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Friday, July 1, 2011 at 10:00 AM EDT
Week In The News: Wildfires, Greece, Debt Ceiling

Tom Gjelten in for Tom Ashbook

The President hammers Congress. The deadly Afghan hotel attack. Wildfires threaten Los Alamos. That and more on the week in the news roundtable.

Greece approved more austerity measures needed to avert default next month, that calmed markets but triggered a second day of riots that left dozens injured. (AP)

Greece approved more austerity measures needed to avert default next month, that calmed markets but triggered a second day of riots that left dozens injured. (AP)

It looks more and more like a game of chicken: President Obama and the Republicans face off over the debt.

In Minnesota, a debt debate shuts down the government. A stunning development in the case of Dominique Strauss Kahn.

Michelle Bachman jumps into the presidential race. Will Texas governor Rick Perry be next?

A big Taliban attack on a hotel in Afghanistan. But it’s Leon Panetta’s problem now. Defense Secretary Robert Gates has retired.

The Greek Parliament approves an austerity plan.

This hour On Point: our weekly news roundtable.

-Tom Gjelten

Guests:

Susan Davis, Congressional correspondent for the National Journal.

Greg Ip, U.S. economics editor for The Economist

Jack Beatty, On Point news analyst

Tom’s Reading List

  • Debt Ceiling debate: “President Obama belittled congressional Republicans for taking vacations amid difficult deficit-reduction talks. He contrasted lawmakers with his young daughters. And he brushed off criticism of his Libya policy as a “fuss” that is all about politics.”
  • Obama press conference: “Who was that combative president? The guy who came out swinging against tax breaks for millionaires and billionaires, for big oil companies, for hedge fund managers, for corporate jet owners?”
  • Same sex marriage: “After months of saying his position on same-sex marriage is “evolving,” President Obama traded that language on Wednesday for comments that stopped just short of endorsing the notion that gay people have the right to marry.”
  • Free trade deals: “President Barack Obama’s plan to win approval of U.S. free trade deals with South Korea, Colombia and Panama faces its first test on Thursday as the Senate Finance Committee takes up the measures.”
  • Afghanistan attack: “Nazir Amini, an Afghan visiting from his home in Germany, had just returned from the buffet with a bowl of ice cream when two men with an AK-47 rifle and a machine gun started shooting guests around the pool at the Intercontinental Hotel, one of the capital’s most fortified buildings.”
  • Greece: “As Greece’s 300 legislators debated, and finally approved, an internationally backed financial-rescue plan with many clear downsides—it will pile pain onto hapless firms and citizens who already pay taxes, for instance, and so subsidise those who do not—some dire pronouncements on the possible consequences of saying “no” to the world were ringing in their ears.”
  • Wildfires: “Residents across New Mexico might be wondering what they did to anger Mother Nature. Ever since 2011 arrived on the scene, the weather has been nothing but ugly, beginning with a terrifying winter and now terrifying fires with the nebulous (though still unlikely) possibility of nuclear contamination.”
 
  • Brett

    Same-sex marriage passed in NY…get used to it, Ed! 

    • Zing

      That was really classy…right up to BUR/NPR standards.

  • Brett

    I guess my comment disappeared…Thanks, DISQUS!!

  • Yar

    When discussing the debt ceiling, please focus on how our political campaign funding system is broken.  Our tax code is written through political contributions.  Tax reform is essential to solving the debt.  While congress teases the debt ceiling snake the inflation bear is going to eat us for lunch.  Government spending is the lid on the pot that keeps our economy from boiling dry.  You want “job killing” legislation, take away public service jobs and see how many communities dry up. 

  • JimmyKl

    Great session for the Supreme Court, very sensible and strongly in favor of free speech.  Only 18% of the cases went along the liberal media’s interpretation of conservative-liberal lines.  Again sensible.

  • Ed

    Because civil unions promote an unacceptable lifestyle, undermine the faith of the Church on holy matrimony, and cause scandal and confusion, Catholics may not participate in civil unions. To do so is a very grave violation of the moral law and, thus, seriously sinful. A civil union can never be accepted as a legitimate alternative to matrimony. Bishop Tobin of Rhode Island. (Also applies to same-sex marriage, of course.)

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Ed,     Catholics tacitly ENDORSE  Child Molesting, by NOT insisting that ALL molesting priests be immediately turned over to the police with jurisdiction, and ALL information, including Vatican secret files be turned over to the same police!!  Personally, I believe that is FAR WORSE than two consenting adults getting married!!!  Child Molesting is a crime that warps the rest of that person’s life!!  MOST of the exposed molesting is homosexual, so Catholics are hypocrites!   Is this just their way to keep priests from marrying?
           Priests have been molesting, from probably the start of the Catholic religion, so who are Catholics to determine what’s right?

    • Anonymous

      “A civil union can never be accepted as a legitimate alternative to matrimony.” — Correct – thanks for making the argument for equal marriage rights.

      Civil marriage rights have nothing to do with what Catholics choose to recognize within their church.  They have the constitutional right to be as bigoted as they would like to be. 

    • Anonymous

      @05618dc53fc1b6a8bb9ac4dbd459f276:disqus  What WILL undermine the faith IN the Church occurs when that church requires belief in something that members of that Church find is patently NOT TRUE. That is why homosexuality is growing in acceptance as people see that they really ARE members of their social and family circles, and homosexuals differ from them in only one aspect (important as it is). Faith in God does not have to suffer in any way when civil unions are allowed.
      It was only the damage that it was doing that caused the Roman Catholic Church to change its position on Galileo Galilei. But that took nearly 400 years. The damage to innocent people who are homosexual will be immense, just as it has been for thousands of years in the past.

      But Ed, don’t expect people here to have the closed mind that you seem to have. Have you even read a REAL scientific paper on the causes of homosexuality? There are many out there, and though no exact cause has yet been identified, there are indications of where the cause(s) will be found.

      What will your attitude be when scientists can create (in animals) homosexuality? My guess will be that you will just deny that it occurred, and you will NOT do anything proactive to enlighten yourself on what the facts are.

      The U.S. Constitution gives you the right and freedom to believe whatever you want; it just does not give you the right to compel others to believe what you want them to believe. This is why the “separation of church and state” exists and is what allowed the Roman Catholic Church to prosper here, against a lot of prejudice by early citizens. And that “separation” will always (unless “revoked”) protect the Roman Catholic Church (and others) from having to bless such unions.

      Just why do you consider civil unions as “promoting an unacceptable lifestyle”? What is so unacceptable about it? Do you have even a casual acquaintance who is homosexual? From your comments here, the likelihood of anything more is not high. But you might know someone from before they “came out,” or you might have a friend with an offspring who is homosexual.

      Is it just blind adherence to Catholic Church teachings that brings you to this point?

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Interesting,  NO answer from Ed.  I grew up on a farm, and saw animals engage in homosexual behavior. I never saw anyone ‘teaching them’ to be that way.  It seems to come natural to a small percentage.  Personally, I am tolerant, but not interested.  Consenting adults are consenting adults.

  • Anonymous

    What’s the point of a debt ceiling?
    Try telling your credit card company that you’d love to be able to pay them for all that stuff you already bought, but your spouse has cut off your allowance.That’s why Alan Greenspan thinks it’s dumb, because the Congress has already passed bills that must be paid:http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/alan-greenspan-doesnt-understand-why-we-have-a-debt-ceiling/2011/04/13/AFztTtOE_blog.htmlThe Congressional Budget Office thinks it’s like trying to close the barn door after the horse has already bolted:http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/the-congressional-budget-office-on-the-uselessness-of-the-debt-ceiling/2011/04/13/AFNTBgKE_blog.htmlGeorge W. Bush’s economic speech writer David Frum says the GOP “seems crazy”. Bruce Bartlett was an economic advisor to Reagan and George H. W. Bush and he says “Republicans are playing not just with fire, but the financial equivalent of nuclear weapons. “Both think that the debt ceiling is unconstitutional.http://www.frumforum.com/obama-is-capitulating-on-the-debt-crisis“Can I read you the 14th amendment?” says Tim Geithner:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/30/tim-geithner-14th-amendment_n_887925.htmlThe Supreme Court already has:Section 4 of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, passed in the context of the Civil War Reconstruction, confirmed the legitimacy of all United States public debt legislated by the Congress. In Perry v. United States (1935), the Supreme Court ruled that voiding a United States government bond “went beyond the congressional power” on account of Section 4.[131] Bruce Bartlett, a former economic advisor to Ronald Reagan, argues that Section 4 renders the debt ceiling unconstitutional, and obligates the President to consider the debt ceiling null and void.[132]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt#Debt_ceilingHow ironic that the party claiming to favor strict construction of the Constitution always wants to ignore it or amend it to suit its political purposes. 

  • Clara

    On the point of DSK’s accuser being questionable: anyone can get raped, even a woman who knows a convicted drug dealer or lied on an asylum application. Without knowing the details of her phone call “discussing the advantages of coming forward” with the accusation, I’d say a great deal of thought and discussion would be warranted even if (and especially) if the allegations are true. She must have had to weigh the risks of coming under international scrutiny with trying to bring an attacker to justice (if it’s true).

    It would be a great disappointment to let this case dissolve just yet. This level of investigation on the accuser would not have been pursued for someone “less important.”

  • William

    Apparently, “The Forgotten Man” is finally being heard.

    • Anonymous

      @0aeb1c67f759dc0e24a92a5eb0bf6a0b:disqus Really! The book by Amity Shlaes is hack revisionism that does NOT even use GDP values for the period, even though easily available [I guess they would not support her thesis! -- or yours.] As always, anecdotes are a sly form of cherry picking which allows whatever conclusion the author wants to make. Read the article on the book in Wikipedia:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forgotten_Man

      The “reception” has basically been positive from the RADICAL Right (why not, just because it does NOT make the case is no reason not to try to pull the wool over the eyes of those who are blinded by ideology to real facts and analysis) and shown to be the sad failure it is by a wide field of economists and historians.

      Try reading E. Cary Brown’s paper “Fiscal Policy in the Thirties: A Reappraisal,” in The American Economic Review, (1956) for the definitive analysis. Of course, what you get out of it will depend on how open you are to recognizing facts and perceptive analysis.

  • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

    ex-President Clinton said last night that there are 3 million jobs out there that are unfilled and need skilled workers to fill them. he didn’t mention what what kind of jobs that needs those skilled labor force. in my guess truck drivers, electrician, automotive technicians or welders. Americans!!! there are jobs out there beside being a nurse or an office staff employee. I am planning to be a truck driver if I but pursuit of happiness can become real with effort and persistance.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Fillipino,    I agree with you asking WHERE ARE THESE JOBS?  It’s easy for politicians to say the jobs are there, without saying where they are, or what they are!  I certainly haven’t seen it myself, or heard of them from people I know that are looking for a job!  I do far more volunteer work, than any politician I have heard of, so I do not need another volunteer job!  Good luck with the truck-driver job.  I hope you aren’t paying one of the scam truck-driving schools.

      • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

        Thanks. The trucking company is paying for the CDL license. Not paying a penny.

  • Terry Tree Tree

    DEBT CEILING;  Republicans raised the Debt Ceiling 7 times in ‘W’ administration, while 2 wars were not included in Budget.
        Congress, and the Senate have given themselves several raises in that time.  ADMIT their hypocracy!!  If they take RETROACTIVE  pay-cuts-FOUR TIMES the percentage of the pay-cuts they want to force on lower-paid employees, then I’ll maybe believe they are serious.  AFTER they give FULL DISCLOSURE of ALL campaign funding, to prove they aren’t bought and paid for by corporations or unions.

    OBAMA PRESS CONFERENCE;  When a corporation, GE,  got a lot of press for this, can get PAID taxes, instead of paying taxes, who are they to call for lower taxes?  Many of the rich pay a FAR smaller actual percentage of taxes, fees, and other forms of taxes, and are WHINING about that!!  How many $Billions are enough?  Can a greedy person EVER get enough?  What good they do with it, is the REAL measure of riches!!

    SAME SEX MARRIAGE;  I am tolerant, but not interested.  A heterosexual male, I am not going to marry another male!  So many religious leaders, and ‘moral majority’ leaders, have engaged in homosexuality, that it is hypocracy for them to ‘oppose’ it.  Let God take care of it, if he finds it an abomination.  He has allowed these religious leaders to molest for centuries!.  I believe that is a far worse sin and crime!!

    FREE TRADE AGREEMENTS;  NAFTA AND CAFTA, and the other FREE TRADE agreements haven’t been FREE trade, they have been far more one-sided.  NO to free trade agreements, that allow State-supported goods to be imported for less than domestic goods!  NO to countries that exclude our products, except very select ones.

    AFGHANISTAN; Anyone that thinks this is going to be a safe country to live in, in decades, go over there and live in the most-dangerous sections, without any protection, bodyguards, weapons, etc…

    GREECE;  Have the leaders and proponents of pay cuts, cut their own pay and perqs, by multiples of what they are demanding of the working class?   Leaders LEAD!  Despots demand.

    WILDFIRES;  Anyone can twist the ‘Will of God’, to mean anything that is to their advantage!   Fight the fires, and do what you can to prevent more.  Good Life and Good Luck.

  • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

    Only 3% to 6% percent of Americans are rich majorities are middle and lower classes. tax is not the problem but the majority of funds are going to politicians and GRANTS that are unnecessary. research it in your States the kind of projects that are funded by the tax payers money. Fleecing of America are done by the federal government.

  • Michiganjf

    What a joke Republicans are!!!

    They got back into the majority by promising voters they would make jobs and the economy their number ONE priority!!!

    … well, voters, what you got instead is this:

    17 bills have been passed since Republicans took over the Senate and House, and only TWO (2!!!) of them are anything other than appointments or the “naming” of something!!!!

    Voters, instead of what you were promised, you get more idiotic bickering about social issues and COMPLETE INACTION!!!!

    … remember what Republicans have wrought and how they continue to “serve” come the 2012 election!!!!

    • Jeffreysc

      We tried Democrats and look where it got us.  Deeper in the dump.  We’d have more results if Repubs controlled the Senate.  Next year hopefully!

      • crm65

        The ONLY reason we are not in the dumper is because of Democrats – Republican drove the bus right of the cliff, bailed out, and the democrats were the tiny branch that caught it and kept it from plunging into the abyss. Worst thing possible = Rs gaining any more seats – of course most intelligent people have caught onto their antics & duplicity. It doesn’t appear you are in that category…. 

        • Jeffreysc

          the stuff hit the fan in 07 just after Dems took control of congress, their fingerprints are all over the steering wheel, what’s left of it that is
          it only got worse after they got the white house also
          but americans have learned their lesson, community organizers should stay in the community where they can do the least amount of harm

      • Anonymous

        The Republicans drove the bus off the cliff, bailed at the last moment and The Democrats acted as the tree branch that kept the bus from crashing into the abyss.

        Worst idea EVER = Republican winning any seats in 2012!

        MOST people have wisened up to thier lying and deceitful ways. 

        • Drewjkelly

          We can only hope.
          But bear in mind we’re living in country where high percent of folks Still think Iraq had something to with 9/11 and
          even though 98% of scientists world-wide believe man-influenced climate change exists, high per cent of folks still think it doesn’t.
          Likely not much is going to influence these folks but perhaps what they hear on Rush and Fox “News”.

      • Anonymous

        @230d099fc51dde3ba5b6fa328f8c64ee:disqus It took the Bush administration EIGHT (8) years to create the economic disaster, and despite your wishes, most people when polled recognize that. They don’t think Obama has done enough to get the economy going, and they are correct, but the Republicans have thrown several weights across his shoulders on the way.

        1) The ARRA (stimulus) was TOO SMALL as STANDARD macroeconomic textbook understanding would show. At the time of its passage there were only 59 Democratic Senators, which denied them the ability to overcome a filibuster, so a larger one probably could not have passed, and it is not known if any Democratic senator would have balked. But Obama should NEVER have said that the stimulus was the “correct” amount. Also, he should have made the case for the effectiveness of the stimulus and should have been campaigning for more stimulus.

        2) Jeff probably won’t follow the U.K.’s falling GDP growth rate resulting from its austerity (note the Greek austerity, even as it is only begun has had deleterious effects on its GDP), but Republicans will have to have a veto-proof majority unless the Republicans pull a presidential candidate that can win the election (vs. the primaries), which seems difficult unless they can tank the economy without getting blamed.

        3) Obama has been too desirous of consensus policy making instead of pushing harder for quick effective action. Hopefully for the country, Wednesday’s press conference indicates a change in this attitude. That well could be the reason for the hysterical response by Republicans, Sen. Kyle calling him a “demagogue” in the Senate.

    • Michiganjf

      Ooops!

      I meant “took over the House and picked up seats in the Senate…”

  • ThresherK

    So, the GOP are throwing a little tantrum. What a surprise.

    And I hope our panel gets to the nth thing that the GOP said they wanted in the budget until the Democratic president said “hey, that’s a good idea, let’s try that”.

    What a bunch of WATBs.

  • Anonymous

    Eliminating special interest loopholes is not a tax increase. 

    • Jeffreysc

      As long as it’s not your loophole, right? 

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Jeffreysc,   A lot of the working-class (blue collar), don’t qualify for loopholes, Marie Antoinette wannabe.  The rich pay so much fewer taxes, and their fair share of other expenses, their ‘Let them eat cake’ attitude is disgusting.

        • Jeffreysc

          like the payroll tax credit, earned income tax credit, pretax 401k contributions, … you don’t know what you’re talking about

          • Anonymous

            No, more like carried interest, capped income for payroll taxes, preferred rates for capital gains.  On the other hand, I suppose anyone could start their own oil or ethanol company and get those subsidies.

          • Jeffreysc

            i’m afraid i can’t follow your extravangant mental gymnastics; a credit is only a credit if it’s capped; and preferred rates for capital gains as in lower for lower income earners and higher for higher … so credits for social policy are ok but credits for clean energy and energy independence not ok

          • Anonymous

            “i’m afraid i can’t follow your extravangant mental gymnastics”

            It’s called “logic”.  

          • Jeffreysc

            logic me this genius
            carried interest isn’t earned income so it’s not a loophole
            capital gains tax rate is zero for low income, so it’s only a loophole for them not higher earners
            you don’t get subsidies, you get tax credits for making investments in oil wells and ethanol plants; those are loopholes, no doubt; but as i noted earlier, there are plenty of loopholes for everyone

          • Anonymous

            You can define it any way you want, but carried interest is certainly treated preferentially to income from wages, or even real interest income.  To not call it a “loophole” is simply semantics.  Frankly, it’s a lot worse than one.

            I guess you can argue that all those people with total income of less than $35,000, who get all their income from capital gains, are getting a great deal.  Only problem is that there aren’t any actual people who fit that description.  On the other hand, there are many who make hundreds of thousands or more and pay a lower portion of their income in taxes than some making $15/hour.

            One incontrovertible fact is that taxes on the highest income recipients, from whatever source, are at an all-time modern low.  Another is that the gap between the top and the middle/bottom earners and asset owners has never been greater.  Our tax policy has a lot to do with that.  Or do you have some other explanation?

          • Jeffreysc

            semantics; at 1.4 million pages, it’s long on detail and short on semantics
            i’m not going to begrudge gramma and grandpa living off of interest, dividends and capital gains in their retirement years; and i’m not going to take your word for it that they don’t exist because i know them
            it is also true that the % of people who don’t pay any federal income taxes has never been as high as it is now
            tax policy has nothing to do with pre-tax income bifurcation, they extent to which it exists

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Jeffreysc,  No job, no paycheck, no income tax.  That’s the fastest growing segment in the past eight years..

          • Anonymous

            @230d099fc51dde3ba5b6fa328f8c64ee:disqus @jimino:disqus  As I am sure you well know, what jimino was talking about was the hedge-fund managers getting a rip-off by being allowed to classify their income as “carried interest” and thus paying a 15% tax rate instead of the 35% they should be paying.

            Where does it say that a credit HAS to be capped? Just because most of them are?

            To the extent that social policy can be implemented in the tax code with a small nudge here and there, even such “free market” ideologues as Milton Friedman approved; e.g., Low Income Tax Credit.

