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The Richer Sex

Women taking over as breadwinners.  We’re talking about everything that changes.

Nearly 40% of working wives now make more money than their husbands.

Nearly 40% of working wives now make more money than their husbands. (Victor1558/Flickr)

Latest numbers:  four in ten working women out-earn their husbands.  Under-thirty women – the majority are pulling away from men on income.  With sixty percent of Americans in college now female, writer Liza Mundy sees the trend only accelerating. And remaking gender roles and expectations, relationships and power dynamics in this country.

She’s ready to call women “the richer sex.”

This hour, On Point:  women taking the role of major breadwinner, and what it means for sex, love and family.  What it means for the country.

-Tom Ashbrook

Guests

Liza Mundy, author of “The Richer Sex: How the New Majority of Female Breadwinners is Transforming Sex, Love, and Family.”

From Tom’s Reading List

Time “Today’s high-earning women are justly proud of their paychecks — I explore the rise of the female breadwinner in this week’s TIME cover story — but they still often feel that men will be intimidated rather than attracted to them as potential mates. They think their success will seem too threatening and be held against them.”

The Atlantic “Construction isn’t an industry usually considered hospitable to women, but Kimberly Reading of Deltona, Fla., found it a firm foundation for opportunity. Working at a family-owned home-building firm, she started off “in the front office … answering telephones and purchasing pencils,” she recalls. But the father and sons who ran the company gave her an opportunity to prove she could handle more responsibility.”

The Guardian “The ‘so what?’ feminism plateau is familiar to us in the west: 40 years after the second wave, the standstill is obvious. Western women are stuck populating middle management and pink-collar ghettos. A small fraction of elite women have fabulous careers, supported by the low-wage childcare and domestic work of other women. In news coverage, women remain pegged at about 15% of bylines and subjects. They run no more than 5% of Fortune 500 companies. And so on.”

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  • Kookoo Cory

    This is the inevitable result of the huge majority of American families having to have two incomes to support a household.  A little further along the continuum don’t be suprised to see three generations sharing a household, all with jobs to keep things afloat.  Another facet of inevitable American decline.

    • Quadraticus

      The era of every person having his or her own McMansion and living hundreds or thousands of miles from their extended family is a historical anomaly made possible only by borrowing against future decades of American productivity. Expect a reversion to the mean.

    • Modavations

      This is the inevitable result of big govt.sucking the tax payer dry

      • ms. big L

         Government exists to promote the general welfare. Personally, I’m tired of these simple tirades against the government. Why don’t you go pave a road today?

        • notafeminista

          Maybe if that’s all the government did we’d be better off.

        • Modavations

          Personally Govt.is the problem and I have no problem with you posting away till hell freezes over.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Guppy didn’t tell you that Hell froze over?  The goat missed that too?

  • Kestral

    And this is why they are trying to take away our birth control?

    • Gregg

       No one wants to take away your birth control! Sheesh.

      • Kookoo Cory

        Really?  No one?

        • Modavations

          Name me the malfactor please.According to Santorum,”it ain;’t me babe,no,no,no,it ain’t me babe

          • Modavations

            I’ve been waiting so long for the name that I’ve grown a friggin beard.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Since you have said that you get ‘limp-wristed’ about Barney Frank, and other guys, YOUR’S was an interesting choice of words?

          • Terry Tree Tree

            A friggin beard?  Think that will attract Barney Frank?

        • Quadraticus

          I wonder why no one understands the difference between “We’re outlawing birth control” and “We’re not going to force other people to pay for your birth control”. Eliminating government mandates for health insurers to cover birth control is not the same as government prohibiting birth control: it just means that you need to pay for it individually, or choose a health insurer that chooses to cover it.

          • Kestral

            Who do you think pays for vasectomies?

          • Quadraticus

            Non-sequitur. But since you mentioned it, I’m perfectly happy with government also not requiring insurance companies to cover vasectomies, just as I am happy with government not requiring any insurance company to cover *any* procedure. That is something that should be between the two parties to the contract: the insurer and the insured.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            My insurance company paid 80% of mine! 
               WHO pays for Viagra for pedophile priests?

          • kelty

            Oh, but it’s ok to force people to pay for viagra, or any other medication for that matter, through your employer sponsored/employee paid health insurance. You just can’t pick & choose which health insurance your employer chooses to offer and going out on the market to self-insure guarantees you will pay through the nose and get less coverage. Considering all the recent attempts of personhood initiatives, allowing objections by doctors or pharmacists to deny women medicine or health care, de-funding of Planned parenthood or low-cost clinics, constantly trying to impose new restrictions on abortion, and that many catholics/christians believe birth control of any kind is morally wrong and have been actively fighting against its availability by helping to write legislation making it more expensive and less available leads many women to believe that truly is the ultimate goal.
            You are in for a big time fight over it too. Women have the right to control their own bodies whether you like it or not. 

          • Quadraticus

            No, it isn’t okay. What your insurance pays for should be between you and your insurance company: period. I personally want a high-deductible catastrophic policy that covers only things like cancer, heart attacks, broken legs, etc., things that are entirely unexpected: this way I can pay substantially lower premiums than people do for the comprehensive plans that cover *expected* costs, something that isn’t really insurance so much as a pre-payment plan or cost spreading.

          • kelty

            Hello, anyone is there?? The vast majority of Americans get their Health Insurance through their employer and help pay for it themsleves. The employer chooses the plan(s) they will offer. Mandates help ensure that preventative health care needs are met and are not subject to employers/insurance companies personal whims. PLUS, women who are able to control their own reproductive lives cost much less to insure than those that can’t which keep premiums for EVERYONE lower.  

          • Quadraticus

            That’s unfortunate, but if you and your employer don’t see eye to eye philosophically, it isn’t right for you to make them change to fit your needs: employment is a purely voluntary arrangement, not a program in which you are owed a job or benefits by anyone.

          • kelty

            Oh yes, the ole “just find a new job” joke becuase that is exactly what that repsonse is, a joke. I would prefer Health Insurance not be tied to employment, but the fact of the matter is, it is a benefit my employer uses to compensate me for the work I perform. And I should have some say as to a benefit that I help pay for with my own money.  

          • Quadraticus

            Look, it is what it is.Just because you needsomethingdoesn’tmean someoneelseshould berequired to provide it to you. The solution to the needs of people whocannot provide for themselvesis “charity”, for whichthe recipients should be appreciative, not indignant.

          • kelty

            iT IS NOT CHARITY IF i AM PAYING FOR IT. yOU WANT TO LIVE LIFE ON THE EDGE AND HAVE OTHERS COVER YOUR HEALTH BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO PAY UP YOUR SELF THATS FINE, BUT i HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE AND i HELP PAY FOR IT AND IT DAMN WELL COVER NMY HEALTH CARE NEEDS.

        • Gregg

           No one.

          • kelty

            man, I hate this formatting!!

