama shouldn’t mention our interdependence on each other and dependence on government because there is an individualist myth merely shows how dumb we think our voters are.

    • John in Amherst

       I’m with you Jim.  BUT It is a serious political miscalculation to underestimate the reverence a lot of Americans have for the lone, gun-toting, self-made, standing-tall-against-the-world cowboy archetype.  For every Woody Guthrie or John Steinbeck reminding us we are in this together, and can achieve great things through cooperation and determination, there is a John Wayne or Ronald Regan acting out the opposite roll.

  • Ellen Dibble

    American success.  I think the clip you played had  Sununu, Romney surrogate, saying that American git-go has made us the “enemy of the world.”  This seems to me to nail it.   Some American success is pretty destructive.  Case in point:  certain banks and bankers.  Case in point:  certain environmentally-insensitive corporations.  I could go on.
        It used to be that success meant being able to create great good for your community.  In those days “success” meant maybe $100,000 a year, or its equivalent, which you managed in a careful way that others could evaluate and aspire to.  Nowadays, there is a kind of success that is the financial equivalent of obesity, and really can’t be mobilized (all that fat) in an admirable way.

  • Jon Van Kuiken

    Is Ms. Brady listening to what she is saying? The president did NOT attempt to tear down any achievements made by entrepreneurs and businesses. He was only attempting to remind people that without the government providing the infrastructure that we all rely on, none of the businesses/people she (and Mr. Romney) falsely claim the president insulted would be successful. ie: Apple would have no business if there were no internet. If she does not remember, the internet was developed by ARPA as the ARPAnet, etc, etc.
    Get real! 

    • notafeminista

      Which would be a whole lot more believable if there wasn’t a concerted, homogenous effort by administration and campaign staff to “clarify” the statement.

      • Ray in VT

        It’s merely a response to the concerted, homogenous effort by the GOP and Fox News to portray the comments in an out of context light.

        • notafeminista

          Actually neither did.  Mr. Romney did…and he’s right.  If the President meant otherwise, there should have been no confusion.  He is after all, the best orator the US has seen in a long time.  

          • Ray in VT

            Yeah, I’m sure that both Mr. Romney and Fox have given the whole context of the statement.  I wonder where Fox starts playing the clip.  I’m willing to bet that it doesn’t include the previous 10-15 seconds which put that one phrase within the greater context of his statement.  I didn’t have any confusion as to his statement, but, then again, I’m not looking to take little snippets of his words in order to misconstrue his greater meaning.

          • notafeminista

            The context in its entirety is readily available.  Why not post it here for discussion?

          • Ray in VT

            “If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some
            help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped
            to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed
            you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a
            business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The
            Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the
            Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.”The
            point is, when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual
            initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some
            things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean,
            imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard
            way to organize fighting fires.”

            Seems clear to me.  I think that he is referring to the roads and bridges and the things that we do collectively.

          • notafeminista

            It does.  “If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.”  Crystal.

            For the record, the internet was originally a defense tool, not a market for business from which to profit.

          • Ray in VT

            Well, I think that you’re reading it how you want to, and if that’s what you want to do, then fine.  I don’t really care.  I also know that the Internet came out of a DOD project.

          • notafeminista

            It did.  As I stated above.   The internet wasn’t invented for people to make money off of.

          • TFRX

            Any time you wanna put up a full quote, you hack.

          • notafeminista

            I’m not the one who’s quibbling about context liar.

          • notafeminista

            And you didn’t even wait for a response.  The dissembling began before I posted.

            Very telling.

          • Ray in VT

            What?  I was scrolling down, saw your comment and then went and found the text.  I just did what you asked.  How can you criticize that?

          • RolloMartins

            Pretty sure you’ve see the clips and the blogs, all including this one phrase: ”
             “If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.” For your reading pleasure this came from 
            http://www.patheos.com/blogs/bristolpalin/2012/07/i-built-this-mr-president/ but you could find in in umpteen other sources. Context is important. Steve Jobs would be nothing w/o Steven Wozniak, Microsoft, the internet, and others.

          • notafeminista

            Right, because his genius was one-tracked.  No possible way it would have just found another outlet.

          • kelty

            “If you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, “Well, it must be ’cause I was just so smart.” There are a lot of smart people out there. “It must be because I worked harder than everybody else.” Let me tell you something: There are a whole bunch of hard-working people out there.If you are successful somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet, so then all the companies could make money off the Internet. The point is, is that, when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.”
            We succeed because of our own individual initiative, but also with the help from the collective American experience. Gee, I don’t know - this seems pretty crystal clear as long as you don’t view it through the cloud of hatred.

          • notafeminista

            Hard working people do not work hard equally.  Think before you respond.

          • Denise

             Lame.

      • jimino

        I agree it’s a shame that so many people are ignorant or illiterate that they don’t understand the plain words, but that’s what happens when a significant portion of your electorate is literally brainwashed.  He probably felt it impolitic to just say “if you’re too lazy to find out what I actually said or too stupid to understand a multi-sentence communication in plain English, then trying to explain it to you would be a waste of time.”

        • notafeminista

          It’s a greater shame that the Left honestly believes that people think/believe/worship they way they do because they’re brainwashed.

          What a dim view of humanity.

  • Robert

    What are you talking about?? Anne Romney clearly stated the words “you people” when whining about having to give over tax returns. For the record, Mitt only released part of one year’s tax returns.  There are a lot of documents missing.

    • CAGW

      I keep thinking about her $1000 t-shirt. ;)

      • Robert

         and her horse.

      • Guest

        I worry less about how the Romneys spend their own money than about how the Obamas spend the pubic’s money.  In the worst financial downturn since the depression, does it send the right message to take an $80,000 weekend in Aspen, $450,000+ vacation in Spain, $400,000 trip to South Africa and Botswana, and hide the cost of sending the first daughter and twelve of her friends to Mexico?

        • TFRX

          Boo hucking foo, and the horse Ann Romney danced in on.

          Nobody gives a crap about Presidential vacations in the mainstream press unless Democrats take them. And this ain’t the mainstream press.

          • Guest

            Nobody but Democrats give a crap about blouses or horses, and only if its Republicans who own them.

          • notafeminista

            Well that’s just an outright lie and you know it.

          • TFRX

            For Ronald Reagan it was “The man’s earned a vacation, don’t quibble.” On the NYTimes.

            For Bill Clinton, it was “Why Martha’s Vineyard? Why not a swing state?”

          • notafeminista

            And for President GW Bush?  You lied.  Baldfacedly so. Stop it.

          • TFRX

            For all the “manly man clearing brush at the ranch” shit we were spoonfed by the “liberal media” about Shrub?

            I was being polite and not going for the easy target your side has provided.

          • notafeminista

            No.  You lied.

  • TribalGuitars

     Obama would do well to remind people that he wasn’t born with a platinum spoon. He’d also do well to remind people that some of the people (and he should name them)  that “did it on their own” had venture capitalists behind them, or the SBA; or that the TVA, which brought jobs and prosperity to a large region of the US, that was impoverished for a great many, was a government program; or that our interstate highway system was a government project based on a European system that Ike brought back and put in place. 

    • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

      He shouldn’t have to remind us, it’s shameful that he needs to. He’s tried to stay above the fray and the self-congratulatory mindset of his opponents. Of course it hasn’t worked though. We don’t want the better man, we want the richer one.

      • notafeminista

        He’s done no such thing.  You would do well to remember that President Obama is a human and not a deity.

        • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

          I don’t believe in Deities, Fairies, Bogey Men, or Unicorns. That doesn’t mean they don’t exist for some though. I don’t think Obama is a saint by any stretch, however, compared to his opponents he looks pretty damn righteous sometimes. Sometimes is better than at no time.

          • notafeminista

            I don’t possibly see how on either count.

      • TribalGuitars

         He shouldn’t have to, but he does. Americans, particularly those of the Republican persuasion, are quick to forget the past. Like when Reagan raised taxes on the wealthiest, or that Dubya expanded the numbers of those that would qualify for social services like Food Stamps; or that Ike warned the country about the Military-Industrial Complex, or Nixon starting the EPA because rivers caught on fire and kids were eating lead, and he wanted universal health care for all.

    • William

       Yes, Obama attended those rotten public schools in Hawaii and went on to some 3rd tier colleges. How he paid for that education is still undetermined and what grades he earned is lost in time.

      • TFRX

        “Is it irresponsible to speculate?

        It is irresponsible not to.”

  • Stinky

    Almost all of the Republican presidential candidates were severly flawed.  I suspect Mitt is part of this group.  The best clown of the bunch.

    • notafeminista

      Is your implication that there is somehow a human being out there of any political affiliation without flaw?

      • Stinky

        Severly, not your average flaws.

      • Ray in VT

        A lot of people think that there was one about 2,000 years ago.  If they’re right, then that’s probably the only one.

  • jim

    Mr. Romney,

    John McCain and John Kerry do not have integrity issue….

    YOU DO!

    Your Swiss and Cayman Island accounts show you do!

    • notafeminista

      How much did Kerry pay on that yacht of his again?

      • JGC

        Perhaps as much as the Romneys paid for theirs.
        And how can you disparage American yacht-building businesses!  Rich people do us all a great service by buying American-built yachts! 

        • notafeminista

          I’m sure the yacht is solidly built.  I find amusing that a person belonging to the party of “you don’t pay your fair share” managed to avoid doing that very thing.

