90.9 WBUR - Boston's NPR news station
Top Stories:
PLEDGE NOW
Week In The News: JP Morgan, Facebook, Europe Struggles

JP Morgan loses it. Europe wobbles. Facebook fever. Our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

A demonstrator hit a pot during a protest to mark the anniversary of the "Indignados" movement in Sol square, Madrid, Spain, Tuesday May 15, 2012. Spaniards angered by increasingly grim economic prospects and unemployment hitting one out of every four citizens protested in droves in the nation's largest cities, marking the one-year anniversary of a spontaneous movement that inspired similar anti-authority demonstrations across the planet. (AP)

A demonstrator hit a pot during a protest to mark the anniversary of the "Indignados" movement in Sol square, Madrid, Spain, Tuesday May 15, 2012. Spaniards angered by increasingly grim economic prospects and unemployment hitting one out of every four citizens protested in droves in the nation's largest cities, marking the one-year anniversary of a spontaneous movement that inspired similar anti-authority demonstrations across the planet. (AP)

All the world thinking about a “Greek exit” from the Euro-zone this week, and what it might mean from Athens to Arkansas to Ahmedabad for world markets and the global economy. Scary. The G8 hits Camp David today, sweating for an answer. At home, JP Morgan stumbles big.

Attack ad talk. Facebook fever. A pile of evidence comes out in the Trayvon Martin case. California’s up against the budget wall. A majority of all births in America are now non-white babies. And disco queen Donna Summer signs off.

This hour, On Point: our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

-Tom Ashbrook

Guests

Chrystia Freeland, editor of Thomson Reuters Digital.

Jon Healy, editorial board member at the Los Angeles Times.

Jack Beatty, On Point news analyst.

From Tom’s Reading List

New York Times “After years of speculation, estimates and projections, the Census Bureau has made it official: White births are no longer a majority in the United States.”

Foreign Policy “French President Francois Hollande and German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who held their first meeting yesterday, might want to consider that they have been attacking the problems of Greece, the euro, Spain, Portugal, Italy, and even France backwards.”

Wired “Sometime in early 2004, as Mark Zuckerberg was furiously coding the first iterations of The Facebook in his Harvard dorm room, the Internet passed what then seemed to be an impressive milestone: 750 million people worldwide had become connected. The exact birthdate of the Internet is difficult to pin down, but it’s fair to say that it took at least three decades for the net to reach a population of that size.”

Video of the Week

Check out this video of Blue Jays third baseman Brett Lawrie throwing his helmet and hitting umpire Bill Miller.

Please follow our community rules when engaging in comment discussion on this site.
  • Roy Mac

    Facebook is not news.  It is only another pump & dump exercise by–oh, dear!  could it really be?–JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs.  I smell PetSMart.  Keep your hands clenched tight on your 401K if you don’t want to end up like me.

    • Hidan

       You be shocked what price JPM,MS,BOA,GS bought Facebook IPO and the discount they managed to get even before facebook went public.

  • JGC

    Two views on the education crisis:

    1.)Last Sunday’s (13 May) NYT front page article on the cost of a U.S. university/college education.   Many students (and their families) going into high 5, even 6 figure debt to get through their degree, and many families not even understanding the fine print to access this assistance (what they think are scholarships turn out to be loans). Bottom line: the debt is huge, and not well explained by university marketing departments. Many students working 2 or 3 part-time jobs to re-pay the $500 to $900 per month loans.

    2.) Quebec is  having a huge student uprising because: education is not free.  Meaning, totally free. They want an entitlement of  totally free higher education.   The province wants to increase the tuition for the first time in 20 years by about $250 next year, and the same amount each year for the next seven years, so that in the year 2019, a Quebec resident could get their undergraduate degree for less than $15,000 CDN for a 4-yr degree. And the province is even offering to subsidize the lower income families, and offer bursaries to some of the middles, so in actual fact, only the top 40% will end up paying the full $15K. But the student unions are still not accepting it. Because of the uprising, officials plan to shut down the affected universities until the next school year. 

    So one set of students in North America paying well over $100K to get their bachelor’s degree, to try to get access to a more secure financial future, in spite of the hurdles put up by college administrations and the banks.  Another set, faced with a bill of less than $15K, rejects it because they feel education is a basic right, like food, shelter and the right to vote. 

    Where is the middle ground? Disappearing, I think, just like the middle class.

     

    • ClemO1

      Salute’

    • jefe68

      Countries that have free education systems:

      Algeria
      Argentina
      Barbados
      Brazil
      Belgium
      China
      Croatia
      Cuba
      Denmark
      Finland
      France
      Greece
      Hungary
      Iran
      Kenya
      Malta
      Mauritius
      Morocco
      Norway
      Poland
      Russia
      Scotland
      Slovakia
      Sri Lanka
      Sweden
      Trinidad and Tobago
      Tunisia
      Brunei
      Turkey
      Oman
      Saudi Arabia
      Uruguay
      Botswana

      • Gregg

         It’s not free.

        • Don_B1

          Yes, taxpayers put up the money, but the increased earnings the graduates will make over what they otherwise would have, greatly increases the countries’ GDP and therefore the taxpayer investment is well paid back. [Just like K-12 education benefits EVERYONE in the U.S.]

          • Zing

             Where were you yesterday, Don…there are no jobs; hence no increased GDP

          • Don_B1

            Right here:

            http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/18/presidential-job-records/

            Certainly there are not enough jobs, but that is mostly BECAUSE of Republican opposition to Obama’s approaches to creating jobs.

            And those graphs compare EIGHT years of Bush with less than THREE and a half years of Obama. When you consider the HOLE that Obama started in, and how the Republicans tied one of his arms behind his back, he is doing pretty well.

            I do wish he had played the “game” better and called the Republicans on their game from the start, but he had run on reducing the partisanship which led him to keep trying to get Republican support for his policies that they had supported in other occasions. But they were determined to do everything to make Obama a “One-Term President.”

            May the graduating students take note of that and vote Democratic at least this time, until Republicans are brought to their senses. That last may not be meaningful: they have to come to a better understanding of how the world really works.

          • Fredlinskip

             Perhaps the no jobs and lack of better educational systems are related?
            Perhaps a shrinking middle class as $ funnels up to the privileged few are related?

            Since consumer spending is the largest driver of our economy, perhaps a smaller middle class effects our economy?

            Perhaps increased GDP will not effect unemployment much if all the profits go to the top?

            GOP policy and “think-tanks” seem to be  all about prosperity of a few.

        • nj_v2

          Everybody butt Greggg knew what it meant. Or Greggg knows, too, and he justt wants to placate his inner trolll.

    • Gregg

      Isn’t the middle ground wherever we choose? It’s kind of silly to go 100′s of K’s into debt for a Humanities degree. It’s kind of silly to be ignorant in this age while waiting for someone to educate you. It’s kind of silly to get to be 30 and not have the skills to earn more than minimum wage. And it’s really silly to believe you have no choice in your earning potential.

      • Stillin

        Wow aren’t we smart.

      • Don_B1

        College is more than just learning a trade, and the humanities provides people the framework for making life decisions and understanding their role in life. It is real important for at least some to specialize in the humanities so the rest of us can learn in single or a short series of courses. We do need to import into our thinking the lessons of history, for just one necessary guide to decision making. Not that history ever repeats exactly, but it certainly follows certain trends and cycles.

        What humanities can do is help us understand what is both the same and different in a country’s situation from past experience.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Gregg, in one comment, just eliminated MOST of our physicans, chiropractors, advanced astrophysicists, scientists, chemists, physicists, millitary pilots, and many other professions.
           No Biggie, ‘Job Creators’, will import MORE, so they can charge MORE, and pay LESS?

      • Zero

        You should open up a history book and see what has happened to societies that encourage and discourage the humanities.

        • Gregg

          Do you encourage going hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt?

          • bellavida

            I encourage the proper funding of public universities.

          • Zero

            I encourage paying for our public institutions with taxes on the wealthy. It is possible, and a lot of countries do it and are successful. Plus, the next bubble is student loans.

  • Zero

    The New Yorker had a piece about Citizens United this week.  Citizens United, the group, argued that congress did not intend to prohibit propaganda documentaries/movies during election season.  They were only arguing for that narrow issue, but the conservative judges expanded the argument on their own to include television and radio advertisements.  The conservative judges, as we know, ended up wiping away a hundred years of campaign finance law.

    One would think that the New Yorker piece and the New York Times piece about superpac strategies would inform people that this new conservative movement is insidious, but what else can we do?  

    • denis

      and tak about activist judges!

    • Guest

      Personally, I’m glad for the Citizens United decision.  The amount of money the PACs spend to influence votes pales in insignificance to the tax money that the Congress uses to buy votes. 

      • denis

        and where is the supporting data for that statement?

        • Guest

          Look at congressional spending.  With the talk of debt limits, deficits, tax hikes, and on and on, do you really think that the members of Congress believe it is an essential function of government that we have cowboy poetry festivals, teapot and neon sign museums, a steamboat interpretive center, simulated rain forest in Iowa, and other projects too numerous to mention, or do you think it’s likely that this tax money bought the votes of a constituency?

          • denis

            Actually I do believe that in most instances they do believe they are benefitting their constituency with the programs they push and in most instances they do not personally benefit financially. For example, you note Grassley’s support for the rain forest in Iowa. I live about 10 miles from the site they selected. It is my understanding there was a lot of support for the idea but it failed when the “fiscal responsible” republicans in Pella Iowa realized they would have to kick money and the government would not pay for all of it.  They could not come up with the private sector money. 

    • Azra

      Deregulation. No rules. Anything goes. They won’t be happy until we’re a completely lawless nation.

      Our founding fathers must be rolling in their graves.

  • Azra

    Until this week, we thought that Mitt Rimney was sociopath. Then, Sunday, we listened to “This American Life”, and learned that he is, indeed, a psychopath. Psychopaths not only LACK EMPATHY, they also ENJOY FIRING PEOPLE, SHUTTING DOWN FACTORIES, and . . . wait for it . . . ENJOY TORTURING ANIMALS! All these things were mentioned, and then some. It’s Mitt to a T, right down to the fact that he’s “EASY TO ANGER”; not someone who’s finger we want on that button of destiny. Maybe he was able to see Russia from Sarah Palin’s porch, and he knows as much about the world as she does. Mitt doesn’t even know that the Cold War ended 20 years ago!!! His lack of knowledge is staggering, especially in one who is running for PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES! To be fair, he never claimed to be anything but a businessman, a very bad one, but a businessman, nonetheless . . like George W. Bush. With any luck, Mitt might be able to rustle up a vice-president who has taken a course in Civics, and American history.

    Even if his blunders don’t immediately throw us into World War Three, the facts still remains that he is extremely ignorant, (a laughing stock, and a very dangerous one, at that), and Mitt is mean! Dogsagainstromney!

    Don’t let this psychopath anywhere near the White House, and that button of fate, I implore you.

    Thanks,
    Seamus

    • Azra

      Meant to put “whose”, not “who’s”

    • ana

      I am not a fan or Mitt Romney and disagree with his avowed policies, but to label him a  psychopath is going a bit far.    
       

      • Azra

        Maybe. I’m not a professional, but those on the program are. If you listen to it, it’s difficult not to reach that conclususion. Besides, psychopathy is fairly common. Mitt shows all the signs mentioned, even cruelty to animals, and traumatizing a classmate, with scissors; two very telling incidents, which he thinks nothing of. Is that normal? The program never mentioned anything about Mitt, but from the start, it was obvious to ME that Mitt fits the profile. If you listen to the podcast, you’ll probably agree with me.

        • ana

          I just think that blase labeling should be avoided.  It takes much professional evaluation to make such a serious diagnosis.
          Let the Repubs keep the corner on unfounded accusations.

          • Azra

            You’re absolutely right. Sorry.

      • TFRX

        Maybe we should let Politifact figure it out, and then have the mainstream press put the controversy over whether Romney’s a psychopath to rest once and for all.

        After all, birthers never get traction in the news any more.

        • Azra

          Excellent idea!

  • Azra

    Japan has finally shut down tha last of it’s fifty nuclear power plants, preferring no electricity to the alternative. China has left us in the dust, in so many ways, but especially when it comes to clean, safe energy. No doubt, they will soon be filling that gap, by providing Japan with safe, inexpensive, renewable fuel. Getting in at the ground floor makes all the difference, and it looks like we’ve missed our chance.

  • PaxtonQuigley

    http://billmoyers.com/video/page/5/

    Familiar reality, where have I seen you before?

  • Jack Marshak
    • Jack Marshak

      Now we know why all of Obama’s visa, health, and school records are sealed.

      • Gregg

        The last thing Obama wants is for his college records to be released. My guess is he did a lot of anti-American ranting.

        • Azra

          Why would he have done that?

          • Gregg

            He’s not a fan, he wanted to fundamentally transform her.

        • ana

          At least  you are hoping he did.

        • DemocratPartyBlows

          and crack maybe.

          • Rfvdvv

            RMSK

        • TFRX

          You’re getting pretty desperate for May.

          But lets play that game. When a professor requires a student to read something, its meaningless. I had to read a book on the change of sci-fi after the H-bomb tests; what does it say about me?

          For the real dirt, I want to see Obama’s library records for non-required reading. And if it’s not extreme enough, we can OKeefe (fabricate) whatever we want and Drudge (vomit) it all over the mainstream press.

        • Azra

          What possible reason could you have for making such a guess, except that you were kidding, of course?

        • Rfgiyuf

          RMSK

        • Don_B1

          What other president or candidate has released college records? GWB would not release his Air National Guard records, not to mention his Yale or Harvard records.

          The release of those records would only lead to more red herring arguments over irrelevant things like a “B” in some subject rather than an “A” or that he took a philosophy course rather than a business course.

          And of course, when Obama released his “full birth certificate” that stopped the “birthers” in their tracks and put the issue to bed, right?

          Full of hogwash! Instead of “kool-aid” that should be the Republican drink.

      • Upolkznm

        RMSK

    • JustSayin

       I’m no Obama fan, but that kind of Drudge was rebuked in the MSM as soon as it hit the air:  http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/born-kenya-obamas-literary-agent-misidentified-birthplace-1991/story?id=16372566#.T7WvDXlYtR8

      “…”…
      A possible source of the so-called “birther” issue–or at least a
      potential cause of the rumors that have dogged President Barack
      Obama–has been identified.

      Obama’s former literary agency misidentified his birthplace as Kenya
      while trying to promote the then-Harvard Law grad as an author in 1991.

      According to a promotional booklet produced by the agency, Acton &
      Dystel, to showcase its roster of writers, Obama was “born in Kenya and
      raised in Indonesia and Hawaii.”

      Miriam Goderich edited the text of the bio; she is now a partner at the Dystel & Goderich agency, which lists Obama as one of its current clients.

      “This was nothing more than a fact checking error by me–an agency
      assistant at the time,” Goderich wrote in an emailed statement to Yahoo
      News. “There was never any information given to us by Obama in any of
      his correspondence or other communications suggesting in any way that he
      was born in Kenya and not Hawaii. I hope you can communicate to your
      readers that this was a simple mistake and nothing more. …”

      • Azra

        They’re becoming more and more desperate, now even using tricks that didn’t work for McCain.

      • TFRX

        I salute your use of “Drudge” as an epithet.

      • Ride8575

        Don’t expect something as trivial as the Truth to get in the way of the racist conspiracy nuts.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      His mother was a U.S. Citizen, so this is a moot point. 
         UNLESS you insist on declaring the children of ALL U.S.  citizens, born outside the U.S., as Non-U.S. citizens?  Millirary, Diplomats, Tourists that weren’t aware they were close?
         My grandchildren, born elsewhere, ARE U.S. Citizens!

      IF this is the best arguement you have, ALL you have is empty hate, and distraction!

      • Gregg

        I think the Constitution requires a person to be born in America to become President, not just a citizen.

        • MrNutso

          A person must be a native-born citizen, or if born outside the U.S. to parents who were both citizens of the U.S.

          • Ride8575

            MrSoNuts:
            It does not say that. The phrase in the Constitution is “natural born,” not “native born.” It is understood by the vast majority of actual legal scholars (as opposed to Tea Party poseurs and other racists) to mean anyone either born on US soil or born to a US citizen. There is no requirement that both parents be citizens.

        • denis

          and what are the exact words of the constitution on this.. where in the constitution does it exactly say what you  are stating?  

          • Azra

            Check with the President. Since he was a professor of Constitutional law, and not a business man, he knows the Constitution inside and out.

            Better yet, take a Civics class. We learned all that in sixth grade. Are you a citizen? This is basic stuff.

          • denis

            Azra… refer to the post by Ride8575. It seems you did not learn very well in the 6th grade. And yes it is basic stuff… my grandson born in a foreign country to a U.S. citizen [my son] and his foreign national wife can in fact someday if he so choses run for President of the U.S.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Azra and you agree.

        • jefe68

          Well that’s an interesting point.
          John McCain was born in Panama, although I think it was on American territory though.
          Anyway you right wingers sure know how to drag on a dead issue and then when it’s dead you keep on beating it some more.

          What this is really about is the delegitimization of President Obama and the Democratic party, nothing more or less.

          • TFRX

            Anyone on the right remember their stiffy to wipe out that “natural born” clause when Ahnuld looked like he might have a political future?

          • Don_B1

            They love Zombie issues because they feed the “base’s” conspiracy-minded thinking.

        • Don_B1

          If that were true, neither John McCain (Panama Canal Zone) or George Romney (Mexico) could have been presidential candidates.

        • Ride8575

          Wrong. But I’m sure you won’t let that slow you down. 

        • Terry Tree Tree

          READ the Constitution, and requirements to be President? 
             That ‘too complicated’?

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Think again.  OR go look it up.   McCain was born in Panama.

      • Azra

        Don’t forget John McCain.

    • Azra

      Give it a rest! This nonsense was dismissed years ago. He’s President. Get over it already.

      • jefe68

        This guy is here to troll, nothing more.
        Ignore the loon. 

    • DemocratPartyBlows

      We should just take him at his word, he never lies… LMFAO

    • 8ohuijhya

      RMSK

    • Azra

      It’s never too late to sign up for a Civis class. Don’t be ashamed.

  • WadDZed

    We non let non wit majic undees b presdent

  • Ed

    Secretary Clinton met with recovering victims of sexual slavery in a country in Asia. But she supports the one child policy in China, forced abortion, probably the largest civil rights violation in world history. And because of the shortage of women, there are women sold into slavery and prostitution.

    Ironic that she was faced with defending Mr. Chen, who protested against this policy that attacks women and children, but predictably she didn’t meet with him.

    Mr. Chen, the civil rights hero, might still get to leave China, maybe, but his lawyers and extended famly have beaten (see Chris Smith hearings).

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Catholic altar boys?  Catholic school girls? OR other sex slaves?

    • JustSayin

       The explanation is mathematical, not moral. There are no teachings against abortion or birth control in the Bible. This is as close as it gets:

      “And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so
      that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may
      demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide. “But if there is any further injury, then you shall
      appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,…” (Exodus 21:22-24)Hardly an admonition, more like a business contract. Like when murdering slaves is just good business.

    • Yar

      “ probably the largest civil rights violation in world history.”
      I expect the “institutional” Church has already earned of that distinction.  Acts done in the name of religion anyway.  Ed, are you a think rational being or are you just a web-bot?  You never seem to engage in discussion, you only make these partisan statements.  What is your world view? Do you have have ability to live and interact with people who have different views? For example, what is your take on interracial marriage? 

      • nj_v2

        Really, you care about other of Ed’s views? You may be the only one.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          I keep hoping he will discuss the CRIMES and SINS of the Catholic church, which keeps coming up with distractions, as Ed does!

    • Don_B1

      Just where did Secretary Clinton say or do anything that “supports the one child policy”? While China does have an over-population problem, recognizing that does not mean that one supports ANY means to correct it. The one that China has chosen is probably the one giving the quickest results, but obviously at large costs, mostly to individuals and, as young men cannot find wives, costs to society in general.

      Just because Secretary Clinton does not make a speech against the policy does not mean that it or some of its caustic effects do not come up in private discussions with Chinese leaders.

  • Yar

    In the News this week, is the innocent fact that non-white babies make up more than half of US births.  My question is, how does this figure in a political campaign that ‘isn’t about race’, ‘isn’t about religion’, isn’t about class’, but where half of the country thinks we are headed in the wrong direction?   
    Sunday morning is the most segregated hour of the week, mostly because so many people stay home, but also in church.  This election has race as its primary flame of hate; hate based on fear; fear by whites that non-whites will treat whites the way whites have treated nonwhites for generations.  Fear of judgment and justice, I suppose.  On whose sweat did you make your millions?  The scar of slavery is still affecting American politics.  When asking about being on the wrong track, has anybody done a survey on the expected outcome of our current track?  The track of polarization is what is driving the race toward revolution, Europe and the US are hell bent on destroying what has been built over the past 100 years if they/we can’t have it exclusively for them/ourselves.  It all goes back to the concept of Jubilee,  I believe it is an economic concept used to prevent cyclic revolutions, others believe it is an outdated religious principle.  Maybe we can have that discussion next hour in Church and State.

