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Sex, Lies and Powerful Men

From Arnold Schwarzenegger to Dominique Strauss-Kahn, we look at the sexual conduct of men in power.

Dominique Strauss-Kahn in Manhattan Criminal Court (AP)

Dominique Strauss-Kahn in Manhattan Criminal Court (AP)

From Arnold Schwarzenegger to Dominique Strauss-Kahn, we look at the sexual conduct of men in power. Birds do it, bees do it, and men in power do it, it appears – yet again – with extravagant abandon.

An avalanche of news this week about Arnold Schwarzenegger’s affair, busted marriage, and child by a maid.  Of disgraced former IMF head Dominique Strauss-Kahn’s alleged sexual assault on a hotel maid in New York.

And behind those headlines, years of reports of sexual license by each – and so many others.  John Ensign, John Edwards, Elliott Spitzer, David Vitter, Newt Gingrich, Bill Clinton – and on and on. Never mind Berlusconi.

This hour On Point: the sexual conduct of men in power.

- Tom Ashbrook

Guests:

Peggy Hollinger, Paris Bureau Chief for the Financial Times.

Marisa Lagos, staff writer for the San Francisco Chronicle, who has been covering the Schwarzenegger story.

Nancy Gibbs, Executive Editor of TIME magazine. She wrote this week’s TIME cover story “Sex, Lies, Arrogance: What Makes Powerful Men Behave So Badly.”

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  • Michael

    At least the terminator didn’t run on moral/family values. I believe if he did the media would be justified in hyping up this story. If the story is true about Kahn I hope he rots for a good while.

    • Marcus91

      Here’s why the Kahn accusation must be true.  If it was false why wouldn’t he be screaming from the rooftops that it was consensual or that nothing happened??  The fact that he’s not freaking out about the accusation speaks loud and clearly about the truth. 

      • Osullivan in SD

        Hi Marcus, reading the french press….. his lawyers are strongly saying that it was consensual and that he is innocent. This story is so huge in france and the conspiracy theorists are out in force… the suggestion being that this was a set-up on the part of Sarkozy et al. (DSK is his political rival) and higher powers at Wall Street (DSK is/was strongly Pro banking reform) ! Who knows……. I’m struck though that this guy was in a place to influence millions of lives and perhaps set France on a straighter path and now because of his stupidity (and other words) it’s all over. DSK is an idiot (and other words!!).

  • Ellen Dibble

     If I were thinking of sexually attacking a woman with a West African accent, a widow with a teenage child, a quick appraisal of the age and accent would have made me want an HIV test printout first.  Maybe an IMF person knows more than I do about this than I do, however, but the degree of rashness, this puts leadership from wherever it is into a whole new light.  Or are economists mainly mathematical techies, unfamiliar with ramifications and responsibilities and sensitivities of every sort whatsoever?   
        As to the Kennedy family into the third generation, nothing surprises me.  I mean, I think someone from such a milieu could throw herself into a marriage with considerable equipment, traditional and cultural and familial, as to what I’ll call expectations.  If such a woman sees and chooses a preferable path (living elsewhere, getting a divorce), using a European (Austrian?) perspective, then conceivably from that perspective, she is the one being unfaithful.  
        Pragmatism is an American characteristic, but we can be awfully pigheaded too, and here we have two European males in the spotlight, and we are applying whose values?  Is this about males in power or about clash of civilizations? 

    • Think again!

      Ellen, I hope you’ll rethink your first statement.

      This was a rape.

      The head of the IMF raping a hotel maid and thinking nothing of it (in terms of the woman’s feelings!!! not in terms of his own health!!!) epitomizes for me the attitude of the extremely wealthy and powerful toward the rest of the world.

      This was a rape. It would have been a rape if it had occurred in France or anywhere else in the world. There’s nothing “cultural” about it.

      • Ellen Dibble

        I don’t think I said the maid thing was not a rape.  However, I do know that in this country people are presumed innocent.  And I find myself transcribing many court trials for appellate attorneys who are defending those convicted, or defense attorneys defending those accused.  I am used to approaching these things with every possible “reasonable doubt” firmly in place.  We have a justice system that does guarantee that.

      • Ellen Dibble

        I don’t think I said the maid thing was not a rape.  However, I do know that in this country people are presumed innocent.  And I find myself transcribing many court trials for appellate attorneys who are defending those convicted, or defense attorneys defending those accused.  I am used to approaching these things with every possible “reasonable doubt” firmly in place.  We have a justice system that does guarantee that.

      • Ellen Dibble

        I don’t think I said the maid thing was not a rape.  However, I do know that in this country people are presumed innocent.  And I find myself transcribing many court trials for appellate attorneys who are defending those convicted, or defense attorneys defending those accused.  I am used to approaching these things with every possible “reasonable doubt” firmly in place.  We have a justice system that does guarantee that.

      • Ellen Dibble

        I don’t think I said the maid thing was not a rape.  However, I do know that in this country people are presumed innocent.  And I find myself transcribing many court trials for appellate attorneys who are defending those convicted, or defense attorneys defending those accused.  I am used to approaching these things with every possible “reasonable doubt” firmly in place.  We have a justice system that does guarantee that.

      • Ellen Dibble

        I don’t think I said the maid thing was not a rape.  However, I do know that in this country people are presumed innocent.  And I find myself transcribing many court trials for appellate attorneys who are defending those convicted, or defense attorneys defending those accused.  I am used to approaching these things with every possible “reasonable doubt” firmly in place.  We have a justice system that does guarantee that.

      • Ellen Dibble

        I don’t think I said the maid thing was not a rape.  However, I do know that in this country people are presumed innocent.  And I find myself transcribing many court trials for appellate attorneys who are defending those convicted, or defense attorneys defending those accused.  I am used to approaching these things with every possible “reasonable doubt” firmly in place.  We have a justice system that does guarantee that.

      • Ellen Dibble

        I don’t think I said the maid thing was not a rape.  However, I do know that in this country people are presumed innocent.  And I find myself transcribing many court trials for appellate attorneys who are defending those convicted, or defense attorneys defending those accused.  I am used to approaching these things with every possible “reasonable doubt” firmly in place.  We have a justice system that does guarantee that.

    • Tina

       Or, might steroids and viagra be in the mix — IF used, they’d be  voluntarily used, so responsibility for one’s choices would still apply.  I just wonder.  Arnold’s overall shape certainly looks steroidal; has this been investigated?  

      • Ellen Dibble

        I am thinking the head of the IMF felt violated by the maid walking in on him naked, and thought that entitled him.
            Really, we don’t know.  I have a hard time imagining it.  Violation and violence — even France finds this unthinkable.
            As to viagra being in the mix, this would be the 10-year matter, where some planning could be involved.  Virility has led to some interesting exploits on the part of men, in my experience, with one individual, having hit retirement, apparently with the approval or at least acquiescence, needed me to some freelance work.  He seemed to think that OF COURSE women in the employ of men would willingly participate in things sexual, starting with a shared spa treatment at the public bath up the street.  I couldn’t believe what he had in mind — certain outreach was more than suggestive.  But that was soon after Viagra became available, and I think he and his wife determined that this was a new right, and he had the right to behave like a teenager.  It was, however, enough to correct the misunderstanding to him and his wife, and let the whole thing evaporate.

      • Ellen Dibble

        I am thinking the head of the IMF felt violated by the maid walking in on him naked, and thought that entitled him.
            Really, we don’t know.  I have a hard time imagining it.  Violation and violence — even France finds this unthinkable.
            As to viagra being in the mix, this would be the 10-year matter, where some planning could be involved.  Virility has led to some interesting exploits on the part of men, in my experience, with one individual, having hit retirement, apparently with the approval or at least acquiescence, needed me to some freelance work.  He seemed to think that OF COURSE women in the employ of men would willingly participate in things sexual, starting with a shared spa treatment at the public bath up the street.  I couldn’t believe what he had in mind — certain outreach was more than suggestive.  But that was soon after Viagra became available, and I think he and his wife determined that this was a new right, and he had the right to behave like a teenager.  It was, however, enough to correct the misunderstanding to him and his wife, and let the whole thing evaporate.