            Credits FOR clean energy ARE acceptable WHILE the industry is getting on its feet, particularly when the competitor, the fossil fuel industry, is getting credits and loopholes after a hundred years of “development.”

            What do you think the country should do to reach “energy independence? How does the country encourage the development of independent sources of energy, which will be more expensive than existing energy until economies of scale are reached?

          • Terry Tree Tree

            jimino,   Only if they are rich, or can tap someone that is!  You don’t think they give significant subsidies to poor people with an idea, or a desire only, do you?  Neither of those can you start, on a minimum-wage pay scale, or even double that!

          • ThresherK

            Crumbs and crusts for those of us under the upper middle class.

            The loaves, the big deductions, arrive for people who don’t cash paychecks, but live on the interest of the interest, and actually make enough money to have regular (what, weekly?) conversations with their accountants. As Warren Buffet said, “My capital gains tax rate is less than my waitress’ paycheck tax rate”.

            Anyone reading the business pages of the NYT or such and wonder “Who are they advertising to?” is in the former group.

          • Jeffreysc

            capital gains isn’t a deduction; I hope you don’t do your own taxes, yikes!
            yeah, it’s a recesson so let’s discourage savings and investment; Buffett’s tax rate may be less, but he pays a ton more than his secretary;  advertisers advertise to those with disposable income, even comedy central watchers should be able to get that, apparently not in your case

          • ThresherK

            And he makes a ton more than his secretary.

            Tax code problems are tax code problems. Gaming the system is something a Warren Buffet can do which others cannot while living paycheck to paycheck or mtge-to-mtge.

            Your obstinant ignorance tires me; anytime you wish to join the real world, bub.

          • Jeffreysc

            real world, sorry you appear to have a lock on that; a belief system of your own making

            makes more, pays more; sounds fair, except to you for some reason

          • ThresherK

            I’m still waiting for you to join us. And I won’t waste effort in order to merely confuse you.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Jeffreysc,  It’s Makes More, Pays Less.  In many ways.  And the rich keep whining about that!

          • Anonymous

            “Objection, your honor.  Non-responsive”

            “Sustained”

          • Jeffreysc

            great work perry mason, good to know you can entertain yourself if the cable goes out

          • JayB

            Those are “loopholes?”

  • ThresherK

    What? Our host said “the President raised the tension” because he dared to take his own side in a fight? Is this another one of those things which a pol can only get away with when they’re a Republican?

    Jack Beatty can surely describe the difference between “raising taxes” and “closing loopholes”.

    Anyone want to look at this from outside the Beltway?

    • Sdebeer

      Thanks to you and all above who wish pundits would stop referring to “closing loopholes” as “raising taxes.” 

  • Freeman

    Tom;
            I listened to the New Conference—Really great. Nothing really changes with the Republicans, ” TRUTH HURTS”. Problem is those B@#%$^%& are playing with the health and well being of the American people. Time to “take away” from them what they have taken away from us

  • Terry Tree Tree

    Is there a reason that I cannot access older shows of On Point?  I have been able to go back before.  Now I can only access yesterday, and today.

    • ThresherK

      I’m not having a problem getting to the pop-up screen with listening options and the MP3 right-click. What’s up?

  • freeman

    Same-sex issue;
                          Found this on the internet this past week :So let me get this STRAIGHT…Kelsey Grammer can end a 15yr marriage by phone, Larry King is on divorce #9, Britney Spears had a 55hr marriage, Jesse James & Tiger Woods, while married, were having sex with EVERYONE, 53% of Americans get divorced and 30-60% cheat on their spouses. Yet, same-sex marriage is going to destroy the institution of marriage? Really? Re-post if you find this ironic

    • WINSTON SMITH

      The moral bankruptcy of our nation, as evidenced by the examples above that you have cited, and additionally by the attempt to normalize what is an immoral, unnatural lifestyle through civil unions and gay marriage, is certainly ruining our country.  One day, those who advocate for all of these poor life choices, will have no excuse when they stand before the one who died on the cross to pay the penalty for their sins and to provide a way of deliverance from the devastating consequences of the the Fall as described in Genesis.  I would encourage everyone to seriously consider and embrace the offer that Jesus makes to everyone to forsake their sin and pride and to humbly ask Him for forgiveness and to become His child. 

      • Anonymous

         I have always had a hard time fitting broad theological statements such as yours into my daily thoughts and activities.  How would taking your advice affect the national deficit, Afghan war,etc.?

        • WINSTON SMITH

          If I was in charge of the nation’s finances, I would certainly manage them like most individuals do and not spend more than I take in.  So there would be no deficit.  Also, I would think long and hard before entering into war given the cost in terms of lives and cost.  The problem with Afghanistan is that instead of focusing on that issue back in 2001, George Bush (as bad a president as we have ever had in my book) diverted us to Iraq.  If we had focused, we would have gotten Bin Laden 10 years earlier, and would have been out long before now.

          • Anonymous

            So which $14 trillion of spending would you get rid of?  Or how would you raise the additional $14 trillion?  That’s really the point of this “debate”. 

            And while I respect your view on the post-9/11 military response, I believe that the huge growth in the military/security complex that followed was a purely calculated “public-private” partnership, i.e. a plan designed to enrich those who had the “foresight” to capitalize on it.  The P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act was already written and ready to go.  And while the rank and file military/guard got peanuts, as well as life-long disability, war profiteers and petroleum interests made massive sums.  All at taxpayer expense.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            jimino,  Amen, Brother.  Anyone that thinks they whipped the P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act together that fast, has no honest evaluation of the ‘W’ administration. 

      • Anonymous

        Not everyone believes in fairytales. 

        • WINSTON SMITH

          Have you ever actually studied the Bible and evidence for a literal creation/etc. as proposed by organizations such as the Institute for Creation Research?  Or have simply accepted the alternative viewpoint because those who dismiss the Bible have the political power in our institutions and happen to scream the loudest?

          • Anonymous

            I’ve read parts of the bible, endured being raised Catholic, and studied biology and history and have concluded that is very likely that there is no god or gods.  Certainly not the one depicted in the bible.  I’ve read many things arguing for the existence of god but have not read much from the neo-creationists although I must admit that I quite enjoyed the website for the Creation Museum:  http://creationmuseum.org/ 

          • Stillin

            I get where you are coming from, to me , God is nature, the natural world, and in 12 step cirlces God is good, orderly direction. To me, there is a power or energy that has the final say in the world. I don’t think it’s a man with a white beard on a gold throne, but that’s the picture I grew up with in Catholic church which I hated. That, and the bloody, suffering ones, no thanky. I do like to know I am not in the charge of the world, thank god. 

          • Terry Tree Tree

            May the Force be with you,  Stillin.  Hadn’t noticed you on here earlier.

          • Stillin

            I will take that force thank you. I don’t own a computer so it’s hit or miss, if there’s one to use, I will check the blogs and stuff.  I hate to get on late but that’s when I have the use! I like to say god/jah because of traveling in the Caribbean, ghetto part, Jah is in everything, all cultures support god/jah and I like to too, in energy .

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Quite all right.  Due to your constraints, I’ll value what you say more.  The Force in Star Wars, so far, is the best depiction of my image of God.  I am getting farther and farther away from religion, due to the hypocracy of most that I have been exposed to.  I have much better morals, than a lot of the religious people that I encounter.  Several years ago, I got over the religious training that women are inferior, races are inferior, and only heterosexuals can be good people.  Hypocracy irritates me to the N-th degree.

          • Stillin

            haven’t seen star wars, just not a big movie/screen /tv person, or computer screens, but did just watch online of gods and men, it won at Cainnes, about French Monks who live in Algeria at the time of the Algerian war in the 1990′s, with the Mujuhadeen in it, and it ties to ALL religious beliefs, very well done, regardless of anybody’s spirituality it is a moving, quiet, film. Loved it. Highly recommend it to ANYBODY who is interested in God, Jah, Love.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Stillin,   Star Wars is worth seeing, if only for that reason.  I’m sure it is available on-line, although I have not looked.

          • Anonymous

            @473f7a439f15d89e0eb8e1521264c551:disqus The Bible is a great storybook, containing a lot of good lessons for living one’s life. But it was written down around 600 B.C.E., when the theory of science hardly existed (Aristotle would not come along for another 200 years, and he got a LOT wrong). The populace living at that time would not have understood the physics that is known today, and the Bible would have been taken much less seriously, leaving the world without what has proved to be so inspirational.
            It does nothing to diminish the life-living lessons of the Bible to understand that it does not need to be taken literally. It would seem that people who demand that are insecure in their (or other’s) ability to understand the real lessons in the Bible.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Winston,   Please read my reply to Ed, and my comment about Michelle Bachman.  If you are a Catholic, it will be interesting to read your reply to me here.  If not, I will still read your reply.

        • WINSTON SMITH

          I am not a catholic, and I agree that pregnancy under the circumstances of rape or incest would be devastating.  However, I still ascribe to the philosophy that two wrongs do not make a right. I also believe that God is big enough to take a very negative situation and turn it into a positive for His glory.  I am not minimizing the circumstances that you have described, but I don’t believe that abortion solves the problem.  It makes it worse because the mother now has the guilt of murdering the child to deal with.  By the way, I am a conservative, but do not embrace Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachman, or George W. Bush.  I believe that the Republicans, who have pushed through tax cuts for the rich and not offset tax cuts spending cuts, and who protect their own special interests such as big Pharma, oil, ethanol farmers, etc. are just as bad as the Democrats.

          • crm65

            That is easy for your to say since you would never be the woman carrying a fetus inside her for 10 months that reminds her every day of her ordeal. If people don’t agree, don’t have one, but don’t prevent women from making the choices that are best for their lives. The majority of woman who have abortion don’t feel guilty, they feel relief and in control if their lives & personal decisions. It is others who try to make them feel guilty.  

          • Terry Tree Tree

            crm65,  AMEN!! A point I make every chance that I can!  Please see my reply to notafeminista, and to Ed.  Why people cannot follow through on this thought, is beyond me.

