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Amos Oz On Israeli Life

Famed writer Amos Oz talks about the hidden truths of everyday life in Israel.

An April 14, 2008 file photo shows Israeli writer Amos Oz during a news conference in the city of Chemnitz, eastern Germany. Oz was awarded the 50,000 euro (around US$78,000) donated Heinrich-Heine-Prize 2008 awarded by the city of Duesseldorf, Germany, a jury announced on Saturday evening, June 21, 2008. (AP)

An April 14, 2008 file photo shows Israeli writer Amos Oz during a news conference in the city of Chemnitz, eastern Germany. Oz was awarded the 50,000 euro (around US$78,000) donated Heinrich-Heine-Prize 2008 awarded by the city of Duesseldorf, Germany, a jury announced on Saturday evening, June 21, 2008. (AP)

Amos Oz is at the top of the literary world in Israel. And often in opposition to Israeli policy. He’s warned for years about the corrupting effect of occupation of Palestinian territories. Pushed for a two-state solution. Argued for peace. But he knows it’s not simple when two peoples dream of the same land.

In his latest work, Amos Oz goes deep into the life of a fictional village in Israel, where people hear digging in the night. Under the house. And they don’t know why.

Up next On Point: a conversation with Israeli novelist and journalist, Amos Oz.

-Tom Ashbrook

Guests

Amos Oz, author of the new book Scenes From Village Life.

From Tom’s Reading List

The New Yorker “Amos Oz is the best-known novelist in Israel. For eighteen years, he has lived in the desert outpost of Arad, a town of twenty-eight thousand, between Be’er Sheva and the Dead Sea.”

New Statesman “Israel’s discriminatory policies based on race and religious affiliation are well documented. In 2008, Miguel d’Escoto Brockmann, then president of the UN general assembly, said that the state’s actions on the West Bank and in the Gaza Strip resembled “the apartheid of an earlier era”. Aware that he was risking censure, he added: “We must not be afraid to call something what it is.” Others, from the South African international law scholar John Dugard to Desmond Tutu, have echoed his sentiment.”

Jerusalem Post “Like so many others in Israel and Palestine, I, too, sat transfixed in front of the television screen as I listened to the speeches at the UN by US President Barack Obama, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas.”

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  • Jacob Arnon

    The New Statesman is a well know anti-Israel magazine which has been accused of printing antisemitic articles. I am not surprised that they would endorse the kind of irresponsible comments Amos Oz Likes to make. Yet they would never print the other side of the debate. They would never give the pro Israel side, not even the side that is critical of settlement building on the West Bank, as i do, but doesn’t believe that it is the main obstacle to peace. 

    The main obstacle to peace was and remains the Arab refusal to accept the Jewish State. 

    Amo on the other hand seem to live in a wonderland created by his considerable imagination. He lives in the land of Oz. 

  • Ensa

    Life for Palestinians living in the occupied territories is simular to that of a concentration camp.  Unfortunately for the Palestinians, until we have politicians in the U.S. who won’t grovel at the feet of the Israeli lobby (AIPAC, B’nai B’rith and the ADL), the Palestinians of Gaza and the West Bank will be forced to live in an unliveable ghetto.

    Bishop Desmond Tutu was 1000% right when he called Israel an Apartheid State.

    • Hidan

      A Letter from Nelson Mandela to Thomas
      Friedman

      http://www.bintjbeil.com/E/occupation/mandella.html

      Israel was not thinking of a “state” but of
      “separation”. The value of separation is measured in terms
      of the ability of Israel to keep the Jewish state Jewish, and not to
      have a Palestinian minority that could have the opportunity to
      become a majority at some time in the future. If this takes place,
      it would force Israel to either become a secular democratic or
      bi-national state, or to turn into a state of apartheid not only de
      facto, but also de jure.

      Thomas, if you follow the polls in Israel for the last 30 or 40
      years, you clearly find a vulgar racism that includes a third of the
      population who openly declare themselves to be racist. This racism
      is of the nature of “I hate Arabs” and “I wish Arabs
      would be dead”. If you also follow the judicial system in
      Israel you will see there is discrimination against

      Palestinians, and if you further consider the 1967 occupied
      territories you will find there are already two judicial systems in
      operation that represent two different approaches to human life: one
      for Palestinian life and the other for Jewish life. Additionally
      there are two different approaches to property and to land.
      Palestinian property is not recognised as private property because
      it can be confiscated.

      As to the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, there is an
      additional factor. The so-called “Palestinian autonomous
      areas” are bantustans. These are restricted entities within the
      power structure of the Israeli apartheid system.

      The Palestinian state cannot be the by-product of the Jewish state,
      just in order to keep the Jewish purity of Israel. Israel’s racial
      discrimination is daily life of most Palestinians. Since Israel is a
      Jewish state, Israeli Jews are able to accrue special rights which
      non-Jews cannot do. Palestinian Arabs have no place in a
      “Jewish” state.

      Apartheid is a crime against humanity. Israel has deprived millions
      of Palestinians of their liberty and property. It has perpetuated a
      system of gross racial discrimination and inequality. It has
      systematically incarcerated and tortured thousands of Palestinians,
      contrary to the rules of international law. It has, in particular,
      waged a war against a civilian population, in particular children.

      The responses made by South Africa to human rights abuses emanating
      from the removal policies and apartheid policies respectively, shed
      light on what Israeli society must necessarily go through before one
      can speak of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East and an end
      to its apartheid policies.

    • Dr. K

      According to the last UN Human Development Index which included Palestine, human development in PA-controlled lands was in a better shape than in most of the “3rd world” and on par with some less prosperous European countries. Palestinians have one of the highest rates of population growth in the region. Is that what a concentration camp is?

      • Ensa

        Gaza is a concentration camp.

        The Palestinians that live in the West Bank live in inhumane conditions.  Make all the excuses you want for the goverment in Jerusalem, the whole world knows that the Palestinians are suffering under the boot of Zionist occupation.

        Several prominent Rabbis have said the same as well.

  • CORY

    Abortion and Israel on the same day?  Bold play, On Point producers!  I’m afraid you leave me no choice…

    SOUND THE ALARM!  Call out the Tin Foil Hat Brigade!!!

    I’m going to stop back later this evening with an ale or lager of my choosing and peruse the cavalcade of extremity.  It will be good reading, to say the least! 

  • Hidan

    The New Statesman has it right but since, racism and bigoty has now become part of life and it’s government many firsters cry foul.

    A few facts,

    Israel has a 20% population of none jews, while making up of 20% of the population, they only live on 3% of the land in israel even know Israel constantly cries about natural growth this is only allowed for Jewish only settlements while arabs are nearly often disallow from expanding. Reason being to maintain Jewish control of Israel. half of Arab israeli live below the poverty line, are discriminated in professional  jobs where they only make up 5% in the field, Discriminated in school,housing and are considered enemies within the state.

    Within Israel is a modern day version of Jim Crow and apartheid 2.0 in the west bank. In which settlers are above the law where Palestinian can be victim of night raids, humiliation, and killing without any justice. Palestinians can have there land taken any time the military wants. Many Settlers are allowed to perform acts of Terrorism “Price Tag Policy” often supported by the IDF or the IDF looks the other way. This included burning mosques, attacking children, shooting up Palestinian villages, attacking men, women and children.

    A great example of these terrorist acts(if done someone other than a israeli jew) was Fatah U.N. bid while many of the U.S. media was concerned about violence’s by Palestinians in the west bank, it was ignoring settlers rampaging in Palestinian towns, blocking off street corners and the like.

    Some Links,

    The first is Israeli IDF soilders speaking out of the terrorism commited by fellow IDF soilders.

    http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/

    The Haredi sect has launched an aggressive campaign against the secular lifestyles of women in Jerusalem
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/21/israelandthepalestinians.middleeast1

    Lieberman’s anti-Arab ideology wins over Israel’s teens
    http://www.haaretz.com/news/elections/lieberman-s-anti-arab-ideology-wins-over-israel-s-teens-1.269489
    The youths, ages 16-18, many of them good friends from school, had stood
    for a long time before the event began at the intersection near the
    hotel, waving Israeli flags and shouting “Death to the Arabs” and “No
    loyalty, no citizenship” at passing cars.

    West Bank rabbi: Jews can kill Gentiles who threaten Israel

    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/news/west-bank-rabbi-jews-can-kill-gentiles-who-threaten-israel-1.4496

  • Hidan

    Israel’s discrimination against its Arab citizens
    http://www.middleeastmonitor.org.uk/resources/briefing-papers/1230-israels-discrimination-against-its-arab-citizens

    UN: Israel must stop discrimination against Arabs, Palestinians

    Committee slams disproportionate targeting of Palestinians, denial of right of return, harsher punishments for Arabs.
    http://www.haaretz.com/news/un-israel-must-stop-discrimination-against-arabs-palestinians-1.215158

    Israel is fulfilling settlers’ expansionist dream
    http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/israel-is-fulfilling-settlers-expansionist-dream-1.373630

    New Israeli laws will increase discrimination against Arabs, critics sayhttp://articles.latimes.com/2011/mar/24/world/la-fg-israel-arab-laws-20110324Christians Discriminated Against by Israelhttp://ifamericaknew.org/history/rel-christians.htmlIsrael’s humiliating discrimination against Arab Jews
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/bookreviews/4838496/Israels-humiliating-discrimination-against-Arab-Jews.htmlDiscrimination against Palestinian citizens of IsraelThere are more than 30 laws
    that discriminate against Palestinian citizens of Israel. directly or
    indirectly, based solely on their ethnicity, rendering them second or
    third class citizens in their own homeland.http://warincontext.org/2011/09/29/discrimination-against-palestinian-citizens-of-israel/More than seventy Palestinian villages and communities in Israel,
    some of which pre-date the establishment of the state, are unrecognized
    by the government, receive no services, and are not even listed on
    official maps. Many other towns with a majority Palestinian population
    lack basic services and receive significantly less government funding
    than do majority-Jewish towns.
    Since Israel’s founding in 1948, more than 600 Jewish municipalities
    have been established, while not a single new Arab town or community
    has been recognized by the state.

  • Hidan

    Some more info,

    http://www.aolnews.com/2010/12/29/dont-date-non-jews-letter-stirs-israel/

    Israeli
    Government Ads Warn Against Marrying Non-Jewshttp://www.jkcook.net/Articles3/0423.htm
    September 8, 2009.

     

    The Israeli government has launched a television and Internet advertising
    campaign urging Israelis to inform on Jewish friends and relatives abroad who
    may be in danger of marrying non-Jews.

     

    The advertisements, employing what the Israeli media described as “scare
    tactics,” are designed to stop assimilation through intermarriage among young
    Diaspora Jews by encouraging their move to Israel.

    Some insight as well, Jonathan Cook talks about discrimination inside and outside of Israel and polices in place to encourage/forces arabs to immigrate from Israel.

