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TODAY IS SATURDAY, MAY 25, 2013

October 20, 2011 at 10:00 AM

The End Of The Gadhafi Era?

With Jane Clayson in for Tom Ashbrook

We’re following latest developments out of Libya and reports that Colonel Gadhafi has been killed or captured.

Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi talks during a ceremony to mark the 40th anniversary of the evacuation of the American military bases in the country, in Tripoli, Libya (AP)

Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi talks during a ceremony to mark the 40th anniversary of the evacuation of the American military bases in the country, in Tripoli, Libya (AP)

It’s a chaotic situation on the ground today in Libya. A swirl of unconfirmed reports burst onto the live news channels early this morning –Gadhafi captured, Gadhafi injured, Gadhafi killed—and they’ve slowly coalesced into one big story.

The long-running regime of Colonel Moammar Gadhafi is over. One more domino in the Arab Spring has fallen. A long bloody uprising later, a NATO mini-war later, and the oil-rich country has a shot at a fresh start.

This hour On Point: The fall of Gadhafi.

-Jane Clayson

Guests

Vivienne Walt, correspondent reporting from Tripoli for Time Magazine.

Robin Wright, who has covered the Middle East since 1973, is a scholar at the U.S. Institute of Peace. She’s author of Rock the Casbah: Rage and Rebellion across the Islamic World.”

Ben Wedeman, senior international correspondent for CNN.

Naeem Gheriany, longtime Libyan-American dissident.

From The Reading List

Reuters “Former Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi died of wounds suffered on Thursday as fighters battling to complete an eight-month-old uprising against his rule overran his hometown Sirte, Libya’s interim rulers said.”

Uva_mla

With all those fabulous uniforms I imagine Gadhafi singing this number http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye7PIyIcCro …definitely an end of an era.
- Chris B
  
  Yeah, the costumes were unbeatable! I forget if it was Stewart or Colbert who characterized Gadhafi as, “the Lady Gaga of insane dictators”.
  - TFRX
    
    Lady Gaga?
    
    I may be older than you; in a previous decade the discussion was “Who copied who, Gadhafi or Michael Jackson?”
    - TFRX
      
      (Ugh on me. H/t to John who said so already.)
    - Modavations
      
      My condolences on your loss
      - TFRX
        
        It takes a lot of something to be so incoherent in exactly five words which form a sentence.
        
        What do you mean? That I’m mourning this guy’s death?
ips

Breaking news and it’s already on ON POINT! Tom Ashbrook and your shows staff are incredible! Looking forward to the program today.
- Drew You Too
  
  I am also impressed how on the ball On Point is. However, I agree with Cory’s comment above that perhaps this time they might be pouncing on the wrong ball. Hope they got him (Gadhafi), nuff said. I was really looking forward to the immigration discussion, I doubt I’m the only one who feels it would have been far more relevant and carried the potential to be much more productive.
CORY

I prefered the topic you jettisoned to this one. What is there to talk about? Khaddafy/Ghaddafi/Qadafi has been out of power for months. The only difference is we have a ghoulish corpse to leak photos of. Libya’s future? A small poorly governed state in Africa. Never seen one of those before. I will miss his wardrobe though. He was like all four of the Village People in one man!
- Anonymous
  
  I missed it earlier — what was the intended topic?
  
  Neil
  - nj
    
    Deportations from the U.S., if i remember correctly.
    - Modavations
      
      CNN said Mexicans are the hardest workers in the world and the Belgians,the biggest slugs.We spend 500bill.on Welfare and 28bill.on illegals.The Dem.party is in the business of keeping poor people poor.Free your Chattel.Now,back to Ghaddafy.
- Modavations
  
  Another mourner!!!
  - CORY
    
    Huh?
- Brett
  
  Okay, I’m stealing the “Village People in one man” line; I just thought I’d tell you straight up. I’ll only use it in small circles, and I might even give you credit, I promise!
wauch

OK is this now the end of US Occupation of Northeastern Africa era once and for all? For a Nobel Peace Prize winner Obama sure has expanded our reach militarily into Uganda, Sudan, Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, etc. etc. etc.
- Dpweber83
  
  Since when is Libya in northeastern Africa?
  
  More to the point, are you upset with this result?
  
  -dan
  Boston, MA
  - nj
    
    Better have another cup of coffee, there, Dan.
    
    http://travel.nationalgeographic.com/travel/countries/libya-map/
  - Anonymous
    
    Like forever. Have you ever looked at a world map?
    - Dpweber83
      
      Yeah, I have. Are you going to tell me with a straight face that Tripoli is in “northeastern” Africa???
      
      -dan
      Boston, MA
- TheGamePlan
  
  Nope. This is just a regime change.
  
  That’s why the elites gave ‘BHO’ the prize before he did anything. They already knew what was going to be accomplished.
  
  His fictional ascendancy and the mythological, messianic marketing of his persona was part of the elite process of playing puppeteer.
  
