Week In The News: Payroll Tax, Europe In Trouble, Gingrich Soars

David in Middlebury VT

I am generally supportive of our President, but consider the extension and expansion of the payroll tax cut both foolish and dangerous. Obama is either naive or duplicitous in advocating for this at a time when Social Security is under attack. The last thing we need is a further erosion of the Trust Fund which underlies this critical program. Obama, whether knowingly or not, seems to be playing right into the hands of McConnell, Ryan, Cantor and their cohorts who are all too eager to preside over the destruction of Social Security itself. As we’ve seen from the Bush tax cuts, these “temporary tax cuts” have a way of becoming permanent, and any attempt to end them is quickly interpreted as a “tax increase”.

Terry Tree Tree

You have some good points there!!   The Republican HYPOCRITES, keep saying they are against raising taxes, but the tax cuts for the rich equal higher taxes, permit fees, and other government fee costs to the poor and working class!�
    Whining $BILLIONAIRES, and $Millionaires, and their paid lackeys, say they don’t know how they will get by with just a few $ Million, or $BILLION, when they’re forcing people out of their homes that are paid up to date, defrauding the government, and the people, and committing so many crimes, it takes a Super-computer to keep up with them!
    GREEDY rich, if YOU can’t get by on a few $Million, try it on Minimum Wage, with less than 40 hours pay!!
    GREEDY rich have promised JOBS for the past ten years, with the TAX CUTS for the rich!!   Ten YEARS of JOB CUTS, is all they have to show for all that stolen Lucre!!
- William
  
  But it is all about “being fair” right? 47 percent of working Americans don’t pay any Federal income tax so why raise taxes on those that do pay? After all, we want to be fair right?
  - Yar
    
    And the illegal picking your tomato is a free loader. You have such a simple view of the economy it is probably pointless to reply. On who’s sweat are all taxes earned. The world market puts a person’s own sweat at about 2 dollars per day. We earn much more than that by using other peoples sweat. That is why I said the rich are tax collectors. I am against slavery, economic or otherwise. You would tell me to get a job, I would reply for you to go to work. Do something useful, build the community, teach a child, do something other than just entertaining yourself. I get really angry when I hear the poor pay no income tax.
    - William
      
      The illegal working on your home is part of the human trafficking network. Both parties allow it to continue and try to pass it off as “kindness” to allow it to happen. The myth of helping the poor by raising taxes is really being beat to death. They are being used as a tool to punish those that have more rather than make for a better economy and society.
    - nj
      
      As if making the obscenely rich pay their fair share is “punishing” them.
      
      This is what passes for right -wing ideology.
  - TFRX
    
    Anyone else want William to clap his yap on his claptrap, or at least stop parrotting propaganda like it makes a point?
    
    You’re invited, W, to join those folks and worry about all the other taxes they pay.
    - William
      
      You are always afraid of the truth.
    - nj
      
      ^ Wouldn’t know truth if he tripped over it and it got all over his face.
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      Actually, as you should know, I support William’s 1st Amendment Rights, as well as the others, that I served my country to preserve. I would like to know his status and background, to perceive why he takes his positions.�
      I won’t be calling him names, or trying to censor him.
    - TFRX
      
      I’m not trying to censor him. When he prattles on with his claptrap, I don’t “flag” him.
      
      What I’d like is something akin to meatspace where someone pribbles their prabble like he does, and suddenly finds themselves alone with nobody listening. Abandoned at a cookout, if you will, speaks volumes about how little interest one’s ideas generate. On the internet there’s no such thing as an “ignoring” button.
      
      That is effective in letting people know one’s opinion without censorship or threats or feeding a troll.
      
      Disqus needs something like it.
    - nj
      
      Back in the day, when AOL had extensive discussion forums, as horrid as they were in some ways, they had a feature that allowed users to ignore selected handles.
      
      Posts from chosen handles just didn’t show up in the string. Made the forums easier to deal with when the obvious trolls and idiots could be edited out.
      
      Disqsucks should have something similar. Perhaps they do for those who “register,” but since i refuse to “register” for online stuff unless i absolutely have to, i don’t know for sure.
  - nj
    
    Right-wing disinformation alert!
    
    http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3505
    
    Plus, the top 400 taxpayers have more wealth than half of all the lowest-earning Americans combined. Taxes on the wealthiest are the lowest in decades.
    
    This is the system the right wingers want to protect.
Newton Whale

The Trust Fund has not been reduced by the payroll tax cut:

“The 2010 tax law temporarily reduced employees’ share of the payroll tax by 2 percentage points, to 4.2 percent from 6.2 percent. The law provides for the transfer of general revenues from other sources into the Social Security trust fund to make up for the reduction in payroll tax collections.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/28/us/politics/senator-questions-extension-of-tax-cut.html

Democrats are proposing that a renewal of the tax cut be paid for with a surcharge on income over $1 million, which would again prevent the trust fund from being affected.

The fact that you did not know this is entirely understandable, as many reporters and news anchors do not seem to know this important fact. Witness this astounding display of ignorance by a purported news anchor, Erin Burnett:

BURNETT: It’s a popular tax. Both sides of the aisle, everybody likes it. Paying for it another issue, but let me just ask you two questions on that. One, the costs I’ve seen are somewhere between 110, $115 billion to provide that payroll tax relief. That’s money that isn’t going to go into funding Social Security, which is what that tax is intended to do. Are you willing to write into legislation we’re going to find that money because you know now it’s two years and it’s such a popular tax cut, you know hey, it could be years before we start putting money back in that Social Security fund.SPERLING: So let’s be very clear. The way that this tax cut happened in this year and we’re proposing next year would be that you would absolutely, by law, strict policy, every penny would be replaced with Social Security Trust Fund, would not hurt Social Security one penny.BURNETT: Where would it come from?SPERLING: You transfer from general revenues to make sure that you are not doing anything to hurt Social Security. The way the president’s proposed this right now is that we would raise enough money to pay for this so that it would not affect general revenues or affect the Social Security Trust Fund, and we do that by asking the 300,000 Americans who make over $1 million to pay just a little bit more you know in the future and that money is then used to give a tax cut to every small business in this coming year and every worker.

http://www6.lexisnexis.com/publisher/EndUser?Action=UserDisplayFullDocument&orgId=574&topicId=100007219&docId=l:1552737112&isRss=true&Em=4

That conversation took place two days ago, nearly a year after the payroll tax holiday went into effect.
- William
  
  A simple ten percent across the board spending cut would pay for this tax cut. Why raise taxes?
  - denis
    
    and specifically who / what 10% do you propose we not fund?
    - William
      
      Cut across the board, everything, cut it.
  - TFRX
    
    Uh, 1) it’s exactly what the GOP wants at this point in the business cycle, so that makes it perforce a bad idea for the economy.
    
    2) Why don’t our Birthrighteous right-wingers and Republicans ever manage to do this when they’re in power, in the middle of (oh let’s say) a 5-year expansion?
    - TFRX
      
      Clarifying my own pronouns: Paying for a tax cut with a spending cut means no increase in gov’t spending+tax cutting, which at this point in the business cycles is stupid.
    - William
      
      Because they were stupid and pushed the false idea that government spending will solve all problems.
    - TFRX
      
      Sounds like you, Mr.
      “reasonable Republican”, have a beef with the GOP.
      
      Let’s you and them fight.

Terry Tree Tree

How many of the ‘leaders’ of Europe, and the U.S., have LEAD by cutting their income and assets, by more than the percentage they receive over the poorest workers?
   ANYONE that calls for sacrifice, should MAKE the sacrifice FIRST, and BIGGEST! It’s just HYPOCRACY, if they don’t!!
   It’s going to be interesting to see how Herman Caine’s wife handles the revelation that her husband SECRETLY gave a LOT of financial ‘assistance’ to another woman, durring the time he has also been accused of sexual harassment by two other women!
    Maybe he’ll follow Newt’s example, and blow a LOT of money at Tiffany’s on her?
    Nice to hear that the REMARKABLE lady in Burma, is going to run for the office she was elected to so long ago!
    Will we get more information on the attempts to declare U.S. Citizens as terrorists, and hold them without the RIGHTS established in the Constitution?
    Aren’t those pushing this, the party that keeps claiming they want to follow the Constitution?   HYPOCRACY!!

Terry Tree Tree

SO MUCH HYPOCRACY, so little time to expose it!!

margbi

Please learn to spell. It’s “hypocrisy” according to my Random House Unabridged Dictionary.
- Terry Tree Tree
  
  Thanks! Will try.

Michiganjf

The Senate approves a $662 billion defense bill despite the presidential veto threat, then rejects a bill to extend the payroll tax cuts… what the hell is wrong with these Senators, both Dems AND Republicans??? These dirtbags simply won’t heed the priorities outlined by a majority of Americans in poll after poll!!!

Also, where is the Tea Party outrage now that Bloomberg news exposed a bank bailout under Bush that was ELEVEN TIMES (11X!!!) the now quaint TARP bailout, which was also a Bush giftie-poo to Big Banks and insurers?

… maybe now these boneheads will give President Obama a break, since he’s outright miserly with Federal money compared to his Republican predecessor!

We’re still looking at Obama leaving the yearly deficit considerably lower than where Bush left it at 1.4 trillion/year!

Terry Tree Tree

RIGHT ON!!

Yar

“Young men dream dreams, while old men have visions.” It only means old men don’t sleep all that well. It is 2 AM and I feel another old farmer rant is about to erupt.

“I don’t think there’s any question that the payroll tax relief, in fact, helps the economy,” Boehner said. “You’re allowing more Americans, frankly, every working American, to keep more of their money in their pocket. Frankly, that’s a good thing.” Except we don’t have more money in our pocket.

The rich have been collecting “taxes” from us workers all along, only they are not passing those ‘taxes’ on to the Government. This is the root of our deficit for the past 12 years, it is called the Bush tax cut. Look at the debt, and look at who got the lion’s share of wealth since Bush cut taxes. Our labor earns the wealth for this county including the wealth of the rich. When we work for them or even as they steal our pensions from the stock market, the real wealth comes from us (the workers’ sweat.) The rich have always been ‘tax collectors’, and just as in Jesus’ day, they are taking more than their fair share of our labor. It is time to end the Bush tax cuts permanently! Wages have been flat ever since they were enacted, real inflation for poor people is high. Food, education, fuel, healthcare, that is what the working poor people buy. The rich buy up our homes when they are foreclosed because we can’t pay our bills with whats left on the wages the rich are paying us. They say inflation is low and home values have dropped. They lie. Rich people’s inflation may be low, but our inflation is high. This is how our country got so divided and we must fix it before we fall into a civil war.We can pay our national debt through higher taxes, we can pay our debt through inflation, if the rich won’t pay their fair share then we must refuse to work. We need a national day of protest, just like in they had in the UK. The rich are running this nation into the ground. It is time for a true account of where the money went! We have the power. We are 297 million strong, What will 3 million rich people do when we refuse to work? We give value to their wealth. As John Boehner said, “Frankly, that’s a good thing.”

Stierman-in-Boise

America is in decline plain and simple. China on the moon, hitching rides into space on Russian space craft. Roosevelt’s New Deal aka social safety net disassembled, Johnson’s Great Society rolled back a Republican tax-less Nirvana. What’s next privatization of the Interstate Highway System and death to the Eisenhower Act?

William

What part of the Great Society has gone away?
- SuperFiat
  
  The $. The ability maintain the illusion by the elite that we all live by the same rules regarding money representing honest value, representing honest chunks of productivity against scarcity.
  
  We gave up the control of our currency and we gave up our defense against elite tyranny.
  
  Political (We the People) control of currency, like other aspects of Self-Government, takes vigilance and would have its risks and pitfalls, but fully giving it away has taken us nearly to a point of no return in the End Game.
  
  IMO “liberals” and mainstream GOP clowns who ignore the debt/currency issue are:
  
  A) Ignorant
  B) Willful and never intend to pay it down, hoping/believing they will be on the right side of the masters who pick up the pieces.
  - William
    
    The “elites” never live the same way or follow the same rules as the average person. Not now, not throughout the history of mankind.
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      Therefore they know NOT of what they want to control! Except that it gives them MORE POWER, to wield in ignorance!

Winston Smith

The payroll tax cuts are really a reduction in social security collections, money which should be set aside for future generations’ social security payments when they retire. The government is doing what it does best: kicking the can down the road. The cuts should be offset in someway with higher social security collections (e.g. on those whose income is above the $106,800 current limit) so that the required money is actually collected and “set aside” as it will be needed when the baby boomers retire and the amount paid out begins to exceed the amount collected.

This is the tip of the iceberg as far as kicking the can down the road, however. The $2.5 trillion trust fund surplus out of which future benefits will be paid is really a mirage and is not really “set aside”. The federal government has borrowed it to finance its deficit, will never really be able to pay it back other than to continue running the printing presses or simply borrowing it from some other entity foolish enough to lend it to the federal government. The reason is that there is no hope of the federal government actually stopping or reversing the annual deficits that have been contributing the to national debt for the past 50 years (and increasingly during the past 10 years with Bush tax cuts/unfunded wars and Obama “job creation stimulus” programs).

As I have said in many previous posts, government accounting is a fraud. If private industry did their accounting this way, they would end up in jail. The type of accounting gimmickry is what people are rightly condemning Wall Street/big banks for. One of these days, the world will wake up, realize the fraud that has been foisted on the American public for the past 50 years, and the whole system will collapse.

Yar

The $2.5 trillion trust fund surplus out of which future benefits will be paid is really a mirage and is not really “set aside”.�
Winston, how do you set aside a fiat currency? Would you put it in a bank and have the banksters leverage it 40 to 1? That has not worked out very well so far. No, the numbers are not our debt, our debt is our kids we didn’t educate, infrastructure we did not build, and the failure to move past fossil fuel. �
Yes, Social Security payments have been used to lower taxes in the general fund, that isn’t what matters. The idea (covert plan) that we cut SS payments to future retires does. We each have about 1.5 to 2 billion heartbeats in our lifetime. People who sit at a desk may be able to work to an older age, but those who build stuff with their own sweat simply can’t continue to work to older and older ages. If you want a revolution, simply remove the hope from blue collar workers that they are ever going to be able to retire, and that their children are not going to have it any better either.
- SuperFiat
  
  IMO the covert plan has always been to pretend the fiat currency has enough value to keep the masses tethered to participating in the “work for pay” charade, but to knowingly use debt spending to pay for wars of domination and political promises of the month, which logically leads to destruction of the currency, allowing for a “crisis” into which can step charismatic leaders and calls for even more centralized, unaccountable, and undemocratic control for our own good.
  
  ”
  German Fears About Inflation Stall Bold Steps in Debt Crisis”
  
  NY Times
  
  Looks like the Germans have enough brains and backbone to stay in touch with the lessons they learned.
  - SuperFiat
    
    In case people forget, or have been helped to, the whole concept of a gold-standard, or some objective standard that links currency value to scarcity, and makes it very difficult to manipulate, came about precisely to address.
    
    Do you deny that currency standards existed? Why did they exist? $hits and giggles?
    - Anonymous
      
      Are you saying you support the gold standard?
    - Roy Mac
      
      another gyno-economist Randian.
    - Anonymous
      
      You mean superfiat I assume.
    - Roy Mac
      
      yes.
    - SuperFiat
      
      Roy Mac is a Central Banker.
      
      http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj30n3/cj30n3-3.pdf
    - SuperFiat
      
      I am saying what Yar is recognizing too…
      
      “the idea to tie work to a value that is not easily manipulated is useful.”
    - Yar
      
      Gold makes no more sense than shells used thousands of years ago. What we really hope to do, is trade work over time. The ‘market’ has taken that away with fraud, shorts, and leverage, all done in the name of finance. It is nothing more than a tax on the flow of money. Value is made when someone put energy to useful work. We have been living on the sweat of the farmer, the miner, and the factory worker across the world for the past 100 years. Those used to be our jobs, now we sit in front of screens and pretend to work, and employers pretend to pay us. This whole game is rapidly spinning to point of no possible civil resolution. That is why I keep repeating we are in a generational civil war. Gold will not prevent revolution, but the idea to tie work to a value that is not easily manipulated is useful. I would tie it to energy. What if minimum wage had to always be at least two gallons of gas? Maybe three gallons before taxes. How would that change our economy?
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      I thought you are a farmer! You sit in front of a screen and pretend to work? At farming? Construction hasn’t got to that point yet.
    - Yar
      
      I live on a farm, I am trying to find a way to make a living farming, but I am not willing to make it by exploiting the labor of others. There is only so much one guy can do. I am in competition with those who do exploit the sweat of others, so my value is about the same as the illegal who picks your supermarket tomato. I am interested in agricultural robotics. If I can teach a robot to pick tomatoes or distinguish a weed from a vegetable plant, then I will sit in front of the screen and farm. I am working on fences today. The cows, (my version of the stock market) need new pasture. Time for lunch.
- Winston Smith
  
  I agree that the money shouldn’t can’t sit in a mattress but that you earn interest on it by lending it out to a financially responsible party (that leaves the federal government out). Federal finances are a sham ($15 trillion in debt and increasing by $1+trillion each year…Greece and Italy demonstrate that it can’t continue indefinitely?). Also, we spend plenty of money on infrastructure, education, etc. Spending more is just giving in to the the greedy teachers’ and other government “workers’” unions desire for largess. I do think that we should raise the retirement ages for teachers and government workers. Being able to retire at 55 while the rest of us have to work until we are 67 isn’t fair. It isn’t that strenuous to lean on your shovel.
  - Terry Tree Tree
    
    Have you actually done teaching? Road work? Construction?
    I HAVE, and your perception is true about a SMALL percentage that gets MOST of the attention!
Anonymous

I guess you forgot about ENRON.
- Winston Smith
  
  Jeffe68,
  
  I am against waste, fraud, and abuse no matter who commits it. I am all in favor of locking fraudsters in jail and throwing away the key. Whether it be the public sector, the private sector that then comes to me for a bailout, etc., I have to be careful and make intelligent choices in how I use my limited income to cover my expenses. I expect the government to do the same.
Terry Tree Tree

Many Banksters, Investment Brokers, and others have committed FRAUDS, and have never even been CHARGED?
- T3goofball
  
  Proof?
  - nj
    
    Have you been living in a cave for the past four years?
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      Probably a golden tower!

