What gives our money its value?  Some would say it is paper and the value is fake, others would say our military gives it, its might.  I believe our children, our homes, our infrastructure, gives money its long term value.
I am not worried about the paper, the debt, the banking crisis, the bailout, or the past.  No, we didn’t bail out the banks, we only moved numbers on a page, we didn’t destroy or create wealth in the process.  What is money? It is trading work over time.  When we create money without doing something of value we only change what money represents.  The bubble we have created is a numbers bubble.  In other words, render unto Ceaser, is not submitting to power, it is a declaration that value is in people, not in a coin.
We should focus on the crooks who have played the current system while not freaking out over the coming collapse of the dollar.  The housing bubble grew through immigration.  I think the housing collapse was triggered by anti-immigration rhetoric. It was destine to fail, but timing was related to immigration vitriol.    Who do you think was filling those lower rungs on the housing ladder? �
Banking crooks allowed (encouraged) people to trade ownership of their home for paper.  Wages stayed low as more money was created.  People bought all kinds of junk, including food, with what on paper (in a computer) was equity in their home.
The bank crooks did not stop there, do a Google search of “O.J.C. 5595″
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/05/business/mortgage-tornado-warning-unheeded.html?_r=1

The bottom line is that as banks were creating fast money they were also stealing.  Homes may have more than one mortgage holder, not a shared or packaged debt, but selling the same debt more than once.  At least some loans are fiction.  The solution is to create a national database that uses geo-data to establish ownership of real property.  I contend in some cases missing or sloppy paperwork is used to hide fraud of selling loans multiple times.  The unwinding ‘with all deliberate speed’ is to delay uncovering fraud.  Banks are carrying many times current value on their books, write downs and fraud are figuratively kept hidden in the back drawer.�
As a country we must invest in our children, for they give our retirement, social security its value. Our goal is to trade work over time.  We work for the next generation so they will care for us in our old age.  Now that is something to worry about.  Wages need to be tied to something that provides for us in all stages of life. Can we can talk about the economics of jubilee?

We’ve got meager economic growth enabled by government handouts from deficit borrowing.  If bond buyers started to lose confidence in the US or feared inflation from all the excess liquidity, we’d be sunk. The economy is plagued by excess capacity created during a 20+ year credit bubble.  A natural deleveraging process must be allowed to occur; the government is just postponing the inevitable.

Focus: the new credit bubble is in student loans.  The burst will come and it will be painful for all.

would you pls ask your guests how much of our post WW2 boom was dependent on the relative lack of industrial capability in the rest of the world, thanks

Arrrggh!! Another show on the economy, another show that apparently will not even mention, let alone give serious consideration to a steady-state/non-growth viewpoint. 

Consider me begging…

http://steadystate.org/

“Perpetual economic growth is neither possible nor desirable. Growth, especially in wealthy nations, is already causing more problems than it solves. Recession isn’t sustainable or healthy either. The positive, sustainable alternative is a steady state economy.”

http://richardheinberg.com/bookshelf/the-end-of-growth-book

“Economists insist that recovery is at hand. Yet, unemployment remains high, real estate values continue to sink, and governments stagger under record deficits. The End of Growth proposes a startling diagnosis: humanity has reached a fundamental turning point in our economic history. The expansionary trajectory of industrial civilization is colliding with non-negotiable natural limits.”

http://www.upne.com/1584654953.html

“In this compelling and cogently argued book, Tom Wessels demonstrates how our current path toward progress, based on continual economic expansion and inefficient use of resources, runs absolutely contrary to three foundational scientific laws that govern all complex natural systems. It is a myth, he contends, that progress depends on a growing economy.

Wessels explains his theory with his three Laws of Sustainability: (1) the law of limits to growth, (2) the second law of thermodynamics, which exposes the dangers of increased energy consumption, and (3) the law of self-organization, which results in the marvelous diversity of such highly evolved systems as the human body and complex ecosystems. These laws, scientifically proven to sustain life in its myriad forms, have been cast aside since the eighteenth century, first by western economists, political pragmatists, and governments attracted by the idea of unlimited growth, and more recently by a global economy dominated by large corporations, in which consolidation and oversimplification create large-scale inefficiencies in material and energy usage.” 

Arghhhhh… the Valentine day rose pitch by BUR…..
I was going to listen to this show, but I can’t take this anymore.

What made, in the NYT’s estimation, the right-wing Peter Schiff more prescient than Dean Baker and Paul Krugman?

Where is the liberal on today’s panel? (And no, Planet Money doesn’t count.)

Good thing Davidson is dealing with China’s “catchup growth” right away.

I don’t hear this kind of knowledge often, and certainly not as the prerequisite, the “before-class reading”, in the mainstream media.

Change so radical is coming that the powerful, the elites, government, corporations, religion, the military industrial complex are all quaking in their boots for the first time because it’s not the end of THE world, it’s the end of THEIR world. 

Please, Bernanke, Paulson, Summers, Rubin, Geithner, save us from Doom!!!

Cook up something new and shiny to save us!

