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Occupy Wall Street Examined

Occupy Wall Street has spread to cities and towns across the country. We’ll talk with some of the occupiers: what do they want? Where’s the movement headed?

A protester affiliated with the "Occupy Wall Street" demonstration listens to a drum circle  in Zuccotti Park in New York, on Monday, Oct. 10, 2011. (AP)

A protester affiliated with the "Occupy Wall Street" demonstration listens to a drum circle in Zuccotti Park in New York, on Monday, Oct. 10, 2011. (AP)

The Occupy Wall Street movement first raised its flag – or flags – on September 17th in New York. Within two weeks it was world news. In three, it had the President and top politicians in both parties speaking to it. Not always respectfully.

Today, it’s reported active in 150 cities around the country and many more towns. It is sprawling. Proudly unregimented. But the top of its list of gripes is pretty clear. Gross inequality. Rampant joblessness and insecurity. The charge of a corrupted system. What now? We’ll ask.

This hour On Point: Occupy Wall Street is with us, in the studio.

-Tom Ashbrook

Guests


Bre Lembitz
, an activist with Occupy Wall Street in New York.

Jon Phoenix, a student at Northeastern University, he has been active in the Occupy Boston protests.

Peter Kuhns, a community organizer for the Alliance of Californians for Community Empowerment, he has been active in the Occupy Los Angeles protests.

Todd Gitlin, a professor at the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism.

Highlights

The Occupy Wall Street protests are sweeping the nation and stretching into their fourth week. It is getting national attention and raising questions about what exactly the demonstrators want and where their movement is headed.

Occupy Boston activist Jon Phoenix at WBUR. (Alex Kingsbury/WBUR)

Occupy Boston activist Jon Phoenix at WBUR. (Alex Kingsbury/WBUR)

“I felt like I was one in a million before joining this protest,” said Bre Lembitz, an activist with Occupy Wall Street in New York who has spent the past three weeks demonstrating in Lower Manhattan, and spending her nights in a sleeping bag. “The movement is giving voice to lots of other people who hold the same opinion as I do.”

Jon Phoenix, a student at Northeastern University and party of the Occupy Boston protests, said today that the motivation for the demonstrations are clear. “Society is too damned unfair,” he said “These tent cities you see out there are Obamavilles, they are the modern day equivalent of the Hoovervilles of the 1930s.”

Phoenix said that in the long run a third party could form as a result of the Occupy protests. “These protests at some point, they have to be translated into some type of tangible organization that can end up building something for the long term.”

And in Los Angeles, Peter Kuhns, a veteran community organizer active in the Occupy Los Angeles protests, said he sees people fighting for tangible results, like lower tuition and fewer foreclosures.

“What we’re seeing now is capitalism out of control – clearly,” Kuhns said. He said that there are numerous problems, including the high cost of college education, high numbers of foreclosures, and fair taxation. “One big question will be how our political leaders will respond to the demonstrations.”

Todd Gitlin, a professor at the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism and a veteran of the radical student movement of the 1960s, had some advice for the demonstrators.

The most useful thing they could do, Gitlin said, was to act as a point of leverage on the Democratic Party. “By exercising a gravitational force there, it will remind intelligent Democrats that they [the protesters] can point the direction to victory,” Gitlin said.

More

You can find a collection of “We are the 99 percent” statements here.

From Tom’s Reading List

The Nation “Six weeks later, on September 17, the occupation in downtown New York began, with scant attention, minimal and often derisive media coverage, and little expectation that it would light a spark where others had not. Now, in its fourth week, Occupy Wall Street has the quality of an exploding star: It is gathering energy in enormous and potent quantities, and propelling it outward to all corners of the country.”

The New York Times “If some aspects of the Occupy Wall Street protest feel predictable — the drum circles, the signs, including “Tax Wall Street Transactions” and “End the FED” — so does the right-wing response. Is it any surprise that Fox News and its allied bloggers consider the protesters “deluded” and “dirty smelly hippies”? ”

The Wall Street Journal “The Occupy Wall Street movement calls itself “leaderless,” but a small cadre of dedicated activists has stepped up to manage the increasingly complex demonstrations as they move into their fourth week.”

CNN “To be fair, the reason why some mainstream news journalists and many of the audiences they serve see the Occupy Wall Street protests as incoherent is because the press and the public are themselves. It is difficult to comprehend a 21st century movement from the perspective of the 20th century politics, media, and economics in which we are still steeped.”

Occupy Los Angeles
Occupy DC Storms Senate Office Building
Brooklyn Bridge Arrests

Playlist

Takin’ It To the Streets by The Doobie Brothers

Please follow our community rules when engaging in comment discussion on this site.
  • Wm. James from Missouri

    A few years back there was a 300 million dollar lottery winner in our area. I was at the store ,that morning, where the winning ticket was sold. It turns out, that the clerks had laid them on the counter in anticipation of strong demand. If I would have just went up to that counter and bought that ticket ! Wow ! I would like to know how would you be responding to the troubles people are having had YOU bought that ticket ? Take that 300 million, deduct your taxes and break it down into 25 year payments, then take pen to paper and be honest, how much would you give away ? ——————————Now to more earthy considerations. ———————————EVERYDAY on this planet, over 2 Trillion dollars in various currencies are traded. Some years ago the Wall Street Journal estimated that, only 6% to 8% of that traded money has anything to do with the actual flow of goods and services. ( I quote these figures from memory, don’t take them as pure fact just a reasonable estimate. ) Some of this money is in the hands of travelers, speculators, hoarders, and so many others. You can not stop world trade, period; but you can work to regulate it. Have you ever wrote to your congressman, your union, your major, your financial advisor …, and asked them where they are investing your retirement dollars ( 401, pension, etc.) Many people are giving money to strangers to invest in companies that take that money to build business overseas that will eventually put you or THEMSELVES out of a job ! This is not a winning strategy ! Protesters; THINK, STRATEGIZE, and position yourself. Why not start your own mutual fund ?

    • Wm. James from Missouri

      Afterthought:  The Hollywood line: “ Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer ” , is a philosophy that would play well for protesters and Wall street traders, alike ! 

  • Fredlinskip

       A country where top 5% controls 90% of it’s resources is not representative of a government “for and by the people”. It’s time to stop pretending we live in a Democracy and rename it something more appropriate.    Those that have supported trickle up economics for past 30 years, should be enormously happy- now that the top few % have all the $. Anyone who was delusional enough to believe it would “trickle” back down to everyone, SHOULD have been rudely awakened by now.

    • Zing

      You better develop trickle up a bit;  the lefty manual only talks about trickle down.

      • Corythatcher

        Let me help.  Trickle down=what was promised,  Trickle up=what was delivered.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Actually, trickle down was promised, FLOOD UP was the acutual results.

        • Yar

          If trickle down worked, when you light a lamp as the fire burned at the wick the tank would fill with oil.  Garbage and waste trickles down, resources are wicked up.

        • Zing

          I didn’t ask you.

    • Jasoturner

      The great thing about being rich and powerful in America is that all you have to say is “America is the greatest country in the world” and the questions stop.  Look at the health care demagoguery for a fine example.

    • Evan

      I think we need to overcome our limited understanding of the world that “country” presents. We need to join with the global south and realize that the super-wealthy is a global group and they serve each other and undermine democracy no matter where their business takes them.

  • DontTreadOnThem

    NPR should be examining themselves and the rest of the MSM about the coverage, or lack there of, concerning their ‘spin’ on finally taking interest in this story.

    In a The Media World (NPR included) that has already forgotten about the Fukushima Nuclear disaster in Japan and the BP Oil disaster in the Gulf of Mexico, it will be only a matter of time before they forget about this.

    Shame on NPR, the Main Stream Media, the Celebrities and the Rest Of Us for patronizing these people, their dedication and this story.

     

    • Zero

      Get over yourself.  NPR and the BBC are the most objective and empirically based news outfits this country has.

      • Anonymous

        They may be objective and emperical but they need to be much better.

      • RaiseYourBar

        Objective and empirically based?  NPR and the BBC?

        Your comment proves the lack of critical reasoning skills and handicapped expectations media consumers have been conditioned to except.

        These two ‘news’ outfits are just slightly better at delivering the information and propaganda their empires represent and are frequently worse than other news media sources on what they don’t report.

    • Cory

      If they continue strong, they’ll get more attention.

    • nj

      Oh, come on, On Point’s been covering the essential stories all along: Peter Pan, Jane Lynch, the new Kindle…

  • Zero

    I hear that there are droves of people taking their money out of banks
    and putting it in Credit Unions.  Pretty good idea if you ask me.

    Our banking industry is made up of very rich men sitting in meetings trying to think up new ways to suck money out of your account.

    People moving their money to non-profit credit unions would be the most damaging protest I can think of.

    • http://www.richardsnotes.org Richard

      … or smaller, community banks. I agree, taking business away from Bank of America, Citi, and other large banks is the way to send a message.

    • Zing

      Don’t believe everything you hear.

      • nj

        Even better: Don’t believe anything “Zing” posts.

    • nj

      See: http://www.cutimes.com/2011/10/10/bank-transfer-day-causes-cu-buzz

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

      I hear that there are droves of people taking their money out of banks and putting it in Credit Unions.

      How big is a “drove”?

  • Yar

    Trust is broken, we are in a generational civil war, our currency will crash, people will not be able to use money to store work.  Occupy Wall Street might not understand what they are protesting for or against, but they know that the 1 percent took the work of the 99 percent and called it their own.  History shows that this doesn’t usually go well.  The system must reset, the counter “money” no longer represents work.  Stop and think about the history of resets, the year of Jubilee was established as a peaceful reset, revolutions are resets, even the game Monopoly, the game ends and goes back into the box.  When the few take too much, then the masses react, a jellyfish doesn’t attack, it simply reacts to being touched, and everyone in the way gets stung. 

    First of all, money is not a resource, it is intended as a promise for resources.  Money is used as a counter for trading work over time, but that promise is broken, Wall Street implemented a tax on the flow of money and banks were complicit. Banks take about 4 percent off the top of every electronic cash transaction.  None of it really mattered while the economy was expanding because no extra work was involved, the transaction tax was simply part of the expansion. The bubble popped.  Wall Street was intended to invest money “stored work” and return that energy to the investor “us, when we retire” over time.  That is not what they did, they took our invested energy and processed it through repeated trades taking a percentage each time it was traded until the value was gone.  While the numbers were going up the true value was going down. The energy behind money is gone, we continue to use it as the system crashes but our current monetary system must be reset, hopefully without violence, but most likely through revolution.  What can we do to prevent a violent revolution?

    • Cory

      I don’t see the 1% or 5% giving in at all without the fear of violence.  A horde of 99ers on their finely manicured lawns hurling debris through their windows might just be the fulcrum point of true change.  It also might not be.  Monied interests in America have a lot of firepower and might be willing to turn the proverbial dogs loose.

      • JustSayin

        …and here we see a mirror image of who sided with Mubarak and who did not. If the people really rise up and decide they want  representative government here in the US, then the situation will proceed in the same manner. The top 5% who receive their wealth through government corruption will hire mercenaries… their Republican Guard (AKA- BlackWater) to enforce their rule.  Perhaps as in Egypt the police/military will stand by and wait for the opportunity for a junta.

         

      • Yar

        Even the most selfish person in the world should understand that they have an investment in civil order, and that the masses can’t be controlled by force or one sided propaganda forever. When the gap in wealth becomes to great, a lightening bolt of anarchy strikes.  
        Public and private US debt is around 57 trillion dollars.  We are looking for a lifeboat in an economy that was built of cheap energy, the world can’t support 7 billion people on fossil fuel forever.  

        The only way I know to prevent a revolution is to raise wages and inflate the money supply.  Inflation is a tax on old money.  Use it or lose it, it will get our economy back in gear for the short term.  My solution is to tie wages to the price of oil or some other unit of energy, in essence a commodity that keeps the working poor and middle class from drowning under a high rate of inflation.  Brazil did much the same thing with its virtual currency, and after a time they converted to the new currency.   Energy is as close to a world currency as we have today.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Oil, coal, nuclear, and natural gas are POOR choices for an energy-based currency, as they are finite, require a LOT of money to get and deliver, and are ALREADY mostly held by GREEDY rich!!

          • Yar

            What if wages were tied to a unit of energy, such as the calorie, KWH, or BTU?  My point is, if wages are not tied to a commodity they deflate as commodities inflate.  When real wages deflate to a point then the people revolt.  What can be done to keep that from happening? 

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Actually, your idea for KWH or BTU CREDITS, as a basis for currency is a GOOD one.  I cannot think of one better!  Nearly ALL human needs are based on energy in one form or another.  Gold, silver, and other precious metals derive a lot of their value from energy-value.  Food is based on energy-value.
                Many, if not all of the wars of the last hundred years have been started, based on energy.
                You certainly have something there!
                I award you my virtual glass of wine of your choice, as the ale or lager of your choice is Cory’s domain, and I am not able to go around buying drinks for people in reality.

  • Winston Smith

    I personally like the analogy that is being made comparing the TEA Party movement to Occupy Wall Street.  Each side has their extremist elements which their opponents can use to dismiss their viewpoints.  But they are both saying the same thing from a different angle.  The TEA Party is saying that there is something drastically wrong with a country that is $15 Trillion in debt with the middle class getting squeezed.  Occupy Wall Street is saying that there is something drastically wrong with a financial system that gives all of the benefits to the top 1%, that somehow allows those guilty of massive fraud to escape without going to prison, and that the middle class is getting squeezed.

    Given the gigantic multi-faceted hole that we are in ($15 trillion debt, a government that is beholden to financial special interests and dysfunctional), I don’t see a solution coming down the pike anytime soon, unfortunately.

    • Brett

      For once, I find myself in sort of agreement with one of your posts! Sort of. I think the Occupy Wall Street protests (going on continuously for a month now–and spreading throughout many major cities) is more grass roots, more like protests that erupted on the late ’60′s. 

      I would say many in the Tea Party are sincere and well organized (much better organized than the OWS crowd); however, many of the events involving the Tea Party are more staged, better bankrolled by billionaires behind the scenes, and so on. The Tea Party has affected some changes in political races (which indicates well-organized power), but neocon leadership has also co-opted and manipulated much of their initial message and thrust. Maybe some common ground can be accomplished in these two sides as they look through their differing lenses. I, for one, hope so, and I hope these protests continue until next summer (traditional when protests really can start to percolate).

      • Brett

        Sorry, Greg Camp, I meant to use the adverb form of “traditional.” (Should read: “traditionally, when protests really can start to percolate”). 

    • TFRX

      The Tea Party didn’t give a crap until a black Democrat won the White House by a margin that was too big for the GOP to steal in court. Then they went apesh!t over everything Obama did that or that government did which didn’t bother them one bit when Shrub did it.

  • Charlie mc

             Macchiavelli could not have written a better protocol than that which the Republican Party is employing to influence the well meaning but ill informed electorate to “throw the O bama out” in the next Presidential election. If the Republicans were in the White House now, and a liberal Democrat group were behaving as the Republican Party has over the past two years, the administration would ask the House Unamerican Activities Committee to investigate. President Obama has made every effort to dialogue with the monological. So often the participant in a dialogue who is willing to make compromises is seen as weak, just like the Dalai Lama is seen as weak by China. Times up. Wake up electorate to what is being done to you.
           No question, President Obama has made some grievous errors in trusting his chosen economic advisors to focus on helping America instead of saving Wall Street. Most of these advisors have “jumped ship” and the President must now ”gird his loins” for the tough decisions he must make, and the advisors towards whom he should turn.
           Perhaps Andrew J. Bacevich, Colin Powell, John Bogle, Robert Reich and possibly even Brooksley Born are available to serve again.
           There is no question that America has had it with politics as usual in Washington, but mob psychology, while useful as a wake up call, cannot be calling the shots as to optimal changes. We need intelligent, experienced and courageous leadership which makes the right decisions, even and especially when, these decisions could be politically ruinous. It’s not too late for this administration unless they buy the Republican propaganda.
           
             
           

    • Zing

      Who negotiates with a weakling?

      • Anonymous

        Maybe somebody who actually had America’s best interest at heart? The GOP is turning out to be a treasonous political organization, with power only as its goal. (And I’m a GOPer.)

  • LinP

    Why are the police being so heavy handed with the protesters in NY and Boston? It’s analogous to the “forces loyal to (insert dictator)” in the Arab world. They too are part of the 99% being used and abused, squeezed by the throat by the same oligarchs/power mongers who are killing our democracy. If the police ever move to stand on the side of the protesters, then we’d really have the beginnings of a revolution. I won’t hold my breath, however. We, sadly, continue to live in a world where a majority still work to protect, serve, and elect the very powers that are ruining lives and opportunities for so many.

    • Zing

      The 99% number is nonsense; it’s just a talking point for lefties trying to steal from hard working Americans

      • Jasoturner

        Mebbe.  But I’m a hard working American who pays my taxes and my mortgage faithfully.  That doesn’t mean I don’t know that I’m getting screwed by my semi-monopolistic cable company.  There are legitimate grips to be had with how Americans are being nickeled and dimed to death so that corporate America can maintain their profit margins.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

          That doesn’t mean I don’t know that I’m getting screwed by my semi-monopolistic cable company.

          Good grief!   You aren’t “getting screwed” by the cable company – you have chosen to do business with them under those terms.   You’re obviously getting your money’s-worth or you wouldn’t be paying it.     We don’t have cable because we don’t watch TV

          • Jasoturner

            My profession requires that I have internet access, and I need a land line for my elderly in-laws to use.  I most assuredly am paying far more for that service than it costs them to deliver, even after amortizing their capital costs.  I am probably paying an order of magnitude more, as a matter of fact.

            Yeah, I have lots of choices.  And we all get free ponies, too.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

            I need internet access for my work, too.  We have FIOS high speed internet for $34.95 / mo.  I don’t think that’s a rip-off price.    You don’t need to bundle cable TV with it.   When FIOS came to my town they offered special promotional prices to compete with the existing cable companies and I grabbed it.   You have to look for deals  -  that’s lots of them out there.  

            Also, if you need it for work you can deduct it on your taxes if your employer isn’t paying for it.

          • Gregg

            That makes too much sense. Isn’t it better to take to the streets and whine?

      • Cory

        I think it should be “the 95%”. 

        I hope the following doesn’t get deleted, because I’m trying to make a solid point.

        What is really STUPID about your post is the notion that only people at the top work hard.  This was either a careless and flip remark on your part or a glaring example of partisan lying and ignorance.  The more likely source of this movement is all the people who WORK HARD and get no return for their effort.  One could also insinuate from your comment that no lefties or only righties work hard.  Equally stupid.

      • http://www.richardsnotes.org Richard

        You mean the “hard working Americans” at Tea Party rallies with signs that read:

        “Don’t let the Government get involved with my Social Security”

        Or, are we talking “Joe the Plumber”, Sara Palin or other grifters?

      • Terry Tree Tree

        NAME all those hard-working Americans that do 500 to 10,000 times as much work, as their least-paid employees!!

      • Anonymous

        The gap in wealth and income between the top 1% and the rest hasn’t been this great since the 1920′s.  You may find that to be a good thing.  A lot of us don’t.

    • Cime

      We see who’s side the Gov’t is really on! Those who complain about big Gov’t most!

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

      Why are the police being so heavy handed with the protesters in NY and
      Boston? It’s analogous to the “forces loyal to (insert dictator)” in the
      Arab world.

      That’s an insult to the thousands or Arab protesters who have literally risked their lives (and often lost their lives) and who have been imprisoned and tortured by despotic regimes.

      If the police ever move to stand on the side of the protesters, then we’d really have the beginnings of a revolution.

      Any revolution in the US will come from the right -  they have the guns and military training.

      • Vtcheflw

        You alway have a very limited veiw of revolution.

  • Zing

    Hey.  You’d be mad too if you owed thousands for a worthless education and had no marketable skills.  The problem is these kids still believe what they were told in high school and college.  So I guess if the party and weather are good, have fun.  I just hope nobody gets stupid and winds up getting killed. Peace.

    • Vtcheflw

      It’s not just kids man.

    • Jasoturner

      You raise an interesting point.  If good education is now reduced to “marketable skills”, I would say too that we are probably devolving from “citizens” to “workers” in how we think about ourselves and our role in our country. 

      Worth – in the sense of having value – has been fully monetized in this new era.

      And I agree, let’s hope nobody gets hurt.

      • Cory

        Awesome comment!  I’d like to buy you an ale or lager of your choosing…

        • Jasoturner

          Ha!  Have a Brooklyn Lager for me!

        • Brett

          I was wondering when you were going to buy this man a beer! 

        • Anonymous

          Make that two, Cory, and I’ll chip in for the second.

      • Zing

        I thought so.

    • nj

      Now i get it. “Zing” is the sound of the point sailing by this poster.

      • Anonymous

        Needs to change handle to “thud”

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Good one!!

    • Cory

      Your attempts to pigeon-hole and marginalize these thousands of protesters is lame.  Stop projecting your opinion on what is likely a diverse group of people.

      • Zing

        I’m right and you know it

  • SteveV

    I haven’t seen anything like this since the 60′s and early 70′s and people protesting the Vietnam War. I suggest many protests occur because people realize they have some “skin in the game”, not simply because it’s the “right thing to do”. In the 60′s/70′s young men faced the draft, hence a reason to protest.  When we invaded Iraq, no such protests. Why? No draft. When we bailed out Wall Street several years ago, no protest. Why? It didn’t directly affect these folks, until now, and in a personal way. I’m not arguing the validity of either of these protests, just noting with interest some of the motivating factors behind them.

    • nj

      “When we invaded Iraq, no such protests.”

      Huh?

      http://www.google.com/search?q=iraq+war+protests&hl=en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1090&bih=787

      Despite large, sustained opposition, they still invaded Iraq.

      It will take more than “occupying” to change our FUBAR system. They’re a good start (raising awareness, generating interest, etc.), but demonstrations alone aren’t going to do it, nor are “making demands.” What’s the next step?

      I suggest taking over the primary/nominating processes beginning at the local level, and putting candidates of, by, and for the people (and not corporations) in office so that meaningful reform legislation can be passed. If the Tea Baggers can do it based on a couple of simple-minded, reflexive responses (smaller government, lower taxes), the left/populists can do it based on a more comprehensive, thoughtful agenda (limit U.S. foreign intervention, reduce corporate influence, campaign finance reform, cut subsidies to damaging energy technologies, etc.).

      See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnHvrmjGnaU

      What, exactly will be the mechanism by which the “occupiers” propose to enact meaningful change?

    • http://www.richardsnotes.org Richard

      I protested the Iraq invasion for many months. I was in the march in San Francisco and continued protesting on the green in Litchfield, Connecticut after that.

      But, I agree with you, there should have been more protests like this during the Bush years and the fact that they didn’t happen is a shame.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Loring-Palmer/100000673381066 Loring Palmer

    Thank you for this examination of the “99%” eruption.
    Re. a more honest assessment of our economic crisis, check out the Keiser Report. “Every week Max Keiser and co-host Stacy Herbert look at all the scandal behind the financial news headlines.”
    http/rt.com/programs/keiser-report

  • Somalia
  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Loring-Palmer/100000673381066 Loring Palmer

    Thank you, Somalia, for this link that connects directly to the Occupy Wall Street live stream.  Yes, the revolution IS being televised! 

  • Somalia

    My Pleasure and Thank you, Palmer, for the link to rt america, which has some very good programs, like the Alyona show-she’s great- Thom Hartmann, and definitely the Keiser report for sure.  Also here is the link for current tv (Keith Olberman @ 8 & 11 PM) streaming for those who dont get it via cable.

    http://www.thertv.eu/?p=22

    He’s had good coverage,better than cnn msnbc faux.  Of course Democracynow.org as well has been and is always indispensable.

    Blogs, nakedcapitalism.org  counterpunch.org and glenn greenwald. 
     

    • Somalia

      CORRECTION nakedcapitalism.com (not .org)   MY MISTAKE

    • Anonymous

      Likewise–I just discovered RT America and it is great!

  • Jasoturner

    I think people are trying to articulate their frustration with the fact that necessities of modern life are currently controlled and priced by for profit companies that are willing to squeeze customers until they break.  If you want electricity or natural gas, Duke Energy or Hess or Transcanada is glad to oblige – for whatever price the market will bear.  If you want a bank account, you will pay fees a la Bank of America – despite the fact that we were originally told how electronic banking and ATMs SAVED money for banks.  Remember that?  If you want internet access, you will pay many times the value of the actual service to one of the large corporations that has bought and controls a local franchise (their capital costs were recovered long ago – a new customer probably costs Comcast about five bucks a month to service.)  If you want health care, you will not be told what it will cost or how or if you will be reimbursed, but you have no choice and no information to make contingency plans for care.  If you live on wages, you pay 30% of your income in taxes, but the wealthy living on investment income pay half of that rate (and without having the economy affecting their quality of life nearly to the extent of a worker-drone, to boot.)  And there is resentment that many six figure earners are pleased when their talents that allow them to make big buck, when  many of them are basically dopes who got lucky or who got into predatory industries that can afford to overpay for nominal competence because they can charge their basically captive customers whatever they want.  I think those are some of the issues bubbling beneath the surface.

    I also think this is a harbinger of things to come.  Our country has some issues.

    • Brett

      Great post! 

    • Gregg

      We have an energy policy that is non-existent. Obama said during the campaign he would put the coal companies out of business. He said he wants high gas prices to encourage conservation. His policies are the reason for high energy cost, not the market. The BofA fees are a direct result of Dodd/Franks which mandated banks cut their transaction fees in half. They simply shifted the costs to the consumer.

      • Gregg

        BTW, Obama once blamed ATM’s for job loses.

        • Brett

          Yeah, and no one has questioned him about the missing Lindbergh baby, either!?!?!

          • Gregg
          • Brett

            You seem to suffer from the same reading comprehension deficits as Brandstatic! If you go back and read the article, the part that you seized on is about how Republicans have spun the whole thing (in much the same way as you have) and not what the President was really saying about changing technologies and how they change the skills sets needed in the job market. 

          • Gregg

            “The president said that “the other thing that happened, though, and this
            goes to the point you were just making, is there are some structural
            issues with our economy where a lot of businesses have learned to become
            much more efficient with a lot fewer workers. You see it when you go to
            a bank and you use an ATM; you don’t go to a bank teller.”

            ATM’s created more jobs not less.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Goofy conclusion from that quote!

      • Jasoturner

        Oh man, you got that right!  It would be great if On Point did a show not only on our lack of energy policy, but also the exquisite vulnerability of our existing energy infrastructure to significant disruption.  It is really scary to think what would happen if those tiny veins of pipelines and wires somehow got damaged or sabotaged.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Good analysis!!

  • twenty-niner

    The good news is that the likelihood of another TARP is rapidly heading towards 0%. The big banks are now on notice that their safety net is being dismantled.

    • Anonymous

      I see not one shred of evidence that this is happening.
      If the GOP takes back the White House, and it does seem like they will, and if they gain more seats in the House and the Senate they will be able to do what they want. I see the opposite myself.

      • twenty-niner

        On the contrary, Democrats in Congress were more in favor of TARP than Republicans:

        House:
        Democratic 172 Yeas, 63 Nays
        Republican 91 Nays, 108 Nays

        Senate:
        9 Democratic Nays
        14 Republican Nays
        1 Independent Nay

        • Anonymous

          TARP by the way was put forth by Bush.
          It was supported by the GOP and then when Obama took office it became this thing that was all about him. This is a good example of the GOP’s ideology trumping what is good for the nation.
          I for one am not sure is TARP was the right thing but a complete failure of our entire financial system would have been worse.
          If you don’t think so you are a fool.

          • twenty-niner

            “TARP by the way was put forth by Bush.”

            It was really pushed Henry Paulson, the ex CEO of Golden Sack, but Congress had to approve it. The Republicans voted down the first crack at TARP, and many tried to vote down the second.

            Bailing out the system was the right decision. Bailing out the shareholders was the mistake. The shareholders of the big banks should’ve been wiped out, the same way GM and Chrysler shareholders were all obliterated. Moreover, the institutions could have all remained in tact, the same way GM was. The only way to have avoided the cosmic moral hazard that we were left with would have been to insist that the shareholders take the loss they deserved.

      • Anonymous

        Jeffe68,

        Why don’t you take a few weeks off to study up on the facts before wasting everyone’s time with your fiction story.

    • Anonymous

      I’m not sure what street you live on but it ain’t Wall St. As Sherrod Brown stated (and PolitiFact confirmed),  ”Fifteen years ago, the assets of the six largest banks in this country totaled 17 percent of GDP, 17 percent of GDP. The assets of the six largest banks in the United States today total 63 percent of GDP.” The likelihood of another TARP is now 100%, simply because the gov’t would have no choice. Why doesn’t everyone see that?

      • twenty-niner

        “The likelihood of another TARP is now 100%”

        Then the likelihood of a revolution is 100%.

  • Vtcheflw

    While these protest have made a lot of noise and are pushing the national dialog in a more honest direction, I worry that the thinking about the changes we need is way too belt-way.  People are talking about going back to the gold standard, but this value is still a speculation.  We need to base money on measurable values, ei: calories or BTUs.  If we can measure the energy have stored– food or biomass or whatever– then we have an economy base in reality.  I know, it is out there, but have a think on it okay. 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

    None of the changes the protesters seek can occur without new politicians being elected and new laws being passed.  

    But while the protesters occupy Wall Street and Boston and other cities, the Tea Party, the conservatives, and the corporate shill Democrats occupy Congress.     And that’s the occupation that matters! 

    Obama is a college professor and amateur politician.   In Washington he’s feckless and pitiful and everyone can see that.   2012 will bring us a Republican Senate and likely a President Romney.     I haven’t the faintest idea how the protesters expect their “occupation” to affect Votes and elections.

    • Vtcheflw

      You don’t get what change means, do you?

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

        You don’t get what change means, do you?

        I explained what change means in the first paragraph.      How so you imagine these protests will result in change?

        • Steve T

          They got your attention.

    • nj

      ::: *Ding* *Ding* *Ding* ::: We have a winner!

      Unless one is willing to go for total disruption/chaos (and i’m pretty sure that no one, or nearly no one is entertaining that option), the only meaningful tactic is to reform the system. This is going to take hard, sustained, organized work.

      In the short term, the best we can do is to monkey-wrench the worst aspects of the corporatocracy while working on the longer-term fixes.

    • Cory

      Maybe when they begin to practice civil disobedience.  Police and military combined make up less than 1% of our population.  Laws are obeyed and order kept because of our collective adherance to the social contract.  If millions believe the contract null and void, watch out! 

  • twenty-niner

    Note to the golfer-in-chief. Look up from your putt and take notice of some bipartisan legislation that passed the Senate last night:

    “Senate puts pressure on House, China by passing currency bill”

    http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/186841-senate-pressures-china-house-by-passing-currency-bill

    Sign it golfer!

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

      . . .  because history shows that trade wars are good for the economy and they create jobs.

      • twenty-niner

        The trade war started a decade ago, and we’re still wondering what end of the gun the round comes out. Ten years of currency manipulation, IP theft, dumping to drive competitors out of business, environmental terrorism, and endless strong-arm tactics is enough.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

          If you think this is a trade war you don’t know what a trade war is.

          What do you think an iPhone and Android phone would cost if it had to be made with US labor and US parts?      Do have any idea how many American jobs -  engineering, software, industrial design, web design, online retail, accessories, etc, etc -  depend on the existence of millions of Americans being able to afford “smart” devices?     I’m an Android programmer and I can tell you this is a huge industry in the US and it would disappear overnight.

          Anyway, low-cost manufacturing is never coming back to the US – Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia, and other places who don’t play currency games will be more than happy to have the work.

          • twenty-niner

            Firstly, trade wars hurt net exporters more than net importers. We haven’t been a net exporter for over 30 years.

            “I’m an Android programmer and I can tell you this is a huge industry in the US and it would disappear overnight.”

            I disagree. If production were moved to the United States, the factory would be highly automated. For example, there’s a Panasonic factory in Japan that produces 2 million television sets a month with just 15 people. All of those Chinese workers being payed pennies an hour could be replaced by more productive robots costing even less. In fact, I read recently the Flextronics, the company that makes most of the devices, plans to do just that. Government pressure could make the economic decision to build such plants more viable.

    • TFRX

      “Golfer in chief”

      Are you simply at a loss because George W. Bush was at his peak as Cheif Executive when on one his record-breaking number of vacation days?

      Shrub proved that when ya don’t president so good, you shouldn’t president so much.

      • twenty-niner

        Was no fan of “shrub” either, nor the gratuitous wars that are being perpetuated by his replacement.

  • Anonymous

    When the government does not try to stop our jobs being shipped overseas, it does not represent US.
    When the government promotes tax codes that promote job creation overseas, it does not represent US.
    When the government fails to protect us from behavior that threatens our economic stability, it does not represent US.
    When the government does not hold corporations or their officers accountable for the consequences of their risky behavior,  it does not represent US.
    When the government won’t enforce regulations created to protect us from greed and recklessness, it does not represent US.
    When the government limits the contributions of individual citizens in political campaigns but does not limit corporations, domestic and foreign, to control political media dialogue,  it does not represent US.
    When 2/3 of citizens want taxes raised on those who have prospered in this economic downturn and the government refuses to do so, it does not represent US.
     
    When multinational corporations OWN most of the fourth estate and politicians resort to demonizing the unemployed, teachers, unions, believers in non-Christian religions, foreign workers, regulations that protect our air and water and protect us from unethical businessmen, this government has become a puppet of the Amoral Wall Street Right and it does not represent US!

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

      When the government does not try to stop our jobs being shipped overseas, it does not represent US.

      …”does not represent US”, etc, etc

      The voters obviously feel otherwise, since they elected an even more conservative bunch last November.  

      • Terry Tree Tree

        MORE money was spent on 2010 election, than ANY Presidential election cycle!  Most of that money was spent on negative ads, most of which were skewed, is what I got.

      • Anonymous

        … a small percentage of Americans elected a group of radicals who said all the right things to pander to the fear, pain and anger of dissaffected people. If you poll those very people, they want change but don’t touch Medicare, don’t touch SSI, they want affordable Healthcare and they don’t want their jobs shipped overseas. A lot of that base did and still does harbor conflicting desires. Net result is those radical congressman have helped bring the country to its knees, nearly raining economic ruination upon us this summer with a crisis that they created. Shame on them for using fear, anger and lies to do what they think is in their personal interests, not the publics. These economic ignoramouses are slaughtering the milk cows to pay for their junkets without looking at the longterm health of America which has everything to do with jobs and absolutely nothing to do with Republican debt. Yes… over 70% of that debt was generated under Republican presidents and most of that under Reagan, G HW Bush & GW Bush. Again this has nothing to do with debt and everything to do with the fact that US multinational companies cut U.S. jobs by 2.9 million during the 2000s while adding 2.4 million overseas. Ouch! That is a sea change that we need to reckon with.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      EXCELLENT!!  Well said, and accurate!

  • Irv West

    As a “leftover” from the 60′s, when we rose up against the insults of racism and war, I am wondering if the demonstrators are planning alternative ways to keep the momentum going when the weather turns cold. It would not surprise me if the New York City administration were biding time, anticipating a “cold weather dispersal.”

    • Cory

      The “Russian winter” strategy.  Very astute observation!

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

      I am wondering if the demonstrators are planning
      alternative ways to keep the momentum going when the weather turns cold.
      It would not surprise me if the New York City administration were
      biding time, anticipating a “cold weather dispersal.”

      No doubt.    But the Tea Party was formed in January 2009, and it was with their energy and support that Massachusetts – a bastion of Democrats -  elected Scott Brown in January 2010. 

      So cold weather doesn’t seem to affect the conservatives.   I think that’s because their strategy is to “occupy Congress” and the halls of Congress are heated. 

      • Anonymous

        Isn’t it amazing what you can buy when even the government is for sale?

  • Anonymous

    What is interesting to me is how this kind of political protest, which is protected by the First Amendment, is being viewed by Mayor Menino and the police as illegal. In New York Mayor Bloomberg took a heavier hand as he’s a Wall Street supporter and one would expect him to do so. I’m not sure what the outcome of all of this will be and history is kind of messy with this kind of protests. It can take years for change to come about. One can think of the Bonus Army that camped out in Washington in 1932. The end of that political protest was that Hoover called out the Army. FDR was smart to remember this sorry day in American history and his administration gave us the GI bill as well as Social Security.  It is interesting to me how large segments of the GOP are viewing this as a mob and are not very interested in the 1st amendment.  

    • Cory

      The monied elite and the establishment can always bypass the first amendment.  Bonus army, Kent State, on and on.  When the moment comes, people will be brutalized.

    • Vtcheflw

      Right-wingers think the first amendent only applies to them, look at Mc-Carthism.

  • Cory

    If the disaffected masses in the US decide that things need to change, things will change.  I don’t think this is THE moment, but more likely a prelude to the moment.

  • nj

    Why is the OP “reading list” always entirely MSM (in this case NY Times, Wall Street Journal)?

  • Brett

    I have a dear friend who lives in the LES and she has been showing me videos, photos, etc., of what’s been happening in New York…people from all walks of life (probably not multi-millionaires, though) are participating. This business about the protesters being a bunch of lazy, out of work, twenty-somethings with an unrealistic sense of entitlement, or who didn’t plan properly in college and are now bored and looking for trouble, is a false characterization, not unlike the Viet Nam War protesters being called just a bunch of dirty, pot-smoking hippies. 

    In any kind of events like these, there are going to be people who show up just to be seen and to have fun socially, a kind of activity-esque fashion statement. This doesn’t negate the momentum. I also see this as an incipient protest, and it will gain in momentum. It doesn’t really matter that the protesters are not well organized/don’t have a clear message/don’t have clear demands, they are just getting started. 

  • Terry Tree Tree

    Anyone that cannot understand the Occupy Wall-Street, Occupy Knoxville, Occupy Los Angeles movements, is either too rich to care, or too well mesmerized by the GREEDY rich, to want to understand!
        To understand, give up ALL your wealth, make you and your family homeless, contract a dire, uncureable disease, and try to manage on two or three under-minimum-wage days of work per week!  Do that for ten years, and you might start to understand!
       Most of you will just try to ignore the problems and the results, and talk about other things in your mega-church!

    • Gregg

      I don’t think that’s who makes up these protesters. The country is not made up of helpless victims. 

      • TFRX

        More helpless than the rascalbaggers(TM) who scream “Get government out of my Medicare”?

        • Gregg

          Non-sequitur.

          • TFRX

            Let’s compare the Dunning-Kruger-poster children Teabaggers to the nascent OWStreeters.

            Voting repeatedly against one’s self interest, being purposely misinformed and only consuming right-wing media in order to reinforce one’s misbeliefs, then screaming about how all the things they didn’t give a flop about under Shrub were now crisis #1 once a black Democrat was elected to the White House?

            That sounds pretty helpless to me. They’re just waiting to be jacked, and they were.

      • Anonymous

        Yeah I guess that the majority of the working folks in this nation who have had no gains in wages for 30 years are nothing more than helpless victims. 

        • Gregg

          Victims yes, helpless no. Self-pity and jealousy are not solutions for squat.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

      Anyone that cannot understand the Occupy Wall-Street, Occupy Knoxville,
      Occupy Los Angeles movements, is either too rich to care, or too well
      mesmerized by the GREEDY rich, to want to understand!

      How is “occupying” Wall Street or Boston or LA going to change anything?    To make any changes you need to “occupy Congress” by getting progressives elected.    The Tea Party is occupying Congress and they’re getting their agenda pushed through.  

      How is “occupy Wall Street” going result in a progressive Congress?

      • Terry Tree Tree

        The ‘Occupy’ers, are drawing attention to the problems, and showing mass support.  They are also showing the lie that ‘most’ people support the GREEDY rich ‘elite’ raping the economy, pensions, savings, legal recourse, the environment, human dignity, and several other basic concepts.
            I agree that Occupy Congress is the most logical step, but the GREEDY rich are doing every thing they can to prevent real citizens being represented.

