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Quarterback Tim Tebow

NFL quarterback Tim Tebow wins games and talks gospel. We’ll talk prayer, positive thinking and football.

Denver Broncos quarterback Tim Tebow (15) kneels and prays before the start of an NFL football game against the Chicago Bears, Sunday, Dec. 11, 2011, in Denver. (AP)

Denver Broncos quarterback Tim Tebow (15) kneels and prays before the start of an NFL football game against the Chicago Bears, Sunday, Dec. 11, 2011, in Denver. (AP)

Everybody’s talking about Tim Tebow, the gung-ho, “Praise Jesus,” miracle NFL quarterback for the Denver Broncos.  The “mile-high messiah,” they’re calling him, for the Bronco’s high-altitude Denver stadium and Tebow’s very public turns to God.

He’s on a huge and skin-of-the-teeth winning streak right now.  And every pass and run and last-minute, game-winning touchdown comes wrapped in prayer and fingers pointed toward heaven.  His famous sideline kneeling prayer has become the hottest verb in English – to “tebow”.

This hour, On Point:  “God’s Quarterback.”  Prayer, positive thinking, and the NFL.

-Tom Ashbrook

Guests

Frank Bruni, Op-Ed columnist for the New York Times.

Gregory Moore, Editor of the Denver Post

Kevin Blackistone, freelance journalist and a frequent guest on ESPN’s “Around The Horn.” He teaches sports journalism at the University of Maryland.

John F. Murray, Sports Psychologist and author of The Mental Performance Index: Ranking the Best Teams in Super Bowl History.

More

You can find an additional photo gallery of people “Tebowing” here.

From Tom’s Reading List

Wall Street Journal “On Sunday, when Denver Bronco wide receiver Demaryius Thomas caught a pass from Tim Tebow on the first play of overtime and ran it all the way for a game-winning touchdown, the stadium erupted. At once, people cried that it was a miracle, and Mr. Tebow went down to pray on one knee in his signature pose. Millions of viewers already knew the first words he would say whenever a reporter caught up to him for a postgame interview: “First of all, I want to thank my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ!””

Los Angeles Times “And there is nothing untrue about any of them — the Broncos did have to rally late for an unlikely victory, something that has become a habit for the team in the eight games since Tebow took over as starting quarterback. The Broncos’ seven victories during that stretch have included six second-half comebacks, five fourth-quarter rallies and three overtime periods.”

Real Clear Sports “I have accepted Tim Tebow as my personal quarterback and savior.”

New York Times “CAN God take credit for the victories of a thick-set N.F.L. quarterback who scrambles in a weirdly jittery fashion, throws one of the ugliest balls in the game, completes fewer than half of his passes and has somehow won six of his team’s last seven games?”

 

Playlist

“Winning on Tebow Time” by Tim Craig
“All He Does Is Win” by DJ Steve Porter
“Tim Tebow Song” by Lady Lake Boyz

Please follow our community rules when engaging in comment discussion on this site.
  • wauch

    I would love to clap for Tim and at times I find myself doing just that until they put a microphone in his face and he thanks his lord and savior Jesus Christ or films a commercial w/ his mom implying the evils of abortion. It is at this point that my disdain for him wins the day. He has could stand to use his position to make positive change in the lives of children or troubled unmarried couples by being someone they can lean on and being their mouthpiece. Instead he does what all other evangelicals in his position do…he implicitly ridicules the situations of those considering such a decision even though he has no idea how they got there or why someone might not be a person of faith. There is not one way of living a good life and not all ways involve faith or religion. I appreciate the guts and drive he plays football with but his implication that Jesus Christ has time to make winners and losers on the football field or any arena for that reason is beyond insulting.

    • notafeminista

      So work on being more open-minded instead of telling Mr. Tebow how he should live his life.  Seems pretty straight-forward to me.

      • wauch

        I am open-minded and respect the faith of others  but when it starts to make broad judgements about lifestyles or decisions without know the back story it is disappointing to say the least. Additionally, it has always been confusing that these athletes believe that God or Jesus or whatever they invoke actually has time to guide them to victory.

        • notafeminista

          Why wouldn’t God have time?  God isn’t human and as such doesn’t face the same limitations humans do.

          • wauch

            Really? Really?

  • Hidan

    Way to go, trying to politicize the Super Bowl.

    Tebow sucks.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      you are the only one who didn’t mention religion and you are politically correct.

  • Gemli

    Tebow is a talented player with an unusual style, who happens to have one foot on the Astro-turf and the other firmly planted in never-never land.  If his faith makes him happy and helps him win games, that’s fine.  But there comes a point when someone’s pervasive relationship with invisible superpowers can be a little off-putting, especially when one believes that every mundane aspect of one’s life is influenced by the supernatural.  He’s welcome to his beliefs, but so are people who talk to themselves or believe they’ve been abducted by UFOs.  They may be happy in their harmless, slightly delusional world, but you can’t help but feel a little uncomfortable around them, no matter how heartfelt and sincere they seem to be.

    • Winston Smith

      Your comments are very condescending and cynical.  Do you consider yourself an open minded, tolerant individual?     If so, your true colors of bias are showing.  I’ll bet that if he claimed to be really into yoga, Buddhism, or some other non-western religion or philosophy, you would be falling all over yourself praising him for his beliefs.

      My experience is that most liberals who consider themselves open minded are more biased and close minded than the people that disdainfully look down their noses upon.

      • Anonymous

        Non-western religions are equally false. 

        • Winston Smith

          You are certainly entitled to believe what you want to believe.  But mark my words, as Philippians 2:10 tells us, one day “every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.”  I pray that your eyes will be opened to the very obvious evidence for the existence of the one true God and Creator before it is too late and you spend eternity regretting the opportunity that you are receiving in this post.

          • Anonymous

            Please don’t pray for me.  The obvious evidence is that there is no designer.  When I’m dead, I will just be dead. 

          • notafeminista

            Well, when you read “The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks” …
            ..and consider that less than 100 years ago doctors prescribed menthol cigarettes as a treatment for some respiratory ailments, you might want to re-think what is or is not obvious.

          • Anonymous

            Unlike the alternative, science doesn’t claim to be infallible. 

          • Winston Smith

            You will wish that that were the case, but unfortunately, it will not be.  You will have gotten your wish…eternal separation from God.  At that point, you will realize how you chose to ignore the very obvious evidence that surrounds you.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

            The faith in America is disappearing per muslim people.

          • Patrick

            “Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourself every girl who has never slept with a man.” (Numbers 31:17-18)

          • Anonymous

            Would you rather be an ignorant fool or condemned to eternal damnation for your belief or lack thereof?  Just who is really insulting whom?

            I’ll evaluate things by what I see, hear and feel.  And by my calculations, a lot of religious zealots better hope they’re wrong about what happens after their death.

          • jbr

            Seems you’re coming perilously close to just telling those who disagree with your beliefs that they are going to hell. If that is what your interpretation of Christianity, i.e. Biblical text, is, then you should have the courage of your convictions and say as much, directly.

      • nj

        Yoga is a “non-western relgion?”

        That’s why i like reading the comments here, i always learn something new.

    • Winston Smith

      The more times I read your post, the more upset I become.  If someone had made the same comments with slams and digs toward Muslims, Buddhists, cross dressers, GLBTQ, or other groups, people like you would be screaming “hate crime”.  But when it is made against someone who really lives out his beliefs, which happen to be evangelical Christian, whose parents have been missionaries to the Philippines for years, then everything is fair game.  And I bet that you hope that he somehow falls morally or in some other way just so you can cling to your close minded belief that Christians are deluded hypocrites.  Comments like yours are why people view self-coronated “liberal-minded” thinkers with such skepticism.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      Gemli you have “5 likes” of your comment you are not alone in your perspective of someone’s rights to Kneel.

      You and 5 others are pathetic and I bet there are more out there.

    • notafeminista

      Because………?

    • Gemli


      To clarify, I don’t disparage religion in particular, but I’m opposed to institutionalized ignorance of any kind. Fundamentalist Christian values may seem benign on the football field, but in the wider world fundamentalism is a scourge that sacrifices the innocent on an altar of delusional certainty.  The hate speech directed at gays, women, minorities, non-believers, and immigrants by Republican presidential candidates, all of whom profess their strong Christian faith, is repugnant to me.  When their conservative Christian audience boos a gay soldier and cheers for executions I can’t reconcile their behavior with their purported Christian values.  If vilifying real, vulnerable human beings is a prerequisite to achieving some impossible reward from a fictitious deity, then I think it’s every thinking person’s duty to speak out against it.  Making it more palatable with an innocuous football tie-in does nothing to remove the bad taste from this morose philosophy.

    • Jasoturner

      Interesting comment in that you are basically describing a pre-enlightenment apprehension of the world.  I had not thought of that previously:  Mysterious forces as a substitute for explanation…

  • JUST CORY PLEASE!

