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Tracking Neutrinos

Roll over Einstein. Scientists clock neutrinos moving faster than the speed of light. If it’s true, it changes everything. We’ll track neutrinos.

In this Tuesday, March 30, 2010 file photo, the globe of the European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN, is illuminated outside Geneva, Switzerland. Scientists at CERN, the world's largest physics lab, say they have clocked subatomic particles, called neutrinos, traveling faster than light, a feat that, if true, would break a fundamental pillar of science. (AP)

In this Tuesday, March 30, 2010 file photo, the globe of the European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN, is illuminated outside Geneva, Switzerland. Scientists at CERN, the world's largest physics lab, say they have clocked subatomic particles, called neutrinos, traveling faster than light, a feat that, if true, would break a fundamental pillar of science. (AP)

E=mc2 is the one piece of physics everybody knows.  Einstein’s special relativity theory.  1905. Says nothing can travel faster than the speed of light.  It’s the basis, the bedrock, of modern physics.  And last week, out of the big CERN facility in Europe, the stunning news that some speedy little neutrinos have been clocked traveling faster.  Faster than the speed of light.

To physicists, that’s more than an earthquake.  Most are skeptical so far.  Waiting for confirmation.  But if it were true?  Time travel fans, start your engines.

This hour On Point:  speedy neutrinos rock Einstein’s world.

-Tom Ashbrook

Guests

Michio Kaku, theoretical physicist, tenured professor, and co-creator of string field theory, a branch of string theory.

Stan Wojcicki, a member of the MINOS collaboration [Main Injector Neutrino Oscillation Search] at Fermilab and a Professor Emeritus at Stanford University.

James Gillies, a particle physicist and spokesman for CERN (European Organization for Nuclear Research), which runs a series of particle accelerators, including, most famously nowadays, the Large Hadron Collider.

From Tom’s Reading List

The news of the neutrino experiment prompted an explosion of neutrino jokes on the web, here are a few.

Here’s a description of the OPERA team’s experiment that produced the startling results.

Wired “In the experiment, neutrinos are generated at the Super Proton Synchrotron (SPS) particle accelerator at the CERN LHC complex in Geneva and further accelerated down a 1 km beam line toward the Gran Sasso National Laboratory in Italy. At Gran Sasso, a detector instrument called OPERA measures the neutrinos. The distance from CERN to Gran Sasso is 732 km straight through the Earth, traveling up to 11.4 km below the Earth’s surface. Remember, neutrinos don’t interact with matter so the Earth is invisible to the tiny particles.”

Wall Street Journal “That was the reaction of physicists around the world last week when they heard that experiments in Switzerland indicate that Einstein’s theory of relativity might be wrong. Since 1905, when Einstein declared that nothing in the universe could travel faster than light, the theory has been the bedrock of modern physics. Indeed, most of our high-tech wizardry depends on it.”

New Scientist “Most commonly, experiments use large pools of water or oil. When neutrinos interact with electrons or nuclei of those water or oil molecules, they give off a flash of light that sensors can detect.”

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  • Hidan

    cool if they can reproduce the results,

  • Gemli

    I doubt that neutrinos go faster than the speed of light, but if they do it will be an exciting time for physics.  This new fact would not destroy the foundation of physics, but rather demonstrate that the foundation is incomplete and needs revision.  Any pains that it may cause are growing pains.  That’s how progress is made in the sciences, and that’s not a bad thing.  Most of us weren’t around when Einstein was turning the world of physics upside down, so what a blast it would be to be present for such a monumental upheaval in our understanding of the universe.

  • JustSayin

    A neutrino and a photon are sitting in their kitchen, and neutrino is reading the CERN newsletter.
    Neutron: “It says here, most of the universe is invisible to me, I have high penetration, but I arrive quicker than you…. Scientific community largely dissatisfied with the result.”
    Photon reply’s flatly: “They’re dissatisfied! We have to talk…”

  • Yar

    “The warping-effect of mass on space-time suggested by the theory predicts an effect known as gravitational redshift, in which the light emitted from the center of a galaxy cluster with a large mass has a longer wavelength than the light coming from its edges, shifting toward the red end of the light spectrum as the light’s frequency decreases. ” From, http://newyork.ibtimes.com/articles/221947/20110929/galaxy-cluster-prove-einstein-general-relativity-gravity-dark-matter.htm

    If I understand red shift correctly, the speed of light isn’t changed by wavelength,  (the emission speed) by making the wave longer, the photon travels less distance in the same amount of time. 
    A neutrino has zero wave height, therefore it should be expect to travel faster than a photon, because the shortest distance is between two points is a straight line. A photon travels in a wave while a neutrino  doesn’t.  Would the difference in observed speed account for a difference in distance traveled?  
    If the distance between the two locations was measured with lasers, then the true distance between them may actually be less.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Red shifting is a change in the wavelength, but not the distance or the velocity, so that doesn’t matter.  Also, calling light a wave is a choice of which equations you like.  Light can also be described in particle terms–photons.

      • Yar

        1 angstroms = 1.0 × 10-10 metersRed light at 6500 angstroms = 650 nanometers times 60 nanoseconds is about the difference in distance measured at the speed of light. 
        A wave distance verses a straight line.  Do I see a dimension that doesn’t exist?

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

          Light is a transverse wave–in other words, the wavelength is perpendicular to the direction of travel.

          • Anonymous

            @gregcamp:disqus  @Yar_From_Somerset_Ky:disqus It is true that light is a transverse wave, but the two components that are perpendicular to the direction of the light (and to each other) are the electric field (voltage) and the magnetic field (Lorentz force).
            See:

               http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_wave 

    • Marcel Grossman

      No, the photon does not move transverse (at right-angles-to) its path, the wavelength is a characteristic of the particle at each point on its path.  The red-shift does not affect the speed of the observed particle.

      In any event, the mass of the Earth is not high enough to have noticeable general relativistic effects—NASA could and did do everything it has ever done using Newtonian mechanics.

      • Anonymous

        @0e9e24940283cea6efd2932a48f83712:disqus  For one thing, the relativistic effects of the earth’s mass and the speed of the satellites WERE taken into account relativistically for the GPS system. Without doing that, locations on earth could not be calculated so accurately.

    • Anonymous

      @Yar_From_Somerset_Ky:disqus  In considering the properties of light, the relationship between wavelength (lambda) and frequency (f) is such that the product of them is a constant, the speed of light, c [James Clerk Maxwell]. Thus as light leaves a moving object, the distance between the peaks of the wave is either shortened (when the object is moving in the same direction as the light) or lengthened (when the object is moving away from the direction of the direction of light).

      The wonder and what leads to strange (to normal human-level observers) effects is that for objects the size of atoms and smaller, electrons, protons and neutrons and neutrinos have a “dual personality” where when observed in certain ways they express particle characteristics and in others they express wave characteristics. But in neither by Einstein’s Theory of Relativity can the speed of the particle exceed that of light (a massless particle).

  • Jasoturner

    I realize this is a tangential comment, but it is interesting that science, when confronted with possible evidence that foundational theories may be erroneous, embraces the opportunity to probe further and to discover the truth.  I think we sometimes take the scientific method so much for granted that we forget it is one of the greatest achievements of mankind.  How much easier it would have been to stop with Newtonian physics.  That we are at this level of contemplation about the universe is staggering.

  • EdwardBurke

    Because the measurement problem of quantum mechanics
    has not yet been resolved satisfactorily, how trustworthy are measurements
    provided by the OPERA investigators, and how trustworthy should any “confirmation”
    or “disconfirmation” of the OPERA results be deemed? AND/OR: if neutrinos are in
    fact judged to be capable of velocities in excess of the speed of light, what
    implication does this hold for resolution of the remaining questions concerning
    wave function collapse and quantum decoherence?

    • Anonymous

      @99e85e6738fd7b0cd1034705ce9d1fc7:disqus  Are you talking about Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle? Since physicists regularly make calculations using Quantum theory predicting results with an accuracy of 10 or more digits when the result of a physical experiment is measured, this does not seem to be that type of problem. So why should this be a HUP measurement problem?

      What do you mean by quantum decoherence?

      • EdwardBurke

        Don: my question is intrinsically pedestrian, since I possess scant mathematical aptitude and demonstrate unimpressive competency when balancing my checkbook each month. In point of fact, my questions rely almost exclusively on the Wikipedia entries for wave function collapse, interpretation of quantum mechanics, quantum decoherence, et cetera. My faint understanding is that, at the quantum level, entanglement between what is purported to being measured and the device which is purported to provide the measurement (and/or quantum entanglement on the part of the observer performing the measurement) is unavoidable. The superposition of allowable eigenstates always yields a single measurement; yet the mathematicians do not seem satisfied yet that they can explain mathematically how one measurement arises given the range of allowable eigenstates. If mathematicians were satisfied with their equations, the so-called “measurement problem of quantum mechanics” would have ceased being an issue decades ago. The measurement problem endures, however, and ask any high-octane physicist with the mathematical competence to explain it more perzacktly if you see fit to doubt my account. Insofar as the measurement problem of quantum mechanics has not been resolved satisfactorily, who is in position to confirm or disconfirm the tentative findings of the OPERA investigators? AND: if physicists determine to their satisfaction that neutrinos can indeed move at faster-than-light speeds, would this new determination equip physicists and mathmaticians to resolve the remaining questions concerning the measurement problem of quantum mechanics and quantum decoherence? (Granted, I’m still digesting the Wikipedia entry for quantum decoherence, and if that entry looks untrustworthy to you, do let me know, please.)     

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    How are the neutrinos generated, and how are they aimed?

    • JustSayin

      …and how do they know that the detected neutrinos are the ones they generated.

