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Hazing On Campus

“Homicide by Hazing” at Florida A&M. What’s going on?

A horse drawn carriage carrying the casket of Florida A&M University band member Robert Champion is lead by his fellow band members following his funeral service Wednesday, Nov. 30, 2011 in Decatur, Ga. The 26-year-old was found dead on Nov. 19 on a bus parked outside an Orlando, Fla. hotel after the school's football team lost to a rival. Authorities suspect hazing but have not released any further details. (AP)

A horse drawn carriage carrying the casket of Florida A&M University band member Robert Champion is lead by his fellow band members following his funeral service Wednesday, Nov. 30, 2011 in Decatur, Ga. The 26-year-old was found dead on Nov. 19 on a bus parked outside an Orlando, Fla. hotel after the school's football team lost to a rival. Authorities suspect hazing but have not released any further details. (AP)

All drum major Robert Champion had to do was make it from the front of the bus to the back, and survive, and he would pass the hazing ritual of the Florida A&M marching band. He was a big guy. Devoted to the band. But he didn’t survive.

He died of blunt force trauma in a ritual rain of blows. A horrible rite of hazing. Now eleven band members face felony charges in Robert Champion’s death. And Americans are asking again, what’s going on with hazing. And not just in Florida. On campuses all over.

This hour, On Point: what’s going on with hazing?

-Tom Ashbrook

Guests

Denise-Marie Balona, senior reporter covering higher education for the Orlando Sentinel. You can read her big investigative piece on the death of Robert Champion here.

Hank Nuwer, professor of journalism at Franklin College, he has been studying hazing since 1978. He’s the author of four books on hazing. You can find his frequently cited list of hazing deaths here as well as a map of hazing deaths nationwide.

Tyler Bellick, a senior at SUNY Plattsburgh, who was subjected to hazing and later helped turn his fraternity away from the practice.

From Tom’s Reading List

Orlando Sun Sentinel “It’s 7 p.m. on Aug. 22, 2011. A thunderstorm is passing through Tallahassee as 350 members of the Florida A&M University Marching 100 assemble for the first time inside the school’s cavernous band-rehearsal hall.”

Rolling Stone “A Dartmouth degree is a ticket to the top – but first you may have to get puked on by your drunken friends and wallow in human filth.”

The New York Times “Hazing is common on American campuses. A 2008 University of Maine study concluded that 55 percent of students who join fraternities, sororities, sports teams or other student groups experience it. On Wednesday night, officials at Binghamton University of the State University of New York, citing “an alarmingly high number of serious hazing complaints this spring,” halted all recruiting and pledging for the rest of the semester while it investigates. Binghamton has more than 50 fraternity and sorority chapters.”

ABC News “George Desdunes, the son of a Haitian immigrant, was pronounced dead on Feb. 25 from alcohol poisoning at Cayuga Medical Center. Desdunes’ blood alcohol level was .409 – more than five times the legal limit, according to the family’s lawsuit.”

Video: CBS News Report On FAMU Hazing

Check out this video from May 2, 2012, when prosecutors filed charges in the case of the hazing death of Robert Champion.

Playlist

Florida A&M Fight Song by the FAMU Band 2011

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  • Terry Tree Tree

    Hazing is usually done by bullies, and it mostly counter-productive!  People with the talent to be a part of the group, and make it BETTER, often realize that they have that talent, and are NOT going to endure the hazing. 
       A LOT of hazing has NOTHING to do with the activity!  ASK about the actual hazing activities, and see for yourself!
      WHAT did beating on this young man, have to do with his ability to be part of the band?

    • Andy

      There wouldn’t be any hazing if people didn’t put up with it–not join a group that uses hazing.  It takes 2. Walk away.  Hazing plays into the hands of idiots and potential sadists, those who want to go along to get along, and
      those who get a kick out of disgusting and dangerous 
      behavior.  It’s a scam, a con.  

  • J__o__h__n

    We should worry about people with real problems not lemmings who need to belong so badly they risk their lives.

    • notafeminista

      Wow.  Just wow.

    • Chris B

      “. . . who need to belong so badly they risk their lives.”

      And you’re suggesting that’s not a real problem?

  • brettearle

    The Psychology behind any organization or group–be it, for example, corporate culture; a non-profit organization; a large, extended family; or a professional sports club–can sometimes become so dysfunctional that psychosomatic illness, serious medical conditions, and severe mental illness can destroy people’s lives, who are part of these environments.

