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Educating Illegal Immigrants

Rick Perry says educate the children of illegal immigrants, all the way to college. Mitt Romney says no. We’ll talk with a Mexican-American brain surgeon who jumped the fence.

A protester blocks a street during a rally protesting Georgia's new immigration law on the Capitol steps Monday, June 28, 2011 in Atlanta.  (AP)

A protester blocks a street during a rally protesting Georgia's new immigration law on the Capitol steps Monday, June 28, 2011 in Atlanta. (AP)

Texas governor Rick Perry took a lickin’ at the GOP debates last week over his policy of helping children of illegal immigrants get a college education in Texas. Mitt Romney attacked that as “a $100,000 discount for illegal aliens.” Perry said you don’t “have a heart” if you won’t educate the kids. And they’ll be a “drag on our society.” Everybody was listening.

Dr. Alfredo Quinones has a special perspective. He jumped the fence. No papers. Now, he’s a Mexican-American brain surgeon.

This hour On Point: “Dr. Q,” illegal immigration, and the education issue.

-Tom Ashbrook

Guests

Alfredo Quinones-Hinojosa, a former illegal immigrant, he is now an Associate Professor of Neurosurgery, Neuroscience, Oncology and Cellular and Molecular Medicine, and the Director of the Brain Tumor Stem Cell Laboratory at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. He’s the author of “Becoming Dr. Q: My Journey from Migrant Farm Worker to Brain Surgeon.”

Jessica Vaughan, director of Policy Studies at the Center for Immigration Studies, a research organization that supports stricter immigration rules.

Tamar Jacoby, President and CEO of ImmigrationWorks USA, a national federation of small business owners that supports immigration reform.

From Tom’s Reading List

NPR “The life of Alfredo Quinones-Hinojosa, a former illegal immigrant, may sound like a movie script, but it is no fiction.”

Please follow our community rules when engaging in comment discussion on this site.
  • Cugoano

    Sorry Jose, your parents came here illegally, so we’re going step on your future and whatever dreams you may have. 

    • C.N.

      Exactly.What is even sadder is that many of these men come here illegaly across the border and leave behind wives,girlfriends and children,waiting for them to send for them but most never do.Many times they start new families in the U.S.,in several cases with american women and forget all about their lives and families in their home countries who then have to fend for themselves.I was reading a report that was saying how mexico and latina america was and is seeing a growing number of teens in gangs and pregnant,many of whom are the children of these men who many times have already started new families in the U.S. in several cases with american citizens.For those who say enforcing immigration laws wll break apart families,well by not enforcing immigration laws the U.S. has already contributed to breakup of many families in mexico and latin america.These men are irresponsable and the women who get in relationships with these men whose background,history and life they know very little or nothing about are many times desperate,low self esteem,or just naive and easy to mislead with sweet words.The globalist are determined to create this North American Union or Mex-Ameri-Canada,the next step to a one world government.Sadly many naive and misinformed mislead americans are doing alot to contribute to the globalist plan.Lastly the children on both sides of the border are going to pay the heaviest price because of the irresponsability of these men as well as the women who were foolish enough to get in relationships and have children with them.Sad!  

  • Cugoano

    Sorry Jose, your parents came here illegally, so we’re going step on your future and whatever dreams you may have. 

  • Hidan

    Least this is something I can agree on with Perry, Romney once again is saying anything he can to try and get elected.

    Punishing the children of illegals is beyond immoral

    • Edward

      No, it isn’t.  See?

  • ripped-off tax payer

    Stop feeling sorry for the over-pampered illegal aliens. 

    They all work under the table, they don’t pay state or federal taxes, and the women stay at home, give birth to ‘Anchor Babies’, and draw welfare and food stamps.

    The illegal aliens have got it made, courtesy of the the law abiding, tax-payers.

    • Jim978

      This is what “they all” are doing?

      Let’s start with taxes.  Immigrants who are hoping to stay in this country are very often paying income taxes (since this increases the chances of getting permanent status).  The IRS even issues tax id numbers non-citizens can use.  In addition, these folks pay sales taxes, gas taxes, federal excise taxes, Social Security taxes (if they are employees rather than self-employed), and real estate taxes (directly if they own, indirectly if they rent).

      Do some work under the table?  Sure!  Is this unique to undocumented aliens?  Of course not.  The best estimate is that at least 50% of self-employed Americans under-report their income for tax purposes.  Isn’t that a burden on taxpayers?  Absolutely.  If I, as a taxpayer, am going to have to pay more because someone else isn’t paying what is owed, I’d rather go after the high income earner who cheats us out of substantial taxes rather than the minimum wage worker who may not earn enough in a year to owe any taxes to begin with.

      • ripped-off taxpayer

        All the illegals aliens that I’ve ever known (and I used to live in Southern, CA.), bragged about how they didn’t pay state, federal or social security taxes, and how their wives stayed at home, and had ‘Anchor Babies’.

        You need to start getting some accurate information Sherlock.

  • Rghoyt1

    Yes, he’s a brain surgeon and I’ve seen him on some shows doing great work. What if he became an astronaut or pro basketball player?  Does that make breaking the law of this country OK?

    If he’s that smart he should have figured out how to enter the U.S. or any other country with respect for their legal system. If I save 10 people it doesn’t make my killing one OK.

    Seems the two points don’t match up to each other – one does NOT make the other OK – becoming what makes breaking our law OK? I’m a war time veteran and I don’t appreciate people breaking the law in the country I said I give my life for if need be!!!!

  • William

    We should look at this from the standpoint of not encouraging or aiding human trafficking rather than helping children of illegal immigrants. Sure, it is nice for Gov. Perry to say it is the “decent” thing to do by giving illegal immigrants in state tuition rates, but that is just another program that encourages more human trafficking into this country.

  • JustSayin

    Only brain surgeons jump the fence… That’s a relief! I knew this would be a balanced program.

    • Thinker!

      LOL, are any of their programs balances?  Caveat emptor.

      • Tina

        Yes, they are!

  • Gregg

    Perry says if we educate illegal aliens they can contribute because they will be qualified for jobs it’s illegal for them to have. It makes perfect sense.

    • JustSayin

      I guess illegals aren’t going to do the jobs Americans don’t want to do.

    • Thinker!

      Also, we educate them and they get jobs (let’s say their is amnesty) then new mexicans come and take their place as landscapers, construction works etc.  Move em up and make room for new ones.  

  • Markus

    I’m sympathetic to the illegals. If I were in their position, I’d probably do the same. But there are probably a few billion people in the world who would like to come here. Jobs, tuition breaks, welfare and housing in my state, medical care at our hospitals all encourage people to come here, have children (who are then citizens), and wait til the country makes them citizens. I’m not saying it’s easy on them, but compared to where they’re coming from, it’s worth the risk.
     
    So, the 12 to 14 million that are here illegally is one thing. But the millions that will come here (and are coming here) when we encourage them is scary. What I don’t understand is progressives who say they care about the unemployed, then encourage immigration which takes away jobs. Construction, restaurant work, gardening services are all jobs that the unemployed could be doing. Admittedly, these services would cost more, but it would be citizens getting the money. Maybe, it’s that progressives care more about the rest of the world, than they do citizens of the US.

  • Winston Smith

    The problem with illegal immigration into the U.S., especially from Mexico, is a problem largely created by the Democrats.  They controlled Congress for decades and refused to deal with the problem when it was somewhat manageable.  The reason is that legal citizens of Hispanic descent largely vote Democratic, and the Democrats did not want to risk alienating this block of voters.  Giving them the same rights as U.S. citizens (education, health care, etc. including children whose parents illegally immigrate to the U.S. just to give birth in the U.S. so their their children are automatic U.S. citizens) will only encourage more illegal immigration.

