Broken Government And The Debt Crisis

Yar

I can see Social Security Recipients telling congress “don’t make me come down there.” and that is just what they should do. If just one in 50 decided to come to town, there would be total breakdown. Congress couldn’t handle a million retires in the capital. If congress wants to shut government down, maybe the old folks should be there to meet their legislators as they come out of the house and senate. I am ready for some non-violent protest. Talk about shutting government down, I believe that 1 million elderly will do the trick. It might be fun too.

Ellen Dibble

The PBS show American Experience broadcast part 5 tonight, part 5 of “Abraham and Mary Lincoln: A House Divided,” which is the lead-up to the second presidential campaign,1863-1864, where McClellan was running to overturn the emancipation proclamation, saying the war had been about keeping the union, not about freeing the slaves, and the political ads were showing Lincoln as incompetent and the widow maker of 500,000 widows. �
The president doubled down to try for enough victories to convince people to re-elect him. Since the Gettysburg memorial address (November 1863 I think), he had framed the war for the nation as a rebirth of the founding principles of equality, and he called up 300,000 more union soldiers to be drafted. And a large delegation comes from Illinois, his home state — this is what I am thinking of in responding here — and those Illinois men tell Lincoln in person that he has bled that state dry and they are not about to sacrifice any more of the young men. The idea at the time is that if Lincoln will retract the emancipation proclamation, the South will return to the Union, and this is the kind of compromise that will end the war. This makes an especial impression on me since I have a great grandfather from Illinois who fought in the Civil War on the Union side. Anyway, Lincoln impressed upon them with all the moral and emotional force of one in his position that it was the people of Illinois who had urged the arming of Fort Sumter, and even urged terrorist advances against the secessionists. Who are the Illinois people now to withhold their support when it is most needed? He was more than firm. And the film suggests that the quantity of blood spilled more or less sealed the need to underscore the higher principle being fought for (which resonates with the position paper of a certain Norwegian of the right fringe, but anyway), the higher ideals versus the secession of states. I’m thinking where is Abraham Lincoln when we need him to address the freshman Republican House caucus, steely, sure. Budgets are not about blood, not our blood at any rate…
- Yar
  
  Ellen, I think the comparison to Lincoln is appropriate, I expect that President Obama may have his Lincoln moment when congress fails to raise the debt ceiling and he declares an emergency and raises it on his own, using the 14th amendment as justification. http://www.npr.org/news/graphics/2011/07/gr-falling-wealth-624.gif
  The graph above shows who has lost the largest percentage of their wealth for the crisis caused by greedy banks and Wall street. The graph is part of a story on Morning edition. http://www.npr.org/2011/07/26/138688135/study-shows-racial-wealth-gap-grows-wider
  
  My question in comparing now to Lincoln’s, are we blindly heading toward civil war again? The civil war was about the right to exploitation, with current corporate laws those rights have been awarded to groups of individuals. Corporations have replace the white ruling class of Lincoln’s time and they have carved out special rights to exploit the common worker. We decided it is wrong to exploit based on race in 1865, now it is time to end exploitation based on economic class. This is at the root of the debate: Should a worker earn a living wage, have an old age pension, and have access to adequate healthcare in return for their labor? Does a job that doesn’t provide a living wage add to our GDP or does it take away from it? These are issues that are under the table in the debt and deficit fight.
  
  When the gap between rich and poor becomes too great, history has shown time and again that the lightening bolt of anarchy strikes. It is in the best interest of all to step away without violence. That must involve reducing the gaps between rich and poor! That can be done though inflation, or taxes or revolution, but it will be done. How close are we to the breaking point? Will we get struck by lightening or will we treat or working class better, after all they are who’s labor creates our wealth.
  - GLH
    
    Emancipation today is about abolishing wage slavery and debt peonage, a yoke across the back of 80% of Americans. Yar gets it, but Obama doesn’t. The Traitor-Party advocates for wage slavery in service to the Oligarchy. Be an Abolitionist!
    - Mark S.
      
      More and more, I’m thinking, hoping and praying for revolution.
  - GLH
    
    Emancipation today is about abolishing wage slavery and debt peonage, a yoke across the back of 80% of Americans. Yar gets it, but Obama doesn’t. The Traitor-Party advocates for wage slavery in service to the Oligarchy. Be an Abolitionist!
  - GLH
    
    Emancipation today is about abolishing wage slavery and debt peonage, a yoke across the back of 80% of Americans. Yar gets it, but Obama doesn’t. The Traitor-Party advocates for wage slavery in service to the Oligarchy. Be an Abolitionist!
  - Ellen Dibble
    
    I thought the president has Repeatedly laid out your argument about the America’s class that is almost untouchably successful taking advantage of the American system, its Wall Street, its educated workers, its infrastructure, its support for capitalist expansion of many sorts, its laws, its tax structure. I get it, I get it. He pointed to it in a few choice sentences last night as well.
    It seems to me Lincoln took another tack (with another century, and other issues) and said something like: “You brought about this situation, you asked for this war, you asked for this commitment; now I/you/we are in this struggle; ante up.”
    The equivalent argument would go something like: “You Republicans were on board for funding the Iraq war; you were not over there fighting; but are you there for the paying for it? If not right now, then in a measured way over the next quarter century? If not, why not? You Republicans were on board for making the new pharmaceuticals available to seniors in a way that benefitted American pharmaceutical companies a well. Your seniors have lived off that benefit while those drugs were under patent; now are you going to help pay for that? In a planned and measured way? Or are you going to pretend you didn’t drive us to that?”
    “It’s time to stand up for your own commitments.”
    I don’t think the modern Lincoln has to do this alone. If the Tea Party faction is reading the Zeitgeist, they’ll get a dose of the same from plenty of us.
    - Steve
      
      From whence the wisdom to produce another Lincoln?
  - Ellen Dibble
    
    I thought the president has Repeatedly laid out your argument about the America’s class that is almost untouchably successful taking advantage of the American system, its Wall Street, its educated workers, its infrastructure, its support for capitalist expansion of many sorts, its laws, its tax structure. I get it, I get it. He pointed to it in a few choice sentences last night as well.
    It seems to me Lincoln took another tack (with another century, and other issues) and said something like: “You brought about this situation, you asked for this war, you asked for this commitment; now I/you/we are in this struggle; ante up.”
    The equivalent argument would go something like: “You Republicans were on board for funding the Iraq war; you were not over there fighting; but are you there for the paying for it? If not right now, then in a measured way over the next quarter century? If not, why not? You Republicans were on board for making the new pharmaceuticals available to seniors in a way that benefitted American pharmaceutical companies a well. Your seniors have lived off that benefit while those drugs were under patent; now are you going to help pay for that? In a planned and measured way? Or are you going to pretend you didn’t drive us to that?”
    “It’s time to stand up for your own commitments.”
    I don’t think the modern Lincoln has to do this alone. If the Tea Party faction is reading the Zeitgeist, they’ll get a dose of the same from plenty of us.
  - Ellen Dibble
    
    I thought the president has Repeatedly laid out your argument about the America’s class that is almost untouchably successful taking advantage of the American system, its Wall Street, its educated workers, its infrastructure, its support for capitalist expansion of many sorts, its laws, its tax structure. I get it, I get it. He pointed to it in a few choice sentences last night as well.
    It seems to me Lincoln took another tack (with another century, and other issues) and said something like: “You brought about this situation, you asked for this war, you asked for this commitment; now I/you/we are in this struggle; ante up.”
    The equivalent argument would go something like: “You Republicans were on board for funding the Iraq war; you were not over there fighting; but are you there for the paying for it? If not right now, then in a measured way over the next quarter century? If not, why not? You Republicans were on board for making the new pharmaceuticals available to seniors in a way that benefitted American pharmaceutical companies a well. Your seniors have lived off that benefit while those drugs were under patent; now are you going to help pay for that? In a planned and measured way? Or are you going to pretend you didn’t drive us to that?”
    “It’s time to stand up for your own commitments.”
    I don’t think the modern Lincoln has to do this alone. If the Tea Party faction is reading the Zeitgeist, they’ll get a dose of the same from plenty of us.
  - Steve
    
    Thank you for your thought provking posts.
    
    I think there may be several stages that will be traveled between
    inflation-taxes-revolution.
    
    Subterfuge and misinformation being one.
    
    Many in the ruling classes seek to insulate themselves not only from the squalor they create but also from the day to day management/contact with those lower born. For example, think of the private police agencies prevalent throughout the later half of the nineteenth century hired from the working poor to control the working poor. Even the motive/origin of Civil Service exams and merit based emploment reforms may have been designed to in part insulate workers from their growing allegiance to machine politics.
  - Steve
    
    Thank you for your thought provking posts.
    
    I think there may be several stages that will be traveled between
    inflation-taxes-revolution.
    
    Subterfuge and misinformation being one.
    
    Many in the ruling classes seek to insulate themselves not only from the squalor they create but also from the day to day management/contact with those lower born. For example, think of the private police agencies prevalent throughout the later half of the nineteenth century hired from the working poor to control the working poor. Even the motive/origin of Civil Service exams and merit based emploment reforms may have been designed to in part insulate workers from their growing allegiance to machine politics.
  - Steve
    
    Thank you for your thought provking posts.
    
    I think there may be several stages that will be traveled between
    inflation-taxes-revolution.
    
    Subterfuge and misinformation being one.
    
    Many in the ruling classes seek to insulate themselves not only from the squalor they create but also from the day to day management/contact with those lower born. For example, think of the private police agencies prevalent throughout the later half of the nineteenth century hired from the working poor to control the working poor. Even the motive/origin of Civil Service exams and merit based emploment reforms may have been designed to in part insulate workers from their growing allegiance to machine politics.
- GLH
  
  That Mary Lincoln wanted to run the household like a government, so she put on her green tie and nearly cost Abe the presidency.
  - Ellen Dibble
    
    It was interesting that Abe did not “want to burden” Mary with the issues he was dealing with as president. The film offered a psychological explanation for Mary’s shopping and her concern to keep the debts incurred secret from Abe: She could control the spending (on clothes mainly, I guess), but she couldn’t control any of the rest. Apparently she couldn’t even know about the rest, because she was “protected” from it. Anyway, the postulated explanation was that obsessing about spending and debt protected her from getting lost in things she couldn’t control and largely wasn’t being informed of.
    Lincoln apparently felt quite alone in the responsibility for emancipating the slaves and a lot of the suffering to soldiers and their families, and could not envision being happy in the future. If they had a more modern marriage — or maybe if Mary had been made of more sinewy emotional fabric to begin with — then we wouldn’t have the fingerprint of one individual, Abe, on that war. I’m not sure what we’d have instead.
- GLH
  
  That Mary Lincoln wanted to run the household like a government, so she put on her green tie and nearly cost Abe the presidency.
- GLH
  
  That Mary Lincoln wanted to run the household like a government, so she put on her green tie and nearly cost Abe the presidency.
GLH

An occupation of DC (Freedom Square) is being organized to begin Oct. 6. (Google it) Racism plays a strong role in undermining Obama. Traitor-Party leaders are counting on hate among older people. I doubt it is there in sufficient strength. Of course, the very Obama (a corporate Obedient) who needs an occupation of Washington could turn Syrian when we get there. When you answer to the Oligarchy crimes against humanity are just another marketing tool.
GLH

An occupation of DC (Freedom Square) is being organized to begin Oct. 6. (Google it) Racism plays a strong role in undermining Obama. Traitor-Party leaders are counting on hate among older people. I doubt it is there in sufficient strength. Of course, the very Obama (a corporate Obedient) who needs an occupation of Washington could turn Syrian when we get there. When you answer to the Oligarchy crimes against humanity are just another marketing tool.
GLH

An occupation of DC (Freedom Square) is being organized to begin Oct. 6. (Google it) Racism plays a strong role in undermining Obama. Traitor-Party leaders are counting on hate among older people. I doubt it is there in sufficient strength. Of course, the very Obama (a corporate Obedient) who needs an occupation of Washington could turn Syrian when we get there. When you answer to the Oligarchy crimes against humanity are just another marketing tool.

