90.9 WBUR - Boston's NPR news station
Top Stories:
PLEDGE NOW
U.S. Troops To Leave Iraq: What Happens Now?

The Obama administration will withdraw troops from Iraq as scheduled. We’ll take a look at what happens now.

An Iraqi police officer uses a  detector at a checkpoint in central Baghdad, Iraq, Sunday, Oct. 23, 2011. A U.S. Department of State program to train Iraqi police lacks focus, could become a "bottomless pit" of American money, and is not even appreciated by the Iraqi government, a U.S. government watchdog warned in a report released Monday. (AP)

An Iraqi police officer uses a detector at a checkpoint in central Baghdad, Iraq, Sunday, Oct. 23, 2011. A U.S. Department of State program to train Iraqi police lacks focus, could become a "bottomless pit" of American money, and is not even appreciated by the Iraqi government, a U.S. government watchdog warned in a report released Monday. (AP)

George W. Bush cut the deal, but Barack Obama confirmed it on Friday. After nearly nine years of war, US troops will be out of Iraq by the end of this year. No extension. No big stay-behind vestigial force in the country to keep the peace or keep Iran at bay. A million US service men and women have served in Iraq. A hundred and fifty will stay to guard the embassy.

It’s not what the Pentagon wanted. It is what Barack Obama promised. It is what Iraqi politics demanded. And it’s coming very soon.

This hour On Point: US troops head for the exits in Iraq.

-Tom Ashbrook

Guests

Christopher Hill, former U.S. ambassador to Iraq, and dean of the Korbel School of International Studies, University of Denver.

Ellen Laipson, president, Henry L. Stimson Center

Julian Barnes, Pentagon correspondent for the Wall Street Journal.

Tim Arango, Baghdad Bureau Chief for the New York Times.

From Tom’s Reading List

The New York Times “Beyond the final withdrawal of troops that President Obama announced Friday, America’s fiscal troubles are dictating a drastic scaling back of plans for diplomatic, economic and cultural programs once deemed vital to steadying Iraq, building a long-term alliance and prying the country from Iran’s tightening embrace.”

Foreign Policy “The Obama administration is claiming it always intended to withdraw all U.S. troops from Iraq by the end of this year, in line with the president’s announcement today, but in fact several parts of the administration appeared to try hard to negotiate a deal for thousands of troops to remain — and failed.”

Al Jazeera “In a decision promptly denounced by Republicans, President Barack Obama announced on Friday that all US troops will be withdrawn from Iraq by the Christmas holidays in late December.”

Please follow our community rules when engaging in comment discussion on this site.
  • Roy Mac

    The Pentagon correspondent from the WSJ??  Sitting in for the Pentagon correspondent from the National Enquirer?  That quote in Foreign Policy does not make sense:  are they ignorant of the fact that the “deal” was negotiated by the Cheney (supported by Bush) administration?

    • Gregg

      That’s true, the SOFA was negotiated by Bush and Obama did not accelerate it.

  • nj

    Reading list addendum: 

    http://www.salon.com/2011/10/21/about_that_iraq_withdrawal/singleton/Key points: Withdrawal was pre-negotiated under Shrub/Darth; OilyBomber tried to extend deadline for months; thousands of U.S. personnel will remain.(Site functionality note: “Foreign Policy” Reading List link isn’t operating for me.)

    • Hidan

      Even funnier how NPR tried to spin it now as to before.
      Gates: Troops Could Stay Past End Date In Iraq

      http://www.npr.org/2011/04/07/135202195/gates-troops-could-stay-past-end-date-in-iraq

      The Obama administration would keep U.S. troops in Iraq beyond Dec. 31
      if the Iraqi government wanted them, but the Iraqis need to decide
      “pretty quickly” in order for the Pentagon to accommodate an extension
      of the final withdrawal date, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said
      Thursday.

      The above wasn’t the first time the WH tried to extend it.

      “The main problem is selling an extension to a skeptical Iraqi public.
      There are persistent rumors that the U.S. has ulterior motives in Iraq
      and wants to stay to keep a better foothold in the Middle East instead
      of as a backstop to Iraq’s national defenses. U.S. officials reject that outright, saying they have no desire or plan for a permanent military footprint in the country.”

      “Maliki told Gates that he expects all U.S. troops to be out of Iraq
      by the end of the year as required under a 2008 security agreement
      between Baghdad and Washington, said Iraqi government spokesman Ali
      al-Dabbagh.
      “The prime minister informed
      Gates that the Iraqi government does not want the presence of the
      American forces in their current position,” al-Dabbagh told the AP after
      Maliki’s meeting with Gates. “We think that the presence of these
      forces is not suitable for Iraq, and these forces have to leave by the
      end of 2011.””

  • Hidan

    A few things worth pointing out,

    1. Troops are leaving at the end of the year not cause the Obama WH wanted such but because the Iraqi’s refused to renew the agreement for our troops to stay. This of course still happen even with both the WH,SOS,SOD, and many others trying to get the Iraqi’s to agree.

    2. Further to point the disingenuous nature of the WH announcement. The State department in Iraq will now be one of the largest in the world Hiring over 16k Merc aka Private Contractors to do the job of the military. It’s worth pointing that # would be even hirer were it not the iraqi’s insisting that these Mercenaries not have immunity to Iraqi law.

    3. For a clearly example of the WH disingenuous is that in 2011 the State Department in Iraq had 3k staff, now when our troops leave it will be around 16k, 80% consisting of private contractor. Xe and the likes.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/state-department-readies-iraq-operation-its-biggest-since-marshall-plan/2011/10/05/gIQAzRruTL_story.html

    4. Obama is increasing the State Department budget by Billions in 2011 it was a increase of 5 billion now 2012 there requesting a budget of 47 Billion
    http://www.state.gov/s/dmr/remarks/2011/156570.htm

    5.The best or funniest thing about this is the Obama WH is talking about this as a Decrease or cut. By using the twisted logic that because the WH may not get the full increase it’s therefore a decrease or cut.

    http://articles.cnn.com/2011-02-14/politics/budget.defense.state_1_budget-proposals-cuts-overseas-contingency-operations?_s=PM:POLITICS

    http://www.stripes.com/news/middle-east/iraq/state-dept-planning-to-field-a-small-army-in-iraq-1.111839

    6. waste,fraud and abuse in both Iraq and Afghanistan amounted to over 30 Billion.

    7. Lastly it’s looking like that 400Billion that was supposed to be cut if congress can’t agree is mostly likely not going to happen.

    • Peter

      Please support Ron Paul if you want to turn this kind of over-reach and abusive spending by big government around. We need to have our “elected” officials comply with the constitution as they pledged
      to do on taking office.

  • Hidan

    Here’s another hypocrite.  Yet so many people Buy it.

    “Iran should not misread the withdrawal of American troops from Iraq as
    affecting the U.S. commitment to the fledgling democracy, Secretary of
    State Hillary Rodham Clinton said Sunday.”
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=141630211

    http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/09/bahrain-united-states-weapon-sale

    “Less than three months after including Bahrain on a list of human rights offenders
    requiring the United Nations’ attention, the Obama administration seems
    to have changed its mind. The US now believes Bahrain is “an important
    force for political stability and economic progress in the Middle East,”
    according to a statement
    from the Defense Department, which intends to sell $53 million worth of
    military equipment and support to the Gulf state, including bunker
    buster missiles and armored vehicles.”

    Of course after proving once again to be complete hypocrites and how Bahrain was arresting/torturing even doctors who treated the protestors the deal sell is on hold atm but expected to go threw after the fake kangaroo court investigation is completed by Bahrain.

    While the US’s relations with Bahrain have been mostly diplomatic this
    year, several months before the protests they were more tangible. A
    recent State Department report
    claimed that the US sold more than $200 million in weapons and
    equipment to Bahrain several months before the protests began in
    February. Of that $200 million, $760,000 was for firearms. As the AP
    noted, the Bahraini government, “confronted demonstrators with cordons
    of armed military and police firing live ammunition.” Quite possibly the
    same ammunition the US sold them.

    The situation in Bahrain continues to worsen: 47 doctors and nurses who helped treat protesters
    during the military crackdown are on military trial for supposedly
    stockpiling weapons; the government sentenced a 20-year-old woman to a
    year in prison for writing a protest poem; and the country announced it would be suing the British newspaper the Independent for libel after the publishing of Robert Fisk’s candid critique of the country.

  • guest

    The “Foreign Policy” link won’t open? Would like to read this….

  • Terry Tree Tree

    Another ‘W’ promise that ‘W’ couldn’t or wouldn’t keep, kept by President Obama?   Republicans don’t like for the U.S. to keep promises made by Republicans?
        Remember ‘W’ standing on possible 9/11 survivors, and promising to get the ones responsible?  Who’s administration KEPT that promise to get Oosama bin Ladin?
       MORE Republican HYPOCRACY!!   How deep do they dig, before they realize they’re making the hole they’re in-DEEPER??

    • Gregg

      Regarding Bin Laden, it’s not about something as small and petty as revenge. It’s about changing the Middle East.

      • Anonymous

        The arrogance of this statement is astounding.
        Changing the Middle East for our gain is not likely to happen as recent events in Egypt. This week in Tunisia 90% of the voting age public voted. This is change that was caused by the people of Tunisia.
        Don’t Tread on Them.  

        • Gregg

          Nothing arrogant about it, whack-a-mole revenge tactics are temporary.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            I agree.  As much of the evidence for invading Iraq was bogus, and there are LOTS of questionable ‘evidences’ of 9/11, whack-a-mole-revenge was probably mis-directed!

      • Anonymous

        How did Iraq make the region better?  Iran is in a much stronger position now. 

        • Gregg

          64% of Iraqis now say Democracy is their preferred form of government. The rape rooms and torture chambers have been closed, the 500 tons of yellowcake removed and the threat of another massacre with WMD is over. Ask Kuwait if they feel safer. Iran is a huge problem and we missed the chance to solve it without force when Obama didn’t support the revolution.

          • Anonymous

            The 64% is of those left after the Suni were cleansed.  Even the successful parts of the invasion weren’t worth the cost to the US. 

          • Gregg

            I disagree but that’s cool.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Thank you.

  • Gregg

    Another failure of the Obama administration.

     http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/22/world/middleeast/united-states-and-iraq-had-not-expected-troops-would-have-to-leave.html?_r=3&hp

    • Hidan

      What? Least your trying

      The Iraqi’s don’t want us there. I guess you could call it a failure that our troops are coming home even know the WH and multiple Neocon didn’t want this to happen. Far closer to a Neocon failure in policy and deed and a clear sign there thinking doesn’t not work.