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        There are a variety of neutrinos that have differening characteristics–flavors.  Ah, here’s the answer:  They can be generated by certain types of radioactive decay.

  • http://profiles.google.com/barry.kort Barry Kort

    Because there is no microtunnel to shoot a beam of photons alongside the beam of neutrinos, the experimenters had to rely on a pair of atomic clocks, one at each end of the track, to measure the elapsed time.

    But as I understand the relativity of simultaneity, the concept of synchrony of events at points separated in space is not well defined.  It depends on the frame of reference of the observer.  The two clocks are synchronized in the frame of reference of the GPS satellites in Earth orbit, but they would not appear to be synchronized in other frames of reference (e.g. a Copernican frame of reference looking down on the Solar System, or an Andromedan frame of reference looking back on the Milky Way Galaxy).

    I don’t understand how they resolve the ambiguity of having two clocks separated in space.

    For an explanation of the relativity of simultaneity, see this brief video:

    http://youtu.be/wteiuxyqtoM

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Is it contrary to Einstein, if true?  As I understand the equations, velocity past the light speed results in negative time.

  • guest

    I thought that Fermilab in Illinois was the first to discover this.  My friend who works there was talking about this over a year ago…  Did the Geneva lab just confirm it?

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Fermilab’s results had too much fuzziness in the data–the result was within the margin of error.

      • guest

        Ahhh, thank you for the clarification!

  • http://www.facebook.com/ericnewberg Eric Reed Lorentzen-Newberg
  • http://www.facebook.com/ericnewberg Eric Reed Lorentzen-Newberg
  • Jaeme in KY

    I am no scientist, but I don’t see why light speed would equal time travel… could that be explained better?

    While the light from a dead star continues to travel outwards and we see it hundreds of thousands of years later, that is travelling as a wave, like a sound wave, that continues travelling… that doesn’t mean the STAR is in the future or the past, just that the wave continued to travel… I can’t wrap my mind around why this finding has everyone talking time travel…

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Einstein’s equations involve both time and space–he unified the two.  When an object approaches the speed of light, time slows down for it, reaching zero at light speed.  The equations offer negative time past light speed, but that’s usually rejected as impossible.  Perhaps it isn’t.

    • Anonymous

      Suppose I measure the time it takes for a faster than light particle to go from Point A to the point where I am at, Point B.  I should measure 10 seconds, but in fact I measure 9.  Either the particle got to me by travelling faster.  OR, -and here’s the key- it took 10 seconds to get to me, but traveled back in time by 1 second, then registered on my detector at second 9.

      Time travel and going faster than  the speed of light -experimentally- can’t be separated so they are basically the same thing.

      Here’s another example.  Point A and B are separated by 1 light year.  It takes light 1 year to travel that distance.  My friend has a warp ship and can travel twice the speed of light.  I don’t have a warp engine, but I have a time machine that travels the speed of light.  So, I go at the speed of light from A to B, it takes me a year. But at point B, I travel 1/2 year back in time, and meet my friend at the finish line at point B at the same time.

  • Bluzader

    Based on my understanding of the equations of Special Relativity : 1) if a particle travels at the speed of light, then a division by zero happens and 2) if a particle travels faster than the speed of light, then a square root of a negative number happens BOTH of which are called “undefined” or have no physical explanation. I do not think that means that particles cannot move at or greater than the speed of light – it means that “we” donot understand the mathematical consequences of such particle speeds.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Not division by zero–just the variable for time goes to negative.

    • Anonymous

      @793b5fb483b83ba14494a923f39030c1:disqus  The equations of Relativity for relating the speeds of objects in different reference frames use a factor, called the Lorentz factor, which goes to one divided by zero (the square root of the difference of 1 and the square of the ratio of object’s velocity in the “base” frame to the speed of light). The resulting “infinity” is balanced by the time dilation/contraction where from the (light) particle’s perspective the time in the other frame is effectively zero in its frame [a photon sees its travel from the sun to the earth as instantaneous whereas an earth-bound observer sees it as about 8 minutes]. For a particle with mass, the relationship between its mass as seen in the two frames approaches infinity as its speed increases. This is why objects with mass are constrained to travel at less than the speed of light as it would take infinite force/energy to accelerate them to that speed.

  • Bruce

    Is the any way that this result can do anything to explain the theory of Inflation?

  • Ruth

    Why is advancement throwing out a century worth of Physics? This is advancement. Any scientist that isn’t interested in questioning theories and discovering new details within a discipline is not a true scientist. This is cool! 

    • Anonymous

      @509f8c6f3499625291053b24ea078fc9:disqus  A century of physics is unlikely to be thrown out! It might be modified, much as Newtonian physics were recognized as inapplicable when dealing with certain events, etc. Relativity calculations “collapse” to Newtonian calculations when the speed of the objects under study are small relative to the speed of light or the masses of the objects are small compared to that of a Black Hole, or the gravitational field does not vary over the range of the observation, etc.

      But Relativity, which works to a high degree of accuracy in the macro world falls down in the subatomic world and Quantum Theory does not work in Black Holes: there must be a higher level of theory which contains both and “collapses” to each simpler theory when the respective dimensionality values are inserted.

      This “discovery” in the neutrino experiment might or might not shed light on what that super theory could look like.

  • Wes Robertson

    Does this mean that nutrinos are actually tachyons.

  • Charlie W

    Any thought to the possibility that the neutrinos traveled at the speed of light but traveled a shorter distance than a straight line

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      What’s a shorter distance than a straight line?

      • Charlie W

        I don’t know what is a shorter distance than a straight line?

        • Dave in CT

          quantum leap?

        • Bill

          A jump to a timeless dimension back to a space-time dimension.

      • Charlie W

        Sorry Greg It sounded like a joke,  I was thinking that if we are challenging assumed concepts that it might be worth challenging the concepts of geometry saying the shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line.  Probably to much sci-fi

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

          Well, a geodesic line is the shortest distance between two points in any geometry.  A straight line is the geodesic in Euclidian space.

    • Anonymous

      In fact you bring up a very subtle point.  And it isn’t a joke at all, but a thought held by mathematicians long long ago evern before the time of Euclid.  And such long line of thought was the eventual genesis of modern day epistemology when Gauss, Lobachevsky, and Bolyai discovered non-Euclidean geometry.

      Anyways, if you read Euclid’s ‘The Elements’, you will note that there is no mention of a straight line.  Later axiomatizations of Euclid’s geometry by such famouse mathematicians as Hilbert, also do not define what a straight line is.

      In fact, they don’t even define what line is.  They don’t even define what a point is, nor what it means for points and lines to meet. These are left as undefined terms  - that is, they don’t have a definition, but instead those undefined terms are given relationships on how they interact and the property of ‘straightness’ follows.So, for example, in 2D Euclidean plane, given two lines that can be extended indefinitely, if those two lines are not parallel, then they will meet at only one point.  So that last statement, captures what ‘straightness’ is without having to explain it.  In fact the lines could look like anything.  It can visibily squiggle as much as you want, but as long as they only cross at one point, you have captured the essence of what a straight line is.

      So far so good?  Okay, so now remember how I said points and lines are undefined?  Well, it turns out, we can change the relationships of points and lines so that straightness can visibly look different in the physical world, just as long as your model of the world stays logically consistent.So Henri Poincare, one of the greatest mathematicians of all time (and co-discoverer of special relativity beating Einstein by a couple of months depending on who you read), stated that a straight line between A and B could be the path of least time, or least energy, or whatever… just as long as the model of your physical system remains consistent (no contradictions).  It could also be of least distance, but distance to a mathematician is not a ruler, but a metric function (an equation).

      So this inspired Einstein to find the exact metric function that agreed with physical experimentation.  (In fact, Poincare was making a statement more general than general relativity.  He also missed his chance to bask in the same glory as Mr. Albert, but we can forgive Poincare since he was a mathematician and physics was a side project.)So, what does this mean for you?  There are many straight lines between point A and B.  There’s the Euclidean straight line, there’s the straight line that light follows, which is not Euclidean but follows the gravity curvature of space-time.  And finally, the neutrino could be following it’s own rules for traversing straight.  That is what Michio Kaku was stating when he said that the math for neutrinos could be totally separate from all other particles, and so the consequence of the Opera experiment may have minimal impact to the rest of physics.

  • Anonymous

    I’m skeptical of time travel because we haven’t seen evidence of people from the future screwing up time.

    • notafeminista

      How do you know?

  • Billbodge

    Points to  computational view of the universe.  Assume that motion of subatomic particles is discontinuous i.e. they appear and disappear or turn on and off.  Sub atomic particles can travel faster than light because they are part of a binary system.  A space-time dimension and parallel space dimension that has the characteristics of timelessness.   When they are in our space-time universe, they are off in the parallel dimension.   Sub particles travel freely from our universe into the parallel dimension but pass through quantum logic gates that are subjected to the  Uncertainty Principle when they return.  More to come.

  • Guest

    Hey Tom.  Can you ask your guest how this finding relates -if at all- to quantum entanglement?  This is a phenomena where two particles can interact instantaneously.  Note that’s much faster than light, it’s instant.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ericnewberg Eric Reed Lorentzen-Newberg

    As I understand it, Special Relativity doesn’t forbid traveling faster than the speed of light – it forbids particles with mass that starts out slower than the speed of light from traveling faster than light.  If a particle is created already going faster than light, the hypothetical tachyon, then that is allowed by the equations.

  • Leda Schubert

    If time travel is shown to be theoretically possible, where are all the time travelers from the future, who have known this for a while? As the time travelers convention pointed out, such an event need not be annual, because everyone who wants to be there can show up at once.

    • steve

      I am here…
      just havenot got around to letting you know…
      until now.