  • Gregg

    These people are nuts. Their message is one big meaningless cliche.

    • Anonymous

      And I see your response as a cliche. So I guess we beg to differ.

      • Gregg

        Have enough people called the protesters “nuts” that it’s now a cliche’. O well, it was bound to happen.

  • Erin in Iowa

    The most amusing thing about the coverage of these protests is the idea that the protesters want rich people’s “things” and their money. The idea that we want to take away your things because we deserve them. People act like you have a disease if you aren’t as greedy as everyone else.

    Here’s what the protests say to me: I think most people want to earn an HONEST living. But there are people out there who aren’t earning their money honestly – if you can even call it “earned money”. And these money inventors (because that’s all they make is more money) have taken over the political structure to a degree that we’re only beginning to uncover.

    • Anonymous

      Erin,  I agree with you that the protesters, who seem to be mostly consisting of people who make more of their income from government handouts rather than earning a wage.  These people have already demonstrated in their life that they don’t want to work hard for their money and seem to think they are owed additional forced charity from the “rich”.  Letting these people shape public policy would be like asking drug addicts to control federal drug laws.

      • TFRX

        There goes the neighborhood.

      • Anonymous

        You come on here and post nothing but rubbish and insult people.
        There are Vets in this protest by the way. Men and women who have gone to war for you. You have a lot of nerve posting this kind of offensive crap. A lot of nerve.  Not only that you offer not one thread of evidence to support this bogus claim. Why? Because you know it’s all BS. But you don’t care you come on to this forum to wave your version of the American flag.

        • Anonymous

          There were more Vets in the Tea Party Protests around the country than this sad and angry crowd yet you insulted them then.  I am surprised you are only worried about Vets when they represent the destruction of America as we know it and not when they fight to defend our country and demonstrate to return the US to its prior greatness.  I am one of the 53%ers who pay our federal income tax and are not represented at all by the so called 99%ers.

          • TFRX

            That bullflop 53% thing is an astroturfed gin-up by Erick Erickson, paid political tool whoring the Teabaggers at CNN, which used to have a reputation to protect.

            Erickson shows he doesn’t want anything but your vote, and only considers Fed Inc Tax as the “real” tax.

            So you’re telling half the country, “quitcherbitchin” and “get a job, hippie”? Wow. We thought you were tone deaf before.

      • Brett

        Not only do your reading comprehension skills/receptive language abilities (with regard to interpreting other comments) need some major therapeutic intervention, sounds as though you’re stealing cable from your neighbor and can only get one tv station! …Besides, Hannity doesn’t even throw a real football; it’s a Nerf® football! 

        If determining whether a person works or not/derives “their income from government handouts” requires nothing more than believing it’s so, then certainly anyone can see you are unemployed, on the dole and purely lazy. Why don’t you go get a haircut and go get a job! 

    • notafeminista

      Assume you are correct.  What specifically then is an HONEST living..and just for kicks…a “living wage”?    Is is the same for you as it is for me?

      • Terry Tree Tree

        What is YOUR living wage?  What is the LEAST that you would clean septic tanks, risk your life fighting fires, teach a classroom of 40 underpriviledged children, be a guard at a prison, or ANY of the necessary, but dirty and dangerous jobs!

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Raising a family of three children by yourself?

          • notafeminista

            So your answer is “no” then.  An honest and/or living wage is not the same for you as it is for me.  As I don’t have children alone or otherwise that expense is not a factor for me.

            As for unpleasant jobs, I cleaned toilets and floors for 3.35 an hour.  What else would you like to know?

            Interesting contrast you bring with the school teacher and the firefighter.  Schoolteacher is in a reasonably climate controlled environment with comparatively little worry about the ceiling collapsing at any given moment.  The firefighter of course has neither of those things, but works on average, 10 days a month.  So who should be paid more?

  • Guest

    Here’s what the 99% movement means to me.  Nearly all lived wantonly before the 2008 bust, and so if we bailout some, we should bailout all.  And after we are over the hump, I want the free market to be that: free.  Which means banks should fail, and people should take responsibility for their actions.  And we should legislate a way to encourage every entity to live within their means which include things like campaign finance reform.But no where here do I want to target the rich, or people who got their handouts.  And that’s what I see the movement doing.  100% of people accept the government handouts that are given to them from medicaid, unemployment, to bank bailouts.  By occupying rich neighborhoods, the movement sends a message to me that they target affluent people unfairly and unjustly, and that they want to address symptoms not causes, and that’s why I can’t get behind this movement.Busybee emotional outcries feel good, but it’s not effective.  Both parties will just exploit that.  Redirect your efforts.  Get your lawyers out, and let’s get some real changes made please.   The side benefit is that this doesn’t require sitting outside in the cool weather or getting your forehead bloody and you’ll get alot more people to join.

    • Anonymous

      Guest, there’s much to agree with there but I have one problem: you seem fall into the either/or habit.  No one is targeting the rich just to target the rich.  The point is, many of “the rich” did the equivalent of breaking into our homes and taking away half of our means of living.  I don’t honest want that to become okay, or just something one lets pass in order to have some sort of reconciliation.  I’d like to see a payback. My access to Medicare does not balance out the financial malfeasance wiping out half my savings. 

      What we have to do is much harder than just making sure the tax collectors do a fair job — that the numbers are fair and the punishments for underpaying are fair across the board.  We have to change ourselves.  We have to move from living in a society in which money/gain/success/consumption are Good, and poverty/joblessness/failure/saving are punished.  Art isn’t Good because the artist made a profit.  Life isn’t Good because you wind up with all the toys. But too many of us think Having More is a worthy “American value.”  Erasing that from our culture isn’t the job of a legislature; it’s our job.

      I don’t know if OWS is sitting around discussing that kind of thing.  But I’m damned if I’ll condemn them for symbolic walks or old-fashioned protesting.  They’re making us sit up and question our values, and that more than serves us:  it’s a real gift.

      (BTW:  “Government handouts” = our help given to those who need our help.  That’s an American tradition, and a good one.)

    • Anonymous

      So you don’t have a problem with people paying only 15% for income made from dividends. You don’t have any problems of banks running wild with fees and using the credit card fees as a legal loan sharking.
      You don’t have a problem with the fact that for most Americans wages have been flat for over 30 years while the 1% to 2% at the top have been getting richer off the rest of us. You don’t seem to see that that the system does not work the way you describe it. It’s a shame that your Libertarian ideology has clouded your vision.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Many of the ‘handouts’ you list are receiving a form of insurance payment from a policy paid by the recipient!!

  • Anonymous

    Robert Reich gets it right: THE SEVEN BIGGEST ECONOMIC LIES
    http://robertreich.org/

  • Emjones
    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

      yeah, yeah, blah, blah.     

      Look, everyone knows about the lopsided wealth distribution and about lack of healthcare and families becoming homeless, etc, etc.  

      But how is Occupy Wall Street planning to change this?     The only occupation that matters is “occupy Congress”, which the political right is doing very well.      America is a very conservative country which was made quite clear  last year when the right not only took over the House, but won 2/3′s of the Senate races.    Furthermore the Democrats are, themselves, just corporate shills as any glance at who their largest donors are.      Dreaming that some strong progressive political movement is going to emerge in America requires some seriously mind-altering drugs.

      • Bgaidry

        We don’t need a political movement, Peter. We just need to walk away, and create something that works better for us. So called “civilization”, particularly corporate capitalist civilization, can’t work without our considerable participation.

        Look closer at what’s happening on the ground. People from all walks of life have come
        together, not merely to discuss the problems with civilization, but to share solutions. And while they share solutions, they are
        simultaneously sharing their space, their food, their wisdom and every body and mind gets feds.

        Our so-called “civilization doesn’t work for 99% of us, so, like the Olmecs, Mayans, Hohokum and every other society that has experimented with “civilization” before us, we are walking away to pursue something that works better.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

          A handful of malcontents will “walk away”.   Until they get sick and need something only a civilization can supply like a hospital or medical technology.   And when they find out they can’t get it because they have no insurance they’ll regret not building a political movement to make real changes.

          As I’ve said a dozen times now, the only place the protesters should be aiming to occupy is Congress, and if they are not prepared for the sheer amount or organizing and grass-roots work and time that takes, then they are wasting their time.

  • John Mc

    set up voter registration booths at all locations and start a drive. Make it an event to show your registration card and track the numbers. Have bill writing and legislative seminars on site with willing participants to understand how to draft proposals, what else are you going to do all day? The movement is understandable but to get any attention participants must start showing they have a relative impact, thousands of likely voters will get the attention they desire, i gurantee it!

    John in Murfeesboro, TN

    • John Mc

      sorry, Murfreesboro, TN

    • TFRX

      Voter registration is something we call all agree on in a democracy.

      Except when it isn’t. Thanks, Republicants!

  • Corb

    If I were to buy a hammer, I’d pay  sales tax; if I were to buy $50,000 of stock, I’d pay no sales tax. Banks are considering a transaction fee, and the government wants to tax it. Instead, how about if there were to be a transaction fee on stock trades? How about if, in addition to a broker’s fee, trades were taxed at, say, 10 cents a share. At current trading volumes, that would generate $160 billion in annual revenue. Or why not a sales tax on dollar amount traded? ( charge the “wealthy” shares more than the “poor” shares). Mom and Pop trade a couple of times a year, and wouldn’t have to pay much; but the day traders, and market manipulators, would pay more for the privilege of wreaking havoc on the market. 

    The headline said Cain accused the Wall Street Protesters of being jealous.  Warren Buffet is not “jealous” when he points out that there is tax inequality, and the inequality is legislated.  People protest because they have passion and because they feel there is injustice, etc., not because they’re jealous.  

    • Anonymous

      The idea of a tax, about 1% on stock sales has been around for a while. I’ve heard Robert Reich and others talk about this.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

      People protest because they have passion and because they feel there is injustice, etc., not because they’re jealous. 

      How is that going to translate into winning elections?     If you want to change anything you have to occupy Congress with elected progressives.  

      • Anonymous

        Please explain what a progressive stands for?  Are you like Hillary and define progressives in the early american progressive movement of the early 1900′s?

      • http://www.facebook.com/WildManBrainiac John Eller

        there are currently very few candidates worthy of occupying congress.  the system of getting them there is rigged with money, recently expanded and blessed by the supreme court.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QME6C6XTBAYFEJP2GYDH3VQEMU Beat

    As a Filipino immigrant. I am happy to see the American people marching on streets of America. As you know we Filipinos has been marching since the Marcos regime and our demonstrations has never stop to this day. From the May One Movement (KMU) and to the radical women’s right activist group Gabriela in the Philippines. We support the American people. I am glad and happy to see the American people are rising up and defending their civil rights, to demonstrate peacefully all over America.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

      So you’ve been protesting since 1986 . . . . lessee -  that’s 25 years.   So how has that worked out?     Last I checked the Philippines was still poor, corrupt, and divided, with most of the wealth and land in the hands of a few elites.  

  • Bgaidry

    As the empire’s corporate moguls look down upon the protests from their glass and steel towers, people from all walks of life have come together, not merely to complain about civilizations many problems, but simultaneously manifesting a new equitable society, complete with their own kitchens and libraries, where every body and mind gets fed.

    This scenario says it all for me. It’s the miracle of the loaves and fishes, where the 99% find ourselves with less to own, but more to share. and it is being repeated hundreds, thousands of times, all over the world, and it’s growing daily.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

      . . .  doesn’t this just make you want to go down to your local Unitarian church basement, and stand in a circle, hold hands, and sing “Kumbayah”?

      Meanwhile the political right and Democratic corporate shills occupy Congress.   What’s the plan to change that?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QME6C6XTBAYFEJP2GYDH3VQEMU Beat

    As a Filipino immigrant. I am happy to see the American people marching on streets of America. As you know we Filipinos has been marching since the Marcos regime and our demonstrations has never stop to this day. from the May One Movement (KMU) and to the radical women’s right activist group Gabriela. I am glad and happy to see the American people rising up and defending their civil rights, to demonstrate peacefully all over America.

    • Anonymous

      Demonstrations are only useful if they are trying to push the country towards a good goal.  The Occupy Wall Street Movement is trying to push the US towards revolution.  Revolution is NOT good!

      • Anonymous

        Well now, I guess you’re a Torry after all.
        Are you aware that this kind of sentiment was the exact kind of rhetoric that the Royalist used against the like of Adams, Jefferson, Franklin, Hamilton, and Washington to name a few.

      • http://www.facebook.com/WildManBrainiac John Eller

        >Revolution is NOT good!

        Would this have been your position in a debate with Thomas Jefferson?

  • Corb

      Sell your home and make $250,000 profit: no tax owed.  Work five years to earn the same amount: $75,000 taxes owed.  Gross tax policy inequality.

    • Anonymous

      How did you come up with this? I think in my state I would pay taxes on the sale of my home. Not so much in Capital gains, but still this comment is not dealing with the truth.

      • Corb

        I spoke to the IRS this week and it is true.  If you live in your home for two years, and make $250,000 profit (filed jointly), you will pay no capital gains.  The old rule was that you had to immediately reinvest in another property to escape taxes, but the new rule does not require reinvestment.  Many people are losing money on their houses, but the “wealthy” who make large profits on expensive properties are exempt from paying the tax.

        “Sell your home and make $250,000 profit: no tax owed.  Work five years to earn the same amount: $75,000 taxes owed.  Gross tax policy inequality.” 

        • Anonymous

          I knew that this law was changed. I’m not sure it’s such a huge thing when one compares this the 15% that people pay in investment dividends, that to me is more of a problem than the capital gains on property. Especially when you sell a house you are going to be paying state and local taxes.

        • Anonymous

          I knew that this law was changed. I’m not sure it’s such a huge thing when one compares this the 15% that people pay in investment dividends, that to me is more of a problem than the capital gains on property. Especially when you sell a house you are going to be paying state and local taxes.

      • Corb

        You’re saying it doesn’t deal with truth is based on nothing.  It’s such inequality that it’s hard to believe.

    • notafeminista

      Welllllll now.  You left a little bit out didn’t you?

      • Corb

        I spoke to the IRS this week and it is true.  If you live in your home for two years, and make $250,000 profit (filed jointly), you will pay no capital gains.  The old rule was that you had to immediately reinvest in another property to escape taxes, but the new rule does not require reinvestment.  Many people are losing money on their houses, but the “wealthy” who make large profits on expensive properties are exempt from paying the tax.I left out that some people have lived in their houses their whole lives.  If so, give a once-in-a-lifetime exemption.  Why give someone the exemption every two years?

  • Dave in CT

    Dear Tom,

    Please raise the issue/viewpoint, that if Americans truly want fundamental reforms that hold both Washington and Wall St. accountable to the People (that is still our model is it not?), then we need to focus on the points of intersection between the grass roots Tea Party, and the more sober members of the Occupy Wall St folks.

    Otherwise we are simply being divided and conquered by the elite status quo.

    Thank you.

    • ebw343

      Exactly. Trouble is, once the big money slipped into the Tea Party movement they were so easily misdirected towards’ those interests’ aims. Now, the vast majority of rank-and-file tea partiers are tightly sewn up into the Fox News bubble where they’ll never hear the slightest positive word about the Occupy movement.

      • Dave in CT

        And the pump up your overtime to get a juicy retirement Unions that support the Democratic party are moving in too.

        Just stop blaming the grassroots Tea Party people, and do the hard work of understanding what they are trying to say, and where the common ground is.

        Its our only hope. Socialism is not going to come at the ballot box in the USA.

        But a more populist, libertarian argument against Big Power in Washington and Wall St./Banks has a chance.

        Small Government enforcing a strong/fair Rule of Law against collusive Bankers and politicians/Government agencies.

        Its really not that radical a notion.

  • Anonymous

    I walked by the Boston protest and it looks like it is the same people who protest everything.  I’m in agreement with what I think the aims of the protesters are but I don’t think this is very effective.  Vote out the Republicans and hold the Democrats accountable.  Even in an economy with full employment, most of these people wouldn’t have jobs. 

    • Anonymous

      How do you know? When I read comments like yours I see this as part of the problem, not the solution.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      I’m with you on this one.  These people sound like every protestor I’ve met.  Against everything, with no clear plan for changing things.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Against everything?  Protesting themselves?  Protesting those against the GREEDY rich?
           Generalizations like yours, show the ignorance of the GREEDY rich!

  • Moon

    Would someone please explain what is meant by ‘corportations’ being looked at in the courts as individuals …  or something like that.  Somehow they have the rights of a person ???

    • Anonymous

      Moon, it’s a complicated history which, with the help of Wikipedia, I’ll condense into this:

      “In the United States, corporations were recognized as having rights to contract, and to have those contracts honored the same as contracts entered into by natural persons, in Dartmouth College v. Woodward, decided in 1819. In the 1886 case Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad, 118 U.S. 394, the Supreme Court recognized that corporations were recognized as persons for purposes of the Fourteenth Amendment.”

      Fast forward to last year when corporations were given, by the Supreme Court, greater ability to influence elections through contributions than individual citizens are allowed under law, thus making them not just “persons” but “superpersons” with special privileges and the ability to determine who reaches the White House, who sits in Congress as well as the ability to do so anonymously.

      “Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission (2010) the Supreme Court of the United States held that corporate funding of independent political broadcasts in candidate elections cannot be limited under the First Amendment, overruling Austin (1990) and partly overruling McConnell (2003).”

      • Moon

        Thanks..  I’ll try looking more into this further.   :)

    • litekeep

      Citizens United ruling by the Supreme Court said that corporations are like individuals and had the right to contribute much as they wanted toward political campaigns w/o limit.

    • Lee

      Hi Moon,

      There were supreme court decisions in the nineteen century. I can’t remember the name of the plantiffs, though I believe Dartmouth College was one.

  • Dpweber83

    Gotta be kidding me, Jon Phoenix…less than a quarter of Americans have a college degree, you don’t get to put the concerns of recent college grads at the forefront and still call yourself the 99%.

    -dan
    boston, ma

  • Cory

    I love (hate?) all the usual conservative voices here who are so sure that they know the character and identity of these protesters.  They are lazy ne’er-do-wells who majored in English in college and may or may not have gotten their degrees.  They are perpetual protesters, hippy dippys who use drugs and may not smell so good.  They are certainly living on the government “dole” (whatever the hell that is).

    It may benefit the protesters to not be understood by the righties in this country at this point.  We may need more time and anger for this movement to mature.  If it were fully understood now, the establisment might take some half hearted measure to try to placate the dissent.

    Things are going to get worse in America, not better.  What we these protesters look like as months and years pass?

  • jim

    I really support this movement. our democracy is at stake. lobbyists and corporations are controlling almost every aspects of our government. we can only take back america if we voice our opinions openly. this movement will not only save our country but also everyone else..

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Let’s see:  So far, one guy is against high tuition, and one girl wants to feel the energy.  Yup.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Well, you have reasons for two.  Are you going to personally intervies each and every one of the protesters throughout the U.S., to find their reason for protest, or are you going to generalize, based on an infitisimally small poll?

  • Bill

    There are not nearly enough parallels drawn between now and 100 years ago. We’ve been here already.

  • Gregg

    I wonder if the protesters are upset about Solyndra and now Sunpower which is twice as bad? Or “Fast and Furious”?

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Actually, I’m sure that those are two of thousands of things they are upset about!  They seem to be ALL you are upset about.

  • Dave in CT

    Remember, the “Business Cycle” is a business now.  The collusion of the Federal Reserve who pumps the bubbles, Wall St. who uses it to gain trading fees and margin interest in the boom, and short the bust, and the centralized Washington cronies who are greased by them, and play along for either misguided, well intentioned, or more corrupt reasons.

    Investigate the mechanisms of the Business cycle, and those who profit from it.  Keep the fire on Bankers and Washington cronies, including the misconception that a big, centralized government will use its power benevolently.

    If you really care about the People, keep the power in their hands, and thats a more libertarian view than socialist.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Didn’t we hear enough about consciousnesss during the Deepak Chopra hour?  Enough blather, please.

    • http://www.facebook.com/WildManBrainiac John Eller

      non sequiturs from a troll

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        A troll is off topic.  I simply disagree.

  • Anonymous

    About the Education concern…

    The only reason kids NEED to go to college is that corporations are SHIRKING their responsibility to provide for their own qualified work force.

    It used to be corporations hired kids out of high school and put them into Internship programs that gave them a targeted education so they could do the exact job they were hired to do.

    I cannot think of a more efficient way to train people than to have the corporations train their own work force…  But with a Quarterly Earnings driven market place the bottom line trumps common sense every day.

  • John – Williamstown, VT

    We need a money strike – you vote is NOT your voice – only money talks – all the rest walk.  Both Wall St and Washington have become addicted to regular feedings from the pocketbooks of working Americans.

    If you work, go go to HR and raise your deductions to 12 – put a hold on 401K and IRA regular deductions.  Whether you work or not, find a credit union near you and join up today.  Then, have your paycheck direct deposited into that account.

    Stop feeding the twin monsters of Wall Street and Washington – do it today – do it now!

  • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

     saw the Occupiers on Monday. I got stucked in traffic for an hour at north station because of the rally, and Zombies? the protestors are aggressive compared to Civil rights movement of the 60′s and 70′s. It is now time for America to SPEAK UP SO LOUD so the government and wall street can hear our frustrations. 
    I am not there on the streets but those people are representing

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Representing what?  The guests are incoherent.  Perhaps you can tell us what they stand for?

      • http://www.facebook.com/WildManBrainiac John Eller

        the GUESTS are incoherent????  they could not be more clear and articulate.  the filters on mr. camp’s ears need to be changed or removed.

      • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

        They represents me for they are the voices of my frustrations they voice my anger and especially for the middle class Americans.

        that’s is my own perspective. individual freedom has individual circumstances.

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

          Good luck getting anything done with that.

    • John – Williamstown, VT

      It’s a movement of general frustration – it was started by recent college grads who realized that the economic deck was stacked against them.  Since then it has grown to all the segments who realize that the American “dream” has been hijacked – no matter where you are in life except if you are in the top 1%.  By the way – to top 1% still represents 3 million people – a better than mid-sized city.

      • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

        I saw the Occupiers and they reminded me of being in Manila in the 70s. 80s,90s and present. I was happy a weird feeling that I never felt since 1986.

        “The Power of the People can send goose bumps all over me”

    • Lydia

      This surprises me- I suppose there were different sections of marchers, but over 4 hours I was surrounded by marchers (students, educators, nurses, laborers, veterans, etc) who were peaceful, cooperative, and upbeat. All along the route people cheered us on! It seemed to me that the negative incidents occurred after the main march ended, and hence the march of well over a thousand people didn’t get much news attention.

  • Francisco

    Parents better listen! Our kids have learned their college readings and lessons well. They are asking why our promises of a better future are not being realized. We are the ones who should know better, we are the adults. We better give them a profound answer. Do not dismiss their questionings, do not ask our kids to come out with solutions. We are the ones supposed to create the solutions. Get to work!

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    What do we need?  Prozac!  When do we need it?  Now!

    • Terry Tree Tree

      So take your Prozac!  I don’t!

  • Hromero10

    Boston Police trampled peaceful demonstrators. T.V only showed people being carried out, no one showed the beatings on senior veterans, women and others. One girl had an eye exploded, there were people being billy clubbed upside the head, kicked on the ground, ganged up by four five cops.

    This is a youth movement, and like a teenager, when you push them, they will push right back – even harder, because teenagers have more energy than adults and they will prevail. This movement will prevail over any suppression because this is a youth movement, not just a bunch cranky white people.

  • Cory

    Meanwhile, in the backround the US is signing free trade agreements with South Korea, Colombia, and Panama.  Just what we need right now, MORE GLBALIZED FREE TRADE!

  • jem248

    I am thrilled and excited by all the demonstrations; I am 58 and marched in the anti-war actions in the late 1960′s.

    I also want a shout-out to Nancy Pelosi who is answering Eric Cantor’s ridiculous attacks by affirming our constitutional right to protest.

    • notafeminista

      How come you don’t like the same right for anyone else?

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Your proof?

  • Bay State Librul

    “I think it urgent for American democracy that citizens should not relinquish the vital weapon of civil disobedience….”

    Howad Zinn, Disobedience and Democracy

  • litekeep

    Go Occupy!  Go!!

    and

    Go and Occupy!

    Also, from Harry Belafonte this morning:
    “Don’t ever let injustice go by unchallenged.”
    AMEN!

  • Pepi

    What’s the Message that they’re trying to convey, beyond the fact that they’re unhappy?  Do they have a proposed solution?  It’s easy to throw stones, a bit more difficult to actually fix and build things.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      True.  What is YOUR solution?  Or, are you just throwing stones?

  • Jromanovich

    The revolution has begun!
    I’m originally from the Boston area and presently live in South Florida.  At the north and south bound exits to I-95 at Cypress Creek Road are a couple of nicely presented banners with ten large letters spelling out:  REVOLUTION.
    Hey, how about throwing bundles of Collaterialized Debt Obligations and Credit Default Swaps into Boston Harbor, along with quite a few politicians and financial institution/wall street types!
    ~j.~

  • Anonymous

    The Tea Party isn’t extreme.  It is supporting Traditional American values and the Constitution!

    • Dpweber83

      Oh for god’s sake…

    • Brett

      Silly goose, that’s the TAC Party! …Sorry, I stand corrected; they also insist on fresh breath and are called the TIC TAC Party!

    • ulTRAX

      As usual B, your mindless drive by comments are devoid of reality. The Tea Crackpots aren’t FOR the Constitution any more than they are for fiscal responsibility. They are right wing Republicans who EXCUSE any illegal or fiscally irresponsible actions by the GOP and feign indignation against the Dems. They aren’t patriots, they’re HYPOCRITES!

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Corporations are citizens?  NO TEA Party demands for Valid, Certified, U.S. Birth Certificates for ALL of them, foreign or domestic?  Helping the major polluters to be able to pollute MORE, with impunity?  Using their wealth to subjugate more of the population?  Endorsing policies that exploit others, in ways that they will NOT endure? 
          These are your Traditional American Values?
          They VIOLATE many of the values stated in the U.S. Constitution!

  • Corythatcher

    Thanks to On Point for using a picure of a hippy wannabe making a peace sign with a stoned look on her face.  Good way to color the debate.

  • Lee

    I think the movement speaks for the 99% when the issue is bringing those in the financial services sector to justice.

     I think almost 99%, almost, agree that wars are crippling this nation.

    But on some of the other issues, i think there is a narrow margin. That is not to say that we shouldn’t discuss these issues.

    It is a hard, hard time. But it is an opportunity to push through our national gridlock.

  • http://www.facebook.com/WildManBrainiac John Eller

    The guests interviewed so far at the half-way point are refreshingly bright and articulate – so much better than the usual pundits and far better than politicians at expressing themselves and seeing the larger picture.  Forgive the cliche, but they make the future seem bright.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Apparently bright and articulate means something different to you from what it means to me.  These children are incoherent.

  • Dave in CT

    We are screwed. We have too many people, and the organic model of simply being sober and working to better your life is being challenged by the strain on resources. And frankly, by our mindless rejection of a connection to the labor of our food and shelter, exchanging it for urban and suburban consumerism, and an incredible sense of entitlement in the largest sense.

    Our consumerism, greed, and predictable desire for the free lunch and clean fingernails, has been played by the elite to perfection. We bear alot of the blame for such a lack of vigilance and connection to reality.

    • Cory

      Good stuff!  Bravo Dave!

  • Hana

    I love and support all those thinking individuals NOT being sheep. But as the young woman said in the beginning; the system is so broken, people’s opinions don’t seem to matter. I don’t see the politicians worried or even interested, getting involved and trying to look at the issues people are talking and worried about. I am afraid that help is NOT on the way.

  • quadraticus

    Ah, now that we’ve been through Stalinism and Maoism and other -isms, we’ve finally figured out how to force people to contribute their labor for free to their rich overlords without using violence. Force without violence: it sounds counterintuitive, but I *swear* THIS time we’ve got it figured out!

  • Lydia

    In Boston on Monday I experienced 4 hours of amazing solidarity, peaceful marching, almost zero opposition, and total police cooperation during the march.  What ended up on the news was the final several minutes of confusion over whether to “take the bridge” or not, ignoring the preceding FOUR hours, and then coverage of the arrests at the base camp. Boston police did not shut down the authorized camp, only the expansion, which was considered trespassing. These arrests took place SEVEN hours after the march!I find it frustrating that the media only shows the most sensational footage, and that some of the more hard-line participants in the movement command all the attention and force the public perception away from the main common goals and points!

    • Dpweber83

      “I find it frustrating that the media only shows the most sensational footage, and that some of the more hard-line participants in the movement command all the attention”

      I find it fascinating that you didn’t expect this.

      -dan
      Boston, MA

    • Terry Tree Tree

      The GREEDY rich don’t want your ideas and actions portrayed accurately!  They would have to admit you  make sense, and they don’t!

    • notafeminista

      Admit it…it was the zero opposition you liked the best wasn’t it?  No one challenging the movement, no one questioning the motives, no one…expressing the same freedom of speech the movement enjoys.  THAT’S that part you dug the most wasn’t it?

  • Viva La…

    Our integrity sells for so little, but it is all we really have. It is the very last inch of us, but within that inch, we are free. Don’t sell your self short. So many of us have worked so hard just to have it taken away, this is the American Nightmare, but it’s time to wake up.

  • Badolliecat

    Protest is bringing forth news that the corporate owned media has and continues to try to suppress which keeps citizens unaware and that’s why most main stream outlets and corporate owned politicians are trying to degrade it.
    Occupy Wall St protests remind us of where and promote why the state of our nation is in this situation rather than promoting instant amnesia with stories about movie star weddings, etc.
    When you know something then you can work on the problems and promote the good.
    Thanks OWS!

  • Dave in CT

    Ready for Socialism?

    God help us. And I’m an atheist.

    For crying out loud you intellectual fearer’s of freedom, read The Road to Serfdom and demonstrate that you understand the message.

    You’ll listen to Nobel Paul Krugman, now listen to Nobel A.F. Hayek.

    This is insanity!

    • Anonymous

      The people in Norway aren’t living in oppression.  Being serfs to corporations isn’t freedom either.

      • Anonymous

        Yet they don’t have as good a life as we have right here, right now, in the USA!

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

          How is it that the Norwegians have a life of less quality than ours?

          • ebw343

            By what standard? They drive smaller cars? They tend to live either in big cities or villages rather than suburban sprawl?

          • Anonymous

            The only thing I could think of is that they eat lutefisk.

          • Anonymous

            Are you willing to move to Norway? or already live there?  Why not?

        • Mark M.

          Wrong.

      • Dave in CT

        Going to Norway? China? That would be the peaceful way to live how you wish. Or looking for blood in the streets here to end the American experiment in liberty?

  • Dpweber83

    I consider myself a progressive, but if Occupy Wall Street is serious about a revolution, then count me out.  There’s no way in hell I’d ever take up arms for something so ill-defined.

    -dan
    Boston, MA

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    They’re engaging and expressing.  Uh huh–engaging in what, other than blocking traffic?  Expressing what, other than being a bunch of whiners?

  • Mike

    Back in 1987 I was working for the 13th largest S&L in the country.  Due to poor management, the bank went bankrupt.  The senior management parachuted out with multi millions in compensation.  I left with no such pay.  A short time later I was working for an insurance company in the DC area which was seized by regulators because the senior management was using the company funds to fund their lifestyle and again found myself out of work.  In 2001 I found myself working for a company that just relocated from one small town in New York to another.  The company received a huge amount of tax payer assistance to keep the company in New York State (even though the company had no plan to move from New York, they were just looking to see if they could get some money from New York state and they got it).  Then the family owned company sold the company to a French company and laid off hundreds of people.  The owner walked away with hundreds of millions and I walked to the unemployment line.  I was out of work for months.  Finally found work, taking a 20,000 pay cut.  While I was out of work, we ran up credit card bills trying to keep food on the table.  That position didn’t last.  Found myself out of work again.  Finally found work after being out of work for 8 months, making more than I made in my last job, but still not what I was making in 2001.  Now, this company is pulling out of North America.  I will be loosing my job soon.  We were able to avoid bankruptcy the last three times I was out of work, but may not be able to avoid it this time.  I work hard.  Pay my bills.  But, it pisses me off when the guys at the top constantly whine about helping out the middle class when they don’t do a damn thing but look out for themselves with no regard for there responsibility to the rest of us.

    • Bay State Librul

      Thanks for sharing your story.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Yet, those management that ruined the companies, will tell you they deserve that gross compensation!

  • Bill

    Mobs are what it’s going to take to bring about change.

    Labor concessions, entitlements to the middle class and poor last century was not a gift glady handed down by the rich. It was the 1% looking at the assets of the 1%’s in other countries being nationalized and giving much what we take for granted in this country out of fear of the 99%.

    • Anonymous

      What change do you want to bring about?

  • mary elizabeth

    There are so many people in this country who are hurting through no fault of their own–veterans and college grads with no job prospects, 55 year old laid off after years of employmenr, seniors whose IRA’s, hard won, through years of service to an employer are  diminishing, foreclosed homes, those without basic health care,
    Something is very wrong with the system that should have been foreseen by those whose job it is to manage while most assumed they were doing the right things.
    .
    One OWSer said it well=”We want to come out of our homes and apts and towns and cities and talk to each other”   in a state of the nation gone haywire.  The anger and frustration is the only human response to being  scammed by near evil politicians and financial gurus.
    The Washington political scene is a disgrace.  Greed rules the day,
    Let us hope that OWS continues until the NEEDS of the common man are considered-jobs, healthcare, right education not just for some but for all.

    • Dave in CT

      Yeah, we all drank the sense of entitlement Kool-Aid.

      That’s the catch of freedom, you need to think critically for yourself first, and be honest, sober and educated enough to do it.

      Folks who are afraid or too lazy for freedom, or don’t trust others with it, are never going to take it away from the people in this country who value it for the historical gift it is, with all its warts.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        READ the post, please!   READ the one by Mike at 10:29.  These are examples of people that are lazy, lemmings?

  • Scott B, Jamestown NY

    It’s funny how when it was the beginnings of the TEA Party (before they got co-opted by the Koch brothers and the Republican party) they were protesting much the same thing : Unfair taxes (anyone else remember that it’s Taxed Enough Already), bailouts of bank too big to fail and without strings, corporate greed, stagnant wages, and the demise of the middle class.  After the TEA Party was co-opted those crowds were “Patriotic Americans” to Cantor, Cain, Wall St, the NRA,  et al.  But now the people protesting the same things,and  in a very peaceful manner , are  “unpatriotic ‘mobs’ “, ignorant hippies, people that failed to get a job and become rich, and the “unwashed masses” of Ayn Rand.

    When we saw the TEA partiers gathering I also saw them carrying guns, including outside venues where President Obama was speaking.

    So now we have a movement that’s getting some traction in the media and America, and doing it in the way the Americans are Constitutionally guaranteed and doing so peacefully, which was more than what can be said for the event that the TEA Party was named after. 

    So my question to the TEA Party is: Why do you fear what you wanted?

    • Dave in CT

      When did the Tea Party, contemporary, or historic, want Socialism?

      • Scott B, Jamestown NY

        I didn’t say socialism. The wanted what the protestors want – Better capitalism. We already have socialism – A standing armed service, public schools, public highways and infrastructure, police… We, as a society, pay for those because we, as a society, agreed a long time ago that those, and many other things, would be a good idea for society.

        The TEA party is backed by people that would seek to end schooling for their children, I wonder if they know that?  And these are the same people that often were heard saying in town hall meetings, when threatened to have their social safety nets of Sec Sec , Medicare, et al, taken away – “Get your government hands of my money!”  Excuse me, but whose money?….

        There seems to be this big ignorance from the TEA party, and the Right in general, that “socialism” is somehow “communism”. That to be socialist means we’re living Orwell’s “Animal Farm”, and we’re all working on a commune, wearing burlap sacks, and eating black bread.

         Reagan get’s deified by the Right and many of his ideas run contrary to what the Right seeks now and would be considered “socialism” by that side. The thing he seemed to beat on was that, somehow,  if you have nationalized medicine that it was “socialism” and the end of free society.  How does that figure? Only the US and about 5 other countries (all dictatorshisp) don’t have socialized medicine. Those countries that do have national health care spend less money and have better outcomes, and no one goes bankrupt because they had to spend thousands and thousand of dollars in the ER and aftercare for a sprained ankle, cold, or heart attack.

        The French former head of the IMF is socialist and filthy rich! Socialism isn’t tantamount to living in a third-world country and not being able to make it big. 

        Do yourself a favor ad look up what socialism really, and start looking at your local government, likie when you see a cop drive by on that freshly plowed street you’re driving on while you take your kids to school.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      AWESOME QUESTION!! Scott.

  • Lexipitre

    I have a few ideas for taking the protest to another level especially for those of us who are NOT in a major city. 
    1. Take your money back!  If you have funds in a banking system that is part of the problem move it to a local bank that has local interests.  It’s your money, you should have more of a voice in what it’s doing out there.
    2. Urge your local big box stores to change their buying patterns to local sources.  If only Wal-Mart returned to it’s initial policy of buying American made products from American manufacturers it could shift the entire economic base more toward production rather than consumption.  The Pill:  Fewer bank perks and extras (but those are disappearing anyway)
    and you might have to pay more for goods (but I think we could all do with a little less if the quality of the goods is improved)

    Anyone want to discuss further email at lexipitre@gmail:disqus.com
    Alexis Braud
    Grand Isle, LA

  • Anonymous

    Isn’t it true that the difference between the Tea Party and the Occupy movement is the Tea Party wants to make America better and the Occupy movement wants the US to have a revolution (which is most likely to be violent and cause thousands of people to loose their lives and millions of people to loose their livelihoods)

    • Dpweber83

      Yes, absolutely, that’s completely true: one side wants to make America “better” and the other doesn’t, so obviously, one side is Good while the other is Bad.

      Yours is a supple and fertile mind, Brandstad.

      -dan
      Boston, MA

      • Anonymous

        I am sorry if your simple mind can’t comprehend simple english, but I will put it in even simpler terms so you don’t have to strain too much to understand. 

        Tea Party – seeks to return the US to its prior greatness by returning the power (not specifically listed in the US Constitution) of the US government closer to the people, (state and local)

        Occupy Movement – Seeks to start a Revolution in the US and by doing so throwing out the constitution and remaking the US into something else that isn’t defined yet.

        If you disagree, please list what the Occupy Movement seeks to accomplish.

        • Dpweber83

          “Tea Party – seeks to return the US to its prior greatness by returning the power (not specifically listed in the US Constitution) of the US government closer to the people, (state and local)”

          So, in your mind, America’s “prior greatness” had nothing to do with tons of natural resources or cheap labor or anything like that, but with strict federalism?  Care to back that up?

          “If you disagree, please list what the Occupy Movement seeks to accomplish.”

          No thanks; I’ve said repeatedly in this comments section that I’m not one of them.

          -dan
          Boston, MA

    • Gregg

      It’s absolutely true. The left wants their own “tea party” so bad they’ll even settle for this.

      • TFRX

        How can it be their own tea party without the Foxholers whoring it at every turn, or Foxnation staging events?

        • Anonymous

          Why would the Dems Need FOX when they have NPR, ABC, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, along with most of the internet like the Huf Post.

          • TFRX

            Nice Polite Republicans? All those corporate-owned companies who take their cues from Fox? CNN, which is reginning its coverage to draw Teabaggers’ eyeballs?

            Sure, jes keep thinking that. Try some media crit sometime.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Answer Scott’s 10:30 post, please?

  • ebw343

    In reply to caller Phil:

    -There is NO “far left” anywhere near the corridors of power in Washington. Even Bernie Sanders and Barney Frank believe in capitalism, regulated where needed to place the needs of people before those of corporations.

    -President Obama had been flying the flag of compromise for most of his Presidency until the last few months. Look where it got him, dumped on by his own base and still characterized as a “left-wing extremist” and every kind of scary “ism” they could think of by the Republicans.

  • Anonymous

    There are a lot of messages associated with this movement and all of them need to be voiced.