      • Ellen Dibble

        I am thinking the head of the IMF felt violated by the maid walking in on him naked, and thought that entitled him.
            Really, we don’t know.  I have a hard time imagining it.  Violation and violence — even France finds this unthinkable.
            As to viagra being in the mix, this would be the 10-year matter, where some planning could be involved.  Virility has led to some interesting exploits on the part of men, in my experience, with one individual, having hit retirement, apparently with the approval or at least acquiescence, needed me to some freelance work.  He seemed to think that OF COURSE women in the employ of men would willingly participate in things sexual, starting with a shared spa treatment at the public bath up the street.  I couldn’t believe what he had in mind — certain outreach was more than suggestive.  But that was soon after Viagra became available, and I think he and his wife determined that this was a new right, and he had the right to behave like a teenager.  It was, however, enough to correct the misunderstanding to him and his wife, and let the whole thing evaporate.

      • Ellen Dibble

        I am thinking the head of the IMF felt violated by the maid walking in on him naked, and thought that entitled him.
            Really, we don’t know.  I have a hard time imagining it.  Violation and violence — even France finds this unthinkable.
            As to viagra being in the mix, this would be the 10-year matter, where some planning could be involved.  Virility has led to some interesting exploits on the part of men, in my experience, with one individual, having hit retirement, apparently with the approval or at least acquiescence, needed me to some freelance work.  He seemed to think that OF COURSE women in the employ of men would willingly participate in things sexual, starting with a shared spa treatment at the public bath up the street.  I couldn’t believe what he had in mind — certain outreach was more than suggestive.  But that was soon after Viagra became available, and I think he and his wife determined that this was a new right, and he had the right to behave like a teenager.  It was, however, enough to correct the misunderstanding to him and his wife, and let the whole thing evaporate.

    • Tina

       Or, might steroids and viagra be in the mix — IF used, they’d be  voluntarily used, so responsibility for one’s choices would still apply.  I just wonder.  Arnold’s overall shape certainly looks steroidal; has this been investigated?  

    • Tina

       Or, might steroids and viagra be in the mix — IF used, they’d be  voluntarily used, so responsibility for one’s choices would still apply.  I just wonder.  Arnold’s overall shape certainly looks steroidal; has this been investigated?  

  • Anonymous

     I was reminded of the Genghis Khan exhibit I saw in the Denver Museum of Nature and Science a few years back, here’s the gist (from National Geographic, 2003):
    “Genghis Khan, the fearsome Mongolian warrior of the 13th century, may have done more than rule the largest empire in the world; according to a recently published genetic study, he may have helped populate it too.
    An international group of geneticists studying Y-chromosome data have found that nearly 8 percent of the men living in the region of the former Mongol empire carry y-chromosomes that are nearly identical. That translates to 0.5 percent of the male population in the world, or roughly 16 million descendants living today.”

  • Loring Palmer [Mr.]

     A person may be a great leader, brilliant intellectual, rich or poor—and still be at the moral age of an adolescent.  Clearly,  Mr. Khan needs to do some shadow work.
                                                                     *Lor, from Somerville

  • Yar

    Tom, 
    I object to your reference to  Arnold Schwarzenegger’s child he had with his employee as a “love child”.  Language is important, anytime a employer has a relationship with a employee it is suspect.  I think there should be a presumption of guilt for the employer.  The power dynamic takes away free choice.  Even if an employee attempts to start a relationship, the employer is at fault for allowing it to happen.   We must change our attitudes on allowing men in power to take advantage of their position.

    • Ellen Dibble

      I think you are taking a stand against a hormonal fact of life.  Men will try to establish positions of power IN ORDER TO sway women into their orbit, IN ORDER TO be more attractive to females.
         And guess what, women fit right into this reality by being attracted to just those things.  It’s like birds developing red plumage in order to attract females, and the females being attracted thereby.  Other females, maybe not so much. 

    • Ellen Dibble

      I think you are taking a stand against a hormonal fact of life.  Men will try to establish positions of power IN ORDER TO sway women into their orbit, IN ORDER TO be more attractive to females.
         And guess what, women fit right into this reality by being attracted to just those things.  It’s like birds developing red plumage in order to attract females, and the females being attracted thereby.  Other females, maybe not so much. 

    • Ellen Dibble

      I think you are taking a stand against a hormonal fact of life.  Men will try to establish positions of power IN ORDER TO sway women into their orbit, IN ORDER TO be more attractive to females.
         And guess what, women fit right into this reality by being attracted to just those things.  It’s like birds developing red plumage in order to attract females, and the females being attracted thereby.  Other females, maybe not so much. 

    • Ellen Dibble

      I think you are taking a stand against a hormonal fact of life.  Men will try to establish positions of power IN ORDER TO sway women into their orbit, IN ORDER TO be more attractive to females.
         And guess what, women fit right into this reality by being attracted to just those things.  It’s like birds developing red plumage in order to attract females, and the females being attracted thereby.  Other females, maybe not so much. 

  • L R Dunn

    Rape, in whatever form, is a completely different issue than is infidelity. 
    If Strauss-Kahn is guilty, he must be punished to the fullest extend of what the law allows.
    There is no excuse for sexual assault. Period.

    Infidelity is not the exclusive domain of men.
    Infidelity offers other considerations when it involves American government officials including, first and foremost, security.In the case of the Schwarzenegger, I frankly do not care about it at all. In the case of Bill Clinton, for whom I voted, I thought it showed an incredible lack of discipline, common sense, and an unfathomable lack of respect for the country, office, and job. Clinton was POTUS. Schwarzenegger was the Governor of California, a massively important job to be sure but one of an entirely different order than is POTUS.I consider the governor’s issue to be personal. I am not a fan and would not have voted for him had I lived in California when he ran for office.
    That high energy hard charging powerful people often have high libidos is not news. Even so, in this America, more is required of those to whom we hand the keys of power than lip service to knee jerk phrases such as ‘Family Values’.

  • Freeman

    Money,power and hubris; ” If ” he is guilty; do the crime,do the time. Enough said !!
    Wonder how Californians like paying for Arnolds “second” family ?? 

  • Yar

     Why isn’t “no unregistered sexual contact” written into the employment contracts for the positions of power.  Any CEO, coach, or politician that would not sign such a contract, should not be hired in the first place.  I fault the organization that empowered the man in the first place.  If a CEO wants to fool around then the corporation needs to know it won’t affect profits.  Having the other person involved in the relationship sign a consent form with a independent third party is a reasonable requirement.  
    If men involved won’t sign such a contract I bet women CEO’s will. 

    • Tina

      Women CEO’s aren’t always a walk in the park.   

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       That already exists.  Look at the harrassment policies of many companies.  Beyond that, it’s none of anyone’s business but those involved.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       That already exists.  Look at the harrassment policies of many companies.  Beyond that, it’s none of anyone’s business but those involved.

    • Ellen Dibble

      It seems to me that women are seen as “shameless hussies” unless they have a diamond ring on the specific finger.  One needs to know that she is tethered.  Or you can get a fortune teller to tell you who she is likely to link up with.  But women who are loose are considered “loose.”  Men, sometimes employers don’t care so much.  (Something like that.) 

    • Ellen Dibble

      It seems to me that women are seen as “shameless hussies” unless they have a diamond ring on the specific finger.  One needs to know that she is tethered.  Or you can get a fortune teller to tell you who she is likely to link up with.  But women who are loose are considered “loose.”  Men, sometimes employers don’t care so much.  (Something like that.) 

    • Ellen Dibble

      It seems to me that women are seen as “shameless hussies” unless they have a diamond ring on the specific finger.  One needs to know that she is tethered.  Or you can get a fortune teller to tell you who she is likely to link up with.  But women who are loose are considered “loose.”  Men, sometimes employers don’t care so much.  (Something like that.) 

  • Leora

     Can we PLEASE stop conflating rape and infidelity under the umbrella of sexual conduct? How loud do we have to say it? RAPE IS NOT ABOUT SEX! These should be two separate shows, one about a man who is accused of committing a violent felony and another about deceit and disrespect of a marriage partner. Perhaps both men are guilty of an excess of entitlement or power gone amok, but the media’s insistence on highlighting Schwarzenegger and Dominique Strauss-Kahn together implies an false continuum and dilutes the very serious and violent nature of rape.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       Unwanted groping would be on the same continuum, as is the attitude that women exist for men to use.  Certainly, having an affair isn’t the same as rape, but Schwarzenegger is accused of more than just an affair.