    But Hazing ceremonies (basically a subculture, unto itself; or else a subculture of a larger organization), it seems to me, are even more capable of going out of control.

    This, I think, is because most of these rituals are managed by young men and women–in a more uncontrolled environment; where there is greater risk for sudden and acute consequences: 

    The participants–losing their personal struggles with impulse-control–are more susceptible to giving in to their base instincts of aggression, all for their suppressed desires to

    seek status

    and

    seek acceptance….

    Isn’t Human Nature “too marvelous for words”?

    • SUNY Plattsburgh, Retired

      I wasn’t born knowing how to get a message back to On-Point so I’ll just blindly press a buttone and carry on.
      You fumbled the ball with Rhode Island 1958.  You needed to ask the obvious question “After your hazing, did you join the group and did you carry on the hazing in the following years?”

      • brettearle

        Your reply refers to someone else–but I don’t know who.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Peter-Lake/100000246324434 Peter Lake

    As Masons we initiate new brothers in a traditional ceremony which to non-members would seem strange and bizarre, yet no one is ever injured and no one’s dignity is ever affronted. Why are the initiations among bands, fraternities and military units so different? Why must they use insulting, degrading, painful and lethal methods?  I would suggest it is from a lack of imagination. It takes no intelligence, only sadistic impulses,  to force an initiate to drink excessive — and fatal — amounts of alcohol or even water.

    • StevenHB

      You ask why other initiations are different?  It’s straightforward: the differences are driven by the average age of the participants.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

    It is really sick – and it’s scary to think how many of the movers and shakers in our culture got where they are by being the ones willing to participate in this sick behavior.

    • Zing

       Now you know who you are.

  • Steve

    Hazing is, at its root, a way that groups of people who hold power can control and manipulate those with less power. Young people who are already exhibiting a range of insecurities are especially susceptible to this, either as a perpetrator or a victim. This is why it seems to be happening so much on high school and college campuses and even our armed forces. When these institutions allow even a modified version of these initiation rituals, they essentially tolerate and are complicit in hazing. Power plays of all kinds should be vehemently spoken against everywhere.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       What about the unifying effect that these rituals have?  The group feels more trust toward new people because they’ve all been through the same event.

      • http://www.facebook.com/jcspires51 James-Clifton Spires

         Right. Maybe the ones who weren’t killed. Maybe the ones who weren’t maimed or had broken bones or psychological damage.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Unified, like the Mafia?  Street gangs?  Other criminals?

      • nj_v2

        Right, as if violent/humiliating/degrading “events” are the only means to achieve trust.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Hazing makes a kind of sense in a group that depends on physical force for its effectiveness–military teams, for example.  Marching bands, on the other hand, have no need for this.

  • Heaviest Cat

    THis kind of behavior while totally inexcusable for anybody is egregiously sickening to me when it comes from artists and musicians, whose art I would think would inspire them to rise above it.

    • brettearle

      Human Nature is the same, EVERYWHERE.

      The sooner we realize that, the better off we all will be.

      • Zing

         I said that last week and was ridiculed.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          In what context?

  • ToyYoda

    Is the recent spike (or perceived spike) in hazing incidents across America a function of economic downturn?  The less prosperous the environment, the more incidents of territorial behavior and tribal mentality in the form of hazing?

  • Jessica Noyes

    There are many unrecorded deaths that are the result of hazing. I personally know of two: One young man took his own life within a week of being savagely injured in a hazing incident; another, after an evening of drinking to a .25 level during initiation, ritual fell down the stairs leading to his own apartment after he arrived home.

  • Lindswad

    I was a member of a sorority in the late 90′s and hazing wasn’t tolerated by the college administration or the sorority at the national level. Even doing things like requiring pledges to wear a certain color ribbon on their shirt was considered hazing. I think it cannot be tolerated at all by the “higher ups”-there can be no turning a blind eye. My sorority members bonded through ritual, hanging out, living together-nothing embarrassing or hurtful.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jcspires51 James-Clifton Spires

    This was murder by a marching band. The band — and all members — should be discontinued until the very last member who was on the bus the night this young man was murdered is no longer at the university. Then, and only then, should the university’s marching band program be continued.

    Think about it — any time this band appears in public to perform, each member will be watched by the audience, who will wonder, “Which one of these people KILLED Robert Chambers?” Huh-uh. It’s value as a public relations tool for the university is over. Yes, let them continue their music education at the university, but this marching band’s reputation is as finished as O.J. Simpson’s, Lizzie Borden’s, and Robert Blake’s.

