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Tuesday, November 8, 2011 at 10:00 AM EDT
Is GPS Tracking An ‘Unreasonable Search?’

GPS tracking, the government, and you. The Supreme Court looks at whether tracking your every move equals “unreasonable search.”

GIOVE-A, part of the satellite navigation system Galileo. (AP)

GIOVE-A, part of the satellite navigation system Galileo. (AP)

A big case before the Supreme Court today on privacy and technology. GPS tracking, and how casually the government can keep an eye on your every move. The case in question bagged a big drug dealer. But without a search warrant or probable cause when Antoine Jones was tracked everywhere he went by satellite.

Law enforcement says “give us the tools.” Privacy advocates say in the age of tech that can track you every twitch, the room for abuse here is huge.

This hour On Point: the Supreme Court looks at whether tracking you all over, all the time, equals “unreasonable search.”

-Tom Ashbrook

Guests

Daniel Solove, Professor of Privacy and Technology Law at George Washington University Law School. Author of: “Nothing to Hide: The False Tradeoff between Privacy and Security.”

Maggie Fox, Managing editor for Technology at The National Journal.

Maggie Reardon, senior writer for C-NET.

Clifford Fishman, professor at the Columbus School of Law, Catholic University.

From Tom’s Reading List

The Los Angeles Times “Sunset Strip bookie Charlie Katz suspected the feds had bugged his apartment, so he would amble over to a pay phone outside where Carney’s hot dog joint now stands to call in his bets to Boston and Miami.”

Reuters “The Supreme Court for the first time will hear arguments on Tuesday on whether police need a warrant to track a suspect’s vehicle with a GPS device, another clash between new surveillance technology and basic privacy rights.”

Wall Street Journal “In a case that questions the Constitution’s meaning in light of modern surveillance technology, the Supreme Court will consider Tuesday whether police need a warrant before secretly attaching a GPS tracking device to a suspect’s car.”

You can find the full text of the Fourth Ammendment to the U.S. constitution here.

 
  • Josh

    In my eyes, it’s clearly unconstitutional–search and seizure and papers and all that–but the government and internet companies violate those rights continuously, and most of our constitutional rights have been eroded, or swept away in the past thirty years, and most profoundly under corporate controlled administration of junior Bush and Obama.

    However,looking to the constitution, a brown document, is not always the answer–it is a living contract that must be updated as the times demand–so nine judges cant simply sit in contempt over our rights–a convention must be held–and our rights must be expanded–instead of erased or manipulated.  “Tracking” should be added to the Big No-No’s of the Constitution.  Furthermore, if corporations can easily amend the constitution at will, to empower themselves, and disenfranchise ‘actual’ humans–actual citizens–than the people should be able to engage directly.  We have the means–we have the Web, we have the technology.  Bills, laws, and the electoral process need to be in the hands of the people–not representatives (corporate companions)–we are not children.  The process needs to shift to the Internet–with official national holidays on voting days–block parties–festivals in the park–no work!  Let the people decide.  In these times, democracy is defined by corporations with all the power and all the rights–ironically.  It doesn’t have to be that way.  Our ‘representatives’ should be called ‘comfort women’.  Prostitution is illegal. 

    • Terry Tree Tree

      You’re ignoring the fact that the web is at the mercy of the corporations!!  Those SUPER-CITIZENS, which are probably foreign corporations , have FAR More power than can be rationalized!!  This, due to five SENILE, or CORRUPT excuses for human beings, wearing black robes!   If they weren’t BOUGHT,  they should retire to a real prison, for impersonating an ‘impartial’ judge!

  • Terry Tree Tree

    Other than to facilitate their own crime, what reason could exist, to track law-abiding citizens??
        Your cell phone has had GPS tracking of you capability for over ten years.  Yet, YOU have to pay extra to utilize the GPS function of the phone that you pay for!!

    • Hidan

      It was revealed this weekend that the android phone anonymously tracks it’s users without their knowledge. The claim is to make it easier for people to deal with traffic. But it also tracks the amount of time a person is at such a area as well.

      I bet the cops would love to do that too if they could.

      • Abob

        They can, and have been able to locate anyone on a cell phone to within several meters for years, and have made loads of arrests because they used this tech.

  • Terry Tree Tree

    If only half of the 1300 ‘Security Agencies’, wind up tracking part of the others, how many of the 85,000 ‘Security Agents’ would that tie up?  To what avail?
        How can we trust Contractor Security Agents, cleared by Contractor Security Agents, cleared by Contractor Security Agents, cleared by Contractor Security Agents? 

    • Margbi

      How many Contract Security Agents does it take to screw in a light bulb? Apparently, two. One to do the actual screwing and one to observe and record the first one’s action.

  • Hidan

    “Is GPS Tracking An “Unreasonable Search”?”

    Yes. Just another step towards a police state. While laws are getting tighter esp. in Ma. recording police abuse. The same officers who don’t want to be recorded for obvious reasons are being allow violate the law of citizens often times without redress. This GPS tracking is just another violation.

  • Hidan

    Say I see a officer/ undercover cop placing this GPS tracking device on someones car and I come over and ask what the cop is doing and if such is legal? But because i’m alone I voice record the cops conversation to protect myself. The cop than lies about what he’s doing and is in fact actually breaking the law and clearly illegal than arrest me for public disturbance or interfering with a police investigation or some other triumphed up charge. If I lived in Ma. I could face an additional 5 years in prison just for recording the officer even know I record the officer breaking the law.

    • Abob

      They don’t need to put a tracker on your car they just need you to carry a cell phone — silly boy.  Join the drones, own a cell phone, and pay eighty dollars a month to be a transparent muppet.

  • VelvetHandcuffs

    Wake me up when someone mentions the NSA.

  • Abob

    Strangely, I find I have a compulsion to look up the short skirts of women who’s political opinions and lack of grey matter, I despise.  It has to be subliminal conditioning by FOX.  The company that established itself in journalism by showing naked titties on page three of their British rag to stimulate sales.

  • cory.

    I wonder if anyone will use the argument that you have nothing to fear if you aren’t doing anything wrong.

    • http://www.richardsnotes.org Richard

      What would you say to the person who made that argument? I think it’s a reasonable argument although I know enough not to make it in this comment thread because people will jump all over it as ignorant.

      By the way, I have location services turned on on many of my iPhone apps that use it and it’s quite useful for me. I’ve now used location services for over three years. What do you think I have to fear?

      • Anonymous

        Right, cuz American law enforcement and government officials have never abused their power.  In fact, why have any oversight or limitations on police powers at all?  Just prevents them from getting at the bad guys.  Who needs some judge second guessing our good ol’ boys in blue?

        • Hidan

          To add to your comments.

          We all know that if a officer saw another officer breaking the law they would report it to their Superior(what wall of blue?). Just look at NY with stop and search….oopps they abused it. how about the wire taping law where citizen record police breaking the law in Ma?……ooops they abused it. Maybe New Orleans should be the example of how lack of oversight is a good thing?….ooops the department covered up the shootings of innocent blacks.

          It’s dislusional to believe by giving police even more powers is going to be a good thing. I guess living in a bubble does that to some.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      I’ll challenge that idea.  The principle being expressed there is that it’s the government’s right to monitor me whenever it wants.  But I don’t belong to my government.

  • Abob
  • Not an Alex Jones fan
  • Yar

    This case is about the use of a wire tap, the ‘wire’ was the device, the tap was location data. Unless they did it under the Patriot act I don’t understand what authority they used.
    What special powers do the police have outside of warrants or the power of arrest that any citizen doesn’t have?  If a policeman can put a device on a car without a warrant, what would stop any person from doing the same thing?
    It seems like the police just put a cell phone on the suspect’s car, at least the device they used had cell phone technology in it.
    Where does it end? Could anyone put any device on any vehicle? Or if allowed by the supreme court, will this extended to tracking by cell phone, could your cell company  sell your tracking data?  What if a company or police decide to remotely turn on the mic on your cell phone, can they listen to the sounds near your phone at any time?

  • Modavations

    Speaking of Big Brother,who is this guy who keeps popping up on T.V., saying don’t panic when we shut down the T.V.”s.He keeps saying it’s a test,don’t panic and warn your friends.Are they going to tamper with ithe internet?I smell a rat

    • Anonymous

      It is a test of the national emergency system. Are you really that out to lunch or what? 

      • Modavations

        Why do they say don’t panic,tell your friends?.I’ve never seen anything like this.I’m used to the insignia coming on the screen,followed by ahhhhhh,ahhhhh,ahhh,for 30 secondsThere is a rumor they will shut down the internet.For once,mon frere,I’m being serious.I smell a rat

    • nj

      Delusional about his imagined wit, and vainly attempting to be taken seriously, Moda-troll keeps posting the same illiterate inanity over and over.

      • Anonymous

        A legion in his own mind.

  • Adks12020

    “Is GPS Tracking An Unreasonable Search”? – YES

    If it comes to the point that anyone at any time can legally have a gps tracker attached to his/her car without their knowledge and with no warrant then we can honestly call this country a police state.