Dee

If the Republicans don’t give on the payroll tax and the un-
employment benefits, plus medicare and other such social�
measures (such as the Jobs Bill) I say they should get ready�
for another like Storming of the Bastile. People are feeling�
so angry and so short changed by the money class and their�
representatives in Congress…..

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

The greatest news this week is the Attorney General Office of Massachusetts Martha Coakley and her team of lawyers for suing the BANKS that caused the Great Recession. �
�
The Banks that destroyed the meaning of middle class in America, The predatory lending to signed Sub-prime mortgages
to innocent non speaking Americans will not able to understand.
�
The Voice of the 99% and OWS has been heard in Massachusetts let domino effect topple across America let other States follow Massachusetts
In our fight for rights to be middle class again.
�
Newt Gingrich will never do anything great this week, next week and for the rest of his life.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

Massachusetts politicians support the OWS and 99%because they heard the American people will continue to support the middle class and the poor. Mayor Menino, the Office of the Governor and Federal judges has supported the American people. thank you

SteveV

I’d like to hear more about the Federal Reserve decision to swap dollars for euros. If Europe gets its act together and the situation is resolved, great, the Fed will look like heros. But what if Europe fails to save the euro, or they simply print more euros, and the Fed’s investment loses value? Why does this sound like “Bailout, Act II”?

Yar

Watch John Stewart’s take on the 7 trillion dollar Fed-Bank financial pump.�
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-december-1-2011/america-s-next-tarp-model

Ed

Geron Corp. is exiting the field (of embryonic stem cell research) it pioneered in a calculated business move that underscores the long, costly path embryonic stem cells face to become real-world products.

Late Monday, the company said it would halt its study of a stem cell-based treatment for spinal cord injury, the first embryonic stem cell trial approved in the U.S.

Yar

Good morning Ed, the coffee shop is now full. It is a beautiful day.
Brett

Now, see, I would have thought God would have waited until the Geron Corp. actually developed a product from their research so He could show his wrath by creating some sort of disaster!?!
Anonymous

Last week His Eminence Cardinal Law retired from his esteemed position in Rome. The Vatican has not confirmed that he left to apply for the job as Penn State football coach.
- Terry Tree Tree
  
  EXCELLENT!!!
Terry Tree Tree

Catholics want to clone children to molest?

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

Shrinking reply box means to avoid never-ending arguements.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

hey!!! They fixed the reply box.
- http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68
  
  MY BAD IT IS NOT FIX

Brett

The photo and caption provided for this segment makes a morning coffee seem special! …Newt! At Tommy’s HAM House!!!

Gregg

“You took guys who built something, and you said ‘there’s a guy who
accomplished something.‘ You didn’t say, ‘that guy didn’t pay his fair
share.’ That guy paid millions of dollars last year, and you paid shi*t
and you’re pissed at him?”

Comedian Adam Carolla is right on with his rant about the OWS movement. Strong language warning:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/adam-carolla-breaks-down-occupy-movement-fking-self-entitled-monsters/

Edited bleeped version:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/hear-the-edited-version-of-adam-carollas-epic-rant/

Anonymous

Awesome Clip!

Adam said what everyone knows but no one wants to say in public in fear of offending someone.
- Gregg
  
  It gave me chills.
  - nj
    
    Put on a sweater.
- Anonymous
  
  Go ahead talk some BS. You guys are just adding to the problems as is Adam. He’s a little confused about wall street and the people who built things, such as our interstate highway system. Wall Street has built nothing, nada.
  - TFRX
    
    I never knew of Carrolla’s politics, but he seems like another one of those celebs who should keep his mouth shut lest he “remove all doubt”.
    
    Is it just me or is the distribution of politically self-embarrassing celebrities not random w.r.t. the political spectrum?
  - SuperFiat
    
    Embrace your inner libertarian and sound-money proponent so you can both hold his views, AND be able to make a principled rant against the banker/Wall St. class in your next breath.
    
    This is the division. There is alot of truth, even if some hyperbole in what he is saying, but you are forcing yourself to pretend its not true, or convince others its not true, to support the partisan liberal line.
    
    And then you can lump all you anger against successful, or simply responsible people, INCORRECTLY smearing them with the same brush as you rightly should the corrupt banking/monetary class.
    
    Their are world views, based on historical, empirical observation, that let you see both points of view and move forward.
    
    Its all whether you feel we are at heart individuals who should be free to make choices and suffer or gain from the consequences, and to be free to go forward exploring and experimenting in this world so long as you don’t harm others ability to do the same.
    
    We should try law enforcement via our self-government against the elite before we accept their central planning dream thinking they have our individual best interests in mind.
Anonymous

You know the weird thing is I could say the same thing about the wall street guys. I tried to listen to this guy but his ranting was so full of crap and my kid just destroys his notion of what he is a saying. She works two jobs and does not expect anything to handed to her on a platter.

ClearThinking

Recently,
a large amount of media attention has been devoted to the US migration toward
net exporter status with respect to refined petroleum products. EIA figures last week showing 2.8 mb/d of product
exports balanced against 2.3 mb/d of imports, a rather dramatic transition for
the US, which had averaged 1.7 mb/d of net product imports between 2005 and
2010. It’s nice to finally see some good news. If Congress and the White House don’t blow it, we can keep this going!

Anonymous

Good point. I hope the administration stops blocking the oil pipeline from Canada! It sounded like it would create a lot of jobs and help lessen our addiction to foreign oil.
- Anonymous
  
  This was stopped by the people of the state of Nebraska were in the forefront of this. That the US government is now looking into it and the concerns of the good people of Nebraska is a good thing in my view. By the way the governor of Nebraska is a republican.
  - Anonymous
    
    I thought it was stopped by brave Obama trying to put the issue off until after the election so he can disappoint the environmentalists after he already has his second term.
    - Anonymous
      
      No it was the governor of Nebraska who put pressure on the Feds.
    - ClearThinking
      
      That is your interpretation of Obama’s decision, but it was his, period.
    - Anonymous
      
      You seem a little confused. The federal government has the authority to stop the project as it crosses many state lines. However as I keep stating this was originally a grass roots campaign brought on by Nebraskans. Funny how you seem to be against the idea of the Federal government and yet you want your Medicare and SS benefits. By the way the payroll tax cuts wont effect your benefits.
    - ClearThinking
      
      Get your head out of your ample keister. I only said the decision was the federal government’s. Moreover, you’re a fool to not recognize the fungibility of money in Washington.
    - http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68
      
      im shrinking
    - ClearThinking
      
      I
  - Anonymous
    
    The Obama administration blocked a Canadian company from restarting its controversial oil pipeline on Friday, concluding that “continued operation of the pipeline without corrective measures would be hazardous to life, property and the environment.”
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/03/keystone-oil-pipeline-restart-blocked-agency_n_871235.html
    - Anonymous
      
      Spin this anyway you want. It was the governor of Nebraska who started all of this. The Obama administration came to these conclusions after these issues were brought to the table by the citizens of Nebraska. What part of this do you not understand?
      It was people of Nebraska who started to question this whole thing. You what gets me about some of you so called republican and libertarian folks is how you talk a good game of people would have these rights and when they go and express them you all just fold up like a bunch of wimps. You side with the corporate interest, a foreign one at that. To me the people of Nebraska have done what every read blooded libertarian should be proud of. They spoke up about their rights to control their land.
    - Anonymous
      
      Republicans always stick up for their own rights. How many pipelines not going through Nebraska have they supported?
    - Anonymous
      
      Actually, it was the people of Nebraska who pressured the governor into calling a special session to control the route of the pipeline.
    - Huffpolibgarbage
      
      huffpo spin, you’re kidding, you might as well give up, you lied and people died
- Vtcheflw
  
  The jobs are an illusion. Trans-Canada would have you think it’s making a lot of jobs, but the really is about 30 permanent jobs once the pipe line is up and running. Not the huge boost to the job market being claimed.
  There are a lot of things Tran-Canada, and the oil industry in general, would like us to think. The environmental dangers of oil are ridiculous. Why so you think the environment reviewer for this project was basically Trans-Canada. No real review would finds this thing to be safe.
  - TFRX
    
    Didn’t they inflate the hiring numbers by interpreting “work years” as jobs?
    
    Wasn’t it a switcheroo that “10,000″ jobs means “10,000 people working for exactly one year each”?
    - Vtcheflw
      
      Yep, smoke and mirrors that’s the name of the game.
- Terry Tree Tree
  
  Will you drink up ALL that gets spilled?? You didn’t clean up the Deepwater Horizon spill single-handed!
  - Anonymous
    
    Would you rather have oil spills 1 mile under water or on the surface? I would much rather have an oil pipeline spill then another Deepwater Horizon. If we are not allowed to explore the easy oil locations we will be forced offshore creating lots more Deepwater Horizon moments!
    - Anonymous
      
      Are you really this misinformed? That pipeline was going to go over one of the Ogallala Aquifer is one of the largest in the world. About 27 percent of the irrigated land in the United States overlies
      this aquifer system, which yields about 30 percent of the nation’s
      ground water used for irrigation.
    - TFRX
      
      It’s not about information, but mindset: Brandstad doesn’t get his water from the Ogallala; apparently it stops just dozens of miles west of Iowa’s western border.
      
      This is the flipside of the same coin of “Why build infrastructure that I won’t personally drive on?”
    - Anonymous
      
      What am I misinformed about?
      
      I know there is an underground aquifer hundreds of feet under the pipeline.
      
      Can you tell me how many, days it would take an oil spill to seep down to the aquifer if it was unnoticed?
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      The oil, coal, and gas industry are SO GOOD about keeping track of leaks and safety hazzards?
    - Anonymous
      
      They would have to be idiots to produce a product (oil, gas, etc.) and just knowingly let it leak. It is in their financial interests to get every ounce of their product to market to sell not to mention the fines and other government incentives for them to do business safely.
    - TFRX
      
      Not to mention the fines?
      
      You really need to read up on your history. For the last decade, “Republicans” and “enforcement” have have almost nothing to do with each other.
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      Then you called them idiots!
    - Anonymous
      
      You are totally ignorant in this regard. The aquifer along the propose route of the pipeline is, at some places, literally on the surface, and mostly just a few feet below the surface. This ain’t Utah.
    - Anonymous
      
      Please teach me by providing your source for your claims.
    - Anonymous
      
      I live there. I am familiar with the land. Just go to Google earth and look at all the lakes dotting the Nebraska sandhills. Those are the aquifer rising to the surface. The aquifer is not way below ground, although it is very deep in some areas. I’m sure there are many websites you can go to but here is one from a few seconds of searching:
      
      http://www.hpwd.com/the_ogallala.asp
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      He doesn’t CARE, if HIS water doesn’t depend on it! Probably doesn’t know if it does!
    - Vtcheflw
      
      How about we put a stop to both and start working on the economy that need no fosil fuels. It is an evitablity that we will need to solve that issue someday. Currantly, we are thirty to forty years of R&D behind on solving that problem because of oil interest influance. We don’t need to make the sixty years!
    - Anonymous
      
      As a nation, we don’t have the technology to go off fossil fuels and we are broke! We can’t afford it right now. Maybe in 5 years we can, but it isn’t a priority right now!
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      The technology has been there for decades! BIG OIL, and BIG COAL have spent $Billions to suppress and denigrate the truth, as Big Tobbacco does about their faults!
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      My point exactly!
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      LOUSY CHOICES, compared to MUCH cleaner, FAR less expensive renewables, Wind, Tide, Solar, etc…!!
- Terry Tree Tree
  
  Why are you against the State of Nebraska’s right to protect its people from a Foreign company running a dangerous pipeline through their state, to export that oil to other countries?
  - Anonymous
    
    This oil from Canada is not going to be exported outside the US. I am siding with the US consumer that wants cheep energy from our continent rather than expensive oil from overseas!
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      Tar sands oil costs MORE in energy, to extract, than it sells for!   That’s cheap energy?
         The wind is free energy, the sun is free energy, the tides are free energy!�
         The devices to utilize these, are less-costly, than those that utilize oil, coal, and natural gas.
         The extra costs of pollution, make them FAR MORE expensive in health-care costs, and a LOT more costs their proponents HIDE!
    - Gregg
      
      The green energy initiative was money down a rat hole.
    - Anonymous
      
      Do you live in CA because you are obviously high.
      
      If tar sands oil costs MORE in energy, to extract, than it sells for, then who is the idiot running the company with a Solyndra model of economics (input costs more then finished good sales price)?
      
      wind, the sun, and the tides are NOT free energy! It takes millions of dollars to build windmills, solar panels, and turbines to capture that energy and when you do the math even wind and solar companies admit that they can not compete with cheep coal, oil, and gas without the federal government paying them to make energy!
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      You obviously are TOTALLY ignorant of the prices of getting oil, coal, and natural gas, MUCH LESS tar sands oil! Try some research! �
      Look at all the costs of getting coal to the power house, and then the costs of building and maintaining a coal power house! You will QUICKLY change your tune!
    - SuperFiat
      
      If the markets were truly free/fair and not crony or subsidized, we would know the answer.
      
      Heaven forbid.
    - Anonymous
      
      You are on course to be wrong about everything you have posted about this today. The oil from the tar sands is NOT now, and never will be, dedicated to U.S. use. One would have to be utterly clueless about the oil business to think otherwise.
    - Anonymous
      
      Please provide your source for your claim!
      
      It makes no economic sense to ship the pipeline oil overseas and ship overseas oil here.
      
      Anyone with a little common sense knows US companies will pay more for the oil coming out of the pipe than they will for oil thousands of miles away!
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      They aren’t even doing that now!! The Alaskan Pipeline is an EASY example! Oil to Japan and China!
      Many other examples!
    - Anonymous
      
      So you are telling me that you are equally likely to buy a car from California as you are a car within 60miles of your home?

denis

Will someone please explain to me how Newt Gingrich gets a pass by the “social conservatives” for his bad behavior? He is still on the list of those that could be endorsed by the Family Values organization in Iowa. This is the misguided organization that pushed to vote against Iowa Supreme Court judges that declared same sex marriage legal in Iowa. Divorce is referenced [in a negative sense] many more times than same sex marriage in the Bible.

Gregg

I don’t think it’s written anywhere that Republicans are ineligible if they’ve ever divorced. Reagan did okay.
- denis
  
  Are you saying “Family Values” include divorce?
  - TFRX
    
    Compared to the Valuistas caught toe-tapping for gay sex in restroom stalls and cruising rentacabanaboydotcom, Newt’s got some work to do to stand out!
  - Gregg
    
    I’m saying Republicans don’t have a monopoly on family values and a divorce can be in the best interest of the family. I don’t see it as an issue.
    - denis
      
      I guess you can justify anything if you so choose…. Do you also justify Newt’s multiple ethics violations while he was speaker [and yes they were violations as determined by congress and fines were paid].
    - Gregg
      
      I was commenting on this the other day, I was paying close attention at the time and never could figure out what he did. Do you know? I think Bob Dole loaned him the money to pay the fine. You wrote “multiple,” please elaborate. IMHO he was the most productive Speaker in my lifetime. America benefitted greatly but the credit all goes to Clinton for some reason.
      
      BTW, I don’t justify adultery, I hate it but it’s not my business.
    - Worried for the country(MA)
      
      He was a productive speaker and deserves credit. However, once he consolidated power he flamed out. You know the saying about power and corruption.
      
      Has he changed? Maybe but there is scant evidence he has the temperament to be an effective President.
      
      I want to give him a chance but the deeper I look I see troubling evidence. Just look at the Freddie MAC consulting issue.
      
      $1.6M for consulting as a historian? And he claims he told them their policies were ‘insane’. Unfortunately for Newt they have him record extolling the virtues of Fannies policies right before the housing collapse. Any objective observer has to conclude they were paying Newt for Republican support and votes. However, Newt has NEVER lobbied. Bull!
      
      He is certainly an interesting character but right now I think he is better suited running think tanks. His ideas appear to be a 50/50 proposition at best.
    - Gregg
      
      I’ve been following him fairly closely since he was Speaker and am somewhat satisfied by his explanations but yours is a very fair assessment.
    - denis
      
      How about the book deal, his tax supported partisan class, his wife’s $2,500 a month salary for starters… The violations were strong enough that congress, republicans and democrats voted for the sanctions. As to Dole paying the fine – another example of Newt spending other people’s money to support his indiscretions.
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      ‘Conservative’ Republicans CLAIM the Moral High-ground, using $Millions of taxpayer money to investigate and prosecute Bill Clinton, while ignoring the perfidities of Newt, Foley, Larry Craig, and a long list of ‘conservative’ Republicans! HYPOCRICY!
  - Terry Tree Tree
    
    ‘Family Values’ includes divorce, homosexuality of Larry Craig, attempted child molesting of Foley, cheating on your spouse multiple times, betraying Oath of Service by AWOL, betraying Oath of Service with desertion, stealing by using office to fill their own pockets-directly or indirectly, and a cornucopia of other transgressions they preach against!
Terry Tree Tree

Because CHEATING on your wife only counts if you are NOT a ‘born-again’, ‘conservative’, ‘Christian’!!

Anonymous

Key Charts From The NFP Report: Records In Jobless Duration And People Who Want A Job As Civilian Labor Force Plunges!