    Rebuild it with new people who have no experience with the “tradition” of hazing. And the university is better off without the financial contributions of alumni who threaten to withhold it because they support the “tradition” of murder, I mean, “hazing.”

    • http://www.facebook.com/jcspires51 James-Clifton Spires

       My apologies, Robert Champion, not Chambers.

  • ToyYoda

    It seems to me we focus solely on educating the hazers.  Why not educate the hazees?

  • Dave

    When I was an undergrad at Holy Cross, a story was told to explain the total absence of fraternities there.  Some years before, we were told, there had been a hazing death in which a blindfolded freshman was convinced that he was being thrown out of a fifth-floor window.  He was not, of course, but he died of a heart attack anyway.  As a result, the school shut down the whole “Greek” system permanently.
    I wonder if the Florida A&M situation calls for a similarly draconian solution, to make a clean break in the hazing tradition.  If the band were shut down completely until everyone who is now a member has graduated, that might do the trick.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Y6CO5C2HE4WM2OYGCDVWGPRXXM oldman

    The fix is simple – band hazing, no band, fraternity hazing, no fraternity, sports team hazing, no sports team. Given the choice between hazing and continuing with what these students came to these schools for, those in these organizations will police themselves instead of turning a blind eye.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-J-Pozzebon/100000025295226 Michael J Pozzebon

    I have two comments: 1) That such incidents bring up the principle of double effect. This is where one can’t have a good thing without a bad thing. This makes somebody like Champion “collateral damage” or an incidental casualty in order to preserve such organizations on campuses; 2) I have seen a few organizations haze from the sideline. Hazing is why I never went Greek as I feel it is a perverse tradition that only a sick-minded conservative mentality could support. It happens now because it happened in the past…and so on and so on. We abhor the cycle of violence in homes, but it’s OK in college? It’s a shame when you witness your otherwise-nice friends become cruel and sadistic as a norm where dehumanization is not of any benefit, but just done because it’s always been done. 
    How many students have to die before these people are removed from campuses? 

    • http://www.facebook.com/jcspires51 James-Clifton Spires

       Robert Champion was NOT a victim of “collateral damage.” He was murdered by a group of people, masquerading as elite musicians, who proved themselves to be little more than a street gang or a violent mob.

  • lpell2000

    One strike you’re out, in my opinion.  Absolutely unacceptable.  They violate any hazing rule, close it down.  I honestly believe zero tolerance is the only way to deal with this ongoing issue.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-J-Pozzebon/100000025295226 Michael J Pozzebon

    Absolutely!

  • Annee567

    It appears that school administrators – whatever their efforts – are not being effective in curtailing extreme hazing.  What can parents of prospective students do to call attention/express concern during collegiate visits and tours?  We have a four year old son, and I hope this situation improves before we embark on the collegiate process,

  • http://www.facebook.com/jcspires51 James-Clifton Spires

    There are all sorts of comments, including from one of your guests, reminding us that other universities and professional organizations use hazing. Aside from the fact that NONE of them should use violent hazing, the fact is none are comparable to FAMU because of the fact that FAMU’s marching band took it to the level of homicide. While violent hazing itself crosses certain legal and human decency lines, the murder of Robert Chambers crosses into that dark region from which there is no return. The “M” in FAMU no longer stands for “marching”; it stands irreversibly for “murdering” in the eyes of the public.

    • http://www.facebook.com/jcspires51 James-Clifton Spires

       My apologies. Robert Champion, not Chambers.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-J-Pozzebon/100000025295226 Michael J Pozzebon

    I agree totally!

  • Jcmagill

    I know from experience that there are plenty of things a fraternity can do to build bonds among its members that do not humiliate or hurt.  We had new members doing things that, while silly and challenging and maybe a little bit embarrassing, had a purpose.  I was told to stand with the other pledges on the steps of the student center and sing a school song in my sadly-mis-tuned voice.  I was given an egg and told to get 50 women to sign it in an hour.  They were part of learning not to be afraid to stand out or to talk to someone new. 

  • Arthur

    See the movie “Animal House”.

    • http://www.facebook.com/jcspires51 James-Clifton Spires

       Why? Who was murdered in “Animal House”?

      • Robert Anton Wilson

        Note that in “Animal House” the (at least notionally) most sympathetic frat—the Deltas of the title house—have what appears to be a pain-free haze, as contrasted with the “respectable” houses non-consensual homoerotic S&M scene.