  • Terry Tree Tree

    I WISH that wealthy Republican HAD spent those $Millions, to try to discredit President Obama, with Reverend Wright! 
       WASTING money, instead or CREATING JOBS they promised, is the Republican way?
       EVERYONE that got over $20,000 per year in tax-breaks, in ANY way, PROVE that you have CREATED A JOB, for each $20,000!   IRS CHECK EACH CLAIM!

  • Terry Tree Tree

    Newt is in $4.3 Million in campaign debt?  Almost his Tiffany’s debt?
       WOW!  As a ‘historian’, that introduces rich and influential people to legislators, Newt will have to work for THREE years to pay that off?
       IS THAT the definition of ‘historian’?
       HOW MANY other ‘historians’ are paid $1.6 MILLION per year?

    • Azra

      Nice work, if you can get it.

    • J__o__h__n

      I hope wife number four has less expensive tastes. 

      • TFRX

        When Wife #4 sees how #3 got a series of Little Tiffany Blue Boxes in lieu of real apologies, who would settle for less than that?

  • Terry Tree Tree

    AMAZING!!  ‘celibate’ priest Thomas Williams ‘fathered’ a child?
        SEVEN other priests are being investigated for child abuse?
        Catholic clergy are upset that Nuns are doing humanitarian work?

    • Azra

      Let’s not jump to conclusions about Daddy Williams. Remember the Virgin Mary?

      • Terry Tree Tree

        LOTS of ‘Immaculate Conceptions’? 
           Dilutes the uniqueness of Jesus, doesn’t it?
           We couldn’t require God to do a paternity test back then.   Williams, we CAN.  Along with every other priest?

        • Azra

          Why not?

        • IlikeMe

          It must only be the male genitalia that god hates, since Jesus was born out of female genitalia, but wouldn’t allow any penis to be involved.

  • Terry Tree Tree

    Drug companies are moving LOTS of addictive drugs through a FEW clinics?  THEY didn’t report this anomaly to DEA?
       Drug company executives are INCOMPETENT, or CRIMINALS?

  • Terry Tree Tree

    FIND OUT who backs political ads!!  Federal Election Commission HAS NOT BEEN ENFORCING the law for TEN YEARS?
       ‘Conservative’ groups object to them obeying the LAW?

  • Terry Tree Tree

    MILLIONAIRE MITT ROMNEY, ‘conservative’, ‘Christian’, says that he will ELIMINATE protection for poor workers, (such as provided by a union), which will allow MILLIONAIRE and BILLIONAIRE employers to ABUSE employees that make a LOT less?  ‘Conservative of WHAT?  Abuse?

    • Azra

      He’s power-crazed. It’s that bully thing.

      • denis

        I must say, Azara, you do make it intertaining.  You cover more positions than even Mitt does.

        [mean this as a compliment]

        • Azra

          Thank you.

  • Hidan
    • OpenforBusiness

      I guess we’ll just ignore his denial of the whole thing; like when Obama denies being a socialist Muslim that favors baby-killing.

      • Oi8jl4y

        RMSK

    • J__o__h__n

      He is a disgrace and should never be allowed back on US soil.  Thanks for coming to the land of opportunity, going to one of the best universities, making a ridiculous fortune, and then leaving to avoid giving back. 

      • Azra

        Must be Republican.

        • TFRX

          Now, let’s not say Republican.

          So many tech types think they got there all by themselves and they don’t owe anybody anything.

          I don’t want to say “Libertarians are overrepresented in tech fields”, but…

          • Azra

            It was the selfish, greedy, money-hungry thing that automatically made me think “Republican”; a knee-jerk reaction.

        • Roinshgiohj

          RMSK

    • Terry Tree Tree

      He later said he will pay applicable taxes, first.

  • Terry Tree Tree

    The MONEY, the MATERIAL,  the LAND, for the Keystone Pipeline, would employ MORE people, faster, installing Solar Collectors, and Wind-Turbines, that can produce FREE energy, that doesn’t pollute, in comparision, AS SOON AS THEY ARE INSTALLED!
        HOW can terrorists interfere with HOME-MADE electricity, compared to imported oil, and pipelines?
      

  • Gregg

    The second Catholic University has announced they will no longer provide health insurance. Nice work Obama.

    • Hidan

       How Christian of them.

      • Gregg

         Their hand was forced. Nice work Obama.

        • Ride8575

          BS. If I can be forced to pay for war, they can be forced to pay for insurance and stay the hell out of their employees’ private lives and medical decisions.

        • Don_B1

          They CHOSE the play; before this political play, the Catholic Church had agreed to state requirements quite similar in at least six states.

          This decision is by a group of bishops that are real conservative and not reflective of even all the Church leadership, as evidenced by the statements of another group for the Church to point out that Rep. Paul Ryan’s budget does not reflect Church values.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Conservative of WHAT?

          • Don_B1

            Pre-Vatican II church dogma and perquisites.

    • DemocratPartyBlows

      Thankfully, the government will pay for their abortions.

      • ana

        Could you please enlarge on that rather blase  statement?   

      • Don_B1

        The PPACA has no changes in abortion funding from what has been the law for years.

        It does require contraceptive coverage, which also has applicability in a lot of other medical conditions beyond preventing conception.

        But note that a study has shown that 100,000 women die as a result of unwanted pregnancies which go wrong. With adequate contraception, many or certainly most of those could be avoided.

        And there will be more abortions if contraception is not available.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Deaths of mothers, and pregnant women, and the lives of children, after birth, don’t MATTER to the ‘Pro-life’ set?
             That’s why they fight to protect a fetus, but CUT JOBS, WELFARE, WIC, HEALTHCARE, and anything else required for a quality of life! 

      • ModavationsBlows

        RMSK

  • Terry Tree Tree

    Methanol and ethanol, less-polluting substitutes for gasoline, and less-polluting substitutes for diesel, can be made from our GARBAGE, plants, TRASH, and coal, and other materials, yet ‘conservatives’ want to drill and import more OIL?

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Weren’t you telling me what a terrible idea it was to use such substitutes when I was suggesting that very idea?

      • Terry Tree Tree

        In relation to NOT using more Solar and Wind, probably.   I have encouraged using renewables, since I joined this forum, and LONG before. 
           I have reservations about using coal to make methanol, but not the bio-fuels.
           Learning is a part of my life, and I am not averse to sensible change.
           The views of my early years have been modified, and some completely changed, by learning more about the subject.

  • Heidi Fox

        Thank you for moderating Thursday night’s public forum “Pushing
    Back on Money Politics, 2012” (May 17, 2012). 
    I spoke to you briefly after the event.

        Simple question:  why
    do campaigns cost as much as they do? 
    Ms. Marziani addressed it in her closing remarks when she said that
    social media has changed the way we communicate, the Congresswoman from Concord
    questioned the use of the airways for this public purpose, and Senate candidate
    Marisa DeFranco lives it as she tries to campaign on a shoestring budget.
         While I disagree with the Tea Party’s politics, I admire its
    ability to mobilize within the political system. It is effective, and the use
    of multi-million dollar ad buys is effective, because the message of fear and
    anger plays well in a 30-second sound bite.  

    The rest of us are not content with the superficiality of
    those ad buys and prefer to listen to your show, or attend a forum where
    intelligent discussion doesn’t always conclude with one answer. 
        Despite the title of your NPR show, staying “On Point”
    requires more than 30 seconds. 

        In this era of claims of fiscal irresponsibility, how can we
    reframe the use of massive amounts of money as an irresponsible use of funds,
    when in fact it is so effective for all the wrong reasons?

  • http://www.facebook.com/don.klos1 Don Klos

    The Romney campaign denounced a $10 million ad that highlighted President Obama’s relationship with Rev. Jeremiah Wright…did they realize the ad would be “voter education,” belying the belief that Obama is a muslim?

    • MrNutso

      Actually not the Romney campaign, but a super pac, and shockingly Romney denounced the whole idea.

      • Azra

        Another lame publicity stunt.

        • DemocratPartyBlows

          Like Obama’s presidency.

          • ModavationsBlows

            RMSK

      • TFRX

        When Romney’s allies are doing the dirty work, it’s no wonder he can stand back and seem “honorable”.

        If only Romney had the stones to tell people to their face the President shouldn’t be tried for treason.

    • DemocratPartyBlows

      He only went to the church for political purposes. He practices his muslim faith at home.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        YOU have witnessed him praying to Mecca five times a day?  OR you’re spouting nonsense?

      • Ehagoi

        RMSK

    • JustSayin

      Living in a glass house… Don’t throw stones.

    • Azra

      How many extremists would still believe it? That one died years ago, with the birthers’ myth, and all the rest.

  • Jack Marshak

    Obama’s team tried to BRIBE his pastor, Jeremiah Wright to keep quiet

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/the_bribe_to_silence_wright_io9jneobl3fUF0cb7LpcNM

    Barack Obama, have you no shame sir?

    • Gregg

      No, he has no shame.

      • jefe68

        and you do?

        • Piojnmhase

          RMSK

      • Kljhay

        RMSK

    • DemocratPartyBlows

      The guy is a real piece of merde.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Murdoch, the phone-hacker, or GROSSLY INCOMPETENT ‘businessman’?
            Either the Murdochs are criminal, or so incompetent, they aren’t qualified to run a news kiosk?

      • Kjytra

        RMSK

    • jefe68

      It is interesting to note the Post, which is run by Murdoch,
      contradicted itself from the lead and the copy.
      In the article it said a friend of Obama’s offered the Reverend Wright money not a member of his campaign team. It also did not mention anything about then Senator Obama offering him anything. The only thing one takes away from this article is that politics is a dirty busniess and that Obama was right about how the media scewered the Reverend Wright.

       

    • JaniceCumly

      The NY post?  Ahhh Ha Ha Ha ha ROTFL
      ROTFFLMAO

  • denis

    Speaking in Iowa this week we heard Mr. Romney speak of the debt and our moral obligation to not leave this debt to our children and grandchildren requiring us to cut programs to reduce the debt.  This is not a new topic. We hear many on both sides of the isle saying the same thing.
    My questions are:   when are we going to face up to the moral responsibility to our children and grandchildren to assure a continuing quality education system?  When are we going to face our moral obligation to assure our children and grandchildren inherit a sound infrastructure necessary for a “quality life.”   When are we going to face our moral obligation to assure we have a government that works to resolve issues for the common good not a select few?  And when are going to face our moral obligation, as our ancestors did, to sacrifice a little to pay for the future of our children and grandchildren?

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Romney’s company, Bain, left a LOT of debt to the children of the people who’s JOBS he destroyed, or Bain destroyed! 
         THOSE children don’t matter, because Romney and Bain got richer?

    • Don_B1

      The graduating students that cannot get a job worthy of their skills will suffer a loss in cumulative earnings for the remainder of their lives. That is how we are lifting debt off their shoulders?

      By not reducing the emissions of CO2, we are saddling them with higher costs of insurance and living than otherwise would be required to pay for the repair of infrastructure damaged in storms and higher food costs because of poorer growing conditions.

      How many I-35 bridges have to fail for KNOWN deficiencies causing how many deaths before a transportation infrastructure bill passes; or will it just be a period with a non-Democratic Party president?

  • J__o__h__n

    I’m glad the media didn’t fall for Romney’s rich friend’s ploy to get Rev Wright back in the news by giving Romney the opportunity to condemn his bringing up Rev Wright. 

    • DemocratPartyBlows

      Except Rev. Wright is in the news!  LMFAO

      • Azra

        Why?

  • jefe68

    Must be troll Friday this week.
     

    • DemocratPartyBlows

      ExPlains wHy you’Re here!

      • jefe68

        Ah yes, we have one with a the mental age of 10.
        Which explains your name. Don’t try to hard, you might end up hurting yourself.

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

           Since when is this site for leftists only?

          • Brothersower88

            I am not sure that leftist would like being associated with the attackers responding to (DemocratPartyBlows) in this post.

            It looks like these people are just overly sensitive and lack a moderate amount of discernment and temper this morning.

            I would hope that generally they are above responding with offense to offense.

          • jefe68

            Kind of patronizing are we now.

            If people make dumb comments and do so a lot sometimes they need to be called out.
            That you would defend someone who posts using DemocratPartyBlows as a moniker is very telling.
            Would you defend all extremist?

          • Brothersower88

            I would suggest ignoring obvious trolling from someone who doesn’t appear to seek growth.

            Giving someone what they want (attention in this case), only fuels their ego. “Calling them out” does nothing for them, but it can degrade one’s own voice.

            “Would you defend all extremist?”
            The US Constitution does (with minor limits in very narrow circumstances).

          • jefe68

            You’re good.
            But I’m not talking about the Constitution or free speech in that context.
            I’m talking about my response to extremism and yours.

            I think sometimes one has to stand up to the bullies.
            How can anyone with a moniker such as DemocratPartyBlows, which really smacks of some kind of frat boy mindset, be taken seriously.

            You are right about ignoring them.

          • nj_v2

            : : : rant on : : :

            Okay, that’s twice now: “…all extremist…” and, previously, “…leftist would like….”

            This appears to be some sort of English-usage virus that has infected about half the population: failure to add an s to pluralize words that end in ist

            What’s up with that?

            : : :  rant off  : : :

          • Azra

            . . . or to add “ic” to a certain word ending in “at”.

          • Brothersower88

            I actually don’t appreciate what he/she is saying, but he/she does not appear to be in a place of learning so much as spewing poison – not worth my or anyone outside of his/her community’s time to correct.

            Some of the people responding to him/her, do appear to be learning individuals, hence I am not trying to defend him/her so much as help those antagonized by him/her preserve their voice.

          • jefe68

            Did I say that? No. Try to use nuance.

          • Don_B1

            It isn’t! But it would be nice if the comments were kept relevant to the subject and obvious falsehoods were not continually repeated as if they were new information.

            Snark usually does not inform not to mention win an argument. It is just a way to divert the argument to a non-productive path — which makes the definition of the perpetrator as being a troll.

        • Brothersower88

          If you are offended by someone, why would you offend them back?

          You lose more lowering yourself than the victim losses by your attack.
           

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            Fight fire with fire–I’ll take that phrase as referring to the battlefield, not a burning building.

          • Brothersower88

            It actually originated in brush/forest/field fires (or so I have heard). 

            You would set a little fire to consume the tinder before the big fire got there.

            Extinguishing the little fire is easier than the big, and the big fire will put itself out.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

             But the idea remains–violence is sometimes the answer to violence.

          • Brothersower88

            “If” violence must be used, shouldn’t it be a last resort, not a knee jerk reaction?

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            It depends on the circumstances.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Self-Defense?  War, when attacked?

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            Yes.

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            Yes, if we wish to all end up blind. An eye for an eye was never a prescription for retaliation, but a requirement for proportionate justice.

          • jefe68

            I’m not offended, amused, but not offended. 

          • Brothersower88

             You accused someone of the mental skills of a 10-year-old, and then patronize them.

            Not sure you can claim that there was no negative emotion (offense) that would cause you to attack someone else.

          • jefe68

            Yeah I did, and for good reason.

            I’m kind of done here.
            If you want to defend extremist and people who parse issues with the mentality of middle school children playing politics in the school yard, go right ahead.

          • nj_v2

            There it is again: “If you want to defend extremist…”

            What’s going on?

      • Chris B

        Do your mother and daughters know you use that screen name?  I’d like to think this site had a bit more class.

        • Azra

          His mother would be appaled by his grammar . . . or maybe not.

          • Chris B

            Not, I would think, as it’s pretty unlikely she can read.

          • Brothersower88

            @Chris B & Azra:
            If you are offended by someone, why would you offend them back?

            You lose more lowering yourself than the victim losses by your attack.

          • Azra

            It was a moment of weakness. Will try harder.

          • Yyyyrelkjh

            RMSK

          • Kedfff

            RMSK

        • Keifll

          RMSK

      • Terry Tree Tree

        You blow ALL the Democrat party?  You’re VERY busy?

        • Hhhhhh

          RMSK

      • Eijlg

        RMSK

  • Kevin

    Tom, ask your guests if the problems in Europe–especially Greece–indicate any sort of problem with the longterm viability of cradle-to-grave welfare/nanny states that produce nothing of value, have anti-business climates, and can’t possibly meet all the pension promises they’ve made to the numerous unions who call the shots.

    Then ask why anybody ever thought that type of government would last in the first place. Banana Republics don’t just exist in South and Central America, apparently.

  • Jack Marshak

    JFK’s daughter Caroline, calls Obama a ‘liar’.

    http://www.infowars.com/jfks-daughter-calls-obama-a-liar/

    Despite endorsing Obama in 2008, JFK’s daughter Caroline now considers Obama a “liar” according to a family source in Edward Klein’s new book on Obama called “The Amateur”.

    • DemocratPartyBlows

      Amatuer is right, and we all pay the price!

    • Guest

      Have you even read the completely ridiculous content you linked to?

      Whether or not Caroline called him a liar at a private family gathering, and whether or not other Kennedys flipped tables and crushed champagne flutes is just Rove-ian distraction/disinformation.

      I’ll call Obama a liar: He lied about closing Guantanamo.  He lied about a public option.  Guess what?  I’m still voting for him.

    • Adks12020

      I don’t know if anyong but you cares what Caroline Kennedy thinks.  Voters in the State of New York surely didn’t care about what she has to say for very long when she tried to get appointed to Hillary Clinton’s senate seat but refused to release financial and personal information.

      • Azra

        Just like Romney, huh? Still, he thinks he has a chance . . . talk about being delusional!

  • Markus

    Could anything be more predictable than what’s happening in europe? They live beyond their means and pay for it with debt and bail-outs by the Germans. So, the Germans decide they don’t want to support the less industrious, and the Greeks, Spanish and French get angry over the loss of the gravy train. They vote governments in (or will) who will promise them more goodies, but not have a chance at paying for it. Essentially, the non-producers are trying to vote themselves the money, but the producers aren’t going for it much longer.

    How similar is it to the US, except we can print more money and have a central bank that can sell China and others our debt.

    Personally, I think all these other issues we discuss may be important, but insignificant when compared to the 16 Trillion national debt. It and the stupid wars are what I’m voting on in Nov.

    • Guest

      You will be pleased to know that since Obama took office the deficit is smaller, taxes are lower, and the federal government has shrunk.

      Imagine how much more progress we could make on the national debt if the republicans decided to cooperate with the president and democrats instead of being the party of NO with a singleminded obsession to unseat the president.

      • Brothersower88

        “…since Obama took office the deficit is smaller, taxes are lower, and the federal government has shrunk.”

        Not that I am disagreeing, but can you site your sources on this, or is it opinion?

        • Guest

          Glad you asked.

          http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/05/15/484767/obama-budget-chart/

          I know the naysayers will scream ‘But that’s a LIBERAL site!’ The charts at link are based on CBO data. 

          • Brothersower88

             Thank you sir/madam!

        • Azra

          All information may be found at Polifact, Factcheck, or a number of other reputable sources.

          If you’re employed, you will know for yourself how many tax cuts we have all had since 2009, and won’t need to check that fact. If you’re not, by all means, educate yourself.

          • Brothersower88

            Oh those glorious college years.  I don’t have a good baseline to compare paychecks between any presidents.

  • Guest

    Candidate Romney has pledged to roll back Dodd-Frank reforms while taking campaign money from (and building a consulting company with) known Ponzi fraudsters who made millions in selling phony CDs. Please ask your guests why the media has not discussed this at all.

    http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/11/01/316040/romney-solamere-ponzi/

  • Ellen Dibble

    As to the PAC ads, there are excellent tools for evaluating them at Moyers and Company’s site.  Kathleen Hall Jamieson was on that show last week, and transcripts are at the site.  And there is a whole panel of links to sites that line things up for you.  For myself, I see Carl Rove as setting the terms both for the money and the art of persuasion circa 2000, and the Democrats seem to have no choice but to respond in kind, especially thanks to Citizens United and the Roberts court, which deals in what seems to me the art of the invidious.  What’s that?  Rousing ill will, derived from the root “envy.”  Madison Avenue has our emotions well trained in that.  
    http://billmoyers.com/episode/full-show-fair-play-on-tv-and-taxes/

  • Ellen Dibble
  • Ellen Dibble

    See “Tools” in the upper right corner of the opening frame on this link for ways to view this year’s ads.  
    http://billmoyers.com/topics/money-politics/

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Europe at present is like the “United” States during the period of the Articles of Confederation.  The Confederate States of America also had the problems that Europe is going through.  The Union either has to become more unified or less.  Status quo won’t work.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      More Unified Union!  ALL workers’ unions, too!  BILLIONAIRES have enough protection!  WHY NOT workers?

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        1.  Lay off the caps lock key.

