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Ohio’s Vote On Public Sector Unions

With Anthony Brooks in for Tom Ashbrook

Ohio votes on a controversial law curtailing union rights for public sector workers. We’ll look at the outcome and at national implications.

Ohio Gov. John Kasich speaks about Issue 2 and election results at a news conference Tuesday, Nov. 8, 2011, in Columbus, Ohio. In a political blow to Kasich, voters handily rejected the state's new law, which would have limited the bargaining abilities of 350,000 unionized public workers. (AP)

Ohio Gov. John Kasich speaks about Issue 2 and election results at a news conference Tuesday, Nov. 8, 2011, in Columbus, Ohio. In a political blow to Kasich, voters handily rejected the state's new law, which would have limited the bargaining abilities of 350,000 unionized public workers. (AP)

It’s said that “all politics is local.” But in Ohio, politics are national, and could influence the next presidential election. At issue, collective bargaining rights for the state’s public workers. Just last March Republican Governor John Kasich led the charge to roll back union rights.

But yesterday a pro-union backlash and lots of out-of-state money over-turned that law, galvanizing Democrats in a crucial presidential swing state.

This hour, On Point: Ohio, union rights and the first skirmish of the 2012 presidential race.

-Anthony Brooks

Guests

Bill Cohen, a reporter at the The Statehouse News Bureau, in Columbus Ohio.

Connie Schultz, a Pulitzer Prize-winning syndicated columnist. Her recent column about the Ohio vote is here.

Kevin O’Brien, deputy editorial page editor for the Cleveland Plain Dealer. His recent column on the vote is here.

C-Segment: Fast And Furious Under Fire

Evan Perez, reporter for the Wall Street Journal.

Rob Margetta, Editor, CQ Homeland Security.

Highlights

Yesterday, voters in Ohio voted to overturn their GOP governor’s signature law, one restricting the rights of state employees to unionize. It never went into effect, but did mobilize tremendous opposition from labor groups nationwide.

This was generally a classic liberal-conservative battle here, with some crossover appeal from Republican voters that helped overturn the measure,” said Bill Cohen, a reporter at the The Statehouse News Bureau.

The law would have restricted collective bargaining and force workers to contribute more money towards their healthcare costs, in addition to giving management the final say in labor-management disputes, Cohen said.

“It’s a mistake to cast this just as a union victory,” said Connie Schultz, a Pulitzer Prize-winning syndicated columnist and the wife of Democratic Sen. Sherrod Brown. “There are an awful lot of people in this state who love and respect, or at least know, a firefighter, a teacher, a police officer, a nurse…so, it became very personal for entire families.”

“But what’s right and what’s politically saleable, may be two different things,” said Kevin O’Brien, deputy editorial page editor for the Cleveland Plain Dealer. “The entire political fight here was on fought on the grounds of emotion and not fiscal sense.”

From The Reading List

Cleveland Plain Dealer “A poll monitor working for the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections, assaulted a voter at a polling place in Cleveland at midday Tuesday, sending the voter to a hospital.”

Bloomberg “After efforts across the U.S. this year to rein in government-worker unions, Ohioans today will decide whether Governor John Kasich and Republican lawmakers went too far. “

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  • Anonymous

    The votes are in and Issue 2 has been voted down by the good people of Ohio. Seems as if the Republicans have lost this anti-union round.

    • Worried for the country(MA)

      Yes, but the same pro-union voters rejected the Obamacare mandate by the same huge margin in question 3.  Interesting,  n’est pas?

      • Terry Tree Tree

        The U.S.  averages paying FIVE (5) times as much for health-care, as the next developed nation.  1/3 of our citizens do NOT have health-care insurance of any type!  That makes it equal 7 to 9 times as much.  We have the highest infant mortality rate of most developed nations!  
            Do you NOT see anything wrong with this picture?

      • Anonymous

        Sounds like Romney can’t get any respect in Ohio either:

        “The issue does not block the federal health care bill – should it ultimately prevail in the Supreme Court – from going into effect in Ohio. But it would prevent Ohio from enacting a Massachusetts-style health care system.”

        http://www.cleveland.com/politics/index.ssf/2011/11/early_results_in_on_ohio_issue.html

      • Anonymous

        It’s because people do not want to be mandated to pay for health insurance. I don’t blame them. We need a real national health care system, not this industry written mess.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Some people are reading Labor Movement History, and why unions came to the U.S., in the first place!   They see history repeating the worst of itself!  Robber Barons, hired bullies, and a LOT of undesireable circumstances of U.S. past, do NOT turn working people on.

  • Terry Tree Tree

    The Governor and the Legislature are Public Sector workers.  Show that they mean it, and Cut their pay and perqs 5 times what they try to cut others!!  They can afford it FAR MORE!!

  • Terry Tree Tree

    Ever notice how the low-life liars that call for ‘SACRIFICE’, DON’T sacrifice? 

    Republicans spent MORE on the 2010 election, than ANY Presidential election cycle, spewing their HYPOCRACY, then called a mandate by the people??
        If it had been a true mandate by the people, they could have spent NOTHING, and Won!!!

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

      People don’t realize that the MEDIA and Public Relations firms rake in most of the cash from this obscene charade called democratic elections.  Its practically a circular flow of funds.

      • Anonymous

        Huh?  NPR and PBS are non-profit.  Follow the money … to large corporations and lobbyists and secret campaign contributions.

        Neil

  • Terry Tree Tree

    For ALL those that think these jobs are overpaid, Go DO them, for FREE!!  For ten years, minimum!!   Then, tell us what you would do the job for, if it was your ONLY source of income, and you were raising a family!!

  • Terry Tree Tree

    EVERY public sector worker should look up an arcane law, that can be applied to the Governor, or Legislator, and enforce it upon them, as did Buford Pusser in ‘Walking TAll’!!

  • Winston Smith

    The other states should take a cue from Ohio and Wisconsin and reign in the out of control unions (actually they are in control of states with Democratically controlled legislatures) with their obscene retirement packages which are bankrupting cities and states by saddling them with onerous debt obligations that consume ever increasing shares of taxes and other revenues.  This also applies to teachers’ unions, which also hold a gun to the head of society and demand unjustified compensation packages/retirement benefits.

    • Anonymous

      Building a Better Ohio says public workers make 43 percent more in wages and benefits than private sector workers
      On the Truth-O-Meter, we rate Building a Better Ohio’s claim Mostly False.

      http://www.politifact.com/ohio/statements/2011/nov/04/building-better-ohio/building-better-ohio-says-public-workers-make-43-p/

    • cory.

      These obscene retirement packages have been negotiated over many years.  Never heard them called such until the economy soured.  Do you feel like you are engaging in class envy?  We can’t touch the wealthy, but we need to HAMMER teachers, cops, and firefighters?  Does anything about this seem wring to you?

      • Winston Smith

        When you (the government) either are negotiating with one party (the unions) having a gun pointed at your head, or you (the Democratically controlled government) are in bed with the other party (the unions), it is not negotiation.  The proper terms are in the first case, extortion, and in the second case, graft and corruption and conflict of interest since the union then turns around and votes for you.

        • cory.

          If the electorate doesn’t like that they can always elect some conservative to destruy unions, like Scott Walker did in my state. no?

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Most of them, evidently nearly ALL Republicans are in bed with BIG Business, and controlled by them.  Wages, even union wages have NOT gone up near as fast, nor as far, percentage-wise, as the pay and benefits of executives, that make decisions that bankrupt the company they were hired to lead to profits!!

  • William

    This will force the state of Ohio to lay off more public workers, but if that is what the unions want, so be it.

    • Anonymous

      Sour grapes.

      • Modavations

        Can’t you wait until at least 10;00 before you start with the immature name calling.How old are you?

        • Anonymous

          You still here? The troll is now on board.

        • cory.

          Did he call someone a name?

  • Rob (in NY)

    Tom,  
    To me, this Ohio referendum and the margin (over 60%) represents the classic political lesson in overreaching and how politicans on both sides tend to larger see mandates where they simply do not exist.  I believe that these pension and other post retirement benefits paid to public sector employees are out of whack with economic reality in many cases (speaking most specifically about many programs in my home state of New York), but Kasich and other governors do not need to change collective bargaining laws to reign in these programs.  They only need some political will and negotiating skills. Voters will understand the basic math and how some of these benefits are out of whack with economic reality and private sector benefits, but I have always thought voters would be less sympathetic to ideological fights that limit legal rights.   As an example, Governors Chris Christie in NJ and Andrew Cuomo in NY shown recent success reigning in many of these benefits.  Despite having very different governing and negotiating styles, both focused on the economics and maintained a hard line negotiating stance rather than engaging in ideological fights to change the law.    

  • Kathy

    This is why unions have a bad reputation:  Our police department, some years ago, were granted a $1000/yr stipend PER OFFICER for carrying a defibrillator in their trunk.  Problem?  Our town does not OWN a defibrillator.  In this year’s contract, they wanted to roll the previously transparent stipend into their base salalry.  They also wanted $750 PER OFFICER for having to work without a contract for a year.  They contracted for an increase in the ‘base hours’ worked in private sector detail work.  Instead of 4 hrs it’s now 8.  So, if they work 4 hrs 20 minutes in private sector detail, in the past they would have been paid for 4 hrs & 20 minutes.  Now, they’ll be paids for 8.  Conveniently, a new Stop & Shop is being built in our town in the next year.  Oh, and they’re getting a 3% raise.  Whoopee. 

  • Kathy

    ps – the selectmen supported this contract.  One justification is the private company will pay for the excess private sector detail work (anyone see costs passed own to the customer????).  The townspeople had to vote to approve it.  In a raised hand vote, it was too close to count so there was a standing vote.  Some who had ‘opposed’ it with their hand ‘supported’ it in standing.  Fear of retribution?

  • Rob (in NY)

    Tom,
    Regarding the question of “larger national implications”, please challenge your guests to the extent that this or any other election yesterday means anthing for 2012 (e.g. voters in Ohio also adopted a referndum to opt out of federal health mandate that is probably meaningless and a couple of Republican governors were relected).  As noted in earlier comment, this Ohio referendum is a lesson about overreaching.  Nothing more.  If anyone tries to argue that this means anything large about 2012, please remind them about the basic math involved with the US Senate races in 2012 (see link below).  

     Whether President Obama is reelected or there is a new Republican President elected next year, he will have to contend with a US Senate that is fairly close to 50/50, which means compromise if they want to accomplish anything.    

    Here is the Senate math for next year.   The current Senate is 53-47 in favor of Democrats.  IN 2012, Democrats are defending 23 of the 33 seats that are up for election and over 50% of these seats are in states that Bush carried in either 2004 or 2008.  In contrast, the GOP is only defending two seats in largely Democratic states (Scott Brown in MA and Olympia Snowe in ME) and both of these candidates are running at least at 50% based on recent polling data in Real Clear Politics.  

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/senate/2012_elections_senate_map.html

    • Anonymous

      I think Brown will lose. There is also a good chance the GOP will scare people to vote for the Democrats in those Red and swing states. If the people of Mississippi voted against one the GOP’s new ideas to over turn Roe vs Wade I think this bodes well for Democrats.
      I read yesterday that the GOP wants to make the Mississippi Person-hood law a national agenda. If they keep going to these extremes they will isolate all but their extremist base.  

      • Modavations

        Where did you read that?.If you said Brown would win,I’d faint.I remember when Rep.Van Holland said ,Dems. were poised to pick up seats in the 2010 election.I remember the Boston Globe,the week before the election,saying Brown was behind by 12 pts.I’d call the whiole thing a wash.Where is Kasisch going to get the money to pay the unions.He’s now forced fire people.I do congratulate you guys on the win,however.Too bad about Virginia.The best thing that ever happened for the “right”,was the loss of the abortion law!!!!Even Mississipi “barbarians”,as you call them,had some sense.

      • Modavations

        I’m still waiting.Where did you read that?

      • Modavations

        Jeffe,you are the left’s extremist base.That is why it’s 34% Rep.33% Democrat and 33% independents.The Independents,while not a fixed phenomenom,go right.I think we’re about to see a 3rd Party.Maybe Bloomberg,Trumps types.

        • Anonymous

          I’m not extreme. Well too you I am, but I’m more akin to Social Democrat than anything else. I’m not one of those who says “lets drown the government in the bath tub”, that’s for sure.

          • Modavations

            Jeffe,in my opinion you are extreme and immature

      • Modavations

        Jeffe,if you’re blowing smoke,no need to reply,however,I’d love to read the article you quote,about taking the abortion debate national.It would be a disaster for the right,so I’m quite interested

        • Anonymous

          It’s from the Huffington Post. However the info is from the Personhood USA web site. It seems this is going national.

          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/08/personhood-abortion-bans-_n_1082344.html?ref=politics

          • Modavations

            Do you consider the Huffington Post a valid News source?.I’m not even going to bother.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            You ignored the Personhood lead!  Biased?

