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Week In The News: Santorum Surges, China Visit, Iran Tensions

With Anthony Brooks in for Tom Ashbrook.

Santorum surges. Iran, and Israel – tit for tat. China comes calling. Our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

People walk past, a large image of Whitney Houston displayed on the side of the Prudential Center in Newark, N.J., Tuesday, Feb. 14, 2012. (AP)

People walk past, a large image of Whitney Houston displayed on the side of the Prudential Center in Newark, N.J., Tuesday, Feb. 14, 2012. (AP)

In politics this week it was all about a Santorum surge and more doubts about Romney’s ability to excite the party faithful.  And speaking of surges, President Obama’s poll numbers are up as he pushed to raise taxes on the wealthy — again, which Republicans dismissed — again.

Overseas — new signs that Iran is feeling the squeeze of western sanctions.  Syrian cities remained under fire; Greece remained gripped by a debt crisis.  And we lost Pulitzer Price winning journalist Anthony Shadid.

This hour, On Point: our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

-Anthony Brooks

Guests

Trudy Rubin, “Worldview” columnist for the Philadelphia Inquirer.

Reid Wilson, editor-in-chief of National Journal Hotline

Jack Beatty, On Point news analyst.

From The Reading List

Detroit Free Press “Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney said he wouldn’t have let General Motors and Chrysler be liquidated during the financial meltdown of 2008-09, but he also said by intervening in the bankruptcy proceedings, the Obama administration made the solution a political, rather than a legal process.”

Foreign Policy “With Hu’s reign coming to an end, the Chinese people have realized that after Mao Zedong, no Chinese leader has been as hostile to the West as President Hu. Instead of launching political reforms, he tried to use the Chinese model of “crony capitalism” to compete with the Western democratic system. And the state of human rights in China took a huge step backward.”

The New York Times “A string of aggressive gestures by Iran this week — assassination attempts on Israelis living abroad that were attributed to Tehran, renewed posturing over its nuclear program and fresh threats of economic retaliation — suggest that Iranian leaders are responding frantically, and with increasing unpredictability, to the tightening of sanctions by the West. “

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  • Joshua Hendrickson

    If we really want to “solve” the Iranian situation we should elect Santorum post-haste and let him lob a few nukes at Tehran.  Then we can kick back and wait for Jesus to return–which He will, in the form of other nukes, aimed at our deserving butts.

    • Still Here

      We’ll do whatever Israel tells us and we’ll like it; it doesn’t matter who’s in the White House.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        It sure seems that way!
            Regardless of how wrong Israel does anything!

      • aj

        With all the airtime Israeli officials and there dual-citizen treasonous mouthpiece pundits get on MSNBC, answer this.  When is the last time you heard about this incident in the Mainstream Beltway Zionist Punditry (ex. Andrea Mitchell a.k.a. Mrs. Greenspan)?

        The USS Liberty ( A US NAVY SHIP IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS) was attacked by Israeli fighter jets AND Israeli Navy torpedoes 45 years ago.
         
        The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew members (naval officers, seamen, two Marines, and one civilian), wounded 170 crew members.

        —————————–

        —–courtesy of your 1040 tax return (see below)

        * In 2011, Israel received $2.994 billion;

        * In 2012, Israel is estimated to have received $3.075 billion; and

        Obama Requests Largest Amount of Israel Aid Ever
        -National Jewish Democratic Council
         February 14, 2012

        * In 2013, His Excellency BARRY Hussein Obama requested for Israel to receive $3.1 billion—almost HALF OF THE ENTIRE global request for foreign military financing.

        ——-courtesy of your taxes, Uncle Sam can afford to subsidize through the tax code (see below)

        US based organizations are abusing the 501(C)3 section of US tax codes to provide billions in subsidies to hundreds of charities funneling money to ILLEGAL Israeli settlements, often with the names no more creative than “American Friends of name an Israeli settlement.”

        ———————————

    • LarrySummers2012

      So you’re voting Paul then.

      • Joshua Hendrickson

        You’re too funny.

  • TFRX

    On this contraceptive thing, my gosh, it’s so inexpensive. You know, back in my days, they used Bayer Aspirin for contraceptives. The gals put it between their knees and it
    wasn’t that costly.

    Nice to see Foster Freiss has some tired old misogynist crowd-pleasing new schtick to go with his “it’s so inexpensive” shite.

    And that guy was born in 1940. “His day”?

    He was a teen when rock & roll broke, early-mid ’20s when the 60s culturally began (The Beatles’ first success here). Why the ret-con? Why pretend to all of us that the height of youthful rebellion in his day was changing from Rudy Vallee to Benny Goodman on the Atwater-Kent?

    (Nothing against Vallee or the King of Swing.)

    • AC

      what? I don’t even understand this joke? what does aspirin have to do with anything?

      • Newton Whale

        It’s like the Crane technique: if done properly, no can defend.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        If Friese (Sp?) can hold an asprin between his knees, he cannot run a female down to rape her?

      • TFRX

        When asked about the issue of contraception, Foster Friess gave the quote above. Andrea Mitchell was left speechless.

        The joke was that if you were a good(sic) girl(sic) and you were young when he was, you didn’t have sex. At all. You just held an aspirin between your knees and that prevented intercourse. (Of course, it’s practically an abst-only sex ed gambit in itself.)

        Plenty of fun to delve into: He was perfectly comfortable telling us (again, falsely) how cheap contraception is. He’s wanting us to believe he never did this back in his day, maybe, or that he missed the whole cultural shift when he was young and he’s sore that he didn’t get any of it.

        And leave it to him to pick out a joke that reiterates “It’s the woman’s responsibility” with lots of “good girls don’t need contraceptives” overtones, then later try to “I see by your shocked reaction that I was kidding” crap.

        • Anonymous

          Another subtext is that he [they] are ignorant of [ignoring] the fact that some women are prescrbed contraceptives for other medical conditions and, as Santorum said last October contraceptive use encourages immoral behavior, which unlike economic behavior must, must, must be regulated.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Wasn’t that the contraceptive method that Bristol Palin was taught so well?
         ‘Conservatives’ teach their children so effectively?
         But, HEY, the poster-child for ‘conservative’ abstenence training made a LOT of money, for showing the world how well it works!

    • Anonymous

      Catholic hopitals and institutions now want to ban aspirin.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        GOOD ONE!  FUNNY!

  • Brett

    Santorum’s is endorsed by violent, drugged-out, alcoholic, Heavy Metal types…BRUTAL. “SANTORUM” sounds like a Death Metal band to me anyway.

    What a wonderful gift; before they nominate Romney, and they sweep under the table what the GOP really stands for these days, we get to see the more intolerant factions of the GOP surface amid Santorum’s monologue.  

    • Gregg

      The lead singer of Megadeath endorsed him. Is that what you are referring to?

  • Newton Whale

    Three ministers, a Priest and a Rabbi walk into a hearing on women’s health…‏

    • D-gann

      Unfortunately, and after it’s too late, they realize they were mistakenly told the hearing would be about religious freedom, and the First Amendment, not Democrat Party/main stream media distortion….
                  
      See Jim Abrams Associated Press bi-line,  http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hcDMYgSQSLrNeRJnbqGO0rzqefbA?docId=584fe8d5620d423e9ec497f31bdf8bbc

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Were ANY of the clergy WOMEN?
         Most guys actively ignore ANY info on women’s health!

    • nj
  • LarrySummers2012

    From NY Times editorial:

    “Rick Santorum’s blame-government platform is wearyingly predictable. His plans are a rehash of tired Republican ideas stretching back decades.”
    Let’s try something really fresh! Keynesian spending and debt to the moon Utopian central planning! What have we (if your one of the elite banker/political/media class) got to lose? When you’re the “men” in Rule of Men, not Law, What Me Worry?
    Wait, that’s tired and old….

    OK, straight up Democratic Socialism! That might be tired and old in Europe, but how refreshing if we go for it whole-hog here!

    It’s Constitutional Government, and Classical Rule of Law that’s REALLY tired and old now, isn’t it?

    Government of Laws not Men? Accountability to all, including the “elite” class who prefer to wield Discretionary power? Tired and Old.

    Free Markets that succeed or fail on the merits of the choice action? Yep, tired, old.

    Bailouts and Industry picking and command and control? Well, tired and old for Russians, but plenty fresh here!

    Let’s keep it about the sweater vest though…..

    • nj

      Holy crap! Leather Dave has yet another handle. This is # 1003, i think. Seriously, does he think no one realizes it’s the same person, spouting the same prattle week after week? Talk about “tired and old.”

      • LarrySummers2012

        It’s just for you and TFRX, nobody else thinks its a mystery.

        Love being your whipping boy though so you can avoid substance. Very effective.

        • Anonymous

          There are only so many times we can refute your simplistic, unchanging, cut and paste talking points, favorite phrases and terms rhetoric. 

          • LarrySummers2012

            I can say the same if we want to get childish.

            What great rational solutions have you guys been proposing for our governance/political/finance crisis of corruption and bankruptcy we face?

            It will lead to a decision about sovereignty, personal liberty, central control, accountability, rule of law etc, all the topics you guys hate, but that need to be addressed when looking at our crisis.

            Or are you guys already distracted enough to put the financial swindle/crisis behind us?

          • Anonymous

            It isn’t worth arguing with a cult member who redefines others’ arguments into strawmen. 

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Looks that way to me, too! 

    • Anonymous

      Where was the rule of law and not men when Rand Paul single-handedly, through parliamentary chicanery, held up the vote for Judge Adaberto Jordan this week who then went on to be confirmed 94-5?

      • LarrySummers2012

        What was his point?

        What does stepping into line or not have to do with the Rule of Law concept?

        What do you think about the ideas in this essay:

        http://www.independent.org/students/essay/essay.asp?id=1612

        • Anonymous

          It isn’t stepping into line; it is one man holding up the senate’s responsibility to vote to confirm judges. 

          • TFRX

            Is time to post the chart about the filibusters again? I mean, Dave doesn’t know much about history.

          • LarrySummers2012

            What was his point?

      • TFRX

        …as thousands of worried Kentuckians sigh, “Oh, Rand, you really *ARE* a Republican. We were so worried you’d do some of that Libertarian stuff when it didn’t agree with us!”

  • Newton Whale

    Detroit to Romney: Get Real on Auto Bailout‏

    That includes a number of Republican “car guys” who say Romney got it wrong on an issue close to home.

    Bob Lutz, a former vice chairman at GM who remains an adviser, said he was “infuriated” about Romney’s charge this week that the 2009 government-funded bankruptcies of GM and Chrysler represented “crony capitalism on a grand scale.””It’s once again the fiction that ‘Ah, we didn’t need the government and this could have been a privately run bankruptcy with the normal Chapter 11,’” said Lutz, a Republican. “What these people always deliberately forget is there was no money. Nobody had any money.”Mike Jackson, chief executive of the auto dealership group AutoNation, called Romney’s opinion piece “reckless, detached from reality and dishonest.” http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/Romney-Detroit-auto-bailout/2012/02/15/id/429591 Editorial: What Romney misses on Detroit bailout

    ‘on the key question of whether the automakers could have managed themselves through a traditional bankruptcy without assistance from the government, Romney is wrong. The loans provided by Bush and then by Obama allowed the domestic auto industry to survive the darkest hour of its history and return to thriving operations today.”http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120215/OPINION01/202150316/1008/opinion01/Editorial-What-Romney-misses-Detroit-bailout

    GM books record annual profit; union workers due $7,000

    DETROIT (AP) – General Motors earned its largest profit ever in 2011, two years after it nearly collapsed into financial ruin.

    The 103-year-old company (GM) made $7.6 billion in 2011, up 62% from 2010. Full-year revenue rose 11% to $105 billion.GM also said Thursday that its 47,500 blue-collar workers in the U.S. will get $7,000 profit-sharing checks in March. The checks are based on North Americanperformance and are a record for the company.http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/earnings/story/2012-02-16/general-motors/53113520/1

    • LarrySummers2012

      You guys are really defending the Bailout Culture aren’t you.

      What a pathetic nation we have become, afraid of accountability, the only long term chance of justice, because it might be challenging sometimes.

      I knew GM and its crappy cars was a dinosaur when I was 16 and bought an old Toyota.

      I’m sure most did.  Did we demand better? Did we ensure crappiness could fail?  Of course not, we take the jobs bribes and the static command and control approach to industry, until we have too big to fail.

      If you don’t like too big to fail, you have to allow failure.

      • Anonymous

          If I start hearing some conservative condemnation of Ronald Reagan’s bailout of Chrysler, his many tax increases, and repeated deficits, maybe then I’ll think any of them really believe in anything. But, despite the fact that Ronnie did all these things for which Obama is vilified daily,they continue to revere him as their lord and savior. Very strange, indeed.

        • LarrySummers2012

          Who’s defending conservatives?

          • LarrySummers2012
          • Anonymous

             As I’ve admitted to before, I may be dumb, but I’m not stupid. Do you think you can post as many comments as you have without making others aware of your belief system? Claiming to have equal contempt for both conservative and liberal policy is fine. But you’ll have to make your “Anti-Republican establishment as well as DNC streak” a bit clearer.

          • LarrySummers2012

            Why does supporting the idea of limited, constitutional government have to mean one supports the establishment GOP?

            That confusion/obfuscation/hijacking of message, is not my fault.

            That conflation is really getting in the way of reform.

          • Anonymous

             I simply don’t see the same level of anger leveled at foolish conservative ideas as you level at, admittedly foolish   liberal ideas. Maybe I have to read between the lines.

          • LarrySummers2012

            One point, if you want to talk more liberty than conservative, is that by definition, foolish activist ideas are more of a problem with “big government”types than “limited government” types.

            Modern Republicans are Big Government  Authoritarians…I thought that almost went without saying.

        • TFRX

          And the bended knee press knows their role: When it comes to Ronald Reagan, print the legend.

          Remember Reagan’s tax on mid- and larger-sized motorcycles from Japan, which saved Harley-Davidson?

          Was it needed? I guess; without, reputable people say it saved the company. Did it increase the price of every Japanese motorcycle in the size range of an H-D? Damn straight.

          But was it another example of Reagan’s “free market success bandwagon”? Well, thirty years on, that’s the legend..

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Ford CEO Alan Mulowey (Sp?), got $50 MILLION in Ford stock, union workers, that BUILD the cars, may get $7,000?
         What do GM and Chrysler execs get, TOTAL package?
         What is Ford execs’ TOTAL compensation package?

  • SteveV

    I’m glad to see there are still men in government who know better than anyone
    else what’s best for women’s health. And they are smart enough to not even
    suggest cutting our Viagra subsidy. What leadership. Or should I say “What
    leadership?”.

    • LarrySummers2012

      Wait, you guys are Rule of Men, Not Law folks.  That Classical Rule of Law not Men and Constitutional Protection stuff is so old fashioned!

      That’s the lefty problem, too much cognitive dissonance, and desire for Discretionary rule to do what they think is right, but stop others from doing what they think is right.

      Live and let live.

      I think pro-choice is a personal liberty issue.  Only problem is one has to define when personhood arrives, otherwise we could argue murder could be a personal liberty issue.

      I say, use science to come up with a # of weeks limit, and then leave it to the person to decide, but no Federal subsidy.  

      • Anonymous

        Roe v. Wade established what time the government can intervene in a pregnancy.  Your claimed pro-choice beliefs ring hollow when you conflate abortion with murder.  Most anti-choice groups seek to have this issue decided by the states and not as a protected personal liberty on the federal level (not that you or Ron Paul even have a problem with letting states decide that on race based civil liberties too).  And no federal money is used on abortions. 

        • LarrySummers2012

          Jesus John, I raised the question of thinking about the timing/murder thing, because it’s an unanswerable ethical/philosophical topic.  Is 2 hours old murder? is 2 hours before natural birth murder?

          As I said I am pro-choice, but these questions are still disturbing.

          Can we vote as a people to do a One-child policy after birth? Why not if the people want it?

          I don’t call stopping and early embryo murder.  I have trouble finding terms as it gets older and older and older.

          I’m not going to debate this unanswerable thing. If I have to check a box, I’ll check pro-choice, and that is consistent to me with a personal liberty issue.

          • Anonymous

            I don’t see how supporting the anti-choice federal agenda makes you pro-choice.

          • LarrySummers2012

            Those are the blinders that get in the way of changing the power dynamic we have in this country. Up to you to see it.

            One can be pro-something without demanding the Federal government provide it.

            The reasons for limiting the power of Federal governments are historical.

            The reasons for trying to maximize personal responsibility, self-sufficiency, and an organic work/save economy, as much as POSSIBLE, should be self-evident. Otherwise you seem to be in denial of scarcity and human nature.

          • Anonymous

            Aren’t individual rights best supported by the federal government in many instances especially relating to race and women?  What is the freedom position for a lunchcounter owners right to refuse to serve blacks in a state or for a state to force a rape victim to not have an abortion?

          • LarrySummers2012

            Rights are supported by the Constitution and the courts.

            Why would you solicit such a private establishment with your dollars? I wouldn’t.  Why are you worried about controlling the “evil” in other people’s minds? You can’t can you? Should you?

            This old canard of defending other people’s rights to be jerks being so radical is silly.

            Once again, over time, the marketplace of ideas will move in a “progressive” direction. Not by federal decree but by collective individual actions.

            The problem with looking for the power to control people is that it gets corrupted and out of hand and is hard to take back.

            You still haven’t defended that type of discretionary power that set up our banking/finance scam.  

            Discretion is great when it works in your favor. Again that’s the whole point and tradeoff of using Rule of Law, not Men.

            Not perfect, but better than alternatives, even if we can’t prevent a-holes.

          • Anonymous

            You never answer any specific questions.  The financial mess isn’t the only issue that matters and your utopian single answer to every problem solution isn’t a panacea.

          • LarrySummers2012

            What is my “single answer”?

            What is more disturbingand consequential to our country thanthe financial crises and complete lackof accountability? Is this a game to you?Can you readthis skinnymesage, I hate this.

      • nj

        Leather Dave +1003 now wants science to decide when a person is a person. Nice try Dave. People have to make that subjective decision, and they have to make it collectively. Science is amoral and agnostic on value issues.

        Hey, Dave, what if i don’t drive? Doesn’t it violate my “personal liberty” to pay for road taxes? Hey, Dave, i have my own water well and a shelf full of books. Why should i pay for a public water system or the library. Goddam central planning government taking my hard-earned tax money for crap i don’t need.

        There are almost as many other examples as you have handles where your simplistic, cultish “liberty” agenda is just so much empty pablum. You never deal in specifics, just generalized theory and fantasy.

        There is no absolute line to be drawn between “personal liberty” and individual responsibility to participate in the collective commons. It’s always going to be a push and pull to determine the balance. That’s what democracy is all about.

        Your cartoonish depiction of the available options (Communist Central Planning), and your stereotyping of anyone who doesn’t buy into your fantasy merely continues to turn off anyone who might actually agree with you on the problems we face.

        You’ve been told this over and over, but like any cultist, you can’t or won’t hear it.

        • LarrySummers2012

          As soon as you can get off your high horse and even acknowledge the Rule of Law vs. Central Planning concept and why it is important, even if not taken to some purist extreme, which very few “liberty” types actually advocate, I can take my foot off the gas.

          This has been a baby out with the bathwater thing against knee-jerk liberals who think its in-vogue to hate “liberty” these days because they associate with the Nascar class or confuse it with Neoconservative Republican crap, from the start.

          You have to address the Bailouts and our Monetary Policy/system as is relates to pandering politicians in both parties.

          IMO you have too much faith in DNC figures and too little appreciation of the shortcomings of elite rule, destroying our currency and the broad nature of tyranny and how our founders wanted to avoid it.

          • nj

            I rest my case.

          • LarrySummers2012

            Can’t do it can you?  At least bless us with your argument of why Rule of Men is better than Rule of Law.

          • LarrySummers2012

            “You have to address the Bailouts and our Monetary Policy/system as is relates to pandering politicians in both parties.”

            Cmon, you can do it. Talk about the “Business Cycle”, talk about high leverage fractional reserve banking, talk about how the banking and political elites are above the law today, which raises the rule of law vs discretionary rule of men question.

            Is there a “balance” of course. And the point is that the pendulum has gone way off course, and Obamas further faith in benevolent big government and bankers, is further entrenching our problems.

          • Anonymous

            It sure has! And you would take it further off course.

          • Anonymous

            I don’t think you can define “the Rule of Law vs. Central Planning.”

            Is the design of the Interstate Road system central planning? Or should everyone just go out and build their own roads even when they don’t have the money to buy the land they need to build them?

            Is the design of the Armed Forces central planning? When an enemy is perceived, should the response be left to individuals to determine on their own or should everyone get together and devise a response?When a law is created that calls for “central planning” is it a “Law”? Or just an acknowledgment that by working together a better and cheaper result can obtain?

            This is the problem with total obeisance to ideology, particularly when that ideology is warped.

  • Terry Tree Tree

    Catholic clergy ENCOURAGING Child-Molesting and Child-Abuse, made the news again!
       Clergy that were ‘assigned to investigate’ pedophile priests, PROTECTED, AND ENABLED priests to do MORE Child-Molesting and Abuse!
        To ‘protect the name of the Catholic church’, cases were settled out of court!
        These things, alone, are enough for me to wonder WHY ANYONE would be a part of the Catholic church, if they do NOT CONDONE Child-Molesting, and Child-Abuse?