        2.  I was referring to the European Union, not workers’ unions.  That should have been obvious to you.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Why?

          • JamIy

            Of all the people who continuously contradict each other; you two are the cutest.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    California’s problems are mandated services and forbidden taxes.  The first step to getting the state in order is to repeal the ballot initiative.

    • MrNutso

      Prop 13 was the early version of Grover’s tax no tax pledge.

  • David

    I’m so glad that you did not lead with the Facebook stuff.  It was on your show, Tom, within the last year that I heard it stated that 80% of the activity of the stock market involves just 20% of the public.  I don’t own any stock, have a mutual fund, etc… and I could care less about Facebook “going public.”  Yes, it’s news, but mention it and move on.

  • MrNutso

    Ugh.  Facebook is fake money.  There’s no there there.

  • Jack Marshak

    Articles of impeachment against President Obama are gaining momentum, House Resolution 107 (HR107).

    The impeachment of a U.S. President is always news worthy and is deserving of attention.

    The authority of any U.S President is granted by the U.S. Constitution, not the United Nations, as President Obama asserted when he launched his C.I.A. led war in Libya without Congressional approval.

    • J__o__h__n

      This tactic worked so well the last time for the Republicans. 

      • Azra

        . . . except the Republicans lied to us, and fooled many, so they could invade Iraq.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      WHERE are your legal charges against ‘W’, AND ALL his admin.?  FAR more egregious charges blatantly obvious THERE?

    • Guest

      Yeah it’s newsworthy and deserving of attention … except when it’s a just diversionary tactic by political opponents who know their own candidate can’t stand on his own record or ideas. (Plus he has broken hair.)

      Don’t forget to try a debt standoff and shutting down the government.  What else have you got?

    • Azra

      Oh, brother!

  • BHA in Vermont

    “People don’t like Facebook but they can’t stop using it”?

    Never started, never seen a need. Don’t see a need now.

    • DemocratPartyBlows

      Thanks for coming out of your cave to enlighten us.  You can go back in now.

      • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

        Your statement is made even more absurd than it is on its face by the fact that one of the key creators of the internet has never seen a need for such trivial social media interaction, even though he is as tech savvy at 70 something as anyone alive.

        I’m 60, was programming mainframe computers with punchcards when I was a high school junior in 1968, used remote consoles for data analysis in the 70s, taught my son to program computers in the 90s, and have relied on the WWW for 13 years, but I’ve never felt a need to waste my time on social media or to accept the illusion of community that it creates.

        Nor have I been inclined to give my personal demographics to a private corporation for their own exploitation and profit, or to make Mark Zuckerberg a billionaire.

      • Ejhbgju

        RMSK

    • Azra

      You’re not alone. Life’s too short.

  • Ellen Dibble

    Ads on Facebook.  Just yesterday, Fb quit sending me ads about how to change the wrinkles in my face with a set of dentures!!!  Or how about this guy or that guy as a prospective mate.  Now they are offering me a Ford Fusion — I thought the car people were backing out of Facebook. AND they’re offering me a quick search tool for accessing legal cases and transcripts across the planet.  Oh, I am TEMPTED!  I am TEMPTED!

    • J__o__h__n

      It isn’t targeted well.  They sent blasphemous me an ad for Jerry Falwell’s Liberty [sic] University [sic]. 

      • Ellen Dibble

        J__o__h__n, the targeting has me wondering.  I have noticed a frequent visitor, right from the start, who is a guy with what looks like he sports an alias job and Facebook presence, maintaining a fictitious online magazine (about sex or sports or something I would not consider a common interest), and he is a “friend” of a friend who has a gazillion “friends,” hence linking all his “friends” far and wide, including apparently such a stranger.  That one is a politician, the mutual person.  
        So I’m thinking the only reason for the stranger lurking at my site would be to try to determine my interests, and apparently that is a very low-pay job, and someone a third my age might not be too good at it.

      • TFRX

        Maybe they’ve figured you’re a “persuadable”.

        Of course, you can click on it and further mess with their algorithm…

  • Adks12020

    Facebook is not an investment I would make.  It’s totally overrated and a fad.  There isn’t a solid business plan.  Going public is going to increase scrutiny regarding privacy issues.  The only way they make money is by taking personal information from their users and selling it to advertisers.  That’s going to be a conflict I don’t see a resolution to.

    • DemocratPartyBlows

      900 million people fad

  • Greyman

    Gee, I learned to stop using Facebook, just as I learned to stop watching television. “Monetization of socialization” no doubt will catch up one day with the “mammonization of time”, but without my participation, thank you. 

    • StenceZb

      Hmmm, I have held your opinion all along, however the masses seem to have decided that Facebook is the social venue of choice — the only one — judging by its domination.
      I have never used it just because of your qualms, however I recently have begun to reconsider just out of the financial benefit it could provide for several affairs I am involved in.

      You do realize that monetization of socialization takes place right here?

      • Greyman

        Accomplished monetization of socialization helps give this site this place its structure, yes, and so, at least that directly and at least that remotely, we participate in it. But perhaps possibly maybe remarking upon or naming or alluding to some such phenomenon as ”monetization of socialization” (whatever explanatory power this notion holds) can occur which does not formally contribute distinctly to the (further) monetization either of acts and deeds of socialization or of the social medium itself, could we say? Here, the medium of expression has been monetized, but the socialization that erupts does not seem driven by monetizing forces, not obviously or necessarily.

  • Terry Tree Tree

    ‘Austerity’, and pay cuts, that doesn’t start at the TOP, in multiples of what is DEMANDED of the lowest paid, is FRAUD!!
       ANY CEO, that isn’t the business owner, that guides a company into LOSS, should LOSE more than those that did NOT make those important decisions!

  • Michiganjf

    Tom,

       When referring to Romney’s “speech,” you said, “Boy, the fact-checkers were all over that!”

    Why not be more precise and call Romney a lying sack of S#!%?

    Why is everyone so scared of being accurate?

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Ever heard of the seven dirty words?

      • Terry Tree Tree

        George Carlin was accurate about them, AND religion?

    • TFRX

      It’s telling that “the fact-checkers were all over that” is an improvement for truth-telling on public radio. Any step away from OnTheOneHandOnTheOtherism is notable.I
      have stopped counting the number of times I will hear something is
      “controversial” (which can mean (rather than “absolutely false” or “Fox News is crapping their pants about…”) or deploy the “green
      cheese gambit” (“Dems say the moon is made of rocks, Republicans say
      it’s made of green cheese, opinions differ”.)

      • Azra

        For “controversial”, see “pants on fire”. However, Tom, much like President Obama, is caught between a rock and hard place. There is always someone eager to pounce on every word, inflection, even things not said, but only imagined by the attackers. President Obama and Tom Ashbrook have probably both felt, at times, that theirs are thankless jobs.

  • Terry Tree Tree

    GREEDY RICH, that don’t want to pay taxes, should move their citizenship, and families to Greece!  THAT is the biggest problem Greece has!  NOT paying taxes, and corruption, have Greece in a financial mess.

  • Erin in Iowa

    We can’t talk about Romney as a governor.  We can’t talk about Romney as a businessman.  We can’t talk about his religion or his family or his character.  I’m sorry but “shut up and vote for me” isn’t going to work.

    • DemocratPartyBlows

      Worked for Obama.  Any criticism was labeled as racism!

    • Azra

      . . . AND WHATEVER YOU DO, DON’T BRING UP HIS TAXES!! It makes him very angry.

      That’s typical Tea Party behavior. They don’t want voters to know anything about them. Remember When Palin, Bachmann, and the rest, were hidden away before the election? Like Romney, they refused to be interviewed, or even go on programs like “The View”! Why would anyone vote for them, if they don’t even know them? (Can’t imagine why they weren’telected.)

    • Azra


      We also can’t mention his dog, his record on job creation in Massachusetts, or Mitt’s stint as a barber.

  • Matt Wade

    Romney doesn’t want the Reverend Wright attack ads to go forward because that will create a discussion about religion and his Mormonism, which is not a winning argument for Romney. Obama’s church is much more mainstream than Romney’s.

    • DemocratPartyBlows

      Muslim is mainstream, except if you’re the killing kind.

      • Matt Wade

        Obama is about as Muslim as the Rombot 2.0 is. But keep pushing that GOP lie up the hill, it’s a worthwhile Sisyphean effort!

        • Azra

          It’s all they’ve got. Romney has a snowball’s chance in hell, so, in desperation, they recycle whatever they can, in hopes that somebody will forget that those things had all been discussed ad nausem in 2008.

      • Junebug

        RMSK

  • TFRX

    Debt ceiling?

    Remember, the last time around it was a crisis!!1!!one! just because a black Democrat was elected to the Presidency. And the mainstream press had no interest in that fact, and barely bothered to interview any economists on it.

  • Locke

    How is it character assassination to challenge Romney own claim that he is a job creator? Romney has touted his business “qualifications” over Obama. It is fair game therefore to go after his “qualifications”  

    • Zero

      Just like it was fair game to examine Sarah Palin’s home life after she said her qualifications for Vice President was being a mother.

  • nj_v2

    Whew! Our salvation will soon be here! 

    Just in time to save us, the most recent Republican president, whose name none of the Republican candidates dared even mention, is going to put out a book outlining strategies for economic growth.

    http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/05/16/484981/bush-economic-book/

    Coming This Summer: For $24.95, George W. Bush Will Share His ‘Strategies For Economic Growth

    That Bush believes the country needs his thoughts on how to create economic growth is laughable. After all, under his watch, “growth in investment, GDP, and employment all posted their worst performance of any post-war expansion,” while “overall monthly job growth was the worst of any cycle since at least February 1945, and household income growth was negative for the first cycle since tracking began in 1967.” As the Economic Policy Institute found, “between the end of the 2001 recession (2001Q4) and the peak of that expansion (2007Q4), the U.S. economy experienced the worst economic expansion of the post-war era.”

    As this chart shows, the only economic indicator on which Bush exceeded the averageis corporate profits:

    • MrNutso

      Read the book and do the opposite.

      • bellavida

        Like Opposite George episode on Seinfeld…I love it.  

    • Terry Tree Tree

      It’s a way for corrupt ‘contractors’ to PAY him for their ‘NO-BID contracts’? 

    • Azra

      Did Dubta allegedly write it? Sounds like satire to me. Maybe Jon Stewart is the aurhor.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Will he have a ghost writer, and deny having a ghost writer, like Limbaugh lied?

  • Matt Wade

    Quote of the Day: From The Fact Checker (Glenn Kessler) of the Washington Post: “Romney’s remarks make little sense.”

    • Ellen Dibble

      If Mitt were running about 1980, his message would resonate, and in fact did resonate.  Nowadays, I’m hearing a “once upon a time” that is so off-fact that it isn’t worth arguing.  Apparently Glenn Kessler summed it up the same way.  Thanks for that.

      • Matt Wade

         In 1980 there was still a large American manufacturing sector for Romney and Bain to buy up with tax-supported debt and then sell overseas. He’s a real-life vampire.

        • Ellen Dibble

          Yep.  Instead of production of goods, we have production of profit.  ”Profit” is a paper tiger, capable of deflating into a pile of ash.  We have seen that.

        • Azra

          A very unpatriotic vampire. Guess his guilt makes him feel the need to say, (at every opportunity), “I love this country”, and to appear even more phoney and ridiculous, by singing “America the Beautiful”. Why would someone who really loved America have to keep telling us, and singing at us? He slipped up in his quest, though, by not wearing a flag pin; a mortal sin which Republicans can’t forgive. How could Mitt have overlooked “THE PIN”? Why hasn’t it been mentioned? Where’s the outrage?

  • Ellen Dibble

    It seems to me Boehner demonstrated last summer that as speaker of the House, no, he cannot deliver his party’s votes in a constructive way.  So why bring it up again, with the same bunch of Republicans?  Does he think he has them whipped into place as controllable votes this summer?  Is he looking forward to showing off his new-found authority with his minions?  Or is he just getting this pesky issue out of the way, stating Republican opposition to debt (except for corporate give-aways) and moving on?

  • David Geschwind

    Doesn’t the fact that the Ending Spending Action Fund decided not to run the ads after the public disapproval of the Romney campaign count as coordination?

  • Terry Tree Tree

    JP Morgan LOSSES growing?  Announced AFTER JP Morgan election of officers?  Surprised?
       Jamie Diamon, and ALL officers that made these BAD ‘hedge’ decisions, should PAY the losses to those that entrusted their money with JPM!

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Tom Ashbrook, disco?  Really?  Bleck.

  • Terry Tree Tree

    ANYONE that can ignore the talent of the late Donna Summer, amazes me!  RIP, Lady.   THANKS for ALL the delight you brought us!

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Be amazed.  Be very amazed.

  • Ellen Dibble

    Trayvon:  Zimmerman had two black eyes, demonstrably injured head, and something else.  Trayvon on marijuana.  Well, who screened this “evidence”?  This is what rules of evidence and voir diring of jurors and courtroom rules of order are all about.  Still, let’s not jump to conclusions.

    • Azra

      He didn’t have black eyes at all – EVER! Swollen eyes would have been impossible to hide, if his nose had been broken. He did have a scratch on his nose, but no bloody clothing. How could his nose have been broken, without a lot of blood gushing from it? How could he have been badly hurt, and in pain, if he didn’t even go to the ER? Later on, he had some doctor write a note for him. No stitches were neccesary, anywhere.

      Furthermore, even if Zimmerman had been beaten half to death, it wouldn’t matter. HE was the agressor. After he was told not to follow Trayvon, and to get back into his car to wait for police, (as he was told,) he said that he was “CHASING” Trayvon! He certainly asked for any injuries he received, because he wasn’t supposed to be there at all, harassing children. What would he expect? In Trayvon’s position, what would Zimmerman have done?

      Zimmerman was hellbent on murdering Trayvon. He had to make sure that this one WOULDN’T “get away”.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        I broke my nose while hauling hay.  It had slight visible injuries, NO excessive bleeding, hardly any bleeding.  Two surgeries on it later, my nose still doesn’t work as well as before the break, over 40 years ago.

        • Azra

          My own nose has been broken, and after the accident, it seemed like the bleeding would never stop. Also had black eyes, nearly swollen shut. Bruising was visible for months. Maybe your nose wasn’t hit as forcefully. Mine looks and seems to be back to normal, but it has caused inner ear fluid buildup, preventing air travel. Given the choice, I’d rather not fly, (didn’t like it anyway), than have grommets put in the eardrums before every flight.

  • nj_v2

    Lying-sack-of-crap alert.

    Romney’s prairie fire not so hot…

    http://news.yahoo.com/fact-check-romney-oversimplifies-debt-inferno-210641653.html;_ylt=A2KJ3CfCxbNPDAQAZsXQtDMD

    FACT CHECK: Romney oversimplifies debt ‘inferno’

    One of many:

    ROMNEY: “America counted on President Obama to rescue the economy, tame the deficit and help create jobs. Instead, he bailed out the public sector, gave billions of your dollars to the companies of his friends, and added almost as much debt as all the prior presidents combined.”THE FACTS. Hardly. Presidents from George Washington through George W. Bush ran the national debt up to $10.62 trillion, the amount it was on the day Obama took office. Today, it is $15.67 trillion, according to the Treasury Department’s Bureau of Public Debt. So it has gone up by $5.05 trillion under Obama. That’s roughly half of the amount amassed by all the other presidents combined.In short, the debt has gone up by about half under Obama. Under Ronald Reagan, it tripled.

    • Michiganjf

      Actually, if Obama never existed and the yearly deficit remained right where Bush left it at 1.4 trillion/year, 4.2 trillion would have been added to the debt anyway!!!

      … so Obama only ADDED 1.3 trillion to the debt, despite the worst revenues per capita in decades, and despite doing everything he can (considering gridlock) to fight recession and unemployment!!

      Amazing!!

      NO ONE would have done better than Obama, and ESPECIALLY not a moronic Republican!!

    • Azra

      His PANTS ON FIRE, still going strong.

    • Fredlinskip

      I know math ain’t a GOP strong subject, but wasn’t W responsible for adding more debt than all previous admins combined?

        …AND he managed that during a booming bubble economy when one would think we would be paying down the debt-

         THAT’S QUITE AN ACCOMPLISHMENT!

  • MrNutso

    Boehner:  A vote for Obama is a vote for 4 more years of no.

    Oops, Jack beat me to it.

  • Ride8575

    Great comment from caller, Carl. There is something essentially sinister and evil behind the motivations of the GOP.

    • MrNutso

      Same goes for voter ID.  Not a problem anytime until Obama was elected.

      • Worried for the country(MA)

         Wrong.  Voter ID has been a problem long before Obama was  in office.

        • TFRX

          Who to believe, you and James “That last guy was actually a citizen” O’Keefe? Or the Brennan center.

          You’re flogging crap which speaks poorly of your media consumption habits.

          Your politeness isn’t fooling anyone. If you think my remark is personal, too bad.

        • Azra

          It’s not a problem now.

          • Azra

            SORRY, ELLEN. This was supposed to be with the wicked-fleeing-for-no-reason comment. Don’t know how it ended up here.

          • Azra

            This thing has gone berserk. Just typed above apology to Ellen, below, and it has turned up here.

            My earlier posting showed up in two places simultaneously.

            POLTERGEISTS?

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Disqus Demons?

    • ana

      I have come to that conclsion also among a portion of the citizens.  I am in regular contact with Repubs whose open and  stated hatred for this POTUS is eating them up.
       I know that their nightly appoinment with fox news contributes.     Most are woefully propagnadized into “socialist” , anti military, anti business, anti-American, anti Christian labeling.
      I have come to feel sorry for them as their fears deepen without reason.

      • Drew (GA)

        “I have come to feel sorry for them as their fears deepen without reason.”

        Your sympathy is undeserved. As for their fears deepening without reason:

        Proverbs 28:1 The wicked flee when no man pursues.

        • Azra

          After they stock up on guns and bullets.

  • Ellen Dibble

    I heard that Obama is meeting with the leaders of the European nations today and this weekend at Camp David.  What do you suppose is being said?

    • DemocratPartyBlows

      This Chateau d’Issan Margaux is to die for!

      • ItWasMe

        Hey finally someone besides yourself liked one of your comments. 

        • Azra

          It was so unexpected. Wit? (Probably copied from a cartoon or something.)

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

     The northern European countries have a good social system, but they pay for it.  Greece wanted the goodies, but not the burden of paying the bill.

    • nj_v2

      The rich people here in the U.S. have a good social system, too. We all pay for it.

      • DemocratPartyBlows

        You must mean rich government workers cuz that’s all we all pay for, that and lackabouts

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Union Government employees get MILLIONS OF DOLLARS each, for making government FAIL?
             CEOs are the ones that I see doing that to companies frequently!
             WHICH government workers, SPECIFICALLY by name and job, gets $ MILLIONS, for failure?

        • Henny4

          RMSK

    • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

      Yes, and the reason they have done well is high taxes. The starvation of the American government, and hence the American economy, began under Reagan who reduced the tax bracket ratio from 6.36:1 to 1.87:1 in 1986, while today it’s a theoretical 2.64:1. When the income tax was first ratified under the 16th amendment, the ratio was 7:1, the most progressive it’s ever been, and less than 1% of Americans owed income tax – the 99% were free.

      The income tax was magically transformed from a “class tax” to a “mass tax” under the guise of a war emergency. The number of returns filed in 1939 was approximately 4 million, or 3% of the population. By 1945 the number of people required to file a tax return increased to almost 50 million – 36% of the American people. The income exemption and standard deduction were not raised until 1969.

      The definition of “income” in the 16th Amendment was economic gain beyond basic expenses, and the income threshold for taxation reflected this concept. Because of the massive currency inflation caused by World War II, somewhere around 1943–1944 the cost of living exceeded the statutory exemptions. Since then, the cost of living has far exceeded the statutory exemptions and standard deduction. In 1913 the minimum taxable income was three to six times the average salary. Today the statutory exemption and standard deduction is approximately one-tenth the average cost of living. As a result, today’s workers are enslaved both to their employers and to the government, and the Republicans are making sure that the average American gets nothing in return for his taxes.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    In other words, Greece is like California.

    • DemocratPartyBlows

      Exactly, people are fleeing these sinking ships.

      • Zero

        People are fleeing California…?  Care to look up the populations numbers and see if your statement is true or not…?

      • HotSalza

        I always admired a man who didn’t let reality stand in the way of his opinions.

  • Terry Tree Tree

    HYPOCRICY BY RACIAL PREJUCICE?  John Boehner, Mitch McConnel, and MANY others exhibit the WORST of PREJUCICE!  It would be GREAT if the paper-trail of their prejudice SURFACES, but NOT a ‘manufactured, twisted’ ‘expose’ of the O’Keefe-type trash!

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       You just can’t imagine that the Republicans disagree with his policies, but don’t care about his race.  It doesn’t fit your narrative.

