90.9 WBUR - Boston's NPR news station
Top Stories:
Week In The News: Gadhafi Dead, GOP Debates, Animals In Ohio

Moammar Gadhafi is dead. The GOP gloves come off in Las Vegas. Wild animal uproar in Ohio. Our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

Revolutionary fighters celebrate the capture of Sirte, Libya, Thursday, Oct. 20, 2011. Moammar Gadhafi was killed Thursday when revolutionary forces overwhelmed his hometown, Sirte, the last major bastion of resistance two months after the regime fell. Amid the fighting, a NATO airstrike blasted a fleeing convoy that fighters said was carrying Gadhafi. (AP)

Revolutionary fighters celebrate the capture of Sirte, Libya, Thursday, Oct. 20, 2011. Moammar Gadhafi was killed Thursday when revolutionary forces overwhelmed his hometown, Sirte, the last major bastion of resistance two months after the regime fell. Amid the fighting, a NATO airstrike blasted a fleeing convoy that fighters said was carrying Gadhafi. (AP)

Muammar Qaddafi is dead and gone this week, at the end of a hard uprising and NATO intervention. A tyrant down.

In Las Vegas, hard words and strained tempers in a GOP debate. In Pakistan, a tough warning from Hillary Clinton. In the US Senate, Republicans say no to jobs money for teachers and police. Greeks riot. Israelis and Palestinians celebrate a prisoner exchange for Gilad Shalit.

An Indy racing driver dies in flames. And in Zanesville, Ohio a tragic menagerie on the loose and many killed.

This hour On Point: our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

-Tom Ashbrook


Ben Smith, senior political reporter for Politico.

Susan Glasser, editor in chief of Foreign Policy magazine.

Jack Beatty, On Point news analyst.

From Tom’s Reading List

Politico “After months of diversions — sideshow candidates, Hamlet acts and straw polls — Tuesday night’s sizzling Republican presidential showdown boiled the nomination fight down to its essentials: a deeply personal, ideological and smashmouth contest between two rivals with almost nothing in common.”

Foreign Policy “Conservative agitator Pat Buchanan’s new book says America might not survive until 2025. “The Suicide of a Superpower,” it’s called. Even the less alarmist are suddenly sounding a lot like him as economists now predict that China may surpass the United States as the world’s largest economy a lot sooner than we thought, and learned conferences are convened to deal with what Fareed Zakaria memorably dubbed “the post-American world.”

Al Jazeera “Muammar Gaddafi has been killed after National Transitional Council fighters overran loyalist defences in Sirte, the toppled Libyan leader’s hometown and final stronghold.”

Apparently Wounded Muammar Gadhafi After His Capture (Warning: Graphic Footage)
Please follow our community rules when engaging in comment discussion on this site.
  • Winston Smith

    Despite the protest of the use of unmanned drones by radical left wing ACLU-liberal types (who probably would have tried to get Bin Laden off on a legal technicality had he ever been tried in the U.S.), it looks like the drones have operated very effectively in tracking down yet another terrorist monster, Khadaffi.  This is one policy that President Obama has right!

    • Usuk

      I’m very liberal and very in favor of the use of drones and such.
      Guess that blows your knee-jerk attitude.
      I also own lots of guns. I’m so liberal that I think machine guns should be legal for everyone. I’m so liberal that if you tell what to do and what not to do, I might spread your blood liberally over the sidewalk.

      • JJJimmanyC

        Yeh! Well I’m so fracking liberal that a rave looks like a funeral and I haven’t been normal since ninteen sixty four. So there!

        • ClarkDaClerk23

          Yeh, well I’m so fracking liberal that when your wife screamed harder I said “Ok!”

          • SoWhaddaYa

            Yeh. . . yeh? Well I’m so fracking liberal that I think you should do what ever the hell you want and go away or stay what every you want to do as long as you don’t hurt anyone unless they want to be hurt and it’s organic and all.

          • JanetMayFrisbee

            He stood there in the doorway, weeping like a little girl.  I had destroyed him and I didn’t care, and all he could say is, “If you leave me can I come along?”

          • Denny66


          • WarBuddha

            Watch the infringement pal. . . .

          • JulieArgenti3

            I’m so liberal that I don’t want no edge Buddha?

            And I always end a statement with a question mark. Sometimes?

          • WarBuddha

            That makes no sense.

          • JulieArgenti3

            I meant edgy?

          • WarBuddha

            Frack you and may peace be upon you — in other words.

    • Chris B

      Why would anyone use the name of a character who begged to have his girl friends face eaten by rats as a screen name?  Granted, it certainly does reflect the conservative, “me first”, mindset.

      • http://mergelefttoday.blogspot.com Joshua Hendrickson

        I’ve got the explanation for born-again Christian Winston Smith’s pseudonym:  he loves Big Brother.

        • Gregg

          Might be his name.

  • Anonymous

    Has the world ever seen a Nobel Piece Prize winner go on to kill as many people as our own President Obama?

    Gaddafi even called Obama a friend in early 2010!

    • http://www.richardsnotes.org Richard

      Brandstad: We rarely agree but I must say that it does seem rather odd that a Nobel Peace prize winner would support violently overthrowing even a brutal dictator.

      And, while I’m at it, I find it disgusting that we celebrate what that mob did to this man.

    • TFRX

      If that scares you, don’t look up the words McCain had for Gadafi post-election.

  • Anonymous

    ‘Misery Index’ Rises to Highest Since 1983…

    An unofficial gauge of human misery in the United States rose last month to a 28-year high as Americans struggled with rising inflation and high unemployment.

    The misery index — which is simply the sum of the country’s inflation and unemployment rates — rose to 13.0, pushed up by higher price data the government reported on Wednesday.The data underscores the extent that Americans continue to suffer even two years after a deep recession ended, with a weak economic recovery imperiling President Barack Obama’s hopes of winning reelection next year.By: Reuters

    • TFRX

      So let’s elect someone who promises everything that hasn’t worked since 2001.

  • Anonymous

    Obama Admin Gave Half-Billion-Dollar Loan to Gore-Connected Electric Car Company to Build Cars in… Finland?

    I know it is no surprise, but another major Obama fundraser got a “Green Energy” loan like Solyndra to create Green Jobs in FINLAND! 

    Why must Obama promote foreign jobs!

    • TFRX

      Yeah, for anyone not taking someone’s word for it:

      “Henrik Fisker said the U.S. money so far has
      been spent on engineering and design work that stayed in the U.S., not on the
      500 manufacturing jobs that went to a rural Finnish firm, Valmet Automotive.

      While he has hired marketing, design and
      engineering teams in the U.S., the auto plant jobs in Wilmington right now
      number about 100.

      Fisker said he
      apprised the Department of Energy of his decision to assemble the high-priced
      Karma in Finland after he could not find an American facility that could handle
      the work. They signed off, he said, so long as he did not spend the federal
      loan money in Finland — something he says the company has taken care to avoid.”http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/car-company-us-loan-builds-cars-finland/story?id=14770875&singlePage=true

  • ConstenceSeriouslyNot

    There is OWS and the issues it addresses,

    that is the news,

    Everything else is distraction and the trail of red herrings.

    Every other issue is just an insignificant tributary of the main issue,
    and the main issue is the subversion of our republic by persons who we
    had entrusted with the integrity of a system that had delivered a good
    life to most, who turned out to be thieves that worked very hard behind
    the scenes like little tireless vermin, just fevered with the joy of
    spreading their corruption and the wealth it brought them.  Corrupt our
    body politic in way that just a few short decades ago would have been
    near unthinkable, with unrecorded unlimited political and judicial
    contributions so that an industry of corruption will be permanently
    installed and the brave new world is upon us.  Unrepentant, unabashed
    thieves, who undermined the very foundations of what makes America
    unique and uniquely viable, and still THE place that people flee from
    injustice and tyranny.

     Not only this but in the process they found it necessary to brain wash
    the public so that ideas that would have been scandalous — now were
    just “business as usual” –  giving us the most jaded generation of
    individuals to ever suck air from the atmosphere — the ME generation,
    the generation who now all of a sudden are enamored by libertarian
    ideas, and don’t care if ss goes bye bye (until they get hit by a drunk
    and want the gov to buy the a van that allows them to drive again from
    their wheel chair.) It’s a political industry and every iota of it is
    corrupt, even the legal parts, it has undermined our traditions of
    fairness and equality before the law and turned them into jokes that are
    laughed up the sleeves of a jaded over-class — among themselves.

    And the unsettled come back from a hard far-away

    and join the flock of the fleeced.

    Historically the anybodies who are anybody always throw their best soirees

    on the night before the dawn of the consequences.

    So crash one if you can. But watch out because the sycophants are toxic.
    Don’t ever let one touch you in any way, they are more infectious than
    either a snarky snob or an effete aesthete.

    Don’t let this happen to you.

    Look before you think

    not after

    and don’t believe

    anything you come up with.

    I’ll get back to you.

    Yes Virginia we are not talking what we are talking about.

    . . . apparently.   

    • Ellen Dibble

      Check out this site:  http://en.m4.cn/2011/10/17/occupy-wall-street-a-trojan-horse-for-nazi-revival/.
      COTO report has been sending things along the lines of what if OWS is coopted the way the Tea Party was, more or less bought out, the way large businesses buy out their competitors to remain sort of monopolistic, in this case politically monopolistic.  http://coto2.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/occupy-wall-street-a-trojan-horse-for-nazi-revival/  (that refers to the same thing, but has the whole site).  I’ll quote:   “Despite appearances of free-for-all equality at Occupy Wall Street protests, a clandestine rightist network – allied with British intelligence agents and a far-right Swedish tycoon – secretly controls the agenda.”  (Yoichi Shimatsu)   Fodder for creative writing.  Which, by the way, see occupy writers dot com (I don’t want too many links in the post) for a mile long list of published author supporters, and some writing, to kick-start an expansive cultural understanding of the movement. 

  • http://twitter.com/tati_per Tatiana P

    Why so many pictures of Qaddafi’s bloody face? Do we really need that to believe he died? If so, then what does that imply about Bin Laden?

    • Gregg

      I think the difference is our military were the only ones to have pictures of Bin Laden’s fate. We have no control over the Gadhafi video. I don’t need to watch it.

  • Yar

    Lions, and tigers, and Bears, oh my. 
    One would assume that anybody who would keep exotic animals in cages is crazy.  If their owner is crazy, most likely the animals are being not properly cared for and may be crazy as well.  Putting the animals down, while sad, was a rational approach to dealing with the situation. The libertarian view, that what you do on your own property, doesn’t work in the world of crazy.  The trouble is, a lot of libertarians are crazy as well.  Self regulation doesn’t seem to work very well, when it comes to business, politics, or even our diet.  We need the community to set some a standard for behavior.  

    Gaddafi was crazy, as are many in our current crop of presidential contenders.  We can’t look to a dictator, no matter how benevolent, to relieve us of our civic duties. 
    The idea that we can cut taxes, balance the budget, deregulate business, while promoting economic growth, is crazy.
    Lions, and tigers, and bears?  
    Oh my!