      • Kookoo Cory

        I’m confident there are elements of our population that despise birth control and would like to see it unavailable or prohibited.  Ever hear of Catholicism?

        Legislation allowing employers to question employees about their need for the pill sounds perilously close to intimidation or prohibition.

        • Gregg

          There is no effort by Catholics to outlaw contraception. They don’t even talk about it.

          I don’t follow your second paragraph at all.

          • kelty

            you really do live in a bubble

  • Patrick

    The kind of man who would be intimidated by a higher-earning wife, in this economy, really shouldn’t be reproducing anyway.

    • http://www.richardsnotes.org Richard

      Give that man a Darwin Award.

  • Kookoo Cory

    My wife and I have flip-flopped as “bread winner” a few times.  It is just survival in America.  You are making more than me now honey?  Oh, okay!

  • Modavations

    As Sen.Kerry would say,I see no problem with rich spouses.

    • vandermeer

       Senator Kerry brings his wife his prestige as Senior Senator from Massachusetts and he had plenty money
      and prestige from his family too. Bad analogy for this program.

      • Modavations

        Senor,I’m a Boston boy. Sen.Kerry was broke and sleeping on couches.He saved his money and opened a Choc.Chip store.It failed.Why do Dems.have to come to each others defense no matter the level of ridiculousness.

        • Anonymous

          Neither of them earned their money.  They both married into fortunes. 

          • Modavations

            Whose the both?

          • Modavations

            Forget it….I got it.Kerry,however,married twice for money.I think Theresa had bucks before scoring the Heinz fortune

          • Modavations

            Is Ketchup a condiment or vegetable?

  • Gregg

    Ah, the joys of being a kept man.

  • Nicholas Danforth

    Where are these “intimidated” men?  Both my women partners (over 20 years each) earned 2-3 times more than I did, helping my career and my budget (and giving me more time to enjoy raising our son).  Where’s the rub?

  • Patrik

    I really don’t see a problem with women earning as much or more, I think it’s great and could produce new ideas or developments in industries maybe not thought of by a guy. 

    I wonder, however, how this will begin to affect a mans deepest psychology of his natural role as hunter/gatherer/provider?  Could this be some sort of sociological evolution?  If so, brought about by what?  I have noticed with some couples that the roles have been completely reversed professionally and domestically. 

    • Four Elements

      Who ever proved that our masculine and feminine aspects are fully determined by our genitals?

      • Patrik

        Oh I totally agree, it’s all about the person and who they are, I’m simply speaking to the changes from what had been known in the mainstream of nature throughout history.  As I said above, I’m totally open and think its great that more and more women are earning more and doing more. 

  • Samantha

    My ex had a problem with him earning about 40% less than I did.

    At first he said he didn’t have a problem, but when we broke up he came clean and told me it bothered him.

    HA!
     

  • Sam

    What about statistics that women still make about .80 cents to every dollar than men make in comparable jobs?

    What about poor negotiating skills women have?

    A lot of women do not negotiate their initial salaries and their raises.
    Me including.

    A lot of self-doubt, kind of like – i should be grateful that they offered me this job/raise.
    But it’s all changing. There is more and more information and resources for women on how to negotiate, how to behave at the work place, what to say/ask at the interview.

    Also, women are the ones more often than men, need and ask for flex time because of the responsibilities at home, care giving for parents, children, and not because they have to, but because they WANT TO.
    And with flex time, comes the need to compromise on the paycheck and work place and etc.

    Thanks for covering this.

    I am a subscriber to dailyworth.com – daily email/blog about finances geared towards women.

    • Modavations

      Open your own business!!!

      • Sam

        Owning your own business is not for everyone.
        But thank you for the advice.

        • Modavations

          The business of America is business.Don’t sell yourself short

          • Terry Tree Tree

            If Moda  can peddle pretty rocks, ANYONE  can?

  • notafeminista

    How do shows/books/studies etc such as today’s topic correlate with the notion that women “marry up?”
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/12/opinion/sunday/marriage-suits-educated-women.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

  • Christine

    I am the breadwinner and my boyfriend certainly doesn’t complain about the extra money, but he does put up a big ruckus about having to do the laundry or cleaning the house.  He has more free time so it’s only fair he does more household chores!

    • Sam

      Absolutely!
      If the roles/finances were reversed, the woman wouldn’t even need to be asked, women would jump in and help out MORE around the house just to feel like we are pulling our share.

  • Modavations

    I married for sex,we were both broke

    • Stillin

      I did too! No regrets, I never cared about money. I grew up with it , but I married poverty. Later, he is big in the money, I am struggling, wouldn’t change a thing. I was in love and still am, seperate or not.

      • Modavations

        That’s why they say “love makes the world go round”

      • Stillin

        still stillin here, well it wasn’t just sex, but sex played a large part. we ended up best friends. I do make good money, but he owes me 100,000 in back child support, what nys calls “arrears” and we are still married, living apart…it’s interesting to me who married for money or did, and who doesn’t. I can and will make it on my own…he is not an easy person ever, and in the end, his peronality wore me out. Still, I have a master’s degree and I will o.k, and if I outlive him, I will be more than o.k….he owes me.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          My ex-wife paid NO child-support, even though the court said she would.   I raised our children without it. 

      • Modavations

        All joking aside,I was crazy for the girl.We never made it passed the “7 year itch”.I talk to her weekly(Boston_Annapolis).We’re in the same bizz,so we rendevous for trade shows(Tucson,Hong Kong) and split room costs.I love her new guy and we all party

        • Terry Tree Tree

          You get ‘limp-wristed’ about her new guy, like you do about Barney Frank? 
             She and he peddle pretty rocks too?  How unimportant!

  • Ian

    Have you seen what a pair of Christian Louboutin shoes costs?
    Its extermely expensive to be a professional woman, I say pay em even more. I like those shoes.

  • BEEZ

    I think what it highlights is the need to reform how we give paternal and maternal leave.
    It also shows we need to start shifting the parental roles; if a woman is the money-maker, us guys need to start stepping up our game when it comes to how to raise a child.  

    • Sam

      Absolutely!
      I don’t know about your work place, but at my work place men can take just as much time off – it’s called FAMILY LEAVE, and it can be taken to care for an elderly family member or a child.

  • Wes

    My wife out-earns me 2:1, as I am self-employed. She has a PhD, so her education warrants the difference. As a stay-at-home dad, I enjoy watching our two children (aged 2, 5)…but they still prefer “mom,” which makes here a very “in demand” member of our family.

  • Harry

    We were equal but now, after my layoff, my wife makes more than I do. 
    She now makes the house payment where as I used to make the full payment myself

  • Harry

    I should add that I am back working now at my former employer but as a new employee at a much lower rate.  Quite a few of my co-workers have a similar situation.