    Maybe now Democrats will take 10 minutes and consolidate their messages to ONE SENTENCE easily rememberd slogans.

  • anna

    It is amazing to find out more about our “democracy”. Would you care to list all the rules about assembling and protesting in public? The show would not be long enough.

  • notafeminista

    Shucks I wish I could afford to take an indefinite vacation on the streets of Manhattan.  Dang.

    • Brett

      Many of the people (who live in the City) are going before/after work, etc. Your perceptions are not accurate. 

      • TFRX

        Depends on where one gets one’s perceptions.

        If Fox & Friends is the background to somebody’s breakfast or coffee break, then the original poster can’t be any more well-informed than Steve Doucy is. (And that’s a shudderingly low bar.)

        • notafeminista

          Good thing I don’t own a television huh?

    • Karen

      You sir are not wise.  These are the people who will one day change your bed pan and you dismiss them?  Your old age will not be one of happiness or grace.

      • notafeminista

        My old age will be whatever I make of it. We come into the world alone and we leave it alone.  No amount of anything from anyone can change that fact.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Must be terrible to be that lonely and alone!  King Midas with his Golden Daughter?

          • notafeminista

            You tell me ….when I am on my deathbed about to face whatever does or does not come next….who exactly will accompany me?

      • TFRX

        PSST: Don’t tell him about that program keeping seniors out of dire poverty since the 1930s. It has the side effect of making people whose parents and grandparents didn’t spend their every last cent, or didn’t go to the poorhouse, think they’ve gotten everywhere all by themselves.

    • John – Williamstown, VT

      Go on the weekend – go to the Occupy event closest to you.  I’m sure you take time to do the things you want to do.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      If you’re as rich as you infer, you could!  If NOT, you should!

      • notafeminista

        I did not imply I was rich.  You inferred I was rich.

  • John – Williamstown, VT

    The nexus between the Tea Party and Occupiers is that America has been hijacked.  Both movements display signs that say America is “OF the people, BY the people and FOR the people.”

    • Dpweber83

      If there is indeed a nexus between the Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street, then that’s precisely why I want nothing to do with either movement.

      -dan
      Boston, MA

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

      The difference between the Occupiers and the Tea Party is that only a year after the Tea Party was formed they had already become a potent national political force which handed the House back to the Republicans and helped propel a conservative Republican to the Senate from Massachusetts, the most Democratic state in the US.

      In other words, the Tea party is effective – they say they will do things and then they do it.   They said they would made the budget deficit the centerpiece of the platform and this summer they nearly shut down the government pushing through their agenda.   They said they would block tax increases and so far this year they did id twice!

      Can someone please show me a plausible scenario whereby the Occupy movement actually affects election and legislative outcomes  is a significant way over the next year or so, like the Tea Party did?

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Pre-judging, using a movement that was so obviously hijacked by big corporatocracy money?

  • Casey Carbonneau

    Nothing will turn the average American against you quicker than asking for Socialism. Demand policy change, not revolution.

    • TFRX

      Who is asking for socialism?

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        Jon Phoenix did

        • TFRX

          Sorry about that. I just sort of tuned out on him because of his previous words, which struck me as not really on point for the situation or the cause.

          (So many people have been saying “socialism” in the mainstream media since 2008 that it doesn’t even register with me.)

  • Terry Tree Tree

    Many of the biggest capatilists of the past, became some sort of socialist in their later years.  Philanthropy, building museums and libraries, and other ‘gifts’ to the public.  Many of them did such, to try to change their image from the GREEDY person they had been all their life!

  • John Mc

    can someone admit that captalism in its current form is not captalism by definition, when we have things like public risk and privatized revenues that IS socialism, i think OWL wants the country to operate in the form it was intended to be when created.

  • Mia

    It’s not like we have two options- socialism or an extremely broken version of the free market. WE CAN DO BETTER THAN BOTH OF THOSE!  We need to foster an economy that is resource based (and therefore, reality based). We need an election system that prevents or caps donations from corporations. We need legislative policies and government agencies that work for the people, not the corporation. 

  • Dave in CT

    Ron Paul is revolutionary, and he values liberty.

    Please, please, please! try his revolution of returning power to the people before you flush us down the toilet of debt and coercion-based socialism!

    He is anti-war and anti-big banking!

    Get educated before you so radically ditch the American experiment.

    Move to China!

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

      Ron Paul is revolutionary, and he values liberty.

      Ron Paul would be perfectly happy to see people who can’t afford health insurance die on the sidewalk in front of the hospital.

      • Dave in CT

        You guys love your spoon-fed TV red-herrings.  He was boxed into that non-answer, answer, when asked what should happen when a young, financially-capable person who chose not to get health insurance gets sick?

        Do you let this free-loader (not participating in our insurance system) just use the public dime and set the example that why should any of us bother having insurance, or do we demand some individual responsibility?

        A trap question to make him either take a bailout the irresponsible, or I am a heartless devil position.

        But why do you guys like to delude yourselves with this stuff and ignore his larger messages?

        It’s just like the mindless OWS parrots who know they should demand revolution or socialism, but can’t begin to explain how it would all work.

        Study some history, banking, socialism, communism, naziism, liberty etc etc etc.

      • Dave in CT

        Nice misquote. The question he answered was about a young person who could afford insurance but chose not to have it.

        You guys are hilarious, and scary.

    • Anonymous

      Ron Paul supports the freedom to not be helped by FEMA in a natural disaster.  The man is a nut.

      • Dave in CT

        Sorry, but with respect. you are a nut. That red herring is what holds you back from the much bigger picture?

        He would be all for states to do whatever they want for disaster preparedness, and for individuals and communities to rise to the occasion in a human way, in times of disaster. Wouldn’t you?

        The argument that the faults and long-term problems of centralizing our lives in DC are WORSE than the challenges we need to meet without it, is not that hard to appreciate.

        • Anonymous

          It isn’t a red herring.  One of the main functions of government is to provide for public safety.  I’d rather have professionals respond and be taxed to pay for it. 

  • Geoff – New Hampshire

    I can’t quite believe what I’m hearing.  I lean left, I vote democrat, but I can’t quite get over the silliness of this movement.  The “money class” or “constituency” is not a new phenomenon.  Our country has worked that way for a long time.  For better or worse, the structure of our society and economy encourages people to go out and create.  The alternatives are far inferior.  Do the guests think socialism is the answer?  Move to Cuba or some places in Europe.  This is fundamentally who we are.  I’m all for community activism as a means to counterbalance the political power of money in our country, and I feel for people in these hard economic times, but I wish some of this effort was going towards being entrepreneurial and creating something, rather than protesting the best system out there.

    • Heidi in DC

      The issue is not that there is a monied class, but that the distribution of wealth is becoming more extreme, that banks and corps run the gov’t (write the laws that regulate them), and that congress now answers to corps, not people.

      Socialism is simply a fair distribution of resources. Cuba is a communist country, not a socialist one. The socialist countries have better economic, health, and prosperity outcomes than the US. Our current system is not the best for everyone, but for the ones with wealth.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Wasn’t this country founded to refute the control of 99% by less than 1% of rich, uninformed, royalty?

  • Chris Kealey

    These protests will be a thing of the past as soon as the cold weather arrives.  90% of the so called 99% are busy working, trying to make the United States better.  The protesters better come to grips that every American now competes against every citizen of the planet.  The old rules are gone.

    We are so quick to demonize large corporations, wealthy individuals, etc.  Where do the cures for cancer come from, technology, modern lifestyles, etc….they come from private enterprise.  

    If you want to re-distribute wealth look at the disaster that the USSR was.  It is not realistic.

    • Mark M.

      Kealey is correct.  For the last 30 years US wealth has been re-distributed from the middle class to the ultra rich.  If it isn’t changed then we will have a USSR type disaster.

      • Dave in CT

        Thanks Fannie and Freddie, Barney and Dodd! Thanks Alan Greenspan NON-libertarian bubble pumper! Thanks for the bubble that transferred so much wealth the corrupt and manipulative financial class with your big plans!  Thanks for your good intentions!

        Sleep with dogs…..

        So now that the Democratic and Republican parties have succeeded in overseeing our self-destruction due to their failed central management and Crony-capitalism,  we are ripe for a full socialistic take-over?

        How about  taking the country back for the people, following the Constitution and Rule of Law, and valuing the combination of law and liberty again.

        Our consumeristic hedonism has blinded us from the vigilance that is required for freedom and self-governance to function.

        And now folks want a benevolent dictatorship to save us?!

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Why did you leave out Goldman-Sachs, Lehmann Brothers, Enron, Rick Waggoner, Halliburton, and a lot of others that also brought this disaster about, to their own profit?

          • Dave in CT

            Its Wednesday.  M, W, F is bashing the Democrat half, and Tues/Thursday the Republicans.

            Dems get an extra day due to all the hoodwinked knee-jerk supporters around here.

  • Anonymous

    Tom’s “look at me!” interruptions are driving me nuts.  He’s not facilitating, he’s being rude.

  • Chris at Blighty

    I happened to be passing through Cumberland, Maryland yesterday and sure enough, there were a handful of occupy Wall Street protesters in a park there. As a small business owner I respect what the protesters are trying to acheive. Even the SBA is in bed with the banks which smothers small business. The money wasted on Solyndra could have funded 50,000 American microentrepreneurs @ $10k each and cut the banks out of the loop.

  • Fred in CT

    I believe #OWS the personification of sentiments so well documented in the movie “Inside Job”.  Don’t know where / how this is going to end up, however, if this mobilizes the 99% to become politically active and aware resulting in voting for representatives that truely represent the 99%, OWS can be a wake up call for us and our government.

  • Eben Markowski

    To me it is as simple as “fair trade capitalism” Everything is bought, sold, and manufactured with concern for the environment and each other. You cannot generate six figure salaries without screwing over someone else. The janitor is as important to our society as the CEO 

    • notafeminista

      Protesters don’t show up with the press and signs at the janitor’s house if he didn’t do his job.  Want to try that one again?

      • TFRX

        Janitors don’t have ginned-up contracts which reward them if they, say, spread e-coli in a workplace instead of actually providing sanitation services.

        Plenty of CEOs get paid no matter how poorly they do for their company, and it doesn’t even get considered a “resume stain” when they go for their next job. This is directly in contrast to the rest of us workers.

        • notafeminista

          The CEO assumes the responsibility for the worker who spread the E. coli and loses his job.  He may walk away with untold millions but will still be remembered as the CEO who had E. coli.   What compensates for that?

          • TFRX

            Accountability is outsourced and “not me”d away all the frakking time.

            You really need to brush up on the Peter Principle, and look up “interlocking boards of directors” while you’re at it.

            American CEOs hold on to their power with their (figurative) dying breaths and are golden parachuted out. Regular workers aren’t.

          • notafeminista

            You didn’t answer the question.

  • Dlfoster003

    My immigrant grandparents are smiling down at all these people.  This is exactly the reason my late grandparents worked so hard to get to this country.  Best wishes to all those involved with this movement; you are currently some of the most important keepers of the rights of the people of in this country.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    One is for socialism; the other is for employee stock options.  Can’t we see how this will fail?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1350757252 David Kenny

    The 99% (myslef included) are not blameless. The big sea change will have to be the end of “consumerism” and the concept of economic “growth.”  This means no more replacing your smart phone when the next version comes out. This means positive savings rates for individuals and families. I agree systemic change is needed. Evolution not revolution

  • Matt Van Brocklin

    The American political system no longer provides economic and social justice to the middle class or the poor of our country.  The current trend of the Republican party is to use government to help those that are wealthy and well connected and to basically ignore the poor and middle class.  Whether the topic is tax reform, stimulus, banking regulations, or environmental regulation, the Republican party is not working for the majority of Americans and, in fact, seem to be working against the overall good of the public and this country.  Lobbyists and corporations have way to much influence in our political system while the majority of the American public is left behind.  The Supreme Court decision (I think it was the railroad barons that pushed this point of view) that basically gave corporations the same rights as an individual should be revisited.  Also, the Supreme Court decision that basically gave the right for undisclosed entities to donate so much money into our political system was another folly.  Another good reason why choosing your president is so important – Supreme Court Justice appointments.  Our government needs to give the public back its voice rather than only listening to and considering the views of the few connected, wealthy, and powerful individuals who care more for their bottom line than they do the American system and the public.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Some more EXCELLENT points!!

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Hi, Tim.  What’s up?

    When we factor out all the cliches from these protestors, what’s left?

  • Dave in CT

    Ask your socialist guests what the difference is between Laissez-faire capitalism circumscribed by the Rule of Law, and Crony Capitalism.

    I’m sure they cannot.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1350757252 David Kenny

    Let me be clear. I think “Wall Street” as it is currently configured adds no value to society, BUT the 99% are going to be more important to what comes after as they always are. It’s not so simple that the 1% are keeping the rest of us down – they are standing in the way of evolution however, especially given the role of money in the Democratic process.

    • notafeminista

      Unless of course evolution is the result of Intelligent Design and cannot be “stood in the way of”.

      (Humor.  Really.)

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Cute!  Sir.

  • Chris Kealey

    These protests will be a thing of the past as soon as the cold weather arrives.  90% of the so called 99% are busy working, trying to make the United States better.  The protesters better come to grips that every American now competes against every citizen of the planet.  The old rules are gone.We are so quick to demonize large corporations, wealthy individuals, etc.  Where do the cures for cancer come from, technology, modern lifestyles, etc….they come from private enterprise.  If you want to re-distribute wealth look at the disaster that the USSR was.  It is not realistic.

  • N.

    It makes me wonder.
    When every child gets an award just for showing up, will they turn into adults who expect a job just for showing up? Hmmm….Parents are you reaping what you have sown?

    • Karen

      I am in my mid 40′s and this is not what I experience with the youth.  I find them more in tune with the environment unlike the baby boomers who went and did what they mostly wanted without long term concern. I mentored a young person who is eager to work, creative and quite frankly I am impressed by their generation.  

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

      We’ve had people in this very thread who’ve complained about the Chinese taking “our” jobs.

      Americans, who are paid vastly better than most other people in the world, have a sense of entitlement.    They think that just by virtue of being American the world owes them a high paying job.

    • TFRX

      This sounds a bit too “John Stossel” to me. The existence of the “everybody gets a trophy” soundbite isn’t more than anecdotal evidence.

      It’s the kind of thing that “Chet and Natalie” will always grab at for the local news, because it’s attention getting, and they can cluck-cluck during their unscripted banter.

  • Dpweber83

    “Lackluster domestic record”!?!

    Obama delivered more of the progressive agenda than any president in my lifetime.

    Congrats, Jon Phoenix: I’m officially opposed to your movement.

    -dan
    Boston, MA

    • Anonymous

      Really? Such as what? The Heath Care bill? I don’t think so.
      What else?

      • Dpweber83

        Fine, I’ll pretend like universal health care hasn’t been a progressive priority since Truman.  Here we go:

        -Lily Ledbetter
        -DADT repeal
        -CPFC

        Shall I go on?

        -dan
        Boston, MA

        • Anonymous

          I’m not pretending anything. Obama has not been the best of presidents. The DADT was not his doing by the way. He was against it at first. 

          Lilly Ledbetter or Fair Pay Act was a congressional bill that was there way before Obama came into office. It had not much to do with him other than him signing it. What’s your point here? That a Democratic President signs bills favored by his party? It’s kind of goes with the territory of being the party leader, don’t you think.

          As for his Presidency, I’m not sure I would say he’s in the league of LBJ or Truman. FDR, forget it he does not even get into the outfield of that mans game. Mind you Obama does not have an Eleanor Roosevelt as his wife and confidant.

          • Dpweber83

            Is that your standard for voting for someone?  That they’re “the best of presidents”??  

            “The DADT was not his doing by the way. He was against it at first.”

            I’m sorry, I must be mistaken: if Barack Obama didn’t repeal DADT, which president did?

            “It had not much to do with him other than him signing it.”

            Well that’s funny, because that’s how bills become laws.  Is that not important to you?

            You seem to recognize that these things happened, that Obama made them happen.  Why is that not enough?

            -dan
            Boston, MA

          • Dpweber83

            Is that your standard for voting for someone?  That they’re “the best of presidents”??  

            “The DADT was not his doing by the way. He was against it at first.”

            I’m sorry, I must be mistaken: if Barack Obama didn’t repeal DADT, which president did?

            “It had not much to do with him other than him signing it.”

            Well that’s funny, because that’s how bills become laws.  Is that not important to you?

            You seem to recognize that these things happened, that Obama made them happen.  Why is that not enough?

            -dan
            Boston, MA

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

      What has he delivered?   

      His “banking reform” was wimpish, watered-down window dressing.  This is no suprise if you look at who the top campaign donors were to Frank and Dodd.

      Obama’s health care plan was a big handout to the insurance companies.   And anyway it’s about to be cancelled by the (conservative) Supreme Court.

      According to the Urban League, African Americans have lost all their economic gains of the last 30 years, with the last step down happening on Obama’s watch!

      Hi did nothing about the mortgage/foreclosure crisis, which is what triggered this whole mess.   He escalated our involvement in Afghanistan; he failed to veto the plan to extend the Bush tax cuts.  He failed to close Gitmo. 

      Obama is a pitiful failure.    He’s also a big money shill – his 208 campaign donors are a Who’s Who of big corporations and money interests.  And this is reflected in his appointments. 

      The Republicans may be whack jobs, but I and many other Americans are fed up with “lesser of two evils” voting strategies.

      • Dpweber83

        “What has he delivered?”

        Universal health care, DADT repeal, Lily Ledbetter, shall I go on?

        “Obama’s health care plan was a big handout to the insurance companies.”

        Does that change the fact that poor people can now afford health insurance?

        “And anyway it’s about to be cancelled by the (conservative) Supreme Court.”

        When you’re done with your crystal ball, I’d love to have a look into it.

        “According to the Urban League, African Americans have lost all their economic gains of the last 30 years, with the last step down happening on Obama’s watch!”

        Oh, then it must be his fault!  Wait, it’s not?  Black Americans lost most of their household wealth because most of their wealth was tied up in the value of their homes?  And Obama didn’t cause the real estate collapse?  Whoa, weird!  It’s almost like you knew all this already and deliberately chose the “on his watch” formulation because you knew it was the only way you could pin this on him!

        “He escalated our involvement in Afghanistan”

        He said he was going to do that.  Repeatedly.  Throughout the 2008 campaign.  If this one caught you off-guard, you weren’t paying attention.

        “He failed to close Gitmo.”

        B.S.  Congress failed to close Gitmo; Obama issued the executive order.

        “The Republicans may be whack jobs, but I and many other Americans are fed up with “lesser of two evils” voting strategies.”

        Yeah?  Go ahead and form your own political party.  Get your candidate(s) on the ballot.  Go ahead—I effing dare you, buddy.

        At this point, you’ve declared war on the 2012 Obama campaign, so don’t be surprised if Dems like me come at you hammer-and-tongs.  Assuming, of course, that you actually put your money where your mouth is.

        -dan
        Boston, MA

      • Dpweber83

        “What has he delivered?”

        Universal health care, DADT repeal, Lily Ledbetter, shall I go on?

        “Obama’s health care plan was a big handout to the insurance companies.”

        Does that change the fact that poor people can now afford health insurance?

        “And anyway it’s about to be cancelled by the (conservative) Supreme Court.”

        When you’re done with your crystal ball, I’d love to have a look into it.

        “According to the Urban League, African Americans have lost all their economic gains of the last 30 years, with the last step down happening on Obama’s watch!”

        Oh, then it must be his fault!  Wait, it’s not?  Black Americans lost most of their household wealth because most of their wealth was tied up in the value of their homes?  And Obama didn’t cause the real estate collapse?  Whoa, weird!  It’s almost like you knew all this already and deliberately chose the “on his watch” formulation because you knew it was the only way you could pin this on him!

        “He escalated our involvement in Afghanistan”

        He said he was going to do that.  Repeatedly.  Throughout the 2008 campaign.  If this one caught you off-guard, you weren’t paying attention.

        “He failed to close Gitmo.”

        B.S.  Congress failed to close Gitmo; Obama issued the executive order.

        “The Republicans may be whack jobs, but I and many other Americans are fed up with “lesser of two evils” voting strategies.”

        Yeah?  Go ahead and form your own political party.  Get your candidate(s) on the ballot.  Go ahead—I effing dare you, buddy.

        At this point, you’ve declared war on the 2012 Obama campaign, so don’t be surprised if Dems like me come at you hammer-and-tongs.  Assuming, of course, that you actually put your money where your mouth is.

        -dan
        Boston, MA

      • Dpweber83

        “What has he delivered?”

        Universal health care, DADT repeal, Lily Ledbetter, shall I go on?

        “Obama’s health care plan was a big handout to the insurance companies.”

        Does that change the fact that poor people can now afford health insurance?

        “And anyway it’s about to be cancelled by the (conservative) Supreme Court.”

        When you’re done with your crystal ball, I’d love to have a look into it.

        “According to the Urban League, African Americans have lost all their economic gains of the last 30 years, with the last step down happening on Obama’s watch!”

        Oh, then it must be his fault!  Wait, it’s not?  Black Americans lost most of their household wealth because most of their wealth was tied up in the value of their homes?  And Obama didn’t cause the real estate collapse?  Whoa, weird!  It’s almost like you knew all this already and deliberately chose the “on his watch” formulation because you knew it was the only way you could pin this on him!

        “He escalated our involvement in Afghanistan”

        He said he was going to do that.  Repeatedly.  Throughout the 2008 campaign.  If this one caught you off-guard, you weren’t paying attention.

        “He failed to close Gitmo.”

        B.S.  Congress failed to close Gitmo; Obama issued the executive order.

        “The Republicans may be whack jobs, but I and many other Americans are fed up with “lesser of two evils” voting strategies.”

        Yeah?  Go ahead and form your own political party.  Get your candidate(s) on the ballot.  Go ahead—I effing dare you, buddy.

        At this point, you’ve declared war on the 2012 Obama campaign, so don’t be surprised if Dems like me come at you hammer-and-tongs.  Assuming, of course, that you actually put your money where your mouth is.

        -dan
        Boston, MA

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Excellent question, caller.

  • Karen

    Most of the Occupy Wall Street protestors are young and most of the Tea Party are older.  We have a generational civil war.  As someone who is in between I choose to be wise.  I cannot dismiss the youth for these are the people who will be caring for our increasingly aging population. They are very educated and tech savvy.  They will organize better in this new era of the internet with social media and all.  

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Organizing isn’t a job, Bre Lembitz.

  • Ed

    COMMON GROUND WITH TEA PARTY!!!
    Campaign Finance Reform…the common ground for a start.

    • John – Williamstown, VT

      Right ON!

  • Bazrik

    You are not helping.  Responding to the current economic crisis with an appeal for adopting “socialism” in this country is unrealistic and divisive.  Please stop.

    • Anonymous

      It’s called political speech and it’s part of our Constitution.
      So you need to stop telling people how to think, that’s divisive.

  • Eric in Arlington, MA

    Capitalism is an economic model – whereas democracy is a system of government.  The problem, and maybe a good focus for these occupy movements, is that our democracy has been subverted by the capitalists.  Ours is no longer a government “for the people”, but rather for the capitalists. 

    The rub is that the people who would have to change the system to fix things (the three branches of our government) are all tools of the capitalists – can we reasonably expect them to fix things because it is “the right thing to do” when that runs counter to the interests of their capitalist backers?

    Can we really expect anything to be fixed as long as money plays such a dominant role in our system of elections?

    • notafeminista

      I agree.  President Obama should give back the 54.3 million the AFL-CIO spent getting him elected.

  • Blowback

    See what happens when you sell a population ‘hope and change’ and you give them the ‘same ol’ thing’?

  • Anonymous

    The “system” has to change.

    Lecherous financial churn, bread & circus selling to people trapped in low wage jobs, short-sighted short term profits, not accounting for the *real* and *full* costs of all the resources we are gorging and purging…

    Continuous growth is cancerous.

    Neil

    • Anonymous

      Why aren’t the protesters outside the white house?  That is where the change needs to start.

      • Anonymous

        The Keystone XL pipeline protests organized by 350.org are outside the White House.

        Neil

        • Dpweber83

          Stop distracting him with facts.

      • Heidi in DC

        They’re in McPherson Square and march to the White House.

  • Granite

    If being part of the 99% means fed up with being squeezed by a tax-happy government that has no concept of responsible spending on the one side, and a corporate greed philosophy of trickle-up economics that just widens the wealth gap between robber barons and ordinary people on the other side, then I’m well within the 99%.
    Spent my career with the big dog financial companies, much with a company that starts with “C” so I’ve seen it get out of hand from inside the beast.
    By the way, if not upping taxes on those who make over a million a year is supposed to create more jobs, doesn’t that mean if we tax them nothing or better yet PAY them, they’ll make a zillion new jobs? Who’s logic-testing the party line these days? When the rich net more, they buy themselves more toys. And the first thing they do when they make a million a year from their business is to isolate “their” money from that of the business. The business itself is what creates the jobs, NOT the personal income or tax rate of the owner or senior executives.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      On spot, spot on!

  • snathan

    I am sorry but I don’t feel the direct democracy model as suggested by the guests and followed at the various Occupy movements is not a scalable model for rest of the society. California state with its ballot measures has a system of direct democracy which most will argue has not served the state well. 

  • Jean Smith

    When a quarter or more of the “economy” is a paper pushing casino based on hypothetical assets, it is a jobless economy. When this was collapsing in 2008 the policy makers rescued the fantacy bets as well as the real stuff. Nothing has been done to redd up the mess and give us a  practical economy based on real stuff rather than assets carried at 150% of their value. 

    The Germans have an economy based on products sold to the world we should learn from them. 

  • Anonymous

    For those of us who weren’t alive then…

    They protested for years (not weeks) in the 60′s.

    The people they interviewed on the news then were as incoherent then as the people on the tv now.

    Look what they accomplished.

    If you think these folks are wasting their time, you might want to re-think that attitude.

    These folks are speaking for the previously silent majority who are at the end of their ropes.  I don’t see this protest ending any time soon.

  • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

    There’s a greater political truth here that’s not being examined… that despite its checks and balances, our political system has NO protection against one political party going toxic and insane, the other being cowardly and braindead, or against Big Money buying the system. What else can explain how the philosophy of the Right can implode the economy and the destroy the futures of millions, and not end up on the ash heap of history? Worst, that the other party can’t find the courage to make fundamental reforms to prevent this from ever happening again or throw any of the bastards in jail?

    It’s time to face the fact that the US has gone insane.

    • notafeminista

      I agree.  President Obama should give back the 54.3 million the AFL-CIO spent getting him elected.

      • ulTRAX

        Thanks AGAIN for proving you’re devoid of principles and nothing but a Right wing hack.

        BTW Chuckles, I’m not a Dem.  

        • notafeminista

          Whether or not you are a Dem is irrelevant.  I posted an example of big money from a special interest group that was completely influential in the election of a president.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            And you’re pretending now to be fair and objective, and NOT be a GOP partisan? ROTF

    • C Scudder

      Your observations are “right on”.  The inference of despair about the outcome of drifting toward collapse is also one of my fears.  It would be too much to expect the economic, political, social gyroscopes to achieve a humanistic balance.  Still, think about large issues out of American History similar to our current challenges beginning with the American Revolution.  Unanimity of purpose, intention and representation will only be accomplished because the alternative would be disastrous. Even, the most ardent believer will eventually have to find a place of agreement or else “we all fall down”.

      • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

         
        There’s a larger problem here and that is our federal system is antidemocratic and virtually reform proof. Our primitive state-based electoral system gives rise to our braindead political parties and even when some lucidity bubbles up in the populace, the system itself works to dilute and negate it.

  • Lee

    I was involved in the anti-corporate globalization protests at their height 10 years ago. Although national issues were part of the discussion, I remember listening to a lot of foreign students talking about the situations in their home countries.

     Now if seems like we are focused on national issues (a lot of it fallout from trade liberalization)

    My head is spinning because we seem to be a lot of generations coming together with different experiences

  • Sara Giannoni

    How about one demand being that our government, for
    starters, should make their decisions and their arguments based on facts,
    research and experience rather than ideology and politics.   This
    goes for conservatives, liberals and various interests.

  • Steve_k2

    By pursuing trade policies that favor American corporations, it has become the official policy of our government to hurt American workers.  That has to end.  It’s OUR government.

    • Four Elements

      I wish you were right, but it has been THEIR government for some time…

  • CrackWilding

    Regarding the “get a job” sentiment: I have a job. I have a very good job that pays well. But that doesn’t mean my desire for economic justice went out the window. I earn significantly above the median income in this country and yet I still have difficulty making ends meet. I have a student loan debt that will probably outlive me, and in spite of careful budgeting, my family is often out of money before the end of the month, which means we have to lean on credit, which makes the situation worse. We aren’t wastrels; life is just expensive, and it’s full of unforseen circumstances that have nothing to do with people being lazy or entitled.

    To the OWS folks: keep it up. The arc of history does indeed bend toward justice.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Third party doesn’t work in our system?  Please remind us how the Republicans came into being.

  • thegreengrass

    It’s sad to me that some Democrats are trying to co-opt the Occupy movement just as Republicans co-opted the Tea Party. The biggest complaint that I can see from the movement is that there’s too much corporate money in politics, and it’s *both* party’s fault. I know it sounds crazy, but if you really want to get away from “too much corporate money”, you’re going to have to start voting for parties that don’t accept corporate or lobbyist donations, like the Green Party. That’s honestly the only way you’re going to get politicians’ attention.

  • Geri

    As a baby boomer – I have distinct first hand knowledge of long-hair protestors from the 60′s who are now major Wall Street executives.  Be assured that many of the 2011 protestors will serve in those lofty Wall Street offices in future decades.

    • Granite

      Sad but true. Money changes everything.

      • Dave in CT

        Communistic Sympathies + Free Market Reality = Crony Capitalism

        The problem in the 60′s and today, has always been the former. Stop polluting the organic pricing methods of the market, that all individuals should rightly influence with their personal economic decisions, with the utopian dreams of central planning and private-public partnerships that are just a warm and fuzzy cronyism that always backfires or becomes hijacked.

    • American #1234

      I don’t think that is the problem though, I mean you can’t just get rid of wall street, I think the corruption behind how its being run is the problem, so maybe thats a good thing.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Tom Ashbrook!  “Impactful”?  You are hereby sentenced to five minutes of total silence.

    • Jim22

      You are a snob to end all snobs.

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        Good grammar and diction aren’t snobbery.  If we can’t speak clearly and correctly, we can’t think or be understood.

        • notafeminista

          God bless ya man.

        • nj

          That’s stretching an otherwise valid point. “Thinking” isn’t dependent on speaking clearly, and expression takes many forms other than letters strung together on a page or computer screen.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            Thinking requires words that are assembled in a coherent fashion.  Not just any word that’s close, but the right word.  Not just any random string of words, but a logical series.

      • Anonymous

        Tom is a Yale educated professional journalist and should speak correctly. 

    • Four Elements

      Finally! Someone who cares about the language. Impact is not only not an adjective, it is not a verb. And how about the blizzard of “gonnas”?
      LIKE I said, thanks for your comment!

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        I do what I can.

      • nj

        What are you talking about? Of course impacat is a verb.

        • nj

          Well, on second thought, maybe not impacat, but impact certainly is.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Impacat has a lot of possibilities!

      • Terry Tree Tree

        How does that statement impact you?  Impact has been used as a verb for decades, if not longer!  Impactful gets across the image.  Impact-full does better.

  • FLowen

    Kudos Occupiers!  You Go Guys…you have my support!!!

    my 2¢, IMHO, the 2 most important demands:

    1)  a public referendum on the Citizens’ United decision.

    2)  require all lobby efforts include a dollar for dollar contribution to public interest lobbyists.

    Good Luck to All.

    People get the best government they deserve, the worst they will tolerate.

    Thank you for your intolerance!

    • Anonymous

      Money |= Free Speech.

      Corporations |= People.

      Campaigns should be transparently financed — NO anonymous contributions.

      There should be a financial “white list” — banks and all financial organizations can only do what is on that list.

      Neil

    • notafeminista

      Excellent idea.  The first best thing to happen would be to overturn Citizens United because after all we KNOW corporations/businesses/special interest groups are.not.human.  Just think of the liberation!
      1)No more worries about corporate responsibility.
      2)No more worries about whether or not your favorite coffee house is involved in global justice.
      3)Political elections would be low cost and donations of only the small dollar amount.
      4)No need to concern yourself whether or not your favorite athletic shoe manufacturer is environmentally responsible.
      5)Artists and musicians and authors and academics engaged in the creation of all types of art and research would be self-financed.

      All these things could happen because  we know corporations aren’t human, and as such cannot possibly engage in the human characteristics I’ve just listed.  Very exciting!

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Corporations are NOT human, some aren’t even humane!  Corporations are made up of people that use the corporation to hide, or subdue humane-ness for the sake of profit! 
           Corporate responsibility is about the human responsibility of the members of that corporation.
            Inject yourself into the wrong end of a corporate responsibility case, be the  individual victim, and tell me how you like it!

        • notafeminista

          If corporations aren’t human, then we stop expecting them to behave as such.  An inanimate object knows nothing from social justice.  You don’t expect a curtain rod to be socially just, why would you expect a corporation to be so?

  • Nathan

    The rich and powerful have never willing given up any of their money or power until they have become afraid that they would be taken from them.  The Occpy Wall Street protesters represent the fact that the American people have finally realized that there is no future for us if the rich and powerful are the only ones in this country with a voice.  The rich and powerful should be afraid.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

      The Occpy Wall Street protesters represent the fact that the American
      people have finally realized that there is no future for us if the rich
      and powerful are the only ones in this country with a voice.  The rich
      and powerful should be afraid.

      Nonsense.  The Occupy Wall Street movement represents a handful of idealistic lefties who couldn’t elect a dog catcher, nevermind taking over the House or Senate.    The don’t represent a credible threat to anyone except the taxpayers of Boston, New York, and other cities who have to police and clean up the protests.

  • Kalisonlane

    I totally support the Occupy movement. As a 53 year old unemployed single mom, it’s about time we hold corporations and our government accountable for its actions and lack of actions. Corporations are sitting on trillions of dollars while the average American struggles to pay taxes and survive. I hope this grows and turns into positive political change. Our political machine is corrupt and has to change or die.
    Karen, NC

  • Badolliecat

    A big thanks for inviting such intelligent speaking guests about the Occupy Movement.
    I was excited to listen to the conversation especially the mention of how one might feel like they are the only one until they hear so many other previously suppressed voices and ideas. 
    The mention of creating a new party, the workers party and the idea of a new corporation standard where the workers are part of the company,  and the energy and commitment to change things from the ground up is hopeful.
    Remember, Wall St and the World Bank are big suppressing factors in other countries.  They’ve been working the same on us here at home for generations.  They have finally been exposed at home.
    Keep up the fight, the movement, the positive humane change.

  • KathyMayer99

    What about really sticking it to Wall Street and starting a nation wide boycott of goods and services produced by the large companies – Aren’t we the American consumer allowing this situation to happen because of our greed and consumerism ?  Kathy in Carlisle

    • Granite

      How about a criteria like “If the CEO makes more than 100 times what I make, I’m not buying their stuff.”

      • GMG

        I don’t think boycotts accomplish anything.  I think it’s time for governments to exercise some control of these out-of-control greed machines.  It’s not necessarily that people are overly greedy; the problem is that we have created legal machines that simplistically maximize profit at the expense of other social goods.

        How about regulation that says the government will revoke the registration of any corporation where the CEO makes more than 100 times of any of its employees?  

    • Eric in Arlington

      And what goods and services are NOT produced or distributed by large companies?  This is tantamount to saying boycott everything! 

      A nationwide boycott only works if it is very tightly focused. 

      The problem is not really the greed of the consumer, but the direct connection between the corporations and our government

      • Terry Tree Tree

        When they let you out of the corporate store-room, look around.  Many things are NOT produced by big corporations!

  • GMG

    It seems to me that most of the problems that fuel these sentiments could be fixed by reinstating New Deal policies – solid financial regulation, progressive taxation policies that keep excessive capital from getting out of hand and creating speculative bubbles, and social programs that keep the middle class strong.  These are problems we have fixed before.  The main problem, I think, is that we have a political system that does not have the ability to choose intelligently among policy options, and that instead is awash in propaganda, misinformation, and political posturing at the expense of effective problem-solving.  

    I hope occupy wall street advances some intelligent discussion about how we need to fix our problems.  Unfortunately, the utter paralysis that plagues workers collectives and the drastic policy changes that would be required to institute a new political system would I think be counter-productive in the extreme.

    • Fredlinskip

      Information Age was supposed to lead to more informed public opinion- It didn’t work. Instead information age has been a highly effective tool in twisting public opinion to the benefit of a few.
       
      Even before “info  age”, majority of Americans were lead to believe that “Supply side” economics, (i.e. make the rich richer) was good for the country and that revenue was not required to fund policy.
      The result: HUGE DEFICITS and a BROKEN ECONOMY.

      Americans have been lead like lambs to the slaughter. 
      The only HOPE (to quote Obama) is that Americans choose to become more informed. Without informed public- there’s no Democracy.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    The Progressives did run in 1896.  You’ve heard of William Jennings Bryan?  He was nominated by both the Democrats and the Progressives.

    • Anonymous

      He was also very successful in getting the Prohibition Amendment passed. Which is interesting as the KKK also supported it.
      He was a man of many contradictions, one of which was he did not believe in evolution. Progressives of that era are not the same as what we would call a Progressive today, while Republicans are pretty much made from the same cloth.

  • Les

    The huge disparity between the rich and the poor has been cause for revolution throught out the world through the ages. Continuing high unemployment and a disenfranchised youth has always led to revolution.

    • notafeminista

      It has.  And it generally fails each and every time.  

      • Anonymous

        So I guess you would call the American Revolution a revolution a failure.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Even just generally allows for some sucesses!  WHAT suceeds every time, that isn’t rigged?

    • Les

      Capitalism only works when the entire society buys into it and follows all of the rules. As soon as the veil is lifted and people realize they are not being treated fairly then the whole thing falls apart.

      • notafeminista

        Wellllll now.  That’s kind of relative isn’t it?  You and I may frequent the same business – I feel they treat me unfairly and you don’t.  Then what?

      • Dave in CT

        Maybe the Clinton administration, and Rubin and Frank and Dodd and Greenspan, should have been enforcing the rule law instead of repealing it, and corrupting it with cronyistic Fannie Mae social planning experiments.

        Government/Finance Revolving door is Crony-Corruption, Fox-Henhouse stuff we ALL know is wrong and should be part of a blind, transparent RULE OF LAW.

        Live by technocratic cronies, die by them.

        • Fredlinskip

          Greenspan for Prez.

          • Dave in CT

            been there done that…. We had the Greensp…uh, Bush/Clinton/Bush presidency….

        • Terry Tree Tree

          ‘W’, Cheney, Halliburton, Enron, Lehmann Brothers, Goldman-Sachs?

          • Dave in CT

            …almost there, Goldman Sachs takes you right back to…Obama!

            Full Circle! 

            Long live the Republocrats!

  • Dave in CT

    We don’t need a more Socialist Democratic Party, we need a more libertarian Democratic Party. NOTE A CRONY CAPITALISM ONE, just a level playing field, free market, punish the malefactors one.

    The majority in this country don’t buy the benevolent central planner model that is the logical extension of what your guests are talking about.

    Again, read The Road to Serfdom, and just put it into your reform calculus.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Cya-Samura/100000175393320 Cya Samura

    These people kill me when they focus on President Obama. All through the Bush administration we banged our heads against the wall screaming that the damage bush and his supporters were creating would take years to a decade to begin to reverse. Why are people so ignorant of the fact that all the damage that was done by the republicans and conservatives of the last admin will take a tremendous amount of effort, change, and time to overcome? Bush and GOP had their field day. Now get out of the way!

    • Fredlinskip

          In past, when our country has faced tremendous difficulties, congress has put petty bickering aside and worked for the interests of the American people. Thats what Dems did after 9/11- (what a mistake that turned out to be!)