    It’s bad enough that anyone using a cell phone, debit/credit card or the internet is tracked.  Let not add it to every aspect of our lives.

    On a simialr note….do police need a warrant to tap into something like OnStar to locate someone?  A co worker’s son had a car stolen from his driveway and that is how they found them.  Obviously in that case a crime was committed but could cops do that any time they want legally?  Just curious

    • guest

      In the case of a stolen car, the car owner’s permission to track it until such time as it’s found is sufficient.

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        There’s a reason that I don’t have OnStar in my vehicle.

        • TFRX

          But did it come with a nav system? What percentage of new cars do?

          If my great aunt buys a car with one, and I’m not there to put the (proverbial) bug in her ear about privacy, and she wants to, oh, let’s say, run her moonshine without being trackable by Sheriff Buford, what is the default status of one of these devices?

          (Personally, my preternatural sense of direction has kept me from considering any vehicle with a nav system.)

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            No, my vehicle doesn’t have a navigation system.  That is to say, I know how to read a map and to follow road signs.

  • Anonymous

    E.T. leave cell phone at home!

    How does the  Family Moral Values Law Enforcement DeRegulation party reconcile their liberatarian positions with their law an order positions? 

    • guest

      Same way they reconcile their anti-gay-marriage and follow-every-pregnancy-to-a-government-approved-conclusion positions with their “small government” mantra. They stick their heads in the sand and pretend it’s still 1955.

  • Stephenmangion

    A no-brainer, for me:   Of course it is an unreasonable activity by the government.

    What is not obvious will be how Kagan and Sotomeyer position
    themselves.  (I do not think of theme as progressive justices . . . )

  • ipswichma

    Does a citizen reasonably believe that in their own private car, their movements are being tracked… do they expect that their movements are free and private? I would say yes… therefore, using GPS for tracking a suspect in general should need a search warrant.

    • Yar

      Yes, all you have to do is click traffic on Google maps.
      That is not the standard, just because we give information away that does not give the government the right to take it.  That EZpass can track your movement as well.  RFD tags are everywhere, maybe even in your shoes, it is difficult not to leave a digital trail anywhere you go in public. We require a warrant to avoid abuse of power.

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        Yet another reason not to live in a place with toll roads.

    • Ellen Dibble

      Abusive spouse tracks wife, accuses her of parking too near so-and-so, or for too long, and she ends up in court explaining she stopped there to re-apply makeup…  Does a spouse need a search warrant to keep tabs on the partner?

  • Ted

    every, not ever

  • Anonymous

    Can citizens track law enforcement officials — would that be okay?  A good law has to be equally applied to all people.

    It doesn’t matter that the device is on the outside of the vehicle — that is a red herring.

    Neil

    • guest

      GPS trackers on every police vehicle or even gunbelt, readable with an app that works on in-car nav systems as well as smartphones would be a Godsend in certain circumstances (say, for a woman afraid of attack to be able to run toward the nearest beat cop), well worth the massive hole it would no doubt blow in traffic-fine income.

  • Modavations

    I just saw the dude again.He is saying that we should not be disturbed whenthe T.V.goes off .Are they about to shut down the internet?Talk about Big Brother.This guy’s saying we should tell our friends not to panic.I smell trouble kids.Am I the only one who’s seen this PSA?

    • TFRX

      On this board, you’re the only person who sees a lot of things.

    • Brett

      Mo-D,
      It sounds like you need a Mo-D-Vacation! …Well, at least cut back on the ganja until after dinner, anyway! But don’t you worry, those demons talking to you about the end of the world as we know it are just letting you know that the entire emergency broadcasting system will be thoroughly tested…sometimes a banana is just a banana! So, go drink a beer, have something to eat, and remember, you’ve just ingested a powerful hallucinogen and will be fine after a nap! 

      • Modavations

        Brother B.,I do indeed think it’s time for a burn break..Have you seen the PSA I’m talking about

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    How can a private citizen challenge what the government says with regard to the satellite’s reports?  Will my lawyer have access to the software, the sensors designs, and the logs?  This strikes me as yet another example of the government saying, “Trust us.”

    • Modavations

      Dude,don’t chirp.You’ll get audited

  • Modavations

    Did you guys see that great movie “the lives of others”about East Germany.That’s what the Ultrax’s of the world want.An Orwellian horror show.

    • Anonymous

      Get a life.

  • Ellen Dibble

    I assume the Supreme Court is also considering those of us who go around on non-gaseous vehicles, to wit, bicycles.  Not that we go anywhere interesting, but I’ve noticed plenty of drug dealers who use this mode of transportation.  A bike is like a tattoo; it marks you as a dealer.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Note that the police got a warrant, but they let it expire.  Why couldn’t they just operate while the warrant was in effect?  If it’s possible to get a warrant to track someone, then that’s what the government must do.

  • Anonymous

    This is nothing short of illegal search and seizure in my view.
    The should have a warrant. If the police botch a case due to illegal wiretaps or a GPS device it’s their fault.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    My next car will be an old clunker with no electronic gadgetry, and I’ll install a jammer.

  • Drew You Too

    Military Commissions Act, Patriot Act, Random Checkpoints, Helicopter Surveillance… We already live in a Police State. What’s reasonable? None of the above.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Which party does Obama belong to?  Oh, yes, the Democans.  Of course, the Republicrats want the same thing.

    • Modavations

      Friggin juvenile.Ronnie Rayguns.Oh please

  • Yar

    Does off mean off?
    Does turning off your cell phone mean it is off?  Maybe, but the software could easily be rewritten to keep it on and only turn off the call reception and screen.  Should the police or FBI need a warrant to edit your cell phone’s software?  I would say yes. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1816544 Dan Trindade

    What’s next? Pre-Crime that’s what. Before you know it you’ll be convicted of crimes you haven’t even committed yet.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      We’re already there.  Have you heard about the terrorist watch list?

      • Modavations

        I’m told that the minute you hit the street in London,you’re on Candid Camera.You don’t think those “speed check” cameras, we have all over the U.S,.are exclusively for traffic contrl.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    No privacy in public–well, that means that the police may follow me around.  That does not mean that they are allowed to insert something on my vehicle.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Since when does the government pay attention to the plain language of the Constitution?

  • wauch

    Is the pope catholic?

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Does an elephant relieve itself on the people?  Does a donkey do the same?

  • Roy Mac

    The LinkedIn founder says, “Privacy and confidentiality are ‘old people’ issues.”  So we should just get over it and assume that everybody is going to be entitled to know everything about everyone else?

    • Anonymous

      That kind of mindset is very, very dangerous and this man needs to be told how wrong he is. I’m now thinking I should cancel my LinkedIn account. I don’t use it anyway. 

      • Modavations

        He has the right, in a free society ,to speak his piece.Put away your Ball Peen Hammer.What is your animous to “difference of opinion”

  • Modavations

    You guys are a hoot.The Left is the Orwellian Police state.George O said the totalitarians bind us through “Prolspeak”(?).The current iteration is “Political Correctness”.I call it intellectual fascism.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Because, naturally, a right-wing government would never do something like that. . .

    • Anonymous

      You really do live in the mind of an 8 year old. Sad, so sad.

      • Modavations

        Has anyone ever seen Jeffe and Bernie Sanders in the same room.

        • Anonymous

          Thanks for the compliment. I’m not as smart or good as Bernie.
          He is one of my hero’s however.

          • Modavations

            So is Hitler,how pathetic

  • Sharron, Leeds, Ma

    I believe warrants to apply a covert gps on a car should adhere to specific guide-lines/time-lines. A car is personal property, not a public place. If this country is to remain recognizable, Big Brother needs appropriate checks and bounds.

  • Ellen Dibble

    Limitation is different where we have cookie-type information gathering.  We let corporations track our moseying around the internet, without a whole lot of say so, not from me, not from you, not from a billion-billion judges that it would take to approve each cookie grab.
         In an age of the kind of mass-destruction tools — the germ in a cloud of puff — isn’t there a need to be able to zero in, in ways only a defensive statistical weapon like a computer can do?  Feed it all the comings and goings near mailbox Y on dates A, B, and C, and you might have your villain before a quarter million people die an agonizing death.

  • Modavations

    Police States
    !.Stalin(20million dead)
    2.Mao(40 million dead)
    3.Hitler(2 million dead)
    4.Pol Pot(3 million offed.one third of the population)
    lesser devils,Honecker,Hoxha,Cuceascu(?),Tito,Fidel,Che,Hugo…..
    Common denominator.Socialist-Communists
    Just what would you say the body count is on the right?

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Look, dictators like that are off the continuum of left and right.  Whatever terms they use as excuses for their grab of power, they are totalitarians.

