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Week In The News: Santorum Out, Zimmerman Charged

George Zimmerman, charged with murder. Santorum throws in the towel.  All eyes on a rocket in North Korea. Our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

South Korean officials of the Incheon Maritime Police Agency monitor a situation room while on high alert in preparation for North Korea's planned launch of a Unha-3 rocket, in Incheon, South Korea, Thursday, April 12, 2012. (AP)

South Korean officials of the Incheon Maritime Police Agency monitor a situation room while on high alert in preparation for North Korea's planned launch of a Unha-3 rocket, in Incheon, South Korea, Thursday, April 12, 2012. (AP)

We waited all week for that North Korean rocket on its launch pad to head into space. It blasted off this morning and blew up eighty seconds later. Embarrassment in nuclear North Korea. Relief abroad.

On the US campaign trail, Rick Santorum blew up this week. Or “bowed out” we should say. And the “mommy wars” blew up again, over Ann Romney and her Cadillacs and her kids and what constitutes work.

George Zimmerman is in jail charged with Trayvon Martin’s murder. Ceasefire in Syria. Bubba wins the Masters.

This hour, On Point: our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

-Tom Ashbrook

Guests

David Sanger, chief Washington correspondent for the New York Times

Eleanor Clift, contributing editor at Newsweek and the Daily Beast

Jack Beatty, On Point news analyst

From Tom’s Reading List

Los Angeles Times “George Zimmerman, charged with second-degree murder in the shooting of teenager Trayvon Martin, made his first court appearance on Thursday in Sanford, Fla., and was ordered held pending formal arraignment.”

CBS News “When Rick Santorum ended his presidential bid on Tuesday, he spoke about the illness of his three-year-old daughter, Bella, and expressed a desire to spend more time with her as a parent. But on Thursday, the former Pennsylvania senator suggested the decision largely came down instead to a simple reality: He was out of cold, hard cash.”

Associated Press “The crisis in Syria along with growing concerns about Iran’s nuclear program and a potential North Korean missile test dominated discussions Wednesday between foreign ministers from the Group of Eight leading industrialized democracies.”

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  • Hidan

    Love for the below to be answered.

    1st Since Zimmerman stated he was part of the neighborhood watch and has most likely been around the block many times patrolling. After being told to stop following Martin why would he get out of his car?

    2nd George Zimmerman father is a retired Judge so how if any did this play into the D.A. decision to drop the charges?

    3rd while the right has been decrying race baiting there evidences or justification are blacks attacking whites amazing enough all such cases provided(so far) resulted in arrest and charges. 

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       You can find an map and timeline of the events, including a statement from an eyewitness, that corroborates Zimmerman’s account and makes it apparent that Martin went to the house where he was staying, then came back up the street to attack Zimmerman.

      • Hidan

         look whose speculating now. proof? citation? once again you never cease to make asinine comments/responses.

        I ask for answers you provided none other than speculation that you claimed others shouldn’t engage in.

    • Nlpnt

      After being told (“yeah, we don’t need you to do that”- why wasn’t it phrased as more of a definite order?) not to pursure, Zimmerman had only two defensible options;
      1. Turn around  and go in the other deirection
      2. Accelerate past Martin and continue on his way (if Zimmerman was headed in  the other direction).

      Zimmerman, in a car, chose to pursue Martin who was on foot. There is no way this couldn’t be interpreted as stalker behavior. Then Zimmerman exited his car, armed. At this point under “Stand Your Ground”, wouldn’t Martin have the right to defend himself with lethal force?

  • Hidan

    David Sanger is to  Iran as   Judith Miller  was on Iraq. The often cited evidence to the claims on Iran are from ISIS which the head is David Albright the guy who claimed Iraq had WMD. or the loony Debka  which claimed after 9-11 100k suicide bombers were ready to blow themselves up in the U.S. to start a holy war.

    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=David_E._Sanger

    The U.S. political sphere has been trying to prove/say Iran is seeking Nukes when even the IAEA with it’s install pro U.S. head still claims otherwise along with both the U.S. intelligence and even Israeli intelligence. It’s the political leaders that claim otherwise for of course obvious reasons.  Under the NPT Iran has a right to develop nuclear energy yet Israel wants to to stop it’s work completely and dissemble its facility that can’t be easily bombed which the U.S. totally ignores it’s own laws on working with countries that don’t sign the NPT. 

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      You are aware, aren’t you, that nuclear technology is dual use?

      • Hidan

        Love the proof you provided to dispute what I said(nadda). Wow dual use 90% vs 20%(which the 20% is legally allowed by the NPT) no proof of 90% only claims of what if and mights/maybes.

        Did the CIA change their mind about Iran seeking Nukes? Did Israel sign the NPT like requested in the U.N. resolution? U.S. change it’s laws on dealing with nations who don’t sign the NPT?

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

     The North Korean rocket failed, making it appear that as things currently stand, the only thing that will save us is for the other guy to screw up.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      North Korea was a serious threat to the U.S., HOW? 
          With their rate of advance, compared to the damage they do to their own country and people, they could be a significant threat to the U.S., in maybe 100 years?  If they last that long?

      • William

        So if North Korea sinks a U.S. Navy ship in the Sea of Japan what are we doing to do? They sank a South Korean ship a few years ago so it is something that they could easily do to us too.

        • Hidan

           SK=US ?

          • William

            Yup…SK Navy and our Navy and tied at the waist.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Israel DELIBERATELY tried to sink the U.S.S. Liberty?  Did we go to war with them?  Did we fight against them becoming a nuclear power, that has NOT signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty?  They HAVE nuclear weapons!
             Worried yet?

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

         Load a nuclear weapon on a cargo ship under someone else’s flag and sail it into Los Angeles or Seattle.  That serious enough for you?

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Israel is NOT a signer of the nuclear NPT?  THEY have had nuclear weapons, for DECADES, stolen from, and illegally given to them from the U.S.?  SAME for missile technology? 
             U.S. meth-heads could do the same thing?
             Getting spastic over minor possibilities, makes NO sense.
             N. Korea KNOWS we have HOW MANY nuclear weapons?  HOW MANY missiles?  HOW MANY aircraft carriers?  HOW MANY planes?  BETTER than those of N. Korea?
             WHICH despot has been that stupid in the past?

  • Hidan

    As for Syria, it’s sad what Assad did to his people and can’t wait for him to go. I think Turkey should be the one spearheading the efforts there not the U.S. or the despot Saudi Arabia(who openly denies the same rights it claim it supports in syria) The U.S. has been pretty silent about bahrain’s torture and denial of the same freedoms it claims it supports in Syria, the U.S. just lifted sanctions on uzbekistan who still tortures it’s citizens and denies them the same freedoms the U.S. claims it supports and even after a report came out that the government is sterilizing women against there will or without there knowledge. US support of the libyan rebels left 100 of thousands of african migrants targets of the rebels ethicinally cleansed a town of 30k mostly african libyans and the rebels even used the Human rights groups to treat people there tortured and after being treated tortured them so more. This information was known by the U.S. government btw.

    http://www.theworld.org/2012/04/doctors-in-uzbekistan-say-government-forcibly-sterilizing-women/

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-16771372

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jan/26/libya-torture-national-transitional-council-editorial

    P.S. while Bahrain still tortures it’s citizens and hold political prisoners (something the U.S. claim it’s against) the U.S. is about to go threw with a 53 million+ arm deal

  • Ed

    Anyone interested in understanding our present national situation – excluding God, relativizing doctrines, controlling the churches, subjectivizing morality, manufacturing the goods life, and secularizing knowledge – the alleged conflict between science and religion – and how we got here since the era of the Reformation please read:

    Gregory, Brad ‘The Unintended Reformation: how a religious revolution secularized society’, Harvard, 2012.

    “Thus they confuse success in explaining natural regularities with the alleged diminshed plausibility of the claims of … revealed religion.” p. 384.

    • Anonymous

      ‘Revealed’ by whom?

      Those who decry secularism never seem to appreciate the harm that has been caused by dragging that argument into the public square. 

      • Patrik

        Ahahaha  Teh spaghetti monstar beckons…

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Can Child-Molesting and Child-Abusing Catholics LEAD us to a ‘better’ nation?

    • Terry Tree Tree

      The ‘religion’ that has been ‘revealed’, to be decades-old, if not centuries-old Child-Molesters and Child-Abusers?

    • Anonymous

      What evidence is there that the churches are being controlled (by the govt not the Vatican)?  Was that revealed?

      Knowledge is already secular.  Superstition isn’t.

  • Anonymous

    Bit of good news; a corner of the country becomes a little more civilized.

    http://www.courant.com/news/politics/hc-death-penalty-house-vote-0412-20120411,0,2935160.story

    House Votes To Repeal Death Penalty
    Measure Awaits Malloy’s Signature

  • Anonymous

    Big corporations and the filthy rich help suck the country dry.

    http://billmoyers.com/2012/04/12/the-rich-are-different-from-you-and-me-–-they-don’t-pay-taxes/

    The Rich Are Different from You and Me – They Pay Lower Taxes

    “…To add to this embarrassment of riches, the consumer group Citizens for Tax Justice reports that more than two dozen major corporations  — including GE, Boeing, Mattel and Verizon — paid no federal taxes between 2008 and 2011. They got a corporate tax break that was broadly supported by Republicans and Democrats alike.

    Corporate taxes today are at a 40-year-low — even as the executive suites at big corporations have become throne rooms where the crown jewels wind up in the personal vault of the CEO.…”

    …And can you believe this? Two years ago, when President Obama first tried to close that gaping loophole in our tax code, Stephen Schwarzman, who runs the Blackstone Group, the world’s largest private equity fund, compared the President’s action to Hitler’s invasion of Poland.That’s the same Stephen Schwarzman whose agents in 2006 launched a predatory raid on a travel company in Colorado.

    His fund bought it, laid off 841 employees, and recouped its entire investment in just seven months – one of the quickest returns on capital ever for such a deal.

    To celebrate his 60th birthday Mr. Schwarzman rented the Park Avenue Armory here in New York at a cost of $3 million, including a gospel choir led by Patti LaBelle that serenaded him with “He’s Got the Whole World in His Hands.” Does he ever — his net worth is estimated at nearly $5 billion. Last year alone Schwarzman took home over $213 million in pay and dividends, a third more than 2010. Now he’s fundraising for Mitt Romney, who, like him, made his bundle on leveraged buyouts that left many American workers up the creek.”

    [excerpts]

    • Hidan

       Amazing,

      The Right will in the same sentence call for cutting taxes and raising them. How many times do you hear the American public is taxed to much? how many times do you hear we should lower taxes? than how many times to you hear that the majority of Americans don’t pay there fair share in taxes? how many times you hear it’s between 45-50% of Americans? Than calls for getting those Americans to pay there fair share in taxes?

      Like most of the current batch of republicans as opposed to believe/know by lowering taxes their believe will bring in more revenues, as opposed to they know lowering taxes will not only increase the debt but increase the amount of people they can claim don’t pay any taxes and cry about how the deficit keeps increasing and the other way to bring it down is attack entitlement programs.

      While the DC democrats are a little better they tend to be bought and sold as well. The Rich get a tax breaks than take that money and instead uses part of it to bribe..I mean lobby an politician for more. If paul gets his way the loop holes cut are going to be to the poor and middle-class and of course the rich will lobby for keeping loop holes  and probably even more.

  • Gregg

    Why are Democrats waging a war on mothers?

    • Hidan

       why? are the republicans getting mad there taking there war? Don’t worry the republicans are still waging a war on blacks, Latinos,Muslims,Arabs, gays, the poor, the middle class, science, evolution, climate change, abortion, etc, etc.

      • Gregg

         That’s sick.

        • Hidan

           Yep the republicans are really sick (not all of course) check out the teaparty there even sicker.

    • Patrik

      Ah, it would seem the trolls have emerged from under their bridge to nowhere early today.  : )

      • Gregg

        That doesn’t really answer my question.

        • Patrik

          I’ll bite.  One comment from one individual does not equate promoting policies that will actually affect women and women who are mothers.  Rebups. want to take away choice from women with their medieval thinking.  If the republican party is good at anything it’s finding red herrings. 

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Which usually SMELL to the limit?

        • Anonymous

          Hilary Rosen’s comment was not part of any Democratic Party policy or legislative action.

          Raising 5 boys is not easy, particularly with MS, etc. and it is wonderful that Mrs. Romney had the freedom from financial worries to devote herself to it, but there are a lot of women who HAVE to work full-time and still raise several children while facing illness and a lot more financial pressure.

          I suspect that was the sentiment Ms Rosen was attempting, incredibly poorly, to communicate.

          • Anonymous

            Notice that when you hear the quote in full context, Ms. Rosen was NOT belittling staying home, she was making the comment that if Mrs. Romney was going to really represent ALL women, it would be helpful to have experience in the workplace.

        • denis

          which question?

      • Still Here

        Don’t be so hard on yourself.

    • Anonymous

      She put her foot in her mouth with her stupid comment which obscured her main point which was that Ann Romney doesn’t really represent women who are struggling financially as she is rich.  Feel free to twist one person’s foolish statement into Democratic policy if that fits your agenda.

      • Gregg

        It’s a common belief of liberals.

        • Anonymous

          Any evidence?

          • Still Here

            You’re joking right?  Well, you’re a joke at least.

          • Anonymous

            Lame insults don’t constitute evidence.

          • Still Here

            Evidence?  Spoken by the king of lame.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        One statement, when the Republican candidates have made SO many?

    • Still Here

      Actually is much broader than just mothers, it’s all free-thinking women.

      With respect to mothers, their core belief appears to be that there should be no mothers as all fetuses should either be aborted or raised in an American factory by union members.  At least that’s the logical conclusion from their positions. 

      • Gregg

         You’re all over it!

      • Terry Tree Tree

        If you were a woman, and were raped, would YOU want a constant reminder, every second, that you were so grossly traumatized?  Nine months of that reminder?  Eighteen years?  Raising the child of a rapist?  Wondering if you were raising a rapist?
           That’s only ONE scenario.   There are MANY!

      • ana

        Utterly insane comment.  Unbelievable.

      • Anonymous

        What system of logic is that? It can’t be based on Aristotelian logic.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Being BOTH parents to my children, after their mother left, I have the highest respect for mothers that look after their children.  I see the Republicans CONSTANTLY doing and saying things that harm mothers!  If Republicans CARED about mothers, they could have done a LOT of things differently, to make it better to be a mother, or responsible parent!
         You using one mis-statement, to character-assassinate Democrats?  Look at the BOOKS of ‘Bushisms’, on ANY subject!

    • denis

      statement from Rosen:
      Hilary Rosen releases statement on the recent unpleasantness,
      “Let’s put the faux ‘war against stay at home moms’ to rest once and for all. As a mom I know that raising children is the hardest job there is. As a pundit, I know my words on CNN last night were poorly chosen. In response to Mitt Romney on the campaign trail referring to his wife as a better person to answer questions about women than he is, I was discussing his poor record on the plight of women’s financial struggles. Here is my more fulsome view of the issues. As a partner in a firm full of women who work outside of the home as well as stay at home mothers, all with plenty of children, gender equality is not a talking point for me. It is an issue I live every day. I apologize to Ann Romney and anyone else who was offended. Let’s declare peace in this phony war and go back to focus on the substance.”

  • Terry Tree Tree

    Catholics are DEMANDING ‘religious freedom’ to Molest and Abuse Children, Maintain a supply of VICTIMS for priests, and Abuse the employees of their businesses, by denying insurance coverage of contraceptives and other services. 
       HYPOCRICY? 
       If they have provided in ANY way, Viagra, Cialys, or other ED drugs to ANY of their priests, or ANY other Catholics, HOW can they show their faces?

  • Terry Tree Tree

    George Zimmerman has been arrested and charged.  I’ll try to keep quiet about this case, now that it looks like it is being treated correctly.
       I have tried NOT to speculate, and will try to continue that policy.
       Those of you on EACH side, of a many-sided event, that carry on with speculation and dis-information, have to live with yourself.

  • Gregg

    I guess it’s time to start liking Romney. He’s not so bad. ABO.

    • Anonymous

      It is too early to get out the Etch-a-Sketch and retreat from being a “severe conservative” as he had to suck up to the NRA yesterday and hope they forgot his gun control past before he became a big varmint hunter. 

      • Gregg

        Veep will help. I, as many others, was not at all enamored with McCain. Then he picked Palin. I’m thinking Allen West, John Bolton or Clarence Thomas would do it for me.

        • Anonymous

          Why would injustice Thomas leave his influential job for life for one that isn’t worth a bucket of warm piss?

          • Still Here

            “injustice Thomas”  wow, you are in rare form, please provide a link to your blog so that my life can have meaning again.

          • Anonymous

            Thomas can’t be on the ticket. He might be required to speak.

    • Still Here

      Obama seems to be moving even farther to the left, if that’s possible, leaving a lot of room in the middle …

      • Patrik

        Romney is too much of a party appeaser.  He won’t movey any further center than he already has to appeal to the zealot right-wing base, who arleady knows he is a moderate. 

      • denis

        examples please

  • Terry Tree Tree

    Axel Rose says he won’t show up for the Induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and gets FAR more press, than if he did?

  • Anonymous

    “This is a time for prayer and thought.”  –  Rick santorum is incapable of thought and his campaign didn’t have a prayer. 

  • Anonymous

    World’s worst painter Thomas Kinkade died. 

    • Terry Tree Tree

      He couldn’t have been the worst, Kinkade sold paintings!  Pretty cutting statement, about a man that cannot reply, and has MUCH evidence to the contrary?

      • Anonymous

        His entire output is evidence in support.  Glowing creepy cottages, etc.  As a fireman, don’t they make you think that it is time to set the hoses on them or call in the hazmat truck for radioactivity?

  • U.S. Vet.

    U.S. weekly jobless claims of 380,000, worse than expected.
    http://www.stockmarkettoday.cc/u-s-weekly-initial-jobless-claims-of-380000-bad-than-expected.html

    Is there still anybody under the illusion that the U.S. economy is recovering?

    • Still Here

      Just blind Democrats.

    • ana

      Lower trade deficit.  Stocks higher.  Per Boston Globe 4/13/12

      • U.S. Vet.

        “Per Boston Globe”

        Would that be the same Boston Globe that endorsed Obama for President in 2012?

        Because everything I’m reading says that the trade deficit is going up.

  • Salzburg

    The killer’s lawyers will be paid for by the weapons / gun lobbies, & NRA. 

    This whole thing will be a PR move for them.

    Justice may not be fairly served.

    • Still Here

      Because he’s being represented by lawyers? The horror!  He should just roll over so the Martin’s can get a reality show and we can all move on.

    • Brettearle

      While Zimmerman may be guilty, there’s still a presumption of innocence.

      I guess you don’t go along with that sort of thing.

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

         Civil rights only apply to favored groups.

        • Brettearle

          I am referring to the Constitution–which, I admit, is not always respected.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

             I agree.  Unfortunately, for some people, rights only apply to those who belong to the correct groups.  Zimmerman choose his ancestors incorrectly.

          • Brettearle

            Wait a second…..

            Even though Zimmerman may not be guilty–and I certainly am not saying that he is necessarily innocent–it is also true that African Americans are often treated differently, in the eyes of Justice as well.

            Likely, even much more so. 

            Indeed, the darker your skin, the more likely you will not be treated fairly.

          • Anonymous

            He chose his target incorrectly.

  • U.S. Vet.

    Obama Administration spends $3,200 dollars on a mind reader
    http://nation.foxnews.com/general-services-administration/2012/04/02/obama-admin-spent-3200-mindreader

    It looks like Obama got second stimulus bill through after all.

  • Anonymous

    We found the 1st Shovel Ready job from Obama’s Stimulus program.
    The government spent at least $205,075 in 2010 to “translocate” a single bush in San Francisco that stood in the path of a$1.045-billion highway-renovation project that was partially funded by the economic stimulus legislation President Barack Obama signed in 2009.
     
    How is it possible that this waste could happen under Obama’s watch?  I thought he was going to go over the budget with a scalpel.
     

    • Brettearle

      Documented links, please….

      • Still Here

        Are you going to hold everyone to that standard?  Or are your fact police duties selective?

        • Brettearle

          Translated:

          The facts aren’t there 

          • Still Here

            Translated:

            Requirement only in place when opinion disagrees with my own.

          • Brettearle

            Translated:

            I am not employed by Fact.  org.

            Time is precious.

            Me thinks above comment, to my reply, speaks from political and spiritual space of polarization and uncivil- discourse tongue.

            Me thinks, too, that above commenter is also skeptical–especially so–of political views that are on collision course of his own….and, yet, rarely asks for credible sources, so that he can check claims out on his own, unlike what I have tried to do, here…..  

          • Brettearle

            Still waiting for Brandstand’s documented links…..

            As Adalai Stevenson said to the Soviet UN Ambassador, during the Cuban Missile Crisis,

            “I’ll wait `till Hell freezes over, if I have to.”

        • Anonymous

          No, every comment does not need to be held to this standard. But when the claims are extravagant (though still perhaps true), and not common knowledge, evidence helps (regardless of the tacit political agenda). But if you feel like there’s a selective bias, you’re welcome to balance things out yourself by questioning other facts in other comments. The question, ultimately, is, does one want to persuade people or not? If someone asks for evidence, or reasoning, in the context of a forum, that doesn’t seem unreasonable, and if someone refuses it, that doesn’t say much for the credibility of the claim. Whether or not the questioner may have biases, (so does Branstad let’s remember), the issue is, do you want to be taken seriously, or not. I’m sure Branstad does, and will get around to sharing sources at some point soon. 

    • Terry Tree Tree

      How many $TRILLIONS, did a Bush expend to ‘translocate’ a single former plant of his father?  Saddam Hussein?

  • Terry Tree Tree

    WHY aren’t developed nations using their abilities to check on the  actual conditions in Syria?  If we can read a letter in someone’s hand from hundreds of miles up, surely we can see tanks and other millitary equipment in the places where ‘unsubstantiated’ reports are coming from?
       There are MANY technologies that can be used?

    • Still Here

      We’re way too busy monitor kids’ lunches for processed meats and trans fats.

      • ana

        Somebody has to do it. 

        • Still Here

          Gotcha, it takes a bureaucracy to raise our kids!

      • Terry Tree Tree

        THOUSANDS of spy satellites, spy planes, drones, and OTHER means, just to monitor school lunches?

  • Anonymous

    A very interesting read on the federal tax system and who pays what.  I also do my own taxes.

    http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/12/tax-face-off-romney-vs-me/?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120413 

  • Terry Tree Tree

    My best wishes for the health of Rick Santorum’s daughter.  Lucky that she isn’t the child of a working, single-mother!

    • Patrik

      I just hope we keep monitoring school lunches for processed meats and trans fat so she can stay healthy and well.

      • Anonymous

        Rick Santorum home schools his children to avoid any contamination by liberal ideas.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        MY school lunches, and those of my children were pretty nutritious, and rather tasty!   I hope my grandchildren fare as well, or better!
          It bears watching!

  • U.S. Vet.
    • U.S. Vet.

      It looks like Obama’s Affordable Health Care Act (aka Obamacare), isn’t so affordable after all.

      • Brettearle

        See how you feel, in a couple of years, if the Court `bans’ the Affordable Health Care Act and the country goes bankrupt.

        Of course the Right will find a way to blame that on President Obama, as well.

        Ladies and Gentlemen I have an announcement
        to make:

        All of the things that go wrong with the country are President Obama’s fault.

        All of the things that will go right with the country will only take place, when former Governor Romney becomes President.

        I know that this announcement is implicit, but I felt morally obligated to make it public.

    • Anonymous
      • U.S. Vet.

        Just because you don’t agee with a scientific and well documented study, doesn’t make it bogus.

        • Anonymous

          The credibility of the study is that it’s by a Medicare Trustee.  It’s not a government agency study, but from a Koch funded organization.   To me the key is that it makes assumptions about future actions that are the opposite of actions in the past.

        • Anonymous

          IF (a BIG “IF”) the Charles Blahous “paper” is a back of the envelope cherry-picking list of numbers chosen to get the desired results. It just shows how far the WaPo has fallen from the Watergate days.

          Ezra Klein is one of the few good reporters/analyzers there.

          See:

          http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/04/bogus-obamacare-deficit-study.html

          for just ONE total take-down of that WaPo article.

  • Terry Tree Tree

    100 years, and inaccuracies about the Titanic are still being cleared up?
       Over 1500 people died there.  How many died, comitted suicide later, due to survivor guilt?

  • Terry Tree Tree

    Google has recovered from the main damage of their ‘Privacy Policy’, which evidently gives little privacy?

  • Pasqualecap

    I see no-ones talking about the free-speech conviction of Tarek Mehanna?

    Even the media is playing it down.  Lest the good obedient peeps figure out that the real fascists and terrorists are the zionists who control the US courts, and just about everything else in the USA.

    This conviction must be stirring the souls of the founding fathers . 

    • Terry Tree Tree

      ??

      I cannot comment on something that I have no knowledge of.

      • Pasqualecap

         Then don’t.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          I didn’t!

        • Terry Tree Tree

          I was hoping you would enlighten me, and others, about this?

  • Anonymous

    Now we get to listen to all the Republicans tell us that Romney is the best thing since sliced bread, even though seventy five percent 0f them can’t stand him. This will be fun.

    • Goldbug

      Almost as fun as the “birthers” coming out of the woodwork to dispute Pres. Obama’s citizenship.

    • Anonymous

      Makes me want to stop eating sliced bread.

      • Anonymous

         I wonder how many times the democratic ads will play the tapes of Santorum saying that Romney  is the worst candidate for the Republicans, or of Michele Bachmann telling us over and over that she was the only conservative in the field. Politics sure is a lot of fun.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          LOTS of ammunition from the ‘conservatives’ that claim to be the ONLY ‘conservative’, or the MOST ‘conservative’?
              Those that cannot PROVE they are ACTUALLY conservative?

        • Anonymous

          I think the more effective clips would be Romney saying that he likes to be able to fire people, that he is a severe conservative, and other gaffes and moves to the right that he needed to make as the more fringe candidates delayed his inevitable nomination.

  • Terry Tree Tree

    Several earthquakes in areas of ‘Fracking’, and mineral extraction, but “It can’t be related, it’s just a COINCIDENCE!” type or reply from those that benefit from the mineral extraction, but WILL NOT suffer from the adverse effects?

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       We had an earthquake here in northwest Arkansas a little while ago, probably as a consequence of fracking.  It was a minor quake–no big deal.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        If they become a BIG deal?
           If you, or your family get hurt, or killed by a ‘Fraquake’, will you still say it’s no big deal?
           Do YOU make that much money from it?  That your family and your life don’t matter?

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

           I make no money from fracking.  I agree that earthquakes are a concern, but if they remain small, that’s not a problem.  We have to have energy.  Do you seriously believe that we can change over to a power system supplied entirely by wind and solar today?

          • Terry Tree Tree

            How many earthquakes , major oil spills, pollutions, and health problems are linked to Wind-Turbines?  To Solar Panels?  To Tidal Generators?
               How much of those costs are ACTUALLY born by the oil and gas companies?   Billionaire executives?
                WHY, after over a hundred years of oil, coal, and gas, are we SUBSIDIZING them?  Yet they say renewables are too expensive?
               Just take the subsidies over the past forty years, for oil, coal, gas, and nuclear, WITH the monies spent for clean-ups, sub-priced mineral leases, related health care costs, legal expenses for fighting these corporations, and the monies they spent ‘convincing’ the public that they are squeaky clean, and invest it into renewables! 
               Cleaner energy, National Energy Security, less health problems, MORE productivity, less KOWTOWING to foreign powers, truly cheaper energy, are NOT desirable rewards?

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

             Do keep ignoring my main point–the fact that we can’t change over in a day.  We have to have fossil fuels until we can replace them with clean energy.  What’s your solution to that?

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Over forty years ago, this was advised, and BIG OIL and BIG COAL, receiving subsidies, dropped their prices, and objected to renewables receiving subsidies to get a good start!

    • Anonymous

      This is not a new phenomena.  I remember studying this in junior high geology in the ’70′s.

    • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard
  • TomK in Boston

    I hope everyone had a happy Romneycare Day. Yesterday was the 6′th anniversary of Etchasketch’s single accomplishment as governor, and it’s working great in MA. If you haven’t seen it, this video is a must. 
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxZK0spa1yI

  • U.S. Vet.