      • Leda Schubert

        Thoughtful of you! From when are you visiting?

  • S.C. listener

    What a beautiful find… the foundation of the GPS Religion has been compromised.  Land Surveyors around the world will loose sleep tonight!

    I wonder how neutrinos effect Celestial Navigation.

  • http://profiles.google.com/barry.kort Barry Kort

    Charlie, think of an outfielder running forward to catch a line drive.

    Gran Sasso is east of Geneva.  The Earth rotates east to west.  As the beam is in flight, Gran Sasso is moving westward to meet the beam.  By that reckoning, the beam did not have to travel the full distance from the Geneva to Gran Sasso.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      The velocity of light must be the same for all observers.  Light doesn’t behave like a bullet.

      • http://profiles.google.com/barry.kort Barry Kort

        But timekeeping is not the same for all observers.

  • Ed

    Religion is different from science – it knows things for sure. Science approximates truth.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      It only knows for sure if you believe what it says.  It has nothing to offer a skeptic.

    • http://www.facebook.com/ericnewberg Eric Reed Lorentzen-Newberg

      Religion pretends to certainty that isn’t there, science acknowledges there is no certainty.

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        Science acknowledges the certainty of reality and tries to understand it.

    • Anonymous

      No it doesn’t.  It clings to myths and tries to twist the most recent knowledge to fit its narrative or deny the new knowledge. 

  • Beez

    This is startling. amazing to me. I think I need to meditate on this one

  • Dave in CT

    How would this finding relate with “String Theory”? Quantum events at macro level?

  • Anonymous

    Wait, wait… we’re not going to suddenly plummet to our demise like Wile E. Cayote who suddenly realizes that he’s running on thin air…. Aaaaeeeeeee.
    I’m not concerned about the metrology… perhaps there’s a flaw in the measurement or interpretation of the data. If there is a flaw in the measurement or analysis and FTL is not demonstrated, no big deal. If neutrinos can travel faster than light, we’ve been engineering systems for a hundred years and to date, they’ve been good enough. We have to ask how good is good enough. From the standpoint of physics, adapting our understanding to a new reality may open doors to new technologies in computers, energy systems, propulsion systems, the list is probably endless.
    So if modern physics has to recalibrate, the upside is that we have a major job stimulus in the physics community!

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    But neutrinos have mass.  If we make neutrinos the standard, we have to explain how an object with mass can exceed light speed.

  • Cmullin

    Didn’t the observation of a neutrino pulse associated with supernova SN1987A prove that neutrinos travel at only light speed?  If the CERN results were correct, they should have arrived four years earlier than the light.
       Second, these results are only from a seminar, not from a peer-reviewed journal article, right?  Peer-review is supposed to check results against experts in the field, so shouldn’t the media frenzy wait until it gets published in a journal?

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    It’s the temporal prime directive–see the various iterations of “Star Trek” for an explanation.

  • Rhion

    I find it telling that the human imagination has for some time been able to come up with travel beyond light speed and theories like warp drive etc.

    I often wonder if the seeds of imagination are based on instinct. :D

  • jabliss

    As a point of clarification, it was Jame Clerk Maxwell (not Einstein) who first asserted that nothing travels faster than light in his laws of electromagnetism. Einstein used this principle as a foundation for special relativity.

  • Jhsusak

    How striking (and fun) is this open-mindedness on the part of the science world when contrasted with the current narrow-mindedness of politics and religion?

  • Bluzader

    Forgive me for trying to be a literary critic: First, Mr. Ashfiled’s question about this being related to the neutrino and Dr. Kaku’s comment about GPS satellites using relativity to measure a relativity experiment were great. However, I find the idea that Einstein’s theories ‘threw 300 years of physics (newtonian physics) out the window’ is ridiculous. Einstein’s theories ‘updated’ Newton. Not that I am “seer”, but if new models come out this experiment they will probably modify existing models not “throw them out the window”. I want to nominate Dr. Kaku for the Scientific Paradigm Chicken Little award.

  • Earen

    Seems like the physicists they are using are sensationalizing the findings in an unprofessional way. It feels like this discussion is almost entirely focused on what breaks if relativity is disproved rather than discussing the ways that this could be accurate without disproving relativity or how the experiment could have gotten inaccurate results.

  • Scott B, Jamestown NY

    I’ve always felt that speed was unlimited.

    If this proves out I think they’re going to find there’s at least two sets of rules: The ones we currently hold, and the one that will show itself when they figure out what it is that makes neutrinos, and that it will actually open up quantum physics, the multiverse, string theory, et al.
    Therefore, I don’t think this finding, should it prove out, will mean we have to throw everything out, like GPS calibration, because the know set of rules is still in effect.

     I wonder if the fact they were shooting a “beam” of neutrinos if that doesn’t “scooch” them along faster, vs a star that’s just sort of scattering them? 

    I was arrested by the space police for doing the speed of light in a speed of sound zone. They caught me before I heard the siren. – paraphrases from Robin Williams as “Mork”.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      1.  Feelings have nothing to do with it.  It’s evidence only that answers.

      2.  There’s no “scooching” involved.  The event that produces the neutrino is the same in both situations.

    • Scott B, Jamestown NY

      Sounds likes I nailed it! LOL

      I still don’t think that everything is going to have to go out the window, as Dr. Kaku says, just something that says, “Unless [certain conditions are met regarding neutrinos...]….”

  • Keith Harmon

    My understanding is that space-time warps around gravity.. Photons with zero mass smoothly conform as they “slip” along the surface as water flows smoothly over curved glass/rock. My guess is that neutrinos, with their slight mass, “punch” through the curve and travel in a straight line, and are thus measured “on the curve” as having traveled faster than light. 

  • francisco

    My wife call me on her way to work. As former physicist, I was astonished! My 12 year old was happy, he’ll throw it all out in the trash for time traveling!

    It got me be a mistake! gotta be!

  • http://profiles.google.com/barry.kort Barry Kort

    Take a look at the video explaining the relativity of simultaneity.  What does it mean for the pair of atomic clocks to be in synchrony, once they are separated in space (and viewed in different frames of reference).

    On the other point of discussion, if the receiver is moving toward the light beam, the photons don’t have to travel the full distance (to where the receiver would have been had it not been traveling toward the light source).

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      But light has to be measured at the same velocity for all observers.  That’s why the time for the approaching observer slows down.

      • http://profiles.google.com/barry.kort Barry Kort

        So which observer do we go with?  The one riding the GPS satellites in Earth Orbit, an observer riding on the Earth’s crust near Gran Sasso, or one looking down upon the Solar System from a Copernican point of view?

        Each of them would have their own interpretation of whether the pair of atomic clocks are synchronized, as a function of their distinct frames of reference.

  • Anonymous

    I’m okay with this, but I don’t want to be the one who has to go to 3011 and tell Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth. 

  • Ian MacDonald

    It sounds like the physicists are very cautious about their results and are releasing them to the scientific community. However they should remember Pons and fleishmann when releasing results so publically.

  • Stephen R.

    About 30 years ago I had a tee shirt printed up that stated
    “E≠MC²”.
    It, of course, was designed to elicit response and begin a dialogue that I have to believe many in the physical sciences must have been already having for some time. As a self-styled natural philosopher and systems theorist I built my theoretical model of the universe on the works of students of Einstein, at some level. Alfred Korzybski, a mathematician, underscored a law of non-identify where nothing in the universe is identical with anything else, and, as reality is process and process/change is the only constant, a world of absolutes does not conform, as a map, to the territory that is “reality”. Ludwig Von Bertalanffy, a biologist, developed general systems theory and underscored a concept of emergence that illustrated how a whole can be greater than the sum of its parts. There is no doubt Einstein provided a framework on which to build certain ideas – but he admitted that it did not have it all figured out. The idea that you can sit down at a desk with a pen and pad and, by way of mathematics, glean absolute knowledge about the universe is nonsense –as, again, the only absolute is change. The idea of absolute energy, matter or light is also a relic of Aristotelian thought. Light, like energy or matter is a matter of perception. What spectrum of light do we perceive, and what light might exist outside our ability to perceive it. Where does Light or Energy end and Matter begin? It’s about time something cam along and shook up those so-called scientists who have built their theories (and careers) on a house of cards left over from before the new enlightenment.

    Stephen Rubino, Windsor, CT

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Actually, the velocity of light is an absolute–it must be observed by everyone as c.

  • Dave in CT

    The Science of Liberty: Democracy, Reason, and the Laws of Nature

    http://www.thefreemanonline.org/book-reviews/the-science-of-liberty-democracy-reason-and-the-laws-of-nature/

    Liberty, Science, Progress hand in hand in hand….

    • Dave in CT

      (a) Science and liberalism have similar decentralized methods.
      (b) It is very hard to have science without classical liberalism (liberty, not left) and, in turn, liberalism generally fosters scientific invention.

  • Yar

    I am betting on Einstein, I expect the distance is shorter than was measured using the speed light. 

  • Ed

    Jesus said he was the ‘light of the world’, so Einstein’s idea that light is the barrier of speed, that all is measured against the constant of the speed of light, supports the idea that the physical world mirrors and teaches about the spiritual world. So, I would doubt that the speed of light will prove to not be the fastest speed anything can go.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      This is the most egregious example of mixed metaphor that I’ve seen all day.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Seriously, Ed, the two have nothing to do with each other.  Einstein was analyzing the physical properties of electromagnetic waves, while Jesus (the character in the story) was speaking in philosophical terms.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QME6C6XTBAYFEJP2GYDH3VQEMU Beat

      you cannot compare Religion and Science but the Vatican city announced there is a possibility of Alien life forms in other planets.

