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What Really Happened With Fast And Furious

What really happened with guns and agents on the Arizona border? A big investigative report looks again at “Fast and Furious.”

Attorney General Eric Holder listens to Rep. Darryl Issa, R-Calif., on video screen, while testifying on Capitol Hill in Washington, Thursday, Dec. 8, 2011, before the House Judiciary Committee hearing on Operation Fast and Furious. The House voted to find Holder in contempt on June 28, 2012. (AP)

Attorney General Eric Holder listens to Rep. Darryl Issa, R-Calif., on video screen, while testifying on Capitol Hill in Washington, Thursday, Dec. 8, 2011, before the House Judiciary Committee hearing on Operation Fast and Furious. The House voted to find Holder in contempt on June 28, 2012. (AP)

Attorney General Eric Holder was voted in contempt of Congress by the House last week. First time in history Congress has done that. The story behind the vote goes back to Operation Fast and Furious. Holder’s critics describe it as an outrage of botched “gun walking” to Mexico.

A big new investigative report in Fortune magazine says the case for outrage is based on distortions, partial truths and outright lies. We’ll hear from the reporter. And from a top Republican investigator who says the fury is well-aimed.

This hour, On Point: looking again at Fast and Furious.

-Tom Ashbrook

Guests

Katherine Eban, an investigative reporter who wrote a big story on the Fast and Furious scandal for Fortune.

Jason Foster, chief investigative counsel for Republican Senator Chuck Grassley on his Senate Judiciary Committee staff. [NOTE: Here are some additional comments from Foster about Fast and Furious, made after the program aired today.]

From Tom’s Reading List

Fortune “A Fortune investigation reveals that the ATF never intentionally allowed guns to fall into the hands of Mexican drug cartels. How the world came to believe just the opposite is a tale of rivalry, murder, and political bloodlust.”

Washington Post “But in the eyes of the man who started and oversaw Fast and ­Furious, the operation remains an example of smart law enforcement — an approach that has simply been misunderstood.”

Weekly Standard “Last Thursday, Attorney General Eric Holder was called to testify before Congress. His attitude toward  his questioners was by any measure unbecoming of his office. At one point he actually demanded he be “given some credit” for his performance as attorney general. Though, bad as that outburst was, it was slightly less petulant than the earlier insinuation that his critics are racist.”

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  • TruckerBobS

    Anybody with half a brain knows he is lying through his teeth. If he doesn’t have anything to hide, release the documents. Simple as that. There’s 3 pages to my grade card mommy. But I’m only gonna show you 1 and I want you to believe that I got straight A’s. Why won’t you show me the other two pages? Well, my best friend Bob will be looking into that and he’ll report the results to you.  When?  Oh…..uh, soon. The IG has had the information for OVER A YEAR.
    The man is a criminal and the blood of Brian Terry is on his hands and is crying out from the Arizona desert for JUSTICE. Not “Just-Us”

    • Victor Vito

      So you don’t believe in any information being too sensitive or any security barriers on any information?  You also disagree with the notion of presidential priviledge?

      Too simplistic, Mr Trucker.

    • Don_B1

      Vice President Cheney has made a strong case for NOT releasing issue discussion data, particularly in the case of energy policy discussions with the oil companies when those discussions barely acknowledged the interests of the environment and other alternatives to energy sources. That discussion had and will have much longer and costly ramifications for the American (and world) people that F&F could ever have.

    • UtahTwisted

      The argument has nothing to do with guns, it has to do with separation of powers and has gone on since 1787

  • http://www.ak47world.com A-K Dan

     Hillary & Eric Holder HATCHED Fast & Furious from a FAILED
    Clinton-Era Gun-Walking Scheme CALLED ‘Operation Dragonfire’ highlighted
    on my website zzz http://www.ak47world.com/clinton.html zzz since 1998!

    • Don_B1

      Even Rep. Darryl Issa does not claim that! Making those types of preposterous claims means that you are not serious.

  • guest1

    Eban’s story complete BS. Read this roll call article. the actual documents prove she’s nothing but a liar.  http://www.rollcall.com/news/darrell_issa_puts_details_of_secret_wiretap_applications_in_congressional-215828-1.html?pos=hln

    • guest1doesntread

      That story doesn’t contradict the Eban story. Pease reread it if you do not understand the thesis.

      • Victor Vito

        Oh, snap!

  • guest1
    • TFRX

      If you wish to rebut the article, maybe something that doesn’t link to Daily Caller would help.

  • http://www.facebook.com/backrubs62 James Weisinger

    IF Fortune is so right about there being no gun walking. which is what the feb 04,2010 letter says. how come the DOJ had to retract that letter and admit that yes gunwalking took place

    • Don_B1

      That question probably will not be answered accurately until the DoJ IG reports on the issue, which hopefully will be soon. Whatever the Republican House Committee reports, it will be controversial because of the obvious bias it has shown in its investigation.

      The fact that Chairman Issa released tape recording evidence which was privileged because of its contents with regard to ongoing investigations, shows, at a minimum, the desperation of the Republicans to win the propaganda war that is going on with regard to this issue. It also justifies AG Holder’s reluctance to turn over such sensitive documents.

  • Mi66gt

    It is time that all D.A.s be accountable for their actions. Why is it that those in law enforcement who we entrust with so much power and influence are immune from the penalty of the law. When they break the law they should be held to a sterner penalty than the average citizen. It’s really no wonder that Holder feels he is above the law. He is. He and thousands of D.A.s  across America can lie, hide evidence and do whatever it takes to get their 100% convection rate for their political gain and we just accept it like the good sheep we are.
    We as Americans are no longer free. We are ruled by a tyrannical Police State with so many abitrally applied laws that any one of us have broken a half dozen before our feet touch the floor in morning. We have allowed our government to dictate what is best for us, where we spend our money, what we are allowed to buy, scrutinized and molested when we travel. We have allowed this so we must live with it or do something about it. “The war on drugs” is a financial mainstay for law enforcement. Its the reason our police have the high tech state of the art ways of spying on anyone at any time. It is the reason thousands of people are dead (Terry). Collateral damage in the name of controlling what’s best for the people at the people’s expense ( not just monetary)

    • TFRX

      Where was all this sturm und drang in the popular media when George W. Bush was president?

      Hint: It got me called a traitor.

  • Lorraine Conley

    There is no-way Katherine Eban, is an investigative reporter.
    Operation Fast And Furious: The Other Side Of The Border (Part 2 of 3) http://youtu.be/G2Bb9kViNjs

  • Jas7

    Why don’t you have Katie Pavlich listed as a Guest!We’re interested in what she has to say-she is a best selling author on the subject of “Fast and Furious”!

  • Ed

    President Obama has supported abortion nationally and internationally, anything that hurts his administration is a good thing.

    • Victor Vito

      Quite a reach, even for you Ed.

    • Don_B1

      Be careful about advocating ANY means to a desired end! Didn’t you learn that at home or in Sunday school?

  • Victor Vito

    This is pretty much a “nothing burger”, that political opponents will mine for every bit of advantage they can.  Not as sinister as Watergate, not as politically significant as Iran/Contra, not as petty and silly as Clinton’s blue dress.

    • Gregg

      It’s a whopper. Read up.

    • Hidan

       Drone attacks kill far more civilians than F @ F yet the outrage came from not what was happening but what was happening got out.

  • AC

    how is the line drawn between what documents are considered too secret for even congress to see?
    why isn’t law enforcement allowed to try (& yes, possibly fail) new programs if nothing else is working?

  • Still Here

    Roll Call and CBS’ Sharyl Atkisson reported on Friday that the wiretap application indicated that the government had evidence that gun trafficking was occurring, that the BATF watched the guns being bought by the suspected straw purchasers, and even followed them in some cases, but BATF then ended it surveillance without interdicting the guns. 
    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-57338546-10391695/documents-atf-used-fast-and-furious-to-make-the-case-for-gun-regulations/

    • Victor Vito

      …and if it wasn’t for “Fast and Furious”, the cartels in Mexico never would’ve gotten their hands on firearms.

      • Still Here

        That’s not really the point, and you know it.

    • AC

      i have to agree w/Mr Vito. it’s pretty naive to assume the cartels don’t have many more means and methods at their disposal to acquire illegal weapons. it’s a pretty big business, alas….

      • Don_B1

        The Mexican government has reported evidence of some 60,000 guns arriving illegally in Mexico from the U.S. over the last four or so years. It would appear that the criminals who killed Mr. Terry would not have been gunless without the guns “observed walking” by the F&F task force.

        • AC

          holy moly!!! how many drug runners are there i wonder? do they really need the whole gun? wouldn’t it be cheaper to just buy additional ammo for the ones they have? 60k guns, are you sure?

    • Worried for the country(MA)

       Was Atkisson unavailable today?  Wasn’t she the journalist who originally broke the story?

  • Gregg

    Remember when we used to laud whistle blowers?

    ““We need to get whatever dirt we can on these guys [the whistleblowers] and take them down.” Thomasson also allegedly said that: “All these whistleblowers have axes to grind. ATF needs to f—k these guys.”Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/06/29/issa-grassley-release-details-about-fast-and-furious-whistleblower-retaliation-cover-up/#ixzz1zSvkwG9X

     

    • Hidan

      Still Linking right wing hack sites. Wow for the liberal Onpoint NPR radio it’s devoted 2 hours (today and Thursday, June 21, 2012) to it.

      How’s Bradly Manning doing? Sure Issa or Grassley must be very concern?

      • Gregg

        What is it with your obsession? The story is credible. You really need to come up with another tactic than shooting the messenger.