    Yahoo to lay off 2,000 workers
    http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/yahoo-lay-off-2000-employees-16069940

    I sure am glad that pro-Obama main stream media keeps telling us that we’re in an economic recovery, otherwise I’d really be worried.

    • Anonymous

      The article says that the new CEO is eliminating job that don’t fit with his plans for turning around the company.  What does that have to do with a recovery or any President.  The previous 2 CEO’s have done the same thing.  Is it really the economy in general, or Yahoo’s ability to compete?

      • U.S. Vet.

        Try telling that to the 2,000 Yahoo employees who are going to lose their jobs and more than likely, their homes as well.

        • Anonymous

          I’m not wishing anyone lose their job.  I think a better critique of the situation is that 2000 now need to find jobs in a struggling economic climate.

    • Sam Walowrth

      Have you seriously looked at the Yahoo’s P/E ratio or EPS or Profitability in the recent decade??

      Same goes for Novell, Xerox, Nokia, RIM – Blackberr etc..

      On the other hand look at Cisco, Oracle, Apple etc, do you think they should give credit to Obama Administration?

    • TomK in Boston

      On Thursday, biotech company Novartis broke ground on a new facility in Kendall Square that will become the global headquarters for the company’s bio-medical research.
      Startups are itching for Kendall Square addresses but as biotech and Internet giants continue to expand in the neighborhood, space is expensive and increasingly hard to come by….from From WBUR Radio Boston:Meanwhile Google is expanding in Kendall alsoConstruction of the Google campus is expected to begin later this year, and be completed by mid-2013. The company, which has 32,000 employees worldwide, would not say how much it is spending on the project. Of the company’s U.S. operations, only its New York and San Francisco offices and its headquarters in Mountain View, Calif., will be larger than the expanded Google Cambridge.I guess this means that the President is doing a good job by your logic, huh?

  • BHA in Vermont

    Raising 1 kid is work.

    Is raising 5 children work? ABSOLUTELY.

    Does that work, when the person doing it is married to a guy who makes millions a year,  give one a background that would suggest they understand the economic concerns of women around the country? Not hardly.

    • TomK in Boston

      This whole discussion has been derailed because the focus was quickly shifted to whether raising kids is work.  That is not the point. The point is that Mrs Etchasketch, doing valid work raising 5 kids, has no idea what it’s like for a non-oligarch to raise even one kid.

  • ana

    That is an utterly  insane comment.  Unbelievable mentality rearing it’s ugly head on this site.

    • ana

      Meant in response to STILL HERE at 9:04

  • Terry Tree Tree

    Now that Rick Santorum isn’t running for President, will he use his position of world attention, to CLEAN UP his Child-Molesting and Child-Abusing church?  OR, will he still be a part of the problem?

    • Anonymous

      santorum already explained that was the liberal Boston media that exagerated that problem.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        That’s why the perversions have popped up ALL OVER THE WORLD?   Liberal Boston media? 
           One study says that pedophiles have an average of OVER 180 VICTIMS, in their lifetime.
           Priests have MANY advantages to INCREASE those numbers. 
           THAT’S CELIBACY?  OR HOMOSEXUAL perversion, and heterosexual perversion?

      • Sam Walowrth

        Yup,

        Boston Media has exaggerated the Catholic Church’s failure to protect the children in Ireland and else where (even in Rural India)

      • Terry Tree Tree

        So, Santorum is saying there is NO such problem?  The media made it up?  ALL OVER THE WORLD? 
           I WORKED with one of the VICTIMS, decades ago!
           Santorum is too chicken to try to clean up the nest of vipers?  Stay Catholic?  SUPPORT THE CHILD-MOLESTERS AND CHILD-ABUSERS?

  • Sam Walowrth

    @ Tree Tree Tree,
     
    I dont think if she were a daughter of a single mother and unemployed it would be that difficult, state Medicaid may step in.
     
    However if she were a daughter of working middle class family (between 50k – 100k per annum) I am sure the medical bills would have forced them into bankruptcy long ago.)

    Santorum and Family is lucky (or worked their way up) to be on Govt provided Health Insurance (Not Health Care)

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Thanks, Sam.  That’s why I said single working mother.  I have BEEN there, and understand.  Ann Romney, and many of the people running for office, have NOT. 

  • Dee from NYS

    Ann Rommey needs to know that the fabulously wealthy and well-connected always have choice(s) that most of the rest of us do not.

  • Peter

    So now if we don’t play the elite financial classes game of being forced into 2 income serfdom, to prop up their corrupt economic schemes cooked up by Wall St. Bankers, Crony Corporatists, and tax-hungry politicians, we are to be disparaged?

    As a stay at home Dad, I’m offended and will not vote for the elitist Democrats who front for the financial class, nor the traditional Republican Crony corporate types.

    I have to say, I wish Ron Paul had gotten more traction.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Ron Paul keeps advocating the Gold Standard, which is NOT feasible! 
         I wish we had MORE, VIABLE choices!
        

  • Monica Roland

    Raising children is the most important work there is — for male AND female parents.  I was “home” with our three children for about 12 years, and I worked non-stop.  By work I mean:  making all food from scratch and teaching my kids to appreciate it;  limiting them to 1 hour of TV a day;  teaching them how to read and to be curious about their world;  taking them outside for exercise and lots of it;  walking everywhere to library, park, streams, bird’s nests;  doing all the housecleaning and laundry;  showing my kids the importance of community by volunteering tasks that could be done from home;  and so much more.

    Not work?  You’re kidding me.  

    I also had friends who worked outside the home while raising kids, and they did just fine, too.  However, they had to HIRE people to do much of the above.  Why? Because it’s WORK.

    I thought we ended the Mommy War thing a long time ago.  Every woman must choose her own way.  Men, too.  

    But please, stop accusing women who “stay at home” of NOT working.  It’s just so wrong and so tiresome.

    – Former journalist, mom, volunteer, and retired teacher

    • Peter

      No free lunch indeed.  Spend time with kids or spend money on other people to do it.  I guess if you choose not to, or can’t afford to have “help”, you’re not very hip today. Sadly, I am beginning to understand the phrase “Latte’ Liberals”, and don’t want to support them.

    • Brettearle

      Your description of child-rearing is clearly admirable.

      It reminds us all of what a daunting task, raising children can be.

      As parents, we sometimes `cut corners’ with our encouragement, our support, and with our ability to transfer our life experience, constructively–because of the stress of life and because of time crunches.

      Raising children is truly an awesome responsibility–and even if we get it right, our children can still turn out wrong or `wrong’.

      Does it take a village?

      I’m not a Romney supporter–but what that Democratic political consultant said was stupid and wrong.

      What’s more, it hurts the Democratic party–ESPECIALLY when the women’s vote is crucial for the President’s reelection bid.

  • rdw

    We need to give North Korea credit for including the world in their launch and trying to dispel fears.  We need to keeps our eyes open,  but give them the benefit of the doubt that maybe we can move on to a new era of openness.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       Dispelling fears?  That’s what you call their behavior?

  • Michiganjf

    Tom,

    Staop talking about “Mommy Wars” as if there is some sort of equivalence between Republicans and Dems.

    The Republicans wage war on women at every turn through POLICY.

    One Democratic operative makes one stupid comment about stay-at-home moms…

    SOME EQUIVALENCE.

    • Anonymous

      Not an operative, a talking head.

  • Sarah

    As someone who was a stay-at-home mom for two years and who now works outside the home part-time, I can say the “choice” to stay home to parent full time is one that comes at a steep price (opportunity cost) that most cannot afford. Stay at home parents often forfeit their right to health insurance–family policies are quite expensive. They also forfeit their social security for those years that they are out of the workforce. If they stay out of the workforce too long they face  big obstacles when they re-enter the workforce–particularly stay-at-home dads. Politicians can bicker all they want about who is more pro-mom, but the bottom line is that neither party values the work of stay-at-home parent’s enough to assign even a meager value (reward or benefit) to allow this to be a choice for more moms and dads. The value is purely sentimental and opportunistic.

  • Anonymous

    Hillary Rosen is not a strategist, she’s a taking head.

  • Stay at home mom

    Hillary Rosen was saying that Ann Romney was unqualified to advise Mitt on women’s economic concerns. Let’s not turn this fact into a call for “Mommy Wars.” I’ve been a working mom and am now a stay-at-home mom. I completely agree with Hillary Rosen that Ann Romney is not in touch with most women’s economic issues.

  • Naomi in Vermont

    So,
    the Republicans have twisted the comment that Ann Romney never worked a
    day in her life, to be an attack on stay at home moms?! PLEASE! She was
    able to CHOOSE to stay home because her husband is rich! So many
    millions of working women would also like to make that choice but
    instead choose to put food on their children’s table. What an insult to
    mothers everywhere.
     

  • Guest

    Ironic that Mrs. Romney focuses on women’s choice when her husband backs legislation that takes away women’s choices about reproductive freedom, contraception, suing for equal pay, etc. etc.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Nothing new about religious HYPOCIRICY, is there?

  • Julia

    Some women don’t have the luxury of a choice not to work, hence it is not a “choice” per se. It is a means of survival or not.

    • Bea

      Right.  I “choose” to work because I “choose” to eat. 

      • Julia

        EXACTLY!!

      • Terry Tree Tree

        “Choose” to feed and clothe your children?

  • Irene Moore

    Most women don’t have a choice.  They must work to support their families.

  • Nicki

    What is the minimum number of children to justify a woman staying home?  I thought the women’s movement was all about choice.  

    • Peter

      The “movements” are all about political parties. We, the lemmings, lose.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Actually, I think the question is more “What is the mimimum INCOME that would allow a woman to stay home with the children?”

  • Anonymous

    It’s not that Anne Romney never worked a day in her life.

    It’s that Anne Romney never *HAD TO* work a day in her life.

    And if Anne doesn’t understand that, then YET AGAIN the Romney’s are CLUELESS ABOUT HOW MOST PEOPLE LIVE.

  • John in Amherst

    What does On Point gain by having an apparently un-moderated comment section that often devolves into an on line version of the Springer show?  Tom, do you & the staff ever gleen anything useful from this?  Yesterday’s show on the Zimmerman/Martin tragedy is a perfect example of how a cogent discussion on the show sparks a flurry of snarky retorts and counter-retorts that do little but inflame the passions of a group of regulars and incites them into tit-for-tat exchanges more intent on one-upsmanship than advancing rational debate.  Perhaps some restructuring of the comment section would allow for more reasoned argument and less pedantic, ideological bloviation and personal invective?

    “When you get down and quarrel every day
    You’re saying prayers to the devil I say
    Why not help one another on the way?
    Make it a little bit easier”

    -Bob Marley

    And as a preemptive: I know Marley smoked ganja, I don’t believe in rastafarianism, I do take wisdom where ever it can be found, and I will not be engaging in any back and forth

    • Brettearle

      Great comment.

      Remember Obama’s eulogy in Arizona?

      However, don’t go overboard.

      Back-and-forth IS necessary to expand thinking and to expose false propaganda.

      [Many internet comment sections, backed by credible media, often devolve into Lowest Common Denominator Detritus. 

      Is it not also typical of dysfunctional workplaces and institutional environments?

      It is likely that media sites wish to uphold Free Speech--no matter what.

      But there are limits--and I have seen some exchanges, on credible media sites, go beyond these limits]  

      • ana

        With the  deterioration of  “credible media sites” into no more than “lowest common denominator”,
        and my resulting defection from them, I am disappointed that this site is becoming the same.
        It was once a place of enlightment  and reasoned disagreement.

        • Brettearle

          I’m not sure you will find improvement somewhere else.

          Stand up and fight….

    • ana

      I agree 100%.  It is no longer possible to expect a mature, thoughtful discussion on this comment section riddled as it is with snark and often “hate speech”
      It was  once a place of reasoned debate.

      • Brettearle

        Unfortunately, there is, ultimately, a fine line drawn between the allowance of Free Speech and an impulse to vehemently oppose that to which we object reading, or listening to.

        The best way to combat what you consider to be ignorance, is to speak out against it.

        • ana

          Free Speech vs Hate Speech and outright lying are quite different.  However, unlike most civilized countries, USA equates the the three.   Much has been lost in that interpretation of the Constitution.
          As you can see by this comment section much energy is directed to “speaking out against”  untruths.

          • Brettearle

            Free speech allows for lies and de facto hate speech.

            Only under certain circumstances are lies illegal; what’s more, if the legal definition for Hate Speech was practiced on this web site, it would have been stopped a long time ago.

            The FCC, much less the web managers would not allow it.

            You are mistaking your personal values and standards for that which is legal or illegal.

            Accept the boundaries and SPEAK OUT AGAINST THE FERTILIZER.

  • Anonymous

    How many mothers who work inside or outside the home named one of their horses Gucci?  Or own more than one Cadillac?

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Have an ELEVATOR for their Caddilacs?

  • Sam

    The democrats need to stop shrinking from things like this.  Turn it around- let’s agree that raising children is WORK and stop labeling single moms or dads without outside employment as welfare queens.  Are the poor not allowed to consider child rearing work?  What does the GOP say to that?

  • Nicki

    I totally agree with the caller, Kay!

  • Anonymous

    Hilary Rosen’s comment simply pointed out that Ann Romney speaks from a certain background of experience which is different from the experience of someone who is employed in the work force. It was not disrespecting women’s choices. Mitt Romney, on the other hand, and the party he represents, are the ones who do not respect women’s choices. This is ultimate hypocrisy and the media has allowed the Romney campaign to twist the incident into something it is not.

    • Brettearle

      I disagree.

      Rosen’s tone and affect was cynical and indicting.

      It was ill advised and politically stupid.

      She SHOULD have known that her comments would be twisted by the Right.

      I agree that the Right has a lot to answer for, in the Disrespect for Women department.

      • Anonymous

        I find that separating meaning from tone spares us a lot of inane bickering.

  • http://www.facebook.com/dreamingmatthew Matthew Stephenson

    Right Ms. Two Cadillacs is an example of the home mom. Obviously Rosen has nothing against stay at home mom’s her comment was about Romney’s distance from the middle class

  • Robertklop

    Respect woman’s choices????? What about the reproductive choices and abortion???

    • Terry Tree Tree

      It’s NOT ‘conservative’ to ‘conserve’ the rights of women on these issues?

    • Anonymous

      The Democrats don’t respect woman’s choices! They won’t even let them choose their own insurance plan!

      • Terry Tree Tree

        The ‘religious’ BUSINESSES will PAY for the woman’s choice of insurance plan?  THAT would end the problem!

  • SomMom

    Yes, most of us mothers don’t have the choice to stay home all our lives without working, for economic reasons. And the effect of the economy on women is the point here!
      Also, as someone who has, like Anne Romney, dealt with a chronic illness since childhood, I have  unlike her faced many problems with access to health insurance.

    • Brettearle

      And, is it safe to assume, that the Affordable Health Care Act might make it easier for you to cope, financially, with your chronic illness?

  • U.S. Vet.

    88 million Americans are out of the workforce
    http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-national/88-million-no-longer-work-force-presents-dire-warning

    I sure hope the weather is nice in the D.C. area this weekend, I know how much President Obama loves to golf on the weekends.

    • Brettearle

      Sir, let’s make sure that all Presidents, especially Obama, have no time to relax.

      Please sir, say it’s so…..Please….

    • Anonymous

      He is doing such a great job helping us recover that at our current recovery pace we might have an equal number of people working in the US as we did the day Bush left officein another 5 years!

      Sadly that is the worst recovery in history!

      • Terry Tree Tree

        MAKE the Bushes pay ALL the money back, that they blew on vacations?  Playing golf? 
           They took MORE time off, than a total of HOW MANY other Presidents?

    • TomK in Boston

      Were you screaming about the job devastation when it started with Bush? Why do I doubt it? We started to reverse the trend with what you probably call the “failed stimulus” but we sure won’t have a strong recovery with GoP austerity and debt hysteria and spending cuts running rampant. I bet you think all the layoffs of gvt employees are a good thing even as you blame unemployment on the President. I bet you think bogus “free trade” hsipping jobs overseas is a good thing as you wouldn’t want big gub’mint interfering with our corporate masters.

      What a joke talking about Yahoo layoffs. Great idea, find a failing company and blame it on the President. OK, how about all that growth at Apple and Google and Amazon? The President must be doing a great job, huh?http://articles.businessinsider.com/2010-02-05/wall_street/30088805_1

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Did YOU raise MORE cane about ‘W’ taking so many MORE vacation days than George H.W. Bush, the previous ‘most-vacationed’ President?
         ‘W’s administration, actions, and policies PUT so many people out of work, didn’t they?
         Wealthy banksters, that had ALREADY been loaned $Trillions, got the ‘W’ TARP ‘loans’, that they were to use to help the economy, BUT they used it to invest in bonds, and BONE-USes, for their criminal cronies?

  • http://twitter.com/BocaRatso Boca Ratso

    Wasn’t it liberals who first said women’s work at home should be respected as “real work?”  
    Isn’t it conservatives who say those who have “met a payday” know best about running the economy?

  • Delia Lauve

    Mommy issues:
    Has any one thought to review the expose of former Mormon, Sonia Johnson, who wrote “From Housewife to Heretic”. This is a very on point review I highly recommend reading this book to understand the family dynamics that are the Romney’s reality. CHOICE within the Mormon faith is CONTROLLED by the Patriarchy that Johnson identified as the Archetype of all Oppression.

    SEE: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/178998.From_Housewife_to_Heretic
    Sarah Clarke-Smith

    rated it

    Forgive the length of
    this review; I have a lot to say about “Feminism.” I started reading
    classic feminist literature in my teens (Susan Fauldi, Germaine Greer,
    Mary Wollstonecraft, John Stuart Mill, Betty Friedan, Naomi Wolf, Gloria
    Steinem, Simone De Beauvoir, Kate Chopin, Henrik Ibsen, Virginia Woolf,
    etc.). As an undergraduate, I minored in history and took several
    courses in women’s studies with particular emphasis in slavery,
    suffrage, and the women’s movement. I also took sociology/world history
    courses about women’s experiences in places like the Middle East, Africa
    and China. As a graduate student in educational/counseling psychology, I
    took courses on development, diversity and minority experience. I have
    directly benefitted from the contributions to change that women have
    pushed for over the course of history. I was raised by an educated,
    single, career-driven mother and also single, artist grandmother. This
    upbringing has had its challenges, but has also proven to be invaluable
    as I make my way in the world. I consider myself a feminist. As such, I
    have applied feminism to my life as I have sought my own fulfillment as a
    human being (education, politics, career, the arts, motherhood) rather
    than relying on my husband to provide it for me. In addition, with my
    knowledge of feminism, my open-minded husband and I have set up a richly
    satisfying egalitarian marriage/parenting practices. By all
    above accounts, it would seem that I have a very reasonable
    understanding of women/gender roles/culture. False assumption. I was
    completely unprepared with the magnitude to which the truth of women’s
    experiences in religious patriarchal cultures would hit me. It just goes
    to show, things are fuzzier when you are in the midst of them,
    specifically, Mormonism. For me, Sonia Johnson’s memoir “From Housewife
    to Heretic” was a game changer. Although it was written in the late
    1970s, the content is still very current. Minimal change has occurred in
    the LDS Church in decades and nothing has needed to change because the
    church wielded its political/financial strength and defeated the Equal
    Rights Amendment(Much like it has recently defeated Proposition 8).The
    Church will cling to its power and patriarchy at any cost. Johnson
    sheds much needed light on common practices and dogma in the Church that
    have lasting consequences for both sexes and the culture as a whole. Several of the consequences are:“Patriarchy.”
    In the Mormon Church, patriarchy is sacred; it is held to be the
    principle of organization by which a male God created and governs the
    world through other males like himself. It is the masculine glue that
    holds the world together. Members of the Church are taught this all our
    lives, and have it reinforced one hundredfold in the temple, the most
    sacred Mormon structure in which the divinity of maleness—is the basic
    message. “Priesthood.“ Women are able to have babies, men should
    have the priesthood=everything else=power=privilege. Women are more
    spiritual and righteous than men; therefore, men need to have the
    priesthood to teach the men to be better persons. Women don’t need to
    hold the priesthood when they have men to act for God on their behalf.
    Men are women’s link to heaven above even their own personal
    inspiration. When did God begin being withholding of people for being
    more righteous? When it served men’s interests. “The Pedestal.”
    (Patriarchal Reversal.) As the rhetoric about women in a patriarchal
    institution or society ascends—the oppression descends. As rhetoric
    becomes more elevated, more exalted- (women are superior and have never
    had it so good!) -reality sets in where women actually experience their
    lives. The language is a deliberate attempt to distract women from what
    is really happening to them in their lives. The rhetoric manipulates
    our perceptions so we will believe what it benefits men to have women
    believe. Men are the authorities and women have never had it so good
    because men say so. “God-ordained Roles” are divisive to
    women who stay home and those who work. Role theory has systematically
    subjugated women. It places too much burden on men for sole breadwinning
    and too much pressure on women to find all they need to at home with
    children. It perpetuates high levels of intolerance and are also
    extremely destructive the psyches of those with genetic same sex
    attraction. If these roles are so sacred and important to keep, where is
    “Mother in Heaven” and why are we deluded in to thinking that she is
    too precious and sacred to even acknowledge? Doesn’t she deserve to have
    a say in the parenting with more than half the world’s population is
    female? “In Authority.” The mandate for relying almost
    exclusively on priesthood leaders for spiritual direction provides too
    much control for leaders over our lives. It is a form of spiritual
    oppression when we are too dependent upon them for “word from God.”“Institution.”
    The institution is far more valuable than any of its members who
    sacrifice their whole lives for it. Politics that are threatening to the
    institution of the Church are grounds for excommunication and
    dismissal. Apparently, the idea of equality is grounds for dismissal in
    the Mormon Church. The patriarchy is so “sacred” that it will use any
    method necessary to keep it in tact. Lying, intimidation, secrecy, and
    coercion are all free game for “Men of God”/ “good ‘ole boys club” to
    use. (The methods used to excommunicate Ms. Johnson were pretty
    horrifying.)Bottom Line: This book was written years before the
    enacting of the “Proclamation of the Family” and gender roles were not
    yet considered doctrinal. In recent years (post women’s movement and in
    the midst of gay rights) gender roles have become doctrinal and even
    more dogmatic for the Church and the New Right. There are good men in
    the Church who believe in priesthood and try to act kindly and
    honorably, I don’t dispute that a belief in priesthood can guide and
    inspire them to be better people. Nor do I dispute that women do so much
    good when they are home with their children. I do however, take issue
    with the assumption that having babies being is the same league as being
    able to act for and in the name of God. To me, perpetuating that
    assumption as “from God” and basing an entire system on that principle
    feels blatantly wrong and unequal to human beings. I believe in an equal
    distribution of both “male” and “female” roles in all aspects in order
    to fully experience humanity. As a memoir, “Heretic” is a little
    long and flowery, but the content is vital. Overall, highly recommend
    and worth seeking an out of print copy.“I still thought I
    could be a good Mormon and a good feminist at the same time. It is an
    impossible combination. Either one is true to oneself as a woman and to
    other women out of direct experience of being female, or one is loyal to
    patriarchy’s idea of what a woman is, which comes out of men’s direct
    experience of being male and benefiting from the devotion and unpaid
    labor of women. But women cannot serve two masters at once who are
    urgently beaming antithetical orders, many women try to do just
    that—compromising, adjusting, rationalizing, excusing and apologizing
    for the men and the men’s system. It is psychologically unhealthful and
    in the long run spiritually disastrous for both sexes. Either we believe
    in patriarchy—the rule of men over women—or we believe in equality. We
    cannot believe in both at once. Neither can we with impunity choose not
    to choose which one we believe in. To remain in indecision erodes great chunks of our identity, along with great chunks of our integrity.”-Sonia JohnsonJohnsonidentity, along with great chunks of our integrity.”-Sonia
    Johnson

  • Anonymous

    If you are in the 1% you have plenty of choices: all of them good.  For the other 99% there might be choices: all of them bad.

    • Peter

      What a pathetic and apathetic view of the world. That self-entitled and oversimplified attitude is what is bankrupting the globe.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      MOST of the choices of the 99% are bad, or hard.  A SMALL percentage CAN rise into the 1%, through work, planning, luck, and the alignment of many other factors.

      • Anonymous

        Yes I know any sweat shop worker, if they only work hard enough, will someday own their own sweat shop. 

  • ErinNik

    The mommy wars: How many of the working mothers would choose to stay at home if they had the financial ability as Romney did? And what about staying at home with children makes anyone assume you are too dumb to keep up with important issues like the economy? If anything, there may be more opportunity for stay-at-home moms to read up, listen to shows (like this one), and discuss important issues with other moms to be current, well-educated, and certain of their position on issues.

    • Anonymous

      I’m not sure where you are coming from.  There was nothing that anyone said that implied that Stay at Home moms were stupid or uninformed.

      The point was that Experience Counts.  
      Anne Romney has no Experience a 99% Woman to base her opinions on and therefore she should STFU.

  • Lynneweiss23

    Is fatherhood considered a valid career choice?

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Actual fathers, or dead-beat dads, that don’t care about the children, just the fun of making more, and BRAGGING about it?

  • Ping1

    Moms that are upset with Mrs. Romney are just upset because they married an ineffectual man

    • Guest

      That just makes my brain hurt.

  • Guest

    did Jack just say “Twitterati?” 

  • Plutorising

    Hillary Rosen was talking about the Great American Unmentionable: CLASS. People are distorting this into at-home vs. working moms. 

    • Emiller

      I agree that this is as much a class issue as one of gender!

  • Dave

    I just wanted to point out that there are an awful lot of
    stay at home dad’s out in America
    these days. Many of them are assuming this role against their wishes, however all of them know that the role is a job.  In our house, this was a “family decision”. What’s best for our kids, after too many years of
    “outsourcing” parenting via daycare, nannies and babysitters.
    Dave in Lyndonville, VT

  • Peter

    So being politically/philosophically against a Growing Entitlement State concept makes you a Warrior Against Women?

    Do you pundits really think Americans are that stupid?

    • Guest

       No; supporting a bunch of Draconian laws to regulate women’s access to mammograms, pap smears, contraception, elective or medically necessary abortions, and the right to sue an employer for gender-based pay discrimination makes you a Warrior Against Women. We pundits think Americans should believe in individual liberty for everyone, not just wealthy dudes.

      • Peter

        Are you saying someone is seriously talking about outlawing: 

        ” women’s access to mammograms, pap smears, contraception, or medically necessary abortions,”

        (Elective abortions are a debatable and difficult philisophical situation not to be solved here).

        Baloney, red herring.

        What you mean is FREE ENTITLEMENT to these things.

        Apples/Oranges to thinking people.

        • Anonymous

          No, many of the social conservatives want to ban contraception. 

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Actually, by outlawing, or denying access to Planned Parenthood services, other than abortion, that are provided by donations and grants, free, or low-cost to the patient, it IS outlawing those services.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Texas Governor Rick Perry, said he would find the money to provide these services, without Planned Parenthood.
               He HASN’T YET, so women and children are SUFFERING, due to another UNKEPT political  promise? 
               HOW LONG will they suffer, before Gov. Perry ‘finds’ enough money? 
              WHO will suffer, as a result of moving funds?
               How many illegal aliens provide income for Gov. Perry?

    • Alan in NH

      Perhaps in the same way that being politically/philosophically for a decent, well-functioning social safety net against the machinations of corrupt financial institutions makes one a communist, at least in the eyes of one Florida representative.

  • Dee Walker

    Please interview Sonia Johnson former Mormon who ran in the 1984 presidential election, as the presidential candidate of the U.S. Citizens Party, Pennsylvania’s Consumer Party and California’s Peace and Freedom Party. Maybe she is even the only other person who has been a Mormon to run for that office.

  • Emiller

    The flap over Ms. Rosen’s comment is a nonsubstantive red herring. What she was saying is that Mrs. Romney is not qualified to prognosticate on the economic concerns of working women because she’s had little if any experience in the paid labor force. That is a perfectly legitimate charge but that is being lost in the misinterpretation of Ms. Rosen’s comment.

  • Educated Stay at Home Mom

    I think we’re missing the point of the comment.  It was alleged that Mrs. Romney wouldn’t, couldn’t, shouldn’t have an opinion (at least one to be considered) on the economy because she is a stay at home Mom.  As an attorney with a business degree from a top ranked university who has been lucky enough to be a stay at home Mom, I do have an opinion on the ecomomy.  I share it often and want to be listened to.