      • TFRX

        Boehner, McConnell and Ryan aren’t racist, I imagine.

        But they need the racists riled up. That’s the base they need “energized” for election day.

        Whether it’s more ignoble to be the true believer or the enabler is not my problem.

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

          Why do you insist that people who oppose Obama are either racists or stirring up racists?  Could it be that they simply disagree with his policies?

          • ana

            There is something more going on.
            The shameless dysfunction, obstructionism, sheer disregard for the nation since this POTUS was elected is unprecedented.  the intentions of the Repubs is well documented. 

          • TFRX

            How many of those watermelon-eating or witch-doctor photos at Tea Party rallies do I have to post for you?

            That is the GOP base. That is their energy.

            The remainder of the GOP’s moderate voters can hold their convention in a Fotomat. And those moderates have absolutely no sway in the party’s leadership, because the right wing’s propaganda media doesn’t fellate them.

          • Zero

            Republicans politic with racist dog-whistles to a segment of racist Americans to get them to vote against their economic interests.  If racism didn’t exist, republicans wouldn’t be able to propagandize that democrats want to tax ‘hard working Americans’ and ‘hand out the money to lazy people.’  We all know what that language means. 

      • Terry Tree Tree

        With many of their words and actions, and the reversals on MANY positions?  NO, I can’t!  I’m not the only one that sees the HYPOCRICY?

      • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

        When the Republicans endorse debt limit increases 17 times under Reagan but are willing to bring down the economy and the faith and credit of America under Obama, there’s far more than simple policy difference at work.

        When the Republicans state that their primary goal is to prevent Obama from passing any of his proposals and are willing to shut down government in order to stimy the first Black president, who’s policies are those of a moderate Republican from the 1970s, then there is something far more than simple policy difference at work.

      • Yhe

        RMSK

  • walterwz

    The fact that the Republicans and Conservatives will not even consider ending the protracted wars, cutting all military spending and ending corporate welfare proves beyond all doubt that they are lying about the debt.

    If the threat that debt poses is so dire impose a 10% tax on gasoline. 

    There is a deeper problem however. Before we the American people consider honoring any such debt we should DEMAND that a very full accounting and audit of what this debt is, where this money was spent be made.  This will not happen because the debt crisis is pure fraud.

    This hyper debt is a product of our financial industry and the fictionalized economy.  It is time to eliminate the true source of the problem.

    • burroak

      Good ideas.

  • Jack Marshak

    U.S terror dones kill 11 in Souther Yemen

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/05/12/240912/us-terror-drones-kill-11-in-yemen/

    I wonder if President Obama is going to polish his Nobel ‘Peace’ Prize this weekend?

    • DemocratPartyBlows

      Muslims killing Muslims just for political purposes.  He’s so tough.

      • Honn

        RMSK

    • Guest354

      RMSK

  • Greyman

    Now that California’s hole of “mega-billions” ($16 billion and climbing) has been described soberly by Gov. Brown (whose recent flirtation with fiscal sobriety comes months after his last bout of candor regarding California’s insolvency, when the eyechart read barely $9 billion): how can the specific efforts of Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker fail to show themselves as responsible and sensible efforts to avert the ignominious fate of California? If any state or Federal system lacks the simple mechanics for collecting taxes as promptly as career politicians can find ways to spend them, then the state or Federal mechanism for spending does not merit the public’s enthusiastic support. Has anyone come up with a metric for measuring bureaucratic views of cashflow? The temporal component of such seems quite low, as we see just how easy it is to spend money not one’s own.       

    • TFRX

      The specifics of Wisconsin show that the crisis was generated by Walker’s tax giveaways to his rich cronies. It wasn’t a crisis until Walker got there.

      He’s the kind of hero nobody appreciates until he tries to put out a fire that he happened to start.

      • Greyman

        So you are saying we see the metrics of patronage at work in Wisconsin. As I say: ditto for California, and every bit as much for Wisconsin itself: no monopoly on patronage is permitted in the US we know and love. (Observe I do not argue for state subsidization of business and industry, although I’m realist enough to see that the scope of the Federal government’s long-term contract with the weapons industry seems inevitably to invite and permit Federal dabbling in other private businesses as well as setting up dubious quasi-public/quasi-private organizations of dubious management or repetitive mismanagement.) If the Republicans are justly tagged with protecting the energy industry or the pharmaceutical industry with the tax code, the Democrats are surely tagged with the kind of politics the Commonwealth of Massachusetts so grandly illustrated with the “Big Dig” (unfairly do I relish the irony that California’s hole is almost exactly as large as the Federal-state patronage system that the “Big Dig” afforded the Commonwealth of Massachusetts over almost two entire decades). The Democrats’ system of “patronal dispensation” is no less odious and apparently not at all less costly than any Republican reward to success.  

        • Jenm

          You had me until you used the phrase “Republican reward to success”
          how about an example of what you are referring to.

          • Greyman

            Such as the stated subsidization of the petroleum sector and the arguable (level of) subsidization of the weapons industry. The fine points of accounting would have to be invoked to determine where a tax break begins and where an actual outlay of tax dollars ends; attempts to shield producers from start-up costs (a la Solyndra) can of course give every identical appearance of being both business subsidy and political patronage.

          • TFRX

            Walker invented the crisis to invent a crisis, not to do anything resembling governance.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          The oil sector, the natural gas sector, and the coal sector of ‘the Energy Industry’, are over a hundred years old, have brought in HUGE profits for MOST of those years, and STILL need help?
             Our renewable energy sector, has been maligned as ‘Too Costly’, although a producing Solar, or Wind unit can be installed and put into production, as fast as they can drill a dry hole, or two!
             BIG OIL, BIG COAL, AND BIG GAS, with DECADES of subsidies, tax breaks, and other government help, FIGHT subsidies for younger renewable energy sources?

      • TomK in Boston

        They tell us about “starve the beast” and they carry out “starve the beast”. In a time of unprecedented low taxes, they keep running the script abt out of control spending as the cause of deficits, and the sheep still fall for it. 

  • Michiganjf

    Thanks Chrystia,

       for pointing out the lies and stupidity regarding the right’s anti-socialism argument regarding European economoies!

    Excellent!

    I wish the rest of the media would call the right on their interminable stupidity and lies!

    • Drew (GA)

      I was very impressed with her commentary and greatful for her directness.

    • Azra

      Dream on . . .

    • DemocratPartyBlows

      She’s a complete hack, waste of time.

      • JKJK

        RMSK

  • Jim

    to the right wings… Barack Hussein Obama???

    Can you Neo-cons explain to me why this HUSSEIN Obama go and kill Osama bin laden… you know muslims do NOT assassinate  its own kind.

    to the super-packs especially Romney who is doing it… SHAME ON YOU! you guys are nothing but a bunch of low lives. Respect our President. if you do not, then you do NOT respect this country.

    To to make the record straight for the neo-cons, Our President is a Christian… and i repeat this a Christian. does it get across your hard and narrow conservative skull?
     

    • William

      The “right” should show the same level of respect to Obama as the left showed to President Bush.

      • TFRX

        Let’s see, the worst-reviewed and least popular president in a century should not be disliked by his political enemies, the people he got slagged as traitors because they objected to his lying us into war and ignoring the cause of 9/11.

        Yeah, that makes sense.

        • William

          I always thought Nixon or LBJ were much worse. Bush just followed the Clinton Doctrine and it’s Iraq Liberation Act and his attack on Iraq was approved by Congress. Whereas, Obama’s attack on Libya was not approved by Congress.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Millitary action in Iraq was ‘authorized by Congress, AFTER all other available means were exhausted’!
               ‘W’ bypassed all that, and crooked up ‘justification’ for invading Iraq, WITHOUT following the edicts of Congress!

          • William

            Congress approved the War with Iraq..not the War against Libya. You can’t make up your own facts. If you want to blame anyone for the War against Iraq..blame Clinton…it was his failed Iraq Liberation Act that led us down the path to war….

          • TFRX

            He lied us into war. I’ve been accused of treason for it, chump.

            I don’t care what you think.

            Why don’t you suck on those refined aluminum tube and huff some yellowcake?

          • William

            You lose again…

      • Jim

        the left would never go to the same level and extreme.

        do you see left super packs placing ads calling bush as a war criminal and traitor for the valerie plame case? btw. the war criminal might be extreme. but he and his administration did betray their own country.

        • William

          Yes, I fondly remember the civility of the left during the Bush years. So Obama’s secret war in Yemen’s Civil War does not bother you? Or Obama’s war in Libya which was not approved by Congress is a good example to follow? Or Obama’s failure to close Gitmo despite his speechs how harmful to America the Gitmo prison is?

          • Jim

            no, it does not bother me, because he has my trust and he is protecting american lives and interest, unlike the previous administration who places itself first over everyone else which means any americans outside of its inner circle. the biggest example is the Valerie Plame case. in fact the Plame case is an act of TREASON.

          • William

            Treason?..so when Obama told the Russian President “oh, wait till I get relected and I’ll cut you a deal”..that makes you feel safer huh?

      • JinJin

        RMSK

    • DemocratPartyBlows

      Muslims kill each other everyday.  Obama just got some with a drone yesterday.  See Jack below.

      With this guy as president, I am no longer proud of my country.

      • Jim

        then, i suggest you relinquish your citizenship and leave this country. believe me, you will feel better. go to the UK.

        • DemocratPartyBlows

          I feel it’s my duty to change the country from the inside, not to take the easy way out like a Democrat party member would.

          • Jim

            part of your duty is to stop and defend the presidency against fallacious and cowardly attacks from the extreme right…

          • THI1438

            RMSK

          • Kljrjjkj

            RMSK

        • Azra

          Or someplace hotter.

          • J123

            RMSK

      • Terry Tree Tree

        You were proud of the U.S., with an admitted AWOL, and deserter in charge, starting cowardly wars against countries that were NOT the origin of MOST of the ’9/11 attackers’?
           You were proud of the U.S., when we had a ‘selected-not-elected’ leader?
           You were proud, when the leader of the most powerful nation on earth, couldn’t remember a whole, common, phrase, from the radio in his ear?  Who MANGLED the english language, almost every time he opened his mouth?  Such a disgusting example of ‘American Superiority’?

    • Azra

      They’re in denial. Still can’t admit that someone whose father was born in Africa can be a model citizen, and a model human being; an inspiration and to us all, who gives us something to strive for.

      Bigoted morons aren’t able to accept the fact that he is such a good, decent person, that he has some African blood, yet he is so much smarter, and better than they are, or ever will be. Most of all, they don’t want to admit that he has the right stuff to be our leader,

      PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

  • Ellen Dibble

    Thank you, Jamie Dimon, for highlighting a glitch in our global finances.  England, with an excellent track record, might have escaped your particular oversight in this case, but it is a cautionary tale for sure.  Had it been a more considerable, in large bank terms, we would all be heading for the hills.  As it is, we are heading for the casinos with certain, um, demands.  Get a GRIP!

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Yup, the media and many on the left rushed to judgement on the Zimmerman case, but now we have some actual evidence.  Alas, we’ll have to watch out for riots when Zimmerman is set free.

    • MadMarkTheCodeWarrior

      Some, but not all the evidence… and who was stalking whom with a gun?

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        As far as I know, the gun was in Zimmerman’s pocket.  Martin had no reason to feel that his life was in danger.  Perhaps being under the influence of marijuana made him paranoid, but that’s not what a reasonable person would accept.

        • Stillin

          “under the influence of marijuana?” are you kidding? Marijuana users are sooo sloooow and hard to motivate, I should know, I teach some…and I woud not put it past Zimmerman to tell someone to injure him for his case. Sorry, black kids buying candy and soda don’t attack white guys.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            Marijuana makes some people paranoid.  Apparently, you’ve never worked in an urban high school. . .

          • ParsonSimtex

            True, but it is a hide-in-the-closet paranoia, not a go-out-and-get-em paranoia.

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            Your “explanations” epitomize the prejudice and irrationality that’s been imposed on this incident.

            As one who regularly used grass and other psychoactive drugs 40 years ago, I can assure you they contribute to disinhibition of all sorts.

            Given that there were multiple witnesses to the fight, that the police were on the scene less than one minute after the shot was fired, and that paramedics examined and treated him soon after, your allegation is deeply troubling and suggestive of profound prejudice.

            Even more so the statement that “black kids (sic – he was 6’3 and 150 lbs) don’t attack white guys (sic – he was Hispanic with a black great grandfather)”.

          • ParsonSimtex

            As unlikely as is, I agree with you, until you claim that grass  contributes to “disinhibition” (a double negative in one word -no wonder it’s not a word).  That is just not true.  I think that it is far more likely that you being forty years younger and possibly having an expectation that it would lead to such.  subconsiously influenced such behavior, and I can believe that some of the other “psychoactive drugs” you used had such an effect, but all evidence shows clearly that in our culture grass has the opposite effect. That is why the term “couch-lock” is a quality used to describe different strains of grass.  Just like you would describe the acidity or proof of a wine it is a quality used to rate  different strains of cannabis – the degree of couch-lock, one of the main qualities of a person who uses THC as a recreational molecule is that they don’t get much done and drive real slow, also that they become socially inhibited and are much less likely to do something like approach an attractive member of the opposite sex or start a fight.
            Don’t believe me? Just survey the owners of the coffee-shops in Amsterdam that sell cannabis products for people to vaporize or eat on premises. It is very likely that they have been there for 20 plus years and not had one violent incident.  Then do the same in bars or even gyms were nothing is served. You had been so accurate an lucid until you farted your anecdotal opinion on the effects of cannabis and categorized it with other psycotropic substances none of which have anything in common with it either in behavioral or metabolic effect.

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            Disinhibition is a widely recognized psychological
            term  used to describe a lack of restraint manifested in several ways, including disregard for social conventions, impulsivity, and poor risk assessment. 

            As a pioneer in the altered state movement of the 60s and 70s, I have a fairly accurate understanding of the psychoactive effects of street drugs.

            You can peddle your nonsense somewhere else.

          • ParsonSimtex

            My nonsense is quite able to be backed up by research.  You have just demonstrated an inability to abide the least form of criticism sort of like Romney in a way. Wake up, you are the big chief expert but apparently don’t know the limits of your expertise.
            And if you reply with any further expressions of pedestrian hostility I will make it my duty to point out every little unenlightened twist and turn of what passes in you skull for thought.

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            Please do. You will accomplish nothing but demonstrating your own ignorance and inability to engage in honest argument.

          • CarsonPlatt23

            Get over yourself chief

          • Inrytchim

            RMSK

          • SomeChick34

            The Parson wasn’t arguing over the meaning of a word. He was pointing out your misleading statements about Pot. And he was correct. 

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            Yes he was. No he wasn’t. 

          • SomeChick34

            everything h3e wrote can easily be confirmed if you really care

          • JessFarley4

            a pioneer in something that has been done for thousands of years! Get over yourself chief. Just what new ground did you cover? Or perhaps you have such a goiter of an ego that you though your little experiments were a first for all mankind?

          • JJJimmmanyC

            Really, you are that old?  No gray at all or do you dye your hair? Or use an old picture?  If you haven’t used marijuanna for a while it is really likely that you have no idea how a puff or two of the stuff now available can put you right to sleep it is so strong. That’s what happens if you ingest too much THC — you fall asleeep.  Less makes you lazy — thus this guys use of the term couch-lock. Nobody who knows anything about it could deny this so how is it that a self-proclaimed expert like yourself can?

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            You’re that young and you have the arrogance and audacity to believe you know the psychopharmacology, cognitive and affective stages of neural synaptic response to THC?

            Iversen (The Science of Marijuana, Oxford University Press, 2000) categorized the subjective and behavioral effects often associated with marijuana into four stages. The first is the “buzz,” a brief period of initial responding, where the main effects are lightheadedness or slight dizziness, in addition to possible tingling sensations in the extremities or other parts of the body. The “high” is characterized by feelings of euphoria and exhilaration, as well as a sense of disinhibition. If the individual has taken a sufficiently large dose of cannabis, the level of intoxication progresses to the stage of being “stoned,” and the user may feel calm, relaxed, and possibly in a dreamlike state.

            Apparently, you spend so much time being stoned that you don’t know what the high feels like. Too bad you weren’t around in the 60′s to experience the entire range of effects and possibilities.

          • Azra

            Maybe Trayvon wasn’t aware of that. If he had been, there would have been no reason to fear Zimmerman, regardless of how menacing he appeared.

          • at

             Robert I am responding to you here because I can’t read it if I go any lower. 
            You are better than this.  You were correct about the word disinhibition but this person is not saying anything that isn’t common knowledge. Antiquated clinical descriptions of pot highs really don’t apply to reality. Anyhow I would be willing to bet that the girl you are responding to was around in the sixties, as was I — and well before.  And I wish my hair was as dark as yours is at my age, I would take that little rant as a compliment. Just my two cents as a fifty year long user of this particular molecule.  By the way, the kids today know way more about the metabolic mechanisms and all manner of details about pot than we did back then. Way more.

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            Yes some kids certainly know more about the qualities and attributes of pot now than we knew then. But, while my knowledge then was purely experiential, I’ve probably done more study since then of the science than these kids ever will.

            I stand by my statements.

          • at

            Well my friend if you haven’t visited one of the MANY internet sites dedicated to such info lately, I think you may be surprised by the explosion of scientific knowledge in the past few years.  I actually saw one TED talk (and I can’t find it because it was about neurons and doesn’t mention drugs in the title) were a researcher was reporting on things that could forestall alzheimer’s by stimulating the growth of new brain cells.  Apologetically he explained that THC stimulated such growth.
            Another surprising fact I came upon was that statistically even heavy smokers of cannabis had not only less of a chance of developing lung cancer than tobacco smokers but less of a chance than people who don’t smoke anything at all.
            That was a total surprise to me.
            If that weren’t enough it also seems to slow the aging process. Fortunately it seems that most of these great effects are to be had at levels below what it takes to get high.
            Some people are now eating raw cannabis on a daily basis which they claim affords all these effects without any high.  I haven’t seen any proof of this thought, but it is an interesting turn of events

          • at

             I have to leave now but I will leave all involved in this discussion with this thought: As regards the THC found in his blood: It is entirely moot because you know as well as I that there is no way that any crime lab did a quantitative analysis of the amount of THC in his blood, so there is no way to know when he ingested the THC that was detected since THC can be detected weeks and in some cases months after it has been ingested. So all argument is irrelevant as regards this particular case.

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            Why would you make such an assumption? The reporting on the autopsy states otherwise and no forensic pathologist worth his salt would fail to quantify the amount.

            Martin’s autopsy indicated that medical examiners found THC, the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, when they tested Martin’s blood and urine. The amount described in the autopsy report is such a low level that it would have played no role in Martin’s behavior, said Larry Kobilinsky, a professor of forensic science at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York. ”This kind of level can be seen days after somebody smokes”. 

            What is relevant in this case is not that Martin had traces of THC in his blood, but that he had a history of unprovoked aggressive violence.

          • at

             I am not arguing with you at all. I am very happy that you took the time to answer everyone’s questions with what seem to be clear impartial views.

            I have an idea of the relative difference between detecting a substance and finding the actual ppm in the blood. I should have expected such a high profile case to warrant such analysis. Do you have a link to the actual type of procedure that was used in the lab? Just for my own curiosity.

        • Hidan

          Yep someone being stalked in a call is never a reason to be fearful. Not like there wasn’t a phone call between Martin and a female or anything.

          Jezzz

          • Hidan

            “stalked in a car on the phone” is never a reason to be fearful.

      • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

        Carefully following, as a neighborhood watchman concerned about multiple burglaries, robberies and an home invasion perpetrated by precisely the same demographic, is not “stalking”, and there was nothing illegal about either following or carrying the gun.

        Those should be the salient points, as well as the admission from Trayvon’s girlfriend that it was Trayvon who first confronted Zimmerman, the obvious injuries on Zimmerman, and who was screaming for their lives (apparently not Trayvon).

        • Azra

          So Trayvon was the one who stopped his car to go after Zimmerman with a gun? Where did you get you misinformation? Trayvon was the one who was walking, unarmed, with both hands full, and innocently talking on the phone. Then Zimmerman did exactly what he was told NOT to do. HE was the aggressor, and was BEHIND Trayvon. If Trayvon tried to save his life, THAT was done in self-defense. How could Zimmerman possibly claim self-defense, when he started the whole thing?

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            You’re a perfect example of those who deliberately turn all the known facts upside down in order to “prove” a predetermined conclusion.

            Everything I’ve posted is based on the known facts and evidence. From that evidentiary base, there is only one legitimate conclusion: that Zimmerman was doing nothing illegal or inappropriate and that he was attacked by Martin, who instigated the confrontation.

    • Adks12020

      Whether or not Trayvon beat up Mr. Zimmerman is not relevant.  Zimmerman got out of his car and actively pursued Martin with a gun, against the advice of the 911 call center.  The fact that Zimmerman couldn’t stand up for himself in a fight without a gun just shows that the young man was tougher than him and “stood his ground” against Zimmerman. When Zimmerman realized he wasn’t up to the task of defending himself, he shot him.

