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Week In The News: Greece On The Edge, Cain In Trouble, OWS In Oakland

Europe on the edge. Herman Cain and harassment. Occupy heats up in Oakland. Our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

Occupy Oakland protesters stand atop a railroad scaffold at the Port of Oakland on Wednesday, Nov. 2, 2011, in Oakland, Calif. Thousands of Wall Street protesters took to Oakland's streets as part of a day-long series of events, called a citywide strike, aimed at asserting the movement's strength and shutting down commerce. (AP)

Occupy Oakland protesters stand atop a railroad scaffold at the Port of Oakland on Wednesday, Nov. 2, 2011, in Oakland, Calif. Thousands of Wall Street protesters took to Oakland's streets as part of a day-long series of events, called a citywide strike, aimed at asserting the movement's strength and shutting down commerce. (AP)

Europe up in arms this week over Greece. Occupy Oakland on the march. And Herman Cain in the hot seat over allegations of sexual harassment. Rightwing radio says liberals fanned the story. Cain says Texas Republican Rick Perry brought it on.

It’s a circus, and a problem for Cain. In the US Senate, a Democratic push for infrastructure spending to boost the US economy is dead. Poverty numbers are up. Former Goldman Sachs man and governor Jon Corzine’s high-risk finance play blows up. He’s out.

This hour On Point: our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

-Tom Ashbrook

Guests

Louise Story, business reporter for the New York Times.

William McKenzie, Pulitzer Prize-winning editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News.

Jack Beatty, On Point news analyst.

From Tom’s Reading List

The New York Times “A little before 2 a.m. on Monday, Jon S. Corzine was in MF Global’s offices in Midtown Manhattan, scrambling to cut a deal to save his firm. Haggard from too little sleep, at times pacing the hallways, he at least had a handshake agreement with one suitor for the firm.”

Fox News “Herman Cain’s top aide accused Texas Gov. Rick Perry’s campaign of being behind the recent stories about sexual harassment allegations against Cain from the 1990s that have rocked the former pizza company executive’s presidential campaign.”

Oakland Tribune “After a night of confrontations with police and 80 arrests in downtown Oakland, Occupy protesters temporarily blocked an entrance at the Port of Oakland Thursday morning, attempting to prevent trucks from entering.”

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  • Hidan

    Just released what Cain said that caused those Sexual Harassment cases. Dude Cain can rap

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoVb6-s-wEA

  • Wm. James from Missouri

    Mr. Ashbrook, and NPR,

    I suggest that you read and research an article in the NewScientist, entitled, “ Revealed – the capitalist network that runs the world “The study was conducted by: Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich,
    http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228354.500-revealed–the-capitalist-network-that-runs-the-world.html?utm_source=KurzweilAI+Weekly+Newsletter+Plain+Text&utm_campaign=08aa3f6c56-UA-946742-1&utm_medium=emailThey studied 37 million companies and investors worldwide to arrive at a list of companies that run the world. This is a non political study and used mathematical concepts, including complexity theory in their study. As I read the article I realized that this study may give us the tools we have been looking for to understand how we may prevent more financial crashes, as happened in the Lehman Brothers fiasco, strengthen an individual’s investment portfolio and may even give the Occupy Wall Street group meaningful data that will help clarify a complex subject and allow us all to understand how we got to where we are !

  • No Alex Jones fan

    Whether or not Greece is in the Eurozone, the Eurozone will remain strong.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnIWSI2tkDM

    • Anonymous

      @63f570183eebbc092344a08e328c0a3f:disqus  Whether the Eurozone remains strong will depend on whether the ECB (European Central Bank) gets off its one note samba of “price stability” and recognizes it role as “Lender of Last Resort.” Even if it doesn’t have “legal justification.”

      Read Brad DeLong’s repost on Project Syndicate:

      http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/delong119/English

      This is the ONLY way that the markets can see that any run on government treasuries (Italy, Spain, Ireland, etc.) can be stopped. The governments of Germany and  France alone do not have the money.

      Right now, Italy is running a “primary surplus.” That means that it has more revenues than expenses when interest on its debt is not counted. But it does not have enough income to retire that debt and so must roll it over. When the markets demand higher and higher interest, it is like a run on a private bank: the interest payments grow faster than they can be paid and the total debt balloons in a cycle to bankruptcy, which would not happen if Italy could borrow at rates not a lot higher than Germany can.

      The other aspect is that most of the goods produced in the Eurozone are consumed there. If, as is the current case, all the governments are pursuing “austerity,” where is the necessary growth going to come from? What the Eurozone needs is for a slightly higher rate of inflation so that the weaker economies (Greece, if it remains; Italy, Spain and Portugal, etc.) can let their costs deflate with respect to Germany, etc., without actually going through deflation, which is difficult and devastating on the population [e.g., Germany inflates at 4% while Spain inflates at 0%, which is a lot easier than Germany at 2% while Spain actually deflates at 2%).

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

    This Herman Cain is a bogus opportunist. 

    He comes across as this big free market guy, but was in reality a beneficiary of affirmative action, and racial oriented subsidies in his education.  

    He made his mark IN GOVERNMENT SERVICE for the Navy (big capitalism here?) on the taxpayers dime.  

    Then instead of exhibiting entrepreneurial abilities, like starting a dry cleaning business like the fictional George Jefferson,  he goes to work for the ultimate of rigid mega quasi-govt institutions and conglomerates:  COCA COLA and Pillsbury (huge Navy contractors) – most likely enjoying an affirmative action edge and drawing on Navy connections. 

    So now Herman turns his back on his own kinsman, and expects tens of millions of black youth to rise to CEO in today’s economic climate with little affirmative action and a wealthy gap that has left the black community in the dust.

    It is no surpise to see the Obama’s and the Cains surface in today’s world, Africa is now the target on the sociopath PNAC agenda… starting with Libya, Sudan and Somalia.  And Herman Cain has given his blind allegiance to the Israel AIPAC lobby and to the defense industry. 

    I have heard Herman Cain speak.  He’s not that bright but has the savy and integrity of a used-car salesman.   He comes across as a pampered government upper management type that is better suited to heading the Department of Motor Vehicles.

    Another compromised fraud, posing as a statesman and a leader of people.  America.

    • nj

      And listen to him (if one can force oneself) discuss anything to do with foreign policy. He can’t disguise the fact that he’s totally clueless.

  • SteveV

    While I know little about politics, I can’t understand why (regarding the
    Republican primaries) Mr. Cain is (1) in the race at all, and (2) at 30% in the
    polls, while Mr. Huntsman, with his long history of government service, is stuck
    at 2%. As an Independent I’ve listened to both debate and find Mr. Huntsman the
    only person I’d consider voting for. In any event it’s probably a mute point as
    Mr. Romney will most likely be their choice when all is said and done.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

      Hey SteveV.   

      The corporate Media controls the exposure and choreographs this charade known as the “democratic process”.
      Huntsman is just a prop.   And Bachmann is comic relief.
      The winner is already in their pocket.

    • Anonymous

      You view these things from an informed and rational point of view.  That approach is used by only a tiny portion of prospective voters.  Hence, Cain now front runner, following Trump, Bachman, Perry.  Gingrich will be the next one when the Cain harassment stuff is over.

    • Anonymous

      Because Huntsman isn’t an insane ideologue and actually maintains a grasp of reality, ie, he acknowledges that science provides answers about the real world.

      • Gregg

        I don’t know about the science part but I agree his popularity suffers because he is not an ideologue. These are times when we need to decide one way or the other and quit trying to find some mushy middle.

        • Anonymous

          I was referring to his stance on evolution and climate change, and his warning to the GOP about becoming an anti-science party.  (Too late!)

          “The minute the Republican party becomes the anti-science party, we have a huge problem. When we take a position that isn’t willing to embrace evolution, when we take a position that basically runs counter to what 98 out of 100 climate scientists from what the National Academy of Scientists said on what is causing climate change, and man’s contribution to it, I think we find ourselves on the wrong side of science and in a losing position.” -Jon Huntsman

        • Greggless

          no ideologue – mushy middle – too easy

    • William

      You could say the same thing about Obama. Community Organizer, associations with radical left, bomb throwers, supporter of late term abortions, voted present numerous times, attended a racist church for years and then tried to deny it…why would any sane person vote for Obama?

      • Anonymous

        Oh please, what a load of right wing hogwash.
        Can’t you folks come up with any real comments based on critical thinking and rational thought?  

      • Anonymous

        @9ab4a4d40291f986554d9e42bb7d082a:disqus  Are you implying that no late-term abortion can be justified? There are cases when a late-term fetus develops a problem that doctors can determine will result in a still-birth or, as in Rick Santorum’s wife’s case, a baby that will live days at best. Additionally, the “normal” delivery of babies with these problems can cause damage to the mother which prevents having any more children.
        I cannot imagine the emotional distress that a woman, informed of such a situation, would go through and for what better result? Each case is so individual for these cases, but they have a common bottom line: what advantage does the individual or even society gain by an indiscriminate ban on any doctor providing the best medical care possible for both mother and fetus?

        Roe v. Wade allows the prohibition of “whimsical” abortions after the first trimester; after that it makes good sense to restrict the reasons for abortions to medical ones, but the idea that all fetuses develop normally without severe problems is a dangerous fiction. I use the term “whimsical” only because that seems to be the way radical “pro-life” people seem to think they are. While a few may be, I will not make that judgment in the vast majority of cases where I and they cannot know all the facts.

        The wealthy will always be able to get an abortion; the outlawing of abortion only discriminates against the poor. And the latest wrinkle where a woman, suffering the trauma of a natural miscarriage might well have to defend against a district attorney investigating if she had had an abortion.

    • Anonymous

      @2ae1bfe428aa915fa2aecaf89f668051:disqus  The Republican presidential primaries are all over the lot because the Republican Party has been or is being taken over by a group of super conservative (both economically and religiously) people, who have subsequently been captured in their leadership by the really wealthy of the country. They have never accepted Mitt Romney, many because of his Mormon religion (that is also a factor with Mr. Huntsman) and the policies he had to espouse to be elected governor of Massachusetts. They are desperate for an alternative and are having a hard time finding one that meets all their conservative demands and shows the understanding necessary to be president.

  • ipswichma

    When OWS starts burning in the streets, I withdraw any support for this movement. Are these groups up to policing their own crazies?

    • Anonymous

      Why blame OWS when the police are trying to create problems?

      “the NYPD seems to have crossed a line in recent days, as the park has taken on a darker tone with unsteady and unstable types suddenly seeming to emerge from the woodwork. Two different drunks I spoke with last week told me they’d been encouraged to “take it to Zuccotti” by officers who’d found them drinking in other parks, and members of the community affairs working group related several similar stories they’d heard while talking with intoxicated or aggressive new arrivals.”

      “He’s got a right to express himself, you’ve got a right to express yourself,” I heard three cops repeat in recent days, using nearly identical language, when asked to intervene with troublemakers inside the park, including a clearly disturbed man screaming and singing wildly at 3 a.m. for the second straight night.

      http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/31/1031772/-Occupy-Wall-Street:-New-York-Police-sending-drunks-to-Zuccotti-Park

      • nj

        There are documented agents provocateurs in Oakland as well. You can be sure the cops are trying to provoke illegal action so they have a pretense to go in and bust things up. Long-standing technique of the power elite.

        • Gregg

          It’s bigger than that, you’re making excuses.

          • nj

            Is that what Rush told you?

          • Gregg

            Yea, right after he read your comment he called with instructions. I’ll get back after my next call.

          • Anonymous

            I usually disagree with Gregg but he responds to posts and doesn’t just repeat Republican talking points or spew utter nonsense like some of the conservative posters. 

          • TFRX

            Gregg is better than some here. (Low bridge, I know.)

            But “punishing the rich” isn’t a right-wing talking point? At what point is that not just “taxing job creators out of existance”?

          • Anonymous

            @J__o__h__n:disqus  He does respond, incessantly trying to divert the subject to something he thinks he can “win the debate” with, no matter how irrelevant it is to the main issue.

            He regularly musters spin that takes discussion to a side issue such as this violence. Who is discussing the fact that it is only Oakland that is having this degree of a problem? Who is looking at the history of actions there with police that have been brutal in past actions? Nothing justifies the rioters, but note that the protest had been peaceful all day until a couple small groups showed up and started acting up. What were the people who had been there to do? How do you know they didn’t try to control those people?

          • Greggless

            Play another card Gregg – wit is not your strong suit

          • Greggless

            Making excuses – that’s Gregg101

          • nj

            What’s bigger than what?

            Greggg’s interaction pattern:

            Greggg makes an inane comment, backed up by fake news sources.

            Greggg gets called out.

            Greggg makes vague, deflective statement.

            Repeat.

            Amongst thousands of demonstrators, over more than a a month, here have been at most about half a dozen sexual harassment incidents from what i can tell.

            When site organizers try to alert police to alleged incidents, they are often met with indifference, at best.

            Greggg made some nonsense claim about a rape crisis center being set up in response to the situation. I can’t find any source that documents this.

    • Gregg

      That’s really the only reasonable response. I saw someone else (Dweber I think) disown them early on as well. It’s really not a partisan issue, everyone should be outraged at the unacceptable behavior. They are not helping their cause.

      • Greggless

        Gregg is not at all outraged by the unacceptable behavior of the banksters who helped their own cause.

  • Anonymous

    Hey, kids! Why don’t we try Democracy for a change? You know: where the side with the most votes gets to pass legislation? Maybe then we’d have a jobs bill:

    “The Senate blocked consideration of $60 billion in infrastructure spending bill funding by a 0.7 percent surtax on incomes over $1 million — a component of President Barack Obama’s American Jobs Act.The bill earned 51 votes of the required 60 to proceed to debate, on an almost entirely party-line vote, as Republicans objected to the new tax.”

    http://www.businessinsider.com/senate-blocks-obama-jobs-bill–again-2011-11#ixzz1cjgsqsRL

    The filibuster is destroying our ability to get anything done. Remember when the media hummed to the refrain of “up or down vote”? Now the same media assures us that 60 votes in the senate are required to pass a bill.

    It’s not in the constitution.
    It’s nothing but a rule the senate adopted.
    They can change it.
    They’ve changed it before.

    • Rob (in NY)

      I have a question for you.  Why has this Administration consistently delayed the vote on proposals to reauthorize highway/transportation bills, which has historically been done in 6 year increments during past Republican and  Democratic Administrations alike.  One of the primary reasons  for the 6 year authorization is that this  better allows state and local governments to understand the federal component and plan their own capital expenditures.     The fact that states do not yet know the federal contribution to basic transportation bills effectively means that they need to delay other projects and harms their ability to access markets to finance capital projects.  Rather than playing political games with these  short stimulus gimmicks, how about reauthorizing the highway bill?   

      Another example of this Administration’s incompetence regarding economics is that the 2009 and other stimulus gimmicks from this Administration of about $1 trillion did little to promote economic growth for more than a quarter.  Lets compare this with the long term economic imoact of gthe the entire US Interstate Highway System signed into law by President Eisenhower in the late 1950s was built for an inflation adjusted $450 billion over 25 years (although most was built in first 10 years).  

      • Anonymous

        The administration has done no such thing.

        The problem has been a lack of Republican votes in the House:

        10/25/11:”Republican leaders in the House have not yet found the money for a fully funded six-year highway program”http://www.truckinginfo.com/news/news-detail.asp?news_id=75095

        11/2/11:

        “The full Senate passed a major appropriations bill yesterday, including funding levels for transportation and housing. The Senate put the kibosh on Sen. Rand Paul’s attempt to strip bike/ped funding from the federal transportation program…The House has until November 18 to debate and vote on the Senate appropriations bills — or, more likely, pass another extension.”

        http://dc.streetsblog.org/2011/11/02/how-will-the-house-answer-the-senate%E2%80%99s-transportation-funding-bill/

        • Rob (in NY)

          I disagree.  This Administration had a large majority in the House and 59 or 60 Democratic votes in the Senate until January 2011,  it would have  been easy to  pass the 6 year reathorization at this time, but was not a priority for them

          • Anonymous

            By your logic Bush should have passed it in 2008.

          • Rob (in NY)

            I did not think it expired until 2010, but if it did earlier than yes.  However, I think we can both agree that Congress had its plate full in 2008 and doing anything else during a Presidential election year, especially a crisis year such as 2008 would have been politically impossible for Congress.

          • Anonymous

            You really should stop spreading misinformation.

            Ted Kennedy died August 25, 2009. Scott Brown took office February 4, 2010.

            Democrats only had the 60 seats needed to overcome Republican filibusters from 7/7/09-8/25/09 (when Al Franken was seated and before Ted Kennedy died) and 9/24/09-2/4/10 (when Paul Kirk was appointed and before Scott Brown was sworn in).

            Less than 6 months, total.

          • Rob (in NY)

            Read my comment.  I said that the Democrats had either 59 or 60 seats during 2009 and 2010, which is factually correct.  In addition, there are at least 5 (probably more) Republicans, including Susan Collins, Scott Brown (after Kennedy died and he took office), Lindsey Graham, Olympia Snowe, Richard Lugar, among others who could have been convinced to vote for a straight highway bill not attached to a larger stimulus package.    If the President can not convince  at least 2 Senators in the other party to vote for something as basic as a 6 year extension of a highway bill , his political skills of persuasion are quite pathetic.    

          • Anonymous

            The misinformation you are peddling is that the Administration is to blame for the fact that the 6 year transpo bill has not passed. Republicans slow walked the bill in 2009 because they expected to take back congress in 2010. Once they did that, they opposed any spending at all.

          • Gregg

            Democrats did not even propose a budget for fear of showing their dastardly agenda in 2010. They still haven’t.

          • Greggless

            Yes, those dastardly democrats and their agenda

          • Anonymous

            @96903834a65ceb2f53ac539f7207679d:disqus  @NewtonWhale:disqus Rob, you are assuming that, as in the past, there exist in each party members who willingly will “cross the isle” to work out legislation that can pass.

            But since Obama was elected, Republicans have seen the financial crisis and Great Recession as the possible culmination of their “starve the beast” program and the Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell went full tilt to exercise every procedural step to “slow walk” all legislation to the utmost. This included allowing an individual Republican to “negotiate” with Democrats in committee until some resolution appears close to completion and then forces some pretext for breaking off the negotiations. Take as an example the negotiations between Sen. Bob Corker (R-TN) and Sen Chris Dodd on financial reform, which led to months of delay in finalizing the legislation. But the granddaddy of such tactics was the “negotiations” in the “Group of Six” (Senators Baucus, Snowe, etc.) caused the committee hearings to extend from June past September of 2009 with no resolution for another month or so.

            This whole specious argument that Democrats had plenty of time to “do their dirty work” has been constructed to appeal to those who learned civics in grammar school and do not follow the day-to-day machinations in Washington, D.C.

      • Anonymous

        Another right wing myth is that the 2009 stimulus bill was a failure:

        “Just look at the outside evaluations of the stimulus. Perhaps the best-known economic research firms are IHS Global Insight, Macroeconomic Advisers and Moody’s Economy.com. They all estimate that the bill has added 1.6 million to 1.8 million jobs so far and that its ultimate impact will be roughly 2.5 million jobs. The Congressional Budget Office, an independent agency, considers these estimates to be conservative.”

        http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/17/business/economy/17leonhardt.html?ref=business

        • Gregg

          The unemployment rate is 9.1%. I don’t think the “it could have been worse” argument is all that valid. 

          • Anonymous

            It is true though.  The stimulous was too small, but without it the economy would be worse.

          • Gregg

            A bigger stimulus would have meant yet more debt. There is a school of thought that says we would have been better off with no stimulus.

          • Gregg

            One example is the “green jobs” fiasco. We are on the hook for billions and the jobs are either going overseas, are non-existent because companies have gone under or have cost millions per job.

          • Anonymous

            @327b60c55221432e499267aebfb70c09:disqus The “going overseas” comment is probably an allusion to the false claim that some car manufacturing is being sent to Europe (Netherlands?) when the federal money was NOT for that aspect, which was already in process while the factory for U.S. manufacturing was being built, and it the fed funds were for that factory.

            The “companies have gone under” is an allusion to the Solyndra “scandal” which while unfortunate is not to be confused with the general great results which are and will be a benefit of the loan guarantee program. While the basic research to possible practical application money is relatively easy to get and the (VC) money for final scale up manufacturing is also relatively easy.

            But what is really hard is to get the money to bridge those two activities, to show how to move from a possible implementation to one capable of full scale implementation, which is difficult because it IS RISKY.

            Thus the real question is why is the program not showing more such failures? is the government being too careful to ensure that only nearly sure things are being done, which might get private funding anyway, at least in a better economy? How are the technical breakthroughs that conservatives claim are needed going to arrive if some risky things are not attempted?

            But Gregg knows that Republican legislators have been making all kinds of requests for money from this funding to go to companies in their districts. They are ONLY against this when they think they can make political hay against Obama.

          • Greggless

            Gregg replying to Gregg:  the sound of one Gregg thinking

          • nj

            That’s kind of like saying there’s a school of thought (using the term loosely) that says we should be teaching “intelligent design” as an equivalent alternative to evolution.

          • Gregg

            Absolutely.

          • Anonymous

            @327b60c55221432e499267aebfb70c09:disqus  What predictions will come from “intelligent design” to help develop new vaccines or treatments of disease or help design systems to make prostheses controllable more directly by the mind?

            Understanding evolution means understanding how cells really work and what features came from what abilities and how those abilities might be used for different ends. The deepest understanding of DNA and how it works with the surrounding proteins will come from those who also understand evolution, not those that think that it was all created as a whole. It would be like someone trying to understand the NTSC color system without knowing it evolved from an NTSC system that was only Black and White. Much, much harder because the color system was awkward and would never have been chosen except that it had to work with the old B&W system simultaneously.

          • Greggless

            Let’s study Gregg for a lack of intelligent design

          • Anonymous

            @327b60c55221432e499267aebfb70c09:disqus  And that school of thought is like the school of thought that believes that unicorns will come to earth and save the economy.

          • Gregg

            It’s bigger than that.

          • Greggless

            ‘No stimulus’ is how one thinks after reading one of your comments.

          • Greggless

            This irrational reply couldn’t have been any worse.

        • Anonymous

          @NewtonWhale:disqus  While not as well known, one that should be is the Economic Policy Institute, “A nonpartisan think tank that seeks to broaden the public debate about strategies to achieve a prosperous and fair economy.”

          This institute performs broadly-respected research on economic issues that affect the poorer as well as the prosperous.