  • Ed

    On the health care mandate see the parable of the kosher deli:

    http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/the-parable-of-the-kosher-deli/

    This is not about contraception, it’s about religious freedom. It doesn’t affect only Catholics, but every religion (except the Amish, who got an exemption).

    Secularism is a world view, a religion, and it wants to establish itself and rule out others, which the Constitution prohibits.

    The barred-from-Communion Sibelius (and probably self-excommunicated) now decides who gets what in health care insurance, and she answers only to the president.

    • Anonymous

      Secularism is not a religion.  Believe whatever fairytales you want, just don’t cite them as grounds to pass laws to restrict those of us who don’t.  The Amish are probably exempt because they don’t take federal money, employ non-Amish, and administer health care to non-Amish.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        They don’t have a LOOONG history of raping boys and girls, like the Catholics?

    • mary elizabeth

      That  the Bishops would use the Eucharist to make political points and to try and  gain  upper hand lest anyone dare think for themselves or for the common good is what makes them so repugnant to true christians.  Jesus’ first Commandment is “Love one Another”.
       while many of us may be “barred from communion”, the
      Holy Spirit is just as present in our lives as in the places the Bishops deem to “allow”  it.  
      To suggest as they do that he only path to the Divine is through them is the height of narcissism.

      • Greyman

        Uhh, no: the great and first commandment of Jesus is NOT “Love one another”. Cf. Mk 12:28-34, Mt 22:34-40, Lk 10: 25-28.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Catholics DEMAND the ‘religious freedom’ for clergy to RAPE children, and NOT get real punishment?  This protects ‘the name of the Catholic church’?
         With this LONG HISTORY of Child-rape, and Child-Abuse, Catholics know ANYTHING about MORALS?

    • TFRX

      Am I forgetting things, or does any Republican anywhere (hello, Rudy 911iani!) ever get the frownies from the Catholic hierarchy?

  • Terry Tree Tree

    I hope President Obama gets enough ‘Super-Pac’ money and support, that the 5 ACTIVIST JUDGES ‘Justices’, admit they are corrupt, or senile, and RESIGN!
      Preferably, they will reveal, or it will be revealed, if they have gotten ANY form of compensation, from proponents of Super-Pacs. 
        ONLY if Super-Pacs go SO wrong, for the backers, will there be a ‘conservative’ effort to get rid of them.
       Super-Pacs were a CRIME against the citizens of the United States!      ONLY the corrupt, or senile cannot see this?

    • LarrySummers2012

      I hope he cuts to the chase, abolishes the court by executive order, so he can finally just mandate his righteous master plan.

      This Democratic Republic stuff and Rule of Law not Men, is so….. 1700′s!  

      If we want Walden II, we have to lose that crusty old Constitution thingy.

      • Anonymous

           Would this be the same Constitution “thingy” the Bush administration trampled over in order to keep me safe.

        • Gregg

           http://www.mcnaughtonart.com/artwork/view_zoom/?artpiece_id=379

        • Hidan

           Yeppers,

          Conservatives love Authoritarian acts and tend to on a whole widely support such. They only whin about the small things when it’s politically feasible.

          Take for example government laws like the Patriot Act,  Arresting citizens without due Process, Wireless Wiretapping, Targeted assassination without due process.

          All Supported by Conservatives with very little outcry yet obama allowing women to be cover for birth control is Tyranny.  

        • LarrySummers2012

          Yes indeed! Youv’e got both parties working against you, same as it ever was!

          • Anonymous

             You may be right. But Republicans are at least slightly more frightening than Democrats.

          • LarrySummers2012

            Yep, but 2 wrongs, one a bit more than the other still don’t make a right.

            Or is that too “idealogical” or “1800′s” for folks here (not you)?

          • Anonymous

             Fair enough.

      • Anonymous

        You might want to stop with you think passes for humor. It’s not working. Why not just come out and be the right wing extremist you are.

        • LarrySummers2012

          Explain my right-wing extremist views would you?

          Is it my personal liberty streak?

          Is it my Accountability for all not just the plebes streak?

          Is it my Constitutionalist streak?

          Is it my anti-war streak?

          Is it my anti-Republican establishment as much as DNC streak?

          or just my Sound-Money streak?

          Scary stuff!

          • LarrySummers2012

            Of course everybody else is a right-wing extremist to those who think we should have a fully planned-by-the-smarties-like-me (Larry Summers), Walden II style Utopian world.

          • LarrySummers2012

            I loved that book when I was in college. I would have voted to enforce that then.  I was an arrogant ass looking to impose that on everyone. No you may call me an arrogant ass if you want, but I’m not arguing for my coercive plans to be enforced. Arguing for maximum liberty, with all it’s warts, is the opposite of arguing for coercive central plans.  But please do try to paint the liberty view as some kind of equally authoritarian imposition though, its always so refreshing.

          • nj

            Leather Dave has found his audience. Keep talking to yourself, bud, you’ve found someone who will listen.

          • LarrySummers2012

            As an aside, do you know who Leatherstocking is?

          • kelty

            Natty Gumpo

          • kelty

            Sorry Bumppo
            Sorrsorry Bumppo

          • LarrySummers2012

            A fine fellow. A bit 1700′s of course….

          • kelty

            Yes, well James Fenimore Copper wasn’t exactly lauded on his books during his day but they have stood the test of time – wans’t very happy w/ how they distroyed it w/ the movie version of LOTM :(

          • LarrySummers2012

            Theiris the Hollywwood one, but there wasalsoa public TVmini series one, haven’tseenit… And maybea silent one?

    • TFRX

      I wish there wasn’t such stiff competition in the last score of years for “worst jurist” and “worse decision”.

  • Newton Whale

    The state of Virginia is about to rape women, legally

    This week, the Virginia state Legislature passed a bill that would require women to have an ultrasound before they may have an abortion. Because the great majority of abortions occur during the first 12 weeks, that means most women will be forced to have a transvaginal procedure, in which a probe is inserted into the vagina, and then moved around until an ultrasound image is produced.As an editorial in the Virginian-Pilot put it recently, “Under any other circumstances, forcing an unwilling person to submit to a vaginal probing would be a violation beyond imagining. Requiring a doctor to commit such an act, especially when medically unnecessary, and to submit to an arbitrary waiting period, is to demand an abrogation of medical ethics, if not common decency.”* http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/02/virginia_ultrasound_law_women_who_want_an_abortion_will_be_forcibly_penetrated_for_no_medical_reason.html 

    • Terry Tree Tree

      If she was raped, and became pregnant, this would be raping a victim, for being raped!

  • Terry Tree Tree

    EVERY U.S. Congressman, Senator, or other ‘public servant’, that says, thinks, or represents that they are NOT rich, WILL work for only minimum-wage, for ten years, to get an idea of wealth?
      PROVE IT!  OR admit that you don’t know what you are talking about, and therefore are UNFIT to make decisions for U.S. Citizens, that are NOT wealthy!

  • Terry Tree Tree

    Satellites, surveilance drones, SR-71 Blackbird, and MANY other methods, could EASILY verify the violence in Syria, and whether Army tanks, etc…, are being used?
       If ANYONE else in the world wanted to know?

    • Hidan

      Would the U.S. actually tell the truth of what’s going on is the better question if these drones were used? In libya both the Press and the U.S. government omitted or suppressed information that did not fix the line the TNC were freedom loving protestors and only reported after the fact.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Does Syria have a major amount of oil?  Natural resources for ‘U.S.’ Corporations to exploit?

  • AC

    hey, what happened to Newt? I’ve been too busy to pay much attention to anything, but did something scandalous occur & I missed it?

    • Anonymous

      Nothing new.  Still with wife number three.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        With the ‘open-marriage’, he tried to get wife#2 to go for?
           Still hasn’t found wife#4?

      • TFRX

        I wonder if Callista dares cough in front of Newt. She knows where that can lead.

    • Anonymous

       I think Rick Santorum must have told him he should get out of the race.

    • Gregg

      I think he just wore out his welcome, that and the negative ads. I think Super Tuesday is his last gasp but he’s now saying he may lose Georgia. But then again Romney may lose Michigan. Go figure. The Santorum surge is real and that hurts Newt directly. I think if Newt gets out and Santorum wins in Michigan then it’s going to be hard to stop him.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        ‘Conservatives’ in their own states can’t stand them?

    • Hidan

       Sheldon Adelson stopped financing Newt’s campaign. So in a sense Newt Ran out of money.  In a sense Adelson told Mitt to play nice and he get some of his money.

  • aj

    ” Airstrikes have -not caused a huge number of civilian casualties- it is -important for
    everybody to understand that this thing is kept on a very tight leash.”-His Excellency Barry Hussein Obama JuniorJanuary 31, 2012
     
    ———————————

    375 Afghan women and children had there remaining years of earthly existence pre-emptively canceled by U.S. tax payer funded weapons operated by U.S. military serviceman in 2011.

    The number of women and children killed by U.S. air strikes was 187.

    The number of women and children killed during controversial U.S. military night raids on homes was 63 in 2011.

    -Associated Press
     February 4, 2012

    ————————————

    U.S. Military currently occupying Afghanistan said on Wednesday they obliterated 8 children last week in an air strike.

    -Reuters
     February 15 2012

    The munitions used were financed via a loan credited to the hard-working underpaid U.S. tax-paying citizen’s Treasury by the well capitalized People’s Republic of China. 

    Said loan shall be repaid in full, plus accrued interest there of, no later than said maturity at initial time of purchase. 

    If for lack of funds, the loan’s accrued interest and principle is unable to be paid in full, your own U.S. representatively-elected government shall reserve the right to cut and/or revoke any and/or all measly and woefully insufficient benefits you thought were owed to your hard-working ass at time of retirement…Sucker.

    ————————————

  • Hidan

    Curious how Onpoint is going to cover the acts in India and Thailand. Will the Languages be  Targeted assassination? or Terrorist? Will the guest pick up the talking point of Iran Lashing out without noting the targeted assassination or terrorism by Israel and the MEK against Iran?

    If Terrorism is used for the actions of Iran why was it not used by the similar actions against Iran by Israel?

    By
    Gideon Levy
    Iran uses terror to target civilians, and so does Israel

    Who is against terror? We will all devotedly
    raise our hands. But people who are truly against terror must also say:
    against all terror, against any terror, be it Iranian, Palestinian or
    Israeli.

    But according to the data of the human rights group B’Tselem, Israel targeted and killed no less than 232 Palestinians in the territories between the beginning of the second intifada and Operation Cast Lead, a period of about eight years. During those attacks,approximately 150 innocent bystanders were killed, including women and children.

    These assassinations, most of which did not target “ticking bombs,” were acts of terror. They are not much different from the criminal Iranian attempts in far-off Asia. The representative of the Defense Ministry in New Dehli does not deserve to die, but neither did Dr. Thabet Thabet. The Iranian scientists probably did not deserve to die either.

    In February 1990, then-Commerce and Industry Minister Ariel Sharon asked the delegates to the Likud Central Committee convention: “Who’s for stopping terror?” A sea of hands flew up. Today the question should be: Who is against terror? We will all devotedly raise our hands. But people who are truly against terror must also say: against all terror, against any terror, be it Iranian, Palestinian or Israeli

    • Hidan

       http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/iran-uses-terror-to-target-civilians-and-so-does-israel-1.413211

    • aj

      The bottom line is according to the U.S government and their overpaid Beltway media elite;

      Palestinean Arab Christian, Muslim, and non-believing women and children’s blood is worth less than European and American Jewish colonist’s blood. 

      Palestinean Arab Jews notwithstanding.

  • Anonymous

    Biggest news of the week: William Shatner returns to Broadway after 50 years!

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Shatner is an excellent entertainer!

    • Anonymous

      Spock, analysis…

  • Hidan

    Losing the World by Noam Chomsky

    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/02/2012215773268827.html

    The most important victory of the Indochina wars was in 1965, when a US-backed military coup in Indonesia led by General Suharto carried out massive crimes that were compared by the CIA to those of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao. The “staggering mass slaughter”, as the New York Times described it, was reported accurately across the mainstream, and with unrestrained euphoria.

    Despite such victories, American decline continued. By 1970, the US share of world wealth had dropped to about 25 per cent, roughly where it remains, still colossal but far below the end of World War II. By then, the industrial world was “tripolar”: US-based North America, German-based Europe, and East Asia, already the most dynamic industrial region, at the time Japan-based, but by now including the former Japanese colonies Taiwan and South Korea, and more recently China.

    At about that time, American decline entered a new phase: conscious self-inflicted decline. From the 1970s, there has been a significant change in the US economy, as planners, private and state, shifted it towards financialisation and the offshoring of production, driven in part by the declining rate of profit in domestic manufacturing. These decisions initiated a vicious cycle in which wealth became highly concentrated (dramatically so in the top 0.1 per cent of the population), yielding concentration of political power, hence legislation to carry the cycle further: taxation and other fiscal policies, deregulation, changes in the rules of corporate governance allowing huge gains for executives, and so on.

    Meanwhile, for the majority, real wages largely stagnated, and people were able to get by only by sharply increased workloads (far beyond Europe), unsustainable debt, and repeated bubbles since the Reagan years, creating paper wealth that inevitably disappeared when they burst (and the perpetrators were bailed out by the taxpayer). In parallel, the political system has been increasingly shredded as both parties are driven deeper into corporate pockets with the escalating cost of elections, the Republicans to the level of farce, the Democrats (now largely the former “moderate Republicans”) not far behind.

  • JP

    The economy is improving.

    Time for the oil companies to jack up oil and gas prices while people are less likely to complain.

    The wealthy should always squeeze Americans for every penny they’re worth!

    • Anonymous

      You left out the speculators.

      • LarrySummers2012

        And the inflation to really nail the poor and elderly… oops, thats the current money-printing/debt Republicrat policy.

    • Anonymous

          Why do so many believe that gasoline
      should somehow be unaffected by the inflationary pressures that effect every other thing we buy? Adjusted  for inflation, the cost of a gallon of gas in 1938 was $3.16 per gallon. It has fluctuated wildly in the years since. Is it really supposed to be thirty five cents a gallon forever?

    • Terry Tree Tree

      There’s really nothing like ‘compassionate’ ‘conservative’ ‘Christian’, no-regulations, businessmen, to make life ‘better’?

  • Hidan

    Oh Yea,

    The actual Terrorist “Underwear Bomber” was tried in an civilian court on U.S. soil and sentenced to Life.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-02-16/underwear-bomber/53115186/1

    Sounds like the Republican were full of it with the cry that the above could not happen.  

    • Terry Tree Tree

      That was proven MANY times, under the ‘conservative’ admin of ‘W’!

  • Stillin

    If everybody would stop what they are presently doing and CALL for their “estimated social security benefits” 1-800-772-1213 you will find yours to be 20 PERCENT LESS than the last printed, mailed statement. MINE was from 2010 but 20 PERCENT LESS is CRIMINAL. I cannot afford that, no way. When I called and got the official explanation, I was told ” the index factor ” brought it down. Everybody needs to check their online or call, unless you are so wealthy it doesn’t matter to you.  I am LIVID.

    • aj

      The US government’s measure of inflation no longer measures a constant standard of living.  Instead, the government’s inflation measure relies on substitution of cheaper goods for those that rise in price.

      In other words, the government holds the measure of inflation down by measuring a declining standard of living.

      This permits our rulers to divert cost-of-living-adjustments that should be paid to Social Security recipients to wars of aggression, police state, and banker bailouts

      What’s worse, this is just the beginning.

      The U.S. citizenry is just plain stupid.

      • Tlbritt

        Your comments here and on other topics confirm your last sentence.

    • Greyman

      –but in part that’s what this week’s House vote on extending the payroll tax cuts consists of, no? Wage sequestration for Social Security/FICA is being trimmed now to put earnings in the hands of wage-earners. We can be confident that the funds will be restored to Social Security/FICA later, though, right? Because we are Americans, we get money now just as we’ll get money later. Voila!

      • Stillin

         Yea right. My paycheck did not change one aota. I get no more money with the “payroll tax” than I did before it existed. I travel to pick a place to retire to, it won’t be in this country.

  • Anne

    I hope the panel will comment on the loss of Anthony Shadid. On Point did a wonderful show with him recently, and this is a great loss.

  • Terry Tree Tree

    BP, TransOcean, Halliburton, and ALL other companies, AND the execs of PR firms that have sold out to them, WILL go and eat the WORST polluted ‘foods’ from Deepwater Horizon?   To PROVE, beyond the shadow of doubt, that their ads are true?
    Their families too?  Their VICTIMS’ families are stuck with it!

    • LarrySummers2012

      Green cronyism, Black cronyism, we love it all!  We each get our little team to root for while everything crumbles and goes bankrupt around us.

  • JP

    Santorum is “warmer, fuzzier????!!!”

    Is that what Republicans call hate, intolerance, and narrow-mindedness now??!!!

    … don’t bother answering that.

    • nj

      OP seems to go out of their way to find lame talking heads for these Friday shows.

      • Ray in VT

        I think that they meant more personable and likeable when iteracting with people on the campaign trail.  Romney has that reputation for being stiff and uncomfortable with the public, and Santorum, I guess, is a lot better with people.  Having said that, I do not care for his brand of social conservatism.  I also didn’t care for President George W. Bush, but I’ve always heard that people who knew him who disagreed with him still liked him personally.

        • TFRX

          Romney has that reputation for being stiff and uncomfortable with the public

          It’s not a “reputation”. It’s earned. I spent some time wondering if the Beltway Inbreds were watching the same Al Gore that I was, for example. The press isn’t inventing it this time.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Interesting reminder.
               I met Al Gore, less than two minutes, when my child was at the U.S. Naval Academy.
               He was seemingly genuine and engaging, even in such a tight schedule.  I mentioned a mutual acquaintance, and he held up his entourage to briefly exchange comments!

        • nj

          Not my point. Most of the discussion today was about personality, atmospherics, strategizing…all the usual blahblahblah campaign stuff.

          For every media minute spent actually looking at what these clowns stand for, there are hours of this blahblah about personality, “connecting,” etc.

          One might expect OP to rise above it, but most of the time, they don’t.

  • MarkVII88

    Given data that suggests independents make up roughly 40% of the national electorate, doesn’t it seem like the Republicans have taken their eyes off the ball this Primary season?  If the Republican candidates are all clamoring/pandering toward the right, what happens in November when all these alienated, moderate independents cast their votes?  I think the Republicans have already lost in November.

    • Ray in VT

       It’s generally the case that the primary campaign, especially a hotly contested one, pushes the candidates further towards the extremes in order to appeal to the party base, who tend to be the ones who turn out in the largest numbers during the primary.  The trick, then, is to track back towards the middle if one wants to appeal to the moderate voting block.

    • BHA in Vermont

       We’ll see.
      I happen to agree with you. How does a fight for “I’m more conservative than you” “I’m more properly religious than you” “Obama did everything wrong” (without saying what THEY would have done instead)
      translate to a win in November when the left and center also vote?

      I fail to see how all the religious people who THEORETICALLY are supposed to be people who care about their fellow men, women and kids translates into acceptance of the former health care system which left tens of millions out in the cold. The current system is not perfect (far from it) but at least it is a step in the right direction.

      • Anonymous

        Any healthcare change that takes the doctor farther away from the patients decisions is a step in the wrong direction.  That is why most Americans don’t approve of the Obamacare bill that we are still finding out what is in it!

        • TFRX

          You really want to stake (what’s left of) your reputation linking your first sentence to your second, or how well the people on your side have a handle on “facts”?

    • Anonymous

      With 40% of americans leaning conservative and only 20% leaning Liberal, it should be pretty easy for a conservative to win if the election is based on the facts!

      http://www.gallup.com/poll/123854/conservatives-maintain-edge-top-ideological-group.aspx

  • lw

    It is like we are going back to the 1950s with both of these Republican candidates.  Making birth control a campaign issue–are you kidding me?????  how can women vote for these people?? 

    • nj

      More like the 1800s. 

  • Jemimah

    Jack, stop coaching Mitt!!!

  • AC

    this is a weird thing to bring up, but it sort of has to do with these birth control/contraception things – some people on here know i’ve been looking into adoption for a little while now. what’s weird, that i’ve noticed, a lot of the really expensives ‘services’ find their young, unwed mothers in these states that are known to be more prolife, anti-contraception….& they blatantly tell you wait periods are longer these days because of gov measures to curb these social problems.
    so PURE speculation here – no facts at all – what if these people are using God (wouldn’t be the first time humans do this) to keep this lucrative business going? These services are NOT cheap even for a normal wait. less patience will cost you even more money. I’m just thinking aloud here. there are black market baby sales too, i just don’t know how these things actually go down. Do you just ask your social worker if she can think of any other avenues & wink a lot???

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Good luck on the adoption!  Thank you for sharing your love with a child, or children that need it!
         The system seems rigged to FORCE black-market adoption?  Such a ‘compassionate’, ‘social conservative’ ‘Christian’ attitude?

  • Scott B, Jamestown NY

    Santorum’s quote about there’s supposed to be such a divide between the very wealthy and the rest of the people is exactly the problem in the US.  He’s got an Ayn Rand view of the world from his 1% view.

    I agree that there will be a big gap between the wealthy and the other 99%, but except for the very bottom of the 99% (those that literally can’t or won’t work, no judgements on why) most Americans are working way too  hard for way too little, and paying more than there fair share.

    If wages had risen with inflation and/or cost of living, so many people wouldn’t need food stamps, medicaid, welfare, et al.  If Wall St hadn’t lined its own pockets on the back of Main St, and regulation (ala Glass-Steagall, NAFTA…) we wouldn’t have had the debacle we did.