      If he had just made the phone call and allowed the police to do their job, he would be free and Martin would be alive.  Plain and simple.  There was no need to chase the kid.

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

         So you see a stranger in your neighborhood, a neighborhood that’s had a series of robberies recently, and you’d just call the police and hope that they take care of the matter?

        • Adks12020

          Yes. That’s exactly what you do.  Anyone in law enforcement would tell you the same.  You have no idea who that person is or what they are doing. At best they could be someone just out for a walk; at worst they could be a violent criminal that will likely be more effective at inflicting deadly force than you.  Chasing down criminals is not the job of the public.  That’s why we pay law enforcement.  This isn’t the wild west.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            So I have to cower in my home or car, but a stranger is free to wander the streets?  No thank you.

          • Adks12020

            Yes, in the United States of America strangers are free to wander the streets as they please. Despite what you may think you don’t have to know someone for them to be a decent person.   Everyone you haven’t met is a stranger to you.  That means there are billions of people in the world that are strangers to someone in the world. That doesn’t automatically make them all criminals.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            Of course, being a stranger isn’t criminal.  But neither is it criminal for a resident to walk on the same street.  My point is that you want Zimmerman to have stayed inside, while Martin could walk around.

          • Azra

            Zimmerman didn’t belong there. He was told, in no uncertain terms, not to get out of his car. He got out of his car, and began stalking Trayvon. He was told, clearly, to stop following Trayvon, and to get back into his car. Trayvon had every right to be there. He wasn’t breaking any laws, by going to the store, except maybe the unwritten HOODIE LAW. Unfortunately, it was raining, hence the hood.

          • jefe68

            That’s not what Adks12020 said. Do you read what people are writing and then comprehend the information?
            It seems you have a preconceived idea already in mind no matter what anyone posts on any subject.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

             How about you?  He said that Zimmerman should have stayed in his car.  Martin, on the other hand, was free to walk the street, in his view.

          • Hidan

            how dare young black males walk the street.

          • Azra

            Indeed! Armed with Skittles, and tea, and talking to his girlfriend on the telephone, no less! He had “SUSPICIOUS” written all over him. Why was Trayvon doing that, if he wasn’t up to no good? It was as if he didn’t know that Zimmerman was a bigoted, self-appointed vigilante. Too involved in his telephone conversation to notice, I guess.

          • Azra

            In ANYONE’S view. His father lives there. Why should he not be allowed to go to the store?

          • Azra

            Sorry. This thing is all wonky today. My comment was typed under Greg Camp’s 11:23.

            Maybe it’s only happening on my phone. Will have to turn it off for a while, and see what happens.

        • Adks12020

          I’d also like to note that if you live in a city, like I do, there are “strangers” in your neighborhood EVERY DAY.  I don’t assume everyone that I don’t recognize is a criminal, whether or not there have been recent robberies.

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            It’s not a matter of assuming. If there have been 8 burglaries, 9 robberies, and one home invasion in your sequestered neighborhood in the last year alone, most of them perpetrated by young, black, male strangers – then it is not a matter of racial profiling but fact-based profiling that would lead you to suspect that another who exactly fits the profile and seems to be wandering aimlessly in the rain, avoiding roads and sidewalks and looking at the homes, may be a perpetrator.

            Further, if a number of the perpetrators had gotten away prior to the police arriving, then you might want to keep an eye on this one until the police arrive.

            Everything that Zimmerman did was rational, reasonable and legal.

          • Hidan

            Didn’t the phone calls (between him and teh female )reveal that Martin was fearful of the strange person following him? Why does Martin not get the bennie that Zimmerman was there to cause harm? What’s the rate of violence in the area? Why wouldn’t Martin be fearful of his life ? If say a old man was walking down the street at night and someone was following him talking a a phone. Wouldn’t it be resonable for the old man to be fearful of personal harm who is (by now) intent of following or has been?

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            If you’re fearful of someone following you, and you’re within steps of your destination, you do what his girlfriend suggested and run home. Instead, Martin hid and assaulted Zimmerman. That was neither rational nor wise.

          • Hidan

            Also in the same area the former police cheif had to resign cause he son beat a homeless man and nothing to very little was done. Zimmerman father also was a former judge who has (one would assume) clout. Could this not be a factor

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            Zimmerman led the protest against the police assault on a black homeless man, suggesting he was neither racist nor pro-police. 

            His father was not a judge but a magistrate (low-level official) in another state.

      • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

        You, like so many others who are not being objective, ignore the fact that there was nothing illegal or even improper about Zimmerman trying to keep the subject within eyesight. Zimmerman had made the call to the police, was advised but not ordered to stay in his car, and attempted to make an additional call when he was confronted and then assaulted by Martin.

        Stand Your Ground applies only when faced with immanent threat of death or great bodily harm, so that does not apply to Martin, but clearly applies to Zimmerman when he was sucker-punched and then having his head slammed into the ground with no way to escape short of escalation of force.

        • Adks12020

          Wait? Someone following you with a gun isn’t threatening? I’ve been mugged with a gun and when the guy started following me with his hand on his waist I sure as heck felt threatened.  I’m pretty sure most people would feel the same way.

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            As far as we know, the gun was not visible and was certainly not being brandished by Zimmerman. Once again, you’re making unwarranted assumptions in order to support your preconception.

        • Zero

           How does self-defense not apply to Martin?  He was the one being followed by a man a hundred pounds bigger than him.  If I was followed by someone that much bigger than me, I would sucker-punch him.  It’s not like Zimmerman was cordial when he approached Martin.  And he had to have been following Martin against the 911 operator’s orders to have been sucker-punched.  I don’t see how self-defense applies to Zimmerman when Zimmerman was the instigator.

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            Zimmerman was only 20 lbs heavier and 4″-6″ shorter. Self defense applies only once you’re being assaulted or threatened with assault. The evidence, including Trayvon’s girlfriend’s testimony, indicates that it was Trayvon who initiated the physical confrontation, and it was Zimmerman who was in legitimate fear for his life. 

            There was never a police order for Zimmerman to refrain from following Martin – it was a dispatcher’s advice.

            If you get your facts straight, you might come to a different conclusion.

          • Zero

            First, I said it was the dispatcher order/advice.  Second, there was no reason for Zimmerman to come close enough for a physical confrontation, which would warrant self-defense for Martin, i.e., he had the right to punch or sucker-punch him.  People who follow other people should expect a physical confrontation–either Zimmerman is an idiot for not expecting that or he is just another case of someone having a gun (when he wasn’t suppose to) and feeling a little powerful.  Trayvon Martin was not looking for a confrontation, but George Zimmerman (by his very job) was and he shot an unarmed man. Zimmerman was the instigator, Martin had a right to perceive a threat and defend himself. 

            Second, the weight report I got was from CNN; I just read a CBS article, which said that his weight is inconclusive but the Miami herald reported that  he weighed around 50-60 pounds more. 

            Also, audio experts have concluded that the voice crying “help” is not Zimmerman.  But it is still being analyzed by the FBI 

            I would also like to see Zimmerman’s shirt because if he shot Martin while he was “on top” then his shirt should have Martin’s blood on it.

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            You said, and I quote, “And he had to have been following Martin against the 911 operator’s orders”. Nothing about advice. There were no orders, and the operator is often not a police officer.

            Unless Zimmerman pulled his gun first (and there is no evidence of that) then Martin had no legally justified excuse for aggressive self-defense.

            Zimmerman had a concealed weapon permit and so had the legal right to be carrying his gun, as acknowledged by the police.

            By stating that “Trayvon Martin was not looking for a confrontation” you’re reading your own bias into the facts. No one, but Trayvon, knows what was in his mind at the time, and he had a history of initiating physical aggression (he assaulted a school bus driver).

            No one, under SYG, who has initiated an aggression has the right to use deadly force unless they believe there is ”imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape”. So Martin, even if he felt himself to be threatened, had the duty to retreat. Instead, he advanced and escalated the confrontation.

            Those “audio experts” were private contractors. The FBI cannot conclusively determine whose voice it was, but when the police first played the recordings to Trayvon’s father, he stated that it was not his son’s voice.

            And, as with all other mistakes in your argument, you fail to understand forensic blood splatter patterns. You are straining to fit the facts to your conclusion, and are misconstruing almost every element of the incident.

          • Zero

            I still disagree.  It is justifiable to physically confront someone who is following one.  I don’t see how I am straining as well.  Zimmerman clearly instigated the situation.  And you are claiming that Martin used deadly force. 

            Martin defended himself against reasonable threat.  And if you think I’m being biased about that, then I think you need to reevaluate what “bias” is.  I personally would not like being followed and I would probably hit the person before the person hit me.  Not only do I disagree with you that Martin only had a right to defend himself if Zimmerman pulled a gun, Martin wouldn’t be able to defend himself if Zimmerman had pulled a gun.  In fact, it is reasonable to believe that the unknown person following Martin had a weapon, and that Martin should attack before he got jumped.

            I would like to read what Zimmerman had told the police the conversation was before it got physical.  In the stuff I have read thus far, Zimmerman didn’t identify himself as a neighborhood patrol.

            And the fact that he didn’t listen to the 911 operators advice is also evidence that Zimmerman had a touch of the vigilante. 

            Also, I don’t see how Martin’s blood would have not gotten on Zimmerman’s shirt if Martin was on top.  Would not Martin fall on Zimmerman?  Would not Martin have been bleeding.  I know he was wearing a sweeter but the police should be able to find traces of Martin’s blood on Zimmerman’s shirt if the story is true.  If you know something I don’t about forensic blood splattering than tell me (at the top if you will).

            Second, don’t call me biased.  Everything I have been saying is based off of evidence.  And some of your evidence was not correct as well–particularly the comment about
            the weight discrepancy. 

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            In fact, your bias and prejudice is stunning. Your entire argument is based on assumption, innuendo and allegation – none of it based an known facts or available evidence. Your logic is faulty and your ethics are highly questionable.

            “it is reasonable to believe that the unknown person following Martin had a weapon”

            Nothing makes that a “reasonable” belief unless this was a neighborhood in which everyone walked around armed – and it was quite the opposite.

            “And the fact that he didn’t listen to the 911 operators advice is also evidence that Zimmerman had a touch of the vigilante.”

            That’s a conclusion based on nothing but your own imagination. Zimmerman has a long history of protecting the marginalized and the bullied, defending a black homeless man who was victimized by the Sanford police, hung out with an autistic child, and mentored two black teens – which makes him a kind and caring person, not a vigilante. That Zimmerman was almost finished with a degree in criminal justice indicates that he understands the limits and constraints of the law and wishes to serve his community, which was also evident in his accepting the position of neighborhood watch captain.

            By your logic, every one of the thousands of neighborhood watch volunteers are closet vigilantes rather than concerned citizens.

            “I would like to read what Zimmerman had told the police the conversation was before it got physical.”

            Then why haven’t you. It’s been all over the news. 

            Zimmerman said that Trayvon walked up to the car and asked him, ‘Why are your following me?’ Zimmerman then rolled his car window down, told Trayvon ‘I’m not following you’ and rolled his car window back up.

            Trayvon ran off and Zimmerman got out of his car to see where Trayvon was going. As he came around the building, Trayvon was hiding and waiting for him. Trayvon approached him and said, ‘What’s your problem, homes?’ Zimmerman said ‘I don’t have a problem.’

            Zimmerman started to reach into his pocket to get his cellphone, and at that point Trayvon punched him in the face, knocking him to the ground, jumped on top of him, covered Zimmerman’s mouth and told him to shut the fuck up and continued to pound on him.

            The physical wounds, including a broken nose, cut and swollen lip and lacerations to the back of the head all corroborate Zimmerman’s account.

            Zimmerman, at that point, feared for his life, managed to unholster his gun and fired one shot, which went through Martin’s heart. Once the heart stops pumping, there is little to no bleeding as there is no blood pressure.

            I made no claim that Martin used deadly force – only that Zimmerman had reason to fear for his life with someone pounding his head into the concrete.

            The confrontation began when Martin approached Zimmerman’s car, it then escalated when Martin hid and waited for Zimmerman, and escalated into physical violence when Martin struck the first blow and then escalated further as Martin continued to pound Zimmerman. The confrontation ended by Zimmerman’s legal use of deadly force in a situation which did not allow him any means of retreat.

            It is never “justifiable to physically confront someone who is following one”, or to escalate to physical violence if someone merely accosts you verbally. The person who escalates a confrontation into violence is the one responsible for the outcome.

            There was a lot of misinformation that was published soon after the incident came to light, including the old pictures and the weight taken from Zimmerman’s previous arrest when he was much heavier. 

            The New York Times reported in April that Zimmerman is 5-foot-9 and 170 pounds, while Martin was 6-foot-1 and 150 pounds. Martin’s parents said he was 6′-2″.Everything I’ve posted on line is based on reading 40,000 words (85 pages) of published articles I’ve downloaded in order to get the facts straight. I have the transcript of Zimmerman’s 911 call with a minute-by-minute timeline of the events. I’ve listened to all the 911 witness calls, and studied Florida’s Title XLVI CRIMES, CHAPTER 776, Justifiable Use Of Force statute.

            Unlike most people, I took the trouble to fully investigate the incident before coming to a conclusion.

      • Azra

        You don’t understand. That’s why Zimmerman was there. He was tired of those *#<~!^• always getting away. Remember? When the things he said are added to the racial content of his emails, he HAD to murder Trayvon. He wasn't about to let another one "get away".

        • Jim12

          RMSK

    • DemocratPartyBlows

      Especially the host of this show!  He jumped before anyone else, as he often does.

      • Jim23

        RMSK

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Caller, walking down the street isn’t aggression.  Asking questions of a stranger in your neighborhood isn’t aggression.  Pounding someone’s head into the sidewalk is aggression.  Get it?

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Zimmerman wasn’t threatening Martin’s life until Martin knocked him down.  Martin isn’t covered by Stand Your Ground.

  • MrNutso

    If not for SYG this never would have happened.  The law creates the situation.  Because Zimmerman knew he could rely on SYG, he pursued Martin.  If the law wasn’t in affect, he would have stayed in his car.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Are we certain that Zimmerman was aware of Stand Your Ground before the fact?  In addition, a person can’t look into what a stranger is doing in his neighborhood?

      • J__o__h__n

        He should have stayed in the car when law enforcement instructed him to.  That was when he created the situation. 

        • Worried for the country(MA)

           Who says he was in the car when he called 911?

          Zimmerman claims to have obeyed the 911 dispatcher and stopped following Martin and was only trying to get an exact street address when he was attacked from behind.

          We may never know for certain without an eyewitness.

        • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

          Yes, it’s likely the situation would not have happened in that case (though we can’t be certain since Martin had already become alarmed about Zimmerman when he was still in his car, and attempted to confront him at that point), but Zimmerman did nothing illegal by getting out of his car to keep the subject within eyesight.

          That’s the relevant legal issue. 

      • MrNutso

        He was certainly aware afterwards, because that’s part of his self defense claim.

        • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

          No, Zimmerman’s claim was merely self-defense. SYG primarily restricts the actions of police and prosecutors in the case of a self-defense claim.

          In this case, the lead investigator thought there was probable cause for an arrest but his superiors did not.

          • Azra

            How many other police would have been so remiss as to have failed to give a drug and alcohol test to a man who shot a child to death just moments before? Probably quite a few, in America. It’s not exactly Scotland Yard we’re talking about here, more like Dukes of Hazzard.

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            Yes, probably most, because without probable cause there is no legal justification for such tests.

            And your use of the word “child”, while technically correct, is deliberately prejudicial when that “child” is 6’3″ and 150 lbs and capable of overpowering an adult.

          • Azra

            Isn’t manslaughter considered probable cause anymore?

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            Probable cause is based on evidence, not conclusions.

    • Worried for the country(MA)

       Now you are a mind reader?

      It looks like SYG isn’t even a factor.  If Zimmerman is acquitted it will be on simple self defense.

      • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

        SYG is a factor because it makes a self-defense claim in a public space much easier to defend, since there is no duty to retreat (just as in a home).

        • Gregg

          I don’t disagree but to me there is an inherent problem with legislating what is allowed. It just seems convoluted to say someone is granted the right not to retreat. There was no law before SYG that required retreat when your life was in peril. You used the word “duty” so there maybe something I don’t know. I’m not an expert.

          Isn’t it better for legislators to legislate what we can’t do under the constraints of a Constitution that tells legislators what they can’t do? 

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            The old English “castle doctrine”, which has been incorporated into American law, allows the use of deadly force to defend one’s home. But our laws have always assumed a duty to retreat when outside the home.

            The SYG laws extend the “home” to any structure, whether permanent or temporary, fixed or mobile (such as cars, boats, RVs) and extend the “no duty to retreat” standard to any public place one has a legal right to be, even if one initiates the aggression and is then faced with an immanent threat.

            It’s not so much that these laws define what is allowed, but restrict police and prosecutors from making an arrest, let alone initiating a court action, if anyone claims self-defense in a public place – just as would apply in a home defense.

          • Gregg

            It just all seems like unnecessary legalese to me. I think it’s good enough to let a court of law wade through the threat, perceived threat, options available, hard evidence etc. to determine intent (pre-meditated down to vehicular manslaughter) and let the chips fall. I agree with SYG as a concept but not as a law. Hopefully I’ll never have to decide whether to use lethal force but I’ll do what I have to do to protect myself and loved ones.

            I’d also add, I don’t believe race is an issue at all. Zimmerman could be a Grand Dragon or the Pope, it doesn’t matter to me.  

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            Ostensibly, the excuse used in Florida to pass the SYG law was that an elderly man, living in an RV, had a home invasion, killed the perpetrator, and then had to spend his life savings defending his action in court, which dragged out for a long time before he was finally exonerated.

          • jefe68

            Are in support of such laws?

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            Whether I am or not is irrelevant to a conclusion based on the facts and evidence of the case.

            As it happens, I’m staunchly opposed to Stand Your Ground laws and even have concerns about the Castle Doctrine leading to unnecessary deaths.

      • Azra

        No, it was TRAYVON who fought back in self-defense. Zimmerman was the aggressor, remember?

    • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

      Not true. There have always been self-defense justifications within the law. The only thing SYG changes is “no duty to retreat” when outside the home. 

      When someone is in the midst of a tense situation, one doesn’t review the most recent legal policies before acting. We know, for instance that the death penalty doesn’t serve as a deterrent because that’s not what’s on people’s minds in the heat of action.

      • Markus

        Wow. Someone who replies with facts and doesn’t escalate every issue to how bad republicans, bankers, capitalism, Romney, etc is. Are you on the wrong forum?

        Thanks

        • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

          Apparently. Only prejudiced and closed-minded ideologues are welcome here.

      • Azra

        It was Zimmerman who made the situation tense.

        • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

          Tension is legal. Assaulting someone in a public place is not. That’s the matter before the law.

          • Hidan

            We also don’t know if any Verbal threats if any by Zimmerman. Also Zimmerman was part or claim to be part of the NW it’s hardly unlikly one would forget the streets in the area.

  • Libervir

    Why did it take Zimmerman so long to find a simple doctor’s report?

    Or did it take him that long to find a simple doctor willing to make it?

    • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

      There was the paramedic’s report, based on examination and treatment at the scene moments after the incident, and it is in perfect agreement with the doctor’s report. The injuries are not in doubt (and, frankly, never were except for those who wished to make a federal case out of a simple tragedy).

      • Libervir

        Why doesn’t he have black eyes in his universally circulated mug shot?

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

          Because that photograph is an old one, not from the present incident.

        • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

          The proper question is why did the press almost universally circulate a 7-year-old mug shot in which Zimmerman looked mean and angry, and then juxtapose that against old pictures of a young and innocent looking Trayvon?

          When current pictures finally surfaced, it was Zimmerman who looked mature and responsible while Trayvon looked like a hoodlum. But the old pictures continue to get more circulation than the new ones.

          • Azra

            It’s not the photographs, but the deeds which matter.

          • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

            Yes, but the “deeds” of the media were intended to inflame a race war rather than objectively inform the American people, and the black and progressive communities fell for the trap.

          • Guest

            I see a small bit of irony with media which initially refused to refer to Zimmerman as Hispanic even though he’s 50% Peruvian, yet this same media has no problem with Elizabeth Warren referring to herself as Cherokee when she is at best 1/32 Cherokee and at worse as much of a WASP as can be.  It makes me believe that the media must have had another agenda in referencing Zimmerman as white.

          • Azra

            They seem to thrive on conflict, and sensationalism. O, for the halcyon days of Walter Kronkite, and Edward R. Murrow. Bet it was nothing like what we’re saddled with today. They had high standards, and integrity. The National Enquirer might have been aroind then, I don’t know, but no one took it seriously then.

