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Obama Ends Some Deportations

The Obama administration ends deportation of young, clean-record illegal immigrants. We’ll look at the policy and the politics.

Students from left: David Buenrostro, Adrian James, and Jahel Ramos protest outside the Obama campaign offices in Culver City, Calif., Thursday, June 14, 2012. The students demand that President Obama issue an executive order to stop deportations of illegal immigrant students in favor of the DREAM Act, Development, Relief, and Education for Alien Minors. In July 2011, California Gov. Brown enacted the California DREAM Act, giving illegal immigrant students access to private college scholarships for state schools. (AP)

Students from left: David Buenrostro, Adrian James, and Jahel Ramos protest outside the Obama campaign offices in Culver City, Calif., Thursday, June 14, 2012. (AP)

Barack Obama has been downright harsh on illegal immigration.  In three years, he’s deported more illegal immigrants than any president in half a century.  But not last week.

In a dramatic move on Friday, the president announced that he would, by executive order, stop deportation of young, clean-record illegal immigrants.  Give them work permits and a legal path to life in the United States, where they grew up.  It’s a short-term patch, but with big humanitarian and political implications for a president running hard for re-election.

This hour, On Point:  the president’s big young migrant move.

-Tom Ashbrook

 

Guests

Jake Tapper, senior White House correspondent for ABC News.

Joe Dana, a reporter and anchor at KPNX Channel 12, the NBC affiliate in Phoenix.

Victoria DeFranco Soto, a fellow at the Center for Politics and Governance at the LBJ School of Public Affairs at the University of Texas.

Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies.

From Tom’s Reading List

ABC News “President Obama is relaxing rules for younger illegal immigrants who haven’t broken the law since coming into the country as children, a move certain to rile Republicans.”

Time “In a dramatic shift in policy — and a day after TIME’s cover story — the U.S. government said Friday it will give eligible young undocumented residents work permits and not subject them to deportation.”

Los Angeles Times “It was early Friday morning, and UCLA graduate Maria Gomez had only heard some of the news — something about President Obama granting immunity to young illegal immigrants like herself — when the congratulatory text messages began flying in.”

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  • http://www.facebook.com/ccosteno Carlos Costeno

    these kids has no fault for being in this country with a negative status because their parents brought them here when they where todlers.
    they think like americans,the are americans and all of them are palning on making this country their home land for ever and ever.

    • William

      What would you do to discourage more of this illegal behavior? Or just have open borders and not worry about the millions of illegals that will come here? What about those legal immigrants that have been waiting for years to come here? What about the idea of respecting the rule of law? Should we all just ignore laws we don’t like and teach our children to ignore laws they don’t like?

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Catholic clergy have been ignoring the laws for decades, or hundreds of years!  WHAT have THEY been teaching our children?

        • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

          Don’t put Catholic clergy into a single basket. Some of my mentors are Catholic clergy who deliberately violate laws that are unjust. They teach a most valuable lesson. 

      • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

        We don’t control people to protect our borders. Borders exist only to control people.

        Look at the Apollo pictures of the earth. There are no borders.

  • Noam Trotsky

    A sad and cynical political stunt to prepare segments of the electorate for the election.

    If your parents brought you here illegally, and never told you this, your parents have done you wrong.

    Should we just throw our hands up on illegal immigration and just give up?  Let’em go to college, give’em jobs and home mortgages?

    At this point I might settle for ANY plan that was comprehensive and logical.  No more piece meal hypocracy.

    • bellavida

      So what would your plan be?  Enlighten us; please.

      • http://www.richardsnotes.org Richard

        sorry, I posted my comment in wrong place…

        • bellavida

          Delete? Why?

          • http://www.richardsnotes.org Richard

            My apologies, I meant to say please delete my comment which was started in the wrong place. DISQUS doesn’t allow a mistaken comment to be deleted by its author so I was asking admins to delete mine, not yours and I stupidly left out the additional context.

    • http://www.richardsnotes.org Richard

      Noam: how far back should we go with your idea?

      If someone’s great grandparents came into the country illegally in 1900 and they’ve been here for multiple generations, should we deport them?

      • Noam Trotsky

        I wouldn’t make an argument of absurdity, that’s for sure.  I guess everyone not living in Africa is some sort of alien, right?

        • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

          The argument is hardly absurd. 

          I’m wearing a t-shirt right now that has a picture of Native American warriors and that says “Homeland Security – Fighting Terrorism Since 1492″.

          Those of us who violently seized this land from its inhabitants can hardly complain about those who merely come here to support their families.

          • http://www.richardsnotes.org Richard

            Well said Robert.

    • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

      Undocumented aliens are not “illegal”, any more than is someone who borrows a library book without a library card.

      We should be concerned about real criminal behavior, not the failure to fill out some paperwork.

  • Sam Walworth

    Not sure how people will vote after this announcement in Nov.

    However, this announcement has surely made Mitt seeking somewhat softer stand what he took during the Primaries and that has shaken my confidence in him.

    Mitt, please stand up for your values..

    Deport Them ALL!!

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Including Mitt’s father, that was born in Mexico?

      • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

        And who went to Mexico to avoid laws against polygamy.

  • Still Here

    This is pure pandering and back-sliding on Obama’s part.

    Obama at a Univision town hall in March 2011 literally said he could not suspend deportations by executive order. He even gives an explanation about how laws are made in the United States before stating that ignoring the laws would not be an appropriate thing for him to do as president.
    He will do anything to get re-elected.  Obama’s criminal administration needs to be sent home.

    • Gregg

      He doesn’t care about any stinkin’ laws.

      “This is not the first time this president has shown indifference to the
      rule of law. The commerce clause? Puleez. The individual mandate is the
      right thing to do. Hand out bushels of Obamacare waivers to political
      allies? Of course, it is the right thing to do. Invent privileges to avoid investigation. Appoint rafts of czars outside the Senate confirmation process. Trample on General Motors bondholders’ interests to bail out the United Auto Workers. Use taxpayers’ money to reward fat-cat contributors peddling “green” energy snake oil. It is all the right thing to do.”

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/obama-vs-the-rule-of-law/2012/06/16/gJQAKm8dhV_blog.html

    • Noam Trotsky

      Don’t act like the conservatives have the answer to this issue.  the right wants illegal immigration and workers at least as much as the left, albeit for different reasons.  Righties enjoy the cheap labor and the suppression of unions and wages that they provide. 

  • Yar

    Folks, if you want somebody to take care of you in your old age you better change your attitude on immigration.  Our country is getting older and fatter, this does not bode well for the American dream.  We need to aggressively recruit young healthy workers to survive as a nation.
    This discussion has already digressed into partisan rants. What is best for America?  Establish a route to full citizenship for young workers with skills. Why would anyone want to deport a person that our taxpayers educated?

    • Pancake Rankin in NC

      Partisan rants come from a can. 
      I like this blog best when people do some scratch thinking. Ray, you would not believe  how dumb nursing grads from community  colleges are. They will give you any amount  of any med without a thought or question. Wait a minute, so will the doctors if zombie care is indicted (if you complain), or it can win them a pharma premium (usually a speech honorarium). The average elderly woman survives but two years in assisted living/nursing care, the average elderly man only 18 months, even with caring family and friends. Once you leave your house or apartment your epitaph is set in stone. That’s America! Our salons have degenerated to corn hole and Bingo here in Gaston County. Talking to strangers or using three syllable words can get you in  trouble. Televised county  commission meetings consist of grunts, nods and winks.

  • Pancake Rankin in NC

    The argument by right wing racists that “Obama’s Daydream Policy” (2 year forbearance for younger undocumented immigrants) does not meet their criteria for a “Final Solution” is gallows humor. Romney can’t make up his mind. Maybe if busboys and ditch-diggers under 30 move to Maiden, NC, attend hate church regularly, and help build a fence about a hundert-mile-long to put us gays in  they can stay. 

    But in the precipitate from distillation (toxic sludge) we find it hard to slide a piece of copy paper between the  Democrat and  Republican positions. It’s nice wage slavery while you can get it and you can get it (without penalty) if you try (contribute to the Duopoly). When you keep your “Mexxycoons” in a trailer behind your ranch house like hound-dogs you  can call them boy and they can call you  patron. That  Old Testament arrangement hurts everybody. (It puts sadists in the driver’s seat.) Even the science journal Nature can’t  provide “Deliverance.”

    • Pancake Rankin in NC

      Strangers to Adversity-How far do you live from Maiden?
      I live about 20 miles away.
      The “unwelcome foreign laborers” from there drive 40 miles to pick peaches in SC. (The glove factory and the chicken packing plant both moved to Guatemala.) It takes a fit worker to pull and carry that fruit. My old stove-up disabled clients with utilities cut off can’t do it and all the  townies around here think their schoolkids will be playing professional sports or marrying a bling rapper when they graduate. Some younger moms and I picked our own yesterday and are  making pies today. Processing is slower with cling varieties but the freestones will come in around July 4th. I’m springing for the Cool Whip. All the guys and girls wanting to be President or in Congress are welcome to come sit under the trees on the farm with us and debate who’s pie is better. (They avoid real people. No time for actualities.)

      • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

        Be careful about letting people here know where you live. You might find books burning on your lawn ;-)

        • Terry Tree Tree

          OR crosses, OR marshmallows?

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            Maybe even Smores.

          • Pancake Rankin in NC

            Duke Energy (+Progress Energy) does most of the burning here (Rate hikes, hot bankrolled local office cronies (Pat McCrory), coal emissions, coal slag in  the  reservoir,  and elevated, overloaded nuclear waste tanks). The Democratic Party is being  held here so delegates can taste the toxic  waters Oligarchy serves. Instead of union help at the facilities they prefer economic refugees (like DSK). Maybe Obama can drive a “clean coal” car around the Bruton Smith Speedway and peel off to BofA stadium to accept the Olympic torch. All of you can find McAdenville on the map if you need me. Just shine that big Pancake projection laser into the clouds.

    • Brothersower88

      I can empathize with your feelings about the churches you have encountered.  Unfortunately, a good number of them are not acting in line with Jesus’ teachings and actions.  “Hate churches” as you call them, are the exact thing that Jesus was fighting against in his time (legalistic Pharisees who have no real power, but have the ear of the people).  Jesus always took time to show love and treat the social outcasts well.

      If you wish to despise something in about Christianity, I would encourage you to chastise the perverted way that its “followers” have chosen to follow, rather than the essence of the religion itself.

      PS
      Your comment “Old Testament arrangement” seems too narrowly confined if you are actually trying to make a point about the situation instead attacking a religion.  Slavery of one kind or another has been in existence long before the nation of Israel was born or the Old Testament written. Sargon had a massive empire and hundreds of thousands of slaves.  Egypt was also powerful and had slaves before Abraham even settled Canaan. Picking on the Old Testament doesn’t help your argument.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        I think Pancake was exposing the ‘Christians’ that maintain in Hate Churches, with their HYPOCRICY, instead of the teachings of Jesus Christ.
           Whether these Hate Churches are in actual majority, or there are really more Christians (Followers of Christ’s teachings), seems debatable.

        • Brothersower88

          It is easy to accuse a religion, that calls its followers to strive for perfection, of hypocrisy.  What do you accuse someone/thing of that has no standardize set of morals or beliefs? 

          No one points at secular humanist, agnostics, satanists, (or even outside religion; radical political groups like WWII Nazis, the USSR’s slaughtering of millions of its citizens, South African apartheid), etc of being hypocrites.

          As to whether or not “Hate Churches” are the majority or minority, I would be inclined to think them in the majority which saddens me.  Expressing virtues is harder than pointing fingers especially when the virtues include grace and love.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Brother, I have stated MANY times, on here, and especially in person, that IF someone is trying to live the Christian life, I have the highest respect for them, because I have enough exposure to it, to know that it is NOT an easy life to choose.
                I am exposed, almost daily, to people that claim to be a ‘Christian’, that have far worse morals than I do.
            Their HYPOCRICY is so blatant, and so damaging to the Country, and the World, that I have started exposing and denouncing their HYPOCRICY.

          • Brothersower88

            I understand and actually agree about people claiming a title without living a life.

            I just want to hear your answer to my question (if you don’t mind):
            What do you accuse someone/thing of that has no standardize set of morals or beliefs (relating to hypocrisy)?