Jbandm781

“This Is No time for Games” by Peggy Noonan (review, July
16) Ms. Noonan attempts to make the case that Americans are nostalgic for old
America; a time when people were nice to each other and we felt safe. I agree
it is helpful to reflect on inspirational communicators like Kennedy, Reagan
and Clinton, as they spoke directly to us about their personal vision for
America’s future. What Ms. Noonan
doesn’t understand is that Independent voters have been patiently sitting in
silence for too long and we are tired of the old political games that
continually take America to the brink of crisis. Our democracy was created on set of
principles that require compromise. Term limits, balanced budget amendments and
assigning commissions to make tough decisions only serve as “side-tracks.” Former Senator, Chuck Hagel was right-on when
he said, elected officials must come to Washington to “govern, find solutions,
and solve problems.” Unfortunately, we
have elected officials who only have one goal in mind – retain power and get
re-elected. Ms. Noonan, not all voters want
to go back in time to the 1970’s. The rigorous Monday-Thursday work schedule is
the excuse pundits use to justify why congress is so dysfunctional. I believe
America is engaged in a USA “spring” of the generations where congressional members
have different values and goals for America. We are witness to the old and
powerful lobbyists prolonging the inevitable, as they are unwilling to disengage
authority. Americans over age 50, must transition power and influence, as it is
now time for our children to become accountable and take the lead. Americans
understand that cooperation is an essential interaction for our species. As a fifty four year old only mom and working
professional, it is time for me to begin my new role as advisor. I reflect on a band from my youth that has
begun the transformation. The band
Journey has replaced their lead vocal with a passionate young Filipino singer,
Arnel Pineda. Congressional leadership must also begin this inevitable
process. What a legacy for the originating
band members to transition honorably and mentor their replacements. The changeover in band members will ensure
that their music will endure for the young and old to enjoy. In 2012, independent voters will be very
selective and identify leaders who will explore new ideas, and to seek out
opportunities that will lift America from rehab. Leaders must respectfully communicate a plan
that will re-invent America the Beautiful. Don’t stop believing.

Maria Rella

Boise, Idaho

nj

The Orange One checks in with Rush before his own members. What’s wrong with this picture?

Boehner briefed Limbaugh on debt plan

Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) outlined the GOP’s debt-ceiling plan to conservative commentator Rush Limbaugh on Monday before showing it to his conference.

On Monday during his radio program, Limbaugh talked about the call he received from Boehner. Limbaugh’s support of the plan would be advantageous to Republicans because it might help rally the conservative base.

—snipped

nj

Oops, forgot the link:

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/173311-boehner-briefed-limbaugh-on-debt-plan?page=3#comments
Chris

Take notice America. Your leaders are bought and paid for by the criminal rich.
- GLH
  
  Some of the posters on this site are bought and paid for by the criminal rich. Others are operatives in the covert security apparatus.
  - TFRX
    
    Hey, one could get serfs to fight for their lord in the middle ages. But nobody’s dumb enough to do that as freed men now, are they?
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      Unfortunately, yes. There are also drug-addicts that will fight for whoever supplies the drugs.
           There are illegal aliens that would fight for whoever pays them a little more!�
           There are people that are in an economic vise, with family members needing health-care, that would fight for money!�
           There are poor workers, that think the rich create jobs, out of altruism, that would fight for the rich.
  - TFRX
    
    Hey, one could get serfs to fight for their lord in the middle ages. But nobody’s dumb enough to do that as freed men now, are they?
  - TFRX
    
    Hey, one could get serfs to fight for their lord in the middle ages. But nobody’s dumb enough to do that as freed men now, are they?
  - TFRX
    
    Hey, one could get serfs to fight for their lord in the middle ages. But nobody’s dumb enough to do that as freed men now, are they?
- GLH
  
  Some of the posters on this site are bought and paid for by the criminal rich. Others are operatives in the covert security apparatus.

Terry Tree Tree

DISGUSTING!!! Republicans have never sank this low before! They are the ones that got seven Debt Limit raises,in the recent past, with two wars ‘off budget’, Medicare Prescription Plan that wasn’t paid for, and many other things they were putting off until later! Each of them should PROVE they are serious about spending cuts, by cutting spending on two major programs, in their constituency, that they have historically supported! Would their rich citizen corporations buy them elections, if the Republicans cut Corporate Welfare, in ALL its guises?

Gary

Without a hint of irony, Obama said that ALL of the presidents before him have raised the debt ceiling. Yes, we know, Obama…we know. That’s the problem.

Steve

Why are we talking about “a broken government” and “a broken Washington”? We’ve essentially had the same structure of government for generations, and, however flawed, it has usually worked. What’s “broken” about the system now is that we have a party (the Tea-Bagged Republicans) who refuse to let a fairly elected president do his job. Americans elected Obama for a reason, but a minority of well-funded extremists have decided they know better than the voters and have made it their stated mission to prevent him from governing. That’s what’s “broken”: the connection between the voting public and the powers that govern. For all of our sakes (Liberals, Conservatives, and Centrists alike) lets hope Obama wins this manufactured crisis.

william

The elections last November don’t matter?
- Anonymous
  
  They absolutely do. They represent the installation of the “keep government out of my Medicare” element to positions of authority. Incompetence based on faux principles was inevitable.
  - TFRX
    
    …and every anti-women’s health and anti-gay/lesbian bill brought up in state leges and in Congress since then shows where their priorities are.
  - TFRX
    
    …and every anti-women’s health and anti-gay/lesbian bill brought up in state leges and in Congress since then shows where their priorities are.
  - TFRX
    
    …and every anti-women’s health and anti-gay/lesbian bill brought up in state leges and in Congress since then shows where their priorities are.
  - TFRX
    
    …and every anti-women’s health and anti-gay/lesbian bill brought up in state leges and in Congress since then shows where their priorities are.
- Anonymous
  
  They absolutely do. They represent the installation of the “keep government out of my Medicare” element to positions of authority. Incompetence based on faux principles was inevitable.
- Terry Tree Tree
  
  They would, if MORE MONEY had not been spent, than prior Presidential election cycles. Most wins for Republicans were where several times the money spent for Democrat candidates, was spent supporting the Republican. Money bought the position, NOT the candidate, or platform!
  - william
    
    You are saying the billion dollars Obama collected to get elected means he bought his position?
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      2010 was first election after 5 Supreme Court (Justices?) said, without seeing the Birth Certificates of foreign corporations, that they are ‘citizens’, and can spend on U.S. elections without limit! They DID, with RECORD SPENDING!! They bought inaccurate ‘attack ads’, and a lot of other harmful tactics, to buy their chosen candidate into offices.
    - william
      
      Obama collected millions of dollars from overseas and that was never looked into by the election commission. Obama did not use attack ads? Even Bill Clinton complained about the race card being used on him. Was the MSM fair and balanced on the 08 election? Or in the tank for Obama?
    - TFRX
      
      “Was the MSM fair and balanced in 2008?”
      
      Tell us what you consider media crit, and I’ll know your answer. I’m too busy going over my greatest hits of everything which was Such Good News For Republicans:
      
      Just five seconds’ thought brings up McCain being discovered on TV in NYC after blowing off David Letterman. Sarah Palin going rogue. The GOP stopping their efforts in Michigan.
      
      But the MSM was hell-bent to fluff McCain’s chances right up to 10:59pm Eastern Time on election night 2008.
- Terry Tree Tree
  
  They would, if MORE MONEY had not been spent, than prior Presidential election cycles. Most wins for Republicans were where several times the money spent for Democrat candidates, was spent supporting the Republican. Money bought the position, NOT the candidate, or platform!

Fredlinskip

The corporations and mega-wealthy presently sitting on trillions not using any of it in any way to benefit employment or economy, must be just loving how the debate has shifted from those actually responsible for our recent financial crisis and who actually ended up with what used to be in nation’s treasury. Even though it ’s rare you hear from any media outlet much argument for the position that the wealthiest amongst should share a greater burden of tax burden, still polls have shown majority of Americans from BOTH PARTIES agree that they should. This is really quite a feat considering the amount of propaganda to the contrary from so many sources. One of the arguments we always hear is that, if you want more taxes of any sort you’re a socialist. Tax rate for the wealthiest since early 1900’s have averaged over 60%. Since about 90% of the time, tax rates for the wealthiest were higher than now, apparently for last hundred years most of the time we were all a bunch of pinko commis. Imagine that and all this time I thought we’d been a democracy. GOP believes we need tax cuts for wealthy when economic times are good (Like right after Clinton) and when times are bad (after W). That doesn’t change- only their arguments do. If the economy and employment were now great, you know GOP would be saying, “see we told you those tax cuts were great”. They haven’t noticed the opposite has happened????

Guest-22

Could Rep. Boehner’s shiny green tie have shouted “Money!” any louder? I’m sure the moneyed classes he’s prone to protect got his message loud and clear: Protect them above all else, even if it jeopardizes the financial stability of our country for years to come. I do not see any evidence of bipartisanship by him now. It’s clear the GOP does not truly value our country, just the richest people.
I will do what Pres. Obama suggested in his speech and call my Congressional representatives. Congress must NOT weaken Medicare and Social Security, which our seniors have earned and paid into. It should cut military budgets and programs and cut subsidies and entitlements to large corporations and financial institutions instead. Make those corporations and the very wealthy shoulder more of the tax burden, since they’ve been unable to create jobs here in the USA while their taxes have nevertheless been so very low lately.
The Republicans ought to be very, very ashamed of themselves for continuing this stonewalling. Enough’s enough.

JP

It’s unreal how dense these Republicans are… they can’t get it through their thick skulls that in poll after poll, 70-75% of Americans want BOTH Republicans and Dems to compromise on the debt/deficit/revenue; that a majority of Americans blame the Republicans and their policies first and Bush second for our economic mess; that the vast majority of Americans view TPers as extremists determined to destroy our country.

Let these idiots dig their own graves, but don’t let them take us all down with them!

Call your Republican Representative and tell him/her to stand up to the tiny TP cabal which is holding our country hostage to the extremist ideology destroying our nation!

twenty-niner

Americans blame the Republicans and their policies first and Bush second for our economic mess

If this were the case, the Republicans wouldn’t have won 63 house seats, 5 senate seats, 6 governorships, and numerous state elections less than a year ago. Manufactured or not, the Tea Party has finally brought the issue of unsustainable deficits to the fore in a big way. Now I agree that taxes should go up for high earners, and many loopholes should be closed, but this also needs to be coupled with spending cuts to cover any remaining shortfall.
- Thinknaboutit
  
  That “supporters of the Tea Party” are proud of the destruction to our country a default would bring is pathetic, all in the name of preserving loopholes for the corporations. I’m not sure how such a fascist political movement has gained traction in the United States, it is truly historic, almost as historic as having our first African American President. I’m thankful nobody in my family has been brainwashed by these Kochs brothers, and good to see you aren’t fooled by them either twenty-niner.
  - Michael
    
    “ I’m not sure how such a fascist political movement has gained traction in the United States”
    
    Reason? it’s that (supposed) liberal media that helped them, when they came out with racist signs, incoherent logic, the claim the Tea party consisted of Liberals, Con’s and independents the MSM (for fear for being called the L word) bought it, promoted it and gave massive about of press and airtime to such group. Instead of calling it what it was a astro turf re-branding of republicans to embarrassed to be called republicans the media allowed them to bs,threaten, and even call for violent revolution with very little probing questions.
    