    • Anonymous

      Romney was trying to deflect attention from his odious severe socially conservative views on women’s reproductive rights by claiming that his wife Ann was telling him that women were more concerned with the economy.  No one was saying or implying that she can’t have an opinion but it doesn’t make her representative of most women.   

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    It’s looking likely that the charges against Zimmerman will be dismissed.  If he’s convicted, that will be tossed out on appeal.  But, naturally, since Zimmerman was identified as belonging to the wrong group, he must be at fault.

    • LKS

      An naturally because Trayvon was identified as the wrong group, he is dead.

    • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

      Pray tell, what “group” is that? Armed, self-appointed, vigilante stalkers who refuse to listen to direct instructions from the police?
       

  • E Aleo

    Why aren’t you addressing the outrageous comment by Romney concerning 90+ percentage of people losing jobs being women? Is any fact checking going on here?

    • Anonymous

      How many of these jobs that were lost were local government jobs that are more likely to be held by women like teachers?  The Republicans impeding the economic recovery by blocking stimulus are to blame.

  • Still Here

    Democrats would appear to favor all American children being raised by unionized workers, ideally public employee unions. 

    • Terry Tree Tree

      I have NEVER seen or heard that being advocated by Democrats.  You can jump to ANY weird conclusion that you want!

      • William

        I think he is talking about the Michigan rule that forces all child care/adult care providers to join the SEIU if they are receiving any state money.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          MAYBE?

          • William

            Fingers broke? Do a little homework and see what u find.

        • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

          Have a credible source to back up this claim?

          • William

            Do a google search and see what u find.

      • Gregg

         “It takes a village”

    • Guest

       Where would you possibly have gotten that statement?  Besides, I WAS raised by unionized public employees who also happened to be my biological parents. Try to make sense the next time you write something rather than wasting all of our time.

      • Anonymous

        I remember hearing a story about a family that was taking care of their disabled child in their home rather than outsourcing the care and a state law forced them to pay union dues to a union that they didn’t belong to or want to belong to. 

        It must have not been a right to work state I guess.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          WHICH state?  Which union? 
             ONE example, MAYBE?

        • ana

          Please reference.  Hearing a story is not enough.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          So you remember this, but don’t know where or when? 
             Stories, like this one are made up and spread every day, about anything.
             Does that make them true?

  • Peter

    What? Because Trayvon is dead, Bounties are acceptable now? What happened to the Rule of Law in this insane asylum?

    Two wrongs make a right?

    And still no Wall St. Convictions….

    We are rudderless in the storm of financial elite tyranny, and our confusion has spread to all aspects or our lives.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Bounty for the ARREST?

      • Peter

        Bounty for anything vigilante style. You really want to open up law enforcement to the passions du jour?

        Dead or alive was the original call BTW

        • Terry Tree Tree

          ‘Dead or alive’, I DON’T agree with.

    • Peter

      We passively wait and hope for Discretionary Rule and Action by the “right” people, at our own peril.

  • Mark

    The always insincere Mitt Romney makes the case that he should be President because he worked in the private sector for years.  Yet he also claims that his wife is his most trusted advisor- someone who has NEVER worked in the private sector.  So how can that be?  This is a faux reaction from Ann Romney.  Nobody was attacking Ann Romney for being a mother, as many have alleged.  Hilary Rosen simply pointed out the foolishness of employing Ann Romney as an economic advisor when she has never earned a paycheck of her own in her entire life…

    • William

      So, a stay at home mother, according to the Democrats never actually had a “real job” so she has not right to comment on anything in the “real world”?

      • Mark

        It would be preferable if you read my comment.  Ann Romney is probably not well suited or qualified to be an economic advisor.  She, as anybody else, has the right to “comment.”  But with Mitt pitching his private sector experience as a qualification, it is funny that “economic advisor” wife has no private sector experience.  This has nothing to do with being a mother- that is a red herring being promulgated by the media to fill air time.  

        And why is it that people always claim that someone’s “right” is being infringed upon when they are criticized?  

        • William

          So Romney needs to get a “real” economic advisor like those that reside in the “beltway” and have “advised” various Presidents, etc…leading us to this current economic mess? Or someone he has been with for decades? Who would you trust?

    • Worried for the country(MA)

       Joe Biden said he’s never had a real job (like governor or mayor) either.  I like his honesty.

  • Aaron

    Romney is lying…again.

    As part of Mitt Romney’s ongoing attempt to project all of his weakness onto President Obama, the presumed GOP nominee is accusing his general election opponent of waging a “war on women.”Democrats have used the same charge to highlight Republicans’ systematic attacks on women’s rights, but Romney flipped the claim at a rally last night night, saying, “The real war on women has been the job losses as the result of the Obama economy.” He continued the attack on Fox News this morning, where he repeatedly went out of his way to attack Obama’s record on women:ROMNEY: Over 92 percent of the jobs lost under this president where lost by women. His policies have been really a war on women. … Women in particular suffered under this presidency.Watch it:The “92 percent” statistic that Romney cites is highly misleading. For one thing, it attributes to Obama job losses from January 2009 — a terrible month for jobs — before he was even sworn in as president, and long before his policies were enacted. If you count the entirety of the recession beginning in 2007, 39.7 percent of the jobs lost — less than half — were lost by women.The reason women’s job losses are skewed towards the end of the recession is that the earlier job losses were largely in male-dominated industries such as construction. Women, meanwhile, tend to work in industries that have been hit harder on the back end of the recession, such as education and health care — public sector jobs that have been decimated by GOP austerity budgeting. Princeton University Professor Betsey Stevenson told Politifact that “in every recession men’s job loss occurs first and most, with unemployment rates for men being more cyclical than those of women’s.”

    • William

      GOP austerity budgeting? Where? What was cut?

    • Worried for the country(MA)

       But there is no lie.  Nice try though.

  • Anonymous

    I am a late 20s male working in early childcare and while I understand the potential stressfulness of raising children as a stay at home parent or while working in/outside the home in addition what is missing from the two major opinions as presented in this argument is that raising your children whether biological or adopted is a *responsibility*, not a job in the economic sense or a choice.
    Additionally gender and child rearing is an antiquated notion. My father took a year off work to be at home with me, allowing my mother to go back to work when I was an infant and my sister was a toddler and that was almost 30 years ago.

    Both Romneys are being disingenuous and misleading with their manufactured outrage and umbrage.
    Rosen’s comments, while they made sense to rational, clear headed individuals who look at the bigger picture and context, may have been said inarticulately in this age of uber nitpicking and sensitivity, but it was not false as we know “work” to be in the modern era.

    • William

      Obama set the standard for not attacking the wife back in 08. So why is he now using Rosen to attach Romney’s wife?

      • ana

        Rosen does not speak for Obama and you know it.,
        Quit the distortions.

  • Jim_in_Fort_Mill_SC

    Tom,

    Congressman West calling the Progressive Caucus in the House self described Communists.  I am wondering if he would call Governor Romney a self described Communist, since Mitt described himself as a “progressive Massachusetts Republican” when he was running for Governor of Massachusetts.  I think Mr. West owes the House an apology or they owe him a censure.

  • Ian

    “You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view – until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.”
    Who can argue against the truth of this quote?

    Mrs. Romney has NOT experienced the life of an average American woman or stay at home mom, how can she Possibly claim to relate to them?

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

      She can’t…but in the upside world of money, and lies which now govern the broken American political system,  anyone can say anything.

  • Guest

    A caller just mentioned the Black Panthers’ bounty on Zimmerman. This fact is frequently brought up in the media. I don’t want to condone the Black Panthers’ action, but it should be made clear each time this is brought up that the bounty was put on the *arrest* of Zimmerman. They didn’t call for his death.

    • Modavations

       Mr Holder ignors people
      advocating violence and lynching and bounties on Mr.Zimmerman.Racist Rev.Al played
      on MSNBC THE TAPE fUCKING COON,OVER AND OVER.A expert analsized the tape it was
      f*cking cold. As the Left is setting up a PUTSCH.Mr.Holder your melanin is thicker
      than water.

      • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

        Gee Moda, I thought you were pretending to be objective. Having listened to the tape it really does sound like Zimmerman is saying F##king coons. That some unknown “expert” of yours claims it was “F##king cold” makes no sense given the context of Zimmerman’s pursuit of a Black teenager or the Florida location.  

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNI5CA5jijw

        • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

          I have some rather expensive state of the art forensic audio software that as a consultant I’ve had to use for second opinions on EVP audio. There’s a strong subjective component to discerning voices buried in noise. The mind often projects what it wants to hear. I’ve run pure white noise through some of these DNR filters and people swear they hear voices which obviously could not be there. These are aren’t voices, they are digital artifacts. These software packages offer so many options, if the operator isn’t careful the settings they choose can accidently “shape” or modify voices… and produce results contrary to the original.   
           

  • Anonymous

    There is a difference between Stereotyping and Profiling.

    I would love people to stop using the term “Racial Profiling” because people who “Racial Profile” are not Profiling.  They’re using Stereotypes to make a judgement about a person that they are not Qualified (ie they lack the training, education, and real experience) to make.

    There is nothing wrong with a Trained Profiler using race as a factor.

    But Zimmerman had NO TRAINING to be Profiling Anyone.

    He should not have been there.  His background check should have disqualified him from the neighborhood watch.  And there is no way he should have been carrying a concealed weapon.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    March and march and march until the right thing is done?  You mean, until you get the result that you want.

  • http://www.fibrowitch.net Jan Dumas

    One thing I would like to have answered is why if the parents thought their son had been murdered, why did his body go directly to an undertaker instead of to the homicide dept and to a coroner?

    • Guest

       Have you ever needed to handle a bunch of logistics while in shock over a dead relative? It’s a nightmare, and you tend to go with what people tell you because it’s hard enough to breathe and walk, never mind do a bunch of detailed planning.

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

         Isn’t sending the body to the coroner the job of the police, if there’s a suspicion of a crime having occurred?

        • Terry Tree Tree

          The family CAN pay for an autopsy?

  • Peggy Medema

    I don’t think this has anything to do with race. I think George Zimmerman had a deep seeded need to play hero and Trayvon Martin inadvertently gave him that opportunity. I truly believe that if it hadn’t been Trayvon, it would have been someone else.

  • Anonymous

    Why is anyone even asking the communist question?  And so what if they are communists?

    • Peter

      So what?  That’s fine, but people should be up front and make their case, and not try to Trojan horse the rest of us via the DNC.

  • JAA

    Political pundits like Rosen need to state their positions in a clear factual manner, making  an emotionally charged comment about a very sensitive issue is going to result in sparks flying! 

    • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

      Was it really “emotionally charged”? Or did the GOP just want to exploit the issue and spun it so?

  • Terry Tree Tree

    Since Congressman West claims that he knows of 70 ‘card-carrying’ communists, he has PROOF of that?  The actual cards, with admissions, will be sufficient!

    • TomK in Boston

      I think it’s great that this wingnut has re-enacted Sen McCarthy’s behavior. It fits perfectly with the picture of the TeaOP time machine going full speed in reverse, taking us back to all the worst chapters in our history that we hoped were long gone.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Like J. Edgar Hoover’s ‘war on homosexuals’, when there were MANY of his actions that looked that way?

    • TomK in Boston

      Actually I think he failed to say “card carrying”. It’s very disappointing. West has gotta get his official righty language  right. It’s not communist, it’s “CARD CARRYING communist”. Geez, you might as well say regulation without adding “job killing” and then you’d practically be a RINO.

  • Anonymous

    Dear God,

    Please let this cease fire hold in Syria.  Give them the strength to move forward with a new democratically elected government that the USA won’t need to interfere with.

    Thank you and Amen.

    • Anonymous

      The last thing the middle east needs is more god.

    • Anonymous

       
      Isn’t it funny that Syria’s revolution isn’t supported by the US government even though Syria is an enemy of the US but the Egyptian revolution was supported by our president yet the old Egypt was a friend of the US….

      • Anonymous

        I think that depends on what “supported” means.

        We didn’t DO anything for Egypt.  We “supported” them from afar the way we are “supporting” Syria from afar.  Last time I checked the US Government is supporting removing existing leadership from power.

        So, I don’t understand in what way you consider the situations different other than the US’s position on the pre-existing leadership.

        If you had made a comparison to Libya then that might be a better example to contrast the treatment from the US in the midst of a revolution.  

        I do not support any government that uses military force against their own people EVER and I would like to see the killing end and the existing leadership replaced.

        The Syrian revolutionaries need to get themselves organized and together so the US can recognize them.  I have no doubt that this will happen eventually.

  • Wl_fu

    Tax fairness is an important issue that the country has to deal with.  We are working families with two incomes.  This past year we were blessed to benefit from incentive stock options that ended up pushing our effective tax rate to close to 25%.  We benefited and gracefully paid our share.  If Romney, who is paying millions more than us, is paying only 16%, there is something fundamentally wrong with it.  Income is income, whether it is coming from a paycheck or investment gain.  If spent, each dollar has equal impact on boosting the economcy.  Why we, in a country that is founded on equality, accept that investment gain is treated different from payroll income?

    • Anonymous

      Investment income is taxed differently than income because any investment income has already been taxed once and investments should be encouraged since that is what pays the bills at the companies here in the US that employ people.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        ALL investment income has already been taxed?  AT a higher percentage?
           WHY do I find this hard to believe?

        • Anonymous

          How does someone get money without earning it via income ?

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Inherit?  Crime?  Born rich?  Borrow? 
              Need more?

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Fraudulent banksters are criminals, in my view!

          • Anonymous

            I don’t like Bernanke either!

          • Anonymous

            If they inherited it, the person they inherited it from paid income tax on it!  I have never seen a baby come out wrapped in cash, is there a medical term for this?

      • Anonymous

        Your math is flawed. Investment income is from dividends. Which is not money that has been taxed already. Dividends is the result of the stocks of companies going up on the market.  If an individual makes money from the dividends of the stock price that’s not the same as the money the company made in what they sold. The dividend is from the stock related to a companies performance, not the actual money earned. You seem confused.   

        • Anonymous

          So where exactly do you think I got the money to invest and earn dividends on?

          • Anonymous

            I don’t know, are you wealthy?
            But lets say you take money earned from a job. You invest it, then you make some income from dividends.
            How is it you are being taxed twice? If you just sit on the money you wont pay taxes, but if you use it to invest you earn more.
            How is it that this is so hard to get?

            You are earning dividend income, which is taxable and should be at the same rate as any other income. End of story.

          • Anonymous

            First the company pays taxes on their proffits, then the investor pays taxes on the proffits via the tax on dividends or capital gains, or both.  This money is only earned once yet it is taxed twice

            earnings from capital investment are taxed not once, but multiple times.
            First, by the corporate income tax, then again by the individual income tax through the tax on dividends, then if you sell the capital investment, through the capital gains tax, then when you die, by the death tax. 

            http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2012/04/12/the-buffett-rule-obamas-community-organizer-understanding-of-taxation/

          • Anonymous

             If that’s how you’re being taxed, you need a smarter accountant.  Only your gain, which has NOT been taxed as it has not been realized, is taxable. 

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Crime?  Inherited?  HOW would we know how you got your money to invest?

        • Still Here

          Shocking ignorance on economic matters.  You must be a stay-at-home troll.

          • Anonymous

            Oh so a guy who comes on here, all day, such as your self, is not a troll. Interesting.
            It’s so sad to see one so mentally challenged as yourself.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            Isn’t pretending to be correct on some issue without presenting any evidence one of the definitions of being a “troll”?

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            Jefe is correct. The argument that dividends from PROFITS are taxed twice does NOT apply to capital gains from selling stocks where the transaction is entirely between parties NOT directly connected to a company…   

      • Anonymous

        That’s one of the 2 BIG LIES, the other being that there are actual people who will refuse to make more money if they are taxed at a higher marginal rate on it.

        The truth is that your GAIN on investments, which is what you pay taxes on, has not been taxed.  Which is why if the inheritance tax is abolished, an unprecedently huge amount of income, almost all belonging to the wealthiest .1%, will escape any taxation whatsoever.

      • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

        So you’re saying if a company pays NO corporate taxes, those individual capital gains SHOULD be paid at a higher rate? Which is it? 

    • William

      So if “income is income” should we not tax the “Earned Income Credit too?

      • Anonymous

        And the value of your employer-provided health care benefits too. 

        And if we don’t count the elderly, children, disabled and active military, how much of that 47% would be left?  Not much,

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Active millitary PAYS income tax! Did over 30 years ago, too!  Basically, they are paying some of their own paycheck!

    • Worried for the country(MA)

      What about the 47% that don’t contribute any income tax?  How is that fair?

      The reason that capital gains are taxed at lower rate is it is better for society overall to encourage capital formation and risk.  Most economists believe that overall revenue will decrease if capital gains taxes are increased.

      • Peter

        Why are you talking sense and reason? You are supposed to lunge with your gut, and cry out from your heart.

      • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

        Yawn, so Bush BRAGS about taking 5 million off the tax rolls… then the Right uses that as “proof” the rich are overtaxed… even at the lower Bush tax rate? I’m sorry Worried… you just have a few screws loose to not understand what’s going on.  

  • Pasqualecap

    Just listening to the insane caller asking for surgical strikes by the indispensable power (USA)???  He says Egypt wants Syria out. FYI Egypt is still ruled by the Mubarak’s US backed military.
    And who is Hillary Clinton to say that “Assad must go,” when millions of people in Syria support his regime. 

    The uprising in Syria is clearly a foreign (US-Saudi-Israeli) instigated and supported insurgency pitting one islamic group against another.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       Oh, sure, we started it.  Given all the influence that we have with the Syrian people, we asked if they wouldn’t kindly rise up against Assad, and they agreed that this was a good idea.

      • Pasqualecap

         Actually thats pretty much how it happens. Contact some unhappy Kurds and Sunnis and you have a insurgency. 

    • Brettearle

      Oh, sure…..

      The US is responsible for every skirmish, every battle, every bomb, every uprising and every ideologicall disagreement in the Middle East and in the Islamic world.

      Please demonize the US, no matter what.

      The US may have a lot to answer for, but your demonization does nothing but to discourage constructive debate. 

  • SMB

    My mother raised six children on an income less than 1% of the Romneys’.  No babysitter, no housekeeper, one vehicle which my dad drove to work every day.  Among the six of us we have a PhD in Electrical Engineering, a Master’s in EE with a law degree, a technical writer, a banker, a worker’s comp attorney, and a stay-at-home mom who works part time.  All six are employed. There were no teen pregnancies and no drug or alcohol use.  We get along with each other and we work together to look after our aging parents.

    I nominate my mother to be Mitt Romney’s advisor on economic issues affecting women.

    • Peter

      Education, Sobriety and Work. Sounds good, and that you and your family will be rewarded over time.

      Which party is for Education, Sobriety and Work? 

      Aw shucks, they’ve got those values all divvied up, keeping us divided, as the financial elite fleece us from left and right.

      Add Sound Money to Education, Sobriety and Work, and you might actually have a sustainable economy and society that doesn’t need corrupt financial wizardry.

      • Anonymous

        Where do the Libertarians stand on public funding for education?  Or making sure work pays enough?  And while ending the failed war on drugs will have many beneficial results, I doubt increased sobiety will be one of them. 

        • Peter

          Are you a drunk? Bring back Prohibition?

          Why does the funding mechanism have to do with the value of Education?

          So if we don’t have “free” Nursery-Ph.D. education, we don’t value education.

          “Be a Democrat or else….”

        • Peter

          Aren’t you the one accusing the libertarian types around here with false dichotomies?

    • Sam Walowrth

      I am sure you are in your 50s or 60s…

      I would really be interested to know (provided you gave your economical status), the marital status, kids and if you and your kins husbands/wives are working as well.

      Come on, I sincerely want to know if thats feasible in today’s America, because I am not able to make that happen and have earnest desire to know what on earth am I missing (yes, me and my family dong go for an expensive vacation or live in 10 bedroom house or anything extravagant at all)

      Looking forward for your reply, SMB.

    • john w. rippetoe jr.

      You’re getting some heat for this. Me, I’d run your mom for president and vote for her. Her talents would be wasted as a presidential adviser. But, do you consider her ordinary? Shame on you if you do. Or are you trying to tell me “If my mom can do it, any idiot can do it?” See, I didn’t think so. She is obviously rare and extraordinary. But what if a woman or man, less extraordinary than your mom, wanted to try to succeed as your mom has succeeded, but felt her chances were better trying to do it with two kids rather than six? Would you let her have a chance at that success?   As I understand the Romneys, and the conservatives, and you based on your choice of running mates for your mom, you all insist on being the ones to make the decision that would define the type of family that every woman must try to have. What if one of you kids had been born with down syndrome rather than being Phi Beta Kappa? You don’t even mention your dad. How many times did your mom have to pull your dad off of you kids to keep him from hurting you? What about Obama’s mom successfully raising a mixed race kid in a culture still blistering with racism? From what you’ve written, I see your mom as special. But how about giving other women a chance at equal happiness whether they’re like your mom, or not?

  • Mark

    After thinking about it:  When Ann Romney responded to Hilary Rosen’s comments,
    did she basically admit that she (Romney) is pro-choice?

    • Anonymous

      Republicans often try to keep some of the moderate voters by trying to deflect the anti-choice candidates by showing that their wives are pro-choice.  Barbara Bush’s husband still brought us Thomas and Laura Bush’s husband brought us Roberts and Alito. 

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

      Mr. Plastic was…but changed his mind…as it seems to have done on most things.

  • Anonymous

    Every politician and political hack twists every slip of the tongue or poorly worded phrase by the opposition into the most important words ever uttered.  Both sides do it.

    • Fredlinskip

       Unfortunately, the ones who do it best seem to influence elections.

      Too bad elections weren’t mostly about positions on issues instead of about who most best seems to be the person you’d want to invite to your barbecue.

  • Julia

    All Ann Romney proves to me is that she is as insensitive and out of touch with mainstreet American lives as her husband.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_BFQVQQBOBBKLBTILJSHLVSNOJE SIX

      And Barrack and Michelle Obama are in touch? Really?

      • john w. rippetoe jr.

        Really! (Hey, this is fun. I feel like an intellectual – back on the playground.)

      • fredlinskip

         I don’t know, do they tune into the TV shows “American Idol” and “Biggest Fat Person”?

        If not, they’re out of touch.

  • Brett

    Best new catch-phrase of the day…the envelope please…and the winner: ‘Twitterati’!

  • Anonymous

    Did everyone here about the discriminatory behavior in the White house regarding pay of women vs. men?
     
    Apparently Obama doesn’t value women’s work ethic as much as their male counterparts because he pays them 18% less on average!
     

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Compared to the last 10 Presidents?

      • Anonymous

        Didn’t we elect a leader?

        It sure seems like Obama does a lot of bad things because “Bush did it” or “Reagan did it too” .

        • Fredlinskip

           You’re right. It is EXTREMELY disappointing how much Obama has chosen to attempt to compromise with GOPers.

          It’s hard to see why- except in the interest so that SOME action be taken- even if it’s only a shaky half-step at a time.

    • Anonymous

      You think everyone should be paid the same, regardless of the job they hold?  I never knew you were such a committed communist.

  • Anonymous

    Does Obama Pay Less Taxes Than His Secretary?

    Courtesy of the class division SWAT team, we already know all too well that Buffett had a lower tax rate than this secretary. We however have a question: according to just released data, the Obama’s paid $789,674 in taxes in 2011…
    OBAMAS PAID 20.5% IN TAXES ON $789,674 IN 2011
    From Bloomberg: “President Obama, wife Michelle had adjusted gross income of $789,674 in 2011, paid $162,074 in taxes, according to federal tax returns released by White House.”
    Source: White House
    So… inquiring minds want to know if the Fairness Expert in Chief paid less than his secretary in 2011?

    • Mark

      Well, I think that’s exactly the point.  Playing by the rules is one thing….Obama thinks the rules should be changed.  I think you’ve missed the point.

      • Worried for the country(MA)

         Obama is just pushing a campaign gimmick that will do nothing to address the debt and deficit.

        We need real tax reform that will provide true economic growth and provide real private sector jobs.

        • Anonymous

          Try out this interactive program that shows the result  of the Buffet rule and how pitiful it is even if you confiscate 100% of all income earned over $1M per year!

          http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2012/04/buffett-tax-proposal-hype-or-reality.html

        • Fredlinskip

           You’re probably right. Tax cuts for the wealthy have put this nation trillions in the hole over past several decades and accelerated under King W.
           Kind of late to “fix stupid” now.

             If the Titanic’s sinking- how much can it hurt to blow open the hole in the hull a bit wider.

      • Anonymous

        Obama has some interesting friends like Warren Buffet, who wants to pay more taxes but also owes Millions in taxes that he is fighting to not have to pay and The head of GE that has so many tax loopholes put into the system that they pay little to no tax.  Does Obama want to change the rules to actually make these rich people pay their fair share?

    • Newton Whale

      Identifying a problem, then proposing to fix it at your own expense is not a bug, it’s a feature.

    • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

      Isn’t the issue here whether everyone pays the same rate given EQUAL adjusted incomes?

  • Anonymous

    Jack Beatty did yeoman’s work today trying to discourage Democrats from talking about tax fairness now that Republicans are about to nominate the King of Bain, Mr. 1%.

    Jack, I know that your publication, The Atlantic, has been hyping The Third Way’s poll miraculously finding that “swing independents” believe exactly what The Third Wave believes, but the poll is meaningless. I’ll let Jonathan Bernstein tell you why:

    “Third Way defines their “swing” independents as those without strong views of either Barack Obama or Mitt Romney. Given that Romney’s approval ratings are in the dumps these days pending an almost certain post-primary rally among strong conservatives, it seems to me that their group is likely to contain quite a few Republican voters who haven’t yet admitted, even to themselves, that they’ll wind up strongly supporting Romney in the fall. I couldn’t tell from the release, but it looks to me, in other words, that their polling suffers from the problem that Jonathan Chait identified last week: If the universe of committed voters supports one candidate, then that candidate doesn’t have to break even, much less win, among undecideds.” 

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/be-wary-of-swing-independents-bearing-deficit-reduction/2012/04/09/gIQAP09Q6S_blog.html 

  • U.S. Vet.

    The I.R.S. wants 4,000 new agents and $300 million dollars to enforce Obamacare

    http://www.infowars.com/irs-wants-4000-new-agents-300-million-budget-to-enforce-obamacare/

    Aren’t you glad that we live in the land of the free?

    • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

      I see the pricetag has dropped from $500 million to $300. Moda will be happy.

  • Anonymous

    Did you discuss the fact that Al Sharpton has been in the White House more times than most Obama advisors have spoken with the president. 
     
    The running total is 38 times now!
     
    Guess how many times Rosen was in the White House ? or even better look it up.  It will amaze you!
     

  • Paul

    Hillary Rosen’s comments reminds me of another Hillary’s comments “I could have stayed home and baked cookies”.  This is basic contempt for women who stay home

    • Mark

      Paul, do you think Ann Romney is well qualified to serve as her husbands economic advisor?

      • Anonymous

        More so than Paul Ryan.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Damning with damn faint praise!

  • Sammy

    Of course Ann Romney has never worked a day in her life. Mormon doctrine encourages “traditional” roles for women and they are definitely discouraged from working. Being a mother is certainly work, but with their millions I’m sure her experience as a mother is extremely different from that of the average American mother.

    • Worried for the country(MA)

       Daylight is the best disinfectant for bigotry.

  • Worried for the country(MA)

    According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, 92.3% of all jobs lost under Obama’s term have been lost by women.   However, there’s been no coverage by the media.  Hmmmm.

    Personally, I do see anything Obama’s done to target woman and this is a classic statistical gimmick.  The bigger point is this is the weakest recovery ever and that affects men and women adversely.

    However, it is a stunning statistic.  I wonder what demographic economic drivers cause the mismatch.

    Why does the Obama administration pay female staffers 18% less than male staffers?  Hmmmm.

    • Anonymous

      Also…

      Study: New fuel rules will cut 7Million people out of car market due to increased price for vehiclesFrom The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article///#ixzz1rwGhJsyr

      • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

        Story Not Found… PLEASE learn how to post links!

    • Anonymous

      You obviously do not know how to understand statistics.  The stat refers to a limited time period during the past 3 years in which almost all the jobs lost were taxpayer supported ones as teachers, predominantly held by women.  This of course is something the Republican Party and its tea party backers hail as a wonderful thing. 

      So you rail about not reducing the size of government then complain when it happens.  Do you really know what you want?