    Conversation With Jonathan Cook (Dec. 09)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzDzTA9CHng

    Jonathan Cook – Blood and Religion: Unmasking the Jewish and Democratic State

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8v7GaSjlOA

    Glad Tom and folks had the (you know what) to talk about such discrimination. Glad he didn’t invite back the Racist and bigot nadia matar who called for the assassination of President abbas to a crowd in a NY Synagogue. Applauding of course. Who some on previous threads agree with.

    Stay turn Onpoint to be called every name in the book by the firsters for messing with the Narrative

  • TrollCollector

    Here’s an idea:

    Take Monday off and let the trolls play with themselves in their own sandbox.

    Have you noticed the story lines at On Point have increasingly pandered to the more reactionary types of subject matters?

    Not only that, the associated comment pages to these stories have attracted more than the usual ignorant belligerents.

    No need to foil with these fallacy suppliers – besides their comments being unworthy of a reply – it might make for an interestingly demented read.

    While listening to NPR lately, have you notice how ‘dumbed down’ the narratives have become and how simplistic the delivery of information has become?

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Note that they haven’t stayed around for the discussion, since Oz isn’t providing any fodder for them.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

         Psssss Greg,   He’s also talking about you dude..   You’re a troll.

      • Hidan

        Interesting take since he said the same thing on the abortion thread and Week in the news.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1816544 Dan Trindade

    The portrayal of Israel in American main stream media and popular thought is that of a nation-state with a united political and ideological front. This to me seems disingenuous and uninformed. I would like to hear about the extent of political and ideological dissent and discussion in Israel and how it may be affected by both the Israeli Knesset and American foreign policy.

    • Hidan

      Hi Dan,

      Check out haaretz, though the current government is trying to censor them. There’s b’tselem a israeli human rights group, their Ynet News. There’s a few groups that consist of Israeli,Palestinian women that push for peace and equal rights. The U.S. media often ignores these women.

      I say the government is trying to censor them cause they first passed a bill that ban’s any boycotts of settlements and settler goods, but does not apply to settlers, are tightening up the Libel law there where proof is not technically required to file suit, raising the cost to newspapers and false suits.

      Here’s a good debate

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxYOEdbF1mA

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Happy has the same root as the words happen and happenstance.  They all share the element of a chance result, an accident.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Interesting–I wonder what the rules are for point of view in Hebrew literature.  Modern English novels and stories often use third person limited, but his writing sounds like omniscient.

  • Ellen Dibble

    I heard Amos Oz speaking with Charlie Rose last week, and I’m trying to recall; I think it was he prophesying that the bane of the next century (the 21st century) is/will be extremism.
         So that’s been on my mind (as I huddle under three down comforters for 36 hours due to power outage — specifically thermostat disabling due to the same).  And I don’t know what to do about extremism.
       However, when radio stations around here began to go back on air, I picked up earlier today a station out of the next state over, New York, with Pat Buchanan saying that the undoing of the United States was Vatican II, with the end of the Latin saying of Mass.  Catholicism without its rigidity is impotent.  Something like that.  America without its religious “fiber” is impotent.  Something like that.  And so without the rigidity and “extremism” we are feckless and doomed.  (Gotta go right now.)
    Okay. I’m back. It seems in the 1960s, starting with the French uprising in the streets (the civil rights movement, women’s liberation, all that), we turned from a well-behaved nation with a unifying religious, um, integrity, into a wishy-washy politically tangled mess.
    It sounded to me like Amos Oz was in favor of Israel/Palestine turning from one tangled mess, into two rather tightly integrated nations. (So maybe here we need a North, of free farmers; and a South of plantation/corporate, Republican types?)

  • Kachy16

    Thank you, thank you for this wonderful discussion with Amoz Oz and Tom.I feel so less alone in these United States when someone articulates so clearly what seems so apparent to me. It maybe my age(76) . but it is hard not to become cynical when we must engage in conversation like in the first hour-circular and pointless. I am not critical of the decision to air such a discussion. I realise that it is an important
    subject, but I am so pleased to hear hour two which makes my spirit soar. Thank you.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

    There are many reasonable voices within Israel and the Jewish community.   With that said,  I must say that zionists are the world’s most dangerous extremists, who have caused much turmoil and suffering. More dangerous and sinister than the alleged Al Qaeda.

    I agree with Jews wanting their own country, but they went about it the wrong way.  Look at USA,  Jews make up less than 2.5% of the population but their influence is just incredibly disproportionate. Between one fourth and one third of Harvard students and a greater amount of faculty are Jewish.   Their percentage in wealth and ownership of US assets is taboo to even mention in the media or conversation.   The media,  YES, and banking and finance, as well as foreign policy, is glaringly obvious.  They predominate in any presidential administration.

    SO why couldnt they have done the same in the Middle East without acting like a bull in a china shop ?  Worked the immigration into Palestine into high density areas then spread out. They would have eventually owned and controlled the place anyway, bought up land for settlements,  had all the Palestinians working for them, owned their newspapers and schools.  No need for importing Thai and Filipino workers.   They could have gradually called the place Israel without turning the Middle East into a powder keg.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      I wondered where you were today.  You asked me to point out your anti-Semitic comments.  Have a look at this one again.  You’re playing in to the old line about how Jews control the world from behind the scenes.  Do you get your notions from “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion”?

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

        Hey Greg,  this isnt anti-semitism and I did not imply that Jewish influence is “behind the scenes”.  For the most part, the facts are right out in the open.   Everyone knows it, particularly Jews themselves. 

        And obviously Americans don’t mind it that much… my point being if it was done gradually in Palestine, the Palestinians would get used to it too.

        • Hidan

          You could has used today’s example on the Palestinians bid for the

          UNESCO and how the Israeli lobby created a law U.S. law that the U.S. must de-fund U.N. organizations if they recognized Israel but no such thing exist say for Israel building illegal settlements.  Of course this is to the detriment of U.S. influence that such aid provides.  Or the P.M. of Israel received more applauds by congress than he would have in his own Knesset. Or how the U.S. is against illegal settlement building and the majority of Americans are it as well and for allowing the U.N. to recognized the Palestinians the U.S. vetod the Resolution on settlements and will veto the UNSEC recognition of Palestinian. Or you could have pointed out ahead of the Palestinian U.N. bid leaders from AIPAC and other pro-Israeli groups went to Israel to come up with a plan to stop it.

          The biggest or at least a pretty big one, is point out the U.S. threaten and cut Aid to the P.A. for peacefully going to the U.N. cause it was unilateral(even know the U.N. consist of 100+ countries) while not doing anything when the Likud government plan to build 1000k illegal homes in a illegal settlements

          • Hidan

            ” if they recognized the Palestinians ”

          • Plushkin

            yes, absolutely. Building homes is an act of war. Throwing rocks at the car moving at 60 mph and killing a man and his one year old son in the process is “devotion to comprehensive and just peace in the region”.Who can argue with that? 

          • Hidan

            Seems like the troll rolled over under the right side of the bridge. It seems by the way of your commment it’s the poor helpless israeli jew trying to live against the blood thirsty stateless non-jews. Until one adds context that is.

            One day a poor helpless NY Jew soon to be israeli jews decides that because he’s told someone who was a Israelite and lived in israel and the surronding area 3000 years ago he’s now going to move there. So he contacts another poor helpless israeli jew on getting a place. Since Tel V. is to expensive he offers him a place in the west bank. But just so happens the place he offering has a stateless blood thirsty non-jew living there. This is a problem for the poor helpless israeli jew and his poor helpless  soon to be israeli jew. So both helpless israeli jews tell the stateless blood thristy non-jew that his home and land belongs to them. Somehow the stateless blood thirsty non-jew does not buy the story about god being a Realtor. So now the  poor helpless israeli jews have a problem the stateless bloody thirsty non-jew will not leave his home. So the  poor helpless israeli jew decideds to get some more  poor helpless israeli jew and uproot the stateless bloody thristy non-jews trees,plants, fire on his home and attack the stateless bloddy thirsty wife and children. To the suprise of the  poor helpless israeli jews the stateless blood thrirsty non-jews doesn’t leave but defends himself. So the  poor helpless israeli jews call in the non-biased objective IDF to bull doze the home and arrest this stateless bloody thiristy non-jew. Finally the home is bulldozed and the now  poor helpless israeli jew to move in like God intended. While this  poor helpless israeli jew is driving is hit by a rock the son of the stateless blood thirsty non-jew and dies.

          • Plushkin

            and you call me unstable and hate-filled…
            you for sure are ready to try on shahid belt and blow up somewhere.
            God speed!  

          • Plushkin

            Paolo, you “liked” this. Can you really make sense out of this ?????
            To me it is what happens when HID-ANd-run can’t find find anything to cut and paste, so his English goes South quite a few notches and this is a sure sign of him frothing at the mouth.
            On my part I replied only to what I understood from the above masterpiece.     

          • Hidan

            The unstable and nasty Troll strikes again. Must be hard being so spiteful.What’s it like being such a hate-filled person?

            Least you tone down on stalking….. or not it seems your now stalking Paolo.

        • Hidan

          Dude watch out you got a stalking troll following you around and it’s a nasty thing.

          Found what Pluskin means on youtube.
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMEe7JqBgvg

  • Justus Gamla

    Same old Amos Oz.  He comes bearing the gift of self-abasement and interminable Jewish guilt in the misplaced belief that the NPR audience out there will embrace him.  Not so fast.  What he doesn’t realize is that the brainwashed hordes of WBUR drones are having none of it.  Who cares about the “settlements?”  What they – and their friends among Hamas want – is his house.  And his expulsion.  Mr. Oz, your guilt ridden tomes simply reinforce the blood lust of cleansing Jews from Israel.  No extremes of mea culpas will satisfy the “internationals” listening in to the show.  This script has been acted out countless times on NPR:  The Jew who points out the “bad” Jews will be spared – and, more importantly, will be loved by his enemies.  Remember Mike Gold, the author of “Jews Without Money” in 1936?  He discounted the exterminationist rantings of the Nazis, ascribing German antisemitism to “wealthy, capitalist” German Jews!  No difference here.  In both cases, the siren song of guilt is sung by a talented writer.  
    I was especially amused by the “apostate” Iranian.  Let him sojourn a while among his brothers in Gaza and lecture on the virtues of leaving Islam.  I give him about 10 hours of existence.  In Israel, on the other hand, he can sip his latte in the cafes of Tel Aviv or Jerusalem without a care in the world.  Seems that Jew hatred trumps all.
    Mr. Oz, now relegated to the lunatic Left in Israel, who sees no rockets, hears no Imams preaching genocide, and who is all too happy to point out where the “bad” Jews are hiding, will, in the end, suffer their same fate.  He’s just put it off a little longer.