    • Ellen Dibble

      I think I heard Bachmann saying in the Nevada debate that she would put an end to the United Nations.  And maybe a few other things.  We need to be a world despot by force, not by collaboration, something like that.  Meanwhile, we are thinking that financially propping up Middle East dictators in the interests of maintaining “stability” in an oil-rich region seems to have merely provoked Islamist extremism and anti-American jihad.
         So where are the crazy Republican ideas (as spoken by candidates) and/or actions (votes in Congress against huge polling results showing these votes represent almost nobody) — where is this coming from?  Are they crazy?  Or crazy like Hamlet, when the wind is from the northwest, however he phrased it.  If you are speaking what all your advisers and all your financiers are telling you is correct, will “work,” and so forth, then it is no more crazy than reciting the Nicene creed.  Within the appropriate venue and for certain purposes, the ideas can be said — can be chanted.  We cross ourselves, bend a knee, and move on.  

  • Ed

    We’ve killed so many of the next generation in abortion – how can we survive as time goes by? Our hope is to stop now.

    • CORY


      It is Okay to take a friday off now and then if you have nothing new to say.

      • TheOther

        I agree with Ed about the abortion thing (probably the only thing we agree on.)  It doesn’t really bother me as much as it seems to torture him, but maybe it should.  I don’t think that I have the answer as to what to do, but to me a late term abortion is murder.  An early one isn’t good either but if it’s really early, like with a pill, I don’t think it is nearly on the same level of evil.  That’s how I feel about it now.  I felt differently before I read that post that someone made here about remembering being in the womb before they were born.  I had never thought about it before, but for some reason I believed them, and I believe it is possible that a fetus is conscious in a non verbal non differentiated way.
        Ed is the speaker for the unborn dead.
        Oxymoronic but true.

        • Anonymous

          No one has memories of being in the womb.

          • PaxtonQuigley3

            It would be more accurate for you to have written.
            “My limited worldview does not allow for phenomenon that are beyond the quite limited scope of what I laughingly refer to as my awaeness of such possibilities.”

            Because I can tell you from first hand  experience that you are wrong.

            How arrogant to say nobody can do something that you find impossible. Arrogant and stupid, and wrong.

          • Anonymous

            Having memories of being in the womb is nonsense. 
            It would not have been more accurate for me to have written that as I can spell awareness and would not have written “phenomenon that are.” 

    • Anonymous

      Didn’t the Pope do anything this week?  At least make an effort to be current.  Romney was his usual weasel self on this issue this week: 

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Priests need MORE molesting and abuse victims???

  • Drew You Too

    The comments below are the reasons the radio will stay off today, and also the reason I am commenting before the show has even aired. Maybe I’ll return tomorrow, but only if the show is actually On Point. Have a good day everyone.

    • http://www.richardsnotes.org Richard

      Define “below.” DISQUS allows one to many different sort orders:

      oldest first
      newest first
      best rating
      popular now

      We’re all looking at “below” in a different way.

      Maybe you should be more specific about the comments you dislike.

      • Drew You Too

        What difference does it make if I disliked any of the comments (which I didn’t say at all)? It doesn’t. The statement was not directed toward any one comment, just that I generally don’t see the productiveness of any of them. That is my opinion, please don’t take offense. If any do take offense when there was none intended there is little I can do about that.

        And I suppose that “oldest” would be the obvious choice.

        • Anonymous

          The first comment on the page & following replies make no sense to me whatsoever :(

        • http://www.richardsnotes.org Richard

          I’m not taking offense that you don’t like any of the comments, just that when you use the term “below” you need to be aware that it will allow your comment to be interpreted differently by each of us Some folks in this thread don’t use “oldest” as their default sort.

          I’m attempting to educate you about how this DISQUS comment system works, not argue with you about your dislike of specific comments.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            Oldest first is the obvious format–chronological order, showing the succession of responses.

          • http://www.richardsnotes.org Richard

            You and I may sort the list that way but to assume others do when there is a choice is a mistake. The DISQUS UI allows four different sorts and sometimes, at least on my browser, doesn’t remember my last choice. So, it’s useful to be aware that others may not be seeing what you are.

    • Ellen Dibble

      How will you know if the show is actually On Point if you don’t listen?  You mean you’re going to listen to the podcast after determining from our comments whether it’s on point or not?  Good luck with that.  By the way, Saturday there will not be a new show.

      • Drew You Too

        Glad I stopped back through since what I said obviously requires clarification. No I won’t be listening to the podcast, I already had my fill of these stories from NPR and various other sources during the course of the week. When I said “Maybe I’ll return tomorrow” it was figuratively speaking. I am quite aware that it’s Friday.

      • http://www.richardsnotes.org Richard

        Ellen: While I agree with your point about commenting without listening to the show, you must admit that the onPoint comment threads have a life of their own, many times divorced from the content of the show. None of us have heard the show yet yet here we are, commenting about what we think the show might be about and about other comments, etc.

        I don’t have a problem with that… but it’s not just true for Drew, it’s true for you and me too.

        • Ellen Dibble

          I think he was generalizing from a set of posts which I know to skim over.  I have an idea which ones are most interesting to me.  But Drew points out he has heard enough about these things from NPR all week.  Fine.  I sometimes skip Fridays for the same reason.  I happen to have free “ears” — I’m trying to edit something — so I’m happy to be here.

  • Ellen Dibble

    I hear that the heir apparent of Moammar Qaddafi, son Saif (there is another son with a very similar name who’s been killed), son Saif is in hospital, injured.  I think that is the important part.  How does the transitional government deal with the part of the Green Party that does not necessarily carry the baggage of Qaddafi’s insanity.  There are probably plenty of people with a lot to lose who might try to regroup around Saif.  Saif might try to run against whoever emerges as the non-Qaddafi candidate, as Green and with some continuity.

  • Anonymous

    Most important news of the week: Godfather’s Pizza is awful!


  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

    FYI -  There was a 2 year old girl in China that was runned down twice by 2 cars and people saw it happened and no one helped the 2 yr old child. The child is dead after a week in ICU. A military hospital spokes person said – Her little life has left this world “We feel deep pain and shame as everybody does.”

  • wauch

    With respect to the nutbag in appropriately Zanesville, OH I say the following
    “Sometimes you have to protect people from themselves. In this case you
    have to protect communities from their idiotic outliers and animals from
    being adopted/owned by psychotics. What does anyone need a tiger, lion,
    or bear for? This is all the more reason to ban and punish severely any
    exotic animal import/export. These are not commodities they are living
    breathing organisms who feel pain and probably felt a sense of hysteria
    they never deserved because some Ohioan got his rocks off having large
    animals on his property. If he hadn’t shot himself he should have been
    arrested and this guy like Mike Vick has no concept of right from wrong.
    Exotics includes people’s petty interest in exotic snakes, fish,
    lizards, etc. Ban it all! And would it kill cops to carry around with them a couple of tranquilizer bullets for this kind of incident and similarly dangerous humanoids?”

    • SteveV

      Wauch – there is no such thing as a “tranquilizer bullet”. But I do agree that
      most animals don’t belong in captivity. I have a friend who’s an Immigration
      Officer dealing with the importation of exotic species. The number of illegal
      animals, snakes, turtles, lizards, birds, etc, etc, would surprise you. Anything
      that lives and resides on the planet is fair game for these smugglers and has
      probably already found its way to the US. In my study of wildlife I’ve found
      nature is quite logical and makes sense. It’s humans that are often illogical and
      frequently don’t. Humans: The most destructive animal on the planet.

      • Rupps22

        Really? I know some cockroaches and coyotes who beg to differ.  Well maybe not beg to differ, but they definitely don’t agree.

  • JP

    The Daily Show had a great segment exposing the infantile hypocrisy of Republicans regarding the Administration’s role in Libya…

    John Bolton, among others, were shown first saying Obama should have gotten into Libya sooner to oust Qadafi, then after Qadafi’s death, the same idiots were blathering on about what a mistake it is to oust Qadafi and leave a power vacuum.

    The quote I really liked was:

    “Bin Laden, Awlaki, Qadafi, all in 6 months… If Obama were a Republican, he’d be on Mount Rushmore by now.”

    What absurd hypocrites!

    • LanceC2

      The better for the Daily show.

  • CORY

    The footage of Khaddafy’s capture and execution is disgusting.  Sad how many can exult in the torture and death of a human.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      Probably their families suffered so much during his reign.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      He is not human he was Evil. Since I was a 12 yrs old kid a hated that man.

      • JaX32

        Sorry to correct you, but the only thing that is able to be evil is a human, so you may hate him, with good reason, but he was very human, just like you.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

          Why protect a man who was guilty of killing innocent people. Did he had remorse when he ordered to kill innocent people?

          It was his Karma. Yes he was evil disguised has human being like me.

          Jax32 don’t say sorry to me say sorry to the victim’s families.

      • http://www.richardsnotes.org Richard

        “He is not human he was Evil.”

        That’s an odd statement. So, anyone some group labels as “evil” isn’t human and so, deserves to die by lynch mob?

        We learn from the Milgram experiment that we don’t learn from the Milgram experiment.

    • Ellen Dibble

      I think the recovery of a brutalized population may depend on their sense of personally extricating themselves.  It may not “work” psychologically, to get them ready to start taking up responsibilities of citizenship if they are carrying the psychological and physical transgenerational hurts this man inflicted on them.  You could end up with the repression exploding out in disorder and violence that makes for great difficulty in the new nation taking shape.  I don’t know.  But in Iraq, the years of abuse never got shaken.  People didn’t have the feeling they personally had taken the risks and located the tyrant and disabled him.  And you see the amount of anger and conflict that remained.  If it weren’t for YouTube, not so many Libyans could participate in this sense of having done this.  I don’t think Americans ever felt the same way about King George.  It’s hard to compare.

      • Gregg

        Well said.

      • Anonymous

         We did about Emperor Hirohito and Tojo. For the most part a lot of the members of the First Continental Congress were still loyal to King George III and merely wanted more autonomy. Not quite the same thing really.

  • Anonymous

    I’m not sure why BUR has to post this. This reminds me of Mussolini’ death which was more horrific. I’m not sure if I have any sympathy for Muammar Gadhaf and this it’s a good example of mob rule which is not a good start for Libya. In my view it would have been better if they put him on trial. War and revolutions are messy things.

    • http://www.richardsnotes.org Richard


      The other thing the trial does is tease out and list all of the corruption in the Libian government, all the players, the places where bodies are buried, etc. To not have a trial is not the best way to start the next phase of Libya’s life as a country.

      In a way, to not put Bush and Cheney on trial for war crimes was the wrong way for Obama to start his presidency…

    • Steve

      Order vs. disorder – the rule of law vs. anarchy.

      People in the West are often unaware of on-the-ground, centuries old strife throughout the Middle East and are very quick to embrace the “Arab Spring” as a confirmation of our values.  It is not neccessarily so;  Jack’s viewpoint seems quite parochial.

    • notafeminista

      On the whole, life in general tends to be messy.

      • Anonymous

        True, but not as messy as Kadhafi’ death.

        • notafeminista

          Yes as messy as Kadhafi’s death and messier.  What color is the sky in your world anyway?

  • Long Time On Point Listener

    U.S. drone strike kills 78 in Somalia.

    So just because President Obama ‘won’ the Nobel Peace Prize, Obama thinks that gives him a green light to kill Somalians at will?

    America has a War-Monger-in-Chief squatting in the White House.