          • Modavations

            Anything the H.Post uses, makes it null and void.The most biased of the biased and often,down right hate speech

      • Worried for the country(MA)

        If Brown is defeated the people of MA will be the losers.  Brown is a quality representative and monolithic representation from the far left wing of the Democratic party will not help the state.  Granted the two party is more important in the state legislature.  Brown’s existence will help recruit quality local GOP reps.

        The people would be better served with Warren running against a do-nothing like live-shot Kerry.

        • Anonymous

          Brown voted to strike down 11 Clean Air Act rules thus endangering our health.

          Brown voted to keep tax subsidies for oil companies.

          Brown voted against the Jobs bill.

          Brown voted against student loans.

          That’s not my idea of quality representation.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

    Its becoming quite conspicuous lately that govt sector workers and retirees have been least affected by the bad economy.  People in the private sector have born the brunt of unemployment, particularly small business people who are not eligible for unemployment insurance.

    Federal workers in the D.C. are have already started their Christmas shopping unaffected by the rest of the country. 

    There is considerably a lot of dead weight in public service, particularly in police and fire departments.   Education if anything should be getting top priority, particularly teachers as opposed to administrators.

    But its all coming to a head…  Greece…. Italy…. USA is next.

    • Anonymous

      The USA is not Greece or Italy. So you are going to dump on government workers. By the way 50% are in the military or in support of them.

      Federal workers in the D.C. are have already started their Christmas shopping unaffected by the rest of the country.

      Red herring statement if there ever was one. Also this kind of divisive comment does nothing to address any of the real issues we are facing.  I know lets layoff hundreds and thousands of government workers. Wow that’s a great plan, add to the unemployment rolls.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

        Red Herring ???

        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2058705/DC-leads-list-shopaholic-cities-America–New-York-doesnt-make-ten.html

        I am not against government employment, and I do agree with Keynesian strategies at the right conditions.   My point is that public employment has avoided this recession,  and remains inefficient.

        The US military and defense department can be cut by 75% and still defend the USA.    Police departments have gone crazy with federal subsidies to militarize them.  TSA should be shut down immediately.

        And yes,  the USA has bigger problems than Europe.  You will eventually come to see.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

          The link is from the Daily Mail,  its title:

          DC leads list of most shopaholic cities in America – and New York doesn’t even make it into top ten

          Check out the photo… GS-10 somethings (or their wives) weighted down with Macy’s shopping bags.

           

          • Anonymous

            So. I’m not sure why the issue of people doing well and who are paid well is an issue. The issue for me is you’re using them as some kind of scapegoat for the downturn. What’s the point? We should lay off these people? Is this what your saying. Meanwhile the CEO’s of America have made record bonuses and I’m not hearing much of the same kind of complaints about that.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

            We should lay off these people?

            They produce nothing.  Many are political hacks,  or escapees from Wall Street  who had connections to get into the Treasury Dept. or Fed Res. (non-govt but totally taxpayer supported).
            Most of the people in Wash. D.C. are useless parasites.  Yes, I resent them having a better standard of living than an unemployed tradesman.

            CEOs are certainly at fault but they are less a problem than bloated and useless govt. 

          • Anonymous

            How do you know that the people in Macy’s are the same ones you’re going on about here? You don’t. I’m not going to debate someone who posts things like this: Most of the people in Wash. D.C. are useless parasites As I said, and if you read my comment, I’m for transparency and efficiency, not for blaming everyone who works for government. So if the military is about 50% of the US government workforce and being that you think all government workers are parasites, I guess those folks putting their lives on the line for you to have the freedom to post here this morning are parasites.   

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

            To be sure, these soldiers are not putting their lives on the line for ME !!!  

            This is an anachronistic patriotic jingo.    If you send your sons and daughters off to war in the Middle East,  its not about your freedom.
            More so defense contractors, Oil Conglomerates and Israel.

          • Anonymous

            The idea of our standing military is defense. These people make up about 50% of the Federal wages payed out by the government.
            I was not talking about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. You like to put words in peoples mouths. You have a lot of nerve. I’m done.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Read the OATH they take, to be in the military!   Where the government sends them is another thing altogether!
                 I AGREE with you, and USMC General Smedley Butler does too, that the millitary is sent on wrong missions.  They have NO option until they can PROVE they are under an un-lawful  order!

          • Terry Tree Tree

            ENCORE!!!  I AGREE!!

          • Terry Tree Tree

            EXCELLENT IDEAS!!!

          • Modavations

            I’m gonna mark this day.You’ve finally said something sensible.Even though their not your ideas,I’ll give you a star.

          • Anonymous

            GS 10′s make about 55k per year. Thats alot more than minimum wage but it sure wont buy you a mansion or a fancy car. If your raising a family its gone real fast. GS 10 is middle class, so wtf?

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

            A typical family in DC is two GS-10+, or a GS something with a lawyer who works for a lobbyist or govt contract, etc, etc. 

            And its not so much their salaries,  as it is the healthy govt subsidized equity in their homes that they still get to leverage.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            A TYPICAL DC family?  Secretaries, U.S. Millitary officers and Enlisteds, burger-flippers, trash collectors, teachers, police, fire, etc…?

          • Modavations

            Learn more skills and you make more bucks.

        • Anonymous

          I guess you’re the expert on financial matters. I never said we had smaller problems than Europe, I said the US is not Greece nor Italy.
          You posts these generalizations and tar all government workers with one brush. Then you post some arbitrary figure of cutting the military by 75%. Don’t get wrong I’m all for cutting the military budget in half if we can. But how we do this is the problem. It’s the military contracts that are the huge money hogs, not the grunts.

      • Modavations

        D.C., has supplanted San Jose as the country’s richest town.

    • Hidan

      Fire and Police deserve a Hair cut in pay and benefits. There’s some much corruption in both and tons of patronage hiring between the two.

      • Anonymous

        I agree. There needs to be some reforms in this sector.
        The flag issue in Massachusetts is absurd. I see it in my neighborhood a cop standing around on a dead end street while they do a little road work. What a waste.  

      • cory.

        I disagree.  Deputies and firefighters top out between 50-60k where I live.  Back in the day this was just considered a good family supporting job, not some assault on the poor taxpayer.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

          I know cops in the US making up to $150K with overtime/details and firemen have it the easiest.  Some of them have one or two businesses on the side that they work on their govt time.   Its the cushiest job available.

          • cory.

            Really?  Better than Kobe Bryant or the CEO of an investment bank?  The leftfielder for my local baseball team makes 10milion per year to PLAY BASEBALL.  I’m completely OK with what cops, teachers, and firefighters make relative to the other individuals I’ve mentioned.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

            I do not put cops and firemen on the same pedestal as teachers.

            Sports figures and CEOs are an obscenity, but still a small part of the problem.

          • cory.

            We aren’t all that far apart after all…

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Go get one, if they are so cushy, and so high-paying.  Over-time pay is for time above and beyond the established hours that take away from family time, holidays, rest, etc…!

        • Terry Tree Tree

          MUCH higher pay than here!!  Fire-Fighters are unpaid Volunteers!  So are Rescue Squad!   NO millionaires that I know of, in either!

    • cory.

      So the solution is to pit private wage slaves against public workers who still manage to have decent wages and benefits?  How about the private sector fighting to match the public sector’s wages and benefits?  How about labor unions to accomplish this?  How about building instead of destroying? 

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

        How about letting too big banks FAIL?  How about putting your congressmen in jail, and booting the rest out?  How about raising taxes on the top 5%. How about getting rid of lobbyists and corporate campaign funding?   How about closing all foreign military bases?   How about reeling in the CIA?  How about staying out of foreign conflicts??    How about it???

        • cory.

          I don’t object to anything you have just suggested.

          • Dave in CT

            Too bad, you guys could come together behind someone like Ron Paul or other like-minded independent/libertarian, but will never do it, instead sticking to the party line (not so much YOU guys, but the people in general, agreeing on important things, but supporting parties who will never do them, and squandering a chance in history to find fundamental common ground and sticking to those who have corrupted the rule of law, for once!

        • Terry Tree Tree

          NOW you’re talking!!

      • Modavations

        We’re Free men!!

    • Modavations

      Chavo,me gusto mucho,todas sus escritos.Hoy ,tu pareces como Herkeles.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Elected Officials and CEOS have been the LEAST adversely affected by the bad economy!!   They are THRIVING!!  Those you listed, are only surviving better than the public-sector workers!

  • Anonymous

    Mississippi voters also rejected the anti-abortion law.
    I guess Pat Robinson is right, the GOP is tacking way to far to the right and to the extreme. Interesting, Pat Robinson?

    • cory.

      Mississipi voting left on ANY issue is amazing!

      • Modavations

        Not left,just commonsensical.There have to be some provisions for a womens health.Late Term abortions will probably,be banned.

        • cory.

          Voting aginst something on the extreme right.

  • Bob

    I used to hate unions being a person who works in the tech world. Thngs have changed. I now see huge money monsters looking to take over the public sector and turn it into a for-profit bonanza who only exists for the enrichment of share-holder value and the rest of us be damned. Ann Harbor Mich. is a good example. The school board was taken over by external powers. Thank God Ohio voted the way it did.

  • Not an Alex Jones fan

    Govenor Kasich’s greatest achievement as govenor has been his ‘union busting’, if you can call that an achievement.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qdh39mbC7nA&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLD828130491FC405B

  • Hidan

    Could the guess bring up the pay of Congressional Aides/Staffers?

    Fire/Police Unions need some trimming. There’s tons of waste and abuse in them. Prison Unions should be on the chopping block as well.

    A cop should not be getting paid twice some case three times as much to be sitting on the side of the road a flagger could do that. A fireman should not be getting paid the salary of someone higher than him because the guy took a Vacation. Nor should be allowed to abuse the pension system by banking sick/personal and vacation day.

    The only Unions I actually respect are the Teaching ones. Dealing with kids is a tough job and extremely important teachers have the tools to do so.

  • Hidan

    While Republicans have use F&F as a rallying cry they refuse to stop it from happening again by refusing to pass any laws making it harder for straw buyers to buy from such shops.

  • cory.

    IT’S ABOUT TIME!

    Are folks finally starting to call “bullspit” on the conservatives blaming labor for our nation’s woes?

    Are the masses discovering their massive numerical advantage?

    • Modavations

      In five years, the only union guys you’ll see , will be  stuffed figures next to a brontosaurus at the Am.Mus.of Natural History.Their time has come and gone.How do they expect me to pay for their benefits, that are far better then mine.

      • cory.

        They may come back.  I’d like you to fight for better benefits yourself, instead of dragging others down.  Next to the two figures you described in the museum will be an American middle class person who makes enough money to raise a family.  

  • Modavations

    Just heard an interview with J.Abrahamson(?) and these were some of his ideas(is there any hack who hasn’t wriiten a book?.D.Patrick got an advance of $500000.00 for his tome and it’s sold 7 copies).He said,cut the size of govt in half,term limits,no lobbyist political contributions and no solons allowed to lobby after office.

  • Modavations

    For all you guys who get your news from Huff.Post,or the Daily Caller(substitute any right wing rag),may I make a suggestion.Read the editorial page of the NYT,then the editorial page of the Wall St.Journal, then decide

    • Anonymous

      Here’s another idea:  Read the news.  Skip the editorials and do some thinking yourself.

  • Charlotte

    WORLD CHILDREN’S DAY NOV. 20TH STORY SUGGESTION:

    Hi On Point, Would you be interested in talking with an inspiring American working with children for peace in Timor Leste? It’s not Afghanistan or Iraq, but its children bear the brunt of a decades old cycle of violence in this tiny state between Indonesia and Australia.

    Sierra James is the American founder of Ba Futuru, a grassroots charity in Timor Leste which helps with conflict resolution through art / creative therapy in this strife-torn country. She will pick up an international grant award later this month from the STARS Foundation in recognition of her work. Sierra’s story is striking: An ordinary college girl from Seattle, she did peace studies at the University of Washington. But instead of working with the UN, at age 26 she founded a grassroots organisation on the other side of the world to help children, and a whole society, escape a cycle of violence. She has been burgled many times, her house in the capital Dili ransacked, and had to flee serious unrest in 2006 – but she is still there, with a young baby, carrying on the work.It was when she was painting ( her hobby) in her garden one day, while working on a Masters in the former East Timor, that she was approached by a local teenager, upset and in trouble. She gave him a paintbrush. Within weeks, she had a whole group of kids painting in her garden.Now Ba Futuru ( For the Future) works with thousands of children, as well as local police and teachers, using art therapy and other creative approaches to learning that violence, of all kinds, is not the way to resolve problems.Using painting to talk about human rights is one of the innovative approaches which has helped Ba Futuru win support from funders around the world, and the help of Timor Leste’s President Jose Ramos Horta. Sierra James will be in London to receive an award from the highly-regarded STARS Foundation in the week of 21 November. STARS supports civil society organisations working with children in developing countries. Communications INC is a specialist UK agency working with ngos and not for profits. 

