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Police Spying On Mosques

Blanket surveillance of Muslims has landed the NYPD in hot water. We’ll investigate.

Ismael el-Shikh stands in a prayer room at the Islamic Culture Center in Newark, N.J., Wednesday, Feb. 15, 2012. Americans in New Jersey's largest city were subjected to surveillance as part of the New York Police Department's effort to build databases of where Muslims work, shop and pray. (AP)

Ismael el-Shikh stands in a prayer room at the Islamic Culture Center in Newark, N.J., Wednesday, Feb. 15, 2012. Americans in New Jersey's largest city were subjected to surveillance as part of the New York Police Department's effort to build databases of where Muslims work, shop and pray. (AP)

New York took the biggest hit on 9/11. The New York City Police Department made the biggest response. Brought in big guns from the CIA. Pumped up surveillance all over. Launched a big campaign, deep and wide, to look in on its Muslim population.

For a while it won praise. Now people are wondering if the NYPD has gone too far. Maybe way too far. Spying on mosques. In mosques. Sweeping up worshipper license plates. Tracking Muslim students. Surveilling with a very broad brush. Well beyond New York.

This hour, On Point: How much is too much policing?

-Tom Ashbrook

Guests

Christopher Dickey, is the author of six books, including Securing the City: Inside America’s Best Counterterror Force—the NYPD.

Jethro Eisenstein, a New York lawyer who has filed suit against the city for the police department’s investigatory procedures.

Haroon Moghul, fellow at the Center on National Security at Fordham Law School and the Institute for Social Policy and Understanding. He was the director of public relations for the Islamic Center at New York University from 2007-2009.

From Tom’s Reading List

Associated Press “The New York Police Department targeted Muslim mosques with tactics normally reserved for criminal organizations, according to newly obtained police documents that showed police collecting the license plates of worshippers, monitoring them on surveillance cameras and cataloging sermons through a network of informants.”

Washington Post “In New York, thousands of miles away, it was a different story. At the Masjid Al-Falah in Queens, one leader condemned the cartoons but said Muslims should not resort to violence. Speaking at the Masjid Dawudi mosque in Brooklyn, another called on Muslims to speak out against the cartoons, but peacefully.”

Propublica “The report mapped so-called Locations of Concern in Newark, which were defined to include “Localized center[s] of activity for a particular ethnic group.” The only ethnic groups that are highlighted in the report are those that include Muslims. The report noted that the city’s “largest immigrant communities … are from Portugal and Brazil” but that “No Muslim component within these communities was identified.””

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  • Just Being Rational

    Given the fact that most terrorist attacks are carried out by fanatical Muslims, it sounds like the right thing to do if we want to prevent another attack from occurring.  The religious leaders stir people up to carry out jihad, and mosques are where like-minded people gather to form common plans.  Let’s face it.  Little old ladies living in nursing homes are suicide bombers.  In most cases, it’s Islamic extremists.

    • Just Being Rational

      Obviously I meant to say that Little old ladies aren’t suicide bombers.

      • Isaac Bresnick

        How hard do you think it would be to recruit, trick, or compel just one little old lady to blow up a plane?

    • Just Being Rational??

      Second most damaging terrorist attack on US soil was OK City…

    • Anonymous

      Appearance-profiling will lead you to always search for the last bad guy, and will do little to help you catch the next one.

      With that in mind, however, your reasoning is dubious, even accepting your premise. Of the nineteen hijackers on September 11, 2001, how many of them were radicalized in Western mosques? New York mosques? Jersey mosques? How many of them were radicalized in mosques, period?

      And why not just shut down mosques? I mean, that’s effectively what revealing that you’re spying on people does, right? If my parents knew that the FBI was watching their synagogue, they might be a little less likely to show up, right? So why not just close it down?

      That’s rhetorical: you don’t close it down, not just because it would violate the First Amendment, but because like-minded people will gather to form common plans just about any place they can, and the odds that dastardly plans are being formed in a publicly-accessible place like a mosque are pretty slim.

      • Jasoturner

        I find this to be a weak rebuttal.  Politically correct sensitivity does not negate the fact that of the nineteen hijackers of 9/11/01, 100% of them were what most folks would concede to be radical Muslims.  Where they were radicalized is not significant, though Germany is one Western country that some may recall was an apparent incubator.

        I think too that if one looks at international polling data, it is not unreasonable to conclude that Muslims appear to harbor a particular dislike for America and her actions.  To draw no national security conclusions from this is not being objective and open minded.  It is being dangerously indulgent.  The next bad guy may indeed be very much like the last bad guy in very significant ways.

        • Hidan

           Yet most of those Hickakers came from Saudi Arabia which not only practices the most extreme form of Islam it promote it. Yet nothing since has been done to change the government practice of the extreme form of Islam in Saudi Arabia as well.

          Alienating U.S. Muslims is not going to make  Americans safer. Such action will lead to resentment, violations of our constitution and possibly making it easier to recruit.

          Singling out an minority group as an demographic threat will almost always lead to bad things to come  and allows racist/xenophobe the power and ability to go much farther than you or most Americans would ever think or wish to allow.

          • Hidan

             hijacker

          • Jasoturner

            I am not advocating profiling or alienating Muslims.  Rather, I was pointing out that the original rebuttal to JBR was not logically strong.  This is a “meta” observation.  The merits or not of racial profiling is a different question which I have not addressed.

        • Isaac Bresnick

          If we’re spying on American mosques, don’t you think it’s an important datapoint to keep in mind? Even if we accept, for the sake of argument, that there’s something especially frightening about Muslims, the justification presented by JBR is that we should monitor American mosques because that’s where people are being “stirred up.”

          And that there are muslims abroad who aren’t keen on our foreign policy really shouldn’t suggest any particular course of action against American citizens. If citizens in the UK were expressing displeasure with our policies, would you suggest that we ought to tap Episcopalians? If it’s the italians, we ought to be observing more carefully all Roman Catholics in America? If there are Israelis who are bitter about, say, an opening of dialogue with the Palestinians, should we pay extra special attention to my parent’s synagogue?

          And one last thing: what does DOMESTIC polling tell us about how American muslims feel? Because, you know, those are the people we’re spying on.

          I’m not trying to rebut anything so much as I’m trying to raise enough doubts so that y’all will figure it out on your own.

          - Isaac

          • Jasoturner

            I did not state an opinion on profiling or domestic spying.  I was pointing out that the rebuttal to JBR was not strong logically.  There are certainly good arguments to be made against what the NYC PD was doing, but I did not find the one presented very persuasive.  In other words, it was a meta-observation.  And you’re right, we-all will figure it out.

        • Adks12020

          Sure, of the 19 hijackers 100% were radical Muslims….they are also only 19 people out of about 1.5 billion.  That’s a pretty darn far from 100% of all Muslims but hey, let’s just spy on every Muslim we can anyway since there are obviously so many that want to do us harm.

          • Jasoturner

            My point was not on the merits of spying or not.  My point was that the rebuttal to JBR was weak.  Move up one level – I am thinking about thinking, not thinking about the nastiness of domestic spying or racial profiling.  They are separate issues.  The fact is, I dislike weak arguments whether they support my own convictions or they don’t.

  • AC

    This feels old. Religious organizations themselves have always had spies and assasins & whatnot….I’m not sure what to make of it, but then again, I have a difficult time understanding ‘religion’ in the forms we are given. As to spying, I’d say they are victims of circumstance. I mean both the visitors to those mosques as well as the police doing the spying…

    • Hidan

       Possible an victim of circumstance. I hope it doesn’t lead to what happen to the Japanese American citizens in WW2. We have people in the U.S. who would gladly do such if they had a chance to.

      • AC

        we’re all victims of these ‘circumstances’. a few lunatics have ruined everyone’s lives……

        • Hidan

          My question to you is…

          -Do you allow those few lunatics to ruin your life?
          -How much freedom do you give up to feel a bit safer? 
          -Do you allow other the ability to ruin innocents lives because they belong to the same group?race?

          • AC

            i suppose by ‘accepting’ some of the silly security changes, i am allowing them to ruin my life. i don’t peg a race/group tag to lunatics – they come in all shapes in sizes, & they do terrify me. I’d say any that attach ‘God’ to their overall lunacy scare me the most! (thinking of that Waco wacko) you can’t reason with them….

          • AC

            Now I’m thinking of that Haley’s comet Nike guy….how do these people find one another? I suppose rather than targeting all associated with a religion, we would be better off studying group brainwash & seeing how that comes about….

          • Anonymous

            At least they only harmed themselves. 

          • AC

            That’s true. But it raises the question of the ‘lone shooter’ taking out the people around themselves before committing suicide…it seems to be growing in popularity in this country, especially among our youth….hmmmm wonder what it means….

    • Patrik

      Youre right AC, most religious orgs. throughout the ages have worked behind the scenes in most governments.  It seems that in any society there always has to be some kind of ‘enemy’ to be fearful of.

      • Modavations

        The Vatican is a state,legally

  • Hidan

    Wanna guess what the freedom loving conservatives views on this are going to be?

    Curious if these police abusive action has anything to do with twisted video the that was shown to NY police

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/24/nyregion/in-police-training-a-dark-film-on-us-muslims.html?pagewanted=all

  • Hidan

    Police Profile almost always leads to abuse and discrimination. Like most times this abuse is first justified as an safety/security concern and promised that such abusers are an small % and the others are taking the care not to. Until of course integration come out showing it’s an department wide thing. Than like always the wrong person gets control of said department and the abuse and discrimination excels. Once found the department heads and officers lie about what has happen until overwhelming evidences is provided showing they lied. Department head steps down or is transferred and the rest are off the hook.

    Things will get even worst if the police can hide such abuse by claiming national security.

  • Hidan

     Radical U.S. Muslims Little Threat, Study Says

    Charles Kurzman, the author of the report for the Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security, called terrorism by Muslim Americans “a minuscule threat to public safety.” Of about 14,000 murders in the United States last year, not a single one resulted from Islamic extremism, said Mr. Kurzman, a professor of sociology at the University of North Carolina

    The report also found that no single ethnic group predominated among Muslims charged in terrorism cases last year — six were of Arab ancestry, five were white, three were African-American and two were Iranian, Mr. Kurzman said. That pattern of ethnic diversity has held for those arrested since Sept. 11, 2001, he said.Forty percent of those charged in 2011 were converts to Islam, Mr. Kurzman found, slightly higher than the 35 percent of those charged since the 2001 attacks. His new report is based on the continuation of research he conducted for a book he published last year, “The Missing Martyrs: Why There Are So Few Muslim Terrorists.”

    http://sanford.duke.edu/centers/tcths/

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/08/us/radical-muslim-americans-pose-little-threat-study-says.html

    • Modavations

      The bomb in front of the Lion King would have greased 1000 peeps

  • JustSayin

    “Police Spying On Mosques” Deservedly so… Or another way, you reap what ye sow. Its not like any of these religions confront and reject the extremists operating in their “faiths”. At the very best, they likely welcome that someone with authority removes the nuts they themselves are unwilling to remove.  

    I’m glad the police are watching for religious extremists. It is politically correct nonsense that religious groups and their institutions are above the secular laws of the country in which they reside. The pedophiles in the Catholic Church, the universities, the churches, the mosques, reservations, and our homes are not exempt from the rule of law.

    • Anonymous

      What exactly is it that Muslims in New York City and New Jersey sowed?