    See Onpoint show with two tea party guess one from Texas and the other trying to hock his flags.
    - GLH
      
      There is a cadre of right wing Christian officers in our military who stand ready to launch a coup when the Oligarchs say “GO”. I think the Traitor-Party and the business fascists in Congress know this possibility exists. China is a fascist business dictatorship and Pakistan is often a military dictatorship so a nation of a mere 300 million cowards would be easy to run, just like a chickenhouse. After 9/11 and the Meltdown and some of the Supreme Court shenanigans nothing surprises me. Well, maybe it surprises me that citizens don’t react in protest.
    - GLH
      
      There is a cadre of right wing Christian officers in our military who stand ready to launch a coup when the Oligarchs say “GO”. I think the Traitor-Party and the business fascists in Congress know this possibility exists. China is a fascist business dictatorship and Pakistan is often a military dictatorship so a nation of a mere 300 million cowards would be easy to run, just like a chickenhouse. After 9/11 and the Meltdown and some of the Supreme Court shenanigans nothing surprises me. Well, maybe it surprises me that citizens don’t react in protest.
    - GLH
      
      There is a cadre of right wing Christian officers in our military who stand ready to launch a coup when the Oligarchs say “GO”. I think the Traitor-Party and the business fascists in Congress know this possibility exists. China is a fascist business dictatorship and Pakistan is often a military dictatorship so a nation of a mere 300 million cowards would be easy to run, just like a chickenhouse. After 9/11 and the Meltdown and some of the Supreme Court shenanigans nothing surprises me. Well, maybe it surprises me that citizens don’t react in protest.
- JP
  
  It’s wasn’t hard for these TPers to get elected in RED states, that still has nothing to do with what the MAJORITY of Americans think of these pea-brains.
- JP
  
  It’s wasn’t hard for these TPers to get elected in RED states, that still has nothing to do with what the MAJORITY of Americans think of these pea-brains.
- JP
  
  It’s wasn’t hard for these TPers to get elected in RED states, that still has nothing to do with what the MAJORITY of Americans think of these pea-brains.
- JP Too
  
  So they got some TPers elected in their little podunk districts… so what?
  
  What does that have to do with what most Americans think?
- JP Too
  
  So they got some TPers elected in their little podunk districts… so what?
  
  What does that have to do with what most Americans think?
- JP Too
  
  So they got some TPers elected in their little podunk districts… so what?
  
  What does that have to do with what most Americans think?
- JP
  
  Yep, these boneheads get elected in some hick districts, but didn’t take the senate and don’t have the presidency, yet somehow the majority of Americans and the majority of government (still run by Dems) doesn’t count.
  
  Americans left Dems in control of the majority of government because they know there is still plenty of Republican mess left to clean up!
- JP
  
  Yep, these boneheads get elected in some hick districts, but didn’t take the senate and don’t have the presidency, yet somehow the majority of Americans and the majority of government (still run by Dems) doesn’t count.
  
  Americans left Dems in control of the majority of government because they know there is still plenty of Republican mess left to clean up!
- JP
  
  Yep, these boneheads get elected in some hick districts, but didn’t take the senate and don’t have the presidency, yet somehow the majority of Americans and the majority of government (still run by Dems) doesn’t count.
  
  Americans left Dems in control of the majority of government because they know there is still plenty of Republican mess left to clean up!
- Terry Tree Tree
  
  How many TP’s offer to cut their OWN pet projects, or pork for their OWN constituency? How many TP’s offer to cut pork for their OWN contributors, or lobbyiests?�
  How can we take them serious?
- Terry Tree Tree
  
  How many TP’s offer to cut their OWN pet projects, or pork for their OWN constituency? How many TP’s offer to cut pork for their OWN contributors, or lobbyiests?�
  How can we take them serious?
- Terry Tree Tree
  
  How many TP’s offer to cut their OWN pet projects, or pork for their OWN constituency? How many TP’s offer to cut pork for their OWN contributors, or lobbyiests?�
  How can we take them serious?

Thinknaboutit

This is what has broken our government.

When American colonists declared independence from England in 1776, they also freed themselves from control by English corporations that extracted their wealth and dominated trade. After fighting a revolution to end this exploitation, our country’s founders retained a healthy fear of corporate power and wisely limited corporations exclusively to a business role. Corporations were forbidden from attempting to influence elections, public policy, and other realms of civic society.Initially, the privilege of incorporation was granted selectively to enable activities that benefited the public, such as construction of roads or canals. Enabling shareholders to profit was seen as a means to that end.The states also imposed conditions (some of which remain on the books, though unused) like these: Corporate charters (licenses to exist) were granted for a limited time and could be revoked promptly for violating laws.Corporations could engage only in activities necessary to fulfill their chartered purpose.Corporations could not own stock in other corporations nor own any property that was not essential to fulfilling their chartered purpose.Corporations were often terminated if they exceeded their authority or caused public harm.Owners and managers were responsible for criminal acts committed on the job.Corporations could not make any political or charitable contributions nor spend money to influence law-making.Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_origin_and_history_of_corporations#ixzz1TCFqZkqu

Cornelia Gibbs

While we spend so much time in US Debt … We feel sorry for the events in
Norway, but those kids have sort of invited trouble. It was their fault to be
anit-israel. Nobody has forced them to like Palestinians.http://radiopatriot.wordpress.com/2011/07/23/norwegian-campsite-utoya-was-socialist-and-anti-israel/
Saddam has messed with Israel. And then Libya’s Gaddafi. Both are in deep regret
now.Before that, it was the Foreign Minister of Sweden, Anna Lindht, who
suggested that Swedish people should Boycott Israel. She paid with her
life.

Cornelia Gibbs

While we spend so much time in US Debt … We feel sorry for the events in Norway, but those kids have sort of invited trouble. It was their fault to be anit-israel. Nobody has forced them to like Palestinians.

http://radiopatriot.wordpress.com/2011/07/23/norwegian-campsite-utoya-was-socialist-and-anti-israel/

Saddam has messed with Israel. And then Libya’s Gaddafi. Both are in deep regret now.

Before that, it was the Foreign Minister of Sweden, Anna Lindht, who suggested that Swedish people should Boycott Israel. She paid with her life.

Nobody Messes with Tel-Aviv.

Anonymous

In 2006 the Senate and the House changed hands.
In 2008 the White House switched.
In 2010 the House changed again.
The last 3 elections have been wave elections, as voters tried one party, then the other, hoping for a solution.

The problem is not something as vague as “government is broken”.
The specific problem is the Senate. It acts to prevent change and accountability and is profoundly undemocratic.

The Senate rules on holds and filibusters are arbitrary. They are not in the Constitution. There is no reason that the Senate could not function like the House, with simple majorities required to do business.

The existence of these arbitrary rules allows a minority to prevent the majority from governing. That is profoundly undemocratic and means that there is no real accountability, because a party that “wins” an election doesn’t actually get to govern as if it had.

The Stimulus Bill was too small because it needed 60 votes.

The Health Care bill took too long because it needed 60 votes.
We can’t get a jobs bill because it needs 60 votes.
We are about to see Boehner’s bill fail in the House because the Tea Party wing of the party sees no need to compromise as long as the Republicans in the Senate can stop Reid’s bill from getting a vote in the Senate.
The 41 most conservative senators represent states with about 10% of the population of the US, and they only need to get half that 10% to vote for them. That means that 5% of the American electorate can prevent the rest of the Senate from even voting:http://www.dailykos.com/story/…

Cory

Some of the waves were because we are a fickle and feckless electorate. We vote for whoever promises a “bluer shade of white”.
Cory

Some of the waves were because we are a fickle and feckless electorate. We vote for whoever promises a “bluer shade of white”.
nj

NW, if you run for office, you have my full support!

Chris

Folks, do you get it yet?

They want this crash. You are going to have your wages lowered much much, more when this is over.

The rich are going to own everything and you will be a life-long debt slave.

william

Broken government? So is this Public Radio finally admitting that “big government” does not work and needs a massive downsizing or rightsizing?

nj

“Downsizing” is a simplistic, rather mindless way to approach a complex problem; a set of complex problems, actually.

Size is but one factor, but internal rules as to how the branches work, laws that govern campaign spending, excessive corporate influence, damaging effect of “free-trade” legislation, etc., etc. need to change.

This is but one reason why the Baggers are mostly trivial and irrelevant to any real solution(s).
Anonymous

Didn’t big guvmint save hundreds of thousands of jobs related, directly and indirectly, to the auto industry? And did I not read that Chrysler has already paid their loan off? And is not GM rebounding as well? You consider that a failure? You would rather see thousands out of work, and two honored American companies gone so that foreign owned companies could gobble up more of our market?

Didn’t big guvmint build the interstate highways that revolutionized commerce in this country?

Didn’t big guvment save the financial system from total collapse?

Here’s something to think about. China, which will soon enough be the preeminent global power, is big guvment on steroids. Why? Because they studied history and figured out that was how America became a superpower. We are the opposite now, more like a banana republic counting pennies, with every man, woman and child looking out only for themselves.

Sure, let’s downsize the government and not bother with infrastructure upgrades or public works projects. We can all vacation in China (as I have) when we want to see new transit systems, cutting edge, energy efficient factories, or a growing middle class. At least we know the military and the NSA will be well taken care of. It’s just getting hard to know exactly what we think is so valuable that they are defending…
Anonymous

Didn’t big guvmint save hundreds of thousands of jobs related, directly and indirectly, to the auto industry? And did I not read that Chrysler has already paid their loan off? And is not GM rebounding as well? You consider that a failure? You would rather see thousands out of work, and two honored American companies gone so that foreign owned companies could gobble up more of our market?

Didn’t big guvmint build the interstate highways that revolutionized commerce in this country?

Didn’t big guvment save the financial system from total collapse?

Here’s something to think about. China, which will soon enough be the preeminent global power, is big guvment on steroids. Why? Because they studied history and figured out that was how America became a superpower. We are the opposite now, more like a banana republic counting pennies, with every man, woman and child looking out only for themselves.

Sure, let’s downsize the government and not bother with infrastructure upgrades or public works projects. We can all vacation in China (as I have) when we want to see new transit systems, cutting edge, energy efficient factories, or a growing middle class. At least we know the military and the NSA will be well taken care of. It’s just getting hard to know exactly what we think is so valuable that they are defending…
Anonymous

Didn’t big guvmint save hundreds of thousands of jobs related, directly and indirectly, to the auto industry? And did I not read that Chrysler has already paid their loan off? And is not GM rebounding as well? You consider that a failure? You would rather see thousands out of work, and two honored American companies gone so that foreign owned companies could gobble up more of our market?

Didn’t big guvmint build the interstate highways that revolutionized commerce in this country?

Didn’t big guvment save the financial system from total collapse?

Here’s something to think about. China, which will soon enough be the preeminent global power, is big guvment on steroids. Why? Because they studied history and figured out that was how America became a superpower. We are the opposite now, more like a banana republic counting pennies, with every man, woman and child looking out only for themselves.

Sure, let’s downsize the government and not bother with infrastructure upgrades or public works projects. We can all vacation in China (as I have) when we want to see new transit systems, cutting edge, energy efficient factories, or a growing middle class. At least we know the military and the NSA will be well taken care of. It’s just getting hard to know exactly what we think is so valuable that they are defending…
Terry Tree Tree

Government run by GREEDY individuals and Corporations of ANY size is broken government. Government attacked and distracted by people bent on its disabling, is broken government!
Terry Tree Tree

Government run by GREEDY individuals and Corporations of ANY size is broken government. Government attacked and distracted by people bent on its disabling, is broken government!
Terry Tree Tree

Government run by GREEDY individuals and Corporations of ANY size is broken government. Government attacked and distracted by people bent on its disabling, is broken government!
Terry Tree Tree

Government run by GREEDY individuals and Corporations of ANY size is broken government. Government attacked and distracted by people bent on its disabling, is broken government!
Terry Tree Tree

Government run by GREEDY individuals and Corporations of ANY size is broken government. Government attacked and distracted by people bent on its disabling, is broken government!
TFRX

Uh, when one party wants to destroy governance, in this system, they pretty much can.

That’s been demonstrated.

Enough of the false equivalence.
- william
  
  So when the Republicans pushed for the Civil Rights Act you would have said they are trying to destroy governance? The idea that we cannot speak out against Obama and oppose spending plans is nonsense.
  - TFRX
    
    Yeah, not even bothersome enough a gnat to swat at.
    
    Record # of filibusters, holds, ordinary governance is now a panic because of right-wing WATBs.
    
    You have all of Fox Propaganda to speak out with. You’re invited to retreat to some other, more ignorant corner of the internet.

http://richardsnotes.org Richard

The Republicans and especially the Tea Party contingent will take the country down to make Obama look bad. The American people are waking up too late (we elected these idiots).

The problem isn’t just the Republican congress, it is us and we need to take responsibility for it. If people only get involved after its obvious their benefits will be cut maybe we deserve what we get.

We need to get literate and vote these people out of office. Recall them if necessary.

No matter how this standoff comes out it’s obvious that Americans don’t understand that when Tea Party folks say smaller government they mean cutting real benefits.

I have seen the problem and it is us. If we can’t elect people who will do the right thing then we deserve what we get.