  • A C Robbins

    At one time, women wanted to marry men who were older and had jobs that were better paying and of higher status than the wives’ jobs. Male doctors married nurses, male executives married secretaries, college professors married other college professors, etc. I live in a college town, and I now see many cases where female professors are married to carpenters, musicians, potters, and so on. It is no longer seen as a degrading thing to have a husband with a lower “status” job.

  • Sam

    How does this stack up against this statistic, that 40% of women giving birth now, are single.

    Thank you
     

  • Clara

    As the economy shifts away from manufacturing to healthcare in this economy, women benefit from having more education. But one-to-one comparison of a woman and a man starting in the same position/field, on average she will make less money and advance less than the man. Someone let us believe we can have it all, but they lied. Family and career are still not compatible in the U.S.

  • Sam

    I also think/read that qualities that the workplace values now, such as critical thinking, ability to multitask, communication skills, ability to get along, etc women are naturally better at all those things than men are. Girls vs Boys brains.
    Tom did a show on that recently.

  • Four Elements

    Hey Tom, can we have a Dislike button too?

    • Modavations

      My family name was Spirited one.That was 40 years ago.Why don;’t you get a ball peen hammer an smash offending posters…..Snitch

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Rough ‘chemical’ flashbacks?

  • Sam

    Totally! She said it right!

    If I married my ex-boyfriend, I would have another dependent, clean for yet another person, and if we divorced, I would be paying HIM alimony, while still supporting myself and my child.

    Who wants that?!

  • Liliana

    A friend is a very successful lawyer who’s earning most of her family’s income – husband and two teenage children.
    Her strong social values, including informed citizenship and equality, and her active absence of desire to match her law firm partners’ big houses and greed to outdo each other, give me hope for a better future for this country.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Cyndi-Armstrong/704124574 Cyndi Armstrong

    I realize this is going to be a unique point of view but my husband and I are a family and so we don’t separate our funds.  My husband was unemployed last year for 7 months and it hit his ego hard but he never begrudged me being the bread winner.    We moved to find better work opportunities for him (and free me from an evil job that I hated) and I saw a large increase in my income and we saw it as God’s provision for our bills, etc.  It’s never, he makes more, she makes more.  It’s “how is our family doing”.  

  • Julia

    I’ve put off having children because I am  the breadwinner due to the he-recession, and I HATE it!!

  • Stephanie Gardner

    I know three couples where the husband has been unemployed long-term and the wife is the breadwinner.  All highly educated and successful.  In each instance, the man THINKS he does everything around the house, but the woman still does 90% of everything — grocery shopping, laundry, cooking, cleaning.  You name it.  I stay at home with our kids and my husband is the breadwinner.  If the tables were turned, I know that I would still be doing everything domestically.

  • Sam

    I wouldn’t have a problem marrying someone who earns less than me, as long as we are aligned in our ambition and goals.

    If his goals are to buy a house and stay in one place, do not travel, do not thithe, etc Then we would have a problem with misalignment of our vision and abilities to do the things that I WANT to do, that cost money.

  • Frustrated

    In our household my husband lost a well paying job at GM and now works for about 1/3 of his previous salary.  I now earn about twice as much as my husband.

    However, in my company which has suffered NO layoffs, as a woman I am still underpaid for comparable work.  I have a higher degree (masters) and twice as much time and experience in the company than my male counterpart.  However, he currently makes at least 25% more than me and will soon be my boss (if I don’t change jobs) with an upcoming vacany and promotional opportunity.  The Board of our company is all male, and the number of male executives to female is overwhelmingly male.  So, basically there is a glass ceiling at my job, but the pressure to be the be breadwinner at home.

    • Anonymous

      “…and twice as much time”

      Frequently the only way to increase your pay in any real way is to change jobs.  Companies will avoid increasing your pay as much as possible as long as you are there.  They have you already and you aren’t about to leave so why pay you more?

      Don’t assume sexism when cheapness or laziness is a better explanation.

  • Four Elements

    Every person is a combination of masculine and feminine qualities, no matter which genitals they were born with. EVERYONE is androgynous (or gynandrous). Those who attempt to suppress one side or the other are pathetic and perhaps dangerous. To the extent that there are masculine and feminine roles in society, everyone should be able to access the part of themselves that fits each role.
    As a physiological man, why can’t I be a nurturing stay-at-home mom/dad? As a physiological woman, why can’t I be an aggressive, competitive hunter/gatherer/breadwinner? Why can’t either be both? People who are made uncomfortable by these considerations need to evolve.

    • Patrik

      Perhaps you misunderstood my question or the tone of the questions I presented.  Sometimes I have difficulty articulating or writing what I want to say.  

      • Modavations

        throw in armpits and  someother college kid invective,she’ll get it

        • Patrick

          Your aim is off.

      • Modavations

        Sorry dude.I’m like a Pavolian dog.I see Patrick and I think of some college kid running around the dorm with his underpants over his head

        • Patrick

          No; actually, I’m a job creator.  Worship me!  Thy job creator commands it!

    • Sabina

      But don’t these characteristics exist on a spectrum? I imagine that each of us is the sum of countless variables from our hard-wiring to learned behavior to experiential history.  Nature AND nurture.  Finding internal balance, balance in our relationships and balance in the larger world is key.  

  • Criss

    It is now the season for corporations to have annual meetings, so if you’re a shareholder, you may have gotten notifications and chances to vote for board members lately. I know I have, and one thing has stood out like flashing neon: only about 20% of the directors standing for election are female. Sure, we’ve come a long way, but we have so far to go. I would hate for this show to make anyone think feminism isn’t needed anymore, especially now, while conservatives all over the country are trying to take away every right women have ever had to their own bodies. Birth control, for instance, is a HUGE part of how women have been able to makethe financial gains they have in recent decades.

  • Valerie

    The closer we get to 50/50 the better our marital relationship.  It is funny how $ brings respect whereas other contributions (housework, raising children) have an associated lower level of respect.

  • RickyBobby

    Tom,…woman can’t deal with it.  My wife keeps telling me “I want a man to take care of me”…and she means $$$.  (even though she’s got a solid 90K a year job…

  • Ctrot312

    I am the sole bread winner now and it has strengthened my relationship with my husband. When he was the main bread winner I felt somewhat indebted to him and selfish when I spent “his” money. Now I work over sixty hours a week while he is in law school. I do not have any sense of “his money or my money.” This has helped me understand that in marriage there is no keeping score we are both in it to support our family (which right now is just the two of us.)

  • Mayacb3

    Don’t forget that the situation changes over time.  I’m over 50 and now many of my friends are earning more than their husbands.  Over the years of my marriage, each of us has out-earned the other.  This is part of “for better and worse”.