      - Isaac

      • Modavations

        Diid you ever see the photo of the lads dancing on the roof of their van,while smoke poured from the WTC

        • Isaac Bresnick

          Surely a representative sample if I ever saw one.

          • Modavations

            I’m explaining and you’re making excuses.The whole world saw that photo

          • Isaac Bresnick

            No, you’re demonstrating poor logic and I’m teasing you for it.

          • Modavations

            Dude I spar with one half of my brain tied behind my back

    • Hidan

       ‘US Muslims integral to law enforcement’http://www.presstv.ir/detail/164632.htmlThe US city of Los Angeles has remained safe from terrorist attacks by what experts have credited to Muslim American cooperation with law enforcement.“Seven out of the last eleven plots that al-Qaeda has tried to detonate in the United States have been foiled with the help of American Muslims,” Aziza Hasan of the Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC) told Press TV.Hasan — the Southern California Government Relations director for MPAC — says the Council is dedicated to working with law enforcement, especially in vital security areas like LA.A spokesman for the LA County Sheriff Steve Whitmore told Press TV, “We’re working closely with the mosques. [Sheriff Lee Baca] goes and speaks with them. They come. He has a Muslim American Advisory Council… He has two deputies that are Muslim Americans.”Report below http://la-sheriff.org/sites/muslimoutreach_new/Top_Stories/MCA%20Overview%20Jan%202011%20LoRes.pdf

    • http://twitter.com/DeucePrez Deuce Prez

       Yes, JustSayin…..we read what you were “sayin’”, but we will give you a pass as you, apparently, don’t even have the facts about what you were just sayin’.

    • nj_v2

      Oops, someone didn’t heed Lincoln’s advice, “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.”

      Just sayin’…

      Small sampling…

      https://www.csidonline.org/press-releases/23-press-releases/405-american-muslims-and-scholars-denounce-terrorism

      Washington, DC (September 9, 2002) – Several prominent American Muslims, organizations, and scholars issued the following statement denouncing violence and terrorism, especially in the name of Islam, a religion of peace and justice.The statement was issued on the eve of the first anniversary of the tragedy of Sept. 11, and has been signed by 199 prominent American Muslims, and scholars of Islam from all over the world.http://www.archives2004.ghazali.net/html/muslim_leaders_denounce.htmlA growing number of American Muslim leaders are publicly denouncing the violence committed by religious extremists and are trying to take control of defining their faith. Through news releases, public forums and petitions, Muslim groups in Minnesota and across the country have gone on record condemning the recent beheadings of Americans Nick Berg and Paul M. Johnson Jr. and South Korean Kim Sun-il.”We wish to state clearly that those who commit acts of terror, murder and cruelty in the name of Islam are not only destroying innocent lives, but are also betraying the values of the faith they claim to represent,” read a statement by the Twin Cities-based Islamic Resource Group on the day news broke of Johnson’s murder.Hundreds of thousands of Muslims have signed an online petition condemning terrorist acts since it was posted last month by the Council on American-Islamic Relations, a national Muslim civil rights group in Washington, D.C.

      • JustSayin

         So… you believe that groups that may harbor or create violent extremists should be self regulating?  A kind of Reaganomics for terrorism. No oversight… Just political correctness applied until the attack is completed.

        If we could ask the WTC dead what they think of your plan for terrorist self regulation… which fool would they support in this argument?

  • Brettearle

    What legal right do city, state, or federal governments have to implement such monitoring?

    This policy is excessive–and, I believe, violates religious rights and may be demonstrating bias against a large ethnic group of people.

    If there is a great deal of crime, in the inner city, does that give the police the right to frisk individuals for firearms–because of the color of their skin, if they are under the impression that skin color is connected to high violent crime?

    I don’t think so.

    If NYC is following the rules of the Patriot Act, then rhis law has gone too far.

    This measure, by Bloomberg, reeks of Japanese WWII Internment.   

    • Hidan

       If there is a great deal of crime, in the inner city, does that give the
      police the right to frisk individuals for firearms–because of the
      color of their skin, if they are under the impression that skin color is
      connected to high violent crime?

      NY Police department tried just that. Of course violating the rights of minorities

      http://www.nyclu.org/stopandfrisk

      • Modavations

        Bull,NYC put up road blocks in Harlem and the crime rate plummeted

    • notafeminista

      Oh hush.  If they targeted wealthy white males over the age of 35 there wouldn’t be a peep from the Left.

  • Hidan

    A good question should be if there is an decline in terrorist attacks by Muslims in U.S. than why is the U.S. police department stepping up there spying and profiling of Muslims? Is there a factor promoting such abuse? Or who would gain in promoting profiling and discrimination against Muslims? 

    • http://twitter.com/DeucePrez Deuce Prez

       Hidan:

      One group of people who stand to gain from the profiling and discrimination against Muslims is the paid Islamaphobes.  This group of degenerates profit by promoting themselves and other Islamaphobes as being “ex-perts” in the area of Islam or Islamic terrorism, and none of them are knowledgeable in either area.

      Some of these self-touted “ex-perts” charge fees for speaking engagements to incite others with their version of the truth of Islam and Muslims.  Others even train law enforcement officials (at all levels), poisoning them with their bigotry against Islam.

      They produce short films and training material that is left behind to train (deceive) those that did not attend the training that they gave in-person, so the deception lingers long after they’ve left!

    • Modavations

      You must be in heaven today!!!!

      • Hidan

         Good Morning Moda Troll. As noted earlier the authoritarian right are the ones that wish to strip others of there rights.

        Feel free to prove me right today.

        • Modavations

          The Police State is an invention of the left as was Hitler,Stalin,Pol POT.The economiocally advantaged countries do not fall pray to big Govt.pathology………

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1816544 Dan Trindade

    Must we always demonize religious and ethnic minorities that the majority in this country do not understand? Extremism is extremism whether it is Islamic, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish, right wing, left wing or anything in between. The most effective tool in our arsenal should not be pervasive surveillance but education and understanding and to focus so heavily and invasively on a population that is by and large just looking to coexist with the rest of us is not only ignorant it is down right xenophobic.

    • AC

      I agree. Extremism is irrational, therefor not the norm.

  • U.S. Vet.

    Stop complaining about the fact that the goverment is spying on you 24-7.

    You always wanted to live North Korea, right?

  • Modavations

    The purveyors of Big Govt,now complain about Big Brother.Remember the 4 year old????Unhand your lunch box,raise your hands and slowly step away.

    • Patrik

      You’re throwing the baby out with the bath water.

      • Modavations

        Integration not balkanization

        • Isaac Bresnick

          What?

          • Modavations

            Muslim Balkanization in Dearborn,Paris,London.Come on kid,think on your feet.

  • Modavations

    The Govt.of Nederlands banned “head gear”in public as of Jan 1,.and is demanding all immigrants speak the Lingua Franca.Who burned down Paris?.This Balkanization must stop.when I was a kid,we were preached the Melting Pot.There was no hynphenated American.

  • Modavations

    If we want peace make our enemies our trading partners ie.,S.Korea,Japan,Germany(China needs the US market,more then we need their cheap goods).Laissez faire cures all.Unfortuneatly other then oil,the Mideast offers little.

    • Anonymous

      Funny how you have a lot in common with your comment on the Middle East, you offer little as well.

      • Modavations

        Jeffe68 The only human I know with rabies.You’ve made a post or two without invective and it’s 9:00 so let it rip

        • Obi Wan Cory

          I think yours is an ad hominem attack, and should be deleted.

          • Modavations

            Free speech and elections…..Who needs em

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1816544 Dan Trindade

      Great idea man. Now all we have to do to make this happen is go to war with our enemies, bomb them into submission then rebuild them from the ground up in our own image. Shouldn’t be that hard, right?

  • Anonymous

    This is nothing new. The police have done this kind of thing since the 1900′s. The problem is, if they are violating the rights of citizens, and they do find some illegal activity, then what.
    Gathering evidence without probable cause and warrants is bad police work. 

  • Modavations

    As long as Muslim citizens(Dearborn) maintain the nuclear family and adhere to lfree market economics,they will thrive.They understand Laissez Faire.Phoenecians were amongst the greatest traders of antiquity.If they get immeshed in the Democrat Welfare Web,they will end up like the citizens of Detroit where the literacy rate is 50%.The Unions killed Eastern Airline,they killed American airline,they killed Gm,they killed the P.Office,they killed the public school and the Social Service Industrial complex killed Detroit

    • Isaac Bresnick

      What does that have to do with the topic?

      • Modavations

        Muslims!!!!

        • Isaac Bresnick

          The topic, as you can tell by looking at the header on your browser, is “Police Spying on Mosques.” Whether Muslims, en masse, adopt laissez-faire policies (however it is they’re supposed to do it) is entirely outside the scope of this discussion.

          • Modavations

            The topic is Big Brother and The Pervasive State!!!!.The State to which you bow,no doubt.Get your hands off my lt.Bulbs and the thugs out of my kids lunch pail.

          • Anonymous

            How about you removing your mendacity from this forum. 

          • Modavations

            Proof of mendacity is???What you react to is free speech.

          • Anonymous

            Light bulbs? You’re against energy-efficient light bulbs? You must be western Iowa’s very own Rep. Steve King, Iowa’s chief embarrassment.

          • Ray in VT

            You’re in for a real treat with this guy.  Just wait until he starts making fun of you for stuff that he makes up that he attributes to you.  He’ll probably also pick some moronic nickname for you.

          • Modavations

            Ad hominen attacks huh.You’ve already showed your hand and I hardly knew ye.Don’t tell me what light bulbs to use,don’t tell me what car to drive,get your mitts out of my kids lunch box

          • nj_v2

            Moda-trolling at its best. Just keep repeating the same, ignorant inanities over and over. Could have a future as a politician.

          • Anonymous

            You will find that this guy has some issues. That he is either incapable of comprehending what people are posting here or just refuses to take in what one writes is not clear.
            However his inanity is very clear.

    • Obi Wan Cory

      I think the Pheonicians predated Islam.

      • Modavations

        Syrians dope,Lebanese dope

    • Anonymous

      Laissez-faire on Wall Street brought the U.S. economy to its knees as Wall Street gamblers gambled away billions of dollars. Wall Street gamblers have been made whole by us taxpayers, but Main Street is still suffering. Sensible and tough regulation of financial transactions is a must. Dodd-Frank is a joke, so we still don’t have sensible and tough regulation. Laissez-faire continues to prevail and an economic collapse could happen all over again.

      • Modavations

        Fannie and Freddie gave them the ammo.They did nothing wrong,if so prosecute.Franklin Raines,Jamie Gorelick,Herr Johnson walked with 100million in commission.Janet Reno told the banks,give the m,ortgages,or we’ll torch you up!!!Wall St.gives two to one ro Democrats.Herr Schumer is Wall Sts.Patron saint.Corzine walked with 1.2 billion

  • Modavations

    A Million Muslim Man March in D.C.,denouncing terrorism would be a P.R.coup

    • Obi Wan Cory

      What if they don’t want to?

      • Modavations

        They’ll feel the prejudices mount,they’ll feel the intrusive police state.What a Nerd ,name by the way!!!Go back to Cory W.please

        • Anonymous

          Nasty ad hominem attacks. I’m a new commenter, and I already find you offensive.