      • Modavations

        They all start as Lefties.There is obviously, a nascent virus in the philosophy

        • Anonymous

          Hitler was never a lefty. He hated communist and socialist.
          I’m not sure why I’m bothering to even give you the time of day as you are clearly very misinformed about the world in which we live and Western history. However I do feel it is necessary to debunk the all the crap you post here. At least for people who read this junk.

          You seem to think that being on the left is some kind of crime. My guess is you would be right at home in the Argentine junta of the late 70′s and 80′s.  

          • Modavations

            i WAS IN bERLIN IN sEPT..i AKED EVERYONE i COULD.sERIOUSLY,DUDE,EVERYONE SAID HE WAS A SOCIALIST AND laughed at the question.The fire at the Reichstag(?) was started by Danish Communists.There was a power struggle,between Hitler’s gang and the Danish Commies.That’s your animous.Please explain why he named the party National Workers Socialist Party

    • Anonymous

      Once again, Hitler was on the right and your body count for him was as inaccurate as the rest of your repetitive and asinine claims about him. 

      • Modavations

        National Workers Socialist Party-NAZI
        You guys crack me up.You quibble over Hitler,but  you have no problem with the rest of the Leftist Tyrants.Believe me ,Hitler was a socialist and his pal, Il Duce,started as the editor of the socialist rag,Avanti,in Trento.

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

          They were from the right, but both of them went off the scale.

          • Modavations

            Those guys were geniuses.All the talk of National Workers Socialist Parties,and “people’s republics”, of this and that.Friggin geniuses

          • Modavations

            Soviet Socialist Republic.Those righties are geniuses, throwing us off track, with those names

    • Anonymous

      Meh…

      • Modavations

        I checked the abridged version o Leftist Gobble de gook.Again, nada

    • PublicEnemy1

      Yes and let us all give the People’s Republic of Vietnam the credit they deserve for invading Cambodia and stopping the mass murder that was taking place there while the rest of the world sat on their hands.

      • Modavations

        another friggin police state.I’ve never been to Vietnam,but I’ve crossed the Thai border ,into Cambodia,to renew visas.Hookers,casinos,soldiers and undercover guys who follow you around

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    This is a “very clear line”?  Of course it is.  The clear line is that governments love more power.  It’s the job of every generation to pull power back to the people.

  • Soren
  • Michiganjf

    Think about a home invasion and murder case…

    What if these kinds of tracking records could show the suspect(s) followed the victim around the city and then home?

    I don’t know… I’d sure appreciate the guilty verdict after this aided the jury in such a murder case.

    Tough call.

  • Catherine

    If the police were allowed unbridled access to GPS tracking without a warrant, what is stopping this from eventually becoming public domain? What is to stop individuals from tracking other individuals legally with GPS if law enforcement does not even need a warrant? This could open up many avenues that could be dangerous.

  • Yar

    If it is okay for the police without a warrant, then is it okay for anyone to do?

    • Anonymous

      The constitutional limitations on the state don’t apply to individuals, so the answer is probably yes.  Suspicious spouses have been spying on their mates, using a variety of tools, forever.

  • Talknationradio

    What happens if the alleged ‘suspect’ happens to drive past a location known to be occupied by criminals? Does that count as ‘evidence’? What if the alleged ‘suspect’ parks near the vehicle of another suspect, can the state tie them to the occupants of that vehicle? Where is the line drawn? If police need that one element in order to try to get a conviction it seems logical that coincidence could matter. There is of course the opening of the door to police orchestration of such a coincidence, and we have seen such things happen throughout our history. I’ll have to view the new movie about J. Edgar Hoover to get more ideas on where the state could go wrong if the courts grant this GPS option… But the same question too for coincidentally driving past someone on the street whose criminal activity might be viewed as ‘evidence’ of a connection to the alleged ‘suspect’. There appears to be a high potential for wrongful arrest and detention and one could study recent examples of innocent people who were tear gassed, detained and charged, after merely walking in close proximity to a protest. 

  • Mike Davies

    The trouble is that the cops are tracking a GPS device and not a person. Without “eyes on” id by the cops, the “person of interest” could plant his GPS in Aunt Hattie’s big handbag and have the cops track her while he does his business with a “burner” phone. You need eyes on to know who’s who. The best guide to sound anti-terrorist and anti-crime practice is the Bill of Rights.

    Mike, Omaha

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    What’s so hard about getting a warrant?  The police do that all the time.  That’s not too much of a burden for them, nor will it make them fall behind in the technological arms race.

    • Ellen Dibble

      Warrants — sometimes you want to be preemptive.  You want to be able to identify patterns of interaction or language/seeking-behavior exactly so as to be able to pounce when the time is ripe.  For instance, when the van full of explosives is on its way to Times Square.  Versus after the fact.
            More in a moment.

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        But that’s probable cause.  If the cop sees someone behaving in a way that can reasonably be interpreted as criminal, the officer has the duty to intervene.

        • Ellen Dibble

          I suppose this varies from state to state, but if the guy maintains that he was sitting in his bedroom with his dog all day, reading the Bible, who is to say otherwise?
                You have to get him to be viewed by someone who can say that is the guy who pointed a gun at me.
               Why are they suspicious in the first place?
               There are always parts of cases that are less than crystal clear.  If someone thinks the gangs will torture and kill him for putting out a clue, that someone will use the anonymous TIPS line.  Something like that.  But is a TIPS comment “reasonable suspicion”?  I could put out a TIPS against anyone whose stash of cocaine I want to have discovered, I suppose.  Call it a wild goose chase.  The cops catch everyone EXCEPT the armed robber.  And in the end, one of their confidential informants ends up flayed and quartered, under a bridge.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            I’d rather let lots of thugs go than convict one innocent person or, in this case, violate the privacy of one good citizen.

          • Modavations

            Most righteous

        • Ellen Dibble

          If the person can be interpreted as a danger to themselves or others, they can be involved.  When I had a suicidal neighbor, that particular night, they surrounded the house, but did not break in until I gave the word.  I forget exactly.  It was 3:00 AM.  I remember going to the door, a cop standing there, and asking if she was a danger to herself or others, and I nodded my head.  Next thing I know, she was being taken out on a stretcher, half dead.  How I knew?  She had been vomiting.  I had taken a sleeping pill.  I think she had called her therapist.  I wasn’t thinking she had drunk Drano, or Lysol, Pinesol — it was pinesol.  

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            Dang, no offense, but I’m glad that you don’t live near me.  What I do in the privacy of my own home is my #%^*$*@#$ business.

          • Ellen Dibble

            In this case, the daughter would have been permanently in foster care, which could have been better than the uncertainties in place.  This woman did suicides something like 23 times before the age of 35; it wasn’t supposed to be secret.

    • Ellen Dibble

      Say you’ve just had an armed robbery, and there is a witness who could ID a perpetrator.  The perpetrator, a block away, knows his rights, and though someone else in his apartment opens the door, and the police notice there is a closed door, with a vicious animal barking behind it, they know if they leave to get the warrant, they will lose the suspect.  So the police say there is such a thing as a freeze, where nobody in the building may come or go.  Essentially the entire high-rise is notified that someone is about to be brought outside to be taken nearby to be ID’d — or not.  So instead of perpetrating the freeze, which can last quite a while, and which the police say actually causes everybody else to vacate the building (I guess in advance of the freeze), they get a skilled officer to weasel the guy to come out of his own free will and accord.  But the issue of the warrant is blazingly alive.  Why not wait?

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        1.  The armed robber stands in good chance of having been shot when I drew my weapon.

        2.  Isn’t the situation that you described what is meant under probable cause?

        3.  Even if you’re exactly right, I’d rather let the guy go than be monitored by the government.

        • Ellen Dibble

          Then he commits a murder, actually, months later, while the law does its obfuscating and confusing of things.  The police have their reasons.

  • Tim

    The war on drugs has proved to be a massive failure and distraction for law enforcement.  No one is any happier or safer because this guy’s kilos were seized.  But this is the unstated threat behind the logic of allowing GPS tracking–we can get the bad guys and reduce crime.  But crime rates have gone down, and drug use is as steady as ever–although hundreds of thousand are in jail or prison for drug activity.  Please, let’s refocus our police efforts on getting the real, large scale criminals–white collar criminals.  Respect the plain and clear language of the fourth amendment!

    • Modavations

      Obama said,last week,that the war on Poverty was a failure

    • BHA in Vermont

      That is very nice, but your average cop on the beat is not exactly up to the task of investigating scamming Wall Street bankers and throwing them in jail.

      • Modavations

        Last week, Mayor Bloomberg said ,don’t point your finger at Wall St.The financial crisis was caused by CRA,Janet Reno,Fannie and Freddie.Take a bow B.Frank.Freddie just asked for another 6 billion and they want to give the “mucky mucks”thirteen million in bonus.Harry Reid(who makes me puke)said, that’s outrageous.He often says that.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    It’s the duty of the court, whatever the Constitution says, to interpret law in favor of the individual against the government.

  • Drew You Too

    Danger Will Robinson! Danger!!!

    • Not an Alex Jones fan

      That was original.  I wish I had thought of that.