Until we are ready to face the music (like Ron Paul has been explaining in every post-primary speech, whether or not the networks ignore his substance after begrudgingly airing them), we sheep will deserve the bankruptcy and financial shenanigans that we are handed by the status quo.

2004.

What “fringe” logic this is:

http://mises.org/daily/1533

How stupid do you think we are (I guess enough of us were, to ignore it)?

Why when your guests talk about kicking the can and the reality of our doom, its wise and ok, but when Ron Paul does it, based on clear mechanistic and systemic understanding/logic, we dismiss it?

We are so lame in our throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Crony Capitalism Failed.

Bailout Capitalism Failed.

Unsound Monetary Capitalism Failed.

Let’s see. In our current political race, there is only one candidate between the 2 parties who is willing to speak truth to power regarding our Banking system and related swindles, and the Military adventurism, and what the root causes/enablers are.

Since those are our biggest threats today, how is one Zealous, for highlighting that candidate?

Are you kidding?
This tweedle-dum, tweedle-dee echo chamber would make Ralph Nader cry.

If you want to end these endless cycles of boom and bust and have an economic recovery that lasts for the long term, then support the Green New Deal, which would truly transition to a green clean energy economy to create prosperity for everyone. The Green New Deal is a program proposed by the New Economics Foundation and has been embraced by the Green Party of the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_new_deal

Our host says “Hogwash”. Think of what it takes for Tom to do this.

Steve Hanke – not dealing with facts in Europe.  True, Spain and Greece are doing poorly, but Germany and Scandinavia are doing pretty well.

Inflation needs to go up.  holding inflation low is holding wages low and housing prices down.  It is counter productive,  all deficit spending is inflationary.  We are telling a big lie, the damage is already done.  The way out is to tie wages to a real value, like Brazil did to get out of their deficit and put money to work.  Inflation is money with a use by date on it.
Low inflation protect old money!

A full hour of BS by people who have stakes in keeping the game rigged against the average Joe!

Aslong as the Wall Street crooks are still in business, no matter how the economy recovers, it will never benefit us the 99%

Steve Hanke, please look at what has happened to those evil european societies while they were doing all that spending. They leapfrogged us and left us behind in the quality of life they provide for their citizens. 

And “Greece” is not “Europe.” Ireland, for instance, is not in a crisis because they “overspent.” They are in the hole they are in ENTIRELY because they stepped in and rescued a PRIVATE bank that was about to go bust. 

What a joke, straight voodoo economics. 

The recovery stinks because after 30 years of class warfare, tax cuts and deregulation, bogus free trade and union busting, the economy is structured to funnel all the wealth to the top. We’re not victims of inexorable economic forces, we just mnade stupid choices.We’ve done an amazing job of denying the facts in favor of voodoo ideology. And, the facts are that the glory days of the middle class was the period of very high taxes and regulation and strong unions, and the middle class has been sinking since we adopted reagan voodoo economics in 1980. Everything the gang at the “Cato institute” etc said about the Bush tax cuts was WRONG and the media continue to take them seriously. Why? Isn’t there any penalty for being wrong all the time?I’m sick of the euro bashing. They have problems, we have problems that IMO are worse, pointing to their problems and demanding more class-warfare here is pointless. The primary driver of the euro debt is the economic crash caused by the deregulated banksters, not too much spending.We don’t have to re-invent the wheel, FDR showed how to recover from the first Great Depression, all we need to do is follow that roadmap to get out of the Bush Depression.

So the stockbroker’s (Hanke’s) definition of prosperity sounds to me like this:  “central planning” by a conglomerate of “unelected” pseudo-monopolies that in many ways escape national control by any nation by being transnational, in effect a minority with the purpose of maximizing the good (in their own terms), and more and more defining one-man-one-vote as one-dollar-one vote.

Just testing.  Will this comment go thru?  Hour Two today is not working (for me, or for others, too?)  

What a colossal exercise in futility I see here, fueled mostly by blind partisan ideology. I’ve been listening to people from both parties and with every conceivable economic slant, moan and groan about the impending doom awaiting us all for FORTY years. I’m old enough to remember Richard Nixon’s wage and price controls, enacted in a futile attempt to stem inflation, which entered double digits during his administration. I remember Jimmy Carter’s charge of America’s malaise and the criticism he received because of it. Ronald Reagan’s silly trickle-down foolishness and many tax raises which those who have deified him have chosen to simply ignore. Bush the elder’s “Read my lips” promise, followed by more tax hikes. George W. Bushes tax cuts for the wealthy were going to save America, or destroy us, depending on one’s ideological bent. Obama’s economic policies have destroyed America as we know it, according to some here. What a bunch of balderdash. For decades, half of America has believed that the economic policies of the then current administration would ruin us all, while the other half believed those policies were foolproof. Yet, the turmoil continues, year after year, decade after decade, despite all those great minds with all those great solutions. This goofy, partisan bickering will still be going on fifty years from now, and it will be as counterproductive then as it has always been.

Reply to Still here http://onpoint.wbur.org/2012/02/08/economy#comment-433072192

“Working for things is not equivalent to slavery. If you are a farmer you know that.

Unless you mean we are slaves to entropy and scarcity, with which I agree.