  • Yar

    The votes in Mississippi and Ohio give me hope.
    Maybe our schools are not failing as much as we think, maybe this experiment in democracy won’t fail, there really is a thinking public that can understand when they are being played.I want to say thank you to everyone who took the time to learn about the issues and cast their vote.

  • Michiganjf

    Boy, are we ever in for some SOUR GRAPES in the comments section today (already apparent) from the pety right who actually believe Americans support their “Protect the Top 1 Percent at all Costs” crusade.

    Again and again, in poll after poll, the rabid right is consistently shown to be the same inflexible, intolerant, fanatic 25-30% of America… that’s 3 0r 4 to 1 against the Right’s persistent agenda of marginalizing the middle class, the poor, and individual’s rights.

    You guys better start hoping all that billionaire PAC money can buy your party some votes in 2012.

    • Michiganjf

      sorry…. “petty”, that is.

      • Michiganjf

        Okay, 2 or 3 to 1 then!

    • Winston Smith

      The reason that people on the right are upset is that once again, the Democrats with their excessive and irresponsible spending and pandering to the unions have created a huge fiscal mess in the U.S. government, California, Illinois, etc. etc.and now the conservatives need to play the bad guy and try and fix it.

      • cory.

        Created or contributed?  I think you may be guilty of some heavy exageration.  Have the unfunded mideast wars contributed at all?  How about the obscene wealth gap?  You are stuck in an ideological rut.

        • Winston Smith

          I have said in past posts that I fault the Republicans and particulary George W. Bush as well as the Democrats for the current $15 Trillion national debt.  But the Democrats are particularly adept at passing programs which don’t blow up fiscally until years down the road when all of the guilty parties who voted for it (they intentionally or out of ignorance greatly underestimated the eventual cost in order to make the program appear fiscally sound) have either moved on or died.  Medicare and Medicaid are perfect examples.  Public employees’ pensions is another great example that we are talking about in this discussion.

          • Michiganjf

            Gee Winston…

            That’s quite a turn-about from your previous post, which stated:

            “The reason that people on the right are upset is that once again, the Democrats with their excessive and irresponsible spending and pandering to the unions have created a huge fiscal mess in the U.S. government, California, Illinois, etc. etc.and now the conservatives need to play the bad guy and try and fix it.”

            I like your new-found religion.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            It took 10 years for the Afghanistan-Iraq Costs to start to blow up!!

      • Michiganjf

        Want to know who is REALLY responsible for the debt every time the U.S. get into fiscal trouble?

        Here’s a line-up of the last 5 presidents:
        Carter (D) – started debt/GDP 35.8% ended debt/GDP 32.5%
        Reagan (R) – started debt/GDP 32.5% ended debt/GDP 53.1%
        Bush I (R) – started debt/GDP 51.1% ended debt/GDP 66.1%
        Clinton (D) – started debt/GDP 66.1% ended debt/GDP 56.4%
        Bush II (R) – started debt/GDP 56.4% ended debt/GDP 83.4% !!!!
        Check for yourself:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms
        Look at the wiki page carefully… Republican presidents have been TERRIBLE for our country’s debt!!!!!

        I know WIKI data can be faked, but it is correct and reliable over long term periods as it is revised and scrutinized by many, that is what makes WIKI work.
        This data has held up under more than two years of scrutiny.
        This makes clear that DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTS ARE FAR MORE FISCALLY RESPONSBLE THAN REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTS!!!!!!This makes clear that DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTS ARE FAR MORE FISCALLY RESPONSBLE THAN REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTS!!!!!! Obama may change the trend, but only because he was handed by Bush the worst economy and job market that perhaps any U.S. President has ever inherited.
        Obama is just one more Dem brought in to make the best of a huge mess left by a Republican predecessor.

      • Michiganjf

        Here’s the truth about who’s responsible for the current deficit, and IT”S NOT Obama!!

        http://www.seeingtheforest.com/archives/2010/01/cato_dont_blame_1.htm

  • Markus

    Interesting stats in the WSJ today. 90% of Long Island Railroad workers retired with a disability (adding 36K to annual pensions). 82% of senior CA state troopers are disabled in their last year before retirement. In last ten years, only 5 teachers out of 33,000 in LA were fired. I’m always suspicious of stats, but adding to this my own experience skiing with a cop on disability, relatives working for state who barely show up, and another couple dozen I’ve seen for myself, it rings very true.
     
    According to the article, 1 in 7 workers work for the government. Think of the dollars wasted. Think of all the people that are highly motivated to vote themselves the money.
     
    If you’re a politician and turn down union demands, the media is all over you for hurting firefighters, cops and teachers. If you cave in, there are no consequences until you turn into California. And by then you’re on to your next job or you can point the fingers at others. Standing up to unions takes a lot of courage.

    • cory.

      And there isn’t any graft or corruption in the private sector, right?  The nice thing about public waste is it is accountable to the voter.  How many public employees can be paid for by an NBA bench warmer making 5 million a year?  Do you think we’d be better off if we privatized all functions currently handled by the government?

      The public vs private debate is the result of ignorance.  It is the result of our owners and managers manipulating us for their benefit.  Public employee bashing is a distraction. 

      • Markus

        Don’t jump to conclusions so quickly. I think there is a lot of graft and corruption in the private sector, with Wall Street and defense contractors being good examples. I’m not suggesting privatizing the public sector. I’m suggesting getting rid of inefficiency, graft and corruption wherever it is. Today’s focus is the public sector, so that’s what I commented on.

    • Anonymous

      Three private doctors were responsible for 86% of all disability filings and lined their pockets with millions. But I have no doubt that our medical costs will go down if we just free these dedicated professionals from the greedy trial lawyers. Or maybe not:

      “Eleven people, including two doctors and seven retirees, participated in a long-running disability-pension scheme that had the potential to defraud the U.S.’s biggest commuter railroad of up to $1 billion, federal prosecutors in New York said Thursday.
      Peter J. Ajemian, an orthopedist formerly employed in Rockville Centre, N.Y., and Peter Lesniewski, another orthopedist, combined recommended disability benefits for at least 956 LIRR employees between 1998 and 2008, prosecutors said. Together with another doctor, they accounted for 86% of the LIRR disability applications filed during that period, prosecutors said.A criminal complaint said the doctors prescribed a series of unnecessary medical tests, including X-rays, scans and nerve-conduction tests and physical therapy. The employees generally paid the doctors between $800 and $1,200, often in cash, to prepare for the medical assessment.The complaint said Dr. Ajemian received $2.5 million in direct payments and insurance billings from 453 LIRR patients between September 2004 and 2008, resulting in more than $90 million in disability payments.Dr. Lesniewski is estimated to have received $750,000 in direct payments and insurance billings from 134 LIRR patients during that period, resulting in more than $31 million in disability payments, prosecutors said.The $1 billion figure cited by prosecutors as the possible total cost of the fraud includes all the benefits workers involved with the three doctors are slated to receive. “http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203554104577001773010015932.html

  • Anonymous

    A hearty round of thanks to John Kasich for giving us all a good look at the post apocalyptic vision Republicans have for working class Americans. 

    Thanks, John, for mobilizing hundreds of thousands of union supporters in Ohio who are now just chafing at the bit to defeat whichever Bozo gets elected Sheriff of the Insane Clown Posse that is the Republican field of presidential candidates.

  • Dave in CT

    Are we going to talk about the rejection of the Health Care Mandate too?

    Voters (individuals) are doing their jobs.  Mississippians rejected the religious-belief-based “personhood” determination question.

    My point is just that we should have faith in the people. When we get nervous, we don’t have to look for imposition of our views from a central power.  If the strident left can’t get it’s full vision implemented, it is because it is not the will of the vast majority.

    It also means if we really want proactive systemic reforms, not just reactive votes and referendums, we need to keep working on finding broad, common ground and principles that people from honest, grassroots tea partiers to honest OWSers can come together around.

    The standard partisan solutions will not cut it.

    I really believe if we re-examined/re-established our core, shared principles, and put the full force of the rule of law behind it, it would make much more substantive difference than the reactionary, narrow, micromanagement partisan prescriptions we keep being trapped by.

    Ask yourself. Who does NOT want to see a broad-based, clear, Rule of Law based statement and execution of American principles?

    Vested partisan interests and lemming followers, who use a divide and conquer approach to selectively dismantle the Rule of Law, to rig politics and economics to their benefit.

  • Rob (in NY)

     
    I keep coming back to this issue, but in my view these laws passed in Ohio and Wisconsin to limit collective bargaining rights are distraction from the economic reality of dealing with excesses in specific public employee contracts.  When people try to take away labor collective bargaining rights, they should expect an  extremely emotional reaction because people died in this country for the right to bargain collectively.    

    While it may be more politically difficult to deal with specific excesses in union contracts invidually, the reality is that this is the only way to address these financial issues.   An example of excesses within  specific union contracts are these police contracts in the NYC suburbs (Nassau County, NY and Suffolk County, NY). As an example, the average salary/benefits for a Suffolk County NY police officer is now over $160k. In addition, I believe these guys can retire in either 20 years on 50% pay or 25 years on 80% pay. The average pension is over $80k per year and is exempt from state taxes.    While some may argue, police officers “deserve” this pay, the reality is that similar contracts paid to NYS troopers are far less generous.  It also  places a huge financial strain on state and local governments to meet other obligations (roads, education, health, etc…),    I would hardly refer to New York as an example of small government.   

    P.S.   I would also remind some of fellow Republicans, the reality is that a Wisconsin type law would do absolutely nothing to address these excesses (because it exempts police officers).     

    http://www.civilservicesuccess.com/SPD%20SALARY%20BENEFITS%202010.htm

    I do not hold the labor movement responsible for this idiocy.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Thank you!

  • Terry Tree Tree

    Ohio, and ALL other states need a referendum for a law requiring that ALL Governor, Legislative, and other positions in government be publicly disclosed of pay, perquisets, and ALL other compensation. 
         Another Law should require the pay and perqs of ALL elected officials shall be set by public vote!  NOT to EXCEED 20 times the least pay-scale in that state!
        They campaign that they want to be public servants, NOT overpaid welfare recipients!

    • Dave in CT

      The first half seems more realistic, still effective if ferociously enforced, and acceptable to a greater majority (free speech people who are not going away). Secret speech is easier to argue against in elections than money/speech.

      I won’t vote for those lavishly funded by groups I don’t like/trust.Total transparency.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Total Transparency, with shell companies, shell organizations, upon shell organizations, ad infinitum?   GOOD LUCK!!

  • Dave in CT

    What do you guys think of this?

    I was thinking about the time when people have compared the OWS movements to the Arab Spring movements. While that can be a tempting gut reaction, and optimistic, revolutionary feeling, there is a very important, and to me, disturbing difference.

    The Arab situations are cases where the people are up against dictatorial or monarchy-style systems, where the only possibility of getting power is full revolt.

    In America, we have a Constitution and a right to vote.

    Why do we celebrate OWS having no focus, no legislative demands, instead just being a mass complaint against the “system”, seemingly looking for some magic power to swoop in and fix everything.

    In America we have self-government.  We can politically organize and enact legislative change if we are motivated enough.

    An attitude of just complaining, or registering discontent, and expecting someone else to take care of us seems to miss the point of our democratic republic.

    I can understand the “movement” starting vaguely, but after all this time, especially all the time from the crisis, and all the information and reflection we have now (Bill Black and Glenn Greenwald for ex), it seems like its time to really come up with a focused set of goals, that at least 80% of the public can agree with and push it through democratically with laser focus.

    If we miss the 2012 cycle, I fear the window will be closed.

    The regular partisan approach will not get it done IMO.

    • Anonymous

      Dave:  We political folks/nerds/yakkers/and/slackers are the ones who must come up with that “focused set of goals,” something we on the left have been lazy about for more than ten years.  We on the left tend to see our truths to be so self-evident that, hey!, we can go get a beer and clap each other on the back rather than do the hard task of organizing. 

      Occupy’s socioeconomic protest (as distinct from political action) doesn’t need — at this point — to do anything more than stand in for us the cold and wet winter and remind us of our obligation as voters and/or elected officials that the scale of our mistakes has gotten too huge to ignore.  They are the fire under a progressive movement, not (so far) the movement itself.  I don’t think we (or the damn media) have a right to make them come up with “demands.”

      Also (as a sidebar) I’m uneasy with seeing Black and Greenwald thrown into the same basket.  Black has been a quiet, reliable background worker — a veteran of Savings and Loan, and tenacious analyst — working to insure banks and corporations meet their obligations to all of us.  Greenwald is more of a think-tanker with a microphone. Give me the quiet, tenacious background worker for at least the next year!