    • Long Time On Point Listener

      President Obama must be arrested and made to stand trial for his egregious war crimes.

      • Anonymous

        Get real.

        • Long Time On Point Listener

          So Obama has 78 Somalians killed and you’re OK with that?

          You’re a real prize.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            Were those seventy-eight pirates?  Seventy-eight members of al Shabab?

      • Anonymous

        When he and his minions blatantly lie and fake evidence to involve us in a corruptly and ineffectually run ten-year war, I’ll be urging that on.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        After ‘W’ and his cohorts?

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      The Somalis are of the opinion that it’s acceptable to attack ships that pass within hundreds of miles of their coast.  Drone strikes are small-time self defense.

      • Steve


        The Somalis bear responsibility for the piracy of the East coast of Africa, but world politics AND internal instability are starving the people throughout this portion of the continent.

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

          We’ve tried to help over the years, and various factions keep making any help impossible.  If the Somalis stop attacking ships and let us in, I’ll be willing to feel sorry for them.  Otherwise, we’ll have to continue doing what we’re doing–and it is to be hoped in a more effective manner.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    This was the first leader brought down by the Arab Spring?  What about the president of Tunisia?

  • Drew You Too

    Thanks, I apologize for being so general

  • Drew You Too

    Thanks, I apologize for being so general

  • TFRX

    If you’ve been wondering “Doesn’t press coverage of President Obama seem odd compared to the GOP clown college?”

    Pew Research has the answer this week:

    —Obama’s coverage “has been substantially more negative in every one of the last 23 weeks of the last five months-even the week that Bin Laden was killed,” Tom Rosenstiel, director of the Project for Excellence in Journalism, said of the president’s treatment in the media compared with that of the GOP field.—


  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Then caller, feel free to stop talking.  You’re being merely squeamish.

  • Bill

    Pretty sad state that Qaddafi became one of our closer allies last decade. What does that say about the US?

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Closer allies?  We showed him that behaving in a civilized manner has rewards, but he wasn’t an ally.

      • Bill

        We normalized relations with him, sent suspects to him to be tortured. The only “civilized” thing he did was open Libyan oil to energy corporations friendly to the administration of that time.

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

          He was rewarded for stopping his program for weapons of mass destruction and for paying reparations for Lockerbie.

  • Mimi

    Give President Obama another Nobel Peace Prize for providing help to another oppressed people, allowing Libyans to free themselves from a horrible, evil despot.

    • Long Time On Point Listener

      Then Obama can stand trial for the 78 Somalians he had killed in a drone strike.

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        Military action in self defense–what’s your objection?

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

          Hey Greg,  when you get to the golden gates of Heaven and stand in front of Saint Peter, there will be a trap door under your feet. Proceed to tell him how good and patriotic you are, but listen for that click, and then you will feel like your stomach is in your throat.  This is normal, you will be falling rapidly to Hell.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            When you stand before Odin, and the All-Father asks you what you have done for the Aesir and the Vanir, what answer will you give?

    • GretchenMo

      For a peace prize guy, he’s killed a lot of people. Just saying…

      • Anonymous

        His duty is to the USA, not the Nobel prize committee.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Caller, we kept Gadafi in power?  Huh?

  • Mark McGettrick

    The apparent execution of Gadhafi should not come as a surprise and the international media should let the matter go. Imagine yourself as a freedom fighter, your family living your lives under a brutal dictator, you probably know people tortured and murdered – you find yourself face to face with him and you exact ultimate justice. I say he had it coming a thousand times over.

  • jim

    Forget about Gaddafi’s crime compare with the crimes committed by the rebels. The guy was ALIVE when he was captured! The Libyan people have done an injustice and they have blood in their hand. Murder is murder and nothing can condone it. It is a disgrace. What is more disgracing is the West. The UN had to choose sides on a civil war. Why did they not intervene in Rwanda or Burundi? Because these countries did not have oil? or because human life is cheaper there? Imagine if the UK were to get into a civil war between the working class and the aristocrats. should be bomb 99% of the people?

    To the West and especially UN:
    Forget about Democracy and stop being naive. You have made another Iraqi when the previous dictator is replaced by another dictator.

    • Anonymous

      I think a large part of our decision to intervene in Libya was due to input to the President by those who witnessed first hand our refusal to do so in Rwanda and, to a lesser degree, the Balkans, and recognized the disastrous result of our failure and did not want it repeated.

  • Michael from Putney

    A few minutes before Gaddafi went down, his convoy was hit by an air strike. Does anyone suppose that the goal of that air strike was to kill Gaddafi? That might have mutilated his body somewhat, no?

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    George W. Bush won the nomination through the same strategy as Perry.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

    I wont defend the morality or ruthlessness of Ghaddafi ( westerners will never know the truth), but I do know he created a very good standard of living for his country and stabilized the tribes of Libya.

    As for Lockerbee,  there are doubts to his complicity.  And like Saddam, ( and Osama (doubtful the OBL story has any truth) this is the reason, along with his association with the west, that he was humiliated and killed upon capture.

    The other real reasons for Ghaddafi topple, was his efforts to unify Africa,  create an African currency, a separate African satellite and communication network, and reject western commercial interests on the continent.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Doubts about Lockerbie?  Seriously?

      The standard of living in Libya that you name was at the cost of worshipping Gadafi.  Anyone who was a part of the cult had a good sort-of life.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso


  • Dpweber83

    Signal-to-noise ratio’s getting awfully low in the comments…

    Boston, MA

  • Anonymous

    Lindsey Graham gets the Flying Fickle Finger of Fate Award for his reaction to the death of Qaddafi:

    “We can go over there and help them build
    their infrastructure up.”


    “ Let’s get in on the ground. There is a lot of money to be made in the
    future in Libya. A lot of oil to be produced.

    Let’s get on the ground and
    help the Libyan people establish a democracy and a functioning economy based on
    free market principles.”He said this yesterday, after voting with every other Republican senator against Obama’s $35 billion to hire or retain teachers,
    firefighters and emergency responders.He is perfectly willing to spend our money on infrastructure in Libya to increase profits for the oil companies that fund his campaigns, but not to create jobs for Americans by rebuilding our infrastructure at home.He couldn’t have dramatized the motivation behind OWS any better if he’d tried.

    • nj

      Saves work for Saturday Night Live writers. They can just take those comments verbatim.

      Most Republicans have become fully self parodying.

    • GretchenMo

      Yeah, let’s let China have it.  We can just borrow more.

      • Anonymous

        Whoever pays the most for it gets it.  Hell, we can’t even get Canada to commit to dedicating its tar sand oil to our country even after we let them pipe it across our country and refine it here.  You seem pretty naive about this.

      • Fredlinskip

        Spoken like a true “Borrow and Spend” GOPer- like Reagan, lke W, and every other GOP administration since beginning of Reagan’s “voodoo economics”.

    • Anonymous

      Well you know we can’t help Americans now. They must do it themselves. (sarcasm) Graham and all those other political hacks who voted against a jobs bill that would have hired teachers and first responders should be held accountable. The Republicans would hold this entire nation hostage if they had to to win back the White House.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Caller, Gadafi was a Castro-hero figure?  You must see the world in an entirely different way from how I see it.

  • Hikaru Katayamma

    Am I the only person who finds it amusing that the 9-9-9 tax rate is the default tax rate from the Sim City game?

  • Tina

    Is “Apples and Oranges” the full extent of political argument that Americans can handle nowadays?  

    • Steve

      Thank you Tina

    • http://www.richardsnotes.org Richard

      Yes, when the media that many watch and read presents things as such.

      Nuance has gone out the window… this will probably be a big piece of our downfall when history is written.

  • TFRX

    Caller says “Herman Cain’s plan was attacked with not-really solid evidence”.

    I, for one, love how the 9-9-9 plan’s numbers are so off the beam that Republicans are going after it for its actual factuals.

    Any guesses as to the life expectancy of a Democrat who said, in successive weeks, “I don’t have the facts to back me up (on my hunch)”, and “I have no idea”?

    • Anonymous

      In some political circles. it is a prominent selling point in your favor that everyone else thinks you’re wrong.  Cain appeals to that group.

      • TFRX

        But his circle is the GOP. Who was the last one of them to succeed by being contrarian where the crazed rheotric knob was cranked to 11 and then broken off?

        In an atmosphere which is more pep rally than debate, and barely a discouraging word is asked of someone by a journalist before another candidate “legitimizes” it, and “hard hitting” interviews are conducted by CBN and Fox News and CN(Teabagger chasing)N, real “contrarian”, real “everyone else thinks you’re wrong” is being reality-based.

        And to me that’s a niche market which won’t get you the nomination. Ask Jon Huntsman.

        • Anonymous

          I think we agree on what it takes to appeal to the Repub base.

  • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

    Thanks Jack for exposing some of the “con” in Herman Cain. He’d be a joke if the not for the fact the low-information loons on the Right didn’t elevate him to frontrunner status.

    • Steve

      I do not consider myself to be:
           low-information, a loon, or on the right in most instances.  I
           am not convinced by the arguments of Herman Cain, and I am
           not under the illusion that acrimony is a recent addition to the
           political arena, but
      dismissing the opposition as a con/joke is disrespectful at best and dangerous at worst.

      • TFRX

        Ultrax said “exposing some of the ‘con’ in Herman Cain”.

        How does this get morphed into “dismissing” and “dangerous” to actually express relief that the numbers are being crunched now, at long last?

        In a mediascape where NPR headlined Cain’s plan as “catchy”, quoting exactly nobody, then took about two weeks to bring themselves to interview real economists, I think ultrax is “on point” with this one: Low information voters are disproportionately on one side of the aisle, and consume media which reinforce their beliefs, leaving the only countering to be done by a mainstream media which is loathe to ask economists for clear, cold-eyed assessments.

        How can any of the media’s reaction to Cain’s plan be more dangerous than what they’ve covered themselves in over the last decade? Birtherism? CommunistSocialistFascistKenyanism?

        • Steve

          Thank you for the response.

          …”he’d be a joke if…, low information loons”…

          I had not considered the media or the polls in my response.  I think the conversation would be furthered both in the media and on these boards if logic were employed more than vitriol.

          • TFRX

            No prob.

            The media framing and the polls are an integral part of the process, to my eye.

            I’ll stay with logic or even factual based-ness only when the mainstream press does. Otherwise, I’ll never be able to turn off the media crit in me.

            And the media crit in me wants to know, for example, where NPR invented the headline “Catchy” for Cain’s plan.

  • Cjbart100

    I reject the notion that we have to wait to see if democracy succeeds Libya in order to determine if American involvement was the correct choice. We have succeeded in giving them the OPPORTUNITY to form a new democratic government. If they don’t succeed, it will be their own failure. The alternative was no intervention – and Gadhafi would still be in power today.

  • Long Time On Point Listener

    Libyan rebel commander admits his fighters have al-Qaeda links

    That’s great, Obama has given Al-Qaeda backed rebels the keys to power in Libya, and ownership of Libya’s vast oil reserves.

    • Dpweber83

      The article says there are “around 25″ al-Qaeda-linked fighters.  

      So, NATO should have left Libya’s 6.6 million people to the tender mercies of Qaddafi because of 25 guys?

      Boston, MA

      • Long Time On Point Listener

        A lot more Libyans have died since the Al-Qaeda backed rebels tried to take over the country.