    • Ellen Dibble

      Isn’t Amos a biblical name?  I’m trying to remember my Old Testament history, and it seems to me that the prophets generally told the people of Israel what they did NOT want to hear.  The same might be said of writers — particularly those who gravitate as this one does to long walks in the desert by his desert home — that they are not the vox populi.   I heard Amos Oz telling Charlie Rose that leadership is needed, simultaneously among Palestinians and Israelis, the kind of leadership that transcends popularity of the moment and pushes the voters rather than vice versa.  Leadership with vision and determination.  He doesn’t see it.  But he seems to be the sort of author who is willing to “call out” his targeted audience, although in translation I’m not sure who that is, and pay the price that Israel traditionally exacts from its prophets.  
          I didn’t hear most of the OnPoint show today, but looking at the comments — I want to know what Tom Friedman makes of this, actually.  Where should an Israeli author be exerting his talents?

      • Justus Gamla

        Quite right, Ellen.  Amos is an ancient Hebrew/Israeli name.  As the first chronological prophet (8th century BCE) he did speak truth to power, but he always declared the patrimony of the land to the Jews:”And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel,
        and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards,
        and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.
         And I will plant them upon their land,
        and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land
        which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.”I’m afraid that Mr. Oz’s “targeted audience” represents an overwhelmingly pro-Palestinian point of view, which is only natural for the listeners of WBUR.  By positing a false analogy of “peace seekers” among Jews and Arabs, he seduces that audience.  Every poll conducted among the two populations reveal one overarching desire:  Virtually all Israelis want peace.  And virtually all Palestinians want violence and the expulsion of Jews.  No one would credibly equate the KKK with the NAACP.  Why make such an equivalency in the Middle East?  The answer is simple.  The equation (which is really no equation since Mr. Oz ascribes nearly all of the blame to Jews) is “feel good” exercise for the his targeted audience. 

  • Justus Gamla

    I love Paolo Caruso’s unvarnished Jew hatred!  This is the fruit that 30 years of NPR not-so-subtle Jew bashing has produced.  Of course, there’s no mention of the offspring of billionaire Middle East oil sheikhs attending Harvard, nor of the multi-million dollar funding of Harvard’s Shariah Finance Program at Harvard, advised by one of the world’s leading racists, Taqi Usmani.  All Paolo sees are wealthy Jews.  Look up the definition of “antisemite” and Paolo’s picture is on the page. 
    Oh, and by the way, what per centage of historical Nobel Prize winners are Jews, especially the ones that have pioneered in the life sciences whose breakthroughs will no doubt save one of Mr. Caruso’s loved ones?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

      Hey Justus,   WHY DONT YOU GIVE US YOUR DEFINITION OF “ANTISEMITISM” ??   Ask Greg Camp, and if you both are stumped, go ask another intern or the older volunteers.  Maybe your supervisor.

      Obviously you falsely accused me of hatred,  and you intentionally  evaded my point.  We  are not talking about wealthy Sheiks today.

      • Plushkin

        What I really like to see is a definition of anti-semetism by YOU, our fine expert on racism and rights of all sorts of people. Would you be so kind and share your wisdom with us?

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

          I’m waiting for the Justus/Plushkin definition if you please.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

    The NPR readership should really take a moment to analyze a statement from Justus Gamla:  ” I love Paolo Caruso’s unvarnished Jew hatred ”

    Unfortunately for Justus,  there is sincerely nor factually any hatred in my statement, and certainly not as obvious to be unvarnished.   

    But for Justus,  and those like him,  do LOVE their perceived hatred., which is a phenomenon with some zionists, and often caught spraying swazstickers on their own doors and other self inflicted racist attacks. 

    Because the perpetuation of a perceived and contrived hatred is the only defense for their arrogant elitist zionist lunacy.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Edward-Boughton/1379995701 Edward Boughton

    Israeli Palestinian Conflict is simple.

     

     

    Create One Country

    If anyone agrees the Israeli and Palestinian’s lived here
    for 1000s of years then share it.

     

    Israeli Wants

    - Their Ancestral Home Land

    - Jerusalem as their Capital (Make it a separate district
    like our DC)

    - Keep All the Land as a buffer (if it was one country then
    they could)

    - Right of Immigration (fine, as long as Israeli population
    maintains only 50%)

    - Self Rule (Share 50/50 Government)

    - Security (An attack on Israel is an attack on Palestine)

    - Security Forces ( like WWII, Security Forces would be made
    up of both Israeli and Palestinian’s even a patrol of 2)

     

     

    Palestinian Wants

    - Their Ancestral Home Land

    - Jerusalem as their Capital (Make it a separate district
    like our DC)

    - Return to original boarders (if these boarder are simply
    States, then either can live on any side)

    - Right of Return (fine, as long as Palestinian population
    maintains only 50%)

    - Self Rule (Share 50/50 Government)

    - Security (An attack Palestine on is an attack on Israel)

    - Security Forces ( like WWII, Security Forces would be made
    up of both Israeli and Palestinian’s even a patrol of 2)

     

    Their Land, Their Economy and Their Security is stronger
    TOGETHER.

    • Ellen Dibble

      (I posted this as a comment by mistake; it’s meant to be a reply):
      The point about security (and prosperity) is excellent, but I don’t know how that 50% population figures.  You could legislate 50/50 government, although I’m not sure where Christians would fit in as voters, or atheists.  I mean, where they’d fit in as politicians.  You could legislate 50 percent of legislators of this faith or that, but that might not be fair if the population was tilted to one side or the other.  It would only work out if they in fact had closely aligned interests so that collaboration was possible even when 50/50 was tilting.  As to “Jewish character” of the state of Israel, the non-Jews would have to negotiate to satisfy that part of the charter.

  • Ellen Dibble

    The point about security (and prosperity) is excellent, but I don’t know how that 50% population figures.  You could legislate 50/50 government, although I’m not sure where Christians would fit in as voters, or atheists.  I mean, where they’d fit in as politicians.  You could legislate 50 percent of legislators of this faith or that, but that might not be fair if the population was tilted to one side or the other.  It would only work out if they in fact had closely aligned interests so that collaboration was possible even when 50/50 was tilting.  As to “Jewish character” of the state of Israel, the non-Jews would have to negotiate to satisfy that part of the charter.

  • Plushkin

    Pat Condell’s take on `mistreated’ Palestinians.
     
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=j1N1zhUm84w

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

    How funny is this,  Plushin has asked ME to define “anti-semitism”.

    Quite frankly,  I am confused.  But I’ll give it a try:
    Anti-semitism is:

    1. Criticizing the state of Israel and their treatment of Palestinians
    2. Mentioning Israel’s interference in international affairs.
    3. Stating valid and already published facts and statistics about the Jewsih Community in America.
    4. Presenting logical advise to the Jewish people regarding Israel.
    5. Raising uncomfortable questions in regards to Jewish matters.
    6. Being able to distinguish a jew from a gentile.
    7. Having too much insight into Jewish culture.
    8. Not adhering to blind faith in everything I’ve watched on a BCC documentary or Hollywood mini-series.
    9. Denouncing the Mossad as a bunch of sneaky murderous thugs.
    10. Asking why Bernie Madoff’s relatives are not in jail. 

    what else???

    And the irony is quite amusing.   As it seems, that Jewish intellectuals, authors, experts and academics are requisite participants on every panel of discussion in the main stream media.  They take it upon themselves to analyze and define all other cultures on the planet.  

    But Plushkin has to ask ME to define anti-semitism???  Like this Justus character, Plushkin so badly wants me to say I hate jews….but I don’t.

    • Plushkin

      stopped just short of claiming to have scores of Jewish friends… classic!
      So here your are with your usual diatribe of ever reaching Jewish conspiracy, mistreatment of poor palestinians and so on and so forth.
      typical nazi.

      • Plushkin

        oops forgot to add, that you fail Paolo. That is not what anti-semtism is. You apparently would deny even its existence. Like people you proclaim to be defending – two counts of typical nazi.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

        Plushkin….you are showing signs of neuroses.  You should have no problem finding a therapist.

        • Plushkin

          may I use yours? 

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

            I advise you not to use my definition of anti-semitism, because quite frankly,  I am not sure of it.  In fact, many Jews themselves, the one’s like Oz, Finkelstein and Atsmon, those you would call “self-hating Jews” don’t understand why they are called anti-semites. 

            I realize that you desperately want people to hate you, but I really can’t help you out on that one good buddy.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

            Oh sorry Plush,  I thought you wanted to use my definition of Anti-semitism.   You want to use my therapist. Sorry again, never had one.   

            But if I can save you at least one couch visit, I do know that most people want to be loved, you apparently want to be hated. 

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

            It does so happen Plushkin, that I have a friend that’s a psycho-therapist.  Kind of young but really nice… cute too… and she’s Jewish.  Let me know.

          • Plushkin

            bringing up jewish friends … exactly as expected – classic! Thanks Pedrillo for proving my point.

          • Anonymous

            Finkelstein and Atsmon (sic) are not “self-hating Jews” they just hate Jews period. In their sick and depraved minds they don’t hate themselves at all.

          • DontGetIt

            So, they hate their families and friends too?
             
            Or, do they just hate the entire culture and religion?

            Don’t only sick and depraved people hate?

          • Anonymous

            I’m sure they hate and despise everyone whom they disagree with. Atzmon is a vicious racist of the worst kind. That is way beyond dispute. As for the psychological state of all haters it’s anyones guess.

          • DontGetIt

            How do you know they hate and despise people who disagree with them?

            You claim Atzmon is a racist?  How so?  Is being Jewish a race?

            I thought being Jewish was identifying with a culture or religion.

          • Anonymous

            Their hatred of people who disagree with hem is more than evident in virtually every article and interview they’ve been involved with. Jews, of course, are not a race. However, hardcore Jew-haters have typically expressed their hatred in terms of Jews being a sub-human species. Thus, their hatred is a racist one. Atzmon is as racist as anyone in the KKK.

          • DontGetIt

            So are you saying, Atzmon is a ‘Jew-hater’ like anyone in the KKK?

            How could he think of his own family, friends, and heritage as from ‘a sub-human species’?

            That’s an awful lot of ‘self-hate’.  He must be narcissistic or psychotic then. 

    • HateTheGame

      Reasonable discussions can only be had by reasonable people.

      Only a clod would think you are a ‘Jew-hater’ when you are only disagreeing with the political policies of Israel and Zionism. 

      It’s difficult to criticize ‘Atheist-Zionism-posing-as-Judaism’ without having an ‘anti-semitic’ spotlight shined on you.

      Even people with a Jewish heritage aren’t seemingly allowed to question their own Israeli identity without being called, ‘self-hating’.

      For instance, read some of the book reviews for the “The Wondering Who” by Gilad Atzmon

  • Marco

    What Israel is doing to the Palestinians is genocide.

    • Plushkin

      False. Pali’s are 5th (FIFTH) fastest growing population on Earth. Israelis must really suck at genocide.     

      • Marco

        “Pali’s”?

        Israel is actually quite skilled at ethnic genocide.

        They’ve been doing it on a mass scale since 1948.

        • Plushkin

           care to share some numbers with us as well?
          One more time if Israel would have been perpetrating genocide of so-called “palestinians” since 1948  there would be none left. There were just under 1 million of ethnic arabs in the Israel proper at the time. The number of those considering themselves “palestinians” today is around 5-6 millions. Sounds like Israel is actually cultivating them and not the other way around, genius.