    • AC

      what is the whistle they are blowing exactly? I’m not totally up on this story, but it sounds like it was a failed trial program to track the weapons; if there is delay in exposing info, could it not just mean that there are currently officers, or others, still in the middle of this operation that can also be put in danger? the cartels are not known for their patience or justice – they may just shoot first any one they suspect, no? then put their heads on pikes infront of middle schools or at soccer games…..
      i’m still confused as to what exactly they are whistling, tho I do feel Mr Holder shouldn’t be so put-out that questions regarding his leadership are being asked, it comes with the territory if you’re a ‘leader’…

      • Gregg

        They blew the whistle on fast and furious. When they did they were punished.

  • Jas7

    You’re not having Katie Pavlich on! Pavlich is the Author of Fast and Furious:Barack Obama’s Bloodiest Scandal and Shameless Cover-Up.(like you didn’t know!)Your ratings would have been through the roof- because for a good debate and truth ,people will flock to listen to such a rarity!

    • Pancake Rankin in NC

      “Your handlers would have been through the roof,” you meant to say.
      (The art of opinion management was perfected in Boston.)

    • Worried for the country(MA)

       Why have an expert on the show?  It would spoil the message ‘management’.

      • AC

        she’s a reporter tho. it would be better to have a real ‘expert’ in the form of law enforcement, i think -you can ask real questions then…

        • Worried for the country(MA)

           Katie Pavlich is a journalist who wrote an entire book on fast and furious.

          • Don_B1

            Her main claim to fame before her book was being the “Tip Sheet” columnist at the radical right-wing rag, Townhall (mag and website).

      • Hidan

         “expert”? bhahahaha

    • Still Here

      She would be a great guest, would add a lot and she’s extremely articulate.  She has been on this from almost the beginning. 

    • TFRX

      Nothing suspect in that title, is there?

      You’d have gotten more gullibles to believe you if you didn’t mention it.

      Well, there’s always the right wing freebie path to “best seller*”-dom.

  • Worried for the country(MA)

    What is Holder hiding?

    I thought this administration promised transparency?
     

    • AC

      maybe he’s hiding undercover agents?

      • Worried for the country(MA)

         Your contention doesn’t hold water because sensitive information would be redacted.  Not an issue.

      • Worried for the country(MA)

         Maybe you missed it but congress is now looking for information on the cover up.  Holder had to retract several statements he made to congress (including that there was ANY gun running).

        Personally, I don’t like this kind of investigation but  Holder forced it by not cooperating and being transparent.

        Holder could have prevented this by having an internal investigation and firing those responsible.  That hasn’t happened and it has been well over a year.

        Something stinks!!!

    • Hidan
    • Don_B1

      Turning over 7000 documents to the house committee is a lot more transparent than Cheney was in his refusal to cooperate in the investigation of his energy policy discussions with the fossil fuel industry.

      Every time Holder agreed to turn over documents, the Republicans (Issa’s committee) just moved the goal posts so that now they are looking for documents that can shed no light on what happened with F&F, but only on how the DoJ handled its dealings with the committee. While that may be interesting, it does not provide any information on how to correct the problems, if any, with how F&F came to exist.

      One aspect of that, which Republicans clearly would rather not talk about is that the Obama administration has been unable to get an ATF head confirmed by the “put a hold on it” or filibuster Republican Senators.

  • Pancake Rankin in NC

    Holder has a much worse problem: see Due Process.

  • Worried for the country(MA)
    • Hidan

      townhall? Come on your far better than that. Save the rightwing junk sites for Greg.

      “Townhall.com is a website that publishes numerous conservative columnists. Formerly a project of the Heritage Foundation, it was purchased in 2006 by Salem Communications Corporation.”

      http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Townhall.com

      What’s funny is the rightwing Townhall and link provided about written by Katie Pavlich claims FM distorts while doing so herself. She starts out with “fact” but uses opinions to claims such “fact” is true.

      Verdict? Townhall doesn’t thoroughly debunk the FM piece but puts it’s own spin. 

    • TFRX

      Townhall.

      You try so hard to pretend you’re not just another Repub who had to “stop wearing the t-shirts” because the last administration poisoned the image of the elephant, that you’re a centrist, that you’re a fan of Joe (D when Fox wants him to be) Lieberman and his no-fighting style of “liberal”.

      And then this.

  • Hidan

    This is a great example how Fox news and the echo chamber runs the news. Whine and complain the rest of the media is not covering it the “Fox News way” until finally the rest of the media does than beat the story until the rest of the media covering it with Fox News POV.

    Oh BTW how’s Bradly Manning doing? I was told that some Congressman believe that whistler blowers may face retaliation?

  • Hidan

    Also,

    The Weekly Standard is a racist newspaper and was created that way so there’s little doubt some of the F and F may have some racial undertones much like the National Review. Don’t forget many of the same people who work for both are paid contributors to Fox News.

    Why does onpoint use Racist and Bigoted newspapers for source references?

  • Hidan

    I love to see a hour on
    National Defense Authorization Act maybe?

    or 

    the Non-Trial and treatment of Bradly Manning maybe?

    or

    the government ability(sign by the freedom loving republican) to arrest Americans without due process. oh wait can’t the republicans claim Holder as an enemy combatant and therefore no trial is needed?

    or the # of whistle blowers the WH has gone after with the support of Congress?

  • Greyman

    From the posted blurb, the Fortune investigation seems to reveal that Obama’s and Holder’s ATF only accidentally, inadvertently, and unintentionally allowed guns to fall straight into the hands of murderous Mexican drug cartels. How the world views Obama’s exercise of executive privilege and Holder’s continued stonewalling (an inventory of the documents Holder is not providing Issa has been compiled, according to dutiful and professional NPR reporting: what can be said, what could be said actually and fully, about the documents under dispute?). And of course, remind us of the specific number of (semi-) automatic weapons, numbering some 1800 last I heard. And yes, exactly when actually relevant, remind us of how F&F DIFFERS from Bush’s earlier iteration of this operation and tell us in what ways its goals were identical or similar. Here’s to an informative hour of public radio, let’s have coffee!

  • Penmightier

    Let’s all face it, this is nothing but a political witch hunt.

    The Bush administration had a similar program and there is no outrage expressed about it. Congress let it slide.

    If Congress wants a full investigation of policies of gun running to root out evil, then let it happen. Expose it all.

    But this is cherry picking at its best. Congress seems to be painting Holder and therefore Obama with a broad stroke of smear.

    • Worried for the country(MA)

       Let’s face it, if there is nothing to hide then Holder should release the documents.

      My sense is the GOP doesn’t want this but Holder forced them by stonewalling.

      • Rob

         he offered to do so twice and each time his offers were rejected by Grassley.

        • TFRX

          You’re saying another GOP congresscritter wants to play before the cameras instead of doing things like grownup Republicans used to do?

          Thas’ jes’ crazy talk.

          (Full deadpan, but I’m sure you get that.)

        • Worried for the country(MA)

           That offer was a joke.  Sorry.

      • John C

        There might not be anything to hide here, but perhaps the Obama Administration and Justice Department is concerned that key information that would be sensitive to operational matters may become public fodder, jeopardizing future operations.

      • LadyLei

        Then if that’s the case GW Bush did it several of times what was he hiding or rather covering for.  The fact is the documents have other information that could affect ongoing investigations.  Fact, read facts and not the RW talking points.

  • John in Vermont

    As others have pointed out below this is just a bit of political theater designed to distract the masses from Congress’ inability to take action on the real issues facing America.  In the end Congress has no power except to say ‘Don’t do that again.’

    I call it hokum designed to fool the rubes, just like the snake oil salesmen of old did. 

    Why not do a story on how much was spent on Whitewater only to catch two low-level Arkansas characters.  But it sure did take up a lot of Congressional staff time and column inches of press.

  • MrNutso

    Not releasing the documents does not mean that something is being hidden.  If this were really not driven by politics, then Issa’s committee would be working privately with Justice to find out what happened; and if anyone was responsible for the Border Agents death or it was just a series of unfortunate mistakes.

    Regardless, this is another example of politicizing of what should be well thought out policy to stem the tide of weapons being purchased in the US and finding their way to Mexican drug cartels.

    • truth is power

      Right.  The whole purpose of this “investigation” is to broadcast it widely in an effort to further smear the administration. If they were sincere about it, they would work in one of those “quiet rooms” that Romney likes to use.  This is an attack ad, politically motivated. 

  • jefe68

    Fast and Furious is a mess, that’s for sure.
    One thing that I came away with form the Fortune article is how absurdly easy it is to buy a huge amount weapons in Arizona and not nobody says a thing. I don’t know about anyone else but when someone walks into a gun store and starts buying over 10 grand in weapons I’m inclined to think something is up.

    If you’re a collector well that might be one reason. But why would a collector buy 10 to 50 grand worth of mostly the same kind of guns. That part of the story was very, very disturbing. I don’t care how much you support the 2dn amendment, this kind of nonsense makes a mockery of the amendment.

    One other thing, an unemployed kid goes into an gun store and spends 10 grand and the local prosecutor says it’s not suspicious? If this is true something is seriously wrong here.

  • Sean

    Yup, vote Republicans into any sort of power, and this is what you’ll get: petty non-issues conjured up non-stop for petty political gain… meanwhile, the nation faces real issues which require real solutions and action.

    Keep voting in Republicans, and we’ll keep getting more of the same!