          • JGC

            Oh, but I do pay my fair share. I am getting ready to cash my 2011 U.S. tax refund check soon. The $38 should make a nice down payment on the purchase of a new yacht…

          • notafeminista

            A refund means one paid too much during the year…hence the term refund.  Ideally it should be “zero”.  Congratulations on coming so close though.

          • JGC

            Thanks! ;)

        • Worried for the country(MA)

           Kerry’s yacht was built in NEW ZEALAND, yet he evaded MA sales tax by porting it in Rhode Island.

          • JGC

            That stinks! I had no idea.  Well, John Kerry, you are definitely not getting my vote for the 2012 Presidential Election.  And I mean it, this time…

    • Guest

      Is having foreign income a sin?  If you’ve ever invested in a mutual fund, you have very likely had foreign investments.

      • JGC

        Having foreign income is not a sin.  Not reporting foreign income on the FBAR and not paying any required taxes on the foreign income are not sins, but both are illegal.   That is why I have to listen again to a couple of caller’s comments about the possibility of the Romneys rejigging their taxes in 2009 or 2010 concerning their foreign reporting, possibly in connection with a tax amnesty program.  If there is one thing Romney is good at, it is hedging his bets. That is possibly why he is also hedging on conversion of his $100-million IRA into a Roth IRA.   And these are reasons why it would be very useful for voters to be able to consider the full Romney tax record.

        • Guest

          I am looking at Romney’s 2010 tax return, and he disclosed in the tax return that he had foreign accounts and trusts.  The general consensus of the experts and pundits is that it is almost certain that Romney filed the separate FBAR Form TDF 90-22.1 that is not part of Form 1040, and I agree with them.  It wouldn’t be a very good scheme to avoid taxes by not reporting foreign income, but to tell the IRS you have the accounts.  Regarding the conversion of his IRA to a Roth, there is a Forbes article about it on their website.  IRA conversion to Roth IRA can be expensive; in Romney’s case, if his IRA is $20 million dollars (as reported in the Forbes article), it would have likely cost him $5 million or more to convert; if the IRA is worth $100 million as you say, figure a cost of $25 million to convert.  If the IRA account were mine, I’m not sure I would have made the conversion either.

          • JGC

            Trust but verify, my friend, as someone else blogged tonight.  Show us the money and maybe we will trust you, Gov. Romney.  

            I think maybe you and I have read the same Forbes article, but as is typical for right/left discussions, we are shading the points to highlight our personal views.  The reported IRA figure is as low as $20-millionish and as high as $102-million; either one being a stunning return on an IRA that normally could only take in $2000 per year for Mitt and $250 for Ann during those early years, or maybe he did the financial jujitsu to claim the Bankster’s Special Option of $30,000 per contribution year.

            But we will never know until they release their tax returns.

            Of course it does cost something to convert the IRA. The question is: what advantages might be gotten in return? Romney, so sly and preoccupied with the massaging of his investments that he cannot see how it annoys and angers the Little People, is holding back on converting his IRA, as was alluded to in Forbes, because he is making a calculated gamble that if he is elected President, he will lower the tax rate below the current 35% and that would be the ideal time to do his Roth IRA conversion, sometime after his swearing-in in January 2013; if he is not elected, he still has his window to consider doing a Roth before the tax rates are potentially hiked.

          • Guest

            For many people, the funds in an IRA account come from rollovers of pension plan funds, not year-to-year IRA contributions.  I personally know blue collar workers who have IRA accounts, funded by rollovers from company pension plans, with balances of a million dollars and more.  If I were in Romney’s financial position with his IRA account, part of the decision making process might be:  (1)  What are the chances that I will withdraw money from the IRA for financial need?  Probably nil; I have other money to live on.  I can leave the money in the IRA and pay zero tax now instead of paying millions to convert to a Roth. (2) What do I want to ultimately happen to my IRA?  Perhaps I want to donate the IRA to charity or have it pass to my children; in either case, it may not be the best option to convert to a Roth IRA.  (3)  What types of investments are in the IRA?  If the investments are not geared toward capital appreciation, the cost of a Roth conversion may not be worthwhile.  
             

            The decision to opt for a Roth conversion is complicated. In my opinion, it’s unlikely that Romney is basing his decision on getting elected president and convincing the Congress to change the tax rates so that he can save a couple of million dollars.

          • JGC

            It is unlikely, I agree.  For most people in that range of wealth, it would be unlikely. But I just have this impression that Romney can’t stop himself from sucking up every last morsel on the plate.  He has obviously been planning a run for the U.S. Presidency since he was a wee lad at Harvard, and yet he cannot forgo the possibility of a couple million more in his vast portfolio even though it might make his candidacy more problematic. I thought everything was handled in a blind trust; if so, he has not made his instructions clear that everything must be squeaky clean and parse-ready. 

            You know, there is some reason that he cannot hand over his tax returns pre-2010. There is something lurking in Mitt’s and Ann’s 2009 tax info, waiting to burst out like the Alien that sprouted from actor John Hurt’s body in the movie of that same name…

          • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

            Yeah, a blind trust handled by a loooooong time adviser. I’m certain they would never have any outside discussion about the hidden goodies within. I can’t remember whether it was on NPR or BBC but I heard a pretty straight forward discussion of “blind” trusts within the last couple of days. The only thing blind I could see regarding the majority of them is a willingness to trust the assumed objectivity and lack of interaction involved on their master’s part. And you’re on point about a glutton’s unwillingness to leave even one morsel on the plate, you don’t become obese due to an abundance of self-control. Holds true in both diet and wealth.

            Hear No Evil, See No Evil, Speak No Evil…

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

    On Romney and tax returns – he’s quick to point out McCain’s and Kerry’s limited release of returns. Not so quick to connect that and the fact that neither was elected.

  • BHA in Vermont

    Why do people think that a presidential candidate afraid to release their tax returns is going to be an honest and open president?

    I’m not going all conspiracy theory here but one has to wonder what is being hidden. We already know he is filthy rich.
    - Showing us that he is even more rich than we think isn’t going to change a vote.
    - Showing what a low tax rate he paid isn’t going to change a vote.

    If he wants to stand on principle, this isn’t the best one to choose.

    • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

      “Why do people think that a presidential candidate afraid to release their tax returns is going to be an honest and open president?”

      The same reason they think that a self-proclaimed Mormon who supports Global MoneyChangers is trustworthy. We believe what we want to believe, consequences be damned.

  • Sheryl Trainor

    The GOP and Fox News are still bringing up the birth certificate issue after the president has been in office for three years, so why let the tax issue die before we get to the election? It’s a legitimate question.

  • CAGW

    The longer he waits to release his records, the less transparent he looks…he looks like he’s hiding something, even if he actually isn’t. That doesn’t engender trust….then add the fact that he was an ass in MA other than the healthcare law and regional greenhouse gas collaborations with Canada. Ooops, I know…climate change…he doesn’t believe in it any more…or the really successful healthcare law. :]

    • William

       Obama refuses to release the records on Fast and Furious and the media is worried about old tax records. There seems to be a disconnect in what is important and what is just a political distraction.

  • Michiganjf

    Tom,

       “It seems like people ought to be able to know more about a presidential candidate’s finances??!!!”

    … I have to agree with the other posts here… you are getting to be a bit of a weenie when confronting Republican lies, distortions, and stupidities.

    Americans SHOULD DEFINITELY know about a presidential candidate’s finances!!!

  • Dan Cooper

    I’ve never understood the idea that the amount of tax a candidate pays hurts the candidate rather than the incumbent.  President Obama may have an oppositional congress, but he’s a lot closer to in-charge of the tax system than Mitt Romney at this point, if Romney and other billionaires are paying zip shouldn’t that look bad for the guy who’s making the rules, more so than the guy who’s following them?  I’m a CPA and as far as I know there’s no place on the tax return where you can cross out 15% and write in 35% because you feel morally obligated.  President Obama, in myriad areas, seems to pass judgment on the current system as if it weren’t the result of his own time in office.  Whether or not it’s his fault, he never answers the question ‘don’t we already know from the last four years that your leadership can’t fix any of this?’

    • CAGW

      Not if you have the kind of political system we do. Tax law has been set by multiple administrations and is really at the will of the Senate and House. The tax laws affecting Romney (or anyone else) may be compounding in policies over decades and may have been pushed through by Republican legislators. People keep forgetting that we have a multi-level government. That’s why they haven’t been able ego pass climate change legislations. He can propose legislative changes, but if it doesn’t pass the senate and house..it doesn’t go through. We like to blame one man…but, really…it’s all of them. And that goes back to working in a system versus a dictatorship.

      • CAGW

        ego=to

    • notafeminista

      Well.  He didn’t build it.

      • Dan Cooper

        Again, it’s missing the point.  President Obama is the President, no matter how limited that office may be.  Mitt Romney is a citizen.  Blaming the citizen rather than the President for how government policies affect the citizen is crazy.  President Obama is a lot more responsible for current tax law than any private citizen.  This is another example of the Obama support being unwilling to admit he seemed really neato but has been an unmitigated failure.  I voted for him, I had great hope, I can admit it was misplaced.   President Obama is a war-mongering patsy to Wall Street who has failed the environment and the rights of the accused.  I know it hurts to hear it, it hurts me to think about it, but he was either a fraud or the office has ruined him.  The shocking truth is he has extended and magnified the Bush presidency, the very thing he was elected to mitigate.  Is it all his fault?  Probably not, but the one thing we do know is what it’s like to have him in office – a nightmare.  I’m going to vote for Jill Stein, due to the electoral college my vote is wasted one way or the other, I might as well make a statement.  If you have any doubts about President Obama listen to the On Point about bankers from last week – the DOJ is completely under his control, you can’t blame congress for that one.