      One of the things that has most impressed me about Ohio has been the willingness of quote Everyday People unquote to sacrifice personal and professional lives in order to get out, pound the pavements, persuade, haul yard signs… and to do so weekend after weekend, holiday after holiday, for months. That’s the kind of effort that wins elections, hearts, and minds — and Democrats have apparently forgotten that.

      To get a sense of the kind of serious organization that lay behind the win in Ohio, check out their website: 

      http://weareohio.com/action/index.html

      • Dave in CT

        I appreciate that energy.

        I just hope, and think it is necessary for our democratic, and yes, classically liberal, survival, that we get past the 99% slogan, and find a fundamental, broad-based, 80%+ supported, specific platform that both preserves our liberty and enforces a Rule of Law equally, to give equal opportunity (not ends) and equal accountability.

  • Drew You Too

    No comment necessary, the vote speaks for itself.

  • Leary77

    Why does Kasich want to abolish unions?  Yes, there  are abuses, some flagrant, but can’t  there be a middle ground? Can’t the citizens demand that the  abusers be prosecuted?
      Gov. O’Malley of Maryland seems to have the right approach- not to look at union workers. teachers, etc as the enemy, but  to be treated with respect and brought to the table for rational solutions.  Union leaders are often the culprits  and stand in the way of this.
    As a professional in health care,  not until the unions came in were pay and workers rights brought into line.  Thus, the field has been able to attract hightly qualified people that might otherwise have opted elswhere.  For a while, in the 70′s and early 80′s hospitals wre recruiting foreign workers due to a shortage.

  • Michiganjf

    More teacher layoffs because the anti-union legislation didn’t pass??????!!!!!

    Try again!!!

    Here in Texas, teachers WEREN’T protected by unions, and since Perry doesn’t care if the populace is educated, we had teacher firings by the THOUSANDS!!!!!!

    So THINK AGAIN if you’re going to blame unions for teacher firings!!!

    Republicans will OBVIUOSLY readily fire teachers, unions or no!!!

  • Allen – Omaha

    For the comment the Gov.’s Spokesman put out, how was the passage of this Bill going to ‘prevent’ layoffs and the sort from happening?  Claiming that those apposed to the Bill are supporting the status quo is one thing, but I still haven’t heard how passage of the Bill was to stop the same layoffs etc from happening.

  • Bobl1234

    Chalk one up for everyday people.  By defeating Issue 2, we beat back Governor Kasich’s
    Koch-funded massive attack on social and labor relations.  It’s a major win, worthy of
    celebrating, but only for a couple days. 
    Then, we MUST go back to organizing. 

    That’s because of three facts of political life.  One is, power can not be bottled for later use: Use it, or lose it.  Another is, Koch’s inherited billions
    can be saved for later use: That’s what banks and accountants are for.  Finally, as the late US Senator,
    Everett Dirkson memorably observed: “A billion here and a billion there, and
    pretty soon you’ve got BIG MONEY.”

    When people say, as Governor Kasich did when I asked him a
    question at a press conference last Spring, “corporations and unions… and
    unions”, they are listing very different entities.  Unions don’t have billions to buy banks, accountants and
    elections with, but corporations do. 
    So, it’s our shoe leather, tenacity and enthusiasm against their
    billions.

    It’s not a fair way to run a democracy, but it is what we
    have to work with.  And we’ll have
    to keep on working with it for as long as we believe our own slogan – “This is
    what democracy looks like.”

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

    Did Ohio voted for George W. Bush? if they did they are responsible for voting an incompetent President for 8 years. They should blame their themselves. Now the Union!!!! please Ohio should wake up and stop hiding from their boonies. I support Union.

  • Dave in CT

    Central Issue.

    Public (government-based) Unions support political party. Political Party rewards with great benefits. Unions re-elect. Benefits protected/grown.

    It’s a basic conflict of interest concept, that can’t be denied. Unless you support a socialist system which does that writ large for all (where’s that money tree?), it should be able to be appreciated.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      You didn’t list those that finance ‘Conservatives’. 
           Conservative of what?  Money and Power for the rich! 
          They DON’T Conserve the Environment!
          They DON’T Conserve Family Values-  They DON’T care about the children that are born, just about the ones that might be aborted!
           They DON’T care about rape victims, just the unborn spawn of a criminal pervert, and pedophile!
           Conservative of Finances?  They DIDN’T provide money for the wars the Conservatives started, and claimed would pay for themselves!!
           I could go on for quite a while about ‘Conservative’ HYPOCRITES.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        WOW!  Posted hours ago, and NO Conservative response!  They choose to ignore the truth, that doesn’t fit their delusion!

  • Dave in CT

    That was a different Dave in CT who called in…

    • Anonymous

      I figured that out Dave.

  • Brandstad

    Ohio has proven you get what you deserve and ask for, and as a result of the vote taxes will go up to pay for bloated union labor deals that promises higher wages than the average Ohio citizen earns.

  • Anonymous

    I am really proud of what the people of Ohio managed to pull off in this vote.  And keep in mind, the unions were late-comers to the effort to stop SB5.  Undoubtedly everyone was grateful for their help, but “We Are Ohio” and hundreds of working people who spent weekends going door to door really did the trick.  Don’t forget, they first got three times the number of signatures need to petition for this repeal.  For the first time in decades, we’re seeing the quiet activists going back to work.  And it’s impressive that they also persuaded Republican voters to cross over on this issue.

  • Brandstad

    Public Sector Unions should be outlawed federally!

    • Anonymous

      Really? OK then corporations should not be people.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Corporations were deemed by the Founding Fathers, to be given short-term charters ONLY, and outlawed otherwise!

  • Stbanko3

    Let’s recognize this for what it really is – another beachhead on the assault on the American middle class.  After glutting the net worth of ordinary citizens by sucking the value out of home ownership, the “ruling class” in America, financed by billionaires and captains of capital now targets public employee unions – one of the last bastions of unionism in America.  Finally, the people are pushing back.  Blaming the middle class for the economic malaise of the country might work politically but it is killing us as a nation and as a people. 

    • William

      But when the majority of people don’t belong to unions how can you expect them to support paying higher taxes to support people in unions so they can enjoy a better lifestyle than the non-union majority?

      • Terry Tree Tree

        They support paying for GROSSLY over-paid CEOs, that bankrupt the companies that hire them?
             How does that make a better life-style?

        • William

          I don’t pay the CEO’s slary so I don’t care how much he receives from the company. But, I do pay taxes and I see so many states going broke because of public worker pensions.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            The past Governors?  The past Legislators?  Time?  Pay?  Benefits?  Staff?  Most of them set their own pay, without HAVING TO collective bargain, except with themselves!

            Actual comparision, Please?

  • Dave in CT

    Private workers vs Private Capital to keep a balance of power.

    Public workers (Dems) vs. Dem government? Doesn’t sound like check and balance.

    I guess in Republican run states it might be a check and balance, but this shouldn’t be left to partisan politics.

  • Dave in CT

    Oh boy, here comes the sweep under the rug of the anti-mandate vote. What hubris.

  • Brandstad

    I would like to inform your caller that Rights are given by God, not legislation!  Unionization is not a Right, it is a privilege!

    • Anonymous

      If God gives us rights how come so many people do not have them in the world? Is it because he is an angry God?

      • T. Jones

        I agree with T. Smith: I don’t want MY rights governed by a figment of YOUR imagination!

    • J. Smith

      There is no such thing as God, the magical creature that you think lives in the sky and gives you rights! He exists only in your imagination.

  • JMC

    private sector employers simply put profits before people, that is why they lobby so hard for deregulating unions, private sector employees rail against public unions because they are envious of what they cannot seem to achieve from their private employers, start demanding pay from your private employer that is put before their selection of salaries to only the top executives and your envy of unions will magically start to dissapate. My opion of unions in general is that they should be fee free, it should be your responsibilty as a union member to donate time instead of dollars to sustain a healthy and representative group, paying a union money only corrupts the goal and purpose of its existence.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ron-DeRosa/173701629 Ron DeRosa

    Your guest said something that’s really frustrating. She mentioned how police officers and firefighters vote Republican in Ohio, but they voted overwhelmingly against Gov. Kasick’s controversial law. This is exactly my problem with public union members. They want all of their benefits, bargaining rights, pensions and well-paid salaries, but they are supporting politicians that basically vote against many of those things for the rest of us that aren’t in unions.

  • Yar

    Isn’t the chamber of commerce a union? Organised business owners are not attacked like organised labor.

    • Jasoturner

      More like a cartel, no?

  • Linda Kaboolian

    Good gracious Anthony, the law is not called “OBAMACARE” – if you want to be a neutral journalist,please don’t use a politically biased term.

    • Anonymous

      I noticed that he pushed back several times against Connie Schultz, who was more to the left on this issue, and threw softballs up for the conservative Kevin O’Brien.

      It makes no difference whether Anthony is personally liberal or conservative: he should be able to treat his guests with an even hand whatever their opinion.

  • Anonymous

    Do people think that state government workers are getting paid too much?  Really?

    Neil

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      my friend’s sister she get discounted housing working for Mayor Menino. her house in Jamaica plain has 4 bedrooms paid by the tax payers. I can’t even apply for those freebees.

      • Anonymous

        You need to have more specifics on this. If she is in subsidized housing that’s based on how much one makes. 
        It’s not payed for by tax payers, I really take offense to this kind of smear tactic.

    • Winston Smith

      It depends upon the position.  But if you can retire after 20 years, get your boss to give you extra overtime in your last year of employment so that your retirement is ratcheted up for that one year anomaly, get a $1 for $1 match on your 401K, get 15 or more sick days per year that you then get paid for at the end if you didn’t use them for sickness as if they are additional vacation (instead of simply forfeiting them because you were in good health and didn’t use them), then yes that worker is greatly overpaid.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        What about State Legislators?  We know that U.S. Congress and Senate can retire after one term!  What about their staff?   CEOs can retire, with a Golden Parachute, after bankrupting the company that hires them to make the company profitable!

    • Jasoturner

      Based on my last visit to the DMV and the miserable, desultory people I had to deal with?  Um, yes.

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        Talk to teachers.  We’ll tell you why we’re underpaid.

        • Jasoturner

          I know teachers aren’t over paid.  You can’t be a competent teacher and be a slacker.  But for “service” type state employees, it is difficult no to observe lousy attitudes and lousy work ethics. 

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Anyone that thinks teachers are over-paid, spend five years in a junior high position, teaching forty or more students per class!  Go to Texas, and do that with mostly illeagal non-english-speaking students!

    • Anonymous

      I don’t think their yearly pay is too high, BUT I object vehemently to allowing wage spiking/manipulation so that a person’s retirement pay is greater than their base pay when working, or the ability of any public employee being able to retire at a relatively young age that enables them to go and do the exact same job for another public entity.

  • Margaraetgilman

    As long as there are hidden engineers behind the scenes, like the Koch Brothers, it is not a level playing field.  That guy with his smug tone of voice, sounds like a Koch operative to me.  They are the private trying to dominate the public.  Economic Oligarchy

    • Dave in CT

      Soros.

      As long as you have socialist engineers its ok.

      Why can’t you guys just dump engineering altogether?

      • Terry Tree Tree

        There has been behind-the-scene ‘engineering’, since Ancient Rome, and Ancient Greece!   How would YOU stop it?   In which position?

  • T. Smith

    Where’s Tom today, and why would the host of this program refer to Obama’s health care law as “Obamacare,” which is a pejorative term coined by the right wing. Shouldn’t the host of the program be a bit more objective? Perhaps an on-air apology or at least an acknowledgment that he misspoke? Ya think?

    • Anonymous

      Chuck Todd and other pundits are peddling the line that yesterday’s results mean that voters have rejected extreme ideological partisanship from both sides and want to meet in the sensible middle.

      Because when a Democratic president takes the public option off the table and passes a health care law with an individual mandate that he borrowed from Republicans it means he’s being way too liberal.

      Now I’ve gotta go clean my Overton window. 
      Has anyone seen where they moved it?

  • Anonymous

    Yes, Pay + benefits far exceeds compensation of the private sector.

    If you disagree, please let me know how many state workers quit each year to go to the private sector to make more money!

    • JMC

      only the top administrators go to the private sector, that is the only people they believe deserve a decent wage and a golden parachute before they return as a republican reporesentative.

      • Anonymous

        I am glad you agree that most GOV’T employees are well paid if not overpaid.

        Thanks

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Loaded, slanted question, like “Yes or No, Do you still beat your wife?”
               Your analysis of JMC’s answer was WRONG!!

      • JMC

        I stand corrected, they are both Repub and Democrat that return after the Golden Parachute

    • Anonymous

      How many generals retire every year (and during a war!). That would be a starting point for your study.

  • Revelz

    The history of these unions in New England shows that they were brought in after both pure self-interest and enlightened self-interest proved inadequate to providing certain services people found valuable. Fire fighting, for instance, began here in Burlington, Vermont as a private philanthropy by entrepreneurs who knew that their furnaces would cause fires and that if their employees got burned out, they could not work. This was fine when there were only one or two small companies and not so many workers. With the expansion of industrial production, the philanthropists had to petition for a public takeover.