  • Guest

    January 21, 2009: “For a long time
    now there’s been too much secrecy in this city. Transparency and rule of law
    will be the touchstones of this presidency. Starting today, every agency and
    department should know that this administration stands on the side not of those
    who seek to withhold information, but those who seek to make it known.”
    –President Barack Obama
     

    June 20, 2012: President Barack
    Obama invokes executive privilege to shield Justice Department documents from
    disclosure.
     

    The simplest way to resolve the issue is
    to disclose the documents.

    • TFRX

      There’s something so naive about how “resolving” something is to the modern right-wing shitstormers.

      How many Republicans still don’t accept the GOP governer of Hawaii about Obama being born there? How many certificates of live birth, do they need to see to convince them of anything?

      Answer: Just. One. More. They promise.

  • rob

    something is wrong with the radio broadcast. It seems your engineer is playing two tracks at once..

    • MrNutso

      Stop and restart if you’re listening on-line.

      • Rob

         thanks! It worked. :)

  • Rob

    Tom please ask Jason Foster some really tough questions and why his boss (Chuck Grassley) turned down two seperate attempts by AG Holder to hand over all the outstanding documents he was allegedly refused.  Ask him why his boss keeps ignoring facts and is trying to imply that this was an Obama program and not one that was started by Bush in 2006. Why are they trying to promote the disingenuous claim that it is somehow a secret attempt to usurp the 2nd amendment. Outlandish claims that have no basis in fact!

    • Don_B1

      Sen. Grassley has a long history of “working across the isle” to bury with Tea Party talking points so he can avoid being “primaried” next time he is up for reelection. In other words, he will make zero contribution to solving almost ANY problem that faces this country, like all the other Republicans, at least up to the moment of total catastrophe if no action is taken.

      So the voters of Iowa need to get out the old nutcracker and shout to take their “old Grassley” back.

  • Scott B, Jamestown NY

    The Republican witch hunt better be careful about how much they dig because they’re forgetting fact, history, and experience here (denying science get’s a break for a change) in that this started under Bush 43, and they’re going to be exhuming bodies in their own back yard.

    Issa, LaPeirre, and the other talking heads, claiming to “know” that the Obama admin is using this to enact gun control, seem to have more ESP and psychic powers than Kreskin and Geller combined. 

    • John C

      Two things here.

      1.)  It didn’t work under Bush 43. Fine lay the blame there.  But the Obama administration KNEW it didn’t work, so why was it continued?

      2.) I agree with you that this IS in fact a witch hunt, spurred on by the NRA (of which I am a member, and sad to see doing this).

      • Scott B, Jamestown NY

         1 – I concede that in this case the admin should have taken a better lesson from the past, but it also sounds like they thought they could do a better job, and tried.

        2 – The hyperbole and conspiracy plots that come out of the NRA, LaPierre’s mouth in particular, is shameful and does a disservice to the NRA and to the public. 

        There’s got to be a saner, more rational, alternative to the NRA for gun owners, like myself,that think that there’s more to the 2nd Amendment than the righto bear arms regardless of what it is.

        We make people prove they can drive a car so we don’t hurt or kill ourselves and others, but many states just require that all you prove is that you’re the person that you say you are, to buy something that’s designed to injure and kill (target practice excepted).

        If you can afford a $2000 Desert Eagle you can afford the $20 gun lock. No one says you have to use the lock, but it’s a good idea – Just read how many kids die from finding a gun. We always hear “The gun was empty”.  Guess it wasn’r, huh?

         Does Joe Average need a 30 round clip for his 9mm handgun?  See the Kathy Giffords incident.

         If you need to use a AR-16 semi-auto to hunt you shouldn’t be hunting, you need to learn to aim, as spraying the woods trying to hit something isn’t  good marksmanship.  It ruins the meat anyway. The only hunters I know that use semi-auto like the AR’s only want the trophies.  Show me a guy with a 5 round clip and a scope on a 30-30 and that guy’s got a freezer full of venison.

        There’s a big difference between owning a .50cal black powder rifle and a .50 cal “rifle” that’s designed to be mounted on top a tank.  

        • Don_B1

          If Katherine Eban’s article in Fortune proves true, the administration did NOT try to repeat the past; actually Chairman Issa has stated that he has no evidence that AG Holder [or anyone else in the DoJ at the appointment level or in the White House] knew of F&F before Mr. Terry’s death, when it was ordered halted.

          Speculation, but it does seem reasonable that AG Holder did at least initially take the “whistleblower’s” thesis, when that was advanced on CBS 60 Minutes, that F&F was a legitimate ATF program when he ordered it stopped. So 

          The lack of a director of the ATF because of Republican refusal to allow his confirmation has led to that body being less “controllable” by the administration, in this case for no good for either the administration or the citizens.

      • truth is power

        It wasn’t continued.  When Holder found out about it, he stopped it.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

    “investigation” implies just watching and waiting. If blame is going to be assigned, blame AZ for having gun laws tailored for this type of behavior to occur.

  • lordanson

    Why are the Democrats so bigoted and apathetic regarding the murders of over 300 Mexicans with these guns?

    • Still Here

      Mexicans who stay in Mexico are not able to vote in the US.  It’s a different story once they enter the US illegally. 

      • mary elizabeth

        Please give evidence of  that statement.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robin-Osgood/100000613415121 Robin Osgood

    Does Katherine think the N.R.A.’s black mailing congress into going ahead w/the contempt vote on Holder have more to do w/disgracing Obama to beat him in November or to end the BEA investigation?

    Which getting rid of Holder would help them defeat Obama and end the BEA investigation which the Saudis black mailed the British into dropping.

    • TFRX

      Holder’s not doing the GOP governors’ bidding about vote scrubbing. He’s seen the laws for what they are.

      That’s created some blowback in the red states’ Keep out the Vote programs. This is the payback.

  • nj_v2

    What, specifically are the documents that DOJ is refusing to release to the Congressional investigation?

  • Rob

     Exactly! The lunatic who gunned down Congresswoman Gabby Giffords was
    able to get several guns and extended clips so easily. There is no
    oversight and the ease with which almost anybody can obtain as many guns
    of almost every type is not just obscene, it is a matter of national
    security.

  • Mike in PA

    (1) They can still detain those individuals following the purchase – if they in fact did not want the guns to go to Mexico.

    (2) If they were relying on advice of counsel in not detaining those individuals, they should have known that position prior to initiating the program.

    (3) The excuse that they didn’t know about gun walking for certain purchases because it was a federal holiday is a complete joke.

    • Shumba

       1. Detain them under what law?
      2. You’re right, the program that was initiated under W admin should have been more clear.

  • Scott B, Jamestown NY

    Why isn’t Katherine being called on by the committee? She seems to have more actual facts than either side? Or is that why she isn’t being called?

    • Rob

      it would interfere with their fantasy. they avoid truth like the plague.

    • TFRX

      I just like how she said “I didn’t cover the motivation of something*  on six months of research, so I’m not going to speculate on it”.

      Sounds like a fine reporter, but with an attitude like that she has no future on network or cable TV. (I don’t even know if I’m being sarcastic or merely truthful with that.)

      More reporters like that on this program, please. Less savvy Beltway Inbreds. We can get all the that we need everywhere else.

      (*The contempt vote? I forget.)

    • Jay Howard

       Lots of people who would support Holder have not been called by the Republicans…for example, the head of the ATF who has supported the Justice Dept. position all along has never been called, also, the head of the program under Bush has never been called although he has often supported the Justice Dept position. Republicans don’t want to call these people because the truth might come out.

    • truth is power

      She’s a woman. 

      • TFRX

        Now, now, that committee meeting wasn’t about contraception.

  • Shumba

    So the GOP members who want no restrictions on gun sales are complaining there aren’t enough restrictions on gun sales?

  • pslong9

    I’d like to echo nj_v2′s question – what are the specific documents that aren’t being released?  The DoJ has already released loads of documents, right? The rest of the media has made it seem like Holder and the WH aren’t releasing anything.

    Also, if the Fortune article is indeed accurate, how is it that the rest of the media has gotten this so wrong?

  • Guest

    Memorandum from Senator Chuck Grassley
     

    To:       Reporters and Editors Re:       Fortune magazine piece on Fast and FuriousDa:      Thursday, June 28, 2012
     
    The Fortune magazine piece on Operation Fast and Furious is problematic in several respects.   Sen. Chuck Grassley began investigating the circumstances of the death of border patrol agent Brian Terry 18 months ago after whistleblowers came to him with concerns.  The following statement is from Grassley’s office.  Supporting documents are available here (http://www.grassley.senate.gov/about/upload/Voth-Eban-docs.pdf).
     
    “The Fortune piece conspicuously ignores the most important fact in this case: ATF encouraged cooperating dealers to sell guns to known traffickers.  That fact is key to understanding how ATF made a strategic choice to track the guns instead of stop them.  The central claim of the article, that there was nothing ATF could have done to stop the illegal sales, is simply incompatible with the evidence.  If it is true that ATF could not interdict and seize weapons due to legal hurdles beyond its control, then ATF had no business telling gun dealers to go ahead with the sales.
     
     “The Fortune article asks the reader to believe that sworn statements by whistleblowers who put their careers on the line to expose the truth for Brian Terry’s family are merely conspiratorial fabrications for the sole purpose of getting back at their boss.  It asks the reader to believe that the ATF Director, the Attorney General, the White House, and Congress all fell victim to the fabrication and completely misinterpreted or misunderstood the thousands of pages of documents that corroborate the whistleblower allegations. The Justice Department retracted its previous denials of those allegations last December 2.  If the Fortune article is accurate, the Justice Department’s December 2 retraction would itself be a false capitulation under political pressure aimed at protecting senior DOJ officials at the expense of ATF field office personnel in Arizona.