      • Worried for the country(MA)

         LOL.  Personal attacks.  You clearly didn’t read my entire post. 

        I’ve posted here many times that ‘good’ teachers are woefully UNDERPAID.

        I believe the FEDERAL government is bloated and too big.  Yes.  However, I haven’t commented on state and local government.

        • Anonymous

          Where do you think much of the federal government spending goes or would have gone if the Republicans didn’t cut it?  State and local governments.

          • Worried for the country(MA)

             Reality check.

            We are running a $1.2T deficit this year.

            We have a $16T debt.

            We have over $100T in unfunded entitlement liabilities.

            Where are the grown ups?

          • Worried for the country(MA)

             Oh, and most of debt is short term.  What happens if interest rates spike in the next 5 years, as most experts predict?

          • TomK in Boston

            You mean the “grown ups” like class war General Ryan proposing more tax cuts for the elite and more military spending to make the deficit bigger?

          • Worried for the country(MA)

             Yes.  Paul Ryan.

            I think we can handle a 4% cut in discretionary spending.

            Perhaps we should ALSO cut military spending too.

            See how this works.  We can find common ground and balance the budget even faster than Ryan proposes.

          • TomK in Boston

            The proposal by the house progressive caucus balances the budget fastest. The key is raising taxes at the top and cutting the military. Why aran’t the “deficit hawks”
             talking about it?

            http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=70

            Worried, I don’t understand how you can be so concerned about debt and not be worried about all the tax cutting in Ryan’s scheme. I know he claims he’ll close loopholes to compensate for the cuts, but he doesn’t specify a single one. I don’t believe him. We’ll get the cuts right away and the compensation will somehow never happen. Then we’ll have to cut more of what the middle class needs. It’s called starve the beast. Don’t you have any cynicism about what a pol says? Aren’t you worried that I might be right and he’s really gonna explode the debt?

            Why is he talking about tax cuts at all when we have near all time low rates if his big concern is really the debt? 
            Have you considered that his real agenda might be enriching his elite supporters at the expense of the rest of us?

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Then you admit that laying off, or firing ‘good teachers’ is worse than being UNDERPAID? 

    • john w. rippetoe jr.

      That’s because all of the men who had one lost their jobs in the two years, not mention last six months, before Bush left office. Please! As intelligently as you write, and as conscientious as you are in your logic, you have the tone of a revisionist and so no true loyalty to the facts or history. And those facts would include that the US economy was already in a nose-dive with you-tell-me how many banks failing already and with millions of jobs already long gone (including jobs at Apple and Haliburton) and all of that beginning in the eight years and specifically six months that preceded the 2008 election and Obama’s inauguration. I’m waiting for you to be fair in your rhetoric so that when you say this is the weakest recovery ever you ground your statements in facts so that “it is the weakest recovery following the worst recession in the history of the US economy. I think your “hmmmm” is disingenuous and merely a bluffing tactic.

      • Worried for the country(MA)

         You dispute that this is the weakest economic recovery in modern history after a recession?

        What is stunning is the recovery is SO weak AFTER $6T in stimulus. Perhaps feckless management of that stimulus could be the cause.

        • john w. rippetoe jr.

          Ah ha! You manufactured a dispute because I never disputed your point about “weakest economic recovery in modern history.” I’m just saying you left the part out about “following the worst economic crisis in recorded history with more jobs lost never to come back than people that died during the black plague and after inheriting two losing wars – wars we fought for oil and oil pipelines and still lost both and with the cost for those wars never included in the Bush budget deficits because they were never included in the Bush budgets.” (I’m not blaming everything on Bush, just noting that now you want the cost of the wars on Obama’s spread sheet.)  And I think you’re exaggerating your reaction because if you were really “stunned” you wouldn’t be using words like feckless. And was it really Obama that determined how the stimulus was to be distributed? How much of that six trillion comes off or out of the debt column as the companies emerge from bankruptcy? Is your caps key stuck or are you still trying to tell me I’m still missing the point?

        • Terry Tree Tree

          AND the $12 TRILLION loaned to Mega-banks, BEFORE the TARP loans to the same?

  • john w. rippetoe jr.

    Inbreeding. See, it’s not about the south as a region, or about losing the war, or necessarily about being white. I love the south (look at all of our collegiate national championships and beauty queens), and I consider being white a lucky break. But I think further research will isolate inbreeding as the single most import factor in Southern White Deafness. Successive generations of white slave owners and poor white farmers in the south fornicating with their own sons and daughters (and livestock sometimes – see W.Faulkner) resulted in recessive gene traits eventually emerging as significant deformation of structures in the auditory canal. So, deafness. So it’s not entirely their fault when southern whites phone in comments like “I think the press blew it out of proportion” etc. They don’t themselves hear what it is that’s clearly being said, that is: “What’s the fuss. It was – after all – just a black.” (But I can’t figure out how all those racists migrated to Boston, and then got the accent right?)

    • Gregg

       “…I consider being white a lucky break.”

      Bigot.

      • john w. rippetoe jr.

        How so? I try to see everyone as equal. But how I see the accident of my birth is: I had nothing to do with it; mom and pop just happened to be white, and unrelated – or so they’ve always told us. And to be born in this country, at this time in its history, you’re going to get more breaks if you’re white than if you’re not. So, “lucky break.”
        I wanted to grow up to be Henry Aaron. Then I realized “oh, wait. I can’t hit a fastball much less a curve ball.” But, being white here in the south, I would have a better chance than Henry Aaron of getting into a gated community of fine homes; I would have a better chance of getting a loan at Regions Bank; and I would have a better chance of getting out of drug possession charge. Henry Aaron got the break on good eyes and bat speed through the strike zone; dumb luck made me white.  

        • Gregg

          Being black is not a handicap. Blacks don’t need whites to define them, feel sorry for them, make excuses for them or not expect the best from them.

          • john w. rippetoe jr.

            I agree with all five statements you just posted, and I applaud your excellent grammar (except for a minor problem w/subject-verb agreement(?) in your final clause), but I get what you’re saying. So, am I missing your point? Are you continuing to accuse me of being a bigot, or are you accusing me of being a reverse-bigot, or either way, have I got you thinking I’m a racist, or are you saying I’m not racist enough to suit the hoods-and-sheets crowd you might favor? I don’t feel sorry for anybody, and wasn’t making excuses for anybody – or any race – but I guess I do hate it that someone would ignore 60 years of institutional and virulent racism in the Jim Crow south and then claim that “there was nothing to it”, “media hype” when white cops and a white police chief and white DA decided it wasn’t important enough to even arrest the guy who murdered an unarmed teenage kid, who after all – guess what – was black. (PS. I see you’re arguing with everybody on this page you whore. I thought it was only me.)

          • Gregg

            Okay, I’ll borrow a phrase from GWB and recast:

            Being black is not a handicap. Blacks don’t need whites to define them, feel sorry for them, make excuses for them or burden them with the soft bigotry of low expectations.

            I’ve been a bit grouchy over the Trayvon thing. So many race hustlers think they know all the facts. They base all of it on the various colors of each actor’s skin, that’s it. I hate that crap. So, right up front, my apologies for the harsh snark. It’s a nasty accusation. I don’t know if you are a bigot but you made a bigoted remark. Maybe you can clear it up for me. If you feel lucky you are not black, are you not (oops, there I go again, it’s my nature) by default saying being black is a handicap? The other admonitions follow the logic of that premise. Do they not? (heh)

          • john w. rippetoe jr.

            Damn, this column is getting narrow. No apology necessary. I get what you’re saying about seeing a bigoted remark, and respect you for saying so – and for backing up your claim. And your logic is impeccable based on your premise, but, I don’t know what it feels like to be black. I only know what it feels like to be white. And living white among whites for 50 years, I know the pattern and recognize when the hair on the back of a racist’s neck bristles at having to tolerate equality among races. You can watch their nostrils flare. (My grandfather was a racist, but I don’t think he knew any better – if that makes any sense.) I don’t think of myself as a race hustler or race-anything really, but I’m saying, I believe, because I still see it, and specifically in Sanford, that the pattern of injustice against blacks is still present and visible in the south. It’s not just in the movies that white sheriffs have no suspects in the killing, that no arrests were made, or that if anyone was charged, that the all white juries found white defendants innocent of all charges. Later man, they’re shutting this discussion down.

        • Fredlinskip

           Dumb luck made you white, male, born in the most prosperous nation that ever existed. These simple happenstances, by some accounts, place you in a tiny percentile of humans who at birth were granted greater opportunity than 99% of humans who ever existed.
          What are you doing with that opportunity?
          Are you leaving the world a better place?

          • john w. rippetoe jr.

            I smell a trap, and sense two consecutive trick questions. Or are you trying to use triple reverse sarcasm on me? It so happens I’m currently deteriorating faster than I can lower my standards, or how is it that I’m able to listen to the radio mid-day? But I agree completely with your assesstment of my good fortune. (I thought that was my point in saying I was lucky? Are you trying to get into my head?) If anything, you left one thing out, that is, I benefited from the fact that my folks spared me the “hate” lesson, they never taught me to hate, even though I grew up in the south seeing it all around me. . So every time I recognize some cracker claiming that racism is media hype or the furor in Sanford overblown, I feel like talking about the death threats that Henry Aaron received as he closed in on Babe Ruth’s home run record. The hatred and the injustice were there all along and are still here today. “Are we leaving the world a better place?”

  • U.S. Vet.

    President Obama’s stimulus:

    $205,075 tax-payers dollars spent to move a shrub

    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/shovel-ready-san-fran-205075-translocate-one-shrub-path-stimulus-project

    • Worried for the country(MA)

       But is was ‘shovel ready’.

      • Fredlinskip

         Better have a “shovel ready”, if you attend a Romney speech

    • Fredlinskip

       Better that than more than 3 trillion for an unnecessary War, which by some estimates will be cost of the recent Iraq “adventure”.

  • Anonymous

    Barack Obama paid a lower tax rate than Buffet’s secratary! or so Buffet claims!

    • Herve

      Love to know what Buffett’s secretary makes. I bet she makes half a million a year.

  • Worried for the country(MA)

    MOMneys for Romney – 2012

    A new bumper sticker?

    • Terry Tree Tree

      You can probably sell one for each of Ann Romney’s Caddilacs?
         Unless they choose to try to look like ‘the people’?

      • Terry Tree Tree

        A FORTUNE , on selling two bumper stickers?  You printing them yet?

  • Terry Tree Tree

    Politicians take an OATH of Office, to be public servants to the people and best interests of the United States of America! 
        Does THAT, or does it NOT supersede ANY oath to Grover Norquist, or other interests?  If NOT, WHY NOT?
        When they help a foreign corporation, foreign country, domestic corporation, to the DETRIMENT of the PEOPLE of, and the country of the United States, WHAT does that make them?

  • DEE

    I CAN’T BELIEVE HOW OFF BASE ELEANOR CLIFF IS ON ANN 
    ROMNEY –WHILE I AM NOT HERE TO DISPUTE HER ASSESS-
    MENT OF WHAT CHARACTERIZES “A CLASSY LADY” I DOUBT 
    I WOULD ACCEPT IT ANYHOW….AS SHE REVEALS WORKING 
    AS A MOTHER WAS IN MANY WAYS “A NECESSARY THERAPY”
    FOR HER. WHAT A PRIVILEGED LIFE OF CHOICE MANY WOMEN 
    LIKE MYSELF DIDN’T HAVE ….

    I RECALL LIVING ON MY HUSBAND’S STUDENT STIPEND OF 
    SOME 500 DOLLARS A MONTH WHEN WE STARTED OUT WHICH BARELY COVERED FOOD, RENT AND UTILITIES. TALK ABOUT A STARVING STUDENT EXISTENCE–ESPECIALLY WHEN WE HAD 
    EXTRA MOUTHS TO FEED. THUS I HAS “NO CHOICE” BUT TO WORK TO LIFT US OUT OF THIS IMPOVERISH EXISTENCE WHILE 
    CLIMBING THE LADDER TO SUPPOSEDLY HIGHER EDUCATION….

    YET THE BIGGEST SHOCK OF ALL CAME WHEN I STARTED 
    WORKING FOR A GOVERNMENT AGENCY THAT GAVE AID
    TO DEPENDENT FAMILIES WITH 3-4 CHILDREN AND EXPECT-
    ED THEM TO LIVE ON 450 DOLLARS A MONTH WITH A SMALL 
    ALLOWANCE FOR FOOD STAMPS & HOUSING THROWN IN…

    I AM AMAZED TO THIS DAY THERE WEREN’T RIOTS ON AMERI-
    CAN STREETS…AND I WILL NEVER GET OVER THE REPUBLICAN 
    ASSAULT ON THIS NECESSARY PROGRAM AND THEIR CLAIMS  OF “WELFARE QUEENS DRIVING AROUND IN CADILLACS ” NEWT SAID WERE RIPPING OFF THE SYSTEM…I NEVER MET OR SAW ANY….NONE AT ALL. 

    OF COURSE, NEWT NEVER MENTIONED THE CORPORATE WEL-
    FARE LORDS THAT WERE LACKING A WORK ETHIC -HANGING OUT IN THEIR CLUBS ALL DAY AND IN THE TENNIS COURTS WHEN THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN CONTRIBUTING MEMBERS 
    TO SOCIETY AND THE US TREASURY.

    MANY OF THEM HAD NO DEPENDENT CHILDREN TO WORRY 
    ABOUT AND IF THEY DID –THEY LEFT IT TO THEIR WIVES LIKE ANN ROMNEY AND THEIR LIVE IN MOTHER’S HELPER TO WORRY 
    ABOUT.  DEE

    P.S. I WILL NEVER FORGIVE HILLARY FOR ALLOWING BILL TO 
    CUT AID TO DEPENDENT CHILDREN TO SATIFY THE WHIMS 
    AND FALSEHOODS OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. IT REMAINS 
    A SHAMEFUL CHAPTER IN OUR NATION’S SOCIAL HISTORY.
    I DON’T DOUBT ROOSEVELT AND HIS NEW DEAL TEAM ARE 
    TURNING STILL IN THEIR GRAVES TODAY… 
    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/22/opinion/22clinton.html?_r=1

    • Worried for the country(MA)

       YOUR CAP LOCK IS ON.

    • aj

      That is exactly how I feel. But the problem is that Obama is just as conservative and capitulating as obama.

      i.e. employee free choice act, public option, etc. (the list is long)

      Tell me Dee, are you going to vote for Obama in November? Do I have it wrong?

      • aj

        ADDENDUM

        correction first paragraph, “as conservative and capitulating as clinton”

    • William

      Sometimes the world seems upside down. A person that is successful is targeted because he is successful and “does not pay his fair share”. A welfare queen is the person we should look up too and provide more welfare programs or even a house. Why is that?

  • Dee

    addendum…

    I can’t see for the likes of me how The Romney’s Response Team can saY “all womens’ choices should be respected..”

    When in reality many working mothers today have little or 
    ” no choice ” in our economy that promotes wealth by short 
    changing working and middle class families whose incomes
    have been stunted for decades. And to suggest they do is an-other demonstration in my book  how out of touch The Rom-
    ney Team is with working American women and mothers to-
    day. Dee

    • aj

      I usually agree with you Dee, but last week you said the economy was better than the jobs number indicated.  We’re not feeling it where I live, are you standing by that claim?

    • aj

      Dee did you hear Fresh air yesterday, it was all about the welfare. and how there really is no welfare, anymore. and how nobody cares either.

      Terri gross asked all the wrong questions, and then only gave it 20 minutes instead of the whole show. And she’s supposed to be so progressive. On the contrary.

      • Dee

        I didn’t hear Terry Gross yesterday…However,
        I imagine she is right –there is no welfare or safety net for America’s poor anymore…

        And the shame of it all –the Right Wing revision-
        ists have been chipping away at the new deal for quite some time— now. 

        Mitt Romney himself is a right wing revisionists –He wants to dismantle government and outsource jobs…And of course, deregulate the markets and industry….This is his idea of job creation ….

        It’s all pretty sick right wing stuff and it means putting more government money in the hands of the rich and industry while breaking the backs of unions, etc . Dee

        P.S. I am so put off by Terry Gross–she had an 
        opportunity to interview different views on the causes of 9/11 and she stuck with Lawrence 
        Dwight , The looming Towers who was a fiction
        writer for the New Yorker on terrorism and a 
        Zionist apologist….I was sick with disgust and 
        wrote and told her so….http://www.amazon.com/The-Looming-Tower-Al-Qaeda-Road/dp/037541486X.

        This guy David Ray Griffin is much more authentic
        Like Mike Wallace he questions and examine the 
        evidence –Wright takes the Bush Camp’s word…
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w35HsHwTmc
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w35HsHwTmc 

        • aj

          Your the best Dee. aj

  • aj

    addendum

    Dee, we need a Mother who has been on welfare (and then thrown off and forced to work at White Castle Burger while trying to raise 3 kids on your own) to be President of these United States.

    Not Ann Romney whose 5 sons EACH have a $20million dollar Trust fund the day they graduated high school.

    All this choice bull, that she was talking about, my ma never had that choice and its insulting that all these over paid media swine don’t point that out! To busy worrying if Hillary Rosen’s feelings got hurt when Obama threw her under the bus!!!! Who cares!!! We’re dying here Mr President!!!

    • Dee

      aj, 

      The people in the media need to be reformed today 
      if they are going to stay current and in business…..

      Enough, of excusing right wing propaganda & false-hoods. The illegal invasion of Iraq and the no WMD 
      should have straightened them all out…..

      Although Tom & Jack do a better job of stretching the boundaries than most people I know. Yet they need to 
      be much more aggressive in their responses like Mike Wallace –if they are going to continue to reflect the reality of the day and keep their audience…As Mike 
      Wallace said no question should be off the table……

      Yes, I agree it would be lovely to have a first lady from Burger King or Jack in the -Box reflecting America’s first lady than someone who has a mother’s helper and can make  “a choice”  to stay at home… (That kind of stuff
      represent a bygone era in America and it was never a 
      privilege working class people had to begin with…..) 

      in addition, What does Ann Romney know about the stress of holding down a job that pays minimum wages while trying to feed hungry mouths and keep the roof over their head? This is such an everyday reality for working mothers in the labor force–like your mother and myself when I was raising a family……

      Or indeed, worry if she can retain her job and keep her health insurance when her boss gets fed up with her calling out “sick” when her kids temps hit 103 or 104 degrees and their bodies are burning up and becoming 
      limp? 

      Let’s face Ann and Mitt Romney privileged life style and wealth represent the i % PERCENT problem not the 99 % percent solution…And when I hear Mitt Romney calling Paul Ryan’s “marvelous” I feel he is indeed like the man 
      from Mars. In addition, what does Paul Ryan know about life and the challenges facing working families and sick families when he looks like he just got out ofshort pants. 

      Lastly, if Hillary Rosen is any kind of a classy lady she 
      will continue to speak out against right wing propaganda and falsehoods and not worry about Obama. (He in turn should recognize her free speech rights and leave it to 
      her. That’s the grown up thing to do……) Dee

  • Brett

    Circo Massimo!

  • U.S. Vet.

    Obama White House pays women less than men

    http://freebeacon.com/hostile-workplace/

    That’s right American women, Obama really cares about you.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Compared to the last 10 Presidents?

    • Zero

      I read the annual report, and your news article neglected to mention that three of the women on the payroll listed are unpaid volunteers.  Nice try though.  I especially like the picture of Obama that that news organization put at the top–you can really see the ‘wife-beater’ Obama is wearing underneath. 

      If you want to persuade liberals to the right, try not citing obvious propaganda.  

  • aj

    Ann Romney: ” Maybe I haven’t struggled as much financially.”

    MAYBE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • TomK in Boston

      C’mon, Her Ladyship has probably struggled to find good domestic staff – the lower classes are very unreliable these days, and if you find some properly docile illegals the press might get after you. And, with multiple homes it’s very stressful keeping track of all your possessions. It’s SO easy to misplace a horse. At least she has a Cadillac SUV for each coast.

      • Herve Villechaise

        I can’t bring myself to envy Ann Romney. Just can’t. I have a roof over my head, more than enough food to eat, clean clothing, a car, TV, phone, computer.

        • Anonymous

          I don’t envy her, but I don’t think she has a clue what people of average incomes experience. 

          • aj

            Exactly.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

            First to accuse, last to recognize your own innate HYPOCRISY.

          • Worried for the country(MA)

             Sounds prejudicial to me.

          • Fredlinskip

             A better example of prejudicial would be someone who has never had to work looking “down upon” those who struggle to get by.

        • TomK in Boston

          I don’t envy anyone. This has nothing to do with envy, I wonder why you mention it? Like J_o_h_n said, Lord and Lady Etchasketch have no clue about and no interest in the lives of average Americans, and I don’t want such individuals in the WH. As we still struggle to recover from a crash caused by the financial con artists, it’s bizarre to me that a financial con artist (translation of “private equity”) would be considered qualified.

          • aj

            Exactly.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Can you still tell Mr. Roark, “The Plane, The Plane!”?

        • Zero

          Who would envy someone who was born into wealth (Mitt) yet parades around like he achieved social mobility?  And who would envy someone who married into wealth (Ann) yet thinks she shares the same hardships as most Americans? 

          At least Obama, who has actually achieved social mobility, has humility and doesn’t mind paying higher tax rates for the betterment of society. 

          “Envy” … another republican bs word to get idiots to vote against their economic interests. 

      • aj

        LOL

        Stiff Romney: “I can’t have illegals mowing my acres, I’m runnin for office for Pete’s sake!”

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Imagine the terror, of a woman that has to decide what outfit to wear, and which Caddilac to match it to?
        Just your average housewife?

  • aj

    The 1% (politicians,media,hollywood,etc.) are OFFICIALLY OUT TO LUNCH. Its time for a Revolution by any means necessary.

    • U.S. Vet.

      You should be expecting a visit from an F.B.I. agent very shortly.

      • aj

        Looks like your the one living North Korea.

        P.S. Thank you for your service.

      • aj

        Read your Thomas Jefferson. He lived in a Republic. 200 years later, an honorable veteran such as yourself is living in a police state. How do you feel about that?

      • aj

        “Every generation needs a new revolution”

        “A little rebellion now and then is a good thing”

        -Thomas Jefferson (the guy on your nickels)

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

          Jefferson was a man of intelligence and honor, not a street thug making threats of violence.

          • aj

            Jefferson owned slaves dooshbag.

            Hey why don’t you read feettothefire’s post above.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

            So what fool. There were free blacks in the pre-war South THAT ALSO OWNED BLACK SLAVES. I know this must be a shock to you because knowledge is not your thing. And it is much easier to beat whites over the head with your lies, for your own financial gain. You are just another race baiter, with a computer instead of a gun.

          • aj

            I’m not a race baiter. Are you a rascist, or just a bigot.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

      Another thug threat I see…by any means necessary.

      • aj

        Just because I’m black doesn’t mean I’m a thug.Just because your queer doesn’t mean your an ass. Though you are an ass. 

        There are plenty of black queers.I know and converse with many.So your theory about black people hate all queers and so you hate all black people is really crude. my opinion

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

          I really do not care if you are black or red and blue striped. I expect all citizens to obey the law, and not rob, kill or maim other citizens. I expect citizens to educate themselves and LEARN to speak proper ENGLISH. I expect all citizens to not make threats of violence their daily mantra….when openly discriminating against those they deem lesser.

          Too much to expect from you, I know.

          • aj

            Jason would you ever date a black man, if you thought he was cute. Or is the hate you have for the entire African-Americans so ingrained that you would let hate win out over love. If so, I pity you, you poor fool.

  • Anonymous

    Many of you may note that we have a new slug contributing to the forum.
    Karen Frances is her name. You’ll see dozens of her comments posted yesterday . She’s laid out for us all her rock solid evidence in the Trayvon
    Martin case. She’s explained to us that Martin was a thug who deserved
    to die, and Zimmerman was a poor frightened victim of Martin’s
    overwhelming evil. She’s also thrown in a hefty dose of good old
    mindless hate for good measure.                                          
                                   Here’s my concern. For weeks now,
    whenever the subject of this case has come up on this forum, many of the
    great proponents of truth, justice, and the American way have severely
    criticized any of us who would express the opinion that Martin was an
    innocent victim or that Zimmerman was a ridiculous fool who killed an
    innocent person. “No, no,” they would cry. “This is America. We’re not
    supposed to express an opinion about this. We must wait until all the
    facts are in.” “What about innocent until Proven Guilty, they would
    cry.” Boy did they light into any of us who had the audacity to express one of those hated “opinions.”
    Strangely, though, I haven’t seen a single one of these paragons of
    virtue take Karen Frances to task for doing the very same thing. Why, I
    would suggest that her opinions about anyone’s guilt or innocence in
    this matter are far more vociferous and strident than any others I’ve
    seen. But not a peep from the seekers of truth. Not a single reprimand for her obvious prejudice in this case.
    I know they see her comments. There’s dozens of them. Many of the
    justice lovers have even replied to her comments. Most of their replies
    have been favorable. Could this mean that all their claims of reverence
    for truth gathering and patience were a bunch of crap? Could their
    failure to take her to task for engaging in the same kind of conjecture
    as the rest of us, albeit far more demented, be an indication of what
    they really think? Does it really mean they think in very much the same way as she, but they don’t have the stones to admit it?

    • Herve Villechaise

      Gawd. Get a grip, feet. You can’t deal with free speech. You should find some nice totalitarian country to live in. You would be happier.

      • Anonymous

        Look above you. That’s my very simple point, flying right over your tiny little head.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

          Adolescent insults…I wonder why?

          • Anonymous

            Because your head is as tiny as his.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

            More adolescent insults…  You deserve the reply you will receive ____________________________

          • Anonymous

            Jason, you wonderful beacon of objectivity and truth. Here’s your opportunity to show me your righteous condemnation of Karen Frances’ terrible declarations of Martin’s guilt and Zimmerman’s innocence in the Martin- Zimmerman case. Imagine her nerve in making those loud proclamations before all the evidence is in. Why, she’s almost as much of an ass as all the terrible lefty commenters who have the balls to state their opinions here, isn’t she. Let her have it pal. I can’t wait. 

      • Brett

        Boss! The plane! The Plane!

  • U.S. Vet.

    Radical bill written by Sen. Boxer (Dem. Ca.), allows I.R.S. to deny Americans right to travel
     
    http://www.infowars.com/bill-allows-irs-to-deny-americans-right-to-travel/
     
    You always wanted to live in North Korea, right?

  • Still Here

    I find Karen Frances a breath of fresh air.  Welcome Karen!

    • Anonymous

      I find Karen Frances a breath of sewer gas.

  • aj

    “Every generation needs a new revolution””A little rebellion now and then is a good thing”-Thomas Jefferson (the guy on your nickels)Hush up Tom, the Feds will come to Monticello to question you. Ha! North Korea indeed my fellow Americans.

  • aj

    “Every generation needs a new revolution”

    “A little rebellion now and then is a good thing”

    -Thomas Jefferson (the guy on your nickels)

    Hush up Tom, the Feds will come to Monticello to question you.
    Ha! North Korea indeed my fellow Americans.

  • aj

    “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the
    blood of patriots and tyrants.”

    -Thomas Jefferson (the guy on your nickels)

    Tom are you crazy? In 2012 that kind of talk will get you thrown into a Federal Penitentiary quicker than you can say ‘We the People’.

    The 1% have demonstrated themselves to be tyrants.

  • Newyorkcitygirl777

    Re: Mommy Wars:
    I think the point of the comment that Mrs. Romney -not being a working person has more to do with if the would be President is asking someone about economic issues then that person needs to have an informed educated opinion. I’m a working mother but I wouldn’t have an educated opinion on scale with advising a president. I can give an opinion but it isn’t going to have all the necessary factors in it that a president would have to consider when making decisions for a country.

    • aj

      What up NYCgirl. I live in Morris Heights. Bx Community Board 5. Where you at?

  • Newyorkcitygirl777

    Re: Zimmerman- A 17 year old is dead and he shouldn’t be and someone has to be held accountable for his death. Zimmerman pursued Trayvon and in that pursuit scanned him. How would you feel being followed? There are two reactions, fight or flight, Trayvon did both. First he tried to get away, then he stood his ground. Why are his rights less than Zimmerman’s. Zimmerman’s attorney said was scared, no- Mr. Zimmerman is not scared, he is inconvenienced, scared is the scream that Trayvon let out when faced with a gun pointed at him- that is scared, knowing your physical life is about to ended against your will. 