  The ‘dictators of decades’ are not falling like dominoes because of a groundswell of ‘democracy’ and twitter. They are falling because that’s the geopolitcal game plan.
Anonymous

Is it true that Michael Jackson and Gadhafi had the same tailor?
- http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp
  
  Did you ever see the two of them together? Perhaps they were one in the same. Look for Jackson’s doctor to try that as a defense.
Dpweber83

Anyone still want to say that Obama was either wrong or acting illegally in Libya?

Anyone?

-dan
Boston, MA
- nj
  
  Yeah, sure, i’ll bite.
  
  So spending a billion dollars meddling in an oil-rich region under dubious legality is fine as long as, sooner or later, a dictator bites the dust?Ever stop to ask yourself why Libya, and not any one of half a dozen or so repressive governments got Obama’s special treatment?
  
  I love how easily the Obamabots fall in line behind their guy.
  - http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp
    
    The Libyans asked for our help. We gave air support. This was a good deed on the cheap. What’s your objection?
    - Modavations
      
      They’re his soul mates.You know,”fellow travelers”
    - http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso
      
      Hey Greg,
      
      “The Libyans” ???? Which Libyans exactly?? Or should I ask: specifically what tribe that the US and UK supported to attack the other, to destabilize a country (see Iraq) and create perpetual infighting. Worked very well on native-americans… still working well in the Balkans and Middle East.
      
      “Good deed on the cheap” ???? You are the most uninformed poster I have come across. Its like you mimic the Fox news clowns –
      completely unaware of the real dynamics of what transpired in Libya, which has to do with OIL, ISRAEL, DOLLARS, and WORLD BANK/IMF loan sharking.
      - http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp
        
        You left out 9/11.
      - Modavations
        
        You have a nice singing voice,for an anti-semetic
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso
        
        Anti-semetism?? The last bullet in your holster cowboy? Evidently you ran out of logic and reasoning to support your argument.
        
        We’ll add to the last refuge of a scoundrel: 1. Patriotism, 2. “so prove it” 3. Accusation of Anti-semetism.
      - http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp
        
        You frequently blather about how the Israelis (read Jews) control our media, Congress, and on and on. You tell us that the Israelis (read Jews) caused 9/11. Does that count as evidence?
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso
        
        Hey Greg Camp, ANOTHER COWBOY SHOOTS HIS LAST BULLET.
        
        So your last bullet as well is to state unsupported lies, misquotes, assumptions and accusations of anti-semetism ??
        
        Do us all a favor Greg, and in your very next post, share with all of us YOUR particular definition of “anti-semetism”.
      - http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp
        
        I’m referring to your comments. Read what I just wrote to you. Anti-Semitism is the belief that Jews are by nature evil or inferior. You’ve made comments that hint at such a belief.
        
        And in case you’re wondering, I have plenty of ammunition in reserve.
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso
        
        So Greg, since this blog is apparently open to reckless presumption, I believe you’ve made comments that hint that you are a pedophile.
        
        I do not mind your criticisms. I do mind when I am blatantly misquoted and presumed of hatred to any particular people, as distinguished from criticism.
        
        If you want to be the thought police, you missed your chance to join the Cheka…its been disbanded.
      - http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp
        
        I suppose that you’re ready to back that accusation up?
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso
        
        You can’t back a “HINT”.
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso
        
        Greg, you obviously fail to see the similarity in my obviously unsupported accusation. I only hope its as false as your outright false quotes and presumption of me.
      - Modavations
        
        Dude,like pornography,you know it when you see it and your a bigot
      - SmutMan
        
        Like knowing a troll when you see it.
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso
        
        Hey Modivations, Are you still on the clock or are you just an intern?
      - AntiZionist
        
        “The bottom line is that AIPAC, a de facto agent for a foreign
        government, has a stranglehold on Congress, with the result that US
        policy towards Israel is not debated there, even though that policy has
        important consequences for the entire world.”
        
        http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/john-mearsheimer/the-israel-lobby
      - TheTrollPolice
        
        I knew you and ‘ArnoldWalker’ were one and the same.
        
        The only other persona here to ever lay the not-applicable, anti-semetic, nonsensical charge.
        
        And ‘zing’ is your other moniker as well. Your rudeness can’t be contained and becomes obvious.
        
        Your repetitive style of sniping ‘comments’ and nasty retorts is unmistakable.
        
        Your just a witless troll with many monikers.
      - Modavations
        
        They’re not my alternative “nom de guerres”,they’re my Dopplegangers.Guess what,in the USA alone,there’s another 150mill.Free men and we all sound the same.It’s all so confusing
      - http://www.richardsnotes.org Richard
        
        If this comment section was moderated onPoint could block the IP and get rid of all of them at once.
    - nj
      
      Are you really this naive, or are you just being pointlesssly provocative?
      