  • Jack Marshak

    Noam Chomsky:

    Bush kidnapped and tortured, Obama murders

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/05/16/241483/bush-tortured-obama-kills-chomsky/

    Apparently Chomsky didn’t get the memo, since Obama won the Nobel ‘Peace’ Prize, Obama is not bound by international law or domestic laws, so Barack is free to assassinate to his hearts content.

    • DemocratPartyBlows

      Sounds like a case could be made that Bush didn’t kill enough to get the Peace Prize

      • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

        I suspect the Nobel Committee used the new Bush/Cheney pre-emptive strike policy and tried to force Obama into a peaceful path before he had a chance to stray. 

        Oh, well! Pre-emption never works.

        • Zing

           It works if done right…

      • jimino

        Bush still leads by several hundred thousand, so that’s obviously not the reason.  And are you and Jack pacifists that oppose all killing, even in a war?  Or do you believe we are not really in a war on Islamic terrorist hell-bent on destroying our country?  Or do you just criticize everything associated with Obama without any intellectual honesty?

      • RMSK

        RMSK

  • Bruce

    Great discussion by the guests esp. dealing with the implications of the Greek crisis one of which would seem to be the following:  “be careful what you wish for…it could come true.”  I’m referring to the total embrace of globalization–one of the many legacies of Ronald Reagan & his team of laissez-faire, free trade zealots. 

    The interdependence created by globalization (as distinct from international trade with rule of law and reciprocity) has increased the vulnerability of our financial institutions to the failures and volatility in overseas markets just as it has increased the risk and exposure of foreign countries to the failures and abuses within the U.S. financial system (e.g. subprime mortgage debacle).

    When our housing bubble burst, the impact was felt not only in the U.S., but also throughout the world.  It is abundantly clear that today our economic future and prosperity are more dependent on investors, governments and finance ministers of foreign countries than at any other time in our history.  The existence of sovereign wealth funds and the position the’ve held within our most venerable financial institutions is a reminder of this downside of globalization. 

    There are, of course, other negative effects of globalization like the “race to the bottom” it has initiated along with an exodus of jobs and industries from the U.S. to other countries.   

    Maybe a future program could delve into solutions.   

    • Bruce

      Correction needed for above:  “our most venerable financial institutions” was intended to read “our once venerable financial institutions” 

      I certainly did not mean to suggest there is much to venerate or revere in our financial institutions today.

    • William

      Clinton is a big free trader..he pushed hard for the approval of NAFTA. Obama is a big free trader and he pushed hard for the free trade agreement with South Korea.

      • Bruce

        Correct, Clinton pushed NAFTA, AND he signed the bill, spearheaded by Republicans, deregulating parts of the financial industry.  I believe many traditional liberals left his administration as a result.  And in some of his actions were sown the seeds of the financial meltdown we witnessed in 2008.  

        Be that as it may, the DEREGULATION, FREE TRADE and supply-side TAX-CUTTING FRENZY had their origins in the Reagan years.   As a so-called neo-liberal, Clinton advanced some of this agenda, but not all of it.  Most notably he raised taxes and balanced the budget unlike his delusional predecessor Reagan.

        The trade deal with S. Korea will open markets to U.S. producers and is probably a win-win.  The difference in trade policy under Obama seems to be that he will insist on having agreements with trading partners that promote our mutual interests and a respect for human rights. 

  • Jack Marshak

    Dog wars escalate: Barack Obama ate dog meat

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/17/dog-wars-obama-dog_n_1433223.html

    So what’s worse, making your dog ride on the roof, or eating your dog?

    • DemocratPartyBlows

      I belive the Car Talk guys have a recipe for cooking dog on your engine block as you drive.

      • Jack Marshak

        Question,

        When lefties read your vey unique moniker, should they take it as a compliment?

        • Terry Tree Tree

          It’s a ‘service’ she/he offers to Democrats?

          • Jack Marshak

            No need to worry Terry TT,

            I don’t think he’s after your job.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            You post that slur, Why?

        • RMSK

          RMSK

      • RMSK

        RMSK

    • Azra

      Did Mitt eat his dog? How can that be? Seamus chimes in every now and again, for his good cause. (From the geat beyond?) I heard that the Romneys gave him away to a GOOD home, because Seamus kept running away from theirs.

      • TomK in Boston

        If Etcha ate his dog, he’s claim it as a capital gain.

      • RMSK

        RMSK

    • Terry Tree Tree

      MANY millitary personnel, and tourists, in other countries are convinced that they have been fed dog, cat, horse, and other ‘pet’ animals. 
        ARE you saying that President Obama eats dog, NOW?
        OR are you referring to a short term in his childhood, or teen years, where he had little choice?

      • Azra

        He’s saying that someone ate his pet dog. Since Bo still resides at the Whirte House, we’re left to assume that Mitt ate Seamus.

    • RMSK

      RMSK

  • http://riversong.wordpress.com/ Robert Riversong

    At least the PACmen got the name right: “The Defeat of Barack Hussein Obama: The Ricketts Plan to End His Spending for Good.”

    For Republicans, since Reagan, no government spending for the good of the American citizenry is allowed.

    • Azra

      Nothing for the good of the American citizenry is allowed.

  • TomK in Boston

    I wonder why we can’t evaluate policies based on results?

    We start an experiment on voodoo econ, tax cuts and deregulation, in 1980, and all the wealth redistributes to the top, culminating in the Bush crash. We should conclude it was a mistake and correct it, but all we hear from the right is demands for more of the same. Insanity!

    The Euros respond to a financial crisis by making priority #1 reducing deficits with austerity and all that happens is an effing meltdown with worse deficits We should conclude that obsessing over deficits is a bad idea, but all we hear from the right is the horrors of the big bad deficit. Insane!

    The only economists who have a clue about dealing with depressions are Keynes and his followers. Our future depends on adopting their policies and throwing out the voodoo. 

    But never forget, while voodoo econ is a horrible failure for most, it’s not a “failure” – it works great for the oligarchs! IMO it’s really camouflaged class warfare, and it’s doing what it’s supposed to do, transferring wealth to the top. Don’t believe it? Just look at the facts, the income changes of the different percentiles since 1980.

    • Markus

      For the sake of the argument, I’ll ignore the comment that it was Bush’s crash. Both sides of congress voted for the wars, Frank helped Fannie and Freddie drop their standards, all of them ran up the budget. Amazing we’re still at the point where some think it’s the fault of the other guys.

      As for policies based on results, injecting a ton of dough into the economy by Bush and Obama is largely a Keynsian idea that is continued today. After this happened, unemployment went up over 10% and now hovers over 8 (though I think much higher because of those that have given up and are not measured). I’ve never heard those on the left in any way question whether the principle was the right one, only that not enough money was spent.

      Personally, I think it’s simplistic to say that Keynes should be doubted because it didn’t seem to work in this case. There are too many variables. But I think the same is true of the linkage between tax cuts, etc. on the crash.

      • TomK in Boston

        You’re overreacting. The crash occurred during the Bush presidency, hence “Bush crash”. If you want to get into the question of who was responsible, it’s all the deregulators and fools who believed in “self regulating markets”, including Clinton and his appointees.

        I assume you realize that there are no instant recoveries from crashes. The evidence is that injecting a ton of dough, watered down with ideological tax cuts, changed the TREND of job losses very strongly. It amazes me that anyone could look at this widely circulated graph and say “failed stimulus”

        http://eagereyes.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/obama-job-loss-chart-600×334.png

        It drives me crazy. We can borrow for almost zero interest, we desperately need jobs, new infrastructure, and could use something like a new moon project, which provided so much new technology…and all the right wants to talk about is cuts.

      • Zero

         I have said since it happened that the economy would be much better today if Bush forced the banks to refinance bad mortgages and loans in TARP, but he just handed the money over without any stipulations.  Bush could have also forced the CEOs and Executives to take smaller salaries and no bonuses. 

        But nonetheless, the stimulus did work because GDP was contracting at 8% before 8 other banks were about to collapse.  Moral hazard was not an option. 

  • IgotDaBoomBoomDatUwant

    It was nice the day before yesterday when we had a conversation with a derth of polarized dingbats spewing their polarized idiocy everywhere.

    But I see the dingbats for both poles are back with a vengeance today.
    The result: hardly anything worth reading, just a waste of time these dingbats spewing their idiocy over everything repeating the same idiotic polar opinions that we have hear a thousand times and do nothing but fall entirely into the trap set by the power elite to divide and conquer.

    Really if this is what you people actually think and feel — you deserve exactly what you have politically.  The rule by corporate thieves and criminals, who have put you all in extreme debt.

    • RMSK

      You are correct sir. 
      As a public service I will now go through all the posts and mark all dingbat reflex responses with the following acronym:

      RMSK     –  Reactionary Mind in the Service of Knee-jerk

      So more fully human entities can save time by skipping the neural cacophony generated by mechanisms that say “I” and believe they are conscious and capable of coherent reason but whose posts PROVE the opposite.

      • RMSK

        RMSK

        • Kit23

          RMSK

    • RememberHypathia

      WuTan Clan right?  I love that song.  I never thought I would hear a hip hop song with a banjo in it, and Britany Spears — and it’s good.
      In fact even though I haven’t heard it for years I now can’t get it out of my head, guess I will have to find my mp3 and give it a listen.

  • at

    The killing in Florida was tragic, This one is beyond reason, beyond tragic, beyond excuse, criminal, committed by police who demonstrated their racism on tape before murdering this man.  No Outrage here — I wonder why

    This man was murdered because he refused to submit to a moron’s sense of authority, and that is the only reason he was murdered.  So far as I can determine, no charges have been filed.

    http://www.democracynow.org/2012/3/29/killed_at_home_white_plains_ny

    • Still Here

      Was he violently high at the time?

      • ParsonSimtex

        Follow the link and learn

        • Still Here

          Democracynow sounds like some sort of virus den, i’ll pass.

          • jefe68

            I guess you’re into sites with names such as totalitarianism now.

          • Yjytimmmy

            RMSK

          • nj_v2

            ^ Blurring the line between ignorance and stupidity.

      • TFRX

        Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

    • at

      Forgive me folks I put the wrong link up for the Chamberlan murder.  Here is the one with the actual recordings of what happened.  Also contains the vidfeo from the tazer he was shot with. This man’s medic alert recorded the entire incident including the cop who shot him saying “Open this door you fu#ken’ nigg*er.” It is sad to hear this person pleading with them to leave him alone. Telling them over and over that he is afraid they will kill him if he opens the door.

      Then they take down the door and killed him.  For his own welfare I imagine, since this whole thing started with an accidental medic alert alarm.

      You will find it quite clear that this man was murdered because he would not submit to the police’s need to dominate via their misplace sense of authority.

      A federal investigation has just been opened over this.
      Better late than never.  Record all dealings with the police.  Unless you happen to be a protestor then it is illegal for you to photograph police in some cases.

      http://www.democracynow.org/2012/5/4/kenneth_chamberlain_sr_as_charges_ruled

  • mmaaaxx

    “Germany is right morally, but wrong economically” – Jack Beatty

    Nicely put Jack and hopefully we all know that the morally correct path is the one that should be taken…a good parallel in the states too.

    • Zing

       Jack Beatty: arbiter of morality.

      • mmaaaxx

         Ha, I can’t tell if you are being sarcastic or not!

        I respect Beatty’s knowledge and intellectual honesty, although I disagree on some of the broad views of morality, psychology, etc.

      • nj_v2

        Zing(less): Useless waster of bandwidth.

  • TFRX

    AZ Secretary of State Ken Bennett now says he’s not convinced Barack Obama was really born in the United States and so he is threatening to keep the president off the ballot in November.

    “I believe the president was born in Hawaii — or at least I hope he was,” says Bennett.

    Personally, I believe Sec’y Bennett is not a child-molester–or at leash I hope he isn’t. But I hear people are saying things to the contrary.

    • Azra

      Who cares? They just get increasinly more bizarre. Must be the water.

      • Zing

         What’s your excuse…the alcohol ?

        • nj_v2

          Another 1.5 seconds of my life i’ll never get back from reading one of Zing-less’ posts.

          As horrid as they otherwise were, the old AOL discussion forums used to have a feature that allowed one to ignore as many handles as one wanted. Enter the handle onto a list, and, presto, none of that handles posts would appear on the screen.

          Disqus needs such a feature.

          • TFRX

            A zinger is supposed to be pithy, meaty and short.

            One out of three is only admirable if one is batting cleanup.

  • Still Here

    I think Obama hasn’t found a church in DC because he hasn’t found a pastor that hates America as much as Wright did.

    • Zero

      That’s rich.

    • TomK in Boston

      Hating America is refusing to pay the taxes that make America possible.

      Ryan is more dangerous than bin Laden ever was.

      • Still Here

        Spoken like a parasite.

        • TomK in Boston

          That’s me, a high income workaholic parasite who knows my taxes are a joke.

          • Still Here

            You’re the joke.

          • TomK in Boston

            I know it’s friday, but it’s still a bit early to be hammered.

          • Still Here

            Nope still working to pay for your free psychiatric care.  

          • jefe68

            Really, working you say. So are being payed for how many times you can respond with some mindless rhetorical pap.

          • Ttterry

            RMSK

        • Zero

          “…parasite”…so says the Social Darwinist.  Might want to read a history book because you are revealing a temperament that has popped its ugly head for time to time. 

        • Jyfboy

          RMSK

        • jefe68

          Mindless prattle. 

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

        Ryan is an overly ambitious stooge of corporate money. A bought off whore.

        • Still Here

          Another ignorant Democrat whore.

          • Rob45

            RMSK

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

            Vulgar and adolescent name calling is the best you can do??  Hardly builds your case…how very predictable.

            I am not a Democrat, maybe moderately bright, but certainly not a whore. Not that with the right guy, and the right time I wouldn’t give it serious thought.

          • TFRX

            You are leftwards of some ever-shifting, ill-defined line which only StillHere can see.

            Lucky he called you a merely Democrat instead of a full-blown communist.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

            Sorry pal, off target a bit. As an Independent and Progressive I am left of center on social issues, and a conservative on business, finance and immigration. I am never hobbled by dogma….racial, theological, or political.

          • TFRX

            Excuse how my inexact phrasing hid my point. I’m a lefty, and I’m not calling you a dogmatic anything, and I don’t care particularly.

            My contention is that StillHere has some imaginary criteria which you failed by being not dogmatically rightwing enough.

            Therefor he called you the second-worst thing he could think of, a Democrat. You are lucky he didn’t call you a Communist.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

            Pay no attention to rightist nonsense and drivel. All they can come up with are insults and empty slogans. Enough to make Frank Luntz cry.

          • UdirtyRatHmmm

            RMSK

        • TomK in Boston

          Good summary.

      • bellavida

        What a succinct and poignant comment.  I could not have said that better myself.  

    • CJY

      RMSK

  • TomK in Boston

    Amusing this week has been righty “small gvt” hypocrite kurt schilling begging RI for more subsidies for his company. These self-proclaimed galt types all run to mommy government at the first sign of trouble, just like the rugged individuals who don’t want health insurance run to the ER on our dime.

  • Still Here

    Democrats want to punish job creators.  That’s apparently their economic plan.  We are doomed!

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

      Another Republican lie and propaganda.

    • Zero

      There are a host of things wrong with what you are saying.

      (1) An individual tax is not a business tax.
      (2) 39% tax rate no where near a “punishing tax rate.”
      (3) What is wrong with taxing ‘job creators’ to actually create jobs?

      (4) 1% of small business owners are millionaire’s.
      (5) If a small business owner is taking home over $250,000 out of the surplus of the business account, then that business owner can endure a small tax hike out of his individual account and not the business account. (Obama has actually lowered taxes for small business.)
      (6) Small businesses hire if the employee will produce enough to cover the cost of the labor, i.e., it doesn’t matter how rich or poor anyone is.  The only way a small business owner can save money by firing people is by taking the place of the employee; otherwise, a business owner would lose money if he or she fired an employee that was covering the cost of labor.

      (7) If the business is struggling yet the owner is taking $250,000 or more out of the business account for his personal finance, then the business owner is an idiot and should go under.  

      Are you done being an idiot? 

      • TomK in Boston

        All true, Zero, but you might be giving a serious response to a ‘bot.

        • Zero

          I’m just stick of this republican hive mind.

          • Sam Walworth

            I simply cannot understand/fathom the people who simply want to follow this idiocacy promoted by Faux News and company..

      • Zing

         You’re projecting all your biased ideas into someones simple statement…he owns you

        • Zero

          All he is doing is regurgitating republican platitudes like the mindless idiot he is.  All you are doing is ignoring an argument because you are too dimwitted to engage and to afraid to at least entertain what I have said more or less ruminate on them.

          “…all your biased ideas…” at least I have ideas and they aren’t necessarily biased because those who disagree can’t formulate a counterargument. 

          Keep running away from arguments, chickenshit.

    • GeneNightwatch

      RMSK

    • Sam Walworth

      Could you or anyone who proudly states that Democrats have policy that “punishs the job creators” explain to me how is a job creator “punished” by these policies?

      E.g. John Chambers doesnt really care what the tax rate of California is, because of the Silicon Valley, Cisco is based in San Jose area similarly, Apple, Oracle, etc on the same note, JP Morgan Chase doesnt really care what the tax policy of London is, because its the econmic hub of Europe, they and most of the Banks are based out of London.

      If tax rates are increased (in the US) these companies will still create jobs as long as demand is there, and yes, the people who claim that its the small business who will get hurt a lot because if the Congress allow the Bush Tax cuts to be expired, then they need to find a BETTER Tax Accountant, because US Tax Code is full of loop holes that it really doesnt matter whats the tax rate is, the effective tax rate will be always lower.

      • Azra

        No, they can never explain. They can only imitate their idols, (who also cannot explain), and repeat this rubbish, much like parrots, but that I have a feeling that parrots may have a better understanding of what they’re taught to say.

  • TomK in Boston

    Here’s a more complete employment chart. Anyone who denies that the stimulus didn’t change the trend from Bush for the better is dishonest.

    http://leftcall.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/unemployment-bush-v-obama.jpg

    • Still Here

      Now put up a chart of those who have given up looking for work over the past four years because they are so frustrated by the Obama economy.

      • Zero

        The chart also shows “jobs created” and “jobs lost” on the bar graph.  What do you make of that?

        And I wonder what unemployment would look like if republicans hadn’t fired 600,000 public employees.  I wonder what 600,000 public employees would do for demand in the private markets right now….

      • Gregg

        Here it is (those Bush numbers look dreamy now):

        http://portalseven.com/employment/unemployment_rate_u6.jsp

    • Gregg

      One would think by looking at that graph there are more people working than when President Obama was sworn in. There are still (after over 3 years and $5 trillion in debt) over half a million fewer people working than were working on that glorious day.

      First, the merits of your premise: Cool. But c’mon man, a $787 billion TARP bailout (half of which was Obama’s doing as Bush gets the entire deficit tallied on his watch) plus a $814 billion “stimulus” barfed into the economy damn well should do something. Shouldn’t it? But it’s not sustainable, it didn’t fix squat after all is said and done, and now we have the debt. Not only that, but our collective work ethic is atrophying.

      To the extent the unemployment rate has gone down, realize this truth: Less people looking for work combined with less available jobs means a lower unemployment rate. It’s math. “Still Here” (below) is right.

      http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

    • TomK in Boston

      OOps, I mean Anyone who denies that the stimulus DID change the trend from Bush for the better is dishonest.

       Look, I understand you righties. I know you have to follow your ideology and attack the President regardless of the facts. I know you have to spin any favorable numbers till white becomes black, no matter how dizzy you get in the process. It’s OK. 

       
       The Clinton surplus was turned into the Bush deficit by tax cuts, wars, and an economic crash caused by ideological deregulation of the financial sector. The Bush crash also trashed everything, including employment.

       Anyone who is not an ideological robot will agree that the economy has momentum. When BHO took the oath, the momentum was full speed DOWN. The tax cuts and wars were still in place, amping up the deficit, and the crash was further reducing tax revenues and increasing use of the safety net, amping up the deficit. Yet you guys will put everything that happened from day 1 of BHO on him. I understand it’s normal politics, but, sorry, it makes no economic sense. You’re saying “You aren’t cleaning up our mess fast enough”.

       So what is BHO’s responsibility? I’m not a huge fan, BTW. It’s obvious from the chart that the stimulus had a good effect. The problem is that, because he’s a timid centrist and because the right fights him every step, it’s not enough. He should open a firehose of gvt spending – geez, we can borrow for nothing. There should be a construction project on every corner and something like a big national moon project. There should be foreclosure relief. Low interest loans and grants for startups and small business. We can worry about the deficit later, starting with big cuts in military spending and big tax hikes at the top.

       As zero says, a big part of the jobs picture is the gvt layoffs, over 600,000. You want that, right? Gvt service is not a “real” job in the rand universe. So you’ll bash gvt and then bash BHO over employment figures that include gvt job losses. Disgusting, but again, I understand. One simple step to get the economy going wd be enough aid to the states so they could re-hire.