  • Modavations

    Do you guys realize we’re probably being surveilled, right now.Don’t worry though,Big Brother is only looking for “righties”

    • TFRX

      You’re having an incoherent day by even your standards.

      Hey, does anyone else here want to buy Moda a complimentary “red tunic”?

      • Modavations

        I’ve got my dictionary of Leftist “gooble de gook”,but there’s no reference to “Red Tunics”

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Tom Ashbrook,

    As I wrote before, I do not belong to the government.  I don’t need an excuse for not wanting to be monitored.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

    Regardless of what is constitutional and legal,  IF THE TECHNOLOGY TO INVADE YOUR PRIVACY EXISTS,  GOVERNMENT AGENCIES WILL USE IT at their whim.

    • Drew You Too

      Sad but true. Can anyone say NSA? I knew you could…

  • Kevin

    When I attended law school over 20 years ago, I asked another student who had taken evidence what was the most important thing to know for evidence class.  She told me that the Fourth amendment no longer exists, thanks to the war on drugs and the Rehnquist court.  With the wingspan rule applying to the interior of your car and similar legal gymnastics, the Court will always stretch the limits to expand police power.  Look at the treatment of passengers in airports as another example.

    • Modavations

      The TSA are rejected Mall Cops.The real security guys, are under cover

  • Guest

    The view that “if you’re obeying the law, you have nothing to worry about” assumes that (1) all laws are just and (2) all legislators are pure of motive and intelligent. I would respectfully dispute both of those assumptions, and therefore would prefer Big Brother to stay out of my business.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Such thinking also claims that we belong to the government, that the government has the right to know what we’re doing whenever it wants to know.

  • Modavations

    Come on kids,Cain and Able had security teams.Since the age of 15,me and my pals would never say anything incriminating over the phone.Think the worst,hope for the best.

  • Erin in Iowa

    Forget government issued barcode tatoos at birth!  People are buying their own barcodes!

  • W. Graves

    So If I have a problem with a local police officer, don’t try to tell me that there won’t be SOME possibility of police abuse as some kind of retribution.  There DOES exist corruption within law enforcement and they need greater oversight, not less.

  • Modavations

    Throw away your cell phones,never use a credit card,never drive a new car,toss out you’re Easy Passes for the Ma.Turnpike.Come on kids,it’s a world of sharks.Think about all the close calls they don’t tell us about.I don’t want to know,to tell you the truth

  • Scott B, Jamestown NY

    Where will it stop? If a diabetic buys needles in bulk, or someone with a wicked cold buys whatever the law thinks is “too much” cold medicine that works (not the fake stuff that use “jacksquatacil” instead of the PHC) and some computer spits that info out?  Or some cop just decides that you need a haircut or doesn’t like your Grateful Dead sticker, and now they can track you without a warrant? 

  • Archibold

    It was a great night last night at Royal Sonasta Hotel – WBUR’s Annual Gala. Lots of nice dresses, great food, networking with Tom Ashbrook, WBUR Staff, et. al.

    Something interesting here: Outside of the Hotel, there was 9/11 Truth Movement – Protesting NPR/WBUR, in full force. What was that all about.

    Eventually, we went out and talked to them. Listened to them. What a rude awakening it was. They were damn right. There is a very serious and troubling cover-up and sort of hiding the Quest For a New Investigation.

    After those conversation, we are all for it. 9/11 Events HAVE TO BE REOPENED AND RE-INVESTIGATED. AND ONPOINT/WBUR SHOULD PLAY A LEADING ROLE.

    • Modavations

      CPR gets 400 million in tax payer money.How many poor guys go to opera,symphony,or listen to On Point.As a liberal,did you arrive in the Limosine

    • Modavations

      Go read the 10 page article, by Popular Mechanics

    • Brett

      Golly! You just inadvertently stumbled upon the Thruthers and, low and behold, your whole world changed; you woke up to the truth for the first time! Gee whizz, maybe we should all take notice! …And here I thought instead of a rude awakening, the Truthers only offered rudeness (that and a supreme lack of being on topic in comment forums)! 

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Third party knowledge?  Fine, we need laws denying corporations from gathering information on us.  No stupid opt-in or opt-out.  Just a blanket ban.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Sorry, caller, but your children are no excuse for violating my privacy.  You take care of your own children.

    • Drew You Too

      In addition I would like to add that if you properly educated your children and instilled in them a respect for you as a parent they wouldn’t consider purchasing dangerous narcotics. Personal Responsibilty.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Caller Megan,

    Again, if you live within the law, you are safe?  Do you realize that if this is allowed, the law will become so onerous that no one can live within the law?

    When it comes to freezing to death, that’s a better option than living in a police state.  Give me liberty or give me death.  (And if you don’t give me the first, expect some of the second for yourself.)

  • Anonymous

    Equal protection is beginning to be more important seems like more and more it’s who your friends are…Seems like everybody is breaking the law but there is a lot of prejudice in application.

  • BHA in Vermont

    Do we know why the police did not use the warrant while it was in effect? Was there something that kept them from attaching the device or did they just drag their feet?
    Why did they not renew the warrant? Did they try and were denied?

  • guy

    The issue is bigger than just government, congressional review is needed…
    I am surprised no one is mentioning the current advertisement TV ampaign by a major auto insurance company, where they will lower your car insurance rate if you agree to a tracker on your car demonstrating your good driving behavior.   This is currently legal because you have to agree todo it (its consensual)  however if thsi is successful how long will it be before all of us have to agree to a full time insurance tracker on our car is we want lower rates???

  • Ecoons6

    Good morning, ladies and gentlemen,

    I think that I heard Professor Solove recommend Congressional hearings to build a “knowledge base” on the issue of privacy in a high-tech age, a base deeper than that accessible to the Supreme Court.

    There is at least one thing that this Court, and many other duly constituted judges, can do better per their own knowledge than can most possible their consultants: look at potential conflicts between the proposed practice and existing law.  (in this case, law-enforcement’s attaching a GPS tracking device to a suspect’s car without a warrant).

    We have assumed that “existing law” on the subject is restricted to the Fourth Amendment. I suggest that the First is also at issue, and that those conflicts are even more difficult to resolve than any with the Fourth. If the phone-carrying citizenry had reason to fear ubitquitous tracking, by GPS tracking or other like surveillance, we would begin to live “with eyes in the back of our heads,” so to speak. The resulting cautions would enter the stream of thought so early in its formation that these cautions would destroy freedom of speech as well as any freedoms that depend on the Fourth Amendment. Full freedom of thought, I would argue, depends on the expectation of a certain “obscurity in public” that would end with ubiquitous GPS tracking or the legality thereof. The strongest argument against this propostion may well turn on the First Amendment, not the Fourth. This SUpreme Court lately has interpreted the First Amendment very broadly indeed.

  • Robin

    the caller just said “stay within the law” and you’ll be fine.  but “the law” is *sooooo* complex these days, that it’s not just a matter of common-sense: it’s almost impossible to know what laws you might be violating even if you think you’re behaving in a socially-responsible and upright fashion.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

    I hate people WHO DISPLAY their GPS on windshield even though they don’t need it. they think it can make their cars go faster or something like that. I over take a girl a GPS on Mass Pike and she got mad at me because she was so slow on the fast lane.

    The best factory NAV system I ever had was on a 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer Rockford Fosgate system. the screen hides in the dash when I don’t need the GPS or the DVD system. AWESOME! it was touch screen too.

  • Modavations

    Why do you think the “right to bear arms”,is the second amendment.The founding fathers knew aboutPolice States.

    • Anonymous

      Actually the right to bare arms was about militias and how to defend communities from the British military. It was not about you arming yourself to the hilt and having a shoot out with the police because of some perceived threat.  

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        No, the militia was the excuse for having the amendment, but the operative part is about the people.

      • PublicEnemy1

        You are wrong, that is exactly what it was about.  To protect us from the power of government.

        • Anonymous

          Not true. I suggest you do some reading on the subject.
          I also suggest you research the segregation era. People tried this tact in the South. The Feds came down on them like a ton of bricks.
          Try starting an armed resistance to your local government and see what happens, let alone the federal government.

          • Modavations

            Those damn Dixiecrats.Give ‘em hell Jeffe

          • Anonymous

            meh.

          • Modavations

            The dictionary of Leftist Gobble de Gook, makes no reference to MEH

      • PublicEnemy1

        Spoken like a person who knows nothing about firearms and the difference between the weaponry that the gov and police have, and what is legal and available for civilian citizens to own. dupe

        • Modavations

          He’s an expert in Birkenstocks

        • Anonymous

          I own a gun by the way.

          • Anonymous

            What about the Declaration of Independence : Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from
            the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government
            becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to
            alter or to abolish it.

      • PublicEnemy1

        The British were the police, or did that not enter into your thought process.

        • Anonymous

          I would answer you but your comments show how you are more interested in being a jerk than anything else.