  • bb

    My wife is an Ivy League, tenure-track professor, mid-30s, new citizen (2 yrs ago), grew up in late-USSR; I’m 50, graduate degree and chose careers in – let’s call it – non-medical care; two small children from this marriage.  Rough time of it since 2006 for me finding work that I am qualified for, until 2010 and then only half-time.  A specific reason for her decision to end our marriage is that “I didn’t get a job at Walmart” when I was un- and under-employed and that she bellieves men are to be the primary providers (even though she’s been in the US exclusively as a student since 1995).  I’ve been watching this trend of women’s financial empowerment – in the military, academia, even the church – since the 1980s.  On the one hand, I see this as the way our society must evolve, esply we must create equal pay gender-wise, yet on the other hand, of course, I see what’s happened to my desire to spend a family life together, in part, a casualty of much, much larger developments.  Ironic, aye?

  • Ken Abe

    Heavens! Now they might try to get on top, you know what I mean—our civilisation would _surely_ collapse.

  • Jess in Boston

    At my workplace a man in a very stable, prestigious position left and took an inferior position in another state after his wife and he had a baby together, because she had a job opportunity there.

    My coworkers were very confused and continue to speculate why he left: that he must not have liked his job, or his colleagues, or something must have been wrong. No one seems to think that he left simply because that was the best thing for his family.

  • Lawrence

    Dual graduate degrees, man, self-employed, has higher earning industry, the woman more passionate about her work and more ambitious.  In 15 years of marriage, man outearns spouse 5 years and has another 5 years of very poor business, and about 5 years earning nearly the same.  However, because the father’s income is self-employed and uncertain, the basic view is that the mother earns the bread and pays the bills, the father’s income is tied more to things like vacations, major home improvements, etc.  The man wears the stigma of appearing to be the domestic, even in years where the man outearns the woman, because of course that is not public information.  The stigma is about roles, not about income.

  • Robert

    I got laid off when my wife was 8 months pregnant with our first child. It actually turned out to be a wonderful thing for me. I got to spend the first four months of our daughter’s life with her while I was looking for new job and my wife was able to go back to work as soon as she wanted to a job she loves.

  • Merrygangemi

    Has Lisa considered same-sex couples in her studies? 

    • Modavations

      spare us

  • happily out earned

    I have the most remarkable wife (married 42 hears). I have the “better” education in our family, yet she out-earned me 10:1 before I retired.  Even her administrative aid made more money than I did as a young assistant professor.  It was never a problem for me, but I was always a little skeptical about the prevailing statistics of men out-earning women. 

  • Daniel

    My wife’s preganant and at work, I’m home making dinner. I have a freelance job that keeps me around the house, but she still makes twice as much as I do. I do the laundry and the dishes, and we love it this way.

  • Bill

    Curious if Liza has data or insight with respect to second marriages and couples who are now empty-nesters.  In the absence of kid issues and with idealized aspirations for family life out of the way, what happens on this issue for those of us sans kids in our ’50′s? 

  • Modavations

    Remember what our master poet,the Nobel Laureate Winner DMX had to say????

  • Jess in Boston

    Personally I don’t believe anyone should be discussing their income casually at all. Maybe there is a stigma for female breadwinners, but I believe that higher-earning women, like myself, don’t speak of it simply because discussing earning power is impolite and irrelevant to our families’ sense of self.

  • Sam

    That’s a great point that Rich just brought up.

    When I was with my ex, he was from the failing construction industry and couldn’t find a job.

    After a while, the pep-talk started to subside and the whole “you can do this, i support you looking for a job, etc” started to get super annoying, to him and to me.

    I mean, after a while, what do you say? How is the job search going today? For over a year, two?
    You cannot possibly emotionally support the male ego to continue to prop them up to keep going, IF they are not willing to do that themselves!!!

  • Francine

    I want to emphasize the role technology has played when it comes to women with children advancing in the workplace.  When it is time to pick up my children, the ability to close up my laptop and resume work later is invaluable.  No longer are women tied to a desktop computer at their workplace. 

  • Edgup18

    Women certainly have reason to feel out of place in an environment that is predominantely men, but the reverse happens as well.  I have found that it is fairly common to work in an all-women environment with many rude and nasty anti-male comments being well-accepted.  Until that changes, there will not truly be equitable environments.  Women are better educated, are better connected and live longer, but there is little angst on the plight of men.  This show has given pretty good balance, but women need to look at how they (generally) regard men and our contributions.

    • Jane

      True.  A double standard can exist for how women and men are “allowed” to treat one another.  

  • Jane

    Great conversation.  When will cultural norms catch up to the realities?  I had powerful, well-paid CAREER for 15 years after completing my degrees.  I chose to take time away to be home with a child when my husband and I relocated to accommodate his career.   Now that I am ready and anxious to return to my career, I am astounded by the reaction to me as a WOMAN.  My chosen field (Washington lobbyist) is not available to me where I currently live.  People are very quick to suggest I just change to something else, I suppose because they can’t imagine a woman can be equally passionate about and committed to a career path!  Suggestions from others about job possibilities are repeatedly “female” jobs – teacher, secretary, realtor, community outreach and organization and so on.  WHY?  I admire each and every one of these professions, but have neither the interest NOR THE APTITUDE for them.  I am presumed automatically to be a good planner, organizer, administrator.  I am not.  

    • Jane

      Also, I truly don’t believe that similar job ideas would be made to a man.  A male with a background comparable to mine would never be encouraged to change course drastically (and for less compensation), to pursue jobs that aren’t consistent with their background, training, aptitudes or financial desires.  

      • Anonymous

        Wrong.  Try honestly talking to some men someday.  Men are also realtors, teachers, etc.  People probably suggested comm. outreach type jobs to you because you had the background for it.  Sometimes you have to take a job that isn’t perfect, that is life.

        Men are just as likely to be told in a small town “Try the fire dept, police, the generic manufacturing place in town, etc.”

        • notafeminista

          None of the skills acquired while being a lobbyist translate into anything else?

          Seems unlikely.

          • notafeminista

            1000 pardons, that response is for Jane.

          • Jane

            The skills translating into another venue is NOT the point.  Yes, I have found other tracks in which I can utilize my background, and of course I realize that compromises should be made by everyone in a family so I have set aside my desires to live and work how I’d prefer so we can function as a whole.  The point is that the recommendations I hear reflect some perception of me by gender only, disregarding the facts of who I am as an individual.  It’s assumed that I would feel less passionate about WHAT I do because I am a woman – just any job will do because women aren’t as serious as men.  One component that applies here is the fact that I currently live in a small, conservative town with  a stronger sense of traditional roles.  In DC (and many other places), the culture is different.  Fair enough.  I’m not attacking men, and OF COURSE I realize that both sexes face plenty of unfair stereotyping.  Do I think a male in my situation would have folks recommending he become a firefighter?  No way.   
            I’m also not focusing on my situation as some personal complaint; I merely see it as an example of some of the subtle implications in gender studies.  Generally, it’s unintentional and not “right or wrong” – it is what it is, and I find value in being mindful about the dynamics.  I like to understand how it all works.  