          • Modavations

            By the end of the day I’ll have taken so many arrows I’ll look like a porcupine.You’re new,wait a week.By the way,I love your stuff

          • nj_v2

            Moda is the resident troll. Full of himself, thinks he’s about four times as clever as he is, lazy, ignorant, projects his flaws onto others, hungry for attention (hence the incessant trolling, returning to threads time after time days after the program, playing victim to disguise his own immaturity, etc.).

            Best to mostly ignore him, and flag the worst of his puerile behavior.

          • Modavations

            lazy,ignorant,projects flaws,trolling….Oui monsieur,(ou Madame!!!)c’est vrai,vous avez les tourettes.Arn’t you the guy who calls me a vile little man,just vile

        • Obi Wan Cory

          If the pocket protector fits…

    • TFRX

      Yes, that’s the one thing that will convince the American “Talibangelicals” that Muslims are not to all be painted with the same brush.

      And I’m sure Fox News, Matt Drudge, and Sean Hannity are ready to do a calm, detached, service to journalism on such an event.

  • Modavations

    Funny how NPR’s usual suspects hate Christianity,but are silent about radical muslimism

    • Yar

      A Christian Theocracy is not the proper response to a few Islamic extremists.  Coded language in conservative American politics are polarizing our citizens into a religious civil war, painting the acts of few angry people as a universal theocratic war of Good against Evil.  This is dangerous political group think, and scary theology.  When we believe we are “Good” we lose rational thought. 

      • JustSayin

         Well put, and on point.

      • Modavations

        Here’s a guy who thinks the welfare state should be fully funded.Beware the Nanny State Social Worker.A few angry people can be the world to it’s knees.The Lion King bomb would have killed 1000 people.You’re Welfare State has done far more damage,however

        • PaulCJr

          Careful about what you mean by nanny state. There are many organizations that people would consider right of center that get a lot of government funding. 

        • Anonymous

          Don’t you have some gems to sell?

          • Modavations

            Free speech,voting,exchange of ideas……Highly overated

      • Anonymous

        Leftists also believe they are “good.” Not just good, but superior to others, and they too lose rational thought. There’s intolerance and irrational mythology on both sides.

        • Yar

          The problem comes from choosing sides.

    • Brettearle

      Are you going to tell us that “On Point” doesn’t have guests on, who support basic Christian precepts and ideals–when discussing such issues as abortion, contraception, compulsory sonograms, women priests or liberation theology, etc…..

      C’mon….

      • Modavations

        I differentate between the posters and NPR

      • Anonymous

        If you call “On Point,” the politically correct interviewer will censor your comments on “harassing Muslims,” as she puts it. There’s no room for middle ground. I’m a Democrat, but I also know New York City’s history of the last 12 years. NYC is traumatized for a reason.

    • Isaac Bresnick

      There’s no inconsistency. You show me a politician seeking to impose Islamic religious values into government policy, and I’ll show you a room-full of liberals who are opposed to it.

      The difference is, Moda, that you’re comparing the scapegoating of an American religious minority to the wish of certain portions of an American religious majority to craft an American theocracy in their image.

      • Modavations

        Keith Ellison????/Atheism is a cult of the communist.Agnostics have their noodles screwed on right

      • Modavations

        I have no god,except when I’m taking off and landing in a jet.The left’s antipathy to christianity is purely because your god is the State

        • Isaac Bresnick

          The left doesn’t have antipathy towards Christianity.

          • Modavations

            You are obviously a new poster.Check the daily rants of our resident pedophile Terry TT,the Tourettes prone(?)TRFX,the rabid Jefe68,that vile little man NJ..NPR is hardly the home of the open minded,nor tolerant.There[‘s a guy Jason A that pops in and actually says of all “righties”,hang em.

          • Isaac Bresnick

            Surely a representative sample.

          • Modavations

            You haven’t seen anything.Wait till you get a hold of TerryTT.He’s gets up late.Hangovers I think

          • Anonymous

            Ahh yes, the name calling starts.  You call me rabid only because I call your inane comments out. You are the very definition of intolerance and ignorance. The only rabid antics seem to be in your court bud.

          • Modavations

            envy,inane,intolerance,inane,intolerance,ignorance.antics….Just human rabies.Wait till he gets in High Dudgeon,you’ve seen nothing.This guy is in his 50′s ,he’s not a college boy.His Rabies are legion,he has a million posts,just pick any day,any topic

          • TFRX

            Tourettes’? Moi?

            Project much?

        • PaulCJr

          I think you’re trying to push your own agenda and believe what you want to believe when it’s not the case. NPR does a pretty darn good job of trying to keep its reporting balanced. That can’t be said about of other news agencies. 

          • Anonymous

            PaulCJr, NPR does NOT “do a pretty darn good job of trying to keep its reporting balanced.” I just read Juan Williams’ book “Muzzled: The Assault on Honest Debate,” and it’s an outstanding book. Williams comments about why and how he was fired by NPR exec Ellen Weiss. Imagine working for NPR for years and being fired over the phone by an ideologue at the other end. Heads rolled after that, and deservedly so. Ellen Weiss was one of the casualties and the haughty CEO at the time, who spoke of Williams’ fantasy “psychiatrist,” also lost her job, deservedly so.

          • Modavations

            Only a leftist would say that.Mr Ashbrooke went on and on about Gabby’s shooter being a Teapartyer.This,after lefties called up to say ,whack jobs come from all extremes.Gabby’s shooter was a lefty hippy,the Kennedy’s were offed by leftist loons.

    • Obi Wan Cory

      I’m Catholic.  I don’t know if this means I hate Christianity, but I don’t hate Islam either.

      • Modavations

        Obi Wan is a name used by immature college boys.

        • Anonymous

          Not nice. Ad hominem attack, Modavations.

        • Obi Wan Cory

          also by a Sith slaying Master Jedi…

  • Yar

    A police state will never provide security in a democratic nation.  The concept is wrong, and the power corrupts. Attempts to trade democracy for safety looses on both fronts in safety and democracy.
    I am troubled with the relationship  NYPD has with the FBI, the CIA and the NSA.  Good cop bad cop violates laws intended to protect our people from Government sponsored abuse.  Go back to the exploitation of resources at the expense of local peoples and it is easy to understand the source of hate against Americans from other parts of the world.  We supported corrupt leaders in countries with oil for cheap access to their energy.  Religion is simply a vehicle to a political end and hate is a weapon.  If we can’t see our own culpability for exploitation of middle east resources then our response is misguided.  We are reaping what we have sown, our silence on violation of human rights as we purchase oil from repressive regimes creates violence.  We are guilty of repression every time we fill our tank.  We don’t want the truth, but the truth starts with being sorry in trading with despots for oil. Just as we need separation of Church and State we must also demand separation of police powers, the public should know about interactions between NYPD and Federal agencies.  The NYPD should not be involved in international spying.  The NYPD is currently working outside of its jurisdiction.  A democracy doesn’t tolerate undercover police presence in Church and a democracy is much safer than a police state.  If you want to fight for good, then fight to stop this abuse of police power.

  • AC

    i wonder if there’s a way to tell if a given person has the predisposition to ‘going postal’. i can’t see myself ever doing that, but i’ve never been tested either….

    • Modavations

      Abso friggin lutely.Monitor heart beats over the suspects life.

      • AC

        how do you pick the suspect to begin with?

        • Modavations

          Just watch the heart beats.Psychos stand out!!!Speak to your cardiologist.You could monitor blood sugar,etc,.your preference.

    • Anonymous

      AC, since “going postal” is now a common expression, the U.S. Post Office has tried hard to come up with a profile that would enable them to weed out those likely to “go postal.” However, other workplaces have suffered attacks by employees and former employees. Bullying and scapegoating is one of the causes. Love triangles is another reason.

  • Modavations

    Did you guys ever hear about the Mau Mau Uprising.One night the maids of Kenyan unlocked the doors

    • Anonymous

      What does that have to do with this subject?
      How does a an uprising in Kenya, their country by the way, have anything to do with this?

      • Modavations

        Europe is up to the brim in Muslims!!!!!And one night…..

  • AC

    gees. sorry i brought up school shootings….it seems theres been another one….

  • wauch

    Emperor Bloomberg and his police commissioner must be reigned in. Constantly invoking 9/11 as if that will shake everyone to their knees. There are dangers always and everywhere but targeting Muslims and stating we have to “prevent things” is ridiculous!

    • Modavations

      As a world traveler NYC is the center of the universe.Mayor Gulliani(?)take a bow,you taught Mayor Bloomberg how to run a city

  • PaulCJr

    Police state, no. Maybe this is one of the few things that NYPD actually does. Do they enforce other laws, like traffic laws, no. Do they harass Muslims, I don’t know, possibly. Do they harass cyclist, yes. Do they stand around and not try to get involved in things going on during the course of the day, yes. So I can’t call NYPD and NYC a police state.  

    • Adks12020

      haha..well, I see your point but the KGB didn’t enforce traffic laws either.  They spied on, and collected information about, their own citizens covertly.

      • PaulCJr

        I’m no expert on the KGB, but I believe it’s more of an intelligence agency on par with the CIA rather than NYPD.

        • Adks12020

          That was my point.  The NYPD is acting as an intelligence agency in this case.  What they are doing seems beyond the scope of their duties.  Leave intelligence to CIA and FBI, especially beyond the boundaries of the city and state of NY. That is their job.

  • Adks12020

    Does anyone else think the fact that the NYPD is conducting investigations not only beyond the city limits but beyond state boundaries is scary?  Not to mention the fact that it doesn’t seem very legal to me (although the definition of legal investigations and searches has really been stretched since the USA Patriot Act was passed).  I don’t care what Bloomberg says.

    It seems as though those types of investigations should be performed by the FBI if they are performed at all.  Where does the NYPD get off investigating people that have not committed any crime and doing so beyond their jurisdiction?

    Is this our version of the secret police used in communist countries?

    • PaulCJr

      No. All police departments do this. There is a lot of sharing of information and police from different cities in other cities watching criminals. 

      • TFRX

        I don’t know that I trust your choice of words.

        Do you mean “criminals”, or “people at large”.

        Can you guarantee all the people they watch and trade info about are “criminals”?

        • PaulCJr

          No you’re right. It can’t be guaranteed. 

          • TFRX

            (Yeah, I shoulda been more clear with my use of the “proverbial you”, not the “literal you”.

            I was trying to comment on how “criminals” gets inserted into everday statements about controversies like this, and often is passed along in our mainstream media without examination.)

          • notafeminista

            Not unlike referring to the “criminal elite” …generally used when referring to an individual who has more money than the commenter.

          • TFRX

            You really have to work harder than that.

          • Modavations

            I’ll side with probable chance

      • Adks12020

        There is a difference between sharing information and police officers of one city actually conducting investigations without the knowledge of the police and government of the city in which they are operating. 

        Also, generally when police from different cities cooperate with each other they are investigating an actual crime, not simply investigating people based on religious affiliation that have not committed any crime.

  • Isaac Bresnick

    The targetting of Muslims, as a group, and their religious places without regard given to any connection (or lack thereof) to any crime seems suspect. Even assuming the NYPD had warrants in this case to do what they’ve done, it seems to conflict with the Fourteenth Amendment’s equal protection requirements, and certainly creates a “chilling effect” for anyone remotely interested in walking into a New York mosque.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Mayor Bloomberg believes in freedom for himself and his cronies.  The rest of the population had better stay in line.