      Executive-directed military action without Congressional authorization against a country that was no direct threat to the United States at a cost of at least a billion dollars when serious needs here are going unmet and the deficit is spiraling.Nope, no issues there.Other Mid-east, repressive dictatorships (Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Bahrain) get U.S. aid and support. Ask yourself why and get back to us.
      - http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp
        
        I’ll get back to you right now. Congress gave authorization to our help, and our help was specifically requested. When a dictator falls, Americans should celebrate. As long as we don’t abandon the country now, things can turn out well.
      - nj
        
        Please cite the legislation which authorized the military action in Libya. Don’t bother with S. Res. 85.
        
        And, not surprisingly, you didn’t answer the question about why we continue to support other mid-East dictatorships.
      - http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp
        
        And what’s wrong with the act that you cited? We don’t declare war anymore, thanks to the War Powers Act.
        
        Our support for other dictatorships comes from cowardice. I’m looking forward to the same event in Saudi Arabia, et al.
      - Steve__T
        
        We need to concentrate on our own dictators and leave others alone.
      - http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp
        
        Which dictators would that be?
      - Anonymous
        
        Congress or Senate pick one.
      - http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp
        
        You’ve heard of elections?
      - Anonymous
        
        Greg that was a reply I’d expect from Modavations, is it caching? I know you to be a lot more intelligent, and engaging in discussions.
      - http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp
        
        We elect our representatives. If you don’t like the politicians, vote them out.
      - Steve__T
        
        Trust me I try.
      - Dpweber83
        
        So, by “dictators,” you mean “duly elected officials”?
        
        “Anytime you fail to do what your constituents need, and do what you think is better your a dictator”
        
        Jesus H, dude, you are breathtakingly ignorant. Here, read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Burke
        
        -dan
        Boston, MA
      - Steve__T
        
        I’m ignorant and you give a link to Edmund Burke an English member of Parliament in the 1700′s? What does that have to do with our so called elected officials today, or the conversation you interrupted? You fail. Class dismissed!
      - Dpweber83
        
        “What does that have to do with our so called elected officials today”
        
        Burke argues that elected officials in a republican system of government ought to vote based on their conscience and best judgment, not the passions of their constituents. And if you had even a clue who Burke was, I wouldn’t have had to explain that to you.
        
        You’ve used “Class dismissed” as a sign off twice now with me—it’s not original, it’s not clever, and based on the fact that you just admitted that you have no idea who the father of modern-day small-c conservative thought is, I don’t know where you get off dismissing class. Typically, the students don’t decide when class is dismissed.
        
        -dan
        Boston, MA
      - nj
        
        Show us where S. 85 authorizes or endorses the use of force. Give the a specific citations. Go ahead, we’ll wait.
      - nj
        
        : : : *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* : : :
      - WiseUp
        
        They were ‘Our’ dictators. That is ‘Our’ foreign policy.
        ‘We’ put them there. ‘We’ keep them there.
        And now, ‘We’ want a regime change.
        There is nothing for us to celebrate.
        What will fill the void will be worse.
      - Dpweber83
        
        -”They were ‘Our’ dictators.”
        
        Since when was Qaddafi “our” dictator? Was that before or after we bombed his house in the ’80s?
        
        -”‘We’ put them there.”
        
        Not in Qaddafi’s case.
        
        -”And now, ‘We’ want a regime change.”
        
        “We” is a funny way of spelling “the people of Libya.”
        
        -”There is nothing for us to celebrate.”
        
        Tell that to the families who lost loved ones to Qaddafi’s security services.
        
        -”What will fill the void will be worse.”
        
        I’ll give you $100 if I can look into that crystal ball of yours for two minutes.
        
        -dan
        Boston, MA
      - WiseUp
        
        Do an internet search:
        
        CIA Qaddafi
        Lockerbie CIA Iran-Contra
        Muslim Brotherhood Fascism
      - Dpweber83
        
        You’re aware that you can put links into the comment field, right?
        
        -dan
        Boston, MA
      - Dpweber83
        
        “Ask yourself why and get back to us.”
        
        Because not all countries are created equal, and it’s foolish to treat every country exactly the same way? Because Bahrain lets the U.S. Navy dock and refuel there, while Libya sponsored the Lockerbie bombing? Because al Qaeda’s active in Yemen? Because the Saudi people didn’t rise up in armed rebellion against the royal family? Shall I continue?What, exactly, is your point?
        
        -dan
        Boston, MA
      - nj
        
        There’s your principled Obama supporter. Supporting repressive dictators is fine as long as we get something out of the deal.
        
        God help us.
      - Dpweber83
        
        What are you talking about!? Why do you insist that all “dictators” should be treated equally?
        
        -dan
        Boston, MA
    - Anonymous
      
      Our help or do you mean the UN.
      - http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp
        
        It was NATO, not the U.N.
      - Anonymous
        
        Oh so you do know it was not directly the US.
      - http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp
        
        We were actively involved, as were the French and the British.
      - Anonymous
        
        They are a part of NATO, your point?
      - Anonymous
        
        NATO is an Alliance that consists of 28 independent member countries.
        Why did we have to put our two cents in? We were already involved in two other conflicts costing us big money and lives. Why more just because we were in the area?
      - Dpweber83
        
        Jesus H., dude, at 11:49 you were convinced the UN had bombed Qaddafi’s military, and now you’re trying to…I don’t even know what you’re trying to do.
        