    • Guest-2

      With all due respect to Senator Grassley and his investigator on the program this morning, it really appears to be a matter of interpretation on the Senator’s part that ATF encouraged the dealers to make the sales.  I thought the reporter countered that ATF was monitoring sales, not directing dealers to sell.  That’s quite different.  Clearly the Senator believes one thing, but there is evidence to suggest that interpretation may not be correct.

      That isn’t the most important fact, because it may not even be a fact.  There was communication between the ATF agents and the dealers, but its far from a cold hard fact that the dealers were encouraged.  The article is pretty clear that the US Attn’s were less than enthusiastic about prosecuting offenders who purchased and then sold weapons.  The Senator’s investigator repeated at least twice the fact that it is a crime to lie on the purchase form.  Nobody disputes that.  What I’d like to see is the number of prosecutions in the Arizona district of persons who were caught lying on that form.  If there aren’t any, its silly to say that the ATF agents could have arrested these folks at any time, knowing that the AUSA wasn’t going to prosecute anyone.

      Yes, the Justice Dept decided to blame the victims and bury the survivors, to avoid a messy election cycle story about guns and dead agents.  I blame them for that.  But that’s not what the Senator’s committee has asserted, and that’s not what the committee is looking for.  Political embarrassment will get them farther than looking for the guilty.  Rather sad, because there appears to be several of those to go around.

      There are facts, and there are assumptions, assertions, and opinions.  There are lots of the latter in that statement from the Senator, very little of the former.

      • Guest

        from “A primer on the “Fast and Furious” Scandal” by Sharyl Attkisson, CBS News
         

        “A number of Federal Firearms Licensed (FFL) gun dealers in the Phoenix area routinely contacted ATF when they noticed suspicious customers attempting purchases; for example, someone ordering large numbers of AK-47 variant rifles and other so-called “weapons of choice” used by the Mexican drug cartels, and paying with large sums of cash brought in a paper bag. But starting in fall 2009, instead of stopping the transactions or questioning the customers, ATF often encouraged select gun dealers to go ahead and complete suspicious sales. ATF further asked the gun dealers to continue to cooperate by selling to the suspicious customers repeatedly, and providing ATF with names and weapons’ serial numbers. Several gun dealers expressed concerns to ATF: they worried if they cooperated in selling guns to suspected criminals, they would later be unfairly blamed or even prosecuted, and that some of the weapons might be used one day to murder federal agents.”

  • Greyman

    Oh! So Obama’s and Holder’s DOJ/ATF only lackadaisically, ineffectually, and obtusely allowed guns to fall straight into the hands of murderous Mexican drug cartels. That puts a good light on it all! 

    • Sean

      Kind of missed the gist of the entire discussion, didn’t you?

      • jefe68

        He has no intention of listening.
        Not one of the right wingers do.
        They want this story to be President Obama’ Watergate and it’s not.

        • truth is power

          That’s right.  Grasping at anything that blows in the wind past their windows that they might trump up to trash the administration in an election year.  Pathetic! The Congress fiddles while the country burns and all they do is try to stop recovery so they can point their fingers.  However, the fingers are pointing at them.

    • Still Here

      Agreed, it’s pretty clear they messed up big, knew it, and now are in complete coverup mode. 

  • Sean

    What a sickness the gun lobby is in our country!

    Gun dealers are so OBVIOUSLY catering to criminals for profit, and costing the lives of countless people.

    We DESPERATELY need laws that bring the guns market into check!

    Owning and using guns INTELIIGENTLY and responsibly is one thing, but current laws are outrtageous INSANITY!

    • Greyman

      Sean: shhhhhhhh! (Did WBUR’s corporate relations arm even ask Smith & Wesson [of Springfield, Massachusetts] to co-sponsor today’s show? is WBUR keen on this topic at all because S&W does NOT commonly co-sponsor its programming? How would any of us outside of the fair Commonwealth know unless it is told to us? [TIA: I find my S&W .38 a fine example of Yankee craftsmanship.])

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

    It’s kind of ironic that AZ blames the feds for not dealing with illegal immigration, while and at the time they’ve created a system that promotes illegal transactions of weapons that  make it almost impossible for the feds to enforce federal gun laws. And which is contributing to their border problem.

  • Scott B, Jamestown NY

    God forbid that the Congress and the Admin try to fix what’s wrong with the laws, but please – let’s waste time and money making political hay. 

    “You have to run very fast to stay in the same place” – from “Alice in Wonderland”. If that’s not our do-nothing Congress nothing is.

  • William

    Ask the reporter why was this program restarted after the Bush Administration ended it.

    • truth is power

      Wake up…the Bush administration didn’t end it, the Obama administration did.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jim.castronovo Jim Castronovo

    Gosh, the more I hear now about ‘Fast and Furious’ the more it sounds like the amped up obfuscation, distortion and lies that turned the George Bush national guard story on its head and bumped Dan Rather out of CBS.

    • Rob

      my thoughts exactly!

  • Tina

    The second amendment is an outdated obscenity carved out in a deal between the North and the South, with benefits to both sides, the “benefit” to the South being that the landed slave owners could require people of lesser rank to serve on militias and could, thru this amendment, expect them to be armed when they were enlisted to chase runaway slaves or put down slave rebellions.  THIS is the context of gun ownership in our Constitution.  

    • gilscotheron

      Stalin didn’t want his people to own guns either, you get in one hell of a world of hurt when you cant keep government in check.

      • Rob

        Keep the government in check with guns?? are you serious?? I smell a tea party member with all that Stalin nonsense.

        • TFRX

          Maybe they’ve just seen Joe the Plumber’s Little Helper’s latest commercial.

          Shooting fruit on fenceposts would have prevented the genocide of Armenians, I think was JTP’s point.

      • jefe68

        If I were you I would get off line. The Big Bad Government is on too you. Soon the ATF, FBI, DEA, and the IRS will be knocking on your door. And let’s not  forget those black helicopters circling above.

  • Jean Smith

    Obviously our law enforcement is hamstrung when it comes to weapons trafficking. Federal prosecutors are part of the Justice Dept rather than the Treasury agents of the ATF.

  • Emjones

    Tom,
    Just an historical note: During prohibition, the US was plagued with guns being smuggled in from Mexico.

  • Worried for the country(MA)

    The Fortune author is claiming the justice department is incompetent. 

    My question is what is the source of her documentation?  Is she getting everything the congressional investigators have or just selected documents?  Perhaps she only has part of the story.
     

    • Aaron

      And you don’t? I’ll wager that she’s put in more time, effort, and work into finding the truth than you ever have on anything in your entire life. Even if incomplete her understanding of the story behind the story is exponentially greater than anything you’ve read from the NRA or right-leaning blogs.

      • Worried for the country(MA)

         Nice gratuitous personal attack.

        I think my question went over your head. It was totally non-partisan.

        Every response by the reporter was preceded by “based on my reporting”.  My sense is there is much hidden from  ALL right now (including the reporter). 

  • Berteyster

    Katherine Eban shows that while the Justice Dept. under Bush and Obama fell short in that probable cause is difficult to prove, Republicans, namely Reps. Grassley and Issa and Fox, namely Shaun Hannity have circulated a lie that led to the unjust and cowardly censure of our highest law enforcement officer.

  • J__o__h__n

    The moral is, if you are going to botch something, don’t give the program a catchy name. 

    • feettothefire

       F + F.       Foolish and Fucked-Up!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robin-Osgood/100000613415121 Robin Osgood

    You had a caller that had owned a shop that claimed he had been issued a federal fire arms license level one. As a former reporter for a community newspaper, I had done an article on the federal fire arms license level one and the fact that N.R.A. had fought to keep applicantions from being investigation before they were issued so the compromise was only 10% of all applications and reapplications for federal fire arms license level ones were allowed to be investigated starting in the early 90s. They also managed to keep the fee low. This has allowed for these licenses to fall into the hands of the wrong people. They don’t know if these people are legitimate store owners.

  • MrNutso

    If there was money to be made, guns would have been sold.

  • Rob

    Jason Foster comes across as snide and cocky. I don’t understand why he keeps playing Fast and Furious with the truth.. 

    • Still Here

      Maybe because you don’t understand what is the truth…  Snide and cocky because he’s not in the Justice Dept’s pocket?

      • Rob

        No.. It is precisely because I have read all the different reports (from both sides) and after separating the facts from all the smoke and mirrors, It appears that this is a politicized witch-hunt. All funded by the NRA

        • Still Here

          You don’t have access to thousands of pages of documents but the case is closed in your mind.  Convenient.

          • Aaron

            Ironic you’d say this considering the absolutist tone of your posts. You seem to have completely accepted one side of the story as reality. Even if proven completely wrong, like vaccine/autism conspiracists or global warming deniers, you’ll continue to march to your own tune.

  • Wackerdr

    The reporter better be careful how fast she spins this story — she’s going to get very dizzy!

  • Rob

    Fact: Fast and Furious was never ended by the Bush Administration. It was ended during the
    Obama Administration without the knowledge of the Justice dept HQ and
    again restarted by the head of the field-office without the AG’s
    knowledge. When the AG found out about it, it was stopped immediately.

    • Guest

      I find it problematic that if there wasn’t any executive involvement in Fast and Furious, and neither Attorney General Holder nor President Obama were aware of the operation as Holder has testified, then why invoke executive privilege?

      • Charles A. Bowsher

         In this case, it is akin to Attorney Client privilege.

      • Still Here

        It would not be convenient with elections this November, clearly. 