    Numerous municipalities have likewise found volunteer organizations inadequate as populations grew. I well remember that as rural land around my grandfather’s house was sold for development, he became concerned about house fires. The voters did not want to pay taxes for public services. A tragic house-fire then killed a family of four children, causing the taxpayers to take a second look at full=time, fully-trained and equipped firefighters. I don’t know how it is now, but in the beginning, the first fire engine was named “Big John”in honor of my grandfather’s petition campaign.

    As for teachers — well, how parents are going to either home-school or pay tuition on minimum wage part-time jobs boggles the mind.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

    How about Nurses Union should they be included too or just the middle class laborers of Ohio? or how about AMA the Union for Physicians?

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    The goal of Fast and Furious was obvious?  Perhaps so.  It looks a lot like a plan to screw up so we can ban more guns.  And Obama says that he acknowledges the Second Amendment. . .

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      The goal was to let the suspects buy guns and catch them.

      The problem is some were never arrested. they got away with a 18 wheeler trucks LOADED with fully automatic weapons.

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        Sure, that’s what the ATF says.  Could it be that the larger agenda was to scare people about those evil “assault rifles”?

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Fast and Furious, AND its ‘W’ administration predecessor, were designed to work HOW.  On the ground surveilance, passed on to Mexican authorities to do on the ground surveilance?  In the days of so MANY methods  of better surveilance?

  • Anonymous

    I think a LOT more guns were sold to proxy buyers because of our weak guns laws.  If the Republicans are worried about guns getting into the hands of drug cartels, then they need to make laws that do this.

    Neil

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      What weak gun laws?  Ever compare buying a gun to buying a book?  Rights are rights.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

        it is weak! Try going to guns show in New Mexico or any States near Mexico. They have a gun dealers don’t check background for buyers. Vanguard reporter asked someone to buy fully automatic guns and the guy both almost 15 guns in one day. Books??? they don’t shoot people.

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

          Fully automatic weapons require a Class III firearms license and registration with local and state agencies.  As for buying a gun at a gun show, I’ve done that on several occasions.  When it’s an exchange between private sellers, there’s no need for a background check.

          Books don’t shoot people, eh?  Ever heard of Das Kapital or Mein Kampf?

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

            the authors shoot people not the book.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            How many guns have killed someone, without a person being involved?  An animal?
               Poor defense!

      • Anonymous

        Show me your well regulated State Militia and I’ll agree that owning guns is a right.

        Neil

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

          The well regulated clause is not the right.  It’s the explanation for the need.  The right is expressed in the next clause that tells us that it belongs to the people.

          • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

            Greg,

            The well regulated militia is the reason for owning guns.  Are you in the state militia?  Then you can own guns.

            It is specific, and the most important part of any portion of the Constitution is the first line.  We, the People…

            Neil

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.  Nothing in that says that I have to be in a militia.  Because we need militias, we have to have armed citizens.  That’s the meaning of the Amendment, and the latest Supreme Court rulings agree.

          • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

            Read the entire sentence, which is the entire amendment:

            “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a
            free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not
            be infringed.”

            http://www.usconstitution.net/glossary.html#INFRINGE

            Neil

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            How about you read the whole sentence?  The militia is the explanation for why the right is needed, but it is not a condition of the right.  It says, because we need some to participate in A, we allow all people to have B.

          • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

            “…being necessary to the security of a
            free State…”

            Are you in a State Militia?

            Did you read the interpretation of “infringed”?

            Neil

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            I’m not concerned what one website thinks “infringed” means.  “Arms” in the amendment refers to the weapons that historically a gentleman would have–a sword, a handgun, a rifle, etc.  It never meant the weapons that a state agency had.  It wasn’t a right to a ship of the line, nor is it now the right to a nuke.

            Stop asking me about being in a state militia.  I have shown you why that’s not the point.  The point was that because states need militias, we need all citizens to be armed.

          • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

            That is the official US Constitution web page; not just “one web site.”  Arms are “infringed” already — no missiles or nuclear weapons, etc.

            A majority of the one sentence that is the entire 2nd Amendment is about state militias.  State militias are the purpose for which we need to have arms.  It doesn’t mention private uses of arms; only for the purposes of having a necessary state militia.

            It’s the beginning of the sentence, which states the purpose of the amendment.  Militias cannot be “wished” out of the amendment, and the last phrase cannot stand alone.

            Neil

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            Apparently, you don’t understand English grammar.  The well-regulated clause is a dependent clause, while the right clause is independent.

          • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

            Greg,

            Apparently, you don’t want to admit that I may be right.  The most important part of each part of the Constitution is the first phrase.  We the People… etc.  Keep that in mind when you read the single sentence of the 2nd Amendment…

            Neil

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            Grammatically, the part of the sentence that matters most is the independent clause.  The Founders of our country were well educated men who knew that.  The dependent clause in the Second Amendment only provides background information.  It’s not the right.  The right is expressed in the statement, “the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”

          • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

            Greg,

            So, once we all get our guns, it doesn’t matter how we use them?  We can use them for whatever purposes we want to?  Why would the writers say anything about a well-order militia?  Are these throw-away words, that we can ignore?  Can we keep *any* arms we want to?

            Neil

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            The term “arms” referred to the weapons that a gentleman was expected to own and be proficient in–swords, dirks, handguns, fowling pieces, muskets, and rifles.  Gentlemen had the right to arms and to a coat of arms.  Here in America, we decided to make everyone equal under the law, so we all have the right to arms.  Arms did not mean artillery pieces or ships of the line–although private ship owners could receive a letter of marque to act on behalf of their governments.

            The right to own and carry weapons doesn’t mean that I get to shoot anyone I want.  Please don’t exaggerate things.  It means that I get to use them for legitimate purposes.  In many state constitutions, self defense is included in those purposes, and self defense would have been taken as granted by our Founders.  The Second Amendment certainly isn’t about hunting or sporting purposes alone, although those are valid uses for our arms.

            And please don’t tell me that I only have the right to eighteenth century weapons.  The right to arms said nothing about the technological level of those weapons.  A musket was state of the art at the time that the amendment was written.

            The well-ordered militia was given as a reason for ennumerating the right.  The Founders understood that we have many rights that they believed didn’t need to be listed.  They thought that our rights were obvious.  Alas, we’ve lost sight of that.  But the Second Amendment was specifically ennumerated so as to guarantee that the states would have their own militias.  Unless all good citizens are armed and know the use of their arms, a militia isn’t effective.

          • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

            Greg,

            By “gentleman” the Constitution would be defined as a white male who owned land.  And the Constitution defined people with dark skin as being 3/5ths of a gentleman.  The Constitution gives no worth to females of any color; though I’ll bet they counted female slaves in order to get greater representation in the Congress.

            The Constitution is a best attempt at a governing document — but it is far from perfect.

            So, you can own as many flintlocks and muzzle loaders as you want, that’s fine with me.  They probably cost a years wages or more.  And there was not much of a police force, and the army was essentially a collection of militias.

            People hunted, and the world was a lot less settled.  Hunting was possible and fairly common.  Militias were a community approved group to be formed as needed.  Militias are the *only* stated purpose of owning arms.  As others have noted, militias are one of the checks and balances in the Constitution.

            Many things have changed since the Constitution and the earliest Amendments were written.  And rights must always be balanced, to keep some from overcoming others.  Individual rights always have to be limited by the rights of the many, and the effects of any one right has to be moderated to balance with the overall results.

            For example, if anybody can buy guns at a “show” and lots of guns end up in the hands of criminals and international drug cartels.  The arms referred to in the 2nd Amendment were 1 or 2 shots at most.  The bullets had to be hand made, often by the owner by melting lead.  They were used *back then* to prevent “some people” from voting.

            The effects of laws matter more than the intent.

            Neil

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            And allowing people to post anything they want to on a website could lead to violence.  When it comes to rights, I’ll take the broadest view possible.

            My point about gentlement was to say that we in America chose to recognize the right as applying to everyone.  Now we’ve expanded what we mean by citizen to many more people than just white males.  Perhaps you’d prefer to limit rights only to an approved few?

            As for allowing me to own a flintlock, that’s fine, but the amendment doesn’t specify the technological level of the weapon.  Flintlocks were state of the art at the time.  Today, we have better and as much right to those as to an antique.

          • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

            Only white male *land owners* were allowed to vote at the beginning of our country.  Obviously, the original Constitution was severely flawed, in this and other ways.  But the main strength of the Constitution is the ability to change it and to interpret it in the present context.  A stale stagnant document is a failed document.

            There has to be limits on “arms”.  Deciding what those should be is what we have to balance with other important rights.

            Neil

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            Obviously, our interpretation of the document has improved over time, for the most part.  I see no reason to change our present understanding of the Second Amendment, except to add that we do have the right to carry concealed handguns.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            In addition, many states have constitutions that recognize firearms as tools of self defense.  Forty states now either have a shall issue permitting system for concealed carry or allow carry without a permit.  The trend is toward my position.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          The Second Amendment has had attempts to interpret it, for decades, at least. 
             One side uses the well-regulated militia, as proof of their arguement.
             One side uses the citizens’ Right to keep and bear arms. 
              It is written ambiguously enough that each side can!
              When citizens don’t have the right to keep and bear arms, Criminals will rule easily!
              Heard of the Mexican Drug Cartels, and their reign of terror?

          • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

            We have police, and we have National Guard, and we have a military.  We don’t need guns in the hands of citizens to maintain order.

            What is ambiguous about one sentence?

            Neil

          • Modavations

            The founding fathers ,didn’t trust government.They made the right to bear arms, the second amendment,to protect us from the Police State.They came to serve a few terms,then go back to their businesses.They knew the dangers,of “Lifer pols”.

          • http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/ Neil Blanchard

            Right, we can form militias to protect ourselves against tyrannical governments.  And the 2nd Amendment allows us to bear arms in our militias.

            But as far as bearing arms to protect ourselves against an anarchic situation assumes that the very reason we formed our government has failed — that the law and order that we chose when we wrote the Constitution and agreed to live within the structure of a democratic government is no longer working, and our society has failed.

            Neil

      • Jasoturner

        I live in liberal-crazyland Massachusetts and I can buy a gun no problem.  No, I can’t buy it in ten minutes, but it’s not like it’s a big deal to buy one.  The gun “laws” are intended to keep the crazies at bay, not to infringe on my rights.

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

          Do you have a carry license in Massachusetts?  Arkansas is a shall issue state.  As long as I’ve taken the class and passed the background check, I get the license.  (Not that I should have to have a license to exercise a right.)  In Massachusetts, you have to go through a long and complex process, and if the government doesn’t like you, you lose.

          • Jasoturner

            I don’t need a carry license.  I only shoot things that walk of four legs.  And that excludes drunks crawling on the floor…

            Now, if a mob with torches and pitchforks approaches my house during the next power outage to seize my generator, I might change my tune!

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            Need doesn’t enter into it.  I have a right to carry, and my state acknowledges that right.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    The gangs of Mexico favor fully automatic weapons.  Those aren’t for sale in the United States.  Let’s see–where would a gang go, to the U.S. or to a third world nation that cranks out full-auto AK 47s by the job lot?

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      They are for sale in America try watching the special report of Vanguard channel. Guns Shows that don’t do background checks are responsible for the guns going to Mexico. My friend who lives in Arizona has AK-47 and M-4 automatic rifles.

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        Are they fully automatic or semiautomatic?  Most gun grabbers have no idea what the difference is.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

          The Mexican Cartel will pay $5,000 for a fully automatic weapons.
          There are alot of military surpluses in America. I saw a Mexican police confiscated a 50 caliber machine gun, rocket launcher and more.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

            Guns is not the problem it is the Cartel

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            I’ve never seen a rocket launcher at a gun show.  Perhaps that’s an example of how the ATF is letting weapons cross the border, rather than average American gun owners.

        • Anonymous

          From what I understand the ones sold in this country are semiautomatic but you can buy a kit that turns them into fully automatic pretty easily. I’m all for gun owning rights but I’m not sure why anyone would need an AK47 semiautomatic rifle.
          You can’t hunt with them.  

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            Actually, no and no.  The semiautomatic versions can’t be transformed without a machine shop, and a machine shop with that technical ability could build its own full auto guns from scratch.

            Yes, you can hunt with a semiauto AK 47, although there are better guns for that purpose.  But what does hunting have to do with the right to own a gun?

          • Anonymous

            Well I’ve seen the kits in gun mags, so maybe they are ripoffs.
            What does owning a gun have to do with hunting? 
            I think in context to semiautomatic weapons it does.
            I don’t think one needs a semiautomatic weapon to hunt.
            I use to live in Vermont and I remember hearing the horror stories about the idiots who mostly used semiautos to hunt and how they would end up shooting up sugar shacks. Real hunters use hunting rifles or bows.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            What does hunting have to do with the right to own firearms?  The right isn’t just about hunting.  Also, there are many semiautomatic hunting rifles.  But if you like the bolt action rifle, you should know that a bolt action deer rifle and a bolt action sniper rifle are the same weapon.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Idiots drive drunk, or drugged up, and kill FAR MORE people!
                 Low-life are low-life, and you cannot legislate that away with gun, or any weapon-control laws! 