    Few if anyone is against orderly, legal immigration.  But the current situation is out of hand.  Just like to $15 trillion of U.S. federal debt, the problem almost beyond being manageable.

    I personally believe that given the magnitude of this problem as well as illegal drug smuggling into our country, that we should take our troops out of Europe (let them defend themselves instead of having us bankroll them) and the Middle East (let them blow each other up instead of our troops) and station a bunch of troops along our border so that we have sufficient resources to really prevent the problem from getting larger than it already is.  

    As far as those illegals who are already here, I believe that we should give them a fixed amount of time to adhere to the naturalization process.  Otherwise, they need to be deported since they are here ILLEGALLY.  And if it requires some racial profiling to identify illegal aliens from Mexico, so be it.  Very few illegal aliens from Mexico are Oriental in appearance, so let’s get real.  Just as doing a body search on an 80 year old woman or 2 month old infant at an airport is unlikely to catch a terrorist, you have to identify the most likely individuals to be violating the law.  I am quite willing to be stopped by the police and asked for my identification anytime.  I have nothing to hide.  Only those who have something to hide have something to worry about.

    • Cory

      Reagan’s amnesty.  Remember?

  • Cory

    We are so irrational and convoluted in this country when it comes to illegal immigrants.  Democrats want them here, and so do republicans.  Without a robust third party, there isn’t much to talk about.

  • MJ

    It was the Reagan administration (followed by the G.H.W. Bush administration), not democrats, who didn’t follow through with the laws and guidelines they created.  THUS, we still have the same problem today.  The Geo. W. Bush administration TRIED to broker a reasonable solution, but it was the republican congress that said NO WAY!

    The topic under discussion (at the debates) is whether children (now young adults) who have been residents of their respective states for up to 18 years, can go to college at ‘in-state’ costs.  I am NO fan of Gov. Perry’s, but that is what he was talking about…….not a free ride.  Texas law states people who have lived in the state for three years can attend college at that rate. 

    How cruel of a society we have become that we want to banish children, who have lived here all their lives (through no decision of their own), to countries where they don’t know anyone!  These are human beings (children) we just want to throw away.  I am ashamed of my fellow citizens who are so angry, they have no compassion. 

    Reagan and Bush brought it to this point by their actions 20 years ago………now we want to recant those actions and punish the children born at that time.

  • Hal from East Boston

         I am a Democrat. a liberal and a progressive, but my own country comes first. We have a right to know how many people are coming here and who they are. We not only have a right to regulate those numbers, we have an obligation to ourselves and our posterity to responsibly determine the ongoing sustainability of such things as living space, our water supply and the practical limits of waste disposal. We want to maintain a civilized and orderly society, with safe streets, quiet neighborhoods and a manageable civic life, and we especially want to avoid the many and dire perils of overpopulation.
         At least half the world’s population would swim to this country if the oceans weren’t so wide. We cannot save very much of that world, but we in the West can offer a model of sustainability profitable for other countries to follow, should they ever find ways to get their own affairs in order. The crafting of that model begins with controlling our own borders and striving for an optimal population.   

    • Guest-22

      I’m a liberal and progressive Democrat, too, but I think we need to remember that it’s past policies toward Latin America that have caused this problem. I’ve only traveled a bit there, but I saw massive desperation and appalling living conditions, created in part with the collusion of our government, which helped US corporations like United Fruit and arms dealers to prop up the oppressive regimes there. Meanwhile, we also provide a wonderful market for Latin America’s illegal drugs. We are very hypocritical if we believe we owe nothing to hard-working people who are for the most part law abiding and family oriented people once they manage to get here, at great personal peril.

      We need to take a long hard look at the Texas takeover of Mexican land 150 years ago and the policies that continue to let exploitation of the people of Latin America to continue.

      • Elektra4me

        With over thirty six million illegal’s living in the United States, with all  their children, they are also the consumers of the illegal drug trade. Of course they are not all of it, but why do we have to think of some white American teenager, or black kid as the “drug addicts” who are purchasing these drugs, that the poor Mexicans are shipping here? 

    • Shagata Ganai

      “Striving for an optimal population”.   Hmmm.

      Care to elaborate the number you have in mind, and what methods would be used to maintain this number?

  • Dan

    I’m an American citizen and I didn’t get a discount on my college education. I could only afford a small state school and my degree hasn’t made me a cent. I can’t afford to go back to school and I’m still making school loan payments.

    If we can’t take care of citizens, why the *&$# should we take care of illegal immigrants?!?!?

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    What percentage of illegal immigrants go on to become professionals like Dr. Quinones?

  • Joe in Boston

    I have no problem giving free education to illegal citizens if we also offer that opportunity to our own citizens. Who’s to say that there aren’t poor children in Arkansas, Missouri or any other state in our country, who given the chance, would go on to do great things for our society.

    • BHA in Vermont

      The specific case, in Texas, isn’t free college, it is in-state price.

      However, my leanings are: If you come here through the front door, welcome. If through the back door, it swings both ways. Get in line.

    • Guest-22

      Yes! Let’s do it. We need to tax millionaires, who make their money by exploiting the poor, to have them pay their fair share for creating a much better educational system, open and excellent for all.

  • Ruth

    Good for Dr. Quinones. Our immigration laws are so messed up and so tipped toward the wealthy, and require so much money invested,  that most of our ancestors who came here during historic migrations would never be allowed in the country now. 

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      The difference is that this continent was effectively wide open at the time.  Today, we have a large population that is hurting.

    • Steve

      I disagree. Having gone through getting a Green Card for my foreign-born wife, I know that it is not that expensive (a couple of thousand dollars including the lawyer).  
      A “modest proposal”: Why not have each pro-immigration liberal marry a foreigner who wants to immigrate to the US?  Then the immigrant has a natural sponsor to make him/her legal and the pro-immigation spouse has first-hand experience in what the costs really are. 

  • Dreamer?

    Instead of encouraging Mexicans to come here illegally, and causing a brain drain on Mexico, why doesn’t the US education establishment assist Mexico in improving its university system.  Mexico should try and hold un to its young, bright population, and we should help them achieve that aim.  They need Dr. Q’s in Mexico too!

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      We should assist Mexico?  If the Mexicans would deal with the corruption that is fundamental to their system, they wouldn’t need any help.  They have everything that they need.

  • Domrascona

       The doctor is to be congratulated for his tenacity, intelligence and dedication. However he should be embarassed for his promoting the absurdly irresponsible idea that his success warrants blanket amnesty and special treatment for anyone who can successfully break the law of a neighboring country.
       Immigration and population growth in the world are unsustainable. NPR’s discussion of his medical success and other issues beyond the fiscal realities of illegal immigration are beyond specious.    “No fault of their own” is a maudlin histrionic phrase with respect to children. Of course no child is ever responsible for the choices of their parents. That is not the point.     I am so disappointed by the lack of intellectual rigor in this program I am finding it almost impossible to continue to listen. I served in the military to pay for my education. How did Dr. Q pay for his?  What he is doing with his education is admirable. But that is so far from the relevant point this Harvard graduate should be embarassed. 

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Too many citizens are great plumbers, carpenters, and teachers right now.  We’re not hurting for talent.

  • Muriel

    Yes educate the children of illegal immigrants.  They have done nothing wrong, they were brought into this country at an age when they could not make decisions on their own.  Education is a solution to many societal ills.  They will contribute much more to society if they are educated than if they are not.