    • Gerald Fnord

      Employers can bring enormous power to bear on their employees; it’s not as bad as rape, but (as another has commented) it is on the same continuum of the use of power in the service of privilege.

    • Gerald Fnord

      Employers can bring enormous power to bear on their employees; it’s not as bad as rape, but (as another has commented) it is on the same continuum of the use of power in the service of privilege.

    • Max Stirner

      Rape is not about consensual sex, but it is sexual. We have an high enough an opinion of consensual, loving, sex (I certainly do) that we would like to think that they’re entirely different, but they’re not—think of how many people of both sexes have rape fantasies (in both rôles), think of how much S&M is very important to some people, and it’s imagery and tropes pervasive.

      Think about how for millennia a woman was not allowed to say “Yes,” giving excited men great incentive and excuse to misinterpret “No.”

      None of this justifies behaving in ways we now rightly consider barbarous—but neither should we be blinded by ideals of how sex should be to how it actually too-often has been and is.

      • jean

        Rape of a woman is painful and terribly degrading and frightening and much more along those lines.  Perhaps it is sexual for the man – but ask a raped woman if it is sexual to her.  Please consider what you are suggesting in your comments about rape fantasies and women not being allowed to say yes.  I hope you are not suggesting or believing that women secretly want to be raped.    

      • jean

        Rape of a woman is painful and terribly degrading and frightening and much more along those lines.  Perhaps it is sexual for the man – but ask a raped woman if it is sexual to her.  Please consider what you are suggesting in your comments about rape fantasies and women not being allowed to say yes.  I hope you are not suggesting or believing that women secretly want to be raped.    

    • Max Stirner

      Rape is not about consensual sex, but it is sexual. We have an high enough an opinion of consensual, loving, sex (I certainly do) that we would like to think that they’re entirely different, but they’re not—think of how many people of both sexes have rape fantasies (in both rôles), think of how much S&M is very important to some people, and it’s imagery and tropes pervasive.

      Think about how for millennia a woman was not allowed to say “Yes,” giving excited men great incentive and excuse to misinterpret “No.”

      None of this justifies behaving in ways we now rightly consider barbarous—but neither should we be blinded by ideals of how sex should be to how it actually too-often has been and is.

    • Max Stirner

      Rape is not about consensual sex, but it is sexual. We have an high enough an opinion of consensual, loving, sex (I certainly do) that we would like to think that they’re entirely different, but they’re not—think of how many people of both sexes have rape fantasies (in both rôles), think of how much S&M is very important to some people, and it’s imagery and tropes pervasive.

      Think about how for millennia a woman was not allowed to say “Yes,” giving excited men great incentive and excuse to misinterpret “No.”

      None of this justifies behaving in ways we now rightly consider barbarous—but neither should we be blinded by ideals of how sex should be to how it actually too-often has been and is.

    • Max Stirner

      Rape is not about consensual sex, but it is sexual. We have an high enough an opinion of consensual, loving, sex (I certainly do) that we would like to think that they’re entirely different, but they’re not—think of how many people of both sexes have rape fantasies (in both rôles), think of how much S&M is very important to some people, and it’s imagery and tropes pervasive.

      Think about how for millennia a woman was not allowed to say “Yes,” giving excited men great incentive and excuse to misinterpret “No.”

      None of this justifies behaving in ways we now rightly consider barbarous—but neither should we be blinded by ideals of how sex should be to how it actually too-often has been and is.

  • heidideidi

    Before you even begin this discussion, please
    note the vast difference between the behavior of these two men. Arnold
    had an affair; this is a consensual activity between two people.
    Strauss-Kahn is accused of rape. Rape is an act of violence, not a
    sexual activity between two people. Please do not blur the line just
    because two big names made it into the news. One is in a sex scandal the
    other is an act of violence.

    • Tina

      Do we know enough about the Schwarzenegger situation to know that it was consensual?  I’m truly asking; I don’t know what is known.

      That said, your point about rape is well made.

      • Ellen Dibble

        The realtor revealed to one of the networks that Schwarzenegger had bought the woman involved a posh house when she retired at age 50, apparently with pool and all, some millions of dollars maybe.  I forget.  I don’t know if the realtor kept it secret all this time.  Actually, I think it was a neighbor who told the networks, and she had that info from the realtor.  So probably her network of friends knew as well.  And that kind of thing invites suspicion.  To some extent lots of “relationships” are not exactly free choice. Just, the relationship is the only choice, or the best choice.  

        • Roger Runnalls

          the house was purchased for $268,000.  hardly “some millions of dollars maybe.”  it’s in bakersfield, ca…farming community…hardly posh.

      • Ellen Dibble

        The realtor revealed to one of the networks that Schwarzenegger had bought the woman involved a posh house when she retired at age 50, apparently with pool and all, some millions of dollars maybe.  I forget.  I don’t know if the realtor kept it secret all this time.  Actually, I think it was a neighbor who told the networks, and she had that info from the realtor.  So probably her network of friends knew as well.  And that kind of thing invites suspicion.  To some extent lots of “relationships” are not exactly free choice. Just, the relationship is the only choice, or the best choice.  

  • NM

     Schwarzenegger did not have a simple affair, he had a kid and kept it in the shade for “10 YEARS”, that mother has been silent under “the terminator’s” power for all those years. A clear case of abuse.

  • Think again!

    NOTE TO TOM’S STAFF:
    Make sure to read the comments below about RAPE vs AFFAIRS!
    The lead-in to this story was disgraceful.

  • Yar

     Bee are not a valid comparison for male abuse of power,  The male, a drone has not stinger, mates only once, and dies soon thereafter.  The workers, all female kick most all the males out before winter.  The queen has one mating flight and lays eggs for the rest of her life.  Bees are societies run by females,  maybe we could learn something from them.  The queen is not in a position of power, she is an egg laying slave.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       Learn from the bees, eh?  Their “society” is the model for the Borg–soulless machines.  I’ll keep humanity.

      • Yar

        I was referring to the power vested in the female of the species.  In developing nations, giving men micro loans is less effective than giving women the same business development support.  

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

           What’s wrong with equality?  That’s the society that I’ll accept.

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

           What’s wrong with equality?  That’s the society that I’ll accept.

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

           What’s wrong with equality?  That’s the society that I’ll accept.

        • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

           What’s wrong with equality?  That’s the society that I’ll accept.

      • Yar

        I was referring to the power vested in the female of the species.  In developing nations, giving men micro loans is less effective than giving women the same business development support.  

      • Yar

        I was referring to the power vested in the female of the species.  In developing nations, giving men micro loans is less effective than giving women the same business development support.  

      • Yar

        I was referring to the power vested in the female of the species.  In developing nations, giving men micro loans is less effective than giving women the same business development support.  

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       Learn from the bees, eh?  Their “society” is the model for the Borg–soulless machines.  I’ll keep humanity.

  • Yar

     Bee are not a valid comparison for male abuse of power,  The male, a drone has not stinger, mates only once, and dies soon thereafter.  The workers, all female kick most all the males out before winter.  The queen has one mating flight and lays eggs for the rest of her life.  Bees are societies run by females,  maybe we could learn something from them.  The queen is not in a position of power, she is an egg laying slave.

  • Kathleenruth

    I am appalled that sexual assault is being labeled as “men behaving badly”. Rape shouldn’t be treated so lightly!!!

  • Kathleenruth

    I am appalled that sexual assault is being labeled as “men behaving badly”. Rape shouldn’t be treated so lightly!!!

  • Tonyguy

     Tom,
    I believe you can delete “powerful men” from your criteria.  These are headlines only because of their power and notoriety. I am sure there are many more who won’t receive publicity for their indulgence.  

    What you should be asking is “Why men seem to predisposed, hardwired or prolific philanderers?” Why even intelligent, accomplished men can not refrain or control their urges?

    Note (In the cases of consensual sex, many married men are able to indulge with married women.)

  • Tonyguy

     Tom,
    I believe you can delete “powerful men” from your criteria.  These are headlines only because of their power and notoriety. I am sure there are many more who won’t receive publicity for their indulgence.  

    What you should be asking is “Why men seem to predisposed, hardwired or prolific philanderers?” Why even intelligent, accomplished men can not refrain or control their urges?