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Interesting and challenging question.  I’m not sure that I am qualified to label what I would accuse them of.  Certainly many of those you listed, have actions and attitudes that are DANGEROUS  to society.  If a person is open about their beliefs, or lack of them, I cannot fault them for something like hypocricy, if they are not hypocritic.
              I’ll try to address this more, later, as it is not conducive to a quick answer.

          • Brothersower88

            I respect your response, and look forward to chatting again in the future.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Nazis were HYPOCRITES, because they promoted the concept of the “Master-Race”, yet relied on the creativity and ingenuity of the ‘Inferrior Races’, for many of their technical ‘achievements’!

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            Perhaps you should review your history. The Nazis and the S. African apartheid regime were Christian, as were the Crusaders, the witch-burners and the Chaplain who blessed the Enola Gay before it incinerated Hiroshima.

            Far more harm than good has been done in the name of Christ – so much so that any moral person should be ashamed of calling themselves Christian.

          • Brothersower88

            If “Man A” hears Robert Riversong say something, and acts on that while lacking context or understanding, are you held responsible for what Man A does?

            If “Woman B” reads something Robert Riversong has written and deliberately (or accidentally) twists what you wrote to her own benefit (or sadistic desires) would you be ashamed to be you?

            It is hard to control what someone does in your name.

            Christianity is relatively simple.  One must try to love God above all, then love others as yourself.  It is not my place to judge somebody’s salvific status, but these two guides would seem to make those atrocious crimes hard to accomplish by true followers.

            Humans do “bad” things. Is it better to attempt a different path or accept the “bad” as a course of life?

            PS  I like how you left out the USSR in your reply.  They killed over millions of their own people and are notoriously anti-religion.
             

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            “Christianity is relatively simple.”  

            It’s more accurate to say that born again Christians are simpletons.

            Why was Marxism opposed to religion? Because it correctly perceived it as an “opiate of the people”, turning them into mindless sheep.

            There is no historical evidence that a man named Jesus ever existed, nor any contemporaneous record of anything he allegedly said.

            The myth of Jesus was copied verbatum from other myths of virgin birth, god’s son, healing the sick, raising the dead, walking on water, death and resurrection after three days (this was universal in the region among all pagan traditions).

            The Golden Rule existed before all modern religions and everywhere on earth. No religion is needed for ethical behavior, as it is self-evident. 

            What the transcendent monotheisms (later replaced by transcendent rationalism) did was remove humanity from its embeddedness in the real sensual world of nature from which all good comes and in which all ethics inheres.

            Religion is for those who cannot tolerate reality.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            If they sink and drown, they were Christians, If they float and survive, they’re witches to be killed?

          • Pancake Rankin in NC

            Let us value them by their fruits. Some racist hate churches in  my neighborhood are throwing some rotten peaches. And the other Christian outfits who plug their ears and sit on their hands while this goes on are accomplices. Politics ain’t theology class because it is real, and frequently a matter of life and death.

  • Ed

    Many people have been deported under President Obama so far, this is an attempt to hide that record.

    • Pancake Rankin in NC

      Accurate observation. Will the new compassionate overlord lay off those expensive ICE parasites or just put them under Walmart management? Here in opulent Gaston County we have a police for every 22 people when you  consider town and city police, state troopers, sheriiffs dept and county mounties. Add on immigration, TSA, ICE and Homeland  Security and you  nearly have a hired gun  in  every home. Do we feel secure in our property yet?

      • Gregg

        I am right up the road in Alexander County. It’s a different world than Gastonia where I have spent a lot of time playing music for the last 30 years. I wouldn’t draw any conclusions based on what happens there.

        • Pancake Rankin in NC

          What I’m wondering Mr. Smith is whether any locality has enough police to separate plantation operators from their slaves.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      A Catholic WHINES about hiding records?

      • Brothersower88

        You are one of my favorite opinions to read, but how do you know that Ed is Catholic?

        Do you just recognize the handle from previous conversations, or am I missing something?

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Ed has posted MANY of the Catholic clergy diversions from their glaring CRIMES, for months.
             I have NEVER seen a comment from him, or William, directly condemning the RAMPANT Child-Molesting and Child-Abuse, of Catholic clergy, but I have seen MANY comments by them with DIVERSIONS.
             Neither has answered my question to them of them being a Molesting-clergy member, since they support them.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          By the way, Thanks for saying that I am one of your favorite opinions to read.
             I hope that is because I try to put reasoned thought into most of my comments. 
             HYPOCRICY, religious, political, business, or other forms, are DAMAGING to the Country and the World! 
             As a Volunteer Fire-Fighter, Volunteer Rescue Squad member, Volunteer Medical First-Responder, or Construction Worker ( which pays for the above EXPENSIVE Hobbies), HYPOCRICY, or other lies, CANNOT have a place!

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            “I hope that is because I try to put reasoned thought into most of my comments.”  

            Try is the operative word.

          • Brothersower88

            Where you angry today? 
            I read through what you have posted.  Very little was constructive.  It appears that you came here to find any perceived weaknesses you could find and expose them in a self-inflating manner.

            Might be nice if one had to post an actual opinion to be read by the community before randomly spewing bile across the forum.

            Or are you just trolling today?

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            “Where (sic) you angry today?” 

            Brother Christchild, your unChristian inner demon is showing.

            And it doesn’t take much to bring it out, revealing the falsity of your faith (which you can conveniently dismiss as the inherent weakness of all born into the fiction of original sin).

            What is truly “self-inflating” is assuming that you have the power to elicit emotions from me. I am always calm and rational when I comment here, but you seem to be seething with so much repressed anger that you can’t even type straight, and in your denial you project it onto me.

            I don’t have to search for “perceived weaknesses” since you shout them out from the steeple tops.

            And I don’t “troll”. I fish for counter-factual, illogical, poorly reasoned, or ideologically biased comments and then expose them for what they are.

          • Pancake Rankin in NC

            Look, if you are Catholic clergy (active or lapsed) just admit it and get it over with.
            I never considered that William might be a member of an order until TerryTT alluded to it.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            The best that we can do, is TRY, with the best TRY we have?
              MANY have far more polarized positions than I do?
              MANY refuse to concede ANY point to someone they see as their opponent?
               Although there are people that I usually disagree with, I am not bashful about agreeing with them, and letting them know, when I do.
              Your background, training, and experience differs from mine, and therefore we will agree, and disagree.

            Good Life and Good Luck!

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            Now it’s not only gratuitous CAPITALIZATIONS, but question marks on declarative sentences????.

          • Brothersower88

            You’re one of my favorites because we hold mildly oppositional opinions, but you speak in a way that I generally can follow your train of thought and understand your point of view. 

            You also engage in delightful discussion rather then disseminating your opinion and never looking back to see if someone might have a question or comment.

            I still haven’t figured out why you use CAPS sometimes, but it doesn’t detract from the overall readability of your writing (and perhaps it actually cuts through to draw a readers attention as they skim the forum).

            The “other” can only be demonized (and possibly maliciously destroyed i.e. genocides) if it remains unknown.  Differences are good.  Cool-headed conflict can create some brilliant ideas and collaborations. 

            Finally and most importantly, you very rarely (if ever) us ad hoc methods to prove your point (at least that I have seen of you). 

          • Brothersower88

            Meant ad hominem (not ad hoc).

            Although I do get the impression you struggle with this when it comes to the Catholic abuse scandals, but I am too ignorant to comment further.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Child-Molesting and Child-Abuse are serious CRIMES, not just pranks!
               ‘Men of God’ are presenting themselves as leaders of the Way.
               Clergy are Authority Figures.
               Catholic clergy decry Homosexuality as an ‘Abomination’!
               The HYPOCRICY of the Catholic clergy, is thus GROSSLY CRIMINAL!

          • Pancake Rankin in NC

            Yes, unless you relish teaching genital hygiene like Coach Sandusky.
            I doubt he remained cool- headed during these sessions.
            The fascists were instructed last year to use the phrase “honest debate” while slandering and threatening but I think that wore itself plumb out.

      • Pancake Rankin in NC

        According to the Butler, Pope Bentdict has set numerous records.

  • Markus

    Leaving aside the problems of illegals today, think what an incentive this is for the hundreds of millions (or is it billions) in this world that would like a better life for their kids here. If you’re a parent in a poor country, you might figure that you just need to get your family to the US, lay low taking farm work, construction, gardening, cleaning and other jobs while your kids get a free education and one day they will become citizens. Given history, there’s a good change you won’t be deported yourself or may even be given amnesty.

    The problems we have today from the ten to twelve million in this country illegally will become a fond memory.

    I’m sad for the plight of the 3 billion or so on this planet who live a largely miserable existence. But we need to think past our emotions and consider the long term for this country.

    • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

      You betcha. That’s what Americans are famous for: being cold-hearted bastards who care only about ourselves (even though all our ancestors – unless you’re Native American – made the same kinds of sacrifices to come here for a better life for their children).

    • Don_B1

      You have a strong point, but when people see starvation or emigration, the latter will almost always win, particularly for people who are creative and entrepreneurial. But the coming effects of climate change are going to make the mass migration problem of today look like a panacea.

  • Brothersower88

    I really like the idea of having a way for illegal immigrants (IIs) to become legal, but I do not like the method he chose to employ to do it (or that fact that his timing screams “give me your votes!”  He could have done the same thing a year ago and saved many deportations and livelihoods if it was only about “helping people”).

    My problem is with the method:
    1) Executive orders can be reversed or cancelled very easy compared to legislature from congress, so if Obama doesn’t get re-elected the next president (whoever that may be) could very well just reverse it.  All of the IIs would then have given their location and job history to the Federal government which could possibly be used against them.
    2) With this executive order in place, where is the motivation to actually get a law passed to help these people in the long run?
    3) An unnecessary use of executive power instead of finding a way to work with congress.

    PS
    If the president and congress can’t work together than something is horribly wrong (and both branches and parties are to blame).  When the word compromise becomes a negative word, not much is going to get done.  Both parties’ constituents think they are getting the worst end of the deal (which in particular issues may be true), and both parties’ candidates encourage this thinking so they can get re-elected easier (its their fault we didn’t get “X-Problem” fixed).

    • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

      “both branches and parties are to blame”

      Hardly. Though I’m no defender of the corporatist Democrats, the Republican leadership made a decision to do whatever was necessary to make Obama a one-term president and to block everything he tries to pass through Congress. No previous Congress has ever been this obstructionist.

      The also all signed Grover Norquist’s “no new taxes” pledge, even if it means the economic collapse of the nation.

      The blame is almost entirely on the right side of the aisle.

      • Brothersower88

        Almost, isn’t all.  I chose my words carefully, you should as well.
        “I’m no defender of the corporatist Democrats” proves my point that you acknowledge that both parties are to blame.

        Both branches and parties could give up something to make trades, but the word “compromise” has been demonized (by both parties).

        • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

          Brother Christchild,

          I choose my words far more carefully than do you, and don’t need any coaching from a faith-based pedant.

          You continue to make it sound as if blame is equally shared. I stated – correctly – that almost all of the blame is on the Right side of the aisle.

          Obama has been trying (far too much) to engage in compromise, as have the Congressional Democrats – giving the free market a major give-away in the Affordable Care Act, for instance.

          Go back to your Bible, since you seem to know nothing about politics (and precious little about the reality of Christianity).

          • Brothersower88

            “The blame is almost entirely on the right side of the aisle.”

            I never specified where the majority of the blame was, but you did include that it was on both. 

            You have agreed with me from the beginning that it is both parties, yet you still chose venom instead of calm discourse.

            I have no qualm agreeing that Republicans have been very difficult in trying to get legislation passed, but since it wasn’t the crutch of my argument, I didn’t want to get off the topic like we currently are.

            Your comments show no hint of trying to learn or understand, so I will not be commenting further with you, but I do hope that you learn to communicate with less violence in your method.  People will be more understanding and may come to appreciate your words.

            PS Ad Hominem tactics are one of the weakest forms of informal fallacies.

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            First, I have never agreed with you on anything. You made a patently false statement about equal responsibility. I (twice) demonstrated its falsity, and you persist in pretending that you said something either valid or relevant.

            And it was “the crutch (sic) of [your] argument”, as you rely on nothing but intellectual and faith crutches to hobble your way through life.