      • DetailsDetails

        Plushkin – Careful… your bigotry is showing.

        Actually, the Gaza Strip’s growth rate is 5th according to the CIA Factbook (2008).

        The Palestinian Territories are rated 10th in growth rate by the United Nations (2005-2010)

        Interestingly enough, the World Bank lists neither:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_growth_rate

        Here’s an interesting article on the question of genocide from the “Journal of Genocide Research” (2010):

        http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14623528.2010.529698

    • Anonymous

      Of course, you wouldn’t know the meaning of the word “genocide” if it bit you.

      • BetterDescription

        How about ‘religious apartheid’ – would that be more accurate presently?

        • Anonymous

          Not even remotely. Religious hatred emanates almost entirely from the Palestinians. Considering Israeli Arabs have far more human rights and civil liberties than any other Arab population the apartheid analogy applies to only one side and that isn’t Israel.

          • BadExample

            So the movement of Bedouins out of Negrev by the state is an effort to improve their human rights and civil liberties?

            “The Program for Regulating Bedouin Settlement in the Negev” is the biggest dispossession plan of Palestinians issued by Israel since 1948. It would forcibly relocate about half of the Bedouin population from their existing villages, which are older than the State of Israel itself, into existing small towns or townships, designated specifically for the Bedouins by the state.

            http://972mag.com/forcible-relocation-of-30000-bedouin-biggest-dispossession-since-1948/24107

            Maybe this is just a bad example.

          • Anonymous

            The Bedouin issue is actually fairly complex. They are a nomadic people who setup villages wherever they like. In most countries it to setup a village requiress official permission and compliance with various regulations which the Bedouin ignore. Israel has offered to build cities in which they can reside. However, they have declined. 

          • BadExample

            Okay, it’s complex.  But why are they being asked to leave?  Haven’t they been living in Negev for quite sometime?  It sounds like a ‘land grab’ to an outsider. 

          • Anonymous

            Perhaps, like Canada, the U.S., Europe etc. Israel is entitled to determine where and when and what regulations must be followed when people wish to setup a village or town or city. The more compassion shown to the Bedouins the better. After all, there have been many Bedouins who have volunteered to serve in the IDF and they have proven to be very competent and loyal.

          • BadExample

            The ‘native first’ peoples in Canada were put on ‘reserves’ and in the US they were put on ‘reservations’.  The native peoples then created towns and villages amongst these areas.  Many of them also served bravely in the military and during wars.

            Do you think this is  what Israel intends to do with the Bedouins in Negev?

  • Diana

    I am wondering where are the Palestinian Arabs who are calling for peace? I am afraid that if they exist as Amos Oz states, their lives are at risk.If M. Abbas make a peace overture how can he guarantee Hamas support?
    Yes, Israel should be seen as an underdog when you consider the nations in the Middle East that are calling for her destruction.

    • Susantnicholson

      And it’s precisely because Israel  desperately needs acceptance in an region surrounded by Arab nations that she needs to end the occupation and make peace with the Palestinians.  See a recent poll of Arab opinion, in which 86% of Arab respondents said they were prepared for peace if Israel is willing to return all 1967 territories including East Jerusalem. (Arab Public Opinion Poll conducted in June-July 2010 by University of Maryland and Zogby International). 

  • Hidan

    The women nina and the women after are clueless, Did it dawn on Nina and the other that Likud intentionally allow people who commited acts of terrorism free on purpose? Great P.R. for Israel, allows them to play the victim and can attack Palestinians and take more land in the guise of self defense?

    A few things,

    While Likud refused to work with Hamas to have peace if it returned to it’s 1967 boarders it had no problem working with Hamas to weaken Fatah. While many decry hamas as the end of be all satan few know that Israel helped fund and promote Hamas in the late 1970′s. What’s worth noting. As for the 1000 Terrorist even Israel admit this is not true nor the case. While some are terrorist many consisted of teens, and political activist/leaders who committed no such acts of terrorism. Worth also noting like many of the people caputred and held without charge in Israel Gilad was taken from a Tank.

    It’s also worth pointing out that every U.N. resolution has been veto by the U.S. coming in 2nd is U.N. resolution veto against South Africa by the U.S.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123275572295011847.html
    http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2006/01/27/hamas-son-of-israel/

    “Israel and Hamas may currently be locked in deadly combat, but,
    according to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials,
    beginning in the late 1970s, Tel Aviv gave direct and indirect financial
    aid to Hamas over a period of years. Israel ‘aided Hamas directly – the
    Israelis wanted to use it as a counterbalance to the PLO (Palestinian
    Liberation Organization),’ said Tony Cordesman, Middle East analyst for
    the Center for Strategic [and International] Studies. Israel’s support
    for Hamas ‘was a direct attempt to divide and dilute support for a
    strong, secular PLO by using a competing religious alternative,’ said a
    former senior CIA official.”

  • RockThePress

    http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/senior-u-s-officials-join-effort-to-free-5-israelis-held-in-brooklyn-1.73211

    http://www.HumanGenome.org
    FBI hereby has certified that they have pictures of five israeli military agents (mossad) were dancing/celebrating 9/11 with Only One WTC Tower was in flames.  Before the second hit, the event was supposed to be an ACCIDENT (a-c-c-i-d-e-n-t).

    This evidence is enough for me.  The events of 9/11 and Israel are directly absolutely positively 100% are related.

  • RockTheMedia

    http://www.HumanGenome.org/FBI

    FBI says …. celebration … minutes after the first hit … [see attached pictures]

  • Hidan

    Worth pointing out Oz’s comment of the arabs trying to destroy and annihilate Israel is a myth and Illan Pappe talks about this. Illan points out even before Israel was attacked it expelled 30k plus arabs in what can only be known as terrorism. Even when the arabs attacked Jordan being the strongest of the arab nations at the time made a deal with Israel not to set foot in Israel. Even giving up area to the approaching Israeli Army.  Not only was the Palestinians cleansed they land,homes,properties were taken and no recourse for such occurred. Worth pointing out at the time Jews controlled 7% of what was known to become Israel no negotiation occurred.

    Another myth Oz stated was there was a message made to the arabs in palestians to flee. This was debunked by Israeli Scholar Yehoshua Porath(http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/1986/jan/16/mrs-peterss-palestine/)   Oz also dismisses the trend in Israel soceity towards racism and the rise of such groups like the Shah, Nationalist party and Yisrael Beiteinu who Avigdor Lieberman is looking more and more likely to become the next Prime Minster.

    Many of the stuff he said on today’s are taken from Joan Peters Book
    From Time Immemorial

    Israeli Myths & Propaganda

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIWvcBzbqVc

    Frost over the World

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0-BerDi8x4

    • Plushkin

       This is just a gift that keeps on giving:

       1)”Worth pointing out Oz’s comment of the arabs trying to destroy   and annihilate Israel is a myth”
         There are volumes of indisputable quotes by arab leaders at the time that prove otherwise. But why bother lets simply recall more recent events and follow ups by the very same leaders ostensibly extending a hand in peace for Israel
      Arafat
      wrote in 1994  to groups opposing the Oslo Accords:

      “In order to
      obtain the goal of returning to Palestine, all of us sometimes have
      to grit our teeth. But it is forbidden that this harm the continued
      struggle against the Zionist enemy. Cooperation and understanding between
      the PLO and the rejectionist organizations is what will lead to the
      speedy retreat of Israel from the occupied territories in the first
      stage, until the establishment of a Palestinian state with its capital
      in Jerusalem. Only a state like that can then continue the struggle
      to remove the enemy from all Palestinian lands.”

       
      2) “at the time Jews controlled 7% of what was known to become Israel”
      typical arab propganda. Makes you think arabs owned the remaining 97%, right? – False. Arab legal ownership of the land at the time is accessed not to exceed 12% some accounts claim 14% of the land.

      3) Another myth Oz stated was there was a message made to the arabs in palestians to flee.
      Here is a few out of them hundreds of similar quotes:

      ON APRIL 23, 1948 Jamal Husseini, acting chairman of the Palestine Arab
      Higher Committee (AHC), told the UN Security Council: “The Arabs did not want to
      submit to a truce … They preferred to abandon their homes, belongings and everything
      they possessed.”

      ON SEPTEMBER 6, 1948, the Beirut Daily Telegraph quoted Emil Ghory,
      secretary of the AHC, as saying: “The fact that there are those refugees is the
      direct consequence of the action of the Arab states in opposing partition and the Jewish
      state. The Arab states agreed upon this policy unanimously…”

      ON JUNE 8, 1951, Habib Issa, secretary-general of the Arab League, wrote
      in the New York Lebanese daily al-Hoda that in 1948, Azzam Pasha, then League secretary,
      had “assured the Arab peoples that the occupation of Palestine and of Tel Aviv would
      be as simple as a military promenade … Brotherly advice was given to the Arabs of
      Palestine to leave their land, homes and property, and to stay temporarily in neighboring
      fraternal states.” 

      Besides pinning everything on so-called “debunking” of Joan Peters book is a classic deflection. The detractors NEVER reached beyond polemics in criticizing the book. They never even disputed the facts of massive arab exodus inspired by arab leaders.  

      4) ” Shah, Nationalist party and Yisrael Beiteinu who Avigdor Lieberman is
      looking more and more likely to become the next Prime Minster.”

        Well typical fear mongering and scare tactics so dominant in the extreme left.  Polls do not come even close to suggest that Mr. Leiberman is in this position or ever will be.

    • Anonymous

      Of course, you fail to mention that Illan Pappe is a notorious liar and fraud. 

      • Hidan

        Didn’t fail to mention such since it’s not true.

        • Anonymous

          You’re wrong as usual. According to Benny Morris (one of the most respected historians on this subject):

          “At best, Ilan Pappe must be one of the world’s sloppiest historians; at
          worst, one of the most dishonest. In truth, he probably merits a place
          somewhere between the two.”

          http://www.tnr.com/article/books/magazine/85344/ilan-pappe-sloppy-dishonest-historian?passthru=MWE4MzAwYzEwZTUxY2M3Y2VjZWEwODI4NTYyOTZlYmU

          • Hidan

            The same Benny Morris that backed tracked on his original work(what made him a respected historian). Same Benny Morris that now sees the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians as a good thing and the only thing wrong was that israel didn’t cleanse them all?

            “”Dr. Morris, you’re wearing many different hats,” Finkelstein says and
            Morris comes off as a propagandist more than a scholar, damaging himself
            at the end by stating that Israel did not attack “any hospital” in
            Gaza.”

            Of course you can’t blame Morris for backtracking after the heat he received from fellow Zionist. One can see why he’s so respected now.

            http://www.counterpunch.org/2004/01/16/an-interview-with-benny-morris/

            “Benny Morris, a Zionist historian turned fascist, has been trying so
            desperately to convince the English-speaking world that Jewish fascism,
            otherwise known as Zionism, is totally compatible with western liberal
            traditions.