        • jimino

          I agree that Obama’s policies have in almost every important respect mirrored those that have long been advocated by the Republican party.  And for that he’s been branded a Marxist/socialist.   Alice in Wonderland would feel right at home in 2012 USA.

          • Dan Cooper

            Agreed – what that shows is he should have had some character and stuck to his principles, he’s not even gotten anything for selling out.  And the issues aren’t even hard to figure out – if you’ve sworn to uphold the constitution should you approve lifetime imprisonment without trial?  If that’s not wrong tell me what’s wrong.  We are at an Abraham Lincoln moment and instead we’ve got the invisible man.

          • notafeminista

            Ya gets what ya paid for.

          • notafeminista

            The most telling part of your post is “in almost every respect”….which of course means the ones that did not, and were the ones that got him branded a Marixist/Socialist.  “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.”  By the way, did you see there were a record number of those who need signed up last month?

            Lefties never ever figure out that people will ALWAYS figure out how to be part of the need rather than pat of the able.

          • notafeminista

            “part” – keyboard has sunblock on it.

          • jimino

            I agree it’s human nature.  Why, right here in Nebraska our Republican candidate for Senate gets over $100,000 in federal grazing rights that only a tiny fraction of well connected ranchers get.  That’s about 23 year’s worth of average welfare payments.  Some  are just better at getting it than others, I guess.  And a lot of those inexplicably see themselves as part of the able.  Crazy, isn’t it.

          • notafeminista

            “Well connected”  ..how so?

            And I’m wondering what the penalty for refusing is….  23 years of welfare payments for who? Somalians?  Not in this economy it ain’t.

          • notafeminista

            Nice dogwhistle though.  Admirable.

          • Mike Card
        • notafeminista

          It’s exactly the point.  When the President says “you didn’t build it”  he’s taking away responsibility for.   He can simply say he didn’t create the mess in Washington (or wherever) …as he so eloquently done on numerous occasions.

    • Worried for the country(MA)

       Notice that Nancy Pelosi now says the Romney tax return issue is a distraction and non-issue.  It is interesting that she flipped after someone in the press asked for her to disclose her returns since she is in leadership.

  • http://twitter.com/Astraspider Astraspider

    Your caller Christine was “on point” vis-a-vis corporate profits. She might have also added that state and municipal level cuts account for about 2 points in the unemployment levels. How easily it gets obfuscated that Bush’s modest employment gains were buoyed by substantive government hiring.

  • Guest

    Why isn’t Congress getting called out more in this campaign for stonewalling legislation?  The economy does not succeed or fail based on the president alone?

  • peter

    Semi Auto Ban    Nuts!
    The reason why people are so opposed to any assault weapons is two fold. Firstly, the USA is one of the world’s largest gun exporter so its a nice side business to sell some guns locally. Secondly, we are a jingoist culture. Hollywood makes movies glorifying gun violence and our military is the largest in the world with no close second. Is it any wonder why veterans or citizens would want military weapons with that kind of marketing pushing on them? Also, people like me know any regulation or restrictions on guns wind up being terrible laws. The Assault Weapons Ban did not prevent you from owning an AR 15 instead it couldn’t have a bayonet lug, flash hider, or 20 – 30 round mag. The first two aspects of the law did not impinge upon lethality it was purely cosmetic. The magazine restriction could easily be bypassed by taping 2 ten round mags together or illegally acquiring the 30 round mags. The ban was stupid and pointless and only punished those who wanted it for the aesthetic value (a reason why many want military guns in the first place). Finally, why don’t we focus our attention on why people go nuts in the first place. In a nation with tens of thousands of murders and suicides a year why is it the infrequent mass murder that grabs our attention? In reality, it is a problem nobody cares about and the few who do care, have no understanding of gun ownership and lobby for stupid, ineffective laws.

  • Dee

    Re Jack’s why go there with innovators roots…..

    Jack , People need to go there with the truth about their 
    innovations–just like in writng a book an author needs to 
    reference and credit his material and sources….

    That’s a big part of the conversation and actually Steve
    Jobs did acknowledge his in one of his first interviews 
    following the demise of health –with the author he asked 
    to write his book–as he spoke about his early dificulties
    with his relationship with Bill Gates and where their careers
    were at…

    He said Bill focused on writing software programs whereas 
    he focused on intergrating developing technologies and one 
    of the sources he also mention was what Xexor and other 
    companies were using…

    Please go back and listen to his interview with the man he asked to write his life story in a book. He was very honest 
    and up front with his frustrations and what he used from 
    others. 

    remember, Thomas Editson discovered the light Bulb was 
    based and the telephone were based on integrating other technologies at the time…. 

    So please don’t skip over this stuff –it is the reality .Dee

    P.S. Part of scholarship in society is adding to knowledge already in existance and adding additional questions for injury….That’s science and social research right  there….

  • JGC

    Concerning the commentator’s observation about only “kooks” hold suspicions about Muslims in U.S. government service:

    Hopefully now that her district in Minnesota has been redrawn, Kook-in-Chief Michelle Bachmann will be voted out of office by a lack of voting kook-enablers.

    • notafeminista

      Guess you haven’t seen William Webster’s report vis-a-vis Ft. Hood yet.

    • TFRX

      Bachmann, out of office?

      All her latest crap about the Muslims infiltrating the US govt isn’t even moving the needle to get her out of the Intelligence Committee.

      “Q: Would you consider taking her off the Intelligence Committee? Congresswoman Bachmann?

      JOHN BOEHNER: I don’t know that that’s related at all.”

      • notafeminista

        Hidal Nasan just an aberration.

        • JGC

          At last we agree on something!

      • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

        You got her (Bachmann) and Intelligence in the same sentence, that was awesome! lol

        Bachmann Intelligence. Now there’s an oxymoron if ever I heard one. She’s such a nut-job.

      • JGC

        Late night musings:  Why is Chock Full O’ Nuts Bachmann bringing up Muslims infiltrating the U.S. government at this particular moment? I haven’t heard the name of Huma Abejin mentioned in normal public news traffic in the past year or so (since the unfortunate Anthony Weiner crotch shot episode).  Rep.Bachmann  possibly 1.) is trying to erode Hilary Clinton’s chance at a 2016 presidential run (the company you keep!), 2.)has just paged through this week’s issue of People magazine in the supermarket checkout line (like I did this evening–wait, Michelle, was that you just ahead of me in the checkout line with the big cucumber?) and jealously spotted a glowing report on Huma or 3.)is a prejudiced fear-mongering former-Swiss-citizenship-applying Fox-trotting crazy person or 4.) all of the above. 

        • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

          3.) is my favorite, I’m still laughing. All of the above likely apply though.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ccosteno Carlos Costeno

    is this drought caused by the lack of rain wather.?

  • Dee

    Re: Caller from Vermonter –On Obama & Romney success

    Yes, Obama is an American success story –he pulled himself 
    by his boot straps where as Romney became a predator and Vulture Capitalist…forcing small and weaker companies into chapter 11 bankruptcy and collecting the premiums from the government…Screw Him! 

    Romney is the problem not the solution today in my book. 
    He has been feeding off tax payers revenue and Uncle Sam. 

    People will never accept him as President –no way. No 
    court order either…He represents an exploitation of the 
    system in my book. And he has “No Apology” either 

    How Shameful!…..Dee

  • Dee

    Re: Caller from Vermonter –On Obama & Romney success

    Yes, Obama is an American success story –he pulled himself 
    by his boot straps where as Romney became a predator and Vulture Capitalist…forcing small and weaker companies into chapter 11 bankruptcy and collecting the premiums from the government…Screw Him! 

    Romney is the problem not the solution today in my book. 
    He has been feeding off tax payers revenue and Uncle Sam. 

    People will never accept him as President –no way. No 
    court order either…He represents an exploitation of the 
    system in my book. And he has “No Apology” either 

    How Shameful!…..Dee

    • Still Here

      Obama doesn’t even know what the private sector is?  No wonder he believes the government is responsible for everything.  

    • Worried for the country(MA)

       Tell that to the pension funds and charitable endowments that Bain helped.

  • notafeminista

    Well.  This didn’t take long.  No journalism here, no actual reporting, just pure speculation.   See how badly the left needs it to fit the narrative ….

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/20/brian-ross-tea-party-colorado-shooting_n_1689471.html

    • Ray in VT

       It’s not surprising.  Didn’t the same thing happen with the Gabriel Giffords shooter?  I saw it stated below that this guy was linked to the Occupy movement, but I haven’t found any such announcement yet.  I think that this is part of the problem with the type of 24/7 cable news environment that we live in where people have to fill the void with something, so they just ramble on and flail about.

      • Gregg

        I think it goes beyond flailing, it’s intentional and relenting. But I can’t prove it. Glenn Beck is absolutely eviscerating Ross on the radio right now. It’s getting ugly but Ross has it coming. 

        • Ray in VT

          Would you be as outraged if he was falsely linked not to a group which you support but one which you oppose?  Hopefully the answer would be yes.  I can actually agree with Beck on this if he’s dumping on Ross for jumping the gun and going on speculation and not reported facts.  On the other hand, Beck shouldn’t get up too high on his horse.  I believe that he promoted the idea that the Arab Spring was backed by some sort of international communist-islamic theocratic alliance as a plot to bring down global capitalism.

          • Gregg

            Of course.

            I don’t think Beck did all that. All he does is feed the homeless.

      • notafeminista

        Sadly it’s not surprising on two counts..