        All those ‘kinetic’ bombs that Obama dropped on Libya, killed a lot of Libyans as well.

        • Dpweber83

          And plenty of Libyans died at the hands of Qaddafi’s security apparatus.  What, exactly, is your point?

          Boston, MA

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            Long Timer is sorry that Gadafi is gone.  Could it be because the world has lost a raving wacko?  No more rambling nonsense from Gadafi.  I wanted him to get his own talk show as a consolation prize, but alas, that’s not going to happen.

          • Long Time On Point Listener

            Wrong slick,

            I’m not sorry that Kadhafi is gone,

            I’m sorry that Al-Qaeda backed rebels are now running the country, all thanks to President Obama.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            Uh huh, their finance minister was a professor in an American university–Seattle, if I recall correctly.  What’s your evidence that the whole rebellion is backed by al Qaeda?

          • Long Time On Point Listener

            I posted a link, but you won’t bother reading it.

            Just as long as dark-skinned people are getting killed in Africa, you’re happy.

          • Ellen Dibble

            I would bet that any government in Libya is going to put relationships with oil-consuming countries in the high priority category.  I would also bet that however much certain Libyans hold grudges against Israel, they have benefitted by certain American drones, and may need American advisors and help to de-weaponize the country.  Various reasons.  For such reasons, it would be very counterproductive to start right out kowtowing to al-Kaida.  They may have to come to terms with more extreme takes on Islam than is palatable, but we won’t see the descendants of bin Laden’s ideology as ambassadors to the UN.  Nope.   For one thing, too many Libyans — smart and entrepreneurial and freedom-loving ones — have succeeded in getting foreign educations and are eager to go home and serve their own country.  In Iraq, the returning expatriates were not such good news, as it turned out, so we’ll see.   

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

            Oh yes Greg,  these islamist rebels will be completely ignorant of the selected western trained leaders who speak fluent english and were put into office by the occupiers.  They wont even notice their US mercenary bodyguards driving in the SUVs.  These islamist rebels will stay in their mosques, while these few political puppets arrange deals for US oil companies and set up the banking system and IMF loans.   You are dreaming.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            And you’re paranoid and delusional.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

            We’ll just add another item to the LAST REFUGE OF A SCOUNDREL list:
            1. Patriotism
            2. Says “Prove it”  when faced with facts.
            3. Accusations of anti-semetism
            4. Attributes “paranoia and delusion” to very insightful minds.

            Greg,  I am sure I am not done with this list.  Anything else??

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            In your case, believes anything, so long as it’s not the standard story, even when the evidence is against him.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

            I assume you get your “standard story” from Fox News??  The corporate media??   You must be all-knowing.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            Let’s see–what message board are we on?  Oh, yes, WBUR.  I note that you’re here as well.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

            Believe me Greg, NPR IS THE CORPORATE MEDIA.  lately since NPR almost lost their funding, they have done a Dr. Jecklian transformation.  Dina Temple Raston rivals Tokyo Rose in her propaganda..  to be sure, I have to translate their news reports to arrive at reality. 

          • Anonymous

            There is none. This chap just likes to post anti Obama rhetoric.
            It’s all about venting this weird kind of right wing anger over anything that Obama does. Obama could walk the dog and they would find something snide and degrading to say.

  • Robert

    But, isn’t using a presidential campaign to make money sorta of the enterprising thing that a Republican voter should prize?

  • TFRX

    Yeah, let’s hear more crap from Mitch McConnell.

    And wasn’t this another “60 is the new 51″ votes? How many NPR guests do we have to put in the same room to say that out loud?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

      Mitch McConnell is a walking caricature of all that is flawed in the American political system.

      • Long Time On Point Listener

        You’ve got to throw Obama, the War-Monger-in Chief in as well.

      • TFRX

        I hope you’re not trying to suggest “both sides do it”.

        I can get that “wisdom” from Cokie Roberts. Or any pundit on the Evening News or Sunday yakkers.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Vice-president Biden,

    The police usually show up after the crime has been completed.  Perhaps you’ll also support letting good citizens have effective tools of self defense?

    • Anonymous

      Where is the administration preventing citizens from having those tools?  Obama has publicly stated his view that the 2nd Amendment right is personal to every citizen.

      I think anyone raped would like the perpetrator caught and effectively prosecuted.  That’s what cops help accomplish.

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        It’s still illegal to carry on college campuses in my state.  Imagine a student leaving class in the evening.  My school has a handful of security guards and thousands of students on a campus spread out over many acres.  The response time is too long to stop an attack before it happens.  I’d rather have a citizen stop it than have her be left with hoping that the police will catch the man who did it.

        • Anonymous

          Geez, I didn’t know Biden was in charge of your campus.  He must be a real busy guy.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            I was responding to his notion that a few more police officers will be enough to protect everyone.  I don’t object to more officers, but I know that hiring them isn’t the magic answer to every problem.

  • Bill

    Topeka Kansas – a sizable number of domestic batterers have been released without being charged simply because they did not have the money to deal with it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=84000469 Rob Senn

    Gumble should be ashamed to invoke slavery over an argument that boils down to who gets how many millions. That kind of hyperbole only only serves to undermine real debate and cheapen his credibility as a sports journalist.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Yup, let us all weep when millionaires fight over how to divide the spoils.

    • Steve

      Bread and Circus while  the Visogoths are at the gate

  • Anonymous

    What good is a short term fix for a long term problem.  

    Hiring cops and fire fighters for one year is great until next year!

    • Dpweber83

      “What good is a short term fix for a long term problem.”

      If you’re on a boat with a shoddy rudder, and you’ve also sprung a leak, a short term fix can mean the difference between being able to fix that rudder and hopping in the lifeboats.

      “Hiring cops and fire fighters for one year is great until next year!”

      Are crime and fires planning on taking next year off?

      Boston, MA

      • Anonymous

        You’re using basic logic.  Brandstad isn’t going to be able to understand.

        • Anonymous

          Oh I understand his logic.  Money grows on trees and it doesn’t matter how much it costs because the magic money tree will just produce more.

           Didn’t the state and local governments decide that they didn’t need the people they laid off?  If so shouldn’t the people who laid off the police and firemen explain their actions and how they chose to fire these people and not an office worker.

          • Anonymous

            We have plenty of money.  It’s a matter of collecting and spending it efficiently and with the correct priorities.

          • Anonymous

            There is something we can agree on.  There isn’t any need to tax us more, we just need to cut government waste that almost everyone can agree is well into the billions, and restrict the scope of our federal government to what is needed, not what is wanted.

          • Fredlinskip

            Cutting spending isn’t going to remove trillions from our national debt.
            Only added revenue- preferably from those who can most afford it- can do that.

          • TFRX

            Isn’t the best thing for the national debt an increase in GDP of 1/2 or 1 percent? Won’t that do more for that than all the austerity in the world at this point in the business cycle?

          • Fredlinskip

               So you apparrently believe increase in GDP necessarily translates into more employment and more income for most Americans??
                Recent history seems to throw doubt on that assumption.

            There seems already to be plenty of “austerity in business cycle”- companies are not hiring.
            You’d think in the interests of staying ahead of competition American corps might hire for R&D of new products. Maybe they are doing that hiring- overseas.

          • notafeminista

            Um, ok – so if we stop spending money on “waste” so-called or on pet projects of assorted politicians, can’t that money be put towards say…the debt?

            Have you ever balanced a checkbook? 

          • Fredlinskip

            Ithink it’s a far-fetched premise if we just eliminate “waste” country’s debt problems will decline. 
               Cutting spending may eventually help country “balance the buget” i.e. we spend as much as  we take in… but I think you are seriously deluding yourself if you believe that we will be able to pay down trillions in debt.
                To do that we need to reinstate tax policy this country has had in more prosperous times. Study history- look at the facts. Want to cut taxes of wealthiest Americans to 25% (or 9-9-9) as GOP presidential candidates are proposing? that’s the tax rate country had before entering Great Depression.
                IMO, that’s not coincidental.

          • Dpweber83

            “Money grows on trees and it doesn’t matter how much it costs”

            You talk really tough for someone who’s never met me.  I make *beans* in an expensive city, but I also understand that we demand certain services of our government.  I answered your question.

            Boston, MA

      • Anonymous

        What are you willing to give up to pay for this?

        • Dpweber83

          Raise my income taxes by 3% if you’d like.  

          Boston, MA

          • JonS

            Brandstad asks a valid question. Unless the feds are going to be sending billions to the states every year , what happens next year? This is at best a temporary one year fix that doesn’t force profligate states to prioritize their needs. Since when is it a federal responsibility to pay for state and local employees/needs? If Calif or NY ( or any state) wants to hire additional teachers, cops , etc. nothing stops them if they are willing to re-direct freakin money from some other account. But they are not which is why they come to Washington with their hand out. Is government at ANY LEVEL ever capable of cutting back and prioritizing? 

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    No one has sixty votes in the Senate.  That’s why little is getting passed these days.

    • Anonymous

      Sixty votes shouldn’t be required on every matter.  Republicans are holding the economy hostage to hurt Obama.

      • TFRX

        “Keeping millions out of work so one man will lose his job.”

        • Long Time On Point Listener

          It’s Obama’s failed economic policies that are keeping millions out of work.

          • TFRX

            Let’s see: Trust a deadhorsebeating troll, or a plethora of mainstream economists and the CBO?

            Do you ever get left alone at cocktail parties, and wonder why?

          • Long Time On Point Listener

            I know that the truth hurts for you R2D2 (or whatever your name is),

            your war-monger-in chief, globalist President is failing miserably, and he’s a war criminal.

            Try not to cry in your Happy-Meal.

          • TFRX

            You’re a hack. The programmed anti-Obamabot in you will just say anything at this point.

            Y’see, we all know what Fox and Rush and Hannity and even greater vermin do for a living. You’re not being clever putting it out here.

          • Anonymous

            Who is JL?

  • TFRX

    Tom, “The Republicans have 60 votes in the Senate?”


    No. They have over 41 votes. They have thrown sh!tfits over everything. They simply don’t want government to work.

    Why does someone like me have to point this out to NPR? A record number of obstructions and holds have made governing with the WATBs an impossible task. And for the GOP, that’s a feature, not a bug.

    Can’t we get some NPR hosts and guest to chant, on cue, “UP OR DOWN VOTE! UP OR DOWN VOTE! UP OR DOWN VOTE!” like the whole of the mainstream media did for George W. Bush?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

    So here’s the deal, Ghaddafi was demonized, and enemy tribes were supported by the west to remove him. 

    Now its time for the west to demonize the “liberators”,  since they will be more anti-west than Ghaddafi ever was.  

    It is quite clear why Israel was supplying arms and support to Ghaddafi.   Its going to get very interesting.  

  • Ehdoss

    On the Senate Job Bill – In two years there better not be a Republican in the White House advocating a jobs bill that dumps money ito the states.  All Republican debate candidates should make a pledge against that now. 

    • Anonymous

      If the Republicans take the Presidency and win some seats in both houses of Congress the odds are that there extreme austerity measures will put our economy in the doldrums or worse a nose dive.
      Then they will be voted out of office and the whole damn thing will start all over again. It’s called dysfunctional government.