            P.S. Ad hominen is a logical fallacy only if the disputant’s character is irrelevant to, and a distraction from, the argument. When it is relevant (as it is here) then it is an appropriate part of the discussion and in no way a logical fallacy.

            You clearly have as little comprehension of logic as you do of either politics or religion.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        My sentiments on this issue, exactly!

        • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

          Didn’t mean to make you sentimental.

      • Pancake Rankin in NC

        (paraphrasing Paul Simon-”Some People Never Say the Words I Love You”)

        There’s a Wall in China,
        It’s a thousand miles long,
        To keep out the immigrants
        They made it wrong.
        And there’s a wall around America,
        That you can’t even see.
        It just takes a little time
        To get next to me.

        (*Human populations diffuse like fluids through a membrane. Natural forces are relentless and too costly to resist.)

        When something goes wrong 
        I’m the first to admit it.
        The first to  admit it
        And the last one to know.
        When immigration goes right,
        It’s likely to lose me.
        Apt to confuse me,
        It’s such an unusual sight.
        We can’t get used to something so right, 
        Something so right.

    • Don_B1

      With the Republicans “firing up” their base with hard line anti-immigrant rhetoric, there is no way that Obama was going to find a legislative solution to the immigrant problem. There are those that keep talking that after the election a solution can be found, but I am not that sanguine.

      Obama campaigned on this issue and whether he could have done something in the 14 weeks that he had a 60 Democratic Party alignment majority in the Senate (including 2 Independents, one being Joseph Lieberman) is doubtful, when you consider that that was the period that the healthcare bill was of primary importance.

  • Hidan

     Has not the famous political Fable of the Snake, with two Heads and one
    Body, some useful Instruction contained in it? She was going to a Brook
    to drink, and in her Way was to pass thro’ a Hedge, a Twig of which
    opposed her direct Course; one Head chose to go on the right side of the
    Twig, the other on the left, so that time was spent in the Contest,
    and, before the Decision was completed, the poor Snake died with thirst.
    Queries and Remarks Respecting Alterations in the Constitution of Pennsylvania reported in Albert H. Smyth, ed., The Writings of Benjamin Franklin (1907), vol. 10, pp. 57–58.

    Republicans and democrats fight for the direction that will be taken about immigration and a list of other things while nothing gets done. 

    Of course obama actions were done for political reason much like Reagan’s actions were done for the same.

    • Brothersower88

      Just because someone’s actions are understandable:

      “Of course obama actions were done for political reason much like Reagan’s actions were done for the same.”

      doesn’t make them correct.

      Thought experiment:
      Financial CEOs can pervert the current system and make millions of dollars with no personal risk, but risk for the FDIC tax base.  Its understandable that they can and that they might want to, but is it good or right?

      • Don_B1

        It certainly is true that understanding the reasons for an action do not make them correct, but also do not make them incorrect.

        From polling data that I have seen, most Americans seem compassionate for young children that did not make the decision to come to the U.S. and have lived here all their lives. For them to have to move to a place they have never lived and do not understand or speak the language, does seem like punishment for a crime they did not commit.

        From the number of illegal immigrants arriving now, which is down to near zero because of the drop in available jobs, it would appear that there are much bigger factors in drawing illegal immigrants than American citizenship for their children.

      • Pancake Rankin in NC

        Doesn’t make them incorrect, or a not move in the right direction either.

    • Pancake Rankin in NC

      A horror story from Hidan. We are not joined at the hip to the mouthy ignorant minority. It they hang on like a tick we’ll brush them off in our imminent “baptism”. Stampedes obliterate fences getting to the water.

  • Noam Trotsky

    Does a sovereign nation have the right to determine what is legitimate immigration?  Does this nation have the right to take legal sanction against those who ignore their laws?  From some of the posts I’ve read, the answer is not obvious.

    • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

      Nor should it be obvious, since a strong case can be made, in a world which is facing multiple simultaneous global crises, that national sovereignty is as obsolete as states’ rights were 150 years ago.

      • Pancake Rankin in NC

        Many large corporations are more powerful than most middling nation states. (That’s how sovereign debt schemes are fabricated between co-opted leadership and vultures.) Corporate alliances seem to have overpowered rule of law in the USA too. So if Exxon or Microsoft need to import coolies nothing can stand in their way? We’ll see.

  • Terry Tree Tree

    Ronald Reagan GAVE AMNESTY.  ‘W’ GAVE AMNESTY.   This proposal is NOT amnesty!
       ‘Conservatives’ want the cheap labor, that they can ABUSE, CHEAT, MOLEST,and CONTROL!
       THAT’S why the ‘ACTIVIST JUDGES’ of the Supreme Court allowed FOREIGN CORPORATIONS to control our elections, with ‘Citizens United’, which would HONESTLY be named Foreign Corporations United!

    • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

      Do you have any idea how fucking annoying your CAPITALIZATIONS are?

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Evidently, by your language, VERY annoying to you?
           I am an EXPRESSIVE person when speaking, and rarely use a monotone.
           I still haven’t found how to italicize on this thing, and italics does not have the emphasis I’m expressing.
           Does Moda’s, er ‘Warren’s poor sentence structure, spelling,  and puctuation, annoy as much?
          Not to mention his claimed Mercury, Lead, Asbestos, and self-administered ‘chemicals’?

        • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

          You definitely win on the annoying spectrum.

          I’ll let you in on a little secret if you promise not to tell anyone else here.

          less than symbol, i, greater than symbol, italic text, less than symbol,/i, greater than symbol

          less than symbol, b, greater than symbol, bold text, less than symbol, /b, greater than symbol

          • Pancake Rankin in NC

            I don’t wanna work,
            Just wanna bang  on me drum all day.
            I’d almost  be afraid to join a club that would have RR for a leader.
            He’ll make you eat brussels sprouts for an encore TTT.

  • Drew (GA)

    First, let me say that my heart breaks for the children that are put into a terrible situation, BY THEIR PARENTS. If the parents aren’t willing to take responsibility for their actions something has to give.

    Secondly, they broke the law when entering the country illegaly. No amount of spin will change that fact.

    That being said, I know firsthand what an illegal resident’s irresponsibility can do to a legitimate citizen’s life. I was hit head on by an illegal resident who made an improper left hand turn. She could not speak english, had no driver’s license, and no insurance. She had two children in the vehicle who were not injured, thank goodness. I wasn’t so fortunate. I was already hanging by a thread thanks to someone stealing my identity (search “Criminal Identity Theft”) and this illegal resident was literally the straw that broke the camel’s back. My car was totaled, I was injured, lost my job, and eventually lost my house.

    As for the whining about having to carry documentation is concerned, almost nothing could infuriate me more. I have never been arrested for or convicted of any offence (DOJ clearance to prove it) yet I have to carry papers at all times because someone else broke the law. I used to love this country…

    • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

      “they broke the law when entering the country illegaly. No amount of spin will change that fact.”

      It’s not a “fact”. We use the word “illegal” without precision or discrimination. There are criminal laws, and then there are administrative regulations such as immigration rules.

      Violating a paperwork rule does not make one “illegal” – “undocumented” is the correct term.

      As for your tragedy, that could have been avoided if your state gave driver’s licenses to migrant workers, as Vermont’s legislature is considering doing, so that they can exercise the inalienable right of mobility and can get insurance to protect others.

      • Drew (GA)

        I would hope that my use of the term “illegal” would not be viewed as derogatory, it certainly was not intended to be. I completely understand your point about the violation of an Administrative Action as opposed to violation of an actual law, it is not applicable in my situation. The woman who hit me WAS an illegal resident, she stayed past the expiration of her Visa which is a clear violation of Federal Law. If a law is not broken when entering the country undocumented  (as you prefer) initially, laws are certainly broken by necessity when remaining in the US undocumented for long periods of time. I generally don’t post links but these two came to mind:

        http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=122314131

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States

        As for the state providing driver’s licenses to immigrant workers, that would have not changed a thing. Nor would the availability of insurance have had any impact. The driver that hit me had been living here illegally with her husband for YEARS and did not work nor did she have any intention of trying to become a legitimate contributor to our society. She was in violation of Federal Law, she was in violation of several State Laws, she was (as are the majority of “undocumented” immigrants) in violation of the law. Again, I do not intend offense when I use the term illegal. And the cherry on top? Do you think any action was taken subsequent to the results of her violation of several laws? Of course not, she was not detained, questioned, or arrested. None of the responding officers could speak Spanish (I suppose it’s their fault they weren’t bi-lingual?) and they simply let her go.

        • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

          It has nothing to do with being “derogatory”. It’s about being factually accurate.

          There are all kinds of laws. What we usually mean by “illegal” is the violation of criminal law. Violations of administrative law, whether federal or state or local, are fundamentally bureaucratic transgressions and simply don’t rise to what we mean by the word “illegal” except when someone is trying to give an argument more emotional appeal, as all the anti-immigrant activists are prone to do.

          If she was truly in blatant violation of multiple federal and state laws, then it’s not credible that the police (who are typically highly biased against non-English-speaking undocumented migrants) would do nothing.

          In Vermont, the state police are ordered not to ask about federal immigrant status except in investigating a real crime, because we don’t want migrant workers to be afraid of calling the police when they’re needed (migrants are far more likely to be the victims of crime than to be criminals).

          • Drew (GA)

            “If she was truly in blatant violation of multiple federal and state laws, then it’s not credible that the police (who are typically highly biased against non-English-speaking undocumented migrants) would do nothing.”

            So I must be a liar right? I understood enough Spanish to get her name, address, and telephone number which were then recorded in the Police Report. The police took no further action. That is the truth and I could care less whether or not you find it credible. Her husband who spoke limited English forced her to appear when the court date came around and that is how I learned what little information I did about their situation. She had left the US at some point after her Visa expired but returned as an illegal immigrant. Yes I used it again. The court also did nothing, they were only concerned with collecting their fines for the traffic violations.

            “Violations of administrative law, whether federal or state or local, are fundamentally bureaucratic transgressions and simply don’t rise to what we mean by the word “illegal” except when someone is trying to give an argument more emotional appeal, as all the anti-immigrant activists are prone to do.”

            Well I’m certainly not an anti-immigrant activist and I’m not trying to give anything more emotional appeal. I take your point about my use of the term but I doubt that any of this discussion regarding semantics (my opinion) was called for. Some people take offense to the term, I get it. It should be pretty obvious by now that I could care less about political correctness. I am also not concerned with someone taking offense, everything offends someone and that’s a lot of our problem in this country. As for the Criminal versus Bureaucratic argument consider this scenario: If you invite someone onto your property and into your home they are there by invitation. If someone enters your home uninvited it is Criminal Trespass. I guess they would have to enact violence against you or your family before their actions would be considered illegal. If we fail to agree about the criminality involved I’m fine with that, are you?

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            First you claimed that the police took no action even though “she was in violation of several State Laws”, and now you admit that she had a court date, but that the local court was not interested (nor can they be) in enforcing federal regulations and ignored the alleged fact that “she was in violation of several State Laws”.

            That’s not credible. If you want to call yourself a liar, feel free.

            “It should be pretty obvious by now that I could care less about political correctness.”

            It’s not about “political correctness” but about accuracy and honesty in language. 

            “I am also not concerned with someone taking offense”

            It’s not about being “derogatory” nor about you imagining that any one took offense. It’s about using language accurately and honestly. 

            Calling undocumented immigrants “illegal” is pure propaganda.

            “If someone enters your home uninvited it is Criminal Trespass.”

            That is true only with private property. The nation is public property – the commons. One cannot trespass on the commons.

          • Drew (GA)

            “Calling undocumented immigrants “illegal” is pure propaganda.”

            She was not undocumented, she had an expired Visa and therefore was documented. Since illegal is unacceptable and undocumented cannot be applied provide me with an alternative. I really enjoy reading your posts but this discussion is becoming ridiculous. I guess I have my answer about agreeing to disagree. From now on I suppose I must use immigrant with no descriptor attached.

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            If she had an expired Visa, she should have gotten a MasterCard.

          • Drew (GA)

            :’P

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

    If anyone would like to imagine what the US would look like without the new blood of immigration,  just check out parts of Apalachia and the Ozarks. 