  • Muriel

    Hazing is akin to torture (mental and/or physical) and that should be outlawed and then punished by law when it occurs.  The notion that the people who hazed Robert Champion did not know that he could die out of their hazing is ridiculous.  Anyone would know that a full busload of people kicking and hitting even a big person can result in death.  And even if they did not know or realize what they were doing they did kill him and need to be punished, not just suspended from school but real prison time.  What they did was criminal, nothing else.  Forget about tradition.  Tradition can and should  be broken when it is vicious, cruel, and repeatedly results in young people’s death. 

  • Guest

    This occurrence sounds like it’s partly culturally but largely because of a lack of education. LOOK at the schools mentioned on this program; U of Texas, U of Florida, Univ in Nevada, and not Yale, Harvard, Case Western. We are talking about BUBBA schools versus intellectual schools.  I am changing my will and making a list of schools for which I’ll pay. My grandson is welcome to go to any school but I WILL NOT PAY for him to go to any of these schools.

    Start competitions in one of the oldest games…GO. Yes, teach GO and have competitions instead of stupid hazing stunts. ASK yourself, if you have ever heard of the game GO?  

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Skull and Bones?
         You’d better do some DEEP investigation work, if you’re going to change your will, to keep your grandson from a hazing Ivy League school!

  • NrthOfTheBorder

    Mob mentality pure and simple – and my bet is in every hazing incident gone too far you’d find borderline abusers and latent murderers who can’t stop themselves from egging everyone on to do even worse. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/jcspires51 James-Clifton Spires

    I wonder how many of Robert Champion’s “fellow band members” pictured in the funeral procession ahead of his horse-drawn hearse were among those who contributed to his homicide?

  • Terry Tree Tree

    104 KNOWN MURDERS by hazing?
       1 would be TOO MANY! 
       2 ‘unknown’ MORE reported here!
       How about a Hotline, or someplace to report the other ‘un-recorded’ murders by hazing?
       PROSECUTION?   Murder has NO Statute of Limitations!

  • Nicholas Eckerracz

    Someone needs to make a connection between hazing behavior, and the subsequent actions of our military (cf: Abugharib, MeLai, etc.) and the CIA (routine torture of captured combatants and non-combatants).  I will wager that there is a strong connection between the actions of the perpetrators of inhumane behavior while in uniform or clandestinely representing the USA, and their having been hazed at some point of their psychological development, probably while in school or military training.  If we can eliminate hazing as a desirable behavior in our society, we also improve the subsequent behavior of our citizens while they serve our country in military organizations.   Nicholas Ecker-Racz  Glover, Vt.   

  • http://www.facebook.com/granddaughterofshepotovka Julie A Katz

    As a follow-up to this program I recommend a discussion of the long-term effects on vast numbers of (especially male, especially alumni of fraternities at prestigious schools who go on to positions of career success involving great power & influence) survivors of hazing. Could be titled: LEGACY OF HAZING; however, survivors of hazing have much in common with victims of other kinds of trauma which are largely normalized in the culture (bullying, football injuries, corporal punishment, sex discrimination, etc.).

    Vast numbers rationalize the pain of traumatization by  “identifying with the aggressor,” a term used in psychology to describe one way of coping with having been victimized. It is generally considered rare for a victim to become a perpetrator, but there are degrees of misusing power over others, and some are subtle.We see this among many who become apologists for abusive parents (I turned out OK, so I use spanking with my own kids); for the celebrated brutality of football; for victims of bullying (it toughens kids up); military initiation rites; etc.

    This may go a long way toward understanding the indifference and lack of empathy of many in positions of leadership, who might otherwise be powerful change agents.The scars left by traumatic experiences don’t ever go away. They may heal,  they may not. Unhealed traumatic experience is a powerful force in people’s internal psychological make-up that has enormous social and political implications.

      

  • Dogojim

    Serenaded to the cemetery by his own murderers.  Sounds like a mafia hit.

  • brettearle

    Good point.
     
    Should we out `em?
     
    Anyone from “Skull & Bones”?

    • brettearle

      Please ignore [as if you wouldn't anyway].   This comment is misplaced.

      Disqus won’t let me delete it.

  • Beridan

    Why is it called hazing and not assault?

  • Brett

    I feel a closeness to this unfortunate topic. I teach music, mostly guitar and drums. I’ve played drums for close to 52 years and devote some of my teaching to helping marching band students. They come to me to gain better stick control, hone their expertise in the rudiments and to generally prepare for high school marching band. It’s an adjunct to what they would work on in school. Some of my students have gone on to play with marching bands at college.