          • Stillin

            I have to say, a very long time ago, I felt squashed, pressured, begged to have an abortion, and I caved and chose that. To this day, I believe I made the right, albeit EXTREMELY painful decision. I loved him and I wanted the baby, he didn’t want me If I had the baby. OK? I also had an IUD in. Now, sit down, you’ll need to. Most people break up at that point. I still wanted this person, stayed with this person, had three kids with this person and now I am owed 100,000 dollars in back support from this person.  I understand most people would not get this situation. I felt so bad he didn’t want me if I continued with the pregnancy. I chose him once, after a long 25 year marriage, I later chose my kids, still, I believe it was my right to make that incredibly hard decision, and I was 18.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Stillin,  You have my sympathy, for those decisions.  Have you read notafeminista’s comment, and my replies to them.  I’m getting the impression that nota is a guy.  An emergency services dispatcher, of which we have many of both genders, here.  I made the one for my children,too, even though I was in love with their mother.  She kept causing problems, and finally left us.  I hope you win the lottery, or something else, so he will be trying to butter you up.  $100,000, that’s some serious child support in arrears!! 

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Winston,   If people really oppose abortion, they would have been providing a home for unwanted children, for decades.  Most that I have listened to, just want to DICTATE someone else’s morals, and options.  NONE that I have talked to has provided a number, in answer to a simple question that tells all.   “How many, seriously handicapped, minority children, that are the results of rape, or incest, are YOU raising.  They shut up quick, or stammer, but NONE have given me a number, much less a good number, that proves their commitment.
                TAX CUTS for the rich, is the only chant that I keep hearing from the Republicans, in one form or another.  Once in a while, they mix in some seemingly false morality.  Riches for the rich, is their biggest message, by far.

          • notafeminista

            Terry pardon me, but your argument is flawed.  You say those who oppose abortion would be provided homes for the unwanted children that would have been otherwise aborted. 

            Terry, I assume you oppose homelessness and think adults who have no place to live should be provided as such.  How many homeless people have you taken in and are currently living with you

          • Terry Tree Tree

            nota,   Re-check my reply, please.  I said that those that oppose abortion would be providing homes for the un-wanted children.  Not that those that oppose abortion would be provided homes.  If churches, and other organizations had been providing homes for ALL unwanted children, the government would not have had to start.  Girls, and women that get pregnant by the means of rape, incest, and lies of forever love, are not in a position to raise a child, usually.  Certainly they cannot raise them to the standards that self-righteous of society demand of them.
                 My personal circumstances preclude me from taking in homeless, children or adults.  When I can manage it, I will.  I did raise my children, after their mother left us.  That’s why I let deadbeat-dads, that I talk to, know that I know how it feels to be the custodial parent awarded child-support, and receiving not the first penny.
                 My personal dream, is to obtain a farm large enough, recruit older people, that love children, then take in children that no one else wants.   Put the two together, and watch the MAGIC happen.  The older people need a sense of being needed, and some one to love and teach.  These children need someone to love them, and teach them the things they need to know, to be stable, constructive citizens.   Got a few $Million that you aren’t using?  My income would not have to be what I can make at construction, in a decent year, but I cannot do it for free.   I’m overloaded on free, now.  I’ll be happy to discuss it with anyone that seriouly wants to do it.  I don’t have to lead it, or even be an employee.  I have given this idea to others before.

          • notafeminista

            I do apologize for the wording however not the intent.  It is exactly the argument of every pro-choice proponent that pro-life supporters should suddenly be responsible for the children who are not aborted should the pro-lifers get their way, no? 

            As I said,  it is a flawed argument, evidenced by the rest of my post; fully and completely understood by you as evidenced by the rest of your post.

            As for churches assuming any responsibility for the elderly or the indigent or the unwanted – surely you don’t want these communities of the compromised to be raised by say….the Catholic Church?  Given the response of people on this very forum towards anything relating to the spiritual or faithful or religious, I’d say you rebutted your own argument there.

            The concluding statements are very telling – you do not take in the elderly or the indigent or the unwanted simply because you cannot afford to do so – and you have an income.   Why is it then, the responsibility for the elderly or the indigent or the unwanted  shifts to the state which has no income, no means of generating income, and can raise money only through coercive means from the people?  (pay taxes or go to jail)

            You are stammering a bit Terry.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            nota,   In my early reply to Ed, I tell what I think of the Catholic Church.  Several other churches have the same, or similiar problems. Pro-Lifers demand to dictate to a girl or woman, that she HAS to bring a child into this world, if she winds up prenant, no matter how.  Pro-Lifers do NOT provide funding, jobs these mothers can do, protection from abuse, and ALL the myriad things involved in raising a child.  To me that is hypocracy, because they are dooming those children to a very sub-standard life, out of their self-righteousness.  Many of the Pro-lifers are evidently well-off, financially, and could afford to ‘put their money where their mouth is’, instead of demanding to dictate to others!
                 I am an unpaid Volunteer Fire Fighter, an unpaid Volunteer Rescue Squad member, have been an unpaid Volunteer Medical First Responder, have donated over TEN GALLONS of my blood to help save lives, and work construction to support those expensive hobbies.   When construction picks up so that I can afford to, I’ll try to do as we have discussed!  I wouldn’t put one through the cheap life I live.  How many $Billionaires can say they have actually done as much as this poor construction worker?  Names, please.
                 I have, in the  past offered to help a pregnant lady, victim of date-rape, with lodging and food.  Due to others, she declined.  I had NO strings attatched to the offer, except wanting to see the child and mother well.
                 If I win the lottery, or come into money otherwise, I won’t be spending it all on frivolities, or hoarding it.  I WILL do good with it for my fellow man and woman.

          • notafeminista

            Who determines what is frivolous? And what business is it of anyone’s how you or me or the guy across the street spends his money?  It is yours (or mine or his etc) …do with it as you please.

          • notafeminista

            Incidentally isn’t the opportunity at a cheap life, better than the alternative?

          • Terry Tree Tree

            nota,  To re-phrase one of my original messages, the people that want to DICTATE to a girl, or woman that has been raped, what she HAS to do with her life, and her unwanted pregnancy, should provide REAL alternatives, and REAL support.  Many of those hypocrites are guys that have caused the problem!  Rapists and liars are the biggest part of that problem.  They keep causing pregnancy, and NOT supporting their victims!   The female is stuck with a bunch of bad choices, and a constant reminder of her trauma.
                 If you want to talk about abortion as a means of birth control, I’ll say it is a dangerous, expensive, and illogical method, fraught with a lot of problems.
                 Yes, the $Millionaires here choose to hoard their money, or spend it otherwise, while us Volunteers donate our time to beg for donations, do fund-raisers, scour the country for deals on equipment, hunt down, and apply for what few grants there are, purchase equipment, maintain equipment, go to training, pay for our meals and other expenses, and a whole host of other things, to provide Fire and Rescue services for those stingy $Millionaires.  Yes it’s definitely YOUR money, and you don’t let us forget it!!

          • notafeminista

            Here is what some of your “hoarding millionaires” are doing Terry.  This is not the only story – it took me about 3.7 seconds with a Google search.  Apparently “hoarding millionaires” are donating to universities in signficant numbers, albeit anonymously.  If you don’t like the WSJ article, there are plenty of others from which to choose.
            http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703410604576217093108529596.html

            As for the life of a volunteer firefighter, I know more whereof you speak than you assume – however for purposes of this conversation, I will remind you that it is as you say, voluntary.  No one, not even a “hoarding millionaire” forces you to go to the station on your off-time, drags you to hours of continuing education to maintain certifications and so on.  As for the funding that is or is not available, again, I know more whereof you speak than you assume.

            So, let’s say for the moment, that you really didn’t mean that pregnancies should be terminated simply because someone cannot afford it – that argument has been refuted.  Next then, is the argument that a woman who is pregnant as a result of rape or incest should not have to suffer the constant reminder of her experience.  Except we are left once again with terminating the one entity that truly had nothing to do with its coming into being other than extraordinarily bad biological luck – and the fact that terminating the pregancy will not make make the original act of incest or rape go away.  Abortion of the pregnancy will not erase the original trauma, nor prevent the possible PTSD to follow – and is it that case that we really are discussing ending the existence of an innocent so someone else can feel better?

          • Terry Tree Tree

            nota,  I, personally feel that I don’t have the right to dictate to a raped girl, or woman, what she has to do.  My arguement is with those that assume that right, without providing REASONABLE options.  As a guy, I cannot get pregnant.  Nor can I get a lady pregnant.  I would very much prefer there be NO abortions.  I just rail at people trying to DICTATE, without providing reasonable options, and support, of these victims.  Yes, the PTSD is another consideration, one I didn’t specify in my other replies.  I hope you are as persistent with the rapists as you are with me.

          • notafeminista

            Terry, it is more that I am consistent than persistent.  I don’t dictate to anyone.  I do however expect one to be responsible for the choices he makes.  This includes both the rapist and the woman who foolishly believes any man at any time who allows him to have intercourse with her based on a heat of the moment statement as you alluded to in an earlier post.  -Which incidentally is not case of rape or incest – thus lesser trauma.  Abortion then becomes a matter of convenience either socially or economically (or both) for the mother.

            If you are busy railing at people who try to dictate, then why not be consistent as well?  Instead, you railed at people who don’t spend their money as YOU see fit – IE “hoarding millionaires”and options that YOU deem reasonable.   

          • Terry Tree Tree

            nota,  I am NOT the one demanding to DICTATE to someone, that may, or may not subscribe to my religion.  It was rape, incest, OR the liar, please.   Since this an important subject to you, how many do you have, and how many have you raised?  No vague reply, just a solid number, so we will know you are not a  hypocrite.
                 As 99% of the population are NOT Volunteer Fire Fighters, or Volunteer Rescue Squad members, I guessed you weren’t.  Rather vague answer, though.  Care to elaborate?

          • notafeminista

            Of course this is an important subject and it is the case that it be discussed intelligently rather than with dishonest and manipulative appeals to emotion.  You are correct in that I am not a volunteer firefighter, nor rescue squad member.  Nor am I a volunteer member of a soup kitchen, rescue mission or social services organization.  Having said that neither an I a paid member of any of those entities.  Having said that, neither am I a butcher, a baker nor candlestick maker.(I will assume that you hold paid emergency service workers with the same esteem you do volunteers.)  Whether  not I am has absolutely no bearing on the subject at hand – which is whether or not pro-life proponents should be required to be personally responsible for the fetuses they claim to protect.   This argument would be more viable were it applied consistently – a point I have already stated.