      Funny how it’s a failure when the U.S. has to honor a agreement.

      • Gregg

        The Iraqis wanted us to stay, Obama wanted us to stay, Muqtada Al-sadr wanted us out. The terrorist win.

        • Hidan

          Again what?

          Did you read your own link?

          “Mr. Maliki was afraid that if he came out publicly in favor of keeping
          troops without gaining the support of other parties in Parliament, his
          rivals — particularly the former Prime Minister Ayad Allawi — would
          exploit the issue to weaken his shaky coalition government.”

  • Hidan

    US Iraqi police funding condemned
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15429002

     
    The US has spent about $8bn (£5bn) on training Iraq’s police since 2003 A
    US government watchdog has criticised a programme to train Iraqi
    police, saying it could become a “bottomless pit” for American money.It also quoted Iraqi Deputy Interior Minister Adnan al-Assadi as
    saying Iraq did not “need” the programme, and he would not ask for it.
    “What tangible benefit will Iraqis see from this police
    training program? With most of the money spent on lodging, security,
    support, all the MOI [Iraqi Ministry of the Interior] gets is a little
    expertise, and that is if the program materialises,” Mr Assadi was
    cited as telling the report’s authors.
    The report also raised questions about the price of the
    programme. It said the cost of each trainer had risen to $6.2 million
    (£3.9m) a year.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1816544 Dan Trindade

    Well, glad thats over. Now perhaps we can really sit on other NATO members to commit the required 2% of GDP towards defense spending so that the next time we go to war, those members that stand with us are actually able to pull their own weight.

    • Anonymous

      The US not NATO was responsible for this fiasco.  I’d agree with on funding other actions though.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1816544 Dan Trindade

        Oh I know, but really Iraq will be out of the media spotlight by next spring and out of the American conciousness within the month so worrying about other NATO police actions like Libya is the most likely next step.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

    U.S. Troops To Leave Iraq: What Happens Now?

                                 WAR CRIMES TRIBUNALS

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

    U.S. Troops To Leave Iraq: What Happens Now?

        Find the missing 2.3 trillion from DOD under comptroller Dov Zakheim, which Donald Rumsfeld mentioned right before the Iraq War started.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

    U.S. Troops To Leave Iraq: What Happens Now?

          A complete corruption audit of security and defense contracts.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

    U.S. Troops To Leave Iraq: What Happens Now?

                      Apology and reparations to the Iraqi people.

    • Gregg

      To the Kurds, we are sorry you no longer have to worry about being gassed again. To former prisoners, we are sorry the wood-chipper for humans in the basement of Abu Graib is gone. To Iraqi women, we are sorry you no longer will be raped in front of your children. To Kuwait, we are sorry you will not be overthrown. To the UN, we are sorry Hussein will no longer build palaces with “oil for food” money. To the purple finger people, we are sorry you can vote.

      I could go on.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

        And you do go on Gregg….   especially with your previous comments abot 500 tons of yellow cake and WMDs.   Are you being sarcastic or do you really believe this stuff?

        None of your isolated incidents compare with the devastation and death the US has caused in Iraq.

        • Gregg

          Gassing the Kurds

          Yellow cake

          Get better news sources.

          • Gregg

            Paolo?

          • Plushkin

            gone singing scales to hidan. please don’t bother.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

            Actually,  Plushkin, Modivations, and Greg Camp are one.  Too funny.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

            MULTIPLE PERSONALITIES  on this forum.

            Evidently,  Modivations is typically using the singing scales analogy, but now he calls himself Plushkin,  but in a session on the End of the Ghaddafi Era on October 20th.,  Hidan accused Guest of being Plushan and Plushan2, (Plushkin)  and today I am convinced that Gregg Camp seems uncannily like Plushkin and Modivations.   

            Now apparently,  I am not the only one noticing that the aforementioned identities  serving as neoconservative trolls on this forum, are probably the same person.  How pathetic.

          • Plushkin

            Yep reality is known for hitting hard and in most inopportune times. The above drivel is simply a realization that one’s views are gathering more objections (due to their obvious flaws) than admiration.  Welcome to real world, troll. 

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

          And Gregg,  you seem to forget it was the US that supported, advised and trained Iraqis, as they repressed the Kurds and attacked Iran.   Will you say sorry for this?

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            How about we apologize for what we’ve done when every other country agrees to do the same?  Perhaps Oprah would be willing to do one more show for a global weeping session.

          • Ray in VT

            That’s a total dodge.  We backed Saddam in the early 1980s.  Should we apologize to the Iraqis for helping to prop up his dictatorship or not?

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            When the Turks apologize to the Kurds and Armenians, the Russians to the Tuvans, the Chinese to the Tibetans, the British to the Irish, and on and on.  We can’t go back and revise history.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

            Greg,  you are always grabbing for weak straws.

  • Guest

    Tom. Can you also talk about the domestic implications of troops coming home? Th Casey Report, which is a $20k/year new investment letter predicts a rise in violent crime because of an increase in unemployment and veterans unable to integrate into society. I don’t believe this but I’d like some discussion on it.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

      Many of these returning troops are lining up for security and police positions…with weapons.  

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        What do you call a security or police officer without a weapon?  A target.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

          You mean like the unarmed Japanese and British bobbies -  prior to the stresses
          placed on society by a lopsided division of wealth and exploitation.

          They used to call them peace keepers and public servants -rather than power-monging armed neihborhood commandos.    

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            We disarmed the Japanese, and the British disarmed themselves.  The Japanese have accepted this, because it fits within their culture.  The British, on the other hand, aren’t doing so well with good citizens and good police being disarmed.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    The hope here is that Iraq will go through its own version of an Arab Spring–kick out their current leadership, form a genuine democratic election, and, likely, produce a real federation.  I’m trying not to give in to fear.

  • TFRX

    What happens now?

    Well, first, we don’t pretend the mediascape isn’t broken. We stop inviting on-air and treating seriously anyone who got Iraq wrong and didn’t fess up. Every unrepentant Beltway Inbred has pretty much burned their bridge on this one.

    We reconsider everyone who got called a traitor in this country for questioning the grounds of the invasion, or for not swallowing whole every bit of the administration’s PR codswallop and wriggle in the Terrorism Color Chart. Everyone who wasn’t “with us”, therefore “agin’ us”.

    Let’s invite on everyone from the Dixie Chicks’ Natalie (“If only I compared Obama to H—-r to Steve Doucy’s face instead of being a Texan ashamed of George W. Bush”) Maines to Valerie (“My
    ambassador husband said ‘boo’ and all I got was outed by Karl Rove”)
    Plame.

    • Anonymous

      And while that’s happening, the Bush, Cheney, Wolfowicz, and Rumsfeld families will live in the general Iraqi population, not hidden behind an unbelievable expensive security apparatus, to help publicize the fruits of our Iraq experience. 

      It would make a great Fox reality show.

    • Zing

      Thank God….good bye Tom “in my book” Friedman.

      • Fredlinskip

        HEY- 
        It’s unpatriotic to put down “my head is flat” Friedman.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1816544 Dan Trindade

    I was 6 days from turning 14 when 9/11 happened, barely 14 when Afghanistan operations began and I was just a sophmore in high school when we invaded Iraq. My entire adult life has been shaped by the fact that my country has been at war. Now, for better or for worse, we are pulling out of Iraq and Afghanistan will hopefully soon follow by 2014. I for one am glad it is finally happening. I want to know what it is like to be an adult in an America that is not at war.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      We haven’t been at war since mid 2003.  We’ve been occupying two nations that we conquered.

      • Drew You Too

        Seriously??? I’m not even going to waste my breath

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

          Yes, seriously.  Were the British at war in India for the some two centuries of their occupation?  This is part of our problem.  Americans can’t use the correct terms to speak about what’s happening, so we often fail to understand the same.

          • Drew You Too

            War: A state of armed conflict between different nations or states or different groups within a nation or state.

            Guess you omit the “or different groups within a nation or state” from your definition.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            I answered this below.  If the police engage in operations against a gang, is that war?  Was Timothy McVeigh at war with the United States and did we win that war when he was captured?

            My point is that war is exactly what you said it was, and neither existed in Iraq after the late spring of 2003.

          • Anonymous

            When our “occupiers” can take off their armor and go out in public without being armed like a soldier on the battlefield, as well as raise their families in those foreign lands, your analogy will have some merit.  For now, it walks, talks and looks like a military engagement, which is a “war” in the modern sense, if not the constitutional one.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            My point is that we’re confusing terms here.  An occupation requires soldiers in gear and uniform.  Calling things by their proper terms helps us to understand what’s going on.  Americans don’t mind war, but we do object to occupation.  That’s why we haven’t supported the last several years.

      • Gregg

        Why would we leave if we’ve “conquered”?

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

          Because we’re not a colonial power.

          • Gregg

            Did we get the oil? It was about oil, wasn’t it?

          • Modavations

            What up General.In my opinion we should grab the fields, until we’re compensated

          • Gregg

            Me, you and Trump agree.

      • Drew You Too

        War: A state of armed conflict between different nations or states or different groups within a nation or state.

        Guess you omit the “or different groups within a nation or state” from your definition.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        War on Drugs; LOSING  War of Occupation in Iraq; LOSING, except for the Military-Industrial-Congressional-Complex!! 
           U.S.M.C. General Smedley Butler seems to have told it as it is!  A LOT of wrong actions, to support Corporations’ interests!

    • Drew You Too

      “I want to know what it is like to be an adult in an America that is not at war.”

      I’d like for you to know what that’s like as well. However, in pronouncing a “War on Terror” we’ve created a never ending battlefield.

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        We are not currently at war anywhere.  Military action does not equal full scale war.

  • Anonymous

    Is it too much to ask that journalists remember that this was an issue during the 2008 campaign?

    And that McCain had to assure voters that he would do exactly what Obama has done:

    McCain Spokesman: U.S. Should Leave If Iraq Wants Us Out

    Aides to Sen. John McCain sought on Wednesday to clear up their boss’ position on Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki’s recent insistence that a timetable for the withdrawal of U.S. troops be included in any security agreement between the two countries.

    “John McCain has always been clear that American forces operate in Iraq only with the consent of that country’s democratically elected government.” — Michael Goldfarb, McCain adviser, July 9 2008.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/09/mccain-spokesman-us-shoul_n_111691.html

    “Well, if that scenario evolves, then I think it’s obvious that we would have to leave because – if it was an elected government of Iraq – and we’ve been asked to leave other places in the world. If it were an extremist government, then I think we would have other challenges, but I don’t see how we could stay when our whole emphasis and policy has been based on turning the Iraqi government over to the Iraqi people.” — John McCain, April 22, 2004.
    http://www.cfr.org/iraq/iraq-test-generation/p6973

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

      Hamas was democratically elected, but the west chose not to recognize the will of the Palestinians.