    Note (In the cases of consensual sex, many married men are able to indulge with married women.)

  • Tonyguy

     Tom,
    I believe you can delete “powerful men” from your criteria.  These are headlines only because of their power and notoriety. I am sure there are many more who won’t receive publicity for their indulgence.  

    What you should be asking is “Why men seem to predisposed, hardwired or prolific philanderers?” Why even intelligent, accomplished men can not refrain or control their urges?

    Note (In the cases of consensual sex, many married men are able to indulge with married women.)

  • Ppwallis

    This incident reinforces Professor Robert Hare’s (University of British Columbia) proposition that CEOs should be screened for sociopathic behavior, as we do for police officers and teachers.  It appears more and more sociopaths are appearing in positions of corporate power.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       Great, hand more and more to the psychologists.  I suspect the validity of those tests.  It would be better to have clear statements of policy and follow those.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       Great, hand more and more to the psychologists.  I suspect the validity of those tests.  It would be better to have clear statements of policy and follow those.

  • Ppwallis

    This incident reinforces Professor Robert Hare’s (University of British Columbia) proposition that CEOs should be screened for sociopathic behavior, as we do for police officers and teachers.  It appears more and more sociopaths are appearing in positions of corporate power.

  • Ppwallis

    This incident reinforces Professor Robert Hare’s (University of British Columbia) proposition that CEOs should be screened for sociopathic behavior, as we do for police officers and teachers.  It appears more and more sociopaths are appearing in positions of corporate power.

  • Ifetayo

    Are you aware of the “Sex” Scandal in the UK, involving theMinister of the Environment, Chris Huhne, who ran for office on a “family values: ticket ?  Check it out – it has been all over the British press these last few days. 

  • Ifetayo

    Are you aware of the “Sex” Scandal in the UK, involving theMinister of the Environment, Chris Huhne, who ran for office on a “family values: ticket ?  Check it out – it has been all over the British press these last few days. 

  • Ifetayo

    Are you aware of the “Sex” Scandal in the UK, involving theMinister of the Environment, Chris Huhne, who ran for office on a “family values: ticket ?  Check it out – it has been all over the British press these last few days. 

  • Michelle

    An affair and a sexual assault are not the same thing!  Sexual jousting?!  Attacking a maid in your hotel room is hardly “sexual jousting”.  A joust assumes a willingness to engage by both parties.

    Arnold has a clear history of inappropriate  sexual behavior with women and shame on his wife for defending him for all those years when other women came forward with accusations. 

    It’s a huge problem if “masculine virility” is contingent on subjugation and it is inexcusable.

  • Michelle

    An affair and a sexual assault are not the same thing!  Sexual jousting?!  Attacking a maid in your hotel room is hardly “sexual jousting”.  A joust assumes a willingness to engage by both parties.

    Arnold has a clear history of inappropriate  sexual behavior with women and shame on his wife for defending him for all those years when other women came forward with accusations. 

    It’s a huge problem if “masculine virility” is contingent on subjugation and it is inexcusable.

  • Michelle

    An affair and a sexual assault are not the same thing!  Sexual jousting?!  Attacking a maid in your hotel room is hardly “sexual jousting”.  A joust assumes a willingness to engage by both parties.

    Arnold has a clear history of inappropriate  sexual behavior with women and shame on his wife for defending him for all those years when other women came forward with accusations. 

    It’s a huge problem if “masculine virility” is contingent on subjugation and it is inexcusable.

  • Gerald Fnord

    Sounds like primate-band dominance behaviour to me.

    And what’s the point of power if it doesn’t let you do things denied other people? “Privilege” derives from “private law”.

  • Gerald Fnord

    Sounds like primate-band dominance behaviour to me.

    And what’s the point of power if it doesn’t let you do things denied other people? “Privilege” derives from “private law”.

  • Gerald Fnord

    Sounds like primate-band dominance behaviour to me.

    And what’s the point of power if it doesn’t let you do things denied other people? “Privilege” derives from “private law”.

  • Freeman

    Why do the American people continue to allow “public” benefits to be paid to those who violate civil and public laws. Should there not be a “penalty” paid to Arnold Schwarzenegger for the violation of public trust.
    Why is it that it is ALWAYS those that we “welcome to this country” to enjoy freedom; that are the ones that commit the greatest acts against OUR people ?? 

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       Inappropriate behavior is hardly limited to immigrants or visitors.  Plenty of those who were born here do the same thing.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       Inappropriate behavior is hardly limited to immigrants or visitors.  Plenty of those who were born here do the same thing.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       Inappropriate behavior is hardly limited to immigrants or visitors.  Plenty of those who were born here do the same thing.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       Inappropriate behavior is hardly limited to immigrants or visitors.  Plenty of those who were born here do the same thing.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       Inappropriate behavior is hardly limited to immigrants or visitors.  Plenty of those who were born here do the same thing.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       Inappropriate behavior is hardly limited to immigrants or visitors.  Plenty of those who were born here do the same thing.

  • Freeman

    Why do the American people continue to allow “public” benefits to be paid to those who violate civil and public laws. Should there not be a “penalty” paid to Arnold Schwarzenegger for the violation of public trust.
    Why is it that it is ALWAYS those that we “welcome to this country” to enjoy freedom; that are the ones that commit the greatest acts against OUR people ?? 

  • Freeman

    Why do the American people continue to allow “public” benefits to be paid to those who violate civil and public laws. Should there not be a “penalty” paid to Arnold Schwarzenegger for the violation of public trust.
    Why is it that it is ALWAYS those that we “welcome to this country” to enjoy freedom; that are the ones that commit the greatest acts against OUR people ?? 

  • ebw343

    Schwartzenegger’s infidelity was immoral but legal and consentual.  He has been and is being punished appropriately (this must hurt: http://twitter.com/#!/pschwarzenegger )
     I should add that Maria Shriver’s putting “the children” (implying inclusion of the child born from the affair) ahead of all else is pure class.

    Strauss-Kahn is accused of rape. Immoral, illegal and a violent crime. Serious prison time is more than warranted if the accusations are proven true in a court of law.

  • ebw343

    Schwartzenegger’s infidelity was immoral but legal and consentual.  He has been and is being punished appropriately (this must hurt: http://twitter.com/#!/pschwarzenegger )
     I should add that Maria Shriver’s putting “the children” (implying inclusion of the child born from the affair) ahead of all else is pure class.

    Strauss-Kahn is accused of rape. Immoral, illegal and a violent crime. Serious prison time is more than warranted if the accusations are proven true in a court of law.

  • Calkol

    Please stop using the silly euphemisms “love child” and “born out of
    wedlock,” in reference to babies brought into the world through the
    deliberate actions of powerful men (& sometimes compliant women) indifferent to the results of their behavior. 

  • Calkol

    Please stop using the silly euphemisms “love child” and “born out of
    wedlock,” in reference to babies brought into the world through the
    deliberate actions of powerful men (& sometimes compliant women) indifferent to the results of their behavior. 

  • Calkol

    Please stop using the silly euphemisms “love child” and “born out of
    wedlock,” in reference to babies brought into the world through the
    deliberate actions of powerful men (& sometimes compliant women) indifferent to the results of their behavior. 

  • Calkol

    Please stop using the silly euphemisms “love child” and “born out of
    wedlock,” in reference to babies brought into the world through the
    deliberate actions of powerful men (& sometimes compliant women) indifferent to the results of their behavior. 

  • Ivenoahgenda

     Power to the peephole. Arnold, the IMF guy, professional athletes, Bill Clinton– they are all guilty of abusing their positions of power. Maybe it’s the Peter Principle…

  • Ivenoahgenda

     Power to the peephole. Arnold, the IMF guy, professional athletes, Bill Clinton– they are all guilty of abusing their positions of power. Maybe it’s the Peter Principle…

  • Ivenoahgenda

     Power to the peephole. Arnold, the IMF guy, professional athletes, Bill Clinton– they are all guilty of abusing their positions of power. Maybe it’s the Peter Principle…

  • Ivenoahgenda

     Power to the peephole. Arnold, the IMF guy, professional athletes, Bill Clinton– they are all guilty of abusing their positions of power. Maybe it’s the Peter Principle…

  • Ivenoahgenda

     Power to the peephole. Arnold, the IMF guy, professional athletes, Bill Clinton– they are all guilty of abusing their positions of power. Maybe it’s the Peter Principle…

  • Ivenoahgenda

     Power to the peephole. Arnold, the IMF guy, professional athletes, Bill Clinton– they are all guilty of abusing their positions of power. Maybe it’s the Peter Principle…

  • cleanupyouractsguys

    I’ll be boycotting all Schwartznegger movies, past and future, forever.  