    “If America’s the great nation on earth, why does it cost so much to live here?”  – Kevin Costen, in “Swing Vote”

    • LarrySummers2012

      “Santorum’s quote about there’s supposed to be such a divide between the very wealthy and the rest of the people is exactly the problem in the US.”

      No, its not. Unless Democrat means Socialist or Communist now, nobody should have any problem with that statement.

      “supposed to” is not by design, it reflects reality. Combine that with a safety net for the truly unable, and what’s the big deal? Its life.

      Centralized solutions to fight scarcity or diversity or entropy have never worked.

      Can’t we accept this and just get back to work and punish some banker/plolitical colluders?

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Santorum thinks he should be isolated from 99% of the people that he thinks that he should govern?
          ‘Conservative’ of WHAT?

        • LarrySummers2012

          How does he think that? Isolated?

          • Terry Tree Tree

            If he believes there should be a divide, do you really he’s going to spend the rest of his life supporting his family on minimum wage?
                MOST that believe there should be a divide, ARE, or want to be on the 1% of that divide?

          • LarrySummers2012

            He believes there IS a divide, resulting from reality and peoples choices and yes, circumstances. Not that there SHOULD be, in the sense that he wants it.

            We shouldn’t have to just breath oxygen, but we do. Maybe the Fed could print up oxygen bills so we can live on Mars…….

    • Anonymous

      Who is this 99% that you speak of? and how do you know if you are 99% or 1%?

      I think a better devide is 53%!  I know I am a member of the 53% of Americans that pay Federal Income Taxes.  I sure wish there were more people supporting the tax load!

      • TFRX

        TalkingPointzConcernTroll is Concerned.

        Those damned Lucky Duckies, living the high life of being too poor to need to pay taxes. I’m sure the higher percentage of other taxes which fall on them proportionately is no bother.

        • Ray in VT

           I think that the state and local taxes are often left out of the mix, and the 53/47 number is sometimes willfully portrayed in such a way so as to imply that lower income earners are getting a free ride.  Below the Federal level, this is the quote that I was able to track down from David Cay Johnston:

          “When it comes to state and local taxes, the poor bear a heavier burden
          than the rich in every state except Vermont, the Institute on Taxation
          and Economic Policy calculated from official data. In Alabama, for
          example, the burden on the poor is more than twice that of the top 1
          percent. The one-fifth of Alabama families making less than $13,000 pay
          almost 11 percent of their income in state and local taxes, compared
          with less than 4 percent for those who make $229,000 or more.”

          http://www.rochestercitynewspaper.com/news/articles/2011/04/FEATURE-Tax-myths-and-tall-tales/

          • TFRX

            Don’t need to tone down for Branny’s sake.

            People with their marching orders on the “53%” never count any taxes except Federal income taxes.

            And they’ve spent damn little time living the “Hi-lowlife”.

  • Terry Tree Tree

    BEST examples of ‘conservative’ intelligence on sexual matters:
       Abstinence works, just look at Bristol Palin?
       Homosexuality is an abomination, just ask Larry Craig?
       Marriage is sacrosanct, just ask Newt Gingrich?
       Contraception is simple, just ask Foster Frieze?
       Homosexuality is an abomination, just ask Catholic pedophiles, and the clergy that were sent to ‘investigate’ them?
      

    • aj

      Are there any other species in the Animal Kingdom that conduct homosexual activity?

      • aj

        And if not, what does that mean? Biologically?

        • Anonymous

          If so, what does that mean legally?

          • aj

            Don’t get me wrong, I’m a civil libretarian and am supportive of the right for gays to go to city hall and enter into a legal marriage contract in all 50 states. 

            Because I believe that right is provided for in the Federal governments constituion.

            That same constitution provides the right of any congregation unwilling to sanctify that said marriage ceremoniously in their place of worship from being compelled to by government statute. 

            But I just am asking if any other primates, particularly males, engage in homosexual intercourse, which you have yet to demonstrate.

          • Anonymous

             What’s the hangup with intercourse about. Your original question was about “Homosexual behavior,” which is embodied in a lot more activities than just intercourse. And your dismissal of female homosexuality is puzzling as well.

          • aj

            Because just because a female primate licks another female primate doesn’t mean its homosexual activity. 

            Male/male primate(non-hono sapian) activity would be definitive evidence, therefore convincing me of the biological/universal versus the psychological/human-concocted origins of the condition. 

          • Anonymous

             As I claimed earlier, “consistent.”

          • aj

            With respect, when speaking on the biological nature of the homosexual condition as it applies to all primate species and to set aside intercourse(reproduction (particularly male)) in making the case biologically speaking is a bit of a stretch.

          • Anonymous

             I would suggest, in the future you not ask for evidence if you don’t really want evidence.

          • Anonymous

            This is a pretty thinly disguised anti-gay argument you are posting here. You don’t fool me. As the feettothefire stated, you’re not looking for evidence. I see right through your game buddy.

          • Anonymous

            Who is advocating that religious institutions be compelled to perform same sex marriages? 

            Yet more proof:
            http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal_2.html

          • aj

            OK your link points to bi-sexual activity in bombo primates. 

            But if that is your evidence then that means homosexual homosapians are really only bi-sexual and not solely homo-sexual from a biological perspective, though their psyche says they are entirely homosexual, but that is not biological.

            Henceforth, though a hetero-sexual might experience physical sensation if subjected to homo-sexual act, doesn’t mean it isn’t biologically predisposed to be hetero-sexual.  Like the Bombobo primate just enjoying the physical sensation.

            In conclusion, this means a homo-sexual is actually one who prefers bi-sexual activity, but is not biologically solely homo-sexual, only psychologically.

            Granted, transvestites complicate the issue, but that is predominately biological in nature(so confusion in this case is understandable) not psychological in nature like a homosapian who claims to be solely homosexual.

            Basically, biologically speaking there is not COMPLETE equivalency between one who is solely hetero and one who claims to be solely homo.  Based on the evidence provided for on homosexual activity in other primate species.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            I wish I remembered the name of that program about chimps.  You can probably find it, if you don’t chose to ignore it.
               It is not that important to me.  I witnessed farm animals, and the show.  I can no longer agree with the propaganda that I heard growing up, and beyond.  It IS natural, just not for me.
               Even if Tennessee legalizes gay marriage, I won’t marry a guy.

          • Anonymous

            And the point of your question is what exactly? Being that male primates, particularly chimps use sex as a way to dominate the lesser males in their groups how does this have any baring on human sexuality. 

            That said, we humans use sex to dominate others as well. Sex as power, some use money. Your doing it now with your thinly disguised query into the the sexuality of primates as way to demean gay folk.

        • Anonymous

           Irrelevant question. See links above. Then you can ignore what they say.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Well said!

      • Anonymous

        Most species engage in it.

      • Anonymous

        Yes. Can Animals Be Gay? – NYTimes.com
        http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/04/magazine/04animals-t.html

      • Terry Tree Tree

        I was raised on a farm. YES, there are.
           One study claims over 300 species do.
        I never saw any of the animals on the farm reading books on how to become homosexual!

        • Anonymous

          or a book on why it is evil

        • Anonymous

          Darwin’s view of this must be that since homosexual activity doesn’t result in additional specimins of a species, it must be another way of natural selection that eliminates homosexual behavior.

      • Tlbritt

        Yes. Do the research yourself.

      • aj

        I’m not trying to difficult Terry John and Feet but honestly, I’m still not convinced that 2 males mate (or atleast attempt to in vain) in the within the animal kingdom.

        I know it’s a big world out there, but let me get more focused.  Do any other primates ever have a pair of males get together and, you know, do it?

        I dont think so.  With all due respect to those of you are LBTG DFJIJNKKMLKMJNBHGFCGVC or what ever.

        • Anonymous

             At least your consistent. Ask a question. Get an answer. Don’t like the answer. Ignore the answer.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Actually, there was a show about studying chimpanzees in the wild, that showed all but the actual act, with narrative that ‘politely’ told that was happening.
             If you don’t believe it, go find out.  I have only witnessed farm animals, including dogs.
             It’s not my preference, but I saw so much hypocricy, and out-right lying about it, that I must speak up with the truth that I have seen.

        • TFRX

          LBTG DFJIJNKKMLKMJNBHGFCGVC

          Dude, your outreach PR program isn’t working.

        • Anonymous

          A lot of male primates use mounting as form of domination. Some chimps masturbate all the time. Male dogs mount other male dogs and some human legs, as a show of dominance.

          That little tidbit aside, what does primate sexuality have to do with humans?
          Apes don’t build cars or bridges nor do they write literature, as far as we know. They can learn language, but as far as I can tell they are not on the same level of brain functionality. Kind of the reason you’re sitting there commenting on a computer and Bonzo is not.  To equate the idea of homosexuality within the animal kingdom as an argument against human sexuality and difference is a pretty dumb idea.

          In fact the whole comment is pretty off base.

          • aj

            It’s called science.  Do you deny the greenhouse effect on the natural world including the animal kingdom from an over production of carbon dioxide, by your really smart and biologically isolated from other species homo-sapians.

          • Anonymous

            What you posted was not science. It was a conjecture.
            If it was science you would have had an argument backed up by empirical evidence.
            Which you don’t seem to have. As I said, humans have a very different brain than a lot of animals, such as dogs.
            I can talk about dogs because I own one and through my observation of him I’m can deduce that he’s not thinking about nor is he conversing with me on the ideas put forth by John Adams in terms of the rule of law.

            We do enjoy each others company and companionship, but I doubt he’s thinking on the same level I am about much. Except maybe dinner.

            By the way your response, it’s kind of silly in that are attempting to change the subject and topic. It is an interesting tactic, if your in the 7th grade.

  • Scott B, Jamestown NY

    Friess and Santorum are ignorant in their facts, and archaic in their thoughts, on abstinence.

    IF (BIG “IF”) abstinence is practiced 100% of the time, it’s 100% effective. But every (EVERY) reliable, independent, objective study after study after study shows that people don’t practice it, or practice what they sometimes literally preach.  Even casual observation of the news shows that people will not stop having sex, even under penalty of death, such as in the Middle East, or church doctrine.  Take a look at the Catholic church: NPR’s recent Valentines Storycore piece about a priest and nun leaving to get married; and Newt’s wife was catholic when she engaged in an affair with Newt).

      As humans, as beings within the animal kingdom, we’re physically, mentally, hormonally, and socially wired and evolved to procreate. 

    • Gregg

      No one’s against sex. No one advocates banning contraception. This is getting carried away.

      • Anonymous

        The Catholic Church is trying to ban many types of contraception.  Social conservatives tried to pass a fetal personhood law which would have outlawed many forms of contraception. 

        • LarrySummers2012

          So non-personhood laws are ok, but personhood laws are not.

          Which is it going to be? Our should the Feds stay out of it and let bible-thumpers be bible-thumpers, and casual-daters be casual-daters, and all deal with the consequences of their choices, moral and economic.

          Oh yeah, we decided Accountability was not an important value any more in our society.

          Too right-winger, too 1800′s.

          It’s 2012 for crying out loud, Nothing Matters!

          • Anonymous

            There is a separation of church and state.  People who think their fetuses are a babies are entitled to treat them as such.  They aren’t entitled to force others to accept that or laws based upon that premise.  The law has never regarded a fetus as a human.  Would it be fine with you if Mississippi passed a law removing personhood from blacks and the federal government didn’t intervene?  How much would it add to the deficit to let people who think their fetuses are actual children take a tax deduction nine months early?

          • TFRX

            Good on ya for doing this. My gears ground to a halt trying to figure out what a “non-personhood amendment” is, medically speaking.

          • LarrySummers2012

            Earlier he or someone else mentioned that the courts had determined a point in pregnancy that was non-person.

            The problem is this arbitrary point has to be “decided” in order for us to have a legal framework.

            Is it just natural birth time?  Maybe. But aborting an 8.5 mo old fetus because one wants to, or is free to, is pretty dicey. 

            So I would say just pick some early point (don’t we have 1st trimester?) and after that very special circumstances.

          • TFRX

            Yeah, with your record of standing up to right wing culture warriors, it’s time to stop pretending with you.

          • LarrySummers2012

            What kind of logic is this? What if the Federal Government is led by the “wrong” people and decide to strip blacks of personhood? We go to the UN? What if they……

            At some point all we have is the Constitution and adamance to stick to the rule of law, and justices who are held to do that.

            Are you telling me stripping personhood from a human being, is something that is remotely possible no matter how drunk the band of rednecks?

      • LarrySummers2012

        Why ruin the false narrative? It’s more fun than the big issues.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Pedophile priests preach against sex!  MANY hypocrites preach against sex?

      • Ray in VT

        This has gotten a remarkable amount of attention in the media.  If we want to get back to what Senator Santorum said, which was something to the effect that in his view it was constitutionally permissible for states to ban contraceptives.  Perhaps the debate, if it is to continue, should be focused on the Supreme Court case, the Senator’s specific comment and the implications of both.

  • Terry Tree Tree

    Whitney Houston?  Another great performing talent taken out by drug-abuse?
       What percentage of our performers are drug-addicts?  WHY?
        Hasn’t there been enough of them die for drugs?

  • Anonymous

    Jack Beatty is just pathetic, dodging the question and rehashing the tried BS. Anyone who believes China got to where it is today through nothing but theft is just crazy.

  • BHA in Vermont

    IF Israel attacks Iran and Iran attacks US ships in response, we respond.
    IF Israel attacks Iran and Iran attacks Israel in response – Israel, you are ON YOUR OWN!

    • BHA in Vermont

       Add to that, IF Israel attacks Iran without FULL United Nations APPROVAL, the USA should immediately wean Israel off the U.S. taxpayer teat. No more support, financial or otherwise. It does not matter if Iran responds or not.

      • aj

        Well the UN General Assembly will never approve it.  So what shall the congress do with the extra 3 and 1/2 billion dollars it has annually once the criminal regime in Tel Aviv goes rogue?

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Re-build the civillian, war-torn Israel, with ‘humanitarian assistance’?

          • aj

            It really is all so crazy; insane even.

    • aj

      What if Israel attacks Iran and then Israel attacks US ships in response, like they did 45 yrs ago to the USS Liberty killing 31 U.S. seaman, 2 U.S. marines, and 1 U.S. civilian, and wounding 170 U.S. seamen.

      How would you respond then BHA??

      • BHA in Vermont

         That was scenario # 1. We have plenty of war machines near Iran; send them in. Send their Navy to the depths of the Straights of Hormuz.

        WE need to let Iran KNOW that we WILL NOT support Israel if they attack without UN approval. It should be made VERY clear to Iran that attacking U.S. ships would be painful to Iran. Iran AND ISRAEL need to know that Iran responding to an unapproved attack by Israel WILL NOT bring ANY repercussions from the USA.

        • aj

          Nu..uh…

          What if Israel attacks Iran and then ISRAEL attacks US ships in response

      • Terry Tree Tree

        How would we know?  It’s not like we have hundreds of satellites, drones, SR-71 Blackbirds, Auroras, etc…, to surveil ?

        • aj

          lol.

          Sarcasm noted Terry :)

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Thanks.

  • http://profiles.google.com/rickevans033050 Rick Evans

    Painfully uninformed comments. Israel attacked an IRAQ nuclear site NOT IRAN. IRAN is Persian not Arab.  Where’s Ashbrook. Anthony Brooks is standing in the bottom of a 12 foot deep pool.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Future news?  Commenting about the ‘explosion’ at a missile site?

  • Ronen

    I Israel have it than why its unacceptable or a red line for Iran to have it? 
    Why are we willing to let Israel to drag us into another war?

  • Ian

    Let Israel fight their own war and beware of Israeli using agents provocateurs to drag the US in. Dont think they wouldnt  do it to protect themselves. They wont think twice.

  • Ronen

    Anthoney Shadeed God rest his soul, is a big loss to all of us. . He was a great reporter. . 

  • U.S. Vet.

    Iran war would cost trillions: Will the GOP (or Democrats) pay more taxes for that?
    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/02/iran-war-would-cost-trillions-will-gop-pay-more-taxes-for-that/252977/

    • Terry Tree Tree

      They’ll ‘sacrifice’, and Tax the Poor, to pay for it!  IF we win, the Filthy rich oil barons, will get the profits? 

    • Ray in VT

      Well, we didn’t really pay for the last one, but I don’t know how, if war were to become a reality, it could be paid for, in political or actual terms, through deficit spending.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        ‘Compassionate’ ‘conservative’, ‘Christian’ credit-card for the poor to pay off?

  • aj

    Once the single determined sperm has survived the acidic vaginal secretions, “swam” through the cervix, braved the vast interior of the uteris, and though fatigued completed the final stretch up the fallopian tube and maneuvered it’s way into an egg, precisely at that point (approximately 24 hours), the fertilized egg is a person and any intentional harm to it shall be considered as such. 

    Every one of you affluent polluting over consuming NPR yuppies was once nothing more than a fertilized egg.  Think about it. 

    • Anonymous

            If there’s a fire in the insemination clinic, and you can save either the three year old in the playpen, or the 1000 “people” in the freezer, I guess you’d let the three year old burn in order to save the eggs. If not, please explain.

      • aj

        It’s a fair question feet, Make no mistake, I would save the 3 yr old obviously.  But you can’t deny what I’m saying either.

        Though the fertilized egg, has 9 months of gestation in mommy’s womb, first as an embryo then as a fetus, before she can be terrified and need her person to be rescued in a a fire.

        Doesn’t mean a pregnant woman and the fetus in the same said fire, if not rescued that the fetus will not burn to death and feel pain; even if not yet a fetus but just an embryo with little eyes and a brain and a beating heart.

        • Anonymous

           Of course I can deny what you’re saying. Allowing 1000 “persons” to die, in order to save one would be considered reprehensible in any civilized society.

          • aj

            Why so closed minded in response to my well thought-out proposition. 

            Of course I can only presume that you would insist that those 1000 “persons” atleast a substantial minority of them, are already pre-determined to be homosexual, though they are not yet persons from your perspective?

            How would you square that? 

          • Anonymous

            Well thought out??? You just told me you’d let 1000 people die in order to save one. I can’t even guess what the Hell homosexuality has to do with it.

          • aj

            Perhaps your right.

          • aj

            So then when is it not ok to abort the fetus?  Be specific?

          • Anonymous

            That’s none of my business. Suffice it to say, as we all know, if men got pregnant, we wouldn’t even be having the debate. Anyone who says otherwise is full of shit.

          • TFRX

            “If men got pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.”

            -attributed to Florence King

          • aj

            I never said their should be legal ramifications for abortification once an egg is fertilized.  The Supreme has already ruled on that.
             
            And clearly the answer is barrier and hormonal contraception available to all ovulating female U.S. citizens and legal residents, thru an EQUAL distribution mechanism like single-payer insured healthcare.

            But that doesn’t change the fact that abortion is killing a child.  Notwithstanding I support stem cell research on discarded frozen fertilized eggs, so I am not entirely consistent.

            You elitist-self-righteous-affluent yuppies are so self-centered that you miss the more fundamental point.

            The real solution to this problem of aborting(killing babies) is the lack of single-payer healthcare to provide contraception and at MOST the morning after pill.  Also free day-care, and living wages so one parent can support a family, and COMPREHENSIVE sexual ed as early as primary school, and paid family leave and mandatory 6 weeks paid vacation, and universal public transit, and free tuition if not room and board at public state junior colleges, teachers colleges and universities.

            But instead of fighting for those things, all you affluent, comfortable yuppie out-of-touch liberals would rather pay less taxes, etc. because you already have PRVATE insurance and have no idea what it’s like to be BROKE literally in a cold country where not only do republicans not give acrap about you, but all filthy rich neo-liberal democratic hypocrites don’t give a crap either. 

            It’s despicable, and so is abortion.

            Those are the facts people. 

          • Anonymous

               Earlier you told us that fertilized eggs were people. Then you tell us that you’d allow 1000 of these people to die in order to save one other person. Now you tell us you support research on “discarded frozen eggs,” which you’ve already told us are people. Do YOU even know what you believe?????

          • Anonymous

             Some deep breathing exercises might be helpful  right about now. Looonng, Sloowww, Deeeep breaths.

          • Anonymous

            I’m not a elitist-self-righteous-affluent yuppy, nor am I that self centered.
            I find your comments to be all over the map. You need to find a better way of developing an argument.

            I’m all for single payer, from what I’ve read a lot of liberal minded people are as well. It’s the right that call this socialism and say this would be a bad thing.
            You seem confused and you also seem to be making a lot of assumptions.  

    • Tlbritt

      Your statements confirm our nation’s education system is in deep trouble!

    • Anonymous

      And if she miscarries she should expect a visit from the homicide detectives investigating her possible role in the miscarriage, right? 

      How long a prison term do you advocate for the woman whose behavior caused her miscarriage? 

      If you can’t answer these simple practical questions, your “ideas” have no real value.

      • aj

        A miscarriage is not criminal, and even if there was intent, either professionally or personally there would still be no criminal liability. 

        The Supreme Court has ruled on the legality, and short of an ammendment to the Federal Government’s constitution which I would not support, or the upending of “starry decisis” (case law: Roe) by an insurgent majority of justices on the bench of this Nation’s highest court there never will be legal exposure on the matter. 

        I am speaking on an ethical basis.  And I am asking you to be honest and ethically think through my post above.  I am trying to be open minded, but ethically you must admit, it takes a man AND a woman. 