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        Hamas wouldn’t be a problem if it were just a political party.  The problem is that Hamas is a terrorist organization with a political mouthpiece.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

          Greg, The Palestinian people would strongly disagree with you opinion.  Some people’s terrorists are other people’s freedom fighters.   I would tend to believe the occupied, rather then the occupiers opinion.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            As did some Irish people think about the IRA.  As did some Americans think about George Washington and company.  We’ll see what time shows.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Right On!

      • Plushkin

        Why don’t you just join Hamas then. Will suit you just right. You’ll get free season on Jews, something you and your ilk always wanted. Just ask Hidan, our local expert on virtually everything. 

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

          What happened Plushkin? 
          You run out of logic or moral high ground???  Had to resort to claims of “anti-semetism” ?    Pathetic.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            He’s read your comments–that’s his source.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

            Oh really Greg Camp,  so you can show me a post where I exhibit racial hatred and bigotry ?

            Greg,  You should do your STRETCHING in the morning..during daily exercise – not on discussion forums.

          • Plushkin

            It is much harder to find anything by you that is not bigoted, Caruso. Stick to scales.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

            Hey Plushkin and Greg,   again.. you both lack logic.  

            NPR does not post racist or bigoted posts as a policy. They will censor them.  So what are you both talking about?   are you serious?

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            You constantly hint at neferious activities on the part of the state of Israel.  You say that Jews control American media and Congress.  That looks a whole lot like anti-Semitism.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

            Are you transliterating, misquoting or trying to suck me in.    I never made that statement.  

            Good interns are hard to find.   You should take an early lunch.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            Are you telling me that I didn’t read a comment from you accusing the Mossad of being involved in 9/11?  How about AIPAC having bought Congress?  How about your comments on how the mainstream media (MSM, in your parlance) is controlled by Jews?

            I’d like to talk to the other Paolo Caruso, please.  Your innocent personality needs to go hide.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

            So you interpret racial hatred through my parlance???   Are you serious Greg.    I hate no humans on this planet..but I do dislike certain organizations.  You have a little mind.

          • Modavations

            Dude you’re an anti-semite,but in America ,you’re free to be one.I will defend youre right to a contrarian opinion.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

            Yes,  Modivations and Greg Camp (and his alter-ego Plushkin) are the resident trolls, guarding against those who protest unjust wars, the new American police state, and  defend Palestinian rights.

            Dude !!   your ONLY defense is to cry ANTI-SEMITISM.  Its really getting worn out.   Not just by me, but by the rest of the world.
            You are the real haters and proponents of death and destruction – not me dude.

          • Modavations

            Palestinian citizens of Isreal(15%ish)have far more political rights and economic mobility, then in Palestine.In Palestrine,like on NPR,if you dissent,they smash in your skull with a Ball Peen Hammer,then they go after your relatives.In free America ,you can be an anti-semite,or a rascist and the”Free Men”will defend your rights

          • Plushkin

            Oh, our little pretensions cry baby – “pali rights, no wars, income equality, down with Rothschilds” and so forth. All slogans and no substance. Once again  — feel so raw about any of this? Join Hamas, OWS, or CAIR or Hidan or Dee and  yes  we will keep up releasing thousands of them in exchange for a few, so you won’t feel so lonely.
            You’re the real problem, real terrorists, real murderers  and really brainless.

          • Plushkin

             It is your only OFFENSE – blame everything on Israel and Jews, dummy.
            “NPR does not post racist or bigoted posts as a policy. They will censor them” – hmm… why would you know that, I wonder?

          • Plushkin

            evoking “prove it!” ? I thought that was a refuge for scoundrels…
            Such a joke, these self righteous libs. It is nauseating.  

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

            Plushkin????  Is that you Greg Camp?   It is you …isn’t it??
            Calling me an anti-semetic self rightious lib and you deny being a neocon.   LOL LOL LOL  ( I am truly laughing out loud…really)

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            Nope, Plushkin is someone else.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

            that was Sybil’s excuse.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            I take it that you mean the ancient Roman prophet?

          • Plushkin

            I’ve been called many names, never Greg Camp though. But facts don’t stay in a way of omnipotent liberal thinking, it is easier to disregard the inconvenient truths.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            People call me Greg Camp all the time.  Don’t take it too seriously.

          • Modavations

            If these guys had their way,they’d ban the 1st ammendment.

          • Modavations

            I thought Neocons were guys who want to inject laissez faire economics into totalitarian states.Like Japan,Like Korea,Like Germany after WW11

          • Plushkin

            precisely that.

    • TFRX

      Can I like this more than once?

      Of course it’s too much to ask. It’s an agreed mediafact that Republicans’ source of manly manstrength comes from always having been adamantly opposed to anything Obama favors or does, no matter how few microseconds ago they supported it.

      Obama’s looking across the aisle and saying “Okay, you chumps, I like it. Now whadya think?” is all it takes for that to get ret-conned out of existence.

  • Anne in VT

    In my view, the only people who are sorry that we are withdrawing our forces from Iraq are those who profit from the military industrial complex.  This gives them one less excuse to wallow in the trough of tax payer funded military spending.  I, for one, am glad to see the troops come home from this very costly boondoggle initiated by the previous adminstration.

    • John – Williamstown, VT

      Those people will still profit – we are leaving behind a large number of US paid military contractors (think Blackwater) classified as ‘advisors’ & ‘security personnel.’  What they really are is US paid mercenaries. 

      • Anne in VT

        I agree with you completely.  Hopefully, however, the totality of what the MI complex can drink from the public trough with our reduced presence in Iraq will be much less than we are currently spending there.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Xe, and a lot of other names Blackwater changed to, because of the crimes they committed! 
             Yes, they are really paid mercenaries, with NO accountability for their crimes!   Like the SCOTUS ‘corporate citizens’, when they commit too many, or too large of crimes, they change the name and go on committing crimes, until they need to change name again.

  • JJCAJKO

    GOOD MORNING TOM , IT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING THE IRAQ WAS TO FIT THE WAR BILL FOR THEIR FREEDOM , NOW  AN AMERICAN  CONGRESSMAN WENT TO COLLECT THIS PAYMENT A FEW MONTHS AGO AND HE WAS BOOTED OUT OF IRAQ…. SO WHAT IS THE TRUTH , I HOPE THIS COMMENT REACHES YOU - POST HASTE., JERRY / VT

  • Anonymous

    Time and again I here the cost in terms of lives and money. Many of the wounded will suffer a lifetime of PTSD, TBI, burns, amputations, maiming and hidden excrutitiatingly painful injuries. There numbers of our faithful soldiers wounded an the toll it has taken on them and their families is painfully understated. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

    Evidently Mr. Hill has selective memory as well.   It was the US invasion that opened the way for this shiite-sunni infighting.  And it is questioned whether some of this destruction of mosques were not false flags to further incite the DIVIDE AND CONQUER strategy.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Under what circumstances would you not use the term, “false flag”?

    • Plushkin

      yep, as if they were not at it for the last thousand years. You’re funny.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

        Hey Plush,   who are THEY ?

        • Plushkin

           shia and sunnis, genius.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

            No Plush, the ones instigating the divide and conquer through false flag events ?

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            There you go with that false flag accusation again.  As I asked before, are there any situations that you would not call a false flag?

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

            Greg,  its so unfair.   You have your alter-identities to give yourself “like” votes.

          • Plushkin

            why? forgot hidan’s credentials or something?

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            Here’s a case of using your methods–the Occupy Wall Street crowd are being led on by the CIA and the Israeli Mossad to instigate police action and martial law.

            I don’t think that, but it follows the same process that you use.

          • Plushkin

            another loaded question fallacy from a demagogue Caruso.

  • Ellen Dibble

    Hillary Clinton was in Uzbekistan the other day, and I think Tajikstan, saying that the supply route through Pakistan is getting less feasible, and the northern route is getting boosted.  And I believe I heard her list out other countries near Iran that have agreements with the United States being Jordan, Turkey.  I’m thinking Turkey is having both earthquake and Kurdish uprising might on the border (and over the border) with Iraq.
        All of which suggests that a regional approach to “Iranian influence” should not depend on Iraq.  After all, Iraq in some ways was deprived of the opportunity to conduct their own revolution.  We may need Iraqis to have a sense of ownership of their own government, and it’s hard to do that while having a large military presence.  I remember Saddam Hussein throwing hundreds of thousands of Iraqi soldiers against Iran and vice versa.  I’m not sure what the next confrontation there might be.

  • Drew You Too

    wrong place, moved

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Distinguish between a war and police action against terrorists or civil unrest.  I agree that there are grey areas here, but the two are different.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Unfair–you didn’t move my reply as well.

  • Jjcajko

    hello TOM , now possibly , with the IRAQ FIASCO  and occupation of arab land by so called  AMERICAN infidels , PALESTINE feels the same way with the occupation of their land by ISRAEL ….How would we feel if the usa becomes occupied by another country..what would our reaction be???/…jerry / vermont

  • http://www.facebook.com/jimhfoster Jim Foster

    So, in the crazy quilt world of the right wing, Pres. Obama has failed by pulling out the troops according to the schedule set up by Pres. George W. Bush.  Where were they when GWB established this deadline?  Cheering him on, no doubt.

    • BHA in Vermont

      Simple answer: To the right wing, anything and everything that a Democrat President (Obama or any other) is BAD, STUPID and sending the country in the wrong direction.

      Maybe President Obama should pull a Briar Rabbit – propose the things the right wants. Perhaps in the backlash we will get National Single Payer health care.

      • TFRX

        Obama’s been doing that for years. It’s just that between Fox and Rush and the Evening News, you’ll barely hear it.

        In an alternate universe, if President McCain announced what Obama did re Iraq, the Foxnation crew would have set up the scaffolding for a viewing station for a ticker-tape parade down Broadway already, and unironically re-hung the “Mission Accomplished” banner behind it.
         

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Caller, we had no right to be there?  We should allow festering dictators to have their way without response?  The only question was one of our ability, not our right.

    • Drew You Too

      Maybe we should allow them to be there, especially when we placed and or enabled them to be there in the first place.

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        To be sure, but we could just as well say that we are obliged to clean up the mess that we created.