Here are the four most important data points and charts from today’s job report: the civilian labor force declined from 154,198 to 153,883, a 315K decline despite the civilian non-institutional population increased (as expected) from 240,269 to 240,441: always the easiest way to push down the unemployment rate. Percentage wise this was a drop from 64.2% to 64.0%: the lowest since back in 1983. Naturally, this would mean that the people not part of the labor force rose, and indeed they did by 487,000 to a record 86,558 from 86,071. This also means that more people are looking for a job: and indeed, the number of “Persons who want a job now” rose by 192K to a record 6,595 million. And lastly, confirming the behind the scenes disaster of the US jobless picture, the average duration ofunemployment rose to a new record 40.9 weeks from 39.4 weeks previously. And that is your “improving” jobless picture in a nutshell.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/key-charts-nfp-report-records-jobless-duration-and-people-who-want-job-civilian-labor-force-plu

Anonymous

CHART OF THE DAY: THE SCARIEST JOBS CHART EVERRead more: http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-percent-job-losses-in-post-wwii-recessions-2011-12#ixzz1fO4riTlf

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1816544 Dan Trindade

In regards to the Euro crisis, I wonder if Angela Merkel’s cautious (dare I say timid?) approach to the challenges ahead and her focus on austerity over smart (read efficient and balanced) growth in debtor nations like Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal will cause more harm than good. The EU should have been far closer to the United States of Europe with a unified central government and fiscal policy from the beginning instead of something akin to the Articles of Confederation with zero fiscal unity. These are brave new times and as such they require drastic actions by the parties involved, whether the concept of reduced state sovereignty is palatable by political elites or not.

ClearThinking

Easy to say in retrospect, and never would have happened in any case. The crisis might force the discussion, but no one, elite or not, wants the Germans determining how they spend their money.
- http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1816544 Dan Trindade
  
  Of course they don’t. But given the choice between dissolution or unification, all be it with far more power in the hands of Germany and France, what do you think they will settle on? It appears to be a damned if they do damned if they don’t situation and I’m guessing they’ll choose unification if only because it will hurt less than dissolving EU and abolishing the Euro.
  - ClearThinking
    
    It may be necessary, but it will require giving up more of their national identity, not an easy proposition.

ClearThinking

As a Medicare beneficiary and SS recipient, payroll taxes should not be cut at the expense of these promises.

Anonymous

You might want to work on that clear thinking some more.
- Terry Tree Tree
  
  Expressing clear thinking requires clear thinking, and other skills.
Terry Tree Tree

Why not tax the rich, that PROMISED to CREATE JOBS, with those tax-cuts? They are getting RICHER, while making the nation POORER!!
Take back ALL the taxes, with penalties, interests, and put these FRAUDS in REAL prison, where they belong!

Dee

Why should anyone be listening to the Republicans today…..?
After they rubbered stamp Bush’s misled War into Iraq and theexpansion of that war today into Afghanistan, plus advocated “freedom” in the marketplace to deregulate the markets (SeeURL) and rip off investors, dismissed EPA upgrades on the basis they were “too expenses” while they were making money hand over fist and argued science has it “wrong” on global warm-ing…Now, they are proposing states and employers pick peoples pockets on health care benefits, pensions and social security. Or better yet –hand the job over to them….( After, all they claim to be the party of “fiscal responsibility” They should all be booted out today and placed on the endanger species list….It would serve them right!!!!!DeeThe Tax Cut Racket (Republican), Paul Krugman, NYT
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/17/opinion/17krugman.htmlMc Cain Spouts policy Platitudes Instead of Solutions to Housinghttp://thinkprogress.org/economy/2008/03/24/172123/mccain-housing/Preparing and Bracing for New Emissions Rules , NYThttp://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2011/02/14/14greenwire-epa-budget-proposal-focuses-on-air-and-climate-79655.html?pagewanted=all(Note how all those corporations have been ducking doing theirpart for the environment and the health and well being of the nation and indeed the world … )

Terry Tree Tree

RIGHT ON!

Rex

I hope everyone doesn’t expect to go back to the boom period (bubble) we were having before the recession once we get out. �
I fear that politicians will use pre-recession numbers to complain why more isn’t being done.

TFRX

Wait a sec, Nancy Cordes said: “A plan put forward by the Democrats in the Senate failed?” Is this “60 is the new 51″ so ingrained in our reporters that it doesn’t even bear mentioning any longer?

Why are we killing ourselves worrying about paying for this right this very second, at this point in the business cycle? And can we get a real economist on this panel on this subject?

Terry Tree Tree

The Muslim Brotherhood made gains in Egypt, because they are one of the only groups that were able to survive as anything of a political group, during MuBarak’s reign.

Dee

Addendum: Why is anyone still listening to the Republicans?

The Tax Cut Racket, (Republican) Paul Krugman�
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/17/opinion/17krugman.html
Mc Cain Spout platitudes instead of solutions (housing crisis)�
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2008/03/24/172123/mccain-housing/

Preparing and embracing New Emissions Rules…..
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/26/business/energy-
environment/26emissions.html

(note how all those corporations have been ducking their
responsibility to do what is right for America & the world.)

Anonymous

Tom, why don’t you put this tax cut in perspective. Doesn’t the payroll tax income go to fund social security? Isn’t that why the republicans don’t want to empty the so called SS trust fund?

Terry Tree Tree

If the banks no longer hold mortgages, but sell them to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, CUT POUT these expensive middle-men, and have agents for Freedie Mae and Freddie Mac make the loans, on salary, or a small commission, or better, a combination of both, with penalties for bad loans!

NathanD

Geez. What a one-sided discussion on the air. Talking about ganging up on Republicans! How about some objectivity?

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

The Republicans are *not* victims. They have to work in the political reality that they created.

Neil
Terry Tree Tree

Republicans have been ganging up on the working-class citizens for decades!! They have even got corrupt people in black robes to give them EXTRA votes, as citizens!!

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1816544 Dan Trindade

Viva progressive tax rates.

Terry Tree Tree

I will GLADLY forego payroll taxes, if they will RESTORE the taxes on the rich to the Regan era levels.
When I have to pay taxes on my physical efforts, with ALL the costs and risks, WHY don’t people that use money to make money, have to PAY MORE of a percentage?

David Schwartz

Let the millionaires take the standard deduction!

Fjg47jr

Why isn’t anyone on the panel pointing out that the Republicans want to protect the wealth of the “job creators” by CUTTING JOBS? Or don’t federal workers count as Americans?

Gregg

Before a Federal employee can be paid the money must first be taken from someone else, borrowed or printed.
- Anonymous
  
  So given that almost half the Federal payroll you are against is the military I guess we should start with those government employees. By the way your comment here about borrowed or printed is leaving out revenue. I tell you what, if you don’t want a federal government or the services why don’t you start with yourself. Start by not driving on the roads or using any government services.
  Such as the police or fire department. Or even the airways.
  - Gregg
    
    reductio ad absurdum
  - Terry Tree Tree
    
    GOOD START!!
- Fjg47jr
  
  and how do you get paid? does it just materialize in some private-sector dream, or does it have to come from someone (like a federal worker, say) spending money so your boss can pay you? Turn off Fox Noise and tune in to reality!
  - Gregg
    
    I get paid by someone voluntarily trading for my service. That person got their money the same way. Money in the private sector stays in the private sector and the pie grows.
    
    I don’t follow your last question, if you want to elaborate I’ll try again.
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      Do you let government workers, unions, and others that you are so out-spoken against, KNOW your position, so they can reward your playing accordingly?
    - Gregg
      
      I am not against federal workers or private sector unions. I just think government is too big. That does not mean (as Jeffe absurdly suggested) that I want no military or roads.
      
      I do not mix politics and music. If a federal worker is in the audience that’s fine. They are not paying me to talk politics.
- DoahDoah
  
  Genius-less – That’s how our whole fractionally reserved, fiat based currency system works.
  
  Look it up.
  - Gregg
    
    I don’t print, borrow or take anyone’s money when I buy something. I earn it.

Dee

Addendum: Republicans ducking their responsibility on�
EPA Emissions rules….NYT

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/26/business/energy-environment/26emissions.html

Caleb from Jamaica Plain, MA

Jack Beatty, old faithful, your answer to my question was spot on and constructive. Thank you!

Don’t let the Brookings team pressure you rightward.

Anonymous

Cain… Secret phone calls at wee hours of the morning. I think the phone records speak for themselves….
Republicans… why are the Republicans polluting our Zeitgeist with this hypocrisy and unimportant drivel. While people are starving and being thrown out of their homes they waste time like sponsoring bills reaffirming our national belief in God, as if God is not watching their every move!

Terry Tree Tree

We can only HOPE! Too bad God is taking so long to deal with these HYPOCRITES!

Quadraticus

I swear Jack Beatty must be a bot: I can predict every single thing he’s going to say.

NathanD

I wish for once he’d tell me something I didn’t already know.

Anonymous

Good point on the Koch brothers, Jack. I hope they pick better cancer researchers.

Steve

To me Jack seems naive about the Koch brothers.
herman Cain has always been a straw man.
- Yar
  
  I wonder about that as well.
  It may just be part of the chess game, just as in the movie the Firm the office set up the lawyer on the beach. They need someone with exploitable flaws. Ginger White may have been on the Koch payroll as well. The question is: who running that isn’t somebody’s straw man?

TFRX

I’m accepting bets that Mitt’s interview with Brett Barie on Fox was the toughest thing a Republican will sit for from Thanksgiving thru election day.

Soon Roger Ailes will give the order from on high that Newt is political heir to Will Rogers and Jefferson Smith, because he’s just that likeable, honest, and outsidery.

TFRX

Leave it to the WSJ guy to interpret support for OWS in various polls his own special way.

Hey, John Bussey, that’s not anti-business–that’s anti crookery, that’s anti-Beltway-Inbreders. Maybe you’re spending too much time on the provervial Wall Street to not know what Main Street thinks.

GretchenMo

don’t confuse fleabaggers with main street; main street isn’t a bunch of anarchist rapists
- Fredlinskip
  
  So you believe America is a “dump”, you don’t believe in Democracy, and that OWSers are “anarchist rapists”-apparrently a completely closed mind to reality also needs be added to your resume.
- TFRX
  
  You really need to get out more. Maybe you’ll come back with some new material.

Consultant

Ashbrook – you liberal lackey. You should at least try and attempt to be somewhat objective.

Terry Tree Tree

Liberal Lackey? MOST Of his guests, on political discussions, have been ‘conservatives’!
ConsultThis

He’ a jockey, not a lackey. He’s only riding a career horse like any media pundit on either side.

‘On Point’ is about as objective as any Mainstream Media outlet:

National Public Relations
Anonymous

The one thing I truly blame Obama for is the fact that as soon as he was elected, a lot more people, including consultants, instantaneously became stupid. Uncanny, I tell you.

Steve

Republicans are not the party of small government.

I believe the government that they not-so-secretly expouse is based more on the emperor/pharoh model.

A small group of overlords that are able to extract the wealth/labor from all below them. The government, drawn from the educated classes will keep everyone in line so they do not have to get their hands dirty.

Sadly, the Democrats are the flip side of the same coin.

What is the solution if you believe people have value?

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

The Tea Party/Koch brothers/Libertarian faction of the Republican party want to weaken/ruin the government so their corporate and banking and military contractor paymasters can run roughshod over people and the environment taking all the profit for themselves and externalizing all the costs on the rest of us.

Neil
- Steve
  
  I am not Tea Party or OWS but am friends/related to people within each group.
  
  I believe there are reasonable arguements emanating from each group.
  
  The problem is always “getting from here to there”.
- SuperFiat
  
  That’s a moronic statement. I assume it’s from ignorance and partisan hyperbole.
  
  I don’t think Ralph Nader is that much of a dupe to fall for “paymasters”. He appreciates the value of a Constitution, followed.
  
  But keep letting your conspiratorial partisanship (if you can call anti-liberty views, and hence pro-status quo, partisan) get in the way of reform, and get ready for our next fiasco.
  
  http://reason.com/blog/2011/09/28/ralph-nader-hearts-ron-paul-ha
  
  “Libertarians like Ron Paul are on our side on civil liberties. They’re on our side against the military-industrial complex. They’re on our side against Wall Street. They’re on our side for investor rights. That’s a foundational convergence,” he exhorts. “It’s not just itty-bitty stuff.”

tired of hate

The OWS movement does have a goal and a meaning. It is similar to the Progressive Era of the late 1980′s and early 1900′s. The goal is to change the level of corruption in politics, which is high now. The gerrymander, and the money in elections has reached an all time high. The people who go to jail for a couple of years because they stole some money to feed their families versus the criminals who stole the life savings of thousands of Americans, and go free is enough to make people go back to the streets and protest, because voting can be rigged, like it was in Florida in 2004. The idea that Newt Gingerich espouses about firing the union janitors and hiring poor children to clean the school is a clue. They are tired of the election process being bought by the richest, they want election reform, and a new system.

Yar

Consider the fact that the chance a lottery game is rigged is orders of magnitude greater than the chance of winning.

TFRX

Caller at :40 is saying that a Republican is manly enough to stand up to spending.

Hey, they had Shrub for 8 years and didn’t submit a balanced budget. Caller needs to remember that Deficits Don’t Matter to Republicans when They’re in Power.

…and I see that Jack Beatty has taken the words out of my mouth: Tax cuts (no matter the effect, no matter who or what) first, deficit reduction second if ever.

http://freeourfreemarkets.org Steve Banicki

Cain Selling Books

What a brilliant marketing idea. You are a black, male American that has had a successful business career and you decide to write a book. Although successful, you are not a household word in America. and you are sitting in boxers in your living room, having a beer and trying to figure out how you can sell more books with a small budget. You glance at the TV and the national news is on discussing the upcoming race to become the Republican Presidential nominee. You put your beer down and listen. BINGO!
Read More http://bit.ly/rt8b8G

Wes, Cambridge, MA

Occupy Wall Street is not anti-business. Occupy Wall Street is anti-corporatocracy. The Occupy movement is against the undue and unfair influence of big business over our government, over our economy, and over our lives. The Occupy movement is a pro-democracy movement. Occupy supports a government of the people, by the people, and for the people.

http://freeourfreemarkets.org Steve Banicki

OWS should be anti-oligopolies. Capitalism can work, however it is broken. What OWS needs to do is hire Alan Simson as its spokesperson and purse the following objectives.

1. Prohibit Corporations and Unions From Financing Political Campaigns by Amending The Constitution 2. Enforce Anti-Trust Laws against Oligopolies & Monopolies!
3. Bring Our Deficit Under Control and amend tax code!�
The above are long term goals that will eventually bring more equally to the economy. The above goals will not be accomplished overnight and we need to do something that will bring the unemployment rate down now. A good start is President Obama’s jobs bill with some modifications brought about by sound ideas brought about by members of Congress and the Senate. Read More http://bit.ly/t9PRpy
- Terry Tree Tree
  
  GREAT GOALS!! OWS doesn’t have to back a particular agenda that the ‘conservatives’, and the corporations that own them, can easily dismiss, or ‘address’, to dismiss their efforts!
- Wes, Cambridge, MA
  
  Business monopolies are only part of the problem. Many big businesses perform unscrupulous, illegal, and dangerous acts against the interests of the people. Witness the lawsuit brought against five big banks by Massachusetts Attorney General Martha Coakley, whom I applaud for doing what needs to be done to bring the corporate criminals to court, to make them accountable for their crimes.
  
  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-02/jpmorgan-bofa-citigroup-barclays-aig-madoff-in-court-news.html
  
  I believe that the popular outrage that Occupy represents is responsible for the AG bringing this lawsuit.
- mikey
  
  I am FULLY IN FAVOR OF CAPITALISM and I am an OWS protester.
  
  I have owned small business and made money. However, nothing makes me angrier that hearing some hedge fund manager, bank president or insurance executive talk about entrepreneurship. Since when did a pipeline of money from the Fed make you a Capitalist? When did bankrupting a company earn you record bonuses? Wall Street and the financial sector compete on misinformation, small print in contracts, fraudulent accounting, bad municiple debt, bought rating agencies and issuing bad debt on an industrial scale. They never compete on price or quality.
  
  If you look at the books of any major bank (J.P. Morgan, Citigroup, Goldman Sachs) you will see their investments are mostly credit default swaps not stock. They are hiding losses off shore in Structure Investment Vehicles. The revalue their synthetic assets to create fake profits with mark-to-model accounting. Almost everything that modern Wall Street does would have gotten you thrown in jail 15 years ago under Glass Steagall. If we simply returned to the set of laws that regulated the financial sector for the last 60 years (Glass Steagall) we would make a huge improvement. Banks became powerful enough to legalize fraud and now they can’t lose. Bush and now Obama purges or ignores real regulators – Elizabeth Warren, Sheila Bair, Paul Volcker, William K. Black. Enough is enough.
  - Terry Tree Tree
    
    EXCELLENT!! MORE?

Julie

Newt the hypocrite is back, and those blinded by the hollow speeches are falling for it again. While claiming to cut government spending, Newt’s district was bloated with government money.

His plan to address education and job training gaps in poor neighbors, is sweat shops. The USA under Newt will become a Third world nation.

Terry Tree Tree

Typical ‘conservative’ HYPOCRITE!

Mike from Rutland, MA

Here’s a tough call; who’s more of a buffoon?

a. Herman Cain
b. Sarah Palin

If republican’s are dimwitted enough to rally around Sarah who claims to keep watch on Russia from her back yard, why wouldn’t they believe Herman when he says he’s a faithful husband?