    I also have an extensive video library of great drummers/drumming throughout history. I lend out some of the videos to some of my cherished, exceptional students. Of course, one of the recommendations is the movie Drumline. 

    My studio is adjacent to my living room in my house, and the parents/siblings of the students can sit, listen to the lessons/workshops and participate in regular discussions that are part of the overall service I provide. I encourage parental participation; it helps keep motivation up and serves to better promote all of the things I wish to share with my students. 

    Occasionally, this topic comes up, and I don’t mince words in my condemnation of hazing rituals. I feel very strongly that there are enough natural rites of passage and metal testing that go on whenever a kid challenges himself/herself to participate in a discipline or join an organized activity or club, without the addition of some imposed, stupid, ritualized activity such as hazing.

    About five years ago, one of my students, who was about to go off to the same college his father had attended (which, coincidentally, is also my Alma Mater), told me his father wanted to talk to me about the message I was sending his son about such rites of passage. The caller this morning who talked about the “right way” and “wrong way” to participate in hazing rituals (what utter crap!) kind of reminded me of that father. 

    The father had gotten pretty angry about what I was saying to my students. In no uncertain terms I told him that if he could not reconcile himself to the message I was trying to impart to his son, he would no longer be welcome to my services. I also informed him that I would go so far as to make a few phone calls to staff at the university should he appear inclined to promote such undesirable activity among other alumni in their influence over the marching band’s overall culture. Needless to say, the father decided our lessons would not continue…I still stay in touch with the son, who is now a man, and I’m very proud of his skills as a drummer, but I’m even more impressed with how he conducts himself in his life. He decided to teach high school band, and I feel those discussions all of those years ago have helped to instill a sense of conviction in him. 

    Character is in choosing to “do the right thing” in one’s life, even if from time to time that may be unpopular or potentially damaging to one’s standing.   

  • nj_v2

    Hazing seems to me to be a part of a wider acceptance of violence.

    33 states still kill people as the ultimate lesson that killing people is wrong.

    Inherently violent team sports like hockey and football are enshrined in the society. Even violations of the already permissive rules—NHL hockey fights—are permitted in somewhat controlled doses. Boxing is simply barbaric as are the “mixed” karate/boxing abominations.

    Are the perceived benefits of group dynamics (belonging, identity, etc.) so strong and are people’s lives otherwise so devoid of meaning of significance that violence is so easily tolerated and accepted?

    • Theodore Hoppe

      23 states still allow young children to be spanked or paddled for whatever an adult deems “misbehaving.”

  • MattCA12

    Sadly, the interview did not raise the issue of sexual hazing.  On campuses across the US, young women are being coerced into performing sexual acts upon all too willing male participants, as part of a sorority initiation. This happened to a friend’s daughter, and she became so depressed over the incident that she had to leave university. Her incident was videotaped (without her knowledge) and ended up on the internet.  Truly shocking that we allow this type of behavior.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Video of a RAPE?  PROSECUTE!!

    • Theodore Hoppe

      These are women, doing this to other women?
      How was the sorority not sued, and closed down?

  • Hidan

    Hazing happens, prosecute the more extreme forms but to criminalize all forms is an self defeating act and will hurt more people than it helps  

  • Theodore Hoppe

    Why are we shocked or surprised. We only need to revisit Philip Zimbaro’s ‘Prison Experiment’ at Stanford University to see what we are capable of doing to each other.

  • Robert Anton Wilson

    If I prayed, I would add a line thanking God for being born a little autistic, one of whose consequences is that I cannot feel affection for anyone who hurts me—I am too straightforward for it (I also avoid roller-coasters since my first experience scared me, and didn’t produce the usual desire to do it again).

    On the other hand, this experience may well prepare the normal initiate for a life-time spent as part of a group bonded by pain and ritual, much as bullying prepares the victim for a life-time’s bullying by bosses and of family members.

  • kate

    When I went off to college in 1966, my mother, who was in a sorority, insisted that I go through Fall Rush.  Luckily, I went to summer school and I met my future (non fraternity) husband there.  When I went through rush in the fall, the sororities made it clear that I would have to “date” men from their “brother” sororities.  So, even though I received an invitation, I decided not join a sorority and, having listened to your program, I am very glad I did not. 