    • BHA in Vermont

      Greg
      - Robert Mugabe, President of Zimbabwe, is worse than Saddam ever was, yet we do nothing. A country that was exporting food is now starving.
      - North Korea has suffered for nearly 60 years under dictators that live the high life while the people starve.

      Unless you think we should invade every country with a brutal dictator, I suggest the caller was right.

      Even if you DON’T think that, the caller was right. “We” were lied to by the prior administration.  “We” invaded a country that was not a current threat to any nation. A guy with a big mouth and a lot of bravado isn’t necessarily a threat. If that were the case here, the 1st amendment would have to be scrapped.

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        I agree that both of those countries deserve an invasion.  I did say the question is whether we’re able to do it, not whether it’s our right.

        • Adks12020

          are you serious?!! So you’re saying it’s our right to invade whatever country we want, whenever we want, as long as we don’t screw it up? Get real man. 

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

            The term “are you serious”  apparently is becoming a common response to Greg Camp’s posts.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            Something like what you see in response to yours. . .

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        On the other hand, I’d also suggest that the people of those two countries are failing to do their human duty.

        • BHA in Vermont

          I see, they need their own “Arab Spring”. Got it.
          Shouldn’t the Iraqis have done the same thing then?

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            Yes, they ought to have done so.

  • BHA in Vermont

    I hope our soldiers watch their backs on the way out. I can envision al Sadr’s people taking more and more shots as the last troops head to the airport. Who is going to secure Ambush Alley? I’m not so sure everyone in the Iraqi army is “all pro” and may look the other way.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      I don’t doubt that they’d like to do that, but it would be counterproductive, since it would give us a reason to respond in force.

    • Anonymous

      That, of course, is going to be the reason our troops don’t leave as currently planned.  Iraq plans will be dictated by the most extreme players, as is Israeli-Palestinian, US-Pakistan, etc. policy. 

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Americans don’t mind war, but we object to occupation.  The former involves rapid movement and victory, while the latter is messy and costly.

    • Peter

      Greg, I as an American do “mind” War. Your comments are offensive and based on ignorance and false premises.
      Tom, why can’t just say the Bush administration “Lied” to us all.
      Just because there are millions of brainwashed neocons like Greg C,
      doesn’t give them the right to create fantasy “Intelligence” to justify Illegal use of force around the world.

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        Where did I say that I believe the “intelligence,” as you put it?

        • Peter

          I’m referring to the Bush administration and their use of cooked up “intel”

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            You identified me as a brainwashed neocon, something I certainly am not.

          • Peter

            Any reference to you Greg, I retract now and just wished to point out that a lot of us, me included, have been brainwashed by M.S.M.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            The evidence is that Saddam himself was lied to about weapons of mass destruction.  He certainly behaved like someone with something to hide.

          • Modavations

            I theorize. it was an attempt to scare off Iran(they were circling Saddaam like a Great White Shrak)

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

            Ha greg,  you recklessly throw around accusations of anti-semetism,  but you deny being a neocon.   Your political affiliations are all too clear.   Too funny.

          • Modavations

            Dude,to average,NPRer,any contrary view means you’re a Troll.The left is not open minded,or tolerant.They are Lennin’s useful idiots.

          • Modavations

            I can still see Clinton’s CIA guy, bending over and saying into Bush’s ear,”it’s a slam dunk Mr.President”.Hilary,J.Kerry,B.Kerry(he said Iraq had long range missile,with Nukes or Germs,or something,ready to go.The Brits thought they had WMD,the French thought they had WMD………Tom,bad intelligence is not lying,as you intimated

          • Anonymous

            They trusted Bush and other US leaders.  No one could believe these guys would make up shit like this.  Never underestimate the potential of  arrogant neocons to use any means to justify their (utterly unrealistic) ends.

          • Modavations

            You must have missed the part about Hilary,J.Kerry,B.Kerry,etc,.Maybe you have a “Lefty”computer that blocks contrarian speech.Now go back and reread my list of culprits.

          • Anonymous

            It’s apparently a well known fact in your universe that each and every Congress member has their own intelligence staff and don’t have to rely on the executive branch for this info.  This was a well orchestrated a politically timed act of deception by the neocons running the Bush administration.  Unfortunately for those genii in charge, things didn’t go as planned.  Mission not so accomplished.

  • Sam, Buffalo, NY

    Tom,

    Have you heard from any, ANY, Iragi locals? And what their opinion on the withdrawal is?

    Thank you

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

    Let’s place some bets on how long this $600 million dollar embassy in Iraq stays in US hands.   I say less than 10 years…maybe 5.

     

  • Bill

    Going forward it’s going to get quite ugly in northern Iraq – the Kurds have never been reintegrated into Iraq after  our invasion. Given the amount of oil there, I expect Iraq will reintegrate this territory, but as before, at the expense of the Kurds. And it’s likely Turkey will help. It’s another humanitarian disaster in the making.

    • Anonymous

      Gosh, a strategic thinker with some knowledge of the players and their history.  Your skills are useless to our global plans, judging by history.

  • Plushkin

    This is a very clever move by current administration. They can’t lose this one. Everything goes fine (highly unlikely) – they reap all the benefits and spoils, otherwise they will be first to remind that it was actually Bush’s fault.
    Brilliant!

  • Modavations

    The 48th(?)least business friendly state is Mass and the 4th largest war machine state, is Ma.

  • Modavations

    If we had drilled baby drill,10 yrs ago(the left said it won’t help because it would take 5 years to see any production)we’d be much richer and could have turned our backs on the tyrants of the  middle east.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Where are we going to drill, and how much will we obtain?

      • Modavations

        The oil shales of Utah and Buford Bay Alaska

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

          My point in asking is to observe that the oil in our territory is increasingly difficult to obtain and process.  Oil is finite and soon to be unproductive.

          • Modavations

            Oil shale,frigging fraccing.How do you think they get the oil in Alberta.Our science yields new techniques.The combustion engine is the answer.Just make it more effiecient.Europe is loaded with the New Diesels ,that get 45 miles per gallon

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Move to within 1/2 mile, and down-wind, getting your water from the run-off, and tell us how EPA is so bad!
              Put ALL the toxic wastes that we regulate, in your yard!  You love it so much!  Enjoy it to the max, up close and personal!

          • Modavations

            The average life span in the US is 80(78 guys,82 women).We have the strictest environmental laws and in my opinion,are the cleanest country in the world.Not including the Dem.controlled ghettos.You “do Gooders”spend your lives in crisis and looking for crises.If it’s the last thing I do,I’m gonna teach you guys to laugh again.

    • Anonymous

      You do know that the price of oil is set by the market, right?
      Are you also not aware that most of the oil we use comes from Canada. Although here in the East coast we use a combination of oil and gas for energy and most of that oil does come the Middle East the price is still set by the market rates. It does not matter how much we drill here as it will all be sold on the open market.
      In short the only people who benefit are the oil companies with larger profits. As to the jobs, why are oil industry jobs more important than first responders or teachers? The regulation comment is nothing but pure hogwash. I don’t know I kind of like having clean air to breath and clean water to drink.
      You’re statements are pretty much uninformed as are Welch’s.

      • Modavations

        We get our oil from Alberta(I’ve always said we should have invaded Alberta!!!),because all our fields were put off line,by the left.Look at Colorado,Utah,N.Y.,Penn.,S.Dakota(?)3.5% unemployement).I won’t even mention Alaska.You guys put Anwar off limits, to protect the migratory paths of mosquitos..

        • Anonymous

          It’s amazing how you can’t even answer to the facts.
          Drilling for more oil does nothing but increase the supply for the oil companies. Unless we nationalize the oil industry the price of oil will be dictated by the market, period. You drill on every inch of Anwar and if the price for a barrel of crude was $100 or more that’s what we would be paying. Interesting how you don’t mention the lack of refineries as a problem in the price of gas at the pump. Also speculators, who drive the price of everything up, or down.

          • Modavations

            Sugar,coal,gold,porkbellies,plantinum,orange juice,are all traded on the world market.Even Al Gore’s ,friggin Carbon Coupons, were to be traded on a world bourse.By the way,is he still molesting masseuses.Again,if we secure or own oil, we can turn our back on the Despots of the MidEast

          • Modavations

            Spare me.Every time anyone wants to build anything,one of you guys finds an endangered Deer Tick.Like Mr Maddow and her commercial about building a new Hoover Dam.Not a prayer dude.All the Solar projects in the friggin Mojave,were held up for years because of a tortoise.By the way.Mars is more hospitable then Anwar

          • notafeminista

            It increases supply to oil companies which then increases the supply to consumers.  Oil doesn’t do oil companies any good unless they SELL it.  Oil (refined or unrefined) doesn’t do anyone any good just sitting around in a barrel.

            EVERYTHING (including the number of refineries) goes into the cost of a gallon at the pump.  Nationalize it though, and you’ll have one person (most likely one of your dreaded %) deciding what you should pay.   On a whim.

          • notafeminista

            Dang…dreaded 1 % that should read.  Dreadful editing on my part.

        • Adks12020

          I’m confused.  Did you just say that NY has 3.5% unemployment?  I live in NY and I have to tell you that isn’t even close.  Maybe in small local areas down near the city but upstate NY has between 8-10% unemployment with some areas significantly higher….and everyone from Albany and above gets a lot of energy from Canada which has nothing to do with unemployment levels.  There is some fracking in western NY and that is where the highest unemployment levels in the state are…and where the economy is virtually stopped…that’s why Gov. Cuomo just made a speech about ways to jump start the western NY economy…hint.

      • Modavations

        Pres.Obama pulled the plug on the EPA,two weeks ago.

  • Modavations

    Yesterday,on Meet the Press(?),Jack Welch was asked what we should do witth the economy.He said “Drill baby drill(50,000 go to work immediately,at $80,000ish per annum)ban all regulations until the unemployement reaches a certain level,and quit threatening tax increases.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Did the WHOLE “Drill, Baby, Drill!” crowd take their personal yatchs, rent boats, and CLEAN UP the Spill, BAby, Spill??  When they form an Immediate Response Group of themselves, that keeps ANY and ALL spills to less than they will eat or drink, they might have a point!

      • Modavations

        Dude,50,000(? )die in car accidents per annum.Let’s ban cars.Better yet,let’s just drill in Nigeria,where they have “blow ups” that incinerate 100′s at a whack.Every year we go back and forth with the Swiss,for the cleanest,most efficient economies.I’ll put our safety records,up against anyones.By the way,did the whole “climate gang”, not take their private jets to Cancun.It was pathetic

        • Terry Tree Tree

          I WORK some of those fatalities!  Do you?  Cutting bodies out of wrecked cars might give you a better perspective of ‘personal responsibility’!