  • kim vt

    education paves the road to the future for students as well as the country. are we discussing free college education? my niece and countless other young americans have staggering college loans facing them upon college graduation with questionable employment upon graduation. why can’t they have free college tution? if you advocate free education all the way through college for aliens shouldn’t you be advocating the free education for all? and should there be strings attached to future contributions from that student? that is to say if a young person is educated at the expense of your state, should they be required to stay and work in your state for some period of time so that state recieves something in return for that investment?

  • mogl

    Restricting “instate tuition” in NOT THE SAME as denying education!  Would you all please STOP MAKING THIS MISTAKE !!!!

  • Bill

    For all the rallying against illegal immigrants, you don’t see many people complaining about the benefits of cheap produce, meat, and and other labor intensive activities they receive solely because our government turns a blind eye to employers capitalizing on illegal labor.

  • BHA in Vermont

    Absolutely NO to amnesty, of ANY kind.
    Reagan’s promise of no more illegals was stinking pile. They are coming in now as fast as they were then.

    If they pass the Dream Act, put some teeth in it: Those responsible for bringing young children here illegally go back to their home country when their child gets legal status with NO ability to EVER come to the USA legally in the future. If they come back illegally, welcome to the federal penitentiary.

    What we NEED is a REAL guest worker policy and program.

  • Dreamer?

    Also, anchor babies SHOULD not get US citizenship, as this give illegals a HUGE incentive to come here and give birth.  Witness the woman from the Phillipines who gave birth on a plane to the US last week.  Even though the child was born over the Pacific somewhere, it landed in SF so by law the child is a US citizen.  How fair is that????  NO MORE ANCHOR BABIES.  Why don’t the candidates talk about that?  Why don’t you at Onpoint????

    • BHA in Vermont

      Because it would mean repealing part of the 14th amendment.

      I happen to support this concept. There is no reason someone born on US territory should be a U.S. citizen by default.

  • Renee

    I believe the words we use to describe people are important. Millions  of people live in the U.S. without documentation.This is actually a civil offense, not criminal. About 1/2 of people entered the country legally and then overstayed their visas. Calling them “illegal” implies that they are criminal and this contributes to the believe that we should just get rid of them.

  • Dh001g

    I think we have to get the most out of the young people who are in our country regardless of where they come from. We especially need to focus more on getting the most out of our best and brightest like Dr. Q. they are going to be the innovators who will come up with new ideas and new industries. There is a great “Planet Money” piece on how a highly educated immigrant is basically employing a couple of thousand americans by coming up with way to improve electronics components. Its only his brain power which keeps the jobs from moving to China. We need to get more of these people. Getting a better education for people who are going to be factory workers wouldn’t be a bad idea either. Right now we are failing on all counts.

    • Diane800

      But I’m Retired and Hungry….who is going to pay for their education? Not me. I had no children because I had to work.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Tom Ashbrook,

    Isn’t fair telling the citizens of other coutries to make their own countries succeed?  I have no objection to welcoming guests who follow our rules, but fairness doesn’t enter into this.

  • David McNulty

    We are forgetting, that unless your name is White Cloud, Mankiller, or any other appellations taken by Native Americans, disenfranchised on land they had occupied possibly for centuries, YOU are the children of immigrants.

    The meanness of the American people has been honed to a fine edge by the Republicans and Libertarians in general, and the Tea Party in particular.  Zero compassion, no common sense, just an “I won’t pay/don’t wanna pay, for anyone else’s anything” attitude. 

    Once we were the greatest nation in the world  I now know that greatness came from compromise.  Today’s “win at all costs” mentality in social and political discourse is a major problem for America,which is rapidly becoming the smallest nation in moral stature.  As one who has watched for ~45 years, I am sometimes stunned at how we got from “Ask not, what your Country can do for you…” to “keep your government hands off my Medicare”*, and all that statement implies regarding the electorate.

    *spoken by a voter (presumed) at a town meeting held by the incumbent.

    • BHA in Vermont

      The discussion isn’t about legal immigrants, it is about allowing people in Texas illegally to pay the same in state rates as those who are there legally.

      If my child chose to go to school in Texas it would cost a lot more than if she were raised in Texas. I have been paying state and federal taxes for 40 years. Where is ‘my’ break?

      • Shagata Ganai

        I want you and all the others who think like this to wear T-shirts and bumper stickers that say that. 

        “WHERE’S MINE?”

        Go through life telling everyone you meet that this is your operational  and guiding principle.  But only in the interest of “fairness” do you even ask the question, right, citizen?

        Actually I am ashamed to call you my countryman.  “Where’s yours?”, indeed.  I wish someone gives it to you.

    • Abarbnuuma

      Would they still come in droves if any immigrant from anywhere were treated as the American Indian?  Basic human rights were deprived, including the right to raise their own children who were often taken far from home and placed in govt boarding schools, where they were forbidden to speak their native languages, practice their own religions, given foreign names?  Even when tribes held the most sacred supreme law of the land – treaties (U.S. Constitution) with over 300 ratified, none honored.

  • Rorytn

    I’m all for helping immigrants, but how can we work on this when our own citizens don’t have equal rights (gays and lesbians)?

    • Winston Smith

      Recognizing the perversion of gay marriage is not a rights issue, it is a morality issue (or rather an immorality issue) as well as one which obviously defies our biological makeup.  Don’t mix it up with the rights of people based on ethnicity, religion, sex, etc. because it is in no way equivalent.

      • BHA in Vermont

        The failure of your argument is that YOUR version of morality is based on YOUR religion yet you say to not mix them.

        • Winston Smith

          Based on the Bible, homosexuality is a perversion of God’s design for marriage.  And one day, every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is the only Lord and God and that all other religions, “prophets”, etc. were false.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            Wives not obeying their husbands is also a perversion, in that view.

      • Anonymous

        Homosexuality is observed throughout the animal world.  Religion isn’t.  Which one defies our biological makeup? 

        • Winston Smith

          The entire creation is warped ever since Adam and Eve chose to eat of the fruit that God asked them not to eat of to test their obedience.  

          Be that as it may, the logical conclusion of your argument is that we should mimic the animal kingdom in every other way.  So it ok acceptable steal from others, survival of the fittest, etc.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            Strange that our genes don’t look warped, unless you believe that sharing about 99% of our DNA with chimps is bad.

          • Winston Smith

            We are INFINITELY more complex and intelligent than any other animal.  No other animal can even contemplate the concept of infinity, or do thousands of other things such as write books, speak intelligently, play a musical instrument, contemplate their existence, extract minerals and make things, etc. etc. etc.  Anyone who can honestly believe that we evolved from apes is just closing their eyes to the INFINITE gap that exists between man and all other members of the animal kingdom.  The number of links that have supposedly been found compared to the number that would have to be found and capture all of the infinitesimal transitions in the supposed evolutionary chain is nothing.  Only a blind fool could really believe in evolution.  And one day, when everyone stands before God, they will realize how much creation demonstrates His existence and how utterly foolish they were in believing such a nonsensical fable.

          • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

            Our intelligence is an example of an emergent property that arises out of developing complexity.  That being said, there’s nothing in our differences that amounts to a “you can’t get here from there.”  Everything in us is based on anatomy and functioning in other animals.  What you’re saying is that God created a world designed to hide any evidence of his creation.  There’s a simpler answer–that we evolved, just as the evidence says.