         The ONLY reason GOP has blocked every single Progressive initiative since Obama’s election is that if some of these changes worked for the benefit of Americans, GOP would lose even more seats. GOP’s only interests are keeping there gnarly hands on the levers of power. There is no other rational explanation.

         On other hand, as your post implies, It took a long time to dig the hole we are in- we’re not getting out tomorrow. Americans are going to have to understand THERE”S NO QUICK FIX.

    • Fredlinskip

      Education is the key.
      There are so many think-tanks, media outlets, etc whose sole mission statement is to distort public opinion towards maintaining status quo that it is an uphill battle.

  • Sara Giannoni

    Maybe instead of just trying to change the Democratic Party
    people need to build relationships with non-liberal interest groups, find
    things to work on together.  Middle class
    liberal and conservatives probably have more in common than rich people or
    people in power.

  • Jeffrey Harrison

    I’m all for these guys, but your guest has to be kidding about a third party candidate. What?! Remember Ralph Nader? That got us eight years of George Bush. It’s too big a gamble. The members of this movement need to swallow hard and get behind Obama. Otherwise, their counterpart, the Tea Party (which has aligned itself with the Republicans) will prevail.

  • Pamela

    I think it points to everything this group stands for that there’s this kind of inquiry (em inquisition) on their right to assemble. I don’t recall the overall critique when the Tea Party gathered. And in my view, they’ve become a frightening group of extremists The mainstream media is painting a negative image of “Occupy” as “kids” when in fact they’re educated people of all ages, of all backgrounds, of all ethnicities who are informed. I share the views, I applaud their tenacity and boldness in making a stand and demanding a voice. At the very least, to engage a conversation. It’s working. Thank you Tom for being the only one who’s given them a credible voice to have a conversation.

    • Fredlinskip

      The media gives more credence to the common-sense “fair and balanced” opinions of tea party leaders such as Glenn Beck.

  • Charles A. Bowsher

    It has not been “class warfare”. It has been “CLASS GENOCIDE” How else do you explain the near complete disappearance of the middle class? It is time to wave the white-flag and press the reset button. Time for a little confiscation if you ask me.
     

    I have only one more thing I would like everyone to read, digest and act upon.
     
    THEY MAY HAVE ALL THE MONEY, BUT WE HAVE ALL THE VOTES
     
    The only way to win the future is if we are organized and we vote.

    • Dave in CT

      “THEY MAY HAVE ALL THE MONEY, BUT WE HAVE ALL THE VOTES”

      What the hell have we been doing with our vote?

      Are you saying Washington is corrupt?

      But I thought you all thought our salvation lies with big government delivering us justice?

      Hmmmm. Big government, big power, big corruption, big problems for the little guy? 

      Power to the people in a liberty and rule of law way? Oh, no, we are too dumb for that……. we are better off with Barney Frank and Chris Dodd.

      Be careful what you wis…. vote for?

      • Fredlinskip

        I’m for voting for big corps. Give me a candidate who is most closely aligned to maintaining status quo. That’s what we need today-
        MORE OF THE SAME.

        • Dave in CT

          The Republocrats are your party then!

    • Fredlinskip

      It’s uphill battle considering most media sources that inform majority of public opinion are corporate owned and espouse nonsensical views slanted towards the interests of the top couple of % of Americans.

  • guy

    My #1 wish: get corporate $s out of politics. Limit individual contributions to some reasonable amount so that all citizens can contribute to a great democratic system.

    • Eric in Arlington

      Individual contributions are not the problem – the problem is the huge influence of the corporations and other non-individual donors.

    • Dave in CT

      Demand contribution transparency, call out the donors/acceptors, tell you friends and neighbors, and vote.

      Stopping the money is like stopping water.

      Demand transparency, and harsh punishments for those who hide, but with the information, and the right to vote, we can handle the decisions.

      IMO

  • GMG

    Third party?  Oh come on.  That is the most historically blind and short-sighted goal, guaranteed to increase Republican power.  Let the Tea Party split the republicans; steer the Democrats in a better direction.

  • Yar

    Could a charismatic individual or group of individuals who agree to not take any money while in office other than their salary, get elected through use of social media without using the traditional campaign? If they were elected would the moneyed interest allow them to serve?  Do we have a peaceful way forward?

    • Eric in Arlington

      I think that if Jimmy Carter had been running today, he probably would have fit your bill.  And did the moneyed interest allow him to serve?  Certainly not to the degree that they allowed the “approved” presidents who followed him to serve.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Bre Lembitz,

    Are you familiar with Italy or Israel?  Those countries have proportional representation.  They also have governments that fall apart in a few months, and they are frequently paralyzed by inability to act.

    • Dave in CT

      Again with the rational thought!? 

    • Anonymous

      What do call what’s been happening for the past 4 years in this country?

  • Dpweber83

    Wow…I was ambivalent about these protests before, but after listening to Bre Lambitz and Jon Phoenix, I’m not officially opposed.

    Congrats, guys, you’ve lost a lifelong progressive Democrat.  I’ll be working against you and your cut-off-your-own-nose-to-spite-Obama’s face platform however I can.

    -dan
    Boston, MA

    • Gregg

      Thank you Dpweber83. I know from your previous comments we are polar opposites politically but this movement is nonsensical and scary.

    • SomMom

      Do you mean “I AM officially opposed” ?

      • Dpweber83

        Sorry, meant to type “now officially opposed.”

    • John – Williamstown, VT

      THIS is the problem – hard core Dems just don’t get it.  You guys remind me of the woman who told me “Of course Bill Clinton is a sexist pig but he’s so RIGHT on women’s issues.”  You’re willing for forgive Obama, not hold his feet to the fire, simply because he’s not a Republican.

      Obama is just Bush Light but Dems say hey at least it’s not a Republican doing these things. It could be so much worse.

      Want to change things – register as a Republican and votge in the primaries for Jon Huntsman, someone a Dem could possibly support.  A moderate Republican contender will do more to move Obama than all the demonstrations.

      • Denis

        “Obama is just Bush Light but Dems say hey at least it’s not a Republican doing these things. It could be so much worse.”What Fox Station did you get this information from? The president is not a dictator – legislators have to step up to the plate if there is to be real change. As you go about spreading these falsehoods the Republicans are taking over state legislatures and reapportioning the districts to assure a stronger republican congress.

      • Dpweber83

        “You’re willing for forgive Obama, not hold his feet to the fire, simply because he’s not a Republican.”

        B.S.  I disagree strongly with, for example, his policy on Afghanistan.  I simply recognize that Obama’s gotten more of the progressive agenda done in less than one term than any other president in my lifetime.  Anyone who wants to challenge that fact had better come with some citations.  

        I didn’t vote for “not Bush.”  I voted for Barack Obama, and so far, he’s exceeded my expectations.

        -dan
        Boston, MA

    • Anonymous

      I found myself thinking the same thing when listening to Bre Lambitz and Jon Phoenix. However I don’t oppose what they are doing. I’m not entirely for it, but I do support their right to free political speech.
      I also think they if one can get beyond the rhetoric they are saying some good things. So as a progressive Democrat you support Obama? Interesting. I don’t and I only voted for him because McCain was the not a choice and I find the GOP to be the antithesis of what I believe in. However the Democrats are just as in bed with the oligarchs as the Republicans. Obama has not done much to forward any progressive Democratic causes. In my view he’s a moderate at best and a Wall Street Democrat. 

      • Dpweber83

        “So as a progressive Democrat you support Obama?”

        Hell yes.  I’m 28, and no president in my lifetime has ever made so much of the progressive agenda a reality.  

        “Obama has not done much to forward any progressive Democratic causes.”

        Horse hockey.  Health care reform, DADT repeal, Lily Ledbetter, I can go on if you’d like.

        -dan
        Boston, MA

        • Anonymous

          Obama did not support DADT until it was necessary. Lily Ledbetter was already in the works and all he did was sign the legislation into law after it was passed by Congress. Yes, do go on because I don’t see anything progressive about President Obama at all. He left the Progressives out in the cold during the health care debate and supported the Wall Street Democrats. Not very progressive in my view.

  • Jenny

    I was thinking about how this movement might become more effective by becoming more inclusive – first in a logistical way.  How about making the act of occupying more accessible to working people, families, etc. by creating protest “cells” – smaller, more manageable groups that delegate protest shifts in as many public spaces across Boston and its surrounding suburbs as possible.  This way – anyone driving or passing through anywhere at any time will see protesters and their messages just few feet away – instead of on TV or online.  This way it won’t just a movement conducted by people who have the time and resources to protest – not just something happening “over there” downtown – but instead, a common struggle that easy to get in on.

    • Lee

      I think there is going to have to be a branching out. I also think it might be a good tactical issue to have some sore of photograph or image that protestors can hold up in from of spectator’s cell phone cameras.  I was in Boston on Monday, and a lot of people watching from the sidewalks were filming on their cameras. Wouldn’t it be great to have some stock image that they have with them when they go home.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Go for it, Jenny!!

  • Steve Cotton

    Tom — Please pose this question to your guests: “In the 1920-30′s – we had similar issues of concentration of wealth leading to political power, we had similar elevated levels of inequality, and huge financial market slumps. Yet, the prosperity of the 40′s, 50′s & 60′s did not require a complete overhaul of the political & economic system — instead, working through the existing system, we were able to push through pragmatic policy changes (most notably the New Deal). Why not push for change vis-a-vis the current system using the past as a guide, rather than a more radical push to overthrow of the current system? Why not, utilize this movement as a means of education for pragmatic change, as opposed to a movement that simply repudiates our current economic & political systems and, increasingly ostrazises mainstream Americans?

    • Fredlinskip

      Very good points
      Republican candidates during debate have been pushing for a 25% corporate tax rate.
      Is it coincidental that was the rate (lowest in our history) that we had preceding Great Depression?

      “Those who fail to learn from past….”

  • Les

    The names of those in the top 1% should be published so all those who “think” they are the wealthy will finally get it. They have bought into the brilliant marketing of the Republican party and think that they are the upper class when really they are pawns in the game.

    • http://www.facebook.com/jonvaage Jon Vaage

      There’s the super rich, the poor and the “attractive poor” who think they have more in common with the rich because they can mimic the super rich (minus the gigantic sums of actual wealth).

      • TFRX

        We used to call the “attractive poor” serfs. Except today they don’t have to kiss the ground when the master rides by. Well, they don’t literally need to.

  • Four Elements

    It’s nice that people have found out that there are others who share their thoughts and feelings, but the movement will mean a lot more if and when it attracts forty- and fifty-and sixty-somethings in business suits…. Right now it seems a bit too countercultural. Very little remains of the idealism of the 60s. We still have a greedy, testosterone-driven culture. Sadly, the system will just outwait the Occupy movement: winter is coming.

    • Fredlinskip

      Don’t count it out. It can morph into something bigger and change it’s approaches. Do what you can.

  • John – Williamstown, VT

    We don’t need a new party – we need a return to the paradigm of America that existed after World War II.  It is the period of greatest economic growth not only for this country but also in world history.

    This movement needs to force Washington to return to a system that works for ALL Americans – not just those that donate the most or can provide trips and perks that all politicians love.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

      After WWII the rest of the world was in ruins and American manufacturing capacity was intact.      Those were unique conditions that we should all hope will never be repeated.

    • Dave in CT

      Stop with the rational thinking! We need Mao!

      • TFRX

        You’re gonna keep grinding on that one 20-y.o. BU student as the standard bearer?

        That’ll get old fast.

    • Fredlinskip

      And the paradigm you refer to is….? (What policies, etc.?)

    • Anonymous

      That is an interesting sentiment, but those days are long gone as are the factories that employed a lot of people. In the 50′s and 60′s most people drove cars and watched TV’s made in America by people in unions. 

      I’m not sure what the answer is, but what I do see is that we live in what can only be called the post-industrial age and that a lot of people are now expendable. The system does not need millions of workers to make it work as it once did. So there is the rub.
      The Occupy Wall Street protest are just a beginning of civil unrest that is a reflection of this reality. In short going to college means nothing anymore. Getting a good education is only going to be attached to job. As one chap who posted said he can not find people to work for free, uh commission, selling electrical gear. Maybe it’s the fact that educated kids can see through this kind of shill.
       

  • Lydia

    I totally agree with the current caller- I hoped the Tea Party would split the Republican party, and assure Obama’s reelection during which he can be more effective in the “lame duck” position. I am an Occupy supporter but do worry about any spin that makes the message look like Obama has failed (when in my opinion, Congress, Republicans, and the Tea Party have been responsible for blocking his efforts), whereas Obama has tried hard to be a centrist and to compromise and “work across the aisle.”

    • Fredlinskip

      GOP top priorities have nothing to do with improving economy or lowering unemployment, but I guess that’s not something you didn’t know.

      • Anonymous

        I wonder what percentage of the Occupy protesters have ever been outside the US to see what the rest of the world is like?  I am guessing 1% because I have been to a lot of places around the world and I have yet to find place better than the US is today!

        • litekeep from Sutton,MA

          Interesting Bradstad.  I’ve been to Ireland.  I have to tell you, the EU has caught up to and passed the Good Ol’ USA in MANY ways.  Sure, they have their issues now (most of which resulted from the situation our banks created).  But as far as standards of living go, I think we’re behind them!!!  Better roads.  Better public facilities.  The Architecture is better (its really amazing when you look at their new buildings, of which there are VERY many).  Better cars.  First access to newer products.  Overall, we are a great people, but we don’t have the corner on that commodity.

          • Anonymous

            I have been to Ireland too.

            It is a great place to visit, much like the state of Montana.

            Please tell me what cars they have that are better than we have in the US?  How many people in Ireland can afford to own a car compared to in the US?Please name 3 products that they had before we could get them in the US? Are the Irish or Americans more likely to afford them?Please name 3 products that were invented in Ireland that changed the world? Are the Irish or Americans more likely to afford them?What are these public facilities that are better in Ireland?  how are they better than in the US?

        • Brett

          I know, in those other places people speak funny; you can’t understand a word they’re sayin’! Oh, and, you can’t even get a good hamburger unless you go to one of those trusted, respected franchises, like McDonald’s! 

        • Fredlinskip

          Spoken like a true patriot.
          Don’t fix it if it ain’t broken.

    • Steve T

      Smoke and mirrors, “Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain”

  • Rosemary Moser

    Ending Corporate personhood would go a huge way toward our vision of “Another World is Possible”.  The current status gives the corporatations much more power than we average folks to influence politics and policies.

    • Fredlinskip

      Agreed. Now all’s we have to wait 5? 10? years or so until there’s an opening on Supreme court and pray there’s a Dem Prez at the time.

  • Charlie W

    If only we could vote 1st choice  2nd choice.  If the 1st choice doesn’t win then your vote would revert to the second choice.  This would effectively eliminate the argument that voting for the 3rd party candidate is a wasted vote.   But fat chance of getting anybody in the 2 parties to vote out the system that gets them elected.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Your vote is only wasted when you vote for a candidate that you don’t support.

      • Charlie W

        I get that, but sometimes I feel you need to vote out the bigger evil.  Obama is the 1st president I voted for.

        • Anonymous

          Me too, but in 2012 he will get my vote as the lesser of two evils.

        • http://www.facebook.com/jonvaage Jon Vaage

          This is why we need an Instant Runoff Voting (IRV) system! This solves the problem of the spoiler effect because it allows voters to rank their preferences and not waste their vote if their ideal candidate doesn’t make it! Check out: http://www.fairvote.org/instant-runoff-voting/

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

        I agree.

        We’ve had enough of “lesser of two evils” voting strategies.     I’m either going to vote for someone I genuinely support or I’m not voting at all.    

        The idea that a vote for a 3d party is a vote Obama would have otherwise received is nonsense!   I voted for Obama in the last election but boy was I fooled!     He’s nothing but a pitiful, pathetic wimp; a college professor in over his head with professional politicians, and everyone can see this.

        • Denis

          Don’t know who everyone is [other than those influenced by the fox news nonsense]. I am still a supporter – perhaps stronger than in ’08.   I heard President Obama talk, in person, four times during the caucus season.  He has performed exactly as promised.  Over and over the crowds cheered when he said he would work for compromise.  When the Republicans and blue dog Democrats and democrats that were just to wimpy to stand up to the very small minority tea party folks decided to not play there was no room for any legislation to solve our problems.  Additionally remember, budget issues are legislated by congress not decreed by the president.  

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

            He has performed exactly as promised.

            Really?   There no action to resolve the mortgage/foreclosure crisis, even though this is what set off the 2008 crash.   Now, years later, 25% of all mortgages are STILL underwater.

            There was no serious structural reform of the financial industry.    In fact, under Obama, banks that were “too big to fail” are now even bigger!

            Obama’s health care plan was a handout to the insurance companies, and anyway it’s about to be erased by the Supreme Court.   And this is regarded as his signature success.

            Obama ran against the Bush tax cuts and yet last January when he had the opportunity to veto a plan to extend them he didn’t!

            Obama escalated our hopeless involvement in Afghanistan.

            Obama has done nothing to resolve to Israeli-Palestinian situation, he has applied no pressure on Israel to stop their settlements program.

            I could go on and on.     And what’s more remarkable about Obama’s many failures is that he had two years with strong Democratic majorities in both houses of Congress.    He’s incompetent as an executive; he can’t get things done.  Blaming the Republicans is a cop-out -  they’re the opposition party; it’s their job to oppose.   It’s his job to deal effectively with it.
             

      • GMG

        I disagree.  Sometimes you need to vote in the lesser evil to keep the greater evil from occurring.   Withholding your vote in a case like this only benefits your opponent.  Gore/Nader/Bush being a prime example.  A vote for Nader was a vote for Bush, and, now, who can claim with a straight face that we are better off after 8 years of Bush than we would have been after 8 years of Gore?

      • Steve T

        How about candidates you vote for that don’t support you, by keeping the promises they run on.

    • Dave in CT

      Instant Runoff Voting.

      Yes!

  • American #1234

    We need a third party. Thats the answer. Our country is splitting at the seams while compromise is being shunned. Lets show Washington that we don’t have to rely on them and if we will it, we can get rid of them. The problem with Democrats and Republicans is that they don’t believe we will do anything about it, just like Bank of America stated they aren’t worried they’ll lose customers with the new charges because people are to lazy to change banks, and they’ll just pay. Lets show them that they depend on us not the other way around. We can get rid of all of them if we want. “The 99%” needs to work even harder to truly become the 99%, gain momentum, give them something to worry about. This isn’t against those that make money, hell everyone wants to make money, its to those who make money through corruption, and dont mind destroying the lives of those who just want to live. This includes government entities who accept this money from special intrest groups and corporations. Because making the indecent proposal is bad but accepting it is even worst. When its time to vote kick them all out vote independant on every ballet, time try something new. 

    • Fredlinskip

      There’s dangers to the concept of a 3rd party. That’s how W was elected.

      • Ben

        And Obama didn’t perpetuate and extend the very same policies of GW? One should be beholden to principals, not men…

        • Fredlinskip

          Having come into office with tremendous number of issues to resolve, I think Obama did the best he could in a very hostile environment. His hands are currently tied by a hostile House of Reps and a Senate where having a “majority” means absolutely nothing because of the broken use of filibuster rule. No  I’m not happy with all Obama policies. He could have drawn down the Wars much sooner. He could have used “bully pulpit” much more effectively.He could have promoted investigations into the corrupt policies of previous administration.  Without shedding light on corruption- it will continue.
             He did best he could. Good enough? maybe not. But the alternative (GOP Prez), I personally believe, would have been much worse.

      • American #1234

        But also Clinton

    • Denis

      Again, people need to look at facts not the fox news dominated discourse. If in fact the people had elected a 60 vote majority in the senate we would not have some of these problems. If a third party candidate won the White House we would face problems much larger than what we have now. Neither the republicans nor the democrats would find it to their benefit to work with that candidate. Look at the legislative record in Minnesota was “led” by Jessie.

  • Flamenco

    Please listen to history. Remember that Ronald Regan won against Carter with the independent John Anderson in the presidential race. Anderson contributed to Carter’s loss. This is a pattern your young activists need to be aware of.

    • Ed Siefker

       What makes you think that Obama is any more acceptable to these people than whoever the Republicans put up?  It’s Obama’s justice department that has failed to prosecute any bankers for their crimes over the past 3 years.  Obama staffed his cabinet with the very guys who caused this crisis. 

      In all honesty, the OWS movement has more in common with that portion of the Tea Party that has not been co-opted by republicans than it does either of the major parties.   Any third party is better than either D or R.

  • Mia

    What a frustrating conversation. I hope that OnPoint dedicates some more time to getting down to the crux here. We have a situation here where teachers are being taxed and asked to take pay cuts that are just crazy and not do-able, and at the same time it is considered “class warfare” to increase taxes for millionaires. 
    It is not like we have two options- socialism or an extremely broken version
    of the free market. WE CAN DO BETTER THAN BOTH OF THOSE!  We need to
    foster an economy that is resource based (and therefore, reality based).
    We need an election system that prevents or caps donations from
    corporations. We need legislative policies and government agencies that
    work for the people, not the corporation.

  • Wes, Cambridge, MA

    I applaud the Occupy Movement. I agree that it is time to build a horizontal democratic society, a society that is based upon equality of power. It is time for real change. Change we can believe in. Our goal should be reducing the financial inequality. This is a moral issue. It is time to do what’s right for this country and the world.

    • Dave in CT

      “equality of power”

      You sound like a libertarian.

      Or do you mean, equality of outcomes?

      Can you define “right”?

      • Wes, Cambridge, MA

        I am a Green. I support the ten green values of the Green Party.

        The Ten Green Values

        Ecological Wisdom (Sustainability)
        Participatory Democracy
        Social Justice
        Nonviolence
        Decentralization
        Community Based Economics
        Feminism
        Respect for Diversity
        Global Responsibility
        Future Focus

        It is immoral and unjust for so many people to be homeless and jobless and bankrupt while the very few live in excessive luxury and wealth. What would be “right” would be to give everyone a fair deal. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. It’s time to build a just society. Give people jobs if they need them. There is plenty of work that needs to be done. It’s time to take the power out of the hands of the big cold faceless corporations and put it into the hands of the people where it belongs.

  • Charlie W

    BTW I support the protest and agree with 90% of what they stand for

    • Anonymous

      I am glad to hear it.  You might be the first person to tell me what do they stand for?

      • Gregg

        Still waiting on that one.

      • Steve T

        More things than can be explained to a brain dead person that thinks it can be boiled down to one thing.

        • Anonymous

          OK, Now you sound like on of the protesters   

          Can you give me a top ten list of what they stand for and what they want to change if they ruled the world?  This seems like a pretty easy question yet know one seems to know the answer, which you have proved once again!  Thanks!

          • Steve T

            The most recent BLS Employment Situation report
            shows that in May, 13.9 million were out of work, 8.5 million were
            “employed part time for economic reasons,” and 2.2 million were
            “marginally attached to the labor force,” meaning they said they wanted
            work but had stopped looking. So the true total is 24.6 million.

            here’s 1
            A JOB

        • Dpweber83

          Straight up, that’s about the worst answer you could give.

          -dan
          Boston, MA

          • Steve T

            So you give it a try.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Jon Phoenix,

    Capitalism works, so long as it’s regulated.  Call the model in Scandanavian countries socialism, if you must, but that’s really a regulated capitalism.

    • Dave in CT

      You guys should flush out and discuss these models. Do they have cronyism? Why, why not? Is the economy centrally-managed by an elite group of planners? Or do they really have a classically liberal system that has a clear rule of law and simply punishes malefactors?  How much coercion must be accepted for the ends?  Would the level of coercion/cooperation in that small country work in the USA?

      http://www.thefreemanonline.org/headline/diversity-ends-rules/

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        1.  Regulate large institutions.  They are the ones that cause the most damage when they fail or when they act.

        2.  Let small businesses have more freedom.

        3.  Reform the patent system–use it or lose it, and you only keep it for a limited time.

        4.  Give America the kinds of healthcare that Canada or France have.

        5.  Pass a constitutional amendment that states that only persons are persons, and only persons have constitutional rights.

        How about that for now?

        • American #1234

          Yes please!

        • Dave in CT

          As long as you can find a way to regulate those large institutions in an unbiased way, so politicians can’t gain by playing the crony game, looks like a good start!  I’d want to see the healthcare/debt/sustainability numbers…..

  • http://twitter.com/eshadah Enrique Shadah

    It’s not about Wall Street.  Capitalism is a tool.  Bad policies have led to its misuse, because the people have not done their job on demanding change and holding people accountable.  If people keep praising empty wealth and not take personal responsibility to changing their leaders, things will not change.  The worst thing that could happen is that we put a stigma on wealth.  Wealth should create wealth.  The problems is the rich have colluded with the government to carve out an oasis for themselves.  Most people need education and retraining to be prepared to reap the benefits of our super efficient and sophisticated economy.

  • jstevens

    I love that your guest is so idealistic, quoting Monty Python, and all, but idealism isn’t going to help. Ralph Nader specifically said that he was willing to have George Bush so that things would get worse and effect change. Is this it? Does he think that 8 years of Bush was a cake walk? How much worse can it get? A third party, while idealistic, is only helpful to a party that is the worst option possible.

    • Edward Porter

      I agree. Unfortunately, Jon Phoenix is being naive and, perhaps unknowingly, repeating the exact same arguments that were made in support of Ralph Nader’s candidacy in 2000. The small amount of votes that Nader got in Florida were the reason Bush won the state and therefore the Presidency. So, as Jon said, we “lost the battle” there… I’m still waiting for us to “win the war”. Many people, including me, threw their support behind Nader in the hopes of achieving Federal matching funds in future elections. It has not happened, and it will not happen this time if a third party candidate runs on the left. All it will achieve is delivering the White House to the conservative party. This Occupy movement must affect change by getting Congress to pay more attention to the 99%. Elect more Democratic, and more liberal Congresspeople and Senators. That is the first incremental step towards real change, not some ill-formed, dead-end third party.
      (And please don’t remind me that the Republicans started as a thrid party. 1860 is ancient history. The country was entirely different then, ie: the civil war).

      • nj

        [[ The small amount of votes that Nader got in Florida were the reason Bush won the state and therefore the Presidency.]]
        Utter nonsense. More Florida Democrats voted for Shrub than for Nader. Want to blame someone? Try Gore for running a lame, impotent campaign.

  • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

    I accept the Reaction of some Americans about the protestors for being a disturbance in the streets of America. for what I experienced in Manila some Filipinos did not care about the rallies going on in Mendiola bridge or in Manila’s University belt for the main concern of the majority was to go on with their daily lives to support and feed their families. Americans are not use to these kinds of disturbance and Filipinos are already numb about demonstrations.

  • Mark

    Tom,
    This is a lopsided conversation.   Many of the premises your guests are working on are false.   I am a business owner in the Boston area.   The notion that there are no jobs and that capitalism is broken is ridiculous.  I have plenty of commission based sales jobs for anyone interested and able.   We are in the electrical business and cannot find good people.  Your guests assertions about the economy and our society are bunk.

    Time for the spoiled brats to get back to school.   I do not need to be lectured to by 20 year olds with their world-weary attitudes.

    • American #1234

      No offense, and I applaud you for having a running business, but commission based jobs tend to be the most unreliable, especially when the country is dancing around recession, and do you really just ignore the insanely high unemployment rates, and foreclosures, and state of schools, if that is your idea of being just “world weary” I am terrified of what the country being in trouble actually means to you.

      • Denis

        There really is only one way to fix the problems you talk of… That is the ballot box! And of course, in spite of the uneducated fax dominated discourse, it is supporting President Obama. His efforts have been historic in nature. Yes he has compromised on issues… that is how government works, and in spite of the republicans in lockstep following those that have one goal – to make president Obama a one term President – he has moved the country more progressively than any Republican [congress or presidential candidate] would move us. Remember the words of Hubert Humphrey, ” it is better to have bread than to hold out for butter and have neither.”

        • American #1234

          I completly agree, and I plan on voting for Obama again, because it will be wonderful to see him unleashed of campaigning and and trying to be re-elected.

      • Anonymous

        Well said.

      • Dave in CT

        Yeah, and farming jobs are too hard, and restaurant jobs are beneath me!

        I demand my $65,000 office job dammit, I went to college!

        We don’t live in the real world, we live in our idealized world!

        • Steve T

          You don’t live in the real world

    • Edward Porter

      How can I apply for one of your jobs?

    • Anonymous

      Well I’m sure that kind of attitude gets them running to you in droves for that “commission based sales job”. Maybe it’s you.

    • Wes, Cambridge, MA

      What this country needs is not more “commission based sales jobs.” What we need are jobs that will employ everyone. Not just those who are “able” or “good.” Not everyone is good at sales. Meaning that some people will be unemployed. I know from experience that if I took a commission based sales job I would starve or be “let go.”

    • litekeep

      Hi Mark.  I’m 50.  I have a great job with a GREAT employer.  I have a BS in business and an MBA from a major Boston area business program .  And I totally identify with this movement.  These are not spoiled brats.  These are folks who see injustice and are acting on it.  Sure, there’s a lot of kids involved with Occupy Boston.  But Boston is a city of colleges.  Look at NY or Baltimore or LA.  These aren’t just kids and there’s millions of people like me who have obligations to family who just can’t stop working.

      Sir, I get mailers from the companies I own stock in, who are voting on certain issues at shareholder meetings.  And I’ve never seen one of these where “the Board of Directors recommends” isn’t a part of the mailer.  Issues are raised by stock holders, legitimate issues.  And without question, the only thought that the company brings to this is the bottom line.  Well, in my opinion, companies are and should be a lot more than the bottom line.  Corporations are tools of mankind to create function and efficiency in the world of business.  And corporations owe to the society at large to make the world better.  If companies are really equal to people, then they have an obligation to make the world a better place.  But that’s not how we approach business.  We approach it only from the bottom line (the least common denominator).  We approach it from “how did they do last quarter?”.  That’s so short sighted.  That’s so limited.  That’s so unjust.

      I too tip my hat to you for creating jobs in the community.  And I bet you feel some obligation to give back.  But most major publicly traded corporations don’t really give back more than they take.  And some are downright evil.  The banks ruined not only millions of IRAs and 401Ks, but thousands and hundreds of thousands of individuals.  “Occupy” is fighting against this injustice.  These folks are speaking for many people.

    • Ed Siefker

      Try offering a salary and benefits instead of commission, and you might see that turn around.  What’s that?  The economy is too unstable for you to guarantee people a salary?  Well that’s what we’re upset about!  Come join us!

      • Courtney Too

        Ed, I couldn’t have said it better myself. 
         
        Mark, you need to get your head out of the sand.  The occupy movement isn’t complaining about ‘you’ and your ‘commissioned based sales company’ and it is also not defending the ‘less than qualified potential employees that you say you have hired/interviewed’.  It’s about more than that – it’s about reuniting the citizens of this country so that we can all stand up for each other against corporate greed and poor leadership.  It serves to set some boundaries and protect ourselves from the irresponsibility, corruption and gluttony of those in high places.
         
        Further, this movement has been a long time coming and our generations have officially shaken the term ‘apathetic’.  Being called ‘Un-American’ and ‘spoiled brats’ by people that would rather have us continue to ‘bend over’ for the chosen few is not going to deter us.  We have officially gotten off of our ‘lazy’ butts and found our voices.  I hope that people like you who confine the principles of this movement specifically to themselves will one day wake up and walk with us. 
         
        Until then, best of luck to you.

      • Modavations

        All big money earners work for commissions.I used to be a Cropier in Vegas.I got minimum wage and big tips!!!!

        • Courtney Too

          That is really great for you.  Unfortunately your individual experience, though valuable, cannot be applied to the masses.  This movement is not about ‘you’ it’s about ‘everyone’.  Find a way to unite, not divide.  Best,

  • C Scudder

    The historical institutions for social welfare seem not to be represented at any of these protests.  Where is the Catholic Church (who pretend to care about those who suffer)?  And, the other religious institutions…where are they?
    Finally, the timid politicians(s) Senator Ben Nelson from Nebraska for example seem to be very quiet.  Where are the Tea Party Folks?  
    It seems to me these institutions and so-called civic do-gooders are staying outside the skirmish going on in these major cities.  How can they not be involved: for or against?

  • Steve T

    People are fed up with so many thing going wrong, you can’t expect to pinpoint one objective. The cup is overflowing and spilling out into the street.
    When you tell someone that the wall they are looking at is not there, how many times do you think they will walk into it before calling you a lair and be angry because they trusted you.
    The people have loss to much to accept the status quo.
    I’m surprised I haven’t heard, “I’m angry  I’m fed up and I’m not gonna take anymore!”

    • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

      You don’t have to protest because there are people already protesting for you. but if you want to join.

      It is your civil rights.

      • Steve T

        Damn right and I do!

  • Gbb3

    Thank you Karen in Rochester!  I am a 50 something employed but under paid women part of the 99%. Thank you for calling in and representing us.

  • Evan

    I think that John is really jumping the gun (and is perhaps a little too clever for himself). I support the Occupy Wall St. movement. But it is still so young and new. Any talk about third party or supporting the Democrats is way premature. Let the movement grow, let it form its own identity, and then lets see where it goes. Sounds like John has brought his own ideology to the conversation and therefore he has his prepared answers to all of the questions being asked. I suggest he shuts his mouth and listens to the base for a while. We don’t need another doctrinal, ideological debate. We need just to talk to each other about our struggles and then maybe we will realize that the rest of the world is already way ahead of us when it comes o dealing with a world dominated by big, multinationals corporations.

    • GMG

      Amen! I think John does a disservice to occupy wall street by trotting out these adolescent-sounding bits of certitude.  There are severe problems with our system that need serious thoughtful solutions, not ideological bromides along the lines of those that brought pain and suffering to so many millions throughout 20th century.  The 50-year old caller from Rochester is far more persuasive, I think, and if the movement is to have spokespeople, I would suggest people like her rather than younger less wise voices that discredit the whole enterprise.

      • TFRX

        Agreed about the Rochester caller w.r.t. the BU student.

        There’s a risk to be taken when going “off Rolodex” for guests.

        The test is to see how often other shows on NPR stations go “See, this is about socialism!”

  • Ed Siefker

    This country is so far gone, we can’t even count on the rule of law anymore. 

    Goldman Sachs can commit thousands of easily verifiable acts of felony perjury (robosigning), and no one goes to jail.  Thousands of mortgage agents putting fraudulent information on loan applications, and no one goes to jail.

    Yet what would happen if an unemployed father wrote a bad check to buy food for his family?  That’s right, straight to jail.

    There is no way to describe this but tyranny.

    • Dave in CT

      Get the Rule of Law working again. Don’t throw up your hands and look for socialism or communism or Barney Frank and Hank Paulson to save the day…..

    • Fredlinskip

      How long do we continue to pretend that our current system as it  stands now is a democracy.

  • Dave in CT

    I’m for a libertarian economy/society and a flat tax as a foundation, and then a progressive tax when earnings get over say $1 million, with that money directly, equally rebated back to the rest of the people, in a form of capital composting, to reduce the tension and power gap that disparity creates.

    Fund a small, limited, rule of law government with the flat tax, but give the progressive tax back to the  people, not an enlarging, centrally-planning government, that always seems to abuse and misuse, its power.

    • Anonymous

      So when the next hurricane destroys your town I guess you can go around and get up a collection to get those trees and debris removed. Or if you need to have a fire put out you can all run down and get a bucket.

      • Dave in CT

        Nah, I’ll probably keep supporting my local fire department volunteers. I don’t think we need a Washington DC based Dept of Firefighting.  Usually after a hurricane I see alot of people driving around with chainsaws trying to help people.

        I also have homeowners insurance, and if I was foolish enough to live in a flood plain or on shore, I would have to scrape up extra insurance… wait, FEMA and the taxpayers will do that for me, thanks!

        Keep wasting our time with the red herrings though!

  • jim

    No one seems to care about the fact that we have one of the highest standards of living on the planet. That
    these people refer to themselves as 99 percenters is ludicrous.
    Globally speaking these are the 1 percenters. They want a leisurely
    western lifestyle and when it doesn’t come served up they become
    indignant. I find it ironic that these left leaning protestors can so
    easily want to throw a wrench in the works of our economic engine while
    being so thoroughly equipped with the products of it.

    • Edward Porter

      Jim, it is not the protestors who have thrown a wrench in our economic system, it was bankers and corporations using credit default swaps and derivatives trading in an effort to make as much money as they could. They then required multi-billion dollar bail outs. That’s what messed up the economic engine. These protestors are trying to prevent that from happening again by protesting the status quo, which is a system set up to support financial institutions. So much support and political attention has gone to them that the middle class standard of living has fallen. Are you saying that since we have a roof over our head and electricity that we should thank our lucky stars and keep quiet? 

      • Thesmilingbulldog

        I’m not blaming the protesters for our current economic woes. The banks packaged up junk securities, sold them off and had the audacity to bet against them. This is criminal. Without question.

        I’m saying just realize that we still have a great place to live in a dangerous and unstable world. Going the way of endless entitlements puts that status in grave danger. The desire for increased entitlements is the wrench.

    • American #1234

      http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/data/incpovhlth/2010/tables.html
      To bad all these folks can’t afford plane tickets or time off work (if they have a job) to come protest themsleves, God forbid someone speak out for them.

    • Anonymous

      Are you kidding? We live in the west. So what are you advocating?
      That we become a third world nation where by people live in shanty towns and garbage dumps and are ruled by gangs, thugs and paramilitary groups? This is nothing short of right wing ideology at it’s worst.

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        No, his point was that these children ought to show a little gratitude for what they have.  They want to tear down the system that gave them their lives.

        • American #1234

          First of children-whoa, secondly so just because there has been a bit of prosperity, we should all bend over and take it once the powers that bit come knocking. In that case no matter what the government does no one should complain. And the system that gave us our lives was protesting and changing the status quo. Womens Rights, Civil Rights, heck the intial pilgramage from England to the Americas was in protest of “the system that gave them their lives”. Those that are the idealology of “eh, atleast we aren’t Somalia” are blind or should just sit back and let the “children” get the real work done because obviously you just like enjoying what everyone else out there is trying to get done for you. I’m sure if some good comes from this protest you won’t turn down the benefit.

        • litekeep of Sutton, MA

          Greg, the don’t want to tear it down.  They want to change and improve it.  That’s progress.  That’s exactly what this country was founded on.  That’s the American way!  I’m 50, not some kid.  And these folks speak to me.

          I get mailers from the companies I own stock in, who are voting on certain issues at shareholder meetings.  And I’ve never seen one of these where “the Board of Directors recommends” isn’t a part of the mailer.  Issues are raised by stock holders, legitimate issues.  And without question, the only thought that the company brings to this is the bottom line.  They only care about profit.  Well, in my opinion, companies are and should be a lot more than the bottom line. 

          Corporations are tools of mankind to create function and efficiency in the world of business.  And corporations owe it to the society at large to make the world better.  If companies are really equal to people (ie Citizen’s United), then they have an obligation to make the world a better place.  But that’s not how large corporations approach business.  They approach it only from the bottom line (the least common denominator).  The approach they us is “how did we do last quarter?”.  That’s so short sighted.  That’s so limited.  That’s so unjust.

          These aren’t just kids.  Sure, in Boston, there are a lot of kids.  But these protests aren’t just kids.  They ARE speaking for millions.  Maybe not you, but millions of us who are fed up with the inequalities and unjust practices of businesses, like the banks, who act unethically, allow bubbles like the housing bubble to form, and then leverage it so that they nearly take down the economy.  And, when the time comes to pay the piper, no one in charge gets hurt.  Come on!!  If it were you or I, we’d be in jail forever!!!  But NO ONE was punished for this.  And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

          The banks ruined not only millions of IRAs and 401Ks, but millions of individuals and families who’ve lost their homes, and jobs.  “Occupy” is fighting against this injustice.  These folks are speaking for many so many of us.

        • nj

          Why do you keep misrepresenting what the movement is about?

      • jim

        Most of those 3rd world nations that have shanty towns and gangs and paramilitary groups are acutely left of center. I see no reason to move in that direction. Or in that of Europe, which seems to limp from crisis to crisis.