        1)you’re right about the 24/7 news cycle.  It makes journalists sloppy.

        2)It was the Left both times.  How badly does the Left need to (either or both) 1)Think so badly of its fellow humans and/or 2)Paint right-wingers as frothing at the mouth crazy gun-owners.

        Talking about clinging bitterly.  God bless America.

        • Ray in VT

          It may be in part due to the perception of many that many right-wingers are frothing at the mouth gun nuts.  I know a few, but they’re not representative of the majority.  It plays into the stereotypes, like how liberals are hemp wearing, tree hugging hippies or something.  Again, I know a few of those.  What I also found interesting this morning was how a Texas Republican Congressman seemed to blame this on a society that attacks our Judeo-Christian heritage.  That’s also a stretch.

          When I moved to New York for grad school that was pretty much the view that they had there of Vermonters, and it was pretty weird.

          • notafeminista

            Seemed to or did.  And you’re right, it would be a stretch.   Good thing the NY grad school isn’t in the news business….like say….ABC.

          • Ray in VT

            I think that it was irresponsible for Ross to go without confirmation, and he should rightly be criticized for it.  I think that the news should have high standards, unlike, say, talk radio.  Remember when Breitbart died and Michael Savage suggested that it was an Obama administration hit?

            Also, it wasn’t people actually at the grad school.  I got those comments from people working at the company where I was working while I was in grad school.  It was really weird, because it was only about a 1.5 hour drive to the Vermont border, but they talked about the place like it was another country.  Of course, it didn’t help my case that my most recent employment prior to that was at a gun factory.

          • notafeminista

            Savage was wrong. 

            On the other hand, he seemed to be speaking with some knowledge from the source prior to his death, as opposed to ABC who just blatted out complete speculation with no substantiation whatsoever.

          • Ray in VT

            The purported exchange with Rep Louis Gohmert:

            You know what really gets me, as a Christian, is to see
            the ongoing attacks on Judeo-Christian beliefs, and then some senseless
            crazy act of a derelict takes place,” Rep. Gohmert lamented.Istook
            then reportedly interrupted to clarify for the audience that the
            motivations of alleged Aurora gunman James Holmes remains unknown. Rep.
            Gohmert conceded that fact but reportedly went on to suggest the
            shootings were “a terrorist act” that could have been avoided if the
            country hadn’t lost its faith in God.“People say … where was God
            in all of this?” Gohmert said. “We’ve threatened high school graduation
            participations, if they use God’s name, they’re going to be jailed … I
            mean that kind of stuff. Where was God? What have we done with God? We
            don’t want him around. I kind of like his protective hand being
            present.”

          • notafeminista

            Interesting point you bring up.  People do attack others for believing in God, we know this to be true. Some folks even say there is no God.  And yet it is generally these very people who demand to know where God is when something bad happens or how could God permit something bad to happen.   Says more about the atheists and the agnostics though than the believers I think.

            I do notice there is no direct quote from Rep Gohmert stating this happened because of a lack of faith in God.  Only that he is reported to have done so.   Given the history of the media, I think a direct quote might be more appropriate.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

      Bad information now is better for ratings than waiting for the truth. These corporations are not in the business of reporting news – they are in the business of making money.

  • Akilez Castillo

    iOnePoint”

    My prediction the Republican Vice-President is Condoleezza Rice

  • http://singingstring.org/ asongbird

    Hey, folks. I am really hopping mad.
    Listen. “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a
    free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be
    infringed.” The 2nd amendment language also includes the phrase, “A
    well regulated” REGULATION OF GUNS IS CONSTITUTIONAL. Let’s
    regulate them out of our lives. It’s time to grow up and stop playing
    cowboy. Stop whining about your “need” to have guns. NO ONE NEEDS
    ASSAULT RIFLES IN THE UNITED STATES. GROW UP. Our lives depend on it.

    PS: News flash. We’re not “militia” we’re “citizens,” and it’s time the sane people among us stood up and said “enough.”
     

    • TryAgain

       It is better to have a gun and not need it than to need one and not have it.
      I have personally saved my own life by carrying a concealed weapon.  I have also stopped a man from beating a woman mercilessly in the street.
      You have no ability to guarantee my safety an neither do the police.  Do not try to deprive me of the ability to protect myself.
      You have no understanding of what an assault weapon is and are just displaying your own ignorance.
      I bet your only familiarity with firearms if from hollywood and crime reports, you obviously don’t understand the need for citizens to protect themselves from both criminals and the government.

      This comment has been removed twice now.
      Prejudice a little bit OnPoint?

  • JboyDurant

    America is ill-served by her psychopaths.
    Here is a suggestion for any future mass murderers:
    Shoot bankers.

    • Ray in VT

      You’re gonna get your comment removed.  Just be prepared.  I very much dislike this kind of rhetoric, and I don’t think that it has a place in a decent public discussion.

      • CCRyder44

         I very much dislike censorship and the limitations that limited minds put on discussion.

        • Ray in VT

          So do I, although I do not think that the actions of the moderators on this are the acts of “limited minds”.  This site is a part of WBUR, and they get to set the rules as to what is or is not acceptable content.

          I don’t think that it’s acceptable to yell fire in a crowded theater or to call for the shooting of people/groups whom you dislike.

          • JGC

            There were a number of similar comments in the “Crooked Bankers” program.  That some people like these are openly discussing and inciting this sort of vigilante justice on public radio programs instead of their obscure blogs is a red flag in itself.  They feel safe to do so.  They do not feel responsibility for what may result from the opinions they broadcast.

          • Timboy3

             I guess the first American Revolution was also “vigilante justice”.

            I see your point though — I may disagree with your banksta crimes, but I will defend to the death your right to commit them.

            As Bugs would say, “What a maroon.”

          • Ray in VT

            I think that you’re way off.  I think that JGC is rights about some stuff there.  The sort of anonymity that is possible on the Internet can lead people to go way off of the rails.  I don’t think that he (?) is defending banking misconduct, just condemning the idea that the best recourse is to start shooting bankers.

          • BlueNoseSpan

            Think of the banksta problem as the Gordian Knot.  The experts will
            fail; their is no way to unravel the conspiracy and corruption that
            plague us.

            Think of a psychopath with a conscience as Alexander.

            One percent and their minions gone — problem solved.

        • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

          As do I, censorship is the reason I am reduced to being an interloper as opposed to a participant. I agree with Ray above though, that last statement is pretty damn close to incitement.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/CVJYSDNAF2RO4RHZACX776CJQU liane

        I agree with Ray. These comments are not funny.

        I think we need to start analyzing these mass shootings in a more sustained way. Once it happens, talk for a week about gun control, and then we lay back until the next one.

        Can we at least question why 50% of our population account for 0% of these tragedies? If all the shootings we have seen since Columbine were carried out by females, their gender would be the first consideration.

        We might also consider that in an earlier age these mass shooters may have committed suicide rather than have fired on a crowd.  Is our age of revealing everything publicly, including our rage, partly to blame?

        I also think we need to consider the age of the targets of most of these mass shootings. They are almost always the peers of the shooters. Of course a school shooting is going to target young people, but we might want  to ask why they are shooting the people closest to them in age.

        Lastly, are these mass shooters tested forsteroids? If he was a medical student, as is being reported, he may have had access to drugs.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/CVJYSDNAF2RO4RHZACX776CJQU liane

          BTW, steroid use among adolesent boys has doubled in the past 10 years. Is anyone checking into this? Would it show up on a police report?

        • ClaudeDeBake23

           Or like the comment that was removed implied, and as was the case with
          the Texas tower shootings which is the first of them that I can
          remember, the man had a tumor that was next to his amygdala, it could
          not be predicted and he could not really help it.  While it is true that
          testosterone is sometimes an issue, it is also largely testosterone
          that motivates the desire to bring criminal banksters and other bad
          actors to justice.  ON the other hand if you are going to have psychopaths (and there doesn’t seem to be anyway to guard against tumors or random brain injuries or childhood or battlefield trama) we may as well put them to good use.
          It is obvious that the government, law enforcement, and regulatory agencies are not going to do anything about the dismantling of our republic by a small number of people who are able to corrupt everything they touch because of the capital they have accumulated by dishonest means.  Maybe the psychopaths can succeed where all you more enlightened citizens have so monumentally failed.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/CVJYSDNAF2RO4RHZACX776CJQU liane

            So you are suggesting using someone with a tramatic brain injury or PTSD to your advantage to kill people you don’t like?

            What if someone did that to you?

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/CVJYSDNAF2RO4RHZACX776CJQU liane

            Do you know that Nazi doctors gave steroids to soldiers to make them better killers. Do you agree with that?

          • JamesC

             I was unaware of that but I doubt it was necessary since the entire German Army was already on meth as official policy. 
            Perhaps you are unaware of your own governments use of BZ in Vietnam.
            Your question of course has nothing at all to do with the subject of what jBoyDurant posted. Nothing.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/CVJYSDNAF2RO4RHZACX776CJQU liane

            It has everything to do with JboyDurant’s comment. Using somone’s disturbed mental state to get them to kill or  feeding them drugs to get them to kill is the same.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/CVJYSDNAF2RO4RHZACX776CJQU liane

            Make that  Claude Cloude’s comment- that is who I was responding too.

          • ClamTone

            You entirely miss the point and refuse to see it.
            These people are going to kill people anyway. No one is telling them too. He is only suggesting that they exercise some discernment in thier targets.