      In my view we are now in the throngs of a Constitutional crisis and nothing short of a Constitutional convention will solve the muck and mire that has been wrought by these political hacks.
      I don’t know about the rest of the folks out there but when I see that the only 12.8% of Americans approve of the job that Congress is doing, which means that over 80% do not, than I’m inclined to think we have a major problem with our government.

      • Ellen Dibble

        Agreed.  But that would be in the “throes of a Constitutional crisis.”  So where do the supreme court justices come down on this?  Or did they actually craft a part of it?  People complain that OWS is asking the question:  How do we fix this?   They are not proposing a neat answer.  And I’m listening to hedge fund manager sorts of people, as if they might be considering, how is it that our success and our efforts to support retirees’ funds for safekeeping and growth, how is it that our very sophisticated oversight of the global economy is NOT impressing the populace as just what we need and want?  Am I NOT supposed to lobby for what helps this undertaking?  

             And to that hedge fund manager, I’d say, keep listening.  Part of that is good.  But the fact that some 80 or 85 percent of us are saying something is rotten in our government and polity, that should suggest that plenty of perspectives are not getting represented.  And it isn’t your job to listen to and represent those 80 percent.   But it should be part of the government’s responsibility, so back up and let others have something like 80 percent of “the floor.”  It’s about time.

      • TFRX

        That 12.8% approval of Congress is a feature, not a bug.

        It is a preordained fact that the media coverage of government will turn around the next time a Republican gets into the White House, leading to a narrativization of the idea that things in government are “back to normal”.

        And a constitutional convention? Given the hackery on the right, I don’t trust them to check the air in my tires, let alone do a KwikLube oil change.

      • Fredlinskip

        If we have over half the members of congress are unified in their belief that making Obama a 1-term prez rules over all other policy priority- of course no meaningful policy is going to occur. 

        GOP has majority in House and because of recent abuse of filibuster a Dem majority in Senate means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

           Want things to improve?- We need a fillibuster-proof majority in Senate. Until that day our government is going to be as dysfunctional as we ever have had and this country will pay dearly.
            Can you say 2nd Great Depression? 

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Caller, what would you suggest doing with the exotic animals?  Perhaps you’d like to invite the nice kitties over for milk?

    The authorities did what had to be done.  Now, Ohio needs to ban private ownership.

  • Bill

    Poor laws about animals in general in Ohio are driven in part by the large puppy mill industry there.

    • TFRX

      Is it worse than Missouri?

  • Guest

    To paraphrase that last caller on Gaddafi and animals:

    What a disgusting act to have authorities hunt down and kill exotic animals as if they were humans!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=84000469 Rob Senn

    “When the shadow of the sash appeared on the curtains it was between seven and eight oclock and then I was in time again, hearing the watch. It was Grandfather’s and when Father gave it to me he said I give you the mausoleum of all hope and desire; it’s rather excrutiatingly apt that you will use it to gain the reducto absurdum of all human experience which can fit your individual needs no better than it fitted his or his father’s. I give it to you not that you may remember time, but that you might forget it now and then for a moment and not spend all your breath trying to conquer it. Because no battle is ever won he said. They are not even fought. The field only reveals to man his own folly, and despair, and victory is an illusion of philosophers and fools.”

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp


    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      O.K., “The Sound and the Fury”–now, please tell us your point.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

        Greg his point is Our World in how humans react to each other’s life.

        simple, he made into a story.

  • Qwerty

    the camera man is the worst camera man EVER!!! 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

    Another evil man gone from our world there are still tons of them out there. They could be behind you or in front of you or even you and me. they don’t have to be a dictator in order for us to know them. This is sad about our world that every human being thinks that they are perfect and they are immune from evil doings of man but Gadhafi represent each one of us.

  • Long Time On Point Listener

    Next week,
    On Point must devote at least one program to the 78 Somalians killed in a drone attack that President Obama ordered.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Again, seventy-eight what?  We aren’t just tossing missiles for no purpose.  When the Somalis stop threatening ships on the high seas and stop participating in terrorist attacks outside of their borders, we’ll stop firing on them.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

        Pirates don’t hijacked ships on land mister Greg. that the points of the comments. see i don’t get your mentality

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

          But they do take their loot back to land.  They do live on land.  They do repair their boats and acquire weapons on land.  Besides, Somalis also mount attacks on land.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

            Because Greg Camp represents those people who are thoughtless
            but have ideas to write in how to make the world perfect.

            I don’t get his mentality. Pablo Caruso has more heart than him. Camp has a heart of a Pebble.

        • Long Time On Point Listener

          78 Black-Aficans are dead, (thanks to Obama) and G.C. is cool with that.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            Somalis are a different ethnic group from Sub-Saharan Africans–not that it’s important here.  You do keep avoiding my question about who these seventy-eight were.  Are you claiming that they were just innocent villagers going about their lives?

          • Long Time On Point Listener

            They’re from the continent of Africa.  They’re Somalian-Africans.

            Unfortunately, 78 of them couldn’t out-run Obama’s drones.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            Were they al Shabab or pirates?  That doesn’t seem to matter to you.

          • Long Time On Point Listener

            Obama had 78 Somalians killed without a trial!!

            Who gave Obama the authority to have people killed without a trial?

            Or that doesn’t matter to you?

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            Acts of war are different from criminal justice matters.

    • Mimi

      How about devoting 3 seconds to morons beating a dead horse… over and over and over again.

      To bad there’s not a way for the community to collapse some idiots who can’t stop parroting themselves ad nauseum.

      • Long Time On Point Listener

        Stop living in you warped, fantasy-bizzaro-world lady.

        ‘Your’ President had 78 innocent Somalians killed without a trial.

        That’s a war crime!

        • Anonymous

          In your “world” are Bush and Cheney war criminals as well?

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

            Yes in “Our World” they are criminals.

          • Long Time On Point Listener

            Yes, they need to answer for their crimes, just like Obama needs to answer for his. 

          • LetsStart

            So, let’s see what we can do about it.

            This a great forum for ideas.

            Who has some? Where do we start?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68
    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Our world?  Please don’t characterize everyone by the actions of a few.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

        really you always LIVE IN A perfect life. that you never experienced something happening in front of you but you never did anything. Don’t be such a hyprocrite.

        You write about politics how to change this and that but what is your goal in life. what is the purpose of you living in this world

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

          The baby died in China.  I wasn’t there.  I do what I can in my part of the world.  My point was that not all of us pass by without caring.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

            You weren’t there but their actions represents Us. Don’t tell me you never ever hurt anyone’s feelings or whatever causes harm to someone or be a a-hole in someone’s life. that’s not point about Our World

            Me? I am not perfect I hurt people’s feeling before. I regret doing that but you pretend that you are perfect. That the “world has nothing to do with you. You can even march on the street to show your frustrations but you stuck on message boards to show the world that you care but actually doing it.

            Is that hard for you to understand Mister Greg the Perfect Camp.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            1.  I never claimed to be perfect.  I asked you not to characterize everyone on the basis of the actions of a few.

            2.  You’re on the same message board.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

            Why are you so defensive.  seems like using the “Our World affects you so much.

  • Long Time On Point Listener

    Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, laughs about murder of Gaddafi.

    What a classy lady.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      she hates the guy.

      • Long Time On Point Listener

        She’s a globalist who hates freedom.

        But she’s a globalist who wants to shove world-goverment down our throats.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

      The CBS interview of Hillary laughing was more disturbing than the video of rebels killing Ghaddafi.   She is a the Secretary of State !!!!!!!  

      Not only did she laugh about the illegal killing of a world leader, she admitted complicity by saying WE, ” WE CAME, WE SAW, WE KILLED HIM”      And to top of this obscene display,  she plays of “veni vedi vici” in declaring empire.   

      The Clintons are a compromised trashy family,  and this shrill woman is insane, if not the most incompetent diplomat ever.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

    Regarding the WILD ANIMALS.

    Looks to me that a few yahoo meathead deputies got the free safari hunting trip of a lifetime. 

    They could have waited as most of the animals were staying near their food source.

    The police could have quickly driven to Piggly Wiggly or whatever supermarket, empty the meat department and throw sides of beef at  the animals to keep them busy and fed, while the authorities arrived by helicopter with the tranquilizers. 

    What we’ve seen here exemplifies US foreign policy and pre-emptive yahoo warmongering.   Gung ho Americans will use any excuse to KILL LIVING THINGS…animals and people.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      These were wild animals wandering around civilized Ohio.  Perhaps you’d volunteer to be the distraction for the tigers?

      Seriously, sometimes the authorities have to make an unfortunate choice to save lives.  In this situation, there was no good outcome.  The only question was how to mitigate the bad results.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

        Person liked this 1. I guess Mister Camp is not the only one who has a one track mind about “Our World”

        • Long Time On Point Listener

          G.C. should do himself a favor and quit while he’s behind.

    • Long Time On Point Listener

      You’re absolutely right again P.C..

      Last week it was 78 innocent Somalians.
      Yesterday it was animals.
      Who will it be tomorrow, patriotic Americans?

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

        it might happen it might happen with the OWS. let us wait and see.

    • Caitrin

      this one was a lot cheaper to do than the warmongering that the US usually stirs up.

    • Gregg

      Jack Hannah supported the action and his explanation made sense to me.


    • Jsix30

      I agree about the safari comment but as for the bait and sedate business,  Jack Hanna explained the extreme difficulty involved with tranquilizing penned animals in daylight, let alone running loose at night. leopards do not feed similarly to bears just as bears do not behave similarly to lions and tigers. In addition, it was reported that these animals were not trained as pets. the large carnivores were WILD animals spending their lives in cages. there were many elements and complications involved. what if a citizen was attacked or even killed? the Sheriff’s Department would be blamed for not doing everything within their power to protect human life. its sad that most of the animals involved (some still caged) had to be killed.
      ~ Columbus, Ohio born and raised

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      I respect people who cares about living things it shows how warm hearted you are in message boards and in real life.

    • RChicago

      This didn’t need to happen to begin with. This guy had been sited dozens of times for neglect and the animals should have been removed a long time ago and placed in facilities where they could be cared for. Why is it humans sit around and do nothing in hopes a problem will go away? Most problems just get worse – that’s why they are called problems to begin with.

      Private citizens shouldn’t have exotic animals. Why does anyone think it’s a good idea for someone to import an animal from another country to keep in their backyard? Enough people have trouble taking care of their dogs and cats properly now we need to add exotic animals to the mix? Good grief…who ever is in the driver’s seat (public servants) needs to wake up. Where is the common sense?

    • Fredlinskip

      Probably wasn’t much of a safari.
      The cats were prettty domesticated and not afraid of humans and likely walked right up to the “hunters”. They obviously had not wandered far from their regular food source.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

    In respect for Greg Camp i write

    This is how “Our Earth” treated a 2 year old child.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      he rather bashed me that having a comment about the 2 year old.
      He rather sees my mistakes than having something to say about the 2 year old girl runned over by 2 cars.
      he rather say something about me than having remorse about the child. That is Greg Camp the champion of all Liberal people but never really give a damn about people

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        Actually, I think that the treatment of that child was deplorable.  My objection was when you suggested that we all act the same way.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

          I didn’t say that “We all act the same” I said “Our World”

          Because it is really “Our World” or you want me to write “Our World except for Greg Camp”

          Hey if you don’t give a damn about the Somali will you care about “Our World.”