        My issue with these protestors is that their anger is misplaced. Some trader on wall street is not the reason these people can’t get jobs or have heavy student loans. (Technically speaking Washington has assumed much of the student loan debt but I doubt anyone will protest the federal government because there’s no political currency in it.)

        I’m all for reinstating Glass – Steagall or telling banks they can’t blend personal and commercial banking interests. But you have to get over the hackneyed image of mustache twirling robber barons stealing from the helpless masses. Again, globally speaking these protestors are near the top. If they have any doubts I’m sure they could look it up on their ipads.
         

    • Steve T

      The most recent BLS Employment Situation report
      shows that in May, 13.9 million were out of work, 8.5 million were
      “employed part time for economic reasons,” and 2.2 million were
      “marginally attached to the labor force,” meaning they said they wanted
      work but had stopped looking. So the true total is 24.6 million.

      The highest unemployment in recorded history
      You can’t have a high standard of living with no job.

      So when G.E. started in the banking industry which I disagree with and I’m opposed to I’m supposed to throw away my refrigerator?
      So who being ludicrous?

      • jim

        If this was simply about unemployment I think the movement would receive a considerable amount of sympathy.

        Regarding your kitchen… if you only dislike what GE does I’d say hang on to your refrigerator. But you want to move to a system where there are no corporations and the state controls almost everything then I’d suggest that you should remember that all of the wealth we have and all of the sweet gadgets available (with the amazing by-product that is innovation) are a result of those corporations.

        My point was about irony. Entitled people waiving the angry banner of corporate dismemberment while being more than adequately equipped with the products of it. And doing this in one of the wealthiest countries (for now) on earth.

        Again, I support Glass – Steagall and banking reform. But I was addressing the protestors ire towards corporations generally and their WILD sense of over-entitlement (debt forgiveness, a wage whether or not they work, the end of the corporate concept etc.) coupled with what seems to be a desire to move substantially towards the left.

  • Ben

    Jon Phoenix: very articulate. Thanks for helping get this message out.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Articulate in cliches–such an achievement.

    • Anonymous

      I will say that his heart is in the right place, and his idealism is fine in some ways, but also bad in others.  He has a grasp of some of the problems, and he needs to learn from others’ experience.  I am just as idealistic as Jon, and I am more than twice as old as he is — and I am learning all the time.

      My favorite part of the Occupy… protests is that people are *listening* to each other.  The “people’s megaphone” or whatever moniker you want to give it, let’s everyone hear what is being said, and focus on the ideas.

      Neil

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paul-Garver/100000283457378 Paul Garver

    I have participated in several of the marches and actions around the Occupy Boston movement (at age 71) and am very impressed by the thoughtfulness and determination of both the occupiers and those from labor, community and student organizations that support the common demands of the 99%.

    As we continue to deepen and expand these protests, we need to calmly debate the next steps for this broader movement. This discussion was a great example. Thanks for asking good and provocative questions, Tom!

    While I tend to agree more on long-term strategy with my coeval Todd Gitlin, I thought that Bre, Jon and Peter presented their ideas in an effective and convincing way. Congrats to all of you!

    Paul Garver

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paul-Garver/100000283457378 Paul Garver

    I have participated in several of the marches and actions around the Occupy Boston movement (at age 71) and am very impressed by the thoughtfulness and determination of both the occupiers and those from labor, community and student organizations that support the common demands of the 99%.

    As we continue to deepen and expand these protests, we need to calmly debate the next steps for this broader movement. This discussion was a great example. Thanks for asking good and provocative questions, Tom!

    While I tend to agree more on long-term strategy with my coeval Todd Gitlin, I thought that Bre, Jon and Peter presented their ideas in an effective and convincing way. Congrats to all of you!

    Paul Garver

  • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

    New People’s Army in the Philippines has one goal in their political agenda to distribute the wealth of the nation to all Filipinos.

    No Rich and No Poor. All Filipinos must have equal wealth and equal distribution of food,business and politics.

    They are Communist

  • 5242shabaka

    Great to see your concern.  We in Hartford, CT are an example of a one party corrupt system that appears incapable of solving any problems, yet they continue to stay in office.  The Hartford Metropolitan Area is said to be one richest and best educated in the nation, while the capitol is the fourth poorest in the country.  This is an example of the structural problems innate in our current system.  With money and power in the hands of the few, of system of structural inequality has been installed.  Entitlements are usually thought of as part of the social network that help the poor, but in reality, the rich feel entitled to special control and ownership over the nation’s resource.  

    • Anonymous

      SOS. Same old shit.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

        We in Hartford, CT are an example of a one party corrupt system that
        appears incapable of solving any problems, yet they continue to stay in
        office.

        Beg, borrow, buy or steal a clue:    They “stay” in office because you keep re-electing them!!

  • Anonymous

    I strongly support the Occupy Together movement,May it grow and thrive.
    However,it greatly concerns me that they could contribute to Repubs in the WH,Cabinet etc.This would be even more catastrophic than what we are now experiencing and I have to wonder if those pushing the 3rd party idea are any less callous ,egotistical etc than those currently voting against the people’s interests.
    Thanks,Todd Gitlin,for your comments.

    • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

      So what you’re REALLY saying is you fear the defects in our political system, one of which is it doesn’t allow instant runoff voting. Then people could vote their conscience yet not throw the election to a minority canidate. Of course the second BIG defect in our system is the Electoral College system which can impose a president on the nation REJECTED by the People.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

        There’s LOTS of other ways we could vote but this is the system we have.    It didn’t stop the Tea Party from going from zero in Jan 2009 to a major national political force, taking over the House and controlling the terms of the debate in less than two years.

        If the left is serious about change instead of wistfully pining away about that they would do if they ruled the world, they need to build a national political movement the way the Tea Party did.

        In the end, if they don’t “Occupy Congress”, then “occupying” Wall Street, Boston and elsewhere is a waste of time.

        • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

          You’re confusing elections in the US with public opinion. Midterm elections typically involve about 35% of the US voting age population (VAP). Newt’s 94 “revolution” reflected the consent of about 17% of the VAP. It was roughly the same in 2010.

          The larger question here is what is it about the US system that we’re about 160th in VAP participation? I think the answer is obvious even if you don’t.  

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

            I think it’s because most people (including me) don’t feel that any of the ballot choices represent us.

            But so what?    The bottom line is still the same -  the ONLY way to change to laws about banking, investments, taxes, etc, is to get people elected to Congress to do it.     And the ONLY way to change electoral law to make it more inclusive is to get people elected who will do that.

            So if Occupy Wall Street can’t turn their protest into votes they will accomplish noting and are wasting their time.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            There has to be a broader agenda than just economic… to develop a long term strategy to correct the defects in our political system.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            There has to be a broader agenda than just economic… to develop a long term strategy to correct the defects in our political system.

          • Fredlinskip

            Let’s hope for the best and do what we can to further their cause.
            Aye?

          • Fredlinskip

            Let’s hope for the best and do what we can to further their cause.
            Aye?

        • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

          The idea that the Tea Party some organic grassroots movement is laughable. Surely you remember how way way back in summer 09 Dick Army’s FreedomWorks site had materials and instructions how to distrupt town meetings when congress went home. The Tea Party was the GOPs cynical attempt to get the attention off their role in the Bush Crash and channel anger towards Obama. Sadly it meshed well with Obama’s agenda of not holding Wall St, corporate Dems, or the GOP responsible.     

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

            This doesn’t mean they don’t have grass-roots support.   It just means they’re effective and well-organized.   They do an excellent job of getting out the vote.  

            And my main point is that they did this in the context of the current system, so lefties complaining that the current system makes it impossible to shake up the political establishment are just making excuses.

        • Fredlinskip

            Hopefully OWS will develop in similar fashion as Tea Party.
           
             Tea party will always be better funded, since their interests seem to align with the top 1%ers (coincidence??) 
             Can picture how it would be much easier for T partiers to buy air time, when OWS are criticizing many of the same corporate sponsors of the media outlets they are attempting to advertise on.

  • Let’s get real

    “but if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao, you ain’t gonna make it with anyone anyhow”  – John Lennon, Revolution

    I don’t think the two guests speak for the whole movement.  People are there because they feel the system is rigged to benefit people and corporations at the top while the bottom are lucky to get crumbs that fall from their table.  People power is the only way to shift it back – the 99% vs the 1% need to become a political power that can’t be ignored – as the Tea Party demonstrated.  But talk of forming a 3rd party along the lines of socialism and communism is pie in the sky.  That was then this is now.  Something must be done to rein in big business and its influence over politics and government and to create a democracy that works for people – but listenening to some kid still wet behind the ears talk about radical change of the whole system makes me think no one will take them seriously.  Work within the system to change it.

    • Fredlinskip

      Hopefully, before it’s through, the movement “find’s it’s voice” and a better informed one than we heard today.
      At least the lack of organization of the demonstations seems to indicate that this TRULY IS a “grass roots” movement.

  • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

    The term traitor has both legal and moral definitions. In the moral sense I hold the following are TRAITORS to the United States and its People.

    1: Politicians in BOTH parties who passed irresponsible tax cuts with the deliberate intent of creating massive debt as a backdoor way to undermine our social safety net. This has not just created massive interest payments… almost $3 trillion alone in the Bush years, stolen from our children, but also sabotaged government’s ability to respond to emergencies.

    2: Politicians in BOTH parties who put ideology over common sense and passed free trade which exported our jobs and undermined our economy and standard of living. This has not only undermined our defense industry but is now crippling the economic recovery.

    3: Politicians in BOTH parties who permitted advanced technology transfers to Red China and have allowed the US to become indebted to the Red Chinese who now have the power to destabilize the US. In a mere 15 years we have undermined our own economy and created a powerful economic and military rival.

    4: Politicians in BOTH parties who deregulated the banks and commodity sectors letting the greedy predators run wild to prey on homeowners, small investors, and our retirement funds. They have robbed our youth of a future. They sabotaged the productive parts of our economy and allowed it to be replaced with irresponsible speculation and gambling. Like in 1929 this ultimately crashed the entire economy.

    5: Politicians in BOTH parties who bailed out Wall Street predators and thieves without massively reforming our economic system so the Crash Of 2008 could never happen again.

    6: Politicians in BOTH parties who have refused to try to free us being held hostage to foreign oil from a hostile region of the world.

    7: Politicians in BOTH parties who for political gain got the US bogged down in illegal wars of aggression… weakening our military and economy while undermining US credibility around the world, then passed the bill on to our children.

    If our ENEMIES had done this to our nation, all real patriots would have declared war on these traitors long ago. Does Occupy Wall Street need specific goals? How about for a start: REVERSE THE ABOVE!!

    • twenty-niner

      Excellent List!

    • Modavations

      Cut the friggin spending.Half the govt. is needless.5 agencies for fresh water salmon and 5 for salt water salmon.Tickets issued to kids at their Lemonade Stands.

      • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

        There’s no use asking you this question again since you’ll just EVADE it again… how do you pay down debt with spending cuts alone? At SOME point you need excess REVENUE….
         
        But we were there in 2001 when Bush and the GOP slashed revenue even though We The People were $6 TRILLION in debt.  
         
        The Right simply can’t be trusted NOT to increase debt because it’s the central core of their strategy to dismantle Safety Net programs.

        • Modavations

          Cut 5% a year for five years.We arn’t going to get out of this quickly.In fact,I’d say tthere’s only a 50% chance we’ll get out of it at all.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            As I wrote: “There’s no use asking you this question again since you’ll just EVADE it again… how do you pay down debt with spending cuts alone? At SOME point you need excess REVENUE…. ”

            You EVADED THE QUESTION AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Ben

    We need to stop cowering to the corrupt 2-party system. The internet and social media are allowing unprecedented organization of the 99% as they call it. We CAN start a 3rd party that is not beholden to the special interests and wall street. We CAN eliminate the corrupt representatives by installing a system whereby WE represent OURSELVES — COMPUTERS ACT AS THE MEDIUM BETWEEN THE VOTER AND THE LAW. Our Congress then becomes virtual — a realized democratic society that actually works.

    • Fredlinskip

      Your heart’s in right place , but it can backfire.
      You’ve got a year to get it together.
      3rd party is what got W elected.
      Which is all right, I guess, as long as you don’t mind unfunded and unecessary Wars, tax cuts for the fabulously wealthy, don’t care about environment, or the constitution, or the supreme court, or anyone who isn’t in top couple of per cent.
      Good luck yto you.

    • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

      The two-party system is an accident of our primitive electoral system. Unfortunately the system as a whole is antidemocratic and virtually reform proof. What Progressives need in the US is a 50 year strategy to reform the Constitution into a multi-party democracy. I think it starts in the states pushing for proportional representation there. Here are some thoughts from 2004
      http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132×1316860

  • Anonymous

    people like gitlin never explain what has ever been accomplished by supporting the democrat party.  Instead he, and his ilk, keep urging everyone to continue to support dems by trying to scare us that a third party would result in the election of republicans.  We’re still waiting to hear how electing dems will somehow bring about social change since it has not to date; see, obama; see, clinton.

    The best that gitlin and his ilk can offer is that dems will cut social security and medicare by a slightly smaller margin than republicans. 

    We’ve been hearing this stuff since the sixties.  Another guy, below, claims that the u.s. government will end up like israel or italy, not able to accomplish anytihng .  He probably missed the u.s. government deficit and tax debates of this past summer.

    “Nothing changes, nothing remains the same.”

    • Fredlinskip

      Any suggestions? Or have you just completely given up?
       

      • Anonymous

        dude,

        Do you respond to everyone that you disagree with by implying that they have given up?  Or did you find some hidden meaning in my screed against dem party hacks that showed that I have given up?

        You certainly can’t be implying that anyone who opposes the right of center tax working peope, cut the taxes of the rich, cut pensions, social security and medicare policies of the democrat party has given up.

        • Fredlinskip

          Pardon me.
          My take on your comment was it contained a lot of criticisms, but few suggestions.
          It’s easier to tear down than build up.

          • Anonymous

            actually it contained only one critisim: it was critical of the argument that those of us who dissent from current government policies should back democrat party candidates.  My comment was a response to something said on the program not my manifesto for how to change the world and it included some of my reasons why a vote for the democrat party is a dead end and a vote for the enemies of economic justice.  It would also seem implicit in my comment that that I am “suggest[ing]” support for a third party since I believe that the democrat party is not the way to go.
            By the way, why don’t you make some constructive suggestions instead of simply critizing the comments of others?  Or is the reason for your ad hominem comments simply that you disagree with the comments? 

          • Fredlinskip

            By the tone of your responses I’m not so sure you want my opinions- oh well here goes anyhow:

            Now that you’ve made the intent of your comment more clear, here’s a suggestion:
            Judging by the role 3rd parties have played in the past it might not be such a bad idea to try to work with what we’ve got as distasteful as that may seem. I’d love to see a viable 3rd party if I truly thought it would win. I don’t think it can. That’s just my view.
            Then again I suppose if a movement such as the OWS can be coopted by a party and influence it such as tea partiers have been coopted by GOP, I could go for that.
               I’ve been wrong before- might happen again. At least I’ve got the courage to admit it.

            Here’s another suggestion- keep your mind open and I’ll try and do the same.
            Later 

  • Anonymous

    ps John,have a little humility.Listen to Todd Gitlin’s comments and don’t imitate the worst in today’s politics by letting your rash opinions lead others off the cliff.

  • Chgraham2004

    Thanks to NPR for giving these kids their 60 minutes of fame.  Now let’s get back to a serious conversation….

    • Scott B, Jamestown NY

      Why discount them because of their youth? Should they discount you because of your age? I don’t know how old you are, but you might be from a generation that was largely apathetic (if not outright against): gay rights, desegregation, equal rights for women,  etc.   I don’t know that I would want someone with the mores of my grandparents telling me how to live my life and to shut up and let the grown-ups speak. Seems to me the “grown-ups” and the status quo in business and politics got us into this mess and the younger crowd wants to get us out of it.

  • Scott B, Jamestown NY

    The occupiers don’t feel entitled to anything but being able to get a job. Yeah, there’s the coffee shop, McDonalds, and Walmart, and I don’t see most expecting to drop into a high-paying job right out of school. But after the coffee shop what is there? NOTHING! And that’s what they’re protesting along with the bad, broken, and sometimes outright corrupt, Wall St and political rules and policies that got us into the recession, resulted in millions of people out of work and out of the homes, and a dysfunctional political system that’s overrun by business interests and mired in ideologies that is beyond being just disconnected from the 99% of Americans these people are protesting for.

    Let’s not forget that these are all college age kids. Many are older people that can’t find a job because they’re “old”, or have been out of work so long they are no longer counted as “unemployed” by the gov’t, and potential employers are legally entitled to excluded in their help wanted ads.

    Glass-Steagal protected us from another Great Depression for almost 80 years, and when it was repealed look what happened!  Banks lobbied to get the rules changed, invented new math where someone making little money could get a McMansion, deliberately sold bad paper, helped write bad laws, helped Greece cook their books, and the list of bad acts goes on and on…  Then, when it went bad, they were bailed out with NO conditions.  What happened? The execs
    didn’t change, they got their billions in pay and bonuses, kept doing
    business as usual, stopped lending to small business and regular people, and the HAMP and HARP
    (both intended on helping people stay in their homes) were massive
    failures to the Americans that needed them because the banks had no reason to help – and the few they did help often ended up getting that help negated.

    Contrast that to the auto industry bailout that the vast majority of economists say prevented millions more from being unemployed and possibly driving us into a depression.  Execs were changed, companies and workers (and the unions) worked together, money was paid back with interest in a very timely manner. It stands as the shining example of what can be done in dire times.

    The Wall St occupiers aren’t against capitalism, they’re against bad capitalism. 

    • Chgraham2004

      Look at Google, or Facebook, firms that were started by college kids and are changing the world.  Are they evil, soul-less corporate creatures?  I think not, or at least the vast majority of Occupiers who use these services seem not to think so based upon their social media consumption preferences.  This “the system is screwing me…” argument is a cop-out, pure and simple.  Go take some risk and advance an idea, and if people choose not to buy it suck it up and try again….

      • Edward Porter

        Yes, let’s all go found billion dollar corporations, easy! Good luck getting a bank to loan you some start up cash.

        • GretchenMo

          Put it on your credit card like everyone else did.  How much does it cost to set up a company in the knowledge economy?

        • Chgraham2004

          So you’re saying Google and Facebook were not founded by college kids?  But let’s say these high-fliers are bad examples for argument’s sake.  I was at Northeastern University last week and met a kid who started a laundry service.  A basic, low tech, non-glamorous endeavor, and he pays a big chunk of his tuition doing it….

      • TFRX

        How well versed are you in economic mobility statistics over the last ~40 years? When is the last time you, as a small bidness owner, had to apply for a loan? Do you know what “median income” is and how it has tracked over the last third of a century?

        This rah-rah talk is at odds with economic reality except for the very few. It has gotten much worse in my lifetime and in yours.

        If you’re saying that this bounty is here only for the Googles (I forget that guy’s name) or the Zuckerbergs of the world, well, good luck selling that.

        • Scott B, Jamestown NY

          I’ve tried to get small business loans and to get one it seemed that first I had to prove that I didn’t need one. If I had the cash and collateral they wanted me to have I’d have had the biz up and running and not dressed in a suit with a tin cup in my hand at the bank.  The worst part was that in one case I had papers from the businesses that I was going to be providing services to stating that as soon as I had the business going I was GUARANTEED have revenue from them that would have been 5X what the loan was for.  WTF?

        • Chgraham2004

          There’s nothing rah-rah about self confidence and hard work bud.  If you can’t compete don’t whine…

      • Scott B, Jamestown NY

        The guys from Google and Zuckerberg are also hiding assets overseas thanks to our tax laws.  Google, in fact, is doing wjat called “the Irish”, which is basically a fancy form or legalized money laundering that can be legally done because of the laws we have here and the way corporations can “operate” (read – “mailbox”) in Ireland.  So while they want to change the world, they seem to be suiting up with the Wall St team.

        • notafeminista

          No reason they can’t do both.

    • Fredlinskip

      We have to have more deregulation.
      Banks, corps, need do whatever they please.
      Even though small businesses and new start-ups are the actual generators of new jobs, we need to find more innovative ways to continue to funnel $ to the richest of corporations “and haves” who are currently sitting on trillions.
      What? Did you think you lived in a country “for and by the people”??

      THINK AGAIN!

      • Modavations

        We have rules and watchdogs up the Yin Yang.Try enforcing a few

        • Dave in CT

          Its more fun to agitate for communism. None of that pesky law school.

    • Scott B, Jamestown NY

      Sorry, I meant to say: “aren’t all college kids..” My bad…

  • Modavations

    Step one is to argue an intellectual point.When that fails ,you get the “know noything students” to demonstrate.Next you infiltrate with union thugs,then the Reichstag is burned.Soros,Trumpka,M.Moore and the rest of the hard communists, form the politboro and the dissenters head to the Gulags.

    • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

      You’re the LAST person to lecture anyone on what constitutes an intellecual discussion.

  • Modavations

    When I was a young lad I’d go to all the Vietnam riots.There was one in D.C.,that must have had a half million participants.While I was a bit more political then,it was mainly to meet chicks and have some excitement.Like the Running og the Bulls.

    • Brett

      Ah, so you would be one of those guys who went to rallies for the “chicks and the weed”…explains a lot, actually. 

      • Anonymous

        Seems to not have grown up at all, one sorry case.

  • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

    Che Guevara Movement is alive in America. But not really I don’t see any flags of Che or the famous image of Dr. Guevara in the demonstrations but the movement is alive and kicking in South America not with the people but with leaders of those countries.

    • Modavations

      Che Guevera was a monsterous, murderer.He would have been right at home in Stalinist Russia,or Pol Pot’s,peoples paradise

      • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

        Perhaps. Maybe some revolutionaries are nothing but psychopaths with power. Unlike their functional sociopathic brethren they don’t have the sense to hide in plain sight… to wear business suits, to rise to power in the US, and murder perhaps a million civilians in Iraq in an illegal war of aggression based on lies.  

  • Modavations

    If you’re 20 and not a socialist, you have no heart.If your 30 and still a socialist ,you have no frigging brains.

    • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

      Did Churchill say that just before he became such a nut he was rejected by his own people?

  • Maria C.

    I don’t know if I support every aspect of this movement and think it should even be broadened is some aspects (agri-business, pharmaceutical industry), but at least something is happening on a national scale that is illustrating how frustrated people are by the inequity and unfairness that is evident in the U.S. today.  Clearly, big banks and big business are wrong for ANY country, and particularly in the U.S. where the American Dream WAS being able to live free, support a family, and live up to one’s potential. As big companies and banks focus more on the bottom line and shareholders instead of stakeholders, CEOs make millions while staff can hardly support themselves, and profits rack up to drive further greed for the top 1%, these problems only perpetuate. I am a 46 year old professional with 15 years of experience and an MBA and have been unemployed going on three years. I am scraping by doing consulting work, which currently is bringing in about $1,000 a month; less than what I used to take home in a week.  Throughout my period of unemployment, my student loan principal balance has gone from $90K to $120K due to capitalization of interest and I have used all of my savings.  I have knocked on doors looking for a job, in addition to applying to 10 – 15 posted jobs each week to no avail. Throughout my career and during these years of unemployment, I can tell you that have become ashamed to be an American. If I ever recoup from this, my future will take me to another part of the world where I can escape taxes, escape toxins from cheap products made in China sold in the U.S, and live a small life where I can live locally. This is where America began. How it got this far out of control in 200 years is beyond me.  All I know is that more people and animals are suffering the consequences because of those at the top.  

    • Fredlinskip

      Average workers and middle class incomes have stagnated for 30 plus years.
      This is result of “trickle up” & “Borrow & Spend” policies majority of Americans seem to have supported.
      Even if Americans as a whole wake up to the problem, it’s not getting fixed overnight.

  • Flowen

    It’s not an issue of capitalism or something else; it’s a matter of breaking the grip the corporations have on government policy-making in taxes, regulations, subsidies and promotion….crony capitalism so ingrained most people think it is a “free market.”

    The US now has a government of the corporations, for the corporations, and by the corporations.

    The playing field is so slanted money just falls out of the pockets of the middle classes in reverse trickle-down, reverse Robin Hood fashion.

    • Fredlinskip

      I’ve got a 10′ statue of Ronnie Raegan in my living room.
      Insult him and you are Unamerican.
      (And support the terrorists too)

      • Modavations

        I have the same one and a matching “Iron Lady”.to boot

        • TFRX

          Irony-deficient? There’s an app for that!

          • Modavations

            And Thought Policeman # 3 has arrived

        • Flowen

          Nudes?

      • Flowen

        I prefer RayGun for the spelling!

    • Modavations

      There is a huge difference between the Crony-Capitalists and small business owners.The “Business of America is business”.

      • Flowen

        No doubt that!…that is why Republicans and Democrats are part of the 99%!

  • Modavations

    If you look closely at the site in NYC,you’ll see it’s ringed by enterpreneurs selling t-shirts saying, “CAPITALISM SUCKS”

    • Steve T

      Yeah and most of the protesters can’t afford to buy one.

      • Modavations

        They’re all young ,rich kids.Look at the picture of the Joe Pheonix.I’m sure he’s a millionaire’s son ,from Newton!!!!I can sell the money

        • Modavations

          I meant,”I can smell the money”

          • Anonymous

            I can smell the intolerance and ignorance.

        • Anonymous

          I bet you’re an ugly fat slob who sits in his mom’s basement and thinks he’s ever sooooo clever. (sarcasm)

          You see I’m making assumptions which are most likely not true which is what you are doing. Even if he’s a millionaires son, so what. He’s still allowed to voice his political opinion, it’s called free speech. Something you do here a lot and something you like to see oppressed. 

          • Modavations

            When there’s no intellectual ripost,start the name calling.You can’t say that!!!!You can’t think that!!!!Where’s my Ball Peen Hammer.

    • Edward Porter

      I wish I could buy a t-shirt that said “Modavations is an angry nut-job.”

    • Anonymous

      So you think our form of capitalism is wonderful?  And you claim to be a libertarian.

      • Modavations

        I’ve been everywhere in the world a million times.I speak Spanish,French,Italian,English.I’m half-assed rich.The best places on Earth are Mexico,USA,and Western Europe.My beef with eUROPE IS THAT THE t.v. sucks.You can’t get O’Reilly

        • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

          Nice fantasy. As I once said, you give away so much personal info it was easy to ID you. I checked…

          • Modavations

            And……….

          • Modavations

            I’ve got one kid sending 28 million Philipinos to kill me and Ultrax is reading my dossier.Are you a frigging stalker.This is downright creepy.Creo que necessito mi vestido anti-balas.

    • notafeminista

      *snort*

  • BarryLiu

    Would somebody explain this to me: 

    The supreme court recent ruling (Jan. 20, 2010) extending First Amendment protection to corporations, i.e. not to limit the political contributions.

    Now, corporations are regarded as  “natural persons” enjoying all the rights.  How come they are not paying the same tax rate as we individual American does?
     
    “The Court has recognized that First Amendment protection extends to corporations. … This protection has been extended by explicit holdings to the context of political speech. … Under the rationale of these precedents, political speech does not lose First Amendment protection “simply because its source is a corporation.” The Court has thus rejected the argument that political speech of corporations or other associations should be treated differently under the First Amendment simply because such associations are not “natural persons.””

    • Modavations

      The Left was in High Dudgeon, until the Unions figured out that the law helped them too.

  • Modavations

    The Republican Party was the Whigs.We freed the Slaves ,who were promptly reenslaved by the Democrats.Dixiecrats,Klu Klux Klan,Robert Byrd.Blacks are now relegated to a life of poverty,because the Dem.Public Schools ,refuse to educate.The ghettos are watched over by the Black Capos, like Al and Jesse and Professor West.I’d pay to see a debate between Obama and Cain.Welfare State Blacks against Free Enterprise blacks.

    • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

      Only your warped mind could conflate the anti-slavery GOP of the 1860′s with today’s toxic, if not insane, GOP. Parties change even if names don’t. Time to deal with reality Einstein… up to it? Didn’t think so.

      • Modavations

        Ah the “Thought Police” have arrived!!!!Some kid lumped you in with me,Not a Feminista,Gregg,et al.I told him you were offended

        • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

          Typical Mo… he actually thinks his evasions can be passed off as responding to my observation his wacky thinking is… wacky.

      • Modavations

        Republicans freed the slaves and Dem.stuck their chattel right back in the ghetto.What’s so sick ,is you did it for a frigging vote.

  • Modavations

    Look at a demonstartion site after a Tea Party rally and one after a rally, by the “Flea Baggers”.The leftists rallies look like Joplin after the tornado.

  • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

    Ford Motor Company snobbed the bail out money offered to them during the great fiasco with auto industry – during the start of the Obama administration.

    Ford never wanted the money, Ford reminded me of my mother for being independent.

    Ford is America!!!

    • Modavations

      Half the banks didn’t want the “doe”either

      • Edward Porter

        A doe is a female deer. Dough is slang for money. You’re making yourself sound stupid, bud, give it a rest.

        • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

          lol.

        • Modavations

          I was in a hurry.When I argue with Leftists I tie half my brain behind my back.

          • Brett

            We’ve noticed!

  • Modavations

    Obama took more donations from Wall St.then anyone in history.Most of the Wall St. guys are Dems.How many mansions of “Dem.Big Whigs”, got beseiged yesterday?

    • Dave in CT

      Please don’t ask those uncomfortable questions around here. Just let the new world order unfold, if you kindly would.

  • GretchenMo

    Once the weather cools, flea bagger protests will wither like the leaves.

  • Modavations

    This can all be solved with Term Limits.We have developed an aristocracy that aims to maintain power,not promote the Public Good.

    • Anonymous

      Well, if you just have a new politician who has had their campaign paid for by the same monied interests as the previous one, then that doesn’t help anything, right?  A string of inexperienced people is no better than a few corrupted people.

      I think transparent campaign finances is more likely to get us to a responsive democracy.

      Neil

      • Dave in CT

        Both!  Deal? lets do it and move on…..

    • GMG

      I think term limits are a problem.  Valuable expertise is gained over multiple terms.  Some topics are so complicated that term-limiting politicians will inevitably result in substantive details being shunted off to lobbyists (which really gained traction when the Republicans came to the House in 1994), or to staffers (the more traditional, and, I think, better approach).

      Focusing on gerrymandering might have the desired effect without dislodging valuable expertise.  That is, making sure the districts are not gerrymandered should ensure that politicians more responsive to their constituents, instead of putting them in secure seats where they can do whatever they want for lobbyists without fear of being voted out. 

      • Modavations

        I’ll take my chances

      • Dave in CT

        “Valuable expertise is gained over multiple terms.”

        On gaming the system for yourself and your crony funders?

        Simplify the system and enforce it harshly.

      • Dave in CT

        “Valuable expertise is gained over multiple terms.”

        On gaming the system for yourself and your crony funders?

        Simplify the system and enforce it harshly.

      • Dave in CT

        “Valuable expertise is gained over multiple terms.”

        On gaming the system for yourself and your crony funders?

        Simplify the system and enforce it harshly.

  • Hjkl_2001

    Playlist Program question: what was the music bump at the end of the first segment?

  • Modavations

    The hero of the left was FDR.He served 4 terms and would haVE DECLARED himselfdictator,if he hadn’t croaked.FDR is the reason for the 26th amendment(presidential term limits?).He called his pal in Russia,Uncle Joe

    • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

      I seem to recall that the GOP wanted to repeal term limits when they thought Reagan could win a 3ed term.

      And the evidence FDR really trusted Stalin is….? Did he ever look into Stalin’s eyes and get a sense of his soul like Bush did Putin?

      • Modavations

        I’m not a Republican.I’m a libertarian.

        • Anonymous

          Enough said.

          • Modavations

            Thought Policeman # 2 has arrived.Put away your Ball Peen Hammer,kid

        • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

          Like with your claim today’s GOP has some relation to the antislavery GOP of the 1850′s… lables often blind than conceal. Call yourself what you want… you’re slavishly right wing.

          • Modavations

            Explain to me the Dems animous to vouchers.Free your chattel!!!

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            More evasion. Please feel free to post when you intend to engage in even a semi-intelligent discussion.

          • Fredlinskip

            Are you arguing again with the Vill…
            never mind

      • Modavations

        FDR and his pal Uncle Joe ,met at Malta and divided up the world

        • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

          Again you AVOIDED answering my question. You made a claim about FDR…

    • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

      And the proof FDR would have declared himself dictator is…? I do remember some on the ultra Right ploting to overthrow a duly elected president.

      • Modavations

        He stacked the Supreme Court

        • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

          Moda, can you EVER get anything right? FDR attempted to get legislation to add more justices to the USSC. He acted within the law. I find NO mention in the Contitution there must be nine justices and not more.

  • Modavations

    How about a Romney-Cain ticket?

    • Edward Porter

      No.

    • Gregg

      How bout Cain/Newt?

      • Modavations

        General G,I love Newt and he’s my 1st choice,but let’s face it,he’s damaged goods

        • Dave at Occupy Austin

          LOL, they’re all damaged.  

          • Modavations

            My Guppy would beat Obama

        • Gregg

          Probably so but I’m sick of liberals telling us which candidates are viable. He’s rising in the polls… for whatever that’s worth. I’m thinking Veep.

  • Modavations

    I noticed Code Pink was at the rally.Where were they during the Libya adventure?.Oh I forgot.Dem.wars good,Rep.wars evil.I got news for you
    Medea,Obama is setting up the incursion of Iran.

  • Modavations

    Does anyone know how much Tom A. gets for a salary?.Me thinks he may be one of the Capitalist Running Dogs

  • Rwmagner

    Rather than the OWS protesters focusing on presidential elections, a third party and changing capitalism, a more effective and realistic effort may be a referendum on congressional term limits. Shorter terms would change the focus of our congressional representatives from a lifetime (political) congressional career towards the job at hand.  And reduce a congressman’s susceptibly to influence of corporations, lobbyists and big-money campaign contributors. A refinement such as this would have a leveling effect on members of congress, and diminish cronyism and reduce corruption.  This is an opportunity to bring ‘term limits’ to the forefront!

  • Fredlinskip

    Information Age was supposed to lead to more informed public opinion- It didn’t work. Instead information age has been a highly effective tool in twisting public opinion to the benefit of a few.
     
    Even before “info  age”, majority of Americans were lead to believe that “Supply side” economics, (i.e. make the rich richer) was good for the country and that revenue was not required to fund policy.
    The result: HUGE DEFICITS and a BROKEN ECONOMY.
     
    Americans have been lead like lambs to the slaughter. 
    The only HOPE (to quote Obama) is that Americans choose to become more informed. Without informed public- there’s no Democracy.

    • Dave at Occupy Austin

      Gotta teach critical thinking skills.  Once a person has that, s/he can be as free of their lies as s/he want to be.  

      • Fredlinskip

        That’s a tall order!

      • Fredlinskip

        That’s a tall order!

      • Fredlinskip

        That’s a tall order!

      • Fredlinskip

        That’s a tall order!

  • Steve T

    Politicians and corporations believe the sayings of P.T Barnum “There’s a sucker born every minute” but even suckers get wise.

    • Karen

      You can fool people some of the time but not all of the time.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

        If you fool enough of them some of the time, that’s enough.

        • Edward Porter

          Fool me once…. won’t get fooled again.

      • Fredlinskip

        It’s all right ot be mislead for a while. But when facts are brought to light contrary to your opinion- HAVE THE COURAGE TO CHANGE IT. Otherwise you’re a fool forever.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

      How does “getting wise” help?     That’s the whole problem with OWS -  they justify their protest by saying they’re “raising awareness”.     That and two bucks will buy you a cup of coffee.  

      If they want to make real change they need to “occupy Congress” with progressive politicians and I haven’t seen their plan for that.
       

      • Steve T

        Notice I put politicians first?

  • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

    Capitalism is the root of all evil.

    • Anonymous

      Please move to North Korea for 5 years and then I might listen to your views of capitalism.

      • Anonymous

        This is no longer capitalism. We have 2… wait now 3? trillion dollars in capital sitting on the sidelines. So much for supplyside GOPonomics! This is now a cleptoracy owned by billionaire gamblers who are moving their chips to the gaming tables overseas.

        • Modavations

          When there’s something worth investing in,or a market  buying their products,the resources will be used.

    • Modavations

      Capitalist countries  have always afforded theitr populaces unrivaled standards of living.Communist countries are basket cases.The richest place on earth is “laissez faire” Hong Kong,even the bums are well coiffed 

  • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

    Did you remember Gordon Gecko of Wall Street movie part 1.

    He had a public speech and he said. “Look at these CEOs, they make millions and I still can’t figure it out “What They Do”.

    • Modavations

      Read BonFire of Vanities.”Golden Crumbs”

  • notafeminista
  • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

    Branstad told me to move to North Korea. How can I move to North Korea when there is no Capitalism. if Branstad asked me to move to China, then I will move to China because there is Capitalism. A Communist style (Capitalist Communist).

    • Modavations

      The Philipines is a giant whore house.The poverty is unspeakable.Only a dolt would return

      • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

        Whore house? you mean every Filipino is a whore? WOW!!!!
        Modavations you need to watch lingo before 28 million Filipinos will be after your head.

        • Modavations

          Spoken like a true Fascisti.I’ll stick by my prognosis.

          • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

            No Facist you are just too Naive. that’s what you get for watching those Anti-Communist commercial that the US government promoted duriing the cold war.

            I grew up in the Marcos dictatorship. I know what it feels and you NEVER experience any form of government in your life except for one.

          • Modavations

            I’ve been to Cebu 3 times

  • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

    If Communism is a failure why is China getting richer than America?
    If Socialism is a failure why are the Chinese people have Jobs and Americans don’t?

    If Communism is a failure why America a democratic country is borrowing from a Communist country like China?

    • Edward Porter

      Because China is not really a communist country. They are part of the global capitalist system, make no mistake about it.

      • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

        They invented the Capitalist Communist economy. A new economic strategy for the 21st Century. It will be teach in colleges all over the world soon. Capitalism in America took the wrong turn.

        No doubt about that.

      • Modavations

        Poppy cock.It’s a fascist state

        • Dave at Occupy Austin

          “China is not really a communist country. They are part of the global capitalist system”

          “Poppy cock. It’s a fascist state”

          “Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power.” – Benito Mussolini
           

          • Modavations

            Do you mean the Socialist editor of” Avanti”, in Trento.That Benito???

          • Dave at Occupy Austin

            People change.  And an power-hungry opportunist Mussolini will seize any vehicle,  be it be a Wolkswagon or Humvee, if it will get them where they want to go.

            Are you one of those who fell for Jonah Goldberg’s distortions and lies?    

          • Dave at Occupy Austin

            People change.  And an power-hungry opportunist Mussolini will seize any vehicle,  be it be a Wolkswagon or Humvee, if it will get them where they want to go.

            Are you one of those who fell for Jonah Goldberg’s distortions and lies?    

        • Dave at Occupy Austin

          “China is not really a communist country. They are part of the global capitalist system”

          “Poppy cock. It’s a fascist state”

          “Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power.” – Benito Mussolini
           

    • Aa

      Because China has adopted a corporate dictatorship:  state run industries and corporations receiving subsidies at the national and regional level.  China has accumulated gigantic currency reserves by manipulating their currency.  Western old economies have allowed this – not challenged it. That is why China is getting richer, has many jobs, and has money to lend.  China has maintained the Communist disdain for and oppression of individual – it appears to be a highly successful model.

      • Modavations

        This is called Fascism.The economy is private,but the party owns all their bosses

        • Ed Siefker

          Contrast this with America.  Where the government is ostensibly public, but private power pulls the strings. The end result is the same.

          • Modavations

            I never noticed anyone dissappear in the good old USA

        • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

          Please stop pretending you have some monopoly on the definitions of socialism and fascism. In your warped view of the world Nazi Germany was “socialistic”. There are more dimensions to fascism than economic… such as aggressive nationalism. The Russian and Chinese “communist” movements were NOT Marxian. They intended to skip over the stages of historical development Marx believed were needed to bring on socialism then communism.