      • nj

        What’s your evidence that the Obama administration has “consistently delayed the vote on proposals to reauthorize highway/transportation bills…”? Congress appears to be the responsible entity.

        http://www.istockanalyst.com/finance/story/5440068/what-s-in-store-for-congress-next-highway-bill

      • Anonymous

        You are telling porky pies.(lies)

  • Terry Tree Tree

    Occupy Wall Street has stated that they are a non-violent, self-assisting group.  Anyone can show up as a member!  Including thugs hired by Wall Street firms, gang members, or individuals just looking for any opportunity to damage something.  With the HUGE majority of OWS, and its related protests, being non-violent, why can’t the vandals be treated as vandals, and the rest be respected as peaceful protesters?

  • Terry Tree Tree

    Herman Cain should be able to give a straight, honest answer, if he did nothing that constitutes sexual harassment, or sexual abuse!
        If he has nothing to hide, let the women that accuse him, speak in public about it, and ALL the evidence, payoffs, and records be made public!

    • Anonymous

      @fa0bc679d4cba4c097672d7e5c15d631:disqus  Politico gave Cain a “heads-up” NINE or TEN DAYS before they made the story public! Either Cain was also not honest with his (limited) staff or he just decided that he could outwit the press on a real smarmy story (a fool’s errand; while the press often fails to even try to get to the meat of an important story, they ALWAYS go for the SEX scandal!).

  • Gregg

    The The agitator in chief is is getting what he wants with these OWSers. He’s spent the last 3 years beating the drum of class envy. This is what you get. Now we learn ACORN is up to their eyeballs in it. No surprise there.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/03/acorn-officials-scramble-firing-workers-and-shredding-documents-after-exposed/
     

    • nj

      Greggg is still clueless. “Class envy.” Good one, Greggg. Obama has been a tool for his Wall Street contributors and the corporate interests they play for.

      And the FOX so-called news smear campaign with unnamed “sources” against a remnant group of community organizers who try to help out poor folks and happen to support a group of Occupiers is somehow supposed to have something to do with Obama or “class envy.” This is apparently what passes for thoughtful, conservative commentary these days.

      (Good refutation of this FOX Snooz nonsense here: http://www.newscorpse.com/ncWP/?p=5661)

      • Gregg

        Punishing the rich will not improve one iota the lives of these protesters. It’s class envy. Have you heard Obama’s rhetoric?

        • Anonymous

          It isn’t about punishing the rich.  You can’t have a stable society with such an income disparity.  Social mobility is becoming a myth and if people stop believing in that, there will be more unrest. 

          • Gregg

            That’s the rub. People are being wrongly convinced they are helpless victims in need of government intervention to bring about equal outcome. We all have equal opportunity but it takes a little discipline and gumption to take advantage of.

          • Anonymous

            We don’t really have equal opportunity in practice.  Even compared to Europe our social mobilty rates are low. 

          • Gregg

            I disagree but that’s cool. Social mobility rates are an indication of who takes advantage of their opportunities not the existence of them.

          • nj

            Greggg seems to think that laws, regulations, political influence of vested economic interests have nothing to do with an individual’s opportunity to advance.

            Economic mobility is higher in Scandinavia than the U.S., by the way.

          • Gregg

            You are not a good mind reader.

          • nj

            Kind of tough when the page appears blank.

          • Gregg

            Good one, it’s just that I don’t believe what you claim I believe. You raise a good point but it works both ways. How many jobs did Obamacare kill? It’s better to get really good at something and work hard. Government is not the answer every time.

          • Greggless

            Tell me, how many jobs?  

          • Anonymous

            @327b60c55221432e499267aebfb70c09:disqus  @ec87cceeca835fed2aaf1fd44f8b3700:disqus  Gregg, who here is claiming that government is always the answer? [Red Herring!]
            Since the only parts of “Obamacare” that are in effect now are prohibitions on the insurance companies against discrimination against preexisting conditions, etc. and allowing college graduates to remain on their parents’ policies for a few years, just how many jobs could that affect?

            What Gregg is trying to imply is that employers are refusing to make money today because they are afraid that health costs will go up and cost them money in three years? An astute employer KNOWS that healthcare costs were on a steep ramp up before the PPACA passed. While it is true that the PPACA does not do enough to rein in the growing cost rate, there is no credible analysis that shows that it could affect jobs TODAY.

          • Gregg

            The OWSers are demanding the government solve their problems. I’m not making it up. I’ve seen estimates as high as 1.6 million jobs lost from Obamacare but I don’t think it’s possible to measure how many jobs that could be won’t be because of the disincentive it imposes on employers.

          • Greggless

            If there was a mind worth reading…

          • nj

            Yes, it was all the fault of African Americans for not taking advantage of “opportunities” for most of the history of the country.

            Are you trying to sound idiotic on purpose? 

          • Gregg

            Dude, that’s history. Obama is president now, he did fine. So did Oprah.

          • Greggless

            Just because of the two ‘O’s’ doesn’t mean its history.  Get a clue.

          • nj

            : : : Whoooooshhhhhhhhhhh… : : : 

            The sound of the point sailing by Greggg.

          • Greggless

            For Gregg, ‘social mobility’ indicates one refused to answer the door when opportunity knocked.

          • Gregg

            Quit stalking me.

          • Anonymous

            Read some history. If the percentage of wealth keeps growing and it’s controlled by the top 1% there will be civil unrest or worse.
            You keep using typical right wing rhetoric and mendacious comments. 

          • Gregg

            Civil unrest because of envy. 

          • Greggless

            Good one – unrest because of envy

          • Leary77

            You mean like the 50 year old who is let go after 20 years of service with benefits gone and the job market essentially closed to him or her? 
            Perhaps, Gregg, you could  start an advice column on where to apply this  discipline and gumption?   Moving South and picking corn 10 hours a day?  
            Being a Herman Cain syncophant is a cop-out for  doing the hard work of contributing to a just society by demanding accountability of the new breed of robber barons. Just for starter

          • Gregg

            Tragic, but it’s not the fault of the rich. BTW, I live in the South and have spent much time in the fields. Have you ever been given a hoe and pointed to 10 acres of cabbage. I have, it builds character.

          • Greggless

            Tragic – you would think a ‘built character’ would be evident

          • Leary77

            Were you fifty years old with a famiy to support?  Did the hoe providers give you health care also?
            Not the fault of the  rich may be true.  No quibbles with being rich.  Just don’t get  there by playing with my retirement money.  Or expecting to be bailed out with our tax money.  Or give yourself megabonus’ for poor job performance.  Or hike my insurance premiums while paying CEO $11,000,000. 
            Your simplistic solutions to complex issues  are childlike.

          • Greggless

            For Gregg, being in a lesser class is just a matter of perception and gumption

          • Gregg

            Quit stalking me.

        • nj

          In Greggg’s view, prosecuting corporate and financial entities that engaged in fraud, regulating the system to prevent future abuses, and requiring those who have benefited the most from the commons to pay a fair share of their profits amounts to “punishment.”

          Could there be a more blatant example of the moral bankruptcy of what passes for conservative ideology?

          • Gregg

            Actually that’s not even close to what I think or wrote.

          • Greggless

            Gregg is usually not so sure about what he thinks or writes.

          • Gregg

            Please don’t tell me what my view is. Prosecute any proven illegality. I’m all about it.

        • Greggless

          Punishing us with your inane opinions doesn’t further your rhetoric one iota.

        • Anonymous

          @327b60c55221432e499267aebfb70c09:disqus  So punishing a rapist will not improve the life of the raped woman one iota (with the exception that she can take some comfort in the knowledge that the perpetrator will be suffering also) so the expense of bringing the perpetrator to justice can be avoided?

          When does it become rational to leave the perpetrators of a fraud on the world to be free to repeat their actions?

          Is this a philosophy that applies only when the perpetrator is wealthy?

          Class envy is the least of the OWS’s concerns. They just want a more balanced set of opportunities to work hard and succeed in life. But throwing “class envy” is one of your typical “red herrings” to distract from the real subject here.

          • Gregg

            I don’t understand your analogy. I advocate the death penalty for rapist. I also say prosecute any fraud but are all people making over 250K “perpetrators of a fraud on the world”?

      • Gregg

        As to ACORN, they sure are freaking out and shredding documents for some reason. 

        • nj

          Greggg’s cluelessness deepens. There is no ACORN.

          • Gregg

            And now there are no documents.

          • nj

            What are you doing here? You should be writing your representatives to start a Congressional investigation. This is obviously a pressing national issue.

          • Gregg

            I did that last year.

          • Greggless

            The results of your actions probably as ineffectual as your comments here

          • Greggless

            There’s plenty of documentation on this site recording your relentless diversions.

        • Greggless

          The only acorn on this comment board is the nutty guy Gregg squirreling away his off-topic tidbits for winter.

          • Gregg

            OWS is a big deal, you may have missed it. Quit stalking me.

    • Leary77

      Your world view is as skewed and false as your propagandist source.
      The truth matters, Gregg. 

    • Anonymous

      Rather than repeatedly pick at proverbial nits, why don’t you tell us  your theory as to why 80% of the gain created by our economy since 1979 has gone to the top 1%, or why the decreased income shares of the bottom 80% directly mirrors the gains in income shares realized by the top 1% over the same period? 

      It’s not a matter of fairness, it’s a matter of function, if not actual survival.  No democratic market economy can survive with this sort of disparity.

      • TFRX

        Jimino,

        What’s the last thing a conservative economist says before drowning crossing a stream?

      • Anonymous

        I’m still waiting.  There’s got to be an explanation on one of the news sites you cite.  Or you can think about it and give me your personal opinion.

        • Gregg

          Apologies for not staring at my computer hitting refresh every 30 seconds but I have a life.

          You are implying the rich got rich at the expense of the poor. Not true. I am not concerned with how much money anyone has, it does’t affect my life. I see no problem with concentration of wealth and have yet to hear one articulated that wasn’t based in jealousy. 

          • Anonymous

            I’m not implying it.  I’m saying that’s what the facts clearly show, your personal super-mini-micro economic perspective notwithstanding.   My objection is not based on jealousy.  It’s based on the contention that a free market economy can not survive, let alone prosper, with such disparity.  So now you have heard an objection not based on jealousy, and you would hear a lot more if you paid proper attention.

          • Gregg

            How do the facts show that? Specifically.

          • Greggless

            You probably see now problem with being a king or king maker either, how would that effect little ol’ you?

          • Terry Tree Tree

            THE QUESTION WAS ABOUT CRIMES!!
                Fraud, Misrepresentation, Embezellment, and LOTS of others!

          • Gregg

            Jimino did not mention crimes. Crimes should obviously be prosecuted.

    • Greggless

      Your sidetracking comments reveal the insecurity of your positions

  • Terry Tree Tree

    How can anyone that claims to be a true Christian, support the Republican Hypocrites.  They continually cut, or try to cut ANY assistance to children and families, while roaring anti-abortion!!
         This shows the true morals of both groups!!

  • Terry Tree Tree

    The GREEDY rich have repeatedly called for SACRIFICE, while lining their own pockets with the SACRIFICE of the middle-class and poor!!
        From the FIRST time each has called for SACRIFICE, did they, who can afford it MOST, make the MOST SACRIFICE?  Or are they just GREEDY HYPOCRITES?

    • Anonymous

      @fa0bc679d4cba4c097672d7e5c15d631:disqus  From Ayn Rand:

      “It only stands to reason that where there’s sacrifice, there’s someone collecting the sacrificial offerings. Where there’s service, there is someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice is speaking of slaves and masters, and intends to be the master.”

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Interesting quote!!  Since so many Republicans claim to follow Ayn Rand!!

  • Terry Tree Tree

    Have the leaders in Greece made bigger SACRIFICES, than those they are imposing sacrifices on?  They HAVE more, they have more they can sacrifice!

    • Anonymous

      @fa0bc679d4cba4c097672d7e5c15d631:disqus  The Greeks got into trouble mainly because they did not enforce their tax laws and the rich now mostly evade paying taxes. But the previous government did not let that stop them from increasing social spending or change their tax collection efforts.

      The current government found the hidden accounting, which was aided by investment banks, notably Goldman Sacks, when they were elected last fall. This government has taken strong steps to change the tax collection problem and has implemented reductions in spending that have, by causing the Greek economy to shrink, reduced the ability of the government to pay its debts. The deficit is growing even faster as revenue is decreasing faster, due to reduced personal income, than spending is decreasing, with devastating consequences for the Greek populace, many of which are not responsible for the problem.

      The big problem for the Eurozone is that the French and German banks that were big lenders to the Greek government were put on shaky ground by their lending practices since the initiation of the Euro, to Spain, Ireland, Iceland, etc. where they lent money to real estate speculation which cratered after Lehman Bros. went bankrupt. Thus the Germans and French cannot see making those banks go under with a Greek default, but do not have the money to back it all.

      But the European Central Bank could take up the role ALL central banks have assumed since the nineteenth century when the Bank of London saved the British economy; see:

      http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/delong119/English

  • Terry Tree Tree

    HOW MANY  of the men involved in anti-abortion actions, have caused a child that was un-wanted by the mother, and walked away? 
       We men have a responsibility for our actions, especially the children!  Making laws that punish the VICTIM, of lies, of rape, of incest, of accidents, is just WRONG!!

  • nj

    And, now, for a look at some stories that should be getting some attention, or, perhaps an entire show of their own, but probably won’t even be mentioned. Don’t want to seem too “liberal.” And gotta leave room for the important stuff like Polish plane landings…
    Idiot Republicans voting to ban an EPA rule that doesn’t exist:http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/house-panel-to-vote-on-phantom-epa-dust-rule/2011/10/26/gIQAFNJ0MM_story.html
    $1 trillion spent on military hardware of dubious value since 2001:

    http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/11/military-trillion-dollar-weapons-spending?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+motherjones%2Fmain+%28MotherJones.com+Main+Article+Feed%29

    Judge dismisses pending lawsuits against BP, Transocean; likely shifts oil spill costs to taxpayers:

    http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2011/06/18/unbelievable-courts-rule-taxpayers-bp-transocean-liable-gulf-oil-spill-clean-costs-29071/

    30 major corporations: $160 billion profits, zero income taxes in last three years:

    http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/11/03/360185/30-corporations-no-taxes/

    • Drew You Too

      Nice!

      :’)

      • nj

        Thanks! Maybe i’ll do a weekly installment.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Please?!

  • Rob (in NY)

    Here is a good exchange with Ken Langone (founder of Home Depot) Andrew Ross Sorkin, and others on CNBC Sqwuack Box this AM regarding economic equality.  I especially like Langone’s comments about the OWS protestors (starting at about 3:30) defining the OWS folks as “Babies in Adult Bodies”.    Outside of his blunt comments, this is a good exchange regardless of your political views.    

    http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000055516

    • Greenbourn

      The puppet masters are worried big time, because OWS is about “injustice” and not about a single issue which can be brushed aside or discredited easily, and it does not have a singular leadership which can be targeted and decapitated thus stopping the movement in its tracks.  That is why the captive media is huffing and puffing, trying to find the movement’s Achilles heel but instead ends up adding fuel to the fire.  I understand that Henry Kissinger himself, the architect of this geopolitical global mess, worried that the resulting social injustices could(/would?) lead to “cataclysmic” consequences.  The global nature of the economic malaise and the internet leave few places for the perpetrators to hide.  Installing black presidents is a strategy to implicate the economically most disadvantaged strata of the society in the power structure and thus transfer, or at least dilute the blame and any consequential retributions.  Perhaps that is why next to Bush, Obama looks like a stool pigeon with his influence wings clipped to ensure that he doesn’t spoil the party.  Which in itself is a puzzler, because you would think that a human parasite would have enough sense  to disengage periodically to allow the host to recover and no one would be the wiser.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        The GREEDY rich parasites will gladly kill the host, believing that they will survive and control what is left.  If they all died of their GREEDY excesses first, the world wouldn’t have to go through the waste, and subsequent LONG recovery!
             Hopefully a virus that ONLY affects the GREEDY, will incapacitate them, so the 99.9% worldwide can progress. 
             Where is God?

  • Terry Tree Tree

    Solyndra, accused of losing a half-$Billion Dollars of public money, is being investigated, and castigated.
         OVER $24 $BILLION DOLLARS  of U.S. taxpayer money was ‘unaccounted for’ by the ‘W’ Bush administration in Iraq, and Afghanistan, and I have heard of NO SUCH investigation, by the same people in Congress and the Senate!!!   WHY??

    • chuck

      Did congress investigate the Rumsfeld’s missing $2/3/4? trillions of Pentagon money around 9/11?

      • Terry Tree Tree

        NOT that I have heard or read!!
            Interesting that Congress now is mostly Republican, and claims the Moral High-Ground!   Yet CRIMES committed by Republicans are NOT  on their list of things to investigate, much less prosecute!!

  • Terry Tree Tree

    If Congress doesn’t provide for infrastructure improvements, to dangerous bridges, tunnels, overpasses, etc…, the ones that are against upgrades are responsible for the deaths, injuries, and losses, if any of them fail!!

    • JustSayin

      They do provide stunning amounts of money for the beltway and the surrounding area.  Ever been to Washington DC and its surrounding wealthiest counties in the nation. You will NEVER hit a pothole in Fairfax county.

      Congress doesn’t give a damn about the rest of the country, because they don’t represent the country…the people, they provide legislation and funding for Wall St. and Corporations… Its no accident that corporations are now considered people who have no limit to their individual rights to campaign funding (AKA Kickbacks).

      If any of the 99% of what they consider national human garbage die in a bridge collapse, then that’s just more trash flushed down the river.

      • Kathy

        I used to live in Montgomery County and that’s quite correct, but given my state and local taxes, I don’t think it was the feds ponying up for that. DC roads are a disaster if you get out of the rich politico enclaves.

    • William

      Then why did the funding not happen 2.5 years ago with the 1st spending program? Why wait till now?

      • TFRX

        Our infrastructure has taken over the last decade or so. We’re currently saying “take that, Namibia!”  per the World Economic Forum.

        Lemme guess, you’re also one of the ones saying the stimulus (the half that wasn’t tax cuts) was too big, and now you’re “just asking questions” about why those dollars can’t have been spent in more than one place at once.

        This is not new.

        • William

          It just seems silly for the President to demand another 60 billion dollars for “roads” when he got the money in his 1st round of funding..then later joked about it being “shovel ready”….we just don’t have the money….

          • TFRX

            Then tell all those Teabagger approved politicians that their stimulus funds have to go back to Washington.

            Yes, one joke by one person proves your whole point.

            I’ll put my knowledge above your anecdote any day of the week.

          • William

            Other than you jab at the TEA (Taxed Enough Already) Party, I did not get much out of your post.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Immediate, ‘Shovel Ready’ projects WERE done, or ARE being done!  That was the only way to get pressure put on the Republicans, who WASTED $44 $Million, to ostensibly save $16 Million on small airport support!!      
            That’s Conservative??

        • William

          Obama just authorized 20 million dollars to a company in Pakistan to produce Sesame Street there?…is that really a good project? 20 million dollars?….

      • Anonymous

        @0aeb1c67f759dc0e24a92a5eb0bf6a0b:disqus  The funding of 2.5 years ago was spent (or the tail end is being spent now) on projects that were even more important or closer to approval. There are over $1 trillion worth of infrastructure refurbishment NECESSARY as defined by the civil engineering society, more than what the whole ARRA had money for if it had all gone for that (which would have been a better stimulant).
        A lot of economists said at the time that the ARRA was grossly underfunded at the time it was passed.

  • Anonymous

    Herman Cain’s new slogan: SWINE SWINE SWINE

  • Ed

    I agree with tree – the end of abortion also involves a dramatic change in behavior by men.

    • Leary77

      One would hope that is so, Ed.  Sadly, outlawing abortion will not end  all abortion.  Desperate people do desperate things including seeking out back alley abortions with the  serious risks involved. And the well-connected will find ways to obtain safe abortions. 
      Education and effective birth control  along with accountability and identification of men who “father” these may help.

      • TFRX

        Effective birth control? The anti-choicers have been after that for years.

        The non-desparate will just “vacation in Switzerland” or “take a trip upstate”.

        Ah, the ’50s were great, weren’t they? People were so much more moral.

        (Disclaimer for last bit: I wasn’t there then. And I am kidding.)

        • Terry Tree Tree

          I WAS there!  Horror stories of “abortions”, were quite frequent!  I had a vasectomy, after our second child, because their mother had such a hard time delivering.  We figured we could adopt, if we could see how to afford, and wanted more children.  She later left us, and I have enjoyed the benefits of not worrying about starting more children, for over thirty years!

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Thanks Ed.  That seems a BIG departure from your usual Catholic stance!

  • Ed

    There is a new English Mass translation that comes into effect on the first Sunday of Advent, the end of November. It’s the largest change in the Mass in English since the end of the Vatican Council.

    Starting on November 16th there is a series called ‘Catholicism’ by Father Barron that (in ten parts) goes around the globe and gives a good introduction and overview of Catholicism for anyone interested. Beautiful travelogue also.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Does it address the blatant HYPOCRACY  of the Catholics that denounce homosexuality, while supporting, hiding, and committing crimes HOMOSEXUAL PRIESTS, and molesting priests?

  • Rob (in NY)

    Although I am not a huge fan of this Administration, I will give them some credit for not appointing Jon Corzine as Treasury Secretary.   Some highlights of RF Global’s actions from the news:

    1) Leveraging itself more than 35 to 1 to make huge bets on Greek and Euro debt, increasing these  bets throughout the summer (while others started mitigating this risk), and purchasing them from European banks such as Banque Paribas who are in the best position to know these assets are toxic

    2) Window dressing at quarter end.   While not illegal in and of itself, this means taking consistent actions to reduce debt at quarter end when  reporting the company’s results and balance sheet to public investors in SEC filings

    3) Using political clout to mislead regulators about the company’s risk level

    4) Potentially commingling customer accounts with the company’s proprietary capital, which is a violation of cardinal rule number one in finance.

    Looking at some of the news, one has to wonder what happened to Corzine’s brain, particularly if # 4 is true.  One has to wonder whether he sustained brain damage during his serious car accident several years ago.  I can not imagine Corzine, who would was Co- CEO of Goldman, would be foolish enough to have knowledge of comingling customer accounts with proprietary capital as this represents more than incompetenence and will almost to criminal prosecution if  true.   

      

    • Rob (in NY)

      Tom,  Speaking as a conservative, this RF Global news is a great case study regarding why financial instututions that are backed with a taxpayer guarantee (in the form of FDIC insurance) should never be able to trade their own propietary capital. It demonstates the need for a modern day Volcker Rule segragating proprietary trading from basic banking and some ovff Huntsmann’s proposals noting why Too Big TO Fail means to Big to Exist.      RF Global failed.  It was not too Big To Fail, did not involve any tax payer gaiurantees, and nobody who was not an investor in RF Global or employee at this company really cares.   