          • Anonymous

            I wasn’t asserting that everything found in nature should be replicated by society but that your biological argument was false.  If something can be found in nature, it is not unnatural.   

  • Anonymous

    Vaugn
    tells a bogus story about the root causes of illegal immigration.  
    Fact is that enforcement was not caused by the 1986 amnesty, but we have
    had nothing but enforcement since then and illegal immigration has only
    increased (until 2005) when the economy increased.  Enforcement
    policies create a backlog in applications and a bottle neck, forcing
    people who entered illegally to remain, to bring their families, and
    that has created this problem.    Also, most reports (see the Mass Taxpayers), show that in-state tuition would be a net GAIN in revenue to the Commonwealth.  People are not attending now b/c they cannot pay out-of-state rates.   This is good for the MA Economy.  Its good for young people.  It is a slam dunk.

     

  • Diego

    1st: “The US can’t afford to cut the out-of-state rate”? So it would be preferable to not have at least some income (in-state rate) rather than none?  2nd: The illegal immigration is vastly due to poverty and fearing for their lives daily, because of mobs taking over regions and government.  3rd: US attempts to address the violence in Mexico by giving millions for guns? The government is corrupt; did we miss this? Anyone have any idea of where all those donations ended? The mob thanks us for our generous donations!

  • Anonymous

    For background on the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) and their real agenda, see the New York Times, “The Anti-Immigration Crusader” on April 27, 2011.    The article points out that CIS founder is a white supremacist.   I am surprised that On Point gives their staff air time.
     

  • Scotte

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t Romney get the same benefit for his kids if he just sent them to an in-state school in Mass? Is he just jealous that they won’t go to UT?

  • Anonymous

    Romney does not want his kids to compete with these kids.   So many kids of privilege (like my own kids!) take college for granted and expect to attend without the kind of hard work that these young people put into their school work.

  • Negona3

    I’m really tired of people repeating the adage of this country was built on immigrants. Yes, at a time when it sanctioned that immigration and that immigration was done quite systematically. And those immigrants came and assimilated into American society and became American. These recent immigrants are ILLEGAL. They are in essence criminals upon arriving and in any other situation, criminals do not receive free education, health care etc. unless they are in prison. So let’s be clear about this. I am an immigrant, a legal one. My parents applied and waited until we were sanctioned and then we came to this country, paid our taxes, and became citizens. Many of these illegal immigrants do not learn English, work off the books – not paying taxes (does the caller have any numbers on how many illegals are paying taxes?), and send the majority of their money back to their home countries. This is not American! This country can’t even support legal tax paying citizens. African Americans are still largely without higher education and health care but yet we’re spending millions on ILLEGAL individuals. How is this logical and/or democratic!!!

  • Diego

    Completely agree with caller about taxes being paid by illegal immigrants.

  • Anonymous

    Here is how it is logical.  If you work hard in a MA high school, you should be able to attend college at the same rate as the kid sitting next to you. Why do these kids pay more when they did better in school?  I know Adams scholarship winners who cannot use the scholarship that they earned for having the highest MCAS scores.

  • Diego

    I worked for government agency. There are tons TONS of US citizens on SSN, SSI, medicaid, and all other free services given by states that are not eligible for them. But all complaint is about illegal citizens taking advantage of those services!

  • Ballgames1

    Plenty of American students are educated in other countries for free as exchange students, as I was.  Immigrants pay taxes without the benefit of social security in retirement. Get a grip. My college age children have been impressed with the work ethic of foreign students–they are usually
    hitting the books on the weekend instead of partying and shopping…

  • Yar

    We have over 100,000 invested in a kid by the time he graduates a public high school,  tax dollars, not including what families pay.  So why waste the investment, make them citizens and let the go to college.  We need productive workers, what scares most people about undocumented workers, is their work ethic.  That is what we are about, creating opportunities for hard working people.

  • Mary Sawyer

    I was move to tears by the testimony of James, the builder from TN.  He makes me proud to be part of his America. 

  • Anonymous

    These kids did not “BREAK THE LAW.”   They were children when they entered the US.   You need to enter before age 15 to be eligible for in-state tuition or the DREAM Act.   Children cannot be held accountable.

  • Dave in CT

    I can’t stand this talent pool stuff.  We have a whole country full of people who can get educated and work.  Necessity is the mother of all invention.

    The world is overpopulated.  Resources are scarce. Many countries are classically illiberal, and need to get fixed and offer their people opportunity.

    It is not our obligation to expand our population infinitely and solve the world’s problems from here.

    Work for reduced population growth, Support liberty movements abroad.  Let us struggle with scarcity in America without adding more fuel (job applicants) to the fire.

    IMO the endless immigration story just supports the endless growth myth, and same old corporate cronies and their debt funders that love to watch us all scramble.

  • Carol

    I believe we have an even larger issue here, which is the cost of educating ANYONE in America, however they came here

  • Rick

    Quibbling about social spending while multi-billion dollar wars have drained us for a decade is like arguing over who deserves a slice of bread while looters ransack the bakery. This is a false issue when taken from a financial point of view.

  • http://profiles.google.com/mark.buell Corvus A

    The whole idea – Romney’s accusation – that we are giving these student children something by offering in-state tuition is a smokescreen and a canard.
    EVERY student in this country can get in-state tuition – by simply staying in-state. To even hint that we are somehow depriving our own students of financial support in favor of these children is a lie, and is immoral in my opinion.

  • Jess

    It’s ridiculous to say that the forefathers “followed the law” to get to this country. They broke numerous trusts and contrasts with the local indigenous people, so much so that most U.S. Citizens are STILL living illegally on Native American soil, if we are to go by the lawful contracts signed by both parties in the last 300 years.

  • Dh001g

    Could we recap the changes in the quotas of how many people of each ethnicity could enter the country. When the pilgrims came over on the Mayflower there were no laws limiting how many people could enter the country. This goes to the heart of the “place in line” argument. My understanding is the number of people allowed to enter from Mexico is so small there is effectively no line. There is also very few student visas for for Mexicans to attend US universities.

  • Chilefarms

    There is something very wrong with a system that allows the jobs to travel around the world – corporations open off-shore operations all the time – but do not allow workers/people/individuals to do the same thing.

  • Tina

    To the caller who referenced the Founding Fathers:  Please, they had hundreds of years of Colonialism “getting their backs”, and many supported a completely inequitable slave society/economy.  We need to think for ourselves; referencing the Founders results in a Quagmire.

  • Anonymous

    The Amnesty did not BRING People.  Read work of Doug Massey at Princeton to see how the enforcement system, which costs us billions of dollars each year, CREATED this problem.   By increasing costs of circular migration, the border policing has caused people to stay and settle with families.    ENFORCEMENT creates the problem.  We need a better solution.   Create a path to citizenship.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      Enforcement creates the problem?  How?  The problem is the number of immigrants who cross the border illegally.  Enforcement doesn’t ask anyone to do that.

    • BHA in Vermont

      So you are saying if we didn’t enforce the borders, there would be no people entering illegally?  They would all stay in their country of origin?

  • Rhianna172003

    Texans do not pay income tax, ergo everyone (document and undocumented) pays the same amount of taxes thorough sales, property taxes etc. So the whole of idea of Texans subsidizing illegals is bogus, they pay their fair share.

  • Anonymous

    Sorry to see Jessica Vaughn from CIS getting more press on NPR.   They are a racist organization, founded by a supporter of eugenics.   OnPoint needs to look up the New York Times article in April on John Tanton’s network, including CIS.  