    From a purely football standpoint, Bronco fans are headed for heartbreak.  An overtime win against the Bears without their starting QB and RB?!  Wait until they come up against the Patriots or Packers…  I am baffled that such a good college QB can be such a sub-par pro.

    As far as his faith and politics…  I’ve never liked it when athletes and entertainers use their gifts to push their personal politics.  I also don’t see how anyone could be influenced by Tim Tebow’s faith.  You truly are lost if you seek your religious guidance from Denver’s quarterback. 

    • PatsFanOverJesus

      Yeah, ain’t no amount of Christian Faith can make up for football knowledge that Belichick and Brady have, not even if you’re Jesus or the archangel Michael on the field,

      But I think there is a chance, not a big one, of Tebow pulling it off, mainly due to the Patriots defense that seems to collapse in the 4th quarter over the past few weeks.  And you know when that starts to happen, that the myth of Tebow’s 4th quarter magic will screw with the minds of the Pat’s D.

      • Gregg

        That, and divine intervention.

  • Guest

    Athletes thanking God on TV interviews has happened plenty of times in the past, it’s old news.  I’m really waiting for a Jewish or Muslim quarterback to go on TV and talk about how Moses or Allah helped guide them to the end zone.

    • Agnikan

      Moses? Try HaShem.

    • Patrick

      Or when an Atheist gives all of the credit to himself and his teammates

    • Heaviest Cat

      didn’t Jesus suggest praying privately unlike the Pahrisees who made a public show of their “prayers”?

      • TFRX

        I think there’s a collective will at work. If Athlete X doesn’t pray in public, the viewers may consider Athlete Y more faith-inspired, and their god may answer collective prayers for only Athlete Y. Ergo Athete Y wins.

        Of course, if any almighty has better things to do than pick winners of football, basketball, and stock-car races, all bets are off.

    • nj

      Pagans might praise the Nature Goddess for the grass on which they perform their overpaid, irrelevant feats. Wouldn’t work, though, on artificial turf.

  • Gregg

    I don’t know how anyone could object to Focus on the Family paying the big money in the free market for a Super Bowl ad and airing such a delightful commercial. What’s not to like? 

    • Heaviest Cat

      first, it’s a commercial which by its very nature does not encourage critical thinking but passive consumption. Secondly, big money  and religion are being used to push an ideology. That’s what’s not to like.

      • Gregg

        You’re right, better to just encourage drinking beer.

        • heaviest cat

          yes, actually at least the beer commercial is honest about what ti is.

          • Gregg

            Really Heaviest Cat, look at the ad again. There is nothing religious about it. No mention of God or faith or religion or even abortion. Abortion is not a religious issue either. The taking of a life is a big decision. There are atheist who oppose abortion and Christians that support it. Laura Bush and Barack Obama come to mind. It was a positive, non-ideological, harmless ad. Where’s the beef or more to the point where’s the threat?  

    • TFRX

      When left-wing issue ads don’t get quashed from the Super Bowl, for dubious reasons, then we can talk.

      • Gregg

        I’m not sure what makes this a right wing ad. What left-wing ads have been “quashed”, I’d probably agree with you but I don’t know of any.

  • Anonymous

    No wonder the world is such a mess as god is spending so much of his time picking winners and losers in football. 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

    Can’t Wait This Weekend for Broncos and New England. This will be a great match for 2 teams and 2 great quarter back of the NFL.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      TEBOWING – is a kneel by Bronco’s Quarterback Tim Tebow to pray to the Lord before an NFL game.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

    If he wants to pray let him that’s his Rights. if you don’t want see him kneel change the channel, please?

    it is only a gesture of someone’s rights. Just like the OWS and 99%.

  • Anonymous

    I wonder if god, Jesus, and some of their angels paint their chests to spell out BRONCOS to watch the games.

    • Jasoturner

      I’m hoping they spell out PATRIOTS this Sunday…

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

    Remember Tim Tebow didn’t name himself miracle player or Messiah. THE MEDIA INVENTED THOSE NAMES FOR HIM.

    The Media Again is contributing to the demise of the American people

  • Jasoturner

    It seems to me that one has an awfully limited view of what a divine creature would concern himself with if one thinks football is on the list.  It says so much more about us and our own self-regard than anything else.  Indeed, the hubris in the assertion that we are made in god’s image is almost embarrassingly infantile in it’s lack of imagination and lack of ability to think beyond the self.

    That said, Tebow’s faith and his expressions of it do not bother me.  He seems like a good kid who means well.  And that, at the end of the day, is what matters.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      You know what sir? if a coach is a child molester the world will be against that person and if the person is a religious in his own belief the world will also be against that person.

    • Heaviest Cat

      He may well be a good kid Jasoturner, but I feel, he’s being used to promote a market agenda;this on “public” radio.

  • PGreenwood

    His winning streak is incredible.  He is 7-1 as a starter over the past two seasons while the other starters are 5-16 over that period.  He can’t throw, but he runs well and keeps the clock and chains moving.  Paired with a tough defense, he always gives his team a chance to win.  It was written off as chance after the first starts, but the sample size is now too large to ignore. 

    • Jasoturner

      I seem to recall Kyle Orton on a 6-0 streak a few years ago and was probably 6-2 after 8 games.  That sample size did not uncover the unraveling that was about to begin.

      If Belichick decodes the pro option – and he well may – that may be the beginning of the end for Tim, at least as a surreal winner of games.  But with improved mechanics, I’d like to see him succeed as a pro QB.  He’s fun to watch and obviously has talent and drive.

      • PGreenwood

        Orton appears to be the exception.  From a purely statistical perspective, 7-1 is much different than 5-16.  Tebow also has the advantage of not playing for Josh McDaniels whose style sets QBs up to fail.  Jon Fox loves to run the ball which fits perfectly with Tebow’s style.

        Go Pats!

  • Patrick

    If God is the reason for winning, then God is the reason for losing.

    That being said, regardless of what Tim Tebow believes, the hype around the “mile high messiah” persona is a marketing instrument.  I’m sure that, once Yahweh realizes that his image is being co-opted to sell jerseys and cable subscriptions, then he’ll forsake Tebow and the Broncos franchise.

    Then again, maybe Tebow is keeping the almighty happy with the kinds of blood sacrifices – sheep, cattle, etc. – that He is reportedly so fond of (read the Old Testament – everyone knows that the Heavenly Father loves Him some cow blood).  It would be a nice tit for tat – Tebow slays the fatted calf on Saturday, and Jehovah comes through in the clutch on Sunday. 

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      Should go after Bronco’s public relationship officer for using Tebow has a marketing tool to sell Bronco Apparels?

    • TFRX

      So praying to the proper God before a ballgame is just a warm-up for choosing the proper God to believe in on one’s deathbed? :-)

  • Heaviest Cat

    yep. .Once again “public” radio embraces the trendy religious athlete narrative to promote a conservative pro-market agenda. N critical thinking required. Today’s “on Point ” programs make ‘BUR complicit in the rise of corporate fascism in a time when we need truly independent journalism

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Tim Who?  This fellow is no more an expert on religion than Michael Jordan is on underwear.

  • Tracy

    I can’t believe you are wasting an hour on this non-topic.

  • PatsFanOverJesus

    Tebow prays to Jesus?  So if he’s in New England, he prays to Tom Brady?

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    People die of incurable diseases, wars, crimes, lack of health care, and on and on.  People are suffering from an economy that has left them behind.  And yet, God is a football fan.  I feel so much better now.

    • David Gann

      The point is not if God is a football fan, the point is that Tim Tebow is a Jesus fan

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        Why should I care?  He needs to learn how to be relevant.

  • MICHIGANJF

    HEY!!!

     Republicans already have their Presidential candidate for 2028!!

  • JMC

    i would ask the guest how many times have we heard an athlete say I love you Mom, what is the difference?

  • Ryan

    It is great that someone is taking a stand for their religion! It is coming to a point where being a public Christian is a bad thing. If people want the right to be atheists, gay, Jewish, ect then they should give the same right to Christians.
    This is a huge issue and a hot topic, what are the things your not suppose to talk about: religion and politics! Great job Tom and I respect Tim’s conviction and faith.

  • Anonymous

    Why is he working on the Lord’s day?

    • Anonymous

      I’d like to thank Jesus for Tom selecting my comment to read on the air. 

    • Patrick

      Strictly speaking, he’s supposed to be stoned for that.

  • MICHIGANJF

    GOOD GRIEF!!!!

    “GOD” has nothing better to do with this devasted planet and its attendant lost humanity than to send His great message through the winning of one team’s football games!!!

    Can Evangelicals get more ludicrous???!!!

    …. don’t answer that….