      • Rob (in NY)

        Mean MF GLobal of course

  • Anonymous

    Here’s a jobs proposal: train people in tree trimming and in wood stove installation — we’ll get more reliable electricity and get heat without adding carbon to the air; since the trees extracted the carbon from the air as they grow.

    Another idea would be to use electric chainsaws and limb chippers — these use far less energy than do gasoline powered units.  Since the work would be happening right next to power lines, this would seem to be easily workable.

    Neil

    • chuckg

      Even better idea – Buy “Made in USA” and lobby against military misadventures.  If it takes $9 billion to clean dead fish and barnicles from the ballast tanks of ships that transport products from offshored factories, do you know how much fuel these ships burn?  Here is a hint from George Bush’s task force on energy–To deliver 1 ton of cargo to Iraq consumed 14 tons of fuel.  Afghanistan and China are even further.

  • Mia

    What Jack said.  Yes!  That’s exactly a problem that a lot of people see.  This free market economy trumps democracy.  Nations are no longer sovereign.  I think that’s scary. 

  • Doggypeg

    Is it inevitable that Congress will reduce Social Security and Medicare benefits? If the Republicans insist on no new taxes and the Democrats are willing to cut Social Security, does that make the cuts inevitable? Can the Republicans and Democrats  (and the media) really convince the American people that the economic “playing field” is currently level and therefor equal sacrifice is demanded of all? Despite any number of studies showing an absolutely incredible explosion of wealth and income at the top and virtual stagnation of the middle and lower classes, at the same time that tax rates on the rich have fallen dramatically, our leaders apparently feel that this an equilibrium to be preserved.

  • JMC

    none of the Euro members were complaining when banks were posting suspicious profits, now they want to find a scapegoat, they are all guilty of not having a conscience when conducting business, they along with the rest of the financial industry are stubbornly moving forward without taking any accountability to their actions. Citizens have been paying the price for bad decisions for years without a bailout, turnabout is fair play.

  • Michiganjf

    Well, if you’re worried the U.S. economy has a future anything like that of Greece, Republicans have ONE answer for you:

    Keep putting as much wealth as possible in the hands of the wealthiest one percent… that will fix us up nicely!

    • Emjones
      • Michiganjf

        Emjones,

            the wealth distribution breakdown in your link is astounding enough, but some terrific journalism has lately emphasized this is only PART OF THE PICTURE…

        The remianing disparities shift America down to one of the WORST CASES IN THE WORLD, regarding disparity between rich and poor.

        Those other disparities include:

        -public education and access to higher education

        -access to health care, and especially adequate health care

        -nutrition, and the plethora of resulting effects (from health to learning ability)

        -access to reasonable transportation (cost AND locality)

        -reasonable geographic access to adequate goods and services (basically, by neighborhood)… this costs time AND equal opportunity

        The list goes on…. 

        • Michiganjf

          BTW,

             many are, of course, long aware of all these additional disparities, but much of the public is not, as the media tends to discuss ONLY the disparity in wealth.

          This makes it seem as though the only difference between rich and poor is hard work, with no regard to educational access and opportunity, inherited wealth (still the legacy of an era only a generation or two old, when the only favored were white and male), AND ALL THE OTHER FACTORS IN THE ABOVE POST, PLUS MORE….

          Republicans, however, would have the gullible believe that the bottom 50% can magically overcome all the disparities and somehow just get a good job and work hard, if only they would try.

  • Anonymous

    The Republicans have found a second innocent Black man in only 20 years.

  • Joe in Philly

    Brother Tom, you asked for comments, here you go:

    1. Greece will survive: Creditors will get soaked, Greece will go back to the drachma and Europe will revert to more of an Anglo-Saxon community. In the end, Germany will feel pain as their new “euro” will appreciate considerably and their mercantile state will feel pain. 

    2. The world is suffering from secular oversupply (labor, manufacturing capacity) and we are heading into a deflationary global economy with commodity inflation caused by Wall St speculators. The US Middle Class will be screwed (what’s new?).

    3. As for Cain, he is a clown and should “recuse” himself from the Republican race. 

    BTW, please do not play tapes of Anne Coulter, you are better than that.

    Regards from the City of Brotherly Love!

  • Drew You Too

    The thing that floors me about Cain is that it took these harassment charges to begin to knock him off his pedestal. His stances and proposed “solutions” to the problems we face should have been more than enough to get him gonged off the stage. And why have the campaign financing improprieties faded so rapidly into obscurity? Makes me sad to say this but: Whatever it takes I guess, one down three to go.

  • Drew You Too

    Quit comparing Cain and Clinton, these comparisons are ridiculous. Consentual vs non consentual. Get a clue.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      Clinton had an affair, Cain forced women. i’m glad both of us understand but some people don’t.

      • BHA in Vermont

        allegedly.

        • Gregg

          I think Gennifer Flowers was pretty clear and had the tapes. Ditto Dolly Kyle Browning. Monica Lewinski was a kid enamored with Clinton’s power. She was humming him while he was on the phone discussing Bosnia policy.  There is testimony, it’s not alleged.

          • Greggless

            This naughty talk really gets you going Gregg

          • Gregg

            It’s not a laughing matter and I am sincerely sad you think it is.

      • Gregg

        Clinton is a serial abuser of women. We know that, we don’t know that Cain forced anything on anyone. If he did he’s toast. Clinton is still a hero. Go figure.

        • Greggless

          A ‘serial abuser’… in your dreams.

        • Brett

          Sure you aren’t thinking of Newt Gingrich?

          • TFRX

            Now, Brett, we can’t overlook that Newt’s an honest “values politician”.

            While legislating how the rest of us live our private lives, he had the moral fortitude to actually marry the mistress he left his cancer-bedridden wife for!

            That puts him a leg up on most of the “valuistas”.

          • Gregg

            Vacuous.

          • guest

            For Gregg to support Newt, he must run from the truth about Newt.

  • TFRX

    I don’t know what’s funnier about the Cain sexual harrassment scandal: That Ann Coulter may well represent the most respectable right-winger soundbyte available, or that Politico is a left-wing rag out to get a Republican.

  • http://en-gb.facebook.com/onanov Donald Baxter

    Republicans should remember that Democrats don’t elect candidates for high offices with some moral standard for sexual behaviour.  Any attempts to compare Herman Cain to Bill Clinton should fall flat on their face. We’re okay with horndogs as long as they don’t play to the legislate morality camp.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      Bill Clinton had an affair He did not force women to have sex with him. Cain forces women to have sex with him
       
      that is the big difference between Cain and Bill Clinton.

      • Gregg

        He dropped his drawers and told Paula Jones to “kiss it”. After he raped Juanita Broderick he told her she needs to put something on her bloody lip. He groped Kathleen Wiley when she sought help after her husband death. These are documented unlike the Cain “victims” who have yet to come forward. 

        • Greggless

          You would think you didn’t have a life with how often you’ve been diverting attention with your comments today.

          • Gregg

            FAX68 Wrote: “Bill Clinton had an affair He did not force women to have sex with him. Cain forces women to have sex with him”.

            That’s patently false, we don’t even know what Cain did and Clinton did far more than have an affair. Reckless comments like those should not go unchallenged.

    • Gregg

      That’s rich. Moral standards for sexual behavior are not a partisan matter. Can we not agree sexual assault is wrong no matter the party of the perpetrator? I think we should.

      • Greggless

        I wonder what moral standard the rich banksters have – must be better than those OWS hoodlums?

      • Brett

        Again, you seem to lack reading comprehension abilities and receptive language skills. I believe Mr. Baxter was referring to the hypocrisy of the Republican “moral standard.” …Sense your replies do not really reply to the comment, why not just make a general comment instead of a “reply” (and, remember, keep it simple, you don’t want to tax the expressive part of your communication skills set). 

        • Gregg

          Look Brett, I don’t agree with the premise. Republicans don’t want in your bedroom. They don’t proclaim they are morally superior. Democrats are moral to… I hope. I got the point but it’s built on a false premise.  I have a different view there is no need to be so nasty.

      • TFRX

        No matter the party? Not a partisan matter?

        Only one party is determined to insert government in my bedroom.

        Right wingers are mocked as “valuistas” for precisely the reasons you’re ignoring.

        • Gregg

          “Only one party is determined to insert government in my bedroom.”

          Urban myth. It’s a spoonfed meaningless talking point.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Again we agree!!  On BOTH points!  The biggest difference that I see, is that Republicans keep SHOUTING that THEY are the Moral Majority!!  Yet, MANY of their leaders, prove to have NO morals!!

  • Yar

    If Bill Clinton opened a door allowing sexual misconduct allegations to take a back seat in political choice, Monica Lewinsky closed it.  She proved we should take all allegations of sexual misconduct very seriously.

  • JMC

    why do supporters of the conservative candidates not call them to floor when they lie, it makes them look foolish. hiring the campaign advisor that was with Cain when this took place and stating they had no idea of this incident is a clear example.

  • BHA in Vermont

    Corzine pulled down over $4M while CEO at MF Global. Good thing he isn’t seeking his $12M severance pay.

    We have had enough of execs screwing up BIG, leaving the company in sad shape and walking away with a huge payout. Have to put that in the contract you know or you can’t get ‘good’ execs like Corzine. WHEN will corporate America figure out these people do not bring in ANYTHING close to their compensation.

    I would LOVE to see a federal law that makes golden parachutes illegal. The stock holders can do nothing. Clearly the “market” is so blinded by their own self importance that they will never consider the best interests of the corporation and its OWNERS, the stockholders, over their own near term financial interests.

    • Dave in CT

      Well, he’s a Democrat, so at least we know he meant well.

      At least they let the damn thing fail.

      Too bad the bigger boys are all still standing.

  • BHA in Vermont

    The FACTS are that MOST of the very rich create ZERO jobs other than maybe their pool boy, gardener and maid.

    The rich have been playing class warfare against the lower and middle class for generations.

    • TFRX

      I wouldn’t say ZERO.

      I would say that, right now, they’re not running around in need of capital to create more jobs. And bang for the buck-wise, they’re about 2000th on the list of “good places for a government to spend or un-tax its next dollar”.

      Concentrating on making them happy like this is akin to being broken down on the side of the road, pouring one gallon of wiper fluid into your car’s half-gallon washer fluid tank, and then expecting the car to start.

  • Joe in Philly

    Brothers, my understanding is that Frank Luntz coined the phrase “job creators.” If so, I nominate him for the Paul Joseph Goebbels Award for Excellence in Political Campaign Advertising. Do I have a second?

    • Kate

      Quit calling everyone “brother!” I’m a woman!

      • Joe in Philly

        Sister Kate, if I caused pain to even one sister, may I be smote from the face of the Earth! But, seriously, you need to lighten up. 

    • Terry Tree Tree

      I second that emotion!

  • Michiganjf

    Cain hasn’t shown ANY kind of astute political ability to brush off his embarrassing gaffes or questionable past… rather, CAIN’S FOLLOWERS are the ones who have shown an ability to care NOTHING about the quality of their candidate, and care only that their side wins no matter the cost to America.

  • Stillin

    It would be interesting to see what happens to an economy, if the average Joe, could buy any amount of stocks him or herself, ie. chatge some, write a check…etc. When the Groupon stocks were announced at 20.00 starting off this am. I thought, how ridiculous that that game is left to wall street. Why can’t the average person get into the game with their 20, 40, 60 bucks and then wouldn’t the economy change? Am I out of my mind? Why is the average Joe kept out of that game?

    • BHA in Vermont

      Because we might get some of the money! 

      Why is ‘after hours’ trading allowed?

      Why are banks and financial firms allowed to use computerized trading which analyzes stock prices every second and can buy millions of $$ of a stock one minute then sell it for a penny per share profit the next? When you start with that kind of money the pennies add up fast. Yet there is ZERO GDP associated with this ‘work’. Even if you taxed those ‘profits’ at 99.9%, they would still make millions.

      It is a rigged game. Stocks and bonds were SUPPOSED to be a way for companies to raise CAPITAL to run their businesses. People buy the stock because they think the business is sound. After that all the virtual paper moving between buyers and sellers has ZERO benefit to the company. But where is all the money being ‘made’? In trading virtual paper.

  • JMC

    where do you think Greece received the bank loans caller?
     

    • JMC

      U.S. institutions have a part in the euro default, it is no coincidence that Wallstreet freaks out each time there is a threat of a Greek default

    • CG

      Didn’t we read something a little while ago about GS helping Greece to hide their debt prior to joining the EU?

  • TFRX

    Shut down the (local) economy? Are we talking about OWS or the GOP?

    Voters are catching on to the GOP platform (“Run it to ruin it”) in at least one poll this week.

    “With 51 percent of voters saying that jobs and the economy are the most pressing issues in the nation today, 49 percent said they believe that the Republicans are intentionally hindering efforts to boost the economy so that President Barack Obama will not be reelected.”

    That includes over half of independents (52%) and almost a quarter of Republicans (24%).

    http://www.suffolk.edu/images/content/FINAL.day2.Florida.Statewide.Marginals.Oct.30.2011.pdf

  • Anonymous

    How can anyone take Herman Cain seriously. Forget about all this recent sexual harassment allegations. Cain’s lack of knowledge on most subjects that even a mayor of a large city should know is astounding. I love this one: China, said Cain is “trying to develop nuclear capability.”
    Ummm… the Chinese nuclear capability was out of the bag some 45 years ago. I don’t know about anyone else, but I kind of like my presidents to have some ability to parse the difficult aspects of how the world works. But hey, that’s just me.

    • Brett

      Give Mr. Cain a break! He can’t even remember sexually harassing women and the settlements those women were paid; how do you expect him to remember China’s history, jeffe?!?! I think it’s refreshing that he seems to know very little about world history/politics; he’ll be coming to the table with no pre-conceived notions!  

      • Gregg

        “Pre-conceived notions” like guilty until proven innocent?

        • Greggless

          Bored by ‘pre-conceived notions’ like yours all over this comment board.

        • Brett

          While I WAS being sarcastic, your reply sounds as though you haven’t a clue in what context I was using “pre-conceived notions.” I was pretending that Cain would be good at foreign affairs because he knows nothing about them…JEESH! 

          P.S.-Rob (from NY): Do you know any other intelligent conservatives you can invite to this forum?  

      • nj

        He’d fit right in with recent, Republican tradition.

        “This foreign policy stuff is a little frustrating.”

        —Shrub, N.Y. Daily News, 4/23/02

    • Gregg

      I think we should cut Cain a little slack considering some of the foreign policy mistakes Obama made during the campaign and continues to make. I don’t argue it wasn’t a stupid statement, however.

      One of many examples: In 2008 Obama pledged to take our ICBMs off of hair trigger alert which had been done 20 years prior. Does your problem with Cain have anything to do with him being a black conservative?

      • Greggless

        Beg the question again, please.

      • Brett

        Ah, the “two-wrongs-do-make-a-right”/”he-did-it-too” philosophies…I see. 

      • Anonymous

        Cut Herman Cain some slack? No sir I will not. He’s not running for city councilman, he’s trying to get nominated to become president.

        If he was a blue or green conservative I would still think he was unfit to become president. Obama has made some pretty good mistakes in the foreign policy arena however he did a lot of change our standing in the world after he was elected. Presidents are going to make mistakes, it’s human nature to do so and the job is, well one of the hardest on the planet in my opinion. He is at least extremely intelligent and a Constitutional scholar which I think goes a long way to giving anyone credentials to being president.

        As to your silly question about my comments about Cain and him being a black conservative, I can only say if he was as smart and well versed as Colin Powell or Condalisa Rice I would not being making the comments about this clown. Colin Powell, who’s record is not squeaky clean, but nonetheless I have a huge amount of respect for him even though I do not agree with his politics.

        If you think Herman Cain is presidential material you are very much mistaken. I could say the same for all the other clowns trying to get nominated by the GOP.

        • William

          I can you stand Obama? His associations with radical bomb throwers did not bother you? Rev. Wright?…none of that matters?..

          • Anonymous

            Try using some sentence structure. Your comment is nothing but red herrings and hot air.

          • William

            Difficult to type when sitting on a bus….your lack of response is so typical of a liberal…faced with the facts about Obama you run for cover…are you not ashamed of voting for a guy that attended a very racist church for years?…years!….then his buddy Ayers…the big bomb thrower himself…yes..Obama is your dream President…no dirt in his background huh?…

        • Gregg

          You’re right. Herman’s a big boy on the big stage. I do however think he is Presidential material and don’t consider that gaffe a disqualifier. I can’t imagine Condoleezza Rice or Colin Powell being able to keep up with Cain on jobs, the economy and taxes. It’s not their bag, it’s not a matter of intelligence.

          • Anonymous

            It was not Eisenhower’ bag either, nor Fords, Nixon’s or Clinton’s.
            The fact that he was a lobbyist and was a CEO does not mean the man is fit to be President. His lack of knowledge and the ability to at least make an attempt learn about the world beyond his small sphere is lacking. He’s not fit to be President, period. Powell and Rice are not only smart they know how to deal with foreign policy, and in Powell’ case the military. Presidents do not create jobs, they get blamed for the economy but it’s Congress that passes and makes laws that pertain to this mess we are in.

            If you think being President is not a matter of intelligence you are very much mistaken. 

          • Gregg

            No, I don’t agree that Cain is not intelligent nor do I think your description of his “ability to make an attempt” is accurate. I guess you missed my point about Powell and Rice. You are entitled to your opinion but I am not moved by you proclamation: “He’s not fit to be President, period”.

    • Rob (in NY)

      I rarely agree with your comments, but  Cain increasingly seems like a sad joke to me as well and yet another man not qualified for the Presidency.  Call me old fashioned, but I prefer that any candidate for Presidency:

      1) Have prior executive  or significant federal legislative experience (whether in government or the prvate sector);  

      2) Unless he or she is a Dwight Eisenhower type or a former Secretary of State, the Presidency should not be the first office a person is seeking;

      3) Be able to articulate a foreign policy, which represents well over 60% of the President’s job.  I would be able to forgive Cain’s reference to China if it involved just mispeaking by saying  “develop nuclear capability” vs. “enhance its nuclear capability” if this was a one off comment.  However, every time Cain says anything about foreign policy, he sounds like a complete fool.  Hell, I can better articulate a foreign policy simply by reading the WSJ and NY Times without any campaign preparation.      

      • Gregg

        I beginning to think the same about Cain although I support Newt anyway. I am not one who criticized Obama for lack of executive experience (private or public) because I don’t think it is the most important factor. As President one is influenced from every direction with tremendous pressure. Also, the power is very intoxicating. I am more concerned with someone being grounded with core principles and the ability draw upon them in times of peril. That is one reason a religious President doesn’t bother me despite my not being a Christian. Cain appears to have that going for him but the jury is still out.

        • Greggless

          wishy washy mushy mind

        • Anonymous

          A religious president terrifies me.  Bush thought he knew all the answers . . .   I dismissed it during the campaign, but now I think Obama did lack management skills.  He was too influenced by Geithner et al. 

          Romney was a bishop in his church but doesn’t appear to be grounded with core principles. 

          • Gregg

            I get that but so many things come down to faith one way or another. Gotta have faith in something.

        • JustSayin

          Newt The paragon of Christian values: http://www.realchange.org/gingrich.htm

          Is this how faith works? Why aren’t Clinton and Gingrich held to the same level of contempt?

          If one is a Democrat and Christian then everything is remembered and nothing is forgiven, If a Republican and Christian , and everything is forgotten, and everything is forgiven. 

      • Brett

        I agree with your comment; I want these qualities in a candidate. Oh, and thanks for your participation in this forum! 

        • InTheory

          Nice set of requirements in theory.  So how did Obama and Bush get elected again?
           

  • Nothing new under the sun

    Did anyone hear Mr. Bernanke’s answer to the question about income inequality?  He said it was jobs, but since this problem, as well as the ability to be upwardly mobile in this country, has been going downhill for 40 years even when times were good, I think he really has no solution. It is a joke when I listen to Herman Cain and the others talk about getting their America back, they’ ve never lost it. Yelling about government interferring with business while never admitting that business interfers with government on such a huge scale that there is no such thing as an independant politician and groups such as Americans for Prosperity are the real powers behind every debate and law. Business has  no interest in anyone’s individual rights anymore than Conservatives do when they talk about  being concerned about one group of Americans being set against another.  Noone knows how to get Americans hating each other like conservative business and media groups. The groups that want their America back have perfected do as I say not as I do to a high art form. 

  • Anonymous

    How did Goldman Sacks factor into it? Why does it seem to pop up everywhere there is something bad going on?

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      Corzine resigns from MF Global

      • Dave in CT

        A Democrat. Goldman Sachs. Yawn.  Boy those evil Republicans did it again. 

        Can someone spin this please? I almost think the whole system is corrupt and run by a lawless elite. 

    • Sachsamaphone

      That’s why they call it ‘Government Sachs’ – “no conspiracy here”…

      http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/19/business/19gold.html

  • Michael Sacco

    the drug dealer reference was spot on. Two words  DUE DILIGENCE!

  • Heinz

    The big news of the week was the fact that President was subpoenaed over his Solyndra ties.

    Secretary of D.H.S., Janet Napolitano, testified in front of a House committee over her role in operation Fast and Furious.

    And of course, Tom Ashbrook decided to ignore those issues. 

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      I saw a special report on Fast and Furious

      my big question how come a container full of automatic rifles can be purchased by the Cartel without the Feds stopping that van.

      There are tons of marijuana confiscated where are they? some are burn but you cannot burn 20 freight containers in a day.

      • HoleyBorders

        That’s what NAFTA was all about – so drugs, weapons and people could pour through our almost non-existent borders.  Except don’t ‘you’ try anything – we have our eye on ‘you’.

    • Catchup

      And dozens of others.  Don’t be so partisan.  NPR is MSM.  We’ll let you know what we want you to know.  Corruption is not pervasive and systemic it’s just they way we roll.  Now put those pitchforks and torches away and go back to sleep.

  • Gregg

    So, Cain’s settlement was signed when? 9/99 of course. It’s true.

    • Greggless

      Which settlement?

      • Gregg

        Sorry, I stand corrected: Severance.

  • Dee

    Greeks are right to refuse others dictating terms to them from the
    outside. Their debt should be excused or put off for another time
    or they should pull out of EU…Otherwise, they will cease to be a
    democracy-governed essentially by the financial class and a pluto-
    cracy– that will gut the middle class to preserve their own status
    and wealth…

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

    The American economy per Bernanke will still be unstable for another 2 years more. 80,000 new hire only for the Holiday seasons or temporary employees.