The real problem is the dumbing down of America. We are so ####ed.

Gregg

The Tea Party has changed the debate. There will be no tax hikes in whatever deal is reached. It’s a beautiful thing to see patriotic Americans rise up and demand accountability. Just beautiful.

Michael

Thank jebus for the tea party, just look at how great there doing in creating jobs…..oops.
- Gregg
  
  That’s Obama’s job but he’s not up to it.
  - Michael
    
    so congress has no place in creating jobs? lol, I read your previous post how it was congress during the Clinton era that actually created jobs not Clinton now it’s just the president.
    
    btw, didn’t this 2010 congress run of creating jobs? oh wait that’s the president’s job. funny how they would run on something they have no intention of during.
    - Gregg
      
      The “Tea Party” is not really a party, it’s a movement. It’s not part of Congress but the influence on both parties is dramatic. Hope that helps.
    - GLH
      
      Considering how it is the invention of oligarchic corporate interests I’d compare it to patent medicine. It was something hatemongers and fearfactories needed to get out their s**t. So it was a laxative prescribed by the Koch brothers. Yes, in that way, it is a movement. Quit smelling, wipe and flush!
    - GLH
      
      Considering how it is the invention of oligarchic corporate interests I’d compare it to patent medicine. It was something hatemongers and fearfactories needed to get out their s**t. So it was a laxative prescribed by the Koch brothers. Yes, in that way, it is a movement. Quit smelling, wipe and flush!
    - GLH
      
      Considering how it is the invention of oligarchic corporate interests I’d compare it to patent medicine. It was something hatemongers and fearfactories needed to get out their s**t. So it was a laxative prescribed by the Koch brothers. Yes, in that way, it is a movement. Quit smelling, wipe and flush!
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      EVASION!
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      EVASION!
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      EVASION!
    - Gregg
      
      The “Tea Party” is not really a party, it’s a movement. It’s not part of Congress but the influence on both parties is dramatic. Hope that helps.
  - Michael
    
    so congress has no place in creating jobs? lol, I read your previous post how it was congress during the Clinton era that actually created jobs not Clinton now it’s just the president.
    
    btw, didn’t this 2010 congress run of creating jobs? oh wait that’s the president’s job. funny how they would run on something they have no intention of during.
  - Anonymous
    
    So you think one person in the government is the primary job creator? Sounds like you’re a socialist. I’m still waiting for you to explain your comment on a different show setting out what Obama policies you claimed are responsible for “destroying the job market”.
    - Gregg
      
      Obamacare, Green jobs disaster, moratoriums on drilling, the uncertainty caused by waiting two years to extend the tax cuts, failed “stimulus”, threats of tax hikes, onerous regulations, telling GM to make lemons no one wants, telling Boeing not top expand in SC, etc.
    - Gregg
      
      Obamacare, Green jobs disaster, moratoriums on drilling, the uncertainty caused by waiting two years to extend the tax cuts, failed “stimulus”, threats of tax hikes, onerous regulations, telling GM to make lemons no one wants, telling Boeing not top expand in SC, etc.
    - Gregg
      
      Obamacare, Green jobs disaster, moratoriums on drilling, the uncertainty caused by waiting two years to extend the tax cuts, failed “stimulus”, threats of tax hikes, onerous regulations, telling GM to make lemons no one wants, telling Boeing not top expand in SC, etc.
  - Anonymous
    
    So you think one person in the government is the primary job creator? Sounds like you’re a socialist. I’m still waiting for you to explain your comment on a different show setting out what Obama policies you claimed are responsible for “destroying the job market”.
  - Anonymous
    
    So you think one person in the government is the primary job creator? Sounds like you’re a socialist. I’m still waiting for you to explain your comment on a different show setting out what Obama policies you claimed are responsible for “destroying the job market”.
  - Terry Tree Tree
    
    It’s everybody’s job that got tax-cuts, for so many years now, high enough to create jobs!
  - Terry Tree Tree
    
    It’s everybody’s job that got tax-cuts, for so many years now, high enough to create jobs!
  - Anonymous
    
    You mean like the thousands and thousands of people employed directly and indirectly by the auto industry that he saved? And the loans for which are being paid off ahead of schedule? Good point. That was not only an excellent job, it was a great moral decision as well. Would you suggest it would be better if GM and Chrysler, two august American brands, had just gone away, their market positions to be captured by German, Japanese and Korean owned brands?
    
    Plus, he unfortunately saved the jobs of thousands of investment and banking slugs on the Street, too.
    
    Oh yeah, and the thousands of avoided layoffs at the state and local level.
    
    Failure of imagination is really the problem. If you can’t imagine other possible scenarios, it is tempting to think that the existing reality is as bad as it can get. A common misconception and rather common.
  - Anonymous
    
    You mean like the thousands and thousands of people employed directly and indirectly by the auto industry that he saved? And the loans for which are being paid off ahead of schedule? Good point. That was not only an excellent job, it was a great moral decision as well. Would you suggest it would be better if GM and Chrysler, two august American brands, had just gone away, their market positions to be captured by German, Japanese and Korean owned brands?
    
    Plus, he unfortunately saved the jobs of thousands of investment and banking slugs on the Street, too.
    
    Oh yeah, and the thousands of avoided layoffs at the state and local level.
    
    Failure of imagination is really the problem. If you can’t imagine other possible scenarios, it is tempting to think that the existing reality is as bad as it can get. A common misconception and rather common.
  - Anonymous
    
    You mean like the thousands and thousands of people employed directly and indirectly by the auto industry that he saved? And the loans for which are being paid off ahead of schedule? Good point. That was not only an excellent job, it was a great moral decision as well. Would you suggest it would be better if GM and Chrysler, two august American brands, had just gone away, their market positions to be captured by German, Japanese and Korean owned brands?
    
    Plus, he unfortunately saved the jobs of thousands of investment and banking slugs on the Street, too.
    
    Oh yeah, and the thousands of avoided layoffs at the state and local level.
    
    Failure of imagination is really the problem. If you can’t imagine other possible scenarios, it is tempting to think that the existing reality is as bad as it can get. A common misconception and rather common.
  - Anonymous
    
    You mean like the thousands and thousands of people employed directly and indirectly by the auto industry that he saved? And the loans for which are being paid off ahead of schedule? Good point. That was not only an excellent job, it was a great moral decision as well. Would you suggest it would be better if GM and Chrysler, two august American brands, had just gone away, their market positions to be captured by German, Japanese and Korean owned brands?
    
    Plus, he unfortunately saved the jobs of thousands of investment and banking slugs on the Street, too.
    
    Oh yeah, and the thousands of avoided layoffs at the state and local level.
    
    Failure of imagination is really the problem. If you can’t imagine other possible scenarios, it is tempting to think that the existing reality is as bad as it can get. A common misconception and rather common.
  - Anonymous
    
    You mean like the thousands and thousands of people employed directly and indirectly by the auto industry that he saved? And the loans for which are being paid off ahead of schedule? Good point. That was not only an excellent job, it was a great moral decision as well. Would you suggest it would be better if GM and Chrysler, two august American brands, had just gone away, their market positions to be captured by German, Japanese and Korean owned brands?
    
    Plus, he unfortunately saved the jobs of thousands of investment and banking slugs on the Street, too.
    
    Oh yeah, and the thousands of avoided layoffs at the state and local level.
    
    Failure of imagination is really the problem. If you can’t imagine other possible scenarios, it is tempting to think that the existing reality is as bad as it can get. A common misconception and rather common.
  - TFRX
    
    Over the most obstructinist Congress in history, with record holds and filibusters?
    
    What we learned is that one side can grind everything to a halt if they wish. Then sit back and blame “government”, the generic.
Michael

Thank jebus for the tea party, just look at how great there doing in creating jobs…..oops.
Michael

Or the first time in history the teaparty is willing to have the U.S. default on it’s debt(not pay our bills) this to me show fiscal responsibility by the teaparty. But hey they did increase foreign aid, new attacks on abortion, gays and passed the P.Act again, failed to cut off funding for obama’s libyan war.

these guys are great. who would thought that the teaparty would fail at such a grand scale? And showing once and for all that government under the teaparty(or republicans) doesn’t work.
- Gregg
  
  “The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit
  is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government
  can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing
  financial assistance from foreign countries to
  finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt
  weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the
  buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad
  choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America
  has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve
  better.”
  - Gregg
    
    No one wants to touch this one.
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      We TOUCHED it, and you EVADED.
    - nj
      
      The foot stomping is so cute!
  - Gregg
    
    No one wants to touch this one.
  - Gregg
    
    No one wants to touch this one.
  - Terry Tree Tree
    
    Which Republican, or TEA partier, does the buck STOP with?�
    Which one openly admits their own part in this mess, and has PERSONALLY made SACRIFICES, to repair it?
    - Gregg
      
      The one who said the above.
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      His personal sacrifices? His admission of personal part in this mess?
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      His personal sacrifices? His admission of personal part in this mess?
    - Gregg
      
      The one who said the above.
Michael

Or the first time in history the teaparty is willing to have the U.S. default on it’s debt(not pay our bills) this to me show fiscal responsibility by the teaparty. But hey they did increase foreign aid, new attacks on abortion, gays and passed the P.Act again, failed to cut off funding for obama’s libyan war.

these guys are great. who would thought that the teaparty would fail at such a grand scale? And showing once and for all that government under the teaparty(or republicans) doesn’t work.
Michael

Just to add on the grand tea-party,

for the first time in history people will not be paying increase taxes during war time. Isn’t that the best way to support our troops is by not taking any fiscal burden or responsibility and instead charge it on our china express. for the wars we involved them in?
- Anonymous
  
  Yeah, but people like Gregg really, truly, “support the troops”. Why, they will even put a yellow magnet on their car to prove it. They just refuse to pay for the support of our military. Kind of like deadbeat parent with their car plastered with “proud parent” bumper stickers. In a word, a phony.
Anonymous

“accountability” is the exact opposite of what we’re getting.
Anonymous

“accountability” is the exact opposite of what we’re getting.
Anonymous

“accountability” is the exact opposite of what we’re getting.
Cory

The teaparty has a long way to go to shake the toothless, inbred, fearfull and hateful images it conjures to most thinking Americans. The practice of ignorant intransigence and inflexibility doesn’t help.
Cory

The teaparty has a long way to go to shake the toothless, inbred, fearfull and hateful images it conjures to most thinking Americans. The practice of ignorant intransigence and inflexibility doesn’t help.
Cory

The teaparty has a long way to go to shake the toothless, inbred, fearfull and hateful images it conjures to most thinking Americans. The practice of ignorant intransigence and inflexibility doesn’t help.
nj

“Just beautiful”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S38VioxnBaI
- Gregg
  
  O please!
  - nj
    
    My thoughts exactly!
nj

“Just beautiful”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S38VioxnBaI
nj

“Just beautiful”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S38VioxnBaI
nj

“Just beautiful”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S38VioxnBaI

Anonymous

I’ld like to see some fact based decision making. The Tea Party’s anger-based ideology is doing the country no service. The Tea baggers are making this country look like it is being ruled by a bunch of five year olds… they are playing chicken with an economic disaster; even respected retired Republican statesmen are calling their behaviour irresponsible and reckless.

The republican leadership needs to step up and show some real leadership and stop the tail from wagging the dog.

Gregg

I’d say love is a more accurate word to describe tea party motivations. Love of country. If we don’t get our fiscal house in order we are doomed.
- Cory
  
  Sometimes love just ain’t enough.
  - Gregg
    
    But love and spending cuts may be.
  - Gregg
    
    But love and spending cuts may be.
  - Gregg
    
    But love and spending cuts may be.
  - TFRX
    
    Aw, they apologized real nice after hitting us this time. Don’t you see they’ve really, really changed?
- Cory
  
  Sometimes love just ain’t enough.
- Cory
  
  Sometimes love just ain’t enough.
- Terry Tree Tree
  
     Love of country is LESS regulation on the banking industry, that caused the housing bubble disaster, due to lack of regulation and non-enforcement of applicable regulations?�
     Less regulation of the oil industry, Deepwater Horizon was a victim of less regulation, and non-enforcement, along with the entire Gulf of Mexico Coast, and some of the Eastern Seaboard.�
     Less regulation of the mining industry killed, and will kill miners, who are trying to make an honest living.
     Love of country is ignoring the people, and the policies that got us into this mess, and blaming those handed this mess?
      Love of country is helping polluters pollute even more than they pollute now, because they fund so many distractions, such as the TEA party?
  - Mark S.
    