      • Gregg

        The tech bubble popped in March of 2000. Bush inherited a recession. The center of the financial universe was annihilated on 9/11. The unemployment rate dropped for 53 months after the tax cuts. Revenue increase by over a half trillion in four years. 

        I’m not sure why you didn’t include these facts in your diatribe. How ideologically shallow is it to still be blaming Bush and the tax cuts Obama refused to let expire?

        • Zero

          Bush didn’t inherit a recession; GDP never contracted.  Second, revenues didn’t increase: you can look at the revenue to GDP ratio and it falls almost every year under Bush, which means revenues would have been higher under Clinton tax rates.

          Obama didn’t want the tax cuts to expire because it would raise taxes on the consumer class during a demand-crippled economy.  It doesn’t escape the fact that it is economically sound to raise taxes on the rich. 

          • Gregg

            GDP did contact in the first and third quarters on 2001. I’ll give you this: The definition of recession is murky. I always thought it was two consecutive quarters of negative growth. By that definition this current recession ended in 2009. Clinton says it was a recession and takes blame. That’s good enough for me.

            http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/chatterbox/2009/05/bill_clintons_classy_moment.html

            Revenues did increase by a half a trillion dollars. The GDP ratio is irrelevant and your claims about Clinton’s tax rates are fantasy in a static world. The fact is, the dot com bubble’s inflation and bursting were real. It matters.

            The ONLY reason the top rate was not raised is there were not enough Democrat votes despite majorities in both Houses.

      • William

        If tax cuts were so bad why did Obama keep them in place when he took office? He had the majority in Congress? Then he extended them and cut taxes that support Social Security. It seems odd that a party that hates tax cuts fully embraced them.

        • Azra

          Aparently, you were on a space mission, or something, during that debacle, but hazard a wild guess as to why the taxes weren’t allowed to expire, as intended from the inception.

  • RobertLongView

    “I can’t find the Nick Hanauer talk on Ted Talks. Maybe they took it down again?” 
     ”Ryssdal: You can see Nick’s talk about income inequality – click here. We called Chris Anderson of TED, by the way. Didn’t want to talk.”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bBx2Y5HhplI
    Straight Talk from a true Modern Day Patriot about job creators.  

    • Zero

      Here’s another TED talk on what income inequality does to societies:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ7LzE3u7Bw

      • at

         Also excellent.  This should be mandatory viewing for all our beloved less liberal posters.

    • ClemetMcCoy

      Excellent link — thanks

  • Jack Marshak

    Obama’s N.D.A.A. military detention law blocked by N.Y. judge

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-16/military-detention-law-blocked-by-new-york-judge.html

    It’s going to be really hard for Obama to follow the Constitution, he’d much rather be a dictator.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

      Rightist lies.

      • Jack Marshak

        Tell that to the judge who blocked it.

        Let me guess, the judge is part of the vast right wing conspiracy as well, right?

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

          Check under your own bed dude, not mine.

          • Jack Marshak

            Why Would anybody be against the kind of police state that Obama created when he signed the N.D.A.A.?

            I hear the North Koreans really love their police state.

            Four more years of Obama, and America will become North Korea.

            But lefties like yourself would no doubt love that.

            Adios Komrade.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

            More EMPTY slogans.

          • Jack Marshak

            “Hope and Change”.

            It doesn’t get any emptier than that.

          • Azra

            Still in his first term, he has already kept most of his campaign promises, made countless changes.

            Things he hasn’t yet achieved, are mostly due to Republicans’ oath, to do whatever they have to, to ensure that America will fail.

            Romney hasn’t even promised any change. His promises only threaten that he will finish what Dubya started, and shove America down that slippery slope, once and for all.

            Hope? He doesn’t even pretend on that one. We all know how hopeless things would be if he became President; we’ve been there before. Who wants to live through, (if you can call that living), a rerun of those diabolical Bush II years? All in favor . . .

  • augluc
    • TomK in Boston

      “Tax cuts, 2 wars on the CC and an economic crash” is a lot simpler.
      Please don’t forget, Bush started with a surplus.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

        The historic and monumental crimes and blunders of George Bush have all been conviently “forgotten” by the right. My guess is that in 10 years he will be cannonized as a saint by these Republican fools. Especially if Frank Dunce..err Luntz, can attach an empty slogan for his cannonization effort.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          A saint, in the Roman Child-Molesters’ church?

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

            Why not?  A prince among mollesters, I say.

      • augluc

        The
        point is: you don’t need surplus. Federal Debt is private sector wealth.  Creating
        surplus = reducing private  wealth. Please try to read the paper and you will see
        how this equation plays out very clearly. 
        The problem is not the federal debt but how the wealth is distributed
        insider the private sector. 

        • TomK in Boston

          OK, sorry, makes sense.

      • William

        And don’t forget out of control spending by Bush and now Obama.

        • Azra

          One difference: President Obama’s spending was NECESSARY.

          Without it, he never would have been able to turn the Economy around.

          • Azra

            Also, President Obama’s spending is VERY contolled, and very thoroughly thought through.

      • Azra

        You left out the UNPAID-FOR Medicare prescription drugs benefit, with an estimated ten-year cost of $395,000,000,000.00 to $720,000,000,000.00; not exactly chicken feed.

  • TomK in Boston

    Here’s another chart for the righties to spin. There is already more pvt sector job growth under BHO than in the entire 2 bush terms. Funny how Etchasketch’s big plan is to return to same old same old, huh?

    http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/05/18/opinion/051812krugman1/051812krugman1-blog480.jpg

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

      The right wing nuts will reject any facts unless they come with some catchy, but meaningless, slogan. Drill, baby drill.

      • Gregg

        “Drill baby drill” would solve a lot more problems than “Hope and Change” or “Yes we can” did. 

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

          Open wide and swallow…the propaganda.  Go have afternoon tea with Frank Dunce, errr…Luntz. You seem ot love his lies.

          • Gregg

            I have no idea what you are talking about. Frank Luntz?

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

            Dunce err, Luntz…is a Republican stooge and spin doctor. He comes up with all of the empty slogans ya’ll rightists love to vomit up. Worthless and meaningless stuff, which does not serve the interests of the Nation or our political system..but you folks eat it up like ambrosia. As I said, open wide and swallow… Drill baby..drill.

          • Gregg

            I know who Luntz is, I just don’t know what he has to do with “Hope and Change”, “Yes we Can”, “Forward” or for that matter “Drill baby drill”. Never mind.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

            Sorry it passed ya by dude.

          • Zero
        • Zero

          You know who would have turned the economy around by now: Sarah Palin.  Too bad McCain didn’t get elected and bit the big one so she can rape every natural resource until we run out and America is behind every country in renewable energy.  

          • Gregg

            Take the McCain death fantasy back Zero, it’s unseemly.

            Sarah Palin would be awesome as Secretary of Interior or head of the EPA. She has a sterling record as a great steward of our national resources.

            And speaking of the economy and oil:

            http://www.environmentaltrends.org/single/article/where-the-jobs-are.html

          • Zero

            I do not wish McCain dead.  I wish the republican party would move to his ideological disposition.  Thus, I want him to be around and have his voice in the mainstream more often.

            Second, Sarah Palin would be awesome as a Store Clerk.  What pisses me off most about this country is that stupid people become ridiculously rich for being stupid.  One truth always remains: “You will never go broke in America by appealing to the lowest common denominator.”

          • Gregg

            Now you’re just being blindedly hateful. It must be ideology. Sarah Palin is an extremely capable woman. I remember a reporter asking Newt about her qualifications and he compared her record to Obama. It was clear. I’ll find it, be right back.

          • Gregg
      • William

        I really like the latest Liberal spin “White-Hispanic” or Obamas “evolving” idea about gay marriage…

    • Worried for the country(MA)

       TomK, here is an honest analysis of the jobs data (instead of a bar chart which excludes the 1st year of the Presidency).  It shows ALL the data for both Presidencies.

      The most troubling statistic is the labor participation rate in the current Obama economy is at a record post WWII low.

      http://reflectionsofarationalrepublican.com/2012/04/06/bush-vs-obama-unemployment-march-2012-jobs-data/

      • TomK in Boston

        Worried, like I said, I know you have to spin. I know that if you’re shown  something that goes against your ideology, you have to change the subject. Go ahead, it’s OK.

        BTW the chart shows the data both with and without the 1′st year, but to know that you’d have to actually see it, and I know you can’t see anything that is good for BHO.

        • Worried for the country(MA)

           I wasn’t the one spinning.

          Romney is for the ‘same old; same old’.  That is the job creation rate under Reagan.

          We will all benefit from that.

          • Fredlinskip

              What immediately followed Reagan’s “feed the rich” tax policies? Biggest recession since depression.

            There was no “job creation” under Reagan  administration until interest rates were lowered by Federal Reserve Chairman Volcker from the low 20′s to Volcker to 7.5%.

            Look it up some time.

            “Voodoo economics”, begun under Bedtime for Bonzo, and GOP myths about Reagan are at the core of this country’s problems today.

            IMHO

    • William

      If Obama is doing so well why are there so many people unemployed?

      • Azra

        There are numerous reasons, (including world economy, earthquakes, tsunami), but, most glaringly obvious, are the refusal of the 1% to create jobs, to rehire, put people back to work, and other things they would be doing under a Republican administration. It was the pact that fat cats made with Mitch McConnell, where they also vowed to make America fail, so they would, once again, be allowed to run amock, and do even more damage to the fabric of our country.

        We can’t overlook the hundreds of thousands of Americans who lost their jobs after the Tea Party Takeover, and their reign of terror is just beginning.

    • Azra

      Funny, but very predictable.

      • http://chondeal.com/ khuyen mai

        yes, obviosly

  • at

    Here is a documentary about the root of all our problems that I somehow missed. 

    A documentary about the galaxy magnitude theft we call the financial disaster of 08.

    It hasn’t gone away those who further magnified their already absurd levels of wealth by destroying retirement funds with their clearly criminal intent and actions, are free, and continuing to do everything they can to enrich themselves by subverting the fabric of your lives — even if you have no investments and have never been anywhere that doesn’t smell like cow-poop.

    I found the info about the real estate bubble in Dubai to be fascinating and is really not covered in any other documentaries on this deflection of our national destiny due to financial manipulations by a few obscenely wealthy sociopaths and the families that support them.

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXxeaQ4mW24

    • at

       For those who still do not understand what the real problem is: Inside Job is the documentary to watch if you are only going to watch one.  It is the most interesting and easiest for the uninformed to understand. Plus Jason Borne is the narrator ; }

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqWHP7OuAj4

  • Jack Marshak

    Arizona’s Secretary of State threatens to keep Obama off the ballot
    http://www.infowars.com/arizonas-secretary-of-state-threatens-to-keep-president-obama-off-the-ballot-unless-he-sees-a-birth-certificate/

    Either way, Obama is going to be voted out of office in November.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

      More of your formerly “wet” dreams….

      • Jack Marshak

        Sorry Sherlock, it’s the truth

        your failed, socialist President will be out of a job come November.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

          I would be surprised indeed if you and your slogan doctors even know what a socialist is. All you folks know are empty words and Frank Dunce slogans. Ya’ll have the intellectual depth of the shine on a new car.

          • Jack Marshak

            I’m reminded of what a socialist is, every time your President opens his mouth and another big fat lie comes out.

          • Zero

            Go back to your republican echo-chamber.  Your unsubstantiated criticisms are distracting conversations with people who have I.Q.s above room temperature.

          • Jack Marshak

            Your name is Zero?

            Very appropriate,

            it matches your IQ.

          • Azra

            I KNOW YOU ARE, BUT WHAT AM I?

            Pee Wee Herman

          • Azra

            Aren’t you people at all embarassed by your astounding ignorance?

            How difficult would it be to consult an encyclopedia, and learn what a socialist is? While you’re there, you can also look up fascism, and totalitarianism, so you will stop making such fools of yourselves.

          • Jack Marshak

            Who is going to be able to afford a new car if Obama gets re-elected?

            14 million Americans have gone on food stamps since he became President.

          • Zero

            Even more under president Bush.

          • Jack Marshak

            Obama has only been President for three years,

            Bush was President for eight.

            Give Barry some time, at least he’ll be able to beat Bush in something.

          • Zero

            More people entered into the food stamp program under Bush than any president since the great depression.  Obama’s numbers ain’t anywhere near Bush’s. 

            But I’m with you: let’s cut the safety net because history shows that punishing the poor causes revolutions, and I’m tired of your republican bs that is completely ignorant of history and the economic implications of cutting from the consumer class in a demand-crippled economy.

          • Azra

            No wonder these people vote Republican.

          • Zero

            You know who was a socialist?  Dwight D. Eisenhower.  That guy taxed the hell out of the rich a paid a bunch of people to lay down our national highway.  Well, I say no thanks.  I’ll drive on roads that existed before the income tax thank you very much.

        • Azra

          Do you have all the rigged voting machines to back up your claim?

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Aren’t states supposedly getting rid of those proven-vulnerable electronic voting machines?
               Diebold claimed they ‘couldn’t be rigged’, and they were proven to be rather easy to rig?
               Diebold executives should REFUND ALL the money they got as executives, the money spent spreading their lies about impregnability, and the advertising for their crap machines, PLUS pay to install REAL voting machines, where they replaced them?

    • TFRX

      That birther crap just can’t be washed out of some bigots.

      “I believe the president was born in Hawaii — or at least I hope he was,” says AZ Secy State Bennett.

      I personally believe you when you say you don’t have carnal relations with farmyard animals, Jack Marshak. At least I hope you don’t.

      But reasonable people are raising reasonable sounding claims to the contrary, and it would be irresponsible for me to not pass that knowledge along.

      • Jack Marshak

        If I ever do feel the need to have carnal relations with a farmyard animal TFRX, I’ll make sure I give you a call.

        • TFRX

          That doesn’t sound like a denial.

          No wonder there are so many rumors about you out there.

          • Jack Marshak

            Are you talking about Obama being born in Kenya.

            Sorry Sherlock, that’s the truth, not a rumor.

          • Azra

            What’s wrong with being born in Kenya?

        • Brett

          Jack, you would not have to continue such a perverse practice with farm animals, if that has been the case. In addition, calling someone, anyone (it doesn’t have to be TFRX), when you feel such aforementioned urges, is probably a good idea to help you refrain from acting out such urges. I applaud anyone’s attempt to develop strategies and supports in breaking such cycles of perversion; and, remember, it’s one day at a time! 

      • William

        The “birthers” are just like the Liberal “9-11″ Truthers”…people looking for the 15 minutes of fame.

        • TFRX

          Leave it to you to not get it.

          The birthers are a big part of what a righty needs to win.

          Truthers are liberals only? And Dems “need” them? Har dee har.

      • Azra

        Other than the fact that he doesn’t want to risk having President Obama win another election, what is the alleged reason for Bennett’s problem with voters’ rights?

        • Roy Mac

          I think Bennett is up for re-election this year, and doesn’t want to go back to actual work after having had such a cushy job, blowing teabaggers in Arizona.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

      More rightest tripe.

      • Jack Marshak

        Is that why Obama lost the West Virginia democratic primary to a guy sitting in jail?
         
        All those registered WV democrats who voted in their state’s primary must have been part of the ‘vast right wing conspiracy’ as well, right?

        • Roy Mac

          Yes, the guy in jail in Texas received 40% of the WVA votes cast in the Dem primary; however, President Obama received the other 60%–that is hardly losing.  60-40 is generally considered to be a landslide victory.

        • TFRX

          “Lost”? The same way Mondale beat Reagan?

          You’ve got a math and a language problem which the mere internet can’t fix.

        • Brett

          In reply to your second question: no, the WV folks who voted in their state’s Democratic primary were part of a long history of inbreeding.

          • Brett

            You failed to mention that the Texas inmate got 49,490 votes in the Democratic primary (Obama: 105,854) and Romney received 75,402 in the Republican primary.

            Looks like Obama got more votes than Romney; perhaps even more telling is the fact that Romney got only 25,912 more votes than the Texas inmate.

            Given the substance of your commentary, in general, one might ask, Jack, are you from West Virginia? 

          • Jack Marshak

            I didn’t know you lived in WV Bert!

    • Roy Mac

      Sec’y Bennett received emails from 12   birther whackos and that is his justification for commencing an investigation into the birthers’ claims.  As of this morning, the AZ sec’y has received more than 5000 emails demanding that he investigate the claim that Willard M. Romney is, in fact, a unicorn.

    • Brett

      This says more about political figures in Arizona than it does about Obama…On this forum, you’ve now maligned both Arizona and West Virginia in the past two days–hey, not that I am particularly compelled to defend either state, but is this really what you wish to say in your comments?  

  • Gregg
  • at

    The latest from Bernie; one of the few good guys on the hill.

    http://www.bernie.org/uncategorized/break-up-the-big-banks/#scroll

    • Zero

      I wish there were more voices like his in the mainstream media.   “…Wall Street is regulating Congress…” brilliant!

  • Zero

    Dear Republicans,

    Your criticisms of job creation are disingenuous to say the least.  Republicans have fired 600,000 public employees, and they blocked a jobs bill that would tax the ballooning bank accounts of the people who are supposed to be the ‘job creators.’

    If you really cared about jobs, then you would want to tax the ‘job creators’ to actually create jobs.  Otherwise, you don’t care.  All you care about is that large amounts of wealth pools in a few people’s bank accounts.

    And I wonder what all those public jobs would have done for demand in the private markets….

    Are you done?  Are you ready to join the other team?  Or are you going to give a frail reply, to which you have already heard my counter, to which you have no reply…?  Get over your ideology.

    • Gregg

      “Republicans have fired 600,000 public employees”. 

      Disingenuous?

      “If you really cared about jobs, then you would want to tax the ‘job
      creators’ to actually create jobs.  Otherwise, you don’t care.  All you
      care about is that large amounts of wealth pools in a few people’s bank
      accounts.”

      So support tax hikes or you don’t care? That is such BS! Why on earth would our only concern be to pad pockets? Have you thought this through?

      “And I wonder what all those public jobs would have done for demand in the private markets….”

      Supply comes first and government has no product.

      “Get over your ideology.”

      Gag me with a jackhammer. Pot meet kettle.

      • Zero

         ”Why on earth would our only concern be to pad pockets?”

        Um, how can an economy function when the consumer class doesn’t have money to spend in the market place?   Is it more important to you that a few people keep vast amounts of wealthy than helping the majority of the country?

        “Supply comes first and government has no product.” 

        First off, supply and capital are very high right now, while labor is low.  Second, education, protection (against crime and fires), and roads are government’s products.  Healthcare should be a not-for-profit product as well, but that’s a different conversation.  The economy is really hurting because the construction industry is in the dump.  There are too many houses and population doesn’t catch up until 2014.  Now, doesn’t it make sense for government to put the construction industry to work in the meantime?  Why did republicans block that?

        600,000 public employees fired by republicans…disingenuous….  Not if republicans block all efforts to get them rehired.

        Do you want to try again? 

        • Gregg

          You wrote: “All you are about is that large amounts of wealth pools in a few people’s bank accounts.”
          Why on earth would that be a concern? It’s silly.

          Government will have to manage some how at spending levels below 20% of GDP. The economy is hurting because of Obama and all he stands for.

          The recession is the reason for those jobs lost. Republicans fired no one. It’s shallow and disingenuous. 

          • Zero

            The more financially equal a society, the more balance supply and demand is.  That’s why you can’t have a few amount of people having most of the nation’s wealth. 

            Second, it wouldn’t be spending per se, because the spending is paid for with new taxes on money that is currently out of the economy and sitting in bank accounts. 

            There is plenty of money to put people to work.  The ratio of corporate wealth-to-wages is the same as right before the great depression.

            There is no demand!  You do believe in this thing called demand, right?  You do believe that it is the most important aspect of any business, right?

            All the bad people throughout history have let a few amount of people be rich while the rest of the nation suffers (communist included) and you are just as indifferent.  You don’t mind that people buy multiple homes while others bounce around apartment to apartment.  It’s wrong.  And it’s economically unsound.

          • Gregg

            We just aren’t going to agree.  Spending is spending and even money sitting in bank accounts is working. But that’s a false premise to begin with, it’s not all sitting idle. you don’t create demand by confiscating money and spreading it around. It seems rather absurd to me to tell people not to save or pay down debt but instead to by solar wide screen TV’s or whatever. It doesn’t work. Innovation and risk taking works. There was no demand for ipads 5 years ago.

            You don’t mind that people buy multiple homes while others bounce around apartment to apartment. Normally I would tell you not to tell me what I think but you’ve got this one right. The two are completely disconnected, why should it be of concern? It’s just a good thing that rich people buy apartment complexes and houses to rent so people can have a place to live without having to buy new.

          • Zero

            When you use words like “confiscating,” there is no point having a conversation with you.  I make a strong effort to be as technical as possible with my language.  