    The Stand Your Ground Law cannot apply to people who pursue a possible dangerous situation and then when the agressor doesn’t win he says-no I was afraid for my life-let me go. That’s ridiculous. I could go and kill someone, say there was a struggle and I was afraid so I shot him. The Stand Your Law was intended to protect victims- like Trayvon.

  • aj

    The picture of Tray Martin on the horse is 8 days before he was killed. Look at him, he’s skinny as hell!!!

    Karen said he had lethal fists! LOL

    • Brett

      Autopsy report has him at 6’2” and 150lbs.—that’s skinny!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Alex-Gaites/100002402281302 Alex Gaites

    rich people have choices

    poor and working class don’t have choices they have to work to get food for their family

    actually I find Romney’s wife choice of words very elitist

    • Worried for the country(MA)

       Wrong. All of us have opportunity for choices.

      There are many middle income folks who choose to cut back so the mother can stay home.

      Remember, when they first had kids the Romneys weren’t wealthy so they were making tradeoffs too.

      • Judy

        The Romney’s never struggled.  He had money from his father, and he landed in a well paying consultant job right off the bat.

        • Worried for the country(MA)

          Don’t get me wrong, they weren’t hurting but they still made tradeoffs like all of us do.

          Also, they had their opportunity through hard work.  4 years of undergrad and 4 years for the joint JD/MBA degree.  That was a choice too.

          • Zero

            Gee, I wonder if Romney had been borne to a single mother on food stamps who did not care about education, would he have gone to college? 

            There is this thing called the real world, and in it, Mitt Romney was borne on the primrose path.  Get over it.  The party of “hard work” once again nominated a man from old money.  When are you going to wake up?

          • KarenFrances

            You know what? Most of us posting here were born on the primrose path in the view of most of the world’s people. Who here has ever missed a meal because s/he didn’t have money to buy food?

          • Zero

            America is not the best of all possible worlds.  Pointing to Kenya is no reason to stop trying to improve the quality of life for all Americans.  If you look at history, you will see that the revolutions come about during times of extreme inequality.  The more the right creates more and more inequality, the closer America is getting to a revolution.  That is not a threat, not a promise–it is nothing but the reality of the human condition. 

          • Terry Tree Tree

            You probably wouldn’t believe it, if we told you! 
               Gregg claims to have ‘snagged food’ from other peoples’ gardens, to survive.  I forgot the exact term he used, but he indicated that the didn’t buy, or ask for the food!

        • Worried for the country(MA)

           Also, I don’t know anyone that would consider living with MS as NOT struggling.  I also don’t know anyone who would consider battling breast cancer as NOT struggling.

          Mrs. Romney had the misfortune of having to deal with both diseases simultaneously.

        • Worried for the country(MA)

           The Romney’s lived in a $62/month basement apartment while getting their degrees.  Also, they had their first three sons before receiving their first substantial paycheck.

          Also, they didn’t receive assistance from his father because he believed strongly in self reliance.

          But don’t let the facts get in the way of casting stones when you have no clue.

          • Zero

            Oh, please I lived in an cheap apartment during college as well while my father was CEO of GE Capital, and I didn’t have a worry in the world, and I not once considered myself poor.  You republicans are trying your best to make this guy look like he achieved social mobility, but he came from old money, just like Bush and Bush. 

            How do you guys believe this shit? 

            Go look up Bill Clinton’s bio, and see a real example of determination. 

          • KarenFrances

            Clinton’s uncle was a very successful politically connected car dealer. In most places in this country, car dealers are upper crust. How do you think Clinton managed to get Sen. Fulbright and Gov. Winthrop Rockefeller pulling strings for him to evade military service?

            I recall seeing the house Clinton grew up in on C-SPAN. It was a nice, large house. He did not grow up in poverty or anything like poverty.

          • aj

            Good morning Karen. How R U? :)

          • Zero

            He grew up with a single mother, like Obama.  I can’t recall any president in our generation who has come from more humble beginnings.  And to state the obvious, Clinton didn’t have a dad who ran a car company. 

            Thanks for your historical insight, but I still stand by my point (although I’m not sure you were trying to dissolve my point).

          • Karen Frances

            I’m just trying to be accurate. Clinton did not grow up in humble circumstances.  He was well fed and well clothed and had many advantages.  

            Obama did not grow up deprived, either.  

          • Terry Tree Tree

            MANY people have rich relatives, that DO NOTHING to help them!
               As a sole-surviving son, Bill Clinton would have been precluded from combat service, without MAJOR adjustments. 
               The film ‘Saving Private Ryan’, was about that Law, named after Five Brothers, that served together, and died on the same ship!  I forgot their last name, the name of the Law.

          • Worried for the country(MA)

             I’m not republican.

            btw – I didn’t see the hypocrites complain that John Forbes Kerry was rich (much richer than Romney) or JFK was loaded.

            Memo to Zero, they are all rich.

          • Zero

            You are a republican, quit trying to kid me and yourself.  Second, I grew up rich, and I have no problem with rich liberals because they are humble enough to admit that they are more lucky than self-made.  Clinton, Kerry, Obama are all more humble and less narcissistic than any republican.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            People tried to paint Kerry’s wife as an average stay-at-home-mother?

        • Anonymous

          All of the money Mitt Romney inherited from his father was donated to Brigham Young University.  Mitt was already successful when his father died.

          It is reality that some people are smarter than others, some will be more successful than others, and that most who become successful will have earned it through their own intellect and skill.  Being born into the Romney family undoubtedly helped Mitt, but an excellent education, hard work, and superior skills insured his own success; education and hard work are available to everyone.  It should not be the role of the government to equalize the outcome for everyone.

          • Zero

            Romney has never lived a day outside the upper class.  The guy was born on third base, but he says he hit a triple.  And you buy his bs.

            The guy had more opportunity than anyone, yet he tells people who grew up on food stamps to “work harder.”  You think Romney would have got into Harvard if he were borne to a couple of poor southern rednecks. 

            You republicans need to take notes form Clinton and Obama who have actually lived outside the upper class.    

          • Anonymous

            So what would your advice be for the “people who grew up on food stamps?”  I think “study hard, get an education, and work hard” should be right up there at the top of the list.

          • Zero

            My advice is to hold up  Germany as an economic model: free health care, free college education–that is probably the closest economic conditions a country can have to achieving equal opportunity.  Right now, republicans are the political party stopping America from being more like Germany.  My advice to the poor is to get off the religion and start a revolution, because your avenues for prosperity are constantly being strangled by the republican party and at the democrat party by capitulating with the right.   

      • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

        Pray tell… exactly how un-wealthy were the Romney’s when they when they first had kids?  

  • U.S. Vet.

    Since the Obama White House pays women less than men,
    http://freebeacon.com/hostile-workplace/

    would it be a fair assumption to call President Obama a male-chauvinist?  Or even a misogynist?

  • Still Here

    I think we’re learning a lot about the animosity between the African American and Hispano American communities through this episode.  My guess is that it has a lot to do with the current economic malaise and competition for jobs.  

    I think other Americans would do well to stay out of this confrontation so these groups can move towards healing.

    • aj

      My neighborhood there is twice as many puerto ricans as blacks, and we get along fine. My cousin Anthony is half puerto rican.

      I appreciate your call for patience and healing, but I don’t agree with your conclusion. The Sanford P,D, on behalf of the Seminole county D.A. told Tracy Martin there would be no arrest. That was the only issue here, until 47 days later, after much protest and public scrutiny they arrested George.

      • Worried for the country(MA)

         IF that was the only issue then we would be much better off.

  • JonS

    More crap from Jack Beatty-Axelrod/Plouffe. Obama’s War on the Truth began with his Buffet Rule distraction. The disguised cap gains tax increase generates little or nothing as far as increased tax revenue ($4.0 billion/yr), no deficit or debt reduction, and by all accounts is terrible public policy in that it hinders economic growth.  So why does Obama tout this nonsense that he first claimed would “raise enough money to stabilize our debt and deficits”? Solely to pursue his divide and conquer campaign strategy. Tax fairness–what a joke when the top 1% of US taxpayers earn 20% of all income but pay 38% of all income taxes ; the top 10% earn 45% of the income and pay 70% of all taxes. However this nonsense may appeal to Obama’s coalition of the ignorant, uneducated and poorly educated.

    Having abandoned Simpson-Bowles, Obama has proposed no budget to address our national problems—and is now substituting campaign attack politics for constructive solutions, using tough sounding speeches, rank populism that appeals to his coalition of the hopelessly stupid and political soundbites. Populism has become the substitute for policy as Obama demonizes Big Oil, Big Pharma, insurance companies,Wall Street ,the banks, the Supreme Court and just about anybody who doesn’t support his candidacy. 

    Obama promised in 2008 to help unite America and commit us to a higher purpose. Now, he selectively demonizes segments of US society and business, attacks Republicans and fails to offer comprehensive policies to get America moving forward on a bi-partisan basis. Another 4 years of an Obama presidency would offer no hope, change for the worse, and no leadership.

    • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

      And I find it amusing that you’d scoff at $4 billion a year… if that’s even a true estimate, yet the Right always pretends that every penny saved by going after NPR or arts grants matters.   

      • Gregg

        NPR funding doesn’t make any difference to the budget, it’s still state run propaganda and should not receive a penny. Do you support he Buffet rule which would not do squat but make bitter people feel better about socking it to the rich?

      • JonS

        Totally irrelevant comment. If the tax generates nothing (the $4.0b estimate I used came from the Congressional joint committee on taxation), then why is Obama touting such nonsense as the hallmark of his campaign? Because the only way he can distract the American public from his failure as a president is by setting groups up against one another. So much for “one America, not a blue America or red America”. One a totally despicable and cynical strategy.

  • Gregg

    12 secret service agents are accused of diddling with prostitutes on the Obama party tour in Columbia. Typical.

    • Brett

      Now we are seeing your true nature…I suppose you just care about prostitutes, that’s all, right?

      • Brett

        And polar bears…the bears…

        • Gregg

           I have no idea what you are talking about.

          • Brett

            Your anti-global warming post from last week designed only to provoke, then when called on it you said you were glad to hear polar bears were doing okay, that’s all, remember? This post is of the same variety. It’s purpose is to simply get a rise out of people…So, what’s your point? The SS guys were dealt with quickly, at least. In the context of your post, what do mean when you say ‘typical’? 

            Or are you going to play dumb again? 

          • Gregg

            The point is Obama is a party animal running an undisciplined administration. Sorry that doesn’t get a rise out of you but it’s news this week and that’s the topic.

            You missed the whole point about the polar bears. Remember this?

            http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/05/12/new-bear-species-discovered-ursus-bogus/

            Or the heartbreaking animation in Algore’s move?

            It’s a lie, it’s designed to evoke an emotional response. My point is if AGW is a problem then deal with it truthfully. The polar bears are not in danger, find another argument, that’s all.

            The fact that you and others projected all kinds of devious motivations on me while telling me what I think about issues is not in my control. All I said was the bears were fine.

          • Brett

            You didn’t say so at the time; you said at the time your point was that you were just glad to hear polar bears were doing okay. Come on Gregg, it’s this sort of thing that interferes with “honest debate.” Quit playing games.  

          • Gregg

            Yes, that was all I said and it’s true. You took it from there. There’s nothing dishonest it. Honest debate would dictate we don’t try to say AGW is threatening polar bears unless there is evidence. This is doubly true when “evidence” is manufactured as my link illustrated. I’m all about honest debate.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            Again, Gregg pretends he’s all for honest debates when the evidence from these forums is he’s only here to push far right ideas regardless of facts.

          • Brett

            Again, it’s the shoot from the hip thing…Obama is a party animal? Where do you get this stuff? The SS guys were removed from their post, etc. Enough of you crude charaqcterizations. You make it sound like Obama fosters such things. What are going to say next, he called the escort service and had the hookers sent over?

          • Brett

            As human beings, we do have a tendency to anthropomorphize the natural world, and that tendency by humans is sometimes distorted for political gain. In a way it’s a good thing. When kids, for example, see cuddly Panda bears and think of them as their stuffed animals or cartoon characters, that’s not very realistic, granted. But, we as human beings also tend toward not caring about things that we don’t endue with such qualities. 

          • Gregg

            Just a little truth is all I expect when they want in my pocket.

          • ana

            Obama a party animal?
            Preposterous.  He never was  and never will be.  Quit the lies.

          • aj

            Sock it to him, sister!

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            Gregg doesn’t just post Orwellian lies and distortions…. he’s an EVANGELIST for those lies and distortions.

          • Gregg

            He’s taking lavish vacations all the time. Wild parties with rock stars in the white house. He used to be a coke head. His doctor told him he drank too much. He’s a party animal.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            ‘W’s past?  Even  the parts he admits?  The parts he remembers?

          • Gregg
          • Anonymous

            Rubbish. Complete lies and fabricated crap.

          • Gregg

            Now you’re getting it. That’s exactly what the polar bear propaganda has been. I’m glad you saw the light.

    • aj

      I think Moda called that a few days ago. I guess we have to give credit where credit is due…?..So the guy actually knows about 3! things. Diamonds, good music(his opinion), and South American brothels!!

    • ana

      Typical?

      • Gregg

        From my perspective, yes. I may have been a bit snarky though. My bad, I’ve been testy.

    • Anonymous

      Typical of what? That some Secret Service agents have shown bad judgment. Or, that this is Obama’s fault.
      You are real piece of work. The level of partisan bull is hilarious. 

      • Gregg

        I think it’s typical of the party atmosphere, huge entourages and lavish extravagance while people are hurting. The GSA scandal is the same thing. There are more.

    • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

      All 12? Source please. I heard it was only one.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Agents of the Advance Group!  What does that have to do with President Obama?  Those agents were assigned and picked by the DDO, CIA, were they not?

  • Gregg

    If Republicans can take the Senate and gain in the House then we should be okay with Romney. He will have a mandate that is stronger than whatever moderate inclinations he has. Even if Obama wins he will be hamstrung by Congress but he will not listen to the will of the people as Clinton did after 1994. Clinton deserves much credit for managing the economy in peacetime but there is no way he would have balanced the budget without Newt. No way in hell. Such is the power of Congress with a mandate.

    • aj

      I think the cottage industry created for the impending Y2K crisis(fake), and the insane Alan Greenspan created Tech bubble had a disproportionate impact on increased Federal revenues in the 2nd half of the 90′s. Presidents have virtually no impact on economy. It’s the Fed chairman. And long term Federal Government research that drives economic activity. A la the internet created by D.A.R.P.A. in the Eisenhower years that would lead to the I.T. revolution in the last quarter of the 20th century.

      Also, concerning the balanced budget, George H.W. Bush raised taxes, breaking his read my lips pledge, and that also had beneficial impact on the fscal outlook of the 90′s. Incidentally, Newt, minority leader at the time, defected, and left Bush Sr out to dry, and eventually he lost the 92′ campaign. my opinion

      • Gregg

        Certainly it goes both ways, Newt could not have balanced the budget without Clinton. That’s my point about Obama, I don’t think he would be as pragmatic as Clinton.

        The Y2K thing is a perfect example of how doom and gloom sells every time.

        • Brett

          I’ll agree that Clinton had a healthy amount of pragmatism to his being. I also think Obama is pragmatic, just much less effectual than Clinton.

        • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

          More of your Orwellian lies and distortions? NEWT DID NOT BALANCE THE BUDGET. Newt’s spending cuts were NOT sufficient to get to the surplus. They helped, of course, reduced the deficit, but there was enough revenue from the Clinton 1993 tax hike to create about a 103 billion surplus by FY00 WITHOUT NEWT’S SPENDING CUTS.

          Gregg saw the evidence in the DEBT forum, ignored it and told me to shut up… no one was interested. He’s now back to making the same false claim again.  

          • Gregg

            Evidence? I don’t read your stupid post.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            Sure you did. You just knew the numbers disproved your claim so you decided to restate your false claim in a new forum.

          • Gregg

            Your numbers are stupid I’ve seen them before. I didn’t reread them. You have a history of implying your own numbers are OMB numbers but I caught you. Your math is myopic and static in a highly nuanced, dynamic world. I’m not going to waste my time. You posted your insanity, fine. If anyone wants to accept your false premises, projections and blinded interpretations then God bless them.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            Bull crap Gregg… I never calculated those particular numbers before.

             What I did in the past was disprove your OLD claim that if CBO projected 200 billion deficits from 94 on… then if there was a balanced budget by 98, then if deficit reduction didn’t come from revenue… where were those 800 billion in total spending cuts? Of course they never existed.

            The defect in the argument you stole from the Orwellian Right source was the CBO snapshot of deficits WAS WRONG. The evidence of that was clear even in the next budget update. They certainly knew that but put out a bogus report anyway.  
            You claim when it comes to polar bears you respect REAL evidence, yet you fall for ANY bullcrap the Right says.  

          • Gregg

            Alrighty then.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Since there was a HUGE race to prevent the Y2K possible disaster, we’ll never know how many major computers would have had BIG problems, causing problems for MANY!

    • Brett

      Being that you are Republican, your first sentence is fair political analysis. However, that’s a big IF…

      Okay, let’s pretend for a moment the ice cube’s chance in hell idea becomes reality and Romney wins the election. What proof can you see in your crystal ball that Romney’s moderatism won’t be what drives the mandate? He’s going to have to move back toward center for the general election, anyway. Santorum did your Party no favors by making Romney push his rhetoric farther Right. 

      P.S.-I haven’t heard Santorum throw any endorsement Romney’s way. While the American voter historically seems to have a short memory, Republican politicians have long memories. This lack of Party loyalty will bite Santorum in the ass when he decides to run in 2016.

      • Gregg

        I think the country is far more conservative than you give them credit for. The moderate McCain failed miserably in 2008 and the blood thirsty radical right tea party fared very well in 2010. I actually think Santorum would have done fine against Obama, maybe better than Romney. That’s my view, I’m sure you disagree.

        BTW, I am not a Republican.

        • Brett

          You are correct in that the country has moved Right of center over the last thirty years. Cain would have done better with a different running mate. She was only good for the base, which doesn’t win elections. You are also spot on with the Tea Party comment (the part about faring well, not the “blood-thristy radical” part, ostensibly designed to mock what you think I think). However, the fascination engendered by the Tea Party has really waned…they’ll continue to diminish in stature as the next election cycle does take its course. You won’t see midterms like the last one, that’s for sure. 

          • Brett

            Sorry about the Republican thing; I guess by the “we should be okay with Romney” bit you meant the American people. 

          • Gregg

             Yes I did.

        • Brett

          You also didn’t answer the question…let me repeat, what makes you think the mandate won’t be the result of moderate Republicans feeling like they are back under the big tent, as it were? 

          • Gregg

            Anything can happen but that’s not what I see in my crystal ball. We’ll see.

      • Worried for the country(MA)

         You mean 2020.

    • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

      Gregg is back to another of his Big Lies that Newt was the one responsible for the Clinton Surplus. Though repeatedly challenged to show Newt made enough spending cuts to matter… Gregg never could. The best he could do was use a sleazy argument concocted by the Orwellian Right that if on 94 or 95 the CBO projected big deficits into the future, then Newt had to be the deciding factor. But the CBO later admitted it was way off in predicting the revenue boom from the 1993 tax hike. Gregg ignored that. When I finally ran the CBO’s projected savings for Newt’s spending cuts… and presented the evidence in the DEBT forum http://onpoint.wbur.org/2012/04/11/simon-johnson-on-debt-and-deficit#disqus_thread
      they were NOT sufficient… that the increased revenues from the 1993 tax hike alone were sufficient to get to Clinton Surplus…Gregg to me to shut up… no one was interested. That he never made those claims. I presented a post of his from last August and he’s decided to avoid that discussion and just repost his lies here.
       

      Unlike Gregg I know a budget has two variables… spending and revenue so, sure, spending cuts from Clinton’s own 1993 bull as well as Newt’s cuts helped. but even without Newt’s cuts there would have been a surplus by FY98 and it would have been about 103 billion by FY00.

       
      Which SHOULD raise the question… why would any reasonable person needs to so desperately cling to lies they’ll deny all evidence to the contrary, and instead become an evangelist for those lies?

      • Worried for the country(MA)

         Are you willing to concede the internet bubble contributed to the balanced budget?

        The bubble contributed much more to the balanced budget than the tax hikes.

        I will say that higher taxes are a valuable fiscal tool to help constrain an overheating economy.  Somehow, I don’t think this was a ‘plan’ but just fortuitous.

        • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

           Of course the tech bubble helped but what does that have to do with the question of Newt’s spending cuts? Clinton and Gore were working on making the internet public back in 93. Remember Newt did NOTHING for revenues. He voted against the 1993 tax hike/spending cut bill. So if he had any effect it’s through spending cuts. Were they enough to create a surplus by themselves? Nope. And I’ll present the numbers again. The Orwellian Right’s backup is a small tax cut in 97 “unleashed” the economy. But cutting capital gains just before the tech bubble REDUCED revenue that otherwise might have been gained. The Right’s arguments are dishonest because they can NEVER attribute anything desirable to tax hikes, and are willing to lie and invent benefits from tax cuts. As for tax rates… the Right loves the Laffer Curve when they can use it to justify tax cuts. But there’s another side of it that says if tax rates are to LOW, insufficient revenue will be created. We saw this happen with Bush2. Tax rates were SO low that in constant dollars revenue hasn’t exceeded Clinton’s last year in all but 2 of the past 11 years. Remember, this is a REVENUE argument… not related to Bush’s spending.  

          • Worried for the country(MA)

             “Newt did NOTHING for revenues”

            Maybe lower government spending ended up growing the private economy.

            Clinton would never have pivoted to the center without Newt.  It had nothing to do with a love for Newt.  That is the only way Clinton could get reelected.  Clinton continued his centrist, pro-business policies because he concerned about his legacy.

            Frankly, I was surprised.

          • Gregg

            Me too and kudos to Clinton. I don’t think Obama has it in him. He’s just doubled down since 2010.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            Your disingenuous kudos for Clinton is betrayed by your belief that it was a good idea that Bush undid the Clinton tax rates in 2001, and in the process sabotaged debt paydown.

          • Gregg

            He’s quite the charmer too.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            It doesn’t matter what Clinton did. The question here was whether Newt was responsible for the Clinton Surplus… the hard numbers say no. You can invent all the other excuses you want to deprive Clinton of any credit.

        • Gregg

          The cap gains cuts helped enormously as well.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            And you have numbers? OF COURSE NOT. It’s just an empty claim. CBO projected the 1997 tax cut would… as could be predicted, CUT REVENUE. If there was tech boom because Clinton made the internet public in 95, then we got LESS revenue than we would have if the tax rate were higher.

          • Gregg

             Alrighty then.

      • Gregg

        Calm down and give Newt half the love I give Clinton. Everybody knows the Contract with America was instrumental to the economic success. You just look silly foaming at the mouth like that refusing to admit it. What idiot does not know revenue is a factor? I just don’t insanely equate tax hikes in a down economy to revenue. Quit telling me what I think. It’s far easier to find idiots who think spending is not a factor. “Quadruple it! Who cares? Raise taxes!” Those are the true ignoramuses.

        • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

          Rewriting your own history again? How Orwellian. Your claim has AWLAYS been NEWT was the one responsible for the Clinton Surplus… such as in this post from 8-8-11:

          Gregg 08/08/2011 11:52 AM in reply to ulTRAX 0 Like Clinton fought the balanced budget tooth and nail. He had to submit 5 budgets before Newt was satisfied. There was no way on God’s green earth he would have balanced the budget, reformed welfare and claimed “the era of big government is over” without the Republican takeover in 1994. No way.

          I’ve asked you time and time again to SHOW ME THE NUMBERS THAT THERE WERE SUFFICIENT SPENDING CUTS TO CREATE THE SURPLUS ALONE… and you refused. And the fact is there weren’t enough. Clinton would have gotten to a balanced budget WITHOUT Newt.

           

          • Gregg

            I stand by it, Clinton even acknowledges it. There were many factors besides Newt. Clinton did submit 5 budgets. What’s with the inane request in caps? That’s stupid dude. You can’t balance the budget on spending cuts alone. What are you nuts?

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            I just love it when you move the goal post instead of concede. So now you’re disavowing your past position without admitting it?  You’re here for honest debate, my ass. It’ll be a cold day in hell before you’ll ever demonstrate any intellectual integrity.   As for your NEW position that it’s impossible to balance the budget through spending cuts alone… I disagree it’s impossible. Sure it can be done. But you can’t pay down debt without those cuts being severe enough to create a surplus… and we know from 1999 and 2001 the GOP will not tolerate a surplus.   So I’ll be sure to quote you whenever you sneak back to your old position. Not that it matters… I can prove you contradict yourself over and over, and you’ll just deny it… then move to a new forum.  

          • Gregg

            I understand what you insist my position has always been but that has little to do with my  consistent unassailable actual position.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            Gregg I could post 10 of your posts saying the same thing and you’d deny you meant what you wrote and I’m  projecting. We’ve been though this too many times in the last year that I don’t know all your lame right wing arguments by now. It’s not that you ever had a creative thought that I’ve seen.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            You determination to EVADE a question doesn’t make it “inane”. Newt did nothing for revenue and his main contribution to the budget was entirely spending cuts. So since we’re dealing with numbers, we SHOULD be able to isolate Newt’s spending cuts from the mix. You problem is you can’t prove his spending cuts were decisive but you need to make the claim anyway. Again, so much for your respect for evidence.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            Clinton acknowledges what exactly?

        • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

           I know this is foreign to your Orwellian penchant, but if you’re going to make a claim then to back it up you have to show your explanation is plausible, there’s a causal link between X and Y, and that there’s hard data to back it up. You’re here making a claim that Newt’s Contract On America was instrumental to “economic success” and “everyone knows this” and anyone who doubts this is silly or foaming at the mouth. Yet you’ve made NO effort to prove anything. You want your empty proclamations to be accepted at face value.  Sorry Gregg, that’s not the way getting to the truth works…. but then no one would ever accuse you of being interested in truth. You only claim you are. If we’re to compare who had better instincts in getting the nation to a budget surplus… Clinton or Newt, Clinton wins hands down. HE set in motion tax hikes and spending cuts in 93 which Newt voted AGAINST. Yes, Newt does push for spending cuts in 95, and he and Clinton go at it, but ultimately they do come to a deal. But these spending cuts are NOT sufficient to create the surplus by themselves and to give Newt the credit, which you do… is to give him credit for the 93 spending cuts and revenue Newt OPPOSED. That sort of thinking is just obscene and you’re finally backing away from it but not enough to say Clinton created the Surplus. You’re still giving the credit to Newt when you make statements like ” Newt could not have balanced the budget without Clinton…” as if Newt DID balance the budget. And even as the Surplus starts, Newt is already trying to sabotage it with a huge 800 billion tax cut in 99 which Clinton Vetoed. When it comes to getting to a surplus Clinton gets 3 points and Newt gets between zero and one. There’s just no equal contribution here, let alone the Orwellian Right’s need to STEAL credit from Clinton. Bottom line is if we followed Newt’s plans  from 93 on… the road to a surplus would become virtually impossible without that those initial Clinton spending cuts and that revenue steamroller.

    • Worried for the country(MA)

       I think that is the country’s only hope is for Romney to win and the GOP to take the Senate and House.

      The inertia of government bloat and waste along with the deficits and debt is killing us.

      We need to do whatever it takes to grow the economy. 

      We only have a couple years left before we hit a tipping point.  Once interest rates start creeping up, we will be screwed.

      Obama has showed himself to be clueless  — in his actions.  What is amazing is he understands the issues but he only gives lip service.  He claims we need regulatory reform but did nothing.  He claims we need entitlement reform but does nothing.  He claims we need tax reform but does nothing.  Instead he offers a class warfare gimmick that will cover one single day of the deficit.

      If he had adopted Simpson-Bowles he would have been tough to beat.  His actions the past two weeks prove that he is in real trouble.  I’ve never seen an incumbent campaign this early and so negative.

      • aj

        Why don’t you critiscize Mitch McConnell for being unwilling to have the commissions proposal required to come up for a binding vote.

        You are a Republican. my opinion

        • Worried for the country(MA)

           I’m not a republican but I am a fiscal conservative.

          I do wish it was voted on.  It would have been if President Obama had shown the leadership to push it through.

          I’m not saying it would be easy but we’ll never know if it would have succeeded.

          • aj

            No, No, don’t you runaway from my question laddie. You brought up the Bowles-Simpson, so now you have the decency to answer my SPECIFIC question regarding it.