      Religion is a faith to love one another or find something spiritual even though you are already a nice person. What is the goal of religion?

      Science -  is the answer to all facts and fiction.

    • Anonymous

      It has been 2000 years since Jesus was last here so he’s traveling at a much lower speed now.  He even missed the last Rapture.

    • JustSayin

      Jesus and the people of his time were extraordinarily ignorant, never
      bathed, crapped in the bushes and were infested with lice. Their “science” was reading fresh
      goat entrails, and sacrificing children to celestial events and mental illness. They knew nothing of science

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        Well, the Jewish people actually valued cleanliness, and the surrounding peoples had the beginnings of science.

        • Anonymous

          @gregcamp:disqus  @eb6e941afefc55d914e933031fc4b98a:disqus  @05618dc53fc1b6a8bb9ac4dbd459f276:disqus 
          The (Old Testament) Bible reflects the science of 600 BCe, just as Carl Sagan famously pointed out some 35 years ago and others have before and since. It was written by humans living at that time and the New Testament was written from 50 or 70 AD until the council meeting where the “correct” gospels were selected from the ”incorrect” ones for the “official” New Testament.

          Nothing scientific that could not be understood by the people of that time could be included, because it was NOT known yet. There did not even exist a thought process to distinguish scientifically what really happened from what didn’t.

          • Modavations

            WHENEVER i’M INSOMNIAC,i PICK UP cARL sAGANS BOOK(BILLIONS AND BILLIONS…).i’M COMAtose by page 2.What’s this BCE tripe.Oh I forgot,B.C.is no longer de rigeur

      • Modavations

        Sounds like the Dem.”wards of state”, in S.Francisco

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QME6C6XTBAYFEJP2GYDH3VQEMU Beat

    in order to travel space you have to pull Space near you. meaning we have to conquer time space in order to find the possibility of worm hole.

  • http://profiles.google.com/barry.kort Barry Kort

    Time for the approaching observer slows down, but in this experiment, time was not measured by the approaching observer, but by the GPS satellites, which were looking on from another point of view, up in Earth orbit.

    • Anonymous

      @google-a0093a82cb8e5be488f454b0da2715c9:disqus The GPS satellites use clocks which have to be adjusted for gravity and speed to maintain “correct” time so as to be able to calculate the travel time and distance of the neutrinos. Plus they have to be able to calculate the distances from themselves to both end points of the neutrinos’ path.

      • http://profiles.google.com/barry.kort Barry Kort

        Are the physicists at CERN and OPERA able to account for the corrections of the GPS system, since it operates in a non-inertial frame of reference?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QME6C6XTBAYFEJP2GYDH3VQEMU Beat

    if you studied or research Ancient histoy the majority of story of Jesus were when a bright light appear from the sky, when a person or thing come down from the sky. it does not have to be Jesus Christ it must have been aliens. Majority of Ancient people recorded these events on writing on the wall in caves or paintings. Jesus Christ could be a preacher or like the 700 club guy or like Bill Graham.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Huh?

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QME6C6XTBAYFEJP2GYDH3VQEMU Beat

        try watching Ancient history or Ancient astronout. so you are ha will be wow?

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

          I’ve seen enough of that nonsense.  A few cranks take some carvings that they don’t understand and make wild claims about them.

    • Modavations

      Peyote Buttons

    • Cugliano

      Jesus Christ was homeless guy begging for change.

  • Modavations

    There are two types of scientists:govt types and laissez faire types.Never trust the govt.guys.They depend on grants and will back govt.propositions:ie.Global warming.The govt.scientists claimed the earth the center of the universe,and the planet flat.

  • Michael Burrage

    Science is like putting together a puzzle without the box. Theories are best guesses about what the finished puzzle will look like. The Cern found a piece that, if it fits where they think it does, means we have to revise some theories. It will be probably be years before we know if they just put the piece in the wrong place (a measurement error) or if they are correct and theories change. But that does not throw out all the past puzzle solving, it only refines it. Newton still described the world within a margin for error, and E=mc2 still works for all practical purposes. All that has happened is a possible refinement at a level that will only really matter to scientists.

  • lucien tuluka

    yes! i like the theorie. I believe that there is something that can travel faster than light. Look @ the bible, before light were created, water, spirit and word were there already!! To me light cannot travel faster than spoken word!

  • Modavations

    As a gemologist I study light.Are you guys confusing Tachyons and neutrinos.I can guareentee neutrinos are compromised at some level.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      You study light?  Perhaps you’d care to explain how light, fired one photon at a time, shows interference patterns when sent through a diffraction grating.

      • Modavations

        AS in Opals,as in Labadorite,as in pearls.Photons are light waves.We’re talking neutrinos,but I think they mean Tachyons.

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

          Photons are particles.  Light exhibits both particle and wave characteristcs.

  • Modavations

    Timing,timing,timing.Isn’t it coincidental that one of our labs runs out of govt.money this week.

  • Modavations

    I’m agnostic,but what about Frame Dragging,etc,.

  • Modavations

    The reason most of the pointy heads were foreigners is because of our school cirriculum.Here’s a taste from Santa Cruz….
    A.Social Justice 1
    B.Social Justice 2
    C.Advanced social Justice
    D.Women’s history
    E/Gay History
    F.ADVANCED wINDMILLS

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      A philosophical question that has yet to be answered:  Why are you here?

      • Modavations

        To deprogram lefties

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

          You should have said that you’re promulgating Zen koans.

        • Anonymous

          @fa4bc3cbae1b2d01bfa84cf9b03ff954:disqus  @gregcamp:disqus  Basically he is a troll (paid?) here to pedal nonsense.

          • Modavations

            That’s it,my rAPIER IS UNSHEATHED.I’m here to show you the other side of life.You believe in the state,we believe in the individual.We want everyone to be rich,you depend on a dumbed down electorate.You see Black,Brown,etc,.We see only green(moolah)and we want everyone to have a ton,so you’ll buy our products.

          • Modavations

            Instead of waking and wringing hands,we tell jokes and laugh about the human condition.I’m hear to make you learn to laugh again.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QME6C6XTBAYFEJP2GYDH3VQEMU Beat

      When I was a grade school student in the Philippines I studied trigonometry, physics and biology on 6th and 7th grade. these are the main curriculum in the Elementary level. High school was advance algebra, singapore math, calculus and statistics and more math.

      • Margbi

        What is singapore math? Anything like the regular math?

      • Modavations

        On the last tests,American kids had the lowest scores EVER,in all 7 regimes.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          No Child Left Behind?  Or, ALL Children Left Behind?

      • Modavations

        All colleges in the US offer remedial reading

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QME6C6XTBAYFEJP2GYDH3VQEMU Beat

    No one can travel the speed of light. No one can invent something that can travel and beat the speed of light or faster than the speed of light.

    you can invent something that can Chase the speed of light but cannot over take it.

    • Modavations

      nEVER SAY NEVER.iF YOU’RE BORN TODAY AND HAVE MONEY,YOU’LL BE ABLE TO LIVE FOREVER.As for oil,don’t worry kids.In 50 years we’ll be teleporting

  • Modavations

    tHE gREEKS FIGURED THIS OUT 2500 years ago.They had the word Atom,Electron,Nucleus.I won’t mention Pythagrian and Euclidian mathematics

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      They did not have the electron or the nucleus.  The word “atom,” in Greek, meant indivisible.

  • Modavations

    Riddle me this:::::From Whenst the first particle

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Vacuum fluctuations.

      • Modavations

        Riddle me this::::
        From Whenst the first Vacuum fluctuation

  • Modavations

    The shuttle leaves orbit at about 25000mph and travels at 15,000mph.The speed of light is 186,000miles per second.To reach the closest star(I’ll grab my calculator),it would take 27kazillion years.They better break the speed of light.

  • Modavations

    My ex said I had an animated dream involving Bug Boy and the Neutrinos.Could this be significant.

  • Modavations

    And finally you “Silly’s”,of course we can beat tjhe barrier.Scotty used to got the Enterprise up to Warp 10.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QME6C6XTBAYFEJP2GYDH3VQEMU Beat

      Warp speed doesn’t mean it can beat the Speed of light.

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        In the “Star Trek” world, warp speed is faster than light.  It uses subspace to shorten the distance between two points.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QME6C6XTBAYFEJP2GYDH3VQEMU Beat

          I am a Star Wars fan.

          • Modavations

            Hans Solo regularly made the “LEAP”.fURTHER PROOF it can be done.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QME6C6XTBAYFEJP2GYDH3VQEMU Beat

    They said when you study Math there is no other subject to study. it is the language of the Universe. understand Math you will understand the Universe.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      I disagree with that idea.  There are other valid fields of study that give us different kinds of truths.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QME6C6XTBAYFEJP2GYDH3VQEMU Beat

        YOU ALWAYS DISAGREE WITH ME. nothing knew. once in awhile you should be supportive. just like how you support your kids.

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

          I should be supportive just to be supportive?  I support only when I agree.

          • Anonymous

            I support that.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QME6C6XTBAYFEJP2GYDH3VQEMU Beat

            thank you John.

          • Modavations

            Don’t worry kid,we’re looking after you,but you’re doing fine.When they call you Troll we’ll intervene.

  • ripped-off tax payer

    I remember when it was the U.S. that had all the breakthroughs in science.  Now all those breakthroughs are coming from outside the U.S.

    We can thank our failed public schools for that!!

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      And Congress for killing particle accelerators in this country, along with many other scientific projects.

      • Modavations

        We lost Nasa because it was nothing more the Welfare for Nerds.

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

          Would we have the computers that we’re using here without the space program?  NASA is an example of welfare–making well–that works.