          • JamesC

             You are missing the entire point.  It is not to use them, but it is to suggest to them that since they are going to commit these acts of rage and insanity perhaps they should choose targets that basically deserve to die like Dexter does, instead of random victims or fellow student. This would be a big improvement, over killing random children and others in my book, even if it offends your senseless sensibilities.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/CVJYSDNAF2RO4RHZACX776CJQU liane

            “deserve to die?”

            do you believe you are God?

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/CVJYSDNAF2RO4RHZACX776CJQU liane

            When you decide who deserves to live or die, you are no better than the man who shot those people dead last night. The only difference is that you would have someone else do the dirty work.

          • ClemTone

             This is nonsense. Being able to discern evil in no way equates with murder.

          • GodAlmighty

            The bankstas that have corrupted our nation and destroyed the economy deserve top die.

          • jefe68

            Dexter is a fictional TV character. Killing anyone for any reason is an unlawful act in most cases. Who are you make judgments on who is to die or not. 

          • SorterOuter

             I can’t answer for James however I would like to ask you if perhaps Hitler should have been murdered before he put the “final solution” into effect. How about Baby Doc before he stated hanging tires filled with gasoline around peoples’ necks and setting them on fire? I guess you personally could not come to such a judgement.  I could and would. Now you will no doubt go from the general to the specific and tell me how these examples do not relate to the issue at hand. Of course this is after you have gone from the specific to the general because there is nothing really in your argument. I like you Jefe and always have, but surely if everyone thought that they had no ability to discern the enemies of humanity Tyrants would prevail everywhere.

          • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

            Tyrants don’t prevail everywhere? Thank goodness, I feel much better now.

          • JGC

            Reply to JamesC and SorterOuter:  How does anyone deliver Eternal Justice in the heat of the moment? Just ask Trevon Martin and George Zimmerman.  Well, at least one of them would be able to tell his side of the story.

          • ClaudeCloud

             Someone is doing it to us, all of us, but I guess it is just to abstract for you to understand the repercussions of the present banksta paradise and it’s very real bloody implications for the entire world.  You are in mulitutinous company of the mind controlled masses that are in the thrall of the corporate media.  You respond almost hysterically to a person who suggests that if psychopaths are going to kill people it would be better for everyone if they killed people who deserve to die, because it is visceral and you can imagine it, and are rightly repelled by the thought of such actions. Not so with the bankstas who are in shadows and behind wall after wall of insulation from “you people”.  Your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired.
            The only possible other side of that argument is that you think it is better for innocent random children and students to die.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/CVJYSDNAF2RO4RHZACX776CJQU liane

            I don’t think it is better for innocent children to die- but what you are arguing for is morally reprehensible on two counts- that you would use somebody who had PSTD or mental illness to kill somone you don’t like.  Judging by the arrogance you display in your posts- playing God must come naturally to you.

          • ClemTone

             You are still missing the point in your hysteria.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/CVJYSDNAF2RO4RHZACX776CJQU liane

            testerone is responsible for motivating people to bring criminals to justice? Really?

            I wonder why it’s always a woman depicted as holding the scales of justice.

          • ClemTone

            Yes Really.
            Check TED and search like hell  because I don’t have time to educated you.

    • JGC

      A poor attempt at humor.  Or maybe not.

      • TFRX

        I hope you’ve seen the photograph of a homemade cardboard sign held at ground level on Wall St.

        “Jump, fnckers!”

        Much better, in my book: Gets the message across, and in a world of inciteful language at a pretty tense moment, on an internet devoid of vocal tone or non-verbal language, not going to be decontextualized.

        • JGC

          I think I’ve seen this sign. Of course, I laugh and shake my head and laugh some more,I totally get the humor and it is  funny…but….

          It also brings into my mind a disturbing remembrance of 9/11, when I saw a photo of a man, leg stuck straight out like he was stepping off a platform, except it was from one of the Twin Towers and in the middle of the air, 100 stories up from the pavement.  

    • Timboy3

       Really psychopaths — get a conscience.
      If you have to kill people and cut them up be a Dexter and not a John Wayne Gacy.

    • Akilez Castillo

      If a psycho shoot bankers the bankers will shoot back with foreclosure and repos.

      • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

        Nah, Bankers prefer preemptive strikes.

    • CensorThisAgain

        I totally understand what you are getting at, and have often wonder myself why it is that people who go on such “sprees” never choose victims that make some kind of sense.
      I have also wondered why it is that people dying from lung cancer don’t blow the brains out of some lawyer who is acting as a spokesman for the tobacco industry.
      I guess you just can’t depend on psychopaths to be rational in that way.  Though they certainly are rational enough to figure out how to maximize their effect on innocent victims. Maybe they are all just chicken sh*t at heart and don’t want to mess with the hard targets?
      I remember what was said about the Texas tower shooter. He actually left a note requesting a autopsy, because he could not help himself and knew something was way wrong with him.  And there it was, the tumor, pressing up against the part of the brain that controls violent responses.
      On the other hand there are the Islamist inspired mass murderers and as nutz as they are, at least their targets make some kind of sense.
      But their insanity is software derived, and this kind of unfortunate event is usually a result of a hardware malfunction in the skull.
      Good luck with poking you stick into a hornets nest.
      How can you possible expect the average person to get your irony?
      You should use the irony warning (IRONY WARNING: for the irony impaired) try it.  It’s free.

      • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

        Hate to quote one of the Batman movies but the Butler had it right in The Dark Knight:

        “because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren’t looking for anything logical, like money. They can’t be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.”

    • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

      So this borderline inciteful comment gets to stay on the board but I have the use of my name taken away for calling out a bully? I never insinuated that anyone shoot anybody yet I’m relegated to Interloper status. Who the he11 moderates this board, Still Here? I of course won’t flag this or any comment (never have, never will), that’s what a bully does when they realize they’ve picked a fight with the wrong person. They run screamin’ for momma cause bully=Coward. Selective Censorship is bulls***, someone needs to be assigned elsewhere.

  • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

    It’s a beautiful day in the Neighborhood…

    • Akilez Castillo

      But not in Bulgaria, Colorado and Syria and the poor 7 year old hungry kid in the street of Somalia

      • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

        That actually was an edited comment that was supposed to be a reply to someone elsewhere on the board. I think it’s going to be my standard insert every time Discus misplaces my comments from now on. It’s not a beautiful day much of anywhere these days hence my implied sarcasm.

        • Akilez Castillo

          i know just wanted to add more on your sarcasm.

  • Akilez Castillo

    I am sick and tired of violence. Killing in Bulgaria, Colorado and Syria. I am disgusted by our world but what can we do.

    We continue with our lives and continue to fight our own personal life problems. We want to change for the better but evil is more powerful than we can imagine.

  • Akilez Castillo

    The people who are suffered so much in the Great Recession are still suffering. People who wanted to get out of reality to watch a movie to suppress the real world for couple of hours. Cannot even escape the horrors that they see everyday in the real world. They have to be the victims of one man’s anger and while they tried to escape reality temporary but the reality they wanted to avoid ollowed them inside a movie theater.

  • Akilez Castillo

    The people that made the American middle class suffered are continuously enjoying their liberty in the pursuit of the destruction of the American people and economy.

    Why does America depend on war in order for the American economy to survive.

    WW1, WW2, Korean War, Vietnam War, Gulf War 1&2 ang Afghanistan.

    Do we need to go to war in order for our economy to prosper with the blood of innocent people.

    I blame myself and the world that we continue to support bloodshed and avoided Peace for so long time.

    We can avoid Hate and embrace Love.

    • Akilez Castillo

      But all we embrace is the blood of Humanity

  • William

     I think everyone heard exactly what Obama said and there was no confusion about his message.

    • Akilez Castillo

      what did he say?

    • Denis

      Everyone heard… fox, Limbaugh, Beck disciples chose to misinterpreted
      .

    • TFRX

      Except in WilliamWorld.

      I’d recommend you broaden your media diet, but I’ve seen enough of your work to guess it won’t do you a bit of good.

  • William

     Really? HP, Apple, Google all worked in their garage or apartments to start their companies. Which of course today if the government found out they would have been shut down and fined for code violations.

    • Akilez Castillo

      It was before we started sending manufacturer jobs overseas. I think they sign a law against home made products or businesses.

    • Denis

      And where do you get your information against working in your garage? I know several people running their businesses out of their garages with no repercussions. You like so many others have to state as fact the little annoyances you pick up on from Beck, Limbaugh and the 24/7 Fox disinformation network.
       

      • TFRX

        Answering William in good faith is a waste of your good faith and intellect.

        William just makes crap up to please himself.

  • Brandstad

    CBO Shows the rich lost more income and paid more of their money in taxes than the rest of the population since 2007.

    CBO Report shows Buffet is a Liar since we can’t assume he is dumb.
    http://www.cnbc.com/id/48257611

    • Timboy3

      Since they have stolen so much of the nations wealth, of course they have to pay most of the taxes, but if they have their way that will change. 

      • Brandstad

        What did they steal and how did they steal it?

        • ClamTone

          Through illegal financial market manipulation, by proxy through off shore hedge-fund managers, by subverting the government regulators with their wealth, etc, etc, etc.  You are truly asleep if you are so unaware of the situation.

          • notafeminista

            So that’s a “no.”

          • Still Here

            adjust your tinfoil hat

      • notafeminista

        Can you show proof of ownership?

        • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

          Can you show proof of intelligence?

          • notafeminista

            So that’s a “no.”

          • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

            If you’d left “So that’s a” off of your reply it would have been right on the money.