ObamaBuffoon

I believed Obama when he said there were 58 states.
- Mike from Rutland, MA
  
  Touche!
- TFRX
  
  Did you believe Palin when she said she was in charge of the National Guard and keeping an eye on Putin’s planes coming into American airspace?
  - TFRX
    
    Ugh. By which I mean “in charge of Alaska’s Air National Guard when deployed militarily, giving her military experience”.
- Terry Tree Tree
  
  How many years of, a ‘Dumb Quote a day’ calendars did they make from Dubya’s spoutings?
     Books?
     Someone thought he was Presidential material?�
     He can be quoted for decades, for humor!!
  - GretchenMo
    
    i’ve made a book of your dumb quotes, currently on volume 6
    - Fredlinskip
      
      It can’t be as long as the book of your disrespectful comments.
    - GretchenMo
      
      where no respect is deserved, none is given
- Terry Tree Tree
  
  I do appreciate this joke, by the way!
Gregg

Don’t confuse Tina Fey with Sarah Palin.
- Anonymous
  
  You can tell them apart as Tina is the funny smart one.
  - Gregg
    
    She is also the one that said she could see Russia from her back porch.
    - nj
      
      Pretending to be an arbiter of accuracy, Greggg screws up the line.
      
      Nice going, Greggg.
- Terry Tree Tree
  
  Sarah, Great White Huntress, doesn’t know a gun-scope-sight, from a surveyor’s transit sight?

Scott Burns, Jamestown, NY

Newt suggesting that poor kids have no work ethic and aspire to being janitors is his version of, “Let them eat cake.” Keep in mind that the “cake” as Marie Antoinette was speaking of is a basic flour, water, and yeast mixture that was spread on the walls and bottoms of ovens, as a form of insulation, to keep the food that was to eaten from being burned and sticking to the oven. It was effectively a solid mass of char.

Where’s the work ethic of those that feel entitled to pay lower taxes than those janitors, and live off trust funds? Maybe if Newt worked as a janitor for a good while and tried to pay his bills (looking at his waistline, I’d say he wasn’t worried about his next meal), find insurance, or what the rest of the “cake-eaters” have to do. Maybe Morgan Sperlock can set him up?

Terry Tree Tree

Thanks for the explaination. It was an absurd thing to say, even if she were referring to cake as we know it, as people that can’t afford bread, SURE cannot afford cake!
- Scott B , Jamestown NY
  
  Yeah, history teachers neglect to explain that the “cake” she was referring to isn’t covered in frosting, nor is it edible.
  
  The question is: Which is worse? To be told to eat something that they could never aspire to having? Or, to be told to eat something that isn’t for human consumption?
  - Terry Tree Tree
    
    Delusional Elites don’t CARE!
  - Terry Tree Tree
    
    Delusional Elites don’t CARE!
    - GretchenMo
      
      scum-sucking parasites care only about themselves
    - Fredlinskip
      
      And you should be an expert on the subject.

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

Where have the “job creators” been for the last 10 years? They have had these Bush tax cuts this whole past decade — and we have lost millions of jobs. How can the Republicans say that more tax cuts are the answer with a straight face?

Austerity doesn’t work — look at Ireland, Italy, England, Greece, etc. are all falling farther into debt.

A growth economy is a fallacy. The reality is we have a huge environmental DEBT because we are running on an environmental DEFICIT. We are running out of multiple important resources. Money means nothing in the face of polluted and ruined environment.

Neil

William

Overspending is what caused Italy, UK, Greece etc…to fail…spending cuts are long overdue there and here.
- EconomicRegimeChange
  
  Government Sachs and JP Mortgages suckered them into the Eurozone with currency swaps back in the late ’90s.
  
  Once their balance sheets looked better to get them into the Eurozone, the banksters lent them billions more in the ’00s.
  
  http://uk.ibtimes.com/articles/249767/20111115/eurozone-crisis-greece-goldman-deal-sparked-debt.htm
  
  http://wallstreetpit.com/85811-a-financial-coup-detat-in-the-making
  
  http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2099350,00.html
- Fredlinskip
  
  Austerity, tax cuts for the wealthy, and deregulation triggered the Great Depression.
  
  How’s ’bout we not try that combination again.
  - William
    
    A combination of several factors caused the depression but FDR made it the Great Depression.
    - Fredlinskip
      
      What history books are you reading?
      I was under impression FDR policies were mostly credited for lifting us out of the Depression.
    - Anonymous
      
      I have read several books that looked at the economic history of the depression and the majority of FDRs policies caused the great depression to continue. If you look at history other countries around the world had recessions that started at the same time as our Great Depression, but only the US had the recession turn into a depression.
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      That why a wheelbarrow full of German Marks couldn’t buy a loaf of bread?
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      Evidently William uses the Texas text books, where white-supremacy lies, ignoring facts for fantasy, and other delusions are ALL that matter.
    - William
      
      You make this too easy. What did Henry Morgenthau, Jr (FDR’s Treasury Sec) say before the Ways and Means meeting in May 1939?. Or, perhaps “YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH” !
    - TFRX
      
      “Anec” is your preferred prefix to “Data”, hm?
      
      And the data was so computerized and assessable 70 years ago, too.
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      I have to be able to handle the truth, and give it, as most of what I do, someone can die if I lie, or get lied to!
    - William
      
      The depression was not the first depression faced by this nation. FDR used it as a chance to enact what he considered “good social changes”.
    - Fredlinskip
      
      And the nation seemed to do pretty well for itself for the following 40+ years.
      
      Then Ronnie came a long and deregulated and lowered taxes on the wealthy.
      
      After another 30 years of disturbing downward trends the economy tanks again and Obama is elected to miraculously reverse all those trends in a couple years all the while fighting GOP.
      
      Good luck with that Barack.
    - GretchenMo
      
      You crazy, and the numbers prove it. See GDP and NYSE.
    - Fredlinskip
      
      GDP under Reagan grew at a slower rate under Reagan than The guy GOP loved to hate- Carter.
      And this may come as a shock, but there is more to America than the NYSE.
    - William
      
      The size of government was reduced after WWII and we had a huge pent up demand for consumer goods. Once we opened our markets we started a downward slide. RR did a good job and we enjoyed some good years as result. Obama was elected because he is black, or 1/2 black, which seems to ease the white guilt held by some useful idiots.
Letmekeepmywages

But millions more would have been lost had we not had the tax cuts.
- TFRX
  
  Yes, the deficit-exploding, never-pay-for-itself tax miracle: Loaves for the rich, crumbs for the rest.
  
  That was always a sucker’s bargain, and anyone who fell for it really doesn’t belong on TV talking about economics until they spend two business cycles in the penalty box.
  - Wastefraudandabuse
    
    The spending’s the problem.
    - TFRX
      
      It was never the problem when Shrub was in office.
      
      The GOP are like alcoholics who insist they can handle all the liquor they want, but the moment they vomit and sober up demand that everyone else within a mile stop drinking.
      
      They can’t handle other people’s having booze, but have this misguided belief that they can.
    - Openyoureyes
      
      Right, everything’s been great since 2006 when Dems took control!
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      $7.7 $TRILLION in SECRET bailout, BEFORE the public bailout, of Banksters that gave themselves $BILLIONS in BONUSES for these FRAUDS!!
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      GREAT ACCURATE ANALOGY!!
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      Waste Fraud and Abuse ran rampant durring the ‘W’ admin! How much ‘unaccounted for’ money from then have you found, and returned to the people? Weapons?
- Fredlinskip
  
  letmekeepmywages,
  
  “millions (?) more would have been lost if not for them there tax cuts.” ??
  Yeah- they would have been lost for such unecessary things as paying down national debt, achieving a balanced budget, etc.
  
  If you haven’t heard yet, corps having achieved record profits, are sitting on trillions.
  
  IF you truly are a WAGE earner, I don’t know if you noticed but wages in this country have remained unchanged for over 30 years, while exec salaries have skyrocketed.
  
  Why don’t you turn off Rush for a couple of days and try voting FOR your own interests instead of AGAINST them in the next election for a change of pace.
  - GretchenMo
    
    you are truly dim, their cash is all off shore because they’re making it in foreign countries that are growing, not this dump with indebted underachievers like yourself
    - Fredlinskip
      
      And your contention then is corps are good for America?
      So you have alleged they don’t create jobs here, they don’t invest here, many receive subsidies and bailouts, and let me guess- you believe they should be taxed less.
      
      From this comment and many others like it, it’s clear you are not only completely disrespectful of others but you obviously just don’t give a #^<&* about America you refer to as a "DUMP"
      
      Why are you here?
      Why aren't you "off shore" with your buddies?
      
      Oh maybe there is something about this country that still appeals to you? Well maybe those to whom this country has done so much for ought to contribute a bit more. But that would be a patriotic notion, a concept I'm sure you're not familiar.
      
      And thanks for letting me know about my personal indebtedness- it's news to me.
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      NOT creating jobs for the U.S. citizens, as was promised for those tax cuts!!!!
- Terry Tree Tree
  
  You CAN’T be a wage-earner, and be serious about that! $BILLIONAIRES getting $BILLIONS, and wages staying flat?
  - GretchenMo
    
    name one, you’re pathetic
Terry Tree Tree

ALL so that a FEW can be GREEDY MEGA-RICH!
- Youretheparasite
  
  And even more can be suckle at the gov’s teat!
  - YouAreAnAmoeba
    
    it’s the only teat to suckle thanks to the banksters and government’s corporate masters
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      The ‘Job Creators’, didn’t create the jobs, just piles of money for themselves!
    - GretchenMo
      
      victimization, it’s all you got
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      The LIES of the GREEDY rich, is ALL that is needed! They PROMISED that tax cuts for the rich, their ‘JOB CREATORS’, would create jobs, TEN YEARS ago!
      Did they take the tax cuts? Did they CREATE JOBS?
  - Terry Tree Tree
    
    If the GREEDY rich had created jobs, with the money they defrauded from the tax rolls, there would be LESS need for government help, because people would have JOBS, that were promised!
    Want to CUT the number of people needing government help, CREATE JOBS, as was PROMISED for the last TEN YEARS!!�
    SOOO hard for the GREEDY rich to understand!!

TFRX

Caller at :45 says “The GOP can’t say compassionate conservative at this point because that’s not red meat enough” (paraphrase).

He is correct, but needs to remember what Compassionate conservative was invented to do: Get white suburban married women (outside the South) to give George W. Bush a chance by making him seem less anti-gay/lesbian, less racist, and less misogynist than he goverened as from day one.

Relieved to see that nobody’s trying to sell that crap anymore.

Terry Tree Tree

Where are the TEA Party, the ‘Birthers’, and other self-proclaimed ‘patriots’, with their OUTRAGE over the $TRILLIONS given in SECRET BAILOUTS, before the bailouts!�
Why aren’t they raising a ruckus about the birth certificates of corporations? Why aren’t they up in the air about the SUPER-CITIZENSHIP granted to corporations?�
They are proving they are just paid, or un-paid SHILLS, for the corporations!

Anonymous

I’d rather live under a dictator than in a theocracy. I’ve been skeptical of the Arab Spring since day one.

Brotherhood

Democracy’s a b*tch.
- Anonymous
  
  Mere voting doesn’t constitute a free society.
  - Sisterhood
    
    freer
    - Anonymous
      
      Not to women, gays, and religious minorities.
    - GretchenMo
      
      different strokes…
- http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68
  
  I lived in the Philippines during the Marcos Regime.
  It was peaceful and democratic authoritarian.
  One thing Marcos did not want to hear was being against him but still he let people marched on the streets of Manila
  - was it free and fair?
    
    Did you worry about the allegations of murder of political opponents? or the Billions said to have been embezzled and moved to other countries by Marcos and his wife? Corruption? Nepotism? yes, we have crony capitalism in the US, and we certainly have seen our share of diversion of funds to friends of the powerful, but it engenders out-rage in some of us.
    - http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68
      
      Marcos was the dictator but doesn’t mean he killed all of his political enemies. There are other politicians that were involve in killing their rivals. of course I know about the corruption or nepotism. I am one of the million people who booted out the Marcoses during the 1986 People Power Revolution.
- Brotherless
  
  Democracy doesn’t exist – it a myth.
Lolabritney

You do…get back to your cubicle, phonemonkey

Vtcheflw

where did the oil conversation go?

Takemycar

Right here, thanks to the recession.
RiggedOIlMarket

where did oil prices go with less world wide demand in this recession… up, up, up,
- Ignorancerigged
  
  show me the chart cuz i remember $140
- Ignorancerigged
  
  show me the chart cuz i remember $140
  - RiggedOilMarket
    
    Your right.
    
    While tankers were sitting around the ports of the world filled with oil and they couldn’t dump it or sell it and the whole world’s economy was stalled and no one wanted or needed oil – it was over $140/barrel:
    
    http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/CO/M
    
    The oil market is rigged like much of the rest of our economy.
    
    Is it possible that oil prices are rigged? You bet. Here’s how:
    
    http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1834888,00.html
    
    The biggest players on the commodity exchanges often operate as “swap
    dealers” who primarily invest on behalf of hedge funds, wealthy
    individuals and pension funds, allowing these investors to enjoy
    returns without having to buy an actual contract for oil or other
    goods. Some dealers also manage commodity trading for commercial firms.
    
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/20/AR2008082003898.html?hpid=topnews
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      EXCELLENT!! The oil proponents mostly have NO real idea of what they are talking about! The same for the Coal proponents! If they would get a REAL education on the subjects, the majority of them would change sides!

Worried for the country(MA)

Tom, how about a show on Climategate II.
Climate scientists were cooking the books and are now being compared to Enron. Also, new science is showing less correlation between CO2 and warming than predicted. Good thing we didn’t spend $trillions on cap and trade.

http://www.dailytech.com/Climatologists+Trade+Tips+on+Destroying+Evidence+Evangelizing+Warming/article23368.htm

Gregg

The thing that always bothered me about that correlation in general and Algore’s graph in particular, is temperatures rose before CO2 levels rose not after. If you listen to Algore in his movie he is very careful how he words the issue. He clearly knew he was committing fraud.
- Worried for the country(MA)
  
  Two things are clear, climate science is an immature field and is not settled. The second is there is a cabal of climate scientists that have a religious (not scientific) belief in global warming. What isn’t clear is if their motives are noble, that they believe they are saving the planet, or they are distorting science for monetary riches. It is likely a combination of both.
  - Vtcheflw
    
    You do know that there really is not a “the jury is out” kind of feeling in the scientific field on this one. Even the Koch brothers sponsored research found global climate change, link to human activity, to be real. The findings were published in the Wall Street Journal maybe 2 week ago.
    
    Ten years ago, science warn us of the effects we are seeing today. The evidence is all there. You sooner believe the scientists are distorting the truth for monetary gains, and not the oil interests and those who currently benefit highly from the status quo? Who is richer, an oil company CEO or a research scientist?
    - Worried for the country(MA)
      
      You are incorrect.
      
      The Koch bros. funded the BEST earth temperature study led by Dr. Richard Muller of UC Berkley.
      
      The study is still pending peer review but Muller stated that they have confirmed .6C warming which is consistent with previous studies. He was very clear that they did not study human cause of any warming and he had NO comment on human caused warming.
      
      Interestingly, you mention 10 years ago. The fact there has been NO warming for the last 10 years and CO2 levels have continued to increase (due to China building a new coal plant every week) has left the warmist climate scientists perplexed.
    - Vtcheflw
      
      No, ten years ago scientist were saying that in 10 years we would see the ice caps melting and a major rise in extreme weather events. It is clear to me that man’s activities are having some drastic effects on the planet. Ten years ago we saw corals near the surface of the ocean dying, now we see deep water corals dying. The forests of the mid-west are suffering major insect infestations because higher temperatures mean bugs don’t die over the winter. We’ve managed to change to PH of the ocean. The list can go on and on.
      
      These changes to our environment have happened incredibly fast, in the same time period that man has changed in life more than any other time in history. I don’t see the two being unconnected. It is clear we need to react to the writing on the wall.
      
      I don’t suggest we need to go back to the stone age, as many in the anti-warming camp might say. We just need to face that we have problems to solve. We can have the lifestyle and power it differently.
      
      You may be right that Richard Muller didn’t suggest that global warming is man made. With Koch brothers money lining his pockets you wouldn’t expect him to. His findings are still consistent with those who do.
      
      Why argue not to protect the environment? Because of the economic implications? What do you not understand about: dead environment=dead economy?
    - Worried for the country(MA)
      
      Therefore, you must be a proponent of the only massively scalable CO2 free energy source available today; nuclear power.
      
      I’m all for protecting the environment. I believe climate needs further study. Let me ask you what is the ‘ideal’ temperature for the earth? What is the ideal CO2 level? Even if found CO2 is causing problems, it isn’t clear that shutting future emissions would change anything. What I am against is wasting $trillions for which there is no clear benefit.
    - Vtcheflw
      
      What can acting hurt? We might not know that it would have an effect, but we don’t know what will. To keep it short, earth is one big working system. we don’t know what will happen if the balance of the systems, that are a smaller part of the whole, gets thrown off. Why stay the course?
      
      I think there are many alternative. Plant based fuels, distributed production, many ideas not yet thought of. We can do it all better.
      
      That’s a near bed time over simplifaction, but you get the point.
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      HOW does Wind, Solar, Tidal, and some others, produce MORE CO2, than Nuclear?�
      Do you really think you know much about it? Why?
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      This is the BEST study, because it says that man is NOT having any effect on the climate, so it is OK for major polluters, that paid for the study, to POLLUTE?
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      You DON’T find any problem with that?
    - Gregg
      
      If you want to talk about pollution, fine but it’s a different conversation.
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      The American Tobbacco Institute, formed by the tobbacco companies, found NO evidence that tobbacco was harmful, for decades! A BABY tells you that tobbacco is harmful, the first time it is exposed to tobbacco smoke, or where it has been! �
      If you are a tobbacco addict, or get your income from tobbacco, you will use the ‘Institute’ info, regardless of ALL the other studies. If you are a caring parent, you notice your baby sneezing, coughing, or otherwise telling you it is in bad surroundings, and correct that, if you can!
    - nj
      
      Unimpaired by facts or reality, the Worried One proclaims, “ there has been NO warming for the last 10 years…”
      
      Why are right wingers so damned uninformed?
      
      http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cmb-faq/anomalies.php
      
      http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/
  - Fredlinskip
    
    Honestly I find it difficult to stomach that people are still debating the reality of man-influenced climate change. The VAST majority of scientists are all in agreement. It must be a bit frustrating for these folks to devote their careers work to this and then be subjected to attack by the gurus of Fox “News”. Especially since ignoring climate change is having devastating and likely irreversible consequences to our world’s fragile ecosystems.
    