        So to argue that the woman should be able to go willy-nilly and have her pregnancy aborted, and then stop off for a manicure with her girlfriends, is legal but ETHICALLY problematic, particularly if the decision is made unilaterally with out the man, assuming she definitively knows which man is the father to be…no?

        • aj

          What other species in the animal kingdom let alone the primate family, aborts their gestation?  I love women, women are generally better than men in most everything.  This is not about women.  This is about scientific and ethical fact.

          From a scientific, biological, natural world perspective; the solely homo-sapian act of abortion is quite simply and without question one of the most heinous reprehensible acts known. 

          But I guess I’m speaking to citizens of a Nation who pays their government to drop bombs on children of other less enlightened countries, and don’t see fit to speak out against this heinous act, so what is one do??

        • Anonymous

          If a miscarriage is the death of a human being, the same as the death of a 3-year old, whether it is criminal depends on how it happened.  If it is induced in any way whatsoever, how can you say the persons responsible for inducing are not criminals under your analysis.  You can’t and be intellectually honest.

          And will it be life in prison for one who causes miscarriage or abortion?  If not, why not?

          Finally, if you agree with or accept Roe v Wade and its progeny, what the hell are you talking about?

          • aj

            So was it criminal when YOUR President- His Excellency Barry Hussein Obama Junior- ordered the assasination of a 16 year old minor in a foreign sovereign nation in YOUR REPRESENTATIVE-governments name using a warhead financed with YOUR tax dollar?

            Which would make you complicit in this illegal act, following your logic.

            Of course you would dispute your liability or perhaps criminal negligence in this murder- no different than the afore mentioned 3 year old’s homicide- why would you dispute your alleged guilt?

            Because legal and ethical can be simutaneously contradictory and yet equally relevant in their respective arenas of nuance.

          • aj

            Prison?  What the hell are you talking about?

            If miscarriage occurs, first of all it is a tragic occurence, for all involved particularly the woman.

            But Roe is settled case law.  One could not be arrested and deprived of her liberty because there is no crime to investigate or prevent.  Let alone be arraigned and forced to enter a plea because the Supreme Court prempted state laws (Roe) that have allowed for criminal complaints in the past for abortions. 

            So no prison sentence,in a county house of corrections for female offenders, women’s state prison or federal penetentiary would be remotely applicable.

            I never said I agreed with Roe.  Quite simply, their is no basis for the decision in the Constitution, and no standing for the federal government to legislate on the matter.

            You live in a constitutional federal republic, and your federal governments constitution does not give its citizen’s the right to kill their unborn babies, pre-empting state statutes to the contrary.

            That said I wouldn’t support an ammendement to the constitution, doesn’t mean that Roe was correct.  Your state supreme court or your state’s constitution, or legislature are avenue’s in which one should pursue the right to abort one’s pregnancy.  And at a state level I would oppose that right.  Though if a majority of that state’s populace legally codified that right, I would respect it, thought it remains a most hideous act.  Respectfully.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Vasectomies are CHEAPER, FASTER, FAR LESS DANGEROUS, EASILY DONE IN DR. OFFICE, FAR LESS TRAUMATIC, and have other advantages!

  • Tlbritt

    First time, long time. And at the risk of sounding arrogant or pretentious, I don’t have anything to say on the topic, but rather about the
    guest, who lost all credibility with me and as a result adversely
    affected my opinion of this show in particular and of NPR in general.

    Trudy Rubin just said she had been in Israel recently, meeting with “heads of… whatever.” I think she attempted to clarify this much later with the phrase “heads of Israelis security,” but I’m not sure.

    The point is, I have never heard any so-called expert on NPR sound so unprofessional. After her “heads of… whatever” comment, I listened closely in amazement, and she only further confirmed my disappointment. I found myself begging the facilitator to cut her off, to shut her up, to at least interject a question, but she was allowed to just go on and on and on. Whatever the content of her message, it was completely lost by the blah-blah-blah. Sorry if this critique sounds sexist because she happens to be a woman, but please… Mr. Ashbrook, some intervention, please, to preserve the value of your product.

    • Tlbritt

      Just realized that Mr. Ashbrook has a guest host today, too. My apologies, Mr. Ashbrook.

  • Tina

    So sad about Anthony Shadid (sp?).  I thank him for his years of work and send best wishes to his family and to those who knew him.  

    • Hidan

       very sad,

      my wishes go out to his family.

  • Tina

    I hope and pray that Whitney Houston’s non-musical legacy might be to help kids and young people decide to refrain from the use of substances that can take away all their natural talents.  “Suggesting” that lives be driven by creativity and thru expressing one’s natural talents rather than by substance abuse:  I hope that that is the gift she left.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Whitney Houston could be the final example needed to make them think?   Yes, I hope so too!

  • Terry Tree Tree

    Jeremy Lin will convince coaches and scouts, to actually do their job, instead of remaining bigoted, and focused on ‘super-stars’, or those with PR flacks?

  • Anonymous

    The Farce-Hole Gets Deeper: Obama’s “Robo-Settlement For Votes” Cost To Taxpayers: $40 Billion

    Plunging deeper into the farce-hole, the FT reports tonight that Obama’s foreclosure settlement with the banks over their improper seizure of tax-paying US citizens’ homes will in fact be subsidized by those very same US taxpayers. It is a hidden clause (that has not been made public yet) that allows the banks to count future loan modifications under the $30bn (taxpayer funded) HAMP initiative towards their $35bn agreement to restructure obligations under the new settlement. 

    http://www.zerohedge.com

  • Anonymous

    Congress finally reached an agreement Thursday to extend the payroll tax “holiday” for the rest of 2012 and will likely vote on it today. The cut hasn’t helped the economy much, but at least neither party can be accused of raising taxes on the middle class in an election year.

  • Anonymous

    Obama’s “compromise” on insurance and contraception is nothing of the sort. The ObamaCare mandate still stands for religious institutions to provide health insurance that covers contraceptives (including abortifacients), but they don’t have to pay for that part — the insurance companies do. Either he’s not smart or he thinks we’re not, because that isn’t how things work in the real world. That’s why the Catholic Church and others have rightly rejected his attempt to pull a fast one.

    • Anonymous

      How things work in the real world is an interesting defense of religion.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Why hasn’t the Catholic church rightly rejected the Child-Raping priests, and the clergy that ENABLE them?

    • Hidan

       oh no,

      What can we do to stop this tyranny from obama?How dare he allow women to use birth control and since over 90% of Catholic women use birth control is an great sign that they support the churches ban on Birth Control.

      Besides the leaders complaining are most likely the ones are are never going to be in the Situation to need it.

      • Gregg

        90% of atheist believe in Karma, what’s your point? Now one is disallowing contraception.

        • Hidan

          No atheist is calling for banning Karma for others while engaging in it themselves  so you example is moot.

          • Anonymous

            No Catholics or politicians are calling for banning contraception either! LOL

          • TFRX

            No, their fee-fees are hurt because they’ve been following this law for over a decade, but now there’s a black Democrat in the White House.

      • Anonymous

        First, your comment is based on a myth, or a very bad poll.  Please red the facts on the problems with the only pull to suport your claims.

        http://www.glennbeck.com/content/blog/stu/no-98-of-catholics-do-not-use-contraception/

        • Roy Mac

          Possibly.  The poll being quoted in most media says 98%.  When did you get keyboard rights back?

        • Anonymous

             The fact that you rely on anything to do with Beck as your source of information certainly explains a lot

      • TFRX

        It gets stranger. There are leaders of the Catholic faith who get on TV and are being thoroughly pimped by the propaganda press on the right
        (and therefore our helpless “librul media”.) Really. If you go to Fox News, it’s a parade of them.

        Conversely, there are many other Catholic groups fine with Obama’s position. But good luck seeing them as part of the narrative.

        You and I at least can figure out something’s missing from the conversation. Brandstad, not so much.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        The leaders that are complaining are most likely to cause a NEED for contraceptives?  With lies?  False promises?  Rape? 

    • Anonymous

      Funny how this kind of law has been on the books in a lot of states for 10 years or more and the Catholic church has not said a thing until now. Massachusetts, and New Hampshire to name two.

      • mary elizabeth

        It is the law in MA, yet the Boston Cardinal sent a letter to all Masses that the government is taking away religous freedom.  Why now?  Because the Catholic Bishops are an arm of the Repub Party and can’t wait to get Obama out so they can get someone in they can control.
        They supported W over Kerry.  He dared to think for himself.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Trying to take attention off perverted priests and clergy?

    • TFRX

      Too bad the Bush Regime’s Department of Justice didn’t go after this. It’s been law since the EEOC decision in 2000.

      Even John Ashcroft said “We’re fine with this decision”. Let’s see: Believe Branny, or something John Ashcroft didn’t even bother fighting?

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Employers paying for contraceptives law passed in 1978?

  • Anonymous

    CBO: Longest Period of High Unemployment Since Great Depression

    Thank you Obama for doing your best!

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      He inherited the problem my friend.

      • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

        Do not confuse these fools with facts.

      • Gregg

        How long can you cling to that?

        • Anonymous

           Anyone who thinks any presidential administration, Republican or Democrat can, in just three years, engineer a  recovery from the worst economic upheaval in seventy years is either extremely naive or extremely stupid.

          • Anonymous

            Then how did Ronald Reagan do it?

          • Anonymous

             What don’t you understand about the term “worst economic upheaval in seventy years?” While Reagan did face a bad economic situation, it paled in comparison to the mess confronting Obama in 2009. Remember the term “MELTDOWN?” You should. We heard it used every day for the last six months of the Bush administration. But, gosh, that’s one of those inconvenient truths you folks love to ignore. As are the multiple tax hikes and budget deficits of the Reagan era. I’m sure those tax hikes might have helped a little. And deficit spending? Oh, my.

          • Anonymous

            You must not have lived through the begining of Reagans term.  It was also a meltdown.  He was handed a stagnant economy with lots of people out of work, surging interest rates, a cold war with the communists. 

            People actually had to pay up to 20% interest on home and car loans!

            You should read a little about it!

          • Anonymous

             Feel free to delude yourself into thinking that the economic state of 1981 was anywhere near as bad as that of 2009. We’ll simply bleat back and forth over that until we’re left with one of those silly one column comments. So, now you can tell me if you think reagan’s tax hikes and deficit spending may have played a role in the economy of the eighties. But I’m sure I already know the answer.

          • Anonymous

            Reagan made our country the best place in the world to be! 

            During the summer of 1981 the central focus of policy debate was on the Economic Recovery Tax Act (ERTA) of 1981, the Reagan tax cuts. The core of this proposal was a version of the Kemp-Roth bill providing a 25 percent across-the-board cut in personal marginal tax rates. By reducing marginal tax rates and improving economic incentives, ERTA would increase the flow of resources into production, boosting economic growth. Opponents used static revenue projections to argue that ERTA would be a giveaway to the rich because their tax payments would fall.
                  The criticism that the tax payments of the rich would fall under ERTA was based on a static conception of human behavior. As a 1982 JEC study pointed out,[1] similar across-the-board tax cuts had been implemented in the 1920s as the Mellon tax cuts, and in the 1960s as the Kennedy tax cuts. In both cases the reduction of high marginal tax rates actually increased tax payments by “the rich,” also increasing their share of total individual income taxes paid. Unfortunately, estimates of ERTA by the Democrat-controlled CBO continued to show falling tax payment by upper income taxpayers, even after actual IRS data had become available showing a surge of income tax payments by affluent taxpayers.
                  Given the current interest in tax reform and tax relief, a review of the effects of the Reagan tax cuts on taxpayer behavior and tax burden provides useful information. During the 1980s ERTA had reduced personal tax rates by about 25 percent, while the Tax Reform Act of 1986 chopped them yet again.

            http://www.house.gov

          • Roy Mac

            The reasons ERTA and TEFRA worked was because they concentrated on getting money into the hands of consumers and businesses.  Those pieces of legilation  were passed in Democratic congresses thanks to the cooperation of people like, oh, say, Tip O’Neill and Dan Rostenkowsky.  And, btw, don’t tell me to read history, my friend–I frigging LIVED it!

          • Anonymous

            He raised taxes 11 times.

          • Roy Mac

            He didn’t.  You’re entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts.

          • Anonymous

            You are an idiot if you think the economy at the end of Carters term was better than at the end of any of Reagans terms!

            That is a FACT

          • Roy Mac

            YOU are an idiot if you think Reagan “did it” without the cooperation of a Democratic congress.  Cooperation from congress has not been forthcoming from the hate-spewing teabaggers and talibangelists.

          • Anonymous

            You have pointed out a great differnece between Reagan and Obama.  Reagan was a centrist and could unite with the opposing party unlike the Progressive extremist Obama.  Obama is so far left that he couldn’t even get a single democrat to vote for his only proposed budget since entering office!

          • TFRX

            It must be nice to have been a President with an adult Congress. Today’s GOP WATBs would filibuster ObamaIce if they were stuck in DeathValley. And they’re already on record as saying they don’t want any economic good news before election day.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            talibangelists?  I LIKE that, can I use it?

          • Roy Mac

            A bon mot from me to you.

          • Anonymous

             Maybe he’s Karl Rove?

          • Anonymous

             For two days, I’ve been asking for a conservative republican on this forum to address Ronald Reagan’s multiple tax increases and budget deficits, and if either helped him with the 1980′s economy. Since taxes and deficit spending are giant Republican no-nos, I’ve also been waiting for just one conservative thinker to express their disdain for Reagan’s terrible, liberal economic policies. Not a peep. Not a single peep. What a bunch of phonies.

          • Anonymous

             Silly of me to have left out Reagan’s terrible bailout of Chrysler, for which Barack Obama would surely be criticized, had he done the same. Oh,….. wait?

          • TFRX

            Yep, the oil glut of the early 80s had nothing to do with it.

          • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

            He didn’t and you are delusional as most in others in your party. All you preach are right wing Republican talking points, lies and myth.

          • Alan in NH

            I recall a recession that began in 1988 or thereabouts and ran for a couple of years, devastating real estate values and construction in New England. Did Reagan have anything to do with that?

          • ExperimentsInReason

            He raised taxes.

          • LarrySummers2012

            Quite true, but one can certainly disagree with the tactics and political philosophy being used to “engineer” things, on empirical historical grounds.

          • Anonymous

             Absolutely. But what many people in this forum fail to admit is, every presidential administration in our lifetimes has tried to “engineer” the economy. The contention that it’s an invention of the Obama administration is specious nonsense.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

            thank you right on the money.

          • TomK in Boston

            “Think” is not a word to use in conjunction with the far right. They don’t understand or care about economics, they just want something to hang their hate on.

        • Anonymous

           Sorry, Gregg. I meant that for B.S. , above.

      • Anonymous

        So you would also say Ronald Reagan also inherited the “Longest Period of High Unemployment Since Great Depression” from Carter!?!?  Look how much better Reagan did with the economy than Obama!

    • TFRX

      You comment has been put on anonymous hold and will not be posted until 60% of the panel approves.

    • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

      Another Republican AMNESIAC. Thank your pal Bush and the neoCONS, CEOs and the rest. Obama has been trying to fix the mess these criminals created. Too bad you are blind and dumb to reality.

      • Anonymous

        How has he tried to fix it? By spending a year+ with Democratic control of all branches of government and still unable to pass a budget, or anything to help the economy other than the economy killer we call Obamacare!

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

          I respect your opinion that you don’t like Obama but I don’t respect your history that the mess the Bush administration did for 8 years you blamed them to the current President. you should know better by now who was the real culprit and make Obama a patsy of the Bush economic collapsed.

          • Anonymous

            The fact is Obama inherited the worst recession since the recession at the end of Carters term and then Obama has successfully turned it into the worst recession since the great depression.

          • TomK in Boston

            I know facts don’t matter in your world, but the pattern is very clear in this one: employment was in free fall when President Obama took office, and has been turning around ever since. It would have turned around much faster except, thanks to the TeaOP, we can’t do what we’re supposed to do in these situations, which is spend like crazy. Also, since you guys hate gvt so much, gvt job losses have continued, offsetting gains in the private sector.

            Put this chart in your crack pipe and smoke it. Your side made the crash and you have obstructed every effort to fix it. Why do you hate America so much?

            http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6071/6088811219_7177d24faa_m.jpg

          • Anonymous

            If you like charts, please review this one.

            We must bring you this chart from Calculated Risk which nicely puts this jobs “recovery” into context.
            It shows the percent job losses in post-WWII recessions and recoveries, and nicely shows how slow this current recovery has been compared to every single other one. We’ve dubbed it the scariest jobs chart ever.
            http://www.businessinsider.com/the-scariest-jobs-chart-ever-december-2011-2012-1

          • TomK in Boston

            You don’t have to argue against yourself, it’s too easy already. We all know that your beloved Reaganomics created a very deep hole with powerful downward momentum, and stripped so much wealth from the middle class that there’s not enough demand for a strong recovery without a lot of gvt help, and of course the righties in congress are doing their best to prevent that. 1/3 of the stimulus, which was already too small, converted to useless tax breaks – yuck. Massive layoffs of public sector employees – insane.

            But the fact that you have to ignore remains, despite the best efforts of your side, things started to turn around as soon as Obama entered the WH.  Too bad, huh? I know his second term will be painful for you.

          • Anonymous

            You are right, no matter who the presadent is Economics is economics and recessions end in the typical boom bust cycle of our economic system. 

            Thanks to the repulicans, they allowed the free market system to work as well as Obama would let them.  Obama on the other hand has attempted to thwart the free market principals that made out country great by creating an even more uneven playing field by granting thousands of Obamacare wavers to his friends, funding nonviable buisnisses like Solyndra and proping up faild banks. 

          • Anonymous

            How about the U6 Measure of unemployment.  http://portalseven.com/employment/unemployment_rate_u6.jsp  Just in case you don’t know what that is, it is the unadjusted unemployment rate measured by the government.

          • Anonymous

            9 Charts Showing Just How Bad This Recovery Has BeenRead more: http://www.cfr.org/geoeconomics/quarterly-update-economic-recovery-historical-context/p25774#ixzz1mfzthHTx

          • Gregg

            Oh please! Factor in the shrinking universe. Those numbers don’t mean squat. It’s bad.

            I am concerned at how easily some are fooled.

          • Anonymous

             The recession ended in the summer of 2009, roughly six months after Obama took office. Look it up, and then feel free to ignore another inconvenient truth

          • Anonymous

            The following are 18 statistics that prove that the economy has not improved since Barack Obama became the president of the United States….

            #1 Today there are 88 million working age Americans that are not employed and that are not looking for employment.  That is an all-time record high.

            #2 When Barack Obama was elected, the percentage of unemployed Americans that had been out of work for more than 52 weeks was less than 15%.  Today, it is above 30%.

            #3 There are 1.2 million fewer jobs in America today than there were when Barack Obama was inaugurated.

            #4 When Barack Obama first took office, the number of “long-term unemployed workers” in the United States was approximately 2.6 million.  Today, that numberis sitting at 5.6 million.

            #5 The average duration of unemployment in the United States is hovering close to an all-time record high.

            #6 During the Obama administration, worker health insurance costs have risenby 23 percent.

            #7 Since Barack Obama has been president, the average price of a gallon of gasoline in the United States has increased by 90 percent.

            #8 Since Barack Obama has been president, home values in the United States have declined by another 13 percent.

            #9 Under Barack Obama, new home sales in the U.S. set a brand new all-time record low in 2009, they set a brand new all-time record low again in 2010, and they set a brand new all-time record low once again during 2011.

            #10 Since Barack Obama took office, the number of Americans living in poverty has risen by more than 6 million.

            #11 Since Barack Obama entered the White House, the number of Americans on food stamps has increased from 32 million to 46 million.

            #12 The amount of money that the federal government gives directly to Americans has increased by 32 percent since Barack Obama entered the White House.

            #13 According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the percentage of Americans living in “extreme poverty” is now sitting at an all-time high.

            #14 When Barack Obama first took office, an ounce of gold was going for about $850.  Today an ounce of gold costs more than $1700 an ounce.

            #15 Since Barack Obama became president, the size of the U.S. national debt has increased by 44 percent.

            #16 During Barack Obama’s first two years in office, the U.S. government added more to the U.S. national debt than the first 100 U.S. Congresses combined.

            #17 During the Obama administration, the U.S. government has accumulated more debt than it did from the time that George Washington took office to the time that Bill Clinton took office.

            #18 The U.S. national debt has been increasing by an average of more than 4 billion dollars per day since the beginning of the Obama administration.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Thanks for acknowledging that the recession was there, when President Obama took office!  So many of his detractors ignore this little detail?

          • Anonymous

             Thank you for admitting that the Bush administration left us with the worst recession since Jimmy Carter’s presidency, twenty eight years earlier. Finally, an honest assessment Republican failure.

        • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

          Obamacare…the standard, and equally stupid, Republican code. More nonsense from you and your party of clowns.

        • ExperimentsInReason

          How about lending money to the auto industry, which resulted in saving 1 million jobs. And most (all?) of the money has been repaid. This was a good call, no?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

    iOnePoint:

    Payroll Tax cut extended for another year.

    • Anonymous

      Oh GREAT!  I will get another $20 per pay check!

      I think I might go out and buy a new car!

      • Anonymous

         To some people, an extra $86.66 per month makes a huge difference. But we don’t care about them. Do we.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Brandstad only cares about the poor millionaires, that $86 MILLION might help?

          • Anonymous

            Give a man a fish and he is hungry again the next day, teach a man to fish and he will be hungry no more. 