            Guess I’ll have to add you to the Still Here, Braindead, and Ed category. I’m afraid you’ll have to get that attention you crave for being a “bad boy” from someone else. You obviously don’t need to engage in discussion with me since you already know everything and have all the answers to the World’s problems. Let me know when you’re done single-handedly saving the Planet.

      • JonS

        Truly disgusting to read your comments and frightening to think there are such idiots frequenting these boards.

        • Timboy3

           You bring a smile to my face.
          It would be my pleasure to disgust you any old time — moron.

    • nj_v2

      Haha! Branny cherry picks random factoids to imply that income disparity isn’t real or an issue.

      Here’s one for ya: The Mall*Wart Walton heirs’ net worth is larger than the bottom 40% of all income earners in the U.S. combined!! Oh, the poor rich!

      Hahahaha! Good one, Branny!

      • notafeminista

        Funnier yet, why not provide evidence and charting for your claim to that money?

        • nj_v2

          I’m sorry your search engine is broken. Time to save up for a new computer, i guess.

          http://www.epi.org/blog/inequality-exhibit-wal-mart-wealth-american/

          Excerpt:

          “In 2007, it was reported that the Walton family wealth was as large as the bottom 35 million families in the wealth distribution combined, or 30.5 percent of all American families.

          And in 2010, as the Walton’s wealth has risen and most other Americans’ wealth declined, it is now the case that the Walton family wealth is as large as the bottom 48.8 million families in the wealth distribution (constituting 41.5 percent of all American families) combined.”

          • notafeminista

            So you’ll need to point directly to where any of this money belongs or belonged at one time to nj_v2.

            Can you?

          • nj_v2

            It’s sad—yet, now entirely predictable, at least for those of you who infect post on this site—how you right-wingers have to resort to red herrings and distortion to rationalize the detrimental effects of predatory capitalism.

            “We can either have democracy in this country or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can’t have both.”

            —Louis Brandeis
            U.S. Supreme Court Justice (1856-1941)

  • http://www.facebook.com/erick.knackstedt.3 Erick Knackstedt

    The comments during this segment against individualism are nauseating. This show has been stacking the rhetorical deck against Romney’s message, and it is disappointing.

    • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

      I found your comment nauseating and it is disappointing that such narrow-mindedness rampantly infects our populous.

      ALL speech is rhetorical.

      • http://www.facebook.com/erick.knackstedt.3 Erick Knackstedt

         Don’t ya know, that was kinda my point. Showing a bias towards one rhetorical approach vs another is unbecoming of a publicly funded program.

    • romeny not american

       there is no rhetoric againnst individualism.  Romeny is talking about selfishness and anti-empathetic behavior–’indivisualism’ is code for bigotry, and fascism, and sociopathic behavior–sound alarming–look at the evidence

      • notafeminista

        Dogwhistle alert.

        • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

          TRFX was the first person I recall using the Dogwhistle descriptor in the forum, way to be original.

          Troll Alert.

        • TFRX

          I feel like Marshall McLuhan in “Annie Hall”.


          I heard what you were saying. You know nothing of my work.”

          • notafeminista

            Yeah, actually I do…and that’s why you respond to me the way you do.

            It is cute.

          • TFRX

            You don’t know the meaning of dogwhistle.

            I “respond” simply so other people here don’t get the idea you’re making apoint. You make me feel like a teacher bored by second-graders’ essays; I correct your blunders up until the point it bores me.

            I would get more explaining football to a dog.

            That would be much clearer if the internets were able to show non-verbal communication or vocal tone.

  • oldquote

    In CO, why was there no one to shoot back? WHY? Because of gun laws! And most of us understand that. When seconds count, the police are minutes away. This is just one more tragedy due to our restrictive gun laws and rhetoric about more restrictions on law abiding people.

    • JGC

      I was just saying to myself, if only, if only George Zimmerman had been released from the Greybar Hotel, maybe he could have prevented this tragedy with his Kel-Tec PF9 9mm.  Perfect for doing his brand of “social work”, as it is called on the Gunblast website

      http://gunblast.com/Kel-Tec9mm.htm

      Or then again, maybe not.

    • Mike Card

      Of course, in that vigilante paradise, you’d already be 6 feet under.

  • Goodwinmw

    Thank-you for a great show.

    I read in the Boston Globe while at Bain Capital Mitt Romney was the guy who could find the investors needed to fund Bain projects.

    It ocurred to me that being the head of the Olympics would give Mr. Romney incredible smoozing power with potential Bain investors. Maybe Mr. Romney was using this power for the benefit of Bain Capital and himself?

  • JGC

    After all the news today on the Colorado shooting, yesterday’s On Point program on “Singing in the Rain” seems more like a dream from last year.  I googled “Colorado shooting” earlier to find the name of the suspected gunman, and there were so many different Colorado shootings that came up, I had a hard time immediately spotting the one I was seeking.

    Maybe Originalist defenders of the 2nd Amendment need to specify only weaponry available in the late 18th century is covered under the law.  At least then the rest of us would have a fighting (or running) chance.  But Justice Scalia, an Originalist if ever there was, somehow makes provision for advances in technology while protecting original intent of the Constitution.  

    I am sure the Founders of the 18th century could not have imagined the weaponry available today in the 21st.  How many more decades until personal drone assassin robots are available at Wal-Mart? 

    • at

       I take it you are not that familiar with the destructive power of an eight-pounder.  Or perhaps the geese-guns that could take out most of a flock with one shot.

      • romeny not american

         sounds like youre not familiar with empathy or human compassion.

        Sounds like you like to massacre birds–sick behavior man.  Who is next?

        “an eight-pounder man yeah—oooh oooh ohh, iim horny

        • JGC

          No, I think he is just trying to point out that weapons of that day could also be very destructive, so as to whittle away at my point that Originalists should stick to 18th c. weaponry. 

          But I have never heard news reports of dozens injured or dead due to wackos on the rampage with geese-guns and 8-pounders.

          (Except maybe for that unfortunate V.P.Cheney hunting incident a number of years back…)    

      • JGC

        No, I am not familiar at all, even though I am from the land of “Guns ‘n Gifts”.

      • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

        While I take your point I find it highly unlikely that someone could covertly wheel a cannon or trebuchet into a public gathering. A blunderbuss would be much more difficult to conceal than a couple of Glocks, an AR-15, and a 12 gauge Remington. And the bottom line is the reload time (which I think was JGC’s fundamental point, though I could be mistaken.).

        If you’re going to take five seconds to one minute to reload from ONE shot, you’re going to get taken down. I’d certainly call that more of a fighting chance than any involved in recent atrocities have had.

    • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

      Look for the HomeFront Security Department coming soon to a WallyWorld near you.

      Scary thought.

  • Dominic in Ann Arbor

    A lot of people seem to be dismissing the “Batman” killer as simply being evil, and no one could have done anything to prevent this.

    But the past decade of neuroscience has shown more and more that people we deem as “evil” often, or maybe even ALWAYS, have something wrong or different with their brains.

    And we live in a culture that PROMOTES sociopathic behavior! Our individualistic, money-driven, capitalist society actually rewards sociopaths – we’re always hearing that the successful corporate business people more often than not fit the profile of sociopaths.

    But everyone is talking about gun control! No one is talking about ways to discover and help sociopaths or people with brain tumors or brain imbalances who are much more likely to commit such atrocities.

    Neuroscientists and psychologists are finding more methods of finding these people early, and with the rise of the “99%” it’s the perfect time to start discussing a society that promotes sociopathy.

    Let’s get the politicians talking about real ways to prevent these sorts of tragedies.

    • at

       I admire your optimism.

  • romney not american

    Obama is more american than romeny and his followers will ever be–romeny is a corporate aristocrat who hates america life dedicated to defrauding americans and sending jopbs over seas for his own personal benefit–and he an alien worshiper.   His citizinship should be stripped.  So low–pandering to his racist bigoted mad right.

    Obama is the incarnation of what it is to be american.

    I will not be voting for either.  Vote green–not corporate.

     

  • romeny not american

    “ceremony of innocence drowned in blood”–sounds like the spectacle of corporate thieves and politicians continually making excuses for their sociopathic criminal murderous behavior

  • romeny not american

    to the caller with a hatchet an automatic weapon:  you do not have a right to carry an automatic weapon.  You sound so stupid–you sound like a crying baby hysterical over a having a knife taken away.  There is no need for such weapons in society–not even war.  Anyone who defends it need s a pych eval.

    The NRA is never confronted–confront them in open natinal debate–chaleenge them

    THE NRA is synoynomous with the KKK.

  • romeny not an american

    steve jobs did not build apple–the people who worked for him did.  Romeny you are an idiotic ass.  Steve jobs was a fascist and a slave driver and murderer–tousands have died under his regime in china due to extreme pollution he was completely aware of.  Steve jobs was a sociopath and so is romney and bush and cheney and rummy and rove and all those fascists envious of the riech

    • Hidan

       Don’t forget the “Cheap” slave labor in china that also contributed to Jobs success.

  • romeny not an american

    romeny is celebrating sociopathic behavior

    • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

      He’s not celebrating it, he’s exhibiting it.