    • Anonymous

      Greg Camp, I certainly agree with you as to the way Mayor Bloomberg treated Occupy Wall Street. He showed his hand then, and now I would never vote for him as president. I’d liked him up till then.

      However, NYC has not forgotten that it was a blind imam at a NYC mosque who planned the first bombing of the World Trade Center, which killed one man, and mostly Saudi Wahabi Muslims who attacked the World Trade Center the second time, killing about 3,000 people.

      I know that attacks by jet planes don’t explain the controlled implosion of WTC building 7, but I certainly think the NYCPD has NO reason to trust that the federal government will keep NYC safe since it was gross negligence by George W. Bush and Condoleezza Rice that allowed the second attack. Rice protected Bush and wouldn’t allow Richard Clarke and George Tenet to organize a terrorist threat meeting with the president until 9/4/11, when it was too late.

      Read Richard A. Clarke’s book “Against All Enemies” and also the book “House of Bush, House of Saud.”

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

         9/11 conspiracy theories again?  WTC 7 was not a controlled implosion and on and on.

      • Isaac Bresnick

        Wait, do you have a citation for the “blind imam” claim?

  • William

    It’s a necesssary program brought on by the radical Islamic religion that seems unable to eliminate the terrorists within it’s ranks.

    • Isaac Bresnick

      Is there evidence that there are “terrorists” within the ranks of American Muslims? Is there evidence that the “Islamic religion” (whatever that means) COULD do anything about it?

      • Anonymous

        Pull-EEZE, Isaac. Is there evidence? What do you think? Remember when the former director of the American Muslim Association in D.C. or Falls Church, VA was arrested for funneling money to al-Qaida?

        • Isaac Bresnick

          Nope. Got a citation?

          • Modavations

            A canard,just a stalling tactic son

      • Modavations

        Remember Cair.They were suing citizens that reported suspicious air line passengers.Cair got indicted(?)for funding Terrorists

        • Isaac Bresnick

          [citation needed]

          • Modavations

            Take it or leave it.I don’t do others homework

          • Isaac Bresnick

            It’s your claim, pal.

      • William

        Fort Hood shootings.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       Shall we monitor Christian churches because of radicals within their ranks?

      • Anonymous

        Greg Camp, yes. Some of them kill ob./gyn. doctors who perform legal abortions. Radical Christians are a potential threat. There should be warrants first, however.

    • TFRX

      The guy who’s never considered he’d be on the butt end of police power abuse chimes in.

      What do you suggest we get to do to eliminate radical Christians?

      • TFRX

        …make that “radical Christianity”

        (My own editing error.)

    • http://www.press-citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=pluckpersona&U=d884e4f565084bbc8bd4b1f012eb2f0b Maria Houser Conzemius

      William, “unable” or unwilling?

  • Eric

    “Raking the coals” – Really???  I’ve been heating my house with a wood stove for 30 years and I can tell you that raking the coals is what you do when you want to build a fire up – not put it out.  What sort of hidden agenda might we be talking about?

  • Anonymous

    I guess I’m less afraid of a hypothetical bomb than I am of oppressive government.  But that’s probably because I remember the ’50′s when we were “overrun” by commies who turned out to be your cousin or your favorite film director, neither of whom was a commie or even the remotest threat to America.  Often they were people whose liberal beliefs were unpopular with the establishment.  The “commie” myth still hangs over our politics after all these years only now the word “socialism” is more in use.  It doesn’t have to be that way; we don’t have to continue have a shape-shifting enemy just in order to feed the defense industry or NYPD.

    Until we realize that enemies are useful to politicians and the governments agencies they manage, we will all be at risk and we will continue to live in “freedom” that isn’t really free and elect “good family people” who really aren’t all that good.

    • Modavations

      70 members of the House are socialists,according to SDA(?).Alger Hiss, anyone!!!!My pop’s was blacklisted.There were plenty of commies among his mates.

    • notafeminista

      “Commie” isn’t a myth.  Everyone saw East Germany after the wall came down.  That wasn’t mythology and yet the Left continues to defend it.

      As I said.  People don’t want the freedom. They want security.  Security of jobs, security of outcomes, security of results and they don’t care who or what gets damaged in the process.

  • Prospero212

    I’m pretty far left, but this sounds like good police work. As an Irish-American, I’d like se comparison to the ways that the Irish community as investigated for IRA connections during the Troubles in the 80s. the Irish were valued members of the same NYC power structure that was investigating Irish bars and Catholic masses. I don’t condone stereotyping or violence against any cultural group, but of u r looking for Muslim extremists where else would you look?
    Kevin from Boston

    • Eric

      You would monitor “chatter” and look for evidence of activities – from afar.  And then when you find something, you get a search warrant.  It is the warrantless nature of this activity that is unconstitutional.

  • Judy

    All we have to do is ask ourselves, how would we feel if this actions were being taken monitoring synagogues, or churches of a specific theology.  This is obscene that authorities in NY believe that they can justify these actions based solely on the religious beliefs of those being monitored.  If this is not questioned, and stopped, what other actions will be allowed??

    • Anonymous

      Judy, when and if Jews worshiping in synagogues start blowing up NYC skyscrapers, I’m sure they will be watched and profiled.

  • Eric

    I have a comment about lawyers.  I have no personal agenda either for or against, but the instinct of lawyers – and their oath to the Bar Association – is to advocate for the people they represent.  Lawyers in the pay of the NYPD cannot avoid interpreting the laws in the most favorable way to their client and employer.

    • Isaac Bresnick

      “Zealous advocacy” and all that jazz, though, in the defense of lawyers, they’re equally bound to tell their clients the bad, as well as the good.

      • Modavations

        Dude,you’ve already written “War and Peace”and it’s only 11:00

    • notafeminista

      Just as any attorney would, no? 

  • Fred

    This should not come as a big surprise after CBS’s 60 Minutes season premiere broadcast on Sunday 9/11/2011, the 10 anniversary of the WTC disaster.  Couple this with this season’s network TV series (also on CBS) “Person of Interest” (in this case “Muslim’s”) and you get the current situation.
    Record everything, let the lawyers sort it out……. 
    Just remember to smile for Big Brother.

  • Ric

    The 2008 gallup poll identified nearly eighty million Muslims who felt that the attacks of 911 were justified. Arguably eighty million mortal enemies of the United States. How can we charge an organization with the responsibility to protect us from these individuals, as we must, and then prohibit that organization from seeking them out?

    • Eric

      I don’t think those eighty million were living in the United States.  Within the United States, we theoretically have a constitution and equal protection for all, no matter what religion they pursue.  Islam is not inherently terrorist, and you can find terrorists on the fundamentalist fringe of every religion.  Consider the Oklahoma City bombing, conducted by a fundamentalist Christian.  Does this mean that all Christians are terrorists?  As Prospero22 noted, in the 80′s it was the Irish Americans during the time of troubles.  

      • Ric

        It is the responsibility of the 93% to address the 7%. In the US, we make our radicals live in the woods. Well, for the most part, sometimes one runs for President. Until the muslim majority controls their own radicals, we have to do our best to control them ourselves

    • Isaac Bresnick

      So, if we accept the estimate that there were 1.1 billion Muslims in the world at that time, you’re telling me that 7.27% of Muslims think that the attacks on September 11th were “justified,” then 92.73% think that the attacks weren’t?

      And what are the numbers for American Muslims? Because, you know, that’s who the NYPD is spying on.

    • Ric

      It is the responsibility of the 93% to address the 7%. In the US, we make our radicals live in the woods. Well, for the most part, sometimes one runs for President. Until the muslim majority controls their own radicals, we have to do our best to control them ourselves

      • Isaac Bresnick

        And those radicals aren’t ostracized in the United States? Evidence?

      • Anonymous

            What a refreshingly Democratic idea. We’re all responsible for everyone else. Guy selling crack on the corner? Sorry, my bad. Drunk driver just killed a family of four on the highway? I guess that’s your fault. Oh, that Timothy McVeigh . How could we all have allowed one of our radicals to do such a horrible thing? All of you Catholics in America? You should all be ashamed of yourselves for not controlling all those abusive priests which Ric claims were your responsibility.

  • Maria Houser Conzemius

    The “On Point” telephone interviewer said that she did not understand my
    point about the NYCPD “harassing Muslims,” as she put it. After listening
    to my comment a second time about the fact that a blind imam of a NYC
    mosque planned the first WTC attack, she got back to me on the phone and
    said there were “too many other callers ahead of me” and I wouldn’t be
    allowed to speak, but my comment would be conveyed to Tom Ashbrook.

    Bias, bias, bias. To call right away as soon as the subject was announced,
    to have the phone answered on the first phone call I tried to the show, and
    then to be told that the person answering the phone didn’t understand my
    point about the NYCPD “harassing Muslims,” as she put it (not my verb
    “harassing,” but hers) is offensive.

    Sincerely, a not entirely politically correct fan,
    Maria Houser Conzemius
    Iowa City, IA

  • Yar

    Remember Richard Nixon’s Enemies list?  Think what he would have done if he had access to technology available today.  We must be ten times more vigilant to abuse of power today.

    • Modavations

      Your opinion of monitoring my kids lunch box is what

      • Yar

        My son was suspended for three days taking a pocket knife to school, that we got as an prize for selling boy scout popcorn. He sold the popcorn to his teachers. We strain at the Gnat and swallow the Camel.
        Protein allergies such as peanuts is better solved through education than policing. If my child faced death from exposure to nuts, I may want him to eat in a nut free environment.

        • Modavations

          Wait till he gets lugged for drawing a pistol

    • Modavations

      What is your opinion of the Kennedy;’s keeping tabs on Martin Luther King

      • Yar

        It was wrong, remember, they both lost their lives. Did the police state have anything to do with it? We may never know for sure.
        Simply collecting information has risks that it will be misused. Recording a conversation may lead to a stock tip that leads to a market swings that cost the average persons retirement value.
        Leaks happen!
        We end up paying for crimes at least twice.

    • notafeminista

      We already imagine it.  President Obama’s adminstration calls it attackwatch.com

  • Aimee

    I would challenge any person who thinks this is acceptable to imagine this same scenario if it was Christian churches being spied on in order to prevent KKK activity. Seem a little ridiculous now?

    • Modavations

      The KKK was invented by Southern Democrats.I don’t think the left surveils itself.

      • Isaac Bresnick

        Oh, dear god. Educate yourself.

        • Anonymous

          That brother, is not in that mans realm.

      • Ray in VT

        You mean that well known liberal institution, the KKK?  Of course you think that the Nazis were socialists.

  • JAMESDTHOMPSON

    “If your doing nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about.”  “If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about.”  This same mentality could be applied to search warrants or random stops and searches.  Clearly unconstitutional.  It implies one is guilty rather than innocent until proven so.  When one rightly questions such draconian anti-American policies then we are asked “Who’s side are you on?”  or told “You are either with us or against us.”  Very sad, although this is not a new thing in the United States.  Hopefully we will overcome this era of fear too.

  • Guest

    My question to all the gentlemen is this: if this is not targeting religion, I would like confirmation that the NY Police Department is also documenting and evaluating catholic,  protestant and other religious entities to the degree that they are targeting Muslim entities.  Homegrown terrorism is broad and is not just from Muslim background. If the NYPD is trying to secure and protect, then I require verification that they are being thorough and are conducting the same measures with all churches and religiions entities in that same 250 mile area…otherwise their arguments are a bunch of hogwash!