            When you critiscized Obama, why don’t you critiscize the opposition party’s leader McConnell (If your non-partisan). Before the commision was set up, the congress (a co-equal Constitutional branch of gov’t) had the chance to require both chambers of congress to have a binding up or down vote on it.

            McConnell declined. Now you answer my question. Instead of chastising just Obama you should chastise McConnell too! If indeed your so damn worried.

            If not, not only are you a Republican, but I say your yella!

          • Worried for the country(MA)

             If that is what happened then McConnell was wrong.  Some in the GOP were also wrong to resist the panel at the beginning too.

            There is plenty to criticize the GOP about.  I”ve railed about Bush and Cheney and their comments that ‘deficits don’t matter’.

            btw – Paul Ryan was on the commission and voted against it.  His reason was that it didn’t include our largest debt driver – Medicare.  I agree with his point 100% but it was a losing political argument.  Half a loaf is better than no loaf.

          • aj

            Cheers

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Since when is Medicare larger than the Security Budget, including millitary, CIA, DIA, NRO, and the 100-odd alphabet soup agencies?

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            OBAMA CREATED SB BY EXECUTIVE ORDER. It’s hypocritical in the extreme to blame him and give a free pass to the GOP which sabotaged the commission. But then, that’s what Right wingers do.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            True fiscal conservatives differ from Tax Cut Psychos. The first know there are two variables to a budget… spending AND revenue. They would not maintain that after virtually FLAT revenues in constant dollars for eleven years, that tax increases were off the table. They’d KNOW tax rates were too LOW.

          • Gregg

            Quit with the code words. You are a “tax” and spend liberal not a “revenue” and spend liberal. Just admit it.

        • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

          Congress never approved SB and it was formed by executive order. Even then the SB commission never agreed on a plan. What’s being pawned off as the commission’s  plan is merely an agreement by the two co-chairs.

      • Zero

        Do you believe in democracy?  Serious, you think our only hope is to have unfettered political power.  Why don’t you just say you want a right wing dictator?

        • Worried for the country(MA)

           I’m talking about democracy working to save the country.

          Also, I don’t consider Romney a ‘right winger’.  His plan is to restore government spending to historical norms of 20% of GDP and then 18% — over time.

          Unfortunately, the democrats have become more and more left wing.  They have rooted out the centrists.

          You could argue the same about the GOP but I disagree. The TEA party wing is simply for a balanced budget.  I wouldn’t call a federal government at 18% of GDP as radical.

          • Zero

            Listen, I have no problem controlling spending, like I have said numerous times.  But cutting taxes on the rich and starting more wars with Muslim countries is by no means, conservative, responsible, and sane. 

            Pray tell, what would our budget look like if we got out of Afghanistan, tax millionaires at 49% (which is low amongst G20 nations), and tax $250,000+ at 40%? 

            Pray tell, what would our budget look like if we cut taxes for the rich, expand the Afghan war, and invade Iran? 

            Which one is responsible?  

          • Worried for the country(MA)

            Who is for more wars?

            The tax debate is the crux of the matter.  We can see from the “Buffet Rule” that it is a gimmick.  $4B/year is a joke.

            You make the mistake of many liberals of being caught up on tax rates.  You do realize that 75% of the Bush tax cuts went to people making below $250K?

            We cannot survive with a 72,000 page tax code.  We need massive tax simplification. 

            I would be for tax reform that lives up to the following principles:

            1) Everyone pays (maybe starting above 2x poverty)

            2) Maintain the current progressivity — 16% of the revenues already pays 36% of the revenues at the top

            3) Maximize simplicity – reduce compliance costs

            4) Make the corporate tax competitive with other countries

            5) Broaden the base and lower rates

            6) Make economic growth a priority over revenue collection

            Both Simpson-Bowles and Paul Ryan’s plan live up to these principles.  The difference is Simpson-Bowles increases revenues vs. current revenues and Ryan is revenue neutral.

            For me, that is a valid debate.  I suspect we could live with a small uptick in revenue without impacting economic growth IF we truly have tax simplification and reduction of compliance costs.

            Simply raising marginal rates just doesn’t cut it.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            A revenue neutral budget plan when revenues in constant dollars have been essentially be FLAT for ELEVEN YEARS is fiscally  irresponsible.  I’m still waiting for someone to explain why the GOP in 2001 cuts taxes and sabotaged debt paydown… and now Ryan is proposing a revenue neutral plan. The GOP can deny it all they want… but THEY WANT THE DEBT TO GROW… it’s their only hope to dismantle the New Deal and Great Society… the EPA, OSHA, etc etc. 

          • Zero

            You are forgetting that the Bush Tax cuts destroyed the surplus and forced cuts that made room for higher fees to be levied on the poor and middle class.  Middle class income dropped after the tax cuts and before the recession $2,000, while top income earners got richer.  That’s the fact of the matter, and it is very intricate of why that is–one giving the rich unnecessary tax cuts increases their power and allows them set up an incumbency of wealth, while public universities fall apart, the rich can retreat and send their kids to private schools.

            By some reputable  measurements, the wealth gap was closing during the Clinton years (although some say otherwise).  During the Bush years the wealth gap became gaping.  Was this because people all of the sudden became “lazy” from 2001-2009?  Listen, I have a lot to say about Bush and the Bush tax cuts, but he has never proposed a bill that has helped the middle class more than the upper class.  Everything he did in the name of the middle class was a backdoor invitation for the upper class to gain more wealth. 

            The third thing you and the republican party ignore is the simple fact that there is this thing called Demand.  What you and the republicans propose are measure that hurt demand in a demand-crippled economy.  Taxing the consumer class, and cutting from the consumer class is the dumbest economic policy we can have in a demand-crippled economy. 

            We have the second lowest individual tax rate on the rich amongst G20, and one of the worst labor wage ratios amongst the twenty as well.  Labor representation is weak, and taxes on the rich are weak.  There is plenty of room to tax the rich and get the necessary revenue this country needs.  And I propose cuts that don’t hurt the consumer end of the economic spectrum.

            The Ryan plan is an inside the box ideological answer that will make a few people more rich and a lot of people poorer.  It would destroy the middle class and cause a revolution.  Labor unions and the New Deal created the middle class, and republicans are doing all they can to destroy it. 

          • Zero

            And who is for more wars?  …Everybody on the right except Ron Paul. 

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

            Paul is another nut, with different stripes.

          • Zero

            Agreed.  Because he’s another politician who believes there is one economic answer for any economic condition.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Ron Paul insisting on a return to the Gold Standard, when there is NOT enough gold to back the budget, doesn’t make sense. We use MORE of it in electronics and jewelry each year.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

            John McCain never met a war he didnt like or want to get the US involved in,and our toops killed. One would that that he learned NOTHING while a POW, that old fool. He needs to retire.

          • Zero

            I also don’t see how individual tax hikes on the rich will hinder economic growth.  As much as I hate to admit it, it is economically sound if America keeps corporate tax rates at the G20 average (but everybody pays 25%).  I will say that there is a different Laffer curve for capital gains, but Obama recognizes this thus he want to tax that at 30% instead of 39%.  I personally think there is room to tax capital gains even more, but one thing is for sure, 15% is unnecessarily low.

            As you can see, I don’t care about ‘fairness’ or what people ‘deserve.’  I care about the quality of life for all, and I am mindful of the tensions between supply and demand.  Like I said, you flat out ignore demand, and falsely conflate the individual tax as an impediment to the supply side.  When in reality large bank accounts are filled with money that is not apart of the the economy.

            Sorry, I got a lot of time on my hands this weekend.

          • Zero

            I wrote “everybody” referring to corporations.  Yikes.  Corporations are trying their best to put a face to their brand, but, damn, I need to stop watching so much television.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Even 25% of tax cuts for the 1% is FAR more money to those that had it! 
               GROSSLY disproportionate!!

          • aj

            Good stuff Zero. All your posts in this thread are spot on.

          • Zero

            Thanks.  I enjoy your posts as well.  Very sharp. 

    • Zero

      Do you believe in democracy?

      • Gregg

         Sure, that’s what it’s going to give us.

        • Zero

          What do you make of Citizens United?

          • Gregg

            I don’t think it overturned a century of jurist prudence as Obama so famously lied. It overturned a part of McCain/Fiengold which was unconstitutional. That’s their job.

    • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

      Gregg already KNEW these numbers disproved his oft-repeated claim that Newt was responsible for the Clinton Surplus… yet he repeated his false claim here again anyway.

      In looking for Newt’s contribution to the Surplus, if any, we have to remember there were NO real spending cuts between 1995 and 1998. Spending increased each year.

      Hopefully these numbers will display correctly. Columns are:

      The year is fiscal year.

      The deficit is not a projection but the actual number in current dollars.

      The BBA refers to the Balanced Budget Act of 1995 which Clinton signed in Dec 95… already two months into FY96.

      The BBA numbers are CBO projected savings for the BBA over the next 5 years but the Surplus was reached in FY98.
      The BBA numbers come from Table 4, of the CBO’s THE ECONOMIC AND BUDGET OUTLOOK:DECEMBER 1995 UPDATE

      The last column is what the deficit would be WITHOUT the BBA spending cuts. All numbers in billions of current dollars.  

      YEAR–DEFICIT——BBA—–WITHOUT BBA
      FY94 -203.186
      FY95 -163.952
      FY96 -107.431       -22        -129.431
      FY97 -21.884        -24        -45.884
      FY98 +69.270        -58        +11.27
      FY99 +125.610      -100       +25.61  
      FY00 +236.241      -133       +103.241   

      Clearly even without the BBA which resulted in spending cuts from FY96 on… those spending cuts were insuficient to create a balanced budget by themselves.

  • Rev. Jim

    Dear Tom,
        A gentleman caller on Friday alleged that 94% of crime committed was black on white crime. He said check the FBI statistics.”  Unfortunately, your excellent staff could not research and clarify his statement on Friday, but it needs to be made clear that: his statement is false, that unfortunately whites kills whites and blacks kill blacks about the same ratio, that as you excellent show about the “New Jim Crow” made clear most of the arrest of black males are drug related even though whites use illegal drugs at a similar rate as do black Americans, and finally that the 94% number is from racist white hate group web sites, who are not intent on loving your neighbor but hating the other. 
    I understand that On Point like the Globe seldom does editorial correction with such volume of information that courses through your fine program. Yet please consider addressing the above false statement. Ten thousand thanks.

    • Worried for the country(MA)

       I missed that part of the show.

      I believe that 96% of all blacks murdered are by other blacks.  Could that be what the caller was talking about?

      I should check the stats instead of relying on memory — but I’m too lazy.

  • Still Here

    Getting more tea party republicans in the Congress is the only way to possibly control Obama’s spending.  

    • Anonymous

      That way they can spend the tax payers money looking for Communist under the floor boards of the House, as Allen West is doing. 

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

        Or involving the US in NEVER ENDING WARS.

        • Anonymous

          Politicians of both parties have a lot to answer for where war is concerned. Especially democrats. They love to forget the inconvenient truths that Truman was president during the Korean fiasco and Kennedy and Johnson brought us the never ending escalation of Viet Nam. They barely notice Obama’s escalation of the action in Afghanistan or his increasing use of drone attacks, attacks they would roundly cricize if they were used by George Bush. But, we can’t forget George. Iraq was even more of a boneheaded move than Viet Nam. At least reasonable people in the early sixties could be forgiven for their irrational fear of communism. But IRAQ? Really? We won’t hear much Republican criticism of the Iraq mess and we won’t hear much Democratic criticism of Obama’s brutal attacks. War is only bad if the other side starts it. And the American people’s love affair with war? God save us from the American people.

          • aj

            Hear! Hear!

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

            Your commentary is full of so many historical inaccuracies and distortions of fact, it is not worth replying to.

          • Anonymous

            You can’t point out a SINGLE historical inaccuracy. Not one. Please. Give it a try.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

            Sorry pal….I will not waste the effort. Your mind is made up, never to be confused with facts – just like the religious nuts. Have a nice day.

          • Anonymous

            I’m new here. I hope your’s is not the level of “discussion” I can expect.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

            So if you do not get what you want…then insult the person. Stamp your feet,hold your breath, turn blue. You confirm my initial impression with each reply.Thanks much!

          • Anonymous

            insult? Huh??

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

            The system will not allow a reply.

          • Anonymous

            That must mean you couldn’t find any inaccuracies.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

            No….it means exactly what it says. And now I am more convinced that ever that my reply to you was appropriate.

          • concernedcitizen

            I too have learned that most people can only criticize without being able to support their position’s with facts. Vonnegutwasright’s comments on wars initiated by BOTH the right and the left are indeed accurrate. Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq have been near total debacles losing both men and prestige for nearly no gain for the U.S.  Doesn’t anyone remember Eisenhower’s admonition against the military-industrial complex?  When was the last time CONGRESS declared a war according to the Constitutional principles outlined in the document? Can anyone point to an increase in American standing because of any of the above fiascoes? 

          • Gregg

            “Breakfast of Champions” is my favorite.

          • Anonymous

            All of his early work get’s short shrift. It’s as if he never wrote anything before “Slaughterhouse Five.” Try ‘Sirens of Titan” or ‘Cat’s Cradle.” I never did LSD, but I’m sure it would have gone great with these earlier works.

          • Gregg

            “God Bless You Mr. Rosewater”, “Player Piano”, I think I’ve read them all. I even read Kilgore Trout’s book. That was a long time ago.

          • Anonymous

            Not to be melodramatic, but Vonnegut’s, books saved my life at a very difficult time long ago.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

            Actually, we are in more agreement that disagreement. Not enough space to discuss. More a matter of degree than anything else.

          • Anonymous

            Ergo, my confusion at yourangry reply.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

            Not angry…matter of fact.Perhaps too blunt.sry

    • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

      Just like the GOP controlled spending under Bush? The GOP doesn’t want to cut spending in principle… at least not for THEIR priorities. They just want to cut DEMOCRATIC spending.  

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

      Indeed, just what we need…more right wing nuts in Congress.

    • Drewjkellly

       If the last 50+ years are any indication there is no such thing as a GOP fiscal conservative. Financial conservatism occurs only during Dem administrations.

      There were those as Reagan, who pretended to be fiscally conservative. Why then did our national debt triple under his “watch”?

      Here’s the reason:
       his fiscal policies were economically disastrous.

    • Still Here

      Most of you are mired in the past, sad really.  Looking forward, only tea party Republicans recognize the challenges ahead, challenges centered in math and demographics.  Democrats have no solutions for the difficulties ahead, only ways to magnify the current problems.  Legacy Republicans have spent too much time with Democrats in Congress.  

      Feel free to talk about dead guys, but nobody cares.

    • Azrastarr

      That’s not true. I’ve heard both Barack and Michelle say that he doesn’t even like to shop.

  • TomK in Boston

    Worried, you amaze me. You say you’re Worried about the debt. So, why aren’t you advocating higher taxes? We have some of the lowest tax rates since 1929 and the top 1% are getting 20-25% of the total income. Isn’t it obvious that we need higher taxes, especially at the top? Shouldn’t that be top priority for anyone Worried about the debt?

    You like Ryan. Why would someone Worried about the debt like a guy pushing tax cuts? Of course, he claims he’ll make his budget revenue neutral by closing loopholes, but come on. Do you believe that? He’s an ayn rand fan, he thinks taxation is theft and gvt is the problem not the solution. Once he makes his massive cuts, do you really think he’ll work hard to get offsetting revenue? His cuts are so huge it’s not even clear he could find the revenue if he wanted to. 

    And, why would someone who is really focused on the debt be talking about a revenue neutral budget in the first place? Did you ever consider that the real agenda might be to help his rich  backers get even richer?

    If pitches like “I’m a deficit hawk, let’s cut taxes” don’t set your alarm bells off, I don’t know what will.

    I’m very worried for the country too. My worry is that our wonderful middle class society with upward mobility for all is being transformed into a hereditary  oligarchy. The Ryan budget puts that trend on steroids.

    If you’re really worried about the debt, why not look at the budget from the house progressive caucus? It balances the budget in 10 years without squeezing the middle class.

    http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=70

    • Worried for the country(MA)

       The answer to your question is simple.

      Revenues will increase the fastest via economic growth.

      My gut says we could afford a little more revenue now but not much until growth starts increasing.

      Tax policy that increases taxes on the rich will NEVER create upward mobility.  How does taking more money from the rich; help the poor or middle class?

      Don’t bother.  I know the answer.  Investments in programs that create ‘opportunity’ like education and green jobs.

      I took a quick look at your budget and it doesn’t pass the smell test.  It raises the top rate to 65% when you include lifting the cap on SS and adds socialized medicine.  I don’t think this is the path for economic growth.  However, it does look like a serious proposal and therefore deserves debate.  Why isn’t it getting much play?  Will Harry Reid put it up for debate and a vote?

      btw – I suspect a plan like this that punishes business will shrink the economy.  Therefore, any projections of balanced budget is fiction.

      • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

        Worried wrote: “My gut says we could afford a little more revenue now but not much until growth starts increasing.”So what was your position on the irresponsible BUSH tax cuts once the economy picked up? Should we have reversed the Bush tax cuts in 05? 06? 07?Worried: “Tax policy that increases taxes on the rich will NEVER create upward mobility. How does taking more money from the rich; help the poor or middle class?”Your argument isn’t based in history. Social mobility was HIGHER when those taxes were higher. How could that be? Perhaps those high taxes FORCED the rich to keep their money invested in companies as opposed to cashing in and using the cash to speculate in stocks, commodities, or real estate. Freeing capital to do whatever the hell it wants might maximize profits for the owner… but isn’t always the best policy for the greater economy… and since money is a CREATION of government… and the Constitution grants government the power to tax to improve the general welfare… why can’t that government realize those tax cuts for the rich were a mistake?

      • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

        ne of the reasons I hate this board is because it can’t preserve paragraph spacings. Let’s try this again:

        Worried wrote: “My gut says we could afford a little more revenue now but not much until growth starts increasing.”

        So what was your position on the irresponsible BUSH tax cuts once the economy picked up? Should we have reversed the Bush tax cuts in 05? 06? 07?

         Worried: “Tax policy that increases taxes on the rich will NEVER create upward mobility. How does taking more money from the rich; help the poor or middle class?”

        Your argument isn’t based in history. Social mobility was HIGHER when those taxes were higher. How could that be? Perhaps those high taxes FORCED the rich to keep their money invested in companies as opposed to cashing in and using the cash to speculate in stocks, commodities, or real estate.

        Freeing capital to do whatever the hell it wants might maximize profits for the owner… but isn’t always the best policy for the greater economy… and since money is a CREATION of government… and the Constitution grants government the power to tax to improve the general welfare… why can’t that government realize those tax cuts for the rich were a mistake?

    • Worried for the country(MA)

       “middle class society with upward mobility for all is being transformed
      into a hereditary  oligarchy. The Ryan budget puts that trend on
      steroids.”

      Look up hyperbole and you’ll see that statement.

      Ryan’s budget is a 4% cut on the $1.2T discretionary spending.  That isn’t radical and doesn’t harm the middle class one iota.

    • Worried for the country(MA)

       Your proposal includes single payer health care.  I understand that single payer has merits and also major downsides.  The truth is that it will never pass.

      Why does the federal government need to solve this?  If some states want a single payer system then let them implement it.

    • JonS

      Have you ever listened to members of the Progressive Caucus argue on behalf of their budget? I have and they make some of the most unpersuasive poorly reasoned illogical arguments I have ever heard. Just last week I heard Rep Lynne Woolsey (Dem -Ca.) explain the budget. She makes Barbara Boxer and Nancy Pelosi sound intelligent. They are all leading members of Obama’s coalition of the hopelessly stupid. 

        The idea behind raising taxes is to increase tax revenue. And soak the rich taxes that you and others like you advocate  have been well proven to decrease tax revenue , NOT increase it. Why? Because this far too simplistic approach ignores the vital concept of motivation. Instead of raising revenues, it motivates the very wealthy –those with a surplus of income–to spend their time defending their money instead of producing more. Many move it offshore, still giving the rich their high returns, but US workers suffer fewer jobs and lower wages. During the past six decades , tax revenues as a percentage of GDP have hovered around 18-19%, despite changes in tax rates. This was true even when the top federal income tax rate was 92% (1952-3). This is so because higher tax rates inevitably result in less taxable income.

      Did you ever wonder why when the capital gains tax is increased revenues from cap gains are decreased?  Or the reverse , when cap gains taxes are lowered, revenues always increase. That’s because if rates increase significantly, like they would if the Buffet rule was implemented, people would stop selling stocks and hold onto their houses if they possibly can. Conversely when rates are lowered, people are more likely to cash out their investments, pay the cap gains taxes, and move into other investments.

      Finally , no serious politician or economist believes that the Buffet rule will lead to economic growth and job creation. That being so , why are members of Obama’s coalition of the ignorant so committed to the Buffet Rule? To me it really smacks of class envy and resentment since it won’t do a single thing to make their life better or get them a job if they need one.

      • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

        It’s one thing to use the tax code to encourage REAL productive investment… say in basic scientific research, or IPOs. It’s quite another to use the tax code to encourage speculation… some of it just pointless… as speculating in secondary stock trades, or some of which can HURT the economy such as speculation in oil markets which drives up prices.

        When I see a REASONABLE capital gains proposal from the Right… that actually does what they claim… perhaps I’ll sign on. But all I see now is the tax break for capital gains as a backdoor subsidy for the rich to play.  Opposing senseless tax breaks is not class envy… it’s common sense.

        • JonS

          You contradict yourself. You never know if an IPO will pan out until after some period of time has passed. In the meantime , it’s “speculation”, to use your words as to wheter the investment succeeds. I’d rather people gamble with their own money than have the Obama administration gamble with mine by investing in such worthless investments as Solyndra , solar energy, Chevy volt (tax subsidies) and the like.

          Do you realize that money used to invest has already been taxed? Corp earnings are taxed at 35% and when distributed as dividends are taxed again at 15% , for a toatl of 50%? How much do you believe is “reasonable” before investors stop investing?  Will capital then flow overseas with US jobs and wages suffering as a result? And when that happens , then what? Obama will save us with a stimulus plan that only members of his coalition of the stupid believe was successful?

          • Terry Tree Tree

            MANY big corporations in the news today, for NOT paying taxes for FOUR years!
               Verizon made NO money in the past four years?  Did they give ANY executives pay raises, or ANY more pay or benefits?  WHY??

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            JonS wrote: “You contradict yourself. You never know if an IPO will pan out until after some period of time has passed. In the meantime , it’s “speculation”, to use your words as to wheter the investment succeeds.”

            I’m not contradicting myself. Read my post again: “It’s one thing to use the tax code to encourage REAL productive investment… say in basic scientific research, or IPOs. It’s quite another to use the tax code to encourage speculation…”

            Feel free to play word games and conflate all speculation as having the same social value. It doesn’t and the tax code should make distinctions.  

          • JonS

            What about the balance of my comments? How much should capital gains be taxed on top of the Federal corporate tax rate of 35% and state personal income and corporate taxes? Do you believe that at some point investors would stop investing in the US? And if that happened, then what? Who would get hurt? How much do you believe people should pay in federal, state and local income taxes? Is it fair that nearly half of all people pay no federal income taxes? If so, do you think it’s good public policy that so many people are not “invested” (a term liberals love) in paying income taxes? Do you favor Obama gambling with your tax dollars in the many worthless $billions invested in  bankrupt “green companies”? Why should government decide what’s a worthwhile investment that the tax code should promote? Do you really believe that the idiots in Congress are better able to predict “real productive investment” than the private sector? 

        • JonS

          Your comment about speculation in oil markets is also pointless. First ,  investments in oil markets if held less than 6 months are taxed as ordinary income, not cap gains. Second, speculation in the oil market would drive prices down if the market believed significant new supplies of oil were coming online in the near to midterm future. When Bush announced an end to the ban on offshore drilling permits  the futures market in oil collapsed due to concerns that supplies would ultimately increase significantly. Obama talks about conservation and alternative fuels but does nothing to increase the supply of oil. What do you think would happen to the price of oil if Alaskan oil fields were opened up, off shore permits expanded, the Canada pipeline deal was approved, etc? Only Obama’s coalition of the hopelessly stupid would believe that increasing supplies has no impact on oil prices.

          • Gregg

            But we are supposed to hate the oil companies like we hate the rich. Who cares if America suffers because of it.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            The oil executives care to make the U.S. suffer because of it!  They get more rich and powerful, while stiffling off any competition! 
               We had such an oil glut in the early 80′s , that oil tankers were running into each other, and any thing else, to get the insurance money, while the price of oil was JACKED UP, with a phoney ‘oil crisis’! 
               Two-a-month oil tanker wrecks, STOPPED within weeks of the price hike, and haven’t happened since!
               They were extremely common then!

          • Azra

            Increasing oil production isn’t the problem; refineries have been shutting down . . . that enormous glut of crude oil can’t get through the Oklahoma bottleneck. We can’t even handle the oil we’ve already got. Hence, the President’s executive order last January.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            China and India would be buying more oil, and the price would rise, or maybe stay the same for a little while?

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            “When Bush announced an end to the ban on offshore drilling permits the futures market in oil collapsed due to concerns that supplies would ultimately increase significantly.”

            Nice fable… except Bush anounced the end of the ban on June 19, 08 and prices continued UP for another month.

            http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/05/chart-of-the-day-national-gasoline-prices/

            There are any number of reasons oil/gas prices dropped and the reason people cite usually depend on their politics.

            “But if it’s not supply or demand, then what’s pushing oil prices down? A lot of traders say technical factors, from electronic trading programs that pull the trigger at certain price points, to a slew of options set to expire tomorrow. At the same time, cash-strapped banks that invested heavily in commodities could be unwinding positions to get their dough. ”

            http://blogs.wsj.com/environmentalcapital/2008/07/16/oil-slick-why-are-crude-prices-falling/

  • Anonymous

    As long as political parties exist very few will really care about the country first. That’s the reality in the twenty first century. Most people would rather “win,” even if they’re wrong, than see the “other side win”, even if they turn out to be “right.” This is where we live, folks.

    • Anonymous

      “The year was 2081, and everybody was finally equal. They weren’t only equal before God and the law. They were equal every which way. Nobody was smarter than anybody else. Nobody was better looking than anybody else. Nobody was stronger or quicker than anybody else. All this equality was due to the 211th, 212th and 213th Amendments to the Constitution, and to the unceasing vigilance of agents of the United States Handicapper General.”

      from Vonnegut’s “Harrison Bergeron.”  Although obviously fiction, a glimpse of what the world might look like if some had their way and everyone was the same regardless of effort.

  • aj

    If there is a 99% international revolution it will begin in Spain.

  • U.S Vet.

    Is Obama a war criminal?
    http://www.infowars.com/help-bring-war-criminal-obama-to-justice/

    Some believe he is due to his CIA led “kinetic war” in Libya, which left more than 30,000 Libyan civilians dead.

    • aj

      Cut the Obama routine. Put the Republic before party U.S. They’re all God damn war criminals. Impeach every last one of them.

      • U.S. Vet.

        I normaly like your posts, except when you take the name of the Good Lord in vain.  Peace.

        I agree with you completely that war criminals need to be prosecuted, irregardless of what party they belong to.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

          Let’s leave YOUR religion in YOUR church please. Or maybe I am confused and this is a site for theological discussion….

          • U.S. Vet.

            It’s not only Bush that needs to held responsible, but Cheney as well and the CIA for all the bogus mis-information they provided concerning W.M.D.s and and Iraq-911 false conspiracies.

        • aj

          Amen U.S.

          It’s a stupid bad habit of mine. Appreciate the feedback.

    • Karen Frances

      By the Nuremberg trials (crimes against peace), theres no end to the war criminals in the federal government.  Everyone who voted for the Iraq War resolution, at least, is a war criminal.  Hillary, Biden, Kerry, Edwards – the whole lot of them and all the Republicans who supported it. 

      A few years ago there was a poll that the majority of Afghans never heard of 9/11.  Where do US presidents get the legitimacy to be killing little Afghan boys collecting firewood?  Its just the might-makes-right attitude of the US and Europeans.

      • U.S. Vet.

        You bring up some excellent points.  Unless U.S. presidents are prosecuted for waging agressive war, America will be in a state of perpetual war until the Pentagon is forced to stop due to the U.S. federal goverment becoming insolvent.

        • Fredlinskip

           ‘War on terror” is war on a tactic- 
           By definition this implies forever War.

      • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

        OK Karen, you surprise me. You may be blatantly partisan. And we see this in your need to blame mostly Dems in Congress and not Bush. But you have a smidgen of a conscience to recognize Iraq was an illegal war. But while Congress DID foolishly believe Bush’s claims not to want a needless war, the authorization to use force was conditional… and Bush violated those terms.

        So the REAL War Criminals were in the Bush Junta… and I’d argue those in the Obama administration that refuse to prosecute Bush and the others involved.  
         

    • Fredlinskip

       How about the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi citizens killed before Obama was elected. Seems as if this would represent a greater War crime, seeing as we decided to attack and occupy their country for reasons that have been shown to be distortions of truth (that’s putting it politely)

         How many civilians would have died in Libya at Gaddafi’s hands, had we not “interfered?.

  • aj

    Spain is in a downward spiral, and Spain is not Greece. Spain is the whole God damn enchilada. 1936 anyone?

  • aj

    Obama had his chance. He choked. Bring on the Revolution!

    Long Live Che Guevara!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

      What nonsense. Your thinking died out decades ago, and is as dead as Che himself.

      • aj

        Grrrrrrrr.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

          What no more black initiated gay insults? You are not on your game today.

          • aj

            I never insulted you for being queer. But you DID insult me for being black. You Liar

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

            Sorry pal, I told the truth, and as Jack said:  You can’t handle the truth.

            And YES, you did insult me. I find your using the term q-word as offensive as you would find me using the n-word. It works both ways…something you folks always forget.

          • aj

            Yolanda’s a puerto rican lesbian in my building, I’ve known since I was a little snot nose. And she and her puerto rican girlfriend use the q-word all the time when their speaking english,

            So I don’t know if its a Boogie Down slang, or a New York thing, or because their female or what dude. But I wasn’t trying to insult you, except when I called you an “ass” and a “dooshbag” which I still think your both.

            Where you from. It might be a geographical thing?

            I’m gonna go upstairs and see if she’ll come down and type something to you. I’ll be back in 10 minutes.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

            Too funny. Tell the gals I said hi. And yes, queers can use the q word with each other without offense. Just as black folks use the n-word with each other. To outsiders it is an offense. And you know I am right dude.Note that I have not called you adolescent names….grow up. As information I voted for Mr. O in ’08 and will again.

          • Gregg

            Sticks and stones ….

          • aj

            I’ll tell them you said hi. Mr O is half white, I asked you if you would date a all black man even though you seem to dislike African-Americans in General?

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

            I do NOT dislike all black people. Yes, I would date a black man. I like Don Lemmon of CNN, he is cute and smart!

          • aj

            I won’t use the q-word . I know it’s LBGT.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

            Thanks!

          • aj

            she’s out  but just texted me,

            w LLoyd East Tremont and Webster avLa princesa morena, QUEER andgot straight chicks rubbin their tits. quit hatin on my boo.Boricua! Yola out. 

            I think she’s drunk, lol

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

            So I should listen to that person’s opinion? NOT

          • aj

            Her

            name

            is

            YOLANDA

            and

             YES

            U

            should!

            She

            isa

            SWEETIE!

             

          • Gregg

            Okay, Ill say it: The notion of a tipsy, sassy Puerto Rican lesbian named Yolanda is hot.

            Excuse me for that.

          • aj

            LOL

            U’D

            Luv

            her

            G.

            A

            5ft

            latina

            assasin,

            babyfaced

            cute

            looks

            like

            she’s

            11

            in

            curls.

  • Karen Frances

    The Clinton/Republican “balanced budget” is a canard.  The Treasury publishes historical debt by year.  The federal government has borrowed every year since 1957.

    http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt.htm

    I am not going to support cutting Social Security/Medicare and raising taxes in order to have a “projected” balanced budget 40 years from now.  I don’t worry about “our children and grandchildren” because one would have to be blind not to notice they have more and more all the time.  There was something on the news the other day that the cost of going to the prom went from $800-something to over a $1,000 this year because they rent limousines and otherwise spend a small fortune.  And so on. 

    • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

      So what the hell is your point about the government publishing debt. You don’t think we already know that? Where’s the canard when Clinton DID have a true surplus, was paying down debt, and both Newt and Bush2 tried to sabotage that.  Your other comments are just obnoxious, but typical of the grotesque intellectual immaturity and lack of integrity of the Right today. We The People have spent some 14.6 TRILLION on ourselves the past 30 years THAT WE’VE REFUSED TO TAX OURSELVES FOR. Only a spoiled rotten, Right Winger believes they have been overtaxed after that Free Lunch or believes we don’t need to pay for OUR irresponsibility because you think a few kids today are spoiled.

      • Karen Frances

        Paying down the debt from the Social Security trust fund is rather like the folks who borrowed on their home equity and then the house value went down.  Those Social Security monies are going to need to be repaid to Americans as when they stop working.  

        • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

          Gee Karen… maybe NOW you’ll come to your senses. When Bush ran on paying down debt to protect Social Security the logic was that in now about 10 years, that Baby Boom SS surplus will disappear and SS will draw on those IOUs. So the on-budget side of the ledger had to be in good shape with debt paid down.

          So if Bush KNEW that… then why did he push through round after round of tax cuts EVEN AFTER THE SURPLUS DISAPPEARED? And if you believe there was never a surplus… aren’t then Bush’s actions MORE irresponsible?  

    • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

      Give us a break Francis. Your “canard” is a tired, but amusing, objection from the Orwellian Right propaganda industry. They want to credit Newt with the Clinton Surplus and in 2000 were claiming that surplus “proved” we were overtaxed and deserved a tax break… yet if the Dems take credit, the Right claims there was NEVER a Surplus.

      All you have to is look at the Budget Historical Tables Table 1.1—SUMMARY OF RECEIPTS, OUTLAYS, AND SURPLUSES OR DEFICITS to see the budget surplus arriving in 1998. Using just on-budget numbers it arrived in 1999.

      Your obvious problem here is you’re using a crude annual yardstick and it doesn’t distinguish between on and off budget accounts or how one can grow as the other is shrinking. I know from your posts you probably don’t care about the truth… only comforting Right wing fairytales. But others might wonder about this seeming disconnect. And the answer is simple. The budget and debt are related but THEY ARE NOT SYNCHRONIZED.

      Looking at the DAILY debt numbers from http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/NPGateway the peak of Clinton daily debt seems to be on March 30, 2000 and the lowest debt after that on August 3, 2000… maybe someone can find some more accurate numbers.

      5,788,541,874,357.52

      5,640,950,837,276.55 -

      ————————–

      $147,591,037,080.97 = debt paid down….

      Your foolish use of the annual budget numbers MISSED THIS and instead gives the impression there was no debt paydown thus no surplus. The 142 billion EXCEEDS the official on-budget surplus number in the historical tables of about 90 billion… but again revenue, spending, and debt payments are NOT made on a single day… they happen all through the year.

      Getting’ any of this yet Karen?

      Didn’t think so.

      • Gregg

        “They want to credit Newt with the Clinton Surplus and in 2000 were
        claiming that surplus “proved” we were overtaxed and deserved a tax
        break… yet if the Dems take credit, the Right claims there was NEVER a
        Surplus. “

        See how you do? You build your thesis on quick sand. No one said the above, no one thinks the above and you even used inappropriate quotes when nobody said squat “proved” bupkus. Then you get all misogynistic. It really is pathetic.

        • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

          Sadly Gregg… you’re wrong as usual. When it comes to the Clinton years I’ve debated enough right wingers who have made BOTH claims… and I’ve seen their sources. It’s those amusing claims that are built on quicksand, not efforts to disprove them.

          Just because you are determined NOT to acknowledge there’s an Orwellian Right propaganda industry that is not interested in truth only serving the political interests of the Right, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. YOU have used those sources in the past.
          Just because you are determined NOT to acknowledge there’s an Orwellian Right propaganda industry that is not interested in truth only serving the political interests of the Right, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. YOU have used those sources in the past.

          The “there was never a Clinton Surplus” argument is ALWAYS based on the same flawed reasoning…  such as in this article:The “there was never a Clinton Surplus” argument is ALWAYS based on the same flawed reasoning…  such as in this article:
          The “there was never a Clinton Surplus” argument is ALWAYS based on the same flawed reasoning…  such as in this article:

          http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/craigsteiner/2011/08/22/the_clinton_surplus_myth/page/full/
           

          And the “Newt was responsible for the Clinton Surplus” is built on the logic YOU have cited in the past… CBO predicted 200 billion deficits… so because someone said Clinton didn’t care about a balanced budget, then Newt MUST have been the deciding factor in getting to a surplus. You remember that Surplus… the one everyone acknowledged in 2000 when it was used as the excuse for tax cuts proposed by both Dems and the GOP.  

           
          Why the Right has now decided there was never a Clinton Surplus is puzzling, or maybe not. It could be part of some general effort to discredit Dems, or to discredit tax hikes which the Right will never admit do any good. And let’s not forget, such bullcrap isn’t meant for a general audience… it’s meant to manipulate hard core right wingers such as yourself and Karen.

           
          If you were interested in truth as you claim, you’d see through their bullcrap too but political partisans such as yourself are so predictable. Hard core partisans, left and right, have all the emotional maturity and intellectual integrity of 3ed graders. Their main objective is to evangelize for their political religion, to tear down the other side and build their side up. Whether what they believe is even true… they’ll be satisfied with the illusion of truth.
           
           

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            I thought I was being a sloppy self-editor again, but the duplicate sentence was NOT in my original draft. Disqus created it when I pasted the draft to the forum.

          • Gregg

            Yea right. It’s always someone else’s fault. You’re like Obama.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

            It is that criminal George Bush’s falut..along with his corporate cronies/theives.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            Let’s see… I ADMIT I’m a sloppy self-editor, but because I find another problem with these damn Disqus boards, I’m not taking responsibility?

            See what I mean Gregggg… partisans like you are like emotionally immature and intellectually dishonest  3ed graders  always looking for spin to knock the other side down.

          • Gregg

            Ooo that wascally Discus.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            Gee, if I can SEE my still highlighted draft in WORD doesn’t have a dupicate sentence, yet it appears here… then perhaps I KNOW a bit more about this than you. But then we all know the conclusions you draw from evidence are usually wrong. God help anyone if you’re on a jury.  

          • Gregg

            It’s Bush’s fault.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Haven’t YOU  had problems with Disqus, before?

          • aj

            LOLLL

          • Gregg

            There would have been no surplus without the tech bubble.

            There would have been no surplus without a pragmatic President buying into the “Contract with America” and submitting budget after budget in an effort to move forward.

            There would have been no surplus without if we hadn’t been in peacetime.

            There would have been no surplus without the cap gains cuts.

            The tax hikes in 93′ may have helped too.

            You look incredibly stupid (your cut and paste gibberish aside) when you make leaps like: “so because someone said Clinton didn’t care about a balanced budget,
            then Newt MUST have been the deciding factor in getting to a surplus.”

            Clinton certainly wasn’t getting anywhere before ’94. Maybe you can blame that on a Democrat Congress, I don’t know. Newt was just the embodiment of a Country frustrated with Democrats and their unending $200 billion deficits. He took advantage of that to help steer the ship back to fiscal sanity along with a cornered President and bubbling economy in peacetime.

            Now we have unending $Trillion+ deficits. I miss Clinton.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            Fine Gregg… you DO believe in the Clinton Surplus. Then why aren’t YOU challenging Karen’s false assertion? OK, I know as a partisan you never challenge any other right winger no matter how loony. We see that with Moda. No matter how much of an arse he makes of himself, you’ll never correct him.

             
            But then that just means you don’t care if other right wingers are delusional or giving the Right a bad name. But then of course from your posts we know you’re not concerned with reality either.

          • Karen Frances

            That craigsteiner article is written more clearly than your posts, ulTRAX.  I think I’m gonna go with him on there never being a surplus.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            I really could care less what you believe Karen. But if you go with that article YOU’RE the one stuck with all the contradictions of the actual Budget numbers showing. You’re also stuck with the contradiction that in 2000 BUSH RAN using the Surplus as an excuse for irresponsible tax cuts.

            According to numbers released today by the Bush campaign, the Bush balanced budget provides:¨ 62% of the surplus for Social Security and debt reduction.62% of the surplus for Social Security and debt reduction.¨ 27% of the surplus to reduce taxes.27% of the surplus to reduce taxes.¨ 11% of the surplus for remaining budget expenses.11% of the surplus for remaining budget expenses.

            http://romcache.tripod.com/bush2000.pdf

          • Gregg

            “I really could care less what you believe Karen.”
            I’m sure you could.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Then Republicans are STUPID, for proclaiming the Surplus, and using it for cutting taxes? 
               It DID hurt the U.S., because they did NOT pay down the Debt!
              Wasn’t that Doubly Stupid, if they knew there was NO surplus?  Real smart people you support?

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            Greggggg wrote: “You look incredibly stupid (your cut and paste gibberish aside) when you make leaps like: “so because someone said Clinton didn’t care about a balanced budget, then Newt MUST have been the deciding factor in getting to a surplus.””   I know you have no intellectual integrity and rewrite your own past when it becomes embarrassing, but that was YOUR argument you’re calling stupid! For once we agree.

          • Gregg

             Alrighty then.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            Let’s look at Greggggg’s claims:

            There would have been no surplus without the tech bubble. Probably true. But that wasn’t the GOP’s doing. It was Clinton/Gore back in 93 that started to plan to make the internet public. There would have been no surplus without a pragmatic President buying into the “Contract with America” and submitting budget after budget in an effort to move forward.Gregg thinks that by reasserting an empty claim over and over, it becomes real. THE NUMBER SHOW NEWT’S SPENDING CUTS WERE NOT SUFFICIENT TO CREATE THE SURPLUS! There would have been no surplus without if we hadn’t been in peacetime. You’ve presented no numbers for the so-called peace dividend. But an obvious question arises whether defense spending just dropped back to normal from abnormal Reagan highs.There would have been no surplus without the cap gains cuts.Another empty assertion. This small tax cut REDUCED revenue. The tax hikes in 93′ may have helped too.May have helped? All one has to do is look at revenues alone to see they poured in so fact the CBO was embarrassed about how wrong their predictions were. But in the end, we SHOULD see that there are multiple factors in a budget and that the Clinton Surplus was fragile. The record boom could not last forever… which makes it all the more irresponsible for Newt to try to sabotage in in 98 and 99… or for Bush and the GOP to sabotage debt paydown while we were $6 TRILLION in debt.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            Greggg writes” Clinton certainly wasn’t getting anywhere before ’94. Maybe you can blame that on a Democrat Congress, I don’t know. Newt was just the embodiment of a Country frustrated with Democrats and their unending $200 billion deficits. He took advantage of that to help steer the ship back to fiscal sanity along with a cornered President and bubbling economy in peacetime. ”

            See how you do it! You build your thesis on quick sand and just repeat like a mantra it as if that makes it more true.

            You’re back to the lame argument you ALWAYS make… that if the CBO was WRONG in a “pessimistic” 1994 or 1995 snapshot of the economy… then we must IGNORE that the CBO just a few months later is already coming up with new and LOWER deficit projections.

             Months ago I already cited the CBO’s PROJECTING FEDERAL TAX REVENUES AND THE EFFECT OF CHANGES IN TAX LAW from December 1998. The CBO projected only a 59 billion increase in revenue by FY98… in reality they were $174 BILLION off… just for that one year. If you want to play the “1997 cap gains cut ” game, it didn’t go into effect until FY98 and CBO predictions for FY97 were 107 Billion too low.    

            I’m STILL waiting for you to make ANY effort to prove the Newt made a critical difference in getting to the surplus… but then we know you’re intellectually lazy and repeating empty assertions is the best you can do. Pathetic.

          • Gregg

            Dude, 1994 changed things. The first Republican Congress in 40 years changed the CBO’s outlook. Before 1994 Clinton was getting nowhere. As I said. Clinton begrudgingly saw the light after 1994. Why do you deny it? Really, it’s crazy.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            More empty claims? If Clinton made some massive shift, then there’d be a record of this

            SHOW US THE ACTUAL BUDGET LEGISLATION THAT PROVES YOUR POINT!!! SHOW US SOME HARD NUMBERS.

            Did Clinton push for a repeal of tax hikes/spending cuts made in OBRA-93? Welfare reform was something Clinton RAN ON back in 92.

            You have a narrative… a fairytale. What you DON’T have is proof the GOP was crucial in getting to the Surplus.  

             

          • Gregg

            “Did Clinton push for a repeal of tax hikes/spending cuts made in OBRA-93? Welfare reform was something Clinton RAN ON back in 92.

            and he got nowhere with a Democrat congress,dork. You’re hopeless,go back to sleep.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            Moer of Greggg’s evasion. I ask again: If Clinton made some massive shift, then there’d be a record of thisSHOW US THE ACTUAL BUDGET LEGISLATION THAT PROVES YOUR POINT!!! SHOW US SOME HARD NUMBERS.

      • Karen Frances

        ” The only debt that matters is the total national debt. You can have a
        surplus and a debt at the same time, but you can’t have a surplus if the
        amount of debt is going up each year. And the national debt went up every
        single year under Clinton. Had Clinton really had a surplus the national
        debt would have gone down. It didn’t go down precisely because Clinton had a
        deficit every single year. The U.S. Treasury’s historical record of the national
        debt verifies this.

        A balanced budget or a budget surplus is a great
        thing, but it’s only relevant if the budget surplus turns into a real
        surplus at the end of the fiscal year. In Clinton’s case, it never did.”

        “The reality is that the federal government and politicians use a form of
        accounting that would get most accountants thrown in jail. As USA Today wrote in
        2007 , special rules used by the federal
        government allowed it to report a $248 billion deficit in 2006 rather than $1.3
        trillion if it had used corporate-style accounting.”

        http://www.craigsteiner.us/articles/16

        • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

          Why are you posting in two places on the same topic? I respond in your other thread. 

          • Still Here

            Wow, it doesn’t take much to get your panties in a bunch does it?!

          • Gregg

            They stay wadded up.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Republicans USED that balanced budget, to RATIONALIZE Tax-Cuts for the rich!
         A LOT of children CANNOT afford to go to the prom, because some keep driving UP the COSTS?
         Either you’re wealthy, have no children or grandchildren, or are just selfish?

  • Karen Frances

    Regarding the “Buffett Rule” – does anyone know what Buffett’s secretary makes for yearly income? 

    Its such an obvious question, sort of dog-that-didn’t-bark indictment of the news media that in all these years of Obama peddling that no one has asked him what Buffett’s secretary makes.  And there she is sitting with Michelle at the SOTU and still no one asks what her income is. 

    • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

       
      Why does it matter when we know… all things being equal, if two tax payers have the same adjusted income… the one with UNearned income pays a LOWER tax rate than the person who EARNED their money. No, I don’t buy the argument that we’re rewarding investment since much of capital gains has nothing do with either dividends or IPOs. Much of capital gains is from speculation like in the stock market and no double taxation argument can be made there. Some is speculation in commodities markets which can act like a parasite on the whole economy as we see now with high oil and gas prices. Using the tax code to encourage REAL productive investment is one thing. Using it to encourage activities that damage the economy is just crazy.
         

      • Karen Frances

        I kinda wonder if I should be feeling sympathy for Warren Buffett’s secretary and her tax rate!  

        If I had to bet, I’d bet she makes half a million a year and its ludicrous for the Democrats to use her as an example.

        But we ought to have that figure by now.  This is indefensible on the part of the press.

    • Still Here

      Great point. I’m not sure we’ve seen Buffett’s tax return either.  

  • Gregg

    We already knew after the Salahis crashed the party that Obama’s secret service was not up to the task. Then when no heads rolled we learned accountability was not important. Now we’re told 12 secret service agents have been sent home for questioning and 5 additional military servicemen have been confined to quarters. It seems they are horny, undisciplined and brazen. Party central while the world crumbles. This entire Obama episode has been an embarrassing debacle. November can’t get here fast enough.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57414096/secret-service-dismissals-biggest-scandal-for-agency/

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

      And Obama will be inagurated in January…deal with it.

      • Gregg

        Do you really feel that confident? Are you enthusiastic about Obama?

      • Anonymous

        I don’t think it’s a good idea to conjecture.
        However, former governor Romney seems to be in an up hill battle. He’s way behind in getting women voters at this point. The other bad news for him, a recent study has shown that Massachusetts’ health care law has saved the state money over the ten years has been in play despite the rising costs of health care. So how is he going to parse this fact is beyond me.

        He does seem to be very comfortable with making up a lot of lies. For instance, he claimed President Obama is an elitist and out of touch because he went to Harvard for three years. He conveniently forgot to mention that he, Romney, went to Harvard for four years and he came from a wealthier background than President Obama.
        I’m sure the good folks at Harvard are all wondering why Romney would use his alumni status in such a negative way.  

        • Gregg

          You make some good points, really, but accusing a man of lying s a serious charge. How does your example show that Romney lied about Obama?

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

            You have missed Romney’s lies?  Must be tone deaf or asleep.

          • Gregg

            I’m open but Jefe didn’t give an example and neither did you.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

          good points all, and that is why i say Obama will be re-elected. Romney is a fraud to all except those blind amnesiac Republicans who worshipped Bush. Amazing

    • Azra

      That’s for sure, but I’m looking forward to the debates even more.

  • Zero

    I saw last night that Mitt Romney filed an extension to file his taxes.  A hundred bucks says he’s scrambling to find charities after seeing Obama’s tax return.  Either that, or he doesn’t know how to manage his money.  I think it is the former. 

    Well, at least Obama got Romney to be charitable when he normally wouldn’t be–making thousands of peoples lives better instead of sitting in one of his bank accounts. 

    • Gregg

      Nice imagination skills!

      • Zero

        Then please enlighten me, Gregg, as to why Romney would need an extension.  

        • Gregg

          I have no idea, he may be a little busy. I think he has a strong record of charity so your scenario seems a bit contrived to me. Who knows, maybe you’re right.

          • Zero

            Yeah all that charity to the Mormon Church has really help.  Who knows were this country would be if young Mormon men didn’t have the funds to travel all over the world to spread the gospel. 

            God forbid, the money goes to paying down the deficits and a secular university system.

          • Zero

             “helped” and “where” corrections.

          • Gregg

            Alrighty then Zero, you’re off in the weeds. I don’t want to fight. 

            But since you brought up “deficits and a secular university system” did you here what my most excellent Congresswoman said about college debt? She ruffled a few feathers but I agree with her.http://thinkprogress.org/education/2012/04/13/464154/foxx-tolerance-student-loans/

          • Zero

            You’re right, interest free bailouts of banks is so much better than bailing out student loans for actual Americans.  God forbid, we have a country of free college education.  And god forbid people could spend their money in the market instead of paying back loans for an education that is oft required to enter the market. 

            I had little student loans and I worked the entire time in college, but I had an easy time because my dad had moneys.  I had more time to study instead of working 40 hours in a restaurant.  Perhaps, I can tell everyone to buck up and pay back the loans, but I’m not a narcissistic douche bag.  And I would like to live in an America where the middle class can work and spend money in the market, instead of paying off student debts while trying to save up for their kids college education at the same time. 

            Perhaps, that’s the America you want…oh, wait, I know the America right wants, they want an America where people no longer care about a college education–take you shitty wages to church and the market because this rich guy over here needs to keep an extra million or two…so sorry about the rising tuition. 

            What’s the best way to get republican votes…get your kids out of college and into a church.  

          • Gregg

            Alrighty then.

          • Zero

            Sorry, but that article you cited really pissed me off.  Another republican who refuses to make the quality of living in America better.

        • Azra

          . . . and why he’s hiding his earlier tax returns.

        • Anonymous

          I’ve prepared tax returns for 35 years, and I can tell you that more often than not, the information that is required to prepare the tax return of a wealthy individual has not been provided to them by April 15.  It’s why the IRS allows extensions.

          • Zero

            Fair enough, and good point.  I am personally waiting to see if Romney keeps a bigger percentage of his income than Obama.  I think Obama kept 56% of his income.  I wonder if Romney will keep 55% of his income to one up Obama.  But it will be interesting to see the dates of when Romney made the charitable donations, and then we should be able to tell if he indeed scrambled to find charities.

          • Anonymous

            2011 is over.  Any charitable contributions on a 2011 tax return were made before January 1, 2012.

          • Gregg

            Isn’t an end to charitable deductions in the works?

          • Zero

            Thanks.  I suppose I got knee-jerky when I saw the news.

          • Azra

            Do they typically hide their income tax information, when they’re running for office, or is Romney more devious than most?

          • Worried for the country(MA)

             Romney is not hiding a thing.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            WHY?  It’s law that the info be available BEFORE the end of February!

    • Worried for the country(MA)

       His spokesman actually answered this question on one of the morning shows.  He filed an extension because he is still waiting on paperwork to complete his return.  He already paid his estimated taxes.

      btw – your supposition is silly.  You can’t add to your charitable deductions AFTER the 12/31/2011 deadline.

    • Still Here

      Do you do your own taxes?  Because, if so, you’re an audit waiting to happen.  Zero certainly describes your knowledge of the taxcode. 

  • Ellen Dibble

    If anyone heard NY Senator Kirsten Gillibrand and Minnesota Congresswoman Michele Bachmann go at it this morning with David Gregory on Meet the Press, you can see a good outline of where the fight for the women’s vote is going to happen.  It deserves a proper debate with each side able to fully counter the representations and misrepresentations of the other.  I’d like to see more than one Republican, more than one Democrat.  They should be paired two from the Senate, two from the Congress, to have the maximum clarity about what bills have been put forward, and the broadest view of impact, too, statewise, in terms of diversity.  I am not sure how best to call out preposterous statements, made in a vacuum.  Like the idea that women who work in the home are more aware of the price of things they buy than women who work out of the home.  Don’t the marriage statistics suggest that plenty of women are doing both?  Buying goods and bringing in money?  If the breadwinner can afford to delegate the budgeting to someone else, it pretty much puts the household in a “certain class.”  And by the way, for a woman to lose her job as mother, she has to negligent or abusive in a legally justifiable way.  A wave of foreign competition is not going to do that.  And I heard a comment that Romney is for gun control to be in the hands (in the legislatures) of the states.  Oh, great, have guns bought over the state line brought in.  Import your crime.  And what about the idea I think I heard from a Republican commentator on ABC (Paul Gigot?) that to equalize things, why not lower the tax rates on second incomes, i.e., for the spouse with the lower rate of pay.   Did I mis-hear?  I guess so.  If you want to help a wife hire daycare, go for statewide pre-kindergarten availability, which I think our governor, Deval Patrick, is arguing forcefully for.  I do think if a woman is never in the paid and competitive workforce, there is a gap in her resume which suggests a divergence between her experience and skills and what she might like to do later in the workforce.  I’m talking your 80 percent of women, not your mom with several hundred million.  About that I have No Clue.

    • Karen Frances

      Actually, most households in the country have no children under 18; only about 34% of households have children under 18.  If the majority of households have no children, how much support is there for things like childcare/daycare subsidies or pre-K?  

      I live in NJ and in 2009, Gov Corzine based a lot of his TV ads on “universal pre-K.”  I was surprised he did that when the public here is so up in arms about taxes.  (Which are very high here.)I agree with you that the portrayal of the interests of women is very limited.  

      • Ellen Dibble

        34% with children under 18 is pretty high.  Think of a pebble thrown into a lake.  Every such family has extended family concerned about the employment, security, education, etc., of that 34%.  If people are involved (in my state) with Social Services, I believe the State provides child care, pays for many things that otherwise a struggling family would have to manage themselves.  Early education services are available if the children can get rated as a certain percent behind the norm in this, that, or the other.  It seems a sort of universal Head Start would (could) give a boost to K-12 in providing a common foundation for children, a source of community cohesion (if done well), and a chance for women to move into areas otherwise inaccessible because of not families of 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, etc., houses without vacuum cleaners, plumbing, washing machines, gas stoves — you see where I’m going.  “Women’s work” is no longer 24/7 in the way it once was.  I believe our governor Deval Patrick, a friend of Obama’s, as I read, is deciding not to run for another term partly because he wants to advocate for things like preschool for all (at least full-day kindergarten) on a national stage.  We’ll see.

        • KarenFrances

          Ellen,
          I think there are lots of things that would be nice to have. There will be less and less support for things like pre-K as fewer and fewer people (percentage wise) feel its worth the cost to them. Even among the households with children under 18, how many have children who might use pre-K?