    Almost all of the progress and inventions celebrated by the USA was achieved by recent immigrants or their children.  Otherwise the good ol REAL Merikans would be doing what they do best…waging war on their own and others.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       The people that you named–I’m presuming that you were trying to be disparaging, but you failed–were immigrants.  We’re Scots-Irish mainly.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

         My point Greg is that beyond the fifth or sixth generation of US born (real Merikans) are not that impressive and in fact show a regressive tendency.

        Even fifth-generation Italians in the US are clearly less productive and successful than their forefathers.  

        Consumerism, media manipulation and easy credit clearly has its dumbing-down effects on any race or ethnicity.

        • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

          Not to mention Wonder Bread, Spam, Coke and chewing tobacco.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      A Cherokee Chief, Sequoia, is the ONLY person I have heard of, or read of, to create a Written Language, single-handed. 
         Since his people are reported to have immigrated several thousands of years ago, and NO native people were here then, I think that qualifies him as a Native Citizen of the United States, that moved in around, and over him?
         Appalachian, by the way!

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

        I wasn’t referring to the Cherokee, who were, of course,  themselves victims of manifest destiny and the anglo propensity towards pillage and piracy.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Being an ‘Appalachian’, like Greg, I had to tweak your nose a little.  Many of us do NOT like the majority decisions here, to maintain ignorance. 
             As a counter-balance, there have been several Nobel Prize winners, Astronauts, attorneys, judges, captains of industry, and other educated and intelligent Appalachians, throughout history.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

             Judges and astronauts are pretty much political and appointed positions. I even heard that Obama got the Nobel Peace Prize. And attorneys??????  Captains of industry…what the heck??? 

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Until 5 years into the Shuttle program, Astronauts had to be top-notch pilots!  AND have scientific backgrounds!

      • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

        J. R. R. Tolkien created more than twenty languages for his Middle Earth occupants. He was not from Appalachia.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          FULL Languages?  Or just parts to fit the novels?  I don’t remember FULL Languages, but it’s been over ten years since I read J.R.R.T. last.

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            What makes a language “full”?

            Hobbits and Elves don’t jabber as much as we Anglos.

  • Terry Tree Tree

    Anyone dumb enough, or crooked enough to compare President Obama’s Executive Order, allowing illegal youths in a narrow group a path to work permits, to Ronald Reagan’s AMNESTY, or ‘W’s AMNESTY, to get cheap labor, that the GREEDY rich could ABUSE, CHEAT, and use to lower other labor wages, is obvioulsy NOT to be believed about anything else?

  • hmnm..

    I can’t understand how anybody could believe a single word that comes out of Romney’s mouth. He has changed positions on every issue more times than I have changed socks. 

    • Noam Trotsky

      We elected Dubya twice, remember?

      • Terry Tree Tree

        ‘Activist Judges’ in the Supreme Court, SELECTED ‘W’ the first time!  Election-time Scare-Tactics of  Security Alerts of Red and Orange, scared people into ‘Not Changing horses in Mid-Flight’, or some such nonsense from ‘W’.

    • Brothersower88

      I have no intention of defending Romney, but I am going to change your statement a touch:

      I can’t believe how anybody could trust a president who used a drone strike to kill a US citizen without a trial?

      Both are bad statements… 

      Pick your poison.

      • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

        Every US president has been a mass murderer. It comes with the oval office.

  • Margah15

    I’m so proud of President Obama. I came to this country legally when I was 14 years old. This was not my choice but my parent’s. It would be so unfair to deport people that like me, was brought to this country by their parents.
    I became an American citizen last year and will definitely vote for Mr. Obama.

    • Brothersower88

      “I came to this country legally when I was 14 years old.”

      If you came legally why would anyone deport you?

      • Margah15

        I was fortunate to obtain a legal status when I came but many of my friends were denied this. They have worked and studied as hard as me and love this country. So I believe they deserve the same opportunities that I have had.

        • Brothersower88

          I understand now.

          I don’t disagree that people who “have worked and studied hard… and love this country” should be recognized by the government.

          My concern is how he did it.  An executive order w/o dire necessity sets a dangerous precedent (regardless of who the president is). 

          • Terry Tree Tree

            OVER 290 Executive Orders by ‘W’?

          • VinceD2

            “W”‘s BS does not justify Obama’s BS.

  • Greyman

    Question for guests: does Obama’s executive order confer voting rights on the affected population? does/will the President’s unilateral action permit illegal aliens to legally vote in national or even local elections?

    • Mary

      Given my review of  it,… no.  It just keeps them from getting deported.. and sets it up so that It can be seen as something that can easily be changed with a different administration in power (read Romney)

      • Greyman

        Mary: thanks for your response, I have renewed my query up above, though, and would still like to hear Tom Ashbrook and/or the guests address this.

        • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

          Obama specifically said this would not be a path to citizenship.

          You have to be a citizen to vote. What part of that don’t you understand?

          • Greyman

            What I do not understand is whether Obama himself thinks he has the power to confer voting rights by unilateral Presidential decree. Ever since announcing on 1 August 2007 his vision of Presidential unilateral action (on that date, enunciating his utter disregard if not actual contempt for the territorial integrity and national sovereignty even of nominal US allies), I have not trusted the man’s judgment, which explains in part why I did not vote for him in 2008 and plan not to vote for him again in 2012.

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            What we do know is that Gov. Rick Scott thinks he has the unilateral power to deny voting rights to American citizens.

            But, then, Florida has made a habit of that at least since 2000.

          • Greyman

            Obama plays that game himself, as I’ve pointed out on this site more than twice: barely one month into office, President Obama directed $35 million in “stimulus” funds to a school district in South Carolina (run by the local Democratic Party) that continues to this day to resist efforts to permit direct elections of public school board members, even though in two “non-binding” referenda over the past two decades, voters have called for elected (rather than politically appointed) board members. Obama’s Federal reward and endorsement of this blatant anti-democratic (lower case “d”) practice surely puts him in the same league, and his practice is arguably more galling since about half the disenfranchised in this instance are citizens of African-American descent.  

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            A local school board election hardly has the same national import as a major electoral state like Florida, which has the power to determine a presidential election outcome, engaging in blatant election manipulation (as it has done for 12 years).

          • Greyman

            In the case I cite, however, the POTUS himself personally and by virtue of his office has acted to suppress voting. His tacit approval of practices that exempt appointed officials from accountability renders him unfit for office.

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            In the case you cited, the administration (not the POTUS personally) transferred school support funds and declined to intervene in a local affair. 

            You are a liar.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Did you trust A’W’OL?
              After he admitted to being drunk and NOT showing up for Duty?
              In the REAL Millitary, people were Court Martialled for that!
              Hard time in the Stockade, or Brig!
               ‘W’ made out like it was just a childish prank?  Nothing Serious?
               Ask those that have done hard time for it, if it is a joke?

  • Deusvolt

    Obama’s new immigration order will not necessarily increase Latino votes across the board.  Cuban immigrants and Cuban-Americans like Rubio do not (will not) take kindly to it. The US gives special treatment to Cuban immigrants because of its long-standing anti-Castro policy. Many Cubans are indifferent to other Latino immigrants especially Mexicans or even hostile to them. Many Puerto Ricans have the same attitude because they are American citizens and lean towards a “nativist” ideology.

  • X-Ray

    If, as the President says, “expelling talented young” illegal aliens is not in
    the U.S. interest, will we be giving “talent” tests before granting amnesty or
    are all the aliens assumed to be sufficiently talented? And if this is such a
    good idea, why didn’t the President do it in the first part of his tenure? Does
    not prove that this is just pandering for the re-election campaign? And is not
    the function of the Administration to enforce the laws not make them? Hasn’t the
    Congressional function been circumvented? This President’s action is wrong on so
    many levels.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      President Obama has been kind of busy, trying to lead the Country, with a Congress of “NO” government opposing THEIR OWN past proposals?

      • X-Ray

        So, he is saying, “We don’t need the Congress, we’ll make the laws by Presidential edict”. We call that a dictatorship. And remember, half the Congress has a Democrat majority.

        • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

          Give it a break!

          One of Obama’s chief faults has been his effort to create bi-partisanship and not force anything through Congress without agreement from both sides of the aisle.

          But there is only so much obstructionism any president can tolerate.

          All presidents write a raft of executive orders at the end of their terms. It’s as American as apple pie.

        • NoelTheOne

          It sounds like you’re saying that the President doesn’t have the authority to issue Executive Orders.  Kindly inform all the past Presidents that have issued them.  President Obama did nothing here to violate federal law.  Congress can pass a law overriding it any time, and any future President can alter or revoke the order.  This is how our system works.

          The Dept of Homeland Security has stated that (despite making an earnest effort of it for the last 3 years) there is no way they can keep tracking down and deporting every undocumented individual in the country.  They have to prioritize.  The President has just given them a directive (in the form an Executive Order) about how he would like them to do this.  This is well within his authority as the head of the executive branch.

          By no means do I like all Executive Orders that this or past Presidents have made, but it is silly to say that the President doesn’t have authority to make Executive Orders.

    • Still Here

      “Talent” will be determined by the number of votes the individual has been able to secure for Obama. 

  • john_5_boston

    yea this is a good decision for Obama

    –as an Irish Emigrant –now a citizen —
    –im tired of the USA s lack of a serious Immigration policy -
    –if the Gov. wish to punish -
    –punish the employers of illegal workers
    –so many Americans out of work –espc men-

    jb

  • ed

    After all that Mitt Romney has said since Obama issued the new ruling, I still can’t figure out where he stands on this issue. As far as I can tell, Romney still hasn’t said what he will do if elected president.

    • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

      Maybe because he is clueless?

  • X-Ray

    If, as the President says, “expelling talented young” illegal aliens is not in the U.S. interest, will we be giving “talent” tests before granting amnesty or are all the aliens assumed to be sufficiently talented? And if this is such a good idea, why didn’t the President do it in the first part of his tenure? Does this not prove that it is just pandering for the re-election campaign? And is not the function of the Administration to enforce the laws not make them? Hasn’t the Congressional function been circumvented? This President’s action is wrong on so many levels.

  • Drew (GA)

    Obama is being criticized for making a politically motivated decision. He’s a politician, what do we expect? Every decision or indecision on Romney’s part since shortly after high school has been politically motivated. Every flip Romney has made was made based on political motivations. Yet he verbally assaults Obama for doing what Romney himself has done the majority of his life. And what do we know about Romney’s behavior BEFORE he decided to join the Rat Race for the White House? The facts speak for themselves, how can anyone place faith in anything Romney says? Oh yes, faith. Nuff said.

  • Greyman

    Why would an illegal immigrant who’s obtained an advanced engineering degree not return to her native country to pursue a professional career free and clear of government threats to her employment status?

    • Drew (GA)

      Lack of demand and compensation for their skills and training?

    • Brothersower88

      A lot of Indian students come to the US for engineering degrees and do return to their native country—legally presumably.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Drug Cartels are KILLING most of the educated people in Mexico, and other countries that supply the U.S. Drug Market? 
         How much market for Advanced Engineering degrees, IS there in Mexico, other than engineering Drug-Smuggling Equipment?

    • jefe68

      Maybe they are more American than you think.
      Try to get over the xenophobia if you can. 

      • Greyman

        But I’m no xenophobe (even though I’m not multi-lingual): I am as concerned with the rule of law governing the actions of banking executives and financiers as with immigrants, no more, no less.

    • Roy Mac

      She’s lived here since she was 3 years old?

  • Chrisald

    This is a great first step on making citizenship easier for people by removing unnecessary obstacles.

  • http://bustertheblacklab.com/ Bustertheblacklab

    Obama knows he’s running againts the .1%.  When given the choice of a four year Romney free-for-all and a more reasoned government environment under Obama, they’ve chosen Romney.  Who can blame them.  The prospect of another Bush-like 4 year New Year’s Eve party must be making them drool.

    The election will be, as it already is, awash in Citizens United money.  The propoganda produced by that money is very, very effective.

    Obama is understandibly desparate to try and open pathways for his coalition to want to go to the polls on election day and pull the lever for him.

    That’s what this Obama move is all about.  

  • Michael from Putney

    Interesting that the Republicans assert that no previous president has ever declared an intention not to enforce a law on the books. They must have forgotten the record number of “signing statements” in which W. Bush declared exactly that.

    • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

      Ah, but Baby Bush penned the signing statements before he affixed his signature, so technically they were not yet laws.

    • VinceD2

      Bush’s BS does not justify Obama’s BS. These two are the worst presidents in recent history. And yes, we also have the worst congresses! It’s time to throw both parties out and get some common sense in DC.

  • Greyman

    Does the President’s executive order confer voing rights or not, nationally or locally?

    • jefe68

      No. 

    • NoelTheOne

       It can not and does not.

    • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

      You have to be a citizen to vote. Perhaps you remember that from your citizenship application or from grade-school civics?

  • J__o__h__n

    The Senate is broken.  The fillibuster is at least as unconstitutional as Obama’s executive overreach.  The House isn’t interested in governing; Boehner can’t lead the teabaggers. 

  • Peter

    Your commentator complains about President Obama circumventing the Constitution & Congress. Has he forgotten about Bush’s signing statements that circumvented laws passed by Congress. Were they constitutional ?

    • Drew (GA)

      I seem to remember a statement being made about the Constitution being “just a piece of paper”. W then proceeded to wipe his behind with it and many cheered him on.

      • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

        It doesn’t have nearly as many pages as the Sears & Roebuck catalog, but I guess the vellum is better for wiping.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        I hope he STILL has a rash of Red A$$!

        • Drew (GA)

          Wishful thinking my friend, he’s switched to hundred dollar bills now that he has an abundance of them. Can’t you hear him saying “There’s nothing better than wiping your bottom with Benjamin Franklin’s face after a good Morning Constitutional.”

  • Orlando Vidali

    After all the election promises, it’s so two faced of him to suddenly loosen up on immigration now, after ruining the lives of so many through the first 3 years. I feel the same about this as his stance on gay marriage – he’s looking for campaign hand outs and a little lip service seems to do the trick. If I didn’t think the alternative was worse there’s no way I’d vote for him – in fact, I’ll probably throw up a little in the voting booth when I punch in his name.

    • VinceD2

      Yes, Obama is ruining lives. The lives of 7-8 million LEGAL Americans who are ditrctly displaced by illegals. The lives of millions more whose wages are depressed by the presence of this issegal labor pool. The lives of those harmed by the crimes committed by illegals. Yep, he’s ruining a lot of lives! 2 million more with this policy.

      • purpleoctopus

        Ah, so you must be from the camp that thinks you can stick them all in a deportation van and be done with it. You realize this country was built on immigration right? It’s a serious economic advantage to have large swaths of people who want to come to your country. Rather than kicking them out we should be figuring out ways to best integrate them. Obama, though, doesn’t care – they’re just a campaign issue. He’s as bad as Romney – saying whatever will get him across the finish line.

  • X-Ray

    So, he is saying, “We don’t need the Congress, we’ll make the laws by Presidential edict”. We call that a dictatorship. And remember, half the Congress has a Democrat majority.

    • jefe68

      Read up on presidential powers. Any president can and has done what President Obama has just done.
      GW Bush used these powers a fair amount and I never remember one right winger saying any thing about it.

    • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

      And the other half has an obstructionist agenda.

    • Roy Mac

      What half?  Majority in the Senate means 60 of 100 votes.

  • Charles Vigneron

    Brilliant political move. Many eligible are now kindred to old white guys. The right thing to do for families. 
    The Americans marry the newcomer, it’s what made us unique as a world-wide melting pot.

  • Guilfoyle20

     GW Bush enacted 291 EO in his two terms.  This EO is #128 for President Obama.  Disingenuous criticism on the part of your Conservative guest.

  • Jenny Clark

    Tom,
    Please do not forget that not all illegal immigrants are hispanics, there are thousands, if not millions, undocumented immigrants from all over the world. Not JUST MEXICO. 

  • Brothersower88

    If only voters understood the US constitution and were enraged when it was violated, both parties would be much more careful and would get more done together.

    • Drew (GA)

      The Voters didn’t care when Habeas corpus was suspended (Military Commisions Act) or when the right to privacy lost it’s last leg (Patriot Acts), why would that change now? There are those who understand the Constitution but they are vastly outnumbered by those that just don’t care. We’re more concerned about purchasing the new Ipad or Iphone than we are about a loss of Civil Liberties.

      • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

        And, anyway, you can get a civil liberties app for that Iphone.

        • Drew (GA)

          lol

          Not me, I have a “dumb” phone.

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            I just have a stupid phone (land line with no caller ID or any frills). 

  • Dukegreg

    The 800,000 are already here and ‘not working’. There are no jobs for them or ‘us’, the 14 million unemployed on the unemployment line. We are all unemployed together……

  • Pacho19

    President Obama has the power to grant such “temporary protected status” to the cohort of immigrants covered by his Executive Order. His detractors want to convince us that the President has acted beyond the scope of his authority. No he did not. He can instruct his Attorney General and thus the Department of Homeland Security to act according to his executive decision. The president does not need the approval of a Congress reluctant to compromise (at its best) and intent on work to see him fail (at its worst).

    Gonzo126

    • Still Here

      He just went beyond what he said he would do last March.  Our bad for taking this criminal at his word!

      • feettothefire

         Please, stop being so funny. You’re killing me.

  • Greyman

    Additionally: does the President’s unilateral executive order confer eligibility for Federal educational subsidization to the illegal immigrants in the course of their new two-year exemption from (legal) deportation? If, like my question concerning whether the President’s executive order confers voting rights on the affected population, “the details are still being worked out”, will answers be forthcoming prior to the November election?

    • jefe68

      If they are not citizens then they can’t vote.
      Of course the right is now engaged in using this as a whipping post, the idea of voter fraud. Which is almost a non issue in most all of the 50 states. Except in the minds of the GOP.

      • Greyman

        jefe: in a country where the dead vote and receive Social Security benefits with distressing regularity, I’m not much relieved by your assurances that illegal immigrants cannot vote, with or without Presidential intervention.

        • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

          Then try Rolaids.

        • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

          From Florida Congressman Ted Deutch:

          Two weeks ago I introduced the nation to Bill Internicola, a decorated World War II veteran who was told by Florida Governor Rick Scott that he was not a United States citizen. As Bill said himself, receiving this letter was “an insult.”

          Unfortunately, this American hero is just one of tens of thousands of Floridians wrongly targeted by Rick Scott’s outrageous and illegal voter purge. This blatantly partisan effort dramatically risks a repeat of 2000 and 2004 elections when thousands of eligible voters were purged from Florida’s voting rolls.

          Because Governor Scott is violating federal law, the Department of Justice has filed an emergency lawsuit to stop this purge immediately. Thankfully, the Obama Administration has stepped in to protect the rights of Florida’s voters that Rick Scott is attempting to strip away.

          Florida has a sorry history when it comes to ensuring the integrity of our elections. Our Governor has a special obligation to ensure that every vote counts and that not one eligible voter is removed from the rolls. Instead, Governor Scott has created the illusion of mass voter fraud in order to justify his goal of purging the rolls of eligible US citizens who just happen to be overwhelmingly Hispanic and Democratic.

          Governor Scott has failed us with his rank incompetence and bitter partisanship. Rather than following other states who use transparent systems to accurately ensure that non-citizens cannot vote, Rick Scott has recklessly plowed forward with a rushed, inaccurate, and illegal effort that jeopardizes the voting rights of American citizens.

          • William

             Actually, Gov. Scott is doing his job by checking the voting lists to ensure they are accurate. That is what should have been done for years, but was being ignored. Good for him!

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            If you really believe that, you are truly an idiot. Florida has been engaged in the most blatant election fraud for years, and Scott is merely perpetuating a Florida tradition.

            Bloomberg News, Jun 10, 2012:
            http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-10/-election-fraud-is-just-another-way-of-playing-hardball.html

            Despite vigorous efforts of fraud hunters, and aggressive work in more than a dozen states to encumber voting or registration, evidence of fraud remains vanishingly scarce. And the penalties for committing such fraud are already severe. The answer is these efforts aren’t really intended to root out fraud — they’re intended to discourage voting.

            A group of historians and scholars calculated that from 2005 to 2007 at least 10 bills requiring voter ID were introduced by Republicans in various state legislatures. In the combined votes for the bills, 95.3 percent of 1,222 Republicans supported voter ID; just 2.1 percent of 796 Democrats did. The disparity is not a mystery. The laws will make it more difficult for some small but very real number of citizens — almost all of them poor — to vote.

            The rush to eliminate voter fraud rests largely on a fallacy — that illegal immigrants and others on the social and political margins are engaged in deliberate fraud; that those with the least social capital, least organizational capacity and the most to lose — voter fraud is a felony subject to imprisonment and any illegal immigrant who commits it is subject to deportation — are actively subverting the system. And that they’re doing it in such numbers as to sway an election.

            Undermining a citizen’s right to vote is an egregious political act. If Governor Scott wants to chase fraud, he should do so in a way that doesn’t make collateral damage of Florida voters. Unfortunately, collateral damage seems to be the point of the exercise.

            In Florida, Voter Fraud Is Rarer Than Shark Attacks
            By Katie Sanders, Times/Herald Tallahassee Bureau
            March 10, 2012
            http://www.tampabay.com/news/in-florida-voter-fraud-is-rarer-than-shark-attacks/1219292

          • William

            If you think there are not illegals voting you are dumb. Why do you think the Democrats are putting up such a fuss? It’s not because they “care”.

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            The ‘Myth’ of Voter Fraud

            The fight against ‘voter fraud’ is really about vote suppression.

            http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2012/04/24/the-myth-of-voter-fraud

            Election law expert Tova Wang says instances of polling place fraud are extremely rare. We do not have a serious problem with fraud in this country. There’s absolutely zero evidence that anyone who has put any false information on a voter registration form has actually voted using that information. You have a better chance of being hit by lightning than discovering an incident of polling place fraud.

            The Myth of Voter Fraud
            October 9, 2011
            http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/10/opinion/the-myth-of-voter-fraud.html

            It has been a record year for new legislation designed to make it harder for Democrats to vote — 19 laws and two executive actions in 14 states dominated by Republicans, according to a new study by the Brennan Center for Justice. As a result, more than five million eligible voters will have a harder time participating in the 2012 election.

            Of course the Republicans passing these laws never acknowledge their real purpose, which is to turn away from the polls people who are more likely to vote Democratic, particularly the young, the poor, the elderly and minorities. They insist that laws requiring government identification cards to vote are only to protect the sanctity of the ballot from unscrupulous voters. Cutting back on early voting, which has been popular among working people who often cannot afford to take off from their jobs on Election Day, will save money, they claim.

            None of these explanations are true. There is almost no voting fraud in America. And none of the lawmakers who claim there is have ever been able to document any but the most isolated cases. The only reason Republicans are passing these laws is to give themselves a political edge by suppressing Democratic votes.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Like the Catholic clergy have done THEIR jobs, by purging Molesting and Abusing clergy, as soon as reported?

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Florida can PROVE 200 ACTUAL fraudulent voters, for EVERY legitimate voter they removed, or some way messed with the vote of, in 2000, and since?
               Is that too great of accuracy to ask for?
               HOW MANY voting Republican voters, compared to Democrats and Independents, has Florida ‘purged’?

          • William

            The people in government have a responsiblity to ensure that only legal citizens can vote. Like it or not, enforcing laws is important.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            HOW MANY ACTUAL ‘fraud voters’ were truely found? 
               HOW MANY legal voters were illegally PURGED?

          • TFRX

            Yeah, I’m just gonna figure you’re a white suburban male who’s never had to worry about your name being overzealously scrubbed from a voting roll.

            Your placid demeanor can’t cover up the hell-bent-for-leather slipshod manner in which Florida is doing this. If they were adding people to the voting rolls as haphazardly and inaccurately as they were scrubbing them, you’d throw a fit.

        • bellavida

          Well Greyman, I thoroughly understand your concerns.  When I voted in my first national election in 1996, they only asked for my driver’s license, not my certificate of naturalization and the same for every election thereafter.  There could be millions of non-US citizens voting!

      • Terry Tree Tree

        In 2000, the Republicans were trying to vote my Grandpa, who died in the ’60s. 

      • feettothefire

         Since most eligible citizens don’t vote, maybe we should allow illegal aliens to. That way we wouldn’t look like such a bunch of pathetic dummies.