  • Terrie, Pittsburgh, PA

    I have heard that Fox News thinks that “Freedom of Religion” is being assaulted and that Jon Stewart is “going to hell” (quote Bill O’Reilly).  I want to know what’s happened to “Freedom FROM Religion”!!!!!!!

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      You really listen to Bill O’Reilly and FoxNews?

    • Bill from Lexington, KY

      Actually, if I have to put up eternally with all those holier-than-thou’s who are certain they are going to be in Heaven, I’ll take my chances with the alternative – whatever that is. Those people are a lot more interesting anyway.

  • JMC

    so promoting your success to a corporate partner is ok, i guess as long as your getting paid it is acceptable.

  • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

    This sort of “religion on your shirt sleeve” is just as inappropriate as overt sexuality or racial views.

    Mr. Tebow needs wonder how important American football is to God, or unimportant…

    Neil

  • TFRX

    Love the reworking of “Tulsa Time”. I haven’t heard it before.

  • Kate A

    Football fans have been following Tim Tebow for years. Southerners love nothing more than college football and Tim Tebow is creating/continuing a huge fan base by promoting himself has a God-loving football player. As a born and raised Georgian (now living in Boston) trust me - a lot of people love him more for this.

  • Maximaginemp3

    Ever wonder with war, starvation, disease and so many other things to consider, why does God put such an emphasis on sporting events?  

    • notafeminista

      I think it’s ESPN et al putting the emphasis on sporting events.

      • Bill in Lexington, KY

        You mean, ESPN is not God??

  • AC

    i’ve never heard of this person until 20 minutes ago - but why does anyone care if he prays before his game? this is why i dislike all religions. what a waste of time arguing it’s ‘semantics’….plus they’re all so certain they’ve got the right one….

    • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

      Exactly!

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      Exactly.

  • Doug Varney

    Tebow’s arrogance is of biblical proportions

  • http://en-gb.facebook.com/onanov Donald Baxter

    is this a slow news day or what?

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    So he got a skill that makes him lots of money.  Yup, I’d be thankful for that too.  Let’s give him the suffering of Job and see what happens.

  • God_takes_sides

    So why did God abandon Barber on his blunder and favor Tibow? And, why isn’t Notre Dame undefeated every year?

    Has he read Matthew about public prayer?

  • David Gann

    Tebow’s thanking God is a sign of true humility.
    If Tebow was talking trash, dying his hair purple, wearing a Che Guevara T-shirt at press confrences and out for himself, he would no doubt be praised by most of his critics as a true individual.

  • Dave

    In his commercials for the FRS supplement drink, he doesn’t thank God, he thanks FRS.  No mention of God.

    • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

      God does not exist. Come back to reality.

      • notafeminista

        How are you so certain?

  • RBP

    Evangelicals are the people Yeshua bar Yosef warned us against!

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

    I am uninterested in this fool’s phony and pretentious religious displays. Let him keep his religon in his church and home and out of my face.

  • Anonymous

    Tim Tebow is free to hold whatever religious beliefs he wants and exercise them as he chooses.

    But his constant ostentatious demonstrations of piety in his workplace are out of place.

    Image what it would be like to work in an office where every time the  copying machine worked as intended, someone dropped to their knees and praised their version of God for making it happen. Who would want to work in an environment where the most routine job tasks are heralded the way Tebow does when he successfully performs the job for which he is (very well) paid.

  • Kris H.

    I think that it is just great and HEROIC of Tim Tebow to display his thanks to the Lord! We live in such a secular/materialistic world…it is refreshing to see the public display down to a family at a restaurant giving thanks before their meal. World, you will see that there is a God and Jesus Christ is His son…upon your death and subsequent judgement of your life on earth.  

    • Patrick

      “If two men are fighting
      and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and
      she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her
      hand. Show her no pity.”  (Deuteronomy
      25:11-12)

      I know I’m going to hell because this has happened to me sooo many times and I’ve never cut any ladies’ hands off.

    • heaviest cat

      faith is one thing but this sort of pietistic posturing, well… ?

  • Nutricj

    we are so eager to smack down anyone’s optimism and joy in this country. dont care if he prays to rocks in prime time- if you are a kind, giving and happy person being grateful for your gifts- big or small, let your freak flag fly-

    if that’s giving thanx to his god each day- let him have his faith and be happy for him.

  • Sara in Ky

    Ugh. Tebow and Jesus. Tired of hearing about both.

  • Mark —Bellows Falls, VT

    I haven’t seen but I appreciate Tebow’s gestures as a sign of RECOGNITION. I thin that getting off the sofa and going to the fridge for a beer can be a similar gesture.  It all depends on the meaning you give to the gesture.  If your gesture helps you to connect with the wonder of divine life, DO IT or do something else..I’m certain that Mr. Tebow is NOT perfect although he is doing and speaking some very beautiful things.   Tebow magic will be PRESENT when the Broncos lose, even lose like only a Boston team can lose.  That’s the magic of FAITH.  It connects us and brings wonder to life even and perhaps especially in the experience of LOSS!!!

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      Such kind words. I love the people of Vermont

  • Barlowmail

    If Jesus came back, the fanatic and arrogant Christians would crucify him.

  • Anonymous

    His promotion of Focus on the Family is enough to counter any claims that he is merely personally religious. 

    • Winston Smith

      With their promotion of gay marriage, abortion on demand, and other anti-God positions, liberals certainly don’t keep their personal religious, albeit it anti-God, viewpoints to themselves.  They are doing their best to drag the world down into the moral cesspool in which they dwell.  Christians who support Focus on the Family are merely trying to restore some morality to our darkened world.

      • Patrick

        I couldn’t agree more.  That’s why I make my wife sleep in the garage when it’s her “time of the month.”  Leviticus 15 is no joke.

        • Winston Smith

          mo-ron

          • Patrick

            Hey, I didn’t write it – you must be saying that God’s a moron

      • Anonymous

        I don’t want political opinions that I agree with being promoted by supernatural claims either. 

  • Doug Varney

    With Tebow’s biblical citations on his eyeshadow we will soon have ads for Fox “News” similarly displayed. 

  • Tom

    American Football is a minor sport on planet Earth. Hardly even noticed throughout the world, so why would god bother with it. S/he might as well intervene in a pie eating contest.
    More people watch Quidditch than American Football.

  • http://www.facebook.com/uglicoyote Bill Uglicoyote Davis

    I used to be a Bronco fan. Now I find that my favorite team every week is whever is playing the Broncos. Teblow and his evangelical friends  completely turn me off and I tune oout. In fact I just shut the radio off.

  • Kraig Richard Shelburne VT

    All the worlds sports means soccer  If you watch non-US soccer games you’ll see the sign of the cross from nearly every player as they enter the pitch or score a goal. Nearly every player. 

    • Nutricj

      i’m a big cycling and auto racing fan- it’s true of those international sports too- wearing of and make the sign of cross openly and frequently

  • Tom

    I think Tebow should keep his religious fervor to himself. This is tantamount to evangelism.  Many of our problems in the world today are a result of religious fundamentalism.  Best example is the role of Islam in justifying terrorism and the desire, for 1600 years to push this religion around the world.  Christian fundamentalists are capable of pursuing their fervor to the same extent and have done so many times in the last 2000 years.  Religion should be kept private at all times. If not it has the effect of taking away our personal freedoms that we worry so much about losing.

  • john darrell

    If Tebow is god’s quartebeack, whose his opponent? The antichrist?  Satin’s quarteback?
    How can a believer on the other team sack god’s guy.
    His view that god is on his side is as offensive as the guy who scores a touchdown and makes an in your face gesture.
    Listen to Dylan’s ‘With god on our side’
     

  • Rob (in NY)

    Wow.  Why all the hostility because Tebow is a religious man who is not afraid to publicly discuss his beliefs?    It is not like Tebow is forcing others to accept these beliefs or is even implying that his performance (positive or negative) is impacted by God.    In fact, I believe Tebow has stated that he doubts God even cares about the outcome of a football game.   People need to relax a little bit as there is far worse behavior athletes can (and do) exhibit on and off the field.   In an era of poor sportsmanship where athletes seem to celebrate excessively anytime they do something positive (e.g. watch almost any wide receiver when they score a touchdown) combined a thug mentality off the field, even though I am not the most religious person I find no treat in religious athletes.  

    However, as a life long NY Giants fan my favorite current NFL althlete is probably  Eli Manning.  He is an overachiever on the field  and  is one of the best late 4th quarter QB’s in the NFL.  Off the field, he was an academic American in college and exhibits pure class and his fairly private about his family, religion,etc….  Most New Yorkers do not even know how involved he is in the charity circuit here as he does very little to publicize himself.   Before I forget, he also helped ruined New England’s near perfect season!!!!!  

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      All people are different we have Tebow who is not ashame to show his religious gesture and Manning a quiet and a private guy. You and me are also different because I am a fan of the New England Patriots but it doesn’t mean WE HATE EACH OTHER.