    • Anonymous

      “My chosen field (Washington lobbyist) is not available to me where I currently live.  People are very quick to suggest I just change to something else, I suppose because they can’t imagine a woman can be equally passionate about and committed to a career path!”

      Why do you immediately play the sexism card?  Maybe those people are trying to give practical advice because you just said yourself “My chosen field (Washington lobbyist) is not available to me where I currently live.”

      No, it can’t be because your chances of finding a “Washington lobbyist” job in your new place are 0, it must be because they can’t handle you and your job obsession.  If it bothers you so much then MOVE.

      • Jane

        Among my many male friends and colleagues, I do not hear others suggesting that they give up their career path when they need to adjust.  It is assumed that I was less serious about my career because I chose to take time to be home with my child.  There is most decidedly a difference in the way people think of women and men in this context.  A woman is perceived as either completely career driven OR not very serious because she also wants to embrace a particular type of parenting.  I suspect that few people would suggest that a man take a drastic pay cut and pursue a new job completely unrelated to his established career path.  He would likely be encouraged to seek opportunities that are commensurate with his education, professional ability and salary history.  Retail?  Teaching?  Administrative position?  A male with my circumstances would not hear such comments.  

        I did not necessarily buy the idea of such intrinsic gender bias when I began my career, but I watched and learned (try it sometime).  I rebuffed my female colleagues who complained and was so very certain that one would find equal opportunity and success if one had as much to offer as men.  It’s simply not true.  Any one example may seem trivial, but when taken as a whole the reality is staggering.  

        And for the record, you have absolutely no idea and no business commenting on whether I can or should move.  Oh, wait, it’s another REAL gender thing – I moved to my current location for my husband’s job, as did countless motivated professional women I know, and like them, I am now trapped because his needs seem to come first.  There are plenty of underlying social and psychological reasons for this phenomenon, but the relentless pattern of men placing higher value on their own desires and world views is undeniable.  Many many exceptions to the phenomenon, but it’s real nonetheless.  

        • Anonymous

          So it is the male gender’s fault that you willingly moved for your husband?  That was your choice, no one forced you.  I’ve been the opposite situation, it goes both ways.

          “but the relentless pattern of men placing higher value on their own desires and world views is undeniable.”

          And I could say the same about woman.  In fact I’d say it is a basic human trait to put our own needs first.

          “…you have absolutely…no business commenting on whether I can or should move.”

          Yes I do if you post a comment in a public forum and you mention it yourself.

          • Jane

            Wow.  I was never making any effort to anger you so.  My apologies.  Yes, it is a cultural truism that by and large, women choose and/or are expected to follow the husband.  It’s called a fair generalization – and of coures there are countless exceptions, which are called “exceptions.”  This fact in and of itself illustrates how the male power structure GENERALLY dictates the choices we make.  And my post was to provide one example of gender dynamics.  If I had wanted to tell my entire story, then your feedback full of assumptions would have been warranted.  You know, I am interested in understanding the dynamics, not declaring war.  Men nor women are the enemy.  Men are subjected to many biases as well.  As are [name any group or characteristic].  The program was focused on the ongoing changes (and it is always changing) in the workplace, the home and in personal finance.  I was merely responding to the topic at hand.  I didn’t walk up to you and begin some kind of assault, yet you respond as such.  I’m off to enjoy some of the thoughtful exchanges here.  

  • David

    My wife earns more than I do.  She buys her own jewelry and the standards for housecleaning are hers. Still we are happy.

  • Anonymous

    I’m a 32 year old single mother, I work Part time and make $85,000 a year. My past relationships haven’t been successful in large part because I do 99% of the domestic work AND my rather high-paying career hasn’t been actively supported by my partners, even though they make 1/3 of that. It seems to me like these are inherently sexist patterns. 

    • Modavations

      Get a maid.What planet are you on

      • Anonymous

        you’re right. I should definitely hire a woman to do the work my male partner refuses to do. 

        • notafeminista

          Hire anyone you like to do the domestic work your partner refuses to do.  The fact that you immediately inferred “female” from maid shows your bias.

          On a somewhat related note, how many single mothers embrace the idea of male child care providers?

          • Anonymous

            I’ve never met a male “maid” in my life, have you? the word actually means woman. anyway, I have time to do the domestic work and I don’t mind doing it, although it is a lot of work. But I don’t like the wild disparity in support and effort between me and my ex-partners. honestly, I probably just choose poorly. from these comments, it seems like there are all kinds of men and women out there. but my experiences have seemed to me to be based in sexism.

            what does “single mother” have to do with choosing a male child care provider? I don’t understand. we did have a “manny” (his term) for a while, and he was great – although much more expensive then the equally good female nanny we had before ($7 an hour more expensive)

          • notafeminista

            1)Then you chose badly when it came to partners.

            2)If all you find is sexism, then maybe that’s all you see.

            3)You elected to pay the $7 more an hour…you could have found another female child care worker.

          • Anonymous

            thank you! now I know

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Your list of male child-care-providers, that could pass a Background Check, and don’t wear an ankle-bracelet-locator?

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Maid IS a feminine word?
               WHAT is a word for a male, of the same qualifications?   There isn’t one?

        • Modavations

          Get a male maid.What planet are you on

          • Modavations

            Toss out your ungrateful mate while you’re at it

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Male maid?  Maid, maiden, are terms of feminine?
               Do you mean a eunich?  A transvestite?  A castorati?

    • Stillin

      what do you do p/t at 85?

      • Anonymous

        private practice, white collar

  • Sam

    I bought dolls and a toy kitchen for my son!
    It should start early on! :)

    And he helps me clean and vacuum and fix a bike and do chores.

    He is 2.

    • Rickwo

      That’s great. Hopefully, society can catch up to young men raised that way…

  • http://www.facebook.com/fcbates Fred Bates

    Dear On Point,
    This starts with boys
    failing in schools where sitting still is equated with “being
    good“.

    “Masculine” orientated
    arguments are realy industrial American style ones in a now
    post-industrial America. Let us avoid Man slaming comments like “…men are a mess…” found on a recent Alanitc Monthly (of all places) cover.      Please address the inequalities men continue to suffer in child
    custody and alimony determinations.

  • Kestral

    I am a homemaker and really enjoy my work.  The list of what I do is long and varied, and I also volunteer in my community. My children are grown and gone. My wonderful husband makes enough money; we have enough. There is more to life than a career and making a lot of money. Our quality of life is fantastic…..our house is clean and organized, we have no debt, we eat wonderfully, our vegetable garden is a joy.
    My only sadness is that work traditionally labeled as “women’s work” is still not valued. I work all day, every day (no TV in the house!) but people generally think that if I am home with no children, I am “not doing anything.”