  • romeny not american

    steve jobs and gates depended  thousands if not tens of thousands of other people that made their greed possible

    • Still Here

      you’ve got it backwards

  • Dee

    More from the fanatical Zionist apologists,  Dennis Ross
    on the Charlie Rose Show….Note how Charlie Rose is 
    buying into this insane Zionist fringe who are hell bent 
    on destabilizing Syria to gain control of the Middle East.
    http://www.hulu.com/watch/382779#s-p1-so-i0

    He should be taken out in chains and charged with high 
    crimes against foreign governments and misrepresenting 
    the American peoples’ will and revenue in the Middle East 
    in violation of the US Constitution, Federal laws and inter-
    national law…Dee

  • Dee

    The war on the Syrian people , Chris Marsden, WSWS
    http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/may2012/pers-m31.shtml

    Syria , The Next Humanitarian War , Michel Chussudovsky
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=29234

  • Observer

    Re: To the cattle farmer in Nebraska on liquidating his stock To Tom’s cattle farmer from Nebraska (Drought in the US) Sir, you sounded like a Wall Street trader getting rid of his stock 
    and to hell what it meant to the people involved along the way..
    I guess much like Mitt Romney and the companies he forced 
    into bankruptcy and collected the premiums from the govern-
    ment. In addition, i found your attitude callous compared with the vetrinarian on the BBC World Service who was rushing to get his gun together to protect some wolves he heard about in his area who were under attack by some hunters…At first, I thought he was over reacting but then he said 
    “Who is to say man is the only animal who has a right to
    life and dignity? ” I gained a very different perspective 
    about animals following his remarks and I thought about 
    this again when I saw a calf being separated from its 
    mother one day on a local farm..The mother cried until
    the calf returned that afternoon..(I cursed the meat in-
    dustry…that do this daily to animals…I have since givenup eating meat…)In addition, this scene came to mind as you talked about 
    separating your yearlings and allowing to feed an extra 
    year on the range… Yet due to the drought -you said you 
    wouldn’t do that this year. Instead , you would “liquiate”them… How terribly cruel! ObserverLike
    Reply

    • Gregg

      Cows are a crop.

      • JGC

        (Aside to Gregg:  I like your to-the-point answers. You say what you think in a few brief and well-chosen words, and we are able to fill in the big picture. It is a particular talent to do this!) 

  • Still Here

    The ABA Journal reported on a CNBC.com summary of a 2011 Bureau of Labor Statistics salary report. The top five professions were:
    1) Doctors and surgeons, with an average salary ranging from $168,650 to $234,950.2) Orthodontists and dentists, with an average salary ranging from $161,750 to $204,670.3) Chief executive officers, with an average salary of $176,550.4) Petroleum engineers, with an average salary of $138,980.5) Lawyers, with an average salary of $130,490.

  • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

    They’re still trying to determine how to address the nightmare that exists inside the Colorado shooter’s apartment. I’m curious to hear any suggestions some might have to achieve containment.

    • Hidan

       Interesting it’s not considered an act of terrorism. I say this cause if this person was not a white male but brown muslim they be outcry and calls for more profiling and see terrorism as an now meaningless word because it’s selectively applied for the same actions.

      But I was thinking about that maybe he wired his apartment as an distraction maybe give another person time to flee. The guy seems pretty smart and plan things out and most likely guessing the police/FBI/etc would hit his home for any clues so he probably scrubbed the place of any such and wired it to delay the police from investigating even further. I say such cause if his attended goal was to blow up more of his neighbors he could have created a timed bomb but instead wired his place leading me to believe it’s a distraction from something else.

      I’m surprise the police didn’t start by creating new entries from the neighbors walls or the top of the apartment instead of justing using the small window to do this. or even reinforce the surrounding apartments to be able to take a blast.

      • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

        I had the same reaction when I repeatedly heard that it wasn’t being considered an act of terrorism. I was screaming at the radio asking “Well what the he11 does constitute an act of terrorism?”. My assumption was that it was a feeble attempt to comfort The Sheeple.

        Entering non-intrusively (drop cam) through the roof was my first inclination, seems like it would have been the best and safest way to get an idea of the situation inside. The reinforcement of surrounding walls to try to contain an explosion is a great idea, unfortunately they first would have to have an accurate understanding of the force of the blast that would result once triggered. I’m sure (or at least I hope) there are also concerns that something even nastier than the initial blast might be dispersed (Sarin, etc.).

        Thanks so much for the well thought out reply.

        • notafeminista

          Right.  If it was referred to as an act of terrorism you’d be carrying on about fear mongering.

          Some folks get up every day and look forward to being disappointed.

          • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

            If it had been referred to as an act of terrorism (which by definition it clearly was), I would have applauded truth in reporting. And you’re talking to me about “carrying on”? Seriously? This from a Stay The Course Troll.

            I wake up every morning looking for a glimmer of hope for humanity. Some folks get up every day and look forward to poisoning rational people with inane and inciteful speech.

          • notafeminista

            “Carrying on”…as in gnashing of teeth and rending of garments and generally making a spectacle of one’s self.

      • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

        Alastair Leithead ‏@aleithead
        from BBC just tweeted:

        Day 2 of #AuroraShooting coverage – police say they may make controlled explosion at James Holmes’ apartment

  • david

    Trying to make sense of the thinking of the left.
    The murders in Colorado has become a platform for the political views of the far left news media.
    All the big networks jumped on the story and placed blame on, guess who? “the right” “the conservatives” the republican platform.
    “The shooting in Aurora, Colorado earlier this morning was a tragedy, but ABC sought to make a political statement by tying the shooter to the Tea Party”
    http://www.aim.org/don-irvine-blog/abc-ties-colorado-shooter-to-tea-party-apologizes-later/
    “Left blames Aurora shooting on Rush Limbaugh …”
    Even on this program today, the NRA was put in the crosshairs.
    Here is the problem: We are not addressing the real issue!!
    Tom made this comment that shows he is missing the point on who or what is the problem. He said …do we want semi-automatic guns walking(coming?) into our movie…….
    At last check, guns do not walk on their on, people carry them!
    The left blames the “guns” we need more gun control.
    Guns are not the problem, the evil people are the problem.
    The solution: Rid the evil people from among you and the guns will not be a problem!
    The left view is to ban the guns and lock up the mass murderers for life at our expense.
    Maybe the right view is, you “murder” someone with a gun, you forfeit your life one hour after you are found gulity “without a doubt”!

    • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

      And someone earlier on the board implied that he might have ties to the Occupy movement. It works both ways.

      Yes evil-doers are the problem but I don’t care how harsh the penalties are, you’ll never eradicate malicious intent. As I said elsewhere when quoting Alfred in the movie The Dark Knight there are (and always will be) those who “thought it was good sport. Because some men aren’t looking for anything logical, like money. They can’t be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.”

      • nj_v2

        [[ "It works both ways." ]]

        Yep, there’s idiocy all around whenever an event like this happens.

        http://reason.com/blog/2012/07/20/half-assed-media-speculation-about-the-b

        Half-Assed Media Speculation About the Batman ShooterMatt Welch | July 20, 2012

      • notafeminista

        Someone on the board …as opposed to ABC News who tried outright to link it to the TeaParty.  Nice try though.

        • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

          What makes you think I find ABC News a reliable source of information?

    • Craigg

      Southern, bigoted, hypocritical ideologues with an agenda are responsible for the shootings…

      The “right” view is everybody should be armed to the hilt and vigilante justice should prevail. (Right?) If some good old boy had been there, he would have shot the killer before anyone had been hurt! All of this could have been avoided if more God were forced on people in school and at home!

    • jefe68

      In my view every time there is one of these horrific events I feel the NRA does have take some responsibility. After all they lobbied for the lifting of the ban on semiautomatic weapons, such as the one used in the shooting.  

      Here’s a little fact for you, you are 500 times more likely do be shot in the US than be a victim in a terrorist attack.

      I’m not for banning all guns, I’m for banning guns that are only used in these senseless crimes.

      The right is worse in my view. You folks hide behind the Second Amendment and scream like little boys who are scared that some adult is going to take away your toys anytime gun control is brought up.

      • david

        jefe68
        “I’m not for banning all guns, I’m for banning guns that are only used in these senseless crimes.”

        I have seen every type of gun, from 22′s up to the big stuff used in crimes. Also a host of other tools used around the house, you even eat with some of them!
        You can ban the guns, they will use something else.
        Solution: Rid the evil from among you!!!!

        • JGC

          How?

          • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

            My thoughts exactly.

            “Demons be gone!”

            Damn, it didn’t work.

          • JGC

            Wow! Wish I’d thought of that…

          • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

            Don’t kick yourself, it obviously didn’t work. I’m so disappointed.

            I guess it’s time to let david start gathering up his kindling, crosses, black bags, and gasoline since he clearly has a handle on how to solve the problem.

        • Denise

           ”Rid the evil from among you” sounds like what them Puritans might have screamed at those pesky witch trials.

          You can’t “exorcise” the evil from society because it’s in all of us. Some people have more aggressive/destructive impulses than others, and some are less able to keep them in check because of mental health or life stress, but you can’t just lock up and execute everyone who doesn’t live and think the exact same way as you. That’s what Naziism was about.

          Life is not like rooting for a sports team. It’s not all about “winning”. Humanity and human society are complex ecosystems, and we give up freedoms everyday to be able to live together in relative peace. We all buy car insurance and obey the rules of the road if we want to drive. We have different classes of driver’s licenses for different types of vehicles. Is it really so unreasonable to ask that some weapons be restricted to certain high clearance operators?

        • Jeffe

          I’m not sure how to respond to such a comment. Your examples are very flawed and off the point that the sale of assault weapons and large amounts of ammo should be controlled, it’s so obvious.

          Your comments do point to one thing, a complete lack of reason and common sense.

    • notafeminista

      Well David, all you have to do is look at the responses.  The sense of the thinking of the Left is that it is always someone else’s fault.  Never do the actions of the individual matter or come into play.  After all, he didn’t build it.