          • Ellen Dibble

            I don’t know about Head Start specifically, but studies show that children get a fair start if their experience pre-grammar school gets them on a more equal footing.  Actually, there is talk I credit about offering a longer school year and a longer school day, since children are not needed on the farms in the summer now.  And someone totally on the same page, apparently, as Deval Patrick, was speaking on Moyers and Company this evening, Angela Glover Blackwell, of PolicyLink.  “The American Dream.  “Everybody pull up the ladders,” and make sure we keep “ours.”  Public schools are being referred to as “safety net” somewhere.  The American Dream, the idea of not pulling up the ladders when it gets hot — isn’t that what we’re proud of?

        • Gregg

          Ms. Dibble, a study buy our government reveals Head Start has failed. It seems there is no discernible difference after $150 billion. I am linking a Heritage report but the results are the governments. I definetly support the good intentions of Head Start but it’s another example of wasted money.

          http://blog.heritage.org/2010/01/15/head-start-a-150-billion-failure/

          • Ellen Dibble

            Right below you, KarenFrances answered, and I posted a kind of reply to both of you.  I guess I’ll copy it here.  

            “I don’t know about Head Start specifically, but studies show that children get a fair start if their experience pre-grammar school gets them on a more equal footing.  Actually, there is talk I credit about offering a longer school year and a longer school day, since children are not needed on the farms in the summer now.  And someone totally on the same page, apparently, as Deval Patrick, was speaking on Moyers and Company this evening, Angela Glover Blackwell, of PolicyLink.  “The American Dream.  “Everybody pull up the ladders,” and make sure we keep “ours.”  Public schools are being referred to as “safety net” somewhere.  The American Dream, the idea of not pulling up the ladders when it gets hot — isn’t that what we’re proud of?

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

             
            If you can’t be honest about ALL the conclusions in the study… why bother bringing it up? Oh, that’s right… you’re in the L&D business. It’s clear you just read what Heritage emphasized “the benefits of access to Head Start at age four are largely absent by 1st grade for the program population as a whole.”
             

            And since you don’t want to believe the Orwellian Right ever lies, misrepresents, or distorts… you clearly stopped reading there. But the actual conclusions of the study are not so grim. For instance Heritage decided to omit findings like this…
             

            “The study shows that providing access to Head Start led to improvements in the quality of the early childhood settings and programs children experienced. On nearly every measure of quality traditionally used in early childhood research, the Head Start group had more positive experiences than those in the control group.”
             

            And there are OTHER studies that support long term benefits http://www.childwelfare.gov/preventing/evaluating/cost_benefit.cfm  Heritage predictably  omits them because it conflicts with its mission to paint all federal programs as a waste of money.
             

            None the less, these programs do need more study to see what the CB ratio is.
             

            As for whether 150 billion was “wasted”, coming from you who seems to have no problem with Bush sabotaging debt paydown or pissing away some $2.9 TRILLION just on interest during Bush’s 8 years alone, or a trillion spent on an unneeded war, it’s just more evidence you’re not honest or credible.   
             

    • Gregg

      I had 60 horses to feed this morning so I missed MTP but I recorded it. I’ll usually do but don’t always go back and watch since Russert died. I will today thanks to you. I am very interested in the debate because I don’t see a lot of difference in the yearnings of women based on politics. It sounds like you do or at least recommend the discussion this morning as an example.

      • Ellen Dibble

        I hope you do.  I really like Gillebrand to the extent I’m sure I’m biased, and she was so upbeat and smiling after the interview, wow — while  I found myself amazed and upset at what Bachmann could say with a straight face.  I guess Gillebrand is counting on the rest of America to pick up the baton, so to speak, and run with it for the next stage.   

    • Worried for the country(MA)

       Ellen, did you catch Harold Ford, JR on the panel.  He praised Bachmann’s comments — even though he claimed that he usually disagrees.

      I agree that Hillibrand is a good spokesperson in her demeanor.  Personally, I thought she was spinning and was stuck on talking points but I’m biased too.

      Gigot is probably GOP but he is the WSJ editorial page editor.  He was on the panel to counterbalance Katrina from The Nation.  He brought up the marriage penalty in the tax code.  The fairness of the marriage penalty has been debated for years.

      Personally, I think the Mommy wars and contraception wars are contrived controversies.  No one was worried about being denied contraception.  Everyone understands that Hilary Rosen was attempting to diminish Ann Romney as  campaign gimmick but I don’t believe that will tarnish Obama in the long run.

      • Ellen Dibble

        Hi, Worried.  You’ve put together a nice little review for me/us of the morning talk shows.  Geithner managed to be on every show, sometimes simultaneously, pretty much saying what we know already.  Face the Nation had an extra half hour here, but not to worry, Geithner was on CBS and NBC simultaneously.  
            Anyway, I saw Harold Ford, Jr., and have to say he wasn’t going after the kind of facts that I thought needed clarification.  Mostly a lot was thrown out this way and that without much framing and validation.  
            Mommy wars is not the same as the changing role of paid work in the lives of women versus the “standard” that the AARP crowd probably uses, where post World War II, women were supposed to give up all the jobs they had taken over and return them to the returning GI’s.  I was too young to understand it.  
           But motherhood and apple pie are our sacred cows, and the Republicans know how to ring that bell.  I suppose if our 53% of voters (women) stayed home and gave all the jobs to men today, we’d have zero unemployment, so there’s an idea whose time has come, perhaps.  Maybe Romney can persuade the nation’s “better half” to let the men be the sole breadwinners once more.  Maybe we’d see the righteousness of that way, consult the New Testament, and make the same choice his wife made.  But I don’t see anyone I know or know of who is remotely in her position.  Would it be a mistake for her to take a job that a more needy American could be paid for?  Women used to say that.  Older Americans say that:   We have other responsibilities; let other people who need the jobs take them.  
           The working mother flak that flew around last week was a bit absurd; you’re right.  It was an opportunity for an old saw to be played.  But I think absurd issues and arguments are going to decide this election, sad to say.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Lady, there’s TOO many dead-beat dads (?), and TOO many single working mothers, to try to go back to that out-dated model! 
             Dead-beat-dads get jobs, and DON’T pay support for the children they BRAG about starting, claiming to be a man! 
             WHY should a single-abandoned-working mother give up a job for such a rat?
             My children’s mother left, when the oldest was 6, hardly saw, or communicated with them except to cause problems, and NEVER paid a cent of the child support that she was told to by the court!
             If custodial parents are not allowed to work, how high would the Welfare rolls be?

      • Gregg

        I’ve always had a lot of respect for Harold Ford Jr., he’s a good man. When Democrats won control of Congress in 2006 he was in the running for Speaker. I think Democrats would have been far better served (and America too) if Ford had become Speaker of the House instead of Pelosi.

  • Karen Frances

    Some more from that craigsteiner article for UlTRAX:

    The fact remains that the total national debt, as explained above, is the only real measure of what we owe. We can discuss the meaning of the different columns of the CBO documents and what they do and don’t include, and we can argue about the accounting tricks that the federal government uses for political reasons. But the fact remains that theBureau of the Public Debt is responsible for the daily reporting of the total national debt. Regardless of how politicians play with the budget numbers, the current national debt reported by the Bureau of the Public Debt is what we owe. If, at the end of each year, we owe more than we did the previous year, politicians can call it a surplus until the cows come home–but the fact remains that we owed more money than we did the previous year. Playing accounting and political games to call it a “surplus” doesn’t change the fact that we’re even more in debt than we were the year before.During the Clinton years, the total national debt increased every year. Only in Washington D.C. would that somehow be considered a “surplus.” 

    • Zero

      I’ve posted this video before, but perhaps you didn’t see it.  You voted for McCain, right?  Watch this from 2000–I especially like the part when McCain calls out Bush for wanting to give tax cuts to the rich that would in turn cancel the surplus.  

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk0-bR3fwZo&list=PL1AC1D44F5431005A&index=2&feature=plpp_video

      • Hidan

         8 years before McCain sold out to the extreme right of his party. While claiming the title of the “Maverick” Mccain belly-up to everything the far right republican wanted. With the exception of correcting the women who said obama was a Muslim.

        Like Romney Mccain ended up running against himself.

        • Zero

          I don’t know what to make of the republican party on a certain level–it is pretty obvious that a group of rich guys selected Romney, while the crazy electorate wanted another crazy, and I am dead certain the rich guys kept financing Gingrich so he would snag some votes away from Santorum, giving Romney room to win the election. 

          I suppose if Romney would have said he’s really pro-life, there would be no way he would have won.  So he did have to put himself in a political straightjacket.  It’s like the elite wants the slightly more sensible, but they know they have to say stupid shit to appease the idiots who vote against their economic interests. 

          I saw an interview of Jon Huntsman on Charlie Rose after he dropped out, and Huntsman gave the republican party the biggest backhand I have ever seen. You should check it out.

          In fairness, Romney was a data-driven governor, which would make anybody more liberal I suppose.  But he is certainly one of the “boys” actively trying to establish and maintain corporatocracy.

          But yeah, I’ve notice that McCain is coming back down to reality recently.  I saw him say that Citizens United is the worse decisions since the pre-Civil War era.

          • KarenFrances

            Zero, I don’t think I’d judge the Republicans by the primary voters because SO few people vote in primaries. I voted in 2008 (for Obama) because Corzine moved the primary to February to help Hillary but its back to June now, as usual, and almost no one will vote. If I lived in an early primary state, you couldn’t stop me from voting but most people simply do not want to get invested in the nominating contest.

          • Zero

            Did it not look like the majority of republican voters wanted someone more conservative than Romney?

            We’ve already lost a lot of democratic voice (via Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush), but with the republican party, it is more obvious that there is little democracy going on over there.

      • KarenFrances

        I voted for Obama in 2008; haven’t voted any Rs since before 2000. Will wait to decide this year between Obama and Romney.

        • Azra

          Sorry about the other day, when I assumed you were a Republican. I know I certainly wouldn’t want anyone to think that about me.

          • Gregg

            I’m just wondering Azra, does your niceness quotient rely on ideology?

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            Brown-nosing even AGAIN?

            Ya know Greggy old boy, you wouldn’t need to seek friends or allies if you were here for that honest debate you claim you’re here for.

    • Zero

       Here is a chart from the CBO where you can see debt decreasing during the Clinton years.

      http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/117xx/doc11766/2010_08_05_federaldebt.pdf

      • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

        Debt doesn’t correlate exactly to the budget. I buy a million in savings bonds in 1991. The government has no control of when I actually cash them in.

        • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

          To be a bit more precise… say I buy a million in savings bonds in 1991. The government has no control of whether I cash them in on September 30th 1996, the last day of FY96, or October 1… the first day of the FY97. If it’s the latter, then the FY96 books will show $1 million more in debt… regardless of whether the actual federal budget was running a surplus or not.   

    • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

       
      And you’re not posting this to that original thread why? To distract from my rebuttal? Just because we have annual budgets doesn’t mean debt is synchronized precisely with it. Debt has a “life” of its own depending on immediate borrowing needs or when debt is paid off. THAT’S why using the annual end of FY number is not that enlightening and why the Treasury posts DAILY numbers.

      The author of that hack piece surely KNOWS the actual budget numbers and KNOWS the daily numbers exist. He no doubt KNOWS the Surplus was the excuse the GOP gave for needing a massive tax cut before much debt was paid down. But since all of the disprove the latest Orwellian Right claim there was Clinton NO surplus, so they must be ignored. As it’s been said… figures don’t like but liars can figure. If I were you I’d be pissed someone one peddling this garbage, but no doubt you’ll eat it up.
       

      • KarenFrances

        ultras, I assure you I have no malicious ulterior motives for not continuing to post under my original comment. Just thought it was easier to see if I posted a new one.

        That craigsteiner article admits that Bush ran up the debt plenty so hardly a partisan hack. My own take is that things are not simple but politicians like to tell us they are, i.e., both the Republicans and Democrats taking credit for a balanced budget that never was.

        • KarenFrances

          ipad turns “ulTRAX” into ultras (may do it again here). I’ve noticed it turns the senator from MN’s name to Frankenstein.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            You’d be surprised what my battered old keyboard turns your name into. I have the decency to correct it.

          • Gregg

             Be nice.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

             
            More of your typical partisan hypocrisy Greggy? You don’t chastise the person who DOES not correct their errors but go after the one who does? You’re not in third grade anymore. Please grow up.

          • Gregg

            Karen Frances has plenty of decency. Be nice.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            Brown-nosing again?
            Perhaps Karen does, you don’t.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      ‘W’ campaigned, in 2000, that he would make the Surplus BIGGER!  Instead, we LOST, the surplus, over 4,000 U.S. Millitary lives, THOUSANDS wounded, many permanently, Hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives, Millions of Iraqis became refugees, and a few other matters that are trivial to you?

  • Hidan
  • Worried for the country(MA)

    Obama’s charitable giving before he upped it as a campaign gimmick:

    BARACK OBAMA’S EARLY PASSION FOR FAIRNESS:

    YEAR ………………INCOME…………….CHARITABLE……….PERCENT 2000…………………$240,505……………….$2350………………0.98%2001…………………$272,759……………… $1470…………….. 0.54% 2002………………….$259,394………………$1050……………….0.41%2003………………… $238,327………………$3400……………….1.4%2004………………….$207,647………………$2500……………….1.2%

    Source: Presidential Tax History, Obama Tax Returns (2000-2004)
     

    • Worried for the country(MA)

       Sorry.  The formatting stinks.

      • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

        Watch it… Gregg will blame you for this quirky  Disqus board.

        • aj

          Disqus is EEEEEEVIL.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            Disqus does have problems… aside from allowing anonymous posts without a true account like WBUR once required. Disqus just doesn’t format posts correctly… my pet peeve being how Disqus ignores paragraph spacing leading to long run-on posts that are difficult to read. But to introduce C&P errors… not just duplicating lines but creating THREE copies of lines is just too weird. I’d seen it happen before but assumed I was a sloppy self-editor… and I am. I often rush to post and don’t proof read. But this time I still had the highlighted texts in WORD so I know, for once, the problem wasn’t me.  

  • Worried for the country(MA)

    Hopefully this is better.

    Obama’s charitable giving before he upped it.

    Year   Income      Charitable      Percent
    2000   $240,505   $2350            .98%
    2001   $272,759   $1470            .54%
    2002   $259,394   $1050            .41%
    2003   $238,327   $3400           1.4%
    2004   $207,647   $2500           1.2%

    Yes, this is his choice.  Everyone needs to reach their own conclusion.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/PQOCSU3NJ5J6SSQBEM5YBFCPZY Jason__A

      who cares?

      • Gregg

        Zero.

      • Worried for the country(MA)

         I don’t.

  • aj

    Hey Mainstream Media, what part of Hussein Obama’s trip to Colombia do you want to spend all weekend covering?

    The fact that the entire western hemisphere has reached consensus that we should do away with the failed prohibition of drugs except for His Excellency Obama and all you comfy elitist liberals who live in lala land and can’t be bothered?

    Or,

    Prostitutes?

    MainstreamMedia:        Prostitutes, DEFINITELY Prostitutes.

    • Gregg

      AJ, I’m with you on the drug thing.

      Do you think the Presidents security was compromised? Maybe by a hooker with a bug? Should heads have rolled after the Salahis crashed the party? They could have been anyone. Have you ever seen any old James Bond movies where beautiful spies use their sexuality to do dastardly espionage? If Monica Lewinski was one of those then Clinton was a sitting duck. We were lucky his reckless behavior didn’t do more damage than it did. I think this prostitute thing is a big deal, not that you said it wasn’t.

      • aj

        I told you Clinton was slime. But everyone loves him because he stuck it to poor mothers on welfare, like he was Reagan’s red-headed step-child. Here’s a doozie about Clinton worth reading…

        “Lest readers think I’m being unkind about Gov. Bill Clinton, let me evoke the man in his youthful prime. Clinton said this week on a talk show promoting his new book Back to Work that he can’t see why an ex-president couldn’t return to the job after previously serving two terms.
        Back in 1979 our friend Tim Hermach, now fearless leader of the Native Forest Council and breathing the righteous air of Eugene, Oregon, was a businessman seeking commercial advantage. In 1979 this search took him to Little Rock, Arkansas, where an associate said the swiftest way of getting a certificate of origin necessary for a rebar (reinforcing steel for construction) deal was by conferring personally with the new governor of the state.

        In short order a dinner was arranged with young Governor Bill at the Little Rock Hilton. Tim recalls that they were scarcely seated before Bill was greeting a pretty young waitress in friendly fashion, putting his hand up her dress while announcing genially to the assembled company, “This woman has the sweetest cunt in Little Rock.”

        Tim, an Oregon boy by origin, tells us he listened with burning ears and mouth agape as Bill talked of womanhood in terms of astounding crudity. Badinage notwithstanding, some business was transacted. Hermach tells us that Governor Bill “very openly, nothing shy about it, said words to the effect that our end use certificate would cost about $10,000″, said transaction being of a personal, informal nature.  “Since ours was a $2 million deal, we didn’t care,” Tim recalls.
        These tractations concluded, Governor Bill repaired to the Hilton’s nightclub with boon companions, where they cavorted lewdly with sundry flowers of Little Rock before repairing to bedrooms in the upper regions of the hotel.

        Back to work indeed.”

        -Alexander Cockburn
        counterpunch.org

        • Terry Tree Tree

          I didn’t vote for Bill Clinton the first time, because of the questions left by White-Water-gate, and some other problems.  I did vote for his second term, because the budget was looking better, and the job market was getting better.
              Compared to ‘W’, I’d take Clinton many times over.
             I voted for Obama, because we needed to break the glass-ceiling on the top job of the nation, AND Republicans were STILL championing ‘W’, and his failed and false policies!
             ‘W’ was STUPID, if he campaigned on making the Surplus BIGGER, if there was NO surplus!
             ‘W’ was corrupt,  and morally bankrupt, as far as I can tell, sluffing attention off, with his ‘bad boy’ smirk, and non-sensical answers.
             I couldn’t stomach another candidate from the party that would submit THAT as the BEST they have!  Don’t know if I ever will!

  • aj

    Trayvon Martin: “And, the eighth and final rule: if this is your first night at Fight Club…you have to fight”

    George Zimmerman: “Na ah, I’ll just shoot you in the chest with my Tec 9 millimeter.”

  • aj

    “Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who’ve ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. Damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don’t need. We’re the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War’s a spiritual war… our Great Depression is our lives. We’ve all been raised on television to believe that one day we’d all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won’t. And we’re slowly learning that fact. And we’re very, very pissed off.”

    -Tyler Durden

    • KarenFrances

      aj, that should be everyone’s worst problem, having a boring job.

      • aj

        Foxconn? Wage slavery. That’s Un-American. Or at least its Un-Jeffersonian. 

  • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

     Leaving the Clinton era behind and getting back to 2012, the week in the news, and the Trayvon Martin killing… there’s a question about the Zimmerman 911 tape whether he mutters something about f__king coons. If it does, it would seem to indicate a racial motive. Some alleged audio experts said Zimmerman was uttering “f__king cold”. I do some occasional consults on EVP audio and have some rather expensive audio software like Diamond Cut Forensics 8. I’ve run the Zimmerman recording through every conceivable audio filter… with names like the “forensics audio sibilant clarifier” and “exaggerated second harmonic overtones”. There are cell phone noise filters to extract voices from different types of cell phone systems. I know there are so many settings in software packages like this that someone can modulate an attack curve and “bend” sound in certain ways, but for the life of me I can’t get anything like “f__cking cold”. The “n” sound after the “coo…” sound just won’t go away.  I think certain Cable Networks have retracted way too soon.   

    • KarenFrances

      Yeah, CNN did at least 3 reports with audio experts on that with 3 different versions. The prosecutor’s charging affidavit says “f–king punks.”. Seems like just an effort to influence potential jurors as they are not going to be allowed to march into court and just tell the jury he said “f**king punks.”

      • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

        Here’s that CNN report…
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EhTL9gD0xI
         
         
        The signal to noise on this 911 tape is pretty high. It doesn’t take much to first remove the background noise or to enhance the words.

        CNN is presenting the audio as clearly saying “punks”. I don’t buy it. First their bleeping out of the expletive itself can play tricks with perception of the second word… and there’s just no way to change the C sound to a P, or the N sound at the end to a K… unless one is under the strong  suggestion to hear it as such.   

        • Still Here

          The only thing you hear clearly is what you want to hear, that is clear.

          • Gregg

            So true.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            Brown-nosing again Gregggy?

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            Sorry Still… it didn’t sound like ‘punks’ in the original version and it doesn’t in that “cleaned up” version. But then what can those reporters do but agree when that’s their story? I believe the tape was analysed by 3 “experts” and all three have different determinations…

            So feel free to say I’m being subjective… and having consulted on EVP tapes, I KNOW people can hear what they want if they expect something to be there… even if it’s pure white noise run through some DNR filters.

            So in the end, between us, I have some $2500 invested in forensic audio software and one other speech analysis program that I might try. I’m still working on the tape… and all you have is a CNN report. I’ve reported what I’ve found haven’t drawn any firm conclusions yet even if you have.

      • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

         
        The CNN audio “expert” claims there was some interference in the signal, an electronic spike or the cell phone get bumped, just as Zimmerman speaks the questionable words. Such spikes usually show up in a spectral analysis of the audio and can manually be removed… though that process itself can introduce artifacts that could interfere with the perception of the spoken word. Granted the voice channel and the recording device have limited bandwidth I see no such interference spikes using a different audio restoration program called RX2 Advanced though there is some repetitive noise throughout the tape. I’d love to have a higher quality recording and see exactly the methodology this CNN “expert” used. I’m still not buying Zimmerman didn’t utter “coons”.  

        • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

          Duh, the repetitive noise isn’t from the police recorder which was my first guess. It’s Zimmerman walking and it’s causing some noise to be conducted from his hand through the phone to the mic with each step.

  • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

    Mystery class warrior once said:

    “We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that have allowed some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying 10 percent of his salary, and that’s crazy. It’s time we stopped it.””What we’re trying to move against is institutionalized unfairness. We want to see that everyone pays their fair share, and no one gets a free ride. Our reasons? It’s good for society when we all know that no one is manipulating the system to their advantage because they’re rich and powerful. But it’s also good for society when everyone pays something, that everyone makes a contribution.”

    • aj

      Ronald Dutch Reagan the Gipper. Americans were too stupid to re-elect the most fiscal conservative budget hawk in post world war history, Jimmy Carter.

      Instead they Reagan tripled the debt, shredded the Constitution(Iran Contra) and left his successor with an implosion in the deregulated Savings&Loan industry, requiring a bailout and further deficit spending.

      He destroyed private sector unions so that ceo’s like Scwartzmann of Blackstone makes $200,000 a year, and claims taxing carried interest is equivalent to the Furher’s blitz into Poland September 1939.

      And his lovely Nancy spearheaded the war on drugs which was preceded by Ronnie’s CIA using Contras to pump kilo’s of cheap coke into black neighborhoods virtually decimating my community and other chocolate cities across the Nation.

      Did I mention he destroyed the State of California in his 2 terms as Governor. California’s public junior college, teacher’s college, and University systems were all tuition free until the FBI informant His holiness Ronald Reagan imposed draconian fees on students in retaliation for protests in Berkeley.

      Did I miss anything? Well you get the point. 

      • aj

        correction Scwartzmann makes $200,000,000 a year.

    • KarenFrances

      Eh. ulTRAX (hope that comes out right; ipad messes up unusual words) – my opinion is that theres too much game playing to distract and manipulate to get on board with raising taxes. What are they going to do with that extra money, start another new military base in a place where there’s great golf weather for the generals?

      I check in with a blog called g2mil that focuses on military spending and how much they could easily cut. So why don’t they? Why do they even bring up raising taxes rather than first cut all the useless? Last year there was something about military bands and how they’ve exploded the numbers and cost of military bands because every congressman wants a military band with him when he makes a speech.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Interesting Questions!!

      • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

         
         Karen asked: “Why do they even bring up raising taxes rather than first cut all the useless?”
         
         
        We’re in such trouble that we need to use BOTH approaches… to cut spending AND raise taxes. This is what Clinton did in 1993 and even then getting to a balanced budget wasn’t easy.
         
        The GOP has a hidden agenda of trying to abolish those New Deal and Great Society programs they’ve always loathed… but they can never run on that platform and win elections. So for the past 30 years or so they’ve used fiscal irresponsibility as a political strategy to create massive debt… then they’d use that as the pretense we could no longer afford these programs. They are now going in for the kill… while exempting their own priorities from spending cuts. Clearly, when revenue in constant dollars has been BELOW FY2000 levels for 9 of the past ELEVEN years… we DO have a revenue problem.

        But there’s a math problem here… the nearly 16 trillion debt is so great that we’d have to run a 500 billion on-budget surplus for nearly 32 YEARS to pay down that debt. Even in Clinton’s best year the on-budget surplus was only about 85 billion and it lasted ONE year… then it was gone, and the GOP drove a stake into the heart of debt paydown ever since.  

         

        • Karen Frances

          See, in my opinion, that all makes my point:  None of the politicians, neither party, is serious about the national debt so I’m not going to play along.  

          I think the tax increases are a strategic ploy, actually, and the goal is cutting Social Security benefits and turning Medicare into something like the Ryan voucher plan.  If you don’t think Democrats might get on board with that, I disagree.  For the past 20 odd years we have been getting a mantra that politicians need to ask the “American people” to “sacrifice.”  

          What have they spent on this gigantic security state in the last 10 years, anyway?  It doesn’t make sense, its never made sense.  Neither party is serious about anything other than grabbing for themselves and for their benefactors.  That Solyndra deal was very instructive.  (And I’m sure there are similar Republican deals.)

    • KarenFrances

      Another thought — I liked a lot of what Ron Paul was saying about the god-damned stupid wars and the assault on civil liberties and the military spending but would have a hard time getting on board with his candidacy because he also seemed to want to cut Social Security and Medicare, or even believe they were unnecessary. IMO, these are the best things government has ever done and the American supports them because of the simple common sense that (a) no 70 year old could afford a private insurance policy and (b) the people getting those benefits are our parents and without those taxes we pay, we’d be responsible for our parents and they’d be living with us.

      I also think Social Security and Medicare are a check on the wars and military spending.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        I agree with most of this!

  • Zero

    Just philosophy.  I applaud any conservative who can make it through the entire video–if you want to see the elements of liberal ideology, it is in this documentary.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p9OV5t2QIs&feature=related

    • KarenFrances

      Zero, I will try to watch more when I’m home tonight. Watched a few minutes, though. There is an old truism, “There are more dumb jobs than there are dumb people.” All around us there are people doing ordinary jobs who have interests and hobbies that are very impressive.

      When my daughter was in high school she had to read parts of Plato’s Republic. Of course, it would never work because EVERYONE would want to be one of the philosophers and no one competent is a slug; you actually need pretty bright people to run slaughterhouses and run sewage treatment plants.

      • Zero

        No doubt.  …And Plato’s Republic was the book that ticked off a life of inquiry for me.  It was the first book I read after I graduated high school.  I have now come to the opinion that Plato is mostly wrong, but you gotta read him!

  • Mark Felder

    After listening to this show, my feelings have been confirmed, Tom Ashbrook’s On Point is the best source for understanding current affairs from any media outlet available today.

    • Cynluna

      Check out Diane Rehm out of Washington, she has a weekly roundtable with journalist on domestic and international news.

    • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

      I love OP but the program suffers from guest selection that represents a much too narrow slice of ideological spectrum.

  • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

     
     My apologies to Karen. Sorry for jumping to conclusions about you. I’d read someone accuse you of being just another wacky, doctrinaire, right winger and when I responded to the first post of yours I read, that’s what I saw. But after reading more of your posts I was clearly being unfair.

    • Karen Frances

      Well, thanks.  Much obliged.  

  • Dee

    Jack is right about Independents today….

    They are not like the baby boomers of yesterday….Many are 
    much more into promoting their own prosperity as the poll
    jack noted than about poor folk having access to affordable 
    health care. If they did were they would have voted for 
    Martha Coakley instead. Dee

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Drew Bledsoe Is Scoring Touchdowns (In The Vineyards)
Thursday, Aug 28, 2014

Football great — and vineyard owner — Drew Bledsoe talks wine, onions and the weird way they intersect sometimes in Walla Walla, Washington.

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Poutine Whoppers? Why Burger King Is Bailing Out For Canada
Tuesday, Aug 26, 2014

Why is Burger King buying a Canadian coffee and doughnut chain? (We’ll give you a hint: tax rates).

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