        You’re outclassed in this debate.
        
        -dan
        Boston, MA
      - Steve__T
        
        Do you know how to read? Do you understand inference? If so re read my post, all of them, then go away. Don”t try to put words in my mouth. The next time you see adults having a conversation don’t but in. Class dismissed.
      - Dpweber83
        
        If you’re going to position yourself as an adult, I’d expect you to be able to differentiate between “but” and “butt.”
        
        -dan
        Boston, MA
      - Dpweber83
        
        You and your facts!
        
        -dan
        Boston, MA
      - Modavations
        
        Any update on UN Rape gangs.What a crew they are
  - American #1234
    
    And to add to what Greg has said not one American was killed to do this..come on give props where props are due..I love how easily Obamahaters can be blind to anything good.
  - Modavations
    
    And Mao,and Hitler,and Pol Pot,and Che.They were just misunderstood
    - nj
      
      That’s lame, even for you.
  - The man from UNKLE
    
    because Libya is politically and geographically isolated within and by the “Arab World” itself. This sends a clear signal to other regimes in nations like Iran, Syria, Yemen and Bahrain (which are politically and geographically crucial)….. maybe to all of them.
    
    Also, it’s hardly meddling… remember the criticism Obama got for stalling by other foreign policy guys (John McCain was one)…. the US only got involved when the revolution was well under way and the volition of the free Libyans was clearly evident.
  - Dpweber83
    
    “Ever stop to ask yourself why Libya, and not any one of half a dozen or so repressive governments got Obama’s special treatment?”
    
    Yeah, I have: it’s because Libya’s economy is intimately tied up with the economies of several important NATO allies. They said as much.
    
    So, just to be clear, you *are* arguing with the results here, right? Or are you just being argumentative because Obama can claim credit for something going right somewhere in the world?
    
    -dan
    Boston, MA
- Modavations
  
  Mr.Obama take a bow.Obama 2,punk tyrants 0
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1816544 Dan Trindade

Sic Semper Tyrannis! Vivat Populus! Vivat Democracy!
- Modavations
  
  right on bro.Next at bat,Sn.Assad
Long Time On Point Listener

“An oil-rich country has a shot at fresh air”??

The only reason Gadhafi was over-thrown was because Libya would no longer accept payments for Libyan crude oil of near-worthless dollars from the for-profit, privately-owned, Federal Reserve banking cartel.
- Anonymous
  
  After all, EVERY DAY, the U.S. trade deficit of nearly $2 billion is covered by people in foreign countries accepting that much money in U.S. Treasury dollar-denominated currency.
Modavations

To Sn.Ulttrax,my soul mate ,G.Orwell and I ,wish to extend condolences on the loss of another of your heroes.May we now turn our attention to the most heinous of them all,your esteemed brother,Herr Assad
- CORY
  
  Huh?
jim

I understand Gaddafi is a “bad” guy and a despot. but i am quite terrible by the UN to pick sides in a civil war. if the US were to be in a civil war does the UN have the rights to take sides? note: civil war in this country in not inconceivable. just look at our politicians from both aisles, the tea party radicals, and the protests in wall street.
- http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp
  
  It’s a question of power. The U.N. would have a hard time doing anything to us. Besides, we’d just veto interference.
http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

I’ve long figured that Gadafi would be a good host for a talk show. Whenever he wasn’t feeling well, Hugo Chavez could sit in for him.
Modavations

If we would just “drill baby drill”,we could put 50,000 to work and turn or backs,once and for all,on the tyrants.
- nj
  
  Add to the list of things that Moda-troll is more than a little fuzzy about: the amount and geographic distribution of remaining petroleum reserves.
http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

Is there any point in observing that we don’t have enough oil to make “drill, baby, drill” worth the time?
- TFRX
  
  Well, it keeps the place from sounding like a mainstream-media-run GOP pep rally debate.
  - TFRX
    
    …well, that formats much better in other blogs. You’ll have to picture the strikethroughs.
    - nj
      
      It’s worked for me here before. Try using just “s” instead of spelling it out.
      - TFRX
        
        Thanks. I’ll try it someday.
- Modavations
  
  We have 200 years worth.We should have invaded Alberta
- Modavations
  
  Oil rich,North or S.Dakaota ,has an unemployment rate of 3.6%.The unemployement rate in the Dem.ointrolled ghettos is over 25%.For kids,it’s 50%
Heaviest Cat

He was just trying to find himself(sob). May he rest in Peace
Drew You Too

What a waste of time. I’m turning off On Point (which I have never done before) and logging off. Hope everyone has a good day.
- Modavations
  