    • heaviest cat

      Rob ,it’s not that he;s personally religious but that he’s parading it and the conservative ideology of “Focus on the Family” It all sounds like marketing of a
      clean American narrative to me. to me

  • Sara

    In the United States, we have the freedom of religion. That freedom extends onto the football field. Regardless of your religious beliefs, you can thank whomever you want when you do well. I commend Tebow for taking a stand for what he believes.

  • Cat

    I
    think more people continue to pay so much attention to Tebow and his
    “religiosity”, the more you trivialize religion all together. I was
    raised that your personal relationship with God doesn’t have to be explained or
    defended…it just simply “is”. 
    Why do we have this need to MAKE others accept what we personally
    believe…are you only believing in your relationship with God if others
    understand or condone it?

    I
    think more people continue to pay so much attention to Tebow and his
    “religiosity”, the more you trivialize religion all together. I was
    raised that your personal relationship with God doesn’t have to be explained or
    defended…it just simply “is”. 
    Why do we have this need to MAKE others accept what we personally
    believe…are you only believing in your relationship with God if others
    understand or condone it?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68
    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      Sport writer wrote this in February of 2011 before Tebowing became popular.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1125975244 Aaron K. Hallquist

    it’s pretty obvious who God isn’t rooting for…the Dallas Cowboys!  Did any of you see the end of that game agains the Giants on Sunday night?  Now that was miraculous.

    • http://www.facebook.com/kraig.richard Kraig Richard

      Praise Allah

  • Dave

    Are you fellow atheists so sensitive that you want to outlaw another persons right to say what they believe, or get on a knee for a second?

    Can’t you think for yourself and live and let live?  

    If a team says you need to be Christian, that’s something different.

    • Anonymous

      He can say what he wants and we can comment on that.  If you make a spectacle of yourself and promote odious organizations like Focus on the Family, then expect to be criticized. 

  • Jconescu

    I’ve never understood the Tebow bashing.   Forgetting about the religion – he won the Heisman as a sophomore, he helped lead Florida to national championships.  He’s a great athlete.  Let’s see what he does against the Patriots (less than) stellar pass defense on Sunday.  

  • David Gann

    I am not a religious person however,
    Tim Tebow is, among other things, building a Childrens Hospital in the Philipines. I wonder what all these cynics have done for anyone lately.

    • Tom

      Those hospitals are a front for Christian propaganda. Their mission statement is :
      “Healing the sick and proclaiming the Kingdom of God.”
      Evangelizing for a religion as part of your hospital’s mission is disgusting, and these Christian evangelicals have destroyed many family based cultures in the far east and elsewhere, literally pitting family ‘believing’ members against non-believing family members, and causing rifts in the social fabric. It is disgusting.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Lucia-Campbell/682889810 Lucia Campbell

    I don’t think the Constitution nor the Christ are helped in anyway by this tempest in a bowl sized teapot.
    What do you plan to change by taking a stand on a man’s demonstration of his connection to the Divine?  
    What does he plan to affect by his public actions?
    I was glad to hear Tebow does not thank Jesus for winning but rather, for his gifts.
    We should follow his example, if not his particular path.
    the divine in me greets the divine in you.
    Namaste

  • nj

    Within the bizarre spectacle that is professional sports, in this case football—overpaid, overgrown kids bashing into each other in a barely controlled orgy of public violence, a mass distraction providing a false sense of community to sheeplike masses—we’re supposed to care about one player’s public displays of fealty to mythological entities.

    Wake me when they find another habitable planet.

    • David Gann

      nj take a breath, it’s just a game!

      • nj

        Hundreds of thousands of concussions a year, millions of spectator hours that could be spent doing something productive, millions of public dollars spent for private profit (tax breaks, stadiums, etc.)…

        Yep, just a game.

        • Modavations

          Do you ever have fun.Millions of people the world over love sport.They’ve loved sport since Adam and Eve..Lighten up.

          • nj

            You seem to have me confused for someone who cares the least little bit about what you think.

  • Tom

    If a Muslim prayed at the sideline and swaggered his religion around like this, the fanatic Christians would be up in arms and go crazy over it.

  • Tom

    Tebow has founded a CURE hospital in the Philippines. Those hospitals are a front for Christian propaganda. Their mission statement is :
    “Healing the sick and proclaiming the Kingdom of God.”

    Evangelizing
    for a religion as part of your hospital’s mission is disgusting, and
    these Christian evangelicals have destroyed many family based cultures
    in the far east and elsewhere, literally pitting family ‘believing’
    members against non-believing family members, and causing rifts in the
    social fabric.
    It is disgusting.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      Actually Filipinos are very religious with or without the Hospital but a lot of Filipino Catholics are leaving the congregation to find a better christian domination. You are right selling a religion in a Hospital is disgusting.

  • Modavations

    Tebow is bashed because the Left has no god.Their god is Govt..Why do you think Christmas is Winter Holiday and Thanksgiving is Fall day,etc,.

    • Patrick

      I don’t think that’s true.  Liberals are the only ones who called for stoning the adulterer Newt Gingrich.

      • Gregg

        Not true, many conservatives want to stone him too. For liberals it’s ideological, they were happy to give Clinton a pass. Ditto Edwards.

        • Patrick

          You’re missing the point – if the right was so god-fearing, they would support public stoning of adulterers.  After all, the exhortations to do so come from the same part of the Old Testament that they incessantly cite in their homophobic screeds.

          • Gregg

            Maybe I am missing the point. I just think there are God-fearing Democrats and I don’t think the Bible advocates stoning adulterers. I’m not sure I want to get your point.

          • Patrick

            Deuteronomy 22:22 – “If a man be found lying with a woman married to a husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman”

            You can cherry-pick the Bible all you want, but that’s what it says, and it’s supposedly the word of god, so…

          • Gregg

            People interpret the Bible many different ways. It doesn’t say stone’m. Some say the Bible tells them to handle snakes too. It’s a faith thing, says it right there. So… if someone “says” they’re a Christian they dern well better get some snakes or they’re hypocrite quarterbacks… obviously Republicans. 

            Professed heathens (Democrats) don’t matter, they never said they were angels like the Republicans always do. Republicans want to be in your bedroom. 

            I think I get your point. No need to elaborate.

          • Patrick

            Probably no need, but it feels like the right thing to do.  If you claim that the Bible is a source of authority that permits you to bash gays, then you need to explain why its other claims, say, about ostracizing menstruating women, don’t need to be taken seriously.

            Otherwise, the Bible is just a jumble of ancient writings, full of internal contradictions, that you can trot out whenever you want to express your dislike of something.  And anyone who responds to such inconsistent claims of authority is a fool, at best.

          • Gregg

            I personally don’t say any of that. And those that do are of all ideological  persuasions.

            .

          • Gregg

            Replying up here because of the little box, you wrote: “Otherwise, the Bible is just a jumble of ancient writings, full of
            internal contradictions, that you can trot out whenever you want to
            express your dislike of something.  And anyone who responds to such
            inconsistent claims of authority is a fool, at best.”

            I can agree with the first half but why disparage those who find comfort with their beliefs? Nobody knows for sure, it’s impossible. I’m not a Christian but I respect those who are.

          • Patrick

            Now, I’m sure you believe that there are fools in this world.  There are behaviors, or modes of thought, that you consider foolish.

            I can fairly say that I respect most Christians, but there are those who claim that, for example, homosexuality is an abomination because of this or that verse in the Old Testament.  However, they dismiss much of the rest of the Old Testament, and don’t view the exhortations to, for example, kill adulterers, as having the same authority.

            Those people are fools.  They suffer from the inability, or unwillingness, to bring their capacity for reason to bear on the supposedly “revealed” text that is the Bible.  Consequently, they find themselves believing or saying foolish things.

            This is not to say that fools are unworthy of pity, or a degree of respect, but to consider their internally inconsistent beliefs to be as well-founded as those of people who recognize the fallibility and historical context of supposedly “sacred” texts (Bible, US Constitution, etc) is to descend into an abyss of false equivalence.
            If you decline to judge those who find comfort in poorly founded and incorrect religious beliefs, then you must also decline to judge those who find comfort in nihilism, drugs, sex, illusions, false superiority, entertainment media, etc.  You thereby give up your right to judge anybody.  Are you really willing to do that?  Based on your body of work, I doubt it.

          • Gregg

            Yea, but your implication is Republicans are hypocrites and fools. It’s a stretch.

            I don’t think nihilism, drugs, sex, illusions, false superiority, entertainment media, etc. provide answers to purpose and the comfort of inner peace. I was talking about something a little more profound. And I think it’s above my pay grade to assume anyone has poorly founded and incorrect religious beliefs just because mine are diffferent. I’m okay with judgment if someone is a narcissist or serial abuser of women but that’s different.