      • PublicEnemy1

        I suspect that the heros on the Police force would think twice about beating people in wheel chairs and such at the OWS (occupy America) if all the demonstrators were armed.

      • Modavations

        Poppycock.The intent, is to allow the peeps to ward of the lEFTIST pUTSCH.

  • Jeff

    One issue that always gets overlooked–plea bargains.

    Yes, you didn’t break the law, but if they accuse you of something you can’t easily disprove and then offer a lesser sentence, a lot of folks will take the deal.  And since the criminal justice system is judged by the rate of successful prosecutions, a ready stream of surveillance data would seem a terrible temptation…

    • PublicEnemy1

      Exactly, there are millions of people in the US who have been coerced into pleading guilty to an offense they did not commit.  And then they wonder why people hate the police and are alienated from society. Place yourself in this situation.  You are twenty years old, you are working a summer job driving a truck and you return to the plant to find that you are arrested for sale and possession of heroin.  You have never seen any heroin in you life. Living in a small PA town you don’t even know anyone who has ever used heroin. But during the last semester at school an older student approached you and a few others at the schools oncampus snack cafe with a book describing how to produce drugs, and you looked at it and handed it back to him. After he didn’t get any takers on wanting to borrow his directions, he moves on to another group. One of the local kids at the table says, that was Jim Moynihan, his father is chief of police in Allentown, he is a nark.
      Then it turns out that this jerk charged dozens of students with sale and possession of drugs, the other person I knew on his list was also innocent and pleaded guilty. You show up at the kangaroo court in Reading Pa. and they offer you a choice between the possibility of ten plus years in prison (and it is an election year and your lawyer tells you about the harsh sentencing climate because of it. At trial the scumbag Moynihan doesn’t show up, but is it thrown out, nope it is rescheduled. The next time you show up they offer you a plea bargain to either plea guilty to a lesser offense, (sale and possession of marijiuana, which he also charged me with, and was also a lie) and two weeks in the county jail, or the possibility of doing ten or more years if found guilty.  Remember you a twenty, your family is not wealthy and it could loose everything in lawyer fees. You take the plea, but when you show up for sentencing it is a different judge and he rejects the plea bargain, now the scumbag showed up with his rat faced state narc handler and they have the evidence of the drugs and are ready to go. This time you are offered a bargain of 6 to 36 months and you have been coerced into pleading guilty to an offense you didn’t commit, a felony.  Now finally, you actually do meet some people who have a familiarity with heroin, in prison.
      What is the scumbag James Moynihan’s come-upance for utalizing lies and deceit to further his police career by destroying the lives of innocent students?  Well today he is the much esteemed chief of police in Port Orange FL, and a big shot in the international police coordination, a highly payed, highly honored, highly cushy position.
      If you are suffering under the illusion that they police are there to protect you, you are an idiot.  In my sixty odd years I have never seen a cop take the stand and not outright lie.
      Plus if the police were actually on your side and honest why are the people who put our economy in the dumper not even charged with any offense? huh?

  • Mdforti

    so, I don’t have to pay the speeding ticket I got from a camera because there wasn’t a police officer there to administer it?

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      That ought to be the way things are, but alas, the machine can accuse you, and the accusation is a conviction.

    • Yes3

      Your are confusing a tax system (traffic court) with a real court.

  • Drew You Too

    Privacy has already been bled away in favor of a false sense of security. The most tragic thing is that security is an illusion. Insert Ben Franklin quote here.

  • Scott B, Jamestown NY

    The cops can read, they knew the warrant was expired. They had enough reason and cause that any judge would have issued another warrant. You snooze, you loose. I don’t want that drug dealer on the street, but I want those that uphold the law to follow the law.

    If I were the lawyers arguing the need for privacy I’d have attached a GPS unit to each of the Justice’s cars and printed out their comings and going out on giant poster boards for all to see. Then lets see how the court feels about warrant-less tracking.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

    Funny you don’t need a GPS to be track by police or your parents. Making a call on your smart or cells phones you can be track.

  • Sean Covert

    I was wondering if people were aware of a company called Inteliuts. Is soul purpose is to collect all personal information available for all companies collection it. It is a data base of all unregulated information collected. For what purpose is this information being collected? How is this legal? However, they do let you opt out of this voluntary surveillance  worse than a gps locator. You simply ask to be mailed an opt out form, then provide proof of your identity with two or more forms of identification and to have the form notorized. then simply mail it in for review as to weather your  request will be granted.
    this should be your real story 

  • Bri

    Analogy:

    DNA science is so intricate & evolved, that even I, as a scientist in another field (geology), cannot imagine to read a current DNA research paper & understand it> If the law evolves the same way, will we still not be able to claim ignorance? 

    - my thought after the professor caller-in said we who don’t know the intricacies of past 4th Amend. interpretations can’t intelligently comment on today’s decision-making.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Charles-Flaherty/100000447249554 Charles Flaherty

    The problem with a surveillance society doesn’t stem from,
    “I’m not doing anything wrong so why should I care if anyone is watching
    me.” When we allow our government or our corporations to oversee every
    aspect of our lives, foibles included, we leave our entire society open to
    attacks by whomever is in power at the moment to find a reason to imprison and
    or silence us if we espouse a position that is counter to their agenda regardless
    of their goals.

     

    Whether or not you feel you are living and upright life; an
    entity that can peruse your existence on nearly a 24/7 basis can present a case
    that can land you in Guantánamo even if you’re a Mennonite that never left the
    farm.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

    PRIVACY. This topic is a Joke. First you can always be hear by the government when you use your cell phones. if they want to spy on you.
    even text can be track or read by phone companies or feds

    There is no such thing has privacy anymore Because of the “Patriot Act”

    • Someone

      The “Patriot Act” effectively abolishes the Constitution.  Even if people aren’t being dragged off in the middle of the night to secret prisons, without due process, and the right to council… yet.  Or are they?

      That act establishes, however, the following rule: “Any person that breaks any law of the United States is deemed a domestic terrorist.”  So under this wording, jay-walking can lead to Guantanimo if the jaywalking pisses off the right cop.

      http://www.rense.com/general58/diff.htm
      Whats the difference between Bush’s Patriot Act and Hitlers Enabling Act?  Answer… none.

      • Modavations

        You could vote Bush out.Actually you could vote Hitler out until they burned the Reichstag.Do you think the Patriot Act had anything to do with 9/11.During the two years the Democrats had both houses,they never even brought repeal up for a vote.Didn’t Pres.Obama promise to close Gitmo,toute de suite?

        • PublicEnemy1

          If one person tells you, you are an idiot it’s one thing, but when dozens of people tell you it over months, I think you may have a reason to suspect that you have been deluding yourself about the validity of your statements.

          • Modavations

            When you have someone punching holes in your world view, you have animous.If we were in one of your People’s paradises,you’d smash my skull with a Ball Peen Hammer.I’m at war with you guys,till I convert you.Many times I’ve offered my hand in friendship and you guys spit in it.Look at guys like Jeffe and Ultrax and NJ.They insult strangers,right off the bat.Ill mannered name calling and snarkisms.The left is intolerant and parochial.

  • Four Elements

    Someone else must care about this: “your EVER move”??!!
    Please.

  • notafeminista

    Seems like since there are alternatives to tracking a presumed suspect this would not be reasonable.    Officer sticks GPS on Car A and suspect switches to Car B (for whatever reason)  how many GPS do they go through for one case?

  • the shadow knows

    I really wanted to call in this morning but was on the road so I missed  the opportunity.  If the GPS surveillance is freely allowed, my concern is not just with government and corporate usage, but also with subversive personalities that would be able to access tracking devices and use them to determine when a home is vacant or to stalk someone.  If police are not restricted, then wouldn’t the population in general be able to also use the technology?  As the technology becomes more accessible you know that people with darker thought processes will find creative ways to employ it.

    • Ellen Dibble

      I think you can already hijack this technology.  In a restraining order, I hear that the spouse “had a tracker put on my phone,” and when I got home (violence ensued because of the route she had taken).  The guy felt he had a right to surveille her like that, the idea being that technology like that is meant to be used, so find it, apply it, use it — against your significant other, apparently.

      • the shadow knows

        …and it’s all legal ??? !!!!!

        • Ellen Dibble

          Apparently not “as” illegal as beating her up.  

  • Pingback: Poster's Paradise » SUPREME COURT WILL RULE IF GPS TRACKING WITH OUT WARRENT..

  • Modavations

    When they do the T.V. tests,you get a test pattern,followed by ahh,ahhh,ahhh,for 15 seconds.I keep seeing this PSA, where this guy says ,don’t panic because of the extended outage of services.He says,don’t be alarmed,tell your friends.Are they about the shut down the internet?I’m uncomfortable.Today’s topic is quite apropo

    • Anonymous

      Take your meds chicken little.

      • Drew You Too

        But the Sky Is Falling, The Sky Is Falling!