          • Anonymous

            Blaming everyone on the planet instead of the specific individuals who were or should have been responsible means no one is to be held responsible.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

            I am not blaming anyone mister John I said this how Our World treating a 2 year old girl Because is happening in Our World. you got the same mentality like Greg Camp.
            Where else will it happen not in Mars but in our world. right?

            it Our World because it is happening in Boston. New York, California, Florida and Lisa Irwin is missing right?

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      I suppose that you’ll have something to say to my notice that your link goes to “Page not found.”

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

        I noticed that you never checked the other comment that I wrote with a link but rather say something about ” Our World”.

        Always something to say about other people. Your attitude reflects your personality in real life. You must complain a lot or see other’s mistakes has much often.

  • WeakNews

    Weak – “Week in News”. 

    Just for a diversion will give you ‘Animals in Ohio’ diversion. 

    The other story should be how the Republican debate ‘smashmouths’ s didn’t even mention our ‘Economic 9/11′ and going after the banksters, GSEs and ratings agencies that allowed it to be perpetrated.

    Crooks and Criminals gotta stick together, you know?

    What about the Federal Reserve ‘backstopping’ $75 Trillion of Bank of America’s derivatives trades without regulatory approval?


    Guess who gets to cover those derivative bets if they fail?

    Talk amongst yourselves.  Go back to sleep sheeple. 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68


    Lisa Irwin still missing is this how “Our World” treats babies”.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      oh forgot I can’t use “Our World”. because people think I am blaming them.

      Okay i write it again, is “This how Our Earth treated babies”

  • Dee

    And once again –the GOP leadership under Mitch Mc Connell in the Senate and John Boehner in the Hse show they are unfit to response
    to the needs of ordinary as they voted against the latest round of
    Obama’s Jobs Bill….

    These are the people and their coherts in US corporations who are a threat to the American worker and the US economy today and indeed
    their evironment & health as they avoid implementing new EPA reforms
    to reduce emissions from their industries into our air, soil and water daily. Indeed, the world’s See the URL below.) -

    They are the people who really should be removed today. Not people
    like Gadhafi who never threatened the American people.  And indeed -
    him and get his oil supplies…

    (This was no Rwanda as the same hawks in the GOP including McCain,
    and Lieberman and others made it out to be.That was a far fetch com-parison–especially when many within the US were already working with
    Gadhafi on reforms in his country….)

    Now they have unleashed chaos on that population. Then people like
    Mc cain who spearheaded this American response against Gadhafi–
    gets  on the talk shows this morning and talk about helping Lybians re
    build  their country –when he voted against Obama’s Job Bill that would help struggling Americans….Shame! Shame, Shame !


    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      Actually Kadaf murdered Americans in Lockerbie I think there were almost 198 Americans that got killed and the bombing of a disco tech in Germany. I was only 21 years old when it all happen and I still remember to this day.

      • NotActually

        Do an internet search: Lockerbie CIA

    • William

      We don’t have the money and Obama has paid off his union supporters since the day he arrived in office. It is time to downsize the federal government.

      • Freefillbill

        Actually the gov increased drastically under the Bush admin too. It’s not a matter of Reps vs Democrats, that is the illusion of a struggle, the illusion of a choice. The real struggle is between the advantaged taking advantage of their positions to enrich themselves beyond the dreams of god kings of Egypt — that in itself not a negative — the fact that it was done by stealing money from every man woman and child in our nation by behind the scenes coercive manipulations of the law and economy is a problem.
        It is a class war, a war of the people with human values and morals against the users, psychopaths, sociopaths, mafia thieves and the syncophants who have their noses up the asses of anyone with money or power telling them they are right and righteous. To be taken up by the illusory struggle of the Republocrats is to be a blind ninny who cannot tell that puppets have a hand up their butt. Every candidate from both “major” parties is a joke played on the public by our masters. You know who the masters are — those are the people in charge who do incredible stupid things all the time, and are really only clever and cunning when it comes to enriching their own pockets whatever the cost to the sheeple.

    • Fredlinskip

      All of GOP policies have one obvious unifying priority.

      It is all about “feed the rich” at expense of everyone else.

      And they have such a good corporate propaganda organizations such as Rupert’s Fox “news” and Wall Street Journal, that a large number of folks actually think that GOP are somehow noble and actually care about Americans???  

  • Dee

    addendum… GOP, The Enemy of The American People

    I hope the Wall Street Protesters make the GOP leadership An Enemy of
    The American People and their coherts in US corporations….They are the ones threatening to destroy American workers and the American
    economy today. I know I will carry signs like this to protests & rallies.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C2STBLZJK4VKQBV27DVQX3I6CU FAX68

      GO FOR IT DEE!!! The power of the people will prevail.

    • Gregg

      Obama has you right where he wants you.

    • Long Time On Point Listener

      The GOP is far from perfect,

      but at least the GOP didn’t send out a drone that killed 78 Somalians like the war-monger Obama did.

      • Fredlinskip

        I suppose 100′s of thousands of “collateral damage” civilian deaths in Iraq during W years doesn’t bother you?

        • Long Time On Point Listener

          Bush and Cheney need to answer for their war crimes, just like Obama does.

          • Fredlinskip

            IMO, priority should be prosecuting the ones directly responsible for hundeds of thousands of innocent deaths first.

      • TFRX

        Keep sucking on those refined aluminum tubes and snorting that yellowcake.

    • JonS

      The wall street protesters are brain dead idiots and totally clueless.  I can never understand why the left knocks corporations. Don’t they understand that probably 75% of all people work for a company and that companies are nothing more than organizations of people? And that companies HIRE people? “Workers ” are hired –they do not hire. Or does that even matter to you?

      • Drewjkelly

        “Growing” the economy is obviously not the answer.
            Corporate execs over last 30+ years reaped all the benefits while everyone else’s wages stagnated. Americans have been sold a “bill of goods ” during that period that if if the upper percentiles do well it will trickle down and benefit all the economy.
          These policies exemplified by “business friendly” W administration produced the worst job growth by any aministration since WW II and that BEFORE THE FINANCIAL COLLAPSE.
            Consumers spending drives the economy.
            Lion’s share of job growth occurs by small companies and new start-ups not the mega-wealthy corps sitting on trillions, and who invest overseas first and America second.
           Until the income disparity created by a disillusioned policy of trickle- up economics is addressed our economy is going to be anemic.
            And many people are not even willing to consider the root causes of these issues.

        • jonS

          I don’t understand the obsession with what anyone makes. The fact is that no one’s situation in life resulted from the actions of any “millionaire or billionaire”. Whatever happened to the notion of personal responsibility?  People are not poor because the rich are to blame. Get over it. This country was built on the idea of equal opportunity –not equal result. Income redistribution only makes the country poorer- not richer. That’s what I find so disgusting with class warfare. It divides people , encourages resentment, and does absolutely nothing to advance anyone’s situation. Human labor is like any other asset–the market sets the value of one’s worth. That’s why entertainers and pro athletes get paid what they’re paid yet no one complains about their salaries. Why is that? Is it because corporations (big and small) are regarded by the idiot left as “evil”.

          • Dave in CT

            Jon, people who have never been productive, never taken something from less order/value and created something of greater order/value, only see the world as a static pie, the classic zero-sum game, where making even pieces is the only way to achieve fairness or a level of even comfort/prosperity.

            The idea of growing the pie through ideas and work, something even a gardner should understand, doesn’t factor in.

            Its the basic pitfall of entitlement cultures. Once the disconnect between work/effort/dynamism and meeting your need is broken, and the concept replaced with some magical third party that can provide all your wants and needs from Big Macs to Flat screen TVs, sets in, its hard to turn it back.

            Slap some Crony Capitalism on top that brings deserved indignation at the Government and Industry Cronies that have soiled our necessary system and its even harder.

            Self-governance is tough.  Looking for the magic savior, in church, or Washington, is easier.

            But you already know all that….

          • Brett

            Dave, if you’re going to use such a convoluted, mixed metaphor, at least spell the word “gardener” correctly…but let’s use such a silly comparison, shall we: a desert rose can not survive on its own in the harsh winters of Canada, does that make the plant lazy or a neurotic tally-sheet counter?  

          • Dave in CT

            What exactly were you guys disagreeing with besides spelling? Why  are you defending growing desert roses in the Tundra?

            We have to subsidize desert roses in the Arctic now?

          • SlimJackson

            Please stop spewing this nonsense that proceed directly from your hormones instead of your neurons. Get some education because no one on earth has the time to correct your misperceptions.

          • TFRX

            Typical conservative: Over the last 40 or 30 years, all the averages of everything are up. But that’s not the problem. It’s not whiny people who aren’t rich; they’ve become more productive and haven’t reaped the reward.

            This is a result of choices made by the government. Your side just wants to pretend it’s “natural”.

          • Anonymous

            Your world view is a bit skewed. People are affected by  “millionaires and billionaires”, we don’t live in isolated bubbles. What do think happened in 2007 and 08? The “millionaires and billionaires” on Wall Street brought the entire world to it’s knees.
            I would say 15 million people being laid off as a result of the crap on Wall Street is a pretty good example of a people being affected by  “millionaires and billionaires”.

            Then you go on to demonize people who are poor or lesser off than yourself, that’s pretty low in my book. This kind of view point seems very warped and lacking in any compassion for your neighbor or community.

          • JonS

            “Wall Street” has become a metaphor for all of corporate america and that is overly simplistic and misguided. Steve Jobs was a billionaire. So is Bill Gates. And Warren Buffett. Are they evil? Haven’t they contributed to the country’s well-being? And what about Bill Walton?

            I don’t demonize poor people. My point is that many of the poor are poor for reasons having nothing to do with millionaires and billionaires. Denying this reality is counter productive and self-defeating. The market values one’s labor and unfortunately in today’s world unless you have a certain skill , knowledge base, or experience ,you may lose out. Jobs for the uneducated or unskilled are overseas. 

            I do wonder if young people today have the passion, determination and drive to be successful. Or have they grown up in a culture that assumes that success in America is a matter of right rather than something earned. Just a thought.

          • Fredlinskip

            I agree with TFRX.

               The efforts of the top couple of % of Americans in engaging in class warfare for past 30 years+ has been disgusting- as are the obvious results to the overall well-being of our country.  

               Your romantic view of market capitalism does not take into consideration the systematic sabotage of our economic system for the benefit of afew.   

                Without proper oversight by a government that actually value the efforts of average American citizen over the values of top 1%, America is going the way of the Romans- & quickly.

          • GodAlmighty

                “I don’t understand the obsession with what anyone makes. The fact is
            that no one’s situation in life resulted from the actions of any
            “millionaire or billionaire”.”

            My neighbor worked at the supermarket for 20 years so far. She was counting on her retirement fund that she has been paying into.

            But her retirement fund disappeared because of the actions of a few million and billionaires”  Disappeared?  Actually it was transferred into the retirement accounts of a few of these faultless job creators on wall-street.

            Once again you display you are not ashamed at all to display your ignorance in public. Thank you for sharing it.