    When you refer to “cabal of scientists with religious belief” are you refering to those that believe the world’s gonna end anyway some time, so who gives a ^#@> about the environment?
    - Hidan
      
      Fake fair and balances fox has cried and screamed So much that the MSM is so fearful of being called the dreaded L word has bought into this Fake Fair and Balance no matter how absurd(with the except of the taboo topics see the blackout of Ron Paul). Where for a brief period we had journalist/reporter reporting the facts/events now we have Journalist/reporters reporting the facts with often professional propagandist. The followers of this become cynical and the people that don’t(which happens to be the majority of the country) are bombarded with quick sound bites and sensationalism(cause it sells of course) making it near impossible to know whats actually going on.
      
      If one group believes in evolution and the other believe that Adam and Eve was created 6k years ago and eve was magically created from Adams rib than using this Fake fair and balance both sides deserve 50/50 time even know one has very little evidences to support such side. Same with Global Warming. But this doesn’t stop there this Fake Fair and Balances also somehow requires the reporter/journalist to blame both sides no matter the tendencies or rates one party commits such act compare to the other. If save a Gay bashing Republican is caught sleeping with a male prostitute the reporter would have to go back and find some instances or something close for a democrat if nothing can be found the reporter/journalist must find a way to find or state the other side is guilty of something similar. If the above comparison doesn’t work than the reporter/journalist will go with the “some people say” or “experts say” or “X official say” to maintain that Fake Fair and Balance while the people who cry the most about the Liberal Media can go even further to the right and claim there just trying to provided the balance to the MSM.
    - Gregg
      
      The vast majority of scientist certainly are NOT in agreement. It has nothing to do with Fox.
    - Fredlinskip
      
      The scientific consensus about man-made global warming — which includes 97 percent to 98 percent of researchers in the field, according to the National Academy of Sciences — is getting stronger, not weaker, as the evidence for climate change just keeps mounting.
      
      But this is tough to swallow for the 1%ers because conservation effects profit.
      I know your not a 1%er, so all’s I can surmise, and I truly don’t mean to be intentionally disrespectful, but you must be either extremely gullible or extremeley adverse to facts that don’t fit in your world view…
      or both.
    - Worried for the country(MA)
      
      What is the consensus? That man contributes to global warming? Sure, that’s easy. By how much? Enough to be significant? I doubt there is consensus on significant or dangerous AGW. If there is I’d like to see it.
    - Vtcheflw
      
      You sound like an alcoholic. “Sure, it might kills me someday, you can’t tell me when and where so why should I stop?”
    - Worried for the country(MA)
      
      There are many things that might kill me. For instance, every time I get in my car I take a calculated risk. At this time, there are more serious things to worry about.
    - nj
      
      I love it when the head-in-the-sand denialists feign rationality.
      
      http://www.nature.com/news/three-quarters-of-climate-change-is-man-made-1.9538
      
      Three-quarters of climate change is man-made
    - Gregg
      
      I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would want the earth destroyed for politics. Why would I bury my head in the sand if the world was in peril? Could it be that I’m not alone and am informed? Could it be that I have looked at both sides carefully for a decade instead of just on side that profits remarkably from the notion?
      
      Nah, Rush told me and I saw it on Fox.
    - Worried for the country(MA)
      
      “VAST major of scientists” is both incorrect and meaningless. Science is not based on consensus but theory and experimental proof. The vast majority of physicist considered Einstein’s theory of relativity bunk for the 20 years after he proposed it yet he was proven correct via experiments and observation.
      
      I suggest you check out the climategate emails. The ‘team’ actively tried to censor data and distort the peer review process to censor any science that didn’t support their preconceived beliefs. Further, they tried to destroy the careers of scientists who did not hold their view. It is really an embarrassment and hurts the field and honorable scientists.
    - Fredlinskip
      
      97%+ of scientists in agreement about something is a strong enough consensus for me.
      Facts matter, and if you cared about the planet you’re lucky enoughto inhabit, you might consult facts once in a a while instead of believing everything you hear on right-wing talk show radio.
      Care about your country? Care about facts.
    - Gregg
      
      If that’s true, I can’t find it but it’s not. Wherever that study is when was it? Before the bogus and discredited 2007 IPCC fourth assessment report? Was is based on it.
      
      http://www.climatedepot.com/a/12797/Exclusive-Nobel-PrizeWinning-Physicist-Who-Endorsed-Obama-Dissents-Resigns-from-American-Physical-Society-Over-Groups-Promotion-of-ManMade-Global-Warming
      
      Have you kept up with the recent science? Are you unaware of the fraudulent nature of climategate? Why does temperature rise BEFORE CO2 levels go up?
    - nj
      
      Greggg parrots denialist disinformation.
      
      Thoroughly refuted here:
      
      http://www.nature.com/news/three-quarters-of-climate-change-is-man-made-1.9538
    - Gregg
      
      And there are many who openly admit they are justified to exaggerate because of the “seriousness of the threat”. They think they are saving the planet, it’s a religion.
      
      I don’t mean to imply they merely exaggerated, it was fraud.
- Worried for the country(MA)
  
  Since you brought up Algore, George Will was on with Laura Ingraham this morning and suffice it to say he is not a Newt fan. Among his many criticisms he reminded us that Newt still supports ethanol subsidies even though almost everyone, including Algore, have shed them as folly. Laura asked Will about Newts motive. The ethanol industry pays Newt to support ethanol.
  - Worried for the country(MA)
    
    The smartest guy in the room can’t still support ethanol subsidies?
    - Gregg
      
      With the exception of Paul and Huntsman, I believe they all support ethanol subsidies to one extent or the other.
  - Gregg
    
    I used to be a huge fan of Laura Ingraham, still am but she’s not on in my area anymore. She also IMHO got a little full of herself after she hit the big time. I once got into an email debate with her over Harriet Meyers. No point really just glad to see her referenced.
    
    I think it would be better to ask Newt instead of Will. I know he has supported ethanol since 1984 but I am not ready to accept that he is paid to support it. If he is paid when did it start? Before 1984? Quid pro quo? That may influence my opinion but I already disagree with him on ethanol. I think it’s silly to use food for energy. Corn prices affect a ton of stuff. I also believe as long as Iowa is the first caucus we will have ethanol.
    - Worried for the country(MA)
      
      Laura’s clearly been rooting for Newt’s rise but is coy about supporting any one candidate.
      
      Today she called for Cain to drop out and a Mitt vs. Newt mano-a-mano debate.
      
      For me Newt’s working for Freddie MAC is much more troubling and fits the pattern. His explanation that they paid him as a historian makes no sense. His claim that he left government and worked in the private sector is extreme hoots-pa. He was trading money for political influence. I’ll give him one thing, he really has rino balls.
      
      It will be interesting as this thing plays out. Newt has some great political and communication skills. He also has some crazy ideas. Eventually it will come down to the following related questions. Is Newt electable in the general? Does he have the temperament to be an effective President?
    - Anonymous
      
      If the GOP wants to lose the general election by all means nominate Newt Gingrich.
    - Gregg
      
      What if we want to win?
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      So far, it looks like you conservatives don’t have a candidate that CAN win!!
      People are tired of “Do as I SAY, not as I DO!” vermin.
    - Gregg
      
      I try not to let electability influence my primary vote. I don’t think it can be quantified. In the general I happily vote for the lessor of two evils or for the best of both worlds. All in all I think he’s the best choice but that’s just me.
    - Worried for the country(MA)
      
      I understand your calculus but I prefer the William F Buckley tenant to support the most conservative, electable candidate. I agree it is sometimes hard to quantify.
    - Gregg
      
      I think Obama has shifted the paradigm. Marco Rubio, Rand Paul and many others beat establishment Republicans in the primaries and were said to have zero chance. “Not electable” was the cry. It didn’t work everywhere (Del., Nev.) but I don’t know if the outcome would have been different. The country is hungry for real hope. Real change.
- nj
  
  How sad. GDS* claims another victim. Perhaps there is a treatment center nearby.
  
  *Gore Derangement Syndrome
Terry Tree Tree

Man’s contribution to raising world temperature, and helping cause climate to change, is ALL around you, IF you only have eyes to see, and the brains to understand!

political observer

No surprise that Newt soars. Hot air rises. Do we really want a leader at the helm of an ailing economy whose record shows he tends not to be around ‘in sickness and health, for better or worse’ –

Terry Tree Tree

GOOD ONE!! ACCURATE TOO!
Gregg

Are you interested in the truth or talking points?

http://www.creators.com/conservative/jackie-gingrich-cushman/setting-the-record-straight.html
- DoahDoah
  
  Genius-less – Did you even read the article you posted the link for or the comments after it?
  
  Newt’s daughter, Jackie, was 13 at the time and gives no additional information concerning the ‘untruths’ told about the ‘infamous hospital’ visit.
  
  She just states, ‘look them up, I’m not repeating them’. Basically, implying her Mom is a liar.
  
  One comment –
  
  Your mom tells a different story:”He can say that we had been talking about it [divorce] for 10 years, but the truth is that it came as a complete surprise.”
  
  Source: The Inner Quest of Newt Gingrich.” Vanity Fair. 9/1995.
  
  Second comment –
  
  Newt’s ex-wife told the Washington Post in a Jan. 3, 1985, profile:
  
  “He walked out in the spring of 1980 and I returned to Georgia. By September, I went into the hospital for my third surgery. The two girls came to see me, and said Daddy is downstairs and could he come up? When he got there, he wanted to discuss the terms of the divorce while I was recovering from the surgery … To say I gave up a lot for the marriage is the understatement of the year.”
  
  Third comment -
  
  “Can you tell us about how your dad refused to pay alimony and child-support payments. It’s a matter of record The First Baptist Church had to take up a collection to support the family your dad deserted back then.”
  - Gregg
    
    Why would she want to discuss untruths and what do comments on the article have to do with anything. Her mother approved of the article.
- Terry Tree Tree
  
  Newt didn’t cheat on his 2 wives, while married? That isn’t the truth? Hasn’t he admitted it?
  Can he PROVE he will commit to vows, or Oaths?
monica

“..forsaking all others….” – Slick Clinton , Haircut Edwards, Eyeballs Jackson
- TFRX
  
  Funny thing about the GOP: They have a hard-on for telling you what to do in your bedroom. Or haven’t you noticed?
  - Ggergmusic
    
    That’s a hoot!
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      But, oh so true, on so many levels!!
    - Gregg
      
      It’s a talking point with no basis.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

The greatest news this week is the Attorney General Office of Massachusetts Martha Coakley and her team of lawyers for suing the BANKS that caused the Great Recession.

GretchenMo

is it re-election time already
- RetchMore
  
  Regress back into your larval state until you find another comment board to live off of.

SucklingTheTeat

File Under: “Don’t bite the nipple that feeds you.”

Harvard Crimson Editorial to Occupy Harvard Protesters:

Leave Goldman Sachs recruiters alone – they give us jobs.

“And while many experts agree that Goldman was part of the problematic system that created the financial crisis, Occupy Harvard’s targeting of a Goldman Sachs recruiting event presents a facile and trivializing interpretation of the root causes of the economic catastrophe and debases our national conversation on the issue…

Obviously, Goldman Sachs is not without blame in the financial crisis. The deceptive and irresponsible peddling of financial products known to be “crap” by their traders stands as a monument to the dangers of an insufficiently regulated financial sector…

However, to single out Goldman Sachs as a single target of opprobrium for causing the financial crisis is myopic and unoriginal…”

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2011/12/1/occupy-goldman-recruiting

Vtcheflw

Jobs are a natural product of life. Goldman Sachs creates slaves.
- GretchenMo
  
  how much have you created? there’s a line out the door waiting to be a well-paid slave
  - Fredlinskip
    
    Many of America’s “best” students are drawn into financial industry where they are paid well to find ways to create profit in ways to the detriment of the rest of America.
    There was a time when America’s best talent worked towards America’s benefit.
    What a concept.
    - GretchenMo
      
      the rest are drawn to be sponges and you’re vision of the world never existed
    - RetchMore
      
      Parasites like you live off of sponges and the only vision they have of is who they are going to live off next or die.
  - Vtcheflw
    
    We like up to be slaves because we don’t know better. Money is a religious belief at this point. People bow to altar without question, no doubt in their mind the religious is the greatest and only way to be.
    
    I grow grow food for my self and my neighbors, what do you contribute?
  - RetchMore
    
    Parasites like you only know the relationship of slave to host, that’s how you stay alive.
  - Terry Tree Tree
    
    The jobs that YOU have created?

Gregg

The Senate failed to pass the payroll tax cut extension. I think it’s a bad idea unless it’s paid for. A tax hike on the top 1% won’t do it. Pay for it with spending cuts.

TFRX

Where were all the reasonable righties paying for crap when Shrub was in power?
- Gregg
  
  Throwing out Congress and forming the Tea Party.
  - TFRX
    
    Sorry, too busy laughing at all the top-down astroturfing and Obama-as-Hitler or as an African tribesman posters to pay attention to your argument.
    - GretchenMo
      
      i thought fleabaggers were more bottom-down and getting lower
    - RetchMore
      
      Parasites like you live off of fleas.
    - TFRX
      
      Your fleabaggers schtick wasn’t funny the first 2000 times around. That all you got?
    - GretchenMo
      
      sorry did i touch a nerve fleabagger
    - Gregg
      
      Get a clue man.
      
      http://theblogprof.blogspot.com/2009/08/busted-obama-as-hitler-poster-was.html
      
      http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=612
    - Gregg
      
      Get a clue man.
      
      http://theblogprof.blogspot.com/2009/08/busted-obama-as-hitler-poster-was.html
      
      http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=612
  - Terry Tree Tree
    
    The ones that sold out to the POLLUTERS?

Fredlinskip

One might hope that national crisis might encourage unity and congressmen would put aside differences for sake of their country.
   Yet it’s clear from recent SuperGoofy Comittee that Dems & GOP are on opposite side of question of how best stimulate economy.
   GOP believe tax cuts (especially for wealthy)and deregulation continue to be the answer to country’s woes, while Dems believe tax cuts and dereg is exactly what got us into such a deep mess.
   Both of these approaches obviously can’t be correct. One’s right. One is wrong. Policies that encourage half of one approach and half the other is what congress has been about during Obama term.
If you are in a sinking ship and half the crewis bailing out water and half the crew is pouring more in, the ship is going to remain crippled. That’s what we have in America today.
That’s why it’s so important to clearly define the debate and the facts, then try one approach or other- AND choose the right one!
   Media in this country have been doing a grave diservice by encouraging the debate, but not highlighting the facts behind the debate.

IMO, we tried the deregulate, tax cuts for wealthy bit for long enough. How many times do we run into same brick wall, before we do something different?

GretchenMo

gotcha, compromise is Repubs rolling over
- Fredlinskip
  
  GOP compromise was to make permanent the W tax cuts- that’s some compromise.
  - TFRX
    
    Gretch has been in Fox funhouse so long she’s believing their own PR.
- RetchMore
  
  Most parasitic, psychopathic personalities don’t compromise – just look in a mirror.

SuperFiat

Libertarians Vs. the Kochtopus

http://www.lewrockwell.com/gordon/gordon37.html

Minarchism reminder:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minarchism

In the strictest sense, it maintains that the state is necessary and that its only legitimate function is the protection of individuals from aggression, theft,breach of contract, and fraud, and the only legitimate governmental institutions are the military, police, and courts. In the broadest sense, it also includes fire departments, prisons, the executive, and legislatures as legitimate government functions.[2][3][4] Such states are called night watchman states.

SuperFiat

Koch supported “libertarian” Paul bashers.

http://lewrockwell.com/gordon/gordon90.1.html

Headsman13

For all those geniuses of the polarized illusion, with your Dems said Reps said nonsense, and for those young ones among you who haven’t been really paying attention:

No matter what they say and no matter what the appearances, the people who are in power ALWAYS what to keep things exactly as they are, no matter how disastrous they appear. The complex reason for this is: because it is THEY who are in power.

Fredlinskip

Conservatives by definition are threatened by change.
Progressives by definition wish for positive change.
�
To steal a quote by Jefferson in an earlier thread this week:
“The same political parties which now agitate the U.S. have existed thro’ all time. Whether the power of the people, or that of the “aristoi” should prevail, … To me it appears that there have been … party differences from the first establishment of governments, to the present day … everyone takes his side in favor of the many, or the few.”
- SuperFiat
  
  Lets cut to the chase.
  
  Progressives are smart and good.
  
  Conservatives (oh let’s lump in libertarians, we love to do that here) are dumb and evil.
  
  If we have to stoop to this kind of game, I prefer:
  
  Conservatives are well intentioned authoritarians.
  
  Progressive Big Government Democrats are well intentioned but naive (dumb?) control freaks.
  
  Libertarians are smart and realistic.
  
  Progressive minded, sound money, live and let live Libertarians seem the best hope.
  
  Likely to find them somewhere in this mix:
  
  http://reason.com/blog/2011/09/28/ralph-nader-hearts-ron-paul-ha
  
  FA Hayek; Why I am NOT a conservative
  
  http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/hayek1.html
  - Fredlinskip
    
    Don’t believe I attacked conservatives for lack of intelligence, although if Fox “News” is representative, I admitedly sometimes wonder if American education system “left some of them behind” a bit.
    