          • Patrick

            There are no implications – I’m telling you exactly what I think.

            And from my perspective, someone who believes that the earth is 5000 years old, or that the fact that they grew up in a particular religious tradition means that they have an objective claim to religious truth, or that there’s a magic man in the sky who loves Christians and not Muslims, or loves Baptists and not Catholics, or loves Catholics and not ethical Humanists, and will save one and condemn the other to eternal punishment, is living in the grip of a fantasy.  Maybe it makes them feel better; so what?  Anyone who believes these things certainly has the right to do so, but if they don’t want to be viewed as foolish by those of us who are better at thinking, then they should keep their views to themselves.

          • Gregg

            You assume a lot. Spirituality is not the literal interpretation of King James’ version. There’s a little wiggle room to say the least. I  also think it’s quite an assumption to think your thinking is uniquely superior. Look up and contemplate infinity, explain what’s on the other side of the edge of the universe and why. You don’t know any more than the rest of us.

          • Patrick

            That’s true.  The differenceis thatI admit what I don’tknow.

          • Modavations

            Are you homosexual?.Get the chip off you’re shoulder.Laissez faires couldn’t care less about race,sex,etc,. we care about money.I currently date a Venusian.

          • Patrick

            Yeeeck… that sounds like the overture to a proposition, and I’m not interested.  Nothing personal… well, no, actually it is personal.

            Anyway, your point about “Laissez faires” is a non sequitor.  I’m talking about that cohort on the right that thinks there’s a biblical basis for bashing gays.  Don’t pretend they don’t exist. 

          • Modavations

            You’re hanging with the wrong crew.I don’t know one.

          • Patrick

            Well, I don’t know one, but I know that they exist.  Remember DOMA?

          • Fietsbode

            You (only) care about money? Then you’re pathetic. 

      • Modavations

        I haven’t the slightest as to what you’re going on about.I’m agnostic,the only time I believe in god is during the take off and landing of my jet.Then I’m wigglin my toes and saying,”sweet Jesus,I’ll be good,just get me back down.”

        • Patrick

          I guess I’m basically going on about the absurd religious hypocrisy of the right.  The cognitive dissonance necessary to trumpet Christian values and the ethics of greed in the same sentence.  Al Franken may have said it best, in his illustrated comic “The Gospel of Supply Side Jesus:”

          “If people knew I was healing lepers, there would be no incentive to avoid leprosy!”

          http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/09/17_franken.html

          • Modavations

            Still haven’t the slightest..What do you mean by greed?Al Franken,worked for Air America which went bankrupt because it was nothing but hate speech.The head of Air America was indicted for embezzeling from some sort of Boy’s Club ,he was running.He was diverting the money to keep Air America alive.Are these the values of which you speak?

          • Patrick

            Close… Air America went bankrupt because there was no audience.  The appetite for, and susceptibility to, hate speech radio exists only on the right.

            Left-leaning intellectuals like myself prefer the stimulation afforded by NPR, and we leave you to your paranoids (Beck), apparatchiks (Hannity), drug addicts (Rush), whiny blowhards and perpetual victims (all of the above).

          • Modavations

            Are you telling me the founder didn’t get busted for stealing money from poor kids.You’re hardly an intellectual if you find that acceptable.In my opinion,that is

          • Patrick

            Nope, that’s not what I’m telling you.  But I’m surprised at your note of concern – Isn’t stealing money from poor kids a foundational plank of the Republican platform?  After all, they deserve to be poorer, because they’re poor… right?

          • Modavations

            Absolutely not.

          • nj

            Never tiring of making bogus claims devoid of any relation to facts, Modaspew blurts out, “Are you telling me the founder didn’t get busted for stealing money from poor kids.”

            “Fraid not, Sparky. The founders of the network had nothing to do with the loan (not “theft”) by Evan Cohen, who was board chair of Air America at the time. Cohen resigned, under pressure from the board, from Air America. There’s no evidence any of the on-air people knew of the incident at the time it was occurring.

          • Modavations

            What does Moda spew do for this conversation.Please,exactly how old are you?

          • Fietsbode

            You obviously don’t give a damn about poor kids, so your example is hypocritical. 

          • Modavations

            Wasn’t it Stefanie M that had the theme song,”You lying,sticking stinking lying,stinking bag of sh-t.In my neck of the woods that’s hate speech and hardly intellectual.How do you know who I listen to.

          • Patrick

            Well it’s not hate speech if it’s true; otherwise it would be hate speech to suggest that people to listen to talk radio are less informed than people who listen to NPR.

          • notafeminista

            It’s not hate speech if it’s true?

    • nj

      That’s stupid, even for you.

      • Modavations

        Do you not understand my point,or is The Parable of the Fish,unkown to you

        • Patrick

          “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Matthew 19:21)

    • Tom

      To Modavins: 
      Jesus was a liberal, and he was not a Christian. He was more like a Buddhist than a Jew or a Christian.

      • Modavations

        Jesus was a right wing Social Worker.You guys told the masses ,show up every night at 5:00 PM and we’ll feed you fish.Jesus came by,said let me show you how to fish for yourself.When you get rich,spend some at my Jesus Habedashery shop.

        • Tom

          Jesus is on Occupy Wall Street’s side.

        • Fietsbode

          Jesus threw the moneylenders out of the temple and said that the rich man had no chance of getting into heaven. He said, suffer the little children to come unto me. He did NOT say “when you get rich” or “I’m gonna open a shop” or “if you can’t fish, screw you.” It is you, Modavations, who distort and dishonor the teachings of Jesus. 

  • Worried for the country(MA)

    God bless Tim Tebow …

    …except against the Pats next week. :)

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      He is a nice kid. I like him but I hope Broncos lose this weekend.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

    Tim Tebow was Born in Manila, Philippines Tebow was born in Makati City in the Philippines, to American parents who were serving as Christian Baptist missionaries at the time. His mother, Pamela Elaine (née Pemberton), is the daughter of a U.S. Army colonel, and his father, Robert Ramsey Tebow II, is a pastor.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      That’s why Tim Tebow is very religious because of the parents background and his Family religious belief remains in the Philippines or should I see continue their mission in the Philippines.

      That’s explained the Missionary Hospitals.

  • Hennorama

    Mr. Tebow has had unanticipated success which has made for great TV.  But he is not a great NFL QB, and his winning streak will come to a thudding end at some point.

    He is of course free to express his faith as he sees fit.

    I personally don’t think this phenomenon of athletes expressing their faith has any place on the field of play.  Tebow is just the latest and most blatant example of this phenomenon.

  • MarkKnoeller

    The power of affirmation regardless of religion or philosophy is a very useful tool, and can make our lives better.

    • Patrick

      Indeed.  A pretty irreligious view of religion, but I completely agree.

  • ElfmanNW

    What a silly program, about a silly man, who makes a lot of money playing a silly game.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

    Tim Tebow was home schooled but in 1995 his parents moved back to United States. They stayed in Florida because a law was passed that children of home schooled can attend high school and play football. His parents had a very dangerous job in Mindanao, A muslim dominated island in the Philippines.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      Filipinod are 80 percent Catholics and the rest is Protestants,Mormon,Muslims,Hindu,Buddhist and more.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

        Tim was preaching to 10,000 high school students in Digos, Mindanao. Yes, for the Filipinos Tim Tebow is a man of something but in America his religious belief is worthless.

  • James T. E.

    I’ve always thought that praying to win a game is a form of taking the Lord’s name in vain, in vanity.  When millionaire players do it in any sport, it seems tacky.

    Tebow sure is playing some great football right now.  He’s fun to watch and reminds me of Michael Vick.

    • Zing

      I agree.  This trivializes God’s work. 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

    off topic – Tedy Bruschi the former New England Patriot player is 1/2 Filipino and Italian. he is now a sport commentator of ESPN.

  • Guest

    Tom, I am a big fan of On Point but I am disappointed that you would waste an hour on a non-story that really only exists because ESPN has successfully created artificial hype around this one professional football player.

    • Jwest Cid

      I’d like to join in your disappointment, but I’ve too many discussions of this topic in other venues. Let’s not ignore it.

  • Anonymous

    Speaking as a fellow Christian, I’m thinking Christ would view all of football as an abomination. No one cares about the players who can’t walk anymore, and then there is the pugilistic syndrome that acts like Alzheimer’s. Would Christ care about football? Football players, sure. But not this stinking, boring game. Tebow might pray about that next time.

  • Zero

    Ideology or Religion…?  The Bible has one statement on Homosexuality that is mentioned next to sex slave laws and so on.  Abortion is even hazier.  There is no clear law on abortion and God seems to be a fan of the practice. Nonetheless, these are the two issues become ‘public’ Christianity; whereas, to be wealthy is immoral throughout the entire Bible.  Jesus did not say one word about abortion or homosexuality, but he raised a lot of class warfare.  In America, Abortion and homosexuality are public Christian issues where the government should be involved.  And on the other hand, greed is a private Christian issue.  And I dare say that Christian conservatives don’t even believe that there is such a thing as greed.