  • Magnolia Williams

    Poor and no *mature adult* supervision is to blame for this hazing incident which resulted in this senseless death. You’re really missing the connection between this band tradition and hazing traditions that exist in other fraternities and sororities on campus. His *gay* status was probably not widely known at FAMU. You failed to connect this man’s death with the deaths of other african american (and other) college students in simliar hazing situations around the country. The *band* director should not be fired and other key administrators.

    • Magnolia Williams

      Meant to say the band director *should* be fired along with other key administrators. This would have never happened without the knowledge of college officials. The lack of adult supervision equals persmission and support of this uncivilized form of behavior.

  • Pingback: Hazing On Campus

  • Bkeeler

    Hazing isn’t limited to fraternities and sororities and bands. Ask anyone who has completed a surgical residency.

  • incarcerate corporations

    the caller who says he had limits on hazing in fraternity–push ups, mind games, broken down–this is exactly what military boot camp is–sleep deprivation, mental abuse, exercising which they call beating–sometimes until people pass out.  This is hazing.

  • StevenHB

    I found this topic interested and listened to a podcast this morning.  Unfortunately, I found the delivery, as I have on a number of shows to be exceedingly shallow.  Why isn’t there structure to the show?  This content could have been better delivered if structured into a number of segments:

    1) What is hazing?  This is where the show spent almost all of its time, focused on the salacious details.  It would have been good to include the long term history of hazing activities (couldn’t we consider circumcision, male and female, particularly when done at ages beyond four or five, to be hazing?  And there’s little objection to male circumcision).

    2) Why does hazing occur? This topic was woefully underrepresented, and even when it was addressed considered only the most facile of explanations (B hazes C because B was hazed previously by A – what crap!  It may be true but it’s hardly a comprehensive analysis).  Hazing is designed to create the shared sacrifice and shared experience that creates strong relationships. It also seems designed to create strong bonds between individuals and organizations.  There are clearly sociological, psychological, and organizational psychological issues here.

    3) What can realistically be done about it?  Passing laws is nice but that hasn’t stopped deadly hazing.  If the solutions don’t address the causes described in 2), they won’t be effective.  I found the guest author to be particularly naive sounding when he disparaged the “good hazing” vs. “bad hazing” concepts.

    While I’ve written all of these details about this particular show, I have to say that the lack of depth I found in this show is not uncommon.  In future shows, GO DEEPER.

  • Pedrin

    What a stupid way to lose your life. The person that agrees to subject himself to this abuse is just as responsible as the abusers.

  • Caleb50

    Oldman has it right. If you are going to hold administrators accountable, they must (if they are smart) have the backbone to shut down each and every student organization or athletic program that does it. End of story. If this actually happened nation wide these are the possible outcomes:

    1) no more sports teams or frats/sororities OR
    2) no more hazing

    Any one of these outcomes would be a major improvement for higher education. 

  • Caleb Keller

    It appears to me that hazing is a species of initiation.  And while I abhor the humiliation and violence that attaches to hazing, I would be very hesitant to lose (appropriate) forms of initiation.  I wish this issue had been addressed on-air, because I can easily envision rituals (think baptism, for example) that are clearly rites of initiation, and just as clearly non-abusive.  Might there not be a way of eliminating hazing whilst also retaining (appropriate) initiation rites?

  • Terry Tree Tree

    HOW MANY Deaths, Rapes,Maimings, Permanent Mental Damage, Physical Trauma, Mental Trauma, and other damages, is acceptance by YOUR organization worth?
        Are the HAZERS willing to suffer the worst damage they cause?  OR, are they self-important, sadistic HYPOCRITES?

  • Shivangi Misra

    Is bullying the same thing as hazing?

  • Sdoherty

    Hazing revolves around the need of insecure people to empower themselves by humiliating and degrading others.  It is beyond pathetic.  Anyone who feels better after making another human being feel worse is emotionally fragile and weak.

  • notafeminista

    test

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Our Week In The Web: July 25, 2014
Friday, Jul 25, 2014

Why the key to web victory is often taking a break and looking around, and more pie for your viewing (not eating) pleasure.

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The Art Of The American Pie: Recipes
Friday, Jul 25, 2014

In the odd chance that our pie hour this week made you hungry — how could it not, right? — we asked our piemaking guests for some of their favorite pie recipes. Enjoy!

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Hillary Clinton: ‘The [Russian] Reset Worked’
Thursday, Jul 24, 2014

Former Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton took time out of her global book tour to talk to us about Russia, the press and the global crises shaking the administration she left two years ago.

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