    Agreed. The Republican Party is evil and the Tea Baggers are maniacally evil. If love of country is destroying it’s economy and throwing millions more out of work, then you are nothing more than a traitor and deserve to be treated as one. You are as evil as Bin Laden, since his overarching goal was not to try to kill all the infidels, but rather to crash the Western economy. Looks like the fanatical al-Teabaggers are going to do for Bin Laden in death what he could not accomplish in life. Once we pick up the pieces of the calamity the Repugnants are going to visit upon us, they are going to pay a price for this, hopefully by dissolving as a viable political party and being replaced by something else. Something sane. Note to the wimp On Point moderators: Is this post nicey nice enough for you or are you going to delete me again?
- Thinknaboutit
  
  More footage of the loving atmosphere that motivates Tea Party gatherings.
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDED_vGkTfA&feature=related
  
  What next, the “they were blinded by love” defense?
  - Gregg
    
    Lame.
    - Thinknaboutit
      
      I agree, these people are disgusting. Glad to see you finally see the light.
    - nj
      
      Yes, the Baggers are.
  - Mark S.
    
    They are monsters. Plain and simple. I’ve thought that ever since I saw the tape of the monsters ridiculing and tossing money at the old man with Parkinson’s who could not stand up with his sign opposed to them during a D.C. demonstration last year. They are insane, cruel and vicious, and very scared and cowardly, white people whose day is passing whether they like it or not. My dad died of Parkinson’s. Had I been at that D.C. demonstration, I would still be in jail today. With pleasure…
Gregg

I’d say love is a more accurate word to describe tea party motivations. Love of country. If we don’t get our fiscal house in order we are doomed.
Gregg

I’d say love is a more accurate word to describe tea party motivations. Love of country. If we don’t get our fiscal house in order we are doomed.

Anonymous

I’ld like to see some fact based decision making. The Tea Party’s anger-based ideology is doing the country no service. The Tea baggers are making this country look like it is being ruled by a bunch of five year olds… they are playing chicken with an economic disaster; even respected retired Republican statesmen are calling their behaviour irresponsible and reckless.

The republican leadership needs to step up and show some real leadership and stop the tail from wagging the dog.

Winston Smith

Let’s be honest with ourselves…allowing the deficit to grow to $14.5 trillion dollars with no likelihood of that figure plateauing or even being reduced represents default for all practical purposes. None of the current proposals address this problem. What we need to do is pass a balanced budget amendment (which all states expect Vermont have considered a wise fiscal step to take) and then take a balanced approach (reduce government spending significantly and raise taxes on the rich and corporations) until the budget is balanced and actually results in a surplus that we can use to begin reducing the national debt. If we don’t do it now, it will just be more painful later when we are in a catastrophic situation like Greece. Everything needs to be on the table: ridiculously generous government pensions and benefits (even for those that have already retired), defense, farm subsidies, oil subsidies, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. There is plenty of blame to go around to both Democrats and Republicans. A balanced budget is the only thing that will work…The legislative and executive branches of the government need to be hit over the head with a hammer.

Cory

I don’t disagree, but is our political climate amiable to this solution?

The only thing I am uncomfortable about is breaking existing pension promises. People built their realities on these assumptions. I’d much rather see gradual change applied to new hires who’ll know the rules up front.
- http://richardsnotes.org Richard
  
  The term for what you describe Cory is “moral hazard” and I for one would be royally pissed if I don’t get back what I’ve paid into social security and medicare.
  
  It’s a myth that these programs have become insolvent on their own. They have worked for many generations because we’ve paid for the wars we’ve entered.
  
  Only during the Bush/Cheney years did we enter two wars AND pass a tax cut on the top 2% of earners.
  
  Bush/Cheney broke the country. Never forget this.
- http://richardsnotes.org Richard
  
  The term for what you describe Cory is “moral hazard” and I for one would be royally pissed if I don’t get back what I’ve paid into social security and medicare.
  
  It’s a myth that these programs have become insolvent on their own. They have worked for many generations because we’ve paid for the wars we’ve entered.
  
  Only during the Bush/Cheney years did we enter two wars AND pass a tax cut on the top 2% of earners.
  
  Bush/Cheney broke the country. Never forget this.
- http://richardsnotes.org Richard
  
  The term for what you describe Cory is “moral hazard” and I for one would be royally pissed if I don’t get back what I’ve paid into social security and medicare.
  
  It’s a myth that these programs have become insolvent on their own. They have worked for many generations because we’ve paid for the wars we’ve entered.
  
  Only during the Bush/Cheney years did we enter two wars AND pass a tax cut on the top 2% of earners.
  
  Bush/Cheney broke the country. Never forget this.
- http://richardsnotes.org Richard
  
  The term for what you describe Cory is “moral hazard” and I for one would be royally pissed if I don’t get back what I’ve paid into social security and medicare.
  
  It’s a myth that these programs have become insolvent on their own. They have worked for many generations because we’ve paid for the wars we’ve entered.
  
  Only during the Bush/Cheney years did we enter two wars AND pass a tax cut on the top 2% of earners.
  
  Bush/Cheney broke the country. Never forget this.
Cory

I don’t disagree, but is our political climate amiable to this solution?

The only thing I am uncomfortable about is breaking existing pension promises. People built their realities on these assumptions. I’d much rather see gradual change applied to new hires who’ll know the rules up front.
Cory

I don’t disagree, but is our political climate amiable to this solution?

The only thing I am uncomfortable about is breaking existing pension promises. People built their realities on these assumptions. I’d much rather see gradual change applied to new hires who’ll know the rules up front.
Terry Tree Tree

How can a balanced budget amendment work for a National Government? How do you deal with unexpected wars, Man-made disasters, natural disasters, etc…?   How do you get there from here, when the people that created this mess, PROFIT from it, while calling for SACRIFICE from those SUFFERING from it already?
     If those that got tax-cuts large enough to create a job, or jobs, HAD created jobs with that money, we wouldn’t be in this mess! Why is their word better than then?�
    Corporate Welfare, and other subsidies for companies and individuals that don’t need them, is worse than the Welfare to individuals that can’t or won’t work!
Terry Tree Tree

How can a balanced budget amendment work for a National Government? How do you deal with unexpected wars, Man-made disasters, natural disasters, etc…?   How do you get there from here, when the people that created this mess, PROFIT from it, while calling for SACRIFICE from those SUFFERING from it already?
     If those that got tax-cuts large enough to create a job, or jobs, HAD created jobs with that money, we wouldn’t be in this mess! Why is their word better than then?�
    Corporate Welfare, and other subsidies for companies and individuals that don’t need them, is worse than the Welfare to individuals that can’t or won’t work!
Ellen Dibble

A balanced budget is like an iron corset, which is too bad since our current waistline is far greater than the proposed iron corset. We won’t be able to digest our food, or change position. We’ll sit like Dresden dolls, fragile as fragile could be. We’ll have to live on a liquid diet, and heaven help us if we eat something we’re allergic to and suffer gas and bloating. Oh, the heartache. A better plan is a careful diet, with no more steak (subsidizing the rich and certain corporations) and no more candy (waste, fraud).
GLH

The expressed goal of the fascist cabal beginning with Rotten Reagan was “starving the Beast” by breaking the bank. Democrats are the “ggod cop” in the subjugation of democracy so they went along for the ride. It was easy to bankrupt a one-party state by handing out goodies to the already wealthy and powerful in exchange for smaller favors in return. Most people realize that the Traitor-Party seats in Congress were bought by Oligarchs. They are as shameful as the business fascists appointed to the Supreme Court. The day of hiding corruption behind faux law and procedure is at an end because the majority of people will lose rights and benefits, and they are waking up. A coup is the only choice of Oligarchs in retaining control. The debt ceiling impasse is a precipitant to a military takeover, and maybe a Christian Taliban code for social control. Result: A hybrid between Iran and China. “Conservatives” are praying for it.
Dpweber83

“allowing the deficit to grow to $14.5 trillion dollars with no likelihood of that figure plateauing or even being reduced represents default for all practical purposes.”

That’s absolutely not true. Do I have to explain to you what interest rates are?

You’re arguing from a transparently false premise.

-dan
Boston, MA
- Winston Smith
  
  I do not understand what you disagree with. With the two plans on the table, they would simply slow down the increase in the annual deficit and national debt. So the amount of interest that we pay and the amount of debt that we have would continue to grow and grow. At some point, especially given how week our economy has been for the past several years, the world will realize that continuing to lend the U.S. money is like the emperor with no clothes….$20 trillion, $25 trillion is a ridiculous amount of money that we will never pay back. It will just keep growing until the world realizes that it is unsustainable, we are just printing money, and the whole system collapses. It looks like that day has arrived in Greece, is on the door in Italy, and is approaching us faster and sooner than many people (not me) expected. I’m surprised that the system didn’t collapse a decade ago.
  - Winston Smith
    
    weak, not week. Sorry for the misspelling.
  - Terry Tree Tree
    
    A decade ago, ‘W’ promised to make the Budget Surplus bigger!
- Winston Smith
  
  I do not understand what you disagree with. With the two plans on the table, they would simply slow down the increase in the annual deficit and national debt. So the amount of interest that we pay and the amount of debt that we have would continue to grow and grow. At some point, especially given how week our economy has been for the past several years, the world will realize that continuing to lend the U.S. money is like the emperor with no clothes….$20 trillion, $25 trillion is a ridiculous amount of money that we will never pay back. It will just keep growing until the world realizes that it is unsustainable, we are just printing money, and the whole system collapses. It looks like that day has arrived in Greece, is on the door in Italy, and is approaching us faster and sooner than many people (not me) expected. I’m surprised that the system didn’t collapse a decade ago.
- Winston Smith
  
  I do not understand what you disagree with. With the two plans on the table, they would simply slow down the increase in the annual deficit and national debt. So the amount of interest that we pay and the amount of debt that we have would continue to grow and grow. At some point, especially given how week our economy has been for the past several years, the world will realize that continuing to lend the U.S. money is like the emperor with no clothes….$20 trillion, $25 trillion is a ridiculous amount of money that we will never pay back. It will just keep growing until the world realizes that it is unsustainable, we are just printing money, and the whole system collapses. It looks like that day has arrived in Greece, is on the door in Italy, and is approaching us faster and sooner than many people (not me) expected. I’m surprised that the system didn’t collapse a decade ago.
- Winston Smith
  
  I do not understand what you disagree with. With the two plans on the table, they would simply slow down the increase in the annual deficit and national debt. So the amount of interest that we pay and the amount of debt that we have would continue to grow and grow. At some point, especially given how week our economy has been for the past several years, the world will realize that continuing to lend the U.S. money is like the emperor with no clothes….$20 trillion, $25 trillion is a ridiculous amount of money that we will never pay back. It will just keep growing until the world realizes that it is unsustainable, we are just printing money, and the whole system collapses. It looks like that day has arrived in Greece, is on the door in Italy, and is approaching us faster and sooner than many people (not me) expected. I’m surprised that the system didn’t collapse a decade ago.
- Winston Smith
  
  I do not understand what you disagree with. With the two plans on the table, they would simply slow down the increase in the annual deficit and national debt. So the amount of interest that we pay and the amount of debt that we have would continue to grow and grow. At some point, especially given how week our economy has been for the past several years, the world will realize that continuing to lend the U.S. money is like the emperor with no clothes….$20 trillion, $25 trillion is a ridiculous amount of money that we will never pay back. It will just keep growing until the world realizes that it is unsustainable, we are just printing money, and the whole system collapses. It looks like that day has arrived in Greece, is on the door in Italy, and is approaching us faster and sooner than many people (not me) expected. I’m surprised that the system didn’t collapse a decade ago.
Dpweber83

“allowing the deficit to grow to $14.5 trillion dollars with no likelihood of that figure plateauing or even being reduced represents default for all practical purposes.”

That’s absolutely not true. Do I have to explain to you what interest rates are?

You’re arguing from a transparently false premise.