    Greece DOOM there’s nothing we can do or the world next country is Spain.

  • Dee

    A note to Tom Ashbrook….

    I appreciate your efforts on a regular bases to remain neutral in most
    arguments but there is no remaining neutral when it comes to the GOP obstructionists in the US Congress today…There obstruction borders
    on the immoral….They policies gutted this economy and now they are
    refusing to bring it relief….

    All the data is there –the public does not want them protecting the
    rich at the expense of struggling Americans today. Plus, their approach to Obama’s efforts to help struggling Americans has been shocking call-ous. …

    They haven’t done a thing to help struggling Americans since the Finan-
    cial downturn in 2008 …And they will never live this down as a party–Esp. among young American and Latinos and Black Americans who are most affected by their “do nothing” policies today….

    Thus I feel it is a bit disengenous for you to say “..doesn’t anyone (party) want to do anything to help the American people….”  You shouldn’t be afraid to call a spade a spade as one of your female
    and call out the apologists as Paul Krugman pointed out today in
    his NYT …And as one of your female caller also pointed out to you
    today…How the GOP is out to prevent Obama’s re-election bid and
    thus don’t give a damn about the American people…(It is like having
    an abusive  neglectful parent in my book-the parent maybe at home
    but doesn’t attend to the needs of those under their care…In cases
    like this in the real world the parent would lose custory of their young.
    ) Dee

    P.S. Perhaps Jack Beatty needs to help you out more with some
    cover. Yet, you can’t be like the NYT during the Bush Era -waiting
    for the body bags to come back before proclaiming which side you
    are on…The Occupy Movement should give you cover there, too.

    Oligarchy, American style…Paul Krugman , New York Times….
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/04/opinion/oligarchy-american-style.html?_r=1&hpw

    • chuckg

      “[Their] (GOP) obstruction borders on the immoral.”

      Me thinks, recollecting my history lessons, that our founding fathers would have considered such an action a treason, or even a high treason.  In the very least, putting party interests above nation’s interests is un-American.  I seem to recall that that was the hallmark of the card carrying soviet communist, particularly prior to WWII.  WWII awakened Russian national sentiments which caused the unwinding of the soviet communism (trip down=trip up).  Perhaps, if we can re-awaken our national sentiments, than we will be able to shake off American Feudalism in about 40 years. 

      • Dave in CT

        Hmmmm. $14,000,000,000,000.00 debt, world in a debt crisis, and declaring “no more spending without equal cuts” is treason?

        Because Krugman’s Keynesian approaches of debt spending and money printing to manage our economy to the promised land have worked so well over the recent decades.

        If you can’t see that people can honestly disagree about propping up the demand levels of the last bubble, or letting prices just find more sustainable levels that meet honest demand, and not Fed-bubble false demand,  you need to reexamine your morality question.

        You can see how the self-righteous left might so easily tend toward totalitarian approaches, to force us all to see, and live in, the world their way.

        When the country is split 50/50 pretty much, you know neither one really has the sustainable and peaceful answer. 

        The country is 50/50, and yet you want to claim 99%.

        I’m sure much higher numbers are outraged at the Wall St./Government collusion that brought us down, but to claim that Obama’s approach is so clearly correct, and the only way to act on that outrage and the elite lawlessness problem seems ludicrous.

        http://www.thefreemanonline.org/headline/diversity-ends-rules/

        • Anonymous

          I agree that housing prices shouldn’t be propped up but the government needs to spent stimulate economic demand as there isn’t enough consumer demand.  Without that, businesses are not going to spend and hire with the cash they are sitting on.  With the costs of borrowing so low, this is the perfect time to fix our long neglected infrastructure.  Prices for food, oil, and other resources are not going to go down as global demand is rising. 

          99% is about wealth distribution not political affiliation.  People often vote against their own economic interest due to ignorance or conservative social values.  Many of the 999 supporters would actually end up paying more. 

          • Dave in CT

            Also I have no problem going after the lawless financial elite and politicians who granted them lawlessness with there discretionary disdain for the Rule of Law, for treason.

          • Dave in CT

            And that pesky debt?  Mathematically, at some point, it doesn’t matter how valid a Keynesian argument is or isn’t, the debt becomes such a monster, the interest alone will bury us.  Just because we wish things were easier or solvable without sacrifice, doesn’t make them so. Take all the wealth from all the wealthy by force. It won’t stop the debt.

            At some point, if the companies have all this cash, refusing to pump it into the economy, Henry Ford style, becomes a self-destructive event. I think self-preservation would lead to some changes. But using this episode to consolidate government size or power can easily be seen as a cynical move by those who want a more socialist/statist flavor to our economy. 
            The destruction of the dollar would be a calamitous event, and likely lead to the final co-option of all power by the elite who have taken us this far for a ride.

          • Anonymous

            The debt is a long term problem which is better addressed if revenues from a robust economy are again flowing.  Making cuts now is not going to help.

        • Anonymous

          No more spending without equal cuts isn’t treason, it’s just stupid at best and dishonest at worst.  Nobody, not even Krugman, is arguing that we don’t need to address the long term debt and deficit problems.  What we are repeatedly arguing is that massive government spending cuts in a recession is wrong headed and will worsen the recession.  Even the Republicans believe government spending creates jobs, their rhetoric notwithstanding, as you can see by their scramble to get government money for projects in their constituencies.

          We are arguing that the best way to reduce the debt and deficit is to increase revenues by putting people back to work!  We are arguing that long term we need to invest in infrastructure, in scientific research, in education, that the US cannot remain competitive in the future without that. And we are arguing that there is already wealth distribution, but the system is built to distribute wealth to the very top.  The question is do we want a society where there is real economic mobility, where you can have a reasonable hope that hard work can mean that you have a better life than your parents?  ‘Cause we don’t have that now, and we’ve got here through massive deregulation, a dismantling of unions, and a tax code that favors the rich.  (Which leads me as well to say, WTF?  We haven’t had a Keynesian approach for the last few decades.  It’s been nothing but deregulation and tax cuts for the last few decades.)

          • Anonymous

            Good points. People like Dave wont believe you even if you can prove it to them with rock solid evidence. Why? Because they don’t care about facts or truth. They only care about their agenda.
            We have had nothing but a loosening of regulations and a stark spike in income disparity for over 30 years and yet it’s still the Keynesian economic ideas that are blamed for everything including Dave’s burnt morning toast. 

            People on the right love to demonize Paul Krugman and Robert Reich.
            What’s interesting is that when confronted with real questions about the economy they only try to go back to scripted talking points.
            Instead of coming up with real facts to support the allegations being made. Smoke and mirrors, that’s all it is.

          • Dave in CT

            And you hold Nobel Laureate A.F. Hayek in such high regard? Can you even speak to what his views and nobel prize in economics ideas were?

            I’m a registered Democrat. I already know the Krugman and Reich viewpoints. I nodded in perfect, “of course!” agreement for years. I  voted for Nader twice I think. I swallowed Clinton believing, “well deep down, he’s got our best interests in mind”. I even succumbed to the hope and change vibe, and thought we were going to have health care round tables and no more sticking to party dogma…..

            When all that STILL delivered what we have (wasn’t surprised about Bush’s contributions), I just couldn’t accept the faith in the D party anymore.  

            So I started reading alot of other perspectives and trying to think about what those positions say/said/would relate, to the events and policies that led up to our crisis.

            When I did that, I think when anyone does that, I realized there is no way the Democratic party or DNC political-economic model (whatever that is supposed to be), was honest and sustainable, just as I never thought the mainstream GOPs was.   Crony capitalism and Centralized management of our economy for possibly good intentions, and definitely shady intentions.

            I have done things from landscaping to carpentry to working in a grocery store to neurobiology research.  I have more faith in the people I have seen along the way, regardless of party, than I do of the “elite” (don’t know what else to call them) in Washington, Corporate America and the media, whether they are well-intentioned but just blundering fools, genius technocrats who are too intellectual for the real world, or simple corrupt favor traders.

            So, I am favoring more power to the people, less to the elite. And to me, a more libertarian approach, backed by a strong rule of law to punish malefactors in our lives or our markets, is looking like the route to get there.

            While I can appreciate Krugman, I also appreciate Hayek, and I do not want us to go toward a more Centralized power model, because we think that is the only way to “plan our way to prosperity” or to prevent abuses of capitalism.  I think thats a false choice, and that history has shown, and is showing, that it rarely is successful.

          • Alan in NH

            I appreciate your journey, and certainly agree with your emphasis on rule of law. But who is to enforce such rules against massive international corporations if not big governments with a lot of power to do so. Wasn’t that the theory behind TR’s trust-busting? You couldn’t count on the states or small localities to do that; they didn’t have the money or the scope of authority. Wasn’t the purpose of the ICC to regulate affairs too big and comprehensive for individual states to handle? So my argument with the libertarians is that I don’t see them proposing any countervailing power that opposes the possibly corrupt mega-business.

          • Dave in CT

            Thanks for the response Alan.

            Obama isn’t trust-busting, calling for trust-busting, nor upholding a rule of law against his banking supporters.

            To me the biggest problem is we as the people, have failed in participating in our self-goverenance.  Only if we appreciate the relationship between liberty  and the rule of law, and remain vigilant about it, can we realize it in the people we elect as representatives, and in holding them accountable to legislating and executing that law, as we demand.

            That should work.

            Instead, we have just handed over our governance to “the government” and to technocrats and unelected, unaccountable finance groups.

            So IMO, we are faced with re-assuming our responsibilities, or giving up on the experiment in liberty and self-governance, because we just can’t handle it.

            I think we a moving toward a China model, State Control with Capitalist, but not free, markets.  State Capitalism.

            The 2 parties won’t speak to that.

          • Rob (in NY)

            Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Hayek’s nobel was granted for his overall work related to pricing theory, Milton Friedman’s nobel was related to monetary history/ theory and the role of the money supply in explaining events like the Great Depression and inflation of the 1970s,  etc.. and Paul Krugman’s nobel is related to analysisy of trade patterns in explaining economic activity (e.g.  comparative trade theory).  While I respect the intellect of all three of these men as well as their contributions to the field of economics, the nobel prize in economics was never meant to be an endorsement of any political agenda.   However, I would argue that both Hayek’s and Friedman’s nobel prizes were rewarded for theories that are more central to the core of their economic and political beliefs, whereas Krugman’s is more limited to a specific area (trade).           

          • Dave in CT

            Indeed:
            “In 1974 Hayek shared the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences with Swedish economist Gunnar Myrdal for his “pioneering work in the theory of money and economic fluctuations and [his] penetrating analysis of the interdependence of economic, social and institutional phenomena.”

            “Hayek’s principal investigations in economics concerned capital, money, and the business cycle. Mises had earlier applied the concept of marginal utility to the value of money in hisTheory of Money and Credit (1912), in which he also proposed an explanation for “industrial fluctuations” based on the ideas of the old British Currency School and of Swedish economistKnut Wicksell. Hayek used this body of work as a starting point for his own interpretation of the business cycle, elaborating what later became known as the “Austrian Theory of the Business Cycle”. In his Prices and Production (1931), Hayek argued that the business cycle resulted from the central bank’s inflationary credit expansion and its transmission over time, leading to a capital misallocation caused by the artificially low interest rates. Hayek claimed that “the past instability of the market economy is the consequence of the exclusion of the most important regulator of the market mechanism, money, from itself being regulated by the market process.” In accordance with arguments outlined in his essay The Use of Knowledge in Society, he argued that a monopolistic governmental agency like a central bank can neither possess the relevant information which should govern supply of money, nor have the ability to use it correctly.[54]”

            To me, the fact that his work was so linked to examining the “interdependence of economic, social and institutional phenomena”, makes listening and contemplating the ideas he subsequently wrote in The Road to Serfdom, worthwhile.

            Also worthwhile for all the broad-brush smearing around here,
            Hayek on “Why I am Not a Conservative”

            http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/hayek1.html

            And finally, for those who also think his economic vision would leave the poor to die on the street:
            “Hayek also wrote that the state has a role to play in the economy, and specifically, in creating a “safety net.” He wrote: “There is no reason why, in a society which has reached the general level of wealth ours has, the first kind of security should not be guaranteed to all without endangering general freedom; that is: some minimum of food, shelter and clothing, sufficient to preserve health. Nor is there any reason why the state should not help to organize a comprehensive system of social insurance in providing for those common hazards of life against which few can make adequate provision.”

            Quotes from Wikipedia

          • Dave in CT

            While trade policy has been a problem (phony free trade with illiberal trading partners), I think the nature of our crisis now, post crash, is less trading (Krugman specialty) and more existential with regards to economic and political beliefs (Hayek, Friedman)

            ……and before people have a conniption about Friedman the Devil, he is criticized by libertarian/austrian types too, along the monetary issues, again central to our current problems;
            http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard43.html )

          • Gregg

            I miss Milton Freeman.

          • Gregg

            Riveting. Thank you for that Dave.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Thanks for the clarity!  I agree with you on most points.  I am an Independent, but get labelled quickly, mostly as a Dem., when expressing my views. 

          • Dave in CT

            Thanks for the thoughtful response.  

            When you look at all the contributors to our financial crisis, yes, deregulation tailored for the narrow gains of a finance/Washington elite, and then the manipulation of that environment by both the financial sector and an out of control Fannie Mae under James Johnson, a very discretionary, not classical rule of law situation, was a big part of the problem. But the real shot in the arm that went hand in hand with it, was the discretionary monetary policy of the Federal Reserve, allowing so much fuel for the leveraged orgy. Some like to call this “The business cycle”, some weather-like, unpredictable event that blows through now and then.  I would posit that all those elites new EXACTLY what they were doing and EXACTLY how much money they could make with cheap Fed Money combined with the tailored deregulation allowing insane leverage levels, discretionarily lax law enforcement (SEC), and of course the government backing in the revision of the Community Reinvestment act that led directly to the Too Big to Fail Moral Hazard. Not too mention the social planning gone awry with Fannie itself.

            To me we have a massive failure in both Rule of Law, and Monetary Policy/Sound Money issues, supported by a captured Government that no longer respects those basic checks on our system that are meant to keep it sustainable, politically and economically.

            Neither party talks to these issues aside from the fact that Ron Paul is in the R party.

            As far as I see, only the liberty folks and Austrian-economics influenced people, many libertarians, seem willing to look at ALL these contributors, and thus currently have my ear.

            I don’t see how without a renewed respect and establishment of Rule of Law and Sound Money, we can go on as a sustainable democracy.

          • NothingGained

            Isn’t it amazing how ponderous Dave in CT’s replies can be and then still one comes away feeling vapid, dulled and unsatisfied by his commentary?

          • nj

            It’s the language and attitude of cult.

          • Dave in CT

            Still waiting for your views…..

            Vote Dem and cross your fingers again?

          • ulTRAX

            In a dysfunctional political system where political parties don’t mean much, claiming one party or another will solve our problems is irrational. It SHOULD be clear from the origins of the economic crash that the GOP and corporate Dems are the culprits and they can never be trusted.  We need to look for those that opposed their madness. And like it or not, that opposition came from the left wing of the Democratic Party.

          • Dave in CT

            For whatever reasons, you ignore the Ron Paul and other liberty types who have long opposed such madness as well.

            Just because they aren’t hipsters or are too “dumb” or some have different views on religion etc (which I don’t share, but don’t fear from libertarians, like I would under authoritarian GOPers), you guys discount them.

            They are just as distrustful of Power and the notion that power corrupts as you. You may only see power as Money. They also see Power as concentrated Washington power and elite micromanagers.

            BOTH types of power collaborated to deliver our mess.

            Being too cool, or proud, or high-minded to interact with a whole other group of power skeptics, to actually make fundamental changes right now, is a juvenile waste of a moment in history,.

          • ulTRAX

            Yawn, there you go using your code words again… liberty is just another name for unregulated free markets… and it was the DISMANTLING of regulations on the banking and commodity sectors by the GOP and corporate Dems that caused the crash.

          • Dave in CT

            For the 123rd time, just what part of Rule of Law, in our lives (no murder) and in our economy (no financial shenanigans and discretionary law loopholes and favor legislation) don’t you understand?

            Rule of Law Libertarianism does not mean no laws and it does not mean no safety nets.

            Sorry if that complicates your thoughts.

            We might agree, but we could never know….. Now imagine that gridlock on a national scale- arguing while Rome burns… sound familiar?

          • Anonymous

            Don’t understand your stand “code words”? You are acting just like our reps you seemingly disagree with, his points are worthy of good discussion not dismissal.

          • ArnoldWalker

            Your nonsense-to-word ratio is off the charts, congrats!

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Sorry YOU feel that way.  I DO NOT.  Much of his posts make a lot of sense, to me.

          • Gregg

            The flaw of government putting people to work is the government has no money unless it first takes it from somebody else or prints it. It’s like dipping water from the deep end of the pool and pouring in the shallow end.

            I couldn’t agree more that “the best way to reduce the debt and deficit is to increase revenues by putting people back to work!” but there seems to be a presumption scientific research and education (and more I’m sure) cannot thrive without government. 

          • Dave in CT

            Well again, I understand your perspective and take on things. As do all the like-minded “likers” on the page.

            But I fear that preaching to the choir, and solidifying such a platform with the 45% in the country that see it that way, won’t address more fundamental structural problems with our economy and political system.

            IMO we need more broad-based support, and re-affirmation, after re-examination, of just what our American system, role of government, liberty, Rule of Law etc, is again. Both “sides” have been hijacked by a partisan mind-frame and institutional framework, that profits from the discord, and more importantly, REALLY PROFITS, from our inability to come together strongly on a shared vision of both preserving freedoms and protecting our own liberties and opportunities from elites that operate in both government and business.

            Put Bill Black, Glenn Greenwald, and Ron Paul in a pot, stir, and I think we would be looking at something a good 80% of people could get behind.

            Of course if people want communism or something, they will never get on board, but should come out and say it.

        • ulTRAX

          Hoping to be taken seriously Dave wrote: “Hmmmm. $14,000,000,000,000.00 debt, world in a debt crisis, and declaring “no more spending without equal cuts” is treason?” Given much of our national debt has their roots in irresponsible GOP tax cuts while we were already in debt… is it not also logical that increasing revenue is a crucial part of solving the deficit/debt problem?  Perhaps it’s the Right that refuses to revisit what they have to know were irresponsible tax cuts are the ones guilty of “treason”.

          • William

            Obama endorsed the tax cuts and fought hard to extend them. He is pushing for tax cuts now with the payroll taxes, which support Social Security, despite the fact that Social Security needs the funding. Are you not alarmed by the this turn around of the “one we have been waiting for” President? I mean, after all, he is you guys dream come true.

          • ulTRAX

             
            Yawn, I didn’t vote for Obama… and I don’t agree with his tax cut approach. The way to stimulate the economy WITHOUT GOVERNMENT SPENDING is to repeal free trade and force Wall Street to INVEST in America instead of speculate. Their speculation in the commodity markets has brought us $4 gasoline and higher food prices. Wall Street and the giant hedge funds have become bloodsuckers on the economy and it needs to stop.
             

          • Dave in CT

            Then blame the GOP.

            Don’t blame anti-collusive banking, anti-war machine libertarian types.

            Don’t put GOP words and actions in their mouths to help you simplify arguments.

            I don’t defend the GOP here. I don’t defend the military industrial complex. I don’t defend the debt spending. All that really has nothing to do with what I am usually saying, except for the fact that a more empowered people and less empowered elite, and more sound monetary system might actually prevent the profligate spending on that stuff by Big Government anybodies, from military adventurist authoritarians to well meaning Social Planners.

            Not very radical stuff.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      NOT bordering!  HIGH TREASON!!  Putting their financial, political power, hypocritical morals, ABOVE the interests of the U.S.!!  They each took an Oath of Office, to protect the U.S. from enemies, foreign and domestic!  They ARE the domestic enemy!  With their actions.

  • will

    very
    one is talking about the trees (the symptoms) what about the forest
    (the disease) the banking and monetary system are so good getting us
    fighting over the symptoms so the focuses is shifted. –Every thing
    -every thing-EDUCATION- HEALTH CARE,SOCIAL SECURITY,MEDICARE,
    DRUGS-,THE HOUSE THE CONGRESS- Euro- HAS TO DO WITH REINSTATING 
    THE ( GLASS STEAGALL ACT ) It is The MONETARY SYSTEM AGAINST THE
    PEOPLE ( World Wide ) as long as the can take the common peoples
    money and gamble with it and put us on the hook to the bookies no
    faith no trust no jobs – SHUT DOWN THEIR CASINO !!!! STOP THEM
    FROM GAMBLING WITH OUR MONIES!!

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Right On!!

    • Dave in CT

      “It is The MONETARY SYSTEM AGAINST THE PEOPLE”

      Ron Paul has been telling us that for a loooong time.

      Ron Paul 3rd Party 2012

      Honestly, what have you got to lose at this point?

      You think the Dems and Repubs are going to defend our, the people’s, sovereignty again suddenly? You think they are going to buck Central bankers and Treasury elites suddenly?

      • ulTRAX

        And yet Dave, under your libertarian banner of “liberty” you approve of unregulated markets… and that’s what Clinton and Bush2 were doing.  
         
        Just because you can blame politicians for being foolish enough to trust Wall Street… and get rid of New Deal regulations, doesn’t prove free markets are immune to the greedy sociopaths who will be drawn to those opportunities.

        • Dave in CT

          Ultrax, whatever that means, I’ve concluded you are a disingenuous shill. For what, I’m not sure.  You stir up alot of passion, and good Democratic party indignation at our current mess, which people seem to like, but never quite put your finger on how you propose to  prevent it again, and what your mechanistic vision of a functional self-governance would be.

          What candidates, or figures out there, represent your view? Or are you too cool for getting behind someone who could represent leadership on issues you think are important?

          Are you just complaining and cynical, thinking there is no vision and socio-political-economic self governing mechanism that could deliver a good mix of freedom and accountability?

          You guys are masters at complaining, and easy finger-pointing at the evil Republican party or evil markets, but never have a cohesive, pragmatic, and historically consistent set of ideas for alternatives.

          Classic bloggers.

          “And yet Dave, under your libertarian banner of “liberty” you approve of unregulated markets…”

          You haven’t read, or felt the need, to respond to my last 5 responses to you.

          Classic shill.

          Disturbing thing is you aren’t really shilling for anything, just some angry version of the status quo.

          The vast majority around here, do really seem to be of the “Vote Democrat and cross your fingers” mentality.

          Are there easy answers or readily available alternatives? No. But at least I’m trying.