            The number of children I have raised or am raising, wanted or unwanted is zero.  The number of children I have given birth to is zero.  And for the record, no…I am not a volunteer firefighter…rather, I am their dispatcher.

          • Gregg

            “I said that those that oppose abortion would be providing homes for the un-wanted children.”

            Michelle Bachman has 23 foster children in her home.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            WOW!!  That’s ONE!!!  Were they severely handicapped, minority children that were the results of rape?  If NOT, that’s NOT one!!!

          • Gregg

            We don’t know, maybe. But they were “unwanted” and I would think you would appreciate that. 

          • notafeminista

            I would assume you also support adequate medical care, long term supplemental care and appropriate drug coverage for everyone as well.  How many geriatric patients do you have in your home in addition to the homeless people you are supporting?

          • Terry Tree Tree

            nota,  Another reply to you, elsewhere,  is my answer.  I do far more for people than most $Millionaires, and $Billionaires, actually.  I do NOT believe in ‘entitlement’, but see where we spend FIVE TIMES what the next developed country does on healthcare.  Considering that 1/3 of our population is not covered, that equals at least 7 times.  That tells me that we could afford universal healthcare, if the Death Panels=Insurance Exexutives, would allow it.  The money that they have spent fighting it, would probably provide for illegals too.  With my Volunteer work, and my occupation to support those expensive hobbies, I cannot even put a pet through that.

          • notafeminista

            Furthermore, you do not hear “tax cuts for the rich.”  The “rich” is an add-on by those who  oppose the tax cuts.   However let us be specific, one cannot cut something for which no one pays.  So if in your definition, those who pay taxes are rich, then so be it.  But pay close attention to the numbers of those who do not pay income tax – for they have nothing to cut and those numbers are rising.

      • Anonymous

        I may find some respect for the moral outrage of the right when they begin a campaign against Greed.  

        Greed is the one sin that made Jesus lose his temper, but the “Christian Right”? Uh huh. Not a peep against Greed. 

        So the Christian Right looks to me like rich people telling poor people the rules of living, rules that their spokesmen don’t follow in their own lives. The very icons of CR moral purity have time and time again proven to be craven creatures of Lust and Greed. 

        Where is Jesus in this picture? 

        I ask for the scripture references for the moral proscriptions of Jesus and I get obscure and ambiguous passages from Revelations or some such. 

        Jesus was a liberal. That’s why they crucified him. 

  • Trudy_schafer

    Northeastern economists have published a report on the “jobless and wageless” recovery.  While workers have seen $7 billion in increased wages in this recovery, corporations have realized $464 billion in pretax profits. This is the worst ratio of wages to profits in the past 7 recoveries.  Clearly, the president is right.  Increase taxes….now!

    http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/30/the-wageless-profitable-recovery/

    • Jeffreysc

      corporations will pay higher taxes on their higher profits, you don’t have to raise the rates to get the result you want; and moreover, you can be sure that those higher tax dollars will be spent on something ridiculous

      • ThresherK

        Like keeping parks in Minnesota open. Which right-thinking non-socialist would ever want a government to do that?

        • Jeffreysc

          a fiscally prudent one, you apparently don’t qualify

          • ThresherK

            Go Galt already. We can’t miss you if you don’t go away.

          • Jeffreysc

            that was a real zinger, how do you come up with this stuff?  shear genius

          • ThresherK

            The same way I pretend my grade-school nephew’s jokes are amusing.

          • Jeffreysc

            in fact, i think that would make a great hook for a country music song;  we can’t miss you if you don’t go away lil darling, so head out on the highway and wave me goodbye. And take it to the limit one more time … well you’re the writer so I’ll leave it up to you … let’s workshop this!

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Greg-Vitercik/1140871901 Greg Vitercik

        Most corporations don’t pay taxes at all, and I doubt that they will pay any now, so you don’t need to worry about where all those extra taxes dollars will be going.

        • Jeffreysc

          so what would be the point in raising rates then?  in any case, you’re really stretching (and I’m being kind) the findings quoted in the article

          • Anonymous

            @230d099fc51dde3ba5b6fa328f8c64ee:disqus The point is to REMOVE the loopholes that allow corporations to take deductions, apply credits, etc. that allow them to even get tax “rebates.” This is mostly pro-forma since the U.S. will have to raise tax rates (possibly with an additional tax bracket) to cover the future deficits and pay down some of the accumulated deficits (the debt).

            But you knew that already and are just playing here.

    • TomK in Boston

      He’s right, but he’s a wimp. He’s going to settle for some token tax hikes and maybe 5x more in cuts, while it should be the other way around. The result of this austerity will be a prolonged recession or Great Depression II.

      I’m sick of this BS about closing loopholes. Our problem is that the rates are too low. The top marginal rate is near its low since 1929, and tax revs as a % of GDP is at its low since 1950. RAISE THE RATES ON THE HIGHER INCOMES!! Stop pussyfoting around!

  • Michiganjf

    Try pointing out who these “REVENUE RAISERS” proposed by Republicans will hit:

    The middle class and the poor!!!

    • William

       But the poor don’t pay income taxes and yet they receive much more back from the government than they pay for. Should they not share the burden? Eliminate the Earned Income Credit? or make the poor use that to help pay for Medicaid?

      • ThresherK

        Have we entered some magical land where poor people only pay income taxes? Last I knew the remaining tax burden on “Lucky Duckies” is a chunk larger, proportionately, than mine. (Not that I have any Congresscritter on speed dial.)

        You fancy yourself a Libertarian, yet continually come up with Republican “facts” on the economy.

  • Anonymous

    Isn’t an elected leader who pledges fealty to Grover Norquist and his political organization, instead of our country and its needs (not to mention a significant majority of its citizens), the very definition of a traitor?  After all , this is the guy who publicly stated that if he had to choose between letting the elderly die of neglect and raising the marginal tax rate of the wealthiest 2%, he would choose to let even his own grandmother die!  Now that’s someone who is truly in favor of death panels.

    • Terry Tree Tree

      Jimino,   YES!!  The oath of office EXCLUDES, or OVERRIDES other oaths and loyalties.  The Oath is to the citizens of the United States, not to special interests!   Are you surprised that those that are so wrapped up in greed, would let their grandmother die, instead of paying more?  ‘Moral Highground’, anyone?  ‘Family Values’?   This proves the emptiness of the talking points of the party of Mark Foley, Larry Craig, Mark Sanford, and their ilk..  Greed, and the lust for power, are their true mantra, and god!

  • Runninghard

    Opinions on Steve Colbert’s FEC hearing

    • Jeffreysc

      Like everything Colbert, boring.

      • ThresherK

        Yeah, keep watching those 4 bootleg episodes of Fox’s “Half Hour Newshour” for your satire fix.

        • Jeffreysc

          when i want to laugh, i read you

          • ThresherK

            How does that wrap-around jacket allow you to type?

          • Jeffreysc

            you didn’t, aww, yes you did; good stuff; girl, you should consider writing for comedy central, Ugly Americans maybe

          • ThresherK

            I’d love to find out what you consider funny. You’ve already got one broken compass.

          • Jeffreysc

            one broken compass … again you are incredible; i bow to your use of cliched idioms

          • Guest

            you haven’t taken your meds for the day, have you?

          • Jeffreysc

            classic!  tho only TV Land material i’m afraid

          • ThresherK

            So, you’ve assumed things about my gender that are wrong, and my TV viewing habits that are wrong, and were tired a week ago when they were played by Chris Wallace against Jon Stewart.

            You know what they say about assuming: U make an ASS out of U and…well, just U.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            GOOD ONE!  I wasn’t aware that you were a lady.  Made no gender assumptions. 

          • ThresherK

            Actually, he replied “You go, girl” to me. I took that to think that he thought I was female.

            I guess I can fess up: My real name is Beverly Evelyn Peyton Ashley Taylor Tyler Jordan; that should clear up gender guesses :-) .

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Yes, Lady,  That mess of names pretty well clears up the gender question for me!!!!  :) )  I was referring to his reply.   Unless there is an indication otherwise, I kind of assume a unisex identity of commenters.

      • Anonymous

        Yes, the truth can be boring.  Living in a fantasy world is much less so.

        • Jeffreysc

          comedy central, your source of truth, enough said; speak to us of the truth of Futurama oh enlightened one

          • ThresherK

            It’s the best satire going on TV.

            But to appreciate it you need a bit of a hold on reality. And if Fox and Rush and the rest of the stuff you apparently gulp down were any better, I’d worry about your view of “truth”, and therefore “target”.

          • Jeffreysc

            i’m laughing again; love it when you get all righteous, talk’n about reality!  you go girl

          • ThresherK

            Righteous? The internet needs an emoticon for *yawn, this is another from my autotext file*.

            You are that easily amused, but not by Colbert?

            No wonder nobody wants to play with you.

          • Jeffreysc

            so deep … let’s let that stew a little

  • CS

    Greece: The latest example in a trend, when faced with the choice between helping citizens and saving financial institutions they choose to save the financial institutions at the expense of their citizens, yet again capitalism has trumped democracy.

    • Jeffreysc

      Thinking only one step ahead, would love to play chess with you.

      • Runninghard

        After such profound commentary…who wouldn’t?

      • CS

        I was thinking ahead. Step 2: Begin to build a better society that isn’t based on the false assumption that the market knows best.

        • Cory

          CS, I’d like to buy you an ale or lager of your choosing!

          • Jeffreysc

            right, with your coins?!?  you seem more like the wine-cooler type

          • CS

            Thanks buddy

        • Jeffreysc

          kumbaya, and i thought we were living in the real world …

          • CS

            All I’m saying is that there are options beyond maintaining the status quo. I’m not naive to the repercussions of a Greek default, but at the same time I’m not so cynical that I believe that this is the best we can do as a society.

        • Anonymous

          @cd80d35a25f7f30d6b3bde7b7bb3e6fd:disqus The quibble I would have is that the false assumption is “that the market ALWAYS knows best.”