  • badger

    As I 

  • Remember

    “Give me your tired, your poor,

    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

    • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

      And show them the way to the exit.

  • Chris Grooms

    Yes, let’s unconstitutionally allow immigrants to stay. He doesn’t have executive power to do this. Again he does NOT have the executive power to legalize illegals without congress.

    • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

      The words “immigrant” or “immigration” don’t appear in the Constitution. Undocumented immigrants are not “illegals”. As Commander-in-Chief, the president has sole responsibility for control over the borders and of enforcing laws – those are executive functions.

      • Chris Grooms

        Wrong. You might want to know what you’re talking about before you speak. Obama cannot simply override Congress because he wants to. He is not a dictator, even though he wants to be.

        • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

          “You might want to know what you’re talking about before you speak.”

          Wrong? Try reading the Constitution. You are clueless. 

          Enforcement of the law is an executive function and the President has sole authority to determine how laws will be carried out.

          • Chris Grooms

            I apparently know it better than you. The President can’t just do what he wants. Get an education for Christ sake. Read a book. Read the Constitution yourself, having never read it as I can see.

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            Do you really believe that repeating ignorant idiocy makes it any less wrong?

            Quote the Constitution. I dare you.

            The only place the Constitution mentioned the naturalization process was:

            Section. 8. The Congress shall have Power To…establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization

            Yet most immigration laws passed by Congress were highly non-uniform, in that they excluded, blacks, Asians, Chinese and even Irish and French.

            Later, the 14th Amendment was passed to create uniform national standards.

            Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

            Prior to that amendment, each state determined naturalization requirements.

        • Roy Mac

          You might want to talk to George Bush.

  • JGC

    A Letter from Mitt Romney to his Former Gardener about the new immigration rules, as excerpted from http://www.borowitzreport.com

    Dear José,

    I’m writing to you today with some exceptionally good news.

    As you probably remember, a few months back I fired you from your job mowing the lawn at my house.  If I remember correctly, my exact words were, “I’m running for office, for Pete’s sake, I can’t have illegals.”

    Well, here’s the good news: now I can…

    So I hope you’ll consider my offer to come back. The only teeny hitch – and I hope you’ll agree that it’s just a teeny one – is that I’ll have to fire you again come January .  I’ll be President then, and I’ll have to reverse everything Obama did…

    But there’s a lot of mowing to be done between now and January, José…

    Sincerely,

    Mr. Romney 

    • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

      That would be funny if it weren’t so often true.

      As a member of the local rescue squad, I responded to one of the large, very expensive “gentleman” horse farms in my Vermont town (the owners and their horses go to Florida for the winter and return only in the summer).

      The call was for a fight with injuries between two stable hands, at least one of whom was undocumented (and admitted it).

      After we were done treating the injuries and the state police left the scene, the owner (who showed up after we arrived) yelled at the stable manager for calling 911 and risking the police finding out that he was hiring undocumented aliens. He said “next time be man enough to deal with it yourself”.

      This filthy rich thoroughbred owner with a multi-million dollar summer ranch was not upset that his workers got into a fight or got hurt, but only that he might be found out as a cheapskate who won’t pay enough to hire local people and might get in trouble.

      The rich have no ethics outside of self-interest. That’s how they get rich and stay rich. The Mitt is no exception.

      • VinceD2

        And did you turn him in?

        • Terry Tree Tree

          A 9/11 call about ANY fight, is supposed to be handled by Law Enforcement!
             If LE was NOT dispatched, to at least take a report, Dispatch, or the LE are NOT doing their job.

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            I said that the VT state police were on scene and they specifically said they weren’t interested in immigrant status.

            But, in this rural state, it often takes the troopers 45 minutes to respond, so our local constable (who is also on the rescue squad) was the first one in and I followed him as back up.

        • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

          Who? The Guatemalan who was there to feed his family, or the ranch owner who hired him?

          Neither one was breaking the law, and Vermont State Police are forbidden from asking about immigration status unless someone commits a real crime. 

          Vermont welcomes undocumented farm workers because, without them, we would have no dairy industry (no one local wants to get up at 4 AM to milk the cows), and you wouldn’t get to enjoy Ben & Jerry’s gourmet ice cream.

          In fact, the Vermont legislature is considering a bill that would grant drivers’ licenses to migrant farm workers.

          • VinceD2

            Translation: Who? The Guatamalan who broke our laws, and continues to do so, or the cheap ranch owner who is unwillinmg to pay a decent wage and obey the law. He could have used the H2A visa to hire someone legally, but that requires a fair wage.

            Hate to tell you, but my family is a long line of dairy farmers, farm work is good work, and it deserves a fair paycheck. An industry that requires cheap exploitable workers does not deserve to exist. Didn’t we settle that in the 1860′s?  

            But only ~5% of illegals are farm workers, 7-8 million hold non-farm jobs. The are jobs that used to pay well, and if we booted the illegal workers and threw a few illegal employers in the slammer.

            As for the Panderer In Chief, he just condemned 2 million of his supporters to unemployment. The young and especially minorities have been hit hard by the depression, he just made it much worse for them.

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            The only thing we “settled” in the 1860s was a forced shift from plantation slavery to share cropping and wage slavery, with conditions for blacks in the northern industrial cities often much worse than on the plantations.

            If you’re really in dairy, then you know that it’s impossible to pay a competitive wage and still make any money (unless it’s agribusiness and not real farming), and it’s next to impossible to get reliable help willing to do the sunup to sundown work.

            It’s largely a myth that undocumented migrants are displacing jobs of citizens. They routinely do the most dangerous and worst paying jobs because they can’t complain.

            Unless you’re Native American, you’re an immigrant or the descendant of one who came to Turtle Island without invitation or right, and committed genocide against the indigenous people.

            Today’s migrant workers come here to escape the “free trade” zones which have destroyed their economies for the sake of American corporations. They deserve to be treated with respect, and your attitude deserves to be condemned.

            If there were justice in this world, you would be deported and your job given to a migrant who is trying to feed his family.

          • JGC

            Oops, you had me until your last paragraph.  In the immortal words of Rodney King, “Can’t we just all get along? Can’t we just all try to get along?”

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            Not when previous immigrants claim they have more rights than new immigrants.

          • VinceD2

            Wrong again, Mr Know-it-all. Slavery was outlawed, now we wink at virtual slavery in th eform of an underground labor force that business owners exploit and use to drive down wages.

            I’m not in dairy, but relatives are. It’s shameful what the farmer gets paid for his work, that entire “system” needs reformed, another subject. But if you like your cheap food and high profits for middlemen, the current “system” is just fine.

            Actually, I do have some Native blood. If you wish to right past wrongs, return this land to it’s previous “owner”. Hint: The decendants of the Aztecs, mayans and Incas etc. have no claim. Perhaps if the native Americans had defended their lands, they would still have them. Perhaps that is a lesson for us. We are being invaded, adn people like yourself are a 5′th column for the invaders.

            Yep, free trade isn’t free is it! “Free” trade has destroyed workign families EVERYWHERE! What about the 3 million manufacturing jobs that moved to Mexico after NAFTA? No sympathy for American workers eh?

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            “Slavery was outlawed”. 

            Not hardly. The Civil War was fought to shift slavery to the factory.

            “What about the 3 million manufacturing jobs that moved to Mexico after NAFTA?”
            Feel free to migrate to Mexico and see if you like the kind of “jobs” our American corporations offer there.

            And, pray tell, who was the one and only “owner” of Turtle Island?

          • bellavida

            In Wisconsin there are several dairies that hire undocumented workers because they have experience in milking animals and will work the hours.  

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            That is the reality all over American farm country. The migrants are helping the farmers and being helped out in return. It’s a win-win situation (and it keeps food cheap for those cheap Americans who won’t work hard farm jobs but demand $1.50 milk).

            But don’t tell that to VinceD2, as he’s convinced that it’s an invading horde, that all their employers are exploiting them, and they should all go straight to hell.

      • JGC

        Good satire has truth and is sad and is funny, all together at the same time,as you know.  It is meant to make one think. The best satire draws a line that makes one initially wonder from which side of the coin the satirist is working.  

        So it is funny and it is also true. And it is also regretful. Romney has an earnest truthiness streak that reveals the inner Romney, even as he is wildly working to obfuscate the topic.  

        The Wall Street Journal has gotten a hold of some of his long-lost e-mails as Massachusetts governor (the ones he tried to delete from the public record),  and while these concern mainly how he was a pioneer for the healthcare mandate,  I don’t doubt that back in the day he would have had a pragmatic yet compassionate streak for these young folks that grew up undocumented in the U.S.   

  • ND

    Unless you have been a young person in the United states with no papers, you can never understand what its like to work hard in school, get straight A’s in high school and not knowing that you dont have the right to go to College because you are not legal (something that you didnt know until its time to start applying for colleges). I was a dreamer and today, I am a law abiding United states citizen who fought her way through going to college and recently finished a Masters degree in accounting because someone believed that i should be legal in this country. Theese young people should not be punished for what their parents did to give them a better life than what they had in their native country

    • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

      Particularly not when the prime reason for their parents’ migration was to flee the economic conditions that US “free trade” treaties imposed on their native countries.

      • bellavida

        Exactly Robert.  I have family south of the border that were making a very decent living as farmers until “free trade” kicked in and then they could not compete with US subsidized corn prices that flooded the Mexican market. 

        • VinceD2

          “Free” Trade has harmed workers on all sides of all borders. This “globalization” is really “corporatization” and must be stopped.

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            Precisely. What is needed is open borders and fair trade.

          • VinceD2

            Well, we agree that FAIR trade needs to replace “FREE” trade. But open borders will never work.

            Mexico, because if it’s culture,(corruption, separation of wealth, overpopulation, etc)  will always be a poor country, and we cannot allow that to spill over here. Unfortunately, we’re neighbors, so the bulk of our illegals are Mexican. (So are the bulk of out LEGAL immigrants by the way!)

            Our workers have enough problems without having to compete with Mexico’s excess population. We simply need to stop this illegal migration/invasion. Alowign Mexico to export it’s poverty helps no one, it just allows the status quo to continue.

            That said, there area lot of things we could do to promote positive change in Mexico. Sending back 12 million or so of their citizens, many with a US education, might cause some changes. Obama hosting a state dinner for the Mexican president sends the wrong message too. Some tough love is needed!

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            “corruption, separation of wealth, overpopulation” – sounds like the US of A.

            Population, itself, is not so much the problem as consumption. Americans impact the earth 20 times as much as Mexicans. And Mexican poverty is mostly because that nation is a virtual colony of the US, made worse by NAFTA and GATT.

            The problem that most of the world faces is due to the culture of America. We have more to learn from Mexican peasants than they have to learn from us.

          • bellavida

            My parents were born Mexican peasants.  I learned a lot from them, including respect for the earth, respect for human beings, and the rejection of abject consumerism.  

          • legal immigrant

            Bellavida – Kudos to the good values you were taught! The world needs those values. But it has nothing to do with country of origin or occupation.

          • VinceD2

            Robert, America has it’s problems.

            Yes, overconsumption is one. And as soon as immigrants come here, they join that party.

            Population is a huge and growing problem. It’s also like a cancer in that the problems of today wil exponentiate tomorrow. Lok at these:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyTmClBU7nA&feature=related

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PpaoZE8oXk&NR=1

            I’ve been to China and seen their overpopulation, no, I don’t want it here.

            If we were smart, we’d reduce the population of this country to ~200m or so. That would allow a higher standard of living, conservation of the environment and a chance at energy independance. Of course, the fascists you speak of want ever higher numbers of workers and consumers  so the push for higher immigration continues. More peopel = more wealth for the fat cats, and a declining standard of living for the 99%

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            Reducing the US population by 1/3 and increasing the standard of living by 50% leaves the world in the same place it was before, but with the remaining Americans being even more of the global problem than before.

            The US already has the highest material consumption per capita in the world, and you want it even higher.

            It is just that kind of utter selfish greed that is destroying, not only the more-than-human environment, but also humanity’s chances of continuing as a viable species on this planet.

            There are no problems now which are not global problems. None can be addressed, let alone solved, within any nation-state, an obsolete institution that has created more strife than harmony.

            P.S. I don’t “educate” myself at YouTube (haven’t owned a TV since 1974). I read books and articles, and listen to NPR and BBC.