          You guys would seem to prefer becoming entrenched in your fuzzy views of economic justice and go to civil war with the other 45% of the country, rather than try to find common ground, and  an acceptable, fundamental, clear view of self-governance that most could agree on.

          The only conclusion seems to be you don’t really believe in self-governance, because you really do believe the people are too evil and stupid to know when someone is screwing them

          Have you seen the numbers on people’s disgust/disillusionment with our government?

          Figure out what those 80% of people can fundamentally agree with, and lets make it happen.

          You don’t think those 80% are all bought off by lobbyists or are elite bankers themselves do you?

          Get off the 99% high horse, which really  represents more like 45%, and do the hard work of hashing things out with your fellow Americans.

          Or keep up your arrogant and prideful blogosphere, no-answers criticality and demonization of half the country.

          • ulTRAX

            Just because you’re here 24/7 evangelizing and posting long after others have moved on to newer forums, doesn’t mean they are avoiding you. You can portray that as someone being a “shill” if you want.

            Some quick points…

            I’m not a market fundamentalist. I don’t believe it’s as efficient as evangelists claim. Capitalism is a primitive economic system where too many costs are left out of the price of production… and there’s just too much waste resources tied up in pointless proprietary monopolies. Fix some of those problems, and I’d be more supportive. Problem is business will always try to subsidize their profits by making others pick up the costs of production. And business will always try to escape competition by trapping consumers in proprietary monopolies. 

            As for democracy, I’m all for it but there have to be some prerequisites not found in the US. One is citizens should have the right to vote their conscience and be guaranteed some representation. Two, all votes should weigh the same. Three, money is not speech. Democracy is NOT the market where money rules. The influences of big money have no place in the democratic arena where the voice of every citizen should weigh the same. Four: our educational system should be designed to create clear thinking, civic-minded citizens… as much as it tries to create good employees. Five, citizens need unbiased news upon which to make civic decisions. 

          • Anonymous

            Well he may not be a right winger but he’s intelligent! and made some good points.

  • GretchenMo

    What’s up with the fleabagger violence in Oakland? 

    • Googleless

      What’s up with GretchenMobagger’s asanine question? 

      Maybe, search engines don’t exist under her rock or she can’t get wireless access under her bridge.

      • ulTRAX

        Did you actually expect an intelligent or fair-minded post from Gretch?  

        • ArnoldWalker

          Are there any intelligent libturds on this board?  Don’t think so.  How bloody noble! blah, blah, blah

          • Anonymous

            You sound like an 8 year old child.

          • ArnoldWalker

            I’m not interested in what turns you on.

          • ulTRAX

            PKB for Arnie. As I was asking, are there any intelligent Right wingers out there?

            Certainly not in this thread.

  • gslouch

    How can anyone favor the Republicans?  I mean it. I’ve got a brother who is Republican and I love him,but for the life me….?   Smilin’ Mitch McConell has already stated ,the well publicized statement, that his main goal is to remove this president from office.  So apparently that goal is more important than helping th American people in economic need!!  A short list:the Repubs didnt want to extend the unemployment benefits during the summer 2.-they discuss cutting entitlements fpor the most needy ,but cannot shave a miniscule amount of money from the richest of the rich. 3.- The Teabaggers want to do away wth ss(their logic fails. If the govt doesnt do it who will?) 4.- they refuse to pass president Obama’s jobs bill(though not perfect it wpould jumpstart the economy.  I’ve had it!!  I can only hope that the dems can rally for 2012 and that people wake up. Despite big talk  The Republicans and the Teabaggers are anything but for the people. 

  • Hidan

     I rarely ever hear talked about or mention is reducing the salaries of Congress or Congressional aides?

    For example I took Rep. Gary Ackerman staffers pay

    http://www.legistorm.com/member/102/Rep_Gary_Ackerman_NY.html
    Total Salary Expenditures. Just in 2010 was over a million.

    10/01/2010 – 12/31/2010 | $335,248
    07/01/2010 – 09/30/2010 | $227,464
    04/01/2010 – 06/30/2010 | $231,644
    01/01/2010 – 03/31/2010 | $242,9732010 $1,037,329

    http://www.legistorm.com/member/102/Rep_Gary_Ackerman_NY.html

    or take his staffer
    David Sherwood Adams

    Employing Office
    Start date
    End date
    Position
    Amount
    Notes
    PDF

    House Foreign Affairs Committee
    04/01/09
    04/19/09 †
    Subcommittee Staff Director
    $
    7,131.94

    Other Compensation

    House Foreign Affairs Committee
    04/01/09
    04/19/09 
    Subcommittee Staff Director
    $
    6,861.11

    House Foreign Affairs Committee
    01/03/09
    03/31/09 
    Subcommittee Staff Director
    $
    31,777.77

    House Foreign Affairs Committee
    01/01/09
    01/02/09 
    Subcommittee Staff Director
    $
    909.97

    2009 subtotal:

    $46,680.79
     

    House Foreign Affairs Committee
    09/01/08
    12/31/08 
    Subcommittee Staff Director
    $
    43,764.99

    House Foreign Affairs Committee
    07/01/08
    09/30/08 
    Subcommittee Staff Director
    $
    32,499.99

    House Foreign Affairs Committee
    04/01/08
    06/30/08 
    Subcommittee Staff Director
    $
    32,499.99

    House Foreign Affairs Committee
    01/03/08
    03/31/08 
    Subcommittee Staff Director
    $
    30,972.22

    House Foreign Affairs Committee
    01/01/08
    01/02/08 
    Subcommittee Staff Director
    $
    887.93

    2008 subtotal:

    $140,625.12
     
    besides year 2009 he made over 100k per year.

    • BottomLine

      Talk about getting ‘banged’ for our buck. 

    • Anonymous

      Well you have to realize that the first order of every congress is to give themselves a raise. We the people have nothing to say about it. We just elect them.

  • Jessica, Laguna Beach, CA

    While it is admirable to cover the people protesting in the streets, I also wish there was more coverage of the lack of personal responsibility that the protesters had in their financial lives that resulted in our failing economy.  Americans still are not saving money and are trying to buy houses for next to nothing.  Greeks have had a high rate of unemployment for a long time, and they are ok to just live off the system. The governments cannot fix the economy if individual citizens do not make responsible and constructive choices.

    • ulTRAX

      Let me see if I understand you correctly. There might currently be 30-50,000 OWS protesters. Are you saying the lack of personal responsibility of these mostly young people crashed our economy three years ago? And let me guess… you’re giving our bought and sold politicians and the greedy sociopaths on Wall Street a free pass?  

      Are there any intelligent Right wingers out there?

      Didn’t think so.

  • Noah

    Hi, 
    I’m a 12 year old sixth grader, and I was wondering, what is the view of each guest on the show right now about how to fix the Greek economy?

    • GoodLuck

      Noah –

      Excellent question.  Tom Ashbrook could take some pointers from you.

      One thing you can learn about the Main Stream Media is that they often don’t provide answers to real questions.

      They have a difficult enough time trying to relay the correct information and the complete story behind it.

      For instance: See how I didn’t answer your question, but made several comments about your question? 

      Today, that’s what the Main Stream Media calls ‘journalism’.

      Before you were born, we called it, ‘spin’.  And before that, in the old-time days, we use to call it, ‘propaganda’.

      Now, the Main Stream Media calls it ‘news’.

      It’s usually best to integrate all the information and ideas you can  by thinking about them logically.  Then, you can come up with your own answers based on your own reasoning.

      A long time ago, they use to teach this ability in schools, but not so much anymore.  They are called ‘critical thinking’ skills.  If you keep practicing them and using them whenever you can, you get smarter and smarter.

       

    • William

      Eventually, Greece will fail. Certainly there are band-aids that will be applied along the way, but in the end, it will fail.

  • Michiganjf

    Regarding National Bank Transfer Day tomorrow:

    Don’t believe the blather about doing no better at a credit union, you’ll do much better at a credit union than at a big bank, especially of late.

    Credit Unions save customers plenty of money in other ways, even if interest rates world-wide are so screwed that people can’t earn decent interest anywhere, including credit unions.

    Credit unions make their money the old-fashioned way… by serving the needs of their customers.

    Credit unions extend credit to the credit worthy, and they charge fair and reasonable interest rates, unlike the big banks.

    Big banks overcharge on fees and interest, and right now, they’re not lending to the credit-worthy anyway… they simply want to take people’s money, pay no rate of return, yet use the deposits to scam profits for themselves in every dishonest way they’ve conceived and “legitimized” over the last three decades.

    Credit unions are non-profit, and they earn the old-fashioned way, which used to be good enough for all of America’s banks… by taking in deposits and lending the money out at a reasonable rate of return.

    Meanwhile, credit unions provide all the other banking services people have come to depend on, WITHOUT scamming their customers for every fee they can milk from their clients’ deposits.

    Do yourself a favor and skip the big banks… find a good credit union and become a member if you’re at all eligible.

    I’ve banked with University Federal Credit Union in Austin, Texas for 30 years. I borrowed small amounts and repaid the loans as agreed, working up a good credit history with them. When I’ve needed a car loan, I got it at a good rate… when I was ready to buy a house, I was loaned the money at a good rate, and fifteen years later, my wife and I have a home worth over twice what we paid in a solid housing market.

    We buy all our insurance through our credit union, and the rates have always been the best we’ve found.

    The credit union has awesome, free services that have helped us locate excellent deals on slightly used autos, with a no-lemon policy.

    In thirty years, I’ve never been anything but grateful for my credit union, and I’ve alwasy felt for people being suckered by big banks when I know how much better off they’d be at a decent credit union.

    One thing though… I know the quality of credit unions varies, so do your homework well and find a reputable, good quality credit union- then make the switch.

  • ulTRAX

    What a spectacle. In a GOP field of self-righteous and obnoxious fundamentalists, con men, marital cheats, charlatans, and sexual harassers… Romney, who is loathed by rabid Right base and has no credibility because he’ll say anything to become president, might be the GOP’s only “viable” candidate.

    • William

      I thought JFK, Clinton, Edwards, Ted Kennedy were all Democrats? They all cheated on their wives.

      • ulTRAX

        I’m not a Dem and I didn’t vote for any of those people. Being from Mass, I even refused to even for for Ted Kennedy because of Chappaquiddick. So what’s your point?

        I won’t ask what GOP scumbags you’ve voted for or plan to in the future.

        • William

          I never met a person from MA that voted for Ted, but somehow he kept getting reelected….

          • ulTRAX

            More deflecting attention away from the problems YOUR side has.

            As for Kennedy, who cares what your unscientific impressions are. You probably only know right wingers.

          • William

            It’s tough for you Liberals to defend “Ted”.

          • PoorBilly

            Poor Billy again avoids the issue.

          • ulTRAX

            I’m not a goddamn Dem and I’m not a goddamn Liberal.

            Gettin’ any of this yet Smallfry?

          • William

            The first step for you is to admit you are a liberal, voted for ted and love hillary, bill and barry.

          • Anonymous

            First step for you is to know, you don’t know jack sh!t.

      • Michiganjf

        HUGE, HUGE DIFFERENCE… Dems don’t parade around like hypocrites, touting “family values” and the “sanctity” of heterosexual marriage as holy grails, then get busted cheating on their wives or meeting in airport bathrooms for gay trysts.

        When Dems show THST kind of exclusively REPUBLICAN HYPOCRISY, then you can draw a moral equivalent.

        • William

          So when JFK was banging hookers and then doing photo shoots with his wife and kids that ok?…Edwards wife is dying of cancer and he is out banging some bar fly?….Clinton?..well..we all know about him….

          • ulTRAX

            Typical partisan diversion to avoid talking about a scumbag like Newt who IS running for president. Newt was screwing around on his first wife. When she was in the hospital recovering from surgury, he went there with divorce papers for her to sign. He was having another affair when he was trying to impeach Clinton. Yup… a model Family Values Republican.  

          • William

            Newt is a choir boy compared to Clinton. Can you imagine, Clinton playing around with some intern in the oval office and that is acceptable behavior by the Liberal leadership. I’ll take Newt anyday.

          • ulTRAX

            So what’s this now a game… your scumbag is better than my scumbag?  

            Oh, but I’M NOT A DEM…. and I DIDN’T VOTE FOR CLINTON EITHER IN 92 or 96. I voted for Perot and Nader. Gee, right around now your game falls apart.  

            So it seems between the two of us only YOU support a scumbag.  

            Like with Newt, your hypocrisy runneth over. How goddamn noble.

          • william

            Newt is much more qualified to lead the nation than “barry” and his sorted past. Rev. Wright?….Bill Ayers?….

          • Anonymous

            You do smoke and mirrors pretty good. Are you going to run for an electable office? I’m sure Newt will put in a good word.

  • ArnoldWalker

    It’s obvious we need to cut government spending, and entitlements won’t be immune.  We just spend too much, it’s got to stop! 

    • Anonymous

      We can start with your “entitlements”.
      SS is not an entitlement people pay into this, do you get it?

      • ArnoldWalker

        Yeah, but they get more than they pay in.  Got to cut.

        • Anonymous

          @b5961e734a50f4cdc71a687b366321b6:disqus  The amount a recipient gets depends on their income over their life. The poorest do get more than they put in, but their life income typically has not been that great, at least in part because the jobs they work in are not paid commensurate with the work they do. At the bottom of the job scale it is easy to find others qualified for the work, so there is little leverage to use to make sure that they work for a “living wage.”
          The argument that the minimum wage is a living wage is really specious; just try living on it in any large city and anywhere else there is usually a paucity of job opportunities. There is a reason that the poor leave the rural areas and migrate to cities and it has been going on since the beginning of the Industrial Age.

          But while there was a period when people did get more than they put it, it was not exorbitantly more except in the eyes of the rich who think they made their way in life entirely on their own without being “lucky” in any way. But this will not be true in the future without any further changes in Social Security payout and revenue.

        • Anonymous

          Like I said let’s start with yours. You people on the right make me are real good at the sound bites but you lack any ability to see beyond your noses. You think SS is the problem when it is clear that it is solvent for the next 40 years or more. When presented with the facts you change the subject instead of dealing with the real numbers.
          You say cut this and that while our roads are falling apart and every year a bridges are failing. Our electricity grid is in dire need in upgrading and if we do not do anything we will become a third rate nation that is for sure.

          Why does the right hate America so much?

        • ulTRAX

          That happens all the time with INSURANCE plans.

        • ArnoldZiffel

          If people can’t walk, might as well cut off both their legs.

        • Anonymous

          If you have a savings plan that should pay interest on your money do you get back more than you put in? If some bank loans out your money and loses it do you want it back? Are you a freeloader if you just want what you were told was going to be yours? When someone who has more than they could ever spend in two lifetimes take what you worked for your whole life that doesn’t equal to one party bash they have, and tell you you get to much. Would that make you angry?

          I’m sure you have good answers to thees questions.

    • Anonymous

      @b5961e734a50f4cdc71a687b366321b6:disqus  On what basis do you find that government “spends too much”?
      The question that really applies is: What are we spending the money on, and do we benefit from that spending, given that we have the money? The country does “Have the money.” Tax rates can be raised without bringing a growing prosperity from benefiting ALL citizens as demonstrated by the best sustained economic performance ever in the U.S. during the 1950s and 1960s when taxes were much higher, particularly on higher incomes.

      The one “entitlement” that needs work is Medicare, but its costs are driven by the cost of healthcare generally, not just that for elders. The delivery system and the payment process has to be reformed. While not nearly enough, the PPACA was a first step in this process and provided mechanisms that will allow the evaluation of what works and what doesn’t in the system.

      But Social Security is nearly self-sustaining and can be made so without the drastic cuts desired by right-wing conservatives, who are more interested in disabling the system rather than making it work. Back in 2005 Business Week had an article (sorry, I have temporarily lost the reference) which explained why the “Trust Fund” had not grown as rapidly as projected back when the Greenspan Commission designed it and Congress passed it in 1983. This design failure is due to the way incomes have grown, with the majority of gains going to people of high incomes, above the “cut-off income for F.I.C.A. deductions. The number of incomes and the consequential amounts of incomes below the cut-off have not grown appropriately so the amount deducted has not grown.

      This is a real consequential result of the growing inequality in income here in the U.S. The best way to recover the small amount in shortfall is to raise the cut-off amount; this will not be perfect but until mechanisms can be implemented to make the sharing of productivity gains more equitable between the business owners and the workers in that business, it more closely approximates what is “perfect.” The reason that raising the retirement age is not appropriate is that the widely cited “increased longevity” of Americans is NOT due to a great increase in age at death; it is due to a lot fewer people dying in childbirth and in youth and middle age, which is due to better healthcare, mostly PUBLIC health such as cleaner drinking water (less typhoid, etc.) and vaccinations for childhood diseases.

      What greater lifespans occur are in the wealthy who have the best access to health care and also eat better, exercise more and generally lead a lifestyle that produces better health. The poor, exposed to more pollution from birth (where individual children have little choice in their surroundings) to adulthood and, recent studies show, experience cultural difficulties from stress-inducing racism — subtle but still pervasive — to lack of inducements to understand the need for a good education.

      But the wealthy show a real social Darwinian attitude that exempts them from having to think about the lack of equal opportunity for most of the poor. Of course the fortunate exceptions are cited as examples that the rest of the poor could follow, when they refuse to examine just how possible that path is to follow.

      • William

        Isn’t the EU economic disaster a warning call against big government and high taxes?

        • ulTRAX

          By your logic, then if Red China is NOT having problems, then it’s a superior economic model?

          • William

            Stick to the topic…the EU is falling apart…why?…SOCIALISM!!!!…it’s a total failure…

          • NoMoreLies

            If the EU is “failing” then how can the EU find the money to bail out Greece?

            And if the US capitalism is doing so great, why did Bush have to bail out the Wall Street banks to the tune of 800 BILLION?

          • William

            The EU is failing. Their ability to survive depends on the Germans to keep “sucking it up” and eventually they will say “enough”. U.S. capitalism would be much better off with fewer regulations (10,000) new regulations put out in 2010 alone. There is no better system ever invented that capitalism.

          • ulTRAX

            Yup… getting rid of the New Deal regulations on the banking and commodity sectors worked like a charm!!!!

            Gee, ya don’t think they might have learned something from the crash of 1929 when they put those regulations into effect, do you Einstein?

          • William

            Yes, we failed to learn from FDR’s failed “fixes” during his reign of terror on business and the economy.

          • William

            The banks were destroyed by a corrupt federal goverment pushing for “diversity” in home loans. This dumb idea was started by Carter and Clinton made it a center piece of his administration. Capitalism works if the government gets out of the way.

          • ulTRAX

            Yawn, the EU is NOT failing. Some nations are in trouble including Ireland which was once heralded by the Right as the Celtic Tiger for its low corporate taxes.

          • william

            The EU is sucking the life out of Germany and at some point the Germans will say “enough”. The problem with Socialism is that it will eventually fail.

          • ulTRAX

            Leaving aside the matter that you don’t even know what the hell Socialism is….

            So according to your “logic” if the US economy collapsed under Bush… that’s proof capitalism works. That social democratic Germany survived the crash… and is healthy enough to bail out some less responsible nations, that’s proof social democratic economic systems do NOT work?

            Gee, it looks like the evidence here really suggests that RESPONSIBLE social democratic systems do better than either the free market US model or irresponsible social democratic systems.

            Funny how you were again oblivious to the obvious.

            Are there ANY non-braindead conservatives out there?

          • william

            Why do you liberals always want to defend Socalism? It failed with the USSR can’t you guys just admit it?. What caused the current failure in the housing market? President Clinton’s push for “diversity” in housing based on race and not economics. Gee..what is that?

          • William

            Yes, Ireland is getting pushed to raise taxes by the rest of the EU? Why,? because the EU is a economic basket case…they hated Ireland for getting too much business during the boom years. The EU will fail.

        • ulTRAX

          If you’re looking for economic failures you don’t have to look much further than here in the US. Our economic collapse was caused by RIGHT WING ideas on free trade and deregulation. Yes, I know Clinton bought into this insanity, but they were REPUBLICAN IDEAS. But you never see the GOP take any responsibility. They’ve played the diversion game pointing the finger of blame elsewhere to protect policies that benefit their rich constituents. Even though the evidence is quite clear, you obviously buy into to their bullcrap… and guess what… You see no remorse or second thoughts from the Right. And if back in power THEY’RE GOING TO DO IT AGAIN!!

          • William

            The largest free trade agreement was pushed for and signed by President Clinton. Despite the strong objections by union members who would suffer greatly by this failed “free trade” agreement, he signed it and bragged how it would be a boom for jobs here in American. It has been a failure. The failure of the Democratic leadership to acknowledge their “golden boy” Clinton’s sell out of the workman in the USA is stunning.

          • ulTRAX

            What the hell is your point? We KNOW Clinton was a DLC, pro-corporate Dem. That he sold out unions hoping to get a share of that corporate money is hardly a secret. What you’re avoiding here is that free trade was a RIGHT WING IDEA. Most Dems voted AGAINST NAFTA.

          • William

            It is another example of a real dishonest person that Clinton was and remains so to this day. He set this country on a road to economic disaster buy declaring war on the banks to give loans to people that could not afford them. He set this country on a path to war by pushing for the center piece of the Clinton Doctrine with his Iraq Liberation Act. His national security advisor stole and destroyed top secret documents that are the smoking gun in the Iraq War decision President Bush.

    • ArnoldZiffel

      Agreed.  We have to stop:

      the two illegal wars costing trillions and thousands of lives
      the hundreds of military bases around the world
      the corrupt defense contractors earning billions
      the war on entitlements

       

  • ArnoldWalker

    Cut support to NPR, the arts, defense, foreign aid, government pensions, medicare, medicaid, SS, and that’s just a start.

    • ulTRAX

      Sure, there are things we can cut. Where is it in the Constitution that the “common defense” means we have to have a world-wide military presence and outspend virtually every other nation combined? Nah, THAT we can’t cut. And it’s funny how the biggest WASTE of money in the budget… interest on the debt, isn’t on your hit list. We pissed away some $2.9 TRILLION on interest during the Bush years and it bought the American people N_O_T_H_I_N_G. Quite an accomplishment for Bush and the GOP who were handed a budget surplus and pissed it away rather than pay down debt as they promised. That interest averages to about $362 BILLION a year. In contrast the NPR budget for 2011 was a paltry $144 million… if my math is correct less than 1/2 of 1% pissed away on interest. Good thinking there Einstein. Cutting NPR will save the Republic! Yup, cut everything but NEVER reconsider the SIX ROUNDS of irresponsible Bush tax cuts all made while we were at least SIX TRILLION in debt. Revenue is NOT a problem even if in real dollars revenues have been virtually FLAT for a decade. Are there any intelligent Right wingers out there? Clearly none in this thread.