    Ideology or Religion?

    I have always liked Tebow as a football player, but his family has always been stinking rich preachers, erasing whatever cultural fabric the Filipinos have left.  

  • Markie

    Living in a galaxy 100,000 light years across, and delusional humans like Tebow pollute our space. Just pathetic.

    • Jwest Cid

      I am not religious but I find your reference to any living being as pollution to be shallow and ill-spoken.

      • Markie

        The shallowness is you inability to accept pap for what it is.

  • Gregg

    Religion seems to me to be a very personal means of dealing with ones mortality. I remember thinking during Pope John Paul’s final struggle how comforting his faith must have been at his moment of demise. Is it too much to wish that same peace for everyone? No one knows what happens when you die. No label you wear (Muslim, Christian, Atheist) changes that. What’s so hard about respecting each others beliefs?

    If Tebow feels it, it’s cool with me.

  • Njhoverman

    You go Gregg…..

  • sam

    NPR, which is financed by the tax payers and tax free foundations, has a history of being ANTI Christian and this Tebow talk is a good example.  Ashbrook’s questions seem obviously slanderous and mocking of Tebow or any Christian.  This is a form of bigotry.  Enough said. 

    • Markie

      The brainwashed cry bigotry cus therapy hasn’t released the chains that bind them.

    • Fietsbode

      You must have listened to this report with deaf ears. There was nothing anti-Christian in it. If the media errs, it errs in the direction of appealing to popular opinion. If popular opinion suggests that God is a sports fan, the media will mindlessly recycle such nonsense. A true Christian would reject the notion. See my comment on theology. 

  • notafeminista

    Patrick:  Except you are unwilling to admit you don’t know there is a God.  You are certain He/She/It doesn’t exist, except you don’t know why.

    • Patrick

      Oh please.  I am certain that there is no legitimate reason to believe that God exists.  I am also certain that there is no reason to believe that vampires exist.  God and vampires have equal standing, with respect to the epistemological basis for belief in their existence.

      I’ll be willing to acknowledge the possibility of God’s existence when you’re willing to acknowledge the possibility of the existence of vampires.

      • notafeminista
        • Patrick

          Ha!  Okay, I was wrong – I guess there’s more reason to believe in the existence of vampires than the existence of God.  As an atheist, I find that positively delightful.

          I guess I need a more fantastical example than vampires.  How about unicorns?  If you’re willing to acknowledge the possibility of the existence of unicorns, then I’ll acknowledge the possibility of the existence of God.

          • notafeminista

            Your mind isn’t open enough.  We’re done here.

          • Modavations

            Dude,you’ve been wrong about everything.

          • Patrick

            And yet, for some reason, you’re unable to explain why you believe this.  Must be an article of faith; maybe a unicorn told you.

          • Modavations

            To a Democrat ATheism is  religion.The first thing the Communist does is ban religion.Their god is the State

          • Zero

            How is atheism a religion?  There are no creeds or threats of hell or promises of heaven.  Atheists are not dogmatic, we just require testability, observable repetition, empiricism, evidence–otherwise belief is based solely on emotion and desire. 

  • Nicole Mclernon

    I loved this.  I am a huge Tebow fan and a huge Pats fan.  So this Sunday is going to be fascinating.  :)

  • Ed Hawkes

    I’m not a particularly religious person but I’m somewhat of a Bronco fan. I find Tebow to be a pretty good guy and an excitingly unorthodox player. He’s a devout christian but I don’t find him sanctimonious, nor is being religous unusual in the NFL.

    There seem to be people out there who flat out hate him, and as far as I’m concerned that tells me alot about them and nothing about Tebow.

    • Anonymous

      I tell you Tebow fans one thing…..Lawrence Taylor would have really gave him something to pray about, that’s for sure.

  • notafeminista

    Zero: Apparently atheists don’t require anything of the sort as evidenced by the exchange with Patrick.
    Atheists make assertions of certainty and then are unable and/or unwilling to substantiate them, falling back on the old saw that a negative can’t be proven. Atheism requires, in fact, a leap of faith, and to say otherwise is intellectually dishonest. One doesn’t need threats of heaven or hell. Atheists have baseless certainties they know better than everyone else and assert they are right simply because.  What is more dogmatic than that?

    • Zero

      There is only one certainty: that there is either a god or not.  Now that being said, you and I have not seen or observed a god.  It is not testable and there is zero empirical reason to believe that there is a god.  What is left if an emotional reason to believe that there is a God. Sometimes emotional intelligence good when coupled with reason, but when it is strictly emotional, you got a problem.  You can’t get around that.  You have yet to show me evidence of a God, and I don’t have to provide evidence of nonexistence because it is impossible–that is why the burden is on you.  (E.g., you can’t prove to me that the Purple People Eater is not god…where’s your evidence the Purple People Eater is not god?)  You see how that works? I want to live forever too, but I don’t delude myself because I know that what I want does not determine reality.  All I can do is hope, but I don’t turn that hope into faith in order to distort the reality of death.

      Personally, I don’t even know what atheism means–what I do know is that whether a god exist or not doesn’t matter–what matters is an afterlife, and again my desire for an afterlife does not determine that there is indeed an afterlife.  I guess what atheism means is that I and others like me are not in a denial of death.  You are. 

      • notafeminista

        So did Christ exist?

        • Zero

          Christ is a literary character; a hermetic god rewrite of Dionysus and more humanly Socrates.  The Gospels were written 40 to 100 years after Jesus supposedly lived.  There could have been a homeless guy with a cult following at the time, but everybody who wrote the New Testament never met “Jesus.”  There is more reason to believe Socrates was a real man than Jesus–that is where I stand. 

          • notafeminista

            And 50 years ago music only came on vinyl, 100 years ago it was imposible to to go the moon, 200 years ago surgeons didn’t wash before surgery and 800 years ago “science” thought the sun revolved around the earth.  Imagine what we might “know” tomorrow

          • Zero

            You are proving my argument.  Science corrects all things including previous science.  I have know doubt that our understanding of the universe will be improved in the future, but only by science, not religion.  God didn’t get us to the moon, science did.  So yes, Imagine what we might “know” tomorrow and tell your fellow Christian conservatives to quit standing in the way of science.

            And religious people thought the sun revolved around the Earth, not scientists–in fact Mariners knew the Earth was round thousands of years before Columbus.  Scientific exploration has undone religious superstition for a very long time and will continue to do so.  Religion has fought the science book for hundreds of years and the science book has always won.  This is not dogma–if you can posit a better philosophical argument for determining reality than the scientific method, then please  do so…until then you are looking at reality through a kaleidoscope of nonsense. 

            But basically, you are the one not willing to imagine what the unknown might be–that’s why you give up questioning and concede to faith.   

          • notafeminista

            You missed the point.  All of those things happened because someone was willing to say what if?  Religious people didn’t tell surgeons not to wash their hands and it wasn’t religious people who kept us from going to the moon.  As for science and religion I point you to Francis Collins, former head of the Human Genome Project, current head of the NIH and evangelical Christian.  Lefties don’t like religious people because they can’t control them.  I can tell someone not to pray for me all day long, but in the end, I can’t make them stop.  When you try to, that’s when you get gulags and re-education camps.

      • notafeminista

        Because you know there is no afterlife?

        • Zero

          Because you know there is no Neverland?

  • Akfaka

    Religion is like dirty underwear, please stop showing your underwear in public, keep it to yourself! 

  • Fietsbode

    I am a descendant of many generations of Calvinists who believed that God was stern, inscrutable, and unmoved by human entreaties.

    The American notion that God is a sports fan and takes sides is blasphemous, if you are truly devout, and ridiculous, if you are not. 
    It implies that an omnipotent deity is entertaining Himself while his creatures are starving, being abused or murdered, buried in earthquakes, drowned in floods, etc. 

    If NPR must cover such a story, surely it could include a serious theological* and/or secular** critique. 

    *the views of someone who has studied many centuries of theology 

    ** the response of someone like Sam Harris or Richard Dawkins

     

  • Fietsbode

    reject it * as offensive, I mean. 

    * the notion that God is a sports fan

  • Zero

    notafeminista:

    No, Lefties don’t like Christians who try to control other people.  We
    have no problem with the Jews for example.  And I personally have no problem with
    private Christianity.  I believe in self-mastery, nothing more.  If a
    Christian speaks up, I feel I have the right to call them out on his or
    her beliefs.