            Taking from one citizen to give to another citizen sure seems to be more like giving away a fish than teaching someone a skill!

        • Anonymous

          If an extra $86.66 per month makes a huge difference to some people, why don’t we give them $500 per month, wouldn’t that be even better!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

    I was right the Syrian President is committing a crime against humanity. Whitney Houston the loser is a bad example for our kids especially for her daughter. Gladiator Santorum is now catching up with Mitt Romney. General Motors gave $7,000 bonuses to its employees.

  • Brett

    Many woman take birth control for medical reasons other than preventing pregnancy. Should we make these cases inclusive in medical coverage? Should we exclude coverage for all mental health treatments because Scientologists are against that? What about excluding coverage for blood transfusions because Seventh Day Adventists are against that? 

    We could probably find more ways to exclude medical coverage based on religious/moral beliefs…in fact, should we get rid of all insurance coverage and just let people have tax-deferred health savings accounts to take care of their health needs (as Santorum suggests). What about everybody from pharmacy techs to janitors using moral arguments so they won’t have to perform the functions of their jobs? What about their rights?

    I have a health savings account. It IS a good idea, but it is woefully inadequate when it comes to life-threatening accidents, life-threatening illnesses, and so on. I just hope I don’t get cancer or get into an accident where I’m hospitalized for six months.    

    • Gregg

      Just wondering, are Scientologists being forced under penalty of law to pay for treatments against their tenets? What do you mean by “exclude medical coverage”? Is someone planning to exclude coverage?

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      Birth Control Pills helps women with their menstrual cycles. I know this because my exgf took pills before.
      It also help women with Acne problems.

      • Anonymous

        That sounds like some life saving medication!  I don’t know why we don’t sell them at every corner store!

        • Terry Tree Tree

          You’re RIGHT, that can be life-saving!

  • U.S. Vet.

    I.A.E.A. Chief praises Iran as a peace seeking country.
    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/226080.html

    Despite that fact, our War-Monger-in Chief, President Obama, is going to take this country to war with Iran.   Why else would he be amassing 100,000 U.S. troops in the Persian Gulf?

    • LarrySummers2012

      I’ll tell ya, that Ron Paul and his Constitutional Declaration of Wars, Civil Liberties and Sound Money crap is such a nut!

    • Roy Mac

      Easy, big guy!  Cheney’s been sequestered (where?  don’t know; an undisclosed location in the Wyoming mountains, I’d guess) ever since the Int’l Court of Justice in The Hague issued its subpeona at the end of 08!  Although–actually–that’s why our troopers are in the desert.

    • Alan in NH

      What if they gave a war, and no one came?

    • ExperimentsInReason

      I don’t understand the ‘war monger in chief’ comment. From my perspective, Obama came into office with the U.S. involved in two wars overseas. After his first 3 years, we are withdrawn from one, and beginning our withdrawal from the second. What am I missing?

      • U.S. Vet.

        It seems like you’ve never heard of President Obama’s “Kinetic Action” (war) in Libya which killed 30,000 Libyan civilians over the Spring of 2011.

        Or perhaps you haven’t heard of the dozens of drone attacks that Obama has launched over Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia which have killed hundreds of innocent civilians.

        P.S.
        Thanks to Obama’s “Kinetic Action” (war) in Libya, a goverment has been installed which has links to Al-Qaeda.

  • TomK in Boston

    Is anyone who remembers 2002 not getting major deja vu re iran? Weapons of mass destruction? Unproven links to terrorist organizations? Corporate media lining up on the side of war? Has anyone said “We don’t want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud” yet?

    Geez, I remember when the north viet motorboats supposedly attacked our destroyers in the gulf of tonkin, “justifying” a mistake that devastated the USA. Will we ever learn? Bin Laden couldn’t have harmed us in his wildest dreams as much as we’ve harmed ourselves with these adventures.

    But hey, as I always say, follow the money. With iraqistan winding down, some weapons makers and contractors will be in tough shape without a new war.

    • Anonymous

      Once I hear Hillary or Bill Clinton say they have Weapons of mass destruction like they did before, I will agree with you!

      • Anonymous

         Neither Bill nor Hillary took us to war over these phantom weapons. Only one doofus was responsible for that.

        • William

          Bill pushed for and got the Iraq Liberation Act passed. It was his center piece of the Clinton Doctrine. That sealed our fate.

          • TFRX

            Yep. And no politician was called “traitor” for standing up to Shrub. Everybody on the proper Congressional committees got a look at the pertinent intelligence. Bush II’s regime never outed a covert agent. We were never told to “watch what you think, watch what you say”.

            Your politeness isn’t quite the cover for your ignorance you think it is.

          • Anonymous

            Why do these clowns walk right into it. His claim that Bush’s war can be blamed on the previous administration sets a lovely precedent for us crazy lefties. Now we can blame Obama’s economic mess on the previous administration. Unless, of course, whining about the previous president’s actions is valid only for Republican’s.

          • Anonymous

             I didn’t realize Bush was in such thrall to the “Clinton Doctrine.” What a nice little re-write.

          • TomK in Boston

            The far right reality distortion field is really something to behold. Clinton’s invasion of iraq….you must have to go pretty deep into the wingnut blogosphere to find that one.

          • Gregg

            “If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our
            purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by
            Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program.” -Bill Clinton 1998Iraq Liberation Act of 1998

          • Anonymous

             Thanks for finally admitting that the economic mess of today is George Bush’s fault.

          • Gregg

             
            Huh?

          • Anonymous

            You’re feeble attempt at laying the blame for the invasion of Iraq on something  from Clinton’s administration, five years earlier, must mean you believe that I can lay the blame for today’s economy at the feet of the Bush administration five years earlier. If not, please explain your logic.

          • Gregg

             “Must mean”? First, that’s crazy. Second I didn’t lay blame on anyone. I
            just pointed out it was Clinton that made regime change in Iraq U.S.
            policy. I also outed the lie that Bush lied about WMD. You can’t
            logically hold that view unless you say all these lied to. They were all
            going an the best info available. It’s impossible to lie without
            knowing it.

            http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp

          • Anonymous

            I’m not going to have the same unproductive debate you and I had weeks ago on the Iraq issue. That’s irrelevant. But the implication that you and William make, that the Bush administration made it’s decisions concerning Iraq based on Clinton era policies is foolish. If  you can claim that Bush’s actions were somehow made necessary because of Clinton’s actions, please explain to me how Obama’s actions cannot possibly be necessary because of Bush’s actions.

          • Zero

             I keep on forgetting that everything bad that happened between 2001-2008 was Clinton’s fault.  Thanks for reminding me! 

          • Anonymous

             You’re confused, my friend. Only Republicans are allowed to believe that the actions of the previous administration can have an effect on the challenges facing the current presidency. If a Democrat makes a similar claim, he’s “whining.” Silly you.

          • TFRX

            (I’m sure Zero’s going the full deadpan there.)

    • Zero

      At least the ambiguous phrase “Weapons of Mass Destruction” will never again be part of a politician’s lexicon.  The rhetoric (or propaganda) has to be a little more specific with the word “nuke,” but it sounds uncanny. 

      Nonetheless, I hope people hear that republicans are beating their war-drums…people with an IQ above 88 know we don’t need to lower taxes on the rich and pay for another war.  

    • Fredlinskip

       Don’t forget about those “mobile chemical factories” rolling all around Iraq. My personal favorite was part of Powell’s UN speech, playing an intercepted conversation. something to effect of: “Hey Assad, inspectors are coming- hide the stuff”
        
      And don’t forget, ’02, ’04, and ’06 elections were all about the “War”.

  • Anonymous

    I heard an Israeli official criticizing Iran for trying to resurrect the ancient Persian empire.  How is that different from Israel using its ancient boundaries to define what it should look like now?  Why is the ancient status of one a basis for today’s legitimate claim but not the others?

  • http://www.ghostfreeman.net Cameron Kilgore

    Jack, I am very disappointed in you. Lumping those of us who support internet freedoms in with the “Evil Chinese IP-stealing strawman?” Shame on you and WBUR for trotting that out and painting the broadest brush.

    This won’t be forgotten.

  • Anonymous

    Today marks the anniversary of one of the most unfortunate pieces of legislation to be signed by President Obama. Three years ago, the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, later known as Obama’s Stimulus package, became the law of the land.

    The American people were told this package would save and create jobs, but the simple fact is that it was the start of a long pattern of wasteful spending from a President who has little regard for fiscal discipline, and feels entitled to pick winners and losers in the marketplace.

    Since 2009, the Obama Administration has continued this trend of reckless and irresponsible spending. Last week, President Obama released his budget for the fiscal year 2013. The budget calls for $1.9 trillion in higher taxes while the economy struggles to regain its footing. Raising taxes only gives politicians more money to spend, undermining efforts to control federal spending. Even with all these new taxes, the President foresees a $1.3 trillion deficit for this year, the fourth straight year with a trillion-dollar deficit.

    • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

      AMNESIAC propaganda!

    • Zero

      America would have been so much better with GDP contracting at 8%….

    • Gregg

      The budget is a disgrace. It’s a Joke. It is not meant to be passed it’s a propaganda tool. The last Obama budget was voted down 97-0 in the Senate. Obama’s anemic leadership has yet to produce a budget. Geitner admits entitlements are not even addressed and are still unsustainable. What’s that? There’s more money for the Volt! This is nuts.

      • Jean0609

        Presidential budgets are always political instruments.  They have been since the beginning.  They are a wishlist, a statement of the President’s agenda and priorities.  Congress can and always has addressed it as they chose.

        • Gregg

          When was the last time a President’ budget was defeated 97-0?

    • Roy Mac

      It is the House’s responsibility to furnish a budget, not the Executive branch’s.

      • Anonymous

        True, but it is the Presadents responsibility to lead the government and the country.  if he was a leader, he wouldn’t sign any bills without having a budget signed first, like all of his predicessors? 

        Why can’t he lead?

        Why cant he follow the precedent of all prior presadents?

  • Ron Bick

    Jack Beatty’s comments related to Israeli policy in regard to Iran’s nuclear enrichment program were misleading.  He stated that Israel was committed to preventing any Arab country from obtaining nuclear weapons.  It would have been more accurate to describe Israel’s policy as aimed at preventing countries which threaten Israeli’s existence from obtaining nuclear weapons.  As Mr Beatty is aware, Iran is not an Arab nation, and it has directly stated its desire to see the destruction of the state of Israel.  It might have been more reasonable to suggest that Israel was contemplating action to prevent a country which has stated its desire to see the destruction of Israel from acting on that stated desire.

  • ExperimentsInReason

    I only listened to 10 minutes of tonight’s panel, but felt that they were a bit fast and loose with definitions and interpretations. For example, since when do Muslim people have to be referred to as “Muslim extremists”? Uiger’s living in Western China who have been trying to obtain their independence from China (just like Tibetans) for generations were labeled as such by one of your panelists. What makes them “extreme”? Another panelist conflated Iranians with Arabs. Persians, of course, are not Arabs. And finally, a panelist put forward Israel’s claims that Iranians trying to kill Israelis are terrorists while Israelis are assassinating Iranian scientists (of course, there is no proof for this, but does anyone really doubt who is carrying out these assassinations?). I was disappointed that nobody challenged these statements and interpretations. Let’s engage the habit of critical inquiry before we find ourselves blindly marching towards war (again), eh?

  • Zero

    I found this pretty interesting this week:

    From http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/cnn-poll-republicans-want-obamas-policies-to-fail/2011/10/18/gIQAL0VbuL_blog.html

    “…when Republicans are then asked about some of the Obama policy ideas
    themselves — without Obama’s name attached to them — majorities support them.

    The only two Obama ideas polled that are opposed by Republicans are
    an increase of unemployment benefits and tax hikes on those over
    $250,000. Meanwhile, 58 percent of Republicans support cutting the
    payroll tax for all workers; 63 percent of Republicans support federal
    aid to states to hire teachers and first responders; 56 percent support
    federal spending on infrastructure; and 56 percent of Republicans
    support raising taxes on millionaires.”

    Also, CBS reports that 51% of republicans support tax hikes on millionaires.

    What a bunch of turncoat commies!

    • Gregg

      Millionaires or 200K? See how they fool ya’?

      • Zero

         I know exactly what it said Gregg.  So are you one of the 51% who think it is okay to raise taxes on millionaires?  …Because your ‘representative’ politicians don’t think so. 

        • Gregg

          I’m more in the Buffet camp who says raise taxes on those making over $200 million. Obama likes to conflate “millionaires and billionaires” with couple hundred thousandaires.

    • Jean0609

      The Republican candidates are in an impossible situation.  There is no enthusiasm this year beyond their fanatical base, which has lost its collective mind.  So they each try to out-conservative the other, even tho the vast majority of voters are some degree of moderate and their current soundbites are going to kill them in the actual election.

      • Zero

        The majority of republican voters don’t know what they believe–most of them are rural Southerners who vote against their economic interests because the Republican Party paints itself on the side of God and not-doing-anything-for-black-people.

        That’s my take.

        • Gregg

          That’s a sick take… with all due respect.

    • Still Here

      Everybody is for well-designed, efficiency-benefiting infrastructure projects not make-work projects for union slugs.

      • Zero

         What is this “union slugs” stuff?  We have a large disparity of wages in this country, so how are the unions wrecking things?  You know, in communism, there are no unions….

        Seriously, you republicans always talk about flatter taxes, well, that kind of thing is actually possible if there is strong labor representation (e.g., the CEO doesn’t make a vast amount more money than the mail room workers–see Japan).

        • Gregg

          “Slugs” is fine but “thugs” works better. Remember Kenneth Gladney?

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXBOgPCh9w

          Examples are legion.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJE5MqesHlw

          • TFRX

            I remember Kenneth Gladney, but with your head in your Foxhole, your long-term memory is no more reliable
            than your immediate cognition of something.

          • Anonymous

             Tell Gregg you need “context.”

          • Gregg

            “Union thugs” is accurate.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        CEOs get $MILLIONS in salaries, benefits, and perqs, then get BONE-USes of $MILLIONS, to bankrupt the company they were hired to ‘lead’ them! 
           WHO IS THE SLUG?

  • Gregg

    Obama’s new budget raises the subsidy for Volt’s to $10,000. That average income of Volt owners is $170,000. I make considerably less than that and drive a beat up ’97 pick-up. Why should I have to subsidize Volts? Is that helping the economy? Is it saving the planet?

    • Anonymous

       Please forgive me for continuing our conversation from below, way up here. We’re simply running out of room. But, I’ve decided, what the Hell. Let’s talk About Iraq after all.      “We know they have these weapons, and we know where they are.” -  Donald Rumsfeld       Maybe you can tell me how it’s possible to know where non-existent weapons are.

      • Gregg

        Maybe you can tell me how Hussein gassed the Kurds with WMD that did not exist. Or how we removed 500 metric tons of yellowcake that did not exist.

        I gave you a few of many quotes. Here’s video if you like:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwqh4wQPoQk

        So the question is simple, did these people lie? If you want to say no but Bush did then you’ve jumped the shark and there really is no sense in debating it… if there is any to begin with.

        Or the bonus question, did Clinton make regime change in Iraq policy or not? Of Course he did.

        • nj

          Poor Greggg, trying to justify and excuse the lies and deceit by BushCo. His Butt Bureau of Partisan Disinformation doesn’t know how to read a calendar.

          Gas-weapons components and other aid and subsidy was given to Iraq by one Greggg’s GOP heroes, Ronnie Raygun.

          Saddam was our thug at the time. 

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaP7ZrmkcuU

          Fast forward, and we have Powell—before he sold out and caved to the BushCo criminals and lied in the presentation to the UN—acknowledging that the sanctions had worked, and Hussein has no WMD:

          “We have been able to keep weapons from going into Iraq. We have been able to keep the sanctions in place to the extent that items that might support weapons of mass destruction development have had some controls on them…it’s been quite a success for ten years.”

          —Secretary of State Colin Powell, interview with “Face the Nation,” 2/11/01

          Powell aides later admitted what any informed person knew:

          http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/14/60II/main577975.shtml

          “Thursday marks one year since Secretary Powell’s U.N. speech. In that time, Thielmann has come to his own conclusion about the presentation. He believes the decision to go to war was made – and intelligence was interpreted to fit that conclusion.”

          Bush and Cheney were an f*ing disaster for the country. 

          • Anonymous

            Don’t be so mean. Nancy Pelosi, Bill clinton, Howard Dean, and Sandy Berger forced poor George to go to war. Just ask Gregg. And I wonder when Powell was lying. Was it when he made this statement, or was it when he stated the exact opposite a couple years later at the U.N.?

          • Gregg

            Hussein kicked the inspectors out in 1998, I don’t know how Powell could say that with authority 3 years later.  I’d like to hear the context. 

            What did he admit in the CBS piece? In hindsight he might IF he had known thought differently. I don’t even know what your point is all i am saying is the narrative is not accurate.

          • Anonymous

            If you don’t know how Powell could have said THAT with any authority, please explain how he could have given his pathetic testimony to the U.N., two years later.

          • nj

            With Greggg, it’s hard to know exactly what combination of blind, rabid partisanship; willful  ignorance; or general dull-wttedness contributes to these mind-numbingly dumb and vacuous posts, riddled with layers of misinformation.

            Hussein didn’t “kick out” the inspectors.

            [[ Ritter was asked if Hussein “kicked out” the UNSCOM inspection team in 1998. “No,” Ritter said. “The US government ordered them out two days before the US started Operation Desert Fox, bombing over 100 targets that were identified using information provided by the UN inspection team. Iraq understandably would not want them back. Yet Iraq is willing now.” ]]

            http://baltimorechronicle.com/ritter_sep02.html

            http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1123

            There were no f*ing WMD when BushCo invaded. The war was based on deceit and misinformation. That’s something Greggg should be able to relate to

          • Gregg

            Dude I am very familiar with chapter and verse about the inspector saga in 1998. He kicked them out and any semantic argument doesn’t change that.

          • Anonymous

             You have yet to explain the Secretary of States two sets of completely contradictory statements, made a mere two years apart. One of them was a lie. You keep claiming there’s no evidence of lying and continually accuse people of ignoring facts. But, if you need “context” to understand Powell’s simple, declarative statements, I can get my ten year old nephew you to text you what the bigger words mean.

          • Gregg

            Hindsight is 20/20. Powell’s a good man not a liar.

          • Anonymous

            That comment explains a lot.

          • Anonymous

             In order to claim you’re familiar with something, you have to actually “be” familiar with it.

          • Gregg

            It’s a matter of record. Do you think I haven’t heard this argument before? 

          • Anonymous

            I’m sure you’ve heard it. then you ignored the truth

          • Anonymous

             Maybe you can squeeze in a class on late twentieth century history with that U.S. 101 I recommended.

        • Anonymous

           I don’t care what any of “these people” said. Claiming that Clinton’s Iraq policy forced Bush to go to war is absurd. Oh, that bully Bill.    Only one man was the Commander in Chief. Only one administration beat the war drums for a year. And as Deulfer clearly stated , Hussein’s weapons programs had been defunct for years. Please remember, this man was the administration’s post-war weapons inspector. I guess he must have been a Democrat. Citing Husseins possession of weapons in 1988, and then deciding he must still have them in 2003, despite the failure of weapons inspectors to find any, is another fantastic leap. They must have been Democrats, too. The bottom line is, all you supporters of the most colossal foreign policy blunder since Viet Nam insist on claiming that it was “everyone’s” fault, as if the Bush administration was made up of a bunch of powerless dolts, bullied into action by the rest of the country. How about manning up and taking responsibility for what one does,  without trying to claim it had anything to do with a former president who’s been out of office for two years. You know, sort of like what you expect from Obama. And again, I reiterate. If the Bush administration can claim that any action it took while in office was made necessary by the policies of the previous administration, then Barack Obama must have as legitimate a claim to do the same. If not, why not?   

          • Gregg

            You lost me at the first sentence about a claim I didn’t make. Bush took us to war but it was a war that was going to be fought. Nobody but Hussein and a feckless UN forced him. Algore would have gone too.

            My questions regarding the honesty of debate were easy ones. So I’ll mark you down as: 1) Yes, they all lied, and 2) Yes, It was Clinton’s conclusion, codified into legislation, threat regime change in Iraq was the only prudent action. At least that way your argument is somewhat consistent.

            Are you really sticking with the notion Bush policy is still influencing the economy despite Obama’s best efforts 3 years in?

          • TFRX

            Keep snorting that yellowcake and sucking on those refined aluminum tubes, G.

          • Gregg

            550 metric tons of yellow cake were removed from Iraq by our special forces. You may have missed it.

          • nj

            More jackassery from the flaming Bush apologist.

            “The yellowcake removed from Iraq - which was not the same yellowcake that President George W. Bush claimed, in a now discredited section of his 2003 State of the Union address, that Saddam was trying to purchase in Africa – could be used in an early stage of the nuclear fuel cycle. Only after intensive processing would it become low-enriched uranium, which could fuel reactors producing power. Highly enriched uranium can be used in nuclear bombs.

            http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/07/world/africa/07iht-iraq.4.14301928.html

          • Gregg

            You really are uninformed. Google is dangerous. Examine the infamous 16 word and you will find Bush made no such claim. But the British did and stand by those words to this day. Lo and behold.

          • Anonymous

            Would this be one of those semantic arguments you so despise?

          • Gregg

            No, it’s plain english.