      • William

        Bush had to defeat the terrorists after Clinton ignored them. Then, Clinton pushed through his “Iraq Liberation Act” which gave Bush and the Congress the green light for the Iraq War.

        • ulTRAX

          ROTF… 911 didn’t happen on the first week Bush took office but NINE MONTHS later. Feel free to blame Clinton, but it’s just more of your immature partisan bullcrap.

          As for the Iraq Liberation Act… again you’re just showing more of your legendary ignorance. Try reading it someday… especially the part that said

          SEC. 8. RULE OF CONSTRUCTION.Nothing in this Act shall be construed to authorize or otherwise speak to the use of United States Armed Forces (except as provided in section 4(a)(2)) in carrying out this Act . http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/US/Legislation/ILA.htm Do I hear a retraction? Didn’t think so. As for Bush’s illegal invasion he COULD HAVE PAID FOR IT but because he wanted to run up debt, he put the two wars on the credit card.  

          • William

            Clinton treated the threat of terrorism as a law enforcement issue and refused to take out the leadership of the terrorists. The CIA gave him the target but he would not pull the trigger. The Iraq Liberation Act was cited by both Republicans and Democrats as authority to start the war against Iraq. You should review the various statements from Democratic leadership such as Gore, Clinton, Mrs, Clinton, all warning of the threat by Iraq. The facts are clear, the Iraq Liberation Act was the foundation for us going to war. The foundation of the Clinton Doctrine was the Iraq Liberation Act.

          • PoorBilly

            The ILA did NOT give the green light to Bush to attack Iraq as you claim Billy. So why are you waltzing around the issue and not retracting?

          • ulTRAX

            What William is doing is moving the goal post. He get’s proven wrong, never retracts, and moves on to a new line of attack.

          • William

            The fact that Clinton pushed hard for the Iraq Liberation Act and his later destruction of key top secret documents by his top Security Advisor Sandy Berger prove you wrong. Those stolen documents are the smoking gun.

          • Anonymous

            The only thing smoking is your brain. You speculate to answers you don’t know, and refuse to understand the answers you’ve been given. Do some real research on your own with an OPEN mind, it may change the way you see through the glass darkly and bring some light and enlightenment.

          • William

            It certainly did. The Iraq Liberation Act was the center of the Clinton Doctrine. I think President Bush was briefed by the Clinton team to “take out Iraq” and ignore terrorism. Why did Sandy Berger destroy those top secret documents? What is the Clinton team covering up?

          • ulTRAX

             Bush was masterful in manipulating the public and Congress into approving the Authorization to use Force just before the 2002 election. Congress was duped with phony intelligence and many parroted what they were told. 
            But Bush didn’t comply with law. Force was authorized under two conditions:
             Authorization.–The President is authorized to use the Armed
            Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and
            appropriate in order to–
                        (1) defend the national security of the United States
                    against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and
                        (2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council
                    resolutions regarding Iraq.
            http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-107publ243/html/PLAW-107publ243.htm
            Bush FAILED to get the language he wanted from the UNSC allowing any member state to act on its own to enforce UN resolutions. The UNSC left it to itself to decide what the “serious consequences” would be. And Bush lied about Iraq posing any security threat to the US.  Arguably Bush broke both US law and our obligations under the UN Treaty.

          • william

            It would be interesting to see those documents that Clinton’s National Security advisor Sandy Berger stole and destroyed. Did they reveal that the outgoing President Clinton briefed the incoming President Bush to ignore the terrorism threat and just focus on taking out Iraq? The push by Clinton and his team for the Iraq Liberation Act seems to point in that direction. It is unfortuate that Clinton was able to con Berger into destroying vital top secret documents that prevent us from “closing the loop”.

    • ulTRAX

      OK Einstein… you cut your way to a balanced budget… now what? You can’t pay down debt unless there’s an on-budget surplus. But we HAD AND ON BUDGET SURPLUS IN 2000 and what did the Tax Cut crazies on the Right do? They passed round after round of irresponsible tax cuts even as that surplus disappeared. And you expect sane people to AGAIN for the same trick?

      Anyone with more than a room temp IQ knows the Right has a hidden agenda: to sabotage the fiscal health of government then use that as a pretense to slash spending on all they programs they disapprove of. They’ve been trying to repeal the New Deal for 80 years and they knew they could never honestly run on that platform. So under Bush they ran up as much debt as they could hoping for this day when they could blame all our budget problems on spending.  

       You need to get control of the crazies on the Right before coming here proposing that spending cuts are the only option. Oops, sorry… you are one of those crazies.

      • ulTRAX

        And the response from Arnie?

        crickets!

    • Anonymous

      Spoken like a true Philistine. Here’s a thought, it’s a revenue and an efficiency problem. 

    • ArnoldZiffel

      You sure you want to cut ‘defense’.  It doesn’t seem to fit in your list above.  Besides, it’s such a booming industry. 

  • ulTRAX

    Is it a bad idea to have a big tax hike in the middle of a deep recession to counter a growing deficit?

    Apparently Reagan didn’t think so.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Equity_and_Fiscal_Responsibility_Act_of_1982

    • William

      Did Regan have a Democratic Congress or Republican Congress?

      • ulTRAX

        Can’t do your own simple research Einstein? BTW, Reagan didn’t veto this bill.

        • William

          You answered by question. Why do you get so angry all the time?

          • ulTRAX

            If YOU’RE curious, then YOU can do your own research. It’s really not the issue.

            The issue I raised, and you want to EVADE, is whether passing a tax hike during a DEEP RECESSION must automatically be rejected as hurting the economy. Obviously Reagan differs with the current crop of GOP crazies… even as they hold him up as their hero.    

          • William

            What we need now is a serious downsizing in the size, scope and spending by the local, state and federal governments. Reagan had a Democratic congress who got their tax increases. Can you imagine how much bigger of a economic boom we would have got if Reagan had got massive spending cuts, more tax cuts, elimination of the Dept. of Education and Energy. Now we are stuck with a failed, bloated, corrupt government that is dragging us into a huge economic depression.

          • ulTRAX

            ROTF, I love it when you have to rewrite history to keep your delusions alive. According to the article the tax hikes were put in by the GOP Senate: 

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Equity_and_Fiscal_Responsibility_Act_of_1982 

            And what economic boom? All the predictions Reagan made for his tax cuts FAILED. He said there’d be a balanced budget in several years and we could start to pay down debt. He claimed there’d be 13 million new jobs by 1986 and he fell short by about 4 million. In fact the economy fell into a deep recession starting in summer 81 with unemployment hitting a peak of 10.8% in Dec 82. Unemployment was over 8% for all of 82 and 83. Some economic miracle.  

            THERE WAS NO REAGAN MIRACLE. But there was plenty of traditional Keynesian deficit spending… close to $2 trillion.  

            As for the DOE, I suppose you’re unaware that it’s responsible for the production and maintenance of our nuclear arsenal. And why shouldn’t we have a national energy policy? Are you too young to remember 1973 and 1979?   

            And in your Orwellian economic fantasy, the private sector is completely blameless for the economic collapse. Where government is responsible is in giving business and Wall Street what it wanted: free trade and deregulation. It was RIGHT WING IDEAS that crashed our economy.

            Get a clue, if you can’t make a point without gross distortions or rewriting history, you haven’t really made a point, have you Fluffy?

          • William

            We had a massive economic boom thanks to Reagan. He ended the Cold War too. The Democrats like to rewrite history but fail everytime. If a massive bloated government spending is so great why are we in such the dumps now?

          • ulTRAX

            I’m rewriting history inventing the Reagan Recession?

            I’m sorry Willie, you’re really WAY too stupid to bother talking to. you wouldn’t know a fact if it hit you in the face.

          • BadIdea

            He gets frustrated with always having to detail the facts in response to spurious comments.

  • ulTRAX

    Pray tell, who could have uttered this heresy? A tax hike and infrastructure spending during a deep recession with 10.8% unemployment?

    “When we first built our highways, we paid for them with a gas tax, a highway user fee that charged those of us who benefited most from the system. It was a fair concept then, and it is today. But that levy has not been increased in more than 23 years. And it no longer covers expenses. The money for today’s improvements will come from increasing the gas tax, or the highway user fee, by the equivalent of a nickel a gallon — about $30 a year for most motorists.

    The repairs and construction are expected to stimulate about 170,000 jobs, with an additional 150,000 jobs created in related industries. Another provision in this bill adds up to 6 weeks of unemployment benefits for people who have used up all their unemployment insurance. Such badly needed assistance will put more than half a billion dollars into the pockets of family budgets of our long-term unemployed.

    While the action we take today will bring some relief to those of us who so want to work and yet cannot find jobs, its principal benefit will be to ensure that our roads and transit systems are safe, efficient, and in good repair. The state of our transportation system affects our commerce, our economy, and our future.

    • William

      If we could use non union labor we would get more roads, bridges etc..built, but we are stuck with using union labor which is corrupt and slow….the current level of funding is adequate and anymore money will just increase the amount of corruption and waste…

      • ulTRAX

        You have an unique talent for missing, or is it evading, the point.

        • Willaim

          The Republicans would promise, promise to raise taxes in coming years, if the Democrats would only allow a ten percent cut in spending, just ten percent…small haircut….it’s a shame they won’t reach across the isle to the Republicans…

          • BadIdea

            Two bad ideas.  We need surgical strikes.  Not carpet bombing.

          • ulTRAX

            And when did the GOP reach across the isle to Obama? You might have thought that after their right wing ideas resulted in a collapsed economy, they might have had some second thoughts or remorse about what they did. Nope. They gave him no honeymoon or respect… but started on a strategy to undermine him at every step.

          • William

            The Republicans met with Obama during the first few months of his administration. He told them “I won” and that was the end of his “reaching across the isle”.

          • ulTRAX

            Enough of your empty claims. PROVE IT it using a credible source!!!!
            You DO know what a CREDIBLE source is, right? Didn’t think so.

            We saw how much the GOP wanted to work with Obama on Stimulus bill.  

      • ulTRAX

        So are you saying the GOP should drop its no new taxes stance if any new infrastructure work was done with NON-union work? Better yet, why not just invite in illegals or bring in Red Chinese firms so we don’t “over pay” US firms for concrete and steel!! The Chamber of Commerce would love that. They opposed any “buy American” provision in the 2009 Stimulus.

        • Brett

          ulTRAX,
          Didn’t you hear? david says we here in the US are already (at least in his rural Alabamian town) giving 90% of our infrastructure work to illegals!!! It is amazing how many government “programs” run amok there are in his hometown! Of course, naysayers will mention something about the apocryphal nature of his “eye-witness” accounts…those damned east coast, liberal, elite, intellectual types! They won’t even believe a Fundamentalist Christian  mailman from Alabama?!?!?

          Thankfully, we have david to “keep-it-real” for us; the man is an indefatigable watchdog-citizen while out on his postal route…I, for one, wish mailmen had more authority to call in immigration officials when they spot illegal activity being perpetuated by the government!!  

        • William

          The Republicans would propose new taxes down the road of they could get at least 10 percent cuts across the board now.

          • ulTRAX

            Oh gee… the GOP is just SO reasonable. If they get what they want they MAY consider more revenue. Boehner said those new revenues would not be taxes but revenues from one time sale of public lands etc.

          • William

            Yes, the Republicans should consider a tax increase later and follow through like the Democrats record do with future spending cuts.

          • BadIdea

            More tax cuts, now more debt later.  Haven’t you learned anything in the last 25 years?

          • ulTRAX

            In order to redefine fiscally irresponsible tax cuts into responsible fiscal policy, the Orwellian Right created a number of myths that tax cuts create revenue boom and pay for themselves, that they are crucial to stimulate the economy, that revenues don’t matter… only spending.  The problem is they were so successful the past 30 years that they sabotaged the collective fiscal IQ of the right wing base and created a Tax Cut Cult. No amount of evidence will convince them they are pursuing fiscally irresponsible if not dangerous policies because to be a Cult member they have to substitute all commonsense about budgets with Orwellian Math. It is truly scary to see such a large segment of the population embrace such irrationality.

          • William

            Tax cuts were never the problem. The problem is overspending.

          • ulTRAX

            Let’s see… back in 2001 We The People we’re SIX TRILLION in debt… you know, all that overspending you pretend to be concerned about.  Yet instead of PAYING for what was already spent, you say instead it was OK to SLASH REVENUES!!!!! William, the contradictions and idiocy in your pathological belief system are too deep to fathom. You’re a classic example of why some people should not have the vote.  

      • ulTRAX

        So William… you’re EVADING the issue I raised.

        Pray tell, who could have uttered the heresy above? Who, during a deep recession with 10.8% unemployment, praised a TAX HIKE as jobs bill to repair infrastructure?

        • ulTRAX

          Earth to William!!!!

          crickets

  • Gregg
    • ulTRAX

      Back to hiding the sites you’re linking to?

      • Hidan

        Come on Ultrax that’s how conservatives roll. Notice at .20 sec in they list all the media sources of course not including Fox News.

        Also notice that there’s no mention that Rick Perry’s group was behind the release.

        • Rob (in NY)

          It really amuses me how liberals get so riled up with regard to Fox News (yes, I  freely acknowledge Fox News has a conservative bias), but then many of you post links to sources such as MSNBC, the Huffington Post, and Krugman editorials which ocf course all have a liberal bias at least as strong.   For me, the important thing is to understand whether an information source has a bias/agenda and view the information in that context.  

          One way of judging these editorial based anchors is whether he (she) is capable of conducting a probing, but civil and fair minded  interview that has a duration of at least 30 minutes with a political leader from the other side.  I freely ackowledge that many of the anchors on Fox fail this test (although O’Reilly has on occasion conducted these types of interviews with  President Obama among others, but I also acknowledge that O’Reilly is often rude and cuts people off).   I like On Point as Tom does this well.   When was the last time you saw Rachel Maddow, Chris Matthews, Ed Schultz or any of the MSNBC anchors with the possible exception of Laurence O’Donnell) conduct a similar interview of at least 30 minutes with a member of the Republican leadership?  The only difference is that the Fox hosts at least have enough talent to attract high ratings.  

          P.S. Where have you gone David Brinkley?          

          • JonS

            I couldn’t agree with you more. It astounds me how so many liberals get exercised about Fox News. It’s one media outlet against the numerous other mainstream media outlets that trend liberal. If the mainstream media was honest and even handed in their reporting , they’d ask Harry Reid why he refuses to put up for a vote in the Senate any of the Republican bills that have passed the house. They’d ask why Obama , if he was serious about getting something passed, doesn’t reach out to Republican leaders and get a bill passed that will get people back to work. They would ask Obama if he was campaigning our governing.

          • Anonymous

            Funny comment and it shows how you’re so taken in by Fox’s lies.
            There is no such thing as liberal media. How could there be when it’s all owned by corporate interest such as GE. You really have to try better if you ask me. Even the Koch brothers underwrite PBS.
            Do you have any clue on who things work in this arena?

          • Hidan

            That’s how Keith O got booted cause GE and Newcorp made a deal to stop attacking each other. Least the way of Bill O and Keith O did. It started hurting the bottom line.

          • Anonymous

            Oh please. Nice try though.

          • Rob (in NY)

            Please Jeffe.  How can you honestly claim that there is not a liberal bias at the MSNBC or Huffington Post?    Look at the cast of anchors who have editorial based shows at MSNBC during prime viewing hours.    Chris Matthews, Rev. Al Sharpton (who in my opinion, he actually does the best show among this group because he is at least charismatic and entertaining and makes me laugh),  Rachel Maddow, Laurence O’Donnell, and Ed Schultz.  When was the last time you saw anyone among this group conduct a civil, in depth 30 minute interview with a member of the GOP leadership.     The two token conservatives  who appear most often on MSNBC are Michael Steele and Joe Scarbarough, both of whom were forced out of senior roles within the GOP and have an axe to grind with the party (Fox does the exact same thing with its token liberal hosts).  

            For the record, I have no problem with editorial based programs (whether it be liberal or conservative) as long as programs are clearly advertised as editorial programs (rather than news) so users can put its information in context.  

          • GoogleIt

            Rob – You really believe in the ‘myth of the liberal media’?  I thought you were more intelligent than that. 

          • Hidan

            of course your comment did not address what I wrote. The link said Cain was a victim of a High Tech Lynching by the Main Stream media. Than went on to list all the MSM. excluding Fox News. While blaming the liberal media for the “lynching of Cain” it excluding that the story was uncovered and feed to the media by Perry’s Camp.

          • Rob (in NY)

            As I noted on this discussion board yesterday, I am definitely not in Cain camp for reasons having as much to do with his grasp (or lack thereof) of basic foreign policy issues and some basic qualifications I have for supporting any Presidential candidate (see my comments yesterday morning and afternoon) as the sexual harrassment claims, where information is still coming out.    Based on your description of the link, I would agree that the high tech lynching  claim seems absurd in this case.     

            My take on the sexual harrassment claims against Cain based on the information released so far is as follows.   Most sexual harrassment lawsuits generally fall within two types.

            - Quid pro quo:  The worst types of sexual harrassment are classified as “quid pro quo” .  If you talk to any good employment attorney, these lawsuits are almost never settled for less than six figure amounts; unless the plaintiff’s attorney is a complete fool  which seems unlikely based on some of the interviews I have seen  as well as his description of there being a pattern of off color comments  

            -Hostile work environment:   These claims can involve a pattern of unwanted comments that occur after an employee ask   them to stop or if an employer creates a culture of tolerating sexual harrassment (for the same of breviity, lets call it the Mad Men culture).  

            Based on the fact that the claims against Cain was settled for less than $50k, I would guess that they probably fall within this second category.  Regardless, a pattern of claims in the second category stil demonstrates serious lapses in judgement.

          • Hidan

            “Based on the fact that the claims against Cain was settled for less than
            $50k, I would guess that they probably fall within this second
            category.  Regardless, a pattern of claims in the second category stil
            demonstrates serious lapses in judgement.”

            Interesting take. I would recommend listening to today’s “this American life” It kind of gives examples on how people in high places can get away with sexual harassment and harassment in general if the proper power structure is in place to do so. I believe towards the end it said out of all the stuff he did their were only two settlements one with 25000 and another(I believe )250000.

            Listen to what the Secretary had to say and assuming she was able to say it means she’s not part of either since gag orders are often in place after such settlements.

            http://www.thisamericanlife.org/
            http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/419/petty-tyrant

          • Hidan

            “The only difference is that the Fox hosts at least have enough talent to attract higher ratings.  ”

            Hardly, Jackass had higher ratings at one time, or Teen Moms on MTV or Real World. Bevis and Butthead, South Park,. High Ratings does not imply talent or newsworthiness.Something conservatives seem not to be able to understand.

            As for interviews Ed schultz and much of what your decrying MSNBC for came out of Fox infotainment way of reporting not before.

          • Fredlinskip

            One of the problems with 1/2 hour interviews with GOP’ers is either;
            1) what you seem to get is a solid 1/2 hour of talking points- often these folks don’t seem to have minds of there; OR
            2) You get totally bizarre nonsense as from likes of Bachmann, Glenn Beck, Rush, to some extent Ron Paul- How can anyone not heavily medicated listen to that for 1/2 hour straight?

            Don’t  watch MSNBC often.

            As far as Fox “news”, good journalism rarely has much to do with ratings.

              Fox “news”, in it’s total pretense of “fair and balanced”, has been an effective propaganda mechanism for a political party- I’ll grant you that.
             

        • Gregg

          I don’t assume most people can’t click on a link and see where it takes them. I promise I’m not attempting to hide YouTube. The sources are right there, from the horses mouth. A video of black on black hate, in their own words t’boot. I suppose for liberals there’s nothing worse than a very successful, very black conservative.

          • Hidan

            Is that what it was? The first stated “they can’t argue with Herman Cain on the merits” As even Rob has pointed out. What merits? his 999 plan? his boarder fence that zaps illegals he first said was a joke than said it wasn’t?Even Rob admits the high Tech lynching is ridiculous which was made of course by Brent Bozell. While the video uses a most likely black female voice the claims and charges were started by Brent Bozell. Than uses the voice of the intelligent and non racist Rush L. who always tells the truth.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Brent_Bozell_III

            http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45114088/ns/politics-decision_2012/t/key-conservative-voices-rally-cain/#.TrawT3Lrosw

            More on Brent.

            http://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnns-ronald-martin-challenges-mrcs-brent-bozell-for-calling-herman-cain-scandal-a-lynching/

            “The note he concluded on offended Martin, who had previously brought up the topic on Twitter, tweeting a graphic reminder of what lynchings actually look like. Martin told host John King
            that CNN should show the photo for a comparison, and made that
            comparison himself in words: “when you saw black men hanging from trees,
            their bodies burned– that’s a lynching. A lynching is not when you have
            Herman Cain standing in front of the National Press Club singing
            ‘Amazing Grace.’” To Martin, the use of the word highlighted an attempt
            by conservatives to “shift the conversation away from Herman Cain and
            make it a race discussion– it’s not.” It was not a lynching, Martin
            concluded, but “big boy politics;” when one runs for president, one’s
            past becomes a factor.”

          • Greggless

            Like wit, your sarcasm doesn’t play well either

    • Greggless

      Who taught you how to do that?

  • david

    The Democrats push for infrastructure spending to boost the US economy and claims the Repubs. are standing in the way of THEIR ONE jobs bill! 
    The House Repubs. have 15 jobs bills being held up by Harry Reid and the Demo-majorooo Senate. All this is political, a election year coming, I will not vote for a bill unless it is sponsored by MY PARTY!
    We have already had shovel ready job bills in the pass that failed!
    BUT! this is an election year! lets try it again!
    My town had three so-called govt/taxpayer paid projects, along with the big sign out front with Obama’s name on it, a bridge, a water line addition and a sewer upgrade. A great thing for our community?
    It was also great for Mexico, because they furnished 90% of the labor for all three projects!
    Before you throw money into these projects, demand the jobs go to Americans!

    • ulTRAX

      There’s an approach BOTH parties refuse to talk about… it has two simple provisions… REPEAL FREE TRADE and get Wall Street away from speculating and back to investing in America.

      • david

        While we are on the invest in America.
        Like it or not we are in a world economy.
        The problem with America or I should say our government, is we want everyone to be our friends. We will kiss their butts (foreign aide) to keep their friendship.
        They pay their workers $100/mn. to make the same screwdriver that we pay our guys $100/day to make. Then they use the screwdriver to screw us out of our jobs.
        Europe has been on this socialist kick for decades, you know the same one we want to become, and it has proven to be a FAILURE!
        So!!!! to remain friends with this bunch (Greece, Ireland, etc) we send taxpayer money to them to bail them out of their failed socialist dream in the form of our 17% part in the IMF!!
        Capitalism to the rescue!!
        It also will be just a bandaide that will fail also.
        More taxpayer money down the drain.