          • notafeminista

            Implication being that one should be personally responsible to suit someone else?

      • notafeminista

        Then stop driving, remove all wall to wall carpeting, turn off any air conditioners (central or otherwise), empty all ice makers and trays from the house, remove all light bulbs (CFL or otherwise) – in short anything that is either petroleum based or consumes energy.  Then you can stop worrying about spills, baby.

        • Modavations

          Hypocritical Luddites.If the left has it’s way there’d be no first amendment.Has anyone got a critique of the De Kooning show yet.

          • notafeminista

            That’s just it – the Left AREN’T Luddites.  The Left uses energy including oil every bit as much if not more and then gets mad when someone supplies their demand.  Like 8 year olds they are.

          • Modavations

            Ouch,Most righteous lady.Watch out for those Ball Peens.

        • Anonymous

          So your point is that if you’re going to do something, do it in the most inefficient way possible with no attention to its ramifications?

          • notafeminista

            Who’s talking about efficiency?

          • Anonymous

            No one.  That’s the problem.  As Dick Cheney said:  “Conservation may be a sign of personal virtue, but it is not a
            sufficient basis for a sound, comprehensive energy policy.”

          • notafeminista

            Ok I’m confused.  Terry is unhappy that rich people don’t clean up oil spills (as though rich people are the only ones who use oil) and you are talking about efficiency. 

            I’m all about efficiency as it tends to cut costs and make a business more profitable.  The Left on the other hand tends to disagree.

            Where are we exactly here?

          • Anonymous

            We’re at you wanting to lessen our dependence on foreign oil but refusing to foster energy conservation.  Your inability to connect the dots between “energy efficiency” and “conservation” tells me all I need to know.

          • notafeminista

            How does lessening dependence on foreign oil foster reduced consumption?

          • notafeminista

            How does lessening dependence on foreign oil foster reduced consumption?

          • Gregg

            Truer words have never been spoken, that doesn’t mean conservation isn’t groovy. 

  • Modavations

    At the BMFA, in celebration of Halloween(banned in Sommerville,of course)they have set aside a “Dorian Grey”,Portrait Gallery.They have hung paintings ,of all the Solons who have served over 20 years.The most gruesome, by far,was Barney Frank.Think of Munch’s,”The Scream”.

  • Modavations

    Get out of Iraq,get out of Afganastan and charge every host country, that wants our protective umbrella.

    • Anonymous

      Foolish I knew.  But naive in addition is a bad combination.  You really think we’re involved in these military excursions at the behest of the “host country”?

      • Modavations

        Germany,Japan,Korea,sea routes of China,sea routes around Straits of Hormuz.Bring our boys home,or demend recompense.

        • Wotan_617

          Read Chalmers Johnson and you’d only be about 10 years behind. 10 years behind is still more current than the ignorant talking point of the above. In the countries you mention above, this issue is debated quite often with more authority and accuracy. In addition to some of the excerpt that will follow, the summer was particular filled with noise on the Korean peninsula where scandals broke involving the US forces in Korea (USFK). A cache of illegally buried toxic waste was unearthed on the bases occupied by the USFK. It was thought earlier in the scandal that huge barrels of Agent Orange had been buried with US servicemen who are suffering from strange diseases following their tour of duty on the peninsula joining in the accusation. That turned out to be overblown but the barrels of toxins, though not agent orange, were indeed illegally buried and still remain toxins that need to be cleaned up. ROK bears of the cost of the environmental clean-up. Also, currently the USFK is under a strict curfew following one certain rape of an teenager and another accusation of separate rape. Rapes and murder by US servicemen are hardly extraordinary. Often they’re extraordinary in their callousness and brutality. Ask any national of the three countries you’ve listed above.

          Now, ROK has maintained it’s responsible for roughly 60% of housing USFK. Japan maintains they’re up to more than 70% of the total costs.

          [citations]

          “In a recent MND press release, the ROKG estimated that it would pay about half of the total cost of about $10 billion to relocate U.S. Forces Korea (USFK) to Pyeongtaek/Camp Humphreys,” the then U.S. ambassador Alexander Vershbow said in the cable classified as confidential. “However, USFK estimates that the ROK share will be far more than half.”

          Vershbow claimed that Korea’s contribution would be about 93 percent of the total cost and that the MND did not count burden-sharing costs (SMA: Special Measures Agreement) and ROK private-sector build-to-lease (BTL) construction which comes from its own budget.

          http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2011/10/113_95655.html

          “I suggest they read Gavan McCormack’s comprehensive “Client State: Japan in the American Embrace” (2007) and some of the WikiLeaks-exposed official telegrams sent to Washington from the U.S. Embassy in Tokyo to see for themselves the Machiavellian way the U.S. government handles Japan.

          With the Futenma-to-Henoko relocation plan, the United States is trying to perpetuate its military presence in Japan forever. Futenma will be returned, the U.S. assures us, but only if its facilities are relocated to the Henoko district in northern Okinawa at a cost of $12 billion, paid by Japanese taxpayers of course.”

          http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/rc20110605a6.html

          [/citations]

          I suggest you also get current instead of wasting time here day in and day out posting outdated rubbish. That’s all.

          • Modavations

            What is your point.Keep it to one paragraph please.I’ve got ADHD.Now where the hell were we……..

          • Wotan_617

            That you’re an imbecile. That should be easy enough for even you to understand.

          • Modavations

            Stop with the immature names.Seriously,I did not get your point

          • Terry Tree Tree

            You’re not the only person here that Wotan is talking to. 
                Sorry for the ADHD.

  • Modavations

    Harrisburg,the capital of Penn.,declared bankruptcy.The entire state of R.I.,teeters.It’s all pensions and health plans for govt.employees

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Banksters will PROFIT, though, so all is alright in the ‘conservative’ world.

      • Modavations

        Good.Maybe then we won’t have to bail out their sorry asses.As I said last week,USA Today ran a story saying 64%of aMERICA BLAMES OUR GOVT and 30% blame the banks.I blame Mr.Cox, B.Frank,C.Dodd .I have dusted off my old gas mask.It’s time to march on Wash..,,To quote Ronasldo Maximus,Govt is the problem,not the solution

        • Anonymous

          I blame ignorance, and misinformation. Such as the junk you keep posting.

          • Modavations

            Names,names and more names.Please tell me you’re under 30.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          We ALREADY bailed out their sorry asses, and they gave themselves BONUSES, to celebrate their bilking of the citizens and depositors!!
               What rock have you been hiding under for the past FOUR years?  You missed that news?  Haven’t YOU chided others for NOT being current?
              Banksters had a LOT of influence on Frank and Dodd, plus a LOT more of OUR elected ‘representatives’, that have sold out to the ‘corporate citizens’, banksters and their ilk!

          • Modavations

            How do you feel about Johnson,Frank Raines and Jamie Gorelick taking 100mill in commission ,from Fannie.I’m gonna say it again.In USA Today 64% blamed the financial meltdown on the Govt.Rubin and all the Wall St.guys are mainly Dems.No one ever got more contributions then Obama

    • Anonymous

      Yes, the plan to totally destroy the middle call in the USA and put all of its money in the hands of people who have been proven to be well-connected crooks is nearing completion.  A pension system that the greatest generation took for granted is almost fully gutted.  Just gotta’ repeal the estate tax so none of the crooks’ heirs have to work either.

      • Modavations

        When they open the s.s “lock box’,moths fly out.

  • Heaviest Cat

    I tuned in late, but was disappointed but at this point not surprised that “on Point” failed to have a guest whoo opposed the war on principle; who would claim that the war was based on a system of lies perpetrated by the vile w and his minions.

    • Zing

      Most dems followed like sheep…get over it.

      • paradox1

        If you weren’t with the  lies, unecessary War, extraordinary rendition, and “enhanced interrogation technique” than you were  unpatriotic and not quite American.

        Matter of fact – you might as well have been a terrorist. 

  • Long Time On Point Listener

    Even if Obama does pull U.S. troops out of Iraq (which he won’t), there will still be thousands of U.S. ‘contractors’ left in Iraq, further bankrupting the U.S. into the financial abyss.

    I expect to see On Point dedicate a show this week to the 78 Somalians Obama had killed in a drone strike.
    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/204501.html

    • Jasoturner

      Those contractors will be hounded out soon enough.  Iran will help see to that.

  • Jasoturner

    Almost a decade pouring blood and treasure into Iraq, and now we are walking away without a clear understanding of what we actually accomplished.  Is the world a better place?  In sum, probably not.  Too much human wreckage resulted from our invasion.  I imagine many military families are torn between relief and melancholy, asking themselves, “just what was it all for?”

  • Modavations

    Anybody see Dekooning yet

  • GMG

    When Ambassador Hill says the Americans are not to blame for the ethnic violence in Iraq, he leaves out the fact that none of these other actors would have been able to do the damage they did without the American invasion and the dissolution of the Iraqi army and civil society that followed.  No, all of this violence was the result, one way or other, of the decisions of misguided and inept American political leadership.  

  • SoWhatLargesse

    Anyone mention Obama’ 2008 campaign promise of having all combat brigades out of Iraq in 16 months.

    Doesn’t that make him about 16 months too late?

    What about all the money we’re spending on contractors and ‘security’?
    http://iraq.usembassy.gov/iraq/security_companies.html

    Wonder if were going to draw down on our 104 acre (about 80 football fields) US Embassy in Baghdad that cost $700 Million to build its 21 buildings, with it’s $1.2 Billion/year operating budget, and the almost 4000 people it employs?

    http://thinkprogress.org/security/2007/05/29/13350/photos-embassy-iraq

    Probably not.

    • Modavations

      He was going to reduce the deficit by one half,by his third year

    • HowMuch

      Once the U.S. military presence in Iraq is gone, the embassy in Baghdad, the largest U.S. embassy in the world, will be staffed by approximately 1,700 diplomats and representatives of various cabinet agencies. They will be supported by approximately 5,000 security contractors. There will also be up to 4,000 contractors supporting every service for U.S. personnel in Iraq from food to sanitation and anything else necessary for diplomats to carry out their jobs.

      http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/21/left-behind-in-iraq-thousands-of-contractors

  • Modavations

    Look at the picture of Ms..Warren in the B.Globe and tell me the shills didn’t airbrush

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

      You are so predictable Modavation (Guest, Greg, Pushlin, Pushlik etc).     I dont believe there are shills fronting for Warren,  but for some reason she threatens your interests.