  • Anonymous

    Prior to the 1990′s when enforcement was increased, people from Mexico would enter for a season and leave. They were not even ‘immigrants’ because they did not intend to stay.   BUT enforcement created two problems.  (1) a backlog of applications for legal status.  (2) higher costs to return so that people (mostly men) began to stay and bring their families.   So, now you have a generation who has grown up in the uS undocumented.

    • BHA in Vermont

      Which gets back to needing a REAL guest worker policy/program.

  • Anonymous

    Men brought children because they could not return each season to see them.  Settlement happened.   We have 200 years of circular migration from Mexico…without this settlement of secondary citizens.    This is only part of the story…but it is a big part since the # from Mexico is bigger than any other sending nation.

  • Anonymous

    Also…follow the money.  Look at the budget for Homeland Security.  How much is the government spending on processing applications (almost $0 and in fact in 2010 it created revenue!)  How much is spent on  enforcement?  Almost $20 BILLION per year.

  • Anonymous

    On Point but off topic:

    http: //www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/397951/september-26-2011/exclusive—radiohead—-codex-

    Hear Tom at about 30 sec in.

  • Czarp

    America was founded by immigrants, then as it should be now, right?

    Well I don’t think it’s fair to compare the immigrant migrations of the 1800′s to immigration now.

    Yes, America was founded by immigrants, but America at the time was a completely different animal. Success, and even basic standards of living, were not guaranteed to those immigrants.

    Citizenship today comes with benefits; the risk is gone and the rewards (healthcare, unemployment, education, entitlement) are guaranteed even with failure.

    If there were no guaranteed rewards, would we still be having this conversation?

    I’m not saying that slavery, poverty, and indentured servitude are systems we want to return to, and I’m not saying that citizenship should be harder because there is more to gain… but to say that an immigrant is an immigrant and because America was founded by immigrants it’s all the same now is a little ridiculous.

  • Czarp

    Rephrasing: to say that an immigrant is an immigrant and because America was founded
    by immigrants it’s all the same now is not a valid argument.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

      You had it right.  Add to this that if an immigrant is an immigrant is an immigrant, then there was nothing wrong with us coming here to take over the continent.

      • Aaabarbnuuma

        The Native Americans were the only population of the entire Western Hemisphere.  They maintained America in a pristine state for centuries, yet they are thought of as inferior.  The waters were clean as reported by Bernal Diaz, a Spanish soldier of the 1500′s when the Spanish soldiers and priests who came here began their New World Disordering by warring on the people who fed and cared for them.  Their mission to claim the land for Spain, find riches, and spread Christianity.  Being all men, they baptized and “married” the natives breeding as many children as possible, and starting the largest mixed population in the world, known today as “Mexicans”  Due to the killing, diseases, and hate that war spreads for its victims, today’s Mestizo looks down on his/her Indian roots, the people with the best, and try to identify with the Spanish who brought nothing good to the table.  Magnificent Native architecture, thousands of years old, agricultural advances, and fine artwork serve as tourist attractions.    We are today’s Indians.

  • Choicehandyman

    as a illegal immigrant from Cambodian, then become citizen, and tax payer since I am 14 yo working at the amusement park, I have waited in line at 18yi to qualify for student grant from tax payer money.  Now I give to military children scholarship fund.  

    As tax payer I prefer to give to legal citizen grant (check & balance) way to get funding for reduce education.  Paying taxes when it is due and give to scholarship funds for legitimate candidate wanted to go to school & proven qualify is the way to do MY diligent-service of my HEART to give for education & to those in NEED!

    President Reagan & Obama & Governor Rick Perry, and Governor of California to take my and my children tax dollars to give for the ILLEGAL and NOT given to CITIZEN BORN in the other 49 states in-state tuition go to school here is outrage.  

    Perhaps I should get my ILLEGALLY Cambodian relatives to come to Mexico clime over the fence then proud to be ILLEGAL – go to the top university in the US (HARVARD, STANFORD, YALE, . . .) to get top education for REDUCED price and get a head of my neighbors and my own kids that wanted to go the these school as out-of-state students and my for as doubles for tuition.  AND this is having heart to ALL ILLEGAL people in this country and IT IS OK to be dishearten to the LEAL and CITIZEN BORN people of here that is my children, my neighbor’s kids, and my fellow church citizen. 

    IF GOV Perry and those that point fingers at me and say I did not have heart is hiprocrite because he should take every thing that he earned, his wife’s earned, all of this RELATIVEs earned and GIVE IT ALL to any and ALL ILLEGALs he and those like him wishes to do to LABLE HIMself as HAS HEART!  PLEASE NOT MY TAX MONEY! ! We needed that tax money for many other need that is why congress FIGHT & FIGHT & FIGHT & FIGHT to provide this county and there is not ENOUGH to go around to our own house hold first.  TAKE YOU and YOUR OWN HARD EARNINGs and give it all to ILLEGAL folks as you given with your hearted felt. 

    Since this is the politician taking tax payers money that is so cheap and abundant to come by as it has been and been and been before as pork-programs this given to illegal tuition is another form politician is lining their path and increase their chances to be ELECTED by relatives and associations of the illegal citizens (i.e. spanish speaking citizen - mainly Mexican in Texas & California) for the are the most growing voting population in in 2011 time frame.  - These politicians are clearly wolf in sheep skin – robbing from tax payers tax dollars to line their campaign contribution fund by converting the tax payers out-of-state tuition dollars that state could earn and give it as an exchange for say-Mexican population voters for their votes by the Governor pass a law in TX&CA to give these potential voters their relatives and associations tuition fee bonus gift in thousands of dollars robbing out right from tax payer contributions that being exclude in the vote or decision making of this law and act.  

    Why other politicians and the media does not make this a connection or if  they did, the media could not put in together in their right & reporting to get this points across to the readers and listeners that this is “politician’s tricks – quiet obvious as wolf robing tax payers dollars and pretend to be a angelic-sheep with BIG HEARTED doing a good thing to ILLEGAL immigrant only and mainly as heart driven purpose and it has absolutely nothing to do with VOTES!  SICK & I AM so sick that these dollars could and should have turn into job dollars vs selfish voters bonus dollars the politicians buys to get the vote as a gift that in crease their favorable votes without getting more campaign contributions from individuals which also has limits in amount!  SICK, SICK, SICK, yet brilliant as another Madoff scheme to self serving at the bottom or really at the HEART of the intender to robb from the tax payers for his own goods vs physiologically pointing his figers back toward others as HEARTLESS for not given to some needed people – if that is the case why don’t they make the law that all military members has their tuition paid for before, during and after their duty paid for along with all or their spouses and their children as unlimited gift because they have HEARTs and how much this would mounted up to is not at ALL a concern or an issues because all this is about HEART vs HEATLESS that they have and some tax payer do not – so let’s show it an prove it as ALL this is about HEART – please let make it toward those has to pay the ultimate toll – the military and their families – and not those that did not have do pay these heavy jTOLL yet has time and pre-meditated to break the law and then gets recognize and given a bonus because so many of them breaking the law they become politicians counted votes ticket to their next political thrown and penical places that they dream and driven to get their with whatever HEARTLESS act that they can come up with  - even robbing it in bright day lights and with bigger spot lights on it like being air on NPR program and no one even calling-yelling out that their is a theft in our own house (US treasury & colleges/universities annual funds) and robbing from ourselves while we know it and watching it in multi color and over the air. AT END nothing will be done and the WOLF THIEF POLITICIAN in sweet hearted SHEEP coat and voice and finger pointing at the heartless tax payers with WINs with the ILLEGAL immigrants mass with potential voters associated relative come out on top – paid for my STUPID or HELPLESS tax payers being finger pointed and name calling as THOSE HEARTLESS problematic legal citizens ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! 