  Idle Threats
- Drew You Too
  
  I suppose I should have been more specific as to avoid unintentionally slighting On Point’s efforts. I said “waste of time” only because when I heard the news about Gadhafi this morning that there would be a constant barrage of coverage on that subject all day long. I felt that On Point’s efforts would have been better served if they had stuck with the story (deportations) they initially had scheduled. I am extremely grateful to the On Point staff for all the hard work they do for us every day. Just thought about it after a long day of repetitive media coverage and felt I should apologize. Thanks again for everything you do On Point, keep up the great work.
RockTheMedia

http://www.HumanGenome.org/FBI
- http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp
  
  Why do you and your buddies keep posting this junk?
  - RockTheMedia
    
    yes, US Government junk …. courtesy of FBI Agents
    Hard working, excellent guys, protecting us
    And their investigation is called “junk”???????????????????????
  - RockTheMedia
    
    You have to protect Israel. You just cannot help it.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso

Yes, the islamists and the tribals leaders are going to embrace Hillary Clinton with bear hugs, and allow the US to open bases and scour Lybia to destroy all of their weapons. All the tribes will in unison recognize the state of Israel, and agree to resume low priced oil exports. They will go on to accept billions in IMF loans to repair all the damage that NATO caused. Then they will embrace democracy and let their daughters watch MTV and Desperate Housewives. It will truly be the New Libya. BTW Keep dreaming.
- http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp
  
  Ah, that’s why you are sorry to see Gadafi go. He supported radical Palestinians.
  - http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso
    
    Is that why Israeli supplied Ghaddafi with weapons and support ?
    - Guest
      
      Is it why you are so adept in asking loaded questions and so much in backing up you’re outlandish, absolutists views?
      - Guest
        
        *and NOT so much*
      - Hidan
        
        blah blah blah says the guy that supports extremist like Nadia Matar who calls for the ethic cleansing of palestinians of course in a NY synagogue no doubt.
        
        Go back to your hole troll.
      - Plushkin
        
        there were palis to cleanse in NY synagogue? Fascinating!
      - BanHidan
        
        Blow yourself up and the horse you rode on.
  - Modavations
    
    The only country in the world ,that is entirely on Welfare.Palestinian citizens of Isreal, have many more rights
    - http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso
      
      Welfare??? No country in the world get more subsidized free money from the USA than does Israel. More aid than any other country and per capita individual Israelis far out do the Palestinians and any other person on the planet.
      - Guest
        
        This is a blatant lie, with no shred of evidence to support the idiocy of the claim. Afghanistan and Iraq dominate the list of aid recipients for the last 4 years, in all aspects.
      - GMG
        
        True, Iraq and Afganistan are right up there, but we are not occupying Israel. I think this fact makes Paulo’s statement fairly reasonable. Here are the numbers:
        
        http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s1299.pdf
      - Plushkin
        
        are you for real GMG? US arms every single country in the region to the teeth. Surely a modicum of help to Israel is due as the very same counties are bent on destroying Jewish state just like idiot-in-chief Hidan akaMichael aka Independent Internet and delusional Caruso.
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso
        
        Sure, when most of that US money goes into paying for armaments, corrupt officials and warlords. I guess building a school here and there could count for something.
      - Modavations
        
        I like your singing voice,but Palestine has the distiction of being 95% Welfarized.The Palestinians of Isreal,have far more freedom, then their enslaved brethren
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Paolo-Caruso/1778940602 Paolo Caruso
        
        Are you serious Modavation???
        
        Embargoes, road blocks, 30 foot concrete walls, does not favor private enterprise.
        
        The Cherokee and other native american indian tribes did not need welfare before their lands were taken from them.
        
        Your premise of welfare is absurd. Prisoners in their own land are typically at cost to the occupiers.
      - Modavations
        
        If you’d quit threaterning destruction of Isreal,with every breath,maybe you’d establish a viable state.Give Peace a chance bro.
      - Hidan
        
        Don’t worry about Guest aka Plushan aka Plushan2 aka Pirozhkov aka Guest, He’s a kamikazeTroll whoses willing to sacrifice himself to stop you from posting.
        
        an typical nasty zionist
      - Plushkin
        
        It is better to stand for Zionism than be a liberal fruity loop with no brain whatsoever. Just my opinion. Yeah and go complain about ‘ad hom [sic]‘, imbecile.
      - Guest
        
        Oh shut up, islamist mouthpiece. Go blow yourself up.
http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

What law and order existed during Gadafi’s rule? If you were a Gadafi groupie, your life was orderly. Otherwise, not so much.
http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

Interesting that the next hour is on ADHD. The poor guy just needed happy pills.
Rmantreasian

Could Gaddafi been schizophrenic
- Heaviest Cat
  
  He was just trying to find himself(sob)
notafeminista

Y’know politics aside, I always thought this guy found a “Dictatorus R Us” shop somewhere and said, “Give me one of everything” – and then put it all on his uniforms.
- TheTrollPolice
  
  It’s about time you showed up. We hardly missed you and your cohort, ‘GretchenMo’.
  