      • Plushkin

        sheer bliss to deal with you imbecile

        • Modavations

          If the left had it’s way they’d ban the 1st amendment

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

            I like the way Plushkin, Modavations and Greg Camp give each other “like” votes.   Im sure its all the same person.

      • Modavations

        For a 62 yr old woman, she sure found a cure for wrinkles.In fact,she should replace Cindy Crawford in the cosmetic adds.The bias of the B.Globe never ceases to amaze

        • notafeminista

          Well they broke the fish story n all…cut ‘em some slack.

      • Hidan

        So you once again encountered the unstable Pluskin, add Mira. Though Gregg is tiresome I doubt his pluskin. He’s not nearly as hateful and angry. Pluskin is a Kamikaze troll with the goal of using himself to take out others. He hate me because I cut into his narrative on Israel which i’m guessing he was brought up believing and like all hateful little trolls he can’t stand it. 

        NPR Mod take note of Pluskin

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

          Hidan,  Its called the Sybil Troll Syndrome.   I noticed about 5 or six identities spouting the same catch phrases.  They (he) attack(s) logic like paranhas…actually more like sand flies.   I noticed last thursday you diagnosed the same psychosis. Wasnt that hard to figure out.

          • notafeminista

            http://www.salon.com/2011/10/16/sybil_exposed_memory_lies_and_therapy/

            Turns out “Sybil” …was …shall we say…inaccurate.

          • Gregg

            Catch phrases like “greedy corporations” or “fair share”?

          • Hidan

            After further review not only is Pluskin the many of the above stated names he’s also  ArnoldWalker . I replied to ArnoldWalker on http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/10/12/occupy-wall-street. Pluskin than changed Arnold Walker to Guest on a bit before 10/20/2011 02:31 PM on the The End of the Gadhafi Thead.  But what is interesting is this 10/13/2011 02:01 PM comment on the OWS thread where in cheers on pretty much himself. Check out buster and Ultra comment on the OWS thread linking Arnold Walker to modavation.

            here’s a comment from pluskin/arnoldwalker

            “Guest 10/12/2011 05:15 PM in reply to petern
            I might actually agree about not having a true face just yet.
            Time will tell. However the argument, that a movement is automatically
            not racist/antisemitic  if it has blacks/jews who support it, is flawed.
            There are numerous examples to the contrary.”

            Than he stated on10/12/2011 10:58 PM  all blacks were anti-semites in the OWS protest with this.

            My rely to Arnold Was, yet when you look at the poster it’s now Guest and links to Pluskins comments.

            “http://www.thejewishweek.com/n…

            Wall Street demonstrations feature Shabbat potluck, possible Yom Kippur service and growing number of Jewish groups.”

          • Plushkin

             Yeah, two geniuses at work together. I leave to WBUR to set the record straight as I don’t deal with imbeciles as a matter of principal. 

          • Hidan

            Didn’t know you had Principals.

          • Plushkin

            LOL. That’s ’cause you know n-o-t-h-i-n-g. 

        • Plushkin

          Hidan once again proves that nothing works like a projection of one’s own faults onto others. Pitiful empty headed being.

  • Cuttothechase

    It was the American military foot print on Arab sand that brought about 911. Economic potential and the value of a possible democracy are not worth the continued loss of life in the region. The real problem faced by the entire world is generally not discussed and that is the middle-easts blind obediance to some frm of strict Islamic law. Any that do not bow to this belief will always be nothing more that an infidel.  Only whey they overtly denouce the slaughter of innocent men, women and children in the name of ‘their God’ will there be a chance for peace and freedom. Any other discussion is meaningless.

    • Modavations

      The Crusades never ended.If we’d Drill Baby Drill,we could walk away

      • Anonymous

        Not really. Fact: In 2007, about 23% of U.S. “imported” oil came from the Middle East. This
        percentage includes the following countries: Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates. Saudi Arabia makes us 17% of that 23%. This is according to the U.S. Department of Economics.

        Most of the oil from the Middle East goes to Europe and other countries, such as China.

        • Modavations

          I repeat.If we have our own sources we can turn our backs on the tyrants,we can pull our fleets from the Straits of Hormuz.I don’t like having to watch My President, bow to the Saudi Despots.

          • nj

            Repeating ignorant nonsense doesn’t make it true.

  • Modavations

    Show me a Dem.on the intellifgence commitee,that didn’t agree on war.Bob Kerrry was talking about, either atomic tipped,or germ tipped,long range missled, rready to rip.Do you guys have computers that delete info you disagree with.I’ve given you these names 50 times. and that CIA guy was Clintons to boot.

    • Roy Mac

      WTF are you drivelling on about?  Get some frigging sleep and come back when you’ve sobered up!  Or, better yet, don’t come back–you’re just taking up space.

  • WrongPriorities

    When are our troops going to leave Germany?

    Why do we have over 50,000 troops in 20 bases there?

    http://militarybases.com/overseas/germany

    We’ve closed 350 military bases in the US since 1989, but we have over 800 military bases in 135 countries around the globe.

    Talk about exporting jobs and stimulating economies overseas.

    Who and what are we protecting?

    • wavre

      corporations and their interests…

    • notafeminista

      Ask the South Koreans.

      • Anonymous

        Yes, ask the south Koreans and a great deal will say they feel no safer with the US forces there.

        • notafeminista

          Their govt can tell us to leave.

          • GoAwayLittleGirl

            Like they have a choice.  See all those Korean-made cars on the roads?

          • Anonymous

            LOL. Talk about totally missing the point. I just hope there aren’t as many Americans with the same mindsets in twenty or thirty years who’ll be telling the Iraqis that they owe us something for having saved them. It’s a huge reason why Americans are thought to be so “ugly, uncouth” and pretty much reviled. Good job.

  • Roy Mac

    Well, Hill was there and that counts for a lot.  But, why shouldn’t we assume we’re the only ones with 3-digit IQs?  The Iraquis have been sheep/goats for decades.

  • Fredlinskip

    Most GOP presidential candiates are disappointed we’re not going to maintain large troop levels in Iraq for bunch more years????

      Apparently, like W, they believe a GOP policy could never be wrong.
    To learn something- to do something new- to think- “to grow up- “to admit that GOP’ers may actually have human characteristics-
    this would be flip-flopping

    Just keep on doing the same old same old- and make sure those corporate undisclosed campaign checks keep roling in.

    • Gregg

      Obama worked very hard to keep a presence in Iraq and failed. It’s what he wanted. He’s the President now.

      • Fredlinskip

        “We’s all freedom-fighters now.”

        • ScaryStuff

          And if we are all ‘freedom-fighters’ now, then by the patriot’s act interpretation that mean’s we are all ‘terrorists’ and can be treated as ‘enemy-combatants’ which have no civil rights and can be treated as a non-person.

  • MotherFrackers

    What Iraq’s oil about Alfie?

    Development of the Iraqi oil fields over the next decade will generate billions of dollars in revenues for the oil service companies, no matter which international oil and gas companies are awarded the leases.

    “Iraq is a huge opportunity for contractors,” Alex Munton, a Middle East analyst for Wood Mackenzie, a research and consulting firm based in Edinburgh, said by telephone.

    Mr. Munton estimated that about half of the $150 billion the international majors are expected to invest at Iraqi oil fields over the next decade would go to drilling subcontractors — most of it to the big four operators, which all have ties to the Texas oil industry.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/17/business/energy-environment/17oil.html

    (The ‘Big Four’ Oil Service Companies):

    Halliburton and Baker Hughes are based in Houston, as is the drilling unit of Schlumberger, which is based in Paris. Weatherford, though now incorporated in Switzerland, was founded in Texas and still has big operations there.

    Rigging the Market:

    Four big firms dominate the business of managing geological data,
    digging wells, building rigs, handling infrastructure and developing
    the technology needed for large projects…

    Mr Crandell reckons profits for the big four could nearly double over
    the next couple of years, as they wring oil and gas out of ever-more
    inaccessible places.

    http://www.economist.com/node/18867869

     

  • Fredlinskip

       Before War we were all politely informed that Sadaam had plotted with Al Qaeda, attempted to obtain materials for nuclear weapons, had aluminum tubes for uranium enrichment, “mobile chemical factories”, and other like fabrications.
        Iraq was given ultimatum to surrender the WMD’s they didn’ possess or the grown-ups in America were going to attack.
        So we bombed bejesus out of them and occupied their country. We had been told that like when France was liberated in WWII, Iraqis would come out and spread roses at our troops feet.
        Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis died, some of them bad guys, some of them imagining they were defending their country, but most of them “collateral damage”. And Rumsfeld & Co just couldn’t understand why these folks seemed so PO’ed at us- Maybe harsher interrogation techniques might wring the truth out of them.

       2004 W was reelected, largely because Dems were ‘too wimpy’ when it came to “War on Terror”. All domestic issues were put on back burner, “Deficits don’t matter”, quipped Cheney. The $’s spent on “W on T” was state secret. No-bid contracts and scandals abounded, but somehow press and America loooked other way because “war must go on” and “if you’s ain’t with us you’s again’ us.”

       Meanwhile W & Co looked other way while corporate America essentially raped America’s financial system.

      ’08 Obama rides to rescue- many voting for him because they tired of the War and of the hypocrisy.
       It seemed as if Obama may have struck some kind of deal with Hillary- she was tired of “y’all calling Dems wimpy- I’ll show y’all we can extend unecessary War with the best of ‘em”- and so occupation wore on.

        It sorta seems that Al-Qaeda-type groups, who tend to view conflict in terms of centuries not election cycles, couldn’t have asked for much more. We did more dmage to our way of life through our brazen stupidity than they could have ever hoped do to us.

    Did we learn anything?
       

    • LearningCurve

      We learned not to trust our government or corporations when they say, ‘we know what’s best’.

      We learned not to put faith in our elected or military leaders when they tell us, ‘they have our best interest at heart’.

      We learned that determining ‘right and wrong’ depends on what side of the profit stream you are on.

      We learned that training small squads of ‘freedom fighters’ to detour a ‘manufactured enemy’ decades ago can come back and bite you in the ass.

      We learned that ‘intelligence agencies’ will stop at nothing to promote their elite, geopolitical, corporatist agenda.

      We learned that other nations and people ‘don’t hate us for our freedoms’, but hate us because of our ‘foreign policy’.

      We learned that patriotism can incite nationalism leading to fascism.

      We learned that most politicians will say and do anything they are told to.

      We learned that much of what we have learned is a fiction, a lie, a myth, a convenient story to propel situational circumstances.