    As far as evil is concerned:, I’m going to wear out Jefferson’s quote:
    
    “The same political parties which now agitate the U.S. have existed thro’ all time. Whether the power of the people, or that of the “aristoi” should prevail, …
    To me it appears that there have been … party differences from the first establishment of governments, to the present day … everyone takes his side in favor of the many, or the few.”
    Assuming Jefferson is correct which of the 2 major parties represent the few and which the many?
    
    Hayek’s philosophy is somewhat Darwinistic, No?�
    The fit survive- let everybody else die, somewhat summarizes it??
    - GretchenMo
      
      sure if i can judge libbies by rachel madcow and the weird guy with glasses that used to be on MSNBC and then got banished to Al Gore’s living room
    - UMMM22
      
      Why don’t you just shut the frack up. You never say anything that isn’t stupid and trollish.
    - GretchenMo
      
      why don’t you make me loser
    - RetchMore
      
      You’re a pre-teen parasite, huh?
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      Looks like you already did!
    - RetchMore
      
      The ability to judge is not important for a parasite as long as there’s something to suck the life from.
    - SuperFiat
      
      Not at all. They don’t usually give out Nobel Prizes for that.
      
      It only takes a few minutes to start to look into things and follow lines of thought and rationale.
      
      Curious, why did you presume Hayek=Darwinistic?
      
      Where did you pick up that knee-jerk characterization, in all seriousness?
    - Fredlinskip
      
      I believe it was on a recent C-Span book written about Hayek.
      And yes I do need to do my homework on Hayek- if I offended your sensibilities, then the Hayek with you.
    - SuperFiat
      
      lol…
      
      do look forward to what you think after you look into and reflect.
  - nj
    
    Another day, another Dave-in-Connecticut handle.
    - SuperFiat
      
      yet more tremendous insight and discussion from nj, the progressive idealogue and utopian.
      
      That’s a sarcastic way of dismissing without reasoning, whatever it is you think.
    - SuperFiat
      
      What do you think of Nader’s comments RE Ron Paul here, if you can grace us with a sincere response….
      
      http://reason.com/blog/2011/09/28/ralph-nader-hearts-ron-paul-ha
    - UMMM22
      
      Interesting, the problem is, I don’t want senors to die because of some small minded thirty year old libertarians.
    - SuperFiat
      
      Thats a noble thought I’m sure the real 99% shares, not wanting seniors to die.
      
      So the genius logic is, if you don’t support a Big Government approach to our self-governance, you want seniors to die.
      
      Nice campaign rhetoric.
      
      It also supposes that “libertarians” do not ever support the “safety net” concept.
      
      “With regard to a safety net, Hayek’s statements are mixed. On the one hand, he was prepared to tolerate ‘some provision for those threatened by the extremes of indigence or starvation, be it only in the interest of those who require protection against acts of desperation on the part of the needy.’[70] On the other hand, as referenced above in the section on “The economic calculation problem”, Hayek wrote that “there is no reason why…the state should not help to organize a comprehensive system of social insurance.”
      
      Can you not discern the difference between nanny state and safety net?
- GretchenMo
  
  libbies want change for change’s sake, and offer no more logic than that;
  - Fredlinskip
    
    OR…. perhaps they wish change because 30 years of general economic idiocy has brought our country to the edge of a cliff.
    (IM humble O)
    - SuperFiat
      
      Economic idiocy, as in we need smarter centralized control? Or economic corruption, which is a form of self-governing idiocy, and we need to re-empower the people and the justice system.
      
      Enforcing laws and vigilantly participating in our own governance is a completely different animal than hoping to hand more power to the “right” people to take care of us.
      
      IMO that’s the jist of the argument/misunderstanding we are having in this country, and offers a point of clarity for broad agreement.
      
      True Communists or Metaphysical Utopians (when it comes to our governance) are likely a very small minority.
  - RetchMore
    
    Logic is nothing to an organism like you that feeds off others for sustenance.
Terry Tree Tree

Applying for a job as a Republican politician? This was about as hard to understand, and can be SPUN many ways!
- GretchenMo
  
  now we know what leftwing hacks think
  - RetchMore
    
    Now, we know you don’t think and only exist to live off others’ comments like the parasitic troll you are.
  - Terry Tree Tree
    
    You characterize me as a leftwing hack, based on what?
UMMM22

I give odds that neither respondent realizes that they just proved your point and ridiculed themselves in their own responses. Interesting. . . .

What you wrote just seems like common sense to me. Why would things arrange themselves otherwise? The mistake is to assume there is someone in control and someone to blame. People sometimes feel conflicted because they have been taught that they are more than animals, and perhaps at least some of them are, but that does not mean that they are not animals, and your statement is true, but is just the natural rule of the law of the jungle. It’s very like an unrestricted capitalistic mileau (which of course cannot exist in our day of light-speed digitry for long without a winner who takes all.) Capital concentrates too fast even with the restrictions we have placed upon it by subverting enforcement and regulation. Naturally like any good objectivist or reptile, to the investor also, live=cycles of self-interested behavior. When capital concentrations are extreme everything is corrupted because nothing can withstand that degree of self-interested behavior, beyond regulation, beyond morals, beyond the perception of the public. Yes obviously gov does not produce wealth, nor does religion, in fact ultimately all wealth comes from the physical planet, even what is thought of as purely intellectual properties, and are derived from farming, or mining of some type whether it be fishing or making dry ice from air. So it is of course the businesses that produce and alter in some fashion these resources that produce all wealth. Conservatives think that liberals are incapable of understanding these simple pragmatic facts.

I suggest that this is not the case.

I also suggest that business would have never built the cathedral at Chartres or put men on the moon, nor would we have the works of genius for which it is necessary to forsake all thought of compensation because so much must be sacrificed, that it can never amount to a profitable proposition. Such as is often the case with research, and works of art which may ultimately enrich us all.

To rely entirely on the fiat of private voluntary donations would be the real oppression, because everything would be determined by the whims of a few very powerful individuals, and this would become more the case as capital concentrated in fewer and fewer hands, which will be inevitable and happen at an accelerating pace unless justly regulated.
- SuperFiat
  
  http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz
- Terry Tree Tree
  
  Very Good! A lot to consider!

SuperFiat

How about this:

We all have a progressive aspect to ourselves,

We all have a conservative aspect to ourselves,

We all have a libertarian aspect to ourselves.

Trying to align purely with one, and dismiss outright the others, is self-destructive and dishonest.

Within our minds and amongst ourselves.

For me, just hearing the die-hard DNC types express their libertarian side, or even admit some conservative aspect, would be refreshing, and on a larger scale, I think healing for the electorate. Same goes for the other way of course.

SuperFiat

Paul with Wolf

http://www.dailypaul.com/189961/cnn-interview-of-ron-paul-in-the-situation-room-w-wolf-blitzer-friday-12-02-11-4pm-et

Anonymous

I heard a little bit of the show today and was disappointed there was no mention of Ron Paul. Why are you guys spending more time talking about Cain? Sadly, it seems that even vpr has been sucked into the sideshow that is the Cain campaign. Let’s talk about real juicy issues. Paul wants to eliminate the “Federal” Reserve. Isn’t that something to talk about? Especially considering that Occupy has risen up against the system and Americans are clearly looking for an overhaul….

Roy Mac

Paul is a know-nothing buffoon, as are all these trolls who persist in barging into otherwise serious discussions. Ron Paul is a gynecologist who read Atlas Shrugged and decided he was some sort of renaissance thinker. He can get into political leadership when he lets me perform pelvic exams on his daughter(s).
- GretchenMo
  
  you are one sick, and ignorant, puppy
  - Anonymous
    
    And your not. Oh please you’re nothing but a misinformed wanker.
    - GretchenMo
      
      ying to your yang dufus
    - RetchMore
      
      Beyond pathetic, your pathological behavior is psychotic.
    - Gregg
      
      Look at your post then look in the mirror.
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      You’re admitting that jeffe68 is sweet, fascinating, entertaining, intelligent, hard-working, polite, complimentary, and a decent person?
  - RetchMore
    
    Like your parasitic behavior on this commet board, ignorance and illness is your profession.

Hidan

Have You Heard About The 16 Trillion Dollar Bailout The Federal Reserve Handed To The Too Big To Fail Banks? Turns out before/during and after the TARP Bail-out the Fed decided to loan banks “Trillions” at .001 interest without the knowledge of Congress or Treasury. These Bank made an 13 billion profit with 10 Billion coming from the Banks Buying T Bills for around 3% interest with the money the Feds printed and gave to them for .001 interest.”According to the
limited GAO audit of the Federal Reserve that was mandated by the
Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act, the grand
total of all the secret bailouts conducted by the Federal Reserve during
the last financial crisis comes to a whopping $16.1 trillion.
That is an astonishing amount of money.
Keep in mind that the GDP of the United States for the entire year of 2010 was only 14.58 trillion dollars.
The total U.S. national debt is only a bit above 15 trillion dollars right now.” http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=28006

david

Hidan,
Do you feel like you are on the USS Titanic!!!!�
We are being herded into the government plantation and most people have no clue that they are!

Hidan

Breakdown,

page 131 of the GAO report
http://www.scribd.com/doc/60553686/GAO-Fed-Investigation#outer_page_144

Citigroup – $2.513 trillion
Morgan Stanley – $2.041 trillion
Merrill Lynch – $1.949 trillion
Bank of America – $1.344 trillion
Barclays PLC – $868 billion
Bear Sterns – $853 billion
Goldman Sachs – $814 billion
Royal Bank of Scotland – $541 billion
JP Morgan Chase – $391 billion
Deutsche Bank – $354 billion
UBS – $287 billion
Credit Suisse – $262 billion
Lehman Brothers – $183 billion
Bank of Scotland – $181 billion
BNP Paribas – $175 billion
Wells Fargo – $159 billion
Dexia – $159 billion
Wachovia – $142 billion
Dresdner Bank – $135 billion
Societe Generale – $124 billion
“All Other Borrowers” – $2.639 trillionSo far 1 member spoke out http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=9e2a4ea8-6e73-4be2-a753-62060dcbb3c3

GretchenMo

you can’t add or cut and paste, either way you’re easy to ignore
- Fredlinskip
  
  Obviously you have chosen to “ignore” the facts presented in Hidan’s comment.
  Perhaps you recieved someof the bailout $ in question? It’s obvious by the tone and content of your comments that your ethics are certainly suspect.
  - GretchenMo
    
    no bailouts, no dole; what are the ethics of being a sponge?
    - RetchMore
      
      What are the ethics of a parasitic troll, like yourself?
    - Anonymous
      
      I am continuously amazed by the number of people like you who have nothing of any intelligence to say yet proudly and repeated display their ignorance in forums like this. I can only hope there are not too many like you. BTW, how long has your family owned the business that supports you?
    - GretchenMo
      
      and the standard you judge intelligence by is the extent to which it agrees with your slanted, infantile point of view, whatever
- GodAlmighty
  
  If he is so easy to ignore why did you respond to him you self-contradicting idiot.
  - Anonymous
    
    This person is a right wing troll.
- RetchMore
  
  If comment are so easy to ignore, than why don’t you? Because, you are a parasitic troll with a psychotic tendencies.
- Terry Tree Tree
  
  You ignored Hidan so well!
UMMM22

Good man.

Pjbre

Alas, has it come to this? Tom Ashbrook and the On-Point crowd gloating and frolicking in the mud over the Herman Cain “scandal?” So sad.�
I look to On-Point to get away from that stuff. I’d probably never vote vote him, but I won’t make a political judgement based on the private, romantic conduct of prospects (Bill Clinton taught me that) or on the adivce of rock star or baseball studs. My vote it too precious. �
If this is the way WBUR plans on raising half the money in ahlf the time, by pandering to the sensational and the prurient, I’m not interested.
And I regret what we’ve lost.
So sad.

UMMM22

Your vote would be precious if you had a choice of some kind. You don’t. The only one who will be running for prez and congress are the one percent, unless you want to throw your vote away and not vote for MR. Sachs.

Hidan

The Gov of WI anti-first amendment plan where he will introduces fees for Americans who wish to protest. To add to more absurdity he want’s them to buy insurances for the police and prepay. As always the authoritarian comes out from the Right and more than willing to crap of the 1st amendment when needed.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/walker-administration-alters-protest-permit-requirements-6839brh-134845183.html

david

Hurray for government schools!!!!!!
Indoctrination of the future leaders of this once great nation.
The same schools that have produced the Occutards!
Example!
A statement from a sophomore economics student at Valencia College.
“As human beings we are really not responsible for our own acts, and so we need government to control those who don’t care for others.”
Students were ask to write an essay on the American Dream.
In the essay they must address this question: What do you want the federal govt. to do to help you achieve that dream.
The results:
* 10% stated, leave us alone and tax us less.
* 80% stated, the govt. should provide the following:
   1. free college tuition
   2. free healthcare
   3. a job
   4. money for a house
   5. money for retirement
   6. money to spend
Ask where the money would come to fund this????
There answer was easy, tax the rich!

America is in real trouble, Wake up folks before it is gone!!!!!!!

SuperFiat

Here’s a good essay:

http://www.independent.org/students/essay/essay.asp?id=1612
Gregg

Scary.
GretchenMo

a nation of parasites, at least the hosts have the ability to leave
- Anonymous
  
  I’ll show you the door.
  - GretchenMo
    
    like you have the ability to get off your fat , lazy a**
    - RetchMore
      
      Like a parasite, you don’t have the ability to get off, either.
    - Anonymous
      
      You are clearly not fit for this forum.
      You seem to be someone with a low IQ, or so it seems by your constant juvenile diatribes. I will say you are a parody of a right wing idiot.
- RetchMore
  
  You are the parasite on this comment board.
  
  You have the ability to leave, but don’t.
- Terry Tree Tree
  
  For YOU to call me a parasite, means you know nothing about me, except that you like to make snarky remarks against me!
Anonymous

OK lets not get all hot and bothered over a 19 year old’s essay. My daughter is 22 and she does not think like this one bit. So I know you right wing zealots are looking to demonize anyone under the age of 30, but I would caution you folks in this absurd practice.
- Gregg
  
  “…demonize anyone under the age of 30…”
  
  Where do you get this stuff? If your duaghter has a good work ethic, good for you.
  - GretchenMo
    
    must get it from her mother
  - Anonymous
    
    Because it was clearly stated that the millennium generation were at fault.
    If this is not making them the scapegoat for ones ideological crap I don’t know what does. Where do you get your crap?
    - Hidan
      
      Republican Platform.
      
      -Run on failure
      -Work to accomplish such failure of government
      -Rewrite the reason why failure occurred
      -scapegoat minorities,gays,women,socialism,etc. for such failure. i.e. it wasn’t CDS,bad credit rating,bundling, or WS fault for the collespe it was poor minorities buying Mcmansion with their welfare checks and the poor banks were forced to make record profits by Barney Frank.
      -Run again and repeat.
      
      (If for some reason the democrats get majorities, block,impeded,delay any progress that would show the government can work for the people until back in power).
- david
  
  Reality is reality, fact is fact.
  In this college class, 80% of them wanted the govt. nipple.
  If you had paid attention to the Occutards demands over the last 2 months, you would have heard them demand the same!!!
  We are living in an ever increasing entitlement minded generation.
  Open your eyes!
  - Antidavid
    
    david thinks that people who are angry about the banking industry theft and subversion of our government are retarded.
    - david
      
      No! I think you are retarded
    - Antidavid
      
      Sophisticated comeback david
  - Anonymous
    
    No David I don’t see that at all.
    The fact that my kid and most of her friends work, do so to pay the rent and bills clearly proves you wrong. That 80% of one college class in one school is not what one would call a good statistic of a generation.
    The other interesting thing is if you came of age in the 80′s the “me generation” you might want to look in the mirror.
Terry Tree Tree

If this Sophomore has rich parents, or others that will support them in the manner they want, the Sophomore is telling the truth!
To use this one individual’s statement, as anything else, is fraud?

Gregg

Why does Attorney General Holder still have a job? Why is there a media blackout on “Fast and Furious” and the 1000 page Friday night document dump?

Are the two questions related? And people complain about Fox, LOL.

GretchenMo

I know I have stirred up the pot on this blog over the months, I hope you all realize that this was just my way of pointing out how stupid right-wing views are. I mean who could take seriously the crap that I pooped out of my mouth on all these shows. I am actually astonished that anyone thought that someone could be as incredibly ignorant as I have let you to believe I am with my asinine comments. I am actually a ladyboy hooker from Bangkok, and no one is more liberal than me (with the boy butter when I grease my bung hole). You guys should stop by the Aquarius JuJu cafe in Bangkok if you are ever in town. I will take care of you all for free to prove my real politics. See you there!

PS. I also do threesomes with women or animals for a nominal fee. Keep me in mind during your next sex-tour — toolaloo XXXXXXX

MoPimp

Be careful who you challenge sweety, someone could actually know what they are doing.
Gregg

My heart is broken over the “likes”. I’m sincere.

GretchenMo

I know I have stirred up the pot on this blog over the months, I hope you all realize that this was just my way of pointing out how stupid right-wing views are. I mean who could take seriously the crap that I pooped out of my mouth on all these shows. I am actually astonished that anyone thought that someone could be as incredibly ignorant as I have let you to believe I am with my asinine comments. I am actually a ladyboy hooker from Bangkok, and no one is more liberal than me (with the boy butter when I grease my bung hole). You guys should stop by the Aquarius JuJu cafe in Bangkok if you are ever in town. I will take care of you all for free to prove my real politics. See you there!