            “A few years ago, Morris remarked that Israel should have “finished the job” in 1948 by massacring and expelling all
            native Palestinians.  Apart from the prevarication, the verbal juggling
            and linguistic theatrics, his argument was as brash as it was satanic.
            The liquidation of the Palestinian people’s national existence, which
            would also involve the effective liquidation of an important part of
            their physical existence, would have “solved the problem” and “allowed peace to prevail.””

            In the video and a commenter points out

            “http://mondoweiss.net/2010/05/benny-morris-suggests-israel-had-a-military-aim-in-destruction-of-31000-gaza-chickens.html”

            “Morris conveniently refers to all the countries in Africa and the Muslim world as “Banana Republics.”

            When Finklestein brings up the topic of Banana Republics again, Morris quickly blurts out “I meant the Muslim countries!”

            Morris is supposedly the most esteemed historian in Israel right? Are they all this racist?”

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTWxfdVHJWU&feature=player_embedded

            http://www.counterpunch.org/2004/01/16/an-interview-with-benny-morris/

            Funny how the firster claim the arabs are hateful and blood thiristy while acting in such that manner.

            Someone say projection??

          • Anonymous

            Morris did revise some conclusions based upon the release of thousands of previously unreleased documents . Like any competent or honest historian in the face of new information conclusions can change. Morris did not simply say ethnic cleansing of Palestinians was a good thing as you falsely assert. He said the vast majority of so-called Palestinian refugees voluntarily fled but the choice that remained was between the clear intent of genocide on the part of the Arabs or ethnic cleansing of some of those who remained.

          • Anonymous

            Counterpunch and Mondoweiss are such objective sources. What a disgusting joke. Terrorist-firsters like you always cite the most racist and bigoted sources. Stormfront is undoubtedly next.

          • DontGetIt

            Do you mean ‘subjective’, not ‘objective’?

            Why do you think these two sources are a ‘disgusting joke’?

            What are ‘terrorist-firsters’ and how is noting these cite(s) ‘the most racist and bigoted sources’?

            I looked up ‘stormfront’.  Are you comparing these sources to a neo-Nazi web site?

            You sound very defensive and reactionary to some of the information provided.

  • SilentWatch

    An old fart seems to be stuck in the early nineties. Wake up, Amos, Rabin is dead, and so are 1500 Jews killed by their Palestinian “partners” for “peace process”.
    And no, you don’t make peace with enemy BEFORE you win the war. The pathetic Israeli left could really learn something from Winston Churchill…

  • Tqr

    Why are you wasting space on the mindless slur/counter-slur of blinkered extremists on both sides of the divide?  No humanity here, just hatred.  How depressing when compared to what Oz is saying.  Seriously – what do you waste space on this drivel?

  • madwomanintheattic

    Although I am sorry that more of the conversation I heard did not deal with Oz’s writing, I thought his reasoned, realistic plea for peace with its concomitant difficulties was brilliant.  The question: What can American Jews do?  His answer: Help to convince our government to support the Peace Movement in Israel.

  • Potter

    To “Silentwatch”: the “old fart” actually has wisdom. Those like you and the hyperventilating woman caller are stuck in a groove nourished by propaganda about the “eternal” enemy, cowering in a corner while the death and trauma continues. I’ll bet you don’t even live there, but here….. Pray save Israel from these “supporters”.

    First make peace, a deal, then cross over and shakes hands.

  • Pingback: The American Conservative » Israeli Writer Amos Oz on Knowing One’s Home

  • Hidan

    To answers Pluskins 1 to 4

    “There are volumes of indisputable quotes by arab leaders at the time
    that prove otherwise. But why bother lets simply recall more recent
    events and follow ups by the very same leaders ostensibly extending a
    hand in peace for Israel”

    Notice how Pluskin provides no links to support his claims quotes yes but no links. There’s clearly a reason to this. Clearly the cites that pop up are from rabid Zionist and zeolites. Such website is a example (http://frontpagemag.com/) and if one googles Arafats qoute one will find. Love for a objective link or source to check the qoute.

    As for Pluskin Quotes ON SEPTEMBER 6, 1948, ON JUNE 8, 1951, ON APRIL 23, 1948. These quotes are taken from sites such as http://www.afsi.org/MEDIA/refugeequotes.htm which takes it from http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/quotes.html which takes it from http://www.imra.org.il/ by  Joseph
    E. Katz 

    Middle Eastern Political and Religious
    History Analyst 

    Brooklyn, New York who than qouted a man by the name of Moses.What Interesting about the so called objective group and the group Joseply Katz is part of. Just happens to be part of the
    Middle East Media Research Institute a group that supposedly translates arab writing for Western Listeners run by a Rabid and nasty Zionist. Rightweb gives some great examples of this ( http://www.rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/Middle_East_Media_Research_Institute)group and many believe it to be just another propaganda tool.  There’s more on wikipedia and if one were to google CNN and such group even more ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_Media_Research_Institute)

    There’s a reason why Pluskin and his ilk don’t link or cite there sources.

    • Plushkin

      The essence of the `argument’ is “Rabid and nasty Zionist ” translates arab writing for Western Listeners. Nice.  Is that what makes them ‘untrue’?  Get lost troll

      • Hidan

        “The essence of the `argument’ is “Rabid and nasty Zionist ” translates
        arab writing for Western Listeners. Nice.  Is that what makes them
        ‘untrue’?”

        Of course I provided http://www.rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/Middle_East_Media_Research_Institute which clears clear examples like

        “The Guardian’s Whitaker took MEMRI’s president to task for
        mistranslating a question that included an implied criticism of Israel.
        The question was, “How do you deal with the Jews who are besieging Al
        Aqsa and are scattered around it?” But MEMRI translated this as: “How do
        you feel about the Jews?” (Guardian, January 28, 2003).”

        If you read the link the essence is far more than “Rabid and nasty zionist”

        Need more examples?

  • Hidan

    Now for Jews making up 7% of the land of Israel before the state was created. Pluskins response was that arabs only made up 12 to 14% and the 7% was arab propaganda. He/it provided no sources to back either claim so let me.  I recommend others to check out the  Survey

    of Palestine 1944-1945 the british prepared two volumes titled survey of Palestine for the U.N. in 1946-1947 than take the CIA World Factbook. Based on these statistics, it is clear that the indigenous population planted

    13 times more than newly immigrated European colonizers. Also found in the Survey of Palestine.Dunums (1000 sq. meters) 1943

    A Survey of Palestine

    prepared by the British Mandate for the UN, p. 566.
    Category of land         Palestinian     Jew
    Urban                       76,662           70,111

    Citrus                       145,572          141,188
    Bananas                    2,300             1,430
    Rural built-on area       36,851            42,330
    Plantation                  1,079,788        95,514
    Cereal land (taxable)    5,503,183       814,102
    Cereal land (not taxable)900,294         51,049
    Uncultivable               16,925,805     298,523
    Total                        24,670,455     1,514,247
                                    94.22%        5.8%
    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/is.html

    ” Survey of Palestine,

    prepared by the British Mandate for the United Nations, p. 323-327

    * Value in Palestinian Pound

    ** Non-citrus fruits. Note Citrus production=248,274 dunums of

    which 120,897 dunums were Jewish owned (Supplement

    to Survey

    of Palestine, p. 37)

    *** One Dunum = 1,000 sq. meters.”

    http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Maps/Story573.html

    • Plushkin

      This entire drivel is a hogwash. Twisting my words won’t help you. When I presented the numbers the keyword was  “legally owned” which is less inclusive than area where people (ANY people) simply settled and started to cultivate the land. If one bothers to read his own sources on the same page (p. 566) there is a table of taxes payable on LEGALLY owned urban and rural land in Palestine  and the numbers are
         Arabs  351,000
         Jews   448,000
       Obviously arabs either didn’t own that much after all.

      • Plushkin

        * arabs didn’t *

    • Plushkin

      MYTH
      “Jews stole Arab land.”

      FACT

      Despite the growth in their population, the
      Arabs continued to assert they were being displaced. The truth
      is that from the beginning of World War I, part of Palestine’s
      land was owned by absentee landlords who lived in Cairo, Damascus
      and Beirut. About 80 percent of the Palestinian Arabs were
      debt-ridden peasants, semi-nomads and Bedouins.18

      Jews actually went out of their way to avoid purchasing
      land in areas where Arabs might be displaced. They sought land that was
      largely uncultivated, swampy, cheap and, most important, without tenants.
      In 1920, Labor Zionist leader David
      Ben-Gurion expressed his concern about the Arab fellahin, whom
      he viewed as “the most important asset of the native population.”
      Ben-Gurion said “under
      no circumstances must we touch land belonging to fellahs or worked
      by them.” He advocated helping liberate them from their oppressors.
      “Only if a fellah leaves his place of settlement,” Ben-Gurion
      added, “should we offer to buy his land, at an appropriate price.”19

      It was only after the Jews had bought all of the available
      uncultivated land that they began to purchase cultivated land. Many Arabs
      were willing to sell because of the migration to coastal towns and because
      they needed money to invest in the citrus industry.20

      When John Hope Simpson
      arrived in Palestine in May 1930, he observed: “They [Jews] paid
      high prices for the land, and in addition they paid to certain of the
      occupants of those lands a considerable amount of money which they were
      not legally bound to pay.”21

      In 1931, Lewis French conducted a survey of landlessness
      and eventually offered new plots to any Arabs who had been “dispossessed.”
      British officials received more than 3,000 applications, of which 80 percent
      were ruled invalid by the Government’s legal adviser because the applicants
      were not landless Arabs. This left only about 600 landless Arabs, 100
      of whom accepted the Government land offer.22

      In April 1936,
      a new outbreak of Arab attacks on Jews was instigated by a Syrian guerrilla
      named Fawzi al­Qawukji, the commander of the Arab Liberation Army. By
      November, when the British finally sent a new commission headed by Lord
      Peel to investigate, 89 Jews had been killed and more than 300 wounded.23

      The Peel Commission’s
      report found that Arab complaints about Jewish land acquisition were
      baseless. It pointed out that “much of the land now carrying orange
      groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it was purchased….there
      was at the time of the earlier sales little evidence that the owners possessed
      either the resources or training needed to develop the land.”24
      Moreover, the Commission found the shortage was “due less to the
      amount of land acquired by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population.”
      The report concluded that the presence of Jews in Palestine, along with
      the work of the British Administration, had resulted in higher wages,
      an improved standard of living and ample employment opportunities.25

      In his memoirs, Transjordan’s King Abdullah wrote:

      It is made quite clear to all, both by the
      map drawn up by the Simpson Commission and by another compiled
      by the Peel Commission, that the Arabs are as prodigal
      in selling their land as they are in useless wailing and
      weeping (emphasis in the original).26

      Even at the height of the Arab
      revolt in 1938, the British High Commissioner to Palestine believed
      the Arab landowners were complaining about sales to Jews to drive up prices
      for lands they wished to sell. Many Arab landowners had been so terrorized
      by Arab rebels they decided to leave Palestine and sell their property
      to the Jews.27

      The Jews were paying exorbitant prices to wealthy landowners
      for small tracts of arid land. “In 1944, Jews paid between $1,000
      and $1,100 per acre in Palestine, mostly for arid or semiarid land; in
      the same year, rich black soil in Iowa was selling for about $110 per
      acre.”28

      By 1947, Jewish holdings in Palestine amounted to about
      463,000 acres. Approximately 45,000 of these acres were acquired from
      the Mandatory Government; 30,000 were bought from various churches and
      387,500 were purchased from Arabs. Analyses of land purchases from 1880
      to 1948 show that 73 percent of Jewish plots were purchased from large
      landowners, not poor fellahin.29 Those
      who sold land included the mayors of Gaza, Jerusalem
      and Jaffa. As’ad
      el­Shuqeiri, a Muslim religious scholar and father of PLO
      chairman Ahmed Shuqeiri, took Jewish money for his land. Even King Abdullah
      leased land to the Jews. In fact, many leaders of the Arab nationalist
      movement, including members of the Muslim Supreme Council, sold land to
      Jews.30

       

      • Hidan

        Once again Pluskin(my own personal stalker) doesn’t link his source for the obvious reason of course. Such comes from http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf2.html

        Which also claims the bombing of the King David Hotel was not a act of terrorism. besides the pretzel style distortion to come up with such “fact” it’s quite funny.