          • bellavida

            I concur.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1421666010 Wilbur Blount

    You played a sound by of Mitt Romney in which he refered to “democrat” lawmakers.  You should not play such clips.  Mitt Romney is the product the best schools in the world, the cost of his education is rivaled only by that of G.W. Bush’s.  He knows full and well that it is the Democratic party that opposes him.  If he were to refer to them as pinko bastard baby killers would you play the clip in the same context? If we want civil discourse from our political leaders we have to demand it and that starts with the media behaving responsibly as well. 

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Money GROSSLY wasted on two attempts at education?

    • Worried for the country(MA)

       Wow!!!  Thanks for pointing out the hate speech.

      You better send a memo to DWS and the DNC because their web site “democrats org”  should also be called out as well.

      Unbelievable.

    • Diogenes

      I am unsure about Cranbrook; any school which brooked bullying by the kid — to another kid or even a teacher — cannot really claim to be a “best school” can it?

  • Worried for the country(MA)

    Liberal constitutional law professor Jonathan Turley hammers Mr. Obama’s  latest naked political maneuvers as Nixonian and anti-constitutional.
     

  • Worried for the country(MA)

    Thank you President Obama.

    Youth unemployment is at 50% and you nailed the solution to their woes.
     

  • VinceD2

    We have over 20 million people who can’t find work. Much of this unemployment is concentrated in the young and minority voters that greatly helped Prez  Obama win in 2008. Illegals are already taking 7-8 million jobs that should be and would be done by LEGAL workers for a fair wage.
     
    Now he wants to essentially “sell” 2 million work permits (jobs) in exchange for “The Hispanic Vote”. These newly legal workers will cost 2 million American workers the possibility of having a job, all to help Prez Obama keep his job. That’s the equation: Obama gives 2 million jobs to illegals to save his own hide, and that is what the headlines should read.
     
    No matter how “deserving” these “Dreamers” may be, LEGAL American workers, especially the young and minority folks, do not “deserve” to have 20 million new workers to compete with as they try to enter the job market.
     
    Compassion for the illegal aliens? Perhaps, but this is also the ultimate cruelty to American citizens, already reeling in this economy.

  • AngelicaS

    Your guest Jake Tapper has absolutely no idea what he is talking about—- the issue of ILLEGAL immigration IS ABOUT THE ECONOMY.  Americans correctly interpret Obama’s unilateral grant of rewards and special treatment for immigration lawbreaking is PATENTLY UNACCEPTABLE TO THE VAST MAJORITY OF MOST AMERICAN CITIZEN VOTERS (including this life-long Democrat).  IT IS A DEAL-BREAKER!  Americans are NOT GOING TO ACCEPT approx. 1.4 Million Work (and let’s not ignore the massive fraud that will be underway in trying to fit within the Obama-dictated parameters) permits being granted to immigration lawbreakers when MILLIONS OF AMERICANS ARE OUT OF WORK!

    If you come here ILLEGALLY, you should be in fear of deportation— AND YOU SHOULD BE DEPORTED! We permit over 1 Million LEGAL IMMIGRANTS into our country EVERY YEAR!  If you cannot follow our laws, you do not deserve to be here!

    A GOVERNMENT WHICH REFUSES TO ENFORCE ITS OWN LAWS IS INTOLERABLE!

  • Greyman

    Dear Riverboat Birdsong :

    In a post appearing far down this page, you called me a liar
    for asserting that President Obama personally and by virtue of his office as
    POTUS has acted to suppress voting in Dillon County, SC, with his tacit approval
    of the conduct of local appointed public school officials who remain exempt from
    the kind of accountability that would come with elected office. Were you privy
    to the facts, perhaps you would not have made such a rash accusation. In your
    copious spare time, you may consider the following:

    http://thenerve.org/news/2011/07/11/popular-elections-in-dillon-schools-on-hold/

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-obama-school-girlfeb25,0,6067620.story

    http://www.salon.com/2009/02/27/washtimes_on_bethea/

    http://blogs.usda.gov/tag/ty%E2%80%99sheoma-bethea/

    http://articles.cnn.com/2009-02-24/politics/sotn.bethea_1_stimulus-school-construction-funding-ty-sheoma-bethea?_s=PM:POLITICS

    Do note, however, that not one enterprising journalists who
    reported in February 2009—not Howard Witt of the Chicago Tribune, not Joan
    Walsh of Salon, not even Melissa Block of NPR’s “All Things Considered” in her
    interview with Supt. Ray Rogers (sorry, I have no link for the transcript)—not one
    reported the salient fact that J. V. Martin Junior HS was in deplorable
    condition because, as Rick Brundrett shows clearly in his report for The Nerve,
    all members of the local district school board and all members of the county
    school board are appointed to office by three (elected) Democratic Party
    officeholders. The appointees charged with oversight and management of Dillon’s
    public schools are exempt from the kind of accountability that comes with
    elected office: the public itself has no possibility of overseeing the work of
    the unelected school boards, and this decades-long state of affairs has
    habituated the public to a low level of concern with the public schools,
    exactly as the record of student achievement shows. The other articles clearly
    show Obama was personally acquainted with the shabby conditions of the local
    schools. Perhaps he naively accepted at face value the local Democratic
    loyalist explanation that the horrid conditions were the sole responsibility of
    the Republican-dominated SC General Assembly. However, I credit the SCGA with prudence
    in not sending generous state funding to the appointed, unelected,
    unaccountable school board members whose “work” has been exempt from public
    scrutiny and participation for decades, whose steadfast and continuing
    resistance to elective office has in no small measure sown public disaffection with
    public education.

    • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

      I called you a liar, and an ignorant moron, and a lot of other very accurate descriptions. I stand by them all.

      • Greyman

        Now THAT’S hard-working prophetic zeal!

        • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

          Hardly. Any child can see you for what you are.

  • VinceD2

    Here is what the DREAM Act should say, if it was truly intended to show compassion for kids who were smuggled here by their parents:
     
    1)      Any illegal alien who is in school could be granted a student visa provided the following conditions are met:
    a.       They register
    b.      Their parents voluntarily leave and permanently forfeit any future opportunity to immigrate or visit.
    c.       The student agrees to leave upon graduation or cessation of studies.
    d.      A GPA requirement is enforced.
    e.      The (student/parents/home country or private sponsors) are responsible for ALL expenses. No work permit will be issued.
    f.        The student is not eligible for ANY path to citizenship for 5 years after returning to the home country. No marriage visas, anchor babies etc.
    g.       Full biometrics must be taken of the student AND the parents.
    h.      If under 18, a LEGAL resident must be identified as the guardian.
    i.         The parents must identify their employers for at least the previous 5 years.
    2)      STRICT border and interior enforcement MUST be included to prevent more illegals from coming. Think HR 2885 and ending birthright citizenship.
    OK, this would help the poor innocent students who were brought here. They would get their education, and should do quite well back home with that education. They would also be eligible to come here in the future. Maybe they would make Mexico a better place to live! The parents would not be rewarded.
    This is compassion without stupidity.

    • JGC

      That is not compassionate at all. As for the stupidity component, well…

      • VinceD2

        This is compassionate and just. American workers get back a fair job market, the illegal aliens are returned to their home country, the ones brought here as kids get an American education.

        Now try to imagine what a few million American educated young adults returning to Mexico could do for that nation! The Mexican elites would shudder at that thought! (And they should!)

        • JGC

          I see too many snapshots to try to write a coherent theme, but here are a few:

          1.) I worked at a horticultural farm in Pennsylvania in the 1990s, and I was one of the few white locals to be hired there. It was made clear if I couldn’t keep up with the other hired hands (from mainly Mexico, but there were a couple of Bulgarian workers,too), I would get my first and last paycheck on the same day.  These folks worked hard, very hard and I kept my job for the season, and probably barely. I have not been able to look at a Christmas wreath the same way since, but more as a matter of pride, how hard everyone worked in the unheated barns all day long to turn out a beautiful product, not that I felt exploited. There were not many other employees with native U.S. citizenship, so that told me something there: there had to be a reason the employer could not find enough local hirees to fill his employment roster.

          2.) They are not all from Mexico. And if you are brought up in the U.S. and are functionally American, it is not compassionate to return you to your parents’ home country, with no knowledge of language and culture.  

          3.) I think the U.S. is a bit different, just a bit, but in Canada, there is truly a worry over the birth replacement rate. Canada needs to rely on bringing in an immigrant populace to maintain growth, and they have fashioned their policy to reflect the education level of immigrants they accept. There is less and less immigration policy as a matter of family reunification, for example. It makes no sense to educate a sector (youth in their teens and twenties) and then ship them off to other countries for these other rival countries to  exploit their brain capital.

          More in my dreams, I am sure…

    • Gregg

      I could go for that but the truth is, anything that can survive the legislative process and gain the President’s signature would at least be legitimate. What the President has done here is not.

      • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

        Bull shit.

    • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

      That’s fascism, as American as apple pie.

      • VinceD2

        No, that would be helping the children that were brought here to get their education and not reward the criminal tresspassing identity and job stealing parents who smuggled them here. Common sense without stupidity. Sorry you can’t understand that.

        • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

          I understand all too well. It’s fascism.

          • VinceD2

            OK, so you’ve learned a new word, but not the meaning. There is nothing “Fascist” about wanting our borders and workplaces secure. (And if you think our laws are tough, sneak into Mexico adn see how they treat you!)  

            Let’s try another tack, can you give even ONE logical, well thought our REASON why we should reward illegal behavior? Not some emotional tripe, but a well thought REASON.

            Sure, I feel bad for these kids, but it’s their parents who put them in this situation. Why not allow them to get an education and send them home to make the home country better? Why not? They could apply to immigrate LEGALLY later.

            OK, so you want to let them stay? Would you agree to permanently deport the criminal parents in exchange? Or are you insisting on an all or nothing amnesty?

            Do you have any compassion for the American worker? Trust me, the American workers have been decimated by NAFTA also, you want to victimize them again? THINK!

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            There’s nothing “new” about good ole American fascism. American industrialists and bankers always preferred it to  free market democracy, supported Hitler before and during WWII and attempted a fascist coup d’etat against FDR (it’s on the Congressional Record).

            National sovereignty and national borders are figments of our imaginations. Everyone has an inalienable right of mobility (Jefferson said that) because it’s necessary for subsistence, undocumented migrants are not illegals, and it is the unconscionable consumer lifestyle of Americans, including the working Joe, which is directly responsible for the displacement of Mexican peasants and workers.

            So don’t give me a sob story about the “poor” ‘Merican worker. And don’t give me any more of your fascist, police-state ideas about seeking vengeance against migrants.

          • VinceD2

            Robert,I dont’ knwo know what alternate “reality” you live in, but perhaps you should put that hookah down for a while. Borders are real and nations have the right to defend them. Yes, perple who cross those borders without permission are illegal aliens.

            Are we Amercans perfect? Of course not. Many want cheaply produced goods and wre willing to put their neighbors on unemployment to get the cheap stuff.

            Police state vengence? Hardly! Go to Mexico for that!

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            Well, I do know what mythical reality you live in: the one that has been taught in public schools (indoctrination facilities), at home and in the mainstream media for generations – the one that supports the status quo of generalized slavery by keeping people from seeing the Matrix that is the atmosphere they breathe.

            Asking you to see that larger reality is like asking a fish to  fly so that it can describe the ocean.

            If borders are real, then please point them out on the Apollo high-resolution pictures of the earth. Defending figments of the collective imagination is nothing more than the sandbox mentality of selfish children: “It’s mine and if you touch it I’m going to bonk you over the head.”

            If you want to remain a child in a world that’s facing so many crises that it demands grownups, that’s your choice.

            And if you want to remain so deliberately blind that you can’t notice the creeping police state that Bush instigated (with Patriot Act et al) after 9/11 and that Obama has continued and advanced, then that’s also your choice – conscious or not.

            But don’t expect the rest of us to remain in that sandbox with you. 

          • a legal immigrant

            Robert, I am not going to argue with you because it is not worth arguing with someone whose brain is only big enough to hold the word “fascism” and use it on anything indiscriminately. That kind of brain is the fish that can’t fly, only that the fish did not choose to be self-handicapped. Enjoy the sand.