PS. I also do threesomes with women or animals for a nominal fee. Keep me in mind during your next sex-tour — toolaloo XXXXXXX

Fredlinskip

Not a big fan of GretchenMo, but it’s comments like these that can get a comments page shut down for good.
If this is the type of reply to her comments she gets, maybe I can begin to understand why her comments have been so uncivil.
Don’t stoop to her level- be bigger than that.
- Gregg
  
  22 likes in 2 hours, these are your people but thanks for speaking up.
  - GU3WT
    
    What’s the matter Gretch? no sense of humor?
    Dish it out but can’t take it huh?
  - Fredlinskip
    
    Actually Gregg, I may have misinterpreted situation. Seems to me likely there’s only one G-Mo and she’s a psychopathic idiot with no other intent but to see, perhaps, if she can get the On Point comments page shut down.
    
    Hopefully Tom will have sense enough to at least ban her from the site, if the possibility exists.
    
    As far as the 22 likes, I’m very surprised 22 people would visit this sight in 2 hours much less hit all those likes for such a screwed up comment.
    - Conner44
      
      I think it was a brilliant and humorous comment.
    - Fredlinskip
      
      25 others seem to agree.
    - Fredlinskip
      
      Then again I now see Gregg is right for a change- The above Gretchmo is a fraud.
      I’m slow on the uptake. Enough.
      Weekends go by too quick.
      Have fun y’all.
    - Gregg
      
      Fredlinskip, scroll down and expand the profile (click the head) of any GretchenMo comments and you will see all of them. Then come back and do the same with the hideous comment in question and you will see but one, that one. There clearly is an impostor.Do the same with me. The comment at 2:21 with 15 “likes” is the impostor. Don’t take my word, see for yourself.
      
      GretchenMo is a firecracker, I get a kick out of her at times, others not so much but that’s her style. It’s not mine but she doesn’t deserve this. You were right the first time.
    - Gregg
      
      They are the same person. Gregg plays good cop and Gretch bad cop and they are both obnoxious idiots
    - Gregg
      
      Not me above.
    - Gregg
      
      Not me above. I am still scrambling to prove I am not GretcheMo which is kind of hard because we have the same ip address
    - Gregg
      
      Think about it, how many of you can look at commenters IP addresses? This is how he about it. No, the IP addresses cannot possibly be the same.
      
      The geeks is even using my name on other sites:
      
      http://www.refinery29.com/super-fun-cocktails-for-a-san-francisco-summer#comment-222465080
    - Fredlinskip
      
      Got it.
      �
      As far as Grinchmo being a firecracker, I admittedly don’t get it, since you’ve been the one recently expounding on the virtues of “disagreeing agreeably” and the need for civil debate on this comment page.
      
      It’s clear from her comments below that she doesn’t give a ^#*> about America or Americans. She refers to America as a dump and clearly cares about nothing except corporate profit no matter the circumstance.
      
      If this is “your people”, so be it, but to me, this is the type of folk and ethics that brought about the recent financial meltdown, amongst other things.
      
      She sold her soul Gregg-
      how bout you?
    - Gregg
      
      It’s not about GretchenMo. Hate on her if you want but this guy’s actions are disgusting. It’s a whole different ballgame.
    - TFRX
      
      I’m not wading thru the whole thread, but there seems to be some impersonation going on, of you and/or others.
      
      That is disgusting. If it happens enough the folks who run this show will make us register. It’d be nice if the bunch of us showed could handle the privilege, the responsibility of things as they are now.
      
      Otherwise how will we ever show that we’re mature enough to have a puppy?
      
      Seriously, though: You’re right.
    - Gregg
      
      Thank You TFRX, you are right too. I hate your politics but you have integrity.
    - Fredlinskip
      
      Two subjects-
      1) the “ghostwriter”
      And you’ve all the reason in the world to take offense- I’m with you on that.
      By the way, don’t you think it likely that the majority of the “likes” for “Gretchmo’s ghost” are by the same person? Over 20 likes of both (exactly the same) comments in a couple of hours?
      
      2) The integrity of the real Gretchmo.
      It’s not about hate it’s about taking her comments as a whole- it speaks volumes.�
      She refers to America as a dump Gregg and you’re standing by her(him)?
    - Gregg
      
      I am standing by free speech and honest debate.
    - Anonymous
      
      Sorry she or he deserves all the vitriol being slung at them. If you are going to be as off base and nasty as GretchenMo is you should expect some folks to take offense. I think this person is a troll and nothing more. That you are amused by it shows a lot about your character.
    - Gregg
      
      Jeffe, do you see what’s going on here? Don’t defend it.
- GretchenMo
  
  They are not going to close down anything they make money on the ads.
- Conner44
  
  I have a suggestion for you to try an experiment. Next time someone persists in doing something that is obnoxious or annoying to you, do exactly the same thing to them, imitate them as exactly as you can. Say for instance someone always stands too close to you when you converse, and gets right in your face. If you do exactly the same thing to them, you will find that they stop. You may have to do it twice but if you actually mimic them, you will not have to do it a third time.
  - Fredlinskip
    
    I could see how in certain situations that might be an appropriate approach.
    In this situation, I personally can’t see that doubling or tripling the # of uncivil disrespectful comments, would enhance the quality of the On Point comments page.
    - Conner44
      
      My friend it is never appropriate, but it always works when dealing with inappropriate behavior.
Anonymous

Well you have proven that your a complete joke, whatever you are. It’s a really a sad commentary on you, not on the state of our political dysfunction. You clearly are one sad and sick individual.
- Gregg
  
  That’s not GretchenMo and it’s provable. It’s a real live hacking troll. It’s a java guru from Seattle, I’m reasonably sure. When I’m 100% certain (and I will be one way or the other) I’ll post the geeks picture.

Gregg

Mr. Moderator,

I urge you to ban the flagged commenter below. I’m sure you have the tools to notice this commenter has used several monikers to make meaningless comments which is fine. This commenter hounds others by making scurrilous remarks on every single one of their comments, annoying but also fine I suppose. But posing as someone else and making sexually perverted remarks such as this is beyond the pale. This commenter has done the same thing before with commenter Modavations.

To my fellow commenters,

I don’t expect you to go to bat for GretchenMo, me or any of the conservatives here but I would humbly ask that you support common decency by clicking “like”.

ThePope

Good luck with that Gretchen
YourBestFriend

I think it is you who are the pervert and projecting you sickness onto little Gretch. A bung hole is the hole in a barrel and what do you care if Gretch butters his? A threesome is a golfing party and I guess Gretch is a member of PETA because he is liberal enough to play a few round with a quadruped or chicken. And if he offers to take care of the drinks at the bar where he/she/it works why do you care — mister busybody you are one sick puppy.
Gregg

On second thought is impossible to defamate Gretch. Nothing could be more insulting to him than his own display here.

Gregg

By clicking the head to the left of the name you can expand a commenters profile. Click mine and you will see all of my recent activity. It makes it easy to determine who is fake and who is real. If you click on the bogus “gregg” comment you will not see this or any of my recent activity. You will see a loser that does this at several sites. The bogus GretchenMo comment has only one comment in the expanded profile. For all of you clicking “like” on the bogus GretchenMo comment, this is what a troll is.

Clamenti44

Wrong again Gregg, this is what a troll buster looks like, Gretch is what a troll is.

JJJimmanyC

Wow — look what happens when someone persists in being a creep day after day and harasses people with their inane idiotic remarks. I say it is long over due.

Clark22

You do realize that Gregg IS Gretchen don’t you?
- Gregg
  
  Wow, you had to dig up a 4 year old moniker for that one.
  
  I’m not GretchenMo and she’s not me.
  - Clark22
    
    thou protest-eth too much
    
    Busted
    - YourBestFriend
      
      Gretch/Gregg has been owned and now he’s just being a crybaby about it.

Gregg

The alter ego named “MoPimp” wrote: “Be careful who you challenge sweety, someone could actually know what they are doing.”

This, and the now 24 “likes” on the hideous comment lead me to believe it is not only a troll but a hacking troll. I really don’t want to believe there is that much support for this sort of thing.

The alter ego named “Conner44″ advised: “ Next time someone persists in doing something that is obnoxious or annoying to you, do exactly the same thing to them, imitate them as exactly as you can. Say for instance someone always stands too close to you when you converse, and gets right in your face. If you do exactly the same thing to them, you will find that they stop.”

This is the MO. The evidence is all over the blog although this hacking troll is the only one that acts this way.

JJJimmmanyC

Stop with the smoke screens Gretch
- Gregg
  
  This is an impostor, expand the profile for proof. It is not the same as the JJJimmanyC below.
  
  I have a job tonight and have to go but I’m on it. I will begin to look at all your other comments on other sites and figure out who you are. I will out you one step at a time. That is, provided you don’t get banned or hack your way through it.
  - GreggIsGretchen
    
    Good luck with that Gretchen
    - Gregg
      
      How’s the weather in Seattle John? I’m on to you, jerk.
    - Modavations
      
      If you can call a chicken with it’s head cut off “onto” then you certainly are. John in Seattle — you should run with that. Bring suit against him.
UMMM22

A hacking troll! Oh my! Better get some cough drops mister troll.
JoeJoNoLoad

God you are so transparent, it is obvious that you are Gretchen because you are the only one who cares about the Gretch impersonation.

CarmyDefan3

Every since the paid-by-the-line reactionaries showed up here this place has gone to the dogs. They are good at that: hate taxes? — destroy the government. Hate a somewhat progressive blog were real information and valuable opinion were once shared? — destroy by with continually baiting those who participate in it with bigoted nonsense and reactionary numb-skull catch-phrases. These conservatives deserve to be hated and any anxiety that whoever it is, causes them, is long overdue and way less than they deserve.

at

I agree, and strangely enough, the first person I can remember who started to post such catch-phrases in response to EVERYTHING was Gregg when he first started posting here. I mean he wasn’t obnoxious like Mo but the general modus O was the same. He came off like some tired political hack just putting in time, but he was relentless in the posting of just such a platform. And I believe he admitted in one post that he worked for some conservative organization. So I can see that such a person might find it amusing to create an alter ego that could speak his real mind (one that he finds a “real fire-cracker” and a name (Gretchen) that he admits he used in the past in a post that “the real Gregg” made below. But who knows? On the other hand if as one of the Gregg posts below states, and Gregg and Mo do have the same ip address - that is conclusive in a way that matching up user profiles cannot be. Believe me on this point. That is the way to go about establishing a real identity first, by matching ip addresses.
- Gregg
  
  At, I am not paid, never have been. I don’t work for any conservative organization, I am a piano player. I am not even registered Republican. My IP address cannot possibly be the same as GretchenMo’s and I would happily prove it if I knew how. Do you? Whoever wrote that was either a hacker or a liar… or both. Please tell me how you reached that conclusion.
  
  You will also not see examples of me hounding people’s every single post. I understand I stood out in this liberal bastion but it is nothing more than that and my passion for honest debate.
  
  Back when I was being banned right and left (as many here were before it was corrected) I, out of necessity, used other monikers such as “Ggerg”. It was obvious who I was. Other than those few instances I have NEVER EVER EVER tried to disguise who I was or use someone else’s moniker.
  
  You wrote: “So I can see that such a person might find it amusing to create an alter ego that could speak his real mind (one that he finds a “real fire-cracker” and a name (Gretchen) that he admits he used in the past in a post that “the real Gregg” made below.”
  
  I have no idea what you mean. Please cite this “admission”. I have NEVER EVER used the moniker “GretchenMo”. EVER! ulTRAX has, all you have to do is click the head to expand the profile of the real and fake GMo to see which is which.
  
  The irony lies in how many times I (and other conservative) have been accused of being trolls, paid hacks and devious in our tactics when all we’ve done is express a contrary opinion and, in the case of me an Modavations, civilly. It turns out all of that was done by one of yours not us.

david

Back during the so-called Arab spring crap, Onpoint did several spots about it.
They and most all the bloggers here gave thumbs up to the uprising. The Muslim brotherhood was given little serious thought that they might be a problem in all the uproar.
I voiced a concern about the Muslim brotherhood being a wolf in sheep’s clothing, that they were just waiting in the shadows for their turn to come out.
I got alot of flack from many lefties on that thought. they thought I was crazy, listening to to much Beck!
Well! I reckon their little coming out in Egypt answer that!

david

And I am so smart that I can listen to both Beck and Limbach at the same time. I’m a fricken genius
- david
  
  And if you had listened to Beck or Limbach a year or so ago on gold and the stock market, you would be fricken richer!
  I don’t take what people spout as gospel, I consider what EVERYONE states and compare their track records, then I listen with caution and rely on my on track record.
  - david
    
    Listen to Beck or Limbach? They listened to me.
    - nj
      
      “Limbach” That’s rich.
  - Hidan
    
    Adjusted for inflation buying Gold is still a bad deal. Law suits are starting to pop up due to fraud and false claims made about such.
Hidan

Nothing like having a democracy where the U.S. should predetermine who can win right? otherwise they should be no democracy only dictators. You do know that the military will still have control even after the election?

I like to point out the Freedom and Justice Party is still far more moderate and respect far more rights than Saudi A. or any of the U.S. supported Gulf states do/would/have who many are/is supporting the Al-Nour party which is terrible to say the least.

If you put down the Fox news you find that the MB for a great while is not the bloodthirsty group you make them out to be. As well the Group is dividend between 2 faction conservative/moderate.

Sounds like a Right wing Conservative

“The Freedom and Justice Party calls for equality between women and men,
but says women must strike a balance between their family duties and
public life. This means some constraints on women’s role in society in
general, and in politics in particular.”

The Al-Nour party is the Rick Perry christian fundamentalist of the U.S. or Yisrael Beiteinu of Israel.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-16007705

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15899539
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15899548
Hidan

P.S.

want to see a Islamist party supported by the U.S. check out the TNC in libya. Seems the majority of the right-wingers didn’t have a issue with supporting them including many democrats and this group’s far more conservatives or radical than the Freedom and justice party. Wanna guess why our Righties in the U.S. are so fearful of Egypt’s elections and could give two sh#ts about Libya?
- BroughtToYouBy
  
  The whole geopolitical purpose of the engineered and manufactured ‘Arab Spring’ was to enact ‘regime change’.
  
  The goal being, to bring to power an extreme, fascist, Islamic cabal, coordinated by the Muslim Brotherhood to further promote a world-wide, fascist, elite agenda.
  
  As always, its about using the fundamentalism element of a religion as a control device over a population by it’s followers and believers.

WakeUpAndAct

CALL YOUR SENATORS IMMEDIATELY TO STOP THIS!

RIDICULOUSLY SCARY BILL BEING VOTED ON NEXT WEEK:

By the end of next week, the US government very likely will have the power to lock up US citizens for life at Guantanamo Bay or other military prisons — without charge and without trial.

This means that, in the near future, a controversial Twitter post, attending a peaceful protest, or publishing an anti-Congress critique or anti-TSA rant on Google+ could land you “indefinite detention” for life, in the wording of the bill. No access to a lawyer, no access to trial…

The imminent passage of this bill containing the provision, which appears VERY likely at this point, would put our civil rights on par with countries like Saudi Arabia and China.

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-new-national-defense-authorization-act-is-ridiculously-scary-2011-11

WTFWAKEUP

THIS A DECLARATION OF WAR AGAINST FREEDOM!

THESE SENATORS ARE INSANE AND UN-AMERICAN!

THEY NEED TO BE STOPPED THEN VOTED OUT!

“Congress is essentially authorizing the indefinite imprisonment of American citizens, without charge,” said Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), who offered another amendment — which has not yet gotten a vote — that she said would correct the problem. “We are not a nation that locks up its citizens without charge.”

Backers of military detention of Americans — a measure crafted by Sen. Carl Levin (D-Mich.) — came out swinging against Udall’s amendment on the Senate floor earlier Tuesday.

The final vote showed bizarre fractures among Democrats, erasing the usual barriers between conservatives and liberals. The 16 who voted for the harsh detainee rules were Sens. Bob Casey (Pa.), Kent Conrad (N.D.), Kay Hagan (N.C.), Daniel Inouye (Hawaii), Herb Kohl (Wis.), Mary Landrieu (La.), Carl Levin (Mich.), Joe Manchin (W. Va.), Clair McCaskill (Mo.), Ben Nelson (Neb.), Mark Pryor (Ark.), Jack Reed (R.I.), Jeanne Shaheen (N.H.), Debbie Stabenow (Mich.) and Sheldon Whitehouse (R.I.). National defense hawk and independent Sen. Joe Lieberman (Conn.) also voted in favor of the tougher language.
- SideShow
  
  Sorry, it’s too late… see above.
  
  93 to 7 on 12/1/11
  
  Wondered where were the MSM and NPR on this, too?
  
  Here’s a great overview from Glenn Greenwald at Salon:
  
  UPDATE II: Any doubt about whether this bill permits the military detention of U.S. citizens was dispelled entirely today when an amendment offered by Dianne Feinstein — to confine military detention to those apprehended “abroad,” i.e., off U.S. soil — failed by a vote of 45-55.
  
  http://www.salon.com/2011/12/01/congress_endorsing_military_detention_a_new_aumf/
SideShow

Too Late…

The bill does allow the executive branch to waive the authority based on national security and hold a suspect in civilian custody.

The legislation also would give the government the authority to have the military hold an individual suspected of terrorism indefinitely, without a trial.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2101270,00.html

StepUpAndAbolishThis

INDEFINITE MILITARY DETENTION!

IMPRISONED WITHOUT CHARGE OR TRIAL!

HOMELAND IS PART OF THE ‘BATTLEFIELD!

‘AMERICAN CITIZEN OR NOT’!

WHERE IS NPR AND THE MEDIA ON REPORTING THIS?!

DON’T LET THE GOVERNMENT GET AWAY WITH THIS:

The Senate will be voting on a bill that will direct American military resources not at an enemy shooting at our military in a war zone, but at American citizens and other civilians far from any battlefield — even people in the United States itself.

The power is so broad that even U.S. citizens could be swept up by the military and the military could be used far from any battlefield, even within the United States itself.