          • JonS

            I can’t respond to anecdotes but if your neighbor’s employer had an ERISA regulated pension then the funds are held in trust in not subject to seizure. Moreover the PBGC would kick in if the pension was underfunded. Her situation doesn’t jive…

          • Terry Tree Tree

            The GREEDY rich declared ‘class warfare’ a long time ago!  Many  policies and crimes have kept making it worse!

      • Hidan

        Typical nasty and uninformed conservative

      • Dave in CT

        People would prefer a Mad Max world if they can’t have utopian perfection.

        Freedom, including Free Markets, within a rule of law level playing field, is about the best humanity has been able to come up with to balance personal liberty, human nature and the need for us to be productive.

        But it’s not perfect, let alone, at this juncture we aren’t even holding anyone accountable for heinous white collar crimes, or focusing our discussion how to re-establish the rule of law so our system can at least function toward its ideal.

        Whats that saying? 

        The Perfect is the Enemy of the Good?


        Don’t throw the baby out with the Bath Water?

        Let’s try accountability first. When that’s show to fail, then we can have a revolution.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          The ‘conservatives’, that mouth such things, HAVE NOT tried accountability, in fact they have fostered the lack of accountability, and rewarded an AWOL DRUNK, DESERTER, and a lot of other criminals!!

          • Dave in CT

            What do you “mouth”? Wouldn’t you mouth the same thing? Who’s defending GOP lackey’s who love to use liberty language but are the same cronies as the rest of the establishment?

            You guys are so rabid, you attack what you think you are hearing, or seeing, instead of taking things at face value and having a rational conversation.

      • TFRX

        Yeah, they’d be better off with genuine American protest, like the Teabaggers sponsored by the Koch bros.

      • JonZ

        You don’t really know much about what caused our problems do you? They were entirely caused by the political, and corporate/financial leaders and heads. And the unholy alliance to keep themselves in power and money.  If you actually live on earth and can’t see that or don’t have the mental powers to figure it out, it is you who is the idiot here. You can continue blogging here and calling others idiots and clueless when it is readily apparent to anyone with two brain-cells to rub together that it is you who is wanting in the mental department.

        • JonS

          You and many of the bloggers on this site are too consumed by conspiracy theories. I know it probably makes you feel better to play the victim card and blame others for your sorry state in life but if you really want to improve things , begin looking at yourself in the mirror.  

          PS to TFRX–when you mention teabaggers and Koch bros you sound like one of OWS crowd I’ve referred to above.

        • Dave in CT

          “They were entirely caused by the political, and corporate/financial leaders and heads. And the unholy alliance to keep themselves in power and money.”

          And why do we waste time attacking each other and defending establishment Dems? Not many defending establishment Repubs, thankfully, here….

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Compared to the HUGE raises that CEOs and executives have given themselves, how has worker pay done in the U.S., for U.S. citizens? 

  • wavre

    The US and the West (NATO) are invading, killing, “droning” their way in weak third world countries in order to secure the more and more scarced ressources; while China and the big corprations are sitting back with a smile, waiting to be paid.
    The unhealthy alliance of China, India and big western corporations( the real power behind the governments)will enslave the rest of us.
    We’re at a crossroad, It’s up to the world middle class,working class and the poors, to shape and define what this new century should look like. It’s time for “We the People” to get back in charge of our destiny.

    All those “occupying Wall Street” demonstrations around the World may just be the beginning of that awakening.

    Obama has sadly missed his “FDR’s” opportunity to be Great and bold, and again, was he really one of us to begin with? For me the jury has already been in on that, a longtime ago. His newly rediscovered progressist rethoric is just another campaign strategy. He will drop it as soon as reelected.   

    • Long Time On Point Listener

      Obama re-elected??  (Thanks for the laugh.)

      The only way Obama could get re-elected would be if he sends out A.C.O.R.N. to stuff ballot boxes for him.

      Then after Obama is voted out of office (or impeached), Obama is going to get hauled before the Hague to answer for the drone attack that he ordered that killed 78 Somalians.

      • russtnail

        President’s having to answer to war crimes? Ha. Like justice exists. 

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Hasn’t happened to ‘W’, and his administration yet!

      • TFRX

        ACORN? You believe in that crap?

        The real hack in you has surfaced.

        I wonder how much the staff love that you’ve put “On Point” into your handle.

        • Gregg
          • Hidan

            Always check whoses rottenacorn is funded by. Just so happens to be funded by “The Employment Policies Institute”

            “The Employment Policies Institute (EPI) is one of several front groups created by Berman & Co., a Washington, DC public affairs firm owned by Rick Berman, who lobbies for the restaurant, hotel, alcoholic beverage and tobacco industries.”


          • Hidan

            Richard B. (Rick) Berman is a former labor management attorney
            and restaurant industry executive who currently works as a lobbyist for
            the food, alcoholic beverage and tobacco industries. He is the sole owner of Berman & Co., which sponsors many non-profit front groups that defend his corporate clients’ interests by attacking their critics, allowing his paying


            Rick Berman has earned the nicknames “Dr. Evil,” the “Conservatives’
            Weapon of Mass Destruction” and the “Astroturf Kingpin” for his repeated
            use of the strategy of forming non-profit front groups that advocate
            for the interests big business while shielding those same businesses
            from disclosing financial support for these efforts.

          • Hidan

            Anti-ACORN activity

            For several years, Berman has been fighting efforts by the voter registration/community organizing group ACORN (Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now)
            to raise the minimum wage at the state and federal levels. To assist
            with his efforts, Berman created a Web site, http://www.rottenacorn.com,
            slamming the group. Contact information on RottenACORN.com directs
            readers to the Employment Policies Institute,[11] a Berman front group which shares the same address as Berman’s lobbying business, Berman & Company.[12]

            In the fall of 2008, prior to the general election, a full-page, anti-ACORN ad appeared in the New York Times
            that accused ACORN of a list of abuses that would make the group appear
            hypocritical: intimidating and firing its own employees when they try
            to unionize, misappropriating millions of dollars from taxpayer-funded
            government grants and advocating minimum wage hikes while paying its own
            employees less than minimum wage. The ad did not indicate what person
            or organization had funded it.[13]In
            an October 29, 2008 article, the investigative journalism group
            ProPublica revealed that the ad and the Web site “RottenACORN.com” are
            funded by Rick Berman’s Employment Policies Institute, which has among
            its clients, the American Beverage Institute, a trade group for bars and restaurants.

          • Gregg

            I missed the part where they said ACORN was squeaky clean.

          • Gregg

            It’s a list of criminal (public record) indictments, confessions, ongoing investigations and convictions involving voter fraud. It’s a mile long. What possible difference does it make who compiled the data? What do you deny?


          • Conner44

            You have been owned by Hinden and you have long deserved it.

          • Gregg

            Who is “Hinden”?

        • Long Time On Point Listener

          Strike three Sherlock.

          Obama has been involved with A.C.O.R.N. for most of his political life.

          The very same A.C.O.R.N. that got busted for it’s deep involvement with a child-prostitution ring.

          The very same A.C.O.R.N. that a Democratic Congress voted to cut off all funding for.

  • Rob (in NY)

    Some Friday afternoon humor and a knock at the Occupy Wall Street crowd and the excesses of the Wall Street banks.        


  • http://www.facebook.com/lucytune Lucy Tenenbaum

    Tom, I enjoyed listening today to the part of your broadcast about the Republican debates. Thought I’d let you know that “mano a mano” doesn’t mean “man to man” but rather, “hand to hand”. I know most people think it means “man to man” but it doesn’t, and using it in that way doesn’t enhance the perception of your broadcast as a highly intelligent and well spoken forum. FYI is all. :) Lucy Tenenbaum

  • The man from UNKLE

    I have to say…. the first caller has really annoyed me…. “we are human beings” 

    Such high-minded nonsense. Such arrogance. 

    • Conner44

      Such irony or alternately such stupidity.
      I assume you were joking and as such fall into the first category.

      • The man from UNKLE

        actually no the latter. But I agree there is a wee bit of irony there, too. 

        “we are human beings” and then nothing…just nonsense about med students! what is that supposed to mean? Does she mean to assume that people dictate how revolutions are fought and won. 
        Her statement is so dismissive of the rest of human history and endeavour. The “we” is particularly annoying. By this she claims some sort of involvement in the Libyan revolution and at the same time abhors killing….

        But the high-minded part is to think that no blood was ever split on her or ancestors behalf…..
        This is the reality….. she was such a phony.

        Cheers Conner44!


  • wavre

    I never taught i will say this: Obama doesn’t care about Black Africa at all.
    He is not committed to peace and development in that part of the World.He never aknowledges the negative role played by the US, mostly in the cold war era against african nationalist leaders.He sides with this never ending  and long lasting culture of blunt predation by corporations on africans, that is fueling holocaust and rapes.(Congo)

    He is a corporate representative, cold, heartless and calculative.
     In Accra, he adviced the africans to be less corrupted in order to develop, but never recognized what entities does the corruptings(Halliburton ect…)

    He knows that being trigger happy with the Somalians, supporting Kagame and Museveni, who are plundering their neighbor the Congo for big corporations (five millions people dead for gold, Coltan, cobalt,timber…)will never provoke a significant outrage within the US.

    In order to deter criticism from the Birthers and protect the money interest, Obama is more than willing to order the killings of his fellows african brothers.

    So sad, but than again, he never had a true connection to the continent, or maybe there are some unresolved issues of getting back against an absentee father!? 

  • Hidan

    Can’t stand those auto-tron videos soooo boring and hardly funny. But conservative humor often falls flat.

    Far funnier,


    Of course this one got death threats from the teaparty.

  • Hidan

    SOS Clinton on wikileaks. oldie but good one. Fall more creative than that tried and boring auto-tron post from Rob.


    New one OWS Republicrat

    Bill O


  • RockTheMedia

    # of Votes
    1   Repeal of the Patriot Act -  8384 2   ELIMINATE “PERSONHOOD” LEGAL STATUS FOR CORPORATIONS – 10384 3   Forced Acquisition of the Federal Reserve for $1Billion  4627 4   Repeal the 16th Ammendment   – 2727 5   Re Investigate the Attacks of 9-11-2001  – 72357   (not kidding)6   What to name the Occupy Wall Street “Demands” -   6459 7   CONGRESS ENACT LEGISLATION TO PROTECT OUR DEMOCRACY BY REVERSING THE EFFECTS OF THE CITIZENS UNITED SUPREME COURT DECISION  – 6708 8   End the War On Drugs  – 6570 etc etc

  • RockTheMedia

    # of Votes
    1   Repeal of the Patriot Act -  8384
    3   Forced Acquisition of the Federal Reserve for $1Billion  4627
    4   Repeal the 16th Ammendment   – 2727
    5   Re Investigate the Attacks of 9-11-2001  – 72357   (not kidding)
    6   What to name the Occupy Wall Street “Demands” -   6459
    8   End the War On Drugs  – 6570

    • Zing

      We have plenty of Kaopectate  and toilet paper…we’d be happy to help…

  • Dave in CT

    Is the the NY Times version of your money our your life? Do the “right” thing, or else? Greek systemic corruption and profligacy needs to be bailed out be the generally sober and industrious German population? 
    Germany is just hoarding too much wealth that clearly it didn’t “earn all by itself”.

    Those greedy Democratic Socialist Pigs!

    Sounds familiar.