  • Scott B, Jamestown NY

     Katherine seems to be banging her head against deaf, Republican ears.  Again, the Republicans, and those on the Right, denying fact and history, and only wanting to see, hear, and remember what they want to. 

    • William

      How can you say that? This reporter is pointing the finger(s) of guilt towards the US Attorneys involved with this failed program. These US Attorneys work for AG Holder. All the Congress wants is all the documents from the AG. What is so difficult about that?

      • Still Here

        Scott’s willing to live with the coverup, the inconvenient facts and the restricted truth and transparency.  Democrats good, Republicans bad; Obama god.

        • Scott B, Jamestown NY

          What I was saying is that there are answers that will appease Issa and the Republicans. 

          I will admit that Holder should have handled it better with some things.  However, the Republicans have short memories about executive privilege. Dubya’s admin used it a lot, and far quicker, sometimes right out of the gate. 

          At what point does an inquiry cross the line into what the admin needs to do without necessary secrets exposed?  And there are secrets that need to be kept under any administration.  The Right was complaining about leaks, but exposing a necessary tactics to light under the disguise of calling for transparency by the Obama admin isn’t helping. 

            Now Issa and company are making grand leaps in credibility by making hyperbolic statement about some imagined conspiracy by the Obama admin to take away gun rights.  That dog won’t hunt.  If they were  just after facts about what went wrong with the program, that would go a lot further towards their own credibility that they were a legitimate inquiry. But there’s nothing to base that supposition on. ZERO.  If anything the facts show that the Obama admin has furthered gun rights, like guns being allowed in national parks and not going after banning large capacity clips after the Gifford shooting in AZ, just for two prime examples. 
            This just makes the Republicans look even more obstructionist and delusional.  

          No, I don’t think Obama is “God”, and he’s pissed me off plenty. But I don’t hear him making up facts based based on nothing, unlike the Republicans that seem to come up with their ideas from a visual rectal self-inspection.

          • William

             Looking back at AG Holder’s response a reasonable person would conclude that he just did not think he had to respond.  This investigation has gone on long enough and AG Holder is still dragging his feet.

  • Tristan_cherry

    How can most of you callers be calling your guest biased???
    SRSLY!!!
    She is making the very plain point about how these investigations unfolded under the laws of our land. I don;t hear any political positioning on her part, but rather reporter who is finally giving us the story witout the spin

  • MrNutso

    So Jason, you are right and everyone else is wrong.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=650685391 Felix Montebaun

    Prosecutorial discretion!!!  Ultimately, US Attorneys are trying to BUILD a case.  They institute thresholds whereby significant crimes get proper attention.  Otherwise they would be completely overloaded and spread to thiin.  US Attorneys regularly turn down drug, immigration and ATF cases that are prosecutable because resources are finite.

  • Still Here

    I would suggest that the WH is perhaps sitting on documents that could really blow a hole in her story.  These are documents that she never had access to and, based on the steps taken by the WH, they offer some substantial revelations.  She doesn’t seem to want to admit this at all.  In her mind, the investigation is complete.

  • pslong9

    Hmmm… what’s more likely – an independent investigative reporter skewing the facts to help people she doesn’t know, or Republicans (our goal is to make Obama a one-term president, even if it destroys the country in the process) skewing the facts to make the White House look bad?  

    • Guest

      I give a lot more credence to the reports of CBS News reporter Sharyl Attkisson, who has been following the story since inception.

  • Jay Howard

    The author on this program may be a great journalist but she is a godawful speaker, scattered, disorganized and unable to defend any of her points.

    On the other hand, Foster and the Republican callers appear totally ideological and hide behind a technicality on a gun form using it as a fig leaf and pretending the attacks are not partisan attacks. 

  • Charles A. Bowsher

    Who appointed the prosecutors who were dragging their feet?

  • Roy Mac

    I don’t think I know any more about this than I did yesterday.  One thing I keep puzzling over is:  Why would the drug cartels buy guns in WalMart–or whatever gun shops are near the border–at retail?  The cartels are big biz; why wouldn’t they do business with some international arms dealer?

    It seems like the only reason to buy in the US and have registered weapons would be if the intent was to use the firearms inside the US.  Otherwise, why risk it?

    • MrNutso

      Because it’s so easy to buy large quantities of weapons with almost no questions asked.

      • Roy Mac

        Maybe I read too many stories, but it seems like these arms are available by the plane loads, no serial numbers, delivered to your door.  Sounds easier than smuggling them across the border in onesies & twosies, plus tracking down people willing and able to walk into retail shops with grocery bags full of cash.

  • Still Here
    • TFRX

      Yeah, Town Hall. The mark of seriousness.

      And did you miss the part on the top where the Fortune article had a WaPo article (Beltway Inbred fantasical), and a Weekly Standard.

      After previous show on this topic, sans Fortune article, you got at least a third of playing field today, a media propaganda arm which has been deployed to do what it does for your side, and they’ve been fooling a lot of the mainstream which are scared to be seen as liberal.

      And you think you’re underrepresented.

      • Still Here

        Wow, lots of shooting, no facts.  Though that’s your typical mo.

        • Aaron

          Ten rounds, all within the nine ring if you ask me. Your sources are ridiculous.

          • Still Here

            Gotcha, too lazy to educate yourself and blissful in your ignorance.  No wonder you and TFRX agree on everything, perhaps because you’re one in the same. 

        • TFRX

          You’re on thin ice to be introducing the phrase “no facts”.

          I know a low-information consumer of low-information media when I read it.

          And you seem to exhibit the full-on rightwing victimology of needing your side not to just drive the pussy mainstream press (pisspants scared of being called liberal), but everything else.

          When it’s not that way, you can’t even come up with anything reputable to refute it, because your side’s reputable sources all shat the bed in the last decade. They’ve all been run out of existence, like Dick “Not Tea Party Enough” Lugar.

          With cites like yours, you’re better off saying “I heard”, rather than pretending you have evidence.

  • Sirichardl2

     Tom, it breaks my heart that in this country, any 18 year old with a clean background check, can plunck down a bag full of cash and buy 30 long guns legally.  It is a sad commentary on the laws of this nation and our bought-off politicians.

  • crankypants.qcmp

    FINALLY! Someone actually pays attention to the Fortune/CNN report that this scandal is a complete fraud. I hope all listeners will send this link and that to Eban’s original piece to their major media outlet of choice when it continues to parrot nonsense about this story!

  • TomK in Boston

    Congrats to Catherine on the great reporting!

    I hope you guys and gals read the Fortune article. Basically, the ATF was unable to do its job because of our insane gun laws. They’d catch an obvious gun buyer and the US atty or the local prosecutor wd tell them they couldn’t take the guns. I particularly like this quote:

    “Voth got an e-mail from a colleague there: “Are you all planning to stop some of these guys any time soon? That’s a lot of guns…Are you just letting these guns walk?”Voth responded with barely suppressed rage: “Have I offended you in some way? Because I am very offended by your e-mail. Define walk? Without Probable Cause and concurrence from the USAO [U.S. Attorney's Office] it is highway robbery if we take someone’s property.” He then recounted the situation with the unemployed suspect who had bought the sniper rifle. “We conducted a field interview and after calling the AUSA [assistant U.S. Attorney] he said we did not have sufficient PC [probable cause] to take the firearm so our suspect drove home with said firearm in his car…any ideas on how we could not let that firearm ‘walk’”?”

    Straw gun buyers for the mexican drug lords have 2′nd amendment rights too, y’know!

    The sad thing is that the administration will not use this great info to defend itself because it wd offend the gun nuts.

  • Greyman

    The forensic criterion of “curiouser and curiouser” gives a bag full of Higgs bosons-heft to the arguments that impinge upon Obama’s assertion of executive privilege (btw: has the President formally–himself, not on the basis of the prior DOJ announcement of such–has Obama himself yet formally asserted executive privilege in this case, and on what specific grounds?): so many questions beg so many answers, with some questions begging answer as well in advance of November’s election day as possible. Obama’s assertion, whenever it will have occurred, does not provide his Administration with absolutely total exemption from a Congressional subpoena, we understand. (July may be as interesting in its way as June proved to be, off to a hot start.)  

  • Jjohnson16

    Talk-talk-talk!! Overeducated fools on all sides! None of you seem to get it! You all are making assumptions before having all the facts! The most important point at this time is–ALL FACTS MUST BE BROUGHT TO LIGHT. No one should be able to withhold evidence from a congressional investigation, AND the American public! With all the facts-good or bad–we will be able to make the proper decisions how to handle. Without–we just talk–and choose sides—never seddling anything.

    • Steliejim

      Just the fact that 100,000 documents were requested should be more than  enough prima facie (on the face of it that that proven right wing ideloogue, Issa, doesn’t really care about finding out the truth, but is on an open-ended fishing expedition.  What an f—g waste of taxpayers’ money.  Executive privilege was claimed only after 7,000 documents were sent to Issa’s committee.  The admin. finally said “enough is enough!”  Good for them.

  • Bruce

     Too bad most of you listens, or callers, couldn’t really understand the Article or what Ms. Eban uncovered.  If wasn’t guns, say toilets from Canada, NRA and the Republicans would have been prosecuted years ago for Racketeering under the RICO laws.

  • GetRealTom

    The problem isn’t Eban’s – she’ll get a new job or better access if Obama wins – the real problem is Tom’s.  Eban had about 70% of the available air time, most of which – beyond the gibberish -  she spent talking about 18 year-olds in Arizona. 