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        Firearms are the right of Americans, and I don’t see why we need an agency to regulate our right.

        • Danryan11370

          Guns are for the weak.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            Would you care to explain that remark?  Compared to a wolf, a bear, or a cougar, you’re right.  Human beings are weak.  An elderly person being attacked by a youth is realtively weak.

            As has been said before, God made man, but Sam Colt made him equal.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            You, with a baseball bat, a well-trained, petite, 80-year-old , disabled lady with 2 9 millimeter guns, against a gang of 8 wrecking-bar-weilding 300 lb football linemen.   Who’s the weak one here, and who is likely to survive.   Thousands, or millions of self-defense scenarios available!

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    As I saw in a cartoon once:

    Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms ought to be a convenience store, not a government agency.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      I knew you it. you like cartoons.

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        Political cartoon, perhaps you’ve heard of them?

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

          I watch Anime. “wink”

      • Terry Tree Tree

        ???

  • Terry Tree Tree

    If Mr. Obrien and his associates are so concerned about rising costs, WHY doesn’t his group go against the organizations that function like unions, but garnerd far higher raises and benefits for their members, the Chambers of Commerce, the American Bar Association, the American Medical Association, the Legislatures, and others that have allowed their members to commit crimes and get away with it?
        A report I read, said that 56% of Medical Mal-practice is COMMITTED by less than 6% of physicians, yet the AMA whines about malpractice insurance rates going up, while condoning these mal-practicers to continue to kill and maim more victims!!   Doctors make MORE money now than in 1980, when most union wages stopped keeping up with the cost  of living!

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    The ATF is dysfunctional in its existence.  Do we have an agency that regulates speech or writing?

  • Noelle from New Haven

    First of all, merit pay doesn’t work for teachers.  I have a link here to a definitive study by Vanderbilt University in 2010:  http://peabody.vanderbilt.edu/ncpi_point_findings.xml.

    Second of all, teacher unions *are* reforming teacher pay, performance and tenure rules.  I’m a member of NHFT933, where we voted in a contract that lets tenured teachers go if they do not demonstrate effectiveness.  The first year 34 teachers were let go, and other identified teachers improved enough to be kept on:  http://www.newhavenindependent.org/index.php/archives/entry/new_eval_system_pushes_34_teachers_out/

  • TFRX

    Wait, the NRA GOP has been keeping the ATF from having a director for five frakking years, then they get to whine about it not working?

    Is there any bloc that is more dedicated to the Republicans’ “run it to ruin it” schtick than the NRA? Should we just thank everyone else for playing, and send them their parting gifts?

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Do you support unions?  The NRA is the union for gun owners.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

        I LOVE GUNS but don’t have one.

        • Bruce

          Which reminds me…have you heard newest installment of GOP-conservative mantra?

          Happiness is a Warm Gun
          It’s my God or the Highway
          Yes We Can! Pray away the Gay

          Actually, unfortunately, it’s not that new, just reinvigorated by the Tea-Party zealots.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

            Have you heard about Sodom and Gomorrah? Bible expert think that God destroyed those cities because he wanted to destroy gay people. But it was not actually True.

          • Modavations

            On his death bed,John Lennon confessed that he loved Ronald Reagan

          • Brett

            Wasn’t that the interview he gave while being transported to the hospital in a semi-conscious state? He also said the walrus was Paul, I think…Monsieur D, your story seems to have an apocryphal aroma to it…maybe just a little bit, heh? Koo-Koo-Ka-Joob! 

          • Modavations

            e,please don’t turn into one of these snarky,name callers.Ask me a question and I’ll give you a straight answer

          • Modavations

            Dude,

          • Bruce

            Ouch!!!

          • Terry Tree Tree

            I’m NOT on my death-bed, and I confess that I love everybody!  I don’t LIKE some people, and HATE what some do.  So?

      • Brett

        I’d say this is fair and accurate. As much as I believe the big lobbies often have too much political power and should be under more scrutiny, ordinary citizens need their voices represented by powerful lobby groups to ensure their voices/concerns/rights are honored. Gun owners need a powerful representative voice, just like workers.

    • Bruce

      Yes, the laissez-faire, libertarian fringe of the GOP condemns big govt. as dysfunctional, and then together with their Tea-Party collaborators help elect conservatives to Congress whose primary mission is to ensure govt. becomes/remains dysfunctional by means of their unprecedented, partisan manipulation of filibuster and advice & consent rules…an elaborate charade for governance.

      • Modavations

        All day yesterday, the party of Big Govt.complained about Big Brother.Unfortuneatly,they go hand and hand

    • Modavations

      Chamber of Commerce

      • Terry Tree Tree

        VERY like a union for its members!  It doesn’t take much to show the similiarities of the WORST aspects of a union!

        • Modavations

          Unions to me ,are as alien as Martians.My first job was as a Supermkt.shelf kid.I waited all week for my first pay checkand the Union took the whole thing.I was 16.My next gig, was as a dice dealer in Las Vegas and there ain’t no such things as unions.My only experience is the Union Thug,camping out at peoples private houses,or having temper tantrums in Madison,or attacking the docks in Seattle

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Sad case, if true.  Which unions?  Sounds more like a criminal impersonating a union member!  Never had a union member telling that his whole pay-check was taken by the union.  Many non-union workers are woefully surprised how little of their first check they actually receive!

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    The NRA, like several other civil rights organizations, is powerful, and I’m glad that it is.

    • JMC

      when the NRA visited the state capitol in TN to discuss gun legislation they were privately ushered into the Chambers and the public media was locked out from all and any discussion, I do not mind their existence but they obviously have too much control when the public has no access to their agenda that effects one of our constitutional  rights, the founding fathers would have laughed them out of the room if they demanded private negotiations on this level.

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        Was that a private discussion with legislators who were already on their side?  That sounds like a discussion of tactics.  I don’t see why they’d need to have such a meeting, though.  Tennessee, as I well know, is a gun loving state.  Carry on, Tennessee.

        • JMC

          guns in bars was the discussion Greg, i think that is a public concern.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            As long as I’m not drinking alcohol, what do you care what I have on my person?  Ever heard of a designated driver?  How about a designated carrier?

          • JMC

            i do not know you well enough to believe you are capable of keeping your cool around intoxicated idiots, i am also worried about the drunk that grabs your piece because his buddy is dancing with his girl, and i supoose with enough time i could provide you an essay of why guns and bars do not go together but my point is that such a discussion should not be exclusive to only the NRA and the politicans, i suppose that is why we vote.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            I doubt that the drunken idiot would notice that I have it.  There’s a reason that it’s concealed.

          • JMC

            fair enough, but i do believe a group that works so hard to completely deregulate any and all gun legislation without public input is irresponsible in their actions. It is using scare tacticts much as the religious right tends to do in their legislative efforts. 

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            I see the NRA as supporting the Second Amendment the way that the ACLU supports the First.  In both cases, I’m glad that we have those organizations.

          • Modavations

            At it’s onset,the ACLU shared an office with an anti-war grpoup and the Communist Party, in Brooklyn.The ACLU asked if Ghadaffi had been Marandized.They said they could have sprung him.The right to bear arms, is the second most importbnt amendment.It is to protect the peeps, against a Police State.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            I AGREE with the part about the Right to keep and bear arms!
                You’ve tried to label me as a Democrat, or a Liberal,  how does this work in?

          • Modavations

            You know I like you,your just lost politically

          • Terry Tree Tree

            You seem to be lost, morally.  Grammatically too, quite often!

          • Modavations

            Funny guys.They’d be surprised how many people have a gun on their ankles,etc,.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

            There is town in Texas that they can carry guns in public places. I forgot the name of the town.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            If you have a carry license, that’s everywhere in Texas.  Know what you’re talking about, please.

    • Anonymous

      Greg encourages all of his students to bring their guns to class.  He really believes what he says.

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        Only if it’s legal and if they are licensed.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Caller Ben,

    You’d better lay off those embattled drugs. . .

  • Dave in CT

    For those tired of the religious conservatives pushing religion-based issues on us, why not just stop engaging them as the “other side”, and talk to libertarians instead. You can talk government, finance, taxes, all your favorite debates, with “fiscal conservatives” and you might even find some surprise common ground.  Let the authoritarian, religious conservatives, fade away.

    http://reason.com/archives/2010/07/12/where-do-libertarians-belong

    I like Lindsey’s take…

    and a discussion,
    http://reason.com/blog/2010/07/27/reasontv-where-do-libertarians

  • Rosie

    REGARDING the “Ohio’s Vote on Public Sector Union” segment of today’s program:  Kevin O’Brien’s assertion that the repeal of SB-5 “robs” the Ohio citizenry of its ability to make decisions about the public fisc is inaccurate and disingenuous.  If, as Connie Schultz describes, the Ohio citizenry includes unionized nurses, firefighters, police officers, and teachers, then the Ohio citizenry is already inherently participating in public financing decisions via participation in the collective bargaining processes which were attacked by SB-5.  *Any* decision regarding the pay, hours, or working conditions established for unionized public employees is *inherently* the result of Ohio citizens’ participation in the public decision-making process.  And, if anything, the ability to engage in collective bargaining *enhances*
    the ability of public citizens to engage in decision-making about public
    spending decisions.  It should also be noted that the decision to provide unionized nurses, firefighters, police
    officers, teachers, and other unionized public employees with decent and
    adequate pay, hours, and working conditions provides a solid and responsible investment in public safety and community development.  To suggest otherwise is to seriously undermine the values and principles upon which this nation was founded.

  • Bobl1234

    Chalk one up for everyday people.  By defeating Issue 2, we beat back Governor Kasich’s
    Koch-funded massive attack on social and labor relations.  It’s a major win, worthy of
    celebrating, but only for a couple days. 
    Then, we MUST go back to organizing. 

    That’s because of three facts of political life.  One is, power can not be bottled for later use: Use it, or lose it.  Another is, Koch’s inherited billions
    can be saved for later use: That’s what banks and accountants are for.  Finally, as the late US Senator,
    Everett Dirkson memorably observed: “A billion here and a billion there, and
    pretty soon you’ve got BIG MONEY.”

    When people say, as Governor Kasich did when I asked him a
    question at a press conference last Spring, “corporations and unions… and
    unions”, they are listing very different entities.  Unions don’t have billions to buy banks, accountants and
    elections with, but corporations do. 
    So, it’s our shoe leather, tenacity and enthusiasm against their
    billions.

    It’s not a fair way to run a democracy, but it is what we
    have to work with.  And we’ll have
    to keep on working with it for as long as we believe our own slogan – “This is
    what democracy looks like.”

  • Dave in CT

    Are Greeks “everyday people”?

    What does “everyday people” have to do with our debt issues and inability to get them under control?

    You/we can be good people and still be living beyond our means.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      I saw my neighbor the other day with a new manly gadget. Should i buy one too?

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

        I’m not materialistic.

      • Dave in CT

        iBlow?

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Please don’t solicit here!

          That was tooo easy!

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

          LOL you right about that. I still have my Cell phone. it’s a slider too.

  • MiddleClassBenchmark

    Most people I know who have ‘government jobs’ do so because of the
    benefits received and the relative security of their positions.

    Over a generation ago, most American jobs provided those very same things.  And, we had a strong middle-class because of it.

    In many cases, the ‘state worker’ could earn more in the private sector
    because there are more opportunities to receive bonuses, incentive pay
    and promotions.

    Sure, unions can be corrupt, but so can corporations and governments. 
    What organization protects the employee – the markets, capitalism,
    government, laissez faire?

    If the unions are busted, then so will be the benchmark of the
    middle-class and all benefit packages and wage compensations levels for
    everyone else will decline rapidly.

    Why are unions acceptable for professional athletes and not for
    professional custodians, teachers, tradesman, health care workers, etc.? 

    • Anonymous

      You don’t know me.

    • Anonymous

       Exactamundo!  Please follow this:

      Private sector workers are (rightfully) angry they don’t have job security and benefits commensurate with those in the public sector, whose public-sector job security and benefits are precisely those that most private sector workers received until the last 25 years or so.

      The problem is the anger is directed at the wrong people.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

    Sad…. In the Philippines when you’re a member of a Union it means you are fighting for your rights to have a better pay or safer working environment or to save your job from going to China again. Politics does not exist there is no contributing to political parties. It is about Poor and the Rich
     
    The members of these Unions are poorest of the poor. 

    Union in America it means you have to contribute or give money to Politicians so on and so forth. It is all about Capitalism and to make money from Unions and much more.
     