          • Anonymous

             Your pathetic insistence that anyone other than the Bush folks bears any responsibility for the Iraq invasion is exactly that, PATHETIC. So much for manning up.  And if you can’t understand the premise that claiming Clinton, a president who had been out of office for two years, bears any responsibility whatsoever for Bush’s war, while refusing to allow the possibility that Obama”s predecessor might bear some of the same kind of responsibility, then you’re simply a hopelessly partisan ideologue.   I’d like to address your ridiculous claim that anyone other than Bush and his insane neo-con friends would have started this war, but I have to stop laughing first.

          • Gregg

            It was Bush’s war and history will treat him kindly. Why do you put words in my mouth?

            Also, Democrats were very concerned about WMD, were they not? Bill Clinton said change regimes, it’s true even if it destroys your world view.

          • Anonymous

            Treat him kindly?  I give up??????

          • Gregg

            Yes, especially if this “Arab Spring” thing works out.

      • Fredlinskip

         Hey FTF,
        I haven’t been an observer to this comments page for that long, but long enough to know that when  attempting to “debate” Gregg, there are times when facts no longer matter. At a certain point, it becomes all about changing the subjects and avoiding the facts.
        Don’t beat yourself up. Life’s too short.
        Keep in mind that your talking to someone who insists that Fox “News” and Rush are the most “fair and balanced ” news sources available to Americans today.

        • Anonymous

           Thank’s for the calming words. I was afraid I might be going insane or something.

        • Gregg

          Fact: Bill Clinton made regime change US policy with “The Iraq Liberation Act of 1998″

          Fact: Democrats were just as vocal about Husseins WMD as Republicans.

          Fact: Hussein gasssed the Kurds with WMD he evidently didn’t have.

          Fact: Our special forces removed 500 metric tons of yellow cake that evidently didn’t exist.

          Have I made any other assertions on this thread? No. Are they “facts” or not? Yes. Who is avoiding them?

          How on God’s green earth is honest debate possible if these facts are ignored? At least make an attempt to refute them… which is impossible. YOU WILL NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS PARAGRAPH BECAUSE YOUR IDEOLOGY WILL NOT ALLOW YOU.

          Meanwhile FTH says I claim things I clearly haven’t claimed and that I am insisting something I don’t insist. And you in a bizarre fit of liberal camaraderie inject the Fox/Rush monster right out of the freakin’ blue in the name of some ad hominem insult. You can’t make this stuff up. Thank you for the belly laugh.

          • Anonymous

            Fact:  Trying to claim that the policies of a previous president somehow force the hand of a different president, five years, later is STUPID. This would imply that Romny or Santorum, should they win the Whitehouse, will have to take actions based on Barack Obama’s policies. As I said, STUPID.                Fact: Trying to justify Bush’s foolish invasion of Iraq on the basis of the beliefs of a bunch of people who were just as wrong as him is also STUPID. I didn’t realize that Democratic opinion about anything was such a driving force behind the Bush administration’s decision making machine. I thought Republicans considered democrats to be full of crap? What a bunch of whimps they must have been.                                     Fact: The diversionary tactic of trying to imply that anyone, anywhere, ever claimed that Hussein never had WMD is equally STUPID. your decision to completely ignore the Bush administration’s own post-war assesment of the WMD situation since the first gulf war is, what shall I say?….STUPID.               Fact: While I will admit, I am not familiar with your yellowcake assertions, the fact that yellowcake is not a nuclear weapon seems to be lost on you. How many other countries shall we attack because they posses fissionable materials?             I find your continued attempts at pretending we were “all” responsible for the Iraq fiasco to be childish. If you think history will remember Bush kindly, but you can’t even own up to his own responsibility for the mess in Iraq, that’s just sad.                                  And, again, try to understand this very simple point, which I could make a ten year old understand. If you can believe Bill Clinton’s policies effected the Bush administration’s actions, while failing to grant the same privilege to Obama as it relates to the economic mess left to him, then you’re exactly what I said earlier, a hopelessly partisan Ideologue.

          • Gregg

            Your killing me dude. Your premise is so whacked. Of course Bush’s economy affected Obama’s. Not 3 years in though. Obama owns it and I’m happy to sit back and let you flounder on that one. Keep your head in the sand.

            Feel free to live in the shallow, spoon-fed, sound-byte world that says Bush lied people died. It’s a little deeper than that for those interested in serious analysis. It wasn’t Democrats or Republicans (or a conspiracy by Cheney and Wolfowitz), it was the world in agreement and the cowboy in charge.

          • Anonymous

            I understand. A Clinton policy from FIVE years earlier is  relevant, but Bush policies from Three years earlier aren’t. And the world in agreement? Would that be the mighty “Coalition of the Willing?” Your funny.

          • Gregg

            How many times do I have to write Bush’s economy was relevant? But not now, Obama has ruined  everything. Continuing to blame Bush is folly. I can’t believe you’re sticking with it.

            By world, I meant 16 UN resolutions over 12 years culminating with the 17th passed unanimously in the security council. But thank for pointing out the “coalition of the willing”. For some reason those 35 or so nations are ignored when the “unilateral” claim is made. at least you haven’t made that one… yet.

          • Anonymous

            I must have missed those war resolutions.

          • Anonymous

             This bit of absurdity almost passed me by. “Obama has ruined everything.” This is easily the most ridiculous statement I’ve seen in the two months I’ve been visiting this site. Even more absurd than anything the Dink has posted.

          • Anonymous

             Imagine that. George Bush, Father of the Arab Spring. I wonder if any Arabs had anything to do with that.

          • nj

            Didn’t you see all those protesters holding banners and signs with pictures of Bush, thanking him for inspiring them?

          • Anonymous

            No, No. You’re wrong. Gregg is going to tell us they were inspired by that wonderful beacon of Democracy, Iraq. You know. The one with weekly bombings and a Prime Minister who files criminal charges against the vice-president on the first day after the U.S. forces leave. Who wouldn’t want to emulate such an inspiring place?

          • Gregg

            It was the purple fingers.

          • nj

            Denser than a Yukon asphalt road in the middle of a dark, January night, Greggg continues belching disinformational dreck.

            Greggg assumes “regime change” automatically endorses a violent invasion as the means to achieve it. Show us where Clinton advocated for invasion. Clinton supported regime change in Havana. Why didn’t he invade Cuba? British law invalidated regime change as a justification for invading another country. Bad news for Blair, Bush, and their apologists like Greggg.

            Greggg continues to refer to chemical weapons that were in play more than a decade before the events in question.

            Greggg mentions the removal of the 550 tons of yellowcake as if it is some kind of evidence that Iraq had an imminent nuke weapons program. That’s crap, too: 
            http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/yellowcake.asp

            Watch as smarmy Greggg shifts, deflects, and weasels his way out of admitting he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

          • Gregg

            Just to clarify:

            I didn’t assume anything about regime change I just said it was Clinton who made it policy. I’m right on that, why can’t you admit it? You can still hate Bush.

            Thank you for pointing out Hussein’s long history with WMD. No wonder all those Dems were freaking.

            I never said Hussein’s nuke program was imminent. Did I? But he did have the yellow cake everyone said he didn’t. Did I mention a timeline?

            Oh yea, I know what I’m talking about.

          • Anonymous

             We must learn, Gregg asks for evidence only in order to ignore it. Further down, he characterizes Colin Powell’s diametrically opposite statements about Iraq’s WMD, made a mere TWO years apart, as “errors of hindsight”. He claims no one lied. He’s given evidence of lies. He ignores the evidence he asked for.   He claims that weapons inspectors were kicked out of Iraq, despite the fact that it’s simply not true, and thinks he knows something about it. And he has the balls to accuse anyone else of a narrow world view.

          • nj

            It points to some kind of physiological/psychological disfunction on the cellular level.

            Confirms to me that there are serious issues at play with anyone who can take the likes of Flush Limpballs and Raging Annie Coulter seriously.

          • Gregg

            I love Ann Coulter.

          • Anonymous

             Anne Coulter is so stupid, she thinks the U,S. bombed Egypt during last years uprising. What a dunce.

          • Anonymous

             Coulter’s so dumb, she thinks her “blacks” are better than my “blacks.”

          • Anonymous

             Coulter’s  such an idiot, she thinks Catholics are “perfected” Jews. Oh, those poor imperfect Hebrews.

          • nj

            I rest my case.

          • Modavations

            I had her,She’ssweeeeeeet

          • Gregg

            Either no one lied or everyone lied, that’s all. It’s easy. I say no one you walk the tightrope, and still cannot say it… so you get all hissy. I’m not asking who made the call, it was the cowboy.

            “When I left office, there was a substantial amount of biological and chemical material unaccounted for.” -Bill Clinton on Larry King Live july 2003

            Former President Bill Clinton:President Clinton: “We Have To Defend Our Future From These Predators Of The 21st Century. They Feed On The Free Flow Of Information And Technology. They Actually Take Advantage Of The Freer Movement Of People, Information And Ideas. And They Will Be All The More Lethal If We Allow Them To Build Arsenals Of Nuclear, Chemical And Biological Weapons And The Missiles To Deliver Them. We Simply Cannot Allow That To Happen. There Is No More Clear Example Of This Threat Than Saddam Hussein’s Iraq. His Regime Threatens The Safety Of His People, The Stability Of His Region And The Security Of All The Rest Of Us.” (President Clinton, Remarks To Joint Chiefs Of Staff And Pentagon Staff, 2 /17/98)President Clinton: “Earlier Today I Ordered America’s Armed Forces To Strike Military And Security Targets In Iraq… Their Mission Is To Attack Iraq’s Nuclear, Chemical And Biological Weapons Programs And Its Military Capacity To Threaten Its Neighbors …” (“Text Of Clinton Statement On Iraq Attack,” Agence France Presse, 12/17/98)Former Vice President Al Gore:Gore: “You Know, In 1991, I Was One Of Those Who Put Partisanship Completely Aside And Supported President Bush At That Time In Launching The Gulf War. And In That War, We Saw How Saddam Had Threatened His Neighbors And Was Trying To Get Nuclear Weapons, Chemical Weapons, And Biological Weapons. And We’re Not Going To Allow Him To Succeed.” (CNN’s “Larry King Live,” 12/16/98)Gore: “[I]f You Allow Someone Like Saddam Hussein To Get Nuclear Weapons, Ballistic Missiles, Chemical Weapons, Biological Weapons, How Many People Is He Going To Kill With Such Weapons? He’s Already Demonstrated A Willingness To Use These Weapons …” (CNN’s “Larry King Live,” 12/16/98)Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY):Sen. Clinton: “I Voted For The Iraqi Resolution. I Consider The Prospect Of A Nuclear-Armed Saddam Hussein Who Can Threaten Not Only His Neighbors, But The Stability Of The Region And The World, A Very Serious Threat To The United States.” (Senator Hillary Clinton [D-NY], Press Conference, January 22, 2003)Sen. Clinton: “In The Four Years Since The Inspectors, Intelligence Reports Show That Saddam Hussein Has Worked To Rebuild His Chemical And Biological Weapons Stock, His Missile Delivery Capability, And His Nuclear Program. … It Is Clear, However, That If Left Unchecked, Saddam Hussein Will Continue To Increase His Capability To Wage Biological And Chemical Warfare And Will Keep Trying To Develop Nuclear Weapons.” (Sen. Hillary Clinton, Congressional Record, 10/10/02, p. S10288)Sen. Robert Byrd (D-WV):S “The Last U.N. Weapons Inspectors Left Iraq In October Of 1998. We Are Confident That Saddam Hussein Retains Some Stockpiles Of Chemical And Biological Weapons, And That He Has Since Embarked On A Crash Course To Build Up His Chemical And Biological Warfare Capabilities. Intelligence Reports Indicate That He Is Seeking Nuclear Weapons …” (“Threats And Responses,” The New York Times, 10/4/02)Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA):Pelosi: “Others Have Talked About This Threat That Is Posed By Saddam Hussein. Yes, He Has Chemical Weapons, He Has Biological Weapons, He Is Trying To Get Nuclear Weapons.” (Rep. Nancy Pelosi, Congressional Record, 10/10/02, p. H7777)Sen. John Kerry (D-MA):Sen. Kerry: “The Crisis Is Even More Threatening By Virtue Of The Fact That Iraq Has Developed A Chemical Weapons Capability, And Is Pursuing A Nuclear Weapons Development Program.” (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 10/2/90, p. S14332)Sen. Kerry: “If You Don’t Believe … Saddam Hussein Is A Threat With Nuclear Weapons, Then You Shouldn’t Vote For Me.” (Ronald Brownstein, “On Iraq, Kerry Appears Either Torn Or Shrewd,” Los Angeles Times, 1/31/03)Former Sen. John Edwards (D-NC):Sen. Edwards: “Serving On The Intelligence Committee And Seeing Day After Day, Week After Week, Briefings On Saddam’s Weapons Of Mass Destruction And His Plans On Using Those Weapons, He Cannot Be Allowed To Have Nuclear Weapons,It’s Just That Simple. The Whole World Changes If Saddam Ever Has Nuclear Weapons.” (MSNBC’s “Buchanan And Press,” 1/7/03) Sen. Edwards: “The Question Is Whether We’re Going To Let This Man [Saddam] Who’s Been Developing Weapons Of Mass Destruction Continue To Develop Weapons Of Mass Destruction, Get Nuclear Capability, And Get To The Place Where If We’re Going To Stop Him, If He Invades A Country Around Him, It’ll Cost Millions Of Lives As Opposed To Thousands Of Lives.” (MSNBC’s “Hardball,” 2/6/03) Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV):Reid: “The Problem Is Not Nuclear Testing; It Is Nuclear Weapons … The Number Of Third World Countries With Nuclear Capabilities Seems To Grow Daily. Saddam Hussein’s Near Success With Developing A Nuclear Weapon Should Be An Eye-Opener For Us All.” (Sen. Harry Reid, Congressional Record, 8/3/92, p. S11188)Sen. Evan Bayh (D-IN):Bayh: “In My Opinion – And I Do, As You Know, I’m Fairly Hawkish On Iraq. I’m Inclined To Support Going In There And Dealing With Saddam. But I Think That Case Needs To Be Made On A Separate Basis – His Possession Of Biological And Chemical Weapons, His Desire To Get Nuclear Weapons, His Proven Track Record Of Attacking His Neighbors And Others.” (CNN’s “Late Edition,” 8/4/02)Bayh: “The Question Is, Do You Want Saddam Hussein Having Chemical Weapons, Having Biological Weapons, Possibly One Day Having A Nuclear Weapon? Do You Want To Have To Deal With That? And If The Answer Is No, Then What Do You Do About It And When Do You Do Something About It?” (CNN’s “Live Event/Special,” 12/1/01)Sen. Joe Biden (D-DE):Biden: “First Of All, We Don’t Know Exactly What He Has. … We Know He Continues To Attempt To Gain Access To Additional Capability, Including Nuclear Capability. There Is A Real Debate How Far Off That Is, Whether It’s A Matter Of Years Or Whether It’s A Matter Of Less Than That, And So There’s Much We Don’t Know.” (NBC’s “Meet The Press,” 8/4/02)Gov. Bill Richardson (D-NM):Richardson: “The Threat Of Nuclear Proliferation Is One Of The Big Challenges That We Have Now, Especially By States That Have Nuclear Weapons, Outlaw States Like Iraq.” (ABC’s “Good Morning America,” 5/29/98)Sen. Russell Feingold (D-WI):Feingold: “With Regard To Iraq, I Agree, Iraq Presents A Genuine Threat, Especially In The Form Of Weapons Of Mass Destruction, Chemical, Biological, And Potentially Nuclear Weapons. I Agree That Saddam Hussein Is Exceptionally Dangerous And Brutal, If Not Uniquely So, As The President Argues.” (Sen. Russell Feingold [D-WI], Congressional Record, 10/9/05, p. S10147)Sen. Bill Nelson (D-FL):Nelson: “And My Own Personal View Is, I Think Saddam Has Chemical And Biological Weapons, And I Expect That He Is Trying To Develop A Nuclear Weapon. So At Some Point, We Might Have To Act Precipitously.” (CNN’s “Late Edition,” 8/25/02) Nelson: “Well, I Believe He Has Chemical And Biological Weapons. I Think He’s Trying To Develop Nuclear Weapons. And The Fact That He Might Use Those Is A Considerable Threat To Us.” (CNBC, “Tim Russert,” 9/14/02)Rep. Jane Harman (D-CA):Harman: “I Certainly Think [Saddam's] Developing Nuclear Capability, Which, Fortunately, The Israelis Set Back 20 Years Ago With Their Preemptive Attack, Which, In Hindsight, Looks Pretty Darn Good.” (Fox News’ “The Big Story,” 8/27/02)Former Rep. Dick Gephardt (D-MO):”Gephardt Said He’s Seen ‘A Large Body Of Intelligence Information Over A Long Time That He Is Working On And Has Weapons Of Mass Destruction. Before 1991, He Was Close To Having A Nuclear Device. Now, You’ll Get A Debate About Whether It’s One Year Away Or Five Or Six.” (Morton M. Kondracke, “Gephardt Pushes Consensus Action Against Iraq Threat,” Roll Call, 9/23/02)Former Secretary Of State Madeline Albright:Madeline Albright: “Iraq Is A Long Way From [Here], But What Happens There Matters A Great Deal Here, For The Risk That The Leaders Of A Rogue State Will Use Nuclear, Chemical Or Biological Weapons Against Us Or Our Allies Is The Greatest Security Threat We Face, And It Is A Threat Against Which We Must And Will Stand Firm.” (“Secretary Of State Madeleine Albright, Secretary Of Defense William Cohen And National Security Adviser Sandy Berger Participate In Town Hall Meeting,” Federal News Service, 2/18/98)

            Want More? I can go all global on you. Just keepin’ it honest. 

          • Fredlinskip

             As NJ points out policy of “regime change” does not necessarily endorse War.
            Yes many Dems supported the War, If they hadn’t, the voters who had been stirred up by 9/11 & a blitzkrieg of misinformation (much of it sourced directly from W administration) would have swept even more Dems out of office in ’02 elections (when GOP took house). W admin clearly used used the build up to War for political reasons.
               Gassing Kurds in 1988 does not justify a War in 2003. that’s a stretch, Gregg.
               We supplied Iraq with weapons in Iran/Iraq. And supplied them with materials with which to produce chemical weapons for years  even AFTER they gassed kurds.
               Just as Hussein had claimed these chemical weapons programs had been stopped and the weapons destroyed with U.N. supervision long before W’s War started.
              Yet he was asked to produce weapons he did not possess “or suffer the consequences” of War.
                The yellow cake had been sitting around for decades from a former discontinued nuclear plant activities and offered no threat to anyone except in their proper disposal.
            That’s why they were not “big news”.

            I entered Fox/ Rush comment, because anyone who thinks they are a credible source of information and not simply political tools of GOP are as misinformed as the American people were in the buildup to Iraq War
            (& of course Fox and Rush were major contributers to the stream of misinformation before the War)

          • Anonymous

            These look like facts to me. What could you possibly be thinking? The fat junkie and that other embarrassment, Hannity, Ripped into Clinton on a daily basis for his illegal military action in Kosovo. Then, several years later, during the War in Iraq, they tried to claim that anyone who would criticize the military decisions of the Commander in Chief while we had troops on the ground should be charged with treason. Evil clowns.

          • Gregg

            Dadgumit Fredlinskip, I am never sure whether to dismiss you with snark (not my style but often deserved) or take time to engage you seriously. That’s usually fruitless but I’ll take the high road. You seem to be trying to do the same.

            “As NJ points out policy of “regime change” does not necessarily endorse War.”

            Right off the bat we’re on the wrong foot. I don’t disagree with that and I never said anything to remotely suggest otherwise. I endorse that statement 110%. I’m on record criticizing Obama for not taking advantage of Iran’s 2009 uprising. I believe that was the last best chance to change regimes without a war.

            As I recall, the scandal was Paul Wolfowitz and Dick Cheney had already decided to go to war with Iraq and 9/11 gave them an excuse. So they scammed America in to thinking Iraq was responsible and war was justified. Do you realize how many people accept this BS on face value because of ideology?

            I never said gassing Kurds justified war. But it does out the lie that Hussein never had WMD.

            Do you not remember the fuss over he 16 words and yellow cake? So many said it was the “main justification for war”. It existed, go figure.

            People do not realize these things so the debate is not honest.

            There were real reasons to go to war in Iraq. There was real agreement. There was a real paradigm shift after 9/11. There was a consensus Hussein’s threat was untenable in a post 9/11 world which was completely separate than some revenge fantasy. It never was about revenge is is about changing the face of the Middle East or losing civilization. Maybe just maybe some of us are thinking on this level.

            But you’d never know it by reading this blog. Here, it’s all about oil or “revenge for daddy” or something.

            Stupid.

          • Anonymous

             Wolfowitz. Ha,Ha,Ha. another Bush administration boob. The twerp who told us all that Shinseki was wrong about troop levels required to keep order in post invasion Iraq. I’ll give you this, Gregg. You sure are a good soldier.

          • Gregg

            I have no idea what your are reading into my statement. Do you have a point?

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Did Gregg serve in the millitary?  Moda admits that he didn’t.

          • Fredlinskip

             “It never was about revenge is is about changing the face of the Middle
            East or losing civilization.”

            Apparently you were sitting in on Neocon meetings, because only reasons for War rest of America heard involved
            “alum tubes, mobile chemical factories, yellow cake FROM Niger, connections with Al Qaeda, and on and on” which were all fantasies created to influence public opinion. 