          • Modavations

            Nasa hasn’t had a new idea in 30 years.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Do these neutrinos explain why DISQUS tells me that 128 of 127 comments are showing?

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QME6C6XTBAYFEJP2GYDH3VQEMU Beat

      Be supportive it will make life on earth easier.

      • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

        Or increasingly delusional

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QME6C6XTBAYFEJP2GYDH3VQEMU Beat

          probably your arrogant comments are more delusional than your intention for claim to fame on message board. pathetid human being get a life dude or find a job.

          • Modavations

            Dude,quit the name calling.That’s what lefties do when they can’t carry the day,intellectually.Everytime you’re called a name,means your riposte has hit home.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QME6C6XTBAYFEJP2GYDH3VQEMU Beat

            I just hate people who don’t have any positive Emotional Intelligence

          • Terry Tree Tree

            ???

        • http://www.facebook.com/ericnewberg Eric Reed Lorentzen-Newberg

          Ignore the crazy, man, just ignore the crazy.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QME6C6XTBAYFEJP2GYDH3VQEMU Beat

    For the person who asked me what is Singapore Math. here it isExpress:(a) 0.056 75 correct to 3 decimal places.(b) 4.952 correct to 2 significant figures.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QME6C6XTBAYFEJP2GYDH3VQEMU Beat

      this is elementary singapore math. in America they give you test for counting how many dinosours in the box or fill in the blank with the missing even or add number.

  • notafeminista

    Humankind having another “Galileo moment.”    Too cool!

    • Modavations

      Don’t forget Copernicus

      • notafeminista

        One thousand pardons sir ;)    My Galileo bias shows.

    • http://www.dogoodgauge.org The Do Good Gauge

      Few would threaten to burn you at the stake for teaching children about the earth’s position in the solar system.     They would only take your vote, scorn you as an atheist, prevent you from getting a job or teaching the kids, maybe call you a pedofile.    No unsightly carnage or horrendous smell of burning flesh, yuk.   We are much more efficient in dealing with religious descent in our civil society.    We just push such thought to the depths of solitude.

      • Modavations

        This is your mission lad.Find out how many pedophile priests were Democrats and how many were Repubs.Remember,brevity,brevity.Your commas are better,but cadence is off.Dissent not descent

        • http://www.dogoodgauge.org The Do Good Gauge

          Thank you Master Wannabe Modavations, young grasshopper seeks to learn from your knowledge of words.   (All kidding a side, thank you for pointing out the spelling mistakes)

          In theory most priest are Democrats, in practice the wedge issue of abortion shows the true voting loyalties.   Now if we are speaking of a Shaolin Priest, definitely they have the wisdom of a Democrat.

          Weighing Pedophilia association of priest to the Democratic and Republican party is a stretch.    Way more so than saying it is a conservative tactic of discrediting an opponents argument. 

          • Modavations

            How bout percentages,then

      • notafeminista

        No, they’d burn me at the stake for teaching them about God.  You so miss the point.  Each.and.every.time.

        • notafeminista

          One “so”.  Dreadful editing that.

          • http://www.dogoodgauge.org The Do Good Gauge

            A new social media interface would not allow grammar, spelling, and punctuation from distracting understanding.    A new media would allow others to politely suggest correction in the background and prevent future readers from wading through gallons of comments addressing something which has been corrected.

            I welcome all suggestions to correct mistakes.   Not only is it descent, it is necessary for civil understanding. Though they need not clutter the space of a social media. Hopefully the host of this blog will start to understand  my recommendation.

        • http://www.dogoodgauge.org The Do Good Gauge

          Your not thinking on a scalar model.   Try taking velocity and magnitude into consideration.    Here’s another sizeable point.

          • notafeminista

            And so it begins.   “You’re” by the way…the contraction of “you are” ..rather than the possessive. 
            The priests and the Church wanted to punish Galileo because he said ‘what if’….the atheists/agnostics/realists/so-called scientists want to punish the faithful because they say ‘what if. ’  The Church in the 15th c. and the scientists in the 21st c. don’t like being questioned.

          • http://www.dogoodgauge.org The Do Good Gauge

            Thanks again.   Would have caught that one with additional focus.  Chalk it up to sloth.  I’m doing pretty good with envy.    Working on pride today.   

            Honest to God, I’ve had the Nova documentary of Galileo Galilei in my DVD player for over a week.  One hour three minutes into the program doesn’t make me an expert. But my take is that little has changed between the competition of science and religion over the past 400 years.    Science has and still remains a sanctuary for inquiry and fundamentalist still have too high a voice in the interpretation of scripture.    

            It vexes me when they would constrain science by the authority of the
            Scriptures, and yet do not consider themselves bound to answer reason
            and experiment.

            Galileo Galilei

            The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing.
            Albert Einstein

            When ignorance lurks, so too do the frontiers of discovery and imagination.
            Neil deGrasse Tyson

            We’ve learned from experience that the truth will come out. Other
            experimenters will repeat your experiment and find out whether you were wrong or right. Nature’s phenomena will agree or they’ll disagree with
            your theory. And, although you may gain some temporary fame and
            excitement, you will not gain a good reputation as a scientist if you
            haven’t tried to be very careful in this kind of work. And it’s this
            type of integrity, this kind of care not to fool yourself, that is
            missing to a large extent in much of the research in cargo cult science.

            Richard P. Feynman

            I’m going up stairs to watch the second half of the documentary.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Which God?  Odin, Zeus, Yaweh, The Great Pedophile, Wall Street banksters, Power?

          • notafeminista

            It doesn’t matter.  Pick one.

  • Stonemonkey

    What does this contradiction of Einstein’s speed of light in conjunction with EPR Entanglement observations?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QME6C6XTBAYFEJP2GYDH3VQEMU Beat

    here a Singapore question for Gregg Camp. answer this

    The highest common factor and lowest common multiple of 2 numbers are 8 and 408 respectively. If one of the numbers is 24, find the other number.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QME6C6XTBAYFEJP2GYDH3VQEMU Beat

      Greg Camp the answer is 136. you’re too slow

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QME6C6XTBAYFEJP2GYDH3VQEMU Beat

    People like Greg Camp are one of those people who can write and speak good (not even great) english but when it comes to real problem solving the mind just shuts off. Robert Mcnamara was called a whiz kid because he solved the problems of the Vietnam war with numbers.

    • Modavations

      You are now experiencing how closed minded and parochial(?)the “left” can be.They believe in Free Speech ,as long as the Politboro approves

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QME6C6XTBAYFEJP2GYDH3VQEMU Beat

        problems solving and being SUPPORTIVE can win a war but ultimately lost the war in Vietnam. Because of the American people. That’s my explanation to the closed minded and parochial lefty people. sad to say it is true

        • Modavations

          Who lost the war?To this day Vietnam,Cambodia,Laos are trashed.Even semi-civilized Thailand is a giant whore house.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Which war in Vietnam?  The one to give the CIA control of the Golden Triangle poppy trade?  The war to replace a democracy with our own puppet?  The war to return the colony back over to France?  The war to make Bell Helicopter, Halliburton, and several other companies that helped or bought LBJ, RICH?   The war based on lies and exagerations, that cost tens of thousands of U.S. lives?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QME6C6XTBAYFEJP2GYDH3VQEMU Beat

    To those Left wing. Egalitarianism cannot guarantee a true democratic country even if you out run the speed of light.

    • Modavations

      They don’t want democracy.Peter Orzag was just complaining that he couldn’t get the budgets through, because there is too much Democracy.Sonny Perdue was going on about how congress should be dismissed for two years,so the Dems. can get something done.They never took the course on”checks and balances”

  • Modavations

    Off topic,off topic,but how ’bout this.The Rep.nominate Cain and we have Obama -Cain debates.I’d love to see a duel between “welfare blacks” and” laissez faire blacks”.That would super charge those tachyons allright.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Peter-Nozawa-Thurwachter/1003498190 Peter Nozawa Thurwachter

    Michio Kaku kept talking about how much of a nightmare it would be if we had to recalibrate everything.  Wouldn’t mean a whole lot of jobs created?  Shouldn’t we be rooting for Einstein to be wrong :)

  • Deven Phillips

    If, as according to current understanding, neutrinos are massless; how does their travelling faster than light violate special relativity? E=mc^2, but if mass is 0, then energy required to achieve that speed would be 0 as well.

    • Modavations

      They have weight.

      • Deven Phillips

        Aha! Found it: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/07/100712115104.htm

        • Modavations

          Picolo,picolo.

      • Johnl_19

        Mass – not weight.  Weight is in a gravitational field

  • Phil Freeman

    If these results hold up, could it lead to the long-awaited unification of gravity with the other fundamental forces? 

  • Ryan

    When the theory of relativity was formulated, the laws of physics of the time were merely “updated” with additional factors to make them work in “all” situations.
    Could this be a case where our current laws of phyics will simply be “updated” with this new information? Perhaps our current laws only work in the situations that we have studied so far, and we have now gone beyond that point, like Einstein did?

  • Miguel

    As we all know the closer to light speed you get the more massive you become. If neutrinos do travel faster than light, do they have mass to begin with, and what is this Higs Boson I’m hearing about?

  • Wayne

    I have a question. When studying physics in college (70′s) I understood particles to be like group delay, which are limited. However phase shift had the ability to act differently. So, coupled particles may be coupled by phase, which can move faster than time. If a particle is defined by group delay, it would be limited by speed of light, but if defined by phase shift, could be faster than speed of light.

    Is there a relation between the types of particles and their underlying base, either phase or group delay based?   

  • O’Sullivan

    Dear On Point,

    I like your show very much. However, the comments section has recently been taken hostage by some commentators who simply meander and meander wildly “Off Point”. Can you please audit the validity of comments to the page or else the comments section will cease to be educational and interesting.