          There are many areas where the market works wonderfully, though certainly not all (e.g., health care) and usually only with strict regulation in others (e.g., banking, mining, oil and gas extraction just for starters).

          • CS

            Good call, and its a shame a more nuanced dialogue about the uses and misuses of the free market system isn’t taking place in our political dialogue.

          • ThresherK

            Yep. So many people screaming “free market” don’t care about the fine print: Real competition, informed consumers, yaddayaddayadda.

            Don’tcha think the Chicago School sorts would be more hardcore defenders of their belief system?

        • Terry Tree Tree

          CS,   The assumption that ‘the market ALWAYS knows best’, is maintained by some of the most powerful in the market.  It is self-serving of the greedy.  Honest, honorable business knows that the market isn’t always right, and all are trying to sell something.  The laborer sells his labor, the teacher sells their ability to teach, the union skills sell their training and ability to do the job right the first time, under decent safety and work conditions, the indigent sell their lack of opportunity.  Just as a preacher sells his religion, a politician sells their ability to govern, the business leader sells the scarcity of jobs, to get their choice of employees and depress wages, the protection racketeer sells the concept that he won’t break a business, almost everyone sells something.  The use of which part of your body you sell, determines the legality, and to a degree, the price.

      • Cory

        If I were to play chess with you and were losing, I’d simply spill some coins on the floor out of my pocket.  When you dropped to the floor to scoop up the money, I’d swipe a few of your pieces and re-arrange the board to my advantage.

        • Jeffreysc

          like you’ve got coins to spill! ha

    • TomK in Boston

      The corporate media, including NPR, are pathetic on this. Greece is not getting bailed out, the bankers who hold their debt are. The goal is to guarantee that the banks get paid back 100% on their risky loans. This is particularly important because the value of the credit default swaps on greek debt greatly exceeds the value of the debt itself. Even a small “haircut” like 90c on the dollar for the bankers would trigger payoffs of the CDS, and the issuers can’t pay! So, the greek situation is a replay of the bush crash. Average citizens will get screwed so the bankers CDS (“financial weapons of mass destruction” — Warren Buffett) don’t blow up on them.

      • Jeffreysc

        paying back the money you borrowed, only for corporate media; love to see some media, even non-corporate but knowledgable, on size of credit default swaps that nets out notional values and draws lines to specific counterparties; another Buffett lover, check out Bershire’s balance sheet and see how the oracle really feels about financial wmds; he hated them before he loved them before he hated them; not sure where he stands now

      • Cory

        I’ve heard that most Greeks WANT to default.  I don’t blame them, it would be a great experiment in exposing the lies we are fed by our wealth paradigm.

        • Jeffreysc

          yeah, who does want to pay their bills after a big bash? stiff ‘em

          • Anonymous

            @230d099fc51dde3ba5b6fa328f8c64ee:disqus  Just like the Dodger’s owner and countless businesses every year along with those without adequate health insurance who suffer a catastrophic health crisis (around half of all personal bankruptcies each year).

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Don,  Hasn’t there been a lot of Republicans filing bankruptcy?  Besides the Wall Street Banksters?  Besides Donald Trump? 

      • William

        What happens if the banks decide not to loan anymore money to risky nations like Greece, Ireland, Spain, and the USA unless they get a much better return? 

    • Cory

      Let freedom “Ching”?

  • ThresherK

    Whoa, whoa, whoa: Governor Goodhair has a record as a job creator? That doesn’t depend on tons of Federal tax dollars and ObamaStimulus money? And these jobs aren’t predominantly minimum wage?

    Wow. I’ve been reading the wrong real-world economists.

    • Jeffreysc

      assuming that does and they are, i guess it makes him more presidential and Obama-esque

      • ThresherK

        Your life expectancy is short if you haven’t yet recognized the most dangerous place in politics: Between a Teabagger governor and a ribbon-cutting ceremony made possible only with Obama’s stimulus money.

        • Jeffreysc

          judging by his dismal poll numbers, i’m guessing it’s actually wherever Obama’s sitting; rightfully so

          • ThresherK

            Dismal poll numbers? I’ll hold my breath while you excuse Perry, Christie, Daniels, Scott, Walker, or any of those Tea Party govs whose states are suffering from buyer’s remorse.

          • Geri

            Perry, Christie, Daniels, Scott, Walker will each easily be re-elected (if they want) whereas O’bama will be a 1 term President – THANK GOD!!!!!!

            TAKE IT TO THE BANK!!!!!!!!!!!

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Geri,   The banks and corporations will BUY it so.  With all the money they have spent on elections, I have to wonder where they get all that money to give their executives and CEO’s bonuses for bankrupting the company?  Oh, right, taxpayer bailouts and reduced wages for the people that make the products, plus slave-labor in foreign countries!  Just to name a few.  If I was so low as to steal $Billions, I could afford to buy some politicians.  Politicians take an Oath of Office to serve the people, and the best interests of the United States.  When those interests also serve the corporations, and companies, so much the better!  The public oath they take, is to the people, NOT corporations.  They are so ashamed of it, they do NOT campaign openly that they are OWNED by corporations and special interests!

          • Jeffreysc

            Obama’s gonna raise $1B, who owns him?  last time it was the unions and trial lawyers, and they got theirs

          • Anonymous

            @230d099fc51dde3ba5b6fa328f8c64ee:disqus If you think the ONLY thing Obama did, rescue GM and Chrysler, helped the unions, it ALSO gave them a stiff haircut on pension and health care benefits.

            Trial lawyers? What has Obama done for them?

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Don_B1,   Rick Waggoner, CEO of GM, that ran it into bankruptcy, got a $20 Million BONUS, plus his pay and perqs, unlike the union workers that actually built the cars, and had little or no say on corporate policy.  Just another of the ‘best and brightest’ ,like those on Wall Street, that used fraud , and other crimes to make Wall Street banks so rich, that they had to be bailed out by taxpayer money!

          • Jeffreysc

            robots are building the cars, union workers mostly sit in the employee lounge reading People

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Jeffreysc,  Which plants are the robots building the cars, with no human help?  Not the ones that I have worked in!  If robots do it all, they need NO management!  Just a programmer.  Therefore the CEO and ALL other executives are surperfulous!  Makes exorbitant executive pay even MORE ludicrous! Since they mostly just play golf with other exorbitantly paid, superfulous executives.

          • Gregg

            I’d say 2,700 pages of Obama care without one mention of tort reform was a pretty big perk.

          • ThresherK

            Because tort reform drives down the cost of healthcare, except everywhere it’s been tried. Like McAllen, TX.

          • Gregg

            Shallow, out of context, lies of omission analyses seems to be your passion. You are also pretty good at changing the subject. Let me understand to you a coulpa’ things.

            First, DonB1 asked: “Trial lawyers? What has Obama done for them?”
            I answered his question. There is no doubt tort reform would inhibit trial lawyers. Obamacare ignoring the issue completely was certainly a political favor. Ask Howard Dean. So, health care cost, success or failure of tort reform is all beside the point in regards to the question asked. Your reply was a non-sequitur. So there’s that.

            Your lie of omission is tort reform in Texas was statewide not just in McAllen. Why didn’t you pick El paso? I suspect once you saw some hit piece that supported your ideology you simply bought it without question. Typical.

            So what happened in Texas? This:
            The effect of this cap on noneconomic damages has been dramatic. Since
            2003, every malpractice insurance carrier in Texas has reduced their
            premiums for physicians. Texas Medical Liability Trust, the largest
            carrier in Texas has reduced its average premium by over 50%. Claims and
            lawsuits in most Texas counties have been cut in half. Since tort
            reform was passed in Texas, the number of newly licensed doctors in
            Texas went from 2038 in the year before reform to 3621 in 2009. This has
            presumably had a positive effect on access to care. Charity care
            rendered by Texas hospitals rose 24% in the 3 years after tort reform,
            according to the Texas Medical Association. 76 Texas counties have seen a
            net gain in EPs since the passage of tort reform, including 39
            medically underserved counties and 30 counties that are partially
            underserved.

            Hope that helps.

          • CS

            Goldman Sachs donated just under $1B to his 2008 campaign and Citigroup, JP Morgan Chase, UBS, and Morgan Stanley were all in the top twenty, but yeah I’m sure the unions and trial lawyers own a little slice.

          • CS

            Correction: Goldman contributed just under $1M 

          • Jeffreysc

            unions:  $400 million; i’ll get you the trial lawyers next

          • CS

            let me know where you got your numbers i got mine from opensecrets.org

          • CS

            thats just nuts

          • ThresherK

            Isn’t this all Geri ever says? Think we got a bot on our hands.

        • Terry Tree Tree

          ThresherK,   Trampled to death by the greedo?

          • ThresherK

            Mere greed would be a more politically palatable and even honorable description. These sorts keep whining about the spending that’s keeping them something like afloat at this point in the business cycle, while waiting for the corporations to “do something” with all the cash they’ve been hoarding. (That “not enough demand” isn’t part of their lingo is telling.)

      • Cory

        How many jobs were we losing monthly in the final year of the REPUBLICAN Bush administration in 2008?

        • Jeffreysc

          i prefer to think of it as the second year of the Democratic congress, and it was a big ugly number; thankfully in 2010 demo politicians were held accountable by the american public; more to come i’m sure

          • Anonymous

            @230d099fc51dde3ba5b6fa328f8c64ee:disqus Since you the Republicans in the Senate hold a veto power (filibuster) over ANY and ALL legislation (Now there is your “inconvenient truth”), Congress to this day is not really a Democratic Congress, with the exception of a couple months of 2009 (and even then, one of the “votes” was Sen. Lieberman and another was Sen. Ben Nelson, senators from the insurance industry).

          • Gregg

            That’s an interesting take but you’re making excuses. Robert Gibbs used that same flawed logic during the debate over tax cuts. In truth, there were not the votes to raise taxes before or after Republicans took the House. The idea that Democrats shouldn’t even try to pass  legislation because of some perceived threat of a filibuster really does make the Democrats out to be a pathetic bunch. Why not propose a policy, submit a bill and dare the Republicans to filibuster? If Democrats have sound reasoning and the people on their side then Republicans will pay a price for doing so.

            How often have Republicans actually filibustered?