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      Union for me is define has an organization of poor people who are fighting for their rights for a better life and to defend themselves from greedy business owners.

  • Modavations

    Yesterday, during Cain’s ,high tech lynching,he seemed eloquent.There were no teleprompters and he barely looked at his notes.Are you aware Ms Beiwack(?)lives in the apartment bldg of Axelrod.Yes,that Alexrod

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Lynching?   Really?   Which tree was he strung up in?  Who cut him down?  Or, did the ‘Conservatives’, who seem to have a high number of racists, let him hang?  Does he live?  Or are you just using repulsive descriptions of typical political maneuvering, like the “surveyor’s transit” sight? , which looked FAR more like a gun-scope-sight, of a past political figure?

      • Modavations

        The business of the Democrat Party is keeping poor people poor.

        • Badkarma

          The passion of the republican party is making people poor 

          • Modavations

            When you afford your chattel,school vouchers,I’ll shut up.Otherwise you guys are Poverty Pimps,running a racket.You create the problem,then ministrate

          • Terry Tree Tree

            ???

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Evasion, as usual!

    • Brett

      Eloquent?!? …I suppose that’s relative, Mo-D…What you’re trying to imply in mentioning the woman’s apartment building is that there is a conspiracy against Cain, and that it has been initiated by the Obama administration/someone in the Obama camp. The “evidence” you offer up is that the woman lives in the same apartment building as David Axelrod. 

      Cain himself has been quick to submit his own various and sundry conspiracy theories without any real evidence, as well, e.g., the media is behind this, the Perry camp is behind this, the Romney camp (after supposedly getting intel. from Perry’s camp) is responsible, the current administration has been involved, etc. Cain was quick in seeming sure that he was having his character wrongfully maligned by some nefarious source and was as quick in pointing fingers specifically at others. He was also quick to change his story. He offered even less concrete evidence to support his conspiracy theories than you have to support yours.

      The woman who said she was groped by Cain but never brought a suit or filed a complaint has been portrayed as needing money. She could have made a killing by selling her story to a magazine or something, but she held a press conference instead (not quite as lucrative, I’d say). The other women received settlements, fairly substantial settlements, from the NRA, which indicates they took the women’s complaints seriously and found a basis for those complaints. (The women have not come forward publicly yet as keeping the particulars quiet was part of the settlement agreements.) The women who received settlements have been working with lawyers to get around the conditions of those settlements so they can hold a press conference.

      I don’t know whether Cain did what these women said he did. I don’t know if these accusations are true or if they have been promulgated by someone looking to hurt Cain for political gain, and neither do you. What we both do know is that Cain has changed his story a few times as to whether he knew anything about these charges, etc. We also know that the NRA took these charges seriously enough to settle the complaints monetarily. These two factors, in addition to Cain’s reactive way of pointing fingers, do at least indicate a potential problem with his character. 

      Why are you so quick to defend a man you don’t really even know? Is it simply because he’s a conservative? I hope not. Your response/reaction to this issue is predicated, ostensibly, by an emotional reaction and not by any evidence. And, while the so-called evidence presented by the women accusing Cain has not been made public, there is certainly more substantiation on their end than on his end. 

      • Brett

        P.S.-Glad you made it through the national EAS tests; see, aside from being hypnotized and having a CPU chip implanted in your jaw, you are no worse for the wear than before the tests! ;-)

        • Brett

          This reply was for Mo-D

        • Modavations

          No sweat,but they need to work on the audio.Previously these tests were not mandatory.Now there is a “kill switch”,run by Janet N..Of course you know the FCC is angling to control the internet next. 

      • Anonymous

        Well said.

      • Bruce

        Yes, and the suggestion by Cain that the “Democrat” machine is responsible for these allegations is especially ludicrous.  Nothing would better suit the Obama camp and ensure his re-election than a face-off with Herman Cain. 

        And tonight the more we learn about his regressive tax proposal, the more we will hear the refrain “Nein-Nein-Nein” from conscientious voters and observers who have given it even a moment’s thought.

        “Nein-Nein-Nein” a response to the Cainsyian crackpot theory
        that I’m positive those who subscribe to the Austrian school of economics can readily understand.

      • Modavations

        Yes,I am implying just that.I contend that there are Democrat hit squads,that do nothing,but solicit.If they can’t find a legitimate source,they will fabricate.Anita Broderick got on TV and said Bill Clinton raped her.These women are claiming Cain “looked at them”.Another of the ladies turns out to be an employee at CBS.There are 300million people in the US.What a frigging coinicidence that she lives in the same bldg,as Axelrod

        • IfTheNameFits

          Edgar, your fangs are showing.  It sound like your quite Able for Cain.

      • Modavations

        The lady in Axelrods bldg is Ms Beilet.She has been in any number of suitsand bankruptcies.The one from CBS,also sued her next employer for sexual harrassment and used the same attorney ,in the Cain case.She was hired as a spokesmen for Treasury in 2010.If Cain were a Dem..I’d be just as dismayed by this High Tech Lynching.Next thing ,will be an accusation from some lady, working for Anita Hill

      • Modavations

        Inthe back of their minds, every male employer is saying,I’m not going to hire a woman, or minority.If I were a male boss,I’d have a witness along for every conversation.If I were a male Dr.,I’d have two witnesses in the consultation room,while dealing with a woman.This is a pernicious,unintended consequence,but you’ve brought it on yourselves.

        • OffTopic

          Off Topic

        • IfTheNameFits

          Edgar, I totally agree.  Why risk it? 

          Men know how to keep their secrets.

      • notafeminista

        As opposed to defending a woman you don’t know at all?  Is one more honorable of the other?  I thought we were past the days of all that.  Equality n whatnot

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Where did Brett defend her?  Obviously we are NOT past the days of rape and attempted rape by an authority figure.  Joe Paterno is retiring because of his assistant coach’s alledged molesting, which Paterno acknowledges getting reported.

          • Anonymous

            These two “super stars” (notafeminista and Modavations) have reading comprehension problems.

          • Modavations

            ‘m waiting for the names.You never even read the stuff,did you.Names please

          • IfTheNameFits

            Hold on Edgar.  We’re working on those names.  Please?

            Do you think it’s as easy as checking for them and their preferences in a google search?

            Geez Louise, some of these Republicans are married you know.

        • IfTheNameFits

          Just like Edgar, he wouldn’t defend a women he didn’t know at all.  Even with all of the equality n whatnot – there’s just always too much drama.

    • Anonymous

      So.

    • OffTopic

      Off Topic

    • IfTheNameFits

      Oh Edgar, I know your jealous when you call him Alexrod.

  • Terry Tree Tree

    Anti-Abortion??

        How many, seriously-handicapped, minority, older, drug-addicted, children, that are the results of rape, are YOU raising?
        Or, are you just another HYPOCRITE?

    • notafeminista

      As many of the elderly indigent Americans with rotten Soc Sec payments and no health insurance as you are.

      Always wanting to spend someone else’s money aren’t you.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Challenging the HYPOCRITES to face their HYPOCRACY!!  If you’re NOT taking care of several, you are a hypocrite!

      • Terry Tree Tree

        You mis-remembered about me!

      • IfTheNameFits

        You and Edgar should get together… he’s not a feminista either.

        Yum. Yum.

  • Pingback: How 'bout them election results? - Shooting Sports Forum

  • DiscussAmongstYourselves

    State workers need all the protection they can get from their evil bosses, other state workers.  Who protects the taxpayer?

    • TheAmericanWay

      The voter.

      • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

        The voter, in fact, does have the power. But when you have a dumbed down electorate who cares more about NBA,NFL, American Idol..or other such crap, then how their government works we wind up as we are today.

    • IfTheNameFits

      Is this Edgar?  Why, do you feel you need some protection?

  • Modavations

    Jeffee68,
           I went to Huff Post and then to ParenthoodUSA.There is no plan by Reps.to take the abortion law countrywide.It lost in Miss.by 20 pts.and by a silmilar #, in ColoradoThere was no mention of any prominent Rep. Solon,or Rep.organization.I’m not going to call you a liar,but I hate propagandists.Move On is not a legitimate news source,either.If,I’m wrong.please direct me to yhe proper site.Now TerryTT,while you are a lost soul politically,I like you,so I’m only going to give you a demerit..
         Please excuse me .After reading H.Post I need a shower.I’ve got Coodies

    • Anonymous

      You really do have a reading comprehension problem. The other states trying to pass similar laws are Georgia, South Carolina, Colorado, Arizona and Virgina as well as Ohio.You are a real clown, you hate propagandist and yet you must hold the record for slinging cow crap all over the place. You have some nerve. I guess the modorators don’t care how much BS you dish out. How offensive and vile you are seems not to be an issue. Well it is free speech, but I would add that free speech comes with responsibilities and consequences. Something a coward like yourself does not seem to understand.

      • Modavations

        Give me a name of a Republican involved.Give me the name of the Republican organization.;I read both websites.You did not.You got some talking points from “Move On”.Now give me the Republican names

        • IfTheNameFits

          I thought you were only interested in ‘uninvolved’ Republicans.

          Keep your shirt on, we’ll find you some names.

      • Modavations

        I’ve been waiting so long for those names,or organiztions,that I’ve grown a beard.Names please

    • IfTheNameFits

      Oh, Edgar… I always knew you secretly liked TerryTT, but what are you going to do about Jeffee69?

      No wonder you needed to take a shower.  The thought of both of them was pretty steamy.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        PLEASE, Don’t try to include me in that image!  I’m tolerant, but NOT interested in men or boys!  What two consenting adults do, is their business, but guys are NOT mine.  I have had  offers.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Demerit noted.  I gave it more thought than it deserved!

  • Modavations

    The Boston Globe is writing about the vast # of poor ,in the city.Please tell me how you can be poor when you get Section 8,cash,medicaid etc,.If you are on the “full boa”,’you’re probably getting $40,000.00

    • Areyoureadyforsomefootball

      Poor are defined by tv sets less than 50″ in size.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Then I’m an impoverished union worker!  My biggest is 21 inch CRT, 8 years old!

      • IfTheNameFits

        Is that you Edgar?  It sounds like you, because you’ve told me that size does matter.

    • BostonProper

      I’ve lived on food stamps.  Why don’t you come down to the ‘hood and find out.  We’re waiting for you.

      • Modavations

        We’ll drive around town for one hour and I’ll bet you $100.00 we can’t find a hungry kid

        • BostonProper

          I’m sure if we just walk down the hall and knock on few doors we could.  We’re waiting.

          • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

            Sounds like a thug threat….

        • Anonymous

          You really do have a limited amount of brain power.

          • Modavations

             Are you a male.You sound like a hystetrical women.

          • IfTheNameFits

            Gee Edgar, I never now which way you’ll turn next.  

          • Anonymous

            No, I have something you seem to lack. Compassion.
            You think by throwing childish insults out that you have scored points. But you only make yourself look like a complete jerk.
            However I think that is what you get off on. Take your meds.

        • IfTheNameFits

          Edgar, quit speaking from experience.  The more you harp on this the more people will suspect.

    • OffTopic

      Off Topic

    • IfTheNameFits

      There’s Edgar again, bashing on about the poor.  Just because when they are hungry and walking on the street they won’t take his candy or get in his car. 

      Really Edgar, you shouldn’t act so scorned.

       

  • Modavations

    I will bet any of you Social Workers $100.00 ,that in an hour of driving around town,we will not find one hungry kid.

    • BostonProper

      Kids who are hungry are at home waiting for someone to bring them something to eat.  Kind of like little birds in a nest.  Why don’t you visit our section-8 nest and find out?

      • Modavations

        Spare us.We could drive around Dehli for an hour and not find a hungry kid

        • IfTheNameFits

          Edgar, I know.  But, you promised not to tell anyone about that.

    • Badkarma

      Why don’t you give the $100 to a food bank… you sound as if you have a karma debt to work off.

      • Modavations

        I’ve got a lady in Manhattan I watch out for.I used to score from her and her husband got shot

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Score Drugs for her?  No wonder her husband got shot!

          • Modavations

            He was my pal

          • IfTheNameFits

            So sad, Edgar.  We all wish we could be pals with our Daddy.

        • IfTheNameFits

          What a terrible drama, Edgar.  Let me guess, she was your Mommy?

    • OffTopic

      Off Topic

    • IfTheNameFits

      Oh, Edgar… I thought they told you to stop doing that.

  • Anonymous

    The unions were once the only voice of the working class in Washington. They were a voting block, and only the Democratic party would listen to them. Most of the working conditions, safety rules, and wages that led to the US being the biggest market in the world are the result of this. When big unions went away, so did the voice of the working class. Neither party cares any more because the middle class has abandoned their own interests and tend to vote against them.

    Many people have a story about some bad union worker in a secure job. If this was prevalent we would have no auto industry. It isn’t prevalent. It’s fair wages. When was the last time any corporate whore–including myself–got paid even a fraction of the value added to the corporation? And anyone can be downsized at the drop of a hat when the stockholders got nervous.

    • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

      Well said indeed.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Right On!
          What union worker gets paid $Millions, to bankrupt the company that hired them??

      • Modavations

        Richard Trumpka

        • IfTheNameFits

          Dear Edgar, Richard must be delicious, let me know.

      • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/3ETFGMQ3B7VD4AAMILBBEVMCWE JasonA

        And then when incompetent CEOs bankrupt the place they walk away with the millions they have STOLEN in bankruptcy proof deals. Instead they should be jailed and fined into poverty for their incompetence.

      • Modavations

        Richard Trumpka

        • IfTheNameFits

          There’s Edgar again… what about Richard?  Tell me more.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Compared to how many BANKSTERS??

  • Modavations

    Every phoney baloney jobs bill ,Pres.Obama has sent forth ,was a sop for unions.The last one had 6000 ear marks.Yesterday the senate voted a clean bill out of conference and it passed unanimously.Harry Reid’s got 15 Rep.bills, he refuses to move.He knows his own troops will vote for them

    • OffTopic

      Off Topic

    • OffTopic

      Off Topic

    • IfTheNameFits

      Oh Edgar, your use of innuendo is astounding…

      phoney baloney?; sop?; clean bill out?; passed unamimously?;
       
      …he knows his own troops will vote for him? 

      My word, that’s quite the loaded statement you’ve got there. 

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Look back at all the sops for ‘Too Big To Fail’ BANKSTERS, of the ‘W’ admin.!  FAR more than ANY union work bill!   BANKSTERS already had more money than ANY union worker, but gave themselves BONUSES of $MILLIONS, for FAILURE~!

  • Modavations

    Today the Pres.signed legislation cutting Govt.swag.It will save 4 million dollars.Today Fannie asked for another 6 Billion.B.Frank,take a bow.

    • OffTopic

      Off Topic

    • IfTheNameFits

      Dear Edgar, you always harp about B. Frank. You don’t like him – like him, do you? (Especially when he’s taking a bow.)

      • ulTRAX

        Didn’t Newt just admit he took $300k being a lobbyist for Freddie as they hoped to thwart reforms?

    • Modavations

      billion

  • Modavations

    I will offer anyone $100.00, if we can find a hungry kid in Boston,in one hour.The business of the Dem.party is to keep poor people poor.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Is your money as good (?) as Gregg’s?  He offered me $300.oo on here a few months ago, to listen to a speech.  I listened, he NEVER paid!   Good ole ‘Conservatives’, promises, but NO money for anyone but the GREEDY rich!!

      • Zing

        Give us your name address and phone and we’ll look into it for you.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          With your history?

        • Gary2

          If you have all the money to throw around please send to WI.  I only eat 1 meal per day.  I am really tired of always  being hungry.  The food pantries are almost empty and I can not remember the last time I had anything fresh and not in a can/box.  This is no joke.  I will send name/address.

          • Modavations

            Dude,if you’re for real,leave an address.I’ll send you $50.00.

          • IfTheNameFits

            Oh, Edgar.  What will you expect in return?  Your wishes might not be granted.

          • Gary2

            W.310 S.8737 Casper Drive
            Mukwonago, WI 53149

            I am for real.
            Thanks

          • IfTheNameFits

            Please, let us all know when Edgar sends you the Grant.

        • IfTheNameFits

          Now your acting like the real J. Edgar.  Keep it up big boy.

      • Modavations

        If you’re serious I’ll take you up on the bet.We’ll drive around for an hour and ask kids if their hungry

        • IfTheNameFits

          There’s Edgar again.  With his same offer. 

          So what are you going to do when you find these hungry kids, offer them some candy J. Edgar?

    • BeyondPitiful

      The problem with the republican party is that they are usually associated with poor souls like you.

      Why don’t you call the number below, I’m sure Ms. Griffin would be very happy to take you up on your inane bet.

      Daphne Griffin, Chief of Human Services, City of Boston 617-635-1413

      • Zing

        I called and she was gone for the day.

        • Anonymous

          Zing, someone should zap you.

          • Modavations

            How old are you

          • IfTheNameFits

            There’s Edgar, again.  Why do you want to know – are you interested in something?

          • Anonymous

            You have to be kidding. This from the man who consistently acts as some kind of spoiled 10 year old boy.

        • IfTheNameFits

          There’s another Edgar.  Pretending and lying.  How many people are in the office at 7:57 PM Mr. J. Edgar?

      • Modavations

        My party is called “Wolverines”.We’ve fought you Totalitarians since the beginning of time.I called the office.The machine answered,Office of Poverty Pimps

        • OffTopic

          Off Topic

        • IfTheNameFits

          There’s Edgar again, making fun of social services and comparing them to pimps. 

          I guess that would make the poor and hungry whores, huh, J. Edgar?

    • Gary2

      How about a hungry kid in Milwaukee WI?  I can find you 4 right now-my own.  So now you can send $400 which we could desperately use?

    • OffTopic

      Off Topic

    • IfTheNameFits

      There’s Edgar again.  The poor and hungry don’t exist in your myopic eyes.  Why don’t you hunt for some Commies instead.  According to you, they are all over the place.

    • ulTRAX

      Given there is WIC and Food Stamps, would not any hungry child be more the responsibility of irresponsible parents?

  • thinkingperson

    Public employee unions extract money from the taxpayers!!!!!  Who represents them?  Is anybody here looking at a little country in Europe named GREECE????  Fiscal sustainability should be the goal here, requiring public unions (which even FDR didn’t think should be able to unionize)  to bow to the taxpayers and enable structural changes, big ones.  Or you’ll go down the route of CA, IL, RI, and Greece, maybe Italy.  Public sector unions should represent the taxpayer, not themselves.  Just as teachers should stand for what is right for kids, not teachers.  When pigs fly.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      How much pay and benefits does your Governor and Legislators get?  For how long?  If they quit?   If they commit a crime?

    • Anonymous

      No.  The goal should be getting the job done at a fair cost to the taxpayer AND a fair wage to the worker, unlike the private sector where workers often sacrifice wages and benefits and then CEO’s turn around and give themselves big, fat bonuses.  Fair should be fair all the way around.  If the taxpayers of Ohio thought they were being ripped off by public sector unions, they would not have overturned this bill, the real purpose of which (as funded by ALEC and front groups for the Koch Bros. and other corporations) was to undermine workers rights.

  • Zing

    Speaking of big pensions…will roach paterno hear the cries of a child when he cashes  his checks?

    • OffTopic

      Off Topic

    • IfTheNameFits

      There’s another Edgar, despicably joking about a heinous crime.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KWZQE4YDDJPBNH2KYX4OPEWKTQ verticalhorizontaldiagonal

    Ohio has cut taxes substantially in the past years, passing the financial burden to local communities. Many of these tax cuts have benefited the wealthiest Ohioans. Essentially, Kasich has passed the costs of these tax cuts down to public workers and municipalities.

  • Guh3

    I’ve always felt that public unions are a vital part of the checks and balances in this country. They’re often the only entity with any power that can oppose bad policy decisions, especially those that are politically expedient. Bad ideas involving education (a vital service I might add, not a “special interest”), fire & crime prevention happen all the time. If no one can say “no” or dispute them they can literally rule with an iron fist. Who’s better to equipped to assess a situation accurately? An official who gets paid to sit in an office or the people who actually went to school and do the work?

  • Modavations

    There are 300 million people in the US and Ms.Bielik lives in the same bldg as MR.Axelrod.Ms.Krauschauer(?)(this is her second sex harrassment case, with the same lawyer)works for Treasury.She started in 2010.Does she know Pres. Obama.?These women are making claims that are  12 years old.They are accusing Cain of “looking at them”,not raping them.Anita Broderick did an interview,saying Bill Clinton had raped her.Today I saw some journalist saying Cains victims are white blonds.That’s what Dixiecrats used to say in the south,before the hangings.I can not believe the rascism.This is worse then a High Tech Lynching,.You know,we used to have a 4th estate.Now we have a 5th column.There was a day when real rascist injustice, offended the left.Now there’snot a peep, from you utter hypocrites.Of course 90% of journalists are Democrat,so that may explain it.Still,this is a dark day in America

    • OffTopic

      Off topic

    • IfTheNameFits

      There’s Edgar pointing out his paranoid delusional conspiracies and comparing politics to the lynchings in the south. 

      Don’t worry Edgar, high tech lynchings don’t last.

      But, your new name Edgar might.

    • Anonymous

      How far into the gutter are you going to go with this.
      You seem to get off on your act. A ight wing zealot in all his nasty glory, spouting forth inane intolerance. All with bad sentence structure to boot.

    • ulTRAX

      Lost you on the first line. I thought you claimed your thought process was so clear and concise you could compress 30 lines into one sentence! Oh well, you’re obviously lost in your own babble.

  • Gregg

    I appreciate On Point putting up (slipped it in) the video of Holder’s testimonony on “Fast and Furious”.

    • Zero

      Bunch of libs ‘slipping’ in important news items….

      • Gregg

        I have no idea what the video relates to regarding Ohio.

  • Gregg

    The debate was fun. Perry is a caricature and toast. Romney, steady as she goes. Newt’s still the man. Bachman… who? Huntsman..eh. Santorum..if only. Ron Paul for Secretary of Treasury. But Cain! How ’bout him? He’s a star! 

    • Modavations

      Gen.G,I missed it, but will bet that Newt won.I heard the crowds kept throwing stuff at the commentaors,every time they tried to take one of their rascist shots at Cain.

      • IfTheNameFits

        There’s Edgar. Again making another asinine comment. He’s just full of them ain’t he?

      • Zero

        How come conservatives, all of the sudden, are so quick to play the race card?  I thought you guys hate that.

        I guess in republican world, racism only exists when fair and honest questioning is directed at a black conservative….

    • OffTopic

      Off topic

  • Modavations

    A few years ago the Canadian dollar-Us dollar was 1.20 in the US favor.Now it has completely turned around.Why you ask?Because Pres.Martin is Laissez Faire and Pres.Obama is Socialist.These are darkest of days.

    • OffTopic

      Off topic

    • OffTopic

      Off topic

    • IfTheNameFits

      There’s Edgar, making asanine comments as usual.

    • Anonymous

      The expert on magic realism.

  • EdgarInTheHouse

    Noticed Modavations, et al., didn’t make any comments on the J. Edgar Hoover side of the program, today. 

    Strange, since with all of Modivations comments here, he seems to portray himself with the very same non-redeemable qualities that made  J. Edgar Hoover infamous.

    Maybe, Modavations just couldn’t bring himself to comment on his idol – J. Edgar Hoover.

    Let’s start refering to Modavations as “Edgar”.

    If the name fits… let’s make him wear it.

    • Gregg

      I’ve never seen the perfessor even mention J.Edgar Hoover, how do you make such a leap? That’s up there with ulTRAX logic. 

      • Anonymous

        Professor is the word you are looking for methinks.

      • ulTRAX

        Nuttin’ wrong with my logic small fry. But there sure is with yours. I again demolished your claim Newt was responsible for the Clinton Surplus in the Super Committee forum… and all you could so was pretend it didn’t matter.

        Wake me up Greg when you have something intelligent to say.  

  • Bin

    On the face of it, the main provisions of the bill such as performance reviews of public employees…etc make sense. After all, they are not for-profit employees, but public servants, paid by you and me. So, on the face of it, this bill would have been good for the state.

    However, behind the face of it, is the decades-old corporate-sponsored maneuvers to undermine unions and worker rights, and turn the 99% of us into utter peons. Luckily, the voters saw who and what was really behind the bill and voted it down.

    Once again, yeah or nay, corporations poison everything they touch.

  • GretchenMo

    Ohio, you’re toast.  Here come the higher taxes! 

    • IfTheNameFits

      Edgar called.
       
      He said he misses you.
       
      He also wants you to know, if Ohio needs it, he’d be willing to supply the butter for their toast.

      Edgar is also looking forward to the higher and harder taxes.
        

ONPOINT
TODAY
Jul 30, 2014
Smoke and fire from the explosion of an Israeli strike rises over Gaza City, Tuesday, July 29, 2014. Israel escalated its military campaign against Hamas on Tuesday, striking symbols of the group's control in Gaza and firing tank shells that shut down the strip's only power plant in the heaviest bombardment in the fighting so far. (AP)

Social media is changing how the world sees and talks about Israel and Gaza, Israelis and Palestinians. We’ll look at the impact.

Jul 30, 2014
Janitta Swain, Writer/Exec. Producer/Co-Director Dinesh D'Souza, John Koopman, Caroline Granger and Don Taylor seen at the World Premiere of 'America: Imagine The World Without Her' at Regal Cinemas LA Live on Monday, June 30, 2014, in Los Angeles, CA. (AP)

Conservative firebrand Dinesh D’Souza says he wants an America without apologies. He’s also facing jail time. We’ll hear him out.

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On Point Blog
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