  • Dave_Nashville

    When I met my wife we were in our late twenties and she was finishing her second Masters Degree while I was working as a carpenter/foreman for a restoration company. Since then we moved in together and she worked part time while I payed the mortgage, and more recently I have begun going to school while she is working full time and paying the majority of the bills. We talked a lot about this plan before we moved in with one another, and before we were married and both liked the plan. Currently I am finishing my second year of school studying computer engineering. We are trying to have our first child next year and I will graduate the following year at which point our plan is to allow my wife to spend more time home with the children while I work and return to the bread winner position. Currently, while my wife is earning almost all of our money, I often feel that I should spend as little as possible and even feel bad buying a pair of new shoes or almost anything that costs more than $50. I have become so used to having my own income and spending accordingly that I now feel awkward not having an income. We definitely work as a team and often work on projects around the house together, such as renovating our bathroom. I feel the key to the functionality of our relationship is communication and goal setting. We have a plan in place and work toward achieving that, while good communication keeps us on the same page.
     

  • Mary

    Hi Tom,

    I just returned from a symposium for school (and independent) guidance counselors at Clark University in Worcester. The focus was on understanding the recent  psychological  research of Jeffery Jensen Arnett on what he has labeled Emerging  Adulthood ( his book title), addressing the current path of many of the age 18-28 age group.Many of these ‘kids’ post-college, are landing back home in parents’ basements and attics as they try out new life possibilities.  To quote the back flap of the book ” Emerging Adulthood will be indespensible reading for anyone wanting to understand the face of modern America”
    I believe this topc addresses another slice of modern American life  and fits well with your discussion in today’s program on women becoming the richer sex.

    Mary 

  • notafeminista

    Sort of the unspoken thing here is how men view the progress women have made.  Women have been lamenting for some time now..(even some here and now on this board) that men don’t carry their weight domestically, aren’t mature and so on.  Maybe true, maybe not.  
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/12/opinion/sunday/marriage-suits-educated-women.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

    In light of this, how will leaving a male offspring on his parents’ insurance plan until the age of 26 do anything to advance maturity and/or responsibility?

    • Gregg

      Great question.

    • http://twitter.com/Chrontius Chrontius Lameth

      Perhaps by throwing up one less obstacle to successfully completing a college degree?

  • Jsquared33

    This brings up an interested scenario for men like me. An article a few years ago in the NY Times reported that as college-educated women begin to outnumber college-educated men, men increasingly control the dating scene, leaving many women unhappy. Since women won’t date down, for instance, educated, successful men can do things like demand sex without dates. Men control the relationships and women compete for a smaller pool of successful men. I have witnessed this first-hand. As a 28 year old single Johns Hopkins-trained M.D. in residency training, I have absolutely no incentive to date. Desperate, willing women are a dime-a-dozen and I haven’t gone on a date in years, yet can arrage “one-night-stands” every day if I wanted. The pool of educated women with good jobs yet who are miserable because of this quandary has led many of them to express frustration to me that maybe they’d be better off in the 60s.  

    • Criss

      So…your only incentive to date would be if no one would have sex with you otherwise? You can’t see any other reason you might want a relationship, other than as a bargaining chip to buy sex?

      I think the problem confronting the women you know may not be as systemic as you think–it may be because they’re women who have the misfortune of only knowing men like you.

      Oh, and the article you’re talking about was on slate.com, and you’re mischaracterizing what it actually said quite a bit.

      • notafeminista

        There is one on Salon, and the one I’ve referenced below from the NYT. Very recent and very interesting stuff.

      • Jsquared33

        This is the article I’m referencing, sorry it was mostly talking about college campuses (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/fashion/07campus.html?pagewanted=all). And no, I have little incentive to be in a relationship right now because I’m more focused on my career at this point in my life. With the glut of potential partners out there, why would I rush?

  • Anonymous

    So will there be programs now to help men like woman have had for decades?  How about special funding to help young men graduate?

    • notafeminista

      Ha!  NOW will never stand for it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tim-Brown/1227104716 Tim Brown

    As a 24 yearold, I don’t see the big deal. As long as your career brings in a living wage, I don’t see why net earnings have to impact a relationship. If you’re both happy in your work, and both contributing to society and your collective income pool, I don’t see a real problem aside from getting over preconceptions, which are less and less the norm for younger people anyhow.

    • notafeminista

      You will see the big deal when you are 34 or 44 or maybe 54.  As part of the 18-34 year old demographic you view money and/or insurance significantly differently than your older counterparts.  You most likely have no children, no spouse(former, current or otherwise) and no mortgage.  Is this stereotyping?  I don’t know.  But people in your age group do use and see money differently than if you were 10 years older.  There might be a tiny bit to be said for being less likely to have preconceived notions, but it is more likely the case that ..you’re just younger and spend your money differently.

  • Alrowland

    Is it possible that part of this is that women will work harder and for less money and are less demanding to their employers than men?  Women are making more money than ever, but is the net income at the household level improving – it doesn’t look like it…

    • Andrew Brengle

      Charlotte Beers in her book ‘I’d Rather Be in Charge’ does a good job at analyzing the dynamics between men and women in the workplace.  Old male cultures die hard, but there is also something in the women’s approach vs. the guy’s approach.  Women–lets all work together.  Guys–just lookin’ out for numero uno. Out a my way.

  • Harlan Green, Editor

    Dear Tom;  Did you see my Huff Post piece, “Attacks on Women’s Contraception (Also) Harms Our Economic Health”
     
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harlan-green/post_3082_b_1320996.html

    • Gregg

      That’s the biggest bunch of bilge I’ve ever read. How do you have a job? No Republican has attacked women’s contraception.

      • Bill

        Except of course for the obvious example of Rick Santorum. You know, that guy in second place for the Republican presidential nomination.

        “One of the things I will talk about, that no president has talked
        about before, is I think the dangers of contraception in this country.
        It’s not okay. It’s a license to do things in a sexual realm that is
        counter to how things are supposed to be.” – Rick Santorum
        Read more: http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/rick-santorum-contraception-6520438#ixzz1pgYMmhFw
         
        I’m sure there are others. Next time, do a little research before making an assertion that is completely and utterly wrong.

        • Modavations

          And he says that contraception should be made illegal,or that contraception should be denied,where?

        • Gregg

          I know all about that quote, thank you very much. Santorum has a record that includes votes for funding contraception, not that it matters. The contraception issue is manufactured. It’s sad you ate it up. People can hold beliefs without imposing them. I am not afraid of Atheist taking my Bible away. I am not afraid of Pro-choicers outlawing birth. And you think Rick Santorum is going to take away contraception? It’s nuts. But humor me, as insane as it is, how does one go about doing that? Where are the votes? Where is the mandate? Where is the constitutional authority? Where is the moral argument? It really is a whacky premise. Don’t you think there are bigger issues to worry about? Or… is it maybe you’re not supposed to look at the miserable state of the union. Better to manipulate you into a frenzy about a non-issue than to take a chance you believe your own lying eyes.