    • Modavations

      When Muslims quit blowing up the world,they will be embraced

      • Eric

        What?  Like the Irgun in Palestine?  I think it ironic that the hebrew word for “terror” – irgun – the Israeli government now uses to refer to certain Palestinian organizations, is how they referred to themselves when fighting the British in 1948.

        • Modavations

          mUMBIA,SOUTHERN tHAILAND,SOUTHERN philipines,Indonesia,the entire mideast,suburbs of Paris,suburbs of London and their buses,subways in Madrid,jihadi camps in central america,Kenya,Venezuela,Libya,Egypt,Somalia,Checnya,Turkey,……..I’ve got more examples of the Religion of Peace

  • Rudybayga

    From Associated Press: White House funding some NYPD surveillance of Muslims: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/27/nypd-muslim-surveillance_n_1303400.html

  • Eraymond

    I wonder if all these callers and the NYPD who say there is no problem with the NYPD monitoring of mosques and student groups would have thought that it would have been OK for the police to monitor conservative Christian churches and college Intervarsity Christian Fellowship groups on college campuses after the Oklahoma and Atlanta bombings?

    • Modavations

      I think the head of Homeland Security monitors returning soldiers,teapartyers,etc,.I think the fraudulent “Souhtern Poverty whatever”, has made a cottage industry of monitoring christians.I believe Pres.Obama has a snitch line to turn in folks with unflattering pol.position.I believe Media Matters(Soros)has meetings at the White House, to construct political assassination

      • TFRX

        the fraudulent “Southern Poverty (Law Center)

        Submitted without comment.

      • Anonymous

        Oh boy, are you in need of that much attention that you have to post here all day?

  • Carlito

    It’s easy for us to consider this kind of surveillance as just “necessary police work”, as long as it affects some ‘outsider’ group. As the ex-cop commenter mentioned, we found excuses to do this and much worse to Japanese Americans not so long ago. But if the government were to begin surveilling for example Evangelical Christian groups, or Jewish groups, based on excuses about ‘domestic terrorism’, I think we’d be hearing a very different response from most Americans. 

  • public_enemy

    we exist in a collective society. i would suggest we foster a relationship of believing we are all of the community known as the USA.  if you have investiture in our community, maybe you’re less inclined to commit atrocities, although maybe i am naive…..

    • Modavations

      dON’T SAY cOLLECTIVE AROUND ME PLEASE

      • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

        Your CAPS key is still ON.

        • Modavations

          I’m typing with my toes

  • Phil

    People seem to forget that in all aspects of life there are different payouts which are dependent on the assumed risk. If you want to fly across the country for $50, the plane will not be as safe. If you want a country where there is freedom and privacy, it has the potential to be less safe. However, affording everyone the same rights and privileges seems like it would go a long way to winning the hearts and minds of all “anti-American” individuals.

    • notafeminista

      I can assure you, that while my evidence is anecdotal, people would rather have the security rather than the freedom.

      • Anonymous

        Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

        Ben Franklin.

        • notafeminista

          Precisely.  And yet the Left screams for more security every day.  I don’t see one Lefty on this board every advocating for actual liberty.  Ever.  But as I said….my evidence is purely anecdotal.

          • Anonymous

             How convenient of you to forget the endless condemnation the Bush administration received, on an almost daily basis, for it’s extra-legal abuse of power. You know. Warantless eavesdropping on the phone calls of American citizens. Summary arrests of Americans who were then  deemed “enemy combatants” in order to avoid the need to deal with that due process foolishness. Strong arming Google and Yahoo to make  my internet  search history available to law enforcement on demand.       Whatever one might feel about the ethical validity of these practices and the effect they had on our freedom, to imply that the “lefties” of this country didn’t raise a hue and cry over them is factually incorrect drivel. It certainly wasn’t conservatives.  Maybe you just forgot?

          • notafeminista

            I forget nothing, including the fact that the hero of the abolitionists Abraham Lincoln did exactly the 19th c. equivalent of what you just described and was applauded for it in the name of saving the Union.  I’m not the forgetful one.

          • Anonymous

            As usual, you completely miss the point of a comment made in plain English. I’m not addressing the validity of these actions. I don’t even care what you think of them.    “The left screams for security every day.”    “I don’t see one Lefty on this board ever advocating for actual liberty.Ever.”             “People would rather have the security than the freedom.” By some strange reasoning, I guess you consider all those people advocating for actual liberty during the Bush years to be some kind of Orwellian Non-people.

          • notafeminista

            But you are addressing the validity of those actions (or lack thereof) or you would not have so quickly invoked the former President Bush.  You did not count on a prompt and accurate comparison from one so…illogical as myself…no?

          • Anonymous

             I invoked Bush because Bush was the president under whom these practices were carried out. Who would you suggest I invoke, Mr. Spock? And, to paraphrase one of your favorite bits of tripe, “you’ve not addressed the issue.”That issue would be your goofy claim that liberals who were outraged by Bush’s  trampling of our freedoms weren’t concerned about Bush’s trampling of our freedoms. Sorry dear, even for you, that’s just plain stupid. And yes logical thinking is the last thing I’d expect from you. stupid.

          • notafeminista

            No, I consider them to be intellectually dishonest.  

          • Anonymous

             Of course you do. America, Land of the Free,  in which no one really cares about freedom. You are a pitiful human being.

          • Anonymous

            The party of big government?
            I’m not in the Democratic party, and I don’t like them much as they are a pretty spineless bunch. The GOP, on the other hand is full of nut cases and has been taken over by the extremist, my evidence is purely anecdotal though. But I see a lot of on this forum, such as the wanker how spends all day posting here.

        • Modavations

          The Party of Big Govt.bemoans Big Brother.Rabid one,they go hand and hand

  • Samuraent

    NY is obviously violating our rights, they have a proven track record of violating rights. Despite this no one will be held responsible right? and therefore they and others will continue to do things like this. Honestly if we are not going to hold people responsible for these obvious violations then why even discuss it. no one is ever held responsible for cointelpro or any programs where americans rights are violated so there is no deterent for law enforcement types. they will always error on the side of trampling peoples rights because we do not put people in jail, take their jobs and pensions, and fine them– we do it to single moms writing fraudulent checks but not law enforcement officials that violate the rights of thousands.

  • Anonymous

    Actually, PaulCJr, “60 Minutes” once had a story about how New York City has created its own CIA and even has overseas offices. If you lived in NYC on 9/11, would you trust the feds to protect you? The World Trade Center was attacked twice, and the feds did nothing to anticipate the attacks or warn the people either time. NYC is traumatized and only trusts itself to stay safe, just like the Jews who survived the Holocaust. You’re not paranoid when people really are trying to kill you.

  • H. NYC

    As soon as the next terrorist attack occurs in NYC and it happens to be Islamic radicals, any argument against surveillance of the Muslim community in NYC will fall on deaf ears entirely.  NO ONE will question it.  At best, we should be vigilant about that surveillance, but not that it should not be done.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=763641254 Larry Slater

    First point: “Bernard” who called in around 10:40 a.m.  is completely off his head! Aggressively Muslim terrorists had destroyed 3 planes, 2 massive office towers & a corner of the Pentagon.
    THEREFORE, keeping a greater watch on radical Muslim leaders or organizations within THIS country was, at least in the beginning, simple common sense & preventive protection. Let’s remember that several of the plane-hijacking terrorists had been in the U.S. without or beyond the effectiveness of their visas, & camped out near crop dusting training fields specifically to learn how to fly larger planes into targets to destroy them & kill civilians.

    And, frankly, this bloody nonsense of equating Kristalnacht with American observation of Muslim groups SHOULD HAVE been pointed out as exactly that (bloody nonsense) by any RESPONSIBLE show host/moderator. There is absolutely NO similarity between the two events. Kristalnacht was only the first in a series of far worse actions that led to the arrest & murder of at minimum 6 million people.

    Let’s quite trying to be so inanely P.C. & TRY to remember the terror, death, anguish, etc. that took place on and took hold after 9/11/01.

    • Isaac Bresnick

      I was in high school at the time, and even I was level-headed enough to recognize that nineteen foreigners didn’t represent American muslims.

      • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

        How many Muslim’s spoke out against the attack? There was virtual silence from that community. And many expressed outright joy at the sight of the towers falling….were you level headed enough to remember that fact too?

        • Modavations

          yOU’RE SPEAKING SENSE TODAY.i’M IMPRESSED

          • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

            BTW, you CAPS key is on. haha

          • Modavations

            just sloth,i speak 4 languages

          • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

            pig latin does not count.

          • Modavations

            French(8 years in the public schools and B.C),Spanish 42 years in Mexico,English(some would say debateable),Italian(io sono italiano) and Pig Latin.I guess that’s five and I can do it with stuck caps any day.By the way, I can get score some gear in German to boot.I can score a chick in Zulu and Xhosa.

          • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

            Cant help you with women, I am gay.

          • Modavations

            Thatexplainsthe perpetual Hissy Fit

          • Modavations

            sorry,didn’t mean it

        • Isaac Bresnick

          Silence? The Saudi Government took out ads on TV. Op-Ed’s were written in every newspaper in America. There was only silence if you were plugging your ears, and there was only joy if you went looking for it.

          • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

            Dream on with your propaganda.

        • nj_v2

          JasonA sputtered, “How many Muslim’s spoke out against the attack? There was virtual silence from that community.”

          As if JasonA’s ignorance of something means it didn’t happen.

          • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

            More nonsense from your ilk. Just as people of your ilk…restort to adolescent name calling. Just another tween on mommy’s PC… Is that what is taught to people of your ilk??

          • Anonymous

            Now, now. Let’s not overuse your new word of the day.

          • Anonymous

            More pointless dribble from the mindless right.

          • Modavations

            pointless dribble,mindless right.Make a point Rabid one.How old are you?

          • Anonymous

            My point is that the comment was meaningless dribble. 
            You really do have comprehension issues. Also, how is that you have the nerve to ask anyone about what point they are making when you never seem to make any. All you seem to post are diatribes. 

        • Anonymous

           Google “Muslim condemnation of 9/11.” Then feel free to ignore what you refuse to comprehend.

          • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

            Base your world on Google I see…that explains it all…. Your mind is mush, simply a BOT.

          • Anonymous

             Google is a tool, idiot. From it we can access a wealth of information, covering any topic imaginable. If we have a brain, as some of us do, we can make judgements as to the value of that information. Some of it’s accurate. Some of it’s biased. Some of it’s reasonable. Some of its sensationalist dreck. I can see how those without a functioning brain, such as yourself, would have a difficult time mastering the frightening difficulty of searching for information. But then, you don’t really want information, do you? 

          • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

            You recommended Google, idiot…I did not. Then you proceed to contradict yourself as you negate the value of your own recommendations. Laugable.

          • Anonymous

             Can you read, or are you just guessing at the bigger words?

          • Anonymous

             Can you read, or are you just guessing at the bigger words?

    • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

      Well said. The disease of PC infects most people in the US…sadly. Much of what was said on the show is propaganda. Look at what the peace loving Muslims are doing in England and France. It will provide a glimpse of the future of how it will be in the US…once the number of Muslims becomes large enough. That is reality, not the dream world of PC which is so prevalent in the US, and casually discussed on today’s show.