  Just another ‘modavations’-like troll in disguise. Ready to dilute or divert any thread of discussion with a smarmy, witless, unsupported, reactionary comment.
  
  Go back to listening to the Laura Ingraham show where you belong.
  - Modavations
    
    I hope you “righties” know we’re all the same guy.I just got off the phone with the ACLU.They asked me if Ghadaffi had been Marandized(?).I said,in NPR’s native tongue,NYET.They claimed they could have got him off.I told them,we still have Herr Assad
CORY

I’ve read every comment so far, and I’ll stand by my initial post. We should have stuck with the original topic. Nothing to see here! Move along!!
- nj
  
  Yep.
  - Drew You Too
    
    Wait till you wake up and see the story tomorrow.
Brett

Gadhafi should have been a Rap star or Broadway singer…”Live, on Broadway, Muammar Gadhafi IS Tevye! In Fiddler on the Roof!” –No, wait, now that I think about it, that would have never happened…never mind…I have to say, in the photo above, he looks a lot like a hotel doorman. And what was up with that “Colonel” business? Seems like he would have gone for the “General” title…
- Roy Mac
  
  He was a colonel in the Libyan army–at that tender age–when he organized the coup in 69. Guess he figured he was already the highest-ranking officer in the country, so, Who cares? But nobody in the Libyan army ever rose above the rank of Lt. Col. since. There will no likely be dozens of generals by tomorrow morning.
  - Brett
    
    I know, that whole limiting rank thing was very revealing…the word “pathology” comes to mind.
Long Time On Point Listener

Marking foreign leaders for death is a war crime.
�
President Obama ordered the killing of Gadhafi. Obama must be arrested and tried as a war criminal.
- JP
  
  Quote from Andrew Sullivan
  
  To rid the world of Osama bin Laden, Anwar al-Awlaki and Moammar Qaddafi within six months: if Obama were a Republican, he’d be on Mount Rushmore by now.
  
  Bush and Saddam – One Trillion dollars and thousands of US lives.
  
  Obama and Qaddafi – One Billion dollars and zero US lives.
  
  http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/10/a-tale-of-two-presidents.html
  - William
    
    Which war was approved by the Congress?
    - JP
      
      Do you mean, which war was Congress LIED TO about?
      - Modavations
        
        Don’t forget Clinton’s CIA chief ,whispering in Bush’s ear it’s a slam dunk Mr.President”
    - TensYearsAfter
      
      We just missed our 10 year anniversary.
      
      Iraq was not a war. It was an authorization of the use of military force approved by a resolution in congress. (And it’s still going on to this day.)
      
      126 (61%) of 208 Democratic Representatives voted against the resolution.
      
      6 of 223 Republican Representatives voted against the resolution
      The only Independent Representative voted against the resolution
      
      http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/bliraqreshouse.htm
      
      On 10/11/02 Senate vote: yea: 77 nea: 23
      
      http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=s2002-237
      - Modavations
        
        Don’t forget the 150ish UN warnings
  - ThanksforNothing
    
    Both political actions are still illegal no matter what the cost.
    
    What about the people of Iraq and Libya and all of their lives lost or ruined?
    
    I know… we were doing them a favor when we put those dictators in power and now we are doing them a favor when we take them out.
- BeenALongTime
  
  War crimes? It’s just the way we roll, now.
  
  See you in the Hague – not.
  
  (These comments are made with extreme sarcasm and sadness.)
  - Modavations
    
    Ok kids,no cheating now.Where is the Hague?
- Roy Mac
  
  Got some citations for those?
  - Treachery
    
    Here you go Roy Mac (In case you didn’t see it above):
    
    A state that uses “treachery” to kill an enemy may be guilty of war crimes. Article 23 of the Hague Convention IV of 1907 provides that “it is especially forbidden . . . to kill or wound treacherously, individuals belonging to the hostile nation or army.” Treachery is usually defined as a breach of confidence, such as an attack on an individual who believes that there is no need to fear the attacker.
    
    http://www.enotes.com/genocide-encyclopedia/assassination
JP

Quote from Andrew SullivanTo rid the world of Osama bin Laden, Anwar al-Awlaki and Moammar Qaddafi within six months: if Obama were a Republican, he’d be on Mount Rushmore by now.
Bush and Saddam – One Trillion dollars and thousands of US lives.

Obama and Qaddafi – One Billion dollars and zero US lives.

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/10/a-tale-of-two-presidents.html
- TalkAboutHypocrites
  
  So, as long as your going after a sovereign nation’s leader, it’s okay to kill some of their civilians when they just happen to get in the way or we make a tactical error.
  
  Let me know how you can justify killing innocent people.
  
  Collateral damage?
  - JP
    
    I stopped hearing about all the collateral damage after Bush left office… Obama has bee tyhe OPPOSITE of Cheney/Bush in this regard… that is, COMPETENT.
    - TrollAlert
      
      Where can I get a pair of your rose-colored glasses?
      