    The issue is OVERSIGHT, and congress’s responsibility to carry it out.  As I understand it, Holder has provided about 7,000 documents (redacted versions) out of a request that covered about 100,000, and he did so in drips and drabs more than a year after the initial request.   The basic problem is one of the ever-growing power of the executive branch.  I, for one, am glad to see congress actually standing up to it. (Holder really is in contempt!) It’s only a beginning but, who knows, maybe they will develop the guts to take back the sole authority to declare war as granted to them under the constitution.

    • Aaron

      Oh, please! You people didn’t care about “oversight” when the Bush Administration was shredding personal liberties left and right in the name of “security”. You didn’t care one whit when ACTUAL gun walking was occurring under that administration. You cared not when Condi Rice’s State Department or Cheney’s office repeatedly refused to turn over documents or cooperate with Congress in any meaningful way in their investigations into the run up to the Iraq War. So why, now, is oversight SO important to you? Could it be that your righteous indignation is only stoked when the sitting president is one you don’t support? I’m guessing “yes”.

      • Still Here

        Maybe, maybe not.  But I’m guessing a desire for oversight and righteous indigation used to be part of your mo, but now they’re not convenient. Amusing twist of fate.

        • Aaron

          Actually, absolutely incorrect. What makes progressives “progressive” is that we hold ALL our leaders to the same standards, expectations, and moral responsibilities. The problem with the F&F case is that the NRA (of which I’m a member – yes, some liberals DO have firearms) swooped in and immediately saw an opportunity to carry water for the GOP and heavily politicized the story. Remember, virtually the same program ran under the Bush Administration, was KNOWN about, and the NRA said NOTHING. Clearly, obviously, the kept their powder dry for a Democratic President to tar them with what, in fact, is a legacy (and stupid) program. We all would do well to consider the source, understand their leanings, positioning, and alliances, and filter their contentions with a heavy dose of salt.

        • mary elizabeth

          A desire for oversight is a very mature and sane position, nothing to be ashamed of.

          • Still Here

            Thanks.

  • Lgcampz

    This was a plan to attack the 2nd amendment by the left wing Obama administation that backfired.

    • Still Here

      So true, and the msm is completely ignoring that aspect of this story. 

      http://news.investors.com/article/600998/201202131854/fast-and-furious-gun-control-plot-.htm?p=full

      • Pagassae

        Don’t you have some pithy comments from Liberty University to pass along?  Words of nonsense from the insane religious community?? 

        • Still Here

          Why do you feel the need to change the subject so dramatically and avoid facts you can’t refute?  Religion, please.  Do you fear judgment so?  Not confident how your life stacks up?

          • Pagassae

            No fool, I do not fear judgment at all. Judgment from a non-existent god? Incredible.

            Just as I do not fear falling of the Earth if I sail too far out to sea.

            I am that you still do. Here is an update for ya:  the year is 2012, NOT 1220.  Time to change your calendar and your thinking.

          • Still Here

            More avoidance … and moral handwringing.  You must be inclined to hedge your bets. 

          • Pagassae

            Wow, one confused mixed up brain…you are amazing.

          • Still Here

            You’re one to talk. Having no leg to stand on, you shift the discussion to religion and mathetics, making less sense all the while and leaving one to assume you are a bot, and a poorly designed one at that.  Good day.

          • Still Here

            (mathematics)

          • Pagassae

            It has nothing to do with math. Dude, you are SO OUT OF TOUCH….

          • http://twitter.com/TheNuszAbides TheNuszAbides

            some people manage to judge themselves just fine, thanks.

    • TFRX

      Hahahahahaha.

      Keep talking like that and folks may be worried that you’re not of sound mind to operate heavy machinery. But don’t worry, there are plenty of states where they can’t deny you a gun.

      • Lgcampz

        Typical.

        • Pagassae

          Typical respones of a gun, violence and killing loving nut.

          • Lgcampz

            Typical of any liberal who thinks they are elite. Liberal thought is a disease that is insidious and disseminated by the schools and colleges who want to destroy our constitution. you know this is true! 

          • Pagassae

            Ahh, the refreshing response of a party line robot mouthing the usual rightist nonsense and lies. Tell me, has an original thought ever left your brain? I do not think so.

          • http://twitter.com/TheNuszAbides TheNuszAbides

            oops, troll’s been overfed today.

          • jefe68

            You’re kidding, right?
            If you are not, are you aware what kind of ideologue you sound like?

    • mary elizabeth

      With 30,000 plus gun deaths a year in USA and the recent shooting of Gabrielle Giffords, do we really need or concoct such an elaborate scheme to try to enact some sane gun laws?
      The absolute power of the NRA  and it’s truly bizzare rationale borders on psychotic in it’s paranoia.

      • Lgcampz

        An attack on the 2nd amendment is just another phase in the systematic dismantling of the constitution by the left.

        • Aaron

          There is NO “attack” on the Second Amendment afoot! The Obama Administration has made VERY clear, through both word and deed, that they are leaving any gun control decisions in the hands of state leaders. And they’ve been true to that intent during the whole of this first term, even after several horrific shootings including the one in AZ (which has the nation’s loosest regulations) targeting Gabby Giffords.

        • Pagassae

          It would seem that an attack on your sanity is in order. Any rational person, outside of the NRA and its propaganda and lies machine, can see the damage being done to the Nation as a whole.

        • mary elizabeth

          There is no attack on the 2nd amendment any where in sight.  Perhaps you et al should examine your need to feel victimized  even if you have to invent the evidence. 

        • TomK in Boston

          As unrestricted guns flood the USA the wingnuts are worried about “attacks on the 2′nd amendment”, as all the wealth flows to the top they worry about “redistribution” FROM the top, as tax rates hit record lows since 1929 they propose more tax cuts. WTF is wrong with them?

          • Pagassae

            Well said indeed!!

      • Greyman

        Semioticians, hermeneuticists, and lexicographers of the
        Commonwealth, take note: this post can be cited as an example of “DSM
        politics” (the ready ascription or imputation of psychological derangement or
        majadjustment to one deemed a political adversary). Usage example: “Well, her
        argument amounts to little more than DSM politics.” Id est: An assertion that
        the National Rifle Association is dedicated institutionally to the propagation
        of bizarre, psychotic, paranoid ideation or behavior (by further surmise,
        likely schizophrenic in terms of ultimate diagnosis) instantly shows itself to be a bizarre or at least
        distinctly odd statement floating with enough hyperbole to pop the Hindenburg.
        (I’m making it a footnote in my copy of Orwell’s “Politics and the English
        Language”.)

        • jimino

          If your intent was not satire but to actually defend the NRA, I think you just helped her make her case. 

          • http://twitter.com/TheNuszAbides TheNuszAbides

            looks like neither to me.  it’s a verbose mockery of how over-the-top her closing sentence was.

    • Alan in NH

       If this was the kind of left-wing scheme you imagine, then you are a right-wing, paranoid, gun maniac. The Bush Administration ran two operations similar to “Fast and Furious.” One was called “Road Runner”. Look it up. And ease off.

      • Lgcampz

        You are wrong.

        • Lgcampz

          It sounds like you are the one who is paranoid.

        • http://twitter.com/TheNuszAbides TheNuszAbides

          so ‘road runner’ isn’t worth commenting on?

      • Pagassae

        Please do not point out any contradictions in their thinking to the the right wing crowd. They all have amnesia, and have conveniently forgotten the SINS of George Bush. In their book he was a saint, the fools.

        • http://twitter.com/TheNuszAbides TheNuszAbides

          this happens with every tribe mentality, look at “liberal” NDAA apologists.

    • jimino

      And I thought it was an plan cooked up by the NRA to get governmental assistance in its effort to distribute even more guns.  Isn’t that one of its goals?

  • Matt from Ok

    I refuse to believe that with aaall the other encroachments of personal freedoms, the government cannot throw its weight around to stop the movement of these arms across the border.

  • Matt from Ok

    The President can find the will to kill an American citizen overseas with a drone strike but he can’t stop these arms from going over the border.

  • Guest

    President Obama promised us that “Transparency and rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency.  Starting today, every agency and department should know that this administration stands on the side not of those who seek to withhold information, but those who seek to make it known.”   Has he kept this promise?

    • Aaron

      You act as if he’s the only president to have ever made this promise. They’ve all said a variation of the same thing since Eisenhower. Unless you simply admire Obama so much you can’t contain your sense of betrayal, you don’t really have much of a case to make on this point.

    • TFRX

      He wised up to the fact that his political enemies would do anything to destroy him. Hey, they said so on Election night 2008; he tried treating them like adults (for far too long, I believe), and look where it got us.

    • Guest

      Based on the replies, I apparently left off part of the quote.  “…not of those who seek to withhold information, but those who seek to make it known, unless I find out that there is politics in Washington, or that someone else has made the same promise and broken it, then I’m going to hide anything that might be embarassing, or impede upon my fund raising ability.”

  • Lgcampz

    Just give up all the documents immediately, since this administration is “transparent” and let the people see exactly what has happened. Anything less is lawless.

  • Pagassae

    In a Nation now run by a corrupt government, a bought Congress which is comprised of paid off whores, there simply is NOBODY to be believed any more. On anyting. Money and greed run everything.

    The US has literally gone insane.  How sad.

    • http://twitter.com/TheNuszAbides TheNuszAbides

      care to speculate on a turning point?  IOW, when were we ‘sane’?

  • Guest

    Why didn’t Attorney General Eric Holder cite executive privilege the first time the committee asked for the documents, instead of waiting until after seven Congressional hearings, 24 transcribed interviews, and a contempt citation to say that the documents are covered under executive privilege?