      • nj_v2

        In JasonA’s world, basic civil and human rights are dismissed as “PC” overreaction.

        Did anyone see JasonA and his ilk clamoring for similar surveillance of fundamentalist Christians when doctors who performed abortions were being targeted and harassed?

        • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

          What BS you type. Assign false comments never made to prove your point. Sorry pal, you only prove that you are an idiot…quite like those of your “ilk”…what a dumb word.

  • Modavations

    I watched the guys cut off Danny Pearls head.It wasn’t so much the beheading.It was his scream mingled with Allah Akbar

  • Anonymous

    Yes, the NYPD could certainly do more to prevent pedophilia in the Catholic church and other Christian churches. Certainly there should be arrests and convictions where appropriate.

    • Anonymous

      They could do more, but they don’t. Quite a different standard from the reaction to “Islamic” evil, wouldn’t you say? Over many decades, Catholic priests have sexually molested thousands of young children, far more than the number of Americans lost to terrorism. In many, if not most instances, the church itself has played a significant role in covering up this abuse. Yet, by merely mentioning these things, I’m engaging in a “WAR ON RELIGION.” Isn’t Islam a religion? I guess the actions of some crazy Muslims justifies a “War on Islam,” but the evil actions of the most Catholic of Catholics warrants no such “War on Catholicism.”

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

    Americans have nothing to fear. Islam is a religion of peace. Just ask the 4 Americans killed in Afganistan this past week.

  • Sylvia

    It seems to me that what is missing is to reach out to, educate about, and inform ourselves of the differences and commonalities between people. We are more alike than we are different, and as humans all capable of incredible acts of horror, and kindness given the right circumstances.  

    History tells us that to automatically jump to fear mongering, suspicion, and preemptive violence, as a response to the violent acts of the relative few, only creates more hatred tension and violence. We must evolve and tame the beast inside ourselves that wants to prejudge, and lash out when threatened or attacked. 

    • Special K

       Our “beasts” need to protect themselves against “real beasts”.

  • Anonymous

    There’s plenty of intolerance on both sides of the debate. We’re a polarized nation of extremes running both political parties and it’s disgusting.

    • nj_v2

      How can people make statements like, “We’re a polarized nation of extremes running both political parties…”?

      The current “extremes” are the center-right, corporate Democrats, and the bat-shit-crazy, way-right corporate  Republicans.

      • Modavations

        Hey Maria,are you starting to feel the posters are quarantined at McCleans(Boston asylum).Welcome!!!Wait to you see Freak Show TerryTT.

  • Special K

    Until the objects of NYPD’s warranted attention are
    identified primarily with thoughts and actions benign keeping them under surveillance(sic) makes very good sense and should be part of any such model NYPD and other law enforcement agencies might design.

    If Muslim complainants, NJ’s ACLU and their other supporters are intent on casting blame, they should consider placing it
    properly on the late, unlamented bin Laden, al Queda, jihadists, the murderer at Fort Hood, would-be underwear bombers, would-be car-bomber in Manhattan, murder-by-suicide bombers everywhere in the world, Afghanistan, Iran, Syria, Egypt, Libya, Hamas and other such entities too numerous too mention, who bear full responsibility for giving  “Muslim(s)” a bad name..

    Wrongly tarred bearers of that name should become
    resigned to the likelihood that the tar they share wrongly albeit not illogically with evil-doers similarly named won’t go away until, mirabile dictu, one distant morning daily news reports have no new accounts of Muslim-related depredations to convey.

    Until then, protests against being wrongly tarred by that brush will only result in calling additional unfavorable attention to the name they share with those properly tarred, i.e.,  their similarly named, quite evil counterparts who have committed and continue to commit acts too heinous to mention–defense against which requires, inter al., close defensive surveillance in the U. S. A. (and officials
    who don’t quibble re jurisdiction–something characteristic of the CIA, FBI and other agencies concerned with national security pre-9/11, to our collective sorrow..

  • Anonymous

           When people make the statement, “Everything changed on 9/11,” what they’re really saying is, “Al Qaeda’s in charge now” or “Bin Laden’s the boss.” As a nation, we turned into a bunch of simpering whimps. We decided to let our domestic security policies be dictated by the actions of religious lunatics, rather than by the principles of freedom we supposedly hold dear. We could have stood strong. We could have puffed out our chests like we’d been doing since the end of World War II and been what we like to pretend we are. Instead, like a nation full of pant-wetters, we chose a dubious new “security” over freedom.          The worst transgressors were the tough guys. You know them. The real he-men who insisted to the rest of the world that America was the greatest experiment in “Freedom” the world has ever known. Wars, both  justified and  ridiculous, were fought to preserve those freedoms. Hundreds of thousands of Americans died to protect those freedoms. In response to 9/11, some of these tough guys decided it was advisable to dump these freedoms for which so many had died, in favor of “security.” What followed? The anti-American Patriot Act. Warantless wiretapping. Unlawful arrest and incarceration. All in the name of security, freedom be damned. If called out on these  policies, the response of these frightened cry-babies was “We must take these measures in order to preserve our freedom and our very way of life.” Talk about oxymoronic thinking.  Let’s dump our freedoms in order to save our freedoms. But what can we expect from a bunch of cowards who decided to let Bin Laden be the boss?              Anytime an American citizen advocates the concept of group responsibility for individual acts, and supports law enforcement’s singling out of these groups, that American needs a lesson in what America is supposed to be. People who support the concept of individual responsibility and would then lay blame for an individual’s acts on any group are guilty of confused thinking. It would be ridiculous of me to suggest that, because a bunch of Catholic priests are child molesters, law enforcement should launch undercover investigations of the Catholic Church. Wouldn’t it?          

    • Modavations

      Where you been.There have been prosecutions up the yin yang.100′s of millions in legal penalties have been paid.I’ll bet the breakdoewn of Rep.to Dem.priests would be 100% Dermocrat.Just another species of social worker.

      • Anonymous

         So do you support things like wire-tapping of the Catholic church, undercover operations, and propaganda videos to let the NYPD know of their evil deeds?

        • Modavations

          With cause,you bet ya.I’d bug the DNC.There’s the real danger to the State

          • Anonymous

             What constitutes cause?

          • Modavations

            Burp

          • Anonymous

             Sorry. I thought I might get you to think for a change. What could I have been thinking?

          • Anonymous

            Thinking? This guy thinks that space in between his ears is for hanging hats.

          • Modavations

            spece between his ears,hanging hats.Wipe your mouth please,you’re foaming.Watch your Birkenstocks,foam stains are permanent

          • Anonymous

            I rest my case.
             

          • Anonymous

            You show your real colors buddy.
            Intolerant, ignorant and a bored malcontent.

          • Modavations

            real colors,intolerant,ignorant,bored malcontent.Is there a point or are you,as usual,just foaming at the mouth.Are you in Boston,I know a pathologist who’d love to study a Rabid Human

          • Anonymous

            Ahh, poor baby. Can’t take a few insults.
            You can dish them out though. You’re pretty pathetic and seem to have the mental age of a 5th or 6th grader.  

          • Modavations

            poor baby,pathetic,mental age 5th grader.My friend this is day in and day out with you.I find you a failed man who is in a fetal position with your “Blanky”over your head.You witness your world view dissolve and melt down

      • Anonymous

         More appropriately, do you condemn all of Catholicism because of the acts of a few thousand priests and the hierarchy that protected them?

    • Hidan

      Right on.

  • Anonymous

    Isaac Bresnick, here’s your citation for the blind imam convicted for the first WTC bombing, which killed one man:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Abdel-Rahman 

    He got life in prison. He’s also referred to as “the blind sheikh.”

    • Isaac Bresnick

      Ah, so you’re talking about the 1993 bombing, not the 2001 attack? My mistake; I thought you were saying something else.

      • Modavations

        Dude,they set one off in the food market in Jaipur last year.60 dead and tons injured.My pals heard it one mile away.Mumbai was last year.Putin said they just tried at grease him yesterday.Young lady,give it up.A political idealogue is the same as a religious fanatic.TerryTT,Trfx,Jefe68,NJ,Mean Streets Raymundo and the assorted B teamers, are all of the same stripe.

        • Ray in VT

          I’d rather be a “b-teamer” than ride the short bus with a incompetant ideologue like you.

      • Anonymous

        You seemed unaware of the fact that there were TWO attacks on the WTC, and a blind imam/sheikh, a religious teacher in a mosque, was responsible for one of them.

  • Anonymous

    Isaac Bresnick, apparently there have been multiple Muslim leaders of Islamic charities who have been charged with funneling money to al-Qaeda. I’ll start with the Chicago Muslim leader of an Islamic charity arrested for funneling $$ to al-Qaeda:

    http://www.nytimes.com/keyword/benevolence-international-foundation 

    There are many others. I’ll take one at a time.

    • Isaac Bresnick

      Benevolence International Foundation: a Saudi Arabian organization.

      • Anonymous

        Isaac Bresnick, Saudis are Wahhabi Muslims and most of the 9/11 attackers were Saudis. And your point is . . . ??

  • Anonymous

    Isaac Bresnick, another source on Muslim-American terrorist funding and pursuit of jihad:

    http://www.jweekly.com/article/full/41248/take-care-when-cair-is-quoted-as-a-reliable-source/ 

    Too many to cite, but I’ll try to find a few more.

  • Anonymous

    Way too scary, but here it is, Isaac:

    http://surrenderingislam.com/surrendering-islam/wahhabi-lobby 

    If I were my Irish great-grandmother, I’d say, “May the saints preserve us.”

    • Isaac Bresnick

      Not going to click that link; do you have a source that doesn’t come from “SurrenderingIslam.com?”

      • Modavations

        one excuse after another.You’ll be right at home in Limosine Liberal LansdJust back from a run on the Charles River,in my shorts.I love Global Warming

      • Hidan

        Just another hate group website promoted by the likes of Pam Geller

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Charley-Wooley/741206578 Charley Wooley

    not all muslims are bad… in fact the majority of them are very good people.
    But unfortunately due to the actions of a few muslims, they as a whole are more likely to fly a plane into a skyscraper than any other group.
    And now their rights to privacy are dwindling away?
    I’m actually all for profiling in airports, as my grandma is a whole lot less likely to be a terrorist than a middle aged muslim male. 
    But this has just gone too far.

  • Susan

    I think we should do whatever we need to do, and what we should have been doing 12 years ago.  If more surveillance was being conducted, my husband would still be alive, and my children would have a father.

    • Anonymous

      I am so sorry, Susan. Such a devastating loss.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

    Why only Mosque? There are a lot of organization out there that catered to violence. Do the US government knows that muslims are not stupid not to know that they have spies in the Mosque. of course they know they are being watch.

    • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

      Because virtually all of the terrorists in the past 12 years have been Muslims. Very simple.

      • Azfara

         This is not correct, please read or listen something other then FOX news.

        • Anonymous

           Don’t waste your time, my friend. JasonA considers evidence that disproves his simpletons worldview to be propaganda.

          • Modavations

            Simpletons!!!.This is why I would rather not entertain your mental masturbations.

          • Anonymous

             You misspelled your handle in that last sentence. Or did you?

          • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

            It is INDEED propaganda…designed to be consumed by fools..and in your case it works.

          • Anonymous

             Thank you for reiterating what I just said.

          • Modavations

            Prove him wrong!!!

          • Anonymous

            Read my comment again, Dumbo.

          • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

            I did and it was nonsense.