      No on can be this ignorant. I think your an Obama troll.
      
      You will be ignored from now on.
    - JP
      
      BTW, why do you keep posting under different names?
      
      … no one gives your assertions greater weight based on your fake, lame attempt to look like several opinions instead of one.
      - TrollAlert
        
        Nothing is no longer as lame as JP
      - JP
        
        … another conservative genius.
      - Modavations
        
        Who is a doppleganger of?
- Heaviest Cat
  
  this ride’em cowboy rhetoric throws no light on anything.
SomeExplaining

Anyone else think it’s kind of strange how NPR and On Point’s programming was changed for today’s first hour?

Hmmm… the Qaddafi story wasn’t on tap late last night or even early this morning when I checked.

And even stranger:

On 10/18 a story broke in the afternoon about the FED ‘backstopping’ BofA and $75 Trillion of derivatives and William Black was on that morning’s show and it wasn’t even mentioned even though he’s quoted in the article from Bloomberg which broke later that day.

These two examples are a little more than uncanny.

When and how I’d like to know.
Long Time On Point Listener

I remember when all the lefties were calling Bush a war-monger, (which he is),

but when Obama follows right in Bush’s footsteps, with all the killings, torture, coups, invasions, pre-emptive military actions and overthrow of regimes, it all suddenly becomes acceptable and even justified.

How do you describe a supporter of Obama’s foreign policy?

Two-faced hypocrite.
- JP
  
  More rightie lies…
  
  -Obama has never been accused of a coup… the Arab spring consists of popular uprisings, not instigated ones.
  
  -torture ended when Cheney/Bush left office… the Obama administration has not been accused of torture.
  
  -Obama initiated no invasions, overthrows, or pre-emptive military actions… he has only taken action to wrap up those actions already begun under Bush.
  
  -killings? Well, yes… all the major targets that Repugnicans raged about for years, getting us into wars over them… well, they’re now all gone under Obama’s supervision.
  - JP
    
    … talk about hypocrites…
    - Modavations
      
      Now you’re a doppleganger of yourself.I’m really confusicated now.
  - SendInTheDrones
    
    Do you even listen to yourself:
    
    “No invasions, overthrows or pre-emptive military actions… but killings? Well yes…”
    
    Oh, so it’s okay since he’s just picking up where the last administration left off.
    
    And, how about not prosecuting any of those criminals for torture?
    
    He’s just as complicit as the last guy.
    - JP
      
      More rightie hypocrisy.
      - JP
        
        Now let’s hear the lie about how you’re not a rightie.
      - Clueless
        
        Your lack of intelligence and critical thinking skills preceed you.
      - JP
        
        is that supposed to make sense?
      - Modavations
        
        Leftie gobble- de- gook.I had to buy a “Leftie” dictionary
  - Long Time On Point Listener
    
    “Obama has never been accused of a coup”.
    
    What do you think just happened in Libya?
    
    The Libyan coup was a CIA operation directed by Obama.
    
    Where will Obama strike next? Iran? Syria? Pakistan? Angola?
    or perhaps Venezuela.
    - JP
      
      … Another lie.
      
      Libya was one more popular uprising out of the recent slew of arab uprisings.
      
      … show any credible source (which you can’t) for your assertion… other than some Glen Beck clone site.
      - Long Time On Point Listener
        
        You’re problem is that you are incapable of thinking in a critical manner.
        
        Whatever lie Obama spews out, you just accept it like a good little Obamanoid.
        
        I’ll bet you believed that ridiculous lie Obama tried to pass off less than a week ago that a dope-smoking, used car salesman from Texas, that liked to ‘frequent’ prostitutes, tried to blow-up the Saudi embassy in D.C.!!
        
        Go on, admit it JP, you believed that absurd lie, didn’t you.
      - JP
        
        Sure I can think in a critical manner… I’m criticizing all the stupidities and lies in your asinine posts!
      - Long Time On Point Listener
        
        So you admit that Obama is a lying war-monger who should be incarcerated.
        
        Now we can agree on something.
      - Modavations
        
        What the hell happened to Medea and Code Pink.Oh yeah,Dem.wars good,Rep.wars bad
      - JP
        
        What Dem. wars?
        
        … There are only Repugnican wars due to Repugnican lies which Dems had to come in and clean up.
      - Modavations
        
        I was unaware that Bush had instigated Libya.I thought it had something to do with the Brits and French.As they are “Righties”,I suppose you have a point.I’m so confused,who are you impersonating?
      - Heaviest Cat
        
        Wrong ,Modavations ,
        It’s just that “liberal” outlets like “national Ostensibly Public Radio are too busy talking to Generals and other upper echelons of command to talk to Ms Medea and Code Pink
      - JP
        
        … and it’s not “You’re problem,” it’s “your problem.”
        