        • Michiganjf

          Yeah, Socialism has proven to be such a failure in Europe that Germany has more than enough money to take care of their entire population, then bail out the REST of Europe to boot!!

          Try again brainiac!

          When done correctly, as the SMARTER Europen nations have PROVEN they can do, Socialism puts all other systems to shame in terms of personal freedoms and looking out for ALL citizens.

          Are you saying these nations can DO IT RIGHT, but Americans are just too dumb-ass to have the same kind of success?

          Yep, that’s what I thought you were saying!

          • Michiganjf

            Of course, with Republicans retaining any kind of say in our government, we never will get anything right!

          • david

            History has proven your point a failure.
            Given more time you will see it fail again.
            The problem is that it is never done correctly!!
            When some people are proven wrong they resort to name calling!
            I agree, if Americans buy into the socialism lie, like you have, then maybe they are, as you say dumb-@#3* 
             

          • ulTRAX

            If you’re looking for economic failures you don’t have to look much further than here in the US. Our economic collapse was caused by RIGHT WING ideas on free trade and deregulation. Yes, I know Clinton bought into this insanity, but they were REPUBLICAN IDEAS. But you never see the GOP take any responsibility. They’ve played the diversion game pointing the finger of blame elsewhere to protect policies that benefit their rich constituents. Even though the evidence is quite clear, you obviously buy into to their bullcrap… and guess what… You see no remorse or second thoughts from the Right. And if back in power THEY’RE GOING TO DO IT AGAIN!!  

          • Michiganjf

            Ha!

              Obviously, that’s the best you can do…

            “Sure, it’s working GREAT for them now and has for fifty years, but some day, say, around an as yet UNFORESEEN future, it’s going to go against them somehow.”

            As I say, typical Right-wing “Brainiac!”

          • Michiganjf

            I’ve got to quote “NoMoreLies” below because it’s too perfect here:

            “‘If the EU is “failing” then how can the EU find the money to bail out Greece? And if the US capitalism is doing so great, why did Bush have to bail out the Wall Street banks to the tune of 800 BILLION? ‘”  

            Nice! 

          • DumbDumb

            Current events have proved our current system is a failure.

          • ulTRAX

            Let’s see if we can understand your “logic”. The US system collapsed because of unregulated capitalism… but the social democracy of Germany was doing pretty well. 

            So in your mind that’s PROOF our collapsed economic model is inherently superior to Germany’s social democratic model?

            Are there any non-braindead conservatives out there?  

          • William

            Our system is in trouble because of a massive corrupt federal government. They ordered banks to loan money to people that could never pay back the loans. The government continues this policy to this day despite the massive amount of economic destruction it has brought to millions of Americans. Liberalism has almost destroyed our economy and country.

          • ulTRAX

            Bullcrap. No one “ordered” banks to loan to those who could not pay. The CRA only stopped banks from NOT loaning to CREDIT WORTHY people in redlined districts. Most subprime loans were made by companies like Countrywide who collected the big commissions, then dumped the bad loans on Wall Street.Of course you’re leaving Bush out of the picture. I know, it’s so silly of me to even think he played a roll even though the housing mess occurred during HIS WATCH. If there were problems with Fannie and Fredie, HE’S the one who failed to act. You can try to blame Barney Frank, but he had no power at the time. It was the GOP who had the power to prevent reforms of those GSOs.  And let’s not forget about Bush’s Ownership Society initiative where he bragged about new programs from Fannie for those with bad credit.  Let me guess, this Bush initiative was “liberalism” at work, right?  

              

        • ulTRAX

          Where is all this socialism in Europe? There’s democratic socialism with a stong safety net and more control of corporations. One of the classic hallmarks of a socialist economy are state-owned or nationalized industries. I don’t see much of that.

        • DumbDumb

          What do you think created the mess we are in?

          Why do you think there’s hardly a middle class left in America and income inequality is at its greatest level?
           
          Capitalism to the rescue?  You haven’t a clue.

  • JonS

    Questions to Jack Beatty (and his supporters on this board): Are Republican points of view legitimate? Do you ever consider that Republicans may have honest and good faith policy differences with Obama which prompts their votes in opposition? Has Obama given up governing and instead resorted to full time campaigning? Do you ever ask why Harry Reid refuses to put up for a vote in the Senate jobs bills that have passed the House? Do you think Obama is a uniter or a divisive president? Do you think the “rich” earned their wealth? Do you think the “rich” are the cause for economic inequality? Do you think class warfare is good for the country? You often comment that a majority of voters favor higher taxes on the “millionaires and billionaires”. Why does it surprise you that so many people who won’t be paying anything  are in favor of “somebody else” paying for their benefits?

    • JonS

      additional question to Jack Beatty: do you ever wonder why Obama , if he’s serious about getting people back to work, doesn’t just sit down with Republican leadership and hammer out a bill?

      • david

        He is more concerned about getting re-elected!!!!

        • Gregg

          It’s pretty hard to deny.

          • Greggless

            Like your gargantuan perception

        • DumbDumb

          Who isn’t?

        • DumbDumb

          Really????

      • Gregg

        Good question.

        • Greggless

          Relentless observer and astute contributor

      • ulTRAX

        If the GOP is serious about getting people back to work why aren’t they proposing any REAL solutions instead of trying to exploit the job crisis for further their political agenda of sabotaging the EPA etc?

        The EASIEST way to improve the job situation WOULD COST THE GOVERNMENT NOTHING: repeal free trade and force Wall Street to invest in America instead of sucking the life out of the economy with high commodity prices created by their speculation.

        • William

          Free trade agreements should be scrapped and replaced with fair trade agreements. Government should be downsized by 25 percent, at least, and spending set at 2008 levels for at least ten years. Pull the troops out of overseas locations where we don’t own the land. These are a good first start.

          • ulTRAX

            Progress is being made…. William is finally going against his GOP overlords.

    • Anonymous

      Good faith? What a joke. The republicans have had it in for Obama from day one. Your shallow attempt to place blame for the obvious obstructionist and sometimes down right crazy nonsense that the GOP members of both houses have been engaged in is a really laughable. The question about the rich earning their wealth is also a load of crap. Not one person in this country has become wealthy without the help of society. If you became wealthy through manufacturing goods you used roads payed for by tax paying citizens. The city and towns where these businesses are are protected by police and fire departments paid for by the citizens.

      You think you’re being clever by using generalized easy sound bytes and divisive language. It’s clear to me that you’re agenda is extreme and right wing.  Class warfare is a classic example of this divisive language. You don’t fool anyone with this crap.

      • david

        I bet if you took the time to research it, you would find that the wealthy pay their share of taxes for roads, education, fire and police protection.
        You must hate the Gates and the (late) Jobs types. I bet you refuse to have a computer with Microsoft or even a IPhone.
        I am sure you feel that they did not deserve to earn their millions.
        Obama started this class warfare carp and you have bought into it hook, line and sinker!

        • ulTRAX

          Obama started class warfare? ROTF The Orwellian Right been accusing the Dems of class warfare card since the 80′s even as the Right has waged a vicious war in BEHALF of the rich. The Dems have been pretty cowardly in their response all these years afraid of getting beaten up by the rabid Right. Even Obama’s moderate suggestion to go back to Clinton era tax rates is pretty tepid. What are we really talking about… less than a 5% increase in the tax rate? Was Bush1 playing the class card when he raised the top rate from 28% to 35%? Was Clinton playing the class card when he brought the top rate to $39.6%.

          Why is it even though Bush pushed through SIX ROUNDS of tax cuts even while we were over SIX TRILLION in debt… was HE not playing the class card in BEHALF of the rich? After all, all tax cuts that a passed while in debt with no intention of recouping that lost revenue later are nothing but BORROWING. Why when revenues in real dollars have been virtually FLAT for a decade, isn’t that an indication that we need to raise the tax rate to recoup some of that revenue that NEVER should have been lost?

          I know I’ve asked this question and the dittoheads here refuse to deal with it. In the past 30 years we pissed away some $13.5 TRILLION on ourselves we didn’t have the decency to tax ourselves for. So who in hell should pay for OUR debt? Our kids? Our grandkids? I think WE should pay for our own mistakes.

          • William

            It does not matter how high the taxes are if there are no spending cuts. The government is just too big and needs to be downsized.

          • ulTRAX

            I can make the other argument, it doesn’t matter how much spending cuts we make if the GOP keeps slashing revenue.

            Are you gettin’ it yet Einstein that there are TWO variables in a budget? Didn’t think so.

        • ulTRAX

          We the People have pissed away some $13.5 TRILLION on ourselves the past 30 years that WE REFUSE TO TAX OURSELVES FOR. Given this debt…. pray tell, how have ANY of us paid our fair share let alone the rich?

          WHO SHOULD PAY FOR OUR IRRESPONSIBILITY?  

          • david

            If you would like to see who has #@% away some of your $14.8 Trillion, come to my state and I will show you some of that 47% who have no IRS tax liability doing so. I have paid my FAIR SHARE of taxes over 40 years of work while watching the moocher class reap what they were too lazy to sow.
            Total tax percentage paid by the average US citizen, 2009 est. – 57.7% of their income!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
            http://nowandfutures.com/taxes.html

            Given this info. on all the taxes you pay from all sources, how much more do you want to pay???????

          • ulTRAX

            Let me see if I understand your “logic”. Bush cuts taxes… and brags his tax cuts take 5 million poor taxpayers off the income tax rolls. THEN the right wing claims HEY!!!! Look how the rich pay a bigger percentage of the (now smaller) tax pie… and look at all the moochers paying no income taxes!!!!! Hey!!! It’s unfair for the rich!!!

            Gee… if the tax law is unfair to the rich, then what’s the obvious “solution’? Cut taxes even more!!!

             As for that site… figures don’t lie (I’m assuming their figures are accurate) but liars can figure. As your right wing buddy Gregg wrote last week… Bill Gates sits in on a classroom and the average income is $100 million… or some such. It’s as dishonest as the Tax Foundation declaring Tax Freedom Day… the day the “average” person is no longer paying any taxes. Of course the intent is not to educate but to deceive. That average includes all the higher taxes paid by the wealthy and filthy rich. But they know the “takeaway” of any gullible right winger like yourself is that YOU pay all those taxes.

            Do you EVER resent being lied to with the hope you’ll vote against your own interests?

            Guess not.

          • david

            I bet if you worked your butt off like Gates and came up with a product that made you rich, you would have a different opinion on this site concerning the evil rich people.

          • DumbDumb

            Gates = ‘evil rich people’ – now you’re talking.

          • DumbDumb

            Almost 2/3s of the American corporations and almost 3/4s of the foreign corporations in America do not pay any federal income taxes. 

            A few more exclamation points always help your case.

          • William

            We did not do it, Congress and the President did it and I don’t feel any responsiblity to give the same group of thugs anymore of my money.

          • ulTRAX

            Sorry Spanky… you ARE one of We The People… and it was YOUR guy Bush who sabotaged debt paydown with irresponsible tax cuts and spending. So pray tell… I can play your game too: WHY SHOULD I PAY FOR POLICIES YOU SUPPORT AND I DISAGREE WITH?

      • JonS

        I struggled over whether it was worth my limited spare time to respond to such garbage. Sorry but ” from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs” may play well in Cambridge and Berkeley and with  Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren but not with me.

    • Fredlinskip

      I assume when you speak of “so many people who won’t be paying anything… in favor of ‘somebody else’ paying for their benefits”, you refer to those “individuals” known as corporations?

         No, class warfare is not good for the country- we definitely need go back to policies that encouraged growth for all segments of society- Not just the privileged few.  

         Obama divisive? Have you ever heard of a guy named George W Bush, by any chance?

         Obama spent 7 years attempting to “work with GOP”- it hasn’t worked- that’s why he needs go directly to American people.
       
        Does it surprise you that 75%+ of Americans (some of these 1%ers), favor taxes for millionaires and billionaires? Cutting spending on programs workers have paid into their entire lives, is not going to be enough to cut trillions in debt-
         Lets try returning to tax policy America maintained in more prosperous (for all) times- just for a change of pace. We’ve tried the alternative long enough- it hasn’t worked

      And no, IMO there seems very little legitamacy to Republican points of view- these views seem largely fact-free, smoke, mirrors, and hypocrisy. 

      • JonS

        What’s really surprising is that 99% of all people do not support taxing the 1%, not that 75% do.

        Are you serious about Obama reaching out to Republicans? Do you recall when Obama demogogued Paul Ryan’s serious budget proposal at a meeting that Obama invited Ryan to attend. What about Obama’s conference with Dems and Republicans prior to passage of Obamacare. I’ve never seen such arrogance displayed by a politician , let alone president.

        Obama is the most divisive president of my lifetime. In the past 3 years he has demagogued the teaparty, insurance companies, big pharma, doctors, oil companies, the US chamber of commerce, owners of corporate jets, Boeing, Republicans , fat cats on Wall street ( despite being its biggest benefactor), Sarah Palin, Fox News,rural Pennsylvanians who “love their guns and religion”, etc, Need I go on?

        Corporations are voluntary organizations of people. With capital supplied by risktakers they hire new employees, buy plants , machinery and equipment  , buy raw materials etc . If they don’t pay corporate taxes , they’ll have more money to hire , expand , grow and invest. Corporate profits are taxed when profits are distributed to shareholders. Why care if companies pay little or no taxes. The real issue is whether corporate profits should be taxed once or twice. Liberals need to get over it.

        • Gregg

          Also the Cambridge police department and doctors who amputate for profit.

          • Greggless

            I’ve got some world series ticket to sell to you – real cheap

        • Fredlinskip

           In your original comment you infered you weren’t supportive of further taxation of 1% ers as you think this equates to tax warfare? No?
          Your reply comment states, “what’s really surpising is that 99% of all people do not support taxing the 1%, not that 75% do.” 
          What are you saying here?- You believe what 99% democratic majority believes means nothing?  all that matters is the 1%?

          Jon- I believe we all have a right to our views. I get a little jaded at times because I believe so strongly that GOP priorities are what brought down this country and threaten to bring it down further.
          Now maybe you believe the opposite. Fair enough.  
          If we are capable of talking to and not by eachother, we’ll be “one up” on congressmen that Americans apparently love to hate.

          You asked, in original comment, “Do you think the rich earned their wealth”. I think the wealthy have too large a hand in influencing policy decision that ultimately enriches them further to the detriment of majority of Americans, our environment, foreign policy, etc.

          In studying our country’s short history it seem fairly apparrent that when tax rates on the wealthy were higher- the deficit was lower, employment higher, better infrastructure, better educational opportunity existed, environment better protected and maintained, etc.  ……. And the wealthy were still plenty wealthy.

          Corporations, we are told, are sitting on trillions of $- GOP strategy is if we just tax them less they’ll start hiring.
          I would contend that the bulk of new hiring comes from small companies and new start-ups- these are the companies we should be encouraging.

          For years American seemed to idolize executive salaries many 100′s of times of those actually producing the good and/or service- I think that’s way out of line. Since 1973 average hourly wages have not grown at all. If those producing the good or service had been compensated more fairly our economy would not be in the position it is in- because consumer spending is what propels the economy -not spending of 1%ers.

          I believe Obama HAS gone out of way to work with Reps- Matter of fact he has compromised way to much. W on other hand never made any pretense of trying to work with Dems.

  • Michiganjf

    William,

    HUGE, HUGE DIFFERENCE… Dems don’t parade around like hypocrites, touting “family values” and the “sanctity” of heterosexual marriage as holy grails, then get busted cheating on their wives or meeting in airport bathrooms for gay trysts.When Dems show THAT kind of exclusively REPUBLICAN HYPOCRISY, then you can draw a moral equivalent.

    • William

      JFK included in your little rage?

      • david

        Is Bill Clinton included in your little rage??

        • DumbDumb

          Rage against the machine.

      • Michiganjf

        That’s exactly correct!

        Neither JFK NOR Clinton “‘ paraded around like hypocrites, touting “family values” and the “sanctity” of heterosexual marriage as holy grails, , then [got] busted cheating on their wives or meeting in airport bathrooms for gay trysts.’”
         
         
         
         
        I’ll repeat it for you:
         
        “When Dems show THAT kind of exclusively REPUBLICAN HYPOCRISY, then you can draw a moral equivalent.”

        • david

          The problem with the Dems is they have no moral equivalent. They stand and practice all the bad habits right in front of the whole world and fellow Dems. applaud their actions.
          Bill Clinton, aka; “President of the World”, has 7 recorded sexual charges in his holy grail, some were forcible rapes, yet! he is held up by Dems. as the best President!!!
          I will agree, the Repubs. have no moral equivalent to Bill!!

          • ulTRAX

             
            More partisan deflection to get attention away from all the family values GOPers who were shown to be blatant hypocrites.

          • DumbDumb

            So, Clinton was really a closet Republican.  And your point is?

        • William

          So, if a President like JFK and Clinton cheat on their wives, no problem, that is a standard of acceptable conduct for a Liberal. Just so JFK and Clinton are “Liberal first”, nothing else matters.

          • Michiganjf

            Kind of dense, aren’t you?

            A huge percentage of people in America (and the world) are unfaithful to their spouse… that’s one thing, and it should be a private matter.

            It’s ENTIRELY another matter for someone to go around and, FOR THE THIRD TIME, tout  “‘family values’ and the ‘sanctity’ of heterosexual marriage as holy grails, , then [got] busted cheating on their wives or meeting in airport bathrooms for gay trysts…THAT kind of exclusively REPUBLICAN HYPOCRISY, then you can draw a moral equivalent.”   

            Get it yet?  

          • William

            That is total nonsense. If the President is going to cheat on his wife how can he be trusted by the people that voted for him or any country he has to deal with?

          • ulTRAX

            AGAIN….

            But Newt is also a lech and a scoundrel!  I can’t wait to see your moral indignation at work lecturing Gregg who supports Newt for Prez… that there’s no way in Hell Newt is fit to be president.  Congratulations! Obviously YOUR moral standards are not just higher than decadent Libs, but of many GOPers.

          • ulTRAX

            But Newt is also a lech and a scoundrel!  I can’t wait to see your moral indignation at work lecturing Gregg who supports Newt for Prez… that there’s no way in Hell Newt is fit to be president.
             
            Congratulations! Obviously YOUR moral standards are not just higher than decadent Libs, but of many GOPers.
             

  • No Alex Jones fan

    It was good to see the unemployment rate drop from 9.1% to 9%.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnIWSI2tkDM

  • Dslevy212

    Why do we have a financial system that is so unstable? This is the obvious question that no asks. Why are the economies of the world at the mercy of the Greek economy?

    How much money could foolish bankers possibly have lent to a small country like Greece? Did the bankers continue to flush billions and billions down into oblivion? Then let them take their losses. Let the Greeks default and let the investors who lent to Greece take their losses.

    When will we learn that all of this socially useless financial engineering serves only to enrich the elite, while the rest of us pay for their greedy mistakes. All of this financial engineering should be made illegal.  

  • CircusClowns

    When the ring masters of the circus have the audience arguing about which bozo the clown (presidential candidate) is better, then you will know why the men punching your ticket and running the concessions have a sly smile – because they got your number and have you exactly were they want you.

  • david

    How do you judge the quality of a movement???
    “OWS Oakland”
    I predicted last week they would go violent, they did!

    • ulTRAX

      Look, there are all kinds of groups that have a similar anti-corporate agenda. Just because some anarchists want confrontation doesn’t mean all of OWS does any more than all the Tea Party is racist.   

      • david

        That is not the same consideration that was given to the Tea Party back before there was a OWS. All I heard from this site was that the so-called teabaggers were nothing less than white racists. Go back and check!
        The OWS is anti-capitalism and made up of some very radical groups who would love to see the birth of the United Socialist States of America!

        • ulTRAX

          I don’t doubt OWS will attract some anti-capitalist elements. But hey, it’s not as if capitalism has been working that well the past decade years. The jobs are leaving America, the wealth is flowing to the top, Wall Street makes money now through skimming operations like high speed trading instead of investing in business, Wall Street is speculating on commodities and has become a parasite on the economy with $4 a gallon gas, greedy sociopaths crashed the economy for ALL of us yet want their million dollar bonuses. Then there are our bought and paid for politicians… Democrat and Republican that not only allowed it happen, but refuse to put any of these financial criminals in jail, and continue to approve more free trade agreements. 

          Admit it or not, there’s PLENTY to be mad about.

          The GOP shows no second thoughts, no remorse over the economic crash THEIR policies caused. The Tea Party was the perfect diversion to get the right wing base to instead focus on some phony issues like death panels, and Obama being a socialist. The GOP has gotten away with convincing the base that they are blameless for any and all problems we have. They claim the crash was caused by minorities lying to get mortgages, and Barney Frank. All the problems started when Obama took office.

          Think of the contempt they have to have for you to peddle these lies and distortions. Obama is the bad guy and Bush and the GOP are off the hook! If they get away with this rewriting of history, think of the destruction these crazies will do next time if you support them without question and they get back into power.

          I think both major political parties in the US are dysfunctional and intellectually dishonest. But the GOP is veering more and more into political psychosis.  

          • david

            This problem started decades ago when the voters allowed the government to start running deficits!!!!!!!!!!
            You blame the Repubs. for the economic crash on “THEIR policies”, while less finger pointing at the Dems., not even Barney Frank or back when, Lawyer Obama, helped by suing banks to drop their regulation on loans given to minorities that got this ball rolling.
            That started the crappy loans and wall street played their hand. It started with demand from the public for 0% down loans and idiots buying houses to big for their wallets!
            They got their wish, we are now reaping the results!! 
            I blame BOTH PARTIES and the moocher public for the problem.
            I prepared for this collapse back in the 90′s when it was predicted by a economist that it was coming. He was laughed at then.
            I only defend the Repubs. because you guys blame only them a majority of the time.
            By most of you on this site, I am nothing more than a moroon conservative.
            That is okay, I saw the mess coming, I got out of debt, I stayed out of debt and I saved!! I played the market and lost some but made more.
            I am now preparing for what else is coming!

          • ulTRAX

            Lots of claims… no sources. You DO know what a credible source and a URL are, right? Need help cutting and pasting?