  • Hidan

    Pluskin than goes on to claim the Palestinians all left there homes not expelled or cleansed yet the Die in the woll Zionist Benny Morris admits the Palestinians were cleansed. This was also addressed by
    Yehoshua Porath in mid 1980′s. As well as Alexander Cockburn, Edward Said Walter Reich in The Atlantic,and Bernard Gwertzman and many others. I use Joan Peters as the example  because many inadvertly qoute her. Like Jordan is Palstain, the Jews made the desert grow, there was no Palestinians living there.No ethic cleansing and many of the others.

    Find below

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_Time_Immemorial
    ” Yehoshua Porath
    described the book as a “sheer forgery,” stating that “[i]n Israel, at
    least, the book was almost universally dismissed as sheer rubbish except
    maybe as a propaganda weapon.””

    On Morris
    “‘Survival of the Fittest’, a document of unusual significance in the
    modern history of Zionism—and reproduced here for that reason. To his
    shocked interlocutor, Morris lays out two unpalatable truths: that the
    Zionist project could only be realized by deliberate ethnic cleansing;
    and that, once it was embarked upon, the only reasons for stopping short
    of the complete elimination of the Arab population from Palestine were
    purely temporary and tactical ones. It is letting the second of these
    cats out of the bag that has led to most uproar among conventional
    opponents of the Likud and Labour establishments. Arguments for the
    wholesale ejection of the Palestinians from the Promised Land have long
    been openly expressed on the right of the Israeli spectrum,”

    Porath

    ” Mrs. Peters has gone to great lengths to collect the statements made
    by Arabs in which they admit that the Palestinian Arab refugees left
    Palestine because they expected Arab military victory, after which they
    intended to return. Nevertheless, although she admits that in sporadic
    instances Arabs were expelled, she ignores evidence of Israeli
    intentions to expel them. I would like to draw her attention to one
    document which proves that the Haganah did in certain circumstances have
    such an intention.
    As historians of the 1948 war know well, the Haganah prepared in March 1948 a strategic plan (the Dalet
    or “fourth” plan) to deal with the imminent invasion of Palestine by
    the Arab countries. A major aim of the plan was to form a continuous
    territory joining the lands held by the Jewish settlements. The plan
    clearly states that if Arab villages violently opposed the Jewish
    attempt to gain control, their populations would be expelled. The text
    was first made public in Israel in 1972 as an appendix to the last
    volume of the semiofficial History of the Haganah.”

    “According to the Zionist myth, only modern Jewish colonization brought
    about the economic development of Palestine and improved the hard
    conditions there. These developments, it was said, attracted poor Arabs
    from the stagnant neighboring countries. Their numbers grew faster than
    the Jewish immigrants because the malicious British authorities always
    encouraged them to come and did much to help to absorb them, both
    economically and legally.

    “As all the research by historians and geographers of modern Palestine
    shows, the Arab population began to grow again in the middle of the
    nineteenth century. That growth resulted from a new factor: the
    demographic revolution. Until the 1850s there was no “natural” increase
    of the population, but this began to change when modern medical
    treatment was introduced and modern hospitals were established,”

    • Plushkin

      Since  you have proven months before that you haven’t even read most of the stuff you post references to with selections made for you by  extremist brothers in Jihad from pro-pali propaganda sites, serious discussion with you in the field of historical analysis is pointless, like actually this entire encounter. Unrelenting personal Jihad is not my piece of bread.

  • Hidan

    As “Shah, Nationalist party and Yisrael Beiteinu who Avigdor Lieberman is
    looking more and more likely to become the next Prime Minster.””
    Yisrael Beiteinu is now the third largest party in Israel with 15 seats, all three parties are part of the governing Likud party and such government would fall if these parties pulled out. And since there’s been over 20+ bills passed considered racism and discriminatory.  Including banning Israeli arab citizens from living in Jewish communities. Pretty much an updated version of Jim Crow.

    Some info on the rise of the far right.

    Zeev Sternhell is an Israeli
    historian and a recognized expert on Fascism. He is also an occasional
    contributor to the Israeli newspaper Haaretz. On 14 January 2011 he
    published a piece originally titled “The Right To Resist.”
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article27285.htm
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/147346

    Israeli anti-Arab racism ‘rises’
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7136068.stm
    Marriage to an Arab is national treason

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3381978,00.html
    Globes” poll: Liberman strengthening

    The Attorney General’s decision to indict Minister of Foreign Affairs Avigdor Liberman seems to have boosted his popularity.http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/docview.asp?did=1000642064&fid=1724Is Lieberman the New Israeli Mainstream?http://mitchellplitnick.com/2011/01/08/is-lieberman-the-new-israeli-mainstream/
    Knesset not only the intimidation of human
    rights organizations, but also “legislation that would prevent
    non-Jewish Israeli citizens from living in Jewish communities.” “Poll: Israeli Youth Identifies with the Right
    Poll finds Israeli teens identify with the right, want Lieberman to be
    prime minister and don’t want Israel to concede territories.http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/147346
    http://www.knesset.gov.il/faction/eng/FactionCurrent_eng.asp
    http://www.opendemocracy.net/article/israel-s-rightward-shift-a-history-of-the-present

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123440485250475653.html

    Rightwing Jew can call leftwing Jew a Nazi, but if leftwinger turns the tables, he’s an anti-Semite

    http://mondoweiss.net/2011/08/rightwing-jew-can-call-leftwing-jew-a-nazi-but-if-leftwinger-turns-the-tables-hes-an-anti-semite.html

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123440485250475653.html

    • MoreRecentFan

      Hidan –

      Thank you for all of your links, research and hard work.  I always learn something from you.  Please keep up your heroic efforts. 

      Too bad, On Point’s producers don’t follow up as well.  Alas, I keep forgetting – NPR isn’t in the news business, they are in the entertainment business. 

      And thanks for keeping the trolls at bay, under their bridges or rocks, be as it may.

      • Plushkin

        It is not nice Michael to just register another account for sole purpose of self cheering 

      • Hidan

        No problem, the trolls esp the Zionist ones like Arnold aka plushkin get especially rabid when someone challenges their narrative.  The reason for this is simple. By exposing such racism (quite openly now a days) it makes far more harder to claim the victim. For example if a Palestinian throws a stone at a israeli jew he’s blood thiristy but if a Israeli Jew throws a stone at a Palestinian he’s frustrated. If a Palestinian fires at a village or israeli jew’s car he’s a blood thiristy terrorist. If a Israeli jew fires at a Palestinian or Palestinian car he’s defending himself. 

        Much like White Supremacist views on blacks many Zionist like Pluskin express the same towards arabs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_supremacy) you can find the same type of agurments Whilte Supremacist made against blacks that many Zionist make today against arabs.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supremacism
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_supremacy

        “White supremacy is the belief, and promotion of the belief, that white people are superior to people of other racial backgrounds. The term is sometimes used specifically to describe a political ideology that advocates the social and political dominance by whites.[1] White supremacy, as with racial supremacism in general, is rooted in ethnocentrism and a desire for hegemony. [2]
        and has frequently resulted in violence against non-whites. Different
        forms of white supremacy have different conceptions of who is considered
        white, and not all white supremacist organizations agree on who is
        their greatest enemy.[3]”
        Now replace

        Jewish supremacy is the belief, and promotion of the belief, that jewish people in israel are superior to people of other arab and  racial backgrounds . The term is sometimes used specifically to describe a political ideology that advocates the social and political dominance by Jew in Israel. Jewish supremacy, as with racial supremacism in general, is rooted in ethnocentrism and a desire for hegemony.
        and has frequently resulted in violence against non-jews. Different
        forms of jewish supremacy have different conceptions of who is considered jewish , and not all jewish supremacist organizations agree on who is
        their greatest enemy.

        of course some examples

        Rabbis’ wives urge Israeli women: Stay away from Arab men

        A new letter signed by 30 women suggests that girls who date non-Jews will be cut off from their ‘holy race’.

        http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/rabbis-wives-urge-israeli-women-stay-away-from-arab-men-1.333841

        I like to point out after many rabbis forbid Isralei jews from renting to israeli arabs the Likud control knesset passed a law allowing for Israeli jews to legally be allowed to do so.

        Dozens of top Israeli rabbis sign ruling to forbid rental of homes to Arabs
        http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/dozens-of-top-israeli-rabbis-sign-ruling-to-forbid-rental-of-homes-to-arabs-1.329312

        Leading Religous Zionist say’s it’s okay to kill non-jews children and babies.

        West Bank rabbi: Jews can kill Gentiles who threaten Israel

        Book by Rabbi Yitzhak Shapiro of Yitzhar permits even the murder of babies and children who pose threat.

        http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/news/west-bank-rabbi-jews-can-kill-gentiles-who-threaten-israel-1.4496

        Gentile sperm leads to barbaric offspring
        http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4006385,00.html

        Rabbi Dov Lior,
        a senior authority on Jewish law in the Religious Zionism movement,
        asserted recently that a Jewish woman should never get pregnant using
        sperm donated by a non-Jewish man – even if it is the last option
        available.
         
        According to Lior, a baby born through such an insemination will have
        the “negative genetic traits that characterize non-Jews.” Instead, he
        advised sterile couples to adopt.
         

      • Hidan

        Worth pointing out the lengths Israel goes to prevent Jewish women from dating arab men. One would think that if such dated and married it be far easier to bridge the gap between them.