            Comparatively so, money is sitting idle in bank accounts when it could be in the hands of the consumer class.

            As for your last comment, you don’t have to be rich to buy an apartment complex.  You can get a government loan, build and charge the amount required to maintain the apartment complex.  The only thing your philosophy is doing is making the majority of Americans poorer.  This is Social Darwinism.  You believe that neighbors should be competitive, but do you believe that government should break up banks to make the markets more competitive?

            Given the option: depression or tax hikes on the rich…I think you would rather see America fall apart than for a rich guy to pay a dollar more than he has to.  

          • Gregg

            “Given the option: depression or tax hikes on the rich…”

            You’ve got to be kidding. Tax hikes on the rich won’t do squat.

          • Gregg

            “Confiscate” is accurate.

          • Zero

            No, it is an hypothetical to show that you would let horrible things happen before you consider taxes on the rich.

            Say in a given world, you know without a doubt that raising taxes on the rich will prevent a depression, would you do it?

          • Gregg

            of course, thenI’dawakenfrom my dream.

        • Azra

          Why do Republicans block EVERYTHING that will be good for America?

          We’ll have to ask Mitch McConnell.

          • JonS

            Please tell me what Republicans were able to block during the first two years of Obama’s presidency? Name even one Obama initiative.

          • Zero

            Oh, tax hikes for the rich.  A jobs bill.  Renewable energy initiatives (that are working quite well for China by the way…and Germany), infrastructure projects…go look at politifact.com under Obama’s failed promises and look at a the great things republicans blocked.

    • JonS

      “If you really cared about jobs, then you would want to tax the “job creators to actually create jobs”. 

      Do you realize how stupid that sounds? It’s axiomatic that if you want more of something –you subsidize it . If you want less , then tax it. Do you actually believe that by soaking “job creators” that economic growth and hiring in the private sector would not be impacted negatively? And if the private sector is not growing and prospering , where do you think the money will come from to fund public sector jobs? Just print more money? Government doesn’t create wealth. You cannot have prosperity without a growing and thriving private sector.

      Bit of advice–better you remain silent and thought a fool then write something and remove all doubt. Better yet. Take a course in Economics 101. You sound clueless.

      • Zero

         No, I clearly said that the so-called ‘job creators’ are getting richer but not creating jobs.  The real god of job creation is demand.  If you tax where wealth is pooling at the top and create public sector jobs, then you are introducing a new labor force to the markets.  Demand in the private market would increase and the ‘job creators’ would be forced to hire more employees to produce enough product to cover new demand.  That’s economics.

        If you want less, then let the majority of the wealth stagnate in a few bank accounts.  Money gotta flow…that’s the oldest economic principle there is.  You really don’t realize how stupid you sound.  You should watch the video RobertLongView posted just a little bit down the thread: “The rich have gotten massively richer over the last thirty years…by republican logic, we should be flooded with jobs.”

        I printed the following comment a couple of days ago:

        (1) An individual tax is not a business tax.(2) 39% tax rate no where near a “punishing tax rate.”(3) What is wrong with taxing ‘job creators’ to actually create jobs?

        (4) 1% of small business owners are millionaire’s.(5) If a small
        business owner is taking home over $250,000 out of the surplus of the
        business account, then that business owner can endure a small tax hike
        out of his individual account and not the business account. (Obama has
        actually lowered taxes for small business.)(6) Small businesses hire
        if the employee will produce enough to cover the cost of the labor,
        i.e., it doesn’t matter how rich or poor anyone is.  The only way a
        small business owner can save money by firing people is by taking the
        place of the employee; otherwise, a business owner would lose money if
        he or she fired an employee that was covering the cost of labor.

        (7) If the business is struggling yet the owner is taking $250,000 or
        more out of the business account for his personal finance, then the
        business owner is an idiot and should go under.  

        • JonS

          Sorry but you really don’t know what you’re talking about. Most small businesses are Subchapter S corps;, meaning they get the benefit of corporate limited liability but are able to distribute profits as if they were a sole proprietorship. [You avoid the double taxation problem when corporate earnings and dividends are taxed.] The net result is Sub-S corps are taxed at individual rates which under Obama will go as high as 44% when you factor in Obamacare tax increases. If that taxpayer is living in California (where the top income tax rate is over 10%) you begin to negatively impact investment and economic expansion with profits taxed at over 54%. At some point investors will decide that there are better places to invest. 

          Money doesn’t stagnate in bank accounts. Banks take in deposits and loan it out to small businesses and entrepreneurs. What’s happened today is Dodd-Frank has made it more difficult for banks to qualify potential borrowers. Regrettably, the only ones banks will loan to today are those who probably don’t need it. Demand is very important, more so to a small proprietor than big business. Major international corporations are less dependent on current demand situations  since they tend to take a longer view of the situation. Big business is motivated by many things, including competitive labor costs, tax considerations and interest rates. Regulations matter but more so to small businesses who can’t afford to hire the in-house professionals to navigate the regulatory swamps.

          Lastly , you must work in the public sector. You seem oblivious to how business operates. It goes without saying that we need teachers , social workers, police and firemen , etc but hiring more public employees will not create permanent jobs and sustained economic growth. Yes there’s a temporary bump up but it’s just that –temporary. The layoffs of public sector employees was inevitable since the stimulus funding was never intended to be permanent. Increased government borrowing to pay for public employees drains available capital from the private sector and, eventually must be re-paid from taxes. There is no free lunch as Greeks are now experiencing . You can’t just print more money ( inflate your way out of paying debts).  Doing so would cause massive inflation and scare off potential creditors who would then demand higher interest rates to justify the increased risk.

          • Zero

            No, a business owner allots himself a paycheck after everything else has been paid including business taxes.  If the business owner is taking home $250,000 or over, he can afford a small tax hike.

            Second, you can calculate exactly how much funds sits in Mitt Romney’s bank account, which is north of 75%.  If you think that money is more productive there instead of taxing it to hire public employees that will give new demand for the private markets, you are a fool.

            Also, I have never worked in the public sector.  Currently, public employment is 16% of the economy, which is low by G20 standards. Having public employment around 25% of the economy would cause a lot more money to flow, than financial inequality.  This is not a temporary measure; it is a necessary measure to get close to financial equality to balance supply and demand.

            To do something temporary is to drill for oil, for example.  But our public employment is far too low.  Moreover, there would be less people for the private employers to choose from, which would shift bartering power to the laborers causing wages in the private sector to go up. Public employment should be around 25% to 45% of the economy. 

            What do you think happens in times of high financial inequality?  Does money flow or not? The answer is obvious.

          • Zero

            By the way, name one successful economy in the world right now that would be a model for the right wing vision.

            I can name several.

    • William

      New York fired a lot of public employees and I don’t think the Republicans run that state do they?

      • Zero

        Republicans blocked Obama from funding the states to rehire public employees.  That was in the jobs bill, remember?

        • William

          Actually, Obama gave the states billions of dollars to keep teachers employed, but many states used the money for other spending programs. Los Angles is one of the biggest offenders of this.

          • Warren

            The Unions killed Eastern Airlines,American airlines,GM,the Public Schools(ask Steve Jobs) and now California.They almost killed Wisconsin

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Because $ MILLIONAIRE Management weren’t meant to manage?   COULDN’T manage, Managed corruptly?  Defrauded the companies and other businesses?
               GRAB the money, then blame the unions?

          • Zero

            No, That money went out before the big lay offs.  The Jobs Bill that Obama tried to pass allotted specific funds to rehire the state employees.

      • Warren

        Belgium had no govt.for two years.No one noticed

    • Warren

      Privatize everything and fire the rest.Let the church ministrate to the poor.Better yet,reestablish the nuclear family

      • Terry Tree Tree

        The church does NOT ministrate to the poor and the sick! 
             The church protects CRIMINAL clergy, at the expense of the poor!

      • Zero

        Upton Sinclare.  May want to check him out.

  • Jack Marshak

    Texas inmate, Keith Judd, gets 40% of West Virginia Democratic primary vote against Obama!

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/08/keith-judd-texas-inmate-g_n_1501761.html

    Could it be Obama/Judd 2012?

    Joe Biden is probably feeling pretty nervous these days.

    • Brett

      Of course, if one compares the number of votes the Texas inmate garnered in the Democratic primary to the number of votes Romney received in the WV Republican primary, then one could say Judd is considered a formidable opponent to either presidential hopeful…it says more about WV voters than it does about either Obama or Romney.

      Predictably pedestrian is your attempt at humor, yet you’ve at least tried, and for that I’ll give you one tally for the non-dislike category.  

      • Brett

        P.S.- (Re:WV primaries)
        Democratic primary:Judd received 49,490 votes
        Obama received 105,854 votes

        Republican primary:
        Romney received 75,402

        Obama garnered more votes than Romney in WV primaries!

        • Jack Marshak

          Thanks for the 411 Bert!

      • Warren

        On the Howie Carr show(Boston Proletariat Radio)they did the same contest.The convict won 95%,the President garnered 5%.

      • Jack Marshak

        Right on Bert!

        • Brett

          Ah, so you’re that veterinarian guy…what was the moniker then, US Veterinarian or whatever? How wimpy to continually change one’s name on here. Do you consider your comments to poison your persona so quickly?

          • Terry Tree Tree

            I guess enough of us other Veterans commented to him, about him NOT speaking for us, that he changed?
               OR, he was banned, like Moda ‘Warren’, and uses another name to post?

  • Zero

    Gregg: here is the data that I pulled on GDP at the beginning of the Bush Presidency.  The sources are more reputable.

    This one shows that GDP never contracted:

    http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?page=2 

    This one shows that GDP contracted slightly, but it give a nice comparison to the GDP that Obama faced:

    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-growth

    Second, you just can’t ignore revenue-to-GDP ratios.  It is a measurement that economist take seriously, and you are ignoring it because of ideological manipulations.  The Clinton revenue-to-GDP ratio was above 10%.  Once Bush passed his tax cuts, the ratio never went above 10%, and hovered around 7%-8%, which indicates that more revenues could have been had.  If Clinton had raised taxes, and the ratio went down, then raising taxes caused a loss of revenue.  Only Reagan in the early 80s dropped taxes (which were 70% at the time, not 39%) and has the ratio improve, proving that dropping taxes did raise revenues. 

    But that’s the Laffer Curve: government gets the same revenue if taxes are at 0% or 100%.  This is why you can only increase revenues when the tax rate is above the 60% or 70%.  It’s a curve!  Not a slope.

    • Warren

      It’s the spending stupid.What do you call a guy who posts at 2:00.AM?Why Zero,of course.
      Laffer curve says people dodge taxes at 40%

      • Warren

        That’s 2:00PM Sunday Morning,Sat.late night

        • Terry Tree Tree

          ???

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Can’t tell time?

        • Zero

          I love how you try to find any and every way to discredit me, except for arguing logic against logic.

          You’re still pathetic.

      • Azra

        Is it illegal to post at 2:00 a.m., or did I miss the joke?

      • Zero

        Where does it say that?  We’ve had taxes above 40% and no brain-drain, so what’s up with that?

        And plus, where are these people going to go if taxes are raised…Japan, where their wages will be cut?  America has the second lowest taxes amongst G20 nations. 

        Revenue is the same if you tax at 0% or 100%…think about that.

    • Gregg

      Unless I missed it, your first link does not show quarterly GDP. The second link shows exactly what I claimed. Everybody calls it a recession including Clinton. The bubble was real. Are you really claiming it was no biggee?

      Sure I can ignore it, it’s a distraction. I tell you what, also look at spending to GDP and debt to GDP if you want to consider revenue to GDP. Your calculation also disregards 9/11 and the bursting bubble, it’s complete static world fantasy. All I said is revenue increased by over a half trillion after the tax cuts and it’s true. Given that, it’s hard to say they cost us. 2007 is the highest revenue year on record still yet. If tax hikes were a good idea then they would have happened. 

      This downturn was made deeper and wider than it needed to be. Much so. It’s on Obama.

      • Zero

        The most anyone can say is that GDP growth slowed.  But there is not much evidence to suggest that GDP contracted.  Nonetheless, you give George Bush infinitely more latitude than Obama, when Bush by all estimations had a much better economy than what Obama was given.

        And the revenues didn’t increase.  You are still ignoring basic ratios.  Do I have to cite a conservative think tank that says the Bush Tax Cuts cost this country trillions?

        You are ignoring population growth, inflation, and GDP growth.  The ratio I gave you shows that if the Clinton tax rate would have gotten more revenue, thus the Bush Tax Cuts cost us revenue.  If the Bush Tax Cuts increased revenue than the ration would have increased. 

        GDP was contracting at 8% before the bailouts.  So without a stimulus and eight more banks to file bankruptcy, you and the republicans say the economy would have improved faster if we let them fail…?  How far does your head up your ass have to be before you believe something like that?

        Made worse by Obama, please, we would be in a depression with unemployment in the teens if we had done what the republicans wanted.

        • Gregg

          Your own link shows it contracted in the first and third quarters. Why do you refuse to address the bursting tech bubble?

          Revenue went up, it’s not arguable. Check table 1.3:

          http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals

          Doing nothing would have been far better than Obama’s “fix”.

          • Zero

            One of the two links shows it which I acknowledged.  But the one that shows it is the less reputable of the two.

            I’ve seen those figures, and I am pretty sure I have cited that exact link in the past.  You are still looking at is without considering population growth, inflation, GDP growth, etc. More simply, there are more tax payers every year in America, and you are completely ignoring that fact.

            If revenues truly went up because of tax cuts, then the revenue-to-GDP ratio would have gone up as well.  It’s a little more complicated than just looking at dollars coming in; there are a lot of factors you are ignoring.  And if you would take that ratio seriously, it will explain the numbers. 

          • Gregg

            You just are not going to address the bursting dot com bubble are you? It didn’t happen and no one was affected, right?

            Your other link does not show quarterly GDP, it’s yearly. It is less accurate, not more. It’s not “complicated” at all, $2,411,900,000,000 (2003, when tax rates were lowered) is higher than $1,901,100,000,000 (2007) by a half trillion.
            Can I prove it was because of the tax cuts? No, but it proves that the tax cuts were not the problem. They helped greatly.

            http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/chatterbox/2009/05/bill_clintons_classy_moment.html

          • Pete

            The inflation rate either dropped or held steady between 2001 and 2008, so inflation was either a non-factor or makes the increased revenues due to the Bush tax cuts an an even more impressive stat. http://inflationdata.com/inflation/Inflation/DecadeInflation.asp

            The population growth over the last 10 years has been
            the smallest percentage since the 1940s, which would mean the growth of new tax payers
            would also be similarly anemic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States

            Neither of these factors could account for the increased revenues during the Bush years. 

  • Warren

    As the Democrats cried(I’m paraphrasing) ”Mr.Boehner,Mr.Boehner we’re Jonesing,raise the Debt Ceiling”.To the consternation of Ms.Pelosi he replied”,you promised me cuts last year and we got niente!!!It’s the spending stupid,bring me the cuts ,or I’ll bring you a sequester.When Senator,Pres. Obama said,how dare you raise the Debt Ceiling,this is treason(I’m paraphrasing).About  Pres.Obama’s latest campaign ad,here’s the real story.Bain invested 180 million in the company and kept it afloat 9 years.When the company finally succumbed,Pres.(soon to be)Romney had been gone two years.The other Steel Co.Bain ran was a success.It employed 200 men upon inception and 6000 later on.When Corey Booker was asked about Bain on “Meet The Press”,he said what’s with this disdain for Free Enterprise.I’m Laissez Faire….
        What is the common thread of the OWS crowd????They Breast fed until ,puberty.Wanda (?) the Genealogist,for the Cherokee Nation said of the “Mother of OWS”,she finds no trace of the Warren .Another genealogist found  Ms.Warren’s great great grandfather ,however.He turns out to have been a member of the Tenn.Militia and was part of the round up of Chereokees.They were the sent off on the”Trail of Tears”.
          In todays Bostobn Globe they’re running another story about Romney-Obama care bankrupting the state.Would one of the Tennessee posters please tell us about the failure of TENN. CARE. 

    • jefe68

      Sorry, but despite the rambling here, which reads like some weird stream of consciousness diatribe, funny how the reality is that the Health Care law in MA is working pretty well. Mean while in Texas, about 25% are without health insurance, while in Massachusetts it’s about 95%.
      Yeah and it’s not bankrupting the state, contrary to your misinformation. 

    • Roy Mac

      Dude:  take your meds and call 911.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      TennCare has problems because LOTS of people from other states fake residence in Tennessee, to take advantage of it!
          Lots of those bogus ‘pain clinics’, that are defrauding the state, AND the federal government, to get drugs to drug-addicts, for PROFIT. 
         BOTH are crimes!

    • Terry Tree Tree

      YOU, also, know little, if any, of the Cherokee!

  • Warren

    !.”Lower rates of taxes will stimulate economic activity and so raise the levels of personal and corporate income as to yield within a few years an increased-not a reduced -flow of revenues to the Federal Govt.”

    2.”It is no contradiction-the most important single thing we can do to stimulate investment in today’s economy is to raise consumption by major reduction of individual income tax rates”

    3.”A tax cut means higher family income, higher business profits and balanced balanced federal budgets.Every taxpayer and his family will have more money left over after taxes for a new car.a new home,new conveniences,education and investment………and as the national income grow,the federal govt.will ultimately end up with more revenues”.

    These are speeches(I’ve got more) given by the first of the “Trickle Down” Presidents,the inventor of “Voodoo Economics”,JFK….And to the economic genius Azra, who said Pres.Kennedy didn’t cut taxes,it was LBJ,I say this.JFK was assassinated

    • Azra

      

      Excuse me, but when have I ever mentioned JFK, or LBJ, in ANY context?

        

      • Zero

        I would just ignore this guy.  He believes that there is one economic solution to all economic problems no matter how different the conditions are.

    • Azra

      So, you agree with President Obama’s many tax cuts. Bravo!

  • Pete

    I always find Milton Friedman refreshing during discussions like these:  

    • Pete

      I guess you can’t embed in this program, here’s the direct link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A

      • Gregg

        Thanks Pete.

  • Joe Anony

    I was going to spend the summer at Camp Good News but my daddy and mommy lost their “shirts” buying Facebook Stock

ONPOINT
TODAY
Apr 18, 2014
Russian President Vladimir Putin speaks during a nationally televised question-and-answer session in Moscow on Thursday, April 17, 2014. President Vladimir Putin has urged an end to the blockade of Moldova’s separatist province of Trans-Dniester. Trans-Dniester, located in eastern part of Moldova on border with Ukraine, has run its own affairs without international recognition since a 1992 war. Russian troops are stationed there.  (AP)

Deadly clashes in Eastern Ukraine. A white supremacist rocks Kansas City. The Marathon bombing anniversary. And Bloomberg on guns. Our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

Apr 18, 2014
This undated photo provided by NASA on April 2, 2014 shows Saturn's moon Enceladus. The "tiger stripes" are long fractures from which water vapor jets are emitted. Scientists have uncovered a vast ocean beneath the icy surface of the moon, they announced Thursday, April 3, 2014. Italian and American researchers made the discovery using Cassini, a NASA-European spacecraft still exploring Saturn and its rings 17 years after its launch from Cape Canaveral. (AP)

Oceans in Space. The new discovery on a moon of Saturn, and the possibility of life there.

RECENT
SHOWS
Apr 17, 2014
Ultra-Orthodox Jewish men burn leavened items in final preparation for the Passover holiday in the ultra-Orthodox Jewish town of Bnei Brak, near Tel Aviv, Israel, Monday, April 14, 2014. Jews are forbidden to eat leavened foodstuffs during the Passover holiday that celebrates the biblical story of the Israelites' escape from slavery and exodus from Egypt. (AP)

In the week of Passover and anti-Semitic gunfire, we look at the history of the Jews with acclaimed historian Simon Schama. Plus, Pope Francis and the Catholic Church today.

 
Apr 17, 2014
Students cheer and wave as President Barack Obama, not pictured, exits the podium after speaking at the University at Buffalo, in Buffalo, N.Y., Thursday, Aug. 22, 2013, beginning his two day bus tour speaking about college financial aid.  (AP)

The inside dope on college financial aid. The way it really works, who gets what, and how.

On Point Blog
On Point Blog
Some Tools And Tricks For College Financial Aid
Thursday, Apr 17, 2014

Some helpful links and tools for navigating FAFSA and other college financial aid tools.

More »
Comment
 
How Boston Is Getting Ready For the 2014 Boston Marathon
Tuesday, Apr 15, 2014

Boston Globe metro reporter Maria Cramer explains how the 2014 Boston Marathon will be different than races in the past.

More »
Comment
 
WBUR’s David Boeri: ‘There’s Still Much We Don’t Know’
Tuesday, Apr 15, 2014

WBUR’s senior reporter David Boeri details the ongoing investigation into the alleged Boston Marathon Bombing perpetrators.

More »
Comment