      • JimmyKl

        I’m still waiting for those shovel-ready projects he promised. But he promises a lot.

    • Cory

      I’m sorry, you’ll need to be more specific.  “Gov. Goodhair” describes most republican governors.

      • Gregg

        Blago?

      • ThresherK

        Molly Ivins coined that term for Rick Perry.

  • Terry Tree Tree

    Was Michelle Bachman RAPED to get that child that she was devestated to lose?  Has she ever carried to term, and raised a child that was impregnated by rape, or incest?  Was she lied to “Baby, I’ll love you FOREVER, if you let me!!”  to get pregnant?  

    • Jeffreysc

      remember Tucson, guess not

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Jeffreysc,   Tucson?

        • Gregg

           Yea, Tucson. How quickly we forget when ideology gets in the way.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Gregg,  Michelle Bachman was publicly raped in Tucson?   I’m sorry to hear it!  I didn’t do it, I don’t rape.

          • Gregg

            Ugh!

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Gregg,  Evidently, you and Jeffreysc are privy to info that I missed.  The only news of Tucson I have heard of , in a while, is about Gabrielle Giffords, and several others being shot, and the illegal alien court ruling.  I have tried to figure out what you were referring to, from your replies.   Sorry that I evidently missed your points.

          • Gregg

            When Gabrielle Giffords was shot, the left went apoplectic over Sarah Palin’s typical, well-worn bi-partisan rhetoric. Tom Ashbrook said her injury was “a consequence” of Palin’s target graph but he didn’t say “her injury”. He described it in a graphic manner that got me deleted and banned when I repeated it. We had a CNN anchor subsequently apologize for a guest harmlessly using the phrase “in the crosshairs” in an unrelated news story. Political correctness and irrational partisanship fueled by a visceral hate for Republicans dictated that we censor every word. We should always “remember Tuscon”.

            Now look at you. You are concocting scenarios about Miochelle Bachmann with rhetoric that is completely over the top… in capital letters…. repeatedly. Why the hate? What will be the “consequence”?

            To be fair, while I do think it hideous, I do not think your rhetoric will inspire the acts you cite. But that is the standard the left set.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            Gregg,  I was just asking a question to two replies, that I couldn’t make out the reference to.  Rape was mentioned in the exchange, Michelle Bachman, and Tucson.  I don’t always catch the news, for various reasons.  I put the references together as I could.
                 I have stated my views on rape.  I truly hope that if someone tries to use my comments , to excuse rape, that they impose the sentence on themselves FIRST! 

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Jeffreysc,   Michelle Bachman was raped in Tucson?  When?  By whom?  Is he being kept financially responsible for the child?  Has he raped before?  More info please!

  • Diane

    Please comment on Kansas’s legislation on regulation of abortion clinics.  Does this foreshadow the GOP/TP agenda if they win the White House and Congress?

    • Diane

      Wrong State- not Kansas.  It is South Dakota.

      • ThresherK

        Isn’t it both?

        Kansas, after allowing a man to shoot a doctor who was attending church, now decided to do the work-by-other-means of stopping those icky abortions by enacting a draconian law affecting only clinics which offer abortion for a pile (three dozen pages) of picayune regulations. This was not yet finalized before it started being enforced.

        Lawsuits are in the offing.

        And this is what Teabaggers are doing: Jobs are job N+1!

        • notafeminista

          Allowing?  Really? I don’t suppose you know the status of the man who stood accused of the act you describe?

          • ThresherK

            And I suppose you get as many death threats as Kansan doctors who happen to perform aboritions.

            It’s part of the culture there: Never thought I’d see the day when shooting a man in a church isn’t just abhorred by everyone.

          • notafeminista

            Oh its part of the culture….right.   The unenlightened, uneducated, backwards culture.  As opposed to the culture that defends terminating a pregnancy as a result of rape or incest.  Terminating the one entity that the bad luck to be a result of an abhorrent act.  So much better.

          • ThresherK

            At least you’re on record. Nice to know nobody in your family will ever, ever need an abortion for any reason whatsoever.

            Hope you’re well practised in the rhythm method: The right wing is after birth control too.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Greg-Vitercik/1140871901 Greg Vitercik

    This entire hour seems to be about skating the surface.  Perry “has a good jobs record”; Bachmann knocked out Pawlenty; KISSINGER doesn’t like Obama’s “strategy.”  KISSINGER???  We need a strategy like his glorious triumph in Viet Nam, so different from “letting the Taliban win”?  What is wrong with you people? 

  • nj

    What the heck, Tom? The prospect for more “free-trade” agreements is “positive”?

    • Cory

      Haven’t you heard?  A rising tide lifts all boats?  I certainly feel like a “floater” after 30 years of voodoo economics.

      • Zing

        If you feel like a floater it’s because EPA mandated tanks are smaller.

      • Zing

        Your instincts are right. After all, what is a floater but a POS that won’t go away?

      • Gregg

        You’re mixing your Kennedy and GHWB metaphors. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Greg-Vitercik/1140871901 Greg Vitercik

    And “Pawlenty left with a surplus” so he is in now way responsible for the deficit less than half a year after he left office?
    Don’t chickens ever come home to roost in your world?

    And your “analysis” of the Strauss-Kahn story was simply an example of the bias your caller described: Strauss-Kahn may be a monster, but that woman wasn’t entirely forthcoming in every detail. So it’s right that he be released and that she be forced to recant.

    This was probably the WORST On Point discussion I have ever heard.

    • Anonymous

      @facebook-1140871901:disqus Right! That Pawlenty HID (past tense of “to Hide”) a $ SIX (6) BILLION DEFICIT (that is when spending exceeds revenue) by “borrowing” from other accounts and then REFUSING TO OBEY the LAW and submit a two-year budget for the next two years which would have had to show how that borrowed money would be repaid/replaced should NOT be allowed to go unsaid.

      But the Republicans in the Minnesota legislature now are trying to cover it up by making the middle class and poor pay.

  • Jeffreysc

    socialist-loving democratic prosecutor’s office undermining the case of a powerless immigrant; watch out Sarkozy

  • http://twitter.com/FilipinoBoston FilipinoBoston

    I have a degree in Political Economics but outcome of the ceiling will lead to more borrowing from China. if the WW2 saved America from the great depression. A war with China will Write Off America’s debt.
    Forget about paying China back for U.S. machineries in china’s factories can be collateral damage.

  • Robb / western Ma

    WHY WAS THIS POST DELETED NOW THREE TIMES? It doesn’t violate the terms of service!
    Yes! As one of the guests mentions the GOP controls the budget narrative in Washington… but their position is totally irrational.
    Again the problem is with the Democrat’s historical cowardice in confronting the lies and distortions of the far Right. They have had now THIRTY YEARS to blunt one of the Right’s key strategies… to “starve the beast”, that is to sabotage the finances of the government then use that debt it as a pretense to cut Democratic programs, and the Dems have surrendered the field allowing these lies and distortion to prevail. Now that cowardice is coming home to roost and the GOP is going in for the kill.
    Why hasn’t Obama been on a truth offensive with charts and graphs lecturing the public in prime time explaining how revenues are at historic lows, that the Bush tax cuts were so irresponsible that in constant dollars revenues have been virtually FLAT for a decade, or that it is IMMORAL for our generation to have spent $13.5 TRILLION on ourselves these past 30 years yet refuse to pay for it?

    Obama was a fool to have compromised with the GOP last December. He should have let the Bush tax cuts expire. Why he gave up that leverage and moral high ground in beyond me.
     

    • William

      What is wrong with starving the beast? Should we give more money to the government so they can spend it on “cowboy poetry?” Any reasonable man would have to say the massive amount of spending over the last ten years would indicate that the “beast” needs to go on a massive diet. 

      • Robb /

        So let me guess, you’re outraged by some silly earmarks and don’t give a crap about the $2.9 TRILLION that was pissed away on interest during the Bush years? Do you seriously believe the GOP can starve the government of revenue and it’s a free lunch? Ya, you probably do. THE DEBT EXISTS. WE SPENT $13.5 TRILLION IN THE LAST 30 years YEARS AND WE HAVE REFUSED TO PAY OUR BILLS.  Oh, maybe you it is a free lunch. We just dump the bill on our kids. THEY pay more in taxes, get less in return.   In the end, debt can NOT be paid down except with excess revenue… and we were there in 2001 and the GOP sabotaged debt pay down with round after round of tax cuts for which they had to BORROW. The Tea Party mob is more irresponsible than Bush was and these are the people you trust with the budget now?  Ya, you probably do.

        • William

          I’m not endorsing spending by either side. If you hate Bush’s spending you must really be going crazy over the Obama spending the last two years.

          I’m in favor of massive spending cuts across the board. Huge elimination of government agencies, programs etc..etc..etc….

          • ThresherK

            …at this point in the business cycle? Wrong time to do it. If it’s such a deathless solution, let’s implement it when a Republican is in the White House. If we’re really on the Titanic and have hit the iceberg, why the little fit about the second-class passengers trying to grab food from the first-class buffet? It doesn’t make a difference, if it’s what you say it is.

            You’ve got only a hammer, and everything looks like a nail.

            And it takes a lot of needle-threading to find the One True rightie who was everywhere screaming bloody murder about Bush’s failure to do anything on the budget during a 5-year expansion.

          • Terry Tree Tree

            ThresherK,   I agree with each point!   Amazing that they only desire to do the ‘right’ thing, when they don’t have the Office.

      • JimmyKl

        Unfortunately many of the unproductive are beholden to the beast.  They, their unions and representatives are all unified in feeding the beast.  They don’t pay for it so they’re happy to call for others to.

      • CS

        “cowboy poetry”? please explain
         

    • Gregg

      “Why hasn’t Obama been on a truth offensive with charts and graphs
      lecturing the public in prime time explaining how revenues are at
      historic lows…”

      Maybe because they are not at historic lows and there isn’t a revenue problem, it’s a spending problem. In each of his first two years Clinton had hundreds and hundreds of billions less and did fine. I don’t see how you can argue, it’s your logic.

  • Jeffreysc

    I love it when Obama talks about leadership, such an out-of-body experience for him, very theoretical.

    • Cory

      Someone told me he wasn’t even born in America.