The question is how we govern ourselves in the face of scarcity/entropy and your philosophical view on freedom”

I am a slave to a system of slavery, I pick tomatoes at the price illegal immigrants pick them,  I am not willing to make my farm into a plantation of exploitation, so I have limited access to labor.  It is cheaper (less loss) for me to give away what I grow than to attempt to sell it on the wholesale market.  I pretty much did that last year with vegetables.  Between God’s food pantry and church all of what I grew went to charity or my own kitchen.  Sold some beef to pay the taxes.�
There is violence in our economic system, we cannot remain clean and still participate.  It is nice to have the resources to avoid Wal-Mart, but we still benefit (in the short term) from their exploitation. �
My reference to slavery was a paraphrase of  Wendell Berry in his book the Hidden Wound.  It has been a long times since I read it so I can’t attest to its accuracy.  

Free men pour in at everyside.The liberation of NPR is imminent.Soros has grabbed Tom A.by the ear and hauled him into the office.”Suppose we lose our funding!!!

Term Limits and the gold standard fixes this up Toute de suite.I’d make your general, run of the mill hack switch jobs every ten years.Make them learn something new,it’ll keep them on their toes.

Here’s how one soothsays….If gold hits 2200 the end is nigh

Elect a businsessman to run the country.Enough of the Social Workers and Activists

Please someone turn off the Modavations comment bot

My business mentor often said “If you always do what you’ve
always done you’ll always get what you always got.” He expanded this idea
further by adding “If you do more of
what you’ve always done, you’ll only get more
of what you’ve always got.” This fundamental wisdom has proven accurate.

When we consider that since the 1970’s deregulation of the
financial markets has been the dominating theme of politics in the old-money capitalist
economies of the world, and that we’ve witnessed one economic train wreck after
another since—each more destructive than the prior—it is impossible to conclude
that more deregulation is the solution. As my mentor would conclude, more
deregulation will only lead to more economic instability. And he’d be right!

If we’re honest with ourselves we can admit that humans have
a long history of exploiting other humans for personal gain when given free rein
to do so. What makes anyone actually believe that those who are addicted to
money and power have any intentions of being “fair” to those they prey upon??? Hence,
the need for rules and regulations to protect the rest of us from the bullies on
the playground…

The argument of whether government or Wall Street is to
blame poses a false-dichotomy. Both have been corrupted by money-lust in a
system which encourages and glorifies greed and self-interest. Where is the
surprise here?  

Listening to these guest “experts” defend the status quo
disturbs deeply. It clearly demonstrates the disconnect of the “successful capitalists”
from the rest of society which exposes the complete denial of the former and
the true understanding of the latter about why and how the system of politics
and economic interests is corrupted and utterly broken.

These free market extremists are truly insulated in their
self-constructed echo chamber, which does not bode well for the rest of the
world since these are the folks who have been and still are running the show
and whose theories get us into these messes to begin with. All indications are
that they will continue down their rigid, idealistic path lined with primroses while
power-drunkenly dragging the rest of us down the rabbit hole which they have
dug.

Class warfare has been raging since Reagan voodoo economics was adapted in 1980, the deregulated financial sector caused a massive crash, and the benefits of the “recovery” are all flowing to the top. SURPRISE!!! The “fix” proposed by the right is even more voodoo. Give me a break.

Why doesn’t the media blow the whistle on voodoo econ? It’s been a total failure but it’s high priests are still treated with respect. Unbelievable. 

Legalized thievery refers to our tax code, but let’s just call it income redistribution among friends.

don’t forget American labor watches their wages slashed by 13% and midwest states are busting our unions down to “right to work” level so we can make chopsticks to send to China like they’re doing in Tennessee — that’s not growth — that’s irony

Three article that tell a tale:

http://www.boston.com/jobs/news/articles/2012/02/08/more_than_5_million_people_missing_from_the_us_labor_force/?page=1

*

http://www.cnbc.com/id/46310822

*

http://foolishfish.com/middleclass-what-middleclass/

Proposal for the tax code: Change charity contributions from a DEDUCTION to a TAX CREDIT. I’ll feel much better if 100% of my taxes went to a charities to provide services to those who are really needy, versus those who are politically connected.

What a lost opportunity for an expanded discussion. Tom, you should have been bold enough to include such voices as Michael Hudson and Richard Wolff instead of the establishment/conservative talking heads included on this show.
You featured a Wall Street guy and a shill from the Libertarian Cato institute. Where was the debate? Where were the alternative viewpoints?

There is a great description of these issues in the fun, quick read ‘The 2012 Debates’ available at Amazon. The novel’s main character debates for all political parties, taking all sides of the issue. An easy way to understand the predicament of the American economy.

I agree with the previous comment. These economists are basically trying to push the same old thinking that got us here in the first place. The sunny-side guy doesn’t even no how to define capitalism and the gloomy guy doesn’t understand that lack of regulation brought about the recent great recession… One sounds like a used car salesman and the other sounds like Chomsky (minus the wit and charm)…
Next time get some guys who, 1) aren’t complete spokesmen for the hyper-capitalism that got us in to this mess; 2) are interesting to listen to…