    Thanking you

  • Miguel

    Should I merely log off now and read a book about this, because this blog is turning up great many unanswered questions

    • Terry Tree Tree

      LIFE is a great many unanswered questions!!   You logging off life too?

  • Sfo Bro Leo

    Can any one compute the supposed mass yet of a nutrino, which travels faster than the speed of light?  I mean, at the speed of light, its mass would increase to an infinite amount, right?  So at a greater velocity than light, does the “computed mass” jive with the “observed mass”?  Is this about physics or mathematics–or about the limits of what is observable?  No observation = No science, as we know it–right?

  • jo

    I am ordering the cassette of this show. I understood everything that was said, and, at the same time, I understood nothing. I want to share the wonderful show. Such articulate speakers on such a complicated subject.

    My husband’s cousin measured Mr. Einstein’s windows for drapes for the store where she worked. While I was listening to your show, I got tickled about that – surely Mr. Einstein would have had the knowhow to measure the windows himself.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Stories that I have read and heard of Einstein, said he often wore mis-matched socks and/or shoes.  He reportedly was so caught up in his theoretical world, that he often was not aware of much in the real world.

  • Michael Maurer

    When I heard that neutrinos could be faster then the speed of light, I think of space travel. Is there a possibility to travel faster then speed travel throw space if this is possible.

  • Jimstull1

    I pay my membership every year to nor in new York and I believe I need an I pod to listen to On Point as a download to I tunes??? I can’t find anyway except live broadcasts.

  • Jimstull1

    Sorry. Im ranting in the wrong place.

    • Jasoturner

      All rants are welcome…

  • Roy Karten

    Great show Tom ! As an artist I am often lulled to sleep by science but this is the good stuff–particle Physics–an almost magical realm that intrinsically attempts to answer the question “Who are we?” and “What is this universe made of?” Michio Kaku is great to hear too.

    Roy Karten
    Annapolis, Maryland

    • Ralph Palasek, Arlington VA

      BINGO!  I like to think that’s why we do anything on this tiny blue speck surrounded so much darkness.  Of course, Galileo notwithstanding, we still believe we are at the center of it all–like the famous cartoon on the cover of the New Yorker magazine.  WHOOOOPS!  Surely, it’s Capitol Hill that’s at the Center of the Known Universe….   (o;

  • Wm. James from Missouri

    Zeno’s  Dichotomy Paradox is an example or the  limitations of human perceptions. ( Zeno: A runner must go ½  the distance before it can go the full distance, but wait, it must go ¼ the distance to get to half the original distance … , finally it must go to the first point of the distance before it can get to the second point, but NO; the runner must go ½ the distance to the first point: Contradiction: There is no half distance to the FIRST point ! )
    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/paradox-zeno/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeno%27s_paradoxes

    I am quite aware of the Calculus and Cantor and Turing and …, but I am also aware of the double slit experiment ( Young’s experiment) ,, science still has not been able to explain this with the kind of certainty we would like. Relativity and quantum mechanics are difficult, indeed. I wonder if such problems are the result of our brains particular structure(s) and composition ! We are trying to unravel the mysteries of the universe with a large but fixed number of neurons and pre-wired circuits that are governed by “firing thresholds” (Sigmoid functions) , that is to say, “we think in chunks”. To make sense of the world we try to generalize patterns using mathematical  induction and thereby make reasoned assumptions about things called infinity and talk of probabilities as if they were certainty’s.  In the Calculus we use phrases like “ as the Norm goes to zero “, but where does a Plank length fit in ? I often wonder how different our science would be if we could reconfigure our brains at will!

    • Jasoturner

      I think Sagan had some interesting comments along these lines.  He looked at the number of neural connections in the brains of chimps and the brains of us.  But then he asked, what physically would prevent a creature from having neural density two or three times higher than us?  Nothing.  Would we seem, to these creatures, as primitive as a chimp (or pig or whatever you want to pick) seems to us?  Would they have conceptual capabilities beyond our ability to even imagine?  These are very good questions.  As was your comment.

      This question also reveals the hubris that is inherent in our claiming to be made “in gods image”.  Why should a god settle for a trillion neural connections (made up number, but you get the point) when five trillion are equally achievable with only modest increase in size?  Indeed.

      • Modavations

        How “homocentric”(is that a work,perhaps speciesist).Self awareness is just a survival tactic.Turtle,Sharks,D.Flies,haven’t had to change in 200million years.Natural selection!!!!Republicans are Neitschzes’(?)oberman.

        • Jasoturner

          I’m not sure what this means but I like the energy.  Thumbs Up!

      • Wm. James from Missouri

        Let me take the discussion in a different direction. Let’s assume that we are on the right track and will someday understand the physics of the small and large, alike. This would imply that are brains are sufficient to understand the universe in full. Would this evidence signal the end of ( the need for further ) evolution ? Would it end or dampen the Flynn Effect, or the need for artificial intelligence ( beyond any trivial gains in creature comforts ) .

        • Jasoturner

          I think not.  For one thing, higher intelligence is not the “goal” of evolution.  It is just one outcome of evolution, which we are fortunately to be on the receiving end of.  So evolution will not cease.  We might even evolve to become dumber, who knows?

          It also seems to me that even if we “completely” understood physics and space-time and all that stuff, the complexity of the real world, with it’s interactive complications, is not fully knowable.  Consider the complexity of modeling climate, or the markets, or turbulent flow.  The sensitivity of these models to initial conditions (our initial assumptions) is so exquisite that we can at best generate possible outcomes.  We do not “know” in the conventional sense, and we probably never can, what the “right” answer is to one of these models.

          • Wm. James from Missouri

            I am not convinced that there is no teleological force behind evolution. Even Darwin did not know the mechanism behind evolution but assumed there must be one (DNA).  Your comment about complex systems and initial conditions is on target though. Thanks for reminding me. ———— Also, a passing thought,—— scientist have been able to bring a photon of  light to a full stop. Is it possible to bring a neutrino to a full stop ?

  • Wm. James from Missouri

    I have never heard anyone explain what happens to entropy in a theoretical rocket ship that is moving at the speed of light ? Please illuminate ( at neutrino speed ) J

    • Jasoturner

      If it is not burning fuel to maintain speed, the entropy should not change.  If it is burning fuel, entropy is increasing.  The easy way to figure this is to look at reversibility.  Is it possible that a rocket ship would naturally extract miscellaneous random atoms from space and that they would compress into the rocket?  Nope.  Ergo entropy increase.

      • Wm. James from Missouri

        The following was clipped from : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy

        “ …For isolated systems, entropy never decreases. This fact has several important consequences in science: first, it prohibits “perpetual motion” machines; and second, it implies the arrow of entropy has the same directionality as the arrow of time. Increases in entropy correspond to irreversible changes in a system, because some energy is expended as waste heat, limiting the amount of work a system can do. … “  I give this reference to help me elaborate on my original question concerning the hypothetical rocket ship, above.

        It would seem that a space traveler traveling at the speed of light would not only seem not to age relative to a stationary observer but would also not be affected by ANY form of entropy relative to a stationary observer. Further more, it would seem that all physical processes would be put on hold relative to a stationary observer and that the traveler would not be a prisoner of ANY kind of universal constant. Is this thinking correct ? If so, are these type of questions useful in trying to understand what goes on INSIDE a particle moving at the speed of light ? Would this unusual behavior be a factor in determining how we perceive a particle moving at the speed of light and any quantum mechanical spooky phenomena ?

  • NonSense

    “While I’m probably going to lose all of my string field theory funding, all hell is going to break loose, so don’t forget to recalibrate your atomic bombs and reactors.”  – Michio Cuckoo

  • Seigo Izumo

    Hi Tom, this is the most exciting and stimulating radio program I ever heard! A fresh and fundamental topic, absolutely superb guests and easy to understand conversations without dumbing down the content at all. Excitement of you and Michio Kaku (who was absolutely fantastic) was palpable and made me so excited as well. I was also impressed by the extremely intellectural questions from the audience. It is great to hear about a topic of fundamental science in such an enjoyable format. There are lots of coverage on the radio in general on such topics as politics and economy. But we hear very little about exciting science. I hope you will consider more programs like this one in the future. Job well done! 

  • http://twitter.com/dotsandlines Drew Gilmore

    I’m with the caller who wonders why Michio Kaku thinks iPads and GPS will have to be ‘recalibrated’ if neutrinos turn out to be faster than light. Certainly we’d have to rethink a lot of physics but the fact is these things work *right now* regardless of how much we understand the universe. Kaku may be smart in many ways but he’s a sloppy science explainer, and this isn’t the first time I’ve thought so.

  • Ed

    I’m not so impressed by the willingness of science to re-evaluate all of its theories on the basis of one experiment: this is just intellectual honesty, which governs all areas of research, even theology.

    See Kuhn ‘The structure of scientific revolutions’ - a whole change in the theory might take place, though it would take a lot more evidence.

    • Jasoturner

      I think the history of the Dark Ages would serve as a potential counterpoint to your first paragraph.  I also am unaware of any theological research based on experimentation and the scientific method.  I think interpretation (or reinterpretation) of sacred texts is more like it.  Which makes it more like alchemy than chemistry.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      If theology is so intellectually honest, why are the Catholics still protecting and hiding child-molesters and child-abusers, as they have for hundreds of years?

      • notafeminista

        See you are still taking God to task for the actions of man.  Why not place responsiblity squarely where it belongs?

        • http://www.dogoodgauge.org The Do Good Gauge

          Like science, theology is a system of study.

          I read ttt’s post as a charge against man’s interpretation.    There is much wisdom in the Bible to cherish, why do many use it as a weapon against a fellow citizen? 