      • Jeffreysc

        hadn’t heard that one

  • Gail

    Debt Ceiling Debate: Politicians using political theater for the public to consume. 

    The real issue for the public to focus on is that average Americans are victims of a dysfunctional political system that must be changed.

    Our politicians have given our tax dollars away to special interests and the wealthy through tax breaks and legislation. In return, these same politicians then receive financial campaign contributions from these very special interests and the wealthy in order to stay in office.

    As a start – a political movement from the ground up and a Teddy Roosevelt-type President who will break up corporate monopolies and mega banks through anti-trust laws and amend the constitution to define that persons are “natural” persons to eliminate corporate personhood.

  • Robb /

    So let me guess, you’re outraged by some silly earmarks and don’t give a crap about the $2.9 TRILLION that was pissed away on interest during the Bush years? Do you seriously believe the GOP can starve the government of revenue and it’s a free lunch? Ya, you probably do. THE DEBT EXISTS. WE SPENT $13.5 TRILLION IN THE LAST 30 years YEARS AND WE HAVE REFUSED TO PAY OUR BILLS.  Oh, maybe you it is a free lunch. We just dump the bill on our kids. THEY pay more in taxes, get less in return.   In the end, debt can NOT be paid down except with excess revenue… and we were there in 2001 and the GOP sabotaged debt pay down with round after round of tax cuts for which they had to BORROW. The Tea Party mob is more irresponsible than Bush was and these are the people you trust with the budget now?  Ya, you probably do.

    • Robb / western Ma

      Duplicate post above… PLEASE DELETE!!!

    • Wewrykowski

      Don’t know that you are not wasting your breath on those people who continue to support a return to 19th Century style government. Then again, I notice that none of them make any effort to consume only food and/or drugs that are not government inspected, just for example. So they aren’t really interested in putting their mouths where they claim their money is.

      • Gregg

        You guys are a hoot!

  • Terry Tree Tree

    Interesting,  NO answer from Ed.  I grew up on a farm, and saw animals engage in homosexual behavior. I never saw anyone ‘teaching them’ to be that way.  It seems to come natural to a small percentage.  Personally, I am tolerant, but not interested.  Consenting adults are consenting adults.

    • Zing

      But you’re interested enough to beat up Ed.  I grew up on a farm and believe you confused manure with food.

      • Terry Tree Tree

        Zing,   Beat up Ed?  If that is what you call civil discourse, and pointing out facts, there are far worse than that on here, and other forums.  Ed tried to use a very corrupt religion to make his point.  I tire of their hypocracy!  Explain how adult homosexuality is worse than homosexual child-molesting by an authority-figure, please.  How many lives have been devestated by those pervert hypocrites?  Why would a church defend, and hide them from justice, unless most of the church leadership has done the same, or worse?
             If you grew up on a farm, how could you believe that I could mistake manure for food, except for dung beetles?

        • Terry Tree Tree

          I meant to say I’m not a dung beetle.  I was a bit perplexed at being accused of beating someone up.  I help victims, not create them.

  • Zing

    And all this time I thought the president’s name was Obama

  • Gregg

    If Democrats are going to hold the debt ceiling talks hostage to tax hikes then I say default.

    • Jeffreysc

      libbies seem to be encouraging the Greeks to do, so why not

      • Gregg

        Greece is where we are headed if we don’t find some fiscal sanity and raising the debt limit every time we hit it means there is no limit.  For a successful blueprint look at the amazing turn arounds in New Jersey, Indiana, Ohio and Wisconsin. I’m not sure what they have in common.

  • Fredlinskip

    Wouldn’t it be better idea if there was a box on all payroll checks dedicated to withholdings for support of millionaire and billionaires. Wouldn’t this be more effiicent way to do what we are doing now with present tax policy?

  • Gregg

    Obama said in his most recent press conference: “”Are you willing to compromise your kids’ safety so some corporate-jet owner can get a tax break?”

    Does anybody buy that? Is it uniting? Even the far left Mark Halperin of Time is fed up and was spot on with his criticism. I’ve spent more time banned than not on this site so I’ll let ya’ll look it up yourselves.

    • ThresherK

      “Even far left Mark Halperin of TIme”?

      I did some looking up and found out that that’s the same guy who called the President a “dick”.

      • Michael

        lol,

      • Gregg

        That’s my point but I was afraid to put up the link. When lefties like Halperin turn on Obama it can’t be good. The expression on his face during the apology after he realized it was aired was priceless. He is now suspended. It is perfectly acceptable on MSNBC to call Bush/Cheney much worse. And it’s certainly less offensive than using homo-erotic terms to describe Tea Partiers which happens all the time on that network. They even throw the word “racist” around with astonishing ease. I have no idea why he was suspended

        • ThresherK

          “Lefty like Mark Halperin.” “Called Bush/Cheney much worse than ‘dick’.”

          This has been another edition of “I can explain it to you, but I can’t undersatnd it to you.”

          You’re revealing more about yourself than your subject.

    • david

      Hey Gregg, you are back for more punishment!
      Obama in press conf- created a new evil for the left to relish upon, the evil corporate-jet users. Obama is grasping for straws now.
      Here is a contradiction of his, worth researching, guess who in the last stimulus gave money to the corporate jet builders????
      Here is yet another, they throw out that the oil companies are getting subsidies from the govt. or we taxpayers, well! that may not be true! Guess who did get subsidies from the govt.?????
      http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/05/about_those_oil_subsidies.html

      • Gregg

        Great article, thanks!

  • Fredlinskip

    Wouldn’t it be better if there was a box on all payroll checks dedicated to withholdings for support of millionaire and billionaires. Wouldn’t this streamline the process a bit? That’s one entitlement that will apparently never be threatened.(sorry for repeat- having difficulty posting)

  • Terry Tree Tree

    How many State Legislatures, and the U.S. Congress and Senate, have cut their OWN pay and perqs, a multiple of the percentage they demand of workers, with only one income?  Leading by example, anyone?  LEADING?

  • Terry Tree Tree

    EACH Congressman, Congresswoman, and Senator should place on the chopping block, the industry, or business of their largest contributors, to prove they are being unbiased.  If we could get rid of ALL organized crime in the U.S., we could live twice as good, as we do now, on 1/10 of what it costs us now!  This includes corrupt politicians, blackmail of people in the closet and those cheating on their spouses, etc…
         FULL DISCLOSURE, is the real answer.  When you know who contributed what to whom, most of the time you know how they will vote, and function.  If they cannot face full disclosure, they don’t belong in public office.

    • david

      Term limits would help, five years only. The politicians would then be more concerned about their legacy than they would their re-elections.
      Politicians have been corrupted by the glitter of Washington. They will do and say anything to stay there.
      We the People have the power, the vote!

      • ThresherK

        Term limit for politicians, but not lobbyists?

        Then it’s a bunch of Mr. Smith wannabes who have to go up against entrenched K-streeters, and get evicted from their seats (if they’re not defeated) just when they’re learning how things work.

        I’ll take experienced pols, and some no-revolving-door regs with teeth in them. Sometimes the best solution isn’t so simple.

        And Senators are in for 6-year terms. How is that 5-year thing gonna work?

        • Terry Tree Tree

          ThresherK,   Good points!  Some that need to be considered.  Also the career bureaucrats would have the upper hand in dealing with the politicians.

        • Zing

          When you gonna run and draft regs, mouth…?

  • david

    It is a amazing thing, a couple years ago on this site, when we were debating Obamacare, the site was full of people praising the European model of healthcare, that included Greece and the govt. can solve all your problems position. Now that reality has hit the European system, we say there is no comparison between the USA and them, strange?
    The European system is where we are headed, that is what many stated they wanted here on this site just a few short years ago.
    Europe tried the big Govt. solution, it is failing. They are now returning, really funny, back to a private sector style.
    What is even more funny and tragic, we cannot see that we are headed into the same failed situation.
    The old saying, the blind leading the blind, the results: they both fall headlong into the hole!
    Wake up, America! we are being led into bondage, history is repeating itself.

  • Ranndino

    The female caller who called in to comment about the former IMF chief’s case was very predictable. Before she even said anything I thought, “Oh here we go” & she didn’t disappoint by spouting completely ignorant, feminist garbage that had nothing to do with the actual facts of the case. The latest news in this case was a shocker only to those who automatically assume a man’s guilt every time there’s a rape accusation. This case stunk bad to me from the moment it hit the news. Why would a very successful & intelligent man (he didn’t become the chief of IMF by being stupid) who is able to afford one of New York’s finest if he’s that horny flush his career down the toilet by raping some hotel maid? Had the prosecution asked this very logical question at the beginning maybe Strauss-Kahn would still be the chief of IMF. Unlike the typically combative, ignorant female caller stated he is clearly the victim in this case, not his accuser. I don’t condone rape in any way, but sometimes the woman is the bad person because her lies destroy a man’s life. Women should really try & think objectively about these case & not jump to conclusions every time. Somehow even after the facts clearly show that the maid lied in the caller’s mind she is still the victim & Strauss-Kahn is getting away with rape. As the female guest on the show clearly pointed out the maid has not been put on any trial as the caller stupidly suggested. It’s her side (the prosecution) that found evidence of her lying. Try to get your facts straight before calling in next time, lady.

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Time magazine May 21, 2012

A breast-feeding three-year-old – and mom – on the cover of Time Magazine. We’ll talk with the guru of “attachment parenting.”

 
May 15, 2012
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People arrive at JPMorgan Chase headquarters in New York Monday, May 14, 2012. JPMorgan, the largest bank in the United States, is seeking to minimize the damage caused by a $2 billion trading loss, disclosed Thursday by CEO Jamie Dimon. (AP)

Two billion dollars lost in a flash by JP Morgan. Is this an argument for the Volcker rule – cracking down on speculative bets by the banks?

On Point Blog
On Point Blog
Literary On Point
Monday, May 14, 2012

Enjoy Toni Morrison? Check out these On Point interviews with…

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Baby Names
Monday, May 14, 2012

The Social Security Administration released today its top 1,000 baby name list for 2011.

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Toni Morrison Stuck In Traffic
Wednesday, May 9, 2012

What happened to Toni Morrison?

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