        And this is off topic but I just had something happen which has happened before and I find it disturbing. It said that “This site has blocked you from commenting”. It went away (obiously, since I am now able to post) but I fail to understand the reason this pops up. I am not inciteful and avoid derogatory speech, does anyone else experience this? Just wondering…

        • Modavations

          They banish you ,from time to time.I’ve been thrown off twice.You sit around in the Phanton Zone,for a few weeks,playing Checkers with Lex Luther.

  • GivingItAllAway

    Privacy?  What’s that? 

    Hold on, I’ll tweet all my Facebook friends with my I-phone and see if there’s and app for that.

  • the shadow knows

    Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.  If there is no ‘check’ placed on the GPS surveillance, the technology will be used unethically and with impunity.

  • Modavations

    Seriously,is there anything sadder ,then watching the advocates of Big Government,worry about Big Brother.To quote Ultrax,that’s Orwellian.Banning Light Bulbs,how pathertic

    • Anonymous

      Yes, your diatribes.

  • Modavations

    There is one lesson to learn from Mr.Cains “high tech lynching”.That is,never hire a woman,or minority.If you do,make sure there is a witness to any conversation.

  • Modavations

    J_O_H_N_,or Ultrax.We await your reply.What was the rational behind JFK’s, cutting the tax rate.What did he mean, when he said,”Rising Seas Lift All Boats”.

  • Modavations

    Where were all these aggrieved women, when Cain was running for the Senate.Are you aware that the latest lady,lives in the apartment bldg.,of Mr .Axelrod.Yes,that Axelrod.You guys embarrass me.

  • Modavations

    Jeffe and the rest of you appologists.Why did Hitler name the party”National Workers Socialist Party?

    • PublicEnemy1

      To fool people into accepting a right-wing fascist police state.

      • Modavations

        I’ll try again.I was in Berlin in September.I asked any number of people if Hitler was a socialist.They laughed.They thought it preposterous ,that I would ask such a question.You guys love to rewrite History.I knowI know,Che was a misunderstood genius.Now please tell me why the party was named National Workers Socialist Party.Why the name ,Union of Soviet Socialist Republic.How’bout People’s Republic of China,or Korean Peoples Democratic Republic.I know,I know,the Republicans really didn’t free the slaves.Frederick Douglas wasn’t really a Republican.The earth is the center of the universe

        • Anonymous

          No you don’t know that’s the problem!

      • Modavations

        They anticipated this 50 years ago.It’s like the birthers.Obama’s moma knew he would run for president in 50 years,so she planted the cribbed certificate.And of course,Mossad knocked down the Twin Towers.Mon Dieu

    • PublicEnemy1

      Hey dudu for brains, you really don’t know any history do you.  Hitler didn’t start the party.

      • PublicEnemy1

        In fact he joined it because they were violently anticommunist and shooting leftists in the street.

      • Modavations

        Not only did he design the Swatstika(?)flag for the NDSAP(national german socialist workers party),he took his cue from Benito M.Benito was the editor of the socialist newspaper,Avanti,in Trento.There was the Dap,the DSP,Danish Commies,White Ruussians,Bolsheviks,all trying to seize power.Nothing but socialist-communist rats of one stripe or another,eating each other.

        • PublicEnemy1

          I can see you are the type who believes in the words that politicians use to hide their real intentions — which are always to maintain and increase their own power. When Hitler returned, a decorated combatant in a war that he thought was being won, he was violently anticommunist and antisemetic, because he believed it was the Jews who cause Germanys defeat.  He volunteered to join the anticommunist fascist veterans org and they sent him to spy on the national socialists.  He saw an opportunity there and used it to upsurp them with the muscle of the fascists behind him. Most of the bolsheviks in USSR were Jewish at first so it all fit for him. (Actually the person who invented the “death camp” was a Jew who ran the prison system and told Stalin that he could easily work and starve them to death) talk about cosmic karma, also many of the most bloody leaders in the USSR were Jews at first, as were about a third of the military officers in Germany.
          The truth is that the USSR was not communist either.  The first government in the USSR was communist but when the bolsheviks took over that all changed.  They continued to use some of the Marxsist rhetoric but they were merely totalitarian thugs who did everything that there sick paranoia could come up with to maintain their power.  Every two bit populist that the capitalists found threatening was tagged as a communist just so idiots like you could be roused to give them the power to act against them. Like in Central America, and Vietnam. As far as I can tell the only communists that ever existed were probably the early Christians communities and some insignificant communes that popped up here and there, like in colonial America.

          Further, Hitler did not design the swastika.  The swastika is an ancient graphic symbol (usually a sun symbol) that has been found in every old culture on earth with a few exceptions.  See the book The Migration of Symbols, not only that it is a primal organic symbol that is impressed upon your metabolism on an unconscious level and has the potential of appearing during a point of transition to a higher level of consciousness, but I don’t think that need concern you.

          The nazi were backed by the prime capitalist players in Germany, their primary hatred was of Communism which threatened their position of power.

          • Modavations

            I know,Hitler,Pol pot,Che are just minunderstood geniuses.I could have writtten that speel in 2 paragraphs,who’s gonna read it.Are you guys aware that 70 Democrats, belong to the Socialist Party of America.Yes,it’s all the usual suspects

          • Anonymous

            So.

          • Modavations

            All the murderous regimes start as socialists.There is obviouslly a nascent virus in the philosophy.

          • PublicEnemy1

            The British Empire
            The Catholic Church
            The Swedish Protestants
            The Franks
            The Romans
            The Huns
            The Tartars
            The Mongels
            The pricipalites of the Muslem pirates
            The Romanovs
            The Windsors
            Allende
            The Aztec and Myan priests and royalty
            All the Native American nations with the exception of the Hopi.
            The pirates in the Arabian Gulf
            The conquestadores (now there were some bloody capitalists)
            I could go on, and on and on.

            None socialist all bloody regimes.

            As societies evolve they tend toward more enlightened social programs therefore most modern societies are socialist in some sense, except for maybe China, where there is no social safety net and you are on your own. Only fools believe that China is a communist nation, it is a fascist state in a time of manic exuberance.  You should move to somewhere were there is no socialism at all: Somalia comes to mind.

          • Modavations

            Let’s just bring it to Cain and Able.Let’s just bring it to T-Cells.You understood the jist of my comments and thus the back and forth.

          • Modavations

            Don’t forget Henry Ford.

    • Anonymous

      I read that the moderators have banned you. Keep it up.

      • Modavations

        Twice.I like checkers.

      • Modavations

        Dude.I’m the one who told you.Who are you looking at?

  • Modavations

    Seriously,when have you ever seen a PSA like this.They are warning of an extended service interruption.They are saying do not be concerned.They are saying,tell a friend.When has there been a PSA like this.Answer please.

    • Anonymous

      The answer is you are paranoid. Which comes as no surprise. 

    • nj

      The last time there was a three-minute, nation-wide test.

      Go away now.

  • Jeffreywilson Email

    If warrantless GPS tracking by police is permissible because citizens do not have a right to expect privacy in public places, then why can’t anyone engage in GPS tracking of anyone else based on the same limitation of citizens’ rights? Can a private investigator engage in secret GPS tracking? Can one individual track another individual’s activities outside the home for any reason? Can a business track a consumer? Can a foreign government track American citizens in the US? If we don’t have a right to any form of privacy in public, what’s to prevent any of these scenarios from being legal?

    • Anonymous

      Sorry already being done.

  • PublicEnemy1

    They give you brain cancer and dispose of your privacy but people still carry them everywhere they go.  It’s like everyone has become an idiot tween age girl, with their tweets and facebook and other vain bull.

    • Michele

      But not a vain idiot tween age boy?

      • PublicEnemy1

        There are any number of allusions that happens to just be the best one, for a number of reasons about which neither of us care.

  • Someone

    I’m concerned that I can purchase an item, for my own personal use, pay the bills for the item, and it can still be seized without my knowledge for “law enforcement” use.  It would be one thing if the government paid for individual cell phones, and “issued” them to someone.  In that case, I can understand the idea of “monitoring” at any time.  But in the case currently before the supreme court, the GPS unit used by law enforcement was private property.  As such, once the warrant ran out, it was unreasonable seizure of personal property.

    Another question here, since the police can track whenever they choose, I seriously doubt they would stop monitoring once a person was inside their home, on private property where reasonable expectation of privacy would be had.  Many modern devices allow police access and monitor the device camera, microphone and gps data even when turned off by the individual who owns the device.

    In essence, the device is no more “public” than if I were writing a book on a word processor while sitting in the park.  It should be protected as private property, private “papers,” etc as the framers intended.  My private information, stored on an electronic device of MY purchase(ie private property), should not be viewed as  “public” simply because the device has the “ability” to use external network sources.  Does my automobile become “public” simply because I drive it?  If I wear a ball cap outside, should police be able to sneak tracking equipment on it while I’m not looking and call it “legal?”