          • notafeminista

            I would absolutely agree – given all that there is in the Bible to cherish, why do many find those who do cherish to be somehow lacking intellectually?

          • http://www.dogoodgauge.org The Do Good Gauge

            I can only speak for myself.   But when others push their belief on another it’s a common reflex to fight back with reason.   My conjecture is the people in the majority you speak of have a majority with a desire and respect for a hire spirit.    It is the interpretation of another at conflict.    Refusal to back up a hypothesis in reason is regarded as lacking intellect.    Anger arises on the part of the one using reason because there is no bi-directional argument, the discussion is over.   This brings on anger from the part of reason invoking disrespect. 

            Maybe the problem is not religion, maybe the problem is disrespect.

          • notafeminista

            You bring up an interesting point.  Atheists time and again declare with significant certainty that there is no God (or god) and yet when pressed for substantiation of their assertion, the fallback position is that one cannot prove a negative.   So.  Is this a lack of respect?  A lack of intellectual integrity? Perhaps a lack of reason? 

          • http://www.dogoodgauge.org The Do Good Gauge

            99% agreement.  Disrespect comes from walking away from someone’s point of view with an opinion of discuss and turpitude not haven fully examined what they were saying.

          • A.H.

            No one can say with certainty that there is no god, or not an infinite number of infinitely different gods. Nothing that is supernatural can ever provide evidence of existence because the supernatural is outside of natural processes, anything involving atoms and energy, dark matter, and dark energy. Because the supernatural does not involve natural processes, no one can have a supernatural organ to communicate with the supernatural (what would that organ be made of, exempting atoms and all known sources of energy?) or a machine that measures supernatural whatever (you can’t measure something without first knowing what you are measuring). All statements about the supernatural, or interacting with the supernatural, are wholly forever and ever, personal opinion without fact.

          • http://www.dogoodgauge.org The Do Good Gauge

            Agreed.   God cannot be measured.   How about good?  Could mere
            mortals develop a Do Good Gauge as a moral compass?  Could a gauge
            motivate competition for a higher level of good?

          • notafeminista

            Additionally, when you say “when others push their belief on another it’s a common reflex to fight back with reason.”  (A point with which I disagree, but that is a separate conversation.)  Do you refer to solely religious beliefs here or perhaps those of a more secular nature as well? 
            A great many people believe that Man has caused significant warming of the Earth through the use of fossil fuels and seek to (ultimately) radically alter economies and freedom of choice based on that belief.  When presented with reasonable and reasoned evidence to the contrary those believers become as unpleasant and closed-minded as any atheist might claim a fundamentalist Christian to be.  Your thoughts?

          • http://www.dogoodgauge.org The Do Good Gauge

            I agree.   There must be a better way to examine political and religious discourse than currently presented through media, politics, and the pulpit.  

            I will refrain from discussing the evidence of man’s lack of concern for crimes against nature.    But will agree the arguments from those perceived as being non Christian are lacking.    There is an arrogance and ignorance in the scientific community to explain.    It boils down to belief.   Not in God, but in theory.   Unfortunately the scientific community lacks many Albert Einstein‘s, Carl Sagan‘s, or Richard Feynman‘s to share a respectful point of view.  

          • notafeminista

            No, I think you are correct on both sides.  It boils down to belief.  The arrogance is Man’s whether he is a physicist or a theologian. To presume to know the mind of God or God’s “intent” takes a special kind of arrogance.  To assume we can destroy that which we did not create (and have a breathtakingly limited knowledge of) also takes a special kind of arrogance.

          • Modavations

            Christians and Jews embrace Eastern mysticism because it’s currently chic.Also,the first thing the commies do is forbid religion.You pray at the “alter of the state”.

          • http://www.dogoodgauge.org The Do Good Gauge

            W S C 2

          • http://www.dogoodgauge.org The Do Good Gauge

            Riddle: Hint, clicking is not the answer. The solution requires moral courage

            Brevity

          • A.H.

            Theology is a study of mythology, not of science. Any wisdom someone can gain from positing the opinions of Demeter, Loki, tian, or the Mayan Jaguar gods, can be just as easily gained from westerns and romance novels.

        • guest

          God is not being taken to task, Catholics are.

      • Modavations

        What percent of perv.priests are Dem.,as opposed to republican??

  • http://www.dogoodgauge.org The Do Good Gauge

    I apologize for diminishing the value of tracking neutrinos.  Especially in the pursuit of science and truth.   I look forward to a program dedicated to the science of argument theory. The blog of this topic demonstrates how an ill directed social media tool promotes poor argumentation.

    Though Einstein did not study argument theory, many of his quotes are tangent to its value. Now, as much as ever, humanity requires a better understanding of how to effectively promote solutions for society. This requires understanding an argument and how to use it in sharing a thought.

    Science is an approximation.   Typically there are more than one answer.  Truth or right are not as important as understanding the winner is chosen based on a thorough knowledge of available information and the quest to explore new frontiers.

    The world is being pushed to believe in a scalar representation of truth.   Velocity and magnitude are discounted while the coordinate system widens.

    The media and scientific community needs to see the science in the dialog and discourse of society.    Funding or not, focus should be placed in researching better tools to promote civil solution for society. Argument Theory should be opened as a talking point to explore the opportunity for new social media tools.

    • notafeminista

      Science and faith are not mutually exclusive – and that is the point I am making, it is the point Galileo made lo so many years ago.  For a modern day example I point you to Dr. Francis Collins.  While he may not be a physicist, I think as former Director of the Human Genome Project and current Director of the National Institutes of Health, we can agree he is a serious scientist.  He also happens to be an evangelical Christian.

      You say it yourself with your Einstein quote:  “The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing.”

      Failure to recognize and/or embrace at least the idea of the role religion and faith play in this world is a failure to be curious.  Instead those of faith are ridiculed and denied jobs.  (Look it up. Several serious and thoughtful scientists have won lawsuits because their employers [or potential employers] didn’t appreciate their position on Intelligent Design.)

      • http://www.dogoodgauge.org The Do Good Gauge

        Several of my essays touch on the topic of science and religion.    It is very difficult toting the line between religion and reason.   When I say science, I’m talking about the process.   Intolerance is widely available on both sides when people get involved. 

        When it comes to religion, I hope for a higher spirit.  I try to live by the guidance of Jesus Christ.   Though I don’t discount the worth of Gandhi, Buddha, Martin Luther King, and many others.    I would also claim that I have attended church as much as many, though like Benjamin Franklin would rather spend my Sundays reading an inspirational book.     

        Religion and the Scientific Hero

        • notafeminista

          (In terms of both brevity and laziness I address this to both Gauge and Eric Newberg)
          It strikes that Mr. Pinker in his efforts to end “animistic thinking” might also be displaying a lack of curiosity and openmindedness.  That ‘what if?’ quality.
          I’m not sure if you are more upset with “the Church” (as defined by Man) or with God – in that God limits us not at all, we are limited only by ourselves.  If you are upset with “the Church” then perhaps are you are put out with your fellow man who disagrees with your particular journey or the promotion thereof.  He has every right to do so, as do you his.  What neither of you have the right to do, is to limit the other in the promotion of yours.

          • notafeminista

            In his own words….via PBS.  Decide for yourselves…

            http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/questionofgod/voices/collins.html

          • http://www.dogoodgauge.org The Do Good Gauge

            In as much as I seek discussion for new social media tools promoting solution and connecting individuals with similar motivation, I see the value in this David Bohm style of dialogue.

          • http://www.facebook.com/ericnewberg Eric Reed Lorentzen-Newberg

            “How is it that we, and all other members of our species, unique in the animal kingdom, know what’s right and what’s wrong? In every culture one looks at, that knowledge is there.Where did that come from? I reject the idea that that is an evolutionary consequence, because that moral law sometimes tells us that the right thing to do is very self-destructive.” -Collins

            I read the same CS Lewis book and came to the opposite conclusions.  Mr. Collins is confusing proximate and ultimate causes of morality, and confusing how evolution functions.  As long as on average, our moral intuitions increase a gene’s ability to replicate, evolution can favor them.  (And I think clearly in a social species it does.)  That on occasion a person can act against his or her immediate self interest is irrelevant. 

            Does openmindedness mean entertaining any idea, no matter how much evidence is against it or how implausible it might be?  Openmindedness ought to mean, in my opinion, following wheresoever the evidence leads, no matter our personal opinions on the matter.

            Personally, and I understand many other atheists feel the same, religion to me is the antithesis of mystery and that “what if” quality.  It kills inquiry and questioning.  Fundamental to religion is the idea of faith, which, to quote Mark Twain, is “believing what you know ain’t true”.  It is a rejection of evidence, it is the ultimate argument from authority.  If you ask, “Why are we here?”  and the answer is God, what have you learned?  How has your understanding increased?  How do we even define God to intelligibly talk about it?  How could you ever know whatever attributes you ascribe to him/her/it are true?

            Inasmuch as religion can inspire people to dream and look beyond themselves and their parochial desires, great.  But all of that can be had without the supernaturalism and superstition that accompanies religion.  Thomas Jefferson excised from his Bible all of the supernatural bits.  Let us continue is his tradition.

          • notafeminista

            Man kills inquiry and questioning.  Not God.  What do we know are the “supernatural bits” of the Bible exactly?  Oftentimes I hear the example of the burning bush as being wholly unrealistic – yet we know that spontaneous combustion does occur.    I hear that a great flood covering the whole earth as being wholly unrealistic – yet we know from our archeologists and paleontologists that yes, water did cover a good portion of the earth at one time.
            And yes openmindedness means just that – to consider all options even in the face of contradicting  evidence.  Good lord man, that is EXACTLY what the good scientists at CERN and my man Galileo did.  They considered “what if” despite an abundance of evidence to what they knew.  Why would anyone…anyone…limit themselves otherwise.  After all, we “knew” 150 years ago that washing our hands before performing surgery wasn’t a good idea.  C’mon….have a little faith ;)

            By the way, it might very well be contradictory to say that religion can be inspirational and kill questioning at the same time.