      • Patrick

        See above re: Steve Simpson

        • Modavations

          Ever see a hysterical Lefty grasping at straws…..Voila

        • Modavations

          I knew it would be a waste of time,but I read it.The article says”would potentially…”.What do you expect from a kid who runs around the dorm with his underpants over his head

          • Patrick

            I don’t get this fascination that you have with my underpants, but I suspect it’s in the Larry Craig vein.  And no, I’m not interested.

            The concept is very clear.  Anything that could terminate a pregnancy after fertilization, which is what can happen in the case of the pill, would have been illegal under this terribly misguided right-wing amendment to the Mississippi constitution.  The fact that you can’t grasp something this clear is an indictment of your intellect.

          • Modavations

            Farting arm pits I think you called me.That’s why.Remember the “rising water story from a few day ago.

          • Patrick

            I do remember that, and I remember it being hilarious.

            Also, the point I was making was that your opinion, on most subjects, as expressed here, is a small, distracting, irrelevant, obscene noise that serves no constructive purpose.I would add that its frequency, persistence, and unfailing irrelevance is probably due to the fact that it’s merely an incoherent expression of the cognitive dissonance that you must be constantly experiencing, as evidenced by your inability to answer or concede a point with integrity.

            On the whole, I think it was a very apt characterization; thank you for giving me the opportunity to refine it.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Moda has proclaimed getting ‘limp-wristed’ about Barney Frank, and SEVERAL other guys, many times. 
               He takes the Larry Craig approach, decrying homosexuals, then claiming to be ‘limp-wristed’ about a guy?

    • Modavations

      I asked at 11:00 for the name of a Rep.who wants to outlaw or deny contraception.I’ve been waiting so long,I’ve grown a beard

      • Patrick

        Steve Simpson, Republican candidate for Attorney General in Mississippi, supported the “personhood” amendment to the state’s constitution, which would have outlawed any form of contraception which could be claimed to prevent implantation, including IUD and, in all likelihood, the pill There’s your example, and you can tack on any other Republican or right-wing lunatic who spoke out in favor of it.  Bask in your humiliation.

        Unfortunately for everyone concerned, the state’s incumbent AG, a Democrat, and also apparently a right-wing lunatic himself, also supported the amendment.

        • Modavations

          You must have had to stretch for this one.His idea of a Rep.Solon is a wanna be Att.Gen.in Mississippi,who lost!!!!

          • Patrick

            You asked for one Republican, that is what you were given.  And it wasn’t hard; he’s just the first one who came up.  The correct thing for a fool to do, when shown the error of his ways, is apologize.  Of course, I’m beyond expecting integrity from you.

          • Modavations

            Pathetic.I ask for a Solon,he comes up with a guy running for Att.Gen.who gets defeated.Why don’t you use David Duke.

          • Patrick

            Congressman Alan Nunnelee (R, Tupelo),  US House of Representatives, endorsed the same personhood amendment.  Open your flippin eyes.

          • Modavations

            I read the article.Pravda,I think it was .It said nothing about contaception being barred.It said it could potentially be barred…..

          • Terry Tree Tree

            It figures that you would read a Pravda article about Miss., and use it, like Rush L., as the ‘authority’?

  • Frank TheUnderemployedProfessi

    Are women the “richer sex” because the jobs women work are paying more than they used to, or is it that female-dominated jobs are paying about the same and that our nation has lost a large number of solid middle class jobs in predominantly male fields?

    In other words, this isn’t necessarily good news or a sign of economic progress; it might just simply mean that wage deflation and increased unemployment has occurred in male-dominated fields and that those jobs were replaced with low-wage jobs.

    So, this news isn’t necessarily something to celebrate.

  • Sy2502

    Men have had the upper hand for thousands of years. Do you really think they’ll relinquish their advantage gladly? Wait and see, we are in for a real social war. Look at the attacks to women’s control on reproduction. We all know that the number one factor in women’s advancement was birth control and abortion. And sure enough, look at what the Conservatives are targeting. I dread that attacks on women will only get worse as Conservative men struggle to hold on to their power for dear life. 

  • Wolftalon2003

    When I was first involved with my ex-husband, he made twice as much as I did.  I finished my degree and now I am making 6 figures, while his income stayed the same.  My ex-husband expected me to still do traditional role of taking care of the house.  The financial disparity and the lack of change of traditional roles ended up leading to a divorce. 

    • notafeminista

      So whoever makes more money gets to duck out of doing laundry?

      • Wolftalon2003

        No, I was working more hours, and doing the cooking, cleaning, yard work, laundry etc.  He would come home from work and sit on the computer all night. When I asked for help cleaning the house, he would clean his computer room. 

  • eremite

    Interesting that gender is the current term of usage for male/female, yet 
    this book uses “sex” in the title…
    (yeah I know it’s the publisher’s decision!)

    • Michele

       Sex and gender are interchangeable.  See dictionary.com_Def:
      Either the male or female division of a species, especially as differentiated with reference to the reproductive functions.

    • Gregg

      “Sex” is the correct usage. Gender is technically a grammatical term but it has come to be interchangeable with “sex”.

  • http://whilewestillhavetime.blogspot.com/ John Hamilton

    The weakness of this conversation is that it is stand-alone, as if everything  else in the world was being held the same (ceteris paribus). If there were even the slightest systems approach it would be a lot more pertinent and interesting. For instance, will there still be a trend of increasing female roles in society in a context of limits to growth of output and melting of the polar ice caps? 

    Put another way, does it matter if women become dominant in a society that is disintegrating? I can say independent of other factors that it is something of a wash. I used to welcome the advances of women in management positions, but now that they are entrenched they can be as stifling and power hungry as men. They have advanced enough in the medical profession that I have started seeing the same kinds of crappy doctors who are females that I used to see in males. 

    As a matter of social drift, the trend can go the other way as easily as it has in its current direction. Given other more important trends, it matters little. If we continue to fill the air with hydrocarbons, male or female, we face a huge die-off, maybe even extinction. It might be a better question to ask if the trend towards female domination will continue as we approach extinction.

  • Jack Arnon5

    I get it. Women are victims. Thea re victims when they make less money and they are victims when they make more money.

    Funny that women should be the richer half and still worry about contraceptives. As if they couldn’t come up with their own pharmaceutical industry.  

    • notafeminista

      Well said.

    • Michele

      Women have not raised anew the issue of contraception men (religious and in Congress) have.  Additionally, women are not the richer half but are making strides, as the guest points out.  For a long-time we had no choice economically or with contraception.  Without contraception and choice women would not have advanced – So, yeah we “worry” about it.

  • JennyB

    I am the ‘work from home’ mom, my husband works in an office (and is the major bread winner). He is also the major household cleaner– does ALL the laundry, sweeps the floor, picks up the house. We have a role reversal here and it is GREAT!