    I heard the argument regarding the tracking of GPS as being an extension of what law enforcement can currently do by following a person around.  The difference here is that following a person would be done using public means (eg the publicly owner police vehicles, radios, etc).  Using the person’s PERSONAL and PRIVATE cell phone or personal gps device is the equivalent to violation of a persons right against self-incrimination.  Maybe it would instead be a better tactic to go ahead an install “state funded” tracking devices in each and every American.  Then it would be “legal” though not quite as inexpensive for the government.  If the government can “seize” your personal property any time they desire, then what is “private property?”

    • Anonymous

      ” Maybe it would instead be a better tactic to go ahead an install “state
      funded” tracking devices in each and every American.  Then it would be
      “legal” though not quite as inexpensive for the government.”

      That’s next and guess what your taxes pay for it, why care about expense. Please don’t give any more ideas.

    • Article 9

      Love your thinking!!  Great points!

  • Jude

    My sentiments about this are summed up by Justice Bryer:
    “If you win this case then there is nothing to prevent the police or the government from monitoring 24 hours a day the public movement of every citizen of the United States, and no one, at least very rarely, sends human beings to follow people 24 hours a day. That occasionally happens. But with the machines, you can. So if you win, you suddenly produce what sounds like 1984.”

    • Just Trust The Government

      It still amazes me that, during the course of the Arab Spring, the whole world seemed in uproar about the infringements of the Syrian(et al) governments monitoring and using gps, posts, etc to arrest those who disagreed with the government.  All year, it seems, I’ve heard over and over the travesty befallen those whom the government monitored and the “horror” of a system where its citizens were monitored so closely and when discovered, punished/arrested/who knows what.

      All the “concern” for those seeking “freedom” in a civilization that monitored every electronic communication.  The reporters daily chime with disgust at how horrible it must be for those seeking their freedom with civil disobedience, and protect.

      And here, in the “freedom” capital of the world, there are people that actually think having that kind of government power HERE is a “good” idea.

  • Not an Alex Jones fan

    While there are privacy concerns, this technology can be used to find criminals and terrorists.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnIWSI2tkDM

    • Someone

      At what cost to civil liberty?

      • Not an Alex Jones fan

        There’s always going to be a trade-off.

        Let’s hope our elected officials don’t exploit it to go after their rivals.

        You can bet that fear-mongering charlatans like Alex Jones will exploit issues like this in order to sell hate and loathing, all for a profit.

        • Anonymous

          “There’s always going to be a trade-off.” and you better hope it’s not you. oops sorry we trashed your house and shot your dog, wrong address.

          “Let’s hope our elected officials don’t exploit it to go after their rivals.”
          Naa they wouldn’t do that, boy are you naive.

        • NoFanOfYours

          Oh, and the good ol’ USofA isn’t exploiting hate and loathing while selling fear-mongering for a profit?

          Grow up choir boy and find a new venue to rant at.

          I’m guessing you’ve probably already trolled at the Alex Jones website and you got your butt handed to you on a platter.

          Recommend you troll elsewhere or the same will happen to you here.

    • Edward

      “this technology can be used to find criminals and terrorists.”

      Ugh.  So can lots of awful things; that doesn’t mean we should do them.

    • NoTradeOffs

      ‘Don’t Tread On Me’:

      “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”

      BENJAMIN FRANKLIN, Pennsylvania Assembly: Reply to the Governor, November 11, 1755.—The Papers of Benjamin Franklin, ed. Leonard W. Labaree, vol. 6, p. 242 (1963).

      This quotation, slightly altered, is inscribed on a plaque in the stairwell of the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty: “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

  • GetSomeRealExperts

    I wonder why On Point didn’t ask anyone from the Electronic Frontier Foundation or the ACLU on the show?

    “The European Parliament today formally recognized what has become increasingly clear: some European tech companies have been selling to repressive governments the tools used to surveil democracy activists.”

    https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/10/eu-parliament-takes-first-step-bans-sales

    https://www.eff.org/mention/eff-aclu-file-lawsuits-over-patriot-act-data-collection

    https://www.eff.org/mention/fbi-going-court-more-often-get-personal-internet-usage-data

  • MoreThanUnreasonable

    I wonder why On Point is just focusing on just a ‘tracking’ data case, because unreasonable search and seizure doesn’t just include GPS data:

    A US Department of Justice test of the CelleBrite UFED used by Michigan police found the device could grab all of the photos and video off of an iPhone within one-and-a-half minutes. The device works with 3000 different phone models and can even defeat password protections.

    “Complete extraction of existing, hidden, and deleted phone data, including call history, text messages, contacts, images, and geotags,” a CelleBrite brochure explains regarding the device’s capabilities. “The Physical Analyzer allows visualization of both existing and deleted locations on Google Earth. In addition, location information from GPS devices and image geotags can be mapped on Google Maps.”

    http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/34/3458.asp

    • the shadow knows

      On Point was focused solely on the GPS tracking issue due to the fact that the case is going up in front of the Supreme Court.  To your point, the privacy issue certainly is more complex than just the GPS issue, but other issues were not being ruled on.  So the pertinent point is just the GPS tracking.  Seems to have sparked enough chatter on its own.

  • Joanie

    I think the Constitution’s meaning truly needs updating.   When they wrote “the Right to Bear Arms”    I am sure they had not idea we would be carrying Saturday night specials around or Uzi’s.   I am all for hunting with guns in appropriate areas.    If we could carry the kinds of guns that they were speaking of “Muskets”   I am sure no one would feel quite so uncomfortable with the “Right to Bear Arms” as in Constituions Privacy Amendment.

    • Someone

      I bet that if ALL Americans were armed ALL the time, the government would feel less comfortable encroaching our civil liberties.

      Not to worry though, the Constitution WAS amended and nullified just to provide the type of “terrorist and criminal control” that obviously seems more concerning than the loss of freedom.  The question then becomes “who is a terrorist? or who is a criminal?”  With such a complex system of laws in place, I would dare bet that most people probably break at LEAST one law every day and don’t even know it.  Oh, and the nullification I spoke of earlier performed, in one fail swoop, the virtual eradication of the Constitution… and this was called “Patriot” Act.  If the act ever becomes permanent, The Constitution is dead and not worth the paper its printed on… except in a historical sense… and maybe to keep the illusion of freedom alive.

      • Guest

        “I bet that if ALL Americans were armed ALL the time, the government would feel less comfortable encroaching our civil liberties.”
        Seriously? Who would you shoot? The police? Elected officials? When you actually think about it, your idea makes no sense.

  • ForASmallPrice

    Here is an article from the end of 2009, reminding everyone that your private information can be had for a song by multiple enforcement agencies just by using a password.

    (Remember, checking on the court orders and warrants are not necessarily the responsibility of the compliance office(r) supposedly protecting your ‘private information’, who are usually over-worked and out numbered by the requests they receive.)

    Yahoo Sells All Its Users Private Email Contents to U.S. Agencies for Small Price

    Threat Level reported Tuesday that muckraker and Indiana University graduate student Christopher Soghoian had asked all agencies within the Department of Justice, under a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request, to provide him with a copy of the pricing list supplied by telecoms and internet service providers for the surveillance services they offer government agencies.

    http://www.mathaba.net/news/?x=622292

    VII.  COST REIMBURSEMENT POLICY (page 12)

    - Basic subscriber records: approx. $20 for the first ID, $10 per ID thereafter
    - Basic Group Information (including information about moderators): approx. $20 for a group with a single moderator
    - Contents of subscriber accounts, including email: approx. $30-$40 per user
    - Contents of Groups: approx. $40 – $80 per group

    http://cryptome.org/isp-spy/yahoo-spy.pdf

  • Pingback: GW Law Faculty Demonstrate Expertise in Supreme Court Case re: GPS « 20th & H: GW Law Dean's Blog

  • Hidan

    And some people want to give more power to the police

    http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/01/12/police_fight_cellphone_recordings/

    Police fight cellphone recordings

    Witnesses taking audio of officers arrested, charged with illegal surveillance

    “Simon Glik, a lawyer, was walking down
    Tremont Street in Boston when he saw three police officers struggling to
    extract a plastic bag from a teenager’s mouth. Thinking their force
    seemed excessive for a drug arrest, Glik pulled out his cellphone and
    began recording.Within minutes, Glik said, he was in handcuffs.
    “One
    of the officers asked me whether my phone had audio recording
    capabilities,’’ Glik, 33, said recently of the incident, which took
    place in October 2007. Glik acknowledged that it did, and then, he said,
    “my phone was seized, and I was arrested.’’
    The charge? Illegal electronic surveillance.
    Jon
    Surmacz, 34, experienced a similar situation. Thinking that Boston
    police officers were unnecessarily rough while breaking up a holiday
    party in Brighton he was attending in December 2008, he took out his
    cellphone and began recording.
    Police
    confronted Surmacz, a webmaster at Boston University. He was arrested
    and, like Glik, charged with illegal surveillance.
    There
    are no hard statistics for video recording arrests. But the
    experiences of Surmacz and Glik highlight what civil libertarians call a
    troubling misuse of the state’s wiretapping law to stifle the kind of
    street-level oversight that cellphone and video technology make
    possible.”