    • Anne Arthurs

      Because Holder can’t site executive priveledge, only Obama can. 

      • Guest

        It still raises the question:  if Attorney General Holder knew that the documents would be shielded by executive privilege (after all, he is an attorney and knows which documents are covered by the privilege), and knew that he would advise President Obama to invoke executive privilege, why didn’t he say so the first time the committee asked for the documents?

        • http://twitter.com/TheNuszAbides TheNuszAbides

          presumably something to do with conserving political capital, playing nine-dimensional chess, etc.

        • Cate

          Because the Congressman Issa kept adding to the list…again…and again…and again.

  • mikey

    So either one of two things happened.

    1. (Democrat Line)The NRA has lobbied so hard to water down control laws that the burden of proof is impossible to achieve for an ATF agents in Arizona.

    or

    2. (Republican Line) The Agents created a misguided policy that allowed guns to slip into Mexico and a border patrol agent was killed.

    Unless you have read the law in detail AND investigated past legal precedent AND interviewed all parties involved it seems like it would be impossible to come up with anything other than an uneducated guess determined by your own political perspective. 

    • Cate

      First a major point: If you read the Fortune article you understand that the reporter did exactly what you suggest in your last paragraph.  Thus, her points can be discussed and debated, but dismissing them is tantamount to advertising a “closed mind–don’t bother me w/the facts approach.”
      And a second less sweeping, but important point: Whent he word “Democrat” is used as an adjuctive, the construction is “Democratic.”  When you use the wrong word, your audience is left to draw the conclusion that you get your info from Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, or other right-wing media exclusively.  Limbaugh uses the wrong word as a demeaning insult.  I hope you are not in that category.

  • Brently

    When did the fast and furious program start?

    • rshawk

      1st gun was etraced back from Mexico late in 2009. Bill Newell’s testimony is still on Youtube.  Spanish Etrace was up and running. It was like a statistical science project, complete with “time to crime” data.     

  • Imran Nasrullah

    What I find maddening in all of this, when you look at the death, destruction and ruining of lives whether directly or indirectly from the drug wars, and you compare it to 9/11 and the War on Terror, it pales in comparison to the drug war.  As far as relative risks go, the risk of a 9/11 type attack is far lower than attacks on US citizens as a result of the drug war. Yet, we invested so little in this. I wonder if the same effort that went into fighting WOT went into the drug war, would we have saved more Americans.  I think this drug war is one of our dirty little secrets, that barely gets coverage. 

    • Mike

      Are you kidding?  The reason there are so many deaths is because there is a war on drugs.  Take away the illegality of drugs and the black market profit motive disappears; take away the profit motive and the drug cartels will go away.  Unless, of course, the cartels find some other shady way to get into bed with the CIA and make illicit money.

      • Pagassae

        Exactly.  The US government learned NOTHING from prohibition in the 1930s.

    • http://twitter.com/TheNuszAbides TheNuszAbides

      definitely dirty, not exactly a secret.  partisan motives and/or puritanical blinders just give it a secretive edge, in a “swept under the rug” way.  re: ‘war on terror’ expenditures, i recommend The Shock Doctrine, though i surely have much more to learn on the subject.

  • Alan202

    Some blame the big NRA for the foul-up that is F&F, however it remains that federal law is federal law, and it says that Straw Sales are a no-no, a feloney no-no. The DOJ blew it, the BATFE blew it and Obama et al blew it. Comes now the age old gsme of CYA, as with the invoking of Executive Privilege.

  • Ambien

    I listened to this interview to learn more about Fast and Furious, which hadn’t been forefront on my radar. I learned alot.  What I found most disturbing was not the issue and the Justic department’s curous questionable actions, but that people called in and said the reporter made no sense.  They were also quick to offer their opposing opinions, clearly a lens through which they see.  What ever happened to simply listening to another person to hear the story, their logic?  We as a people are far afield from the ability to listen and discern with openness and reflection before jumping in and creating arguement.   

    • kenrubenstein

      Open minds seem in short supply these days.

    • feettothefire

       That’s the nature of partisan politics today, on every side. “Give me the facts that support my point of view, and I’ll ignore the rest.”   If I had children I’d bet my firstborn that at least 75% of the people commenting here didn’t bother to read the Fortune piece. It would certainly seem to be the case, based on many of the comments I see. Must be too much “information.”

  • Guest

    Ms. Eban makes a lot of good points, even though some folks could not follow them, even going as far to accuse her of bias. I think there are 2 things to conclude thus far, the gun laws in Arizona are so rediculous and the Justtice department needs to be stronger by standing up if they didn’t walk guns, why say they did if that is in fact what happened. 

  • feettothefire

    There’s so much shameful behavior going on here, it’s hard to know where to begin.  Executive privilege should almost never be invoked in domestic cases, which is exactly what this is, Mexican cartels notwithstanding. A good case can be made for using the privilege in the case of national
    security and defense, otherwise it’s rarely anything more than a tool for
    presidents, useful in covering an administrations asses. Shame on Barack Obama for invoking it in this instance. Shame on George Bush for having used it several times, not one of which was necessary to protect national security.  Shame on Democrats who criticized every use of the privilege by the Bush administration but defend it’s use by president Obama, and shame on Republicans who condemn Obama’s use of executive privilege after having had no similar difficulty with Bush claiming it six times. In other words, shame on us for all the 100% partisan foolishness that goes on here every day.                                 Shame on a bunch of career professionals in the ATF who couldn’t resist acting like a bunch of petulant teenagers, put their petty differences aside, and just do the job. Shame on the prosecutors who wouldn’t prosecute. Shame on Holder for his stonewalling. Shame on Republicans in congress for pretending this is only about getting to the bottom of things, while their glee at sticking it to the administration is plain to see. Their belief in the stupidity of the part of the American public that pays attention is  offensive.                                                                                        Shame on Arizona for it’s stupendously ridiculous gun laws.                                                                                                              Mostly, shame on the House of Representatives. Shame on the House Oversight and Reform Committee for the “PARTY LINE” vote on the Holder contempt issue and the similarly near party line vote in the full house. Shame on the cry-baby Democrats who walked out in protest, abdicating their responsibility to the American people. Crying “politics” at Republican actions while pulling that blatantly political stunt makes them look like the fools everyone considers Congress to be.                                                                                            Kudos to the seventeen Democrats and two Republicans who voted on what they believed, rather than what they were supposed to believe.

    • kenrubenstein

      I’d like see you try navigating these shark infested waters. It’s real easy to point fingers, but I can’t even conceive of the superhuman strength it must take for Obama and his administration to try and get stuff done when the sharks are swimming around looking for traces of blood before they enter a feeding frenzy.

      • feettothefire

         What in the world does the political opposition Obama must face have to do with anything I just wrote? I’ll paraphrase what you just said.                                                                                                “The ATF bungled Fast and Furious because Republicans don’t like Obama. Prosecutors didn’t prosecute because Republicans don’t like Obama. Brian Terry died because Republicans don’t like Obama. Obama invoked executive privilege because Republicans don’t like him.”                                    Nonsense!   

      • nj_v2

        Obama apologists are now resorting to shameless whining.

  • kenrubenstein

    This is so reminiscent of Clinton impeachment episode. The Republicans have taken an issue that’s very complex and difficult for the public to understand and made a simplistic narrative out of whole cloth that imputes horrible motives on the administration. If I were a cop, I’d say, “Where’s the motive?” They say, it’s those evil…guess what?

    • Guest

      As with so many other scandals, it’s not the deed, it’s the cover up that is causing the problem.

  • X-Ray

    The author portrays this a the result of some minor uninformed decisions
    made by local prosecutors and agents having no responsibility for the Feds. Yet
    the DOJ in the Administration says this task was a big enough operation to be
    assigned a title, Fast and Furious. The two do not compute. It would seem the
    author’s investigations or interpretations are wrong, incorrect and erroneous.

  • Pagassae

    I see that criminal FRAUD Romney has a new slogan…..  “Repeal and Replace”…those nuts surely love slogans….  And the more empty the slogan, the more the Republican nuts seem to love it. 

    Ten to 1 that slogan is a Frank Dunce, err Luntz speciality. 

    • Brune

      your an idiot!!!!!!!

      • Steliejim

        Um, no, Brune.  There is no chance in hell that there would be a “replace” if the health care bill is repealed.  And, if you had half a brain you would know it.  Even the Repubs have said that there are meny parts of the Bill that are good.  Anyone who thinks that there would be a worthwhile replacement for the healthcare mess we are in, is truly ignorant.  Namely, you

  • GMG

    More breathless outrage from the right-wing noise machine. Please, give it a rest.

  • Alan202

    AG Holder, me thinks, has at least a couple of poblems, one of them being his belief that the law  doesn’t apply to him, he being above the law  I believe his boss might well have similar delusions.

  • Alan202

    Re the “ATF” seeking cooperation from licensed gun dealers, it being the licensing authority, dealer licenses (FFL’s) are renewed on a yearly basis. With regard to a dealer having refused “cooperation” with the ATF, what chance do you think he would have of having his dealers license, his “bread and butter” renewed?

    I suspect he would have 4 chances of renewal, they being Fat, Slim, Little and No, but then, respecting most anything having to do with the ATF or more properly, The BATFE, I might be overly,  suspicious, having followed the transgressions, oops should I say the operations of this agency for some years.

  • Roy Mac

    OK.  I just gave this a second listen and there still isn’t any clarity.  This whole thing sounds like nobody knows what is going on, and it does nobody any good to hear this jumbled-up opinion piece.  It’s a nothing burger, so far.  Callers in can assert that the reporter makes no sense, but they do no more than place her in a crowd of silly political operatives and other ignoramuses.