  • cleanupyouractsguys

    I’ll be boycotting all Schwartznegger movies, past and future, forever.  

  • cleanupyouractsguys

    I’ll be boycotting all Schwartznegger movies, past and future, forever.  

  • cleanupyouractsguys

    I’ll be boycotting all Schwartznegger movies, past and future, forever.  

  • cleanupyouractsguys

    I’ll be boycotting all Schwartznegger movies, past and future, forever.  

  • cleanupyouractsguys

    I’ll be boycotting all Schwartznegger movies, past and future, forever.  

  • cleanupyouractsguys

    I’ll be boycotting all Schwartznegger movies, past and future, forever.  

  • jack

    Tom,

    Don’t forget to mention the sexual escapades/potential crimes of former Sen. John Ensign (R-NV), which led to his resignation last month.

  • jack

    Tom,

    Don’t forget to mention the sexual escapades/potential crimes of former Sen. John Ensign (R-NV), which led to his resignation last month.

    • Norm

      It was the first example he brought up.  Which is ridiculous in light of Bill Clinton’s sexcapades!

  • jack

    Tom,

    Don’t forget to mention the sexual escapades/potential crimes of former Sen. John Ensign (R-NV), which led to his resignation last month.

  • jack

    Tom,

    Don’t forget to mention the sexual escapades/potential crimes of former Sen. John Ensign (R-NV), which led to his resignation last month.

  • jack

    Tom,

    Don’t forget to mention the sexual escapades/potential crimes of former Sen. John Ensign (R-NV), which led to his resignation last month.

  • jack

    Tom,

    Don’t forget to mention the sexual escapades/potential crimes of former Sen. John Ensign (R-NV), which led to his resignation last month.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    It’s not just men against women.  Recall the incident of Larry Craig in a Minnesota restroom.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    It’s not just men against women.  Recall the incident of Larry Craig in a Minnesota restroom.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    It’s not just men against women.  Recall the incident of Larry Craig in a Minnesota restroom.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    It’s not just men against women.  Recall the incident of Larry Craig in a Minnesota restroom.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    It’s not just men against women.  Recall the incident of Larry Craig in a Minnesota restroom.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    It’s not just men against women.  Recall the incident of Larry Craig in a Minnesota restroom.

  • Ahuva

    Sex between men and women is the oldest thing there is.  It is not a crime.  Rape is a crime.  Lying to your wife and living with a mistress under your roof is disgusting. 

  • Ahuva

    Sex between men and women is the oldest thing there is.  It is not a crime.  Rape is a crime.  Lying to your wife and living with a mistress under your roof is disgusting. 

  • Ahuva

    Sex between men and women is the oldest thing there is.  It is not a crime.  Rape is a crime.  Lying to your wife and living with a mistress under your roof is disgusting. 

  • Ahuva

    Sex between men and women is the oldest thing there is.  It is not a crime.  Rape is a crime.  Lying to your wife and living with a mistress under your roof is disgusting. 

  • Ahuva

    Sex between men and women is the oldest thing there is.  It is not a crime.  Rape is a crime.  Lying to your wife and living with a mistress under your roof is disgusting. 

  • Jdsmith02115

     I think there quite a bit of presumption in Arnold’s case. It doesn’t take a lot of imagination to visualize his housekeeper being attracted to him and initiating that affair… and  his penis taking the path of least resistance. 

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       He’s not being accused of rape in the case of the maid.  He has been demonstrated to be a bad husband.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       He’s not being accused of rape in the case of the maid.  He has been demonstrated to be a bad husband.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       He’s not being accused of rape in the case of the maid.  He has been demonstrated to be a bad husband.

    • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

       He’s not being accused of rape in the case of the maid.  He has been demonstrated to be a bad husband.

  • Jdsmith02115

     I think there quite a bit of presumption in Arnold’s case. It doesn’t take a lot of imagination to visualize his housekeeper being attracted to him and initiating that affair… and  his penis taking the path of least resistance. 

  • Jdsmith02115

     I think there quite a bit of presumption in Arnold’s case. It doesn’t take a lot of imagination to visualize his housekeeper being attracted to him and initiating that affair… and  his penis taking the path of least resistance. 

  • Jdsmith02115

     I think there quite a bit of presumption in Arnold’s case. It doesn’t take a lot of imagination to visualize his housekeeper being attracted to him and initiating that affair… and  his penis taking the path of least resistance. 

  • Jdsmith02115

     I think there quite a bit of presumption in Arnold’s case. It doesn’t take a lot of imagination to visualize his housekeeper being attracted to him and initiating that affair… and  his penis taking the path of least resistance. 

  • Jdsmith02115

     I think there quite a bit of presumption in Arnold’s case. It doesn’t take a lot of imagination to visualize his housekeeper being attracted to him and initiating that affair… and  his penis taking the path of least resistance. 

  • Samar_malek

    Tom, I think the answer to the question: “how could such a man think he could get away with this?” is that he’s clearly done it before, and got away with it before. 

  • Samar_malek

    Tom, I think the answer to the question: “how could such a man think he could get away with this?” is that he’s clearly done it before, and got away with it before. 

  • Samar_malek

    Tom, I think the answer to the question: “how could such a man think he could get away with this?” is that he’s clearly done it before, and got away with it before. 

  • Samar_malek

    Tom, I think the answer to the question: “how could such a man think he could get away with this?” is that he’s clearly done it before, and got away with it before. 

  • Samar_malek

    Tom, I think the answer to the question: “how could such a man think he could get away with this?” is that he’s clearly done it before, and got away with it before. 

  • Fws1

     I don’t care about politician’s sex lives. I care about wars, tsunamis, floods, tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, nuclear power-plant radiation,  meltdowns, air pollution, the national debt, taxation, poverty, etc, etc and what we can do about them. All this focus on sex is a diversion from dealing with the real problems. Leave the sex of others private and address the real issues that affect most everyone.

  • Fws1

     I don’t care about politician’s sex lives. I care about wars, tsunamis, floods, tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, nuclear power-plant radiation,  meltdowns, air pollution, the national debt, taxation, poverty, etc, etc and what we can do about them. All this focus on sex is a diversion from dealing with the real problems. Leave the sex of others private and address the real issues that affect most everyone.

  • Fws1

     I don’t care about politician’s sex lives. I care about wars, tsunamis, floods, tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, nuclear power-plant radiation,  meltdowns, air pollution, the national debt, taxation, poverty, etc, etc and what we can do about them. All this focus on sex is a diversion from dealing with the real problems. Leave the sex of others private and address the real issues that affect most everyone.

  • Fws1

     I don’t care about politician’s sex lives. I care about wars, tsunamis, floods, tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, nuclear power-plant radiation,  meltdowns, air pollution, the national debt, taxation, poverty, etc, etc and what we can do about them. All this focus on sex is a diversion from dealing with the real problems. Leave the sex of others private and address the real issues that affect most everyone.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Viagra or male menopause?  Please.  Viagra is not a hormone, for one thing, and for another, do refrain from labelling all men as sexual predators.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Viagra or male menopause?  Please.  Viagra is not a hormone, for one thing, and for another, do refrain from labelling all men as sexual predators.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Viagra or male menopause?  Please.  Viagra is not a hormone, for one thing, and for another, do refrain from labelling all men as sexual predators.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Viagra or male menopause?  Please.  Viagra is not a hormone, for one thing, and for another, do refrain from labelling all men as sexual predators.

  • Jdsmith02115

     Men behaving like pigs?? I don’t think so. They are just behaving like men. A little thing called evolution has made men so. If monogamy were so natural to us, we’d have no problem being that way. As it stands, it takes quite a bit of societal approbation to keep men in line. Let us not forget that as many as 25% of children are born with the incorrect paternity attributed, suggesting a lot of female infidelity.

    • James

      Sounds like someone who has something to justify. Stop using evolution and biology as a scapegoat for bad behavior, it’s not only faulty and unprovable, but pathetic.