In support of this harmful bill, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) explained that the bill will “basically say in law for the first time that the homeland is part of the battlefield” and people can be imprisoned without charge or trial “American citizen or not.”
�
The senators pushing the indefinite detention proposal have made their goals very clear that they want an okay for a worldwide military battlefield, that even extends to your hometown. That is an extreme position that will forever change our country.

http://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/senators-demand-military-lock-american-citizens-battlefield-they-define-being

SideShow

Too late. It already passed 93 to 7 on 12/1/11

Vote all them all out.

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-s1867/show
- ClaymonD45
  
  Vote them all out, and put progressives in, because we have seen that the conservatives are just a hit squad for the billionaire hegemony. And the first one to get rid of is Cantor and his ilk.
  - SuperFiat
    
    Get real, the days of Democrats riding to the rescue are over and never were. True Progressives, who value the protections of the Constitution are joining with progressive minded libertarians to form a new majority….
    
    http://reason.com/blog/2011/09/28/ralph-nader-hearts-ron-paul-ha
JonS

Thank God the ACLU does not set counter-terrorism policy in the US and rational sober-minded responsible adults still reside in the US Senate even if they don’t reside on this comments page.
- nj
  
  As long as they can bash the ACLU, right-wingers like JonS love fascist laws, in this case indefinite detention of anyone deemed to be a “terrorist” with no probable cause, no hearing, no nothing.
  
  Even the FBI opposed this bill.
  - Hidan
    
    These people are naturally authoritarian in nature and without the dreaded leftist they so hate would act in the same manner and fashion as Despots around the world do. You can see this in there near unwavering support for power and authoritarianism. Once knowing this the hatred for the ACLU make sense.
    - Jboy26
      
      And one of the hallmarks of the authoritarians and their cronies and fifth columnists it that they cannot tolerate humor directed against themselves. See the Gretch below.
    - JonS
      
      Pardon me while I strap on my jackboots, dry clean my white hooded cape (with a smiley face on the back), and plan my conquest of the world with the Koch Bros (whoever they are) ,Dick Chaney and Halliburton. On Halloween I dress up as Genghis Khan.
      
      It’s very hard to have any serious discussion with extreme ideologues who are so ignorant. Terrorists held in Gitmo are “enemy combatants” and not protected by the Geneva convention or the US Constitution since they are not US citizens and can be held indefinitely without any showing of probable cause.. Just so you know, I’m an attorney with 35 years practice, my sister is a public defender and former clinical instructor at a leading law school, and my brother-in-law is a well-known criminal defense attorney.
    - nj
      
      You want to be taken seriously, yet you’re talking about your Halloween costumes and what your family does for work.
      
      We’re talking about the new legislation (National Defense Authorization Act for 2012, S1867) not existing legislation. Try to keep up.
      
      That you’re presumably a lawyer makes your posts even more disturbing.
      
      With some provisions of the PATRIOT Act, if one is holding a sign on a sidewalk protesting McDonalds or Wall Street, charges could be brought, and, if the new legislation passes, you could be detained and disappeared by the military under provisions of the new law.
      
      http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/9857-senate-committee-grants-military-absolute-power-over-detainees
      
      http://www.spp.nus.edu.sg/docs/fac/benjamin-sovacool/Published%20Papers/Sovacool-Contextualizing_Avian_%20Mortality.pdf
      
      http://www.consortiumnews.com/2011/011711a.html
    - JonS
      
      Frankly , so many of the usual posters display such profound ignorance, I debated even responding. Except for the most delusional types who post here and are off their meds, I’m sure most commonsense grounded individuals do not go to sleep worried that picketing McDonald’s and Wall Street will land them in Gitmo with other Al Qaeda terrorists.
    - Hidan
      
      Projection much?
      
      You totally missed NJ point.If there’s no required proof to jail someone than how you know their guilty? Besides this bill does not exclude Americans.
      
      As pointed out earlier people like Jon are prone to authoritarianism. Even know he’s one of the dittoheads always crying about the government being to big and having to much power etc, etc. Yet as noted above he sees no problem with our government having the power to detain others without trial.(Dudes supposedly a lawyer) Even know we constantly preach about how others nations should have the rights Americans to.
    - Hidan
      
      do.
    - nj
      
      That’s lame, even for the low bar the reactionary wingers set out here.
    - Anonymous
      
      So don’t reply.
      Or better yet, you say you’re a lawyer, so why not try to explain how detaining people without due process is good for us.
    - Hidan
      
      Of course he’s behind on what’s going on. Poor attempt of him to try to argue by False Authority. Because he’s a supposed lawyer and his sister is a supposed lawyer and his brother, etc, etc, he must know what he’s talking about. Yet his previous response clearly showed he did not.
    - Hidan
      
      A radical complain about others being extremist now this is good.
    - Anonymous
      
      If you are a lawyer, maybe you should try to get on the side of justice. Any law that says it can detain US citizens, and by the way non-citizens living here, is in my view a violation of the Constitution.
      
      By the way the record of Gotmo and those who are held there is not very good in terms of prosecuting terrorist.
      
      http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/feb/12/barack-obama/obama-claims-bush-administration-got-190-terrorism/
      
      I’m not sure the US should go down that path of detaining people indefinitely without trial. That seems to be a violation of our legal system and real slippery slope towards losing the very freedoms we hold to be true and evident.
  - SuperFiat
    
    Rand Paul leading the opposition to the bill.
    - one23hop
      
      Even broken clocks are right every so often.
    - Gregg
      
      Twice a day.
    - nj
      
      Sharp as a tack, that Greggg.
JustSayin

I would think voting directly against the constitution which they swore an oath to uphold would mean something to the media. But I guess not.
Terry Tree Tree

Similiar steps were taken by most, if not all, of the countries that took Democracy to Totalitarianism! There were a LOT of people in each, that refused to think such laws would be used against them!!
SuperFiat

What will it take for you folks to acknowledge the anti-war, anti-banking, Ron Paul, libertarian position?

The modern Democratic Party is as authoritarian as the GOP, just in different aspects of life.

SuperFiat

Battlefield America

http://www.campaignforliberty.org/

With voter apathy and economic fear at historic levels, this is the time for the full consolidation of power.

SuperFiat

Italian Austerity Measures: By Decree

NY Times

“The measures are meant to slash the cost of government, combat tax evasion and step up economic growth, so the country can eliminate its budget deficit by 2013. Mr. Monti took the steps in an emergency decree, which means they will take effect before he presents them to Parliament for formal approval.”

No parliament. Should be fun when it happens here.

SuperFiat

Try to find an article about the Defense Authorization Bill allowing US citizens to be taken to Guantanamo on suspicion without Constitutional protections, S 1867

I could only find a dissenting blog article.

Are you kidding?

Will this be an On Point hour?

SuperFiat

referring to NY Times
SuperFiat

referring to NY Times

Anonymous

Cain dropped out to get his affairs in order.

Terry Tree Tree

EXCELLENT!! ACCURATE??

Modavations

On Nov.30,I witnessed the mental breakdown of Ultrax.He admits to being the person who shadows his enemies, behind pseudonyms.It it only took him three days to renounce his mea culpa.I don’t know computers,but I know human kind.He is the “creepy” impersonator.I know GretchMo,for instance,and she is being impersonated,by Ultrax.I also know Gregg and in my opinion,he’s no “paid”provocateur.I know human kind and Jeffe,NJ,Terry Tree,while politically niave,are real,legitimate people.Ultrax is,in my opinion,a stalker and dangerous.

Anonymous

Hey who are you calling naive. I have what one calls a difference of opinion and political ideas.�
I would hardly call the regressive ideology of the GOP a good thing nor would I call it conservative.
I’m not sure why you need to go after this chap, as you seem to do a lot of the same you are complaining about.
- Modavations
  
  In my opinion!!!!
  - Modavations
    
    That chap,personally stalked me.When the guy impersonates Gretchmo and says he’s really a tranvestite hooker in Bangkok,I’d say there is a problem.My god, he spends hours shadowing people with inanity.This is not a spokeman I’d want to stand behind,or sanction.Finally,if there is one thing I can’t abide, it’s a coward.What’s worse is a coward behind a psuedonym
    - Modavations
      
      Of course I am delusional to begin with and my being significant enough to be stalked by someone as vastly superior to me on every level, such as Ultrex is one of the delusions that my sado-narcissistic tendencies finds the most succulent. I think it is obvious that when I am not baiting anyone who doesn’t share my opinion I am busy acting like a hysterical crone which is really what I am at heart. I share the bigoted opinions of my tranny friend Gretchen and I am proud when he lets me butter the bung, because we conservatives can out hypocrite anybody anytime anywhere — you commie, effete intellectual, NPR loving bed-wetting liberal OWS scum.
    - http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX
      
      Moda, who stopped using his real name after day one and since USES A PSEUDONYM, is denouncing the use of pseudonyms? Yup, sounds like typical Moda hypocrisy like when he’s denouncing name calling all the while he’s doing it himself. Are there ANY intelligent Right wingers out there? Not in this thread.

Gregg

Modavations is right, here’s proof. Go to the “week in the news” board on Nov.11 and expand the profile (click the head) of “ModasNotHonest”. The ID on that profile comes up as “Phil meup”, from there you can scroll though and go to any comment on any blog that “phil meup” wrote. Each site you visit will have a different name (M9, The Count, Stark, etc.) including “ulTrax”. Sometimes his name is a link to his blog but sometimes he doesn’t log in that way. Comments by ultrax that are not links on that thread go to “Phil meup” when you click the head. It’s creepy. My previous digging led me to an app writer java dude in Seatlle. I have a name and a picture but I’m not sure enough to post it. And it’s just a stupid blog, I don’t need the drama. “Phil Meup” goes around to all kinds of blogs and many are geeky app blogs in Italy for this particular ID. Other times he appears to look for people to agitate. He’ll go to a site reviewing a movie and say it was awful. Or go to a site about bad hair and write “F you baldy”. Stuff like that. Many comments are in Italian or Spanish.
On the “On Point” threads there are many examples of him praising himself with different monikers. It’s truly creepy and easy to prove.

Gregg

Here is a racist missive “ultrax” wrote on another blog using the moniker “Mud”. Click Mud’s head to expand the profile and you will see “Phil Meup” and his list of many “On Point” comments. The guy is dangerously psychotic.

http://joel.net/EBONICS/Translator#comment-362515247
- Gregg
  
  Here’s a sexist comment made by ultrax under the name “Stark” on some site called “Men are better than women” dot com, click the head for proof. See if the tone sounds familiar:
  
  http://www.menarebetterthanwomen.com/why-women-hate-sex/#comment-372503491Actually Sweets, Private Eyes has it right. Feminism is full of double standards and contradictions. Equal pay in construction when the man does the harder work more efficiently Equal pay yet men are expected to pay the bill? Women equality yet mother’s get custody 9/10 times? Woman want to vote equally but not get drafted like men? A Man can’t hit a girl but she can hit the man? I’m a Chauvinist and we have our beliefs but at least we don’t bullshit what we want if we wanted equality (which we don’t because we’re better than women) we’d take the equality both THE GOOD AND THE BAD. Women take equality only when it benefits them. Don’t call chauvinists hypocrites, we’re nothing close to hypocrisy when compares to feminists. And as far as you’re “Chauvinist men are so stupid and full of themselves that they don’t even know what the word “no” means.” 1.) What basis do you have to profile us as such? I’m at the University of Harvard on several scholarships and maintaining a 4.0GPA 2.) Full of ourselves? I know very polite and shy chauvinists so there’s another point of yours out the window. 3.) Don’t know what the word “no” means? You’re just pulling this out of your ass my dear, perhaps you should go back to your grade 12 Sociology course.LikeReply
  - Gregg
    
    Here’s another on the same blog. Dude’s sick. I cleaned up the f word.
    
    Shame on me for trying to have an intellectual argument with a woman especially one that’s as brain dead as you. First off where the f*** did I say men get away with being hypocrites? I just said: women especially feminist are far more hypocritical and as such have no right to call men hypocrites (you managed to prove MY point by failing to provide any examples of men being hypocrites/having double standards.) Second, I’m not being a show off, I’m just making it clear chauvinists are not stupid, sure there are stupid chauvinists just as there are stupid feminists such as yourself. Third, let me finish your breakdown.�
    Man: Letâs have sex�
    Woman: No�
    Man: -Rapes woman-�
    Woman: *Has man arrested*
    
    Let’s play role reversal.�
    Woman: Let me use a strap on for sex�
    Man: no�
    Woman: *Drugs and anal rapes man*�
    Man: *Calls to have woman arrested, she gets away because a statistic that men are more likely to rape.�
    (This scenario actually happened in a recent news article)
    
    Have you never heard the term “blue balling?” It’s essentially what happens when a normal man accepts the “no” which happens way more than you’d think. Maybe you’re just some rape victim and you think all your mediocre points have significance because of your experience when all it is is bias.
    
    Get the picture? No you don’t, I bet you refuse to see it even if I wave it in your face. Ignorance must be blissful.
  - Hidan
    
    Again one can tell by the writing this is not Ultrax
    - Gregg
      
      It’s him.
    - Modavations
      
      My friend this is Ultrax
- Hidan
  
  Dude Mud’s not Ultrax, you can tell by his writings.Also if your not aware of this but all someone needs to do is change there email account and whatever name they choose to link it too will appear. Stalkers are troubling to say the least but Ultra’s nothing close to the you that’s been stalking me.
  - Gregg
    
    I’ve replied to you maybe 3 or 4 times ever. It is ultrax and I proved it with his profile.
    - Hidan
      
      Meant to say
      
      “Stalkers are troubling to say the least but Ultra’s nothing close to the one that’s been stalking me online.”
    - http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX
      
      Seriously Greggggg…. you “proved” this in the same way you “proved” irresponsible tax cuts create more revenue? ROTF
      
      You already KNOW the explanation for this… that if anyone tires of writing in their real email and uses a fake one like a@gmail.com as I’ll use for this post… it will link in one “profile” ALL those who also used that fake address.
      
      It comes as no surprise that you refuse to retract your false allegation. You could never resist a cheap shot.
      �
      @gmail:disqus
  - Modavations
    
    Dude,Mud is Ultrax and I worry he’s on the verge of violence
http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

We went through before… or was it after this forum. Hidan is correct, one’s “profile” is not an “account”. Disqus doesn’t work that way. I delete my cookies often which means I have to re-enter my info all the time so I started… as apparently many others… using short addresses a@gmail.com I’ve come across all sorts of weird posts in these new “profiles”. No I don’t speak Greek or Polish…. whatever foreign languages have appeared. That SHOULD have been a clue you’re assumptions about these “profiles” is incorrect… but then, Gregg, you’ve never been that bright and you could never resist a cheap shot over a substantive argument.

BTW it looks like one need not even look at a profile anymore. Just putting in a fake email address… and Disqus will show you all the users who have used it. In writing this and clicking on the above email address a dropdown list of 6 users appeared starting with YourBestFriend Talk about a violation of privacy.

Gregg

And now for the moment you have all been waiting for.
The moment of truth.
I am uLtrax and Mo
and Gregg
I need attention
I am so needy
I am not Gretchen
I am not ULtrax
I am not Gregg
why do I care so much
I am an idiot that’s why.
And I am going to protect Mo’s bung because it is the most beautiful thing I have ever seen.
Me and mo and Motivations, we are a threesome from an alternate dimension.
We seek attention so that our bung hole minds can throw up all over this blog.
We are right about every thing and our endless regurgitation of regressive bigotry is essential for us to maintain a false sense of superiority to cover our very real and warranted inferiority complex. Shoot me to end my suffering.

Gregg

Give it up dude, it’s over. You’re outed.

Modavations

The tragedy of the modern world is that people have no sense of shame.If I were you Ultrax I would seek professional help.I would certainly be too embarrassed to show my face in public.Do you realize you carry on converstaions with you’re psuedonyms.Do you realize you take fake identities and praise yourself.Show some sense and seek help,before you turn to violence.

http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

Thanks for letting me know there might be some posts here by the resident impersonator I was not aware ofWe know from your months of blather here that you’re incapable of distinguishing reality from your own fantasies. Case in point: just because you ACCUSE me of impersonating others doesn’t mean it’s me. Why would I bother. You’re not just an intellectual lightweight, you’re closer to our resident Village Idiot. Your nonsense is easily and best deflated with logical arguments with cites to credible sources. For all I know the impersonator is you or some other Orwellian Right moron who was tired of getting beat up and rather than admit they don’t know what they’re talking about, go rogue. But I also know I can NEVER prove that. The only real signature we leave here is our client IP and neither you nor I have access to the forum logs. And here again is the difference between you and I. I can suspect others, but I KNOW I can’t never be sure and therefore I don’t make rash accusations. You, on the other hand can’t resist rash accusations. In addition, as you are oblivious to your own lack of intellectual integrity, it’s also why you make an ass of yourself here every day and are oblivious to that too. As I wrote in the other forum… no one is “stalking” you. But when you treat this forum as your private club house, brag here that you’re half-ass rich, pretend you actually have a college education, constantly post off topic, constantly make false allegations, are oblivious to your own contradictions and hypocrisy, make claims you are unable to back up yet refuse to retract when proven wrong, refuse to ever be corrected… then you’re not being stalked: ATTRACT JUSTIFIED DERISION.

http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

ATTENTION WBUR or DISQUS MODERATORS!!!!!!

This forum is full of disgusting personal attacks and impersonated posts.

Unlike normal forums DISQUS doesn’t create new accounts with unique user names. It permits impersonation and links posts to email addresses… often fake like a@gmail.com making them appear as a single user. I often use such addresses since it’s easier than re-entering my real… and rather long email addresss. Others obviously do as well in all the countless DISQUS forums.

Some members of this forum are digging through these “profiles” and posting some disgusting posts which who knows who wrote and accusing me of writing them. These posts should be nuked.

Thank you.

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