            The “reshaping the middle east” thing came many many years later because all of the other “reasons” for the War turned out to be obvious fabrication.

            American people were  shaken by 9/11 and our collective ingenuity and resilience could have been focused in many ways far more productive than  unnecessary war.
             IF ONLY we had a leader at the time, that wasn’t a complete half-wit, America and the world could be so much better off than it is today.

          • Gregg

            If that’s what you remember then either you weren’t paying attention or your news sources were overtly bias.

            Again, the yellow cake was real and you still call it pure fantasy. My guess is you never knew about the 500 tons until I posted it. My guess is you didn’t know about the “Iraq Liberation Act of 1998″. My guess is you had no idea that many Dems were so vocal about WMD. Hate is all you have.

            The Bush Doctrine was in place from the very beginning and it had nothing to do with revenge.

          • nj

            What’s stupid is that you didn’t rebut any of Fred’s correct points.

            Once again, you get called out on your disinformation and bullshit, and just kind of weasel around to deny the obvious inferences you made.

          • Gregg

            You are the one making inferences. I implied nothing other than the debate is not honest. I addressed all of Fredlinskip’s points.

        • Anonymous

           Last night I found a video of Limbaugh referring to fox as “Conservative News.” What an idiot.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        ‘W’ made the same assertion “I know that Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction, and I know where they are!” , when he announced that we were going to invade Iraq.
           We had Keyhole Satellites, in the ’70s, that could read license plates, from hundreds of miles in space!  ‘W’ admin. couldn’t keep track of those weapons, long enough to invade?  INEPT??

    • TFRX

      I remember how pissed off you got over the Hummer Tax Writeoff.

      Oh, wait.

      • Gregg

         Bill Clinton’s antics aside, did I subsidize Hummers?

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Cute Joke!!

          • Modavations

            An expert speaks

  • Alex

    I listened to the Friday’s show for a few minutes and I was really disappointed that nobody corrected Jack beaty and the callers who kept referring to IRAN as an Arab country! Makes me wonder is our state dept. as confused as these so called” experts”?  Alex  San Antonio, Texas

  • nj

    Clip and save. Repost whenever some Teabagger/Foxbot posts anything about Obama being a “socialist.”

    http://www.alternet.org/story/154175/why_obama%27s_the_least_socialistic_president_in_modern_history_%28and_that%27s_a_shame%29?akid=8275.20699.QVbCh7&rd=1&t=5


    Why Obama’s the Least Socialistic President in Modern History (And That’s a Shame)

    If the nation were governed by a referendum of Republican voters it would be more “socialistic” than it has been under President Obama.

    • Modavations

      Not Socialist-Communists huh.Hey little 4 year old.Put your lunch box down,put your hands in the air and step away from that Sandwich.Hey Gibson Guitar worker.Slowly put your “pic” down,raise your hands and step away from that dangerous Guitar.And the 400 times Mr.Brock=Media Matters, has been to the White House to discuss politcal assassination?Or the hundreds of times Trumpka has been to the White House to discuss Union Thug, skull duggery.How about the 100,000 oil workers laid off in the gulf through Royal decree,even though the judges said WTF.

      • Anonymous

        Silly diatribes based on a faulty world view, you should try to come up with some new material.
        Your act is getting stale.

        • Modavations

          Why don’t you quit freaking out and make a point.

          • TFRX

            I’m so jealous of Moda’s ability to divine others’ emotions via pixels.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            ONLY if it is less than a paragraph?

          • Zero

            When was the last time you made a point?  …two or three years ago.  Argue economics with economic data…when liberals present you economic data and argue for a solution, your only counterargument is “That’s communism.”

            I feel kind of bad that I taught you the words “totalitarianism” and “democracy” because now you are using them but I failed to give you an adequate understanding of these concepts.

            In democracy, there is this thing called a national dialectic where two sides argue and meet relatively in the middle on a given issue.

            The most left this country has been (in terms of economics) was postwar, post-depression 1950s–which is miles left of Obama and Clinton.  The government can’t take private property without similar compensation and just cause–it is in the Constitution.   To call us communists every time we make an economic argument or a political argument is going overboard (to say the least).  In fact, it is away of evading the argument and slamming down your right wing principles without regard to anything liberals say.  You are, in effect, dissolving that national dialectic and revealing your own totalitarian tendencies.

            I can go to Volume 2 of Mein Kampf and quote Hitler’s angry rants against Marxism and his desire for the individual to flourish in competitive capitalism…every time you comment.  But it is pointless.  It is not a real argument.  It is propaganda. 

            You need to learn how to argue on a data-to-data level.  Look at the data and make a claim based on whatever economic theory.  That is all.    

          • Modavations

            I don’t read anything over a paragraph

          • Zero

            This last comment seems to be a microcosmic representation of your views, ethics, and basic knowledge.

    • Zero

      I tried to look up what the percentage of public employment was for all employment…and I only found 16% from an unreliable source.  I think it is in the 25%-35% range, but I have no basis. 

      Greece’s public employment is 60% of the economy–which tell you that republicans are full of crap when they compare America to Greece. 

      But, I don’t think America should ever get above 50% public employment…but we can’t get too low either.  If it got too low, the ‘normal’ unemployment level would rise above the 4-5% range–not just because public employees without college education would have a hard time finding jobs–but public employment also has a multiplier effect for private employment since, after all, public employees are consumers and bring needed demand.

      If public employment in America really is 16%, then…I don’t know…there is one more argument for the democrats.  Sincerely, if anyone knows the percentage of public employment in the economy, please comment with a reliable source. 

      • Modavations

        22 million hacks,or 16%ish of the work force.

  • QR

    Atlanta Jewish newspaper calls for assasination of President Obama.
    http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=254592

    • Roy Mac

      This was interesting 3 weeks ago, before the retraction and beat-down.  Your point?

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Advocating the asassanation of the President of the United States, is a crime!  Printing such advocation, is a further crime?
           NEITHER can be dismissed by a retraction!

        • Modavations

          The Kennedys were “offed” by Leftists.Gabby’s shooter was a deliquent Hippy.A Leftist

          • Terry Tree Tree

            I don’t even think Carlos Hathcock could fire the weapon that was allegedly used to asassinate JFK, as fast, and as accurately, as was allegedly done?

          • Modavations

            Pay attention to my point Terry.Leftists are violent and often deranged.

        • Modavations

          Assassination!!!!I’m not a nit picker and couldn’t care less.I got your point,we all got your point.

          Sikh Indians Terry,not Sick Indians.I’m not a pathetic nit picker, however.I got your point,everyone got your point.Why do Sikhs wear a Turban?

  • Modavations

    Mr.Pants on Fire.I saw J.Gorelik and Bob Kerry going on and on about Iraqs long range missile and how simple it would be for Hussein to attach a nuke,a germ warfare componet,etc,.They were AT A HEARING BROASCAST ON C-Span.It’s this simple kids.Deocrat war good,Rep.wars bad.As Mr Paul said yesterday,the Left is setting up a Fascist Putsch

    • Modavations

      Democrat

    • Terry Tree Tree

      We should have never fought in  WII, since your most-decried Democrat was President? 
         You think we should have just abdicated to the Nazis? 

      • Modavations

        Notice that as soon as Obama became president ,Medea and Code Pink disappeared.I went to your pedophile site and it was taken down.Something about child pornography being illegal.What University did you attend?.How many languages do you speak?.What language is Lingue Straniere?

        • Terry Tree Tree

          YOU went to a pedophile site?   THAT explains your raging against my comments against the pedophile priests?  You admitting that you are one of the perverts?

          • Modavations

            I went to the one you suggested!!!

          • Terry Tree Tree

            When?  Where?

          • Terry Tree Tree

            I DON’T visit porn sites on computer, and likely NEVER will!  I certainly would NEVER go to a pedophile site, like you said you did! 
               What possible reason can you give for such perversion?
               No wonder you don’t like it when I comment about the crimes of pedophile priests and clergy?

          • Modavations

            Over thirty hysterical times in one day.That’s the beef,that’s always been the beef.Others have thought you a hysterical woman too.

    • Anonymous

            Hey, Moron. To what “Good” democrat war are you referring?

      • Modavations

        It only took you two words to make a slur.You have violence issues.

        • Anonymous

           If you’re a Moron, it’s not a slur, bonehead. Now try to answer the question.

          • Modavations

            Moron,bonehead.Don’t you think these are subjective.I guess as a totalitarian this is the modus operandi .Who would think a 21year old would have such violence issues

          • Anonymous

            Of course they’re subjective, dink. My subjective opinion is, you’re a bonehead and a moron. What’s your point?

          • Modavations

            Dink!!!.That’s a geek word that no one’s used  in 40 years.You have violence issues.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Feet, Please don’t lower yourself to Moda’s level of name-calling? 
               Moda has been name-calling, then WHINING about others using name-calling, for months, or even years?

          • Modavations

            Stop with the temper tantrums already

        • Terry Tree Tree

          YOU”RE the one that has been advocating violence, in MANY of your comments!

          • Modavations

            Example please and for the 20th time what University did you attend and what foreign languages do you speak.A few weeks ago you claimed that I called for censorship.I asked for an example and as  usual all I heard were crickets

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Good Grief!  You couldn’t even look at your comment that I was replying to, to see what I was talking about?  Guppy and goat have more than they  can handle, to keep you straight?

          • Modavations

            My advovcation of violence is where?.My advocation of censorhip is what?Why do you evade a simple question?What university did you attend?.How many languages do you speak.Quit stalling already

          • Modavations

            I said the man has violence issues.You are extremely illogical.How is this advocation of violence.

    • Anonymous

      The left is setting up a fascist putsch?
      You are a moron with a penchant for the oxymoron.
      I see your back and posting more inanity with a load of mendacity for extra measure.

      • Anonymous

         Wasn’t it sweet? Two whole days without having to maneuver our way around the resident idiot?

        • Modavations

          I only post when I’m at work.As I work for myself,today is a work day.I don’t like working on Fri..

          • Anonymous

             It’s good to see you know you’re an idiot.

          • Modavations

            What’s the point son.Ad hominem attacks are a sure sign of intellectual bankruptcy.The sad part is that you’re forced to defend the Left on Leftist radio.Have you ever thought of pleading your case on Heritage,or Cato.On NPR your preaching to the choir.And not doing well by the look of the incessant temper tantrum

          • Anonymous

            So that’s your excuse,
            intellectual bankruptcy.

          • Modavations

            More vacuous blah,blah.Make a point son.

          • Gregg

            When you work for yourself, everyday is a work day… unless the fish are bitin’.

      • Modavations

        This cry of anguish brings what to the conversation

        • Anonymous

          I see you have delusions of grander as well.
          It’s as if your mundane comments mean something or cause me any anguish.
          Far from it Mr. Mendacity.

          • Modavations

            Delusions,grander,mundane,mendacity.Seek help,you spew endless venom.By the way Grandeur lad,grandeur,.You’re having a nervous breakdown in public.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            See, Moda CAN spell some words!

      • Modavations

        In believe Ron Paul was making the same claim yesterday

  • Modavations

    A new TerryTT Bleat # 5.#’s 1-4 are Bush Did It,The Greeeedy Rich Did It,The Pervert Priests did It,I’m a Volunteer Fire man(look at me)and the junkies stole our hoses.Bleat 5 is to be used instead of your unmanly cooing after a post that you like(nice,yes good point,yes we all agree,etc,.).Like Ants rubbing each others antennea(there,there comrad),or members at a AA meeting
        Terry I’ve asked you repeatedly,what university did you attend and what Lingue straniere do you speak?.Orwell’s “Prol Speak” does not count.

    • Fredlinskip

       You and TTT need get your own show.

      • Modavations

        All he has to do is stand.I’ve made the offer 3 times.

        • Modavations

          stand down

        • Terry Tree Tree

          I DO stand!  I stand against your bullying, senseless statements, your hypocricy, your out-right lies about me, your baseless assertions and inferrences against me, and others, and a plethora of other infractions by you!

          • Modavations

            You stand down,I stand down.What college did you say you attended,What foreign languages do you speak.I advocated violence where?I called for censorship where?.Hey the Spanish Guppy wants in he says”en todo el mundo no hay un hombre mas tonto que Terry.El senor penso que Indiana es un hombre real.I’ll translate…There is no one stupider in the whole world then Terry.He thinks Indy is a real man.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            You agressively ignored the chance that I gave you!

          • Modavations

            Please feel free to use either French,Spanish,Eng,or Italian.I have no idea what you mean by”I aggressively ignored the chance I gave you”.Use Prol Speak if you wish.I’m also fluent in your native tongue.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      I stated that I am a Volunteer Fire-Fighter, which is the truth!
         YOU stated that you taught Archaeology to Indiana Jones.  Truth?
         I stated that thieves cut the brass ends off of fire hose, which is on the Sheriff’s Office theft report, and was recovered, which means that it is true.
         YOU stated that you have bought 1 MILLION 100 Watt Incandescent light bulbs!  Truth?
         I have stated that I am tolerant, but NOT interested, personally, of homosexuals, as most of them that I have known, are pretty good people.
         YOU have stated many times that you get ‘limp-wristed’ about Barney Frank, and many other fellows in the news.  Truth?

      • Modavations

        Terry Indiana Jones is a movie character.Are you drunk already

        • Terry Tree Tree

          YOU stated that you had taught Archaeology to Indiana Jones!  Were you drunk, when you made that statement, and MANY other ridiculous statements?

          • Modavations

            I was facetious.I was using sarcasm.What a one dimenssional creature you are!!!Remember Tom Ashbrooke saying zillions.This is literary device.My guppy wants in.He says Vraiment tu es un Sot.Let me translate.”Truly you are a dolt”.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Oh NO!  You’re adversly affecting guppy, now?
              I was afraid for guppy’s prolonged exposure!

  • Modavations

    Since Lincoln, the laissez faire types have been called Republicans.Now examine the Left.They have been Democrats,Liberals,Progressives,Greens,People’s this and that.Why the name change, you ask?.Because they keep being unmasked as Totalitarians.

    • Fredlinskip

       Moda,
      You voting democrat this year?

      It’s not too late.
      There are RA (Republicans Anonymous) orgs out there willing to help.
      If you ever start falling back and start spouting nonsense like “the more $ wealthy have the more jobs are created” or “global warming doesn’t exist”, just call and members will come and visit with you until you begin to regain your senses.
      Help’s only a phone call away.

      • Modavations

        That’s what you consider a parry.Not bad for a 21 yr old,but lame for adult.

        • Fredlinskip

           Not interested in “parrying” with your absurd comments- I’ll leave that to those who value their time less than I do.
             Keep calling TTT out, he/she’ll be around for you soon enough.

          • Modavations

            Then what was the purpose of this latest reply?.I think ignoring me would be more logical

          • Fredlinskip

             You’re right!
            A rare achievement.

          • Modavations

            I dare you to put that in writing

          • Terry Tree Tree

            If you just ignore Moda, he does NOT go away!  He rationalizes that he won the arguement, because he can claim a B.C. education, that seems FAR less than the one I got in third grade?

    • Ray in VT

      Try reading some history.  In the late 1800s the GOP was the party of the North, the party of a more powerful and active federal government, and it was this party that gave rise to laws that attempted to curb the worst abuses of the Gilded Age.  In the 1890s the Democrats were largely based out of the South, and they supported states rights and limited government action.  Your lack of knowledge astounds me.

      • Modavations

        This from the reactionary who won’t go see the Mona Lisa cause someone said the artist was a republican.This is my last missive.I will reply to no posts until you read Atlas Shrugged.This is the guy who says what could Prof.Lindzen know.You know the guy.He did his undergraduate at Harvard,then became the Sloan Chair holder at MIT.I mean what ever could he know?You’re a reactionary son.Over and Out.By the way,Fix your teeth

        • Ray in VT

          This from the guy who downplays the crimes of Hitler.  Go put your hood back on.  This from the deluded nut who thinks that the government wants to steal his light bulbs.  You’re either willfully ignorant or actually ignorant.

          I don’t know Lindzen personally, but, given the money that he’s historically taken from the energy industry, as well as the fact that his scientific peers have repeatedly shot down his theories denying climate change in the scientific press, his credibility seems stretched.  Maybe MIT will climb the U.S. News and World Report rankings when he retires and they get someone else in the chair.
           

  • Modavations

    Democrats believe in the seperation of chuch and state.Now they insist the church get involved in contraception.How long before they demand Jewish charities serve their workers Ham Sandwiches.The Left goes on and on about Choice.Abortions,sexuality,et al. yet they deny the poor “school choice”(the voucher).

    • Zero

      If Harvard is required by law to provide contraception, then what makes Notre Dame so special that they are exempt from the law?

      I believe in equal protection under the law–there is nothing un-Constitutional about Notre Dame following the same law as Harvard.

      • Modavations

        Get your hands off my 100Watt light bulbs.This is about Leftists imposing by force,their world views.Europe has been liberated,the emancipation of the US,is next.Finland,the last outppost of the Euro Left, has flipped Republican after 50 years of leftist rule.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          STILL the ridiculous obsession about the non-existent light bulb ban?
             We hope you will get your head out of your dark place, in a few years?
             You claimed, months ago, that you had bought a million 100 Watt incandescent bulbs?   Isn’t that a year’s supply for you?  You have time to buy as many millions more, as you need?

          • Modavations

            You guys tried to ban it and were soundly defeated,.Now get your goons out of my kids Lunch Boxes

        • nj

          More simplistic, mindless blathering from the forum’s village idiot. Finland is currently ruled by a center-right coalition of a diverse mix of party affiliation which appears to have a pragmatic bent. There is no “Republican” party.

          They do, however, have an Incandescent Party, whose sole mission is to preserve personal choice in light bulb choices, even for highly inefficient ones.

          • Modavations

            President Sauli Niinisto(I may be wrong on the name)is the first Conservative president in Finland in 50 years.Ironically he defeated Pekka H.(definetly forget his name)the first only gay canidate.Thus you guys get two defeats!!

        • Zero

          Way to evade the argument of the issue at hand…so I’ll take it that you have changed your mind on the contraception issue.

          As for the other stuff like light bulbs and Europe–whatever.

          If you asked me if we should do the same things Germany is doing, I would agree!  Germany has free health care, free college education, they have a renewable energy initiative, and one of the world’s best economies. 

          Remember dumb ass.  I’m a capitalist who is arguing for economic solutions within the mainframe of capitalism.  No one on this blog or in American politics is trying to overthrow capitalism–that is just paranoid blather.

    • Zero

      About the “school voucher”…I don’t want my tax dollars going to private institutions (especially religious ones).  The teachers are no different in public and private schools, the only difference is that private schools don’t have to worry about standardized tests and their teachers can actually discipline the students–there is in a sense “a deregulation” of teaching.  So, instead of properly regulating and overseeing public schools with out tax dollars…let’s put our tax dollars in the hands of the ‘average’ American and let them spend the voucher on a private institution that does not handcuff its teachers.  Instead, how about loosening the handcuffs and let the teachers engage with the students and prepare them for college instead of monotonously preparing them for a test…?

      That way, Farmer Joe Redneck with his 7 kids won’t pocket the voucher money and ‘home-school’ his kids. 

      Moreover: comparing a Woman’s Body to School Zoning Laws should be a clue to you to reevaluate your code of ethics. 

      • Modavations

        Pell grants have always been usable at Notre Dame.You’re protecting the Union Hackarama.
        The Left loves Humanity it’s humans they hate.

        • Zero

          I think Pell grants should only be used at public universities. (1) Even though the Pell Grants are still going to a secular education, I don’t think my tax dollars should go to religious institutions.  (2) Public Universities are more affordable and often just as good, thus the Pell Grants would be used more efficiently.

  • Modavations

    Bessie Smith(look her up)said”I been rich,I been poor.I like rich better”.

    TTT bleats you’re Greeeeeeeeeeeeedy

    • Zero

       Does such a thing as “greed” exist? 

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Goat agrees?

      • Modavations

        What university did you attend?How many languages do you speak.What language is Lingue Straniere.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          I learned better spelling, punctuation, grammar, and sentence structure than you exhibit, by fourth grade!  Before you could get into the high-school that I attended, you would need 3 rd grade remedials, and the resultant elementary schooling.
             You’re the best that voucher schools and Boston College produces?

          • Modavations

            And your higher learning was at what University and the number of for.languages you speak are what?.Why are you having such problems ,with such easy questions.?

          • nj

            You two should get a room.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            YUCK!!  NO thanks!  Not even if Moda were female!

          • Modavations

            What if I dressed as a Pervert Priest

  • Hidan

    Paul Babeu, Arizona Sheriff, Steps Down As Arizona Co-Chair Of Mitt Romney’s Presidential Campaign

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/18/paul-babeu-mitt-romney_n_1286531.html?ref=mostpopular

    A 34-year-old from Mexico, Jose provided the New-Times with a
    photo that showed him with Babeu; the photo appeared on the newspaper’s
    website, with Jose’s face blurred out. Jose said that while working for
    the Babeu campaign on its social media and website, he and Babeu began
    an affair, which ended badly after he suspected that Babeu was cheating
    on him. DeRose then asked for the passwords to Babeu’s accounts and
    asked Jose to sign a legal document stating that he would not speak of
    the relationship, according to Jose’s account in the paper.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Interesting that a homosexual sheriff would support a Republican, that campaigns against homosexuality?
         Interesting that a homosexual sheriff would have an affair with a known illegal alien?   So the sheriff would have MORE control over a sexual object, than being sheriff alone would?
         Interesting to know how many other ‘affairs’ the sheriff has mis-used his authority of office over?