          • Anonymous

             Another brainiac who responds to the term, Dumbo.

          • Modavations

            Brianiac,

          • Modavations

            Dumbo.How old are you

        • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

          Then prove me wrong!

        • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

          Still waiting for your non-existent proof.

      • http://twitter.com/DeucePrez Deuce Prez

        Not very good use of sarcasm, but that’s exactly what your statement was.

        Right?

  • Modavations

    Don’t worry,don’t worry,we’ll soon leave the middle east.The President has discovered Algae power.Pond scum powered cars will soon eclipse the the Volt.By the way,Pres.Obama has increased the subsidy to $10,000.00.The only people who’ll take them are folks with guns to their heads

  • Azfar

    If 911 is excuse then not one of them were from NY, and they flew in planes. How NYPD profiling Muslims can prevent any of that. If FBI do it it may make some sense.  But as our history suggest things go south pretty fast.

  • Dragtl

    No American muslim was involved in 9/11, why are we profiling them?
    Timothy McVeigh was a radical christen identity adherent and yet, we didn’t profile and spy on all christians, is there a difference?

    • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

      Yes, there is a difference. If it has to be explained to you, then the effort if pointless.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TOE5U4TBAHK4KR2ZNYEWYAFHP4 Christy

      possible sleeper cells

  • Modavations

    I’m noticing you guys with the heavy duty,daily invective are Gays.Is this a trait,or are you guys anomolies?

    • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

      Do you have a problem with gay people?

      • Modavations

        Absolutely not,I think.But N.J an A-team offender,says he’s also gay.As for the  other prime offenders Je ne sais pas,mais je veut savoir.Peut-etre une tendance,une direction

        • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

          Votre français n’est pas bon, désolé.

          There are a lot more gay people in the world than older folks like you realize….

          • Modavations

            Digame que quieres decir.Vous etes un sot monsieur.Quand il y a un homme disant  ” je veux un execution sans le jugement,tu es un sot.

          • Anonymous

            You’re getting your Spanish and French mixed up, Modavations. I know because I do the same, only my sentences come out as part Spanish, part French, and part Latin. Don’t learn any more Romance languages, it’ll only confuse you (and me).

          • Modavations

            I speak em all.

          • Modavations

            It was intentional Silly.You’ll learn

  • Modavations

    Pres.Obama we need help,not kelp.Me acabo,buenas noches

    • Ray in VT

      Against alternative forms of energy production still?  Do you ever get tired of being on the wrong side of history?  How are your whale oil lamps working these days?

  • Pissed Off Darshan

    #1 reason for hostilities with the Muslim world is “Israel”
     
    David Cohen and Michael Bloomberg have declared their support and love for Israel, and they are calling the shots on this well orchastraded scare Americans and force everybody into submission campaign.  David Cohen’s relatives even live in Tel-Aviv.
     
    Enough is enough

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=705687465 Garrett T Garrett

      israel has too much say in American goals and future. – and dont point any fingers at me and call me names that tactic wont work im american with israeli family- this is a free country and i shouldnt be attacked by mossud for disagreeing with POLITICS.

    • Anonymous

      Really? Then why did they attack the World Trade Center and not a large target in Israel? 
      If Israel did not exist do you really think this would not have happened? Do you understand the nature of the kind of extremism that al-Qaeda represents?

      • http://twitter.com/DeucePrez Deuce Prez

        Who is the “they” in your question?

    • Anonymous

      Sounds anti-semitic to me, Pissed Off Darshan.

      • Pissed Off Darshan

        who cares, facts are facts.

        I am jewish, myself.  It is just not fair to the Arabs.

      • http://twitter.com/DeucePrez Deuce Prez

        And that’s what you get for ASSuming!  No one can be critical of the misdeeds of Israel without being misbranded as antisemitic…..!

  • Flapjacks

    Since 9/11 there is major trend in terror: Jihad.
    The US State Department lists 120 groups as Terror sponsors, including antique non active groups like the IRA, Ulster Defense Group, Red Brigade, 17Nov, and the ANC. Most of these have been inactive for over a decade. However all the active and newest groups are militant Islam– over 95%.
    Scotland Yard divides Terror Organizations into Domestic and International. The International Groups number 45. All but three are Islamist.
    The IRA renounced violence in the aftermath of 9/11. Basque separatist have severely curtailed their operations, occasionally setting off a firecracker in a parked car at an airport garage. They warn authorities since they don’t want anyone hurt.
    2% of the world population is schizophrenic. Only a small minority have a violent streak, but they do things like assassinations and shooting sprees that are NOT terror, much like the Belgian Algerian Drug dealer gunman, Nordine Amrani, who went on a rampage with grenades and shooting in Liege.
    Famous schizoprhenic gunman include Mark Chapman( John Lennon), John Hinkley(President Reagan), and Tucson gunman Jared Lee Loughner( Rep. Gabriele Giffords) and Anders Behring Breivik(Norway rampage). These men are documented schizophrenics and are in custody in a mental asylum. You can visit them and play paddy-cake if you please–but they are CERTIFIABLY INSANE.
    The mentally ill will always be with us. And are always statistical threats to themselves or others…but it is very low.
    The difference between mentally ill killing sprees and Terrorism is the difference between a random murder and mafia killings.
    Terror is using violence for political coercion. Trying to win converts. Overthrow a government. Establish a theocracy.
    Terrorist perpetrators are no more ‘mad’ than the typical mafia conspirator. And they have an aim of Jihad to set the world on fire. Watch Ossama bin Ladin’s video speeches.
    The first rule of survival, is to realize an existential threat when you see it, whether you are a Muslim or not. No one wants to die a violent death and become pulverized into cat food chunks.
    Ironically over 90% of Terror victims are Muslims. And Muslim Sectarian genocide in Syria, Iraq, Lebanon and Libya are ramping up Muslim deaths.
    Not all Muslims are Terrorists.But today, all Terrorists are Muslim.
    The TSA automatically categorizes travelers as high risk needing additional screening from North Korea, Cuba, Iran, Sudan, Syria, Afghanistan, Algeria, Lebanon, Libya, Iraq, Nigeria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Somalia and Yemen.
    Cuba and North Korea are included in the list but in reality are not risks since they do not allow their citizens to travel because of their risk of fleeing, not terrorism. Otherwise all these nations are Muslim or Arab or both.
    Therefore simple common sense screening is racial profiling and targeting Muslims. It is the unsaid TSA Security policy endorsed by the Obama Administration. And in the absence of any hijacking or terror deaths since 9/11, it is remarkably effective.
    If you were in charge of boarding 500 passengers with 1500 pieces of luggage in 45 minutes for an international flight and had only 10 agents, then you cannot inspect every cell phone or toothpaste tube. And you know there is a high probability of at least one bomber targeting this flight: You must to be selective and pragmatic. And realistic and effective. It is life and death.
    But also the plane MUST leave on time. Passengers have to make connections. Equipment must get moving. Take off slots are small. But we cannot spend a year boarding a single flight.
    Yes, we can ignore more than 95% of travelers and still be safe! Reality is what it is. Racial profiling for Risk Works. Everyone wants to fly safely and arrive intact. Even Muslims know this and they also do not want to become part of a victim list.
    If your existential survival is on the line, demand effective and smart screening versus a ‘fair and equal’ search that preserves citizen rights. The first human right is that of not being killed violently.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/04/us/04webtsa.html?pagewanted=all

    • Flapjacks

      Know that in the past 10 years SINCE 9/11, there has been no deaths or hijackings in America.  The NYPD is part of the success.   IT IS WORKING.   Let them continue.

      Imagine after 5 successful mega terrorist Al Qaeda attacks in America in one week;  then every single American will DEMAND a no fly Muslim Policy…even fellow Muslims.  

      Prevention is better than being sorry and empty apologies.   Hardest thing for leaders is to apologize to the family of victims on why they died.  Why did they do not do more surveillance and  prevention?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=705687465 Garrett T Garrett

        look if you put a camera in every living room im sure you’ll get most of the terrorist. but they won by your terror.. and you have a camera in every living room. i urge you to take some professional courses on terrorism.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=705687465 Garrett T Garrett

          the battle agaisnt terrorism is a see-saw between freedom and security and the people must keep its balance.

        • Anonymous

          Garrett T Garrett, that’s a reductio ad absurdum argument. We don’t have to put a camera in every living room to stop terrorism. We merely needed to stop denying the reality of terrorism and step up our game.

          • Anonymous

             Denying the reality of terrorism? Terrorism has become one of the most oft used words in the English language. Apparently, there’s an Islamic terrorist under every stone and behind every bush. And, if stepping up our game means finding yet another entire minority group to vilify because of the actions of a few, no thanks. I’ll takes me chances.

          • Modavations

            The real enemy is the Democrat party.The Dependence Party.The destoyers of the American Black

          • http://twitter.com/DeucePrez Deuce Prez

            You just posted one hellava nonsensical comment.

            Care to explain yourself, buddy….?

          • Anonymous

             Please don’t waste your time with this one. As I’m sure you’ll see, there is no explanation.

          • http://twitter.com/DeucePrez Deuce Prez

            As an FYI, my question was merely rhetorical.  I expect no logical explanation.

          • http://twitter.com/DeucePrez Deuce Prez

            Funny part is, no one’s “denying that there’s terrorism”!  If you had that “camera in every living room”, you’d be surprised to learn that (according to the FBI stats) most of the domestic terrorists in the US DON’T practice Islam, but look like you, Maria.

      • Victoria

        Thank you for saying what I feel !

        • http://twitter.com/DeucePrez Deuce Prez

          I’m sure it’s no surprise that you’re not the only one that’s an idiot!

          Imagine Muslim Americans advocating a no-fly Muslim policy.  How would any Muslim travel around the country (over 500 miles) or overseas (ever heard of the word “hajj”)?

          That has as much a chance of happening as a snowball’s chance in hell.  Don’t hold your breath.  I wouldn’t want to see you die of suffocation over something impossible.

    • Anonymous

      In the ten years since 9/11 more than 160,000 Americans have been murdered in this country. Without even bothering to check the statistic, I feel quite comfortable stating that most of them were not killed by American Muslims. They were murdered by people like “us.” You know what I mean. Not like “them.” Given the fact that the U.S. has what is easily a higher rate of murder, and violent crime in general, than any other developed country in the world, and higher even than some not so well developed countries, it would seem that we’d be better off concerning ourselves with the people who are actually killing us, rather than a bunch of American Muslims who aren’t killing anyone. The score is, red blooded Americans 160,000, American Muslim terrorists ZERO, over the past ten years. When I hear someone advocate for an absolute police state, designed to protect us from the real perpetrators of violence against America’s people, then I’ll pay attention.

      • Mgcareuthers

        Get a real life! Get off your mommy’s couch, join the military and get some skin in the game! Try living your life in the muslim world. I don’t know but I am sure you’d be a “head” shorter. Like our murdered military advisors, murdered because some twit burned a book? Does that even make you think we’re dealing with rational beings? For my peace of mind; a little “gun-boat” diplomacy goes a long way. I would welcome government scrutiny of any of my activities; they’d just get bored. You have qualms? What exactly are you doing that you don’t want known found out?