          As much as you need a simplistic world view, the world proves over and over that labels often mean nothing. Your anti-slave GOP soon gave up its progressive roots of the 1850s and soon sold out to big business by the 1880s. Yet you still think today’s psychopathic GOP is the same as it was back in Lincoln’s day. Today’s GOP uses fiscal irresponsibility as its chief political strategy yet still uses the language of old time fiscal conservatives.  

      • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

        So What! it works for them and that’s there country. America is democratic people still control people no matter what.

        To praise the have and to control the have nots.

    • Flowen

      The form of government is less important than if the government acts wholistically. A holistic dictatorship can be a better environment for the public than a sham democracy.

      Why China is so much more vibrant than the US has much more to do with the fact that China is a young, adolescent industrial economy, and the US is a matured, old industrial economy that no longer has the vibrancy to support the massive institutional structure we have created….the ultra wealthy are absorbing what vitality they can as they move their interests to more vibrant economies elsewhere.

    • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

      You’re not making a case for the Chinese being innately good at capitalism. You’re making the case capitalism made Americans sabotage their own good judgment and intellect with free trade.
      And are the Chinese REALLY getting richer than Americans? By what standard is your measure? Per capita GDP?

  • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

    We are living in the 21st Century, Communism doesn’t necessarily means a government to control people. It is a government that will control the economies of the world.

    China is doing it now.

    • Anonymous

      Well I doubt that would here very well, but you and Tom Friedman have something in common.

    • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

      It was the capitalist WEST that built up China. They couldn’t resist cheap labor controlled by the iron fist of the Communist Party.  

      • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

        WRONG another arrogance of America. Chinese are worlds expert in Trade and Business. The Chinese has been doing that since the silk trade, Barter trade and Galleon trade with the spaniards.

        Why do you think there are Chinese all over the World even in a war torn country of Somalia? because expansion of business trade with other nations. America even learned that during the Trans-Atlantic railroad constructions that Chinese workers are more reliable and cheaper than American rail road workers.

        • Guest

          “Why do you think there are Chinese all over the World even in a war torn country of Somalia?”

          May be ’cause there is 1B+ of them altogether.

          • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

            Filipinos are not even close to 1 Billion but we are also all over the world.

        • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

          And where was China BEFORE all that western investment in the 90′s? Where would China be now without all those mandatory technology transfers they demanded of western companies?

          • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

            Chinese will get IT FROM somewhere ELSE if the Americans did not give those technology to them. there is Pakistan, Russia or Iran.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            Yup… Russia, Pakistan, and India were real cutting edge economies back in the early 90′s. You seem determined to DENY China was at all helped to leapfrog its economy into the 21st century with western capital and technology. And your entire defense is they’re natural traders… and they put up a satellite.  

        • Modavations

          Name me a Chinese invention of the 20th Century.Opium doesn’t count

          • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

            Communist Capitalism.

          • Dave at Occupy Austin

            British corporations imported opium from India INTO China, and forced the Chinese gov’t to like it — and the British taxpayers paid for the two wars to enforce it.  

  • Aaa

    Its simple.   Get the money out of politics.   That’s it. 

    Make lobbying illegal unless its done via a lottery and is broadcast on the web.

    Take back our govt from the highest bidder.   Wall St. Corp America.

    Its really that simple.

    • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

      Just as there’s a separation of Church and State, there MUST be a separation of Money and State.

      • GretchenMo

        That’s why I want lower tax rates, you are preaching to the choir, give the State less Money and happiness ensues!

        • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

          It’s too late to bitch and moan about taxes when We The People are all ready $14.5 TRILLION in debt. Hey, it’s been a free lunch the past 30 years… we spent all that money on ourselves and refused to tax ourselves for it. Please Einstein, explain how taxes can be too high?

    • Flowen

      It’s unrealistic to stop lobbying, and like speculating on the markets, it serves the public very well when it works well with proper and properly enforced regulation.

      The lobby problem is simply solved: require corporations and industry groups to fund public interest lobby groups equally, dollar for dollar, with what they spend on their lobbying efforts. It will yield better knowledge of problems and solutions, and more balanced solutions…in contrast to the current extortion and bribe process of granting corporations and industry groups most of what they want most of the time….at the expense of the public.

    • Anonymous

      Even easier would be to move the power of our government closer to the people.  Anything not specifically designated to the Federal Government in the constitution or its amendments should be handled by the states and the list of federal powers is pretty short.  

      It would be much harder for lobbyists to lobby 50 states than it is for them to set up permanent camp in Washington DC.

      • Fredlinskip

        Too bad we didn’t allow the 2000 election to be “handled by the states”.
        Votes were still being counted, before Scalia & Co. stepped in.

      • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

        Thanks for AGAIN demonstrating your ignorance of the Constitution you so pretend to cherish. The Constitution makes CLEAR that part of the function of the new government is to promote the GENERAL WELFARE… and it has the taxing authority to do so. Now you can PRETEND to have a monopoly on the definition of the term but you’d be wrong. James Madison, who knows a bit more about the Constitution than you, proposed in the FIRST CONGRESS taxing shipping tonnage for lighthouses and hospitals for disabled seamen.

        • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

          I think both of you are ignorant.

          • Anonymous

             Please read the federalist papers and then we can have a well informed conversation.

          • Fredlinskip

            Please read something, anything other than the Federalist papers, so we can have an informed conversation.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            Thanks for adding the LEAST intelligent response yet to this thread. I didn’t think anyone could beat B at that.

        • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

          I think both of you are ignorant.

        • Anonymous

          ulTRAX,

          I would hope that you would read the Federalist Papers before you pretend to know what the constitution states.   Since the Federalist Papers were written by the founders of our nation and used to explain our constitution to the people to gain popular support, you can’t possibly understand the constitution until you read its explanation in the own words of our founding fathers.  They have the monopoly on the matter.

          Please read these documents and then we can have a well informed conversation.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            The Federalist Papers were written to SELL the Constitution… not critique it. Try reading the Anti-Federalist Papers. And it’s not as if the Federalist Papers were entirely honest. For instance there’s NO mention of Madison’s private intent for the Senate.

            From his secret notes of the Constitutional Convention: “Landholders ought to have a share in the government, to support these invaluable interests, and to balance and check the other. They ought to be so constituted as to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority. The senate, therefore, ought to be this body; and to answer these purposes, they ought to have permanency and stability.”

            http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/James_Madison
             

    • twenty-niner

      How about getting politicians who can be bought out of politics, and getting real leaders who understand who they’re supposed to be working for in.

  • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

    I am not a communist follower. I just want to tell the world that communist capitalist is far more stronger than a democratic capitalism.

    • Anonymous

      so you are saying we should fear North Korea and their communist capitalist ideas? or is Cuba more of what you are talking about? 

      LOL, when you get to high school I hope your history teacher can show you how many communist countries have ended in starvation and death since our great American Democracy was started.

      • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

        I am talking about China. you are the one who wants ME to move to North Korea. I got a High School Diploma already when I was 16. I have a degree in Political Economy minor Political Science when I was 20. My history teacher is now teaching in Saudi Arabia about world politics. yes I was born in the Philippines - A third world country but it doesn’t mean I’m stupid.

        • Four Elements

          Attaboy! Don’t take any crap.

  • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

    Who is Tom Friedman?

    • Anonymous

      He writes books and for the NY Times and once said it would great for the US to be China for a few days to get some things done so to speak. He was of course being a little flippant in my view.

  • Anonymous

    Occupy L.A. Speaker: Violence will be Necessary
    to Achieve Our Goals
    Here’s a transcript, starting at 32 seconds into the video:
    Occupy L.A. Speaker: “One of the speakers said the solution
    is nonviolent movement. No, my friend. I’ll give you two examples: French
    Revolution, and Indian so-called Revolution.
    Gandhi, Gandhi today is, with respect to all of you, Gandhi today is
    a tumor that the ruling class is using constantly to mislead us.
    French Revolution made fundamental transformation. But it was
    bloody.
    India, the result of Gandhi, is 600 million people living in maximum
    poverty.
    So, ultimately, the bourgeoisie won’t go without violent
    means. Revolution! Yes, revolution that is led by the working
    class.
    Long live revolution! Long live socialism!”
    Crowd: [Cheers.]

  • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

    Funny how people explain Text Book Style of explanation like a copy and past explanation about China.
    One great reason why China is more successful in the global market.
    Because of Cheap labor and low standard of living. Try paying Americans what the Chinese laborers gets and you will see all the Jobs returning to America but we can’t!!!! Why because of the high cost of Health Care, prescription drugs, the high minimum wage, etc etc. there are a lot of factors but manufacturing jobs will never return to America full blown. it will but probably 1% percent each year.

    GE move to Brazil because the customers are there not in America more factors more reason that JOB will not return in America.

    It is true it is real. sorry

    One thing American can do is to educate the young people in Science and Math just like what Germany and Japan doing to there youths.
    training them to expert in innovations not Mcdonald’s Jobs

    • Flowen

      Yes…the fact it costs so so much just to live, and the corporations have never been richer while people and governments have never been poorer precludes any reasoned change to the Status Quo….increasing breakdowns are inevitable.

  • Anonymous

    “People can’t get jobs in their fields”.  

    Ummm…
    Why should I feel sorry about this?  Welcome to life.  I keep telling people CSS coders are making $50 / hour in the contractor market.  That says undersupply to me.  Php developers $100/hour.  

    Also, as someone who *sacrificed* a great deal to keep my college expenses low (as friends spent their loan money on fancy dinners), I think that paying for peoples college education hurts everyone who chooses to go into the trades, or who works hard to get scholarships.

    • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

      You’re trying to say that a temporary shortage in some highly specialized areas should be generalized to the entire economy? Looks like that college education of yours has failed in one basic respect: you failed to learn any logical thinking skills.

      • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

        Nurses are badly needed in America and care givers! can the general population enroll in nursing school? yes they can.

      • Anonymous

        It’s a temporary shortage that has lasted for the past 8 years about 2001 — and probably before.

        Also, when you learn one computer coding language you can pick up others.  Besides a bit of HTML/CSS I’ve managed to pick up a bit of JavaScript, PHP, ASP, and ActionScript.  I can deal with Experssion Engine and a multiple of other Content Management Systems, set up a Word Press site and talk intelligently to big time programmers.

        And anyone with Logical Thinking Skills will learn skills that will get them a job before they get out of college.

      • Modavations

        Are you a gymnast.The contortions you go through are breathtaking.

  • Anonymous

    D.C.’s Occupy protest can only stand 56 people strong. LOL  That is pathetic 

    • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

      Join them you will be number 57. Go out there and protest instead of doing it here on message boards. i did it the other day and I wasn’t even born in America. been there done that but I did it for the American people. and if you say you don’t represent me. Who will?

    • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

      And how many were there last week?

      This is what, week 4? Are you that desperate to disparage this NEW movement that you’re grabbing at such straws?  

    • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

      Oh I get it… you actually believe that there’s NO valid reason to protest how bought-and-paid for politicians sold out the People and allowed the sociopaths and crooks on Wall Street to bring down the economy!!!

      Why didn’t you just say so!!!   

  • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

    Right wing nut Glenn Beck has fallen even deeper into his own pseudo-historical paranoia and is warning his listerners that if you’re rich this Wall Street mob will drag you out into the streets and kill you.

    • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

      I don’t listen to people like Glenn Beck. He is another Human Being getting paid so much for nothing – he is 1% i am 99%

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FSTN5453LFVPU44EFDT4H5G33U Domenico

    The following is the beginning of Teddy Roosevelt’s Address at the Convention of the National Progressive (Bull Moose) Party in 1912. This Address is just as valid today, and it should be read at every “Occupy” site.

    “To you, men and women who have come here to this great city of this great State formally to launch a new party, a party of the people of the whole Union, the National Progressive Party, I extend my hearty greeting. You are taking a bold and a greatly needed step for the service of our beloved country. The old parties are husks, with no real soul within either, divided on artificial lines, boss-ridden and privilege-controlled, each a jumble of incongruous elements, and neither daring to speak out wisely and fearlessly what should be said on the vital issues of the day. This new movement is a movement of truth, sincerity, and wisdom, a movement which proposes to put at the service of all our people the collective power of the people, through their Governmental agencies, alike in the Nation and in the several States. We propose boldly to face the real and great questions of the day, and not skillfully to evade them as do the old parties. We propose to raise aloft a standard to which all honest men can repair, and under which all can fight, no matter what their past political differences, if they are content to face the future and no longer to dwell among the dead issues of the past. We propose to put forth a platform which shall not be a platform of the ordinary and insincere kind, but shall be a contract with the people; and, if the people accept this contract by putting us in power, we shall hold ourselves under honorable obligation to fulfill every promise it contains as loyally as if it were actually enforceable under the penalties of the law.”

    The entire Address is at:

    http://www.ssa.gov/history/trspeech.html

    The Platform is at:

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/presidents/26_t_roosevelt/psources/ps_trprogress.html

    • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

      There was a Second Bill of Right but FDR took that to his grave.
      It should have change America.

    • Fredlinskip

      Where did the party Roosevelt spoke of go?

      • GretchenMo

        I don’t see it among these flea baggers.  There more about passing the buck.

        • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

          Gee, I was sure that was the Tea Party agenda… to set in cement the theft of $14.5 TRILION by our generation and passing the bill on to future generations. Otherwise they’d be in favor of tax increases to make sure WE paid for what WE spent.  

        • Fredlinskip

          At least they have courage enough to try and engender change in a system that has gone so obviously awry.

        • Fredlinskip

          At least they have courage enough to try and engender change in a system that has gone so obviously awry.

        • Fredlinskip

          Oops I accidentally hit a “like” for Gretchmo. Shoot me dead.

          Of course the tea party offers much more realistic alternatives. Glenn Beck’s last speech, ” the anarchists in Italy bought funds in Japan, which proves despotism in Germany is why peanut butter in Australia was eaten by Hillary Clinton”

          Sorry folks -all this trying to be rational with these folks caught up with me.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FSTN5453LFVPU44EFDT4H5G33U Domenico

        The Progressive and Social Democratic Parties were devastated by the two lethal by-products of World War I–bolshevism and fascism.

    • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

      “The old parties are husks, with no real soul within either, divided on artificial lines, boss-ridden and privilege-controlled, each a jumble of incongruous elements, and neither daring to speak out wisely and fearlessly what should be said on the vital issues of the day.”

      Sadly no much has changed these past 100 years.

  • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

     Chinese are worlds expert in Trade and Business. The Chinese has been doing that since the silk trade, Barter trade and Galleon trade with the spaniards. Why do you think there are Chinese all over the World even in a war torn country of Somalia? because expansion of business trade with other nations. America even learned that during the Trans-Atlantic railroad constructions that Chinese workers are more reliable and cheaper than American rail road workers.

    The Chinese are great business partner but you can’t be friend a chinese business partner it will cost your countries demise.

    • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

      As I wrote earlier:
      And where was China BEFORE all that western investment in the 90′s? Where would China be now without all those mandatory technology transfers they demanded of western companies?

      • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

        If the Chinese did not get those technology from America the Chinese government will get them from another country. It is a world market and money talks. The Chinese businessmen were just lucky because they asked for those machines or technology and the American government and the American companies gave it to them.

        China is always making innovative products since the beginning of time. Demanded is another Gossip from the internet!!!!

        Where will America be if China did not lend money to US Government. Tell me?

        • Steve T

          Where will America be if China did not lend money to US Government. Tell me?

          A lot better off

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

        What difference does it make?    Where would western nations be without all their colonies to exploit in the 19th century?   Where would the US be if we hadn’t won California and the southwest in a war?   Where would the US be if our factories weren’t out of range of enemy bombers in WW2?

        Every nation tries to exploit its advantages.  Complaining about them is crying over spilt milk.   The bottom line is that today China is a strong, cash-rich, talent-rich competitor.    I’m an Android programmer.   My job wouldn’t exist without cheap, affordable smartphones and tablets made with Chinese labor and components.   But on the other hand there are plenty of Chinese software engineers who are as good as I am, and much cheaper.    We all just have to do the best we can under the circumstances.   No one is automatically entitled a good job or pleasant lifestyle.
         

        • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

          Thank You

          Your’e chosen because you are Better Than Them.

          That is how the world works nowadays the better you are the longer you last. Simple but true

        • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

          P wrote: ” No one is automatically entitled a good job or pleasant lifestyle.”

          No one is saying that. But it is the job of nation states to protect their people and standards of living from the ravages of a dog eat dog market. Protectionisnm was a central strategy for national development starting with Hamilton’s plan back in 1793.

      • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

        China was already in manufacturing during the 80′s and 90s. stop pushing American technology Topic that you insist without them China will be nothing.

        Funny how did China MADE MIG Airplanes when American was having a Cold War headache during the 80s and technology was not even given to China yet.

        And by the way. The Chinese already sending satellites in space before your beloved technology were given to the chinese. Tell me How did Americans landed on the Moon? Who were the Scientist that contributed so much to the space programs in the 60s in America. I bet it was not American but German technology.

        Before you assume that USA Technology contributed on Chinese economy what country contributed to the American economy?

        • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

          FB wrote: “And by the way. The Chinese already sending satellites in space before your beloved technology were given to the chinese.”

          THAT is your proof China didn’t get massive capital and technology infusions from the west???? They joined the nuclear club in 1966… so they poured resources into the program and finally had 1945 technology. The same with their first satellite. That hardly made them an advanced industrial nation.

            

  • Fredlinskip

    Education is the key.
    There are so many think-tanks, media outlets, etc whose sole mission statement is to distort public opinion towards maintaining status quo that it is a tremendous uphill batt.

    • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

      It is always the Key. The Philippines produced 40,000 Nurses each year majority of them are working in countries all over the world including in the United States. Filipino engineers, dentists, automotive technicians,truck drivers etc etc are exported all over the world.

    • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

      In a “democracy” the only way for small but powerful groups to prevail is to con the rest of us to think along lines that are not in our interests, but theirs.

      • Fredlinskip

           And these groups seemed to have been doing precisely that extraordinarily well. I guess having controlling interests in most media outlets doesn’t hurt any. Nor does undisclosed contributions to political campaigns.
           Well-funded Rove-style “think tanks” whose sole purpose is to “mold public opinion”, facts-be-damned have made major contributions to the sorry state of affairs as well.
         The W tax breaks for the wealthy created as soon as our nation courted a budget surplus- extended under Obama.
         AMAZING!

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

          The W tax breaks for the wealthy created as soon as our nation courted a budget surplus- extended under Obama.
           AMAZING!

          It’s not amazing if you look at who his campaign donors were.   It’s all public information – anyone can go to http://www.opensecrets.org – to see where their favorite politician gets his/her money from.

          This is why I’m amazed at the people in this thread who are urging us to vote for Obama again.   I gave him a perfectly good chance in 2008, and he had control of both houses of Congress and he blew it.
           

          • Fredlinskip

            Obama had an uphill battle, no matter what he did when elected. No matter what he did the economy was not and is not going to turn around on a dime. The policies he did promote MAY have saved our economy into plummeting into deeper recession. He bought us time.
                I agree that he squandered much of his “political capital” mostly over the health care debate. I see Hillary’s hand in this. I also see Hillary’s hand in our foreign policy of perpetuating Wars in Iraq in Afghanistan.
               There’s much I don’t like about what Obama has done. Still I believe alternative could have been worse and credit him for some some hard-fiought accomplishments. He has compromised with the “devil” (GOP) way too many times, which is in part why administation’s policies have been less effective than they could have been. There’s no magic bullet to our nation’s problems.

            Do you honestly think GOP is offerring better solutions?

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

            Do you honestly think GOP is offerring better solutions?

            No, but just as a matter of principle, I believe in only voting for candidates I believe in.   I’m fed up with “lesser of two evils” strategies.    If President Romney and the Tea Party make a big enough mess of things after 2012 maybe the Americans will learn an important lesson.

          • Fredlinskip

            If Romney and T party make a “big enough mess” there may not be much of a country left.
            W made a tremendous “mess of things”- doesn’t seem as if most of America learned that much.

          • nj

            And what “lesson” would that be? What would you expect “Americans” to do in that case?

          • mary elizabeth

            He never had control of both houses of Congress.  Remember the Blue Dogs?  Remember Lieberman?

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

            He never had control of both houses of Congress.  Remember the Blue Dogs?  Remember Lieberman?

            Fine.   His party had control of both Houses.   The Republicans exercised party discipline.  Obama, as President had the responsibility to provide leadership so his people would do the same.   The fact that the Democrats were so poorly disciplined reflects Obama’s poor executive skills.
             

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

          The W tax breaks for the wealthy created as soon as our nation courted a budget surplus- extended under Obama.
           AMAZING!

          It’s not amazing if you look at who his campaign donors were.   It’s all public information – anyone can go to http://www.opensecrets.org – to see where their favorite politician gets his/her money from.

          This is why I’m amazed at the people in this thread who are urging us to vote for Obama again.   I gave him a perfectly good chance in 2008, and he had control of both houses of Congress and he blew it.
           

      • Fredlinskip

           And these groups seemed to have been doing precisely that extraordinarily well. I guess having controlling interests in most media outlets doesn’t hurt any. Nor does undisclosed contributions to political campaigns.
           Well-funded Rove-style “think tanks” whose sole purpose is to “mold public opinion”, facts-be-damned have made major contributions to the sorry state of affairs as well.
         The W tax breaks for the wealthy created as soon as our nation courted a budget surplus- extended under Obama.
         AMAZING!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FSTN5453LFVPU44EFDT4H5G33U Domenico

    It should be possible to gain control of some State Legislatures with a political organization like the Non-Partisan League that won the 1917-18 elections in North Dakota. At that time the farmers of North Dakota were captives of bankers and grain dealers based in Minneapolis and Chicago. Among other things, the League legislators created public grain elevators and the State Bank of North Dakota, which is still quite successful.

    I was pleasantly surprised that one guest made a reference to Tommy Douglas. To see what can be achieved when voters elect legislators who act in the public interest, who cannot be bought by lobbyists, and who actually draft the laws, I recommend “Prairie Giant: The Tommy Douglas Story,” which is available at.
    http://www.amazon.com/Prairie-Giant-Tommy-Douglas-Story/dp/B002CA68HK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1260043624&sr=1-1
    In 1945, the farmers of Saskatchewan elected Douglas and his Social Democratic (CCF) Party in a landslide. One of the first laws was the Farm Protection Act, which protected farmers whose mortgages were almost fully repaid.  In 1962, after the fifth electoral victory, the CCF government created a Provincial health insurance plan. Similar plans were created by other Canadian Provinces when John Diefenbaker, the Conservative Federal Prime Minister, offered matching federal dollars to the Provinces that created similar plans.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_JIQRENX7JNO6TVHZ5C2O5RVHWI Pug pup

    Look, the one that will kill this movement as fast as anything is deciding to use the force of all these people for extreme ideas.  I am a believer in the ideas behind OWS, big time.  I really think that ideas like a Socialist America will cause many of the philosophical and protest supporters to walk away.  I have no problem with rocking this corrupt boat.  I will not play along with ideas that include tossing the US Constitution and going communist.  I personally believe that there are major corruption issues.  Who doesn’t except the people who benefited from the system.  But, throwing out the proverbial baby with the bath water will ruin the whole thing and we’ll end up with the Tea Party running the show. 

    • GretchenMo

      The flea bagger movement is not a big tent, it’s communism or nothing.  No other ideologies need apply.

      • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

        Communism is not so bad as long there is a twist of Capitalism.

      • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

        You comment says more about your own intolerant rabid right ideology than it does about the OWS movement.

        And are you saying there’s NO valid reason to protest how bought-and-paid for politicians sold out the People and allowed the sociopaths and crooks on Wall Street to bring down the economy!!!

        Come on GM… let’s hear your opinion on this.

        • Modavations

          I dare you to make a post without the usual invective.You can’t say that,you can’t think that

          • Anonymous

            dare you to stop posting inane BS.

      • Anonymous

        What’s that smell? The vile vapor of intolerance.

      • Anonymous

        What’s that smell? The vile vapor of intolerance.

      • Fredlinskip

        Why do these young upstarts protest/ The top 1% know what’s best for America. So what that wages have stagnated for 30+ years. The only thing that truly matters is making sure the castles of the top 1% are not disturbed and $ continues to funnel into their coiffures.

      • Fredlinskip

        Why do these young upstarts protest/ The top 1% know what’s best for America. So what that wages have stagnated for 30+ years. The only thing that truly matters is making sure the castles of the top 1% are not disturbed and $ continues to funnel into their coiffures.

      • Fredlinskip

        Why do these young upstarts protest/ The top 1% know what’s best for America. So what that wages have stagnated for 30+ years. The only thing that truly matters is making sure the castles of the top 1% are not disturbed and $ continues to funnel into their coiffures.

      • Anonymous

        Wrong, but not surprising from the core of the right wing in America.  Ignorance and deceit are its stock in trade.

  • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

    The American small Businesses are the only once left to save the American economy. They are the last resort and if Obama’s Job Bill will not pass. America is doom for another great depression.

  • Guest

    It was only the matter of time when the TRUE face of the protesters shines brightly in all the glory. The time is now.
     
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WLSvK2eIoBs

    • GretchenMo

      I’m not surprised that this is at the core of the flea bagger movement.

      • Anonymous

        And I am not surprised that ignorant deceivers like “guest” and “Gretchenmo” are at the core of the right wing in America.

        • Modavations

          I dare you to make a post without calling someone a name.The tolerant Left………

          • Anonymous

             You mean I should link to another website that does the name calling and then refer to “it”?  No thanks.  I would rather be forthright.  Is calling someone “wrong” considered calling them  a name?  Apparently “flea bagger” passes your name calling test, so your point is difficult to comprehend.

          • Guest28

             ”if you only had a brain” nothing would be so difficult to comprehend.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

      Your posting is absurdly disingenuous.

      The Occupy movement is very diverse; it doesn’t have a “true face”.  

      I know plenty of Jews who support it or are participating in it, so it’s a little hard to argue on the basis of one or two YouTube videos that it’s antisemitic.   There are also libertarians in it, and end-the-Fed/gold-standard people in it

      • Guest28

        I might actually agree about not having a true face just yet. Time will tell. However the argument, that a movement is automatically not racist/antisemitic  if it has blacks/jews who support it, is flawed. There are numerous examples to the contrary.

      • Modavations

        Your strings are pulled by the White House,the Unions and of course,Herr Soros.The founder of Acorn was offering to pay demonstrators, on Craigs List

        • Terry Tree Tree

          You know the offer was from the founder of Acorn, how?  People post things on here that they attribute to others!

  • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

    Arrogance cannot save the US Economy. It is a different world now.

    China is gaining and America is losing. You cannot blame the Chinese if they want to work for pennies, you cannot blame them for having US technology. You cannot blame them for lending money to the American government, You cannot blame them for making cheap products  (if it breaks by another one beside they are not so expensive compared to products made in usa).

    Accept the change find your 21st century Niche like selling grilled cheese in south station. (check that kid)

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

      I agree.

      Western countries still have an an overblown sense of entitlement.   Up until a few decades ago they lived off the fat of their empires and their technological and industrial superiority.     Then that started to fail them and Asians showed that they could manufacture things with high quality more cheaply than the west.

      Seeing their pampered lifestyles slipping away, the west tried to prop up their feelings of material wealth with borrowing.   Everyone -  governments, companies, and private individuals -  stared into the abyss of no longer being Number One, and took out a bigger mortgage or raised the debt ceiling to assuage their anxiety.

      But that trick doesn’t work anymore.     And American workers are still more expensive and more pampered than workers in many other countries.   So now they are angry.  Chine is taking “our” jobs.   How dare them?    Those jobs belong to us; it says so right here . . . err . . . somewhere . . . now where did I put that document . . .      

  • Adrian from RI

    I hope to bring up the courage to join the “Occupy Wall Street” protester wearing a T-shirt with the slogan: “Idiots of the World Unite.” These protesters are nothing but the latest generation of Useful Idiots. Will we never learn? Tom, will you ever learn?
     
    I found the following definitions helpful in my understanding of what made the idiots so useful to Lenin:
    *  Socialism is the doctrine that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that his life and his work do not belong to him, but belong to society, that the only justification of his existence is his service to society, and that society may dispose of him in any way it pleases for the sake of whatever it deems to be its own tribal, collective good – For the new Intellectual p43. *  Capitalism is a social system based on the recognition of individual rights, including property rights, in which all property is privately owned – Capitalism: the unknown ideal p19.
     
    Capitalism – however poorly understood – was the original ideal for the America of our Founding Fathers. This understanding made the Industrial Revolution possible with its concomitant creation of wealth, optimism, and prosperity never before seen in the history of mankind. To the extent that we now have given up on that ideal and do no longer understand what capitalism is; to that extent are we now suffering economic stagnation and increasing poverty.
     
    It seems to me that the protesters are only asking for more of what the politicians have been dishing out to us since FDR. I am afraid that President Obama and his army of Czars will only be too happy to keep on dishing out more of the same economic poison because they can count on the fact that the more they harm the economy the bigger their army of Useful Idiots will become. It worked for FDR. Despite the tremendous misery FDR caused he is portrait as a hero in our history books.

    • Fredlinskip

      Idiots of the world united around the mirage of “trickle-down economics. Open your eyes and see where it’s lead us. If you can see beyond your and your apparently well-healed friends noses, the answer should be obvious.  FDR Policies worked fine until they were dismembered beginning with Reagan & ending with “deficits don’t matter” W administrations.
          Idiots are those that believe that any policy which has the  intent to benefit majority of Americans is “socialist” and therefore “wrong for America”.

    • Fredlinskip

      Idiots of the world united around the mirage of “trickle-down economics. Open your eyes and see where it’s lead us. If you can see beyond your and your apparently well-healed friends noses, the answer should be obvious.  FDR Policies worked fine until they were dismembered beginning with Reagan & ending with “deficits don’t matter” W administrations.
          Idiots are those that believe that any policy which has the  intent to benefit majority of Americans is “socialist” and therefore “wrong for America”.

    • Anonymous

      Can you even imagine the horror of those who had to live with the repercussions unleashed by those policies, like not having to live in utter destitution in your old age, making 10 times more in relation to your boss as a 21st century employee (if you have a job), having a public infrastructure that is the envy instead of the pity of the rest of the developed world.  Oh the misery.

  • Dave at Occupy Austin

    All that corporate money sure does buy a lot of disinfo.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

      But if you know it’s disinfo why wouldn’t that be apparent to others?

      There’s an elitist element on both the left and the right that claims that most people are just a bunch sheep, easily led by evil propagandists.     The right says it’s NPR and the New York Times; the left says it’s Fox News and talk radio.

      But in both cases the people making these claims exempt themselves from being dupes.   They can somehow see through the trickery, or they have metal plates in their heads to ward off the propaganda rays, or something.

      What they can’t accept is that America is a large and diverse society with people who have many different value systems and points of view.   Not only points of view about policy itself, but points of view about where and how to become informed, or even whether it’s important to have all the facts.   Voters are free in our system to make their decisions any way they want, including whether a candidate just makes them feel good or projects optimism. 

       

      • Dave at Occupy Austin

        Oh it is apparent to others.  It’s disinfo nevertheless.  Fox so-called news coverage of OWS etc is a classic example.  Grotesque misinterpretations, the most extreme kinds of selective reporting, and other distortions, spread BY minions OF the plutocracy FOR the interests of the plutocracy they so cravenly serve.  

      • Dave at Occupy Austin

        Oh it is apparent to others.  It’s disinfo nevertheless.  Fox so-called news coverage of OWS etc is a classic example.  Grotesque misinterpretations, the most extreme kinds of selective reporting, and other distortions, spread BY minions OF the plutocracy FOR the interests of the plutocracy they so cravenly serve.  

      • Dave at Occupy Austin

        Oh it is apparent to others.  It’s disinfo nevertheless.  Fox so-called news coverage of OWS etc is a classic example.  Grotesque misinterpretations, the most extreme kinds of selective reporting, and other distortions, spread BY minions OF the plutocracy FOR the interests of the plutocracy they so cravenly serve.  

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

          But Fox is the most popular TV news network in the US.    Maybe Fox viewers want to hear a story consistent with their viewpoints.  As I said above,

          Not only points of view about policy itself, but points of view about
          where and how to become informed, or even whether it’s important to have
          all the facts.

          I happen to be a policy wonk -  I like to study economic statistics from the OECD and BLS, etc, and to read the Economist, and to read history, and to “follow the money” of campaign contributions.

          But I do not claim for one second that this makes me in any way superior to people who make their decisions on some other basis, however fact-free or emotional it might be.     Living in a free country includes the freedom to decide how to think, or even whether to think.  Humans are social, irrational animals (look at some of the research in behavioral economics) and we have no obligation to all be policy wonks.

          • Dave at Occupy Austin

            If you cannot discern the QUALITATIVE distinctions between Fox and the other two new outlets you mentioned, that is your loss.  

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

            Fox News and NPR have different audiences who may be seeking different things.   It’s like comparing a sports car and a pickup truck -  you can’t use the same criteria.     But it doesn’t make one one “better” than the other in any universal sense.   You’re trying to apply your personal standards of what is “good” news programming to a network of which you are not the target audience.

          • mary elizabeth

            The truth matters.  As a former Fox viewer gone sour over the gross distortions easily discerned by anyone who seeks a balanced view.
            MSNBC may tout it’s own ideology ad nauseum, but have rarely heard deliberate manipulation of the facts.
            However trite,  the truth is the only way to freedom and natural evolutionary process 

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

            The truth matters.

            No, the truth matters to you.  The emotional narrative might matter more to someone else.   It makes them feel good, it makes a clear alignment of angels and devils, good and evil.   This is what I meant before when I mentioned Piaget -  some people have a hard time wrapping their heads around the idea that different people have different perspectives.

            In my opinion TV news is entertainment -  I don’t expect Fox News to be any more “fair and balanced” than the the Daily Show’s “Best F—ing News Team on the Planet”But again, that’s just me.   Your values are not universal and neither are mine, but only I seem to know that.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

            However trite,  the truth is the only way to freedom and natural evolutionary process

            But who says that’s their goal?     Again, you are applying your standards and expectations to others.   Lots of these people don’t even believe in evolution.  

          • Dave at Occupy Austin

            Actually yes it does make one better as  sources of news, that’s what a qualitative difference is.

            Now, if you want to say Fox is the “better” propaganda outlet, you’ll get no argument from me.  

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

            Actually yes it does make one better as  sources of news, that’s what a qualitative difference is.

            That’s what matters to you.   To other people what matters may be different -  they may want a narrative that’s more consistent with their world-view, or that’s more entertaining, or that’s dramatic in some existential way -  good-vs-evil, that sort of thing.   The bottom line is that Fox is clearly providing something their viewers want, based on their ratings.

          • Anonymous

            2+2=5.  That’s my belief and you can’t tell me I’m wrong. 

            Oh, and the IRS is unconstitutional and I don’t have to pay taxes and you can’t punish me for it.  Hey wait, are those handcuffs?  You can’t do that, this is a free country!  I gotta get petern here to explain it to you.

          • Modavations

            Unfortuneatly,that’s how they teach math in the Public Schools these days.

          • Fredlinskip

            We all have ther right to be as uninformed & mislead as we choose to be.
            But if majority of Americans choose to be misinformed and mislead, does America deserve to be the greatest nation in the world?
            Don’t think so.

            Without an informed electorate their is no democracy.

            Well funded orgs such as those run by Rupert and co have influenced public opinion perhaps beyond repair (IMO).

          • Fredlinskip

            “The truth is useless. You have to understand this right now. You can’t deposit the truth in a bank. You can’t buy groceries withthe truth. You can’t pay rent with the truth. The truth is a useless commodity that will hang around your neck like an albatross all the way to the homeless shelter. And if you think that the million or so people in this country that are really interested in the truth about their government can support people who would tell them the truth, you got another thing coming. Because the million or so people in this country that are truly interested in the truth don’t have any money.”         Jeb Bush [slight edit]

        • Modavations

          The day Msnbc held the Rep.debate,was the only day this year,that they beat out Animal PLanet

          • Dave at Occupy Austin

            One interpretation might be that more liberals have busy lives and aren’t wasting themselves in front of the tube.  

      • Dave at Occupy Austin

        Oh it is apparent to others.  It’s disinfo nevertheless.  Fox so-called news coverage of OWS etc is a classic example.  Grotesque misinterpretations, the most extreme kinds of selective reporting, and other distortions, spread BY minions OF the plutocracy FOR the interests of the plutocracy they so cravenly serve.  

      • Dave at Occupy Austin

        Oh it is apparent to others.  It’s disinfo nevertheless.  Fox so-called news coverage of OWS etc is a classic example.  Grotesque misinterpretations, the most extreme kinds of selective reporting, and other distortions, spread BY minions OF the plutocracy FOR the interests of the plutocracy they so cravenly serve.  

      • Dave at Occupy Austin

        The NYT and NPR coverage has been weak and late, but nowhere near as biased as that of Fox et al.  There is an absolutely qualitative difference.  

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

          But you wouldn’t say that if you were on the right.   One of the steps in Piaget’s Stages of Development is when the baby discovers that his point of view is not the only one.   I think we have a few posters who have not yet passed through that stage.

          • Dave at Occupy Austin

            Didn’t take you long to resort to the ad hom.   

            And, having been around the sun a few times, I’m not the least bit surprised.  

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

            Show me where I’m wrong.   Your statement seems to assume that yours was the only valid point of view, or that more bias in the coverage confers inferiority.   You have a right to that opinion, but I can make a contrary case.    I can make a case that a TV news program is more a form of entertainment than information.   Its success is measured by the number of viewers it attracts and holds, and the advertising revenue it generates, and not by some abstract measure of “accuracy”.

            I read a lot of peer-reviewed scientific journals.   I expect accuracy and verifiability from them, I do not expect that from a TV show.   

          • Dave at Occupy Austin

            Rush Limbaugh is also disinformative.  His claims to being informative are comically hyperbolic, and his apologists insists he’s first and foremost an “entertainer” when he’s proven wrong, as he frequently is, often destructively so.  Should he then be given a pass?  Well that isn’t the issue.  The issue is that he, like Fox, holds so much sway over a large number of listeners that he manipulates the GOP agenda.  No Republican can stand up to him without risk of being voted out of office; that’s how bad it’s gotten.  That is the power of disinformation.  That is why disinformation is big business, because the plutocratic interests have decided that keeping a sizable number of the American people misinformed is essential to their anti-democratic, destructive agenda.  

            Yes it does matter when a self-proclaimed “news” outlet that claims to be “fair and balanced” is neither, and is in fact a megaphone for dishonest and  destructive propaganda.  

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

            Yes it does matter when a self-proclaimed “news” outlet that claims to
            be “fair and balanced” is neither, and is in fact a megaphone for
            dishonest and  destructive propaganda.

            But that’s what Fox’s viewers (and Rush Limbaugh’s) want!   If you don’t like it, then don’t watch it.   I don’t watch TV at all.     Fox’s viewers like the framework and perspective that they get there, just like Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert’s viewers like what they get.    TV is primarily and entertainment medium.

          • Fredlinskip

            Problem is that there are many that don’t understand your last point.
            Some are highly influenced by nonsensical view points that they never bother to substantiate.
            Infotainment, unfortunately, seems to be more powerful than fact these days.

          • Fredlinskip

            Problem is that there are many that don’t understand your last point.
            Some are highly influenced by nonsensical view points that they never bother to substantiate.
            Infotainment, unfortunately, seems to be more powerful than fact these days.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

            Yes it does matter when a self-proclaimed “news” outlet that claims to
            be “fair and balanced” is neither, and is in fact a megaphone for
            dishonest and  destructive propaganda.

            But that’s what Fox’s viewers (and Rush Limbaugh’s) want!   If you don’t like it, then don’t watch it.   I don’t watch TV at all.     Fox’s viewers like the framework and perspective that they get there, just like Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert’s viewers like what they get.    TV is primarily and entertainment medium.