        Israel jails Arab for ‘deceit rape’

        From the Israeli Nationalist news site

        “Thousands of Jewish Israeli women marry Arabs, unwittingly entering a
        trap of torture. Mayaan Jaffe goes behind the scenes to see how some of
        them are rescued.”

        http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/72865

        What they mean by rescue is they actually kidnap the Iraeli jewish women and holds her in confinement until she cracks or is convinced not to marry or be with a arab male. Some of the towns even have posses that go around making sure jewish women aren’t dating or talking to arab men.

        Man sentenced to 18 months in prison after telling an Israeli woman he was Jewish.http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/07/201072191017847251.html

        Marriage to an Arab is national treason’

        Recent poll
        reveals steep rise in racist views against Arabs in Israel; many
        participants feel hatred, fear when overhearing Arabic, 75 percent don’t
        approve of shared apartment buildings

        http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3381978,00.html
        Israeli drive to
        prevent Jewish girls dating Arabs

        http://www.jkcook.net/Articles3/0426.htm

    • Plushkin

      Yep again the infamous fear mongering.

      Funny that the very fact —

      that half of so-called “palestinians” is ruled by democratically elected,  internationally recognized terror organization Hamas,

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas

      and the rest by a Dr. M. Abbas who not only financed Munich massacre of Israeli athletes but also is proud holder of a PhD in something that is essentially Holocaust denial from a Soviet 3rd grade university under tutelage of life long Israel-hater, fromer minister of International Affairs in Russia , Y. Primakov

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmud_Abbas

      – is never a matter of concern for anyone blindly believing in arab propaganda.
       
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1oq7oGO_N8

      meanwhile a centuries old indoctrination of arab children continues unabated, while PA is granted a full membership in UNESCO

        http://www.impact-se.org/research/pa/index.html
        

      • Hidan

        Of course Abbas never funded the Munich massacres nor can Pluskin back it up. “http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_massacre” The that actually committed it was Black September tons of debate as if they were or were not part of the PLO. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_%28group%29)
        I  see nothing about abbass funding them

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Arafat

        “Yep again the infamous fear mongering.”

        Dam jew hating sites like Haartz and ynet,israeli nationalist news.oh wait………

        keep whining troll.

        • Plushkin

           Abu Daoud, who planned the 1972 Munich Massacre, the hostage-taking of members of the Israeli team at the Munich Olympic Games
          which ended with the murder of eleven Israeli athletes and coaches and a
          West German policeman, wrote that funds for the operation were provided
          by Abbas, though without knowing what the money would be used for.[16]

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmud_Abbas

          of cause had he known better he would commit even more funds.

          • Hidan

            So a German policeman said Abbas invertly funded the munich massacre. While at the same time Israel was in/directly funding Hamas.  As the unstable plushkin agreed with Nadia Matar who called for the killing of abbas. Going by her and the clearly trouble pluskin what does that say about Israel supporting and helping helps from the late 1970′s up to 1994.

      • Hidan

        Oh yea, though the statement of abbass saying 6 million jews didn’t die is troubling. His  doctrine on how Zionist and Nazi’s worked together in the 1930′s  is actually true. Not only did they work together the Zionist at the time help stoped a boycott against the nazi’s that threaten to bring them down.

        Edwin Black wrote a book called the Transfer agreement talking about such. When the last time anyone held that Zionist worked with the Nazi’s in the 1930′? Lehi is another example where one recieves the Lehi Medal for the terrorism they committed.

        http://www.transferagreement.com/

        “The Transfer Agreement: The Dramatic Story of the Pact Between the Third Reich and Jewish Palestine is a non-fiction book written by author Edwin Black, documenting the agreement between Zionist Jews and Adolf Hitler to help create a Jewish state in Palestine, in return for an end of a global boycott of Nazi Germany that had threatened to bring it down in its first days of power.”

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Transfer_Agreement

        HISTORICAL JOURNALISM AT ITS BEST. Black has authored an exhaustive, compelling, well-written and edited work. It is historical journalism at its best.
        Alexander Zvielli Jerusalem Post

        OVERWHELMING AND COHESIVE. Edwin
        Black’s research is striking in its dimension and scope. The vast
        uncovering of source material and its extensive use are almost
        overwhelming. He succeeds in crystallizing the various aspects of an
        almost worldwide problem into fluid and cohesive analysis.
        Yoav Gelber, Yad Vashem Israel Holocaust Memorial

        Happy reading troll..

        Cheers.

        • Hidan

          “Heard”

  • Plushkin

    These statements appeared in an article by Mahmoud al-Habbash in the official PA newspaper, Al-Hayat al-Jadida:

    1. Journalist writing about the events of 1948

    Mahmud Al-Habbash, a regular writer in the official PA paper, Al-Hayat
    Al-Jadida, indicates in his column “The Pulse of Life” that the Arabs
    left Israel in 1948 only after political Arab leaders persuaded them to
    do so by promising the Arabs a speedy return to their homes in
    Palestine:

    “…The leaders and the elites promised us at the beginning of the
    ‘Catastrophe’ (the establishment of Israel and the creation of refugee
    problem) in 1948, that the duration of the exile will not be long, and
    that it will not last more than a few days or months, and afterwards the
    refugees will return to their homes, which most of them did not leave
    only until they put their trust in those “Arkuvian” promises made by the
    leaders and the political elites. Afterwards, days passed, months,
    years and decades, and the promises were lost with the strain of the
    succession of events…” (Term “Arkuvian,” is named after Arkuv – a figure
    from Arab tradition – who was known for breaking his promises and for
    his lies.”).”

    [Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, December 13, 2006]

    2. Woman who fled Israel in 1948

    “We heard sounds of explosions and of gunfire at the beginning of the
    summer in the year of the ‘Catastrophe; [The establishment of Israel and
    the expulsion from the land in 1948]. They told us: ‘The Jews attacked
    our region and it is better to evacuate the village and return, after
    the battle is over.’ And indeed there were among us [who fled Israel]
    those who left a fire burning under the pot, those who left their flock
    [of sheep] and those who left their money and gold behind, based on the
    assumption that we would return after a few hours.”

    [Asmaa Jabir Balasimah Um Hasan, Woman who fled Israel, Al-Ayyam, May 16, 2006]

    ==

    3. Son and grandson of those who fled in 1948

    An Arab viewer called Palestinian Authority TV and quoted his father and
    grandfather, complaining that in 1948 the Arab District Officer ordered
    all Arabs to leave Palestine or be labeled traitors. In response, Arab
    MK Ibrahim Sarsur, then Head of the Islamic Movement in Israel, cursed
    the leaders who ordered Arabs to leave, thus, acknowledging Israel’s
    assertion.

    Statement of son and grandson of man who fled:

    “Mr. Ibrahim [Sarsur]. I address you as a Muslim. My father and
    grandfather told me that during the ‘Catastrophe’ [establishment of
    Israel in 1948 and the expulsion from the land], our district officer
    issued an order that whoever stays in Palestine and in Majdel [near
    Ashkelon – Southern Israel] is a traitor, he is a traitor.”

    Response from Ibrahim Sarsur, Head of the Islamic Movement in Israel:

    “”The one who gave the order forbidding them to stay there bears guilt
    for this, in this life and the Afterlife throughout history until
    Resurrection Day.”

    [PA TV April 30, 1999]

    ==

    4. Article by senior PA journalist

    Fuad Abu Higla, then a regular columnist in the official PA daily Al
    Hayat Al Jadida, wrote an article before an Arab Summit, which
    criticized the Arab leaders for a series of failures. One of the
    failures he cited, in the name of a prisoner, was that an earlier
    generation of Arab leaders “forced them to leave Israel in 1948”, again
    placing the blame for the flight on the Arab leaders.

    “I have received a letter from a prisoner in Acre prison, to the Arab summit:

    “To the [Arab and Muslim] Kings and Presidents, Poverty is killing us,
    the symptoms are exhausting us and the souls are leaving our body, yet
    you are still searching for the way to provide aid, like one who is
    looking for a needle in a haystack or like the armies of your
    predecessors in the year of 1948, who forced us to leave [Israel], on
    the pretext of clearing the battlefields of civilians… So what will
    your summit do now?”

    [Al-Hayat Al-Jadidah, March 19, 2001]

    Go swallow your venom and hatred, Hidan. The PA itself admits that
    the

    • Hidan

      Again Like Pluskin he fails to provide a link or sources to check such. I guess 5 now equals 100 hundreds of thousands

      Typical

      • Hidan

        A quick google serch brings up palwatch,David Patterson,.memri(same biased and mistranslating group)Again ask pluskin why he’s not linking his source?

      • Plushkin

        Typical is this Hidan-THE-troll believe that if it is not on the net it doesn’t exist. And if the information doesn’t come from organization biased against Israel it is a fabrication then. Good luck with that,  dhimmititude must be a bliss for charters like you unless of cause you already belong to the higher cast.

        • Hidan

          blah blah troll insult blah blah troll whine blah blah blah troll insult.

          Typical Zionist.

  • Hidan

    So Pluskin than goes on to stake his claim

    “meanwhile a centuries old indoctrination of arab children continues unabated, while PA is granted a full membership in UNESCO”

    http://www.impact-se.org/research/pa/index.html

    Of course if one follows the link you’ll find that it’s written by nstitute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education (Hold laughs please) okay you think credible? think not.  Independent sources have come to a entirely different conclusion.

    “The reports of the Institute for Monitoring the Impact of Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education pertain to the Arab-Israeli conflict. The organization’s website provides links to critiques of the organization as well as the organization’s response.[3] One such criticism includes that of Prof. Nathan Brown, who—in his Democracy, History, and the Contest over the Palestinian Curriculum article—described CMIP’s reports on Palestinian textbooks as “tendentious and misleading.” CMIP argues that Brown has not illustrated or substantiated this claim”

    So what is he talking about one may ask? Turns out. of course this is from a Israeli journalist and therefor by Pluskin view must be self hating.

    “According to one Israeli journalist, Akiva Eldar,
    the Center does sloppy work. It “routinely feeds the media with
    excerpts from ‘Palestinian’ textbooks that call for Israel’s
    annihilation [without] bothering to point out that the texts quoted in
    fact come from Egypt and Jordan.””

    Lets not forget

    http://consortiumnews.com/2011/08/13/does-israel-teach-anti-arab-bigotry/

    By Lawrence Davidson

    Over the last ten years, there have been periodic outbursts of rage over
    the alleged anti-Semitic nature of Palestinian textbooks. Most of these
    episodes have been instigated by an Israeli-based organization called
    the Center for Monitoring the Impact of Peace (aka, the Institute for
    Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education).

    However, the Center’s conclusions have been corroborated only by
    other Israeli institutions such as Palestinian Media Watch. And, not
    surprisingly, almost all independent investigations examining the same issue have come up with very different conclusions.

    “Nathan Brown, a professor of political science at George Washington
    University who did his own study on the subject in 2000, said
    Palestinian textbooks now in use, which replaced older ones published in
    Egypt and Jordan, do not teach anti-Semitism, but “they tell history
    from a Palestinian point of view.”