      I’m sorry, sir, it’s not my fault… My genes made me do it!

  • Jdsmith02115

     Men behaving like pigs?? I don’t think so. They are just behaving like men. A little thing called evolution has made men so. If monogamy were so natural to us, we’d have no problem being that way. As it stands, it takes quite a bit of societal approbation to keep men in line. Let us not forget that as many as 25% of children are born with the incorrect paternity attributed, suggesting a lot of female infidelity.

  • Jdsmith02115

     Men behaving like pigs?? I don’t think so. They are just behaving like men. A little thing called evolution has made men so. If monogamy were so natural to us, we’d have no problem being that way. As it stands, it takes quite a bit of societal approbation to keep men in line. Let us not forget that as many as 25% of children are born with the incorrect paternity attributed, suggesting a lot of female infidelity.

  • http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

    Viagra or male menopause?  Please.  Viagra is not a hormone, for one thing, and for another, do refrain from labelling all men as sexual predators.

  • Jdsmith02115

     Men behaving like pigs?? I don’t think so. They are just behaving like men. A little thing called evolution has made men so. If monogamy were so natural to us, we’d have no problem being that way. As it stands, it takes quite a bit of societal approbation to keep men in line. Let us not forget that as many as 25% of children are born with the incorrect paternity attributed, suggesting a lot of female infidelity.

  • Louise in Boston

    I think you should tie this back to the show you did a few weeks ago about the women filing a title 9 complaint at Yale.  One of the main issues there was the refusal to call to account students (not old men) who harassed other students REPEATEDLY.  These young men get the message in college that they can get away with harassing and even criminal behavior.  The Arnold and DSK background is the same.  REPEATED episodes of innappropriate, even criminal behavior that is dismissed….and the women that do speak out about their bad behavior absolutely get the worst of it.

  • Louise in Boston

    I think you should tie this back to the show you did a few weeks ago about the women filing a title 9 complaint at Yale.  One of the main issues there was the refusal to call to account students (not old men) who harassed other students REPEATEDLY.  These young men get the message in college that they can get away with harassing and even criminal behavior.  The Arnold and DSK background is the same.  REPEATED episodes of innappropriate, even criminal behavior that is dismissed….and the women that do speak out about their bad behavior absolutely get the worst of it.

  • Jean Gerber

    This behavior of treating women as objects for their use is the outcome of seeing and thinking of women as objects for their use.  The behavior won’t change until women are seen as being as equally intelligent and fully human as men.

  • Jean Gerber

    This behavior of treating women as objects for their use is the outcome of seeing and thinking of women as objects for their use.  The behavior won’t change until women are seen as being as equally intelligent and fully human as men.

  • Tennessee Mom

    Tom, enough with this notion that women will act the same.  WHEN women are 50% of every legislature–or 85% as is currently the case with men in the U.S.–THEN we can talk about how they’re behaving. Until then, we’re casting aspersions on women to excuse or lessen the responsibility of these adulterous men, as if “everyone, even women, do it.”  I bet that’s false.    

  • Tennessee Mom

    Tom, enough with this notion that women will act the same.  WHEN women are 50% of every legislature–or 85% as is currently the case with men in the U.S.–THEN we can talk about how they’re behaving. Until then, we’re casting aspersions on women to excuse or lessen the responsibility of these adulterous men, as if “everyone, even women, do it.”  I bet that’s false.    

  • Freeman

    Yes; women do have incredible power; wonder how much of the “affair” with Arnold Schwarzenegger was by “design”, on the part of the woman. No doupt she is living pretty good.. Great respect for women who can look at the situation in an unbiased manner. 

  • Freeman

    Yes; women do have incredible power; wonder how much of the “affair” with Arnold Schwarzenegger was by “design”, on the part of the woman. No doupt she is living pretty good.. Great respect for women who can look at the situation in an unbiased manner. 

  • Ellen Dibble

     I think you get the feeding frenzy of media in these cases because all of us are nonstop repressing all sorts of attractions.   So we get all appalled when certain people transgress.  It’s an opportunity to let off steam.  Why am I here behaving all this way, and they don’t?  Well, there are good reasons.  And let us count them.

  • Ellen Dibble

     I think you get the feeding frenzy of media in these cases because all of us are nonstop repressing all sorts of attractions.   So we get all appalled when certain people transgress.  It’s an opportunity to let off steam.  Why am I here behaving all this way, and they don’t?  Well, there are good reasons.  And let us count them.

  • jack

    We need a Feminists Movement Redux is this country.  That woman who had affairs with rich men when she was younger – what a pathetic loser.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1408098372 Mari McAvenia

      If a young woman seduces a married man for the “empowerment” she feels from the affair, well, shame on her. The innocent wives and children of the men she uses for her selfish, personal gain are wounded by it. Period.

      I only hope that there are not as many young women with Lolita complexes as there are older men who abuse power & wealth. If so, then marriage is indeed anathema and should be legally abolished, just like slavery was, ultimately. Naturally, divorce lawyers will never stand for this,though, because there’s just too much easy money to be made on the pain and suffering of the myriad – & now “socially normalized” – shattered families of America.

      • Michele

        What about the man’s right to Just Say No to the seduction?  Come on…if a young woman seduces a man shame on her?! If he is the married one, ostensibly committed one then why are you placing blame at the feet of a young woman?  Why are women always held to a higher standard?  We are supposed to ensure that men don’t take advantage of us (read: raped while trying to carry-out a job such as a maid in a hotel) AND that men don’t succumb to our seductive overtures.  Ridiculous.

        This is not an issue with marriage.  Perhaps marriage is an outmoded idea, but honoring your commitments and not lying to those most important to you is not.  Moreover, rape is also not an outgrowth of a dysfunctional marriage.

  • Peggygale

    I was waiting to go on air and was cut off.  People must stop using the term affair when they use the term affair to describe the Schwartzenegger and other abuse of power is wrong asnd minimises the ethical violation and the damage that is sometimes done to the woman with less power.  The woman may not realize until later that she was a victim of power abuse.  Saying it is an affair contributes to it continuing.  Everyone needs to call it what it is, especially journalists to educate the public.  An organization ;founded by two victims of power abuse is http://www.advocateweb.or  Please announce it to help those who are not getting help because no one recognises her injury. 

  • Marketmaster610

     Rape is about violence, NOT sex! Susan Brownmiller wrote her book at least 30 years ago and we still don’t understand that.  Please, please make the distinction

    • Ellen Dibble

      But sex is about power, at least from the perspective of a lot of men who, especially in this economic climate, are tragically without clout.  Sometimes we need to keep this in perspective.  I’m looking at the local news today.   Man turns himself five days after the K9 unit couldn’t find him.   His wife had been attacked by him with a knife in 2008 for which he went to jail for 2-1/2 years.  This time the wife says he “put his arm around her neck and choked her for about 10 seconds, then slammed her head into a wall and toilet tank.  Court documents indicate [he] also allegedly attacked her with a bat and threw her on the floor.”   All sorts of misuse of testosterone occur when men feel they do NOT have appropriate power.  It’s not just the powerful who feel entitled vis-a-vis sexuality.

      • Sofia

        Oh, Yes. Men are SOOO hormonal. At certain times of the day/night/year, they just can’t control their animal urges. Maybe we shouldn’t let them hold office. After all, can they be fully rational?   
        This, of course, is what was said about women taking leadership positions, as recently as the 1980s and 90s. 
         

    • Ellen Dibble

      But sex is about power, at least from the perspective of a lot of men who, especially in this economic climate, are tragically without clout.  Sometimes we need to keep this in perspective.  I’m looking at the local news today.   Man turns himself five days after the K9 unit couldn’t find him.   His wife had been attacked by him with a knife in 2008 for which he went to jail for 2-1/2 years.  This time the wife says he “put his arm around her neck and choked her for about 10 seconds, then slammed her head into a wall and toilet tank.  Court documents indicate [he] also allegedly attacked her with a bat and threw her on the floor.”   All sorts of misuse of testosterone occur when men feel they do NOT have appropriate power.  It’s not just the powerful who feel entitled vis-a-vis sexuality.

  • Anonymous

    No one is talking about the European man vs the American man.  There is usually a difference in the ‘abuse of power’ mentality, as well as the European justice system, including Britain, favoring the powerful man.  Further to this, European women are more likely to look the other way to keep their man and their lifestyle.  