          • ulTRAX

            Look, the reason I blame the right is because free trade and deregulation are RIGHT WING IDEAS. It’s the RIGHT that wants industry and banking to be free of government regulation not the Left. Though he was a Dem, Clinton surrounded himself with corporate hacks and bought into many of these right wing ideas.  

            And the empirical proof is in the votes. If you look at NAFTA the origins are with the GOP and if you look at the votes, the support is virtually all from the GOP and corporate Dems. Virtually all of the opposition is from Democrats. You can that take that personally if you want but it’s really an empirically-based argument.  

            THAT’S why I blame the Right… which is NOT to say I have much respect for the Dems beyond being the lesser of the evils. In that vein I don’t have much respect for Obama because he failed to do what was necessary: break the power of Wall Street, break up the big banks, put the scum in jail, and move Wall Street away from speculation into investing. As a president Obama’s barely tolerable but the idea that the GOP… WHICH HAS LEARNED NOTHING from the crash of the Bush economy would be better is laughable. When I see some remorse or second thoughts from the Right, instead of rushing to blame everyone but themselves, they might have some more credibility.

              

          • david

            History my friend, about your Bill Clinton and NAFTA.
            “The passage of NAFTA was one of Clinton’s first major victories as the first Democratic president in 12 years–though the movement for free trade in North America had begun as a Republican initiative.
            It was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on December 8, 1993 and entered force January 1, 1994. Although it was signed by President Bush, it was a priority of President Clinton’s, and its passage is considered one of his first successes”
            It you would take the time to research it, you would also find you are mistaken about the so-called Clinton surplus.

          • DumbDumb

            Clinton carried our Republican initiatives as does Obama.  And your point is?

          • DumbDumb

            ‘Moocher public’? What percentage of the 99.9% is that?

        • DumbDumb

          Your inaccurate assumptions are as frequent as your exclamation points.

          • david

            And your response reflects your name!

          • ArnoldWalker

            Same with ultra-tax…

          • Dearnold

            Inferior wit, as usual

          • Dearnold

            Inferior wit, as usual

          • DumbDumb

            The reflection was on you

    • DumbDumb

      How do you judge the quality of our economy?

      By the economic violence our government has allowed the banksters to perpetuate on the people they supposed to serve?

    • ArnoldWalker

      The ignorant go for violence every time, especially when their cause is unjustified.

      • ArnoldZiffel

        I agree. Tell that to the Bush administrations: Iraq, Afghanistan

        • ArnoldWalker

          See above Ethel.

          • Dearnold

            Ethel? Typical gender attack – that’s so Modavations and Zing

      • ulTRAX

        ROTF… no Einstein, as we see here every day, the ignorant such as yourself just try to convince others their ignorance came down on a slab.

  • ulTRAX

    Rob in NY asked: “How can you honestly claim that there is not a liberal bias at the MSNBC or Huffington Post?”   

    Just what is a political bias?

    Sometimes accusations of political bias are thrown about when the policies of a political party are criticized. But what if those criticisms are justified? Imagine a REASONABLE fiscally conservative looking back at the last decade. Bush ran on tax cuts, but preserving the Clinton Surplus and paying down which then was close to six trillion dollars.

    Perhaps those tax cuts could have waited until there was proof the surplus would last many years or until some large percentage of the debt was paid down.

    Yet once in office Bush passed SIX ROUNDS of tax cuts even though the on-budget surplus was gone by 2001 thus the rational for it was also gone. All this time the debt was increasing.

    Now we see that in real dollars revenues have been virtually flat for a DECADE… and the Bush increased the debt by some 5 TRILLION.

    The GOP now insists what were clearly fiscally irresponsible tax cuts should NEVER be revisited and allowed to expire. Though there are two variables in a budget… revenue and spending, new revenue is off the table and only spending cuts are acceptable.

    Would not any REASONABLE fiscally conservative say GOP fiscal policies made no sense and were irresponsible?

    • ulTRAX

      And let’s no forget that the House GOP approved the Paul Ryan budget which would do NOTHING to improve revenues and set in cement our generation’s theft of $13.5 trillion from our kids and grandkids.

      Such immoral ementia is what passes for the fiscal conservatism of the GOP these days.

  • ArnoldWalker

    We are Europe, remember July?  We’ve been spending too much and it is only a matter of time before our twisted financials come under fire again.  We need to cut spending before interest rates start going up and conditions really deteriorate.

    • ArnoldZiffel

      It’s obvious you don’t know what your talking about – spending is what creates and maintains economies. 

      • ArnoldWalker

        Not debt-fueled spending Nancy!

        • ArnoldZiffel

          Tell that to the Bush administrations

          • ArnoldWalker

            Great, lend me your time machine Shirley.  Otherwise wake up!

          • ArnoldZiffel

            Every corporation runs on debt-fueled spending – they are called bonds.  What are you, some sort pansy communist

          • ArnoldWalker

            Corporate leverage is a fraction of government, do you know what a balance sheet looks like?  Are there no intelligent libturds?  Don’t think so.

          • ulTRAX

            Let me guess… corporations don’t see revenue as important????

          • ArnoldWalker

            They do, especially b/c they have to earn it.  They dont’ have possibility to confiscate it willy-nilly to support uneconomic programs that grow constantly and last forever.

          • ulTRAX

            Gee, our generation has pissed away 13.5 TRILLION on ourselves that we REFUSED TO PAY FOR. Quite the free lunch. Yet Arnie actually believes we’re overtaxed. Thanks for another example of just how spoiled rotten the GOP base has become.   

          • Dearnold

            ‘Confiscate it willy-nilly’ – typical technical term by Modavations and Zing

          • ulTRAX

            Hey Einstein… didn’t you learn in grade school that double negatives cancel each other out?

          • Gregg

            Did you feel silly when you realized there was not a double negative in Mr. Walker’s post?

          • ulTRAX

            Not as silly as you when you see you missed it.

          • Gregg

            Playing grammar cop always bites you in the butt. There isn’t no double negative in the comment. Jerk.

          • ulTRAX

            Thanks again for proving you’re not the brightest blub in the light store.

          • Gregg

            Irony so thick you could cut it with a knife. LOVE IT!!

          • ulTRAX

            Duh! I almost missed it. So Gregg… you agree with me!!!

          • Greggless

            ‘Isn’t… no’, grammatical justice. Beautiful.

          • Gregg

            Went right over your head, didn’t it? There’s not no double negative in Mr. Walker’s post. I’m trying to help here.

            Do you not know (not a double negative) what a double negative is?  Apparently ulTRAX doesn’t.

          • Dearnold

            Libturds?  Childish name calling – that’s so Modavations and Zing

          • ulTRAX

            God you’re thick Arnie. ZA was talking about PRINCIPLE not scale. Do try and pay attention.

          • ulTRAX

            What TF are you babbling about Arnie?  THE BUSH DEBT IS STILL WITH US. It didn’t go away just because Obama took office. And most of Bush’s irresponsible tax cuts are still law.

            So take your own advice Einstein… and WAKE UP!!!

          • ArnoldWalker

            Obama’s annual deficits are considerably bigger, and he’s still around.  My advice to him, cut spending.  My advice to you, get a clue.  Are there no intelligent libturds on this board?

          • ulTRAX

            Gee, Bush was handed a surplus and gave us $5 TRILLION in new debt. He had a fair economy for 7.5 of his 8 years So despite being a fiscal dunce, OF COURSE HIS DEFICITS WERE SMALLER.

            And OF COURSE Obama’s deficits are bigger. If not for government spending the collapsed Bush economy would have spiraled out of control. Am I happy with the way Obama has handled things? No. He should have broken the back of Wall Street power when he had the chance, broken up these banks, put the scum in jail, and got Wall Street back to investing instead of being parasites. Obama should have started to reverse free trade.

            The notion that the GOP approach to a collapse of the financial sector would have worked is laughable since it was their ideas THAT CAUSED THE CRASH.

          • Dearnold

            Libturds?  Adolescent name calling – so Modivations and Zing

          • Dearnold

            Shirley?  Attacking gender – that’s so Modavations and Zing

        • ulTRAX

          Debt/deficts are NOT entirely dependent on ONE variable… spending. Debt/deficits also reflect REVENUE. Only one who subscribes to some dysfunctional fiscal dementia would claim otherwise… especially if in real dollars revenues have been virtually FLAT for a DECADE…  

          Don’t you EVER resent being LIED to by the Right?

          Obviously not.  

          • ArnoldWalker

            If only we had kept spending flat, you wouldn’t be so desperate to steal working people’s hard-earned income to fund more $16 muffin parties.

          • ulTRAX

            The $16 muffin story has been debunked. PLEASE try to get your news from reliable news sources:

            “…we determined that our initial conclusions concerning the itemized costs of refreshments at the EOIR conference were incorrect and that the Department did not pay $16 per muffin.”http://www.justice.gov/oig/reports/plus/a1143.pdf 

          • ulTRAX

            What? No retraction from Arnie? Just crickets!!!

            Bet he’ll be back babbling about muffins in a couple days.

          • ulTRAX

            Gee Arnie you continue to EVADE the simple point that in the last $30 years We The People pissed away some $13.5 TRILLION on ourselves that we refuse to pay for. We’re the goddamn free lunch generation and people like you whine about paying too much in taxes while fixated on NPR and $16 muffins WHILE BEING SILENT ON THE $2.9 TRILLION BUSH PAID JUST FOR INTEREST ON THE DEBT.

            Are there any non-braindead right wingers out there?

            Didn’t think so.

          • Dearnold

            Inappropriate accusations – that’s so Modavations and Zing

          • Terry Tree Tree

            WHY didn’t ‘W’ and his party, keep spending flat??

        • ulTRAX

          Gee, Reagan spent close to $2 TRILLION we didn’t have…

          Why do I suspect you give Reagan and Bush2′s fiscal irresponsibility a free pass?  

        • Dearnold

          Snide gender remark? That’s so Modivations and Zing

      • Gregg

        That’s hogwash.

        • Greggless

          Like I said, wit is not your strong suit – there must be an element of truth or intelligence involved. 

          • Gregg

            That’s BS.

          • ulTRAX

            Another brilliant argument made by another brilliant right winger.

          • Greggless

            Brilliant reply, as usual.

    • ulTRAX

      There are TWO variables in any budget: spending and revenue. Even though in constant dollars revenues have been virtually FLAT for the past decade, the GOP has been sabotaging the collective IQ of their base by insisting only spending matters. Not even Reagan, the hero of the Right, subscribed to such fiscal dementia.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Equity_and_Fiscal_Responsibility_Act_of_1982 

      Thanks, Arnie, for providing us an example of a GOP sabotaged intellect.  

      • ArnoldWalker

        Cut spending comrade!

        • ulTRAX

          Sure, cut spending. But we need to also INCREASE REVENUES.

          Thanks AGAIN Arnie, for providing us an example of a GOP sabotaged intellect.

          • ArnoldWalker

            We don’t need to increase revenues, your intellect, such as it is, is warped beyond repair.

          • ulTRAX

            And your claim is based on what Einstein? In the last DECADE using real dollars, revenues only topped Clinton’s last year in 2 of those TEN years.

            Yup… there’s no revenue problem…. and there’s no $14.5 trillion debt to pay down.

            Thanks for another example of braindead, head in the sand GOP thinking. 

            So let’s hear YOUR specific schedule on how we can not just get to an annual surplus then start to pay down debt. I want hard numbers and your schedule. I also want to know who will pay for OUR generation’s fiscal insanity? Or do you plan to dump the bill on our kids like Paul Ryan does?

            I await your pathetic evasion.
             

          • Zing

            Here’s a crazy idea…let’s cut spending until the VOTER (you remember the voter, right, pinhead?) says to stop cutting and increase revenues.

          • ulTRAX

            Gee Zing, the problem with your “solution” is you haven’t asked the voters (you remember the voters, right Einstein?) in the first place whether they want your spending cuts or not. But then I guess that’s your way of respecting voters is to impose the your will on them. And your little solution pays down debt how?   

            I give up. There are no intelligent right wingers out there.

          • Dezing

            Pinhead?  Adolescent name calling – that’s so Modavations and ArnoldWalker

          • JayB

            All the polling I’ve been seeing says a substantial majority of the voters want to see taxes raised on the rich right now.

          • Dearnold

            ‘Warped beyond repair’?  Typical argument waged by Modavations and Zing 

          • david

            Sure, cut spending. But we need to also INCREASE REVENUES only on the RICH and let the mostly Democratic base have a free ride.

          • ArnoldWalker

            They’re already up to 50% not paying federal income tax, consider those votes paid for!

          • ulTRAX

            AND WHO REMOVED SO MANY FROM THE INCOME TAX ROLLS?????

            This is the typical Orwellian Right logic. Bush BRAGGED about taking 5 million people off the income tax rolls then the Orwellian Right paints them as freeloaders and how the tax code is now unfair to the rich.
             

            What’s the solution? Cut taxes on the rich, of course!!!

          • Dearnold

            Not nearly enough.  You’ve got to compete with the nearly 2/3 of the American corporations that don’t pay federal income tax.

          • ulTRAX

            Uh? First of all let me go on record being against ALL the Bush tax cuts. We were deep in debt when they passed and we never could afford them.

            Let me see if I get your “logic”. If there’s a surtax on the rich… you’re saying there are no rich Dems? And if, in Obama’s original proposal, taxes on those below $250k remain the same, there are no GOPers who make less than $250k?

            My god, a mind is a terrible thing to waste.

            Are there ANY non-braindead conservatives out there.

          • DumbDumb

            ‘Increase revenues only on the rich’…  pure genius.

        • Dearnold

          Comrade? Typical communist/socialist reference – total bolshevik

    • Dezing

      We are family – Modavations, ArnoldWalker and Zing

  • Hidan

    In Greggs High tech Lyncing video the video played sound bits of Conell West, Harry Bellefonte, Travis Smiley

    What Conell West response to the Blacks are brainwashed. Which Greggs Clip took from.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1HnCPPymnY

    Belafonte on Cain
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSKnzakLSOk

    Harry Belafonte Not Just Tough on Cain But Obama Too
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSKnzakLSOk

    Now watch Gregg Video and than listen to the above. Context is the bane of most conservative.

    • Gregg

      Hate in context.

      • Greggless

        Gregg in context… a terrible thing to waste.

        • Gregg

          Stop stalking me weirdo, I’m not worth your time.

  • Hidan

    Anyone hear about Cain’s illegal funding? Also as noted the links between Brent Bozell and the High Tech Lyching video he’s also linked to the Congress of Racial Equality, http://www.core-online.org/News/filibuster/filibuster2.htm

    “State firm’s cash to Herman Cain may breach federal campaign, tax laws

    http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/noquarter/state-firms-cash-to-herman-cain-may-breach-federal-campaign-tax-laws-132898423.html

    http://www.salon.com/2011/11/04/the_third_koch_brother/

    Herman Cain’s two top campaign aides ran a private
    Wisconsin-based corporation that helped the GOP presidential candidate
    get his fledgling campaign off the ground by originally footing the bill
    for tens of thousands of dollars in expenses for such items as iPads,
    chartered flights and travel to Iowa and Las Vegas – something that
    might breach federal tax and campaign law, according to sources and
    documents.

    Internal financial records obtained by No Quarter show that Prosperity USA
    said it was owed about $40,000 by the Cain campaign for a variety of
    items in February and March. Cain began taking donations for his
    presidential bid on Jan. 1.

    Prosperity USA was owned and run by Wisconsin political operatives Mark Block and Linda Hansen, Cain’s current chief of staff and deputy chief of staff, respectively.

    The authenticity of the records was verified by two individuals close to the firm.

    It is not
    known if Cain’s election fund eventually paid back Prosperity USA, which
    now appears defunct. The candidate’s federal election filings make no
    mention of the debt, and the figures in the documents don’t match
    payments made by the candidate’s campaign.

    In addition to picking up these expenses at least initially, Prosperity USA also paid as much as $100,000 to the Congress of Racial Equality,
    a conservative black organization, shortly before Cain was a featured
    speaker at the group’s annual Martin Luther King Jr. dinner in
    mid-January.

    • ChangeIsBad

      It’s evident that the concept of Cain was meant to implode.

      Funny, with all its peacocking and chest thumping the GOP can’t come up with a viable candidate for two election cycles.

      Why fix it if its already broken.

      (Or course, Ron Paul will never be passed the torch or given the notoriety he deserves.)

      I guess closet Republican Obama is as good as closet Republican Clinton.

      When the current puppet is working for you why risk any change?
       

  • ClearHead

    Cut spending?  What do you think this is – your household budget?

    When you create your own money by selling worthless paper, a balance sheet is meaningless.

    If spending cuts were deployed across the board now, the economy would go into a tail spin.

    The only time to make judicious spending cuts is when the economy is on a roll.

    Why do you think our government has been spending billions since 2008?

    To avoid another economic Depression.

    Throwing money at this mess is the only answer the Keynesian economists have.

    • ulTRAX

      If a family has monthly bills like a mortgage, rent, or a car loan, it makes no sense to cut their income because then all those payments will have to come from borrowing on the credit card. Yet, the Right has convinced its braindead dittoheads that government can do this… and it makes perfect fiscal sense!

      It’s the most cynical form of politics. It allows the Right to buy votes with irresponsible tax cuts, heap benefits on the only constituency they care about: the rich… and they know those who will be stuck paying the bill… our kids and grandkids… have NO say in the matter. While our generation in 30 years gets to spend $13.5 trillion on ourselves and not pay for it… our kids and grandkids will have to pay extra taxes and get little in return.  

      How goddamn noble.
       

  • Not an Alex Jones fan

    It’s good to see unemployment numbers coming down, despite fear-mongering haters like Alex Jones claiming that the country is in a depression.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qdh39mbC7nA&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLD828130491FC405B

    • MongeringHater

      0.1%?  Because of an August and September revision?

      That means so much to the unemployed.

      Take yourself to the prisonplanet comment board nonfan boy

  • ulTRAX

    Who said the rich are evil? If someone invents something that benefits humanity… sure… why not rewARD THEM
     
    As for Gates, funny you should mention him since he’s been in the news talking about raising taxes
     
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/nov/03/gates-urges-g20-to-introduce-tobin-tax
     

    • ulTRAX

      Every now and then this forum gets a bit quirky. This post was a response to someone… somewhere. And the above post was the draft…. heres what should have been posted.
      Who said the rich are evil? If someone invents something that benefits humanity… sure… why not reward them. Should someone become rich being a parasite or harming humanity? I’m not an Objectivist so I think not.
      As for Gates, funny you should mention him since he’s been in the news talking about raising taxes
       
      http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/nov/03/gates-urges-g20-to-introduce-tobin-tax

  • ulTRAX

    There are numerous prerequisites for self-government to work and one is that the People are rational enough to make rational decisions. It’s a sad comment on the political state of affairs in the US that IRrationality is so prevalent. Yes, I’ve debated enough Dems to know they are not immune, but it’s really the irrationality on the Right that is the most prevalent and the most virulent. But why?

    The Right has a minority agenda of protecting wealth and power. It’s NOT something they can run openly on… and unless they can attract a coalition, they’ll be in minority status forever. But if the Right can’t admit their true agenda, how do they attract a coalition?

    In the US, the Right plays the emotional cards… God, gays, guns, family, race, apple pie, and the flag. They are the experts in scapegoating and creating decisive wedge politics to exploit. They’ve formulated a narrative that justifies heaping even more wealth on the rich and why we can’t afford a civilized nation that takes care of its own people. It’s NOT a policy that will convince many of their own coalition, so they developed a secondary strategy to destroy the fiscal health of the federal government with irresponsible tax cuts and reckless spending, then use the debt they are largely responsible for as a pretense for weakening or abolishing all those New Deal and Great Society programs they’ve always opposed. To make fiscal irresponsibility seem the opposite, the Orwellian Right propaganda industry concocted numerous myths about the benefits of tax cuts for the rich… that these tax cuts created massive revenue booms and they paid for themselves. To further sabotage the collective IQ of the right wing faithful, the Orwellian Right concocted plausible but idiotic notions about finance that only spending matters. They spent 3 decades trying to create this budget crisis and they know to allow tax rates to go back even back to the Clinton era, would wreck their strategy of fiscal devastation. Last, no movement can take root unless it’s portrayed as being highly principled and trying to accomplish something positive. So they pretend to be saving the programs they hope to destroy… or they are helping the “job creators”.

    It’s a nonsensical but coherent narrative and mindless sycophants on the right have eaten it all up… and we see them here day after day.  They range from the ones that at least make an effort to back up their claims. But there is a greater number who operate on a primitive level of irrationality where they can do nothing more than throw out vaguely plausible, but not verifiable, defenses. None the less, they believe they are making devastating rebuttals… even as they deny hard facts presented to them. This level of irrationality IS a threat to the nation.

    Someone once said the first one to bring up the Nazis loses the argument. It’s nonsense. We really DO need to understand the mindset of a good percentage of the population to understand how it Nazism could take root. And if there’s one truth… it operated on a similar level of irrationally and scapegoatism the Right encourages here in the US.

ONPOINT
TODAY
Aug 1, 2014
A close up of newspaper front pages focusing on the Ebola outbreak, including a newspaper, left, reading 'Burn all bodies' in the city of Monrovia, Liberia, Thursday, July 31, 2014. The worst recorded Ebola outbreak in history surpassed 700 deaths in West Africa. (AP)

Israel-Gaza conflict heats up. The House votes to sue Obama. Ebola spreads in Africa. Our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

Aug 1, 2014
In this Wednesday, Oct. 23, 2013 file photo, Luis Mendez, 23, left, and Maurice Mike, 23, wait in line at a job fair held by the Miami Marlins, at Marlins Park in Miami. Increasingly, potential employers are turning to digital content as a way to judge job-seekers before they even apply. (AP)

They see you when you’re sleeping. They know when you’re awake. Employers move to digital assessment in hiring, firing and promotion. We’ll check in.

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Aug 1, 2014
In this Wednesday, Oct. 23, 2013 file photo, Luis Mendez, 23, left, and Maurice Mike, 23, wait in line at a job fair held by the Miami Marlins, at Marlins Park in Miami. Increasingly, potential employers are turning to digital content as a way to judge job-seekers before they even apply. (AP)

They see you when you’re sleeping. They know when you’re awake. Employers move to digital assessment in hiring, firing and promotion. We’ll check in.

 
Aug 1, 2014
A close up of newspaper front pages focusing on the Ebola outbreak, including a newspaper, left, reading 'Burn all bodies' in the city of Monrovia, Liberia, Thursday, July 31, 2014. The worst recorded Ebola outbreak in history surpassed 700 deaths in West Africa. (AP)

Israel-Gaza conflict heats up. The House votes to sue Obama. Ebola spreads in Africa. Our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

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