    The failure of the forced EU Market, like any forced bigger, “integrated” markets, that are a boon to “economists”, bankers, and one-world utiopians, in which completely different peoples with completely different values are coerced to try and act as one, is on great display.  Which had more chance of international, our European violence, Greece self-imploding on it’s own and having to figure out/clean up it’s own mess, or forcing Germans to do it against their own political will?  Hmmmm.

    Keep laughing and deriding the liberty, and diversity of ends ideas. It will be fun to see how we deal with the continued bail out madness and destruction of our US Dollar, and slowly building resentment at our loss of sovereignty and power as US citizens to stop the planners, as we continue to be forced to bail out the one-world dream.

    “Will Mrs. Merkel Wake Up in Time?”
    Published: October 21, 2011
    Helmut Schmidt, Germany’s 92-year-old former chancellor, sent a pointed message to his present-day successor, Angela Merkel, this week. Shortchanging Europe damages Germany, he warned in a speech in Frankfurt. “Of course the strong should help the weak,” he said, just as Germany was helped by America after World War II.We hope Mrs. Merkel heeds his advice. As of Friday, she was still blocking the European Union from bolstering its inadequate bailout fund.

    • Dave in CT

      “Instead, Mrs. Merkel has gone along with conventional German wisdom that the earnings of frugal, hard-working German taxpayers should remain at home. She has bowed to anti-Europe conservatives in her coalition, agreeing that all further German contributions to European rescue efforts will be submitted to Parliament in advance.”

      -Times editorial excerpt from above link.

      You can’t make this stuff up?! 

      Read that stuff slowly and clearly.

      Idea of keeping your rewards of frugality and hard work? Gone

      Idea of democratic decision making via Parliament? Gone

      Gone by who? Gone by the Authority of the NY Time editorial board and like-minded?.

      Maybe Germany just understands its history far better than the wannabe socialist dictators demanding compliance with their big experiments.


      • Dave in CT

        No comments on above? All fine and dandy?

        • nj

          No one wanted to interrupt. It looks like you’ve found the perfect audience for yourself.

          • Dave in CT

            Thanks for being such a great audience. Your own ideas regarding our current crisis/solutions are really stimulating.

  • Dave in CT

    Its sad, though predictable, that a focused anger and demand for accountability for the colluders from Washington and Wall St. that brought to our knees, has dissipated, and morphed into to simple-minded attack on the “rich” or capitalism.

    Of course the crisis was co-opted by the GOP (claiming the Tea Party interest) and the Dems (quietly claiming the OWS “side”), conveniently re-establishing the simple, black and white, divide and conquer, narrative that protects the true “bipartisan” elite who cooked everything up.

    When the heart of the issue was the nexus of Crony Government and Crony Bankers/Traders, ie. corrupted crony capitalism,  the effort to re-define our anger as EITHER anti-capitalism or anti-government, is just  classic.

    The ping-pong of the charade that is our current 2-party politics, continues to remove focus from where it should be, and ensures that the Nexus will never be threatened, while the polarized lemmings hurl red-herrings and invectives, or worse, each other.

    • Dave in CT

      I still believe standing up for liberty and a fierce rule of law is the best way to approach this.

      Why give up liberty?

      Why NOT demand classical rule of law (look up if need to vs. Discretionary rule of man)

      Do you really not think their are people, powers out their who find individual liberty and a fair, enforced rule of law, an existential threat to their designs on power and control?

  • JonS

    Tom Ashbrook–what is the job description for an “On Point news analyst”?   Too often Jack Beatty makes it sound like you need to be a combination of David Plouffe and EJ “Baghdad Bob ” Dionne. Here’s my vote that you invite Major Garrett more often to your show. He truly exemplifies “fair and balanced” news analysis.

  • Hidan


    objective of Wolf PAC will be to raise money and raise an army for the
    sole purpose of passing this amendment. We need a Constitutional
    revolution to get unlimited corporate money out of politics. Please join
    us and help retake our democracy.

    28th Amendment

    are not people. They have none of the Constitutional rights of human
    beings. Corporations are not allowed to give money to any politician,
    directly or indirectly. No politician can raise over $100 from any
    person or entity. All elections must be publicly financed.

    • Conner44

      Right On

      • Gregg

        Not so much.

  • Hidan

    Occupy Wall Street Commercial

    Tea Party Commercial

    Compare and contrast.

  • Long Time On Point Listener

    Don’t forget,

    it was the current War-Monger-in-Chief who is currently squatting in the White House, who took us to war in Libya without consulting the Congress.

    Obama claimed that the U.N. gave him the authority to go to war in Libya.

    Did the U.N. give Obama the right to kill 78 Somalians with a drone?

  • Hidan
  • Hidan

    A video featuring Sgt. Shamar Thomas has gone viral on YouTube. In the
    video, Sgt. Thomas confronts members of the NYPD about how the cops have
    been treating protesters. He tells the police that if they want to
    fight, they should go to Iraq and Afghanistan. Sgt. Shamar Thomas, Iraq
    war veteran, tells us why he felt he had to speak out and tells us what
    he thinks about the the troops coming home.


    Dude speaks up against the Police abusing the protestors.

  • Hidan

    Could Onpoint do a show on Stop and Frisk in NY?


    The NYPD’s stop-and-frisk practices raise serious concerns over
    racial profiling, illegal stops and privacy rights. The Department’s own
    reports on its stop-and-frisk activity confirm what many people in
    communities of color across the city have long known: The police are
    stopping hundreds of thousands of law abiding New Yorkers every year,
    and the vast majority are black and Latino.

    An analysis by the NYCLU revealed that about 3 million innocent New
    Yorkers were subjected to police stops and street interrogations from
    2004 through 2010, and that black and Latino communities continue to be
    the overwhelming target of these tactics. Nearly nine out of 10
    stopped-and-frisked New Yorkers have been completely innocent, according
    to the NYPD’s own reports

    During the first six months of 2011, 362,150 New Yorkers were stopped by the police.

    317,376 were totally innocent (88 percent)

    184,186 were black (51 percent)

    119,853 were Latino (33 percent)

    33,805 were white (9 percent)

  • FireFromHeaven

    It is a class war.

    The war between the people who have some class (morals, ethics, a conscience and somewhat impartial sense of justice)
    and those who don’t (corruptors, winners at any cost, power possessing parasites who work all day scheming, by any means, to splash some of the money onto them that flows through the river of currency that they work next to.  They think that because they work next to this river that they are a god, a creator, of great value, unlike someone who works next to a coal seam who is a fool and a beast of burden.
    But a gods work is never done, and while the miners are sleeping off their latest alcohol induced anesthesia, the gods must be awake and travel to the whorehouse and make their value-bribes (campaign contributions) and pay-off the panderers, and pimps (lobbyists, PACs, and political brokers, so that what’s your’s eventually, incrementally, but irreversibly, all becomes his, by law.  And he knows he has been doing a dandy job of it, and he is right.

  • JFK

    “These OWS people are a diverse lot, but for their intelligence and compassion. These are the people that the future must grow out of — if there is to be any future at all.” — John Fitzgerald Kennedy

    • Fredlinskip

      Didn’t realize the protesters had been occupying Wall St since Kennedy years. They’ve aged gracefully.
      If you’re equating the OWS’ers to the 60′s protesters than I’d have to say the “future” has fallen woefully short of John K visions. 

  • Long Time On Point Listener

    If the current War-Monger-in-Chief who is currently squatting in the White House really on the side of OWS as he claims,

    does that mean Obama will stop accepting those big checks from Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan?

    Don’t hold your breath.

    • ToLittleToLate

      Incumbents will say and do anything when they are trying to get re-elected. 

  • Dee

    There is no excusing the Ohio’s police’s bruatity against the animals.

    The Chief’s argument that it was getting to be night fall and the officers had to act is –BS. It seems to me, this would be all the more reason for restaint as people wouldn’t be in the area.

    There was plenty of time to seal off the road and call in a wildlife
    service to address the problem of the lose animals…Dee

    P. S. I was in a Dunkin Donuts the following morning when this item came on the news. People were rightly in an uproar over the police’s bruatity. Shame on those in the media for accepting the police’s justi-
    fication for their opening fire. They will Never Live down their brutality
    to those animals–who needed care and attention….

  • Long Time On Point Listener

    U.S. installed puppet, President Hamid Karzai,

    has said Afghanistan will side with Pakistan if the U.S. launches a war against the country.

    Iran, not Pakistan appears to be the next item on the menu for our War-Monger-in-Chief,

    that is if you believe Obama’s ridiculous claim last week that a dope-smoking, used car salesman from Texas tried to blow up the Saudi embassy in D.C., on orders from the Iranian goverment.

  • Dslevy212

    15 min on Libya. Who cares? Let’s talk about the American economy, politics, the debt, and the 2012 election.

  • http://www.m2mdaily.com/m2m-editorials/m2m-or-m-to-m/ m to m

    Really gread read for your blog it’s very Important news for us which I got your page…..

  • http://www.bevineliving.com/ lounge chair

    Well this is really interesting post

Aug 21, 2014
In this November 2012, file photo, posted on the website freejamesfoley.org, shows American journalist James Foley while covering the civil war in Aleppo, Syria. In a horrifying act of revenge for U.S. airstrikes in northern Iraq, militants with the Islamic State extremist group have beheaded Foley — and are threatening to kill another hostage, U.S. officials say. (AP)

An American is beheaded. We’ll look at the ferocity of ISIS, and what to do about it.

Aug 21, 2014
Jen Joyce, a community manager for the Uber rideshare service, works on a laptop before a meeting of the Seattle City Council, Monday, March 17, 2014, at City Hall in Seattle. (AP)

We’ll look at workers trying to live and make a living in the age of TaskRabbit and computer-driven work schedules.

Aug 20, 2014
In this Oct. 21, 2013 file photo, a monarch butterfly lands on a confetti lantana plant in San Antonio. A half-century ago Monarch butterflies, tired, hungry and bursting to lay eggs, found plenty of nourishment flying across Texas. Native white-flowering balls of antelope milkweed covered grasslands, growing alongside nectar-filled wildflowers. But now, these orange-and-black winged butterflies find mostly buildings, manicured lawns and toxic, pesticide-filled plants. (AP)

This year’s monarch butterfly migration is the smallest ever recorded. We’ll ask why. It’s a big story. Plus: how climate change is creating new hybridized species.

Aug 20, 2014
A man holds his hands up in the street after a standoff with police Monday, Aug. 18, 2014, during a protest for Michael Brown, who was killed by a police officer Aug. 9 in Ferguson, Mo. (AP)

A deep read on Ferguson, Missouri and what we’re seeing about race, class, hope and fear in America.

On Point Blog
On Point Blog
Your (Weird? Wonderful? Wacky?) Roommate Stories
Tuesday, Aug 19, 2014

We asked, and you delivered: some of the best roommate stories from across our many listener input channels.

More »
1 Comment
Our Week In The Web (August 15, 2014)
Friday, Aug 15, 2014

On Pinterest, Thomas the Tank Engine and surprising population trends from around the country. Also, words on why we respond to your words, tweets and Facebook posts.

More »
Nickel Creek Plays Three Songs LIVE For On Point
Wednesday, Aug 13, 2014

Nickel Creek shares three live (well, mostly) tracks from their interview with On Point Radio.

More »