      • david

        Time has taught me one thing, when the truth hurts, those who oppose it keep their mouths closed.
        As soon as this story broke, it did not take but a few hours to turn it into a political tool by the left.
        When Gifford was shot, guess who the left media try to lay blame!!! Palin
        Remember, it is and election year!
        Obama has been blaming the woes of the nation on Bush for 4 yrs. I am tired of the blame game of politics, solve the problem.
        In the case of the Colorado murder, the solution is clear, but! nobody has the guts to make the hard choices.

        • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

          Time has taught you something and you’re tired of the blame game of politics? What was your initial comment if not a blame game politically motivated rant?

          The truth hurts is right, thank goodness you’ll never have to worry about facing it.

          • david

            My initial comment is true, watch the the TV!
            If I weigh the blame game on a scale, the party in the White House wins hands down.
            Here is another truth, our nation is headed in the wrong direction and guess who is in charge of the ship of state.

          • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

            “My initial comment is true, watch the the TV!”

            No thanks, I don’t watch television. That’s the majority of your problem right there. I place no more faith in anything ABC News would tell me than I do in anything FAUX News would tell me. Your initial comment said a lot more than ABC News says…

            As for your other “truths”, it wouldn’t matter what I say so I’ll say nothing further. If you really want to know what’s wrong with this country all you (and most of the rest of us) need do is look in the mirror.

          • david

            What is wrong with this country is the move to the far left, liberalism that has always failed in history.
            My worth and contribution to this country is appreciated in my neck of the woods. I look in the mirror not to see fault but to encourage myself to make this world a better place as long as it relies on me.

          • JGC

            I dunno, david…If liberalism has always failed in history, why is Canada’s overall state of health so much better at the moment than what is being experienced in the United States?   

          • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

            The move to the far left? We’ve been swinging hard right for over a decade now. If we’re not willing to face our own failures how can any of us begin to address the obstacles we face?

            You know what the problem with thinking that everyone should subscribe to your particular belief structure or falsely perceived sense of morality is? It leads to the most egregious crimes in humanity’s history. Don’t take my word for it, do some reading on the lead up to every instance of mass genocide and forced slavery that has occurred up to this point.

            If you look in the mirror every day and ask “How can I help to make the world a better place?” I applaud you. Making the world a better place and making the world agree with your personal belief structure or personal agenda are not the same thing.

      • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

        I didn’t see anything in any of the responses disregarding personal accountability. Let me go get my rose-colored glasses on and read them again, surely I missed something.

        • notafeminista

          Yeah, you did.

  • jefe68

    Here’s some good news: Lenovo CEO spreads the wealth, distributes his $3 million bonus to lower level employees.

    http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/20/lenovo-ceo-spreads-the-wealth/

    • notafeminista

      I like that he did it voluntarily rather than at the demand of some rag-tag group who believes they’re somehow entitled to his money …apparently because they say so.

      Liberty is a beautiful thing.

      • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

        I’m certain the recent outcry against unmitigated greed didn’t play into Lenovo’s decision. Also, he spread it among his employees not the general public. I’m sure there was no motivation to improve his work life either. Such benevolence…

        Liberty indeed.

        • notafeminista

          Since we know that no CEO, COO or business founder didn’t build it, it seems appropriate that he spread it amongst those who helped him.

          Presuming you are not among that number what possible claim do you have to his paycheck?

        • Jeffe

          Oh please, the man chose to give his bonus to his employees, it’s a way to tell them that they matter to him. That he can’t do it without them. What’s is wrong with you?
          Are you so out to lunch that you have to put everything down that anyone does?

          You seem like the kind of person who walks into a room and all the air is just sucked out of it. 

          • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

            It was less an affront to Mr. Lenovo than it was a response to notalickocommonsense. I appreciate anyone who tries to help others, especially when it is done without being motivated by personal gain. I think all businesses should be employee owned and am glad to see someone doing right by those whose backs their business is built on. Stop taking offense Jeffe, there was none intended.

            Maybe you’re right though, maybe I’m just a terrible person who goes around stealing everyone’s oxygen. If that is the case you should just completely ignore me. I won’t mind.

          • jefe68

            I have to ask, why did you not post this comment instead of the first one? It seems measured and still makes your point.

          • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

            Because my initial response was just a knee-jerk reaction to the jerk trying to bend your comment to his will. I have great difficulty with spelling things out sometimes but I’m always more than happy to do just that once it’s made clear that I need to. I hope (and think) that you know my response to notahumanbeing was in no way a degradation to your initial comment, it was good news indeed. The only reason that I couldn’t give your comment a like is because I felt that if Mr. Lenovo really wanted to do right by his employees he would have been figuring out a way to change his business to an employee owned company.

            I apologize if my reply to the troll was seen as dismissive of a good deed, but like I said: If my comments are in question in anyone’s mind it is my sincere hope that they will simply ask me about them.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/J7LU3TFXLHTP5IYTPTG62VUZRY Ann

    Of course entrepreneurs deserve credit, but of course they don’t do it alone. They had other people working with/for them, and they often had unusual opportunities. I recommend reading ‘The Outliers’ by Malcolm Gladwell; among others, he describes Bill Gates who, while he certainly is smart and worked hard, did have an unusual situation and opportunity. I don’t remember the details, but I think it started in high school when the mothers  at his school got a computer for the students, which virtually no other high school kids had available at the time.

  • david

    The coming Economic Earthquake!!!
    http://www.usdebtclock.org/

  • Galgas

    The Colorado massacre seems to highlight, among other things, the mental health issues that exist in our society. How is it that this man could sit in his apartment and plot and build bombs, where were the red flags? If 1 in 8 adults (National Institues of Mental Health) have mental health issues, what were this persons signs or symptoms? Who had encounters with him? Where did the breakdowns occur. I see this as more an issue of mental health issues in society- than gun control. May the fallen rest in peace & may the wounded heal swiftly.

    • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

      1 in 8 seems awfully optimistic, but of course diagnosis never reflects actual totals. We’re all bats*** crazy (myself included) if you ask me. As for the flags, the “He seemed like such a nice young man, just kept to himself and never caused any problems” that repeatedly surfaces when someone goes off the deep end comes to mind. I do recall reading somewhere however that his mother said she wasn’t surprised he would do something like this. Unfortunately (and fortunately at the same time) you can’t prosecute and imprison someone for what they might do. Our society does seem to breed nut-jobs but then again so does every other so called “Civilization” throughout history. Like greed, I’m afraid crazy is just an inherent part of the human condition. The second any of us start to think that everyone should believe or think the same thing we do the battle is lost. I liked your comment though.

    • Steve_T

       Very well said.

    • Eliza

       We always see these comments after a massacre. “It’s a mental health issue, not about gun control issue.”

      Why can’t it be both? They’re not mutually exclusive. Plus, a recent study showed no correlation between gun violence and mental illness prevalence. There is a correlation, however between states with stricter gun laws and lower gun violence.

  • guest

    obvious obama was talking about roads when he said ‘they didn’t build that.’ 

    • Guest

      I think we all know exactly what President Obama meant in his speech.  Some people believe success is mostly a matter of luck, and is primarily dependent on birthright and connections.  Others believe that values, work ethic, getting an education, and working hard make success happen.  President Obama doesn’t believe that — something else makes it happen.
       

      The critical question:  when you read the preceding statement, did you think “President Obama doesn’t believe that” referred to the second sentence, or to the third sentence?  Did you think “something else makes it happen” meant it couldn’t be luck, or it couldn’t be hard work?

      • JGC

        Success is not a matter of luck.  Mathematically you are equating
         success = luck X (birthright + connections) in the first sentence.   And your second formula issuccess = values + work ethic +education +working hardThere is no apparent connection in your formulation  between luck and success in the second formulation.  But is it “lucky” to be born into a family that provides connections to employment and education through their own familial success? Or is it just genetics or is it just privilege?  For sure, it is something if it cannot be characterized by “luck”.

  • JGC

    Hello On Point Family,  I have just loaded the family dog onto the roof of our car and I am now ready to enjoy a family vacation (with my real family) in just a few hours. 

    As one of my last requests before I head out, please read and consider some of the postings between me (JGC) and Guest. I only just updated this evening, so Guest hasn’t had a chance to respond yet, but a lot of it has to do with the handling of the Mitt and Ann Romney tax returns,  their IRAs and “luck”. 

    Most people have already decided if they are voting for President Obama or for Governor Romney or maybe to vote for their 3rd party candidate or maybe to not vote at all.  It will be a close election, and it will rest on the shoulders of the truly independent voters.  But if you all could just ponder for a moment the bizarre situations of the Romney tax returns and of  their IRAs, I cannot think of another taxation primer that doesn’t spell it out more clearly whose interests are at stake. 

    • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

      Please tell me the dog is in a pet carrier. ;’)

      Have a great vacation!

      • JGC

        Thanks, we’re good!

  • ThePlayChannel Games

    As one of the “innovators” that Romney talks about, I want to puke at his lines. No, Steve Jobs did NOT build Apple Co. Steve Jobs AND thousands of other people build Apple. The same for Ray Crock/McDonalds, or any other large company. And when the “free market” is stacked against the many little contributors, it is time for the people to wake up.

  • http://twitter.com/Interloping101 Interloper

    I just heard the best discussion regarding the recent atrocity in Colorado that I could have ever possibly hoped for. The guest, Edward Smith, just became one of my heroes. This is what we need, this is what we deserve, and it definitely warrants our undivided attention. Please, anyone who reads this comment, listen to the show once the audio becomes available. Link provided below, thanks to all for your consideration.

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=157239762

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