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            You’re not going to argue because 1)you’re incapable of honest argument and 2)you’re just another pseudonym who doesn’t have the courage of his convictions.

          • VinceD2

            Robert,

            When you grow up, accept the realities of the world and gain the maturity to have a civil conversation, we’ll try again. Until then, please know that in the eyes of most people, you’re a nutcase.

            Borders are real and to be respected. Not everything you disagree with is “fascist”. You are the name calling child, enjoy your sandbox.

  • Roy.Mac

    Never heard of Joe Dana, but one question he might be able to clear up:  “Do you need to be a vindictive bitch like Jan Brewer to become the governor of Arizona?”

  • JGC

    For those folks who are truly worried about voting and illegal folks corrupting the vote (and that includes illegal aliens and out-of-state college students and dead people, etc.) I have to say their individual vote in your jurisdiction is very far down on the list of their day-to-day concerns. (Especially for the dead folks!)

    Most people, if they are among those civic-minded enough to want to vote, also want to get it done right.  They are not plotting how to outwit the system.  They don’t have the time or money or energy to extensively plan how to slip their vote into your district.  And if that person is here as an undocumented person, they do not want to vote and draw any attention to themselves at all. 

    • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

      On the other hand, there’s been a very well-documented history of very real election fraud on the part of the GOP:

      Loser Take All: Election Fraud and The Subversion of Democracy, 2000 – 2008 by Mark Crispin Miller

      How to Steal an Election: The Inside Story of How George Bush’s Brother and FOX Network Miscalled the 2000 Election and Changed the Course of History by David W. Moore

      Supreme Injustice: How the High Court Hijacked Election 2000 by Alan M. Dershowitz
       
      The Betrayal of America: How the Supreme Court Undermined the Constitution and Chose Our President by Vincent Bugliosi, Molly Ivins, Gerry Spence
       
      What Happened in Ohio: A Documentary Record of Theft and Fraud in the 2004 Election by Bob Fitrakis, Steve Rosenfeld, Harvey Wasserman

      Was the 2004 Presidential Election Stolen?: Exit Polls, Election Fraud, and the Official Count by Steve Freeman & Joel Bleifuss
       
      Armed Madhouse: From Baghdad to New Orleans–Sordid Secrets and Strange Tales of a White House Gone Wild by Greg Palast

    • bellavida

      Having been a resident alien until I was 23 (also known as legal immigrant or green card holder), I can assure you before I or my parents became naturalized citizens, it never crossed our minds to vote.  

    • Warren

      The Koch Brothers are Libertarians.They have given 550million to charity(hospitals,MIT,etc).They sponsor NPR,as does the Catholic cHURCH.NPR is a corporation and Tom A. makes $350,000.00 per annum.The Kochs have given 150 million to Libertarian politicians.Compared to Soros they are Pikers.JCG,meet Riversong.I now pronounce you man and wife.May you skip through life together, picking petty fights
       By the way,thannks for your tip.Me and all my mates are buying stock in Lycra companies.

      • JGC

        What do the Koch Bros have to do with this conversation?  Or is there something they haven’t been telling me?

  • Dannsmith123

    Obama is a traitor of the worst kind. He pretends he is an American while doing everything against Americans!! He should be impeached for not upholding the law and the will of the people! VOTE HIM OUT!

    • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

      And he’s a commie, fascist, Kenyan, anti-colonialist, Muslim alien invader.

      • Greyman

        Oh, by the way, Robert: what do you think of Carlos Castaneda? Your unconventional ideas are strikingly reminiscent, and in a significantly disturbing way.

        • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

          He was also a commie, fascist, Kenyan, anti-colonialist, Muslim alien invader.

          What do you think of him?

          [I think you were deeply disturbed before I ever showed up.]

          • Greyman

            As a prophet, your obvious inferior.

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            Castaneda was a shaman, not a prophet.

            “Your (sic) obvious (sic)” mistaken (about everything).

          • Greyman

            Ahhh! So he was a false prophet! Clearly, his prophetic vocation derived from the wrong latitude and the wrong altitude both, quite unlike your dyspeptic accomplishments:
            http://riversong.wordpress.com/about/  . . . Innocently, I say “dyspeptic”, it may be more accurate to diagnose your neo-pagan sufferings as constipation of the soul. (Funny, I’d long thought that the only communities boasting prophets were Hebrew, Christian, or Islamic. You have learned me something new, Riverbloat!)

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            You will address me by my name or reveal the truth that you desire no dialogue but merely worthless diatribe.

          • Greyman

            You are the acknowledged master of merely worthless diatribe, I’ll give you that.

        • Gregg

          I read all of the Don Juan books back in the day. They went well with shrooms.

      • J__o__h__n

        You forgot socialist.

      • Gregg

        Nah, just your garden variety traitor.

  • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

    Marco Rubio Says He Would Come To The U.S. Illegally If He Had To

    Hypothetically, if Marco Rubio were not an American citizen and could not provide food for his family, he says he would cross the border illegally to come to the United States.
    While discussing immigration policy in his new memoir, An American Son, Rubio called for “common decency” in dealing with undocumented immigrants and said that if put in a similar position as those who are fleeing destitution, he would break the law, too.

    “Many people who come here illegally are doing exactly what we would do if we lived in a country where we couldn’t feed our families,” Rubio writes in his book, which went on sale Tuesday.  “If my kids went to sleep hungry every night and my country didn’t give me an opportunity to feed them, there isn’t a law, no matter how restrictive, that would prevent me from coming here.”

    New Asian Immigrants To US Now Surpass Hispanics

    For the first time, the influx of Asians moving to the U.S. has surpassed that of Hispanics, reflecting a slowdown in illegal
    immigration while American employers increase their demand for high-skilled workers.

    With net migration from Mexico now at zero, the role of Asian-Americans has become more important.

    About 430,000 Asians, or 36 percent of all new immigrants, arrived in the U.S. in 2010, according to the latest census data. That’s compared to about 370,000, or 31 percent, who were Hispanic.

  • Diogenes

    Have read most of the “pro” responses, and have a strong sense of care for fellow man/woman. But, if we give even “temporary” provision for this group, won’t that be incentive to desperate parents to get into the US in the hopes their children will be accommodated, at some point in the future? And how does one determine an appropriate and fair “line” — over which everyone else is left on “auto-deport”?

    • http://www.facebook.com/progressiveblue Ann Woods

       Immigrants, documented or not, come to the U.S. for work, and no other reason. In fact, immigration from Spanish-speaking countries has dropped since the start of the recession because there’s not enough work.  Do you really believe some dirt-poor, possibly illiterate Mexican or Nicaraguan is going to think: Oh, now I’ll move to the U.S. in the vague hope that my children will get a college education. Get real. 

      • feettothefire

         Believe it or not, Ann, you’ll soon learn that people with the ability to think are frowned upon here. Real thinking leaves too little room for the inflexible, ideological foolishness they like to believe has something to do with the objective thought process. Good luck, anyway.

  • Tonykramer

    In the intro Tom mentions Military vets. Military vets? I don’t know how the military could justify enlisting illegal immigrants? Is their vetting process a joke or do they just turn a blind eye? 

    • feettothefire

       I thought employers were required to check the citizenship of their employees. Isn’t the military an employer? If illegal immigrants are just fine for military service, I can’t understand why we wouldn’t want them mowing our lawns or changing our motel sheets.

  • Wenda

    This is so sad.  I’m a liberal but that doesn’t mean I don’t believe the laws should be followed.  The president may have won many Latino votes with this action, but he’s probably lost mine.  I won’t vote for Romney, so don’t know what I’ll do.  The alliance that favors illegal immigration includes not just the illegals themselves, but big business and soft-headed do-gooders who don’t feel personally threatened by an increased labor pool.  The laws are important; and if we want to have open borders then that should be made the law.  But the laws should be enforced, not run around by executive fiat. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/progressiveblue Ann Woods

       So this is where you draw the line in the sand? Not voting for President Obama is a tacit vote for Romney. Are you really willing to accept the end of the Affordable Health Care Act, lower taxes for the top 1%, even less regulation than we had before the meltdown, trashing a woman’s right to choose, yet more austerity cuts that disproportionally affect the vulnerable….really, you’re really willing to accept all that just because a few children of undocumented immigrants will get an education? Really? REALLY?

      • Wenda

         I said he’s probably lost my vote.  I haven’t made up my mind yet.  There’s no doubt the president is better than Romney, but I really dislike his blatant pandering on this issue, I think the U.S. has enough people, and I believe in enforcing the laws.  Even though I think the U.S. has enough people, it would be fine with me if they increased the number of legal immigrants from Latin America.  But then, for crying out loud, enforce the law.  I don’t think it’s a bad thing to control immigration.  Most countries — including, I’ve heard, Mexico — do. The U.S. should be an anomaly in this regard?  The law should mean nothing?

  • Warren

    Let the kids stay and give the parents a shot citizenship.Just no Welfare for 5 years.Why worry about the Mexicans when we have the horrendous Ghettos.One out of every three black males are in prison,parole,or probation.More Black males are in jail then college.Out of wedlock births in the ghetto are 90%.The general black population has 70% out of wedlock births.Give these poor blokes a school voucher and reintroduce the two parent family.Afford Marriage bonuses not marriage penalties.Leave the friggin Mexicans alone.CNN said Mexicans were the hardest workers in the world and the Belgians ,the biggest slugs.
                 Poor Rahm Emmanuel and his teacher union dilema!!!Here’s my advice Rahm,bust the union.
             Al Shanker(main teacher’s union Poobah(?)once said….”When School Children start paying union dues,that’s when I’ll start representing the interests of school children”

    • VinceD2

      Perhaps if we hadn’t outsourced so many jobs and allowed so much “importation of workers” (legal and otherwise), the lower rungs of the economic ladder would be in place.

      Unfortunately, our politicians are owned by big business (BOTH PARTIES!) and assuring cheap exploitable labor trumps looking out for OUR OWN people.

      • Warren

        Term Limits

  • feettothefire

    Why are there so many dim-wits posting to this message board who don’t know the meaning of simple words such as “criminal,” “illegal,” and “rights?” Executive orders exist for a reason. God only knows what that reason is. But, these claims of illegality are as stupid as the claims launched at Supreme Court Justices. “If I don’t agree with your decision, you’re an activist judge. If I do agree with you, you’re a clear headed, honest jurist. If I agree with the Presidents sentiments, especially if I’m in his party, his executive orders are just fine with me. If I disagree, especially if I’m in the opposite party, he’s a traitor forcing illegal policies on the country. Will the grown-ups in this country ever actually grow up?

  • feettothefire

    Whatever Obama feels in his heart about his recent moves on immigration, which were obviously done at a time designed to enhance his standing with Hispanic voters, at least he had the courage do do something knowing it would incur the wrath of many millions of voters. Mitt Romney, however, always the consummate politician (read: cowardly flip-flopper) refused several times on Face The Nation to state if he would repeal Obama’s moves. How in the world can Republican voters be duped by this unprincipled, calculating dilettante?

  • Slipstream

    Obama said this is not amnesty, this is not something else… He declined to mention that it is an election year ploy to drum up support among Latino & Asian voters.  While I certainly sympathize with the situation of these young people, if they are here illegally, then they should be made to wait until the laws are sorted out by the Congress and the White House.

    And it raises questions – if the children get this pass, then will their parents still be open to deporatation?  Why favor younger illegal immigrants over older ones?  It is good that the Obama administration is deporting criminals who are here illegally, but they are only a small part of the problem. 

    I am a Democrat, but Obama needs to start doing more to convince voters like me – heterosexual men who are legal citizens – that I should vote for him again.  Fortunately for him, Romney has only been attacking and attacking, and not presenting any reasons why anybody should vote for him.

  • Slipstream

    Sorry, Mr. President, but coming to the USA, staying illegally, then having babies should not be a path for a family to gain permanent legal resident status.  At a time when the country’s population has grown so rapidly, and so many American citizens are having a hard time finding decent jobs, it is hard to justify a move like this.

ONPOINT
TODAY
Jul 24, 2014
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The cold hard facts about juvenile prisons. And the case for shutting them all down. Plus: former Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton is with us.

Jul 24, 2014
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We’ll look at the new science of what plants feel, smell, see – and remember.

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Crisis at the US border. What do Latinos on this side of the border have to say? We’ll ask our special roundtable.

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