        For Pete’s sake, get an education if your going to try and come off as educated!
      - Long Time On Point Listener
        
        Sorry dude for the typo,
        
        that’s what happens when you have to work all day so that I can help pay for Obama’s endless wars.
      - nj
        
        [[ For Pete's sake, get an education if your going to try and come off as educated! ]]
        Classic.
        
        Pots and kettles.
- Heaviest Cat
  
  Long Time Listener,
  Many voices on the Left have not only criticized Obama’s war policies as a continuation of W’s but have questioned who Obama really is and who he represents,judging from his protmotion of Bush’s surveillance policies and his pushing of “free trade’ agreements among other things. If you can find it(laternative Radio website) there’s a great talk by Australian activist and journalist ,Jon Pilger on “Obama and the Age of Imperialism”
  - Long Time On Point Listener
    
    Thanks H.C., I’ll check it out.
Treachery

A state that uses “treachery” to kill an enemy may be guilty of war crimes. Article 23 of the Hague Convention IV of 1907 provides that “it is especially forbidden . . . to kill or wound treacherously, individuals belonging to the hostile nation or army.” Treachery is usually defined as a breach of confidence, such as an attack on an individual who believes that there is no need to fear the attacker.

http://www.enotes.com/genocide-encyclopedia/assassination
Long Time On Point Listener

Obama must be thinking that if he starts enough wars, invades enough countries, drops enough bombs, then maybe Americans will overlook Obama’s miserable economy.

One thing is becoming quite clear, Obama is a dangerous war-monger.
- GuiltyPuppet
  
  Just like the last guy – he’s just doing what he’s told to do.
  - Long Time On Point Listener
    
    Where is all this insanity going to lead to? WW3?
    - Modavations
      
      It’s already started.Just takes a bit to turn hot.
- Bradley Ryan82
  
  It is ironic, I’ll give you that. I don’t know what he’s thinking or why there isn’t more pushback on the left. A lot of people say his actions validate the raw intel that the public isn’t privy to but its starting to get kind of scary.
JP

BTW, why do you keep posting under different names?

… no one gives your assertions greater weight based on your fake, lame attempt to look like several opinions instead of one.
- Modavations
  
  There most be 20 guys out there impersonating me.It’s all so confusing
Modavations

Never fear.M.Capuano says ,lregardless of the dictators demise,he will continue his suit against the Prez.
- JP
  
  “Iregardless?” HaHa Ha!
  - Modavations
    
    That’s not an I it’s a misplacement.Irregardless would be the correct Hillbillism
  - Modavations
    
    i or l I or L
- JP
  
  … another conservative genius!
Modavations

If the dropped your average OWS, Boston member, in the “maze”in Danvers,could they get out?
Modavations

Mummy,the homeless men keep peeing on my tent and after a hard day of beating on my Tom Toms,they stole all my stuff.Can I come home………
Zing

The New York Times has just reported that someone resembling Muammar Gaddafi just deplaned at DFW International and boarded a motorcade bound for the Bush ranch at Crawford. Details are sketchy at this moment, but there is speculation that Gaddafi will be residing in a compound with Osama Bin Laden. The two will be quarantined guests at the ranch except for occasional breaks to visit Las Vegas. Developing…
Hidan

Anyone catch the news on how the obama Admin is selling 53 million dollars in arms to Bahrain?
Hidan

Good thing we’re supporting the TNC who Lynch blacks calling them Merc. Much better. Good thing those Rebels will shoot anyone protesting the TNC or torture anyone they suspect are pro Gadafi.
RockTheMedia

Israel 1 – Gaddafi 0
Israel 1 – Saddam 0
Israel vs. Syria … being played at the Center Court
Israel vs. Iran …. coming up.

Americans: when Israel says jump, ask “how high”
Gregg

9/11 proved we are not safe so long as nations ruled by brutal theocratic dictatorships continue to dedicate their every effort towards the dastardly demise of infidels (non-Muslims). There is a global war being waged whether we participate or not. I say that with every obligatory caveat (Islam is a religion of peace, all Muslims are not radical, etc.) but it is what it is.

I believe a whole lot of bloodshed could have been prevented in Libya had America acted quickly and led without apology from the beginning. Now the question is, “Who will fill the void?”. When Syria finally pulled out of Lebanon it was Hezbollah. Will the Muslim Brotherhod end up in control of Egypt? Will Afganistan go back to the Taliban? Who are the “Rebels” are in Libya? I don’t even know where to start with Pakistan. There seems to be a bunch of belly-aching about being the police of the world or what we can afford. What’s the choice? I say lead or someone else will. A little peace can save a lot of money.

We do have one new ally in the heart of the Middle East, Iraq. So we’ve got that going for us.

The Arab Spring in happening with or without our leadership. I think America is best suited to guide the process to peace. There are radical elements fully prepared to die for their cause, someone damn well better step up. France? Canada? UN?
- nj
  
  Best joke of the day: “ think America is best suited to guide the process to peace.”

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