          • A.H.

            Actually, there is zero experimental or tested scientific evidence for spontaneous combustion, only ignorance as to how someone burned. Plus, melted glacier water has never come close to covering some or most mountains.  Galileo was fighting the Catholic church and those who quoted scripture as science, not true scientists. The Copernican Theory was published in 1543 and Galileo published his support for the theory in a letter in 1613. Galileo had science, belief with evidence, and fought against faith, belief without evidence. Galileo did not fight against science.  Being open-minded to  everything makes simple conversation, much less true investigation and discovery of fact, useless. Open-minded and backed by facts is utterly and completely different than open-minded and backed by no facts. Religion doesn’t discover facts, scientific experiment does. Both science and religion can inspire someone’s search for truth, but truth is only truth if it is back by fact.

          • Sawman36

            “Fundamental to religion is the idea of faith, which, to quote Mark Twain, is “believing what you know ain’t true”.”

            be careful with your epistemology. how do you know what is true.?..how do you know that you know what is true and false?

            Remember, Immanuel
            Kant disproves the three major philosophical proofs for the existence of God…
            but he still says faith based on reasonable evidence is rational for the individual.

          • notafeminista

            Pardon me, in referring to ending animistic thinking.  The sentence reads as though Mr. Pinker is on a mission of his own to accomplish that…ha!

        • Terry Tree Tree

          Well said!!

          • http://www.dogoodgauge.org The Do Good Gauge

            Thank you for the complement. How about the revised version of the post?    Read the italicized paragraph at the end and follow the instructions before reading the rest.

      • Modavations

        I think Darwin was religious.

        • Jasoturner

          Much to his discomfort (he feared freaking out his wife), he increasingly lost his religious beliefs as he grew older.  For Darwin, this was disquieting, not a triumphant insight.  He probably would have liked to have remained devout, but he was not able to do so.  Or so they say.

          • Modavations

            too much partying with the island girls,me thinks

      • http://www.facebook.com/ericnewberg Eric Reed Lorentzen-Newberg

        It depends on what you mean by “mutually exclusive”.  Clearly you can be religious and be a scientist.  But you cannot assume supernatural causes and do science, ie, science must assume methodological naturalism.  And inasmuch as religions do make empirical claims, which can and have been disproven (for example we know there was never a bottleneck of only two people in human history, so a literal Adam and Eve is out of the question), there is a conflict.  Basically, literal belief in religious texts are mutually exclusive with science.

        “Collins has said that he came to accept the Trinity, and the truth that Jesus is the son of God, when he was hiking and came upon a beautiful triple waterfall. Now, the idea that nature contains private coded messages from a supernatural being to an individual person is the antithesis of the scientific (indeed, rational) mindset. It is primitive, shamanistic, superstitious. The point of the scientific revolution was to do away with such animistic thinking.” -Steven Pinker

        http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2009/07/11/steven-pinker-on-francis-collins/

        • Sawman36

           ”But you cannot assume supernatural causes and do science, ie, science must assume methodological naturalism.”

          watch it there. does quantum theory work perfectly although no one understands exactly how? Quantum effects are not understood. Science admits the currently
          unknowable nature of physical reality….
          we don’t call THAT uncertainty superstitious, do we?
          Not mutually exclusive…dig deeper into symbology  and keep in your mind the historical and cultural context of what you read.
          if a beautiful natural environment allows you
          feelings and associated thoughts of an expansive nature…well, why not? you are, after all of this earth.

    • http://www.dogoodgauge.org The Do Good Gauge

      Another sad state of blogs and social media.    By the time you articulate a thought more worthy of discussion everyone has moved to the next days topic.   If you are fortunate to get the thought right the first time, it is pushed to obscurity in the depths of the blog.    Oh, well.   There is always tomorrow.   Maybe.

      • Modavations

        Pay attention to this lady.She can write.

        • waldenthreenet

          Celtic American Cafe Twin Inter-Faith Blog Metro DC. Radio Heritage East meet West .A “bridge” to arts, music & science.   http://cosmicdancemv.blogspot.com

          Avi Dey
          Tweeter ID:
          waldenthreenet

          • waldenthreenet

            How many people, scientist or artist (specially musicians) can claim to have been able to break out of the life long prison imparted by our “genes” and “culture” ?  Only a very few, gven the cultural barriers of modern America.  Cosmic Dance Mystic Voices http://cosmicdancemv.blogspot.com/

      • Terry Tree Tree

        I, at least, go back and visit past comments, from time to time.

  • Modavations

    Don’t count your chickens.I’d run these tests a few times.The guys at Haldren do good work,so say my technical staff.Tachyons are hypothetical(of course Einstein is theory, that has survived the “test of time”)and many think they go faster the light.They’re intermediate state particles.However,big bang-big smang.From whenst the first particle.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      The staff of a gem-buyer are particle-physicists?  Why?

      • Modavations

        That would be my father in law,He’s a pofessor of Nukes at ………..

  • Jasoturner

    Wait a minute.  Didn’t Einstein describe entanglement “spooky action at a distance” because it seemed to violate the limit of speed of light?  And didn’t the theory of relativity resolve this by employing space-time warpage or something?  So maybe the particles did get there faster than the speed of light in normal space time, but not exceeding the speed of light passing through a space-time warp.  So they took a shortcut we have no way of seeing.  Oh yeah, I’m fishing here.  This stuff is way above my level.  But it is pretty cool stuff to think about.

  • waldenthreenet

    Anyone has another “Neutrino Joke” to share ?   Wow !

    How about the looking further for those “Tachyon” while learning more about these Muon Neutrino cosmic particles that may be faster than speed of light ?  Yoru Twit most welcome !

     Avi Dey  Twitter ID: waldenthreenet

  • Abe Bass

    The only thing that can go faster than “C” is “Rumor to Media”  by crook researchers who want  “$”  to continue their research in this tough economy.
    Speed of light is limited because of speed of time. If you go faster than light, it means you are going faster than the speed of time, this implies that you would  go to the past time & exit our world –you will disappear. Then any talk about this situation is philosophy.

    • http://www.dogoodgauge.org The Do Good Gauge

      One of many possibilities.     Though it is refreshing hearing the media speech of science rather than politics.

      Funny thing about Galileo is his final trial was pushed by Pope Urban the VIII who dearly enjoyed his pursuit in the understanding of astronomy.   The drain and effects of the Thirty Year War pushed Urban to sacrifice Galileo to appease those with focus on the war.

      Another example of how the economy of war trumps the pursuit of truth and justice.

  • Anonymous²

    it is not impossible for something to move faster then the speed of light, it is only impossible for something to move faster then the speed of light relative to anything and maintain interactivity.  this is why it is part of the theory of “relativity” those with some know look over the formulas again and use youre critical thinking, not just your number crunchers!

  • Darmstrong

    OK…. A beautiful Photon meets this handsome Neutrino on the street. They hit it off and decides to go have a drink at the local. The Neutrino has to wait in line and pay a cover to get in. The beautiful Photon walks right in and meets the neutrino at the bar. The neutrino then complains and says way do I have to wait and pay cover? The Photon then asks Einstein the bar tender and he points to the wall and says it’s the law…E=mc2.

  • Jana Brumbaugh

    Maybe science should change their approach, maybe they should approach their field with the intent that there is no such thing as space or time.  That space and time exists only because of our experience and relativity to out existence and experience on Earth and/or we see time and space as real because of how we exist on Earth.

    • Sawman36

      Kant
      Advaita Vedanta
      inner truth
      Universe is Mind

  • your listener

    Love the last words Tom said: Cosmic, physics, like everything else, comes back to human ambitions.  

    Very interesting subject.

ONPOINT
TODAY
Apr 23, 2014
In this Thursday, Dec. 20, 2012, file photo, Chet Kanojia, founder and CEO of Aereo, Inc., shows a tablet displaying his company's technology, in New York. Aereo is one of several startups created to deliver traditional media over the Internet without licensing agreements. (AP)

The Supreme Court looks at Aereo, the little startup that could cut your cable cord and up-end TV as we’ve known it. We look at the battle. Plus: a state ban on affirmative action in college admissions is upheld. We’ll examine the implications.

Apr 23, 2014
Attendees of the 2013 Argentina International Coaching Federation meet for networking and coaching training. (ICF)

The booming business of life coaches. Everybody seems to have one these days. Therapists are feeling the pinch. We look at the life coach craze.

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Apr 22, 2014
This undated handout photo, taken in 2001, provided by the Museum of the Rockies shows a bronze cast of the Tyrannosaurus rex skeleton known as the Wankel T.rex, in front of the Museum of the Rockies at Montana State University in Bozeman, Mont. (AP)

As a new Tyrannosaurus Rex arrives at the Smithsonian, we’ll look at its home – pre-historic Montana – and the age when dinosaurs ruled the Earth.

 
Apr 22, 2014
Security forces inspect the site of a suicide attack in the town of Suwayrah, 25 miles (40 kilometers) south of Baghdad, Iraq, Monday, April 21, 2014. Suicide bombings and other attacks across Iraq killed and wounded dozens on Monday, officials said, the latest in an uptick in violence as the country counts down to crucial parliament elections later this month. (AP)

We look at Iraq now, two years after Americans boots marched out. New elections next week, and the country on the verge of all-out civil war.

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