    Second, I know about Collins.  But let me submit George Bush who blocked
    stem-cell research, which was restarted by Obama–and now the research
    has made groundbreaking progress on fighting heart disease.  Because of
    Bush the research is years behind, causing people to die sooner than
    need be.  That is the kind of superstitious-based abuse I talk about.  I
    don’t through all Christians into an anti-science group–I clearly
    delineated “Conservative Christians” who are impeding progress.  There is only one thing fighting science–religion.  You can have your religion, but this is a secular country.  Our Constitution is the prototypical Enlightenment document, where there is not one word of “God,” and freedom of religion (which by the way the Christian God is not a fan of).  I could not care less if you remain a Christian or not–what I care about is people like you electing George Bush, a person who has zero desire to increase life expectancy. 

    You see, issues like abortion and homosexuality are more about Christian Conservatives trying to control people more than anything else. (Read my religion or ideology comment below.)  But thankfully, we have a secular Constitution and a coequal judiciary branch of Government.  And once the gay marriage issue gets to the supreme court, gay marriage will be legal.  Which is good because Government shouldn’t try to control behavior that is not immoral.  I don’t try to control other people’s sexuality and courtship, and I don’t try to control a woman’s body.  I don’t tell Christian that they have no right to believe in Jesus.  And I don’t tell them they will go to hell for not believing a certain religion.  (Of course I recognize that you have not told me I’m going to hell, but people have not been as polite in the past.)  Bottom line is that I don’t care what you believe, but if you are going to bring it into the fray, then you are going to get an argument.  I have no church to convert you in and have you feed a collection plate.  My biggest ambition I have when I argue religion with people is that they do what Jesus says, and keep your religion out of the public and “in the closet”;i.e., in private.

    And I didn’t miss the point.  Faith is a lack of imagination.  Faith is where people go when they’re too tired of searching for the ‘truth’ they’ll (in all likelihood) never find.  If you want to see things differently, then start praying to God with your eyes open.  

    • notafeminista

      And when an atheist (or secularist or humanist or whatever) speaks up  I have the equal right to call them out for their beliefs.

      And as for George Bush and the stem cells, you left out one important item in that he blocked embryonic  stem cell research and for good reason.  Have you read the science on it?  The results are horrific, and thus far have not proven themselves to be of use.  George Bush did not and does not have any problem whatsoever with adult stem cell research. 

      No..secularists and atheists and humanists don’t try to control a specific action by people.  They just try to control people and when they can’t, they put them in jail.

      • Zero

        First off, you completely ignored the report about heart-disease and stem cell research–there are wonderful, life saving research emerging.  And you are once again proving my case.

        Second, your final claim is completely unsubstantiated and ridiculous.  Look, at how Newt Gingrich is mad at appeals courts because there are too many secular decisions–well guess, what?  The Constitution is a completely secular document without one word or “god.”  It is an Enlightenment document to the core.  If the courts are making secular decisions, they are making the right decision because we have a secular constitution. You know the Enlightenment–a philosophical movement emerging out of centuries of religious totalitarianism.  That is what religion is–it is thought-crimes…I cannot think in certain ways…I cannot believe in other gods and so on…that is the purest definition of capital T Totalitarianism. 

        And it is all held together with this little word “faith.”  Faith is what blinds you from rationality, logic, and the commonsense that the idea that God would impregnate a virgin with himself, to sacrifice himself, to enable himself to forgive human beings for being human beings…and if you don’t believe, he casts you down to his eternal gas chamber.  Faith blinds you from objective reality.  Most religious people’s definition of faith is believing in things not seen–in fact that was the definition you provided me.  Well, if you can’t see something, then what are you?  You are blind, and once again you are proving my point that it is all in your imagination.  So okay, I concede a little that people of faith have imagination, actually certainly that is true–but your imagination only bends reality, it does not determine reality.  And it certainly is not seeing reality objectively.  Yet, the politics of your ideological Christianity insist that objective reality is what your religious imagination says it is.  That is quite dangerous, especially since you are an ideological and not actually to the finer and more humane points of the Bible, which are indeed the dominate themes throughout that fine work of literature (I presume) you have never read cover-to-cover.

        But seriously…how old are you…30s, 40s, 50s…hypothetically say that you have never heard of the Bible, never heard of the stories, nothing, and then one day you randomly pick it off the shelf at a library and read it…would you say to yourself, “Oh yes, this is reality…burning bush, flood, virgins, water-into-wine, Apocalypse…that sounds about right…I believe it”…?  

        ————————————————

        Threatening people with the violence of hell in order to coerce people to believe means that Christianity is a terroristic religion.  I have no problem with people believing in an abstract idea of God…and I really don’t have a problem with non-ideological, private Christians.  And I’m glad you are willing to debate this…but I am not glad that you vote for policy that harms people in the name of religion. 

        Susan Sontag wrote a good book on totalitarianism.  You should read it.  And by the way, governing without compromise is called totalitarianism.  Cutting funds to the courts erodes our democracy because low income people can’t afford court fees and representation–and where I live in Florida appointed representation is conditional in order to save the rich from a tax hike.  Do you get it?  Do you get that liberals, for better or worse, believe in the principles of democracy more than conservatives?  And nothing preserves democratic representation more than a secular constitution.    

        • Zero

          Excuse me, the book is “The Origins of Totalitarianism” by Hannah Ardent.  Not Sontag…I was thinking of Sontag’s “Fascinating Fascism,” which is another good read.  

    • notafeminista

      Faith is exactly the opposite of the lack of imagination. Faith is the thing that lets us say what if.  Look at this exchange between you and I.  Your position is that people of faith are somehow lacking in intelligence or creativity or open-mindedness all the while you are the one saying what people of faith think is not possible.  People of faith are willing to consider there might be something out there beyond what they can see.  Secularists are not. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/lordbeaker Eric Lilly

        Secularists are people who live their lives in reality, and learn from research what makes things work. “say what if” I could possibly be givin a billion dollars tomorrow. Why should I work then if I have faith in that?

        Here is the real deal… People who base their lives in reality, and have the scruples to better their lives with scientific research based off empirical evidence rather than saying “what if”, are the people who are actually willing to consider there is something out there beyond what they can see. They then find out whether or not it’s true and continue on with the same method to better the lives of everyone on this planet.

        • notafeminista

          Sure, until something jars their so-called reality – and then secularists get all exercised and decide to start shoving people into re-education camps.

  • Zero

    Notafeminista, (Please ignore responses below; I was lazy with grammar)First off, you completely ignored the report about heart-disease and
    stem cell research–there are wonderful, life saving research emerging. 
    And you are once again proving my case.Second, your final claim
    is completely unsubstantiated and ridiculous.  Look, at how Newt
    Gingrich is mad at appeals courts because there are too many secular
    decisions–well guess, what?  The Constitution is a completely secular
    document without one word of “god.”  It is an Enlightenment document to
    the core.  If the courts are making secular decisions, they are making
    the right decision because we have a secular constitution. You know the
    Enlightenment–a philosophical movement emerging out of centuries of
    religious totalitarianism.  That is what religion is–it is
    thought-crimes…I cannot think in certain ways…I cannot believe in
    other gods and so on…that is the purest definition of capital T
    Totalitarianism.  And it is all held together with this little
    word “faith.”  Faith is what blinds you from rationality, logic, and the
    commonsense that the idea that God would impregnate a virgin with
    himself, to sacrifice himself, to enable himself to forgive human beings
    for being human beings…and if you don’t believe, he casts you down to
    his eternal gas chamber.  Faith blinds you from objective reality. 
    Most religious people’s definition of faith is believing in things not
    seen–in fact that was the definition you provided me.  Well, if you
    can’t see something, then what are you?  You are blind, and once again
    you are proving my point that it is all in your imagination.  So okay, I
    concede a little that people of faith have imagination, actually
    certainly that is true–but your imagination only bends reality, it does
    not determine reality.  And it certainly is not seeing reality
    objectively.  Yet, the politics of your ideological Christianity insist
    that objective reality is what your religious imagination says it is. 
    That is quite dangerous, especially since you are an ideological Christian and not
    actually a religious Christian who follows the finer and more humane points of the Bible, which are
    indeed the dominate themes throughout that great work of literature (I
    presume) you have never read cover-to-cover.But seriously…how
    old are you…30s, 40s, 50s…hypothetically say that you have never
    heard of the Bible, never heard of the stories, nothing, and then one
    day you randomly pick it off the shelf at a library and read it…would
    you say to yourself, “Oh yes, this is reality…burning bush, flood,
    virgins, water-into-wine, Apocalypse…that sounds about…I believe it”…?   ———————————————————Threatening
    people with the violence of hell in order to coerce people to believe
    means that Christianity is a terroristic religion.  I have no problem
    with people believing in an abstract idea of God…and I really don’t
    have a problem with non-ideological, private Christians.  And I’m glad
    you are willing to debate this…but I am not glad that you vote for
    policy that harms people in the name of religion, which basically means you are imposing religious dogma in the laws I must live within. Hannah Ardent wrote a good book called “The Origins of Totalitarianism.  You should read it.  And by the
    way, governing without compromise is called totalitarianism.  Cutting
    funds to the courts erodes our democracy because low income people can’t
    afford court fees and representation–and where I live in Florida
    appointed representation is conditional in order to save the rich from a
    tax hike.  Do you get it?  Do you get that liberals, for better or
    worse, believe in the principles of democracy more than conservatives? 
    And nothing preserves democratic representation more than a secular
    constitution.    