        • Anonymous

          Ahh. Another of America’s great minds heard from. What exactly don’t you understand about the distinction between American Muslims and Muslim terrorists. And, if you welcome government scrutiny of your private life, try Cuba. Maybe China. I hear good things about China’s prospects. That might be nice. Russia could be good, although I’m sure you would have been much happier there under the Soviets. They had some real good ideas on government intrusion.

          • http://twitter.com/DeucePrez Deuce Prez

            Yeah….China’s just “great”.

            I have a Chinese foreign exchange student staying with my family and China doesn’t allow them to have Facebook pages (freedom of expression).

        • Anonymous

          Intolerance is not a good attribute.
          Get off your mommy’s couch? Get some skin in the game? What kind of rhetoric is this?
          I don’t want government in all my business 24/7, thank you very much.

          • Anonymous

            Like too many other feeble minded idiots who have posted comments today, this dope has decided that all Muslims are terrorists. Even his own fellow citizens. If he was alive during WWII, he would have hated German Americans, for surely they were all Nazis. I’m sure he thinks sending hundreds of thousands of American citizens off to “detention” camps during that same war was a perfectly reasonable thing to do. What the Hell, if they behaved themselves and took their loyalty oaths, which no other Americans were compelled to take, they’d get out in a few years, free to try to rebuild their lives. What’s the big deal?

        • http://twitter.com/DeucePrez Deuce Prez

          I’m almost there with you on the surveillance thing.  They’d be just laying in wait for me to say or do something wrong.

          Not only would that not happen, they would run a “risk” of taking their shahadah after learning the truth about Islam with that exposure!

      • Modavations

        Lot a hate kid,Lot’s of invective day in and day out.Of course invective is a sign that you have a shaky argument.When I hear Dumbo,dope,fool,idiot and on and on,I have trouble paying you mind.Frankly,you are a boorish,bully.Are you gay,ie Jason A and NJ

        • Ray in VT

          Why, are you looking for a date?  Also, it’s pretty rich to read you writing someone off for name calling.

        • Anonymous

           Let’s not forget Doofus, Dink and Bonehead. Anyway, you keep stating that you’re through with my foolishness, yet you keep coming back. Do you have a crush on me? How sweet.

          • Ray in VT

            I think that you may have an admirer….

          • Modavations

            Doofus was a term used by geeks thirty years ago.Dink was used by Nerds 30 years ago,or was a term for Viet Cong used by real men.I can fix you up with TerryTT,I’m involved

          • Anonymous

             Come on Bonehead. Quit beating around the bush. If you want a date, you must ask first.

      • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

        Bombastic nonsense unrelated to the issue of Muslims.

        • Anonymous

           If you look real closely, you’ll see that the word Muslim appears three times. Since, as I suspected, your reading skills are minimal, maybe you can get someone to read those bigger words for you.

  • Pissed Off Darshan

    Why don’t they investigate
    Dominik Suter and Urban Moving Systems

    http://www.HumanGenome.org/fbi

  • Kitydogdoc

    I cannot believe that the police and mayor in New York city are so bold and power hungry. Michael Bloomberg reminds me of the Senegalese president, Syria’s Assad etc etc. There is no democracy in a city that spies on a community. it is China in NYC

    • Modavations

      How ’bout a mayor who breaks his term limit pledge

  • Adreana Langston

    If I had a choice between having fewer freedoms and having a greater chance of dying a violent death before age 80, I will ALWAYS take having a greater chance of dying a violent death before age 80.

    I live in Southern California.  I’ve lived through many earthquakes.  I could have been crushed to death many times.  But I enjoy the freedom of being able to go to the beach in on a warm sunny day in January of February.

    In the same way, I would gladly have the Patriot Act revoked and these surveillance programs ended even if it meant that I personally, or someone I love, would have a greater chance of dying in a terrorist attack.

  • Adreana Langston

    So here is my question.  The United States successfully fought a multi-year war against a home grown terrorist group.  The group was called the Ku Klux Klan.  They wanted to destroy the United States by destroying the Constitution and creating a class system that disregarded equality before the law, inalieable rights for every citizen, etc.  This successful war was fought against the Klan WITHOUT the Patriot Act or hiding out in the Baptist Churches in the South and spying on congregants.  So why do we need these tactics now?

    • Anonymous

      The Klan accepted members who looked like anybody and operated in secret locations that only Klan members would know about. Islamo-fascist mentors have been known to radicalize Muslim youth in mosques. 

      • Modavations

        Robert Byrd.Patron saint of the Dems.

      • http://twitter.com/DeucePrez Deuce Prez

         Mariasbeenconned:

        Please speak in known English terms and leave the Islamaphobic verbiage at the door. What the hell is “Islamo-fascist”?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=705687465 Garrett T Garrett

    something you need to understand about Law enforcement- its a magnet to people who want to play “soldier”. they buy all this not needed gear and so on… so when a chance to play soldier against something that is a current soldier’s threat- they jump all over it. and even more, NYC is just a city- anyone that lives there knows that nypd oversteps and even acts like its own country. terrorism runs the gamut- you have radical religious, cult,environmentalists, political, lone- radical islam is so big because 9/11 ( or thats who they say did it), they’re israel’s enemy, and its a religious die for it mentality- but anyone trained on terrorism would say that political terrorism is even bigger,statistically and historically,more suicide attacks. and terrorist come in every shade- did you know there are puerto rican nationalist terrorist? nypd are poorly trained when it comes to this- some guy who was on the force for years- takes a week class and suddenly hes an expert. furthermore, they use 911 as an excuse for everything. YOU ARE CITY COPS, there is no reason you need tactical air strikes and humvees. this dellusion is further hyped by all these dramatic movies comming out. its really out of control. im not talking out of school here.ive walked many a’ hostile lands. anyone who is praising and saying “great job’ skipped 8th grade social studies. first lesson of counter terrorism studies- terrorism 101- terrorism is a subjective and derogatory in nature. even minor crimes and personal views fall under the definition. itsYou +1′d this publicly. Undo     You +1′d this publicly. UndoBelligerent manchildren, px rangers, and wannabe jack bauers- just so they can sit with that ” been around the block’ attitude at FOP meetings.

  • Jhays

     David Cohen was able to convince NYPD to carry out tasks that only the Federal Government was authorized perform. He convinced the NYPD to convert their ‘intelligence unit’ pre 911 organization, to a post 911 organization designed for surveillance along the lines of a domestic intelligence service.

    The guest who commented on this, with consideration to oversight, being that only the federal government police agencies have judicial oversight to investigate groups for political and religious reason was correct.

    Eventual indictments forthcoming for constitutional civil rights violations will eventually tell the full story.

     

    • Anonymous

      Jhays, the feds did NOTHING, despite many warnings from other countries and chatter that they knew about, to warn NYC or to prevent terrorism from striking the WTC twice.

      NYC made up its mind to protect NYC with its own resources. It’s not paranoid to think that people are trying to kill you if they actually kill your family, friends, coworkers, and rescue personnel in downtown NYC.

      • Modavations

        Just wait till you meet Freak Show TerryTT,you ain ‘t seen nothing yet

  • Firstfossilish

    An overlooked facet may be that many in New York do not believe that the rest of the country  really care what happens to New York and New York, therefore, must fend for itself. Remember the headline Ford to City: “Drop dead”! Just a thought.

  • Jbostrom

    Ashbrook is doing the issue no good with the simplistic quantification of “How much is too much?” and his ill-defined “line.”. It’s about quality, not quantity. Dumbed-down catchphrases only muddy the issue and encourage emotionalism.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TOE5U4TBAHK4KR2ZNYEWYAFHP4 Christy

    I don’t see the problem with what the NYPD is doing. Better to be safe than sorry. We know what people are the likely candidates to be terrorists. If the muslims being watched are innocent of any terrorism activities, they have nothing to worry about. I would expect muslims to be understanding of this.

    • Taguba Jones

       Haha. If you are innocent you should be happy we’re spying on you!

      • Anonymous

              Isn’t it amazing how many of these deep thinkers are advocates of Soviet Union style thinking. I had no idea how many communist sympathizers existed in this bunch of tough guys.

        • Ray in VT

          I think that it has been interesting to see how some who generally come down on the side of a small, limited role of government say that they are okay with the activities having been described on the show.

          I know that steps must be taken to head off potential attacks, and I’m not saying that I know where the right line is, but some of the activities and tactics described do make me uneasy.

          • Anonymous

             If we ask all these frightened cry-babies to tell us how many Americans have been killed in this country by American Muslims in the last five, ten, twenty years, they’ll blubber on about law enforcements excellent job of keeping us safe from all these America hatin’ monsters. Imagine, millions of immigrants uprooting their lives to move to a country they hate. What fiendish tricksters.

  • Ray

    Tom: I normally love your show but you did an atrocious job today.  You owe Haroon a full hour, you disrespected him.

  • Mrrphelps

    I am a Ron Paul Republican, and this travesty is exactly what we oppose. The liberty of every citizen is threatened any time the liberty of one is denied.

    Further, the US Constitution claims full authority for all activities overseas. A municipality cannot, under any circumstance, conduct operations on foreign soil. The activity of the NYPD is illegal on its face.

    • Anonymous

      Interesting points. I was also surprised by the NYPD having officers stationed in other countries.
      I’m not sure it’s illegal if it’s part of an investigation that leads to foreign soil, but I would imagine this would come under the FBI’s jurisdiction or the DEA is it was drug related. 

  • Pingback: Police Spying On Mosques

  • Preferstolive

    Two words: Ramzi Yousef.

    • Inasrullah

      Timothy McVeigh

      • Modavations

        Mumbai,Jaipur,Chechnya,The whole Middle East,Egypt,Tibet,Southern Philopenes,Southern Thailand,Indonesia….Ah the Religion of Peace

  • Inasrullah

    No doubt there is a need to know who bad actors are, even the Muslim ones, but the hunt for “bad” Muslims by spying on Americans under the auspices of keeping America safe is a red herring. One only need to focus on the domestic hate groups, gangs in the US, and Mexican drug lords right over the border, and I would argue the terrorism from these groups is more imminent than any attack by Muslims. But we ignore all the hate, death and destruction domestically because it is easier to look for the “other” than recognize your own problems. Recall the Oklahoma City bombing by Timothy McVeigh and the white supremacists groups he belonged to.  I don’t see the FBI spying on Churches.

  • Modavations

    There’s one Muslim I love for sure.Mr.Farakhan, who says too Blacks,you’re not stupid,you’re not inferior,you don’t need no stinkin welfare.Stand Up,Man Up

    • http://twitter.com/DeucePrez Deuce Prez

      Prophet Muhammad (saw) said that over 1,400 years ago (in his last kutbah regarding no superiority of the White over the Black or the Black over the White).

      Now, if Min. Farrakhan would just do away with the Fard/Fraud Muhammad mythos…..

  • Ray

    It is obvious to me that Muslims are not welcome in America and I am not optimistic about that changing any time in the near future.  

    Most Americans purely hate and despise Islam and Muslims, that is painfully obvious.  They cannot name one good Muslim or say a single positive thing about 1.2 billion people on this earth. They are so embroiled in self-pity and frothing-at-the-mouth hate that even 11 years after 9/11, they have no idea why their Empire is detested and are as blood-thirsty for revenge today as they were on 9/12/01.

  • notafeminista

    Replying to feettothefire below (late, to be sure, but returned from a fabulous vacation!):

    Let’s back up one step.  Do you think President Lincoln’s actions during the Civil War (such as the suspension of habeas corpus) were justified or not?

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