  • gary

    I wish there was someone talented enough to articulate effectively why at the end of the day we need to do 2 things; take care of the people that are regardless of who they are, and secondly for our greater good as a country we need to stop illegal immigration.  Initially I was against instate tuition for illegal immigrants, but after alot of thinking, we need those that can rise to the top, nomatter where they come from, far as I know the rules are not lax academically similar to affirmative action, so far as I see it if there are those with strong minds out there that would add value to our democracy, enable them.   Unfortunately our society is so incredibly broke and complex we are not likely to emerge with any kind of solution to illegal immigration.   We need some kind of amnesty system that works to process those that are here effectively in or out, as well as a government that is not afraid to protect the health of our nation by actually securing our borders completely.

  • Eb3design

    Immigration is simple.

     

    The RIGHT don’t want Immigrants Amnesty

    The LEFT wants to give Immigrants rights

    The IMMERGRINTS want Legal Status

     

    Give everyone what they want. First acknowledge that they
    broke the law and as punishment

    - Ban them from ever becoming US Citizens (can’t Vote, Can’t
    Sponsor).

    - Children Born here would still be Citizens, but should be
    at the bottom of the list for Sponsorship) 

    - Fine and Repay Back Taxes

    - Countries of origin would forfeit their future Legal
    Immigration allotments for these Immigrants.

    - Change Immigration limiting the over-all numbers and only
    to people for Humanitarian and Wealth, and Education or Skills (this would not
    affect Temporary Work Permits or Cyber Workers)

    - Employer Bounty: Fine/Jail anyone who exploits Immigrants
    (Financially or by control). The money going to the Immigrant regardless of
    Legal Status.

    - Allow children (legal or illegal) access to Education, (upon
    graduation, they can apply for legal immigration.

     

    Create a Bell-Curve..

    25% give Permanent Legal
    Alien Residence (People who invested in the country)

    - Own Property

    - Own a Business (that employs Legal worker),

    - Military Service

    - Higher Education (Has or Obtains a needed skill)

     

    25% Deport

    - Anyone with criminal record (Theft, Assault, Abuse, DUI)

     

    50% give Temporary Work
    Permits (renewed maybe 3yrs)

    - Anyone who currently has a job

    • Anonymous

      I don’t agree with everything, but I think it is on the right track.  I don’t think you can DEPORT the criminals though.  They hop right over the border again.  Unfortunately, I think they have to be incarcerated here.  Use the fine you collect from the law abiding to pay for it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/pselbert Patricia Selbert

    Thank you for another great topic this morning, I enjoyed the interview with Dr. Quinones tremendously. Like Dr. Quinones, I offer my comment on this conversation from the personal perspective of an immigrant (from Curacao). I found that access to getting an education allowed me  to assimilate into the American culture and in turn contribute to this great country.  Human potential is sacred and education is a basic human right.  WIthout offering access to education to illegal immigrants and others who are vulnerable, pockets of inequality and ignorance will continue to fester in our communities, which will weaken the fabric of our society and the American dream. Patricia Selbert author or The House of Six Doors, an immigrants story.

  • Anonymous

    It’s nice to believe that “education is a basic human right”, but until underprivileged U.S. citizens have access to such education, I’m not in favor of non-U.S. citizens being able to get it. Sorry! 

    • http://www.facebook.com/jhayesboh James Hayes-Bohanan

      As Rick Perry and several other people on the program make clear, the provision of education is not JUST a matter of fairness to the individuals who study; it is an investment in them. So if there is not enough education for all of those who are qualified and willing to do the work, the answer is not arbitrarily to cut some people out of it, but rather to invest in public higher education. Again, Mitt is not being honest here: he drove up the price of public higher education when he was governor, across the board, by not investing in it.
      http://webhost.bridgew.edu/jhayesboh/publicgood.html

  • jpl02

    no way Jose. Make them legal, give them soc sec #s, let them contribute. or send them home. we are not welcome to work there.

  • Roy Mac

    No light today.  Just more blah, blah, blah.  This topic is truly a problem, but nobody adds anything to the solution; not even those so-called experts on the panel.

  • http://whilewestillhavetime.blogspot.com/ John Hamilton

    Good luck trying to make absolute, unbendable laws free of ambiguity or gray areas. What few are recognizing is that illegal imigration will continue to happen as long as the “U.S.” is perceived by “foreigners” as a better place to be. That’s how this country began, and is how it continued to be until the present time. As long as the country is attractive and has a thriving economy, people will do what it takes to get here.

    That attractiveness is in decline as our economy goes into decline. In this context, illegal immigration would be a good indicator of the economic health of the country, just like unemployment, housing starts, durable goods purchases and stock prices.

    It is likely that illegal immigration is down, given that the other indicators are down.

    What we might want to consider is de-incentivizing immigration by helping other countries, Mexico por ejemplo, by making the countries they live in more attractive. A first step would be decriminalizing illegal drugs. That would de-incentivize the people of “Mexico” to be involved in the drug trade. Then we could hep encourage such industries as solar, small-scale organic farming and fair trade textiles.

  • schmimu

    We need to come to an understanding that most of these people are hard workers and have contributed tremendously with their hard work to our society.  It is not that simple to send them back, that is not the solucion. But instead coming up with real solutions on how those who are here that may qualify can be educated so they can continue contributing in a positive way to our society.  And yes! education should be a basic human right, for illegal migrants, for underclass citizents, for everybody.  We need to listen to eachother and open our minds for a better future for all of us. 

  • Wm. James from Missouri

    I can’t understand why so many people assume that all liberals or progressives believe in giving illegal immigrants anything and everything they ask for. I consider myself progressive in many respects and a realist in as many respects. I do not support the “give away”,  to illegal aliens. Should we support 1 billion Chinese also ?
    There is no shortage of people or workers in the USA.  Just a shortage of those who support wages that produce gainful employment.

  • Nantasketm

    Lots of people are born into desperate situations from which it is impossible to escape.  If I had been born into Dr. Quinines’ desperate situation in Mexico I’m pretty sure I would have done what he did and I think most Americans would have done the same. He seems like a fine person and an asset to our country. Of course I realize that that many other illegal immigrants don’t have his integrity and decency and are a burden and threat to our country. Because artificial birth control is very difficult to obtain in Mexico and family planning is discouraged in any case (due to the influence of a major religious institution), Mexico is a hugely overpopulated country.(Check out the explosive population growth since 1950.) Combine that with decades of incompetent and corrupt government rule, the drug gangs,  and the noxious influence of U.S. corporations there, and you have a brew made in hell whose “solution” is going to be imperfect at best.

  • Elektra4me

    The Hispanic Culture and People have turned most of California to a slum. I cannot understand why people don’t address the issues. Birth control for Welfare, then we would not have the problem of educating their children. The Brain Surgeon is the exception, even though he did break the law. Point One. I would like to know, who paid for his education? And how much does he give back to the community now that he is a wealthy doctor.
    In my culture, one did not have children if you could not afford to take care of them. In my present neighborhood, seventy five percent of the families are Hispanic. Most of them have at least four children. All are receiving some government aid. Whether it be WIC or Medical, or Food Stamps, it is a culture for them, to have a poverty mentality. To me they are the problem of our “Climate” today. And only a politician would want to pay for their college fees to get their votes.
    They are taking our jobs, being paid in cash, sending money to Mexico for their huge families, and living in slums at the welfare of the American Citizens, so some employer can have cheap labor. One of my neighbors, the wife an Anchor Baby married a illegal emigrant, managed some how to get his “green card”. They have four children, two houses, one paid for cash and is a rental, six cars including a new Toyota pickup, at least seventy five chickens, and an illegally corraled horse and German Shepard all living on a fifty by seventy five foot property. Somehow I believe their Mexican culture has been brought with them, and is presently living in the U S A. 
    If someone else where in the United States does not believe me, or thinks I’m being mean, come to California and take a look.