      We learned it all the hard way, but we learned a lot.

       

      • Fredlinskip

        It’s heartening someone learned something.

        If our media outlets and election rhetoric are an indication, it doesn’t seem as if America learned all that much.

    • William

      Yes, Not to pass dumb bills like the Iraq Liberation Act.

    • Gregg

      No one said Iraq was involved with 9/11, Hussein DID have 500 tons of yellow cake and he DID have chemical weapons he used on his own people.

      Just setting the record straight on your first paragraph (that’s as far as I got).

      • Modavations

        General,don’t forget to tell the kiddies that 2 tons were partially enriched.We dismantalled the plant after the 1st war,and Saddams main physicist ,wrote, “Nukes in my Garden(?)”,about how he’d buried recipes and Blue prints at his home.Mr.Wilson and Ms.Plame,your comments please

        • Gregg

          And just exactly what did Sandy Berger shove down his pants?

      • RecordStraight

        That’s why they kept sending weapons inspectors into Iraq – they couldn’t believe they couldn’t find anything – they had receipts.

        • Gregg

          Hussein booted out the inspectors in ’98.

          • YouAreWrong

            The UN weapons inspectors were never booted out in 1998.

            Timeline: Iraq weapons inspections
            http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2167933.stm

            Your logic and memory are fuzzy.  

          • ReadYourOwnLink

            16 December 1998: The UN orders weapons inspectors out of the country after Unscom chief Richard Butler issued a report saying the Iraqis were still refusing to co-operate. US air strikes on Iraq begin hours later.
            Never to return.

          • FuzzyLogic

            You said, “Hussein booted out the inspectors in ’98″.

            That’s completely different than the UN pulling out weapons inspectors before US began bombing.

            The US rejected future UN weapons inspector deals although Hans Blix tried to tender offers.

          • Gregg

            They were pulled out because Hussein would not co-operate. What’s that?

          • Drewjkelly

            Just to make sure I understand you. The conversation with Fuzzy L started with you saying Hussein booted the inspectors out “never to return” and ended with you admitting that they were pulled out just before American bombing began. Wans’t it a little late for them to inspect after the War started?
                And Then you change the subject to what?- To Sadaam not turning over the WMD’s he didn’t have? 

          • Gregg

            Not exactly, I said they were booted out. Fuzzy says they were pulled out after Hussein told them to pound sand. It’s a distinction without a difference. I also pointed out they never returned.

          • Fredlinskip

             Distinction without a difference.
                It sounds like your reasoning is follows along the lines of your buddy Rumsfeld:
             
              “There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don’t know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don’t know we don’t know.”

          • Gregg

            Rumsfeld’s brilliant quote aside, the inspectors were forbidden to do their job because Hussein would not cooperate. If you think my use of the term “booted” out was not accurate, how about “forced to leave”?

          • Fredlinskip

            Rumsfeld’s statement brilliant?
            Seems his statement would be more accurate had he said, “there’s things I don’t know I don’t know. There’s things I know but damn well ain’t gonna let America know. And as far as about interrogation and War, it’s obvious I don’t know a helluva lot.”

            Your thread concerning inspectors seemed to start out saying inspectors were kicked out- so we attacked.
            And you ended saying “well actually we pulled them out before they got bombed on”.
            See the difference?

            As far as W administration’s quotes suggesting ties between Iraq and Al Qaeda, I honestly don’t have time right now, but before this thread disappears into oblivion I’ll make the effort for you.

            Later

          • Gregg

            RecordStraight wrote: “That’s why they kept sending weapons inspectors into Iraq – they
            couldn’t believe they couldn’t find anything – they had receipts.” I pointed out the inspectors were booted out in 1998, implying his time line was off in regards to Bush lying us into war. YouAreWrong (same person) then gave evidence to prove my point. I cited it. If you don’t like my use of “booted out” that’s fine but it’s accurate. I never said, nor meant to imply, we attacked because the inspectors were booted out. However, it is true. The reason I made no such implication was because the issue was Bush.

            It was Clinton who bombed Iraq (Desert Fox) and it just happened to be the day impeachment hearings were to begin. His trigger finger was itchy and he had only months earlier (August) bombed an aspirin factory in Sudan and a camel in Afghanistan. That happened on the day Monica Lewinski testified. Desert Fox was described by the NYT as “‘by far the largest
            military action in Iraq since the end of the Gulf War in 1991.” At that time Democrats had no problem with the unilateral action.

             http://www.nytimes.com/1998/12/17/world/attack-iraq-overview-impeachment-vote-house-delayed-clinton-launches-iraq-air.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

          • Fredlinskip

            Clinton’s air strikes were on a bit of a different scale than a 10 year War…. NO!!?

            And of of course it’s well known that Bush and Clinton’s Counterterrorism Czar made extensive attempts to bring to the attention of W administration the need to aggressively confront Al qaeda. I believe this was when W said “he was tired of swatting flies”.  

            Perhaps one thing that prevented W from launching air strikes on Al Qaeda was hid disdain for continuing any kind of policy that Clinton did.  

          • Gregg

            You’ve jumped the shark, changed the subject and avoided the issue. I’m done.

          • Hidan

            Dude you gotta check this out,

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30x8VTCaOws

            Greg we found a match.

            Rumsfeld

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx0Iucug61M

          • Gregg

            That man is a patriot and a genius. Brilliant!

      • Fredlinskip

        Among the many fabrications W & Co created to justify Iraq invasion, Cheney in particular. on many occasions referenced fictional links between Iraq and Al Qaeda.
            Believe that polls at one point showed 70% of Americans linked 9/11 with Iraq. That wasn’t by accident.
           You who pray at alter of Fox “News” should be aware of this.

        • Gregg

          Find me a quote. I am very familiar with the lie. Any quotes you will find connect Iraq with terrorist not 9/11. The press made that leap. Iraq was a State sponsor of terrorist for many years. Bush said many times there were no ties to 9/11 but the theory is he is such a great orator he said one thing and people inferred the opposite. The press was hell bent on saying Bush/Cheney made the connection. They didn’t. It would have been stupid as hell not to suspect Iraq in the early days but the accusation was never made. Here’s Cheney:

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWdq7hg4dLU

          So, find me that quote and I’ll apologize but if you can’t (you can’t) realize you have been duped. The misinformation by the left wing media is a big problem. The public is so easily misled by the MSM.

          • FuzzyMemory

            In a half-hour speech clearly aimed at his Democratic critics, Mr. Bush said that those who argued that the affiliated group, called Al Qaeda in Iraq or AQI, was a local group with local objectives, and not a serious threat to Americans at home, were seriously misinformed.

            “It’s hard to argue that Al Qaeda in Iraq is separate from bin Laden’s Al Qaeda when the leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq took an oath of allegiance to Osama bin Laden,” Mr. Bush said, referring to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a leader of the affiliated group in Iraq who was killed last year.

            Mr. Bush called the two similarly named groups “an alliance of killers,” and said, “No enemy is more ruthless in Iraq than Al Qaeda.”

            http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/24/washington/24cnd-prexy.html

          • Gregg

            Some questions: Where is the claim of ties to 9/11? What did Bush say that wasn’t true? What does a speech in 2007 have to do with Bush misleading us into war in 2003? What’s it like to be so blindingly partisan?

            BTW, your chameleon monikers are cute but not as cute as you think.

          • FuzzyReasoning

            “Al Qaeda is in Iraq and they’re there for a reason,” Bush said. “Surrendering the future of Iraq for al Qaeda would be a disaster to our country.”

             The president said “al Qaeda’s top commander in Iraq” issued an audio statement saying “that he will not rest until he has attacked our nation’s capital.”

            Ahead of the speech, a White House official said Bush would reveal “newly declassified information” about the links between al Qaeda and al Qaeda in Iraq.

            “I presented intelligence that clearly establishes this connection,” said Bush. “The facts are that al Qaeda terrorists killed Americans on 9/11, they’re fighting us in Iraq and across the world, and they’re plotting to kill Americans here at home again.”

            http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/07/24/bush/index.html?iref=newssearch

          • Gregg

            Truer words have never been spoken. Apples and oranges. You libs need to learn nuance. It’s the same speech I already responded to below… four years after the fact. Let me get this straight: Bush lied us into war 4 years after we went to war”. Cool.

          • Nonsequiturs

            You have your head up your Iraq.

          • FuzzyExcuses

            Cheney’s continued assertions are stronger than a statement made earlier this year by Secretary of State Colin L. Powell, who said ”I have not seen smoking gun, concrete evidence about the connection,” while adding that ”the possibility of such connections did exist.”

            Cheney’s statement comes amid questions about whether the Bush administration used faulty or misleading intelligence in saying that Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, which was a justification for Bush’s decision to go to war against Iraq.

            In recent weeks, Powell has apologized for at least two lapses regarding information about Iraq and terrorism. In a recent appearance NBC-TV’s ”Meet The Press,” Powell said that he had relied on faulty intelligence when he told the United Nations in 2003 that Iraq had biological weapons labs. ”It turned out that the sourcing was inaccurate and wrong and in some cases, deliberately misleading,” Powell said.

            Separately, Powell on Sunday said that a State Department report was mistaken in saying that terrorism events had dropped in the past three years. Blaming faulty statistics, Powell said the report was ”very embarrassing.”

            http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2004/06/16/bush_backs_cheney_on_assertion_linking_hussein_al_qaeda/

          • nj

            Greggg is either clueless or lying.

            For years, Cheney/Bush conflated Iraq and 9/11.

            http://open.salon.com/blog/je_robertson/2009/06/02/cheney_admits_to_lying_about_iraq-911_connection_sort_of

          • Gregg

            No. If you want to say Cheney made a classified argument to select Congressmen then that is a far cry from saying he lied to the people. Just look at all the denials of the tie in all the links you and fuzzball have provided.

          • Fredlinskip

               So your contention is that while Cheney and Bush deliberately mislead America about connections between Al Qaeda and Iraq on numerious occassions in order to justify invasion, they were never able to fabricate anything that directly tied Iraq directly to 9/11?
              
            I might can concede that.

               And then you conclude that the media- especially the likes of Rupert’s Fox “News” Wall Street Journal, and Rush Bimbo- (with the help of right-wing think tanks); worked relentlessly to distort the truth (as are their mission statements)- enough to convince majority of Americans that Iraq had something to do with 9/11. And they did this so well that even years after War started, majority of Americans STILL believed this was so.  

              W administration general arrogance, stupidity, and for War profiterring motives lead the “easily mislead” public into a tremendously costly (on myriad of levels) unecessary War.
             