      • Modavations

        An expert speaks!!!!

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Facts to back that up are non-existent!

          • Modavations

            Anyone who is obsessed by Prevert,Pedophile priests was more then likely a victim.You posted over thirty times a few days ago about Perv.PriestsThose who obsess(you told me you think about this stuff even when asleep) are often likely to molest their own children.Anyone who goes on and on about being a Vol.Fireman(real men don’t point out their charities),often turn out to be FireBugs!!!What University did you attend?.What for.languages do you speak?.Where have I promoted violence?Where have I advocated censorship?.The crickets sing,all I hear is chirp,chirp.Indiana Jones.Good god,is there anyone on the planet that does not know he’s a fictional movie character.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            I marked many of them for you.  Go back and look?

          • Modavations

            This is unintelligible.Use Eng,Spanish,French,Italian,or your native tongue ,Orwells’ Prol Speak.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            You are GREAT at the ASS part of ASS-U-Ming! 
               Lousy at the accuracy, though!
               Your idiotic statement about teaching Indiana Jones Archaeology seems to be consuming you with guilt? 
               I pointed out, at that time, that you would have to be over a hundred years old, if you had, even if Indy had been real.
               Or do you still live in the delusion that you taught Archaeology to Indy?

      • Terry Tree Tree

        RETRACTION;  News announced that ‘Jose’ may, or may not be illegal.

  • david

    My boss came in Friday and told all the guys we would be getting a 3% raise this year. Wow! in these troubling times a raise, like $20-$40 a paycheck. We are all happy!!!!!!
    Until!!!!!!
    One of the guys who works in the payroll office tells us a little secret. The boss is giving us a raise aright, 3%, guess where he is getting the money?????
    He is going to cut his 3% matching of our retirement IRA fund. 
    Man!!!! that is a raw deal, What do you people out there think of this??????????
    Maybe we can ask Obama, he is doing something like that on his payroll tax cut thing!
     

    • Zero

      No, your SS pay will remain the same or be better so long as you don’t vote for the party that refuses to help the middle class at the expense of the upper class.

    • Anonymous

      Well no President Obama is not doing what your boss is doing.

      I have to ask, do you really think that Presidents act like your boss or that the US is run like a busniess?

      What your boss is doing also puts more of a tax burden on you as well. Because you don’t pay any taxes on the IRA until you take the money out.

      • Modavations

        If the govt.were run like a business we’d be far better off.Instead it’s a hackorama.Every state employee in Mass.is connected.The cronyism is pervasive

        • Anonymous

          Oh give it up already.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Your boss LIED, if he told you that you were getting a raise, and was in fact just moving your money around! 
         I would be looking for an honest place to work, if I was you? 
         Sounds to me like your boss is planning a Golden Parachute jump-ship?  He will take $MILLIONS, and the workers get flailed?

      • Modavations

        Bleat # !
        The Greeeeeedy,Greeedy’s.When are you going to switch to the new regime and spare the audience the endless repetitions.That college you attended was what Terry,your for.languages are what Terry?.Perhaps you are embarrassed that you attended Patrice Lambumba Univ.

      • david

        This is the same thing that Obama is doing with his so-called payroll tax cut. He is giving all of us a little raise in a sense, yet! it is coming out of our future retirement account, called Social Security!

        • Terry Tree Tree

          I’m for doing away with ALL the tax-cuts, back to pre-’W’ levels, with  second-home exemptions ONLY for Millitary and others that must move to keep a job.  NO special treatment for corporate, or company farms!  Foreign companies must pay tax, especially former U.S. companies!

  • Modavations

    Happy President day kids,.To the boys and girls of the Left,Happy Commissar day

    • Anonymous

      Moda’s, mundane, moronic, miscalculated, mendacious, malicious, miscreant, and misplaced mastication’s for a Monday.      

      • Modavations

        This one beats the cake for a temper tantrum.Mundane,moronic,mendacious malicious,miscreant.Good god man,you’re having a nervous breakdown in public

        • Anonymous

          No, not having any kind of tantrum. I’m an adult. I don’t need to post 30 inane things on a forum while I’m pretending to work from my home office.
          I stopped count at 30 as it seemed silly of me to give a shit.

  • Fredlinskip

    Gregg,
    I know facts seem to matter little to your reasoning , and  Iwonder why I waste my time.
     The 550 tons of nonweapons grade yellow cake removed in ’08 that you keep citing prove Sadaam was harboring WMD’s therefore justifying America’s occupation had been identified, documented, and stored in sealed containers under U. N. supervision for over a decade and was known of since well before 1991 gulf War. There is no evidence of any new yellow cake after 1991.

    Because of poor handling of invasion, some of this yellowcake had been looted after War started, some apparently by villagers who were using the barrels to store drinking water.

    Quit doing somersaults trying to justify unnecessary War.
    W himself admitted WMD’s didn’t exist-
    After the War was underway, W admin intentions had been realized- the reasons no longer mattered.

    • Anonymous

      Why are you fighting against an old war that Bush got us into and out of!  Are you not worried about anything happening today and tomorrow.  History is history and can only be learned from, not debated. 

      Bush was the presadent that was in office when we went to war, He had bypartisan support for the war from some of the biggest names in the democrat party as well as numerious UN resolutions, and without democrat support and UN support, he wouldn’t have been able to get us into the war!  The fault of this war lands on almost everyone in power durring that erra equally!

      • Terry Tree Tree

        ‘W’ got us OUT of what war?  He got us into 2 wars!
           What is a presadent?
           Most bi-partisan support was based on ‘intelligence reports’ that ‘W’ told the gist of to Congress, and the Senate.   When supplied with false and misleading data, who would not support stronger action?

        • Modavations

          Bleat # 2 Bush did.What college Terry,how many languages Terry.Cat got your tongue?I advocate vioednce where Terry?I advocate censorship where Terry?Surely these questions can be answered.Perhaps while I was in College you were in an asylum,perhaps prison.Fill us in?

          • Terry Tree Tree

            About the time you were being a ‘chemical’-affected hippie (according to your previous comments), I was serving my country, in the millitary that protected you, and others, in those pursuits!
                Since I believe in service to my country, the world, and to my community, which you repeatedly make disparaging remarks about, I answer your questions, that I consider pertinent. 
               You’ll WHINE ON?

          • Modavations

            Look at me I’m a soldier,I filed paper for DOD.I’ll bet you I had more people shoot at me while in Africa ,then you did filing papers.I don”t take orders from anyone and was prepared for jail if apprehended.I legally got out on the Lottery(#291)Famous Drug Users and Deferees
            Bill Clinton(nose like a Hoover)
            Pres.Obama(read his book)
            Newt(I was in college and we all used)
            Bill Gates
            Steve Jobs and on and on and on.
                  A person who has never gotten high is not grounded.They are the types that molest and start Fires

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Nothing has honor to Moda, the bauble-peddler?
               Brags of ‘chemical’ use, background of lead, mercury, and other heavy metals ingestion, sneaking into asbestos mine to ‘swipe’ gems, plus various other questionable (AT LEAST) activities, then WHINES if someone repeats what he wrote?

          • Modavations

            A stalker is someone who purposely takes things out of context.If interested go to Bringing Up Baby,Feb7.Noteposts by Moda at 12:32 PM,1:40Pm,4:06Pm and Terry Post at 9;44AM.This guy is a premeditated stalker.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            FAR MORE examples of Moda stalking, for months!

        • Anonymous

          The fact is ‘W’ had a plan and timeline for the withdrawl from Iraq before he left office.  Generals on the ground begged Obama to not follow it, but Obama refused to anything different than ‘W’ had laid out.

          If you didn’t already know this, you should really look for some news outside NPR because you are not well informed! LOL

          • Terry Tree Tree

            ‘W’ had a plan that would pay for the Iraq war, from the oil revenues of Iraq.  That worked? That’s why our Budget Deficit is so large?   That’s why our fuel prices are going up, even in late winter?    ‘W’ had a plan to make the Budget SURPLUS LARGER!  How did that one work out?
               Shall we go on, with things that ‘W’ planned?

          • Anonymous

            I have never seen that, but it does seem to be some democrat brainless talking point.  Please proove me wrong and provide me with something Bush said or wrote to support your “‘W’ had a plan that would pay for the Iraq war” statement!

          • Gregg

            They don’t know a lot of things for the reason you cite.

        • Modavations

          If Terry were Lazurus he’d rise from the grave and shout to the heavens.Bush Did It.

        • Modavations

          What a nit picker.Is that all you’ve got?.We all understand what he meant

          It’s Sikh Indian,not Sick Indian,by the way.
          Why do Sikhs wear Turbans?

          • Terry Tree Tree

            I already thanked you for the spelling of Sikh. 
                Your mercury memory?  lead-headed?

      • Drewjkelly

         Some people have not learned a thing.
        Gregg started the debate. I was foolish enough to get sucked in.
        Not that it still isn’t a relevant discussion, if for no other reason than that some apparently have not learned a thing.
        Iraq conflict wasn’t the answer to the country’s problems- it clearly expoanded America’s problems and took our collective eye off more important domestic issues- to everyone’s detriment.
        IMO

        • Gregg

          It was FeetFire who brought it up with a crazy analogy. Not me. All I did was throw the flag. 

    • Modavations

      Bush admitted after the fact.Name a world leader that didn’t think he had them prior to the invasion.Bill and Hillary sure thought he had him.John Kerry and Bob Kerry were believers.I love the left’s rewrite of history.You want us to believe the Lefts hero Mao and Stalin were just misunderstood.

      • Fredlinskip

         Would you put another valuim in your martini and go back watching the Sci-fi channel and give us all a break?

        • Modavations

          three minutes ago you said you would pay me no mind.I didn’t take you seriously,everyone knows the Left is built on lies,on mirage.

      • Gregg

        I could respect the view that Bush lied if they admitted everybody lied. Maybe “respect” is the wrong word because its a crazy idea to think all those people lied but I would respect the consistency.

        But this display of theirs is embarrassing.

        What did Sandy Berger stuff in his pants?

    • Gregg

      Your first paragraph is a gratuitous insult, fine. Your second completely misstates anything I’ve written. Did I say it proves he was harboring WMD? No. Did I say the yellow cake justified the war? No. It’s just amazing how you have to project stupid stuff on to me. Everything I’ve written is true.

      There was a hissy fit over these 16 words: “The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.” The British still stand by it and Sadaam DID have 500 tons.It seems to me the hissy was misplaced. This is a stark example but only one of many.You are totally missing my point. The narrative is all based in BDS and is simply not accurate. It’s fine to oppose the war or think it wasn’t justified but rewriting history is not productive. The idea that Bush lied about WMD does not hold up. Yet it’s been repeated enough time many believe it. It is impossible to lie unless you know you are doing so. I gave you quotes from Clinton (both of’m), Algore, Berger, Albright and a host of others who I say also did not lie. You still refuse to say they all lied or none (including Bush) lied. It is not credible to say Bush led but no one else did. I even wrote it in capital letters in another comment but you can’t blame your hero’s or cut Bush a break. And you say facts don’t matter to me????? I’ll do it again, in your face. YOU WILL NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS PARAGRAPH BECAUSE YOUR IDEOLOGY WILL NOT ALLOW YOU. Until you come down on one side or the other you have zero credibility and a whole lotta nerve to talk about ignoring facts.We could go down the list from the yellow cake, Dem WMD quotes and the Iraq Liberation Act to unilateral, illegal, Haliburton, no-bid contracts that were bid upon, and on and on. That’s not my intention. My intention is honest debate.The Middle East is at a tipping point whether you want to admit it or not. Obama has not changed Bush policy because it was the right policy. This global jihad thing is a big deal for the world. It’s critical the debate be honest.

      • fredlinskip

         In a post below you cited a bunch of statements  as facts for our reasons for Iraq occupation. After I repudiated each in turn, the only one that you repeated again was the yellowcake allegation.
        I still don’t know if you get it. 550 tons of yellowcake were not “discovered by U.S. forces”. It was under U.N supervision for over a decade.
        The false Niger allegations have nothing to do with it.
        And after I have refuted all the arguments, you resort again to changing subject, as  I expected at beginning of discussion.

         W either deliberately lied or was mislead by those around him. Actually the MOST ACCURATE ASSESSMENT is that W wished to go to War with Iraq and asked those around him to “tow the line” and make it happen- in any manner they could come up with- WHICH LEAD TO A LARGE CAMPAIGN OF MISINFORMATION BEING LAUNCHED.

        You now want to expand conversation into “global jihad”, Obama’s policy,etc..
        another time, Okay?

        I know when we have that further conversation if  I make any headway all of a sudden you’ll devolve back to, “but we all know Sadaam had a bunch of WMD’s -look at the yellowcake!” as if this conversation never happened
        And I’ll say “not that again” and wonder again why I waste my time.

         I don’t mean to devolve conversation into level of personal insult, I’m just speaking truth, as to how I’ve seen these conversations go in the past.

        • Gregg

          I’m not trying to expand the conversation. I’m trying to posit there is a bigger context than the laughable scenario of your second paragraph. And the thing that makes it funny is I have given you Clinton’s words and laws, the 16 UN resolutions, the 17th  unanimously passed in the security council and yes, yellow cake (I’ll get to that later). And you have rhetorically given me “wink wink nod nod everybody knows”. 
          AND YOUR IDEOLOGY STILL WILL NOT LET YOU SAY THEY EITHER ALL LIED OR NONE DID. Despite my pleas in caps.Next post on yellow cake and if you still don’t get it I’ll give up.

        • Gregg

          The WMD did not pan out. Hussein most likely did not have stock piles. I’m not denying that although you insist I am. You project trash I am not saying on to me like this: “but we all know Sadaam had a bunch of WMD’s -look at the yellowcake!”. How in the hell do you get that? It must be me but this is my last attempt.

          Look how you do me, you wrote: I still don’t know if you get it. 550 tons of yellowcake were not “discovered by U.S. forces”. 

          You quote me saying something I did not say and then you take that and give it your own meaning. I am careful to use the word “removed” and not “discovered”. It’s not an accident. I am not saying the British intel was proved right because they found the yellow cake. We don’t even know if the British were right despite their standing by it.  How could I say it’s the same yellow cake?

          Hussein had nuclear ambitions and no inspectors. That’s what I’m saying. Look up Osirak. We’d been there before. The idea that he may have sought yellowcake from Niger when he had a known stockpile of it already was not a stretch. It was a prudent conclusion. The dude had an affinity with yellow cake. Yet look at the hysteria that resulted. I condemn the hysteria. Why on earth were the 16 words surprising?

          Finally, the 16 words were one line in a State of the Union Speech. It was not pitched as a major justification for war. This is especially true when listening to the entire speech. I think your comments about Powell (was that you) were fair game because he was making the case to the UN. I think Bush speech to the UN Sept 12, 2002 is in the same category. That is the speech where he made his case to the world. It was a great speech. In a perfect world you would look it up and see exactly the justifications Bush gave. It wasn’t yellowcake.

          • Fredlinskip

             I first joined this enthralling conversation responding to comment in which you cited 4 facts including,  I quote:
            “Fact: Our special forces removed 500 metric tons of yellow cake that evidently didn’t exist.
            Have I made any other assertions on this thread? No. Are they ‘facts’ or not? Yes. Who is avoiding them?”
            unquote

            After refuting these “facts” including the yellowcake, you came back with
            “Again, the yellow cake was real and you still call it pure fantasy”.

            So I then again refuted that  Yellowcake did not in any way justify occupation of Iraq or GOP claims that it’s “discovery” somehow vindicated W ‘s assertions of WMD’s.

            I could care less about the dumb-A’d yellowcake, honestly, in grand scheme of things- you brought it up. It was my sincere impression that “it” was one of the last straws you had been somehow clinging to justify the War- seeing as all the rest of the grandiose reasons Americans were told were eventually shown to be either outright fabrication or unwarranted speculation.

            Meanwhile, the buildup to the War was used for political reasons by Rove & buddies to unseat Dems in House in ’02, which then lead to a series of events & unfortunate policy decisions to the detriment of our country, WHICH MAY TAKE DECADES TO RECOVER FROM-

             IF we ever do.

            But now I am the one “changing (expanding on) the subject”

            Later

        • Modavations

          Dude,every post is an insult to someone.I often wonder how many of you guys are posting from BellVue.

  • Modavations

    What brings terror to the Left?Gas at $5.00 a gallon,that’s what

    • Ray in VT

      What brings terror to the Libertarians?  Government light bulb efficiency standards.

      • Modavations

        I hear a mosquito buzzing in my ear.A reactionary jejene at that!!

        • Ray in VT

          That’s probably just some Big Government secret spy mosquito that they’re sending after true geniuses who threaten their socialist-communist global warming conspiracy.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Moda can hallucinate practically ANYTHING?

          • Ray in VT

            He seems convinced that laissez faire politicians are dismantling the welfare states of Europe.  I wonder if anyone has told the Europeans?

          • Modavations

            Terry why the problem with telling us your educational credentials.400 Lipsticks have Lead in them,according to some idiot think tank.Perhaps this is why you shun women.Afterall they must also be nuts,by your logic

          • Terry Tree Tree

            You have 400 lipsticks?  For the lead content?
               You don’t think it strange?

          • Modavations

            Why must I continually explain the obvious.Some lefty consumer group did a study and found 400 different brands of lipstick contained lead.I can explain this to you in 4 languages if you still have problems.I confess to the use of Black Mascara when going to see the “Cure”,however

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Ewww!  TMI!

  • Fredlinskip

    Is it any surprise that gas prices skyrocket leading up to Presidential elections especially in which Dem is incumbent?
    Isn’t this a recurring phenomena?

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Several of us have noticed that oil companies try to influence elections this way!

    • Modavations

      Drill baby drill.Just the approval(not actualization))of drilling in Anwar,Buford Bay,the Pipeline and the reopening of the gulf would crash the prices in two seconds.By the way,Pres.Obama will realize this and give the go ahead.I’ll bet the idled 100,000 oil workers of the Gulf, who all make $100,000.00 per annum will give a sigh of relief.I’ll bet the Soro’s oil well off Cuba(90 miles from Miami)will be shuttered.I dare you to make a reply without invective

      • Fredlinskip

         A reply without invective?
        How’s about we subsidize oil companies with more tax payer’s $ so maybe they’ll see fit to cut into their fantastic profit margins for once and drop the price of gas long enough to aid this nation’s recovery.

        Last year Clinton was in office, gas was under $1.

        • Modavations

          Bravo.Cut all subsidies and drop the tax rate to 18%.Just like Buffet is proposing.Billy C.was my second fav.President next to Ronaldus Magnus.Unfortunetly the policies I liked,are  the policies that would offend you(my opinion).Dropping the Cap Gains,Welfare reform,etc,

          • Fredlinskip

             My favorite Clinton admin accomplishment was turning deficit into surplus.
               
               From 1960 through 2008, every Republican president has increased the debt/GDP ratio and every Democratic President has decreased it.

          • Modavations

            We envision deficits of 200Billion for as far as the eye can see.Then Newt and the boys took over,dropped the cap.gains and away we went.Now Pres.Obamas guys say 1 trillion dollar deficits for as far as the eye can see.The Reps.will take over end all subsidies(including the home deduction I hope) and off we’ll go again

          • Modavations

            And flatten the rate to 18%.Sorry I left that out.During the first two years of Pres.Clinton the Dow went from 3300ish to 4000ish.After the Reps.took over it went from 4000 to 11000ish

          • Fredlinskip

             Perhaps it would be more accurate to say “after Wall St took over the Republicans..”

            ..Dow took off.

          • Fredlinskip

             you forgot to mention that DOW then slipped down to around 6500ish after W got a hold of it.

          • Fredlinskip

             Perhaps so, but Republican admins have sure not shown any fiscal capabilities since 1960 no matter how “conservative” they’ve claimed to be.

            Perhaps they’ll flip a new leaf.
            One can only hope.

            One thing’s for sure, lowering national debt is going to require more revenue.

            Personally I’d prefer it come from those who can most afford it and who’ve benefited most from a lopsided economy favoring the megawealthy.

        • Modavations

          In 2009 the income tax rate for US oil and gas companies was 48%.The average S@P industrial co.pays 28%.

          • Fredlinskip

              Securities and Exchange Commission, says Exxon Mobile didn’t pay any federal income tax in 2009.

            Whether this statistic tells whole story or not, it’s real safe to say that these companies pay much less than 35% (which is the highest rate I see in an albeit quick search).

  • Fredlinskip

    The WMD’s we all should be most concerned about are those in U.S. hands that might very well be used if a goofball Republican is elected Prez.

  • David Oettinger

    Jack Beatty quotes Larry Durfner on this broadcast. Durfner is considered on the very far left of the Israeli political spectrum and is not highly regarded. Also, Israel took out Iraq – not Iran’s – nuclear reactor in ’82 not ’81. More Beatty silliness….

  • Modavations

    If Whitney’s tribute were held at a Democrat Confab the juice would be cut in under a minute.If you listened closely you’d hear Jeffe,TRFX,NJ,P.on Fire,et al chirping “friggin Catholic primitives.There is no god,but the State”.

  • Modavations

    That’s it for me.I’m off to the pub,where me and a few of my mates will hoist a beer to Pres.Lincoln,founder of the Republican Party,Emancipator of the Democrat’s Slaves.By the way,I’m curious.Which commissar,which Despot ,does the Left toast to on Presidents Day?

    • Fredlinskip

       Please…
           Don’t go.

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