-dan
Boston, MA

Winston Smith

Let’s be honest with ourselves…allowing the deficit to grow to $14.5 trillion dollars with no likelihood of that figure plateauing or even being reduced represents default for all practical purposes. None of the current proposals address this problem. What we need to do is pass a balanced budget amendment (which all states expect Vermont have considered a wise fiscal step to take) and then take a balanced approach (reduce government spending significantly and raise taxes on the rich and corporations) until the budget is balanced and actually results in a surplus that we can use to begin reducing the national debt. If we don’t do it now, it will just be more painful later when we are in a catastrophic situation like Greece. Everything needs to be on the table: ridiculously generous government pensions and benefits (even for those that have already retired), defense, farm subsidies, oil subsidies, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. There is plenty of blame to go around to both Democrats and Republicans. A balanced budget is the only thing that will work…The legislative and executive branches of the government need to be hit over the head with a hammer.

Winston Smith

Let’s be honest with ourselves…allowing the deficit to grow to $14.5 trillion dollars with no likelihood of that figure plateauing or even being reduced represents default for all practical purposes. None of the current proposals address this problem. What we need to do is pass a balanced budget amendment (which all states expect Vermont have considered a wise fiscal step to take) and then take a balanced approach (reduce government spending significantly and raise taxes on the rich and corporations) until the budget is balanced and actually results in a surplus that we can use to begin reducing the national debt. If we don’t do it now, it will just be more painful later when we are in a catastrophic situation like Greece. Everything needs to be on the table: ridiculously generous government pensions and benefits (even for those that have already retired), defense, farm subsidies, oil subsidies, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. There is plenty of blame to go around to both Democrats and Republicans. A balanced budget is the only thing that will work…The legislative and executive branches of the government need to be hit over the head with a hammer.

Cory

No one is asking the rich to become poor, just to pay more taxes. We aren’t asking you to walk a mile in another man’s shoes, just to walk 1.1 miles in your own.

Gregg

It would solve nothing but it would make you feel better.
- Cory
  
  So?
- Cory
  
  So?
- Cory
  
  So?
- Terry Tree Tree
  
  HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH? $Millionaires lust to be $Billiionaires, $Billionaires lust to be $Trillionaires, most at the cost of any REAL personal relationships, which give meaning to life. If someone had the childhood dream of ‘All the money in the world’, what would they do that would be significant? How much of it could they do, with what they have? If you take ALL the marbles and go home, then what? To most children, the fun is in the playing, the interaction, and the attempting to get better. None pushing this increasing divide, can be Christian, because they have bloated their camel larger than an elephant.
  - Gregg
    
    So, if someone achieves wealth then they have no soul so the government should take their money? That’s a pretty cynical view.
    - Ellen Dibble
      
      Gregg, if you have enough money to understand this, consider: Money begets money. It earns interest. Invested well, it can boost new enterprises, here and abroad. If you want to reduce your taxes, you can give a ton of money to a university, or a museum, or feed-the-children. You can hire lawyers to deal with your taxes. You can hire investors to make sure you maximize your profits. There is a built-in engine for growth inside being reasonably successful, which multiplies as that engine grows.
      On the other hand, the same individual, with the same skills and determination, who is starting out, healthy as a horse but without more money than a foundational job can provide, that man or woman, if he or she wants to start creating a bit of independence, a business or his or her own, or a nest egg that could grow, or a homestead that would increase in value (presumably), this individual is not pulling in interest and dividends beyond need every week. This individual is doing just the reverse, paying interest, taking a risk with every step out into independence and security.
      So there is a BIG drag on those below, and a BIG wind pushing from behind those at the top. �
      This is why you need a government to prevent the obvious unfortunate result.
    - Ggergmusic
      
      Are you aware that one of the “loopholes” Obama want’s to eliminate is the charitable deduction?
      
      I don’t disagree with your premise but people have choice to work hard, invest early, not have children before they can afford them and eventually earn interest. They should be applauded.
    - Ellen Dibble
      
      People have children very early because it is a way to ensure some government support. People who have acquired a skill and are in a position to support the children themselves are indeed thinking the way you are: “I’ll invest early and hope to make it through the obvious coming struggles. I wouldn’t want to inflict that on any children whatsoever.” My response to that, yesterday, was: “How are you going to keep yourself going? A pair of eyes looking to you is the best motivator. And you can create your own team [with a family]. And consider, what looks impossible can be managed. The generation before us made it through World War II. And we made it through the Cold War,” with instant eradication over our heads. She heard me. Others heard me. But as I came home, I thought, I didn’t tell her about the plague. We’ve made it through lots and lots. She wanted to worry about some child chopped up and put in a freezer. I told her there are plenty of children who do grow up. More grow up now than 100 years ago. Look in the records. Child one dies at one year. Child two survives, but the mother dies.
      We have a lot to count on in terms of resilience.
    - Thinknaboutit
      
      So charitable deduction is reason people give to charities, without the deduction it’s just not worth it?
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      That’s the only reason of the GREEDY rich!! They COULD pay their taxes, give charitable donations, and STILL live like a king! They ONLY give charitable donations, for the publicity, to enable them to separate MORE people from their money , and the tax deductions!
    - Ggergmusic
      
      Are you aware that one of the “loopholes” Obama want’s to eliminate is the charitable deduction?
      
      I don’t disagree with your premise but people have choice to work hard, invest early, not have children before they can afford them and eventually earn interest. They should be applauded.
    - Ggergmusic
      
      Are you aware that one of the “loopholes” Obama want’s to eliminate is the charitable deduction?
      
      I don’t disagree with your premise but people have choice to work hard, invest early, not have children before they can afford them and eventually earn interest. They should be applauded.
    - Ggergmusic
      
      Are you aware that one of the “loopholes” Obama want’s to eliminate is the charitable deduction?
      
      I don’t disagree with your premise but people have choice to work hard, invest early, not have children before they can afford them and eventually earn interest. They should be applauded.
    - Ggergmusic
      
      Are you aware that one of the “loopholes” Obama want’s to eliminate is the charitable deduction?
      
      I don’t disagree with your premise but people have choice to work hard, invest early, not have children before they can afford them and eventually earn interest. They should be applauded.
    - Ggergmusic
      
      Are you aware that one of the “loopholes” Obama want’s to eliminate is the charitable deduction?
      
      I don’t disagree with your premise but people have choice to work hard, invest early, not have children before they can afford them and eventually earn interest. They should be applauded.
    - Ggergmusic
      
      Are you aware that one of the “loopholes” Obama want’s to eliminate is the charitable deduction?
      
      I don’t disagree with your premise but people have choice to work hard, invest early, not have children before they can afford them and eventually earn interest. They should be applauded.
    - Ellen Dibble
      
      Gregg, if you have enough money to understand this, consider: Money begets money. It earns interest. Invested well, it can boost new enterprises, here and abroad. If you want to reduce your taxes, you can give a ton of money to a university, or a museum, or feed-the-children. You can hire lawyers to deal with your taxes. You can hire investors to make sure you maximize your profits. There is a built-in engine for growth inside being reasonably successful, which multiplies as that engine grows.
      On the other hand, the same individual, with the same skills and determination, who is starting out, healthy as a horse but without more money than a foundational job can provide, that man or woman, if he or she wants to start creating a bit of independence, a business or his or her own, or a nest egg that could grow, or a homestead that would increase in value (presumably), this individual is not pulling in interest and dividends beyond need every week. This individual is doing just the reverse, paying interest, taking a risk with every step out into independence and security.
      So there is a BIG drag on those below, and a BIG wind pushing from behind those at the top. �
      This is why you need a government to prevent the obvious unfortunate result.
    - Ellen Dibble
      
      Gregg, if you have enough money to understand this, consider: Money begets money. It earns interest. Invested well, it can boost new enterprises, here and abroad. If you want to reduce your taxes, you can give a ton of money to a university, or a museum, or feed-the-children. You can hire lawyers to deal with your taxes. You can hire investors to make sure you maximize your profits. There is a built-in engine for growth inside being reasonably successful, which multiplies as that engine grows.
      On the other hand, the same individual, with the same skills and determination, who is starting out, healthy as a horse but without more money than a foundational job can provide, that man or woman, if he or she wants to start creating a bit of independence, a business or his or her own, or a nest egg that could grow, or a homestead that would increase in value (presumably), this individual is not pulling in interest and dividends beyond need every week. This individual is doing just the reverse, paying interest, taking a risk with every step out into independence and security.
      So there is a BIG drag on those below, and a BIG wind pushing from behind those at the top. �
      This is why you need a government to prevent the obvious unfortunate result.
    - Terry Tree Tree
      
      NOT near as cynical as “Might Makes Right” or ‘Criminal Wealth, by Banksters that deliberately caused Housing Bubble, CEOs that get HUGE pay, for bankrupting the company that employs them, etc…, is more important than workers they shafted!
  - Gregg
    
    So, if someone achieves wealth then they have no soul so the government should take their money? That’s a pretty cynical view.
  - Gregg
    
    So, if someone achieves wealth then they have no soul so the government should take their money? That’s a pretty cynical view.
- Terry Tree Tree
  
  HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH? $Millionaires lust to be $Billiionaires, $Billionaires lust to be $Trillionaires, most at the cost of any REAL personal relationships, which give meaning to life. If someone had the childhood dream of ‘All the money in the world’, what would they do that would be significant? How much of it could they do, with what they have? If you take ALL the marbles and go home, then what? To most children, the fun is in the playing, the interaction, and the attempting to get better. None pushing this increasing divide, can be Christian, because they have bloated their camel larger than an elephant.
- Terry Tree Tree
  
  HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH? $Millionaires lust to be $Billiionaires, $Billionaires lust to be $Trillionaires, most at the cost of any REAL personal relationships, which give meaning to life. If someone had the childhood dream of ‘All the money in the world’, what would they do that would be significant? How much of it could they do, with what they have? If you take ALL the marbles and go home, then what? To most children, the fun is in the playing, the interaction, and the attempting to get better. None pushing this increasing divide, can be Christian, because they have bloated their camel larger than an elephant.
- Blurmy
  
  It wouldn’t solve the whole problem, but simply get us closer. We need spending cuts and more revenue. Alan Simpson’s take is a start at pragmatism. We all need to give a little more.
- Dpweber83
  
  Repealing the Bush tax cuts on the top brackets alone would make up for about 1/4 of the current deficit. That’s “nothing” in your book?
  
  -dan
  Boston, MA
  - Gregg
    
    No it wouldn’t. Not even close. Take ALL of their money, still not enough.
    - TFRX
      
      Yep. No one thing is the panacea, so don’t try anything.
      
      And nice alarmist add-on there. “Take ALL of their money…”
    - Gregg
      
      Who said “don’t try anything”? Alarmist.
      
      The point about “All the money” is it isn’t enough. No one advocates that.
    - TFRX
      
      Who said “Take ALL of their money…”? Nancy Pelosi? The Genuine Socialist, Bernie Sanders?
      
      It’s a simple step, it’s in line with recent history when the rich didn’t suffer (actually did pretty well), and you’re all hepped up against it. That’s a tip-off.
  - Gregg
    
    No it wouldn’t. Not even close. Take ALL of their money, still not enough.
  - Gregg
    
    No it wouldn’t. Not even close. Take ALL of their money, still not enough.
  - Gregg
    
    No it wouldn’t. Not even close. Take ALL of their money, still not enough.
  - Gregg
    
    No it wouldn’t. Not even close. Take ALL of their money, still not enough.
  - Gregg
    
    No it wouldn’t. Not even close. Take ALL of their money, still not enough.
  - Gregg
    
    No it wouldn’t. Not even close. Take ALL of their money, still not enough.
- Dpweber83
  
  Repealing the Bush tax cuts on the top brackets alone would make up for about 1/4 of the current deficit. That’s “nothing” in your book?
  
  -dan
  Boston, MA
Gregg

It would solve nothing but it would make you feel better.
Gregg

It would solve nothing but it would make you feel better.

Cory

No one is asking the rich to become poor, just to pay more taxes. We aren’t asking you to walk a mile in another man’s shoes, just to walk 1.1 miles in your own.

Cory

No one is asking the rich to become poor, just to pay more taxes. We aren’t asking you to walk a mile in another man’s shoes, just to walk 1.1 miles in your own.