    • MIAGUI

      well aren’t we a little racist. Have you ever heard lead by example. Have you been down to the south I don’t see any hispanics there yet there are some major slums there so are you blaming the hispanics for that too. Poverty is everywere. It our governments choices that is making us pay. Yes we need to monitor or get a better method of regulating the amount of immagrants that come to the US. But again we are talking about education. I live here in California and I do see many areas where people live in poverty or low income situations, but it is not one race its many. Let me ask you this miss Elektra4me don’t think you life don’t stink either look into your past and see if anyone didn’t ever get any assistance. In one way or another everyone has started from a low point or there ancestors have. So lets all jump off of our High and mighty. I am a hispanic woman that came from a poor family but I can tell you that my mother was a prideful woman and if she did need assistance she paid it back 100 fold by working her butt off so that we never recieved asistance again. I found myself in the same situation where I needed assistance for three months and I can tell you with the strict guide lines they have I didn’t get much. Being a mother of three this was the only time I ever asked for help. I may have started out without speaking much english but our education here in the states and the lovely racism that I see in your notation pushed me to become educated and now I am in college getting ready to go to become a Physician Assistant. I have participated in major comunity functions. Oh ya and I will be responsible for paying back all my tuition with interest and I just paid off my $10,000 which actually came out to about 19 thousand because of interest. I’m not saying this story is going to be true for every case but as HUMAN BEINGS we are all striving to have a better life and I have to give THANKS to the US for giving this poor child of an IMMAGRANT an education!!!! 

  • Evelyn

    The immigration problem and the persistence of it is a directly tied to corporate and business greed.  I am a black American whose ancestors were brought here on slave ships.  Our unemployment rates are 50% among our youth, and more than double the rate of nation as a whole for our overall community.  If corporations paid a decent wage, we, Americans, could employ our own people.  It is the fault of greedy corporations and businesses that pay these people wages and benefits lower than they would pay Americans.  They pass on their profits to oversees opportunities or to enrich themselves and their shareholders.  They are NOT penalized!  The immigrants are exploited but they live here at huge costs to the people like me. We, all Americans, are still paying for the exploitation of my ancestors.

    It is, once again, the burgeon of the middle class since the upper middle and upper class do not pay their fair share.  Without the middle class, this country would cease to exist.  We are tired of being exploited by the out of touch politicians, the rich, and corporations.  People will wake up and revolt.  It is issues like racism, near government shut downs, immigration, and the Financial Crisis of 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 and beyond, that will break our backs and our will to maintain this exploitation process. I am afraid of what will happen when people stop being anesthetized with Obama’s religion. Jersey Shore, Chaz Bono, American Idol, etc.  America will not look like the America we know today. Wake up, “We the People”, and take control of our destiny.  This is great country but it is rapidly becoming untenable by the greed that is pervasive and running unchecked.

    • Mmars028

      We’re talking about education here. It’s true that there is a culture gap between the US and Mexico, but how else do we improve the situation if not by educating the children to become productive Americans. Are you are suggesting that their illegal status and poverty mean that their children don’t deserve to be educated? How will that help anything?

    • jo

      You sound a little greedy yourself.

  • Anonymous

    When did we lose our common sense? Our Government, has allowed the invasion of 30 million criminals in direct violation of Article IV, Section IV of our Constitution. they force American tax payers to pay Billions to provide Welfare, Prison cells, Educate the invaders children, free medical care,massive document fraud, & are destroying our schools, hospitals, communities, culture while Robbing, Raping, Killing & Assaulting American Citizens WE ARE BEING INVADED! WAKE UP PEOPLE!
    An education is a good thing.

    step #1 http://bit.ly/oBuTUd
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NVT7lyNRZQ&feature=player_embedded
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsH8xvjTAlo
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btj6IeOFkis&feature=player_embedded
    http://immigrationcounters.com/
    http://ojjpac.org/memorial.asp
    http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/
    http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frosty580.htm
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muw22wTePqQ
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/02/immigration-costs-fair-amnesty-educations-costs-reform/
    http://www.rense.com/general81/dtli.htm
    http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=41045
    http://www.cairco.org/econ/econ.html
    http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/003335.html
    Every Non-representative including obama and holder are not upholding the oath of office! they swore to defend the Constitution! If these clowns were to do their job, this would all be a Moot point!
     Anchors and their criminal parents go, period, you knew you were breaking the law when you crossed the border.

    Next shut down any business hiring illegal labor. Oh and owners go to jail.
     Got a better idea? Lets hear it!

    • brian parizek

      this story was about the children of immigrants; your commentary may resonate w/ others concerning the parents/adults that cross the border illegally, but i think you’re more than a bit off when it comes to their kids. 

      the children of immigrants did not choose to come here, their parents brought them.

      if a child is born in this country, they are a citizen of this country.

  • Meg Marshall

    I am surprised to find myself siding with Gov. Perry on this issue. How can we effectively punish the children of illegal immigrants by denying them an education? Taxpayers who feel it is inappropriate to pay for adequate education for “certain” children in our country are heartless indeed. Even if we only get get one Dr. Q out of every 10,000 students, it’s money well spent, especially if it’s you with the brain tumor!

    • Mmars028

      Invaded? If you had been born in Mexico, would you honor American laws and quietly accept your lot in life, or take a risk to provide a better existence for your children, parents and spouse? I wonder if you have ever considered this.

  • Anonymous

    Mixing apples and oranges here.

    Allow illegal immigrants to attend college, but charge out-of-state tuition.  Why should an illegal immigrant be charged in-state tuition in the state of Texas, while a citizen of Vermont would be charged out-of-state tuition?

    If the kid grows up to be a brain surgeon, he can well afford to pay back the loans on out-of-state tuition.

    There are excellent medical schools in Mexico.  One of my professors was a Mexican citizen and graduate who was in the U.S. legally, in contrast to the arrogant, entitled Quinones (typical of neurosurgeons, IME, but still).

    • http://www.facebook.com/gail.m.feldman Gail M Feldman

      sorry, but the CHILD of an illegal immigrant, born in the usa, is not an illegal immigrant.  perry, with whom i disagree on just about everything else in the universe, is right in this instance.  you can’t punish a child, regardless of the parents’ status, and not educating someone is pretty severe punishment… of the child and of the society that has to support him or her when s/he becomes and uneducated adult.  (and if the child was born in texas, he’s not only not an immigrant — illegal or otherwise — but he’s not even out of state!)

      g

      • Anonymous

        As I said, mixing apples and oranges.

        Quinones wasn’t born here.  By no stretch of the imagination was he a U.S. citizen when he entered illegally.

  • Abarbnuuma

    Dr. Q was interesting last night, but showing our human brains are all alike (unless damaged?) is not relevant to illegal immigration.