  • Robert Watson

    I am male and I would give my eye teeth to stay home and do the housework. 
    It may be boring and repetitive to stay at home , but the real world of business is shark tank and I want out. Please trade with me now. P.S. I wash , iron , sew, clean toilets etc. It is all about perception. The more things change the more they stay the same. In the end both of these jobs are equally important in order to survive.

  • Anonymous

    Although I’m the major breadwinner in my family, it is not by choice.  My spouse did not finish his undergraduate degree and, having earned a bachelor’s degree and two master’s degrees, my student loan debt requires that I earn a six-figure salary.  Interestingly, despite all of my degrees (1 from an ivy league school), two years ago my husband-a college drop-out-was out-earning me!  We have four children and, as proud as I am of what I have achieved professionally, I find myself saddened by the (seemingly dwindling) waking hours I get to spend my children and wish my husband made more so that I could work less and spend more time with our children.

  • notafeminista

    To Patrick below:  What is your objection to using the text of the proposed amendment?

    • Patrick

      I don’t object.  Here’s the text:

      Section 33. Person defined. As used in this Article III of the state constitution, “The term ‘person’ or ‘persons’ shall include every human being from the moment of fertilization, cloning, or the functional equivalent thereof.”

      This means that anything that terminates a pregnancy after fertilization is, in fact, murder.  IUDs are murder.  Birth control pills, as they are suspected to sometimes prevent implantation, are murder.  Open your eyes.

      I’m done doing your thinking for you.  If you can’t see that this amendment makes most contraceptives illegal, then you are willfully ignorant or, sad to say, mentally inferior.

      • notafeminista

        1)I’d given you the full text already, you chose to respond with an interpretation/interview from thinkprogress.org

        2)All contraceptives are absolutely designed to prevent fertilization there no “suspected to” about it.  It is the whole point of the concept – it will prevent the egg from becoming fertilized.  Some methods of contraceptives are more effective than others and it is incumbent upon the parties about to engage in the act that encourages fertilization to know which method they will be using and the proper way to do so.

        3) The amendment very specifically says AFTER fertilization.  If  fertilization has not occurred, then there is no illegal act.  Unless you consider abortion to be a form of contraception, there is no attack, no denial, and no outlawing of contraceptives covertly or overtly stated. In fact, I’d say, agree with the amendment or not, its very specifically and clearly worded – this amendment is intended to make abortion and “the day after pill” illegal.  That is all – nothing about pregnancy preventatives.

  • Terry Tree Tree

    FINALLY!!  Women have some earnings equality!  It took a recession to bring it about? 
        It wasn’t about women rising, as much as a LOT of men being drug down by those that lied that they would create jobs?
        Some guys will be pathetically weak, and choose to be a ‘go-get-her’, instead of a go-getter?
        NOT that I see anything wrong with a woman being the bread-winner of a couple, or family.
        I have dated women that were better off financially than me, and we both enjoyed it.  It is tricky for a guy with self-respect, to know how to handle it.

    • notafeminista

      Are you really saying the only reason women advanced is because men failed?

    • Modavations

      Dude no one listens to psychos.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        No one listens to you?  Is that why you make and spread vicious LIES about people? 
           OR, could it be your LIES that make people not listen to you?

  • Gregg

    She does the laundry, I do the dishes. When she gets cranky, I vacuum. It works for us.

    • Modavations

      As would any gentleman,GenG,commander of the liberated middle states

  • kalyan

    I (husband) developed osteoarthritis and fibromyalgia etc so I could not take up a regular job. My wife didn’t believe I am sick and on top of that kicked me out of “our” house!!!

    • Slipstream

       That stinks.  I bet that her not believing you were sick was a way to cover up her guilt over what she was doing.  Not the first time I’ve seen behavior like that.

  • Amanda Zaydman

    My husband and I are a team. I’m finishing up my MBA and he’s getting his MD/PHD. While we are extremely lucky, managing two careers is very difficult. We both have to compromise and have had to recognize that neither of us will pursue our careers to the fullest extent. There are many times I wish one of us would be less ambitious. 

  • Natalie A Paul

    I don’t know where you are getting your numbers from, but if you use the numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the Congressional Research Service, and Fortune, the numbers are quite different. For college graduates, the wage gap hasn’t narrowed at all since the mid-1990s.

    http://www.nationaljournal.com/njonline/no_20100508_1960.php/infographic-the-gender-divide-20120319 

  • Chelsea Rose

    I appreciate my fiance. He does a much better job than I do at tending the garden, keeping things tidy and cooking delectable dishes. And he sure looks yummy in those tight jeans! I thought it might nice to be the stay at home, but feel the current situation is probably better for our partnership….

  • Megan L.

    My well-paying job allowed my husband to go to medical school after earning his ph.D. He is finishing up his fellowship training in a year (9 years later) and I work part-time (20 hours), run the household and take care of the kids (3 under 5) and I still make more than he does. It works well for us and neither of us have had to sacrifice. There was a time when I thought I would want to stay home with the kids, but now that my youngest is 3 years away from full day kindergarten, I am looking forward to re-energizing my career.

  • Modavations

    The women of Sparta said,if you go to war they’ll be no more sex.Peace treaties were signed that night

  • Anonymous

    That’s exactly right. :)

  • Slipstream

    Thanks for doing this show.  I (male) have suspected for some time that things are moving in this direction.  I have found that feminist claims of women being discriminated against at work are not true, and that the opposite is probably true – that it is men who get discriminated against by women, under the guise of progress and helping their fellow females.  Have you ever seen a woman hire a man who is older than her?  I never have.

    But you know the old saying, ladies – be careful what you wish for…

    Absent from this discussion is any reference to the unravelling of so many American families, the high divorce rates, the increasing number of children being raised by one parent.  This may have gotten a little better in recent years.  Probably Mundy does not want to see any link between this and rising incomes and independence for women, but it surely exists.

    • HomeGirl

      Just clarifying – do you feel that women having economic independence destroys families?

  • Slipstream

    Yet again I am hearing the complaint from women that men refuse to do their share of the household chores.  This comes up  in virtually any PBS show that focuses on women’s issues.  Has anyone ever considered the possibility that men and women look at household work differently, and have different ideas about what is necessary and what is not necessary, what can be put off, and what has to be done right away?  And since when do you hear men complaining about how their wives refuse to help them change the oil or mow the lawn?  It would be a ridiculous subject for a public discussion except that it is a real problem for many families.

  • Slipstream

    The next battle for justice will be for fair treatment of heterosexual men in hiring and in the workplace.  And the authorities need to start doing more to emphasize the education of boys, too many of whom are not doing well in school and not getting into college.

    • Telling it Straight

       Oh my god – get a wife…. if youcan!

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Jul 29, 2014
The U.S. Senate is seen on Capitol Hill in Washington, Wednesday, July 16, 2014. (AP)

The “Do-Nothing” Congress just days before August recess. We’ll look at the causes and costs to the country of D.C. paralysis.

Jul 29, 2014
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