Paulaa Jones

Okay, so why did the President last night mention revenues and cutting taxes for the wealthy if it isn’t part of the Boehner or Reid plans?

Paulaa Jones

Okay, so why did the President last night mention revenues and cutting taxes for the wealthy if it isn’t part of the Boehner or Reid plans?

Paulaa Jones

Okay, so why did the President last night mention revenues and cutting taxes for the wealthy if it isn’t part of the Boehner or Reid plans?

Ellen Dibble

You know, I would take myself to Dallas or Oklahoma City or whatever Tea Party district I could identify in order to argue the case of stop Creating The Grand Canyon Between the Haves and the Strugglers — I would argue that to the voters who put these Representatives in Congress. Probably there are people my age with vastly more time than I have, and resources for travel. If I could loan them part of my determination…
However, my impression is that they and their Representatives are not depending on reason. They are not about listening and planning. They are about stonewalling. That is close to a call to arms, something that must be torn up by the roots, not nourished and “educated.”

nj

Understatement of the day: “However, my impression is that they and their Representatives are not depending on reason.”

Note:

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/07/25/278811/lee-admits-he-is-an-extortionist/

“Mike Lee: I Want America’s ‘House To Come Down’ Unless Congress Votes To Rewrite Constitution”

CHRIS MATTHEWS: How many days do you think we have, on the outside, to get this debt ceiling through before we have a problem? How many days?LEE: I don’t know, maybe ten days.MATTHEWS: Okay, in ten days you want to change the United States Constitution by two-thirds vote in both houses? That’s what you’re demanding.LEE: Yes. If possible we can’t change the Constitution just in Congress but we can submit it to the states. Let the states fight it out.MATTHEWS: And you think you’re being reasonable by saying you want a two-thirds vote in the House, which is Republican, and in the Senate which is Democrat. You want the Democratic Senate, by a two-thirds vote, to pass a constitutional amendment or you want the house to come down?LEE: Yes. That’s exactly what I’m saying and I’ve been saying this for six months.The prosecution rests.
nj

Understatement of the day: “However, my impression is that they and their Representatives are not depending on reason.”

Note:

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/07/25/278811/lee-admits-he-is-an-extortionist/

“Mike Lee: I Want America’s ‘House To Come Down’ Unless Congress Votes To Rewrite Constitution”

CHRIS MATTHEWS: How many days do you think we have, on the outside, to get this debt ceiling through before we have a problem? How many days?LEE: I don’t know, maybe ten days.MATTHEWS: Okay, in ten days you want to change the United States Constitution by two-thirds vote in both houses? That’s what you’re demanding.LEE: Yes. If possible we can’t change the Constitution just in Congress but we can submit it to the states. Let the states fight it out.MATTHEWS: And you think you’re being reasonable by saying you want a two-thirds vote in the House, which is Republican, and in the Senate which is Democrat. You want the Democratic Senate, by a two-thirds vote, to pass a constitutional amendment or you want the house to come down?LEE: Yes. That’s exactly what I’m saying and I’ve been saying this for six months.The prosecution rests.
nj

Understatement of the day: “However, my impression is that they and their Representatives are not depending on reason.”

Note:

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/07/25/278811/lee-admits-he-is-an-extortionist/

“Mike Lee: I Want America’s ‘House To Come Down’ Unless Congress Votes To Rewrite Constitution”

CHRIS MATTHEWS: How many days do you think we have, on the outside, to get this debt ceiling through before we have a problem? How many days?LEE: I don’t know, maybe ten days.MATTHEWS: Okay, in ten days you want to change the United States Constitution by two-thirds vote in both houses? That’s what you’re demanding.LEE: Yes. If possible we can’t change the Constitution just in Congress but we can submit it to the states. Let the states fight it out.MATTHEWS: And you think you’re being reasonable by saying you want a two-thirds vote in the House, which is Republican, and in the Senate which is Democrat. You want the Democratic Senate, by a two-thirds vote, to pass a constitutional amendment or you want the house to come down?LEE: Yes. That’s exactly what I’m saying and I’ve been saying this for six months.The prosecution rests.
Chev

You can talk till you are blue in the face you will not change the views / actions of the tea party. The problem is that the tea party people are the more engaged in the political arena right now but I do think the majority of the US population agrees with their politics / course of action. What needs to happen is for the majority of the US population to stand up and call their senator / congressman b/c I honestly believe that the majority of the people out there agree with the president.
- Mark S.
  
  I blame the stupidity, ignorance and low-information slack-jawed cluelessness of the American electorate more than anything else. Because a black president could not fix in two years the steaming pile left to him and the country by an arrogant, empty-suit fratboy during eight years, they had a tantrum and voted in a redneck, hick, Clampett contingent with less intelligence and financial acuity than the clerk in a general store twenty miles off the Interstate.
  
  In particular, when someone on Social Security votes for an idiot like Joe Walsh in my district or that traitor from Utah, don’t expect me to cry when your checks stop. That’s called poetic justice. And you know that a significant cohort of the Tea Baggers’ voters are probably older, white, SS recipients who were afraid of getting a dark-skinned guy in the White House.
  
  So, let’s place a substantial portion of the blame for this disaster where it belongs, on the backs of the dummies who voted against their own interests and for the interests of corporate oligarchs and the rising tide of neo-fascists who are their tools. Thanks a lot, Bubba.
Chev

You can talk till you are blue in the face you will not change the views / actions of the tea party. The problem is that the tea party people are the more engaged in the political arena right now but I do think the majority of the US population agrees with their politics / course of action. What needs to happen is for the majority of the US population to stand up and call their senator / congressman b/c I honestly believe that the majority of the people out there agree with the president.
Chev

You can talk till you are blue in the face you will not change the views / actions of the tea party. The problem is that the tea party people are the more engaged in the political arena right now but I do think the majority of the US population agrees with their politics / course of action. What needs to happen is for the majority of the US population to stand up and call their senator / congressman b/c I honestly believe that the majority of the people out there agree with the president.
Chev

You can talk till you are blue in the face you will not change the views / actions of the tea party. The problem is that the tea party people are the more engaged in the political arena right now but I do think the majority of the US population agrees with their politics / course of action. What needs to happen is for the majority of the US population to stand up and call their senator / congressman b/c I honestly believe that the majority of the people out there agree with the president.
Chev

You can talk till you are blue in the face you will not change the views / actions of the tea party. The problem is that the tea party people are the more engaged in the political arena right now but I do think the majority of the US population agrees with their politics / course of action. What needs to happen is for the majority of the US population to stand up and call their senator / congressman b/c I honestly believe that the majority of the people out there agree with the president.
Anonymous

Because this is a deep, pervasive cultural war much more than a political war, and it goes back decades. On the political side, it is fueled, organized and funded by right wing political movements dating back to the ’30′s and beyond. Come to Oklahoma or Texas and you will likely be talking with the pawns (who are largely not aware of their pawnage) not the chess masters.

Ellen Dibble

You know, I would take myself to Dallas or Oklahoma City or whatever Tea Party district I could identify in order to argue the case of stop Creating The Grand Canyon Between the Haves and the Strugglers — I would argue that to the voters who put these Representatives in Congress. Probably there are people my age with vastly more time than I have, and resources for travel. If I could loan them part of my determination…
However, my impression is that they and their Representatives are not depending on reason. They are not about listening and planning. They are about stonewalling. That is close to a call to arms, something that must be torn up by the roots, not nourished and “educated.”

Blurmy

Our representatives are retreating into demagogic dream worlds on the brink of a truly dismal, and completely unnecessary self inflicted wound to the people of the US. It’s hard to talk to, much less negotiate with, people primed with the arrogance and deafness of unbridled anger.

Gregg

I agree but until Republicans get back the Senate and White House it won’t change.
Gregg

I agree but until Republicans get back the Senate and White House it won’t change.
Gregg

I agree but until Republicans get back the Senate and White House it won’t change.
Gregg

I agree but until Republicans get back the Senate and White House it won’t change.
Gregg

I agree but until Republicans get back the Senate and White House it won’t change.

Anonymous

A perfect example of how Washington is broken is the push for a balanced budget amendment. It gives the illusion of motion when it is clearly unobtainable.

Worse still, it’s a horribly bad idea. It would eliminate the ability of the government to jump start the economy, and recessions would become depressions. But that’s not even the worst of it.

Imagine we’d had a BBA on December 7, 1941.

Ellen Dibble

We would repeal it pronto.
- Terry Tree Tree
  
  In time? Jets and rockets are far faster, and have longer range than 1941 carrier-based prop-planes!!
- Terry Tree Tree
  
  In time? Jets and rockets are far faster, and have longer range than 1941 carrier-based prop-planes!!
Anonymous

Exactly, and guess who the obstructionist where then.
The republicans tried everything to destroy FDR. They only agreed to go to war because of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Before this event they were against anything FDR wanted to do for the economy or to help Britain in it’s war effort.
Anonymous

Exactly, and guess who the obstructionist where then.
The republicans tried everything to destroy FDR. They only agreed to go to war because of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Before this event they were against anything FDR wanted to do for the economy or to help Britain in it’s war effort.
Anonymous

Exactly, and guess who the obstructionist where then.
The republicans tried everything to destroy FDR. They only agreed to go to war because of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Before this event they were against anything FDR wanted to do for the economy or to help Britain in it’s war effort.

Expat Bob in Nassau, Bahamas

Most commentary on the debt ceiling by both The Right Wing and the media have left out the cause of the problem, which was summarized last night by President Obama:

“For the last decade, we have spent more money than we take in. In the year 2000, the government had a budget surplus.
But instead of using it to pay off our debt, the money was spent on trillions of dollars in new tax cuts, while two wars and an expensive prescription drug program were simply added to our nation’s credit card.”

The President’s approach addresses the problem. The GOP’s ignores it altogether.

Dpweber83

I cannot believe this is happening. I place the blame squarely on the Republicans—they could have picked this fight without endangering the value of my meager retirement account.

Fix it. Increase the debt limit, authorize Congress to pay for the appropriations you’ve made, and do it now. Grow. Up.

-dan
Boston, MA

Dpweber83

I cannot believe this is happening. I place the blame squarely on the Republicans—they could have picked this fight without endangering the value of my meager retirement account.

Fix it. Increase the debt limit, authorize Congress to pay for the appropriations you’ve made, and do it now. Grow. Up.

-dan
Boston, MA

GLH

If the People ever wise up and get organized we all know that wealth and income will be capped at a moderate level and that corporate charters will be subject to public approval. As a Progressive I have to believe we learn as we go along. The P-Tardy or Traitor Party is the last gasp of the discredited wealth worship religion called corporate capitalism. Even as humanity faces cascade collapse on several fronts my TV is spouting about “flash sales” where handbags and heels are 85% off. But fewer and fewer people are listening. Fewer still are hearing that old rottening yellow Boehner or corporate shill Obama. I am a neo-Abolitionist (end wage slavery and debt peonage now) and proud of it.

Dpweber83

As a fellow progressive, I implore you to resort to something other than uninventive name-calling.

Or, you could just admit that you have little to no interest in doing the hard and sometimes dirty work needed to achieve your stated goals.

-dan
Boston, MA
- TFRX
  
  Agreed. Let’s not bandy about words like “traitor” until they go all Ollie North on us. Words have meanings.
  - Thinknaboutit
    
    Wether it is their intention or not, the actions of the Tea Party are in fact treasonous. I tend to see it as intentional given all the calls for secession.
    - TFRX
      
      Secession, yes. But there’s too much crazy to just throw it all in a pile and hit it with the metaphorical flamethrower.
      
      There’s so much bat-crappery on the right that we on the left can afford to separate things.
- TFRX
  
  Agreed. Let’s not bandy about words like “traitor” until they go all Ollie North on us. Words have meanings.
Dpweber83

As a fellow progressive, I implore you to resort to something other than uninventive name-calling.

Or, you could just admit that you have little to no interest in doing the hard and sometimes dirty work needed to achieve your stated goals.

-dan
Boston, MA
Dpweber83

As a fellow progressive, I implore you to resort to something other than uninventive name-calling.

Or, you could just admit that you have little to no interest in doing the hard and sometimes dirty work needed to achieve your stated goals.