    Then, there is the powerful man in a bad marriage or longterm relationship who finds it difficult to get out of it because of his public position.   Often their wives or partners are threatening them in some way.  

  • Sdlw11

    Oy vey.

  • Ellen

    These “powerful” men can be blackmailed! Anyone with knowledge of what they’ve done in the past can use it as leverage for blackmail.

    I continue to be amazed at the hubris and arrogance of such public figures who don’t think they’ll have to pay the piper.

  • Amendment One

    Shame on WBUR/On Point for presenting a show which did not clearly delineate the fact that rape is not about sex, it is about a need for power and it is about criminal behavior. Men who rape are not powerful, they are the complete opposite—it is their desperate need for power which caused them to use the sex act as a weapon. 

  • marys

    Hi Tom,  I’d love it if you could follow up this conversation with a more expansive look at human sexual behavior.  Check out Richard Nocera’s book, “Women Own All The Vaginas”, subtitled “Why Men Do What They Do”.  Mr. Nocera, I think, bravely examines many men’s compulsion to lie as a result of having to lie about their true sexual selves.  I suspect that many women could identify with this phenonenom as well.  Mr. Nocera attempts to bring the conversation beyond this “men are just pigs” charge and with infidelity monopolizing our nightly news stations, it is a conversation worth having again and again.
    Thanks, Tom…I love your show.   

  • Amendment One

    as an addendum to my first comment, today I was actually ashamed I am an On Point listener. I think WBUR needs to think carefully about going down this road.

  • Dave Finkelnburg

    It is far, far, far past time for Congress to pass legislation making it a Federal offense for any Federal employee (from the President on down!) to have a personal, physical relationship with a subordinate. If they want to have a relation ship–fine!  One of them just needs to find a different job first.

  • Dave Finkelnburg

    It is far, far, far past time for Congress to pass legislation making it a Federal offense for any Federal employee (from the President on down!) to have a personal, physical relationship with a subordinate. If they want to have a relation ship–fine!  One of them just needs to find a different job first.

  • Peggygale

    I would like to suggest a follow up program to your show today.  Very little was said about the injuries to women and men who are subjected to abuse of power   I am a clinical social worker and have treated many in their recovery from power abuse. Sometimes the person thinks they gave full consent and it is only later they realise their weaker position has been exploited.  Two people who suffered this founded a website that has been a life saver to many victims of power abuse.  It is http://www.advotaeweb.org.  I and many others support this website partly because we know the general public doesn’t have much of a clue about this problem and victims  sometimes have no place else to turn.  National expexts in this problem would be awailable to you for your program and, perhaps also the founders, present administrator of the site as well as some users of the site.

    Peggy Gale
    Wickford, RI
    401 487-7839

    Peggy Gale

    • Tina

      Peggy!  Thank you for the link to the website!  I was victim to a major fraud which had many elements of power abuse that it has taken me years to recognize.  Add to that, the fact that, when I sought help to shore up my own power (or powerlessness, really), I could find no one in the legal profession who would help me because of the power of the people I was finally aware had defrauded me.  Now, if that wasn’t bad enough, THIS is the REALLY TOUGH part:  one strategy of the fraud was for the defrauders to get me to use my own power against myself.  I know that sounds vague, but it’s best that I just keep to an abbreviated version; perhaps your experience will allow you to see what I mean; perhaps other people, who might be being victimized right now, will see a warning in what I just said.  Thanks very much!  By the way, my situation had absolutely nothing to do with sex. 

    • Tina

      Peggy!  Thank you for the link to the website!  I was victim to a major fraud which had many elements of power abuse that it has taken me years to recognize.  Add to that, the fact that, when I sought help to shore up my own power (or powerlessness, really), I could find no one in the legal profession who would help me because of the power of the people I was finally aware had defrauded me.  Now, if that wasn’t bad enough, THIS is the REALLY TOUGH part:  one strategy of the fraud was for the defrauders to get me to use my own power against myself.  I know that sounds vague, but it’s best that I just keep to an abbreviated version; perhaps your experience will allow you to see what I mean; perhaps other people, who might be being victimized right now, will see a warning in what I just said.  Thanks very much!  By the way, my situation had absolutely nothing to do with sex. 

    • Tina

      Peggy!  Thank you for the link to the website!  I was victim to a major fraud which had many elements of power abuse that it has taken me years to recognize.  Add to that, the fact that, when I sought help to shore up my own power (or powerlessness, really), I could find no one in the legal profession who would help me because of the power of the people I was finally aware had defrauded me.  Now, if that wasn’t bad enough, THIS is the REALLY TOUGH part:  one strategy of the fraud was for the defrauders to get me to use my own power against myself.  I know that sounds vague, but it’s best that I just keep to an abbreviated version; perhaps your experience will allow you to see what I mean; perhaps other people, who might be being victimized right now, will see a warning in what I just said.  Thanks very much!  By the way, my situation had absolutely nothing to do with sex. 

  • Peggygale

    I would like to suggest a follow up program to your show today.  Very little was said about the injuries to women and men who are subjected to abuse of power   I am a clinical social worker and have treated many in their recovery from power abuse. Sometimes the person thinks they gave full consent and it is only later they realise their weaker position has been exploited.  Two people who suffered this founded a website that has been a life saver to many victims of power abuse.  It is http://www.advotaeweb.org.  I and many others support this website partly because we know the general public doesn’t have much of a clue about this problem and victims  sometimes have no place else to turn.  National expexts in this problem would be awailable to you for your program and, perhaps also the founders, present administrator of the site as well as some users of the site.

    Peggy Gale
    Wickford, RI
    401 487-7839

    Peggy Gale

  • Mg1969

    Both maids are also women of color.

    • Anonymous

      Good point.  That makes them more vulnerable.  And it appears they are both fairly recent immigrants making them even more vulnerable.  Were they chosen for this reason?  Did the men think they would be less likely to complain?  I think I know the answer.  

    • Kurt

      Do you think that housekeeper needed her job? Do you think Arnold knew that? Do you think he “paid” her with a nice house to keep her mouth shut? Do you think she thought she’d better keep her mouth shut? And Khan has millions with which to fight any legal challeges the hotel maid might manage to raise. Obvious where the power lies.
       
      John Boehner, Eliot Spitzer, John Edwards, Newt Gingrich, etc., etc.
       

  • Mg1969

    Both maids are also women of color.

  • Mg1969

    Both maids are also women of color.

  • Ocooney

    SAG and AFTRA  UNION MEMBER  Arnold Schwarzenegger has put off acting in more movies, although he does have a TV cartoon going on.
    This hypocrite who constantly attacked Unions, including the Nurses Union and Teachers Union when he was Governator, seems to love the benefits and PAY scale that his membership in the Unions provides.
    Would Hypocrite be the same as liar, if not maybe this title also needs to be added?
    I bring this up because the BBC, NPR and other news entities never ask the obvious question. How someone who made his multi-millions in the Union could viciously attack members of other Unions who do not make even close to $$$ he benefited from in his union membership, and how that would not make him and others (such as AFTRA Union radio personalities that attack other unions) hypocrites.

  • Anonymous

    Men in power, Men of the average joe, does it matter? It’s their personal lives and they are entitled to live their lives the way they please. Granted, it isn’t ethically right, but then again, who are we to dictate how they live their lives? Arnold’s affairs didn’t effect my life, how could it of effected California or rather yours? He kept his personal life and professional life separate which is all we can ask for. Isn’t it enough to worry about our own lives?

    • Sofia

      Issue of trust. If family cannot trust the man, should anyone else? 

  • Diana

    My hat’s off to Anita Hill, who pursued a prominent man, Clarence Thomas, with allegations of sexual harassment. She was destroyed by her pursuit of justice and Thomas went on to become a Supreme Court Justice. But because of her, the workplace environment for women changed radically afterwards. I witnessed this change, as I have worked for more than 48 years. I view DSK and Arnold’s behavior as a matter of a person in power taking advantage of an underling believing there will be no consequences for this action.

    • Zing

      So…really…there hasn’t been much change?….or what?

    • Norm

      You mean like Bill Clinton?