    Missing from Immigration discussions:  USA needs to MAKE MEXICO and the other countries from where illegals come RESPONSIBLE.  Stop the foreign aid, otherwise we are to blame.  North Korea has strict border patrol.  Learn how they do it.  “We, the people of the U.S.” means American U.S. citizens.  Our Immigration Process is compromised, as well as our penal system whereby American Citizens are jailed for breaking federal laws.  Dr. Q is admirable in his achievement, one out of millions?  Yes, we are a country of laws.  Hold to our U.S. Constitution.

    • http://www.facebook.com/jhayesboh James Hayes-Bohanan

      Does this mean we won’t accept inexpensive manufactured goods from Mexico either?

  • Abarbnuuma

    Bi-lingual Sp/Eng applicants are “preferred” on many U.S. job applications.  Banks and other U.S. businesses provide Spanish Speakers.  There’s the rub.  Why when we have no EEO laws to protect foreign languages?  Voting materials too are now in foreign languages.  Our national language is English.  Our US Naturalization Process requires knowledge of our U.S. Constitution.  “Illegals” are being protected by laws for U.S. Citizens.  Their supporters use our laws to protect them while they remain ignorant of the laws they are breaking. Countries of origins are calling the shots for U.S. Citizens, and we are letting all this happen – because we are the country of immigrants (irrelevant to the illegal issue), but tripping us up big time, and under both D and R Administrations.

    • Mmars028

      The United States does not, nor has it ever had a “national language”.

      • Abarbnuuma

        Both the USA and most of Canada are English Language countries.  All of our Founding Documents:  The Declaration of Independence, and our U. S. Constitution are written in English, including the Pledge of Allegience, and all of our legal statutes.  Although a gift from France, the words on the Statue of Liberty are in English.  We have an affection for immigrants, because most Americans, except Native Americans came here from all parts of the world to make a better life for themselves.  Most of the world knows that English is the language of America.

  • Anonymous

    The interview with Dr. Q made me physically nauseous from its complete lack of logic and accountability.  Would Dr. Q find it acceptable if I were to rob a bank to pay for college?  After all, I cannot afford $100,000 and I would only be doing it to better my lot in life and provide for my family.  It would be an act of desperation against the forces of poverty that have been holding me back.  That’s the same argument that he uses to justify his crime, so he would have to agree or be a hypocrite of the highest caliber.
     
    I also find it interesting that so often the defenders of illegal aliens claim that these illegal aliens aren’t taking jobs from citizens, they’re just doing the undesirable jobs that Americans won’t do.  I wonder if brain surgeon is one of those undesirable jobs.
     
    Sadly, I do not really blame Dr. Q.  In fact, I commend him for his accomplishments as they are admirable and he has merely taken advantage of the inequalities in our policies.  I do however condemn our weak-spined political leaders and my countrymen, like Mr. Ashbrook, who would advocate stiff penalties to the offenders of some laws, while concurrently providing privileges and benefits not even available to legal law abiding citizens to the offenders of other laws.  This is classic doublethink and it defies the 2nd law of thought. 
     
    Treating criminals like criminals is not heartless, it is logical and it is justice.  If one wants to pay in-state tuition then one should become a legal resident of that state.  Is it also heartless to imprison the breadwinner of a home for breaking a law?  His children will suffer from the lost income, yet we accept the fact that they will have to bear that burden for the crimes of their father.  If we are to be truly equal in our treatment of crimes, then why not also pass a law that all the children of gang bangers, murderers, rapists and drug dealers will get reduced tuition as well?  Imagine the utopia that would then unfold - prisons and colleges full to the brim, unemployment vanquished and the few who are left working real jobs are paying 80% in taxes to pay for it all.
     
    Make no mistake, this is a subsidy for illegal immigration, and whatever is subsidized will increase.  This is what happens when classic studies are eliminated from education.  People forget how to think and then can no longer see the asinine insanity inherent in the arguments in favor of moral relativism and they are ignorant of the countless times throughout history that this very path has lead to failure.
     
    Heartless is telling the child of a middle class family that even though he was valedictorian and got accepted to Harvard, he can’t go because his parents can’t afford out of state tuition, they make too much to qualify for assistance and their credit is too low to get a loan.  Then expect him to go to community college, graduate and pay his share to “spread the wealth around” to a former illegal alien’s Pell Grant so he can go to Harvard.

  • Farmer Joe

    It seems silly to even debate in-state college tuition after these same children have been provided FREE k-12 education with free lunch and often free medical care, free child-care, free food stamps, etc.   Being in the lowest income brackett - many immigrants pay little or no tax.     Those are the issues.   There is definately exploitation of this low-wage, dirty-work work force by certain sectors (agriculture, hospitality, etc.) but as a farm owner who pays far above minimum wage for my field workers – it is hard to find a young strong american who can hack it the way previous generations did and the way the mexican workers do today.   We are a country that needs to relearn how to work and appreciate manual skills.  Crack down on illegal immigration and watch business move to Mexico – maybe not a bad thing for Mexico.  

  • Abarbnuuma

    Yes, educate through high school, then they must struggle to get into college just like every American college-bound.  When first enrolled in school, their parents must reveal themselves.  We need to get i.d.’s on them.  Illegals usually have advocates here who mislead them.  There should be penalties for them too.  They should lose their foreign citizenship and be identified to INS.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jhayesboh James Hayes-Bohanan

    Where to begin? Mitt showed a tremendous lack of regard for public higher education when he was governor, but now he talks of it as a goldmine. Residents of a state typically have priority, because they have paid the most in and will likely give the most back within the state. Several callers alluded to this, but I honestly think it is not a subject Mitt knows much about.

    Nobody in this conversation talked about the factors that drive migration. Of the three Republican leaders discussed in this hour — Romney, Reagan, and Perry — the latter two were/are honest about the facts on the ground related to migrants, while Romney deflects discussion away from his own role. His business practices encourage migration in several ways — from his gardeners and Dunkin’ Donuts clerks to the displacement of farmers who can’t live on the prices DD pays for coffee. 
    And all of this is a diversion of course, in a country as bad at math as it is at geography. Migrants make economic booms possible, and though they may tighten labor markets in economic busts, their economic footprint is not big enough to cause those busts. Only the big players can do that!

  • Slipstream

    Should the children of illegal immigrants be given taxpayer-funded education?  I think so.  What else should these children do?  For the same reasons that hospitals do not turn away sick illegals, our schools should not turn away illegal children.  Should they get in-state tuition rates?  If they are legal residents of the state, then they should.

    At the same time I think that illegal immigrants should be sent home.  If their presence here is against U.S. law, then deportation is in order, which is the same thing that would happen to an American who was in another country illegally.  If that sounds a little screwy, so be it.  This is a screwy issue.

  • itsAbtRightAndWrong

    Why don’t we educate these illegal immigrants first, that they are not entitled to our tax dollars, via fraudulent claim of tax credit. Why don’t we teach them what is right and what is wrong first, by rewarding the right and punishing the wrong, not the reverse:
    http://www.wthr.com/video?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=7054149#.T7KWoh2slSw.facebook

  • http://www.facebook.com/progressiveblue Ann Woods

    What an exercise in futility. Those of us who support instate tuition for the children of undocumented immigrants are not going to change our minds when we read the same old, tired talking points -myths, actually- from the opposition. And the opposition is definitely not going to listen to anything we have to say on the issue. The best thing we supporters can do is help our President win re-election and hope for more progress on reforming immigration law.

    By the way, if an immigrant enters this country without appropriate papers, it’s not a, felony nor is it even a misdemeanor. It only become a prosecutable offense if the immigrant has been deported once, say for criminal activity, and then re-enters the country.  Those of the opposition who continue to scream about “breaking the law” are full of pinto beans!

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