          • Modavations

            Why do you think they invented the Politburo,.The proleteriate is too lame and can’t manage without their benificence(?)

          • Terry Tree Tree

            If it claims to be news, we have a right to expect news, NOT bias, or lame entertainment!  That’s false advertisement, and fraud!

          • Margaret in Omaha

            Piaget’s stage ‘Operational’  children are able to see things from different points of view and to imagine events that occur outside their own lives.

        • nj

          Strikes me as a bit of damming with faint praise. Not as  biased as FOX isn’t really saying much.

          But, yes, NPR has its moments, just not enough of them.

      • Dave at Occupy Austin

        The NYT and NPR coverage has been weak and late, but nowhere near as biased as that of Fox et al.  There is an absolutely qualitative difference.  

      • Dave at Occupy Austin

        The NYT and NPR coverage has been weak and late, but nowhere near as biased as that of Fox et al.  There is an absolutely qualitative difference.  

      • Fredlinskip

        Thought experiment (for those still capable of thought):   Let’s say for the sake of argument that as OWS proclaims, there is a tiny percentage of Americans that possessed a large percentage of America’s resources. These folks were fabulously wealthy and many had become and remain so, in part, by “gaming the system”.Would it beyond the scope of the imagination that some of these folks would spend an inordinate amount of $ trying to influence public opinion, political campaigns, & “regulation” (such as those designed to protect the consumer, the environment, and to keep undisclosed $ OUT of political campaigns).    If the preceding paragraph is not beyond the scope of imagination, one might ask: if the $ is out there and it is being spent in ways that would best protect the interests of the privileged few, where might it seem to be going?? What media outlets, candidates, political parties and think-tanks seem to most espouse views that protect the interests of the few as opposed to the many? Seems to me, $ has gotten the upper hand over truth; and that is reflected in (corporate-owned) media outlets today.

  • Dave at Occupy Austin

    All that corporate money sure does buy a lot of disinfo.

  • Dave at Occupy Austin

    All that corporate money sure does buy a lot of disinfo.

  • Ren

    My experience tells me that the Occupy Wall Street protests will peter out, as did the last anti-war protest movement.  The Occupy movement, I predict, will evolve from being a disorganized, idealistic movement of leftist disaffection to a kind of mute cynical resignation, in the face of daunting capitalist ideology in America, the conservative political machine, and an overwhelming silent majority conservative sentiment all across middle America.  Like the anti-war protests, once the majority of protestors figure out that they do not affect change without radical means–such as was used in the founding and continued imperialism of the U.S.–then many will descend into cynicism.  The movement will then be co-opted by one or both of the major political parties to draw sympathizers.  Both parties are intertwined with large capital interests and will never sever these ties, simply for self-preservation.  They may offer some reformist policies, but leave the structure of patronage in place.  Radical change demands radical means.  Ask the conservative warmongers who use radical change (war, assassination, and torture) to overthrow governments and exploit people to assert global dominance–to the peril of everyone.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

      I agree.    And if there ever is a violent revolution it will come from the right -  they have the guns and military training.

      • Guest

        This statement is too far fetched and truly, shell I say,  disingenuous?
        Recall that two of the most bloody and violent revolutions in human history – the French and the Russian – came from the far left.

        • Ren

          The point is not to take a count on whether leftists or rightists worldwide are the most violent; the point is that in U.S. history and embedded in its imperial designs now and in its past, rightists have led the imperial charge to war since the nation’s inception.  There has yet to be a dominant, non-marginalized left movement in the U.S. (all union and early 1900′s Communist organizing aside).  For the past two centuries, U.S. policy has been dominated by a conservative agenda, one that has led it to the most war-making in modern history.  Both the French and Russian revolutions came to a swift end; not so the current decade long war and previous one (Vietnam).  No need to tally the endless string of U.S. interventions and its own bloody Civil War (itself way longer than the revolutions you mentioned).  No disingenuous remarks here, just sad facts.

          • Guest

             swift 70 years? 40 million dead Russians might want to differ.
             longing for DOMINANT left movement? No, thank you

          • Ren

            I never heard of a 70 year Russian revolution.  The USSR was a state; it wasn’t in a state of revolution.  Talk about deaths, how about the over half a million Americans dead in its Civil War, the only U.S. similarity to the Russian revolution.

          • Anonymous

            Your mixing up Stalin with the Russian Revolution.
            It was Stalin who was responsible for the bulk of the mass murders you are mentioning. Maybe read a little history, it might help to put things into context. Stalin’s insane paranoia and his need to have power had little to do with the ideas of Marx or Lenin for that matter.

          • Guest

            Why don’t you keep your kind suggestions to your kids instead?
            Assuming I don’t know enough about Russian revolts as a result of your flawed so-called logic is simply supercilious.    

          • Fredlinskip

            Funny how War is considered a “conservative” solution. Seems a bit ”rad” to m.e

            Just as Each GOP administration for 40 years has spent and borrowed $ like drunken sailors as well- that doesn’t seem all that “conservative” either.

            I guess rationality never much came into play.

          • Fredlinskip

            Funny how War is considered a “conservative” solution. Seems a bit ”rad” to m.e

            Just as Each GOP administration for 40 years has spent and borrowed $ like drunken sailors as well- that doesn’t seem all that “conservative” either.

            I guess rationality never much came into play.

        • Margaret in Omaha

          Madame Defarge  has recorded your name.
          “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of
          wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it
          was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the
          season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of
          despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were
          all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way- Dickens Tale of Two Cities

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

          Those are different countries and different cultures.   In America the guns and military training are on the right.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Most of those on the right(?) that get national attention, have little or NO military credibility!  ‘W’ was AWOL, drinking, Cheney declared himself too important to serve his country, (could however shotgun a ‘friend’, who just happened to disagree!) , Limbaugh is just a draft-dodger like Clinton, the list goes on!

        • Fredlinskip

          I think what Petern was trying to say Was:
          And if there ever is a violent revolution it will come from the right -  they have the guns and military training.
          That’s not hard to understand.

          Is it??

          • Guest

            Idiotic comment at best. By the same logic left has baseball bats and torches as well as is ignorant  and feels entitled therefore the violence can only come from the left.

        • Anonymous

          Sorry the French Revolution was not a left/right kind of revolt in context to our thinking. It was a popular revolt against the royalist and the landed gentry who exploited the peasantry. It then became a vehicle of revenge and what developed into the Terrors in which even the original revolutionaries were beheaded.

          The Russian Revolution was a leftist or shall we say early Socialist and Communist revolution. You also cannot forget the Red and White war that followed and how Trotsky was ousted and Lenin secured his rein on the power structure.

          By the way the American Revolution was pretty bloody as was the War of 1812.   

    • Four Elements

      Wow. WELL put. I wish I’d said this!

    • Boise Guy

      Yes, well said.

    • Modavations

      Stalin and Mao and Pol Pot and Cucescu(?) and Tito and Honeker and Hoxha and Hitler and Fidel and Hugo.Good god man,the body count on the socialist side of the ledger, is horrific

      • Four Elements

        Yikes! How about the body count on the capitalist side? Sandinistas, anyone? And don’t get me started on the Christian side… We’ll get nowhere dredging up past horrors.

      • Margaret in Omaha

        You are a real funny joke. Try Social Humanitarians not communism and Dictators as you choose to list

      • Margaret in Omaha

        You are a real funny joke. Try Social Humanitarians not communism and Dictators as you choose to list

      • Margaret in Omaha

        You are a real funny joke. Try Social Humanitarians not communism and Dictators as you choose to list

      • Margaret in Omaha

        You are a real funny joke. Try Social Humanitarians not communism and Dictators as you choose to list

      • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

        Off topic again M. CAN YOU READ THE TITLE OF THE SHOW???

        (Once again you neglect to add GW Bush and Cheney who waged an illegal war of aggression based on lies against a nation that did not attack us… and where possibly 1 million civilians were killed. Hey gee… if we do it, it’s OK… right?)  

      • nj

        The Moda-troll is running on three cylinders today.

        • ArnoldWalker

          three more than nj

    • Margaret in Omaha

      I do not remember the anti war protest ” peter out”. Vietnam War ended and family focus needed yet people continued to protest and be arrested at military base’s to today.

      • Ren

        Do you think the large crowds at the start of the Bush wars the same today?  I don’t.  I was involved in many protests.  A few antiwar protestors will always be out, and that’s great.  To call the paltry antiwar activity today an active movement is simply not accurate.

    • Iowa Scribe

      The history of the Civil Rights movement would suggest that you may be mistaken. Those who protested against the Vietnam war were idealistic and disorganized, but they helped end that war. The young people in the OWS movement are far savvier and at least as determined as the antiwar protesters of yesteryear. A changing of the guard is underway. http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/10/12/changing-of-the-guards/

      • Iowa Scribe

        Those two guy in the police van were arrested Sunday night along with 30 other OWS supporters in Des Moines, IA.  Yesterday around noon the Governor’s office gave them a permit to pitch tents on the capitol grounds. There is a great deal of public support for OWS.  Many people have simply had enough of the corporate Snake Oil. Anyway, the economic system is failing. Business as usual is no longer an option.  Too Big Has Failed!

      • Iowa Scribe

        Those two guy in the police van were arrested Sunday night along with 30 other OWS supporters in Des Moines, IA.  Yesterday around noon the Governor’s office gave them a permit to pitch tents on the capitol grounds. There is a great deal of public support for OWS.  Many people have simply had enough of the corporate Snake Oil. Anyway, the economic system is failing. Business as usual is no longer an option.  Too Big Has Failed!

      • Ren

        Do you think that an end to capitalism is the endgame here OR simple reform?  “Helped” is the appropriate verb.  There were historical forces that put an end to the Vietnam war, economic forces were one such factor.  If the aim is an end to capitalism, I don’t think it has run its course yet.  And it will run its course.  If it is simple reform of a system of financial corruption that leaves in place the social and legal structures that build out the capitalist system in the U.S., well maybe.  But is that a change of the guard?  Well, if you see the guard as metaphorically a guardianship of the economic system, rather than a leveler-ship of it, then maybe again.  Even the antiwar protesters of yesteryear failed to end the U.S. appetite for war and the class system that provides motivation and means for it.

        • Fredlinskip

          Don’t believe OWS are trying to “end capitaliism”. 
          Any economic system will eventually be abused by nefarious interests unless there is some oversight by those that actually believe protecting consumer is a good idea.

          Foxes have ruled the hen house for far too long.   Until Americans get over glorifying CEO’s and execs making 1000 times what those actually doing the producing are making, as if they (CEO’s, execs) were some kind of heroes, things aren’t going to change.Consumers drive the economy.Small businesses and start-ups create the lion’s share of new jobs.

             Until Americans get over glorifying CEO’s and execs making 1000 times what those actually doing the producing are making, as if they (CEO’s, execs) were some kind of heroes, things aren’t going to change.

          Consumers drive the economy.
          Small businesses and start-ups create the lion’s share of new jobs.
           

          • Fredlinskip

            (Sorry about repeat)

        • Iowa Scribe

          I think reform is inevitable. We are now living in the War Economy that President
          Eisenhower warned us against so explicitly and so presciently in his
          1961 Farewell Address. Both FDR and Ike understood that the profit motive and well- and wisely-regulated capitalism create wealth and promote progress, while unregulated capitalism is a dangerous, destructive, and deadly force. Unregulated capitalism ultimately becomes a fascist (state in the service of corporations) war machine that spews lies and death from its every orifice. Such a system becomes increasingly self-destructive. I have no doubt that civilization will survive; I’m not so sure our country will, but I am still cautiously hopeful. Again, I think reform is inevitable. Most people no longer trust the economic system, which is clearly failing the majority of citizens. My advice would be: Fasten your seat belt. It’s going to be a rough ride. 

        • Iowa Scribe

          I think reform is inevitable. We are now living in the War Economy that President
          Eisenhower warned us against so explicitly and so presciently in his
          1961 Farewell Address. Both FDR and Ike understood that the profit motive and well- and wisely-regulated capitalism create wealth and promote progress, while unregulated capitalism is a dangerous, destructive, and deadly force. Unregulated capitalism ultimately becomes a fascist (state in the service of corporations) war machine that spews lies and death from its every orifice. Such a system becomes increasingly self-destructive. I have no doubt that civilization will survive; I’m not so sure our country will, but I am still cautiously hopeful. Again, I think reform is inevitable. Most people no longer trust the economic system, which is clearly failing the majority of citizens. My advice would be: Fasten your seat belt. It’s going to be a rough ride. 

      • Ren

        Do you think that an end to capitalism is the endgame here OR simple reform?  “Helped” is the appropriate verb.  There were historical forces that put an end to the Vietnam war, economic forces were one such factor.  If the aim is an end to capitalism, I don’t think it has run its course yet.  And it will run its course.  If it is simple reform of a system of financial corruption that leaves in place the social and legal structures that build out the capitalist system in the U.S., well maybe.  But is that a change of the guard?  Well, if you see the guard as metaphorically a guardianship of the economic system, rather than a leveler-ship of it, then maybe again.  Even the antiwar protesters of yesteryear failed to end the U.S. appetite for war and the class system that provides motivation and means for it.

    • nj

      At lease one thing is wrong in your cheerful analysis, there, Mr. Optimism. For many years, now, polling indicates that the populace supports any number of “liberal” policies, from single-payer healthcare, to steeply progressive taxation, to environmental protection, to developing new (non-fossil) energy sources. 

      There may be significant “conservative sentiment” in the land, but available evidence indicates it is the in the majority.

      • nj

        Dang! Correction: “…indicates that it is not in the majority.”

  • Ren

    What’s hard to weed out with OWS movement is whether its aim is reform or reconstruction of the present economic system?  Idealism aside, the answer to the question will determine its viability, visibility, and oppositional stake.

    • Fredlinskip

      OWS movement is still finding it’s footing; Unlike Tea party- it ACTUALLY IS a grass roots movement.
      Give it some time… And your support if you can see fit.

      … And I don’t believe they are in to “reconstruction”- that would require a much more militant strategy.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2VR6IPHUWT6A57V6GLZ2YLGPUQ petern

      I agree and I think that’s the central question.    As far as I can tell it’s just a loose coalition of anger and frustration.    It’s not clear that they even have the capacity to coalesce around a plan or an agenda.    Big, public temper tantrums don’t enact legislation – sooner or later they need to refine and focus their efforts, or just quit.

  • Fredlinskip

    “The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, and more selfish than bureaucracy. It denounces as public enemies, all who question its methods or throw light upon its crimes…. corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money powers of the country will endeavor to prolong it’s reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed.” – ABRAHAM LINCOLN

    • nj

      Lincoln, that damned socialist!

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Wait, don’t the Republicans claim Lincoln?  Hypocracy?

        • Fredlinskip

          Lincoln was Progressive.

          Question:
          What’s would would you call a contemporary “Lincoln Republican?”
           
          Answer:
           They would be called-    Democrat.

      • Kate

        so silly!

  • david

    This movement and todays show has the foul odor of socialism and a little communism mixed in.
    These kids have bought into the Great OZ and have no clue who is behind the curtain.
    The goal is to destroy capitalism and bring in a form of socialism. This is the goal of those behind the curtain.
    This maybe a turning point for America, will we improve our current system and remain great, or slide into socialism and become like the rest of the messed up world??
    http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/9269_big_soros_money_linked_to_occupy_wall_street

    • Fredlinskip

      Nice “fair and balanced” unbiased source you’ve got there.
      newamerican is published by think tank called American Opinion Publishing (name sort of gives a clue of their intent?) a wholly owned subsidiary of…    JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY.

      • david

        It is somewhat better than the biased leftwing source that some of you dip into!!!!! The Soros progs!

        • Fredlinskip

          Soros has nowhere near the influence as those such as Rupert & co.
          Soros is not the bogeyman source of all ills Fox “news” makes him out to be.

          (why am I trying to reason with the John Birch Society??)

        • Fredlinskip

          Soros has nowhere near the influence as those such as Rupert & co.
          Soros is not the bogeyman source of all ills Fox “news” makes him out to be.

          (why am I trying to reason with the John Birch Society??)

    • nj

      Quick, someone warn the Scandinavian countries of the imminent doom of socialism!

    • Dave in Erie

      Its isnt about converting to “socialism”. Its about the ABUSE of the capitalism. Maybe take a step back to the Dr Suess story, “The Sneetches” to break it down a bit for you. One character sucking all the money out of a system and leaving it high and dry…cause everyone got convinced they needed “Stars on Thars”

  • Oriahjo

    I am not an economist…and this through me for a loop when I first saw it…but it could provide some ideas to this Occupy Wall Street movement.  I would like to see it discussed and debated.  It isn’t right wing or left wing….but really about putting the power of money back to the people.  Check it out: 

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swkq2E8mswI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

    You need to watch the whole thing….interesting historical context of money and power. 

    • Dave in CT

      Yep. Classic. All should see. Hard to think the same again, even if don’t have all the answers.

  • Shogun

    Political street theater of this sort has been an intermittent fact of life in this country for decades. Time and again we’ve heard the same quasi-Marxist tripe, the same tired leftist slogans, and the same desperate insistence that things are/will be different this time  — that is, that the so-called movement will amount to something of consequence in the political and/or public policy spheres. A fearless prediction: Nothing of significance will come of this, the protesters will be begin slinking away in the coming weeks, and the entire thing will degrade into a spectacle involving a few dead-enders besotted with delusions of being revolutionaries …  

    • Fredlinskip

      That’s pretty much how I felt about the T partiers,
      … then again- TP’s are a lot better funded.

    • nj

      And what are you doing to effect positive change?

    • Gregg

      I agree, there’s no there there. It will not translate into a devastating political rout the way the “Tea Party” movement did.

    • Steve T

      You mean much like the Shogun of 1867

  • Caspmct

    jeez, i can’t i can’t hear what this jon guy is saying, you know, because he’s talking over himself.

  • cynycal

    HELLO OWS!  I am a supporter, in theory, but when I logged in to Livestream last night I was embarrassed and humiliated for all of us.  It was like a post-Grateful Dead Concert free-for-all.

    Absolute and utter nonsense without apparent weed.

    “The World is Watching” indeed and while your mouth are yapping on Livestream your heads are caving in.

    Signed,

    Old Lefty X 3 Generations

    • Fredlinskip

      Give em a break, they’re just getting a foothold. Hopefully their message wiil improve over time.
         One thing that seems evident- as disorganized as they are, unlike T Partiers- they truly are “grass roots”.

  • Modavations

    This whole thing is run out of the White House.Obama was put in office by Wall St.Chuck Schumer is the high priest of wall st.Mark Rudd,B.Dorn,B.Ayers,Trumka and the hard communists, have finger prints everywhere.The founder of Acorn was offering to pay people to demonstrate on Craigs List.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Did you get this from dropping LSD, or what?

    • Brett

      “The founder of Acorn was offering to pay people to demonstrate on Craigs List.”

      Mo-D! Wouldn’t they be more effective protesting on the street than on Craig’s List?

  • Modavations

    Russia had 30 Czars,Obama has 45.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=658033938 John Graff

    “In general, contemporary social democrats support:

    A mixed economy consisting of both private enterprise and publicly owned or subsidized programs of education, universal health care, child care and related social services for all citizens.

    An extensive system of social security (although usually not to the extent advocated by socialists), with the stated goal of counteracting the effects of poverty and insuring the citizens against loss of income following illness, unemployment or retirement.

    Government bodies that regulate private enterprise in the interests of workers and consumers by ensuring labor rights (i.e. supporting worker access to trade unions), consumer protections, and fair market competition.

    Environmentalism and environmental protection laws; for example, funding for alternative energy resources and laws designed to combat global warming.

    A value-added/progressive taxation system to fund government expenditures.A secular and a socially progressive policy.

    Immigration and multiculturalism.

    Fair trade over free trade.

    A foreign policy supporting the promotion of democracy, the protection of human rights and where possible, effective multilateralism.

    Advocacy of social justice, human rights, social rights, civil rights and civil liberties.” 

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Many good concepts there!

    • Fredlinskip

      That sounds like a bunch of comi socialist nonsense to me.
      All’s need done is to keep funneling $ to those that need it least and it will all be fine.

      Get with the program!

    • Kate

      Understanding that the individual yields themselves in the family unit and becomes cohesive in a small community which connects into a larger unit of interacting small communities and branches out into counties, states, nations, countries etc…The idea that “big brother” replaces “mom and pop” is the fantasy socialist dream which is destroying the family – most obviously in the destruction of the Black Family by the Welfare Plantation; the black American citizen being strong and resiliant after the slavery Laws were abolished, but the divisive tactics of the lies of “multicultualism” divided us with class envy from the socialist programs initiated in the ‘Great Society”.  Wake up!!!   Investigate and study – don’t just read this and disregard.  I tell you, if our school systems shut down and we all had to go find the info in a library, we would be amazed at how we have been duped!

      • Fredlinskip

        Actually Kate, I believe if you spent a little time in the library, you’d discover you’re the one who had been duped.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=658033938 John Graff

        “Children in the United States experience greater inequality of economic well-being than children in most other developed nations. One recent study reported that the gap between the cash incomes of children’s families in the lowest and highest 10 percent was larger in the United States than in twelve other developed countries. The low ranking of the United States is attributable both to the higher share of births to single parents and to the higher share of divorce. But even when the comparison is restricted to children living in single-parent families, children in the United States have the lowest relative standard of living. For example, one comparative study reported that 60 percent of single-mother households in the United States were poor, as against 45 percent in Canada, 40 percent in the United Kingdom, 25 percent in France, 20 percent in Italy, and 5 percent in Sweden. The differences are caused by variations both in the income earned by single parents and in the generosity of government cash transfers. In other words, having a high share of single-parent families predisposes the United States to have a higher poverty rate, but other countries compensate better for single parenthood through a combination of social welfare spending and supports for employed parents, such as child care.” 
        http://futureofchildren.org/publications/journals/article/index.xml?journalid=37&articleid=105&sectionid=677 

    • Dave in Erie

      well, gee..it all looks good on “paper”…sounds like a perfect system…but what leaders ACTUALLY follow this plan to a tee? It seems theres too many polititians that promise the utopia, but get turned off course by their own greed and/or other influences. Are the “leaders” too afraid of speaking their own mind, afraid of the publics reaction based solely on the media’s spin, afraid of just getting shot by the opposing party?? Give me list of polititians that follow every line of the above, and I will vote for every single one of them.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=658033938 John Graff

        “Fewer debates over economics would be needed if the world spent more time examining what actually works and what does not. Almost everywhere, debate has raged about how to combine market forces and social security. The left calls for an expansion of social protection; the right says that doing so would undermine economic growth and widen fiscal deficits.But the debate can be moved forward by examining the successful economies of Denmark, Finland, Iceland, the Netherlands, Norway, and Sweden. While no regional experience is directly transferable, the Nordic countries have successfully combined social welfare with high income levels, solid economic growth, and macroeconomic stability. They have also achieved high standards of governance.”
        http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/sachs110/English

        See also The Nordic model:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model

  • Modavations

    On the last day of the program Sun Power(another phoney Green co.)was alotted 1.2 bill.It was pushed by G.Miller(ca.)and surprise, surprise,his brother was the lobbyist.A Pelosi family member, got 735 mill.for another green co..This is Crony Capitalism.This is the most corrupt regime in my life.They’re setting up a war with friggin Iran!!!

    • Gregg

      Nobody here has heard about that one yet perfessor. I did a search on NPR.org, zip.

    • ModavationFactCheck

      Here are some non-Fox-News takes on the same stories.

      http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_18965124

      http://articles.sfgate.com/2011-09-30/news/30227881_1

      Oh, facts, why must you complicate Modavations narrative so?

      • Gregg

        ulTR… er… ModavationFactCheck, Whats with the Fox obsession? Your goofy link cited “Drudge” and “The Weekly Standard” not Fox.

        Anywho, I guess I’m glad you’re concerned.

        • ModavationFactCheck

          … Fox News being synecdoche for “Conservative media.” Also, goofy link? It’s the San Francisco Chronicle. Are they a particularly “goofy” outfit? And are you really assuming I’m ulTRAX? Maybe the two of you have a flame war going on in some other thread, but please leave me and my incredibly clever handle out of it.

          • ArnoldWalker

            apparently you need to be factchecked; unfortunately i don’t read you

          • Terry Tree Tree

            So we see!

          • Gregg

            First things first:
            “Goofy” in the sense it doesn’t prove your point… whatever it is. If you think about it, this “green energy” fantasy really is a big deal we are paying dearly for. That is a completely separate issue from the environment, tree-hugging and a harmonious sustainable lifestyle. A lie is a lie, money down a rat hole is gone. That’s all.

            My apologies… if you are not ulTRAX (I notice you got the cases right, hmmm), I’ll take your word for it but I see you know who he is. I’m pretty sure he changes his handle and praises himself sometimes. He keeps a file of my comments. Creepy. I digress, props are due. Your “incredibly clever handle(s)” started showing up a little while back and they are that. All due respect… sort of.

          • Hidan

            Disingenuous apology.

          • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

            Just caught this looking for something else.

            No I wasn’t MFC. The nic would be more clever if Moda ever had any facts to check.  

    • Gregg

      Aren’t they building in Mexico… on our dime? Their loan was approved hours before the deadline a week or two ago. It stinks.

    • Alan in NH

      It may be as you say, crony capitalism, but hardly the worst regime in recent history. I recall much larger sums involved in Halibertin (?) scams, scams which came to fruition during the last administration.

      • Gregg

        At a minimum, if you are going to use the lame tactic of excusing one bad behavior with another example of bad behavior, bring something with teeth. 

        • Alan in NH

          I’m not excusing either. I’m merely saying, if we’re casting accusations around, let’s cast them equitably. Crony capitalism was not either invented by or perfected by this administration. It is an unfortunate factor in our current method of governing at all levels, federal,state and I see it at my local level. The scale changes but the methodology is the same.

          • Gregg

            Fine, then let’s condemn it when it’s in our face.

      • ArnoldWalker

        if you can’t spell it, and you can’t, i’m going to have a problem believing your recollections …

  • Modavations

    Every time you hear Fed.,or bankers,or Bilderburgers, you’re hearing “lefty code words”, for Jew

    • Terry Tree Tree

      GREEDY rich are not all Jewish, but, GREEDY rich are ALL GREEDY rich!  Your semitic slurs are un-needed.

    • Alan in NH

      Every time?…unsubstantiated opinion.

      • ArnoldWalker

        thanks for substantiating

    • Dave in Erie

      This IS NOT about racism.

      • Dave in Erie

        AND GROW UP while you are at it.

    • Fredlinskip

      Showing your true colors I see.

         What do you suggest..         concentration camps?

  • Carolyn516

    It seems to me that it is time for Occupy Wall Street to focus their attention on one actionable galvinizing idea, in order to make some kind of meaningful change. 
    I believe they should start with a rally to MAKE WALL STREET ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE FINANCIAL CRISIS.Many of the societal ills that are the base of Occupy Wall Street were created by the financial meltdown brought on by the actions of the banks and financial industry. If you read the books: To Big to Fail by Andrew Sorkin or The Big Short, by Michael Lewis, or saw the Academy Award winning documentary, ”Inside Job”, by Charles Ferguson, (or listened to NPR,) you know that, to date, THERE HAVE BEEN NO PROSECUTIONS BY THE GOVERNMENT OF THOSE PARTIES RESPONSIBLE FOR THE US ECONOMY MELTDOWN OF 2008.Let’s start with that one actionable idea.

  • your listener

    Dear OnPoint host, am I allowed to use profanity here with asterix marks without spelling out the whole word?  Or anyone knows?  

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Don’t you have enough vocabulary and imagination to express yourself?

      • ArnoldWalker

        you really effed up that mother effer

        • your listener

          humm… why do you sound so familiar?

      • your listener

        I usually get by pretty well w/o using them, in public, but at times events happens in our life, it feels good to use them.  xD

    • Dave in Erie

      Give it a go! The first amendment isnt dead …yet.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=658033938 John Graff

    Perhaps we must begin by reforming of our campaign finance and lobbying laws to reduce the corrupting influence of money on politics? 
      

    • your listener

      Agree!  

      1) Up to certain level official campaign finance should be public funded.

      2) Change Corporation Law, corporates should never be granted with right of a citizen, this gives corporations green light to abuse their right and power.  

      • Fredlinskip

        Agree whole-heartedlywith both points.
        Now all we have to do is wait 5? 10? years until a there’s a Supreme court vacancy and pray there’s a Dem Prez in office at the time.

      • ArnoldWalker

        then we shouldn’t make any laws that impact corporations…

  • Plantiful

    Capitalism is the best system to run a market, and capitalism is the worst system to run a government.

    All corporations (unions, special interests) must be removed from Congress and barred from ALL campaign influence.  Corporations are supposed to be producing and selling products.  They are not persons, and they deserve only to be regulated by a functioning and knowledgeable government.  If a corporate owner / board member wants to affect a political election, do it at the polls like the rest of us do.

    • Dave in Erie

      “ If a corporate owner / board member wants to affect a political election, do it at the polls like the rest of us do.”

      Two Amens to that Brother!

      • ArnoldWalker

        let’s outlaw all special interest groups; unions, environmentalists, the disabled ….

        • Brett

          Yes, let’s outlaw the special interests of the disabled with their bloated sense of entitlement that they live in an inclusive society with equal access! Hey, if you can’t get your wheelchair on the bus, or in to a restaurant bathroom all by yourself, then you don’t deserve to be out in public! Why can’t they just stay cloistered away with their own kind like in the good old days?

    • ArnoldWalker

      no taxation without representation, are you new here?

      • Anonymous

        I believe Plantiful is expressing the will of the founding fathers about corporate entities.  Ask Brandstad, he’s read the Federalist Papers.

  • Hidan

    CNN Anchor Mocks ‘Occupy Wall Street’ – Cenk Responds to Erin Burnett..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K4yWAOz4g0

    • ArnoldWalker

      cenk, what’s a cenk; erin i get, smart and attractive; cenk appears to believe “um” is a word, cuz he uses it a ton; unwatchable

      • Hidan

        So you didn’t watch? nice making a comment on something you didn’t see. Typical con..

        • ArnoldWalker

          look at you, know nothing about nothing, and commet a lot; not my bad

          • Hidan

            blah blah blah,

            I know there’s blacks in the OWS(something Kate didnt) as well as Jews (something you didn’t)

            clearly you should stop Projecting.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=658033938 John Graff

    ‎”There hasn’t been a time when there has been such anger and frustration directed at our nation’s capitol. There hasn’t been a moment when the opportunity to organize to build a movement among the states has been as real. The beauty of a convention is that it would provide a forum of possibility for conservative Tea Party types who might want an amendment calling for a balanced budget, or a line-item veto for the president as well as progressives who would like to amend the constitution to make it possible to enact meaningful campaign finance reform. The only requirement is that two-thirds of the states apply, and then begins the drama of an unscripted national convention to debate questions of fundamental law. It would be a grand circus of democracy at its best.” http://www.law.harvard.edu/news/2010/04/12_lessig.html 

  • your listener

    Oh… yeah, many states make gamble illegal, but Wall St. is worldwide casino.  Basically it’s telling us, personal bankruptcy gets more punishment than banks/corporations bankruptcy when they gamble??  Look how fast they recovered, and profited??  This smell very fishy to me, either they forge the accounting books, or they stole from somewhere?  Where’s the logic and sense?  Oh… I forgot, “greed” is the both their running engine and fuel….

    • ArnoldWalker

      you sir are no forensic accountant; can you even read a balance sheet?

      • your listener

        You learn well how to attack other’s views, have you learned how to defend your views? 

  • your listener

    Aside from the corruption of laws and business practice, we the people need to take responsibilities for contributing to such.  People work for big companies, at certain positions level, like managers/directors/executives, keep changing their electronic gadgets so often when their existing gadgets and technology capability work perfectly, this makes my stomach sick, really really sick!!!

    • ArnoldWalker

      how about holding people accountable for borrowing money and then wanting a reset; that makes me sick; i recycle my used electronic gadgets

      • Hidan

        Like BOA, Citi, AIG, Goldman? Borrowing money at .025 % as well as having their toxic assets bought by the feds not just onces but a few times now.

        • ArnoldWalker

          you’re a decimal point off and many cards short of a full deck; the Fed has no toxic assets on its balance sheet; you can’t even make up stuff that makes sense; the feds, man; you don’t know how anything works; seriously, you must be the highest ranking member of the cult of ignorance

          • Hidan

            Nice,

            Got Arnold starting with the ad homs, Onpoint take notice.

          • Guest

            right on point Arnold. Thanks. HID-ANd run is certifiable ignoramus and it is a public knowledge, always has been, even when he called himself michael.  That’s what OnPoint should really take a notice of.

      • your listener

        Sure, I firmly agree on personal responsibility, but this is not an issue of blame one or nothing.  It takes 2 to make things happen.  The upper hand knows how to make the most profit out of human nature and greed (which is promoted these days, most people are probably too busy to think it’s wrong), they have the tools, money and power to come up with stats, numbers, and set the fishing nets waiting for suckers.  There’s the trapper, then there’s the trapped.

        Recycle also takes energy, the more we consume, the more energy needed for producing and recycling, recycle is only the secondary backup plan for over consumptions, it’s not a progressive solution for sustainability.  Best thing is to conserve, be frugal, don’t buy anything when we know we don’t need it.  

      • Anonymous

        You mean like corporations intentionally underfunding their pension system then seeking bankruptcy protection and avoiding it altogether, while its execs ride off into the sunset with their golden parachute?  Or does your rule only apply to poor folks?

  • Sutton MA

    The government wants the citizenry completely distracted and uneducated.  Watch Out! you totalitarian regime.  The end game has got your number.

  • Feored

    Funny that nobody seems to get the fact that none of the emerging democracies around the world even considers the US-system with majority-vote all the way through, but rather adopt representative systems.
    Half of Americans don’t vote – maybe they would if there was a choice, but the way the system works, any vote that doesn’t go to Democrats or Republicans is LOST. So why even bother?

    • Gregg

      You’re either part of the process or you’re not.

      • Hidan

        Glad you support the OWS since there clearly by protesting trying to be part of the process.

        • Gregg

          I support their right to show the world their idiocy. Absolutely. It’s cleared a lot of things up for a lot of people. I thank them.

          • Hidan

            Glad you support the Tparty showing the world their idiocy.

            “keep government out of my medicare” was classic

          • Hidan

            ekk “off”

          • Anonymous

            I agree and have repeatedly stated that an under appreciated benefit of free speech is the outing of uninformed fools and charlatans, which is why I will always defend your and Brandstad’s, Modavation’s, etc. right to speak your mind here.  Keep it coming.

  • Bnovus

    two words—TERM LIMITS

  • Ben

    This clash of ideals between the right and left is revealing the ultimate weakness of a Federalist System. You can’t make everybody have it the same way. Maybe it’s time we go back to the days of our Constitution and revisit the idea of states rights? Lets face it Texas is never going to be California and the other 48 states fall somewhere in line with one of those two and a few between. So why do we all spend so much time in Washington playing tug of war every few years? The federal government can not give us all what we want but our states can. We have this beautiful 50 state system and we don’t even use it. That’s the real reason we are in this situation. I hardly pay any state income tax and I pay mostly federal. It should be the other way around.

    • Kate

      Great points.  Further data:

      http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/

      • Ben

        We are so partisan these days even this becomes a partisan issue. Although it would benefit every party equally to have a state government totally representative of that party.

      • Ben

        We are so partisan these days even this becomes a partisan issue. Although it would benefit every party equally to have a state government totally representative of that party.

    • Gregg

      I’m in.

    • Matteasmom107

      I’m a bleeding heart liberal and I have been saying this for a looooong time! As long as some basic constitutional protections of civil rights and liberties are in place, I have no problem with going back to a more confederated system. Obviously the system we have now isn’t working, so what do we have to lose?

  • Zachfw8

    To think that this movement doesn’t have a message to send is clearly a sign of ignorance. I love how the media keeps trying to play occupy wall street as a trivial movement that will just fizzle out because there is no “clear message, or clear leader.” I think it couldn’t be any more clear that all these people have the time to gather in these growing numbers. Its easy to say “get a job,” when you HAVE a job. You cant sustain your self with a coffee house job in this economy, plain and simple,. Its good that people are realizing that WE are the working bees. We run the country. And sometimes the government needs a wake up call.

    • ArnoldWalker

      apparently flea-baggers are anti-semites; and communists or disaffected anarchists; that’s the message

  • Kate

    Honestly, I haven’t seen one black american photographed in these scenes.  Also, the real tent cities, Obamavilles have been growing for awhile all over America…where the hell has the “media” been on that?  Nowhere, because the media today are pretty villainous and vain. 
    The anger and frustration exemplified by the million plus with the intial tea party protest in DC was disregarded and treated with contempt by the dinosaur media. Hypocrites that the media is…now you want the 50% of actual taxpayers to listen to the hype about these “well-fed” communist and socialist puppets of our current administration taking handouts and fornicating in city limits gripe about an unclear agenda and subsidized efforts of the Obama Campaign committee?
    Not on your life. 

    • ArnoldWalker

      This astroturf is Acorn-organized with lots of blacks calling out the jews, pathetic

      • Hidan

        Dam blacks getting out to vote in the south. Someone should make a law preventing them right? …………..oh wait wasn’t that Jim Crow?

        • ArnoldWalker

          i’m all for blacks voting, jews too. but if flea-baggers is just some big excuse for blacks to blame jews for their problems, then all should be against them; the evidence suggests that black flea-baggers are motivated by anti-semitism; that’s the message

          • Hidan

            Kate just stated that there were no blacks in the OWS. If so than your claiming any blacks in the OWS are now anti-semitcs?……..wait what?

            also what evidences?

          • ArnoldWalker

            evidences? spreche die english meine frau?

          • Hidan

            Nice one.

            like getting owned?

          • Hidan

            http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/new_york/jews_occupation

            Wall Street demonstrations feature Shabbat potluck, possible Yom Kippur service and growing number of Jewish groups.

            What say you?

          • Hidan

            “Last Friday night, the sounds of protest in the financial district
            mingled with those of Shabbat prayers when 25 demonstrators gathered to
            put a Jewish stamp on their solidarity with the month-old “Occupy Wall
            Street” demonstration against corporate greed and bank bailouts.

            Occupy Wall Street is increasingly drawing a Jewish presence, from
            white-collar professionals to a latter-day Emma Goldman to the old-line
            labor organizations. Their diversity reflects the eclectic nature of the
            protest itself, which has brought veteran demonstrators, neo-hippies
            and jobless young people together in lower Manhattan’s Zuccotti Park.”

            Do you take back what you said about blacks now? or are these jews self-hating?

          • Anonymous

            wow, are you serious with this stuff?
            I’m sorry but you have crossed the line of free speech in my view.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            You personally, objectively, interviewed each and every one, before breaking your neck jumping to that conclusion?

      • Fredlinskip

        Didn’t realize you and your KKK brethren were still so active.
        And still spreading peace and love I see.

        Learn something new every day.

    • Gregg

      That Kate, is a brilliant observation. Sometimes the “like” button is not enough.

      • Fredlinskip

        Get her phone number there Gregg- maybe you can take after those comi proteaters and eat & fornicate somewhere.

        • Gregg

          You’re weird.

    • Hidan

      Blacks, unlike the racist teabaggers with a few tokens.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qa1EXdJ_Hg

    • Hidan

      More,
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drnZlRxOpCg&feature=relmfu

      Teaparty express Mark Williams (also been on both Onpoint and NPR)

      Tea Party Express’ Racist Letter

      Quote

      “The sign is the brownest thing on  the entire block”

    • Fredlinskip

      And there were a whole lot of black particpants in T Party?

      “Well-fed” comi fornicators, subsidized by Obama campaign, Aye?

      You’re a “fair and balanced” Glenn Beck fan, I see.

      Come on out and eat and fornicate- it’s for a good cause.

    • your listener

      Did you watch the above video of Occupy LA?

    • ArnoldWalker
    • nj

      Terminally clueless.

  • ArnoldWalker

    I don’t think these flea-baggers will last much longer.  It’s hard to beat a drum and dance when it’s cold outside!  Protest that!