    It might very well be that it is this fact that the Zionists cannot
    abide and purposefully mistake a Palestinian viewpoint for
    anti-Semitism.

    Here is another not very surprising fact: When it comes to choosing
    which set of reports to support, American politicians will almost always
    go with the Zionist versions. Take then-Sen. Hillary Clinton who, in
    2007, denounced Palestinian textbooks, saying they “don’t give
    Palestinian children an education, they give them an indoctrination.””

    “These non-Zionist sources include The Nation magazine, which
    published a report on Palestinian textbooks in 2001; the George Eckert
    Institute for International Textbook Research, reporting in 2002; the
    Israel/Palestine Center for Research and Information, reporting in 2004;
    and the U.S. State Department Report of 2009. They all found that
    Palestinian textbooks did not preach anti-Semitism.

    “According to one Israeli journalist, Akiva Eldar,
    the Center does sloppy work. It “routinely feeds the media with
    excerpts from ‘Palestinian’ textbooks that call for Israel’s
    annihilation [without] bothering to point out that the texts quoted in
    fact come from Egypt and Jordan.”

    • Plushkin

      You must be insane to believe anything said on initfada-palestine.com where  Lawrence Davidson is a regular contributor and rabid anti-semite 
       http://misheshoel.tripod.com/rebuttalanswer.htm

      Than our jihadi apparently went to http://www.prc.org.uk/ to strengthen his/her case. How unusual for a site advocating “return” of non existent “refuges” to Israel to be on the side of the debate? Objective source indeed.

      and so on so forth. it is exhausting to fight professional albeit mostly illiterate trolls but is noble task nonetheless.

      yours truly,
        Plushkin

       

      • Plushkin

        *on the other side* 

      • Hidan

        of course mishehoel site’s another winner. The author of the link Gamaliel Isaac also happens to be against the two state solution rather pushing for a (get this) four state. ( http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2007/11/27/the-four-state-solution/ ) instead pushing for bantustans in the west bank. And of course is a Great Israel revionist.

        “Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has made clear
        that the upcoming Annapolis summit will be a step on the road to a
        two-state solution to the conflict in the Middle East.  The absurdity of
        this becomes clear when one considers that there are already four de facto
        Palestinian States.  They are the State of Jordan, the Palestinian
        Authority-controlled state of Palestine in Judea and Samaria, the
        Hamas-ruled Palestinian state of Gaza, and Israel.”

        Now remember folks Jordan in no way was part of the two state solution.

        “http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2009/aug/17/israel-middleeast”

        “1921 The British divided their mandate in
        two. East of the river Jordan became the emirate of Transjordan and was
        ruled by Faysal’s brother Abdullah. West of the Jordan became the
        Palestine mandate and remained under British control.”

        Lawrence Davis response to such claims by our Right winger Mr. Isaac. Pluskin no doubt falls under such much like Isaac. While so far any sourced Pluskin has link has been nearly always onesided and nothing close to being objective. No bbc, Guardain or any news source people could take as objective.

        http://www.logosjournal.com/issue_4.2/davidson.htm
        The Zionist Worldview
        and the Pitfalls of Confirmation Bias: A Rebuttal to Gamaliel Isaac

        A

        mong the fallacies that
        get in the way of clear thinking there is one that is
        known as “confirmation bias.” Here is a common
        definition for this type of one dimensional thinking,
        “confirmation bias refers to a form of selective
        thinking that focuses on evidence that supports what the
        believers already believe while ignoring evidence that
        refutes their beliefs. Confirmation bias plays a
        stronger role when people base their beliefs upon faith,
        tradition and prejudice.” Actually, this is a quite
        common practice that seems to have all but taken over
        the thinking of Zionists, neo-conservatives, and the
        holy rollers of the religious right. Its most dangerous
        recent manifestation is the creation of the Pentagon’s
        Office of Special Plans (OSP) by the Bush
        administration. The job of the OSP is to search high
        and low for selective evidence that might support the
        hypotheses of those now in charge of our country. The OSP has worked hard to confirm our leaders a priori
        beliefs and, as a result, has given us such
        deadly bloopers as Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction
        and alleged partnership with Al Qaeda. Gamaliel Isaac
        is not in the same league as the OSP, but he certainly
        uses the same flawed thinking process.

        Dr. Isaac is trying to
        demonstrate that charges of misconduct on the part of
        the Israelis in the Occupied Territories are false and
        malicious. Just like the neo-conservatives in the Bush
        administration, he so firmly hold this belief that he
        just knows it has to be true. Thus, in his hunt for
        supporting proof, he inevitably sees what he wants to
        see. As a result he ends up with mostly selective,
        particularistic evidence, which then allows him to
        conclude that Israeli policies have not produced an
        occupation that has harmed the Palestinian people.”

  • Plushkin

     <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vtt8V25lGmc&feature=related&quot;palestinian children speak out
    Can anyone translate it for Hidan, since the origin is  SO-biased-against- these-angels MEMRI folks?

    • Hidan

      Again as earlier pointed out and the victimized Pluskin clearly helps pointing such out is Memri if it’s not mistranslating Arabic it’s taking extreme outliers while ignoring moderates and liberals in the same media.  

      • Plushkin

        ” if it’s not mistranslating Arabic it’s taking extreme .. while ignoring moderates and liberals in the same media”

        That must be true if you say so. The problem is that MEMRI is set out to monitor arab extremism, deeply embedded anti-semtism and downright racism toward non-muslim. Finding moderates (albeit I believe there must be some somewhere) is not MEMRI’s job. Once hate-filled half-wits are gone so will be MEMRI.
        Now, why don’t you make us acquainted with moderates and liberals? Awaiting for enlightenment …    
        Your very own rabidly nasty Zionist (with all my ilk),
            Plushkin.

        • Plushkin

          ostensibly ignored moderates by MEMRI, just to show how full of it Hidan realy is. Or is she is a nasty rabid zionist(Hidan TM) too?

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLOicfZ_bAI&feature=related

          • Hidan

            But Memri is a objective(hold laugh) organization.

            From their cite.


            The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) explores the
            Middle East through the region’s media. MEMRI bridges the language gap
            which exists between the West and the Middle East, providing timely
            translations of Arabic, Persian, Urdu-Pashtu, and Turkish media, as well
            as original analysis of political, ideological, intellectual, social,
            cultural, and religious trends in the Middle East.

            Founded in February 1998 to inform the debate over U.S. policy
            in the Middle East, MEMRI is an independent, nonpartisan, nonprofit,
            501(c)3 organization. MEMRI’s headquarters is located in Washington, DC
            with branch offices in London, Rome, Jerusalem, Baghdad, Shanghai and
            Tokyo. MEMRI research is translated to English, French, Spanish, German,
            Italian, Polish, Russian, Chinese, Japanese, and Hebrew.”http://www.memri.org/

          • Plushkin

            anything on what Wafa is actually saying? Any factual mistranslations of this particular piece?  Another pathetic attempt to discredit a source based exclusively on the fact that it is run by Jews but not on the substance of the evidence.
            So typical for these ostensibly tolerant lefty loonies. Back at you.

        • Hidan

          Oh?But  MEMRI claims their job is to bridge the gap language gap
          which exists between the West and the Middle East.

          Clearly what you posted as their goal  is something else and just goes to prove my point that such group is biased and worthless.

  • Plushkin

     concerning Brian Whitaker who  <a href="http://cifwatch.com/2011/06/02/the-guardians-brian-whitaker-wants-you-to-be-afraid-of-the-israel-lobby-very-afraid/"took MEMRI's presidet to task

    You have no way winning this type of `argument’ our little angry jihadi,

    no one can!

  • Plushkin

    Conclusion: There is no known method of misinformation jihadi Hidan and his/her ilk wouldn’t use to “prove”, support and reinforce their delusional view of pretty much everything in this world. But it is also known that for every nut there is a bolt to fit.
    The reality is not so forgiving for them though. The very reason they emerge is the reality that they reject – be that Israel very existence and prosperity or sound rejection of Islamization by people with at least half a brain and genuine disgust at the tired pro-”palestinian” vicious propaganda.

    Enjoy this Halloween-ish take on women rights in islamic societies
     http://www.youtube.com/patcondell#p/a/u/0/HFH8DEKFpwk

    <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chai_%28symbol%29"עַם יִשְרָאֵל חַי

    • Hidan

      lol troll,

      Mind giving me a map of Israel’s eastern boarders?

      • Plushkin

        Pathetic attempt to somehow imply that I’m for Israel from “river to the sea”. You’re so delusional. Mind to show me any borders of Israel on your map 

        • Hidan

          So your not going to provide one? Of course folks we know the reason why.

          I ask for a map of Israel eastern boarder? instead you deflected. Mines 1967 since it illegal to move citizens onto occupied land per the 4th Geneva Convention.

          • Plushkin

            Oh yea? And who told you that you have a say in it to begin with?
             It is a disputed land won in the defensive war by Israel from Jordan. It is up to the parties involved to settle the dispute. So you can go and fly a kite for all we care. 

  • Hidan

    Folks check out his link, it just shows how batty this guy is and many other zionist. So Brian Whitaker is a evil anti-Semitic cause he said that the israeli lobby and neo-cons pushed for war in iraq. The authors quote this 

    “There were certainly some
    who made a case for “liberal interventionism” in Iraq and Afghanistan,
    but it was muddied by numerous other factors and for that reason never
    became very convincing. With Iraq, there was a long build-up as American neoconservatives and the Israel lobby beat their war drums…”
    Of course to people of Pluskin ilk this is deems Whitaker as a evil anti-Semite. They go on to conflate AIPAC as representing all Jews so there a attack on Aipac is therefore a attack on all jews.
    Just another example how crazy these people are. of course for a peace loving person such as plushkin he’s pretty nasty and hatefill. Notice he keeps calling me a jihadi. A clear sign of someone missing a few bolts. Since the troll can’t win by intimidation, clear distortion like the site he linked he goes to trying to ban or block others. Just check out the unstable trolls name when you click on it. Pluskin of course is losing the narrative so he becomes nastier this is typical of his ilk. But folk give the troll credit for finally linking his clearly biased and laughable sources it did though take awhile to get the troll to do so. And even still it was quite easy to point out why such sources are worthless.

    keep crying troll. 

    • Plushkin

      hidan’s  discourse just from this page:
         *   …[plushkin] he’s pretty nasty and hatefill
         *   the troll can’t win b
         *   blah blah troll insult blah blah troll whine blah blah blah troll insult.Typical Zionist.
         *   keep whining troll.(hidan’s TM actually)
         *  a group that supposedly translates arab writing for Western Listeners run by a Rabid and nasty Zionist
         *  so he becomes nastier this is typical of his ilk

      yep that is clearly the WINNING narrative.I surrender.

      “Keep whining troll” (hidan TM).

      • Hidan

        of course ignoring everything else posted.

  • MoreRecentFan

    “I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.”
- Elie Wiesel

  • Pingback: Insights for Parents of Disabled Kids from Nobel Laureate Kenzaburo Oe | Asperger Ally

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