    So far, it’s still all heat and no light.

  • Pedro Vasquez

    That a US person died as a result of this operation is the only reason we’re hearing about it (PERIOD)

  • Suzanne

    Kudos to the reporter for a clear-eyed analysis of a tricky and politically-charged topic. I find it impressive that she’s able to cite specific documents in support of her reporting. Reminds me of the old saying, when you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras. Eban’s reporting strikes me as horses’ hoofbeats — it’s terrifyingly plausible. The irrational behavior she documents is clearly more logical than the conspiracy theories I have heard. To the extent that gun laws permit this to happen at all, shouldn’t we focus our outrage on that? Ban bulk sales of guns for cash in communities bordering Mexico, and I’m fairly sure the problem would diminish. 

    • Judy

      Please read and respond to Roy Jaruk.  And WHY is the irrational behavior she trumpets clearly more logical than “conspiracy theories” – do you not believe that Wide Receiver during the Bush administration actually traced guns and Fast and Furious did not? Wouldn’t that be a very important point in all of this?? Personally, I don’t want Holder’s head or Obama’s, so I think the congressional focus has been misguided – in order to get to the truth, but, why ignore actual facts that are out there? What actually is in the article that leads you to believe that her “facts” are correct and the testimony of the whistleblowers are not?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Roy-Jaruk/100002539700680 Roy Jaruk

    Ms. Eban may have spent six months investigating Fast & Furious, but it is clear she does not know firearms, firearms dealers, American gun culture, or how the BATFE works.

    Her allegation that Fast & Furious is merely a “reactivation” of a program of the Bush Administration is specious. The Bush project involved a total of 100 firearms, and all had GPS transponders concealed in their grips so the could in fact be tracked. That isn order of magnitude fewer firearms than were involved under the Obamists. Further, not one of the Fast & Furious guns was GPS-equipped.The only way to “trace” one, if you can call it that, is to recover the gun at a crime scene and attempt to backtrack the steps of the gang that had it. Who is she trying to fool?

    The BATFE threatened the gun dealers when they voiced serious concerns over what was going on. The agents needed them to continue selling these guns to people the dealers strongly suspected were “straw buyers.” This was unprecedented. Normally, the BATFE relies on the sellers to spot straw buyers for them, and promptly arrests them. Gun dealers can have their Federal Firearm Licenses revoked for sales to straw purchases. They will not risk their livelihood and jail time for them. Some dealers demanded, and received, letters blessing these sales from BATFE, to cover themselves and their FFLs. 

    The allegation that Fast & Furious would enable the BATFE to trace and roll up the entire gun-smuggling line is nonsense. To roll up the line, you need people on the inside AND cooperation from the Mexican law enforcement community. The Mexican government had no real knowledge of what was going on with this smuggling operation until the story broke in the papers. To call them enraged at this flouting of Mexican sovereignity is to be polite. That single observation negates the roll-up argument.

    Then there is the arrogant refusal of both Holder and Obama to turn over documentation to Representative Issa’s committee and Senator Grassley’s office after they have been subpoenaed. They have no right to ignore a subpoena. Further, the Supreme Court held during Watergate that a president’s executive privilege is restricted only to documents that affect him PERSONALLY. Obama is interpreting that to mean “any document generated by anyone with any connection to the White House.” That is not going fly. Nixon did not get away with that, and Obama surely won’t. Also, the invoking of executive privilege creates a presumption of guilt in the court of public opinion — “Where there’s smoke, there’s fire,” or, what is he hiding and why?

    Considering the lie told by both Obama and Hillary Clinton concerning gun-smuggling into Mexico from the United States, which was completely refuted by the National Rifle Association and other gun rights groups and rammed up the administration’s nose, there is only one possible conclusion as to the purpose of Operation Gun Runner, Operation Fast and Furious, and Operation Castaway. That purpose was to turn the lie told by Obama and Clinton into “truth,” which would then provide Obama with a pretext to crack down on the Second Amendment rights of all Americans. And in my opinion, and that of many American gun owners, that action is an impeachable offense.

    • Gregg

      I would add to your most excellent comment, the program under Bush went beyond the GPS devices and worked with Mexican authorities to put the buyers under surveillance. Those authorities were appalled to learn about FnF, they were not consulted. When the GPS devices were discovered, Bush shut down the program. “Fast and Furious” made no attempt to track the guns. Why? I can’t think of a single reason that isn’t freaky.

    • frey2000

      Thank you Roy. I suspected these things, and finally got the facts. Not even Fox News got it right. I wonder if it ever occurred to Ms. Eban why no dealer was ever charged, even though they committed  1,000′s of felonies by selling to straw buyers?

      This administration has nothing but contempt for gun owners and the entire firearms industry, which employs thousands, and is almost the only sector that is doing well in this economy.

  • http://www.facebook.com/charlesfaris Charles Faris

    When there is no money to be had, the guns lie silent. It’s all about the money, honey, and the money comes from the sale of drugs which are only illegal so that money can be made. The rest of it is collateral damage.

  • Ken

    Much thanks to Ms. Eban for her reporting. I doubt she anticipated the fire she would be taking for highlighting the true outrage of this story which is the vice grip of fear the NRA has on the congress and even the executive branch. What keeps most people from understanding her article is the inability to suspend disbelief at the non-sensical gun laws in this country. The idea that weapons of this kind are even available for sale to anyone is obscene on its face. Add to that the inability to monitor these sales through real-time databases and it is no wonder there is a river of iron flowing south of our border. It is also instructive to observe the conspiratorial thinking which characterize the almost universally pro gun callers during this segment. 

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  • Rob

    This is what passes for investigative journalism these days?

    Shameful.

  • MadMarkTheCodeWarrior

    Sure there have been screw ups, but this “scandal” looks more like a rightwing smokescreen to swamp the administration and BATF with accusations of incompetence rather than expose themselves and NRA to blame for loosey-goosey gun purchasing laws. (I am not anti-gun-ownership: I own guns.)

    • http://twitter.com/TheNuszAbides TheNuszAbides

      sad to think that there’s a reason to preface “I own guns” with “I am not anti-gun-ownership” – no argument intended.

  • Pingback: AG Holder is about to be rung up - Page 5

  • Strytllr

    I’m just curious was there “gun running” to Mexico during the 8 years that Bush Jr. was in office? Or is this cash buying of arms unique to the Obama administration? Was there “strict” enforcement of the current “laws on the books” making it a felony of 5 years in prison for lying on the paper work misstating that he guns would only be used for personal use? If so how many arrest were made during the 8 years of Bush or Clinton to help stop this practice of illegal arms to Mexico? I’m all for transparency no matter who’s in the BIG HOUSE. But when name calling and politics come to dominate the conversation it seems as if we need to start looking a little closer at all of the suspects (administrations) past and present to see where the rubber really hits the road. It’s unfortunate that a young man lost his life-but had he not would we really be discuss this or would it be business as usually? Just asking.

    • http://twitter.com/TheNuszAbides TheNuszAbides

      it does get tedious digging through the overly-personalized angles of many comments/pieces.

  • Buddhaclown

    Republicans fight tooth and nail to make it as easy to buy guns as it is to buy popcorn. Now they are making a big deal about how horrible it is that some criminals got and used guns? It is like hating the health care law and then choosing the guy who invented it as their presidential nominee. It just makes you pause and think, “no wonder they were actually considering morons like Herman Cain or Rick Perry for president.” It is not the party of “no”, it is the party of dumb. 

  • Ronin

    It is because of biased shows like this one that I will never donate money to NPR.  If you want to give the other side to this story, please interview investigative
    reporter Katie Pavlich, who has written the book Fast and Furious:  Barack Obama’s
    Bloodiest Scandal and It’s Shameless Cover-up.  

     

    The guns from Fast & Furious killed two federal agents
    and over 300 Mexican nationals. 

     

    The drug cartels have millions of dollars at their disposal;
    they don’t have to buy guns from U.S. dealers, because they can buy
    fully automatic machine guns on the black market. 

     

    Ms. Eban’s ignorance of the law is appalling:  straw purchases are ILLEGAL; I know because I
    was a FFL Dealer and I have bought firearms and signed the required form.

     

    I am tired of hearing the canard about the AK-47 being an “assault
    rifle”.  The ones sold in the U.S. are semi-automatic:  one pull of the trigger results in one shot;
    this technology has been around since the 1890’s and is the same as used in
    modern hunting rifles.  Plus, the round
    that it shoots, the 7.62x.39, is relatively low-powered compared to modern U.S. hunting
    rifles. 

     
    My prediction is this: 
    the scandal surrounding Fast & Furious will eclipse ‘Watergate’ and
    the ‘Iran-Contra’ scandals. 

  • Williamwkemp

     Holder is the racist! He refused to prosecute the Black Panthers for their interfering in the election! He only wants to prosecute white people. He is the dumbest Att. General the USA has ever had. The only good thing is he’ll be on welfare when he leaves office, or in jail!

  • Pingback: The Latest on “The Truth about the Fast and Furious Scandal,” Fortune Magazine | Katherine Eban

  • CSM

    What do you need a gun for?

  • YouDidntBuildThat

    Of course NPR would take Holder and Obama’s side to this story. NPR is funded through tax payer money so of course they wouldn’t want to have a negative story about their boss, Obama. After all, when you have democrats in office, NPR receives more funding for their propaganda. I hope when Romney/ Ryan are elected they stop funding NPR with my tax payer money and their left wing, garbage political spin. NPR should be running scared right now.

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