    • Someone

      What amazes me is that as government and Law Enforcement continues to infringe on the rights of the people, they continually push for laws and consequences to PREVENT people from even recording them and their actions IN PUBLIC SPACE.

      • SomeoneElse

        That’s why they call it a ‘police state’ and not a ‘people state’.

        It’s kind of like at work, how your bosses get to evaluate your performance, but you don’t get to evaluate their performance.

        Now, that would be a ‘game changer’.

  • James Damico

    Where else does one drive their car if not in public?

    • Someone

      but the car is not public property.  Just because I drive in public, the police, or Joe-Blow does not have the right to just jump in my car and drive it around, or search through it… but it seems to be the mentality of some that the government should be able to use my phone and the equipment that I PURCHASED at its leisure.

  • Keith R.

     Daniel Solove

    Our movements are not our intentions.

    What are we losing, are we afraid of, that we will not allow ourselves to   be tracked?

    Less arguing of the fourth amendment and perhaps a little light on the “high-tech” age’s stigma of “big brother”. -Busy cooking dinner-Great program, tonight-

    • Edward

      At the very best, you seem unimaginative.  I grew up during the cold war, when dissidents in the Soviet Union were rightly lionized for speaking out against their government.  They did this under constant surveillance.  It’s wrong to say that being spied on has no effect – the effect is quite direct, and quite chilling.

      Imagine if you could track “bad” people and map out who they met with and talked to.  The Soviets and East Germans dedicated immense manpower to exactly this.  Our government wants to do the same thing on an automated basis, and much more efficiently.  The Soviet security services would have salivated if wide-scale gps tracking was possible in the 80s.

      We know that any unaccountable authority given to the government will be abused.  Already the feds have been caught putting tracking devices on innocent people’s cars, so don’t think this is just for drug dealers:

      http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/dmh5s/does_this_mean_the_fbi_is_after_us/

      http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110304/10254213366/student-who-found-gps-device-his-car-due-to-reddit-comment-sues-fbi.shtml

      http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/10/fbi-tracking-device/all/1

      • JustImagine

        Just imagine how a new McCarthyism would play out if the current technology would be deployed.

        Just imagine how many Eugene V. Debs would be put in jail for being against war.

        Just imagine how many people could be rounded up, questioned and prosecuted by our government because they had an email, text or a recording of a conversation identifying you for criticizing what the government was doing – you could easily be considered an ‘enemy combatant’ by the patriot act and be put away without any civil rights.

        • Edward

           “Just imagine how many Eugene V. Debs would be put in jail for being against war.”

          Agreed.  And not just those people, but everyone they’ve spent time with.

  • Edward

    To all those saying, “I’ve done nothing wrong, I’ve got nothing to hide”: If you’ve done nothing wrong, why do you put up with your government spying on you?

  • Brit H

    I only got to listen to part of it, but I feel a big issue with one of the pro GPS arguments wasn’t addressed.  The idea that a GPS tracker is no differently then covertly tailing someone is completely ridiculous.  The biggest issue is with cost.  

    The cost to a police department to covertly tail someone is massive, both in manpower and direct spending.  This necessitates a certain level of commitment and evidence that it is quite likely that the person being tailed actually has done or will do something illegal or dangerous.  It is a built in litmus test which is not required by GPS tracking, which should without a doubt have the requirement of at least a warrant.  

  • Mick

    GPS tracking would do more good than harm but the privacy aspect would have to be like car registrations or unlisted phone numbers where law enforcement would be able to get certain access and the average Joe or Sally could not.

    Mick

  • Modavations

    So now the party of Big Govt., is worried about Big Brother.As my pal Ultran would quip,This is Orwellian

    • Anonymous

      So.

    • GoodDog

      Anti-War, Anti-Collusive Banker, Pro-Civil Liberties Ron Paul is waiting for well-meaning progressives to understand the long-term value of limited, constitutional government. 

  • Brennan511

    “primary” searches with reasonable cause for public safety really isn’t my bag.
    But “secondary” type searches with rational causes, are the missing link. If we seek and solve these “lost” secondary denominators, then civility will have more self interest and awareness.
    Big Brother without “Big Sister” is [privately] where a bully’s ignorance has a bottomless rationality.
    That which agitates/activates vice from statistical Global Position/location is the true map of American civility and constitutes greater justice.

  • Ugh

    Another ordinary person found a tracking device on his car:

    http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/11/gps-tracker-times-two/all/1

    The feds installed a similar spy device on his girlfriend’s car as well.  And it gets better: when the spied-on citizen called Wired and arranged to meet with one of their reporters, police followed him to the agreed-on meeting place for the interview and hung around nearby, presumably to intimidate him.

  • Anonymous

    What about the Declaration of Independence : Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from
    the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government
    becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to
    alter or to abolish it,

  • Anonymous

    What about the Declaration of Independence : Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from
    the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government
    becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to
    alter or to abolish it,

  • JustSayin

    I bet Tom was surprised to find out that he is Not Allowed to read the Constitution., as the caller stated.  Inferring that the Constitution and Bill Of Rights are not documents for the common man who has no real legal understanding of them.

    Identical to the art critics who believe that art museums should not display art, because the peasants have no right to view art without a superior understanding of its true intent… and that even includes the artists themselves.

    According to the guest, the writers and signers of the Constitution have no real understanding of it’s intent or meaning.  How Orwellian. 

    “Under the spreading chestnut tree; I sold you ; You sold me.” -George Orwell.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=14313816 Tim Noble

    You would have little recourse if the police or a private investigator happened to follow you (particularly without your knowledge). Should a private investigator or other private individual be able to place a GPS tracking unit on your car? I think not. If the general public has no right to track whoever they like using secretly placed GPS units, then neither do the police.

  • YDKDY

    If old-fashioned surveillance by following somebody around on foot and in a car is the same as using GPS tracking devices at will by law-enforcement, then what is the latter the same as – making GPS tracking devices standard equipment on all new automobiles and hooking them all up to the internet for real-time public access? After all, you don’t have anything to hide, do you? What would a policeman do if you followed HIM around all day? There have actually been so many news reports, recently, of policeman suing photographers that the ACLU came out with a concise discussion of photographers’ rights:

     http://www.aclu.org/free-speech/know-your-rights-photographers

    Obama can kill anybody, including U.S. Citizens, that he deems to be a terrorist.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/25/AR2010092500560.html

    An insane policeman can put anybody in Massachusetts into a mental institution, even remove them from their homes, including the governor. The law just says “policeman”, it doesn’t say he has to be sane.  

    http://ps.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleID=79938

    According to last Thursday’s _Boston Globe_, editorial page, the FBI is unable to control itself (Thursday, 03-NOV-2011).

    The NYPD is conducting “human mapping” of people who have not committed any known crime. And, a member of the CIA had an office in one of the NYPD buildings.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2011-09-13/cia-nypd-investigation/50384884/1

    According to Dr. Howard Belkin, MD if somebody has private information on you and knew psychology “you would do what you were asked to do.” See 01:08 total run time 02:49.

    http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/the_edge/is-the-military-trying-to-control-senator-carl-levin's-mind%3F

    I’d rather have a policeman go to bat for the team in the bottom of the ninth, than have him play psychologist, God – knowing where you are at all times – and human mapper.

    Go read _The End of America_ and call me in the morning, unless the police have turned your cell phone off.

    http://www.endofamericamovie.com/

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/oct/30/metropolitan-police-mobile-phone-surveillance

    • YDKDY

      Furthermore…

      I haven’t checked the PRC “Chronology of Data Breaches”, but is law-enforcement listed here?

      http://www.privacyrights.org/data-breach

      I have concerns about what law-enforcement does with the data they collect. Is it protected from criminal access? Or, are they doing part of the criminals’ job for them, by collecting the data to be stolen? If they are not on the list, why not? Do they have a perfect data-protection system? If so, why isn’t it being publicly marketed “used by police forces everywhere” to make millions? If they are on the list that would get a point, in my book, for honesty and accurate accounting. It would then also help if something was being done about it (the data breach).

      How is private data disposed, by law-enforcement? Are papers cross-shreaded or thrown in the dumpster? Is private information emailed? According to Mischel Kwon of RSA “It’s too hard. It’s too expensive.” to provide internet security. See 11-JUN-2011 _Boston Globe_.  

      In their quest to make everyones’ real-time location public, maybe law-enforcement should also come under FTC scrutiny, as well as congress’s.

      Police are doing a great job, as far as I know, up to this point. By holding them accountable by the laws of the land, the 3 party system and so forth, I hope to see their good work continue well into the future.

  • Oolgh127oo

    What about red light camera?  They remotely survey those.  If GPS tracking is not okay, because the officer is not there to see you directly, is a red light camera any different?

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  • GoodDog

    Is GPS Tracking An ‘Unreasonable Search?’

    Is nothing self-evident to us sheeple anymore?

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