    • Hidan

      fleabag the teabaggers,

      Eric Ericson 53%

      http://www.youtube.com/user/TheYoungTurks#p/u/13/QfEtywGAR0o

    • ScammerSpammer

      You seem to constantly disagree with most of the comments on this site.

      Which leads me to believe:

      You are getting paid to create subterfuge under different monikers.

      From the style of your writing to the tone of your opinion, you appear to be one of a couple of hoaxers using multiple names who are residing at On Point’s comment site.

      Only a psychopathic infiltrator, agent provocateur or someone earning an income would stay where they are not wanted. 

      • ArnoldWalker

        oh sorry, didn’t know this was some commie echochamber; actually there are really only two people on this board assuming many different monikers; you playing the ignorant libbie and me the voice of reason, you the hoax and me the reality; i’m guessing you’re a psychopathic provocateur, good day

        • Anonymous

          Well at least he or she is not a nasty little troll.

        • Doubting Thomas

          Disagreement with your other posts aside, that was actually really funny :D

      • Hidan

        See now he’s getting mad so out comes the ad homs, personal attack etc, etc. He loss and he’s pissed.

        Typical. .

        • Walkerless

          Well, when someone challenges your source of income…
          your plan of attack… your reason for being…  your ego…

          You just might want to protest ‘too loudly’ too.

          Like M or G or n…, I’m sure we haven’t heard the last.

          Seems like they need to spend some time to re-group or get re-programmed.

          Their methods are really not that sophisticated. It’s all about timing and tone.  It’s pretty hard to fake.

          You have to be astute and watch them.

          • Doubting Thomas

            Yeah and Wall Street’s methods aren’t all that sophisticated either. It took me all of FIVE MINUTES to deduce why most of their probability models failed, and only that long because I couldn’t believe they were making such a basic flawed assumption.

            Really? Believing that because electromagnetic energy in a vacuum of external influences disperses in a standard pattern, default, money moving about and much anything else must work the same? It lends credence to the idea that the worst of my school, and the greediest, went to Wall Street, not the best. Pathetic.

            Just as pathetic as allowing them to influence our political structure the way they did, do and are continuing to do. I’m not shooting for socialism of any kind. That’s why the bailouts drew my ire the way they did; they are socialism of the worst kind. The kind that goes to people too stupid and too lazy to go out and do real work. The same “geniuses” who used functions from my field, and didn’t bother to take the time to look up how they worked.

            Taxation in all likelihood has some impact, so a complete rewrite would be great. But the real reason big finance has made so damn much money recently, is because they have privatized profits, and socialized losses. Andrew Jackson, our seventh president, had the EXACT SAME PROBLEM we had in 2008. Except unlike Obama, he had the balls to deal with it properly:

            Gentlemen! I too have been a close observer of the doings of the Bank of the United States. I have had men watching you for a long time, and am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I have determined to rout you out, and by the Eternal, (bringing his fist down on the table) I will rout you out!From the original minutes of the Philadelphia committee of citizens sent to meet with President Jackson, February 1834, according to Stan V. Henkels, Andrew Jackson and the Bank of the United States, 1928; online

      • Gregg

        I am amazed at how often that accusation is leveled. I have been accused of being paid many times. So, devil’s advocate: So what if we were? How much does the truth cost?

        And what’s this business about being wanted? On Point says they want open, honest, passionate debate and it seems to be true since the censorship has stopped.

        A lot of folks here seem to want their own private groupthink love fest. Any disagrement is met with, ” you’re a paid hack and have been brainwashed by Fox and Rush. You’re probably racist too.”

        Deep.

        • Brett

          I don’t think you need worry about that pigeonhole…I doubt anyone would take seriously the idea that someone would pay for your comments! 

        • OwnAdmission

          People whose only purpose is to provoke are part of, or have a psychological agenda, and are not advocating an ‘open, honest, passionate’ debate.

          By your own admission above, you have been accused of it many times before.

          You Gregg are a provoker and maintain a psychological agenda.

          Since you only contribute provocation, you do not belong here.

          And, I think I speak for everyone, are no longer welcomed at this site. 

          Please take your behavior somewhere else.

          • Guest

             I’d rather have you gone though. So much for speaking “for everyone”. What a pretentious and arrogant first and the only post. Get lost.

          • DownOnTheRange

            To close to home, eh?

  • grass smile

    You’re the American Hope, the American Dreams in the 21st century, and the American Bravery. Godspeed!

  • Hidan

    So Mark Williams was the spokenman of the tea party express and the one openly claiming there were not a single racist in the teaparty. Than wrote this.

    Dear Mr. Lincoln

    We Coloreds have taken a vote and decided that we don’t cotton to
    that whole emancipation thing. Freedom means having to work for real,
    think for ourselves, and take consequences along with the rewards. That
    is just far too much to ask of us Colored People and we demand that it
    stop!…
    The tea party position to “end the bailouts” for example is just
    silly. Bailouts are just big money welfare and isn’t that what we want
    all Coloreds to strive for? What kind of racist would want to end big
    money welfare? What they need to do is start handing the bail outs
    directly to us coloreds! Of course, the National Association for the
    Advancement of Colored People is the only responsible party that should
    be granted the right to disperse the funds.
    And the ridiculous idea of “reduce[ing] the size and intrusiveness of
    government.” What kind of massa would ever not want to control my life?
    As Coloreds we must have somebody care for us otherwise we would be on
    our own, have to think for ourselves and make decisions!
    Perhaps the most racist point of all in the tea parties is their
    demand that government “stop raising our taxes.” That is outrageous! How
    will we coloreds ever get a wide screen TV in every room if
    non-coloreds get to keep what they earn? Totally racist!…

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Looks EXTREMELY RACIST and dumb to me!!
          I guess he is too racist to know what a racist is!
      Certainly destroys his ability to comment on racism!

  • your listener

    I am one of the 99% supporters, will make my sign tomorrow, going!

  • Dave in Erie

    Relax everyone for a moment…just found this Youtube link..
    Take a listen! Great song!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej7Iur2zpvY

    • Dave in Erie

      Its a folk song about the Occupation…the 99%.

      • Hidan

        nice

    • Dave in Erie

      Its a folk song about the Occupation…the 99%.

    • your listener

      Thanks!!

    • MoniqueDC

      Loved… shared it out widely, Dave.  TX

  • Hidan

    Koch Brothers Exposed By Letter On Social Security
    http://www.youtube.com/user/TheYoungTurks#p/u/41/esCKpGq02Ls

    The Young Turks host Cenk
    Uygur explains how the Koch Brothers wrote a letter to Friedrich Hayek
    urging him to use Social Security.

  • Hidan

    Koch Brothers Exposed By Letter On Social Security
    http://www.youtube.com/user/TheYoungTurks#p/u/41/esCKpGq02Ls

    The Young Turks host Cenk
    Uygur explains how the Koch Brothers wrote a letter to Friedrich Hayek
    urging him to use Social Security.

  • Hidan

    Charles Koch to Friedrich Hayek: Use Social Security
    http://www.thenation.com/article/163672/charles-koch-friedrich-hayek-use-social-security

    Charles Koch, billionaire patron of free-market libertarianism,
    privately championed the benefits of Social Security to Friedrich Hayek,
    the leading laissez-faire economist of the twentieth century. Koch even
    sent Hayek a government pamphlet to help him take advantage of
    America’s federal retirement insurance and healthcare programs.

    • Doubting Thomas

      :P That’s because the Kochs have belief in Libertarianism, but are actually decent guys. My feeling is that they just don’t understand that there are far too many people who aren’t honest and will lie, cheat and steal their way to the top. 2000-2008 proved that, and they were so good at it that they bought off anyone who stood in their way.

      • NaiveThomas

        Decent guys?

        Are they paying you to say that.

        Do an internet search, “Koch brothers Iran”.

        Do you actually know anything about them.

        These are the guys who financed the gov. who outlawed collective bargaining rights in Wisconsin.

        Unions are okay for professional athletes, but no public employees?

        Nice guys, huh?  They are part of the elite problem.

        • Doubting Thomas

          Lol that’s sarcasm, friend.

          I know quite a bit about them.

  • Dave in CT

    Socialist Roots of Naziism

    A.F. Hayek, Nobel Laureate

    http://lamar.colostate.edu/~grjan/hayeknaziism.html

    • Anonymous

      Interesting theory, but Hayek is not one with whom I would use to develop a theory about the nazis party. Also Mein Kampf kind of takes the wind out of his sails, don’t you think.

    • Nazithisagain

      Gee, I think this is the third time you’ve posted this link over the last couple of weeks.
      We get it. You love Hayek, Mies, Libertarianism, and the Rule of Law.
      Oh, and of course, Ron Paul.
      We get it.
      Next.

    • nj

      How long before Scandinavia goes Nazi on us? Stay tuned…

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=637990926 Evan B. Brandes

    Having my heart in the Occupy Wall Street protests I wish someone would open up Melvin Urosky’s biography on Justice Louis Brandeis. Louis Brandeis advocated against Bigness in both corporations and government. THis was why he was against many of the New Deal programs expanding the governments role, as well as against the Monopolies. Justice Brandeis had it right in the early 20th Century and is correct today. His views are just as valid and even more so today. It is neither liberal nor conservative but against Bigness. Bigness in our government, corporations, use of resources, etc… Please read up on Justice Brandeis.

    • nj

      “We can either have democracy in this country or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can’t have both.”

      —Louis Brandeis

      • Cime

        And great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few is third world! What we don’t want!!

      • TFRX

        Money is like manure–it doesn’t do hardly any good if it’s all in one place.

        –Harry Truman

  • RTingIt

    Fascinating how RT, for some time now, has carried the most incisive reporting and is consistently interviewing the most dedicated researchers and credible journalistic sources our country has to offer.

    Ironic how RT is bringing the American truth home.

    Take note NPR and America Main Stream Media.

    (I bet the vagabond denizens of this site think RT is part of some socialist/commie plot. Second thought, maybe it is… maybe the elite there just want to speed up our evolution to take over the elite here.)

    Wink. Wink.

    • MoniqueDC

      RT = ?

  • Anonymous

    IF!!!!!!!!!!!! Jon Phenix speaks more for this movement than he does not – if his ideas of the imperative of transformation into an explicitly political force, pursuit of undiluted socialism, and, shockingly to me, imposing explicit majoritarianism on the movement for the purpose of achieving these transformations are on their way to determining what this movement is – then this is not the thing that I thought it was, and my strong support for it will come to a swift end.  I suspect that course will also marginalize and essentially destroy the movement as a movement of any unique character or significant size on the American scene(rather than a fringe political party, which already has representation in the Socialist Party of America and other socialist political organizations), but that would of course remain to be seen, and it’s a chance the #OWS is certainly entitled to take if that is its (whether majoritarian or consensus) choice.  All I can say is that I would be parting ways from it if that occurred.

    • Fredlinskip

      The movement is still gaining it’s footing.
      I should hope that it’s messaging will improve in the future.
      Don’t give up on it yet.

  • Busted

    I believe Modavations and ArnoldWalker are one in the same.

    One is just angrier and probably more intoxicated than the other.

    I also believe that GretchenMo and notafeminista are one and the same.

    Notice how they both don’t partake in the evening hours.

    Look back.  Dissect their comments, their tone and their timing.

    I think you’ll notice the inherent trends.

    Let’s get rid of these trolls.

  • CT

    I was bewildered by the lack of focus of the protesters who spoke.  I thought the protest was against the unindicted criminals on Wall Street who robbed their countrymen and brought their nation to the brink of ruin, who, if taxed at the rate of the middle class, could wipe out the deficit, but are willing to see education and infrastructure go unfunded instead.  Talking abstractions–capitalism, socialism–is academic, and not on point.

    • BTJ

      There are enough grievances to go around. With a crowd this diverse — sorry to all those who pretend it is monchromatic like the Tea Party — you are going to have a lot of stuff thrown against the wall until the message gets narrowed down. In any case, the richest got bailed out and now get bonuses. the system is rigged and broken.

  • GretchenMo

    Forecast for rain, flea-baggers staying home.

    • nj

      Forum forecast: Indefinite, intermittent, lame trolling from the Mo’s.

      • Brett

        I like that! We have our very own two stooges…and they’re both Mo’s! 

  • swp

    Perhaps nobody imagined this occupation movement would be so long-lived.  If they had known that they needed warmer weather up north, it would have started in the late spring, not the early fall.

    The only obstacle greater than the Wall Street powers that be, is the confusion and fatigue that comes from infighting.  Disagreements over how to proceed to move forward.  This dissipates everyone’s energy over time, and the powers that be know this.  If Wall Street kind of rules Washington, and Washington uses the CIA to disrupt entire governments, imagine how clever Wall Street and the CIA could be in disrupting a movement they see as a threat.  They may divide and conquer.  They may plant people as spies, people who pose as protesters, but are really just causing divisions within the movement.

    For that reason, if the movement wants to get anywhere it is crucial to create consensus quickly.  They need to be aware that the “jackals” may be working from within their own ranks to throw monkey wrenches into the works, and they must protect themselves from that.

    There is a lot of very general discussion about politics, socialism, monetary philosophies, etc.  But the only thing that will give them real power is specificity.  If they create consensus and cohesion in their suggested changes…and the simpler they are the better…then they can move forward.  They must get very very clear and specific about what they want, and stop talking in generalities for fear of stepping on toes.

    NPR’s Diane Rehm Show interviewed an author who described a very simple and effective new way to handle democratic elections, a way which would eliminate much of the confusion and complexity from the current system.  The OWS movement would benefit from settling on some actual specific goals, like the systems he proposes, and then pushing for them relentlessly.

    If they continue having general discussions, people will get tired and fed up over time.

  • Barry

    I think there is something here that can have legs, but the fanciful views of Jon Phoenix will not.

    If they want a real groundswell, the movement needs to tap into the American mainstream, and I think there is significant discontent among the middle class and poor with economic inequality, with financial institutions using risky and/or unethical practices and going unpunished, and with money’s influence in politics.

    The response though, can’t be Communism, Socialism or some kind of uber-Union movement.  None of those things will have broad support.

    • Fredlinskip

      Problem being that many of those who “frame the debate” pretend that ANY policy designed to help majority of Americans (as opposed to the few) is by definiton “socialist”.

    • Matteasmom107

      Please see my comment Barry- I have participated in both OWS and Occupy Hartford, and have many friends who are involved in the Occupy Movement. Phoenix is on the fringe, he does not speak for us. Maybe I’m being cynical but I have a feeling that’s why he was chosen to do the interview.

      I wish they had interviewed my friend Jesse LaGreca- he’s become a de facto spokesperson for OWS and he is much better at articulating our purpose and message.

      • TypicalLackThereof

        Thanks for the above confirmation and validation.

        Leave it to NPR and On Point to interview a non-representative.

        As an originator of news, they lack journalistic integrity and profundity.

  • Dave in CT

    You say forget central planning, but the show is in effect asking for what is our plan to create jobs?

    Let consumers decide what industries will exist. If its more bread and shelter right now, then let the companies that sell useless crap, go out of business.

    WHY do we always want to prop us the unsustainable consumption of crap based structure, that produces false-security jobs.

    There is no shame in an economy that provides for good food, functional shelter, basic education opportunities, and a few minor luxuries.

    There should be no shame in living within our real means.

    But we are so materialistic and consumeristic, and obviously Washington and Wall St are ADDICTED to our false economy and the TAXES and PROFITS they milk out of our, OUR, debt-based false economy.

    They take the taxes and the profits, we get the debt. WAKE UP

    • MoniqueDC

      Dave, read AFFLUENZA (book derived from a PBS special on consumerism).   You will find it enlightening (and enjoyable,)

  • Matteasmom107

    Phoenix is a freaking loon and does not speak for me or for most of the people I know participating in OWS. It is an unfortunate side effect of a leaderless movement such as this that you will end up with self-appointed spokespeople going out there and purporting to speak for the majority when they are actually speaking for the fringe. OWS is NOT about abolishing capitilism and instituting socialism. Please do not let the actions and words of some of these protestors taint your view of OWS. This is about restoring our democracy and getting the corruptive influence of money out of politics, as well as holding those who crashed our economy accountable for their actions. This is a movement that both sides of the political spectrum should be able to embrace.

    • Cbevitt

      Matteasmon… it is kinda tough to have a conversation with a thousand people, you know.

      OWS is in the formation stages, I thought.   Helping bring forth many people who are concerned about the direction the country is heading.    Over time, people will coalese their thoughts and a platform will emerge.  

      And, by the way, before you react with outrage, consider listening a little harder.  I heard them say many of the same things you have commented upon.   Think of it as economic justice or rational capitalism or whatever label the OWS comes up with.  You must admit it is distinctly different from what we practice today.

  • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

    Has US capitalism reached the cancerous stage where it’s consuming its host?

    I asked the question in another forum but it belongs here.

    The Right claims that we all benefit if everyone follows their self interests. It might be true under some circumstances, but now it’s largely a myth. I fear we’re in a the perfect storm where the rich are now cannibalizing the economy. 

     First, big money has bought out Washington and more and more laws are written to benefit those with that money and the expense of the rest of us. These monied interests paid Washington to pass free trade, then banking and commodity deregulation. In the meantime, fearing a recession, the Fed has been keeping interest rates low for the past decade. With savings unable to keep up with inflation/fees in regular savings banks, the pressure is to make riskier investments. Flush with new money and free of regulations, Wall Street is free to divert perhaps trillions away from investing in upcoming technologies that can benefit us, into reckless speculation in derivatives and commodities. Productive investments overseas might bring in more return so why invest here? Wall Street’s manipulation of the food and energy markets has also becomes a drag on the economy itself… a tax on all of us. Arguably one of the last straws that broke the Bush economy was $147 a barrel oil. Wall Street has a vacuum cleaner in all our wallets and along with free trade outsourcing, this works against any government stimulus efforts… either spending or lowering taxes.

    I fear we’re not going to dig ourselves out of this rat hole until we can stop Big Money from buying politicians AND the entire right wing/neo-liberal philosophy that got us here is rejected by the public and BOTH parties. Neither is likely to happen. The Right has perfected scapegoat politics and shows no remorse or second thoughts. The Democrats have become the party of the cowardly braindead and can’t even raise the alarm. Worst, the globalization we helped foster now has its own dynamic that prevents reforms. Once we’ve opened up our economy to global competition not only is there downward pressure on our wages, but reversing free trade could cause a trade war.

    The government will be under increasing pressure to create a new bubble to inflate to give us again the illusion of a thriving economy.

    If the above is true, then perhaps only the OWS movement can raise the alarm. The Tea Party is nothing but more of the same insanity, only on steriods.

  • Michaellong100

    If you want to know what changed since Ronald Reagan then here is a list:1. Taxes are lower than they were for seven of eight years of Reagan’s presidency.2. Usury was a crime not a business plan.3. The Financial sector was 15% of the economy not over 50%.4. The top earners were great entrepreneurs and industrial CEOs not hedge fund managers and bank CEOs.5. Education was provided by the finest college system in the world not private student loan farms with 28% graduation rates and astronomical fees. Wall Street funded student loan farms, funded by tax payer backed loans like University of Phoenix, Kaplan and Art Institutes are creating a generation of debt slaves that tax payers bail out and Wall Street profits from. 6. Banks could not choose their own regulator.7. Wall Street invested money in business during the 80s – they didn’t get Federal Reserve money to bet on hyper leveraged derivatives contracts. They actually put the money INTO the business as opposed to just betting on the credit worthiness of bonds.8. Consumer fraud was prosecuted – not promoted as financial innovation.9. The SEC and FDIC were actually funded.10. Wall Street fraud and misrepresentation were prosecuted and people went to jail. You can do whatever you want in the derivatives market because everything is legal. How many people went to jail for in the Savings and loan crisis of the late eighties? Compare that to the number of prosecutions (ZERO) for the mortgage crisis?

  • Michaellong100

    If you want to know what changed since Ronald Reagan then here is a list:

    1. Taxes are lower than they were for seven of eight years of Reagan’s presidency.2. Usury was a crime not a business plan.
    3. The Financial sector was 15% of the economy not over 50%
    .4. The top earners were great entrepreneurs and industrial CEOs not hedge fund managers and bank CEOs.
    5. Education was provided by the finest college system in the world not private student loan farms with 28% graduation rates and astronomical fees. Wall Street funded student loan farms, funded by tax payer backed loans like University of Phoenix, Kaplan and Art Institutes are creating a generation of debt slaves that tax payers bail out and Wall Street profits from. 
    6. Banks could not choose their own regulator.
    7. Wall Street invested money in business during the 80s – they didn’t get Federal Reserve money to bet on hyper leveraged derivatives contracts. They actually put the money INTO the business as opposed to just betting on the credit worthiness of bonds.
    8. Consumer fraud was prosecuted – not promoted as financial innovation.
    9. The SEC and FDIC were actually funded.
    10. Wall Street fraud and misrepresentation were prosecuted and people went to jail. You can do whatever you want in the derivatives market because everything is legal. How many people went to jail for in the Savings and loan crisis of the late eighties? Compare that to the number of prosecutions (ZERO) for the mortgage crisis?

    • Guest

      huge! Thanks a bunch for posting this

      • Michaellong100

        I wrote a lot more do you want me to send it to you?

    • MoniqueDC

      Michaellong100.   I would like to read more of your thoughts.  Please email:  cbevitt3@yahoo.com

  • DV

    I have been listening to NPR for quite a few years now and I dont think I’ve ever been so incensed and aghast at almost every single comment uttered on this particular program. 

    I’m delighted and thrilled that there is some real debate going on and that people are taking an interest in matters of their country that should have been addressed a long time ago.  This is an immensely positive thing.

    I do believe that all of the folks on this particular show are completely missing the point.  Comments were made on the program ranging from politicizing the rallies to wanting to overthrow the government or to put politicians in place that want to try to effect change.

    So. Missing.  The.  Point.

    There in three major issues here that are affecting not only our country and our world and we should be having conversations in a real and meaningful way about how to actually make them work and nothing I heard on this show or from any of the guests was even close to the mark.

    1) The New Global Economy.  I’m guessing there are a handful of people on the planet that truly understand the vast complexity of global macroeconomics.  Let’s face it.  Regulations in countries around the world affect everything else now.  Whether you are a yak herder in Afghanistan or a beet farmer in Latvia or a corn grower in Iowa we are more and more interconnected and reliant upon global market forces that very few people comprehend. 

    We need to start trying to make sense of it and find a new and innovative solution to managing this new world we live in where communication is instantaneous and market forces across the world can affect us right in our own local communities wherever we are.

    2) Technoshock.  We are advancing our technology around the world in brilliant and fascinating ways and continue to make strides in how we communicate and how business is transacted on a global scale and yet we are only just starting to feel out how to make it all work effectively.  Combine this with the New Global Economy and it makes quite a knot to untangle and make sense of in a way that will benefit people in the United States or elsewhere around the world.

    3) Innovation.  The fact is that many of the companies that have large numbers of white collar workers have laid them off and most of those jobs probably are never going to come back.  The companies are being forced by the current economic situation to find new and clever ways of conducting business that involves software engineering and development that means they wont need most of their workers back when things get better. 

    Innovation is great!  The problem is I think we’re all looking for the next big thing.  The industrial revolution created a brand new world of economics and business and jobs.  The technological revolution did the same.  We need something new, whatever that is that we’re all scrabbling to figure out, that will create a vast new industry for workers and usher in a new age as these other ideas have in the past.

    These are the things I want to be hearing the protesters talking about.  I dont need to hear, “Viva la Revolucion!!” with absolutely no idea what that means or how to effect meaningful change. 

    Politics aside, I dont think any President, Republican of Democrat or Other, would have been able to effectively manage the current state of our country and world.  We have created a vast system of economics and mountains of regulations that defeat change at every turn.  That is what they are designed to do and that is what they continue to do and they are a self perpetuating blight on advancement and development and just good old common sense.

    I would urge folks to take a look at Phillip K. Howard’s books on the subject which are completely non-partisan and take a thoughtful and methodical look at how bureaucracy has altered the very fabric of our society.

    These are the things we must address as a people in the United States and as members of a global community wherever you reside.

  • Toddfboyle

    I felt the analysis in this show was shallow –particularly by Phoenix.  Bre Lembitz was most articulate.  I actually learned new things from Bre’s comments– the idea that the OWS is about basic paradigms more than specific party, candidate or even policy. And the idea is this: our present system based on majority-voting gives 51% of the people 100% of the power and makes everything into a win-lose hell. Consensus decisionmaking embraces everybody a process that give policies that work for everybody.

  • Emily, Brooklyn

    Todd Gitlin’s emphasis on compromise was a breath of fresh air in that discussion.  It reminded me of Gary Kasparov, speaking at a Human Rights Watch film festival, in which he explained that his purpose in running for president of Russia it was not to  win (of that he had no hope) but to bring together the dissident voices within Russia in the hope of bringing down the Kremlin. Someone from the audience declared the wonders of Soviet life, and Kasparov said simply, “you’ve forgotten what it was like.”

  • John Sanbonmatsu

    The problem is capitalism, not inequality as such, not the Fed or the banks.  This is a systemic problem, and until and unless we move toward another system, we are not going to get at the root of the problem.  (Here’s something longer I wrote on this topic: http://www.tikkun.org/article.php/may_jun_09_sanbonmatsu.)

    • Tim E

      John, I’m not interested in having a socialist system, so that agenda doesn’t have my support.  But I’d go to the wall for a constitutional amendment to put a stop to Congress being bought and paid for with money.  If you’re willing to go that far with me, we can get something meaningful done together.

  • Bob

    What do the 99%ers want? 

    Ending campaign contributions to fund political campaigns through a constitutional amendment, breaking up the corporate trusts and ending the second gilded age for a start. 

    Special interests are who are politicians listen to not the American people.  When the politicians fear the American people things will begin to change.

  • Drew You Too

    This comment will probably get me labeled as a socialist or some other such nonsense but so be it. This should be a global protest and the stated goal should be a complete and uncompromising end to The Financial Sector worldwide. We’re at the breaking point people and we all know what the problem is. Unfortunately, I can’t see any change being made peacefully, the schoolyard bully never gives up their toys without a fight.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FSTN5453LFVPU44EFDT4H5G33U Domenico

      As I wrote in a previous message, what is needed is a political organization like the Non-Partisan League that won the 1917-18 elections in North Dakota. At that time the farmers of North Dakota were captives of bankers and grain dealers based in Minneapolis and Chicago. Among other things, the League legislators created public grain elevators and the State Bank of North Dakota, which is still quite successful. To see what can be achieved when voters elect legislators who act in the public interest, who cannot be bought by lobbyists, and who actually draft the laws, I recommend “Prairie Giant: The Tommy Douglas Story,” which is available at http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002CA68HK/ref=cm_cd_asin_lnk In 1945, the farmers of Saskatchewan elected Douglas and his Social Democratic (CCF) Party in a landslide. One of the first laws was the Farm Protection Act, which protected farmers whose mortgages were almost fully repaid. In 1962, after the fifth electoral victory, the CCF government created a Provincial health insurance plan. Similar plans were created by other Canadian Provinces when John Diefenbaker, the Conservative Federal Prime Minister, offered matching federal dollars to the Provinces that created similar plans.

  • JustThinking

    Eleven Hundred comments later and what have we accomplished?

    • your listener

      It takes time and patience, keep dialogue open and participate, good things always take longer to build than a second of destruction.

      Peace & love

  • rosebud

    all i can say is the “tea party” got their turn and now have a stranglehold on the entire political system. as if 2008 wasn’t bad enough, NOW the whole world is aghast at what we have become-
    a bunch of LOSERS scrambling after demeaning jobs (what few are even left to fight over). SO NOW let these OWS folks havetheir turn, their opportunity- AND I WELCOME THEIR IDEAS. WE NEED TO HEAR THEM, and keep an open mind.    WE live in a beautiful peace of real estate. it is time for us to connect to the land like we’re supposed to anyway, and connect to each other (as we’re supposed to anyway). go outside and sit in the grass and shut up for a while. if you’re REALLY LISTENING you will begin to notice all the real stuff that is happening all around you all of the time.  then you should know what to do- and not do- to make things better.   OWS has issued a set of rules respecting the local community near the areas where large numbers of protesters have gathered. they do NOT want to be an obnoxious or disrupting influence, but rather a soul-searching and educating one. we-the-people, not financed by some wealthy elite, but you know, US, the folks that participate in elections with our bodies, our minds, our 20 dollar donations, community organizers, health care workers, union members, etc. OR just a lonely, lonesome individual seeking a way to live this life (in an advanced society)- not as a vampire but as a human being. if you can’t do that here, where on earth are you supposed to be able to do it?

    • ChinUp

      ‘Tea Party’… stranglehold?  In their dreams.  That’s what they said about the ‘religious right’ under Bush the 2nd.

      Next time, don’t buy the ‘hope and change’ rhetoric. 

      You won’t be disappointed.

      • 97

        Blaming Obama for not being able to get anything through the TParty controlled House he was given by the voters?  Blame the voters who didn’t show up in 2010.
        AFAIK this country has not become a monarchy and the Pres is only one branch of government.

    • your listener

      You, see right through….., thank you!

      Peace & love

  • Najla2

    Ralph Nader always a spokesman for the people wrote in his post Rumble from the People on October 11; “the Occupy Wall Street effort gets more remarkable by the day. It carries the moral outrage and the moral authority of the vast majority of Americans who are excluded, disrespected, defrauded, unrepresented, underpaid and unemployed. The American dream has turned into a nightmare. They are taught to trust as school children the very public and business institutions that have betrayed them, looted or drained their pensions, their tax dollars and their common properties.”  He also stated. “Taxing Wall Street speculators could produce hundreds of billions of overdue dollars a year from just a 1/2 percent sales tax on financial speculation.”   Read more at http://www.Nader.org

  • Infantry

    Can not find a job after college? Join the ARMY like I did. Here is some free advice that your liberal colleges dont tell you. Nobody gives it to you, you have to take it.

    • your listener

      Oh…. okay, that’s the reason why our national military defense budget didn’t get effected by this wicked recession, huh??  Have you ever given a thought on why??

    • Sara_sully

      that is not an option for a lot of people.

    • Ippus

      Ridiculous.  There are plenty of people the military simply won’t take, for a wide variety of reasons.  
      Never mind the fact that we already spend incredible amounts of money on “defense,” and a lot of people are categorically opposed to that.
      Between corporate “persons” with the right to spend as much “speech” as they want in our elections, and the influence of the military-industrial complex itself, the system is broken.

    • Anonymous

      Well that’s great for you. However your job might be over pretty soon as there are some huge cuts coming and the military, which is one of the largest in terms of government payroll, is going to be cutting back.  You know what gets me is that you think you’re so f’n clever but you are a hypocrite. Why? You use the word liberal and the tone you have is typical right wing and you are most likely one of those who are calling for a smaller government.
      Meanwhile you are on the government payroll. Talk about a hypocrite.

  • Todd Boyle

    Here’s a song Jim Page sang at our Veterans for Peace benefit: “They say they will incorporate the world.  Over my dead body!” enjoy this spirited song. http://blip.tv/toddfboyle/jim-page-with-joe-martin-over-my-dead-body-5644067

  • Viola
  • Mitchell T. Horn

    Occupy wall street should argue for LOWER TAXES. Why not an income tax cut from 28% to 5%?

  • Slipstream

    I am totally with my former professor, Todd Gitlin, on this one.  I want to see this movement grow and become more powerful, and to have an influence on legislation and governance.  However, please do not come up with figurehead and run him against Obama in the general election.  You could end up putting Romney or Perry (or hell, maybe Cain or Paul – the Republicans seem more confused than ever, Tea Party or no Tea Party) in the White House, the same way wouldbe philosopher-king Nader did. 

    And as for a third party, aren’t there already third parties that share your views?  The Green Party, for example, and a number of other socialist-type parties, have been in existence for quite some time.  What the Greens (or whoever) really need to do is start winning some local elections, something they have tried to do but not succeeded at.  Part of that could be due to corruption – I voted for a local Green several years back, and was horrified to see that the final vote tally listed zero votes for this candidate – he should have had at least 1!  I understand that it is virtually impossible to break the stranglehold that the major parties have on fundraising and the media, but if it is going to happen, it take place from the grassroots up, not the other way around.  You will need to begin convincing ordinary people in small towns and cities to vote for you, not just get the attention of the New York media with some rallies in their hometown. 

    And good luck – I hope some good things come out of all this.

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  • NewfamilyGuy

    I’m against this movement, it lacks direction, it’s uninspired and simply a waste of energy that could be harnessed towards an actual change. There is no socialist or communist utopia at the end of this movement. There needs to be change, however the long they sleep in the parks and  protest the actual institutions that they should infultrate and make a difference from the inside. Get up off your perch, put those drums back in there cases and make your move.   

  • Kathy02001

    really shows how dum eople are there never get any where blocking rightway what the oint  there loser they have nothing to do but to get  in streets act dum waste time when they should be working  it started with obama saying taking to the street  the class warfar  hello it be another civil war if this kees up there old news

    • Anonymous

       You need to take an English class.

    • YoyO34

      Maybe they are taking a break after learning spelling and grammar?
      I know grade school is tuff, but once you get through it, your thinking will clear up quite a bit.

      • Anonymous

        tuff, that’s funny. 

  • Kathy02001

    people were tried of this move  on

  • Mneltner

    We all are missing this boat.  Priority one Get out of debt. Look at China. They are eating us for lunch.  Their kids are focus on training and learning.  Two; learn to work hard, have fun and do without. Sorry you will have to take less salary.  Meaning all this stuff you want to buy is not meaningful.  Our grandparents learned to live ok with simple things. Next quit thinking me and think we.  The unemployed need to go and get retrain. i am 62 and had to move 800 mles to get a job.  I live with less and wow i am saving money with less. My son a college graduate spend two more years retraining because his degree offered him no job.  He spent three years in China and saw the writing on the wall.  We are not entitled to nothing. We earn what we sow.  The Rich will join the party if we show by example.   Encourage the rich to invest and they will participate in the process. if they dont then we the collective group will put them out of business.  That is the capital way.   What the movement should be doing is asking the employers to hire up one employee.  If they did that unemployment would go to zero.  Reduce the debt.  That is what the Tea Party is saying.  Once you accomplish we can again hold up our head.  Love your God, Work hard, play hard. Be a servant and help others.  “Play it Forward”  If we all do this the Crystal Blue Persuasion will surround us.

    • Anonymous

      The Rich will join the party if we show by example. Don’t hold your breath.

      The tea party is saying they want to cut every program and they want their white bread country back. I find them to be the worst thing to happen to this nation. But this is what happens when there is a downturn, the extremist come out of the woodwork’s.

    • StanConn

      Naive, but not just naive — also kind of silly.  Why shouldn’t everyone share in the acquired accretion of human potential?
      You can choose to start over as an individual if you want, just walk off naked into a national forest and build your own civilization.
      No, you insist on believing that it is a matter of morals that you believe that through the manipulation of a system that they designed to be profitable to themselves and spared no one their corrupting influence that we should lay down and just let a hand full of families steal the accumulated wealth of a nation that that was built by hundreds of thousands of families?  And recently, in many cases, these people are people who were employed working next to a torrent of currency, and all they did was figure out how to subvert the system and splash themselves with some of that currency, produced nothing but suffering for others, no product, no wealth (except for themselves by ruining the general economy), nothing.

      Oh we should just retrain and go on our way?  Adapt to the brave new world created by the ultimate ascendance of manipulative criminals and do our best to work harder. Good plan.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tom-LaMar/100000130159177 Tom LaMar

    Those like mr. “Infantry” below can find employment in the military to be good for them and their families if all else fails and they qualify of course, BUT THAT is the republican/wallstreet/k-street/MIC plan…to turn us into a pared down, spartanized nation of soldiers for the likes of the ISAF and Petraeus; a rapid deployment force with drones, etc. to “keep order” in the world as our unpunished expatriate super-rich commit what is tantamount to treason against the Constitution with unregulated major capital flight, easy off-shoring, and outsourcing of jobs and whole industries with actual incentives to do so !  We are losing for mankind, the “last best hope” it ever had, being kept alive by these young people, who need effective leadership and support to help save the country and restore the Constitution, habeas corpus and get rid of horrid entities, ie. the oxymoronic “patriot act” and scotus’s “citizens united”  misnomers for a start…how about even “corporate personhood” from the 1800s and the private banking portion of the federal reserve with the striclty controlled government printing of Federal, no-debt incurred currency? …besides repudiating the 1/2 of the national debt that is the fed’s, like Iceland just did…and you don’t see tanks rolling into the capital do you ?   Greece should follow suit next and start THAT chain reaction to get rid of “money created as debt” forever (John Law, 1600s, Scotland; the system the fed uses that we suffer under thanks to Hamilton).

  • ABob576

    Remember Kent State. And New Mexico were students were bayoneted a few weeks later? In the aftermath, eighty five percent of the public believed that the students were responsible for the violence.  Facts: None of the four students that were murdered by US troops for protesting the illegal invasion of Cambodia were within a hundred yards of the hero that killed them.  Two of the slain, were on their way to classes and were not involved in the protests. This was with a military composed of a cross section (except for the one percent) of Americans, the national guard was pretty exempt from use in VietNam back then so it was a good thing to get into if you wanted to avoid actual combat, like George Bush did with his free dental program and free flight training in the Texas Air National Guard.  Of course George was just taking advantage of his privilege as one of the one percent (remember this is a person who said that they just don’t understand poverty. (I could explain it to him easily by taking his wallet, cell phone, and other affluent comforts and dumping him in any one of a hundred US cities) nevertheless he is just doing what anyone would unless they had an urge to fight in an ill-considered (to say the least) war, and I would have done the same if I was young, self-interested, and dumb.  The point is that the people in the military, with few exceptions, above all others have the least accurate idea about what is actually going on, they are fully capable of making bloody confetti of the protestors, and given the order probably would, as they have in the past.

    • Klockstop

      This is how it will happen.  One of the one-percent or a cabal of monied interests will arrange for a sniper to start shooting police or guardsmen, during a disturbance at one of the OWS locations, which disturbance will have been caused by paid provocateurs posing either as protestors, or among enforcement or more likely via the positioning of assets so as to lead to an inevitable disturbance, by a person of position and power in enforcement who receives payoffs disguised as fees for speaking engagements or some other ruse.

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  • Cime

    I just hope all the occupy Wall Street people remember to VOTE!!!!

  • X-Ray

    We hear what the OWS are against, but what are they for? What solutions do they offer. Saying put the people who got us here on trial isn’t enough.  I’m against Drunk Driving but what can I suggest to make the situation better; new laws, better enforcement, heavy punishment, or what. Just saying you’re against something isn’t enough, not by a long shot. Promising to “Tear it down”, isn’t helpful either.

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Apr 18, 2014
Russian President Vladimir Putin speaks during a nationally televised question-and-answer session in Moscow on Thursday, April 17, 2014. President Vladimir Putin has urged an end to the blockade of Moldova’s separatist province of Trans-Dniester. Trans-Dniester, located in eastern part of Moldova on border with Ukraine, has run its own affairs without international recognition since a 1992 war. Russian troops are stationed there.  (AP)

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Apr 18, 2014
This undated photo provided by NASA on April 2, 2014 shows Saturn's moon Enceladus. The "tiger stripes" are long fractures from which water vapor jets are emitted. Scientists have uncovered a vast ocean beneath the icy surface of the moon, they announced Thursday, April 3, 2014. Italian and American researchers made the discovery using Cassini, a NASA-European spacecraft still exploring Saturn and its rings 17 years after its launch from Cape Canaveral. (AP)

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Apr 18, 2014
Russian President Vladimir Putin speaks during a nationally televised question-and-answer session in Moscow on Thursday, April 17, 2014. President Vladimir Putin has urged an end to the blockade of Moldova’s separatist province of Trans-Dniester. Trans-Dniester, located in eastern part of Moldova on border with Ukraine, has run its own affairs without international recognition since a 1992 war. Russian troops are stationed there.  (AP)

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