  • Lucy

     Wow! – not one male voice during this show, except for Tom’s as the host. What does that say about the importance of these issues to our society? Unfortunately, sexual assault is still mostly perceived as a womens’ issue. 

    I’m not complaining. I think that it’s only recently that a man as powerful as Strauss Kahn could be held legally responsible for assault. His indictment is the result of a lot of hard work by feminists beginning in the 1970s to make sexual violence against women unacceptable. Kudos to the women and men who have supported their agenda, and to the Manhattan SVU who pursued this case. 

    I look forward to reviewing this issue in another couple of decades. Sexual assault against women is unacceptable. 

    • Metrosexual

      Hello! You didn’t learn much from the feminist’s “hard work” of yesteryear: how about women provoking in the way they dress, women used as sex-objects on bill boards and the open media, all these done by women voluntarily……..for money? I don’t even want to go into what women do subconsciously to challenge men’s virility. Yes, we men are the actual  victims and women are the victims of the victims. That’s the American society, that’s how the cookie crumbles! 
      Of course the American justice system is totally screwed up: you put away a guy ONLY on this illiterate woman’s accusations? And the American media is a total garbage when they hung the guy right away and in the same breath they sing the “everyone is innocent until proven guilty” song. What a disgusting constellation of American “values”……..

  • Lawlls

    Let’s not forget that middle class and poor men philander and commit sex crimes as well.  The fact that these are influential and wealthy men is just a red herring.  

  • Zing

    I can’t wait to see how many more come forth now that the truth is told.  I hope they see more justice than Bill Clinton’s victims.

  • Coleniuk

    oh come on  …   this is male behaviour, the fact that these men have power is because men have power.  The point may be that those in power should be more discreet, but it’s male behaviour.  It’s no surprise that men in power behave this way.  Not that it’s okay …

  • Bratmanx

    with all due respect to Mr.Strauss-Kahn’s victims, given the timing of the arrest and disclosures coming out now, I would like to float a conspiracy theory that he was set up by Wall street financiers etc.  As IMF chief he was not really a favorite of theirs and was, I believe, quite critical of them in their role leading up to 2008 crisis.

  • Jsmiller

    If he’s guilty, bust the guy and move on. Why are people more interseted in this than the institutions and their politician protectors that very nearly ruined the world economy, Goldman Sachs et.al. 

  • Jsmiller

    If he’s guilty, bust the guy and move on. Why are people more interseted in this than the institutions and their politician protectors that very nearly ruined the world economy, Goldman Sachs et.al. 

  • Donald Duprey

     I’m very disappointed with how Mr Ashbrook treated this subject. I sense that he is disgusted by the conduct of these men and that seeps through with his comments and his questions. Strauss would appear to be a criminal (if this is proven). Schwarzenager isn’t and mixing the two stories is a stretch. Again When one commentater said all men don’t behave this way Ashboork acknowledged this quickly and then returned to the negative.
    Schwartzenager’s relationship appears to have occurred 14 years ago. The person continued to work in his household. There is no indication the sexual relationship continued. This was a consensual relationship on the part of both parties. It isn’t Strauss’s case. Too much innuendo in this piece. Borders on tabloid journalism. 
    We live in a highly sexualized world. I beleive extra marital relationships are rampant– and it’s both men and women who are involved and who intiate it. Why is this hapening. has it always been the case and it’s just more reported or is there a different morality. That’s the pressing issue for me.Need to explore this issue but not in the manner you have taken it on. 
    Donald Duprey
    Toronto Cnada

  • Paradachs

    How is this different than Bill Clinton and yet we act as if we are shocked!  Perhaps none of the accusations against Clinton stood-and the women were mocked-but now it is someone from another nation and not our president-who was a great seducer.

    • Mill

      Bill Clinton is a Democrat, so it is obvious that he will get the soft end of our opprobrium and deserve some sympathy, whereas a Republican will be hit with a fire-storm. That’s how we roll. ;-)

  • Lj

    Oh give me a break! Now, rape is rape, and no matter how you slice it it’s criminal and disgusting, and should be severly punished.

    But a consentual affair is no one’s business except the cheaters and familys directly involved. Whether it’s Clinton, Schwarzenegger, or whoever, as long as their pathetic affairs didn’t guide their job performance, then it’s not the public’s business. These women are not victims, they’re willing participants. The public hasn’t been victimized unless these affairs guided the duties of the ones in “power”. I am in no way an advocate of illicit affairs. I hate infidelity with a passion. But it’s very hypocritical for so many people in the media, in office, and in the public, many of whom have their own closets full of skeletons, to claim that these politicians have betrayed their trust. When I vote for a candidate, I’m only voting for the candidate who I hope will enact policies that I consider to be fair and just. I’m not voting for someone to guide my morals or to teach my kids. We should teach our kids with our own examples, not with the antics of public figures. We know nothing about these individuals on a personal level, so why try to put them on a moral pedestal only to be outraged when they don’t live up to standards that many average people on the street don’t live up to? We should hold them to a higher standard in the performance of their duties since they have so much more influence than most of us. Those duties to us, however, do not involve their sex lives. I don’t support or approve of these affairs, but I also don’t care. The only people who need justice in these cases are the families of the cheaters themselves.

    Again, on Strauss-Kahn’s alleged rape, if he’s guilty then he should be punished to the fullest extent of the law as every rapist should. And the laws should be harsher.

  • Utsa88988

    I think there are two discussions here, that combined do not give fair discussion to either. There is the sexual violance of men towards women and there is infidelity with consensual adults. I think combining these topics diminishes the appalling wrong of rape. Infidelity is completely different. 
    To focus on infidelity only - I don’t think it is fair in a discussion of infidelity to discuss just men. Women make bad choices also. Women also act in ways that are not smart when it comes to having affairs. Perhaps men do this more, but women also get caught up and make decisions that lead to the end of their careers and marriage. We just need to be fair about this.
    I really don’t like the fact you combined these two topics.

  • Norm

    NPR wonders why we think they have a bias.   The fact that Bill Clinton was not the biggest example analyzed during this show is an egregious omission.  The fact that John Ensign was brought up before Bill Clinton verifies this assumption.

    • Kurt

      And what about Thomas “Randy” Jefferson and Sally Hemings? Cheesh. Clinton, Jefferson–it’s all history now, man. 

    • Mill

      Bill Clinton is one of us, so we can’t use his example. It’ll demoralize the members of the cult.

  • Deborah Nadler

    I think this whole issue boils down to a relatively uninspiring and hardly novel idea that men in power think that they can do whatever they want- and that extends to rape. They are surrounded by yes-men (and women) who tell them they are gods. They are politicians so the have built their career on lying, and everyone knows that people don’t like to vote for politicians who aren’t married. The sham of a marriage is instilled for the votes, the standard wishy-washy one-liners are delivered, and now we have a  power-hungry, corrupt and vicious liar in power. 

    • Mill

       Like “Slick Willy” Clinton? I agree.

  • Gary Schoener

    Not a new story, unfortunately, in the anals of “civilization.”  Abuse by professionals is a related topic — people might want to go to Advocateweb at http://www.advocateweb.org to examine this type of abuse. 

  • SLF2002

    One of the commentators talked about how these men never fully apologize but lean on saying they  were “caught up in the hype” or the power, but here we go talking about this being a phenomenon or symptom of power relationships. It’s so ridiculous. Men everywhere cheat (as do many women). It’s our basic biological impreitive, and a good proportion of the population at large cheats on spouses or partners, so we’d expect that some substantial portion of politicians and public figured would cheat too. We are so blind to the fact that we’ve constructed the idea of monogamy as the norm, when in fact it is far from it, that we are barraged with these ridiculous “why do men cheat?” news reports and exposees.It also seems incredibly demeaning to women to imply that every case of a “powerful” male ” having an affair with a staffer or colleague must’ve involved a women feeling pressured by the power structure or being persuaded by the allure of power somehow against their wills as if entranced.

  • Gaiuscassius

    You did it again On Point. Had a conversation on gender and power and had no male guests to present potentially a different point of view. Why is that? This is an ongoing frustration for me. What is your agenda in these kinds of conversations.

ONPOINT
TODAY
Jul 24, 2014
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The cold hard facts about juvenile prisons. And the case for shutting them all down. Plus: former Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton is with us.

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We’ll look at the new science of what plants feel, smell, see – and remember.

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