  • Zero

    Notafeminista, (Please ignore responses below; I was lazy with
    grammar):

    First off, you completely ignored the report about heart-disease
    and stem cell research–there are wonderful, life saving research emerging. And you are once again proving my case. I have no moral problems with stem cell research–in fact, I am donating my organs and giving my body for scientific research instead of thinking that I am some temple that needs a suit, a pillow, and a box. Second, your final claim is completely unsubstantiated and ridiculous.  Look, at how Newt Gingrich is mad at appeals courts because there are too many secular decisions–well guess, what?  The Constitution is a completely secular document without one word of “god.”  It is an Enlightenment document to the core.  If the courts are making secular decisions, they are making the right decision because we have a secular constitution. You know the Enlightenment–a philosophical movement emerging out of centuries of religious totalitarianism.  That is what religion is–it is thought-crimes…I cannot think in certain ways…I cannot believe in other gods and so on…that is the purest definition of capital T Totalitarianism. 

    And it is all held together with this little word “faith.”  Faith is what blinds you from rationality, logic, and the commonsense that the idea that God would impregnate a virgin with himself, to sacrifice himself, to enable himself to forgive human beings for being human beings…and if you don’t believe, he casts you down to his eternal gas chamber.  Faith blinds you from objective reality. Most religious people’s definition of faith is believing in things not seen–in fact that was the definition you provided me.  Well, if you can’t see something, then what are you?  You are blind, and once again you are proving my point that it is all in your imagination.  So okay, I concede a little that people of faith have imagination, actually certainly that is true–but your imagination only bends reality, it does not determine reality.  And it certainly is not seeing reality objectively.  Yet, the politics of your ideological Christianity insist that objective reality is what your religious imagination says it is. That is quite dangerous, especially since you are an ideological Christian and not actually a religious Christian who follows the finer and more humane points of the Bible, which are indeed the dominate themes throughout that great work of literature (I presume) you have never read cover-to-cover.

    But seriously…how old are you…30s, 40s, 50s…hypothetically say that you have never heard of the Bible, never heard of the stories, nothing, and then one day you randomly pick it off the shelf at a library and read it…would you say to yourself, “Oh yes, this is reality…burning bush, flood, virgins,
    water-into-wine, Apocalypse…that sounds about…I believe it”…?  
    ————————————————————-

    Threatening people with the violence of hell in order to coerce people to believe means that Christianity is a terroristic religion.  I have no problem with people believing in an abstract idea of God…and I really don’t have a problem with non-ideological, private Christians.  And I’m glad you are willing to debate this…but I am not glad that you vote for policy
    that harms people in the name of religion, which basically means you
    are imposing religious dogma in the laws I must live within.

    Hannah
    Ardent wrote a good book called “The Origins of Totalitarianism.  You
    should read it.  And by the way, governing without compromise is called totalitarianism.  Cutting funds to the courts erodes our democracy because low income people can’t afford court fees and representation–and where I live in Florida appointed representation is conditional in order to save the rich from a tax hike.  Do you get it?  Do you get that liberals, for better or worse, believe in the principles of democracy more than conservatives? And nothing preserves democratic representation more than a secular constitution.    

  • notafeminista

    The same logic and common sense that kept the Church from entertaining Galileo’s experiments?  It wasn’t religion that stopped Galileo, it was thinking that refused to consider all that was possible. 
    And I stand by my statement – the Left doesn’t like the faithful because they cannot control them, and when they cannot, they put them in jail.
    Read “A Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich” – a gulag mate imprisoned for no other reason than being Baptist.

    Think beyond that which you cannot see.

    • Zero

      No, we are not trying to control you.  We are trying to keep the Constitution and the laws secular (which means everybody has equal protection under the law).  The Christian right is trying to control beliefs and behaviors (most notably gay rights).  And prohibiting gays from equal rights is unconstitutional and will be proven so in a few years.  The law prohibiting gay rights is a nice example of superstitious-based abuse.  No drinking on Sundays is another law borne out of the Christian right, that I recently had to obey.  Ultimately, we have a secular court in which the religious right constantly wants to infuse their religion.  This is currently a huge problem in Egypt–the conservative Muslims are going to turn State Law into Sharia Law or whatever their ideological version of Sharia Law they want.  The only way for Egypt to maintain democracy is a secular constitution.  Get it?

      The truth is, you are the ones already controlled.  You don’t even believe in the principles Jesus talks about (and I have read enough of your comments over time to see that).  You follow the principles of right wing ideology. 

      Next, Stalin dissolved certain churches and used others.  Religion has always been used in totalitarian governments to control the masses.  Napoleon once said, “The only thing keeping the rich from murdering the poor is religion.” This is why the Enlightenment was so dangerous to plutocracies.  Religion keeps people down and living terrible lives while under the illusion they are going to heaven once they die. 

      My dad (before he retired) was a top tax bracket republican and an atheist.  But he was the only atheist I knew of who liked Christianity.  He thought it was complete nonsense, but he knew Christianity made people vote against their economic interests.  If I was trying to control you and people like you, I would be like my dad and be a closet atheist defending Christianity. 

      I am trying to show you that you are controlled–everybody is controlled to some extent, but especially if you haven’t read the evolution of philosophy and theology throughout Western thought that have formed the ideas, beliefs, and morals you and I currently hold. 

      • notafeminista

        Some inconsistencies in your argument: “Religion keeps people down and living terrible lives while under the illusion they are going to heaven once they die.”
        1)Can you at least concede you have no idea what happens after we die?  No one does. That is incredibly intellectually dishonest to say you do.  I have no idea, but I’m willing to consider the possibility of a heaven where are you are not.
        2)Terrible lives in what way exactly?  Financially?  Intellectually? Emotionally?  Politically?   Terrible is a matter of perspective.  I’m sure even as you and I have this exchange you assume I live some form of a terrible life – even though you know nothing about me.
        3)Do you want to control me on the individual level?  Mmmm no not really.  But the Left very much wants Christians (and Christians only mind you ) to please go away and not speak of their faith in public lest a wandering atheist overhear the discussion.  Muslims, Buddhists, Sikhs are fine with the Left. 
        4)What do you care whether or not I uphold any or all of the principles espoused by Christianity.  You don’t believe God or Christ is real.  Why do you spend so much time worrying or talking or concerning yourself with that you are certain does not exist?  This should be a non subject for you.

  • notafeminista

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/04/AR2005090401004.html

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=embryonic-stem-cells-cause-cancer-i-2009-02-19

    http://health.usnews.com/health-news/blogs/heart-to-heart/2009/03/04/why-embryonic-stem-cells-are-obsolete

    With 18 seconds of research – and for the record, President Bush only denied public funding of embryonic stem cell research.  Scientists were (and are) welcome to explore whatever private means were available.  Judging just by these, it’s not wonder the money isn’t there.

    But hey, let’s do it anyway in spite of the science!

    • Zero

      You are simply wrong about the new science emerging from stem cell research–Obama opened up the research less than 3 years ago and already (and again) heart disease will no longer be America’s top killer in the very near future.

      Second, another thing conservatives don’t get is that our universities innovate at light speed compared to the private sector.  Funding to the universities is necessary if we want to become an innovative country.   And the science is there because stem cell science has shown success in lab mice specifically and mammals in general.  The research is limited with humans because of Bush and the religious right. 

  • Zero

    And you do realize that those articles came out before or during the time Obama started to fund the research that has already made a break-through on heart disease, (which was on the nightly news about 2 weeks ago).

  • notafeminista

    Yes…adult stem cells, taken from the patient’s own heart…according to The Lancet via Forbes
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2011/12/04/stem-cells-show-promise-for-repairing-damaged-hearts/

    The article very clearly says  “embryonic stem cells may prove even more effective”…which thus far is all anyone is willing to commit to.  There is yet one publicly or privately funded research study with successful use of embryonic stem cells, and nothing found that indicates science has found a way to control the mutations embryonic stem cells are prone to.

  • Sy2502

    Yes I am absolutely certain that god takes time to help a football player win his game while at the same time, which is what keeps him too busy to help the 15 million children who starve to death every year. Because god has his priorities straight.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IHJZWRJLWJZPTR3CHL2PCBHPBE Brian

      If you cant feed dont breed. That is out of GOD’S hands he doesn’t tell a loser to screw a loser therefore having a baby who wil starve.

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