-dan
Boston, MA

GLH

If the People ever wise up and get organized we all know that wealth and income will be capped at a moderate level and that corporate charters will be subject to public approval. As a Progressive I have to believe we learn as we go along. The P-Tardy or Traitor Party is the last gasp of the discredited wealth worship religion called corporate capitalism. Even as humanity faces cascade collapse on several fronts my TV is spouting about “flash sales” where handbags and heels are 85% off. But fewer and fewer people are listening. Fewer still are hearing that old rottening yellow Boehner or corporate shill Obama. I am a neo-Abolitionist (end wage slavery and debt peonage now) and proud of it.

GLH

If the People ever wise up and get organized we all know that wealth and income will be capped at a moderate level and that corporate charters will be subject to public approval. As a Progressive I have to believe we learn as we go along. The P-Tardy or Traitor Party is the last gasp of the discredited wealth worship religion called corporate capitalism. Even as humanity faces cascade collapse on several fronts my TV is spouting about “flash sales” where handbags and heels are 85% off. But fewer and fewer people are listening. Fewer still are hearing that old rottening yellow Boehner or corporate shill Obama. I am a neo-Abolitionist (end wage slavery and debt peonage now) and proud of it.

GLH

If the People ever wise up and get organized we all know that wealth and income will be capped at a moderate level and that corporate charters will be subject to public approval. As a Progressive I have to believe we learn as we go along. The P-Tardy or Traitor Party is the last gasp of the discredited wealth worship religion called corporate capitalism. Even as humanity faces cascade collapse on several fronts my TV is spouting about “flash sales” where handbags and heels are 85% off. But fewer and fewer people are listening. Fewer still are hearing that old rottening yellow Boehner or corporate shill Obama. I am a neo-Abolitionist (end wage slavery and debt peonage now) and proud of it.

Yar

Does wealth come from the farmer’s bridle in the horses mouth and whip in his hand? Or does it come from the labor of the horse at the plow? In essence, it is both, but our current ideological fight is over the decision of if should we put the horse out to pasture for the winter of his life or if we will work together with the horse to gather in hay for cold winter nights. What responsibility do we have to the citizens who create our national wealth? Do we care more for the farmer then the horse? In our economy they are both human. Fend for yourself is cutting spending, putting up hay is raising taxes. You can starve the animals but they won’t plow your fields next year, and some may even eat you. Our current policies point toward revolution.

BHA in Vermont

Absolutely. The people who BUY the goods and services created by businesses are the ones who make it POSSIBLE for the corporations to MAKE money. No job, no money, no purchases.
BHA in Vermont

Absolutely. The people who BUY the goods and services created by businesses are the ones who make it POSSIBLE for the corporations to MAKE money. No job, no money, no purchases.
BHA in Vermont

Absolutely. The people who BUY the goods and services created by businesses are the ones who make it POSSIBLE for the corporations to MAKE money. No job, no money, no purchases.
Steve

A farming analogy that includes Locke, Jefferson, OT theology and apocolyptic imagery.

Very nice.

Original sources and the synthesis of a fertile mind.

Yar

Does wealth come from the farmer’s bridle in the horses mouth and whip in his hand? Or does it come from the labor of the horse at the plow? In essence, it is both, but our current ideological fight is over the decision of if should we put the horse out to pasture for the winter of his life or if we will work together with the horse to gather in hay for cold winter nights. What responsibility do we have to the citizens who create our national wealth? Do we care more for the farmer then the horse? In our economy they are both human. Fend for yourself is cutting spending, putting up hay is raising taxes. You can starve the animals but they won’t plow your fields next year, and some may even eat you. Our current policies point toward revolution.

Yar

Does wealth come from the farmer’s bridle in the horses mouth and whip in his hand? Or does it come from the labor of the horse at the plow? In essence, it is both, but our current ideological fight is over the decision of if should we put the horse out to pasture for the winter of his life or if we will work together with the horse to gather in hay for cold winter nights. What responsibility do we have to the citizens who create our national wealth? Do we care more for the farmer then the horse? In our economy they are both human. Fend for yourself is cutting spending, putting up hay is raising taxes. You can starve the animals but they won’t plow your fields next year, and some may even eat you. Our current policies point toward revolution.

Yar

Does wealth come from the farmer’s bridle in the horses mouth and whip in his hand? Or does it come from the labor of the horse at the plow? In essence, it is both, but our current ideological fight is over the decision of if should we put the horse out to pasture for the winter of his life or if we will work together with the horse to gather in hay for cold winter nights. What responsibility do we have to the citizens who create our national wealth? Do we care more for the farmer then the horse? In our economy they are both human. Fend for yourself is cutting spending, putting up hay is raising taxes. You can starve the animals but they won’t plow your fields next year, and some may even eat you. Our current policies point toward revolution.

Yar

Does wealth come from the farmer’s bridle in the horses mouth and whip in his hand? Or does it come from the labor of the horse at the plow? In essence, it is both, but our current ideological fight is over the decision of if should we put the horse out to pasture for the winter of his life or if we will work together with the horse to gather in hay for cold winter nights. What responsibility do we have to the citizens who create our national wealth? Do we care more for the farmer then the horse? In our economy they are both human. Fend for yourself is cutting spending, putting up hay is raising taxes. You can starve the animals but they won’t plow your fields next year, and some may even eat you. Our current policies point toward revolution.

Ellen Dibble

I hope Allen Sinai explains the Republican take on corporate misbehavior, the way they relocate offshore, and send jobs overseas, the way the Republicans say we will lose our corporations if we take away their tax advantages. Perhaps we’d be a lot better off without Wall Street and the corporate raiders. Then again, it seems the Obama plan reduces the corporate rates. So I’m confused badly on this.

Ellen Dibble

I hope Allen Sinai explains the Republican take on corporate misbehavior, the way they relocate offshore, and send jobs overseas, the way the Republicans say we will lose our corporations if we take away their tax advantages. Perhaps we’d be a lot better off without Wall Street and the corporate raiders. Then again, it seems the Obama plan reduces the corporate rates. So I’m confused badly on this.

Ellen Dibble

I hope Allen Sinai explains the Republican take on corporate misbehavior, the way they relocate offshore, and send jobs overseas, the way the Republicans say we will lose our corporations if we take away their tax advantages. Perhaps we’d be a lot better off without Wall Street and the corporate raiders. Then again, it seems the Obama plan reduces the corporate rates. So I’m confused badly on this.

Ellen Dibble

I hope Allen Sinai explains the Republican take on corporate misbehavior, the way they relocate offshore, and send jobs overseas, the way the Republicans say we will lose our corporations if we take away their tax advantages. Perhaps we’d be a lot better off without Wall Street and the corporate raiders. Then again, it seems the Obama plan reduces the corporate rates. So I’m confused badly on this.

Ellen Dibble

I hope Allen Sinai explains the Republican take on corporate misbehavior, the way they relocate offshore, and send jobs overseas, the way the Republicans say we will lose our corporations if we take away their tax advantages. Perhaps we’d be a lot better off without Wall Street and the corporate raiders. Then again, it seems the Obama plan reduces the corporate rates. So I’m confused badly on this.

Ellen Dibble

I hope Allen Sinai explains the Republican take on corporate misbehavior, the way they relocate offshore, and send jobs overseas, the way the Republicans say we will lose our corporations if we take away their tax advantages. Perhaps we’d be a lot better off without Wall Street and the corporate raiders. Then again, it seems the Obama plan reduces the corporate rates. So I’m confused badly on this.

Ellen Dibble

I hope Allen Sinai explains the Republican take on corporate misbehavior, the way they relocate offshore, and send jobs overseas, the way the Republicans say we will lose our corporations if we take away their tax advantages. Perhaps we’d be a lot better off without Wall Street and the corporate raiders. Then again, it seems the Obama plan reduces the corporate rates. So I’m confused badly on this.

Ellen Dibble

I hope Allen Sinai explains the Republican take on corporate misbehavior, the way they relocate offshore, and send jobs overseas, the way the Republicans say we will lose our corporations if we take away their tax advantages. Perhaps we’d be a lot better off without Wall Street and the corporate raiders. Then again, it seems the Obama plan reduces the corporate rates. So I’m confused badly on this.

Dpweber83

Let’s go, John Harwood—focus, we need you to bring your A-game today…

-dan
Boston, MA

Guest-22

Once again, WSJ= conservative news organization, Mann from Brookings= conservative “think tank,” and Alfano =a Republican media consultant. Where’s the balance here?

All I can figure is that NPR is bending over backwards to give right-wing voices all the podium time it wants as a way to stave off more cuts to public broadcasting. Tomorrow, I hope we have three left-wing advocates allowed to speak in an equal amount of air time.
- nj
  
  And they still haven’t presented the friggin’ People’s Budget.
  
  Just like Obummer, NPR will cower at the prospect of right-wing criticism rather than stand up and defend fair, strong journalism.
Guest-22

Once again, WSJ= conservative news organization, Mann from Brookings= conservative “think tank,” and Alfano =a Republican media consultant. Where’s the balance here?

All I can figure is that NPR is bending over backwards to give right-wing voices all the podium time it wants as a way to stave off more cuts to public broadcasting. Tomorrow, I hope we have three left-wing advocates allowed to speak in an equal amount of air time.
Guest-22

Once again, WSJ= conservative news organization, Mann from Brookings= conservative “think tank,” and Alfano =a Republican media consultant. Where’s the balance here?

All I can figure is that NPR is bending over backwards to give right-wing voices all the podium time it wants as a way to stave off more cuts to public broadcasting. Tomorrow, I hope we have three left-wing advocates allowed to speak in an equal amount of air time.

Dpweber83

Let’s go, John Harwood—focus, we need you to bring your A-game today…

-dan
Boston, MA

Dpweber83

Let’s go, John Harwood—focus, we need you to bring your A-game today…

-dan
Boston, MA

Dpweber83

Let’s go, John Harwood—focus, we need you to bring your A-game today…

-dan
Boston, MA

Dpweber83

Let’s go, John Harwood—focus, we need you to bring your A-game today…

-dan
Boston, MA

Dpweber83

Let’s go, John Harwood—focus, we need you to bring your A-game today…

-dan
Boston, MA

Dpweber83

Let’s go, John Harwood—focus, we need you to bring your A-game today…

-dan
Boston, MA

1656amati

The far right arm of the House seems to have Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome when it comes to the stewardship of the nation. Clearly the plan is to destroy this administration by bringing our economy to the brink of ruin, so they can then sweep in and save the day. I truly hope our people respond to Obama’s call to contact their representatives and be heard.

BHA in Vermont

The brink of ruin? Bush did that with his unfunded wars.
BHA in Vermont

The brink of ruin? Bush did that with his unfunded wars.
BHA in Vermont

The brink of ruin? Bush did that with his unfunded wars.

1656amati

The far right arm of the House seems to have Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome when it comes to the stewardship of the nation. Clearly the plan is to destroy this administration by bringing our economy to the brink of ruin, so they can then sweep in and save the day. I truly hope our people respond to Obama’s call to contact their representatives and be heard.

1656amati

The far right arm of the House seems to have Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome when it comes to the stewardship of the nation. Clearly the plan is to destroy this administration by bringing our economy to the brink of ruin, so they can then sweep in and save the day. I truly hope our people respond to Obama’s call to contact their representatives and be heard.

1656amati

The far right arm of the House seems to have Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome when it comes to the stewardship of the nation. Clearly the plan is to destroy this administration by bringing our economy to the brink of ruin, so they can then sweep in and save the day. I truly hope our people respond to Obama’s call to contact their representatives and be heard.

1656amati

The far right arm of the House seems to have Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome when it comes to the stewardship of the nation. Clearly the plan is to destroy this administration by bringing our economy to the brink of ruin, so they can then sweep in and save the day. I truly hope our people respond to Obama’s call to contact their representatives and be heard.

jim

I will vote that bogus group, “the tea-party”, out of office on the next election. I want Reagan Democrats and Midwestern Republicans like Kent Conrad in office.

http://richardsnotes.org Richard

The problem is, why in hell did you vote them into office in the first place?
http://richardsnotes.org Richard

The problem is, why in hell did you vote them into office in the first place?

jim

I will vote that bogus group, “the tea-party”, out of office on the next election. I want Reagan Democrats and Midwestern Republicans like Kent Conrad in office.

Jime