            I guess we’re on the same wavelength. No?

          • Gregg

            And still you can’t find a single quote to back your “numerous” claim. The dumbing down of the public is a problem.

          • Fredlinskip

                I can provide quotes by W & Co atempting to establish non-existant links between Al Qaeda and Iraq-  I need get back to work, but will do so later.
                I was under apparrently mistaken impression it was the Iraq to 9/11 link you took issue with. 

  • Pingback: Listen: Former US Ambassador to Iraq Christopher Hill ’74 on Troop Withdrawal (NPR) « Bowdoin Daily Sun

  • Iraqgate

    Let’s not forget how this whole thing got started -”Iraqgate”:

    After one dictator was overthrown in Iran, we (and other countries – like Germany, Italy) propped up another dictator in Iraq with arms, chemical weapons and know-how. 

    “Officers say U.S. aided Iraq despite the use of gas”. Quoting anonymous US “senior military officers”, the NYT “revealed” that in the 1980s, the administration of US President Ronald Reagan covertly provided “critical battle planning assistance at a time when American intelligence knew that Iraqi commanders would employ chemical weapons in waging the decisive battles of the Iran-Iraq war”…

    One of the more comprehensive and damning accounts of Iraqgate was written by Douglas Frantz and Murray Waas and published in the February 23, 1992, Los Angeles Times. Headlined, “Bush secret effort helped Iraq build its war machine”, the article reported that “classified documents obtained by the LA Times show … a long-secret pattern of personal efforts by [George Bush senior]–both as president and vice president–to support and placate the Iraqi dictator.”

    According to William Blum, writing in the August 1998 issue of the Progressive, Sam Gejdenson, chairperson of a Congressional subcommittee investigating US exports to Iraq, disclosed that from 1985 until 1990 “the US government approved 771 licenses [only 39 were rejected] for the export to Iraq of $1.5 billion worth of biological agents and high-tech equipment with military application …

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2004/06/17/how-reagan-armed-saddam-with-chemical-weapons/

  • Fredlinskip

    Gregg, Some quotes:On Dec. 9, 2001, Cheney sought to pre-justify the future war by linking Saddam Hussein to 9/11 ringleader Mohamed Atta, “It’s been pretty well confirmed that he (Atta) did go to Prague and he did meet with a senior official of the Iraqi intelligence service in Czechoslovakia last April, several months before the attack”  Rice, 2002: “There clearly are contacts between al-Qaeda and Iraq that can be documented; there clearly is testimony that some of the contacts have been important contacts and that there’s a relationship here” “We know that Iraq and al-Qaeda have had high-level contacts that go back a decade” and “we’ve learned that Iraq has trained al-Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases.”Bush, State of the Union adress, 2003 Jan. 28: ” Evidence from intelligence sources, secret communications, and statements by people now in custody reveal that Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of al-Qaeda.” Bush 2003: “Senior members of Iraqi intelligence and al-Qaeda have met at least eight times since the early 1990s. Iraq has sent bomb-making and document forgery experts to work with al-Qaeda” and “Iraq has also provided al-Qaeda with chemical and biological weapons training.” 2003, Cheney asserted that Iraq had been “the geographic base of the terrorists who have had us under assault now for many years, but most especially on 9/11,” Bush, 2003 radio address “Iraq has sent bombmaking and document forgery experts to work with al Qaeda. Iraq has also provided al Qaeda with chemical and biological weapons training. And an al Qaeda operative was sent to Iraq several times in the late 1990s for help in acquiring poisons and gases. We also know that Iraq is harboring a terrorist network headed by a senior al Qaeda terrorist planner. This network runs a poison and explosive training camp in northeast Iraq, and many of its leaders are known to be in Baghdad.” 2004. Bush- “The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between Iraq and Saddam and al Qaeda: because there was a relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda,” . “There’s numerous contacts between the two,” reasserting claims that Saddam “had long-established ties with al Qaeda.”Later

    • Gregg

      All of that is true. Do you deny any of it? The fact remains, Bush (and Cheney) always maintained Iraq was not involved with 9/11. Iraq’s terrorists ties were well documented. There was no need to trump anything up with 17 violated UN resolutions involving human rights abuses, WMD, nuclear ambitions, assassination attempts, inspectors being booted out, our jets being shot at and swindling the world. All of that from a sworn enemy was not acceptable in a post 9/11 world. It is that last point that causes the confusion.

    • Gregg
  • Ronlentjes

    A simple message. Yet a most powerful message.

    You can’t hide the truth.
    You can condemn those who break the news about Iraq and all your wars.
    But you can’t hide the truth.

    You condemn a member of society for killing just one citizen.
    Yet you uphold the killing of many killed in another country by your own.
    And then you condemn a member of society for displaying this killing.

    I say if there has to be any secret.
    Then you must not be to be trusted by anyone.
    Let alone you not trusting anyone.
    Why have you need of any secrets – if you treat all nations as friends.
    Why instead you smile with one face and kill with the other face in deceit.

    I hear you when you travel outside your country.
    Oh it is so dangerous everywhere outside my country.
    But why? What are you so scared of? Or have you had a hand in this fear?
    It can only go worse. To force your hand upon nations. To force your terms.
    No one trusts you anymore. Now what are you going to do?
    Duck and cover? Hide in your bunkers? Stay underground?

    You throw arrows. Then arrows return.
    You throw grenades. Then grenades return.
    You throw atom bombs. Then atom bombs return.
    You mist the sky with chemtrails. Then chemtrail return.
    You blast the sky with HAARPoons. Then HAARPoons return.
    When are you going to stop?

    You watch TV in horror. And condemn the Columbine Murders.
    But what example have you shown. To kill and kill millions abroad?
    How do you really expect your children to respond?
    No words of preaching match killing by example!

    We don’t need WikiLeaks to know what was going on.
    You haven’t learned that all spirits have their own internet -
    well before we ever inhabited this planet.
    Those not so tuned are still alerted. But in ways subliminal.
    The dread of the killings. The hands and feet flown in the air.
    The blood gushing out? Have you lost your humanity?
    The screams into global consciousness are deafening.
    You think we don’t know?

    Why do you think our anger soars and soars.
    We become sick. The whole world suffers because of these acts.
    We loose faith in our leaders. For they are not leaders.
    They are but bullies, planting their evil desires into foreign nations.
    Destroying the very desire of others. To have peace and harmony in their
    own selected ways. Actually you are leaders. Leaders to the dark path.

    So now you want to HAARP the land. And destroy all. And yet you
    think this all a big game. A tidy secret .Nothing is secret. Nothing at all.
    So keep that smiling, selling, salesman’s smile. Treating the worlds as
    some insignificant meal for your taking and manipulating.

    You think you have power. But each time you FORCE your desire upon other’s
    desires, you actually loose power. You are weak and weaker and sleazier.
    You are but the serpent. Condemned to eat the heavy metal dirt you lay
    behind. You are blind. And hardly knowing, just at the flick of a switch
    you could become powerful. But you cannot see.

    Though I do urge you. To come out of the darkness. Into the light.
    To see all the pain you have forced upon us. To let go of your greedy
    agendas. Salt without salt. You take away the light of all nations.
    You falsify truths. You ban the good and force the bad. All in the name
    of $$PROFIT$$ and $$POWER$$.

    You take away your citizen jobs to create
    your own controlled $$PROFIT$$. You take away the right of health even to
    your own kind. You take away INCANDESCENT lights. You take away HEALTH CARE.
    You damage the crops. You say yeah to Monsanto. You say yeah to Philips and
    Osram and GE. You say neah to comfort. You say neah to common sense.
    You lie about climate change. You force CFL in our faces. You lie about the
    future. You take away our pride.

    You cause drought and you cause floods. And you help build the
    Desert Tesla Serpent. You hide your intent. Yet we know.

    We are spirits in temporary bodies. With powers beyond your imagination.
    We watch. We have a billion eyes.

    We only ask. When are you going to open your eyes?

    Save America. Save Australia. Save the world. Stop your greedy lies.

    Are you going to come out of the darkness?
    Or are you too afraid.
    To lift the lids of your eyes.
    To see the truth.

    Join us. In peace.

    Ron Lentjes.

ONPOINT
TODAY
Aug 21, 2014
In this November 2012, file photo, posted on the website freejamesfoley.org, shows American journalist James Foley while covering the civil war in Aleppo, Syria. In a horrifying act of revenge for U.S. airstrikes in northern Iraq, militants with the Islamic State extremist group have beheaded Foley — and are threatening to kill another hostage, U.S. officials say. (AP)

An American is beheaded. We’ll look at the ferocity of ISIS, and what to do about it.

Aug 21, 2014
Jen Joyce, a community manager for the Uber rideshare service, works on a laptop before a meeting of the Seattle City Council, Monday, March 17, 2014, at City Hall in Seattle. (AP)

We’ll look at workers trying to live and make a living in the age of TaskRabbit and computer-driven work schedules.

RECENT
SHOWS
Aug 20, 2014
In this Oct. 21, 2013 file photo, a monarch butterfly lands on a confetti lantana plant in San Antonio. A half-century ago Monarch butterflies, tired, hungry and bursting to lay eggs, found plenty of nourishment flying across Texas. Native white-flowering balls of antelope milkweed covered grasslands, growing alongside nectar-filled wildflowers. But now, these orange-and-black winged butterflies find mostly buildings, manicured lawns and toxic, pesticide-filled plants. (AP)

This year’s monarch butterfly migration is the smallest ever recorded. We’ll ask why. It’s a big story. Plus: how climate change is creating new hybridized species.

 
Aug 20, 2014
A man holds his hands up in the street after a standoff with police Monday, Aug. 18, 2014, during a protest for Michael Brown, who was killed by a police officer Aug. 9 in Ferguson, Mo. (AP)

A deep read on Ferguson, Missouri and what we’re seeing about race, class, hope and fear in America.

On Point Blog
On Point Blog
Your (Weird? Wonderful? Wacky?) Roommate Stories
Tuesday, Aug 19, 2014

We asked, and you delivered: some of the best roommate stories from across our many listener input channels.

More »
1 Comment
 
Our Week In The Web (August 15, 2014)
Friday, Aug 15, 2014

On Pinterest, Thomas the Tank Engine and surprising population trends from around the country. Also, words on why we respond to your words, tweets and Facebook posts.

More »
Comment
 
Nickel Creek Plays Three Songs LIVE For On Point
Wednesday, Aug 13, 2014

Nickel Creek shares three live (well, mostly) tracks from their interview with On Point Radio.

More »
Comment